The Body Electric – EMF, Infrared Light and Energy Medicine | Podcast #307

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Hey guys! In this video, we have Dr. J's guest, Dr. Christine Schaffner – a neuropathic physician. Here, learn how to protect yourself against EMF, wifi, and cellular wave frequencies. In this summit, we review the benefits of grounding near and far-infrared frequencies. We also learn about HRV and techniques to help get your nervous system incoherent so you can heal and improve your health faster. 

Infrared therapy is now typical in medicine, dentistry, autoimmune diseases, and veterinary medicine, to name a few. This therapy is natural, safe and enables it to be offered as an alternative treatment for various health conditions like muscle pain, joint stiffness, and arthritis, to name a few. 

Infrared therapy's key benefits are cardiovascular health, pain and inflammation, muscular injuries, detoxification, and potential cancer cure. Moreover, watch the full podcast to know more about the summit, how to try this, and its full details.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

In this episode, we cover:

4:10      Heart, Brain, Sensory Neurons

9:12      Photobiomodulation

15:45    Wireless Technology, WiFi, EMF

20:59    Benefits of EMF Reader

22:28    Infrareds

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Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And we are live is Dr. J here in the house with Dr. Christine Schaffner, really excited to interview Dr. Christine today. You can find more about Dr. Christine at We'll put the link below for y'all. Dr. Christine, how you doing this morning. Nice to meet you.

Dr. Christine Schaffner: Oh, it's so nice to be here. Thank you so much for having me.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. So I know you have a summit coming up called the Body Electric 2.0 summit, where you talk about all things, from energy medicine, to sound medicine, to EMF to all kinds of sound vibration, all kinds of cool little things. We're going to dive into a couple of these aspects today. If anyone's really interested in this content out of the gates, we'll put the Body Electric 2.0 summit linked down below so you guys can get more access to that awesome information. Dr. Christine, how are we doing?

Dr. Christine Schaffner: We're good, we're good. And I just appreciate the opportunity to share this topic. I'm so passionate about this field of medicine. And you and I both treat really chronically ill complex patients and I love our functional medicine. I love our naturopathic medicine, I love the realm of what we call bio regulatory medicine. But I think we're still in this pioneering pioneering opportunity to really integrate more therapies and more approaches that utilize the understanding of our biophysical nature, and that we have this Body Electric. And this is the title of, you know, the late Dr. Becker's work. And he was ahead of his time, but knowing that, you know, again, we're beyond our biochemistry. So we obviously have hormones and cytokines and all all the ways that our body communicates and regulates. But we also have this electromagnetic nature. And I always start with the heart, because I think people can understand that. And we know that our heart has the strongest electromagnetic field in our body. And I had Dr. Roland McCrady, from heart math, they're doing amazing research on really how the heart informs the brain. And the heart is really the great orchestrator in this electromagnetic nature in our body. And even if you think about beyond the the field in our heart, we actually have a sensory nerites, about I think about 40,000 in our heart, and we have direct lines of communication from our heart to our brain. And so getting our heart in the state of what we will call coherence and sounds complicated, but it's really simple and how we can practice things like gratitude. And you know, the things that make us feel good actually have this really important biological effect to regulate our body. You have our electromagnetic nature of our heart, we know we have brain waves that are measured with EG so we know that medical science, conventional medicine understands the applications and the implications of biophysics to either diagnose and to also understand where we want a treatment. So also beyond that we have ultrasound right using sound waves with our eyes, using magnetic resonance. And so you know, when we think about that, too, so we have that understanding. And then I'm I have Dr. Beverly Rubik, who's a biophysicist, from UC Berkeley, I've just loved her work over the years. And she coined the term biofield. And she put that in PubMed in 1996 1994. So it's a medical term that was searchable, and that people could really research this understanding that we have this field of information and energy that surrounds our body that is comprised of low light emissions, and it's measurable. You know, I'm hoping, you know, in my lifetime, we have more and more things that we can use in the office to measure this field of energy. And it's not just this random field of energy that's kind of kind of this offshoot of all of the biophysical things that are happening in the body, but it's actually a field of information that also informs our body. So in order to really heal a chronic illness, and to heal our biochemistry, we have to look at this field of information and energy around us. And use tools and therapies that can help heal where there could be incoherence or dissonance or stagnation in our energy that can translate into physical symptoms. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So let's try to connect it to patients so they can get an application and how it actually improves their health. I find if we have all this information, but we can't really apply it, then it's not as useful. So out of the gates, you kind of talked about some of the coherence stuff and some of the heart I think you said, What 70% of the heart neurons that are actually they're actually like brain neurons or neurological tissue, not just heart muscle, is that correct?

Dr. Christine Schaffner: There's 40,000 sensory neurons in the heart so meaning that that we are our heart has a brain you know, and information and energy. information goes directly to key parts in our brain to that help us not only have more coherent brainwaves and more organized neurology but also helps to connect to what we call the limbic part of our brain. That is a lot of where our store trauma can happen are kind of automatic react. can happen in life. And so to make it really practical, and I love that, again, really simple practices of getting in the state of positive emotion can actually help to strengthen the rhythm of our heart. And that informs our brain and so on a gratitude practice, a lot of kind of self help gurus, you know, are like recommending this, you know, gratitude journal, and you know, the work of Joe dispenza. And I love Tony Robbins, and you know, all those wonderful people who really have these morning rituals, often or even evening rituals or bookend your day on, you know, having this, these, this gratitude practice can be not just a feel good energy, but it can really make your body heal.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So in regards to the kind of the execution of that, for myself, it's breathing, right and try to have some type of gratitude and focus on my breath, try to really activate a lot of the parasympathetic neurons by breathing through my nose versus breathing through my mouth, and then focusing on good breath and then all the gratitude, is it. Is it that simple? Or is there any more nuance to it so patients can, can execute it?

Dr. Christine Schaffner: Yeah, you know, I think for this piece, it's really that simple. There are measurable tools and more wearable devices are things that people are implementing, we want to look at what we call heart rate variability. And yes, it's a direct window into our parasympathetic nervous system. And the more variability we have, the more that our body can switch into parasympathetic mode. And it's kind of a marker of longevity and health. And so that's another tool that we can track on heart math, you can actually buy devices through heart math that track heart rate variability, and that can be biofeedback to see when you're in the states what it does heart rate variability, there's also the aura ring. There's also like, elite HRV, there-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You have a favorite one for you, that you use with patients are yourself?

Evan Brand: Yeah, you know, I've been using elite HRV. And then there's also the aura ring. I like the aura ring, because you can turn off the Bluetooth. And so I have a lot of sensitive patients to EMF, so they get a little wary of trackable devices, which I totally understand. And then in the office, I do I have a really unique therapy called sound of soul that actually measures your heart rate variability, and then converts your heart rate variability to music, and then plays it back to you. And so, yeah, this ultimate biofeedback of turning your own heart rhythm into music to actually create more coherence in your body. And it translates into, like a lot of not only feeling of peace and parasympathetic states, but also can be very healing for the emotional body. I have an Austrian researcher, and I'm the creator of this, Rasmus, Count burghausen, who's on the seminar as well. And he studied with Dr. emoto, who is the water guy right? Now you can put intention with water and how that change the crystalline structure of the water. And, you know, we are mostly water right. And so I had a lot of speakers to talk about all these nuances with water to so we know about exclusions on water, structured water and deuterium depletion and hydrogen water. But, you know, knowing that we're water, you know, and knowing that we can change the water in our body by, you know, having, you know, positive sounds. And there's, I mean, I can't go down the list of, you know, this other direction. But that's another tool I use in the office to look at heart rate variability and how the music of your heart can improve your heart rate variability,

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay. And so the best kind of at home things that people can get their hands on out of the gates, I know the M wave, is a wonderful device that you can do obviously, or ring is excellent as well, any other kind of wearable or at home things that you do yourself personally, or that you recommend for patients so they can look at this kind of dial it in and optimize their physiology. 

Dr. Christine Schaffner: As far as heart rate variability and heart coherence, I think we have that covered. You know, other tools that I use at home are in the realm of photo bio modulation and sound medicine that we go in depth on Body Electric 2.0. And and happy to share more about that as well. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, let's talk about that. So what's photobiomodulation? I'm guessing something to do with light. 

Dr. Christine Schaffner: Yeah. So you know, this is, I think, such a fascinating part of medicine. And we are wired to respond to light, right? So we have things in our body called chromophores and chromophores are they respond to different wavelengths of light and light is part of the visible part of the electromagnetic spectrum. And so, you know, it ranges from UV light to infrared light and everything in between. And each of those sections of light or colors or light, or they correspond to different wavelengths of light. And then different wavelengths of light have different activities in the body. Right? So the things that we're thinking about when we think about photobiomodulation is, okay, what's the wavelength of light? What does that translate of what we call depth of penetration, and our tissues is it scratched the surface, or is it gonna go deeper into the body where we can affect even more change. And then there's a whole other realm, not only called photobiomodulation, but it's called photodynamic therapy, which we talked about also in the summit. And photodynamic therapy is pairing something called photosensitizers. So natural substances and also synthetic, that actually make us more able to receive treatment from like, for example, things like riboflavin, or blue, our, you know, green tea, or poly MBA, or our teas are all the things those substances actually get taken up to. This is where I just continue to like marvel at nature. So inflamed cells and cancer cells more naturally take up those photosensitizers. And then they're more vulnerable to different wavelengths of light. And so for instance, if we're trying to, you know, affect the mitochondria, we might use, you know, red light, paired with methylene, blue, or so forth, where we can use that combination. And that's an in office tool. At this point, we use IV laser, we use topical laser, but at home, you can use more photobiomodulation tools. And so the things at home that I think are really helpful are in red, and infrared I have on my desk here a sauna space photon that I love with bread, I put it on all the time when I'm you know, working and that helps to penetrate a little bit more deeply into myself. And it helps to not only have a heating action, which improves circulation, blood flow, detoxification, but it also helps to tell part of our mitochondria to help to produce more energy. And so, so yeah, I think that, you know, more and more tools, Dr. J, are more affordable, you know, and, you know, more accessible I also have even like a little Jew, traveler that I haven't made that my daughter loves it, you know, but it's red and red light. And so, Eddie Weber makes the laser helmet, so it has red and infrared. And I think that is, you know, is that Weber medical, an outfit out of Germany. Dr. Weber is this wonderful German physician who really pioneered the use of photodynamic therapy, especially with oncology. But the Webber laser helmet is infrared, so it actually penetrates through the skull into the brain. And so can you compare that with photosensitizers? Or just do it alone, and that can help clear things like amyloid beta or things that affect and trigger neuro inflammation or improve the glymphatic system, you know, at night and so, um, so yeah, there's a lot of exciting tools in the realm of photobiomodulation and photodynamic therapy, but the the premise of that is that we're wired to receive light. And then also there's a whole we have people who are talking about color puncture on the summit. Dr. Peter Mendell is a German naturopath who, you know, knows the work of Fritz Albert pop with a biophoton theory that our cells again not only communicate with biochemistry, but with bio photons. So low light and low light, low level light emissions. And we know when healthy cells healthy cells emit coherent organized light, and disease cells do not. So they're incoherent, low, low levels of light, so you can add, add biophotons to the body to help heal the cells. And on colored puncture. We have Dr. Peter Mendell and Rosemary Horne talking about it and it's a wonderful adjunct therapy to the work that we do.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, so the things that people can do at home out of the gates is get some kind of a red light device. I have a Jew Jews nice, we'll put a link down below for the Jews. I've seen some of the sauna space light bulbs, those are nice too out of the gates pretty inexpensive. Anything else that any like any other tech devices that people can get access to that they can apply in their daily life?

Dr. Christine Schaffner: Yeah, you know, I think I'm not only like thinking about photobiomodulation photodynamic therapy, but I think also another key point Dr. J's circadian lighting. So I think, you know, our, our brain really responds to light in the cycle of light throughout the day. So the natural rhythms of light and we're around a lot of what we will call junk lighting, we have a lot of inappropriate wavelengths of light at different time. Eating rhythms, so, you know, you want kind of blue light in the morning and you want more red and Amber lights during night to tell your pineal gland that it's nighttime to produce healthy amounts of melatonin that really help to not only help restore your sleep, but to heal your brain. I've been a fan of Dave Asprey truedark circadian light, I have it here. I can turn it red at night. When I'm working when I'm too late. We should be in bed, but I don't know to you know, read. Again. There's all sorts of screen savers to to help and then of course, blue blocking glasses. Right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, cool. So the blue Blocking glasses I like and then what's that true dark technologies that just the light that goes on that goes brighter that more red at night meltdown?

Dr. Christine Schaffner: Yeah, you can basically change the, the wavelength of light throughout the day. So you can use the brighter blue tones during the day and kind of like a red or amber at night. It's really nice.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Something to kind of bump cortisol during the day with the blue but then also maybe decrease cortisol and more kind of support melatonin production at night with more the red and amber light.

Dr. Christine Schaffner: Yeah, and you know, we need blue in the morning to break down and melatonin so so we're Yes, yeah. So, you know, and then, you know, again, if we're overexposed to blue light at that time, we're not getting that signal and everybody, you know, still producing melatonin, and that's optimal levels.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, that makes sense. So what about wireless technology? What about EMF? What about Wi Fi? What are things that we can do? Because sometimes, you know, we have to engage in this to work and to do all the things we got to do. One, is it safe to what are things that we can do to mitigate any stress that may be causing on our body?

Dr. Christine Schaffner: Yeah, you know, it's a great question. And I think we're learning more and more each year. You know, obviously, technology makes our life very connected. And there's so many that we you know, benefits of it, but it does have, you know, effects on the body. And it's cumulative over time, right, that electromagnetic radiation has a cumulative overtime effect. And I think, why it's such a problem right now is because there's no breaks during our day. And you know, that we are not exposed to all sorts of either microwave or RF or, you know, dirty like, or magnetic fields. And so, I have Nicholas Pino and Lloyd Burrell on this, you know, talking about EMF, and you know, the thing that I like patients to focus on because it can be so overwhelming. And when you have an icy chronically ill people who often have a neurological illness. And you know, when you're trying to heal from a neurological illness, you really, this is really important, because this can be very disruptive for your, for your health, and it can affect peroxy nitrite. It can affect melatonin production live, if I own it can put you in the cell danger response. So we know this. And so how do we break the time, you know, that we're exposed, and I think focusing on your sleeping location is really important. This is a time when your body needs to heal repair, it's the time that the lymphatic system works. And so you know, if you can do kind of layer things, right, so, turn off your Wi Fi at night on if you're really sick, I wouldn't encourage you not to have Wi Fi in your home. If you, you know, again, don't bring any devices in your room, try to, you know, not bring your phone in your room or your iPad. And then again, looking at dirty electricity in the wiring of the wall. So that has to do with household wiring. And you can measure that with something called a stetzer filter. There's also greenwave filters that come with little devices that you can plug into your outlets and see, you know, is there a disharmonic electrical field being emitted from the the wall and our being our body and then the solution, it's an expense, but it's simple, you just put a filter that helps to create more of a harmonious harmonious electrical current from the wall. So thinking about dirty electricity turning off the wind, I know again, depending on how sick people are and where they live. I mean, if a cell phone tower or 5g towers like right across the street from you, you might have to up you know the protection. Again, just focusing on the bedroom first. So you can work with a building biologist. I love the work of Brian Hoyer, we show that healing people like that who can come and measure and really give you specific guidance for your home and what to spend money on. So is that feeling pain? Is that you know, films over your windows? Is that asleep canopy? Is that moving your bedroom into another place of your house because you know distance is your friend. And so a lot of times if we can manipulate those variables people can find you know how they can at least optimize their sleeping location.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: What about like EMF harmonizing devices. Obviously, I have I think I saw some of the green wave electricity filters right. I think that's what you were recommending earlier about some of the EMF harmonizing devices you'll see put on on phones or like little pens or maybe even a grounding mat. Are those worthwhile? Do they have a beneficial effect?

Dr. Christine Schaffner: It's a great question. And, um, you know, the greenwave are dirty electricity that are you know, work and they're these harmonizers right. I haven't been the backpacker, many back on the, you know, summit and she has a company called the matrix where she works with a French researcher. And, you know, I was I've been always really skeptical of harmonizers because I think okay, how, you know, how does that work with, you know, my, you know, limited understanding of biophysics, right. I my mind is opening that there's a place for harmonizing technology. You know, when we think of just principles of physics, we can you know, change energy and information to to either make it a helium frequency or harmful frequency. And what you matrix does is it's these, these little, I have one of my phone here, you can put them in your shoes, they have grounding discs, the grounding discs are quite cool in that, you put them in the bottom of your feet. And when you walk on them, they're these crystalline kind of disks that when you walk on them, they stimulate what we call a piezo electric effect in your, in your body, and it structures the water in your body that I think makes you more resilient to the oncoming stress. So I think about harmonizers, if there's a way that the harmonizing technology can increase your resilience to the, you know, constant assault, you know, of this information in and day out, and I think this is, I think this is where we have to go, and I'm excited that there are more people looking at this and studying this, because, you know, unfortunately, we're just gonna be it's gonna get worse before it gets better before we can change technologies.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And are you quantifying a lot of the benefits of these devices? Like, do you have a good EMF reader? I know, there's one out there called Safe and sound, that's pretty good. We're or there's a trifield meter? That's pretty good to where you can, you know, you can try some of these different block or technologies and measure it, how are you quantifying it outside of just how you feel?

Dr. Christine Schaffner: Yeah, you know, it's a good question. So, you know, there are, of course, data points, you know, with patient care. And then, um, you know, as far as looking at shielding technologies, you know, we think about looking at, you know, whether they're affected by, like you said, the safe and sound leader, the coordinate meter is kind of like a red, yellow, green kind of system, that can be very helpful. Again, you know, knowing what you're measuring, so if you're measuring RF versus magnetic fields, so try and feel. So those are, you know, you know, great tools. And I also just think that, you know, working with a building biologist, is going to be the most helpful because they look can also measure what we call body voltage. So looking at how these, how these mitigation tools actually change the effect on your physical body, right, so they can, you know, look at the body voltage to see how these things change, actually, the effect on your body. There's an Austrian group, I'm geo vital. They train people to look at this. And that's Brian Hoyer he studied with him, they have a lot of great information there.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, cool. Excellent. Anything else you want to let patients know or everyday person know about this kind of technology? I know, a big question I get all the time is near infrared, far infrared? Or both? What's your take on on the two? And how are they different? You know, in regards to wavelength and such?

Dr. Christine Schaffner: Yeah, yeah, so we have the infrared spectrum, right. And so there's a near middle and far, so it depends on you know, where you are in that category, I think all of them have, you know, a benefit the forest gonna be a little bit more, you know, penetrating. But I think that, you know, having a range, if you can kind of have a mix of all of those wavelengths, that's going to be the best. But again, I think that's, you know, I don't think I think we can kind of maybe hyper focus on that a little too much. I think that whole spectrum of wavelength is healing for the body and just finding a tool that's accessible and affordable for you and that you feel something from I think is really important. And I am I didn't answer one of your questions Dr. J about grounding. Grounding mats have been around and some are better than others, I've seen people feel really good from them and I've seen people get worse and when you have a grounding mat, you want to make sure that is grounded. So you want to make sure if you have to plug it in that that outlet is the absolute measure that like Home Depot does look at that. So that's really important. [inaudible] beds are their friends of mine and they have a really nice grounding pad, it's more expensive, but it's it works very well people need that kind of support. And then again, you don't need a fancy grounding pad you can just go out in nature and put your feet in the ground and that that works and I think grounding is just another practice like gratitude. You know that one that really can help our physical bodies in so many ways decrease inflammation help with blood flow and circulation and so forth.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it and so we have the the shortwave, that's more like the regular infrared red light right and then the longer wave that's what you may get like at an infrared sauna. 

Dr. Christine Schaffner: Yeah, it depends like Infrared Sauna can be it can be near middle or far the kind of the range nomination got it. Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And so the short is good for what and the lungs good for what?

Dr. Christine Schaffner: it's just depth of penetration. So the longer length the more depth that will penetrate into your fat cells right?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So short maybe like topical skin or inflammation on the surface-

Dr. Christine Schaffner: – Penetrate I mean, I don't know off the top of my head those centimetres penetrate but you still get that's that's the that's the category of wavelength of light that gets the farthest in the body and then it's Just semantics with the, the near middle and far, but it's gonna all of those are gonna penetrate more than red light.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think that's what like 700 nanometers and up to two to 3000-

Dr. Christine Schaffner: Red is 660 nanometers and near infrared is around 880. So I think Yeah, the cutoff is like 700 to 1200. 

Yeah, it's links down below for your summit, we're gonna do, we'll put the link down below for anyone that's listening, they just want to click, you're good to go there any other real world kind of applicable information that people listening and they want to start taking control of their health? How do they use some of these cool techniques? Is there any other aspects that we haven't talked about yet? You want to share?

Yeah, you know, there's one other aspect that I'm really excited about is that's the field of sound medicine. So, you know, we know altra sound is a sound waves to diagnose. So treat our bodies therapeutically. And you know, we are I had a woman who's a neurologist, Dr. Choudry, who wrote a book called sound medicine if you want to dive deeper, and she's a neurologist, who also studies ancient Indian texts that mapped out the body that we all have, every body part has a resonant sound that can bring it back into balance. And so, you know, we can use sound medicine through mantras chanting, Eileen McKusick talks about biofield tuning. So using tuning forks, I talked about sound of soul. But you know, finding [inaudible] was on the summon, and she uses a lot of meditations and sound therapies to also, you know, just to also leave help the body emotionally, as well. And so I think, um, you know, sound medicine, I love sound baths, you know, there's a lot of things now through zoom that you can do in the comfort of your own home, but we're wired to receive light and sound. And I think that can be finding the tools and therapies that are accessible to you. And those categories can really support your healing on a lot of levels.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That's excellent. Dr. Christine, really appreciate it. Well, we're gonna put the links down below for the summit, or And then your site is We'll put the spelling and the link down below for anyone listening. Any other coordinates, you want to share the listeners with your podcast, or YouTube channel or anything else you want to share?

Dr. Christine Schaffner: Yeah, thank you. I have a podcast that you can find on that website, the Spectrum of Health, Dr. J's been on it. And I also my clinic is called eminence health where we have a team of doctors who treat complex chronic illness with all of these modalities and more. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And you're primarily in the in the Seattle area.

Dr. Christine Schaffner: Yeah, so I'm in Seattle, I'm a naturopathic doctor. So I can see new patients and a number of states have acquired a number of licenses over the pandemic so I can treat more people, virtually who are new and I have a presence in Seattle in California.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Awesome. Dr. Christine will really appreciate you sharing these excellent information. Again, for more information, y'all. Click down below getting access to that summit, where you're going to get 20 or 30, other really good experts, speakers and all these different topics and you can dive in. Dr. Christine, thank you so much.


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