Blood Sugar Issues and a Weaker Immune System – Blood Sugar & Virus Connection | Podcast #278
Hi everyone! Today’s podcast talks about blood sugar and immune system issues. Diabetes marks the second spot today in comorbidities, and more information about blood sugar regulation is coming right up. With current health concerns, it is also important that we know why our immune system weakens and how we can make it stronger. We have different kinds of viruses and infections everywhere, so we really want to lay down all the important information about having a strong immune system. Join me and Evan Brand in this podcast. More info below.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani
In this episode, we cover:
6:46 Glucose and Immune Function
11:43 Metabolic Side of Stress
18:38 Diets, Vitamins and Supplements
27:21 Flu Season
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey guys, it’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani here I’m with Evan Brand. Today we’re going to be chatting about blood sugar issues and the immune system. And of course, we’ll connect it to the corona virus here today as well. We want to make sense of why our immune system may be weak and how we can accelerate it and improve it. So we can deal with all kinds of different viruses and infections, including the corona virus. Evan, how are we doing today, man?
Evan Brand: Hey, I’m really excited to chat with you about this. We’ve been looking at several different charts and graphs, there’s just so much stuff to keep up with. There’s just so much data, they could even be overwhelming for us, you know, just because we’re looking at so many different numbers from so many different places. But one thing that’s consistent across the board is we’re seeing that people that have comorbidities are ending up in a more critical shape. So specifically diabetes is second on the list. Heart disease is first on the list. So that’s pretty interesting because diabetics are [inaudible] is in America, and arguably were one of the highest diabetes incidents of any country out there.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. And there’s a phenomenon in our body that our immune system uses is called phagocytosis. And phagocytosis involves like our macrophages and monocytes gobbling up viruses. So imagine a PAC Man or a PAC woman, and they are literally just basically grabbing various bacteria and viruses. And it’s gobbling it up now, when it invalid. So basically, it gobbles up a virus imagination, meaning it’s like you taking food and you swallowing it, it’s now inside of your body and your body digest it, your immune cells to the same thing with viruses. And when you have high levels of insulin, insulin actually decreases that process. It’s kind of like if you’re nauseous or sick, you don’t want to be swallowing or eating food. Right. Therefore you can’t digest the food that you’re eating. Well, it’s kind of like that with your immune cells. When your immune cells have high levels of insulin, it’s going to be harder your immune cells will be nauseous to a lot of that bacteria and viruses and won’t be able to digest it and break it down. Now really important because that process requires that process is decreased when there’s high levels of insulin. Now, insulin helps blood sugar go into your cell. Why does insulin go high? Typically, there’s too much carbohydrates and or inflammation. Usually, it’s a combination of the two, of course, more carbohydrates and insulin to go up, the more refined and processed the carbohydrates are, and of course, more inflammatory that carbohydrates are. So some people may have a big insulin spike with grains because one grains will eventually break down to carbohydrate and glucose in your body, but also, the more inflammation the grains cause, especially if you’re gluten sensitive, that may create a cortisol spike and mobilize even more sugar, right so carbohydrates kind of bump up your sugar, but you’re immune response and inflammatory response to it can even increase it even more.
Evan Brand: So it sounds like there’s multiple mechanisms against you in this aspect. And so you really want to go lower carb right now it sounds like it’s just a smart, protective. I would just say anything you could do to lower risk right now it’s going to be smart. So that seems like one thing that’s pretty low hanging fruit 100%. They’ve been studies where they look at diabetic patients, and they actually lower their insulin levels, trying to see if I can find a good study on this. Yeah, here’s a wonderful study. Okay, here Well, I’m going to tell you why you’re pulling that up. I’m going to tell you what I saw over the weekend, which was a video from a doctor who had reported that out of I think it was 23 patients that were in his unit that were in really bad shape. 19 of those were confirmed diabetics. So 19 out of 23 that were in really bad shape, confirm diabetics. So, to me, that’s pretty telling and I’m sure there’s bigger numbers out there. That’s a pretty small patient group, but still still helpful to to have that data.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. Let me go show you guys. So if you guys are listening on the podcast, we also have a YouTube version of this as well where you can see the actual video. So that’s important. So if you guys are driving, don’t worry, we’ll put the YouTube link down below. So if you want to watch the video you can, I’m going to share my screen Evan so you can see. So this is really interesting here. Let me just show you all this. So what they’re actually showing here is this. You can see here’s the ingestion rate, this is your your neutrophils and or your phagocytosis happening by your macrophages. So this is ingestion. So this is like your immune cells eating stuff. And this is blood glucose. So as you can see, as your blood glucose goes up, what’s happening to your white blood cells being able to eat these viruses and bacteria, it’s dropping. Do you see that trend there? So you can look here, let me just kind of draw it up for you guys so you guys can see it and it makes sense. I’m going to make sense of this all so you can see the general trend is this. It’s down. Now again, these are really high blood sugar range. Just 300 400 500 but you can see, even at 100, hundred and 10 that trend already starts. So let’s say your blood sugar only goes to here, like 151 60. Well, you’re still having a decreased immune function, right?
Evan Brand: Yeah, I mean, I’ve had instances where I’ve taken my blood glucose after doing like rice, for example, in the blood sugar can go up into that range for sure.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and the thing is, if you’re eating every four hours, or you’re drinking a lot of alcohol or soda, you’re constantly jacking your blood sugar up, right blood sugar is going up chronically, which is then driving your immune system down. And again, you have to be you know, kind of more in the diabetic range to get over in these levels. But it’s, you know, it’s not impossible for someone to go up to 151 6180 acutely after a meal. And then if you’re chronically consuming excess carbohydrates, refined sugar, processed grains, you can Keep your immune system your blood sugar a little bit low. And that could keep your immune system. You know, if you’re at this ingestion rate over here of let’s say 75 or 80, and you drop it down, let’s say to 65. Well, guess what? That’s like a 30% drop in your immune function that may be just enough to get you sick. Does that make sense?
Evan Brand: It does makes perfect sense. Well, of course, autoimmune to right, if you have some autoimmune diabetes stuff going on, I’m sure that’s gonna play into this. We’re talking just stuff that you could easily do and try to help support if you’re in the type two category, but type one would still apply.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly, yep. And this is you know that a lot of different studies on this, that are looking at that or looking at glucose. In immune function. This is pretty common. So it’s really important to be able to know there’s a connection. And again, a lot of these studies connected to like diabetes or type two diabetes, which is fine, but there’s an in between area between having healthy glucose levels and being diabetic and alive. People are in this pre diabetic, whether we call it there’s starting to be this insulin resistance, it’s subclinical, it’s not at that 126 milligrams per dl of blood sugar, you may be just chronically above 101 10. And what does that mean? You may not have a 20 or 30 or 40% immune reduction, you may just have like a 10 or 20%. Right? And then that may be enough to get you sick.
Evan Brand: Yeah, that all counts, though, right? You may say, Oh, well, 10% reduction, but I want to do anything I can to to build myself up and reduce risk.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 110%. So there’s a lot of studies on that, and I’ve talked about it. That’s why right now, if you’re worried about Oh, Corona virus and other viruses, right, you really want to have your blood sugar under control, so leaning more or lower carbohydrate will be helpful. Also a lot of the inflammatory films that are produced from the immune reaction, right so when your immune system goes to fight a virus or if I fight infection, it it produces these inflammatory Well, it produces cytokines to go after what’s happening, right? These cytokines create an immune response. And typically there may be lippo polysaccharides that are produced from the infection. And so what happens is these lipid polysaccharides also can create inflammation. And some of the byproducts of the inflammation that are produced are these things called inflamasames. They’re like inflammatory compounds. And what happens is these things inhibit nitric oxide and nitric oxide is really in it blocks nitric oxide and it suppresses certain toll like receptors so dark pigmented fruits and vegetables are gonna block the LPS are that bad bacterial toxin that activates a lot of those inflammatory so doing bioflavonoids elderberry. Lots of high quality fruit vegetables, especially lower sugar on the fruit ranks. We talked about how high sugar stuff can decrease your phagocytes right? So we want to make sure that We’re on top of that, and we can decrease a lot of that immune response. Right. So the more refined and processed your carbohydrates are, when you make a lot of these cytokines, it’s possible that your body is going to have a increase inflamasome activity, so we can really modulate it. So think of a lot of these compounds and bioflavonoids, we talk about, like adaptogens for our immune system, or adaptogens for our adrenals. This is like adaptogens for like the cytokine response in your body, which is really helpful.
Evan Brand: Yeah, and I don’t know how powerful that would be like eating a handful of blueberries, versus doing like Japanese knotweed or some of these other side of kind of herbs that we’ve discussed. But to me, it’s all on the table at this point.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep, exactly. I mean, you’re going to eat anyway, you’re not going to just you know, get your calories and your nutrition off of herbs, right. It’s not going to happen, but can you use good herbs and nutrients that are supplemental for the immune system along with you know, fresh blueberries or really good quality bioflavonoids that are going to be in your vegetables and low sugar fruit. Yeah, I think so. And then of course, leaning more on on the lower carbohydrate side and improving your ketone levels, because ketones one, they’re going to want to keep your immune system or they’re going to keep your you satiated. And to ketones don’t have an effect that I’m aware of clinically of decreasing an immune response. And actually, your body tends to increase ketones when you get sick. Let me let me walk you through that. So when you get sick, what tends to happen, you tend to get more nauseous, right? And then the nausea does what it prevents you from eating, right? And then what is the eating? Do you actually start going into what I call starvation, ketosis, meaning you’re not getting enough calories, but you’re also going into ketosis, too. Now, that may be more on the severe side, right? Because your body’s trying to one not worry about digesting food, it’s worrying about digesting bacteria and viruses. Now that’s more when you’re sick. But what about the in between? Can you start to push your body a little bit into here? ketosis so you’re starting to do some cellular autophagy and clean up some junk in your body. Yeah. And with the with the ketones be fueling the weakened immune response like sugar would know they won’t be they won’t be right. And we talk Sugar. Sugar is typically sucrose, what sucrose, usually it’s 50%, glucose and fructose or 55 45 of its high fructose corn syrup, 55, fructose 45, glucose. So all that gets broken down into the same thing.
Evan Brand: It’s a big metabolic stressors, the key point here and so any stress in the bucket, we’re trying to analyze those. So we’ve talked about immune stressors. We did a whole podcast on different herbs to try to help calm the nervous system, because that’s part of the stress. Now we’re talking about the metabolic side of stress. So really, I mean, if you think of this whole thing as a spiderweb if we look at someone who’s getting critically ill, we’re thinking they may have emotional stress in the bucket. They may have metabolic stress in the bucket. You know, the dietary stress, they may not be sleeping well because they’re up all night watching TV for example. So They’ve got that melatonin cortisol disruption, which is also very impactful on the immune system. Because we know Melatonin is a super powerful antioxidant. It’s one of the most powerful known to man, and produced by the body. So to me, if you’re trying to look at all the data and you’re thinking, Okay, what can I do? I think the wise decision is try to look at these puzzle pieces, look at the spiderweb and try to systematically approach each of these categories making sure you’re getting to bed on time, like I put my little girls down and I go to bed kind of early. I know I go to bed earlier than you Dr. J. I go to bed like 9:30 10 you know, at the latest, sometimes even nine o’clock and then the winter when it’s dark. I may even go to bed sooner than that. So So sleep is foundation one and then foundation to get into doubt delta and focusing on your good quality fats to stabilize that blood sugar will still do some carbs and starch right, like well, we’ll do rice maybe once a week. We’ll do some potatoes maybe once a week. But other than that, it’s mainly good meat. Good fat. That’s good veggies, nuts and seeds. And then the herbals, vitamin C is not an herbal but vitamin C, some extra vitamin D, that stuff is all being used now in New York, you and I were talking about that earlier before we hit record that they’re starting to implement some IV vitamin C into some of these critical care facilities, which I think is a very, very smart idea.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% and also with the hydrochloric when alone protocol with the as the term is and the Z Pak, the doctors that are actually doing even better are adding about 230 milligrams of zinc to that protocol. And some that are even doing better also add in the vitamin C. So again, we always look at the immune function. Drugs are never essential to the immune system but nutrients are so that’s why leaning to extra zinc, or extra vitamin C, let’s say your diets great and you’re already getting a lot of those things. That’s awesome. But if you do get Exposure to something having more of those nutrients could help your immune system deal with that stress better, especially things like vitamin C, because there’s so much research on those at higher levels being very beneficial. And even if you were to get sick, your body’s gonna blow through those nutrients at a higher level. It’s just like, okay, now your drag race in your car, well, you’re gonna go through a lot more gasoline than you would if you were just driving normally, right? So you have to look at how you run in your body, if your body is already sick, or you’re under immune assault, right? You really got to bump it up even more so you can decrease exposure to the virus.
Evan Brand: Yeah, that makes sense. So, and someone who’s already stressed too, we know just by looking at organic acids testing. I mean, I would say 95% maybe your numbers a little different. 95% of people that we’re testing clinically are showing really low and a lot of nutrients. So amino acids, various nutrients, like vitamin C will show up low all the time. So to me, you may say that, Oh, this is extra supplementation. But to us, it’s kind of just baseline because so many people are deficient. So we’re actually implementing those already, even if this weren’t going on.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. And I see a lot of doctors out there that are throwing a lot of doctors under the bus that are recommending immune nutrients and our immune support. But frankly, there’s two differences in care. There’s differences when we’re working with someone in care, and we’re testing certain nutrients and we’re being more specific, and creating a longer term plan. But then there’s even with patients a palliative approach where we may upregulate our immune system for an a more acute response, like if someone’s going to be having more stress or they’re going to be flying on an airplane, or they’re going to be around people that are potentially more sick. That’s a difference to the protocol, we’re going to be having more of a palliative immune boosting acute approach. This isn’t more of a long term program. It’s more of an acute response because your body may be under more stress right now. And it’s just trying to increase our terrain and our reserves, so we can deal with something more severe Specifically, so a lot of people get very dogmatic and want to nuance this and make it more difficult than it is. And of course, different people need different nutrients. But there’s also general approaches that we can use across the board to give ourselves a little bit more of a bump across, you know, the population without having to see each person as a patient test everyone.
Evan Brand: Right, right. I mean, my thought of it is kind of like a road trip, you’re not going to start a road trip with a quarter tank of gas. If you know you’ve got a journey ahead, you don’t really know how things are going to end up. Why are people close to you going to get affected or not? It’s going to be wise to go ahead and fill up the tank with nutrition now, even if you’re someone who has zero concern, zero fear, worst case scenario, you know, something did happen to you, but I think it would be wise to just it’s a prep, it’s sort of prepping your body prepping your immune system, prepping the metabolic system, prepping the nervous system. Like last week, we did a show all about that. different herbs that we love and use to help with the nervous system. All of it counts.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Also, when You get exposed to put infection your needs go up. So ideally, you’re already nutritionally supported in a way where your vitamin A Levels are good, your sea levels are good, your D levels are good. So when an infection hits you, it literally bounces off you it can even gain a foothold into your body, right? We know the corona virus uses that h2 receptor site, and it gains a foothold in uses this like filament to drop off the RNA inside the cell. And then it replicates and then you have an immune response. But if we can even prevent that pesky little mosquito from from dipping its nose into that Ace to receptor site, then that prevents this whole issue from happening. So it’s keeping your immune it’s like kind of like, Hey, we’re going to replace the locks on our door. We’re going to maybe put a ring camera out there, you know, I may put an ADT sign or something to make people feel, you know, hey, we’re watching this, this receptor site this home a little bit better, and it may prevent someone from even accessing the home or the cell. Does that make sense?
Evan Brand: That’s a great analogy. I love it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, so there’s two ways to look at it. Hey, you get sick. How do we have a stronger immune response? But number two is how do we just prevent that invader from even opening the cell door to begin with? And so we kind of want to look at it from two sides of the coin if we can.
Evan Brand: Yeah, and of course you can’t sign in blood and say, hey, look, if you do all the right things, you’re going to have guaranteed protection but to me, it makes sense that you could reduce risk I mean, if we look at just try to comparatively look at vitamin D levels and the flu we know just by looking at the data you can see in general, lower vitamin D equals increased risk. So the data is there on this this is not stuff we’re just making up on the fly to sell some vitamin D you know it’s there.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep 100% and also, the patient’s got a road in here well what this fasting help well, depends. If you’re sick fasting can definitely help but we still want nutrition to come in. I would just lean in maybe on some collagen, amino acids smoothie, or maybe even just some bone broth or some gentle soup. Because when you when you are sick, your immune system just kind of doesn’t want to work as well because It’s mobilizing that energy right? When you eat food half of the energy that you take in goes to the digestion process. It’s kind of expensive. I use the analogy of using your credit card and having a 50% transaction fee on it. Hey, you buy $100 pair of shoes. Well you get a bill $50 after the fact right, that’s, that’s expensive. So if we can break everything down and make it easier on the tummy, or even go a little bit lower calorie for a day or two, but do it in response to your appetite dropping and nausea occurring if you’re not having a whole bunch of nausea or appetite drop, listen to your body, but you can always do a little bit of fasting. But try to make sure if you’re not nauseous to get enough nutrition, right extra nutrients, potassium, vitamin C, proteins, fats all that’s going to be great and if you start to feel your appetite going down, you can lean into a little bit more of a fast but you know still rely on easy to access nutrition from bone broth or collagen, amino acids or some simple smoothies.
Evan Brand: Yep, you said it best once on a call. Which was that? If you said there’s no nutrition and starving, so you kind of have to weigh that balance of potential benefits and things getting upregulated, maybe more ketone production, versus Hey, I’m just not having the blueberries and all the nutrition to me, I would still say go three meals a day, maybe you eat dinner at six, and you don’t eat breakfast till eight. You know, that’s a 14 hour fast. I mean, that’s plenty long enough at this point,
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly a lot. Now, again, the less sugar and carbohydrate you need, you actually need less B vitamins and less antioxidants because the more glucose and glycolysis that your body has to run, it actually requires more vitamins and more magnesium, so your nutritional needs will drop. But if you ain’t really getting enough of those nutrients in you’re still going to need some of them. Okay, so get to them. And there is important, a lot of the carnivore crew, they don’t get a lot of those nutrients. But if you’re carnivore, you’re also going to be leaning on lots of grass fed nutrients. And if you’re eating healthy, quality steaks, there’s a lot of biotech cumulated nutrition those animals are going to get from those plants. So it’s totally different if you’re eating animals that are all grain based versus ones that are more grass fed. So if you’re going to be leaning more on the keto or even carnivore side, just make sure that animal products are high quality.
Evan Brand: Yeah, one thing that some clients have said to me is that they, of course, they’re not glad that stuff is shut down in the city. But I have had some people tell me, Hey, now that I’m forced to cook meals at home, it’s actually allowing me to get into new paleo cookbooks that I’ve had sitting on the counter or try these new recipes for this grass fed steak or try, you know, cooking some brussel sprouts for the first time. So I want to try to, you know, put some positive light into this that people are with their families, hopefully at home, they’re eating more good quality food, you know, when everything is running, normally, people are running out and they just don’t think about it. I mean, even when I talk with William Shaw, you know, the head of Great Plains Lab, you know, here he is running a laboratory doing it. Vance testing, and I get him on the podcast. And I’m like, yeah, take us through your diet. He’s like, Oh, I eat out for lunch every day like no bill, don’t eat out for lunch every day. So I guess you could do Chipotle and other higher quality things. But in general, now people are cooking at home or so I’m hoping this is really encouraging people to, to focus on nutrition more. And I think it’s it’s been a real big wake up call for the general population that, hey, our health does matter. And we kind of waited for a crisis to focus on building ourselves up. But obviously, this is not the way I would want it to turn out. But it’s interesting now that people are wanting to wake up and think more about the choices they’re making on a daily basis, like, oh, maybe I don’t want that alcohol because I know that alcohol is not good for my immune system. You know, people are just starting to, to care more, which there’s got to be some good out of that.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. And then first thing is we talked about the immune system and cortisol and stress. So this video, we’re not going to go into the stats on what’s happening with Corona virus. I’ll do a video after this one where I go into the statistics of it. But let me just frame it a different way. All right? When it’s all said and done, the mortality rate of this infection is far below 1%. Number one, number 290 percent of people that get this infection are going to be asymptomatic. That means for every 10 people, or every one person that gets the infection, nine out of 10, minimum, maybe even higher. Doctor shots out of Ontario says maybe up to 20 people. So for every one person that gets it 19 to 20, are going to be asymptomatic as low as nine to 10 will be asymptomatic. That means your body got exposed to the virus, it’s maybe it’s having an immune response and you’re showing no symptoms. So in other words, there’s a 90 plus percent chance that you’re asymptomatic. And number two is, if you get sick, and you actually have symptoms, 80% of those symptoms are going to be very mild. So in other words, if you kind of look at the 90% chance, right and then you tail it with the 80 percent chance if you actually show symptoms, that’s a 98 to 99% chance that if you get this virus or get exposed to it, you’re going to virtually have very little problems addressing it, and you have a 90% chance that you won’t even know you got it. So that’s pretty awesome. So when you look at all the history and everything that’s happening on TV, you have to know those stats to begin with. And then the first thing I say is, am I doing more than 90% of the population? Or am I doing more than the 10% of the population that that’s really 10 or 20%. Out of that out of that population is getting sick? Am I doing more than 10 to 20% in regards to my immune system, and health, and I would say if you’re doing the right stuff, you’re going to be in that 99% category, for sure. Now, you’re going to see lots of anecdotes on TV of one offs of people getting sick. Number one, you don’t know their health history, too. You don’t know their diet. You don’t know what they eat. You don’t know if they have any other pre existing conditions. You don’t know any of that stuff. So the problem is, you’re not going to have access to a lot of it. And the majority of people are going to be 75. And often have multiple comorbidities like 99% of people in Italy had. So if you look at it, if I say, Oh my god, you have a 1% chance of dying, right? And you’re going to feel something. And if I say, My God, you have a 99% chance of not even having an issue at all, you also feel something with your body and your mind immune wise. So let’s flip it in our brain and look at it like from the 99% chance, and that’s not a 99% chance of living. That’s a 99% chance that if you get it, there’s no issue at all. It’s totally over your head. You don’t even know what’s going on.
Evan Brand: Yeah, and and we’ll wrap this up, because I don’t want to get too deep into this part, but I’ll do mine.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s very important, though.
Evan Brand: Yeah. Well, and yeah, and I agree with you, but what I’m going into is different and I don’t want to go off into a tailspin. But one thing that I’m noticing is that the media is focusing on Law on specific naming of people. So this celebrity has it that celebrity has it that celebrity has it. And it’s almost too, as if it’s to create, I don’t know, more fear because it’s like, oh, I know that person. They think they know that celebrity, if it’s patient 367 you’re kind of like, oh, man, that’s bad for them. But if you’re like, oh, Tom Hanks, it’s sort of, I think creates a more visceral response. But as you mentioned, Tom Hanks has diabetes. I just read an article this morning about Oh, yeah, having diabetes or being diabetic. I don’t know if he’s still fits the diagnosis or what but So, as you mentioned, just a minute ago, you lose sight of what else is going on with people. So it’s really easy to compare and think I’m a human, very human. But if they’re diabetic and their diets not good, and they’re traveling internationally, I mean, he was in like Australia, I think, you know, traveling. However many time zones to film for a movie, you can’t compare yourself and your situation to them and think that you’re just as vulnerable as them. It’s just not fair to yourself. It’s not fair to yourself to try to say, because that happened. That’ll happen to me. Because if you’re at home, you’re quarantine, you’re eating good food, you’ve got your nutrition on board, your your extra supplements on board to me. I would try not to worry unless there’s an urgent need to worry if that makes sense.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Correct. And then, you know, like you mentioned, when you go into these one off kind of anecdotes, you lose perspective. And so like I always like to give perspective because it gives you a frame of reference to go back to. So this flu season right now. We’ve had 155 pediatric deaths due to flu. How many of these pediatric deaths have been, let’s say they did a a one off story on that person dying of flu, a 15 year old or a 13 year old or a 10 year old kid dying of flu, you don’t hear any of these things with the flu. All right, and that just tells you right now, if we’re comparing our apples to apples. There is an agenda by the media, to hyper focus on this and to hysteria is the issue. If there wasn’t an agenda, show me all the photo ops of all the other kids of flu dying, show me those stories, okay, they’re not there. And the reason why they’re not there is because people are trying to create a lot more fear in general a lot more fear and also decrease, you know, the relative risk on other conditions that happen all the time that we live with. And we’re very comfortable with it happening and we know what happens, right? And that’s the whole the pediatric fluids and it’s 155 dead so far this year.
Evan Brand: Yeah, it’s not good. It’s not good. I wish I could change things. But I guess all we can do is try to help provide just a little bit of a different perspective than just the headlines. And hopefully that can help people to just get through this and we’re all in it together. Unfortunately, everybody’s affected globally. You know, we’ve got clients all around the world, Justin, I work with people in Australia and Canada and Europe, and and it’s the Same there too. So it’s not just a US thing. Now at this point, you know, everybody’s involved. So we hope to just help everybody keep your heads up and keep pushing forward.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And also with the comparison, I don’t want to minimize any of the 155, the data flu, that are pediatrics that are kids that that’s already sad, but just know all the information we’re providing today is going to help you from all conditions. It’s not like, hey, this, this supplement is going to just help you for the corona virus of the flu virus, they’re going to improve your immune system, and your immune system will be so much more intelligent and strategic and dealing with all types of immune stressors. So keep that in the back of your head. We don’t want to make light of anything but at the same time we want to compare people’s responses and those responses reveal the the emotional overdrive to get you to feel something more about this versus that.
Evan Brand: Yeah, good point about the immune support right this this podcast will still apply a year from now even if nothing in the media is like this, this this applies all the time. So it Just becomes a little more important now that you focus on this stuff. So, you know, I’ve had some clients to reporting that their their stress eating. I mean, my wife went to Whole Foods and guess what all the cookies were sold out the graham crackers, the cookies, any kind of sweet stuff, you could still get bad food to Whole Foods, it was all sold out. So, you know, even if it’s a gluten free cookie that’s still is that blood sugar metabolic stress we talked about in the beginning. So I would say do the best you can to stay dialed in this is maybe you have a cookie as a treat, but you don’t want to go off the rails too much. Because remember that metabolic stress is immune stress and immune stress weakens you we don’t want that.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. Were there any other questions? I’m sorry. You got any questions? I didn’t have them pulled up.
Yep, so in general a pull it up here. We want to be on top of our immune system. And we also talked about the reason why the fear is so important is because of the cortisol response, like you highlighted that those surges of cortisol will weaken our immune system. So the reason why I am so on top of it and you’re so on top of Because we want to have a strong immune system. And if we can reframe how things how information is exposed to us, like I mentioned, versus the 99% chance of there being no issue at all, even with the infection, then that gets us a lot more hope and that creates a different immune response.
Evan Brand: Yeah. And the cortisol affects the gut and the gut, a lot of the immune system exists or happens the immune system activity can happen from good gut health. So that’s why you don’t want that cortisol damaging that gut barrier. This why athletes after too hard of exercise and may have diarrhea, for example, you know that cortisol can be damaging on the gut.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. Yep. Exactly. And then I’ve Barb writes in about being worried about contacting her 95 year old mother, yeah, just remember, just say that six feet, you know, the corona virus doesn’t have wings, so it can’t fly. It’s an aerosolized droplet that has to make its way over there. So number one, if you’re afraid of being asymptomatic, you could always wear a mask which will decrease the spread out your mouth. For the most part, you’re only going to have a spread if you’re coughing, right, so if you’re not coughing, a man, you’re not actively sick, you’re more than likely fine, you just keep a six foot distance. And then just make sure if you’re going to interact with someone that could be immune compromised, make sure everything’s washed going in there, washed in between, don’t ever touch something. And then if you’re dealing with that person who’s who’s older, make sure they’re washing in between washing after you leave and, and maybe washing down any counters that you may be near as well. Right, but that’d be the biggest thing. And if you’re really concerned above and beyond worst case, you could you could wear a mask if you’re really concerned, but mask really gonna matter more if you’re healthcare people and you’re interacting with people more, or if you are actively coughing or have a cough that you may not be able to control, right. It’s like a cough sometimes or a sneeze, right? Sometimes that can be hard to control. So if you’re in that category where you feel like it could happen then mass may be smart if you have to interact with that person. But that six feet buffer zone will give you a lot of good things. window, I saw the data if you live in the same house as a person, you only have a 5% increased chance of contracting 5%. So it’s not that much more. And if you use good practices and you’re not sneezing, then it gets even better.
Evan Brand: Yeah, I would just say if you’re somebody who you’re having like tree pollen allergies, and everything’s blooming this time of the year right now, then, and you know, you’re going to be sneezing and you’re not sure if you’re a carrier, then yeah, I think that mass would be smart.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And ideally, if you if that’s the case, I just wouldn’t interact. That’d be even further, just to save that to until things pass. Yeah, yeah. I’ve been using a lot of Instacart for my groceries, and that’s been really helpful because they drop it off. And a couple things you can do is you can do some of the on guard, or feeds essential oil and you can dilute a little bit of that in water and just kind of spray everything. You know, they drop off your groceries, nothing’s really warm in there. You can, you can leave it in the sunlight for like an hour or two and the fresh air will typically kill any viruses as well. And a lot of times the instacart people one they’re wearing masks, and two the You’re actually wearing gloves. So they’re doing a pretty good job on their protocols for picking stuff up. Instacart is going to be a service, that they’ll do the grocery shopping for you. So they’re doing a pretty good job. But if you want to go the extra mile, that’s how you could do it on top of it, I just wouldn’t recommend leaving meats or butter or those kind of things out in the sun, obviously for you know, for common sense reasons. Right. So anything else you want to highlight, Evan?
Evan Brand: No, that’s it. Did you have any other questions that popped up that were relevant? If not, we’ll wrap it up.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: No, I mean, it’s a lot of things we could talk about in regards to the immune system and what we could do nutritionally but we’ve done other podcasts on that. So I don’t want to be a broken record. So take a look. See, there’s other podcasts for the references on what to do to boost your immune system up. And we’ll try to put some links down below as well for y’all. All right, Evan, today was great. Hey, if you guys are having immune issues, or you want to be more on the preventative side, or you’re like, Hey, you know, I want to start getting my health better. Now what better what better time then everyone being at home and having a lot more time to start working on these things? So feel free head over to EvanBrand.com, reach out to Evan. And then Dr. J myself at JustinHealth.com, feel free, you can click and schedule we’re happy to help you all out. And again, especially during this time, you don’t have to drive to a doctor’s office that could be loaded with lots of you know, flu, other viruses. And this is a great way to start moving forward while you get time.
Evan Brand: Absolutely. We work hundred percent virtually we may not mention that every time but we assume most people figure that out by listening and looking on the website. But yeah, so we send labs to your door, you do those labs, UPS or FedEx picks those up and then returns and back to the lab and then we jump on a call Skype, FaceTime, Zoom, whatever, we then review those and then we make a protocol to get you feeling better. So that’s how we work and we’re very blessed and very grateful for the opportunity and the lab so far. I’ve been doing great with turnaround times. We haven’t seen any lag or delay. We’ve got nutrients that we have stocked up on Justin and I both personally so we’ve got supply which is good. A lot of places are sold out of stuff for immune. So luckily we kind of thought a little bit ahead of the game here.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and let us know what you’re doing. comments down below if you got the dreaded Corona let me know what you’re doing with it. If you got other infections right now or you’re feeling sick, let me know your experience, what’s working what’s not. And if you enjoyed this stuff, give us a thumbs up, give us a share, let your family and friends know we really appreciate it. We want to empower everyone here.
Evan Brand: Last note, I saw that one Chinese study that came out that 80% of people that tested positive It was a false positive. So that, that’s why the scratch my head.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I don’t love the idea of the testing because it’s gonna it’s gonna create more numbers and those more numbers are going to create more hysteria, more panic. And I always tell people more numbers actually mean that the virus is actually weaker, because that means the mortality rate actually drops right? But I don’t like the idea that there’s a false positive 50 to 80% of the time. So-
Evan Brand: That’s bad at a maximum 80% false positive. I mean, that is humongous. If we just deleted 80% from the numbers of the cases, I mean, that would that would be unbelievable how different it would look-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And then how I how I interpret, that’s a little bit different. How I interpreted is, if you’re around people that could be immunocompromised or are going to be older, go through the extra precautions, whether it’s you quarantine for them. Or you go through extra measures like washing hands, which you should be doing anyway. But maybe you maybe I do gloves, maybe you want to do a mass that you recycle, just to be extra careful, I’m fine with that. Just pretend like you already have it and more for the immunocompromised, more for the elderly. But get sunlight, get some fresh air. If you can leave your house and you’re not in like New York City where things are congested, go in your backyard, get some get some fresh air, get some walk, get some vitamin D, all that stuff’s gonna be great. Don’t be cooped up inside unless you’re of that population risk factor. And you’re in a part of the country where you have to be everyone’s gonna do better getting that fresh air and vitamin D.
Evan Brand: Yeah, and we’re running on your fires like always too. So this would be another good time. If you don’t have air purification, you are trapped inside. Air Purifiers are a good strategy. So we could put some links for that as well. We’ve got a couple of recommendations.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: In our budget and our air purifiers that we’re recommending will filter out viruses. So if you’re in that area and you’re in someone’s home, right crank up that air purifier. That way it’s gonna clean everything out and less chance of getting more exposure. But again, risk factors are going to be pretty low if you’re doing all the right things.
Evan Brand: Yep. All right, check out the websites if you need help once again, Dr. J. at JustinHealth.com, me at EvanBrand.com, we’ll be in touch. Well, take care.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent everyone. You guys have a good one. Stay safe. Peace. Bye bye.
Natural ways to strengthen your immune system – Podcast #66
Dr. Justin Marchegiani and Evan Brand talk about the various natural ways we can do and supplements we can take to help boost our immune system, especially when we’re experiencing an acute illness. Find out about what you can do to enhance your immune system and stay away from illnesses. There are a lot of techniques that you’ll learn about how you can supercharge your immune system in this podcast.
Dr. Justin breaks down the different branches of the immune system to help us better understand how it works. Learn about what Vitamins A, C, and D, zinc, and silver can do for the immune system as well as what medicinal mushrooms and adaptogenic herbs can do to help.
In this episode, topics include:
5:28 Foundational info for immune health
11:48 Th1, Th2, IgA, IgG, and IgM
14:16 herbs to boost immune system
17:34 flu viruses and the flu vaccine, symptoms and viruses
24:40 nutrients and vitamins
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Evan, what’s going on today, man?
Evan Brand: Hey, not much. Just before you and I started talking I was finishing up doing the Bulletproof podcast and it was so fun. I gotta admit, man. I’m not nervous for nearly any podcast but for that one, I was a little bit like, “Oh, man, this is a big deal.”
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I’m a big fan of Dave Asprey and–and a lot of the stuff that he does. That’s great. That’s an awesome podcast to be on.
Evan Brand: Yeah, so I had fun with that so I’m–I’m in the mode of “Let’s do it today”.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s cool and also we’re gonna be at the Bulletproof conference.
Evan Brand: I know.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Pretty stoked. Are you stoked about that?
Evan Brand: Yeah, I’m excited. I’m glad I made it happen. I’m glad that you pressured me and kept staying on top me like, “You have to go. You have to go. You have to go.” Because I made it happen and we’re doing it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and we’re gonna be doing some live interviews there and just some live analysis to kinda you know give people some feedback on what’s happening and our take on things. I think we’re even gonna try Periscope, some live–
Evan Brand: I need to download it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Video streams.
Evan Brand: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, anyone wants to check me out–JustInHealth on Periscope. I haven’t done anything yet but I will soon enough.
Evan Brand: I need to download it, man. I’m behind the times.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, no doubt.
Evan Brand: Well, what did you have for breakfast today?
Evan Brand: I had some organic ground turkey that my wife made last night for Taco night, so I literally just had ground turkey and organic blue corn chips for breakfast and it was delicious. And actually I did a little bit of water with some lime juice cut and squeezed into it and it was good.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s awesome. Yeah, we did–last night we did some grass-fed meat and we cooked it up, add some spices to it, and we did some salsa and we did some guacamole as well and cut up some avocados. They were really hard but we just threw them in the VitaMix and added some little bit of salsa and lime juice to it and it was like amazing.
Evan Brand: Oh, that sounds good. I had guacamole, too, last night and it was top notch.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I use these Paleo wraps–love ‘em. They’re like just coconut meat and sea salt and we just threw some of the meat in there and it was kinda like a homemade Paleo burrito.
Evan Brand: Oh, you did–you did ground beef?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, grass-fed meat with some of the salsa and homemade guacamole, threw it in the Paleo–the Paleo wrap which is just coconut meat and sea salt, and it was great. Low sugar, you know, good fats, good proteins. Felt great afterwards. None of this corn stuff, you know, where you’re getting all bloaty and getting that cross reactive gluten stuff. We didn’t have any of that.
Evan Brand: That’s true. I–I ate corn, it was organic corn and I felt okay. So–
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, you lived. That’s good.
Evan Brand: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, if you do the corn that’s, you know, at least GMO-free and organic, it’s better. But corn is one of those things that’s highly GMO’d and–and a lot of pesticides and chemicals, but I find a lot of people, even people that are Paleo, they do better not doing corn. I mean, I will cheat every now and then with some gluten-free stuff, but 90%, 99%, I’ll try just to do the better option like that.
Evan Brand: Yeah, blue corn is the only thing I touch. I stay away from yellow corn even if it is, you know, GMO-free or organic.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, makes sense. Well, we’re gonna dive into the immune system a little bit today. I mean, it’s getting to be that time of the year. I almost got sick in the last week. I mean, my voice never really got hoarse. I just had a slight little cough but I was able to knock it out and knocked it out using some of our natural medicine, immune strategy, and I wanted to dig into the immune system today with you.
Evan Brand: Yeah, so that frog is gone for now?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, that–that frog is just me not having water and speaking for an hour at a time and needing a little bit of lubrication but I had a little bit of a cough and you know, one of the things that I’m a big fan of, any of my patients that listen know that I like the ginger tea especially for die-off reactions, where we’re adding in certain anti-microbial herbs to address any infections we may be seeing. I do couple pieces of ginger I throw in my VitaMix, add just a little bit of water to it, and then half a lime to a full lime squeeze. Don’t put the lime rind in. I learned that the hard way. It makes it way too tart and–and sour but we just do that and maybe just touch of honey in there and I just use the pulp and I put maybe an eighth of it in the bottom of the cup and then add hot water and it’s just enough and it’s really powerful. That ginger is anti-viral, too. So if you have a throat issue and you got some kinda virus that, you know, adhesing on to the–the mucosal tissue in the throat, in the mouth, that ginger can really help decrease that viral adhesion. It’s also anti-inflammatory, to not–it’s also an anti-tussin. So like, you know, Robitussin, right? Those are like anti-cough so it’s an anti-tussin so it can help relieve coughing and that–that–that urge that have that tickle in your throat and wanting to-to scratch it by coughing if you will.
Evan Brand: Yeah, I will admit there was a lady that came into the office this week that was coughing and sneezing and snotting everywhere and she was like wiping her hand–
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Gross.
Evan Brand: On her nose and then putting it on the equipment. I was a little bit paranoid. So when I came home, I did a little brew of–I had some liquid Chaga which is a mushroom, so I had the liquid Chaga, I had–I didn’t use Reishi that day. I should have. I used Chaga and then I used Matcha tea and then I just added a little bit of that Schisandra Berry powder and stirred it up and drink it, and I was like, “Oh, I think I’m gonna be okay.”
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Nice. Awesome. So you’re a big fan of the Matcha, huh?
Evan Brand: Yeah, I love Matcha. I’m actually running low right now on my supply but I had a whole salsa jar full–
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Nice.
Evan Brand: Of just straight Matcha powder.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I just like saying Matcha. It just kind of rolls off the tongue. Matcha.
Evan Brand: It makes you feel cool saying it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I know. I like it.
Evan Brand: Cool.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, let’s–let’s dive in to the immune system a little bit. We’ll go over some kind of foundational info for immune health but also some of the supplements that you can use to enhance your immune system because a lot of people, they’re so focused on the supplements but then the diet and lifestyle stuff is all messed up and it’s just like they’re just trying to like put makeup over a whole bunch of pimples. We gotta actually get to the root issue and if we do both, then we actually can significantly supercharge our immune system.
Evan Brand: Yeah, so when you say immune system to me, I mean, the first stress that I picture is blood sugar/adrenal stress that lowers the immune system. A lot of people that are eating this junk and they’re burning the kindle at both ends. They’re trying to be a CEO and run a company on the side and all of this stuff. That adrenal stress taxes the immune system and these are the people that get sick. And I’ve worked with some big wigs before in my day and I’ve seen that those people are always sick. So that’s kinda my starting point is the chronic stress picture.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I mean, stress cortisol will inhibit the immune system. It’s–it’s common knowledge that it does that. Well, people know that stress, you know, if you’re more stressed, you’re more likely to get sick, right? People know that. Well, cortisol is one of those stress hormones that’s gonna be intimately tied in to weakening the immune system. Not to mention that, blood sugar. Blood sugar issues, adding extra sugar to your diet. I did a blog post a year or two on immune function and I posted one study that showed people having a certain amount of glucose–I think it was 100 grams of glucose. They had their immune system inhibited up to 2 to 3 days. And because glucose actually looks similar to vitamin C, right? From a molecular standpoint. It’s actually a receptor site, I think of the lymphocyte, where vitamin C binds in to have an antioxidant effect. Well, glucose can actually pinch hit and bind in on that lymphocyte on that immune cell and again if we’re putting glucose in places where vitamin C should be, that’s not a good thing, and we know that glucose inhibits the immune function up to multiple days and that’s not good. So if you take a whole bunch of soda or a whole bunch of sugar, thinking you’re helping yourself out, then you’re just shutting your immune system down and then if you’re around sickies, a whole bunch of people that are sick and coughing, now you’re really compromising. Your chance of getting sick is through the roof now.
Evan Brand: Right. There’s so much we could talk about with immune function but I guess if I would keep the listeners interested, I’ll go ahead and say my first, well, I’ve talked about my first cure with the Matcha and the, you know, little bit of–
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Matcha.
Evan Brand: Raw honey. Matcha.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Matcha. I love it.
Evan Brand: So do you know–the Matcha, the Schisandra, I like a little bit of raw honey in there when possible. The next thing that I like to go to is bone broth. I had some weird throat stuff a few weeks ago. The weather went crazy. It went from like mid 70s, low 80s to 55 and rainy all day, and I felt awful and so did my wife and we were both grumpy. So we just stayed home and just sipped on bone broth and I felt incredible. I actually like to add some extra Himalayan salt to it because I like it to be salty.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I like it, too. I do the Real salt. I’m a bigger fan of the Real right now.
Evan Brand: What’s–what’s up with that one compared to just like your standard pink Himalayan?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, pink Himalayan, they come from those Himalayan–
Evan Brand: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Himalayan rocks so to speak. The Real salt comes from a–a reserve over at Redmond, Utah. I just like it. It dissolves better in the water. So I do a lot of salt in the water in the morning. So I just like how it just dissolves. It’s a little more pulverized, a little bit more finer.
Evan Brand: Oh, okay.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Just the flavor. It has a little bit more of a bite. So just for me, it just–I just like it off the tip of my tongue. I have two on my table. I have a–a Real salt and also a Himalayan. The Himalayan I have is just a little bit bigger. It probably needs to go through a grinder. But the Real salt is just right for me.
Evan Brand: Yeah, now what about–now we’re on the subject of table ornaments or spices. Do you use like an organic grounded black pepper?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, we do have one on the table. I mean, I typically just take the sea salt. My wife will add and mix some things. She’ll put some cumin on things, some turmeric on things, some–some curry on certain things. Like last night, we did a little more spices, so I kinda leave it up to her for that. I’m pretty a plain Jane when it comes to my seasoning. I just like a good clean sea salt.
Evan Brand: Yup.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Maybe some basil or some parsley from time to time, depending on what I’m eating.
Evan Brand: Yup, what do you got next? I know there’s so many directions we can go with this thing on immune system.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah so, again, your immune system, right? Well, one of the first parts of the immune system is your mucosal barrier system, right? So your throat, your nose, your ears, your eyes, all those different parts of the system. Now the throat’s like kinda one of the first places that I see inflammation happening due to like a compromised immune system. So like that tickle in your throat or that slight bit of cough or that slight bit of runniness in the nose, now your body has that reaction. It’s just trying to get it out, right? Something’s coming in, it’s trying to get it out. It’s running the nose to kinda get things out, to drain things out, so we wanna support that. We don’t wanna just take something that’s gonna just suppress the mucus. Like you know, a Mucoplex or something like that that’s kinda just turn it off. We want that mucus there initially to get things out. So that’s really important. And number two, we gotta make sure the diet’s dialed in. The sugar and stuff’s out and we gotta make sure the protein’s good because a lot of the antibodies that your immune system makes, those antibodies are protein-based. If we wanna make sure we’re getting enough good clean proteins to be able to make those antibodies.
Evan Brand: We’re gonna make you’re digesting those proteins, too, so we could almost argue that betaine could be a good immune boost in a roundabout way.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, well, making sure you’re digesting your protein is, you know, huge, because anything we don’t digest it just sits there and it rots and that creates immune stress because 70-80%–70 to 80% of our immune system is in our stomach and small intestine. It’s the GALT and in the MALT. So we gotta–we gotta know that off the bat. So make sure the diet and the lifestyle stuff stuff is dialed in. I already kinda talked about the blood sugar. I did a video on this last year so just Google Dr. Justin, JustInHealth, blood sugar, and immune system and that video will come up and I talked about that study of the 100 grams of glucose inhibiting the immune system, you know, up, over a day or so, and that’s kind of a big deal.
Evan Brand: Yes, it is.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, so on that note, let’s kinda dig in a little more to what the immune system is. So you have kinda 2 branches to the immune system. You have the Th1 which is cytotoxic part of the immune system. This is like a–if we look at the Armed Forces, this is kinda like the Navy Seals. This is like the–the Delta Force, the Army Rangers, the people that go into that area when it’s hot first. That’s the Th1 and the Th2 is the humoral. That’s the antibody-based immune system. So like the Th1 is like our CDA, like our natural killer cells. They go in there and they get at it first and then our Th2 immune system, this is like our antibodies. These are like our–the infantry or the people that come in after the fact to really provide the extra defense. Now regarding the analogy and equating it to the Army and stuff and the Navy, this is like the infantry or the–or the–the troops that come in later on. With our immune system, these are like our antibodies. IgA is a–a powerful antibody. This lines our nasal tract, our oral cavity, it lines our throat, it lines our gut, urinary tract and/or vaginal canal. So this provides a really good line of defense against invaders. So IgA is a big one. IgG is gonna be like our delayed immune reaction. This is why people tend to start getting better after about 7 days, because that IgG takes about a week to kind of mount an attack. So the IgG comes later. It’s a little bit slow getting to the fight. IgA is there a little bit more acutely and it lines all of those mucosal barrier systems, and then IgM is also another acute system as well that is a–is really important for mounting that acute attack.
Evan Brand: I’ve heard for some reason, every time I hear somebody talking about Th1 and Th2, I always hear about people that are really sick–I’ve heard this at like Paleo conferences–a lot of people are Th2 dominant as opposed to Th1. Why is that?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, people, you’re saying Th2 dominant?
Evan Brand: Yeah, every time I hear somebody talking about Th1 and Th2, everybody is like, “Oh, I’m Th2,” and they act like it’s so much, so much more of a big deal. I just don’t fully understand.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I’ve actually heard it the other way around, that it’s more Th1. Like people that are more Hashimoto’s and stuff, that’s the most common autoimmune condition, that’s Th1 dominant. But I mean, all of this–a lot of this is hyperbole to me because you have 2 branches of your immune system and the Th1 part of the immune system, this is gonna get boosted up more with like our herbs, like Echinacea, Golden Seal, medicinal mushrooms like Chaga or Reishi or Cordyceps or Coriolus, right? So like they’ll–those are more like immune stimulators, kinda so to speak. Also like Astragalus, I think I said Echinacea, Elderberry, these are more Th1. Then your Th2 stimulators tend to be more antioxidants. These are like resveratrol, turmeric, curcumin which is, you know, basically turmeric, green tea, right? More of our antioxidants tend to be more on the Th2 side. Now for me a lot of people are autoimmune and they tend to have one of their immune system branches as polarized, meaning there’s a shift. It’s either higher Th2, lower Th1 or higher Th1, lower Th2. So kind of think of it as like a seesaw. The healthier your immune system is, that seesaw is kinda in the middle. And the more unhealthy it is, one side is really up. So imagine like, a heavier person on the seesaw and then a lighter person, right? You get that major skew. The lighter person is way up in the air and the heavier person is down on the ground and vice-versa. So we wanna keep balance. So looking at things if you’re sick, I don’t really put that into account. I don’t really take the Th1 or Th2 into account that much. My goal is if someone’s starting to get sick, I want the Th1 system to get revved up because that’s really the acute system that’s getting the–the Navy Seals, the Delta Force, the Army Rangers out to mount an attack. And conventional medicine pretty much ignores the Th1 immune system, right? Vaccines don’t work off Th1, they work off Th2. They make antibodies, right? That’s the protective, you know, the protective so-called antibodies that you get from vaccinations, but Th1, you don’t get any Th1 benefit from vaccinations and actually, there’s research that say that like that seesaw, right? That vaccination may actually upregulate that Th2 and what happens to the seesaw if one side’s going up really high? The Th1 can go down on the other side. So–
Evan Brand: Yeah, and sickness occurs.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and again, you want that Th1. You want your–your Navy Seals ready to go. So that’s why I’m a big fan of medicinal mushrooms and some of these herbs that either stimulate the immune system or they can actually help provide killing of the bacterial or viral–viruses that are coming in there like, for instance, the polysaccharides and the triterpenes in some of the mushrooms like Reishi can deactivate viruses. That’s powerful. Taking like a colloidal silver can be a really good viral killer, right? Those are really nice and then some of the things like astragalus can actually improve Th1, also improve your B cell production as well. Echinacea as well. So again that’s why the herbs are powerful because they really take into account the Th1 branch of the immune system that conventional medicine totally ignores.
Evan Brand: Yup. Yeah, I knew it didn’t change our action plan in terms of understanding Th1, Th2 necessarily but I’m glad that you were able to clear that up because it gets confusing quick when you dig deep into the inner workings. But then when you zoom out and you say, “Oh, we need these herbs and these mushrooms.” That’s–people are like, “Oh, thank God, it’s simple.”
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And again, looking at like the flu vaccine, I’m not a fan of that flu vaccine. There’s been some research on it. The Cochrane Collaborative did a full study on this, a meta-analysis, and the study was done by Dr. Thomas Jefferson. I always remember his name because he’s like a president, right?
Evan Brand: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: But he–he did the study a–a while back looking, I think, at 15 different meta-analyses and I’ll read the conclusion here in just a second, but really it was–it’s found ineffective and the take home message was that I’d say about 90, upwards of 85 to 90% of people that get flu-like symptoms, they aren’t actually even caused by the flu. They’re caused by other viruses that mimic flu-like symptoms. The paramyxovirus, adenovirus, rhinovirus, etc. So most people that think they get the flu, they really have some kinda other virus. So now if a vaccine is specific to a strain of flu and they figure out what strain to use by looking at what strain of flu hits the Asian countries because they’re one season ahead of us and 70% of the time, they get it wrong, I mean, you really have a small percent of chance that they even get the right flu virus, but then what if you get exposed to one of these viruses that’s not even the flu, right? You’re not gonna be protected, but the nice thing about these herbs is it’s non-specific. It’s not like, well, this is good for only this infection. It’s good for boosting your immune system and things like silver are anti-viral just generally speaking, which is great.
Evan Brand: I’ve been astragalus for the last 3 or 4 months just because and I feel–I feel great from it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, astragalus is great.
Evan Brand: It’s not–it’s not–it’s not extravagant in terms of how I feel but I just feel–I feel sustainable in terms of my health. You know how sometimes you can just feel yourself like, “God, I’m really burning myself out. This is not good.” You know it’s not good inside of you, but you’re still pushing because you’re growing your business or whatever it is. I haven’t felt that way. I felt like, “Huh. I’m okay right now. I’m not the Titanic. I’m–I’m gonna make it to the other side of the ocean.”
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, absolutely. And just reading the study here on the flu vaccine, the author’s conclusion there–Thomas Jefferson was influenza vaccines have a very modest effect in reducing influenza symptoms and working days lost in the general population including pregnant women, and no evidence of association between influenza vaccination and serious adverse offense was found in comparison,” and they looked at 90 studies. So again, really insignificant regarding its effects on helping people with the flu.
Evan Brand: Yup.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, so that’s important for me because we wanna upregulate people’s immune function. So let’s kinda run down a couple of things off the bat. We talked about medicinal mushrooms. I’m a big fan of Reishi. I also like Cordyceps. Chaga is good. Coreolus is good. These are some good ones. I’m switching right now from Reishi to Cordyceps because of its adaptogenic adrenal effects. So I’m just switching here. So the next one–
Evan Brand: Now let me ask you this.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: Let me interrupt you here. Are you noticing any serious energy improvement? Because I know cortisol is typically used a lot for endurance athletes and I know the Chinese were using it during the Olympics and that was one of their secrets. Do you notice a significant energy yourself? Because I–I personally haven’t.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You haven’t noticed?
Evan Brand: Not like extreme. I mean, I’ve only been taking it here for a couple of days but I know it’s probably a bit more of like a tonic effect. What–what do you notice from specifically?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, with the–the mushrooms, I mean, I notice more of a tonic effect. I know the research on it is robust, especially in these Asian countries, they do–it’s–it’s part of the culture a lot of times. So they’ve done a lot of research on it and I understand the research. I mean, I have a book right in front of me on my desk. I’ll show it up on the Skype. It’s called The Health Benefits of Medicinal Mushrooms and it talks about how to restore immune function, improve outcomes of serious illnesses, cancer, kidneys, liver health. I mean, I’m looking at studies here where they’re citing like using some of these herbs to help organ transplants, right? I mean, this is powerful stuff. I mean, in this country, we just use immune suppressive drugs and corticosteroids, right? But in other countries, they’re using a lot of these mushrooms. So I don’t notice a huge benefit just in general but if I do get sick, I never get sick, and when I do, I recover super fast. I never have to take a day off work or seeing my patients. So that’s a good thing and you know, I operate at a high level. So my goal is to keep operating at that high level. So it’s hard to notice a big difference when you’re already at that high level.
Evan Brand: Right. I know. It’s kinda like you’ve broken the meter already, so if you come back down into the meter’s range, you may feel something but otherwise, you’re not.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and I wanted to just come back to that flu vaccine thing. I’m gonna read you that part of the study. This was profound for me. It said, “Over 200 viruses can cause influenza. At best, the vaccines may only be effective against influenza A and B which only represent about 10% of all circulating viruses.” So that’s big because annually the World Health Organization estimates which viral strain should be included in the next seasons. It’s kinda like, I said, they use the Asian countries to–to predict. So you can see only 10% of those viruses are actually gonna be the flu-like viruses.
Evan Brand: That’s–that’s crazy.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I know it is. So getting back to the immune system, we talked about medicinal mushrooms, so I think you can’t go wrong with Reishi. I like something that’s at least 4% standardized triterpene, you know, the extract at least 4% triterpene content, at least 10% polysaccharide. That’s the–
Evan Brand: Are you doing capsule?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I like–I like the capsule. Yep, I do.
Evan Brand: I’ve been using–
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Any comments on the mushrooms at all?
Evan Brand: I’ve been using Aloha Medicinal for them. Now I know that they do grow some of their stuff on sorghum, I believe.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.
Evan Brand: I can’t remember specifically, but they–they have an organic mushroom operation. It’s just always such a debate. You hear so much crap in the mushroom world of quality and, “Oh, mine’s wild-crafted,” and it’s just–it’s hard to find good quality but I’ve had great results so far with that one.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s great, really good.
Evan Brand: What do you use?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I use a couple. I use some by MycoHerb. I like MycoHerb a lot. Mushroom Science is one. I think it’s JBL. Their–their private practitioner line from Mushroom Science. Really good. Really good mushrooms. I like Myco–Myco Sci–MycoHerb right now. They’re out at Santa Cruz. They’re a really good company. I like them, too.
Evan Brand: Now is that a liquid? I think I’ve seen that one.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: No, that one is a capsule.
Evan Brand: Oh, okay.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.
Evan Brand: Maybe I’m thinking of another thing that you’ve told me about before. I think–
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, there’s another one by a company. David Winston’s company, Herbalist & Alchemist. It’s called Seven Precious Mushrooms. That’s a liquid extract that’s really powerful, too.
Evan Brand: That–that sounds awesome.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, that’s a good one, too. But mushrooms are a great, you know, resource to all to your medicine cabinet. Now nutrients, too, like Vitamin C is a real powerful nutrient. Anywhere between, you know, 4,000 to 8,000 milligrams or 4 to 8 grams is powerful. Typically, you can just go up to bowel tolerance. It’s a pretty good standpoint when you tap out your vitamin C reserves. You just get loose stools kinda like with magnesium and that can be powerful because that Vitamin C docks on to our receptor site right in that lymphocyte. It helps it gobble up more of those bacteria or crud more efficiently.
Evan Brand: Yeah, and I say if you’re gonna go with Vitamin C, do you use a mixed form that’s gonna have your calcium–
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Flavanoids–
Evan Brand: And ascorbates–
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: Your flavonoids, your magnesium ascorbate, things like that.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, like an Ester-C or a good bioflavonoid mix with the hesperidin and the rutin, and the–the–the acerola extract. I carry one on my site that’s–that’s very good, too.
Evan Brand: Cool. Awesome.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Next, let’s dig in. Zinc is really powerful. Again, 50 mg of zinc a day can be good. I mean, if you’re eating really good Paleo nutrients, good animal products, some nuts and seeds and such, maybe even some oysters. I mean, those can be phenomenal sources of zinc. Again, you can always do a zinc tally test. We’ve talked about this before. A zinc tally test is, I think it’s zinc chloride or zinc sulphate, one of the two. It’s one of the liquid–
Evan Brand: I think sulphate, yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Zinc sulphate. You take a shot of it. It’s really cool when you go to Paleo parties. You do your shot of zinc sulphate. Yeah, but there’s no real buzz with it. But the overall goal is that you just see how good it taste, how good or bad it taste. The–the more, the faster it tastes better, the more zinc deficient you are. The faster it tastes tart or sour or metallic, the less you need.
Evan Brand: I–I’ve told people that it tastes furry when you drink zinc before.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, it can taste furry like you’re chewing on like a copper wire or something.
Evan Brand: Yeah, yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: I–I’ve had it before where I’ve been so deficient where it tasted just like water until I swallowed it and then I started to taste it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: So I’ve definitely had a history of zinc deficiency.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, when we go out to the Bulletproof Conference, we’ll have to pre-game with our zinc sulphate to get ready. What do you think?
Evan Brand: Sounds good.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, the zinc’s a real powerful one. Zinc’s important for the immune cells. It’s important for hydrochloric acid. It’s an important precursor for sex hormones. So I like zinc. Vitamin A is also very important. Dr. Jonathan Trites lectured on vitamin A as–as an anti-viral benefit. And we do liquid vitamin A with patients that are, you know, have a viral infection and we can combine it with vitamin C as well.
Evan Brand: To me, I–I also always stress on the importance of vitamin D. The average American is in the mid 20s or 30s anyway with their vitamin D level because they’re inside and they cover up their skin too much. So always wanting that vitamin D level minimum 50, I like 70. If you have cancer or something like that, then you should be even higher but vitamin D is so important and I think that’s part of the reason why people get sick in the winter because that level gets even low, lower than it already is. It’s already dangerously low–
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: In most people.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’m gonna do a shot of vitamin D right now, while you’re–while you’re talking about it, Evan.
Evan Brand: I’m guessing–
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: But–
Evan Brand: You’re gonna be taking 5,000 IU right now.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’m probably gonna be taking about 30,000.
Evan Brand: Oh, wow.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, it’s 2,000 a drop. It’s my Emulsify vitamin D, that’s 2,000, so I do like about 10 drops, about 20,000 units. But I’m ready. My immune system is revved up. One of the protocols I give my patients for acute vitamin D dosage is we’ll actually do a thousand units, thousand IUs per pound of body weight for up to 3 days. So for myself, I’m 200 pounds. So I would do 200,000 IUs which, you know, for that I think that’s–that would be, see here, 2,000 divided by 200, so that’s about like, do the math, that’s a hundred drops. So you do that over the course of a day, do that for 3 days in a row, and that really revs up your immune system because vitamin D upregulates this anti-microbial peptide known as ca–cathelicidin. Say that 3 times fast.
Evan Brand: I don’t think I can say it one time fast.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I know. And that the anti-microbial peptide and it–it can gobble up viruses and gobble up intruders.
Evan Brand: Yeah and–
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s also–yeah, go ahead.
Evan Brand: I wanted to interrupt you because you did the–the good way. You did the tincture for people that, you know, were not recording these videos. Maybe we should.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That we will soon.
Evan Brand: Alright, so you did the liquid. Now if you to your conventional mainstream health educator, they’re gonna give you–if they ever even consider giving you vitamin D, they’re gonna give you a little crappy tablet that has so many fillers and binders–
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 50,000–
Evan Brand: It’s 50,000–yeah, it’s garbage.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Vitamin D2, it’s ergocalciferol, not cholecalciferol. They synthesize it via lanolin in the lab, right? The vegetarians and vegans love it, but it’s–it’s not–because it’s not animal-based but again, it’s not the natural vitamin D3 you get from outside. And just to be clear, vita–getting sunlight vitamin D is even better because you get all these different–these other vitamin D compounds that come along with the pre-vitamin D3 that’s made on your skin. But let’s face it, it’s just not gonna be practical in the fall. It’s not gonna be practical in the winter months. So we gotta have another strategy so vitamin D3, liquid; I like MCT-based vitamin D3. That’s super helpful and that also helps increase the T regulatory cells and the T regulatory cells, they kinda come in there and like balance out the Th1 and Th2. They come in there and they have like a modulatory effect. So we talk about adaptogens a lot, helping to modulate stress and immune function. Well, think of vitamin D as a modulator on your immune system, on that Th1 and Th2 seesaw.
Evan Brand: Uh-huh. Actually, I’ve seen at Now Foods, they have a vitamin D that’s a cholecal–calciferol.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: That’s from lanolin, so apparently now they can make D3 from it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, wow. Interesting. Yeah.
Evan Brand: It comes with a vol–extra virgin olive oil.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Huh. Got it.
Evan Brand: As the filler, if you will, for the soft gel.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s better than–than most.
Evan Brand: Yup.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I like that. So vitamin D is really important. Vitamin C is really important. Vitamin A is really powerful. I mean, you can do up to 75,000 units of vitamin A and 6-8 grams of vitamin C is really powerful pack that you can do if you get sick acutely. I like that one. The Vitamin D at that acute dose of 100,000–I should say 1,000 units per pound of body weight for 3 days is powerful as well. We talked about the medicinal mushrooms. Silver is great. I’ll anywhere between a teaspoon, you know, 3-6 x a day to help knock out any viruses and I’ll even gargle with it and hold it in my throat if a bit if this–my throat’s feeling a little icky to help clean out maybe infectious debris that’s kind of bound on to the mucosal tissue. I like that. Anything else you wanna touch upon for the listeners?
Evan Brand: Well, the adaptogens, there was talk about the mushrooms and stuff can be–be considered adaptogens. But if you’re taking something that’s gonna take the load off of your adrenal glands, it’s a side effect that’s gonna boost your immune system, too. So when I–
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Cordyceps.
Evan Brand: Yeah, so when I start feeling like crap. If I’m taking say some mushrooms, I may add in something else to that such as Rhodiola. I really enjoy it just because sometimes the winter months in general are just depressing with that lack of bright light, so I like the mild anti-depressant effect from Rhodiola but then I feel a good endurance boost just overall for life’s vitality.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I totally agree. I’m a huge fan of adaptogens as you’ve known, I’ve gotten on this soap box many times. I mean, right now, I’m–I’m on a combination adaptogens with Rhodiola.
Evan Brand: What did you take today?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: A combo. Rhodiola, ginseng, eleuthero, and ashwagandha.
Evan Brand: Cool.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: My–my basic combo. Some days I’ll focus on one of the other, I mean, I love it. Life’s just a little better with an adaptogen and I can deal with stress a little bit better, too.
Evan Brand: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So adaptogens, I think, are–are powerful. And in my blog article back, it–a couple years ago called Why You Keep Getting Sick and How To Boost Your Immune System–we’ll put that in the show notes–that’s a powerful article that kinda gives you all the nuts and bolts what we’re talking about today. So on that note, the next thing I would do is astragalus. Astragalus is really awesome herb and I do that, you know, 3 to 4 hundred milligram capsules and I’ll do that every hour or two when I’m acutely sick to really upregulate my immune system. I’ve been well.
Evan Brand: Yeah, I’ve been using–I’ve been using Lucky’s Market. It’s very rare for people to have Lucky’s Market near them but they have a great private labeled organic astragalus that I’ve–I feel great benefits from. So that’s what I’m taking.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, that’s a really good one, too. We talked about the ginger tea. We talked about the mushroom, the silver. Echinacea. Echinacea angustifolia is great. Huge fan of that. That’s a–has a really good immune-boosting benefit. And again I like the purpurea part as well as the angustifolia part. I do both, because Echinacea also ha–has many different kinds. So I do the aerial and root parts. Both because you get a lot of the active benets–benefits in the root, in the purpurea part. So just be mindful of that. Make sure you get one that’s powerful amount of alkaloids. The alkaloids are like the active compounds so you wanna make sure the alkaloids are higher and then make sure it’s purpurea re–roots, not just the Echinacea angustifolia, especially the flower, that’s not gonna have as much active components.
Evan Brand: Yup. I think that–
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Anything else?
Evan Brand: Covers it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Alright.
Evan Brand: I think that’s a great summary of immune support.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, so what’s the take away. So if someone’s like, “Crap, Evan and Justin, you just went over my head, you guys talk too much, you bored me out. I’m–I’m 25-30 minutes in, what’s the take home? Like, what would I do here?” I would say for–my take on things off the bat would be, just cut the sugar and the crap out of your diet and make sure that’s good. If you’re under a lot of stress, do your best to modulate the stress or get some sleep, too, because that immune system requires a lot of rest and that’s part of the reason why when you get tired–or when you get sick, you get tired because the immune system is sucking up a lot of energy. So if you get tired, when you’re sick, listen to your body. Get an extra couple of hours of sleep that will allow your immune system to recharge and then on top of that and you got the diet and the lifestyle, you’re adding some protein, you’re adding some bone broth, take a look at 2 or 3, maybe even 4 of the supports that we talked about. Vitamin D and vitamin C, I think, are a really good staple. And then pick an herb or a mushroom and add that in at a therapeutic level and really get your immune system upregulated.
Evan Brand: I have nothing to add. That was great.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You gotta add something.
Evan Brand: Alright, let me add something. Do some bone broth. If you’re scared of putting capsules in your mouth, which sometimes if you don’t do the research and you just take something because we told you to, I wouldn’t do that. Definitely do your own homework and stuff first and look into these things. But everybody could go to the store and buy pre-packaged organic free-range bone broth now. It’s available for like $2, the brand Pacific. They even have a bison bone broth. It’s amazing. I haven’t–I haven’t had it yet, but it’s amazing that that exist and I bought some and I have it in the pantry, so I might do that today. That’s the next thing. Do the bone broth and–and keep up with it. Good glutamine, other different nutrients inside of there. It’s–
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, lot of glycine.
Evan Brand: G–
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Lot of glycine, too.
Evan Brand: It’s real food, just stick with the real food.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And there’s nothing better than like curling up on a couch with little bit of bone broth and little sea salt on there and just sippin’ it. Man, it’s just like–like heaven on Earth.
Evan Brand: It’s meditative, that’s for sure.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, totally. Like I did a little ginger tea before bed last night, that was very like restorative for me, but tonight, I think I’m–I’m inspired now to do the bone broth tonight.
Evan Brand: That’s cool. You just need a little furry bunny blanket now.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: One of those Huggies, right?
Evan Brand: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it. Cool. Alright, Evan. Great talk. Hope everyone enjoyed listening at home and we’ll back next week.
Evan Brand: Alright, take care.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Thanks.
Evan Brand: Bye.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Bye.