Are You Sensitive to Antinutrients (Salicylates and Oxalates) in Plant Food? | Podcast #336

Food intolerance are very common problems that can be difficult to diagnose. In this video, Dr. J and Evan explain the causes and symptoms of salicylate oxalates sensitivity. Salicylates are compounds that you can find in foods, medications, and other products that can cause adverse reactions in intolerant ones. An intolerrance to these compounds is linked with a wide variety of symptoms, making it hard to identify. The most common symptoms involve the respiratory system. However, the skin and intestinal tract may also be affected.

Oxalates are often known as an anti-nutrient, as they tend to bind up some crucial nutrients in foods, which stops them from being fully absorbed. Intolerrance occurs in your body when the oxalates themselves are not detoxified from the body, allowing them to build up in the tissues. A low-oxalate diet is commonly advised for joint conditions including arthritis and gout and children on the spectrum.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

In this episode, we cover:

0:09     What are Antinutrients

4:15     Diet Templates

12:51   Carnivore based Diets

17:06   Root Causes on Inflammation

21:21   AIP

27:24   Magnesium Benefits

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Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And we are live. It’s not the J here in the house with Evan Brand. Today we are going to be chatting about anti nutrients in food. Anti nutrients are one of these controversial topics because a lot of plants have a lot of nutrients in them, right blueberries, right? raspberries, a lot of these really good like spinach, spinach, things like that, right? But they have some of these things known as anti nutrients, whether it’s oxalates, or phytates, or salicylates, right, these are kind of under the overall umbrella of phenol, right polyphenols. And for people that are sensitive, and have gut issues and immune stress, this may be something that actually causes more harm than good. If you have good gut health, the nutrients in those food are going to be obviously beneficial. So it just depends kind of where you sit in that scale. But today, we’re gonna dive in and break it down. Evan, how are we doing today, man?

Evan Brand: I’m doing really well. And I’ll tell a quick story. And then we’ll dive into this thing. So I noticed that my daughter was complaining after I gave her blueberries we do some organic wild blueberries, I may give those to her just on a plate just as a snack or I may just put those in a smoothie and we’ll do like some grass fed beef peptides. And then I noticed she said, Daddy, my tummy hurts. And I thought, huh, that’s interesting. And I correlated it to the blueberries. And upon researching into salicylates, the quote, very high category of salicylate foods would be blueberries, cherries, blackberries, apricots, orange, pineapple, raisin, strawberries, tangerines, and then lower than that, like high but not very high. You got apples, you have avocados, you have Mandarin, nectarine, passion fruit, peach, and then like your very, very low. salicylates would be like pear or banana, or Papa, which we have here. A lot of pawpaw trees in Kentucky. That’s kind of a native fruit. They’re kind of weird. But some people really, really like them. That’s what Yeah, yeah, they’re cool. They’re cool tree. But it’s a pretty short tree, and they’ve got a pawpaw fruit on it. It’s kind of interesting thing. But anyhow. So long story short, I’ve determined there’s definitely a trigger. And totally, we’ve talked about this before, with like paleo and more carnivore type diets. The idea is that if you just go more meat based animal based diet, you’re really pulling a lot of these anti nutrients out. And that’s why people feel better. But that still doesn’t get to the root cause of why you’re having the intolerance in the first place. So I think that’s important, you and I eventually get to that, I think it’s good. We’re gonna give some backstory and education. But I think it’s important to point out early on here that if you have a sensitivity to these foods, it’s not to mean that you can’t or shouldn’t eat those foods. It’s you got to figure out why are you so sensitive, and there are some big root causes we’re going to dive into?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. Now. I just I like to, I like to have a lot of common sense. Try to be like the mayor of Rio Ville here, right? So if you’re coming in, and you’re listening to this podcast, and you’re on like a standard American diets, so to speak, don’t worry about it. We’re just trying to get you to eat whole foods that are nutrient dense, anti inflammatory, and low toxin like that’s our first step out of the gates. This is all window dressing, right? So once you’ve been doing the right diet, doing the right thing, and you’re still having some gut issues, some immune issues, this is kind of where we’re going to come in and fine tune things after the fact. So if you’re coming in, and you’re like, Man, this is like killing me. I can’t eat blueberries, like everyone’s telling me blueberries are healthy, what the heck, right? I get it, that can be really overwhelming. So don’t worry about that out of the gates just really get a good nutrient dense anti inflammatory, low toxin. Get your carbs and check out of the gate. Start with that before you do any thing. Else. Any comments on that evidence?

Evan Brand: Yeah, well said. And if you’re coming in, and you’re new to the diet game, nutrition game, really just organic as much as possible. And paleo is going to be a great starting place for you. We don’t want you to be afraid of certain foods or certain food categories. This is more of like a nutrition 301 nutrition 401 level courses is like a college level nutrition course. Because if you come in, and now like you said, You’re afraid of blueberries, you’re going to be too stressed. So these are this is more designed for people that are maybe working with us clinically, or they’re working with another, you know, functional medicine practitioner, and they’re maybe still teasing apart some things that are irritating them. This is going to be for you guys. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. So 90% of people are going to go on some kind of a paleo or autoimmune template, and that’s going to be enough, right? Others are going to have to do things like cooking the food can decrease some of these anti nutrients, it can decrease some of the oxalates some of the salicylates some of the fight dates, right? We know things like knots are very high in fight dates. For instance, you know, soaking those can be helpful. Obviously, going on an autoimmune diet, we’re going to restrict knots, right. So kind of going autoimmune. We’re going to be restricting a lot of these foods just in general, going paleo you kind of restrict a lot of them because there’s a lot of anti nutrients in grains. So grains are going to be a big anti nutrient one beans and lentils are going to be a big anti nutrient one. So just by kind of getting on board of a paleo template where we’re cutting out grains, legumes and dairy. Maybe we have some meats and Vegetables and Fruits and safe starches, safe searches or grain free searches. And maybe some fats, including some dairy, that’s great, we may have to go one level up where we restrict even butter and dairy, and of course, even nuts and seeds, right. And then of course, after that, we may have to be doing extra things like restricting fodmaps, because of the fermentable carbohydrates that are in some of these healthy foods like broccoli and brussel sprouts. And again, the reason why these foods have to be restricted is not because the foods themselves are bad, but because it’s more of the gut, your micro biomes interaction with those foods that are the problem. So if we have bacterial overgrowth, right, and you’re interacting with these foods, then you’re going to be creating lots of gases in your intestinal tract like methane and hydrogen that are going to throw off your your motility that are going to make it harder to digest your food to absorb your food to break down protein to break down fat. So it can really throw off a lot of these different things. So I always tell patients out of the gate, the goal is to eat the right foods that allow you to feel as good as possible, not add more stress on your body. And ideally, your body can break them down because healthy foods not broken down. They ferment they are instead of phi. They putrefy and they basically rot inside your tummy and that’s not good. So we have to have those kind of things lined up and some people with autoimmune stuff, we have to go and restrict the salicylates or the oxalates. And again, for instance, I see a lot of chronic eczema patients. Sometimes we really have to go low salicylates. On XM. I see that a lot with eczema. salicylates are a big one. So I have a handout that I use a patient’s pull it up here in a second, where we kind of work on restricting a lot of the salicylates and potentially some of the oxalates. If we see a lot of vulvodynia, like just random, like joint pain, tissue pain, a lot of times those oxalate crystals can get into that tissue and really create inflammation. And we can assess that with a specific organic acid test and Opus oxalates there. And we can also look at a lot of the underlying skin stuff that we see there’s a lot of chronic eczema that’s not getting better with an autoimmune diet, we may look at going low solicited as well. So there’s a lot of different tools we have in our tool bag. But all of it comes back to the gut, we have to work on the six hours and moving the bad foods, we may have to go deeper, like I mentioned with the other foods with cooking the foods really well. Nothing wrong, really working on enzymes and acids and bile support really working on gut healing support, anti inflammatory support, that’s gonna be the foundation before we go in and address gut killing, because gut killing can be stressful on the gut, and you have to have those first two to three hours lined up to mitigate damage.

Evan Brand: Yeah, and you brought up the organic acids test we’ve seen to clinically the correlation between candida overgrowth and oxalates being high. So interestingly enough, when we come in and we use a protocol, like you’re mentioning, will come in and address gut infections, whether it’s parasites, worms, H. pylori, fungal overgrowth, we’ll see those oxalate markers come down quite a bit. So in a lot of cases where people are sensitive to these food groups, finding the gut infections, and then fixing those gut infections can reduce the sensitivity. So this is the problem I have with people that are just strictly nutritionist is they can avoid going deep enough. And you could just keep tweaking the diet and Someone may say yeah, I feel better with low salicylate low oxalate, and then they think that’s just their life sentence. But that’s really boring over time. And I think there are beneficial antioxidants in the foods that you will miss out on. So I think it is important to be able to have a very diet. I’m a huge fan of animal based diet, but I’m still wanting to do some nuts and seeds and blueberries and maybe some starch here and there. Here’s one interesting thing I wanted to read, which is that excess salicylates work similarly in the body as oxalates that they both can lead to inflammation. And what they’re going to do is they’re going to create the overproduction of leukotrienes. And these are inflammatory mediators that can increase the risk of health issues like asthma and inflammatory bowel disease. And you also mentioned skin issues. So I’m sure the histamine connection is is definitely part of it, too. And that’s why we see benefit with things like course attend or natural anti histamines with these type of people, they tend to do better.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep. 100%. Because what you’re having, we’re having a major effect on modulating the immune system. So that makes a big difference, right. And then of course, making sure we’re able to break down our foods using things like an instant pot to help break down the foods. Be careful of things like crock pots just because the longer cooking can increase histamine. A lot of people who are sensitive to these females or salicylates or oxalates, or fight dates, they also tend to be histamine sensitive. So it’s kind of it’s overwhelming for people out of the gates that have a lot of immune imbalances because they really have to restrict a lot of stuff. And so, you know, some have to go to carnivore, they need fresher meats, they need to cook it up in a more fast way. And we did not have a lot of leftovers hanging around for days later because of the histamine accumulation. So those are the things you got to be very, very careful of. Also people feel better fasting, that’s also a good sign. When you’re fasting, you’re not eating any food. So you’re also not eating the things that are making you sick either. And so a lot of times, part of the reason why fasting is great for a lot of people isn’t just necessarily because of the cellular autophagy and the insulin resistance and all those mtorr pathways, you know, being reduced. It’s, you’re just not eating things that are making you sick, even if they’re healthy things, you know, like blueberries and your daughter, for instance, no one will be like, Oh, that’s like, that’s like junk food, of course that make her sick. No, that wouldn’t go on most people’s radar screens, but we know that there’s some anti nutrients that could be a driving factor in that.

Evan Brand: It’s interesting how berries, if you think of the just amazing evolution of fruit, and you think of the most vulnerable, most soft, easily ruined fruit, you’re going to think of the berries. I mean, you think of raspberries, I mean, I’ve seen countless times where I pick them up at the store at a farmers market. And man those things in less than a week those things are going moldy, they’re getting soft and gooey. So make sense why salicylates are so high in the berries, because essentially what it is, is a natural pesticide, and it’s an antifungal. So the goal is, the plant is trying to protect itself so that it can get to the proper stage and development that it wants to. So what does it do? Well, it doesn’t have teeth to bite the offender. So it has to create some sort of mechanism. And that mechanism is salicylates to protect it versus something like an avocado. It’s got that nice outer shell protecting it. So it doesn’t have to be as high in salicylates because it’s already protected. So that’s just a really cool thing to think about how nature works.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And then animals don’t have any of that, because animals have teeth and the ability to you know, fight back from a certain bit. So you have less anti nutrients on the animal side. And that’s why you see a lot of these carnivore groups pop up that are like, Oh my gosh, like look at all the my autoimmunity is reversed. Why? Well, it’s because animals don’t have the need for anti nutrients because they have claws or hooves or can run and and can fight so to speak, right. And so you have less anti nutrients and a lot of these animal products. So when you see a lot of people reversing significant autoimmune condition with carnivore or semi carnivore diets. And again, a carnivore diet is an autoimmune diet. It’s an it’s a low fodmap diet to it’s also those lists laid, so it’s low anti nutrient as well. But you see these stories, and the question is why? And most people, they’re very dogmatic about it. It’s like, Oh, no, it’s this diet. This is what did it and they don’t really understand the mechanism mechanism of what’s actually happening. biochemically and physiologically, they just kind of a look at it more like a religion than it is. But let’s just break down the science, right? Let’s look at reason, logic and evidence. And so the reason logic and evidence is reducing these anti nutrients. And then also we chatted about our show, a lot of times the salicylates and females and anti nutrients become more of a problem is when we have low sulfur a low glutathione to run a lot of our detoxification pathways. And a lot of times these sulfur nutrients have a major effect on modulating our immune system too.

Evan Brand: Yeah, well, here’s the interesting thing. You’ve got these people that are going on the diet, so I need to look them up. George St. Pierre, he’s a pretty- he’s a fighter, an MMA fighter. Yeah, yeah, he’s, uh, I don’t know if he still is, or if he’s retired, or what his deal is. But anyway, I’ve seen him posting that he’s gone to carnivore diet. He was doing like a 30 day carnivore challenge talking about how much better he feels. And he’s posting all these pictures of his, his steaks. And so like you said, it does become kind of religion, like, okay, it’s the vegan versus the meat group. But I think it’s more important to highlight, okay, he’s probably got something going on in his gut that’s driving his autoimmune issue, or whatever his issues were, that led him to more meat based diet. And you could do meat, meat, meat and remove all the anti nutrients, sure, but what did you not address and that’s the problem that I have is when people are gonna go and just eat a grass fed steak twice a day. And that’s it for their diet, or maybe a handful of this or that they’re still missing, the deeper thing. So let’s talk about that. Let’s dive into more of these bigger things. Because people are not going to investigate it, they’re just going to do the diet, they’re going to feel better and that’s as far as it goes, they’re never going to talk about what you and I are hitting on which is you mentioned.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’ll just hit one more thread one more thread real fast people that would go on like let’s say a meat only diet or carnivore based diet, and they feel worse. Why is that right? They’re gonna just think oh, it’s the animal products is it it’s like no animal products are very taxing on your digestive system. So if you have an adequate C’s and HCl or enzymes or even bile salts, that weakness will be exposed by eating the meat cuz you may not have enough acid or enzyme or bile to break down that protein and fat. Therefore that foods going to feel like a brick in your stomach. You’re going to feel indigestion you’re going to feel bloated, you’re going to feel motility issues, and so that could throw you off too. So if you are going to go carnivore and make changes in these diets, low hanging fruit always is going to be how we cook the food, even if it’s plants, right because just steaming and putting our plants in some kind of a stew or soup, or just even roasting it way better than raw and then of course, enzymes and acids in between. By all of our stool is not being broken down. Well, if it’s floating, right, those are all signs of not breaking down fat. And so we have to really make sure those foundational pieces are addr essed.

Evan Brand: Oh yeah, that’s a great call. Because you’re going to have, you’re going to have a large percentage of the people that that do great. But then you’re going to have these people say, Oh, I tried carnivore, and I felt terrible on meats. It’s not the meats you’re pointing out, it’s not that I just want to say in a different way, it’s not necessarily the meats. That’s the problem. It’s your system can’t handle it. Everyone system can and should be able to handle meats. This is what we evolved to eat. But it’s it’s the matter of the underlying infection. So like the H. pylori, reducing the stomach acid, now you’ve got low HCl, you’re going to try to do meats, meats, meats, you’re probably going to be having tons of gas, you might have diarrhea, because you just simply can’t break down the the fat in the protein and you and I are going to measure this right? We’re not going to just say, hey, try this diet, or try that we’re going to do the testing to investigate and what we may see on the stool, we might see high, stouter crit, which is a fecal fat marker, we may see low pancreatic elastase, we may see high calprotectin. There’s gut inflammation, and then we may see these root causes which I want to transition into the bacterial overgrowth, the parasites, the worms, all these infections, which are disrupting the gut, creating the leaky gut, which is then allowing the histamines the oxalates the salicylates to become a problem. So let’s dive into one thing, which is mold toxin. We know that mold toxin is definitely going to affect detox ability and it can create a mast cell problem and I’ve dealt with mast cell problems myself I’m slowly but surely getting better and better and better by doing two things. Number one, eliminating the mold toxin using binders. And then number two stabilizing the mast cells using things like coarse attend, and other mast cell nutrients nettle can be helpful vitamin C to help degrade histamine do with food to help digest the histamine you’re putting in the diet. So I think toxins in general, maybe not just mold, but I think we could say toxins, heavy metals, pesticides, herbicides, anything that’s disrupting the gut is going to be important to to look for with testing and then to treat.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% Yeah, especially if you can get to the root cause, right? If you’re in a moldy home right now, we got to look at that we got to address it. If you have high levels of mold out of the bat, but you’re not in a moldy home, it may be less important to jump on board with detoxification if you already have a lot of crappy digestion issues going on. Because we know a lot of molds going to be eliminated via the hepatobiliary system. So a lot of times we got a time up isn’t the appropriate time to really push and lean on detoxification. That’s an important thing. We live in a generation where we know if we have some kind of a toxin exposure or some kind of a gut, Bob, we want to go after that right now. And sometimes we got to set the table for it get the foundation moving, so we can manage that better.

Evan Brand: Yeah, well said. So let’s chat on the solver piece. You brought up sulfur. So what are things we can do to boost sulfur? Because this is going to help with the solicita a problem. And then also, you know, I know, you know, boosting sulfur is going to help with detox. Right? And it’s going to help boost glutathione production too.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Great question. Let me share my screen here. So you guys can see some stuff. Alright, so this is one of the eating plans that I made, you know, over the years, I’m changing it all the time for my patients to kind of help them give them good feedback. But the key thing is we got to have healthy levels of protein in every meal. All right. And so typically, I’m doing a palm to a fist to a full hand of protein. Now if I have someone coming in with really crappy digestion, and there may be a previous vegan, they may only be able to handle like one bite of like salmon or something, right. So this is like a general template, but it may not work for everyone. Depending on how bad your digestion is. I always tell patients, the worse your digestion is we lean to like gentle stews, and soups where it’s just easier on the body easy to handle. And I try to you know, eat enough. So someone can last about four to five hours. But sometimes if their digestion stinks, they may only be able to eat enough for two to three hours because a smaller amount of food less food in your tummy. And then you just come back more frequently, right? It’s not ideal in the you know, intermittent fasting insulin sensitivity world, right, because you want to have more time between meals and not be grazing all the time. But from a digestive health standpoint, that may be what’s necessary. And then in general, just to look at my eating plan here, healthy proteins, healthy carbs, right, and you can see some of the carbs that are going to be higher in fodmaps. Right, you can see some of the autoimmune foods that are in red, right. So we want to avoid the red the autoimmune foods, we want to be doing more of our non starchy vegetables without the F’s next to them, ideally cooked steamed sauteed and then avoiding some of the five maps right now, for my patients. I have an expandable fodmap handout here. So it’s just it’s more in depth right? You’ll see this come up in a second. This is helpful here is also a great app that I use for things that may be more nuanced called fodmap. A to Z that’s a great one. And then we use some of these oxalates like we’ll look at some of the like I try not to overthink it with the oxalates I just try to look at and say like what are the top three to five things that you’re doing? Maybe on the oxalate side or on the silver This late side, if they’re really sensitive, right, we may just jump onto a carnivore diet and automatically eliminate these, we may just look at these more specifically. And let’s just let’s highlight the ones that are the Most High. Right, and this is one given out by University of Pittsburgh Medical Center. But you can see, we just try to look at the high ones and try to just replace them with a low one. If we’re seeing someone like let’s say, consume a lot of teas, right? or seeing someone do a lot of nuts, right. And again, if you do like an autoimmune paleo template, guess what happens, you’re already cutting out all majority cutting out nuts, you’re already cutting out soy, right? So a lot of times we get a reduction, doing some of like, you know, the the templates that I talked about here, my meal map, just naturally, okay. And then of course, if we have a lot of eczema issues, we may also be looking at this as well and trying to look at some of the higher salicylate foods here. And again, it gets overwhelming. So if you’re, like I mentioned earlier, if you’re coming into this with a standard American diet, and you’re not that great to begin with, don’t worry about this, like, forget about it, just get a good foundation, once the foundation solid, and you’re not quite moving the needle. This is where you work with a practitioner to get to the next level. So I just don’t want anyone coming in that doesn’t have a great day and looks at this. And it’s like holy crap, like, forget this. This is too confusing. Don’t worry about that. Push that aside. This is for people that are already kind of flatlined on that and there are options. 

Evan Brand: Agreed. Yeah, well, you mentioned AIP is going to be eliminating a lot of this stuff anyway. So really, we’re talking about just other terms, other names for diets that have tons of overlap. That’s the key thing that’s coming out of this is like whether it’s animal based, whether it’s full carnivore, whether it’s autoimmune. There’s so many overlapping things that are happening, you’re reducing toxins, you’re reducing anti nutrients, overall, you’re going organic as much as possible. So I think it’s important for people not to get caught up on the name or the term of what, quote, diet you’re eating, we just want you to focus on what is going to make you feel the best. And in general, that’s going to be organic pastured meats. And like you mentioned, if you’re coming as a vegetarian, vegan, maybe you can only do a bite of a grass fed burger at first, then we uncover you have all these gut infections. Now we fix the gut infections boost up acid and enzymes. Now you could do a whole grass fed burger and you feel better than ever, compared to your 20 years of being vegetarian, for example. 100%. Let’s go back to the sulfur though, those handouts were helpful. Let’s go back to sulfur for a minute though, things that we can do we know like foods, for example. So like onions, garlic, which these may be fodmap foods, right? So then we’re going to coach you through this if we’re working with you, but we want to go higher sulfur, so eggs are going to be good if you tolerate those, if you’re on AIP, obviously, you’re not so eggs. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So out of the out of the gate here, like your proteins are going to be excellent for sulfur, right? They’re going to be very high in cysteine. And a lot of the sulfur based amino acids, so any of your fish eggs, if we can do it, darker cut meats are going to be higher, better in a lot of the sulfur amino acids, some of the vegetables that are going to be more sulfur rich, they also may be higher and fodmap. So you have to look at that collard greens, kale, they may be good, but they may also have some of these extra salicylates in there. So we have to look at the vegetable component. And we have to look at the meat component. So the easiest thing out of the gate with silver is just meat if we’re sensitive, because we’re not going to get the anti nutrients on the meat slash protein side. And the key thing is if we have digestive issues, we really have to lean on enzymes and acids, and maybe bile if our stools floating or it’s taking excessive wipes to kind of clean yourself after number two. So we got to look at those things right got to make sure we’re breaking everything down out of the gates there. And then outside of that, just making sure motility is good. If you start eating more protein it like start moving in the carnivore side, you may not have passed as much stool just because a lot of this is going to be reabsorbed and not necessarily come out via fiber in your stool. So stool kind of motility may drop a little bit and that may be on the normal side. Anything else you want to highlight here Evan?

Evan Brand: Yeah, well, here’s something interesting the point that we kind of have this convergence of diets and it really just shows how sick and symptomatic the population is because AIP used to be good enough. And now people are taking it to what I would consider almost more extreme level where they’re literally just doing meats. And of course hopefully a lot of those people can do more animal based which is what I would say my diet is animal based but then I have other foods. But man if everyone is having to go from us to AIP used to clear everybody up now we got to go carnivore to clear people up that just goes to show just how sick as a population we really are, it’s really quite alarming.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It is absolutely is and people need to remember like animal products are nutrient dense. So if we’re just relying on muscle meat, that’s okay, if you’re going more carnivore, try to lean into some bone broth if you can try to do a little bit of work in meat or at least some origami capsules. And you really got to be careful with getting extra enough magnesium and potassium because a lot of times those are going to be more in your green vegetables and plant in plant foods. So if you’re going to be decreasing some of those things, you just got to make sure supplemental You have a good magnesium potassium support. You’re putting a lot of sea salt in your water and or on your meat when you’re seasoning. And so just got to be careful with those electrolyte things which can be easily missed.

Evan Brand: Yeah. So how do you boost sulfur to help the salicylate problem we hit on the proteins, we hit on some of the other foods like maybe some garlic, baby, some onion, some broccoli, things that are going to give m-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and those are going to be high in fodmaps. So again, we have to dovetail that this is where having a clinician than a help adding an HCl adding an enzymes being able to break down those foods, adding in collagen, amino acids or bone broth, which is very high in glycine, which is very sulfur, we may need to add in some things like n acetylcysteine. Again, it may not be great out of the gates, NAC is also a biofilm buster. So a lot of the high sulfur stuff can also knock down biofilms for the bacteria. So it just depends kind of where people are out of the gate. So what I tend to do is add in some gentle collagen, amino acids, or some freeform amino acids in a capsule form, maybe some bone broth, you know, as long as there’s no histamine issues, and really lean on digestive support, I’m going to do that out of the gate. And then maybe when it’s time to do gut killing, maybe we’ll add in some extra and acetylcysteine or sulfur amino acids, whether it’s just straight NAC or I have a product called detox amino that has calcium digluconate in there, which is great for beta glucuronidation mold detoxification too, and has a lot of all the other glutathione and NAC and methionine and cysteine and taurine, all those good things. So it just depends out of the gates, maybe we’re just focusing on food, supplemental freeform amino acids, collagen, and really working on digestion.

Evan Brand: Yep. And if you’ve got a kid too, and you’re trying to work stuff into their system, and maybe a little harder Epsom salt bath could go a really long way. And then life is almost Bluetooth ion in a liquid form. So there are some really good like syrups and some things that you and I use clinically, which can be helpful. So it’s not mandatory that you go to the Bluetooth ion level. But that is a really good way to help a lot of different mechanisms because you’re going to be mobilizing and pushing toxins out and protecting them too. It’s a really powerful antioxidant. So we really like gluta fine for kids. And typically we’re going to go like a quarter of an adult dose depending on the weight of the kid. So if it’s a young kid we’re working with, you know, if a normal dose is a teaspoon, we may come in quarter teaspoon instead, or maybe we go half a teaspoon. And then also you mentioned magnesium, so we could do magnesium oil. You could do magnesium lotion, you could do magnesium drinks. If you could get your kid to drink some magnesium. There’s some good options there too. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, magnesium is very helpful for brain inflammation. Right. Russell Blaylock, retired neurosurgeons talked about the fact that when he would give his patients magnesium post brain surgery, they healed exponentially faster compared to people, patients he didn’t give it to. So we know magnesium, very, very powerful brain inflammation. Obviously, if you have gut issues, doing Epsom salt bath absorbs it trans dermally, right. flotator flotation tanks, same thing, very helpful. And again, if you’re a mom or dad, and you’re listening to this, and you’re just trying to get your kids eat blueberries away from the crackers that do that first, right, do that first. I mean, he does a lot of studies on eating blueberries and some of these low sugar fruits and being incredibly anti inflammatory to the brain. Go there first. If you’re having a reaction, then we step it up into gear. So my son was born, I think it was it was last year, he was six months old. And he was having a lot of eczema issues. And we had to really work on going AIP and lo salicylates to get the eczema down. Now, once we worked on gut and digestion and good bacteria balance, we were able to add these foods back in, and it wasn’t as big of a deal. And when you’re younger, at that age, there’s some immune issues that tend to happen in that first year life until we were able to get through that point. And it was excellent. And it really never came back unless we eat certain foods that we know are not on his plan. But out of the gates, we had to be more restrictive with salicylates, and then we were able to pull back on that down the road.

Evan Brand: Well, the guts more leaky as a young baby like that anyway, right. So I think it’s somewhat normal to have to be a little bit more restricted with young kids because their guts are forming so they can really absorb all the breast milk. So I think you did a good job. And I think this is important to remind people that all these different tweaks, these are really just tools, but really, you got to get to the big thing here, which is a mast cell problem, generally a mast cell activation that’s causing you to be so darn sensitive, whether it’s chemical sensitivity you deal with, which could also be common. So if you have if you notice, you’re having salicylate oxalate problems, histamine problems, you could have maybe chemical sensitivity or other reactions as well. And you got to get to the root of it. For me, the root of it was tick bites and mold. And I’m slowly chipping away at those things. So I think you just got to keep dig digging deeper. Don’t just stop at the die and get the diet dialed in enough to have you stable. And then once you’re stable, you’re going to investigate these other things. Don’t just do diet and think that’s the end of the road for me. I’ll just never eat blueberries again. That’s not a way to live. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: No. And again, those foods are relatively healthy and they’re very nutrient dense. There’s a lot of good phytonutrients in there. So if we can have it in and plus, you know, I’d much rather have my kids eat blueberries and crackers or any other sweets, that’s always better. So, yeah, so we got to, you know, we got to make sure we’re seeing the forest to the trees. You So we have a big picture where right we’re focused on what our what our goal is now but then what’s the big picture in the long run?

Yeah, so just to wrap up last, last thing on the testing front, we’re going to look at an organic acids on your we’re going to look at Candida, we’re going to measure oxalates. We’re going to look at bacterial overgrowth, we’re going to look at stool for any type of infections gut inflammation. We’re going to look at any type of pancreatic enzyme deficiencies we’re going to look at fat digestion problems, so just was stolen urine To be honest, I think you could get a ton of information.

100% man, why anyone listening and you guys enjoy the content. Please feel free and share it with family and friends. Give us a share on your social we really appreciate it. Put your comments below let us know what you’ve done that’s been helpful for you in the past. Also, if you want to reach out and get support from Evan and I we are available worldwide love to be able to help you. We’ll put links down below EvanBrand.com. Reach out to Evan. JustInHealth.com and reach out to Dr. J myself. We are here to help you ready to serve. You guys have a phenomenal weekend and we’ll be in touch. Take care now. 

Evan Brand: Take care. Bye


References:

https://justinhealth.com/

https://www.evanbrand.com/

Audio Podcast:

https://justinhealth.libsyn.com/are-you-sensitive-to-antinutrients-salicylates-and-oxalates-in-plant-food-podcast-336

Recommended products:

Detox Aminos

Antioxidant Supreme

Magnesium Supreme

TruKeto Collagen

Trucollagen (Grassfead)

Thyroid Reset Summit | Podcast #218

Thyroid Reset Summit is here! It is Dr. J’s compilation of expert interviews and advances talks on the topic of thyroid health. Don’t wait, don’t suffer, support your thyroid now!

In today’s podcast, Dr. Justin Marchegiani and Evan Brand engage in talk that covers the compelling topics around areas of thyroid health like autoimmune thyroid, gut infections, trauma and stress and how that affects thyroid and hormones. Listen as they discuss live interactive podcast with viewers and gain insights about the issues involved in thyroid and ways that go to the root cause to address them. Stay tuned for more!

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

In this episode, we cover:

03:00    Trauma

06:41    Reverse T-3

14:19    Maca and Hypothyroidism

19:55    Molecular Mimicry

26:28    Iodine and Iodide

28:03    Low Dose Naltrexone (LDN) and Hashimoto’s

30:38    Desiccated Thyroid

32:01    Natural Thyroid Glandular

37:37    Nascent Iodine

40:38    Oxalates and Hashimoto’s

44:09    Thyroid Replete or Balance

46:50    Candida Overgrowth and Kale Intolerance

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Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey guys, it’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani here. Guess what’s up, the Thyroid Reset Summit is live today. So, make sure you click below, there’ll be links where you can access the summit, make sure you register. I’m giving up my full, free 88-page eBook, it’s the first 3 chapters in my 12-chapter book, it’s gonna be amazing. I’m here with Evan Brand as well. Evan’s a- was a phenomenal interviews as well. So, make sure you subscribe to go access Evan’s interview. There’s gonna be links below where you guys can access it all, I appreciate it. Evan, welcome today’s chat, I’m excited that thyroid summit is here.

Evan Brand: Yeah, I’m excited too. Your talk is today. So, if people wanna hear me interviewing you, that’s a day 1 of the summit. So, your pretty face is on there, and you great- you gave a stellar interview, and there’s already tons of good comments, we were just reviewing that together, there’s tons of good comments and feedback coming in already on the summit and we’re still in like, you know, day 1. So, this is like the open house so to speak, of the summit. If people, you know, have been living under a rock, or they just don’t know how summits work. Basically, what it is, is Justin put together 30+ expert interviews. These are anywhere between 30 and 45 minutes in length, and they’re all on the topic of thyroid health. So we- he’s gonna get in to anything from autoimmune thyroid to gut infections and thyroid, to mitochondria and thyroid, to chemical toxins to trauma, and stress and how that affects thyroid and hormones. So, each different expert has their own unique view, and he make sure to extract as much information as he can, it’s all free. You just register free. So, thyroidresetsummit.com, you go there, you register free, put your name, your email in, you can access it as long as you get on your computer or your phone, on the day of the talk, you can access about 5 talks for free every day for a week. And then after a week, depending on what your all’s feedback is, they’ll probably do an on-core, you get one last chance to view him for free, and then, what I recommend you do, is you buy the summit, it supports Justin, it supports the mission, it gets his information out to the masses because your average doctor is not having the type of conversations that Justin is having on this summit. These are conversations that are very advanced. And something that’s still broken down, simply free to understand, but in terms of timeline here, it could be another 10 years before mainstream doctors are even addressing the stuff that’s being discussed now. So, don’t wait, don’t suffer. Buy the talks, it ends up being like 50 bucks or something. That’s ridiculous how cheap it is, and you could own all 30 talks, you’ll get transcripts, etc. Is Justin paying me to promote this thing? No, he’s not, it’s just freaking awesome and I’ve already read the book. And, the book is amazing, and the summit is amazing. So, please buy it and support him so he can keep buying grass-fed stakes so- he’d to stay healthy so that he can do a podcast with me.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I appreciate that Evan, thanks so much. So, I just, you know, being a thyroid expert and also being a part of the summit yourself, what are some of the topics that you feel like were most compelling for you in and around the area of thyroid? I have a couple in my mind but, what reason they would give the most?

Evan Brand: Oh, man. Well, I would say the ones on trauma. Uh, you’ve got ___[03:03] on there, which is just incredible, because, I think trauma is something that, well, we already know this, uh- a- as Americans, we repress our emotions, we repress our traumas, we try to just move on, we ignore traumas, we throw ’em under the carpet and we just don’t wanna talk about this stuff, but what you and Nicky discussed was amazing which is the fact that, depending on how your childhood uh, was. You talked about the ACE score, the Adverse-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: -Childhood Experiences score-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Evan Brand: -and how- what you all are seeing. And I’m seeing the same thing too, is that, the higher the ACE score, the more likely it is that you’re gonna have a problem, and it could be a thyroid, and/or an autoimmune thyroid problem, all linked back to something 20 years ago. And so, you all had a great discussion about, well, how do you start working on these things that happen to you? It’s not to say, “Hey, we need to go back to counseling, and, you know, go take the guy into counseling with you, who beat you up 20 years ago, it’s not that, it’s no, there’s ways you can clear these traumas from your body, and a lot of it is free. So, I think that’s probably the most powerful starting place.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and also a lot of these traumas too, they affect the HPA access. And, some people that they may have addressed the issue but, they’re kinda dealing with the collateral damage, whether it’s adrenal issues or gut issues, and- and/or compromising the immune system, maybe even infections just from all that stress, or maybe even they developed an ___[04:23] disorder which is created all kinds of adrenal and blood sugar and nutrient deficiencies. So, we gotta look at everything from the root cause. Okay, is the root cause addressed, okay good, and now, we gotta also do damage control as well. But, while fixing everything in a ___[04:37] root cause kind of, manner using nutrients and- and sport.

Evan Brand: Yeah, now, I will say, if you just focus on traumas and nothing else, and let’s say you start doing the EFT, the Emotional Freedom Technique which is the tapping that you and I both love. I love tapping. I’m gonna start tapping-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: I’m [crosstalk]… uh, so, when you start tapping, this is basically like acupuncture without the needles, so you’re helping to basically recalibrate your nervous system, so you’re not stuck in fight or flight. And I’ll do this, like if  I going stage or if I’m gonna go on an airplane, I’ll just tap, tap, tap, tap it out, and I just feel really good from it. And, there’s practitioners, this is such a powerful tool. There are practitioners that’s all they do, is tapping. Now, you and I, we both agree that tapping by itself is probably gonna be pretty limited, it’s not gonna be fixing root causes, but can they help reset the nervous system, which could therefore improve your thyroid health and potentially lower your thyroid antibodies? I would say, absolutely.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I mean, if you have significant unresolved traumas, especially in the area of sexual abuse, or just issues growing up. Uhm, even disorder stuff, control issues or any kind of abuse. I think it’s really important especially if- if I’m talking with a patient and, “Have you really fully adro- uh, you know, resolve that?”, “Can you go back and think about it, and talk about it, this is not really bring your emotion up let’s say, pass a 3 out of 10”. And if they can’t answer that, or you start to hear them sob on the phone, or on- on the video, and that tells me we gotta work on that. So, it really just depends on how much they’ve done to resolve and to move past that. Uhm, but, if- if they haven’t done- I have people that I refer out to, they had- they really dive in with that work for sure.

Evan Brand: Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: [Crosstalk]…that activates the sympathetic fight or flight kind of nervous system response and, if that keeps going, that can just be a drain on your adrenals. And we know how important a cortisol is to inflammation, and if we have thyroid issues and autoimmune thyroid, and we don’t have enough healthy levels of cortisol to- to deal with that stress, or if our cortisol levels had been depleted, uhm, the HPA access dysregulation that- that brain talking to the adrenals, that feedback loop is disrupted, that can definitely creates some major challenges for sure.

Evan Brand: Yeah. So, we should talk about reversed T-3. We actually had a question here from the Doc J.C., uh said, “Please go over the significance of reversed T-3. What range do you feel as optimal? It seems to be frequently ignored or not seems to be so significant. Thanks, looking forward to the summit”.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I hundred percent agree. Now, think of reversed T-3 as like metabolic blades for our metabolic uh, magazine, or gun- gun cartridge so to speak, right? We put all the bullets in it, uhm, the metabolic blades, they take up space where an actual metabolic bullet would be, we fire the gun, we get the noise but we have no bullet coming out. Basically, these reversed T-3 compounds, they’re blocking the receptor sites; every single cell in the body has receptor sites for thyroid hormone. So, when we had excess, reversed T-3, it’s gonna clog up that receptor site for T-3, and it’s gonna decrease the ability for that T-3 to fill up the receptor sites. Also, you had T-4. Let’s say you have 80%- let’s say you have a higher percent of T-4 convert to reversed T-3 over T-3, it’s also robbing the ability for that T-3 to- to be fully expressed. So, imagine we have, let’s just say, let’s just say we have 10 units of T-4, alright? Just hypothetical numbers here. And let’s say we’ll typically converting 80% to T- to T-3, and 20% to reversed T-3, there’s naturally gonna be some reversed T-3 levels. Let’s say, anywhere between the low 10’s to the upper 10’s, right? Then you know that’s a good level, alright? That’s the actual lab reference range. In my analogy, let’s say we have 20% goin’ reversed T-3, 80% go into T-3, our actual metabolic active thyroid hormone. Well, typically, when stress starts to happen, low calorie diets, more stress, adrenal issues, inadequate levels of selenium, we may start to see a 70-30, a 60-40 split, where more of that building block is going to reversed T-3, less going to actual T-3. So, we’re having less T-3 but we’re also having the congestion of the receptor sites. So, that T-3 that’s now there, the lesser T-3 it’s there, it’s not able to dock in to that receptor site, the locking key methods not able to go in because someone put gum in the keyholes, so to speak.

Evan Brand: Yeah, great analogy. So, let’s take it a step further. So, what happens then? ‘Cause you and I , we’ve tracked my blood for several years, little that I know, I was living with mold, and that mold was messing up my thyroid, that was part of the problem, I had elevated reverse T-3, and you and I been looked at and we’ve been like, “Okay, let’s look at gut”, “Okay, stool test is clean, let’s look at adrenals, okay, adrenals look decent. Well, where the heck was this reversed T-3 be coming from?”. I’ve- in my opinion, I believe it was all the stress that my immune system was dealing with because I had elevated white blood cell count, at the same time as I had elevated reverse T-3. So, it’s not that it changed my game plan of my protocol at all, it was really just an indicator of “Okay, so here’s why I probably have cold hands, cold feet, my body temperature was running like a 97.7. Unless you tell me I’m wrong, I think that was all related to that reversed T-3 being so high. I was in the 30’s.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup. Yup, it could’ve been. And we also know, you know, if you have a- a liver stress, right? Livers’ really important because it make enzymes that are gonna help activate thyroid hormone, and it also helps to clear reverse T-3. So, make sense over stress, glutathione form toxins in the environment that can affect our ability to clear it as well.

Evan Brand: Yeah, I think I was like 35, uh, on my [crosstalk]

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And again, how- you know, we can see low calorie diets, increased reverse T-3, that’s why- that’s why in the long run, cutting calories to lose weight doesn’t work ’cause it just slows down your thyroid. So, then when you come back to reality and you actually are eating a normal amount of food, now, your metabolism slower, so now you end up storing more fat on the buckets.

Evan Brand: You wanna know something crazy related to hormones and-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: -gaining weight and all that? So, something that I learned the past few weeks, is that mycotoxins can actually bind to your leptin receptor. And this is why some people have gained weight on like 800 to a thousand calories is ’cause the mycotoxins are preventing leptin signaling from working properly.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I know. I had a conversation with Dave Asprey a couple of years ago. There’s a compound called the Zearalenone. It’s- it’s a mold kind of herpes that actually put into the ears of these cows. And the Zearalenone literally causes the cows to convert more of their calories to fat.

Evan Brand: Oh my gosh.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s what it does. So, they would use some of these connection-

Evan Brand: And that’s a mycotoxin?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s a mycotoxin, they put it in their- in the cow’s ear, be the- like a little pellet-

Evan Brand: Oh.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -and they re-absorb it through the ear canal. And this is, you know, first hand from Dave Asprey. And it will cause more fat gain, so it would allow them to convert more calories to fat which, you know, bottom line, more weight on scale, so, more- uh, more cost per cow, so to speak, ’cause it’s all weight-driven. So, yeah, mold and mycotoxins are- are a big one, alright? And we’ll do another podcast on that-

Evan Brand: I did another interview- if I did another interview on your summit, my whole talk would be about thyroid and mold because I’ve had tons of hypothyroid symptoms. Now, I still have 6 pack abs, I’m still ripped, uh but I had like cold body temperature, cold hands, cold feet and all that related to mold. So, if I did an “Evan on Justin’s Summit Part 2” it would be all about mold and how I think so many people with thyroid problems probably have mold in their house that’s helping to destroy their immune system and cranking up reversed T-3, elevating liver enzymes, reducing detoxification, and the body’s got to try to focus on mold, and then they can’t focus on other stuffs-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: -so then chemical toxins get built up, it seems like a huge like lynchpin.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I- and the only thing I would add is do all the- the natural- do all the things first and leave that to the end-

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -because, you did it that way too. And then we saw there was an issue and then we dealt with it on the back end, uhm, my biggest concern is mold and things like that can be- can be more in the expensive side, and it can be a rat hole for some people, meaning, if they do the foundational things first, they may get some significant relief upfront, and it won’t be as cost- it won’t be as costly as dealing with the- the mold in the back end. But, some people-

Evan Brand: It won’t be as overwhelming.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And the only exception being, hey there’s active leak, you got water stains on your ceiling, uhm, you know, there’s- there’s an act- you can actually actively visualize mold or water leaking, then I would say that it has to be dealt with right away. [crosstalk].

Evan Brand: I’ve- I’ve probably stayed afloat a lot longer than I did before I developed a lot of major symptoms because I had all the foundations in order-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Evan Brand: And so that’s- that’s why the summit is gonna be key- it’s not to- it’s not designed to replace a consultation with Justin if you have thyroid problems, you still need to consult with Justin, for sure, but this is more designed for you to get the information you need for you to get the questions answered that you have in your head. And once you have all those questions answered, you’re gonna learn more about types of thyroid lab testing that you need to run reversed T-3 being one of those markers. These are things you can bring up to your endocrinologist or your GP and tell them, “Hey, I heard on this summit, this guy Dr. Justin talked about “XYZ”, can you do that for me?”. And we’ve had clients report back to us and say, “Hey…”, you know, “…thanks to you, or thanks to your podcast, I was able to get this and this, and this run on my blood work, and my doctor only ran it because I asked them to”. So if you just go with the status quo, you’re probably not gonna get the result you’re looking for from the mainstream. Now, if you find a really good endocrinologist or a doc that’s gonna listen and run these extra important thyroid markers that are not generally run, you may be able to make them work, or you gotta go to the functional side. My opinion, I’m gonna say go to the functional side, ’cause your endocrinologist is never gonna look at the stuff Justin’s looking at and saying, “Hey, you know, these bacterial infections do this; this parasite does this”, it’s the last thing you’re gonna hear from them. They’re gonna say, “Oh, you can go to an infectious disease doctor, you think you have parasites?” And then they’ll just refer you out and you’ll go nowhere. That’s why we’re kinda generalist and specialist on the same token.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly, that’s really good point. Let’s kinda dive in to the next question here, let me pull it up. Uhm… let’s talk about Maca. Maca and hypothyroidism. So, number 1, if we see- Maca’s gonna be really good especially for women. Uhm, there are some good Maca forms for men too but it’s gonna really help modulate estrogen levels that can even help with progesterone levels. So, why is this helpful? If we have estrogen dominance, that can definitely increase thyroid binding globulin and decrease the amount of free thyroid hormone. So, it can definitely lower our free thyroid hormones. So, if we modulate our female hormones and improve that balance in that estrogen and progesterone ratio that can definitely improve the amount of biologically active thyroid hormone. Also, for in a, estrogen dominant state, we need good levels of progesterone. And progesterone help stimulate thyroid peroxidase and make thyroid hormones. So, good enzyme activity from TPO is important, and that can help make thyroid hormone. So, good levels of progesterone help with that as well.

Evan Brand: Can you talk a little bit about age? I mean, this is something that you ask your average women, aged 15 above, they’re gonna say, “Oh, my thyroid”, or “Oh, my hormones”. Can you talk about kind of what happens when you’re transitioning from a normal cycling female to you go into perimenopause- menopause ___[15:33] when you go to those stages. And ___[15:36] to say, “Oh, oh it’s my hormones”.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Yeah. So, in general, typically, women may start their perimenopausal phase in their early 40’s. This is where like a lot of these menopausal symptoms start to happen. Whether it’s skipping a cycle, mild hot flashes, mild hair loss, mood issues. And again, it’s- it’s- it can be- it’s hard to distinguish perimenopause and just PMS and cy- and cyclical hormone imbalances. Especially where I see a lot of these symptoms happening with women in their 20 and 30’s, it’s hard to distinguish, but you’re typically seeing some of these menopausal symptoms, they may happen throughout the month, where the premenstrual symptom that are just tend- tending to happen a week, maybe a couple days, sometimes 2 weeks before period. So, you- you gotta look at it and distinguish. Typically, what’s happening is you’re having a decreased ovarian reserve and then the estrogen and the progesterone are starting to drop. And sometimes you see estrogen drop a little bit slower than progesterone, so then you still have low hormones, yet still have estrogen dominance. And again, perimenopause is done once you’ve had cycle for one year. So you have that kind of in between phase and lower adrenal functions in a predisposed at because your adrenals are making a lot of precursor hormone that’s gonna provide building blocks for your sex hormones. So, lower adrenal function, cortisol stress, HPA access stress, that communication from the brain to the adrenals, when that’s dysregulated, you’re draining that backup ge- battery generator to help make more of the hormones. So, when that follicle starts to drop, then the adrenals gonna help pick up the slack.

Evan Brand: So, would you say all women post-menopausal should be on some type of adaptogenic herb hormone support, and can that replace or remove the need for like bioidenticals?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It depends how strong their hormones are, uh, it depends how strong their adrenal glands are already.

Evan Brand: Okay.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Number 1. And number 2, it depends on how severe their symptoms are.

Evan Brand: Okay.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, we’ll use specific phenotypes of Maca for perimenopausal women or menopausal women, that can help, some do need adrenal support obviously than some may need some of the bioidentical progesterone, estrogen support, it just depends on their severity of symptoms, how long it’s been going on for, and how their hormones look, adrenal wise, female wise and thyroid. And this is where it stop because hair loss, it’s a thyroid symptom but also lower female hormones can cause it too. So, so can like cool their temperature when waking, that could be a thyroid issue, it could be a female hormone issue. This is why testing is so important. It really allows you to like, walk into the situation clinically, feeling like you’re on top of what’s going on.

Evan Brand: Yup, well said. And- and, I wonder, does that change much? If a woman’s had like a partial or a full hysterectomy, or maybe she’s got her ovaries gone, the uterus is gone, is that like, hey, there’s no way adaptogenic adrenal support’s gonna help you?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, soon as they go- as soon as they have a uhm- a full hysterectomy where the ovaries are gone, they’re menopausal right away, right? So, they’re automatically in menopause. If it’s a partial hysterectomy where the uterus is gone, typically that’s happening from maybe a fibroid, maybe some endometriosis. Uh, a lot of times it’s done in- in haste because there’s excessive bleeding or he- hemorrhagia, and the doctor’s like, let’s just pull it out which is crazy like, let’s fix the hormones, let’s fix the underlying issue, a lot of times you can keep your uterus. Now, there’s some literature, you know, if you look at some of the endocrinology techs, there’s some people saying that, “Hey…”, you know, “…your uterus maybe producing some level of hormone. So, it’s possible that you keep your ovaries, you get your uterus removed, but you- there’s still maybe some hormone stuff that happens, right?

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s kinda like with guys and they get a vasectomy, there are some research showing it, you can still have a drop-in testosterone after vasectomy. What happened? You didn’t touch the testicles, right? But when you mess around with that anatomy there’s probably some feedback loops that are disrupted, there’s probably some hormonal secretion that’s happening from that tissue that were not quite, you know, fully aware of. So, that’s why when in doubt, always try to keep the tissue in place-

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -if you can.

Evan Brand: It’s crazy. I mean, for to think, oh, it has no purpose when you’re aged 60 just ’cause you’re not menstruating, those organs have no purpose. That’s- that’s bizarre. Yeah, I mean, if you have no purpose anymore, it would come out just like a placenta comes out after a woman delivers a baby. That organ is there, and then that organ is not needed anymore, and the mom pushes the placenta out and then you’re done. You don’t push out the uterus. So, it- it needs to be there.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. It definitely needs to be there for sure. So, uhm, on that road, I think we answered that question.

Evan Brand: I’ve got another question for you.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: Okay. So, we got one here, “Can you discuss molecular mimicry?”.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, so, diff- i- in general, we have surface proteins on foods, especially gluten and casein, and these surface proteins, they get tagged by our immune system. And there are other surface proteins on tissue in the body like the thyroid that can look similar. So, imagine you have someone who just did a- a crime, and they’re driving a black Honda Civic. Well, Honda Civics are pretty popular car. Please come on the AP- you know, on the radio, APB, you know, be careful and just person, and the authorities driving a black Honda Civic. They’re driving the Honda Civic, you get pulled over. Why? Because you have a similar identification that was called on the APB there. So, what does that mean? Its surface proteins can be similar, and so of course, when that APB is called up by your immune system, A.K.A, the immune system makes antibodies to target these surface protein, and other tissues have a similar surface protein like the thyroid, then that can, uh, your immune system can attack it. And that’s why you’re see- that’s why gluten is such a big deal. Also, gluten also opens the gut lining. And when the gut lining’s more open and we have gut permeability or leaky gut kind of the slang, there’s more chance of your immune system to get in contact with undigested foods and create more antibodies for more stuff. So, leaky gut’s a big thing and, there’s a lot of data saying, “Hey, even if you’re not reacting to the gluten, gluten may still be opening up that gut lining, creating more gut permeability”.

Evan Brand: Well, here’s one other thing to take it even further on the anti-gluten train, which is the fact that people say, “Oh, I’m not sensitive to gluten, I don’t have any rashes, I don’t have any headaches, I don’t notice joint pain after gluten. It doesn’t matter, we’ve seen, and many, many, many pieces of literature, just google “Non celiac gluten sensitivity” and you could read about it for yourself. Even if a person that says, “I noticed…” quote, “nothing”, from eating gluten. We still notice that the secretory IgA gets lower, that gut barrier gets broken open, you get leaky gut. There’s no like, “I’m a tuff guy, I grew up in Wisconsin, grew in corn and I eat corn and gluten and I love it”, no, it doesn’t matter. You’re gonna have a leaky gut no matter if you noticed anything or not and, why is that important for thyroid health, wll, ’cause once a gut’s leaky, now, let’s say you get bacteria and parasites and toxins from the food supply, you breath in some guy’s diesel truck in front of you on the highway, those toxins have direct access to the bloodstream. And we know that when the gut is leaky, the blood brain barrier is also gonna be leaky, and then you’re getting toxins into the brain. So, you go and need some tuna fish on your night out and sushi, and that mercury can go into your brain now because your gut was leaky and they had access. So, you know, I kinda have like a zero tolerance, you know, policy. I like how, uh Rodney Ford, he was a gastro doc I had on a podcast-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: -like, 7 years ago or some crazy, as if one of the first steps which I did. He said, I don’t like to term gluten-free, he said I like to term gluten-zero, because gluten-free sounds- you- you know, just like it’s toys or like, it’s- it’s a rec- it’s a recommendation. But he said, the idea of gluten-zero, is much more direct and blunt. It’s like, “no”, you don’t want any. Because even we’ve seen we- you and I, we test the antibodies, we look at anti gliadin IgA on the stool test, and what we see is that, even up to 3 months, 4 months after somebody’s had gluten, you know, here we are in early March, at the time of this recording, someone could had a bunch of cookies at Christmas and we could still see 3 months later, the antibodies elevated because of that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, so, I mean, I’m pretty puritanical when it comes to gluten. I will- I met- I do have a cinnamon bun last night but it was gluten free, and I typically never cheat, I ended up getting within 30 minutes after the sore throat, and it’s lingering right now. I’m doing some-

Evan Brand: No way.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -essential oil lozenges to help- help [crosstalk].

Evan Brand: Rice flour, what was it that did that to you?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It was rice flo- it was rice flour, and it could have been just the carbs, it was pretty carb-heavy. But, you know, it just makes me think like, there’s one more sin in the fridge, am I gonna have it tonight? Hell no, you know?

Evan Brand: [Laughs]

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’ll- for my cheat, I’ll do my ___[23:49] chips and some fresh homemade guacamole instead for my little kraut treat. But yeah, e- even that, I still had the decision, you know, should I stop at dunkin doughnuts and get like the awesome cinnamon bun that I have memories of 20 years ago, when I used to eat lots good food but, now, I at least chose the healthier option, but still, I kind recalibrate and say it still not worth it. So, try to find the healthier option if you want a spurge. If you’re autoimmune condition’s under control and you don’t have an autoimmune condition, maybe you spurge every now and then on the holidays. My recommendation though is, you find a healthier option, and if you have thyroid antibodies, you definitely need to. I have thyroid antibodies, so you really gotta make sure that you’re on the right track. There’s a lot of healthy options these days. It’s crazy, I mean, I had some- some I think it was uh, Danielle Walkers got a new pizza that’s like, a yuca based pizza, and it’s freakin’ awesome. It’s really good, and the crust is great. It’s a little carb heavy, so I save it for my carb night, but uhm, it’s a great pizza.

Evan Brand: Wow, she makes it?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, it’s in the whole food section now, it’s frozen. But it’s a yuca based crust.

Evan Brand: And is it already, uh, it’s just a crust and you gotta put all your own toppings? Or-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: No, it’s got everything on it already. But she’s got some I think where you can buy without the toppings. But I just love yuca for crust ’cause yucas just like- it’s a soft, it’s really uhm, moist too.

Evan Brand: I’ll have to look for it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: I- I wanna point out what you said. I think it’s very important which is that, you may go off your diet for a bit and play with this food and play with that food is kind of a treat, but like you said, it’s not worth it. And, you know, people think when we come up with a diet protocol for ’em, then it’s like a diet of depravation. But overall, I would say you and I are not deprived at all. We’re eating good fats, good meats, good veggies, I mean, this is not a deprivation or starvation diet required.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: No, I mean, last night for dinner, I had a dry aged Kansas City strip steak, step 4 from wholefoods. And, I had it last night with some green beans and grass-fed butter and some sea salt, and it was phenomenal. So, I should have eat really good like that, like, keep it simple, you know. The night before that, we threw some stuff in the instapot, 40 minutes later, some vegetable. I think we had some celeries, some uhm, carrot, and some chicken, it was great. I mean, keep it really simple, easy.

Evan Brand: I did some haddick last night-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm-hmm.

Evan Brand: I had couple different fish, I had some haddick and some cod, and then we did some sweet potato fries that we baked, and then we did some broccoli. My wife is all into fresh broccoli now, because we were doing frozen broccoli, but it’s a game changer to do fresh. So, uh, hopefully when I get my garden, we’ve got snow on the ground, hopefully I can get my garden going and get some fresh broccoli. Last year, even despite my really good fencing operation around my- around my race guard bed, those darn rabbits, it ate on my broccoli, so I didn’t get any, I had to buy it all to store [chuckles], or the farmer’s market.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh, hundred percent man, that’s really cool. Uhm, very cool. Let’s talk about- someone asked about “Iodine and iodide”. So, basically, iodide is the ion form of Iodine. So, you have basically uh, the chemical structure of iodine is- is 2 molecules of iodine, and so essentially, iodine is one. So, typically, iodine’s bonded to a salt whether it’s a sodium salts or a potassium salts, and then in your body, your body converts it and- and puts it together and makes iodine out of it. So, you can have one molecule’s iodide, 2 is iodine, you take it and the it converts it in the body and it goes to through iodination and it- it can makes it iodine.

Evan Brand: How do you approach that with clients in terms of supplementing?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I typically use a potassium iodide.

Evan Brand: Yup. How often do you supplement it, is that something where it’s like, yup, a little amount is always gonna be okay ’cause there was a whole, you know fear mongering about “Oh, you know, supplementing iodine could- or iodine can uh… increase your thyroid antibodies”, but I’ve not found that to be true, let alone know.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, I mean, it’s potential, but, if someone has active thyroid autoimmune stuff, we just don’t go more than the RDA which is between 150 to 250 micrograms.

Evan Brand: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And if we see they’re stable, and/or they don’t have any that we may play around with going up to a gram or maybe a 1.3 gra- uh- sorry, 1.3 mg, 1.5 mg, alright? RDA’s a 150 to 250 micrograms. So, typically, within 5 or 10 x of the RDA.

Evan Brand: Okay.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It can. It- there’s a lot of data in the literature on that. So, uhm, I can just tell you, I see people go too high in iodine and lose their hair.

Evan Brand: Oooh.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, you gotta be careful.

Evan Brand: Wow. I’ve got another question for you if you’re ready.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm-hmm.

Evan Brand: Uh, a little one here rom Doc Jacey-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: “What is your take on using LDN for hashimoto patients? I do see the antibodies dropping and symptoms improved. Curious, if you’ve seen the same”.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. So, first off, it’s not the first place I go, the low-hanging fruit’s gonna be, uhm, obviously uh, autoimmune template to start getting good nutrients onboard, getting enough selenium onboard, CoQ10, magnesium, these are really important. Then after that, I would go to like curcumin, uhm, curcumin, things like that fur, you know, fur. So, it’d be the first things I would get in there first. You could even play around with resveratrol, uhm, I would do that first, and then maybe even CBD. I would try to do CBD over LDN, but I had seen some people do okay in LDN. I’ve seen some people do worse on LDN. So, I try to go to the more natural compounds first before I go to uh, an ___[28:54] blocking drug.

Evan Brand: Agreed. And I can’t prescribe it. So, even if I could, I wouldn’t because I’m, you know, my toolbox is limited to using natural professional grade products and nutrients and herbs, so I just don’t even have it on the table for me, so I just have to assume that I gotta fix the issue with other things. And you and I’ve seen hundreds of times that, when we just fix the gut, we’ve seen antibodies drop from it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: 2000, 3000 to sub-500-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: Just [crosstalk]… the gut and changing nothing else.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I mean, the gut’s obviously the next big component. But supplement wise, curcumin, resveratrol, selenium, CoQ10, magnesium, a- autoimmune template, and then of course working on the digestion, working through all the 6 hours. Enzymes [crosstalk]… bad foods, replacing digestive support, hormones, moving infections, re-inoculating, repopulating probiotics and then retest it.

Evan Brand: We’ve got a couple other questions here. What’s your- what’s your schedule look like? How much time you got left?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I got enough time, I got 10 minutes here.

Evan Brand: Perfect. I’ll just uh, give people another plug. If you haven’t register to Justin’s summit, please do. thyroidresetsummit.com, it’s great. If you’re like geekin’ out on this, you’re about to geek out times 30 for the next week. Every day, you’re gonna get to hear Justin in your ear for like 6 hours. So, better put some headphones on, get your nice cup of camel milk tea and sit down and have a good listen. And uh, Justin did videos too, so that’s cool. If you wanna see the interviews, as opposed to just listening, you can do both, and if you end up buying his summit, you do get transcripts. So, I know, we’re getting a little, yo know, a little tricky, a little complicated sometimes in these interviews, you may want to have the transcript available so you can refer back to that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wonderful. Hundred percent. [crosstalk]

Evan Brand: Yeah, so that’s my plug. And uh, the next question from Colin is, “Any recommendations for…”, he said, “dedicated” but he meant desiccated, and we know what you meant. So, “Any recommendations for desiccated thyroid? Have you heard of the company thyrovanz?”. And I have not.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I have not. I have not in my life. We have a product called thyrobalance that is a natural glands. We’re support- I use with my patients, that I’d formulated, I’ve- I love that, it’s for credit, I use it on thousands of patients. And uh, on the prescription side, I do like WP thyroid, it’s a very clean formula. Uh, NP thyroid is another newer one out that’s very similar to iron, it- it does have a little bit of maltodextrin from corn in there, so you gotta be a little careful. The other good ones gonna be Nature Throid. Supposedly Nature Throid has a couple more ingredients than WP. Some people, if you check out my summit interview with Guillermo Ruiz, we talked all about that but, he said, there just not have extra ingredients and the same formula but, if you look on the back, there is lactose Nature Throid, there’s no lactose in WP. So, WP is the cleanest but, he seems to think they are both uh, equivalent. So, Nature Throid, and/or WP will be kinda number 1 and 2, WP first, Nature Throid second if you’re gonna go the prescription road.

Evan Brand: Supposedly Acella, A-C-E-L-L-A, it’s supposed to be- [crosstalk].

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That too makes NP- That- that too makes NP.

Evan Brand: Oh, okay.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’m pretty sure, that too makes NP thyroid.

Evan Brand: Okay. Excellent. Alright. Uh, here’s another one-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And then just to be- to be hundred percent clear on the question though, is with a natural thyroid glandular, you’re getting T-4, which is typically all you get in a centroid  levoxyl levothyroxine support, but you’re also getting T-3, T-2, T-1, T-0, calcitonin and proto morphogenic proteins which are in there that was your natural growth factors and- and taking thyroid glandular can also help lower your antibody levels too which is great. So, if you need a great, we don’t wanna give it unless we need it.

Evan Brand: Yeah, I was gonna say how do you rate when you need it versus let’s say someone was on a prescription, you know, is it possible that they are not doing well their prescription like centroid, but they may do and feel better and be able to use a glandular instead of that with the help of their doctor getting them off of the drug.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, you know you’re gonna need it if 1 of 2 factors or both are- are there. TSH is elevated, that could be the conventional range which is 5 and a half on the east coast, 4 and a half on the west coast, or, I use the- uh- uhm- the Association of Clinical Endocrinologists standings, once there’s a- above 2 and a half, I’m careful, okay? We’re about 2 and a half, 3’s kind of my cut off, but, then I look at the free T-3 levels. I’d look at T-4, T-3, how’s that conversion happening, and is there adequate levels of T-3, at least 3.0 on a free T-3. If we see a little bit than that, we could look at symptoms and we’ll see if it’s necessary to do anything for on the fence or a close, and then adrenals are shut, we may leave it alone and go after the adrenals come back on that. ‘Caue sometimes that’s enough to fix it. If the adrenals look okay, or the thyroid’s very low, we’ll come in there with support, get the TSH under control so the brain’s not screaming at the thyroid and getting it swollen, and then we’ll also get that functional T-3 level up to an optimum range. You know, 50% of the reference range. So, typically above 3 or so. Other country is different, but you wanna be at least 50% in the reference range.

Evan Brand: With that, you’re saying, take care of everything else like adrenals and all that? You’re saying circle back to the thyroid gland- glandular is kind of a last stage effort you would approach adrenals, maybe thyroid nutrients first, before thyroid glandular?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: If we’re close- if we’re close. The only exceptional will be if the TSH is high, you know. Even if they didn’t have any symptoms but the TSH was high, let’s say above 3 to 4, then I would definitely look at putting that on a little bit sooner. If it was 3, I may hold off and just see maybe if we get the HPA access back on track, we’re good, if we’re on the 4 or up, I’m definitely gonna at least bring it down to 1 in the meantime.

Evan Brand: Okay, so, if we got a TSH of 5, we’ve got a free T-3 of 2, you’re saying, yeah, probably gonna need the glandular?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Definitely. Definitely need the glandular. Now, if we have a TSH of 3, and a T-3 of let’s say 3.2, that’s where it becomes very questionable. I’d wanna look at symptoms, and I wanna look at the thyroid, uh, the adrenals as well as the thyroid. And I probably- I’d probably say, let’s table doing anything directly with hormones on the thyroid for at least a month, and just focus on more nutrients and the adrenals and I come back and retest probably in 4 to 8 weeks and see where we’re at.

Evan Brand: Well said. We’ve seen massive swings in hormones in the right direction-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm-hmm.

Evan Brand: -just by focusing on adrenals, it blows my mind-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Evan Brand: -because I wasn’t someone that was comfortable with thyroid glandulars personally and recommending those to clients, I’d kind of stayed away from it, because I saw with doing rhodiola, and as you mentioned some of those special Maca extracts, and Ashwagandhas and Schisandra berries and helping the liver in detoxing, uh, and all of the sudden we looked and it’s like, whoa, TSH is normal. We didn’t even- we didn’t even try to focus on thyroid and it fixed itself, just with fixing the body, I love when that happens.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: A hundred percent. I love it. And we’re getting to the root cause, we’re not just gonna throw everything on- throw everyone on the same thing. We really try to individualize the approach, just [crosstalk].

Evan Brand: Uh, I’ve got a question here from Paul, “How is Calcium D-Glucarate daily for detoxification?”. We use Calcium D-Glucarate all the time.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, it’s in my the detox aminos product. It binds to estrogens, so it really helps aid in estrogen detoxification. So, if a woman has extra detox, or if we see estrogen levels with the guys as well, I mean, it’s good to help bind it and pull it out, so I think it’s great. Just wanna make sure that we’re also getting to the root cause. If it’s just part of the general detoxification program, I think it’s great. It’s gonna help with thyroid binding globulin, and help with increasing free T-3 if there’s excess estrogen.

Evan Brand: Yeah, I- I- I don’t use it in isolation, same thing as you. I do have within a liver support product-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Evan Brand: -our uh hormone support product, there’s kind of a couple things out there that we use will be blends of herbs plus Calcium D-Glucarate added in for PMS and, you know, breast tenderness and moodiness and irritability and all that stuff, we do see a Calcium D-Glucarate does move the needle.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hundred percent. Hundred percent. Next question.

Evan Brand: Uh, Laura gave us some feedback, “Thank you so very much for explaining crucial information about gluten. I have tried for years to get people to realize that gluten hurts us all”. I agree Laura, thank you for the feedback and some people have to hit rock bottom before they listen to you. So, unfortunately that’s a reality.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and again, some people, you know, they have the mindset of like, e- everything in moderation, it- it just depends. I don’t necessarily buy that, I mean, there’s probably never gonna be in the- in the- in a monitored amount of cocaine or methamphetamines that’ll ever do. But I get the fact that some people, you know, may not have that genetic predisposition. They may not have an autoimmune genetics that are active. But I just- I still think uhm- you gotta be careful if there’s an option to do something on the safer side on the gluten free, grain free side, it’s better. It’s- it’s better to do that. But I get why some people may feel like they- they get a little bit more freedom. You know, when you have a little bit more uhm, uh, health, so to speak, and a little bit less genetic predisposition, it makes sense why you do that.

Evan Brand: Yup. Got a question here, “My friend has hashimoto’s and only 20% of her thyroid. She tried nascent iodine and her face broke out with little lumps like pimples. Any idea why and what she can do to supplement iodine?”.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, if she has hashimoto’s, uhm I know that’s Dr. Group’s product, it’s a good iodine product, you just gotta be careful because you can go really high in it number 1, and that can elevate antibodies. Number 2, you could be pushing out other halides like bromine, right? And that could be causing the detoxification issue with the skin, is you’re pushing that out to the skin. [Crosstalk].

Evan Brand: Let me ask you this-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: This is- this is mind-blowing. So, that you’re saying that nascent iodine can kind of clear out that receptor site?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Potentially, but it could also activate autoimmunity if that’s there too. It could-

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -too high. So, I mean, if I were to do it, I would make sure that- if she’s my patient, we’re working for a few months, we’re stabilizing inflammation in the diet, all the other nutrients are present, ’cause with high amounts of iodine, the iodination process spits out hydrogen peroxide, H2O2, and with, inadequate selenium levels. Hydrogen peroxide’s inflammatory in the thyroid. So, with adequate selenium, we convert that H2O2, we pull off an oxygen to it and we make it H2O and make it water, something benign. So, we gotta be careful with the iodine and the lack of selenium, especially if antibodies are elevated.

Evan Brand: Yeah, well said. Selenium’s huge. That’s like, critical if you don’t address that, it’s very easy to fix that too. It’s like one of the cheapest supplements ever. Its funny people question the whole Brazil Nut thing, people say, “Oh, only a few Brazil Nuts per day is enough for selenium”. I’d look at some studies comparing that, like supplementation of actual selenium like chelated selenium versus a Brazil Nut, it actually surprisingly, the Brazil Nut actually held up, it actually did worked.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I mean, the big difference for the Brazil Nut is there’s like a uh, a 10 to 1 ratio of how much selenium could be there. So, it’s just you don’t know if you’re at- if you’re doing 2 or 3 Brazil Nuts, hoping for 20 or 40 microgram, or 200 microgram the selenium, you may get 20, you may get 30, right. That’s the problem with it. So, I think it’s okay if you wanna do 1 or 2, but I think at least get your insurance policy of 200 micrograms of selenium via supplement formula, that’s your insurance policy.

Evan Brand: Yeah, I l- I love the idea of food as medicine but I agree with you. That’s not something you wanna dabble with, like, why try to get it from Brazil Nut if you can spend $8 and get the best selenium product on the market in capsule form, and you know exactly what therapeutic dose you’re getting in terms of milligrams right there on the bowl versus, “Oh yeah! This is a big Brazil Nut! This must be 20 milligrams”, it’s like “No!”.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: E- exactly. And Brazil Nuts are commonly moldy too. So, if you have mold issues, there could be a problem there.

Evan Brand: [Crosstalk]

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You know, if you wanna 1 or 2, fine, but just get your 200 from- from supplement.

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: From selenium ___[40:20] primarily.

Evan Brand: Well, pesticides too, I’ve never seen organic Brazil Nuts on the market, I don’t want some sprayed.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I know, and then you also have the phytates and the other types of oxalate compounds in there too, for sure.

Evan Brand: I thought we had a question about oxalates. [Crosstalk]

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Someone asked about “How do oxalates affect your thyroid?”, I think, right?

Evan Brand: Yeah, here it is. “What are you guys know about high oxalates and Hashimoto’s? Is there a connection?”. Let me just say something first.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: What I’ve seen, is that high oxalates are directly can’t- uh, related to uh, high candida. We’ve seen a lot of yeast, like, when I see candida high, I always see oxalates high.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm-hmm.

Evan Brand: And then when you fix the candida, the oxalates magically go down. So, I would just throw- I would- I would kinda change that question and I would just say “What do you guys know about high oxalates, candida and Hashimoto’s?”, and I would say the answer is they’re all related.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, also, I would say that uhm, a lot of high oxalates foods are high goitrogens too. And these goitrogens can block iodine uptake. So, if you’re doing a lot of raw cruciferous vegetables, broccoli, cabbage, right? Uhm, those type of things that can easily block iodine uptake. If you’re doing a lot of it raw, that’s gonna really have some major impact. So, if you’re cooking it, you’re steaming it, you’re putting it in soups, you’re gonna have less in it for sure. But, you know, too much of that, if we have low thyroid, we gotta be careful with too much of that on the raw side ’cause that can definitely block our iodine uptake.

Evan Brand: I’m guessing you’ve seen raw vegans that have thyroid problems.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, yeah, I mean, that’s a huge thing. Also, raw vegans tend to not have enough protein to make other hormones, so they can have other problems going on too.

Evan Brand: Did you see that article that was a uh- uh- an article the other day that went kinda viral. This medical wrote, that the- the vegan diet killed my mother early? Did you read that?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: No. I think I heard of this though.

Evan Brand: Let me see if I can pull up-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Go ahead.

Evan Brand: -so I can say it, yeah. So, here it was, it was in the U.K., it was in London, this guy, Dr. Aseem, we may wanna get him on the podcast.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: He wrote a letter basically about this. And, yeah, he’s a cardiologist, his name’s Dr. Aseem, M-A-L-H-O-T-R-A. He said, my mother’s diet was full of ultra- aah, see here’s the thing I didn’t read before. Her diet was full of ultra-processed foods. So, talks about how uh, she was a vegan, her vegetarian rather, but, that she was consuming tons of, uh, biscuits, crisp and starchy carbohydrates. So, she probably had an unhealthy vegetarian diet. But the way-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: -he wrote it, made it just seem like the vegetarian diet overall, killed her but, no, she’s eating that crap, that makes sense.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, she’s on a lot of carbohydrates but, yeah, one thing that you’ll see, you know, this is good for anyone listening is, with vegans’ vegetarians, go look at their hands. ‘Cause what they’re doing is they’re getting a lot of plant-based, uhm- beta carotene, and they’re hoping that converts to Vitamin-A. With low thyroid, you’ll see a lot of the orange deposits or their hands, or their feet, ’cause they can’t convert that beta-carotene, the Vitamin-A, the active uhm, retinyl palmitate. Uh, and- and- Vitamin-A is important for the thyroid receptor sites. So, you’ll see with some of these vegan vegetarians, they’re not getting active Vitamin-A form animal products or Cod-Liver Oil, so you’ll see beta carotene deposits in their skin, orangy skin.

Evan Brand: Whoa! Well, I- you know, I always trip people out about looking at the ridges on your fingernails-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh yeah.

Evan Brand: -for [crosstalk], but now I have something else to look at, “hey, let me see your hands, I’m gonna look at your nails, now, I’m gonna look at your palms”.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I mean, it’s always good to look at it, just shouldn’t be excessively orange, but that’s a big thing. And Vitamin-A is really important for your thyroid, uhm, excellent sources of course are gonna be healthy, you know, egg yolks I think you’re gonna get it in, you’ll also see it in any type of high quality grass-fed meat, we’re gonna see it on Cod Liver Oil, and you’ll also gonna see it like liver glandular, for sure.

Evan Brand: There’s a question here which says a treatment-oriented questions so you’ll have to become a client of Justin if you wanna like dive in to supplements and protocols, but I’ll still read the question anyway incase Justin you wanna say something else.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: “With slightly low free T3, should…” uh, “…thyroid balance 1 capsule be taken every day?”, and “Dr. J., do you take your thyroid replete or balance?”.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I do not need my thyroid replete or balance. My T3 levels are above three and my TSH stays in the low-2’s or in the mid-1’s. So, I- I just don’t need it but, my Malte has enough selenium in there, and other nutrients uhm, for my thyroid to work. I- I just don’t need it based in my labs, so, I only recommend things that patients need that we can objectively quantify.

Evan Brand: Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: But in general, uhm, the levels are what again? Low [crosstalk]…

Evan Brand: …low free T3 , it was a 2.7.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, so, depending on the other symptoms that are going on there would depend on how the adrenals are doing. But that’s border line. What was the TSH?

Evan Brand: TSH, 1.3.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh, I probably would say no on that. I’d wanna look at the adrenals more thoroughly. I’d probably say no. Uh, I- I’m- I’m- for- if- if other- if TSH and T3 are- uh- TSH is good and T3 is close, I tend to say, “Let’s hold off and work more on nutrition and the adrenals”.

Evan Brand: See, here’s the problem though, we’re trying to get advice like that on YouTube or wherever else on internet, we know nothing about this guy, we don’t know how he sleeps, we don’t know he’s stressed, we don’t even know what his symptoms-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -Diet.

Evan Brand: -are, he may feel perfectly fine [crosstalk].

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, exactly.

Evan Brand: You may feel amazing, and then you’re trying to fix something that doesn’t really need to be fixed. If you feel amazing, you- you might not need do anything. So kinda, you know, don’t fix it if it’s not broken. Obviously, if we knew, “Hey I had terrible anxiety and heart palpitations and I couldn’t sleep, and I had skin rashes, and we have a more complete picture”, then Justin maybe able to say, “Well, you know, maybe your free T3 is a little low because of ‘XYZ’ and we can fix that, and here’s the data to prove what you got in the gut”.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, exactly. So, there could be other things that are causing it that- on the gut that only improve it. So, hold off, but, you wanna dive in and become a patient we can also talk a little bit deeper on that.

Evan Brand: Yup. Uhm, Missy, “Thanks for your summits, I’ve learned so much and appreciate both your time and knowledge”. Missy, it’s our pleasure.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Appreciate it. Then someone write in about potato juice curing diabetes type 2, it’s a little off-question but because uhm, diabetes is intimately connected to thyroid issues. Diabetes commonly, uh, causes low levels of thyroid conversion because high levels of insulin can disrupt thyroid conversion. That’s why blood sugar is so important in keeping inflammation down. But uh, I’d be careful, anytime juice, I get concerned with, excess sugar and insulin resistance being a problem. Uh, that being said, there’s a high amount of… potassium in potatoes, so could just be some of these extra minerals that are there. But I would say, uhm, probably stay away from the excess sugar if there’s high levels of insulin in your type 3 diabetic.

Evan Brand: Uh, there’s other question here, “Are you saying candida overgrowth in the gut can be linked to kale intolerance?”. Uhm, maybe and around about way, yes, but no, not directly. What I was saying is that, when we see on the organic acids test that we have an elevation in oxalates, generally speaking, candida is a contributing factor to why oxalates are driven up. I had high oxalates one time on my organic acid test, I did not eat hardly any leafy green vegetables for significant period of time when my gut was a mess, and I still had high oxalates, I didn’t have many other foods with oxalates in ’em, so, I saw when I fixed the yeast in my gut, and then eventually found out I had candida in my home, and had to fix the candida in my home because especially if you have dogs, dogs have candida on ’em and then they jump in your bed and they spread the candida to your bed, and then you breathe it in, and it recolonizes your gut. So, if you’re working with a practitioner, and you keep beating yourself up because you feel good and then you feel bad, you feel good, you feel bad, you could have candida, driving that oxalate problem. And if that gets to extreme levels, you can end up with kidney stones and all sorts of problem. So, you know, fix your gut, but fix your home too, that’s gonna be like my new motto.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I mean, the more people, let’s just say have inflammation, dysregulations in guts- and gut issues, that can create more oxalate sensitivity. Uhm, again, things like potassium and magnesium are really important for oxalate cleaner. It’s now- kale is actually kind of a lower oxalate food. It’s the spinach. Spinach is the big higher ones, so you gotta be careful with spinach. But again, you know, having enough good quality magnesium and potassium in your diet or supplementally can also help clear oxalates. [Crosstalk]. Oxalates high in organic acid test, that’s more of indirect candida marker. So you’d wanna look at like D-Arabinitol, or ___[48:31] if using the GPL test. Uhm, and, you know, uh, tartaric acid, other things like that.

Evan Brand: Yup. Well, that’s all the questions, I think we killed it in, we donated an extra 10 minutes of time here, so why don’t we wrap this thing up, I’ll tell people again about your summit website.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent.

Evan Brand: It’s thyroidresetsummit.com, it works. Expecting probably 50, 60, maybe 70, 80, who knows? Thousand registrants. So, if you’re not coming to the party, then you’re missing out. So, this is gonna be probably one of the biggest events of the year honestly because thyroid problems are epidemic in the U.S. I’m sure I can pull up some random statistic for you from the CDC if you wanted to, but I’ll just tell you what, Justin and I see which is that, there are countless men and women out there with hashimoto’s, and they don’t even know it, it’s undiagnosed, autoimmune thyroid conditions around the world, these men and women are having anywhere from one to a million symptoms, it could be heart palpitations and anxiety-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: -one day, and they’re energetic, and then the next day they’re exhausted and they don’t know why. And then the next morning, they wake up in the middle of the night and they have heart racing in the middle of the night, they don’t know why. When that thyroid gets attacked by the immune system, it can squirt out little pieces of thyroid hormone and cause you to feel crazy. So, please make sure that you get your antibodies tested. Your TPO, your TG, maybe your TSI if you think you need to, because something you educated me on is that you can have hashimoto’s, and you can have graves at the same time, which sounds insane.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup, you can and, 1 out of 5 women have, uh, a- autoimmune issue, and, one of the most common thyroid issues, over 30 million people have it and don’t even know is, hashimoto’s. And the big issue with that is, it’s gonna create inflammation, it’s eventually gonna destroy your thyroid tissue, low thyroid hormones and it create all kinds of symptoms, and women tend to be more predisposed. I mean, on the guy, I’ve hashimoto’s too, so this isn’t you know, just me only reaching the females out there, men have it too, so you gotta look at it. Women are a little more predisposed, ’cause estrogen can- can affect the CD4 to CD8, uhm immune cell ratio and can make you more predisposed to autoimmune issues, but heck, we know guys are getting exposed to lots of estrogens too via the food, and the plastics and the pesticides. So, that’s another predisposing factor that can even make guys more susceptible even like myself, so, make sure you register. Thanks, so much Evan for the great podcast today, make sure you sign up and get that free 88-page eBook, my real book, the thyroid reset is coming out in the coming months is head. So, stay tuned, thanks so much, and have a phenomenal day. Take care.

Evan Brand: Take care. Bye-bye.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Bye.


References:

https://www.evanbrand.com/

https://justinhealth.com/

https://www.thyroidresetsummit.com/


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