Types of Magnesium and Their Benefits | Podcast #236

Magnesium is an essential vitamin that our body needs, especially when we are stressed or if our body needs help in absorbing more nutrients.

In this episode, learn more about the amazing benefits of taking Magnesium supplements, deficiency symptoms, and how it can help in our inner health. Know more about how much Magnesium you need, and the different superfoods that give off this wonderful mineral.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

In this episode, we cover: 

0:51 Magnesium Deficiency

4:20 Magnesium Benefits

9:25 Medications and Magnesium

19:58 RDA (Rat Drugs and Assumptions)

23:44 Diets, Magnesium consumption, etc.




Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey guys it’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani. Today, we are gonna be chatting about magnesium, types of magnesium benefits, deficiency symptoms and what you can do about it. So, really excited to have today’s talk going on here. Evan, how are we doing today?


Evan Brand: Hey man, I’m doing well. I got inspired to talk about magnesium because last night I put on some magnesium oil that I purchased, you know cause I have a lot of clients today ‘oh I put magnesium oil on my legs and it really helps me sleep’ and I’m like ‘oh really?’ you know how, how was like six sprays of topical magnesium really gonna do that much but I did it and I really slept much better. So is it placebo? Did it truly do that much? I mean, I think, we know the literature shows transdermal magnesium as possible so maybe it was that magnesium.


Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. We do know that there’s some data showing that magnesium can help with cortisol levels at night then it can improve deeper sleep at night, and we also know as a large percent of the population is deficient and we can go into a lot of these things why. So why don’t we just dive in? So off the bat– there’s data showing that 50% of the population is deficient in magnesium. Now, why is that? Couple things we know that the soils are becoming more and more depleted based on just lots of pesticides in the soil and roundup. That’s kind of their base roundups like a mineral key later so it hugs the minerals, pulls them away from the plant, and that’s kind of their mechanism of killing. Now, when you dump a whole bunch in the soil over time, it’s gonna really deplete a lot of those minerals in the soil and if those minerals are hugged or chelated away from the plant, that plant cannot take it up it’s Michael Reiser root system. So then you start to have deficiencies in these minerals in the plants because you know, you know if you can’t access, it could it’s being chelated away by glyphosate or roundup. It can’t go on the plant and we know the minerals get, um, uptake by the root system. And minerals also help with the expression of nutrition in the plant. So for instance with manganese, deficient manganese soil tends to cause a significant deficiencies in vitamin C in the plants as well. So it’s not just the mineral deficiency. That mineral deficiency spirals out when the other nutrient deficiencies in the plants main mechanism is microbiome of the soil is being affected, and the number two is just processed refined carbohydrates tend to not have magnesium, and when they go into your body, the Krebs cycle tends to need magnesium to metabolize a lot of this sugar. So it’s like using a credit card with a really high transaction fee that you already can’t pay to begin with. So you have a really high transaction fee, meaning you’re using magnesium to burn up that sugar and that sugar doesn’t even have magnesium in it to begin with, so you’re creating more deficiencies– One, by the soil. Two by the food, and then three in general just with stress excess cortisol excess stress. We will use more magnesium to buffer and to relax and to make GABA and to chill your body out so more stress will be the other key mechanism that will be causing you to burn out magnesium. Thoughts, Evan?


Evan Brand: Great analogy! Yeah, I mean it really goes to show how many people are deficient in magnesium. The soil piece that just goes to show more benefits of why you should be eating as much as you possibly can organic, you know, that’s a question we always ask our clients. What percent of your diet is organic make that number is close to a hundred percent as you can at your house, and also you know this time of the year we’re talking in the summertime. You know, a lot of farmers markets are out now. And just because it’s a farmers market food, doesn’t mean it’s organic. Though a lot of farmers still spray, so if you do go the farmers market make sure it’s certified organic or speak with them about did you spray. But if you can go local and organic you’re going to get even more minerals because we know if you could go and buy organic broccoli at Whole Foods that traveled from California, and you’re on the east coast, I mean, that’s potentially 1 to 2 weeks a travel time now. Is it still better than no broccoli?


Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. 


Evan Brand: But, if we’re talking, we want our people to be the top 100% of health. If you go down the street to the farmers market, you get broccoli, it was cut yesterday. I mean, you’re gonna have more bang for your buck.


Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%, yeah 100%. So let’s talk about magnesium benefits, okay, so we know magnesium is a relaxer. It helps vasodilate. It relaxes a lot of our blood, so it’s an help with blood vessel and vasculature health. Number 2, it has some really good anti-inflammatory benefits. So we do a lot of organic acid testing and there’s just inflammatory metabolites that we look at call Quinolinate. Quinolinate acid tends to go up in regards to brain inflammation. Now, why is the brain inflamed? It could be from lipopolysaccharides, from bacterial overgrowth, it could be from gluten issues, it could be from pesticide or mold exposure, mycotoxins and we see more Quinolinate acid and that comes out in the urine, but that’s a sign of brain inflammation. Now, we know that magnesium can actually help decrease Quinolinate acid. It decreases brain inflammation. I just know even surgically Dr. Russell Blaylock, they missed neurosurgeons lectured on this topic many times. When he would give patients who he operated on that a craniotomy or whatever brain procedure was, he would give them magnesium, he would confer with his colleagues and these patients the head the Supplemental magnesium post-surgery actually healed much better. So we know magnesium really, really good for any neurological stress. So really good things there magnesium plugs into the Krebs cycle which we talked about for energy. That’s why when you’re eating a whole bunch of sugar without magnesium, you get more depletion. So magnesium is really important for the Krebs cycle and for the energy. I’ll let you hit a couple more, Evan. Go ahead. 


Evan Brand: No, that’s huge. That’s exactly what I was gonna hit on is that you, you wouldn’t think of magnesium increasing energy but it can there was one study that I had pulled up here, that was looking at magnesium deficient women and when they exercised, they needed more oxygen to complete low-level activities and they had a higher heart rate compared to when their magnesium levels were higher. So when you look at an athlete, if an athlete has adequate magnesium, hopefully that resting heart rate and then the heart rate under activity doesn’t have to go as high because you’ve got more minerals pumping. And you’re mentioning the nerves, you’re mentioning the muscles, everything worked– working much better. That’s crazy about the surgery there was also vitamin C. I want to say I read something about vitamin C and magnesium being used in an IV either pre or post surgery and that also being a game-changer.


Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, 100%. And, and we also know magnesium is really really important for muscle relaxation. So if you’re exercising a lot and your muscles are tighter or more more more more tonic or tight it’s gonna really help relax the muscles. We also know magnesium is a natural laxative. Now, I always draw a line because we have to figure out is the reason why your bowels aren’t moving. Is it because of SIBO or low stomach acid, or could part of that be just from not having enough magnesium in your system. The magnesium is really, really, really important for that migrating motor complex. It could be that as well, so light, you know having good luck noting magnesium is important 


Evan Brand: Yeah, we’ll give people different forms of magnesium to help move the needle with the bowels, but you still got to work backwards, right. You can’t just live on magnesium citrate for example every day, because there’s probably a root cause that’s it’s causing that constipation is really really common. You know, of course we know adrenals are tied into the gut and thyroid tied into the gut and hypothyroidism may slow the bowels down. So there may be 3, 4, 5, 6 factors that we’re looking at to make sure the bowels are moving, but magnesium is definitely a part of the picture. 


Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. Yeah, 100%. Alright, so in general, let’s just kind of dive in any other things magnesium can be helpful for. So we also know I highlighted the big three, right? We talked about what causes these deficiencies, we talked about pesticide, and slash around up and efficiency of the soil, we talked about stress, talked about sugar and guess one more we should highlight, Evan. I think that would be in general and maybe two more, so just having poor digestion. So if we have got permeability issues aka leaky gut and we have low hydrochloric acid and enzyme levels, that could be partly caused by SIBO or H pylori or some type of gut infection. That could easily be driving a lot of deficiency because we know we need good hydrochloric acid levels to be able to ionize our magnesium so we can absorb it. Ionized minerals that basically are making the minerals more absorbable so we can break them down.


Evan Brand: Well, how about just age, I mean by the time you’re age 50, age 60, you look at Dr. Wright’s book on stomach acid. I mean, you’re making hardly any stomach acid by that age so we could just say, ‘hey if you’re above age 50, you’re probably magnesium deficient unless you’re supplementing a couple other benefits,I would say headaches’ You know, headaches, even migraine headaches, you can really really improve your symptoms with, with magnesium and then we did mention the sleep I would just say the — what do you call those charley horses in your gaffes? Yeah like cramp or B niculae shoes. Yep, I remember being a kid having those charley horses in my calves. I wish I would have had magnesium oil back then I’m sure it would have helped.


Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, yeah absolutely! So we kind of hit the big major causes and the last cause I had– Oh last one and don’t yet is medications. Medications are a big big driving factor of magnesium deficiency.  So one of the big ones, I call it the vicious cycle and you see this happen when you are prescribed a medication, and that medication creates a certain nutrient deficiency and that nutrient actually helps with the symptoms– that the medication was prescribed with to begin with. So creates a vicious cycle so for instance a lot of diuretics and beta blockers they cause you to excrete out magnesium but magnesium is also really important for relaxing the blood vessels and relaxing the heart. So then you excrete more of that nutrient that actually helps with the heart helps with the blood pressure and the vasculature so it’s actually perpetuating the more need for that medication longer and longer and longer, so it really creates a vicious cycle not the best business model if you’re trying to actually get to the root cause.


Evan Brand: Yeah, blood pressure drugs – you mentioned diuretics. You could basically consider blood pressure drugs diuretic, right? That’s kind of the mechanism of them. 


Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We’ll you get a couple right there’s like ace inhibitors which are the.. it’s blocking the angiotensin converting enzyme that helps raise blood pressure. There’s gonna be just like water pills like lisinopril hydrochlorothiazide diuretics, that flush things out. Those are the two big ones they’re arms I think, ARBs– those are the other ones and then there’s beta blockers which basically there’s just calcium ion thing that has to happen in the heart at the sinoatrial and atrial ventricular node where the heart beats and it basically blocks that calcium there which decreases the heart from pumping as hard. But the thing is magnesium actually does that naturally. So you have natural beta blockers in the form of magnesium, but you can see these medications can decrease your internal levels of magnesium and then you need more of the medication to have that physiological effect.


Evan Brand: God, yeah. If you’re in the business of making money, create a drug that depletes the nutrient that the heart actually needs to do. A job do its job so then they’re dependent on the heart drug. I mean, it’s just insanity. All right. Let’s get into symptoms a bit so it’s basically the opposite of all the benefits. Right, so we’ve mentioned benefits like relaxation.. okay so lead so the symptom or side effect of magnesium deficiency, could be anxiety, it could be trouble sleeping, it could be leg cramps or restless leg, it could be a blood pressure like we just talked about, you know. Blood pressure issues that are uncontrolled just hypertension in general.


Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. 


Evan Brand: What else? What else is on the, the bad things, the symptoms.


Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I mean tremors vertigo which is hard time swallowing nausea, tired, fatigue, anxiety, depression — I mean these are all things that potentially can be there. Sleep issues, epilepsy, asthma, depression, cardiac issues, cardiac pain, PMS, I mean, I see it a lot women that have magnesium deficiency a lot of women that are going into premenstrual symptoms. Guess what they start to crave. They start to crave dark chocolate. Why? Because dark chocolates very high in magnesium, so a lot of women intuitively crave dark chocolate ‘cuz their body knows that there’s certain nutrients in there that will actually help a lot of that cramping. So magnesium is really important for cramping and we can actually increase it during right before a woman starts to menstruate and or during and after to help relax the muscles.


Evan Brand: Yeah, just because it’s common to have PMS and cramping doesn’t mean it’s normal. So you like to say, you know, a woman’s menstrual cycle it really just kind of sneak up on you. It should just come and all the sudden. Oh, you’re bleeding there we go as opposed to a week of misery irritability anger, I mean–


Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. I want to just highlight one thing before we move on. Let’s just go over the family of medications, the tend to deplete magnesium. So we have the acid blocking medications, right? Your prilosec, your nexium, your santa, we already talked about the mechanism, why? Because we need enough acid to essentially ionize those minerals so we can absorb it. We have the blood pressure medications, we talked about that whether it’s the water pills or whether it’s the beta blockers or the ACE inhibitors or the ARB medication, we talked about those. So lasix, a lot of people get put on lasix, not good yet. Lasix, that’s a diuretic of digoxin. It’s another one that’s a heart medication that will deplete magnesium certain hormones can, as well birth control pills are known to and this is another vicious cycle. So a lot of women, they’re on birth control pills, maybe an antidepressant, maybe they’re on an acid blocker, you can see how if you’re on a combination of those medications. You are in trouble so various hormones did whether it’s estradiol or estrogen creams. The various oral contraceptives like the ethanol estradiol, those are like a lot of the birth control pills, like the Yasmin or etc, various ethanol estradiol compounds, ADHD medications methylphenidate medication, this is like ritalin concerta medidate adderall and then also various antibiotics. Antibiotics, whether it’s amoxicillin or z-pak levaquin minocycline, these antibiotics can deplete magnesium and then also corticosteroids and corticosteroids have a major effect they increased blood sugar as well. So when you increase blood sugar, that’s gonna also affect the metabolism of magnesium. So with various corticosteroids, whether it’s hydrocortisone cream or prednisone or methaprednisone, these are all gonna be big ones there, and I think it’s a pre.. pretty pretty good way to start. So antacids acid blocking blood pressure medications, hormones, oral contraceptives, ADHD medications, antibiotics and corticosteroids. 


Evan Brand: Yeah, let’s take Johnny who can’t pay attention in school. Let’s put him on a t-888 medication, so now he focuses and then used to put it in magnesium. So now, he’s anxious and now the doctor says, ‘well now we need to calm him down, so let’s get him on a benzodiazepine to calm him down in the evening and then we’ll stimulate him in the morning with the ADHD medication’. 


Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah crazy. I mean you can.


Evan Brand: Yeah. It doesn’t have to happen this way. I mean, in our case you know we could come in we see something like ADHD, we could throw more magnesium in, we could throw in chlorella and detox nutrients, help deliver help the gut, I mean, we work with so many kids that the teacher is like blown away at the progress. They see and this is all relatively simple stuff, I mean, once you get the root causes, you get the clinical data, you get the proper lab testing, you can see what the heck’s going on. Then you can fix it you don’t have to get the kids on drugs it’s just ridiculous. 


Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, especially boys. Boys tend to have the harder time sitting you know, still for six hours as you get into grade school. So boys tend to get prescribed a lot of these medications. Just you know, it’s easier for them because they tend to have a harder time sitting still and focusing. So be careful if you have a boy, you know you really got to watch out because these medications tend to be what’s prescribed. If they don’t comply, so if you’re in that kind of public school type of apparatus and your child’s not conforming, you got to be careful because this is the the vicious medication cycle that may be prescribed to get your your kid on track. Now obviously, girls are gonna be there too but you’re gonna see just more boys being prescribed these medications. So in general, what are things that we can do so we can obviously make sure we’re consuming nutrient-rich magnesium foods? Now of course, this is gonna be like your leafy green. So of course leafy greens, celery juice in the morning is great, good potassium, good magnesium, you can do seeds, pumpkin seeds are amazing, spinach, Swiss chard, sesame seeds, cashews — so good seeds. Packing your kid a snack with Goods nuts and seeds to go to school is amazing. If we’re gonna give some carbohydrates, you know, we can do squash, we can do sweet potato, these are all great we can do. Various greens, turnip greens, beet grains, these are amazing ways to get extra nutrition in your kid. Also getting a good magnesium supplement. So if we’re on a good stuff that we want to be on, like a magnesium alloy or a magnesium glycinate, so really good way to go and there are other sources like natural calm, which is more of a magnesium citrate. It’s a little bit more cost effective. I’ll use that more for motility purposes, but if we’re trying to enhance mitochondrial function and get mitochondrial levels up or magnesium levels up, we’ll do like a magnesium dimalate or magnesium glycinate or even a magnesium 3 and a 3 and 8 tends to be really good to cross the brain barren. We have a lot of inflammation and brain thought magnesium 3 and it can be great if we’re trying to improve mitochondrial levels and energy and improve mitochondrial levels for magnesium, you know using magnesium to do that we’ll do a diet malate, and then glycinate is really good as well. Just because we’re, but it’s really well absorb glycine and malli are very well absorbed compounds or amino acid. Do the cheaper ones are gonna be citrate, the most cheap is going to be oxide, typically only for bowel motility citrate more for bowel motility, but some absorption and then maximal absorption will be dimalate 3 and 8 and glycinate.


Evan Brand: Yeah. I love the 3 and 8. It’s huge. The oxide is garbage if you go to Walmart, you by magnesium it’s probably gonna be oxide, it’s around 4% absorption rate. So let’s say you go to take 100 milligrams, you may give 4 milligrams assuming you even digest it. If it’s a tablet filled with fillers, and corn, and gluten and other garbage, you may not even absorb 4 milligrams, you know. So you’re probably doing more harm than good, if you’re taking just a consumer grade product, you always want to go professional-grade with this stuff because there’s a huge difference. It may say magnesium on the label, but what you’re actually getting is you know far different in a professional grade formula.


Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. 100 percent, 100 percent. 


Evan Brand: If you’re not working with a practitioner, you know, seek one out. If you want to work with Justin or me, we’d be happy to help you but if you are working with the practitioner, make sure they’re giving you professional magnesium. I’m a huge fan of supplementing magnesium and not just depending on the diet alone, because it’s tough. I mean, if you look at like pumpkin seeds for example, I want to say it was around like a hundred milligrams for 1/4 of a cup, I mean, and how many pumpkin seeds are you really gonna eat in a day, right? So if you’re doing that and then a sweet potato I think was around like 40 milligrams for an average size sweet potato, so let’s say you’re at 140, you’re still nowhere close to getting that four or five hundred milligrams, right? So I think it’s important to just throw a little extra in the hatch even if you’re just supplementing in, like 1 2 3 400 milligrams a day, to me that’s a good insurance policy. 


Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%, and I would just say let’s kind of go through kind of the RDA. Now, the RDA, I’ve heard it said many times before. RDA stands for rat drugs and assumptions, meaning a lot of the studies are done on rats or animals, or and they’re kind of like a minimum assumptive value. So kind of like take the RDA with the grain of salt and you probably want to have a couple of hundred milligrams of buffer room in there because we want to have enough nutrition for optimal health, not just to prevent symptoms. So in general, explain what party a is people like when do what is he saying, the RDA already has recommended dietary allowances, so this is based off of the data that’s available. Hey, this is how much you need as a, you know, this is how much magnesium he’s taking a day. Okay that’s the general gist now for your typical adult anywhere between 19 to 30 years old male is gonna need 400 milligrams. A female’s underneath 310 milligrams, it goes up slightly as you go above the age of 30, it goes to 424 men, 324 women, and it kind of stays there. You’re actually gonna see a decreased amount during pregnancy, I’m not sure if and when they say that Evan, if the pregnancy is in addition to a typical amount, I’m not sure if they’re meaning an additional. I would always typically go up, so they’re saying during pregnancy and lactation 350 to 310, that’s a drop in what the typical woman would need, so I’m gonna guess that that’s gonna be, you know, we’re gonna do on top of that. We’re gonna do more on top of that or maybe, maybe they just said that to try to be conservative, but I would think to even more important during pregnancy. Yeah I guess there’s an increase if you’re a adult female from 310 to 350 during pregnancy but only forward at 40 milligrams. I don’t know so in general, about you’re looking at 400 I typically recommend 500 milligrams a day of supplemental or at least getting that amount of magnesium, typically we’ll cut that in half and we’ll set them at about 2 to 250 so I like getting about half of it supplemented. That way, it takes a lot of the stress off your back. So if you get 4 to 5 servings of vegetables a day, maybe, maybe a little bit of nuts or seeds you’re good. Some people have allergy issues, right? They have oxalate issues or they have allergies to nuts and seeds, and then supplements are gonna be even more important, but typically, if you’re getting your five or six servings of green today, maybe a handful of nuts, you’re gonna be pretty darn good and again it cuts in half if you’re younger. You’re looking at anywhere between a baby at 75 to a teenager at 250 and it jumps up from age 13 to 14 from 250 to 400, so is a big increase in the amount of magnesium, when as you go from a kid to teenage years and then teenage to adult so big big increases, and I think part of the reason you see ADHD issues or hyperactivity or attention deficit issues is because you have this big metabolic demand increase at age 8 to 9– it doubles and then it doubles again at 13-14, so that’s perfect years for the elementary school and a middle school those magnesium demands go up a lot, so if we don’t have enough supplemental magnesium your kid could be in, you know, deficient and that could drive more of these ADHD medications, you know, obviously sugar gluten dyes preservatives artificial sweeteners. These are all gonna be other mechanisms that are gonna add to that stress bucket, so to speak. 


Evan Brand: Yeah, well said. That’s a really interesting thought that we see the change these kids, it’s like, ‘oh when they got the middle school all the sudden they couldn’t pay attention anymore so huh’, well the man went up if diet didn’t change or didn’t improve or supplements weren’t added, now all of a sudden you’re even more deficient and then the symptoms manifest more than they would have before. Super super interesting point man and–


Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’ve noticed kids diets tend to get worse, right, when, when the kids are at home more and they have they’re more under their parents thumb and they haven’t been exposed to a whole bunch of marketing, they’re eating better as they start hanging out with kids that have eat junky food. They want to be part of the in-crowd, they’re eating worse, they’re also exposed more to commercials and being out and about and being just being promoted and propagandized to buy the junk food, food history then you get to more of the junk which we already know creates more functional deficiencies. 


Evan Brand: Yep, so if you got a teenager and they just got their license, and they’re running around going to all the fast-food joints with their friends, have them listen to this, you know, we work with a lot of teenagers it’s really fun for me because I’m like ‘hey, look if you can get this diet thing figured out now when you’re 16 as opposed to waiting till you’re 46 and miserable like you’re gonna be in way better shape, way more successful, well your brain is gonna work better, you’ll be smarter than your peers, you’ll get better grades’, I mean, when you when you frame it like that usually they’re more compliant as opposed to mom says you need to eat your vegetables. 


Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%, and it becomes really tough because I get a lot of kids may feel ostracized or they just see their other friends eating so much junk and it’s like they want to feel included, it’s just tough. We have a massive deficiency in education especially in and around the area of health and nutrition, so you have a lot of people that are just walking around clueless and they’re kind of just poisoning their self in a very, you know, kind of slow motion type of way, so it’s easy. The more educated you feel, the more ostracize you may feel, I get that so just do your best to get yourself feeling optimal, get the Kryptonite out of your system, right, kryptonite’s what makes Superman weak, so get the Kryptonite out and then do your best just to connect with people that are on a similar wavelength so you don’t feel like you’re the the high maintenance person. When you, when you want to eat some green vegetables or some some nuts of seeds or healthy dietary supplements, so just try to find people that resonate kind of where you’re at therefore you feel more supported and what you’re doing. 


Evan Brand: Good advice! Yeah, I was always like the the black sheep, you know, when I was working in offices eating, can you know what I consider my conventional diet like a bison steak and peas, and buttered people would get pizza and sandwiches for lunch, you want to say what it is like, no I don’t so if you’re getting judged for your food choices, and you’re eating good stuff then you just need to change your circle. That’s good advice.


Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. Awesome, was there anything else you want to chat about here, Evan? I’m gonna put some of the references that we use for this article up with that RDA screenshot up there as well so everyone can see it and look at it. We’ll put it in the transcription page so if you guys are listening to this on our podcast or a YouTube channel, click below and look for that transcription then you guys can get more of this information there as well. 


Evan Brand: I would just add, this is one, you know, we like to zoom out a lot and look at the big picture, but this is one example where I think it’s really important to zoom in and hyper focus on magnesium, because it does so many things. There’s so many enzymatic processes and react actions and things that are happening. Its magnesium is such a catalyst for brain chemistry and neurotransmitters as you mentioned, mitochondria, I mean there’s magnesium dabbles in every part of your body, so I think this is one example where you have to zoom in a bit. We often like that make fun of things when people who zoom too far in and they miss the big picture, but this is where you really need that microscope. You got to focus on this issue because it can change your life and you can measure this too, so you can look at the red blood cell magnesium levels on blood work and there’s other ways you can look at magnesium as well. If you want help, you’ve got issues, if it’s just anxiety it could be something as simple as magnesium, it could be gut infections, I mean, there could be mold issues. I mean, there’s a ton of other things going on, so if you do have some of the symptoms we discussed like blood pressure problems, you’re facing being put on medication, etc, you know reach out the just under me we’d love to help you. You can find Justin’s info in his calendar link, check his availability, that’s at his site, justinhealth.com and you can work online around in the world. And my site’s evanbrand.com. We love helping people we’re very honored and blessed to be in the position we are. So thank you all for tuning in.


Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent! Also, we did a whole thing on flow therapy a few weeks ago, and we talked about the magnesium sulfate. Getting magnesium sulfate sulfate to the epsom salts that are gonna be in a flow tank or magnesium sulfate through epsom salts you put in your standard bath, that’s gonna be an amazing way to get more magnesium especially if you have gut issues. Because when you put it in the water like that, you just have your whole surface area to absorb it, right? So you’re gonna have a ton of absorption, some questions came in, how much? I’m not sure. There’s probably some studies on that but that’s probably gonna increase your absorption the most, and I think if you’re having a long hard stressful day at work instead of coming home and drinking that alcohol, just go take a salt bath or head over to your local flow tank business and get some exposure to magnesium via transdermal to the skin. 


Evan Brand: It would be cool to do a, you know, but it’s… it’s hard, right, because there’s other variables like, you know, what if that person started doing like a green juice everyday, and they got more my knees in that way. But let’s just say if no other variables change, they’d be cool to take a pre blood sample for the intracellular magnesium. Have someone float, you know, once or twice a week for like six weeks and then retest and see what they did. I guarantee you’d see pretty significant improve minutes, I mean, you’re talking 800 pounds usually of Epsom salt. That’s insane. 


Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly, and then last thing is testing for magnesium so you have your typical magnesium serum which will be on like a comprehensive metabolic profile magnesium serum we went above – but magnesium serum that looks at like imagine your suit in a pool, right, and you’re in a little inner tube, right, right. And then you have the water, right, the water is the serum so think of magnesium serum is testing the magnesium in the water, right, and then magnesium red blood cell magnesium is actually looking what’s in the inner tube, right, so the cell is the inner tube, the serum is the blood, so serum, it’s okay, but we want to see what’s in the inner tube. So red blood cell magnesium’s ideal, we want that greater than 5, 5 or greater and we typically can also use other tests like a nutri eval, or a spectra cell, which is kind of a lymphocyte stimulation test where we can get another intracellular, intracellular window into what those nutrient levels are at, but those kind of your general gist in regards to magnesium and how to test for it. Anything else you want to say about testing, Evan?


Evan Brand: I think you covered it. Did, were there any other questions related, I didn’t have those pulled up.


Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I would just say most we kind of hid a lot of them already. I would say if you’re under more stress, you can’t go wrong taking more magnesium. Magnesium helps facilitate GABA, which helps kind of turn on the parasympathetic nervous system and relaxes you. Some people, if you get too relaxed with magnesium, taking it more at night can be better because then you’re it’s you know you’re gonna go to sleep. So it’s great. So if it’s too sedating for you, take it more at night after work kind of when you’re doing your wind-down routine. It’s a great way to do it, I think, we pretty much hit all on a maj, a lot of major things. B6 is another important cofactor we like with magnesium, because it helps with neurotransmitter synthesis so B6 is really good typically when people are stressed, B vitamins are equally depleted with magnesium because of just how stress works. Magnesium and B vitamins are part of the Krebs and they’re gonna get burnt up when you’re stressed so it’s very possible that you need to be taking a good B complex along with your magnesium just because the stress may be affecting all of those different parts of the metabolic system.


Evan Brand: Good call, good call. All right, I just wrap it up that would, I mean, I mentioned the website, so justinhealth.com, you want to reach out to Justin. Evanbrand.com is my website. And we’ll be back next Monday. I’m sure you’re gonna do something in between now and then, but I’ll be back Monday with you. 


Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent. If you guys like it, thumbs up, hit the subscribe button, hit the bell, give us a share, we love it if you’re enjoying this. Think about friends or family that could benefit as well, and then also put your comments down below. Love to hear what your comments are. This helps guide us in choosing future topics that we want to chat about, so we really want your input. Thanks to everyone. Have a phenomenal day. Take care Evan. See you, bye bye.

Evan Brand: Bye.




Audio Podcast:  


Conventional Medicine to Functional Natural Medicine | Podcast #232

Conventional medicine is a system in which medical professionals treat symptoms in diseases using medicines, or surgery. Functional medicine, on the other hand, is a treatment that focuses on optimizing the functions of the body organs, which involves holistic or alternative medicine.

Today’s podcast guest is Dr. Russell Jaffe. Dr. Jaffe is highly respected in the functional medicine industry. As a physician and scientist who aspired to be comprehensive, objective, empiric and experiential, Dr. Jaffe started his career searching for deeper understanding, wisdom, evidence, and insight in mechanisms of health.

Conventional Medicine to Functional Natural Medicine | Podcast #232

Dr. Russell Jaffe

In this episode, we cover:

00:51  Medical Research to Functional Integrated Nutritional World

10:32  Intermittent Fasting

15:02 Keto Diet

34:15  Importance of Vitamin C

58:56 Importance of Vitamin D


Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey there it’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani. Welcome back to the beyond wellness radio podcast. Today we have a phenomenal guest, we have Dr. Russell Jaffe in the house. Dr. Russell is a Ph.D. MD nine years all at Boston University. One graduation lots of good knowledge there and Dr. Jaffe was really on the conventional medical side. I really want to dive in we’re gonna get his story and how he converted moreover to the functional natural integrative kind of model. Dr. Jaffe runs the perk supplement company, he also runs the company called Elisa Act which does premier testing for food allergens. Dr. Jaffe welcome to the podcast.

Dr. Russell Jaffe: Thanks for having me

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent. Well, let’s just dive in. I want to hear your story and how you went into this mainstream medical research kind of world environment over to the functional kind of integrated more nutritional world. How did that happen?

Dr. Russell Jaffe: Well I was trained in need in academic medicine at Boston University then I matriculated to the National Institutes of Health where I was early on the appointed to the senior staff which is a bit of an indication that my science was acceptable and of course I was skeptical about anything that I didn’t learn in academic medicine in internal medicine in clinical pathology and Laboratory Medicine. In fact, when I heard that Queen Wu, an acupuncturist in Washington DC, could get results that NIH could not get. I went with great skepticism and ended up doing a seven-year apprenticeship with him

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow

Dr. Russell Jaffe: Then I then I heard about yoga and I heard about Dr. Ramamurti Mishra an MD Ph.D. cross-trained in Banaras, wrote the textbook of yoga psychology commentary and Patanjali sutras. I went as a skeptic and I was his acolyte for five years, then I met a Cambodian Buddhist monk named Anti Dharma Aawara and I had the last 30 years of his life from 80 to 110 mostly together

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow that’s amazing

Dr. Russell Jaffe: So, I came as a skeptic but when I… but I was also curious and because I was curious, I went outside my silo I went outside my immediate peer group. Because I can tell you that when I started to bring information about traditional oriental medicine and acupuncture to the National Institutes of Health where it’s practiced today. I can tell you it was met with great indifference and crashing silence. Because these were very smart people who knew that they knew more than anybody else because they were at the NIH and I was you know with them. But I was also outside, curious, finding mentors who had answers, wisdom, traditions that I knew nothing about. You know I mean I knew from nothing. So, I had the time with Queen and with Ramamurti Mishra, Dr. Mishra and with his Cambodian Buddhist monk Anti Dharma, and yes, my world has absolutely turned around if you will. Why? Because I now advocate nature nurture and wholeness, I advocate physiology before pharmacology. I advocate eating what you can digest assimilate and eliminate without immune burden. I can tell you if you get restorative sleep and you keep your neural hormones and balance then gratitude will rise up at least in the springtime when you see the earth renewing itself. So yes, I do think that a functional, integrative, personalized, primary, proactive, predictive, personalized prevention practices is the medicine of the future, and my work is to speed the transition from sick care to health care. Because most people get sick care today, they really don’t get health care. In your clinic they get health care in my world I would like everyone to get health promotion health care preventive, proactive care. But that is a dream today, that is an aspiration. It is also a necessity because the cost of sick care is going to sink the businesses of America. We’re not going to well, let me summarize very quickly who. Uwe Reinhardt, a very famous Princeton health economist. He says, if you just look at the rise of chronic disease today and projected forward a generation or so, everyone’s gonna be in a hospital bed taking care of the person next to them. No one’s gonna be working or paying taxes that’s clearly not a vibrant productive society.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Correct 100%. Now I’m just curious having it’s such a, you know strong conventional background MD, Ph.D. and having to had such an open mind to pull in other modalities and other forms of natural medicine and you know you’re looking at obviously the outcome you’re looking at the effectiveness. What it’s your colleagues think cuz I mean obviously conventional medicine, the allopathic pharmaceutical surgical approach, it tends to rely on not addressing the root cause and it tends to not have a preventative nature to it. So, when you are looking at these natural forms of medicine obviously prevention kind of comes in we’re gonna be talking about predictive tests that can help us look at and assess and maybe prevent some of these things but what did your colleagues think did you feel like they were threatened? And then what was the atmosphere around with just the drug industry? You know cuz that kind of motion one direction.

Dr. Russell Jaffe: Well I can. I’m gonna answer your question but before I answer it, Merck Sharp & Dohme gave me their annual award one time. I got the meritorious Public Health Service Award one year; my work was featured in the New York Times at one time. So, I was not unknown or unrecognized, I got to teach every year because NIH has its own University on topics that I was interested in that I was interested in introduced.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Russell Jaffe: But to answer your question especially about people who have advanced degrees they either come out of what’s called the Decartian Reductionist Mechanistic way of thinking, in which case I will not talk to them because they won’t understand what I’m saying and it probably will be uninteresting or irritating to them. Then there are the people who come out of the Garrettian Rudolf Steiner.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Mmm.

Dr. Russell Jaffe: Before that, there was a theorist as Hoenn half before that you can go all the way back to Mymanatis and Hippocrates. But I will mention that Hippocrates practiced on the island of Kos because the conventional doctors and Athens drove him out of town.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow.

Dr. Russell Jaffe: Because ah was for radical to their beliefs and now, he’s a father of Western medicine

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Unbelievable so they, you did get some accredited you did get some accolades but not enough to incorporate a lot of these things in mainstream medicine. So, there’s still kind of a block.

Dr. Russell Jaffe: Well that’s above my paygrade.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Russell Jaffe: My responsibility at the time was to do my job.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right

Dr. Russell Jaffe: To publish to communicate to inspire to inform to motivate and I’m glad to tell you that many of the people who are skeptical of my enthusiasm at the time have gone on to research in these areas and now they too have come around and an example, a very important example, but it’s just a personal face on this conversation Dr. Tony Lamas, Gervasio Lamas, he is the chairman of Medicine at Mount Sinai Hospital in Miami and he is on the Faculty of Mount Sinai Medical School in New York and he led the tact trial funded by the National Heart Lung and Blood Institute NIH NHLBI he is the superb cardiologist, very conventionally trained, who now has documented the benefits of chelation therapy especially for people with diabetes. And we’re both on the rostrum today, we’re both on the program teaching other doctors. What we find to be the information that inspires us that keeps us younger and I will mention that he and I just got off the elevator just before our interview and he noticed that I had lost 65 pounds and I mentioned

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow.

Dr. Russell Jaffe: I wasn’t going to find them again and I noticed that he had lost some weight. And so we commiserated with each other because it’s not easy to get to your lean weight but you feel so much better your restorative sleep is so much better your digestion so much better your moods are so much better. That from my point of view it’s absolutely worth doing in fact it’s an investment in my future and others have heard this I don’t know if you have, Dr. Justin, but I’m planning to be dancing at 120 and I want you and I want you to be with me.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wonderful. That’s wonderful that’s excellent. Well, also you got your CCN as well so you obviously have it your conventional medical training. When did you go and start learning more about nutrition, in general?

Dr. Russell Jaffe: I actually, I actually helped found the IWCN, I was the program director for the first eight years of the certified clinical nutritionist program, I believe that I have CCN number one.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow so before we dive into some of these predictive markers and I also want to you know get a sense of your background too because you also started a supplement and lab company which I think is very unique as well, but before we go into that, what would you say, give me a breakdown what’s your typical day like breakfast lunch and dinner, how do you spend your day doing a lot of research what’s that day like?

Dr. Russell Jaffe: Well thanks for asking. Here’s my day, I’m kind of a farmer which means I go to bed early, I get up early. I get up usually before dawn and I happen to have a wonderful mattress that I love and I stretch before I fall asleep, I stretch when I get up before I get out of bed, then I kind of check myself then I have a morning shower while the coffee is brewing and I do get organic shade-grown tea buried coffee from a wonderful guy who roasts the beans the day he sends it to you.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wonderful

Dr. Russell Jaffe: And while the coffee is brewing, I take my shower and I stretch again in the shower and I go through a mental checklist to see if there’s any part of my body that really needs help today. Then the next thing I do aside from putting on some clothes usually, is I make sure I’m well hydrated and I am now following a fellow who believes that it is better, in the long run, to take almost all of your calories in just six hours.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mmm so intermittent fasting?

Dr. Russell Jaffe: Yes, you can call this intermittent fasting. I like to think of it as intermittent digestion or…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Russell Jaffe: What is it whatever is the good side of fifth to me fasting is, I don’t want to fast.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Russell Jaffe: I have resistance of the word not in the process but I tell you that my mornings at this point now I know breakfast is the most important meal of the day but please don’t knock me out about this. That’s what I actually do and I’m going to be honest with you.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Russell Jaffe: My mornings I stay hydrated I sip on coffee, I don’t put anything into my coffee there are no extra sweeteners in my home. You’re sweet enough as you are you don’t need to add sugar.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I love it

Dr. Russell Jaffe: And by the middle of the day I’m beginning to feel hungry, and where am I in the middle of the day? I’m at my R&D center in Vienna Virginia which is also my home. So four days a week I get to think write meditate and then I go out in our permaculture biodynamic food forest garden, where my job is to sit and watch the pollinators pollinate and the birds eat the birds, seed. And then my other job is to pick whatever is right for dinner because we like to eat from our land. We have a biodynamic Community Supported Agriculture CSA that we belong to and once a week we get very fresh food. And yes we go to Whole Foods but we only buy things that are whole. In my home, there are very few packages. We don’t need them. There are devices that make it easy to cook things work very well very quickly, yes we have steel cut oats not rolled oats and yes we put them in water or some broth overnight so they pre swell.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Russell Jaffe: I’m trying to think what else for me I often in the evening before bed I have about a half an hour where I get in a warm tub of water that has a cup of Epsom salts and a cup of baking soda that helps detoxify and relax. When I’m in the bath five minutes I do deep abdominal breathing just slow rhythmic breathing if you want to know what abdominal breathing is like watching a baby they all know how to breathe in there happen watch most adults, they under ventilate, they hypo ventilate they have so many traumas growing up that they’re daring to move that’s right they breathe from their chest which is not where the action is it’s these little tiny air sacs called alveoli, I really am a doctor at the that you have to expand your lung so I five minutes of abdominal breathing than 15 minutes of active meditation. My friend Robert Leichtman wrote a book called Active Meditation: The Western Tradition and published around 1976, still in addition highly recommend it and anything that Bob Leichtman has ever written because most of us have days that are structured I have earned and I worked hard to get this didn’t happen overnight but I worked hard to get to the point where I had a team with people that could take care of the day-to-day and in fact it’s better for me to not even interact with that because I’m constantly fixing things that aren’t broken.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Correct.

Dr. Russell Jaffe: But if they if they can’t solve a problem well then it’s mine.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That makes sense.

Dr. Russell Jaffe: Four days a week yeah four days I’m a week I’m at the R&D center in the woods I get eight to ten thousand steps a day in and how do I doing that well I have a hands-free telephone and when I’m talking which I offer them, when I’m talking I’m walking.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That makes sense I have a setup here where I’m on a treadmill at my desk and when I’m sitting I have a like basically it’s called the QB and it’s put by spending on us and you can bike. So I do the same thing

Dr. Russell Jaffe: That’s wonderful.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And just can just curious about protein consumption in fat consumption.

Dr. Russell Jaffe: oh well it’s, first of all, understand that the clear and the recent studies completely support what I’m going to say. The Greek Mediterranean diet is the healthiest diet the next healthiest diet is the Japanese diet. In both cases you take in lots of fresh things in joyful ways with lots of herbs and you have 60% complex carbs, 20%, of calories from fat and 20% of calories from protein now why do I say that, because if you want insulin resistance then go on a low carb high protein high-fat diet. If you want to increase your risk of atrial fibrillation and magnesium deficiency and all the consequences thereof go on a low carb high protein high-fat diet. It’s in vogue it’s called keto I even hear that South Beach is now a modified friendly keto. I don’t know what a friendly keto is. I know it keto, I know a ketoacidosis is it’s called starvation.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Russell Jaffe: You will lose weight if you if you do what Bob Atkins and others recommended for many years which is eat a lot of fat a lot of protein and zero as close to zero carbs as you have… weight but you but your bones will melt.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So what’s your there’s a lot of data coming out from over at Duke University, Eric Westman, a bunch of other Doc’s on the ketogenic kind of template you know they’re modifying it anywhere between 20 or to 50 grams of net carbs typically around thirty thirty net which typically gets you like eight servings of green vegetables a day. What’s your take on that? Because there’s lots of data with less mass…

Dr. Russell Jaffe: The folks that the folks at Duke are doing good folks at Duke are doing good work there is an integrative medicine group at Duke at they’re part of. However, you can call that what you want you can call it a rose or a petunia it remains what it is it’s not ketogenic. Ketogenic means you deprive yourself of carbohydrates and you force your mitochondria cells, the battery of the cell to use fats and amino acids for energy. So what they’re saying is if you’re truly ketogenic you’re in starvation and what I said before applies now what they’re saying is we want to have a best of both, we want you to have the option of more fat and more protein. So we’re gonna cut the carbs half of what I said. So I said 60% not and I’m remember I said no added sugar so that 60% from fiber nuts and seeds and things you have to chew those are the thing and fruits and vegetables which turn out to be associated with long life and good health and depriving yourself of fresh fruits and vegetables I don’t think anyone today who really knows about the true functional nutrition literature as a fellow of the American College of Nutrition as someone who was on the National Nutrition Consortium appointed by Mildred Seelig at ACN today. I can tell you for sure that the Greek Mediterranean diet is associated with the healthiest long life and the best energetic mood stability symptom reduction from diet alone. Now it’s not it’s more than diet, of course, it’s what you eat and drink it’s what you think and but in regard to eating and drinking with respect to the folks that do they’re trying to take a very overlooked problem identify it and find a solution by splitting the difference. As someone who is in academic medicine, I can tell you I’m splitting the differences often what’s done but it rarely turns out to be very helpful.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: When you say splitting the difference do you mean just instead of consuming zero carbohydrate kind of like a carnivore diet they’re doing essentially you know six to eight servings of green vegetables keeping the net below 30. Is that will you mean by splitting the difference?

Dr. Russell Jaffe: Yes I’m saying that the healthiest diet is 60% complex carbohydrates, 60% lots of fiber, 20% from protein, 20% from fat in which they’re very nicely…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Would you customize the carbs if you have a patient that’s coming in with a let’s just say elevation in fasting insulin let’s say greater than 10 or at 15 or a functional or a glucose tolerance that stays up high 2, 3 hours after a meal. Would you make exceptions to cut the carbs lower if you’re dealing with those patients?

Dr. Russell Jaffe: If you want to reduce hemoglobin A1c if you want to improve glucose-insulin ratio, if you want to improve Homa which we studied in our diabetes outcome study which we talked about if you want. But if you want to optimize any of those parameters as you should. You must keep the fat less than 20% of calories, and you must have at least forty to a hundred grams of unprocessed fiber in your diet daily. That means 60% from complex carbs, 20% from fat, 20% from protein. Now if you include seeds and nuts if you include seeds and nuts you get healthy oils but remember that as soon as you remove the oil from the seed or them but, the protective factors are gone and now you have something that air is the enemy now and so there are no edible oils in my house. We cook with broth, we cook with wine, we cook with juice, we cook with foods that are wet. We like wet foods we started all of our meals with something wet and warm. That Americans but it’s a makeover that adds years to life in life to years.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Now you talked about 20 wouldn’t… go ahead.

Dr. Russell Jaffe: No I was just trying to kind of guild that point which is I had insulin resistance when I weighed 65 pounds more than I did now.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Russell Jaffe: I can tell you the last the last two hemoglobin tests on myself for 4.5% and the best outcome goal value is less than 5% and even a little bit about five and you begin losing years on the far end but losing quality of life today. It’s a bad proposition.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting.

Dr. Russell Jaffe: We need it turns out we need a lot of fiber we also need a lot of probiotic good bugs and then we need a lot of nutrients that come from things like fruits and vegetables. Especially healthy fruits and vegetable.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Russell Jaffe: To me today the minimum is organic I prefer biodynamic and actually, I would prefer to grow it myself if I quit.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s amazing. Now you talked about having the fact go higher that causes insulin resistance. What’re the mechanisms? We know fat doesn’t really have much of an insulin genic response I mean you have some with protein more with carbs. So what’s the mechanism of fat getting higher and causing more insulin and just to be clear right, we want to draw a line between you know process kind of more rancid omega-6 or more trans-fat right and then we kind of have our healthier saturated fats in the category coconut oil maybe gear butter and then, of course, we have our unsaturated avocado, olive oil, those kinds of things.

Dr. Russell Jaffe: Let me jump in on that and just just to make a very important point. EVO, extra-virgin olive oil is a fraud waiting to be revealed.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay let’s hear it yeah why.

Dr. Russell Jaffe: Yeah well why because my family I went to Tuscany at the time when you harvest olives and you bring them and overnight they grind very slowly on this grinding wheel you know this is a stone wheel and one comes out is dark green and viscous and delicious and they eat it there and they love it there and you can buy it commercially. What you buy and this is actually what happened we stayed there all night in the morning there was this mountain of spent olive mash outside the building, and this big truck from Bartoli comes by and I say what’s happening and they say, Oh hahaha Portola is going to take our spent olive mash and the first time they process it they’re gonna call it EVO.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it.

Dr. Russell Jaffe: So it’s a fraud waiting to happen. Ghee, on the other hand, can be liquid sunshine Beatrice from hunter wrote about that many years ago but remember the ghee comes from the cow and if that was a healthy cow that’s fine. But most ghee is contaminated with the products at the cow ate including glyphosate, including lead and mercury and… I okay and and now if you want to make a fondue and you want to use some organic grapeseed oil a few drops, I will not tear it out of your hand in fact there is i feel to show you I’m not totally consistent there is a small bottle of grapeseed oil and we made fondue with it. If you tell me you have organic peanut oil and you want to do a stir-fry, I’m killing a few drops of organic peanut oil in a wok or a cast iron pan, it’s fine.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s okay.

Dr. Russell Jaffe: But most of the oil should come from Whole Foods seeds and nuts. The complex carbs are what regulate a slow uptake from the gut of sugar and the minerals that are necessary to process the sugar so that you actually enhance insulin functionality by having a lot of fiber in the diet. Now let’s flip to the other side let’s slip to the other side. Assuming that you will agree with me that you’re sweet enough as you are and therefore you don’t need any added sugar.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I totally hear that.

Dr. Russell Jaffe: Now most now most of the studies that the people have cited included sugar and complex carbs as carbs. Sorry, that’s not fair look at the diet studies that use Whole Foods as their source of carbs. They got the best insulin resistance below 20% of fat from calorie… fat as source of calories, less than 20% of calories from that. Now, why is that? It turns out the more fat you take the more rigid are the membranes of your cells and it’s a little complicated biochemistry but trust me I’m not making this up. When the cell membrane itself this is the wrapper around the cell this is a very important packaging but very dynamic of thing membrane when that membrane becomes more rigid the fit between insulin and the insulin receptor becomes less efficient, and you develop insulin resistance but since your…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Doesn’t that membrane get more rigid more with trans-fats though then or like vs higher quality omega 3s or higher quality saturated there’s no difference in that? mm-hmm.

Dr. Russell Jaffe: Well let’s go back to the trans-fat comment. Kumar Kumaroh and Marianne showed in the late 70s early 80s, trans fats should not be part of the human diet, trans-fats should be out of your diet it’s not hard today because even the companies that used to advocate for them agree the trans fats bad bad bad yes trans fats do make rigid membranes but they’re bad and suggestible. Now stearic acid saturated fats are more rigid unsaturated fats are more flexible and fluid. You want to have more EPA DHA as omega-3, but you want it from a source that was distilled under nitrogen to remove the toxic metals and to avoid air oxidation damage of the delicate EPA DHA then you need enough magnesium in your body because magnesium acts as an antioxidant to protect the EPS, the unsaturated fats when they’re in trend.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting, now when you talk about some of these fish oils how much does it matter if it’s a triglyceride or an ethyl ester what’s your opinion on that?

Dr. Russell Jaffe: In my opinion on that is that there are two points of view, one advocated by company a and the other advocated by company b. There are virtues to both what is critical from my point of view is that the distillation of the oil whether it be a triglyceride an ethyl ester or not, that the distillation be under nitrogen.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Nitrogen is important is that preventive grantee oxygenation doesn’t happen essentially.

Dr. Russell Jaffe: To prevent what will be irreversible oxidative damage to the delicate essential fats that you are interested in it yes so you must have still under nitrogen and then you want to take the traction that has the most EPA DHA of course, and now you want to micellize that in a soft jell because that will protect it until you swallow it and the micellized little droplets get into the body easier because it’s not easy to take up either the triglyceride or the ethyl ester you need some bile you need a gall bladder that works and as I started to say what’s really important is the quality of the EPA DHA because you can make a case on both sides, which means we really don’t know the answer yet.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And of course like you know you run a supplement company so we, you’re going out and you’re trying to find a person that to buy raw material offered there are obviously different tiers right you can go and buy cheaper stuff like you would maybe the equivalent of a burger at your local McDonald’s or you can choose the high quality grass-fed organic beef at your local farmer correct, so you’ve different options on your keys…

Dr. Russell Jaffe: The reason that Park Integrative Health the reason that Park was founded in 1987 was because I wanted to use pharmaceutical quality and above raw materials all the time. And I was told by people who knew better that our cost of goods was going to be so high than I would have a hobby and not a business. So I did something that some people do which is I took the marketing budget and I put it into the cost of goods I put it into the quality of the bottom the quality of our service and we’ve grown quite a nice business, thank you, over service without having more than a few dollars for marketing. Because you’ll never see a sports celebrity endorsing a Park product but if you take a Park product, you’ll feel the difference because if you use the higher quality raw materials and you put them together so that it’s only active ingredients all the time which is something we pioneered. Now you have a safer, more effective form that when you study it as we have in community-based outcome studies delivers feel the difference results and as you know we have an unconditional guarantee because we trust people to feel the difference that Park approach that is use the highest quality and monitor it very carefully, because people will promise the moon and deliver modified dog poop.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Make sense. And then with your a fish oil what’s your opinion do you like the triglyceride, or the ethyl does it matter and then what’s the difference is to kind of put it in in layman’s terms.

Dr. Russell Jaffe: Well right see the difference is that eventually these delicate fats are going to get into a membrane as part of a triglyceride, and a triglyceride is three carbons, that’s the backbone and coming off of each of those carbons is a long chain called a fatty acid. Now the two position there’s one two three the middle position the tube position of the triglyceride is the source for your cytokines thromboxanes and prostaglandins it’s really important so if you put a racemic acid in there or you put it on mega six fatty acids in there you’ve got a completely different response than if you put in EPA or a DHA in there. So in that sense, you would think the triglycerides are better. But it turns out that the body is going to deconstruct and reconstruct a triglyceride so that’s not so critical and the ethyl ester, not the methyl ester ever the ethyl ester is easily taken up it has better bioavailability so if you say to me this is a person with a perfectly healthy gallbladder, across the coin both of them are okay.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent.

Dr. Russell Jaffe: If your bile from your gallbladder is limited, well then you should have the ethyl ester.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And then when you’re producing the product what’s the how are you preventing the oxidation from happening outside. I’m just keeping the temperature down. Are you putting like a rosemary antioxidant, how are you keeping it stable?

Dr. Russell Jaffe: Well when I said, first of all, there’s a pharmaceutical-grade fish oil company.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You’re choosing a good quality right?

Dr. Russell Jaffe: No I’m choosing way above a good quality, the best food-grade right right right so there is food grade which you can think of as floor sweet. Then there is quality grade we can think of as better than floor sweet things. Once you get up to American Chemical Society to reagent grade to pharmaceutical grade and above, now you’re at a different level. You’re dealing with different companies you do different they provide different kinds of documentation you do we do third-party pros production testing on all our products because even though we trust our suppliers verified by President Reagan used to say Rastenburg.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly yeah that makes sense.

Dr. Russell Jaffe: So what happens is the fish oil is distilled under nitrogen the middle fraction the concentrate EPA DHA is basically put into a sealed container, it then goes to the place where it’s going to be micellized into the soft gel where it is immediately and without any exposure to oxygen, put into tiny droplets that are easily taken up from your gut. And by the way, you don’t get the burping and the comeback that most officials have you can bite into this fish oil soft gel and you’ll find it very delicate because it’s not rancid.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting and then if you consume, so if you were to consume rancid omega-3s you essentially have more lipid peroxidation correct.

Dr. Russell Jaffe: You would have more lipid peroxidation and it would be a member of studies there have been several studies recently that said, oh we thought fish oils were good but they’re not really good. And if you look at them carefully these were people taking fish shows made in oxygen fish oils that were rancid and should, in my opinion, should not be consumed.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: is that just robbing from your antioxidant reserves it’s sucking up more vitamin C what’s it doing in your body?

Dr. Russell Jaffe: Well it’s doing several levels of harm yes you’re right when you start with something that’s damaged and oxidized than the body has to use antioxidants which is protective but he has to use antioxidants in order to somehow get the oxygen off the molecule that has it. Because when you put oxygen on a molecule like a fat, it’s like putting a hand grenade on the fat. When that oxygen comes off the recoil energy is going to be so high that you’re going to break the membrane of the cell you’re going to damage the cell that’s a bad thing. And now you have a molecule that kind of fits in where an omega-3 or omega-6 should you know triglyceride in a membrane, but it doesn’t have the right shape. It’s got this big extra oxygen on. So peroxides are bad epoxides are bad anything that robs your antioxidants are bad and most people need help with their antioxidants so anything you can do to preserve to enhance the function of your antioxidants like ascorbate. Is to your benefit and anything you do that depletes your antioxidants it’s the opposite.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent and what does that do to your cell membrane? Is it making the cell membrane more inflexible?

Dr. Russell Jaffe: It’s not only making it more inflexible when the oxygen comes off the recoil energy is so high you actually break the membrane and very often the cell is killed.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow I really appreciate your biochem background it really helps and I know you’re also famous for doing a vitamin C calibration. Can you talk about the vitamin C calibration and who can benefit from that?

Dr. Russell Jaffe: Right so let’s talk about the C calibration also known as the C cleanse and the reason that we focus on a ascorbate, known as vitamin C it’s really an antioxidant does not think of it as a vitamin A vitamin is something you need a little love to activate enzyme catalyst. Albertsons Georgy pointed out that ascorbate is as important to survival as light and oxygen. When you’re that important you’re kind of really important and the end the next question has to be, well how much, how much should I take. Now Linus Pauling famously said 9 grams then he said 18 grams and I got to ask him why he said 18 grams and he said because doctors are so dumb they could only remember a number and if I say it long enough then they’ll remember and I said but doctor timing shouldn’t it be individualized he said of course but doctors aren’t smart enough for that. I think people consumers are and I think that people aren’t a functional integrative and holistic medicine are and so the C calibration the C cleanse means that every 15 minutes you take a certain amount like a gram and a half, three grams, six grams, every 15 minutes and notice I said grams, not milligrams. But of course, you use fully buffered fully reduced l-ascorbic nature’s form is l-ascorbic you want to fully reduced not the partially reduced fully reduced and by the way our source of ascorbic is fermented. It’s done by natural fermentation but under a nitrogen blanket so that during the production of the ascorbate, which is triply recrystallized under nitrogen which is it’s a challenge but it now gives you nature’s form in a concentrated way. And then we have a balance of minerals potassium, calcium, magnesium, and zinc you need all of them in a proportion so if you need one gram 10 grams or a hundred grams you still get the minerals that help the ascorbate come in and help it work.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And so what’s the goal how high do you go up to and then do you ramp down how does the whole process work and why should people be looking for symptom was.

Dr. Russell Jaffe: Well what they’re gonna do is once a week they’re gonna check their C calibration they’re gonna do it by taking the ascorbate every 15 minutes until they cleanse, until they have an enema from within, until they have a flush something so unique that until you’ve had it you don’t understand it but once you’ve had it once you know what I’m talking about. So you rapidly get toxic matter and fluid pumped into the rectum and evacuated from the tosh that’s why I meant by an enema from within. They do that once a week we do that once a week now in between you take 50 to 75 percent, so let’s say it took 10 grams to cleanse, you take between five and seven and a half grams. I recommend that people start at 50 percent and move up to 75 percent over time. You do the cleanse every week because the amount you need will likely go up over some period of time as you overcome the repair deficit that your body has accumulated for years or decades, and when you finally get to Plateau which means for four consecutive weeks your cleanse is the same amount. Now you know the amount you need on a daily basis, you’re taking three quarters of the amount to do that cleanse and you keep doing that until you get bulky or lose your stool indicating that repair has finally completed and now you do ramp down see now you check it once a week as you need less and less. And the goal is to need less than four grams, and when we checked about 4,200 people that reported their C cleanse. The people who are asymptomatic and healthy cleanse on four grams or less. They’re people who had just a few symptoms cleansed on four to ten grams the average person cleansed on ten to a hundred grams and there are people who need well over a hundred grams which is a hundred thousand milligrams to cleanse but it is safe and for it is safer for people to do this because the amount of oxidative damage, the amount of oxidative toxic material, the amount of nutrient-deficient oxidative processed foods that people are taking in the stress of high tech living has dramatically increased the amount of ascorbate that people need, ascorbate is the mother or maternal antioxidant that sacrifices herself so that all the other antioxidants can be regenerated and protected. so ascorbate is the critical one to test and the c cleanse is the way to find out how much you as individual mean.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So essentially just to kind of recap at your doing about one teaspoon of the L ascorbate reduced powder which is about 3 grams 3,000 milligrams every 15 minutes or you’re taking more of it and you’re trying to get to a place of bowel tolerance where you’re essentially you’ve saturated your bowels or saturated your vitamin C stores and now the stools start to get loose and that number may be higher in the beginning and as your vitamin C levels get more repleted, or topped off so to speak, then that threshold to move the bowels as you said drops. Is that correct?

Dr. Russell Jaffe: Well no let me clarify my friend Bob Cathcart introduced bowel tolerance. It has a fatal flaw. The fatal flaw of bowel tolerance is you creep up on the amount you need as opposed to the cleanse where you rapidly ramp up.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So you’re doing degree increments though right teaspoon 3 gram 50 minutes.

Dr. Russell Jaffe: No let me say again what I said before. If you’re really healthy if you’re really healthy you use 1/2 a teaspoon which is a gram and a half.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Gram and a half got it

Dr. Russell Jaffe: Right if you’re a typical person you do use a teaspoon which is 3 grams but many people there are many people who need 2 teaspoons which is 6 grams and they need it for hours and if you do 6 grams for 4 times in an hour that’s 24 grams if you do that for two hours that’s 48 grams. Most people will cleanse in that time the idea is to rapidly saturate the body with the ascorbic so that the ascorbate can energize the rectum which is really from the kidney embryologically and pump toxic matter and extra water in to the rectum and that would come whooshing out flushing out cleansing up.  So yes it’s the same idea, but it’s the next generation after bowel tolerance it’s the C cleanse or the C calibration. And it really depends on how well you are. If you’re really well you don’t need that much but if you’re a typical American, even 3 grams and I just had a someone contact me about this they took 3 grams every 15 minutes for 5 hours.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s a significant amount.

40:45 Yes sir, but if they had done six grams they would have flushed and calibrated but after five hours what they proved was they had a lot of oxidative burdens and they need a lot of ascorbic. So you really do, I really recommend that folks read the literature that we have, this is free to download online, you can look up C cleanse, you can look up joy of living the alkaline way or alcohol a guide, and we want folks to help them we want to help people understand themselves so they can do it smoothly, efficiently, and generally within a couple of hours. So I personally do my cleanses on the weekend and I can cleanse within a couple of hours. But often we hear from colleagues that people try say a teaspoon and that means three grams every 15 minutes, that means 12 grams an hour, but they need 70 grams to cleanse and it’s gonna take them more time than they’re willing to take and. I don’t think it should be your whole day you shouldn’t be sneak on waiting for a cleanse the whole day.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So if that’s the case, could you go up in tablespoon increments if you wanted to go faster?

Dr. Russell Jaffe: Well understand that you want something close to an isotonic iso-osmotic beverage so when you go to 6 grams or 2 teaspoons, you’re now talking about at least eight ounces.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I see.

Dr. Russell Jaffe: And if you go and if you go above that you might go to 12 or 16 ounces, most people don’t want to drink that much.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I see.

Dr. Russell Jaffe: I have no I have no objection to that. I’m just saying that I don’t make it too concentrated and don’t make it too dilute, you don’t want hypotonic, you don’t want hypertonic. You want as close to isotonic as you can get and that’s why what we recommend is as the upper dose is the two teaspoons in 8 ounces. Could be water could be your herbal beverage could be a juice that you diluted one to one with water. And by the way, some people find if they take the recycled glutamine or they take a dose of magnesium and choline citrate or they take a dose of the digestive guard before the cleanse. That things go more smoothly and more easily.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent and I’m just trying to wrap my head around what the difference between this cleanse and just typical bowel tolerance by vitamin C. Is it because it’s in the L ascorbate reduced form with the minerals, does that make it different? What’s happening is different.

Dr. Russell Jaffe: Well Bob has gotten himself recommended sodium L ascorbate and he did that because he knew that ascorbic acid would pull the dentin the calcium out of the teeth you know so you don’t know use ascorbic acid. He didn’t want to use a synthetic form and I agree with him on that, but what he said is you just keep taking it until you feel until you until your poop. That’s called bowel tones. Here’s here’s the fatal flaw with bowel tolerance and I spoke with Bob about this and he agreed with it was a very honest guy. When you do bowel tolerance, you have a very high probability that if you have a long transit time long digestive transit time as many Americans do, that you will recirculate toxic matter throughout your body and feel worse in contrast with the C cleanse you quickly ramp up, saturate the ascorbate throughout every cell of your body, and then pump the toxic matter and the extra fluid into the rectum, and it comes out quickly, and you don’t get the recirculation of toxic matter. People don’t want to feel worse on the way to feeling better.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well you motivated me. I’m gonna go pick some up and do my own vitamin C calibration very soon. Excellent. So let’s transition the conversation you talked about there eight predictive markers for your health to kind of give a window kind of your check engine light so to speak to see how you’re functioning in an optimal perspective. So let’s just kind of break down those eight markers briefly and let’s do a quick little blurb on each of them, so what’s number one?

Dr. Russell Jaffe: Well yes. Now with regard to predictive biomarkers, we reviewed hundred-thousand lab tests because we wanted to know what covers epigenetics and epigenetics is everything that’s not genetics. Epigenetics is everything you can influence with your lifestyle. It turns out to be really important, it’s 92 percent of your life Steinhaus epigenetics influences your genes, your genes are not a fixed blueprint they’re rather dynamically acted upon and modified by your habits of daily living, and your habits of daily living are summarized epigenetics and there are eight of these tests and I’d like to go through them and I’d like to point out what’s unique about our interpretation. And some of these are familiar, hemoglobin a1c. And the best outcome goal value is less than 5%. Now today if you ask most diabetologist, most doctors who specialize in diabetes don’t tell you that they don’t want to know the fasting glucose they don’t want to know the fasting insulin, the 2-hour postprandial. They want to know the hemoglobin a1c. It’s the average sugar stuck on to your hemoglobin protein over three or four months. So it’s a very good average risk predictor, it’s an oil cause morbidity mortality predictor, it predicts whether you want to live ten or more years pretty accurately, and the goal that is less than 5%. Now the second test is high sensitivity c-reactive protein, HSCRP, and you do need the high sensitivity version. Pointed out that while c-reactive protein is a good measure of acute inflammation, the more common chronic repair deficit which is what inflammation really is it’s really repaired deficit, that can be measured with a high sensitivity c-reactive protein known as HSCRP and that should be less than 0.5.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Is that the same as the cardiac CRP? I think it’s the same, right?

Dr. Russell Jaffe: Yes yes sir yes sir. Originally Read Crew who is a cardiologist thought that the high sensitivity test was cardio specific, and it’s sometimes referred to as the cardiac CRP

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That helps.

Dr. Russell Jaffe: And yes, yes no I’m glad you brought that up. It is it’s not cardiac-specific, but it is sometimes called cardiac CRP and it is the high sensitivity or the HS CRP that we want and the best outcome goal value is less important

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I see a lot of patients that want the HS CRP but their lab whether it’s a quest or LabCorp only has the cardiac and from what I’ve seen like you just said it’s the same thing.

Dr. Russell Jaffe: Oh same thing same thing yeah. So the next test the third test in the sequence is known as homocysteine. This is a plasma test and you must process especially within 30 minutes or the lab shouldn’t even run it, but a plasma homocysteine predicts atherosclerosis and cardiovascular disease, almost better than any other single marker and when you combine the predictive biomarkers the way we do you’ve covered all of your cardiovascular risks and you notice what’s in here and what’s not in here we can talk about what’s not in here at the end. So the next test is your immune tolerance task. Oh sorry, the homocysteine should be less than 6 the homocysteine should be less than six. And that, yes homocysteine should be less than 6 again don’t pay any attention to the lab range healthy people have a homocysteine less than 6, they have a high methionine, a low homocysteine they are protected from cardiovascular disease and they can methylate which is a very important function for moving things around in your body. So homocysteine value less than 6 on the plasma properly done specially

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And if that level is on the higher side what nutrients should we add in to help bring that down? Assuming a diet and lifestyles good.

Dr. Russell Jaffe: Yes well you’d be surprised actually how much B complex including folate, how much magnesium and choline citrate, how much betaine hydrochloride known as trimethylglycine people need in order to keep a healthy homocysteine, and you can look at all these cycles if you want because I’m a biochemist and I do it in my sleep. But the bottom line is you need at least a super B complex, you need folate probably milligrams a day, you need trimethylglycine at least 250 milligrams a day, you need enough ascorbate to protect and two other antioxidants, and with that and with enough magnesium and choline citrate to activate your ATP, you too can have a low homocysteine a nice high methionine.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting and they just the back story for everyone listening they can look at it here is Kilmer McCully who was a Harvard researcher that discovered the homeless cysteine atherosclerosis link. Was basically laughed out of Harvard me 10 20 years ago in this discovery, but now it’s becoming mainstream and its even part of your predictive markers for overall health.

Dr. Russell Jaffe: Kilmer published in 1967 when I was a young scientist in Boston, I knew him then. He went to the VA and distinguished research career but you’re right he got left by other parties. He was right and he was right, and they were in it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep interesting.

Dr. Russell Jaffe: Now the fourth test is the immune tolerance test known as LRA, lymphocyte response assay. Lymphocytes are specialized white cells, and they respond to things that are foreign and harmful, but they don’t respond to neutralizing and helpful things. So you want an LRA the LRA by ELISA/ACT is what we recommend and the goal is to have no intolerance is to be completely tolerant in your immune system, and healthy people with a healthy digestion and a healthy intake of the nutrients they need. The few of them that we found too are asymptomatic tend to have no reactions out of hundreds and hundreds of substances that we can now accurately measure on one ounce of blood, as long as it gets to us within a couple of days.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Now with that test, how is that different than your typical food allergy IgG your IgA. Is it companies out there like Everly Wells a big one you see on Facebook all the time which I think is looking more IgG IgA? How is that different from that typical you know food allergy that’s more antibody based?

Dr. Russell Jaffe: The antibody tests were developed in the 1950s, they were outmoded in the 1980s, they’re still offered by most labs because they’re easy to do and impossible to interpret. So when you get an IgG antibody result, you have to ask yourself. Is this a beneficial neutralizing helpful antibody or is this a complement fixing harmful antibody? You can’t tell.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So essentially with the ELISA/ACT, you’re looking at the lymphocytes and you’re able to see if there’s a t-cell kind of mediated response to these foods specifically? Is that how you look more specifically?

Dr. Russell Jaffe: Yes. The innovation that we brought to immunology was the first amplified procedure done on the surface of a white so-called a lymphocyte. And the novelty is that we can do reproducible tests that is less than 3% variance. So we do a functional cell culture more precisely than a physical chemistry lab measures an antibody, and the point you made that you jump to is correct. More important than b-cell antibodies and more important than distinguishing helpful from harmful b-cell antibodies are the t-cell responses which you can only get cell culture, only get from a cell culture.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So the IgG and IgA, that’s more B cell-mediated and…

Dr. Russell Jaffe: Hundred percent. Not more these cells make antibodies

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Antibodies, correct.

Dr. Russell Jaffe: B cells make antibodies through specialized antibody factories called plasma cells. When you do physical chemistry, say hi GG or any antibody measurement, and I don’t care if you used a cooked antigen, I don’t care if you use a freeze-dried antigen, I don’t care if you used an aerosolized antigen, I’m telling you if you’re measuring antibodies you’re doing old-fashioned physical chemistry and you can’t interpret whether it’s good or bad and since you don’t know the function and you need to know the function I say don’t do tests that are intrinsically incapable of giving you the information you need. And then the point you made is well made which is T cells are more important than the antibodies, and you get nothing about the T cells when all you’re doing is old-fashioned physical chemistry. So we outmoded this in the 1980s we have over eighty thousand cases in our database, we’ve done over twenty-five million cell cultures, we published more outcome peer-reviewed studies that show the benefit of this approach when it was applied just by people living their lives. But as you said a lifestyle program, a program to add life to years and years to life, and we’re more excited today than ever because the data continues to come in that we have an advanced approach. It’s part of this predictive biomarkers suite of advanced interpretations and I’m glad to tell you that we at the Health Studies Collegium have been able to pioneer much of this validate it to the satisfaction of our most difficult critics and now make it available to colleagues and consumers.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very good. Now your test for this is the Elisa act biotechnology test now I’m just curious though. Is the liza the same thing as the enzyme-linked immunosorbent assay test? Or is that just kind of a play on words there.

Dr. Russell Jaffe: No no it’s very specifically Elisa act, which is the coming together what you said Elisa, with a CT Advance cell culture technique

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay so it’s combining it. Okay.

Dr. Russell Jaffe: So it’s the first time, first time that an amplified procedure was done, not with a sandwich assay like a conventional Elisa introduced by Bursa Aiello in 1953, back then this is using a lymphocyte enzyme that when the cell is resting, when it doesn’t see anything that it reacts against, the enzymes turned off. Because this is the same enzyme that turns the cell on when it needs to go through mitosis and reproduce itself. We were fortunate enough to figure out the specific kinase at the MHC locus for those of you who are super technical. The antigen presenting cell in this autologous ex vivo cell culture wiggles over to thelymphocyte presents the processed antigen at the MHC locus turns on the kinase we see the results of that. This is the bringing together for the first time I’ll be Liza, just as you said and cell culture.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting so you’re able to get the antibody response from that, the IgG IgA IgM, you’re able to get the immune complexes, and then you’re also able to look at that the t-cell activation there too, all three

Dr. Russell Jaffe: Exactly right C lymphocytes are smart enough that they will only react to harmful antibodies. So we get the meaningful harmful antibodies and we ignore the helpful neutralizing antibodies and then yes, we get the immune complexes which is IgM anti-ag G antigen and most importantly we get the T cell reactions.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent, very good. What’s the next marker?

Dr. Russell Jaffe: Yes, the next marker, the fifth one is measuring the pH or the acid alkaline state of your urine after rest. It turns out after six or more hours that the urine and the bladder equilibrate with the bladder lining cells and now you get once a day a measurement of cellular metabolic status. And if you lack magnesium, you have metabolic acidosis if you have enough magnesium you have a healthy happy cell. Why is that so important? Well magnesium is not just an electrolyte that balances calcium you need one molecule of magnesium for every ATP molecule to do any work in your cell. You need magnesium to activate your mitochondria so you can get the toxins detoxified. You need magnesium to activate hundreds maybe thousands of enzyme catalyst. You need magnesium to protect essential fat’s in transit, magnesium is nature’s calcium channel blocker. The problem has been that until very recently magnesium has been notoriously hard to get in, it tends to run out as soon as it comes in, and therefore it’s been forgotten. Now what we did was find out how to make inverted micellar nanodroplets, so you combine ionized magnesium salts with choline citrate and now you get enhanced update and chaperone delivery to the cells we’re hungry for it. So now we should remember magnesium.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wonderful, excellent. What’s the next marker.

Dr. Russell Jaffe: Well the goal value from pH is 6.5 to 7.5 if you’re below that you’re too acid and you need more magnesium if you’re consistently above 7.5 it might be catabolic illness and that’s something you don’t want but we could talk about later.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And we want like we want the urine though the saliva it doesn’t quite matter

Dr. Russell Jaffe: No no urine urine and the reason we want the urine is because that’s what we standardized, but more importantly if you put a Kirby Cup, if you put a little plastic discover your parotid gland in your mouth and you collect pure parotid saliva you two can measure the pH of that. But having had that done to me when Frank Oppenheimer was a postdoc and meet at some subjects, very true people will do that. What we call saliva or spit it’s a combination of gingival fluid zero sanguinis exudate some saliva sub submandibular some parotid, it turns out that saliva is not what you think it is. At least not in most Americans mouths and and talk to the dentist. There are very few Americans that have a healthy mouth.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And then with the urine, are we testing first morning urination, or they can be another example?

Dr. Russell Jaffe: No no no there’s only one time of day. You can only get a meaningful measure after six hours of rest. So when after six hours at rest the next urine… yes, and you by the way during those six hours you can go to the bathroom and go back to bed. You just can’t go to the gym or the kitchen

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it, because you’re gonna create acid byproducts on your muscle activation.

Dr. Russell Jaffe: And other than after those six hours of rest, there are somewhere between 20 and 40 variables that influence urine ph at any random time

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That totally makes sense.

Dr. Russell Jaffe: Right the next measurement, the next measurement is vitamin D, specifically what’s called 25 hydroxy D but if you just ask for a vitamin D that’s what they’re gonna do. Now there are three forms of vitamin D and there are some experts who say measure all three of them. I do not advocate that, partly for cost and partly for practicality. So if you think there is something wrong with the way their kidneys are processing vitamin D or their liver is processing vitamin D then you might want to do all three different what are called isomers. In general you want the 25 hydroxy d and the goal value is 50 to 80. Now there was recently an article in New York Times, and a very distinguished science writer says, almost everyone in America is low in vitamin D it’s normal to be low in vitamin D so don’t even measure vitamin D and don’t supplement. Now did you understand what I just said it do you understand how silly that is?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely yes okay absolutely.

Dr. Russell Jaffe: Let me clarify for everybody, because I know you know this, but when vitamin D is below 20, well of course your bones are gonna fall apart, but more importantly you just tripled or quadrupled your cancer risk.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly.

Dr. Russell Jaffe: And you probably tripled your cardiovascular risk. Because vitamin D we call it a vitamin, it’s actually a neurohormone. It actually regulates cell division; it does a whole lot of things and we know in my opinion the best outcome goal value 50 to 80 the vitamin D council I believe says 40 to 70 but that’s close to 50 to 80. And the ranges that we have said were the values that we have said give you a certain latitude. So if you take a little bit too much vitamin D, and you get up to 90 or 100 I have no concerns. So when I say 50 to 80 I don’t mean that 81 is a problem, I’m saying the safer range that we know to be effective and protect you from the profound chronic illnesses 50 to 80. And how much vitamin D do you take? How much vitamin D do you take? Well as much as you need to get into the 50 to 80 range.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah as much as you need.

Dr. Russell Jaffe: And I take and I prefer for people to take drops under the tongue, so they can absorb, well that’s a turkey word be careful of that but drops under the tongue before you swallow them are easily taken up and many many people over forty million according to my colic. Over forty-million Americans don’t absorb vitamin D from their gut. They’ve got to take it up they’ve got to take it up.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting

Dr. Russell Jaffe: From their mouth

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah Hollen he’s also he’s also a researcher over ABU as well right at your alma mater?

Dr. Russell Jaffe: that’s where I met Mike Hollen.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay he’s been there for a long time right. 34 years.

Dr. Russell Jaffe: About that he’s developed the fundamental methods in vitamin D research he’s known as dr. sunshine.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah absolutely now I’m seeing some people online they’re pushing back a little bit cuz we have vitamin d3 the pre-vitamin D we make on the ski. Somebody hits it that cholesterol I think goes through our liver and gets forming the 25 hydroxyvitamin D, which is calcidiol and then calcidiol hits the kidneys and gets converted to calcitriol. So more people I’m seeing are saying hey we had a measure calcitriol or that the vitamin D that’s activated to the kidneys and they say there should be like one to one ratio on the d3 the 25 hydroxy versus the 125 which is the calcitriol. What’s your opinion on that having that one-to-one or the 125 is?

Dr. Russell Jaffe: Having spoken to 12 different world’s experts and their opinions matter and mine doesn’t cause vitamins not my particular expertise. I can tell you they each have a different opinion. With respect to what your folks, were saying if you have the resources and you want to have the maximum useful information. Then at least you would measure the 25 hydroxy and the 125 hydroxy.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it.

Dr. Russell Jaffe: But you might want to measure the precursor as well. If you’re going to do that, but I will offer to most people for home the value proposition including how much is this going to cost…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Russell Jaffe: Leads me to conclude for most people to start with 25 hydroxy D. No disrespect on the question but just start with 25 hydroxy D bring people into the 50 to 80 nanogram per ml range. Then if you have any question or if you want to just be a more scientific and evidence-based practitioner, when you get them into range then measure and see if you have a one-to-one ratio.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And what if there’s not was it would there be something you would do specifically. I know some data says you should give resveratrol to help with that some today it can be an infection kind of thing. What’s your take on why that may be skewed we’re 25 is higher and 125 is lower?

Dr. Russell Jaffe: Well you raise several very good points. My friend happens to own resveratrol globally and I can tell you they’re going out of the resveratrol business because resveratrol tall has very low bioavailability. It is a polyphenolic it is in red wine, especially granule red wine. However, because it is very low bioavailability, which means very low solubility. When you give it in the doses that people have tried to give it, you end up irritating the gut and irritating the immune system. So we have for a long time at least the last 25 years advocated the safer more effective polyphenolics and activate your innate immune system and do many wonderful things for you. And that’s quercetin dihydrate as the flavonoid, and soluble OPC ortho proanthocyanidins for the chemists as the flavonol, because you need flavonoids and flavonols. These are the colorful compounds in foods but almost all of them in high doses are mutagenic which means oncogenic which means promote cancer because they have such low uptake and they can be irritating, and if you irritate the immune system enough, it will become very upset.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Make sense

Dr. Russell Jaffe: Flavonol but safer the soluble OPC we have them together in different forms because they help prepare they reduce pain they enhance many functions of the innate immune system and when your innate immune system is functioning, you are in a repair mode where you don’t have to call in the extra troops. What’s called the adaptive immune response which are the lymphocytes and the other delayed immune reactive cells. So, which one is to provide a lot of energy to the innate immune system so it can defend and repair you, so they can recycle foreign invaders down to their building blocks and make them available for the body to build itself up? And then more importantly, after you do defense you have to do repair. Well, most Americans are in defense mode almost all the time. You can think of it this way, during the day we do more defense work when we’re getting restorative sleep, we do more repair work. Ah notice I snuck in restorative sleep. Now if you need restorative sleep, then you might need that salt and soda bath the dichromatic light which we didn’t talk about but that goes along with it the abdominal breathing, the active meditation the magnesium and choline citrate, maybe tryptophane with some zinc and b6 so that your body can make the serotonin and the melatonin. I never give serotonin. I never give melatonin because the body never floods itself with those neurochemicals and neural hormones. I give the tryptophane in a way that it goes exactly in the brain where it’s needed, where the brain turns it into serotonin or melatonin as needed. And by the way, it has a very short life in the body because it’s too potent to leave around. So, we follow physiology before a pharmacology, but that also means we study physiology and frankly most of my colleagues today, they know about pathology and I am a double board-certified pathologist, but they don’t remember physiology and biochemistry flummoxes.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I agree healthy egg yeah biochemistry and physiology and when you apply it that becomes Clinical Nutrition and functional medicine essentially, right?

Dr. Russell Jaffe: Absolutely, absolutely.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very good.

Dr. Russell Jaffe: So now the next, right. The next test is an omega-3 index, want to know where you are omega-3 to omega-6 this is Bill Harris’s test. Can be done on a blood spot, and the goal value was more than 8%, and the quick anecdote is that Bill Harris was in the offices of Professor Patti Deutsch at the Military Medical School, she and I are friends I came by because I was going to confer with her and bill was lamenting the fact that it’s so hard to find adults with healthy omega-3 levels. Patti points to me he pulls out a Lancet he calls me up a few days later he says your omega-3 is 13.2% something like that I said well is that better than eight he said well we think it is if you know that above eight is good we know that above eight is good but let’s say that you were just a consumer or just a listener to this show. You might assume that 13 is better than eight. But I’m a scientist so I had to ask Bill is it really better than eight and he’s an honest enough scientist to say we think it is we pray it is we hope it is come back and five or ten years we’ll have more day. So that’s the omega-3 index. And then we only have one more and that is a urine test, this is the measure of oxidative damage and risk in your DNA it’s called 8-oxoguanine that is 8-O-X-O-G-U-A-N-I-N-E, 8-oxoguanine, and because it’s a urine spot test, we actually have a value per milligram of creatinine. So, your best outcome value is less than 30 milligrams per milligram of creatinine.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Is a test in organic acid by Genova it’s called 8 hydroxy – deoxyguanosine, it sounds very similar to that I know that’s an oxidative stress marker?

Dr. Russell Jaffe: Yes, yes. I think that we’re talking about the same molecule I can tell that this molecule has several different names, they’re all the same you want the DNA, the nuclear DNA oxidative stress marker that’s the one you are.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s it that’s correct good.

Dr. Russell Jaffe: Now we help people interpret tests that other labs do. So we folks want to know about these best outcome goal values and how to attain them, then you would talk to our health coaches and our nutritionist. If you want to have them perform they can be performed through our lab or through your lab although the LRA is distinctive to us, and the omega-3 index is distinctive to Bill Harris.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very good. And then what’s the range you want to be in for the omega-3 again?

Dr. Russell Jaffe: Yes, for the omega-3 index you want more than 8% to be omega-3

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And with yours, you were up to 13 you were saying right?

Dr. Russell Jaffe: 13 plus.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay so what we’re going to do…

Dr. Russell Jaffe: At the moment there’s only one person who has a higher value if I remember correctly from what Bill said, and it was actually a youngster, was a teenager but this mom took very much pride in telling us how much omega-3 she got her kids to eat.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And if they’re a high threshold for that just because of the lipid peroxidation would you say eight grams, four, six, what’s your high-end recommendation you know we’re assuming farmers pharmaceutical-grade super high quality, so it’s not oxidized.

Dr. Russell Jaffe: Well if the question is how much EPA and DHA do I take and I would never take an oxidized product and I would never recommend anyone do that. But I currently take 8 to 10 grams a day, and that may seem high but I can tell you that given my particular background, that’s what seems to be needed to keep all the other parameters in the range that I would like them to be. So I’m personalizing my intake.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Plus you’re also probably calibrating the L ascorbate which is you know stabilized membranes too, right?

Dr. Russell Jaffe: Oh of course and I take the polyphenolics and I take the super B complex that has a full mineral complex, and I occasionally take some extras in because I’m a man. So yes and I take prebiotics probiotics and symbiotic. So yes I actually sent someone a photograph of the 12 supplements that I take a day and I take two to four doses a day of those supplements. Now I’m like everyone else when it comes to opening-closing bottles, I understand that it’s a commitment I have made because it helps me feel and function so much better. By most physical and functional measurements, I’m half my age and if I can keep that up if I can keep that up for another 30 40 years it’ll be a good run.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent Dr. Russell Jaffe, it’s been an amazing podcast. Lots of knowledge bombs lots of great information. Were there any other biomarkers that all the eight?

Dr. Russell Jaffe: No no we got through all eight of them yeah that was pretty quick but thank you for being such a good host and for making sure that I stayed on top

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent. I’m gonna put in the show notes here, we’re gonna put the links to the ELISA ACT biotechnology food allergy lymphocyte test. Will put the vitamin c el ascorbate, the potency guard powder links, and everything so if anyone wants information, we’ll put it down below. Is there anything else you want to leave the listeners with here today dr. Jaffe?

Dr. Russell Jaffe: Oh gosh yes, I would like folks to know that in the 21st century we have to save our own lives. You cannot rely on science from the 19th or 20th century. I’m not even sure today you can rely on an expert. As Jackie Mason, the comedian says, in the phone book or wherever you look up your doctor its lists every condition and whether they were present or absence the day your problem occurred. And I’m just trying to be a little bit humorous about it, I think consumers should be very active today learning about themselves through self-assessments, through tests that can be interpreted to best outcome individual levels, as we’ve just been talking. Now, this is a new paradigm, this gives information inspiration and if you put some effort perspiration in, you can recover decades of quality life, and you can feel and function better tomorrow. It’s the best value that I have found in all my years in science and by the, way this is not only how I follow through I do walk my talk. But this is how my parents live near the end of their life and the way my children live today. So put us to the test and find out how well you can feel.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well thank you so much I think you did a phenomenal job taking the hard science, biochem science, and applying it and making it practical so people can apply it so, thank you so much I look forward to having you back soon to dive in deeper and you have a phenomenal day that dr. Jaffe, you take care

Dr. Russell Jaffe: You the same, thanks so much.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Thanks so much, bye now.







Audio Podcast:  



B12 Deficiency | Podcast #223

In today’s talk, Dr. J and Evan Brand discuss some important points regarding B12, a topic that is so common yet so overlooked by conventional medicine but could change one’s life. 

B12 deficiency was a problem of Evan Brand that stemmed from gut infections. He believes because he had H-Pylori, it reduced his stomach acid even though he was eating grass-fed beef. Having low B12, it resulted in nausea, digestive issues, and fatigue. B12 is huge even for someone like him who thought they were doing it right. Watch the video and answer your own questions too! Don’t forget to share!

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

In this episode, we cover:

04:48    How Does B12 Deficiency Happen?

08:33    B12 Shots

10:10   Food Sources of B12

11:03    Why do We Need B12?

16:12    More Food Sources of B12

17:14    Neural Tube Defects


Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey there it’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani, welcome back to the podcast. Evan Brand and I are in the house, we will be discussing on all topics: B12. Let’s dive in. Evan, how we doing today man?

Evan Brand: Hey man, I’m doing pretty well. I’m excited to talk with you about something that is so common, yet so overlooked by conventional medicine, but it could change your freakin’ life, and it’s B12 deficiency, which is a problem that I have, and I had previously, and I think it was all stemming from my gut infections. I believe it was because I had H-Pylori, which reduced my stomach acid, therefore even though I was eating grass fed beef I still wasn’t getting the B12 from my meat, and therefore I was low. And I had definitely some nausea, I definitely had some uh, digestive issues, fatigue, uh it showed up on my testing too. So, B12 is huge even for somebody like me who thought they were doing it right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, B12 is really important. A couple of things off the bat, just to kinda highlight, B12 is really important for methylation. So, methyl groups are- are carbon and essentially free hydrogens and we methylating neurotransmitters, detoxification pathways, uh we activate various uh genes through methylation. So B12 and- I would say B12 tends to work really well with its sibling, uh folate. Folic acid is kind of uh- uh let’s just say uhm, one of the more slang not so good qualities or not so good uhm, types of uhm folic acid or folate. Folic acid has to get converted to folate and a good chunk of the population, 70% or has at least heterozygous, meaning, they’re missing one gene to help uhm basically convert that folic acid to folate be it as enzyme called MTHFR, methylenetetrahydrofolate reductase. So, essentially, B12 is really important and it uses folate, activated folate along with it for methylation and gene activation.

Evan Brand: Yeah, and a lot of people talk about MTHFR, then I’m really sure what’s going on. You’re just had a reduced- you’re had a reduced capacity than other people to- to work this conversion process. So, that can result in fatigue and the- the question maybe, well, does that mean I go straight on a methylfolate supplement? The answer is not always, ’cause some people don’t feel well with those, so there’s- there’s a- a goldilocks that Justin and I figured out with people. Sometimes you can go too high, sometimes you go too low. So, there’s always a tweak with this, so on this podcast we’re gonna say, “Hey, your magic dose of B12 and folate is gonna be X milligrams or X micrograms per day”, ’cause you gotta figure it out. Uh there’s just not a- a- a number.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And then there’s a couple different types of B12 that’s out there. You have your conventional cyanocobalamin, right. Cobalamin is the B12 and it’s bound to a- a- basically almost like a- a cyanide type of molecule, right? And then you have the more bile available types, you have the methyl B12 which is it’s methylated, it’s bound to a methyl group. Then you have the hydroxyl group. Hydroxyl group is bound to a hydroxyl, and then have the adenosyl group. Hydroxyl is gonna be uh- I think it’s gonna be a lot more mitochondrial based, and then B12 can help uh on the methyl side, will help more with detoxification and- and will help more with the methyl donor side. So detox on one side, and then on the uh hydroxyl side will help more with the mitochondria and help with uh nitric oxide which is really important for mitochondrial function.

Evan Brand: I’ve had a lot of people actually react pretty poorly to doing supplemental methylcobalamin B12, er- myself included, I don’t feel well on methyl. So I end up doing- using a combination of hydroxocobalamin and/or the adeno-cobalamin-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think [crosstalk] is from a detoxification like we were loading to I think some of that could have a detoxification effect, and then going more with adenosyl or hydroxyl or combination of those two can help with the mitochondria, a little bit more help with energy, help with nitric oxide. Know you have- with some of the stress issues, you had more blood pressure issues, so of course, nitric oxide is vasodilator, it opens things up.

Evan Brand: Yup. So we’ve got some symptoms of- now, we can test this, we’ll talk about testing towards the end, if you have too little vitamin B12 in your system, what may happen? Uh, could be poor vision, weakness, tingling in your hands and feet, clumsiness, fatigue, nausea, mental confusion, anemia, digestive issues, skin infections, nerve problems. And so, uh Linus Pauling Institute, they’ve got their own opinion of major problems that could be linked to B12 deficiency like breast cancer, depression, osteoporosis, thyroid issues, gastric cancers neural tube defects, chronic stomach inflammation. So this is pretty nuts, and they’ve got quite a lot of literature on this too. So, uh, it makes sense.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, it’s a use. So let’s kinda dive in first. How does B12 deficiency happen? So, number 1, it can happen if you’re a vegan or vegetarian and you’re not getting- let’s just say any animal products, uhm even- even plant-based products, a good vegan or vegetarian is gonna have to supplement B12. You just not gonna get enough in plant-based products, you’re gonna get it in egg yolks, you’re gonna get it in meat and animal products. So, being vegan or vegetarian is one risk factor. Risk factor number 2 is you have poor malabsorption, you have gut issues, absorption issue, whether it’s an- irritable bile disease, or crohn’s, also of colitis type of thing, or even just poor digestion, ’cause, remember, the intrinsic factor is produced in the stomach, and it’s produced by the parietal cells, the same cells that make hydrochloric acid. And we- this intrinsic factor basically- basically tags B12, it grabs on to it, and then from the stomach, you go to into the small intestine, the duodenum is the first part, the jejunum, and then the ileum, it is then released and then reabsorbed back up in the ileum. So it’s like you have this carrier, this tag, or this relay race, where intrinsic factor binds to that B12 in the stomach, and then releases it back down to the very end of the small intestine in the ileum. So it’s really important because if we have gut inflammation, and let’s say we have poor parietal cell function, which tends to mean we also may have low stomach acid. That poor digestion is gonna create more leaky gut, more gut inflammation, and continue to decrease intrinsic factors. So, if we have low intrinsic factor or if we have intrinsic factor antibodies, uh or parietal cell antibodies, this is called pernicious anemia, where we have an autoimmune attack, it’s attacking either the cell or the compound that’s produced to help basically run that relay race for the B12. So the more you have leaky gut, the more you have gut inflammation, there’s a greater chance of autoimmunity, which could affect B12 absorption. And for those kinds of people, which tends to go more on the sublingual side, with intrinsic factor we may even do the adenosyl-hydroxy versions, go sublingual, bypass the guts, and we may also uhm even opt for an injection.

Evan Brand: Great point. Yeah, people were gonna ask, “Well, why can’t I just take a supplements, swallow a pill for this”, well, you just alluded to the gut infections or other problems, inflammation, autoimmune gut conditions, that may reduce the absorption. So just because it says on the label, you’re gonna get “X” amount, that- uh- you know, we always say, “Oh, you are what you eat” but not necessarily, you really are what you digest. So if your digestion is compromised, then you’re not gonna get what’s on the bottle, and therefore you might not get the clinical improvement you’re looking for. No I just sent you a link to a- a PubMed study here, they call it “Impact of Helicobacter Pylori on the Development of B12 Deficiency”. And long story short, the findings prove, strong evidence, H-Pylori infection is associated with cobalamin deficiency. So that probably started it all for me, you know, diet wasn’t great as a kid, but me having that H-Pylori infection, that was probably a huge trigger for my B12 to be so low.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. Yup, totally makes sense. So, this is why it’s so important that if you have B12 issues, you have to make sure the diet is right. And the diet is gonna be super important. Uh, vegan, vegetarians are maybe gonna have a problem, uh, the next is, if there’s a leaky gut or any inflammation in the gut, that has to be rectified and addressed. Now in my line, we use like methylated B12, and- and uhm methylated B-Vitamins, ’cause typically you wanna take you a B6 and folate, and B12, uhm but some people they may need to go sublingual. So we may wanna go in adenosyl-hydroxy form which gets absorbed more in the mitochondria, versus the plasma for the methyl B12. So, very important, you gotta get to the root cause. So, what are some great food sources, or anything else you wanna highlight before we go into the food component Evan?

Evan Brand: Well, I wanted to get your opinion on the whole B12 shot thing. I mean, you and I work with so many people, and we hear every single week someone going into a naturopathic clinic, or some other clinic to go get a B12 shot, yet, we run their testing, and they still look low in B12. So, what are your thoughts on B12 shots?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think for some people it may make sense to do it especially with severe malabsorption and severe gut issues, I think for most people, uh, just a sublingual or just a capsulated B12, with uhm other methylated B’s like the MTHF folate and- and pyridoxal phy- phosphate or good quality pure- uh, you know pyridoxine HCL, uh B1 to 3, that’s gonna be enough for most, some may have to go 1 step up and go to a sublingual, and- and adenosyl or hydroxyl form, for most, that’s gonna be enough. If there’s severe issues, maybe an injection in the beginning, like if we have a- and also of col- colitis or crohn’s issue, we have blood in the stool, maybe-

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -to that degree that makes more sense in the beginning, but uh, in general, I work with dozens of IBD patients in, we typically are able to get their choline and their digestion stable and the de-inflammation downward or that stops, and then we’re able to get their uhm- their levels up, which is uh sublingual.

Evan Brand: Yup. The uh- that’s uh- I mean, that’s- that’s my whole point too, I- I’ve really don’t wanna go get a shot. The sublingual works so good. Uh, so, I mean, here’s the thing with the- with the B12, you know, even if you do take more than you need, it’s more fo- a people having problem with deficiency, ’cause if you take excess, your excess B12 gets stored in your liver. So even if you do take more than you need, that’s fine, we’re more concern about you having too little, you know, rather than too much.

And then you mentioned the foods. So yeah, let’s get into that. I mean, organ meats are gonna be number 1. So, I’ve seen a lot of companies out there now where people don’t wanna eat organ meat. So these companies will take like a grass fed liver or a grass fed kidney of a- of a cow, and- or a lamb, and then they’ll put that into capsules. So you can take like liver pills, you can take kidney pills if you want, I personally don’t do that, uh, maybe when I get more into hunting, I will eat, you know- you know, eat- eat the deer or eat the other animals’ liver, but- but currently me personally, I do not do uh liver.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, exactly. So, I mean, I think it- it’s a great source to do it. A lot of my women that are cycling and uhm me- menstruate heavily, I’ll ’em do liver during that time frame just to get some extra B12 and store it up in their liver, even just an ounce or two, per day during that time is enough, uhm, there’s a lot of B12 and- or Iron in the liver.

So, couple of things I wanna highlight, so, we need B12, 1, to help develop our nervous system. So, early on, we can have neural tube defects, which is basically our- our s- our nervous system doesn’t close all the way up, and essentially, we can have it on the back side where we have spina bifida or we can have it on the front side, or we may- we may even have a cleft palate, right? Those are all B12 or neural tube defect issues. Uhm, next we may see macrocytic anemias, right? Megaloblastic macrocytic anemia is where our blood cells are really big. So, red blood cells, unlike us, we start off small and get bigger right? Red blood cells actually are bigger and then get more smaller as they mature and get older. And we need healthy levels of B12 and folate and methylate and B-Vitamins to help this conversion happen. If not, we’ll run an RBC or uh- uh- a CBC I should say – complete blood count – within the C’s. So we’ll run like MCH, mean corpuscular hemoglobin, mean corpuscular hemoglobin concentration, mean corpuscular volume MCH, MCHC, MCV, these are markers to look at how big the red blood cell is. And of we see a really big red blood cell, that can give us a big sign that uhm, where we don’t have enough of those B-Vitamins onboard, especially if we start to see lower RBC, low hematocrit, low hemoglobin that tells us we got some B-Vitamin issues.

Evan Brand: You know what I found this true in- is women, or I mean, men too, uh do too much alcohol, you know, I’ve looked at some of the literature on how alcohol can damage your liver and as well as your red blood cells, so when you look at some of these like not “let’s freak out level”, but when you look at some of these low red blood cell levels, it could be linked to, you know, a woman doing 2, 3 glasses a wine every night. And all we do, we don’t even have to supplement, in that case, we’ll just say, “Hey, pull out the alcohol for a month”, then if we look blood looked at again, now all of a sudden, the red blood cell count looks normal. Uhm, you and I talked about this book before but I loved it, uh, Dr. Dicken Weatherby’s book, “CBC and Blood Chemistry Analysis”, he’s got some really good functional markers in there for like your red blood cells and white blood cells and all that, so that has a good resource for people if they wanna look at their blood work and see, you know, “How do I stack up compared to a functional range”, which is tighter than conventional range, that’s a good book for that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: A hundred percent. Yup, a hundred percent. So, a couple of ways to test like I mentioned, right? You can do the MCV, MCH, MCHC which is, you know, it’s gonna be good to your- give you a good medication, we could also run B12, and if you’re vegan, vegetarian, that could be really good, that could be a good marker. You may have, let’s just say enough B12 in your blood but not enough in your cell. So this is where we like to look at methylmalonic acid or trans holo cobalamin. So if we had adequate levels of B12, we convert methylmalonic acid into suc- succinic acid. So there’s this conversion, right? And then if methylmalonic acid goes high, it’s- could- it’s not able to convert it and- to a succinic acid and then we can make that inference that there’s not enough B12 to make that conversion happen. That make sense?

Evan Brand: Yeah it does. So, you’re saying, with blood- blood might not always show the true picture, correct?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It not always show it, I mean, we serum B12, you may have- you- you know, you may show an- an okay amount but we may still have issues, we have to run that organic acid that we always talk about, and then on that test, we’ll look at- for amino glutamate, which will give us a folate marker, we’ll look at methylmalonic acid which will give us a B12 marker, and we may also look at ___[14:29] and ___[14:30] which will give us markers in the B6, we like to look at those key methylating nutrients: B6, B12 and folate together.

Evan Brand: And this is on- I think you said it already but just to be clear what this test is. This is a urine test, it’s a first one in urine-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Evan Brand: -sample. We run it on everyone, it’s an organic acids test, and often what I’m doing now is I’m having that organic acid test combined with a chemical profile or even a mold test. Uh, which- which is a mycotox panel. So we can take one urine sample, run it through multiple machinery at the lab and then we get multiple read out which is pretty cool, that way you- or not just guessing on why this is happening.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes, and I had a podcast with Tim Jackson just on last Friday and he talked about the idea that lithium helps with B12 transport, and Dr. Amy Yasko talks about this too. So, lithium orotate, not lithium carbonate, the drug, lithium orotate can really help with B12 transport. So that can be something if we’re having issue with B12, you may wanna look at adding, you know, 5 or 10 milligrams of lithium orotate with that as well.

Evan Brand: Yeah, I was gonna say it probably be a low dose, right?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm-hmm.

Evan Brand: Just a- just to get that effect going in, and then lithium too, that’s also used for a lot of brain issues, right? Lot of like-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: -depression and- and-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah you can see that help with dep- depression, mood, anxiety issues, and we’re not talking lithium carbonate which is commonly used for bipolar, right? We’re talking lithium orotate, the- the nutrient.

Evan Brand: Wow, I’ve heard of lithium orotate being really calming for people-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Evan Brand: -I wonder if that’s because it’s helping to transport the B12 as you’re mentioning. Maybe that’s why it does- it has the effect that it does, it has multiple mechanisms.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hundred percent, yup. And [crosstalk] on it? Studies showing that it’s connected with lithium- with uh B12 transport, so I think it’s- you know, it’s another tool that we’ll put in our “tool belt” so to speak.

Evan Brand: Well, let’s get back to food just for a couple of minutes-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: -and then we gotta wrap up. So you- you know, we talked about the liver. So beef is gonna be good especially your pastured animals, your grassfed beef, uh, you could do your elk, your bison, whatever type of meats you like, eggs are gonna be great if you can tolerate ’em, you know, good pastured eggs, happy chickens that roam the grass and ate bugs like they’re supposed to, uh, clams, I personally don’t eat clams but that was on a huge list of “Hey, here’s all this B12 foods”, clams was up there, uh, there was another one, dairy, but I personally don’t do much dairy except for butter. Would you say there’s some B12 in some good grass fed butter, probably yes.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think so. I think you’re gonna get some of it just for the fermentation of lot of the grass i- in the gut-

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -right? You know, the cows gonna basically ruminate a lot of that good healthy butyric acid though, and I think you were gonna- you will get some B12 out of that as well.

Evan Brand: Okay, okay. And then, so we talked about blood, talked about urine, talked about supplementation, talked about foods, what are the mechanisms, what is B12 cause if its low, I think we hit on every point unless you wanna bring a- a couple others.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, so, kind of going back, we talked about neural tube defects if you have low B12, that’s kinda more in the pathological side, and of course that starts early on. So, of course, if you’re a woman, you’re looking to get pregnant, you should be on a really good- your multi should automatically have f- folate in there, not folic acid and it should have at least good methylated B12 if you’re not having any problems. And then we should be eating our leafy green vegetables, we should be getting egg yolks, we should be getting grass fed, high quality meat, maybe even a little bit of liver, especially if- is a woman if you’re having your period, you’re gonna be losing blood, so getting that liver will help with extra Iron as well, and then some good B12 which you’ll store up in your liver. So, that’s a really good starting point to prevent a lot of this. And then number 2, uh, on the back end, we can have let’s call it- uhm, subacute combined systems disease, or posture lateral sclerosis could we need healthy levels of B12 to build our myelin, to build our ner- to build our nervous system up. So it’s really important that we have enough B12 uh for those issues. I already talked about uhm, B12 in the gut, and how that can be a sign of pernicious anemia or other IBD or irritable bowel issues, or just a lot of gut inflammation and extreme malabsorption in the gut. So I think these are all really important things. And then uhm, I would say, I mean, of course you’re gonna see thyroid issues, right? If we uhm, had un- inadequate levels of B12 because we don’t have enough mature red blood cells. Mature red blood cells carry nutrition, carry oxygen, and we need that for healthy metabolism. So we could have lower thyroid function as well, we need B12 to be able to methylate, so we do drugs like the- the methotrexate, chemotherapy drugs for let’s say massive gut issues. A lot of these- a tricky irritable bile disease is with typically corticosteroids and chemotherapy on the gut, methotrexate, that inhibits a lot of B12 and folate, and that can create more DNA damage. So we need adequate levels of B12 to really have good healthy DNA, uhm repair. And that’s really important in activation.

Evan Brand: Yeah, well, just to mention too on the drug front, think of all the people on acid blocking medications, whether prescribed by their GI doctor, their regular doctor, or, even just the over-the-counter zantac, prilosec, any of these proton pump inhibitors, those are all gonna be reducing your ability to digest and absorb B12. So even if you eat a paleo diet, but you’re on acid blocking medications, or you have infections like we test for, parasites, bacterial overgrowth, candida, H-Pylori infections, anything that’s disturbing that gut balance, and they’re stealing the nutrients from you, you could have low B12 there. So always make sure you’re working towards that root cause, don’t just take the pill- a B12, get a good quality as we mentioned but make sure you figured out why. Why did this happen in the first place? Always ask why. Make sure you get there with the practitioner. So I know Ju- Justine and I gotta wrap up, so if you wanna say a couple comments-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And also, if you have let’s say an elderly parent or grandparent, some dementia and Alzheimer’s like symptoms can come from low B12. So, if you know anyone on your family whose older and has these issues, this is where I think it’s really great to de- bring in, “Hey let’s get ’em a good quality injection, let’s get some nutrients”, ’cause sometimes that can be turned around with simple high quality injectable uh methylated or you know, adenosyl-hydroxy B12 can be super helpful. There’s been some studies on Alzheimer’s dementia patients where, you know, I think it was 10%, so on massive improvement in their memory with the B12 injection. And then also say look for the canker sores. Canker sores are a big uh- big sign that you could have B12 issue, also it’s a big sign of a gluten-sensitivity, right? These are aphthous ulcer, so, that’s another big thing I would say to look at. And I think the B12 injections are really big one, you already mentioned the foods, the eggs, the venison, the beef, the liver, some of the sea food, I think we hit all the major things Evan. So I’ll just say if you guys enjoyed this great info, give us a thumbs up, we’re clinically applying this information with patients every day, so it’s not theoretical for us, or in the trenches applying it. So hoping that listeners here can use it to make them- make their health better. If you like it give us a thumbs up, give us the share. Let us know your comments below, we appreciate it, and uhm we appreciate you guys supporting the podcast. You guys have phenomenal day. Evan, great chatting man.

Evan Brand: Yeah. Take care. If people wanna reach out to you, justinhealth.com, you could schedule consults around the world. If you wanna reach out to me, evenbrand.com we look forward to helping you. Take care in the meantime.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Awesome. Evan, you just take care man. Thanks so much. Bye everyone.

Evan Brand: See you, bye.


A study on Impact of Helicobacter Pylori on the Development of B12 Deficiency by PubMed

CBC and Blood Chemistry Analysis by Dr. Dicken Weatherby




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