Mitochondrial Nutrients on Fat Burning with Evan Brand | Podcast #206

Mitochondria are often referred to as the powerhouse of the cell. They are the tiny organelles inside cells that are involved in releasing energy from food. Their efficient function very much depends on one’s lifestyle and diet. Watch the video and learn the essential supports to these tiny friends before burning that fat on the gym!

Today’s podcast talks about ways to enhance one’s metabolism, the low-hanging fruits, how vegetarian diets miss out essential nutrients, or why carnitine deficiencies result in decreased ability to use long-chain fatty acids as metabolic fuel. Stay tuned for more and don’t forget to share. Sharing is caring!

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

In this episode, we cover:

00:15    B-Vitamins: The Low Hanging Fruit

06:07    Carnitine

11:39    Free-Form Amino Acids

14:13    Underlying Toxins that Affect Mitochondria

19:08    Functional Medicine that is Results Driven

23:25    CoQ10, Ubiquinol, and Ubiquinone

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Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey there it’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani, welcome back to the podcast. Evan Brand, how we doing today my friend?

Evan Brand: Hey man, happy monday. We’re playing with some new technology to try to make ourselves look pretty, so let’s see how it works.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, you had a new camera on, here I saw my same uhm– more updated uh– HD webcam. We may update that in the future to a 4K one, we’ll see how it goes. But today we wanted to chat about how to enhance your metabolism. What nutrients we can use to enhance your metabolism. So, why don’t we dig in? So, off the bat, we have various energizing nutrients. We have the low hanging fruit which are B-Vitamins. Yeah, B– B-1 which is gonna be thymine, B-2 which is going to be riboflavin, B-3 which is niacin or niacinamide, we have B-5 which is pantothenic acid primarily used by the adrenals, or significantly used by adrenals, B-6 which is P-5-P, or Pyridoxal-5-Phosphate. B-6 is really important for activating and converting a lot of our brain chemicals, amino acids in our brain like serotonin. F– err– 5-HTP to serotonin, to tyrosine to dopamine, adrenaline etc. And we also had B-9, a.k.a. folate, or folic acid. We wanna use activated form, so either calcium folinate, or L– uhm– MTHF which is activated folate. We also have B-12, me– methylated which are gonna be better,  hydroxy adenosyl as well, we wanna avoid the cyano form. So that kind of rounds up a lot of the B-Vitamins. So, first off, the low-hanging fruit for enhancing your mitochondria, enhancing your body’s ability to burn fat, let’s just say it’s the B-Vitamins. Now from a food stand point, really high and high quality meats and– and vegetables, right? So, that’s kind of a low hanging fruits. We really wanna make sure digestion is good for digesting meats and such. And we’re eating a really good kind of a paleo template, lots of vegetables, lots of healthy meats, and we have good digestion, that’s gonna help us off the bat to really maximize our B-Vitamin digestion, absorption and assimilation.

Evan Brand: I was looking at my O-test the other day and I thought, “Dang it!”. I was actually really-really low on B-6. Even though– I guess I have been supplementing for– maybe a few months after my O-test, but I can’t remember when I started it. So I was tryin’ to do the timeline like, will my D’s burning through my B’s quickly, due to working too much, or– what is it, you know, so, we find that B-Vitamins are low all the time. We do know that stress burns ’em up, you and I talk about this all the time with like amino acid metabolism, we talked about burning through neurotransmitters quickly, so– B-Vitamins, same thing, and then Vitamin-C, I would put that in the same category too. We actually test Vitamin-C on the organic acids panel, I would say like 9 out of every 10 people we test are low on Vitamin-C. I actually drink some this morning. I just do a mixed ascorbate powder, with the citrus bioflavonoids, and 25 hundred milligrams all you need in 2 months and you can rebuild your levels.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow that’s really good.

Evan Brand: What are you– what are you popping? ___[02:52], what is he swallowing?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh yeah, sorry about that.

Evan Brand: [laughs]

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I should had just turned out my mic so it wasn’t– it wasn’t grabbing it. Uhm– but, it’s B-Vitamins, carnitine, creatine, uhm– ribose, all of the mitochondrial nutrients that we need to help maximizing burning fat for fuel. So–

Evan Brand: Let’s talk about creatine. You– you men– you brought up creatine. Now, you know, people out there may say, “Oh, well creatine isn’t that for your muscles, isn’t that I should be using to increase muscle mass at the gym?”.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. [crosstalk]. It increase growth hormone too. It’s– it’s instantaneous muscle fuel. Uhm– but yeah, it’s– it’s really important for the mitochondria of course. And it– it’s fuel that can be used by the muscle right away. And again, what I like about the creatine is the fact that there is some in– in me, but the problem is not a lot like, 5 or 10 grams that I may get supplementally, you know, maybe a couple hundred milligrams in a mitochondrial support. But if I use creatine before the gym, Im– if I do like a kre-alkalyn or a creatine monohydrate, I’m gonna do 5 or 10 grams, and you don’t have to eat 20 or 30 pounds of meat to get that kind of creatine. So it’s nice to be able to supplement that just because the food wise, you’re not gonna get the same level of concentration. So there’s some really good benefits in there on the supplement side, especially for the lack of having to eat that much meat, it’s impossible.

Evan Brand: Right. Yeah, carnitine, let’s talk about carnitines. So, there’s a ketone and fatty acid section on the organic acid test. So we can kind of look at this and– and we can see whether someone’s been fasting or whether they’d been on like a ketogenic diet. And we can also tell too when there’s metabolism issues or metabolism defects you could call on, on the O-test. Now, what the prescription generally is for this when we see that these markers go high, the prescription could be acetyl L-carnitine, and very helpful for brain fog too. You know, we know– we had a lot of people that say, “Oh, I just don’t have the mental energy or the physical energies”. So they’re mentally tired, so they don’t have the motivation to get things done. That could be in– tied into amino acids but, for this conversation, it could be tied in to carnitine deficiency. And that also, like you mentioned is important for energizing and helping mitochondria, so if you’re a carnitine deficient, you literally, or not making enough energy at the cellular level. And you can replace carnitines supplementally, but as you mentioned, you do want the good meats in the diet. That’s why we see so many vegetarians and vegans, they show low on things like this on the test.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly, and if you look at carnitine, you know, what its job is, you go to any biochemistry textbook, you’ll find something known as the carnitine shuttle. And the carnitine shuttle, it essentially shuttles free fatty acids into the mitochondria. Let me see if I can find uh– my biochemistry– come on, one sec. Let me see if I have it close by. Yeah, I do, right here– here– alright.

Evan Brand: So free acid– so– so that– so this has to come from the diet. You’ve gotta have some free fatty acids coming, so–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, so you need the– so number 1, the carnitine shuttle’s really important because it’s gonna take free fatty acids, and it’s gonna dump it into the mitochondria, right, and then the body’s gonna be able to burn that up for fuel. But the other really-really important part– so carnitine shuttle is 188, 189– so we’re doing this on the fly here guys. We’re keeping it real for ‘ya all, okay? I’ll try to be the– the mayor or real ville here.

Evan Brand: [laughs]

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay.

Evan Brand: I see.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 189. So, off the bat, we have carnitine right here. This is the mitochondrial matrix.

Evan Brand: Go a little higher, we can’t see it yet.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, sorry.

Evan Brand: There you go.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, you could see it right here, your body is using carnitine right here. So this is the inner mitochondrial membrane. This is the outer, mitochondria membrane. So essentially, you could see carnitine is literally bringing all these good fatty acids inside the mitochondria. So you need carnitine to bring it inside the mitochondria. Now couple of things I wanna highlight here, is to make carnitine– you actually need– right here, check this out.

Evan Brand: Go a little higher if you want us to see– oh, right there. Okay, yeah, we can’t read it, it’s too small.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: [reads], carnitine can be attained from the diet where it’s from primarily in meat products. Carnitine can also be synthesized from amino acids, lysine and methionine, by a systematic pathway from liver, therefore these tissues are totally dependent on carnitine provided by the liver. And then there’s one more part in here that it talks about vegetarian diets are primarily deficient in methionine and lysine.

Evan Brand: Right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So what does that mean? If you’re vegetarian, it’s a chance that those nutrients are gonna be low, you’re not gonna be able to make, ’cause you’re gonna go take carnitine in from animal products – meat, right? Or you make it from methionine and lysine. And if vegetarian diet are primarily deficient in methionine and lysine then you’re gonna have problem generating ATP, right? Adenosine Triphosphate, that’s the currency the ener— the energy currency in our body. We’re gonna have problem being able to generate that, being on a vegetarian diet.

Evan Brand: And what does that mean? In short, you’re gonna be tired. And this is why you go to your doctor, and they may try to diagnose you with chronic fatigue, or they may try to diagnose you with ADD, or ADHD so they can give you a methamphetamine derivative such as adderall or vyvanse to try to crank up your energy. You may be dependent on coffee to get yourself up and going in the morning. It’s not a coffee deficiency as some may want us to think. Or– you know, my wife, she loves her coffee but I’ll tell her, it’s not– a coffee deficiency, you know, it could be carnitine. What else you got for us?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So– so right here, check this out. So this section right here, it’s called “E”, it’s called carnitine deficiencies. Such deficiencies result in decrease ability to use long chain fatty acids as metabolic fuel, right? So saturated fatty acids, right– the m— the medium chain ones are– coconut oil, those kind of things. The longer ones are gonna be like our– our saturated ones are animal fats. Uhm– but right here, it says, “Secondary carnitine deficiencies may occur for many reasons including patients with liver disease, number 2 is individual suffering from malnutrition. Or– those on on strict vegetarian diets”.

Evan Brand: Boom! There is it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And it also talks about severe infections, burns, trauma, pregnancy, as other mechanism or means in why you would be low in the carnitine, Isn’t that interesting?

Evan Brand: That’s crazy. Well that first paragraph you read, it said something about how you could source it from lysine and methionine as well but it requires an enzymatic process in the liver. And I thought, well, what about all these people that had toxic livers? They’re probably converting it the way they should–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mmmhhhhmm–

Evan Brand: So someone could say, “Oh, I’m tired”. And they could have meat in teh diet but it could be a liver problem, as well.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. Exactly, so– I wanted to just highlight there. A lot of people think vegetarian diets, you know are– are healthy but you’re missing key important nutrients. We’re not even talking about B-12. We’re talking about, you know, important self rebate– or important amino acids and methionine and lysine. And we’re talking about even B-12 and other essential fatty acids. We– we’re not even getting to Vitamin-A. Now people may say, “Wow you’re getting beta carotene”, yeah, but, you may not be converting beta carotene to Vitamin-A. One mechanism is if– if you see like people that have a little bit orangy kind of palms, that can kinda tell you that– uhm— you’re not converting it. Lower thyroid people have a harder time converting beta carotene to Vitamin-A as well. So, these just things you wanna keep in mind. And, some of the organic acids we’ll look at are ethyl malonate, and suberate, and adipate. These are the big ones that we’ll look at and if we see them go really high, it tends to mean that we’re not– uhm— we don’t have enough carnitine on board to really make this carnitine shuttle mechanism happen optimally.

Evan Brand: Yeah so– so even if– so– so you’re saying if that’s happening, even if the diet does have meat, so let’s say somebody’s following a paleo template–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mmmhmm–

Evan Brand: You’re saying if we see high on these markers here–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Mmmhmm–

Evan Brand: –we know that carnitine shuttles’s not happening. They’re still gonna be tired regardless of whether they’re paleo or not.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I mean, it’s gonna mean that pe– these people are not generating energy from they’re fat optimally, and that’s important. We wanna make sure we have good fatty acid energy uhm— that’s happening. And also we wanna be able to burn fat for fuel. So if we see people that have carnitine issues and we see weight loss challenges, well then we definitely wanna supplement carnitine, you know, I– I would say between 2 to 5 grams, uhm— daily. We wanna be doing that to really enhance fats kind of breakdown. So for— we have fat loss resistance or fat loss struggles and we see issue with carnitine, you really wanna make sure we’re getting good carnitine on the food, right? Animal products, methionine, lysine, those kind of things. And then we wanna make sure that we supplement that on if– if we have other stressors on top of it, so really make sure that its pathways are working well especially if we see the ethyl malonate, the suburate, the adipate in the organic acids being uh– a little bit more impaired.

Evan Brand: Well let me ask you this, I know you’re a big fan of free-form amino acids. So will this be another good time to throw those in because you mentioned like lysine, methionine in this process, could that help, if you wanted to throw it in along with carnitine?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I think so. I mean, if you look on the– I think marker 7 through 14, there’s some areas that will correlate or look at the amino acids, and so that’s good to look at. So if we see lower amino acids, we wanna give a free-fatty acid formula. And again, amino acids gonna be low for two reasons, from an absorption reason, from a he— or 3, from an absorption issue, you’re not absorbing it too, you’re not– you’re not eating it, right?

Evan Brand: Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And– and 3, you know, we may even wanna just supplement it on top of it as well. On the s– the stress part. So the stress part is a third one where you’re just burning up ’cause of stress. You’re– your’re just more catabolic.

Evan Brand: And that could be gut stress.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. You’re not eating it, you’re not absorbing it, gut stress is more of your absorption.

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And then just the overall stress part you’re more catabolic and breaking it down. And so, we would add in additional amino acids if we saw some of those pathways low. And the reason why it’s nice, there are a lot of energy, 50% of the energy that you get from the aminos actually goes into the breakdown. So it’s kind of like–

Evan Brand: Aaah–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s like using a credit card and having a 50% transaction fee, right?

Evan Brand: Ooh–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You buy something for a hundred bucks, well you get charged a hundred and fifty ’cause of that 50$ transaction fee on top of it. The nice thing about aminos, is– you get uhm— easy absorption ’cause it’s on a free form so it’s already broken down for you, that’s the benefit.

Evan Brand: Ho– how often do you use those and what’s like the typical case when you’re using free form aminos?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I don’t particularly use free form aminos myself ’cause I don’t have those markers coming back on my organic acids, but the uh– the big aminos that I will use are collagen peptides. Collagen peptides are amino acids primarily from connected tissues and much higher in glycine. Like a free form amino acid product like a ___[13:27], it’s amino acid supreme. It’s kind of more balanced across the board, where obviously connected tissue is higher in glycine, it’s lower in methionine, lower in ___[13:38], lower in uhm— uh– tyrosine but it’s higher on the other aminos, hydroxyproline, proline and glycine. And so I use those primarily, but with patients if I see those pathways coming back, or I see vegetarian issues, we’ll go with the amino acids, we’ll aso go collagen, and then we’ll add in some of these carnitine or like a mitosynergy or mitochondrial support that has a lot of those nutrients in it as well. It’s kind of we–

Evan Brand: Oh, okay. So you could do both. You’re saying could put, you know, somebody who is like an ex-vegan or vegetarian, you may put them on amino acid free form, as well as collagen, correct?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. Absolutely.

Evan Brand: Cool. That’s awesome. So you mentioned the B’s, you mentioned the C’s, we talked about aminos, we talked about the carnitine shuttle, uh– mitochondrial toxins, I mean, why do these happen in the first place. We’ll use either some type of underlying toxicity that’s affected the mitochondria, so– that could be antibiotics, that could be various toxins that we test for, like gasoline additives, xylene for women wearing perfume, that’s a big, big toxin we see, cosmetics, hair dye, we see a chemical called acrylamide that we can test for, that affects mitochondria. So toxins in general, infections like Justin mentioned in the gut, so, getting your gut checked out for parasites, bacteria, H-pylori, worms, etc., candida overgrowth could all steal nutrients as well. Uh– I had one other toxin in mine. It was the xylene, the acrylamide we see, oh, pesticides, I mean, duhh, that’s easy. I mean–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, pesticides, the antibiotics, right? I would say–

Evan Brand: Lots of chemicals?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: ___[15:06] products. Yup. I think those antibiotics are a big one too, so be careful on that. If we need to use antibiotic we don’t wanna make sure it’s specific and try to maximize the natural herbal compounds first. Uhm– so B-Vitamins, carnitine, creatine, cocutane’s another big one. Cocutanes’ really important, it helped gather all those hydrogens. Better spit out after the uhm— when it goes to the electron transport chain. And through, you know, goes to the krebs cycle electron transport chains, helps gather all those extra hydrogens. Right, we have all these ro— re– reduction reactions that occur uhm— during the kreb cycle which is basically an increase in these electrons that are– and– and the cocutanes gather a lot of them up. And it just spits out more ATP af–after it goes to the electron transport chain. So it’s really important for generating more fuel, more energy.

Evan Brand: My mitochondria showed some– some dysfunction. I got my uh– GPL-Tox chemical test done, and I did have some dysfunction. I wasn’t bad, but I had, I was a– I was a couple point off. I was like in the green, headed towards the yellow. So, I’m doing some of the mitochondrial support nutrients right now. And also, uh– you and I were looking at my blood work. My homocysteine was up a bit too. And that was due to my– uh– folate, B-12, B-6, deficiencies. The B-12 actually looked okay on the O-Test, but the B-6 was a bit low. Folate metabolism looked okay, so, maybe it was just B-6 causing homocysteine to go up, I don’t know. That’s– it [crosstalk] something else.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So– some of this could be genetic, some could be stress-based–

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So I mean, the best thing is you’re diet’s great and checked out often, “Hey you do your best to manage those stress”. You know, you work with– on the general public, and– and helping them get help this– that– that always can be stressful. And then we just supplement. We make sure we have high quality, uhm— methylated B-Vitamins that are gonna help with that. So we just kinda hit it from all ends.

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhm– do you wanna hit a couple questions that are related to this topic?

Evan Brand: Yeah, I’ve been– I’ve been firing the chat up so do you mind uh– bringing them?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, so I’m gonna just– if you guys can kind of keep the questions to these specific topics, that’s gonna help. Uh– if not we’re just gonna go through and– and cherry pick ’em. Uhm– “Any supplements or strategies that–“, nope, that’s not gonna be pertinent, sorry. Let me keep on rolling here. “How about P-Protein for a vegetarian diet?”. Yes, P-Protein is really good, you could do P-Protein, you can also add in free form amino acids as well. Those are some g– great options, I think it’s very good. Uhm– Alesson writes in, “I react to all animal proteins, autoimmune disease, etc., ___[17:32] toxic too from iron overload”. Well that’s pretty– it’s interesting, if you’re a female, you should be menstruating unless you know, unless you’re menopausal then it’s totally different. But if you’re cycling female you should menstruating, so having iron overload is pretty hard to do. Now if you’re amenorrhea because your hormones are offline, uh– your iron may also be artificially high ’cause of inflammation. Inflammation can increase uhm— you know, basically iron can act like a reactio— reactive oxygen species, ROS, so it’s like gasoline in the fire. So like an artificially, look like it goes higher, but it’s more of a result of inflammation, so it could be at too. But yeah, you’d wanna do kind of a GAPS, SCD, autoimmune template, maybe elemental diet to kind of get the inflammation under control. For sure–

Evan Brand: Uh– let me add a couple– couple comments to that. You know, I’ve discussed this before with meat. You know, meat gets the– it– it gets the blame, right? Like people will blame the eggs, or they’ll blame the animal protein, but I would go as to far as to say– there’s probably an infection component here which is why you can’t tolerate the meat. So if it’s all meat, I mean if it was red meat, I’d say, well, you know, we have some clients that have had a tick bite and they become allergic to the red meat. But if you’re saying it’s all meat, to me I bet there’s something going on, potentially H-Pylori–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: With the gut. 100%.

Evan Brand: Yeah–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: They gotta go to the 6-Rs–

Evan Brand: [crosstalk]

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: They gotta go to the 6-Rs. Yeah they gotta remove the bad foods, replace the enzymes, repair the gut lining, the hormones, remove the infection, repopulate, reinoculate, probiotics retest. But in the meantime, pre-digest all that food, get on a really hypoallergenic, easy to– to process diet, and then pre-digest all that food with– with good cooking methods to help.

Evan Brand: Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent. Let’s see here any other questions. Uh– doctor Jack Cruz says “only about one third of energy comes from food”, well, I mean, you know, we’re gonna be tapping in if or more ketogenic or we’re lower carbohydrate, we’ll be tapping in more to our body fat, so there is that, right? Just tapping into our body fat. Uhm– you got about one day’s worth of energy stored in carbohydrate, about 30 days worth of energy stored in fat. So it makes sense to really tap in to that. Uhm– and then regarding– so I guess it depends, right? ‘Cause you– you’re gonna be burning some on your body, some on– some from the food and some of the other food will be building blocks for your muscle, for your mitochondria, like actually, regenerating your body. So, I mean, I guess depends. Err– like– I– I kinda think of like regeneration is like, okay it’s going into the savings account, I think of like burning it’s going into the checking account that’s being spent right away. So we kinda have like our savings account, our checking account for right away, our savings account for regeneration. And then like, we basically have our long term savings which is more tapping into like our fats for fuel, etc. Does that make sense?

Evan Brand: Yeah, are they– are they trying to say like the other part of it like sunlight, I know– you and I have both done multiple podcast. Jack Cruz is in– a mutual friend of ours so we’ve chatted with them plenty of times. You know, sunlight is– is huge. We’re not saying that you– uh– you can ignore that. You still need exposure to sunlight. That’s just the [crosstalk] though.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. The problem with Jack Cruz is this, alright. From what I understand, Jack does not work with patients on the functional medicine side directly, okay? And I can tell you, I wish it was as simple as, no EMF, get Vitamin-D, eat lots of seafood, avoid inflammatory foods, and everyone was healed. It would make my job a thousand times easier, right? So of course, part of a– a good healthy lifestyle is mitigation of EMF. It’s gonna be “Get sunlight”, it’s gonna be grounding, it’s gonna be doing all those things. I can tell you personally, that very rarely is enough. I wish it was, it’d make my life a thousand times easier. I don’t– you know, I wouldn’t– I wouldn’t invalidate doctor Jack for saying any of the– any of those, I think they’re really helpful and they’re good foundational principles to add into your repertoire but they are not the holy grail, that is not it. You gotta do more than that. Doing that is not gonna fix an infection, it’s not gonna fix, you know, poor digestion, nutrient deficiencies, toxic overload, you need extra support above and beyond that. I think it’s important but not the whole story.

Evan Brand: Yeah, like gasoline additives for example, you know, you could set out naked in the sun for 12 hours, you’re not gonna detox, these– these things that are deeply stored inside of us no matter what you do unless you really start to use some nutrients to focus on that. Or you’re doing something maybe like a near infrared sauna or something else to help penetrate. You– you just can’t get the penetration level that you need from just sunlight alone to help with toxins. And then the infection piece like you said, I had H-Pylori, I had giardia, I needed herbs to clear those things out.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. Yup. So just keep that in the back of your mind. Again, you know, I don’t have a dog in the fight, I just wanna make my– my tool bag, right? The tools that I utilize to help patients uhm— get bigger and better so I can help more people, like, I don’t have an affinity to use a screwdriver over you know, a wrench, monkey wrench so to speak. I– I don’t care, right?

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Think of like the monkey wrench being like this supplement or that test, or this diet, I– I don’t care I– I’m result driven. A lot of people, they wanna market themselves so they’re– they’re– they need of what they say to be unique ’cause they’re not necessarily results driven, they’re more marketing driven. So, you just kind of keep that in the back of your head.

Evan Brand: Yeah, so to all just add at one last comment, we’ll move on. So if you gp to a lime expert for example, they’re gonna blame everything online. And if you go to a Hashimoto’s expert, they’re saying everything’s your thyroid, you go an adrenal expert, everything is adrenals, adrenal fatigue, adrenal dysfunction, you know, so– we– we try to be specialist and generalist at the same time, meaning, you gotta address all biosystems. So it’s not that these people are wrong, and it’s not that these people are right. It’s that everybody has the piece to the puzzle. Now if you’re business model, selling books on genetics, you need to talk about genetics a lot. If you’re book is on adrenals, you gotta talk about adrenals a lot. But, you’ve gotta have all of it. So why limit yourself, because like you say, it– at the end of the day, all that matters is, did the person get better? Yes or no. If the answer is no, then you’ve got to open up the tool bag to more tools.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s it, a hundred percent. Another question came in here, uhm— CoQ10, ubiquinol, ubiquinone– ubiquinol from ___[23:30] is a reduced form, so it has an extra electron, uhm— ubiquinone uh– obviously doesn’t have that extra electron. Ubiquinones were a lot of the– you know, the research is, uh– ubiquinol it’s– it’s like one less enzymatic kind of conversion so they’re supposed to be a better reaction, a better conversion or absorption. Uhm– if you’re older, not as much studies on the ubiquinol therefore I still use the ubiquinone but I think, ubiquinol could– it– it’s promising and potentially if you’re older, that may make sense but if not, you know, 3 to 500 milligrams of ubiquinone is gonna be helpful. A lot of good research on that, just make sure it’s good quality.

Evan Brand: Especially if you’re taking statins. ‘Cause we know statins deplete CoQ10 and statins are pastel like candies. So if you’re doing one, gotta make sure that’s in the– in the protocol.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah you have this uhm— this methylmalonic acid pathway, right? So you have essentially this HMG-COA reductase enzyme, right? And this, it gets to blocked out by statins, so you have like cholesterol, and uhm— essentially this enzyme is what– ugh– let me think–

Evan Brand: I’ve seen the picture. I know exactly what you’re talking about.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: One more step down, it’s actually– you have, this HGM-COA reductase enzyme, and then cholesterol gets made, and then you have all these different important antioxidants like CoQ10, and all these other, the sterol compounds that come off of it. So we have this HMG here, cholesterol here, so it blocks this conversion so you don’t get the CoQ10, you don’t get these other important antioxidants that– that come off of it. Uhm– that’s the problem. Now, insulin is one that actually upregulates that enzyme so it causes more cholesterol. So a lot of people can actually get their cholesterol modulated by just getting inflammation under control, getting insulin under control, by getting their carbs dialed in. But uhm— first thing I would say is, you– you need CoQ10, so if you are using a statin you really have to– you know, really get that addressed on the CoQ10 side. Now we’ll look again in the inflammation and the insulin under control first. You may not even need a statin.

Evan Brand: Yup, well said.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, excellent. Alright anything else you wanna mention here Evan before we go?

Evan Brand: I think that’s it, we’ll just mention the websites so people can reach out if they need help.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Evan Brand: You can check out justinhealth— it’s justinhealth.com, you could reach out for consult. Justin works for people around the world, skype, phone, Facetime, whatever you gotta do to get in touch with you, that’s what he does. Same thing for me, my website’s evanbrand.com. We’ve got combined total of 500 and something pieces of content. Uh– just among the podcast alone. So if you all had a specific topic that you wanna see if we’ve covered, just search justinhealth in the topic or evenbrand in the topic, I bet we’ve covered it. And uh– Jack Cruz, you know, uh– we’ve interviewed him, Justin has, I think I’ve had Cruz on my show maybe like three times. The last time we were talking all about 5-G and– EMF and all that and why he feels so good in Mexico, pretty interesting. So, check it out if you want to.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent. Alright Evan, great chatting with you, again, give us subscri— a subscribe, give us a like, hit the bell so you get the notifications here later. And appreciate you guys. Sharing is caring. Any help we’re here for you all. You guys take care. Evan, have a good day.

Evan Brand: See you later, bye.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Bye.


References:

https://www.evanbrand.com/

https://justinhealth.com/

The Paleo Vegan Debate – Podcast #69

In this interview, Dr. Justin Marchegiani and Evan Brand talk about vegan and vegetarian diets and compare it to a Paleo template. Dr. Justin explains the notion that “it takes life to sustain life” and how eating plants is similar to taking life force as when eating meats. Listen to this podcast and find out how you can do a vegetarian diet that can also be considered as a Paleo template.

Paleo_vs_Vegan_dietLearn how to handle conversations with people, friends and family, regarding the  vegetables vs meat issue and how to approach it by taking away the emotion appeal and going into the more logic side. Discover why you should eat high quality meats versus the conventional crappy quality ones. Find out about the big benefits you can get from following a Paleo template.

In this episode, topics include:

1:35   Emotional argument & scientific evolutionary argument

10:45   Feeling better with a vegetarian-vegan diet

14:25   How to talk to friends and family about the issue

16:34   On high quality meats

19:53   Benefits of eating Paleo

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Podcast: Play in New Window|Download

 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Evan Brand, what’s going on today, man?

Evan Brand:  Hey, not much.  It’s a sunny day.  We’re headed into fall.  The leaves are turning colors.  It’s beautiful.  I hiked all weekend and you skied all weekend.  So, how are you feeling?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I’m feeling really, really sore.  I was water skiing this weekend with my wife and some friends and I am just so sore.  I had a water skiing run that probably lasted 5 minutes because if we were going under the Austin 360 bridge and I’m like, “Oh, I gotta–I gotta make it.”  So I was a couple miles away from it and I just really plowed through it and I’m just super sore so any time my legs elongate like the–the quad muscles start to, you know, I walk down stairs and my knees wanna buckle on me so I gotta like really hold the–the railings as I walk downstairs now.

Evan Brand:  I know the feeling.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.  But other than that, it was great and sounds like you had a good weekend, too.

Evan Brand:  Yeah, sure did.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Excellent.  Well, we talked pre-show that we wanted to talk about vegan and vegetarian diets and kinda compare it to a Paleo template if you will.

Evan Brand:  Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Let’s dig in.

Evan Brand:  Sure.  So many clients have walked into both of our doors with a previous history or current history of vegetarian or vegan diet and they feel okay for a little while.  It’s like, “Ah, I feel good.  I started to get some energy.”  Maybe they lost a little bit of weight and then there’s this turning point where it’s like, “Oh my God, my hair is falling out.  I can’t sleep anymore.  I’m exhausted.  I’m wired and tired.  Now I’m gaining belly fat.  What is going on?”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Exactly.  So there’s two arguments when it comes to this.  There’s the emotional argument which is the argument that most vegetarians typically make and there’s the scientific evolutionary argument which is sometimes they try making that argument, too.  But it doesn’t quite connect with the fact.  So let’s break it down one by one.  So the first argument is the emotional appeal and you gotta know it’s emotion because, you know, you got the little animal.  It’s furry.  It’s got family.  It’s got kids.  And you know, we don’t wanna eat that because it’s death, right?  That first assumption assumes that plants are inanimate objects and have no life force at all.  So anytime I’m dealing with someone that’s coming at it from like a life, you know, you’re ending a life, right?  You’re ending that animal’s life and it’s got a face and it’s got cute little cuddly kids, it’s a tough argument to make because it’s a strong emotional appeal.  I always come at it from another perspective that it takes life to sustain life.  Anytime you’re living, your body has to take life force, whether it’s in the form of nutrients from vegetation–plants, fruits, starch, right?  Those things have to be alive at some level and we know there’s some life force coming off because we have things like Kirlian photography that you can actually see energy coming off of it and we know that if you leave kale on your fridge or can too long, it–it rots.  It stinks like vegetables when they die, they–they make some serious–some serious smells, same thing with meat.  So there’s obviously some life force there because we know things like McDonald’s French fries and Big Macs, they literally stay for like years on end.  There’s some guy on the Internet that got a 5-year or 10-year-old French fries and burger from McDonald’s and it doesn’t go.  So we know there is some more–there’s different life force to plants, right?  Than like junk food.  So we know it does rot, so there’s obviously some life to it and we know that’s the same case with meat.  If we leave out there, meat does rot as well.  So the question is, well, you are taking life anytime you eat something.  Whether or not you connect with the sentience, r–right?  The ability for that thing to be sentient, to have sensation.  It’s just hard for us to connect with plants being sentient.  It’s very easy to connect with animals being sentient.  So my appeal to any patient that makes that argument to me or brings that point, it takes life to sustain life.  Your spinach and your kale is just as alive as your animals that you’re eating.  They rot and they stink just like the meat that rots and stinks and I think it was a scientist by the name of, I think, it was Cleve Backster, he wrote the book, The Strange World of Plants, and he would approach plants with scissors and he had the plants hooked up to electrodes and you’re making that scissor noise as your closing the scissors, open and close, like you’d see maybe in like a horror movie or something, and as they are approaching the plant–you see these electrodes coming on the device moni–that’s monitoring the plant, so it’s like the plant is picking up some degree of fear or some degree of emotion when those electrodes were hooked up.  So it’s–it’s fascinating, you know, we’re never gonna be able to connect it, you know, a plant being maybe as sentient as an animal but there is some level of sentience.  So my appeal to anyone that has that kind of philosophy is that your plants have life, too, and you gotta eat healthy plants, if not, you’re not gonna have a healthy life.

Evan Brand:  It’s very true.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  You wanna add to that?

Evan Brand:  Well, no.  That was great, man.  It’s just–it’s funny that we’re still having this debate because people they get conditioned to feel certain ways like there’s so much emotional attachment.  Now I’m totally down with the idea that factory farming and things like that are awful and they create antibiotic-resistant bacteria that have now gone airborne and things like that, so I’m totally on board with the idea of getting rid of the unsustainable disgusting sick animal models.  That’s not what we’re talking about today.  We’re talking about sustainably raised animals that live a happy life up until the moment that they were, you know, their life was ended to sustain us.  So it’s definitely something that you have to get a little bit more specific about and get a little bit more research about because there are sources of healthy, happy animal–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Evan Brand:  Meat out there.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Exactly.  So I–I’ve someone came up to me over the weekend and we were chatting about diets and they’re like, “Oh, I’m vegan, like you’ve gotta be vegan to be healthy.”  And I just said, “Oh, man, I–I eat lots of good, healthy animals that have eaten lots of good vegetables.”  So I–I feel like you can get a lot of good health from meat as well.  And he’s like, “Oh, how–how–how could you eat that–that rotten flesh.”  I go, “No, man. I–I don’t eat rotten flesh.”  I said, “Why would I ever wanna eat something rotten?  I get my meat pretty fresh and I freeze it and I cook it up.”  I’m like, “I don’t eat rotten vegetables. Do you eat rotten vegetables?”  And he goes, “No.”  And I said, “Well, really all meat is.  It’s just being broken down into essential fatty acids and amino acids, right?  And maybe some fat-soluble nutrients. So the question, what about those fat-soluble nutrients and amino acids and fatty acids are bad?”  And the person couldn’t answer the question.  Because when you–because you wanna make the emotional appeal, right?  You get this image of rotten flesh.  It’s kinda like, you know, it’s like, “Ooh, it doesn’t feel good.”  But then you–you distill out that right brain image and you go to the left brain, well, what’s actually in that?  Like that stomach acid enzyme hate that, what does it really become?  You know, we’re not talking about rotten flesh.  We’re just talking about animal flesh that’s ideally cooked so it’s pre-broken down and we’re–obviously we’re talking higher quality stuff.  It becomes essential fatty acids, amino acids, and fat-soluble nutrients.  That’s what it becomes.  So then the question is, what about those nutrients are different in plants?  That’s then what the scientific question becomes.

Evan Brand:  Well, and what is not in those plants at–?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yes, exactly.  So this person then said, “Yeah, but, you know, where all those essential fatty acids and amino acids and fat-soluble nutrients came from?”  And I said, “Well, they came from the plants that that animal ate.”  He was like, “Yes, that’s why you should eat that.”  And I said, “I–I agree.”  I said, “Over half of my plate is typically vegetables but here’s the one piece you’re missing, is that that animal concentrates that plant matter. So it takes 6-8 pounds of vegetation to make that 1 pound of meat, so as I agree with you but what you’re getting is, you’re getting nutrient density.”  So that’s why think a–when I say a Paleo diet, I don’t like Paleo diet, I like Paleo template, because I have patients that are 90% vegan-vegetarian but are still so-called Paleo and we’ll go into why or how that is.  So I told this person, I said, “Well, the benefit is nutrient density.  I’m getting 8-9 times more of that nutrients from plant than you are because I’m getting it from a creature that’s bio-accumulated it for me and then now I’m cooking them and I’m ma–making sure that they were raised humanely and are ideally organic and no GMO feed in a natural environment like grass, now I can really get a higher level of nutrient density than you can by just eating plants alone.”

Evan Brand:  That’s true.  Yeah, and some of the B vitamins.  I mean B12 is kind of a common topic where they’ll try to outsupplement or replace that and that’s a tough one that you’re really not going to succeed with–with for a long time.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  No, you’re not gonna be able to get B12.  You’ll be able to get various B12 analogs but again, I’ve seen many vegetarians and vegans and even the good ones know that you still have to supplement B12.  So that at some level, if you’re having to supplement B12, you have to concede at some point that your diet is somewhat nutrient deficient, because if not, you wouldn’t be deficient.  You wouldn’t need the extra B12.

Evan Brand:  I’ll still take some B12 occasionally like if I’m trying to do a lot of intense exercise or if I just feel kinda low, I just have some–some fun little sublingual methyl B12 that I’ll just pop here and there, but you know, generally I feel pretty good without it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, I think it’s great to use various vitamins and nutrients to upregulate physiology and function, but we’re talking about more pathology with vegetarians.  They can come down with something known as posteriolateral sclero–sclerosis or subacute combined system disease where they literally can have this–this demyelination.  Their nervous system starts breaking down because they don’t have B12 and they can also become very anemic to the point where their ability to carry or create healthy red blood cells becomes decreased.  So we’re talking more, they’re not talking these things in is gonna actually cause potential pathology or various conditions where we’re like supplementing just because we also–we wanna be more optimum.

Evan Brand:  Yeah, right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And some people–

Evan Brand:  It’s scary.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Some people with gut issues e–even if you’re having the best diet, they may have malabsorption, so even though they’re eating good things that may not even get into their body.

Evan Brand:  Uh-hmm.  So let’s talk about what you were just mentioning before that we needed to come back to, the people that are mostly a vegetarian diet really but it can still be considered somewhat of a Paleo diet.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Evan Brand:  And how they can be healthy with that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, let’s transition over to that.  The first thing I wanna hit though is a lot of people that go vegetarian-vegan feel better. Why do they feel better at first?  So let’s go through our list of why that actually happens.  So number one, people that are vegan or vegetarian, they tend to not consume alcohol or at least in small amounts.  That’s number one. Number two, they aren’t eating the junky meat, right?  A lot of people eating hotdogs or McDonald’s, you know, processed meat.  Not that a hotdog is bad, it can be good if it’s grass-fed and organic.  But if you’re eating lower quality meat, you’re not getting–now all the hormones, the antibiotics and potential GMOs from that.  You’re also having less sugar.  You’re typically eating more green vegetables.  You’re typically exercising more and you’re not eating all of the trans-fat, all of the bad, nasty, refined trans-fat.  So just off the bat, less alcohol, and also typically more exercise, right?  So we have more exercise, less alcohol, less sugar, more vegetables, and then less chemicals and antibiotics and hormones from the bad meat.  By just taking those things out, you’re gonna have a significant benefit and vegetables are really good for you.  So if you eat more of those, you can significantly improve the quality of your life off the bat, especially if you’re coming from a bad diet to begin with.  The difference is though, most vegan-vegetarians now come to the result that their improvement had to do with them pulling meat out of their diet versus the other compounding variables that happen the exact same time while they pull the meat out of their diet, the ones I already listed.

Evan Brand:  That’s a great point.  Yeah, MSG popped in my head, too, getting that out of your diet–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Aspartame, MSG, all these excitotoxins, right?

Evan Brand:  Super helpful.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And typically people that go vegan or vegetarian typically do what?  They eat organic, right? They cut out the GMOs, too.

Evan Brand:  Hopefully.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, I mean, especially the vegans.  The vegans tend to be more on point with that.  But again, I see a lot of that vegans and vegetarians out there where their diet just becomes grains and beans and just a whole bunch of other refined grains that are very high in sugar, too. But when people come to me and they’re like, “I just felt so great going this vegan-vegetarian way.” Well, those are typically the big variables that make a huge difference and there’s one more.  If you have a compromised gut issue, you’re actually cutting down a lot of times the fat and protein in your diet, and if you’re not eating all this fat and protein, you may be able to break things down better and not have this indigestion of a–a meat brick sitting in your stomach because you can’t make the enzymes and HCL to break it down.  So a lot of times, people do better because there’s less fat, there’s less protein, their gallbladder, their enzyme, and hydrochloric acid levels aren’t being tested as much and without that test and not having that indigestion that may have been created by the meat.  Now it’s not the meat that caused the problem.  The meat was just revealing a weak link in the digestive physiology.

Evan Brand:  Yup, it’s not actually fixing the digestive problem, just taking the load off that digestive system that’s still messed up and needs to be fixed.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, exactly.  It’s like and–well, if it hurts to walk all day on–with your ankle, your ankles hurt.  Well, I’m just gonna go and use a wheelchair to fix the issue.  Well, that doesn’t fix the issue, it’s just, you know, preventing you from noticing the problem because you’re not standing or walking on that ankle.  So it’s just causing you to shift your focus a little bit, it’s–it’s really the duct tape over the check engine light.

Evan Brand:  Good one.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Oh, I can’t see.  That’s it, right?

Evan Brand:  Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Do you wanna break that down at all anymore?

Evan Brand:  No, that’s great.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Good.  So let’s kinda recap.  I’ll recap a couple of times.  So number one, when you’re having this conversation with your friend or family member, acknowledge–let the fact that they probably made a really good change especially if they’re feeling better, right?  Acknowledge, they’ve probably done a lot of good things.  Now the question is, how can we prevent them from throwing the baby out with the bathwater, right?  They’re gonna come to the conclusion that it was the meat that did it all and not all of the other things that were naturally excluded, right?  Number two, when you’re having the conversations, I always say, never show up to a gun fight with a knife, right?  So you gotta armed with facts.  So notice in the conversation when there’s an emotional appeal, and try to always take away the emotion appeal to the left brain.  You know, go into the more logic side.  And it’s a real valid approach that hey, there’s emotion, there’s life, right?  I always come at it from the form that it takes life to sustain life and that you always have to eat things that are alive and–and my–my premise to you is that your plants are just as alive whether or not you can detect it or not, your plants are just as alive.  That kind of a premise on the life side and in the next part is, well, what are our options?  Because vegetarians and vegans tend to not think there are any options.  They understand the difference between GMO vegetables and non-GMO.  They understand the difference between pesticides and organic, but for some reason, there isn’t a distinction between grass-fed organic meat and meat with antibiotics and pesticides and chemicals.  Like meat’s all like in one category but we know that there’s different categories of vegetables, right?  We know that.  But we can’t have that conversation tie into the meat and my thing with the meat is yes, there’s what we can do, the non KFO, non-caged animal stuff.  We can have them killed humanely.  We can even do a locally farmed, we can do organic, we can do grass-fed, we can do all of these good things, but a lot of vegans and vegetarians don’t like to distinguish the meat quality.  And that’s a problem with me, because if you can distinguish the quality on the vegetable side then we have to run that principal universally through on the meat side.

Evan Brand: That’s very true, yeah, and a lot the studies that people will use against me, those are gonna be your conventional crappy quality meat, so when they’ll have articles that come out like red meat causes cancer or all these other diseases, that’s not taking into account the quality of the meat itself.  You’ve been confused where maybe you’ve been eating Paleo and then you start questioning yourself.  Trust us, you’re in the right–you’re in the right frame of mind.  You just have to pay attention to what quality is actually being used in some of these research journals.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Exactly.  And then we also just have some things that evolutionary don’t make sense.  I’ll just give you for–for example, let’s say you evolved anywhere where there’s permafrost, right?  That means the ground was frozen, you could not survive on vegetables all year long.  We can even go thousands of years ago, right?  You had to eat an animal or kill an animal, if not you wouldn’t survive because we didn’t have the–the refrigeration.  We didn’t have the methods to preserve things like we did.  So you had to have–the only thing you would access to once that frost came and once your food rang–ran out was animals.  That was it.  That was the only way you could survive.  Now in the tropics it’s different, because well, you had fish all-year-round and you had vegetation all-year-round, but anywhere there was a winter, and the higher up the equator you went, the longer the winter, you had to have an animal to survive.

Evan Brand:  It wouldn’t be possible.  I mean even here in Kentucky and starting as early as December, January, February, there is nothing growing.  So you have animals and that’s pretty much it.  So I mean typically a lot of the people joke about gaining weight and being the biggest during the holiday season.  Typically if you are kinda following the seasonal food availability, you would be the leanest in the winter, just because you’re gonna be eating pretty much straight fat and protein.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yes, it’s typically higher carb in the summer, because more of the starch in the fruit’s available and lower carb during the winter, because you’re primarily on fat and protein.

Evan Brand:  Yeah, it’s amazing.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And once I bring that up, because you know, I’m–I’m pretty armed on this because, you know, vegan and vegetarian was the right way to go 10-15 years ago when I started out in this game.  Then the more I study and I tried it, it just–it didn’t work for me, because one, I–I couldn’t stabilize my blood sugar because you just can’t get enough high-quality fat and protein from eating vegetarian.  I mean, you can get your fats primarily from avocado, coconut and nuts, but when you’re talking about proteins outside of like pea protein or rice protein powders, you have to get a whole bunch of carbohydrate with your protein, rice, and beans.  15 grams of protein per 60-80 grams of carbohydrate.  You get a lot of carbs with your food.  Even humus, I mean it’s still gonna be a good amount of protein in there but you’re still gonna get a fair amount of carbs as well.  And then you gotta combine it, right?  Because a lot of these vegetarian protein sources are lower in sulfur amino acids which we need more to run our glutathione and detoxification pathways and we also need methionine and lysine to complete the essential 8–essential 8 amino acids we need.  So we tend to be missing a lot of these aminos in the plant-based products but we have them in the animal-based products.

Evan Brand:  Yeah, it’s like having 3 cylinders going in your car when you have a 6-cylinder car.  It’s like you can fill all those other ones in and have much better performance.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Exactly.  So the big benefits that we get in–from eating Paleo or a Paleo template–I had a patient just last week, who was vegetarian-vegan for a long time, we have her eating 90% vegan-vegetarian.  We just cut out all the grains.  We have her emphasizing good nuts and fats from coconut, avocado, olive oil, etc.  We have her getting into fish oil and we have her doing egg yolks and a little bit of fish to start.  And her plate’s like 90% vegetables without all the extra crapohydrate that you get in a vegan-vegetarian diet and she’s doing better.  We added in some enzymes and HCl, and she’s able to start handling some of those denser protein and fat sources better, too.  So we can always work around that.  Now the one thing we get though when we start adding in the meat is we start getting better blood sugar stability, right?  Because these things are like metabolic logs in the fire and they can keep our blood sugar from going up and down throughout the day.  So there’s a reason why you go look at cows, they have to eat all day long.  They have to eat all day long because there’s just not that blood sugar stability.  There’s not he nutrient density because you’re not getting all these fat and protein from the grass, right?  So they have to eat all day long.  They also have 5 different stomach chambers where–where they ruminate a lot of these foods and they can ferment them and create vegetable–I’m sorry–create fat-soluble nutrients and vitamins from fermenting that vegetation.  So they can do that.  We can’t.  We don’t have 5 stomachs.  We don’t have that ability and they just eat all day long.  So now looking at a lot of vegan-vegetarians, well, unless your grazing all day long, you’re gonna have massive blood sugar issues, so we gotta be eating every 4-5 hours.  That’s gonna help us to have less insulin.  It’s gonna help us stabilize blood sugar and that fat and protein will allow us to go that 4-5 hour between meals.

Evan Brand:  Yeah, you don’t have to carry around a Ziploc baggie of carrots and cucumbers. I’ve seen that a few times.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, exactly.  Oh, and also one more thing.  One more other argument that gets thrown out there a lot is, well, look at our teeth, we don’t have–we don’t have teeth like a lion or–or a tiger or a bear, right?  It’s like, well, let’s do the Math here a little bit.  So one, we have incisors, right here, these are for nipping and gnawing.  We have one tooth on each side, 4 total, called–actually I think it’s just, you know, 4 total called canines.  Interesting.  Canine.  Let’s think about that here, right?  So we have these canine teeth that allow us to really shred and–and pull apart meat.  Now not only that, we also evolved with a bigger brain and we create the things called forks and knives and tools; therefore, our body didn’t have to adapt to more fangs because we could just cut our pieces of meat up smaller, right?  We didn’t have to have all teeth to do it.  We had external tools that took pressure off our body evolving genetically.

Evan Brand:  That’s cool.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.  Alright, I think that makes a lot of sense.

Evan Brand:  It does.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  But–so those are the big attacks, so I would say, one with meats, you get better nutrient density.  Number two, you’re gonna get better blood sugar stability with fats and proteins.  Again, number three, you can still eat in alignment with nature, not having all the chemicals and the junk and mono-culture by eating local and having foods that are gluten­-free, you know, organic and GMO-free and all that good stuff.  And then number four, you can still cut out all the junk that benefitted that benefitted the vegetarian-vegan when they first went vegan-vegetarian that would benefit you.  You can still cut out all the vegetable oils and the trans-fats and the sugar and the junk alcohol, and you can still move better and eat organic.  You can still get all those benefits while having meat.  They aren’t mutually exclusive adaptations.

Evan Brand:  That’s true.  Yeah, and you’re gonna get good cholesterol that’s gonna help fuel your hormones when you’re–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Oh.

Evan Brand:  Eating eggs and good meats.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yes, and I can tell you this being a hormones specialist, specially looking at thyroid and female hormones, so many of my vegan and vegetarian patients that come in to me, come in with massive hormonal issues and it makes sense because the building blocks that make your hormones come from cholesterol and come from fat and come from protein and my sickest patients, again I know I have my bias, but I’ve only had my bias because I have evolved to see what makes me feel the best and also looking at it from an evolutionary and scientific perspective, is that protein fuels our neurochemicals.  They all come from protein.  Our hormones all come from cholesterol and typically protein, fat, and cholesterol are all connected in Mother Nature because they don’t gut protein powders out Mother Nature.  So we need these building blocks to make our hormones and our neurochemicals, too.

Evan Brand:  Yeah, and it’s the same for me.  It’s the sickest ones who are the ones with either a low-fat or low meat vegetarian type diet.  Those are the ones where their–their adrenals are just exhausted, other hormones are off, they’ve gained weight now, they’re slow, they’re cold all the time, they’re hiding under blankets because they can’t stay warm, et cetera, et cetera.  I’m sure we could do a whole show on that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, so my call to anyone that’s listening to this that is vegan or vegetarian is to–if you wanna transition over to Paleo, just try to take all the good meats or take all of the good vegetables that are like you’re green-based vegetables.  That’s gonna be your foundation, alright?  Try to choose more lower sugar fruits, not as higher as in our–in our tropical sugar fruits because we don’t wanna throw your blood sugar off.  Try to have good nuts and seeds and good fats from coconut oil and flax and olive, and then try to add in maybe a little bit of egg yolk or a little bit of salmon.  Just something like that to get some extra fats and proteins that you may not be used to as a starting point and then try to obviously make sure the food quality piece is there as well.  And anyone that’s vegetarian or vegan that has gone Paleo, and they’re like, “Crap, I don’t feel good.  My digestion is off.”  It’s not the meat.  It’s the meat revealing something is weak in your digestive physiological chain.  Do you wanna add to that, Evan?

Evan Brand:  No, that’s great, man.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Alright, cool.  I think we hit everything down.  Do you wanna kinda summarize everything back to people?

Evan Brand:  Yeah, so I mean, pick a starting place.  Get the good fats in.  If you’re still transitioning and you’re worried that your stomach’s gonna get messed up then I would look at some digestive supplements.  We have covered that a lot on our podcasts, so check out the digestive episodes to get some secrets that are gonna help you to digest things better as you start adding in these animal proteins back in, definitely adding in the coconut oil, the butters, the fun, easy things like that and then you can transition over to one day you’ll be eating some good bison meat hopefully and feeling a lot better.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  That’s great.  Awesome, Evan!  I know you got a patient you gotta run to.  I do as well.  It was great chatting.  I hope everyone that’s, you know, listening to try to make that transition that need more help because you may have nutrient issues or digestive issues, feel free to reach out to Evan or I.

Evan Brand:  Take care.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Thanks a lot, Evan.  Bye!

 

 

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