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The Top 5 Keto Myths with Dr. Jockers | Podcast #184  

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Ketogenic Diet, also known as Keto Diet, is a popular diet among those who want to lose weight, but is it just about that? Listen to Dr. J and Dr. David Jockers as they talk about the top five myths about Ketogenic diet. Also, find out the physical and neurological benefits you can get from this known diet.


Stay tuned for more facts!

Ketogenic

Dr. David Jockers

In this episode, we cover:

01:40   It’s a Weight Loss Diet

06:17   An All Meat Diet Only

16:17   A Diet Bad for Microbiome

24:22   Not Good for Thyroid and Adrenal Health

29:37   A Diet Suited Long-Term

63:00   Treatment Issues for the Immune System

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Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey, there! It’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani. I have an amazing guest on today’s show, Dr. David Jockers. David’s a phenomenal clinician, functional medicine doc, Chiro and good friend. David, welcome to the show, man. Really excited to have you on. I know you have your Keto Edge Summit going live really soon, and I want to make sure everyone knows about that. If you’re listening to this now, we’re gonna put a link below on screen. We’ll put like a little card as well link, where you can click in and you can get over and subscribe to that summit, where you can get access to ton of great speakers. I was able to speak on that summit, too, and drop some good information. So, David, welcome to the show! How are you doing?

Dr. David Jockers: Awesome, Dr. J. Great to be on with you. Always honored to be on your show. It’s one of the— one of my top subscriptions on iTunes. I listen to you guys, you and Evan, all the time. So, great to uh— Great to make a little cameo on here.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Thanks, doc. I appreciate it. And again, the— the Ketogenic Diet is one of the fastest trending types of diet. And, the reason why I like the Ketogenic diet, i— it— one of the big things, it shifts your metabolic machinery around, from being a sugar-burner to being a fat-burner. I love that because fat is like clean fuel. Sugar kind of burns like dirty diesel fuel. Fat…

Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …burns clean, and has many metabolic neurological advantages. I know we talked pre-show we wanted to go over the top five benefits, or the top five myths of a Ketogenic Diet, and we wanted to spell them one by one. And I just want to let any listener know here, this is just the tip of the iceberg on my little iceberg picture back here.

Dr. David Jockers: [laughs]

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: This is the tip of the Ketogenic iceberg. So, anyone listening, if you resonate at all with this info, click down below and make sure you subscribe to Dr. Jockers’ Summit. Great info here. David, what’s your number one Ketogenic Diet myth?

Dr. David Jockers: Yeah. You know, I’ve been uh— teaching and writing about Ketogenic Diet for a long time and applying it myself. And these are the common myths that I come across. When people hear about Keto, and number one is really that it’s a weight loss diet. This is typically, how most people get started with the Ketogenic diet. It’s that they— they hear about it. They— Maybe, they saw a testimonial, or something along those lines. I hear about it being a great weight loss diet and it certainly is. In fact, I think it’s the best diet out there for— you know— for weight loss if you’re gonna—  if that’s your goal. However, Dr. J, I have never tried to lose weight my entire life. I’ve always been underweight. And so, uh— you know— For me, I— I apply Ketogenic lifestyle and uhm— you know— not trying to lose weight. I’m actually just trying to maintain muscle mass. And the cool thing about it is, when your body— when you have Ketones elevating your bloodstream, it actually preserves your blood Leucine levels. And, Leucine has this anabolic effect where it helps your body preserve lean body tissues. So, we’re setting this message to the genome, saying, “Hey. Preserve lean body tissue and just burn fat for fuel. And even though I’m really, really thin. I’m typically like seven or eight percent body fat, uhm— I still have enough body fat to last me— I mean, I could go weeks without food, and I would still have enough body fat to actually preserve and— and uh— to produce Ketones and utilize energy. And so uhm— you know— It’s really not just for weight loss. Although it definitely is tool that can be used for weight loss. Really a great tool for enhanced brain function, performance, memory, reducing inflammation throughout the body. I mean, there’s so many different things, so many different benefits that we can get from a Ketogenic lifestyle and spending time, right? Having this metabolic flexibility where we spend time— not maybe all the time but spending time uh— throughout our life in Ketosis.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. Love it. So, the Ketogenic diet is not just a lifestyle, or I should say, not just a weight loss diet; lots of other neurological benefits. Awesome. Now, just kind of like looking at the weight loss, like weight loss can be a big one because INsulin resistance is a major cause of weight gain…

Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …so a lot of people that are over secreting Insulin, that gets at the excess carbohydrate— you know— taps out the muscle, taps out the liver, and then it goes into the fat. So, you have it on one side where it can help improve fat, but it’s not just a fat loss weight loss diet. You n—

Dr. David Jockers: That’s right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …the benefits. So, [clears throat] what’s the..

Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …first cognitive benefit, the thing that people aren’t aware off uh— with the Ketogenic diet?

Dr. David Jockers: Yeah. So, wit— with our brain— Basically, our brain could run off of somewhere between 50 to, some people say, up to two-thirds of— of energy production can be through Ketones. So, most people, and I know, and Dr. J, you and I learned when we were going through school that the brain depended upon glucose. But now, we realize that actually we can— we can create a lot of neurological energy through Ketones or breaking don Ketones. And so, when we start to transition our metabolism, and become Keto adapted, it significantly downregulates inflammation. So, it shuts down the Neuro Inflammasome, this genetic pathway that amfi— amplifies inflammation throughout the brain. So, when we do that, that reduces our risk, obviously, of neurodegenerative conditions, like Alzheimer’s, Dementia, Parkinson’s. But also, for— for younger people that— you know— that would be developing those diseases over a 30 to 40 or a 50-year period, you know, we’re not necessarily concerned. Like, I’m 36. I’m not thinking Alzheimer’s now, but I’m thinking about, “Hey. I want to get up and I want to be the best father/husband. I want to be the best doctor. I want to think sharply and quickly, uhm— and be able  to perform at my peak.” And that’s really what, when I’m burning Ketones, when Ketones are my primary fuel, that’s how I feel. I feel awesome. I feel like I’m performing at my highest level. My energy levels are amazing. You know, it’s also great for skin. Reduces inflammation uh— throughout the whole body, so— so, reduces pain, reduces inflammation of the skin. But, just in general, you’ll notice just kind of this cle— this very clear feeling in your mind, where you’re able to come up with thoughts and ideas, and you’re able to be more creative, and you’ve got, basically, better cognitive processing speed. So, you’re able to think sharply and quickly. It’s a— It’s a preferred state for your brain to be at.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it, totally. I know Dr. Veatch over at Harvard has found that many people with— with neurological issues— There are certain parts of the brain that become resistant to using Glucose for fuel, but those parts of the brain can tap into Ketones for fuel. So, that’s like uh— a different fuel source…

Dr. David Jockers: Yep.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …which is great. And again, your brain only needs about 20 grams of Glucose a day. It’s not a lot. I mean, if you’re eating, you know, some Broccoli and some veggies and that kind of non-starchy veggie. You can get enough just from that.

Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Now, that kind of leads us into the next myth here. Is the Ketogenic diet all meat? And again, I…

Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …see…

Dr. David Jockers: [clears throat]

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …within my plate with how I eat.

Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’m kind of a Paleo Cyclical Ketogenic person. But I eat a lot of times more vegetables than I see other Vegans eat. So, let’s hit that.

Dr. David Jockers: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And so, there’s a lot of different versions of the Ketogenic diet, and so a lot of people don’t realize this but, you know, there’s a lot of different Keto Influencers out there online, on YouTube and whatnot. And people have different uh— you know, different versions of it. And so, there are people that promote a very, very strong meat-based Ketogenic approach. However, the Ketogenic Diet does not need to be like that. In fact, it’s not really how I recommend it, and in functional medicine, we don’t recommend that. We recommend really a micronutrient-rich Ketogenic Diet and lifestyle, and uh— And, basically, that looks like a lot of vegetables, and so, you’ve got all this non-starchy vegetables, cruciferous vegetables, Broccoli, Cauliflower, Kale, Collard greens. These are all very, very low-carb, high fiber, high micronutrients. You got things like sea vegetables, Avocados, Olives, which are really good healthy full-fat foods that are also rich in micronutrients, rich in prebiotic fibers. And so, you’ve got a ton of vegetables. In fact, you know, when I’m working with Cancer patients, I actually have a whole program that’s built around a plant-based Ketogenic Diet. So, it’s a plant-based Ketogenic approach, where we have very little animal products in there. And so, why? Because, we’re trying to really control Protein intake. So, not to say the animal Protein is bad. I’m— I’m a fan of— I know Dr. J, you’re a fan of it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. David Jockers: We consume meat. I pretty much consume a serving of meat everyday, pretty much, unless I’m fasting. Uhm— However, we just make sure that— you know— really want to focus on micronutrient so that’s not a meat only diet or a meat-based diet. Meat really is gonna be more like 20 to, maybe, 30% uhm— of your daily food intake when you’re on kind of a— a normalized Ketogenic diet. Uh— Obviously, if you’re really, really active, okay. If you’re doing a lot of resistance training, things like that, you might be able to handle a little bit higher levels of Protein, but uhm— typically, roughly around 30%. If you’re more sedentary, you’re looking at more like 15 to maybe up to 20% of your calories coming from Protein. And, you know, most meat is real dense in Proteins so when we do do meat, we— we like higher fat— higher fatty cuts, grass-fed uh— pasture-raised, right? Getting it all raised correctly. So, we have the right fatty acid ratios and  uh— that the animals were raised and— and treated properly. But, the baseline there is, we’re looking at a micronutrient-rich diet, which includes healthy animal products because they are rich in micronutrients. It also includes a lot of vegetables and plant-based foods.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent. I think a lot of vegetarians are Vegans. They forget that a lot of the animal meat gets its nutrient density from concentrating plant matter.

Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, that’s the benefit that you get when you eat animals if they’re pasture-raised and they’re raised properly, you get this concentration, this bioaccumulation of plant nutrition. And then I— I’ve read in places where one pound of grass-fed meat is six to eight pounds of a plant matter.

Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So that’s one the great benefits that we have. And then also the benefit of eating good quality meats is we don’t have this high Carbohydrate to pres— Protein ratio. If you look at most vegetarian Proteins in nature— right— outside of uh— a Protein powder or outside of like a soy Protein that’s concentrated, it’s about two-thirds to three quarters starch to about one-third to one quarter Protein, and you get a lot of Carbs per Protein. So, like rice and beans, for instance, you get about 80 grams of Carbohydrates for about 20-25 grams of Protein. So, it’s gonna be really tough to be Vegetarian or Vegan and be plant-based at the same time. So, how are you doing? And, I imagine you’re using…

Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …maybe some— some Pea Protein or some Concentrated Protein Powders and adding Coconut, MCT Oil, Fat, Avocado Oil. What does that look like?

Dr. David Jockers: Yeah. So, plant-based Ketogenic Diet, I use that with my Cancer patients because really— so, it— On a normal Ketogenic Diet, you’re looking at somewhere around 0.8 to 1.2 grams of Protein per kilogram of body weight. And, if you’re really active, you’re doing a lot of strength training trying to build lean body tissue might be able to go up to like 1.5 to 1.6 grams per kilogram. Whereas, when somebody has Cancer, uhm— we really want to reduce that. One big reason is because excess Protein is gonna stimulate the MTOR genetic pathway, which…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right

Dr. David Jockers: …emulates cell reproduction. So, we’re looking at like 0.5 grams per kilograms. So, for example, so I’m about 160 pounds, which is roughly 72-73 kilograms. So if I were to take half of that, half the kilograms, in Protein, it’s like 36 grams of Protein a day. And so, if I were to break that into, let’s say, two feeding periods. It’s roughly 15 to 20 grams of Protein per feeding period. Okay. And so, we could do that, obviously, with uhm— obviously with things like seeds, Hemp seeds, stuff like that. We could also do it with Protein powders. Right? And, on the plant-based Ketogenic Diet, I actually do recommend like Collagen Protein.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. David Jockers: So, it’s not a Vegan Diet. We actually recommend Glycine-rich uh— you know— basically, Amino acids, like uh— like a Collagen Protein or Bone Broth Protein, or something along those lines uh— can be really, really healthy. And, I actually don’t ris— I don’t say, “Hey. You can’t eat meat on this plan. It’s more so just watching how much, because in one ounce of chicken, you have something like seven or eight grams of Protein. So, if you’re trying to hold yourself to 20 grams of Protein in a meal. That’s like two and a half ounces. Most people are used to eating four to six, sometimes eight ounces of— of meat in one meal. Okay. And so, it’s very easy to get that Protein up 50-60 grams, which is gonna stimulate that MTOR pathway. And, again, individuals of Cancer— [stutters] We’re not able to test for this yet, but we hypothesized that uh— I mean, I— I just pretty much lump everybody with Cancer, with the fast growing cancer, into this— this model of— Hey— fat— a hyperactive MTOR Genetic pathway. And uhm— And so, we want to reduce that Protein as well as the Carbohydrate and make it up with a lot of healthy fats, Avocados, Olives, Olive Oil, Coconuts. Uhm— We do recommend grass-fed butter on there because of the Conjugated Linoleic Acid, the fat-soluble nutrients, Vitamin A, Vitamin E. Uh— You got Choline in there, all kinds of powerful nutrients for the body. So, it’s not a Vegan approach. It’s a— But it is more plant-based, because we’re not doing high amounts of— of meat in that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s great. Excellent. Yeah. Good rule of thumb that I use with my patients is, depending on where you’re at, typically two to three times more fat than Protein. So, I’m—

Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’m 210 pounds, right? So, I may consume on the Protein side if I’m lifting weights, maybe, you know, half— half uhm— to three quarters of a gram per pound of body weight. So, that may look like, for me, a hundred and twenty, 120 or so, uhm— grams of Protein, maybe up to 150. And then, I would then double that to triple that for my fat…

Dr. David Jockers: Uhmhm—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …so, three— 250 to 300…

Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …grams. And like, I start my day with just pure fat and some…

Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …Collagen peptides with my coffee. [crosstalk] So, I try to really jumpstart my day.

Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh— What’s your take on that kind of ratio? Does that kind of match your— your Math a little bit there too?

Dr. David Jockers: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think that works great because you got to remember you got nine grams of calories per gram of— I’m sorry you got nine grams of calories per— nine calories per gram of fat.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes, that’s correct.

Dr. David Jockers: So, basically, yeah. So, you kno— you want to get roughly 60 to 80 percent of your calories from these fat sources to be in…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. David Jockers: …Ketosis. The mo— Again, the more active you are, the more your bodies gonna be able to handle a little bit higher amount of…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. David Jockers: …Carbohydrate and Protein. So, like, for me, I can handle a little bit more Protein, particularly on training days so I’m roughly in that 80 to 100 gram range, right, on— on training days…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Correct.

Dr. David Jockers: …but, obvio— I fast one day a week, right? And so, of course, you know, when I’m fasting, that’s my Protein Restriction Day. And I think this is really good rule of thumb, unless somebody’s dealing with, you know, s— yeah, severe health issues, and they— they really struggle with fasting, where you’re actually able to create some variation in your diet. You might have a Feasting Day, where uh— you may over consume a little bit of Protein and Carbs, and that’s— That can be kind of good for— for stimulating the Thyroid, [stutter] obviously we’ll get into that myth.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. David Jockers: And then also doing a little bit of like a Protein Restriction Day, where you d— where you dial it down lower. You’re body’s able to stimulate more autophagy in that case, and uhm— really be able to do more healing and repair. Even though we use Protein for healing and repair, actually, restricting the Protein stimulates more healing and repair when you do it for short periods of time.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s great. And I— I do notice that in the earlier studies, they know the first Ketogenic Diet, where they started coming up within the 1920’s for epilepsy. Mayo Clinic was behind a lot of this, and they…

Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …were finding it was really a great first-line therapy for epilepsy having seizures.

Dr. David Jockers: Oh, yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And— And they dropped the Protein down below, I think, eight percent.

Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And one are the side effects of going too low was they did— the kids in these studies also had very low IGF-1, which is a growth hormone precursor.

Dr. David Jockers: Yep.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: They— They actually had stunted height. So, one of the things that you can do is up that Protein to 15, even up to 25%. They found that they still…

Dr. David Jockers: Yep.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …had the same benefits but didn’t have the low IGF-1 and the low height stuff. But, again…

Dr. David Jockers: Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …if was— It was a Cancer issue, due reason that IGF-1 can also help decrease that Cancer cell growth, too.

Dr. David Jockers: Yeah. Exactly I mean, the faster the growth— the faster the Cancer growth, like the Metastatic Cancer, something that’s growing faster, you definitely want Protein Restriction. You want to do more fasting. You want to slow cell reproduction. That’s your whole goal there. Uhm— Whereas, you know, somebody like you or I, and probably most of the listeners on here, can certainly handle higher amounts of Protein…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. David Jockers: …roughly around 20% of their— their calorie intake.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent. Very good. Uhm— Myth number three. Is a Ketogenic Diet bad for the microbiome?

Dr. David Jockers: You know, there’s a lot of health influencers out there that say that. They say, you know, if you’re applying this Ketogenic approach, it’s gonna be really bad for the microbiome because we don’t have enough prebiotic fibers in there. But, if you’re doing it correctly, the way that I teach you, the way that you teach, Dr. J, you’re actually getting tons of prebiotic fibers. I mean, in one Avocado…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. David Jockers: …you’ve got as much…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. David Jockers: …fiber aas you have in oatmeal, right? And, people are eating oatmeal for breakfast, which is spiking their blood sugar, driving up Insulin levels…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.

Dr. David Jockers: …causing inflammation in their body, and they’re thinking, “Well, I’m getting the fiber, right,” which is kind of like— you know— the main reason why people eat oatmeal. Uh—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.

Dr. David Jockers: …from a nutrition perspective, because this is really not much nutrients in it to begin with. Whereas Avocados got twice— twice as much. It got as much as two cups, or two— two bowls of oatmeal. So, getting Avocados into your diet, you’re gonna get tons of prebiotic fibers. Olives are another really good source. Dark green leafy vegetables, you’ve got things like uh— radishes, you’ve got uhm— Artichoke is really good one. You’ve got all your cruciferous vegetables, Cauliflower, Broccoli— things like that. So, really, really good for the microbiome and there’s actually been studies where uhm— for example, uh— “Frontiers in Microbiology in 2017,” they took a group of individuals with Multiple Sclerosis, and they compared them to healthy adults. And they found that the individuals with Multiple Sclerosis, as we would expect in functional medicine, had a disordered microbiome. They had Dysbiosis. Thay had a whole lot of pathogenic uh— bacteria in their system. And so, when they put them on a Ketogenic Diet and they were checking them, measuring— they’re looking at their Stool Analysis over a period of time. They found that after six months it was completely normalized, right? That they actually had the ten individuals they had with MS, had very similar uh— gut bacteria make up as healthy adults who weren’t expressing an autoimmune disease in…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s right.

Dr. David Jockers: … tat Keto approach, right? And, they— they’ve actually been looking at this with Epilepsy too, ‘cause really, ultimately, we know that Ketogenic Diet’s been well studied in Epileptic kids to reduce this Neuro inflammasome and a pr— to create better balance between the Excitatory Neurotransmitter Glutamate and GABA. And these kids with epilepsy, they end up with Neural Excitation because they have poor conversion of Glutamate to GABA, as one of the reasons. And uh— So, Glutamate will excite the brain cells, right? GABA helps slow them down and balance them. And so, we want good balance there so we’re able to think sharply and quickly. Okay. But also, we’re able to calm our self. We’re not— We don’t have anxiety. We don’t have seizures, right? Things like that. And so, uhm— these individuals with epilepsy, we know that that’s the case, but they hadn’t looked at their gut. And so, just recently, we started doing studies, looking in detail at epileptic kids’ guts. And they found that— you know, they’re really high, and things like Proteobacteria, uh— like Vibrio, and Salmonella, and stuff like that. And following a Ketogenic approach that they’re able to normalize that good bacteria as well, and see significant changes there. So, really cool stuff as far as what happens when you have a Dysbiosis and you start following a Ketogenic approach, it should improve. Right? Should— You should get improvements over time.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, a lot of Dysbiotic bacteria is gonna happen from refined sugar consumption.

Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh— Inflammatory uhm— foods, like— like Gluten and Grains and— and bad trans fats. And of course, antibiotic use, which c— creates that rebound Yeast overgrowth. So, yeah, starting out some of those critters can help as well. And I even find a lot of patients uh— have other infections too, and they may have to have those infections kind of knocked out, whether it’s an…

Dr. David Jockers: Yes.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …H. pylori or— or another type of parasite. But, you made some good points. I mean, let’s say you’re keeping your— you know, Carbohydrates down to 30 net grams a day. Well, if you look at— Like, let’s say a serving of Broccoli, once you subtract the fiber. It’s down to three to four grams of Carbohydrates. I mean, you ju— you can do six to eight servings of non-starchy vegetable.

Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s a lot of fiber going into…

Dr. David Jockers: Oh, yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …the gut.

Dr. David Jockers: Oh, yeah. Absolutely. I mean, you’re gonna get a lot of prebiotic fiber, and, you know, touching base on— on using antimicrobials. I mean, really, ultimately, like in Cancer, one of the growing theories with how t— how, with in a sense, uh— uh— I shouldn’t say the word curing but…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. David Jockers: … helping our body overcome cancer is this Press-Pulse Theory, that uh— Dr. Thomas Seyfried, who I interviewed in the Keto Edge Summit— He has really pioneered this idea, as well as Dr. Dominic D’Agostino, down at University…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm—

Dr. David Jockers: …of South Florida doing a lot of research. And I also interviewed him. He talks a lot about this Press-Pulse Theory of Cancer, where, basically, we’re gonna press it metabolically. Right? So, meaning that we’re gonna restrict the Glucose consumption. We’re gonna restrict the— the main metabolic fuel to Cancer cells. And then, we can pulse it with an oxidative therapy. And that oxidative therapy could be in the conventional model, Chemotherapy Radiation, and more of a— a natural holistic model could be things like Hyperbaric Oxygen, IV Vitamin C, IV Ozone— stuff like that. So, I look at, when I’m thinking about like gut infections, I’m thinking something similar. I’m like, “Hey. If we can press these, you know— These uh— parasites, Candida — things like that— If we can press them metabolically by taking away what their preferred fuel sources are, and then we pulse them with really strong herbs, antimicrobials, Oregano, Garlic, Berberine, right— different compounds like that— Wormwood.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly.

Dr. David Jockers: Right? Now, they’re weakened because they’re pressed. They’re— They’re metabolically stressed, and that we’re able to get in there with food. You know, they’re consuming these uh— these herbs and uh— obviously, they’re not able to really— They’re weak already so, they’re susceptible. So, they’re gonna go down in— in flames.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and a lot of these chemicals, a lot of these uh— infections, they actually create a lot of cravings for a lot of the….

Dr. David Jockers: Yes.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …refined sugar. Again, it’s easy to process so…

Dr. David Jockers: Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …so, from a compliance standpoint, if we can knock a lot of these microbes down, it’s gonna improve your compliance being on that diet because often all these chemicals won’t be secreted. That’ll created those cravings too, right?

Dr. David Jockers: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yes. [crosstalk] And you’ll notice.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And then, also—

Dr. David Jockers: What’s the cool thing about a Keto approach too is, you know, after like the first two weeks, the first week or two, as you’re adapting into it, those— The hunger, the cravings really go down significantly. And, if you are noticing really strong cravings, oftentimes it’s a lot to do with what’s going on in your microbiome. So, yeah. I’m a huge fan of using like binders in those cases, right? Just try to kind of clear and sweep some of that stuff out. So, whether it’s Activated Charcoal, or Bentonite Clay, or like Humic Fulvic acids— things like that— to try to sweep stuff out of there faster. It can really help people that are— are struggling with the cravings.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. And if anyone’s listening to this right now and is really enjoying it, make sure you click the link below so you can get access to the Keto Edge Summit. This is gonna be just a sneak preview of all the great knowledge bombs that we dropped. Again, we’ll have the links below. Again, justinhealth.com/ketoedge— justinhealth.com/ketoedge to get access to this phenomenal summit. And then, Dr. David, what’s your experience with adding maybe a little bit of prebiotic fibers in? Maybe some uh— unripened banana flower, some Inulin or Chicory root, supplementally, is kind of uh— a prebiotic or some Fructooligosaccharides. Any experience there?

Dr. David Jockers: Yeah. I think— I think for most people, unless they’ve got SIBO or some sort of a FODMAP issue…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. David Jockers: They’re gonna respond well to small amounts of that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm—

Dr. David Jockers: Uhm— Some people, there’s a— you know— has a bell curve. There’s some people that respond really well to a higher doses of these sort of uhm— resistance starches…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm—

Dr. David Jockers: …whereas other people don’t, right?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. David Jockers: They get more of those. They start gaining more weight. They feel more sluggish, more gas bloating, right? Issues like that. So, I think it’s a— you know, it’s a case by case basis but…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.

Dr. David Jockers: I think as long as like— Hey! If you can eat— For example, if you can eat a bowl of Steamed Broccoli and not feel gassy and bloated and be cramping after that, okay, then you probably could do well on resistant starch.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. [crosstalk] And I think it’d be good if you can have some Sauerkraut and maybe some…

Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …low…

Dr. David Jockers: Exactly.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …Kombucha. You can handle that, you probably would do okay with that.

Dr. David Jockers: Yeah, exactly. That’s kind of a good uh— good task, right—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm—

Dr. David Jockers: …to— to Litmusi— Litmus Test to uh— see if you’re ready for some sort of resistant starch.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think that’s great. On to Myth Number Four.

Dr. David Jockers: Uhmhm—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Is the Ketogenic Diet bad for Thyroid and Adrenal health? Now, I’ll just chimed…

Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …in here. I’m coming out with my Thyroid Reset Summit, which will be this Fall, which you’ll be…

Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …a part of and I want you to speak…

Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …more in-depth on this, but just to put a couple things out there…

Dr. David Jockers: Yeah, absolutely.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …a lot of people have Insulin Resistance.

Dr. David Jockers: Mm—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And, Insulin Resistance is your body over-secreting Insulin to help get that Glucose into the cell. High amounts of Insulin can have major effects on Thyroid Hormone Activation or Conversion, T4 Inactive Thyroid Hormone to T3. Now, that being said, I think a majority of population fits into that, where if that Insulin Resistance is there, a Ketogenic Diet may be really helpful. I’ll— I’m— I’ll kind of give you the baton here.

Dr. David Jockers: Yeah. Yeah, totally. You know, I would say any sort of major dietary change is a mild stressor on the body, and so, if somebody’s stress-resistant or uhm— you know— ability to adapt to stress is really, really low— okay— then, they need to gently and gradually shift as they start making these nutrition changes. They need to kind of a slower change as opposed to— it’s kind of similar to— you know— if you— you’re sedentary, you haven’t exercised, and then you think, “Okay. I’m gonna go out and run a 5K.” You do that, you’re gonna be really, really sore and beat up. You’re gonna think exercise is the worst thing possible, or if you gradually move into a more active lifestyle, you’ll notice less pain, less soreness and you’ll just become a natural part of your lifestyle. So, really, you got to look at your ability to adapt to stress first. Right? I’m sure many listeners and, you know, many of the clients that come to us, Dr. J, you know, their ability to adapt to stress, number one, is— is not very good. So, we wouldn’t necessarily put somebody on a Ketogenic Diet that had very low stress uh— adaptation. So, that’s the first thing that I would say. Second thing is this, is that, really, inflammation— Okay. There’s no better diet and nutrition plan to reduce inflammation fast than a Ketogenic approach or even— or a fasting. Okay. That’s gonna reduce inflammation faster than anything in your body, but again, can be stressful for the system, right— to just all of the sudden go into something along those lines. But, by reducing inflammation— okay, that’s gonna help improve not only most— most people with Thyroid issues are dealing with autoimmune issues. And so, it’s gonna reduce the autoimmunity on the Thyroid. It’s gonna reduce uh— you know, Thyroid nodule production — things like that. It’s also gonna help improve liver function, as well as gut function. And, liver and the gut are responsible for the main aspect of converting Inactive T4 and Active T3. And also, if the cells are real inflamed, we’re not gonna get good expression of the T3 at the— at— in the— in the cell and in the— in the Mitochondria to begin with. So, reducing inflammation is the most important thing to helping improve Thyroid Hormone Expression and to reduce stress on the body. Okay? So, from the theoretical perspective, a Ketogenic Diet and fasting can be amazing for Thyroid and Adrenals. Now, the other element that we’ve got to look out is this element of feasts and famines. So, when we’re fasting, or if we’re doing a Ketogenic approach and we’re keeping our Insulin real low. Our body, it’s kind of a signal to our body and our genome that we’re in a time of famine. Okay? Because, typically, when our ancestors came across a lot of food, they would eat a lot of it, so they would feast and Insulin will go up. So, it would have kind of an Insulin spike— not quite the Insulin spike we get today when we eat a whole bag of Frito-Lays. But, nevertheless, they would get a rise in Insulin. And so, that told the body, “Okay. We’re in a period of feasting right now. And then, we never— you know— That— That might last for a day or two, and then, we might have in a whole week, where we barely got any food. And so, this kind of Feast and Famine cycling is— is what our genome is— is accustomed to. And, it’s— it’s actually healthy for priming it. And so, basically, when we’re in a time of famine for a long period of time, like following a Ketogenic lifestyle and being in Ketosis for a month, two months— you know, three months or longer, uh— o— just altogether, without cycling out of that, it can send a signal. For some individuals, they— they feel really good. Thyroid expression is great. For other individuals, their T3 might start to lower, like the Thyroid Hormone may start to lower. They may get lower amounts of Thyroid activity at the cell, and then genome, because the body’s saying, “Okay. We’re in a period of famine. We want to slow down metabolic rate. We want to slow down at the amount of energy and the amount of uhm— ts— the amount of energy that were basically breaking down. So, that may be signal. So, for many individuals that have kind of a— a Thyroid issue or possibly an adrenal issue coming in. Cycling Carbs and finding a good strategy for that…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. David Jockers: …where you have kind of this Ketogenic lifestyle as your foundation. But then, finding strategic times to cycle in a little bit of Carbs or Protein to get a little bit higher Insulin can set— tell the— the— our genetics, “Hey! We’re in a time of feasting now. We can reactivate Thyroid Hormone get that out and uh— bump that up for— for a period of time,” and finding kind of the right cycle for you.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally makes sense. Now, last question here. Is a Ketogenic Diet practical long-term? Can you follow it long-term?

Dr. David Jockers: That’s a great question. So, a lot of people think, “Well, wow! That’s such a— a major dietary uh— change, and it’s such a restriction from what we grew up with, which was grains in every meal, uhm— and high-carb foods.” But actually, what you find is that after about— after the adaptation process, which is roughly a week to two weeks, depending on the individual, uhm— you actually notice that your cravings go down significantly.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm—

Dr. David Jockers: If— Sometimes, for many people, they’re non-existent. You barely ever feel hungry. I have a lot of people writing me that are like, “You know what, I can eat more than one meal a day.” And so, for a lot of people, just the idea of even eating uh— That— That idea reduces. And so, they’re able to open up so much more time for everything else in their life. They’re still able to enjoy really good foods— kind of foods that Dr. J and I been talking about, but at the same time, they’re not driven by the need to eat every three to four to five hours. Right? Just constantly having to eat, constantly having to plan out meals. I know for myself, I eat one to two meals a day, uh— for the most part. I— I can’t remember the last time I ate breakfast. So, I’m eating once or twice a day. I’m not driven by food. I eat with my family, enjoy— you know— good time there. I might eat out. I might have a Protein shake after my workout. That’s about it. So, the— the actual time it takes for food preparation, for cleanup— things like that, is significantly reduced. I’m able to really stay focused, and uhm— you know, do the things I was put on the planet to do, rather than being driven by food. And so, that’s what most people experience as they get going with this. Actually, it’s a lot easier to follow a lot more sustainable than they’re actually originally thought.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it. Yeah. Basically, you— you’re switching the metabolic machinery instead of starting that campfire and running on kindling in paper and gasoline. We’re putting good healthy logs in the fire that allow that fire to— to burn longer and stronger.

Dr. David Jockers: Yeah. Absolutely. [crosstalk] I mean, that’s really what it’s about. Yep.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And then also, just to piggyback what you said before.

Dr. David Jockers: yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I know  when the Atkins Diet kind of got popularized in the 50’s and 70’s…

Dr. David Jockers: Uhmhm—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …but with Dr. Atkins. You know, there’s a lot of thought that all the benefit just came from cutting the Carbohydrate, which does help with a lot of the Insulin Sensitivity. But I think a lot of people in the Ketogenic Community, what they did was cutting out grains and cutting out some of these inflammatory foods made a huge difference. And now, we kind of have this like, Paleo Ketogenic Template, where we understand that— the nature of inflammatory foods. We understand maybe artificial sweeteners aren’t as good because— because the Carbohydrates aren’t there— they still may not be as good, or the refined vegetable oils, or the Soy Proteins and the Xenoestrogen. So, I think, we’ve taken the ketogenic diet and brought it to the next level looking at the micronutrients. Looking at the macronutrient quality…

Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …and then, also looking at the inflammatory nature of the food and not just lumping at all into this Carbohydrate Template.

Dr. David Jockers: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, really, ultimately, we want an anti-inflammatory diet. I just want to also uh— remind everybody too that, basically, when you’re on a Ketogenic lifestyle, your Insulin is gonna go down significantly. And the benefit of that is significant reduction inflammation and cell reproduction. Uhm— So, that’s amazing. However, the other thing is Insulin retains minerals. Okay? So, when Insulin goes down, we lose more hydration and more minerals. In fact, when you lose weight early on a Ketogenic Diet, typically, it’s water weight in— in the first, you know, week or so because your body’s just getting rid of this fluid and hy— and minerals. And one of the biggest mistakes I see people make is they’re not replacing the minerals and the hydration. So, if you’re gonna try this approach, I would highly recommend making sure you’re hydrating well, uhm— consuming a lot of trace mineral rich foods, a lot of the foods that we already talked about, fermented foods, Olives, Avocados, sea vegetable, uhm— wild-caught fish, wi— pasture-raised animal products, very rich in trace minerals. Use a good high-quality sea salts or like a Pink Himalayan Salts on your foods, and salt it well. And stay hydrated throughout the day. Really, really, hydrate your body well, because you need that extra water. And that’s really— you know one of the key ways to get healthy anyways. You just got to— got to pee your way to good health, right? So, consume a lot of that water and just flush— flush out toxins, and you’ll feel a lot better when you do that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. make sure you’re adding up pinch of good quality sea salts…

Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …to your water.

Dr. David Jockers: Uhmhm—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Five to seven servings of green veggies and one full…

Dr. David Jockers: Yep.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …Avocado a day should get you…

Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …that 4,700 milligrams of Potassium you need. Also, the Bone Broth, uhm— sip in that as well.

Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It can give you the extra Sodium and the electrolytes…

Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …’cause that’s one of the big things. If you’re having cramping or these issues, make sure you’re Potassium’s up…

Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …forty-seven hundred milligrams or higher. Magnesium, gram or 1,000 milligrams a day or higher. And then, make sure the water you’re drinking is also clean filter water, but also mineral-rich…

Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …or make sure…

Dr. David Jockers: Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …you add a pinch of sea salt.

Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Would you agree?

Dr. David Jockers: Oh, absolutely. And that’s huge, especially if you’re following this Ketogenic approach, and you’re noticing Fatigue. If you’re dealing with Fatigue, then I would highly consider maki— looking at your hydration. Also, if you’re dealing with lot of hunger and cravings as you’re going through it, really consider your hydration. Start really focusing on hydration. I’ve found, that about 75% of the people that I’ve worked with that noticed a lot of Fatigue uhm— and cravings as they’re following this Ketogenic approach, once we address the hydration and the minerals, they feel a lot better.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Huge. [crosstalk] That’s cool.

Dr. David Jockers: For some of those individuals, they may need like a little bit of Thyroid hormone— you know— or something along those lines.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. David Jockers: But, for many of them, it’s just a hydration and mineral issue.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. Last two things I’m gonna put out there. We hit our top five myths. So, this is bonus round. So, anyone that’s sticking…

Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …around here, you’re getting some extra gems. Number one, uhm— Ketoacidosis first ketosis. Mm— My take is, number one, Ketosis is, we’re talking nutritional Ketosis. We’re not talking nutr— Ketosis via starvation.

Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We’re talking Ketosis via adequate nutrition with keeping Carbohydrates down. That is a good thing. Ketone levels, maybe one to two milliMoles Ketoacidosis, ten and up on the milliMoles of Ketones. And number two, primarily happening in Type-I Diabetic patients without adequate levels of Insulin. Insulin drops.

Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: ‘Kay? Fuel can’t get into the cell. The body freaks out and overproduces Ketones to— to help compensate for the fuel source. What happens? That high level of Ketones is acidic, drops the pH, and that can put you into— into a coma via very low uhm— very low pH. Uh— Go ahead, I’ll let you give yours—

Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …your take on it.

Dr. David Jockers: Yeah. Basically, Ketoacidosis is only gonna happen in a Type-I Diabetic or a Type-II. It’s completely lost the ability to [crosstalk] produce Insulin.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. David Jockers: And, they, more or less, need to be neglecting their health. They need to be non-cognizant that they need to actually uh— take supplemental Insulin, taking in Insulin injection. And so, that’s really the only way, and it’s characterized by really super high blood sugar, like blood sugar 300 and above sometimes. Okay. And, really, really high Ketones, like you said, ten. Really, it’s more like 15-20 or above…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. David Jockers: …uhm— with the— with the— the Ketones. Whereas, with nutritional Ketosis, you’re blood sugar’s gonna be under 100. Sometimes, it’s gonna be like 60 or 70.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. David Jockers: Some people are even saying, s— you know, “At times, our blood sugar is in the 40’s and 50’s.” So, s— So, very very low blood sugar because your body’s very Insulin-sensitive. And then, your Ketones, rather than being in this 20 to 25 range, they’re gonna be roughly somewhere between 0.5 and maybe 3.0…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly.

Dr. David Jockers: … uh— depending on— unless, you’re fasting. ‘Kay. You’re only…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm—

Dr. David Jockers: …really, really gonna get up above 3.0 is kind of an extended fast.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think it’s really important because the conventional medical doctors out there, they have virtually zero training— and even RD’s—

Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …zero training in— in nutrition from optimal health. They’re very skilled…

Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …in nutrition for pathology. Like, you talk about Vitamin C— you know— we’re gonna talk about Vitamin C benefits, they’re gonna talk about Vitamin C in Scurvy. They’re gonna talk about, you know, Beriberi and B1 Deficiency. They’ll talk about if you go into Ketosis— benefits of Ketosis, they’re gonna basically, conflate that with Ketoacidosis. So, just be careful. You’re seeing your conventional medical doctor and you’re engaging in the benefits of a Ketogenic diet and Ketosis. They’re gonna probably conflate that, and that’s kind…

Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …of a Litmus Test to see if your doctor knows what they’re talking about.

Dr. David Jockers: Yeah, exactly. And I think just in general, doctors, as a whole, we’re kind of— we’re— we have this know it all mask because we’re high— high achievers.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm—

Dr. David Jockers: We’re high performers…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhm—

Dr. David Jockers: …so we just figured, if we didn’t learn about it in medical school, or if it hasn’t been like put…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Bingo.

Dr. David Jockers: …right in the face that it must not be good, or it must be some sort of a fad. And so, rather than just being humble, it takes a really humble individual to say, “You know what, that’s an intere— that’s interesting. I haven’t looked into it yet. Uhm— So, I really don’t know.” [laughs] And so, for a doctor to say, “I don’t know,” very rarely ever happens. So, they’re gonna, typically have a strong opinion because they’re trying to provide their patients certainty. However, their opinion may not be based on any sort of uh— real true knowledge. And if they were really looking through the scientific literature, and studying that on Ketosis, they’d actually be excited about utilizing those with their patients.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. And then, last thing I want to put out there. Want to get your take on it, too. As I see, a lot of patients, they switch from the Ketogenic Diet, or they switch from a Standard American Diet to a Lower Carb kind of Ketogenic Paleo Template. One of the biggest thing I see is, they tend to be eating a lot of Carbohydrate, which tends to be easier to digest and process. Now, they’re eating a lot more fat, a little bit more Protein, and they start feeling worse from the bloating or digestive standpoint.

Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: One of the things I find is that more Protein and more fat can be a little bit tough on the digestive system.

Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And, a lot of people, they— the— a Ketogenic Template can reveal the weak link in their digestive secretions regarding low stomach acid, low enzymes and some people need to up the bile salts, up the…

Dr. David Jockers: Yes.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …HCl, up the enzyme. And, if you move from the Ketogenic template, and you start noticing those symptoms, it doesn’t mean the diet is not good for you, or bad.

Dr. David Jockers: Right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s revealing a weak link in your digestive system. Go ahead, Dr. David.

Dr. David Jockers: I mean, it’s absolutely the truth, and to most people, because of stress. Stress is the antagonist to digestive juice production. And so, for…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. David Jockers: …our body to be able to break down food, particularly meat— you know, you take a look at meat, unless it’s like a really, really well-cooked like Chicken Soup or something like that…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm—

Dr. David Jockers: …you just take a Steak. That’s Steak— you’re gonna need a lot of stomach acid, digestive enzymes, bile, in order to really break that down and metabolize it well. And so, as we start to age and stress, in general, is gonna reduce our ability to produce the stomach acid we need, the bile, the pancreatic enzymes. And so, yeah. Absolutely. Supplementing with that, can be extremely helpful. I’ve seen that just be a lifesaver for so many different individuals. And doing different strategies like drinking Ginger tea throughout the day can be really helpful.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm—

Dr. David Jockers: Uuhm— What else? Doing like Lemon, putting fresh squeezed Lemon or Lemon Juice, or Apple Cider Vinegar on the meat, like before you actually eat it, starts…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep.

Dr. David Jockers: …pre-metabolizing it. Same— You can do it on the vegetables, too. Actually, it starts pre-metabolizing, breaking down the meat and the vegetables before it even gets into your body. So, it makes it easier in your digestive system. And really, ultimately, it’s all about— You know, we want to take stress off the digestive lining, ‘cause there’s only one cell wall — our— our intestinal lining. So, if we’re constantly putting food that’s not well digested up higher in the end, like in our stomach for example, into that intestinal lining, it’s like we’re just scarring it right up. We’re tearing that intestinal lining up. We’re gonna create leaky gut. We’re gonna get…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Bingo.

Dr. David Jockers: …more inflammation and have a lot more problems. So, yeah. Taking really, really good care of your digestive lining is— is very important. I know, you teach that. I teach that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm—

Dr. David Jockers: I’ve got lot of articles in my website all about that. And we— we do touch on that as well in the Keto Edge Summit. We really uh— We really focused in on helping people improve their digestion so they can follow this Ketogenic lifestyle and uh— and do it effectively.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Awesome. Love it. So, everyone listening, lots of knowledge bombs. Again, when you talk with two doctors like— like us, we’re providing clinical information, not theoretical stuff— actual information you can use to help improve your health and your life. And if you’re listening so far and you like this. This is the tip of the iceberg, right? Iceberg in the back.

Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: justinhealth.com/ketoedge. Again, we’ll put the link down below. If so you’re driving, you can’t get it you can click down below And again, support the summit. Get the information out there. Share it with any of your friends or family that have any inflammation or any health issue. They’re gonna benefit totally. And then also, feel free and check out drjockers.com. Dr. Jockers has got the best blog post out there. Amazing infographics. Again, even if you don’t want to read it, if you just check out the images in these blogs, you can learn so much.

Dr. David Jockers: Yeah. Thanks so much, man. That’s a— That’s a big thing we try do on my website. It’s make it as image rich as possible. I hate reading websites where it’s just narrative, you know. It’s like I tune out quickly. So, we really try to make it as image rich as possible; give people a really great reader experience. I appreciate you acknowledging that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You got it, Dr. Dave. Well, I appreciate everything and look forward to the summit going live in the next month. Everyone click down below. Subscribe.

Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Dr. David, it’s great chatting with you. We’ll talk real soon.

Dr. David Jockers: Absolutely. By the way, uhm— you definitely want to tune in. Day two (2) for Dr. J’s talk, where he really jives into Hypothyroidism and the Ketogenic Diet. We go a lot deeper than we did today.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, that’s great. Awesome. Very cool. Well, Thank you so much for that plug and we’ll talk soon Dr. David. Take care.

Dr. David Jockers: Alright. Take care.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Bye.


References:

Keto Edge Summit Sign up: https://justinhealth.com/ketoedge

“Press-Pulse Theory” for Cancer by Dr. Thomas Seyfried

Benefits of Ketogenic Diet by Dr. Dominic D’Agostino, University of South Florida

https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/microbiology

https://drjockers.com/

www.justinhealth.com

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