Coronavirus and Low Vitamin D Levels – Is There An Increased Risk | Podcast #286

How’s it going, everyone? In today’s podcast, Dr. J is looking at how we can help quench that inflammation and how to address low Vitamin D levels knowing that the Coronavirus is causing a lot of inflammation in the lungs. Dr. J is honing in on antioxidants, Vitamin C, glutathione (which will help with electrolytes), and Vitamin D as an immunomodulator (which gives us a better, more intelligent immune response). And what lowers our Vitamin D levels? Lack of sunlight is a big one. If you’ve been indoors almost 24/7, you’re probably not getting enough Vitamin D and this is crucial for physical and mental health. The Coronavirus cannot survive outside in direct sunlight with at least 40% humidity for more than a minute, so going out into your own backyard or walking along the sidewalk while keeping six feet away from any passerbys won’t hurt you, it’ll help you get in some Vitamin D, get some fresh air into those lungs, increase your physical movement, and more!

Dr. J and Dr. Evan Brand also look at Coronavirus case fatality by age, lending us more perspective to help lessen stress. Still, Dr. J encourages you to try and get in the foundational nutrients and minerals to strengthen your immune system: Vitamin A, Vitamin C, Vitamin D (5000 IUs), glutathione or NaC, and Zinc (30-50mg/day).

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

In this episode, we cover:

5:15 Why we need to go outside

07:21 Age brackets of coronavirus cases

10:43 Analyzing online data and stats

17:42 Vitamin D correlation

30:56 Vitamin C levels given to coronavirus patients

39:11 About the coronavirus vaccine



Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Hey, guys.  It’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani here really happy to be back. We got a fabulous podcast on deck for you today.  We’ll be chatting about the correlation and potential causation between low vitamin D and COVID-19/coronavirus infection and symptoms.  Evan, how are we doing today, man?

Evan Brand:  Doing very well.  We got off of this topic for a couple of weeks to go back to some other regular stuff but considering this is still going on—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Evan Brand:  There are still everybody on the planet wearing masks everywhere they go and places are still shut down and a lady in Dallas is getting put in jail for trying to open her salon to feed her kids.  I felt that it was important for us to discuss some of these things that are coming out in the literature.  Things that should be the headlines but they are not the headlines because they don’t involve death directly and they are free mostly or very cheap to implement like vitamin C and vitamin D.  So why don’t we go straight into this one paper that you had just sent me over, the one that was titled, “Can Early and High Intravenous Dose of vitamin C Prevent and Treat Coronavirus?” from Dr. Chang because this is pretty, pretty awesome.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Let me set table for everyone here first.  Okay?  So most of the mainstream, kinda conventional approach is to what is going on with coronavirus are very defensive measures, right?  Washing your hands, wearing a mask, okay, right?  Maybe some social distancing.  Maybe quarantine.  These are all kinda common sense, you know, defensive measures that are put in place.  There aren’t really a lot of offensive measures, right?  So we wanna take the time today and just look at some of the things that are in the literature now that there is some evidence out.  Maybe it’s correlation.  Maybe it’s causation. Again, to actually have causation you need a lot of money and studies, so that probably will never happen but we can use knowledge guided by experience to extrapolate the correlation and apply it and see how it works from n equals 1 standpoint applied in your life.  So we are excited to talk about that. Some of the things that we are lining up here are in regards to vitamin D and vitamin C and some of the data on that and the mechanism really is we know inflammation is being caused especially in the lungs by these infections. We know an increase in cytokines can also be produced.  Cytokines are these inflammatory chemical messengers that happen as a result of your immune system and/or the inflammation caused by the virus, and so what happens is your body needs things to kinda help quench the inflammation.  So there are antioxidants.  We call them redox components, right?  Vitamin C is in that pathway, so is glutathione.  They really help quench and they help give off electrons to deal with and neutralize inflammation, and then there are also nutrients like vitamin D that are immunomodulators.  They modulate the immune system and by modulating the immune system, we can have a better, more intelligent immune response, less maybe internal cytokine production.  We can also make natural antimicrobial peptides like cathelicidin and others that can really help knock down even the infection as well, because vitamin D helps modulate that Th1, Th2 immune response.  So if we have a healthier immune response, it’s theoretically we can go after and deal with the infection.  We know the infection rates are—I went over the data last week.  A lot of anecdotal, I shouldn’t even say anecdotal, but a lot of the early antibody testing, for instance, Triumph Foods plant here up in Kansas City, I saw 353 workers tested positive for coronavirus, all 100% of them had no symptoms.  They did a 3300-patient study for the jails, for the federal jails, 3300 patients had coronavirus.  They tested them antibody-wise, 96% had no symptoms, alright?  They did study up in Santa Barbara or LA area and they did a study up in Stanford/Santa Clara area, 50 times plus the amount of people that had the infection actually had antibodies.  So we know this is not a hallmark of a, let’s say a very virulent infection, and Evan will go over the data looking at the ages.  We see a lot of people that are younger are really not really coming down with it.  So that’s important to note and the CDC even said from age 0-17, the flu is actually far more severe than the coronavirus on our young people.

Evan Brand:  Yeah, so I wanna comment on one thing.  I’ll talk about the age in a second but I just wanna point out one thing you said which is that we are finding the infection rate is 50 to 80 times greater than originally thought.  Meaning when you look at all these numbers, oh, 1 new case here, 1 new case there.  That’s like headline but the reality is way more people are infected than we even know like we’re just seeing the tip of the iceberg just based on some of the antibody testing coming out and what we’re finding is I don’t wanna exaggerate it but based on these numbers that are saying 96% plus in these big groups, almost everybody has it or has had it and they’re already making antibodies towards it.  So I wanna –

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Well…

Evan Brand:  Point that out.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I’ll just say we need about 60% to get really this herd immunity level where it’s hard to pass it around.  Like if every other person has antibodies for it, it becomes very difficult to pass it around.  So over time, most people will get it, right?  You know, you can’t—unless you’re gonna totally be in quarantine forever, which I think actually negatively impacts your immune system.  It may make you more susceptible to having more symptoms and succumbing of the virus.  I think even if you’re older and you have comorbidities, you should still be outside and having reasonable social distancing.  Remember, the virus can’t live more than a minute in 75-degree temperature, 40% humidity, only a couple of minutes because we know UVC light kills the virus.  We know that.  It’s a national disinfectant.  So if you are older and you have those comorbidities, you should be outside getting fresh air, you should be getting vitamin D and still keep your distance if you’re concerned, but you should still be outside.  Staying inside is not healthy.  They did a study up at New York City and they found 60% of people that came in with the infection actually had quarantined.  So the quarantine thing is not what it is playing out to be.  I think there is more risk factors in that and how it impacts your immune system just staying inside too long.

Evan Brand:  Yeah, explain that.  It’s like, “Okay, yeah, I was quarantined for the last month.  I didn’t go anywhere but yet you still got the virus somehow”  I thought quarantine was the magic remedy.  You know—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Well, I think moving—

Evan Brand:  So how are these people getting it?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, I think moving is a big thing.  I think getting fresh air, I think getting vitamin D and sunlight, I think just being outside does something.  You know, we talk about it with—you mentioned in the past with forest bathing how it impacts cortisol levels and helps your immune system.  I forget what’s the term for forest bathing?  What’s it?

Evan Brand:  Yeah, shinrin-yoku.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Evan Brand:  And it boosts your NK killer cells, too.  They found that even—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Exactly.

Evan Brand:  Like a 2- to 3-day camping trip in the woods boosted up the NK killer cells which are anti-cancer and many other benefit for a month.  So 2 days boosted the immune system up over 50% for a month.  So this age thing, you and I talked about this before but you were looking at some Italy stuff and the average age of someone who had a fatality from it was 81 years old, and so we have this picture here from the Chinese Center for Disease Control and Korea Center for Disease Control and on and on and on, and long story short, when you’re looking at someone 0 to 9 years old, 0% fatality rate overall; 10 to 19 years old for most countries, 0% overall.  It’s not until you really get into the 30-39-year-old, 40-49, 50-59, 60-69, that you even break above 0 and then you’re getting into 0.1% in the 30-39 group, 0.3% in Spain for 40 to 49-year-olds, 50 to 59-year-old 0.4%.  So still, just really tiny numbers.  You don’t get in ’til the—until your 80 plus years old that you’re getting into a 13% plus fatality rate and even then, we know with Dr. Birx who came on TV and said, “Hey, all of the cases that could possibly be related are still gonna be tagged as COVID until further research and then maybe we’ll go back and adjust those numbers later.”  So how many 81-year-olds are dying that just happen to have the coronavirus in their system.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I’m not sure if you caught it over the weekend.  Dr. Birx said—she was commenting about the head of the CDC.  She said that there could be up to 25% incorrect on the CDC data points on the COVID-19 deaths/diagnosis.  So she commented that over the weekend which is interesting.  I wanna share some data here on screen just to kind of bolster the things that you’re saying.  So if you guys are listening to this, you can always jump on the Youtube link as well to get some more information.  So here’s the study that Evan was showing here, looking at corona case fatality rates by age.  So you can see here 0-9, 10-19, 20-29, so I mean you’re at looking at very minuscule percentage points here, right?  Very minuscule percentage points, 30-39 and then it starts really going up significantly once you get into 60-79 but even that, I mean, really it’s 70 and 80 is where it really goes up.  You still only have a chance, you know, a 1% to 2% chance in the 60-69, right?  Yeah.

Evan Brand:  Well, let me point this out, too, real quick while you got that up which is that the percentages are actually gonna be lower than what is showing here because these numbers are based on confirmed cases.  So confirmed cases, confirmed death.  So if there’s many other people that have had it, they might not even show up here.  So, if you know what I’m saying, so on their website.  This is a world data website.  They’re saying you can’t even take these numbers and really publicly talk about them too much because we haven’t had enough testing.  So once we do get tested, let’s say we tested another hundred thousand people and put them in that pool, those death rates would be way, way, way, way lower.  Those are confirmed cases and then confirmed deaths.  So, basically how many other people are out there that have it haven’t gotten tested and therefore, their numbers don’t get factored in. So it makes it look worse than it even is.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So here are the coronavirus deaths from last week, okay?  And so how it works is this.  You have the top numbers the deaths, the bottom numbers the case.  So you divide the top number by the bottom number and then you get a percentage, okay?  That’s how you figure out the mortality rate.  So when Evan talks about this, this data here is if there are more cases than we know about, right?  That makes the denominator the bottom number bigger, right?  And what we’re finding is, the cases are actually getting far more bigger because of the fact the asymptomatics.  The data is showing a 50X asymptomatic being present.  Looking at the Stanford study, they show data there and up at the study up in Chelsea, Mass. in Boston.  Study down in the UCLA area.  USC did a study.  So there’s about 3 to 5 different studies on this already out there.  I did a video on this last Friday on my Youtube channel.  We’ll put that video in the description so you can go dive into that.  So the data’s there.  Now, we do know here.  This came from Italy.  Right here, this study here.  It only bolstered what we talked about so you can see it came from a government agency, Istituto Superiore di Sanità.  Even though my last name is Marchegiani, I don’t really speak the best Italian.  So—

Evan Brand:  I had a lady—I actually had a client go, “Yeah, I like listening to you and that Italian guy.”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  You got it.  I gotta brush up on my Italian, right?

Evan Brand:  Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  But in general, you can see number 1.  It primarily came in 2 major areas here.  Right about 60 what, 69%.  It came in 2 major areas.  There’s a reason why two 2 areas were hit really hard.  I can go into it briefly but Lombardi is a big area where there’s a lot of textiles produced there.  So a lot of Italian textiles are produced, right?  China bought a lot of companies.  Italian clothing companies, brand companies, and instead of making it in China, they wanted to keep the Made in Italy type of logo and branding on there, so they fly a lot of Chinese up here to these areas to work on the products in the textile industry in the mills.  So part of the reason why these areas were hit so hard is there was a flow of Chinese up here to go work in the textiles.  So that’s a big reason why, not to mention there is a just a lot of elderly population up there.  Now, let’s look at the data.  So if you go down a little bit lower.  You could see the average age is a little bit over 80.  About 80, 81-ish, and then when you look at the people that actually die, I mean, look you don’t really have an increase until you get in the 60s.  I mean, look at that.  So this is the deaths here and you can see men are actually being hit, about two-thirds are men and one-third are women, and you don’t have an increase in women until you get to up 90+.  That’s probably because most of the men are already dead by then.  So you can see that spread right there and then look at the diagnosis, right?  So this is interesting because they break down more percent of people had what disease that died of COVID.  Now, when you go down at the bottom, a number of comorbidities.  Look at this, 3 or more comorbidities, 61%.  That is unbelievable.  So there—what’s being put, portrayed in the media is that this is an infection that could just take anyone down, right?  No matter what.  No, that’s not the case.  Not even close.  The data does not support that.  Now, when we actually put reason, logic, and evidence here, there’s a lot less fear guiding people.  This is a disease that’s gonna take primarily elderly people, people that have multiple comorbidities.  Now is it possible that you’re gonna see a news article with someone who is 20 or 29 passing?  Yeah, I mean 0.2% in China, 0.22% in Spain, 0 in Italy, right?  Once you hit 30-39, then you had 0.3%.  Is it possible someone from this age category could die?  Yeah, it’s very possible.  You don’t know what their comorbidity status is.  There’s HIPAA laws in the United States so, you’re not gonna see reporters saying, “Hey, this person was a type 2 diabetic.  Hey, this person eats processed food.  Hey, this person whatever.”  You’re not gonna get that data.  So it’s easy for people to be like, “Ooh, I’m so scared.  It’s attacking people that are in their 30s.”  You just don’t know about that person and obviously, you don’t even know if the person they’re putting up on screen is even in the last couple of years or their most relevant decade.  A lot of times they are notorious for showing younger pictures of people that have passed.  That’s pretty common.  So I just wanna lay out the data and just look at, you know, what these statistical norms are for these infections so people can get a perspective, and then part of the correlation and why it’s older people is number one, you have had more time to accumulate a disease because the bad habits compounded over time is what creates diseases, right?  And then also, certain nutrients like vitamin C and vitamin D go down over age and we’ll look at the data in a second on that.

Evan Brand:  Yeah, you did good.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  It is here.

Evan Brand:  No, I’m glad you pointed out the three—the comorbidities and over 61% of the deaths and I’m glad you showed for people that are just listening, that’s okay.  You’re not missing out on much.  We’re just talking about the numbers here, so hopefully it makes sense.  But the hysteria math versus the reality math, I really like that you put that together because once you talk about the—which really you did even put what’s coming out now.  You put on here there’s 50X asymptomatic.  Now, we’re seeing it could even be 80X asymptomatic but the real death rate with your 50X asymptomatic math is showing a 0.01 death rate versus if we go up to 80, I mean, it’s gonna be even smaller than 0.01 deaths.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And this is less than the flu already by the way.  So the numbers are, just so you’ll understand.  Hysteria math is not understanding the full breadth of the case, okay?  So not understanding the full population—the extent to which people are affected across the board because the asymptomatics prevent people from being tested that have no symptoms, right?

Evan Brand:  Well, can we—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  They’re not gonna go to the hospital.

Evan Brand:  Now, let me ask you.  Let me ask you this real quick, too, based on what you said over the weekend happened.  So you’re saying that the hysteria math is even gonna be cut down by 25% now, is that right?  Because of what Birx was saying?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.  Yup, I’ll pull that article up here in a second.  But that is what is showing here as well.  The hysteria math may even be cut down more and there’s 2 different diagnostics codes.  I’ve already talked about it in the past but the hysteria math, the diagnostics codes are U07.1, U07.2.  Let me pull this up here as we chat.  This will hopefully help you guys out.  It will give you a little bit more info here.  I’m gonna help you guys out on this, okay?

Evan Brand:  And while you’re doing that, let’s talk about what the whole point of today is, so we can’t spend all day on the stats but what people really want to hear is that, well, I think we covered a lot of which one here, which is that the numbers just are not adding up to what is happening in society, with police arresting people, and you know, using helicopters, the surveillance speech, and they’ve talked about these contact tracer programs and apps to track people, and all that.  Just weird 1984-style stuff.  But what we’re seeing in some of these new papers here and this is more, as you mentioned, correlation.  This is not necessarily low vitamin D causes blank, but we’re finding that if someone has a level of 30—30 ng, it’s gonna be ng/mL but if you get a standard vitamin D test, just look at your number, 25(OH )is what you’re gonna look at on your blood work.  There’s little to no death at all occurring if the vitamin D is above 30.  So if you’re vitamin D is above 30, if you get it, chances are it’s gonna be mild to moderate at most.  All the major, major, major numbers of death, those had very, very, very low vitamin D.  You’re talking a level of 10, a level of 20.  Those are people that are ending up in real trouble.  So the mean serum, 25(OH)D level in the critical cases was the lowest.  The highest in the mild cases.  So when I’m saying this, it sounds confusing like I’m just thinking of someone driving their car listening to this.  It may sounds confusing.  So I’m trying to make it as simple as possible.  High vitamin D, more mild.  Low vitamin D, more severe.  It’s basically that simple.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Correct.  And then, here’s an article by Washington Post right here.  So during the task force meeting on Wednesday, heated discussion broke out between Deborah Birx from the physician administration and Robert Redfield, he is the director of the CDC.  Birx and others were frustrated with the CDC’s antiquated system of tracking virus data which they worried was inflating some statistics such as mortality rate and case counts by as much as 25%, according to 4 people present for the discussion.  Two senior administration officials said the discussion was not heated.  So we have this 25% number that is interestingly popping up.  So I just—I wanted to highlight that and then here’s some of data here briefly I wanted to highlight more than 370 workers at a pork plant in Missouri tested positive, right?  We go down here and look at the data.  What do they say?  All of them were asymptomatic.  All were asymptomatic, okay?  We go here and look at the—in 4 US state prisons, nearly 3300 inmates tested positive for coronavirus, 96% without symptoms, okay?  Now, let me just be clear.  Asymptomatic means you develop an immune response.  You develop antibodies.  You are infectious for 2 weeks or so on average.  The infection is no longer shedding after about 2 weeks on average.  You have antibodies and now more than likely you won’t be able to get sick for years.  Now, we go to the USC study, similar, similar thing here.  USC study, they found that the estimate 28 to 55 times higher in the antibodies versus the confirmed cases, okay?  We have a study here, Science Magazine, similar type of category here.  On this thing here, this I think is looking at Germany though.  I think this is up in Europe and the same thing, I had it highlighted here earlier.  I will have to come back to this one.

Evan Brand:  Well, I saw one thing at the top there where it said that the infection rate was 30% higher.  I saw that near the top of that article.  It was talking about Germany and did it say Netherlands as well?  Yeah, there it goes.  Survey results Netherlands, Germany, several locations in the US find that anywhere from 2 to 30% of certain populations have already been infected with it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Exactly.  Yup, exactly.  There is an actual number down here.  I had it highlighted earlier but, let’s see here, 99% false positive—

Evan Brand:  There’s a—are you talking about the paragraph right there at the top?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Here it is.  There it is, right there.  That’s more than 50 times as many viral gene test had confirmed and implies a low fatality rate.  So 50 times the amount of viral—meaning there are 50 times more people that had the antibodies than the viral gene test had confirmed.  That’s what I’m saying there.  So 50 times more people had antibodies which showed previous infection that were actually testing positive for the infection.  And then the Guardian right here, coronavirus antibody study in the California, right here in the county here at the high end, was 85 times, okay?  85 times, right there.

Evan Brand:  And people are listening and they’re like, “Wait a second.  What are you saying?  85 times?”  That the infection rate is 85 times higher than previously thought.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  For every 1 person that test positive with this PCR-DNA swab, they take the little swab, they put it to the back of your nose and hit the back of your throat, you test positive, right?  So when I say 50 times, that means that there are 50 other people that never had the infection symptomatically that are testing serologically positive for it.  Meaning they have an immune response showing that they got exposed to the infection.  Does that make sense?

Evan Brand:  It does.  But when people hear that, they go, “Oh my God! Well, 50 times more people are infected, well, I need to stay away from humans ever.  Don’t hug your mother for Mother’s Day.”  Those were some of the headlines.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  No, that means that this virus is not as virulent as we thought it is.  And maybe—so contagious is meaning, it is easy to spread, right?  I think the virus is very contagious.  It is easiness to spread.  That’s the R-nought number, right?  The virulence is how the strong the infection is, right?  So you have like a virus like Ebola, it kills 40% of people that it comes in contact with.  That’s strong virulence.  Ebola, not that contagious.  I think it only spread to a couple of thousand people.  So usually, in kind of virus world, there tends to be a correlation with the more virulent the virus, the stronger and the more chance that it can kill you, usually the less contagious it is.  Now, you have the Spanish flu of 1918, right?  Why was that a big deal?  Well, we didn’t have antibiotics, right?  So there’s a lot of post-viral secondary pneumonia that happens that if you don’t have antibiotics then a lot of times that’s the pneumonia that kills you.  Not to mention we had a second wave in 1918 because of people coming back, soldiers coming back from World War 1 in Germany that re-brought back the infection.  Not to mention I don’t think we really had a lot of the good sterile things like—we didn’t really have a lot of the hygiene things kinda fully dialed in back then either, and I know there were big, huge changes when they started doing hospitals outside and getting more vitamins.  That also made a huge game change there as well.

Evan Brand:  Well, good point.  I’m really glad that you pointed out that there is the issue of virulence versus how easy it can spread and those often get conflated together.  Those 2 things get kinda fused and mended.  So the media will make it appear that it is extremely virulent but it could just be low virulence, high contagion.  And that’s—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Exactly.

Evan Brand:  That doesn’t sell as many newspaper articles or ad clicks or whatever else.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Exactly.  I wanted to put a couple of studies that came out recently out there.  Vitamin D supplementation could possibly improve clinical outcomes of patients infected with coronavirus.  Now, these are observational studies, okay?  Meaning they didn’t do a clinical control.  They didn’t put—they didn’t do someone in a metabolic ward, gave him a virus and then gave him vitamin D, and then did the same thing to another group and gave them the virus and no vitamin D, and randomized it.  That’s like the double-blind placebo control study.  That’s not this.  This is observational and there’s always the healthy user bias.  What’s the healthy user bias?  The healthy user bias is people that take care of themselves and do the right thing and drink good water and get some sleep and move, and may also have good vitamin D, right?  So then people that have good vitamin D, they may be doing a lot of other things right that keep them healthy.  And so we may be seeing that in here, so it’s always possible.  But in the study, I’ll just put it up here and then people always ask like, “What’s the link? What’s the link?”  Right here.  This is the link, okay?  That’s the link right there.  We’ll try to put the links in below the video as well.  Let’s look at the study.  Let me just go right down to the conclusion.  The results suggest that an increase in serum 25-hydroxy vitamin D level in the body could either improve clinical outcome or mitigate the severe critical outcomes.  While a decrease in the serum 25-hydroxy vitamin D level could worsen clinical outcomes.  In conclusion, this study provides substantial information to clinical—to clinicians and help policymakers.  Vitamin D supplementation could possibly improve clinical outcomes of patients infected with COVID-19.  Further research should conduct randomized controlled trials in larger population studies to evaluate recommendations.  That’s I think very powerful right there.

Evan Brand:  And let me just point this was the same stuff that just a month ago people were getting flagged as fake news and videos were removed and whatever else and people were saying this early on, vitamin D, vitamin C, you and I were saying this and not us directly, but others had been told that this was like misinformation and whatever.  No, I mean, it’s coming out more and more to be true and it makes total sense.  We knew that from the beginning.  It’s just good to have some papers to back it up now.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah and basically, the cut off was vitamin D status below 30 ng/mL was associated with more severe disease and mortality in the Southeast Asian study, okay?  And then in general, one study gave adequate stats was 31.2.  So basically, when you went above 30 or 35, things definitely improved.  So levels above 34 is associated with an improvement.  So that was kinda the general gist.  So that’s just kinda highlighting that there and then if we can go here to this study, vitamin D level of mild and severe in elderly cases they found here most male and female subjects had 25-hydroxy vitamin D levels below 30.  Also, most of the subjects with pre-existing conditions had 25-hydroxy vitamin D level below 30.  So now the question here is, well, is it because they are sick and unhealthy?  Now they have a harder time getting outside and getting vitamin D.  So maybe the diseases are also causing them to have lower vitamin D and then the diseases themselves make them more susceptible to the infection.  So these are always—these I’m just talking about like like confounding variables, things that could be affecting the situation that we’re not really factoring.  So I’m just kinda spitballing, you know, off the cup with you guys.  Majority of subjects classified as severe 25-hydroxy vitamin D levels were below 30, 25-hydroxy vitamin D levels were negatively related although clinically—clinical trials could provide more meaningful findings are the causation that 25-hydroxy D levels in COVID-19 severity.  Basic healthy solutions such as vitamin D supplementation could be raised even in community levels and awareness of vitamin D benefits in fighting infections such as COVID-19 should be disseminated especially in the vulnerable elderly population.  So they found it important enough that we should be raising the awareness of vitamin D in our elderly population.  I think that was very, very important and powerful.  You wanna comment there?

Evan Brand:  Yeah, it makes sense.  Yeah, I just sent you a link in the chat from this New York Post story.  So let’s move on from vitamin D and if you need a good vitamin D source, we do have professional-grade formulas.  So you can—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Correct.

Evan Brand:  Get a hold of us, or my website  What we like to use is vitamin D usually around 5,000 units depending on the case and then we have professional versions that are also gonna have vitamin K1 and K2, which are very beneficial and those can help with reducing any potential blood clotting issues because there have been a couple of papers, a couple of articles coming out on people having blood coagulation problems—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Correct.

Evan Brand:  And having more severity so the K1 and K2 would help in theory thin the blood a little and reduce risk.  But check out this New York Post one that—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Actually with Vitamin K though, vitamin K may actually increase the clotting.  So you may want to be a little bit careful on the vitamin K.  Some of the over-the-counter Naproxen is showing to be a little bit beneficial, maybe a little bit of white willow bark aspirin, baby aspirin, or maybe some natural white willow bark could be helpful or some higher dose like nattokinase enzymes.  So maybe the systemic enzymes could also be very, very helpful in kinda thinning things out.  So be careful with the vitamin K.  Now, if you’re getting it from food, from green vegetables or ghee or butter, you’re probably okay.  So I wanted to highlight that.

Evan Brand:  Yeah, I must have said it wrong. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Anything else you want to say?

Evan Brand:  I must have said it wrong.  Yeah, no you did good.  For some reason I was thinking that there was some issue with like the Coumadin and the vitamin K combo.  I guess we’re thinking that the blood—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  It inhibits the vitamin K.

Evan Brand:  It’s gonna mess it up.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:   It’s gonna mess it up.  Now again, like I would never say don’t eat your green vegetables or don’t eat your ghee because I think that there’s enough nutrition and antioxidants in those compounds.  Like in this study, we’ll talk about it.  They talk about sulforaphane actually helping with a lot of the cytokines and that inflammation.  Well, guess what?  That’s what the infection is causing.  So we wouldn’t ever wanna decrease the nutrients.  I just think you wanna hold those nutrients stable and let your doctor, you know, know about that if they’re gonna be adding a blood thinner in there.  It’s really only gonna matter if you’re doing something on the more like vitamin K inhibition side, right?

Evan Brand:  Okay, yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  There are other ways to thin out bloods besides that.

Evan Brand:  Alright, makes sense.  Alright, so check out that New York Post I sent you.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Okay, let’s take a look at that.

Evan Brand:  That was the Vitamin C one where basically this guy in the US, Dr. Weber, had basically looked at what was coming out of China and so he started implementing it in the US and you know, they’re talking about 23 different hospitals throughout New York.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Let me get it on screen.  Let me get it on screen here for everyone to see.

Evan Brand:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So this is it here, New York Post treating with Vitamin C.

Evan Brand:  Yeah, and towards the bottom, he was talking about vitamin C levels in coronavirus patients dropped dramatically when they suffer sepsis and inflammatory response, so it makes all the sense in the world to try to maintain this level of it and there’s something else—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Vitamin C is administered in addition to such as the anti-malaria drug, that’s hydroxychloroquine, the antibiotic azithromycin, versus—and various biologics and blood thinners.  Yeah, it makes.

Evan Brand:  And then towards the top where his headshot is, go up where his headshot is, scroll up a little bit.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Evan Brand:  Yeah, so right there.  The patients who received vitamin C did significantly better than those who did not get vitamin C.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Really interesting.  Let me kind of dovetail on that.  So this is a study, actually out of China.  Medical Drug and Discovery, this is early March.  Can early and high intravenous vitamin D—vitamin C prevent and treat coronavirus?  So this is interesting.  So they’re talking about the acute respiratory distress syndrome and they’re talking about early uses of large dose of antioxidants and they abbreviated it as VC, vitamin C, may be an effective treatment for these patients.  Clinical studies also show that high doses of oral vitamin C provide certain protection against viral infection, which is great.  Neither of these things have side effects, which is awesome.  I mean, if you go too high on the vitamin C, you could get loose stool.  You may bypass that if you’re doing intravenous.  They talk about coronavirus and influenza are among the pandemic viruses that can cause lethal lung injuries, right?  The acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS).  Viral infections could evoke cytokine storm that leads to lung capithelial and endothelial activation, neutrophil infiltration—that’s the white blood cells getting in there and lots of oxidative stress, right?  Which create reactive oxygen and nitrogen species.  What’s oxidation, everyone?  That’s a loss of electron, like when you’re in doctorate school, right?  You remember the saying OIL RIG, okay?  Oxidation is a loss of an electron and reduction is a gain of electron.  So when someone talks about oxidation, they’re talking about losing electrons and guess what?  We have antioxidants.  What’s an antioxidant?  Anti—it’s an anti-loss of electron compound.  So basically, they are donating electrons—they’re donating electrons when electrons are lost.  That’s what vitamin D—that’s what vitamin C is doing.  And so—so talks about it is usually accompanied by uncontrolled inflammation, oxidative injury and damage to the alveolar capillary barrier.  So what happens is with the capillaries, there’s the what’s called Boyle’s law where there’s gases exchanged, right?  Deoxygenated gases or deoxygenated blood is being exchanged with oxygenated blood and then it goes back up to the left atrium, back to the left ventricle and then that oxygenated blood goes, but if there’s inflammation and damage to the capillaries and the alveoli in the lungs, you’re not gonna be able to exchange oxygen.  That’s why you’re seeing this oxygen drop.  So increased oxidative stress is a major insult in pulmonary injury and it manifests with substantially high mortality and morbidity.  Now this is interesting, they talked about in the case report 29 patients with COVID-19 pneumonia showed an increase in C-reactive protein.  That’s a marker of inflammation.  It’s a marker of oxidative stress and they talked about that activation of the Nrf2 signaling plays an essential role in preventing cell injury from oxidative stress.  So Nrf is like this anti-aging path that people try to increase with magnesium.  They increase this with curcumin.  They increase it with bioflavonoids like resveratrol.  They increase it with compounds like milk thistle which help actually decrease a lot of this oxidation.  Alright, I’ll pause right there, Evan, so you can comment.  Go ahead.

Evan Brand:  No, I think you’ve hit it all but the best part of this paper is right there at the bottom of your screen there, which is showing that they’re doing—they’ve had 50 and I mean, I’m sure the numbers are much higher than now because more time has passed but that in the treatment of 50 moderate to severe cases, high-dose vitamin C was successfully used.  Doses vary between 10 and 20 grams a day and there was another part of this.  It may have been another paper I have but basically, it was showing that even 6 grams a day oral was enough to reduce the infection risk and/or to improve symptoms so it’s amazing.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Correct. 

Evan Brand:  Yeah, it’s right there.  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Correct.  Yup, 100%.  I think what you said—and I’m putting all the studies up on screen because I know what we’re saying may be a little bit controversial in case people are watching a lot of mainstream news that may be like, “Well, why the heck haven’t we been—have heard about this stuff?”  Well, frankly it’s because certain governmental agencies they’re gonna, you know, tell the partyline in food and supplements and natural compounds really isn’t part of that which is kinda sad as this study over here showed, you know, they mentioned that vitamin D should be disseminated especially to the vulnerable population.  Meaning that information should be disseminated.  Research is saying it, so it’s not me saying it.  Of course, that’s kinda where my bias lies because I think vitamins, especially essential nutrients your body can’t make of course should be at adequate levels.  Let me go back to this study here.  So the oxygenation index improved in real-time so people were actually getting better oxygen exchange.  They were cured and were discharged.  In fact, high-dose vitamin C has been clinically used for several decades in recent NIH expert panel, and again I’m not saying by the way, right?  I’m not saying people were cured.  I’m saying the study said that.  So that’s not me speaking that, right?  We don’t ever cure disease, right?  Of course, only a drug can cure disease, right?  That’s my legal disclaimer there.  Alright, because of the development of the efficacious vaccines, antiviral drugs, because of the developments in these drugs, how they take more time to occur, right?  18 months for a vaccine.  Vitamin C and other antioxidants are among currently available agents to mitigate COVID-19 and then the acute respiratory disease syndrome.  Given the facts of the high-dose vitamin C is safe, healthcare professionals should take a close look at these opportunity.  Obviously, well-designed clinical studies need to be developed so you can create the right protocols.  But in general, there’s good data for this and I think this is a first-line thing that I have been saying from day 1.  We look at the nutrients we need to support our immune system.  What are the foundational ones?  Vitamin A, cod liver oil, vitamin C, you know, your leafy green vegetables and some of your low-sugar fruit but also get it supplementally so it’s more therapeutic.  Vitamin D, sunlight, some places mostly supplementation to get at that higher level, right?  My goal was about 50 ng/mL on the vitamin D.  So I think a good standard recommendation is 5,000 IU for every person.  It gets pretty decently standard.  You could go 10,000 if you’re lower and you need more of a bump and if you’re uncertain, get tested if you can.  But if you don’t wanna leave the home, at least 5,000 is a good starting point as well.  And then so vitamin A, vitamin C, vitamin D and then we could use something like glutathione or an N-acetylcysteine precursor which have been shown to help with the oxidative stress and they also help decrease viral replication.  Not necessarily shown with COVID but it is showing with other viruses to decrease replication.  So that’s kinda like my foundational nutrient stack for anyone listening and then obviously, we can throw some zinc in there as well, 30 to 50 mg of elemental zinc per day.

Evan Brand:  That’s awesome.  Well, let’s wrap it up.  We talked longer than I thought we would on this thing but I am glad we kinda broke down some of these papers because people need to see this stuff and once again, this is not gonna be seen in headline, you know, 6 grams of vitamin D can reduce your risk X amount of percent.  That just won’t be there.  It’s gonna be death toll rises.  I saw one headline over the weekend, life changes as we wait for a vaccine, you know, it’s all this cure me, cure me stuff, but I’m not personally waiting for a magic cure to come.  I’m implementing all these strategies we’re discussing now to reduce my risk as much as possible.  So if I were to get it, you know, hopefully I’d be in that mild to possibly asymptomatic case period.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  You know, people talk about a vaccine coming, I mean, we’ve had 2 other coronaviruses in 2002 and 2003.  We have the SARS coronavirus and then 2015, we had the MERS.  So there’s been a lot—there’s been a lot of time that’s passed and we still don’t have a vaccine.  So people forget that.  So the fact that we don’t have a vaccine for other coronaviruses, odds are there probably won’t be one for this and also, we don’t have even a vaccine for HIV.  So, I’m not aware of any vaccine for an RNA-based virus.  So people can correct me in the description.  I’m not aware of any vaccine that is available for an RNA-based virus so the odds are looking at past history there probably won’t be one this time around but I could be wrong, right?  I know they’re doing different types of vaccines that are more like protein.  They are like taking a specific protein in the virus and they’re trying to make a vaccine that targets that protein but not necessarily attack the virus so they’re doing different things.  I think what’s really interesting is the—is if you have a lot of people that have antibodies, let’s go do platelet therapy.  Let’s go spin out the platelet.  Let’s do a blood transfusion, take the antibodies out of the platelets and then give them the antibodies in an IV.  I mean, I think that’s just a common sense first-line therapy along with all of the nutrients, right?  That we talked about and then maybe we play around with the hydroxychloroquine, azithromycin, and zinc protocol as well if we need.  So I think we have some really good treatments, palliative acute treatments now where maybe a vaccine isn’t even necessary if we can get things under control and get an adequate amount of herd immunity.  It may be totally moot at that point once herd immunity is in place.

Evan Brand:  I saw the president talking over the weekend, people were asking like, “How can life go back to normal without a vaccine?”  And he just was like, “I think is gonna go away on its own without it, so maybe we don’t need it after all.”  But when you see headlines about, you know, X amount of states or X governor says that people must wear masks until a vaccine is created.  What if a vaccine does never come?  That means you’re gonna wear a mask for the next 5 years and what if those people choose not to get it?  Do the people who choose not to get it can’t go back to the grocery store?  Like what, I mean, it’s just, it’s weird.  They’re not really talking about that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Well, how did life go back to normal after the 1918 flu?  I mean, like 3 million died.  Do you know in 1918, Woodrow Wilson didn’t even shut down the economy?  They just kept rolling.  3 million people died.  How do we go back after that?  We did it.  How do we go back after a million people died in the Civil War?  We did it.  How do we go back to life after World World 1 and World War 2 in Vietnam?  We did it, you know.  I mean, our country, United States is a very resilient, very resilient country.  So I’m confident we can do it and I think there’ll be herd immunity in the background that will provide this extra buffer of support.  We didn’t even know about antibodies.  I mean, they actually were doing some antibody, you know, infusion back then in the 1918.  They really didn’t know what was going on.  They didn’t have the testing that we have now.  So we are lightyears above and beyond a lot of this stuff and I think we even—I don’t even think we had vitamin D supplementation back then.  So we are so ahead of the game.  I’m feeling really confident and I’m ready for people to get back to work.

Evan Brand:  Yup, I hear you.  Well, let’s wrap this thing up.  We are available around the world with people.  So we work by sending lab tests, unless it’s blood we send you out to a lab, but for the other labs we do, you do it at your home.  And so if you wanna reach out clinically, get help, boost your immune system up, if you just need to simply run some blood panels or we can look at CRP levels, and vitamin D and things like that, we are available to help facilitate that if need be.  So you could reach out to Dr. J at his website,  My website, and we’re glad to be here for you.  So take good care.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Excellent, everyone.  Great chatting with y’all.  If you enjoy the podcast, put your comments down below.  Really excited to know what you guys think, what you guys are doing, what’s working for you clinically.  We appreciate you spreading the word to family and friends.  Sharing is caring and if you wanna write a review as well,, for a review.  We really appreciate it, guys.  You take care.  Have a good one.

Evan Brand:  See you later.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Bye. Buh-bye.



Audio Podcast:

Stomach Acids, Enzymes and Insulin-Driven Issues and Supplementation | Podcast #191

Welcome to today’s live podcast with Dr. J and Evan Brand! Watch as they dig into the different issues concerning gut health and supplementation, like Insulin-driven skin problems, malabsorption, enzymes, kidney stones, detoxifying and other digestion-related topics they randomly answer.

Stay tuned for more functional health information, and don’t forget to share!

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

In this episode, we cover:

02:15  Estrogen and Insulin-Driven Skin Issues

05:50  Enzyme Synergy Versus Digest Synergy

10:00  When to take what Supplements

16:25  HCl, Enzymes and Digestive Supplements

19:49  Organic Buckwheat Crisp



Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey, there! It’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani. Evan Brand is here in the house as well. Evan, how is your Father’s Day, man?

Evan Brand: Oh, dude, Father’s Day was great. It was my second. Was this your first…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: …Father’s Day?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I may— I guess it’s my First. My— My son last year at this time was in my wife’s belly…

Evan Brand: [laughs]

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …I think six months— s— so, six to seven months in. So he was still— he was still alive and kicking, so it felt like my second. But, yeah. It was great. I got this awesome little gift from my wife.

Evan Brand: What did you get?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: This. She made this little thing…

Evan Brand: [crosstalk] Oh! Dude, that’s great!

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and then that’s me with him. That’s Aden right there.

Evan Brand: Oh, man.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And he’s a super little healthy dude. [crosstalk] Really healthy…

Evan Brand: Actually nice.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: But yeah. That’s— Melts my heart. [inaudible]

Evan Brand: [crosstalk] Yeah. Your wife was uh— Your wife was showing me his swimming skills when I was over at your house so we went to the pool. Uh— He— He’s doing pretty good for a little guy.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: He’s doing great. I, too, took him out to a steak restaurant in Austin, and he had a little meltdown halfway through. He forgot to check his diaper. Like— It’s this like…

Evan Brand: Uuuh—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …the most obvious thing sometimes.

Evan Brand: [laughs]

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s like phew!

Evan Brand: [laughs]

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: But he was eating a whole bunch of steak and and red wiine. He’ll pound down five ounces for a steak in a meal.

Evan Brand: That’s amazing.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. He just crushed it. And the thing is he has had no real exposure to sugar outside of like having berries so it’s really interesting because he is totally carnivorous, will choose meat over anything else. Where— I see lots of other parents, where their kids are getting like lots of these like eating Yogurt, sweetened things, a lot of juices. I really feel like like that numbs your taste buds ‘cause they really don’t want to eat meat or these higher protein and fat-rich foods. They’re just like all about the sugar. So that’s one thing I’ve noticed. So any parents out there— you know, your kid’s coming to this world with this blank slate. Keeps their taste buds as “El Natural” as possible.

Evan Brand: Do you do uh— applesauce with them?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhm— Actually, we’ll just cut up apples.

Evan Brand: But no applesauce?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhm— In the beginning, we did a little bit but not much. I mean, we do like a little bit of mashed sweet potatoes or mashed Avocado. Uhm— But no, not a ton of applesauce. He’s able to just— We do a lot of baby like weanings so we just cut up the thin strip of apple or the thin strip of pear, or the thin nectarine, and then just let him eat— let him eat it like that.

Evan Brand: That’s smart.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: That’s smart.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, absolutely. So I know we only have a little bit of time today so we’re gonna just do a live Q&A. We had a couple of questions here. So, we’re gonna just dig in. Let’s go through them.

Evan Brand: yes, let’s do it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh— Gabe writes in, “Lately, my wife spends seeing more tiny moles started to appear on her face. Any explanation why?” So, couple of things. When you see moles grow, the first thing I always want to know is Estrogen and Insulin. So, really make sure carbohydrate and Insulin is under control. Insulin will cause things to grow. And then, we can just do a little bit of Google Search and do Hyperinsulin— Hyperinsulinemia and Moles, right— and you’ll see it. Skin manifestations of Insulin resistance, and you’re gonna see that a lot of uhm— skin stuff can be driven by Insulin. A lot of Acne as well. Right? A lot of Acne as well, because Insulin causes things to grow.

Evan Brand: Yeah. You got— You always got to start with the diet. I think that’d be the most simple thing, right? Make sure…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm—

Evan Brand: …she got like a Paleo template to start with, she’s regulating Insulin, and there’s always other root causes that could affect Insulin too. Like gut issues can affect blood sugar, which could affect these Moles.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup. So I would always look at the— the blood sugar, the quality of food. I’d look at pesticides and chemicals in the environment. I want to make sure those things are under control. And then, of course, you know, the gut’s a mirror of the skin. So, everytime I see a gut— a skin issue, I always think gut, so you can always do a nice little gut cleanse. Uh— You get to do some gut testing, do some gut clearing, and then uhm— you can always work on some detox as well because things will get pushed out via the detoxification system, which will be the skin as well. So, activated charcoal, glutathione, Sulfur amino acids are gonna be great, and then uhm— You know, there’s always a chance that it could be a viral thing, too, like a Papillomavirus thing.

Evan Brand: Good point.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhm— But— Yeah. But, you know, a lot of the herbs we may use. Like in my GIClear 4 and 6, there’s a lot of Olive leaf, so I would just use a 4 and 6 in there and that extra Olive leaf will have some good antiviral effects too.

Evan Brand: Yeah. You— You kind of briefly mentioned some of your supplements, but I want people to understand that uh— you know, part of your goal is to provide professional grade supplements to people even if they’re not your clients or patients. So if you guys tune in to this in the future, if you’re tuning in right now, you can go check out— There’s an entire library, basically online natural pharmacy so to speak, of various nutraceuticals and things that Dr. J has formulated. So when he says like, “Hey! My GI Clear 4,” that’s what it means. And you can go check out those formulas. So, we’re always happy for people to piece together these herbs but, obviously it’s better if you get some lab testing to figure out if you actually need them. But if you’re searching fish oils, Collagen, proteins, which his is amazing, uh— all that stuff is on that Just in Health store. So if you’ve not browsed it, now’s a good excuse to do that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Thanks, Evan. Thanks for the plug. And then, topically, you can always do like a higher quality Vitamin C serum or high-quality Retinol or Vitamin A serum with antioxidants. That’ll always be good topically as well.

Evan Brand: Yep. Good advice. Uh— Let’s go over here to uh— Juan. He was asking, “A Glutathione injection, is it great in an IV?”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh— IV, I think is great if it’s— if it— if you have a really acute exposure. The problem is most people can’t afford or do an IV daily. So, I think an IV, acutely, is a good situation, uhm— but daily, it may not be the best. So you get like a Liposomal Glutathione like this, and then you just give it a little squirt a couple times a day if you want that.

Evan Brand: That’s far smarter. You don’t need an IV. I think an IV is unnecessary because of the Liposomal technologies.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeaah. Liposomal technology has really helped. Now, if you get an acute issue, that’s fine. Like if you’re sick or your kid drops a  th— you know— a Mercury-based thermometer kind of thing, right? That’s— You know, for an acute thing, I’m— I’m okay with it, but in general, you want something that you can use daily.

Evan Brand: Yeah. I agree.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And then, uh— Charlie writes in, “What’s the difference between Enzyme Synergy and Digest Synergy?” Uhm— Digest Synergy, basically has some different types of acids and a little bit of Pepsin. It— It’s lower on the HCl and has a little bit of enzymes. The Enzyme Synergy’s pure enzyme. So, typically in my line, I use Enzyme Synergy and HCl Supreme together because I get a high dose of HCl and a high dose of enzymes. So if I have digestive issues, I can more therapeutically hit that. Digest Synergy kind of consolidates two into one so it’s lower on the enzymes and it’s lower on the HCl, but for most people that don’t have an active digestive issue, it’s enough. So it’s basically just consolidating the two together. People that don’t have core or very minor digestive issues.

Evan Brand: Yup. Good. Good. Good, good.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: Both great products. So here’ another one from uh— Juan, “I took Lamisil. It worked great for my fingernail, fungus and toenail fungus. How can I detoxify my liver from the medication? I tried other things like T3, Oil Oregano, oil, and nothing worked.” Well, first, uh— I mean, you give me your two cents here, Dr. J, but I would say, you got to get tested. I mean, you’ve got to take a look at your liver. If you’re concerned, and you want to detoxify, why don’t you look at your AST. Look at your ALT. Look at your GGT. See if there’s anything like, actually manifesting…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm—

Evan Brand: …before you go down some like liver detox program. You might not need that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I think that’s great. And then, if you’re really having a hard t— You said, “I took Lamisil. It worked great on your fingernail fungus and toenail fungus.” So you’re saying— I sounds like the toenail fungus and all that stuff’s better. So, ideally, if you’re gonna take that stuff, you should be on Glutathione uhm— and/or like milk thistle and liver tonifying support. So, like in my line, it’d be Liver Supreme and Detox Aminos, and you can even add in extra liposomal Glutathione along with it while you’re doing it. So you typically want to do it while doing it because— I mean, what’s the half-life on that stuff? It can’t be that long. So, it’s probably out of your system already. So, you just want to build back your system up to make sure it’s fine. That probably iis fine. It’s unless you use it for a incredibly long time. So I wouldn’t worry about it, but better to do it while you’re actually doing the treatment.

Evan Brand: Yup. Yup, well said. Let’s go over here. Uh— Don’t know who this is. Kind of weird name. Uh— “Small amounts of Calcium citrate a meal’s okay with kidney stones?”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, with uhm— kidney stones, you’re typically gonna be doing more Magnesium— more Magnesium with kidney stones ‘cause a lot of the kidney stones are oxalate-based. So Magnesium tends to be good, and then also Potassium. I don’t think you want to be doing Calcium citrate. Let me see. I think the citric acid may—

Evan Brand: I don’t think you want Calcium, period. Nora Gedgaudas, a mutual friend of ours, has a great article on Calcium. You really just don’t need Calcium supplementation uh— hardly, ever. There’s very rare situations where you will need that.  

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. So, basically, Calcium citrate does reduce the risk of oxalate deposition in the kidneys. So does the Potassium. So does Magnesium. I just rather be using Magnesium and Potassium personally. Uh— it’s harder to get those minerals, nd they have more enzymatic roles than Calcium. So I wouldn’t worry. I would use the Potassium and Magnesium over the Calcium, personally.

Evan Brand: Yup. Yup. Let’s keep going here.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I had a large in my back. It fell off after Keto and fasting. Totally makes sense. That’s all about Insulin, right?

Evan Brand: That’s cool.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup. Makes a lot of sense. Seen that before.

Evan Brand: Here’s Tom. I’ll read this one for you. “Vitamin D, trying to optimize absorption one meal a day in the evening. Should I take Vitamin D on an empty stomach or with the meal in the evening and risk melatonin interference? Any suggestions?”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I mean, I would just try to do it in the morning because it makes sense. Vitamin D is typically gonna happen when the Sun’s up, not when the Sun’s down so try to time it in the morning. If you forget, as long as you can take it, and it’s not gonna mess up your sleep and you can relax and wind down, I think it’s fine. A lot of my uhm— Vitamin D’s gonna be at a beta MCT Oil, so take it with a meal.

Evan Brand: Yep. Sounds good. Keep going here. Anita, “Can you talk about the best time to take probiotics, Vitamin D, Vitamin C, Biotin, Zinc? Is it too much to take all together with a meal?” The answer is no. You can take all of that together. The main issue is standing here. So first, I’ll have my two cents. You need to get…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: …your Ferritin look there. So, I’d get a blood panel run to look for Anemias ‘cause you can take these magic— magical mira— miracle supplements like Biotin, which every woman under the sun is taking now, and it might not resolve your hair uh— thinning issue. So get the blood work done. Investigate, first of all, and then, in terms of probiotics, we always recommend that you do those on an empty stomach or maybe around bedtime, because then you’re not competing with stomach acid. So, the probiotic can kind of do its job on its own. Vitamin D, do it with a meal ‘cause it’s fat-soluble. Vitamin C, recommended in the morning ‘cause it can help stimulate the adrenals a little bit. Zinc, I don’t think it matters.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I would just say, anything mineral or amino acid-wise, do it with the food and I’m fine with it. Probiotics, empty stomach, unless, let’s say, acid resistance strain like Omega Support, that can be done with food.

Evan Brand: Yup. Yup. Uh— Let’s go over to Oliver here. Would drinking Water Kefir with mears— meals help or hinder digestion as regular water would?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhm— I would just say, it probably would help ‘cause a lot of the Kefir uhm— tends to have like a lot of acids in it, like glucuronic acid or a lot of uhm— various acid from the fermentation process. And that may be helpful with the digestion, so I would just say, see how you feel. How do you feel when you have that with the fo— with meals. Do you feel bloated or gassy, or do you feel better. Uhm— So I would give it a try and see how you do. I— I will do my ow— one exception to drinking water with food is uhm— Well, number one, the healthier you are, the more you can do it, right? I would still would do it sometimes, like I ate 30 minutes ago. I’m drinking a little I’m sipping on a little bit of water. I’m not downing it, right? But I always try to drink five to ten minutes before food. But in general, uhm— a good rule of thumb is, if you’re burping a lot and you’re smelling the food, ann your burps right after a meal, you drank too much water. Right?

Evan Brand: Yeah

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s a pretty good rule of thumb. And also, do you feel undigested? But when your digestion is more compromised, you got to be by the book. When your digestion is less compromised, you can have a little bit more uh— latitude in what you do. But as long as you feel good, you’re okay.

Evan Brand: Yup. Let’s keep going here. What’s your time? I know we got— How many minutes more do you have like?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We got five more minutes.

Evan Brand: Okay. Uh— Here’s a question from uh— Charlie. Can you just do the H. pylori part of the diagnost— diagnostic solutions test? The GI Map is too expensive. Charlie, I don’t know if you can do it on the GI Map. I know you can with BioHealth. You can do just an H. pylori antigen. However, I would hardly not recommend you do that because if you’re gonna spend money, period, to get any testing done— you know, whether it’s Dr. J or my protocol, our protocols are very importantly based on having a full picture. So imagine like trying to estimate what your— what a puzzle is just by looking. What’s that analogy where you look at the tail of something and you’re like you have no idea there’s an elephant in the room ‘cause all you saw was the tail.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Yeah. It’s basically you’re walking in around— you’re walking in there blind, or you’re just each person stealing the part…

Evan Brand: Oh, yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …of the elephant trying to guess what it is, right? And, there’s also an assumption too. The assumption is, “Oh, I treated the H. pylori— or I treated the other parasites. I only had the H. pylori. Therefore, I only want to look at that.” And a lot of times, you may have other infections that come back on the retest ‘cause these infections were barred in deeper into the gut lining. So you want to rule that out.

Evan Brand: Well, use me as an example.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: I— I had Crypto. I had Giardia. We came up with the protocol and guess what? On the retest, the parasites were gone and H. pylori showed up. So then I had to do a second protocol to kill H. pylori ‘cause it was barely in.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. Now, some people like ninety or a hundred percent of their symptoms go away. Okay. Fine. You know, you’re feeling amazing. You only want to test for one thing. Money’s tight, fine. But, if not, I will always retest the whole thing, just to be in the safe side.

Evan Brand: Okay. Okay. Yup. I would agree. If so, how much is it? Uh— Pricing varies. Pricing changes.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. You can go to my site, GI Map test cash is 3.99 and then, we provide the superbill codes so you can always submit it with insurance and you can also use uhm— your HSA of Flex Spending too.

Evan Brand: Yup. Yup. Uh— Let’s see here. Gabe, “Uh— I like to make my 7-year old smoothies, which he enjoys (he does look a bit underweight) Is it okay to add a bit of your guys’ Collagen…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Evan Brand: …and protein pow— Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm— [crosstalk] Of course, without a doubt.

Evan Brand: Super high-quality. Uh— “Iron.” This is a question from Michelle, “Iron-68, Ferritin-51 after a high-dose Vitamin C IV, which resulted in oxalates everywhere. It caused hair loss too. Trying to recover. All those levels suboptimal? I feel oxalates were chelating minerals.”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I don’t know. Those le— Those levels are good.

Evan Brand: Yeah. I think so.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Again, I like to see Iron saturation in your— in your UIBC and TIBC, but overall, those look good.

Evan Brand: Yep. Uh— Mike, “I got my Viome Test in 23andme Test done. Just wondering which other labs I should run? (many health symptoms)” Mike, you got to get an adrenal test run uh— Justin and I would point you towards the Dutch, which is a urine or do the…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Evan Brand: …BioHealth #201 CAR…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep.

Evan Brand: …Adrenal panel. And also, we would recommend you would get the GI Map. The Viome Test sounds sexy and the marketing is great but the read out is terrible and not very clinically usable this time, so we still would highly recommend you get a GI Map in Organic acids uh— test done, which is urine.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I’m gonna go uhm— I’m gonna go have Steven Berry on my show. Uh— He use the one on the inventors of this test. I think it goes Naveen something. Uugh! I forget his name, but he created the Viome test. I saw him at a conference. He’s like a multi-billionaire Indian dude. Really…

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …really smart guy. But I mean, they’re just on his Viome test. They’re just recommending foods to put there like your gut bacteria back in the balance. And it’s like— It’s like sweet potato, Avocado, Romaine lettuce. It’s like really like is that gonna be the key? ‘Cause there’s always people that I’m already seeing. They’re already eating a really good Paleo template where they’re getting a variety of those kinds of foods are ready.

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhm— I just don’t— I— I’m just really underwhelmed by that intel. [crosstalk] And the biggest issue I see is, you know, you got to get rid of the infections that may be present, that may be driving the Malabsorption. So, I think it can be helpful but I would not put all your stock in it.

Evan Brand: Yep, right. Just a couple more then we’ll wrap up here.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: Josh, “Can long-term Ox bile cause problems? I’m having less bloating with eating fat but much more constipation than some nausea.” I’m guessing he means while taking Ox bile.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. So, I want to know. Are you taking Hydrochloric acid and enzymes with it? I want to make sure that’s dialed in. I want to make sure that you actually got to the root cause of your low bile issues. So, were you having a lot of gallbladder issues, or are you having a lot of floaters? If you were and that helped, that’s a good sign. You can always taper off the bile a little bit and see if that helps. But make sure the HCl and enzymes are there, and then also make sure that you really fully address the gut issues ‘cause sometimes parasites like Giardia and stuff can kind of cause bile issues, so can SIBO. So I’d want to make sure all of the root issues are addressed but all the other digestive secretions are also supported as well.

Evan Brand: Yeah, well said. Uh— Digestive supplements are great but there’s a reason you’re having to use those to mitigate symptoms. So there’s probably something under the hood. Uh, Shanice, uh— “Which herbs are best to treat H. pylori?” There’s a ton. We use many different ones.Dr. J’s got a whole line that he uses for H. pylori. I’ve got a whole line that I use for H. pylori. So, it depends because if it’s just H. pylori by itself, which is pretty rare, usually there’s uh— other bacterial overgrowth, we may switch up the herbs a bit. So—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Bingo!

Evan Brand: Uh— I want to see. Don’t think we could just give you a list and then, you throw it together and have success. You need to get tested.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. But in general, like Mastika’s gonna be uh— one that’s used for a while. I like Clove. I like Berberines. In my line, it’s like GI Clear 2. It’s my H. pylori killer. But you really want to get treated ‘cause most people very rarely just had H. pylori so you don’t want to fall for that.

Evan Brand: The domestic gum, yeah, that is one thing you could—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: …you could throw at it and it could definitely help mitigate it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Mastic gum has adaptogenic qualities too so it is a very safe herb too.

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep. Absolutely.

Evan Brand: Yeah. “There is Candida too,” she says, so yeah. That— That’s very common.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly! So you want to combine that. And then Josh writes in, “No floaters but uh— no poor Steatocrit on my GI Map.

Evan Brand: Good.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So that’s a good sign. So uh— I don’t know why you’re pushing uhm— bile salts the, if that’s the case, you know, therapeutically. I’d only push bile salts if I saw uh— floaters or if I saw high Steatocrit on my stool. If not, I push more enzymes and Hydrochloric acid because the Hydrochloric acid’s really important because if you have low Hydrochloric acid, that’s gonna be the stimulator to stimulate Cholecystokinin, which is this hormone that’s released in the small intestine  that stimulates the gallbladder to contract. So I’m more concerned about the Hydrochloric acid because that gets the gallbladder moving.

Evan Brand: Yep. I just want to add two more cents to the question…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: …form Shanice about the H. pylori. And then, she said that, “Yes. There also is Candida.” Uh— when you lower stomach acid levels, that low stomach acid causes these foods to rot in putrefying the gut…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: …which generally does in a Candida Overgrowth. So it’s very common. I’d say, 90+ percent of the time, we see Candida and H. pylori together.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes! One hundred percent.

Evan Brand: Uh— last question then we got to roll. Uh—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: Cha— Charlie says Dr.J have you killed H. pylori with your patients in 30 days using GI Clear 4?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhm— I would never do it by itself, but if I were to do a minimalist protocol, I would do at least GI Clear 4 and 2, or typically, 1, 2 and 4. One (1), 2, and 4, or if there’s Yeast along with it, we’ll do 1, 2 and 5. So, it just depends on what other stuff is going on, but 2 has to be in there. And if there’s no Candida, I would probably throw a 4 in there with it ‘cause it’s very high in Berberine and Goldenseal.

Evan Brand: And— And just to also add ‘cause I know how you work. Uh— You’re likely gonna be doing some type of adrenal support, potentially, some binders [crosstalk] or detox for it too. So—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Bingo.

Evan Brand: Uh— We— We can’t just come in and kill, kill, kill! Uh— We got to support the other body systems or you won’t make it through the protocol.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I mean, most people, you know, they’re used to like, “Oh! I have chapped toe. It’s antibiotics.” Or, “Oh, hey! I get an STD. Here’s— Here’s antibiotics. Here’s a Ziprac.” Right? So most people are like, they find something. They want to kill it right away. But with these chronic infections, it’s a little bit different of a mindset.

Evan Brand: Yup. Yup. Let’s wrap up if you’re ready.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And then, hold on. One last thing, “Organic Buckwheat Crisp because of bre—” Uh— So, yeah. Buckwheat is more of a root, so it tends to be okay. But if you’re Gluten-sensitive, definitely cut it out for a month. But that could be something you try to add back in. And then, Ali Mo writes in, “Is DiatomaceA, D.A., okay for humans?” Yeah. D.E.— .D.A. is based— or D.E. is basically uhm— just super, super high in Silica. How it works is basically is it dehydrates the exoskeleton on the bugs, and they basically die.

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s how it works.

Evan Brand: M— My uh— My— I just saw that coming— come through about the Buckwheat. My comment would be that it is a cross-reactive food. So—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Can cross-react.

Evan Brand: Uh— Your body can still think that it’s Gluten and could still trigger an autoimmune issue or something. Or if you ar— already have autoimmunity, you probably need to step away from buckwheat and its— and the other pseudograins.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. At least an AIP Protocol for uh— a month, and then you can add it back in. Don’t make it a staple, but if you want to have it a couple of times a week, uh— I’m okay with it. Just make sure it’s— you know, your issues are under control and you add it back in methodically.

Evan Brand: Yeah. And if your gut is healthy, you might be able to get away with it. If your gut’s not healthy, you may have a flare of some sort. You just have to pay attention.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool. Hey, I like that picture of the bird over your right shoulder there.

Evan Brand: Oh, thanks, man. Yeah. I took that picture. Let’s say uh— female cardinal.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Whoaf! Beautiful!

Evan Brand: I got a bunch of uh— whenever you come over to my house, I’ve got a bunch of canvasses everywhere of pictures I’ve taken of different birds and stuff over the years.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and you recommended that bird idea. Bright…

Evan Brand: [crosstalk] Oh! You’ve got birds in?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: [crosstalk] …a lot of kind of birds.

Evan Brand: Oh, yeah. I was playing actually. I heard a pileated woodpecker, which is the largest woodpecker in North America, the other day, about this tall. I heard him calling so I got out the bird app and I played the song— his song. And then, he flew in to go see who is singing. And, he flew right over my head.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, my gosh! That is cool, man. Yeah, the older I get, I kind of get into things like that. Like when I was younger, I was like, “Who cares?” But now, I’m like, “Oh! That’s cool.” [crosstalk] It’s cool watching birds.

Evan Brand: I love watching birds. I love birds, trees. Yeah, I love it all.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Awesome, man. Oh, hey! Today was a great chat. Appreciate it. We’ll be back next week, my man.

Evan Brand: Yeah. Tell— Uh— Tell people about the— the links.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, yeah. So, uh— click below for the Thyroid Summit, And also, Evan’s got his summit going on right now, [emphasis], to get signed up for Evan’s [crosstalk] Candida summit.

Evan Brand: I got to go check out. Go check out the Candida Summit ‘cause we had a couple people in here talking about gut issues. There’s 30 talks in this Candida Summit. It launches July 9th, so go register. Use Justin’s link. Go register. It’s free. Then, you can choose to buy the talks and support the mission. Uh— It’s gonna be a great— great event. It’s all online. Coming up in what? Two or three weeks? So—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And we need to get you a link for your— for my— for the summit for me, so then you can get some credit there.

Evan Brand: For sure.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Awesome, man. Hey! Great chat with you brother. Everyone, give us a thumbs up. Give us a share. Smash the like button. Subscribe. We appreciate you guys, uhm— tuning in. Have a great day. Bye.

Evan Brand: Bye.



“Hyperinsulinemia and Moles”….0…1.1.64.psy-ab..7.3.1181…0j0i22i30k1.0.grg19B8Fk0Y

Viome a Breakthrough in Gut Microbiome Testing with Naveen Jain Viome Founder Metatranscriptome

Micro-nutrients, Vitamins and Minerals Deficiency – Podcast #33

Dr. Justin Marchegiani gets into an engaging and informative discussion with Baris Harvey about minerals and mineral deficiency and how to test for minerals. Get to know about magnesium and selenium deficiency, as well as the importance of selenium to T4 and T3 conversion and activating thyroid hormone. Listen to the podcast and learn about the Jod-Basedow effect versus Wolff–Chaikoff effect. You can also find out about the different types of iron and what you should be taking depending on your health issues.  They also tackle interesting issues like how our soils have become depleted by our conventional agricultural system.
micro-nutrient deficiency

In general, this interview discusses about the overview of the things that might be helpful when it comes to supplementation and where you can get your nutrients and minerals from. Towards the end of the podcast, you can also discover the general tests you can do to look at nutrient levels across the board.

In this episode, topics include:

13:07   Common mineral deficiencies

29:57   Proper amount of zinc

35:55   Copper deficiency or excess and the functions of copper

39:00   Iron’s role in health, its function and deficiencies

47:10   Potassium and its roles








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Baris Harvey:  Welcome again to another awesome episode of Beyond Wellness Radio.  Before I get into today’s show, I wanna tell you guys a little bit about the newsletter.  Go to and hit the button that says Newsletter Sign Up.  By doing this you will never miss out on an episode.  Be the first one to hear it as it is sent to your inbox each week.  You want even more?  Click on Just In Health.  It links directly to Justin’s–Dr. Justin’s page and you get direct access to him.

Are you having any thyroid issues?  We’ve got your back.  Hit the link that says Fix Your Thyroid and by doing so and signing up to the newsletter, you get a video series that tells you exactly how to do just that, fix your thyroid.  Also you can have direct contact to me when you go to Beyond Wellness Radio site and click the link above.  I’ll leave you guys to go over and check that out.

So how’s it going, Dr. Justin?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Baris, it’s going great today, man.  Very good day, looking forward to the weekend.

Baris Harvey:  Oh yeah, definitely.  It’s always–always great to have–have these Friday mornings, conversations about health and nutrition and kinda get the day started right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Absolutely, man!  And I’m gonna already jump the boat because I already know your question.  What did I have this morning?

Baris Harvey:  Oh, yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Today’s is–

Baris Harvey:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Today’s an intermittent fast.  So not–not too much today.  Just took some probiotics and little bit of coffee and butter and MCT, so I’m just tapping into my fat reserves right now and we’re gonna have some nice lunch so I got some kale salad with some olive oil and ginger vinaigrettes, and I’ll have probably some chicken thighs that are sautéed in cumin and bacon with the skin on.  So I am super stoked.  I actually posted the meal last night on Instagram.  So if you wanna see what it looks like, it’s pretty darn good.  @Justinhealth on Instagram.

Baris Harvey:  Oh, yeah, definitely.  Can’t go wrong with chicken thigh, it’s funny because like–I mean, it–everything about chicken is just delicious, but I mean chicken thighs are really underrated like that–they’re really good dark meat, so that’s one of my–and so easy to make, too.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Oh, and they’re cheaper.  Dude, they’re cheaper.

Baris Harvey:  Yeah.  Cheaper.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:   Cheaper than regular chicken.  Like when I was like a poor doctoral student, right?  I would go to Whole Foods and the secret was you get the family pack, you’d order 3 lbs or more, they knock off I think 10% per pound, and I keep the skin on because you get the extra nutrients from the skin.  I keep the bone in–

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Because the bone would act–give you that extra little bit of flavor.

Baris Harvey:  Yeah, and the juiciness, yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And it was like $3 a pound and I’m a poor college student at that time and I’m eating like super clean and organic and when I have patients now, they’re like, “Oh, I don’t have the money for to eat this good.”  I’m like, “Oh, no.  You do.  Believe me.  This is how I did it.”  And I get a first-hand experience.

Baris Harvey:  Yeah, exactly.  That’s exactly what I did, too.  It’s like, “Oh, I don’t have enough money for cooking oil.  Well, luckily I have the skin on, so–.”  Yeah.  Everything just like that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Exactly.

Baris Harvey:   So I’m doing the same thing this morning but later I’m gonna have some–some tikka masala which is a–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Oh yeah?

Baris Harvey:  Like a–like an Indian spicy tomato curry, so–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.

Baris Harvey:  Yeah, I did–I just saw this video last night on YouTube of a–I think it was a French guy cooking, it’s–what’s his name–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Baris Harvey:  So I can give a shout out to that guy and his tikka masala that he made was–was really good.  So anytime you–you make like–like Indian food, you–you get to–you get to play with a spice for like a lot and that’s–that’s what I love.  It’s like super flavorful food.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Love it, man.  Absolutely love it.

Baris Harvey:  Yeah, so today in this episode we’re gonna be talking about minerals and mineral deficiency and how to test for minerals because oftentimes we hear, you know, you gotta take your multivitamin, multimineral thing, you know, your–your supplement.  But people don’t really talk much about what you’re getting in your minerals or what minerals that you need.  I think often we hear a lot about calcium but that’s about it.  And the main thing we just know, “Hey, make sure you drink your milk to get your calcium,” but besides that you don’t hear too much about magnesium or your selenium or your iodine, or–or all these other minerals and–and what do they do for us?  And–and you think someone who focuses on gardening or farming, they know a lot about minerals because that’s–that’s kinda what your food eats, right?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Baris Harvey:  And depending on where it comes from, so they might have a certain different–a different balance.  So we’re gonna go ahead and today and we kinda talk about minerals and get–and go through it all.  So the first question that I would wanna ask you and I think that our listeners might be thinking of this as like, it’s like, “What is a mineral and like why do we need it?  What’s the difference between mineral and vitamin?”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Great question.  So both vitamins and minerals and water for instance, these are all micronutrients.  So we have our macronutrients which are like our proteins, fats, and carbs and this is kinda where, you know, calories come from because macronutrients are your protein, fat, and carbs, right?  There’s gonna be 4 calories per gram of carbohydrate, 4 calories per gram of protein, and then 8-9 grams or calories per gram of fat.  So the whole calorie model is, oh, well–that’s it, more calories so avoid it, right?  That’s kinda that thinking and that’s really looking at macronutrients.  The problem is we’re not looking at the micronutrients.  So macronutrients are important and in a Paleo diet or anti-inflammatory diet, we can actually be macronutrient agnostic.  Meaning the ratios of proteins, fats to carbohydrates can be tweaked up and down based upon your needs, right?  If you’re a CrossFit athlete or a triathlon, yeah, you’re gonna need higher levels of carbohydrate.  But on the same standpoint, if you have metabolic syndrome and you’re coming into a Paleo diet or a primal diet, we may have to really ramp those carbohydrates much lower.  We may need to rely more on just non-starchy vegetables before we touch any other carbohydrates, and then we’re really being higher in fat and moderately in protein depending on where we’re at, and again, that approach we’re really looking at the quality of these macronutrients.  So, hormone-free, antibiotic, organic, like no pesticides, no chemicals.  So that’s kinda like the macronutrient-end.  I know I’m kinda like side-stepping your question a little bit but I’m kinda giving it a little foundation.

Baris Harvey:  Yeah, exactly.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So macro–

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, so macro is like protein, fats, carbs, but we also wanna make sure there’s quality and cleanliness in those carbs, right?  Not the pesticides, not the chemicals, not the hormones.  Now on that note, underneath we have our micro.  We have our vitamins, minerals, and good quality water.  So on that standpoint, vitamins and minerals are gonna be activators.  So Paul Chek always had this great analogy.  I loved it because it really resonated.  Vitamins and minerals are like nails in the wood.  So the wood–

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Is gonna be like the macronutrients.  So if we have like rotting wood and we’re putting golden nails into rotten wood, meaning we’re eating crappy macronutrients with poor quality but we’re talking all these expensive nutrients and vitamins and minerals.  The vitamins and minerals are alike golden nails and the rotten wood are like the macronutrients.  So you can see, right?  Golden nails–

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And rotten wood is not gonna get the job done, so we wanna make sure the macronutrients stand on top of everything and then once we get down to the micronutrients–once we get down to the micronutrients, that’s where the vitamins and minerals matter because they’re activators.  They’re gonna help solidify the foundation on the macronutrients.  I’ll give you just a minute there to kinda break that down and ask any follow ups there, Baris.

Baris Harvey:  Oh, yeah.  This is an easy break.  It’s basically, you can’t eat McDonald’s and take an expensive pill–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.

Baris Harvey:  To make everything work, right?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Thank you.

Baris Harvey:  So just sayin, “Hey, y’all.”  And–and that’s often what a lot of the researches says, “Well, vitamin supplements are beneficial,” sometimes because people think that they can eat like crap or have a bad lifestyle, and you said like, “Oh, okay, well, it’s okay, I can do that because I take a multivitamin, so I don’t need to eat right.”  We have–so that’s–that sometimes messes things up so–for people make sure you know that that’s–that’s not how it works.  You wanna make sure that you’re eating the right foods first, and then–and isn’t it the same way that you do it in your practice as well?  Like some people they wanna get tested for their–their nutrients and you wanna make sure that you’re–they’re eating the right diet because if they first get tested before like everything’s gonna be off and you–and you kinda already know that, right?  Then they start to change their diet and then you see like, “Okay, what’s still missing after you get the food right?”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Exactly.  Exactly.

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  That totally makes sense.  And here’s the thing, right?  I love this–this little slogan.  I saw it on Facebook and I just saved it.  It’s such a great slogan.  If you wanna look like a million bucks, you can’t eat from the Dollar Menu.

Baris Harvey:  Embarrassing–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  It really–it really rings true.  And supplements are important these days just because of the fact that our soils have become depleted by our conventional agricultural system.  So the quality of the minerals and vitamins in a certain food is gonna be dependent upon the soil and if that soil has been eroded by lack of organic farming or excessive fertilizers especially with NPK fertilizers, this can disrupt the topsoil.  This can disrupt the soil quality itself and we need healthy soil, healthy minerals, healthy microbiotic in the soil for the–for the nutrients to then produce adequate vitamins and minerals in the grass and the vegetables, right?  Which again meats, the animals, the cows.  They’re gonna eat the grass, right?  They’re gonna–the chickens are gonna eat the bugs, right?  So we need healthy vegetation so our animals become nutrient replete as well.

Baris Harvey:  Yeah, so we need good, good minerals in our soil for our–our animals so they can be healthy but also for us, right?  So that when we eat our spinach, it’s supposed to be loaded with these minerals that we’re like–that we’re actually getting like I don’t wanna say, “Oh, eat spinach, it’s gonna have a lot of magnesium,” and then you go to a farm that has a bunch of pesticides sprayed on them, so it doesn’t actually have what it’s supposed to have.  So then you’re just like chewing on like just a bunch of cellulose and nothing else.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Exactly. Exactly.

Baris Harvey:  So, it’s–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And it’s really important.

Baris Harvey:  Organic is important.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Exactly, and there’s this Senate report.  It’s called Senate Document #264.  This is a really interesting Senate Document.  Basically what it show was–it’s a document that came out in 1936 and it was basically done by the government and what they found was that there was significant nutrient depletion, so there’s a one summary of it, right?  “The alarming fact is that foods, fruits, vegetables, and grains are now being raised on millions on acre of land that no longer contain enough certain needed nutrients, and are starving us no matter how much we eat of them.”  And that comes from the US Senate Document #264.  So feel free and Google that.  Now this is important.  This is why we need organic farming but even organic farming may not be enough because of the damage to our soil.  So for instance, the find that soil that’s depleted in manganese, the plants that then grow in that soil will have 50% less Vitamin C.  This is important, right?

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  We’re talking micronutrients now, vitamins and minerals, that if the soil is disrupted, even if we’re eating organic; if that organic food is grown in a depleted soil, that product, that animal, that plant may not have the full spectrum of nutrients that we want.  So we wanna make sure we’re trying to get organic farming standards because organic farming means that there’s no pesticides or chemicals used for 3 years in that soil.  There’s typically crop rotation, we’re not depleting soil, and then there’s idea of like putting certain things back into the soil whether its humus or whether it’s whatever type of organic farming techniques there are to help replete the soil so the minerals and the topsoil can then be nutrient dense and really help utilize the minerals and feed them to the plants so we have higher vitamins and minerals in our food.  So that’s always the foundation, is making sure we’re eating organic nutrient-dense food.  That’s first and then second would be taking highly–high quality absorbable nutrient-dense or a micronutrient-dense vitamin and mineral support to kinda fill in the gaps of what we’re missing just based on our diet.

Baris Harvey:  What would you say would be some of the more common mineral deficiencies?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So one of the biggest ones out there is gonna be magnesium deficiency.

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  There’s a couple of reasons why, and this is–you can just go on PubMed and Google magnesium deficiency.  This is kind of–this isn’t even controversial.  Even in the mainstream, this is–there are studies in the 70s and 80s talking about this stuff.

Baris Harvey:  Yeah and it’s still going on.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, it’s still going on.  Basically, magnesium, one is used for over 300 different enzymatic systems or processes in the body.  So there’s a lot of reasons why we need magnesium.  That’s step one.  Step two is if we eat refined sugar, magnesium’s also needed for blood sugar or sugar metabolism.  So if we’re eating a lot of refined sugar, hey, I mean, have you looked at how our sugar consumptions increased over the last 100 years, right?  In 1900, 4 lbs per year; today, 140 lbs per year, right?  That’s like pretty insane how much we’ve increased, you know, about 40 times.  So that’s a lot of extra refined carbohydrate that’s gonna cause us to go through our sugar reserves faster.  That’s one.

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Number two, we’re living more stressed, right?  Magnesium is a stress buffer.  It is a natural beta blocker.  It is there to help relax us and chill us out.

Baris Harvey:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  That’s why people use Natural Calm at night to kinda wind down, right?

Baris Harvey:  Exactly.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So magnesium’s important to wind down.  So if we’re stressed out, we’re eating a whole bunch of refined sugar, we’re automatically gonna be setting ourselves up for magnesium deficiency issues.

Baris Harvey:  Yeah, definitely.  And–and you know what else it helps with?  Is muscle cramps and like pushing and all that stuff if you’re having, you know, problems after your workout or you wake up in the middle of the night and having cramps, like that’s a–that’s a key sign that you might be deficient in this essential mineral, and you know, you need this for–for–like you mentioned, so many different processes but especially when it comes to the, you know, neuromuscular activity, right?  This is one of the common things that I would tell people.  I would tell people when they would come into, you know, the natural food store.  You know, what are–what are some of the things that, you know, that are–are definite that we–we see even western medicine taking a closer look at, and magnesium was–was one of those few things that if you’re having like a heart attack, they might pump some magnesium into your body to regulate normal heart rhythm.  You know what I mean?  So magnesium is definitely one of those things that you want to–that you wanna take in and your body does a good job regulating it.  That if you taken too much, you’re body has a good–that there’s a good sign, and I think you might know what it is if you–if you’re taking in a little excess.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, exactly.  Exactly, so magnesium’s one of those things you take too much, you’re gonna have loose stools.

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So that’s one of those extra minerals that I would–I would get looked at.

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  We can just do a red blood cell magnesium.  Now not your magnesium serum, right?  Because–

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  When we do a blood test, we’ll see magnesium on there, and that’s typically your magnesium serum.  That’s just looking at what’s in the blood.  Red blood cell magnesium is actually look at what’s actually in the cell.

Baris Harvey:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So in the blood is kinda like you’re in the ocean and there’s a like whole bunch of magnesium like floating around you, right?

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Red blood cell magnesium is actually what’s inside of you.  If you’re the cell and the water is the blood, right?  The magnesium in the water is the magnesium serum.  The red blood cell magnesium is actually what’s inside of you at the time.

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So that’s a better marker for red blood cell magnesium and I like to see it in the upper 5’s, 5.8, 5.6, 5.7.  The top 50% is a really good range to be at for magnesium.

Baris Harvey:  Yeah, definitely.  So–and like we mentioned before, it’s one of those great, great, great minerals.  I mean, you can also do like trans–transdermal to make sure that you’re having enough and make sure that you’re–you’re eating as many leafy greens as possible to get–to get your magnesium through–through food first, but you know, you’re–because of what we’re–done to our soils you might need some supplementation as well. So if you want normal heart rhythm and nerve transportation, bone growth, body temperature, I mean, you name it, testosterone boost, calcium absorption, like make sure you’re got your magnesium in check.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Exactly.  And again, you can go on Google Scholar and you can jump pump some of these things in there–magnesium deficiency, like there’s lots of studies on there.  And there’s some people that talk about the Senate Document that I just mentioned, it being kinda debunked, but again there’s lots of studies individually on all of these different nutrients that show deficiencies, like magnesium deficiency it can cause congestive heart failure.  Oh my gosh, like that’s one of the top causes of death today.  What if–what if magnesium could help that person, it may not be the–

Baris Harvey:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Cure because that person’s probably low on Vitamin D, has insulin resistance, maybe as sedentary but maybe that magnesium in conjunction with a full holistic program may be helpful outside of just statins and blood pressure medications, right?

Baris Harvey:  Yeah, exactly.  Definitely.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So also take a look at the research of Dr. Bruce Ames out of UC Berkeley.  He has done lots of research on some of these micronutrients.  I had the ability to speak on the same stage as him last year over at the Smart Life Forum at the Silicon Valley Health Institute.  He’s got a lot of interesting information on a lot of these different nutrient deficiencies.  Now, shifting from magnesium, I like to shift to selenium deficiency next.  You ready for that, Baris?

Baris Harvey:  Oh, yeah, let’s go selenium.  That’s–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So selenium.

Baris Harvey:  That’s one that a lot of people don’t know about, so let–let everybody, I just want to–before you go into it, make sure that you’re paying attention because a lot of people–this is one those sneaky ones that people aren’t really paying attention to.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, selenium’s one of these really important nutrients.  It’s actually a precursor to glutathione.  It helps with glutathione.  It’s actually a precursor, it kinda gets absorbed with Vitamin E.  Selenium and Vitamin E are like brother and sister, kinda like copper and Vitamin C if you will, so you see selenium and Vitamin E together.  Selenium is of these nutrients that’s really important for gluthathione and detox like I mentioned.  It’s also really important for thyroid hormone health.  When our thyroid gland spits of T4 which is our inactive thyroid hormone, it has to get converted to T3, right?  So T4 is inactive, T3 is active, and part of that conversion process, you need these 5 prime deiodinase enzymes, this deiodinase enzyme, deiodinase means deiodine meaning pulling off iodione, right?

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  T4 stands for tyrosine with 4 molecules of iodine, T3 stands for tyrosine with 3.  So this deiodine means pulling off one iodine and the enzyme that does that is a selenium-based enzyme, so we need that selenium-based enzyme to pull off the iodine so we can activate our thyroid hormone.  So one more time, selenium is important for activating T4 to T3.  If we’re low on selenium, we won’t be able to make that conversion happen.

Baris Harvey:  Yeah, so this would also, I’m guessing, help with if there were any excess iodine exposure possibly.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Oh, love it, Baris.

Baris Harvey:  Right?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I love it.

Baris Harvey:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So, there’s a whole thing out there with iodine being evil, right?  We have Dr. Kharrazian’s camp saying iodine is evil, it causes autoimmune conditions.  We have Dr. Brownstein’s camp that says we need iodine, it’s super important and I kinda walk right in the middle and I say they’re both right.  Now the reason why they’re both right is because there are some people that, yeah, they are in iodine-deficient areas of the world, right?  The goiter belt and they’re–

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Not getting enough iodine, but at the same standpoint if we just go jack their iodine up, that could cause–there’s a couple of different effects.  There’s a–a Jod-Basedow effect and there’s also another effect, I’ll look it up here and just–just a second, where having too much or too little iodine can actually cause an autoimmune type of response.  So really, really important that if we have iodine, one, we also wanna make sure selenium levels are balanced first.  The reason why is the process of iodination where we’re making thyroid hormone, if we don’t have enough selenium, the process of adding in tyrosine and adding in iodine, it spits off hydrogen peroxide and that hydrogen peroxide is very, very inflammatory and can cause your B cells, right?  Your B cells will start infiltrating and start attacking the thyroid tissue, so we really wanna make sure that we have enough selenium because that selenium will actually buffer the hydrogen peroxide and take it and cleave off an oxygen and make it H2O and oxygen.  So we have water and oxygen which is very benign where the hydrogen peroxide is more inflammatory.  Does that make sense?

Baris Harvey:  Yeah, it definitely.  And then, so yeah, that–that just is a great way to put it.  Because a lot of people like to eat at their shoes one side of the other and you have to always just have an open mind and kinda be looking at why–why are they thinking that it’s this way and let’s kinda see their side and see the other way but yeah, definitely.  I can see why, yeah, go ahead, go ahead.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, so again I wanna just touch upon a couple of things, right?  We have the Wolff–Chaikoff effect, right?  That’s where too much iodine can actually cause this in the short-term, right?

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  The Wolff–Chaikoff, right?  Now on the other side of the fence, we have the Jod-Basedow phenomenon in which low thyroid causes an enlarged gland, an enlarged–

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Thyroid gland.  So those who are given too much with go into a hyperthyroid state with Jod-Basedow and people that have the Wolff–Chaikoff effect, there’s too much iodine can cause a hypothyroid state, because the body goes, “Oh, we’ve all this iodine, we don’t wanna make too much thyroid hormone, let’s shut down, we go into a hypo state.”

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And then Jod-Basedow is the opposite where we have super low iodine, the body is ready and geared up to actually make thyroid hormone, when we give it too much we go into a hyper.  So we have Wolff–Chaikoff on the–on the low end and we have Jod-Basedow on the high end.  So we have this really–this interesting balancing act, so we–it’s–it’s very delicate way, you have to go in there and we make sure we give some good micronutrient support in my opinion, working on the adrenals and also working selenium levels, also magnesium and zinc as well, before we even touch iodine.  Because iodine can–we can easily go too high or too low and cause this type of hyper or hypo effect depending on where we’re at without iodine levels.

Baris Harvey:  Yeah, definitely.  So being that, we’re talking about iodine and it being a player in the thyroid.  Have you seen–just because you know, we wanna talk about all these minerals as well–have you also seen that as being something that people might be missing because I know one of the main ways we have it in our–in our food is in iodized salt, right?  And it’s kinda like, everything’s stripped away and we artificially like put it back in because if we didn’t, there would be a lot of problems.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Exactly.

Baris Harvey:  At then so, but at the same times, because I know this, even myself, I’ll put–I’ll salt my food, very vigorously–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Baris Harvey:  And my mom would–my mom would tell me like you don’t have to put that much salt, and I said, “Why not?  I don’t eat processed food, so actually I don’t get enough salt” and like I guess my family has a–I know my dad’s side of the family has a history of high blood pressure and she’s like, “Oh you know like aunt–and you know you’re part African-American like that’s more common,” but I’m like, if anything, and I’ve–I’ve had it tested multiple times, like my blood pressure is usually, if anything on the low end–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Baris Harvey:  And I’m like, “Mom, like, I actually need salt so that way, I don’t get lightheaded when I work out.  I need to conduct electricity.  I need salt.”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Baris Harvey:  So if we’re telling people not to eat salt and one of the main ways we get our iodine is through salt, are we causing people to–to become iodine deficient?  Because unless they’re eating a lot of seafood and like saltwater fish, like I can see that they can possibly be missing out on this essential micronutrient.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, it’s very possible.  There are some studies though showing iodized salt actually being a stimulating factor for autoimmune condition.  There’s some study showing when society has introduced iodized salt, they start having more incidents of autoimmune condition.  So it’s like this double-edged sword.  I mean, you know, do you best to get high quality iodine in your diet–

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Whether it’s fish or you know, high quality seaweed, I think you should just make sure you have a good multi that has the minimum, again the RDA–

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Which is your–the minimum kind of amount that you want.  Dr. Brownstein calls it rat’s drugs in assumption, I love that because basically that’s kinda like the minimum and I think having a 200-250 mcg level of iodine in your multi, it’s just a good baseline, and then trying to get the rest from good high quality food, is a–is a good next step.  Now if we see that you have thyroid issues and we’re not seeing autoimmunity and we’re seeing potentially low-level, lower levels of T4 and such, maybe giving some iodine may be a good next step, and I always give iodine–I give out Lugol’s second generation.  The reason why I give the second generation is because it has higher amounts of Vitamin C in there, selenium, fulvic minerals, and it has some extra B vitamins.  So, and I try to make sure that all of the co-factors are there and I try to make sure we have repleted selenium even before so that if any of these reactions happen, we’re not gonna be having an inflammatory cascade and we also start way on the lower end and taper up and be careful for things like hair loss or palpitations or you know, symptoms that may indicate that we’re having an autoimmune type of episode or a hyper type of response to the thyroid.

Baris Harvey:  Yeah, definitely.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Or even a hypo–or even a hypo–

Baris Harvey:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Like we talked about with the–with the Wolff–Chaikoff.

Baris Harvey:  Yeah, definitely.  And that’s why if you get salt, pink Himalayan salt, Real Salt, and I think there’s like another one, Celtic salt, like go for one of these really good brands so that way you make sure that is not just stripped away sodium chloride and then oh by way, maybe we should add some iodine back to it, like things work–work like a lot of these nutrients and stuff like from Earth have been here a lot longer than us and they know what they’re doing, so when we take out that–that balance, like we cause problems.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, absolutely.  And I think you said it right.  That’s why I’ll use the Himalayan, the Celtic, or the–the Real Salt, just because they haven’t added in extra iodine.  It’s just kinda what’s in the minerals, what’s in the–the ocean salt, or what’s in, you know, for instance, Real Salt, what’s in Redmond–the Redmond salt reserve over in Utah, and you’re not gonna get a super saturation of iodine in that.  I mean, you get it–

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  A couple–a couple dozen micrograms worth, and then if you’re eating good quality eggs, if you’re eating some fish, then you’re good to go.

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  That tend to be a good starting point.  I am concerned there is some–a lot of controversy over what’s happening in Fukushima, you know, there are a lot of people out there that say, “Hey, you know, it’s not really a big deal,” but then when you actually study what’s really happening, yeah, it’s not a big deal because they keep on raising the–the lower safe limits–

Baris Harvey:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So the lower safe limits at this level, we go above it, you know, with–with the radiation and then they just raise the safe lower limit.  Oh, look, it’s no longer a problem.  It’s like yeah, it’s because you got a moving goal post going there.

Baris Harvey:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  It doesn’t take a genius to say.  “Wait, a minute.  Why does this goal post keep on moving?”  So I’m just a little more skeptical at, you know, trying to get your iodine from seaweed sources that may be coming from Japan or anywhere near Fukushima.

Baris Harvey:  Yeah, definitely.  You mentioned Zinc earlier and this is–especially with–with athletes, some of that can easily get depleted or they might not have enough and when it comes to being–being at your best, something that’s super important to have is a proper amount of zinc.  What are, I guess, some of the sources that we can find zinc and what are some of the signs or some of the reasonings why we might be deficient in it in the first place?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Oh, love that question.  So zinc’s one of my favorite minerals.  Zinc is a co-factor for hydrochloric acid–

Baris Harvey:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And it’s also a co-factor for testosterone.

Baris Harvey:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So I love zinc for those reasons because it builds testosterone and it helps your digestion.  So that’s kinda like number one.  So one, if our digestion isn’t good, even if we’re eating nutrient, you know, supportive foods, nutrient-dense foods, we may not get a whole bunch of zinc, because we may not be able to break it down.  But some of our like really Paleo-friendly foods, oysters are gonna be great, you know–

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Grass-fed beef, liver, lamb, venison, any of your animal foods are gonna be super good, dark chocolate, pork, mushroom, sesame seeds, tahini–these are all really good sources of zinc.  So that’s a really good way to maximize to make sure that you’re getting enough is that make sure you’re eating nutrient-dense foods.  And now on that standpoint, if you’re having–if you’re having problems with absorption, we may wanna take about getting some hydrochloric acid on board there, right?

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  To help break down and make sure we could ionize the zinc and on top of that, really simple do a zinc tally test, right?  Zinc chloride–

Baris Harvey:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Really simple you can get it from the Designs for Health and Metagenics, you can now just email and I’ll send some over to you.  And basically how it works is this, really simple, really simple.  You’re gonna take about a tablespoon or about a 5mL shot of zinc sulfate, you’re gonna swallow that zinc and depending on how the zinc tastes will tell you, generally speaking, how you are.  The worse and faster it taste, or I should say, the more–the more unpalatable or the more bitter it taste, the faster and the more bitter it taste means the less you need the zinc.  So better and faster, most deficient.

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Bitter and fast means the most sufficient.  I’ll give you an opportunity to break that down, Baris.

Baris Harvey:  So it’s almost like if you’re putting–putting something in–into like pot, if you–if that spills out really quick, oh, wait, we notice you already have too much but if you just keep pouring, it’s like, oh, nothing’s happening, it tastes just fine like that’s–that’s what it’s like, okay, you’re obviously on empty that’s why you haven’t noticed anything.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yes, and that’s–

Baris Harvey:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  You’re basic zinc chloride, that’s called a zinc tally test and you Google that.  That’s a really good baseline.  There’s actually a couple of studies that have supported. They, you know, they’ve tested like intercellular zinc levels and they correlate it to people doing a zinc tally test and they do find it correlates pretty well.  So it’s a really good initial screening for zinc deficiency.  Zinc also affects your DNA.  We talked about this I think at last podcast with the immune system–zinc affects your immune system but it also affects your–your epigenetics due to zinc fingers, right?  These are these little–thee little, essentially, they’re almost like epigenetic triggers.  They play a role in DNA recognition.

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right?  Which is really–

Baris Harvey:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Really important, they’re like a transcription factor that really helps with activating DNA.

Baris Harvey:  You know, I also thought, too, because often athletes–this is one of the things I see like with–with athletes is being zinc deficient.  If you’re an athlete and you’re sweating a lot, you losing some of these minerals, isn’t it like if you’re excessively sweating, you can–you can lose some zinc to your sweat?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Absolutely.

Baris Harvey:  Like it probably be important for an athlete, especially you know with all the benefits converting, you know, your DHT to like to testosterone and–and all of the other benefits you know, being sick doesn’t help you if you have to work out and now you’re sick.  So helping your immune system healing you from, I know it’s really common to heal from wounds–wounds and protein synthesis and collagen, like this is like, you know, something really important I think all the athletes out there listening to, you should really pay attention to then zinc levels when–absorbing B vitamins like if you’re an athlete and you’re low on zinc, that’s a real low-hanging fruit that you have to make sure that you’re–you’re paying attention to.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Absolutely.  So making sure you have good zinc levels is gonna be important.  Do a zinc tally test.  We’ll talk at the end, there’s some general test you can do to kinda look at nutrient levels across the board.  Some of the best test that I used in my functional medicine practice and just to kinda recap zinc here.  Zinc’s important for testosterone.  It’s important for hydrochloric acid and–and breaking down food, right?  We can’t break down and ionize our minerals, we can’t absorb them.  And it’s also important for our immune function and for DNA, right?  Zinc fingers, they have a–a huge effect at–at binding RNA and in mediating these protein interactions and they’re really important for essentially these DNA specific binding sequences.  So–

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Really important kinda confusing stuff, you don’t have to understand it to get the benefit, just make sure you’re eating zinc nutrient-dense foods, make sure that you’re able to digest it and if you’re concerned make sure you’re taking a high quality zinc supplement and just make sure in general you have a little bit of copper with your zinc supplementation because if you go too high on zinc and no copper, you can actually create a copper deficiency.

Baris Harvey:  Yeah, so you kind of moved right onto the next one.  So speaking of copper, what–and you–you mentioned zinc I know one of the other ones is like anemia, that sometimes is when you’re–when you’re deficient.  Talk about the deficiencies and what are the functions of copper in our body.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  That’s a great one.  I don’t have a ton of information actually on–on copper mainly because people will tend to be low on zinc so you kinda–

Baris Harvey:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Have this copper–this copper-zinc balance so when people will tend to be low on zinc, they tend to be a little high in copper.  So–

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So I–and if you go high copper, right?  You have it’s called Wilson syndrome.  You have this Kayser rings or Kayser-Fleischer rings.  These like basically this little ring around where you iris is and you see the change of color.  You can see copper issues or copper excess with that.  So tend to see a lot more neurological issues when we have higher copper, right?  We have Wilson syndrome.

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  That’s a big one.  So I don’t tend to worry about copper deficiency as much.  I’m more concerned about zinc deficiency potentially being caused by a copper excess.  Does that –

Baris Harvey:  Yeah, okay.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Make sense?

Baris Harvey:  Yeah, it definitely.  So it’s more so unless someone’s like anemic, are you’re really looking into like something like copper?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, I mean, I’m more concerned about people having a copper excess because of the zinc thing, right?  Because of–

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  All that.  So that’s kinda where I put my focus that.  Again, you’ll sometimes see this, like we’ll talk about some of these tests like on a NutrEval or on a SpectraCell test.  Sometimes we’ll see some of these things, but again like some of the foods that are high in zinc are also high in copper, right?

Baris Harvey:  Yeah, exactly.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Seafood, oysters, right?  Kale, mushrooms, seeds, nuts, right?  Avocado.  So a lot of these foods being high in zinc.  So it’s like you’re eating real food–

Baris Harvey:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  You’re gonna be in pretty good place and if you’re having malabsorption, right?  Because of digestion stuff, well, you’re–those malabsorptions are probably across the board, right?  You’re probably gonna have malabsorption with copper and zinc, right?  It’s probably not gonna be specific to one.  That’s why making sure the nutrient–nutrient supportive foods are there at the foundation and then we can go deeper with specific testing and target the deficiencies.  Again, I don’t see copper being a huge issue but I’m not saying that doesn’t mean I haven’t seen them on a SpectraCell or a NutrEval either.

Baris Harvey:  Yeah, definitely.  I think one that, you know, I mean we know that as coming and that everybody needs to pay attention to is iron and having this is one of the–one of the big ones that a lot of people are deficient in.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Baris Harvey:  But it’s important to–to make sure I guess not just over-supplementing and just say, oh well, just in case, I’m just gonna supplement a whole bunch of iron.  We have to like kinda pay attention to this thing.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.

Baris Harvey:  Especially with women and especially with–with women athletes.  So let’s talk about iron’s role in health and in function, and what are some of the deficiencies.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Oh, this is great.  So I just had a patient that came to me yesterday that was super anemic, right?  We looked at her blood tests.  She had her MCV, MCH, MCHC all low across the board.  All those markers mean is they’re basically indicative of how big the hemoglobin molecule is.

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And then we looked across the board with low hemoglobin, low hematocrit, and her red blood cells were actually fine.  So when we start seeing the size of the hemoglobin and the size of the hematocrit and the size of the, you know, these different blood cell markers drop in size–

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  This is indicative of a microcytic anemia, right?  The blood cells are getting smaller due to lack of iron and iron’s super important because it carries oxygen, right?

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  It’s helping to carry oxygen throughout the body, so we need oxygen because cellular metabolism, aerobic metabolism is oxygen-dependent.  I mean, go hold your breath, right?  You’re not gonan get too far.  Go take a–a candle, right?  Light a candle, put a glass jar over the candle.  What happens to the candle?  It goes out because–

Baris Harvey:  It goes out.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Oxygen is needed, right?

Baris Harvey:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So on that note, you’re mainly gonna see this problem in women.  Why women?  Because women have this awesome system called they–their female hormone system which creates menstruation, bleeding, right?

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  This is their period where they bleed every month.

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So typically on day 27, 28, there’s a sudden drop in estrogen and progesterone.  That sudden drop then causes the uterine lining to shed and that shedding of the uterine lining causes bleeding.  So we tend to have this recycling of iron or this disposing of iron every month so we tend to never really get too high with women that have a healthy hormonal cycle.

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Now women that don’t, let’s say their more estrogen-dominant, they don’t have that sudden drop in progesterone.  They’ll bleed excessively, right?  And we know–

Baris Harvey:  Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  that cause of that because they’re going through more than 3 or 4 tampons a day, you know, 4 more is kinda like, oops you’re getting into like anemia territory, right?  They’re bleeding more than 3 or 4 days.  They’re starting to lose more iron.  So when we run blood tests to rule this out, we’re looking at iron saturation.  Are you in the low 20s?

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  We’re looking at TIBC.  We’re looking at UIBC.  These are binding proteins that go higher when our iron’s lower, right?

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So if you’re trying to grab more of something, you’re grabbing more and faster when you’re low in something. So binding proteins go higher when iron is lower.  So we’ll see these binding proteins start to go high.  We will start to see ferritin actually drop beneath 30 or so.  Now like we talked about with magnesium.  Magnesium serum is not a good way to assess magnesium deficiency.  We want red blood cell magnesium.  Now the equivalent for iron is ferritin.  Ferritin is more of our storage form of iron.  That’s the marker we wanna look at along with iron saturation.  Along with low or higher levels of TIBC and UIBC.  So we wanna look at all of those and then we’ll even look down the list at RBC, hematocrit, hemoglobin, MCV, MCH, MCHC, we’ll start to see these drop but again we’re not gonna see them all drop, right?  We have our pathological anemia where it’s like, “Whoa, like you are really bad, you’re iron is super low, like we gotta give you a blood transfusion,” to the–

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  “Hey, you know, you’re iron’s really low.  Take this iron supplement,” to the “ Hey, you know, you’re iron’s starting to get low.”  And where functional medicine comes in, we can really start to see when you’re starting to get low and/or when you’re starting to need supplementation to fix that.

Baris Harvey:  Yeah, exactly.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Now, giving an iron supplementation is palliative.  It will never fix the underlying issue because if it’s a hormonal issue, we have to fix the hormones.

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  If it’s a fibroid issue and the fibroid is stealing all of the iron, well, we gotta work on the fibroid.  If it’s a low hydrochloric acid thing and we’re not breaking down the hydrochloric acid, or we have a leaky gut and infection and we’re not absorbing it, we gotta fix that.  So it’s never for the most part unless you’re a vegan vegetarian you’re not eating much iron–

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  It’s never gonna be fully fixed or addressed with a supplement.  The underlying hormones, the underlying fibroid, the underlying low hydrochloric acid, the underlying malabsorption due to infection, those all have to be fixed individually to get to the root cause.

Baris Harvey:  Yeah, and also, even with that being said, a lot of times when people are going–coming from their doctors, because this is something that I had to deal with–had to help with my mom with–and my sister with anemia and getting them even the right type of supplementation to just help them in the meantime of fixing that underlying cause, they’re usually given a form of iron that’s–and their supplementation–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Ferrous sulfate, that’s awful.

Baris Harvey:  That’s ferrous sulfate, which is like not like that absorbable and people know because guess what, like if you’re having diarrhea or constipation or nausea or vomiting, like that’s your body saying like, “Oh, this isn’t working,” either if you have diarrhea or you’re vomiting, that’s saying, “Whatever you just gave me, get it out of me,” and if you’re having constipating, it’s just slowing everything down,  It’s like you just backed up your toilet and–and it’s like now everything’s stuck.  So–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, exactly.

Baris Harvey:  Yeah.  Let’s talk about–so even the people that aren’t deficient and then they go to their doctors and it’s like, “Okay, well, here.  Here’s some, you know, ferrous sulfate or gluconate.”  Like both of those aren’t–aren’t really–they’re not like a chelated form that like actually absorbs very well.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Exactly.  So I like–one, I like giving my iron with–in a little bit of liver, so we have some predigested liver fractions.

Baris Harvey:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I also like iron in ferrous succinate.  Succinate is a good amino acid chelate but we’re giving it again with the liver and then we’re also giving it with vitamin C and–and even some B12 because this will all help with the absorption of it–

Baris Harvey:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  It makes it absorb a lot better.  There’s also a great one called Floradix that’s very good, too.  That’s liquid.  So if we’re having absorption issues, Floradix can be really, really helpful.

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Again, ferrous sulfate, you know, the big thing is you start to see constipation, you start to see really dark stools.  It’s not a real highly absorbable iron so getting a good one is gonna be important to start, and just to note, again, non-heme iron sources–non-heme meaning getting iron from plant-based sources does not have a really good impact on your iron levels.  I mean, people will say get it from spinach, right?  It’s a not–it’s a non-heme source, not the best.  Much better doing grass-fed meat, much better off doing liver.  Liver is your ultimate.  These are better sources.  Animal products are gonna have much higher levels, much more nutrient-dense levels of iron.

Baris Harvey:  Yeah, it definitely.  Make sure it’s that–when you said the Floradix, I know they have 2 different kinds.  They have one that–that is–that is like yeast-free and doesn’t have any gluten, so make sure you–you keep your eyes out for that one.  It’s I think, it’s like a lighter box, but it should say yeast and gluten-free on your–on your box.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, I actually–

Baris Harvey:  Look out for that one.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, that’s a good one.  I actually use Energizing Iron by Integrative Therapeutics.  I carry them on my site.  The only issue with them, they have a little bit of soy in there–

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Which I’m not a fan of but they have, in my opinion, the best product because you have a little bit of Eleuthero.  Eleuthero is an adaptogenic herb but there’s also a natural iron in Eleuthero which is great.

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  They have the liver.  They have the vitamin C.  They have some of the–the B12 in there.  So a lot of the co-factors and it’s non-GMO soy and it’s a small amount.  So it tends to be worth–worth it.  So I have that on my site, if anyone wants to take a look at that, feel free and check it out.

Baris Harvey:  Yeah, definitely.  And then so another one that I wanted to–to mention briefly was potassium.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Baris Harvey:  And this is something that–that I think maybe it’s because–because of the, you know, we talk about magnesium a lot and–and the different things about, you know, the muscle contractions and the nerve impulses and you have to understand that potassium is another one of those things that have said that interplay with it.  I mean, if you think about it, the way that our–our cells works, it works is you know kind of sodium potassium like ion chain–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Baris Harvey:  So talk about a little bit about potassium and its roles.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So potassium is like a really important electrolyze and we have like our electrolytes are like magnesium, potassium sodium, calcium, they really help conduct like the nerves.  They help conduct action potential in the body.  Without them, right?  We have hyponatremia.  This is what happens when we drink too much come marathon time, right?  There’s always someone every year that drinks too much and dies because they don’t have enough of the minerals, right?  The activators in our body–

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So when we drink too much water we can dilute them and then we’re not gonna be able to help, you know, conduct nerves as well.  And this is important because nerves and muscles and the heart, that’s a muscle, right?  The lungs are a muscle, so we need them to be super, you know, super healthy.

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So we’ll see hypokalemia, right?  We’ll start to see weakness, right?  We can start to see heart issues, again the big thing is we wanna make sure that we have enough of these electrolytes.  So one of the first things we can see is cramping.  So if we’re sweating, if we’re having maybe diarrhea, excessive sweating, or getting dehydrated.  Maybe we have an eating disorder, maybe we’re taking too many laxatives or just eating super poor diet, we can start to have lower potassium, right?  Palpitation, constipation, fainting.  So getting good potassium-rich foods are gonna be, you know, essential, and even taking a–a electrolyte support product–

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Would be helpful.  There’s a couple that I use.  But getting good quality sea salt in your body will be super healthy.  Again, like a lot of our potassium-rich foods are gonna be like leafy greens, even white potatoes, squash is super good, fish, salmon, avocadoes, mushrooms, you can even do a little bit of banana, it’s high in sugar but these are great ways to get good levels if you’re low. I have an electrolyte synergy product that has all of the electrolytes in there without all the sugar and dyes and crap like you get in Gatorade.

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  That can be helpful.  Just making sure you salt your water with a good quality sea salt that will have some sodium and potassium in there is a really great way to make sure you have enough, too.

Baris Harvey:  Yeah, it–its funny how that works, right?  Like people will drink like so much water and it’s–and if it doesn’t really get to the cells, like it doesn’t matter at the end of the day.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Baris Harvey:  But if you just put–sprinkle a little bit of high quality salt and sometimes I tell people, and they’re like, “Eww, that’s not.”  I’m like, “You can’t–you can’t really taste it.”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Baris Harvey:  But like, if you put salt in the water, it will be–it will be good.  Trust me.  It will be good for you.  That’s–that’s what I do when I–when I go for a sauna session.  I just put–put a little bit of salt in my water because I know that I’m not just losing water from the sweat but there’s also like sweat is salty.  There’s–I’m losing electrolytes as well.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Exactly.  So having good potassium, making sure you have a good potassium in your supplements.  Again, there’s a couple things you can do if you’re seeing your urine in the morning, it’s too acidic, it’s in the lower 6s, 6.5, on a pH strip, first morning urination, you can supplement with potassium and magnesium together.  These are you know, bicarbonate alkaline sources–

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  That can help alkalize the urine.  Again, I’m not a huge fan of this.  I–I-I’ve been taught this in my functional medicine education.  It can be very helpful with people that are chronically ill, is just taking, you know, making sure you do all the diet stuff, take your first morning urination–

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  See if your urine is on the lower end, right the low 6s, and try to get it to the upper 6s, low 7s, by taking a potassium-magnesium bicarbonate glycinate support before bed that can be helpful, I don’t think it’s getting at the root issue but I have heard some anecdotal evidence that people do see a benefit with some of this supplementation before bed.

Baris Harvey:  Yeah, definitely.  Is there any specific ones­–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Moss Nutrition–

Baris Harvey:  That you wanna talk about?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, Moss Nutrition makes a potassium-magnesium bicarbonate product that’s really, really good.  Dr. Moss formulated it himself.  You go to you could find that one.

Baris Harvey:  Oh, yeah, I’ve heard about that before.  You said Moss Nutrition, right?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm, exactly.

Baris Harvey:  Yeah, definitely.  Are there any other nutrients that–that you wanted–wanted to mention that would make things–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Well, we have things, yeah, we have things like calcium for instance.

Baris Harvey:  That’s a big one.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And I think calcium is, yeah, I think it’s one of these overrated nutrients, because we need vitamin K with calcium to have calcium go into the bone.  We need healthy–

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Vitamin K.  So getting healthy fats in our diet, eating healthy grass-fed butter, getting these nutrients up are gonna help calcium work better.  So, I mean, calcium is one of these things.  We’re worried about bones but half our bones are made from proteins.  We gotta have adequate protein levels–

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And we got 12 other minerals in our bones outside of just calcium.  So we wanna have a spectrum of–of minerals.  So really making sure you’re eating nutrient-dense foods like if you look on the healthy mineral list, right?

Baris Harvey:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  The foods that you see come up time and time again for minerals are dark, leafy greens.  You see squash–

Baris Harvey:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  it’s over and over again.  You see avocado, you see fish, right?  You see mushrooms, you see grass-fed meat, you see liver, you see oysters, so it’s like, “Hello, just make sure you’re getting some of these foods in your diet–“

Baris Harvey:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  “On a daily basis, if not weekly basis.”

Baris Harvey:  Yeah, definitely.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I mean, the greens should be every day.  The fish should be a couple times a week.  The squashes and sweets and potato a couple times a week, depending on your blood sugar and such.

Baris Harvey:  Yeah, like kale, mustard greens and–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Baris Harvey:  Like what else?  Avocadoes?  These are–these are not hard to get it in and if you have a blender, just like blend it.  Just do something, like it’s a, yeah–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, just get in, man.

Baris Harvey:  You see these foods come up over and over and over again, probably a good idea that you should include them into your diet.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Absolutely and I think it’s good to have a–a good quality multi in your support product–

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  In your kinda regimen, just so it’s gonna give you a baseline of–of certain nutrients.  I call it my insurance policy, right?

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I’m trying to eat nutrient-dense foods but you know, we know based upon our soils that they just aren’t the way they used to be 100 years ago.  An apple a hundred years ago isn’t the same apple today, nutrient-wise.  So having a good quality supplement is my insurance policy.  Using it from high quality brands like whether it’s Thorne or Douglas or Designs for Health, or Pure Encapsulations.  I formulate–I’m actually in the process of formulating my own kind.  Basically, these companies are gonna have the highest quality, the highest cleanliness, their independently tested, third-party tested.  They’re gonna be chelated meaning they’re gonna be bound–bound to other amino acids.  They’re gonna be highly absorbable.  They’re gonna make sure they break down in water so you’re able to absorb them.  You wanna make sure you’re getting a high quality supplement that meets your needs.  That you’re gonna be able to–to break down and absorb, assimilate, and utilize.

Baris Harvey:  Yeah, definitely, definitely, I feel the same way.  Yeah, so that was a lot of great information.  We went over a lot of different topics, a lot of different micronutrients and I hope that this was really helpful for the listeners out there, kind of wanting an overview of–of essential minerals, so we’ve talked about the vitamins before.  So getting that scope over into what are some of the minerals and actually getting an idea because they’re probably told all the time about–about “Oh, you need calcium,” or “You drink more milk,” or “You need–you need these vitamins or these minerals,” but they–they don’t really know why.  You know what I mean?  Or they just go to the doctors and they’re just like, “Oh, okay, I’m supposed to take this iron.  I don’t–I just–I have anemia but that’s about it, that’s all I know why I’m taking it.”  But they might not be taking the right one so I’m glad that we were able to kinda give everybody an overview of some of–of some of the things that might be helpful when it–when it comes to supplementation and where to get your nutrients and minerals from.  Was there anything else that you wanted to add today, Dr. Justin?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Well, just–on one thing on the calcium, right?  One of the best things for calcium–I’m not even talking about dairy.  If you can handle raw dairy, that’s great, but again–

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Salmon, right?  One half can of salmon.  Eat the bones, you’re getting, you know, 25 ounces of calcium.  Sardine, right?

Baris Harvey:  Yeah, bones.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Sardines, bok choy, kale, like we’re not even talking about like the milk mustache, drinking your–your skimmed milk, right?  We’re talking about things that aren’t even, you know, dairy-based.  So if you’re dairy sensitive, if you’re like, “Oh, these Paleo diets, they cut out milk, they cut out grains, where am I gonna get my extra minerals?”  It’s like, well, right there, you know.  Right there, there’s lot of nutrient density in these Paleo food.  So start with there, and then on that note, if you’re thinking like, “Alright, great, I’m eating good.  I’m Paleo, what’s next?”  Alright, well, one, you can make sure you’re absorbing them, making sure you’re tummy is infection-free.  That’s number one.  But number two, I recommend some micronutrient testing.  There’s 3 tests that I recommend off of that.  Again, depending on–

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Where you’re at, I may recommend one for each person that may be different.  So essentially an organic acid test is a great test to run from Genova or MetaMetrics.  Number two, a SpectraCell micronutrient test is another great test to run.  And number three, a NutrEval urine/blood test from Genova or MetaMetrics is another great test.  So we have organics, organic acid, we have SpectraCell and we have NutrEval.  I’m gonna put the links for these tests in the show notes.  I’m also gonna put it under the–in the iPod or the iPad info thing if you’re–if you’re listening from the podcast on iTunes, or I’ll put it in the YouTube descriptions, so wherever you’re at, you could see it.  Click it on the link and that will bring you right to my store where you can actually get these tests so you can actually see where you’re at if you wanna dig deeper.  Just wanted an option for people that–alright, they’re already doing good, but now what’s next?  This is–this is the next–this is the next step if you will.

Baris Harvey:  Yeah, definitely.  Well, sounds good, Dr. Justin.  Again for all the listeners, make sure that you go to  This will allow you to get the first information, you’ll be the first ones, so make sure you go to sign up page and sign up for our newsletter.  We really appreciate the–the activity lately.  We’ve been getting a lot more downloads.  We’re almost to half a million lifetime downloads–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Wow.

Baris Harvey:  So that’s really amazing.  It–it makes us happy, we know that we’re doing our–our thing and that we’re giving the information that you guys wanna hear.  So again, make sure that you continue with the feedback.  iTunes rating, we really appreciate it, we’ve been getting some more iTunes ratings, and we really appreciate that as well.  So if you guys have any questions, make sure you go to and you can–tell us what you like, tell us what you like, tell us what you don’t like and really–and become a part of this.  You can add in exactly what you wanna hear because I know, we–we see the numbers they keep going up so we know that more people are listening, but don’t be shy.  Go ahead and reach out to us and let us know exactly what you wanna hear.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Awesome, Baris.  Yeah, we’re gonna be at a million downloads in June, that’s our run rate.  I just ask everyone that’s listening, this is your show.  Baris and I are here to–to research and bring cutting edge information for you.  So we ask if you like this show, just share it with one person that know–that you know they can benefit from and please give us feedback.  We want your feedback.  Feedback is the breakfast of champions.  We wanna provide information for everyone listening.

Baris Harvey:  Yeah, so thank you guys so much and for next time.  You guys have a good one.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Thanks, Baris.

Baris Harvey:  Thank you.

Muscle Activation – Mike Hoban Podcast #26

In this podcast, Dr. Justin Marchegiani interviews Mike Hoban, a strengthening and conditioning expert to talk about the science of muscle activation in strengthening and enhancing athletic performance.

Find out the methods to reactivate our muscles by pressing the neurolymphatic points to restore and improve function.  Also the importance of proper nutrition and supplementation in building muscles, the different muscle testings, exercises to minimize injuries as well as the treatments available.


In this episode we cover:

01:46   Muscle activation points

15:37   Supplements for performance enhancement

17:41   Muscle Loosening and Gamma loop

26:26   Lactic Acid Training

29:50   Downside of Steroids  







Podcast: Play in New Window|Download

Justin Marchegiani:  Hi, this is Dr. Justin Marchegiani here.  Welcome back to Beyond Wellness Radio.  We have with us in studio, Mike Hoban and I am looking forward to a great chat with Mike.  Mike is a strengthening and conditioning coach.  He works with athletes at the collegiate level, the professional level and even kids in middle school and such.  Mike also works    with Arcway Technology which is a great technology for injury prevention and to speed up healing.    And before we go to Mike, I just want to remind everyone to check out where they can get the show updates.  Feel free to click on ask-a-question and you can ask the question for us and we will answer it on the air.  And also check out as well as for your female hormone and thyroid balancing video series.  Again, Mike how is it going, man?

Mike Hoban:  Awesome, Dr. Justin.  Thank you for having me.

Justin Marchegiani:  Yes, it was great catching up with you back at the Bulletproof Conference in September and I just saw your lecture on muscle activation, was just phenomenal.  So, if anyone did not get a chance to view it can you just kind of give us a summary of what you talked about and about muscle activation?

Mike Hoban:  Sure.  Basically, all muscular activation really is turning on muscle that has been shut off for whatever reason.  So, there are many ways to do it as you know, we are both trained in similar fashion.  What I try to put together was a method for people to basically be able to reactivate the big three muscles on their own.  So the big three muscles were the psoas also known as the hips, the glutes and the hamstrings.  And that is all it really was.  So it was just a matter of showing people what points to press on to reactivate those three muscles to get out with their performance with better movement right after that.

Justin Marchegiani:  Now, during the seminar, you had people come up and you were testing their psoas, testing their glutes and their hamstrings and their hip extensors and you were finding ones that were weak and were not turned on.  So when you find a muscle that is weak what does that mean?  Is it like, is the person just not weak?  Or is it like the person just not getting the activation there?  Can you describe that?

Mike Hoban:  Yes.  Essentially what it is for whatever reason the muscle has shut down and gotten into a protective mechanism…

Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.

Mike Hoban:  So when that happens obviously it goes into a short, basically like a wound-up position.  So think about like if you are in a fight and someone is about to hit you, you cover up and kind of tuck into a position where you are safe.

Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.

Mike Hoban:  Your muscles do the same thing.  So, by activating it you restore them to their normal life and they fire properly and basically operate at a higher level.

Justin Marchegiani:  Right, so you see people that still are strong, maybe from a hardware perspective, right?  The hardware is strong, the muscle is strong but from the software or the operating system perspective they are not neurologically strong.  Is that what you mean?

Mike Hoban:  Exactly.  I mean to give you an example.  First time I learned about some of these stuff I was studying with Dr. Jay up in Minnesota.  And I mean I am a decently strong guy.  I can still squat between 500 and 600 pounds.

Justin Marchegiani:  You are a beast, Mike.

Mike Hoban:  (Laughs) Not the beast I used to be but you can say that.

Justin Marchegiani:  (Laughs)

Mike Hoban:  He threw me on the table to test me and my psoas were just all large muscles, as you know.

Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.

Mike Hoban:  I could not hold them up.  He pushed me down with two fingers and then proceeded to make fun of me for the next 30 minutes.

Justin Marchegiani:  (Laughs) Got it.  So let us say I come in to you, right?  To see you and I have a weak hip flexor, weak psoas, weak glute, weak hamstring.  What would you do?  How would you assess me?

Mike Hoban:  Well, we will put you on a table basically to, you know, basic therapy table and we put you through a whole series of muscular tests.  So basically everything that I did at the conference and I have people lay down.  You put a limb in an extended position and apply force to it.  Not in a dangerous method but in a way basically just to test to see if the muscle is working properly or not.  And from there, you know, you get your response and see what you need to do. 

Justin Marchegiani:  Now from what I understand, the points that you are hitting, you are hitting these neurolymphatic points.  And just for people at home, if they put their hands at the back of their head and they feel that little ridge at the back of their head that is one of the points that Mike accesses.  So that little ridge right at the back of the head and you kind of find a real painful spot.  There is also one more right at the angle of the jaw, right where the jaw meets the neck.  And it is like kind of behind the earlobe and it is that really sensitive spot.  Now those correlate towards your glutes and your hamstring.  Now I know, again, a lot of people may not be able to get tested for their glute and hamstring.  But can you talk about how they would active their glutes and hamstrings with those points?

Mike Hoban:  Yes basically just what you talked about.  You feel around that ridge at the back of the head and the point you find in the jaw.  And you look for sensitive spots and those sensitive spots are signs.  Whenever those spots are tender or feel sensitive as you have said that is a sign of how shut down that muscle is.  So when you access them and you put pressure on them eventually those spots become less and less sensitive to the pressure.  And that is a sign that your hamstrings and glutes are firing better.  And most people will notice the difference especially with my athletes.  When I test them they will be able to up work on themselves and we noticed that some of the times they are faster and they are lifting more weight and they are doing things with better technique as well.

Justin Marchegiani:  Right.  So I see a lot of my patients and they may have like shutdown psoas or shutdown hip flexors, right?  Glutes.  And it is nice because we can say, “Hey, this is the spot to rub.”  So you may be like treating them.  You may be doing like some muscle spindle work or using the arc to get some of these muscles activated. But the nice things about these spots is you can actually give them exercises just to rub during a movement right when they are at a gym or if they are a baseball player at the plate.  You can give them movements and exercises to do right during the at bat or right during the movement to stimulate muscles, is that correct?

Mike Hoban:  Oh yes, it is a take home system and it is something that works very well.  It really helps to exacerbate, you know, whatever type of therapy you or myself are putting the individual through.  It helps to basically solidify it, is how I look at it.

Justin Marchegiani:  And I remember when you treated me, I would say about a year and a half at the first Bulletproof Conference, you did a maneuver where you were testing the oblique muscles.

Mike Hoban:  Yes.

Justin Marchegiani:   So the oblique or the abdominal muscles and you are twisting me or turning me.  So anyone that throws the baseball or hit the tennis racket or swings the golf club or swings the baseball bat, again that is the core muscle that are going to be turning your hips.  And I remember with me, you had me rub the inside part of my adductors or groin areas and I was like ten times stronger.  Can you talked about that movement and how people could do at home?

Mike Hoban:  Yes.  It is a very simple technique.  I mean, the easiest way to test it at home would probably be to, because you can test your ads on your own, I would say do a sit up and see how long you can hold up that position.  So try to get to a 45° angle and try to stay there.  Most people would have a difficulty doing these.  They are going to have to either start compensating and using their tibialis or you know using your arms to help them stay up there.  And the activation itself is really simple.  So you put your hands inside your legs and you basically rub up and down, you know.  What we say with the male athletes is you rub these nuts.

Justin Marchegiani:  (Laughs)

Mike Hoban:  Pardon my French.

Justin Marchegiani:  (Laughs) Oh, man.

Mike Hoban:  (Laughs) And you do that for about 10 seconds and then you re‑test and that is a very, very quick activation.  And people see results very quickly with it and that is all it takes.  And most people can hold that position, you know, probably if you held it for 10 seconds the first time and probably hold it for 30 to 40 seconds after the treatment.

Justin Marchegiani:  Got it.  So we just did the abdo obliques there, we did the extensor, the glute and the hamstring.  And by the way, is the one on the back of the head is that the glutes or is that the one on the side of the jaw?

Mike Hoban:  The jaw is the hamstrings.  The back of the head is the glutes.

Justin Marchegiani:  Okay, got it.  Are there any more of those points that you know of that someone listening to this show would be able to use right away?

Mike Hoban:  There’s a bunch of them.  Those are the big three.  Those are the main three.  Probably the other one that is the most important would be the psoas activation.

Justin Marchegiani:  And where is that point?

Mike Hoban:  That is medial to, I will just use layman’s terms, the hip bone.

Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.

Mike Hoban:  So the ASIS you would come medial probably about an inch to two inches and start looking for a tender spot there.

Justin Marchegiani:  So for anyone listening put your hands kind of where your pockets would go and feel for that really bony prominence that kind of sticks out, that is the ASIS and go in one inch.

Mike Hoban:  Uh-humm.

Justin Marchegiani:  Alright, cool.  And then everyone, you are just rubbing that or stimulating it, for what 5 or 10 seconds?

Mike Hoban:  Yes.  You want to get pretty deep on it.  You want to use, relatively speaking 8 to 12 pounds of pressure because you have to…  You know if you are a little bit of a thicker individual you probably need to push a little harder.

Justin Marchegiani:  Yes, got it.

Mike Hoban:  Because you do have to stimulate that nerve bundle but you have to get in.

Justin Marchegiani:  Got it.  Okay, cool.  So Mike, tell me about some of the athletes and some of the people that you work with.  I know you worked with a lot of professional athletes as well.  And what are the things that you are doing to help people get to the next level, get drafted to play at a high professional level?

Mike Hoban:  Well, the biggest thing we do is the minute the individual walks in our door is we start with an evaluation.

Justin Marchegiani:  Great.

Mike Hoban:  And we look at, I look at so many things I do not even know where to start.  I train a lot of pitchers.

Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-humm.

Mike Hoban:  And so pitchers just about always have what I call, I just refer to it as a pitcher’s retroversion.  It is basically their push leg, the ankle is always sprained.  And it is not because they actually sprained it.  It is the position that it goes into when they push off the mat.

Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.

Mike Hoban:  So if you ever look at that, a pitcher actually rolls his own ankle on the opposite direction from where he is throwing the ball and where his body is going.  This is the rubber, the way they use the rubber off the mound.

Justin Marchegiani:  Got it.

Mike Hoban:  So that is one of the things that we end up doing.  We end up doing like a tib-fib technique which I do not know if your audience is familiar with that.  But we basically just throw a little tape on the ankle and that makes sure that all those muscles in the leg keep firing in the proper method.  Once we do that that is kind of what we consider, you know ground zero.  When everything is firing properly and working that is when we go into, you know, the basic strategies in training and what not.

Justin Marchegiani:  Great.  And so just to describe for everyone at home, a tib-fib technique Mike is talking about is a shock absorber technique.  Essentially you are taking the tibia or the bottom part where the calf is and you are whacking the heel.  You are whacking the heel in right towards the tibia kind of like you were running and you are simulating force going to the joint.  Because how the body is lined up is if force does not get absorbed properly into the joint because the joint is not stable, it actually sends nerve signals to the brain to shut down the muscle. If the joint is stable it will send signals to accrue the muscle.  So what Mike is talking about is whacking the bottom of the heel right in line with tibia.  And we test any other muscle in the body and it will shut down if that joint is unstable.  And this is important because an ankle issue can cause weakness anywhere in the body.  It can probably take what, 5 or 10 miles per hour off a fast ball?

Mike Hoban:  Oh easily, it can do that and you can have close to half a second to a 40.

Justin Marchegiani:  Wow!

Mike Hoban:  Yes.

Justin Marchegiani:  Unreal.

Mike Hoban:  We have seen that if they are in a fatigued state and if they have been going for a while the other 45 will drop dramatically.

Justin Marchegiani:  Now I find that is a huge thing in the athletes and professional people that I see, it is the tib-fib.  Now is there anything like that that you would consider like a deal breaker?

Mike Hoban:  Good question.  Probably, again as I primarily deal with baseball players but I see it in every sport, there is always a pelvic imbalance.

Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.

Mike Hoban:  And that is because it seems no matter what sport we are into there is always one side that is favored over the other.

Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.

Mike Hoban:  So that is a big thing we need to restore right away as well.

Justin Marchegiani:  Got it.  And can you talk a little bit more about diet and kind of what you are teaching your athletes to eat?

Mike Hoban:  Well, the high school kids you basically just pray that they are not stuffing some coke right down their necks 24/7.

Justin Marchegiani:  (Laughs) Right.

Mike Hoban:  But as far as diet, the thing that we would look at are adequate protein intake.  Good essential fats.  Grains which is, you know, a war in and of itself with these people and then proper hydration.   Those are the four basic things we look for initially.  After we kind of get those things in line that is when we can start to move on to the more complex stuff.  Diet is one of those things where it is much psychology as it is physiology.  And you really have to kind of give people what they can handle because food is a very sensitive subject with a lot of people.

Justin Marchegiani:  Right.  Can you touch upon protein?  What are your recommendations for protein to people that are trying to put on muscle or athletes and such?

Mike Hoban:  It depends on the individual.  It depends on how quick the metabolism works.  You know how often they are training.  Are they in a sport or out of a sport?  For the sedentary athlete who is training, you know, about three times a week and we train hard.  We do lift heavy weights…

Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.

Mike Hoban:  We try to get them to get a gram of protein per pound of body weight.

Justin Marchegiani:  Yes, that makes sense.

Mike Hoban:  Yes.  Whether that actually happens or not is another story.

Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.

Mike Hoban:  Like I said especially dealing with high school kids because you know cookies are so much tastier than a protein shake.

Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.

Mike Hoban:  But you try to make sure they, at least while they are here at the facility, you know, they are drinking their protein and doing what they are supposed to do after their workout and taking their supplements during their workout as well.

Justin Marchegiani:  That makes sense. That makes sense.  And taking about supplements, are there any supplements that you recommend for training or to improve performance or stamina, things like that?

Mike Hoban:  The biggest thing I recommend most people use is good omega 3.

Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.

Mike Hoban:  Aside from the certain staples that we always recommend.  We always recommend magnesium.  We always recommend protein powder and omega 3 because you want to keep insulin and inflammation in proper levels.

Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Mike Hoban:  We are always going to have some level of those but you want to keep it in the proper level.  Like I said, protein and magnesium I think is huge.

Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Mike Hoban: Just because that is the nutrient of insulin sensitivity.  There are just so many functions in the body that magnesium helps with.

Justin Marchegiani:  Got it.  Got it.  And you are obviously trying to cut grains out of these kids’ diets too, right?

Mike Hoban:  Yes.  You want to eliminate all the bad stuff.  But like I said, it is very, gluten especially, because you know, go and tying it with inflammation.  But like I said it is got to be a slow process because you have to kind of give and take, if you know what I mean.

Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.

Mike Hoban:  If you take something out of their diet I have to give them something back somewhere along the line.

Justin Marchegiani:  Got it.  So let us say I am an athlete or I am a person and I am trying to run faster or sprint faster.  Like what are the things that you would look at in my kinetic chain?  What are the things that you would want me to do in my exercise routine so I can sprint faster or move faster?

Mike Hoban:  Well, we have to look at what is going with you at first.  So if you need to sprint faster I am going to guess there is a problem to begin with.  So nine times out of ten with the kids we see, they are what we call push runners where they are relying on the musculatures to the front of their body.  So when they try to run from their quads or from their psoas which just does not work, that is not our muscles of propulsion so to speak.  So first thing that we need to do in that case is to get them dominant back to their glutes and hamstrings.   And from there, we look at ankles, we look at rotator cuff, we look at how everything fires properly, what is the posture you are in.  So just to give you an example because I am kind of rambling here, first thing that we would start to do is to strengthen the ankle joint.  So I like to do a lot of barefoot stuff.

Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.

Mike Hoban:  Just kick off their shoes and they start to do things like wine hops which is an exercise as simple as it sounds.  You just hop back and forth over a line on one foot.

Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.

Mike Hoban:  Another thing that we would do is like trampoline squats where they have to basically engage the muscles in different planes.

Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.

Mike Hoban:  And anything even like toe walks, basic stuff where they are up on the balls of their feet and recruiting the muscles properly and squeezing their glutes as they step.  Because that is going to teach the body basically how to land in the right position and propels off properly.

Justin Marchegiani:  Got it.  Got it.  And it is fascinating what you said because I find a lot of people, their glutes and their hamstrings are off mainly because they are just sitting all day and that psoas basically reciprocates and inhibits that glute muscle so the whole extensor chain in the back is just shut down, right?

Mike Hoban:  Uh-huh.  Definitely, definitely.  And a lot of it I find with these athletes.  We start these kids at such a young age and in some of these sports like for example, soccer.  You know, where it is a stop start score and these kids do not know how to decelerate on the glutes and hamstrings.  So they start relying on the musculature in front of their body and that develops kind of a push run syndrome.

Justin Marchegiani:  Got it.  So if I am a person, an athlete or even just a regular everyday person coming to see you, you have talked about the Arcway Technology which is a specific bioelectric device that I know you use with your athletes for performance enhancement as well as injury healing.  How would you incorporate that into your program?

Mike Hoban:  Again it depends on the individual.  But one thing we do like to do is the loosening.  It is probably the best function on that machine.

Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.

Mike Hoban:  So, pre-workout we loosen and post-workout we loosen.  Doing it in the beginning gets the muscle to go back to its original life and myofibril is back where it should which allow for better range of motion for most people. And it allows for the muscles to fire properly as we are talking about.  That works much better once the muscles are activated.  So whether someone is put in balance or doing their lymphatic points they get even range of motion from loosening after we have done that.  Post workout, what it really does is helps restore the muscle fibers and reduce some limits.  That is huge for most people because they feel like they have worked but they do not feel like they are dead the next stop.  And that is really like psychological for a lot of people.

Justin Marchegiani:  So you just said something very interesting.  I never thought about using the electricity coming through over those neurolymphatic points.  And you are saying you get great results using it over the points as well.

Mike Hoban:  Yes.  You can do that or you just stimulate the points prior to.

Justin Marchegiani:  Okay.

Mike Hoban:  I have done stuff where like, because you know you can Arc your own hand and do things like the ARP.  I have actually Arc my own hand and done some activation points on people.  They were not overly appreciative about the time that they were there afterwards.

Justin Marchegiani:  (Laughs) That is great.

Mike Hoban:  They were a little angry with me during the process and when they found out they were a lab rat they were really angry.  But after that they got over it.

Justin Marchegiani:  Nice.  Now you mentioned like loosening.  You were using the current to loosen the muscle.  You were using it afterwards to helps regain elasticity after the workout.  What about during the workout?  Are you putting current into the muscle to see if we can recruit more muscle fiber during the movement?  Did you do things like that at all?

Mike Hoban:  On occasion.  On occasion we do some gamma loop stuff where we attach it into an extensor to get a response from another extensor.  So one of the things that is kind of known in the Arc community is if you want to get the hamstrings to fire more you put the Arc on someone’s triceps.

Justin Marchegiani:  Okay.  Can you talk more about this gamma loop?  This is fascinating.

Mike Hoban:  Okay.  So the gamma loop is basically to put it in quite simple terms, all extensors in our body are related and all flexors in our body are related as well.

Justin Marchegiani:  Okay.  So kind of how we embryologically form, the extensors are related together and the flexors are, right?  That is what you said?

Mike Hoban:  Yes.

Justin Marchegiani:  Okay, got it.

Mike Hoban:  So by attaching the arc to one extensor you are going to get a response in all the extensors.  So by putting it on the triceps which is an elbow extensor you will get a response and the hamstrings and glutes which are hip extensors.

Justin Marchegiani:  Got it.  Okay.  That makes sense.  And if we do bicep that would be the bicep and the psoas?

Mike Hoban:  Bicep and the psoas and the quad.

Justin Marchegiani:  Okay got it.  Very interesting.  Alright.  So is there anything else you wanted to touch upon that you find as just very helpful for people trying to perform better?  Like just key foundational things.

Mike Hoban:  I think one exercise that is very under graded for most individuals and we do not do enough of it because it is not really a sexy exercise is the Superman.

Justin Marchegiani:  Ah, okay.  Can you talk about the Superman, how does it work?

Mike Hoban:  Well, basically the Superman is just an exercise where you lie on your stomach face down and you lift your opposite arm and your opposite leg and reestablish what is called a cross crawl pattern which is something we kind of lose.  Because in our society as kids, were brought to our feet too quickly.  We are not allowed to crawl and really establish those proper neural patterns and that kind of messes us up later in life.  People want their kids on their feet, you know too quickly and they establish poor patterns at such a young age and you have to break them later on as they become athletes and when they want to progress.

Justin Marchegiani:  Absolutely.  And for anyone listening, who is a parent and has children; do not force your kids to walk too soon.  Do not try to pick them up and have them walk.  Do not put them in a Jolly Jumper that actually destroys their cross crawl neurological system.  It screws up the development of their cervical curve in their neck.  Because when they crawl for that, you know 12 to 14 months they develop that cervical curve for the child has to look up.  I agree.  I see so many people these days where they just like pushing their kid to walk so soon making their kid like an Einstein because they can walk sooner.  I am like, “No, you are pushing them through important developmental periods.”

Mike Hoban:  Exactly.  And it is one of those things were you know, like they say at people, “You need to learn to crawl before you learn to walk.”  We are kind of skipping that step.

Justin Marchegiani:  Yes. I was like looking at family pictures where I saw me in a Jolly Jumper which are the things attached to the doorway and then you jump up and down in them.  And I was like 6 months old and I am like, “Oh, my God!  My neurological pathways are not developed by then.”

Mike Hoban:  Yes.  I think my parents just kind of used me as a soccer ball when I was a kid.  That was what messed up my neurological patterns.

Justin Marchegiani:  (Laughs) So when you see your athletes coming in how do you make the connection that there is a cross crawl deficiency maybe when they were younger to their movements as an adult or teenager?

Mike Hoban:  Well, one of the easiest ways is just have them run and we will see nine times out of ten in some of these kids who were put through these things when they were young they will actually try to run same on same leg as opposed to doing opposite on opposite like we were supposed to.

Justin Marchegiani:  You know that is funny you say that, Mike because when I treat a lot of patients every now and then I get a fair amount of patients when we are doing like, we are working on the hip flexor or the extensors or we are kind of like marching in place, you know, the exercise we were doing with the Arc.  And they are marching in place and they just, for the life of them, do not synchronize their hands and feet.

Mike Hoban:  It is crazy, right?

Justin Marchegiani:  It is like, no, no, no.  Like this and then do this and then you just try to break it down really.  So there are some people I have to take their arms totally out of the equation because they could not sync them out.

Mike Hoban:  Yes, it is funny because if you actually do a muscle test on someone, say you test their shoulder and you test them on.

Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.

Mike Hoban:  If you have them marching properly so like right arm, right leg, left arm left leg.

Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.

Mike Hoban:  And have them do that five or ten times and you retest their arm it will be weaker.

Justin Marchegiani:  Oh, really?  I would repeat it, Oh, wow!  Yes that totally makes sense.

Mike Hoban:  Yes because they shut down their own neural system.

Justin Marchegiani:  So if they are doing their left arm left leg or right arm right leg at the same time it shuts down the neurology.

Mike Hoban:  Oh, yes and it will weaken it to a point where you can push that arm down with two fingers, it is crazy.

Justin Marchegiani:  Wow!  Wow!  Unreal.

Mike Hoban:  And the funny thing is to reestablish it if you shut it down in ten strides that is going to take 20 strides to reestablish it.

Justin Marchegiani:  So you had to put in more feedback into the system to kind of correct itself.

Mike Hoban:  Yes, you got to really reboot it.

Justin Marchegiani:  Okay.  Well, I got an email recently from Ben Greenfield and it was an article on sleep that he had written.  It is very fascinating.  I wanted to kind of run it by you.

Mike Hoban:  Sure.

Justin Marchegiani:  How important is sleep for recovery?

Mike Hoban:  Oh, it is huge.  It is huge. Because I mean that is when we secrete our hormones, growth hormones and what not to help our body recover.

Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.

Mike Hoban:  That is when our immune system recovers.  That is also when our nervous system recovers.  So sleep is enormous.  You know, I recommend just to try to get 8 to 10 hours, if possible.

Justin Marchegiani:  Got it.  And is there a particular window in which falling asleep at this time is better than another time?

Mike Hoban:  Well I would say falling asleep prior to 11 pm for most people is good because of the cortisol.

Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.

Mike Hoban:  So obviously cortisol is kind of a, well, I was going to say a necessary evil, but cortisol is actually our friend for part of the day.

Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.  Absolutely.

Mike Hoban:  But you want to have that secreted at a certain time and when you are sleeping it actually helps with some of the rebuilding process with regards to testosterone and estrogen and what not.

Justin Marchegiani:  Got it.  Got it, okay.  So if I am someone coming into your practice and let us say I am not like a professional or a college athlete but I am just someone that wants to be more active and wants to lose fat or to lose weight doing the absolute least amount of work, what would you recommend?

Mike Hoban:  Well, if you are ready for it, and that is the big thing because you have to give the body what it is ready for and what it is going to accept.  So if you go beyond that that is when things like overtraining and injuries happen.  But if you want the most bang for the buck, lactic acid training is probably where it is going to be at.

Justin Marchegiani:  Alright.  This is similar to what Body by Science I think.    Is it Dr. Doug McGuff, he talks about these stuff, too?

Mike Hoban:  I believe he does, yes.

Justin Marchegiani:  So if I am an individual and I want to try this lactic acid training and I think Poliquin also talks about it, too.  Correct?

Mike Hoban:  Uh-huh.  Yes Charles has also some on it, yes.

Justin Marchegiani:  So how would I go about applying this and using it?

Mike Hoban:  So what you want to do to increase lactic acid, you want to use big muscle groups and you want it to go for long durations of time.  Now when I say long durations, I mean up to a minute.  So if you are going to do it in a weight lifting workout, we will do something like a barbell back squat for, you know maybe 10 reps with a 4-second eccentric and a 1-second concentric.  Do that for ten, rest about a minute and you go right into an upper body exercise, say like a Lat pulldown, 10 reps same count.  And you want to basically establish as much time under tension as you can to increase as much lactic acid production as you can and increase the calorie burn.

Justin Marchegiani:  Okay.  Alright, got it.  So you would do that and typically you would choose like squat movements.  I know Doug McGuff has like, he does a lot of machine stuff.  So would you do like a leg press?  What would you recommend?

Mike Hoban:  You could.  I mean you can do leg press.   It depends on the individual.  If you are someone who is working out alone and you are not really familiar with weights then yes by all means use a machine.  If you are overweight I would stay away from the leg press just because you are not going to get the good range of motion that you are going to need and it is also going to push on your stomach and your internal system and it is going to cause a lot of pressure to go to your head.  Probably not the best feeling in the world for most people.  But yes machines are always a good option.  You can even do like a goblet squat.

Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.

Mike Hoban:  To start out.  And then go right to a hamstring crawl or something of that nature.

Justin Marchegiani:  Got it.

Mike Hoban:  Yes. So I would probably go just to lay one out really simply, say like either a body weight or a goblet squat, you know, and then take a minute rest go to the lat pulldown, 10 reps 4 seconds on the eccentric stroke and 1 second on the concentric stroke.  Repeat that four times.  Reps two minutes; move on to your next sequence.

Justin Marchegiani:  Got it.  That makes a lot of sense.

Mike Hoban:  Uh-huh.

Justin Marchegiani:  Now there a lot of emphasis put on especially for weight loss and I do it with my patients as well which is like burst training or high intensity interval training.  Can you comment upon that?

Mike Hoban:  Yes.  I mean it is a great concept and it works really well for people.  You have to again going back to, I am going to sound like a broken record here, but you have to go back to what the person is ready to handle at that time.

Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Mike Hoban:  So, sprints work great.  I think for most people it is finding the proper modality to do it then.

Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Mike Hoban:  When I do my sprints I like to use either like a recumbent bike or sometimes the rower if I am feeling especially masochistic that day.

Justin Marchegiani:  Ha-ha.

Mike Hoban: Those are the two I tend to go.  I do not really like the treadmill for that.

Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.  Yes, that makes sense.  Okay, alright.  Now I am going to go on some juicy stuff here.

Mike Hoban:  Okay.  We love juice.

Justin Marchegiani:  I love it, I love it.  Actually on that topic, what is your opinion?  I know you have lots of athletes at all levels.  What is your opinion on taking steroids?  What do you see?  I mean, obviously there are great gains on the short run.  What do you see in the long run?  What is your take on it?  Honestly just off the cup.

Mike Hoban:  My take on steroids.

Justin Marchegiani:  And to just be clear, we are taking about anabolic steroids..

Mike Hoban:  Uh-huh.

Justin Marchegiani:  That typically you would inject for athletic performance enhancement.

Mike Hoban:  Yes, that stuff is kind of a buzz right now.

Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.

Mike Hoban:  As with anything we take in this world, there is use and abuse.

Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Mike Hoban:  Though they can be taken properly and used to get an effect with minimal side effects or they can be abused and you can completely damage yourself later on in life.  I know of people that have really abused steroids for a long period of time and you know; now they do not have testosterone in their body.  Their cortisol levels are so low that they are in constant joint pain because they have no way to suppress anything.  So it is one of those things where you can use it but you know, at what cost?  What is going to come later on in life?  And I think that is that thing, too many people are far too near‑sighted and they do not just use it, they abuse it.  And that is what causes problems there down the road.

Justin Marchegiani:  And I have worked with a handful of professional athletes, too.  And one of the things I see, the main motivation why a lot of athletes use steroids is not just for performance enhancement, it is because they keep on getting freaking injured.  And I see a lot of people it is like, “Who makes it through the college ranks, and the minors or into the professionals?”  It is like, “Who can like withstand the injury and the abuse to your body?”  And a lot of people are using these things just to heal faster from their injuries.  What is your take on that?

Mike Hoban:  I think it is a temporary fix to a permanent problem.  Generally speaking when people get injured in a sport like, let us look a sport like baseball; it is because their body is not prepped properly for what they are going to be up against.  So, you know if you go into a sport like baseball or football where your muscles are imbalanced and there is an uneven pull on your musculature or on your skeletal system, yes as soon as you throw too hard or take a hit something bad is going to happen.  And something is going to pop, something is going to tear.  And I think that is the thing that people neglect.  So taking a steroid to help yourself recover faster, okay.  But what are you doing to remedy the actual issue?

Justin Marchegiani:  Right.  So like basically, steroids are just stimulating the body to heal but if the underlying imbalance, the underlying physiological, neurological imbalance is still there, well, it is like you are just putting a Band‑Aid on like a gaping wound.   It is just not going to be enough to fix it.

Mike Hoban:  Exactly.  You are putting a Band-Aid on a ruptured femoral artery.

Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.

Mike Hoban:  Nothing is going to change you are still going to bleed out.

Justin Marchegiani:  Got it, got it.  Well I think we were talking earlier, you are having this new site come up.  Can you talk about this new site?  Like what is the address?  And what are the things that you are promoting and offering on the site like?

Mike Hoban:  So we are going to have a website probably up in hopefully a couple of months.  We are still collecting a little bit of data and trying to write some articles.  It is called Magni-Fitscience.  And what we are going to do is we are going to offer some really quality supplements at a very good rate to the public.  And we are also going to have some online training and we are going to be posting informative videos and informative articles on how to make fitness a part of your life.  And how to easily streamline it in and make it not so much of a burden and make it kind of a, how can I put this, more convenient to people.

Justin Marchegiani:  More convenient.  Got it.  So if someone wants to workout with you like via Skype would you be able to help people like that?

Mike Hoban:  Yes.  Definitely.  We can write programs.  We just need to collect a little bit of data and we can definitely send something out.

Justin Marchegiani:  Great.  Mike, is there anything else you that want to share with our listeners that you think will be really beneficial at all that we have not touch on?

Mike Hoban:  Let us see.  There are so many things.  Proper supplementation, proper recovery and proper nutrition will take you much further in improving your life than most people realize, I think.

Justin Marchegiani:  That is great.  Awesome, Mike.  Hey, I think our listeners will love everything you have to say and I really appreciate you coming on the show.

Mike Hoban:  Thank you so much for having me, Dr. Justin.

Justin Marchegiani:  Thanks, Mike.

Mike Hoban:  Thank you.

The entire contents of this website are based upon the opinions of Dr. Justin Marchegiani unless otherwise noted. Individual articles are based upon the opinions of the respective author, who retains copyright as marked. The information on this website is not intended to replace a one-on-one relationship with a qualified health care professional and is not intended as medical advice. It is intended as a sharing of knowledge and information from the research and experience of Dr. Justin and his community. Dr. Justin encourages you to make your own health care decisions based upon your research and in partnership with a qualified healthcare professional. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. Dr. Marchegiani’s products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. If you are pregnant, nursing, taking medication, or have a medical condition, consult your physician before using any products.