Different binders have affinities for various toxins based on the net charge and other molecular bonds. One commonly used binder is Chlorella – a living organism that has evolved to bind only to toxic metals, not essential minerals. Because of this, it can be used long-term with no risk of nutritional deficiency over time; Charcoal – a broad-spectrum binder that will bind a little bit of everything. It means it will bind toxins, as well as vitamins and minerals. So it is suitable for acute situations, not long-term; Humic and Fulvic Acids are made of decomposed plant matter, essentially dirt. They have been shown to detox glyphosate.
The binder that suits someone can also differ significantly based on the specific load of toxin. What works well for someone can also change during different phases of treatment, especially when the root cause is identified and fixed.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani
In this episode, we cover:
1:29 How to Eliminate Molds in Our Body
7:36 Probiotics
11:05 Mycotoxins
17:06 SIBO, Candida on Mycotoxins
22:55 Better Bowels
25:58 Different Binders
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We are live. It's Dr. J here in the house with Evan Brand really excited about today's topic. We've been talking about binders a little bit here recently. And we're going to be going into the top binders to help and improve mold toxicity and help kind of help your body get rid of mold in a safe, meaningful way. Evan, how you doing today, man?
Evan Brand: Hey, doing well, always excited to dive in with you here. Let's just drop the bomb right out of the gate here. Mold is epidemic. I mean, you saw several podcasts you and I've done together on mold, I got exposed my levels of ochratoxin were off the chart, I had a ton of symptoms. We took the family and lived in a hotel temporarily to escape until we could find a new plan, I had to get rid of a lot of clothes that were contaminated. I even tried doing some special laundry detergent we use and couldn't save some of my clothes. So I know firsthand that this can be a huge problem for people. And it can be frightening because conventional doctors, which we hear this all the time during consultation, they just don't really have a clue about this. And if you go to the emergency room with dizziness and shortness of breath and blood pressure issues and hives and skin reactions and food sensitivities and all these other what made to some people be crazy symptoms, you're just going to get like an anti anxiety medication and you get sent home. And that's where people start to question their sanity. So I hope that we can provide some sanity today and then also provide some actions, you know, action strategies of how to get this crap out.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. So the first off is how do we eliminate mold from our body anyway, so we have a couple of reasonable means that detoxification, the big ones that we're pushing are going to be the bile slash tool, because your liver and your gallbladder make bile, your gallbladder stores that and concentrates it and then we excrete that one to help break down fat, then some of that is going to be captured in the store and eliminated the the store. Some is going to be out the urine, right and a lot of Mold Testing, if we're testing someone, we're going to be testing via mold in their urine. So we're actually using urine as a way to assess mold excretion and mold levels. So the guts, stool and urine slash kidneys are going to be the biggest ways. We have some other ancillary ways we may be pushing and provoking such as using sauna or infrared therapy, which we're using the skin and the sweat to kind of excrete some of these things. Obviously, if you're a pregnant Mom, you may even be using breast milk. That's why it's important to to really get yourself healthy. So we're limiting the baby's exposure to mold via breast milk. So those are kind of some of the big ways and means the body is going to eliminate mold. Now, first thing out of the gate, I'm not a huge fan of jumping on and going after mold right away. Unless we have some type of acute exposure, where we know we're in an environment where mold is present where we can visually see it. We have very abnormal high amounts of mold via testing. We know there was a major flood or some area and we weren't able to remediate it. So typically, I don't love to go after it right away partly because healthy gut function is going to be one of the major ways that we detoxify from mold. So we know just based on the literature, that gallbladder function, good bowel motility, and good stool motility helps us eliminate a lot of mold. We know that because we're contracting our gallbladder, we're eliminating a lot of mold via bile synthesis and injection and then having healthy BM so just by having your gut on track, we're going to be eliminating lots of mold. And if we look at the different types of mold that we can kill it and pull out of our body, probiotics have effects on detoxifying nearly all mold toxins. Probiotics, according to literature, help us detoxify aflatoxin, gliotoxin stir riego matto system as your Alan own and the Atan B and citrinin. These are all different mold toxins, mycotoxins most of them are going to be eliminated with probiotics. Now what does that mean? That means out of the gate if you have healthy The best way to detoxify mold is having good healthy gut function and good healthy bacterial balance balance. So if we have SIBO bacterial overgrowth, gut infections that are throwing off healthy bacteria balance in our gut, that's going to be one of the major ways that we can kill ate mold is having good healthy bacteria balance and also having good healthy biliary function and good healthy motility. So if we don't have enzyme acid, bile salt production, are probably going to be slower motility. If we don't have good bacteria balance with healthy good levels of bacteria too bad we're probably not going to be able to kill it more efficiently as well. So probiotics are like I think the home run key later that most people don't think of right we think of like clays and charcoal and and medications like coolest army but we forget about the probiotics and how good healthy gut function plays such a big role.
Evan Brand: Yeah, this is crazy because you know when I first got exposed You and I were Actively researching and looking into the literature on this and it kind of felt a little overwhelming because it's like, well, crap. Now we got to work all these other things into the protocol. But now with the more and more research coming out on these specific strains, like you mentioned probiotics, but we'll also talk about something that we sell in market as a probiotic, but technically is a beneficial yeast saccharomyces. This has been shown to bind to aflatoxin, also okra toxin and zero genome, and glio toxin. So this is amazing because you and I've been using saccharomyces for years. And now all of a sudden, here we are, we didn't even really know this. We've been detoxing mold the whole time as a side effect of doing these Gup protocols with people. It's really beautiful.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. And this is why I tell people, if you go after the foundational systems in functional medicine, and not necessarily worry about all the symptoms downstream, you're going to hit and help so many other areas of the body. And it's kind of like bowling, right? If you just focus on hitting that first pin square, you're going to knock down a lot of other pins in the second row, right? Same kind of thing with functional medicine. If you hit the foundational pins, right, good digestion, good solid anti inflammatory diet, good motility, good anti inflammatory support, reasonably healthy, balanced adrenal, thyroid, female or male hormones that plays such a major role on immune function. detoxification, elimination plays such a huge role, and you can miss the crazy nuanced mole protocol, and still help people get better. Now, there's people that are going to still need additional mold support outside of this right. And of course, the more genetically prone You are right, there are certain people that have this kind of Ginny's certain genetic markers that make them more mold sensitive, okay. And then, of course, the levels of mold being in a mold environment longer living in that basement that's moldy without the dehumidifier and the sub pump, living in that damaged home, living in that flood damaged environment, these things, the leaky roof, chronically, it can definitely accumulate in your system. And even someone that's not that genetically sensitive. If those mold levels increase above and beyond for so long, you may eventually become sensitive. So we have to look at the environment and look at the levels and make sure we're trying to fix that environment first, but it's over the top, we got to really get that environment fixed. And that's why it's nice to be able to do Mold Testing that looks at your home first. And so we have some testing that we use various labs that use play testing, that can be very helpful, we're going to put links down below for the specific test that we use. So if you guys want to do some deeper testing, feel free, click the link down below. Any comments on that?
Evan Brand: Yeah, I just wanted to hit back on the probiotics, one of the mechanisms because I think this is pretty cool. And once again, this is just makes me feel better about the gut work we've been doing with people so many times, because like I said, we've been fixing things with mold, not even truly knowing it. So one of the mechanisms of some of these beneficial bacteria is that it actually up regulates glutathione s transferase. So here we are coming in now we'll supplement glutathione, but you're actually increasing Bluetooth ion just by taking some of these beneficial strain. So that is just absolutely amazing. And it's funny because we focus so much on the binders in the conversation of detox, you hear so much talk about charcoal and sauna and all these more intense therapies. But in reality, that's kind of the icing on the cake. It sounds like now for me, I still do take binders, I still do charcoals and clays and all of that. And I think it's totally beneficial. And if I take a hit if I go to a moldy building and take a hit the binders do help me reset. But I'm going to start working in just some high dose probiotics and see and I'll report back and see what if I take a big hit and instead of a binder, or maybe I do both, maybe I hit binder and probiotic and see if I get greater relief. That's gonna be an interesting experiment.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. Now, if you're out there, and you're like man, probiotics make me feel worse. Or if you have kind of like headaches or mood issues or more cognitive issues, or you just have more digestive issues, there's a good chance that you have cebo dysbiosis, bacterial overgrowth, maybe other types of gut issues. And those are going to have to be looked at because if you have those types of imbalances, odds are, there's a skew in the ratio of bad bacteria to good bacteria in the gut. And if we know there's more bad and less good that's naturally present, then it's going to be harder to have good healthy mold detoxification because we know how important those good beneficial bacteria are. So keep that in the back of your head. If you are someone that's like man, Dr. J never really talked about how all these mold toxins are super, you know, they get killed out by probiotics. You know, bifidobacteria lactobacillus saccharomyces, I can't take them What do I do? Well, you got to look deeper. You got to reach out to a good functional medicine practitioner and really work on getting your gut dialed in. Work on the six R's before we touch probiotics, right? Remove the bad foods replace the enzymes acid bile support, support the repairing of the gut lining and the hormones then work on removing the despotic bacteria and the infections. The fifth are is to repopulate re inoculate good bacteria, pre and probiotics. That comes fifth. Not first. Most people want to put that in first. So we guess you got to do things in the right order, then of course, the sixth art is to retest.
Evan Brand: Yeah, let's talk about pooping too, because you're mentioning all these steps with the gut. If people are coming straight into detox you mentioned you'd like to come at it right away. Part of the reason is because if people are constipated, you can't really start binding these toxins binding sounds really attractive. It sounds like Oh, you've grabbed on to the toxin. But really, this is not a super tight bond call the styrene is a very tight bond. It's very strong, but that's a prescription binder. And there are a couple of papers on mitochondrial damage happening. So I'm not a huge fan of color storming out of the gate for people if they already have chronic fatigue. Now, I'm not a pharmacist, I'm not a medical doctor. So if your doctor says cola star means the best Fine, go for it. But for me when I took cola star mean, I do think it irritated my gut quite a bit. So I was kind of fixing one thing and then irritating another I was pulling the mycotoxins out. But then my gut became more irritated and I had more sensitivities to certain foods. So looking back, what I've done it again, I don't know, I may have just lean more on some of the natural binders that would have just took longer, I was just desperate to get better.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% and so I know with colas diarmaid people that are listening, the research shows this is going to be more helpful to the mycotoxins that are produced by the Aspergillus and Penicillium molds. And a lot of times, if I haven't great evidence, you would know maybe a little more than me is the specific mold aren't necessarily the big immunological issue. It's more of the mycotoxins produced by the mold. Is that correct?
Evan Brand: Well, the bigger problem with the mold itself is just when you're colonized, so a lot of people will do on the Oh, you'll see that they're not colonized, but they just have the mycotoxins. So the way I say it is, you kind of have three situations. Step one, you could be a mold factory. Step two, you could be a mold reservoir, or technically, you could be both you could be a reservoir and a factory at the same time. That's when the actual mold is the problem. And then that's where the antifungals come in, in addition to the binders.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So you're saying, so you're saying the Aspergillus Penicillium mold can be produced by your internal microbiome because of different fungal overgrowth in your body?
Evan Brand: Totally, yeah, if you've been exposed long enough, or a big enough amount of it, or your immune system is weakened by other things, whether it's like you mentioned gut infections or lime or co infections. If something's weakened do enough in that colony can take place, then you're in bigger trouble and just using the binders won't get you better, because you haven't turned off the water hose. Essentially, you're still so even if you're in a desert island situation, you're still colonized. So you're generating mycotoxins internally, and binders are just going to open the drain, they're not going to stop the water pouring in the bucket.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it. So that's where addressing the gut stuff really makes a big difference, wiping out using specific herbs to kind of clean down the fungal overgrowth and bacterial overgrowth and make more of a difference. Of course, with molds, probably more on the fungal side, correct?
Evan Brand: Yeah. And that's the cool thing about what you and I do is we use a lot of herbs that are broad spectrum, right? So it's fun, because we may come in and see this colonization problem, but we're also going to come in and simultaneously be working on the bacterial overgrowth and the parasites and maybe h pylori is in the mix too. And worms and, and gut inflammation. So I would say rarely Are you just going to come in and just do the antifungals. We're probably going to see many more things going on. By the time you get to a fungal overgrowth. Like if you see on an oat test, you'll see the Aspergillus growing by the time you get to that point, there's probably also Candida, there's probably also some SIBO stuff, there's potentially also parasite infections to sort of find just the colonization so far, and all the testing I've looked at, it's pretty rare. You're usually going to have three, four or five infections at the same time.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, totally. That makes a lot of sense. I would just say out of the gates, think of the mold as like the seeds and think of the, the fruits that's that's bared by the seeds is like the mycotoxins and essentially, you're saying you could have a whole bunch of seeds down there. And not necessarily a lot of fruit being buried from those seeds or you can just have a lot of the the fruit and the vegetables right. Those are the mycotoxins. I mean, I have a lot of the seeds there. Is that correct?
Evan Brand: Yeah, that's a good way to look at it. Yeah. I mean, I think of mycotoxins. I just call them mold farts because you could go in a building and you could be exposed to okra toxin. in it. Let's say your child goes to a moldy school or a moldy daycare your child can be exposed to the Penicillium and the Aspergillus but it might not get colonized your child might just come home and it only has the mold fart inside of them. AKA the okratoxin the Michael-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And you can eliminate that and you can detoxify it. Some people they may just be genetically sensitive and they have a harder time eliminating that that mold far out of their system. Is that correct?
Evan Brand: Yeah, exactly. And so people they kind of question us like, Well, why is this such a big deal? moulds everywhere, blah, blah, blah. So just I just want to say just two things on that real quick. Number one is the buildings are much tighter than they used to be. So we don't have that natural leakage. I mean, you think of like an old 1800s farmhouse, you'll feel the draught coming in and they use plaster and other building materials. They didn't use paperback drywall like we use today. So the building materials have changed and the the homes are much tighter. So I mean, you could have an old house in Kentucky. From the 1800s built of plaster, and it might have not been moldy or if it was built of concrete or something, but now you've got lumber and then you've got paperback drywall, you've got high humidity, you've got the moisture. People used to do clotheslines, my grandmother would hang her clothes. I remember as a kid, she had the big clothesline, now, you have a dryer in the home, you've got moisture coming from that you've got your washing machine, you've got your dishwasher. Now where that thing is off gassing humidity, you've got showers and bathrooms, and we just build this moist on envelope which is a home. So that's why you and I we have whole house dehumidifiers in our house. So that's really one important strategy. If you're like, Okay, yeah, I'm gonna do the binders. Now what? Well, you've got to make sure your environment is an oasis. So it's the air purifiers. It's the dehumidifiers. It's the mold treatments that we do inside the home that really are the icing on the cake, or maybe not even the icing. It's the foundation if you're getting exposed. You're wasting your time with these protocols.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, it's very interesting too I saw, there was, I think, built in the 1800s. And one of the things they use for insulation in the home was a horsehair. So you had horsehair mixed with plaster all in the walls. And that was what they use for insulation. I wonder if I would imagine hair probably wouldn't mold too much. But it was really interesting. And they couldn't even get Wi Fi in the home because the horsehair was so insulating from Wi Fi technology it couldn't even pass through it met crazy.
Evan Brand: Wow. Well, I know a lot of the camper vans you know people are taking vans and converting them into like travel things for the road. They're putting wool insulation in there because the wool can get moist and wet and it won't mold versus if you're doing like a standard like cellulose or other type of insulation that will create mold. So yeah, I mean, nature is smart nature's got it figured out.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And that's probably why some of those homes that had the hair in it, you know, imagine the horsehair is probably very similar in regards to the lack of molding capacity.
Evan Brand: Yeah, there's it's not organic, right. I mean, some could argue well, that's here that's natural, but it's not an organic material like paper like mold wants to eat paper fungus wants to eat paper that's just part of it's the natural biological process. But here's [inaudible] interested in eating that.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And we talked about mold or fungus kind of colonizing. We have SIBO bacteria or Candida which is a common fungus species. All of these produce their own toxins, right. mycotoxins are produced from Candida as well. And these can create whether it's acid aldehyde, causing a drunk feeling or making you feel drowsy and brain foggy and tired or affecting the mitochondria, or whether it's endotoxin Produced by H. pylori or some kind of a bacterial overgrowth, whether it's citrobacter, prep, Prevotella, Pseudomonas, right. All these different types of bacteria, these things can affect obviously gut permeability. And when we affect permeability, we automatically have a negative effect on our immune system because the more permeable our gut is the more undigested foods the more these mycotoxins or endotoxins get in our bloodstream. They can make their way up to our brains and cross between the astrocytes which are the blood brain barrier, immune markers, immune cells, and once they're in their brain, they can create immune reactions. And they can activate our micro glial cells. And these can create brain fog issues, mood issues, maybe sleep issues, and of course, people have mold, one of the most common symptoms, is this, like this equilibrium brain fog type of scenario. Is that one of the symptoms you notice the most frequently, Evan?
Evan Brand: Totally, yeah, it's not fine, but I'm slowly recovering. And my old test did show I had Candida and my diets clean. So I'm basically animal base, plus some nuts and some berries here and there. And so people immediately think, oh, Candida, yeah, but I'm paleo or I'm AIP or whatever. There's no way I can have Candida. And you made a great point that Candida will actually produce mycotoxins specifically one called glio toxin and we can test for that via urine. Aspergillus mold also makes it so if you see super high gliotoxin and you're super spacey, we know that that could be from a water damage building, but it also could be from Candida. Yeah, if you look on Dr. shoemakers website, surviving mold, or Neil Nathan's book, toxic, those are great resources to look for symptoms, we put it on our intake form. Now that's how we justify testing is we just have those symptoms on there, and we just have people check it off on the forum. And anytime we see more than three symptoms checked off in the last six months, we just immediately say okay, we need to run for urinary mycotoxins and I will tell you pretty much 9.9 out of 10 times, if they check, check, check and then we test the mycotoxins are there. And then that gives people the confidence that we're doing the appropriate binders and the appropriate protocol to address it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and for me, a lot of times out of the gates when I see a lot of these cognitive issues, I just wait and see and look at how much of the foundational things we're going to do to improve it. So a lot of times just getting the diet cleaned up, getting digestion cleaned up, making sure we're eliminating, making sure the environments pretty decent, right? There's nothing over in the environment. A lot of times if we start to see movement on that people are improving. I don't even jump into the mold stuff out of the gates. I only jump into it if there's a stronger history, or things aren't moving in the right direction. Some of these foundational things.
Evan Brand: Yeah, you and I are a little different in that just because now people like seeking me out because they already know they've been exposed. Like, oh, Evan, I heard your story. It's like, Oh, great. Now I got all these like moldy people coming out of the woodwork to come get. Yeah. So they already know, you know what I mean? Yeah. So it's definitely complicated things.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, exactly. And if you're getting more people that are having these issues, and already know it, and already have done the foundational things that it makes sense to just kind of go into that next initial step, for sure.
Evan Brand: I say it's not really but but I didn't finish the thought on it, which was we were talking about pooping. And we got into the SIBO and the SIFO and the infections. And, and one thing we were talking about as the the idea of binding being really attractive, because it sounds like it's just going to grab on to the toxin. And it's just like perfectly in a straight jacket, essentially. But that's not actually how it works. And you can actually get worse using binders. And I did that one day. And in particular, I've had many days like this, but one where I took like eight capsules of charcoal, because I was just ramping up slowly to see how I felt when I got up to eight. Oh, my God, I was way worse. And the reason is, the binder is a weak magnet, I think is the best way to look at it. And so the mycotoxin is attached to it. But it can still detach on its journey through your intestinal tract and reabsorb into the bloodstream, especially if you have gut irritation or leaky gut. So this goes back into what you're hitting on, which is you really got to do the gut work, get the gut somewhat optimized first, or maybe simultaneously optimize the gut. Because if you've got all these binders moving stuff through, but your gut super leaky, or the second problem is you're constipated, you're not pooping, you're going to reabsorb a lot of this stuff and get worse. So if you've taken binders, and you feel worse, those are two reasons why.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. I mean, if you go, I think you can get these you see them at like the Science Museum and your kid. It's like a plate of iron filings. And then you put a magnet on top, and you can see the the iron filings kind of trailing the magnet. And obviously, like, the faster you go, you're going to see more of the iron filings kind of like falling off the tail end right kind of getting left behind, right? If you put that magnet in there and like you just really go slow through the the iron filings, or you keep a larger percent of those iron filings. So I kind of look at that is if we start using binders, the less we use, the less fall off, we're going to have as well. Well, one, the less you're going to mobilize, right and the less you mobilize the last fall off as a percentage, right and as a absolute amount. So if we're going to start with binders, we're going to start with a very, very small amount to mitigate the follow up percentage, that is just going to happen because Gavin said there's a weak bond there and so you can break some of that off. And of course, a lot of these binders could cause you to have slower motility. So if you're already on the fence with your guts, and you start doing any binders at all and you notice your motility starts to slow down, got to be careful, we gotta start either waiting, fixing the gut, maybe adding some natural motility support. We just have to be very careful binders causing slow motility is going to be a recipe to cause more mold die off issues.
Evan Brand: Yeah, for me, luckily, you know, I never had a problem pooping. My poops are always great even and I never got constipated. That's like the biggest complaint of it. No, I was fine. So for me, I was lucky. But many people they do get stopped up. So we will come in and use like magnesium can work great like magnesium hydroxide or citrate will use higher dose vitamin C. What else do you like to use to move the bowels?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, we can use natural pro kinetics, whether it's ginger, five HTP, a lot of times neurotransmitter five HTP issues can cause problems, because that really helps with the gut as well. We can look at things like carnitine we can look a lot of different bitters that can be helpful. Not having enough acid or enzyme levels can easily cause lower motility. Obviously, a lot of sympathetic nervous system stress over adrenal stimulation, can't activate more of the sympathetic nervous system that can slow down peristalsis and cause a lot of problems. They actually need more parasympathetic nervous system stimulation. So all those things can can push us in that wrong direction.
Evan Brand: Yeah, this is fun stuff. I mean, this is like one of the smoking guns. I mean, it certainly was for me, and I hope people are encouraged by this, you can get better with this. It takes time, timeline wise, two to three years is what I would say for most people with a major toxin load. I've seen it done in a year or so. But if you ask some of the medical Doc's that are treating mold, they'll say three to five year timeline, I just want to make that clear, because some people get frustrated, they'll say, hey, um, you know, six weeks into a protocol. And you know, here's my results. It's like, man, six weeks is just a drop in the bucket. So if you've been exposed to mold as a kid, or your mother had placental transfer, or you were breastfed, and that was transferred, or you grew up in a moldy house or had childhood exposure, you had exposure in your college dorm, then you had exposure in your office and your home. I mean, if you're talking 50 67 year old person reversing mold issues in two to three years, that's very fast. So I just want people to have realistic expectations with this.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep, obviously depends upon how long you've been accumulating these things for sure. I mean, if it's colonized, because if you're colonized-
Evan Brand: -too, you got to knock that out too. Because let's say you got exposed 20 years ago, but now you're colonized so you're just generating internal mycotoxins That is also something I think is going to definitely increase your timeline.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And your best way to look at that. It's going to be like an organic acid test where you're looking at some of those Aspergillus those type of mold. Those mold critters, is that correct?
Evan Brand: Yeah, there's like four or five markers on page one. I know you like to use Genova. Right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I use that test as well for some of these, you know, more more potential people, or for looking at a lot more oxalates and things like that. That's a nice test to look at that.
Evan Brand: Yeah. So that one's good. And then the Great Plains is good too. I mean, the page one on it's awesome because they also have a marker for I think it's try carbolic. I'd have to look back but they do have a marker now for Fusarium, which is cool because sometimes you'll see some people colonized for Fusarium, which is another mole but not Aspergillus. A lot of times it's both though if they're colonized, that means they were so weak or had so much exposure. Usually you'll see the Aspergillus and Fusarium you can see all mode molds growing. Maybe the technology gets better in the next few years. But for now, you can at least test the most common mold we see which is Aspergillus.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep. 100%. So let's kind of go into all the different binders. Right, we talked about costar I mean that's a medication that's going to help more of the okra toxin, right, the Aspergillus Penicillium molds. Charcoal is a common one. And like it, charcoal is very prone to constipation. It's also let's say, if you had tend to be more sensitive in the colon area, whether it's hemorrhoids or fissures, it can be a little bit rough on people's colons on the way out. So I find if you tend to be more prone for hemorrhoids, that can be a problem. So keep an eye on charcoal. It's a good one. It's the cheap one. It's nice, you know, that's coconut shells, right? That's where they're getting a lot of the good charcoal from. And again, we like charcoal for primarily removing a couple of different types of moles, right, the big mole that we're going to see with charcoal, it's gonna affect the trachoma scenes, right? It's going to have some effect on okra toxin as well. Those are going to be some of the big ones out of the gate with charcoal, Caesar anything else that charcoal tends to be very helpful with Yeah, okra and the trifle at the scenes. Anything else there?
Evan Brand: It may help us in pesticide herbicide stuff too, right? I mean, we know charcoal is a pretty good broad spectrum, but it's not perfect in isolation. That's why you and I like to use blends a lot because we see people go Yep, benefits of charcoal and then they just totally ignore the others.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. So it's nice to have some broad spectrum there. Obviously, we have things like clays as well, which are really nice, tend to be a little bit more gentle coming out the colon. Again, very helpful for gliotoxin ochratoxin zearalenone. There's a couple different mold toxins that you're gonna see more on the beneficial side. In regards to clays also, it's going to be very helpful if aflatoxin as well, f one and F was in a what be what you see more with the peanuts, right?
Evan Brand: Yeah, totally more food base, the area known to be zero and unknown is going to come from Fusarium that really cattle, right? Yeah, so the cattle, they they'll test high because they're eating like messed up corn, corn, nasty.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I've even heard Dave Asprey talking about putting zero unknown in the cow's ears, they'll put it in their ears, and it causes them to accumulate more fat. Now, we know that mold toxins have a negative effect on thyroid. So I wonder if it's just lowering the thyroid enough where they're just becoming more fat accumulators versus burners. So that's an interesting concept.
Evan Brand: Yeah. Well, Sierra Leone is super super estrogenic, too. So maybe it's just making them out of high estrogen and then that creates the body fat.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I know Dave talked about that many years ago, but which is really interesting, but putting it in the cow's ear, like a pellet. That's crazy.
Evan Brand: It's bizarre. Well, I can confirm that the clays work amazing. First year alone, we had a woman who had a lot of estrogen dominant symptoms. So we got to run the zeolite spray Actually, we just tried to go isolation and see how it worked. Man, it worked like a charm. We got the retest back in the zero linoone was gone and a lot of her estrogen dominance symptoms went away. So that was freakin amazing.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It's great. Next we have gluco monin and different fibers. So fibers are going to be really helpful whether it's like a modified citrus pectin. gluco monans. Also, another type of fiber that we use is a premier probiotic, it can be helpful, but that's going to be helpful against aflatoxin ochratoxin psoralen own modified citrus pectin is also shown to be great at biting up heavy metals lead different things like that. okra toxin like I already mentioned, those are some of the big ones out of the gate. Anything else you want to comment there?
Evan Brand: Yeah, before we forget to mention it. Calcium D glue grade is also really helpful. We do talk about that in regards to estrogen you and I've done a podcast on like bacterial overgrowth, and we've talked about how high beta glucuronic days will basically cause you to recirculate hormones and toxins. So, we will come in and use calcium D glucose as part of a mole detox protocol, but it does help with other things too.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep, I like that. Very cool. Next, chlorella chlorella is very good, really high in certain vitamins A C and E good source of fiber, helps with heavy metals as well been shown to be very helpful at mobilizing, really mobilizing a binding up to any mercury. It's in your gut. So if you're dumping a whole bunch of mercury via your gallbladder, from your liver into your intestines, it does help bind that up which is really Really good, very helpful at binding up different types of mold as well. The ones are going to be the aflatoxin. That's the one you're going to see more in food products, peanuts, right, that okra toxin, which is a common one that you're going to see. So it'd be more like, like water damage in the home for okra, right?
Evan Brand: Yeah, that's right. Yeah, Aspergillus makes that so and then also, you mentioned that mobilization. So a lot of times we'll use combos, so we'll use like a chlorella and cilantro cuz cilantro will help mobilize. And that's the cool thing is, you may create what's called a mycotoxin detox protocol. But in reality, you're working on heavy metals, you're working on pesticides and herbicides. So it's really fun because you're killing so many birds with the same stones when it comes to these binders. So chlorella is amazing. And we like to use micronized versions of it. So we can put links and show you what we want. And what we would want you to use, obviously, at this point, may be good to consult the practitioner, you know, we're happy to help or if you have another practitioner guiding you through this, who's done this before, it's helpful because you do want to be able to approach these things in a smart way and you want to know what to do if you do get a reaction because like I said, I screwed myself up many times, the best way to learn is experience in the trenches, and I'm in the trenches on my own mold recovery. And I tell you, too much chlorella sounds like Oh, just some chlorella. Whoa, right. That's powerful.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep, exactly. Next one humic acid, right, we see humic acid or different fulvic minerals. A lot of different companies are recommending these and pushing these now which are helpful, right? Click acid fulvic minerals, they're very helpful because they are anti inflammatory, which is really good. I think they tend to not push constipation as much right? You can kind of take them they're not going to slow down your motility as much. Have you had that experience?
Evan Brand: Yeah, you and I've used that one, the toxic bind, when that one with the fulvic acid is not as much clay are anything that one tends to move the bowels pretty good. It may even have a bow moving effect to it in reality.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep. And it doesn't, I don't think it binds up as much on the nutrient side, a lot of these binders, you definitely want to take more away from food, because they can bind up a lot of the supplements or nutrition in the food where the humic acids not going to be as competing for nutrients as well.
Evan Brand: Yeah, good call. I have seen that out where there'll be discussion like, Hey, you can take it with or without food. I still think empty stomach is better, though, especially first thing in the morning or even at night, because you're fasted and when you're fasting that's been proven to excrete more mycotoxin. So if you wake up first thing in the morning, you've been fasting for 12 14 hours. To me, that's a great time to take a binder
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. And if you're binding things up, and there's something there and you're binding up a nutrient where you could be binding up a mold toxin, well, you're kind of just you're losing kind of your bang for your buck on these binders. So you want it to have the greatest ability to bind to as much of the toxic debris that's present on other nutritive substances. So we got to keep an eye on that. And the next we talked about probiotics we already hit that right that's going to have a major effect on binding with many different models, whether it's aflatoxin gliotoxin, Stratego. matto syston the tri coat the scenes, the psoralen own, the annotated bee and then the Citron and these are different mold toxins that we already hit on in the beginning I'm just gonna re summarize that again for y'all but probiotics tend to have the best bang for your buck that's why working on fixing your gut even if you don't have mold issues is gonna make you more prone to mold toxicity in the future having good motility. good healthy gut bacteria balance good digestion really is the foundation for healthy mold detoxification excretion.
Evan Brand: That's amazing, isn't it? Because you and I've gone and and I totally appreciate you being on board with me to go down some of these mold rabbit holes together ever since you and I became educated on this and Oh, totally, we kind of went in some, I don't want to say tangents. But we've dove into Glutathione and [inaudible] and cell membranes and all these other things. But now here we are, again, circling right back to the foundation of just improving the gut function. And that's just amazing.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely, I totally agree. So anyone listening if you guys enjoy this or you want to dive kind of a little bit deeper down the rabbit hole of mobile detoxification and or of course dealing with the gut because that's a major foundation for it. Feel free click down below we're going to have links to Evan's site EvanBrand.com where you can reach out to Evan, also my site, JustinHealth.com where you can reach out to myself Dr. J, we're here to help you worldwide via Skype, FaceTime, all the different video mediums as well as phone, we're excited to work with you all we have colleagues as well that we work with to help kind of get people in the right direction. Outside of that, anything else you want to highlight?
Evan Brand: Now that's it, we'll put some links below. So you can check out some of the products we do have some professional probiotics that we use clinically that we give to our clients. So these are things that you can access to just as a listener of the show, and that'll support the show. But more importantly, it'll help you to get this stuff out of your body. So take care and if you have questions, concerns, please reach out we're here for you.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Thanks. So I will put our links below for the products and labs and supplements that we like and use the most at our practice. Thanks guys. Have a phenomenal day. Take care y'all.
Evan Brand: Take care. Bye
https://justinhealth.libsyn.com/the-top-binders-to-help-detox-from-mycotoxins-and-mold-podcast-337
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