Natural Treatment for your Body Inflammation and Joint Pain | Podcast #273

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Having body pains when you wake up? This podcast gives you all the information you need. For this episode in Beyond Wellness Podcast, Dr. Justin and Evan talk about sleep issues, natural treatments on body inflammation, root causes of joint pains, supplements, strategies, lifestyle approaches and a lot more.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

In this episode, we cover:

0:25 Pillow, Neck Pain Issues

9:16 Importance of Sleep

16:40 Visceral Somatic Reflex

26:01 Functional Medicine for Better Sleep

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Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And we are live. It's Dr. J here in the house with Evan Brand, Evan, how we doing today my friend?

Evan Brand: I'm pretty good except for my neck. I've got one of those crick in my neck. So it's like I slept wrong on the pillow. And so I thought, Okay, we got to cover on a podcast, what can you do naturally besides go run and eat ibuprofen like candy when you have pain and inflammation, so I think it will be very helpful for many people.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think it will too. So we're going to get to the root cause of joint pain as well as natural treatment issues. So that like natural treatment, things, supplements, strategies, lifestyle approaches to get to the root cause. So first thing is what's the root cause of your neck pain? I know we chatted, pretty simple. You slept on your neck wrong. Right? So was there a pillow issue? Do you not have a good pillow that has good support? Was it a one off where you use slept bad, what happened?

Evan Brand: I think it was a one off I probably slept clip probably slept crooked. My daughter came running in the middle of the night to jump in my bed and put her head on my pillow. And I was like Summer, get off my pillow go back to your bed. She didn't want to do it. So I probably made my, you know, I was trying to accommodate her. And I probably did some weird position I don't normally do on my pillow. So then I woke up and then I'm like a 90 year old, you know, man who can't turn his neck.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it. So what happened was you tweak kind of your normal routine and how you slept on the pillow. So probably either she slept on it or contorted the kind of the support thing for you there. And that's what created a lot of the inflammation in the neck. 

Evan Brand: Yeah, so I'll blame it on my daughter. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay. All right. Well, in general pillows I think are really important favorite pillow is going to be the TempurPedic with the cervical curve is really good. And they have one I think it's called the Rhapsody. And it's, it's meant for if you're a back sleeper in the middle, it gives you that good cervical support and then it steps up a little bit on the side. So if you want to sleep on your side and you roll to the outside of the pillow, it steps up a little bit so then you have a little bit more support that your head's not crunched. Like this.

Evan Brand: And so, here's the funny thing. So, you know, when I put my daughter to sleep, I've offered her her own pillow in her bed for the past three years. And she never wanted her head to be elevated until recently because I always thought, Well, did our ancestors use pillows? Did they sleep on like a, I don't know, a big old pile of feathers or something like that, or insects or sleep flat, or were they elevated and it's interesting. As soon as she hit age three, it was like, it was like the snap of a finger all the sudden she wants her head elevated. Now, it's almost like she knows that you get better glymphatic drainage or something when your heads elevated? Because previously, she didn't care about it at all. She was fine to be flat.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, it's one of those things too. It's like you don't know how good you got it until you got it. You know what I mean? So when you come into this world, you're kind of a blank slate, your expectations are pretty low. Right? You know, you just have breast milk. You're not used to eating a flaming yarn or a nice ribeye. It's like Well, okay, that this this steaks pretty good. I kind of want to have this more regularly. You know, it's kind of like that with every part of our lives I think.

Evan Brand: Yeah, I think that's what it is. So now she's spoiled. She's got the pillow and she enjoys it and loves it. But yeah, so I like the idea of the cervical thing I had had. I did have one of those before it was sort of a, I don't know if it was latex or a natural memory foam that had some of that cervical support in it. And I did sleep better now, from your perspective and the whole chiropractic field. would you advise people to not sleep on their belly because when you're on your belly, you're turning your head and your spinal cords basically twisted all night.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I'm not a fan of belly sleeping. Ideal sleeping is gonna be straight on your back with a nice good cervical support, that's going to be the most helpful because then that kind of maintains your cervical curve the whole time. If not what happens when you go flat, that curve has to flatten out and then that can create more disk pressure on the neck. So what happens when you go into flexion you start to have the disc pushes back towards the posterior nerve root. 

Evan Brand: Explain that to people briefly because people when they get lectured on posture, They think that you're supposed to just be straight up and down like a stick. And that's not actually how the cervical spine works, right?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. So imagine so people that are listening, I'm going to do my best to describe it. If you're watching on YouTube, you'll see the YouTube link. I'll be giving you an analogy physically. So imagine my green celery juice here, imagine that's like a big bar soap, right? So I'm holding that bar soap like this, and I gently cup my top hand on top of it, and I equal pressure like this and I'm pressing down, I'm going to have good support of that bar. So pretend it's a bar soap. Now if I start to wedge it and push more here, at the front of that bar soap, that's going to start to squeeze it out to one side, so that the bar soap analogy, this is like the disc in between the two vertebrae, okay, until there's a natural cervical curve, it's their spine is not set up to be straight. So when you go lay flat, you're actually putting even though your neck looks straight, you're actually starting to put your neck into flexion you're starting to move your head forward a little bit. Which then is the equivalent of taking this bar soap here and we're starting to push it from the front. And that's squirting that disc out and it can start to irritate the nerve roots. And then when those nerve roots get irritated, you get inflammation that can shut down some of the deep cervical flexor stabilization, the scalenes, the SEM trapezius muscles, a lot of times the muscles in the back get tight. And then we don't have good stabilizers of that neck and then we have a lot of pain and inflammation and you can develop adhesions. So just having poor posture at night with not enough good support, that can create a lot of disk inflammation and a lot of muscle pain when those muscles aren't working properly. It's like having your natural shock absorbers turned off. It's like going into your car, and then all the suspension and the shocks are gone. So every little bump, you totally feel it.

Evan Brand: Yeah. And when I was working out of a chiropractor's office, I was looking at x rays all the time and this is not a real problem. I would say 95, 98% of people we looked at they basically had lost that, that cervical shape. I mean, their neck was basically just straight, they had no curvature. So a lot of the work we were trying to do was, which it had limited success, because the people were not doing diet changes and other things. They were just going into a traction device or something else to try to restore that, that that curvature and it. Maybe it worked 50 50 I think it just, it was not a root cause clinic that I was working out of. So I think we missed the boat on a lot of things.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% I'm going to share here, the TempurPedic website here so you guys can see it. Can you see it here and haven't yet we see it? Yeah, so I like the TempurPedic neck pillow. I have this one. This works. Excellent. And then the other pillow that I like I think is this Symphony right here. And this one's excellent because you have this little curve in the middle which provides good neck support. And then when you turn sideways, it increases up just a little bit which allows you to go on your neck as soon as you go sideways. You need a little bit more. Because when you're your neck, if you rely on the same support while you're on your back, your heads gonna dip in, and then you're going to get shoulder pain. So you know your head to be still relatively neutral when you are sleeping. And so that's where I like the symphony pillow because it provides you the versatility, you can still get that support with the neck pillow as well, you just have to make sure you get it just a little bit bigger, maybe an extra inch or so or I'm sorry, an extra couple of centimeters to provide the support. So you want maybe an extra centimeter or two for your neck. That way when you go to your side, it will compensate. So yeah, so the neck pillow does do side and back. And the other one is the symphony. So those are my two favorite. I tried them. I tried a lot of them. I have the cloud one. The cloud one just doesn't provide the same level of support. So those are my two fave. Hope that helps. 

Evan Brand: That's cool. Yeah, the one that I ended up getting was one that came with my bed frame. I ended up getting this like no voc, solid wood bed frame. It was a company that was called savvy rest and they just make They do like a shredded latex pillow. They do a wool latex pillow blend they have an organic latex contour pillow. I guess that'd be kind of the, the the crunchy version of the TempurPedic. But, but they've done well for me. What about body pillows? Do you ever use those at all like to try to put something in between your knees? 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You could do that it really depends that your next step if you're having a little bit of shoulder pain is you put a little pillow between your knees just to give you a little bit more support on your hips. That may matter more if you're a female just because the hips are a little bit wider. And so then those knees go in a lot more which can create a lot of hip shearing at the hips and then maybe a pillow there will be good between the knees. Body pillows are great if you're pregnant. Somebody said yeah, nice body pillow so when she was pregnant just give you that little bit of more support because you're having to lie a little bit more on the side at least 15 degrees more. So having a little bit more support does help and a body pillow can be helpful. And then also there's another pillow called the Medcline pillow which is really good. So if you're you're a side sleeper and you have a lot of shoulder issues The Medcline is nice because it allows your your arm to go underneath the pillow, which is kind of cool. And we'll put some links to these pillows. Find some Amazon links we'll put below that way you guys aren't having to hunt everything down make it a lot easier for you to find it all.

Evan Brand: Cool. All right, so welcome to the pillow, the pillow podcast.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and then again like sleep is really important. So the pillow and then obviously the mattress is really big. I'm a big fan of TempurPedic mattress. There's also one that's pretty good that you've tried the Zen haven one which is a really good hypoallergenic version. That's more-

Evan Brand: I return that one. I returned. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You didn't like it? 

Evan Brand: No.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Some people that have liked it. I've had some patients that have liked it. It's very hypoallergenic. A lot of people that have had mold have gotten that one and done well with it. What What do you like now?

Evan Brand: Yeah, the one I've settled on now is called plush beds is the company and it's called a botanical bliss. And it is a organic cotton like super thick organic cotton exterior and then it is three layers of latex which comes from a rubber tree. You've got like synthetic rubber and then you've got latex tree rubber. And it's been pretty darn awesome. You can pick like your firmness, medium, firm or more firm. You could pick the height of the layers. And I tell you man, compared to the sameena bed, I spent 10,000 bucks on that semina bed-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That's expensive. 

Evan Brand: And it was not worth it at all. And this other plush bed setup cost me about 2000 bucks. And I sleep way better.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and one of my Airbnb properties that I have, I put another bed in there that it's called a Simmons beauty rest. That one works phenomenal. That one is very comfortable. It's under $1,000. If you're worried about any off gassing, you can always get like a really nice, airtight kind of mattress pad over it. If you want to be on top of that, but I mean the Simmons beauty rest I mean, I've slept in it many times and it is very, very comfortable.

Evan Brand: Yeah, I guess it depends on your budget, right? Like if you want to go to the two grand closer to maybe three grand depending on the size of matters. I'm telling you that botanical bliss is amazing it's like greenguard Gold certified so there's no VOC's, it's organic wool and latex and cotton. I mean it It didn't smell at all except like latex, which latex doesn't mess anybody up so I'm not affiliated with them. I would like to be affiliated with them but I don't think they have an affiliate program but anyway, it's a good it's a good mattress.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And so with joint issues, it's really important. I cannot understate how important a good mattress and a good neck pillow is so we talked about pillows, the more expensive side TempurPedic the plush one right two to 4000 range and then you have the cheaper one which I like the Simmons Beautyrest very good night's sleep under 1000 bucks. So those are my two there. Let's go into more metabolic stuff. So with your issue on the neck, okay, now you have some joint pain. Well, number one metabolically your diets great. You have a good omega three to omega six ratio meaning the healthy anti inflammatory omega three fats are relatively in check with the more pro inflammatory omega Six fats, you know, we want to be one to one or at least four to one, meaning four times omega six to one time omega three, that's gonna be pretty good. That's really helpful to me a lot of the refined grains and processed vegetable oils that are going to be overly high and those omega sixes and if you're doing lots of grain fed meat, you'll maybe higher in omega sixes as well. So good high quality animal products will really balanced that omega three to six out good high quality fish oil, cod liver oil, and and or animal products is going to really provide that good balance and that kind of sets the overall mill you up from a fatty acid standpoint, and then just keeping inflammation down via food. And that could be just a general paleo paleo template is adequate first step, meaning keeping up the grains maybe keeping out a lot of the conventional dairy the high casein dairy, right maybe the exceptions or buttering ghee, keeping out a lot of the refined sugar, right soft drinks, a lot of the processed sugar really is going to increase inflammation So from a food standpoint, metabolic standpoint, those are kind of first line approach to keep that inflammation in your body down.

Evan Brand: Yeah. And people listening may be like, well, that's the same thing. You always say paleo template and the answer is Yeah, that's exactly right. But we have to make sure that we state that because you could say that you go eat at Chipotle a and which I have done and if I go to Chipotle a I'll see a lady behind me in line. And she gets a burrito covered in so much case. Oh, you can't even see the meat. It's literally just rice case. Oh, and then a little sprinkle of chicken. It's like, Ah, that's not good. So now does it taste good? Yeah, cases delicious. But is it going to be good for your joint pain or inflammation? Definitely not.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and there's gonna be hundreds of new listeners coming in every week. So we kind of have to be a little bit redundant so people can kind of come in and grab that initial Foundation, wherever they're at in their journey. So there's gonna be some redundancy there. Also, sometimes that's not enough some people who have autoimmunity right sometimes these pains could be even have autoimmune origin where there's some kind of a fire myalgia chronic fatigue thing, and a lot of the pain is indiscriminate. It's just randomly in different spots throughout the body, right it's called central allodynia where the pain is more neurological not because you slept on your neck wrong, but just because this the inflammation and the autoimmunity is so high everything is inflamed without without a known etiology. So there's more of a central allodynia neurological autoimmune based pain and sometimes an autoimmune templates even more important, where nightshades may be a problem the alpha Sony's in the Nazis are the alpha zonings, and the tomatoes, potatoes, eggplants, and peppers, which are the nightshades or even the sensitivity to any plant foods or even even the butter or ghee or eggs or knots that may be enough to throw them over the top. So sometimes the diet has to be even more restrictive.

Evan Brand: Yeah, and it's not necessarily forever. Some people may get down and they're like, Okay, I'm eating you know, 10 foods is a super boring but sometimes that's required and then of course, the whole time we're working backwards. You're working with us to get to the root causes. So if it's a mold issue or Lyme, you know, Lyme is something or mycoplasma, you could have all these different joint pains and you think it's something in your diet, but, you know, my wife about been five years ago now, she had major joint pain and we couldn't figure it out her diet. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: She saw me, right. Remember, you came, you know, like, hey, she's got all these joint issues. I'm like, Is there anything that you could and then we ran a test for mycoplasma, and it came back positive, we started doing natural treatments for mycoplasma and the joint pain got so much better. I couldn't believe it.

Evan Brand: Yeah, that MDL panel was a game changer. Like, hey, I've got this panel here. It's a bunch of different Lyme and co infections, but it also looks at some weird stuff that most people don't look at like mycoplasma. I knew nothing about mycoplasma at the time. And, you know, besides that, it was basically a bacteria that could cause different issues. I didn't know that it could literally cause you to have pain in every single joint at the same time. So we had done the fish oil, we did everything we could from the diet nutrition perspective, and she was still miserable. So it wasn't until we added it. Specific herbs like we added in astragalus and cat's claw, I believe those were our two miracle workers. And within a week or two, you know, she was basically cured. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So yeah, we did import a substitute. Didn't we? 

Evan Brand: I don't remember, but I would say yeah, those two. But yeah, I would just say I'm eternally grateful for you educating me on on that panel. And then of course, what would be the best solution to gain the upper hand on these things because your doctor down the road, they don't have a clue. They're not going to suggest mycoplasma, they're going to suggest a diagnosis of fibromyalgia and then you're going to get put on a prescription and Everyone misses the root cause I don't know why it's so revolutionary to say, find the root cause it seems very basic to me.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, exactly. And now the next thing that's going to be really important is the visceral somatic reflex. This is really important. Medicine likes to use a lot of big words when you break down the word it becomes a lot easier. So this row or this row, or this role means Oregon, somatic or somato means muscle and then reflex means reflux is the connection back and forth, okay? And so when there's pain or inflammation in the surrounding organs, those organs have a two lane highway of nerve roots that go to them. The nerve roots that go to those organs are also on the same two lane highway that go back to the muscles. In other words when there's inflammation in the organs, okay? It can create a sensory perception that reflexes back to the muscles. In other words, a woman on her period or leading up to her period, right, she may develop ovarian pain. Well, how's that pain gonna represent it could represent his lower back pain. Why? Because the ovaries are on that lower lumbar upper cervical, upper sacral nerve root plexus. And so you can see a lot of back pain or someone that has gallbladder issues. You may see shoulder pain or someone that has a heart attack, you're going to see left jaw pain and or arm pain. Someone that has appendicitis, lower right hip pain, right, or even people that have ulcerative colitis or a lot of joint issues. Sorry, all sort of colitis or a lot of gut issues, you may see a lot of chronic lower back pain. You even see it with kidney issues. What do you see with kidney pain or kidney infection, right? You see lower, you know, 12 l one, back pain, mid to mid lower back pain because of kidney issues. So you can see these inflammation in these organ systems can actually create a symptom of pain in the muscle area. So you have to know that it's really, really important. A good history will help, let's just say elucidate more of this. So the more we have an acute response to what's happening, slept on your neck wrong, exercising harder, fell down at a sporting event, right? We can kind of put the pieces to the puzzle together what the root cause was, the more chronic and insidious then we always look at the diet. Then we look at the organ muscle connection.

Evan Brand: Yeah, well said and I would throw adrenals in there too. I don't think you mentioned adrenals but we've seen a lot of people-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Same thing as the kidneys they sit right On top of the kidneys, but it's hard, it's hard to differentiate adrenal and kidney because they're so bloody closer, like right on top of each other. So yeah, we'd want to do an adrenal test to look at that. And I've seen that become an issue. Sorry.

Evan Brand: No, it's okay. So when you add in adaptogenic herbs, sometimes the pain disappears, which is interesting, right? Because you would think, okay, all this herb is doing is helping modulate their stress response, but all of a sudden, the pain is gone. So, yeah, I mean, I take Personally, I do adrenal support. I do kidney support, I do liver, I do gallbladder. I mean, I kind of support all the organs and it's, it's, it's easy, it's easy to do, and it's, you know, just good maintenance for your organs, right?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, adrenal issues are a double edged sword, right, because adrenals make a hormone called cortisol. Cortisol is a gluco corticosteroid. You break it down glucose, meaning blood sugar and energy, corticosteroids, stress and inflammation, your body's natural cortisone, prednisone, etc. The problem is, that is naturally anti inflammatory acutely, it will help with inflammation, but when it's chronic, the cortisol itself can The root cause of its inflammation, because it will start to break down tissue. And the more that tissue is broken down, you have more inflammation that results from that. So acutely cortisol is anti inflammatory, chronically can actually create more inflammation, it can weaken body structure and body tissue. Now putting the body in a weaker place to defend itself now predisposing, more pain in that area in the future. Well, we know that with cortisone injections, you ever got a cortisone injection, it may work once or twice the doctors like, Hey, we got to be careful because now it's going to start destroying the joint. Well, you could still have a similar level of destruction at the same level, right? Because we're not targeting it like an injection can. But you can create similar weakness in areas with hyper adrenal chronic cortisol issues.

Evan Brand: Wow. That's that's, you literally segue exactly into what I wanted you to talk about next was before we get into the functional strategies to chat about the conventional strategies for So can you tell us a little more about that. So people come in, they say, hey, my knee hurts, they get the cortisone injection, you're saying that you have a, a limited timeframe where that's going to work. So what happens after I don't know two or three knee injections, then what?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, they're going to just tell you, they can't do it. Right? They're going to tell you they just can't do it anymore. And they would probably move you to more of a ends N said non steroidal anti inflammatory that doesn't have all the cortisol effects they may give you. They may even go to an opiate where it's blocking the perception of pain in the brain. So one there go to a medication that's reducing the inflammation without the steroids, right. Number two, they're more than likely going to go to something that's going to decrease the perception of pain in the brain, but opiates have their own list of side effects and they're very addicting so that the last thing you ever want to go to, you're much better off going to see first line is a chiropractor, right, which is a doctor in chiropractic medicine. So chiropractic is really powerful because it helps move the joints good chiropractors, also To look at the joint above and below, because a lot of times when there's inflammation in the joint, if it's not acute from like a fall or like slipping on your neck bad, a lot of times there's instability above or below the joints. So you always want to look above and below. And then you also want to look at the soft tissue because soft tissue is your natural shock absorber and you want playability in your tissues, right. There's issues in the tissues where that soft tissue is not stabilizing you. It's like relying on beef jerky for your for your shocks versus the nice, soft, lush plush pillow. Right. So the more pliability there is the better absorption the less pliability think beef jerky it tears, it's not going to absorb.

Evan Brand: And you're not going to have that conversation with this person. They're probably just going to refer you over to a surgeon right for a potential knee replacement if it gets to that level of severity.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, once you get to that level, the chance of being on opiates and more of those medications is really bad, right you know, once you start getting on a lot of end sads Tylenol, those things are going to deplete clarify on as well. I mean, the peer reviewed literature is quite clear that you're going to have a massive depletion of glutathione you're going to increase tearing up your gut lining or liver stress and then now you increase other metabolic issues right. And then at the same time, once you get a surgery, you know, you're not you may not be fixing the root cause and that may create more need for opiates in the future. So you're much better off seeing a high quality chiropractor that's going to be looking above and below holistically that we'll also be looking at the soft tissue integrity. Some if you're going to see a medical doctor, you always want to see a chiropractor first, but then maybe seeing someone that does PRP injections or stem cell injections, maybe a better way to help accelerate the regeneration of that tissue is very powerful. My friend and colleague Garrett saltpeter. Over at New fit in Austin, he has a great technology called the newbie, and we're having him on the show in the next four weeks. We'll put his info and link below. He is a great technology that uses bioelectricity in a harmonious frequency that helps stimulate blood flow, increase oxygen in-city and helps improve muscle stabilization. that technology is phenomenal because it doesn't have really any side effects outside of maybe a little bit of soreness. And it's working partly at fixing the root issue and when you combine it with adjusting in soft tissue support, and maybe even stem cells for more severe damage, it's really a winning team.

Evan Brand: Yeah, that that was what I was gonna ask you because I thought you did a podcast on either prolotherapy or stem cells. So would that be a next potential option if you're running out of options with your let's say your cortisone shots don't work anymore. You're saying prolotherapy and or stem cell would be possibly-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: The line, first line of therapy is number one is a chiropractor in good high quality soft tissue and soft tissue being in the myofascial release ART. And then supplementing that which is still in the same foundational level for me is is using the newbie or some kind of bioelectric device that harmonizes with the body that will help accelerate Right healing that's foundational. And then depending on what kind of damage is there, then we may add in stem cell or PRP injections or prolotherapy. I think stem cells is probably going to be the best just because it's using your own tissue where PRP is going to be using platelet rich plasma which may be from your own tissue as well still better, and then the prolotherapy we'll be using like a D mannose, or like some kind of a sugar solution to stimulate internal healing. So I like stem cells first, which it may come from, a lot of times they'll get it from umbilical cord or they'll get it from your own fat tissue, or then or they'll spin out the fat as well and get the PRP from that as well or they'll pull it from a joint right so it depends the different ways to do it. And then even beyond that are going to be we go even below that for foundation is going to be diet, right paleo template, maybe an autoimmune template, and then various different supplements which we can go into in a minute on that side of that, that kind of lay out that treat hierarchy.

Evan Brand: I believe so yeah, let's get into before we go into supplements, let's go into just a couple of things we're going to be looking at from a functional medicine testing perspective, things that we may see red flags on that would help clue us in. So specifically, I'm thinking about just infections as a whole. We talked about mycoplasma already. So we're probably going to be looking at possibly virus, bacteria, parasites, Candida, I mean, there's a lot of different gut infections, and then systemic infections that could be huge. I mentioned Lyme briefly. So if you have migrating joint pain, specifically, that may clue us into something like borrelia. So you may need to get a full, you know, Lyme tick borne co infection panel, a viral panel, a bacteria, parasitic panel, and then gut infections can can play a role too. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So in general, anytime there's some type of gut inflammation that can easily emanate, especially if the history is a chronic history for pain. The gut always has to be ruled out, okay. The adrenals have to be ruled out. Another reason why the gut could be a problem is guess where all the nutrients to build back up your tissue and cartilage comes from right all comes from your gut all of the amino acids, right? The collagen, amino acids, the proline, the hydroxyproline, the glycine, all these expensive tissues that are a vascular, like connective tissue like cardiac cartilage, tendons, ligaments, these tissues are a vascular mean they don't have a great deal of blood supply. That's why using some of these technologies may accelerate the healing when there's damage done to a vascular tissues, tissues like muscles, they're more vascular, they heal faster. So like your issue with your neck is probably a muscular issue. it'll heal a lot faster than if you had a whiplash injury from a car accident that may take six to eight weeks. So that's why it's important to understand the history of it, because that can guide us into how long things may take to heal. But when it's chronic like that, all those nutrients from the gut have to get absorbed there and of course, things like omega three Fatty Acids maybe use supplementally. We may use things like systemic enzymes lambreaux kinase or peptidase, which will be taken away from food to help digest inflammatory mediators and cytokines. We may also use things like lipids omo curcumin, I have a product called curcumin supreme its life is omo. Why is that better? Because about 15% of curcumin is absorbed in a powder form. So when you like zomo it you get about a six to eight times increase in absorption. So you know this because you take it you have to absorb it, assimilate it and utilize it. So a light bulb can be very helpful for that. Other things could be boswellia, slash frankincense, topical or internal CBD can also be used. And I would even say white willow bark, which is the main constituent of aspirin, which is a pseudo acetic acid. Or, yeah, I see it as salicylic acid. That's basically your aspirin and that's going to be your white willow bark. So we can do that at high doses too. Do you want to add some more?

Evan Brand: Yes list. Do I do so California poppy could be great. Like, let's say you don't want to go on an opiate, California poppy could be something I mean it you know, it technically is in the, that's they can make opium from California Poppy, right so you can do t shirt versions of that. And I'm a big fan of trying to implement some of the herbal muscle relaxers to so like valerian root could be used. Common meal could be used passionflower could be great lemon balm. So magnesium extra magnesium can be helpful. So I think integrating some of the stuff that Justin's mentioned, with the systemic enzymes and the anti inflammatories like your boswellia maybe some ginger thrown into and then you combine it with some herbal relaxers like your passionflower your Valerian motherboard may be helpful although that's typically more nervous system related topical magnesium like we've played with some magnesium creams and magnesium gels and stuff before. Float tanks like Epsom salt baths on steroids, those are flotation tanks. Those can be huge one Hundred percent. I mean, this is a hell of a protocol. And then at the same time, of course, we're running the functional medicine testing because like Justin mentioned, okay, let's say you're doing like, Oh, I found this fancy organic bone broth protein powder. It's like, Okay, great, but you've got H.Pylori you've got no stomach acid to even digest and do anything with those amino acids you're getting. So you you, we can give you these band aids we just mentioned but then it's always working backwards to fix what led to the digestive disruption, which led to the inflammation from the malabsorption in the first place.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% I hundred percent agree with that. And you mentioned magnesium. You mentioned kind of natural muscle relaxers that can be helpful. And then of course, there's other topical things we can incorporate like laser cold laser therapy, there's certain frequencies that can be very helpful for that. And also red light. I have a Juve light right Juve is awesome because it has the red light therapy which is more superficial, but it also has the near infrared setting on there which will Allow deeper penetration for inflammation reduction, and you can just, you know, stand four to six minutes away and get about 10, sorry, four to six inches away and get about 10 to 15 minutes of treatment on that, and that's going to be phenomenal to help that inflammation. The Juve is amazing. And you can go to and get access to that.

Evan Brand: Cool, I'm just-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:, red light, we'll put the link below so if you guys want to look for some of the things we're talking about, you'll have access to it below.

Evan Brand: Okay, yeah, I went into the sauna the other day, I've got the near infrared bulbs inside of my sauna as well. So I kind of turned around and and let those lights hit my neck and hit my back and I can't say it was a magic cure. right but it but it definitely helped them you know, I did do a 90 minute massage as well and, and that was helpful, but some things they just have to just to work out of your system. You know what I mean? So my case is more of just a weird one off situation but in a more chronic situation. Yeah, I think all these other tools would be helpful. And and then of course you always have to Have a plan of what's next meaning, okay, take the magnesium. But then what? Because that's not just the only thing dysfunctioning there's probably a whole system's approach that you need to look at. And that's what we love doing. We love finding and getting all the puzzle pieces laid out in front of you. So if you're somebody who is struggling, you've been through the conventional orthopedic route, you've done the cortisone shots. Maybe it's the migrating pain, you haven't thought about how your pain starts in the morning and your left elbow and by the end of the day, it's in your right knee, I mean, these are things you need to look at. So if you need help clinically, that's what Justin and I are here for and we can achieve all of this virtually there's no need for an office visit with the type of labs we're talking about, for example, that Michael plasma thing that we did on my wife, you know, Justin wrote up the requisition form, send it to my email, I print it out we go to the lab, get the blood draw, you go home, you get the answers, you get the protocol done over the phone is easy. So there's really no limit to what we can do. We live in a great time right now with you know, with very practises being able to help so many people in such a deep way 100% man I totally agree and we're on the same page and there's a lot of options out there today which is amazing you know, it's not just go to your doctor take these medications, they may have side effects and then they also ignore the root cause now we actually have information out there that really gives people a chance to choose you know, what's the best option for them and also they are educated behind it they're making a more informed decision which is great. Yeah, so if you want to reach out clinically and if you have any other notes Please give them to us but if you want to reach out clinically you can reach Justin at That's Dr. J., If you want to reach out to me, the website is And either way, we don't care who you pick, we just care that you get better. So we hope this has been helpful. And then if you have comments, if you're watching on Justin's YouTube channel, please put comments questions, let us know what you want us to cover because we're always open and willing to change the game plan based on what you care about.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly and then access the red light which I been using for the last month or two. It's working amazing. We'll put the links below all the products that we're recommending that way you guys aren't having to dig around. These are things that we all personally use for ourselves and our family. So we don't want to recommend anything that we don't personally back so that's really important. And then Evan, you can reach out to Evan Brand, as well consultation worldwide hope you guys are enjoying the content if you are sharing is caring give it a blast, give it a thumbs up, head over to iTunes as well to help us out That's the little short link to get there. We appreciate your reviews and your feedback. Hey, Evan, it was phenomenal chat man. You have an awesome day. 

Evan Brand: You take care. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Take care. Bye now. 

Evan Brand:   Bye bye.


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