Beyond Wellness Radio Q&A Forum Dominator 2 Podcast #11

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In this podcast, Dr. Justin Marchegiani and Baris Harvey did another Forum Dominator where questions from the Paleo Hacks community were taken and addressed by providing interesting insights, useful tips and clear, detailed answers concerning various health issues. 

Listen as Dr. Justin and Baris tackled topics like tannin sensitivity, increased sex drive through Paleo diet and trace minerals in reverse osmosis water.  Dr. Justin also explained in depth the issue of low breast milk supply and how to properly address this problem through hormone testing, diet and supplementation.   


In this episode we cover:

01:41   Tannin Sensitivity

07:20   Paleo Diet/Lifestyle and Sex Drive

13:36   Probiotic Supplements as Rectal Suppository or Enema

21:54   Trace Minerals in Reverse Osmosis Water

26:39   Low Breast Milk Supply

38:24   Yellow Tongue/Fungal Infections









Baris Harvey:  Thank you guys for tuning on to another episode of Beyond Wellness Radio.  Today is another Forum Dominator where we go to Paleo hacks and we take a bunch of awesome questions and we have Dr. Justin go and tackle them.  So first of all, how is it going today, Dr. Justin?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Great Baris! How are you doing today?

Baris Harvey:  I am doing very well.  Excited to do this.  It was a lot of fun doing it the last time and so I thought why not do it again and give people some really good solutions to some of the problems that they are facing.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yes, and also people can ask their questions individually at

Baris Harvey:  That is true.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  They can put their own personal questions in, too.

Baris Harvey:  Yes, definitely and we will go ahead and answer those for you.  So let us just get straight to it.  So the first question that I have here, let me just pull it up.  I had it actually backwards.  And for anybody out there my mic stand is messed up right now and I am holding my mic so if I get a little messed up my bad.  So first question will start off from the Morning Bug is: Symptoms associated with tannin sensitivity.   He asked, “I have been trying to understand the possible ill-effects of tannins but have some trouble pinning down typical symptoms.  It seems like there is not a ton of information online aside from concentration of info on tannins and headaches/migraines.  If you have a tannin sensitivity what kind of effects do you feel from it and to what extent do you need to limit them from your diet?  I have been trying to pinpoint any possible sources of joint and muscle pain and muscle weakness as well as GI issues.  I recently realized that two items I have yet to eliminate from my diet, chocolate and coffee and both are high in tannins.  Do you want to go ahead and answer that?       

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So regarding that question.  I mean tannins and a lot of these compounds such as coffee and tea they can be high with a lot various bioflavonoids.  And some people that are autoimmune or have an autoimmune type of conditions like Hashimoto’s or Crohn’s or maybe celiac disease, these different compounds can actually push the immune system in one direction.  And for most people it is not going to be a problem, right?  So the tannins can kind of give that bitterness.  It is also known that they can kind of bind up to certain nutrients.  They may have things like oxalates or various phytic acids like in the Paleo community we know them as anti-nutrients.

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:   Now for most people it may not be a big deal because they are getting nutrition in their diets.  Like you know, green tea I find there are enough benefits by taking that in because you are getting a lot of other good stuff in there, too. 

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Especially if it is a high quality green tea.  But for some people it may push them over the edge if they have an autoimmune condition.  I am not a big fan of the TH1 or TH2 type of hypothesis but basically you have two main branches of your immune system.  The TH1 branch that is kind of the branch of your immune system that attacks the invader as soon as it comes into the body.  It is the branch where you have the natural killer cells if you will.  It is like the special forces of the Army or the navy or you know the navy Seals if you will.  They are there, your frontline defense that attack invaders.  And then you have the TH2 it is known as your humoral immune system, the humoral branch.  Basically that branch produces antibodies.  So antibodies are more of a delayed type of reaction.  They tend to come and support the immune system usually a week or two or more of a prolonged immune response, they come to the battle.  So you have like your immediate battle guys or the TH1 and then you have your delayed battle guys those are your TH2.  And there is a lot of research showing that a lot of the antioxidants and a lot of the flavonoids in tea can push that TH2 side of the immune system.  And some people maybe sensitive if you have an autoimmune condition and you are already high in that TH2 branch.  They may not feel too well.  So typically people that drink tea and maybe are not healthy to begin with, maybe have an autoimmune condition because so many people do and do not even know it.  If you do not feel too good it is a good chance that that is what is happening and you are pushing that TH2 branch of the immune system. But again it is really on an individual basis.  Get healthy, you know go autoimmune for a month, autoimmune Paleo.  So cut out all the nuts, the seeds the night shades.  Cut out the chocolate and the tea and the coffee for a month and then slowly add things in one at a time every four days and see how you feel.  I am much more a fan of an individualized approach versus a dogmatic approach.

Baris Harvey:  Yes. Definitely.  And for people wondering what tannins are.  These are plant compounds that can be negative to some people.  Usually like you said it is the bitter part of the fruit sometimes.  Like if you are biting into a grape and it is sweet then you get that bitter taste.  Same thing with like tomatoes that is why sometimes when people cook they will remove the seed because they would get that bitterness.  So yes, for most people like you mentioned it is probably not an issue.  But if you think you may have a tannin sensitivity you might as well go for Paleo autoimmune I mean just to rule out that just because it is such a small degree that it could be other things that could be also causing these problems.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Absolutely.  You know individualizing it is important.  Not everyone is autoimmune sensitive where it is not going to be much of an issue.  I do think the benefit of drinking a little bit of tea outweighs the problem that you may get with tannins.  But if you are on the sicker side and you are more of a TH2 dominant person, and I do not think autoimmune conditions should really be put into that simple of a category.  Oh, for TH1 dominant you need to just push the TH2 side.  If you are TH2 dominant you just need to push the TH1 side.  I think there is a reason why your immune system shifts into one side to the other.  And by directing the diet, addressing stress and blood sugar and addressing chronic infection the immune system tend to naturally level out when you take stress off of it.  So I am not a big fan of just give an herb or supplement to push the immune system on one side of the other but look at it from a more individualized approach to what is pushing you in that direction versus just this reductionistic supplement approach.    

Baris Harvey:  Awesome answer.  Hope that helps.  So our second question is well actually a small question but it is more of a statement that he wants some extra I guess confirmation of.  So I think it is, Branton asked Paleo Diet/lifestyle and sex drive.  Do you notice a qualitative or quantitative difference in you sex drive since going Paleo?  Has been eating mainly Paleo for a couple of months and did notice an increased sex drive.  I assume it has to do with the increase in saturated fat necessary to synthesize testosterone, decreased inflammation and better blood circulation from fish oil, etc.  As well as an increased consumption of zinc and arginine from meats and nuts.  I have not added resistance training to my routine yet.  Does it make a noticeable difference?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So the main question just to summarize it back, he was basically asking about things that he can do to improve the sex drive on top of the Paleo diet?  Or regarding the Paleo diet just improving his sex drive?  I did not quite catch the question on that.

Baris Harvey:  Okay so he said that it improved his sex drive and he is just measuring some of the things that he did why he assume that he did and he is looking for a confirmation I believe?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Got it.

Baris Harvey:  And then he also said that he has not added resistance training though.  And does resistance training make a noticeable difference?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Okay, got it, got it.  Alright, so we look at hormones, we look at improving your hormones.  And again there are two kinds of hormones.  There are hormones that build you up, these are anabolic hormones:  testosterone, progesterone, estrogen and even insulin.  And there are hormones that break you down:  those are more of your adrenalin, your catecholamines, your corticosteroids like cortisol if you will.  So ideally, we are trying to use a Paleo type of diet or an anti-inflammatory low-toxin, nutrient-dense diet that is really what a Paleo diet is, right?   Low-toxin, nutrient-dense, anti-inflammatory.  We are using that as a way to supply the body with all of the substrate and the raw materials so we can build ourselves up and heal.  And as we start healing and building ourselves back up, we start shifting a lot of our hormonal substrate to these anabolic hormones just naturally.  So we look at providing the raw materials, the building blocks that is where the diet comes in.  That is where supplementing with certain nutrient-deficient compounds like if you are lower in selenium, if you are lower in zinc.  If you are low in hydrochloric acid and you are not able to break down these minerals, you may have good supply of zinc or a good supply of selenium in your diet but if you cannot break it down and absorb it there is going to be a problem.  If there is a hidden infection inside your tummy or your gut that is keeping your body in a stressed out state your body is going to be creating a lot of corticosteroids to basically put out the inflammation.  So imagine your body just shooting out a whole bunch of water out of the fire hose to put out the fire.  So we want to make sure we are driving the raw material part of the system to be able to build back up.  That is the most important thing.  So making sure the adrenals are strong.  We could easily look at some lab markers looking at DHEA-sulfate; it is a great marker for precursors to these hormones.  We can look at free and total testosterones.  We can look at a nice cortisol rhythm.  We can look at sex hormone binding globulin.  We can look at all of these markers and that gives us a good indicator if we are having the right amount of hormonal exposure just to could give us the ability to build back up.  Now once you have the raw materials, the building blocks, the nutrients, the ability to digest and breakdown things and you are infection-free now we can look at the other side of the coin which is how can we stimulate our hormones more.  Now stimulation typically comes through exercise, right?  Really important though, we do not want to stimulate, we do not want to whip a tired horse.  If that horse is already super tired we do not want to be whipping it with a whole bunch of exercise.  We want to make sure that we choose an exercise ideally that has a punctuated high intensity and ideally something that is fun to do.  Even functional movement is usually great.  CrossFit can be good for people that are healthy.  CrossFit maybe too much stimulation for a good percentage of the population especially if you have been sedentary for a while.  So finding the right kind of exercise.  If you are new, doing the Tabata can be really helpful because it is that 20-second high intensity to 10-second rest period.  You can easily do that on a non-compression type of movement like a bicycle or an elliptical.  It may not be that functional but at least provide the stimulation and make more growth hormone and to make more testosterone or progesterone.  So those are different ways to do it regarding exercise.  Again it should be customized.  If you have more experience, if you are an avid weightlifter or you experienced lifting weights you can use circuits.  You can do functional movements.  You can do CrossFit.  If you are just starting out, I recommend some type of a Peak 8 training or some type of a Tabata where it is a set cardio device where you can use the high intensity as a means to start out.  And then once you have more experience, seeking out a good trainer can help you incorporate the movement patterns for optimal health as a longer term means of exercise sport.

Baris Harvey:  Yes, definitely.  Totally agree.  And the simple answer is yes if you have the energy to do it.  There is nothing like heavy deadlifts or heavy squats.  And then you can definitely notice the energetic effect.  Of course not if you are just like pinning yourself up.  But if you have good form and you do some high intensity deadlifts you will definitely notice just this surge of hormonal impact that your body goes through.  And it is really awesome.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Absolutely.  Absolutely.  So focus on the diet side, the sleep side, the food side.  And if you are really fatigued potentially adding in specific herbs and nutrients and maybe even adding in a little bit of sublingual DHEA may be appropriate.  But that is on an individual basis.  I cannot just say, “Hey, if you have this issue you do that.”  You really want to individualize it.

Baris Harvey:  Yes, definitely.  Question number 3.  This is a good one.  Nursling I think is the name.  Asked can you use a probiotic capsule as a rectal suppository?  I am not sure if I believe that probiotic supplements ever make it past the stomach much less into the colon.  Since starting Paleo low carb and stopping caffeine I am constipated and fermented foods and drinks and probiotic supplements had done nothing.  I eat vegetables and they also do not help.  I think the bacteria in my colon is under populated and so I was also wondering if I can use a probiotic supplement as a suppository or enema.  This seems like it could go great or perhaps it could go disastrously wrong.  What do you think?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So when I deal with patients, one of the first things I have to look at is compliance.  (Laughs)

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So if I have this magic pill which I do not believe there is any magic pill out there just so you know.

Baris Harvey:  Unfortunately.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I know.  I wish, right?  So let us pretend we have this magic pill here that really does not exist but for the sake of this conversation it does.  If you cannot take that magic pill you will not get any of the benefit, right?  So my goal is well, what can you do that you are actually going to be able to do consistently on a daily basis that is going to provide you benefit?  Well, personally the average person that I see is not going to do a rectal suppository for probiotics.  It is just not going to happen.  So from a compliance level, we already got two strikes against us.  Now you got patients that are sick, right?  They may go to a greater extreme and do that.   That is possible.  I find personally people that have a problem with probiotics, is their guts are already in a super dysbiotic balance, right?  They already have a ton amount of bad bacteria in relation to good bacteria.  And they are just trying to throw a whole bunch of good stuff in there and it is almost like a war happening with all these bad bacteria and all the good bacteria.  A big war happening.  So I find it is much better off to go in there to level out the playing field, to kill all the bad bacteria first and then you have less competition for the good stuff coming in.  And people tend to have die -off reaction when this happens so using high quality ginger tea, using biofilm busters if you will could be really helpful.  Some really good biofilm busters or maybe the eleuthero, N-acetyl-cysteine, andrographis, monoluarin, oregano oil.  These are things that can help basically knock down the biofilms.  These are like the protective shield that most of the bacteria and critters in your tummy have.     

Baris Harvey:  So basically the plaque, right?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yes. I mean a lot of times these guys can even use metals and stuff.  It incorporates that into the biofilm.  So there are a couple of great biofilm busters that may use a chelating agent like EDTA and such to help pull out some of those metals to make that resistant shield that the bacteria may use less potent.

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So kind of recapping things, the analogy that I created that really works well and kind of creates the, “Aha!” moment with most patients is I actually answer their question with a question.  The question is do you get your car washed first or do you get it waxed first?   

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And then most people…

Baris Harvey:  You wash first.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  You wash it.  But then once I say, “well, why?”  Then it is like well you do not want to wax dirt onto the car because then you trap all the dirt underneath the wax, right?  

Baris Harvey:  Yes.  Exactly.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So it is the same thing with probiotics and a dysbiotic gut.  You do not want to just throw a whole bunch of good stuff then and it creates a big problem when you trap it all in there.  So you are much better off using biofilm agents, antimicrobial agents, things like ginger as well.  Ginger tea can be very powerful.  I have a great ginger tea recipe that I use because it is great with helping the coagulation and helping the body drain all of these things out and help with the detoxification.  And then coming in afterwards you have a much better chance of adding in some of the good bacteria.  And some people are more sensitive and you may have to use more of a soil-based probiotics.  Some I find can do a broad spectrum.  It really is on an individual basis. 

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.  Definitely.  So that brings up another question that I have so what do you think about colon hydrotherapy and then doing something like the high-dose probiotics on an individual basis?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I do not have a ton of experience with colon hydrotherapy.  I have spoken to many hydro therapists and asked so many questions about that.  My opinion is I am not sure what type of effect you are going to have just flushing some water up there regarding pulling or destroying or shifting bacteria level.  I am not sure how much you can really shift bacteria with a good colon hydrotherapy session.  I think you may if someone is really backed up or chronically constipated it can be a great way to kind of jump start things.  I just do not think it addresses the root cause.    

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Now that does not mean it is not therapeutic.  It does not mean it is not beneficial.  I just do not think from an underlying causal standpoint when you look at what is the mechanism I do not think it fixes the mechanism and the mechanism is dysbiotic bacteria, chronic gut infections, lower amounts of good bacteria and we actually have to fix that.  Now I think if you can do that in conjunction with the comprehensive program I think it is totally fine.  But again I will put it out there as a disclaimer, I do not have a ton of experience with that so I cannot really go out on the pedestal and you know really say no or yes against it.  

Baris Harvey:  Yes, yes exactly.  Yes same thing here.  I was just kind of curious like, “Hmm, that always comes up and it is just like I am not 100% sure, maybe, maybe not.  Because just like you said I have the same concerns.  Okay.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And I will always, I will always tell you, too if I am not 100% confident.  I will put it out there with a disclaimer because I really want to make sure all the listeners get good quality information.   

Baris Harvey:  Yes, definitely.  Okay just to kind of give a stamp on this one, if this person was like compliant, that would do something like this every day, would doing a probiotic enema be beneficial?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Well, here is the thing, in my opinion it sounds like the symptoms that this person is having is due to a significant dysbiotic bacteria in the gut and potentially a gut infection.  Now I looked at a lot of dysbiotic bacteria in the gut, if it is chronically dysbiotic all that means is higher amounts of bad stuff in relation to good.  It is usually some kind of infection.  So I would look at just throwing a whole bunch of probiotics in there like pulling a weed out at the surface of the ground and not pulling it out at the root.  So you can pull weeds out of the surface but they grow back.  And I think that is kind of what they are doing here, is they are just fixing it at the ground level and not at the root level.

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So I think this person would benefit actually getting to the root knocking down the infection.  Making sure the diet is changed so they are not feeding the bad stuff to come back and then adding in some of the good stuff.  And maybe this person wants to do it rectally that is fine, too.  I mean, pun intended that sounded like a pain in the ass doing that every day.

Baris Harvey:  (Laughs)

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I mean compliance is going to be low.  But feel free get to the root cause.  In my opinion, the root is going to be dysbiotic bacteria to begin with.  So get that wiped out.  Get that cleaned out.  Then you can do a lot of the good stuff.  And then if you want to do it rectally or orally I am totally fine.

Baris Harvey:  Alright.  Hope that helps, Nursling.  Next question is from Berge6Dad.  Trace minerals for someone drinking reverse osmosis water, sugar cravings, anxiety and depression.  “I drink reverse osmosis water exclusively and dealing with anxiety, depression and sugar cravings.  What trace minerals do you recommend?  I am otherwise healthy and in normal weight.  Been doing bone broth five times a week.  I have cut down on grains and sugar but the cravings are driving me berserk.”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  There are a couple of parts in that question so I will hit them one by one.  So I have had reverse osmosis filter for many years.  I also have carbon-based filters.  Right now, I am having a whole house water filtration system put in.  The first part of the water filtration is a carbon-based filter.  The second part is a bone char filter that is specific to fluoride.  So I have a lot of experience, lot of research with water filters.  Reverse osmosis filters are actually very wasteful.  If you look how much water is wasted, about 75% of the water that goes through it is actually wasted.  That is something that I have observed.  So it is not, you know, from an environmental standpoint it is not the best.  It does filter out the water very, very good but again it strips a lot of the minerals out.  So there are a couple of easy things that you can do.  You can just get a good high quality sea salt and you can kind of pinch it into the water just enough so you cannot taste it.  That can really be a good option.  I start my day with, I literally just get up and I grab a big glass of water and I take the salt shaker and I just literally put it into my mouth like I am salting my mouth.  And I do about 4 or 5 shakes and then I just drink a whole bunch of water and I do that twice a day.  Now, a lot of people that is going to be way too much, you know it is a bit too intense.  And then you just maybe put a little thing of salt out, you grab a pinch of it and you put it in your water and you do it that way.  That can be a good option.  And there are also a couple of products out there.  I know Trace Mineral Research has a really good liquid product where you can just put it in your water.  BioPure has a really good product called MicroMinerals; that is a really good liquid mineral product that you can just put in your water.  Those are great ways to make sure that you get enough minerals.  Dr. Brownstein has a book called, “Salt Your Way To Health”.  I believe salt is very important.  Just using unrefined high quality sea salt.  My favorite brands are either Celtic Sea Salt, Real Salt, and also Himalayan Pink salt.  Those are my favorite.  And I kind oscillate between the two.

Baris Harvey:  I have all three of those.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:   Yes, yes.  They are really good.  That is a great way.  I think I answered the first part of that question.

Baris Harvey:  Yes, definitely.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Now the last part of the question regarding sugar cravings, I find sugar cravings tend to be related upon blood sugar.  So making sure blood sugar is stabilized in the morning is very important.  Not having a good stable blood sugar in the morning, what I mean by that is it is not putting enough proteins, fat and healthy carbs on the fire, metabolic fire in the morning can set yourself up of yo-yos. So get in the right amount of protein, fat and carbs in the morning and then making sure you fuel that every four to five hours can be helpful.  Most sweet cravings happen because the blood sugar oscillates up and down.  That is when blood sugar cravings occur.  Now there are also supplements you can use as well.  You can use sea salts, you can use chromium.  I am a big fan of using a combination of 5HTP and L-Tyrosine for patients that have really bad cravings.  There are adaptogenic herbs that you can use like rhodiola those can be really helpful.  Adrenal support can be helpful because the adrenal do help stabilize blood sugar.  But first thing is just stabilize the blood sugar first.  Making sure you are getting enough protein and fat in every 3 to 5 hours especially if you are adrenal fatigued.  You have to be more on top of your meal timing.  And protein and fat are going to be perfect for stabilizing your blood sugar.  And then just adding the carbohydrate into your diet based upon your activity level and your metabolic profile.  If you are super overweight, you may have to cut down on the carbs. If you are more sedentary cut down on the carbs.  If you are more active and more healthy and more lean and do more exercise then you increase the carbs.  And try to use the safer starches.  If you are going to do starches then try to always stay away from the gluten.

Baris Harvey:  Yes, that sounds good.  And back to the trace elements research, do not use the full serving size in the salting your water will taste disgusting.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.

Baris Harvey:  Just a couple of drops if you do purchase that product because your water will taste like liquid metal basically.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Oh yes, absolutely.  And then use Pellegrino or Voss or Fiji water, Evian water those can really be good too because they do have a really nice total dissolved solids around 200 ppm.  So it is just enough to give you the minerals you need.

Baris Harvey: Yes, definitely.  Alright.  Hopefully that helps.  Let’s go to the next question.  The next question is from Jessica 30.  Right here it says, Breast feeding mamas.  “Do you have issues with low milk supply on Paleo?  Here is a long one.  Here we go.  So I was thinking that my milk this time around with baby number 2 would be awesome.  I mean what can be better than a Paleo fed baby, right?  I did a placenta encapsulation.  I have been drinking mother’s milk tea, taking fenugreek, blessed thistle and brewer’s yeast daily.  I have been eating a lot of carrots and coconut oil and just add it in bone broth.  And I know this is not Paleo but I have been drinking about a quart of milk per day, Weston A. Price suggested for nursing mothers and my supply is just enough to feed our little one.  There is no extra pump out afterwards to save up for the days when I have to return to work.  What gives because when we have a cheat day my milk supply jumps up to where I will get about 5 extra ounces that day to freeze for future use.  I just do not get it.  I know the problem is not calories because I eat more fat on a Paleo than I do when I am not Paleo.  I thought it might be carbs but I drink so much milk and eat so much fruits throughout the day that I just did not think that would be the problem either.  Anyone else has this problem?  It was suggested to me to try the soaked steel oats and eat them daily to help out a bit but I just do not want to add any grains if there really is no nutritional value to them.”  Dr. Justin, it is on you.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Alright.  When we deal with these issues, the diet is really important, right?  We need to make sure we have the raw material to make the milk.  So when we look at breast milk, the composition of breast milk is relatively about 55% fat.  I want to say 35 or 30% sugar or carbohydrates.  I want to say about 15 to 20% protein.  I maybe a little over a hundred there.

Baris Harvey:  I think…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Go ahead.

Baris Harvey:  It is about right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.  It is about right.  It’s right in that area.  It is over half fat.  That is the key component.  So you want to make sure one, that there is enough of the raw material ideally in those types of ratio to provide for the baby.  So that is really important.  Making sure the macronutrients are there.  It sounds like she is doing a really good job at that.  The next thing I would say is she breaking them down?  Just because she eats the food does not guarantee that you are absorbing, breaking them down, assimilating, utilizing, you know doing all of those things.  So let me just go into it from a preventative standpoint.  So anyone that is looking at this situation and wants to prevent from getting into this situation when they get pregnant is make sure your digestion is really working.  Go work with a functional medicine doctor before you get pregnant.  Make sure your digestion is on tract.  Make sure you are infection free in your digestive tract.  Make sure there are no stressors there that could be affecting absorption.  Okay.  Now with that being said, this girl is breast feeding.  She is already doing it now so you do not want to be knocking out any infections.  You do not want to be doing any detox stuff while you are breastfeeding.  That is disclaimer number one.  Now I would be comfortable adding in some hydrochloric acid, and some enzymes and some bile salts if they are having any issue just an insurance policy to make sure that she is breaking everything down.  But I would say do the HCL tolerance test.  Add some hydrochloric acid.  Add some enzymes.  Add some bile salts.  Find out the level that is just causing a little bit of warmness in your tummy and then back off that per meal.  That at least ensures that you are breaking everything down, utilizing it and assimilating it.  Making sure you are not drinking too much fluid with your meals but hydrate in between meals and then doing your best to manage stress as much as possible.  Those are going to be the first things.  And then obviously doing all the supplements stuff: there are hops, there is fenugreek.  Sound like she is doing some tea.  There are some good quality products out there that can be used supplementally outside of the tea that can also be helpful as well like the fenugreek and the hops are a couple of products that are really good.

Baris Harvey:  Yes. And looks like she said she is taking the fenugreek and the mother’s milk tea.  And yes that makes a lot of sense that maybe it is just her digestive system not being able to breakdown the foods properly because she said she does not think it is a carbs issue or a calories issue.  Maybe she actually needs to measure just because sometimes you might assume that you are eating more fat but maybe she said on a cheat meal she gets more milk.  Well, usually that cheat meal or that cheat day she is going to be eating more processed foods and those processed foods are already broken down because they are processed and she is using more of those energy sources and there is not going to be more nutrition in there but that could be the same way like you mentioned maybe her body is just having a hard time breaking down more of the Paleo kind of foods.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yes, if she was my patient what I would recommend, Herb Pharm makes a really good lactation tonic dipped in herbal tincture.  I would do that.

Baris Harvey:  Yes.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Fenugreek, there is fennel.  It has got some chaste tree in there.   Vitanica makes a really good lactation blends.  I would make sure she has enough therapeutic herbs outside of just tea.  I would do that as well.  I would experiment with upping her carbs.  I mean I will keep the fat up there but I would also try upping the carbs a little bit.  I would add some more sweet potatoes, add some more healthy starches and see what happens.  I would make sure the digestion is there.  Make sure the enzymes, bile salts especially if she has a history of digestion issues or if she gets gassy or bloaty or belchy at all.  That is a sign that that needs to be addressed.  So, digestion, making sure the right foods are there.  Using the right supplements at a therapeutic level and then just tweaking the carbs, alright?  I mean my approach is very individualized.  I am not going to say high carb, low carb, high fat, low fat.  I do believe the fat should be higher when you are pregnant.  There is research that the fetus will literally act like a magnet and potentially pull fat out from the mother’s brain.  And it is possible that post-partum depression is caused by a lack of fat being pulled out by the fetus and the baby.  So I do believe that the fat should be a primary part of the diet.  I would even add organ meats in.  Bone marrow, collagen, all of those good things and get it dialed in and just experiment.  Try it for a week see what happens.  Take a food journal, notate what you are doing.  Make sure you are consuming enough calories.  Use the, there are a couple of apps out there, MyFitnessPal, another one, is another one.  Just make sure you are consuming enough calories and not just for you but for you and your baby, too.

Baris Harvey:  Yes.  Definitely.  That sounds like a good idea.  And like you said, possibly upping the carbs because it is already like broken down will help a lot.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yes and also, too like if you are a female getting ready obviously a female, right?  But if you are getting ready to get pregnant it is really, really important to take 6 months of minimum look at heavy metals.  Make sure heavy metals are pushed down as much as possible.  Before heavy metals look at your adrenals, look at hormones, look at gut function.  Always take care of that before you go into any crazy detoxification whether it be with chemicals or heavy metals.  Make sure that gut is working good, digestion is working good.  Make sure your adrenal is just fine.  And then take a look at heavy metals and/or detoxification pathways.  And then once you are there then you can go onto pregnancy.  And I think you would have a decreased chance of having these problems.  But you got it now, so this is what I would at least do from a conservative thing that is not going to hurt your child.

Baris Harvey:  Okay.  Definitely.  Sounds good.  Last but not the least question.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Oh, I want to say one more thing on that.  Sorry to cut you off. 

Baris Harvey:  Yes. Yes no problem.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And let us say you are a female and you have exhausted all of your options.  Like you are doing the supplements, you are managing stress, you try to do sleep, and you are drinking enough quality water throughout the day minimum half of your body weight in ounces.  You are getting the fat in, you are adding the enzymes, you are adding the extra supplements and yet you are still having a problem.   Well, continue to do your best but at that same standpoint, there are good formulas that you can make at home whether you are using raw goat’s milk.  There is a couple of Weston A. Price formulas that involved combining liver with cod liver oil and raw goat’s milk or raw cow’s milk.  Raw goat’s milk tends to have a better profile for pregnant women because it tends to be more similar to our breast milk.  So just keep that in mind.  Even if you have exhausted all your options, you know you have spoken with someone from the La Leche League or a lactation consultant do your best to get your kid breast milk.  If you can purchase someone else’s breast milk it is that like important I would look into that.  You can literally buy breast milk from other women.  I am not sure the exact process.  I have never had to do that but I know it is an option.  Talk to a lactation consultant.  Worse off, you use these formulas to make your own breast milk.  Do not go the conventional formula route.  I would do everything we possibly can to avoid that route at the worst case scenario.  Use a Weston A. Price formula to make your formula.

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.  Definitely because when you are getting the formula you are not getting a lot of other beneficial things like colostrum that is in breast milk.  There is just so much bad things in formulas that we could use a whole another podcast just to talk about how bad formula is.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And again women that are healthy hormonally they are going to be in better shape hormonally to produce milk, right?  Oxytocin is stimulated by nipple sensation with the baby latching onto the nipples it stimulates oxytocin.  Oxytocin then stimulates that whole let-down reflex.  So women that are more hormonally healthy in my opinion are going to do better at breastfeeding.  So get your hormones like if you are a woman and you are like, “Alright, I want to get preggy.”  Get your hormones looked at a year before, 6 months before, make sure that your progesterone levels are good.  Make sure your adrenals are strong.  Do what you got to do to prepare ahead of time.  And all of the preparation once you have the problem it is a lot harder to treat in the moment than if you can prepare six months to a year.

Baris Harvey:  Yes.  Definitely.  One thing that I guess I thought of because you are talking about the broken down food, just because they would benefit using bio-available way to get nutrient we are taking like a mineral replacement or a high quality like protein powder might that be beneficial to get in more nutrients just because lactation is a very calorie intensive process?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I think that could definitely be beneficial.  If the woman is autoimmune though, you may want to go with a more hypoallergenic Pea Protein.  If you are pretty healthy you could probably add in some high quality grass fed whey protein and you can mix up the protein.  I think that is a very good option getting some free form amino acids in there.  Adding in some hydrolyzed collagen can be really helpful too, absolutely.

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.  Definitely.  Okay last but not least.  Roger says, “Why is my tongue yellow?  I have been to an ENT, two family doctors and a dentist and they said there is nothing much although I did get prescribed Nystatin, did nothing.   But I am not satisfied with having a yellow tongue.  Here is a picture.” And yes, so a link to a picture of his yellow tongue.  “Has anyone experienced this?  I eat Paleo.  Obviously.”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right.  So a couple of questions that I want to ask him first.  I want to know how his digestion is.  Does he get gassy?  Does he get bloaty?  Is he constipated?  If he has at least one bowel movement a day?  What is his history?  Has he ever had any infections at all?  If he ever got sick abroad?  Once I pared out a lot of that information that will be helpful.  I also want to look at his skin make sure he has no rashes you know, whether its psoriasis, dermatitis, dry skin.  I want to look at his finger nails and toe nails.


Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.


Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Are there ridges in his nails?  Does he have a fungal toenail?  Fungal foot nails if you will.  So you want to look at both the hands and the feet.  I want to look at the quality of skin.  Now once I look at that this for me this looks like a fungal issue.  Typically, it is caused by candidiasis.  Candida if you will.   

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  There is couple of ways.  You can clinically diagnose candida.  I think there is enough here to diagnose candida without running any lab work.  I also want to run a comprehensive stool test.  We can run some blood antibodies for candida.  We can also run a nice stool test to look for fungal issues as well as chronic infection.  Now some people that have chronic fungal issues it can be driven by just having a chronic gut infection whether it is bacterial infection or parasitic infection.  So a lot of times this fungus maybe like the weed.  You are ripping the weed out at the surface and you are not quite ripping it deeper at the root.  So looking and then making sure that the root is being pulled out.  And for some people it may be just an isolated fungal issue. For others it may be a deeper issue.  So typically when we address these things making sure they are on an antifungal diet which is typically a Paleo diet.  And if you read Doug Kaufmann’s book, “The Fungal Link” that can be helpful.

Baris Harvey:   Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  But basically meat, vegetables, only low glycemic fruits, no mycotoxin-free coffee all that stuff.  And then from there you can use the right herbs to wipe out the infection and then follow-up right afterwards with high quality probiotics.  Because if you just come in and use the herbs and you do not follow-up right afterwards with the probiotics you can get what is called a rebound fungal overgrowth.  A lot of people get fungal overgrowths primarily they are going antibiotics and they never comeback in with good quality probiotics.  And the average person has had antibiotic exposures multiple times so that is probably something that you would pick up in the history if you ask this gentleman what his history with antibiotics like and you will probably see something in there like that.  

Baris Harvey:  Yes, definitely.  What happens with a lot of these people like you mentioned they will clear everything else, they will take antibiotics and they will clear everything but then there is no repopulation of the good guys and now you have a clean slate and then the bad guys will just say, “Well, there is still nobody here let us just go back.”  And then basically, you killed all the invaders but you did not close up the gaps for them to get right back in there.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Absolutely.  And the big thing too is a lot of people forget this but people that have these issues can be hypochlorhydric.  They can have low stomach acid.

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And low enzymes, too because of all the stress from the infection.  So looking at that part of the fence can be helpful.  And that is why just using a Nystatin there or ketoconazole or fluconazole to eliminate that fungal typically would not get the job done.  Having a more holistic approach, where you address the diet which sounds like he has done but also address the digestion, address the deeper chronic infection.  Follow it up with the probiotics really would be the best way to deal with it.   

Baris Harvey:  Yes definitely good.  It is not just going to go away by using a tongue scraper. That is definitely for sure.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:   No.   No it is just like using Clearasil to treat a pimple.  That is just a manifestation of a deeper problem.

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.  Exactly.  Well, thank you guys for listening to another episode of Beyond Wellness Radio.  We love doing these types of podcasts so that we can get your questions and answer them.  If you guys wanted to leave a question that you have for us you can go to beyondwellnessradio/questions.  We have or going to be putting up show notes and a lot of other info for you guys soon to go along with these podcasts so you can go ahead and go to and you can find everything there and you can contact me or Dr. Justin in case you guys wanted to take the step further and work with us to bypass all the running around chasing symptoms when we can definitely help you get to feeling awesome in less time.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Absolutely.  And feel free and go to the website and sign up for show updates.  Any show that comes up you get an email so you will be the first person to know about it.

Baris Harvey:  Yes, definitely.  Alright, Dr. Justin.  You have it going.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Okay, Baris, you too, man.

Baris Harvey:  Right, goodbye.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Bye.



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