Skin Issues from Die-Off and Food Reactions | Podcast #249

Food has a major impact on the microbiome, and the microbiome has a major effect on the skin because the more we put stress in our gut, our body will use a major means of detoxification to deal with that stress and inflammation. Inflammatory foods have the biggest effect on the skin.

Dr. Justin and Evan talks about food reaction or die-off reactions affecting the skin. Our skin is also sensitive to food but it depends on what do we eat, where we eat, and a lot more. Read more about it here.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

In this episode, we cover:

02:30 Inflammatory foods

12:07 Histamine

17:13 Environment on eating

27:17 Effects on skin with regular bowel movement

35:31 Go chemical-free


Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And we are getting ready to go live here in just one second. And we are live. It’s Dr. J. Here in the house. Evan, how are we doing, man? Do you have a good weekend?

Evan Brand: I am doing wonderful. We finally got some rain. We’ve been in a drought for like a month. The trees, instead of turning like yellow and orange, they’re just going from green to dead. So we finally got like tons of rain last night. I was in fresh water in my pond. So everything is good.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s great, man. Excellent. I know we chatted pre show that we were going to talk about food reactions and or die-off reactions affecting the skin. I think this is really important to see a lot of patients that may have skin issues, whether it’s some food, whether it’s from got bacterial imbalances and whether it’s from addressing or knocking down gut bacterial imbalances. So usually everything interplays. I have an interesting study I printed off over the weekend and it’s all about the food and food inflammation affecting the gut microbiome. And we know that food has a major impact on the microbiome. We know the microbiome has a major effect on the skin, because the more we put stress in our gut, our body will use our major means of detoxification to deal with that stress and inflammation, whether it’s to the kidneys and out the urine, whether it’s out the gut, whether it’s from the guts, from liver, gallbladder into the stool and out the gut that way or through the liver. So we have three major pathways. And then, of course, the fourth one is going to be skin skins. And to be the fourth one with exception of breath, you know, breath breathing, you’ll have some there, but the skin will be the next one. And the more other means of a toxic location are stressed, the skin isn’t to be leaned upon more. So the first thing is to work on other systems that detoxification less that lessen the stress load of things going in. So we have input and output skin is primarily use on the output side of the equation. So the first thing we can do is do things to support the output, but no one root cause is decrease. All the things coming in on the input and we’ll kind of break what that equation looks like. Input output down.

Evan Brand:  Yep. So in other words, the skin should not get involved with detox, but it can pinch hit, if you will. If it has to. If the other systems are so compromised and then you see a skin issue, you know that you’ve got some work to do.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Exactly. So I would say the first thing is inflammatory foods are going to have the biggest effect on the skin and some of it’s not even detoxification. Some of it just can be autoimmune. And just through general inflammation in the skin, cells can be affected. So we can have reactions, dermatitis, various dermatitis, which just means skin inflammation. It’s hilarious. People go to the dermatologist and they’re like, oh, you have a dermatitis as well. I know that. That just means my skin’s inflamed. Of course, it’s red. It’s puffy. I know it’s inflamed. I don’t need you to just give me the Latin version of that same description. Right. It’s crazy. So, yeah. So you have various dermatitis is awful like colitis, which is the follicle is inflamed. Right. And then the next thing would be various autoimmune things which could be rosacea, which now is an autoimmune component, eczema, autoimmune component, psoriasis, autoimmune component. And then you have different rashes that could be fungal or bacterial in Batigo or ringworm could be bacterial and various tinnie versus color or in the scalp you may see separate dermatitis or cradle cap or dandruff. These all have potential fungal bacterial implications. And psoriasis and eczema and rosacea. I had significant rosacea as a child. And then in school, I mean, I’ve notarization now, but that was strongly tied to gluten for me. So food can have reactions from an autoimmune standpoint and then just from driving inflammation. And then the next thing foods and do is like the scientific article that I talked about earlier and has a major impact on the gut microbiome and that has a major impact on gut permeability. And the more permeable the gut is, the greater chance of more autoimmunity. But the greater chance that food will have more inflammation in the body. Because now that undigested food particles are actually getting into the bloodstream and creating more inflammation. And let’s not forget, I want to highlight one thing. When you actually swallow food, it’s in your tummy. It’s actually still considered outside of your body. So then when you start having more gut permeability and then undigested food particles get into the bloodstream. Now there’s a greater chance of more inflammation in the body. Go ahead.

Evan Brand: Yeah. So we should probably mention histamine as part of this. Now, we’ve done a whole show. We did a whole podcast on this, which I think was really good all about histamine intolerance. But I just want to briefly mentioned that part of this whole cascade of problems that you’re talking us through histamine could be a variable or a factor. So if you’ve got this eczema rosacea piece that could be worsened and if you have a histamine intolerance, which histamine intolerance, once again, kind of like the dermatitis issue that you discussed, that is a byproduct of something. Histamine intolerance doesn’t just exist in a vacuum. It’s happening because of something, so you’ve got to work backwards and figure out why are you having this reaction in the first place? It’s not just go on a low histamine diet. That may be part of the solution, but why do you have to do that?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. I’m going to go pull up here just a couple of pictures that y’all can see. And again, if you’re using Google image to, let’s say, kind of follow some of these skin reactions, just make sure you type in like mild or whatever, because Google image tends to show you the most pathological extreme version of most of these conditions. F.Y.I So you can see here is just some you take care of some hives, you can see kind of these raised little circles here. These are your typical hives, so you can see that. And then of course, your tenia tinnie aversive color. I’ll just type in mild so we don’t get the crazy extremes. So typically you see almost a little bit of hyperpigmentation happen. So this is your skin, it’s actually lightening up. That’s tenia. It looks very similar almost to vitiligo. So vitiligo goes in autoimmune condition. That’s what Michael Jackson had that destroys the pigment. So vitiligo mild. Let’s go look at that real quick. That basically destroys the melanin, the skin that’s autoimmune. But if you look at vitiligo, that’s actually very similar. So you can see kind of some of that hypo pigmentation, right?

Evan Brand: It’s a lot more common, man. You never see anybody with vitiligo. Now, almost every time I go out in public, I see somebody like, oh, that just tells you the world’s become more toxic. There’s more compromised gut barriers.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And then you can see here, you know, various tenia here where it kind of is a little bit of hypo pigmentation. That’s pit psoriasis versus color similar. Again, we’re just kind of going over the common things. We have the various infectious rashes. And then, of course, we have eczema and dermatitis, which are going to be eczema verse, I should say, psoriasis, which are similar to autoimmunity. So you could see typically here we go right here. So you can see psoriasis a little bit more raised and flaky eczema is a little bit more flat to the skin, but they look very, very similar. You need a good dermatologist to kind of help diagnose that. But the nice thing is because it’s autoimmune. You know, we’re gonna be doing similar similar things to fix it.

Evan Brand: There’s a good versus right there. Right there. What’s it say? Go look right there. There’s like a little. That one. Yeah, that one.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’ll do that next. So you can see psoriasis a little bit more flaky and white eczema a little bit more red.

Evan Brand: Here’s our friend, Dr. Jackers pop up in Google Images. Good. Good job, Dr. Doctors. All right. Here. Yeah. Image that that red one that you’re on right now.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s this one here. Oh, good. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Great. Yeah, that’s good. Awesome. Chronic. Lifelong common adult. Autoimmune. The thick. Silvery scales. So it’s really that the silvery ness and then the Eczema’s a little bit more red. All right. And then if they had any actions, can cause that as well. I know with with your wife as well as mine, eggs were a big reaction from my kiddos down the breast milk side. So keeping that in mind is really helpful. Sometimes autoimmune, even when a mom’s breastfeeding can make a big difference with any other skin issues you wanted to look at while we’re here.

Evan Brand: I think those are the most common we encounter.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’ll say one more thing. It can’t those is not your is interesting because a lot of skin stuff that we’ll talk about in a minute on those too mild so we don’t get the crazy stuff. As you’ll see it, a lot of times you’ll see it. It’s very common in African-American women. But yeah, and I think it’s because they’re just more sensitive. Carbohydrate wise is a lot more like insulin resistance issues in the African-American community. But obviously it’s everywhere now. But you’ll see it a lot. It’s just a pigmentation issue around the back of the neck or like you’ll see it in the armpit area right in here. Here. That’s from hyper insulin. That’s from hyper insulin. So too much carbohydrates are going to see a lot of that. Why is that important? Because if you’re consuming too much insulin. Insulin is actually going to drive up your body’s sebaceous glance and it’s gonna cause you to make more sebum and that sebum is actually had impacts on your oil in your skin and that oil is going to feed the bacteria and that bacteria can cause cyst and acne and skin issues. So it’s really important when we look at food, we keep one, the insulin levels down or at least within what you need. OK. If you’re more insulin resistant, that means you have to keep the carbohydrates lower. More vegetables, less fruit and starch. The next one is looking at the inflammation component of the food, keeping the inflammation down. Could that be being autoimmune? Yeah. If you have autoimmune genetics and you’re seeing skin issues popping up that have an autoimmune connection like the ones we just talked about. Yes, some people paleo is enough because paleo, which is cutting out just grains, legumes and dairy, maybe allow some butter. It’s focusing on Whole Foods, meats, vegetables, maybe some fruits, maybe some safe starches, some good fats, except the junky refined process to make a success. That’s usually enough for most people, but some have to go to that paleo template to point out that auto immune template to get that next inflammation buffer.

Evan Brand: Yeah. Like nightshade for were an issue for me for a while, surprisingly with my skin because I would do some of these sauces, you know, just combos of like Jalapeno peppers and tomatoes and all that. And I would have mild rashes that would pop up on my face when I had gut infections. I couldn’t do salsa for quite a while. So I was also probably eating it with organic blue corn chips at the time. So it could have been corn as well.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Could have been corn. That’s why you got some better brands out. Now, the CSA brand makes a good yuga cassava based flower, which are the same things that can be excellent and it’s a safe tuber and it’s gonna be grain free. So you have options like that. So we always start with the diet. Number one, we may do the autoimmune 2.0 next. We also have to look at the gut because gut permeability through either inflammation in the food, poor digestion or despotic bacteria. H. Pylori, various parasites. All those things can make a big difference. Knocking those down and depending on what comes back, we’re gonna create a protocol to address those different things. So of course, we’re not going to go into each things with other podcasts to deal with that. So feel free and take a look at any of our gut bug or Cibo or parasite podcasts. More info. We’ll try to put maybe some links in the references, but keep that in the back of your head. Any any thoughts on that?

Evan Brand: Yeah. We’ll think about when you and I first became friends. About five years ago, my skin was a mess and I had gut bucks. So I. Yeah, like you said, we’re not going to go super into detail, but my diet was good. I was paleo for 3 to 4 years. My skin was still messed up and it was because of my gut bugs.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It had three different infections in your gut that were big. Yep. Yep. You have three different big infections. Next thing I wanted to highlight on top of that, what you mentioned, histamine now histamine, the you to carry your stuff, the more inflammation in your gut. Remember 80 percent of your immune systems in your gut and your gut than your mouth gastric. Associated lymphoid tissue and in the stomach. And then mucosal associate olympe with tissue in the small intestine. The more those immune cells are revved up, it’s gonna be the Basia fills the basia fills when they go outside of your thinking, outside of when they go outside of your blood, into the tissue they create. Matt, they turn into mass cells essentially, and those mast cells produce histamine. So the more your immune system is aggravated and revved up, the more those base officials will move into and migrate over to mass cells and produce histamine. So think of histamine as a natural byproduct of inflammation.

Evan Brand: Makes sense. Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And histamines vasodilators, it opens things up think about it, right. If you bump your eye or bump your head. What happens? Things swell. And why is that happening? It’s happening because the swelling visodilates allows the immune cells to aggravate and calm down the inflammation. The problem is, if it’s not an acute response, meaning I bought my elbow, it’s isolated if it starts to become a systemic issue. Well, now you have systemic histamine issues and now that may manifest as you carry a hives on your skin. It could manifest as tonight’s headaches, right? My migraines, dizziness, those kind of typical Hy-Vee kind of symptoms. And so you really have to get everything under control and maybe even look at cutting out histamine on top of everything else. But we don’t go there unless we’ve already done everything else. And the clinical presentation lead us in that direction.

Evan Brand: Yeah. Like you mentioned, a lot of times, we don’t have to go there because we’re addressing root causes and mold is a big trigger, too. I learned that firsthand with histamine. I was having tons of Marcel slash histamine reactions, just weird things, weird symptoms I’d never had before. Now that I’ve started to detox mold, I’m having less and less what I would consider histamine reactions. And I’m also doing some herbal antihistamines that I continue on a regular basis that really, really helped calm things down. So I’m glad you made the distinction between histamine is a good thing, but when it becomes systemic histamine, that’s not a good thing.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Typically anything acute is OK because it’s designed for a reason. It’s the chronic out of control reactions. We want to really kind of attenuate and calm down because those are the things that are going to be driven by, you know, diet and lifestyle and chronic stressors. So the chronic stressors, we want to make sure they’re on our radar so we can neutralize them.

Evan Brand: Yep. And testing is key. So if you’ve been to your as you mentioned in the beginning, just like my wife, we took her to a dermatologist and they said, oh, yeah, you know, this is this or this is just a generic, you know, fancy term and didn’t have any root cause measures, didn’t talk about changing personal care products, didn’t talk about the diet and talk about food allergies. None of it. It was just, yep, your skin sucks. Here’s some steroids topically. Same thing with the gut. So if you go to a gut doctor and they say you have gastritis. You’re no closer to the answer than you were when you walked in.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. It’s hilarious. People go in, they just get the Latin terminology like, OK. Like, I go to the orthopod. My knees hurting. You have arthritis in your knee? Well, of course, that’s his joint inflammation of the knee. Right. The root cause is not talked about. So regarding skin, sort of, especially with people that have diets to be the first thing to get. And you have to really be 100 percent on the diet to see how much improvement you’re going to get. Now, there is more nuanced stuff. Sometimes you’re going to have issues where eggs or nightshade or nuts could be a problem. And that’s where if you’re not getting the benefit of Paleo 1.0 or just the regular paleo template, this is where an autoimmune template would be utilized next. So first level is paleo. Second level is auto immune.

Evan Brand: Gm because of the chocolate to the chocolates kind of in that same category with chocolate or.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Coffee or coffee too, with histamine. Most don’t have to go to that level to get the benefit. So people that are listening, you don’t have to do autoimmune first. If you know you have an autoimmune issue already diagnosed, then jump on the autoimmune as a shortcut.

Evan Brand: Yep.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Number two, make sure you’re digesting and breaking down your food and your chewing your food up good enough. Make sure you’re chewing your food off. You’re not hydrating with food, with meals. I mean, you can have a couple ounces of water as well as some pills. That’s fine. But you should not be hydrating and trying to actually consume water during those meals to hydrate. Do that 10 minutes or so before two hours after and then make sure you’re really dialing your enzymes and acids so we can better break down those foods. A lot of people in a lot of gut bacterial issues, they create stress in the gut that stress and inflammation in the gut activates the sympathetic nervous system response which will decrease your own internal enzyme, acid and gastric secretions because of the internal stressors. You could be on a beach totally in a Zen like state, but your microbes may be stressed.

Evan Brand: Yeah. Let’s talk about the environment of when and where you’re eating. If you’re driving a car trying to eat a chipotle, a burrito, that’s a terrible idea. If you’re in for me and I think other people experience the negative effects, but maybe they’re just not cognizant of how it’s affecting them. Noisy restaurants. If you go out to a nice steakhouse. But they got freakin a million people there and they got music cranked up so loud. You have to yell to talk to the person across the table from you. That’s a sympathetic stressor. I don’t care how nice the steak is. You’re probably not going to digest it optimally. Think of our ancestors when they were eating a zebra. They’re sitting on the edge of a cliff. You don’t hear friggin anything except the birds. So it’s just not natural to be in a closed building with so much noise where your body is like, alert, alert, alert.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Evan Brand: You’re turning off enzymes and turning cortisol.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And there are things you could do. I mean, you could put you could put on some meditation, music or some some by neural beads, something like that. You can work on your breathing and you could kind of like kind of control everything coming at you input wise. That would help. You could focus on gratitude. All these things activate the sympathetic s deep breaths in all breathing to the nose to activate the parasympathetic. But yeah, one hundred percent control the environment. Number two, you don’t have that much control over the environment than you do extra things regarding the music. What you’re focusing on, the breathing, the breathing is the biggest thing. Anytime you get into a stressful situation, program your body to just breathe deep and breathe through the nose, because the first thing that happens when stress occurs is shallow breathing coming from the mouth and chest. So if you know that and you can just control the breathing and make it come to the nose and keep the belly moving and still do those four to five seconds in and out, then you’re gonna be set. You’re going to have a big control on your sympathetic nervous system.

Evan Brand: That’s good advice. Yeah. I think I forget that sometimes, you know, I hear like the super loud environment. I’m like, oh, god, it’s so loud in here. And I probably jump into sympathetic. I can probably try to counteract it better, but I’d still rather sit in the middle of the woods and eat a sandwich, you know?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hundred percent. Hundred percent. First thing that happens. Is anyone listening? Just focus on the breath. Breathing in through the nose. And then you can go up to the nose to where, out to the mouth. That’s fine. The most important thing is into the nose. That’s the most important thing in about four seconds in hold for a second. Four seconds out. Hold for a second. That’s perfect. That’s great. Now, enzymes, acids, controlling the environment, parasympathetic versus sympathetic nervous system response, right? Parasympathetic. So the break and the relaxation, sympathetic side, the gas, the acceleration that go, go, go, go, go. So we gotta make sure that’s under control. Got to be 100 percent in the diet. Start on paleo. One point I’ll go to auto immune 2.0 and then I would say look at what’s going on with the gut as you address that, make sure we have detox support in place. If we’re having reactions, detox support could be just adding the IRBs in very slowly so we don’t kill things off too fast. The more debris we kill off, it’s like the equivalent of putting imagine your detoxification or your immune or your lymphatic system is really poor or not doing well. That’s like me taking my coffee cup and like saying, hey, this is your trash can like put your trash from your house and that this is your trash can. So we know if you do that, this is gonna be overflowing before the morning’s over. Right. So that overflowing is gonna be symptoms, skin issues, headaches, joint pain, all of those things. So number one is we can take the cup up and change, you know, take the garbage out. A lot of times to make sure it doesn’t overflow. And we would do that through lymphatic support. We would do that through titrating the herbs. And very slowly we would do that and through binding support. We may do that through sulphur, amino acids and or glutathione or extra antioxidants to support phase one or extra for Amano’s for phase two. It would depend on each patient so we can taper it up so we don’t put too much garbage in. Number two, we can support the lymph, which essentially allows things to move better and then support that detoxification. And as that gets better and we support those systems, it’s like we’re kind of bringing in a new garbage pail instead of the cob. Now we have the bigger mug and then we have the small garbage pail and the bigger one. And so we kind of upgrade each time as we titrate things up and support the limb, support the detox, support the binding support and elimination.

Evan Brand: Yeah. And it’s always a little bit of a seesaw, right. Like when you say it like that, it sounds so easy. It’s like take lymph. Take Lemp support. IRBs take liver support. IRBs take glutathione and you’ll be in good shape. But the truth is, when we’re working with people, it’s highly individualized because depending on how long you’ve been sick, depending on how many layers you have to your illness or your symptoms, you may not be able to handle it. For example, if I do too much glutathione, I feel bad. But if I do none, I feel bad. So I think of it like it’s like a tightrope is kind of my analogy. So it’s like if you do nothing, you fall off the tightrope to the left and you’re symptomatic. If you have it dialed in perfectly for you, you’re walking the tightrope to the finish line. But if you do too much, you fall off the other side. And so like as people get better when we’re doing follow up calls, we may be tweaking the dose. Whereas before they could only handle 2 capsules of a liver support complex with milk thistle and beet powder and artichoke and all that. But now they can handle four capsules. And so it’s not where we want you to just like go to Whole Foods, buy a liver supplement and expect it to make all your problems go away with your skin. You’ve really got to have a coordinated plan. And as you get better or as you get worse or new stressors come in, you’ve got to back the dosing down. So like for me, when I was going through gut work, if I was really stressed, I couldn’t handle the full dose of anti parasitic IRBs. I had to cut it in half. And then when I was less stressed, like you and I talk about this idea of like do things on a weekend when you’re not a stress and try supplements, it’s the same concept with this other of the detox pathways.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: One hundred percent. So it’s pushing catch, right. Push, meaning we’re stressing potentially stressing out already talk system through various killing and then catching is we’re eliminate we’re supporting our lymph ah detox, our phase one, our phase two to and making sure we’re actually having regular bowel movements. We’re making sure all these things are happening so we can eliminate things. And when we talk about binders, binders aren’t perfect. Imagine you have a whole bunch of iron filings on the table and I just take a magnet and I just kind of pull it through. Will the magnet grab every single iron filing there? No, there’s going to be some stragglers. Right. But it’s going to grab a good chunk. So think of that as like charcoal or bentonite clay or activated charcoal or zehle light or citrus, packed ends or corella, whatever binder we use for whatever that iron filing is, there’s got to be some debris left behind. That’s why we want to do multiple doses the day and we want to taper up. So we’re not overwhelming our system with too many iron filings, so to speak. The iron filings be being reminiscent of the debris that’s left behind.

Evan Brand: Yeah. So just to say it the other way, you can make yourself worse by doing too much. Binder’s right. It sounds really sexy. Let’s bind to the toxin. I mean, it’s going to take tons of charcoal. Mm hmm. I made myself worse. I was doing like six caps. A child. You couldn’t hold more things out. You could pull more things, that’s why we taper into everything. Yeah, I did like six capsules of charcoal for a while and I felt amazing. I was like a new man. And then I went up more like eight or 10 capsules a day and it was too much.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I got to remember, you call me that night. You’re like, man, I’m feeling really dizzy. And.

Evan Brand: I think that might have been the day I did a double dose of glutathione.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That was good. And you’re right. I think I talk all about maybe doing more charcoal to counteract that. Yeah. I remember the charcoal.

Evan Brand: Same thing, though. I like in that situation, charcoal was the remedy. But before charcoal was the was the provocation, if you will. It was the bad guy because I did too much in my analogy of that. One is like you have a bad girlfriend and you’re kicking her out of the house. And so she’s like taken the pictures off the wall and throwing them down the hallway like there’s this collateral damage of you kicking her out. Same thing with the toxin when you’re dragging the toxin out, especially if you have a permeable gut barrier. I think if it is like these toxins reabsorbed back into the bloodstream, like the goal is pull them through the intestinal tract. But if the intestinal tract is compromised, you’re gonna have re absorption. So I can’t prove this 100 percent. But my theory and thought on this is that if your gut barrier is in better shape, we measure the secretory IGA. The gut is less leaky or not leaky, hopefully. And theoretically Binder’s would be more tolerated versus someone where we see a super leaky gut. Binder’s may make them worse. They may need to titrate very slowly. What do you think? What’s your thoughts on that?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think you’re 100 percent right. Everything you have to ease into it. And that’s why we always start with diet and hydration digestion first, because that’s where most people’s stressors are coming from. And we want that foundation kind of just dial them, because if they’re able to digest and break down their food better, then they’re extracting the antioxidants and the B vitamins and the sulfur amino acid from their food. And if we’re breaking it down, then they’re getting those nutrients in. There’s less stress that the food kind of fermenting and rotting behind. And then we’re making sure that they’re having regular bowel movements. So we’re eliminating toxins and then we’re making sure we’re getting enough hydration. The solution to pollution is dilution. And then if we’re also more sensitive, we can lean more on the talks vacation from sweating. We could do infrared near infrared sauna. We could even do just some gentle red light therapy, which can help with skin issues, too. On the outside, it can really help reduce the inflammation of the active skin lesions. These are really good ways to kind of start things out. We can progress from Paleo 1.0 to autoimmune 2.0 if we need, and that’s probably one of the first good steps. Any any feedback on the foundation steps, Evan?

Evan Brand:The part about pooping regularly. You briefly mentioned it, but that could be literally the biggest piece of the puzzle is simply just addressing chronic constipation in someone. If they’ve been doing diuretics like coffee and teas and they’re not getting enough water, I can’t tell you how many times you and I’ve seen people’s skin improve just by getting them to go poop two to three times a day versus they used to poop every other day or some people once a week, which is just scary. It’s like what you’re eating three times a day for seven days and only one poop comes out per week. That is terrible. No wonder he got bad skin.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, I know. There’s a famous gastroenterologist named Match knock-off mecs knock-offs quoted his famous quote, As life and death starts in the colon. And part of that it is just being able to have regular BMR and move your stools at least 12 inches a stool a day. If not, you are gonna have what’s called auto intoxication, right? Auto meaning self intoxication, self poisoning from not pushing the debris out of your body. That’s like not taking out your garbage for a couple of weeks and the flies and maggots start to come home. The rest of the speech speak and that’s not good. So we have to make sure those foundational things are done. I can’t underestimate water, right. The solution to pollution is dilution so that 10 times fast. The solution, right. The solution to pollution to toxins is dilution. So you deluded down. Right. So more water helps make everything go round. Right. That’s really important. Let’s talk about lymph. Some a big fan of making sure the lymph is supported. So there’s various tinctures that we use professionally, different lines that we use. There are some individual IRBs that we can do. low-hanging fruit is going gonna be ginger. Ginger is really, really excellent with lymph. So is red roots and so was burdock. Those are my two or three favorite kind of limp supports the kind of keep things moving outside of various tinctures that we use.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’ve got limb support right here on my desk. So one that I didn’t even know about maybe a year ago was Cleaver’s. And so my lymph blend is, yes, red root, which is also great for the spleen. We love using Red Root for Lyme and co-infection. Eckard Neisha would also create a sedative. Yep. And then we’ve got the Cleaver’s. And then this other one that I didn’t know about is Baptista like like you’re getting a baptism by your root. And so. Here’s a funny story real quick. I think stories are helpful because like we get an educating mode, then I think people like story time. OK, so, you know, I had tested for some bartonella antibodies and for Busia and so I was playing around with some of these Bartonela and bebesia herbs. And within about half an hour of doing that, I got a super bad headache. And I thought, you know what? I wonder if this is lymphatic related. Maybe I’m killing off these pathogens and my lymphatic system is overwhelmed. So what did I do? I took three shots of lymphatic blend of verbs. And guess what? The headache magically went away. I didn’t do anything else. I didn’t drink a ton of water. I didn’t take charcoal. All I did was go from taking the Basis Bartonella killers to take an extra lymphatic support. And the headache disappeared. And I was like, oh my God, this is a miracle. Like the lymphatic system is super underrated. And I think it’s the missing component to a lot of people’s detox protocols. 

Evan Brand Doing that I got a super bad headache and I thought you know what. I wonder if this is lymphatic related. Maybe I’m killing off these pathogens and my lymphatic system is overwhelmed. So what did I do. I took three shots of lymphatic blend verbs and guess what the headache magically went away. I didn’t do anything else. I didn’t drink a ton of water I didn’t take charcoal. All I did was go from taking the BCA Barton fellow killers to take an extra lymphatic support and the headache disappeared and I was like Oh my God this is a miracle like the lymphatic system is super underrated. And I think it’s the missing component to a lot of people’s detox protocols. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting I 100 percent agree. By the way the Baptisia herb is the same thing as wild Indigo my g i clear too which is my H pylori killer I have wild Indigo or Baptista in there and then also my g clear for which is my bigger bug killer. I did formulate that with burdock root. Burdock root is very very very good and then some of the female hormone herbal supports will actually have red root in it because red fruit is excellent for limp so women premenstrual t into menstruation may get a little bit more swelling little retention red you can be helpful and the next one that’s really good is poke root poke root is really good especially for mastitis poke root is excellent. 

Evan Brand: So here’s some here’s something interesting when you start to up regulate these detox pathways and you up regulate lymphatic drainage your pee smells way different I don’t know how much you’ve played with lymphatic support but when I start bumping up limp support and liver support the urine will just smell way different especially red root because I believe red root specifically is one of the ERs that helps to drain the excess ammonia and a lot of these bacterial pathogens you and I are talking about we can measure the robotic acid on the organic acids panel and that’ll show ammonia at all. So when you drain this stuff out you can smell the change like if you’re human pee smells like Cappie to me you know you’re on the right track of draining that excess ammonia out of your system. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: H pylori will also convert some of the protein metabolism into ammonia as well and ammonia is very alkaline too so it actually will disrupt digestion. That’s part of the reason why or how H pylori makes you gut less acidic because part of their urea metabolism from urea to urea right H pylori makes this enzyme called Ureae. You know it’s an enzyme because of the ASC at the end and ureae hits the urea which is from protein metabolism and spits off CO2 and ammonia that ammonia is got a p h of eleven so that decreases your stomach acid levels makes it less acidic so digestion goes downhill and then you have higher CO2 levels hence the the CO2 Urea breath test will come back positive for H pylori so yeah one hundred percent and typically I’m not a big person that has a lot of die off my big die off symptom will be a little bit of fatigue and a little bit of skin stop but some people have significant die off issues and the more your health is kind of gone downhill the more you may have die off symptoms and he’s gonna have to be aware of that. 

Evan Brand: What do you say the longer you’ve been sick too. I think the timeline of time is a big role. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes because I think it takes time to get your immune system hyper reactive like that takes time. Yep absolutely. Anything else you wanted to work on addressing now. Before we go into some questions. 

Evan Brand: Well why don’t we just mentioned the testing then that we would be using to investigate these issues. There’s not like there’s not a lymphatic test to measure your lymphatic system. You know you can really just look at symptoms you can look at any potential edema as you can have people do like self lymphatic massage and if they get better or worse from it you know lymph is a factor you’ve got swollen lymph nodes you can look at some of the clinical signs but there’s not like a test where you go and pee in a cup and it says your lymphatic are not working we’re primarily going to be looking at other markers to indicate the system as a whole select organic acids testing is always part of our workup genetic stool testing is always part of the workup blood testing can be helpful because you mentioned some of the specialized white blood cells we may look at those to gauge the immune system overall but without the data you’re really just guessing and checking. So that’s why I say don’t just buy a liver support figure out what the heck is going on first. Are you recycle leading toxins like are you. Are you bringing toxins through an open loop where you’re getting them out or is it a closed loop like [inaudible] issues that are too high due to bacterial overgrowth that’s a big issue the big mechanism we fix. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. So input is going to be decrease all the toxins coming in. Organic food whole food making sure you’re digesting your food enough water decreasing all you know having high quality food decreases the antibiotics decreases pharmaceutical load in the food because animals or plants were sprayed with them if not organic and then also enough water right solution to pollution is dilution so that’s kind of our first starting point and we can also look at our hygiene products right skincare soaps deodorants make sure we’re not rubbing a whole bunch of toxins on it make sure we’re pooping regularly at least 12 inch of the stool really good solid poopy policeman number four in the Bristol a days ideal and then we can kind of work on pushing things out whether it’s cleaning out the guts supporting phase one or phase two detoxification phase ones to be more B vitamins and antioxidants Phase 2s and to be more sulfur amino acids including my own and then our various binders that we may use depending on what’s happening and then various lymphatic support and then of course we’re going to work with patients and dial that in 100 percent and the diet’s got to be really really really solid. 

Evan Brand: Yeah. Please don’t wear scented products. It destroys me but it destroys you too. So. Your laundry detergent. Think about it you’re wearing those clothes all day and your skin is absorbing that. So if you’re wearing you know Tide detergent it’s garbage. Get rid of that crap go free and clear. Even if you’re not going with more of the quote like organic brands even your conventional mainstream laundry detergent brands now make free and clear. Like all is a very cheap brand. They have four in clear words not synthetic fragrance. Stop using dryer sheets. Use wool balls if you have to. They last forever. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s what I have. I have the wool balls. 

Evan Brand: I’m sure that those won’t be staticky. So you and I were kind of chatting about it off air. The chemicals that people wear on their clothes. Ninety nine out of 100 people in my experience have a smell to them. So whether it’s a cologne a perfume a dryer sheet a laundry detergent. It’s toxic stuff going into your skin so you could just have your diet dialed in. But what are you doing everyday you’re spraying your neck and your wrist with this perfume that you think other people want to smell. That goes into your bloodstream. Those are toxic chemicals. I’ve had clients that are in the perfume industry and they can hide thousands and thousands of chemicals under that quote fragrance term. So there’s actually a documentary about fragrances. I think it was called stinky but it was just about how dirty the industry is of chemicals and none of this stuff is tested on humans long term. It’s just it might smell quote good but you don’t know what the heck it is. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Absolutely and I had a patient who had some skin issues this last week and a lot of her gut symptoms got a lot better and she was improving in other ways but her skin was still lagging behind. She did a little bit of research and she found that she actually had a skin parasite and this could be. Let’s say I call it put it on the X Factor category where if you’re doing a lot of the foundational things and maybe a lot of the first level gut stuff and you’re still not seeing any improvement in the skin. This would be a good area to look. This is a parasite is called Demo decks and it can create inflammation in the follicle and there are some various ointments or topical things you can put on your skin actually help some of these things. 

Evan Brand: Ask Is this something that you would fix from the inside out with into microbial. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well you do it on the inside but these things live on the follicle of the skin so you have to topically apply things to get these things under control. There are some formulas that have some herbs in them like a stragglers in such them oriental medicine type of herbs but it’s going to be more topical. 

Evan Brand: And what’s the conventional medical model say about this. What are they doing. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You know what. I don’t even know what the conventional medical model is because it’s so undiagnosed it tends to be missed. 

Evan Brand: I’ve seen tiny mite. I’ve seen this on people violations. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  They go on the eyelashes. But again the key thing is that these things tend to hit people that are gonna be immunocompromised. 

Evan Brand: Yeah go into that pub med right there. Let’s see with that in 2014. Yeah. Yeah. Let’s see what it says. This is interesting. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So this is a potential vector. I kind of put in the X Factor category so you people are on top of it so it’s a various might and they can live and they can create inflammation. So look it’s a tiny parasitic mites that live near hair follicles but they can affect the skin as well, they say. 

Evan Brand: They say like quick treatment but it didn’t say anything about treatment. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Let’s let’s see what kind of let’s say we got here for treatment. Yeah. So here you go. Another useful feature is the composite the the scale but mine. Yeah. Escape aside lindane or lindane. Oh I think lindane is pretty darn toxic now. 

Evan Brand: I’ve heard of lindane and I don’t know whether to lend lindane as well. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And lindane I’m pretty sure. So you can see they get on their skin as well. So they have it here as well so there’s a little mites in here but I’m pretty sure lindane is pretty darn toxic. I mean you see it is that any other treatment options. Yep. So there’s there’s various methods but I’m pretty sure lindane is pretty darn toxic. So you gotta be careful though. But in general there are options there and there are some natural ones as well. 

Evan Brand: Oh yeah. There you go. Yeah right there on right go up on Wikipedia. There it is. When lindane agricultural insecticide. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. So you’re putting an insecticide on your on your skin. 

Evan Brand: When it absorbs. You know it’s going to absorb and. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absorb and go through your body through your liver. For sure. Yep. But there are some herbs that are out there that are in Oriental kind of soft type of form that you can topically apply as well. 

Evan Brand: And then you think approaching antimicrobials in the gut would probably help this. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think you should still go through everything and then potentially try a good topical thing on the backsides of it. 

Evan Brand: I hate to go on lindane. I mean I guess if you’re miserable, you’ve got to do what you gotta do. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well I would do the topical things first that are gonna be more on the healthy side. I’ll see if I can pull it up here in a minute. There’s some good topical ones that are out there that may be good options. I’ll have that. 

Evan Brand: I actually had a client that brought that it brought that to me. She said I have a think she said it was scabies I guess that was the same thing scabies and one of the same family on her on her eyelashes. And nobody had any answers so I just suggested coconut oil because I figured coconut oil was a sort of an antimicrobial antiviral and I just had to rub coconut oil right here on the top of the eyelid. And she did get somewhat better it wasn’t complete resolution from that alone though. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting. Interesting. I’ll pull up a couple of things here that people can do. 

Evan Brand: We didn’t talk about coconut oil but I think that would be a good first line of defense. Topical solution. I mean we use that for my daughters our first daughters cradle cap because coconut is sort of an antifungal in time microbial the carpet like acid in the model Lauren in there. Those are both really good. Really good topical but also internal. So eating coconut oil could help too. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes exactly. And yet the medication that this person tried and didn’t have to get success with it was basically just a sulfa a sulfur and zinc oxide cream. 

Evan Brand: Interesting. And it worked. Yep. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. Worked very well. So it was a sulfur kind of and zinc oxide cream. It’s exactly what it was. 

Evan Brand: That seems easy enough. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I put up a couple of the the visual people can see it. So they can have some good options. 

Evan Brand: Was that like a prescribed thing or is it something you could just get over the counter. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  This was an over-the-counter thing. 

Evan Brand: Wonder how sulfur would do that. Maybe it just kills it. Maybe the thing can’t breathe in sulfur. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes sulfur has a natural antimicrobial effect. Let me go pull up my screen here. 

Evan Brand: All right. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So here’s one for the demo decks. Can you see my screen yet. Yep. I see it it’s got some crazy Chinese letters on zinc oxide sulfur supplement. And again this website is demodex so it’s And it has a lot of good options for topical demodex and this was shared to me by my patient. That’s right. So it’s good. I want to put it out there. It’s an X factor it’s not though it’s not gonna be the first thing you go to. 

Evan Brand: Go up go down just a hair. I like it said something in the description go down just a little bit. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh I’m sorry. Yep. It’s going to be zinc oxide and sulfur. 

Evan Brand: OK so it says here. I mean they’re talking a lot of stuff microbial fungal demodex they’re talking it can soften epidermis. It can’t be in the treatment of acne as well steroid induced rosacea. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah I mean topical zinc isn’t the be great. The nice thing about these things you can do it for a lot of other things so it be worth giving it a try. Here’s another one as well. And I asked me endemic X cream. I mean you could see this thing has a couple of herbs in here as well. We try to find the ingredients. 

Evan Brand: We learn so much from working with people clinically. Yes so so great. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Simone roots. Moneri seeds Bristol Chinese carnations. A couple of different things and I sensed experiments aren’t the best but I mean hey you know this is designed to be the cute type of treatment. So hopefully that gives some people a couple of ideas here. Is a good option. 

Evan Brand: Very cool. This is the stuff we learn by working with people. You’re not going to find this at your dermatologist’s office. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: No is great my patient was able to share that with me and we were able to get it out there and it’s not going to be the first thing that people who have skin issues should go to. But if you tried a lot of things. Hey put it in your back pocket. Give it a try. This thing is we’re all results driven. There’s no there’s no dogma here right. It’s all about getting results. 

Evan Brand: Yep I think that’s all we need to cover. I hit the testing I don’t know if you wanted to say anything about testing that you do there is like patch testing and stuff like that but you know we’re not dermatologists so we’re not running patch testing. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Get the gut dialed in. Feel free and go see a good dermatologist to just get things ruled out. If they kind of give you the diagnosis the diagnoses that we’ve already talked about fine you know that makes sense isn’t to be things like Perry oral that can be caused by other issues whether rubbing too much experimental stuff on your skin or as a female. Birth control pills can cause Perioral dermatitis. That’s a unique situation because more topical things like coconut oil can actually make it worse. So just keep an eye on that it’s always good to at least get a diagnosis to know what you’re dealing with and that way you can make sure the root cause is under control. 

Evan Brand: I just wish dermatologists were more root cause. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: They aren’t at least if you get the diagnosis though then you can listen to this podcast and try to connect to the root cause. 

Evan Brand: But if you’re listening if you’re listening and you’re a paleo dermatologist please reach out to us. We would love to speak with you. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We’d love to speak with you. Love a good referral base for these kind of things. Excellent. Any questions Evan you want to dive into. 

Evan Brand: I don’t haven’t pulled up. So why don’t you tell me if there’s any good ones. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah there’s a lot of things we kind of already addressed.I keep on having boils under my arm every time I shave usually resolves on its own. Is there an underlying issue I should worry about. I mean it just depends. Obviously there’s a follicle inflammation issue that’s happening. If it’s only happening with shaving I mean these are some kind of lubricant that you could put in maybe use a coconut oil or shea butter or just some kind of a natural soap lather that will provide a little bit more support from the friction. If it’s only happening from that so hard to say there Sebastian writes in. Thanks for all the awesome information. Always this is goal I’ve gone through a lot of what you guys are mentioning awesome and know how it all unfolds and the causes. Thanks so much Sebastian and then Sean Rice and I had a reoccurring sub dermatitis in the beard area past four years sent in Genova dis biopsies and suspect it’s Candida. Yeah so there’s some really good antimicrobial shampoos that you can do topically but you want to hit on the inside and out. And again I have them on my site just in health outcomes. I shop on recommended products I have some Amazon links to some of those creams and soaps there. 

Evan Brand: I would love to see you grow a beard I’ve never seen you grow a beard. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s been a while man. It’s been a while. I think it’s been about six years. But yeah I may pull it off this winter we’ll see. 

Evan Brand: When I when I tried to grow a beard. I notice I always touch my face more and I think back and contribute to what this guy was mentioning with his skin. Anytime I got a lot of hair I’m always touching my face and who knows what’s on your skin oils and bacteria and other things. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s totally true. Sean writes in very clean LCD based whole food diet but I think I need to eradicate with antimicrobials. Yep that’s the next step Sean Ashley writes in can candida die off make you dizzy and weak. Yes it can. It totally can. New dive systems come and go like last couple hours then go away and come back. Yeah I mean they can definitely oscillate for sure. Evan you agree. 

Evan Brand: Oh absolutely and if you’re you know if you can go you know drink more water as you said dilute and then go pee and take lymphatic support maybe some kidney support. You have a global movement. Maybe that will help lessen the die off but also when I feel bad I’ll do just a little bit of charcoal. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100 percent which can cause dry big flaky patches in the hairline that’s gonna be your substrate dermatitis which tends to be more fungal based. Can Diop be exacerbated by passing hard and dry stools. I seen people that do pass stools either they have an issue meaning intensive intensification or they actually feel better so it can definitely the passing of things can definitely shift what’s happening in your gut as well. Dennis writes It is their first but it’s bad for your health. Yeah they are basically it’s an aluminum molecule that’s dehydrated that that then expands and clogs the poor and makes it impossible for you to sweat these welds there. So definitely not good. You rather have something that allows you to sweat but has natural anti-microbial qualities that kills the bacteria that produces the not so nice smell. You know you can do that with shea butter or coconut oil or very very much very certain parts of the coconut oil like a public acid tends to be more anti-microbial. Sean says that high morning cortisol and very high DHEA some sort of got dysbiosis as well will sort of dressing will be the connection. Well inflammation in the gut causes inflammation in the body and in your stress handling system tries to deal with that. Aaron writes in Is there a relation between skin disorders and chronic Lyme. Definitely can be lyme is a stressor on the body and that’s the stressor on the liver and detoxification and that can easily affect the gut as well. Anytime you have inflammation in the body it’s a major stress ball in your stress bucket and when you’re stressed buckets full systems in your body don’t function optimally. And people that have Lyme can have other co infections like Evan knows about like the busier about Nella. 

Evan Brand: Yeah and you know those are all immune suppressants. Right. And so when your immune system is depressed bacteria viruses fungi those can all take the forefront and take you down. So part of resolving that would have to be supporting the immune system while trying to remove the microbes or at least get the microbes back in balance. There’s this debate about whether you can fully kill Lyme. I don’t know. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah we can definitely least knock it down so it’s not as big of an issue on the immune system for sure. And then regarding dry.. Barb writes in What About dry issues with skin like water lesions so first thing is make sure we have enough collagen and good building blocks to have healthy skin right cultured amino acids are great. And then if we’re having like some kind of skin tag type of things one make sure the insulin is under control because more insulin will cause those contacts. And the number two you can always get like a little cotton ball and sop it up with apple cider vinegar and then like that kind of like get a Band-Aid or like a wrap and wrap it up against that lesion and a lot of times it will fall off. You can also make like an apple cider vinegar tumor type of like pull this and then put it on a Band-Aid or end a cotton swab and then tape it to your skin that can help those lesions just kind of fall away. 

Evan Brand: Maybe a little bit of tea tree mixed in with that would be good. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: A little bit of Melaleuca or a tea tree. Yep that’s great too two thoughts on CBD pretty talks. I mean it’s not going to be what I would use for detoxification but has other good immune benefits mood benefits anti inflammatory benefits but it would be my first thought. For detoxification. 

Evan Brand: CBD is like the new raspberry ketone remember I like five years ago there was raspberries Down where. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah yeah yeah. More the the green coffee extract right. That was the big one. Things get really trendy right. Sean writes in do you treat patients outside of Texas via phone and email. Yes I do. Evan does as well. So see Evan. We see patients all over the world and for myself see patients in Texas and all over the world. You are welcome Sean. Evan anything else you want to add today. 

Evan Brand: I think I said we can wrap it up. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And they just a little thing we always put it out there every time if you guys are enjoying this podcast give me a thumbs up. We’d like to know in the comments that you guys have done that haven’t been successful. I read those comments and I take that information and I incorporate it into my kind of mental tool bank so to speak and apply it as necessary. So let me know your comments or what’s helped you. What makes you feel better and if you enjoy it share with one person that you know in your life that could benefit ninety nine point nine percent of people we help. We do it without even seeing them. And that’s the power of internet. We appreciate you guys spreading the good word. 

Evan Brand: Yep. Take care. We’ll see you all next week. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Have a phenomenal week y’all. Take care. Bye now. 

Evan Brand: Bye bye.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Bye.


Audio Podcast:


Skin Health and Autoimmunity | Podcast #202

The skin is a window into what’s happening in the gut. While it is true that a lot of potential skin irritants are everywhere, one might try to consider that everything going on on the inside is reflected on the outside.

Watch the video and learn about skin issues, effects of gut health to skin, autoimmune conditions, and effective ways and preventive measures to make the surface reflect the way we wanted it to be.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

In this episode, we cover:

01:00    Gut health mirror the skin

06:09    Administer nutrients inside-out

11:02    Topical irritants

15:27    Bowel movement affects skin health

17:48    Histamine issues, genetics, and excessive insulin

20:38    Autoimmune domino effect


Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey there it’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani, hope you all had a fabulous weekend. I’m in a house here with Evan Brand. Evan, how we doing my friend?

Evan Brand: Happy Monday man. Hey look, I was talkin’ about the sunny weather but I’m gonna complain today it’s rainy and grace guys so, today is a good day to just hang out. I’m gonna sit by my infrared Sauna lamp that I have here and just try to stay warm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey, that’s wonderful man really good idea. Well, I’m excited to dig in today in this topic of Skin Health and Autoimmunity.

Evan Brand: This is huge!

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah it’s a powerful topic. I mean, we know that the immune system and the gut are intimately connected ’cause about 80 percent of your immune cells live in your gut and the MALT and the GALT the– mucus associated lymphoid tissue, lymphoid meaning lymphocytes which is another name for–for blood cells or wh— white blood cells and then we have our–our GALT which is our gastric-associated lymphoid tissue that’s in the stomach and then the MALT is in the uhm— small intestines. We know the guts and the immune function interact totally and then we also know that– uhm— the guts mirror the skin. People that have inflamed gut– uhm— dysbiosis infections malabsorption that shows and manifest itself in the skin we have pathologies that can even manifest from various rashes from lupus rashes uhm— erythema to– psoriasis, to vitiligo, to eczema, other types of various dermatitises to alopecia with the hair uhm— so– I mean you name it, right. The skin is a window into what’s happening in the gut.

Evan Brand: Yeah, I’ve got some statistics here. Was a good way to open up. This is from the CDC; this is actually 6 years old so it’s probably even worst than what this study shows but they were looking at from 2010 to–or from 2000-2010, the percentage of children aged 17 and younger with eczema or any kind of skin allergy and the levels across basically all races pretty much doubled, just from 2000 and 2010. So I bet 2010 and 2020 we’re probably gonna see an even more rapid spike of skin issues. I mean I can’t tell you when the last time I went out in public and did not see someone with the skin issue, I mean you go to a shopping mall, you go to a grocery store like you’re gonna see skin issues. It’s a very very common thing and even just look back at some of my old YouTube videos. I remembered Justin you saying, “Man I bet you got something going in your gut” ’cause my acne used to be so bad on my chin–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: –it was all the dysbiosis in my gut. So, we’re definitely gonna chat about that today too about infections.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, you even have a lot of rosacea too which is a sign of inflammation on the skin. Now, that’s important because when I see someone that has some kind of a skin issue that tells me that there’s some type of autoimmune or internal inflammatory thing happening inside the body especially the gut. So when I see skin issue the first thing I look at is potential food allergens. And we would move someone to like a paleo-slash-autoimmune-paleo template. And then we know other nutrients are really important so if we have poor digestion the chance of us breaking down fat-soluble vitamins like Vitamin-A go down. We know the ability to digest and absorb and assimilate zinc goes down. Healthy fish oil fats like Omega-3 go down. Vitamin-C which is really important for that collagen matrix goes down. Biotin which is a– uh– a– a B-Vitamin family. Selenium, uhm— Silica, uh– Vitamin K2, uh– sulfur amino acids, Vitamin-E, Vitamin-D, of course a lot of our collagen amino acid which are very high in proline– hydroxyproline, glycine which are really important building blocks for the skin so we need to absorb and assimilate and utilize all of these important nutrients. And we need good digestive function, we need a– gut lining that’s not inflamed, and we need enough adequate enzymes and acids to be able to break everything down. And of course, dysbiosis, SIBO, bacterial overgrowth, fungal overgrowth, and or parasite infections that H-pylori, could easily be a– a factor that prevents that from happening optimally.

Evan Brand: Yeah I was gonna say let me take you down to zinc rabbit hole a little further ’cause this is really important based on my history–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-huh.

Evan Brand: –the skin issues. I had H-pylori, I showed up positive with a– on my second test on my stool. I first showed up a parasites, cleared those out. Second round on the re-test, you know, Justin I see this every single week on lab results, you know, sometimes we clear out a client’s gut of some infection, and then on the re-test a new infection shows up. And that’s what happend for me, H-pylori showed up. And– so if I was eating grass-fed steaks, I was eating Bison, I was eating all– all these really good high quality pastured meats. However, I was not getting any of the zinc to be cleaved off of those meats because how poor my digestion was. And also, there’s a marker we look at called calprotectin. My levels were elevated so I had gut inflamations. So even if– I had good meat, it’s not about what you eat, it’s about what you digest from what you eat which why we always hit on the acid and enzyme piece so much, so for me– I mean, I could’ve uh– could’ve used supplemental enzymes and I did but that’s not– that’s not the– that’s not the root cause. I had to dig deeper so, you know, we tried to compare conventional, naturopathic functional medicine like a naturopath, may say, hey, you know, you may need some extra acid and enzymes but they may never go to the next level of investigation  which is hey, do you have infections that we have to– fix that explains why your acids and enzymes are low in the first place. And then, just a quickly compared to the conventional medicine approach that these type of skin issues whether they’re autoimmune or not, it’s gonna be all the garbage that you probably already know about. A steroid creams, and– immunomodulators, antihistamines, what else do the conventional docs do? It’s not good, it’s– I mean, it doesn’t work–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:Yeah, I mean you have your antibiotics, you have your immunosuppressants, you have your uhm— corticosteroid which kind of fit into that same family. And then you have your synthetic Vitamin-A type of uh– retinol, and then you have the internal Vitamin-A that’s synthetic which should be like the uhm— not– not the tetracycline; the tetracyclines the common antibiotic Evan, and then you have accutane which is a Vitamin-A analogue and you gotta be careful if you’re a woman because if you get pregnant while on that you can have birth defects ’cause it is tritogenic.

Evan Brand: Oh my gosh.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:Those are the common things for the most part. I mean it’s gonna be antibiotics, immunosuppressants, corticosteroids, they’ve the vitamin– and don’t get me wrong, the Vitamin-A could be helpful. I’d recommend using Vitamin-A on the skin. Try to do it with retinoic acid natural derivatives which you don’t need a prescription for and that can be really helpful because it can provide uh– important building blocks for collagen elasticity and then you can even do a topical Vitamin-C as well. Of course, we wanna get all these things internally, right? But if we do it inside out, then we get a winning team what we can get results much faster is that we can topicly hit something. You can bring those nutrients directly to that area. And then if you can internally do it with good quality fat-soluble vitamins from animal products, from liver, from healthy grass-fed vital with a Vitamin-K2, of course, collagen either from bone broth or collagen shake. I mean, these can all be amazing uhm— resources to get extra nutrition in for your body.

Evan Brand: Oh and here’s the thing I wanna point out: you have to do both. You’re talking about– okay, sure, do the topical stuff. Great. Instead of steroids, maybe do topical Vitamin-C serum, maybe some topical Vitamin-A. But you still always have to work backwards towards the gut. So first step, if you have skin issues, get your gut check, get a stool test done because it’s very likely that you have some type of dysbiosis going on. Here’s the thing that’s crazy to me, I said you’ll get put on the antibiotics for a skin issue, it’s like , “Okay, your gut is the problem”. So we’re gonna come in with antibiotics, we’re gonna kill even more of your good bacteria, we’re gonna mess up your gut even more to try to fix your skin. I mean, that is such a backwards mindset.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:Exactly. So couple of other autoimmune condition: we mentioned psoriasis, we mentioned vitiligo, uhm— we mentioned eczema which is now in the last year or two starting to be thought of as an autoimmune condition. Rosacea is now starting to be thought of as an autoimmune condition. There’s a– dermatomiositis which is another type of condition where that dermal layer is starting to become significantly inflamed as– there’s Epidermolysis bullosa – another condition. Again, these conditions they have the same underlying mechanism as inflammation. The difference in the diagnoses is how the inflammation manifest.

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: If it manifest with psoriatic symptoms, right? Then that’s psoriasis if m– if wer— manifest in eczema symptoms. And eczema and psoriasis are very, very similar typically psoriasis is a little bit more flaky, it can peel, and– and get bloody a little bit easier. Uh– vitiligo is gonna be autoimmune that affects the melanin in the skin and then so if you’re doc for skin complexion, you’ll see your skin go white. Think of like Michael Jackson, right? When he started wearing the– the glove on the left hand, right? In the 80’s, that glove was to hide the first sign of his melasma or let’s just say not his melasma his vitiligo. Melasma is another skin issue that tends to be form hyperpigmentation primarily from hormonal issues like the birth control pill, or uh– being pregnant, they call it pregnancy mask. Again that’s not in the autoimmune camp, that’s more of a hormonal thing, but gut function can have an impact on that because digestion is really important for– healthy digestion’s really important for metabolizing hormones ’cause it goes and gets pumped out the liver, to the gall bladder back into the intestinal track. And if we have bacterial overgrowth like uhm— dysbiotic bacteria like in SIBO, that can produce an enzyme called β-glucuronidase, and if you go to Google and type β-glucuronidase and estrogen, you’ll find that β-glucuronidase uncleaves conjugated estrogens. Conjugated means there’s a protein bound to the estrogen so then it can get metabolized. When it de-conjugate to the– pulls the estrogen off that protein, and now it can go back in systemic circulation and have a hormonal-like effect. So, things like gut function can play huge impact with hormones and those hormones can easily impact your skin as well.

Evan Brand: Oh, and you tied it all together in the end that’s wonderful.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Thank you! That’s it.

Evan Brand: See. So here’s the thing out there people realized: you can measure this stuff. We measured β-glucuronidase on every single stool test and here’s the really-really fun thing that Justin and I love so much about our jobs – is that within 6 weeks, we could see β-glucuronidase come down by 500, 600, a thousand points, you know. We may see someone at 3000 which is too high and this means, hey look, they’re recirculating not only hormones but could be toxins too that get conjugated as you mentioned. And so that’s not good and this is why someone has like a heavy metal toxicity problem but they have dysbiosis. You have to fix the gut too because to detox effectively, you’ve got to have that open-loop system, not a closed-loop system. So when we come in with probiotics in usually phase 2 or phase 3 just depending on what our protocol looks like, we’re gonna see β-glucuronidase drop. We’ll typically gonna use some enzymes, you mentioned the liver support; liver nutrients can help, sometimes methylation nutrients can help. Uh– one thing we forgot to mention so far about skin is the topical irritant, so why don’t we chat about that, like soaps, shampoos, conditioners, perfumes, artificial fragrances– oh my God! I should have took a picture– I could have put this on my Facebook page man, it would have went viral. These two girls, we were in Target, we were gonna take the baby in the Target to go look for something. I remembered what it was. And these two girls were in the parking lot, and I saw ’em with a huge bottle, and they were spraying each other and I thought, “Oh, what are they spraying?” And so I just say, “Oh, whatever”. But we get into the store, we’re standing right next to these girls, I thought I have to ask them what this is. I said, “Can I ask what you all are spraying on each other?” And they’re both, “Ha-ha-ha” they both giggled, and she goes “Get it, it’s in your purse show ’em”. And they pulled it out and it’s a giant bottle of Glade air freshener, apple cinnamon scent. And I just looked at it–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh my gosh!

Evan Brand: –[laughs] I just looked at it and I was like, “So you’re all using air freshener as perfume?”, and they’re like “Yeah!”, and I was like, “Okay”. I should have said, “Can I take your picture that’s so cool and then post it online or something”. But I jus

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, it’s like a warning right? Hey, do not take this.

Evan Brand: –so I mean, we could go into the reasons I– on my– if you just look up uh–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-huh.

Evan Brand: If you just google “Uber fragrances ban” or something, you can read it. I did a whole like 20 different studies on my– on my petition about the different artificial fragrances and the phthalates and all that endocrine-disrupting things in those so, I mean, please don’t spray yourself with air freshener that’s just insane.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah it’s a whole bunch of junk in there and a lot of these things, you know, if you’re female, a really big concern because you have a hormonal rhythm to your– to your monthly cycle and that can easily be disrupted. Men as well, because men, you know, they’re hormone rhythms more flat line but there’s a lot of Xenoestrogens in the environment from plastics to pesticides to fluorides, uhm— to various components in– in cooking compounds uh– soy, those kind of things, right. You don’t wanna be a soy boy. These type of Xenoestrogens are everywhere they can affect guys but they can really disrupt women’s cycles because when you start dosing up high amounts of estrogen, that can start to decrease follicle-stimulating-hormone FSH, and then when that hormones starts to decrease, then you don’t have the signaling to the follicle, that grow a healthy follicle, and then that can disrupt the whole entire estrogen, progesterone rhythm from the follicular phase to ovulation to the luteal phase, to menstruation, to starting all over again.

Evan Brand: Yup, so not to go too off of that topic ’cause you were– you were going somewhere good–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: –but I just wanna restate. Make sure you clean up all your personal care stuff. It could be your lotion, it could be like I said, shampoo, conditioner, you can go on the environmental working group and you can look on there. Uhm– Justin also likes the skin deep uh– reference, you can just–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s the same thing– it’s a different branding, yeah–

Evan Brand: A different branding, okay.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup. And I– I use a brand called Marie Veronique, she’s a great brand– she’s a great uhm— biochemist out of Berkeley California and she creates a lot of these skin– skin products, you know, homemade in small batches. And she basically puts a lot of high quality nutrients in supplemental form and a lot of her creams, and she’s really good, and she comes typically one of the lowest on the environmental working group. But just take, there’s a handful of good brands. Uhm– there’s another one called Michelle’s, and that’s a decent brand that’s out there. I think uh– Jessica Alba’s brand, I think it’s the Honest Company–

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: –it’s one product I think that comes out really good. They have a patients telling me they have a good ___[14:25] I think it’s a moisturizer. But just take a look at it and see. And uhm— uh that’s very helpful because you can get– they’d a really good uhm— retinol product, they’ve a really good Vitamin-C and uhm— a kind of immuno acid, ___[14:39] acid I think compound. And then they also have some oil-based products that are very high in Vitamin-K2 and a lot of these really good essential fatty acids which are good for your skin. You know, we just wanna be holistic. Do that, but make sure you have the diet dialed in first. If you are on a budget, work on the food stuff, work on the internal nutrients first. And then if you have extra resources and you wanna allocate, go to the external stuff second. I find it’s the opposite. People are going to the external stuff first and the diet’s not dialed in yet. Do the opposite, internal stuff first, collagen, bone broth, anti inflammatory diet, all the nutrients and minerals that I mentioned, get that dialed in, get the gut cleared out, get the bacteria cleared out, make sure you’re digesting your foods, and then– and it also make sure motility’s moving. You’re having a– passing 12 inch of a stool at least a week. I mean– a day, I’m sorry, not a week. 12 inch of the stool a day, obviously at least 7 a week. That’s really important ’cause if you’re not having that good healthy bowel movement, you’ll be reabsorbing toxins–

Evan Brand: You gotta poop folks.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And that’s gonna be then be pushed out the skin, right? The solution to pollution is dilution, and, your skin is a mirror of what’s happening in your gut.

Evan Brand: And then also the solution is pooping, ’cause if you’re not pooping, you’re gonna have skin issues. I’ve– I’ve– I’ve literally seen people improve their skin issues just by pooping from once every 3 days, to pooping every day, their skin got better just by giving them some herbs to help things move along a bit.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and if your skin is excessively dry across the board, I always look at essential fatty acid intake, as well as digestion like–

Evan Brand: Oh yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: –number one, are we getting enough of these good fish oils, uh– these good Vitamin-K2, these good saturated fats from healthy animal products, coconut oil, avocados, mono and saturated palm – are we getting enough of these? Are we able to digest it? How are your stools looking? Are your stools sinking or floating? Right, remember that old expression, you know, oil and water, right? They kind of wanna separate so, you have a really fatty stool because you didn’t break down your fat. You have water, so the stool, will sit on top and float more. It’ll maybe look more clay colored and blond as well so, if you’re seeing that, that’s a big sign that you are not breaking down your essential fatty acids properly. And that we really got to ratchet up the enzymes, the HCL, and or maybe more bile salts and or lipase– lipase, meaning, li– lipid, lipid-based enzymes.

Evan Brand: Yup, well said. Your poop has to sink. It’s very common. I mean, 90% of the time when we run a stool test on people, we’re gonna see elevated steatocrit. Maybe it’s not off the chart but that’s a fecal fat marker we look at. You know, I’ve seen people as high as 35%. Meaning, 35% of their poop is fat. That’s crazy. You do not want that. Ideally, it’s like below detectable limit.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: A hundred percent.

Evan Brand: What’s the high stew scene on steatocrit? Do– do you know?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’ve seen it uh— in the– and they operate in the mid to upper 20s before.

Evan Brand: Okay, okay.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And these people are you know– you know, they’re having– they’re reporting back, “Hey how are your stools looking?”. “Oh they’re floating.” All right, you know there’s an issue. I don’t need a lab at that point to tell me but most of the time we’re gonna see, you know, increase in steatocrit, when we see those clinical symptoms.

Evan Brand: Yup. The only of the thing I wanted to mention was the histamine issue, and, makes that– we’ve hit on this another podcast but that with uh– gut bacterial, like bacterial overgrowth that does mess up your ability to break down histamine from the diet. So that’s why some people say, low histamine diets help. But that’s still not the root cause. It’s just that those malabsorption and dysbiosis issue causing you not to digest your histamines or break ’em down rather.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Correct. So, when you wanna– when we get deeper into like the diagnoses, just remember, the diagnoses is a manifestation of inflammation and how that inflammation is presenting itself. Inflammation that presents in certain ways gets classifieds as one condition, versus another. A lot of times the underlying way to go about it is very-very similar. And a lot of times the nutrients are very similar. So don’t think like, “Oh, I have vitiligo, and this person has psoriasis”. It’s like a totally different thing. Now in the eyes of the dermatologist it may be, right? ‘Cause they may say, “Oh we’re gonna give you some kind of bleaching compound”, or some kind of immunosuppressant where, over here, it’s like “Oh, we’re gonna give you more Corticosteroids or something to help keep the itching down, right? ‘Cause they’re different types of diseases where the similar autoimmunity, inflammatory mechanism happening on the inside, and of course genetic predisposition, kind of, you know, allows one disease to express itself over another.

Evan Brand: Yeah, well said. And then the ge

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: The genetics.

Evan Brand: –and then the genetics are always, you know, they’re– they’re malleables. So, don’t just say because my mom got “XYZ”, I’m destined to get that. That’s not true. It’s– it’s– it’s more likely, but it’s not guaranteed.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup, a hundred percent. And then a couple things you can see too is– uhm— Akantosis Nigrikans is another one. And you can just google it, but you have a hyperpigmentation that’s commonly caused by excessive insulin–

Evan Brand: Ahh.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: –so if you’re doing a lot of insulin lot of modifying carbohydrates you can see the Akantosis Nigrikans. Uh– on the back of the forearms you can see the Keratosis pilaris–

Evan Brand: Yes.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: –it’s like there’s little bumps that pop up, and that can happen because of essential fatty acid deficiency. So if you have poor digestion or gut infections, that can be a big issue. Of course we have a Rheumatoid arthritis which you may, you know, you may be able to see the– the joints, hypertrophy in the fingers and the IP-joints, in the– the metacarpophalangeal joint, you may see a hypertrophy because there’s autoimmune attack, and there’s a lot of inflammation. We may see that as well. And then of course like autoimmune thyroid issues, we can see a lot of dry skin with autoimmune thyroids especially in the neck too. And that can easily be from, you know, the same underlying mechanism. So, if you have an autoimmune thyroid, you could easily have some dry skin because that’s gonna be a big connection in Vitamin-A and, these essential fatty acids are important for thyroid function as well.

Evan Brand: Yeah my uh– my brother-in-law, it’s my wife’s sister’s husband, he’s got a triple AMI. He’s got type-1 diabetes, he was diagnosed as a teenager, then he went on to develop Hashimoto’s, then he went on to develop Alopecia. So once the autoimmune domino effect starts to happen, you can start to rack up the autoimmune diseases and that’s why some clients come to us and like, “Look, I’ve got six different autoimmune diseases at the same time.” It’s the same thing. Once that leaky gut takes place then you get the leaky skin, the leaky heart, the leaky brain, the leaky everything. So, it’s very, very-very common to hear multiple autoimmune issues but the good news is, you can take a lot of this stuff and turn it around. So, just get your testing done, I mean, that’s the first step, dial in the diet, all of– all of the stuff, you know, pick a step; just don’t be paralyzed, just pick a step.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and also excessively pale skin. We– that could be an anemic, lo– low B-12 and or Iron. And there could be a Pernicious anemia where it’s affecting the intrinsic factor in your stomach, so you’re having a harder time absorbing B-12. And or just low stomach acid, when you’re being vegetarian, you may not get enough B-12 or Iron and then that could leave your skin more pale because red blood cell counts low, your hemoglobin’s low. Hemoglobin, the heme, and the myoglobin help bring a little bit of uhm— color to your skin as well. So you could look excessively pale if you don’t have enough iron and or B-12. And of course, the iron and B-12 issues can be caused by low stomach acid, not enough animal protein or animal compounds. And or the autoimmunity that affects the intrinsic factor or the parietal cells in your stomach.

Evan Brand: Yup, well said.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, any other issues you wanna address here. Of course we talked about histamine briefly, and then again that all connects down inflammation. The more inflamed you are, the more histamine-sensitive you are. Did a podcast with uhm— Yasmina Ykelenstam, the low-histamine chef. We talked about this. She harkens the fact that– yeah, cutting histamine out may help. Doing kind of natural histamine to granulate also may help, uhm— doing histamine enzymes like D– Di– Diamine oxidase may help as well but we have to cut down the inflammation. So it still comes down to getting rid of your unique inflammation wherever it’s lingering.

Evan Brand: So here’s the thing that I just found out. Uh– a couple of weeks ago is that Yasmina– is– she’s no longer alive.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: What happened?

Evan Brand: She passed away a few weeks ago.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I didn’t know that.

Evan Brand: Yeah. If you go on–  I think it was on her Facebook page. Uhm– and then I saw her uh– whole– her obituary is to– she’s the healing histamine check, right? Yasmina Ykelenstam, sounds like that?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s really sad.

Evan Brand: Uh– it was breast–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: [crosstalk]…last year she was really ___[23:14] and healthy.

Evan Brand: It was breast cancer; it says her on the– on the uh– obituary. She was 43.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh that’s really sad.

Evan Brand: That’s amazing that you got to chat with her.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah well, I– I send my condolences to her family. That’s– that’s really sad, but she had a lot of great information that she provided and I’m hoping that, you know, she was able to help thousands of people during her–

Evan Brand: Right now hopefully her legacy will continue on.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Absolutely.

Evan Brand: Well, good. We gotta wrap this thing up but check out If you wanna reach out to Justin, you can get help around the world. Doesn’t matter where you are. So, we can help you figure this stuff out. If you wanna reach out to me, you can check out my site, We always love your comments, your feedback. And we look forward to helping you soon.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: There any questions you wanna answer here Evan, I know, we kind of really, you know, on time constraints. Other than that, you saw that you wanted to highlight?

Evan Brand: I didn’t see any.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay. I think we’re on the right track here. Uhm– anything else you wanna say?

Evan Brand: Not today, just– get– get help. Don’t give up.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And I’ll be back here later on this week guys for a live Q and A, so we can get some more questions and answers. I may even jump on today if I can if I have time. But you all here make sure you subscribe, give us a thumbs up, give us the share, give us the bell. And we will all chat real soon. Have a phenomenal day.

Evan Brand: Take care.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Take care


Trends in allergy prevalence among children aged 0–17 years by asthma status, United States, 2001–2013 Study

How to Use Collagen to Improve Your Health | Podcast #190

Welcome to today’s live podcast with Evan Brand! In this podcast, the functional duo educates people about what Collagen is, why is it important and where it originates. Watch as they also explain how one loses Collagen and what affects it. Also, listen as they enumerate the different types of Collagen and other related things like gut health, deficiencies, etc.  

Stay tuned for more, and don’t forget to share!

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

In this episode, we cover:

01:28   Decreasing Collagen Exposure

04:36  Tryptophan Absence, Skin Health, and Collagen Matrix

15:50  Gut Health Affecting Joint Health

16:30  Cortisol: The “Anti-Bone Broth”

19:00  The Evolution of the Human Brain


Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Evan, it’s Dr. J here in the house. How are we doing, man? How’s your Monday?

Evan Brand: happy Monday to you, man. I’m back on the grind. I took last week off. I told you it was crazy like working so hard and then just coming to a— uh— a standstill. It was difficult for me. Now, once I got to the end of the week, I started to relax. But, man, I tell you, vacation’s are not my favorite thing. Maybe I just have a wrong uh— mentality towards them.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I mean, when you have jobs like we do, where you really, really enjoy. It’s uh— It’s fun to be living on purpose and helping people.

Evan Brand: Yup. Agreed.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.

Evan Brand: Well, you came up with a great topic idea, which is all about Collagen. And— I mean, I can’t tell you how many women, when I’m asking them about their supplements— Like, random women, that may or may not know anything about health or functional medicine—  somehow they discovered Collagen, and they’re taking it as a supplement. But, before we get in to supplemental uses of it. You and I were doing a bit of research and wanted to fill in kind of some back story on Collagen, educate people about what it is, and where it comes from, and how do you lose Collagen, what affects Collagen, things even in your gut, vitamin deficiencies— I mean, this has some cool stuff so let’s dig in.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, absolutely. So, Collagen’s important. One of my favorite a— amino acid that I love to supplement at least once, even twice a day. I typically do it, in the morning, in my coffee and I do it at night in— with some Magnesium citrate powder. I love it. We typically get exposure to Collagen, Collagen amino acids, in the environment through connective tissue support, so like bone broths, where we can get the full bone and the Collagen and— and the ligament, its tendon, and the high to the skin of the animal. So, most of the time, we’re just not getting that exposure these days ‘cause we’re just eating muscle meat, and most of the time, it’s even skinless. And we’re not doing it any broth form. We’re not doing any soup. So, we’re not getting a lot of the marrow, the ligaments, the tendon, the cartilage, amino acids. So, we’re getting those amino acid exposure that we typically would get the— in— from muscle meat. So, it’s really important that we get these amino acids. And if we’re not doing the soups and broths, then we have to make sure we get some type of Collagen supplement. That’s why I formulated a product called TruCollagen, where I source it from Argentinian kind of grass-fed cows. And we use Proteolytic enzymes— We dump the Proteolytic enzymes on the tissue on the hide, on the ligament, tendon, to break it down into a powder form. That way, it breaks down in water or coffee or tea or soup. So, huge fan of that because we’re just not getting enough of those type of proteins in our diet.

Evan Brand: That’s amazing! So, I’m just reading a little bit about hydrolyzed Collagen, which is what you have in your product. And— uh— Hydrolyzed Collagen contains 19 amino acids. And so, these are things like Glycine, Proline, Glutamic acid, Arginine, Alanine, and other essential amino acids and some non-essential amino acids. Maybe, before we get in to like deficiencies and Cortisol and stuff like that, maybe let’s just chat about amino acids and how important they for manufacturing neurotransmitters. I mean, you’ve got so many people with uh— mood issues, depression being number one leading cause of disability, I believe Anxiety. Actually, I just saw a report about that. I don’t know if you saw it. Anxiety is actually topping depression now as the leading cause of disability in the world by the Center of Disease Control. So, Anxiety, Depression— Those are highly linked to amino acid deficiencies, which not gonna say Collagen’s gonna cure you, but it can replenish these amino acids that you need to manufacture brain chemicals.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and if you looked at the top ten essential amino acids, these are amino acids that your body cannot make. Arginine, Histidine, Isoleucine, Leucine, Lysine, Methionine, Phenylalanine, which is a precursor to Tyrosine. Uh— Threonine, Tryptophan, which is a precursor to 5-HTP, which is Serotonin, and then, Valanine or Valine. So, these are all important amino acids. We cannot get them from our food like— I’m sorry. We cannot get them from our body. Our body cannot make them. We have to get them from our food. Now, when we go cross-reference that with some of the Collagen from uh— or some of the amino acids that are actually in Collagen. It’s a little bit different. Glycine, Proline, Alanine, and Hydroxyproline are the big ones. Glycine’s really important because that’s actually an amino acid that we use to make Glutathione. So, the more toxic load we’re gonna have, the more our bodies can actually take Glycine and burn it up, and to make Glutathione. So, that’s really important. Uh— Proline and Alanine and Hydroxyproline, really, really important for that dermal layer, right— the dermal layer. So, we have the epidermis. That’s the outer part of the skin that you see. The second layer is the dermis. And, we have all this Collagen fibers that kind of— you’d make uh— a network throughout that dermis layer. And think about the tighter. Though, that Collagen matrix is the better in the— the better skin integrity you’re gonna have. It’s gonna be smoother. It’s gonna be clearer. And then, the more you start to have sags in that Collagen matrix. That’s kind of wrinkles and just skin that’s not gonna be in that— that youthful integrity. So, we want to make sure we have that nice strong Collagen matrix. Now, we can whip that Collagen into shape using laser or microneedling therapies, right? Of course, things that like— things like Oxidative stressors like smoking, and toxicity, and excess sun, right— can also break it down. But we also can provide building blocks. Vitamin C is really important cause that’s the really important building block to making that Collagen. But also the amino acids that I mention, which you found in the connective tissue. And, we like to use a lot of Type I and Type III Collagen sources and I’ll go into that in a bit.

Evan Brand: Yeah. The interesting about Collagen, the only amino acid that’s essential that it does not contain is Tryptophan. And we use Tryptophan a lot supplementally and specially 5-Hydroxytryptophan, 5-HTP. Really, really helpful for people with mood issues, so anxiety and depression and all that, it makes sense. Why? I’ve had clients that say, “ Oh! I’ve been supplementing Collagen but I still have these mood issues.” So, you can still replenish other neurotransmitters but you’re not getting Tryptophan from Collagen, and— and interestingly a lot. So, if you do have mood issues, you may need Collagen plus 5-HTP. And you brought up the Vitamin C so I’ll take that a little bit further. In terms of testing, between Justin and I, both, we’ve probably looked at— I don’t know, maybe 3,000 or 4,000, who knows how many Organic acids test. This is a urine sample that we run on every new client. And you can actually measure Vitamin C on this urine sample. And I would say— and Justin tell me if your statistics are different— but I would say 80%, if not more, people have a deficiency or even no Vitamin C, works completely bottomed out. And as you just mentioned, you have to have Vitamin C as a cofactor to build Collagen. So if your skin looks like crap and your Vitamin C’s burned out, you’ve got some explanation on the— on the data.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. Now, Oxidation is important. Oxidation is when you lose electrons. So, if you put a rusty nail outside and it gets rusty, that’s Oxidation. The— The steel or the metal that makes up that nail losses electrons hence the rusting, or if you cut an apple in your house and you let the apple brown, that is Oxidation. Now, you can get some lemon juice, put it on it. The lemon juice is very high in Vitamin C, which then prevents the apple from browning. Why? Because it’s an antioxidant. It’s giving up electrons to stabilize the loss of electrons from the oxidation process. So that’s what we like. Vitamin C’s are really good adrenal support because a lot of adrenal stress creates Oxidation. Obviously, your adrenals use Vitamin C as a— is a kind of a cofactor for adrenal support to make some of the adrenal hormones from a nutritional perspective, kind of like the thyroid uses uhm— Selenium so to speak, the adrenals like Vitamin C and then Oxidation. We can have Oxidation stress just from emotional stress. We can have it poor sleep. We can have it from nutrient deficiencies. We can have it from pesticides in the environment. Of course, smoking is one of the most notorious ones, right? Smoking creates Oxidation. The Oxidation decreases Vitamin C stores. Lack of Vitamin C is gonna be an ability to make and uh— and to create your own Collagen matrix in your bodies, and then you have— started to have these weakened nets underneath your skin, which then allows certain parts to sag and just wrinkle, and just that— that accelerated aging, looks starts to occur. So of course, we want uh— number one, decrease the Oxidative stressors that are affecting our skin— sticides, smoking, excess of Sun, uhm— sleep, nutritional issues. We want a supplement, the good nutrition on the Vitamin C side, and then also the building blocks, because the more stressed we are, the more we’re gonna break down amino acids. So get the really good extra Collagen amino acids. And this is more important specially if you’re not eating the skin on the animals that you’re eating, and you’re not making soups or doing broth, then it’s even more important ‘cause you just not gonna expose those amino acids.

Evan Brand: Yep. Well said. So there’s the answer. If you’ve been wondering all these years why when you look at a smoker, their skin looks so terrible and they look 20 years older than everybody around them who’s not smoking, there is your answer. And let’s talk about the gut a bit ‘cause we were doing some research and there’s an enzyme called Collagenase, and Collagenase is an enzyme that inhibits Collagen synthesis. And guess what? Turns out, there are gut bacteria, including H. pylori. I just found a literature piece here. I’ll put it in the— in the chat for you, Justin. It’s about H. pylori being in type of infection that can cause the secretion of this Collagenase and when this enzyme gets produced all the sudden, now you want it making Collagen. So, we’re gonna say, “Hey! That your wrinkles are caused directly from H. pylori?” No. There’s probably multiple factors but the truth is, gut bugs— so, bacteria, viruses, H. pylori being a big one. I didn’t see anything about parasites but I’m just gonna assume  Even if it wasn’t affecting that Collagenase, we already know based on what happen to me with my weight loss and based on what we’ve seen with 1000+ clients is that parasites can steal your nutrients and cause your amino acids to go low. And you can also measure amino acids on Organic acids testing too, which is why we love it because if we see that someone has digestive problems like gut bugs, a lot of the time, those amino acids will show low. And then we know something’s off with their brain, their skin, their mood, their sleep, sex drive— it can all be affected.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hundred percent. One hundred percent. Now, regarding, you know, what the next steps are, right? You also talked about the gut. Now, I mentioned Glycine, which is one of the main amino acids in Collagen. It’s gonna be used for Glutathione, which is a powerful detoxifying antioxidant because, any toxin puts oxidative stress on your body. Number two, Glycine’s really for the— for the Enterocytes to be nice and strong within the gut lining. So, Glycine is really, really important. That’s partly why the GAPS Diet has a strong emphasis on bone broth and soups because you can get a lot of the nutrients pull from the skin, tendon, ligament, bone into the soup, into the broth, and then you can drink that. That has a really good healing anti-inflammatory effect on the gut lining. So, Glycine’s also important just because like you have this Collagen matrix that builds up the— the dermis, which is the layer just beneath your skin. We also have these Collagen peptides that are really important for building the Enterocytes within the gut lining as well. So, it’s not just your skin, not just your tendons and bones for joint health, it’s also your healthy gut.

Evan Brand: That’s amazing. So, you’re literally healing from the inside-out?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Correct.

Evan Brand: It doesn’t get [inaudible]

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: A hundred percent.

Evan Brand: Of course, we’re not doing just that. Like a leaky gut protocol, we’ve got several different custom formulations that we’re using, but it sounds like, based on what you’re saying here, we would definitely want to have Collagen in as a post-infection protocol for best results.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Correct. And there’s about— I mean, if you go look, there’s a lot of different like Collagen types. The most common ones are the I and III. Those are the ones that I use in my TruCollagen. The difference with my TruCollagen compared to most molt— most used Sulfuric acid is a uhm— is a— an emulsifier to break down the amino acids in the peptide form. I use Proteolytic enzymes. So, that process cost a little bit more for the Proteolytic enzymes. And then we sourced it from Argentinian grass-fed cows, which do not get a certified organic label on it— that just caused too much— but we just used farmers that basically are— are— uh— basically adhering to those standards but aren’t paying the extra money for the certification.

Evan Brand: That’s right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And then again, we’re using the Type I and Type III. type I is skin, tendon, vasculature, organ, bone, and it makes up the major organic part of the bone. And then we have Type III, which is basically uhm— It’s found alongside Type I. These are the reticular fibers, okay. Reticular fibers that the— the big network that interweave— interweaves between everything to strengthen it up. It gives a good scaffolding. So, Type I and Type III— You’ll see some of the— the Neocell Collagen will have ome of the Type II, right?

Evan Brand: Yeah. [crosstalk] I’ve had an impulse in that one.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: It tastes pretty good.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: yeah. I mean, the thing with Neocell, uh— a lot of it becomes from Tyson Poultry Farm chickens.

Evan Brand: [crosstalk] That sucks. So, I figured it wasn’t quality because— Put it this way, if it were quality like pastured animals, they would advertise it. “Hey it’s from pastured animals.” Right?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Correct. So, it— it comes from the— the Neocell tends to come more from the Tyson Farm chickens, and number two, doesn’t blend as well. I mean, if you put it in your coffee or tea, is a noticeable flavor f— for me that disrupts the enjoyment of my coffee or tea. Uh— Where, if you use a really good proteolytic Collagen, it almost— it has no flavor at all and almost acts like a creamer. So, I love it ‘cause, one, that’s my creamer. And then, number two, it provides the extra amino acids. So, if I have someone who’s just not hungry at all, that doesn’t want to really eat much in the morning but they love their coffee or tea, well, we can at least put a scoop of Collagen in there. Get 12 to 15 grams of Collagen, and they at least get some good amino acids nutrients in their— in their gut. And also, it prov— provides support for the gut lining too, which is great.

Evan Brand: Yeah, well said.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And most people aren’t— they aren’t getting exposed. Even people that are Paleo, unless they’re doing bone broth, right— or doing bone marrow…

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …they’re just not getting exposed to it.

Evan Brand: Yeah. Well, when you were talking about that, I thought, “Man, this would be a perfect intervention if we were trying to get someone from a Vegan or a vegetarian template and try to get them over to a whole foods— you know, animal-based products uh— diet. I think Collagen would be a good first step. Like, “Hey, look. I understand you don’t want to eat eggs. I understand you don’t want to eat meat. Okay. Let’s start you out with a simple white powder. You’re never gonna know what it was. It’s Collagen— tons of amino acids. By the time they feel better from it, then maybe they’d be convinced to stop being a Vegan or a Vegetarian. Mood, skin, things like that, are better ‘cause we’ve had a lot of vegetarian Vegans with skin issues uh— probably due to the malabsorption ‘cause they’re doing so many beans and grains and stuff that their gut’s messed up. Uh— But yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I have a lot of Vegans and vegetarians that— that I at least coerced them to being able to do some of the Collagen peptides.

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Actually, I coerced them at doing at least a little bit of egg yolk if tolerated, and potentially, even a little bit of fish. So I may be able to kind of push them in that direction. But yeah, I mean, a lot of the Vegetarian protein sources, they aren’t rich in Sulfur amino acids and they tend to have a whole bunch of anti-nutrients bound up to them. So if there’s any digestion issues, that can be, you know, make it really hard to extract a lot of those nutrients. Not to mention, I think this is really, really important that lots and lots of people, they don’t have— Let’s just say it like this. Uhm— They don’t have the ability to break them down as much but they also tend to have a lot more carbohydrate in their food. So, the more Carbohydrate you have in your food, the greater chance of Insulin resistance. The increased Insulin resistance, the higher your blood sugar gets. That creates advanced glycation end-products because the sugar is coating all those proteins up ‘cause your body can’t pull it into the bloodstream as well, so it increases blood levels of glucose, which the creates more oxidative stress. Advanced Glycation end-products ages— ages you partly because of that oxidative stress mechanism.

Evan Brand: Yup. I’m trying to think of those anything else i wanted to mention. Oh, yes! Cortisol. Let’s talk about Cortisol. You mentioned adrenal stress and how that can deplete Vitamin C…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm—

Evan Brand: …which is…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: …a cofactor for Collagen synthesis, but Cortisol in itself is gonna be catabolic. So, Cortisol can cause leaky gut issues…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Evan Brand: …because it can break down that gut barrier. But then let’s talk about that a bit more. You know, Cortisol can be affecting your skin, your gut lining. I mean, it’s pretty much the anti bone broth if I could call it that.  

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: One hundred percent. I think we made some valid points. And again, if you’re seeing hair loss, part of, I think, the mechanism for hair loss with a lot of these infections is number one you’re uh— you’re malabsorbing a lot of these nutrients. Number two, I would also say, there could be potential thyroid issues, right? Because if you have infections, there could be thyroid issues. And you need thyroid hormone to help follicle growth as well. So, low thyroid hormone could easily be part of what that follicle is— is atrophying and the hair’s falling off.

Evan Brand: Well, what if Anemia is too? I mean that would be a whole nother podcast but Ferritin is a common thing we’ll see that’s low.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: B vitamins, B12 for sure.

Evan Brand: Yeah. So there are Anemias and there are gut infections too. I mean, you know, with the— you mentioned, the thyroid Hashimoto’s— I mean, that could be a gut— a gut issue. That’s like H. pylori that’s triggering autoimmunity of some sort, and then, the Collagen gets affected, then the skin’s affected. I mean, everything— everything’s connected that’s why it’s funny because we start out on one topic, and then we always go back to the other topics we discussed because you cannot separate these things.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And I love Collagen because it provides the— the mechanism for skin, the cosmetic aesthetic asset. It also provides support on the gut aspect, and then it also provides support on the detox aspects. So, many, many sides of it. Think of Collagen as the scaffolding and all of the various osteobl— osteoblasts and fibroblasts that are growing around it. That’s the scaffolding that keeps it in place, right? Just like, you need scaffolding around the building so the builders can maneuver their way up the building to put all the rods and steel and glass and cement in place. Think of the Collagen as that scaffolding that provides that strong foundation for your— for the— for your other building block cells to do what they need to do.

Evan Brand: Makes you wonder, I mean, how often and how much Collagen our ancestors were getting. I mean, many people joke at us as humans eating muscle meat, and say that our ancestors— that was like the last thing that they went for. Have you heard talks about that? Like, the muscle meat was basically the— the least important part of the animal when they killed it?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: There’s a Nova Documentary out there, and they talked about kind of the evolution of the human brain. And, basically, they have this kind of divergence of Homo ergaster and Cro-Magnon kind of went extinct. Did— Didn’t quite get that higher brain, but Homo ergaster developed to have stronger brain. Now, how it first developed that stronger brain? first, it  was able to create the what’s called the hand axe. Basically a hand— it— it’s something that you can just grab with your hand. It’s just a rock with uh— that came to a wedge. So, what they were able to do with the hand axe. They were able to take the long bones and break the long bones open, and start scraping out the marrow within the bone. More than likely, within that marrow, there’s gonna be a lot of Collagen aminos ‘cause they’re scraping that inside of the bone out. Those amino acids ‘cause the brain to grow at a faster rate than these other humans that were around. And that higher brain power allowed them to then create weapons, where they could then kill animals from further away up in a tree with a spear or a bone arrow. Therefore, they were less likely to be injured or hurt or killed. So it was the higher brain function from certain nutrients, better weaponry, also being able to access the Omega-3 fatty acids from the fish. These nutrients skyrocketed the human brain, where in a— in a— you know, a relatively short period of a couple hundred thousand years, the brain grew very fast.

Evan Brand: I think they said it doubled in that timeframe.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep. And that’s kind of, you know, why we are where we’re at today. And that’s part of the reason why human species— like a lot of humans or not— a lot of other species, right— animal species. They developed super fast, right? They’re walking. They’re moving right away, right out of the gates. Humans don’t because all that energy is actually going in to growing the brain. So, if you look at why babies, human babies, developed so slow in— in— in correlation with the horse, that comes out of huh— the uterus, are walking.

Evan Brand: [laughs] Exactly.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Because all the energy is going to brain growth, and that’s kind of where we’re at…

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …for the last couple of hundred thousand years.

Evan Brand: Yeah. Bison too. I think Bison literally like run with their moms on the first day of being born.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup. It’s because they don’t have uh— a frontal cortex that has taken hundreds of thousands, if not millions of years, in nutrients to get to where they’re at.

Evan Brand: Yeah, and people like, “Okay. what do I do now? Start eating bone marrow?” You could, but you could also just start doing these high quality Collagens and bone broths. And—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Cool.

Evan Brand: And you’re gonna get the marrow from the— from the bones. I know Kettle & Fire, which is the company that— they sponsored my podcast for a while. I know they used all the bones and the marrow. People can actually get 20% off. I believe my link…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Evan Brand: I’ll do— I’ll double check it. I’ll just do a little plug here. I’ll make like two (2) dollars if you buy this broth using my discount, but you’ll save more than two dollars. Yeah. So, it’s, and if you use that link, you will get 20% off of bone broth. So, that’s pretty good. I drink it almost weekly. I don’t actually drink it by itself though, to be honest. I just mix it in with soups and recipes and stuff. If I’m doing like a stew…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand:crock pot, I’ll just add a half a carton of it to it. And I’ve used the other brands like Pacific that’s store-bought, big major corporation bone broth, it does not get like jello. When you put the Kettle & Fire in the fridge, it’s like, you have to scoop it out with the spoon. Like—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: I know that it’s much higher quality.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You get a lot more lunging Collagen peptides. Totally. That makes a lot of sense. [crosstalk] It’s great.

Evan Brand: Ann Louise Gittleman when I interviewed her for the Candida summit, she said that she had her team. I guess she has a team, kind of like Mercola, that goes and investigate stuff for her.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm—

Evan Brand: And they tested a bunch of different uh— commercial, like organic bone broth companies. And she said also that Kettle & Fire was the only one that passed in terms of not being contaminated with heavy metals because, apparently, depending on where these animals are grazing, if the soil has heavy metals, and then obviously that’s uptake into the bone, like Lead. And then you make broth out of it, then you drink the broth, you could be giving yourself Lead. But she said that’s the only one that actually drinks. So, that was cool to hear.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool. Excellent. Anything else you wanted to answer or address here before wwe wrap up?

Evan Brand: I think we covered it all. I don’t have the questions pulled up so I didn’t know if there were any there that you want to hit or not.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think we’re good. I’ll just one li— little shout out for your summit coming up. Head over to, C-A-N-D-I-D-A, for Evan’s awesome Candida Summit coming up in the next month. Make sure you subscribe. I’m really excited to be a guest on that. I’m really excited for the awesome information that’s coming everyone’s way.  

Evan Brand: [crosstalk] Make sure you put the link too. Make sure you put that link in this video for people. They’ll look it out. So, Go register there for the event. I mean, we’ve literally already got 30,000 people registered and it’s not even until next month. So…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it.

Evan Brand: …if you— Imagine missing out on 30 of our podcasts together, that’s what it’s like if you miss out on this event.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Awesome, man. Anything else you want to add today?

Evan Brand: Not today. Take care. Reach out for Justin if you want to consult. for me. We love to help you out. Take care.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Awesome, Evan. Have a go, man.

Evan Brand: Sure.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You take care.

Evan Brand: Bye.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Bye.



Ann Louise Gittleman in a Candida Summit interview

Skin Care with Kevin Gianni – Podcast #23    

In this episode Dr. Baris interviewed the founder of Renegade Health, Kevin Gianni author and blogger on diet, fitness and natural health.  He has done extensive research and interviews with health experts and has studied different diets and protocols like vegan, raw food, fasting and more. 

In this podcast learn more about what type of diet is good for you and why we need to run blood tests to see if our diet is working for us.  Know the different sources of fermented foods and how it provides natural healthy bacteria for good health.   This episode also talked about a good skin care line that is all-natural, all-organic that really works best for our skin without the toxic chemicals.

In this episode we cover:

09:39   Blood Testings

14:02   Supplements for vegans

28:21   Fermented Foods and Probiotics

32:22   Detoxification and Skin Care

36:25   “Kale and Coffee”







Podcast: Play in New Window|Download


Baris Harvey:  Thank you guys for tuning in to another episode of Beyond Wellness Radio.  And today’s podcast I have an awesome interview with Kevin Gianni.  For today’s episode we do not have Dr. Justin.  He is actually at the Bulletproof Conference giving a presentation down in L.A.  So he will be a little mixed up by the time he got to his hotel or over his Skype connection.  But we are surely going to have an awesome interview for you.  Make sure that you guys go to and make sure that you subscribe and get the latest because we do offer up a lot of bonuses and specials and you get the access to all of the interviews a lot earlier than just being tuned in to ITunes.  So make sure that you go ahead and do that.  Also go to  You can also find that clickable at and that is where you can find all of Dr. Justin’s links.  He does functional medicine and it will be awesome if you guys have any questions for him as well.  You guys can go ahead and leave him questions and also get a free 15-minute consultation.  Again you guys can also work with me.  You guys can go to and leave me a contact if you have any nutritional concerns and wanted to discuss that.  So on with today’s radio show, Kevin Gianni how is it going today?

Kevin Gianni:  Great, Baris.  How are you doing?

Baris Harvey:  I am doing very well.  The first thing that I always want to ask our guest is, “What is your story?”  Kind of give the background of what got you into wanting to become healthier and then kind of try to change the world, right?  And send a healthy message.  What brought you into the health space?

Kevin Gianni:  Well for me, when I was younger I played sports in high school and then I played football, basketball and tennis.  And I was always really into fitness.  So I was always working out.  I was running.  You know just really focusing on that side of it.  But my idea of a healthy energy-boosting snack before a tennis match was a pack of Twinkies and a Mountain Dew.

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hum.

Kevin Gianni:  So you know the nutrition side, you can probably say was a little bit lacking.  And add to that, I used to drive my mom’s Caravan with my tennis partner, my doubles partner right after school.  After our snack and we would smoke a cigarette and then we play tennis.  (Laughs)

Baris Harvey:  (Laughs) Yes.

Kevin Gianni:  Somehow we made it to the stage but you know I do not know. I am sure I could have been a lot better if I actually did focus on both parts of fitness and in nutrition.  And so that kind of spurred my interest.  I met my wife after I had run a marathon and I have hurt my leg.  And I was working a job but I did not really like it.  And I said, “You know, we can be personal trainers.”  Because I am the one in the gym that everyone’s always asking questions about.  She is an athletic trainer.  The two of us together we thought could make a pretty good team and we did.  We were in Southern Connecticut and we were personal trainers for a bunch of years and then we just got a little bit tired working one to one with people about health.  So we started to go online and started blogging about all our experiences.  Whatever we were doing.  Whatever diets we were into, whether it is raw foods or vegan or exercise, body weight exercises.  Everything that we are learning about we are blogging about.   That is kind of how all this came into be.

Baris Harvey:  Yes.  Awesome.  It is funny how you have a similar story with me.  I was all about athletics when I was younger.  I still kind of am but that is what kind of drove me to be like, “Hmmm maybe the big box of pizza is not the best workout food.”  So you guys were trying to get your message out to the masses versus just doing a one-on-one thing.  When did you start to notice that the nutrition side was needed to be changed for you?  Because for me, I know I did not really changed my nutrition until I started gaining a lot of weight.  When I was younger I was like super lean and was able to do whatever I want because of my sports.  But after a while, my metabolism unfortunately did not hold up.  When did you notice that, “Hmm, maybe I should change my nutrition as well?”

Kevin Gianni:  Well, it happened twice.  First it happened when a friend of mine gave me a collection of MP3s and I popped them on to my IPod.  I was running still after college.  I was a personal trainer and I started running.  And I just went running again and he gave me these MP3s.  And every once in a while I will bring the IPod with me to run and so one day instead of listening to some music that I have I said, “Oh, maybe I should listen to some of these MP3s”.  And the information that was on some of these audio were just so mind blowing to me.  It was so simple but so mind blowing in the same kind of space that I just totally, my mind just totally switched about nutrition.  I just was not thinking about nutrition in that way.  And the audios were by David Wolfe.  They may be part of David Wolfe’s, known some of his work.  And so that kind of put me into a really interesting space because I was already healthy.  I mean had very little body fat.  I have a friend, you know, like doing the calipers on me.  And he was just like, “Wait a minute.”  He was a personal trainer, too.  “Wait a minute.”  I have never seen anyone at this reading.  I think it was like one percent or some five percent.  Almost maybe too low depending on what your opinion is.  And so I just said, “Well, maybe I will just try this broccoli thing that he is talking about.”  Because if I am healthy now and it feels good I want to be even more healthy.

Baris Harvey:  Yes.

Kevin Gianni:  And so I went on this long experiment of vegan and raw food and that was not fully raw for 6 years but I was definitely vegan for that long.  And it was an interesting experience.  My wife and I, we traveled around the country interviewing different health experts trying to kind of get to the heart of what the best diet for any human being is.  And along the way my health actually started to decline.  So I started to get some adrenal fatigue which I did not recognize what it was at that time.  I just knew that I was tired.  I was not able to get out of bed.  I was grumpy.  I was just feeling strange.  Just you know, kind of, I would fly off the handle quickly and I get angry at things very fast.  I just did not know what was happening.  And eventually it got so bad that I needed to go to a doctor.  And luckily, we have traveled around and we have seen so many fantastic health practitioners.  I had a Rolodex.  Well, not a Rolodex, that is an old term.  (Laughs)

Baris Harvey:  (Laughs)

Kevin Gianni:  I did not really have a Rolodex.  I had a hypothetical or imaginary Rolodex of all these people that I could call.

Baris Harvey:  Yes.

Kevin Gianni:  And so I called Dr. James Williams, J. E. Williams who is a not only a colleague but a friend.  And he ran some of my blood.  He did some blood testings for me.  And this was kind of my first foray into functional medicine.  I have known about Dr. Mark Hyman for a long time and Ultra Wellness was the book.  But what really influenced me as well was the one before that with Dr. Mark Liponis.  I knew about it but I have never really fully bought into it.  And so Dr. Williams did ran a whole bunch of blood test on me.  When I got them back, you know, the proof was kind of right there on the paper.   All the blood markers he pulled maybe, I do not know, 30 or 40.  The evidence was right there that what my diet was not healthy for me.  And my Pregnenolone was in a 6 which is like the equivalent of an 85 year old man.  And I am at that time was 31.  (Laughs)  Like even serious things happening and I do not really know what would happen if I continued any longer.  So, that kind of spurred me on what do I do next.  It is really tough to be in a situation where you were eating a diet for so long and just get indoctrinated by the philosophy behind it and then you look at the numbers on the paper and just say, “Wow! I do not know I am doing it wrong?  Or it is just not working for me.”

Baris Harvey:  Yes, definitely.  Yes, so I kind of have two questions on that but one I kind of go into a question that I wanted to prepare for and I noticed that even on your side at the that you supply testing as well.  And this is probably one of those reasons why you found it important because it is important to you for your transformation in your journey going along.  But just to explain to the listeners, why is testing so important?

Kevin Gianni:  It is important for two reasons.  One is more like a scientific kind of reason.  The other is just almost like a mind, just a chilling out kind of like mind relaxing reason.  I tell you it is a mind relaxing reason to begin with.  So anyone who is listening to this or anyone who listens to health podcasts or watches videos or reads blogs, health blogs online, health books or whatever, there is always this argument about diet.  You know, what diet is right?  And there are so many camps.  I mean there is low carb.  There is high carb.  There is vegan. There is Mediterranean.  There is Atkins.  Paleo.  There are all these diets that people are trying.  And for me, the blood test I kind of describe as the ultimate proof that your diet is working and it gives you permission to try any diet that you want and if it works for you, you can run with it.

Baris Harvey:  Yes.

Kevin Gianni:  There is just one thing.  You know one thing that I cannot stand is like sitting at the dinner table around the holidays and listening to Uncle Tom, you know, who has read like half of a health book in his life talking about the benefits of protein, you know.  (Laughs)

Baris Harvey:  Yes.

Kevin Gianni:  It is like, you know, suddenly you are a vegan and you are in front of your family members and they are suddenly telling you what you should be doing in your diet.  And you have been around the country for two and a half years and interviewed hundreds of health experts.  And their reference is like CNN or Fox News for health.

Baris Harvey:  Yes, definitely.

Kevin Gianni:  And within that, when someone is challenging you about your diet there is always this thing where you just like, “Uh-hmm.  Are they right?”

Baris Harvey:  Yes.

Kevin Gianni:  You know there is always this kind of like, “Wait a minute.”

Baris Harvey:  Yes, where you are second guessing.  Yes.

Kevin Gianni:  Exactly.  And so the blood test really gives you a piece of mind.  I think it allows you to continue doing what you are doing or it gives you a pre-warning sign.  You know, so not when it is too late.  But if you know how to read them correctly as a good functional medicine doctor would or even a health practitioner.  These days everyone’s getting in this which is just great.   You can adjust your course before it gets too bad.  And that is where it gets into the, you know, the second reason, the more scientific reasons that our audience are trying to maintain a homeostasis.  And if they are not maintaining that you will see it on the blood test, and then you can make minor or large adjustments in the diet and tweak just enough so you can stay healthy.  Because I mean the ultimate goal is to live long, happy and healthy, right?  So by doing a protocol blood testing on a yearly or twice a year, or for some people who are sick maybe they need to do it even more frequently.  What that does is it kind of narrows your course.  So you just do not shoot off too far in one direction and then shoot back across the other way.  You kind of can stay within these parameters of optimal wellness or beyond wellness, I guess that is right?

Baris Harvey:  Yes.  Definitely.  And for listeners out there the previous episode if you did not listen, we talked about Functional Lab Testing 101.  Yes.  Definitely.  That is a really good one.   I did not even think about the peace of mind thing where we can think, “Oh, do I have or are my markers right?”  I can kind of assume I feel good but I do not know.   But if you get the blood work done, and you get the salivary test and all the different metabolic markers tested then you can actually see like, “Okay, I am on track or okay there is something messed up that I did not know about.  And I can feel even better than I do now.”

Kevin Gianni:  Well, you can save money, too.  I mean that is another big thing.  If your vitamin D levels are fine you can pause your vitamin D supplements.  Or if your B12 is good, folate, I mean like if your B vitamins are fine you do not need to take your multivitamin or super green grass herb, you know, that kind of whatever.  And then you can look at that as a decision that you make to like so and I am not knocking super green herbs supplements.  I take them.  Believe me.  Then you can make that decision based on not like a fear-based kind of thing like, “Oh my gosh, do I have enough?”  It is like, “Oh, I just want to add this in.”  And that is coming from a much better a place.

Baris Harvey:  Yes, definitely.  And speaking of supplements and you talked about being vegan and raw vegan in the past.  What are some supplements that you noticed might be important for someone who is out there who is a vegan listening to the show or maybe a raw food vegan?  What might be important for them to take?  Because there are going to be some vitamins that we know like vitamin B12 they might be low in iron.  Some of these nutrients that are hard to get from plant-based foods.  What are some supplements that you think might be beneficial for vegans?

Kevin Gianni:  The first thing, of course, before the supplements is when anyone is doing an extreme diet like vegan or raw food, and look, I think just any healthy diet can be considered extreme just because not too many other people are doing it, right?  A Paleo can be extreme as well.  You know, so I am not just calling out like eating raw food is extreme.  Because I think you know in the outskirts of diet there are actually some really good places that are extremes.

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmmm.

Kevin Gianni:  But first off, get your blood tested. Do not mess around.  So you are doing something that needs to be monitored.  You need some because it is like you are moved from just like surviving to now you need to be and then you put yourself in a scientific experiment.  So you need to monitor yourself.  So that is like the first thing to do.  With supplement, yes I mean a lot of people talk about B12.  People who eat meat as well can be deficient in B12.  I have seen studies.  I mean, you never know some of these studies but I have seen everything from like 15% to like 80% deficient.  (Laughs)  So I do not know the numbers there but I mean the blood test will be able to tell you.  You know, if you yourself are deficient and forget about whether half of the population is or not.  You know, vitamin D could be one that a lot of people need to.  You know for some people a plant-based protein is really good because you metabolize fast.  You are a fast metabolizer if you are hot.  If you are more like in the Ayurvedic space like a Pitta type body type, warmer, sweatier, more fiery.  Those types of people definitely need some extra protein.  We can get it from plant-based foods, too.  I mean it is not like you just need to go straight to supplements, or to a protein supplement but those type of people definitely function better with higher protein in their diet.  Omega 3 is always a big one.  You can get some plant-based omega 3 as well.  Or if you are just not vegan enough to be able to accept like krill oil or something like that then that can be something that you can take as well.   But there are also some plant-based essential fatty acids that are good as well from algae.  So those are like the main ones.  But that is not always the main ones for everyone, right?

Baris Harvey:  Yes.

Kevin Gianni:  Those are things, like the first that you would tick off the dial if you need to get healthy, right?

Baris Harvey:  Yes, definitely.  And like you said that usually does not mean something everybody takes.  Like I take, you know the fish oil capsule and my buddy who is a vegan he is going to take an algae thing to get some extra omega 3.  So, definitely, definitely important things to take.  I am going to go back real quick.  You were talking about your traveling across the country interviewing different experts, interviewing different ideas.  So two things.  One, you are recording all of these interviews on your camera, right?

Kevin Gianni:  Yes.

Baris Harvey:  So you have this massive, massive content on YouTube that people can find.  They just search Kevin Gianni or Renegade Health or they can find your YouTube page.  The second thing, how were you selecting your experts and was it like just recommendations off the same thing or are you getting a lot of varied ideas?  And how would that change like on a week to week or day to day basis on how you ate?  Like if you just went to one doctor and said, “Oh, now like kale is the most awesome food in the world.”   And the next guy says, “Well, it has all these things that mess with your thyroid.”

Kevin Gianni:  (Laughs)

Baris Harvey:  Like how do you go?  Would you just buy a bunch of kale one week and the next say like, “Oh, I made a mistake!”  And then the next week say, “Oh I need more.” How was this kind of journey going on?

Kevin Gianni:  (Laughs) I have this kind of a duality kind of principle about all these.  It is like you trust very deeply but disbelieve at the same time.  It is kind of like this thing where I kind of define the edges.  I think it helps because believing, you know, we could go into one doctor’s office and set up the camera and listen to something and I would be just totally into it.  I would be totally convinced this is exactly what I need for my health.  And I would go out and I make it a point to do my best.  And let us say I do about 80% of the time.  When I do an interview with someone I do one of the things that they mention.  It is just ingrained in me now like that is what I could do.  I do it every time I read a book, too.  When you read a book that could be like a thousand things you can do.  I just pick one and I do it.

Baris Harvey:  Yes.

Kevin Gianni:  And if a want to revisit it I can.  If not it is fine, too.  But that is really kind of what I focus on.  It is just like one thing.  So you go to one doctor and they say just like you said, “Eat a lot of kale.  Raw kale.  Eat it with your smoothies.  Drink it with your green juice.”  And then you go to the next doctor two days later in Cleveland or if you are driving up through Ohio or something from Columbus to Cleveland and then the next doctor said, “Well, you should not be eating it raw because now it is going to damage your thyroid and you are going to be sluggish.”  And you are just like, “Whoa!  Wait a minute!”  And so for me, I always take the baseline of kind of longevity studies.  And that is where this new book that will be out in July 2015.  I wanted to separate myself from like the minutiae, like the little details and then take a larger look at kind of everything.  That is all our diets and what it kind of comes down with.  But the thing that we want, again, what most of us really want is longevity.  So it is that long, healthy, happy life.  And so for me, what is the best way to figure out what that is?  Well, it is just fine cultures of actually live long, healthy, happy, right? (Laughs)  And then see when they do it almost try to be constructive a little bit.  Unfortunately, when you go to the studies of some of these cultures what you realize is they do not give a crap about nutrition.  (Laughs)  They are going to eat what is there.

Baris Harvey:  Exactly it is just like, “Oh, this is what is food on the mountain.”

Kevin Gianni:  Right.  Which is why I think it kind of gets us into trouble because I have seen it in Peru when I have spent some time with the Caral. The Carals was long lived as some of the people from the blue zones, you know like Dan Buettner’s book with the people like the Okinawans, the Nicoyans, Sardinians or Loma Linda, the Seventh Day Adventist in Loma Linda, California.  But the Caral, they were longer lived before they started coming down from the mountains up in the Andes into the cities.  And I have been around some of my Caral friends who, they will be up in the mountains and they will be eating just like Apopka and potatoes and like 80 to 90% of their diet is of potatoes.  And then they will come down into the city and they will just walk into like a little corner shop and just buy junk foods.  You know what I mean?  I do not think it is just a thing like it is just food. (Laughs)

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Kevin Gianni:  And they just eat it.  Whatever it is that is just available they will eat.  And obviously there is this sensory kind of explosion that comes with high salt or high sugar or high fat kind of foods.  So I always go back to these very basic kind of friends like, “Well, alright what would the Okinawan do?  Or what would someone from Sardinia doing?”   And they just would eat like real food.  You know, what I mean.  Like you know my friend Sean Croxton said you just need real food.  So with that baseline it is real easy to kind of explore but also just always know that is the bottom line.  Lots of plants, you can eat some meat it is great.  Do not eat too much oil; you do not need too much.  And salt is okay.  But you do not need like totally blowout, you know.  Just neutral with salt.  And just enjoy your life.  (Laughs)

Baris Harvey:  Right.

Kevin Gianni:  Really comes as a simple equation.

Baris Harvey:  Yes.  So that really kind of guides you to just eat raw food from like becoming orthorexic and getting crazy into these things.  I could guess if we go to different experts and then like, “Yes, I am going to take this tactic and implement it now.”  And then you have a lot of people switching what you are thinking.   There might have been a period in time where there might have been a little orthorexia in there, right?  Maybe, I do not know.

Kevin Gianni:  For me, yes.  I mean I remember I would be sitting in the RV, at this time I was a full raw food vegan.  So I have this big bowl of salad.  And I mean this thing was, I probably could have fed a horse, right?

Baris Harvey:  (Laughs)

Kevin Gianni:  And I would sit there and I would chew this salad for an hour.  Take an hour, an hour and a half.  But I would literally look at the clock and then I would just eat and I am going to be thinking about things and then I would just maybe read something and still eating and still eating.  And I just get up and, “My gosh, I just spent an hour of this day eating, one twenty fourth of this day eating this nacho salad.”  And what was crazy about it is that about 30 minutes since eating that salad I was wondering what the heck I was going to eat for dinner.

Baris Harvey: (Laughs)

Kevin Gianni: Because I was just so consumed about my food, right?

Baris Harvey:  Yes.

Kevin Gianni:  And that is orthorexia.  You know what I mean.  So, I was so concerned about it.  So what happened was after all these stuff kind of happened and I have adrenal fatigue and then I started to go off with vegan diet kind of just was a little bit disheartened by everything.  And I am like, “Well, this extreme diet did not work the way it would everyone.”  Well, not everyone but the people that I was talking to would tell me to do this super powerful longevity diet.  I might as well eat literally like I want as long as it is organic.   That is just like eat real foods maybe like squared or something like that so make it double.  And that does not work either.  You know, there is definitely a sort of conscious moderation that needs to be put into play when you are consuming real food, too.  Because again you know based on some of our genetic response, a little bit, our bodies respond to factors like taking the genetics too far.  Let us say, well, you know we are all just so super individuals.  I do not know how super individuals we are.  There definitely is a collection of types.  You know, whether five or ten, or twenty or forty even a hundred.  You know, there are definitely collection types of people.  So you cannot just follow a whatever-goes-diet if it is organic.  I will not.  And there are some rules that you cannot pass by for your health.

Baris Harvey:  Yes.  It is funny.  Something that I would like to say when I would compare myself to Harvey’s it is like, “Oh, well, like a polar bear is going to eat a bunch of meat and a panda bear is going to eat a bunch of bamboo.”  So that one is like vegan and one is carnivorous.  But neither of them is eating McDonald’s.  You know what I mean?

Kevin Gianni:  True.

Baris Harvey:  So there is kind of like the individuality part.  But then we know out of baseline kind of thing where it is okay but we know generally most people should eat this type of way.  But there is still your kind of genetic individual kind of spectrum as well.

Kevin Gianni:  I think the most solid piece of dietary evidence that I found through all of the research I have done, all of the interviews that I have done is that the diet is not what is getting you to be healthy per se.  It is what you need out of your diet, right?

Baris Harvey:  Yes.

Kevin Gianni:  So, if you look at all the different peoples who are eating and living long.  So, the Okinawans, you know, at one point they were eating 85% of their diet of sweet potato.  Then you look at the Nicoyans who tend to eat rice, beans just typical life in Central and South American kind of cuisine.  And then when you look at the Greek and Sardinian people who are eating, you know, just again a lot of fresh vegetables and some meat.  I mean the medium is different, the food is different.

Baris Harvey:  Yes.

Kevin Gianni:  So it is not like you can just pin all your health on one food.  It is not just like goji berries are the most important berry in the world.  It is no, they are not.  I mean there are blueberries which are amazing and they grow in New Jersey and they grow in all these places that are local to Americans but we go to goji berry from China.

Baris Harvey:  Yes.  It is funny that you said that because my girlfriend, she is a Nicaraguan and you mentioned that a lot that is in the American cultures.  You may be eating like rice and beans and it is totally different than if I was just preaching like, “Hey, well, you are supposed to be Paleo.”  And we eat meat and we do not eat beans or legumes or rice and it is like, “Whoa, maybe that is what her family’s generation after generation after generation has eaten.”  And so sometimes it might be hard to change something like that and maybe it is okay for her to eat a little bit more of that than I would be able to handle.

Kevin Gianni:  Yes.

Baris Harvey:  Definitely.  So I want to talk about probiotics real quick.  I know that this is something that continually grows in the market.  I never really watch so much TV but when I do I will see even a commercial on probiotics or even like your plain yoghurt would probably say something about like they have probiotics in their yoghurt or what not.  Can we talk about probiotics real quick and then talk about where can we find rich probiotic sources in our food?  And whether it is more important to make sure that we are getting that in our food first.

Kevin Gianni:  Yes.  I definitely subscribe to that sort of belief system and there are probiotics out there that can be kind of like therapeutic probiotic.  But for me, getting my healthy bacteria from fermented foods is absolutely the first place to go.  And I have heard so many stories.  I have known Donna Gates for a long time.  And I have interviewed Sandor Katz a few times and I have just heard so many stories about people healing from eating just a regular dose of healthy bacteria every day.  But for me, again it is one of those things that if you were to put the top 10 list of things that are good for your health.  I mean again, I have talked about what you need out of your diet is more important but probiotics is probably up in there.  Maybe in the mid, between 7 and 5.

Baris Harvey:  Yes, definitely.  Can you name some…

Kevin Gianni:  You want me to name some foods?

Baris Harvey:  Yes.

Kevin Gianni:  For me just cultured vegetables.  I mean just eating some sauerkraut; homemade sauerkraut, raw sauerkraut and not the sauerkraut that you will find in a plastic a bag at the grocery store.  It is probably by far the best.  And you can put this on anything.  You can put it on a salad.  You can put it on whatever you are eating.  It literally just goes with absolutely everything.  And that is the first one.  Sometimes I have some kefirs.  I do not drink a lot of dairy or eat a lot of dairy anymore.  To me it just does not settle that well.  I am not saying that people should or should not eat it.  So kefirs can be really good. And it is always best if you made them.  Here in the Bay Area there are always someone who does it better than you, right?  (Laughs)

Baris Harvey:  Right.

Kevin Gianni:  You can find it somewhere.  But that is not the same for everywhere.  So, if you are not in the area where you can access this then you are going to have to make it yourself because it is better.  Because you know that the bacteria are thriving.  But that is really important.  And that is why I get skeptical about some of the probiotic supplements just because you know a lot of the ones that you are just going to find at maybe in your local health food store.  But definitely you know some of the other places if someone is walking into Trader Joe’s or something like that I would be really concerned buying your supplements there.  But you know, I question the effectiveness of these bacteria in the actual strength of the strain if you are buying them off the shelf at a grocery store.  And that is not to say that you should not do that, I am just saying it is really good to add in.  It is almost like an insurance policy to add in the fermented foods as well.   So you can actually be pretty darn sure that you are getting what you need.

Baris Harvey:  Yes.  And like in diverse kind of foods and also I know a lot of people sometimes if they are on a more strict kind of diet sometimes they feel like they are limited.  Well, try some probiotic foods out and it really enhances the flavor of your food as well.  So it is really a good idea.  I wanted to go into skin care and detoxification real quick.  I know that nowadays there are so many new toxic ingredients put into just everything that are introduced to earth because of man-made toxic chemicals that we created.  And sometimes we start to fix all of the things wrong with our diet but then we are still smearing like horrible stuff on our skin.  You with your wife actually came out with an all‑organic and all-natural skin care line.  Can you tell me a little bit about it and why you guys came up with it as well?

Kevin Gianni:  Well, we are eating a healthy diet.  Well, at least a healthy diet we thought was healthy.  But we are definitely purists at that time and to some degree I still am.  And we were getting a lot of questions.  That is right; we are getting a lot of questions as we are doing our videos people would ask me and Marie, “What are you putting on your skin?”  And I never would have thought of skin care.  As a guy it just never really came out across my radar.  I was focused on food now and I was focused on some fitness before so like skin care I just did not get it.  I mean, like we just use soap in the shower, right?  And you wash your hair with shampoo, you know.  (Laughs)  So that is my extent of body care.  And so we started to look around for a product that we can just recommend.  And once we started doing that we realized that there was a lot of shady stuff going on in the skin care industry including when we decided finally not to actually just represent a line.  We decided that we wanted to create our own.  We went to formulators and we would get a list of ingredients that we would look at them like, “This is not what we want.”  And they said, “Well, you do not have to put a couple of these on the labels.  It is fine.”   And we said, “Whoa!  Wait a minute.” (Laughs)  What on earth is happening?  This is like a bizarre world.  This is not how I do business or this is not even how I am as a person.  You know what I mean?

Baris Harvey:  Yes.

Kevin Gianni:  This is crazy, totally for me.  It is like under reporting your taxes or something, you know.  It is just stuff that you do not do.  So we ended up finally running into an organic spa in Arizona and Annmarie found a line which was used, “Oh, my gosh!  They just absolutely made them.  And so we contacted the owner of the company and we said, “Can we sell it?  Can we have it on our online stores?”  And she said, “No, we only sell to spas.”  So we were really disappointed and hung up the phone and the next day I was like, “Wait a minute!  Why don’t we ask her if she can help us formulate a line?”   And so we called her back and she said, “Sure!”  So it was kind of like, “What did we ask her the first time?  Why did not she recommend she could do that for us?  Maybe she did not think we would.  So we did that with her and since then it has been five years now.  We have been providing this super natural organic but beyond organic kind of products.  But a lot of people are really enjoying it which makes us very happy.  Nontoxic, none of that garbage in there and everything is on the label, you know.

Baris Harvey:  Yes, definitely.  The way it is supposed to be, right?

Kevin Gianni:  Uh-hmm.

Baris Harvey:  Yes, definitely.  That makes a big difference.  And you guys can find that at Annmarie Gianni or just kind of like Marchegiani, has the same Italian last name.  So, yes definitely.

Kevin Gianni:  Uh-hmm.

Baris Harvey:  So you also have a book coming out in the future like you mentioned called “Kale and Coffee”.  Can you tell us just a little bit about that and what would we be looking out for?

Kevin Gianni:  Yes.  This book is kind of the synthesis of my extreme diet, getting it healthy and then turning around and saying it is good.  I am just going to eat whatever I want as long as it is organic and then gaining 30-35 pounds and even more depending on where you started.  Like when I was eating raw food I was like 160 pounds and then I got up to 223.  So I mean, I am not going to count like good 20 pounds from like 160 to 180 because that was like underweight, right?  But I have totally flipped the switch and went off on the other side just because I was tired of it.  I really was just done.  And then of course when you are 30 to 100 pounds over your ideal body weight you do not feel comfortable or do not feel good either.  And it was very strange to me because I have never felt that way.  And I have worked with people who, you know, were even 120, 130, 140 pounds overweight and I just did not really feel, at that time I did not feel the way I think I can feel a little bit more for them.  I almost wanted to go back and call my personal training clients and apologize a little bit and just say I did not even understand, you know.  And so when I kind of put that sort of hat on, I wanted to see how I could get back to being healthy in where I could have the healthy things that I really like for my healthy lifestyle or my extreme diet lifestyle.  But also kind of have a little bit of, “Hey, you know what?  I can do this.”  So just to give up some of the real strict kind of diet and have some of the things that I really just did not want to live without.  And for someone, for anyone listening that could mean anything.  For someone that could be a little bit of carbohydrates, to be able to have sugar, to be able to have coffee, can be a little wine, beer or whatever.  You know, whatever your thing is.  And so I went back and I re-analyzed everything.  I looked back at almost all my interviews and I did new research and I came up with this book that essentially just picks out the most important things that you can do to live that long, healthy and happy life.  And that kind of puts aside all the other stuff.  There were a lot of research about different foods and particularly categories of foods like sugar and carbs, gluten, coffee, alcohol.  And I just analyzed them and really kind of come down to the conclusion about whether these are healthy or not.

Baris Harvey:  Yes.  Definitely.  So you mentioned that thing in your book because I know that it is unique and different for everybody.  And you had adrenal fatigue in the past.  You mentioned coffee.  For you, how does that kind of plan, how does that work for you?  Or if it does not work for you what are some alternatives?

Kevin Gianni:  I want coffee to work for me so badly. (Laughs)

Baris Harvey:  (Laughs)

Kevin Gianni:  I want it to work.  And I have tried so many ways for it to work.  But for me because I do tend to have adrenal type, whether I just am an adrenal type, I tend to get adrenal fatigue very fast.  Caffeine, it is just not good for me.  And even green tea.  When I was writing the book like I was not even drinking coffee anymore because I knew that would just make me a total monster.  But I was drinking green tea and I got to the point where I was starting to feel how I feel if I drink coffee on an extended period of time.  And so I just kind of stepped back from that.  You know, when I drink caffeine I get heart palpitations.  It could be a genetic thing actually.  So for me, it is just you know that side of my life is almost over.  I still would have green tea every once in a while but for me I just know I cannot do coffee.  But with that said, for the book I did interview Dave Asprey and we did talk about mycotoxins in coffees.

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Kevin Gianni:  And I told him the grains and beans that we eat they do tend to sit in place for a while sometimes before we even get them into our pots and pans at home. And so you do know your better options.  I think Dave’s coffee is a better option.  David Wolfe has a longevity coffee which I think is a better option.   So there are better options.  But for me it is just one of those things, it is just not on that list of things that I can still have. (Laughs)  You know what I mean?

Baris Harvey:  Yes. Definitely.

Kevin Gianni:  It is disappointing.  Every once in a while I will have a cup of coffee but I have come to a point now where I just know that I need to stay away or else it is just going to make me feel miserable.

Baris Harvey:  Yes. Definitely.  So, for you out there, you guys can get genetic testings.  I know there is 23andMe and there are some other companies.  But sometimes you can just tell.  Like I have not done that test yet but I can tell I am probably a fast metabolizer of caffeine just because I can drink coffee and go to sleep.

Kevin Gianni:  Yes.

Baris Harvey:   I have like the exact opposite results.  I know there are some people that are like, “Yes, I can drink green tea and sometimes get jittery.”  And it is like, “Okay, yes.”  So if you are in tuned with your body sometimes you just know.

Kevin Gianni:  You just know.  And I am a slow metabolizer of caffeine.  So I have that mutation in my, oh, actually I do not know if that one is a mutation or it is just normal.  I do not know which one is but I have it. (Laughs)  I have this slow metabolism with coffee.

Baris Harvey:  Yes, definitely.  So for the listeners out there, you guys can find Kevin at the Renegade.  Is it Renegade Health show on your YouTube, right?

Kevin Gianni:  It is Renegade Health show on YouTube and it is on the web.

Baris Harvey:  Definitely.  Go there and then also Annmarie Gianni for the skin care line.  Do you have any other sites that we can point you at or are those all?

Kevin Gianni:  No, man.  That is it.

Baris Harvey:  Yes, you got a lot of stuff online and a lot of content.  And like I said you have a thousand videos on YouTube.  It is great.

Kevin Gianni:  It is 937 I think.

Baris Harvey:  Oh, there you go, yes.  It will be where your podcasts so get there soon.  Yes. Definitely.  And then also, yes you have a podcast.  Is that also called the Renegade Health Show?

Kevin Gianni: It is Renegade Health Radio that is on ITunes.

Baris Harvey:  Definitely.  You guys subscribe there as well.  Kevin, thank you so much for coming on the show today.  And for the listeners out there make sure you go to Beyond Wellness Radio, subscribe and go to ITunes and give us a rating.  It really helps to get the show out and boost our visibility to other people so we can get this message out.  So thank you guys so much.


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