Chronic and Acute Nausea Root Causes | Podcast #295
For this episode, Dr J talks about Chronic and Acute Nausea causes. Dr. J with Evan Brand share their experience with nausea, and how they treat it for themselves as well as to their thousands of patients around the world. Get to know some Anti microbial herbs that you can take, as well as the acupressure points. More information below.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani
In this episode, we cover:
0:25 Anti Nausea Medications
3:59 Stress and Infections
10:50 What is Nausea
15:51 Root Causes to Nausea
18:48 Anti Microbial Herbs
23:35 Emotional Freedom Technique
24:14 Acupressure Points
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We are live. It’s Dr. J here in the house with Evan brand. Today we’re going to be talking about the root causes of nausea. Again, because we are clinicians, this isn’t going to be just a symptomatic type of cover up. We want to actually get to the root cause and because we have so much experience with it, we’re going to be sharing with the All Things that have worked with our own personal cells as well as our thousands of patients. So Evan, let’s dive in How you doing today, man?
Evan Brand: Doing really well excited to dive into this topic that conventional medicine doesn’t have much to offer. They may put you on like Dramamine if you’ve got some kind of nausea issue, but it doesn’t go much further than that. Maybe as Oh, Fran, in the conventional medicine world, you know, I’ve had clients that have had gut issues and mood issues and major nausea. If it’s been an extreme situation, they’ll go into the ER and they’ll say, Oh my god, I have the worst nausea of my life and what do they do? They put them on zofran. A drug which is an anti nausea drug and it works. It is effective. But then they send him home and they said, Oh, you must have just had an anxiety attack and you know, for your gut symptoms, you need to go see a gastroenterologist because I don’t know what’s going on there. So then they go to the GI doc the GI doc doesn’t say much about nausea besides possibly giving a prescription or maybe an acid blocker or something else. So it’s not really it’s not pretty and so many people out there suffering, but I’ll just tell you my story and then we’ll get into some of the clinical pearls too, which is that when I had h pylori and parasite issues, man, my nausea was terrible. I was telling you before I press four, we press record here live, man, I tell you not only did I lose weight, but I had no appetite or my appetite would swing or some days I’m really hungry and other days I couldn’t eat anything and it’s just because I had this baseline nausea going on. And h pylori, I can do it to you. So I don’t know if that’s the this is in no particular order. So I don’t know if that’s the top number one cause but I would say it’s definitely in the top three clinic H pylori infection, which is a bacteria that damages your parietal cells, and it reduces your stomach acid levels, just that reduction of stomach acid alone can cause that nausea, but also, your gut lining can get irritated it can get inflamed from the bacteria, and that can further the nausea.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. 100%. And a lot of these anti nausea medications, they kind of work on the histamine receptor, right? They’re like an h1 blocker h2 blocker or an h3 blocker. Is that correct?
Evan Brand: That’s right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, so a lot of those medications are going to have a anti kind of serotonin type of effect. So what does that mean? Right? Anytime we have issues with histamine, almost always there’s going to be some level of inflammation brewing, right? Anytime histamine becomes a problem, think of your inflammation bucket is being overwhelmed or overflowing. So now we have to really get to the root cause of why that is so you know, palliated wise, you could do an anti histamine if it’s an every now and then thing, but if it’s a chronic thing well now the question is why and that’s where we’re just trying to take the conversation and go deeper to the root cause versus just talk about the palliative symptom cover up. Plus, not to mention a lot of anti histamine medications, they have a lot of fatigue and cognitive issues as a side effect. So that’s not really a good long term solution for a lot of people anyway.
Evan Brand: Yeah, it’s just not sustainable either. Now, unlike my grandfather, I know he would when he would go on a plane he would take like a Dramamine which would, which would help the plane nausea, but what was causing the bucket to be so full so you’ve alluded to histamine? I think it’s a huge piece of the puzzle. Why does histamine become an issue though? I would say SIBO, intestinal bacterial overgrowth with histamine producing bacteria what other things would you say are putting in the histamine bucket? Are you talking like, you know, high histamine foods that are putting in the bucket along with the microbes? Are you thinking those are the two big factors that are filling up the bucket or what else.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So definitely Just stress from all different areas. So being a functional medicine doctor, you have to be really good at being a stress detective. So what does that mean? That means we’re looking at physical, chemical and emotional stressors. And we’re looking at those stressors and how they accumulate. So if I deal with someone and we hate what’s going on in your life, right now, when did everything start, I’m like, oh, there’s a divorce going on. Oh, there’s a significant move or an upheaval in the family. Okay, that’s something we’re going to make a note on right. Now, a lot of times, you can’t fix some of that you can just make sure they have support or you know, recommend a good counselor or someone else to make sure that that issue is being supported and being processed in a healthy fashion. But we have to make sure now health is even higher, when there’s lots of stress. So when someone’s stressed, we have to make sure diet is really good, amazingly anti inflammatory, nutrient dense kind of low toxin paleo template, really important. We have to make sure because of that nausea, do we have poor enzyme and acid secretion, so a lot of times that’s part of the stress responses, you have low enzyme and acid secretion. And so then when you eat food Do you feel more nauseous, you feel worse because of all that stress and inflammation, inhibition of enzymes and acids. So then we have to really make sure we can actually digest and break down our foods. People think that’s a given, oh, I’m eating a healthy paleo template. I’m going to have good digestion because my food’s Great. Well, maybe not. So we have to make sure the common sense things are in place. Are we chewing our food? Well, are we hydrating with food? Right, hydration with food may not be the best unless it’s a couple ounces of water to get down pills. And then the third thing is, are we taking enough acids and enzymes and maybe even bile salts because we know not enough bile? and not being able to break down fat can also be a nausea issue. Right? gallbladder issues are a big one. We see that with pregnant women, right? high levels of HCG and poor fat digestion can easily create a nausea environment there too.
Evan Brand: Yeah, well said and the infections too. So if you’re trying to get to the root cause of the root cause it’s like okay, low acid. Low enzymes why well, the H. pylori could be one factor, parasites, various bacterial overgrowth, so you always have to address those infections, and maybe your infection free, which would be pretty rare and awesome, but age alone can also do this. So after age 20, we’ve talked about him many times, but Dr. Wright’s book why stomach acid is good for you. Age 30, age 40, age 50, age 60. enzymes and acids are going to go down every year, but of course, majorly every decade. And so by the time you’re 60 70, if you’re not taking supplemental acids and enzymes, we’re going to quantify this too, right? When you say we need to make sure you have adequate digestion. You’re not just saying, Hey, here’s some enzymes, we’re going to be looking at an organic acids, we’re going to be looking at a stool panel, we’re going to look at gut inflammation, we’re going to look at stouter crit, which is a fecal fat marker. We’re going to look at pancreatic elastase. We’re going to look at the neurotransmitters. We’re going to look at the amino acid metabolites, how are people digesting so there’s a ton of data by Behind this, we don’t just say you have bad digestion, here’s a supplement. It’s no, you have bad digestion. Let me show you on paper. Here’s the infections, reducing the enzymes. That’s the first domino. And then here’s the inflammation from the mal absorb food that’s further affecting your gut barrier. And then three, here’s your amino acids. They’re crap because you’re not digesting your proteins. Now, here’s the protocol. So it’s not just bad digestion, nausea enzyme there, there’s more to it behind, you know, behind the scenes
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 110% 100% agree so we have to get to the underlying issue. Now there’s some natural things that can help right. Lemon juice is a really nice one right? Why does lemon juice help? Well, lemon juice has acid in there so I think lemon juice Prime’s the digestive tract to make more acid and help better break down the food. Number two ginger now I have ginger part of my ginger tea kind of recipe protocol my patients know this is something that I recommend across the board. board. So when we had killed doing a lot of killing or we have a lot of stomach upset ginger number one can calm down the guts of the guts inflamed, it can calm that down, which can help better digestion helped move along motility and calm down the inflammation. Ginger also has a natural anti nausea side benefit, safe to take if you’re a pregnant woman too, by the way, but it really helps with nausea from a natural perspective. So we love that because it’s going to really help calm down the inflammation, which is part of the root cause but also help with the nausea so we don’t have to be on a Dramamine or zofran or some kind of an h1, h2, or even h3, anti nausea medication, which may only have side effects. So those are a couple of natural things we can dive in and go deeper as well. Peppermint is also a great one. Canna meal is a great one guess what peppermint kameel ginger, guess what their natural digestive bitters. So part of how they work is they’re going to help your digestive system work better in regards to secreted enzymes. an acid which is very powerful, and a lot of those oils have anti inflammatory benefits. So reducing inflammation and increasing digestive secretions is part of, you know, a good palliative solution. We can talk deeper because you kind of alluded to SIBO and maybe you’re in the past when you have H. pylori that cause nausea. So if we’re just doing HCL enzymes and ginger and not getting to the root cause it’s still a palliative fix, but better than a medication because it doesn’t have all the side effects
Evan Brand: True and I think it was probably the Giardia, too, right. We know the Giardia can be an issue with the gallbladder. If you just look up grd a gallbladder there’s a huge connection there and that was probably part of my fat digestion issues as well. So even after I cleared out the H pylori, you know, there were some parasites that I was still dealing with. So that could have been part of my nausea as well. You and I were talking about a guy earlier. client of mine in his early 20s, who has had constant nausea. He described it as 24 seven nausea for several years. Conventional doctors can up on him, he sought out my help. I told him and this is what we do as practitioners sometimes we’ll say, hey, look, I don’t know the exact number one end all be all puzzle piece to this issue. But I’m going to run you through looking into these body systems. We found some infections, we found a lot of mold. And I’m like, hey, look, fingers crossed. This is gonna work. We made a really good protocol. And now six months later, he’s 99% better, and there’s no more nausea so much that when we do a follow up call now I’m like, hey, do you have any complaints or concerns? Nope. And I’m like, Oh, well, did you forget when you first came to me you had nausea 20 470 Yeah, I remember it’s gone. I’m like yay. Because sometimes going in you and I were talking about the importance of foundation so so let’s hit that real quick because people don’t get to enjoy our pre recording chat. But what-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I wanted to just was just the time and I wanted to just define nausea. Someone in the in the live video kind of say, What’s nausea? Well, nausea is that queasy kind of upset feeling in your stomach. It’s kind of you You may get a little bit dizzy. It’s that in between of puking and vomiting. But you’re kind of just feel like your tummies upset. You feel queasy, you feel a little bit dizzy. You feel about ready to to puke, but not quite there.
Evan Brand: I’m sure everyone’s experienced nausea at one point. Yeah,
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think everyone has for sure.
Evan Brand: Yeah, but so so with this guy, which can happen with nausea. And it did happen with nausea. I didn’t know on paper. You know, looking at the labs, we saw some issues, but I didn’t have a number one smoking gun that I was convinced was the root cause of his nausea. But we went through the foundation’s getting the diet in order addressing the infections using binders to pull out mold and other toxins. And hey, look, he got better. It’s amazing. So there are certain cases where we may have symptoms that sound weird, or maybe we don’t have the end all be all smoking gun right in front of us. But we’re gonna run, run you through the system address these body systems. And there’s so many things that just happened. Have you seen that where you kind of say that the symptom improvement is a side effect of getting healthy? It’s like hey, Yeah, we made you healthy and your issue went away.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: The problem with conventional medicine is they give you a drug that may help with that side effect or help with that issue, but then the side effect may be worse, where we’re going after something, something totally different. Right and H pylori infection or not enough stomach acid from SIBO. And then the side of benefit is the nausea goes away. So this is what happens when you go upstream and you deal with system issues. Symptoms downstream manifests when you treat symptoms by themselves downstream with medications, then you have more symptoms that happen from the medication called side effects. And so that’s the difference between when you get to recall stuff versus symptom care.
Evan Brand: Yeah, yeah. And the peppermint man, I’m glad you brought up peppermint. I drink my bodyweight in peppermint. When I add H. pylori. My gut was just raw. I was doing some dgl I was doing glutamine. I was doing other gut healing nutrients which we can talk about now. I think that could be part of the palliative care with nausea. The you mentioned kameel already but the glutamine, the aloe, so Like the gut soothing nutrients, we did a whole podcast on that. Go check it out, early July, top seven nutrients to heal your gut. A lot of that stuff could could actually help with nausea too. So there may be some overlap, but it’s always working backwards. So number one thing, get your stool looked at number two thing, get your urine looked at number three, I’d say get your environment looked at this guy. This young guy, he had tons of mold in his bedroom. So we actually had him start burning some of the candles that we have some mold candles and then doing the Mr. In his bedroom, and we retested his plates in his petri dish that previously looked very moldy indicating had a lot of colonies growing in his room. We retest the petri dish and it looked much better. So for him, I do believe there was an environmental component as well. So when you’re working with the practitioner, hopefully they’re addressing all these root cause body issues, but in some cases, it could be an environmental issue. I had a lady who lived with her mother, and her mother was always burning candles and somehow the candle was making her nausea so she swapped out the candle for an essential oil one got rid of the synthetic fragrance and the nausea went away. So some people are going to have nausea from smells whether it’s car exhaust or cigarette smoke or perfume or deodorant, you know, the chemically sensitive people out there. Nausea can come from those chemical sensitivities. So if you’re not already addressing your body care, your skincare, any hair products, soaps, shampoos, laundry detergent, dryer sheets, you know going free and clear go unscented or essential oil based with all those products that could also improve nausea.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes, 110% 110% I think we’re on the right on the right track always trying to get to the root cause someone wrote in would you suggest giving lemon or ginger if someone’s on a histamine diet, I think it’s worth it. If anything that can help stimulate digestive support is great. Typically I’m going to come in there with enzymes and acids off the gecko because that really helps. Of course right there. If you want something more at home, you can do the ginger an apple cider vinegar or lemon juice, that’s fine. If not, we’re going to use Use our own digestive support. I think that’s a really, really good first start. Because if you improve digestion, that makes a big difference. Now, testing, we’re going to do some deeper stool testing to get to the root cause of what’s happening and see if there’s an H. pylori infection. If there’s a cebo infection, we’re going to run some organic acids, we’re going to look at gut bacteria and yeast in the urine. So we’re always trying to get to the root cause. But then we have these palliative things that are up our sleeve with the ginger and the B six and peppermint and our gentle kind of common meal and Swedish bitters.
Evan Brand: Yeah, I love the gut healing herbs. You can use them if you don’t know what’s going on. But hopefully just by clearing infections, nausea is going to get much much better.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent. That’s really good, man. we’re on the right track here. Anything else you wanted to highlight here for me root cause perspective in regards to nausea?
Evan Brand: Well, I’ve had many, many clients get their gallbladder removed, and now they’re just in really bad shape. They’ve got constant nausea, and these People that and this is not to make me sound good. This is just a reality. But if they would have come to me before they got the gallbladder out, hopefully we could have saved their gallbladder by removing infections, increasing bile salts, things like that to save the gallbladder before it became to a crisis level where they had an emergency gallbladder removal, but it’s a huge, huge problem, the gall bladders removed because, you know, you’re still going to be producing bile. You’re just not going to be able to store it and concentrate it and so, you know, people that are going on paleo or keto or high fat diets, they’re like, Well, why am I so freakin nauseous now? I thought paleo was the answer. Their autoimmune paleo Why am I so nauseous? Well, if you don’t have a gallbladder, you’re your disadvantage. So you’re going to need a little more help than the average person with the digestive piece.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I 100% agree. I got sick last year, up in Boston in the north end that was at an Italian restaurant, I ordered a steak and I really felt nauseous and I think I got food poisoning or a gut infection. And it was a Friday night and I was just nauseous until I got back home. Monday morning and when I got back the first thing I did was I hit my gi Claire for and within 30 minutes the nausea was gone.
Evan Brand: What’s in there?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: GI Claire 4 had a lot of berberine a lot of goldenseal and a lot of burdock birdbox. Excellent for the limp. But as soon as it hit my tummy, I felt 1000 times better. And so there was probably some kind of a food poisoning or some kind of a microbe in the gut. That was really triggering a lot of that nausea like receptor site activation, whether it was a histamine or an inflammation issue. It was really driving that but my giac therefore made a huge difference. I was doing a lot of ginger and apple cider vinegar drinks. So that’s what I had access to at Whole Foods. That helped a little bit but you could feel it. It was just palliative. It wasn’t getting to the root cause as soon as I did my giac there for us, like gone. Yeah, whoa, it was like someone just flipped the switch and turns it off. I couldn’t believe it.
Evan Brand: That makes sense. Well, I guess one thing we didn’t define yet is the difference between acute nausea which I I would consider your situation they’re more acute versus cute with with the guy I was talking about. That was a more chronic knowledge issue. This guy been nauseous for years you were nauseous for day. So in that aspect there would be a little bit of difference for you. You didn’t need any testing. You didn’t do a stool test and wait for the results. You know, you count you got home you took some herbs you felt better, so that’s good. So I guess you know, so far we’ve been talking more more chronic. But regarding the acute. Another thing I would throw into the mix would be some type of binder, whether it’s like a fulvic acid, charcoal, zeolite clay, bentonite clay, those type of things could be a game changer. And I always have, I always have a bag that in the diaper bag. So my wife and I are out somewhere. Let’s say I got food poisoning. Maybe it helps but it’s definitely not going to hurt to papa capsule or to a charcoal.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It can and don’t get me wrong in this situation. I had charcoal, I had oil of oregano. I had probiotics. None of that touched it when I hit my giac there for it. Within 30 minutes. I couldn’t believe it. It was like I was in this fall. And then it was just totally lifted.
Evan Brand: It makes sense. Well, so the charcoal wouldn’t work if it was like a bacteria histamine issue, right?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, if it was a food poisoning kind of bacteria issue probably was it probably wasn’t enough because it’s like, you know, you send in 10 police to to arrest 100 people, you know, think of the, the charcoal was the policeman, right? Well, it’s not enough but if you kind of drop a bomb, so to speak with the herbs in the tummy, all these unruly bacteria, you’re just going to knock everything down. I think we just needed bigger guns, right? The gut microbes, there’s just a lot of unfriendly microbes out of balance there and once I dropped the giac therefore, it moved the needle now I didn’t want to know ahead of time. So I’ve just learned wherever I go, I bring that gi Claire 4 because the burdock root with the golden seal and the high dose berberine ‘s and the grapefruit and the black is just a good synergy of herbs there that have really helped me a couple of different times in Mexico with parasites. And with this nausea episode. It’s an absolute game changer.
Evan Brand: I’ve Yeah, I’m I’d love to hear that, you know, I’ve used a lot less oregano in the past couple years clinically, because of the synergistic herb formulas that you and I have. I just find they work so much better than just a regular like if I used to see like a Candida or maybe a parasite, I may throw some oregano and on top of it, but I don’t know about you, but I’m using a lot less oregano in isolation and much, much more happy with our complexes.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I mean, I tend to do a combination of the two, especially if there’s Candida, but yeah, I totally agree. Some of the the combo stuff is really really nice and helps with the root issues. So recap what are some of the big things we have to look for? We have to kind of draw a line between an acute episode of nausea and a chronic episode. If there’s an acute episode, we always want to thank food poisoning or infection. Okay. If there’s a chronic episode when we want to thank potential infection, right, but we also want to thank stressed out Nervous System sympathetic overload, not enough enzymes, not enough acid, not enough bile. Put, right not enough file, we’re gonna have a hard time breaking down fat, liver and gallbladder and poor fat digestion issues are known to cause nausea. So adding in good, whether it’s just bile support or whether it’s phosphatidylcholine, or some taurine, or some dandelion root or some fringe tree extract are all very good for the gallbladder also just the enzyme, the lipase and the and the bile salts can be helpful. Good proteolytic enzymes, good hydrochloric acid, all of those can be incredibly helpful at supporting good digestion, and then which is a side benefit. The nausea goes away. See, with a lot of combat a lot of natural stuff, we don’t really have side effects, we have side benefits, you know, if you’re really sensitive, and you’re inflamed, there’s always can be a little bit of issue because your tummy may or your body may just be so inflamed, but if you’re relatively healthy and stable, most of the time you get side benefits with natural compounds, not side effects,
Evan Brand: Right. So if you’re using the antimicrobial herbs, you’re knocking down the pathogens, which is the main mechanism but then number two, the nausea when way. So that’s awesome. I love how that works. And regarding the testing, like I said, in your case, it was cute. You didn’t need testing, but in chronic cases, yeah, we’re going to be looking at store we’re going to be looking at your impossibly environmental, like I told you for this young guy, you know, he did have mold in his bedroom. The levels were quite high mold can cause nausea. It can cause dizziness. So some people have that combo, where it’s a little bit of nausea, vertigo, dizziness, combo, it could be related to that. And then I would say, stress and trauma too. I mean, I had a woman who had a really, really bad interaction with her boss. And every day on the drive to work, she would get nauseous and I thought, okay, what’s in her car? She had a mercedes, mercedes benz did a recall on 2.5 million cars for mold growing in the HVC system. So I thought, is this lady getting exposed to mold? Nope, we did petri dishes on her car. It wasn’t moly, she was fine. But why was she nauseous everyday on the way to work? And I thought, well, I don’t know. She thought she was EMF sensitive. So We had her disable all the Bluetooth functions and all that on the car. Nope, that didn’t help. And then we talked about this boss, how she had this really, really bad interaction with the boss. And I’m like, Okay, well, does the boss still work in that same office? Yes. And then the boss goes on vacation. Guess what her nausea magically goes away the week that she is driving to work where she knows the boss isn’t there. She has no nausea, like oh my god. So there it is. It’s some type of emotional trauma. And you have this like cortisol response, which cortisol could cause nausea from the stress. And so we just had her start doing tapping, we had her do Emotional Freedom Technique, tap, tap, tap it out, and the trauma went away. And now she could drive to work without getting nauseous. So sometimes you have to probe and sometimes you think it’s going to be something simple, and it ends up being related to that. So don’t forget about the emotional component. If you’ve got bad boss, bad spouse, let’s say you’re getting nauseous on the drive home and you’re going to go in and you know, you and your husband still have some stuff to resolve. It could be a normal reaction to be nauseous about that. Please don’t forget about the emotional work and Emotional Freedom Technique is free. It’s effective. Justin and I love it. We personally use it, we clinically use it tapping could be another strategy and sort of a bandaid. That could be palliative and root cause and with nausea, so I think it’s a great, great tool.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, also, if you look at this acupressure points, too, so here’s your hand. It’s called P6. So it’s right about here. So it’s about an inch or two down from the wrist. And if you massage this P6 can also be helpful.
Evan Brand: Yeah, they have bands in that, have you seen those? I tried them. I bought those nausea bands to try to go out on the boat. I mean, it was kind of limited success for me, but some people it works.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And again, this is kind of more a palliative. But nice thing is I mean, what kind of side effects do you have with this and it’s free, right? So you can rob here this area?
Evan Brand: Yeah. So people listening, people listening on audio, he’s showing you right on the right on the inside, it’s in. It’s in between the two tendons right there right on the wrist, kind of maybe maybe three inches. Have your wrist headed up towards your elbow but on the inside of your arm and then the other point he’s showing is right on the back of the hand sort of in that little crevice where the thumb and the pointer finger are going to meet right then in between there, you could you’re saying just hold it there. And that could help.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, you can just massage this area right here in the web between your thumb and your index finger, that little web that little fleshy area and again, this is on video here for y’all. So if you guys can see you can rub this area here. This is a great area like my wife was in in labor giving it and it does help massage this area here. This is not like some placebo stuff. This really does help. This helps and then right about two inches or so you feel like the the the app neurosis here, this kind of connective tissue right below it right in that area right in the middle below the middle finger all the way down just below where the tibia and the oma sorry, the the radius and the owner connect to that little gap there. Yeah, and if you guys are listening, Watch the YouTube video we’ll put down below. I know it’s hard to describe this stuff here. But we’ll try To put in the notes maybe an image of that so you guys can see it, but that’s very helpful. So if you’re feeling nauseous give that a rub. This is P6. This is another point right here. You can do that one. And then if there’s a certain stressful event that’s causing a problem right the boss or a stressful situation with a friend or family member, you can do all your EFT tapping points. I like to double tap. Yeah, like collarbone. Chin, you only got one chin, only one tap there under the nose, under the eyes, tip of the eyebrows, medial eyebrows.
Evan Brand: And you always talk about how we’re thinking about it too. Like you would be thinking you know, I’m stressed about this person or you doing the remedy you’re thinking I’m calm, which which are you mainly doing?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I always start with the problem because it’s really hard. If you’re thinking about a problem to be like stop thinking about the problem. You kind of need to calm the problem first and then you can start thinking about what you want to manifest so I’m just like, hey, that boss issue like, Man, this person’s really driving me nuts man. I’m feeling really anxious about this boss issue. Wow. Like really stressed to go to work today. And I’m thinking about that. And then once that kind of once I do a couple of rounds and that levels down, but I switch that it’s like, Alright, we’re going to have a great day at work, we’re going to have awesome communication, we’re all going to be on the same page, we’re going to have a really great meeting today. I’m going to communicate my needs clearly on a set my boundaries clearly. So you know, then you can kind of talk about what you want to manifest afterwards. So I try to get the sensation level down below five or so you know, a scale of one to 1010 being the worst, maybe you’re an eight, get it below five. And then you can start doing it while you focus on what you want to manifest. That’s very helpful. I think it’s really good when you can do it the points to you can also you can also tap these points if you want P5 or P6. You can tap these points too.
Evan Brand: Yeah, I love it. Also the peppermint oil and some of those things. Essential Oils topically can be very beneficial to whether you’re just sniffing them whether you’re putting like an anti nausea blend into diffuser. I know when I had gut infections, I was doing a lot of peppermint essential oil mixed with coconut oil to dilute it and I would rub that topically on the belly. It was a game changer. game changer. There’s been studies on that with IBS and it’s awesome. So orally you know, taking things and capsules doing peppermint teas, also topical oils, the EFT addressing the emotional stress, getting tested for the infections clearing those out. So a lot of a lot of good tips in this thing. So if you need to replay this podcast twice, do it and share it with people because there’s a lot of people suffering and they don’t get the answers they need. I really hate when I look at a a list of supplements or medications that our clients are on when they first come to us and they’re looking they’re doing 234 things just to try to help get them out of bed. You know, it’s like an anti anxiety. It’s an anti depressant. It’s an anti nausea, it’s an IBS drug. It’s like oh my gosh, we got to help this person.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% 100% Now a couple patients right in here about cleansing the liver well if you have a lot of gall stones, and your your gallbladder is not functioning properly and you’re not breaking down fat that could definitely be part of it. I typically don’t try to go flush out stones because if you flush out a stone think of a stone could be like a porcupine. It’s like giving a porcupine a hug when that gallbladder contract so I just try to gently emulsify the stone and my line we use the liver supreme because it has some herbs in there that helped kind of emulsify it and gently kind of smooth it out. And also it has bile salts in there and phosphatidylcholine and taurine. So I try to use things that smooth out the stone versus flesh it out because you can potentially cause a gallbladder attack and then extra bile to help break down the fat to then we’re not having the poor digestion of fat causing nausea either.
Evan Brand: Yes, yes. good points. Yeah. HCL enzymes, ox bile, the taurine and I do a lot of artichoke, beet powder. There’s a lot of good things you can do.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. And then just to be clear, this point is Li four, Li four. Okay, and then this one here on the wrist is you take the wrist and you put three fingers across the wrist. Right, and then it’s the pinky finger that that third finger down below I’m sorry, the index finger, third finger down below to measure you’re saying that’s how you measures. So that’s how you measure it to find it.
Evan Brand: Yeah. So people listening, you’ll put three fingers at the bottom of the hand, right? We’re connected to the wrist on the inside there. 123 fingers, long ways down, boom, there is
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: a horizontal and that can help with pain and nausea. Yep, that’s the LDL six and the P six or stay the L. They call it Li four. I’m pretty sure l four is an abbreviation than PC six or P six. Those are the big ones. If you guys want to Google that you can find some images and videos on how to do that.
Evan Brand: Good. There could be some Lessing I’ll mention here there could be some issue with the IRS. I’ve had some clients that have had issues with their sinuses and or their ears causing nausea. And so I’m not saying you need to do this, but I’m telling you what I’ve done before is I’ve done like some grapefruit seed extract in the nose or grapefruit seed extract in the ears to try to clear out inner ear type issues that could cause nausea and it has been beneficial. Some people have reported silver being good up the nose and silver in the ears. If there’s some type of a viral issue, there are some viruses that can affect the inner ear and that can cause some nausea as well. So I am not an EMT, so consult with your EMT and ask them about that. But ears, nose, throat, those kind of issues could possibly be related to this.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, usually with ear stuff, you’re gonna have a lot more vertigo, dizziness and nausea. So if your usually your vertigo is the primary issue, followed by the nausea as a secondary issue, we’re talking, we’re talking more nausea as the primary issue. If that is a problem, you got to get to the root cause. So even with vertigo, a lot of times autoimmune stuff can be at play, thyroid stuff can be a play. If it’s in a odorless crystal issue, where there’s different techniques that you can do a lot of chiropractors will put you on your back, imagine I’m lying on my back, they’ll tilt your head back and they’ll have you turn one way to kind of move the crystal through a lot of times they’ll do massage or a precursor on the back of the occiput area to kind of jiggle out those crystals and They’ll tilt this way as well. So they’ll go back until one way hole for 30 seconds back till the other way hold for 30 seconds that can be helpful if it’s a true otolithic crystal issue. But it may not be for everyone. So there’s a lot of different root causes. That’s why coming up with one medication to treat it is silly because there’s so many different root causes. That’s why the more you know, the better.
Evan Brand: That’s true. That’s true. Well, I think that’s all I wanted to cover. If you have anything else, let us know. But otherwise, let’s wrap this thing up.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, so a couple patients right in the chat here will can slippery elm or can fennel help with the tummy? Well, it just depends, right? So if there’s inflammation in the tummy causing the nausea, anything anti inflammatory for the tummy, like glutamine, or ginger, or slippery elm or dgl, or aloe could potentially help with the nausea. Like let’s say you had a food poisoning issue. Would that be enough to help with the nausea maybe not because you’d probably need more antimicrobials in there as well. So you always have To connect it to the root cause. So, if it really helps some of those anti inflammatories, healing, soothing supports aloe bone broth, collagen, it’s probably more of an inflammatory issue, probably less of an acute infection issue. So you’ve got to figure out the root cause. And that’s why seeing a good functional medicine doc like myself, or you evidence gonna be great. And if you guys want to go see Evan, EvanBrand.com, and JustinHealth.com, we are available worldwide to help you if you want to dive in deeper and get to the root cause of what’s happening.
Evan Brand: Yep, well, thank you for the plug. I’ll mention it too, in case people like my voice better than yours, if you want to reach out to Justin, JustinHealth.com. He’s available worldwide. And me EvanBrand.com, available worldwide. We love helping people. We’re truly blessed. We’re truly grateful for the opportunity. You know, we’ve suffered and been our own our own journeys, and we’ve recovered from significant things that many doctors just threw their hands up at, or maybe they threw the prescription pad up at us and we denied those things. And so we’re really honored to be able to have this knowledge personally and clinically. And, you know, we learned so much from you guys. So please reach out if you need help. And we’d love to get to the bottom of this with you
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% We are here to serve. And if you guys enjoy this content, please let us know. Let us know what you’d like. Let us know what you’ve experienced in regards to helping improve your nausea. Again, everything that we’re talking about is not just something theoretical, you see in PubMed, or you read on some blog posts. These are theoretical things that we’ve done with hundreds of patients out of out of the thousands that we’ve seen. So it’s all actionable, hope you guys apply it and at least take away one thing that you can work on here. And you guys have a phenomenal day and continue to maintain optimal health. Take care y’all.
Evan Brand: Take care, bye bye.
SIBO Can Cause Histamine Intolerance, Here’s How. | Podcast #268
For today’s podcast, we’re focusing on SIBO, gut infections and more histamine issues, and how SIBO can cause histamine intolerance. Last podcast about histamine went well last week, so today we’re going deeper into these topics. Check out this podcast with Evan Brand.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani
In this episode, we cover:
1:43 Histamine, symptoms and solutions
8:21 Diet recommendations
15:20 Fat Consumption
17:07 Gallbladder issues
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And we are live. It’s Dr. J here in the house with Evan brand, Evan, how you doing today, man?
Evan Brand: Hey, man, Happy Monday. I’m doing really well.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Happy Monday to you as well. I know we chatted, kind of in our pregame interview, we chatted about what we’re going to talk about and we kind of chatted about histamine, histamine went really good last week, we see a lot of patients with potential histamine sensitivity. And the histamine a lot of times may not be– a little reverb there. histamine may not be a root cause of the issue. It may just be a symptom of other issues going on in the gut. We always kind of keep that in mind. A lot of people. You know, if you don’t have a lot of experience, clinically, it’s easy to think that histamine is the root cause. And then you feel like you have all these food restrictions and you’re not sure what next steps to do and that’s tough. So we’re going to be focusing on SIBO we can even expand that to gut infections, and histamine issues. So I’m really excited for today’s topic.
Evan Brand: Yeah, you made a great point right from the gate which is people that are focusing on The nutrition piece too much or focusing on maybe some of the supplemental things correct. Many people discuss DAO, which is something I’m experimenting with just to play with it and see how it works. DAO is the enzyme in your body that naturally helps to grade histamine. But as you have infections and stress and toxins, you are either unable to produce less, I mean, we’re not 100% confident with the mechanism, you may produce less or maybe is less effective. So people will do a DAO supplement say, Oh, well, I feel better. I’m not having these food reactions, and they’ll just stop there. But this is where we’re starting now at the end of that rope, and then we’re taking you to the whole next level, because if you stop there, you’re just you haven’t addressed what’s actually going on.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. So in general, histamine is a neurotransmitter made from histidine. It’s designed to help with the inflammatory response. It’s designed to vaser dilate open up the blood flow of the blood vessels so you have better blood flow, which helps with an inflammatory response. So you bumpy your elbow, right, you bump your head there’s a histamine response that helps vaser dilate helps migrate a lot of those white blood cells into that area kind of helps promote healing. The problem is acute acutely and acute situation not that big of a deal because it happens and then your body recovers. We’re more talking about a chronic kind of low grade inflammation or low grade histamine issue where you’re chronically swollen, you’re chronically inflamed. You may have a lot of chronic histamine symptoms, this could be headaches, it could be flushing, right, that chronic red and flushing symptoms. It could be nausea, it could be hives, right, those kind of wheels are you to carry a hives and the skin could be fatigue, it could be brain fog could be just kind of chronic low grade swelling could be allergic shiners under the eyes with a lot of lymphatic pooling in the face. So it’s good to keep an eye on these symptoms as they could be part of what’s going on. And then of course, there’s a lot of medication that are typically treating these things, whether it’s Xurtak or [inaudible] or Pepcid AC, different medications. The problem with a lot of the medications, they tend to have more side effects, whether it’s fatigue or brain fog. And a lot of people, they just get knocked out when they take a lot of these medications. So they’re kind of stuck because their performance and ability to function at work, if they’re doing hard work are dealing with their kids, they’re going to be pretty much a zombie or zonked out for a lot of them. So we want to really get to the root cause of why these symptoms are present. And a lot of times the guts going to be a big role because a lot of chronic inflammation is going to be at the gut level, whether it’s inflammation from food that you’re dealing with, whether it’s gluten or dairy, and or other histamine foods, right fermented foods or age meats or citrus or avocados, or it could be from a deeper infection that sets you up to be more sensitive, right. If you have SIBO or bacterial overgrowth, or other infections, it’s going to potentially make it harder for you to digest food, the harder it is for you to digest food, the greater chance that you’re going to develop food allergens. And also the more inflammation in your gut, the greater chance that you’re going to have gut permeability. So the more permeable your gut is, the more these foods have a way of getting into the bloodstream, the more your immune system sees them and an undigested state increases the chance that we’re going to make antibodies for those foods. And then also just the fact that we have other bacteria that may be slipping into the bloodstream. These compounds are lippo polysaccharides these can also go and create histamine issues. They can also go to the up to the brain hit and hit a lot of brain fog and mood issues. So there’s a lot of like dominoes they get hit. His to me maybe one of those dominoes, but there’s a lot of dominoes that get me hit. And then you have a lot of symptoms happening from it. And then the question is you have to kind of corral all these symptoms in to a root cause of like, what’s the next step but it gets very, really overwhelming.
Evan Brand: Yeah, I want to go back to the symptoms real quick. Something that’s really interesting is the fact that you could have issues with your sleep, you know, trouble falling asleep or even dizziness. You know, I noticed when I went low histamine with my diet, some of this Kind of disequilibrium, dizziness stuff that I was having that I thought was mold exposure, or possibly co infections I bartonella. I noticed when I went lower histamine, it got better, like my head got more clear and then I was able to go to sleep better. So this is kind of why you mentioned some people do the anti histamines and then they get knocked out. You know, I think part of the reason that some people’s nervous systems are so revved up is excess histamine, but here they are taking melatonin. Now, that may help or passionflower or, you know, we’d like to use like, Mother Ward or Valerian or Thean or Skullcap there’s a ton of good sleep options, but you may be missing the boat so those herbs are fine. Those are much safer than a sleep drug which are extremely hard to get people off of. But this the the sleep herbs may not be the root cause it may be histamine. So you could try going with a lower histamine diet during the meantime, that’s something we may recommend you do is go lower histamine while we’re working on labs are waiting on labs. And then if we find that just by lowering histamine in the diet, All the sudden, you have less blood pressure problems, you fall asleep easier, you’re not flushing, you’re not having the nasal congestion, you’ve got rid of headaches, maybe your energy’s better, well, then that’s a great clue that we’re onto something. But we don’t want to get you stuck on low histamine forever. I just don’t think that’s a way to live. So that’s when we’re going to go into these gut infections. So you mentioned bacterial overgrowth, and how we’re going to be looking at that as with stool and urine. So, Justin, I run honor, no problem between us both probably thousands of labs per year. And I would say, Now, granted, we’re a little bit biased, right? Because people that come to us have already been to many practitioners, and so they often are going to have real problems. But I would say 90% of people we look at are going to have some sort of a bacterial overgrowth problem that’s leading to these issues.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. So histamine, it’s an important first step to look at and kind of know the histamine foods. We’ve already talked about some of the foods last time And we I think there’s a handout up there from last time as well from last week. So take a look at last week’s podcast. Try to put some of those links down below so you can access them but more common histamine foods are going to be ones that are rich in probiotics fermented foods. And that’s tough because people are following the Paleo template or following Weston a price or understand the benefits of probiotics and fermented foods. That’s kind of a curveball. And a lot of people kind of walk into this and they’re like, wait a minute, that’s supposed to be good for you. Yeah, it should be good for you. But for some people, it may be a problem with histamine and if they have SIBO it could be a problem as well. I call it probiotic intolerance. And that’s very possible. That’s what’s happening. Next are going to be your citrus foods, your age meats. Of course, a lot of paleo foods are going to be on that list. So if you’re just going paleo you cut about half of them out anyway, just by default.
Evan Brand: You know what got me in trouble though? coconut aminos I love-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and amino acids are pretty high.
Evan Brand: Super high. And I was for I was, you know, there’s basically fermented coconut blossom nectars what it is, but of course The longer things ferment the higher the histamine so I was making my steaks and marinated steak and then maybe even add a little extra coconut aminos during the cooking process. Yes. And I was going too crazy with it. So I’m taking a break from coconut aminos that’s something that gets heavily used and abused and healthy foods because people are trying to ditch soy sauce for example.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. And that’s a good first step. And if you don’t have a histamine issue, that’s a really good first step. But if you do and you have some symptoms, like we mentioned earlier, then you know what, where to look. But in general, regarding histamine, we want to keep those foods down. So I mentioned some of the avocados, the tomatoes, the egg plan. So if you’re cutting out night shades, you may get that out. By default, avocados are kind of a curveball, right? Because that’s a really good fat. We also have the age meat, so try not to let meat sit around longer than a day or two, or even meats that tend to be preserved, whether it’s jerky or, or bacon are those kind of things. And then of course we have your probiotic foods and then our citrus So those can be curveballs. And then obviously teas and coffee, and britisher teas are the big one teas and energy drinks. That’s a DAO inhibitor. So they’re not really high in histamine, but they inhibit that enzyme DAO that helps break down histamine. So, you know, keep that in the back of our mind. So in general, the more information we– go ahead, yeah.
Evan Brand: I was just gonna say one thing about drinks. I’ve had some people that go on to like a CVO like these natural stevia sodas, where you’re doing carbonated water and a lot of time there’s added citric acid to those. And so there’s a lot of citric acid added to some of those drinks and I’ve had people drink those and then all sudden they flush out and so just cutting the drink out with the citric acid that could be something that kind of created some type of either a mast cell response or a histamine response. So that’s just one other one other potential cause and it’s tough because if you’re eating like if you’re drinking a carbonated drink and you’re doing a steak with coconut aminos, and then you’ve got your sauerkraut or kimchi on your plate with your whole grass fed dairy, it’s tough to know what you’re actually responding to. So sometimes you really have to just keep a food journal and go really simple where you just drink that carbonated drink for 15 minutes and then wait, see if you get a response and then move on to the next food item and the next food item. Hopefully, the average person it’s not that tricky, but for some it can be.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. And of course, we already mentioned the kombucha, there’s some higher sugar ones, there’s some lower sugar ones. If you’re probiotic intolerant, that’d probably be something you want to pull out for at least a couple of weeks to a month and see kind of where you sit after after the fact. It’s got to make sure that we’re fixing digestion. We have enough HCl and hydrochloric acid and enzymes and good digestive support. Foods not being digested appropriately are going to create stress and inflammation in the gut. And then we got to look deeper at you know, making sure the common food allergens are out because a lot of times regular food allergens like you get from grains or dairy, or lentils or the goons, those can create similar symptoms of histamine and the question is welcome Is there a histamine response to these foods from an inflammatory perspective as possible, right? Because the more you create inflammation, we know that histamine is a part of the inflammatory response. It’s it. It’s part responsible for the vaser dilation that happens. So it’s possible that inflammation from other foods that aren’t necessarily histamine sensitive foods could potentially drive histamine symptoms, we have to keep that in the back of our mind. And this is why it’s so hard because you’re like, wait a minute, this foods not a high histamine food, yet I’m having high histamine symptoms, how do I connect the dots and that’s how it’s all from inflammation. inflammation is the first domino and there’s many different Domino pastor trails that could take based on inflammation being present. Now, the hidden sources of inflammation are things that we don’t really see or we’re not aware of like low stomach acid low enzymes are not necessarily aware of that we may be aware of the fact Hey, I take hydrochloric acid, I feel better, I have less bloating and less gas and more regular or I do a SIBO test, I treat my SIBO and my motility My histamine symptoms improve after the fact that’s also another thing that can create awareness, but you may not be aware of it unless someone helps guide you in the process and does some testing as well.
Evan Brand: Yeah, and I’m not going to say that all the time it happens to older people, we’re talking 40 50 60 70 80. But in general, I think it’s going to be more common for someone who is older because they’re going to make less stomach acid just due to age. Now we have seen kids and teenagers that have a lot of skin issues and gut issues, and I was one of those teenagers. And that’s because my diet was terrible, right? So you’ll still get younger, younger people that have these histamine intolerance issues, mainly because their guts been wrecked by antibiotics or they just had a bad diet to begin with. But if we’re just saying, as you mentioned, some of these dominoes that fall, one of the dominoes that falls with age is just HCl, so you become at a higher risk of getting bacterial overgrowth because now you don’t have enough acid to neutralize what you get exposed to from your foods.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% And again, I think part of it As you get older, there’s a natural drop in hydrochloric acid and enzymes as you get older. So there’s that. So I think age does play a role because of stomach acid dropping. And we need stomach acid to activate our enzymes and we need stomach acid to activate our bile salts. And we know bile has natural antibacterial effects. So the less bile you have, the more easy it is for bad bacteria to grow. So if we have good stomach acid, that’s going to provide an anti microbial environment meaning harder for bad critters to grow. And then with good HCl we also produce better bile salts. bile salts have that good acid byproduct that keeps bacteria down as well. That’s why you see a lot of people that have SIBO they’re also typically taking bile salts to help with one the environment but also to being able to break down fats really, really important.
Evan Brand: So how about people with had a gallbladder it sounds like they would be brain risk for this problem, then?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, they have to be on bile support for life now. Because what’s happened is that don’t really have a gallbladder anymore. They’re common hepatic bile doc and the liver is now the gallbladder. And so it doesn’t hold bile. Like the gallbladder concentrates bile like 15 to 20 x. And then it contracts and punctuates to release a bile at the right time, ie you have a fatty meal. Do you have a hormone that’s produced or a neurotransmitter kind of peptide called coli sista kinda, and that triggers the gallbladder to contract, it releases all this stored bile that’s been concentrated. And that bile can now come in and hit that fat and digest it and emulsify it. The problem is, you don’t have that punctuated release, because the gallbladder is gone. So it just kind of drips, it just drips drip strips, like a leaky faucet all day long. And then you don’t have the concentration of it. So it’s kind of a little bit more watered down. It’s a little bit weaker, and you don’t have the concentrated release at time of that fat being ingested. So that’s the problem.
Evan Brand: Yeah, well, you know, conventional doctors don’t educate people on this when they go into a potential gallbladder removal surgery. They’ll just say, Yeah, you’re Liver still is going to make some bio for you, but they don’t talk about that concentration factor and how it’s literally, you know, that’s like taking a, you know, a little fairy dust of some HCl and throwing it in and hoping it works. It’s not a therapeutic amount that’s going to come without that gallbladder, I mean, no still going to survive, right? I mean, there’s tons of people living but it’s just they’re not thriving.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, what tends to happen after that is to cover up a lot of those symptoms. conventional medicine says, Well, you have to be careful of your fat consumption. Well, yeah, you do because you don’t have the same level of bio output, but you need good fat, you need fat soluble vitamins A, D, and K, your long chain omega three fatty acids are really important for your health. So you’re not getting good fats. That’s a bad thing. I mean, we’ve seen with the obesity epidemic over the last hundred years, the last 30 or so years, fat consumption has dropped significantly and weights gone up. So it’s not really a fat issue based on the correlation. It’s really a carbohydrate issue. Maybe a trans fat issue, maybe an excess refined junkie vegetable oil issue but good healthy fats are not part of the play. And if we now affect our digestion when we can’t absorb those things, well every membrane in our body has good fats in them. So we need healthy fats to make our cell membranes. We need vitamin A, which is a fat soluble vitamin for our thyroid receptor sites. We need fish oil for inflammation. That’s our long chain omega threes. We need cholesterol which tends to come trapped in with animal fat for our hormones for our brain mass. So all this stuff is so important for healthy hormones. healthy body healthy brain
Evan Brand: Yep, absolutely. And there’s no education on that. It’s just Yep, you gotta gallbladders gotta come out and then that’s it. And then they don’t have here’s the interesting thing that the surgeon and then the doctors and such they don’t deal with the collateral damage. They just kind of got it out and move on. So then they end up coming to us. Hey, look, here’s this list of 20 symptoms I developed after gallbladder removal surgery. not to get too distracted from our from our topic, but this is all related because it could have been connecting a histamine problem could have been what led up to this and then it could have, you know, continued after the removal.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And I’ve done some articles and podcasts on gallbladder issues in the past and there are some common paleo foods that could be a gallbladder issue as well. Porks one of them, especially Bacon is also a histamine overlap there. So is I think sauerkraut as well, onions. There’s a bunch of paleo foods that like, you know, on the surface, you’re like, wait a man, these are pretty healthy foods. But if you have a gallbladder issue, it could be a driving factor and yes, some of these foods overlap with histamines. So take a look at just go to my site JustinHealth.com just type in gallbladder and you’ll find those articles and videos there for y’all.
Evan Brand: Perfect. So we hit on the the SIBO, we often discuss that SIFO small intestinal fungal overgrowth is very commonly occurring at the same time. And so that’s where once we get the proper lab testing, looking at stool and urine primarily, we’re going to be finding the answers that We need to start resolving this. As we mentioned, you may be using extra enzymes and acids. Maybe you’re using histamine degrading enzyme supplementally to try do yeah, you’re using that as a band aid knowing that you’re working backwards. And then once we come in with herbs to address, which is the, the opposite of the conventional neomycin, die flu can Neistat and kind of protocol, we’re going to come in with herbs instead, and then eventually retest and then of course watch symptom improvement at the same time. But with retesting labs, with watching symptom improvement, may be doing those band aids you can reverse this issue.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, we need to calm down the inflammation in the gut because those mast cells are what’s making a lot of histamine right. So your basal fills are in your blood when those basal fills go into the tissue goes into the gut lining there, they’re all become mast cells. And mass cells are what produces histamine and imagine this, you know, this mass cells sitting here, the longer we’re not exposing ourselves to inflammatory food, that mass cells like swelling up because it’s used to having a reserve Now that reserves is kind of like, kind of in gorging itself bigger and bigger and then now you eat some food that’s kind of off your food recommendation, then you get this massive flood of histamine. And when you feel like even worse, and this is what happened with someone’s on a good diet for a while, and then they go off the wagon. They’re like, Holy smokes, I got hit by a bus. What happened? I thought I was doing really good. Why have I not become more adaptable at these foods? Well, it takes some time. And then a lot of times these mast cells are just sitting there in the short run, filling up with histamine waiting for you to just go off your diet.
Evan Brand: Yeah, what about alcohol? Do you have anything to say about that? Because I had a woman who’d been off alcohol for a long time. We kind of discussed Hey, you probably shouldn’t do it. your gut barriers toast and she went to some work party and had two drinks and then she emailed me the next day Oh my god, I’m so miserable. Alcohol has never done this to me before. Granted, she was on a protocol. So some of the herbs mixing with alcohol is not smart, but just from a avoid leaky gut perspective and then going back to it, she seemed like she got worse than alcohol used to make her feel. Do you have any insight on that?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, so I always tell patients like don’t add any alcohol and until we have a level of clarity, a level of improvement. So then if we add an alcohol and we go backwards, we know that the alcohol brought us backwards that way. We’re not feeling crappy. And then we’re putting alcohol in there. And maybe the alcohol is what’s holding us back from getting better. And we don’t know it, right, because we always felt crappy to begin with. Yeah, so kind of get clean first. So then when you get dirty again, you know, okay, I know what clean feels like. There’s something that changed here. So regarding alcohol, there’s different quality of alcohol. So you could have like a mixed drink with a whole bunch of sugar in it, you know, that’s going to cause a whole bunch of problems just because of the sugar and the crap that’s in there. And obviously, there’s like different wines that may have pesticides or sulfates or potential gluten in there. A lot of wines are contaminated because there’s a lot of flour that lines the barrel the wines. So hard alcohol is going to be your cleanest and keeping the sugar content if you do a mixed drink, and then also like a champagne or a dry white wine will kind of be your next step up, right, the dry or whites or the dryer kind of champagne is going to have less sugar, it’s going to have less potential irritants. So you kind of start with the fruit, the kinds of alcohol that will have the less additives and inflammation compounds, and then kind of work your way back. And that wave, it just gives you the chance to have in the least issues now there are some cultures where they just have less da o to hang out with in your in their in their guts in their bloodstream. So they’re going to react to alcohol, they’ll get like a facial flush. You see this in a lot of Asian cultures because they don’t quite make as much do. So they’ll take that Pepsi they see a lot of times and that blocks that histamine response. So a lot of cultures may just have less histamine issues. You see it with Asians and alcohol, they get very flush, so you just got to know where you’re at, and then just try to choose an alcohol that’s gonna have the least possible chance of a reaction. And then you can always do some activated charcoal. In between to kind of help with that, too.
Evan Brand: Yep, that’s good advice. Anything else you think we should say about testing or herbs or things we’re doing to work on this issue?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, there’s different herbs that we’re going to recommend depending on if we’re methane dominant SIBO or hydrogen dominant SIBO, and a lot of times people have the right to have more than one issue going on at once. So, you could have SIBO and a parasite infection, you could have SIBO and H. pylori, you could have SIBO and SIFO and SIFO is nothing more than a fungal overgrowth. It could be Candida, various different yeast, mainly the main ones, Candida, but you could have all of these things going on together. It may not just be SIBO, you have the right to have more than one issue. People get fixated. They’re like, I know it’s Candida. I know it’s a worm. I know it’s this and it may be but it may be that and a whole bunch of other things. So keep your mind open to all the different stressors that could be going on at the same time.
Evan Brand: Well, the funny thing is to maybe the person’s right and they did have a parasite or they did have Candida, but we may find something even higher up on the priority list and that like if I see, you know, okra toxin levels we know okra toxin and other mold toxins we know those damage that go if I see those things off the chart and I look at dizziness and they can’t sleep and they got heart palpitations and all these other symptoms that don’t sound like SIBO. We might go after that first and SIBO and histamine and all that may be secondary and tertiary problems. So that’s another fun and important reason that we do multiple tests on people is because if you come in and you’re like, hey, Dr. J, I know it’s SIBO just run the SIBO test. He’s gonna say, No, I really think we need to also look at this and this and that. And that’s not just because we like to run labs. It’s because we like to have data so that when our puzzle pieces are on the table, we can make a more complete picture, as opposed to trying to identify your problem and make a protocol based on one little piece if we don’t, I mean, if we’re using the just one little puzzle piece, it’s just not you know, your success rate may be hindered.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100 & 10%, and I think it’s, it’s really important to kind of keep that in the back of your mind. That could be a lot of different things happening. And like you mentioned earlier, an important component is the history. Hey, do you live in a house where there was recent water damage? When you’re in your home, and you leave for a period of time? Do you feel better? Have you rectified the water damage? How did you do it? Is there any visible mold in your home? So these are really important questions to know. And sometimes I’ll see in my history, I’ll see patients Yeah, there’s water damage, and they didn’t really do much to address it. And they really feel foggy in the home. They feel better when they’re outside, getting fresh air. These are important signs and symptoms. A lot of times you’ll see more neurological things like you mentioned, Evan, whether it’s brain fog, or just spaceyness or headaches. And again, we’re looking for that timing in regards to a flood or there could be even a chronic issue where there’s just high humidity in the home. And that’s where doing some of the mold testing for the home is ideal. The multitasking for the home is great because if you have you know, five people in the house We get a positive Mold Test. Well, we know that that could be affecting all five people. So it’s good to know that.
Evan Brand: Yeah, absolutely. I had a building I went into when I was in Florida. And I literally got flushed. After entering the building. I had like a reaction to the building. I started to feel off, I was just like, Whoa, this is not a good building. And I look up at the ceiling and there’s water spots, water stains, all over the ceiling. I was like, Oh my god, and this is not. Oh, Evan, you’re crazy. This is placebo. You looked at the ceiling, and then you convince yourself you felt bad. No, I felt bad before I even saw the ceiling. This was on the way, walking out of the building, I look up and see all the water stain. So most people are not that sensitive, and most know are not that in tune to their situation to know, hey, I’ve been in this building for an hour and every time I am in this particular building, for example, like college students, they’ll say when I go to this one classroom, I can’t focus I get brain fog. I get really tired. Maybe the subject is boring and they don’t like the teacher but it could be the building, particularly Making them bad. So I’ve had some college students I work with where I’ll just tell them, hey, try to sit in a different part of that room. Or if it’s a big auditorium, move to a different corner where maybe you’re closer to a door where you get fresh air and see if you feel better. And yeah, obviously, this is a more like, nuanced small percentage of the population, but it does happen. And I want people to know, they’re not crazy. This is a real phenomenon you may be experiencing.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and the nice thing about it is you should be able to figure out some correlation from this, because you’re in that building, you’re out, you’re in your home, you’re out, maybe you’re walking around all day. So hopefully, you can notice a correlation there. Like you mentioned earlier, everyone’s not going to be that level of sensitive, right? There’s different genetic variation, obviously, depending on how long you’ve been exposed to something and how much is it already in your cells in your fat in your body already can make you more sensitive. So with some of your mycotoxin testing, which will do a lot of urinary testing for mold, will see some of these things and we if we do a urinary test for mold, we have to also challenge it. So we’re going to be using glutathione for at least a couple of days ahead of time. Just because if your detoxification pathways are a little bit weak, or let’s say the molds overwhelm your system, you may have lower glutathione. Anyway, so it may be harder to push the mold out to begin with. So you have to keep that in the back of your head. That’s why we test the home first. Because if we have a high level of mold in the home, we don’t see a lot coming out in the urine. Well, it’s really important that we provoke that and just give you enough detoxification support to at least get a window and how much is coming out in your year and that way, we have a baseline. So as we treat over 369 months, we can come back and see if those levels are dropping.
Evan Brand: Yeah, infrared sauna is great too. For that you can measure a lot of higher increased levels after sauna so somebody can’t tolerate glutathione and for some reason you could do a sauna, and also fasting which is pretty interesting. That’s why a lot of the samples we do in the first thing in the morning because fasting can help excrete some of these toxins too. So we could obviously dive more into that on another show. My mood levels are almost gone. I had okra toxin level of 195 you want it below four.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Fasting, though, with fasting, you only can do that really acutely, though. That’s like a short term thing. It’s not a long term strategy, right?
Evan Brand: Yeah, yeah, I’m just talking overnight fasting, but maybe, you know, like intermittent fasting. Maybe in between those meals, you are exceeding a little more and flushing a little more toxin out.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: God. Okay, so you were saying okra toxin. Go ahead.
Evan Brand: Sorry. Yeah, yeah, that’s okay. I think the reference range was below four is optimal. And I started out at a 195. And here we are talking almost exactly one year later, and my levels are down to a 15. So-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 195 to 15. So it’s like, 98% 95% reduction.
Evan Brand: Yeah, it’s a lot but it took a year and that’s hardcore work. That’s conventional and prescription binders that sauna, that’s extreme avoidance. That’s liver lymphatics. I mean, that’s a lot of work. So I just want to end this by putting a realistic timeframe in people’s heads, you know, when they have a reaction They take a Benadryl and they feel better in half an hour. You know, they’re really happy about that, or when they have a headache and they take an Advil, they feel better in 30 minutes, that’s great. But with these issues here, we’re talking reversing potentially 10 20 30 40 50 years of toxins and damaged gut barriers and overgrowth and antibiotic usage and all that crap. So, you know, when we tell somebody, hey, six months to a year timeline, I think that’s extremely short when you factor all that in.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 110%. Man, I like it. I think you’re on the right track. with that. I think we’re on the right track with today’s chat, trying to connect the SIBO component, trying to also connect the different gut components that connect the SIBO. And then also I think the mole and we need to do our own little show on mold and histamine. Maybe next week, we’ll come back and do more than his mean, it gets really important. I think it’s a big issue. And the problem is a lot of people have multiple issues at the same time, and this is where it’s really hard. We want to glom onto one thing we want this one, hey, we want to have this one label. This is my issue, it’s kind of easy to wrap your head around that. But it could be a lot of different issues. So everyone that’s listening, keep your mind open to their being lost at problems at the same time. And also, if you’re overwhelmed, this is where it’s good to reach out to a practitioner like Evan. EvanBrand.com, or myself Dr. J. JustinHealth.com if you want to dive in deeper, kind of get your arms wrapped around it with some objective lab testing. So we actually know what is happening underneath the hood, so to speak. Yeah. And anything else you want to add today, man?
Evan Brand: No, I just want to give people a little bit of boost of hope and encouragement. Just say hey, look, as you mentioned, there may be layers to this, but you can peel back the layers you can you can get better, no matter how long you’ve suffered. You can you can you can keep that in mind.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and your story is great with the mold because you really had some pretty debilitating symptoms. And mold one of those things. It’s like if you don’t know what’s there, man, it’s like, you’re just in it in an environment where there’s just toxins all around you and you don’t even see it and it’s a slow creep and the time symptoms start really in their head, it’s been going on for years. That’s the problem.
Evan Brand: Yeah, I got to give a shout out to our mutual friend, Dr. Jack Wolfson, for telling me that it was mold. I didn’t want to believe it. But I was talking to him and said, Hey, I was waking up dizzy. This is weird blood pressures going all over the place. And he writes back in all caps, one word mold. And that started at all.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and the thing is, I mean, I’ll give credit to Jack. I think that’s us right on there. The problem is, there are a lot of let’s just say, mold, myopic doctors, where everything’s mold, right? Everything’s mold. And that’s a problem too, because it may not be so the differences with you, you got this feedback from Dr. Jack you tested your home, guess what? Really high mold, you tested your urine, you provoked it really high mold. So we had some objective data to kind of support us. So we weren’t kind of flying blind. So I think you did the right thing. And for people that are listening to this and think it’s mold, get that testing done first so you can be more confident. And then more importantly, because you’ve gone through the whole mediation process that’s even more overwhelming. And that’s where you want to work with an expert because You can feel like you have to spend six figures to get your home remediated. And that’s not the case. You can do it for way, way cheaper. And it can be, let’s just say a process that isn’t as bad as it thinks. Or if you feel like it is based on what you see online and everything.
Evan Brand: Yeah. And into Jack’s defense, you know, he is he works on hearts. You know, he’s not a mold doctor, but his wife was really sick. Yes, last few years from mold. So luckily, he had had first hand experience. So he thought, hey, this sounds kind of weird, and at least had enough in the trenches experience with his own wife to know, hey, that might be it. So very interesting how it all turns out, I think it’s one of the biggest hidden epidemics going on.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep. I see the whole mole thing and the Lyme thing as well. Anytime there’s some kind of a weird neurological symptom. people throw that out there. And it could be right but get the whole thing worked up. I mean, the thing with Evan Evan had three different other infections to begin with. So you had I think giardhia blast on h pylori.
Evan Brand: Crypto. Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Crypto, Giardhia, H pylori, right. So now just kind of for everyone listening so they can have insight, Evan had already addressed those issues ahead of time. And he gotten a little bit better, but there was still something holding him back. So if Evan just myopically focused on the mold and didn’t get rid of those infections, he may not have the same level of improvement. So there’s kind of an order of operations and how we want to hit this. And because you had three series, I mean, each one of those infections individually is kind of a big deal. The fact that you had all three going on at the same time, I call it the three amigos. It’s definitely going to be a major stressor on your body, and then you throw in the mold and the adrenal stress and then potentially blood sugar issues. Yeah. So you had a whole host of things that we were able to kind of sequence up and have it all makes sense.
Evan Brand: Yeah. And we’re talking we’re talking over a four to five year period, you know, those gun reactions were cleared out almost five years before the mold protocol. And that’s not due to that that’s not the way that necessarily I wanted it or that that we wanted it to happen. It’s just the way it happened. That was you The exposures came later. And so not everything could be perfectly sequenced and care but it’s just a matter of peeling back the layers you can to get some level of improvement. And that quality of life hopefully will continue to motivate you and allow you to pursue other layers of healing.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, the nice thing with us is we’re getting better because we’re also treating ourselves and thousands of patients so because of that, it’s not just like you know, textbook information, it’s real world actual results kind of driving treatment, driving protocols, driving kind of our perspective on what the next steps are for patient so it allows your treatment allowed me to get better at this and allow you to get other patients better so we just continue to grow like that which is excellent.
Evan Brand: Yeah, it’s a very, very, very cool place to operate.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Anything else you want to add Evan?
Evan Brand: That’s it. mentioned the links again, you can reach out to Justin, Dr. J, at JustinHealth.com my website’s EvanBrand.com. We both offer intro console where you can book 15 20 minutes, you can chat about your symptoms and goals. See if you’re good Fit for care if so, we’d love to help you. We’re very grateful to be in this position. So we honor it and we’ll be back next week.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent. You guys have a phenomenal day. Look forward to checking in soon. Take care y’all. Bye now. See ya.