How to Address and Test for Mold in your Home with JW Biava | Podcast #251

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Mold is a common bacteria found in our homes where we spend most of the time resting. If left untreated, mold can cause different illnesses for you and your family.

In this podcast, Dr. Justin and JW Biava talk about mold, how we test it in our homes, and what we do about it. Read below for more info.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

In this episode, we cover:

01:10 What to do when there’s mold

02:35 Urmi testing

13:57 Humidity factors

22:30 Toxic species of mold

49:40 Mold stressors


Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And we are live. it's Dr. J here in the house really excited. Today's topic is going to be all on mold addressing it and testing it to see if you have toxic mold in your home and we have the CEO and head of Immunolytics lab, which of The Cutting Edge Cutting Edge mold detection lab out of New Mexico. And JW is the founder here. We have JW welcome to the show. 

JW Biava: Thanks. Dr. J. Go to be here 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: hey same here. So let's dive in because I had personal mold issues in my house and I was able to reach out to you and you helped me and then I was seeing a lot of patients over time. That was Heather just a lot of mold symptoms and it becomes difficult because one how to get tested number two how do you fix the root cause of the mold in the home in typical mold remediation techniques have been really really expensive and your lab and you kind of working with Jeff over at citrusafe have really kind of one have really good testing. that's that's really good entry-level to assess what's going on and then more techniques to remediate it and it more costly. 

JW Biava: Sure will let you know. Where do we start at right that the best solution for everybody is to do everything right have an environmental inspector come out and inspect the property look for moisture hidden mold and collect a bunch of samples aero samples swab samples, maybe inner me but nobody can afford that right. That means you get two to three thousand dollars. So what's the best alternative that people can afford and that's kind of where we try to come in. So we use the gravity plates, which is just a one-hour settling play to collect air samples throughout the house, you know, they run around $33 piece. So you can test numerous areas of your home get kind of a statistical analysis of your home a good representation of all the rooms and then use the same place to do tap testing where your testing fabric material weather clothing or Furniture carpeting to really try and help you identify. Is there a problem and if so, what are the potential sources so that way The tap testing with the place that you put a plate in the palm of your hand and you tap testing item four times. And so any of those mold spores a fly onto the plate and we can see if that's potentially affect your health your health. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s great.

JW Biava: You got that very chair you sit in every night and you're like, you know what I just don't quite feel well or I feel real tired when I sit in it, you test that chair see what's in it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: that's great. And how does what's the price of the Urmi testing?

JW Biava: Urmi typically runs 125 175 depending on the lab using sun go as high as 225 protest. So you're you're looking at one sample for anywhere between say 150 in 225.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I did some generalized air sample testing in my house. When I knew I had visible mold we talked about it was right there and we it was some kind of a green or mold at go to aspergillus family and we sent the swap writes your lab and you guys picked up but they are testing didn't come back elevated it all and then after we actually remediated and we did air samples again, it actually came back a slight bit higher, but it was still negative anyway, so that always perplexed me but we did the playtesting to start and in the room of the house where the most visible without the chart. I was like, you know, I think it in your lab is greater than 5 is considered to be an elevation of mold and we were at 18 or 19 and it was definitely more of the water the water base mold and so on remediation and we retested it was basically down to 1 to 0 across the home. So the plates scene detective were some of the air testing and it was more of the conventional remediation company based testing. Probably not the Urmi where you going to get the vacuum thing and you can kind of go around but that didn't even pick it up you talk about some of the shortcomings and in the conventional mold testing.

JW Biava:  Sure well, let's talk about mold first and kind of what it does. Right? So yes, some mold grows these little Highfield hyphal fragments out of the material and then it develops spores and those s'mores or just like seeds from a tree and they travel just like dust and so as the mold especially when it dries out then those seeds or spores are easily transported through the air just like dust is so they're going to go in they're like this if I can fall out of here like dust in the rate at which they follow us depending on the size of the mold the density of the mold and there's some real great research that shows the settling time some old with something real small. I can aspergillus penicillium Spore you'll stay in the air for about an hour stacky botrus alternaria may fall out just a few minutes. And so you have this scenario where you have hidden mold growing in walls, that mold is thing in the entrance. Your breathable are presumably through electrical outlets, light switches recessed lighting any holes between the drywall make the cavities wall space or sling space and breathable air, so kind of picture this what's occurring and of course as the house Heats and cools throughout the day you have kind of a Billows effect where part of the house is heated and then the air expands and blows into the breathable air and at night it cools and it's kind of sucked back in. So this is the way that the mold is kind of transport it around and you're going to get exposed to it and then of course, there's the Mechanical dispersion the mold where there it's like a Wallace hit or carpet has walked on and the Sportster then distributed back through the air. So with all that being said we look at testing we say okay while the primary route of exposure for mold is going to be inhalation you're going to read it. And so what is it you're breathing and what could you be breathing the gravity place for 1 hour snapshot in time of the air that you're breathing but we also sell the swab swear if you have anything that's visible. You think maybe mold, you just swap it with something like a Q-tip. We Analyze That see what it is. Any visible mall would have to be removed and there's an indication of some type of water damage your water leak and then that the selling plate shows the route of exposure when you get something like an urn me what you're doing is collecting a dust sample as much dust as possible and hoping that dust it kind of represents which is potentially breathing. Of course if you snap on the floor you have contamination, Outdoor sources if you walk through your garden get some compost in your dog walked in so they can buy us the results. That way at best would be to take a dust sample a little higher up. I find Urmi false positives what I really like about Urmi is it picks up to stachybotrys pretty well. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: it's just it's another black mold. 

JW Biava: Yeah. It's another tool to write each of these sampling methods is a tool to try and address what may be a mold problem. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Where's the best place to get the Urmi test done? 

JW Biava: Well, you know, I think we have some of our Fair Labs the one that everybody seems to use right now. it's micrometrics because that's kind of the Shoemaker lab Lab P&K. I believe we've used a lot in Alamance you put me on the spot. I can't remember all the lies that those those are to your right there that if they're good labs. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And are you guys going to start covering or start doing the Urmi testing at all yourself too? 

JW Biava: No way I talk to Steve Jasper who developed the Urmi man. This is right after it came out yo 15 to 17 years ago. Yeah, and I just realized that the assumptions that were made in the Urmi and Analysis and interpretation just completely flawed. And so no wonder hes not of interest to me. We might eventually do some type of qpcr analysis. We are looking at DNA DNA analysis, but I can't really find a good application it if you look at me they analyzed I think it's 36 species, right? If you look at it if it lands on a plate it grows we detect it. So were talkin we look at about 50 Genera which represents like 35,000 species. So, you know, it's kind of like they keep it simple, right? You know that if it grows–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: : The fact that you can test if an area. 

JW Biava: It is and I mean, I want to go and all the specifics with me, but let me just give you 1, okay, if you look at Urmi, there’s Group 1, Group 2, molds group to as what you subtract out of group 1 to get your score group 2 has Alternaria in there, but Alternaria¡¯s the most antigen Mystic molded reduces some really nasty talks. So it's pretty important enough you have alternaria some the six people. We see are exposed to Alternaria and get that something or he says, it's not a problem. So that's why I love doctors have developed. Their own interpretation is to try to get away from some of these issues. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very interesting and how does mold get on the play? Cuz my concern is it okay if mold is already kind of rested on the ground and we put the plate on the countertop or on the ground. How does the mold get in there so we can test it assess it. 

JW Biava: Yeah, it's it's settling out. So just as dust, you know, if you if you stare at the light shining into your house and you see the dust traveling it travels generally down work, right? And so it's just a general trend to disable out. So in 1 hour exposure that the doctors we worked with over the last 30 years have developed this hell scale that says that if you're less than five colonies for 1 [inaudible] your health is probably going to be pretty good. It's like to be affected by the environment. You notice that's not based on the type of mold because we don't know synergies between mold. I mean is aspergillus and penicillium together. Is that worse than alternaria bipolaris together. We don't really know these things. So we do look at the the Genera cuz there is some significance their core stacky botrus is much worse than class Purim as far as health goes so there is significance but we do also base the potential mold loading on the total accounts.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very good. So we talked about some different techniques. You can do the tapping technique where he have a clothes item. You can tap it for time played against the clothes. Is there a technique with putting the play down should you kind of agitate that area if you just walking through it and then putting the plate down that way there's a greater chance that anything that was there will now make it's way on the plate?

JW Biava:  Sure what you're talking about. you're getting pretty sophisticated here. We ask wonderful cuz what we want to do and were actually doing right now is developing educational materials to teach people how to do this as cheap as possible. So were selling these $3 Plate it's you can just take Use them as a tap test ordered test grow in your cabinet look at them and kind of be educated enough to know. Yeah, I'm still good or maybe I should send us into the lab. So what you're talking about, there's kind of an aggressive sample is what we would call in the sky and that's where you're stirring things up to see what falls on the plate that can be beneficial. But what we really want to do primarily a see what you can be exposed to day today. So if you're normally run an HVAC system run that if you normally walking around in the house do that preferably turn off any air purification because we don't want to get a sample is biased a little low rights and see what's truly environment. So, you know, those those things come into consideration is the same thought on should I test my attic or crawl space attic and crawl spaces are always nasty if you're storing materials up there or if you're looking for a source of the mold that your test them. Otherwise, well see first of all what you're being exposed to. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Very good very interesting. Let's go for a lot of people listening to some probably maybe have no mold issues at all. Maybe they have health symptoms that are connected to it who knows bold as so many different symptoms connected to it. If there's a TED talks to seeing your body. So why is mold a problem if I'm outside and theres no leaves that are just naturally breaking down. Why aren't I getting sick there, but mold in the house has a bigger problem. Write that down?

JW Biava:  Sure in quite honestly, there's a little bit of a fallacy there in that some people think so but I can't get sick from mold outside. I know that my wife and daughter when they were severely affected by mold. My wife couldn’t run her compost heap anymore cuz she would get city of brunette and for a while she could even Garden so she was so sensitive to the mold that just a little bit would set her off now so why is mold indoors typically worse than Outdoors? Cuz we still up this toxic box, right? So based on what you've done is create an incubator you got completely closed in house. So it's wonderfully energy-efficient. There's no communication of inside and outside air by dilution of toxins mold spores are ubiquitous. they're absolutely everywhere. And so we build our houses out of mold candy, which would be Right backing on drywall. it's piggybacking on insulation [inaudible] members. Yeah, and so the only thing missing is water you know it and that's why I always say when my little catchphrases is no water no mold. Tf you can keep the water out you keep the mold out and when I say keep the water out that means humidity less than 60% and no standing water mold grows preferentially based on the amount of water activity. So cute in that water low keeps the mold low.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very good. Were going to go into that in a minute because I have so many patients that are like have never had a water leak. it's like yeah, but you got 65% humidity in your basement and that's an easy cubatur for mold that will eventually work it's way to the house where you have not necessarily an attic leak or a leak in the drywall you have high humidity which is creating an incubation for mold that happens a lot. Right? 

JW Biava: Absolutely. Yeah, if there were no known Water Events within a house and house had a basement. you're just about guaranteed the basic. Going to be the highest levels in the house. And that's because subgrade and you always got some water up against those walls external walls. And so there is some type of humidity condition that will lead to mold growth. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It's a why is that because because the cement foundations kind of creating a heatsink between the wet environment on the ground on the outside and there's some kind of moisture transmitted through that is what's happening?

JW Biava: Cements like a sponge most people think of it as a hard surface water goes right through it. It may not even appear wet but it's producing humidity inside to give me an example. I had this beautiful house here in Corrales, New Mexico. I just I really liked it flat roof houses a lots of mistakes, but I had to scrape on the front and the dang Pond. I had to put like a hundred gallons of water a week in it because it was leaking and I didn't have time to fix it because they had to quit while that water was going underneath my foundation and I had no water leaks at all. But is very high humidity. I mean, it was read in 65 70% in the desert. Wow, respond in this water underneath the foundation. This is early on I'm hopefully a lot smarter now, but I can't really take it up until until a little later with the cost was.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow, unbelievable. So we have the humidity kind of factors. We have to look at humidity. So we should get some kind of humidity meter whether it's attached to your thermostat or individual detecting device now, I spoke with you earlier. Maybe you change your assessment think last time we chatted you said you wanted it like 50% or less. Now, you said 60 so is is 60 at the better Gauger 60s the–

JW Biava: Drop-dead cut off 50 is robbed at Target. Yes. I really prefer 35 to 40% 50mm started. Okay. See the promise if you're 50 on average you could have isolated pockets in your house is 60, right? So you're just in the best. You can keep that humidity low.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Now after we spoke I purchase a whole house dehumidifier. I got one of the Aprilaire versions that's covers 5000 square feet and I have that for the most part attached to my basement my base. I keep at about 48% all the time that works great. And then during the summer months when the air conditioner is on that has a natural dehumidifier in the fact. So for the most part were good and then the offseason I have Nest thermostats that monitor the humidity summer always keeping it below 50% You think that's a pretty good gauge for most people to Chief. 

JW Biava: That's great. that's a good set of humidity. But especially in like Kentucky we know certain person there that they wrestle with that and so, you know that the natural thinking as well, you know dilution is the solution to pollution set a certain person brought him so much outside their that their HVAC system was drinking water. And so you have to kind of manage this and be responsible with bringing in the fresh air dehumidifier and did not frighten mold Problems by by doing those two things.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly as I could tell you my basement, which is a 2000 square feet. It had about a 68% humidity. So now I keep the Aprilaire on I just have it set to about 49% and Is really well this time of year the humidity naturally drops where we actually have to put a humidifier on because the humidity gets about 15% worse is still bloody dry. So we will bring it up to about thirty in the winter. I was still very dry which you know, you would think there's not going to be any chance of mold grow up with that correct? 

JW Biava: No, there shouldn't be a humidifier that's always a bit of a concern if it's got to keep those things clean. You got to make sure you don't have those isolated pockets of humidity, but certainly understand Comfort. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Our is connected to the HVAC but we only do it once a year, I use airbrand for the humidifier, and for the [inaudible] Any feedback on brands?

JW Biava: No, I always just look at the reviews and determine that way. I don't keep in my head.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Perfect, so we have that kind of obvious thing which is going to be hit the humidity. So $10 humidity detector that's going to be the best way to assess that and what about more things like leak in the roof? Leak in the drywall. what's the best way to assess this? Do you recommend moisture meters? How do you attack it outside of like? Hey the drywall is wet. Hey, there's a water stain on the ceiling. How do you assess that? 

JW Biava: That's the tough part. So we want to try to educate people that just keep their eyes out. Right? So the first is if there's any water at all within a home and used to be dry within 48 hours 48 hours against absolute the foremost can start to grow. So if you see a problem don't say I'm just going to wait and I'm just going to dress it later. It needs to be dried quickly. So you want to use fans dehumidifiers and get that dry. If it's been longer than 48 hours just be careful pants cuz he can spread mold spores all around but certainly drying is the key me personally just one of the tips I like is every 12 to 18 months. I have my roofing contractor come out and inspect my roof. It's the most obvious source of potential water. And so we look at the roof often and then of course, you know, you want to make sure you don't have flooding or any water up against external walls that gutters are extended away from the foundation just think about keeping water off of your house. that's the key. don't let Landscaping slant towards the house just consider water has to be a way. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, one of the big things I did it made a big difference is once we chat and I think it's January February this year. I am proactively hiring a roof guy to go off my roof. Give me a couple hundred bucks go in there and check out all the flashing check out all the seams make sure proactively there is no lease best couple of hundred bucks ever to spend. So 100% agree with that make everyone should be on top of that number to was we made sure our sub pumps were dial in and they had individual battery power to itself is ever an outage cuz of a flood we had those sub pumps able to run an external battery source is any feedback on the sub pumps which are basically a pump in between the concrete foundation in the ground to get that trap water out. Any feedback on that? 

JW Biava: It just got to keep it dry and monitor it if I go and it looks like there's any growth in the sump pump. I might treat it, you know, it's peroxide or some people could tolerate bleach course, we don't like to promote leash. But yeah, you know just something to kind of treat it and make sure if you got a sump pump and you got all 70 humidifier cuz it's just it's going to be humid down there. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Everyone in my opinion whos got a crawl space or basement just investing money to have a whole house dehumidifier. It's worth it. I know people that have regular, you know, dehumidifiers that are connected to a drain and I can tell you within by the end of the day there's a gallon or two already filled and those things are naturally set to trigger once it gets full it stops to humidify. So you got to be changing it at least once or twice a day and have a humidity months and most people can't keep up with that. 

JW Biava: Sure, of course where you are. that's it. that's a real problem where we are here in the desert Southwest we have crawl spaces and we don't need dehumidifiers. But since you brought a crawl spaces, I do want to talk about that briefly is that there's two ways to handle crawl space either make it Immaculate or you make it into a wind tunnel. And those are the only two ways to handle it and eat healthy crawl space. So it has to be is just as clean is your in pristine is your indoor environment or you have to have a crawl space fan and draw the air through there so that you're not getting you sent you get a negative pressure the crawl space you don't get that are communicating up in your breathable are so those are the only two ways to keep crawl spaces healthy. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Very good. What kind of simple tools can people get at home to assess what's happening in their home? So we have obviously we have like a dehumidifier gay humidity Factor. that's a simple one, right? We know that anything 60 or up. Were really concerned. Are you concerned at 55% like that kind of still a you're talkin statistics. 

JW Biava: If your 55 you might be at 60 somewhere, right? So it's just don't play with fire. You can't keep as low as you can.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And I'm not sure if we kind of broken it down while humidity even matters. I'm going to go into my explanation. I'll give you a whack at it too. So basically humidity is going to look at the saturation of water or moisture in the air and the more saturated the air is the harder it is for water in your house to evaporate. So like JW said after 48 Hours standing water is in a create mold. Why because it hasn't been evaporator. So the more the dryer the air is 2 greater chance of that acts like a sponge and pulls that water up there for providing less chance for mold to grow. Is that a pretty good assessment? 

JW Biava: That's pretty good. Let me throw this out you okay is so so you have dried fruit, right Redford doesn't grow multiplayer on the shelf forever. If you have fresh fruit on the Shelf week 2 weeks is starting to Decay and break down it's water activity. There's just more water in the fresh fruit and allows the Mold and bacteria to grow this dry doesnt have the mold and bacteria to grow it's all about water activity. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Big of air is a sponge. You got a wet sponge trying to basically wipe off a wet area. It's not going to be able to because it's so saturated. Totally. How is dew point and humidity. Hows that different people talk about dew point which has a correlation to humidity. Hows that different? 

JW Biava: Well dew point does not usually come in to conversation with mold is much. I mean that's the point at which the temperature in the humidity levels achieve 100% right so that you get done or water forming on the surface. Yeah. it's interesting. I mean the idea of Being Earnest is there Active water do would be active water in high-humidity where the material is essentially saturated? See if you get the material above a water activity of I guess about .8 Bowl start to grow and what gets a point 9.95. Then it really takes off, especially some of the nastier species and so keep in that water down keep materials dry is absolutely the key. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent. Let's talk about some of the more toxic species of mold. We have like to eat though in the Michael phenolic types, which are going to be more water-based. You have the the black mold that you mention the penicillium base mold. And then we also have like the mycotoxins which are toxins that come from the mold a lot of people there really having issues. With a lot of the toxins that come from the mold not just the mold. Can you get a break down like, you know your top 5 or top 10 like cheat list of the mold and then kind of go into some of those really damning mycotoxins 

JW Biava: Sure, and that's it. that's really tricky because mycotoxins last I saw the cat was it right about a thousand mycotoxins it or not or is he and then there's also the the MDOC is microbial volatile organic compounds. Some of the mold is starting to grow it's putting off the [inaudible], which include alcohols aldehydes ketones in their vault organic chemicals that people would react to and be sensitive to an infant make him sick, but then you get into the actual mycotoxins in which small amounts of this chemical compound inside. The body is toxic and krates toxic symptoms. And so when we look at the mycotoxins where they sell stachybotrys black mold has the worst from exposure to ask for [inaudible] just because it's more common is more prevalent. And so, you know, when you look at mold sickness mold illness or mold toxicity it often is a matter of what you're being exposed to in the most likely culprit more than what's the most toxic like Pepto myces produces some real nasty mycotoxins, but it's hardly ever discussed as I said alternaria. it's actually the most antigen istaqbal. that's when it creates that the real autoimmune types of symptoms in people, but a lot of people don't even have it on the radar. So I just lost a little tricks to it. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting and I know I thought I had black mold and I think when we test it out pull up my labs here in a minute pre and post will talk about it. Cuz I thought we had black mold. I think when we ran into the lab you guys said it was more aspergillus and everything else. 

JW Biava: And that's not uncommon for short-term water leak. So you could have a growth sequence where you'll start getting, you know, if there is a water leak to get some aspergillus penicillium growth some cloud of spores and if they're there's more water is water produced persist for longer time and you start getting the mower toxic species, maybe some alternaria and then some chaetomium and then eventually stacky botrus so that there is kind of a growth sequence based on the length of the leak in that spare –. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So let's talk about the big ones aspergillus right? And then you have your your your your the black mold that you mention there. Is there anything else you wanted to highlight their just a big bounce? 

JW Biava: Yeah. Well, you know it in our reports we detail the types of mold in the mycotoxins are currently known with them. And I think you're nailing at their aspergillus penicillium chaetomium fusaro. Trichoderma stacky botrus alternaria. If I didn't say that one. Those are the most common we see that are crate mold toxicity and people.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Let me share my screen take a look at this real fast. That way people can actually see what some of these Labs look like and they can see the sum of the mold that was actually my house and then well look at the pre and post on that and then we will go into what we can do about this how to test it how to assess it what to do when I guess it's really important. I let me share my screen here. Actually, Ill pull this up in just a few minutes. Give me a few minutes to get this all prepped up shirt, but in general with the labs that you guys are running is a couple of x factors on there. I want to talk about some of the X Factors which are going to be mold brought in from animals. How are you assessing or trying to you know, extract the mold from animals coming from the outdoor versus the mold from a water leak inside the house that being done? 

JW Biava:  Well, that's a great question. that's why I what I say is 50% of what we do as the company is the laboratory analysis. The other 50% is on the consultation the really somebodys going to send us samples. They really should request consultation wear one of our trained experts can look at this and give suggestions on potential problems. So if we see like candida candida and the cardia sometimes trichoderma sometimes microsporum Road at Roula these Janeiro mold are often from people or pets rather than water damage and so we can kind of didn't say hey, you have high candida in this area. Do you have a person or pet in their baby has some type of yeast infection or if you know, the claw disporum is fairly consistent across the board say it's two colonies across the board. Will that looks to be the normal background level for the house. Now, if you have high levels of of chaetomium that shouldn't be anywhere that should we shouldn't see that and so that's a definite indication of some type of water damage. So we look at this based on the statistics the number of samples collected the prevalence of a certain Genera mold within the home and then kind of make some recommendations there along with the homeowners knowledge of water bit's. So again, it's kind of an iterative process trying to determine potential sources and make improvements in the environment. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting are the score what a panel looks like here to go break this down. Alright, so here's my panel here. Let me know if you can see my screen yet. Yep. I can see it. All right cool. So here's my panel here from last February and there was like a black mold sample essentially in the kitchen behind the stove. I think what happened is some of the caulking the kind of seals the countertop from the back of the wall. I think it kind of fail than just water and moisture weather is from cooking or humidity on the stove or just spills in the countertop went back behind and mold was growing all up behind for you to stove range and you can see here 19 in the air and 19 will go or what that look like and then everywhere else basement, which I actually had a little bit of visible black mold on the two-by-fours on the ceiling that the various choices will talk about that too. And then master bedroom is pretty good and looks kind of breakdown what were seeing here on the analysis. 

JW Biava: Sure, it will just start their basement Island. that's kind of a normal background that account right you'd expect to see the last for jealousy a little side of Spore on those are most common in the environment than candida baby come from people or pets Gap Kids kitchen island. Of course 19 is is very high with that mucor is a mold that requires long-term water in quite a bit of it and so want to see mukoro or like okay, there's been severely for a long time. Of time horse penis lamb gross, you know, is it microsporum how to swear in those are common most to show up if there is an initial problem. Let me also point out there you have bacteria these small plates. We use a side Rod extra Sagar that's intended to grow mold and inhibit bacterial growth. But if there is a tremendous amount of bacteria, it'll break through and grown. So we note that on the report cuz that's interesting on the overall biological condition of of that room weather the bacteria good bacteria back bad bacteria, you know, and we don't really know. it's just interesting to consider in the overall biological Go to that room.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  very good. And in the master bedroom, not too much there. Be normal background cool and let me just talk about what I did based on your advice and your recommendations. And then I want to get a sense of just you know, you talked about some of their mediation process can create some of these metabolites that are actually even worse than the mold and you mentioned that your daughter is very sensitive really want to go into that. So what I did based off of your advice is number one, make sure the water leak is addressed. that's number one. that's the first thing we Sasson dial then second. We looked at addressing the environment the basement though didn't seem to be affected but we still addressed it. Anyway just for safekeeping. So we got the whole house dehumidifier kind of lined up there. Make sure sub pumps were good number 3, wei topically address the mold and we did it with 20% hydrogen peroxide and a negative air containment. So all areas that we can visibly see we hit it with the 20% hydrogen peroxide after that. We then use the citroxade solution to fog the that tire area. We opened up behind the dry walls with the dryfall which gets about a 1/2 10 Micron size. So it's very tiny. You can get in-between that the floorboards and socks that got all in that area with fog the whole entire house. Let it sit for 24 hours. So any of that solution any mold that was agitated would come back down hit it be neutralized and then we came back in and then we just upgraded some of the air filter in the house be upgraded to well talk about this the Austin Air healthmate plus I have a couple others that are really good are doctors. Well as the as was one other one that I have is well the moldcule those are the big ones that we upgraded to thoughts on my remediation process. You help guide me through that. Can you walk us through that in general? 

JW Biava: That is a perfect scenario. So people can afford to do that. you're absolutely right. There is no sense in doing anything else until you stop the source of the moisture is there's no substitute for Source removal whatever the mold is growing on needs to be removed properly and then once you do that, then you're that's 90% of the work than the last ten per-cent is some type of filtration or dilution. We were talking about the Erv systems bringing in error that clean control their into the house exhausting out bad air or if you doing some type of filtration, whether it's just HEPA filtration or it's happen along with zeolite activated charcoal things like that. So that gets kind of into what I consider a maintenance strategy. Were trying to keep the the mold load within your house low. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: that's very good. Now one of the things I want to highlight I'm going to just tell you so this is really cool on the back page you we have the aspergillus to talk about some of the species here. And here's the interesting thing right aspergillus and these are where a lot of the problems, is all these potential mycotoxins or maybe spit out from these molds aspergillus. You can see some of the various mycotoxins candida more from the pets and then you can see some of the microspore am here and then well as the music or And then the penicillium in the associated mycotoxins of that anything you wanted to say about the analysis how to interpret the back page of this. 

JW Biava: Well, that's a lot of us for two reasons. So 1 is you know, we work with a lot of doctors and they have found that buy us included pictures and a list of toxins increases patient compliance. So we know that improving environments approves hell how do you convince others of that? it's a lot of this information to try and increase compliance the other side of it is that this is this is the current understanding the current research their find him or talked since all the time quite honestly, I probably need to revisit these list to see if we need to add additional mycotoxins. So it's useful information. Some of it can be correlated to like a urine mycotoxin type analysis, but you're in mycotoxins only test for yeah, maybe 12:00 and stop by Michael toxins. So, you know, that's it's it sometimes difficult correlate.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting very very good. Love it. Love it. So a couple things here one of the Highlights cuz when I and it just to get people kind of a baseline of how much it cost me it cost me about 6,000 everything remediated wasn't too bad. I mean in the grand scheme of things it used to cost used to feel like it cost other people that I know 50 to 100,000 insane right that the remortgage your house to afford a lot of that. So with some of these newer techniques with some of the fogging solution, what's your assessment on that bike compared to how it used to be in some of the older more expensive methods? 

JW Biava:  Well, you know the following Solutions specifically we refer to as the bounce volume solution because we've done the testing on it and we know that is very effective and we haven't had eBay report back that they've had some type of reaction to it. A lot of times people are are just as sick from the chemicals that are used as the mold. So we've had severe reactions to Concordia microban even some to to benefact which is supposed to be a natural time will I think it is sir. Yes. So, you know we work with what we know works. And so that's why I long time to refer to Citrus a furball balance is their products we work with over the last 20 years ago. They work now as far as their use yet whisk is I considered a polishing technique. I think it's fabulous and that it touches every little bit of air it treats the mold and it actually kind of I called flocculating drops the mold spores out of the air on to the horizontal surfaces. Where can be easily clean. It does penetrate the wall spaces and sealing spaces. So it's very effective in those cases in which people can't remove the source it buys them time too, so we have a lot of times people say all volume doesn't work fog in this fog in that will match in if you're in an apartment or condo or rental house, you're not able to do the remediation. What are you do? I mean you just died filtration improvements are fogging improvements are deluding by opening Windows. I'm guessing that you can do to try to keep your total toxic load below your threshold. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very good and you mentioned the corn chromium, which is the the the major kind of method for spraying in the people that I heard. They wanted to do that they kind of had a peracetic acid hydrogen peroxide blend at the 20% level which you like was acceptable cuz I didn't create a lot of those metabolites. They also had the concrobium. So we just kind of negotiated. Lets keep the corn chromium out because of the metabolites. Can you talk about some of those metabolites? Can you talk about your personal history with your daughter? Because I think you said that she would react that Nick even more to the metabolites in the actual mold itself, is that correct?

JW Biava:  Well, not switch the metabolites as it was just actual chemicals. So this is this is you know, my my history with this starts 20 years ago and my daughter is almost 18 now and when she was about five we knew we had to smoke, this temporary rental, we had between houses and I used a bunch of bleach one time and man. She got the same. Turn the bleach needed from the mold and for her that was 105 degree fever flu-like symptoms that lasted 3 days and they would recur every 2 weeks at that when exposed to bolt. She got the same symptoms exposed to bleach. Now, we talked about that the secondary chemicals were talking more like ozone when ozone you know, it sounds very effective at treating mold and I have no problem using it crawl spaces and places like that. You surely don't want to breathe that everybody can understand that but it also can interact with the pain send the furnished goes that she has in the house and create these secondary chemicals. That can be hazardous. What are they? Not sure if this is just kind of my understanding based on the research. I've seen so based on the inhalation Hazard and potential for creating additional chemicals does not typically recommended for treatment, but it does work, you know, just like I had a guy call me the other day said hey, we got a remediation company wants to use chlorine dioxide gas in the house. I killed a mold. I see absolutely. No kill the mold kill you too. But you know, there's a delicate balance between treating the environment and creating a bigger problem. And so we try to do those things that are going to do any harm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That makes sense. So you're the secondary chemicals from the ozone ozone works good, but the secondary chemicals can be a little bit more harmful? 

JW Biava: That could be so use caution. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: What are the things that it's kind of an emotional thing? A lot of people once they see mold in a spot like for a Forenza to me in the kitchen. it's like crap. They kind of feel the need. Should I like  knocked down every piece of drywall to go dig from mold in this house. So it's just kind of assessment of like, oh my gosh, is it going to be so crazy so expensive. So how do you handle the mindset of an okay? Here's mold right here. You can see it. How do you assess the rest of the house without creating a whole bunch of damage? 

JW Biava: Well, that's that's kind of the million-dollar question, isn't it? that's that's why we recommend the fogging is because it's going to get those quarter-sized spots that are you know, every 20 feet or something. You never going to find without some type of destructive analysis. So, you know, we have an inspection company here to Mexico and one of the ways to sample within the walls to draw a little hole and do what we call a wall check where you pull sport rap cassette out of that wall. What is most wall space living space is contaminated so she could be higher than breathable air. So don't let that are communicate. that's kind of rule number one. But when your talk about testing you test between two wall. Joist. What about the next to you know, theres theres are restrictions. Are you are you sure that you actually got to represent a sample or you can test between every single wall. Joist. You just practically can't do that. So that's why we tried to use air samples at does samples to to best see what we're being exposed to.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: it gets really pricey. So we have the fogging solution that we can kind of get throughout the whole entire crawl space or the What are back of the wall is once you've had an open up the wall stud estate we can really get a significant bit of fogging solution through that area. We can fall throughout the whole entire house. We can also bring it down to the HVAC turn the fan on and let it go throughout the HVAC as well. 

JW Biava:  Correct, correct. Yeah, that's great for treating the HVAC system change out the filter pump it through the HVAC system. It does a good job. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And what are you what do you recommend on the regard to or in regards to the preventive side? Okay. My house is good. I don't even have a problem. But maybe I want to use some of these Solutions preventively. what's your thought on that? 

JW Biava: You know Jeff—. He now has that Home Maintenance misting kit. I love that thing. it's like $195 for that little maintenance. Mr. And then you know a bottle is like 45 bucks and I can treat my entire house with one bottle and it takes me about 15 minutes. So, you know, I keep telling people and it sounds like a joke, but it's not I got six kids and two dogs and their nasty I said they just they bring stuff and you know, an inside can go through and treat my entire house. Lower the biological loading in my house and I just do it periodically every 2-3 months. If I don't have a water vent. I don't worry that much fiber. I use my Erv system to bring fresh area. I use my IQ are my Austin are too kind of filter the air and my familys wonderfully healthy. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That's great. that's a really really good. Okay, so you give me a couple of other questions here, they come up from that. So the air Mister is a newer product. I think I have seen I have a couple of patients that have used it Evan and I talked about it. He used it. Now. When would you use the fogger versus the air master? 

JW Biava: Oh, you know I think I probably fall back on wet and Jeff kind of determine that but the fogger does a much better job at penetrating. it's a much more thorough solution. So you may want to fog initially or if you know, you have a problem and then the maintenance mr. Is just to keep the levels down low. I know the advantage of the maintenance mr. The made him a misting solution is he doesn't have to leave you can use it and just be there and it's locking set off the fire alarm to stop going to alert the neighbors. I mean if I have hot fog before a townhome and the fox penetrate into the adjacent homes, you know that freaks people use me to ask. Mr. You don't have that problem. So dorm rooms Apartments the maintenance Miss easy way to do I go. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally that makes sense. Also, I think the dry fogger is going to have a smaller Micron size try to penetrate certain areas when you actually know you have mold that makes sense to do it when you know it and where the air want to be more maintenance they but you can still do it topically as well just hit you get a little more penetration with the fogger? 

JW Biava: What you do but in the hot fire I mean anytime you heat something it activates it. it's more effective. that's why we use hot water. Right? So the hot solution is more effective.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it in the part of a dorm or a hotel maybe even if maybe even somewhere you're traveling and you kind of see all this water water stains on the ceiling I can bring that little dry fogger missed that are fog or mist and I could still take care of my apartment on Airbnb. that's great. Let's talk about air filtration. You mentioned a couple devices you mention Austin are which I like you mentioned are IQ, I have ear doctors. What was the moldcule? Can you talk about what people should look at? We already mentioned some Brands up with some links Down Below in the video and well put some links down below to some of the products that we talked about some of the air testing as well as some of the Citrus a product you talked about what we should be looking for any good air filter. 

JW Biava: Well, you know that's a little tricky and everybody has their opinion and I guarantee you whatever I say now somebodys going to disagree with and some people really agree with me real simple. I mean filtration mechanical removal of the spores is best. And so anything that has a HEPA level filter is wonderful. You'll see all these marketing campaigns that say, well I have only removes 99.97% of 2.3 mi from particles that ultrafine particles or less than that. Well, yeah, but the ultrafine particles that still probably has a ninety 85% removal efficiency. that's great, you know, but that's the way they sell these katalyst Technologies the breakdown the spores or break down the toxins. So, you know, you have air purification which should be the traditional HEPA filter is usually have some zeolite or some activated charcoal to the Austin air like you are they both do then you got that you have the technology Sebastian you will try to break down the toxins and I put those more to like an air treatment category. Hope you like your moldcule. Yeah, I believe they are Oasis does it there's a few that use those Technologies 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, we got to talk about some of the Year filtration. I like I've been liking the Austin are just because of the fact that I want to change the filter for a long time. that's kind of one of those in the nicer facts that one. 

JW Biava:  Yeah. I think I have six of them between my businesses and home. So yeah, I'm a fan of him as well what I like about him the same silly but like the IQR has a real fancy digital display. The Austin area has a little switch with like it just goes 1 2 or 3. I can set it and then pull the knob off and then my kids can turn it on and off so that's why I like it. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh, oh, I love that. Yeah, that's that is once Im one of the good features does a couple of the unit's. I have a light on even like I think it's the ear doctor has a little Moon that goes on at night. it's like what I want and sleep on I want any light, you know, the one I liked him. And so the nice thing about Austin is the fact that there is no light. that's cool. Anything else that we should be looking at regarding at home devices outside of a kiwi have the air Mister we talked about that. it's kind of more of a one-off treatment maybe every 6 months to a year or for traveling. We have the air filter that got to be up a routine maintenance thing. We have like a dehumidifier that we can run the humidity down anything else. We should add to our report home. So we have like a moisture meter there any other text that you recommend to assess what's happening in 

JW Biava: Meters are good. If you have a suspect area that you think is wet. And so if you're saying hey this drywall here I think is wetting take moisture meter in either stabbed the frogs into it or some have RF technology or you just hold it up against it. The problem is that you got to know that wet if you're looking all the drywall in your house. If you don't suspect it's wet you're not going to touch it with a moisture meter every single some moisture meters can be helpful, but there are no absolutes solution. I know Fleer makes now an infrared camera that plugs into my phone and I think I paid $400 for it and for her. Is a lot for most people but when you consider my first infrared camera was $13,000. it's pretty cool that night. I have a $400 device that I can definitely awesome to see if there's moisture yet. So I like that a lot. So that's the text cite. I mean, Id I want a re-emphasize to just to make sure we understand that delusion is still the key and if people aren't familiar with these Erv systems the energy recovery ventilation systems, they're fabulous that they take your inside air and exhausted out and bring an inside outside are 2-year inside in the path of the are kind of crosses that your cover 80% of your energy. it's a fabulous way to get continuous ventilation of your house in most areas can handle them. You would have to talk with an HVAC guy. Cuz if you have real high humidity, you don't want to condense too much water in your house, but just keep in mind illusion is keep a lot of other professional biologists will talk about positive pressure of the house. That's wonderful if if you're able to modify your HVAC system or if you're putting in a new one, but You know there were getting to where cost is getting kind of prohibitive.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That makes sense. What about people that have already done some of the fogging and they see an increase in the mold count on the plates on retests Avenue A couple of patients of mine is flexing and we've been texting about it. what's happening there and what can we do about that? 

JW Biava: Well, there's never a hundred percent answer. it's situation by situation. Basically if the fog touches it it treats it. I mean it's it's pretty simple. So what are the conditions at which that didn't happen. Well one may be that the most sources external to the fog area say it's in their crawl space or attic space. It didn't get out of quickly fog then maybe that didn't get treated. Maybe the source got Disturbed or dried. So we talked about mold. I would just like dust or picture it movie like this. And what does doesn't move dry dust mooseberry. You see if you picture mold like a dandelion and you blow cross-eyed NY and all that goes into the are very similar with mold. She walked up to your drywall say you had a wall that was smoked ham date on the inside and you hit it with your fist once watch can put all those spores into that are in the in the wall space to think could introduce your breathable air so there is lots of different potential problems there. I know I work with Jeff extensively if there's a case where the the the volume doesn't work. He works with the people to get him some free solution to help fix that problem. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So that's great. that's really good. So Im going to sesmas Tampa have one patient that comes to mind lives in a very tropical environment. So first thing is, all right. Were assessing humidity. it's like 75 or sending me all the times. We have a whole house dehumidifier kiwi outside air conditioning running, you know, most of the time we looked at Ruess we looked at least we're looking at the foundation crawl spaces. Make sure there's no mold in those areas and then keep the humidity low and then fog and then retests that kind of the recipe there?

JW Biava: That is the recipe. I know it's not surprising when people take and I dehumidification take humidity from the 70s. At 80% down to you know, Thirty 40% that all the sudden the mold levels go up that does that does occur fairly frequently also people modify the house whatever they're doing to address it. Sometimes they stir up more Mold good example, as you know carpet is a horrible reservoir for mold to get Cerrito re-suspended into the air. So when you go to remove the carpet, of course that can create a temporary situation which levels are highly elevated because the removal.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Makes sense that you also highlighted the fact that mold can be stressed and when will gets stressed more mold comes about or more mold. Can you highlight that the idea is stressing the mold? What does that mean? 

JW Biava: Yeah. Well, you know where this came from a Mycologist that I worked with years ago and you know, I hate to repeat things in which I had really seen too much of data, but I think this is widely accepted in the industry. So were going with it for now when mold is stressed, it produces more toxins. And so that's usually hate, you know in regards to competition. So if aspergillus is growing in The chaetomium comes in and produces more toxins to come to ward off the ask for Jose for the penicillium and it takes over. I think that's more regardless with what were talking about. As far as stress mold of course is trying to preserve it's also it's creating toxins and releasing spores to promote it's life. So anything that stress is it is adversely affecting us, I guess in our house. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That makes sense. So anyone that's having these issues where mold levels are going up on retest really make sure crawl spaces are good really make sure attics basements are good look and see if water is hanging around the foundation and you if it is I think you would see the mold levels higher in the basement the right?

JW Biava: Typically yes definitely was based on when you perform the sampling and you know part of what were doing. This is an iterative process. Were trying to help you diagnose your house and do it as cost-effectively as possible. I mean you kind of alluded to this site I know certain remediators Walking to a house at the mold problem and they say, okay. I'll fix your problem for $100,000. that's just the blanket amount and they do and they do a great job fixing it. But whoever else wants to spend $100,000 fixing the house and maybe we can improve our environment well enough for you know, what's $1,000. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly and if were seeing mold in the basement, we've gotten a dehumidifier set up a water still on the foundation. Are we going to have to do a sub pump to really fix that issue a true cost to get that water away from the cement Foundation? 

JW Biava: Yes, you want you don't want any standing water against the foundation or basement walls? Yeah, that's always a bad idea. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So you need sub pump dehumidifier. And then of course then fogging good air filtration in it, and then were pretty good. 

JW Biava: You know French drains to divert the water away from the gutter extensions just real practical easy things just to get water away. If you got a high water table and the water is just naturally sitting against the basement concrete it in get rid of You know, but the idea being anything said great. it's not a good idea for anybody who is most susceptible. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Now this is a great thing that I see a lot of patients kind of me what they're like they're looking at buying new houses. they're like my last house may have had some issues. I really want to look at in this s what new house I can buy but I also want to know if there's mold issues to begin with and we know people may not disclose things all the time on their on their sellers disclosure is a lot of my patients are bringing a couple of these plates and they're they're asking the realtor handy to put these in the house for an hour and they'll go around and plate the house so want to think it's a great idea has plate the house that you know what your daddy your final to play at the house when I get your take on what other things can people utilize when they go into a house for the first time to be mold detectors that has been where they can pick up little signs or symptoms. 

JW Biava: Well, you know, I think the first and then if you're buying a house you're going to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars. Hire a local inspector somebody whos really good looks at these things and typically home inspectors are not mold inspectors. Home inspectors often offer a mold service for low take a sample inside. Stepped outside to prepare the two that doesn't really give you a good snapshot of what's actually occurring in the home. So, you know spend three to $500 to hire somebody local to go in with him Fred camera collect samples put their professional ice on it give you recommendations. it's just a good practice. If you can't afford to do that. Yeah, at least do the do-it-yourself test get to see what's going on understand it the way we do it is said that the test in the gravity place we use is really the best indication of potential health effects. Most of the mold testing does not linked to health scale. So it is valuable information. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: it's so easy things you could do is just if is a crawl space or an addict you could put up or basement put up a plate up there and then you can also just look at General history of leeks and those kind of things look for stains on the ceiling what's going on with they can all be painted over most people came over. Anyway, would you look at cracks in the foundation things like that too? 

JW Biava: Just consider- How can water move here? How can water can infiltrate, you know here in New Mexico we have Flat roof houses which are always a big red flag and shoe is the stucco and if you see a bunch of crust cracks in Stucco will clearly water can go through a crack. So that's a potential problem. What we call Red Flag.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Anything else do is our don't that typical worker mediators would do that. You should probably modify kind of like the concrobium of the other compounds that could create more secondary talks– 

JW Biava:  Why I think the first Keanu specialty remediators to make sure they understand the negative air containment. I use that as a screening question. I tell people ask him if he are you going to use a negative air containment and if they say what is saturn then third general contractor not a mold remediator and don't use them because they're going to make the problem worse after you get through-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Can you highlight that? What is a negative? 

JW Biava: Yeah in why don't you just go to YouTube and type it in because it's been used in the asbestos industry forever and you can actually see visually all it is is plastic sheeting and then a machine with a HEPA filter that sucks the air out of that area that can be remediated and then discharge is it outside so creates negative pressure so that when those mold spores or at least they don't travel into the rest of the house they go through the filter and get filtered out. Doesnt doesnt Stir It Up desecrate a bigger problem. A lot of people try to do it themselves or general contractor. They start ripping out drywall turn it through the house. And then the whole house is contaminated and becomes a much larger issue then.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent very good anything else?

JW Biava: Don’t use things that are hazardous to don't use a whole lot of the chemicals even some of these that they promote is being natural are Sols they still seem to create reactions. We do like hydrogen peroxide cuz I really haven't had too many people react to it. A few people have told me that part of reactions, but I can't pinpoint why so it's a pretty easy one. And then make sure that they're going to do a third-party verification after a mediation is complete somebody that you can come in and say yeah, there's not any mold left. The job is complete. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very good. Let me just summarize everything first. You can correct me. First thing is one if there's a mold issue. Is it visible to where's the leak coming from assess the root cause of that leak 3 isn't environmental moisture issue, that could be just one water sitting up against the foundation. You want to fix that or getting the whole house dehumidifier to bring the humidity down to that 50% kind of range and then four will be using some kind of topical spray. Just hit any visible mold. that's where the hydrogen peroxide 20% will come in five the fogging solution to get the whole house behind all of that the drywall and everything and then six maybe a maintenance kind of like that are mr. The maintenance kind of solution after that and of course assessing pre and post that I miss anything?

JW Biava: Nothing you got adjusted maintenance. I would put their filtration in there, too. Get a huge benefit by changing out their HVAC filter for a high-efficiency one. Even if you go to Lowes or Home Depot and get those filters that are rated for allergens and mold. that's a big improvement over that the cheesy paper filter say you should put in. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent. Is there anything JW one of the Highlight here that we didn't have to dress like or questions that most people ask or just really important clinical things. The patient should be aware of?

JW Biava:  What I think what I really like to emphasize that improving about your environment will improve your health if people understand you got to have clean food you got to have clean water and you got to have clean air. I mean the air that you breathe it's a huge potential source of contaminants getting at your body or toxins getting into your body and you know by doing these things that we talked about to improve your environment from a mold standpoint. It improves it from every standpoint. I mean by bringing in and ventilating and deleting out toxins to remove vocs or chemicals that have accumulated environment by doing filtration to remove particulate matter whether it's Flame retardant Scotchgard, whatever it may be from your are all these things that were talking about overall improve your environment will improve your health. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very good and two questions for people that are on the chat here there chiming in number one fox on UV lights and their effect of knocking down mode. 

JW Biava: Well UV lights are effective at killing mold if there's a long enough residence time and so people put a UV light in a duck in the air is traveling by it so fast that it won't be real effective. So then I'll put a UV light kind of close to the filter. So the mold spores get caught on the filter in the UV light kills them. I'm not real sure what the benefit of that is because sports are already filter down you just going to remove the filter. So I'm not a big fan of Eli don't see a huge Effectiveness for it, but it does kill mold is just not the most effective way to go about it. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: What are the best essential oils for killing mold in of the Citrus a that uses a bunch of those just for the listener? What are those oils? 

JW Biava: I'm gonna tell you the ones that I'm familiar with horse tea tree oil does a great job grapefruit seed extract Citrus seed extract lemon lime Tangerine do real. Well, Ive seen some data shown thieves oil does real well and then oregano oil but you smell like a sub shop in Italian sub shops. that's kind of a tough one. Those are the ones that Im most familiar with. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And what are the big modifications? I know you mentioned one earlier, which I want you to highlight One Last Time. What are the Dez, you know, the more complex to the less complex modifications that people can make to their HVAC to make it more mold. Friendly. 

JW Biava: Yes. The number one is is put a better filter in it. I mean system if you see that a Merv 11 or greater is is wonderful. I have another 16 in my filter filter my HVAC system, but mine was kind of designs for that. So filtrations number 1, two do is keep it clean. I mean certainly you can have your Ducks swept especially if they're hard. She got to be careful on on the flex ducts cuz you don't want to penetrate them. If they do that that you want to make sure that the vacuum cleaner is outside of the house and that they're running the vacuum through a HEPA filters. you're not committing your house. So that would be the second keep registers clean. I mean if you look at a register on HVAC system and it's black it's dust and dust contains mold just as a general rule by reducing dust, you're always reducing bolt. So those are the real simple things. Let me tell you something that that was presented to me just a few weeks ago that I thought was brilliant and it was somebody that wanted to treat their ducts that they couldn't replace them. They were contaminated and instead they wanted to use the hydrogen peroxide is soaked and Nerf ball with the peroxide and then use a string of pulled it through the ducts to actually treat the Ducts. So you had a sophisticated there, but what a brilliant little solution ducting.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow, that's amazing. And of course you can do this at your safe solution through that as well. 

JW Biava: Sure. You can just do it foggy at that's a simple way, you know you Reduce the total buildup of dust but the fog integrate treatment. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And for people that don't have their renters. Are there Airbnb people right or you're in a hotel easy thing is at least if you can't do the fog can you can at least do the air Mister? 

JW Biava: Yes. Yeah. I carry one with me every time I go to a hotel and I just miss my hotel room cuz I've actually I did the studies early on against pseudomonas. Aeruginosa E. Coli methicillin-resistant staph and the VI safe Solutions wiped them out, even though they don't advertise that they worked wonderfully. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, you can at least keep the AC on which does have a natural effect of reducing the humidity so you could at least do that. And if you're somewhere long-term, you could at least get a portable dehumidifier, maybe one that links into a drain so you don't have to worry about anything at all the time. Great is there anything we need to highlight?

JW Biava: Man I’m telling suck everything out of my brain. I don't think I don't think you left. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: This is great. I need these calls for patients because they have so many questions that you really lined everything up and then again for resources here Immunolytics is going to be the place to stay. A preferred mold Lab company and we used a lot of the citrusafe fogging Solutions in this new water misters in to be a new one that I incorporate with patience. Any other places patients are people listening should be gone. 

JW Biava: I don't know you and Evan do great job hunt talking about these are website. Lets see, our website great resources. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Can you repeat the URL of your site?

JW Biava: Yeah

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I'll put all the links below anyone listening and driving. I can't write it all down. Don't worry links will be able I will also have a full transcription of the podcast. You don't want to listen. You can read it anything else. 

JW Biava:  Well, let me tell you give us another month. Were really working with the company and prove our educational materials on our site make it a lot easier. So give us a month and check it out. I think you guys will be impressed with what were working on. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent. JW thank you so much for everything and being a great guest and look forward to having you come back soon you take care. 

JW Biava: You too. Thanks.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Thanks, bye-bye.


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