Heavy Metals and the Gut Connections – Podcast #175

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In today’s podcast, Dr. Justin Marchegiani and Evan Brand discuss the link between heavy metals and the gut connections. Listen as they talk about how heavy metals affect the gallbladder functions and the outline of things that affect these functions. Also, know the different tests that can detect heavy metals.

Learn how to treat and prevent leaky gut and other gut problems from occurring. Find out the best natural treatments these two will share. Keep watching!

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

In this episode, we cover:

01:22   The Heavy Metals and Gut Connection

06:40   Factors Affecting Gallbladder Function

11:20   Heavy Metals Disrupts Detoxification in the Gut Microbiota

12:46   Herbs that Supports the Liver

14:33   Cholesterol’s an Important Building Block for Hormones




Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey, guys. It’s Dr. J here in the house. Evan, how are we doing man?

Evan Brand: Happy Monday to you. Life is good. The sky is blue. I can’t complain.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it, man.Well, today, we’re gonna chat about heavy metals and the gut connection. I think a lot of people— they get myopically focused on heavy metals and they— One of the first things that people want to do is they want to do this crazy detox when patients first come into care. You have all these docs that want to do that. And again, I think there’s a time and a place for heavy metal uhm— testing. There’s the time and a place for heavy metal detox. One of the biggest things that, you know, we want to chat about today is, “healthy gut function actually helps detoxify heavy metals. Getting rid of parasites can also help de— decrease heavy metals. Also, bringing in healthy gut bacteria, the Lactobacillus rhamnosus species has been shown to actually decrease certain heavy metals as well. So, gut function— Again, good hepatobiliary function, meaning, your liver and your gallbladder dumping bile. Bile helps break down fat. And again, biles also gonna have a whole bunch of potential toxins. And if it may go out via the stool as well. So, healthy gut function, healthy liver and bile function is really important for fat digestion as well as heavy metal reduction. So, let’s kind of just talk about heavy metals and how it connects to the gut.

Evan Brand: Yeah. So, the first thing is, if you’ve got a leaky gut, that’s a problem. So, you’ve  eventually got to fix leaky gut. And of course, as you mentioned, people are typically doing it in the wrong order. They want to go straight to a heavy metal detox as the first step to their protocol. But, if you’ve got a leaky gut, we know that you’ve likely gut a— a leaky brain. Now, I haven’t looked too much into the brain. I don’t even know how you would do this with a test. I guess it would have to be postmortem, like, how— How could you even test heavy metals in the brain. Like, we know that with a leaky  brain that’s possible, but how would you even test that to prove what we’re saying? I feel like it’d be hard. It’s like, what do you do? You cut a piece of the brain out and test it for metals? Like how would you even do that?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, regarding the heavy metals, I mean, it’d be hard that you’d have to do Tissue Burden Test. So, like, you’d have to use like a chelation agent, like a DMPS or a DMSA. Uh— I like DMPS ‘cause they shown that that can kind of like scrape the surface of the blood-brain barrier. Dr. Rashid Buttar talks about, like— if here’s your blood-brain barrier, there’s some metals right on the periphery. The DMPS just kind of comes by and just— just sloughs off that surface heavy metal uh— amount that’s hanging out there. So, that’s kind of the benefit that you get from the DMPS. It just kind of comes by the surface and just kind of scrapes off what’s hanging out there versus going in there, and uhm— you know, throw on a rock in a beehives, right? [crosstalk] That’s the big issue with metals is— I— I know a chiropractor colleague of mine that did a heavy metal chelation off the bat. He did like an IV thing and he did just kind of whim into that first, and he literally got paralyzed from it. He had parts of his body that were paralyzed and almost like, you know, with that— with the hand, uh— hyperflexion like that, right? That kind of thing, like a stroke, but he still has it to this day from doing an excessive amount of heavy metal uh— liberation off the bat. And Dr. Kharrazian’s talked about, you know, when he first got in the functional medicine doing some IV heavy metal chelations, people getting incredibly sick. So, I really want to put our focus to patients that are listening to this, and like, “Oh, I’m myopically focused on heavy metals,” think about as we get the gut better, as we get digestion better, or actually getting heavy metals reduced.

Evan Brand:  Yeah. So like, let’s talk about— You mentioned the bile already, but let’s go back to that for a second. We know that when we get your stool test back, if we look at your elevated fecal fat, to stay out of crit marker, we can know. Okay. You’re not digesting fats well. You’re probably not making enough bile. If you’ve got s— a sluggish liver, sluggish gallbladder function. To me that seems like one of the— the pinch points, if you will, of the metals.Could you speak on that a bit? Like me— the gallbladder and the metal connection?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. A lot of the metals are dumped out via the hepatobiliary system, right? This is kind of like the big issue with a lot of people and potential, like, vaccination issues. Like, there’s some Aluminum ins— in a lot of the vaccines now, and a lot of the people are concerned, because in that first year to a life that hapalic— that hepatobiliary function isn’t quite dialed in yet. So, if you’re getting exposed to some metals, it may be we don’t have quite the mechanisms to get rid of those metals, right? That’s some of the people on the Aluminum side uhm— there’s still a little bit of thimerosal in the flu vaccine still, which is a— Ethyl mercury compound. So, having healthy hepatobiliary function, meaning— hepato means liver, biliary means bile and bile ducts. So, you have liver, and then that kind of like, you have the— the bile production that happens in the liver, and then it goes down to the gallbladder, and the gallbladder holds it and concentrates it. And then, when you have fat in your diet, that produces a hormone called CCK, Cholecystokinin, which then causes the gallbladder to contract, and it produces bile salt, which then help emulsify and break down the fat. So, imagine like a big fatty, like, you know— Let’s say you cooked a bacon in the pan, right? And, you feel that the bacon coating after is kind of uh— dried, so to speak. Well, that’s like— it’s just like stuck there, right? Imagine you get some nice Dawn soap, and you break it up. It emulsifies. It breaks down that fatty coating. And that’s kind of what’s bile salts do. It’s like that Dawn dish soap. It breaks it down, so your body can absorb a lot of those fat-soluble nutrients— Vitamin A, Vitamin D, Vitamin E, Vitamin K, the EPA fats in fish oil, the DHA fats in fish oil, the healthy saturated fats as well. So, makes sense.

Evan Brand: Yeah, it does. So, what’s happening with the low-fat diet then, if you’re not getting that gallbladder to fire, and therefore secrete bile. To me, since like, you’ve got a problem on your hands.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, not having enough fat in your diet is like not changing the oil in your car, right? Everyone has the experience if you gone too long without changing the oil, what happens? It starts getting sludgy, right? And you don’t have that lubricant there for your engine, but it starts getting sludgy. And, in our gallbladder analogy, it starts actually crystallizing and forming stones. That’s part of the reason why people can have gallbladder stone issues— gallstone issues uh— is because these stones crystallize because they’re not moving. So, it’s like a river— It’s like a fast-flowing river when it gets cold. If the river’s not moving, it can freeze, right? If it’s moving really well, it’s hard for a moving river to at least freeze, especially when it gets colder. It may still freeze but it’s gonna be harder for it to freeze. So, think of the bile that’s moving. It’s just not gonna form and— and crystallize and get the stones going because it’s got too much inertia behind it.

Evan Brand: And then maybe we can chat about stress a bit. I mean, heavy metals are definitely a stress but, what about adrenals and emotional stress, and— Let’s say, you’re eating too fast, or you’re not chewing food well. No. I want to try to outline a few different things that would affect gallbladder function. Let’s say, you are eating a whole foods diet. You’re getting good fats in. You could still have gallbladder problems. Just ‘cause you eat high-fat or higher fat, doesn’t mean that you’re not po— It’s not possible for you to still have gallbladder issues and therefore, fat digestion problems.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, can you repeat your question?

Evan Brand: The question is, “What are all the factors that would— that would affect gallbladder function or suppress gallbladder function, even if you had fat in the diet, too? You heard that part about…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: …low fat [crosstalk] being bad? [crosstalk] Well, I eat— I eat a lot of fat. So, what other things could affect the gallbladder?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, number one, toxins can be more fat-soluble, so we want to choose healthy fat-soluble sources or, you know, healthy— you know, fats. Right? Not with the whole bunch of pesticides and chemicals that tend to be a more magnet for kep— for— for— for chemicals, right? Toxins. So, metals are toxin as well. So, if we are, you know— If we are having metals, right? They’re gonna be in the bile. They’re gonna be in the fat. And ideally, the body’s gonna sequester those and pull those out. If we have additional metals, we can give binders like charcoal or clays, or modified citrus pectin or chlorella, which kind of help bind those things up, and help us kind of escort out of the body better. Now, when we have excess adrenal stress, that activates the sympathetic fight or flight nervous system. And when the fight or flight nervous system is activated, it’s gonna make it harder for us to increase stomach acid levels with decreased stomach acid levels. It’s also gonna decrease enzyme levels. So, -when we have lower stomach acid, we need high stomach acid to activate our Cholecystokinin, that’s CCK. And then, CCK’s what stimulates the gallbladder from emptying so, if we have good stomach acid levels, high stomach acid levels, we’re gonna have good enzyme levels. We’re gonna be able to break down the fats better. We’re gonna be able to, then, increase the CCK. And then, that’s gonna stimulate the gallbladder, which will empty, and that’s gonna have potential toxins in the— in the bile as well. So, that bile’s gonna potentially have the ability to break down fat, but there also will be some toxins that will be dumped out. So, we have to have healthy stress levels ‘cause if we have really slow motility, we could potentially reabsorb a lot of those toxin that’s in our bile. That’s why we want good motility. Low thyroid function can create low motility. SIBO and— and dysbiosis, and infections can create low motility. They can also create fast motility, which again, the problem with that is then we create a malabsorption environment. And then we talked about stress in the adrenals in that sympathetic nervous system, decreasing stomach acid, decreasing enzymes, decreasing CCK. which then decreases bile flow. Decreased bile flow is gonna prevent those metals being removed via hepatobiliary, liver to gallbladder, gallbladder back into the intestines, then intestines into the stool, and stool into the toilet.

Evan Brand: Yep, well said. So, the whole cascade can really just fall apart at the top of the food chain, as usual, with digestion. So, if you’re eating while you’re stressed out, you’re not chewing your food, your rushing through a meal, maybe your playing on your phone, or reading a newspaper while your eating— just anything that’s generally taking you away from the present moment, which is the parasympathetic process of digestion. If you’re in sympathetic, you will not digest. So, you’ve got to chill out. You’ve got to relax. I tell people if you’ve got five minutes before and after meal just to breathe and just relax— you know, even my wife, I’ll get on her sometimes. She’ll be eating the last bite of food, and then she’s scraping the plate into the garbage.l It’s like, “No. No. No. Slow down. Sit at the table for a few minutes. Chill out.” Because if you can start that first cascade, “Okay. I have food in my belly,” your in a good place. Now, you brought up infections, so let’s go a little deeper there. We’ve chatted about H. pylori lots of times but I think it’s worth mentioning here with heavy metals because if you have H. pylori that bacterial infection is gonna shut down HCL. So, if you’re low on Hydrochloric acid, now the gallbladder’s basically not gonna get this message to secrete, and therefore, you’re not gonna have the ability to push metals out. The fecal fat’s gonna go up, and it could all happen just from H. pylori alone.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: A hundred percent. I have one study here. I want to just kind of read the abstract here a little bit. Uhm— so, off the bat, they talked about the gastrointestinal epithelium having several functions. Number one, being a physical barrier ensuring mucosal immune response and excluding or detoxifying harmful intestinal content. So, healthy gut bacteria has a major effect on detoxifying healthy content. So, heavy metals can also disrupt the gut microbiota, but low and poor microbiota, poor healthy gut bacteria can also have an effect on detoxification. So, this is why eating really good foods that don’t contain xenobiotics or foreign antibiotic sources, meat that’s not, you know, conventional, so we’re not getting exposure to antibiotics. Just not getting exposure to antibiotics in our overall life, in general, will have a big help on that. Not eating excess sugar— all of these things can affect our microbiome. Having infections like you mentioned earlier, Evan, with the H. pylori can also affect the microbiome. And then, with poor microbiota balance that can potentially affect our body’s ability to rid itself of these toxins.

Evan Brand: Yep. So, let’s go into some of the— the binder conversation a bit. You hit on clay. You hit on— What was the other one you mentioned? Could—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Activated [crosstalk] charcoal is good. Uh— modified citrus pectin is really good. Chlorella— different types of Chlorella is excellent to bind up Mercury in the gut. Chlorella is not great at pulling out Mercury in the body but it’s really good by pulling it out in the gut.

Evan Brand: Okay.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhm— The modified citrus pectin is really great ‘cause that’s been shown to reduce Lead. They’ve done studies in— in retirement homes where they’ve seen that significantly reduced Lead. And I like that because it’s not like a liberator. It’s not like maybe a chelation compound that may liberate and— and you know, throw a rock in the beehives, so to speak. It’s more just cleaning up what’s hanging out.

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, it’s a little bit different than like a DMSA or a DMPS— those kind of compounds.

Evan Brand: Let’s chat about herbs a bit, too. I mean, we use a lot of things that can help support the liver.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Cilantro’s great, right?

Evan Brand: What about like a burdock? We’ve got Milk thistle. We’ve got uh— Vitamin A we use a lot. Beetroot powder is good. Goldenrod can be good, too.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Those are all really good for bioflow. Like a lot of those herbs are very tonifying and supporting to oxidative stress in the liver, like Milk thistle or Silymarin, like the Burdock, or the Dandelion root, or the Fringe tree root for fringe reactant. These are really good for liver and gallbladder flow. So, they allow things to flow better. Better flow, things go out into the uh— intestines, where they should go, and that’s gonna then help a fat breakdown. It’s also gonna with toxin elimination. And again, we can also increase the fiber, right, which is basically what modified Citrus pectin is ‘cause that finder wil— uh— bu— uh— fiber will prevent the bile from being recycled. And why is that helpful? Well, if the bile has maybe more heavy metals in it. It may not be the kind of bile that we want to recycle. We may want to get rid of it. So, like I mentioned, when you dumped out the bile, it’s gonna serve for fatty acid digestion. But it’s also may have some toxins in it, as well. So, our body likes to recycle a lot of that uhm— bile, uhm— that’s why like the Cholestyramines, which are like the older statin— They’re not really a statin but they’re cholesterol-lowering drugs, and they were basically, bile sueuestory agents— Bile salt sequestering, that means it would bind to the bile, and pull it out. Now, guys like Ritchie Shoemaker are doing that as a way to eliminate mycotoxins. Did I say a lot of mycotoxins are in the bile as well. So, they’re trying to remove the mycotoxins in mold by giving bile salt sequestering agents. We can deal with different fibers as well, and that prevents that bile from being reabsorbed. But— Again, bile’s primarily Cholesterol. What’s cholesterol, guys? Cholesterol’s a building block for a lot of your hormones. If you look at the hormonal cascade, we have cholesterol. We have pregnenolone, and then pregnenolone shoots out in the progesterone, shoots out in the estrogen, shoots out in the mineralocorticoids, like aldosterone that help with mineral regulation. And then, we have cortisol and the stress hormones on the other side. So, cholesterol’s really important. It’s not that it’s bad and you want to get rid of it, it’s that it also could have a— uh— be a magnet in the form of bile salts towards metals. And if we have metal issues, we may want to use some kind of a natural fiber to knock it out. To—

Evan Brand: Uh— So— So, if cholesterol is too low, like with the statin medication, or if cholesterol is— let’s say, in the 400’s, I guess— is there an issue being too high or too low?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, it definitely can be. I mean, it can be. So, if cholesterol’s too high, it can mean there’s low thyroid function, potentially. Uhm— Cholesterol’s like a band-aid, so think about it as if you’ve walked into a thorn bush. You’re gonna need more band-aids that there are less band-aids, right? A lot more because of the inflammation from the thorn. So, cholesterol could be laying down more internal band-aids in the arteries in the area that’s inflamed because of stress and inflammation. So, that’s also possible, too. You could be hypocholesterolemia. Again, this is gonna be something that will be chronic throughout your whole life because the enzyme uhm— that stimulates cholesterol, the HMG-CoA reductase enzyme is overactive, so, that’s gonna stimulate more cholesterol production. And then also, regarding uhm— you know, cholesterol, I think some of the research in the— I think it was the Framingham Heart Study showed like 320 or higher is where the risk factor of cholesterol could be bad for your heart. Right. That’s where it can kind of increase. So, that 320 point, we like to look at the ratio between HdL and total cholesterol. We like it— you know, below 4 ½ to 4, and that’s a pretty good way to look at it. So, if you’re HDL’s around 80 or 90, and your— let’s say, four times 90 is 360; 360 may not be bad for cholesterol if your HDL is within that four (4) to 4 ½ level. I— I may be okay with that, but we have to look at the thyroid. We have to look at the systemic inflammation. Uhm— We have to kind of take the whole entire body in— in perspective of what’s happening.

Evan Brand: Yeah, ‘cause you can’t just take somebody and say, “Everyone has to be below 200 with total cholesterol.” This doesn’t makes sense.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And again, the reason why I like doing like bile salts sequestering compounds, whether it’s natural stuff, like citrus pectins, or whether it’s like a cholestyramine. The reason why it’s not as bad as astatine is because, number one, Astatine’s blocking the enzyme that makes cholesterol. The problem is, that enzyme is also active for the— the Mevalonic acid pathway— that same pathway that makes internal CoQ10. So, the problem with the statin is your blocking the enzyme that also makes CoQ10, and CoQ10’s really important for your mitochondria and your Krebs cycle generating ATP and energy. And that’s a problem, because if you look at antibiotics and a lot of the pharmaceutical drugs, just type in any drug, or any antibiotic, and type in the word mitochondrial dysfunction that these medications have some negative effects on the mitochondria. So, if you’re doing that, you’re taking Astatine, which automatically lowers ther— the— the building blocks that run that mitochondria, CoQ10 Ubiquinone, right? That’s gonna affect everything. That’s gonna make your mitochondria really sluggish, and maybe decrease your ability to generate energy. Maybe, increase your chance for chronic fatigue, another adrenal and thyroid issues. And, CoQ10’s also really important for autoimmune thyroid. It really helps with thyroid inflammation, so you’re really more prone to other inflammatory conditions ‘cause those anti-inflammatory nutrients aren’t there. Plus, if you’re decreasing your cholesterol levels uhm— artificially, with Astatine, you’re also gonna have less building blocks for your hormones. And the, cholesterol levels below— Let’s see here. It’s on my Dry-erase board. Cholesterol levels below 160 increases your chance of psychotic illness, Alzheimer’s, Dementia.

Evan Brand: Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You’ll see a video about that later on today. So, low cholesterol— And that’s actually NIH study, right there. Off the bat—

Evan Brand: I’ve seen that with depression, too. There’s— There’s…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hmhmn—

Evan Brand: …other literature out there about depression with cholesterol being too low, too. So—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly, a hundred percent. [crosstalk] No doubt, man.

Evan Brand: That’s a trip. Well, well said about that. Uh— regarding the— the instage for people with heavy metals, the timeline is key here. So, remember, this is a— a marathon. This is a long-term thing. I don’t think heavy metals are something where you could just come in, do a couple months, or maybe even three— six months, and then just say, I’m done with metals. ‘Cause it just doesn’t work like that. The environment is just too toxic with metals. So, this is really something that I don’t know how you want to frame it, Justin, but to me, it’s something that should be daily.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, man. I think it’s gonna be a long-term thing. I think the big exposure for heavy metals for most people is gonna be Mercury filli— fillings. Uhm— Most people call them Silver fillings, but they’re greater than 50 percent Mercury, so— you know, we call them what they are. They’re Mercury Amalgam fillings. Uhm— Some people talk about fish being a big source of Mercury. I think it depends. Uh— A natural chelator of Mercury is Selenium, and Selenium— If you eat fish that are higher in Selenium in relationship to Mercury, that’s gonna— You’re automatically gonna have more of a chelator that will help with the reduction of Mercury. So, like Skipjack tuna is really high in Selenium to Mercury, while the Alaskan Sockeye Salmon uhm— Cod Haddock— So, my in site— I— if— We’ll put it up there. A good Selenium to Mercury ratio type of fish, so you can see where the Mercury’s much higher than Selenium. And again, if you want to consume some of these fish, and you’re a little bit, you know, on the edge about it, you’ll— say, you’re pregnant, or you’re just want to be careful, you can always take a little bit of Chlorella with some fish or some activated charcoal. I’m okay with that, too. But, just know that Selenium is gonna be a natural chelator for it. And also, Selenium’s really important for thyroid inflammation and thyroid conversion. It’s a building block for Glutathione, so, it’s a cofactor with Glutathione production, and it’s also gonna be uhm— tsp— the enzyme 5-deiodinase enzyme that activates T4 to T3. Your inactive to active thyroid hormone will come from Selenium as well.

Evan Brand: Yeah. You got to have at least what, 200 mics. And then sometimes, with autoimmunity, we may even bump it up closer to like a 400 hundred microgram daily of Selenium.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Yeah, 400 microgram may be a really good spot, supplementally. You know, anywhere between 400, supplementally, to maybe an additional 400 in your diet,a s well.

Evan Brand: And, what do you do for fish? How often? What are you doing for fish?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I do one to two times a week, at least. I do Skipjack tuna, a lot of times. That’s got a very high Selenium to Mercury ratio. I also consume it with, maybe some extra really good fats and a lot of the good vegetables along with it. Uh— if I go out and do Sushi, I will typically uhm— bring some activated charcoal along with me, just to be on the safe side.

Evan Brand: I’m wonder— I mean, with the charcoal, it’s like if you’re eating that around the meal time, are you sabotaging yourself in terms of absorbing other nutrients from that meal?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I mean, I don’t think a hundred percent. I mean, definitely less, but you kind of have to factor in. You know, if you’re more worried about some of the potential toxins that are in there, then, I would always air on the side of taking some activated charcoal. It’s not gonna soak everything up, but—

Evan Brand: Right. So, [crosstalk] you got to choose your battles.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I mean, it’s an adsorbing compound, so it— it’s like a magnet. So, it doesn’t just like bind the stuff, like indiscriminately. It has a— an— a magnetic-like attraction to pull these toxins in.

Evan Brand: Yep. Yeah, that make’s sense.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s an adsorbent, not an absorbent. Right. Absorb is like— Think of a sponge absorbing a whole bunch of fluid on— on a countertop. ANd, adsorbent is like— remember back in like, grade school, you see the thing with the— with the Iron fillings, and then you put a magnet over it and all the Iron fillings jump towards the magnet. It’s kind of like that.

Evan Brand: Yep, well said. That’s cool. That makes a lot more sense to visualize it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hmhmn—

Evan Brand:  Let’s look at some of these questions to see if any of these are pertinent to the— to the equation here.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Let’s do it.

Evan Brand: Uh— We had one from Tessa. She said, “If you have low Iron, does this indicate possible heavy metal toxicity?”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: If you have low Iron, hard to say. I mean, I would look at it as, you know, “Are you a Vegan vegetarian?” If you’re a female, “Are you— are you having excessive menstruation?” I would look at those first, number one. number two, there could be malabsorption in the gut. So, I would look at that first. I wouldn’t look at— I wouldn’t jump to the heavy metals with low Iron levels.

Evan Brand: Yeah. I would say, look at infections, too.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mn—

Evan Brand: ‘Cause Justin and I are seeing a lot of [crosstalk] parasites.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: —sorption.

Evan Brand: Also, we’re seeing uh— worms. And a lot of these worms, like Hookworm, they can also cause Anemia and steal your Iron. So, definitely get a stool test run. Look for all these big bugs and see if you can find it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hundred percent.

Evan Brand: Uh— Here’s one from Addy. She experiences Chronic Fatigue intermittently. She has a doctor’s visit tomorrow. What kind of labs should she ask for? Uh— Addy, if you’re going to a conventional doctor, even if you’ve request a lab, which I would recommend, and Justin would probably say the same, is an Organic Acids Test, so you can look into mitochondrial function, as well as liver detox function, Glutathione, amino acids. Conventional docs is  not gonna have a clue what you’re talking about. You could try, but that’s what I would look at if I were looking at Chronic Fatigue. And then also, you could try getting a salivary adrenal test run, because if you have Cortisol that’s too high or Cortisol that’s too low— If you’re not in the Goldilocks zone, you could be Chronically Fatigued that way. I know I was when I had adrenal problems. So, I would say those two tests. Justin, what do you say?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I mean— So, you said the adrenals, right? And you said [crosstalk] thyroid?

Evan Brand: I said the Oat…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, yes.

Evan Brand: …and adrenals.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, and adrenal, yeah. I would add probably thyroid to that as well, because you get off three factors of the energy system, right? You have the mitochondrium nutrients, which usually picked up in the Oat. You have the adrenal, which will affect the Cortisol— The Cortisol, the Glucocorticoid steroid— Gluco meaning blood sugar and energy, and then thyroid’s gonna be your— your metabolic thermostat. So, those are gonna be the big three. But just know, like, you’re conventional med— If you’re trying to get functional medicine care in a conventional medical model, alright, i— i— it’s like gym and a square peg in a circle hole. It’s just not gonna work. They’re not gonna work. They’re gonna run TSH. They’re gonna look at you about mitochondria and be like, “Yeah. I don’t know what you’re talking about there.” And then, Cortisol-wise, they’ll say, “Well. I don’t think you have Cushing’s or Addison’s because you don’t have any of the symptoms. And then, the— ma— They may say, “Okay. Let’s run an ACTH Stim Test.” Maybe, “Let’s run a Cortisol Serum.” If they— If they placate you, right? But that’s not gonna give you the data you need ‘cause a lot of what we’re talking about are functional imbalances, not pathological diseases.

Evan Brand: `Agreed. Yeah. Well said. I— I would say her only— her only shot or her best shot would be using the conventional doctor to get the bloodwork done. But, you’ve really got to pound them that you want more than the TSH. You would want to make sure that you get also the free T3, the free T4, the reverse T3, if you can, the TPO antibody, which is your thyroid peroxidase antibody, and then your TG, which is your thyroglobulin antibodies. I’d also give Vitamin D, get your B12 levels checked. That would be great too. Maybe red blood cell Magnesium— That’s what you could use a conventional doc for. If the— If you’re lucky, they’ll run those extra markers. But if they just do TSH, you’re wasting your time. So, make sure. Make sure. Make sure. Triple make sure, they do the antibodies for you— TPO and TG.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it. Hundred percent, makes sense. What do you think next for questions here, Evan?

Evan Brand: Uh— Let’s see here. Most of these are off-topic, so I don’t want to divert us. Too bad. Uh—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. If you guys are asking questions, we love the questions. Try to keep it as much on topic as possible. And again, if you’re liking the show, give us a thumbs up, give us a share. We love the exposure. We want to help more people. That’s our mission. And again, the more exposure we get, the more we can help more people. Plus, we want to answer your questions as well.

Evan Brand: Yup. Here’s one. So, Tessa asked here, how do you increase your stomach acid? Take digestive enzymes, just eat certain foods, or both? Uh— First, you got to figure out if your stomach acid’s low, why would your stomach acid be low? We hit on H. pylori being a big cause of low stomach acid. Also…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: …eating while you’re stressed, eating in a rush, not chewing your food, just any lifestyle stressors that can impact stomach acid levels. What else would you add, Justin?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. So, She’s got the cart before the horse. It’s the— the HCl causes the low enzyme levels to the most part, because the HCl’s a trigger for activating Pepsin, Pepsinogen to Pepsin. That’s an enzyme. And, it’s also the trigger for activating a lot of uh— enzyme released from the pancreas. So, we need to increase acidity. So, the first thing you can do is work on the stress. Like you mentioned, chewing your food up helps increase the surface area. And then, if you want, you could add in some digestive stimulators, like a little bit of lemon juice or a little bit of Apple cider vinegar right before your meal. And you could even work your way up to some supplemental HCl. In my line, we use HCl Supreme. And we may also add in some supplemental enzymes, and we— we do them separately with people that have a lot of digestive issues because of Atrophic Gastritis, meaning their gut lining’s so thin they may be only able to handle a small amount of HCl but a larger amount of enzymes. And if we give HCl and enzymes together, we have to increase it in that ratio versus we can stop where the HCl starts to irritate, and go back a little bit. And then, we can continue to up the enzymes accordingly, so that’s why we do it that way. But, of course, we’re always focused on root cause, first: stress, chewing, not hydrating with food, uhm— you know— getting rid of the H. pylori, getting rid of the dysbiosis. But then, using the supplements to help support your gut, kind of like you would— you know— be on crutches if you broke your ankles. Kind of the same philosophy.

Evan Brand: Yup. Well said. And— and wer— we’re going a little bit more conservative with our dose of HCl, so if you look at something like a now food super enzyme, they’re gonna have a bunch of enzymes but they’ve got like 700 or 800 milligram, nearly, of Betaine Hydrochloric acid. That could be too much for a lot of our clients because if they have gut bugs or other infections that’s irritating, creating that Gastritis you mentioned. That’s too much. So, if you look at our formulas, we go a bit more conservative. Like [crosstalk] 200 hundred milligram would be a starting place. Two hundred milligram Betaine— You may want to start there, just because if you’ve got issues, you may throw 6— 7— 800 in and you might do— do more harm than good, and we don’t want that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Again, the people that are more sensitive, they’re gonna know. And if you don’t know, just start with the— a tablespoon of Apple cider vinegar. If you do okay there, then you could probably start a little bit higher and work your way up.

Evan Brand: Dilute it or— You’re saying dilute it with a little bit of water, or—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think you could just shoot it down straight.

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I mean, for me, I just rather shoot it down straight and get it done with ‘cause it’s so terrible. [laughs]

Evan Brand: Oh, yeah. [laughs]

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You could always do a shot of lemon juice, as well.

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: ‘Cause that gets the digestive support done.

Evan Brand: Yup. Are you saying just for the test or just regularly you would do a shot ACV? I don’t know if that would affect the teeth or not if it’s— if it’s touching your teeth.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh— I— I’d be okay with it. It’s not gonna— It’s n9ot bathing in it, right? You know—

Evan Brand: Right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: The acid that in your mouth that sits around your teeth, primarily is from sugar, right? The staph mutan, the bacteria in the mouth, eats a lot of the— the sugar in carbohydrate and then spits off all these acids. So, it’s more of the sugar consumption that creat— creates the acid via the gut— via the bacteria in the mouth.

Evan Brand: True. True. That’s true. Well said.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I would think maybe that ACV may even kill some of that bacteria as well.

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Acetic acid— you know, a lot of these critters don’t— they don’t like a uhm— you know, acids like that.

Evan Brand: Yup. Yup. I think there’s one more question here that was on topic— kind of on topic from Neem here. He asked, uh— “How do you go about reintroducing foods after Candida, SIBO, or other infections?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: One at a time. One food at a time, every three to four days. Lower those and then increment it up. Any negative symptoms— ANy negative symptoms pull that food out.

Evan Brand: How— How do you approach it? I know there are certain people that say, “Oh, there’s uh— AIP reintroduction. You’ve got to start with like egg yolk, and then egg white, and then nuts.” Have you seen a big difference in the order of operation…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: …[crosstalk] or is it really just whatever food?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I do. I have an autoimmune handout, Autoimmune Reintroduction Diet handout…

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …on my blog post. Take a look at that. We’ll try to have it posted in the show notes. But, I try to always start with like egg yolks over the egg, because some people can handle the egg yolk but not the egg and the egg whites. Right? I always like soft poached like sof the yolk is runny versus fully-cooked because of the deoxidation and the rancidification of the cooking process. So, soft yolks before going to a solid yolk. You know, uhm— and then egg whites whole eggs seconds. Right? And then next would be Ghee before butter, and then one nut at a time, one seed at a time, one nightshade at a time. That’s kind of a good general order to do it, because some people can handle the— the egg yolk soft and not cooked, or they just can’t handle the egg white at all. Some can handle Ghee, but they can’t handle the butter. So, there’s an incremental way in why we do it.

Evan Brand: And then other foods, I mean, people freak out a lot about fruit in Candida. I haven’t seen a big issue with berries. If we’re doing organic berries [crosstalk]… a serving—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: —or two a day is fine. I’m not worried about that.

Evan Brand: There’s so— those people that are like, “Oh my God! You have to do this Candida diet. If you eat one piece of fruit, you’re gonna feed the Candida, and you’re protocol’s not gonna work.” It’s just not true.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We may even up the Carbohydrates during killing, that act like cheese in the mouse trap. To bait them out.

Evan Brand: Uh— that’s interesting. So, timing— I mean, we always like to talk about carbs with dinner, like maybe a sweet potato—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think carbs with dinner is better. I mean, the way I look at it is I want to stack the fasting period from sleep. I want to stack that period with keeping the carbs superlow the first two meals of the day, ‘cause then I can take eight or ten hours without eating. And then, do another six to eight hours without having really any carbs, maybe outside of veggies, so I can stack that ketogenic timeframe of getting, you know, 16 hours in without really much carbohydrate. I like that stacking period.

Evan Brand: Well, your brain works better, too. So—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hm—

Evan Brand: [crosstalk] Another benefit.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You can up the carbohydrates, you know, post-workout or you can even do it at night before you go to bed, or around dinner time is fine. You can add in a serving or two of fruit. You can add in a serving of, you know, healthy safe starch grain-free versions. That’s all great.

Evan Brand: Awesome. I think that was all the questions. So, if you want to wrap it up, we sure can.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I think it’s great. Someone asked about uhm— lymphatic support. A Red Root or Red Clover is great. Uh— ginger’s also great. Rebounding or Whole Body Vibration’s also phenomenal. Uh— there’s some really good lymphatic support homeopathic by a company called Heal. Heal is some really good lymphatic detox support. Those are great. I like that all significantly. Well, guys, give us a like. Give us a thumbs up. Uh— hit the bell as well. That will actually tell you when we’re going live. We’ll try to go live on Fridays and Monday mornings here. I may go live once during the week, ‘cause I’m just— I’m getting so stoked with all these people listening and watching and great questions. So, hit that bell. Give me a thumbs up. Give me a share right now. We want to help people. Anyone in your life that’s having health issues, have them tune on-board. We’l— We’ll get their questions answered. And Evan, what a great show today, man. You look phenomenal today, brother.

Evan Brand: A lot of fun, you too. If you guys need to reach out, schedule a call. Look up Justin’s site. It’s justinhealth.com. You can schedule a consult there. Also, uh— you’ll check at other things, too that aren’t here on the videos. So, there’s other articles and things. There’s full transcriptions. You don’t mention that but I think it’s worth if people—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Full transcriptions.

Evan Brand: If people need to go back and read some of these, that’s on Justin’s site. So, go view that. And then, if you want to reach out, schedule a consult with me. You could do the same thing at my site, evanbrand.com. So we look forward to helping you out.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Evan, hey man. You look phenomenal today. You take care.

Evan Brand: You too. See you.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Take care. Bye.

Evan Brand: Buh-bye.


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