Mold is a common bacteria found in our homes where we spend most of the time resting. If left untreated, mold can cause different illnesses for you and your family.
In this episode, Dr. Justin is with Jeff Bookout, owner of Bio Balance. Listen to this podcast as they explain what is natural mold remediation, pros and cons, how to do it safely, how to prevent mold and a lot more. A lot of patients are dealing with mold issues, so this podcast will be very helpful.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani
In this episode, we cover:
1:37 Conventional Mold Remediation
14:39 Air Filtrations
33:14 Mistakes People Make
50:47 Bio Balance Products
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And we are live. It's Dr. J here in the house with Jeff Bookout, Jeff runs the company Bio Balance, and he does natural mold remediation. We're going to dive into the ins and outs of mold remediation, how to do it safely, what to look for how to create a good environment to prevent mold from happening to begin with. today's gonna be such an informative show. I have lots of patients that deal with mold issues, and bringing the experts on that are actually in the trenches. Doing this themselves is super helpful. Jeff, welcome to the show.
Jeff Bookout: Thanks, Dr. J. Happy to be here.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Thank you. Excellent. So let's talk a little bit more about how you got into this industry. Kind of this industry, it seems like there's it's like conventional medicine and functional medicine. There's ways to remediate mold and using conventional methods. And there's more ways to remediate it using natural methods that don't create more kind of dangerous secondary metabolites and kind of fix the issue at the root. Can you kind of compare and contrast and how did you get into this industry?
Jeff Bookout: Long story short, so I was looking for new careers well, looking to be a pharmaceutical rep and I had some ear, nose and throat doctor friends of mine. They knew of a company that had done wonders for their ear, nose and throat patients when it came to mold wanted me to bring a company like that up to Oklahoma. My initial thought was, nope, that didn't sound fun, right. But at the same time, my youngest daughter was actually going through some extreme medical conditions that we had no clue what was going on. So sure enough, it is due to mold exposure, long story short, end up doing this for a living and I love every minute of it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That's amazing. So let's just talk about let's just compare kind of natural or, you know, conventional mold remediation. So there are conventional tests that are out there looking at the air and then there's kind of more functional tests, whether it's the Urmi or whether it's some of the plate testing, how are you looking for it and how are you assessing for mold outside of visually seeing it because sometimes, the visual visually seeing mold is kind of like having Symptoms when you have symptoms? Well, it's probably been going on for a while, kind of the same way with mold. Right.
Jeff Bookout: Great, great question. So a lot of different ways to air tests, and I've done every single one of them at the end of the day, and I was trained the same way everybody else was. But your typical mold inspector is actually looking for that big, black hairy spot all over the wall. If it was that simple. You don't need a guy like me, but I always called there's those obvious things and those hidden things give you an example, the number one reason why people get sick from mold exposure is the dirt for crawl space. Imagine this, the water gets into that soil contaminates the soil. Then imagine the size of that crawl space the entire size of your home, put that up on the wall, that's your big elephant that's in the house. Most people miss things like that. So it's not just air testing. It's a combination. I like different ways of air testing. That's a tool. I have about $40,000 other other gear that helped me find that infrared cameras for sure. meters, the OC meters, ultra fine particle counters, look at co2 levels look at emfs so those are what other things that are involved to go into detail to find what truly is your problem.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it if that makes sense and there's the mole give off more co2 is that while you're testing for co2 as well?
Jeff Bookout: it has been found to see that i i love it from an I'll call it the dilution JW dilution is the solution JW the other loves to say yeah, if you look at co2 levels and if they're above 1000 and sign of a home that home is not getting good air exchange. So imagine your home is this toxic building envelope. Anything that happens here stays here. Mold right on my soul hairspray, it all builds up. I want good air exchange in that house.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, so this is good. So you talked about I think a big five things to look for you taught you mentioned air exchange, which is basically good circulation, good ventilation with the air is active Is that correct? Having a good kind of Input and Output regarding a lot of your ventilation, is that what you mean by that or anything else?
Jeff Bookout: Somewhat because imagine your vehicle is a mold patch, yes, outside in the yard, I can get relatively close to your vehicle outside the yard, I'll never have an issue. But I take that same vehicle full of mold, bring it inside the house, it's a huge issue, because all those moles will be producing toxins, not all of them but more producing toxins and those toxins build up inside that envelope. So the more you can get air exchange, the more it dilutes those.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And so what does that look like? What should someone be looking for for good air exchange? Just making sure the vents are good air filters are good or is it something deeper than that? I know with Evan for instance, he you know you help remediate his house last year but he had very poor exchange with his attic and the attic seemed to be a place and the deals a lot of moisture getting in there and there wasn't good air exchange in those high humidity. Can you is an example of that? How would you look at that personal here?
Jeff Bookout: similar I look at attic as its own separate entity though young living spaces. its own separate entity. The crawl space is its own separate entity. I don't want those three years to talk to each other. So as it gets ventilated properly crawl space gets finished properly, but most people miss are breathable air, I want good fresh air exchange air coming in air going out. They have what's called HRV systems or era systems, heat recovery, ventilation or energy recovery ventilation, basically breaks area and throws air out kind of depends on where you live drier, hotter or colder environment which one of those two that you need?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, so are we just looking for ventilation on each floor of the houses that it is that simple or something deeper?
Jeff Bookout: Generally your HRV or your ERV systems, they will do all your floors. So if you have a basement main level, upper level that will hook systems to be able to take air from each level, throw it outside the house, bring in fresh air,
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: so how's HRV or ERV different than your typical ventilation that's already there. Like you have your you have your AC and you have your Already in there, this is attached to the heaters is attached to the HD?
Jeff Bookout: You can have it done either way so if I was building a new house today I would have an ERV system attached to my HVAC system. So my units automatically doing it for me. But if you don't already have one of those installed your regular heating air is just circulating that same air, stale non moving mold, radon Lysol hairspray throughout your environment, I want a way to take that air, flush it out, get some good interchange.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, and then so the ERV or the HRV is doing what it's getting out of the house,
Jeff Bookout: getting it out, bringing fresh air in throwing the old air out. Okay, God it goes through basically a cylinder that captures about 80% of that energy. So just not taking that warm, nice, cozy air in the winter and throwing it all outside. You're recovering about 80% of that energy.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, got it and this is a standard installed at some HVAC person could do?
Jeff Bookout: Correct.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: or it's an expensive How much would that cost and what brands you like?
Jeff Bookout: A great question on the brand I don't like to go brand names unless I personally have used it. So I'm going to, but I would stick with your name brands such as Braun GE names like that, that you know and that you've heard of.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: ERV and an HRV. Is that what it is?
Jeff Bookout: Yes. And the only differences is what climate you're in hot or cold climate.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, so if you're in a hot climate, it's going to be what? ERV and then hot climates. What like Texas, Florida, those kind of areas.
Jeff Bookout: Exactly right. I start getting up into Colorado now. I wanted HRV so it covers more that he dumped on so
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Midwest, is it more Midwest and up? HRV?
Jeff Bookout: Yeah, I would say is probably not accurate, but it's pretty close. the middle of the road, everything South yarby everything up. HRV.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it, that's very good. Okay, so we have that. What about humidification? What about dehumidifiers? So my home I put a whole house dehumidifier in the basement area, my offices Because just because I felt like there was a heat sink between the cement Foundation, and it just created a lot more humidity about 20% different than the other floors. My first and second floor I noticed humidity was always fine because the AC was knocking it down. But the basement was so cool. The AC wouldn't trick on that much in the summer so it didn't have the ability to recapture that humidity. So we got the dehumidifier for the first floor. What's your take on that and how important is having a good whole house dehumidifier?
Jeff Bookout: Yeah, love em. I'm not in my own home. I actually have portable dehumidifiers. I used to 70 pint dehumidifiers in the summertime I MTM at least every eight hours. That is a lot of water coming out of there. But you can also hook them into your drain lines. Get a whole house you know that I have you in line? Yeah, yeah, exactly right. At least for the first week. I love people not to put them to the drain lines because I want them to see how much moisture they're actually taking out of the air.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Unbelievable how much comes out and people Like, well, I don't have a leak. It's like the first leak is the internal leak of just moisture, right when, when the air is too saturated natural water that develops can't evaporate, therefore, mold grows.
Jeff Bookout: Yeah, so I'm looking at a lot of phone calls throughout the day, Jeff, my basement smells musty. Well, when it smells musty, that's MBO sees mold, volatile organic compounds, that's the odor that you're smelling. Is it due just to high humidity or is there actually water sitting up against the foundation or moisture intrusion, but a lot of times it's just excessive humidity. So that number I like is below 50%. between 40 and 50 is probably prime in my own home I tried to keep it around 40. So once I get above 50, let's say 60 to 65% mulk and start just growing right off the high humidity and dust into the air 65 to 70. I'm seeing it on every surface is going roster on top of your laptop, and it can't feed off anything off your laptop. So in the reason why I don't like to get too far low, especially during the wintertime. So I'd like to keep at least about 35%, around 35 to 40% in the wintertime, because there's where viruses actually flourishes in real low humidity. Luckily, I don't have a house full of sick people. But if people are prone to getting sick quite often, the lower the humidity, you're actually going to start allowing by viruses, things like.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, so that's great. So we're on that it gets actually very, very dry in the winter. So we do have a whole house humidifier that I'll turn on for 35% is that a good percent and to put it on and do you like whole house humidifiers for that reason?
Jeff Bookout: I'll say 35 to 40%. Every other week, I'm in the Denver area. I do not like humidifiers. attached to my HVAC system. Unfortunately, I live in Oklahoma, I go to Denver a lot. I see the need for right because I don't want bloody noses. I don't want to touch everything and static electricity is coming off. So if you do have one Make sure that the filter remains clean, the filter housing remains clean, and the drain line remains clean. There's where mold is going to more than likely grow.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, good. So if you have that in there, just maybe a good hvac guy kind of come out, look at everything, look at the filtration. Make sure everything's good. And you also mentioned earlier about I think, was a Merv 11 is the filtration number you want for the air filter that you put in for the filter on the H back as well. How important is that?
Jeff Bookout: I think it's extremely important. If you look at your cheap one that I buy at the hardware store that's green, they measure everything in microns. So a human hair is about 100 microns in size and a mold spores roughly three microns in size. Your cheap 99 cent air filter allows human hair to go right through it. Whereas your Moravian elevens can capture about 97% of all those small particles such as your mold spores.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, got it. So, the Merv 11 would filter out something Three microns eyes. That is correct. So there's 11 does not correlate with the micron size?
Jeff Bookout: though the 11 core Yeah, it does the nut it doesn't sound correct but we're writing 11 will filter that point three or three micron and three microns out.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay got it, and some filters are like a 2.3 filters out point three microns or point three, but then some say point oh three, is there any thing to that at all when you see
Jeff Bookout: that there is a difference there because you're talking about numbers, but at the end of the day, I don't want to put too much strain on my hvac system. That's why I don't go above more random 11 in there. Where is your Austin Aries that I know you have the radium 16. But if to keep my hvac system running without putting too much strain on that by restricting air, I like just a Moravian 11. So as I go down to let's say, point, three microns, okay, it may not be getting 97% of those, but it's getting what 85 You know, I'm not For sure, but that number is still pretty high.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And this is the reason why you don't want to rely fully on a whole house filters because it just puts a lot of strain on the whole system. So you rather have a really good filter at the Merv 11 and then have a couple of these, you know, really high quality air filters that we talked about, like the Austin or those kind of things at that 16 rating.
Jeff Bookout: Exactly right. And the other thing I look at is hey, this is my eight hour a day sanctuary in my master bedroom. I'm going to have one in there right I want the best that I can.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, exactly. I look at it as Hey, you know, your workspace where you're working and where you're sleeping. Those are like your prime spots because you're going to be sleeping eight hours a day and you'd be working eight hours there's that covers at least at you know 75% of your day right there. You're breathing awesome air.
Jeff Bookout: Exactly right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, good. So we have air filtration we have the whole house air filtration Merv 11 and any just name brands with those filters. Is that good enough?
Jeff Bookout: I use Phil tree from Lowes by military full package. Yeah, that's the ones I personally use as long as It is meridiem 11, I'm happy. Okay, got the brand.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Good. If we are in a climate where it's very dry, we'll put the whole house will put a whole house humidifier and we just gotta make sure our filters clean lines clean. All that stuff is good to go and probably just have a good hvac back person come out to make sure things are set.
Jeff Bookout: And that's something you can do yourself too if you're somewhat crafty, kind of say save a guy from coming out. Because that's probably Yeah, they're probably I'm not sure the exact recommendation on how often to change that filter. But if it's me, especially during the wintertime when it's being used a lot, I'm going to check it probably over 30 days. Make sure that things cleaned out.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow. Okay, all right, that's really good to know. Alright, so we have the filtration aspect of the whole house. We already talked a little bit about some of the devices that I use and you use I use Austin air I also have a molecule that does different technology. I also have an air doctor as well. I'm a big fan of the Austin Aries we sell that on my website as well. So big fan will put links down below anything else you want. Want to say about this specific whole house? Or the specific air filtration that you may put in and plug in? per room? Anything else people should look at there?
Jeff Bookout: Yeah, and my personal opinion is, is what I'm looking for is by reading a 16 air purification and voc filtration. So what does the best in my opinion, Austin air IQ air I liked a lot is doctor is up there. Anything that makes a chemical change I don't want and the reason why it may be just fine for me, but a lot of my mold sensitive patients are also chemically sensitive. So when you take a device that uses hydroxyl, which is one of the ones that you're talking about, or if you have a unit that uses ozone, those will produce a chemical change that a lot of these people can have a reaction to. That's why I like to keep it simple.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, good. All right. And then with the See here, I think it's the helpmate plus the big size actually does 15 pounds activated charcoal 15 pounds of the zeolites that kind of pulls a lot of that nasty stuff out of the air and doesn't create that chemical changes more sucking it up and then it is reacting with it.
Jeff Bookout: That is correct. Okay, good. Excellent. Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So that's going to decrease the volatile organic compounds as well as the mold of volatile organic compounds as well. Correct. Exactly. Okay, good. Alright, so let's kind of hit so we have good air exchange, we talked about the the MECS or the Can you repeat those devices again? I mean, no, HRV is that way terminal HRV and me V and E RV. Alright, so HRV HRV. I think of heart rate variability testing, so HRV and the second one was the ER V, we'll put links down below and we'll have a transcription. I'll try to dig some good products that we find with good ratings will put some links below. All right, good. So we want those in to help exchange the air outside of the house. We want good whole house filtration, right? 11 murf 16 on the higher quality ones. We talked about a whole house dehumidifier, potentially a humidifier. If you're a climate where it gets dry enough. What about what specific about these crawl spaces or basements now because you mentioned What if you have a dirt crawl space? How do you handle that?
Jeff Bookout: Yeah, so there again number one reason why people get sick from mold exposures and dirt poor crawl space. So, in what happens is joma crawl space air is communicating with a breathable air above it pipes, holes, my water lines, cable line, some electric, anywhere that air can be sucked up, that's where it's going to suck up. So when if you have an H HVAC system, when it comes on, it creates so much negative air pressure, it will pull the air from that crawl space and allow it to communicate with that breathable air. So what needs to be done? My general rule of thumb is number one, a 20 mil vapor barrier that completely encapsulates that soul. That's just a real thick plastic. Jeff six is code. Okay. My problem is with a thinner vapor barrier, somebody gets underneath their works on the house, they can rip it hold punctures tears. Now imagine that soil as it's not correct, but you get a visual this way. The Scooby Doo green gas. Yeah, that green gas is coming out of that soil and now communicating, but when I put that vapor barrier over there, encapsulate that soil so that soul can no longer talk to the air above.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So with just some cement be enough with something like a professional grade laminate be enough. What needs to go down besides that plastic sheeting,
Jeff Bookout: So if you were building a house from scratch, and having the summit there already would be a great option,
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: but it's already good. But if you had that plastic barrier, you could probably cement over that as well. Right?
Jeff Bookout: I probably wouldn't. The cost of doing that makes that prohibited. So easiest fix is is that vapor barrier that completely encapsulates the soul.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, good. So that encapsulates it. And then what about the summit foundation because that kind of acts like a heatsink there's a reason why I just seen that you probably seen it too is basements always tend to more humid, humid and that's because of the porous air exchange between the outside in the ground just being more humid and then kind of going right into the basement. It's kind of a straight shot is that the reason why it's more humid in the basement? And then can you waterproof the cement.
Jeff Bookout: If I was building a house from scratch, I would actually like a basement. From a mold standpoint of view try to stay away from a basement because generally it is more moist. But if I was starting from scratch, I have my basement walls waterproof. I have what's called a spider drain system underneath the flooring. That way of water sits up against the foundation, it goes into that drain. I have spider legs out through the middle of the flooring in the basement. So with a high water table comes up and goes into that drainage. A sump pump will take it away.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, so that's spider pump. That's basically your typical sub pump that lines the the foundation perimeter and any water that sits there. It just pumps it away from it. That's correct. Correct. We have that and then you mentioned the water glass. You mentioned the waterproofing to go ahead.
Jeff Bookout: Yeah so in a perfect world the outside should be waterproof and the inside I would double up on that. But the big thing is on basements today most of them aren't new builds, it's keeping moisture away from the foundation of the house. Number two is to make sure we don't have a high water table that's causing SS and moisture into that concrete. But generally your basements are about 10% higher and humidity than the air above. So combination of reasons just what you talked about or excessive moisture either against the foundation or coming up from the slide.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah What I did my house we have sub pumps all around the whole perimeter and obviously hooked up to a battery power unit because in case you have a storm and the power goes out you want those sub pumps working so separate battery, and then also are like the what's what's the word I'm looking for? the gutter system on my house where it goes down off the sides. We have all the lines buried and they go way away from the house. So in the water It goes down off the off the gutter system, it's buried and goes out, you know 3040 feet away
Jeff Bookout: that way you're not having moisture against the foundation.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and that's another good thing I've seen that that's worked really well keeps the moisture away sub pump but then also bury those lines and get away from the house. Any feedback on house drainage like that?
Jeff Bookout: No, not really, trench train French train systems. Yes, kind of what you did one thing before we get off sump pumps, everyone out there that has a sump pump. Make sure that that pit cover or that pit is sealed from your breathable air. Because I'll see a lot of times you'll have a hole that goes down in there, I can look down in it, get your nose close enough to it, you're going to smell it. So if you imagine there's always water most of the time sending in a sump pump, that water brain small growth, I just don't want those two wires to talk to each other. So giving a plexiglass cover that goes over that in seal around the pipe and the electrical cord coming out. That way I can still see what's going on down there. But those two wires aren't Communicate.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, good. So I'm already making notes here, I'm going to have an H fat guy come in, install a cup of those devices and make sure that my system is fully Plexiglas off. Excellent. And then if people are in the basement now and they don't have a sub pump installed, and they don't have let's just say, you know, the water proof coating inside or out, what can they do besides with the only options be just dehumidifier and their water, air exchange, air exchange, maybe get the water way away from their house with their with the gutter system? Is that those be the key key things to do.
Jeff Bookout: That's exactly right. can set it better?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, and what does the sub pop cost to put in five or 10? grand?
Jeff Bookout: Um, I don't know, but I'm assuming a lot less than that. Okay. All right. My guess is to $3,000 range.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay. All right, guys. They're just kind of laying out some options for people that may be chemically sensitive. These are things you definitely want to look at. When you get your house done. I'm just shocked that people don't use this waterproof coating on the inside or out. I mean, you That's just so common sense and probably so cheap. Why isn't that used?
Jeff Bookout: frequently? Money? Yeah, the builder, the builder built it, he's building it as cheapest cost as possible. So why is he going to go through that extra expensive? waterproof?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, yeah, no, I guess unless your custom built for sure. And then can you do the coding after the fact probably on the inside you could right?
Jeff Bookout: definitely on the inside the only thing I would seal off the upstairs there that way any voc is coming off from that ceiling. We're not breathing those in let that air out really good. Because a lot of times the things
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: that I find though, I mean, I've dealt with a couple of different mobile companies and you are so much more knowledgeable than 99%. So there's just there's not, I mean, you deal with more people when you go to reach out to more people you think there's an expectation that everyone knows the things that you know, but they don't. So can people get ahold of you and schedule console with you so they can kind of walk through their house and maybe create a plan or do you have people that are certified by you
Jeff Bookout: So I'm working on that right now he'll be having with me to Denver. I used to travel the country doing this got to be too much. I still have one my one of my girls is still in high school and, and I'll be back Friday night for her cheering at that football game. So great hanging Brandon and Brandon will eventually be the next me and he'll be able to travel a lot more. That's one way I spend. I probably do 4050 phone calls a day. A lot of those are mainly console's. Jeff, Jeff, have a question. I don't care who you are, feel free to give me a call. I'm happy to walk you through anything that I can. I believe God gave me a gift to help people. And that's exactly what I do.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So someone could if I refer patients over to schedule, like a FaceTime and they can just walk with a camera and record their basement and you can kind of give them feedback on things.
Jeff Bookout: Yeah, as long as that console stays low, I'm always happy to do that for free. There are what I call virtual inspections. I don't like those as well as me physically being in your home, but it comes to it and we need to do a virtual inspection. With me, I'm going to charge you for that. But I want to picture a bunch of history, then we'll FaceTime and go through the house. It's not as good as having somebody there like me, but a lot of times, just the knowledge that I have, will tremendously help them.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I have a lot of people that are reaching out there, like, I just can't find someone that's knowledgeable. So this is great. We're going to put your info below as people can schedule these virtual home inspections, because it's better than nothing. Could they team up and get a conventional mold, expect to report and then you could use the report along with a virtual inspection? Would that be better?
Jeff Bookout: I do that all the time, because I like data. Problem with data is it comes with a cost. So if I could get everyone to do about three different ways of air testing, my visual inspection, all that data combined is great, but it becomes cost prohibitive, prohibitive. But the more data I can have from somebody else being there, I'm usually not the first guy they're usually things that failed. That's why it's only me
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And people spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on some other more mediations. And I think it could be a lot cheaper to so we're going to talk about some of the natural methods in a minute. So we hit the crawlspace. We hit the basement. Was there anything else you want to add to the basement?
Jeff Bookout: I think that's it on basements. If you're looking at a new home or your home currently, if the first two things I'm asking you is water against the foundation, do you have a must do? And if you do, that's a great sign that we have some issues going on down there.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, very good. And could people do a retrofit of that, let's say, that waterproof coating on the outside of the house, Could someone come in and still coat it after the fact?
Jeff Bookout: Yeah, they have to excavate all that dirt up against the foundation. Then they put a sealant on there. Then they put all the dirt back. Yeah, I've seen it done.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: costly, expensive. Okay. All right. So probably maybe a sump pump will probably be the easier way then to start.
Jeff Bookout: I do I think I think most people can probably get away on that.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: okay or that's good to know so we hit the basement What about the attic so I know with Evans situation he had really poor air exchange in the attic is it just as simple as getting ventilation up there is it just as simple as making sure your roofs not leaking in the attic what you would be looking at in the attic.
Jeff Bookout: So a couple things one, the first thing I always looked at as proper ventilation, I need a way for air to go into that adequate for air to go back out of the attic. In my own home I actually put it's my definition of an attic fan. That fan is attached to the roof of my house set at five degrees in temperature and 45% humidity so when it reaches that those fans automatically come on suck air from the soft events and force it out. That way I know I'm getting great air exchange up there. The other thing I'm looking at is my joist in my decking Do I have roof leaks or have I had Roof Leaks? I tried to trace those back because you can have a roughly I hear it travels down the Joyce then finally shows up You know, 1020 feet away from the, from the actual intrusion site, and there's where mold is going to be into that insulation or the top side of that sheet.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And how are you tracing that back and using an infrared camera to kind of see where that heat exchanges to see what that leak could be?
Jeff Bookout:If it's currently going on at the time, you can use infrared to find that, but if not, I mean, basic skills. Okay, here's a water line yet I'm gonna fall out of line just go well, more water line. It's going to be dropping right there. Okay, good. Move away. The insulation is the real problem yesterday, but a lot of times on the ceiling side, this is my living room. I look up I have a water spot.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That's the one spot there because it will eventually hit you got a stain?
Jeff Bookout: Yeah, you're looking at 10% the problem the other 90% on the backside of that sheet right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Now when you get a watermark like that, do you have to go in there and cut everything away? Or is it is it acceptable for it to dry fix the environment and that mold won't be there if you can't see it visually.
Jeff Bookout: I will always tell you if you see water damage on sheetrock, especially a ceiling Cut it up. The reason why I know I know is there more than 48 hours, and there's where mold starts to grow right exponential after that. So I knew it stayed there for more than 48 hours, it's more than a 50% chance that there's more growth on the backside.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, got it. So you see water damage, cut it away. We'll talk about some of the natural compounds that you created over at bio bound, which I'm really excited to chat about. So we're looking at the attic Tell me about these fans is this kind of standard operating procedure in an addict or it's for there to be ventilation for it to be fans?
Jeff Bookout: Not necessarily a fan that's just forcing the air? Generally, it's either I have a vent or several events on the roof. That's how the air gets out or rich cap or, or table that one on each side that allows air flow. So there's different ways that people do it. I like attaching the fans because it forces that
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, got it. So how would if someone's like in that predicament? reaching out to a mold guy to have that looked at or that be a general idea? Bad guy that could give you more insight into that
Jeff Bookout: General Roofing roofing guy. So hey, it's my roof adequately ventilated,
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: ventilate. Okay, good. So it'd be something that they would be able to still be educated about.
Jeff Bookout: Correct. And a lot of times I'll go there's no way for me to go out there'll be a soffits underneath the house underneath the ease, but no Ruffin so all that excess moisture stays and you'll have mold destroying all over the decking because of that.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, so make sure we have good ventilation in the attic space we can find a roofer probably good h fat guy and then obviously make sure there's no leaks any other key take homes for the attic area.
Jeff Bookout: Now, the biggest thing is you're looking for any visible damage. Jeff, what is mold look like? It doesn't look like a new piece of wood. That might be a problem.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right? Okay, good. Very good. And some more, I find two by fours are staying just because they set out in the outside, when they're being built when they're being built to begin with. So you can have some mold, but it may not be an active infection or active mold issue. How do you differentiate that?
Jeff Bookout: Great question, so you can always send a swab to the lab To answer that question, Debbie has a great lab there, Amy noetic said I do a lot of testing with Yes. But if I visibly see mold, you will never convince me that it's not active, whether it's giving out mycotoxins or not whether it's, you know, dried for 100 years, I see visible mold growth, I'm going to treat it with a 12% hydrogen peroxide solution. And I'm going to seal it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, yeah, we had the same issue in my basement and I tested I use the analytics kits and my basement came back at one and then Oh, great. We hit it with the 20% hydrogen peroxide hit all the two by fours anyway, and then we did the fogging solution afterwards, and we got it down to zero. So it wasn't much to begin with. And I'll kind of share my experience so I had an I found some mold behind the back of my range stovetop, and I'm not sure if the sealant from the previous owner wasn't quite sealed properly. So moisture or water was kind of falling behind the drywall in between, essentially the cabinet and the drywall and it created this kind of more The environment right behind there. And so we were like shoot. And the I think the biggest fear with most people is, if they don't see any damage on the drywall, they feel the need to Should I rip every wall up and you kind of get this anxiety of like, Oh my God, my whole house, I'm going to wrap it all up. But then I did when I talked to you and JW was like, hey, if you don't see any damage, let's just treat what we know is there and we hit it with the 20% hydrogen peroxide and then we fogged everything else because we don't have any damage, visible damage, it can't be that bad. So we'll just fog everything else. And it will make sure that the environment is fixing the root cause of that issue is fixed. And we were able to knock I think multicores down at I think I'm 18 or 20 or so in the kitchen. We knocked down to one and everything in the house is between one two or zero.
Jeff Bookout: That's my great now that's that's phenomenal. And always I like that analogy because everyone is scared and rightfully so. So yeah, I'm Jeff I'm going to tear out every wall. I don't let let's find what we do know fix what we know. You'll always have mold in your environment. We just wanted at proper levels, right? So am I going to spend my sanity trying to find every little pea sized spot in a perfect world? Yes, but that's not realistic.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So let's go into the top like mistakes that people make. And I think that's probably one of them is that overreaction feeling, but let's go over the top mistakes that cause people to overspend in their mediation. I see people spend hundreds of thousands of dollars where they may have been able to get away with 10,000 or $20,000. For a really bad one, some maybe only maybe only 1000 or two or maybe just a couple hundred bucks. If it's a humidity issue. Can you talk about those big mistakes and and kind of what's the hierarchy people should be looking at?
Jeff Bookout: That's a loaded question. I could go on for a couple hours with this one, but at the end of the day, three things need to happen. One is I have to find moisture intrusion and stopping, whether that's an ongoing leak, high humidity, whatever that case is, the moisture is gotta stop. And as long as I find that and stop that, then we're going to keep that from reoccurring. Then secondly is finding identify any mold damaged materials, either remove them or make proper corrections. So, in my opinion, there's no substitution for removing damaged materials. There are some, some things in there let's say I ripped open behind your stove. I pulled all the damage sheetrock out, I I'm down to studs, my studs, I've got a couple spots, a little bit of mold growth here there. I don't have as long as that Woods not wet, wet or dry rotted out, I can keep that word I'm going to treat it with hydrogen peroxide 12%. Then I am from 12 to 22 and no longer use the 20 Yeah. Then I'm going to use a sealant I like to use a safe sealant such as as a EMF safe coat. So some of the products that we use are, are huge key because I'm dealing with a medically sensitive patient that needs More than likely is going to be chemical sensitive as well. So I don't like the biocides germicide fungus sides ozone in high doses. do they work? Yes. Can they hurt you at the same time? Yes, that's why we tried to use hydrogen peroxide and the treatment protocols that we'll be talking about in a minute. So, number one, stop the moisture number to remove damaged materials or make proper corrections. And do it under proper containment. There's where a lot of people mess up. Mold works like a dandelion out in the yard soon as you kick it disturb it thinks it's going to die those this mold spores out to regenerate somewhere else. So when I rip open your cavity transit through the house I'm throwing excess a mold spores everywhere making that problem worse than what it was before. So make sure it's done correctly. That's why I do love mold remediators, they come in contain that area off use negative air pressure,
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: negative air pressure important Hmm.
Jeff Bookout: So that's Rule number two, rule number three, treat the air to get those excess and mold sports back under control. And there's where I see a lot of people go wrong as well. Jeff, I've got a clearance report in that stove area, everything's fine. A problem more than likely it's been going on for several years putting excess a mold spores and mycotoxins throughout your entire environment. That's why we treat the entire house, get those things back under control and do it safely.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And that includes leaving all your clothes up, right kind of leaving all your books, they are kind of getting into all that don't put it all away because you may be putting mold spores away and then bringing that back out later on.
Jeff Bookout: I'll hit that two ways. One, there's a general rule of thumb on all belongings, no visible mold damage, no visible water damage, probably most importantly, no mouth odor into those items. My nose is very specific, has three different odors for mold. Your nose may be different than mine. If it smells funky, get rid of it, as long as it passes those first three criteria. You're exactly right. Get that fog into everything into your clothes into your bedding into your furniture, into your dishes, to say, maybe put it in my mouth and in my eye to get it on a flight to Salt Lake City. This is a product that has a material safety data sheet and zero. It's GSE based grapefruit seed extract, lemon, lime and tangerine extracts. Then we'll we'll let you ask those questions on the material.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, yeah, we're going to go into that. So I just I think the big thing I really just want to hone in on because this is the mistake that most people make is they just go ripping down random walls and stuff. So you find your leg you see it, and then you isolate that area and then you don't go ripping everything up. You just you you see it, whatever's damaged. You trace the leak, you see where it's exposed, you remove that area but then you don't go ripping up everything else. But then you you fog all into behind the walls, the choices, the two by fours. You get it into the H back you hit everything so even if you can't see it, you're still going to be treating it to correctly
Jeff Bookout: exactly right this so I go to foot past any visible damage water damage-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: only two feet only two feet. Got it.
Jeff Bookout: Mojave will grow up to about six inches in length without being able to see it with the naked eye. That's why we go that extra two feet.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Great. Alright, two feet. Excellent. And then anything else we use the fogging solution to hit it. Anything else you want to say about that about topically treating and heading.
Jeff Bookout: Now I think that's the big three kids three things I could hit your head stop moisture, remove damaged materials treat there.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: All right. And then you have the bio balance website where you sell some awesome products that are essential oil based. You have the fogging solution which can get to that one to 10 micron size, which is really important because that dry fog can get into really, really tiny spaces it can get behind underneath the floorboards it can get behind the drywall in between studs and drywall, it can do all of that. So that's the benefit of the fogger. Can you highlight that and can you compare the fogger Let's say to Mr. Because this is one of the new devices you have, which is pretty cool, but I don't think that quite gets to the same micron size.
Jeff Bookout: You bet. So I use it in this way. I use tripod for treatment. Yeah, what went wrong for maintenance? It's the treatment system, the maintenance system. Can the maintenance be used as a treatment in some cases where you can't do a tripod? Sure, but by far the best ways to drive on so let's look at it visually. If you imagine golf balls in, these are most galleries now Now I can see them put up a dry fog which is a true dry fog looks like smoke stays in the air from me to you, Justin, you wouldn't be able to see my hand in front of your face. Exactly. So it stays in the air roughly 30 minutes to two hours depends on temperature and humidity, capturing all those excess of mold spores, dust, debris, virus, bacteria, yeast, it's all that back out of your air. So now imagine let's use a wet maintenance system. In not just mine anytime. That issues it goes up into the air and a fine mist falls out the air extremely quickly. Are you able to capture some? Yes, does it do as thorough of a job as a dry farm by farm
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: so if you have a serious issue higher amounts of mold, you probably or any visible mold you definitely want to go to the dry dry fog if you maybe just have mold issues that are more maybe because of a humidity environment issue and maybe you can get away with a Mr.
Jeff Bookout: Exactly.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay. All right, that's really good. And let's talk about some of the different misters so there's a commercial grade Mr. There's a home grade one and there's a travel one can someone get away with the travel one for their home or should people be using like when would you use one over the other?
Jeff Bookout: I wish I had the product in front and I do out a little bit. You kind of see it especially the home is perfect for me because it can do commercial applications. Yep, that's my regular residential. But can a little travel Mr be able to go around, treat my 3500 or 2500 square foot home, you'll get a little frustrated.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So that's a little travel mystery is probably what it is you're going to a hotel, you're going somewhere it's a probably a 500 square foot, couple hundred square foot area. You just want to get the couch get the bad maybe get your little office environment if you're on a business trip or something or vacation. Would that be a good application?
Jeff Bookout: Exactly right my cubicle or my classroom? If I'm a teacher, that's perfect for small areas.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, this is perfect. This is a great great you've just hit my next read here. I have a lot of people that are teachers or they're in an environment they can't control and they're like I don't want to use this dry fog that's going to make it a world of you know it's gonna make a huge mess smoke and everything for a couple hours. Like you mentioned. It sounds like these portable ministers or maybe the home based Mr. Maybe a good option to fog it after work and no one's there because you wouldn't even have an issue
Jeff Bookout: or do it while you're there. You're able to do this correctly. So yeah, I have the same issue with you teachers. I can't go to school won't let me solve the problem. But I can make that classroom not day better than what it was, and I get this feedback. I've heard this feedback that's kind of frustrating from some doctors in the past. Why you fog and it's a waste of people's money. Not if they're not fighting, my job is to tell you always find the source, stop the moisture, remove the damaged materials. But let's say I'm an apartment complex or school or an office that I can't control that. That's the next best thing. I can make that air night and day better than what it was before. Is it going to be great? The answer's no. But I've seen teachers in classrooms just by using this immediately get better. And I didn't even solve their mold issues in that property. They're just maintaining the air.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right. So you can pretty discreetly use the Mr. It's not going to create tons of you know, the thicker smoke, we're could set off a fire alarm which can happen. You're not gonna set up a fire alarm. It's pretty discretes and it happened pretty fast. Obviously, you'd want to invest in probably a really good awesome air filter for the classroom to correct yes, exactly right. What else can we do in that office environment besides The monthly treatment using the bio balance products and a good air filter What else can we do?
Jeff Bookout: The only other thing you can get away with it in some places my wife loves the candles from citrisafe.com it's a soy based candle. It's like a mini treatment. So in places that you can use them and can't use the wet or a combination. We look we love using them. So
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: great and and the big thing too I want to highlight for anyone using these products do a pre and post test. You know, don't just believe it get to get some data on the beginning side with at least to play testing if you want to spend a little bit more into Urmi fine and then do a treatment and then follow up on the post. I think it's the best way to see what's going on because some people and I want to highlight this to some people I've seen it drops but it's not quite enough and you need more treatment or some I've actually seen it go up and I've talked to JW about this at the mold is stressing and then producing more mold to toxins, can you talk about what happens when what to do when mold goes off after treatment?
Jeff Bookout: Yeah, always, always give me a call when that happens, because generally there's more than likely still a source somewhere. And you may know that there's a source or you may not know that there's a source. But when we It is rare that that happens. But if there's those issues, give me a call. I love helping people and walking people through those protocols. Because sometimes once isn't enough, they do it the second time and all of a sudden dramatic results. So So the big thing is, is is getting results At the end of the day.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, so we start off with the dry fog and then would you still want to use the dry fog until we get it down and then do Mr. afterwards? I mean, it's okay. And then when people have those issues, what do they tend to be like our pets have a factor What else could be a factor if there's not an active league? And if the humidity is good, and air exchanges good.
Jeff Bookout: Yeah, plants, pets, pets are one of the worst. But what I like to do is okay, if you can keep your Let's do a tap tests on your pets. Yes. Wait, we know the moles that are coming off of your pets. Does that add up to the molds I have in my air? Yes. Oh my pets the problem. I'm going to maintain that with a pet kit from citrusafe.com. Or, Hey, I know that it's not something else that I have a source of. It's just my pet skimming this off. I'm just gonna have to do a better job there.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Jeff on the taps. Yeah. This is this is like my mold plate tapped. So just kind of tapping it literally against the source, what three to five times.
Jeff Bookout: I like four times a cup of my hand,
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: pop pop pop, just tap it and you can do it up against your clothes. Or if you got like a moldy couch and you're not sure you can just tap it against that too. Right? Exactly. Right. Okay, this is great. This is all actionable stuff. I'm telling you. I have patients that have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars remediating their moldy houses and if you're in that position, and you listen to this podcast, you'll save probably, probably five figures if you do it the right way. And plus, you can reach out to Jeff for that virtual homeless. inspection. That's great. So we have the mold testing with the kit or the plates. Can you highlight the Urmi? Like when would you do the Urmi? Is that necessary? Is playtesting enough?
Jeff Bookout: loaded question. I'm not a fan. But the answer is it's a dust DNA analysis. A very intelligent guy told me the other day said, Jeff, if I walked out into my yard came back in did an army testing my shoe I'm going to fail. Probably. I see stuff like that happen all the time. But every way of testing has its flaws. gravity fed plates have the flaws aerosol cassette, indoor and outdoor comparison has its flaws. I just think army gets me the least amount of data for the most amount of money. What I do like about the army, it can show [inaudible] where a lot of different tests don't because if you imagine mold spores as balls, I had a ping pong ball, a tennis ball, a baseball a bowling ball, throw all those up into the air stacking atomium are your bowling balls, they fall out there extremely quickly difficult to get on an air test where it does show up on does DNA analysis. The other problem let's say I do a dry fog. I do an army afterwards. And if I've been at start over with all new dust, that dust is still there, even though it's not producing mycotoxins are causing me a problem anymore, that dust is there. So I always just after somebody doesn't dry fog, where is I always say 95% of the problem is what I'm breathing into the air. So after I fog, I've taken care of that. But where's the other 5% dead mold spores that could still be producing mycotoxins. So where's that going to fall that is going to fall on my horizontal surfaces. So do a good job wipe down of all my horizontal surfaces to get rid of all that dust, dirt, debris, dead mold spores, viruses, bacteria that was in my air that I got out of the
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: and is it good to agitate the air before you put a plate down, so when it falls, you're going to get a better sample. versus something that may already be under the plate? Or would that give you a false positive
Jeff Bookout: So my answer is no, unless I'm pinpointing. So if I'm just seeing if I have mold in my house at what level it's at, I'm going to do everything normal. If I want to get a little bit more, okay, I've got high multiple accounts, Where's it coming from? I'm going to agitate my carpet, I'm going to be do tap test, then I'm trying to find that area. But in a general setting, if I'm just trying to find a snapshot of my area, is it good? Is it bad? No, I don't want them to take some testing.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, because I have one patient who I'm thinking of right now whose mold levels have kept on going up after testing. And there was a pet issue. So we're working on that. And then there the humidification the dehumidifiers are installed. The only thing I could think of is this air exchange mediator, which you mentioned the HRV and the other devices that at the HRV was the more tropical one. How important is that? If everything else is good is that a deal breaker for some people,
Jeff Bookout: I don't necessarily think it's a deal breaker but one thing that is a deal breaker is AdvoCare crawl space air air behind my walls communicating with my breathable air. So go back to my h pack analogy earlier every time it comes on create so much native air pressure pulls air in, so my can lights attic access in my bedroom wall plate coverings or outlet switches that aren't sealed. I'm pulling that air behind my wall in my attic or in my crawlspace into my breathable air. I had a guy that was getting sick just because his access was not soon.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, so the attic is gonna be really important when you say attic access wasn't sealed. That means that that addict needs to have its own air containment that is not ever come down to the house.
Jeff Bookout: Yeah, so sometimes I see the big ladder pull down inside this house. I definitely don't like that. But usually it's just a little pop off. I'm pushing up the sheet. Rock and has a little cut out. But where that cutout is on the interior that takes some silicone sealant around the inside of that, that'll stop those two areas from talking to each other. I need to get my act i just break that seal
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: okay so if i emulate a person I need someone to do that a fact I could do it you say hey, I really want to seal off my attic from the regular part of my house is that a
Jeff Bookout: general contractor pretty much anyone in on the website bio balance now calm, I put together a set of videos where I actually pulled out I have your light switch your outlets, some ductwork can lie so you can see them outside of your wall in my hand and show you where those areas are more than likely going to take AdvoCare and into my breathable air.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That's great. So let's talk about some of the bio balanced products. So obviously you mentioned lime, grapefruit, lemon, various citrus seed oils that are going to be in a concentrated liquid formula. And then we have the various foggers They can dry forget to one to 10 microns and then we have the Mr. Can you go into the ingredients a little bit more than then the different application processes.
Jeff Bookout: Give it both on merging are everything that we have is GSE based grapefruit seed extract is its primer there, again, we're looking for a safe product, something that is not going to cause issues like chemical base that would cause somebody to have issues, lemon lime and tangerine extracts. The synergy of all those put together is what makes this product what it is. So the two formulations ones, one is a water base where the maintenance so it just goes out to the air. The other one you do have to add it for grade glycol propylene to actually make it go into a fog form. That's the only difference. But when you heat up those botanicals as well, they make them more activated. There again is another way it becomes more potent than what the wet maintenance is. So we're looking for at the end of the day, how can I safely get stuff out of the In as long as you're safely getting stuff out of the air, I could care less what product that you're using. Do I think we have the best product for that without a doubt?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent.
Jeff Bookout: That's the, you know, the third thing and the three step, stop the moisture, remove the damaged materials, you must treat that air to get those excessive mold spores back under control and a quick story. Love analogy. So I was at a lady's house. This was in Oklahoma, Jeff, I walked into the walls of my hair salon, nosebleeds every day for the last two years. See Pat machine. I drive up to her house to do an evaluation on the property. I think you know, my 80 year old client No, she was 30 he no Corvette in the driveway. Oh my gosh. It's not doesn't match the symptoms that she had. what she had done gravity fed played other testing. I think the highest was in average was about 35. So I knew there was definitely miss you in there. Go through the entire process of looking at the house no problems inside of her house. We sit down we went over past history nothing. So went back to her. You're hiding something from me because what I'm finding in your house doesn't match your mo plates. She does her head Jeff I had an AC leak in my attic from a kitchen wall living room wall that last month the insurance company came in they removed all that. Well they didn't do it on a proper containment. So all I was dealing with was excessive mold spores in the air. In a dry fog. She calls me the next day Jeff I don't have a nosebleed. Within a week she's offered see Pat no more walking into the walls of a hair salon she called me from Knoxville Tennessee. She had moved there when we to fly third to trader house.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So regarding any area, anytime you're removing wet area, wet or moldy area, even if mold not President got to do a present. It's got to be done in negative air containment. That's kind of the rule of thumb there.
Jeff Bookout: Yeah, contained that area off use negative air pressure. Sometimes you can get away with just an air scrubber, same device. If it's a small enough area that diffusing an air scrubber instead of taking that air and throwing it outside, but your larger containment areas have to have that negative air pressure.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay. All right. Got it. So we have the maintenance. Mr. And we have the commercial Mr. Which can be used in your home. You mentioned the travel Mr as well. Is the water base Mr is at the same ingredients as the dry fogger.
Jeff Bookout: That is exactly correct. The only difference is that it doesn't have a carrier to take it and put it into a dry fog form. That's the only difference.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, I do notice it a little bit. I think there's a little bit of was it propylene glycol in there is that just a stabilizer or a preservative to keep the herbs intact with
Jeff Bookout: that that is only in the dry fog. And that's what gets it into that suspension state allows it to stay trapped in the air and go through that heat exchange system.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: If anyone sensitive to that at all to the propylene glycol or no it's a small and I've
Jeff Bookout: done it for I've done it for 17 years professionally, going into people's homes and I've never had anyone react to it. I always suggest that Somebody stays out of the house for 24 hours after they treat a minimum of 12. So that air is completely back to normal. That way we avoid any issues that could happen.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, good. So we have the water based, and then we have the dry fog or there's a little bit of the propylene glycol, which is the carrier to make it go in there into that dry fog suspension stay which is that one to 10 micron size really tiny. Do you know how big the micron sizes for the wider base?
Jeff Bookout: We always want the manufacturer to post that for us. They will basically sell you tell you five to 10 microns is the answer from them
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: on the water so it's still pretty small.
Jeff Bookout: I feel pretty small. And imagine a Windex bottle spraying fine mist into the air. That's what it looks like.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, good. We're going to put links here and again, we have a promo code here. If you guys want to support the podcast or support Jeff promo code is Dr. J, Dr. J, all one word, no spaces. We appreciate it. We're going to put the link down below biobalancenow.com I can give you my personal everyone listening my personal recommendation and referral I've used the the fogging kit on my house I had mold issues pre and post testing was able to knock it down to two nothing and I've done it we've done a video on a podcast on this where we look over my pre and post test so I can vouch for the solution and the products one thing I'm really interested in is this maintenance Mr. Because this is a newer product that it over the last what six to nine months it's come out yes correct Yeah, yeah. So this is great because this allows a little bit more maintenance and a little bit faster and easier. So you're bringing your kid to college you're traveling and you're staying in a hotel wherever your Airbnb in somewhere this can be a great option for you to bring along. So I like this Anything else? Jeff, you want to say about the various products?
Jeff Bookout: No probably the big thing but I want to get five things into people's heads that yes like this down. Dry fog my own house once a year no matter what. Okay, next I used the monthly maintenance system once a month throughout the house to maintain levels in my Next is I use Moravian 11 air filters in my pack system. Those are the ones that you change out every three months, I suggest that you use portable air purifiers in the house strategically and where you're spending the most time and number five, get good air exchange in your house. So going forward for multitude of patients. That's what I like to do maintenance wise, this
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: podcast is going to save people, the listeners millions and millions of dollars. So I appreciate the value that you're providing here, Jeff, it's absolutely amazing. Anything else you want to leave listeners with?
Jeff Bookout: Anything I can do to help, just let me know.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Head over to biobalancenow.com lots of good videos on how to use the various products. Lots of great educational info and then feel free. How can they reach out to you directly? Jeff if they want to schedule a virtual home inspection with you?
Jeff Bookout: We can give you my cell phone 585741373 I know what I just did. That's fine. You got my cell phone, feel free to use it. Can you say it One more time. 580-574-1373. And is it better for people just to text you first? sure you always fine. If I don't answer I am extremely busy. I'm on the road a lot and I'm on job sites a lot. Leave me a message. If I do not answer the call if I have not responded in 24 hours, please call me back because for whatever reason, I did not get your message.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. If you're dealing with an active issue, definitely schedule that home inspection or virtual Home Inspection because you're probably gonna have a lot more questions if you're on the fence and not quite sure. I think that may be better for a quick call. Excellent here, Jeff, anything else you want to leave listeners with?
Jeff Bookout: maintenance, maintenance maintenance, when you are exposed to mold and you want to get better. It's you don't have to live inside of a bubble, but we do need to make a lifestyle change. And by following those five tips on that protocol, I think it'll make a dramatic difference in your health.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent. I've used your services and your products as well as JW as well. You guys have been super helpful, very knowledgeable, so I'm really happy that the listeners have access to you. And biobalancenow.com promo code: DRJ. Appreciate it. Jeff, you have a phenomenal day. I look forward to having you back on the show real soon. You take care.
Jeff Bookout: Dr. Jay, thanks so much.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Thanks, man. Appreciate it. All right. Bye now. Bye bye. All right, great. That was wonderful.
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