Functional Dentistry | Dr. J with Dr. Steven Lin – Podcast #176

Today’s podcast features Dr. Steven Lin, the world’s foremost functional dentist and the author of “The Dental Diet.” In this video, they talk about holistic dental stuff, like understanding how diet affects the skeletal growth, especially in jaws and skull, and the different protocols that will enhance one’s dental health. Watch and learn more as they also discuss the various clinical and functional procedures that may be suited for your dental needs.

Stay tuned as they touch many impactful topics in the field of functional and dental medicine. Keep watching to gain some wealth of knowledge Dr. Justin and Dr. Steven, through this podcast, share!

Dr. Steven Lin

Dr. Steven Lin

In this episode, we cover:

06:20   Vitamin K2

31:50   Cod Liver Oil and Emu Oil

48:50   Myofunctional Therapy and Myofunctional Orthodontics

50:33   Snoring, Behavioral Patterns, and Dental Health

63:00   Is Root Canal Necessary?




Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey, guys. It’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani here. Today’s gonna be a phenomenal podcast. We have Dr. Steven Lin from down under in Australia. He is a holistic dentist, and we’re gonna drop some serious knowledge bombs, connecting functional medicine and nutrition to your overall dental health. Dr. Steven, welcome to the show.

Dr. Steven Lin: Thanks, Justin. It’s such a pleasure.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh. Great to see you here. Your site’s drstevenlin— L-I-N— dot(.) com, and you had a— a new book that’s called “The Dental Diet.” So, really excited to kind of dig in ‘cause most dentist, they don’t really connect the nutritional components with healthy— you know— gums and teeth health. C— Can you just kind of— Why is there such a disconnect? Is it— Does it start in Dental School because there’s not much nutritional? Why is that disconnect present?

Dr. Steven Lin: Yeah, absolutely. And so— uh— just as a background. So, I was training biomedical science before I went to dental school, and I— I cand of sports nutrition. And— And I always kind of— you know— thought about how performance and your lifestyle affected uh— your overall health, and so I kind of— dental school took that away from me. And so, I— I— you go into the dental practice. And yeah, we see very sick people and we see rotten teeth. We see gum disease and it— it’s some of the worst conditions and the most common conditions people suffer in society. Yet, I had no answer as to why it was happening and so I could fix it. And— you know— once you get out to the dental world, it’s— it’s—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm—

Dr. Steven Lin: It’s very empowering. You know— You can fix someone small. You— You never change anyone more than when you fix their smile. But— you know— I began to find the solution with it because— you know— they— they weren’t a lot of answers as to why. Uhm— you know— Beside sugar and tooth decay, gum disease was really uhm— you know— generally called Idiopathic. Uh— There was no answers as to why kids don’t grow jaws anymore today, why teeth don’t fit into mouths, why uh— kids needs braces, why wisdom teeth infections occur. We just rip them out. And so, I took some time off work and I accidentally came across a book in a hostel by a guy named Weston A. Price, [crosstalk] and I’ve never—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Steven Lin: Yeah. In seven years of— of practice, I’ve never heard of “Nutrition and Physical Degeneration”. That was kind of my awakening moment, and from there— you know— I went down the road to writing the book, the “Dental Diet,” but it was many years and I realized that there was so much science out there and so much understanding about the body that we’d missed. And then our teeth are the first signs that we really need— kind of need to get back to that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: One hundred percent. I think there’s a lot of assumptions, too, with— with dentist or chiropractors or medical doctors that— “Hey! You know— You went to school for this long. You spent so much money on it that you have to have— you had to have got an access to all of the information that matters while you’re in your training or residency or medical school, right? And that’s an assumption where that’s really not true, and it takes 20 or 30 years— you know— of time to really influence and move and shift a curriculum. And so, because of that— you know— all the training that people are getting i— is really decades old, and also doesn’t— you know— hurt the fact that lots of major— you know— corporat— corporations and— and uhm— interests like Big Pharma, and such, have a major influence on what you get taught. Because you don’t want to develop tools and learn information that may out-compete against uhm— procedures and medications that are just fixing the symptoms, so— You made some really awesome points there. Any comments on that last piece there?

Dr. Steven Lin: Yeah. Look, uh— uh— you’re absolutely right, and I get a lot of inquiries about this because people ask me— is you know— where do I find a dentist that practices some. And— you know— they have to kind of realize that— you know— the information isn’t readily available unless uh— a practitioner’s gone out and sought it. And so, all the issues that you— you brought up there are unfortunately present in the— the graduates today uh— receiving an education 30 or 40 years old. And, this is all sped up a lot in the last five to ten years in that— the— the information age, social media, with people little that are kind of savvy and following influences of— of— of watching and seeing more scientific research than a person going through medical or dental school ever will. And so, it’s a huge issue. We got this big disconnect and we kind of need to piece it together.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: A hundred percent. My biggest issue with research is, to do the research, they— you typically have to isolate variables. The problem is, in functional medicine, or natural medicine, or holistic dentistry, you’re moving so many levers and so many variables. I mean, if you optimize someone’s Vitamin D, cut sugar out, cut grains out, work on their gut, help work on gut bacteria, work on their sleep, work on movement— there are seven or eight variables there. Y— You don’t know which lever is the big one for that person, right? That’s the issue. With research, i— it tends to be one lever at a time, and it’s the synergy by doing so many things, and moving physiology by changing so many levers and variables, you get better results. I think that’s probably the biggest downfall with research, is you’re just not able to move as many levers at once if you’re really doing kind of the— double-blind Placebo-controlled type of studies.

Dr. Steven Lin: Yeah, an— and— exactly. So, that’s such a downfall with research, and— a great example, I think, is that, for instance, why we haven’t seen crooked teeth as uh— yeah, as an environmental problem. It’s because it’s so multifactorial. You know— There are studies that show, for instance, uh— tongue-ties, that mouth breathing, that uh— chewing— all these issues uh— uh— uh— joined— y— you know— through these studies, in one way or another, to malocclusion. But, we haven’t built that overall picture because there’s so much going on. And, you know, this is really a testament to what kind of Price is talking. Because you go back and look at his book, he doesn’t use uhm— these techniques. He uses anthropology. He uses ancestral medicine, He u—  he uses dental examination. He uses nutritional uh— analysis. And, that’s functional medicine back in the 30’s or up. And we’ve just lost that holistic perspective and I— I really think we’ve got enough scientific model to get back there. But we need just overturn this very kind of narrow tunnel vision way of looking at research.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Phenomenal. Now, just kind of diving back into Weston A. Price. So, Weston A. Price, for the listeners, was a— a dentist who did kind of anthropological research, where he traveled to different indigenous cultures, right? Cultures that were kind of untouched from modern man. So, they were eating kind of their— their type of— you know— indigenous type of food. They weren’t touching the refined sugar, the processed stuff. So, he would go in. He would look at all these different diets, he would also send samples back to labs in the US to kind of test them out. He came in with the theory that he thought you kind of had a bias towards a vegetarian type of diet, I think to begin with. And one of the things he found was that anywhere there was animal products that they were consumed, the only places that he saw that were vegetarian uh— were tend to be areas where there was just no meat to begin with. And they also had a lot of yo— strong perspective on fat-soluble vitamins, like Vitamin K2. So, I want to get your take on K2. Also, if anyone looks at the Weston A. Price book, “Nutrition and Physical Degeneration,” this as like uh— like modern reading in medical schools in the 1940’s and 50’s. Isn’t that amazing? So, this was something that doctors were actually reading. Now, they’re not, and if you just go through the Nutrition and  Physical Degeneration book. If you don’t even read it, but you’ve just look at the pictures, what you see is really broad smiles, strong jawlines, right? And then, the further they went away, from their natural type of food, healthy plants, healthy fats, healthy proteins, healthy animal products, the— the palate gets narrower, the arch of teeth gets narrower. And then, you see all these different crowding and malocclusion. And you can see it in the pictures just in a few generations being away from that food. Any comments there?

Dr. Steven Lin: Yeah. [laughs] Look. I— It was such a phenomenal uh— s— When I first picked up the book, I kind of discounted it because I didn’t— you know— I— I didn’t hear that, any of that, during my seven years of tertiary education. You know— obviously, that kind of goes back to what we just spoke about. But, Price was doing something well beyond this time. He was talking about— you know— things like nutritionally input epigenetics. He was talking about functional growth. He was talking about craniofacial development. All these things have not been a part of— you know— medical or dental uh— the siege castle or uhm— terminology for…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Steven Lin: …the last twenty years. And, if you actually dive through, it was actually lost. So, you’re right in terms of in the mid-19— uh— 20th century.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Steven Lin: A lot of it’s growth focus was actually there. We we— We were expanding health. We were showing that kids were not developing. And so, Price— you know— signaled this in the 30’s. So, what actually happened is he published in 38. He died in 48. And pretty much after that, his work was lost. And so…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Steven Lin: …it was lost for  a number of reasons— political reasons. He published other work on root canal therapy and the systemic kind of uh— communication between a root-treated tooth. And that was actually discounted and thrown out by the dental Association of that time. NAd he actually founded the American Arm of uh— the— the American Dental Association research on this. Well, so he was a huge player, but his work was forgotten, which we— we tend to do. We need to realize that he actually uh— wrote about— you know— three substances in each of these cultures, right? So, he actually went to even westernized cultures as well, that had people living on traditional diets to Swiss uhm— Northern Scottish uh— A— African, Australian and New Zealand— all these places.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Steven Lin: You look through the book and there’s beautiful jaws e— all across the nation. And this is anthropologically been confirmed since. Malocclusion doesn’t happen, and it happens in one generation as soon as you eat the modern diet. So, it doesn’t happen throughout human history. He looked in Peru. He found these caves with these skulls, and there were thousands and thousands of years of p— people with lovely erupted wisdom teeth. If you talked to an anthropologist today, they confirmed it. They said it looked— It doesn’t happen until we start to live in society. And the diet— This is what he— he kind of really nailed into. He measured what they were eating. He— he found these three key nutrients, and so, like you said, the fat-soluble vitamins. And so, what he identified was A and D, but he said, “Well, there’s this other one called activated X.” And—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Steven Lin: He never identified the—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: K2.

Dr. Steven Lin: Exactly, right? And he never identified it. Must have kill— He must be rolling every—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Steven Lin: Poor guy. And it wasn’t until 2007 that Chris Masterjohn actually plugged that in. And so, that perspective really shows us why we’ve been so blind as to how crooked teeth, malocclusion to your growth is a nutritional problem because we didn’t know what K2 was and that it works synergistically with A and D. Now, you go through the research. You see all the Japanese research on Osteoporosis. This stuff— you know— K2 is so, so fundamental to how your body distributes Calcium. It activates Matrix Gla-Protein, Osteocalcin, which without— if they’re not activated, you don’t pick up Calcium from your arteries and your soft tissues and you can’t put them into uhm— into your hard structures y— your teeth and your bones.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely.

Dr. Steven Lin: And one of the quickest is that if— you know that spot behind your front teeth or your lower front teeth that gets uhm— that buildup that your dentist cleans, that painful spot…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Steven Lin: Yeah. When you get that I— I— I use to see people with thi big thick Calculus Buildup, and that’s a Calcified plaq— Plaque Buildup, or Tartar. Now, that’s— In different people, you see this huge, thick, calcified buildup. In others, you don’t see any of that. It’s not for brushing. Brushing doesn’t necessarily stop that. But it’s an imbalance of Calcium. And the problem is they don’t have K2 to carry that Calc— Calcium that’s carried in the saliva into their teeth and bones. So, This is what Price is talking about. We’ve lost it, and there’s such a story between, and we need to get back to this because if kids don’t grow jaw to fit 32 teeth, we have a big problem as a species.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. So, Vitamin K2 is essential. I’m actually consuming a whole bunch of K2 right now. I got some really good grass-fed butter in my coffee with some Collagen peptides as well. Collagen’s also really important too, right? A lot of people— you know— they’re getting a lot of muscle meat protein but they’re not getting a lot of the connective tissue protein. Can you talk more about the connective tissue, Collagen and healthy bone health, including— you know— teeth?

Dr. Steven Lin: Absolutely. So, if you think about your gums and your uhm— and you— and your teeth— So your teeth are held by what we call periodontium.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Nice.

Dr. Steven Lin: And so, that— that makes up of the ligaments, that makes up of the gums…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Steven Lin: …that hold the— the uhm— the teeth in place. And then the alveolar bone underneath. So, basically, what you’ve got there are the building blocks of you— of your joint to muscular scoliosis all in your mouth. And so, it’s unique because they’re supposed to be outside world.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm— Uhmhm—

Dr. Steven Lin: So, there’s a new— There’s a new reaction there as well. So, when your body can’t manage your periodontium, it’s a sign that your body as whole can’t— doesn’t have the raw nutrients to build a— you know— healthy joint, healthy skeletal system. And so, Collagen— you know— the building blocks of all these— you know— This is what Price found. It’s that people treasured our foods that were rich in fat-soluble vitamins that— that manage the bones. We know that the A, D and K2, have a— that— that manages taht Calcium, but to make the— the gums and the— the— to ba— to uhm— ma— to balance uh— Collagen in the body. You need these raw building blocks. And so, the— the time cooks soups every culture would have. And that Price says you put these patients on the reverse tooth decay. And— And, for instance, uh—  the— the s— the fatty and— and skin uh— include cuts of meat taht we kind of seen as bad because we don’t uhm— uh— you know— we think that— that they’re full of fat and we have breast meat. And— and it doesn’t have these— these uhm— nutrients that build healthy gums, healthy skin, healthy bones. And so, that something that’s really been lost and that we need to get back to.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Phenomenal. Now, let’s go talk about Vitamin K, right? ‘Cause you mentioned how important it is. And if we look at kind of the anthropological data, what Weston A. Price was seeing these uhm— people’s diets, we— we’re getting Vitamin— There’s K1 and K2. So, let’s— let’s kiind of draw the line. K1’s gonna be more of your plant-based foods, right? Like your green veggies, your collard greens, your spinach, your broccoli, your Brussel sprouts. And then, we have K2, which is kind of this activator X that Price talked about, which is gonna be— you know— your grass-fed butter, your animal meats, uhm— some fermented soy products, egg yolks, uhm— some raw cheeses. Can you kind of comment on— you know— what these indigenous people’s diets look like, and what foods were added in that really caused the shift that created the malocclusion, the narrowing of the palate and the arch? What did that look like, Steven?

Dr. Steven Lin: yeah. So, what Price noted was that in each society, all  around the world, no matter what they ate, is that they were ten to 20 times ri— uh— had richer in fat-soluble vitamins. So A, D, K2, activated X as he wrote it. Now, the foods that he found, he said— you know— in each society, they treasure this group of foods, and it was either— The foods he just talked about— it was organ meats. It was egg yolks. It was uh— grass-raised dairy, like in the Swiss uh— Low Central Valley that he knows. They would take the cows up to the— to the— fast-growing spring grass because— and why? Because it was rich in K1. And so, the— the cows would produce very rich in K2. And he compared that butter from the— the Swiss mountains to the butter back home in the US. And this is back in the 30’s, by the way. And he found nearly no K2 in those cows raised back home uh— you know— you know— higher. So, you can imagine what your getting now on— on— on the— uhm— supermarket shelf. So— But what he found was that there was a very careful culture around raising these uhm—these animal products i— in a way that from the— the natural environment. And that that would produce these fat-soluble nutrients. Now, the reason is because K2 has different types. Now, we call it Vitamin K2. And so— In medical school, and— and dental school, we’re taught about VItamin K, which is K1…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Steven Lin: …which is the Phyl— Phylloquinone, which is in blood clotting. And then—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Steven Lin: It’s— It’s— It’s [crosstalk] okay for— E— Exactl— Uh— Will the Phylloquinone— Yes. So that—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep.

Dr. Steven Lin: Uhm— And then, K2 is the Menaquinone. So, and then you’ve got actually—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: MK7, yup.

Dr. Steven Lin: Yeah. Two types: a Menaquinone-4, Menaquinone-7, which are the two types of K2. And the Menaquinone-4 is the animal-sourced one. And so, in the body, it does different things. So, kind of when you ate uh— these K2-rich uh— animal products, they uhm— they’re absorbed very quickly so it goes around your body very quickly. Then, K1 and MK7 go to your liver, and so, they’ll do different things to us. So, the body will use K1 and MK7, but then they’ll convert both of them to MK4. So you kind of got this hierarchy of two MK4 from MK7, which is bacterial-derived K2. So, there’s two types of K2. MK4, MK7. MK7 is bacterial-derived, slightly different job in the body. It probably converts uh— better than K1, too— MK4. But, you— uh— you probably need some of these animal-sourced MK4 because that’s the one that your body uses the fastest and— and is kind of the most uhm— bioavailable.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent. So, we have kind of our K1, right? And then, we have our K2 and then that’s— that can be broken up into MK4. There’s different types of [crosstalk] variations there. What is the— what type of Vitamin K is the gut bacteria producing?

Dr. Steven Lin: That’s MK7, the Menaquinone-7. And there’s up to 13 of these, and we— you know—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Steven Lin: We— We probably called it K2. There’s probably— We probably need to go down and rename all of them. And so, the main two— The two types of K2 we recognized and if you picked up a supplement bottle for instance, you’ll see these two types. There’s Menaquinone-7, which is the one that your bacteria in your gut produce.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Steven Lin: And we don’t really know how much it’s producing, how much you convert to your body. That’s all a little bit unknown at this stage. But, we do know, for instance, that we can get it from fermented foods. So, when you pick up a— a probiotic uh— kind of uh— fermented food with uhm— with live species. It’s likely they have it uhm— MK7. So, you get these from chasers, for instance, because they introduce the lactobacillus species that likely produce uhm— uh— K2. And so— That’s the MK7 type. But then— So, the MK4 type, the Menaquinone-4, is the animal-s— uh— sourced. The ones that the— the animal has— has converted, itself, from either the Phylloquinone or the— the MK7. So, slight difference. They do slightly different things in the body. The MK4’s will go to your tissues first. So, it’s kind of uh— eaten up quickly. Then, the MK7 actually is— w— will go to your bones, but then travel to the liver again to be converted to MK4. So, if you don’t get it from your diet, it— it appears that, physiologically, we need these starchy source of animal source uhm— MK4’s.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, basically, your MK7— You were gonna get that from uhm— healthy kind of probiotics type of environment, whether it’s fermented soy or other types of probiotics. And then, that can then go back to the gut as well and get recycled in MK4?

Dr. Steven Lin: Yeah. So, they’ll actually be— So, if you produce in the gut— If you— I— I think if you got a healthy b— uh— gut microbiome…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: yeah.

Dr. Steven Lin: You’re gonna have— You’re gonna be taking care of— ‘cause you’re gonna be producing those MK7’s. It will be absorbed into your intestines. What happens is that your uh— intestines will cri— uh— absorb— make those colon microns and make those lipoprotein…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Steven Lin: …your blood cholesterols. That— Tho— They carry your fat-soluble vitamins around the body.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Steven Lin: The A, D, K2— all of that, they go into lipoproteins, packaged up. MK4, MK7— all of that gets packaged up. The MK7 won’t actually sit on the inside of your lipoprotein. So, the MK4 sit on the outside, and that gets eaten up quickly and taken away. There on the inside is the MK7. So, that go— is more likely to hit your liver to be repackaged and converted to MK4, and then taken out in the— the uhm— _____[19:36], which is a different types liqu[id. So, if they cycle around more, and so you’ve got— That’s why it’s important to have a healthy gut problem, because it’s likely helping this cycle out by producing the MK7.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it. So, MK4: animal-based, grass-fed butter, egg yolks. MK7: more probiotic fermentation, gut bacteria. MK7 goes to the liver, and then can get recycled back into the MK4 animal-based one. We have that generally, right?

Dr. Steven Lin: Yeah. That— That’s— That’s generally— And, there’s a lot we still need to kind of map out on that ‘cause obviously K is a very uhm— you know— We need more research. But, that’s generally a physiological process that we understand now.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Great. Yeah. I’ll do a video afterwards, and we’ll kind of— I’ll kind of boil a lot of the key concepts that you’re talking about into like a 5-minute video. So, if anyone’s trying to follow and they want a more condensed version, we’ll put that in the show notes below. Awesome. So,regarding the diet shifts, let’s just make sure we have this crystallized. So, indigenous culture, Weston A. Price, they were eating fermented foods. They were eating uhm— lots of good healthy fats, whether it’s grass-fed milk or organ meats, or just really good healthy animal products. They were eating the skin. They were eating the fatty or ___[20:45]. They weren’t just eating the muscle meats, like today. We’re eating really good full spectrum fats, lots of vegetables. Uhm— They were avoiding what? The refined sugar. They were avoiding the trans fats. If they were consuming lots of grains, they will tend to be more uhm— i— fermented or produced in a way, where they were soaked to decrease anti-nutrients. Can you kind of comment on what their diet look like, and what the— what happened a generation or two later?

Dr. Steven Lin: Yeah. This is what’s really powerful, when you kind of take process work. When you really step back and see what he was talking about, it was so ahead of his time because he wrote how the month— that once we replace— you know— the uhm— the traditional kind of way of producing foods with the modern food supply. He wrote about how— you know— will we bring sugar in, we bring refined flour. So, we take away that— what the uuh—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: B vitamins?

Dr. Steven Lin: E— Exactly. It would take away all of that. And we— And then— And we take away all the preparation around grains as you just mentioned to take away all the anti-nutrients. But then, he talked— he spoke about vegetable oils as well. And this is one I— What’s just so powerful too is that, well, you know, we— we use these fats that we have not used for many thousands of years, and we— and we replaced these refined vegetable oils with— with the— the uhm— with the fats that our body actually made. And so, when he’s talking about fat-soluble vitamins, you know— these nutrients need natural fats to be absorbed through the body with the process we just spoke about. So, if you eat vegetable oils, your body isn’t going to absorbed and distribute fat-soluble nutrients. So, for instance, if you take a vitamin D supplement with a Canola oil or some type of oil, it’s very unlikely your going to convert that to active blood levels because you— your body can’t— is— is gonna have a low capability to uh— digest, absorb and then distribute uh— Vitamin D in its active form. And this is what he was talking about. It was the modern uh— modern packaged foods that we have re— replaced with really destroyed this traditional and uh— you know— time-honored way of— of— of supplying these nutrients to ourselves. And so, sugar, white flour and vegetables, which is— if you picked up any packaged food off the supermarket, that’s what you’re seeing. And so, the way I kind of try and uhm— try and frame it, and we talked about this in the Dental Diet, is that these are the harmful foods. And generally, people kind of know the harmful foods, right? We know that— you know— sugar’s bad— you know— too many refined carbohydrates are bad, uh— vegetable oils, I think we need to talk about more but— you know— i— uh— it— generally that’s getting out there. But, if you— if you look at a food and you can’t see it as being a source of uh— fat-soluble vitamins or— you know— or you’re not eating that within a day, then you’re not getting uh— a food that is providing these— these uhm— these nourishment. And so, and if you really think about that, you’ll n— you will not find any uh— kind of modern diet foods that are supplied. You have to really think about it in that way, or you’re just eating the stuff that’s— that’s causing harm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Phenomenal. I mean, that makes to me so much sense. So, a good Paleo template’s gonna be a great starting point where we get rid of a lot of those refined fats. We’re gonna get in more saturated fats, more fat-soluble vitamins, A,D, E, K, EPA, DHA, fats from fish oils, of course, good healthy cholesterols. Also, if you uhm— kind of go back and you look at uhm— you mentioned Dr. Chris Masterjohn. I know he talked about him going Vegetarian and Vegan for a while, at some point, and noticing he had a massive amount of cavities after a period of time. So, is the cavities and the weakness in the bone just because those fat-soluble nutrients are gonna be missing and a lot of Vegetarian diets as well?

Dr. Steven Lin: Yeah. So there’s— there’s an issue here, and he went Vegan actually. Yes. So, you…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Steven Lin: …uhm— Yeah. And so, the— the issue there— That was his whole pob— The amazing thing about this is Price’s touched people— you know— decades after his death in— in different ways. And his thing was that he had ten cavities and he went into the library and found this book. [laughs] He started reading it. And— you know— that was his whole trip into— into understanding why he need— you need to eat these time-honored foods ‘cause he had a mouthful cavities. But Vegetarian/Vegan diets do strip out uh— these fat-soluble nutrients because it’s difficult to— We can’t, by definition in the Vegan diet, get these active forms of uh— fat-soluble nutrients. This is what Price talked about. It’s that these— this— the— The foods that contain A, D, and K2. They are from animal sources. That’s just by definition. You know— uh— if you are Vegan, you are going to need to supplement. And so, it’s just a matter of understanding uhm— you know— what your body needs and the nutrients it does. And so, what he was describing is that when you don’t eat Vitamin D, you don’t get sun, when you don’t have K2, when you don’t have A, you— you’ve got an immune uh— reactio— uh— reaction inside your teeth that will provide uh— immunity to tooth decay if you feed it properly. So, Vitamin D levels, Vitamin K2, Vitamin A— they— they feed what’s called the  Osteo-Immune System, which is the stem cells that come out of your—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm—

Dr. Steven Lin: …your bone marrow. And so, they— tho— those stem cells become bone-making cells or they become uh— immune cells. And so, inside your teeth, you have special ones as well. They’re called the Odontoblast. And so, they fed on Vitamin A and D. They need Vitamin A and D to be activated. They release factors that need to be activated by K2. So, this trilogy that he talks about is in— is an— an immune uhm— response inside every tooth. That’s why he saw people that didn’t ever brush their teeth. They had plaque all over their teeth but they didn’t have tooth decay. That’s why tooth decay doesn’t happen in any an— anthropological society uh— in any significant form because they’re all immune to tooth decay. We can’t run around in nature and have a whole new tooth because there’s no dentist to fix it. You have to have teeth that are resilient to the natural environment. And— And these three nutrients provide that resilience. That’s why it’s so fundamental to human health.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, just repeat that mechanism for the listeners. So, the reason why they have all this plaque on their teeth, but it wasn’t able to penetrate the Dentin was because what? Say it one more time.

Dr. Steven Lin: Yes. So, inside the— the dental pulp— So you got three lines…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Steven Lin: …of the tooth. You’ve got the— the pulp inside, which is the artery and the— the nerve supply. And then you’ve got the Dentin uh— which is a layer at uhm— on top of the pulp. And so, that’s actually alive. And then, so the— the Dentin is then protected by the Enamel, which is the white bit you see. Uh— The white outer layer of the tooth. Now, the dental pulp inside the tooth, that has got a supply of [crosstalk] cells called Odonto— Odontoblast. Exactly. These—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Steven Lin: These Odontoblast is sitting there and they’re getting the supply lipoproteins. Wha— What your feeding your mind—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: All those nutrition from your diet.

Dr. Steven Lin: Yeah. Exactly. So, they’re getting— You— You’re directly feeding your teeth with your diet via— And they’re listening to fat-soluble nutrient because it’s crucial for the skeletal system. These Odontoblast are sourced from the Osteo-Immune System. So, the uhm— The uh— bone marrow— they have stem cells in it, and so they’ll become uh— skeletal cells, immune cells, or the d— teeth-building cells. And so, they— they rely on Vitamin A and Vitamin D to be activated. So, these Odontoblasts need uh— Vitamin A and D to be activated. We know how that works in stem cells in the bones and how that, for instance, can affect uh— bone development, for instance, in Rickets and these other skeletal deformities. But then, K2 as well because Odontoblast will release immune factors, and what the— what these immune factors do is they’ll head out into your Dentin. So, that— that middle layer in your tooth— and they’ll actually emit an immune response. And so, your brain is actually listening to your uh— microbial environment in the mouth and it’s responding. So, there’s an insult— there— There’s uh— system there to kind of— to wall it off and— and build the reparative Dentin and stop it. But there’s also a system to kill the— any bacteria that occurs in any kind of problem. So, A, D, and K2 are feeding those cells inside your dental pulp, keeping your dental uh— Enamel and Dentin from ever getting a tooth now, without scrubbing the surface. Scrubbing the surface is a very superficial way of looking after your teeth.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it. So, we have the outer layer, which is the Enamel, one layer in is the Dentin, and then one layer below that is the pulp, and that’s where all these uh— Odontoblast and all these cells and the blood supply come in to feed that outer layer. Do we have— Do I have that right?

Dr. Steven Lin: Exactly.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay.

Dr. Steven Lin: So, they feed the Dentin. They feed the Dentin. And that mole is actually a cell. It’s a very little cellular— The Enamel is actually run by your oral microbiome, so then, you’ve got this communication between y— your body, which is fueled by these uh— these nutrients. And then, the— the biome, which is climbing up the— the uhm— the Dentin tubules, which is in the Enamel, and communicating with the Dentin. So, you’ve got this amazing immune and microbial uh— communication happening in each of your teeth. It’s just like the gut. It’s— It’s fascinating and yet we— we see it as something we just scrub and disinfect. And it— What you eat, what you feed, it really is the— the key way in order to prevent these diseases.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it. Love it. And for ever— anyone it wants to get more info, we’ll put Dr. uhm— Lin’s book in the Amazon link below in the description. So, make sure you click that and get that book to get more of these uh— awesome info. That’s amazing. So, if you’re going in and you’re seeing your dentist, right? And they see maybe a slight shadow in that Enamel or Dentin area, and like— you know— they’re saying it’s a cavity, we should drill it out. What’s your perspective? Should we work on some dietary strategies and watch it, and then see if we can get some recovery? What’s your perspective on being able to recover, maybe that shadow kind of cavity area that your dentist may see?

Dr. Steven Lin: Yes. So, there’s different levels of decay. So, uh— if you have— so— what we call is— is generally uh— the classifications are is whether your decay is eating away the Enamel or you have that kind of Enamel, this kind of shadow, which is where you’ve got some— whether it’s the Dentin or some uh— under layer of the tooth is— is affected by uhm— by decays. So, if the Enamel is still intact, you still have the structure there to be able to remain well. Now, you may not be able to— Yo— You need to monitor this because decay can continue on. But, what you need to do is to get that immune system uh— you know— regardless of what you have, or feeling— you know— you need to get this into uhm— uh— i— into action. And so the first thing you want to do is get your Vitamin D tested. The second thing you want to do is— is get your levels up, quick smart, uhm— to start that— that immune system because that’s gonna— that’s what’s gonna fire into your Dentin to get that reparative Dentin going. Do you have the structure there that— Once you lose the Enamel, the white part of the tooth, you can’t rebuild that. So, you may need a— a uh— a dental restoration uhm— cosmetically or— or uhm structurally to replace it. But if there is a shadow, as you described, and there is— you know— radiographically, there’s enough tooth structure that— you have the physiological uhm— capabilities to affect that if you could change your diet, if you— you know— I would probably recommend suppl— supplementation in that uhm— situation because you want to try and get some fast healing. You want to get K2 in there— I’d say, you want to get some A as well, so something like a cod liver or any oil, and you probably want to— I would say, people like taht usually are pretty low in the range of their Vitamin D levels so they’re gonna need to take a— you know— five to 10,000 IU of Vitamin D. And then, you know— a— a K2 maybe up to about— you know— four to uhm— maybe 500 micrograms a day uh— to— to really kind of kickstart and— and see— and you’re gonna have to monitor, right? So, I— I tr— I make sure that my patients are monitoring their Vitamin D at least four times a year, an absolute minimum. But, in that case, you probably— you might— you probably want to go a bit uh— more detailed, so probably— you know— ei— eight week; check again. And you know— and re— and reaffirm your how you change your diet, and see how your body’s reacting. Because there’s— there’s probably gut issues and everything else on top.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, if you see a slight shadow, you can recover that. But if it’s just totally like a whole or a black spot, that’s an area that probably has to be filled. Would you agree?

Dr. Steven Lin: Well, yes. So the Enamel. If you lose the Enamel, which is the outer layer, yo— you don’t have that ability as such to rebuild because that— that’s a cellulose. So— So the— The cells in the— in the tooth, once it’s formed, uh— uh— leaving kind of the— the Dentin. So the Dentin has…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Steven Lin: …the— the capability to rebuild the Enamel now. Yes. So, you probably gonna need a dental filling uh— to kind of replace that, but first of all, you want to get that physiological process back in play. So, the— the  surface layer is— is the ____[33:22]. You want to make sure your body is managing uh— you know— its Osteo-Immune System uh— at the call.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, how could you have you— your dentist show you this? So, you’d be looking— Hey, they say, “You have a cavity.” You’re like, “Hey. Show me the X-ray.” What would the patient look for on that X-ray? So, if it’s a shadow, it can be recovered? I just want to make sure I understand the— the specifics. [crosstalk] What does that look like?

Dr. Steven Lin: So, what the dentist will look in— in the radiograph is that the levels of shadowing in the tooth and how far the shadowing goes into the tooth. So, we’ll— We’ll call gray 1 or gray 2 if you’d…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Steven Lin: …be shadowing just in the outer, the— the Enamel layer.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep.

Dr. Steven Lin: So— And so, that— even by conventional status can be remain less even— And most dentists will say that we can monitor it. Now, if it goes into dentin, we— we’re kind of talking through in grade 3 and 4 there, and that will be into the outer layer of Dentin or the inner layer of Dentin. And so, you— you’ll kind of uhm— measure how far the shadow goes into the Dentin. If it goes into the pulp, that’s grade 5, and you’re likely screaming toothache. [laughs] Uhm— But, so that— and that’s a whole— that’s a whole another story, uhm— But you i— if it’s into the kind of the outer half of the Dentin, and— you know— teetering into the inner half, you probably have the capabilities. If you’re kind of strict with that and really get measuring your uhm— nutrient intake to— to remineralize. You still have the structure there so it’s possible.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent. So, just recapping, we have our— our big three layers. We have our Enamel. If the shadow goes through here and then to the first half of the Dentin, we probably can recover it. If we go into the bottom half, we probably need to have that filled. Am I hearing that correctly?

Dr. Steven Lin: Yeah. So, i— if it, you can have lesions, for instance, that uh— where the tooth is still in place, right, and it’s got this— this— uhm— this uh— decay that’s kind of eaten away down right into the pulp. Now, in that case, if the Enamel is still there, you may be able to do it. So, those deeper shadows might be able to be uh— kind of recovered if you— if you really kind of shoot those their levels up and— and remove all the kind of harmful factors. Uh— if there’s a cavitation, it— it— you’re probably looking at a dental filling and the problem is then is you’re getting constant uh— microbial infection into the lesions so that’s gonna complicate things again, but yes. So, if you see, generally, into the outer half of the Dentin, you do have the capabilities to heal that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s amazing. So, we want our Vitamin D level what? Fif— Fifty to 70? Seventy to 90?

Dr. Steven Lin: Yeah, I’d say, 60 to 80. That’s the corner—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay.

Dr. Steven Lin: Yeah. That— That’s generally kind of uhm— you know— I— I’d say, for people that have uhm— y— you know— people that have had Chronic Vitamin D Deficiency often take time. Uhm— As you would know uh— but yeah, I’d say, if you— if you’re shooting above 60 as a starting point and— you know— really see how— you know— kind of see how you’re going. If you can see functional medicine practitioner because that’s— yo— you really want to kind of play with a level and see where your body wants to be at.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay. Great. So, let’s create our checklist for anyone listening too kind of help recover your— your tooth from a cavity. So, number one. We have our Vitamin D, right? Making sure, 60 to 80. Uh— Number two, I would say, Vitamin K, right? So, we kind of have our— our plant-based and our animal-based. And we know fermented foods, we know grass-fed butter, we know egg yolks. Uhm— Any other foods that you’d want to talk about to increase the Vitamin A or the Vitamin K? ‘Cause both of those are kind of connected. Masterjohn talks about their kind of being this A, D, E, K ratio. Any comments on those foods to up uhm— the A and even the K2?

Dr. Steven Lin: Yes. So, generally— So, in— in the case of the two to get, I would be recommending uh— Vitamin D and Vitamin K2 supplements, just because we want to— Y— Yeah. This is only short-term. I— In the Dental Diet, I’m really trying to get people long-term for food. But for— You want to get your food-based sources of aiding K2 because it comes in that ratio that Masterjohn talks about. And there is really uh— There is uh— kind of a natural uhm— harmony and balance between these— these nutrients. And so, uh— like a cod liver oil for A and D, Emu oil is a great source for uhm— A, D, and K2. So, that’s one of the— the rare kind of food supplements that has all three of those. And so, uh— that— that’s an option as well. A little hard— harder to get, Emu oil, but the oil is great source of K2 and that gives you the A, D, and K2. So, grass-fed butter oil, uh— Emu oil, uhm— Ghe— So, I— I would recommend trying to get that— a source of that MK4  in there. Uh— You know— Whether you’re having uh— wh— what’s egg yolks uh—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Ghee.

Dr. Steven Lin: Exactly. Butter, Ghee— you know— organ makes you want to try and have a— a couple of slice of liver a week. Uhm— And then, you’re getting that— that uh— kind of natural balance of fat-soluble vitamins, because the body uses all of them together and li— you know— like you said, it started— There’s really no— nothing in isolation, and these are specially all need each other.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it. So, cod liver oil is great, too. Excellent. Would you ever do like Vitamin A drops with like the— the uhm— Retinoic acid and the drops at all too? Or would you try to just, “Oh,” just get it from the whole foods sources?

Dr. Steven Lin: You know what, I tend to think that we can get the VA from food sources— you know— and especially— unless people are really— you know— say, uh— for Vegans, uhm— you know— where you’re not having any kind of liver or eggs or— uh—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Steven Lin: …or anything like that. I’d say, Vegans would want to think about that because is— it’s difficult to get Vitamin A rit— and you’re not gonna convert those— that uhm— beta-Carotene uh— enough…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: No.

Dr. Steven Lin: …to get the level up in the body. Uh— Yes. So, for Vegans, I would probably think about a Vitamin A supplement, but otherwise, I would— I would just be trying to get a uhm— you know— and s— and even for people. Because people kind of uh— that they quease a bit when they think about livers. You can get the bee— the beef liver capsules as well.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Steven Lin: So, that’s—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely.

Dr. Steven Lin: That’s a good option. Yeah. Yo— You probably use them.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep.

Dr. Steven Lin: Yeah. And— and— So, that gives you the full spectrum of— you know— I— I would try and get a couple of little— you know— few different food sources that you kind of grab— one that you’re cooking into a meal— you know— a food supplement maybe. And then, if your D levels are low, I’d be grabbing the uhm— you know— maybe—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: D3.

Dr. Steven Lin: Yes, some D3 and K2…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm—

Dr. Steven Lin: …outside that, through your protocol. And you really want to move to food in the long term.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s great. So, you talked about Vitamin D, probably 10,000 IU’s ‘til you get into that 60 to 80 range. You mentioned the K2 around 500 micrograms in— and per day. And then, how much of the vitamin A per day? What do you think, dosage-wise, there?

Dr. Steven Lin: Yeah. Look. I mean, say— huh— I— I— It’s difficult because the— the vi— We really don’t know a lot about how the dosage. So— I mean, look— If between— Yeah. They say— you know— 10,000 IU to— to 15— you know— that kind of range.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Steven Lin: I— I haven’t used a lot of the supplementation in my clinic uhm— d— myself, just because uh— we don’t know a lot about the— the uhm— dosage itself. But yeah. That kind of range, maybe 5 to 10,000, uh— I— I would just y— I would just go with a little bit of caution with— with Vitamin A— Just— and talk to your health care practitioner about that too, just because— you know— There— There’s a little bit of uhm— kind of stigma around Vitamin A toxicity and whatnot.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Just make sure you aren’t pregnant if you’re trying to go for the higher dose Vitamin A stuff ‘cause that can be teratogenic. And again, just don’t confuse a lot of the listeners either. Uh— Vitamin A versus beta-Carotene. A lot of the plant-based foods are gonna be beta-Carotene, which is a precursor to Vitamin A, and has to get converted, and if you have low thyroid, that can definitely uhm— be decreased. And you can see this kind of Orangey deposit in the palms, that’s a— the sign that you’re not making that conversion. But the big Vitamin A, eggs, butter, uhm— egg yolks, liver— those are gonna be your best sources that are animal-based. Cod liver oil, anything else that you wanted to add there?

Dr. Steven Lin: Yeah. Uhm— I— uh— I mean— Basically, yeah. Any kind of well— if you can find some well-sourced dairy that you— you know— some raw— raw dairy. Uh— Taffy is great. We add the probi— probiotic uhm— cultures. Uhm— you know— If— If you do— If you do tolerate dairy, uhm— yeah. But the— the— With— With these fat-soluble vitamins, that really is the kind of lesson here. It’s that the— the active forms, you need to find uh— you— food sources of the active forms in some way or form. And so, the A, as you said, beta-Carot— uh— tenoid uh— converts to Retinol on the body. The— The K2 pathway— The K1’s okay. That’s the same thing as your body— The K2 is the active form as well. The MK4— that’s the active form that your body is using. Day t— Uh— So, day two in— in, for instance, Mushrooms and whatnot. That’s gonna com— compete in your liver.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Steven Lin: Uhm— [crosstalk] And you need—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: The Ergocalciferol versus the Cholecalciferol.

Dr. Steven Lin: Exactly. Exactly.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm—

Dr. Steven Lin: I never take D2 supplements.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Steven Lin: Uhm— But you sh— But you should be looking at either getting sunlight but also a dietary source of D3, which only comes from animal products. So, that’s why we say animal approach. You know— We’re not pushing a kind of uh— [stutter] animal-based diet for any reason, be— besides, that’s what your nut— your body needs, nutrient-wise. And so, as long as you understand that and you kind of get a hold about what— what you’re comfortable putting into your body. That’s the main thing. That’s the main message we want to get out there.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it. [inhales] So, I’ve noticed— you know— these people that have come into the equation here that— you know— their parents didn’t eat the best diet. They kind of passed on to them a lot of nutritional deficiencies, kind of like the whole Prodinger cat theory, where— you know— the nutritional deficiencies of— of our parents are passed down to us. And then, we have the narrowing and the crowding. We have to maybe have our wisdom teeth removed. I had mine removed. Uhm— e— What can we do after the fact? Number one. Number two, I had a child, six months ago. Alright? And I see a lot of— you know— being a parent now, I see lots of kids have these helmets on. And I’m seeing that these kids are lying flat on their— you know— on their crib, and their— their skulls are becoming flatter. And I’m seeing my son, Aden, no issues with his skull. Now, my wife, high-dose cod liver oil, Vitamin D level’s in the 60 to 80. She takes about 40 grams of Collagen a day. I mean, she kind of eats a really good Paleo template, lots of good fat-soluble vitamins. So, I have to assume that the connective tissue and the bone is weaker in a lot of these kids and just a simple force of gravity on a soft mattress is enough to flatten these kids’ skulls, where I’m seeing my son’s skull’s able to stay pretty strong. I have to assume, the nutrients are playing a part in the skull. It’s also connected to what we’re seeing in the mouth. Can you comment more on that? And also, on what we can do after the fact.

Dr. Steven Lin: Yeah. That— that’s such an important point because all of these factors you’ve just mentioned are all the uh— the run-on points to a kid that needs braces when they’re ten to 12.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Steven Lin: It’s all skeletal development. That is all signs that parents can pick up that their kid perhaps isn’t developing as quickly as they should. That nice— just to go back to Price, Price— you know— sh— showed the cultures would— would feed there— uhm— They’re expecting couples for six months, at a minimum, these— these nutrient-rich dyes. They didn’t have supplements then. They would have the eggs, liver, butter, cod liver oil before, to make sure that the body was fully bone-building factors. And that’s exactly what you’ve done with your partner. Congratulations, by the way. [laughs]

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes. [crosstalk] Thank you.

Dr. Steven Lin: [laughs] Uh— But yeah. Y— Y— What you’re doing— what you did with your partner is what these cultures did for thousands of years. And so, the body— when we have the nutrients to build these skeletal systems, we build kids with round heads. And that’s what these cultures would— would say. They said, “If people eat these foods, they have kids with round heads.” That’s how they describe it’s that simple. And what we’re describing there is a child is going through crucial craniofacial development in those early years. So, breastfeeding iis one of the— the— the main factors of how we grow the— the mouth and jaw in those early…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Steven Lin: …uh— formative uh— you know— six— you know— People would breastfeed up to seven years, but I mean, first six months at a minimum. [laughs]

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Steven Lin: But yeah. You can imagine, right?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: [laughs] I know, right? [laughs]

Dr. Steven Lin: [laughs] Yeah. Probably, not a Monday uhm— But— you know— like— When we say minimum of six years because what happens is that uh— up until six— I’m sorry— si— six months not six years. Uh— because up until six months, uh— the— the childhood Larynx is actually sitting up uh— uhm— up against the— the Nasopharynx, and so they can actually suckle and breathe at the same time. And so, what happens is, six months, it all drops down and the kids can start chewing. And that’s when you probably introduce some solid foods. But so— All of that is— is how the child craniofacially is developing, and it’s connected to— What uh— used to happen actually is when a newborn was— was uh— tst— delivered, the uh— midla— midwife used to have a sharp nail on their uhm— on their pinky finger. They used to check under the tongue to see if there was a tongue-tie. And if there was a tongue-tie, which is a flap of skin under the tongue, they would cut it. And so, tongue-ties actually prevent kids from posturing uh— the— their mouth thoroughly. So, the tongue up to the roof of the palate, the lips closed, the uh— the pressing of the— the nipple up against the roof of the palate, all expands the craniofacial system. And this is all— The craniofacial system’s all connected. So, we know in studies through this that if you restrict one bone, you restrict the whole system. And so, if you get one restricting factor, so for instance, kids uh— that are posturing rods— So, kids should should sit up straight. They should breastfeed while sitting up straight while breathing through the nose, and that’s developing a uhm— uh— wide jaws and— and— and teeth that are gonna fit into a nice straight smile. So, kids that have, for instance, uhm— uh— a pressed skull in one and there’s— It’s usually asymmetrical. There’s usually a breathing issue there, too, because they’re kind of posturing a little bit to open their airways. And so, we’re already having compensation there. So, all of these are signs that we need to kind of get our kids back to uhm— you know— the— these nutrient-rich diets. The nutrients are the kind of like the uhm— the cogs and wheels of it all. So, the way your child develops and the resources you give to it and the— the strength of their bones. Now— you know— kids I see today, where I’m taking their wisdom teeth out, the— the bone is paper-thing. And I— you have to recut the gums— I have to cut the gums and then— and then drill the— the bone away. It’s paper-thin because— and I’ve taken wisdom teeth out of uhm— people with fully developed jaws, who grow up in a farm on nutrient-dense diet. The bone is— you know— this thick compared in kids, it barely i— it’s barely even deposited. And so, that’s— All of this is a sign that we don’t have the bone-building nutrients, and so— that’s why you’re child has such a rare kind of robust structure. And we— And there’s a functional component, how they breathe, how they uh— chew— how they uhm— breastfeed, but the nutrients are the core uhm— kind of the— the core roller, and the Vitamin D of the mother is passed to the child. Vitamin D of the breast milk is passed to the child. So, all of this is all kind of rotating around and it— it really will kind of dictate whether a kid needs braces in the future because you’re influencing their growth. Now, you can intervene in this as well. You can uh— i— if you correct the child to breathe through their nose, to put their tongue to the roof of their palate and close their lips, they’ll actually grow naturally. This is an area of functional denistry— dentistry called Myofunctional Orthodontics. And so, we can correct childhood growth just through function. And so, when you coupled that with nutrition, we get the kid’s Vitamin D right, the K2 right, and that getting it— eating a nutrient-dense diet, alongside uhm— you know— some great fiber and gut uh— and uh— you know— gut health uh— promoting foods. All the sudden, kids are growing as they— they desire to, and kids respond very quickly. So, don’t be disheartened if you do have a child that’s a little bit behind. You can catch up. And then we do have the model now to kind of expand kids out of the— their native palates will expand. If they need Myofunctional Therapy to reprogram that tongue and— they might need their check too to get them breathing through their nose. This is all a model of dentistry and— and uhm— functional medicine that we can intervene in. It’s important for parents to know.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, right now, the actual actions that’s the people can take if, let’s say, their child has a flatter head or they’re crowding of the teeth. The first thing they can do is, number one, get the nutrition right. And if they’re still breastfeeding, make sure the mom meets that because you can only get what you give, right? So, make sure those nutrients are going in so they come out in the breast milk, number one. Number two, if you’re kids are eating solids, get them on those foods as well. Number three, what else can be done? You talked about some exercises, where the tongues on the roof of the mouth and you close your lips. What— Is that one? ANd then, what else can people do from an exercise standpoint, and who should they see?

Dr. Steven Lin: Exercise standpoint— I mean, the— the basic premise is you want your kid breathing through their nose. So, if they’re a newborn— you know— uh— Price— he kind of uh— he found people and uhm— native Indians, for example, or Native Americans. So, uh— after a— a mother would finish breastfeeding, they would sit there and they would pinch lips shut. So, teaching a child to breathe through their nose by…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm—

Dr. Steven Lin: …habit. So, watch them when they— when they— when they look at the television, for instance. So, if you train the kid to breathe through their nose by habit— So, we need to close those lips. And so that’s a matter of getting that tongue suction to the roof of the mouth. And so—now  I wa— uh— a quick exercise is that if you suction your tongue to the roof of the mouth, then try and breath through the mouth. You physically can’t because the— the tongue creates a uhm— uh— uh— a vacuum that you can’t get through. That’s how you’re designed to breathe. Because you don’t deliver Nitric oxide through the— through the nose, you can watch your kid while they’re sleeping. Now, the— the daytime breathing actually will affect this nighttime breathing. So, a kid that— where their mouth hangs open in the night that snores, they’re being starved of Oxygen. This is all grades of sleep apnea, which uh— harming uh— neurodevelopment— brain development, and linked to ADHD and behavioral issues, because kids aren’t breathing right. So, just by going through those steps of watching over these things and reprogram a child. Get any kids to sit up straight, for instance, and getting them to posture their head directly over their— their shoulders, that is all a part of this diaphragmatic breathing system that creates uh— a head that’s sitting over your shoulders, and you— and uh— jaw that’s growing outward with straight teeth.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s great. So, this is— you know— for most parents, this is probably their dream, right? This is doctor’s orders. Put duct tape over your kids mouth at night, right? No talking and just breathing through the nose, right? We’re trying to work on that palate extension that may give some parents some extra piece as well as— as well as prove uh— you know— uhm— oral health as well. So, that’s great. A two-for-one, we call it.

Dr. Steven Lin: [laughs] Yeah. Well, one thing with the— the tape is that the taping is kind of uh— you probably seen metabolic markers been big on it. T— T—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Steven Lin: Sealing the lip— you know— the— if you can do a night of nasal breathing, you’re going to wake up like you’ve had ten coffee’s because you’re delivering uh— all that Oxygen to your brain, and you— But the p— people do have issues with this so, a child might find that, for instance, a little bit scary. So what—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Steven Lin: What I’m trying to do is— is get them to seal the lips, for instance, in waking out. So, do a half an hour exercise where we have the— the lips taped, and we do a little bit of walking and light breathing, or watching television with the lips taped. And then, they get used to it because there’s a breathing pattern there, right? So, you have to get the child reprogrammed, because mouth breathing is a survival instinct. We kind of— and getting the brain to kind of be comfortable, and it’s all about CO2 balance in the body and deep slow breathing and the— the transmission of Oxygen. When you have enough CO2. When you don’t breath into that pattern, it takes some time to kind of reprogram that. Yeah. So, there’s— there’s a road. There’s— Myofunctional Orthodontics is uh— and Myofunctional therapy are all assistants. If you go find a practitioner you could— they’ll help you with this. Uhm— And some kids will need help because— you know— say, they’re five, six or a bit older. They might need to kind of be re— re-programmed. But, it’s all about the— you know— reprogram— you know— pro— reprogramming those habits. And— and it’s i— i— just by understanding, just by supporting and changing two or three things in your child’s day, they’re gonna respond very quickly.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow. That’s amazing. I’m gonna have to have on here for a part two ’cause there’s so many more questions I— I— I want to go down because we’re just touching on so many impactful topics. That’s great. A couple of last questions here. Rapid fire. Mercury fillings, you try to avoid them in your practice and what’s your substitute?

Dr. Steven Lin: Yeah. Absolutely avoid Mercury fillings. Uh— You know— The— The problem with— you know— The— The thing about Mercury is that the— you know— I have been putting Mercury fillings in— you know— since dental school. Uhm— And uh— Not many people do. Now, the problem is that some people do have them in the uhm— you know— because they’ve been placed for the last five or six decades. Now, you can get tested for your Mercury level so if you have any symptoms, any kind of uh— thyroid, any kind of— you know— gut symptom, any kind of uhm— toxicity symptoms, any me— any kind of— In elderly people, for instance, Dementia and uhm— you know— Mental Decline, I would get tested for that— the— the— the levels. Uh— And you can— you can have safe removal via uhm— [drops something] Oops! Sorry— via uhm— wha— What they’ll do is they’ll place isolation and they’ll use a proper vacuum procedure so that they don’t get that exposure. Now, they’ve shown that once you remove that the levels do go down. So, that’s one step one.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm—

Dr. Steven Lin: Now, uhm— concept of fillings are replacement. You just want to be a bit careful though, too, because a lot of the variant have BPA.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: BPA, yeah.

Dr. Steven Lin: Yeah. So, that— that is— and there’s some issues as well with Estrogen uh— interruption, which comes of it as well. So, there’s not a lot out there, actually, that— you know— you c— uh— just check, for instance, you got a BPA-free composite. Uhm— If you have any kind  of hormonal issues uh— you just want to be a little bit careful but there’s not a lot out there, unfortunately. At this stage, that’s a reliable uhm—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Steven Lin: …dental uh—  Uh— tst— Sorry. Uhm—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Alternative?

Dr. Steven Lin: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Outside the BPA and the— the Mercury?

Dr. Steven Lin: Yeah. There’s not a lot— ‘cause the— ‘cause the thing is we need reliability with the uhm— with the restorative materials. It’s very hard to put fillings in, uhm— and so— if you have issues with either of them. And so, I’ve seen people Mercury fillings that don’t have health issues, for instance, and you know— So, I don’t think that everyone needs to go and—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Great.

Dr. Steven Lin: …lot. So, you should always go a lot with—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Test it well.

Dr. Steven Lin: —tion. Yeah. Testing. Because— you know— taking a huge Mercury filling out might actually be uh— more harmful for the tooth in your body, than actually— you know— going down the road of uhm— just monitoring it. And— you know— getting everything else right, getting your gut right and— you know— I— I— I just don’t think that people should be going— some people are really just kind of want to fly in there and remove all these things. Uh— you know— just go by case-by-case and really kind of measure what your— your body is telling you.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Get tested. Make sure you have healthy gut function, ‘cause a lot of the heavy metals are removed by the Hepatobiliary system. And if you have poor gut health, you can reabsorb a lot of these things as well. And if you’re gonna get them removed, make sure you see uh— a biologically trained dentist. Uh— I know Dr— Dr. Jason— or— no— Dr. Steven is. Uhm— But there are others here in the states, uhm— the, International Association of Oral Medical Toxicology’s a great one. I know Hal Huggins trains a lot of dentists as well, via these biological techniques, where there’s— you know— everyone’s wearing an Oxygen mask, there’s a dental dam, a cold water pick. There’s all kinds of methods, typically, even chelation will be given before and after, t— to pull up any metal that may go down the system. Eh— Any thoughts on that kind of protocol? Dr. Steven?

Dr. Steven Lin: Yeah. Absolutely. Exactly. So, everything you said there is exactly how it worked. You should be kind of looking for— ask about the uhm— their protocol of removing Amalgam so that you— uh— you know— if you do want to go down that road. They can uhm— they can use all those systems that uh— there in place. And— And so, one big thing is that there’s a— there’s a big issue with uhm— Mercury exposure to dentists because you’re drilling these things.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You have highest suicide rate out of all professions.

Dr. Steven Lin: Yeah. Yeah. And really haven’t really think that because— you know— I— I’ve taken a lot of Amalgam fillings out early in my career, and— and you know— this is before— you know—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Have you gotten your Mercury levels tested?

Dr. Steven Lin: I have. I— I— I did back in the day when I was— But I— The thing is we— we kind of moved to that— to the system. And so, once— once we did that, we— we have— it’ll move down. So, i— it does work. So, if you— you can safely remove these things, and you can uhm—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Steven Lin: Uh— [stutters] didn’t have Mercury fillings myself. Yes. So— But it’s a big issue even for dentists. Well, there’s— they’re getting a lot of exposure to— to this—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. A lot of autoimmune conditions, a lot of multiple sclerosis, for sure. Got to— Got to be careful in your environment. And last question here. Uhm— Briefly, “What’s your thoughts on Fluoride?” And again, there’s Fluoride topical, there’s Fluoride through the water supply. Just a quick overv— overview on that.

Dr. Steven Lin: Yes. So, the main thing with Fluoride, try— I try to get through is the Fluoride is a treatment. And so, we— we kind of told that it’s a preventative measure. Well, it’s not. Because everything we’ve talked about in this uhm— you know— in the last hour or so. It’s that— you know— this is the real way to prevent. You’ve got the biological systems to uh— create an immune reaction and healing process for teeth. Uh— So, Fluoride in toothpaste, for example. So, the— the concentration that Fluoride is at in your toothpaste is at the concentration that we’ve— we put into water. And so, that’s proven to be effective at systemic uh— right. So, when you constantly take it in through— through water, that will actually be integrated into your tooth enamel, which is a very small aspect of your oral health. Uh— And so— That’s why tooth Fluoride toothpaste doesn’t makes sense because it’s not a high enough concentration to have a topical effect. And so, if you do have rampant decay, there are some applications of topical Fluoride will be a higher concentration than what’s in your toothpaste. Uhm— And that would be— I would always do that with a dentist but uh— having toothpaste daily, for instance, doesn’t makes sense. Because you’re not getting any benefits topically, and— and you’re having a concentration that is based on water. And overall, with Fluoride intake in general, I’d be very careful because we know it does have interactions uh— you know— with the thyroid and many other things uh—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: IQ—

Dr. Steven Lin: …I just be— [crosstalk] If you—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …active reaction.

Dr. Steven Lin: Yeah. Like that. The— The problem there is that uh— you know— that they— there maybe a clinical application but it’s a treatment. There’s always a downside to treatment. Uh— I would make sure you go down the road of all these other things we talked about uh— before going— you know— uh— you know— thinking about Fluoride as your option for uhm— you know— preventing and reversing tooth decay.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. I think the biggest problem with it is that if you put it in the water, you know— to get Fluoride from your dentist or your physician, I mean, that’s a prescription. So, you’re putting a prescription in the water and no one’s controlling how much water you’re taking in per day, so you could be drinking a little bit and getting a little bit or drinking a lot and getting a lot. And— And we know in the United States, the CDC is on record, saying that 50 percent of cal— uhm— cavities between the ages of ten and 14 are through dental Fluorosis, which is excess Fluoride. So, I would say, Fluoride’s probably the main cause of dental cavities in this country with our middle teenage youth. Any thoughts on that?

Dr. Steven Lin: You know what, I— I— I— I really think, when you look at the physiology of the mouth, uh— Fluoride interacts with a very small— you know— if you kind of draw out a tooth, I get all those things we talked about and you looked at the oral microbiome. Fluoride affects a tiny little in-between but you got trillions of microbes here. You got the— the— the biological system of the tooth here. You’ve got— And you’ve got the Enamel here that’s taking in. This is what it does. I— It  gets incorporated to uhm— uh— Fluoride into the Hydroxyapatite…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Steven Lin: …at the Enamel. But that’s a point of— of Fluoride water. That’s a very, very small and superficial aspect of the tooth. I uh— I think we need to see it as a clinical application uh— you know— in terms of uh— you know— uh— water Fluoridation and everything else. Uh— That’s not, in my opinion, the most effective way to prevent the chao— I— I— I think everyone should be thinking alongside of understanding their teeth and biological system better. That’s all the vitamins. That’s the real way to prevent decay. Such a small aspect of how we can impact our dental health and there are systemic effects. And so, we— you really— if you have any kind of symptom that would suggest that you’re uh— you know— that the flora is perhaps into interfering with something in your body, you— your gonna need to remove them in any way. So— So, it’s— It’s a— It just doesn’t come into uh— you know— my practice because— and I don’t mention in the book, because there’s so much more important things to mention. Like, that’s— that has get— you know—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.

Dr. Steven Lin: …eating a nutrient-dense diet, and— you know— that this— [stutters] It’s— We’ve been wasting too much time on Fluoride, in my opinion.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And there’s a natural Fluoride in the water, like the Calcium fluoride. It’s like we’re not talking. It’s the Hydrofluorosilicic acid, which is more of the synthetic type.

Dr. Steven Lin: Yeah. Exactly. There’s different sources. We don’t really know— you know— how that— you know— the— the— the different uh— ways of the body.metabolizes that uhm— you know— The big thing is, is— you know— is— is with the thyroid because it does compete uhm—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. [incomprehensible]

Dr. Steven Lin: Yeah. Exactly. And that’s— that’s just simple Chemistry, right? Uhm— But that’s not really— That’s not well discussed in— in the dental realm. So, I— If you have any kind of symptoms with— you know— restlessness, sleep, any kind of uhm— mental or uhm— or— or— in the elderly’s, Dementia.. I would be thinking about trying to get— go back to nutrient-dense diet, understand if that’s all the vitamins. That’s far more effective, yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. Those are big uhm— actually there’s a lot of UK study about two years ago that talks about uhm— higher Fluoride in the communities had more incidents of Hypothyroidism because that Fluoride pitch hits for that Iodine, which can affect Thyroid hormone like you mentioned, right?

Dr. Steven Lin: Like you say, it’s— it’s directly in the uhm— you know— it’s in the same uh— chemical category. So, it’s you know— it makes complete sense. You know— I— I— Anyone with symptoms, I would definitely recommend that you uhm— you be very careful. And yet, once you put it in its context— you know— most— It’s only a very small cases— amount of cases. We really use it anyway.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. Well, last question here for you Dr. Steven. Uhm— Real quick. So, what’s your take on— what’s your take on root canals? Are they necessary if someone’s to— tooth is that bad, do you recommend that being pulled out? Do you do an implant? Do you do a bridge? What’s your take? Can it be prevented? If it can’t be prevented, what should someone do?

Dr. Steven Lin: So, similar to what we’re talking about uhm— so, that— those early grades of decay, root canals, generally what happens when you have that decay eating down into the pulp of the tooth.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Pulp, right.

Dr. Steven Lin: And [crosstalk] what happens—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: The third layer.

Dr. Steven Lin: Exactly. The third layer of the tooth. And so, what happens is that uh— you— your body emits an immune reaction. And so, often what can happen is that the— the pulp can die, and when it’s— when it’s dead, it can’t uhm— emit that immune reaction anymore. And so, once it goes past this point, we call it a Pulpitis. So, when you have a toothache, we call it uh— they call it Reversible or Irreversible Pulpitis. And so, the reversible type will actually kind of be a toothache that can go away. The irreversible type is where the tooth is— is dead, and so that’s where [stutters] there’ll be an infection source that no immune response in the tooth. And that’s either when you need a root canal therapy, which is like a filling inside the tooth, a disinfection of those canals of the— that infected pulp and a filing inside, or you take the tooth out and put replacement options. Now, I’ve seen some— you know— many root canal therapies. What happens is, in irreversible Pulpitis, uh— you get this abscess at the bottom of the tooth and then uhm— root canals are designed to take that out. I’ve seen healing in them so I think there’s some application for root canal therapy because I don’t uhm— Taking teeth out isn’t always applicable for everyone. When you remove a tooth, you need to kind of— So, there’s a lot of things we need to consider. Uhm— when you remove a tooth, you need to think about— you know— what kind of replacement options I— you know— bridges and crowns I will— So, bridges are quite uhm— they do have a limited lifespan. Uh— implants are gonna [inaudible] Uh— if there are any issues or anything you don’t uhm— you know, we uh— If you have any problems with implants, it’s gonna be— you’re gonna be very limited, clinically, what we can do with it. So, there are limitations to the treatments we can do. You always needs to be thinking about that once you get to Irre— Irreversible Pulpitis, you just need to understand that it is a— a compromised situation. We’re gonna need to use a compromised uhm— kind of uh— outcome. A ceramic implant is great if you can afford it. Uh— But root canals in some situations, I think maybe helpful to keep your tooth for a few years. Uh— Otherwise, if it’s any symptoms, if it’s any signs of uh— coinfection, if you have an old root canal, for instance, that is symptomatic or on radiograph it’s got uh— You can also have a more in-depth scan [stutters] So, if you have uh— a root canal that’s— and you have other symptoms of infection, I would definitely think— think about removing it because these canals are very, very detailed, and so, it’s very hard to kind of get these. They seem to be clinically correct sometimes— you know— we just have these ongoing infection, in which case, they need to be removed.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And so, regarding a root canal, imagine patiently drilling into the tooth, and what? Sucking down that layer and on the nerve of the nerve flow that goes up into the tooth and the pulp. Is that what a root canal officially is?

Dr. Steven Lin: Exactly. So, we’re basically putting a filling inside the tooth. So, we open it up, the first session is where we kind of take all the infected necrotic tissue out. Sometimes, there’s still blood supply there. Uhm— ANd then, you basically go back and you’re putting uh— antimicrobial uhm— uh— Calcium hydroxide, usually, into the pulp— uhm— uh— into the pulp chamber to disinfect it as much as we can. Yeah. So, the idea is that once it’s disinfected, we can then fill it, And then, the tooth is sealed with other filling or a crown, and then we can move on from— from there. So, that’s generally the principle. The problems with it is that it’s a very, very, very finicky uhm— procedure. I think someti— times, you may be able to get a good a uh— good result out of it, but I mean, uh— other times extraction and— and it really depends on the tooth structure left as well. So, it’s— it’s a— You want to have a close conversation with your dentist about it to see what they’re recommending. If you feel okay with that, if they feel okay with it, that really is the— because root canals are— you know— trying to solve a— a problem that is— is— is difficult.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And basically, you’d say you did it if you’re— if you’re deeper into that third layer of the pulp. Infection-wise, that’s where you think you would need it, and you would try to use the natural means and monitor it first.

Dr. Steven Lin: Yeah. If you’ve got so— I mean, what happens when— when you have a toothache or having an irrever— a reversible pulp is your body releases Osteocalcin. So, they’ve showed that people uhm— uh— that actually don’t progress into an Irreversible Pulpitis have more Osteocalcin init. And that’s so stimulated by Vitamin A and D, of course. But then, you need that K2 to activate it. So, you do have a chance. If you go to toothache, for instance, with the grade 3, grade 4, grade 5— Grade 5 is gonna be tougher ‘cause it’s uh— it’s deeper infection. Uhm— Then, that— Then that— The protocol we— we talked about in this is gonna really help you uh— potentially s— prevent going to an Irreversible Pulpitis, Because uhm— generally what uh— conventional dental uhm— medicine tells us is that there’s no way to predict that. But the body has healing mechanisms there. So, you do have the chance and so, I would try that. If your bo— If your tooth is still vital, if you still have any kind of uhm— you know— signs that you don’t have active infection there, I would— you need to go down the roads of uhm— you know— correcting uh— physiologically, first.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And if someone’s already had a root canal, would you recommend them keep it or get it pulled? And if someone’s on the fence of whether they should get a root canal, would you push him in one direction or the other?

Dr. Steven Lin: It really depends on the situation. So, if there’s any signs of infection, I would suggest removing. Uhm— If— If the tooth is— if you don’t have any other symptoms, you don’t have any other health problems, the tooth’s sitting there fine— you know— just monitor it closely. Uh— If you’re going down the road of root uh— you need to assess how much tooth structure is there, uh— you know— how confident the dentist is to get a seal uh— because that’s go— what’s going to ultimately uhm— uh— you know— suggest how— how viable the tooth will be into the future. I think root canals— you know— are useful to maintain some teeth. Uh— If you— If you have the option of getting a ceramic implant, that’s a great option because it’s the most biologically kind of compatible uhm— and— and you know— That’s ultimately what we want, but that’s very expensive and not available to everyone. So, there’s a lot of different things you got to kind of taken into account.  

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Dr. Steven, thank you so much. You dropped some serious knowledge bombs today. Again, everyone listening, click below. Get Dr. Steven’s book on Amazon. Support the cause. Great information there. Dr. Steven, I want to get you back in a few months. There’s so many more questions that we have from the listeners, and you just get s— your wealth in knowledge. So, I want to get you back here soon. Thank you so much. Everyone listening live, give us a thumbs up. Give us a share so we can get more people’s dental health uh— improved in the right direction. Anything else Dr. Steven you want to say? Again, your book’s the Dental Diet. It’s on Amazon. We’ll put the link below. Uh— Your website is

Dr. Steven Lin: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: L-I-N dot(.) com.

Dr. Steven Lin: Yeah. That’s— you know— It’s been a great conversation. I like this functional and dental conversation. I— I really think we need to have it soon. Thank you very much for having me. And— you know— this stuff and understanding the mouth and how diet affects the jaw, preventing braces, preventing uhm— you know— root canals, gum disease— we need to think about this stuff because all the problems we see down the road really uh— just a tribute of not understanding what we put in our mouth to start with.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And if someone wants to consult with you, could they send you over their history or their— their X-rays and stuff to get your opinion on what’s going on? Is that available?

Dr. Steven Lin: Uh, yes. So, I do do consults on uhm— Uh— We haven’t open that up yet, just with the book stuff uh— But if you go to my website, there’s a contact form there and we do have forums, and there’s an online program there that I can jump on, especially for parents, who are looking to kind of help their kids breathings. So, jump on it and check that out because it’s— it’s a great way to kind of help uh— understand all the— the things you can do at home.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it. Well, you’re gonna be a phenomenal resource for me and my patients as well. So, if you guys are on the fence and need an extra set of eyes on things, I think that’s gonna be a phenomenal resource, Dr. Steven.

Dr. Steven Lin: Absolutely there, yeah. I— I’m looking forward to chatting more. Uh— Let’s definitely do this again.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You got it, man. We’ll do it real soon. Hey. You have a phenomenal day. You take care now.

Dr. Steven Lin: You too, buddy.


“Nutrition and Physical Degeneration” by Weston A. Price

“Dental Diet” by Dr. Steven Lin:

Beverly Meyer – GABA, Vitamin K2, and Weston A Price – Podcast #51

Dr. Justin Marchegiani invites Beverly Meyers for this podcast interview and gives us a lot of information about Vitamin K and GABA and why there is a need to get our neurotransmitters well-balanced. They also discuss protein digestion and its importance for GABA production.
Beverly Meyers

Beverly Meyer has been a nutritionist for the past 30 years and she shares with us her own story battling with Celiac, Addison’s and Graves’ disease as well as transitioning off the pharmaceuticals onto the more natural herbal approach. Discover more about the Paleo diet and whether one can get enough Vitamin K from a food-based source. This interview also touches upon the impact of dental health has on one’s growth and the uses of EFT or Emotional Freedom Techniques.

In this episode, topics include:

1:20   The neurotransmitter GABA

6:06   The neurotransmitter GABA

24:55   Weston A. Price and his nutritional journey

28:10   Activator X and vitamin K2

41:20   1 pill for 1 ill, diet comes first








Podcast: Play in New Window|Download

Info on Beverly Meyer: Beverly has been a nutritionist for over 30 years in San Antonio, Texas and is the author of the DVD titled, The Diet For Human Beings. She is a gluten-free Paleo Nutritionist and Natural Health practitioner. She is a blogger, podcaster, patient, animal lover, and sometimes a pretty funny person.  Her goal is to help you (and herself) feel better!

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Hey, there!  It’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani here with Beyond Wellness Radio and we got Beverly Meyer?  Did I say it right, Bev?

Beverly Meyer:  Yes, that’s right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Great!  Awesome!  And Bev’s website is and Beverly, we’re really happy to have you on the show today.

Beverly Meyer:  Thanks for having me on, Justin.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Alright, great!  Well, I’m on your site right now and I know, you know, you’ve put a lot of information out there on Vitamin K and GABA, and I kinda wanna get a take on where you wanted to start?

Beverly Meyer:  Well, let’s talk about GABA because it’s–it’s a trans–neurotransmitter that most people including your regular physicians have never heard about.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Beverly Meyer:  And yet it’s been a life-changing discovery for me when I found out 10 or 15 years ago that I basically had a life-threatening deficiency in the neurotransmitter GABA.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Hmm.

Beverly Meyer:  So let me give you a really short course in neurotransmitters and I write about this a lot in the blog.  Basically, there are 4 main neurotransmitters.  Two that are excitatory, I call them the go-gos.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Ahh.

Beverly Meyer:  Dopamine and acetylcholine.  They help us work and focus and move and think and–and burn and–and go.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Beverly Meyer:  And then there’s two inhibitory neurotransmitters, serotonin and GABA.  G-A-B-A.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Beverly Meyer:  And these help us relax the muscles and digest our food and sleep and laugh and make love and–and just be at ease.  And it’s like the 4 tires on your car.  You need the 4 neurotransmitters really, really well-balanced or your brain, the electricity in your brain does not fire properly.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Got it.  Got it.

Beverly Meyer:  This is really cool because it’s–serotonin and GABA, everybody’s heard of serotonin and you may not know what it is or what it does except you can associate it with the word depression, but it does so much more than that, and GABA also has–has many, even dozens of functions in the body as the serotonin, but they’re like brakes in your car.  And if–if all you do is give it the gas, give it the go, go, go, go, which is kind of how we are living today in modern life.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Beverly Meyer:  Everything is a go and a sudden and a right now and an or else which is very sympathetic nervous system.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Beverly Meyer:  And it’s GABA and serotonin’s job to help keep us in that parasympathetic mode where we are healthy and happy.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Okay, got it and that parasympathetic is the healing, relaxation, digestion.  Where the sympathetic is the–the go, go, go, stress, stress, stress, break down, break down.

Beverly Meyer:  Yeah, and there’s the–the go-go neurotransmitters are not necessarily sympathetic nervous system but they are very active.  You know, the work, the move, the exercise, the, you know, physical and emotional focus.  But we’re also locked up into anxiety and insomnia and perfection and speed these days that it’s really easy to–to burn out these neurotransmitters that help keep us calm and GABA has a strong relationship with gluten and gluten antibodies also, so–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Ahh!

Beverly Meyer:  Yeah, so that was a real key for me, it’s that it’s–it–it’s like okay but why does it get so low, I could take and passion flower and help support my GABA every day for the rest of my life but it would be nice to know how did I get this way, wired and tired.  How did I get so burnt out and exhausted?  But I can’t sleep and so this–this ties right in with adrenal burnout.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Got it.   So can you talk about protein to–

Beverly Meyer:  But um, uh-oh, yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Go ahead.  Yeah, can you hear me okay?

Beverly Meyer:  Yeah, I was gonna say I forgot where I was gonna go with that sentence so, but that I’ll turn it back to you for the next question.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, no problem.  So protein, right?  All protein becomes broken down into amino acid and amino acids essentially can become, L-tryptophan will become our serotonin, the L-tyrosine to our dopamine.  Can you talk about how protein digestion is important for GABA production as well?

Beverly Meyer:  Well, no.  Actually, that’s the chemistry of how we produce GABA is not something that I’m particularly familiar with so I can’t talk about that.  But–but I can tell you that we naturally produce GABA but we can run short of it if we overuse it.  And yes, like all amino acids it’s–it is based in some form of a protein breakdown–breakdown but of course, there are many enzymatic reactions that have to happen for anything you eat to become something else.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.  Isn’t L-theanine one of the main amino acids behind making GABA?

Beverly Meyer:  I don’t think it’s a component of GABA.  It’s–it actually kind of helps, well, it helps your body produce GABA and/or as a substitute for GABA and theanine is something that–that many people do tolerate, many people don’t tolerate it, and it can–some people have really great results with theanine.  Personally, I never did.  It just–it just didn’t work for me.  I think I probably was missing some of those co-factors–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Co-factors.

Beverly Meyer:  To–uh-huh.  To help shift it and that’s when I found that the passion flower did a much better job for me.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  How does the passion flower help increase GABA?

Beverly Meyer:  Well, it’s got all the raw materials and it basically just says, “Here.  Here’s the GABA, do you want it?”  At as–trying to buy a supplement called GABA on your shelf.  Strangely, straight GABA is actually not the right thing to take.  The GABA itself has to be in a form that’s slightly altered for your body to be able to use it as a supplement.  So it can be called pharmaGABA or phenibut, but it’s phenylbutyric acid and phenyl–well, it’s a longer word than that but that’s one way that you can try GABA.  So there–there are different ways you can try it, the pharmaGABA, the passion flower, some theanine.  But some interesting things have also produced GABA and that is alcohol, heroine, and marijuana.  And one of the whole series on addiction is that basically our brain say, “You know I am in such need of GABA that I will turn to alcohol, heroine, or marijuana to provide that GABA that I need to survive.”  It’s kinda–kind of a different way to think about–I have a lot more compassion for people now that I realize, “Wow, they were really out of GABA, too, just kinda like me,” and I didn’t end up as bad as that but I had basically what was finally diagnosed as partial seizure disorder.  And–and I actually started on low-dose anti-epileptics about 15 years ago and I’m telling you within a week, I felt like a new person.  It–it really gave me hope that, “Well, I’m not going to just die or fade away at the age of 50-something that I can–I can come back and, of course, I don’t take those anymore,”  but they provided a pharmaceutical, a form of GABA, that my brain could use to manage the brain waves.  Because that’s what we’re talking about.  We’re talking about electricity in the brain and GABA governs them, the even stability of electrical flow from left to right in the brain, and so you can imagine if it’s out of balance, if it’s unstable, the GABA deficiency symptoms which I write a lot about can be diarrhea or constipation, high blood pressure or–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Beverly Meyer:  Low blood pressure, insomnia, or even narcolepsy.  Excess sweating–so GABA is all about stability and–and thinking that the brain does not obsess about those 75 emails that you didn’t do or that one that you did.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Beverly Meyer:  All that obsessive OCD stuff that a lot of us don’t acknowledge that we–we really are struggling with.  It’s very GABA-related and–and people get hold of couple of bottles of passion flower.  I have those in my online store and you stick in your–your purse, your kitchen, your car, your kids’ backpack and life becomes a lot easier.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Got it, got it.  And I know you mentioned addiction and drugs, they’re–they’re basically stimulating GABA, right?  I mean, it’s not a building block for GABA.  It’s kinda like whipping a tired horse, is that correct?

Beverly Meyer:  Well, they’re not repairing–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Beverly Meyer:  The temporal lobe–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Stored.

Beverly Meyer:  Malfunction.  They’re not restorative but they are providing.  We all know that, you know, for most people if you’ve had a hard day and you have a glass of wine, you tend to relax.  I mean, it’s–there it is.  So it is providing some of that GABA as a relief but–but and obviously we have to look at the lifestyle factor that have caused your brain to be so overloaded.  And remember earlier I was starting to mention that there is a gluten antibody linked here as well and that ties in to what are called the GAD65 enzymes.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  GAD65, right.

Beverly Meyer:  Yeah, and–and very related to GABA utilization in the body but can also be hampered by gluten antibodies.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right, and that’s those dysdiadochokinesia type of movements where people may be have those jitters, almost like an intention tremor so to speak and you can see that and gluten can easily–gluten antibodies can easily be created that actually go in and attack that GAD65 enzyme which actually create that GABA, correct?

Beverly Meyer:  Right.  And remember when you talk about any kind of a tremor, what you’re talking about is exactly that unstable firing that I was talking about.  It’s kind of like part of the brain is firing–tu, tu, tut, tut–tu, dut–tu, tu, tu, tu, tud–tut–if you will.  And–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Beverly Meyer:  The–instead of just an even–tut–I’m just making this up.  But instead of an even tut, tut, tut, tut, tut, tut, that you want.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Beverly Meyer:  And–and so yes, active tremors are–are and Tourette’s, ataxia, stumbling, these can be very strong clues for–for severe GABA deficiencies.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And obviously giving someone passion flower that has a gluten sensitivity and they’re making all these GAD65 antibodies, you have to get them off the gluten, right?

Beverly Meyer:  Absolutely.  That’s the–my motto on my website and my podcast, is food first, that we’re not running lab tests, we’re not doing anything.  I’m taking your history but until we get your diet really, really clean and get everything we can think of that might have some antibody and blood sugar impact on your body, ‘til we get that stuff out and get the nutrient-dense rich foods and fats in there, then we start over and completely take the history from scratch, because you’re a completely different person.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Exactly.  Now there are a lot of people that say GABA can’t cross the blood brain barrier.  It’s too big of an amino acid.  So what’s your take on giving an herb like passion flower, giving an amino acid like L-theanine, and then also doing the pharmaGABA sublinguals?  What’s your take on those three?

Beverly Meyer:  Well, that’s the reason why you don’t use straight–a product that’s just called straight GABA and this is a little odd, but straight GABA can cross the blood brain barrier but that’s one reason why you don’t want to use it.  I know that sounds backwards but this is why you want the–the phenyl–phenylbuterate form of it that it actually has a different pathway.  So if–if someone takes straight cheap GABA, just GABA on the label, and feels calmer and much more relaxed, that’s actually diagnostic of–of what we call leaky brain syndrome, just like there’s leaky gut.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right, yeah.

Beverly Meyer:  Leaky–leaky brain, leaky lung, leaky gut.  The three big–three big places that we leak.  So–so GABA is not supposed to be able to cross the blood brain barrier but the altered form can and this is also where the herb seems to do just a stellar job, is that it–it enables that package to be delivered.  And–and it doesn’t have to be sublingual.  It–it can be a pill.  Sublingual is fine, too, for the–the phenylbuterated form.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Got it.  So if someone’s taking GABA and they’re getting a benefit from it, and we know such a large percent of the population more than likely has leaky gut just from grains and stress and infections, etc.  Does that mean someone shouldn’t use GABA if they’re getting a benefit from it, if they’re getting that right relaxation effect?

Beverly Meyer:  No, but it does mean that they need to come and talk to Dr. Justin and find out how they’re gonna help manage the antibodies and the leaky gut, and the–all those debris and–and inflammation in the body.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Got it.  So what you’re saying it’s a sign of something deeper, it’s okay to use it but you really got to put your attention on the gut, the diet, the stress, the sleep, the whole nine yards, the big picture, right?

Beverly Meyer:  Absolutely.  It’s all about food and lifestyle.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Wow!  I know we’re kinda just got into the GABA part and it’s–it’s very interesting.  Can you tie this back a little bit into your story?  Because you’ve been a nutritionist for a very long time.  I think 30 years, you said.  Can you talk more about your story and then kinda get back in–into what we’re talking about here?

Beverly Meyer:  Yes, I’m in my 60s and I saw my first natural health practitioner in 1972, when–when the even the word natural health practitioner was a very odd thing to say.  People had no idea what you were talking about.  So this body is–just had a hard time and it wasn’t until I was in my 40s that–that the celiac disease got confirmed.  I’d already been off of wheat, but when I discovered how much better I felt off of gluten and then off of all the grains and then off of all the dairy and then off of nuts and then off of nightshades and then off of eggs, I laughed with people in–in the Paleo diet when I have them on my show or I’m on their shows and I say, “You know, I was eating Paleo before it had a name.”  So I just–I just figured this stuff out for myself because I’d been really so sick most all of my life and I’ve also had a history of extremely poor adrenal function.  The first saliva test I ever ran on anybody was on myself and when I got it back, there was just a little flat straight line and number 1 straight across the bottom of the page.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Wow.

Beverly Meyer:  And I called the lab and I said, “There’s something wrong with your report.  It–it–there’s no cortisol here.”  And I didn’t tell them it was me and they said, “Well, you know, you need to call this patient.  They need to be in the hospital immediately.”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Whoa.

Beverly Meyer:  I said, “Well, you’re talking to her.”  And I have 2 patients after this, so you know, that was a big wake up call for me.  I had severe Epstein-Barr Virus at the time.  I had a really bad concussion.  I was going into menopause.  You know, you just–wow, really, really bad time and I never did get–which is what they told me.  But I did understand that it was time to–to really seriously get help or I was not gonna make it.  So that was quite some time ago but here I am, you know, running my businesses and podcasts, and I don’t travel to Costa Rica or whatever anymore.  I don’t–I just don’t do that.  I control my environment and my food very carefully and then things in this body work–work pretty well.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Also you had the autoimmune condition Addison’s where you were literally attacking your adrenal glands.

Beverly Meyer:  Yes, absolutely.  Celiac, Addison’s and Graves’ disease on top.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Wow.

Beverly Meyer:  So my poor thyroid since I didn’t have any adrenal function, the thyroid was in high gear trying to help me, you know, stand up and pump blood and then the–the gluten wasn’t all out at that time either.  So that kinda took the thyroid out but I knew I could get that back and that’s when I went and basically said, “Alright, what’s underneath all of this?”  And that’s when I found out about the–the electrical malfunction in my brain and the–the temporal lobe–temporal lobe dysfunction where the GABA is–is working.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So the first thing you did was to kind of help balance that brain chemistry for you.  Was it the passion flower or were you doing the sublingual GABA?

Beverly Meyer:  No, the first thing I did was get on a low-dose anti-epileptics.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Okay.

Beverly Meyer:  And that’s because, you know, when I–I had an amazing neurologist of which there–there is no one like him.  He’s–he’s a crazy man but he totally saved my life.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Wow.

Beverly Meyer:  And but he, you know, he showed–we did–he does very elaborate testing and brain scans, stuff nobody else does and he said, “You know, you have no GABA function.  You’re at 15% of normal, and you know, that you’re probably having low grade seizures and probably have had them for a long time.”  And I burst into tears and it was, you know, he was like, “Oh, don’t be upset.”  I’m like, “I’m not upset.  I’m so happy.”  You know, when somebody finds an answer, you know, that–that gives you a whole new sense and he said, “Well, I know your background, you’re–you do naturopathic counseling and herbs and supplements and foods, would you be willing to take a prescription drug?”  And I burst into tears again and I said, “You had me at the word seizures.”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Wow.

Beverly Meyer:  So I took very low dose drugs and with a lot of muscle testing to confirm which drug would work best for me and what dose and he–this man was brave enough that he honored that.  He said, “You tell me which of these you handled the best and what dose is right for you.”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And so how did you transition off the pharmaceuticals onto the more natural herbal approach?

Beverly Meyer:  Basically I–at that point, I–I just stopped working and basically stayed home in a beautiful environment that I have here with nature and animals, my 2 horses, and just basically kinda withdrew to the cave, well, you know, went to ground to just eat and–and rest and not have obligations because it’s this constant pressure on us now for–for performance, obligation, and speed that I think is–is really killing us and so I’m kind of on a mission to help people.  Look let’s get this diet but then the next thing we gotta do is, you know, is we gotta take a serious look at your life and your belief structure.  You know, all these leftover stuff from your parents multiplied by a hundred, you know, by everything, your peers and on TV and stuff, and learn how to take control of your own life and say, “You know what?  That doesn’t work for me and–and I’m not gonna do that.”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Got it, got it.  So you were on these epileptic drugs to help balance the brain chemistry and then you transitioned over to the–some of the herbal approach and that made a–a big difference.  You were able to come off the drugs when you transitioned over?

Beverly Meyer:  Yes, and that’s also when I found out that I did have celiac and so–and then running a–the Cyrex Labs Array for gluten antibodies and–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So 5, Array 5 on that one?

Beverly Meyer:  It used to have the GAD65 antibodies in–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Beverly Meyer:  With the gluten and they no longer do.  And that’s when it all went, you know, ding in my brain that, “Oh, my gosh, this is a–coming from a lifetime of gluten and so on.”  And so you just–you keep finding out where to do and tightening it up as–as you go.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And when you’re working with your patients getting them to go gluten-free, are you doing just a straight gluten-free or are you doing a grain-free where you’re getting them off of all grains?

Beverly Meyer:  No, I’m–I strongly encourage them to go full Paleo, as–as strong and as far and as fast as they can because I want people–we all know that if–if you’re drinking 12 Cokes a day, you know, you’re gonna feel a little better if you get down to 6 Cokes a day–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Beverly Meyer:  But you know, you–you really don’t know who you are or what your chemistry is all about until you get to a–I call it, go to your corner.  You know, it’s like when you’re in a–a boxer and you’re in in your fight and they ring that bell.  You go to your corner and–and you get taken care of in that corner.  You get to sit down, you get–you get water, you get to rest, you don’t have to think about anything.  You know it’s your safe place.  And I want people to experience a big enough change in food can create a place where they can feel, “Oh, I feel much better.”  And that if they stray out of that, they can experiment with, “Okay, that didn’t work,” or “Well, okay, that wasn’t so bad, as long as I only did it once or twice,” and this, the whole point as you know, Justin, is to give people the power to–to take care–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Beverly Meyer:  Of themselves and not be relying on you, otherwise, we’d each have a million clients, and–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Beverly Meyer:  You know, we’re overbooked and we’re overworked, too.  And we want to people to understand here’s what I think your biggest areas you can help yourself are and–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Beverly Meyer:  And I’m gonna hammer at these until I feel like you’re–you’re getting somewhere and then we’re gonna look at the adrenals and some supplements and this and that and mercury fillings and all the rest.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, that’s a good approach and with my patients very similar–almost all patients for the first month, at least we’re on a strict autoimmune Paleo approach where it’s really just meat and vegetables and maybe a little bit of low sugar fruit and again, no–not even white rice.  Again Paleo has kind of been co-opted a little bit where white rice is now Paleo and potatoes, white potatoes are Paleo, so I just keep it really strict to an autoimmune Paleo and it sounds like you’re doing something very similar.

Beverly Meyer:  Absolutely and–and you know, when sometimes people have that–a rough time the first week or so because they’re so addicted to the gluten and the dairy and the sugars and all that, but some people, you know, within 36 hours, they’re already like a new person and–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Beverly Meyer:  And then they trust you.  They’re like, “Oh, my gosh!  This is a little hard, but wow!  I think my whole life is about to change.  What do I do next?”  And–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Beverly Meyer:  They’re excited for what’s gonna come next.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, diet is one of the biggest factors that can push your body into a pro-inflammatory, you know, you’re inflamed to an anti-inflammatory state where you’re healing and that has a huge effect on the gut like you mentioned, if you have GAD65, you’re–you’re messing up your brain.  If you have GAD65, you probably also have a leaky guy going on there.  Can you talk about how brain health and how GABA is tied in with the gut especially if you have a leaky gut issue?

Beverly Meyer:  Our genetics are a little bit in trouble as it is.  Our genetics are a little bit in trouble.  We’re–we’re not born very strong right now, a lot of us.  We’re already having problems as-as children and so, we’re not developing the strong immune systems that–that we should be.  So it–it really does get back to the generational strength of the immune system and what we’re fed.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Wow!  Because I know in the pre-interview we were talking about that.  We were talking about Weston A. Price and the Activator X and Vitamin K.  I think this is a really good time to shift gears a little bit and talk about some of Weston A. Price’s work and kind of dovetail into Vitamin K and how that’s so important as we grow over the structure of our face and health.

Beverly Meyer:  Well, yes and the first thing I wanna say about Weston Price is that the–the man was incredibly brilliant.  His work is incredibly brilliant and it’s–to me it’s a shame that a lot of people have taken his work and used that as an excuse to eat non-stop, you know, wheat and rice and oats and–and bread as–as long–­but I soaked it first–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Beverly Meyer:  Before I eat, so I just have to throw it in there that I–no matter how many great things I say about Weston Price, it’s what some of us have done with his work that I just wanna caution people about, but Weston Price was like the original Jungle Man, you know.  He–in his–he was already well up in age in his–in the 1930s, 1940s as a dentist, and his patients’ teeth were falling apart, you know, each generation would come in and like they’re–they’re faces were getting narrow, they’re palates were more V-shaped–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Beverly Meyer:  Instead of a wide U–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Beverly Meyer:  Shape.  The teeth were crowded.  They were having health problems.  The narrow chins, receding chins, and he was determined that this had something to do with nutrition and that he wanted to find out what.  So he went all over the world with his wife, back in times when, you know, you had to take 17 trains and 3 camels–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Beverly Meyer:  To get anywhere.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Absolutely.

Beverly Meyer:  And then lived with isolated peoples from the Outer Hebrides in Scotland and–and up in, you know, at the Inuit, the Eskimo, the African tribes, whatever and he spent years with people cataloguing what they ate and what they used–oh, that particular oyster or mussel they used and when do you use that?  Oh, you used that as soon as the woman knows she’s pregnant.  That’s really interesting.  He documented all these stuff and took thousands of photographs of big wide smiling cheekbones which these people had and they had all of their adult teeth and no cavities.  And when he put all his research together, what it all boiled down to–this is so interesting–his book, Physical Degener–Nutrition and Physical Degeneration–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Degeneration, right.

Beverly Meyer:  Is a really interesting book.  It’s not a hideous, boring textbook.  It’s actually really pretty interesting, but anyway, he put all this research together and said, “Here’s the bottom line.  No matter where you are, no matter what you eat, all these people I spoke with had 10 times the amount of Vitamin A, X-factor,” that he said these are fat-soluble vitamins and they have 10 times the amount we have in the United States in the 1930s and 40s, and golly, we were still eating organic and fresh ground nuts and seeds then.  So that’s–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Exactly.  There was no conventional food back then.

Beverly Meyer:  No.  So we were eating pretty well, but as he said, people’s facial structure was already collapsing in and that’s–that was his impetus to–to research this.  So it turns that his X–Activator X is what we know as Vitamin K2, not K1 but K2, and that indeed A, D, and K really must be all taken.  You–you don’t wanna just have 1 or 2 without the others, and that’s why cod liver oil has Vitamin A and Vitamin D but it has no Vitamin K.  So you–you must take supplemental K2 if you’re gonna take any kind of Vitamin D and that includes the cod liver oil.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And what if you had enough grass-fed butter in your diet?

Beverly Meyer:  Well–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Would that be enough for the Vitamin K2?

Beverly Meyer:  Possible and that’s a good question, Justin.  It–the–the best ways I can tell people to read a quick summary is on my website.  There’s a blog post on–there’s two blog posts on Vitamin K2.  One, for its effect on heart disease and the arteries and plaque in the arteries; and the other is on structure of your face and facial bones and cheekbones and your teeth.  And there’s a podcast, too.  So, people can really get deeply into this and what was your question?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yes, we were just talking about it–because the big sources of Vitamin K2 from what–

Beverly Meyer:  Oh, yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I know is grass-fed butter, also egg yolks as well.

Beverly Meyer:  Yes.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So if someone is consuming good healthy egg yolks and good healthy grass-fed butter, can they get enough Vitamin K in that from a food-based source?

Beverly Meyer:  Possibly.  Possibly.  Possibly.  And the pastured egg yolks contain some Vitamin K.  Pastured, spring, grass-fed, organic butter has some Vitamin K, but not a lot.  It’s–it’s, you know, you’d have to eat like 10 lbs of butter a week or something.  I forget the statistics, it’s on my blog post.  But the combination of–of true, fermented foods, pastured egg yolks, pastured butter, and then of course, the more pastured animal fats and organs we eat, we–we can accumulate and–and maintain some Vitamin K, but really at this point at my life, the only supplements I take are Vitamin D and Vitamin K2, and in the summer, I don’t really take much D because I’m out with the horses.  So the other richest source of Vitamin K, it’s emu oil.  But a particular emu oil, it’s–it’s in my story.  You may wanna put it in yours, too, and it’s a heritage species of emu.  It’s not the emu oil people use for cosmetics and massage lotions.  But these are from male emus and they–they have this fat storage like a back strap down their–down their backs and the males, emus, sit on the eggs for 6 weeks and live on this Vitamin K fat storage and the other nutrients that are–that are there.  They live on that.  They never leave the nest and–omega 3, 6, 9, anti-inflammatory, nutrient-dense food and you can get it in a capsule.  It’s called Walkabout– Walkabout Emu Oil.  It’s pretty amazing stuff.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Wow!  Very cool!  So you’re kind of taken us down the story of Weston A. Price and all the different cultures he discovered and I think he even came into the conclusion that the healthiest cultures are the ones that were eating animal products and also to note, I think Price actually went into this as a vegetarian or thinking that the vegetarian diets were going to be the healthiest but I think that he found the opposite.  Is that correct?

Beverly Meyer:  Yeah, he just said, he had an open mind.  He was just, you know, he was just a wonderful person.  He said, “You know, something’s wrong with people, our bodies–”  He calls it–he calls it injuries, facial injuries.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Beverly Meyer:  That–that you have the narrow face and narrow chin and narrow palate and receding chin, and narrow hips.  He said this was gonna lead to fertility problems and depressions and anxieties and dental problems, and all these stuff.  He totally predicted it all and–and really I’m kind of a poster child for, you know, Weston Price will take one look at me and he–he’d say, “See, there you go.  That’s exactly what I predicted.”  Because I am–I’m very–I’m very tall but very narrow, and you know, my whole body is–is that way but my palate is, too.  And that seems to be my latest breakthrough in the last couple of years is discovering that I can re-shape my palate even at my age and take the–move my lower chin forward just by wearing some dental appliances, not by surgery, and take the pressure off the brain stem and all of this.  I just–I had a miraculous decrease of my anxiety as I just began to move the tiniest bit of–to move my lower chin forward.  So it’s just–it’s really interesting work.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So how does–how does someone find someone that specializes in that type of work?

Beverly Meyer:  Yeah, good question. There–there’s some information about that on my website, but if you do some search, there–there’s a whole new types of dentists now, just like in naturopathic doctors.  There’s new types of dentist now.  There’s a field they call sleep dentistry.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Beverly Meyer:  And the sleep dentist can go one of two ways.  They may go into the CPAP to this we’re gonna fix your–your sleep problems but you’re gonna have to wear this CPAP and to have surgery on your airway, etc.  Or the other ones that say, the problem is–is that your lower jaw is compressing back on your airway and you’re tongue is in the wrong place.  You don’t hold your tongue out well.  And they have, I call them retainers, but they’re–they’re mouth pieces, mouth appliances.  Some you wear in the day and some you wear at night that just re-positioned the jaw and the ones at night actually holds your jaw open for you, just enough to open the airway.  So you don’t want jaw surgery, so you can look for the more enlightened dentist–you can even–you can Google sleep dentistry in your area.  The name of one of the dental appliances is called the Mora, M-O-R-A.  M-O-R-A.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Got it.

Beverly Meyer:  And there’s another one called, Alf, A-L-F, and there are now also pediatric orthodontists that are getting into this big time because they’re seeing these young patients coming in, you know, 3, 4, 5 years old already with these narrow pointed chins and they know they got a lifetime of dental problems ahead of them so they start the youngsters on a kind of like an athlete puts in his mouth before he goes to play football–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Beverly Meyer:  But they’re not, you know, so hideous but they’re little soft, pliable shapers that they teach the children to wear when they sleep, so that they–while their jaws are really malleable, can–can re-shape that palate and then I, of course, have to throw in there.  It’s like, “Yes, and don’t forget to give them a little emu oil, too, for that Vitamin K.”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And that’s great.  When I was growing up, I was a big–I sucked my thumb a lot.  I was a big thumb sucker so I created that V-shaped arch and I had to wear an appliance for years to kind of bring my arch back and I know, nutritionally I wasn’t in the best shape when I was younger.  So again, good nutrition is really important.  How do they know what the shape of the mouth should be?  Are they just kind of using a kind of measurements and basing upon, you know, where the bite should fall or where the jaw alignment should go?  How did they figure out what’s normal for you?

Beverly Meyer:  Well, you–the first question is what’s normal for a human?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Beverly Meyer:  And that’s where you go back to Weston Price who like I say took thousands of photographs of people’s faces and teeth, and so we-we know what is normal–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  How it looks, right.

Beverly Meyer:  For a human face to look like.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  How’s that quantified though?

Beverly Meyer:  What–I’m not quite sure about your question.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Are there certain measurements they’re looking at to–to figure out exactly, “Hey, you’re, you know, you’re front–”  I’m not familiar with the dental terminology but you’re incisors are this much up or your canines or this or that, to objectify it.

Beverly Meyer:  I don’t know.  I just know that–that when you see a person with a narrow face and, therefore, narrow cheekbones and you know, that narrow face, you know, if you–we’re used to seeing people with very narrow faces now, long and narrow faces.  It’s unusual to see people with–with wide faces and strong jaws, kind of like George Clooney for ex–we-we call them, you know, handsome.  George Clooney and Arnold Schwarzenegger because of that wide cheekbone and strong, squared jaw.  So that’s what we’re looking for, the jaw doesn’t point and drop down, that the face isn’t narrowing and that the palate itself is as fully spread and expanded as it can be.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  You know, when you watch TV, one of the interesting things that Price talked about–I think it was Price–was the rule of thirds, and that’s the bottom part of the chin that goes up to the bottom part of the nose, that should be one-third of your face.  While the bottom part of your nose to the brow area–

Beverly Meyer:  Eyebrow.  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  The second-third and then the eyebrow to where the hairline starts should be third-third.  And you should–when you watch TV, you can see lots of people that either have a small middle third or they have a small lower third where you could see that really small chin.  I can think of a few actors on TV but I won’t name though, and then also the other big thing is it’s clinically relevant is a big forehead.  A larger third forehead is a big sign of gluten sensitivity that’s actually–I forget which journal it is–but they said it was clinically diagnostic as–as a criteria for gluten sensitivity.

Beverly Meyer:  Wow.  It’s–it’s really fascinating stuff but it–you know, it gets back to gluten and Vitamin K2 and–and then they’re gonna all get back to the temporal lobes in the brain which is right at your TMJ and your ability to create and utilize GABA and it all ties in.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, it does.  In Hollywood, you know, we think of like George Clooney of someone of that as being attractive and you know, what really is attractiveness and a lot of it comes down to fertility and health.  If you would look at the Westin A. Price book, you can see these–the different tribes they go to, you can see the tribes that are eating that healthy diet, you can see the robust shape of their face and you can see the ones that deviate just one generation.  It’s a massive difference.

Beverly Meyer:  That’s right.  That’s right.  So I–you know, I–I don’t know too many people that have all 32 adult teeth.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I know.  That’s true.

Beverly Meyer:  That’s pretty rare, yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And there’s a plastic surgeon, his name is Dr. Marquardt and he created something called the Marquardt mask.  And he’s basically quantified attractiveness and with this number, I forget what the exact number is, but he finds that there’s this evenness that needs to be within all parts of the face and that’s–all people that are like the most attractive, so for instance, he’ll overlay it with Angelina Jolie or Brad Pitt and you’ll see it’s like perfect.  And then he’ll overlay it like with someone that you may not see being attractive and you could see the–where things don’t line up.  So it’s kinda interesting how this Weston A. Price thing formation and health kinda ties in to attractiveness which is interesting.

Beverly Meyer:  Yeah, it’s facial recognition, you know, the toys we make for children have the wide set eyes and you know, the mouth is in a certain place and it’s–it–we train early on for facial recognition.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  But it’s interesting how Hollywood is almost telling us the opposite where we have these super skinny emaciated girls–

Beverly Meyer:  Right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Who are modeling now and it’s like we’re almost trying to be tricked into what health is now and what attraction is now and it’s almost the opposite.  What’s your take on that?

Beverly Meyer:  Well, I–absolutely.  You know, I–I wish I had a nice robust body instead of my narrow crowded body.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right, right.  Exactly.  Well, is there anything else you wanted to tie into on the nutrition Weston A. Price and–and just overall health?

Beverly Meyer:  Well, I think, and again, the point I wanna stress with people is–is when, in you, I’m sure you get your share of people this way, too.  They wanna jump straight to the supplements.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Beverly Meyer:  And okay, maybe they’ll–diet or maybe they’ll even do a lot of change in their diet but we’re still trained in that culture, one pill for one–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.

Beverly Meyer:  Ill.  You know, and I–I’m sure you had this, too.  I’ve had people walk in in my clinic and say, “You know, I have diabetes and–and high blood pressure and I’m–I’m prone to blood clots, which pill should I take?”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Beverly Meyer:  And, you know, I–it just blows my mind that–it–that people can even generate that question in their own mind that it doesn’t have anything to do with you and you just need somebody to give you the pill, and that it really does come down to your food and lifestyle and–and your ability to–to however it works to get good deep counseling on the patterns that run you.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Beverly Meyer:  I’m personally a big fan of EFT, Emotional Freedom Techniques, and remember when I told you when I was diagnosed first and went on the low-dose anti-epileptics and was so sick–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Beverly Meyer:  And basically just retreated home to the cave and–and that’s really what I did.  I did EFT, you know, 10, 20, 30–a little note, tiny notepad and pen on my person, literally 24 hours a day and when a thought would come up and I can feel my heart rate go up, that anxiety would come up and you know, which I know now is the brain that’s firing, and I’d write down what were you just thinking?  Aha!  I just had that thought.  Well, what would someone still think when they hear this and that, you know?  And–and literally write down what was that thought or even in reading a book, I’d be calm and happy reading a book and then suddenly, I was like, “Wow, I’m feeling a little anxious.”  Did I–was I thinking something?  No.  What did I just read?  And even to go back to some passages and say, “Wow!”  Yeah, that just triggered some pattern for myself, too, about that reaction.  So I–I really kept great notes on that and then I would do the EFT tapping on those patterns and to this day, I still do EFT, and I work with other different kinds of therapists and hypnotherapists, whatever works to address these patterns, but the first key is to become familiar with those voices in your head, the ones that say, “Oh, that was stupid.”  Well, great.  Write that down, you know.  You–you got to know those demons, I said, and I joke about–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Hmm.

Beverly Meyer:  It on my blog posts.  I say, “You know, it’s just like jukebox.”  And that one that says, “Well, that was stupid.”  That was, you know, that was D42.  And the one that says, “Oh, they just don’t know.  They–they, I’m smarter than they are.”  Well, that might be A11.  You know?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Beverly Meyer:  They’re just buttons that you push.  And you know, get to know them and if it pops up, you can, laugh at it and go, “Oh, my gosh, it’s A11 again.”  And, you know, “I’ve heard you before, I know who you are.”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Beverly Meyer:  And it–it’s the ability to just take on and acknowledge, “Yup, there’s that–there’s that thought.  There’s that pattern.”  And–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I’m a huge fan of EFT.

Beverly Meyer:  Yeah?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I’ve been–I’ve been using it for a couple of years.  I recommend my patients.  I use it or for all the different practitioners.  And just for everyone listening, it stands for Emotional Freedom Technique.  It was a technique derived from Dr. Diamond in the 80s and I think Gary Craig then took it and turned it from temporal tapping or tapping solution to EFT and it’s a great technique to neutralize negative emotions that are trapped in our nervous system to speak.  Can you talk more about how you use it with your patients?  Are you trying to find out what that negative thought is that you labeled A2 on the jukebox?  And do you–just talk about that emotion as you go through the various tapping points?

Beverly Meyer:  I don’t take that responsibility of teaching and working EFT with my clients.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Okay.

Beverly Meyer:  Sometimes I–I will and we will, I say, “Look, let’s just–let’s get away from this table and let’s go sit over here and let’s talk about this great technique.” Because I have found it so useful for anxiety, but it’s also terrifically useful for pain and other physical symptoms and you know, for example, if you notice a pain in your right elbow and it’s not usually there, or even if it’s usually there, and you kind of focus it, make a distinction about that pain.  Is it–is it stabbing, is it throbbing, is it itching or whatever?  And you make up a phrase to use even though I have this stabbing pain in my right elbow, I love and accept myself deeply and completely, and that’s kinda your little setup and off you go from there.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Beverly Meyer:  And as you tap through the points, and–and this is so easy for your listeners, you–you can learn this in, you know, 10 minutes, the 7, 8, 9 tapping points, it’s ridiculously easy to learn, and–but as your tapping on things, sometimes the thing behind it will start to peek out.  You know, maybe your tapping on–even though my feel–even though I feel really hurt right now that that person said that about me, I love and accept myself deeply and completely, and if–as your tapping on it, your emotions may shift from anger to sorrow, to guilt, to revenge, and each of those, just let you keep following that trail of–of that emotion and how it lives in you and to even, like I said, it paints a picture of that feeling, that phrase, that emotion that you can recognize again when you see it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Got it, yeah, I do the same thing.  I refer out to various YouTube videos or even online Skype practitioners that will work through some of my patients that have deeper stuff.  I–I think it’s definitely a great way to neutralize it because it’s–it’s all subconscious.  How do you get to your subconscious mind outside of that or maybe hypnosis?

Beverly Meyer:  Yeah, well, you pay attention and you do learn as you go.  But you know, you could–I can do EFT easily in the car or at the stop sign.  You know, I’m–I’m rushing, I’m late, and I’m–I’m gonna tap.  You know, on the fact that why do I do this?  Why do I make myself late?  And then I rush and then I get all, you know, A2 and B9 about, you know–what are people gonna think?  Or what if I–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.

Beverly Meyer:  Don’t show up?  Or how–what’s?  They’re gonna think badly if I’m 10 minutes, and I’m like, “Whatever.”  It is just–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Beverly Meyer:  It’s all just worthless trash but it’s–it’s useful to use–to understand yourself and then you just tap it out and have a big sigh and then you feel a lot calmer.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  That’s good.  I love that.  Very good.  Well, is there anything else that you wanna touch upon that you find really important for our listeners to know?

Beverly Meyer:  Well, I’m just gonna–I’m gonna give a little plug for my DVD here, The Diet for Human Beings, because it’s–it’s the only DVD that’s gonna help teach people how to eat a Paleo diet and why.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Hmm.

Beverly Meyer:  It’s–it’s simple to watch.  It’s easy to understand.  It lets you understand the glucose-insulin cycle, and–and why starches make you feel bad and you know, what to eat and what not to eat.  It’s just an easy way.  If you’re not gonna read a bunch of books to learn what you’re doing and why and when–when your girlfriend or your parents or your–your co-workers says, “Why are you eating that way?”  That you can actually answer intelligently instead of, “Oh, it’s that Paleo thing.”  You know?  And then you know, that’s not very empowering.  So it–it’s just–it’s an easy way for people to learn and then pass it on to their spouse or their daughter.  So here, you know, you may not watch the whole thing on me but sections 10, 11, and 12 just sound just like you here in and hand them the DVD, so it’s a great tool and then they can watch it and pass it on, too.  So I just needed to say that.  It’s–I think people will just go straight for the Paleo recipes but they don’t understand, you know, it’s a rule.  No grains, no–give me pancake that’s Paleo and you know–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Exactly.

Beverly Meyer:  You wanna understand what you’re doing and why, and so you could have a little discernment.  I have a pet peeve of Paleo treats.  You know?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yup.

Beverly Meyer:  Yeah, these date, blueberry, coconut honeyballs.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  The same amount of sugar.

Beverly Meyer:  I’m like, that is–that is not a Paleo food.  So you know, anyway, that’s–that’s­it’s an easy way to teach yourself what to do and why.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, I think that’s powerful.  I think all people need to understand why there’s power in why.  I remember people, you know, it still happens today.  People ask me, why do you eat that way?  And I just–I looked down on my watch and I say, “How long do you have?”  Well–

Beverly Meyer:  That’s–that’s why I did the DVD.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Beverly Meyer:  I got tired of explaining it to and they get tired of hearing it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right, I hear you.  And then again, people ask you.  You can recommend them to Dr. Meyer’s website and then also from the podcast as well to get more info on this, because knowledge is power especially if you are applying the knowledge.  That’s the most important thing.

Beverly Meyer:  Yes, it is.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Well, I wanna leave you with my last 2 questions that I ask all my guests.  If you were stuck on a desert island, what supplement or nutrient would you bring with you?  And I think I already know.

Beverly Meyer:  Well, I won’t need D on that–on that–on that desert island but I might need some Vitamin K.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I knew it.

Beverly Meyer:  But for sure, I’m gonna make sure I have enough saturated fat because I do think humans evolved to eat saturated fat and not all proteins have high quality saturated fat, you know, an equatorial fish does not have as much omega 3 as a cold water fish.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Beverly Meyer:  So I would have some–some–some good source of omega 3s with me along with that emu oil.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, just your luck you’re on a desert island with coconuts then you get the saturated fat from there as well.

Beverly Meyer:  That–that’s true.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Very cool.  So with our listeners here, what would be like the last 3 suggestions that you kinda wanna highlight, underline, what are the big 3 take homes for people just to kick more butt?

Beverly Meyer:  Number 1 is get off of gluten as if you’re life depended on it and you had a firm diagnosis of celiac disease.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And by gluten, all grains you mean, correct?

Beverly Meyer:  Well, first gluten.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yup.

Beverly Meyer:  I mean, maybe not first, but I mean especially I want people to treat gluten as your lipstick has gluten in it, your hair dye has gluten in it–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Hmm.

Beverly Meyer:  You’re handling the pet kibble that you’re tossing back and forth from the bowl to the bin and you’re breathing all of that dust with wheat flour, and this is why I say, to really learn all the sneaky places that you may think you’re gluten-free but you’re not.  And because we wanna get those antibodies under control as quickly as possible.  So that’s number one, is no matter what, gluten-free and just–just tell people you have celiac disease and it helps the waiter, you know, he doesn’t have to listen to your story.  Just–he knows what to do.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Exactly.  Exactly.  Just say you have an allergy, your celiac, that’s it.

Beverly Meyer:  That’s right and I’m gonna die on your doorstep if you don’t–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.

Beverly Meyer:  Listen to my order.  And that will–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Thank you.

Beverly Meyer:  Get their attention.  Number two–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Two.

Beverly Meyer:  Would be know yourself.  Listen to those patterns in your mind and learn them and what triggers them and whose pattern was that anyway?  You know, who’s the one that said, “You better make straight A’s.”?  And–and you’re still knocking yourself out trying to straight A all your email responses and, you know, know yourself and–and handle those–those drivers in your brain.  And number three, do a saliva test and check your adrenal status because sometimes it’s high, sometimes it’s low, sometimes it’s normal, sometimes it’s mixed, and I had no idea how sick I was until I did that saliva test and that’s what it took for me to finally–for me to finally wake up and say, “Oh, my gosh.  I’m in big trouble.  This is no joke.”  And saliva test is a hugely useful test for cortisol and all the male and female hormones, too, as long as you’re at it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Well, I–objective data can be incredibly motivating for people to make a change, change your diet, so I’m in full support of that, doc. That’s great.

Beverly Meyer:  Alright, well, thank you so much.  And by the way, I am not a doctor, so I don’t use the term doctor.  Although in Texas, you’re allowed to use the term doctor and call yourself an ND, which I–very opposed to people that have been to one weekend call themselves doctor and ND, this and that.  So I try to be very cautious about the use of that term doctor for those who deserve it and had been to medical school.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I understand.

Beverly Meyer:  Yeah, and for your–all people listening to this, don’t–you know, you should really question your practitioners, “What medical school did you go to?  What year?  Did you graduate and how long have you been practicing this particular specialty I’m consulting you with?”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right.  And most–most medical doctors have that zero nutrition training at all in their medical school.  So again, you’ve been doing this 30 years so we appreciate your info and your input and Bev Meyer’s site is, could you reiterate–

Beverly Meyer:  Nope.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Your podcast as well?

Beverly Meyer:  Yeah, it’s ondietandhealth.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Oh, ondietandhealth.  We’ll have that in the show host,

Beverly Meyer:  Dot com, and that’s my twitter and Pinterest is ondietandhealth.  My Facebook is BeverlyMeyerOnDietAndHealth, it’s a long name and the podcast is primaldietmodernhealth.  So you got that ancient food but the best of modern healthcare.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Awesome.  Well, thanks, Beverly.  It was so great having you on the podcast.

Beverly Meyer:  Thank you, Justin.  Those are–your great questions, you’re a wonderful interviewer and very thorough.  I’m sure with your–all your own patients.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Well, thank you so much.


-EFT intro video:
-The diet for human beings:


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