How Parasite Can Weaken Your Immune System | Podcast #285

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Here’s another episode of Beyond Wellness Podcast! Parasites tend to live in our bodies. These organisms can enter our body anytime depending on what we touch, what environment we are in and especially on what we eat. If this happens, it doesn’t only affect our digestion but also our immune system. Check out this podcast with Evan Brand to know more about how parasites can weaken our immune health. Dr. Justin Marchegiani

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

In this episode, we cover:

03:11     Parasites in our Body

09:30     Water and Food Components, Pre-digestion

18:32     Parasites effects in Digestion

22:54     Gut Stabilization

27:25     Protocol vs. Personalized Care

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Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey guys, it's Dr. Justin Marchegiani here, we are going to have a fabulous podcast in store for you. Evan and I are going to be chatting about parasites and your immune system. Everyone's talking about having a stronger immune system today, or at least with all the COVID-19 issues, people are concerned about having a stronger immune system. And we're going to talk about how gut function can impact your immune system, especially parasites. Hey, Evan, how are you doing today, man? 

Evan Brand: I'm doing wonderful. You know, I think this whole thing's been a big wake up call for people that have been ignoring their health. I think it's really brought health to the forefront of the conversation and maybe people that have been ignoring their health or abusing their health or just simply being educated or naive about health issues. I think now people are kind of waking up to crap. There's actually a correlation between my health on a day to day basis and what happens in society. So if society has some sickness going around, I can be more susceptible. I could be weaker, I could be more violent. Trouble and people don't like that people don't want to feel vulnerable. And so one of the biggest things I think increases vulnerability is predisposing factors we've talked about this weeks ago with the blood pressure issues and the heart disease issues and some of the other the comorbidities that were popping up with the viral issue now, not to get too off subject, but I did notice yesterday, the CDC finally updated their statistics, because we talked about how every death was being marked as COVID until proven otherwise. And now that they've updated that the number of deaths in the US has been cut in half, it's been about a 50% drop. Now we're showing even less than seasonal flu deaths. We're showing like 35,000. So just wanted to point that out that that was updated for on the CDC website over the weekend.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, I talked to Dr. Rawls last week, and we had a really good conversation and one of the key questions I asked him was like, Hey, Doc, there's two diagnosis. For COVID-19 there's UO 7.1 UO 7.2. And I'm pretty sure that UO 7.2 is a subjective diagnosis for COVID. And I just told him, I said, Do you recall a subjective diagnosis and an objective diagnostic code for the flu or other types of respiratory infections? And he couldn't recall that, you know, he's a medical doctor for 35 years. So the concern for me is you have one diagnostic code that's objective, right? You do a PCR test or some kind of testing to evaluate it right. And then the other one is totally subjective. AKA you have any upper respiratory infections you pass away, or or you pass away have diabetes or Alzheimer's or cancer, but you also have COVID. Right? SARS 2Cov. virus, well, it just doesn't feel right that that would be added to the death list. So I think we have some of these confounding variables. And we just got to keep that out there and we got to look at it and compare it to precedents. How does precedents look in regards to previous flu seasons? Even all cause mortality? How does it look? So I think it's always good to have context. Context builds comfort? 

Evan Brand: Definitely, definitely. But back on to today's subject, how is it tied in? Well, parasites are something that I'm sure humans have dealt with for a very, very long time. And there's some people that argue that we could coexist with these pathogens. But our argument based on looking at thousands of people via lab testing is that and just clinically looking at symptoms and their skin and their moods and their sleep. Our argument is that you really can't coexist with these pathogenic organisms that create inflammation, they disrupt the gut barrier, they've reduced stomach acid, they cause malabsorption. They allow bacteria to thrive and Candida to thrive. Maybe when the food supply was not tainted in the soil had minerals and there weren't chemicals in the food and the water in the air. Maybe you could get away with it. But in the modern world, we just have too much toxin in our bucket to be able to come exist with thee. So you got to find them and then fix them.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I tell patients, there's two ways parasites cause problems, right? Number one is you get exposed to a large bolus of a parasite, whether it's giardhiam, and some drinking water or e histo, or some worms in some undercooked meats right in such a large amount and overwhelms your system, or you get exposed by smaller amounts, and due to stress, your gut barrier, your IGA levels are weakened, your immune system is weakened, your hydrochloric acid levels are lower, your enzyme levels are lower, and you're going to have a hard time keeping the area clean, you're going to have a hard time digesting your food you're going to have a hard time providing a compounds in the environment that can make it hard for bad stuff to grow. So like when we ferment different fatty acids and we acidify the small intestine like with butyric acid, for instance, or a lot of these acids that get produced through fermentation. Through good healthy probiotics, right? Remember lactobacillus acidophilus, acidophilus, literally translates to acid loving, these acids make it hard for bad critters to grow. Right. And so when we have an environment that is not healthy, we automatically make it easier for critters to grow for parasites to grow. And a lot of the detrimental effects of the parasite that may come in is going to be threefold. Number one, it's going to stress out your immune system, right, which then sucks energy away from you because takes a lot of energy to fight stuff. Number two, it's gonna affect your motility and your digestion, right? Your body's natural response when you get exposed to a pathogen is what usually to excrete it out. So diarrhea, and so that creates very, very poor absorption because you're flushing things out faster. You don't have the time to break down protein breakdown back, reabsorb your electrolytes. And then number three, is you're going to create good gut permeability, right, aka leaky gut and that's going to create more food allergy issues and even more immune stress because you have immune cells in your small intestine in your stomach, aka the golf and the malt, right gastric associated lymphoid tissue in the stomach, mucosal associated lymphoid tissue in the small intestine, but then when you have gut permeability issues, and you increase that zonulin protein that unzips, those tight junctions, and now undigested food particles and even bacteria like endotoxin or parasite toxins can get into the bloodstream and create more immune stress. And now you start seeing cognitive issues like brain fog, mood and anxiety and fatigue, which most people don't get it because they're like, wait a minute, I got a parasite. I should have diarrhea, bloating or constipation. I have digestive issues, but you can have cognitive and mental emotional energy issues alongside of that, and that's that overall connection.

Evan Brand: Yeah, well said great points and not to mention gluten increases on Yulin, too, so you're talking about just a pathogen. Increasing Zonulin and creating leaky gut. Well, even if you didn't have infections, you could be eating gluten or some other food allergen that's increasing. Zonulin, separating those tight junctions and then boom, now all of a sudden, you've actually opened the doors. So let's say you started out with no pathogens, you just had a diet that wasn't right. Now all of a sudden gut barriers open. If you do get exposed to pathogens, it's going to be easier for them to set up shop. I just want to cover a couple quick myths or maybe misconceptions about parasites I think people need to hear number one is that parasites are rare. This is a myth. We've seen thousands and thousands of clients around the world. The US is where we've seen the most clients. And I tell you, one in three, depending on the week could be two and three people show positive for some sort of pathogen, including parasites and so if many people have told us the story, hey, Dr. J. Hey, Evan. I've been to the gastro doc. They told me it's not possible to have parasites because I didn't go to any third world countries. We laugh at because we've seen all sorts of pathogens, I had many different parasites and I have not been out of the United States. And so that that's Myth number one. Myth number two, I would say would be that you have to have some sort of strong, anti parasitic drugs to to fix them. We've had many clients who've done right now with antibiotics. And we've had them do rounds of anti parasitic medications. And in some cases, they still, they still actually show up positive for these bugs, indicating there is some sort of antibacterial resistance, there's antifungal resistance, there's anti parasitic resistance. And so if you've beat the drum on drugs, drugs, drugs, you need to just kill harder, you might need to switch your game plan up those those are just a couple misconceptions that come to head there may be more

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very, very, very good points. And I think the key point is Yeah, if you are very healthy, it's possible that you have enough hydrochloric acid and IGA in immune response to be able to knock it out. But it's it's possible that even with a A large amount of the parasite exposure, you're going to fall prey. And let's not forget, the number three cause of death and many third world countries is dysentery usually caused by an amoeba or a parasite. So it's the number three cause of death. Now, obviously, if you're in a third world country you have, you don't have good plumbing situation. So you're going to be just around a lot of people debris that you normally wouldn't be. So of course, plumbing, indoor plumbing is one of the best things there and obviously clean water. And again, personally, the water can still potentially have parasites in it. If you're just drinking conventional well water or city water, it's still possible. So I recommend having a really good whole house filter, or at least a high quality reverse osmosis filter. I'm going to put some links for some of the products that I personally use and have used for years. Down below in the show notes. So we'll put down kind of the reverse osmosis filter that I personally have as well as the whole house. That'll give you some extra buffer on being exposed to these parasites via the water supply. 

Evan Brand: Okay, let me let me say this real quick Yeah, where you go off water, which is the fact that even if you are drinking tap water, let's just say you're lucky and maybe they use strong enough drugs or chemicals to kill off whatever parasite in the tap water, you're still going to be getting exposed to small doses of antibiotics, you're going to be getting exposed to chlorine and chloramines, which are basically like antibiotics as well. We know chlorine does a really, really bad number to the beneficial bacteria in the gut. So let's just say hey, you didn't get parasites, but you're still going to get chlorine. And if you're taking a shower and unfiltered water, you're getting chlorine through the skin that could potentially, you know, damage the the skin microbiome, but then the gut as well. So it to me it's a you have to you got to have filtered water everywhere.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly, and you hit the chlorine component. And there are other kind of metabolites of chlorine called chloramines, which it really disrupts the good bacteria in the in the gut and then what is the good gut good gut bacteria produce A lot of different compounds, one, they produce nutrients. And two, they're going to produce these beneficial acids that make it hard for bad bacteria to grow. So number two, so if we kind of go back if I rehash that again, so you're going to be weaker because you don't have the extra B vitamins, and vitamin K and good nutrients produced by your gut. And on the other side, you're going to have less of these environmentally altering compounds, these different acids that make it hard for the bad guys to grow. So now you have a lot more of a breeding ground because you're missing the internal endogenous nutrients. And then you're making it more hospitable for the bad guys to grow. So kind of my tagline over the years has always been good back to your bad bacteria, eats nutrients and poops toxins, good bacteria, eats poop, or pizza eats a good bacteria, eats toxins and then poops nutrients, right. good bacteria makes it hard for the bad guys to grow and then it produces all of these good news. treats as a beneficial byproduct.

Evan Brand: Yeah, let me say one more thing about water and then and then we'll move on, which is people may say, Well I've been filtering my water or I only drink from my fridge filter will a fridge filter doesn't do much so don't have false sense of hope there. You really want to have more advanced filtration. But let's say hey, I've got the water on point I've got this or that system. Okay, great. But lakes, rivers, creeks, I mean, basically all surface water contains Giardia and other waterborne parasites like crypto. So let's say you go down to the neighborhood waterhole. You know, like for me it was Barton Springs down when I lived in Austin, I'd go swimming there. I loved it. I it was great water. It smelled fresh, it looked fresh, it felt fresh, but it was still surface freshwater that was runoff and so from runoff and so that very well could have been where I picked up my parasites. Let's say you go to a waterpark with your kids and it's probably all heavily chlorinated, but that doesn't necessarily mean everything is pure there and you could get it up your nose and then All of a sudden you swallow it and then boom, it starts the reproductive cycle. So all of the recreational activities associated with water. That's a really easy place that people don't think about.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And then what I typically do is because I'm big fan of waterskiing out in Lake Austin, when I would go, I would hit my GI Claire 4 right afterwards. And I would do some higher dose probiotics as well, just to kind of, you know, if there was a tiny amount of something in there, we could at least flush it out and knock it out right away. But I've definitely had some bouts where like, after I was waterskiing, I'm like, okay, something's off with my digestive system. My foods been really good. So I've kind of always been in that pre emptive mode, when I get exposed to water that could potentially be a problem.

Evan Brand: That's a good strategy. It's not like you're saying you're taking a dose of antibiotics after you do waterskiing. You know, you're taking some sort of herbal or maybe some sort of binder to mop up any toxins or debris that you got to Christ to so these are safe, low hanging fruit that you're implementing.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% so in the water component, it's really important obviously the food component, especially like pork and fish, and things like that make sure it's well cooked. Those are just kind of common sense things. Of course, the higher quality, the animals are right and you know better animal husbandry kind of practices, the better, you know, chance that you're not going to have infections and things like that in there. I mean, there are guys like, I What's his name? Vondre planets. He was the big raw guy where he eat raw meat, like just straight up raw fish raw beef. I'm not sure I'd ever go that far. Okay, just because I wouldn't go all in on that. I think cooking is a good thing. It does. One kind of sanitize some of these things, but to it pre digest some of these foods and makes it more accessible for idi our digestive system. And man, if you're going to ever do raw meat, you better make sure you have a lot of hydrochloric acid production happening or you're at least taking some HCl and enzymes as an insurance policy.

Evan Brand: Yeah, that's hard work. And I think there was a book on that cooking made us human something about that how you know the evolutionary biologist go into cooking and help Cooking activates certain nutrients that you can't get from raw and therefore that helped increase the size of the human brain and things like that. So, I don't know not to get off so no, but But no- 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That's definitely real. Okay. Yeah, that's real. And then I tell my patients is when they have a lot of gut issues, think of cooking is pre digestion, right cooking is pre digestion. Now, does that mean we want to create a lot of heterocyclic amines or a lot of poly aromatic hydrocarbons through burning? No, we don't want to burn. But if we can cook that's excellent any, any additional charring that may happen you just consume a whole bunch of good plant nutrients with it and the antioxidants in those plant nutrients will neutralize any of the oxidative stress from the cooking of those foods.

Evan Brand: Yeah, you're absolutely correct with the cooking being a pre digestion because when I did have parasites, I was unable to do anything raw, even raw fruit. For example, if I would just do blueberries, for example, I would poop out blueberries that were undigested I was like, Well, what the heck is going on? And so if I hadn't even quote pre digested in terms of a smoothie, I was fine. But salads and leafy greens, you know, they tore up my gut for a long time until I was able to address my parasite infections reduce that toxic load, increase acids and enzymes go through the five or six hour approach that we talked about bringing in probiotics, knock out the Candida overgrowth that happened as well bring in some beneficial yeast like saccharomyces a lot of those things were were critical for me to expand my diet. I guess the one point I want to make is that the diet is something so many people focus on, but it's not the root cause in many cases, you could go to 20 different nutritionist, they'll put you on 20 different diets, but if you don't address the parasites, I don't care how strict or how good you are about avoiding, quote, food allergens, you won't get better if you don't address the underlying issue.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And you know, I kind of go back and forth on that because I've seen some people where the food's really just stressed out their guts so much, where their immune system was so compromised. They got an infection from it, like I find a lot of people where we can knock out their infection but they don't fix their doctor. I tend to find that they get reinfected. So I'm not saying that the food is 100%. But in some people would say larger percentage than others. Does that make sense? 

Evan Brand: True. Yeah, don't get me wrong. It's still important. But I'm just speaking to the people that are like, hey, if I just stick on this food elimination diet forever, all my problems will get better. But that's not magically going to make a grd infection go away, for example.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Correct. I've noticed clinically that patients that continue to eat gluten for instance, and we try to knock out like an H. pylori infection, I tend to find more reinfection on follow up tests, or people that really make the diet change, it's easier to knock out the infection. And I think a combination of that is number one, just less inflammation. And that less inflammation means your immune system can deal with the infection as well. And so when you're killing it out, the immune system can kind of okay, hey, we knocked out enough of that infection. Let me kind of help out and take over here as well. But if we have some of those stressful foods and the immune system is kind of still in corner, so to speak a little bit weak, and then we're relying fully on the herbs. So if we can kind of lean on, you know, the herbal strategies, as well as the diet and lifestyle strategies, it provides good synergy.

Evan Brand: Yeah, I would agree it makes perfect sense.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent. So a couple things I want to highlight because we talked about parasites is helping to improve our immune response when we knock them out, or if we're infection free, right, kind of my attitude is everyone has the right to be infection free and everyone has the right to have more than one infection going on. That's very possible. The second concern is these parasites can affect digestion. And what nutrients are we talking about? Well, we're talking about things like zinc and magnesium and selenium. These are very important minerals that need to get ionized. We need hydrochloric acid to ionize them so they can be soluble in our bloodstream and so we can absorb them and utilize them and transport them. We also know antibodies, right or immune cells. IGG, IGA IGA IGM, antibodies are made from protein. So we actually need protein to make our antibody. So if we have deficits or let's just say bottlenecks in our ability to digest and break down and utilize and assimilate and absorb protein that's going to be a problem. And then what about our fat soluble vitamins like vitamin A, we know is really important for the lung epithelium. I was worried about COVID-19 and lung health. Vitamin A is very important. What about vitamin D? Well, we get it from the sun, right? We also may take it supplementally and get some from our food. So we need good absorption there to take in our vitamin D. What about vitamin C that's a little bit easier. It's water soluble, but if we have poor absorption, it's possible we can have some bottlenecks, especially if our micro v lie in our small intestine are inflamed. Our micro villi are a little vacuum cleaners that suck up nutrients. So if we have inflamed or a trophic v ly from infections or food allergens, that's going to be a problem. And then what about like our sulfur based amino acids like cysteine, glutamine, glycine, these are the amino acids that make glutathione glutathione is one of our main Master antioxidants it helps with our detoxification pathways. Good at ions are really important redox nutrient and redox means it gives off electrons so when we have a lot of lung inflammation especially with COVID we need to make sure that we are giving off we have enough fluidify on to deal with and give off electrons to stabilize the free radicals oxidative stress, it's happening from the infection. Does that all make sense? 

Evan Brand: It does. It sounds like a mess when you say it all like that. But it is a mess, meaning you could really get disrupted from a hormonal perspective also, you kind of tied into the zinc and some of that but zinc is really important for mental health to you know, zinc is something that helps to balance out that zinc copper ratio. A lot of people have mental issues, whether it's schizophrenia, or OCD or ADHD or all sorts of stuff that can be tied into an imbalance zinc copper ratio. So you may think that your mood issue is completely just on its own and a psychiatrist would help but no, it could be totally related to the parasite infection. Then one other thing I wanted to say too is regarding the toxic load you mentioned not having enough of your sulfur based amino acids, these are the precursors to make Bluetooth ion, well then that happens. Now you start picking up more toxins. So if you get exposed to glyphosate or you get exposed to toxic mold and mycotoxins, now all of a sudden, you don't have any sort of mechanism to get rid of those things. So now you're even at a more disadvantage. And this is how people can, people that don't address these issues can become more sick over time. It's because now the original thing the parasite disrupted the mechanism to get rid of the toxin over here. So now you've got a toxin problem over here, and you've got a parasite problem over there. And we see how this thing can spin out of control. The good news is it's all completely reversible.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% and it's it's scary how it can spin out of control. I see it happen quite frequently. I know you kind of just echoed some of the toxicity aspect, but we know a lot of metals and various toxins, whether it's pesticides or mold toxins that They get removed from our system via the hepatic biliary system, right big words, you break it down a pedo, meaning liver, biliary, meaning kind of the bile ducts and gallbladder. And it dumps it out into the small intestine. So if we have poor digestion or the guts already inflamed, or we have gut permeability issues, it's possible we could reabsorb some of these toxins and have them go back into our system. So that's where having binders to kind of like bind it up so we can escort out better and then just having better better gut function to begin with. Because the better gut function we have one our immune system is less stressed to we're going to have better inflammatory, natural anti inflammatory capacity, because if our adrenals are stressed because of our guts, then we're going to have weakened cortisol levels, we're not going to be able to deal with inflammation. And of course, the more inflamed our gut is, the more permeability there is and the more chance that we're going to reabsorb these toxins and create more stress. That's why I always tell patients, you know, the first way to Work on toxicity issues is get your gut stabilized because that sets the foundation. So when we push detoxification pathways more and we dump more toxins into the gut, we have, you know, the right things in place to escort out of the body without reabsorbing it.

Evan Brand: Yep, well said and not to mention to these pathogens, they mess up the glue Khurana dacian pathway, and that's a good pathway that you can conjugate toxins and get them out of the body as well. So you mentioned it's the hepatic biliary system, you've got the glucose sanitation pathway that's messed up, you've got the reduced acids and enzymes, it's messed up. So yeah-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Methylation probably too.

Evan Brand: I'm sure because you don't have the nutrients to fuel it, right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And or you're not absorbing it as well right because b 12 absorption starts in the stomach, right and you make intrinsic factor to bind to the stomach. So if you have an inflamed gut, you know, you may not have enough of that intrinsic factor and then you absorb it later on and the helium of the end of the small intestine So if any inflammation there, it could really affect the absorption of that. And that's a key nutrient along with full later on methylation.

Evan Brand: Yeah, one other mechanism to just to help people wrap their heads around it is the amino acids. So now if all of a sudden you're not digesting your dietary proteins, it may be tough to put on muscle mass, you're putting in all this work in the gym, you're not getting anywhere, maybe you're actually gaining body fat, or you just can't build muscle or you've actually lost muscle mass, I lost significant amount of weight without trying despite his eating bison steak all the time, I continue to lose weight. And then the mental health piece, which I already hit on with the zinc and all of that. So if you don't have the amino acids, now you can't make neurotransmitters. So then you become more anxious, more depressed, more fatigue, your motivation goes down. You can't focus you hit on the brain fog earlier, just in the infection. But what about the infection induced malabsorption causing even more brain fog? So it's no surprise that these issues can affect every aspect of your life and you move to your sleep to your sex drive to your hormones. That's why it's really important to figure out what are you Against. And so that's where we come in with doing a good clinical history because we may uncover something like Justin always talks about a trip to Mexico and then boom, something happened, or was it you went swimming at the neighborhood pool or was it you took a round of antibiotics. So the history is important. But then of course we use and leverage the testing that is so far advanced above what the conventional gastro doctor using at this point, which is kind of sad. I hate that it's us. Why does it have to be us? We kind of have to be on the bleeding edge here because it's going to take a while for the conventional gastroenterology to catch up and I did all those conventional tests. So this is not the Poopoo it is just to say look, I did it. I did the barium scan you drink a terrible drink. You lay on this table, they flip you up the X ray you they found nothing and they prescribed an acid blocking drug and sent me home. They had no clue I had h pylori, which was reducing my acid What if I would have done that? I would have reduced my stomach acid even more I would have became even more sick. Luckily, I didn't go that route.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, you would have more nutrient deficiencies more compromised immune system. And again, you know your gut maybe a little bit less inflamed the short the short term but every you're not going to fixing the root cause and, and your nutrients that you need are going to be malabsorption. That makes a lot of sense. And I just kind of want to highlight people that are listening, you know, we're talking about immune stress and we were trying to switch the narrative to boosting and supporting our immune system is evident Dr. J saying right now Hey, if you want to have a stronger immune system, especially against COVID should you go do a parasite cleanse right now? No, I'm we're not saying that. But because if you are doing it indiscriminately, if you're not working with the practitioner, you may cause more stress right now because you don't have the foundations lined up ahead of time. So if you have immune stress, if you have gut stress, you need to be working with a practitioner, but at least work on some of the foundational supporting dietary strategies and nutrients to kind of get going. We already talked about some of these things, vitamin A, vitamin D, vitamin C, some kind of a paleo template as a starting point. Then work with a practitioner if you think there's other gut stressors going on, because you may actually make your immune system weaker if you don't have the right sequence in which you go after these infections, and that may be counterproductive if you're listening to this podcast saying, I want to make myself stronger in my immune function, and I'm going to go after and do a whole bunch of parasite cleanse, you may actually have the opposite effect. And we don't want you walking away with negative results.

Evan Brand: Yeah, it's a bit of a stressor, right? I mean, it takes work. That's why we talk about sometimes we've got to support somebody and sort of build up their foundation. Before we start picking the interior paint color of the house, you've got to get the foundation you got to get the walls you got to get the windows in because if you go straight to kill, kill, kill, you may feel worse, you may have die off and all that. Now you mentioned practitioner and of course we love helping people. So we want people to work with us so that we know the type of care they're going to receive. We know they're going to get the right testing. We know they're going to get the right protocol to fix the issue. But let's briefly talk about the DIY method because you and I I have so much stuff on our head, you and I both have courses that we're working on. Yep. And we have so many people that say, Well, I followed such and such cleanse online. And it's just like a one page PDF. It's like 20 different supplements that XYZ person says to buy, and then they do it. And then the person comes to us saying, Yeah, I did XYZ cleanse, and here I am, and they're no better. Maybe they're worse. Maybe let's just talk for you and I sake but for the general public to the Compare and contrast of trying to lump everything into a one page PDF document, take all these herbs, everybody on the planet can do this protocol versus more one on one personalized care.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, so 100% I mean, you're gonna have people recommend a whole bunch of herbals, recommend a whole bunch of probiotics, maybe some digestive support, and you are not looked at as an individual. When we look at a patient, we're going to make sure you're ready for that next step. There's gonna be a sequencing and how things are added in. We're going to have to Some objective markers to also quantify how good or how bad your stress handling systems are, whether it's we're looking at certain nutrient levels, or we're looking at hormone levels, or we're looking at gut permeability or inflammation in the gut. So there's a whole bunch of things that we're looking at that are quite objective that help us gauge if you're ready, and if you're not ready, what we need to do to get you there. So it's good to have these objective markers, when you just have a PDF sheet with a couple of herbs on there, and some probiotics, and you just say, Take these here, and then No offense, if things go sideways. What do you do?

Evan Brand: Yeah, and so it gets it gets tricky. It does. And so this is kind of a, you know, a little secret. It's not really a secret because we've talked about it before. Justin's working on a course I'm working on a course and we're having this battle between how do you take the hands on hand holding clinical piece that can really steer people from going in the wrong direction? How do you put that into something like that? So that's what we're, we're kind of in the middle of working on now. And You mentioned some of these, maybe some of the lab testing that we can look at. And that's that's kind of where we're different is it's not just, here's a protocol, it's going to be, hey, there's actually this test on the side. If you want to do that along with the course, you can look at that, based on that interpretation you can get on that lab. Now, you know, if you're ready, boom, then you can go into something that's a little bit more broad spectrum and have more success.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Correct. And we're doing a little bit more cutting edge testing regarding some of the PCR test which is a little bit more sensitive. Some of the baselines tool engine testing that's run at some of the conventional labs can missed off. A lot of times it's not even run but most of the time it's not gonna miss stuff. Number two, we may even run some urinary tests to look at systemic yeast issues or bacterial issues or maybe even breath tests. I see many even just conventional gastro is they're not even doing the breath stuff which a lot more of the cutting edge gastroenterologist like Dr. Pimentel at Cedar Sinai, they're running breath tests but a lot of the conventional Doc's aren't they may run a scope. They may see there's some inflammation and then not know what to do next. Maybe recommend some acid blockers or some steroids or some, some kind of a biologic salomina, Allah, whatever to kind of get the inflammation down. But then what's the cause? Right? Where's the root cause coming from? Is it a food issue? Is your gut permeability? Is there an infection are there multiple infections, so we really want to line things up in a way. And some of the conventional testing can be okay for end stage or more extreme stuff. But it's tend to not be great when you're in that in between phase. And even people that are sick, I've seen come back as pretty normal. And that can be very, very frustrating as well. 

Evan Brand: Well, I had a female client last week, that same thing happened before she came to me. She went to her conventional Doc, they referred her to a gastro, she brought up all the bloating and burping and burning and all of that. And of course, they don't say anything besides here's an acid blocker and let's go get a scope done. Guess what the camera or the capsule or some piece of technology for the endoscope actually got stuck inside of her and left inside of her. And now she's having all these complications from it. Well, she's got to go back get, you know, put under anesthesia again, get cut open so they can cut out whatever piece of the equipment broke off inside of her. And we've already run the stool testing and figured out what's going on. She had an H pylori infection and a couple of bacterial overgrowth, Sky High inflammation was through the roof. We've got her on some calming herbs and some general anti microbials. To start, she's already 50% better. And yet, you know, she did this scope, which revealed nothing so wildly unfortunate how it can happen.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. Well, I think today was a really good chat. And I you know, I appreciate the fact that, you know, we're talking theoretically, but practically, right? This is theory in practice, right? So we're actually applying all these things. It's not just something that we kind of spit balled on on the dry erase board. It's something that's been used hundreds, if not thousands of times. So you know, just to kind of juxtapose us versus other Talking Heads online. Most of the things out there may be decent information, but maybe more theoretical, not practical. So the things that we're doing, and we're talking about are actually being used, right it's all been set in Emotion we have a lot of hundreds of, if not thousands of clinical data points. So just kind of want to put that out there to kind of be a good value add for the patient's listening, and also provide a little bit more confidence, people that are listening as well in regards to what we're talking about.

Evan Brand: Yeah, that sounds good. Well, that sounds all good. But what does that actually mean? Well, that means that as soon as we press into recording today, we're jumping right on the call with clients to implement the same stuff that we're talking about. So that's what it means. And we love what we do. So if you do need help, I've suffered tremendously. And I think through the suffering, it's really, it's really taught us both about number one, how to push through and number two, how to gain all the puzzle pieces you need, because there's different stages of your journey where you may need this puzzle piece, pull that over here now implement that, and it's a little tricky sometimes. So if you need help, please reach out. You can schedule a call with Dr. J at My website is, and we'll be back again soon. So take good care.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent. You guys have a phenomenal week. Take care. Bye.


Audio Podcast:

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