The Top 5 Ways Your Water Could Be Hurting You & How to Fix It | Podcast #350
We need to stay hydrated but is the tap water in your home safe? When we drink water at your house, it must meet strict safety standards as well.
Water can be contaminated in several ways, according to Dr. J and Israel. It can contain bacteria and parasites that get in the water from human or animal fecal matter. It can contain chemicals from industrial waste, spraying crops, and many more. That’s why it is essential to invest in water filters if you can or make sure that your water source is safe to avoid health problems in the long run.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani
In this episode, we cover:
1:19 – Fluoride
6:06 – Chlorine
10:45 – How does Clearly Filtered work?
18:47 – Herbicides/Pesticides
19:56 – Pharmaceutical Drugs
26:03 – Contaminants Detected
30:53 – Benefits and advantages of Clearly Filtered
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey guys, it’s doctor Justin Marchegiani here. I have Israel Passwater on the show today. We are gonna be talking about water, water filtration, some of the top five toxins that may be in your water and hurting your health. So, really excited to have Israel on today’s podcast. Israel, how we doing today man?
Israel Passwater: Doing good man. Thanks for having me, Justin. It’s a great day, great to be here.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely, really excited to have you on. Um, one of the reasons why I have Israel on, he’s an expert in water and water filtration and the different technology but Israel also has a product to it’s basically, the better Brita filter right. We all know the Brita filters, right. The problem with them, they make the water taste a little bit better but they don’t filter out a lot of the other toxins. In Israel, it’s a product that actually filters out more of the toxins and It’s a kind of a low-cost product to kind of get into the water filtration space and I’m really excited. I talk about whole house water filtration, a lot of counter top, um, reverse osmosis systems. Those are great, they also involve a little bit of install, you may not be at a property that allows you to do it. So, this technology allows you to do it passively. It’s like a Brita filter for your fridge but gets of more of the toxins and more of the crap out of the water. We’re gonna go into the technology and some of the things that we need to be avoiding in our water to have healthier metabolism. So first off like, what is the number one thing in water today that needs to be filter out that could be hurting our health?
Israel Passwater: That’s a great question. It depends on who you ask, um, from our perspective fluoride would probably be the number one, because it’s in about 75% of the water supply, uh, internationally and nationally. So, that’s one that we believe to be in science has shown that there are, uh, issues or questions at least on the long term effects of that, uh, so typically when people are looking for, uh, like a water filter that will come about us, they say I’m looking for best water pitcher that filters fluoride or heavy metals or whatever it is you’re, you, you look on the news and you say, oh there was a contamination outbreak and there’s lead in the pipes and it’s in the water supply that’s where you know good parents like us will go and say, okay well, I need to find a solution to that. And that’s usually where people will find us without, oh wow clearly filtered. I think I’ve heard about them. If they haven’t heard of us, oh that’s pretty cool. So that’s usually the start of the journey is realizing that there is, uh, there’s toxins in the water and it’s not ah, oh maybe, oh gosh, I wonder if it’s really a real thing. It’s proven scientific. Um, so that’s usually where people kind of stumble upon us and not to start off with a scare tactic but again, that’s kind of what we do. We provide a layer of safety to bring help, people live healthier lives, you know, so we’re just.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, awesome, yeah. So, we have fluoride. Right now, there’s a lot of misconceptions on fluoride. A lot of people think of fluoride, they think of like, um, calcium fluoride, there’s some natural fluoride in the environment. You know, what we’re talking about is more of the Hydrofluorosilicic acid, more of the synthetic fluorides that, um, you know, a lot of dentists that are well-intentioned topically, may put on someone’s teeth to help make the enamel stronger, the problem is when you’re swallowing it, it’s a little bit different. It’s like seeing the benefits of sunscreen, so you don’t get burned and saying well let’s put in in the water and drink it right, so there maybe, you know, a lot of the data out there, maybe some of the benefits of fluoride, maybe more topical, but we’re talking about ingesting it orally. So probably not the best right? It’s good if you’re gonna, if you’re gonna be on a medication which fluoride is that you actually dose it. You don’t really control the dose when you put it in the water supply. So, I think that’s a good point and uh, keeping that out is beneficial and there’s a lot of studies if you go on pubmed and fluoride in the water supply and fluoride correlations affecting thyroid function and going down and even IQ going down. So, a lot of things there to kind of highlight from an implication standpoint.
Israel Passwater: I hate going to the dentist. But last time you go to the dentist, they do the fluoride treatment, what they tell you to do, they don’t tell you to swallow it right, they say no, rinse your mouth out, right? It’s like, it’s like they go, okay well, that makes sense but then people realize that you had fluoride and stuff like chloride being in the water. It may serve a purpose but maybe not the purpose they intended it to do so. I think maybe good intentions or at the time in 1920s or 30s when they started fluorinating the water. It was because not everyone had great dental care and access to dental, dental health, you know, so again, the rationale for doing was much different, well, and then it also depends on who you ask but again that was one of the main historical pinpoints why they started doing that but as we know, doctors also used to recommend smoking for lung capacities too in the 1920s and 30s.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And even sugar consumption as well, and anyone that has a kid that has like, you know, typical Colgate toothpaste, go look on the back of it, right it says you know, pinky size, pinky size amount and then it says, if you swallow, call poison control. So you know, there’s some understanding that this stuff is harmful and it’s always better to use a healthier toothpaste as well and get the fluoride out of your water, I think that’s a good first step. Also, I think half of all cavities, I think in teenagers and caused by dental fluorosis, meaning too much fluoride actually, causing the enamel almost crack.
Israel Passwater: Yeah. It’s an over-fluoridation that the concentration. So, yeah, there’s again, it depends on who you ask, but most people that have spent anytime and obviously you have looking and researching and I would encourage everyone and again, I’m a big believer because again, I come an educator’s background, um, again, I want everyone to do their own research, always like trust but verify, um, but the internet is a powerful place and there’s a lot of things, and Justin and I were talking right before we went live and I think the cool part about, you know, living in the society that we have and sometimes scary part is the access to technology that you have at your fingertips on your iphone, uh, stuff you can research, you know, if you have trouble sleeping at night. It’s like there’s a lot of information out there, so again, I like to encourage people, whatever you know, if it’s you know, our brand or another brand, whatever, just do the research, find out what your, what’s on your water supply and you know, be aware you know and obviously drive cautiously in that sense, you know.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. People are listening, if they’re really interested, I put a link down below for the clearly filtered water filter, justinhealth.com/clearly-filtered. It’ll be right below, so if you guys want to take a look at it, we’re going to just go into what those big toxins are and the technology in a few minutes. So, we hit fluoride, why don’t we go to chloride next, right, I mean chlorine has well-intentioned right? It has reasons there to kill bacteria and kill things like that, but the problem is they leave it in right and it kind of has a smell that everyone knows what that chlorine smell looks like or smells like, because of being in pools and stuff. Uh, let’s go over chlorine.
Israel Passwater: Yeah. I mean it just depends, like again, the rationale for keeping chlorine in the water was that for transportation, you know, the idea was that they’re transporting in pipes long over long distances, you know that was the intent initially. But again, they’ve seen that chlorine vapor can cause long term damage to vital organs and they’ve there’s all sorts, there’s no reason they should be, uh, in the water supply. So, from our perspective, again, that’s another villain that people obviously don’t think about you know. They don’t think about it, oh it’s chlorinated. We’ll, that chlorine smell is, you know, what do you do when you get out of the pool, you rinse off right? It’s like you go to your face. Hopefully it’s salt water, you could. If you’re fortunate enough to have a saltwater pool but you know, what you go, you’re going to rinse off, you don’t want your hair to turn all nasty and green if you have blond hair. So again, there’s all different reasons that you say, okay well yeah, that’s chlorinated but should I be consuming that. You don’t drink pool water, but again there’s lesser concentrations obviously in the tap water but it does exist. So again, another reason people find us say, okay well, I want to take the chlorine out of my water, oh okay cool, so.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And a lot of times with that motivation, it’s more of just the taste and the smell, they just want the water to taste and smell a lot better right. So, there’s more of an anesthetic to that right?
Israel Passwater: Great point. So, a lot of it, like, if you go on our website, okay, this is I don’t want to make this salesly at all but I think if you look up different types of, uh, the contaminants we remove, a lot of the ones that are cancer caused into parts per billion not parts per million, so parts per billion. Like you take a medicine dropper, drop it in an Olympic sized swimming pool, since we’re talking about swimming pools but stay with the analogy that you take a mess and drop or drop, one drop some of these things are poisonous and parts per billion and that’s considered toxic and you think there’s a lot and the concentration is a lot higher than a lot of these. So, again, people don’t realize this and once they start to realize, they go, oh my gosh that’s really my water and there’s lots of different ways you can check your local water supply and see what’s in there and it’s truly eye-opening and if not scary.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh yeah. And being a functional medicine doctor, I’m very concerned about gut health and I know chlorine has a lot of negative impacts on the microbiota in the gut too.
Israel Passwater: Yeah. Oh, I forgot one of the things I was gonna say, a lot of the things you were talking about like odor so like chlorine. Like chlorine taste and odor is pretty standard like when you look at the industry for like water filtration kind of like benchmark. It doesn’t really much, but it’s like oh it tastes good, okay great, it must not be toxic. The problem is, most of the things that are cancer causing and you know, all sorts of detrimental things, you know like are, you can’t smell it, they’re odorless, they’re tasteless and you can’t see them because they’re microscopic. So that’s kind of going around with the sun, this illusion of safety, um, but again a lot of times you can’t see something that’s going to potentially be very harmful for you and your family. And that’s, I mean it’s scary but it’s true though so when people say, oh it tastes fine okay well or like, you know, I think my water taste fine because I live next to an aquifer or something like it. Again, the assumption is it’s safe but reality is that you know, most of the population has again with fluoride that 75 plus percent of the water supply is fluorinated, so.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And then can’t chlorine convert to chloramine as well? Can you talk about that one?
Israel Passwater: Yeah. Uh, I’m trying to remember the process but yeah, they, It can, It can interact and one, the interaction sometimes can have detrimental effects as well. I’m blanking on the term, if you can prompt me that’s fine, but the point is these things shouldn’t be in the water supply anyway so, um, so yeah but yeah, so typically that’s how people find out about us or start thinking about us and that’s where we come in is like, a really good option, you know, so it’s like yeah you know, like I’m looking at your success pyramid, you know, like a lot lies underneath the surface and the same thing with water filtration.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. It makes sense because they’re putting a lot of these compounds there because they’re trying to prevent, you know, the bacteria getting in the water along the way but in the end you’re gonna drink it and so it makes sense that there is some kind of end stage filtration that we put that water through before it goes in our mouth and we know if chlorine is affecting bacteria in the water well what’s what about all the eight pounds of bacteria in our gut.
Israel Passwater: Yeah, it’s correct.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, it makes sense, we know 80% of our immune system is there. So, it’s gonna have negative impact with our microbiome, our immune function, so it’s good that we have ways to get it out.
Israel Passwater: Yeah. Especially if you’re immunocompromised too, that’s a real significant topic, you know, for people that are like yeah or just sensitive to certain things. You know,
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%
Israel Passwater: There you go. That’s our website, um, so
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I just pulled up on screen first thing, we hit the, um, the first thing we talked about was fluoride, we talked about fluoride and the Hydrofluorosilicic acid right? Before Hydrofluorosilicic acid, we talked about, you know obviously the percent removal. This is great and this is all confirmed via lab testing is that correct?
Israel Passwater: Correct. Yeah. That was the thing I was gonna touch on too. Whatever you choose, okay, so like, when I’m talking to people that may or may not know about us or have you know, a medium interest in water, you know filtration, um, they say, well okay well, you know, how do you compare to brands x, y, and z and go okay well, we do actually if you go on our website, we actually have a few comparisons like how we compare to like, you know like Berkey, Aquatru or some these other brands that you know are might be larger companies might have you know bigger marketing budgets but they again, when it comes down to it, it’s all what is testing is proven to do and then how was it tested, where was it tested and that what are the standards. So again, the cool part about our, uh, filters is they’re tested at EPA and NSF, uh, certified laboratory. Uh, we test stuff all the time, we actually just recently updated our pitcher testing so like for now we’re, uh, up to 273 known contaminants. Oh yeah, that’s a cool video too if you have ever wanted to check it out like the red dye test. But it just kind of gives a powerful visual of you know what our filters are doing and again imagine the red dye being toxin xyz.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Toxins, yeah exactly.
Israel Passwater: Yeah. The cool part again, again our filters are tested. They work and again we feel we have the best option in the space or and again we’re not the only option but we’re probably the best, uh, as far as when you’re looking at water pitchers especially or our point of filter systems like our under the sink or inline filter for your refrigerator, I mean, we really in, again, we have bottles so we kind of fit in the niche of like between like, hey I don’t want to put in a whole house system because there are some good house systems like as you and I were kind of chatting about yeah, but I want something portable, I want something I can take with us, something I’m renting a house and I want to be able to have clean and safe water for my family, we fit in really well, there so.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent. Very cool. So, let’s continue to hit, so we talked about fluoride, we talked about chlorine which I think is really important for all the reasons, we mentioned chlorine right here 99.5 and also the chloramine which is a metabolite too so we’re knocking a lot of these down. Let’s go into the plastics. I think this is really important because of the microplastics so you have different plastic compounds BPA, various estrogen chemicals. You could probably put, um, pesticides, perforated chemicals in there, different chemical pesticides runoff.
Israel Passwater: Yeah. A lot of time, they think, well how do microplastics or like us pesticides end up in the water supply because when you think about it, you know, I see you know, neighbors of ours out there were like you know roundup and which is equally horrible but they’re spraying killing weeds and stuff I got to go but what people don’t understand over long periods of time that ends up and seeps into the water supply and then again local municipal water department doesn’t necessarily have the tools in order to filter that out, you know, so again, the assumption of hey it’s safe or with microplastics a lot of industrial runoff, you know, we build and create things and that ends up also in the water supply too so there’s a lot of different ways because of runoff and seeping and leaching over long periods of time that can come downstream to us and things that we’re just becoming more, uh, clear about it, more, uh intentional about, um, I think that what again why people go. Oh my gosh. There are actual pharmaceutical drugs or another one. How are pharmaceutical drugs..
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly
Israel Passwater: Well and yeah
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. With a lot of these chemicals too, a lot of times they’re still like pecs, piping that’s plastic, there’s still some plastic piping. So, a lot of these things may be running through that as well
Israel Passwater: Which are not BPA-free as we know so and yeah and again BPA is limping like all sorts of nasty stuff too. So again, It’s really just kind of like a systematic like, aha, moment like, oh there’s a problem with my water supply potentially oh okey tell me more about that and that’s typically where people like I said like gravitate to and again gravitate it doesn’t have to be us but again we are certified to remove more contaminants than most of your, your top brands, you know, so uh, again, we feel like we have the best big mousetrap to use the term you never talked about, um, and uh again sometimes, you know people ask me like about a compound, we haven’t tested for. I go, you know what probably but I can’t say it until we’ve proven it but again all of our lab test is available on the website, you can download it and take a look at it. So, the biggest thing, I would like to say too is like for anyone in that space and interested in that, do your research but ask, you know, if the testing data isn’t available on the company’s website or on the packaging, ask for it. If say, hey I want a copy of your testing data and a lot of they can’t prove that or it’s tested for five gallons or in-house. I’ve heard something on the radio today, you know, it was like yeah 4 out of 5 people said that they felt that better, I think it was like a like a protein powder or something like. I gotta go, I go, that’s a perfect example like oh trust me it works it’s fine, well we tested it in-house for people that are on the payroll, you know, so stuff like that, that’s what you have to pay attention to, you know.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% Yep. That makes a lot of sense. Let me keep by hitting other things. So, we also just have general bacteria and viruses right, I know, that’s really important especially with what’s happening today in the world right, um, so viruses getting that out of the water whether it’s a Rotavirus etc. or just general bacteria, E. coli. Different various cysts, I know, parasitic cysts, Klebsiella, Giardia. These are all different microbes that could be in the water as well. Let me just show that here as well, that’s important. Tell me a little bit more about that and so you’re saying conventional water filtration, they’re not gonna be getting rid of some of these bacteria, cysts, viruses?
Israel Passwater: They won’t, because again they’re servicing like volume. So, one of the things you’ll notice too like when you first makes …, is that they’re again, it’s a catch-all. They’re doing, I would not say they’re doing there best, they’re trying to service a very large population because like at least here in California, is like, when they were building the infrastructure like yesterday, I assigned a new place ice hockey or driving on the freeway through L.A. and he’s going why are the roads so bumpy they go we’ll again because they’re old and they weren’t you know why are we hitting traffic well, they weren’t designed to service this many people. Same thing with the water supply. Again, when California’s infrastructure was built, you know, 100 years ago, it wasn’t planned. They weren’t planning on having this many people live or what again, great place to live, um, whether wise but gain from an infrastructure standpoint for water filtration like servicing a lot of customers and they can’t again. That’s why good filtration takes time, um, so like you know people know it’s like oh wow, how long does it take to develop your water pitcher, usually about 10-15 minutes. I go, oh wow, that’s kind of slow, no it’s actually good because it’s doing its job so, um, it really just depends on how you look at it but again trying to service a bigger catch, uh, a bigger net but against letting some of those particles and contaminants through because again, they can’t, they’re not set up to do that and that’s okay but knowing that you say okay well I gotta go take the next layer, the next step in order to protect my family and myself, you know, so
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That makes sense because it takes a while for water to fit through and if you’re trying to get millions of gallons out, it’s gonna be pretty costly and it makes sense to filter it source you know. I mean where it’s coming into the home so it’s most like that this should be just something that everyone should have anyway. So, they’re trying to make the water decently clean, so you don’t get really sick, taking it in but it’s still not gonna have the health properties that we need overall.
Israel Passwater: Right. And that kind of goes with the assumption of like, okay so like I have you know even if you have like a whole house system, some of them are rated different rates and some of them aren’t rated at all so it really like depends on it so again that’s the first step but the second step typically is like people like oh well I have a fridge, a refrigerator, LG refrigerator that’s got a filter and it has a light that goes on when I need to replace like filter and they say oh cool great and they asked the same question, oh well, what is the filter actually doing, they kind of have the deer in the headlights look like, I don’t know, I have no idea well it’s again the assumption of safety the illusion of safety is like oh it’s a filter okay it’s like a seatbelt was it crash tested, I don’t know, it’s the seat belt though, you know, so but again we wouldn’t again I’m kidding, it might be a poor analogy but like that’s the kind of assumptions that you walk around with like oh okay, it’s gonna filter okay cool. Well, what does it do, I have no idea but part is that we do have an idea and we can prove it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep. And we kind of already highlighted the herbicide that is a big deal because of pesticide runoff. It’s coming in from different farms, it’s going into our water supply and again this is like a wide category right, I mean, there’s all kinds of organopesticides and these affect our nervous systems. They are hormone disruptors, so they can really throw off hormones. This is a big one right. Any comments on the herbicides at all?
Israel Passwater: Yeah. I mean especially typically when someone’s asking about the herbicides and pesticides, a lot we have a lot of mothers are asking about that they’re expecting getting out..
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 99.99% out so this is great. So, this is really significantly reducing our reduction and just not cut you off but these things are really powerful at very low doses so you don’t need a lot of it to affect your body, right?
Israel Passwater: Correct. Yeah. They get effective dose on or the, the lethal dose but yeah it doesn’t take a whole lot in order to do a whole lot of damage, um, and that’s again a scary thought, you know.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% So we talked about pesticides that’s important because we’re getting exposure there, I would say the next thing, um, we talked about pesticides and herbicides. They’re kind of the same camp, right? In the same camp there, I would say the next thing after that I think is really important, um will be medications. Can we talk a little bit more about the medications and like statins, antidepressants so if even if we just like pee right these metabolites are going through our kidneys and they get into the water, right?
Israel Passwater: Well, because you think, like how on earth could like this kind of stuff be in the tap water and then initially when we started talking about this, I go really there you go, that’s, that’s a thing well yeah obviously our body filters it through our own filter system and it excretes all the toxins that’s what your body designed to do but that also includes trace amounts of insert whatever, uh, pharmaceutical drug you’re taking, you know, so that stuff shows up in traceable amounts in the water supply and people are kind of shocked when they find out, you know, like roundup. Okay I see like, my neighbors sprinting around up on his on his yard or something about ant killer or whatever the toxic thing yeah, I can see that it rains it runs down the drain it goes into the water suppl, makes sense but pharmaceutical drugs, you think, how on earth that well okay, when we think of it from us being the carrier or at least the disseminator of that or if you’ve ever dumped pills down the drain or down the toilet that can also end up with water supply too. So again, there’s a variety of ways that happens, um, but it’s something that we need to pay attention to, uh and something that’s very easily overlooked.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I mean just looking here on, on the list that you guys are actually testing right deep. That’s insecticides or you know, uhm spray for mosquitoes, right?
Israel Passwater: You think, okay like that makes sense. You know but some of this other stuff is like, like way hardcore you know. So it’s like..
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: This phenol A, obviously a plastic compound, a lot of the hormones that women maybe on which we don’t want men being on right?
Israel Passwater: Correct.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s like GABA medication, right? And then you have, um, just trying, I don’t recall some of these names, Naproxen, that’s some pain medication.
Israel Passwater: Yeah. Again, I’m not a medical doctor, my degree in exercise physiology so like but again from a from health perspective, you think of all the things you do, during the week, you know, you know, like I’m a runner you know, it’s like, like training I’m running 60 miles a week, I’m stretching, I’m cross training, I’m taking some supplements, I’m trying to eat healthy and you know not drink too much or whatever it is you’re trying to do but again an easily overlooked one is like what, how, not just how much water you are drinking what kind of water are you drinking so that’s where really people go, oh, yeah you’re right, you know pesticides as we see, you know, its like, you know, those kind of things. They’re there, there proven and uh, I don’t know if you’ve shared with your audience
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: For this handout people here, this is uh, anyone listening we have some stuff on the screen shared here. This is the actual lab assessing assessment testing on 100 gallons. This is cool. So, we’re seeing this is also getting removed like we know it and so on the website, you, kind of have it here right, you, kind of have it oh, you had it listed here, what was being removed but then we actually have the lab assessment here so that’s cool.
Israel Passwater: Yeah. Yeah yeah. And again, yeah, we’re going to be adding some features on the website so if you look over the next week or two or three. It’s gonna have some other tools that we’re adding not to tease it but again we, the way it kind of the way I see is like, you know, from not just like we’re not selling water filters will help them educate people too that’s obviously why you and I are connecting on the podcast today but I think it’s important to if you take away nothing else from this podcast other than, hey I maybe need to rethink what other kind of water filter or if you’re not doing it, go do some research and find out some of the ones that’s best for you because again like what I said we’re not the only company that does this but we’re the ones that do it, obviously a greater extent, um, and again we’re decently in our opinion very affordable, easy to work with, um, independently tested and certified. So, I can, I, I see it’s kind of a no-brainer but it really starts with in an individual saying, you know what let me think about that, let me see what, what is my fridge filter is doing or is it doing
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. Yep. That makes sense. That’s good. I like that. So, we hit the fluoride right and get a big one, we hit a lot of the viruses and bacteria stuff and then we hit a lot of the plastic compounds we can put, like phthalates in that category, we have to put microplastics in that category.
Israel Passwater: I’m trying to think of any, like the top offenders too, like for people but again you know, fluorides usually where people like or in heavy metals or where people start you know like..
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Pharmaceutical drugs, right?
Israel Passwater: Pharmaceutical drugs, radiological elements, obviously, that’s one that we do too but I mean it really just depends on like everyone has a different you know top of their pyramid, they also have a different fear points here so they like whatever is most fearful of them or what’s most recent as far as exposure or you know, you know whatever that is again, we can service of those needs you know so and occasionally someone will say, well what about this and go well if we’re not certified to remove it we won’t claim it because we don’t know.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, that makes sense.
Israel Passwater: And it’s also too very costly and very timely to do this, so it’s not like we can’t just run down the street and have it done, it’s like no we have to have it send out and it cost thousands of dollars and so we’re very intentional about the ones we test for, um.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. Yep. That makes sense. And so just kind of the big five, right, we have pesticides-herbicides, we have fluoride, we have chlorine, we have pharmaceutical drugs, right and we have a lot of the you know, heavy metal here as well too, mercury, lead. These are important right, a lot of pipes used to be lead, I mean there’s a reason why, um, plumbers are called plumbers, I think, what is it the periodic table for, uh, lead, I think it’s plumbum is, is lead, right? How, that’s I think Latin for Lead is like plumbum the, in the periodic table of elements Pb which stands for plumbum and that’s what plumbers got their name from because plumbers dealt with pipes that were literally lead so lead pipes and plumbers were kind of synonymous, so it makes sense there may be still old piping out there in certain areas so you want to make sure you’re pulling the lead out, pulling any mercury out, pulling any, uh, compounds out that could be problematic. So heavy metals, pesticides, plastic compounds, uh, then we would have a lot of our pesticides and then chlorine fluoride. So those would be our top five here today. Anything else you want to talk about regarding other problematic compounds we didn’t dive in deep enough on?
Israel Passwater: No, I, I think I would just encourage everyone there’s a fun open-source tool they call the environmental working group that’s the EWG. They actually have a database where you can pull up your zip code. So, you can punch in like mine’s 19694 so you know where I live now, but it’ll pop up but hey here’s the, the compounds that we found in your lab testing. Yeah, here we go, perfect.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, here’s mine. This Austin, right here. This is Travis country, so you can look here, we see,
Israel Passwater: Like, well, let’s see, like oh, there you go, yeah and again and also too I wanted to mention that a lot of these substances are regulated by the EPA, so they say well, you know, the EPA is there to protect us and they are but again a lot of these things aren’t regulated or if it’s regulated it’s not to a healthy extent because you shouldn’t be like chlorine, you shouldn’t be ingesting chlorine but it is regulated so
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right, and then if we go here. Let me go pull this back up, right and we look at some of the testing, so we so in my area, I think the big one we saw was a lot of bromines, so there’s bromo, your bromochloroacetic acid, that would filter that out and we, I think we saw a bunch, um, you look at what else we saw there, the chloroform, so that that’d be that’d be your chlorine, right?
Israel Passwater: Right. Correct.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Over there.
Israel Passwater: And that’s the kind of the fun part is because you can thumb through and our goal is to be as transparent as we can, you know, so like I said, if there’s something we haven’t tested for, we just said, you know what we haven’t done that, we’ll put on a list, you know, and were constantly building a list and we’re constantly retesting you know, like I said we retested our pitcher, uh, this year and we’ll be doing the same thing with our inline filters but again, everything were certified to do, is like what we have proof of you know and it’s like yeah
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Here’s your chloramine and here’s your, uh, your chloride. So, it’s then you can kind of go in there and say, okay cool like at least have some coverage, um, for some of these issues, so that’s good and high levels of chromium too.
Israel Passwater: And yeah, I just want to mention, so this information is getting pulled from the universal database, so EWG just proved like, compiles all the data and then kind of google and then it kind of presents it in a very, uh, I think eye-opening way, um, so one of the cool parts is that you say well if you don’t believe me that your water supply is there’s probably something to be worried about, go here and then they’re a non-profit, we have no, we don’t paid by them or anything like that. So again, I like to show that is kind of like for someone who maybe new on that journey, um, towards, if either finding us or finding something else, say you should do something because you should consider this and that’s usually like, oh my gosh, I can’t believe that.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That makes sense. That’s great. I want to just compare the technology to like you know your general breeder. I’m on your site here right. Where’s the best way to go see that, I know that you have like a comparison on here. Is it a featured pitcher? Is that right side?
Israel Passwater: Uh, yeah. The comparison I’m trying to think about the comparison, it already should, I should know this.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I went, I went through here earlier and I saw it and I thought it was really good. So, I’m gonna, I’m gonna put her around here as we, as we’re chatting to see if I can pull it up here.
Israel Passwater: And I’m trying to think, I, we have like a blog session, a session section, excuse me, that like really showcases, like, some interesting articles like us versus Brita versus Aquatru, us or Insert brands. Again, like I said we’re not the only people that do water filters but again kind of goes through like, how we’re..
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Here it is. Right here. I got it right here. So, there’s, you know, you clearly filtered standard carbon, zero water, so let’s just kind of go through the big thing here. So the big one is obviously fluoride, microplastics, lead, a lot of the, um, the I think these are volatile organic compounds, right here. So, we’re really filtering a lot out so most are going to do pretty good. In regards to what’s probably more lead and then what else. Let’s, let’s use the easiest one, one of the easier ones to test for too and you know if you have any carbon block filter of any type, it should remove some percentage of that. So again, we never want to just like, to discourage other brands, that’s never my thing, it’s like hey whatever you are, you’re using even a Brita filter for example because they’re the most know brand because they’re been around the longest and they’ve had the most like a said the most marketing budget for longest time but again, it’s going better than drinking tap water, so it’s definitely better amount of good so that, which is a good thing you know so it’s like you know, hey well, you start here and then you move here and move up, you know, but uh, I think too, one of the things that keep in mind too is like, uh, when you’re looking at comparing like, brand A to brand B to brand C. You got ask yourself, you know, three main questions: how is it tested, is it tested, those are two parts and then to what degree, who’s testing it and then also to the other part is how long does it last, you know how easy is it to work with, you know, is it made domestically or is it made overseas that’s the one thing to consider, um. Again, all very important questions to consider when you’re looking at but I think the biggest thing is transparency because there’s a lot of non-transparent, uh, practices and a lot of unregulated. So, we try to be as up like I said as upfront as we can about with people and I think they appreciate that, you know, I do.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s good. That’s good. Let’s talk about kind of what like the technology. So, if someone’s researching a brand, someone’s saying I want really investigate a water filter and what makes a water filter great and they want to look at different brands what should they be looking at. So, let’s kind of compare and contrast using the technology you have, how would you know, you’re dealing with good tech? Let’s just kind of contrast what you have and how people should be educated on this.
Israel Passwater: Yeah. Yeah. Great question.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, I’ll put the screen back up here so you can, you can kind of use that as a guide to walk through it.
Israel Passwater: Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. That’s fine. So again, our technology, it’s, it’s our own technology. It’s affinity technology, we’ve spent tens of thousands of dollars in multiple years coming up with the filter, uh, yeah, so we actually ever realized what was made up. Well, we don’t disclose the ingredients list but again we’re not using activated charcoal or bone char or anything that’s going to be problematic so it’s all, it’s all up and up and obviously if we’re tested so we need to update that graph, by the way sorry, um, you’re constantly finding things but yeah again the technology basically the way this simple elevator answer is your water supply or your water, uh, your water supply is polluted, we have a technology to remove it. Takes out all the bad stuff, the toxins, the chemical, the PFAS, the lead, uh, the VOCs, and retains the nutrients in the water so that. that’s the secret. So, a lot of times even when you look at like an RO system, RO systems aren’t inherently bad they pull everything out of the water and then a lot of that they added back in the salts and stuff like that. But the cool thing is like, with our filters is that we have the ability to remove all the toxins, so our filters are smart they’d be able to discriminate between filter or sorry between water, uh, nutrients and then toxin. So, that’s really where people go wow, that’s pretty cool and it is. It’s awesome. Like, I said, we put a lot time and energy into that, our design team is constantly working on ways to innovate, uh, we have some new things coming out that I can’t quite share yet but, um, things that I think will be really well received and making a little bit easier for our customers. But the big thing is, we know how to remove the bad stuff keep the good stuff in and the other stuff too, oh yeah, like I was saying, like with the RO systems, uh, they’re about 75% less water efficient, so for every clean gallon of water, it makes, it wastes three and a half gallons. So, for us, we don’t do that. So, we’re also eco-friendly, um, again all of our stuff like you see, our testing data is fantastic. Uh, it’s independently third-party test and lasts a long time. So again, we see it as like a slammed up for the right person who’s obviously open to that, um, but again when we’re looking at different types of filters, you know, yeah like I was mentioning, like our pitcher filter, it takes you know, 10 mins to fill the reservoir. Well, it’s doing its job. So sometimes fast is not a good thing. So
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly! I love the, the water pitcher because one, it’s not expensive at all, especially when we know how important water is to our health. This is like, it’s just about prioritizing our health and knowing that 70% of your body is water and making sure it’s clean, right? You’re literally swimming in your water and if it’s clean then that’s great, if it’s toxic then it’s poisoning us, that’s a problem, and some people are in apartments and they’re traveling they haven’t the ability, so I love the ability to bring it with you and just put it in your fridge. So, I like this as a great option here. Can we talk so like, talk to me about the technology, so we have phase 1. There’s some kind of a medium, it’s flowing through like other brands are using charcoal or bone char. You have your kind of medium that’s a non-toxic medium that it’s, it’s moving through and then what’s, what’s there after that, like what’s the next step? So, there’s some kind of a filtration medium. What’s the next level up after that?
Israel Passwater: As far, as far as our filter or other yes
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Yeah. Well, it’s just for yours and then in general. What would other people have?
Israel Passwater: Yeah, I mean, it’s again, think of layers, so it’s like, you think of like a layer cake, it’s just.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So just, I got the image up so we have like a woven mask, some people would have the charcoal with a bone char because that’s kind of step one, right?
Israel Passwater: Yeah. And then go to step 2, you can scroll through and then
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, then you have your coconut carbon
Israel Passwater: all right and then you go to step 3 and then combine the shell, kind of like holds it together and stuff like that. So again, it’s again, even if we gave you the ingredients list like coke for example, like no they, they keep that under lock and key, what’s the secret, you know recipe for coke, we know right, right part of the sugar, part of this diet, the other thing but again we can give you the ingredients list but the way it’s put together that’s really what comes together. So again, not the first people that come up with the idea like this but again we have the best one. So, uh, but again think of like a meshed layer that can woven together and again it’s how it’s put together and what stage and how it’s composite in and what not. I can’t say much more than that but again, that’s right
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, so most people are just primarily having this stage 2, right? It’s a kind of stage 2 thing or
Israel Passwater: Yeah. Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You kind of have your pattern on page one.
Israel Passwater: Yeah. Right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: With your mesh and then you have the stage 2 and then you obviously your stage 3 compartmentalized at all. That makes sense.
Israel Passwater: Most part, you’re not gonna take them apart inside like how is this put together it’s more like how fast is it doing, is it doing it and does the water taste good, again that’s just literally like the way I would have looked at it before, we started clearly filtering like, oh, okay, it goes, it’s going through, it’s not leaking, it’s not gonna leak into the reservoir. Okay great. Awesome. But again, stage 2 up for like a coconut carbon, it’s just like a block of, it’s gonna remove some stuff. That’s better.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And then we have all of our test results so we kind of know what it’s doing, that’s good. I like it. I think it’s great. If you guys wanna, if you guys enjoy the information and you wanna have an additional level to clean your water, justinhealth.com/clearly-filter. We’ll put the link down below, um, we’re just trying to provide a lot of education for everyone because, you know, I see a big gap in this field is, I recommend a lot of under the counter whole house systems but there’s a lot of people that, that can’t do that so this is a kind of a better mousetrap in that way, um, and we know water is so important. Anything else that, you know, Israel, that we talked about today, we didn’t go deep enough in, that you wanna highlight?
Israel Passwater: Yeah, no, I, I think one of the things too where we play really well is like you’re saying like on the go for people living in apartments and stuff like that. I think for, you know, just a skim, even when you’re traveling that’s why you’re getting more bottles you’ve got to wear filtered bottles which are kind of cool.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, you got a bottle too? See a filtered bottle that you can bring with you to. That’s great.
Israel Passwater: Which is good because like you know, my wife and I, we went to Hawaii for work, uh, a couple of about a month and a half ago and it’s like we brought our bottles and I actually brought a pitcher because I go, I want that convenience it actually fits into the refrigerator for like you know a Hawaii size you know, uh, refrigerator. So, I was like, that’s pretty cool, so you know again, we played really well for, for we offered the service then obviously you know great technology, great customer service, um, again, transparent, easy to use, easy to work with and again you know that’s really why I think kind of fun part about us, helping people live healthier lives is that where it, it’s easy to do so
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s cool, so you got a portable bottle as well with that same mesh and activated charcoal technology that still filters out a lot of that while almost all the fluoride, all the chlorin, heavy metals, so it still has similar benefits as the actual. That’s great. Wow.
Israel Passwater: Yeah and most people like because they think like okay well I’ll have to fill up, you know, they have refilling stations at your gym, there’s nothing wrong with that but again they’re they have a filter on it but we’ll kind of filter it well, I don’t really know exactly and that’s where you think, well, you don’t have to worry about that it’s like or if you’re going to the airport now, that people are traveling now, hope it’s kind of helpfully winding down, you know, it’s like yeah and now that people are back to going they’re really focused on that, so that’s something that you think from an economic standpoint and typically, uh, I believe the stat was most people are spending about 1200$ a year in bottled water so you gotta Costco get the coarse blend, you know, 24, 36, and 48 packs, that’s a lot of money savings too so again if it’s money if it’s you know obviously chemical reduction, uh, indigestion, that’s, uh, something that we can definitely help with, you know.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s really good. Well in general, I think really important the solution to pollution is dilution. So you wanna have good clean water. Your cells need to regulate temperature, to pull toxicity out, run to help run our kidney, so really important to make sure kind of as a foundational right, clean food, clean water, good sleep, good movement, these are essentials to being healthy, so here’s another great product that I recommend, that recommend for patients and use myself that I think people would benefit from. Anything else, Israel, you wanna leave the listeners with?
Israel Passwater: Yeah, no, I think the biggest thing is like, you know, where if, if they’re interested in, you wanna choose, that make sure you did your research like do your homework and that’s with anything if you talk about supplements, uh, anything again, we read you know the back of packages, you know what I’m eating, so the same thing goes with like water filter so if it’s just us or somebody else, do your homework. Make sure you’re getting into, uh, I think that and we will shine after that but, uh, I think I really, it’s more just like I just again always encourage people to do their homework, think for themselves, question everything and that’s really important because again there’s a lot of misinformation out there or lack of transparency, um, so that’s kind of one of the downsides to our industry. It’s not very straightforward and so you really, really dig into the weeds there and again we’re busy too, I mean I work full time, my work works full-time, you’ve got a life, you’re trying to work out be healthy, you know, all those things but again, if you’re gonna invest in yourself, you can definitely want to make sure, you know, what you’re doing, you know, so if that goes with anything we’re not the whole piece of the pie but we are one piece of that, that’s overlooked like. I said, you know.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, yeah. A lot of people that already are using a simply, you know using a filter already and it’s just we’re gonna exchange it out for something better that’s gonna clean the water better and then also I always tell patients, I’m not worried about stripping minerals out, they’re always, they’re already good supplements out there, where you can pinch a little bit of minerals back in. It’s easy to re-mineralize, it’s harder to pull out toxins.
Israel Passwater: Correct, yeah, correct. And remember, yeah like I said it’s a lot easier to do that than the opposite, you know, so that’s why obviously, we’re around and that’s why it’s something, the way I think it’s like, it’s one less thing to worry about, um, so if you worry about stuff being a parent, you know, being a healthy or not then you know, this gives you. One less thing, you know, have to consider, you know, if it’s at home on the go so.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Anytime you can set like your health habits on automatic, like okay I’m just plugging this in and then I’m just gonna continue with my routine and then now, I have a higher quality food or higher quality water, you get the benefit, right? The more we can set these habits on unconscious competence where it’s just automatic, it’s always better. I love that.
Israel Passwater: Yeah yeah and then one thing on the automatic too that, we’re talking about easy to work with, again, we have a subscription service so again, we ship domestically for free, uh, for anyone on our, uh, subscription and, uh, basically, the cool thing we need to talk about like not having a room with things I forget everything, you know, so I have to have everything written down or a calendar reminder, uh, but the cool part is you know, we can put it on auto ship so if you want one every two, three, four, five, six months, you control them, so the cool part is like that ability to be able to choose not to have to think about it or if you need to push it back, they can do that so again, we make it super easy for you, um, again, we have really great customer service team and we take good care of everybody, so I think again, that’s one less thing that I have to worry about, you know, imagine like, you know you have that with entire rotation, somebody automatically does that for, you instead of having to go down, the entire shop, get the oil change and entire rotation so we want to make it easy on you, you know but, um, that’s also powerful to know that you have full control of that too, so
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very good. Anything else, Israel, you wanna leave enlisted with?
Israel Passwater: No, I just thank you for your time. I’m really, I’m excited, I’m glad I get to be part of your audience and uh and here with you guys today and if they have questions, um, I don’t know if you want to funnel through you to me but they can, I can give you all my contact info, you can share that later too. I’m happy to give a resource to you, if I can and yeah
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Any questions you guys, put them in the comments that’d be awesome. You can always come back around on the youtube video and respond back and if you guys enjoy, I’m always trying to hunt down good products and this is definitely one we can add to that list. Everyone and then justinhealth.com/clearly-filtered and I’ll put the link down below. If you’re driving just go down below, first link, click it and you’re good. All right, Israel, phenomenal chatting with you, thanks for dropping all these knowledge bombs and have a phenomenal day.
Israel Passwater: Thanks Justin, good to see you man.
Natural Strategies to Detoxify Glyphosate or Round Up | Podcast #345
Several studies demonstrate that exposure to glyphosate to humans (and mammals) can cause serious chronic health problems. Also, exposure to glyphosate usually manifests slowly over time and results in apparent dysfunctions in biological systems.
According to Dr. J and Evan, several recent studies claim that glyphosate accumulates in the bones, intestine, spleen, liver, muscle, and kidney. And because glyphosate is so prevalent, it will be essential to incorporate foods into your diet that help your body detoxify. It may entail making lifestyle choices that you can and are willing to do daily for the long term.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani
In this episode, we cover:
6:04: What does glyphosate do?
10:37: The benefits of organic foods, air filters, and water filters
15:17: Glutathione and Collagen
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And we are Live! It’s Dr. J here in the house with Evan Brand. Today we’re gonna be chatting about natural strategies to help detoxify round ups or glyphosate. Really excited to be chatting with Evan today. Evan, how are you doing today man?
Evan Brand: Doing really well! This is a super important topic.You sea many many lawsuit around the country happen and bayer who bought monsato. They’re really trying to get out of it. I’ve seen several, I’m no law expert but I’ve seen several stories how basically they’re trying to just, throw one lump sum out there for all the cases, as there are thousand and thousand of cases coming at them, because of different cancers like non-hodgkin’s lymphoma that people are claiming that has been linked to their glyphosate exposure. Whether it was like the school grounds worker who was a famous story or other people. They’re really coming at them hard and they’re really really trying to weasel this way out of it and then I saw news just uh, last week actually, that glyphosate is actually going to be phased. I don’t know if you saw this but it said it’s going to be phased out by 2023. So I sent this new article over to Stephanie Synep who I’ve interviewed several times about glyphosate, and she goes “yeah, I saw this. They’re probably just going to come out with another slightly different molecule that’s just as toxic”. So she didn’t think it was that exciting news.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting! Yeah, I mean, I wouldn’t be surprised. It’s kind of like a lot of the medication they have many me’s for it right. Something they can re-patent, um, almost the same molecular structure so they know it’s going to work based on the previous medication or compound but they don’t really have to do too much RND on it because, it’s so close to where it was. So yeah, I get that maybe, probably, the same toxicity profile too. So that makes sense, hopefully that’s not going to be the case but either way, we have a lot of toxins in our environment and roundup’s just one that we have a lot of other pesticides, herbicides, or genocides that are out there. Obviously, a lot of potential chemicals in the water, air, and so roundup or we can kind of put roundup of pesticides – all in the same category, I think that’s pretty fair . So you know first thing is, try to mitigate the use of them on your property, I mean, I use a little bit of pesticides in a spot treating, man. Are we trying to avoid anything blanketed or anything just, you know, blanketed across the board, and you know, we don’t really play out in the grass that much, I mean so if your kids are rolling around out in the grass definitely pay extra money and have those weeds picked up by hand. I think that’s a better way to do it but every now and then, there may be a necessity to spot treat stuff but do your best to avoid that especially if your kids are playing near glass like that, or just have a grass in your yard that you know, this is the play area this where the kids go. We put a nice little rock pit in our backyard just because we know that the rock pit’s going to be perfect right? Put some like, soft help you know, small pebbles in there, um, that are you, um, still fun to play in and they have a digger pit and all that so just try to do your best if you have kids that are young that are playing; mitigate any playing on areas that have any pesticides at all; try to mitigate the use of them, 100 percent and try to have safe, safe spaces in your yard that, you know are perfectly clean.
Evan Brand: There is an alternative to roundup. I’m trying to figure out what it was the moms across America did and article on it-I’m trying to fin it here-it was like a non-toxic weed control. I don’t care about weeds; my grass looks cool and it’s got clover. We’ve got many other different species of plants besides just grass. I mean, I think it’s a myth and it’s dumb you have all these neighborhoods where they think you got to have the grass looking perfect, and grass is just like another version of monoculture. It’s like if you go and walk through my yard, you’re going to see so many different types of plants so I just don’t care. I think people have been brainwashed by the mainstream industry. Even our neighbor we’ve seen you know just out in flip-flops, spraying the glyphosate on their weeds. It’s like who said dandelions are bad? Like, that’s the first food for bee so for me, I’d rather see the field full of dandelions. I guess it’s personal preference but I kind of like it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. It just depends. You know, the biggest problem with weeds in relationship to grass as they grow like, three times the speed, so if you haven’t cut your lawn for a week your grass in this long and your weeds are this long, right? So you missed the nice homogeneous, kind of, clean lawn. I’m a big long guy, I like a nice, clean, homogeneous lawn so I’ll walk out there, you know, halfway through the week if I see any weeds popping up; it’s easy because they grow twice the speed, it’s grass, and I’ll just go and take five minutes, and I’ll just pull my hand. You know, I’m like I like a really nice pretty front lawn. So I’ll go there spend 5-10 minutes a week walking around, pulling by hand, just to mitigate the chemical usage but. First thing is, decrease the chemical usage, decrease the chemical dependency out of the gates. I guess that’s the easiest first step.
Evan Brand: So here’s one. So it’s called, there’s one called Dr. Kirchner natural grass and weed killer. I’m gonna to try to look it up, see what the ingredients. There’s another one, another competitor to it called, Green Gobler. And that’s a 20% vinegar weeding grass killer. And this thing’s got crazy high reviews of it. This Dr. Kirchner k-I-r-c-h-n-e-r natural weed killer . This is just, so it’s four percent sodium chloride, interesting. And they say this ocean water-based product is made for non-selective control of broad-leaf weeds and wheat grasses results in hours. So there you go, I mean it sounds like they’re just using like, concentrated ocean water, they’ve got thousands of five-star reviews on people, people on Amazon are posting their reviews of them in their garden after spraying this stuff and it literally kills it all. This lady said here that it’s magical and safe. So there you go!
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So we’ll have to put some links down below. So you have what, so what are those two products? Those ones that was an apple cider vinegar-based, what else?
Evan Brand: Yeah, and then you got this other one that’s salt water, it’s literally like, four percent ocean water concentrate, and then you have another one called, Natural Armor which is a 30 percent vinegar concentrate.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay.
Evan Brand: My wife even saw one at Target recently. She saw like an organic herbicide. I had a picture of it, I don’t know if I could find it on my phone or not but, she sent me a picture the other day. She said there’s no excuse for people using glyphosate; I said I know, I know, and then she sent me that picture-let me see if I can find it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Good. That’s good. I mean glyphosate, what is does is, it it basically is a chelator, it pulls away all the minerals from the soil, and so it decreases the minerals getting up into the plant which then kill it. And so, if you’re using it even worse on food you’re eating, It’s it’s way worse. Because now you’re destroying the quality of the topsoil, you’re destroying the minerals in that soil, and we know that soil requires minerals so that plant can, um, let’s just say express it you know, express it’s full nutritional potential if you will. So if we have nutritionally deficient soil, like manganese for instance, you know, vegetables are going to have less vitamin C in it, right? So we know the minerals have a major role and they and the quality of that soil, plays a major role in the kind of nutrientsthat plants will produce. So you’re gonna have less nutrition in soil where there’s a bunch of roundup that’s chelated out a lot of those minerals.
Evan Brand: Yeah. I was gonna say, let’s hit on the mechanism . So that’s definitely a big important one, and then the other one that you and I test for in the gut is, we’re seeing the glyphosates damaging the beneficial bacteria in the gut. And this is happening at even PBB – parts per billion levels. So once you kill off the beneficial bacteria in the gut, now you see the overgrowth of clostridium, and there’s a famous chart-I know you’ve seen it before and hopefully others have seen it. But you could just look it up, type in glyphosate autism chart, and you can see the correlation where glyphosate skyrockets along with autism rates, and I’ve seen many many autistic children and we test their glyphosate levels and they’re always high. So, this is not saying causation, but this is in correlation; and William Shaw, Bill Shaw-he’s a guy at great plains lab that we, that we use for these toxic chemical tests. You know, he wrote a great paper on this. He had a paper published about the mechanism . Essentially, it was like an order of operations. It was the glyphosate, as you mentioned, will cause nutrient deficiencies but then damages good bacteria. Bad bacteria like clostridium overgrowth. Now you’ve got these organic acids that go high which mess up an enzyme that breaks down dopamine, now you’ve got excessive dopamine, now you’ve got brain toxicity and the you damage the mitochondria. So it’s a long, a long route there but, this is directly damaging mitochondria which is certainly linked to chronic fatigue and other issues so, when we’re looking at someone’s picture of health, and we see they’ve got a major overload of pesticides, and they’re fatigued, we’re not gonna say, “Hey! This is you number one smoking gun of fatigue” but, it’s certainly a big peace of the puzzle; and I can tell you personally but also clinically when we use nutrients which we’ll get into to detox these pesticides-we see that energy levels go up; and you mentioned exposure, so also, you got to consider where you live too. So even if you’re having Joe Bob next door spray, that might not be as big of a deal as more agricultural areas which is you know, partially where I am which I don’t like. There’s a corn and soybean around here. This is just part of the country where I, where this happens and there’s papers on even one mile of pesticide drift. So the question is…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Far more worried about you because, just the load, you know, if you look at the, just the load coming through.
Evan Brand: Oh, yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh, and your area is just got to be, you know, orders of magnitude. 10, 100x more than just a general uh, you know, residential person that’s just trying to knock down weeds a little bit.
Evan Brand: Totally. Which, which we’re aware of. We’re working on it and we’ve got, we’ve got an exit, so we’re working on it but, yeah. Luckily, we’ve been doing a lot of things. Are you ready to talk about some of the solutions? Obviously, avoidance, external exposure, trying to stay away from it, watching out for like, playgrounds. You know, a lot of playgrounds, they’re too lazy to pull the weeds so they’re just going to spray it so you’ll see often signs at playgrounds like, “watch out!”, and you can tell that they’ve sprayed on the mulch where the kids are playing, and then you may say, “Well, oh! We’ll just go to a rubber playground”, where you have all those chopped up tires but, those are really toxic too. We mentioned those rubber chemicals on the chemical profile for children too. I had a child, a young child actually, was a client who was diagnosed with a rare type of cancer, and we looked at the levels of 1-3 butadiene and maybe some other chemicals; and these are all from synthetic rubber, and this kid was like a stup, a superstar soccer player. He was playing indoors, like 24/7. This kid was these fake rubber mats and his levels were like a hundred x higher than 95th percentile and that was a known carcinogen so we can’t say the rubber caused it but, man, it was certainly a big smoking gun in this case.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: What’s the chemical name?
Evan Brand: It’s so, it’s 1-3 butadiene. It’s on the great plains chemical report. It just says using the production. Yeah, just as used in the production of synthetic rubber.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. So it’s definitely possible, right? So, I mean, out of the gates, the first thing is, we look at our food. Right? First this is make sure you food’s organic because you’re going to have major exposure if you’re taking things in, internally. Right? Things on the outside of the world like yeah, if you’re touching it, right? That’s going to be a problem so one try not to use it at your property or if you do you know, like you know, we try to use it more like glyphosate but kind of more natural version in the front yard spot treated. But in the backyard or in the play any area where we know that kids actually play. Like that’s just going to be off-limits. We try to make sure it’s super clean and good there; and then number two is um, you know, air is going to move all this stuff around. So even if you know you yard’s clean, your neighbors may not be clean. So you got to make sure air filtration in your home is dialed in so you can mitigate it potentially being in the home and breathing it in constantly. So air filters in the home, water filer because there’s also the worry about it getting off into the water table, and if we have a well or anything else, very concerning so you want to make sure good quality water filtration and then like I mentioned earlier-organic food and try to mitigate it’s usage around your property, or try to choose natural sources.
Evan Brand: Yeah. I’m glad you mentioned the water too because that’s important. Believe it or not, even glyphosate’s being found in rain water which is crazy. It’s literally raining down glyohosate because it’s evaporating from various farms and agricultural than it’s moving through the wind currents and then getting rained down on people, and you may say, “Oh well, that’s got to be such a trace amount it doesn’t matter. Well that’s the thing, we’re finding that these, these compounds are active against the beneficial bacteria in your gut at these per billion levels. So you really can’t brush it off. People will try to brush it off but, it’s the small levels, and it’s the synergistic effects, right? So you’ve got a little bot of that and then you’ve got it from your diet. Plus you’ve got it from your water supply, plus you’re getting rained on in your organic garden. This adds up overtime and you and I see bacterial overgrowth everyday, all day; and we know that this is certainly linked to the disruption of the gut-these chemicals. So it’s too important to ignore the air filters is a tough one. I asked Stephanie Synep about that I said, “Hey! What is the actual size of glyphosate? I can’t find it. I’m trying to figure out because you’ll see air purifiers talk about a one micron or a three micron filtration, and she said “Oh, no. There’s no way you’ll be able to filter it. It’s too small so that’s what she said bit, I can’t find anything about the size of it. I’ve asked a couple of companies about is and they say, “Oh, yeah. NO problem. Our air filter will take care of it”, and another company said, “Oh, yeah. Our air filter should destroy the molecule” but, I don’t know how you would yest that. You’d have to like, I don’t know; Have somebody spray a bottle of glyphosate into a room and then run the purifier and see what happens but, it’s removed so many other things that it’s a non-negotiable us, and I know you do the same like, air purifier…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. It’s moving a lot. I mean, you know, we like the Austin Air just because they have the 30 pounds of activated charcoal and zeolite, and those binders, you know, would have a positive effects, binding up these things and so it’s definitely going to decrease the load for sure. If it’s blowing through a hepa filter and also through the 30 pounds of zeolite and activated charcoal. It’s going to have mitigating effects. It’s going to be better off, you know, on when it’s out than, than before, right? So I think it’s still a good thing to have to what degree, um, I don’t know but, in general, it’s good to have, of course the water is a big one. So I try to have all my water that I drink personally-reverse osmosis, so we have a whole house filter that’s carbon-based that filter a lot, and then I have a under the counter filter where I drink my water, and like you know, make smoothies from, or make my coffee from, or use for cooking like that’s all RO. And so we have a little mineral support supplement that will add minerals back in. Because the biggest problem with RO water is the depletion of minerals but, um, I’d rather always have the water cleaner and then add minerals back. It’s always easier to add minerals back than take toxins out.
Evan Brand: Right. Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Always easier.
Evan Brand: For sure, for sure. I mean, yeah…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So like, Oh my God! The minerals In the water. There’s no minerals. Like yeah, but there’s no toxins are way less, so now I’m okay with way less toxins and just being able to add a good trace mineral support back into the water.
Evan Brand: Yep! Yeah, and people…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And you can do like, a redmond. You can do like a redmon’s real salt, you could trace mineral support with some extra potassium and magnesium-all that’s fine.
Evan Brand: I’ll do some of the sea water too. Like some of the sea water like, quinton and there’s a couple other professional brands we use of sea water, that stuff. I tell you, I was kind of skeptical. I’m like how is adding like, basically salt water going to help me bit, it sure did. I mean, it definitely is like a thirst quencher. So it’s pretty remarkable the difference.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, yourself, your cells need uh, they run on a sodium-potassium pump. There’s this gradient of minerals on wither side of the cell. I think it’s what sodium, sodium is on the outside, potassium’s in. It does a little switcheroo. Sodium goes in, potassium goes out, and you need that gradient to happen for the cells to communicate properly. So it you’re low in sodium or potassium, that sodium potassium pump is not going to work optimally.
Evan Brand: you can feel it. I’m telling you. It’s, it’s significant. All right. Let’s hit on some of like, the detox strategies if you’re ready. I think the easy one…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So the first thing is all the lifestyle stuff. That’s foundationthat we stack up. So easiest thing out of the gate is going to be glutathione. So glutathione, whether it’s s acetyl, lyposomal, reduce, whether we do, whether we’re making it with all the precursors like, NAC, ALA, glycine, collagen, right? All these things are going to be really important to help make your master antioxidant out of the gates-that’s probably the big one first.
Evan Brand: Yeah, glycine’s huge, and there’s actually some papers just on glycine by itself in isolation helping with glyphosate which is awesome. So I actually take glycine before bed. It really helps sleep too. So that’s another cool benefit but…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, you can mix collagen, peptides, like I use my TrueCollagen with a little bit of magnesium powder before bed. That knocks it right out and glycine’s helpful with other toxins like strippers like xylene and things like that. It will, it will detoxify xylene-thses kind of chemicals too. So glycine is excellent, and then of course um, you know, roundup’s very destructive on the gut and so if you’re doing glycine, it’s very helpful to kind of heal the enterocytes and repair those too.
Evan Brand: Yeah. I would say probiotics are somewhere on the list now. I don’t know in terms of priority and the mechanism is the same as it is for mycotoxins. There’s some cool research coming out about probiotics actually being able to convert toxins into less toxic forms, and then that makes them more water-soluble, and able to excreted from the body. So there’s some cool mechanism involved with probiotics and of course, if you’re working with a practitioner like us, we’re going to coach you through when and how, and what we’re going to use. But that another cool piece of the puzzle. I’d say my next one is going to be micronized chlorella. There’s a couple professional that we use of it, and this is better than the broken cell wall chlorella because, it’s smaller molecules, and then that’s going to allow better transfer across the blood-brain barrier to get some of these heavy metals out. So we’ll actually use some products that are basically designed for heavy metals but, we’ll use them off-label for like mold and chemical detox.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and so like I have a heavy meal clear product that has some of the, some of the chlorella in there. It also has some of the sodium alginate, and then also some of the modified citrus pectin. These are really good binders that will help with metals and they’ll also help with uh, pesticides too which are great, and then, um, some of the research you’re talking about probiotics actually converting some of the mole toxins and also, they also have an effect binding them too. It’s that what you’re saying too?
Evan Brand: Yeah. I know it’s a conversion. I don’t know if it’s actually binding but, there’s a lot of like great planes they’re doing a lot of work on like promoting the idea of probiotics being like the universal mold detoxifier now – even better higher rated that charcoal for example, which is crazy.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s why we always talk about dealing with the gut and working on the gut before we push any crazy detox because we know, the gut’s so important. It’s like a lot of these functional medicine principles are like you know, they’ve tried and true but, if you look at the science, like you find more little nitty-gritty within the science of what’s happening, why that is the case like we just kind of know clinically, you get better results doing it so we kind of go that way, and then we just see more data kind of just supporting that hypothesis.
Evan Brand: It’s cool. Yeah, it’s fun because you and I have been basically using the methods we use for years, and then new stuff comes out that’s like, “Oh, cool!” Well, we were doing that already; now we know that it was actually doing other things that we needed it to do for. It’s like get rid of toxins. So that’s, so that’s awesome. How about sauna too? I mean, sweating has been proven to help excrete so many things. I’ll tell you, you know, I had a lady that was in her 70s. We ran a chemical profile test on her. This lady’s test was so clean, I was almost in disbelief because I’ve seen 5, 6 year-old children that are just off the charts with chemicals, and then we have this lady in her 70’s who you think just lived through all sort of different eras of toxicity. Man, I tell you, her chemical tests were as clean as a whistle. I said, “What are you doing?’, and she was in a sauna three to four times a week for half an hour. I said “Wow!”, I said, ”You are living proof that the sauna works and that sweating is an incredible detox pathway.”
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I see a lot of women, too. Like “Oh, man! I’m pregnant.Like, what’s the best way to detoxify when I’m pregnant?” I’m like, well number one, we don’t want to really push any detoxification. The only thing I may gently recommend is maybe a little bit of a, kind of a natural fiber, eating organic, drinking lots of water, and maybe a little bit of an infrared sauna. But you have to shower right afterwards just because you don’t want to move toxins to the skin, and then have them reabsorb back in. So you want to make sure you use a good 10 sulfur soap, break up that film of toxin on your skin so it flushes off your skin. So would you agree that you know, potentially doing a little bit of sauna therapy as long as you’re not depleting yourself, dehydrated, is probably a safe, probably one of the more safer, gentle ways to detoxify if you are pregnant?
Evan Brand: I guess it depends on temperature. Like I’m not going to put a lady in like, a hundred and eighty, like a hot rock one.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: I think an Infrared one…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It can be infrared were it’s lower temperature.
Evan Brand: Yeah. I think if you’re probably at like a 125 degrees or something. That’s somewhat natural that you could experience on the planet. I think would be no problem; the chlorella should be no problem, too. You know, we’ve actually…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Stays in the gut. It stays in the gut. You’re probably okay, I mean, chlorella, some kind of a gentle, more food-based binder is probably okay. I mean, if you’re gonna do some kind of a sauna and you’re pregnant, one, make sure you’re hydrated, make sure you have minerals. Start with like, three or four, or five minutes, and just kind of add like a minute of two every time so you don’t overdue. I always rather know you go at a lower level where you’re confident- you can handle it, and gently nudge it up, and just make sure you shower right afterwards. It’s probably the only detoxification means that I would really push outside of a gentle binder. Uh, that’s food-based for my pregnant females. Back on that, would you agree?
Evan Brand: I would say, I, I don’t see a problem with charcoal and chlorella during pregnancy because, you have to kind of weigh the pros and the cons, right? And we know that for example, these toxins go through the placenta. We know they go through breast milk, so here you are, willingly letting this toxins go through the unborn baby, when you could simply use a gentle binder to try to mitigate some of that or even detox; that there’s actually been crazy stuff being done behind the scenes. I won’t go into too much details because I don’t think it’s published yet but, showing that these micronized chlorella molecules can literally detox the baby before the baby’s even born. So you can actually have a baby come out cleaner than it would’ve been, chemical wise, by being detoxed throughout the pregnancy by the transfer of the chlorella from mom to baby; and then of course, once the baby’s born, through the breast milk, also there is some transfer of chlorella. So there’s some crazy, crazy stuff coming out on that but, too soon to say exactly.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool. I like that. So, yeah. We have our binders, we like the binders, and again, talk to your, your OB if you’re a person that wants to look into that. When you’re pregnant, just be careful. I always recommend do all this stuff before but, if you waited and you have issues, and you got to do it now, talk to your OB, talk to your functional medicine doc before you ever do that. We typically don’t push any hard detoxification when uh, patients are pregnant just because we’re mobilizing a lot of toxins unless, we do it very very gentle-way like we mentioned before. Uh, outside of that, I would say we talked about all the big binders of water filtration. We’ll put some links down below with some of the RO and whole house activated charcoal, carbon-based filters that I personally use and Evan uses. We’ll put some recommended links that you guys have that. That’s going to be really important. I’d say air, water, organic food-those are going to be big, and then we can set them in on top of that. So uh, in my line I use heavy metal clear, my detox aminos that have calcium gluconate, and all the sulfur aminos, and reduced glutathione. Evan has some similar glutathione, and sulfur, and mineral-based products that are mineral, that are like our binders, like fulvic minerals or things that help bind up some of this things, too. So we’ll put some links down below if you want some recommended products that we personally use, and we’re kind of gave you some of the big mechanism, right? One’s binding, right? You’re binding some of it up, and the other one is you’re working on enhancing your own detoxification pathways, so they can excrete them. And then of course, low-hanging fruit, right? The solution to pollution dilution. You take any toxins, you hydrate well enough, good clean water and minerals, the more you hydrate that mineral, that toxin becomes less potent, the more it’s diluted. So that’s, it’s low hanging fruit. It’s easy to forget but, solution to pollution is dilution.
Evan Brand: Cheers! Yeah, and this is real stuff. I mean, we’ve seen many, many, I mean, hundreds of this point; before and after case studies of measuring these chemicals. It’s absolutely remarkable what can be done. So if you’re just like, “Oh, toxins are bad.”, and that’s all you get from this podcast, no. Remember that goes deeper than this. We’re talking the way you perform in terms of your mitochondreal function, your energy levels, the health of your gut. Whether you have bacterial overgrowth which then leads to bloating, and burping, and gas, and issues with your joints and potential autoimmune issues because now you’ve got chlostridium overgrowth. So if you hear this, all you think is” toxins are bad, I need to detox.”, no. Remember, this goes into every body system. This goes into adrenals, mitochondria, liver, gallbladder; I mean, the whole system is involved so don’t just blow this thing off. I still see people-I won’t name her but, there was a lady I knew from my, my town. Now she’s super big and she’s got a supplement company that’s like all these vitamin shop stores and everywhere, and she did a Q&A, and I mean this lady is a multi-millionaire, and people asked her, “Do you eat organic?”, and she said “No. I think it’s a waste of time.” It’s like you’re just, you’re just, uh, what’s the word? Not dumb, that’s the rude word. Uh…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Ignorant.
Evan Brand: Ignorant. She’s ignorant. Yeah, that’s the word. She doesn’t know what that means. Like how important that truly is and how that’s changing everything from her offspring, and the health of her babies to her own health. So to people out there, if you’ve got the means to do it, which hopefully everyone can, I can see people have that brand new iphones but then they say they don’t have the extra dollar to buy the organic strawberries. You got to make thins thing a priority or you’ll see a brand new Mercedes SUV in the McDonald’s parking lot, like you’ve got to make organic a priority.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Absolutely. So you git to make it a priority. It’s shift that for sure, and again, people’s say organic’s a fad. Well, again, before 1950, everything was organic, right? That’s where the pesticide kind of fertilizer industry came kind of post-World War II, and so, everything was organic before that point. And again, like first thing I recommend in the order of priorities is, make sure your meat are organic and pasture fed first, okay that’s the first order of, um, let’s just say investment. The second thing is, eat from the clean 15-these are pesticides that have, these are foods that have a pesticide load; and then, avoid the dirty dozen. That’s kind of environmental working group thing. So we’ll put a link for the clean and the dirty dozen; and then from there, you can start getting organic vegetables that are frozen; that’s cheaper. And then of course, start to buy them, you know, more fresh and organic across the board but, that’s kind of the progression. So just try to at least start with the meats because the meats hold the most toxins, and so fats are in the toxins. So you want to start with meats first, and then you can work on going to clean 15, avoid dirty dozen, frozen organic, and then full fresh on organic. That’s kind of the algorithm there. Anything you want to say about that Evan?
Evan Brand: Yeah, local too. I mean, if you can get local beef too, where it hadn’t traveled thousands of miles from Brazil, and they didn’t cut down the rain forest to get that grass fed beef, then I would totally do that. I get my meat from 15 minutes down the road. It’s just hundreds, and hundreds of acres of beautiful chemical-free pastures. So I feel really good about it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s great! I love it. Well, very good. So out of the gates here also, one last thing, if you don’t have good gallbladder function, or good digestion, right? You’re constipated, you’re not pooping everyday, you’re having a hard time digesting food, not breaking fat down or protein adequately, your stools are floating, excessive skid marks streaks-those kind of things that means you’re not breaking down fat, you’re not breaking down protein adequately, you’re not moving toxins through your bowels adequately, you’re gonna be reabsorbing that, you’re gonna, you’re not gonna have good gallbladder flow to push that out in the stool. So you’re potentially reabsorbing or not eliminating toxins via your digestive tract. And so if we have digestive issues, we got to have some stool testing, we got to fix whatever is going on from a microbial imbalance or gut infection in the intestines. That’s really important. Got to work on live, gallbladder, and making sure enzymes and acids are adequate to break everything down.
Evan Brand: Yep! Good call. And if you need help, you want to get some of this testing done, investigate your gut, look into your chemical toxicity, you can reach out to Dr. J or myself. This website is justinhealth.com if you need to reach out, it worked worldwide (facetime, phone, skype) any way you need to connect there. So justinhealth.com, and for me Evan, it’s evanbrand.com. We look forward to helping you. Also reach out. We offer intro calls too! You can chat with us and figure out exactly what’s going on, symptom wise, we’ll see if you’re good fit for care, and look forward to helping you out.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. We’re here for you all, guys. Awesome! And if you enjoyed it, thumbs up, comments down below, and um, we’re here! Justinhealth.com, evanbrand.com, and write us a review too! We appreciate it.
What’s in Your Drinking Water | Podcast #317
Safe drinking water is something we tend to take for granted, until a crisis like lead contamination makes us wonder what chemicals could be lurking in our own taps. Here’s Dr. J and Evan to tell us all about these toxins and what we can do to make our water at home more safer.
Water is important for life without it also life is not possible. But nowadays the quality of water is deteriorating and is a matter of concern across the world. Pure water is one of the greatest natural resource in the world. Do you know that metabolic functions of our body depend upon water? Since ancient time civilizations are built around the abundant supplies of water.
Some of these toxins are parasites, pesticides, fluoride, heavy metals, etc. Dr. J and Evan also suggest having filters in your water such as activated charcoal to filter out particles pollutants from your water.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani
In this episode, we cover:
1:13 Toxins from the water
7:56 Health problems from the water toxins
14:35 Reverse osmosis
20:19 Vitamin C with chlorine detox
26:16 Budgeting water filters
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And we are live. It’s Dr. J here in the house with Evan brand. Today we’re going to be talking about toxins in your water, how to filter them out the things that we do personally with our patients and our families to keep ourselves healthy and feeling great, Evan, how are we doing today, man?
Evan Brand: Doing well excited to dive in with you here. Water is something of course, we all need duh. But good, clean water is something that we really need. And in the modern world, it’s very difficult to get that. And this is a new problem for humanity. Not Not Not super new. I mean, thousands of years ago, this issue was still happening when societies were trying to create irrigation systems and sewage was ending up in their water and all of that, but hunter gatherers in general, they didn’t have that problem. They’d go to the creek, the stream, the spring, and everything was fine. But now with urbanization, industrialization, with airplanes, with heavy metals, the water is a lot different these days, you look at plastic chemicals. I mean, where do we even start? So you even just the containers that the water is in even if the water is clean the container it’s in, could be a source of toxins, too. So how do you want to kick this thing off?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. So first off, you know, where are these toxins coming from in the water. So first thing is we use certain chemicals actually cleaning the water, such as chlorine, for instance. And this will obviously decrease things like microbes and bacteria, ecola, maybe even parasites, right. But you still have to deal with the fact that we have organisms in our gut are called our microbiome healthy gut bacteria in our gut. And we know things like chlorine can negatively impact our gut and our immune system, and the healthy gut bacteria. And we know that we have 80% of our immune system in the stomach in the small intestine, the gulf in the malt. So if we impact that bacteria, it’s going to have a big effect on our immune system. So in general, chlorine is one of those things that may have a benefit, cleaning the water a bit, but we want to be able to get it out. And then we also have things like fluoride, which may have a reasonable intention off the bat of topically helping our teeth be stronger. But just because it has a topical benefit doesn’t mean we necessarily want to put it in our water, that word has an internal benefit. It’s like saying, well, sunscreen may help you from getting a sunburn, therefore put it in the water. It’s like well, topical topical data, but it’s not really used internally, right? So it’s kind of the same thing. And also fluoride is is considered to be like a drug. So if you get put it in your someone’s water, you can’t really regulate the dose that someone would get that some people may drink twice as much water as the next person. So you’re not really regulating the dose on that. So fluoride and chlorine are going to be a big one out of the gates, number one. And then you have may even have things like pesticide runoff from farmland, GMO runoff from farmland, right? You may have parasite runoff from whatever happening in the lakes in the streams, and you want to be able to have means to be able to get those things filtered out.
Evan Brand: Yep, good points, good points. And you know, what we have is truly a first world problem meaning people in second and third world countries, they may have other issues with their water. So this is not just a problem in America, in developed countries. You know, there are water quality problems worldwide, we just happen to have a different problem. So we’ve done a good job at really helping with like the Giardia, and the coal lies in the crypto and that kind of stuff getting that out of the water. But in regards to the chemicals, you know, we are we are doing pretty poor. Now, I’ve got this is a couple interesting, just typography type pieces of information I’m looking up. There are certain cities, it’s very, very few. But there are certain cities in the US that have very pure water and they don’t require water treatment. And this is going to be very interesting to you. Boston, is actually one of those cities. So Boston, New York City, San Francisco, Denver, and Portland, Oregon. These are the largest cities in the US that do not treat their surface water beyond disinfection, because their water sources are in protected watersheds and thus are naturally pure, and it goes into Boston and how they get their water from this reservoir and a way river and blah, blah, blah. So and then-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I went to school at UMass I would drive by the reservoir it was it was called that the Quabbin reservoir was like huge, but it was a man made reservoir. I think in the post World War 2 they it occurred. But yeah, I totally agree that the thing is, I still would never trust it just because I don’t trust there’s not some level of pesticide residue running off and getting in there at some way or another. So worst case, even if your water is clean, it can’t hurt running it through a really good high quality, you know, activated carbon type of filter that’s at least keep a lot of that cut out for sure.
Evan Brand: Just to be if it goes into different parts of California and blah, blah, blah. But yeah, I mean, I just think it’s too risky. I mean, you could look at what they say, you know, it’s pure because it comes from here and there. But I mean, we’ve seen I mean look at the Arctic, right. I mean, we’ve tested polar bear fat and you’ve got all the PCBs and major major toxin issues that far away, where man has never stepped foot in general. So I think it’s just much safer to just assume it’s toxic even despite what you’re told.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, I remember just, you know, waterskiing and Lake Austin, you have all these multimillion dollar homes and the side of the property with beautiful green lawns, and then when it rains, all that pesticide potential runoff going into the water, right. And so there’s definitely some of that that’s happening. So you got to be careful, right. And we even know algae blooms and E. coli can get into the water, things like that. And, you know, we hope some of the chlorine can get to that and help it but just in case, I think it’s worth having at least an activated carbon, you know, higher quality filter through multistage processes, with some kind of a post filtration as well, to kind of get that under control, you know, usually you’re going to get something at a 20 micron level or less or so, at a filtration level to filter out larger particulate, some kind of a really good activated, activated charcoal activated carbon type of filtration to absorb toxins, which is very helpful. And there may also be other filtration that we do on the reverse osmosis side to get the smaller particulate out. So for instance, a reverse osmosis filters and they get about 95% of the fluoride out, alright, if we do just an activated carbon, we may only get about 50% of the fluoride out. So an activated carbon activated charcoal filter, very helpful, it’s not going to get all the fluoride out, and there’s still natural fluoride that may be in the water, whether it’s calcium fluoride, some of the more natural ones that you find there, maybe not the sodium fluoride that’s more synthetic, or the, the hydrofluorosilicic acid that may be a little bit more, let’s say amalgamated with other compounds in there. So you want to have a good whole house filtration system that’s at least a activated carbon type of filter. And we’re going to put some of the links below that Evan, and I both recommend that kind of hit both these categories. So we’ll put the links down below for you guys to look at. And these are the products that we personally use with our family and ourselves and our patients. And I’ve used them over the year. So we’ll put those links down below. But the first thing is at least a whole house, or an activated carbon kind of water filter. Now, we can start off with ones that are pitcher based if you’re a student or you’re someone on a budget that can be helpful for just putting water in and running a gravity filter through that’s helpful. And then you may also want to get a really good activated carbon one for the showers to prevent the chlorine in the shower. We’re not so much worried about fluoride in the shower, because fluoride is not really a gas, but the chlorine can definitely kind of be more of a gas like state and that can also be inhaled when that hot water is coming in. We want something to really focus on the fluoride and such when we’re showering. So a good water filters, it’d be helpful. Now if you get a whole house water filter, the nice thing about that you don’t have to worry about all the different showerheads, you can just put that whole house thing on there, and you’ll be good to go.
Evan Brand: Yep, I wanted to go into a couple more sources of like where you’re getting exposed to these toxins because people just think about drinking but as you just hit on showering, you’re also going to be exposed to it. I’ve had many, many, many clients. I mean, I’ve lost count how many have had skin issues, and especially those people with histamine issues if there is a mast cell component to their health problems, just the chlorine alone could aggravate their mouth cells and create a histamine response. So if you’re noticing that you’re having a skin issue a skin reaction, some type of a rash, you’re getting flushed, you’re getting red, you know your cheeks are red, your chest is red, after a shower, or just general skin irritation, skin dryness, I mean people that are trying to improve skin quality. The chlorine from the shower is a big one also dishwashers think about the dishwasher, you’ve got a lot of hot water, and that’s really going to be activating that chlorine gas. I’ve had some clients that were in the kitchen doing dishes standing next to the dishwasher while it runs and they’re getting a headache and they don’t know why. And we traced it back to the chlorine gases coming out of the dishwasher. Now of course these are more sensitive people. And you listening may not be that sensitive. But these are the canaries in the coal mine that really show us the true toxicity going on. And then if we’re able to implement a whole house filter, of course that also removes the chlorine from your dishwasher. So now your kitchen is not going to be this big chlorine bomb anymore, which is which is amazing. And also your ice. Think about people that are doing ice beverages. My wife loves an iced coffee. And if we didn’t have a whole house filter. Now, it is true that refrigerators and freezers they do have filters these days. However, they’re very poor. Generally, they’re going to be removing lead, maybe some Mercury, but in regards to like your trihalomethanes, your bpaas, or chloramines, your pharmaceuticals, your pesticides, all of that stuff. It’s just not the level of purity you’re looking for. So your ice is contaminated. You put the ice in the drink, and you get exposed there. And then really just to kind of summarize all the toxins, you really have just four big categories. You’ve got your chemicals, which is like the pesticide you’ve got glyphosate, you talked about the pesticide runoff, that’s a huge problem because we know that even parts per billion ppb which is tiny amounts of glyphosate kill beneficial bacteria in the gut. So literally, it’s almost like you’re drinking an antibiotic in your tap water because the glyphosate. And then in regards to like the, you know, the the physical toxins in the water, I mean, whether it’s like clay or no just organic material that ends up in the water. I know like the Ohio River, that where Kentucky gets their water. I mean, you got mud and crap running off into there all the time. And then what about, like the biological stuff? You mentioned viruses, we talked about parasites, we talked about bacteria. And then what about like radiation? I mean, that’s, that’s tough to say. But I don’t know exactly the locations I’ve seen in the desert. You’ve got like uranium and cesium showing up like in California, you’ve seen a lot of cesium showing up from Fukushima, the nuclear reactor that’s still leaking To this day, almost a decade later. So you’ve got no radiation to deal with. And so all these things add up. And you can, the good news is, you can you and I kind of joked about this, but you can make yourself live in a healthy bubble. And it seems like you’re having to go above and beyond and you’re just the health freak. But now this is honestly the standard of care that your water should have, you know, this is really just standard practice, you’re really just trying to get back to the water that your great, great, great, great grandparents drink before all these chemicals were invented.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% 100% I totally agree. I’m going to show you a couple of text sheets here in a second, we’ll just look at some of the things that we want to see filtered out, that’s gonna be very, very important. Just because of the fact that we want to make sure we’re not getting exposed to a lot of these things. That’s really important. The first thing we can do people talk about, like, Hey, what about this detox smoothie, or these detox supplements, or whatever people are all on this kind of detox kit? Well, the first thing we can do to stop or to support detoxification is stop adding toxic burden to the body, it’s the first thing we can work on to prevent toxicity, it’s just stopped the burden. So that’s really why I want to put a lot of people’s focus on out of the gates. Now just take a look at this here off the off the bat so you guys can see my screen. So with a whole house filter, or really good activated carbon filter we want to see so you can see up here, these are a lot of chlorine or chloramines. So these are like kind of chlorine like metabolites very, very bad. So we’re looking at a 97.6, 98, 99%, upper 90% reduction, and that’s really big. Then we have our [inaudible]. We’re getting a 99.9% reduction there, you can see a reduction in mercury 98 97 96 nothing’s 100% but you’re really knocking down a lot of that load as fast as 99%. Then you’re looking at a lot of the hormones. These are really important, right? Bisphenol A estrogen mimicker, DEET, estrogen mimicker hormones in the environment, look, ibuprofen, right? Naproxen, pain medications, all of these things actually can get dumped in the water, people dump it down the drain. And you can see we’re at, you know, mid to upper 90% reduction there. And then these are a lot of the pesticides, these are organic chlorines that are going to be spilt into the water supply via pesticide runoff into our water supplies. That’s why I’ve been saying, well, this these waters may be great. It’s like, Well, you know, can you really trust like, are you going to do an audit of every home nearby, and their influence on that water table do to pass that round? But that’s a hard thing to quantify, right? So you can see here, these are a lot of the pesticides, Atrazine, right, that’s one that can affect your hormone system, 97%, chlorobenzene, 99%. So these are all nasty chemicals that can easily affect your hormones and reproductive systems. So we want to have a good reduction there.
Evan Brand: Let me make one other point too, because one thing you were showing was like the allowable concentration, the problem is the standards are not super strict here. And so you know, you may see that the municipal company allows X amount of parts per million, or parts per billion, but even at those levels that they’re allowing, even at that cutoff, they could still have toxic effects, like we talked about with the glyphosate parts per billion, just several parts per billion is enough to kill beneficial bacteria in the gut. So they’re talking more toxicity, like you’re going to get cancer if you drink this cup of water, you know, they’re cut off is just not strict enough, kind of like you and I talk about with natural functional medicine ranges with blood testing and conventional ranges, like you may look fine on the conventional range. But on the functional range, you and I have an issue with these thyroid markers. Same thing with these here, the EPA or whoever else may set these standards and go Okay, yeah, these levels aren’t going to kill you. But we’re going to argue, no, this isn’t good enough, we want less.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. So we like to look at a lot of the active carbon really helping and providing a big benefit of filtering out a good chunk of this. And then when we look at the for instance, the reverse osmosis, this is where we’re going to knock down more parasites, so we’re going to knock down most of the fluoride, right 94% you can see radium these are you know, going to be radioactive compounds in there. So this is where we really knocked down a lot of stuff. So you’re going to look at some kind of filter that’s a reverse osmosis, which is a very, very small membrane to filter things out. A lot of times the good reverse osmosis will contain some kind of an active carbon activated charcoal carbon based filter in the for stage type of setup. Usually some kind of pre filter post filter, some kind of membrane reverse osmosis membrane that’s gonna filter things out at a 20 micron or less. And then we’re looking at the activated carbon. And then a lot of times there’s some kind of a post filter on the RL because the problem with the Yarrow is it may knock out healthy beneficial minerals. Like for instance, looking at Selenium there, right, selenium is being knocked down. Now you’re not getting a lot of it in your water, you’re probably seeing magnesium knocked down potassium knockdowns, we want some kind of a filter that will add some minerals back. But we may also use like a really good high quality sea salt, and put it next to your kind of sink where you’re getting your water to add some minerals back in. So I always have like a nice salt shaker right next to my reverse osmosis filter. And so I’ll put a little bit in the morning, maybe a half a teaspoon, I’ll add some water, I’ll shoot it, I’ll drink it throughout the day. And then usually I’m drinking like some topo Chico mineral water or some Pellegrino during the day and glass. And so I’ll hit my reverse osmosis in the morning, before lunch, and then before bed, a lot of times I’ll hit it then. So it’s really clean. And then my whole house filter is really cleaning up everything where if I do go to my my bathroom upstairs, and it doesn’t have an arrow attached to it, the water still really good. Or I’m still okay having that kind of water or, showering having really good clean water in the shower, just knowing I’m not going to get extra exposure to chlorine in that heat, which will go into a gas state and breathe it in.
Evan Brand: Yeah, I’ve had other clients with children specifically who were giving their children baths just in the conventional tap water. And their children were having skin irritation. So the mom says, Well, maybe we’re bathing the kid too often. So then they would go to an every other day or maybe in every third day. And in some cases, that was enough to resolve the issue. But I pointed out, it’s not the bath. That’s the problem. It’s the toxins and the chemicals in the bath so we could bathe our children every day. And we have no issue with their skin at all. versus when we spent a little bit of time in a hotel and we were bathing our kids, we noticed their skin did get more irritated. And you know, hotels typically have a small bathroom. It’s not like a big master bath like we have in a house. And so I remember we’d run the bath for the kids. We go into the hotel bathroom and my god you could smell the whole room smelled like a swimming pool. I was like, wow, even just these trace amounts of chlorine and chloramines and trihalomethanes. That was enough to create a big issue. And also, I want to point out something indoor areas like indoor swimming pool areas where you have indoor chlorinated pools, those are not good places to be. I’ve had a massive amount of issues with clients that were working or you know, generally children of parents working with me that were lifeguards, and they would start gaining massive amounts of weight when they started there. I mean, this is not just one one off cases, several cases where as soon as the teenager jumped into the indoor lifeguard thing, and they’re just breathing in the trihalomethanes all day and the chlorine, chloramines they gain massive amounts of weight. So I don’t know necessarily the mechanism. I don’t know if it’s the chlorine, you know, damaging the gut bacteria. And then there’s the SIBO weight weight gain situation. I don’t know the mechanism, but I’ve definitely seen it and in Canada, there was a study done I’m trying to pull it up here because I used to have it bookmark that. Trihalomethanes. They’re abbreviated as THM. These are the byproducts and the drinking water after the chemicals are used to treat it. That is Canadian study was saying that it was like a 65% of all cancers were attributed to the trihalomethanes in the tap water. Let me just say that again, because this is crazy. It was like 65% of cancer cases, were directly linked to trihalomethanes, which are these disinfecting chemicals. There’s one here and there’s many if you want to look this up, but long term exposure, trihalomethanes in drinking water and breast cancer. This was a Spanish study. And they go into chloroform, which we didn’t even talk about chloroform. It’s too long of a study to get into to read the whole thing. But long story short, you can filter this crap out. So please do it and don’t swim in it. Do salt water, go to a place take your kids where they can do saltwater and not go in the chlorine and if you absolutely positively have no option, but to take your kids into chlorine. It is true that some of the micronized chlorella products that Justin and I use clinically, these chlorella drops these tinctures they have been shown there are some case studies on reducing and or preventing chlorine exposure. So you would take some of the micronized chlorella before you go into the chlorine and then you could do a dose afterwards. And that’s been shown to prevent any type of absorption of the chlorine the chlorella is blank. On to the chlorine molecule. So in a pinch, I think that’d be a good strategy. And how do we know this works? Well, we’ve seen kids with autism and other issues where once they would bathe in a chlorinated pool, they would then have some type of a flare or reaction. And those flares and reactions were prevented with the chlorella administered orally, before getting into the chlorine pool.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think vitamin C also helps with chlorine detox as well. So vitamin C and chlorine detox. So it’s an it’s a natural method of neutralizing chlorine. So it’s really helpful. So you can always take some extra vitamin C, you can always take some extra sulfur amino acids as a means to help like and I have I personally have a pool I have a saltwater pool. And again, a saltwater pool, right you have sodium chloride, that actually that chloride gets broken off, it gets ionized down to via via hydrolysis, and that chloride then binds to the H in the H2o and then it forms you get some level of chlorine forming based on the the hydrogen in the chlorine forming. And so that’s how you make natural chlorine. Now, typical acceptable ranges for chlorine in pool is usually two to four parts per million, two to four. And, of course, the public pools and the be at that higher level and those shotcut more frequency more frequently, right. So my pool only gets shocked typically once per year, you know, when I open it, and then I keep my chlorine level down 2.5 to one part per million. So it’s at a level where I’m doing about 10 ppm on myself so and that’s enough where one there’s no odor, and two, you can put your eyes in the water, open them up, be underwater all day, and then there’s no irritation at all afterwards. So that’s kind of like my threshold like number one, no odor, and number two, no irritation to mucous membranes and eyes. Now one thing I do to help in my pool, I get a a copper or a silver ionizer. And it sits in the pool, and then the UV light hits it and it dispels ions into the pool. And those ions provide some kind of a natural anti microbial benefit to prevent algae from going because you don’t want algae is growing, right? If algae is growing, that can be like fuel for other bacteria, their microbes. You don’t want those microbes either. So it’s a balancing act of like not wanting your pool to become essentially a pond, right. But you don’t want so much chemical in there that you’re absorbing it. So I kind of find getting my chlorine level down to a point five to a one ppm. I keep my filter going on all the time. 24/7, I just got a new filter. By the way, a new motor for it thing last 13 years is amazing. But that keeps running and it goes through a a sand filter. So it’s really, you know, pulling out a lot of the particulate obviously I’m back washing my pool at least once or twice a week. And then I use that ionized so that allows me to keep my chlorine down I have I have my pool service by a company I talked to I say hey, how low because I’ve instructed that I want to keep the chlorine at the lowest possible level before algae or any microbes may grow. I said on all the pools you guys manage it. My the lowest are like yeah, they manage 500 pools. I’m like the lowest amount of chlorine out of all the pool. So I tried to keep it in at that level. And that’s kind of a good trick. And it really helps.
Evan Brand: That’s awesome. Yeah, and you mentioned the vitamin C. That’s actually one thing we did too. And we were in the hotel and if we travel we can’t bring filters with us is they actually sell vitamin C, dechlorinization tablets. These are something you can buy online. It almost looks like an Alka Seltzer tablets. Pretty funny. But you take these little vitamin C tablets and you throw it into your bathtub. And it works. I mean, you go back into a small room where there’s a bathtub filled with chlorine water, you throw in that tablet and it fizzes. Immediately you go back in and like two, three minutes, and you no longer smell the chlorine. And apparently, this is a widely used practice in Aqua culture for raising farm raised fish that they use the vitamin C to. It says here that they’ll use it to treat wounds and farm raised fish. It was actually no-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I know, you can get water filters for the shower shower filters that have like an activated carbon kind of filter as well as vitamin C in it. And that can be helpful just kind of reducing some of that chlorine load. But if you have a pool, right, if you have a new pool, you know I like a saltwater and then if you can get some kind of an ozone feature put on there or you want to add in an ionizer that floats in that’s great. Or if you want to add a UV component I looked at doing some UV stuff. I didn’t feel comfortable with it because there was a couple of recalls on the one that I had for fires. So but if you have you’re putting a new pool in definitely look at getting a good system that may have a UV filter on it that will help kind of provide some decrease, you know, microbial activity without adding more chemicals to the water right. That’s the key.
Evan Brand: Yeah, awesome. Well, this is an exciting piece of the puzzle for people’s health. Is it that all of a sudden you filter your water and your health magically gets better? Well and around about way? Yes. I mean, if you’re not putting in heavy metals, if you’re not putting in pesticide and herbicide you mentioned the pharmaceutical drugs to those end up in the water not only from people dumping them into the water but also just urination. Believe it or not, people are peeing out the metabolites a pharmaceutical drugs have they found some Cipro, they found blood pressure medication, heart medication, antidepressants, anti anxiety, medication, pain pills, all from the urine of people, they pee in the toilet, that goes back into the sewers back into the reservoir, they then filter it again. But, you know, once again, these big municipal companies, they’re focused on filtering volume, this is all about millions and millions of gallons that are pretty clean, but not the thousands of gallons you’re using in your house, ultimately clean. So just want to make the distinction. Those systems are not designed for purity. They’re designed for volume. And so when you’re getting exposed to these trace amounts of drugs over time, it makes sense why society is, you know, partially crazy, because they are they’re on all these drugs. And you’re having people, you know, dosed at a dose that they don’t want, they, you know, people are not, they’re not intending to drink antidepressants, but it’s just a byproduct of, of what’s happened. So anyway, the good news is, I could go on a rant on that forever, and people would probably love it. But the summary is you can filter this stuff out. So get it done. As Justin mentioned, we’ll have links in the show notes, because we’re always updating our recommendations. But the links we’re going to have for you are things that we use clinically and things we use personally in our own homes, and things we’ve been used when we travel. So I hope that’s been helpful.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Like it, yeah, in general. So we kind of talked about it with water. So there’s a couple of different stages, right? Let’s say you’re someone on a fixed budget, you’re someone that an apartment complex or student, right, we have some good recommended kind of active activated charcoal type of filters that are more gravity based that are helpful. Now there’s like cheaper ones that are out there, like the brighter ones, not quite as good, there’s some better ones, we’ll put links below, of the ones that we like on the gravity side or on the you know, the portable kind of gravity side where you can put in the fridge, there are some countertop units that are helpful on that are just really good activated charcoal ones, there are some under the counter. So if you have access to drilling a hole in the countertop, and putting a tank below, that’s wonderful if you can do that. And then we have obviously the whole house, you probably want to be living there to be able to do that one, that’s helpful. And then we have different shower ones, that can also be helpful too, if you don’t live there, but you want to clean up the water coming out of your shower, those are a couple of really good options, we’ll put the links down below. And then I hope you enjoyed some of the pool tips I recommended. So that’s helps you to kind of keep the chlorine down, I always tell people, anytime if you’re managing your own chlorine, or you have a pool service doing it, you know, get the chlorine down to the lowest possible level where you can’t smell it, you can’t taste it, it doesn’t irritate your eyes or mucous membranes. And at the same time, you don’t have algae growing in the pool. So if you can kind of fit that level, maybe point five to one, maybe definitely two or below is ideal if you can do it. And then if you use the ionizer, or other techniques that should be helpful too.
Evan Brand: Beautiful, that’s awesome, great advice. And share this with your friends, your family, they probably don’t even have a clue that toxins in the tap water are an issue and they don’t have a clue that it could be damaging the microbiome. So here you are spending good money on your fermented foods, you’re doing your combos, you’re doing your Kim cheese, whatever else you’re taking probiotics, you’re fixing your gut issues, but then you go out to the restaurant and you just drink the restaurants tap water. So this is another helpful step to help you take back your health. So this is Evan Brand signing out. And Dr. J, if you need help clinically, please reach out JustinHealth.com for Justin, Dr. J., me EvanBrand.com. And, you know, sharing is caring. So you know share this information. Let’s improve the water everywhere people need to help all day all the help they can all the help they can get. And the last thing we want is you getting exposed to something that you don’t have to get exposed to.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. So if you guys want to reach out, these are all techniques that we use with our patients kind of day in day out. In general, if you don’t have a good water filtration, you could always maybe go to Costco or Sam’s Club and just get some good bottle water. I’d like Topochico you could do Pellegrino I like it because they’re in glass too. So you don’t have any pesticide runoff. So you can always store these at your office or in a little fridge nearby where you’re working most of the time. So you can at least go through a liter or two of these during the day and try to have a good you know, at least the cheaper gravity filter in the in the picture form is always still great. Choose a higher one and then kind of work your way up. That’s really important. I remember when I was a student, I think it was undergraduate I remember this was like 15 20 years ago, I spent I saved up like a whole week’s paycheck to buy a reverse osmosis filter and it was a countertop portable when it was like the first of its kind It was amazing. And I would go buy like these big three to five gallon like things from Whole Foods. I fill it up one day and then let it filter for like five hours fill it up, and then my water for like the next four or five days now repeat every single, you know, half a week people thought I was crazy back then because our rows were relatively new. So I prioritize my money towards good water you should too. It’s very important good foundation for health for 70% water so very important. And if you want to reach out down below again, we’ll put the links and our favorite products that we use with our friends and family and patients. Evan phenomenal chat with you, man.
Evan Brand: You too.