Mold and Mycotoxins | Podcast #212

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“You don't just magically become sensitive to smells, you become sensitive to smells after you get exposed to mold” – Evan Brand.

In today’s podcast, Dr. Justin Marchegiani discusses Evan Brand’s personal journey on molds and mycotoxins. Listen and learn about byproducts of mold, aspergillus and penicillium, the bad things they produce that make one sick, ochratoxin and aflatoxin, the mycotoxins which are found on urine, and many other toxins that might cause cancer. Continue for more and don’t forget to share. Sharing is caring!

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

In this episode, we cover:

00:50    Evan's 8-Months Journey

03:56    ImmunoLytics Lab Testing

12:37    Where are they Coming From?

20:12    Mold Disinfectants

21:52    Compounds to Help on Detoxification


Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey there it's Dr. Justin Marchegiani. Welcome back to the podcast, I got Evan Brand here today. We're gonna be talking about mold, mycotoxins and Evan's personal journey through this- through this topic live. So, let's dig in. Evan, how we doing today?

Evan Brand: I'm pretty good.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: [Crosstalk]

Evan Brand: So, if people can see, I'm in a hotel right now.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: [Crosstalk]

Evan Brand: Yeah, in my portable office.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Sorry about that, we got a little delay in the bandwidth. For listeners here, we have uh… Evan on video as well, and we also have uhm- on iTunes, so if you wanna watch the video, feel free to click below and- and subscribe to the YouTube channel so you can see us in the flash. So, yeah, Evan, you're in the hotel you mentioned. You're in the process of- of getting your house remediated. I'm gonna just give you the floor for a few minutes here. Just to kinda walk everyone through your story of the last months so to speak.

Evan Brand: Yeah, well, really. It's like a seven or 8- 8 months story. Uh, you know, I started having some blood pressure issues back in July, and you and I were talking about it. We had talked about doing adrenal support and testing. We were looking at the gut, we were looking for infections and fixing all that stuff. And then all of a sudden, the blood pressure issue still remain and so, you know, I- I just now got the answer within the last month, and it was mold and it was about toxin problem the whole time, which would explain why did all these other body systems like we do in our functional medicine approach but it still wasn't enough. And that's because I have ochratoxin in my urine which is a mycotoxin. What are mycotoxins? They're the byproducts of mold. So, aspergillus and penicillium, those are bad, but it's the mycotoxins they produce that make you sick. And so, when we test our clients for the urine, and we're looking for mycotoxins, we're looking for stuff like ochratoxin and aflatoxin. And, my ochratoxin is off the charts. The reference range is 4 to 20, and my levels are a hundred and 96. And I talked with Dr. Shaw at the laboratory, and he said it's one of the highest levels he's ever seen, which I hate to break any record for something that bad because it's very toxic to the kidneys, it's a known carcinogen, it does cause cancer. So, hopefully we caught this early enough that my cancer risk is gonna be low because I'm working on getting it out.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And we also talked about this as well. The fact that you are moving, it's also a good thing because if you weren't removing it and you are being exposed to all of that, that means all that stuff trapped in your body. So, even though your detoxification systems under stress and processing it, it's at least processing it though, right?

Evan Brand: Yeah, er- yeah, I mean, I think I probably have the gene, I'm not gonna waste the money to test if I have a genetic problem with detoxing mold, but I did do some glutathione before with the test, so I don't know if my levels are very high because the glutathione pushed it out or if that means I'm truly just detoxing. And let's just hope that it's a combination of both.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well the glutathione’s pushing it out and that means, you know, we should continue to keep you on the moderate dose of glutathione. Is that in your current protocol now for detoxification?

Evan Brand: I'm taking a few days off. Uh, you and I we're kinda talking about it…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -Mm-hmm.

Evan Brand: …both the weekend. The hard part is…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -Mm-hmm.

Evan Brand: …with the detoxification of mycotoxins, you gotta be careful because, you know, it makes you really sensitive to stuff, and I noticed that I don't sleep like at all. Like I'll just stare with the ceiling all night if I pushed detox too hard. So, right now, I'm taking two days off [crosstalk].

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. It's probably whipping up the adrenals and maybe just creating too much of a stress response. So it's good to really to know that. I know we talked last week, you're like, “Hey I'm doing this dose of this, this dose of this, this is where I'm at” and like, and we noticed that as you titrate up, it- you know we're kind of be a delay in your ability to see if you could tolerate that dose. So, I know, we chatted and like, “Hey, instead of going, you know, every day increasing, let's go every 3 or 4 days”. And I think once we did that, we were able to calibrate your dose so you wouldn't detoxify too fast.

Evan Brand: Yeah, it's a pain like I don't wanna go that slow because I wanna get this out of my system.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -Right.

Evan Brand: And, you know, I'm a- I'm kind of stubborn, like I wanna just detox this and get it to- get it over with, but you can't man, you have to go slow and that- and that's a hard lesson for me to learn.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I hundred percent agree. So, let's start off here. First off, we did some testing, right? We did some of the ImmunoLytics lab testing on your house to kind of assess your mold level. So, we first found that your levels is to the roof. And then, let's kind of go in to what some of the vectors were like, where in the house did, we see some of these issues. Go ahead.

Evan Brand: Yeah, so the living room showed up with a high amount of candida, which is an interesting because if someone treats their guts for candida but they don't treat their environment for candida, you're actually breathe a candida in, and it'll recolonize the gut. Now I've got a whole podcast on this coming soon with JW from ImmunoLytics to explain this further, but the long story short is that, candida in the environment can colonize the gut. So, if you do a candida protocol with supplements which is what you and I do all day every day with our clients, we've gotta fix their houses too. So, this- unfortunately as another layer of complexity, because the pets can have candida too. That's a very big vector is pets. So, there is this special type of pet shampoo that we're using on our dogs to clean her to get the mold off of her, and it's by a company called Citrusafe. And that's a…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -Oh.

Evan Brand: …and they have this special shampoo…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -Mm-hmm.

Evan Brand: …that's been shown to get all the mycotoxins and the candida off because here's the problem, if you move to a new environment like I'm doing but you bring your dog with you, that dog can just cross-contaminate your home- your new home.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Evan Brand: And so, people like, “Oh I don't bring my possessions”, but you brought your dog. So, we have to address that, we've got a special mold solution that we're using to wash all of our laundry, our clothes, our blankets in, uh- and then we're probably just gotta be ditching some personal possessions. So, it's uh- it's unfortunate. But, you know, I'd rather have health and have like a nice or whatever. I can always buy new possessions.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. So, we ran the ImmunoLytics test. We saw a very high levels of various mold toxins. What type of mold specifically? You mentioned candida; so, was it the lo- literally the candida albicans or the candida krusei, what specific candida species, and what other mold species came back in that test?

Evan Brand: I don't think it shows the specific type. I believe they gave you a- they call the genus, which is basically the big group- [crosstalk]… Yeah, it does not say…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Just like ochratoxin, trichothecene, aflatoxin, I forget the big 4.

Evan Brand: All they is- is candida.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay.

Evan Brand: All they say is candida, doesn't which type. Uh then it shows like Cladosporium, microsporum, nocardia, ___[06:16], uh penicillium. So, some of these are new because these are not things that you and I are seeing on urine or stool testing. These are things that are only environmental. So, some of this is new for you and I. We're having to become experts at these because of my situation. Right. Uh, the plate testing does get a lot of flak- people talk a lot of- uh crap about it, I've got some push back on my Facebook page sharing this story and I've got some hate mail through email about people saying, “How dare you promote plate testing, duh-duh-duh-duh-duh… air testing is the best”. Look, here's the thing, plate testing is not the best, but for the cost, you get really bang for your bucks. So, yeah, just like in functional medicine, there are really good and then there's amazing test for the price in what we're getting. We're looking for the tip of the iceberg here, and that's what the plate testing provides.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent. And also, some of the remediation options that you're going under, they don't have to be super expensive, there are some essential oil, and some enzyme-based uhm- remediation that's on the cheaper side that can be done. And also, a couple things, is we also compared your urinary mold as well. So, that kinda helped, so we- we didn't just say, “Okay, let's just only go off of the plate, let's look at urinary mold that's excreted in the urine. And then, let's also look at how do you feel when you leave the house for a week or two. So, I know when you got in the hotel like in- in a better hotel room for a week or two and you worked there, you noticed you felt much better. And again, your stress didn't change, you were still working, you were still seeing patients, just the environment change. So that was one aspect too that we knew that when you change environments, we saw a big different symptomatically as well.

Evan Brand: Yeah, and we'll have to do a podcast. First of all, I've got a- I've got a just- uhm, learn more myself,  even speak more on this topic at an expert level 'cause I'm not there yet but, you know, they- there's something called Mast Cell Activation Syndrome, there was another one called CIRS, C-I-R-S, Chronic Inflammatory Response Syndrome where your bucket is just so full that you can react to everything, and I believe I'm having a combination of both of those things happening to me, because you and I chatted last week. I went to the grocery store, and uh- the pharmacist on staff at ImmunoLytics told me to stay out of grocery store for 3 months because of all the condensation from the refrigerators and the freezers at grocery stores contributes the high moisture, therefore moisture equals mold. And so, I went into this grocery, with my wife, and within 30 seconds in me walkin' in, I was so dizzy, I had to turn around. So, I am limited in where I can go. And it's uh… it's kind of a burden but it's really cool to be able to see 'cause Dave Asprey, he used to talk about how he could go into a building and say whether it was moldy in 30 seconds. And I was like, “Ugh! Really?”, like come on, you can tell me if there's mold in there, I believe him now because if I go to certain places, within a minute or two, I get dizzy and I'm like, “Ugh, I gotta get the hell out of here”. I- I went to target with my wife, this one target was really bad, we went to a different target, that target was perfectly fine. I had no dizziness. So, not all buildings are safe and not all buildings are dirty. So, it's uh- it's crazy, it really is.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And then we have some of the air testing that can be done which is the ERMI testing, which is too reasonable, I think that can be done well. And then we have the plate testing, and one thing is, you noticed in your office, where [clears throat] had a different air supply, and I think it was under a different roof so to speak. It showed very low on the mold test. So, that's at least the good thing where- it wasn't like your whole house. It was moldy, it was primarily your office, was it?

Evan Brand: Yeah, the upstairs, you know, we have one of those little hotel units in there, kind of like a- a separate heating and cooling unit up there? And it didn't have any of the ductworks. See, the ductwork was the problem. ‘Cause this return vent was sucking all the moldy air and just re-circulating it through the house, pumping it into our closet, getting all over our clothes, and I was wearing those moldy clothes and going up in my office. So, I was cross-contaminating my office with my clothing. But now we're doing this mold solution and I've also got a special uhm- shampoo and body wash I'm using. And that's helping too, like when we- went over to my grandmother's house, I got really dizzy. And so, when we came back from her house, I just change my clothes and I washed myself. Took a shower, and I felt better. My dizziness was gone within half an hour after the shower. So, these mycotoxins, they can stick to your skin, they can stick to your pet, they can stick to your hair follicles, so for me, that's more motivation for me to keep my haircut a bit shorter. ‘Cause if you have a long, big old afro of hair, there's a lot of room for mycotoxins to hide in your hair, and you put that on your pillow, and then you're breathing in mycotoxins as you sleep. So, no afrols for me.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it. And what was the name of the uh- the solution that you use to clean your pet, as well as your hair?

Evan Brand: Yeah that's the same company, Cit- Citrus-A.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Citrus-A.

Evan Brand: Yup, and uh- they have a- they call it like a bio balancing shampoo and body wash and they have a pet solution. And uh- uh- you know, I've got a- uh- practitioner account with them which you can get one too, and that way we can sell it to our clients which is great.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, that's good. Awesome. I'll make sure I'll get this on my site. Now you're using this for your laundry now and your detergent?

Evan Brand: Yeah, we've got the mold solution too for the laundry, so, we just do, I think it's a 1 ounce uh- serving of solution. You put it in the washer, and that's gonna take care of all the mycotoxins on the clothing, which is very-very important. You know, I've read some of these mold stories on the forums and these Facebook groups I've been part of. That- you know, people come home and they change their clothes. And I use to think that was extreme but I've actually felt the difference. When I come home from a moldy environment, I just put on a new set of clothes, and I feel better. So, this is not- you know, this is the unfortunate thing about mold is that, uh people get diagnosed as crazy and they get put on psych meds, and they're not crazy at all they've just got a multiple chemical sensitivity, mass cell activation problem going on, they're not crazy at all. They're just so sensitive and doctors don't understand this. So, they just label 'em as nuts and put them on under depressant. They're not nuts at all, trust me, I'm in the trenches right now with this carp and it makes you feel crazy but you're not.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well it's affecting your brain, right? So, obviously, mycotoxins and these mold toxins can affect your gut. They're gonna increase gut permeability, correct?

Evan Brand: Yeah, and they uh, create a leaky brain, too which is why…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -Great.

Evan Brand: …you have to clear out your sinuses. So, Citrus-A f- also makes another product I'm doing which is a nasal rinse with essential oils, because… uh, if your sinuses have mold in them, that's so close to the brain, it goes right through the blood brain barrier every time you breath.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. So, rinsing up the sinuses are important. And then also cleaning the pets, cleaning yourself as well. And then a couple other things. We were just on the topic of cleaning, shampoo, and so right now…

Evan Brand: -We talked about testing.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …testing, great. And then right now, let's kinda go into where the mold was coming from in your house. I think we saw, there was a vent in your attic, it was boarded off incorrectly, and there was also a water leak behind your cabinet. Let's go into where the vectors in your house, where the mold and, how's that being addressed?

Evan Brand: Yeah, so there was a faulty- what they call a seal cock valve down in the crawlspace which connects to the front spicket of the home. So, that had either froze or busted, or was leaky, or something which contributed to water in the crawlspace. And that water wants to evaporate back up into the sun to make clouds so that it can rain. So whatever water is, it wants to go up. So, guess what's between the crawlspace and the sky? My house. So, that water was evaporating from the crawlspace up through the subfloor, wi- just creating high humidity in the home. High-humidity equals mold. And so that's why we had- it wasn't a leak in the cabinets but there was mold in the cabinet, due to all the moisture coming up from down below. So that was part of the problem. And then as you mentioned the attic, that was contributing to mold down in the living area. So, for trying to point fingers here, we have to point fingers at both issues. From above and below, we have moisture problems.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting. Very interesting. So, you're on top of it. So, right now you're having the attic ventilation issues fixed, you're having the crawl space issue I think fixed as well and then you're in the process of everything getting remediated via an enzyme and/or essential oil method, correct?

Evan Brand: That's right. Yeah, we're probably gonna go at the essential oil blend 'cause it is a bit more cost-effective, it's about 2 or $3 I believe per square foot versus the enzyme blend is around $5 a square foot. So, it's a lot of money that can add up if you're doing the enzyme solution. And with some of the testing that we're doing, we're not really seeing that the enzyme blends are much more effective than the essential oil blends. And these are both alternative solutions, chemical solution is the primary treatment for like black diamonds and all these other generic mold killers, it's a bunch of crap. You don't wanna do that, it just pisses the mold off. You don't wanna do standard mold remediations, not safe. Bleach, all that stuff, bad news.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, right now, you're trying to do- uh you're favoring the enzymes over the essential oils, or you're leaning to-

Evan Brand: -No.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -the essential oil over enzymes?

Evan Brand: I- I'm leaning to the essential oils because I talked with JW at the lab…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -Yeah.

Evan Brand: …and he looked at before and after results using the enzyme, and it compared it to before and after using the essential oil blend, and determined the essential oil blend is just as good, if not, better, and it's…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -And it's cheaper.

Evan Brand: …half the price.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, I'm just curious, what happens to like the dead debris or the exoskeletons? I mean, does the essential oils just encapsulate all of it? There must be dead debris leftover. What happens to that? How does that get cleaned up?

Evan Brand: The best thing to do is to have a HEPA vacuum, which there's one called Miele, which…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -Yeah.

Evan Brand: …is one I just purchased…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -Yeah.

Evan Brand: …it's M-I-E-L-E.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, it's actually a…

Evan Brand: It's really cool.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, it's close enough. It- it's Swedish brand. M- Miele.

Evan Brand: Did I say it wrong?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -Okay.

Evan Brand: Miele?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: Okay.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I love 'em ___[15:26] it's awesome vacuum.

Evan Brand: Okay, but I didn't know you had it. Cool. So, so uh- so that is the one that was recommended by some of these mold experts. And it’s got a HEPA system on there and it's a close HEPA with a bag. ‘Cause some HEPA systems are bagless, and when you suckle that debris up on the floor, you just pump it back out into the air. So, because it's a closed system, that's the highest recommended one. To come in after the- the fogging job has been done, you come in and do the- the HEPA vacuum on everything and then at that point, you should be in the clear. But for me being so sensitive, I'm probably not gonna take all my- my physical possessions. I'm gonna be super careful about what I bring with me.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: Even computers. Here's the bad thing, a lot of people are saying like this laptop I'm talking to you on right now, people are saying I should be getting rid of this laptop because the mold is inside of the- uh fan and that- when the fan kicks on, it's gonna pump the spores back out. So, I tried to do this mold solution, and spray it into the computer and use an air duster like compressed air, and that's supposed to help, but I- I- I- I'm not sure yet, I haven't- you know, noticed feeling significantly worse when using the computer, so I'm just trying to gauge…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: …whether I can keep this.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I would think you could spray one side and put the- put the Miele vacuum on the other.

Evan Brand: That'd be cool.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You know, force it all the one direction, I- I would imagine that be helpful because I mean, you're gonna pull a lot of that mold out with that vacuum.

Evan Brand: That's a good idea, I should try that, I haven't done that yet.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You know, if you can just control one site, 'cause it's gotta be vents on both sides. I think you have a Mac, right? So, use control on one side…

Evan Brand: Yeah, the on this- on- on this Mac, the vents are just right where I can feel it. The fans are on right now. Uh, the fan is right where the screen connects to the keyboard, right in this little V in the 90-degree angle, that's where the fan vents are, so I need to shut it- [sips], just suck it up and hopefully it works.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, I'll just open the thing up and then just vacuum it up that way. And then…

Evan Brand: Yeah, I mean I could, there's like these weird proprietary screws on here. If I could…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh yeah.

Evan Brand: …unscrew the thing and then…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -Yeah.

Evan Brand: …vacuum it out, that'd be great.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Okay, that's cool. And so right now, so you were saying, ugh! I missed that last part again, so- oh yeah, you- we just said that- the HEPA filter will be kind of the best way to- to get it up and get it to closed loop, it's not gonna pull the mold back out like a lot of other vacuums made.

Evan Brand: Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: [Crosstalk]

Evan Brand: Yeah, so that's the end- that's like the- the- the, and you know, kinda like the functional medicine order of operations, that's kind of the order operations. Last step, suckle the crap out that you pulled out the sky.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You know, a lot people are asking, well, we know that you're- you're moving as well. Now, you're not moving strictly because of the mold, right?

Evan Brand: No, I mean, you know, you've been telling me, “Hey, Evan, your house is gonna be too small when you have 2 kids”, and I'm like, “dang it”, it, because, you know, our house, we've built it too small. It was a 1600 square foot house. We just built it too small thinking…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: …”oh we're minimalist, we don't need any room”, but, with the home office and with 2 kids running around, it's gonna be a bit crazy. So, I'm kinda using this mold thing as the final straw for me to say, “Hey, I should have listened to Justin and built the bigger house, but now I'm just gonna have to purchase a bigger house.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And which is great too, because you got that house all remediated for the next person that comes in. So, they're gonna have a great- uhm- living situation as well. I know a lot people, they're kinda like under the wraps, they kinda like, “Okay, you know, I'm not gonna remediate” and they just kind of move on, they let it slide under the radar, so it's good that you got this house all cleaned up too, that's great.

Evan Brand: Yeah. I- I couldn't sleep at night if I would just try to do that. I've heard a lot of airbnb, people, the reason they put their houses on airbnb, according to this mold experts is 'cause the house is too moldy and they don't have the money or the interest in remediating the home to sell it, so they just put it on airbnb instead. ‘Cause they don't like airbnb is gonna say, “Hey do you have mold in your house? Yes or No. Yes, you do, oh, okay, you can't rent it.”. So, all these people, on these mold forums and Facebook groups, they talkin' out how they can't go to airbnb's because so many of them are contaminated by people trying to pull fast, wanna make money on the moldy house which is just totally, just freaking wrong. But that's society, so, wha- what can we do?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah a- and again, there's a significant percent of the population that does not gonna react, like, “I- I don't really…

Evan Brand: That's true.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …react to these issues”. So, I mean, you know, as long as it's not something that's visible, right? Like black molds…

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …in the bathroom or something like that, you know, most people are probably gonna be okay. But, you know, like someone like yourself or David Asprey, you gonna just have to be more choosy in where you stay, for sure.

Evan Brand: Yea- yeah, and tend to be clear that we didn't see any visible mold but I also ha- wasn't a trained eye. So, after the mold experts came in and showed me what I was looking at, I did see it. It was just a white fuzzy looking stuff in our ca- in our cabinet. I mean, it just looks like dust. But it wasn't dust, it was millions and millions and millions of spores. But it wasn't like, “Oh my God, black mold”, no. This was just a l- a light dusting of snowflakes. It's kinda what it looked like.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. And then, did you have any smell, and a yeasty kind of smell or moldy kind of smell in your house at all?

Evan Brand: You know what, I didn't smell anything, but my wife said that when heat would kick on, she would smell some smell coming out of the vents. I never smelled it though so, maybe that was it, maybe that was something else.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay. And then just curious, what's your take on some of the- the mold disinfectants for like mildew in the bathroom? And do you have an issue with those?

Evan Brand: I think the enzyme solutions are gonna be a good…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That's better.

Evan Brand: …a good formula or the essential oil blends. There is a mold concentrate that you can use, and you take like a one cup and you turned it into like a gallon or something, you'd mix it with water and you can wipe materials down, put it in a spray bottle, you know, they've got tried into lab testing on that. So that is something that you and I are gonna have to start caring 'cause it's a great product and it's not too expensive.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I personally don't mind any of the mold and mildew stuff in the bathroom personally just because it's being sprayed, scrubbed, and then rinsed down, so it's not like it's sitting there, uhm- you know, later, where- I think the es- the benefit of the essential oil stuff is you could spray it, let it sink, you didn't have to worry about rinsing it 'cause it's non-toxic.

Evan Brand: Exactly, and you know, if s- somebody were very sensitive like me, I would probably just wear one of those 3M- N95 mask, those particulate mask-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: -those would be good enough to help if you- if you're concerned about you getting sick, try to clean some of the stuff. There's also another uh- filter you can get, it's a bigger respirator system called a PSM- uh- P100, and that's a type of filter that does filter out uh, mold spores. So, you can do that for safety if you had to.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting. And also, what's your take on the- the concrobium compound as well that does more of the encapsulation of the mold? Thoughts on that?

Evan Brand: I don't have a- I don't have clue about it, I can't speak on that. I don't- I- I'm not educated on it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I've seen it recommended by a few remediation specialists where it's just- it's really just designed to encapsulate the mold and- and prevent it in spreading and such.

Evan Brand: Oh, wow, no, I've got no idea-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: This one on toxic. Okay, well next time you get on the phone with JW, ask him about concrobium.

Evan Brand: I will.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent. And then, let's just talk briefly about a couple of the compounds, some of the ingredients that you're using- we're using right now to help you on the detoxification side. So, what- what are some of these actual compounds? What are they?

Evan Brand: Yeah, so conventional treatment is something called cholestyramine. Uh- I'm not using that, as a pharmaceutical they have another one called ___[22:11], I'm not using that either. Uh- I'm just doing a formula from beyond balance called tox-ease bind which is a blend of Shilajit and charcoal, and I'm actually feeling really good with that. I told you today and yesterday or the first days, thank the Lord, I'm actually not as dizzy as I have been for 6 to 7 months. I'm actually starting to get better with my dizziness. Now if I detox too fast, uhm- then I don't get a- the- then- if I detox too fast, I get more dizzy, if I detox uhm- slower, I'm less dizzy. So, so it's a balance. So, charcoal i- is one peice of the puzzle. Uhm Shilajit's another piece of the puzzle, and then in terms of, uh- antimicrobials, you and I both have our own custom blends of antimicrobial. So, I'm mixing and matching things, I won't mention exact specific protocols right now because this is all an experiment and I don't want somebody to hear this and thing, “Hey, Evan's protocol is the protocol I should do”, but let’s just say I'm doing anti-fungal herbs. So, some some of it include like olive leaf…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Chlove, right? [crosstalk]

Evan Brand: …I'm doing some chlove, I'm doing some ___[23:13], uh- I'm doing some French tarragon leaf, I am doing a little bit of oregano cycling on and off of it. But, I'm not gonna say a full protocol yet because maybe this isn't the right stuff. I'm still experimenting and rotating in a lot of things. So, I don't have like, here's the thing you should be doing on paper yet.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We do have some good binders though, right? We had some of the activated cur- charcoal, some of the- the minerals that you mentioned as well, and then also, you're still incorporating some of the- the- this modified citrus pectin as well?

Evan Brand: I have it, I've got it at home, uh- I would like to do some of the citrus pectins but I have it at the house and, I'm- you know, I'm in this hotel so I just haven't been taken that yet. But yeah, but that'd be another good solution. I do have some zeolite products as well, uh- those are also supposed to help in mycotoxins. I'm just not currently taking 'em.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: How about the glutathione too?

Evan Brand: Yeah, I'm doing glutathione. Yup, I'm off right now for a few days, but I have been on that consistently at about 3 to 600 milligrams per day.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool. So, I think just- if anyone's listening to this, and there's noticing some correlation, dizziness, and weird neurological symptoms, definitely, reach out to your functional medicine provider. If you don't have one reach out to me- myself or Evan and let's get your house tested. Let's potentially get you tested. Let's look at, you know, utilizing some detoxification protocols to help one the gut, to help one the nervous system, the immune system, and get some of these toxins out because once you have a leaky gut, you got a leaky brain, all of the inflammation that goes to the brain is gonna create neurological issues. Either mood, or brain fog, or just fatigue, or- or lethargy, and I think it's really important to kinda highlight the fact that, when you throw more androgens, which is a foreign compound, more stressors, you fill up that stress bucket, it's like my coffee mug where it can overflow. It's kinda like you walk around with a coffee mug and someone filled to the top, you're like, you gotta be like a little mummy as you walk around holding it versus if you fill it down here, you kinda have a little more wiggle room to move. And that's kinda with your situation right now with your bucket, right? You mentioned your stress bucket, that antigenic bucket is just so full, so, you add a little bit of mycotoxins in your house, it's like, boom, you're overflowing.

Evan Brand: Yeah, it's not fun. I wouldn't wish upon anyo- anybody. But it is a good experience. I mean, a lot of people, uhm, relate to you and I- because of how much suffering we've gone through. We've gone through issues of hashimoto's and gut infections, I've gone through gut infections, I've gone through candida, and now I'm going through mold. So, I guess at the end of the day, it will make uh- us better practitioners, for us to have to- we have to become experts on this because, there's only a few docs in the U.S. who the- we can’t even look up to, to learn this information. So, lot of this is really just an experiment and, uh- I am grateful for the opportunity to be able to have voices like we do to spread this information because there are so many people suffering. If you just google uhm- mold symptoms shoemaker, uh- Ritchie Shoemaker's got a list of about 39 different mold symptoms, anything from fatigue to ringing in the ears which I had, to diarrhea which I had, to insomnia, which I had, and my blood pressure problems, and cold hands cold feet. If your hands and feet are cold, that was me, that's also biotoxin problem. Multiple chemical sensitivity, fragrances, perfumes, charif sauce, that multiple chemical sensitivity is a byproduct of biotoxin exposure. You don't just magically become sensitive to smells, you become sensitive to smells after you get exposed to mold. And that's weird because my wife didn't used to be sensitive, now some nice perfume, she's like, “Oh, my God, they're perfume!”. She used to not be like that, and that's ‘cause she was living in the moldy house with me.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, one thing to highlight, a lot of these mold symptoms, we've talked about it- it's a rabbit hole of functional medicine, meaning, lots of people have other issues that aren't the primary- the mold is not their primary issue. Now just to be clear, you know, with yourself Evan, we dug deep and addressed lots of other issues. And we had you kinda at a place where you were stabilized until this mold exposure happened the last year. So the- the mold wasn't the- the chief issue years ago. It's a- it's a relatively new issue, but we had cleaned other issues out, leading up to this. So, it's important that everyone listening, work with your functional medicine provider to make sure you deal with all of the key-core adrenal, hormone, thyroid, gut, detox issues first, because so much of these mold symptoms if they are there, can improve just by dealing with the foundational tenets of functional medicine. Many people may not have to go to that extreme. With Evan, all that was already done, and then mold came later on when he moved into this house and have the leak and have the ventilation issue. But it was something that was addressed later, not before. Now again, why would we address it sooner and not later? If you move into a new house, and you noticed you start feeling bad. If you noticed that when you're leaving your house, for a week, you're out of your house for a week, uhm- business or whatever, you feel better. Then, we may wanna dive in and do some testing, but you still gotta deal with the foundations of functional medicine. You can't ignore that and just go to the ___[28:09], and they still don't get all the way better.

Evan Brand: Yes, same with lyme disease, and I'm so glad you brought that point up, you know, this conversation you and I are having today is a culmination of 5-plus years of personal work on me. I've been in the trenches fixing everything else for a long time, now I'm approaching mold versus somebody just now hearing this conversation. You can't go from a standard american diet, tons of gut infections, bad sleep, you're on your smartphone at 1:00AM, you're working night shift, you feel like crap, you're just gonna go straight to mold, you're probably not gonna win. You gotta do the other foundations first, but that never gets old to hear that refreshing message again.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% man. So, anyone listening to this and they're- they're not quite sure where to go, make sure you go- head over to, or and schedule a consult with myself and or Evan so we can dive in deeper, and come up with a strategy plan for you. Also make sure you subscribe to the podcast. Make sure you subscribe to the YouTube channel so you can kinda chime in here live with us, and also uhm- potentially get some of your questions answered with some of the live Q&As we do throughout the week. So, make sure you subscribe, give us the thumbs up, hit the bell that allows notifications so you know when our contents coming up, subscribing's not enough, you gotta hit the bell as well which is next to the subscribe button. And uh- give us a review on iTunes, we appreciate it, and then, and how would they go to your iTunes page, Evan?

Evan Brand: I believe it's uh- as well…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, good.

Evan Brand: …but let me confirm…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Perfect.

Evan Brand: Let me confirm here. We've got, let's see here… If you just google evanbrand iTunes, it'll pop up. I don't have that link set up to evanbrand.iT- .com/iTunes, won't work. Just evanbrand iTunes and find us. You know, between us both, we've got over 60,000 people subscribed on YouTube channels, uh- hundreds and hundreds of reviews on iTunes, but it's still not enough because this information is not mainstream. You go down the street and talk to some random guy on the street corner about mycotoxins, he's got no clue what you're talking about, so Justin and I, you know, yeah, we make it a little bit of ego boost if we say, “Oh, 50,000 subscribers”, but that still a drop of- that's still a drop in the bucket. We have millions and millions and more people to help with this issue. This is a very underdiagnosed and under-appreciated problem in the modern healthcare industry.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, we appreciate it. Give us the share, give us the thumbs-up and the like. I'll be back later on this week for a more live Q&A, so make sure you checked in here with me. And you guys have a phenomenal day, we'll talk real soon. Take care.

Evan Brand: Take care. See you, bye.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Bye.


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