Bryan Timmins – Adrenal Testing and Biohealth Labs – Podcast #140

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Dr. Justin Marchegiani welcomes Bryan Timmins, one of the founders of BioHealth Laboratory, in today's podcast. Listen as Bryan Timmins shares information about the Lab's new glucose testing and other available tests and methods.

Gain knowledge about the Cortisol Awakening Response's connection to stress and learn about the different practices to help manage the nervous system, which is the fundamental warehouse for every other health process.


In this episode, we will cover:Bryan Timmins

1:31   Glucose versus Lactulose Test

10:00   How BioHealth Came To Be

15:27   Cortisol Awakening Response

20:49   How Waking Affects One’s HPA Axis

33:30   Sleep as the Next Microbomb







Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey there. It’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani. We got a great podcast here today. We have Bryan Timmins here, who is the founder of BioHealth Labs with his father Dr. William Timmins– Bill Timmins the late great Bill Timmins, uhh – Timmins here. And Bill wrote the book, “The Chronic Health–“ uhh– “The Chronic Stress Crisis” many years back. He was a mentor of my good friend, Dr. Dan, and I've learned so much from Bill over the years, even though he’s been – I think he’s passed over ten years. Is that correct, Bryan?

Bryan Timmins:  That’s right, ten years ago.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: He’s helped so many physicians kind’a mold their way of treatment and care for patients and really uhh – you know, change and molded the whole way functional medicine is today. And we have this lab that’s left over that’s a great treatment modality tool to assess stress and gut function. And I’m really excited to talk about that with you Bryan.

Bryan Timmins: Well, thanks for having me Justin. Uhh  – you’re uhh – you’re a very, you know, valued client and friend of ours. And uhh– just– you know, talking to you recently about how I first learned about SIBO from you.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, that’s great.

Bryan Timmins: First look into SIBO testing – SIBO Breath Testing, I was online. It was your video that I watched about five times, taking notes to wrap my head around it. So it’s a pleasure to be with you.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, it’s great to be here. And I do appreciate your guys’ new test that’s out the Three-Hour Test with the Lactulose. And also, what we’re talking about some of the newer technology that you guys have with the glucose testing, which is great. Because that gives us a window more into the upper intestinal tract where the Lactulose gives us the window into the middle to lower part. Is that correct?

Bryan Timmins: Yeah, that’s right. With – with the glucose, because it absorbs faster you are getting upper, and you’re also – and which is believed to be a bit more specific to the bacteria that are putting these gases out. Whereas, with the Lactulose, we’re getting the distal of the colon where the bacteria are more common.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Common.

Bryan Timmins: So, you know, best case scenario, you actually did both. And when we released the glucose here in the next few weeks, we are going to offer a combo in which uhh – you can get both. Credit requires some commitment, you know, you need to take pla– Plan it. You need to plan it. Plan a few days whether you’re gonna be on a strict diet, uhhmm– you know. But what better way to look for SIBO than to do both tests. And we’re gonna make sure there’s a nice discount associated with uhh – you know, patients that are getting both tests.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s great. And regarding the SIBO test, you typically have patients going on a lower FODMAP diet at the time, are there certain foods you’re telling them to avoid or to – to eat?

Bryan Timmins: Uhh – yes, specifically, you know the 24-hour preparation diet limits the preparation significantly [crosstalk] to some proteins, white rice; I mean it’s very, very limited…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Bryan Timmins: …which for some people, you know, will not be a big deal, but I think for the average person, it’s going to be a bit of a planning stage. And, you know, my advice, I’m sure it’s yours as well, is for patients who doesn’t necessarily have a nicely-controlled diet, not to try and do this overnight and treat it like a stressful event but to wrap out to it. You know.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Absolutely. [Crosstalk] Absolutely.

Bryan Timmins: You know. And start – start removing some things in the diet, maybe three or four days prior. But when you get to that 24-hour preparation period, it’s just go to be based on the instructions.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And typically, when I look at the SIBO testing as well, I’m always looking at parasites and gut infections as well. Because some people, you know, like you mentioned earlier, with the H. pylori, will always run the 401H, or an equivalent test, to make sure there are no other lingering infections, like an H. pylori, or a parasite infection like Blasto, or Crypto, or Giardia. Because some of those infections, you know, you may have collateral damage in and around the parasites, to give all these bacteria sputa of hydrogen and methane, and you may have a Phos. Positive, or, you know, Positive for SIBO, but maybe from a deeper infection upstream, what’s your take on– on the 401H kind of combining some of the deeper parasites stuff with the SIBO.

Bryan Timmins: Combining is, as always, great. I mean, as– as– as someone who’s dealt with all sort of colitis from almost 20 years, uhh– I’m– I– I will prioritize my resources to diagnose what’s going on between the mouth and the bottom neck.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Totally.

Bryan Timmins: [laughing] It’s– I mean it’s– what could be more– what could be more important uhh– from the health perspective then– then just that uhhmm– unless you have other known issues of Cortisol. We know that most health problems originated in the gut, so to have the gut as clean as possible, I think it’s a huge priority. I recommend that as resources are available, uhh – you know, I think doing the– the Pathogen Screening, the GI Screening, you know. With– with– with BioHealth Lab, and also with other labs, like I mean, I – I just think it’s that important. And I think, too, uhhmm – being in this business, I do understand that there’s no one answer when it comes to gut testing. I mean, some labs will market themselves as having the answer, but I’ve found with my own challenges that I was best served by doing as many tests as I could afford, uhhmm – and to get it some things – Uhh – and some of the gastroenterologists I was working with have the same attitude. Well we don’t have one lab we use. We’re going to try a few different tests because, inevitably, lab will miss things. Or in the case of, for example, some of the PCR testing, the sensitivity’s so extreme that we’re picking up things that aren’t even a problem. So– so– so it’s like putting the other a pestle, and I think it correlates to the severity of your health concerns.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I know you guys have used the Stool Antigen Testing for many years, and I’ve always said you guys have probably the best H. pylori Stool Antigen out there. I mean, I’d test it out against may tests side by side, where it picks it up while others don’t. So that’s always great to have that. What’s your take on the PCR or the DNA-based Polymerase Chain Reaction Test. I’ll run some of them side by side with the 401H in your lab there, but which will you take on?

Bryan Timmins: Well, I believe it has enormous promise [crosstalk], and, you know, we– we– we want technology in medicine health care to be joined at the hip. What I’m always shy about though is the shining new toy. And I can see a lot of clinicians rushing headlong to the things that are new and unique without really understanding them or appreciating what the real Science  is behind it. Because, to appreciate Lab Science , you need to sort of commit yourself to a learning process that most people aren’t willing to do. Uhh– I– I believe there is value to the PCR Testing. Now I can’t speak to one lab being better than the another. Uhhmm– we certainly looked into things ourselves. We…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Are you exploring? Are you exploring about doing PCR?

Bryan Timmins: Uhhmm– well we do have a couple labs close to ours that are not competitors that do a lot of R&D. And we– what we’re doing is we’re patiently waiting for a couple thumbs up from some scientists that we worked with, who have been looking at these tests. Uhh – don’t like the current technology setup, for one reason or another. And we’re waiting for things to a little more refined and do their own validations in house where they can truly…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Bryan Timmins: …correlates, not just to specutly healthy patients. But these subclinical cases that a lot of us are looking at. I mean, it’s one thing to have Clostridium Difficile and be in a region care. [crosstalk] And it’s another thing…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.

Bryan Timmins: …to have Chronic Stress Problems and what’s driving them. So if you want to look at the gut, uhh – you know, [stutter] you know what, a lot of it has to do with the clinician’s ability to understand that the Lab’s technology and Science and marry it to their own understanding of how the results are gonna affect their decisions.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Got it.

Bryan Timmins: That’s why– that’s why we’re such strong supporters of our methods, which were upgraded. We’re not in the dark ages by any means. We have some very sophisticated gear, especially where our cultures are concerned, and our ability to – to do light targeting on – on organisms, get very careful speciation. We also, I can tell you, we picked up more Candida than the other lab, based on feedback I’ve been getting in that. A lot of it has to deal with the fact that we still believe that people have a value in Microbiology department. And …

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely.

Bryan Timmins: We have a – we have a lot of overhead on staff, how they qualify staff, including a public health microbiologist we’d had now for a couple of years, who’s amazing. There is a passionate commitment to finding things in our lab, as opposed to just flipping a switch on an instrument, and assuming that our findings gonna turn out great. Uhhmm–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s– yeah. [crosstalk] Go ahead.

Bryan Timmins: You know, we– we– we – I mean – just a kind of go on like the – the – the thirty-second BioHealth Commercial. They like, one of the things that makes us different is we really do believe in hiring passionate people [stutter] who really care about, you now, on Friday evening, going home and realizing that they made a difference that week. And if they don’t feel that way, we don’t hire them or we don’t keep them.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Makes sense.

Bryan Timmins: And that extends to all departments, including microbiology. It’s not to say the scientific procedure shouldn’t be the heart and soul of the lab, but having both is a pretty powerful synergy.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I was able to get a hold of a forum with a couple of your microbiologists uhh – and parasitologists last year. Had a couple of clinical questions, and I agree they’ve always been the best, so I appreciate that.

Bryan Timmins: Great.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And coming from your perspective, it’s interesting, right? Because, your dad was this, you know, big naturopathic physician who is in the trenches working with patients. And I don’t think you have uhh – a clinician background, so it’s interesting how you guys came together. You created this lab that some of the salivary stress hormone technology, which 20 years ago, was relatively new. It is you in diagnostics, which is interesting. But it’s– it’s– did you guys create BioHealth out of the necessity to have tools, to help quantify and diagnose, and help treat these patients? How did all these come to fruition.

Bryan Timmins: Well, as you mentioned, uhhmm– my dad, Dr. William Timmins, is a naturopathic doctor, and uhh– you know, the book, which is available for free download, by the way, on

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Great.

Bryan Timmins: Uhhmm– it’s– it really tells the whole story, including the first chapter which is his story. Uhhmm – in interest of time, I would like to try and really, you know…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Bryan Timmins: …condense this. But this is the guy who’d pretty much retired by 40…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Bryan Timmins: …because of his success in real-estate. He was a master blackbelt. Uhh – recognized in some countries as what’s called an assassin because his training was done in such a high level.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s crazy.

Bryan Timmins: Uhhmm– so picture this man with extraordinary physical health. [crosstalk] Just uhh– just a beast. Sweetest guy in the world, too, for those who knew him. You know, a very sweet guy but very tough, very fin– very wealth– off– financially. He bought 30 acres in the mountains in Oregon, Set up a studio to teach martial arts to the people in the area, and, you know, he was remarried at the time and had a couple of kids from her. Fast forward, a year later, divorced, 160 pounds, couldn’t live anywhere because he would have symptoms, rashes, headaches. Just a mess, and he ended up going to a Henrotin Hospital in Chicago, where they put him in an environmental-sensitivity unit. And that’s really determined he had uhh – environmental illness.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Molds, right?

Bryan Timmins: Yeah. Multiple…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Bryan Timmins: …Chemical Sensitivities. I mean, everything. He can’t even get close to like uhh – a Ghettoblaster, you know, like the old stereos with the battery-operated things without feeling himself get weak.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow.

Bryan Timmins: So he ended up going out to the desert in Southern California.and living in a special community, and started researching and building himself back up through diet and tight trading food in this whole thing. And then it was uhh – a brilliant man, uhh– Bill Keles, who operated a clinic in uhh – San diego, who put the pieces together and said, “Bill, you know, here’s what you’ve got and this is what we’ve got to do.” And they built him back up, kind of like the six-million-dollar man. And – and rather than go back to real-estate or whatever, my dad’s like, “I’ve got a lot of people to help.” You know, that was his spirit.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.

Bryan Timmins: And uhh– So he– he, you know, became a naturopathic doctor, opened up a clinic and became legendary for helping people that have to drag themselves through the door, and had been there, done that with every clinic, and, you know, travelled the world, gone to Costa Rica to the…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Bryan Timmins: …and, you know, whatever. He would get everybody, uhh– that would– I mean, he had stage four cancer cases. You know, people with , [crosstalk] people with giant tumors, who two years later were personal trainers and dynamic, living a joyful, successful life. So, how’d this all come forward uhhmm– not as condensed as I’d hoped. I was doing software development in Northern California in 1999, during the dotcom boom, and while I was truly enjoying myself, you know, even to this day I still, you now, I love coding and I think it’s a beautiful thing. Uhh– it was– it was unsatisfying for the perspective of sitting in a chair all day and having intense work schedules and deadlines that were just, you know, excruciating. The timing was right. My dad said, “How would you and my wife Alicia actually, how would you guys like to move– move back down to San Diego and work without sadness?” And so my dad and his wife, John, we– the four of us started doing this thing and it would – we started by brokering labs. So we went to Metametics, which at the time, diagnostics, other labs and Institute of Parasite Diseases, and we put all these kits together and made training programs for doctors. And that time, it was called Functional Medicine Center. Well, this became successful. 1999, we decided to have our own lab and our own dietary supplement company, and so BioHealth Lab and Biomatrix were born.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s great, and that’s amazing that I never had a chance to meet your dad but, he’s had such an impact on me, and I tell thousands of patients, I know many of my colleagues he’s had an impact on. So it’s crazy that you may not even meet someone but still have– be touched by their– by what they’ve done here. So that’s great. It’s a great legacy to pass. I appreciate that, Bryan.

Bryan Timmins: Yeah, indeed. Thank you.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well that’s kind of twitch key ears here, you guys come up with some newer technology and that’s really cool. It relates to the the lot of the stress, physiology that most people experience that fight or flight people are in daily with this adrenal stress from foods, from infections, from lifestyle, and emotional stressors. And that’s the new Adrenal Testing. And one thing that you guys have looked at is the Cortisol Awakening Response, which is basically looking at Cortisol, your stress response when you wake up, and then looking at it, remember correctly, one hour later, really looking for that 50 percent job in Cortisol. And that gives us our big window into our HPA Axis, which is the brain, the hypothalamus and the pituitary talking to the adrenals. Can you talk a little bit more about the uh, Cortisol Awakening Response?

Bryan Timmins: Yeah. So, uhh – just a quick backstory is warrant to, you know, since 1999, we’ve been doing the Cortisol measurements, you know, four Cortisols, that sort of timeframes during the day, doing DHEA-Sulphate as the most basic stress assessment to assess how the body’s respond to stress to give us some clues what the drivers of the stress might be. And it’s a monitoring tool for lifestyle changes, therapies and so on. Uhh – about a year and a half ago, we were challenge by one of our colleagues. We’ve been doing a lot of research. It’s that Dr. Tom Glolliams.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Bryan Timmins: Uhhmm – you know, Tom called me and said, “I want to give you a heads-up. I’m working on this book, and bottom line, it doesn’t seem like any of your labs know what you’re doing because the Science doesn’t support the collection times, the units of measurement, the precautions, uhhmm – the ideal adrenal fatigue.” So he came at me with all this information that I kind of loosely aware of. But you know, you get busy. You get complaisant. You know the test are helping people. If it’s not broken don’t fix it. But you challenge us to upgrade across the board. It really challenged all the labs, and we took the challenge. And we – we felt it was just that important and exciting, frankly, to make these changes. And, you know, besides the taking a second look at the nomenclature, the way we talk about the test, the idea, “Are there really three stages? Is …”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Bryan Timmins: … there really a reserve of pregnenolone that can be stolen in favor of Cortisol. You know, there are always things that we all believed in…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Bryan Timmins: …that simply became questionable. But, like rubber meets the road where the clinician and the patient is concerned, evaluating the HPA Axis, we realize that– bottom line, Justin, Science , Science , Science . ‘Cause as a lab, we have to have a kit, instructions, a return shipping, temperature control; we need to have reports with details that are all rooted in Science where you can go in PodMed and see support for that. So – that’s why we went away from our menu of Adrenal Stress Testing was based on ideas we’d had for many years, which were good. Don’t get me wrong. And I know you’ve had experience with those tests, you know their value. But we saw this as an opportunity to leap forward and get more precise and really refined in what we’re doing, so. Like for an example, uhh– for patients watching this, who’re doing this tests, it’s very important that the first sample be done 30 minutes after waking. Why? Science. We know that that’s the highest– that’s the peak of Cortisol production over a 24-hour period.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: The first 30 minutes?

Bryan Timmins: Actually, at the thirty-minute mark. So, the patient wakes. There’s a timer. At thirty minutes, we’re going to get a consistent number that’s representative of that – the peak of Cortisol. So that DHEA-Sulphate and that the units we used for that– you know, a lot of these new ones is. And also the waiting instructions are written, uhh– the advice on how to accumulate the saliva in your mouth that won’t interfere with the test– We took a look at a lot of details, make sure they’re reflective on our instructions, which ar very attractive, very friendly. We have very sophisticated packing materials, because you don’t want to leave certain analytes at room temperature, ambient temperature, vulnerable to heat and temperature swings. So, we done all this to improve the quality and the scientific integrity of what we do. But Cortisol Awakening Response is really the big deal here. And– and the reason is uhh– the way I like to think of Cortisol – well, first let’s define what it is. Uhhmm– right before we wake up, we have what’s called the uhhmm– I may mispronounce it, I think it’s a Suprachiasmatic nucleus.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Nucleus, [crosstalk] yep. Exactly.

Bryan Timmins: Yeah. It’s a part of the brain that’s like uhhmm– boring up the car. It’s like the first crank of the key to start the engine, that’s– that’s it. it’s getting ready because the brain is getting ready for the day. And if you take life and you break it down, what is it? It’s one day at a time.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep. Absolutely.

Bryan Timmins: [stuttering] It’s almost the most stressful event. I hope it’s not, but the first stressful event you have in your day, is waking.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Absolutely.

Bryan Timmins: Waking is a stressor. Uhh – you know, bottom line. So, measuring the dynamic of how waking affects the HPA Axis– or I should say, how the HPA Axis responds to waking. And the challenge of the day ahead is an amazing tool to look at how resilient and strong the Hypothalamus-Pituitary-Adrenal Axis is. There’s been always concentration. I understand why people want to keep it simple, and get– get through the day. But it’s not about adrenal, adrenal, adrenal. The adrenal’s an important part. You know, they produce hormones in response to signals from the brain but with the Cortisol Awakening Response, you have a natural rise and fall of Cortisol. And the way to measure this empirically is to have the patient collect a small– tiny amount of saliva within five minutes awaking, and then set the alarm, unless you’re a great clock watcher to watch the clock. Thirty minutes later, they get a second sample. And then another 30 minutes later, 60 minutes after waking, you do the third sample.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So we can [crosstalk] basically zero…

Bryan Timmins: Then what will…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …30, and then 60. So three samples in that first hour. Is that correct?

Bryan Timmins: That’s correct.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Good.

Bryan Timmins: And so, what we do is we report that curve, reflected against what we know from the literature, would be the healthy– the healthy curve to have. So instead of a single Cortisol, which just tell us about production, you know, the amount. This is like a movie compared to a photograph. We’re getting a dynamic picture here. We’re doing a mini stress test, really. Uhh–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And– and what should we be seeing there, so for a baseline here, is that a 50 percent bump at zero to 30? Is that what we’re looking?

Bryan Timmins: The range is– is around 50 to 70 percent, I may be off this coach. Uhhmm – and then again, you know the literature is guiding this. The studies are gonna take a while to have the healthy inclusive, you know, populations and kind of do it ourselves. Uhhmm – but the 60-minute should come down to less than 30– about 35 percent of the morning. So, you want to see it go up to uhh– you know, roughly 50 percent, and you want to see it come down, not to the morning level, necessarily, which is quite rare to see in the literature, but around 20 to 30 percent above that morning level.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So let me give the listeners an example here. So let’s say, we’re pumping out about ten units of Cortisol at zero minutes, at waking. So we should be at about 15 in about 30 minutes, and may be back down to 12 at 60 minutes. Is that a good example?

Bryan Timmins: It is. What that would demonstrate is that under that stressful event of waking, we have a nice rise. Okay, I’m ready to start the day. I’m all – Everything’s turning on. You know that’s that peak.  Everything’s turning on and getting ready. Now, if that 60 only drops by five percent, well, that’s an example of [stuttering] a hyperactive HPA Response. Like you’re not able to chill out. You’re having a trouble getting down and calming down from a very– you know, from a basic chemical level. And so, that’s exciting to understand why. Another example will be, you go from that zero measurement, and it barely goes up. You know, say, it only goes up 20, 30 percent. Well, that’s a sign of somebody who’s probably in burnout. And as, you know, chronic health issues, and– and perhaps a great deal of mental-emotional stress. And that’s a perfect opportunity for me to mention something else that makes our test very unique. We’re not just showing you the zero measure, the 30-minute measure and the 60, against guidelines that can be used to help the interpretation if the patient has uhh– an exaggerated HPA response, adole-depressed HPA response. We also have a survey, and I just happened to have one here because I’m doing the test myself. I like to do our tests on a regular basis…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Nice.

Bryan Timmins: …for variety of reasons. But we have this uhh– we have this survey. What it is– it’s the perceived stressor rate. There’s a psychologist by name of [phonetic] Collin, who put up one of the most well-established subjective questionnaires and all of psychology and psychiatry. It’s uhh – a ten- question survey that asks you during the last month how often you felt that things were going your way, how often you felt you’re on top of things, how often you felt nervous, uhh – difficulties piling up so high you can overcome, and then it’s rated from zero (0) to four (4). Now the total score is fixed into a three-third scale. Uhhmm – on the low end, you’re [stuttering] you’re pretty on top of their stress, pretty mellow, you recognize that life can be hard but you’ll not gonna get all twisted about it, you got people sort of in the middle, kind of go either way, and then you have what we’re seeing [stuttering] as a [laughing]. The truth is surprising, because the most of questionnaires are getting people feel very stressed out and out of control. You know, coming to us for help through these things. And uhhmm– you know the high perceived stress core correlates very well with Cortisol Awakening Response results. So when we see somebody, for example, with the exaggerated Cortisol Awakening Response, it’s like, you know, a really high escalation, like, “Oh, I’ve got to deal with the day. It’s so stressful. I’ve got my boss, I’ve got my divorce, I’ve got my taxes, I’ve got this, I got that.” I’m gonna start right there and just get to something that I have personally think the sole key to all of this. And uhhmm – I know you heard me talk about this before, and I’ve heard myself talk about this before, ‘cause I’ve talked about this everyday with doctors. I feel like doctors and patients alike, are looking for [stuttering] is it a parasite that’s making this happen, or uhh – is it heavy metal toxicity that’s causing this problem? Uhh– is it my diet? More than anything, it’s our mental-emotional condition that’s driving all of our health issues. You know we talked in a previous conversation about how a dear friend of ours discovered that he had cancer [crosstalk] when he had some surgery going on. And if he’d never been told, he’d still be here today.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep.

Bryan Timmins: Instead he went – he lasted three months. It’s his mind-body connection. So what’s amazing about the test we’re doing with the Cortisol Awakening Response, and the perceived stress core, is– is  a patients can look at this on paper and say, “That’s me. I’m not handling my stress well. Uhh – I’ve got these problems whether they’re with work, family. Well, those tend to be the top two, right? Or – another– for me, one of my favorite examples is the Road Rage Mentality.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Bryan Timmins: Now I live in a rural area. You know, very, very peaceful where– when people complain about the traffic, I just shake my head, I’m like, “By the way, 30 seconds for the light of change.” Okay.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Bryan Timmins: But uhhmm– even in a place like this, where compared to say, a big Metropolitan area, you think there’d be no complaints, you will have Road Rage over somebody– I think my example’s being cut off.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, yeah.

Bryan Timmins: You know, if ii get cut off, I just back off a little bit, create some space, keep listening to my music, talk a little bit with my kids, if they’re in the backseat. I mean, really. Why even let your heartbeat shift? That– it’s an attitude. You know, it’s an attitude. And I really believe that that’s just one of the many examples that I can provide of how our mind, our mental state are building to deal with stress, to deal with it coming, to deal with it happening, to deal with it behind us, I feel like that is the undercurrent that really feeds all– you know, every mechanism of health and homeostasis.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I think a lot of the tests that’s being done here are really getting a window into our parasympathetic and our sympathetic nervous system, so we have about 20 milliseconds for our frontal cortex to override that road rage. You know, uhhmm– a reaction to go chase that person down, right? And the more we have that parasympathetic system that’s strong, we can override that sympathetic response. So, the sympathetic response in my– in the example you gave where it’s too high for instance, where you get that Cortisol Awakening Response that pops up and stays up, that’s like you’re driving a standard but it can only go one way. It only can go first to second, second to third, third to fourth, fourth to fifth, but you can’t downshift. So now you’re stuck in that high gear, and you can’t whine down. You can’t relax. You can’t turn off. And then the opposite, where you’re stuck in first gear and you can’t go from second to third, third to fourth. You can’t generate the energy. So with the testing, it’s kind of like driving that car, right? You either can get up to max speed and deal with stress but you can’t whine down, or you can’t get up and deal with stress, anyway. So, I think some [crosstalk] of the testing is great, ‘cause it gives you a window into that. And then from there, you can work with your clinician and say, “Hey, what are the things that we can do to help improve that parasympathetic response, or dampen that sympathetic response?” Now, I want to hear…

Bryan Timmins: Why not?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …some of the things that you guys recommend at the lab, and what you’re seeing clinicians do and that’s really helping with that. Let’s say, let’s give two examples. The Cortisol Awakening Response that goes high and stays high, and the one that just can’t get it up.

Bryan Timmins: Right, right. So, in the first case, you have uhhmm – you know, what’s called an elevated car. Uhh – aggravated, hyperactive HPA Axis. Again, starting with the mental-emotional is so critical. I know it’s one of the hardest areas, not just for– for– well. I mean, it really is very hard area for people, in general, because it really means facing your own stuff in a pretty honest way, which, you know, a lot of us don’t want to do. And I know for clinicians, it’s hard because they’re not necessarily trained in psychology…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.

Bryan Timmins: …or with spiritual counseling or anything about nature but I would say that is extremely critical. Is– I do know providers that have extensive questionnaires and– and inquiry process with their patients to understand what’s going on in their lives. You know, do they– are they caregivers? Do they have really difficult jobs? Do they have uhhmm– have they lost someone recently very close to them? How are they dealing with that? That’s fundamental. Uhhmm – beside the mental-emotional side of that, and much of course, you know, you want to get tangible. As much as we may prescribe, you know, Prilosec for a certain condition, we need to prescribe relaxation for patients that are stressed out. Uhhmm– [stuttering] it’s so basic and fundamental that it’s often overlooked. You know, even uhh– I think, to some extent, disregard it, like not really taking it seriously. All about, you know, “Mrs. Johnson, you should meditate 30 minutes a day.” Well you should. That’s mind blowing. You know, if anyone’s ever committed to a series of meditation, you never want to go back to not meditating.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Totally.

Bryan Timmins: There’s so many practices that can help, as you said, to manage the nervous system, which is the fundamental warehouse for every other health process we have. Besides that, certainly, changes in diet. That’s a very personal thing to different people and clinicians like I can’t really cite examples. There’s so much disagreement over what’s what. Uhhmm – the sleep factor is an amazingly important thing. In fact, it seems like a– we know a couple of researchers in this trade, and they feel like sleep is the next microbomb. It’s something we do, you know, for third of our lives, pretty much, and– but people don’t think about it. Uhh – a great example in the room right here right now is beautifully lit by natural light and so forth. But at night, it’s black.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Bryan Timmins: You know. It is as black as black gets. And I have uhh – a blue, a very lux blue lamp that I turn on If I need to get up, because I don’t want to be shocked. You know, that kind of thing’s really critical too. Getting into the – getting into sleep, because if you can optimize sleep, you optimize everything.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Totally.

Bryan Timmins: Change your sleep; change your life. I mean really, it’s so true. And there’s so much work that can be done on sleep. And of course, you know, some of our panels offer melatonin, which is a great indicator of how well you’re shutting down at night. Uhhmm – and night stimulation, like, I struggle with my daughters to get them to get off the screens in a certain hour. They don’t want to hear it. They don’t want to hear Dad talk about HPA Axis, they just want to finish their game, or, you know, FaceTime with their friend. But I try to explain to them that you’re not really sleeping…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Bryan Timmins: …when you over stimulate yourself like that.  You’re not getting the resting repair.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Or at least get some of those blue-blocking sunglasses on them that will help block some of that light.

Bryan Timmins: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. That’s what I mean. That’s– that– that’s a great invention. And really, that’s been another cornerstone of this device. And then of course, what’s the other, you know, pillar of lifestyle exercise. And I think again, that’s another great personal thing. Uhh – I see things lately online just crack me up, but people are going over the health effects of rebounders. Some people claiming it’s bad for you, or doesn’t do anything, or doesn’t raise the heart rate. Others claiming it cured their cancer. I mean, we just have to get real with ourselves and figure out what works for us. Balance it, not spend ten hours a week researching, listening to talking heads and bloggers, no offense. But [laughing]…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Apply. Application. Do it.

Bryan Timmins: Yeah. Exactly.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Just do it.

Bryan Timmins: Just do it, and figure out what works for you. Now, getting away from lifestyle mental-emotional, obviously, they can be drivers of chronic stress that are contributing to these dysfunctional patterns. Whether it is, the one– you know, the first example you want me to address, which is that, as the elevated or it is the blunted, the blunted of course is more of a sign that you’re in a what we use to call Stage Three Adrenal Exhaustion.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Bryan Timmins: You’re just slumped. But I will – I can tell you that you can still have healthy Cortisol levels, a healthy production of Cortisol and still have a blunted CAR – blunted Cortisol Awakening Response. It’s really important to understand that the Cortisol Awakening Response is telling us how your HPA Axis, how resilient it is, how well it manages challenges. It doesn’t necessarily concern yourself with the level of Cortisol output. Uhhmm – but let me go back to my point. Inflammation – huge, huge, huge. In fact, most of research has been done on the drivers of HPA Axis Dysfunction, or based in inflammatory cascade. So of course, we know that GI infections are huge issue there. We also know that, leaky gut is a…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Huge.

Bryan Timmins: …a contributor to HPA Dysfunction. And why do we have leaky gut, because the intestinal barrier’s been eroded by uhh – the classic examples I think most people can resonate with would be like gluten-intolerance, lactose-intolerance. These, these, what should be healthy crips like this.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Microbila, yeah.

Bryan Timmins: All this work, think it all crumpled up and they’re trapping parasites…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, _______ absolutely.

Bryan Timmins: Yeah so, the– the basics apply. They really do, you know, uhhmm– I think that no matter what data we have, or even if we don’t have any data, right? To take my lab out off and be just a regular guy, and if you never did another lab test, you know that you do the right thing to support your physiology, and to return the homeostasis. Now where lab testing comes in is when you want to measure your progress empirically, which is a beautiful thing. And that’s my favorite thing about lab testing actually is I’m not wondering if I’m getting better. Maybe it’s just a subjective reference point that I have. And this has improved over here, so I feel better. So my perception is different of this. The lab tells you how it is, right?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. And it’s really out there. You can put your finger on, you can touch it, and then you can try some things. And then come back three to six months later and see how you’re doing and see a change. Just that’s – it makes it real.

Bryan Timmins: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And that’s what you’re doing. You know, worth it.

Bryan Timmins: Yeah. It’s like a [stuttering] it’s like a, you know, it’s a metric. It’s a true, you know, personal health metric that you can control, and for some reason it just got me thinking about how some patients will end up doing dozens and dozens of tasks before they have, before they end their team of helpers, you know the clinicians have that ‘ahuh moment’. And that’s what – my heart really goes out to that people because it’s so stressful to get better, which is in itself is not helping you to get better. Uhhmm – and that I also see people benefit dramatically just by getting on a hormone replacement program.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Bryan Timmins: It just seems to turn things on, gives them the energy and the mental acuity to start seeing things a little more clearly like wow. I bet I’ve had parasites all this years from that travelling I did in India, when we’re drinking water out of the tap. Lo and behold we go in, and you know, we find Cryptosporidium parvum on every single sample. Uhhmm – you know, obviously the list goes on. And again, you know, those of you viewing this, definitely go to to the patient section and you can download the book, Dr. Timmins book.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep.

Bryan Timmins: And I think a lot of…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Stress Crisis?

Bryan Timmins: Right. Chronic Stress Crisis. I think a lot of what we’re talking about is addressed there in a really, you know, direct and solid way. Because also of the drivers, you know.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Up with the links and everything in the description, yes, people can easily access it. And I think you did a good job. Let me just summarize some of that. So we have physical, chemical and emotional stress, the emotional stress of the relationships, in meditation and in gratitude, in appreciation – all those are very important. We have the physical stressors, which can be too much or too little exercise, chronic pain and such. And then we have the chemical stressors, which is, these can be under the surface. This is where it’s great to have the labs to pick up maybe H. pylori or Cryptosporidium parvum, like you mentioned, or Adrenal Dysfunction or Heavy metals or low thyroid, or even uhhmm– a little sensitivity, right, and nutrient deficiencies, low statin enzymes. So all of those things could be under the surface, and could be a driving stressor. And just summarize on the higher side of the CAR, right, if we have the Adrenal’s response and it pops up high and stays high, maybe we could use maybe Adaptogenic herbs…

Bryan Timmins: Absolutely.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: … Ashwagandha, etc., Rhodiola, maybe a certain ginseng. We can use certain nutrients, like GABA, ALPHININE, or Magnesium, or Phosphatidylserine. On the low side, we may use morLicorice. We may dial in Pregnenolone and DHEA dose according to your labs. We may use certain B-Vitamins, B5, Pantothenic acid, uhhmm– thiamine, B6, B5B – all those really good nutrients. Is there anything you wanted to add to make physical supplement to take on that we can add in there, Bryan?

Bryan Timmins: Uhh– well, certainly a well-rounded mineral supplement…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep.

Bryan Timmins: Is– is [crosstalk] key, uhhmm – some targeted amino acids, which I know affects everyone differently. I’m a huge fan of L-Theanine. Uhh– I take large doses of that, and it makes a huge difference. I take it with Thyroxine, uhhm–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love that.

Bryan Timmins: It’s a really neat synergy. But, no, you actually nailed it, uhhmm– with what you listed because uhhmm – even in Dr. Pulliam’s Book, which consolidates most of the relevant research, [crosstalk] what you listed is represented there. I got that book right over here. Think I can see if I can almost reach it, but, yeah, it’s a great book. And I agree. He does put a lot of info on the Pregnenolone steal. What may not be like that stolen building block per se. it really just be that the physiology shifting in a more catabolic you get from stress, the more hormones do tend to go down the stress side. It may not be this building block phenomenon, known as the Pregnenolone steal

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We’ll put some info below.

Bryan Timmins: Right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’ve done podcasts and videos on this topic, so  we’ll put those below too.

Bryan Timmins: Okay, cool. And just to underscore one thing you mentioned uhh– the adaptogens.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Bryan Timmins: They’re phenomenal. and [stuttering] I wonder why more and more people aren’t making that part of their daily regimen and prioritizing it, because it really is. You mentioned Rhodiola, Ashwagandha, you know, it’s key. It is the key. I know this when I forgot to take mine. I mean…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.

Bryan Timmins: …like really, really am a believer of those products.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think that’s great. Now looking at BioHealth, I know you mentioned a couple other tracts that you guys were on here. You talking about doing some – adding some more thyroid lab testing. Can you talk about some of the thyroid lab test you guys are adding to your profile?

Bryan Timmins: Uhh– I can and I can’t…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay.

Bryan Timmins: …to tell you the truth, because there’s a lot of research and development happening right now.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Bryan Timmins: And uhh– what I will– I will tease you with this. The BioHealth is aiming to offer the most comprehensive thyroid pal at the best price, and you won’t need a needle in your arm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Does it beat the CRT Lab. I’m using the CRT for my patients that can’t get to a LabCorp quest lab. Similar to that?

Bryan Timmins:  Uhh– [stuttering] It’s the– it’s in the same category.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, coll. [crosstalk] how much longer you think?

Bryan Timmins: Let’s leave it to that [crosstalk].

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: End of the year?

Bryan Timmins: What’s taking time, uhhmm– you know, we’ve done a lot of the important works just working with serum. Uhhmm – now, there’s more on D that’s necessary with these proprietary devices to get to the point where we’re ready to go. But it’s really going to be revolutionary. We’re also gonna be applying this technology to everything from  uhhmm– hormones, to food allergies, heavy metals. It’s really exciting but, you know, given the nature of its status, I really can’t talk more on it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got a [inaudible] thyroid.

Bryan Timmins: Obv– [inaudible]

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’ve got a Thyroid book coming out, so make sure you hit me up so we can put it in there in the uhh– the Appendices for a resource. I love it.

Bryan Timmins: Yeah, beautiful. When we’ve got it, you’re gonna hear all about it. I’m being mysterious right now but [laughing] it’ll be a different game when we get it out there.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s great. Now there are some other Adrenal test that are out too. Now I would use the 201 and the 205, I’d say for like seven or eight years. I’ve been using the Dutch a little bit more recently, and looking to come back using more of the CAR Testing just because of its unique zero-30-minute-60-minute protocol there. And I think the salivary testing is great to do midday. When people are at work because some of the Dutch Testing or the Precision Analytics Lab, where they’re doing the dried urine’s – Hard to do that in the middle of the day when you’re at work, putting some paper that you pee on, letting it dry. What’s your take on the Dried Urine’s Testing Comprehensive Hormone Test that’s sold by Precision Analytics? Any thoughts on that?

Bryan Timmins: Uhh – well we do have thoughts on it. we actually have a paper on our website, uhhmm – where we address – we have a series of papers. If you’re on and you go to the HPA Stress Profile Section, you will find a few papers on that right margin, where we compare saliva to serum to wet urine and to dried urine. And when we engaged the – a couple PhDs to help us with this, they didn’t want to do anything on dried urine because they said there’s just no Science  to support that it’s valid in any way, shape or form. And you know, in all fairness, there is no peer reviewed literature in existence that supports Dried Urine Testing. Uhh – but you know, we tried to be open-minded. Uhh – I mean, sure. It’s a competitive industry but I’m not really that worried about competition. Uhh – my life is not about being worried about competition. I’ve more interesting things to do. But we did take the time to write a paper. And what was interesting about it is if you look at the three papers, the serum comparison and the wet urine I think they’re like two to three pages. The one that compares dried urine is like 12. And that’s because, the people we engaged we’re pretty passionate about the topic. And I think the paper price speaks best for itself. Uhh – it will be interesting to see what happens with uhh – the Dried Urine Testing in the future. The uhhm – yo know, the main – as I said earlier, we’re always interested in continuous improvement. We’re always veery excited to see things getting better. But it has to be based  on Science .

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Now the benefit…

Bryan Timmins:  And it has to…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Go ahead.

Bryan Timmins: …have proof that from – all the way from the kit, the material that’s used, the stability all the way to how it’s reported, and certainly the claims being made about the physiological-clinical relevance. All of that has to be based in Science. And what I would suggest is, you know, take a look at the paper that we produced in that context. And unfortunately, the people who worked on these papers, who are some of the household names, in like hormone research, refused to put their names on it because they felt there was a conflict, because they’re researchers and we’re commercial.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.

Bryan Timmins: So uhhmm –  the paper would surely have more impact if some of these names are on there, because they’re well-known individuals. But it is what it is. People should just look at the references that we’ve cited and really ask themselves uhhmm– is this accurate?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I appreciate you’ve given me that perspective. I’ve done and used both labs, so I appreciate all sides of it. I mean, the benefit with the saliva: it’s easy, it’s accessible, you get access to the free fraction of the hormones, typically represents about two to five percent of the hormone. The difference with the urine: you can get the free, you can get the total, get the 95-98 percent, you can get it in the metabolite form. And again, that’s where some of the discrepancy is, the urinary metabolites, can you backtrack it and get the free testosterone equivalent of that. Is that a big discrepancy with the urine versus the saliva?

Bryan Timmins: Well, you know, I’ve – the information is – is – There’s a lot of information there. But what is the real clinical value. What are you gonna do differently, if you know it? And every time I ask a clinician out there, there’s a bit of a head scratching. And then, I mean, if we’re just creating more of a mystery, I’m not sure we’re helping the patient. But I would go back to basics. Uhhmm – you know, the collection device itself. The normalization of Creatine. We referenced numerous dietists that point out the weakness of the materials that are being used, the collection times, the value clinically, and uhmm– the – there’s very specific studies that target, you know, this idea of urine on filter paper and how you would end up normalizing the Creatine. Uhh– again, you definitely want to check out that paper because it breaks down a lot of detail. There’s uhh – there’s a lot of conflicting issues there.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think you’ve given us some really good info so far. I’m gonna reference those studies in the description below, so people want to get into the need to read if they can.

Bryan Timmins: Absolutely.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So is there anything else you want to address here today before I let you go?

Bryan Timmins: Well, uhhmm– you know…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Anything important you want to address?

Bryan Timmins: I can obviously just run along about our lab tests but I think we’ve done enough of that. Uhhmm– you know that the only thing that comes to mind is how important it is. I realized that most of people watching your podcast are people that are, you know, not health professionals, I know you’ve had a lot of health professionals who follow what you do, but you know the majority are what we would call patients in our universe.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. Yeah.

Bryan Timmins: People that are trying to feel better, trying to seek help, is much as for 20 years I’ve been, you know, in this business of Lab Testing, dietary supplements, a lot of science quality assurance, quality control, everything that comes with it. And I’ve seen everything from the most highly sophisticated TedTalks on mitochondria regeneration to how meditation helps migraine, headaches, and everything in between. You used the word in this call that I think is worth a fortune. That’s gratitude.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hmmn. Yeah.

Bryan Timmins: You know, uhhmm– there– I admit people around the world who suffer so dearly in their life situations because of where they are, the situation they’re in. But the smile on the face, putting the stranger first, conveying love in all their energy. It’s so phenomenally powerful to our health, uhh – physically, mentally, spiritually. It’s untouched, you know. We can talk about driving here all day long, we can talk about, you know, Cryptosporidium. But I’ll tell you what, if you don’t start your day and finish your day wiith gratitude, uhhmm– I know I’m not the first to say this, my gosh. I mean, Ghandi, Tony Robbins, one thing many people have had in common is getting back to this point. It is amazing stuff. Especially if you do some of the Tony Robbins tricks, like the purposeful walking…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Huge.

Bryan Timmins: …and talking out you’re verbalizing your gratitude.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Affirmations. Yeah. Visuall–

Bryan Timmins: Completely transform uhh– your consciousness, and elevated, and [sigh] It’s good stuff.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think so.

Bryan Timmins: if you ask me what’s important, I cannot think of any more important at the moment.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And it’s amazing, ‘cause you know, you guys  being a lab and a hormone company, right? You know, looking at all these hormones, but it’s amazing how your hormones and your neurotransmitters get affected by something simple as an attitude and gratitude. So that’s– I think it’s …

Bryan Timmins: Yeah. Let’s not forget, what programs the hypothalamus – thoughts.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep.

Bryan Timmins: Attitudes.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Which affects dopamine and GABA and serotonin – all those things. Just a random act of kindness, just by doing something random for someone, you actually boost their serotonin, you boost your serotonin. Anyone that actually watched the act happen, their serotonin gets boosted too. So yeah. You can do all these really cool things and fix your hormones uhh– and neurotransmitters naturally. Let’s give it a good boost for sure. That’s great.

Bryan Timmins: It’s powerful.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So last question for you here, Bryan. If you’re stuck on a desert island and you only can bring one supplement, one herb, one nutrient with you, what would it be?

Bryan Timmins: [thinking]  I normally go with first though, best thought but, I really have to go down the rat in the hole on that one. Got stuck on a desert island, I would have – we actually have a product called Adaptaline.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh. 

Bryan Timmins: And it’s a Adaptogen formula. We talked about Adaptogen this earlier. I think there’s something magical. I’m a huge fan of Ashwaghanda. In fact…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love that.

Bryan Timmins: …if I could only have one uhhmm – botanical, that’s what it would be.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love Ashwaghanda. Indian Ginseng, Indian Sanskrit for “to impart the strength of the horse”. I mean, how– how fitting is that?

Bryan Timmins: Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Awesome, Bryan. Well, website is, is that correct?

Bryan Timmins: Uhh – no ‘s’ just

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:, is that what’s inside BioMatrics one?

Bryan Timmins: BioMatrics one. Either the number or, any.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Perfect. Then we’ll put all the notes in the descriptions on the references in the transcription site. Anything else here, Bryan, before I let you go?

Bryan Timmins: Uhh– no. I just want to thank you. Uhmm– yeah. Love you as a friend, and you’re a great client, as well. And just keep up the good work, and thanks for having me.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Thank you so much Bryan for this great information. Have a great day.

Bryan Timmins: You too.



Free eBook: The Chronic Stress Crisis

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