The Nuts and Bolts of Your Mitochondria – How to Enhance Mitochondrial Function | Podcast #349

Have you ever thought about what powers are inside your body? In this video, Dr. J and Evan talk about mitochondria and how to boost them.

When we talk about your body’s powers, the easy answer is nutrients, of course! Our body transforms those nutrients into energy, and it’s that energy that boosts the cells in our body. All types of cells have small generators called mitochondria that, in many ways, are their sources for life. Mitochondria are the only part of the cell where our basic life requirements — food and air — are combined to make energy in a process known as the Krebs cycle.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

In this episode, we cover:

0:00:      Introduction
1:30:      The role of creatine in mitochondria
6:34:      Energy pathways
14:47:    Cell Danger Response
16:07:    Citric Acid Cycle

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mitochondrial function, your mitochondria, little the powerhouses in your cell and they help generate ATP which is the cellular currency of energy so to speak. And we’re going to talk about natural ways to improve mitochondrial function, Evan, and how we doing today, man.

Evan Brand: Doing really well. I think first, let’s dive into some of the big assaults that we have as a modern society on mitochondria. And that could be anything from viruses, bacteria, parasites, gut infections, pesticides, herbicides, heavy metals, plastics, phthalate’s, the BPA, the BPS, flame retardants, nonstick chemicals, car exhaust, air pollution. That I miss any I mean.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Like you hit a lot of I would say being sedentary. There’s a lot of mitochondria in your muscles. And if you don’t do enough, you’ll put enough force to those muscles, they will atrophy. And so just not doing enough about creating enough stimulus on your body. That could definitely we can and decrease your mitochondria in your muscles. So, I would say, sedentary and in active resistance through your muscles.

Evan Brand: OK, OK that’s a good point.  That’s a good point. So, you’re saying that, like, just in general, you have to have some level of physical stimulation physical activity to keep the mitochondria working. I guess it’s kind of like an old car that you’ve sat there…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: All your muscles at least. Yeah, ’cause if you decrease, you know your muscle levels via just atrophy due to lack of use. Yeah, your muscles will shrink absolutely and that’s your mitochondria will shrink for.

Evan Brand:  Sure, what about creatine? Do you know anything about the role of creatine in mitochondria? ’cause I know when I’m taking creatine, I just I feel stronger? Obviously, there’s creatine’s used a lot in like bodybuilding world, but there’s gotta be a mitochondrial mechanism there because I’ll tell you I feel like. I can lift, you know, at least a good 1020 pounds heavier on particular exercises with creatine in my system.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, me crazy definitely has an effect on growth hormone and improving growth hormone stuff that will help with muscle. Creatine is like instant energy for the muscle. So, it’s it’s there. It’s ready to be used right away in that first 10 seconds or five, five to 10 seconds of muscle use or like explosion movement through that muscle. So, that definitely plays a role in muscle. I’m not sure how it plugs in 100%. I see ’cause really you know with ATP right in the mitochondrial function? If you look inside the mitochondria you have glycolysis and then you have the electron transport chain. Or I’m sorry, you have the Krebs cycle citric acid cycle and that plugs into the electron transport chain. So, glycolysis that’s going to be utilizing the carbohydrate in the muscle right glycogen in the muscle. Fast immediate source. I think creating plugs into that top part. And then you have the Krebs cycle citric acid cycle, where B vitamins, magnesium. All these different things kind of plug into that and with that. With the citric acid or Kreb cycle, that didn’t mean the same thing. Essentially, they’re grabbing hydrogens, right? So, there it’s it’s a reducing agent, so it’s just grabbing reproduce. Reduction is a gain in electrons and so you have NAD goes around. Then it grabs NADH so you get 3 NADH and I think 1FADH2 so you have FADH. And it grabs another hydrogen and that becomes FADH2, and so it’s grabbing all these hydrogens. And then it’s essentially bringing those hydrogens downstream into the electron transport. Jane and Beta fatty acid oxidation there and so yeah, I think you generate was at 36 to 39 ATP through the Krebs cycle and the electron transport chain.

Evan Brand: Unless you’re in like chronic fatigue stayed, this cell danger response, and I think you’re spitting out something low like 2 maybe 3 ATP. I’ve read about this cell danger response. They just call it HDR in the literature, but it talks about how. The cell danger response, could be initiated by trauma or a car wreck or even mold exposure or tick-borne illnesses, or viruses. There’s a lot of you know, Epstein Barr. You’ll see the link between like mono and chronic fatigue. It said that these people are in this state of just a low power output, or even if you have the nutrients, you’re just not generating the ATP with some I don’t know if it was Caitlyn or somebody that you and I had looked into where there was a talk on this about. How the w the the ATP was literally in the single digits. The low single-digit output in some of these states. So, the message here is that for people that have chronic fatigue, you got to realize there is a mitochondrial component to this. Why don’t we talk about testing a little bit? The main thing that you and I are going to look at is going to be the organic acids. I know there are some other tests out there. I’ll admit I’ve had clients send them to me such as the mito swab. I’ve not run the model swab. Personally, I don’t know enough about it to speak on it much, but I’ll just say that it does exist. I believe it is a a mouth swab and it’s probably looking at just a couple generic markers in the saliva. But we like to use the organic acids test because, as you mentioned, there’s the Krebs cycle metabolites on there. We can look into the supinate or what some people call succinic acid. You’ve got the malic acid. You’ve got fumarate. There are other markers on there, and we we see when people have talks and exposure. Like I said in the beginning, the heavy metals, the mold, the pesticides will see those. Mitochondrial markers go up. And the higher the numbers go, generally, the more tired someone is because that indicates more damage to that Krebs cycle. So, the oh is huge, and then obviously we’ll look at stool too. Now the stool test you don’t measure like the stool tests we’re running. You’re not measuring mitochondrial function, but I look at it in a roundabout way. Meaning if you have all these gut infections producing toxins that could be damaging mitochondria as well, so we know that when we clear the gut out, we see the mitochondrial function improve.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. Yep 110%. I want to just put something on screens. People can see it here I guess is really helpful.

Evan Brand: Have you seen or heard about that my to swab before? Have you seen anybody send you those?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I have, I’ve ran up. Fulham, it’s kind of a binary test. It gives you a result my the issue I have it’s not a lot of actionable information. It’s like OK, you know there’s some issues there, but then now what’s, what’s the remedy that you’re going to plug in from a diet lifestyle supplement? Toxin reduction execution right? What’s the next step on it? So that’s the problem with some. Of those tests, I always. Look and I always ask well what’s the corrective action based on the test showing uses a concern.

Evan Brand: Yeah, yeah

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That makes sense.

Evan Brand: That’s the problem with a lot of them like I’ve seen a lot of these stool testing companies. Same thing there’s like so much data. Well, this percent of this bacteria and this percent of that. It’s like, what do I do with that? Is that an infection? Is that not an infection? So you and I’ve seen the same problem in other categories of health tests do.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. I want to show a couple things on screen here? Just so it’s crystal. Where the mitochondria is and how all these different energy pathways plug in, I think it’s important I’m going to pull it up here on screen in just a second so people can see it.

Evan Brand: Yeah, people listening on audio, they’re going to be lost. So just look up Doctor Justin YouTube page and you’ll be able to view some of this stuff. Some stuff, like mitochondria, gets a bit geeky. The the main thing here is toxins are a big factor in damaging this cycle and you gotta get toxins out. Reduce exposure where you can and we can run actually chemical test on your current too so we could talk about that in a minute.

 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely, and so if you look here right. Do you have the mitochondria right here. Some middle part, the mitochondri. The outer part is the cytosol.  So, from what I understand, like creatine is going to plug more into the cytosol and glycolysis, OK, but then you’re going to see you get about two ATP which is adenosine triphosphate. And this gets broken down into ADP and you get energy right? And so, you have glycolysis which generates a little bit of ATP 2. And creatine to plug more on the outside then that goes into your mitochondria. Now you have the Krebs cycle and the electron transport chain electron transport chains part of also the beta fatty acid oxidation. That’s how you burn fat for fuel. OK, so Krebs cycle that churns around twice, and essentially what you’re doing is you’re gathering NAD and FADH2. NAD&FADH are grabbing hydrogen so and a design to grab a hydrogen making NAD. HFADH is going to grab a hydrogen, making FADH2, so I think you’re going to grab it’s like two or three. NADH is, and then one FADH2. And all those hydrogens then go into the electron transport chain here and this is where you generate most of your ATP. And again, what comes out, oxygen comes and this is why, if you’re like anemic right? And you’re not carrying oxygen. Well, that’s why you’re going to get tired and this is going to have an effect on your thyroid and your adrenals because the mitochondria is important for energy at all levels. And so if we have anemic issues or were inflamed because inflammation is going to make it harder to carry oxygen all. And also nutrition, because this electron transport chain, when we run the organic acid test, we can look at citrate, malate, fumarate, succinate. These are important metabolic essentially inputs into the Krebs cycle that correlate with certain nutrients like amino acids, alpha-lipoic acid, magnesium B vitamins, and so we can get a window on how this. Krebs Cycle was functioning based on the organic acid testing at some of those compounds and then all sister connotate citrate, right? These are really important, and then electron transport chain we can get a window into things like carnitine and Co Q10 ’cause they also play a major role in the electron transport chain. So we get a good window with how the mitochondrial function functioning by looking at the B vitamins and looking at a lot of these nutrients and so essentially things that can impair this. As you mentioned, pesticides. Heavy metals, mold toxins, antibiotics, and all these things have a negative impact. But that’s kind of how things look, so we have. Glycolysis is the first part that then goes into the mitochondria, and then we have Krebs cycle and electron transport chains. These are the big three. If you can kind of zoom out and see how it looks and how it makes sense. That should hopefully make more sense, so on that front. Any question that, Evan?

Evan Brand:  Well people listening to that. They’re going to be like wow, this sounds like a really crazy rare problem, right? This must be just rare. This must be like a one in million case and I would say. Not going to say 99. I would say 90% of the people we work with. I see some level of mitochondrial dysfunction or damage either on the chemical profile test, so that’s something I alluded to earlier. We can run chemicals so we can look at gasoline. We can look at xylene. We can look at phthalates, all sorts of organophosphates. 24D is a major herbicide. I still see people at Lowe’s and Home Depot in the Garden Isle buying grass seed. That’s called weed and feed, weed and feed is a grass seed mixed with three different types of herbicides. It’s 24D, I believe it’s dicamba and glyphosate. Wait, I could have mixed one of those up, but either way, it’s three different chemicals, very toxic substances mixed with grass seed, and that’s like people just buy it and they don’t think anything of the term weed and feed. That means you’re going to be killing all the good stuff in your soil and poisoning yourself at the same time. It’s just not smart. So this mitochondrial thing. My point was, this is not rare, like when you show that image and people see that like. Oh no, that’s not happening to me. It’s like it happens every day, all day. I had mitochondrial damage, my latest test shows our mitochondria are much, much better, but I had significant mitochondrial damage from my mold exposure.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very interesting, I want to highlight one thing here so you can see creatine does primarily exist here in the cytosol, right? So if we zoom out, right cytosol is outside of the mitochondria, right? Right glucose, pyruvate here, so just so you guys can highlight here, creatine does go from the cytosol and it can go into the mitochondria. So, we did talk about creatine. It does primarily happen more in the cytosol outside the mitochondria, and it can go in via this. Mi-CRT kind of transport. Compound, so yeah, so creatine is a compound that we talked about that goes outside but can also go inside the mitochondria. To yeah Doctor Neil Nathan.

Evan Brand: That’s awesome! Doctor Neil Nathan did a huge thing for 155-page slide show that people can look up just called the Cell Danger Response. It’s very complex stuff. There’s going to be maybe a few geeky on that. People want to dive into that, but for your average person there’s not much takeaways built into that. But if you want to look into more of like the biochemistry side of it, then then you could look at it. But I think the big summary is it’s all. It’s all the Chemicals, and this is a relatively new problem I mean we face now over 80,000 chemicals are in the environment. Depending on what number you read, there’s only a small amount of those that are even tested. You’ll see stuff in Europe like oh Europe has banned these chemicals and makeup and personal care products, but the US was very far behind. And if you look at the environmental working group, they have a water testing report. You can look at and you can plug in your zip code. I mean just the amount of trihalomethanes’s pesticide herbicide residue pharmaceutical drugs that are in the municipal tap supply in your city are massive and you’re getting hit with this all the time. If you go to a restaurant and you eat rice, what do you think they make that rice with? They make it with tap water so you’re getting exposed to it that way too, which is why if I go out to eat, I don’t really do rice that often anyway. But if I do it, It’s going to be at home with good, clean filtered water.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I like it. Anything else you want to say on that, so obviously get the toxin exposure. Super important hydration obviously really important to anything else you want to say on that?

Evan Brand: Yeah, you hit you hit the the Co Q10. You mentioned some of the markers we’re going to look at on the oak test, so we will use those. We have a formula. I believe you’ve got 1/2 mines called my to boost. It’s essentially like a multi for the mitochondria with all the Co Q10, ribose, carnitine B vitamins. So, when we see mitochondrial dysfunction, we can supplement that and we tell people this is a band-aid for your mitochondria. This is not some of it is the root cause, right? If you just are simply low and depleted in Co Q10, one could argue supplementing Co Q 10 is the root cause, but in reality it was usually. Oh here we go. Let me see if I can share this slide with you. Mainly it was the the toxins that led to this so let. Me share my screen really quick.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And there is going to be because we do make Co Q10 on our own via the mevalonic acid pathway. And of course, as you get older, just like stomach acid, you’re gonna make less of it and so there there could just be a depletion based on age as well.

Evan Brand: Does that show up at all on your side? The video is that screen share show.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Try again.

There’s like a little bell there. Let me let me pop it up again. How about that, yes? Oh yeah, let me let.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Me highlight it, go ahead.

Evan Brand: Yeah, there we go. So, this is this is kind of what I was alluding to, and many many other people may have different ways to look at this, but this is from Neil Nathan. He had a great paper on this cell danger response and it just shows at the top here. Basically, everything I already mentioned like a flame. Heavy metals, pesticides, infection, so that would include viral issues as well. Mass cells, NK killer cells, cytokines, the microbiome. All these issues here are what really breaks this role. You know, the one of these is the final straw that breaks the camel’s back and then you end up in this what’s called the cell danger response phase. And then that’s where you get the issues with the mitochondria down regular. So there’s more in that. Like I said, it’s 155 pages. It’s like you got to be, you got to be, you know, have your bulletproof coffee before you look through that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  No, that makes a lot of sense, so your kind of really focusing on the toxicity and how that negatively impacts it. I want to just kind of tie in the dietary component. Why is food so important to enhancing the mitochondria? Let me let me break that down for a second here. This is important. OK, so this is really important. We talked about like Kreb cycle right? And so like this is our zoom out right? What’s happening here? We have glycolysis, Krebs cycle, electron transport chain outside of the mitochondria with the cytosol inside. Now check this out. This is a good one. This is from textbook of functional medicine, so. We have fats, carbs and proteins. These are our primary nutrients where everything comes from right. Fast could be coconut oil, grass fed butter could be fats from. Uhm, grass fed meat right? Our carbs can be vegetables, fruit, starch and our proteins could be protein powder or it could be animal protein, right? All of these essentially shuttled downstream. Fats get carried into the mitochondria via carnitine, so if you go into any biochemistry textbook, it’s called the carnitine. Shuttle right. Every medical doctor, doctorate level person would studied this at a graduate level. I studied as well now in the textbook of I think that guidance Physiology, but there’s another textbook of biochemistry that’s common at the graduate level. You know what the rate limiting amino acids to make carnitine are. It’s methionine and lysine and so really important.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Guess what some of the rate limiting amino acids are in a vegetarian diet.

Evan Brand:  Oh yeah, well.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Medallion Leisinger actually very deficient in vegetarian diets, and so this whole process of a carnitine shuttle here that helps bring carnitine converts it into acetyl Co A. So then the actual it can get inside the mitochondria. And run through the citric acid cycle again. That’s the same thing as Krebs Cycle. They have multiple names. In medicine for the same thing, it’s just meant to confuse people. So citric acid cycle or the Krebs cycle.  This is how we get fat inside the mitochondria is via carnitine. So very important, right so if we zoom out. Here, we have energy out here, fat. We get it inside via the carnitine shuttle. Super important there and then you see carbs. Right glucose, other sugars. We go pyruvate to lactate and we need guess what B vitamin? So if we’re putting in lots and lots of refined processed sugar and we’re insulin resistant, we can actually deplete B vitamins. And we can actually deplete a lot of magnesium and other nutrients downstream. So, this is really important. Too much carbs, too much sugar, especially if you’re insulin resistance and you’re putting on weight due to too much carbs. That’s going to be a problem, and you’re going to deplete nutrients now. Then we have proteins, amino acids. These all get converted downstream. We also need B itamin to support that now the difference is if you’re eating high quality protein. Guess what? You’re getting good quality B vitamins in that. Protein if you’re doing a lot of refined processed sugar, guess what? You’re not getting vitamins and nutrients with it. So carbohydrates, it’s possible to eat a lot of empty carbs that are actually going to deplete your nutrient levels. Protein not as much if it’s grass fed and organic right now, really, you’re taking all these nutrients, fats, carbs and proteins. You’re converting them into acetyl Co A. OK, you’re converting it to acetyl Co A and again we spit off beta-hydroxybutyrate what’s that? That’s a ketone now this is important. If we keep our carbs in check we can use ketones for fuel, so this is a really important fuel source or people that are going to be lower carb because we’re going to be more keto adapted. We’re going to be able to use that and then you can see here that acetyl Co A. Runs around the Krebs cycle. Twice we go 2 turns. Guess what, we need cysteine amino acid iron really important. So if you’re a female you have heavy bleeding your estrogen dominant you heavy bleeding that’s in effect energy magnesium manganese B vitamins lipoic acid magnesium B vitamins B vitamins tyrosine phenylalanine aspartate, glycine, histidine, arginine, proline. Glycine, valine methionine, right? These are all amino acids over here. So, we need amino acids to run these systems. We need B vitamins. We need magnesium and then of course, once we pump these things around, here’s our NADH and then our FADH should be there somewhere as well. So here NADH, it may not. They may just be oversimplifying it not showing it. But we have NADH here. We should have an FADH2 coming in. This all goes right into. Guess what? This is the electron transport chain and base. Yeah, fatty acid oxidation right there, right? This is now now hydroxymethyl Glutarate. This is Co Q10. This is where Co Q10 comes in and this is where it runs through the electron transport chain and burning fat for fuel and we generate our 36 to 38 ATP from all these three sources 1-2 and three and so that’s what’s happening in your mitochondria. So just to kind of highlight macro nutrients, fats, protein, carbs, very important two, don’t junk it up with all the toxins that you mentioned. And then of course, making sure we. Can breakdown protein. Make sure we’re getting enough iron making. Sure, we’re not. Anemic right? All of those things kind of flow into allowing all these pathways to to work optimally.

Evan Brand: That’s amazing, I love the breakdown to that. The visual super helpful. So just to clarify a little bit. So for women out there, you’re saying that if having heavy ministration, they have low iron. It’s not just the the low iron that we assume is creating like a low oxygenation, you’re you’re showing here. The low iron is literally creating a mitochondrial deficit.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Correct. You’re not getting the oxygen in right? If we go back to here, right? Mitochondria, what do we need to get into the mitochondria? Oxygen, what’s one of the big carrying capacities for oxygen in the body? Hemoglobin and then iron affects hemoglobin in red blood cells, right? Hemoglobin is part of the red blood cell carrying capacity and we need the iron to really keep the hemoglobin levels up so we can carry enough oxygen.

Evan Brand: Wow, so there’s why you’re tired.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Could be. Yet, one and then of course all of the other nutrients play a role. Not enough of the amino acids. The only issue with this graph, any biochemists that are looking on? I think the only thing that’s missing is really the FADH2, so it should. So, all these things, they’re just reducing compounds. Really, the whole goal of this Kreb cycle to run is just grabbing hydrogens. And then once we grab these hydrogens, Uhm, these things get cleaved off, and then it generates ATP. What’s happening there? And all these things like hydroxymethyl iterate. These are right. These are all driven through Co, Q10, right? We need Co Q10 to make that happen.

Evan Brand: Now for people like supplementing ketones, if you go back up to the top there, you can basically kind of inject your own spark plug into the cycle, I guess right? If you’re taking exogenous ketones, what is that doing in relationship to this whole cycle?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s giving you more beta hydroxybutyrate. The problem is your body is going to primarily want to use that when insulin levels are lower, so you have to keep your insulin levels and check. If not, you’re not setting your Physiology up to want to burn that. If you’re probably, gonna pee it out more like more than likely versus burn it. Cause typically, your body has an enzyme called hormone sensitive light pace where it wants to break down fat and convert more of these ketones. Hormone-sensitive light base is inverse with insulin. So hire your hormone-sensitive light pace is you need lower insulin to make that happen.

Evan Brand: So the lady who eats the donut and then goes to the store and buys her exogenous ketones, she’s wasting her.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Probably not as good. There may be some mild benefits that you get cognitively just ’cause your brain has some additional fuel to run on. If people brains are insulin resistant, they may have a lot of sugar from that doughnut, but the cells in their brain maybe so numb. To it that they may not be able to access it so some ketones could be helpful, but in the end, you want to fix the insulin resistance if you’re going to do it. Try doing both. Don’t just do the ketones. Try to do both that you can.

Evan Brand: And you can make your own ketones too. For free.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, yeah, that’s how you’re doing that you keep in your insulin in check. And you’re going to start. Making your own. 100%.

Evan Brand: Yeah, cool.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Cool, that was awesome. Very cool guys. I hope you guys enjoyed today’s podcast. We’re trying to be a little bit more visual; you know. Go into some hard hard science Y stuff, but you know just kind of zoom out. Like what’s the take home right? The take home is don’t put junkie toxins and that screw up your mitochondria right? Antibiotics, I mean antibiotics? You know if if you have an acute infection that’s not resolving, you know you gotta do what you gotta do, right? You have an acute pneumonia. You gotta do what you gotta do. Talk to your doctor about it. Just don’t go to antibiotics all the time as your first line defense. Try to do some. More natural things to fix it #2 you know, try to be aware of mold in your environment. Make sure you’re not. Getting exposed to pesticides. Chemicals heavy metals. Make sure you’re doing your best to hydrate right. We need water to make this whole thing work too. I would say after that make sure you have your macronutrient style, then good quality protein fats and carbohydrates. Organic sources dial in your carbs so you’re not insulin resistant and make sure your inflammation is good. Inflammation helps with oxygenation and blood flow. Then after that we can look at using supplemental nutrients in my line and Evans line we have mito supports products mine is mito synergy. Evans is my toe. Boots will put links down below. Those products have a lot of these nutrients. It’s going to have the ribose to creatine the carnitine, the B vitamin. Since it’s going to have the Co Q10, it’s going to have actually Kreb cycle intermediary compounds like fumarate malate, succinate. All those different nutrients or run those pathways better. Of course, that all sits on top of a solid diet. Don’t take supplements if you’re going to eat crap, eat really great and then say OK now I’m going to work on enhancing it. And again, we can run testing on organic. Message to look at some of these intermediary nutrients, like citrate to connotate succinate bloomer, a mallet we can actually test them, which is pretty cool.

Evan Brand: Yeah, the testing is the best part because you you know if you actually need it. I can tell you the average person has mitochondrial problem, so in general, could you just take this? I kind of call it a multi for the mitochondria. Could you just take that test? You know like a guess and check you could, but we like to see the data and obviously my biggest thing is looking for mold colonization. Candida overgrowth clostridia. Some of these gut infections and how that affects your brain chemistry too. So when you do the oh, you really are getting the best bang for your buck in terms of testing. Like if you could only do one test out there, I think the oh it would. Probably be the number one most.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Important 110%. Anything else you want to say?

Evan Brand: If people need help, they can reach out to you worldwide or me worldwide. Doctor J at justinhealthcom me Evan at evanbrand.com and we would love to chat with you about your symptoms, your goals and we’ll tell you for your good fit for care, so please feel free to reach out. Look forward to helping you.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Foot and get adjusted. Help calm here and then you guys have any questions, comments or concerns. Put him down below. Let us know. Kind of what you’re doing. What’s working that really helps us out as well. Very cool. Alright guys, well you guys have a phenomenal day here and we’ll. Be in touch. Take care of y’all.

Evan Brand: Sounds good.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Alright Bye bye.


References:

https://justinhealth.com/

https://www.evanbrand.com/

Audio Podcast:

https://justinhealth.libsyn.com/the-gut-lung-connection-your-gut-health-can-affect-your-breathing-podcast-348

Recommended products:

Mito Synergy

Mito Boost

Deluxe Mold Test Kit

GPL Mycotox

Genova Organix Comprehensive Profile

Genova NutrEval FMV

 

The Top 5 Nutrients to Address Gut Inflammation and Leaky Gut | Podcast #339

Whenever you are worried about your gut health and having inflammation, Dr. J and Evan are here to share five essentials that may help you.

Lessen your intake of highly processed foods, refined carbs, sugar, artificial sweeteners, and alcohol. Opt instead for anti-inflammatory foods like fruits, vegetables, spices, and healthy fats but, if you suspect that several foods are triggering inflammation in your gut, it might be worth giving an elimination diet a try.

It may require removing foods from your diet that you suspect are connected to your gut problems for roughly two to three weeks at a time. Inflammation in your gut may cause a host of harmful health symptoms, from fatigue to irregular periods and chronic constipation. However, a few changes to your diet and lifestyle might be vital to helping you control these symptoms and improve your gut health.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

In this podcast, we cover:

0:48   Looking into the Gut Deeper

3:53   Good Foundations

6:26   Chewing is Important

8:22   Mushrooms as Anti-Inflammatory Properties

16:00  Probiotics

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Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey guys, it’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani here. Today’s podcast is we’re going to be talking about the top five nutrients to address gut inflammation, and leaky gut or gut permeability. So this is a topic that’s pertinent to a lot of our patients as gut inflammation, there’s usually some component in why they’re not feeling good. So I’m really excited to address this today with Evan, we’re gonna dive into the things that we do clinically, the things that work with our patients, the things that actually get results, we’ll break it down, and we’ll kind of give you guys some action items for today as well. And what’s cooking man? How are we doing?

Evan Brand: Hey, you’re doing really well. And you know, we always come up with a title. And then we over deliver on that title. So we’re calling this something along the lines of top five nutrients to help your gut or to heal your gut or support intestinal permeability, but maybe we end up going over five. So I’m just gonna go straight to my favorite because it’s so easy. It’s so broad spectrum in its use. And it’s so safe for people across the board to use it, whether it’s kids, adults, the elderly population, even people that don’t have testing, you know, our philosophy is test don’t guess we want to have the data, we want to have good stool testing, and good organic acids testing to look into the gut deeper and figure out what’s going on under the hood. But there is usually a three, sometimes four week timeline between talking with a client or a new patient and then getting the test results. So what do we do to help these people in that in between time before we can do the real work based on the data, I’d say my favorite is probably aloe, and specifically you and I use an aloe extract. It’s a 200 to one, so it’s 200 pounds of gel converted to one pound of extract, and then that’s encapsulated. We had a young boy, not super young, maybe 16 17. But he was diagnosed with autoimmune gut issues, Crohn’s all sort of colitis, actually pan colitis where the whole digestive tract was affected major bleeding in the store. We got him on simply a 200 to one extract of aloe. And within three weeks, we did a new gi map stool test, and we dropped his calprotectin levels, which is his gut inflammation by 1000 points, just by aloe alone.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Unbelievable. Yeah, it’s powerful what nutrients can do now I always tell patients, if you’re trying to come in and make some changes out of the gates, I mean, your best bang for your buck would be fixing the food, because the food is constantly getting your body getting your gut in flames. So the first thing we can do is look at the the the inflammatory food that could be coming in this could be gluten or other technically gluten free grains like corn, oat, rice, those kinds of things. So you want to really get the grains out, you want to really get a lot of the poly polyunsaturated omega six vegetable oils. And again, the reason why vegetable oils tend to be more, let’s say poor is because they’re highly processed to extract the fat. And the processing actually damages the fat and creates free radical stress within those fats. Because the more you take in damaged fats, your body has to utilize antioxidants to stabilize the fats. So they don’t create free radicals. And so it depletes a lot of your antioxidants. And then those fast take on and become part of your cell membrane. And to have healthy cells you have to have good membrane. Because the membrane essentially is the brain of your cell. It provides a lot of good cellular communication happens with the membrane. So if you have junky fats, whether it’s omega six junky fats, or trans fats like hydrogenated soybean oil, right, those kinds of things, canola, you know, safflower, those are going to be more junky omega six, and they’re going to really not make the healthiest cell membranes, they’re going to deplete your antioxidant reserves. And if they’re on the trans fat side, they’ll make your cell membranes very inflexible too.

Evan Brand: Yeah, good point. And I apologize for skipping over the diet piece, you know, you think of the typical American person, they think, just give me the pill. Give me the magic remedy. So we’ll talk about some of those remedies. But yeah, you make a great point, you can’t go out to Pizza Hut for dinner, and then just take an aloe capsule, and everything’s going to be okay. Correct.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. So that’s it’s good to look at the foundation out of the gates. I’d also say like, I’ll just kind of put this next category into a broad category and just say, amino acids. And these amino acids could be things like an acetylglucosamine, NaG that could be things like glycine, which are going to be very high in collagen or bone broth. And they could also be things like glutamine, so I kind of put these in the amino acid bucket, when they tend to be very good support for the entire sites of the gut lining, that can be used as fuel for the gut lining, they also can help with gut permeability. And, and glycine is a really good backbone for connective tissue. So it can be very helpful for that lot of that connective tissue healing out of the gates.

Evan Brand: So how about enzymes? When you hear nutrients to heal the gut or support the gut, you don’t necessarily think about enzymes, you think of more like you mentioned, the glutamine, Aloe, the kind of calming, soothing things, but I would argue enzymes have a role in helping with reducing gut inflammation simply by improving digestion and reducing the putrifying and fermenting of foods because I know my gut was Super inflamed. If I look back at some of my original stool tests, when I had gut infections, yes, I was doing things to soothe my gut, but simply just treated, the infections alone got the inflammation down. And part of that process of treating the infections was using enzymes, because my digestion was so terrible, I would get exhausted after a meal. And that was a sign that I had low stomach acid. So I would say the enzyme should be on our list here, because so many people do to age due to stress. Maybe you’re eating in a loud restaurant, like you’re on your lunch break for work, and you’re listening to us or there’s music, boom, boom, boom in the background, and you’re sympathetically stressed while you’re eating enzymes, to me would be a good insurance policy to help break down your foods and then therefore reduce inflammation.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, foods are not broken down properly, they’re going to sit, they’re going to ferment, they’re going to purify, they’re going to read certify also, those foods are more likely to create hydrogen and methane gases because they’re fermenting, and those gases can throw off your motility, motility and how you move the bowels. And if the bowels are one too short, or should take too fast on the diarrhea side, you may not absorb those nutrients well. And if they’re too long, on the conservation side, you may reabsorb fecal toxins. And so you know, long or short on the bowel motility can definitely affect absorption or create more toxins in the body. So I think that’s a big one. And then just kind of connecting the enzymes and we could throw HCl in there too, because HCl helps activate enzymes, I would say chewing, chewing and and really just the mastication and healthy eating habits because chewing your food up really fine, allows more surface area for those enzymes and acids to work. So you can have a good amount of enzymes or acids, you only have a couple of chews. you swallow your food, those enzymes and acids aren’t gonna work as good as you really chew it up, you know, 30 to choose one chew per tooth, you know, ideally like an oatmeal like consistencies and allow those enzymes and acids to work better.

Evan Brand: Yeah, I’m 18th down. So I guess I get off the hook with 32. You know, I have my wisdom teeth and my 12 year molders out so.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, yeah, there you go. I mean, I have my wisdom teeth out as well. So I’m kind of at 28 as well. So I get it. So let’s just say 30 plus or minus a couple.

Evan Brand: It’s hard. I’ve tried to do that I’ve tried to do that many choose, oh man, my jaw gets tired. So and that’s the that’s the problem too, that we have with our food is like you go to Chipotle, a for example. Everything’s really soft. Like if you get rice if you get like carnitas. Or if you get the chicken, you barely have to chew it. It’s almost like mush. So I try to personally seek out occasionally I will seek out whether it’s like beef jerky, or no bison jerky or even just a steak, you know, I try to really get something that works my job because I just feel like in America, our food is so soft and easily digestible, that we don’t have to really chew anymore.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, so if you have a nice steak or a nice whole chicken, just make sure you chew it up. Same thing goes with over hydrating, you know, try to get your first thing I do is and I get to go eat a meal, I kind of go to the reverse osmosis filter, get a nice big glass of water to add some minerals, one, two, and then I get my meal going that way it gives me 10 15 minutes or so for everything to absorb. And of course the colder the water you got to take a little bit longer because your body holds that water in your stomach, heats it up to about room temperature and then passes it through. So the colder that water is, the longer you should wait in between the meal

About mushrooms. This is something that you know, just doing a little bit of research before we hit record, that this is something that I don’t necessarily go to right out of the gate but I’ve been using mushrooms for a long time. I know you and I personally have been taking mushrooms for a long time. And it turns out that for example, Lion’s Mane mushroom has some really, I would say probably just as impressive as some of the other herbs you’re mentioning, whether it’s like dgl, licorice or marshmallow kind of the conventional gut healing ones. Lion’s Mane has some really awesome anti inflammatory properties. There were two papers that we had found here on Lion’s Mane mushroom being shown to protect from and shrink gastric ulcers. Also, Lion’s Mane was shown to significantly improve symptoms of two major inflammatory disorders of the digestive system. And so that’s cool, because normally we’re using Lion’s Mane for cognitive problems. I know for me, my brain is much more clear. I’ve got Lion’s Mane mushroom in my system right now. I took two capsules this morning, and I certainly feel it mentally. But I did not even think that I was feeling it in my gut. So that’s cool.

Totally. Yeah, that gets really important. Again, a lot of gut issues, the immune system can be a big player at it. And so of course, if you’re able to modulate the immune system with the medicinal mushrooms, or immunogenic compounds that are going to be in those mushrooms, whether it’s beta one, three, D glucan, whatever that is, it could have an effect on gut permeability and improving digestion. I think all that’s very, very important. Also, just kind of one pet peeve of mine. Someone in the comments was chatting about this. A lot of people when they talk about leaky gut, they talk about leaky gut like like it’s the cause of Problem. leaky gut is the effects of on what’s happening with the gut. So the more inflamed you are, the more you’re not breaking down your food. The more crappy The food is, the more inflammatory The food is, the more dysbiosis we have, the the lack of certain nutrients we have, the more stress we are right. All that then creates and increases the chance of gut permeability. Gut permeability isn’t the cause unto itself. It’s the effects of a lot of other issues happening. So when people talk about Oh, you gotta fix the leaky gut. It’s like, not necessarily, you know, it’s like, it’s like saying, Oh, we have to fix. Imagine you have a leak in your roof and the waters pulling on the carpet below you. So we got to fix that water on the floor. It’s like, No, no, you fix the hole in the roof. And again, it may be semantics, but we got to call a spade a spade. If the water’s coming into the roof, you talk to them, we got to fix the hole in the roof. You don’t say we fixed the the water on the ground, right? So I just want everyone I want to train everyone to kind of get thinking about things from a root cause standpoint, versus labeling the damage at the end result conventional medicines really good at labeling damage down here and not talking about the effects of top that should the cause up top there labeling the effects down here. So we want to go root cause?

Yeah, that’s great. And I’m sure we could come up with other analogies on it. But that makes a lot of sense. It’s kind of like, okay, we need to come in with the towel. Oh, no. Now we have this super absorbent towel, this towel is going to absorb 1000 times more water on your floor than any other towel. And then yes, this, this carpet is mold resistant. So if you use this carpet, that water in your carpet won’t create mold, but you’re still missing the frickin hole in the roof roof.

Exactly, exactly. So we just got to really be on top of that. Make sure everyone’s thinking root cause I think that’s really helpful.

Well, let’s call it out. Let’s call out why that happens, though. It’s simply money. And it’s the supplement industry. There’s a lot of money. Yeah, it’s marketing. There’s a lot of money made on leaky gut this and this leaky gut book and this leaky gut protocol and this leaky gut practitioner. The problem is you could take all these leaky gut support for a decade and never treat the infections like if you just went and did like you mentioned glutamine, and we hit the zinc carnosine and the dgl. And we did the aloe, like we talked about in the beginning, none of those are going to erase a blastocyst is hominis, parasite infection, none of those are going to get rid of Giardia. None of those are going to treat the H pylori, they may help. But they’re definitely not going to eradicate the issue causing the leaky gut in the first place. So that’s just marketing. It’s money involved in this. And, you know, as practitioners, I think it’s really smart of you to call it out like that, because it’s, it is frustrating for us because we’ll look on a new client or new patients intake form. And they’ll be taking all these quote leaky gut supplements. Yeah, I found this leaky gut protocol online, and I still have all these digestive problems. And it’s like, well, yeah, look at your stool test, you have all these issues. And you could do that for 20 years and never fix it. So I could rant on that all day.

Yeah, other thing I would just say out of the gates is it’s okay to palliative Li support the leaky gut, we just have to make sure when you’re palliative Li supporting something we’re also root cause supporting it as well root cause fixing it. Palliative support, totally fine, right. Nothing wrong with that we just got to call a spade a spade and and not pretend the palliative leaky gut support is root cause support. Yeah, long as we can do that, then I think we’re pretty good. Next thing I would highlight out of the gates and you see this herb being listed as being very helpful for the gut permeability, but it’s also very helpful on the adrenal. So that’s licorice. And so when we use licorice is a lot of licorice being used in leaky gut supports. That’s that’s d glycerides. And this is the glycerides component of the licorice is pulled out. And the glycerides component of a licorice is is the component that slows the breakdown of cortisol, I think it’s the 11 beta hydroxy steroid dehydrogenase to enzyme. The licorice inhibits that enzyme. That’s the enzyme that helps break down cortisol. So we know cortisol too low, we need healthy levels of cortisol to actually build up the gut lining. It helps with building up the gut lining. Of course, if our cortisol levels are too high, and we’re chronically stressed, right, that can also break down the gut lining. We know that with people that are chronically stressed getting ulcers, right, we know that as well. And so when we look at licorice, it really helps with cortisol improvement. So if we do a cortisol test, and we see chronically low cortisol, that can actually help with the gut lining with the mucosa with the stomach with the duodenum. And that can actually help with the cortisol bringing that back up. And that can help build back up that gut lining. And so we like licorice, that’s non diglycerides for the gut and Nanda glycerides licorice, we give it typically orally sublingually, to our patients, that will eventually trickle downstream to the gut as well. And so licorice can be a powerful thing. You just have to be careful if you’re giving a non diglycerides version that people that have already higher level of cortisol, that may make things worse. So we just got to make sure we’re testing that to know what kind of pattern we’re seeing.

Yeah, that’s a good point. So we could do a whole part two on that. If you want. Give us some feedback. Like maybe the gut hormone connection. And we could hit that in detail. But yeah, you highlighted a very important point, which is that cortisol is involved with this whole process. And it really is a Goldilocks zone. If you have too little cortisol, you’re exhausted. And you’re probably going to be dependent on stimulants and caffeine and sugar and things that are going to damage your gut. But then simply, you don’t have enough to build up the gut. And then if you have too much, now you’re catabolic, you’re breaking down your muscle tissue, and you’re breaking down your gut barrier. That’s probably part of the reason that I lost a lot of weight and a lot of muscle. When I first moved to Texas, I had gut infections, and I was incredibly stressed, just moving and leaving my family behind, you know, emotional stuff, homesickness gut infections, I had the perfect storm to tear up my gut. So I can tell you firsthand that adrenal supports did help. And that was probably because it was helping regulate the cortisol levels, which then in turn, took the load off my gut, so to speak.

100% Yeah, I like that. And so it’s good to really make sure that’s under control. 

Evan Brand: How about probiotics? I think it’s worth mentioning. These are totally valuable tools that can help regulate histamine. Yeah, and regulate bacteria with it. So let’s dive into that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, so you have to you I said you have three to four big families. Okay. So you typically have your lactobacillus and bifidobacterium, which are typically come together and usually a good high quality broad spectrum probiotic. So my line we have one called profile, Florida doesn’t have a lot of the different lactobacillus whether it’s kci acidophilus Bulgaria’s brevis, rhamnosus. And then of course, you have a lot of the bifidobacterium whether it’s bifidobacterium, bifidum, longum, brevis, right. So those are your broad spectrum lactobacillus or bifidobacterium. Probiotics, lots of good data, lots of good research anywhere from food poisoning for inflammation reduction, gut permeability reduction. nutrient absorption is all kinds of different studies connecting the dots on those so that’s kind of the bifidobacteria, lactobacillus Of course, we have more of our spore based or soil based probiotics. These are going to be a lot of your bacillus strains, right, whether it’s bacillus, subtlest class ei coagulans, like Informix, right. These are the bacillus strains. These are really good if you are very much cebo sensitive, fodmap sensitive, we may use some of these over a bifido lactobacillus species. And then of course, I’m a big fan of the probiotic that’s kind of more of a beneficial yeast called Saccharomyces boulardii in my lammie, one called sacral flora, again, we’ll put the links below for for all y’all so if you want to see it, we’ll put the links below sacral Flora Saccharomyces boulardii is very helpful a lot of studies on it, helping to improve immunity in the gut IGA IGA levels going to get low and just gut inflammation or gut stress. Of course, it’s going to help with food poisoning a lot of studies on it helping with H. pylori, C. diff, Clostridium difficile, blastocystis hominess. It also helps crowd out yeast and Candida so there’s a lot of excellent benefits with saccharomyces we love it and it’s usually going to be a core part of my probiotic, my fifth r which is repopulation re inoculation on the good healthy probiotics, once the fourth hour is done right fourth hours and to be removing the gut bugs removing the gut infections. Fifth hour, we come in repopulate re inoculate with good bacteria. Most people kind of sweet they want to start probiotics sooner, and that may not be the best step. Not saying it may not help. But some people have just found one that’s just a lot of pills. And two, if they have a lot of bad bugs in there. It’s like going and getting a whole bunch of good fresh grass seeds throw down on a lawn full of weeds, right? You got to get the weeds done before we throw down the seeds right got to get the car washed or we get waxed.

Evan Brand: Kind of like that. Yeah, we had a lot of good feedback on the podcast we did remember we were talking about probiotics and how a lot of new research is showing probiotics are being used to help with getting out mycotoxins and we know that mold toxins damage the gut. So yes, so I have been I’ve honestly been working in probiotics into the protocol sooner and most people do well. There are some like you said that just don’t you got to pull the weeds before you throw the seeds. But there are a lot of people doing really good with throwing probiotics and sooner in the protocols now. So like you said, if they can handle the amount of pills, maybe we try to sneak one or two in or we could do like powdered versions, typically, it’s like a quarter teaspoon, we could throw in a blend like that sack be you could you could do powder and maybe throw it in a smoothie or something. So we are trying to integrate those a lot. And I’ve had amazing success personally with probiotics. So I think it’s interesting, there’s still a lot of people that poopoo probiotic probiotics I know you and I we kind of get, you know, so caught up in the clinical trenches that we may miss some things, but I do get a couple of emails, you know, here and there from from people, clients sending them like, hey, this guy like says probiotics are a waste of money, and you know, that they don’t work. And I would just say that’s not true. We have so much clinical data personally.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s all about context, right? It’s like if someone comes in, they have chronic gut issues, and they’re just taking a probiotic thinking that that’s going to be the answer to their gut problems. It’s probably not right, and that’s where we’re trying to have a comprehensive functional medicine plan. That’s root cause and not just trying to Pro supplements at the wall thinking that that’s going to fix it. So yeah, I understand if that you know where that person is coming up with that, that bias that biases from not having a comprehensive root cause plan with a functional medicine practitioner, they’re just trying to throw stuff at them instead it hoping it will fix the symptoms, not fix the root cause.

Well, here’s Yeah, good, good point. Here’s the other thing, too, it’s even some probiotic companies will say that about other companies, it’s more of a marketing thing like, hey, their probiotic is crap, or it doesn’t work because of X, Y, or Z. But I will just say with what you and I use, clinically, we’re using professional supplement manufacturers exclusive only to health care providers. And a lot of the stuff we use, we have extended release technology. So when arguments like probiotics are going to die in the stomach, they’re not even going to make it to where they need to. But a lot of the new technology we use, they’re not even going to break open, they’re going to be resistant to the stomach acid. So that’s another problem too, when you hear these little like, super sometimes buzzworthy type articles. It’s not taking into consideration the quality, the quantity, the purity, the potency, the technology involved, it’s like probiotics, they get the label, and then that’s it. And that’s just not a fair classification.

Correct. And then also consumer reports that a study on probiotics a couple years back maybe 5 10 years ago. And what they found is most probiotics that they put a number on the outside of the bottle, hey, this is how many colony forming units. And what a lot of the cheap companies do is they say, Okay, this is how many should have been in this probiotic at manufacturing of this product. Let’s say it’s 20 billion. Now, what the professional companies do is, right, when you’re buying high quality, professional ingredients, they’re gonna say this is how many colony forming units should be in this capsule at expiration. And so you’re looking at something like two to three times the amount of those that species that CFU on the bottle colony forming units, is going to be typically in there. So when you see like, in my probiotic, I think it’s 40 billion per two capsules, right? That’s going to be what’s in there two years from now at expiration, right? And so obviously, it’s going to be two to three times the amount of that before. And so you want to use professional companies. So what you see on the label is always worst case, scenario, number one, and then also how products are stored by professional companies is very important. So like, where we have our warehouses, like everything is stored in an air conditioned or a refrigerated environment for a lot of our probiotics, some don’t necessarily need that. But which we value, the the scenario and how that store because that really increases potency, too.

Evan Brand: Yeah. And the funny thing is, too, we’ve seen some papers on supposedly expiration dates, you know, this is something that you and I are forced to do with the professional companies we work with. But you know, we’ve seen some research on supplements from 2030 years ago, still being viable, meaning they still had some potency and purity to them. And obviously, they still had a biological effect. So to me, I would if I had to pick like a consumer shelf bought probiotic, or a suppose that expired professional product, I’m going to go for the supposedly expired product, I’d go for a five year old professional probiotic, then, you know, on the shelf today consumer level.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, exactly. And also a lot of the probiotics or supplements that require refrigeration on the warehousing side, a lot of times you’re just not going to get that on Amazon, you’re not going to get that level of specificity just because that’s not how their warehouses are set up. And so with ours, we make sure that that refrigeration components is there because we’re working with patients and we need we need that potency, because we’re trying to get clinical outcomes, right. We’re trying to sell and provide a clinical outcome for the patient. And if we’re just providing products that aren’t meeting that standard, we’re not going to win. And of course, we want to be successful on that front.

Evan Brand: Yeah, yeah. Well say Well, I think we covered a lot of it. So the mushrooms are beneficial Lion’s Mane the mushroom is amazing for the brain, but for the gut also Chaga mushroom would be great reishi mushroom could also deserve a good mention, you hit upon the amino acids. So the glutamine or the various types of glucose amines involved. We love amino acids, we use those all the time you mentioned like collagen also being you know, part of that makeup, we hit on some of the herbs like the the licorice, or the dgl version of it, the marshmallow, we like to use a lot, we hit upon the aloe, and then we hit the probiotics, I think those are the big categories. And then the enzymes we hit that too.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think we did a really good job hitting a couple and I just I really want to plug in concepts, right? Like a lot of people, they just try to throw information at people and and try to memorize that. I think that’s not beneficial. But if you can just understand concepts, right? A concept is just something that sticks. You either get it or you don’t. And so we try to use a lot of analogies and understand we try to plug in a lot of the concepts of root cause versus palliative cause. We try to get you to think about, hey, if this helps, why does it help? is it just an anti inflammatory? is it helping just improve better digestion? is it helping your immune system? is it helping your adrenals and helping you that your body’s natural process to build back up that gut lining? What’s the underlying mechanisms if you understand that, then you see how it plugs into the greater matrix of healing.

Evan Brand: Yeah, I mean, I agree 1,000%. So, I think the big concept of today is Yes, here are some things here are some nutrients you can use. However, we really want to make sure you’re testing, not guessing. So if you do need the aloe to calm the gut for now, you need the enzymes to help improve digestion. For now, you notice that HCl is helping with your heartburn or you notice that the enzymes are reducing your bloating, or your burping or your gas. Great, but what led to all that in the first place? What led you to need the aloe because you had gut inflammation, what led you to need the enzymes, that’s where somebody like us can come in and help you figure that out and plot it on paper. And, you know, we’ve been through the trenches personally. And clinically, we’re always improving upon herself. You know, I work on my children, I know you work on your children, we’re giving our kids things to help their guts, I mean, so this is like a, there’s no finish line, I don’t want people to think, Hey, I just do this aloe for a month, and then I’m done. You know, there’s not a finish line with the gut, we’re constantly being exposed to new toxins and new pathogens. We’ve even seen with the virus that’s been going around a lot of issues with the gut there, we’ve seen a lot of issue with tissue destruction in the intestinal tract. So who knows? Right now with the 5 10 year outlook of the GI health in the US is right now, our guts are notoriously bad, due to glyphosate and other things, damaging them. So just a quick note, you kind of started with the diet all and with the diet 100% organic is important, if you’re going to go buy all these probiotics, but yet, you’re going to eat strawberries with an average of 22 pesticides on them. If they’re not organic, you’re wasting your frickin time and your money because we know all those pesticides are just killing the beneficial bacteria in your gut that you’re trying to re inoculate or repopulate with. So please go organic, you know, before you spend money on probiotics.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. And then also how long do these probiotic strains last in your gut, I mean, a lot of times, you’re going to see the data show in about one month or so. So that they don’t stay forever. So when you take a probiotic, it’s not like it’s there forever. So it’ll it’ll hang around typically for a month, it’ll help with a nutrient synthesis, it’ll help with nutrient absorption, it’ll help with inflammation, modulating the immune system, there’s some data that maybe the spore based probiotics hang around a little bit longer, and they may help proliferate the growth of other beneficial species. So just think when you take a probiotic, it’s not forever. Now the goal is that we’re getting some level of fermentable foods in your diet, whether it’s from sauerkraut, or low sugar kombucha, or some kind of fermented pickle or something, or, you know, cultured coconut milk or potentially high quality raw milk if you can tolerate it. So you know, that’s typically how we’re getting exposed to probiotics more on a day in weekend kind of situation. If you’re someone that can’t get that level of exposure with fermented oils from food, then you probably want to be on a probiotic a little bit more frequently, if you’re not getting those fermentable. So we just got to plug and play where we’re at. I think our ancestors probably did more fermentable foods, which is ideal. But if we can’t we plug in a good quality probiotic, or at least throw in something every couple of months, just to kind of fill in the gap to make sure we’re getting exposed to those good for mandibles.

Evan Brand: Yeah, great point, I just want to highlight what you said too, which is like your gut bacteria are actually going to help you with your health in other ways. So once gut bacteria optimize your healing the gut, you’re making neurotransmitters the way you should you’re making serotonin, you’re making things to improve yourself, you’re making B vitamins to help your energy and your mitochondria. So this is why I really the gut, I mean, we just we can’t stop talking about it because it literally is the foundation.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. So just kind of want to make sure that is understood. And that makes sense for everyone. We’ll put a list of recommended products down below. So you guys have access to those you want to support us support the show, we appreciate it put those down below. Also, if you guys want to reach out to Evan brand, head over to EvanBrand.com, Evan is there for you guys worldwide. And again, I’m there for you as well, justinhealth.com, Dr. J myself, there’ll be a little link button, you guys can click and reach out to us we are available worldwide to help you guys help you help support y’all. We want to make sure they have the support you need. And you have a good comprehensive plan to get what’s going in the right direction if you’re not having success. And then also just try to apply one thing today as well. If you’re having if you’re overwhelmed, and you’re having a sticking point great to reach out, if not just try applying this information, we want to really help as many people as possible. And we know we’re going to help many more people than we actually see in person with this information. So just make sure you’re applying it. And if you are enjoying it, share it with family and friends that could also benefit put your comments down below. Let me know the best part that you liked about this what resonate with you the most. And give us a like and share as well. We appreciate it.

Evan Brand: Yeah, and if you’re on the apple listening, if you’re on your Apple podcast app or Stitcher or wherever else, give us some stars, let us know what you think the show deserves between us both we have I lost count, but it was somewhere over 705 star reviews for our podcast in between our various feeds. So please give us some stars. Give us some sentences give us a blurb on whether you still call it iTunes or Apple podcast. We’d love to beat out people that are not clinically oriented. There’s still like top health podcast out there that it’s just theory theory theory theory. And then we have to like recalibrate people’s theories because they’re not clinically based. So we would love to beat those people. How do we beat those Before we go higher in the charts, how do we do that? With your reviews! So we have a some stars. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Thanks to all you guys have a phenomenal day. Take careDr. Justin Marchegiani  

Hey guys, it’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani here. Today’s podcast is we’re going to be talking about the top five nutrients to address gut inflammation, and leaky gut or gut permeability. So this is a topic that’s pertinent to a lot of our patients as gut inflammation, there’s usually some component in why they’re not feeling good. So I’m really excited to address this today with Evan, we’re gonna dive into the things that we do clinically, the things that work with our patients, the things that actually get results, we’ll break it down, and we’ll kind of give you guys some action items for today as well. And what’s cooking man? How are we doing?

Evan Brand: Hey, you’re doing really well. And you know, we always come up with a title. And then we over deliver on that title. So we’re calling this something along the lines of top five nutrients to help your gut or to heal your gut or support intestinal permeability, but maybe we end up going over five. So I’m just gonna go straight to my favorite because it’s so easy. It’s so broad spectrum in its use. And it’s so safe for people across the board to use it, whether it’s kids, adults, the elderly population, even people that don’t have testing, you know, our philosophy is test don’t guess we want to have the data, we want to have good stool testing, and good organic acids testing to look into the gut deeper and figure out what’s going on under the hood. But there is usually a three, sometimes four week timeline between talking with a client or a new patient and then getting the test results. So what do we do to help these people in that in between time before we can do the real work based on the data, I’d say my favorite is probably aloe, and specifically you and I use an aloe extract. It’s a 200 to one, so it’s 200 pounds of gel converted to one pound of extract, and then that’s encapsulated. We had a young boy, not super young, maybe 16 17. But he was diagnosed with autoimmune gut issues, Crohn’s all sort of colitis, actually pan colitis where the whole digestive tract was affected major bleeding in the store. We got him on simply a 200 to one extract of aloe. And within three weeks, we did a new gi map stool test, and we dropped his calprotectin levels, which is his gut inflammation by 1000 points, just by aloe alone.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Unbelievable. Yeah, it’s powerful what nutrients can do now I always tell patients, if you’re trying to come in and make some changes out of the gates, I mean, your best bang for your buck would be fixing the food, because the food is constantly getting your body getting your gut in flames. So the first thing we can do is look at the the the inflammatory food that could be coming in this could be gluten or other technically gluten free grains like corn, oat, rice, those kinds of things. So you want to really get the grains out, you want to really get a lot of the poly polyunsaturated omega six vegetable oils. And again, the reason why vegetable oils tend to be more, let’s say poor is because they’re highly processed to extract the fat. And the processing actually damages the fat and creates free radical stress within those fats. Because the more you take in damaged fats, your body has to utilize antioxidants to stabilize the fats. So they don’t create free radicals. And so it depletes a lot of your antioxidants. And then those fast take on and become part of your cell membrane. And to have healthy cells you have to have good membrane. Because the membrane essentially is the brain of your cell. It provides a lot of good cellular communication happens with the membrane. So if you have junky fats, whether it’s omega six junky fats, or trans fats like hydrogenated soybean oil, right, those kinds of things, canola, you know, safflower, those are going to be more junky omega six, and they’re going to really not make the healthiest cell membranes, they’re going to deplete your antioxidant reserves. And if they’re on the trans fat side, they’ll make your cell membranes very inflexible too.

Evan Brand: Yeah, good point. And I apologize for skipping over the diet piece, you know, you think of the typical American person, they think, just give me the pill. Give me the magic remedy. So we’ll talk about some of those remedies. But yeah, you make a great point, you can’t go out to Pizza Hut for dinner, and then just take an aloe capsule, and everything’s going to be okay. Correct.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. So that’s it’s good to look at the foundation out of the gates. I’d also say like, I’ll just kind of put this next category into a broad category and just say, amino acids. And these amino acids could be things like an acetylglucosamine, NaG that could be things like glycine, which are going to be very high in collagen or bone broth. And they could also be things like glutamine, so I kind of put these in the amino acid bucket, when they tend to be very good support for the entire sites of the gut lining, that can be used as fuel for the gut lining, they also can help with gut permeability. And, and glycine is a really good backbone for connective tissue. So it can be very helpful for that lot of that connective tissue healing out of the gates.

Evan Brand: So how about enzymes? When you hear nutrients to heal the gut or support the gut, you don’t necessarily think about enzymes, you think of more like you mentioned, the glutamine, Aloe, the kind of calming, soothing things, but I would argue enzymes have a role in helping with reducing gut inflammation simply by improving digestion and reducing the putrifying and fermenting of foods because I know my gut was Super inflamed. If I look back at some of my original stool tests, when I had gut infections, yes, I was doing things to soothe my gut, but simply just treated, the infections alone got the inflammation down. And part of that process of treating the infections was using enzymes, because my digestion was so terrible, I would get exhausted after a meal. And that was a sign that I had low stomach acid. So I would say the enzyme should be on our list here, because so many people do to age due to stress. Maybe you’re eating in a loud restaurant, like you’re on your lunch break for work, and you’re listening to us or there’s music, boom, boom, boom in the background, and you’re sympathetically stressed while you’re eating enzymes, to me would be a good insurance policy to help break down your foods and then therefore reduce inflammation.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, foods are not broken down properly, they’re going to sit, they’re going to ferment, they’re going to purify, they’re going to read certify also, those foods are more likely to create hydrogen and methane gases because they’re fermenting, and those gases can throw off your motility, motility and how you move the bowels. And if the bowels are one too short, or should take too fast on the diarrhea side, you may not absorb those nutrients well. And if they’re too long, on the conservation side, you may reabsorb fecal toxins. And so you know, long or short on the bowel motility can definitely affect absorption or create more toxins in the body. So I think that’s a big one. And then just kind of connecting the enzymes and we could throw HCl in there too, because HCl helps activate enzymes, I would say chewing, chewing and and really just the mastication and healthy eating habits because chewing your food up really fine, allows more surface area for those enzymes and acids to work. So you can have a good amount of enzymes or acids, you only have a couple of chews. you swallow your food, those enzymes and acids aren’t gonna work as good as you really chew it up, you know, 30 to choose one chew per tooth, you know, ideally like an oatmeal like consistencies and allow those enzymes and acids to work better.

Evan Brand: Yeah, I’m 18th down. So I guess I get off the hook with 32. You know, I have my wisdom teeth and my 12 year molders out so.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, yeah, there you go. I mean, I have my wisdom teeth out as well. So I’m kind of at 28 as well. So I get it. So let’s just say 30 plus or minus a couple.

Evan Brand: It’s hard. I’ve tried to do that I’ve tried to do that many choose, oh man, my jaw gets tired. So and that’s the that’s the problem too, that we have with our food is like you go to Chipotle, a for example. Everything’s really soft. Like if you get rice if you get like carnitas. Or if you get the chicken, you barely have to chew it. It’s almost like mush. So I try to personally seek out occasionally I will seek out whether it’s like beef jerky, or no bison jerky or even just a steak, you know, I try to really get something that works my job because I just feel like in America, our food is so soft and easily digestible, that we don’t have to really chew anymore.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, so if you have a nice steak or a nice whole chicken, just make sure you chew it up. Same thing goes with over hydrating, you know, try to get your first thing I do is and I get to go eat a meal, I kind of go to the reverse osmosis filter, get a nice big glass of water to add some minerals, one, two, and then I get my meal going that way it gives me 10 15 minutes or so for everything to absorb. And of course the colder the water you got to take a little bit longer because your body holds that water in your stomach, heats it up to about room temperature and then passes it through. So the colder that water is, the longer you should wait in between the meal

About mushrooms. This is something that you know, just doing a little bit of research before we hit record, that this is something that I don’t necessarily go to right out of the gate but I’ve been using mushrooms for a long time. I know you and I personally have been taking mushrooms for a long time. And it turns out that for example, Lion’s Mane mushroom has some really, I would say probably just as impressive as some of the other herbs you’re mentioning, whether it’s like dgl, licorice or marshmallow kind of the conventional gut healing ones. Lion’s Mane has some really awesome anti inflammatory properties. There were two papers that we had found here on Lion’s Mane mushroom being shown to protect from and shrink gastric ulcers. Also, Lion’s Mane was shown to significantly improve symptoms of two major inflammatory disorders of the digestive system. And so that’s cool, because normally we’re using Lion’s Mane for cognitive problems. I know for me, my brain is much more clear. I’ve got Lion’s Mane mushroom in my system right now. I took two capsules this morning, and I certainly feel it mentally. But I did not even think that I was feeling it in my gut. So that’s cool.

Totally. Yeah, that gets really important. Again, a lot of gut issues, the immune system can be a big player at it. And so of course, if you’re able to modulate the immune system with the medicinal mushrooms, or immunogenic compounds that are going to be in those mushrooms, whether it’s beta one, three, D glucan, whatever that is, it could have an effect on gut permeability and improving digestion. I think all that’s very, very important. Also, just kind of one pet peeve of mine. Someone in the comments was chatting about this. A lot of people when they talk about leaky gut, they talk about leaky gut like like it’s the cause of Problem. leaky gut is the effects of on what’s happening with the gut. So the more inflamed you are, the more you’re not breaking down your food. The more crappy The food is, the more inflammatory The food is, the more dysbiosis we have, the the lack of certain nutrients we have, the more stress we are right. All that then creates and increases the chance of gut permeability. Gut permeability isn’t the cause unto itself. It’s the effects of a lot of other issues happening. So when people talk about Oh, you gotta fix the leaky gut. It’s like, not necessarily, you know, it’s like, it’s like saying, Oh, we have to fix. Imagine you have a leak in your roof and the waters pulling on the carpet below you. So we got to fix that water on the floor. It’s like, No, no, you fix the hole in the roof. And again, it may be semantics, but we got to call a spade a spade. If the water’s coming into the roof, you talk to them, we got to fix the hole in the roof. You don’t say we fixed the the water on the ground, right? So I just want everyone I want to train everyone to kind of get thinking about things from a root cause standpoint, versus labeling the damage at the end result conventional medicines really good at labeling damage down here and not talking about the effects of top that should the cause up top there labeling the effects down here. So we want to go root cause?

Yeah, that’s great. And I’m sure we could come up with other analogies on it. But that makes a lot of sense. It’s kind of like, okay, we need to come in with the towel. Oh, no. Now we have this super absorbent towel, this towel is going to absorb 1000 times more water on your floor than any other towel. And then yes, this, this carpet is mold resistant. So if you use this carpet, that water in your carpet won’t create mold, but you’re still missing the frickin hole in the roof roof.

Exactly, exactly. So we just got to really be on top of that. Make sure everyone’s thinking root cause I think that’s really helpful.

Well, let’s call it out. Let’s call out why that happens, though. It’s simply money. And it’s the supplement industry. There’s a lot of money. Yeah, it’s marketing. There’s a lot of money made on leaky gut this and this leaky gut book and this leaky gut protocol and this leaky gut practitioner. The problem is you could take all these leaky gut support for a decade and never treat the infections like if you just went and did like you mentioned glutamine, and we hit the zinc carnosine and the dgl. And we did the aloe, like we talked about in the beginning, none of those are going to erase a blastocyst is hominis, parasite infection, none of those are going to get rid of Giardia. None of those are going to treat the H pylori, they may help. But they’re definitely not going to eradicate the issue causing the leaky gut in the first place. So that’s just marketing. It’s money involved in this. And, you know, as practitioners, I think it’s really smart of you to call it out like that, because it’s, it is frustrating for us because we’ll look on a new client or new patients intake form. And they’ll be taking all these quote leaky gut supplements. Yeah, I found this leaky gut protocol online, and I still have all these digestive problems. And it’s like, well, yeah, look at your stool test, you have all these issues. And you could do that for 20 years and never fix it. So I could rant on that all day.

Yeah, other thing I would just say out of the gates is it’s okay to palliative Li support the leaky gut, we just have to make sure when you’re palliative Li supporting something we’re also root cause supporting it as well root cause fixing it. Palliative support, totally fine, right. Nothing wrong with that we just got to call a spade a spade and and not pretend the palliative leaky gut support is root cause support. Yeah, long as we can do that, then I think we’re pretty good. Next thing I would highlight out of the gates and you see this herb being listed as being very helpful for the gut permeability, but it’s also very helpful on the adrenal. So that’s licorice. And so when we use licorice is a lot of licorice being used in leaky gut supports. That’s that’s d glycerides. And this is the glycerides component of the licorice is pulled out. And the glycerides component of a licorice is is the component that slows the breakdown of cortisol, I think it’s the 11 beta hydroxy steroid dehydrogenase to enzyme. The licorice inhibits that enzyme. That’s the enzyme that helps break down cortisol. So we know cortisol too low, we need healthy levels of cortisol to actually build up the gut lining. It helps with building up the gut lining. Of course, if our cortisol levels are too high, and we’re chronically stressed, right, that can also break down the gut lining. We know that with people that are chronically stressed getting ulcers, right, we know that as well. And so when we look at licorice, it really helps with cortisol improvement. So if we do a cortisol test, and we see chronically low cortisol, that can actually help with the gut lining with the mucosa with the stomach with the duodenum. And that can actually help with the cortisol bringing that back up. And that can help build back up that gut lining. And so we like licorice, that’s non diglycerides for the gut and Nanda glycerides licorice, we give it typically orally sublingually, to our patients, that will eventually trickle downstream to the gut as well. And so licorice can be a powerful thing. You just have to be careful if you’re giving a non diglycerides version that people that have already higher level of cortisol, that may make things worse. So we just got to make sure we’re testing that to know what kind of pattern we’re seeing.

Yeah, that’s a good point. So we could do a whole part two on that. If you want. Give us some feedback. Like maybe the gut hormone connection. And we could hit that in detail. But yeah, you highlighted a very important point, which is that cortisol is involved with this whole process. And it really is a Goldilocks zone. If you have too little cortisol, you’re exhausted. And you’re probably going to be dependent on stimulants and caffeine and sugar and things that are going to damage your gut. But then simply, you don’t have enough to build up the gut. And then if you have too much, now you’re catabolic, you’re breaking down your muscle tissue, and you’re breaking down your gut barrier. That’s probably part of the reason that I lost a lot of weight and a lot of muscle. When I first moved to Texas, I had gut infections, and I was incredibly stressed, just moving and leaving my family behind, you know, emotional stuff, homesickness gut infections, I had the perfect storm to tear up my gut. So I can tell you firsthand that adrenal supports did help. And that was probably because it was helping regulate the cortisol levels, which then in turn, took the load off my gut, so to speak.

100% Yeah, I like that. And so it’s good to really make sure that’s under control. 

Evan Brand: How about probiotics? I think it’s worth mentioning. These are totally valuable tools that can help regulate histamine. Yeah, and regulate bacteria with it. So let’s dive into that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, so you have to you I said you have three to four big families. Okay. So you typically have your lactobacillus and bifidobacterium, which are typically come together and usually a good high quality broad spectrum probiotic. So my line we have one called profile, Florida doesn’t have a lot of the different lactobacillus whether it’s kci acidophilus Bulgaria’s brevis, rhamnosus. And then of course, you have a lot of the bifidobacterium whether it’s bifidobacterium, bifidum, longum, brevis, right. So those are your broad spectrum lactobacillus or bifidobacterium. Probiotics, lots of good data, lots of good research anywhere from food poisoning for inflammation reduction, gut permeability reduction. nutrient absorption is all kinds of different studies connecting the dots on those so that’s kind of the bifidobacteria, lactobacillus Of course, we have more of our spore based or soil based probiotics. These are going to be a lot of your bacillus strains, right, whether it’s bacillus, subtlest class ei coagulans, like Informix, right. These are the bacillus strains. These are really good if you are very much cebo sensitive, fodmap sensitive, we may use some of these over a bifido lactobacillus species. And then of course, I’m a big fan of the probiotic that’s kind of more of a beneficial yeast called Saccharomyces boulardii in my lammie, one called sacral flora, again, we’ll put the links below for for all y’all so if you want to see it, we’ll put the links below sacral Flora Saccharomyces boulardii is very helpful a lot of studies on it, helping to improve immunity in the gut IGA IGA levels going to get low and just gut inflammation or gut stress. Of course, it’s going to help with food poisoning a lot of studies on it helping with H. pylori, C. diff, Clostridium difficile, blastocystis hominess. It also helps crowd out yeast and Candida so there’s a lot of excellent benefits with saccharomyces we love it and it’s usually going to be a core part of my probiotic, my fifth r which is repopulation re inoculation on the good healthy probiotics, once the fourth hour is done right fourth hours and to be removing the gut bugs removing the gut infections. Fifth hour, we come in repopulate re inoculate with good bacteria. Most people kind of sweet they want to start probiotics sooner, and that may not be the best step. Not saying it may not help. But some people have just found one that’s just a lot of pills. And two, if they have a lot of bad bugs in there. It’s like going and getting a whole bunch of good fresh grass seeds throw down on a lawn full of weeds, right? You got to get the weeds done before we throw down the seeds right got to get the car washed or we get waxed.

Evan Brand: Kind of like that. Yeah, we had a lot of good feedback on the podcast we did remember we were talking about probiotics and how a lot of new research is showing probiotics are being used to help with getting out mycotoxins and we know that mold toxins damage the gut. So yes, so I have been I’ve honestly been working in probiotics into the protocol sooner and most people do well. There are some like you said that just don’t you got to pull the weeds before you throw the seeds. But there are a lot of people doing really good with throwing probiotics and sooner in the protocols now. So like you said, if they can handle the amount of pills, maybe we try to sneak one or two in or we could do like powdered versions, typically, it’s like a quarter teaspoon, we could throw in a blend like that sack be you could you could do powder and maybe throw it in a smoothie or something. So we are trying to integrate those a lot. And I’ve had amazing success personally with probiotics. So I think it’s interesting, there’s still a lot of people that poopoo probiotic probiotics I know you and I we kind of get, you know, so caught up in the clinical trenches that we may miss some things, but I do get a couple of emails, you know, here and there from from people, clients sending them like, hey, this guy like says probiotics are a waste of money, and you know, that they don’t work. And I would just say that’s not true. We have so much clinical data personally.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s all about context, right? It’s like if someone comes in, they have chronic gut issues, and they’re just taking a probiotic thinking that that’s going to be the answer to their gut problems. It’s probably not right, and that’s where we’re trying to have a comprehensive functional medicine plan. That’s root cause and not just trying to Pro supplements at the wall thinking that that’s going to fix it. So yeah, I understand if that you know where that person is coming up with that, that bias that biases from not having a comprehensive root cause plan with a functional medicine practitioner, they’re just trying to throw stuff at them instead it hoping it will fix the symptoms, not fix the root cause.

Well, here’s Yeah, good, good point. Here’s the other thing, too, it’s even some probiotic companies will say that about other companies, it’s more of a marketing thing like, hey, their probiotic is crap, or it doesn’t work because of X, Y, or Z. But I will just say with what you and I use, clinically, we’re using professional supplement manufacturers exclusive only to health care providers. And a lot of the stuff we use, we have extended release technology. So when arguments like probiotics are going to die in the stomach, they’re not even going to make it to where they need to. But a lot of the new technology we use, they’re not even going to break open, they’re going to be resistant to the stomach acid. So that’s another problem too, when you hear these little like, super sometimes buzzworthy type articles. It’s not taking into consideration the quality, the quantity, the purity, the potency, the technology involved, it’s like probiotics, they get the label, and then that’s it. And that’s just not a fair classification.

Correct. And then also consumer reports that a study on probiotics a couple years back maybe 5 10 years ago. And what they found is most probiotics that they put a number on the outside of the bottle, hey, this is how many colony forming units. And what a lot of the cheap companies do is they say, Okay, this is how many should have been in this probiotic at manufacturing of this product. Let’s say it’s 20 billion. Now, what the professional companies do is, right, when you’re buying high quality, professional ingredients, they’re gonna say this is how many colony forming units should be in this capsule at expiration. And so you’re looking at something like two to three times the amount of those that species that CFU on the bottle colony forming units, is going to be typically in there. So when you see like, in my probiotic, I think it’s 40 billion per two capsules, right? That’s going to be what’s in there two years from now at expiration, right? And so obviously, it’s going to be two to three times the amount of that before. And so you want to use professional companies. So what you see on the label is always worst case, scenario, number one, and then also how products are stored by professional companies is very important. So like, where we have our warehouses, like everything is stored in an air conditioned or a refrigerated environment for a lot of our probiotics, some don’t necessarily need that. But which we value, the the scenario and how that store because that really increases potency, too.

Evan Brand: Yeah. And the funny thing is, too, we’ve seen some papers on supposedly expiration dates, you know, this is something that you and I are forced to do with the professional companies we work with. But you know, we’ve seen some research on supplements from 2030 years ago, still being viable, meaning they still had some potency and purity to them. And obviously, they still had a biological effect. So to me, I would if I had to pick like a consumer shelf bought probiotic, or a suppose that expired professional product, I’m going to go for the supposedly expired product, I’d go for a five year old professional probiotic, then, you know, on the shelf today consumer level.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, exactly. And also a lot of the probiotics or supplements that require refrigeration on the warehousing side, a lot of times you’re just not going to get that on Amazon, you’re not going to get that level of specificity just because that’s not how their warehouses are set up. And so with ours, we make sure that that refrigeration components is there because we’re working with patients and we need we need that potency, because we’re trying to get clinical outcomes, right. We’re trying to sell and provide a clinical outcome for the patient. And if we’re just providing products that aren’t meeting that standard, we’re not going to win. And of course, we want to be successful on that front.

Evan Brand: Yeah, yeah. Well say Well, I think we covered a lot of it. So the mushrooms are beneficial Lion’s Mane the mushroom is amazing for the brain, but for the gut also Chaga mushroom would be great reishi mushroom could also deserve a good mention, you hit upon the amino acids. So the glutamine or the various types of glucose amines involved. We love amino acids, we use those all the time you mentioned like collagen also being you know, part of that makeup, we hit on some of the herbs like the the licorice, or the dgl version of it, the marshmallow, we like to use a lot, we hit upon the aloe, and then we hit the probiotics, I think those are the big categories. And then the enzymes we hit that too.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think we did a really good job hitting a couple and I just I really want to plug in concepts, right? Like a lot of people, they just try to throw information at people and and try to memorize that. I think that’s not beneficial. But if you can just understand concepts, right? A concept is just something that sticks. You either get it or you don’t. And so we try to use a lot of analogies and understand we try to plug in a lot of the concepts of root cause versus palliative cause. We try to get you to think about, hey, if this helps, why does it help? is it just an anti inflammatory? is it helping just improve better digestion? is it helping your immune system? is it helping your adrenals and helping you that your body’s natural process to build back up that gut lining? What’s the underlying mechanisms if you understand that, then you see how it plugs into the greater matrix of healing.

Evan Brand: Yeah, I mean, I agree 1,000%. So, I think the big concept of today is Yes, here are some things here are some nutrients you can use. However, we really want to make sure you’re testing, not guessing. So if you do need the aloe to calm the gut for now, you need the enzymes to help improve digestion. For now, you notice that HCl is helping with your heartburn or you notice that the enzymes are reducing your bloating, or your burping or your gas. Great, but what led to all that in the first place? What led you to need the aloe because you had gut inflammation, what led you to need the enzymes, that’s where somebody like us can come in and help you figure that out and plot it on paper. And, you know, we’ve been through the trenches personally. And clinically, we’re always improving upon herself. You know, I work on my children, I know you work on your children, we’re giving our kids things to help their guts, I mean, so this is like a, there’s no finish line, I don’t want people to think, Hey, I just do this aloe for a month, and then I’m done. You know, there’s not a finish line with the gut, we’re constantly being exposed to new toxins and new pathogens. We’ve even seen with the virus that’s been going around a lot of issues with the gut there, we’ve seen a lot of issue with tissue destruction in the intestinal tract. So who knows? Right now with the 5 10 year outlook of the GI health in the US is right now, our guts are notoriously bad, due to glyphosate and other things, damaging them. So just a quick note, you kind of started with the diet all and with the diet 100% organic is important, if you’re going to go buy all these probiotics, but yet, you’re going to eat strawberries with an average of 22 pesticides on them. If they’re not organic, you’re wasting your frickin time and your money because we know all those pesticides are just killing the beneficial bacteria in your gut that you’re trying to re inoculate or repopulate with. So please go organic, you know, before you spend money on probiotics.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. And then also how long do these probiotic strains last in your gut, I mean, a lot of times, you’re going to see the data show in about one month or so. So that they don’t stay forever. So when you take a probiotic, it’s not like it’s there forever. So it’ll it’ll hang around typically for a month, it’ll help with a nutrient synthesis, it’ll help with nutrient absorption, it’ll help with inflammation, modulating the immune system, there’s some data that maybe the spore based probiotics hang around a little bit longer, and they may help proliferate the growth of other beneficial species. So just think when you take a probiotic, it’s not forever. Now the goal is that we’re getting some level of fermentable foods in your diet, whether it’s from sauerkraut, or low sugar kombucha, or some kind of fermented pickle or something, or, you know, cultured coconut milk or potentially high quality raw milk if you can tolerate it. So you know, that’s typically how we’re getting exposed to probiotics more on a day in weekend kind of situation. If you’re someone that can’t get that level of exposure with fermented oils from food, then you probably want to be on a probiotic a little bit more frequently, if you’re not getting those fermentable. So we just got to plug and play where we’re at. I think our ancestors probably did more fermentable foods, which is ideal. But if we can’t we plug in a good quality probiotic, or at least throw in something every couple of months, just to kind of fill in the gap to make sure we’re getting exposed to those good for mandibles.

Evan Brand: Yeah, great point, I just want to highlight what you said too, which is like your gut bacteria are actually going to help you with your health in other ways. So once gut bacteria optimize your healing the gut, you’re making neurotransmitters the way you should you’re making serotonin, you’re making things to improve yourself, you’re making B vitamins to help your energy and your mitochondria. So this is why I really the gut, I mean, we just we can’t stop talking about it because it literally is the foundation.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. So just kind of want to make sure that is understood. And that makes sense for everyone. We’ll put a list of recommended products down below. So you guys have access to those you want to support us support the show, we appreciate it put those down below. Also, if you guys want to reach out to Evan brand, head over to EvanBrand.com, Evan is there for you guys worldwide. And again, I’m there for you as well, justinhealth.com, Dr. J myself, there’ll be a little link button, you guys can click and reach out to us we are available worldwide to help you guys help you help support y’all. We want to make sure they have the support you need. And you have a good comprehensive plan to get what’s going in the right direction if you’re not having success. And then also just try to apply one thing today as well. If you’re having if you’re overwhelmed, and you’re having a sticking point great to reach out, if not just try applying this information, we want to really help as many people as possible. And we know we’re going to help many more people than we actually see in person with this information. So just make sure you’re applying it. And if you are enjoying it, share it with family and friends that could also benefit put your comments down below. Let me know the best part that you liked about this what resonate with you the most. And give us a like and share as well. We appreciate it.

Evan Brand: Yeah, and if you’re on the apple listening, if you’re on your Apple podcast app or Stitcher or wherever else, give us some stars, let us know what you think the show deserves between us both we have I lost count, but it was somewhere over 705 star reviews for our podcast in between our various feeds. So please give us some stars. Give us some sentences give us a blurb on whether you still call it iTunes or Apple podcast. We’d love to beat out people that are not clinically oriented. There’s still like top health podcast out there that it’s just theory theory theory theory. And then we have to like recalibrate people’s theories because they’re not clinically based. So we would love to beat those people. How do we beat those Before we go higher in the charts, how do we do that? With your reviews! So we have a some stars. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Thanks to all you guys have a phenomenal day. Take care.


References:

https://justinhealth.com/

https://www.evanbrand.com/

Audio Podcast:

https://justinhealth.libsyn.com/the-top-5-nutrients-to-address-gut-inflammation-and-leaky-gut-podcast-339

Recommended products:

Amino Acid Supreme

TRruKeto Collagen

TRUCOLLAGEN (Grassfed)

Probio Flora

Enzyme Synergy

Betaine HCL Supreme

Genova NutErval

 

The Top 5 Common Digestive Supplement Mistake – HCL, Enzymes and Bile Support | Podcast #338

As a functional medicine practitioner, Dr. J and Evan Brand see many clients who take dietary supplements regularly. But, as simple as it sounds, supplementing can confuse—and people often make mistakes. Do you think you’re taking all the proper nutrients and that you’re taking them the appropriate way? Let’s learn some common errors people make:

Dr. J highly recommends that you avoid having the symptoms cured rather than the source. Don’t just accept your signs and symptoms as usual; consult your doctor and express your concerns. Your doctor may advise you to do diet modifications and have yourself tested to find out the root cause and fix it. Also, watch out for over stressing. Stress can affect your decision-making and as well as your gut health. Another reason can be chewing your food too quickly that makes your digestive system suffer, inadequate water intake, or very few fibers in your diet.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

In this podcast, we cover:

0:36    Common Mistakes in Using Digestive Support

12:03   Healing Gut Lining

15:39   Sex Drive and Libido Effects

17:59   Bile Support

21:48   Higher Fat Diets

25:09   Cooking our Food

31:04   Food Quality

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Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We are live, it’s Dr. J here in the house with Evan Brand. Today, we are going to be talking about the top five common mistakes. When using digestive support. Again, we’re in the trenches with patients every week from all over the world. And this is a common issue that we see is people are not using digestive support correctly. And if we don’t break down our food, if we don’t emulsify it, break it down, utilize it absorb it, we’re not going to get the nutrients from that meal. So it’s not a given that we’re eating good food, we have to go through good digestive processes to get those nutrients and to decrease stress in our gut. So I’m really excited to dive in today’s topic on that.

Evan Brand: Yeah, me too. So I mean, I was doing digestive enzymes when I still had gut infections. So I know we put together a list here, and I’m gonna just go straight to the one that was a little lower down the list, which was, I think, possibly one of the big smoking guns for a lot of people is, and I technically should have written in our notes, not testing. My note was not addressing infections and how not addressing your gut infections leads to digestive problems, because if you’re someone who’s taking supplemental acids and enzymes, but you haven’t tested or treated yourself for parasites or worms, or H pylori, bacterial overgrowth, fungal overgrowth, mold colonization, you’re gonna have very limited results with your enzyme, enzymes and acids. So for me, I did that mistake. I just had high quality enzymes. I was taking those but yet I still had diarrhea and other gi issues years ago, because I had parasites, and I hadn’t tested or treated those. So that’s to me, I think the big one because people will go to Whole Foods or wherever, hopefully, they’ll buy from us because it’s professional quality, but they’ll buy enzymes take it and then they still have gi issues. They’re like, well, what the heck, I thought the enzymes were supposed to fix it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and I see that we see that all the time. Now the question is, why is that happening? So let’s go over some of the bugs and some of the reasons why that may happen. So first off, h pylori is a super common one h pylori is a bacteria that resides primarily in the stomach, you can also go a little bit into the small intestine, and H. pylori is going to produce an enzyme called urease. And urease is going to take protein from you know, which is the protein metabolite urea and it’s going to convert it into ammonia and co2. And so on a positive H. pylori breath test, we’re gonna see elevations in co2 after you swallow the urea from the breath test, and you’re also going to see a lot of ammonia. Now ammonia has got a pH of 11. And so that’s more on the alkaline side, so your guts only a two or three on the pH. So that can start to alkalize the gut and maybe throw off the digestive capacity because we need that nice that nice low pH helps activate enzymes and acids. Well, it actually activates more of the enzymes that can be pepsin, various proteolytic enzymes, and it sets the table for the pancreas and the gallbladder to produce more enzymes, lipase bile, when we get into the small intestine, so the acidity in the pH sets the deck it sets the domino rally, so digestion works downstream and so, infections like H. pylori can cause problems infections like cebo can also cause problems. SIBO is notorious for making it harder for that esophageal sphincter to close and so that esophageal sphincter can’t close is prone, you have proneness to having that acid rise up and burn your esophagus, right? Those are all potential problems. Also, any stressor or infection, whether it’s H. pylori SIBO, which is small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, or it could even be something like a parasite, these infections are going to create sympathetic nervous system stress. And so the more your nervous system is over stressed that sympathetic nervous system that fight or flight tone is being stimulated. What’s going to happen is that fight or flight is going to take digestive enzymes and acids, it’s going to reduce them, it’s gonna start shunting. A lot of the digestive secretions and the blood flow away from the blood away from the stomach and the core and to the hands and the feet to run, fight and flee because our body is trying to move blood and move resources to the areas that are most metabolically high and expenditure. And in a fight or flight circumstance, that’s going to be the extremities fighting, fleeing, running, and our bodies prehistorically driven that way, because you don’t want to be hungry. When you’re running. You don’t want to think about digestion, you want to be focused on getting away or fighting. And that blood has to carry oxygen so these muscles can work. And so that blood moves away from the intestines. And that’s part of the reason why these infections can really throw off your body, they can really increase that sympathetic nervous system and take away from that vagal tone vagas nerve, parasympathetic nervous system response.

Evan Brand: Yeah, I can totally relate. I mean, when I had infections, I was anxious, but I had nausea and I had no appetite. So I would sit down. I remember like yesterday when I was down in Austin, I would sit down at the dinner table. I just cooked an amazing bison steak and maybe I had some veggies with it. I remember looking at the plate and going Ah, I just can’t do it. And some of that was the infections But some of it was the stress from the infections. And some people, they’ll kind of demonize meats and say, Well, I don’t feel good. Like I just can’t do the meat. It’s not the meat in general. That’s the problem. It’s the infections, damaging the parietal cells, reducing the stomach acid, it’s turning that digestive fire back on, that’s really going to help you feel good with those meats. So I, it’s sad because people get scared away from the meat. But in reality, it’s some of these root causes that we’re talking about. And then you hit on this kind of primal response. This is totally normal, by the way, but it’s not normal in our chronic stress lifestyle. So occasionally, if we were stressed, it’d be great. Like you said, turn off the digestive system. So we can run. But the problem is, we’re are we’re always stressed. Now. We’ve never as humans, we’ve never experienced this level of chronic, ongoing stress. I mean, I pull my audience all the time, I’ll do a little polls on my Instagram page and ask people like how you’re feeling. Everybody’s stressed. Everybody’s overworked, everybody’s burned out. So this is an epidemic problem. This is not like a one off thing. This is everywhere. And I think we could transition now if you’re ready. And we could talk about how too much or too little HCl when you’re trying to get this digestive fire back on, there is kind of a sweet spot, and it’s going to depend on the people, it’s going to depend on gut inflammation, maybe diet, infections, and then let me just bring up before I forget, these infections are very contagious. So if you do have h pylori, it’s very probable that your spouse is infected as well. So if you’re someone working on your gut, and you’re not working on your significant others gut, you probably need to whether you’re running testing, or maybe you’re guessing and checking, which is not as wise, but we’ll see a husband or a wife come in to work with us clinically, they have good results and then two to three months later they go backwards. That’s often because the the infection came back due to the significant other and this could even be from children as well or even dogs. Like if you got a dog with h pylori, you’re playing with a slobbery toy, you’re throwing the slobbery toy there Nope, you pick your nose, you bite your nails, whatever boom, you could get, you know, exposed to the vectors that way too.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% So with the too much and too little HCl, some people their gut lining is so inflamed, they have atrophic gastritis, meaning that gut lining has gotten really thin. And they may not be able to handle much HCl, even though they need HCl, they may not be able to handle it and that becomes dicey. So it’s all about helping people where they’re at, even though they need something, if they can’t receive it, then we need a backup plan. And so you got to know what people are at. And so some people, their digestive system, or symptoms actually get better. With more HCl, even though their gut has a lot of problems, they have a lot of inflammation. Some people their gut lining integrity can still deal with the HCl when you start adding HCl. And it’s like they start getting better and you’re like, but your guts so inflamed, how were you able to receive it, but then patient a over here couldn’t receive it. So everyone’s a little bit different. And so if we’re going to try HCl, I mean, ideally, don’t try it. If you know there’s any alterations, coughing up blood in the stool. I had one person though cut people who had alterations, though, did it and they’re like, it helped my issues, I felt so much better, and actually my ulcer stopped. Now, that may be the exception. I’m just kind of highlighting if you are that person, tread lightly work with a practitioner. And of course, all reactions are dose dependent. So if you’re going to test it, try the very smallest dose you possibly can maybe even a little bit of lemon juice, or apple cider vinegar and some water, dilute it down and then test it. And if you overdo it, you can always try a little bit of baking soda in water to kind of calm it down if you irritated it. But ideally, don’t do it unless you’re working with someone that’s helping you on the functional medicine side. And if you do it, make sure it’s dose dependent on that side.

Evan Brand: Yeah, good call. So just we’ll give a couple numbers. I think numbers are helpful. So if you’re working in HCl, I know you and I we have some professional manufacturers we work with we make our own line of digestive products. We go pretty conservative, like 200 milligrams of butane per capsule. So we could dose that as low as one cap 200 milligram, we could go up to 3 4 5 6. So you could go I’d say 200 on the low end up to I personally don’t see a need much beyond maybe a couple of grams, 2000 milligrams, and even that, to me is sometimes too high for certain people. I just don’t like to push it. I know you and I’ve talked about that test where people will take a ton of HCl until they get burning and then back down from that dose but I prefer not to poke the beehives I personally don’t do that with people.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So I will do that within five or six capsules. It depends if someone has a lot of digestive distress. You know, we’re typically not going to go that high, but usually within five or six capsules, that tends to be okay. And Dr. Jonathan Wright’s book, why you do stomach acid, he talks about, you know, being able to go up to four to five grams of HCl. And again, I typically wouldn’t do that if someone’s having any alterations or any incredible gastritis issues. Usually we’re going to test at a much smaller level than that and even with them, we’re still starting at maybe one capsule and we’re gently going up and up. For taking the digestive support in the middle of the meal, because if your guts Ron and flame just enough of that acid leaning on that gut lining directly isn’t to be a problem, at least if there’s some food down, then think of the Oreo cookie, right, you get the cream that you get the the frosting in the middle of the HCl is in the middle of all the food, and therefore the body tends to mix it up. And then when it starts moving throughout the intestinal tract with the throat, the stomach, it’s not going to be as intense at the tissue area. And so that tends to be very helpful. And I’ll typically, you know, try it within four or five capsules, see if we have an improvement. Some people do, I hear doctors doing that up to 1020 capsules. And that’s I think you’re just messing with trouble, you mess up a fire there because your body has to use bicarbonate and from the pancreas, to start to neutralize the acid from the stomach. So like that Domino rally of digestion, you have all this kind mixed up in your stomach, that kind is all the food with the acids and the enzymes that has to get released from the stomach down into the small intestine. And so it’s nice low pH once that goes into the small intestine, right the dwad, then we start making a whole bunch of bicarbonate to neutralize that. Now bile acid will also be produced bile acids still an acid it’s still a pH of around five or so. So it’s still on the acidic side. People have written in o bile acids. Well, it’s a it’s a p it’s a pH neutral. Well, you know, we’re talking bile acids. bile is made up of bile acids, cholesterol, a lot of different substances. So the bile acids are in their very nature by their name on the acidic side. So typically, your body’s trying to take that pH and bring it up to a neutral pH and the more you stress it with tons and tons of HCl, there’s a greater chance that your bicarbonate system may not be able to handle it from your pancreas. And you could develop a peptic ulcer. So we got to be careful with that. Try to use HCl within a reasonable range. And if you’re going to test it, you know, just be careful with it. Just be careful. Make sure you’re taking a look at your gut and making sure you’re you’re you’re knowing what your calprotectin levels are and you’re in you’re taking it the right way.

Evan Brand: That is like the pinnacle of edutainment right there that was so entertaining to listen to. I’m picturing all this going on in the system, I’m learning at the same time. This is why I love what we do. This is so fun. All right, let’s go to let’s go to number two here on our list, which is supporting or healing the gut lining and how that’s very important to do possibly even before you get to the digestive support. So you and I are seeing tons of people that usually have been to previous practitioners or doctors or naturopaths or whoever before us. And so maybe they have healed their gut somewhat already. Or maybe they’ve been wrecked because other practitioners did too much. Or they did too hardcore things. I had one lady who she got put on really high biofilm busting support right in the beginning, she got put on the interface plus from Claire labs, which we can and do you sometimes but man it wrecked her gut, her stomach was so wrong. We had to do almost six weeks of gut healing support before we could even bring it any other support. And and that’s kind of a reverse order thing. Because you and I talked about this idea of healing the gut after you treat the infections, but man, in her case, we couldn’t do that. So I’ve seen firsthand what can happen if you do too much biofilm support, you’re aggravating an aggravated system, it’s just not good.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. And that’s why if we’re having someone with an inflamed gut, one of the first things we’re going to be doing is trying to really dial in digestive nutrients to heal the gut lining. So we may be adding in things like dgl, licorice, aloe, slippery elm, sometimes we’re going to do a lot of zinc or zinc carnosine. A lot of studies on zinc, helping to decrease gut permeability, which is really important, decreasing gut inflammation, there’s studies on zinc showing the decreased calprotectin in the intestinal tract. So that’s wonderful, of course, l glutamine. If you’re very histamine sensitive or very inflamed, sometimes I’ll clue to me can go downstream to glutamic acid and glutamate, and you may have negative symptoms there. Again, typically, I don’t see that and so we don’t see that. I say 95% of the time, there’s no problem with that. But we want to be able to use other nutrients to calm down the gut, vitamin u, which is vitamin oltre. You see that in like a lot of okra, things like that. cabbage juice, I would say Allah we already mentioned. And then of course, there’s just good old fashioned bone broth, and collagen peptides which are very, very high in glycine. And glycine is very important building block for the entire sites that make up the gut lining the entire sites or little cells that that make up the tight junctions and the gut lining in the intestinal tract. And so they love, love, love glycine, and of course, that the same cells that are helping to build the intestinal tract, they also help with detoxification. glycine is a very important compound and toxification. So if you have a lot of gut inflammation, your body’s going to be using a lot of that glycine for healing, inflamed tissue and maybe not running the toxification. So that’s part of the reason why you can have detoxification problems, because your guts chronically inflamed, it’s sucking a lot of the resources Is that it may be using for detox.

Evan Brand: Wow. Yeah, that’s amazing. So there’s a lot of talk Stephanie sent off. And I know some others have talked about using glycine to help glyphosate detox. Yep. So that’s pretty interesting mechanism there, you’re saying that the system can’t focus on the detox. If it’s so focused on the gut damage.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: The body is always tending to deal with what the more acute matters. And if your guts Ron inflamed, it’s probably going to prioritize that over detoxification. And again, we don’t have like a test that to say that, we just kind of have common sense functional medicine, healing philosophy, the body’s always prioritizing stuff. And whatever the top stress is, the more apparent stresses, that’s where your body’s typically allocating resources.

Evan Brand: Yeah, and I don’t want to get too in the weeds on this, but I’ll just bring up an example of that, for example, sex drive and libido. When we see people that are chronically stressed and depleted, usually sex drive is going to go down or become non existent. I asked that question on my intake form is your libido adequate, and all the sick people know their libido is not adequate. And my interpretation of that is libido is really, a it’s a luxury to be able to do that. You’ve got to have some optimal things that happen. Obviously, there’s other mechanisms at play, but just at a simple basic level. You know, sex is a luxury when you’re running from a bear, you’re not going to, you know, be aroused if you’re running from a bear. And that bear could be your boss, or your spouse or your kids if they’re driving you crazy. And libido is like that, whatever. So that makes sense. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and if you just look at how the the nervous system allocates sexual energy, so typically foreplay, or just, you know, that intimacy that you’re going to have before ejaculation, or before an orgasm, that’s all parasympathetic. And so you need parasympathetic nervous system stimulation for, you know, the foreplay aspect of intimacy. And if the parasympathetic isn’t there, that’s where you see premature ejaculation, right? Because ejaculation or orgasm is sympathetic. And foreplay is parasympathetic. And so if you don’t have parasympathetic stimulation happening, because you’re so stressed or so inflamed, it, you know, that’s where premature ejaculation or just not even being able to rise to the occasion, if you catch my drift, because that parasympathetic nervous system response is so squashed.

Evan Brand: Yeah, this is a huge problem. I mean, I’ve seen 20 year old guys that are jumping on Coke, the little blue pill, and you’ve got all these websites now that are promoting like off the market Viagra. It’s like, what the heck, like we have like teenagers and 20 year olds now like carrying around that that you know, used to be like, when you know, high school is kind of the cool joke thing to have. But you got a condom in your wallet. Now, it’s like you have a condom and you have Viagra as a teenager?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I mean, that’s why you typically need a couple hours of stress free conversation and, and connection before before that kind of nervous system stimulation can happen. You can’t just go it’s harder to go into a stressful day, switch the switch. And then there you go. It’s just tough. That’s because of the nervous system. So we just got, we got to know that. 

Evan Brand: Give us your comments. Do you want a functional medicine, optimization of libido podcast? If so, let us know.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We’ll chat about that’s great. All right, I would say next thing we can kind of we talked about the gut lining support, let’s talk about bile support. So bile is really important for fat digestion. A lot of women are going to be affected by bile issues, because it’s very common women, when they’re 40s, they tend to get their gallbladder removed. It’s a common procedure, you have any upper right quadrant pain issues, boom, they’re taking out your gallbladder right away. And your gallbladder is part of what concentrates bile, your liver will make it and then it stores it in the gallbladder. And then it gets released. It very specific times via coli cystic keinen cck stimulation, and cck is going to be stimulated when you have a whole bunch of fat and protein going getting released from your stomach into the small intestine so that we get to release it. It happens at a very specific time. And it’s concentrated 15 to 20 times more than just what your liver would drip it in. Because when you don’t have a gallbladder just chatter dripping. And when it drips, you can you can have bile acid diarrhea. And so that’s where you have to use bile acid sequestering agents to kind of calm it down. And we got to put our bile in at the right time. And so we may have to take supplemental bile definitely for life that we don’t have a gallbladder. If we have biliary insufficiency, we’re going to have to be taken bio as well maybe extra lipase, which is a fat enzyme from the pancreas. But if we don’t break down that fat, you know, we’re gonna see our stool start to flow, we’re going to start to see, you know, St Mark’s skin marks on the toilet, see, because the fat is, is streaking, it’s not well absorbed. And then you’re also going to see a lot more excessive wipes when you go to the bathroom when you clean yourself because it’s just the fat is streaky, right, it’s it makes a big mess. And so we got to break down that fat adequately and then we may have to add extra bile into digestive support may have to add extra label lytic enzymes as well. Also, if you’re a female or even a male, high levels of estrogen is going to make your bile flow more stagnant. So if your bile flow is more stagnant, you’re not going to have good biliary output. And I would say last but not least, if if you’re one of those people that got thrown into a low fat diet Well, when you go low fat your gallbladder is not emptying because it’s the trigger for gallbladder emptying is coli cystic keinen from fat consumption. If your gallbladder is an empty, empty, what happens all that bile, it can start to form bile crystals. And those crystals are sharp. And when you finally do eat a little bit of fat, it’s like giving a hug to a porcupine. All right, it’s gonna be quite painful. And so imagine your gallbladder contracting on it’s like giving that porcupine a big hug and you’re going to inflame that gallbladder. And so chronic low fat diets with a punctuated higher fat meal, and also coming in there with estrogen dominance, a lot of detoxification issues, not clear handling estrogen, well, maybe having a lot of estrogen in your meats in your pesticides in your plastics goes for guys, too, that could definitely screw up your gallbladder and cause biliary and fissures not enough bile flow to that gallbladder.

Evan Brand: Wow. Okay, so let me just clarify, because this is interesting stuff here, because people online, including us were really big proponents of good quality, pastured animal products, and high quality fats were a big proponent of that. But you’re saying that when a person comes in, let’s say they came from the brainwashing of the even 2000s, I mean, part of me want to say 1980s 90s, and 2000s. But it’s still, there’s still the low fat dogma still there, that’s still like one of the labels on a product low in fat that’s still marketed today. So this is still a trend. You’re seeing someone coming from that with gallbladder issues with infections with low stomach acid, then they try to go keto, carnivore, meat based paleo, whatever, they end up with problems. If they have like a gallbladder issue or a gallbladder attack, the doctor is going to blame maybe the fats and just cut the gallbladder out. But you’re saying there’s kind of a few steps, if you will, that have to be a prerequisite to handle a higher fat diet properly.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I mean, why don’t we just have the propaganda of the 80s and 90s. And just the fact that calories in calories out, right, oh, you’re worried about how many calories you consume? Well, we know one gram of fat got nine calories in it, compared to four in the protein and four on the carbs. So of course, fat gets to be looked at more deeply on that side, because of the caloric intake. And then also, if you’re, you know, a lot of the studies on fat causing heart disease, which we know are all nonsense, we know that the meta analyses in the last 10 years show there’s no correlation with that, with fat and animal cholesterol, a lot of the studies in the 60s and 70s, they did not differentiate saturated fat with trans fats. And so they had a whole bunch of trans fats mixed in with a lot of these experiments. And you didn’t really get good data because they had the trans fats, which we know hydrogenated vegetable oils are terrible and bad for our health, we know that. So you got to pull out those confounding variables to really get good data. And so we know that in the last 10 15 years, that is not the case. And that cholesterol and fat is going to be fine. It’s really going to be the sugar of the trans fats, and maybe an argument for a lot of the refined processed vegetable oils, these vegetable oils during the processing of them, they get damaged. Because your polyunsaturated fats, omega six, they get damaged, and they create a lot of oxidative stress, and they get stored in your cell membranes for a long time.

Evan Brand: Yeah, these are these are super bad oils, and they’re everywhere. I mean, even at Whole Foods. If you go and look at organic potato chips, you’re still sometimes gonna see cottonseed oil, you’re gonna see sunflower oil, you’re gonna see canola oil. I mean, I get frustrated because Whole Foods kind of markets themselves as healthy. But if you go to like their I don’t know, if you call the buffet, but their hotbar, if you will, every single food item they have, there’s canola oil and everything.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, it’s just cheap. And then there’s also a lot of stuff on the olive oil being fake, right? So you got to look at that too. But that’s why at least half your fat should be high quality animal saturated fats, because one, those fats are just really stable, they’re going to be really temperature stable. And if you’re getting organic, decent fat, there’s no processing of that that’s going to damage the fat like you may have with a vegetable oil. But ideally, try to get cold pressed, try to get organic, try to get reputable brands that you know, aren’t going to be a blend of other canola oil mixed in which is terrible.

Evan Brand: Yeah, yeah, let’s hit another point, which is important is the fact that the bile has some antimicrobial properties and all these estrogen dominance issues you’re hitting on you’re hitting on the low fat you’re hitting on maybe the the no gallbladder. Yeah, it makes sense why we see so many women, for example, that have had their gallbladders removed, they have massive, massive gut infections.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep, correct. And so bile is antimicrobial. And so it’s gonna make it harder for bugs to grow in the small intestinal tract. And so just having good biliary output, it’s going to act like anti microbials and make it harder for these bugs and dysbiosis to grow. So having good fats in there, going to stimulate good bile stimulation and flow in that bile flow is going to help you emulsify and break down the fat and it’s also going to make the environment harder for bugs to grow. So it’s definitely a win win on both sides of the front there.

Evan Brand: Yeah, you and I don’t have any published studies to say hey, we had 278 patients and, you know, 275 had their gallbladders removed and all 275 had SIBO we don’t have it like published like that. But I know that you would agree clinically what we’ve seen, you know, combined over the last 10 plus years is that We see tons of SIBO SIFO issues and a lot of those people have gallbladder issues or they don’t have a gall bladder period. So it’s definitely, definitely correlated.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. 100%. And it’s good to look at that. No, I would say next thing we can kind of switch into is cooking our foods. I mean, sometimes fermentable carbohydrates, sometimes just the fiber in those foods, the rawness of the foods, the anti nutrients, lectins salicylates, females, can really be irritating to someone’s got if it’s already wrong. So sometimes just one cooking those foods can be wonderful. Sometimes even switching to a carnivore diet, as long as we can handle the fats and proteins can be great, because you’re decreasing all those anti nutrients, sometimes just really making sure everything’s really cooked and steamed and sauteed. Or maybe using an instapot, or some kind of a method really helped break it down. And then of course, low hanging fruit, like just chewing your food up really well to like almost like an oatmeal like liquid consistency, making sure you’re not overly hydrating with your meal, maybe just a couple ounces of water to get some pills down. But that’s it you’re hydrating, 1015 minutes before two hours after because water’s got a pH of seven, right? And your stomach’s a pH of two, two and a half and you add a whole bunch of seven, there’s a bunch of two and a half, you start raising the pH plus you’re diluting all your enzymes and ask for the potencies drops. So all those things matter.

Evan Brand: Yeah, here’s an interesting thing. I looked at some of the videos. And I interviewed him on my podcast too super cool guy, Paul Saladino, who wrote a carnivore book and he talks a lot about carnivore diets. He visited the Hodza tribe. And something interesting is he thinks that we’re really like over hydrating, like, if you watch these people, these tribal people, obviously they don’t have water bottles, and they don’t have really access to water the way we do. But he would notice they would eat an entire meal with no liquid. And then here we are in America, you go to the restaurant, and they’re like, what do you like to drink, sir. And if you’re like water, they bring you a frickin huge cup. I mean, it’s probably 1620 ounces of ice water. It’s cold, which I don’t know, people may debate me on this. I don’t know if ice water is necessarily good around meals either. I just feel like no, from an energetic-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Your stomach longer sits in your stomach longer because your stomach’s not going to release your internal body temperature is around 99 98 degrees, and you drink a whole bunch of 50 degree water, your body’s gonna hold that water in the stomach until it gets up to body temperature and then release it. I mean, very simple. Just drink a whole bunch of cold water and you’ll feel it sloshing around drink room temperature water and you’ll feel it move through your body way faster. When you move around. 510 minutes later, you won’t feel the sloshing.

Evan Brand: Ah, you know, see just intuitively I just keep I just drink room temperature water now they’re on a really hot day. Yeah, like some ice water. But just like normally, during the office hours, you know, I’m just drinking room temperature water and I feel so much better with it. But yeah, so sorry, I got on a little tangent. But I would-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s not a big deal. It’s not a big deal. If you do that and drink wine, drink cold water, just be careful of drinking really cold water right before a meal. Because it will take longer to move through. So at least if you’re going to do cold water, make sure it’s not 10 minutes before meal.

Evan Brand: Okay, Okay, understood. But anyway, the idea was like he saw these tribal people and how they’re how they’re eating and drinking. And, you know, they didn’t really do meal combining, there’s a lot of like, when you go to a restaurant, there’s this feeling that you got to have your meat and then your vegetable and then your potato. And obviously this is different. I’m not saying we all need to live like tribal people. But what I’m saying is I find it very interesting that their life is more what our DNA expects, meaning if they’re walking along and they stop upon a bush, they might just gorge on these berries. Or if they stop and find this bail Bob tree with a particular type of honey in it, they’ll cut open the tree, find the beehive they’ll eat just a meal of honey and then they get the kill and they eat just the meat so I personally have experimented with that like just meat, just berries just starch and just try to play around with it as opposed to doing the steak with the broccoli with the sweet potato and I personally do feel better on just those single items so I’ve I’ve definitely been leaning more that direction I feel significantly better.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I think you know a couple of things one I think most of their meals are probably going to have more protein in it because if you kill an animal that that meat last way longer and if you look at a lot of the the fruit they were to have back then I’ve looked at a lot of these studies that they’re a lot more tart a lot more bitter they aren’t like overly sweet like we’ve due to hybridization and genetic selection we’ve kind of chose the sweetest berries the sweetest this so a lot of the fruits way sweeter than what you would have typically found in nature on average and things like honey would have been a rarity it wouldn’t have been something that you’re you’re have access to every single day and so we have access to it every day so you know if it’s something that’s every now and then it’s probably not a big deal but if they were doing honey like that every single day and they weren’t as active right because they have to be really active to hunt and kill and do all their stuff there may be metabolic issues.

Evan Brand: Oh yeah, I think I read he was just trying to keep up with the tribe. I want to say they were doing something like 10 miles a day walking I mean there’s an insane amount of steps.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, anytime one your stress is decent right because you know most of their life was just focused on the next meal right killing having their next meal obviously making sure shelter stable but once shelter is good Then really most of your focus is on food as a food and safety for the tribe. That’s it. You know, you’re not having to go pay a big mortgage down or worried about your kids private school, right? Yeah, that’s a different priorities right?

Evan Brand: Have you seen the organic strawberries lately? My god, they’re freaking huge. They’re like small apples, man.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I had a couple over the weekend. They were like almost the size of my hand. I was like, Holy smokes!

Evan Brand: Because I kind of thought that organic was and I guess I thought wrong. This is me being dumb, I guess. But I thought that organic had a little bit of separation from the conventional practices meaning the hybridization process, but my god, you look at some of these apples now to their like softballs.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, yeah, I mean, just farmers naturally over hundreds of years, they’re going to just start selecting seeds and, and crops that are going to be more tasty, just just natural selection of what sells. And so that tends to shift over time, where if things are just growing in Mother Nature, you know, we don’t quite have that ability to select it as much. 

Evan Brand: Yeah, I don’t know if you’ve seen this, but I go, you know, I’ll be out in the woods and I’ll find some wild strawberries. They’re tiny. They’re like the size of your pinky fingernail.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Real. Yeah. Yeah, no, totally. So yeah, but most important thing is the food quality. And, of course, if you have insulin resistance in your inflamed, you know, leaning to less sugar is always better. Just because your body doesn’t have you know, if you’re the hunza, right, and you’re walking 10 miles a day hiking and doing all these things, you have the ability to burn all that stuff up. No problem. It’s not a problem, but you have don’t have the ability to burn it up, what’s your body going to do with it, then it gets stored in the liver, and it’s stored in the muscles, and then when that’s tapped, it’s gonna get converted to fat. And you’ll get insulin resistance. We got probably that’s I’ve got to be careful that.

Evan Brand: Yeah, and the main last point, there was just adjusting how your food is cooked based on what’s going on with your gut. So if you’ve got infections, like for me, I’ve rarely ever do leafy green salads. Raw just doesn’t agree with my gut. And so I don’t do it. And I could, I’m sure I could work it in, but to me, I feel I feel good. My gut feels good. I feel good. So I’m okay with cooked veggies. And those work for me. So.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, worst case, just take your veggies laid out in the frying pan and put a really good saturated fat down and some sea salt, you know, and, and boil it, you know, for 20 minutes at 400 nice roasted vegetables are pretty good. As long as you’re using the good healthy fat on It’s wonderful.

Evan Brand: Yeah, would you recommend something like ghee, because if you go too hot with butter, you might get some smoke, right? So would you say ghee or what do you like?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You could do ghee or any Talos you could do a little bit of avocado oil. Avocado oil is pretty heat stable use got to make sure you’re looking at what the heat is. You don’t overdo based on the smoke point. Okay, that’d be cool. Anything else you want to hit on? I just think people that are listening here. If you’re struggling and you’re having a hard time, you know, feel free to reach out to someone like Evan and I would be happy to help you out. And you can see Evan at EvanBrand.com and feel free you can schedule with him worldwide, as well as myself, Dr. J at JustInHealth.com. Happy to help you guys out. also put your comments down below, let us know your thoughts on the topic. Let us know what you’ve done. What’s helped you in the past. You know, we learn a lot through our patients. Because you know, when you only have yourself that’s that’s only one person. But when you have 1000s of people that you can learn from you just see what works. You don’t need a scientific study to tell you because you see it, it’s real. And then we apply it to help our patients. And we really appreciate y’all sharing your stories here as well. And reach out links below for everything guys, and then make sure you share with family and friends that they could benefit. Please put it in their inbox or share it on social media. We really appreciate it.

Evan Brand: Yeah, yeah, well, awesome job. And yeah, once again, JustinHealth.com. Or EvanBrand.com, please reach out we’d love to help you. And you know, we didn’t talk about it too much today, because it’s more focused on other things. But testing is part of this protocol. So figuring out exactly what we’re doing, how we’re doing it, when we’re doing it, why we’re doing it, it is based on testing, we’re not just using you as a guinea pig, we are truly looking at calprotectin and stouter crit and Alaska as there’s, there’s so many biomarkers that we didn’t even discuss that we’re working into that. So I just want you to know that we’re not coming in blind here. We have data that we’re using, which helps us to guide these protocols. And that’s really where the magic happens is once you get to the get the data. So test, don’t guess, reach out if you need help. And we’ll be in touch next week.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, just to highlight that. On the digestive side, we’re looking at markers likes the adequate, which if that’s high, that’s a lot of mal digested fat. If we have a lot of calprotectin or lactoferrin, or increased immune response like IGA that means there’s stuff going on in the gut. And so it’s good to know that ahead of time so we can really quantify what’s happening, or maybe even gut permeability like Sanyo, and that can all be very helpful. So I’m glad you touched upon that. We’ll put links below guys for everything that you guys need to take next steps and you guys have a phenomenal week.


References:

https://justinhealth.com/

https://www.evanbrand.com/

Audio Podcast:

https://justinhealth.libsyn.com/the-top-5-common-digestive-supplement-mistake-hcl-enzymes-and-bile-support-podcast-338

Recommended products:

Genova Organix®

Dysbiosis Profile

Genova NutrEval® FMV

Genova ION Profile

Genova SIBO Breath Test

DUTCH Adrenal Test

Organic Grass Fed Meat

Betaine HCL Supreme

Multi Nutrient Supreme

Digest Synergy

Liver Supreme

Enzyme Synergy

TRUCOLLAGEN (Grassfed)

Why is My Digestion Broken – Lab Test Interpretation of GI MAP with Lisa Pomeroy | Podcast #335

The digestive system is a winding and extensive part of the body. It ranges from the mouth to the rectum. The digestive system assists your body in absorbing vital nutrients and is responsible for getting rid of waste.

Because there are so many types of digestion issues, you might mistakenly dismiss them. Dr. J and Lisa emphasize that it’s essential to understand the root cause of digestion issues — as well as emergencies — so you know when to talk to a functional doctor and have yourself tested.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

In this episode, we cover:

0:00 – Introduction

3:31 – GI MAP Interpretation from a sample patient

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Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey guys it’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani here. I am with Lisa Pomeroy. Really excited to have her on today’s podcast. We’re gonna be chatting about different kinds of lab tests. Everything labs really. Our goal today is to show, we’re gonna be really diving into the gut tests, really looking at gut function. One of the big tests we’ll look at is the GI map and how to interpret that and some of the big take-homes as we go through that to you know pull out action items as we address patient concerns. And the next one we’ll go into is the ion panel where we’ll get a really good window into mitochondrial function, neurotransmitter function, overall nutrient absorption, gut function, etc. So, really excited to have Lisa on the show today. Lisa, how you doing? 

Lisa Pomeroy: Doing good! How about yourself?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey,doing wonderful. Really excited to, uh, chat with you, very good. 

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Awesome. So, why don’t you let people know a little bit more about yourself me, you’re a clinician as well. 

Lisa Pomeroy: I am yeah. I am a traditional naturopath. Um, I’ve done a bunch of differential functional medicine training programs. So, you know like, you I’m a graduate of Dan Kalish’s, uh, Kalish spectatorship. So, I love learning and a lot of the learning was something I had to do to try to get myself healthy.  Because when we talk about gut issues, I had major gut issues. I mean, as young as seventh grade, I was having ulcer-like pain and unfortunately, no one I went to, knew about H. pylori, knew about testing for H. pylori, treating H. pylori, so I had to suffer in silence for another 20 years with severe stomach pain before I run the test on myself, found I had H. pylori and got rid of it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow! That is crazy. What a story.

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah, I come home from school and drink cabbage juice. I mean, I was that devoted because it’s the only thing that would help. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, intuitively you knew the vitamin you in there was helping. 

Lisa Pomeroy: Exactly!

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, so you really had to wait a long time, so that’s crazy because you must have so much appreciation for what we all do today. You have a lot of empathy for your patients. That’s great! It’s important to have that. 

Lisa Pomeroy:  Yeah, I talk to people and we’ll talk about like a five-year-old child or something and I just, you know, I’m just so grateful because it’s like I’m so glad that they have that the parents know enough to be getting this child help so they don’t have to suffer like I did for another 20-30 years with severe gut pain. You know, we find out that they have a nasty parasite in their gut and we get rid of it and they’re not gonna be nutritionally deficient and have all these gut symptoms for decades. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, totally. Yeah. And it’s important, I mean obviously out of the gate, the labs are important to give us a lot of information that’s clinically actionable but you know diet and lifestyle, foundational things, a lot of these, you know, we probably don’t need a lab test per se. I mean, it’s good to have it right? I t’s nice to know, like okay, maybe there’s some gluten sensitivity, maybe there’s some inflammation, maybe there’s some immune activation and we should kind of start some diet changes and there’s some foundational things that you tend to find that just generally help most people out of the gates, you know, maybe sugar or gluten. What things you specifically utilize?

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah, exactly! I mean, we look at the top pro-inflammatory foods in the diet. Most people say gluten, dairy, white refined sugar and ultra-processed foods. You know, those are gonna be some of your top things, where a lot of people will notice a difference, where you can pull it out, you know, you can do a trial where you, you know, you eat whole unprocessed foods, your whole fruits and veggies, roots and tubers, you know, that sort of things. You cut out the dairy you see how you do, so yes, testing can be helpful with that, but some of it can just be, you know, take it out and see how you feel.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: See how you feel

Lisa Pomeroy: Exactly!

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That makes sense. Oh cool. Why don’t we dive into some of the GI map testing out of the gates. I got a sample patient here, we’ll pull it up on screen. 

Lisa Pomeroy: Okay.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We’ll kind of whip through it and we’ll try to keep it actionable. I mean, unlike a lot of shows, you know, you’re a clinician, I’m a clinician, you interact with patients and doctors throughout the week and so we’re trying to get people, real actionable information here. 

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah, great!

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Can you see the screen here? 

Lisa Pomeroy: I can. Yeah. It’s coming through nice and clear. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, cool. So, we’ll just kind of start off, um right off the bat here, page one. So, we’re looking at a lot of bacterial pathogens, some parasite pathogens and viral stuff. I’ll let you, kind of take it away with the first part. 

Lisa Pomeroy: Sure. So, basically what I want to see on this first page is nothing. You know, these are things that really don’t belong there. So, I want to see that less than DL which stands for below the detectable limit for all the things down the page. Now, some of these, we don’t necessarily need to interfere with, like that E. coli 0157, uh, that one is something it’s an acute pathogen. It’s actually, uh, like a foodborne pathogen and we’ve been seeing a lot of these pathogenic E. coli lately. They tend to peak in the late summer months, so July, August, September, we see a lot of them, just because they’re on the fresh produce, you know, the leafy greens, served lettuce, your basil, your berries. So, you pick them up and so we’re looking for symptoms. Now, this case, this is a very teeny tiny little level E0. So, that is something they either just picked up a very small amount or is mostly on its way out. And that’s where an E. coli like 0157, you know, is something that’s considered transient, self-limiting, it’ll go away on its own. Now, it may or may not give you symptoms. If you did get symptoms, they probably last for less than a week, probably get some diarrhea, some cramping, fever, nausea, that sort of thing. So, sometimes we’ll see these on the report and we go, okay, well, that explains why you had diarrhea two weeks ago, you know, you got a hold of this bug, but, you know, it may not be something we actually need to do something about. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: But every now and then, you see the 01h57, I mean, you see, that with spinach a lot, these people will die every year with it. So, if it can be serious to people are, have a compromised immune system or gut function, right? 

Lisa Pomeroy: Exactly! And that’s what especially the elderly, the young children, they are the greater risk of more severe types of infections and that’s where a lot of times people, you know, and a lot of times they know that were, you know, the time say they got some diarrhea, they run the test, they’re waiting for the results to come back. Usually, those symptoms are going to peak, before the results came back, so they know I’m having severe things are coming out both ends basically. I’m puking, bloody diarrhea. They should know they need to go to seek emergency medical care. And that’s something where, you know, usually by the time, we’re seeing people. Now, most people don’t get that severe, but if they would, they would have sought medical attention. So, usually, we’re seeing the side more like, oh yeah, I had loose stools for two days, I just my gut was a little off, you know. So, we may not to intervene, although, I always look for there’s deeper bigger issues because, really, you know, the body is meant to protect us from these infections, so if you were susceptible to picking up the E.coli on your spinach or your lettuce, you know, where was the stomach acid, shouldn’t that come in and killed what, you know, you ate and went through your stomach or what about secretory IgA, this is marker later on the test that tells you about gut immunity. You know, secretory IgA. Yep, there it is, yep. So, that one, if that’s low, you know, that’s a problem because that can actually engulf pathogens, so they can’t attach to the bowel wall, can take them so the immune system knows that’s a bad guy, we got to get rid of it. So, if you have a good stomach acid, good bile, those are antimicrobials to kill things, if you have a good secretory IgA, that’s your gut immunity, that’s gonna protect you, it’s our first line of defense. So, again, if I see an E. coli, I may not need to do some protocol to get rid of it, it may just go away on its own. But I’m looking for the deeper issues. You know, if you don’t have good stomach acid, you’re probably gonna pick up E. coli again next summer or whenever you again eat something that has it on it. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That totally makes sense. I’ll scroll back here to page one, so we can go in order, uh, and then obviously we have some other food poisoning types of bacteria here Campylobacter, uh, Salmonella, we may see in chicken. Do this change anything for you if someone still has something lingering and some gutted gut issues, I mean, you’re still going to try to address it with some herbals when it’s appropriate. 

Lisa Pomeroy: Exactly! Yeah. Some of these and there is, you know, research keeps coming out where we’re thinking something like Campylobacter, you know, we think it’s something that just temporarily stays in the gut and then it’s gone. It’s kind of like a hit and run, where it does its damage and then it leaves the gut repairs. But, in some people, they’ve actually done some duodenal aspirates and find that, you know, they can actually find it still in the gut and the person hasn’t had that recent food poisoning incident. So, there is a little bit of a question with some of these, could they actually stick around a little bit longer and that’s definitely a problem too. So, if they show up on a single report, you know, say Campylobacter, shows up, my initial assumption is yeah, you probably ate some chicken or something lately that had it, but if I’m seeing repeated tests, maybe it’s a chronic colonizer or maybe you keep getting food poisoning, maybe you’re eating at some local fast food chicken place that maybe doesn’t have the best quality chicken or again, you have low stomach acid. It takes very few organisms to infect you if you have low stomach acid, so again, we need to look at, is this a chronic issue for repeatedly seeing it. Is this low stomach acid, low gut immunity, something’s wrong.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. And then same thing here, we have different types of sugar toxins which are, these are toxins actually produced by the E. coli, is that correct?

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah, E. coli was kind of unique in that there’s, they’re all pathogenic E. coli. You can kind of lump them all together that, but they have different mechanisms of actions, different toxins they produce and so they kind of each got their own special name even though you can all just lump them all together, they’re just food borne pathogenic E. colis.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That are gonna produce different toxins that would create inflammation. 

Lisa Pomeroy: Uhum, yeah. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, either way, you’re gonna be, you know, trying to clean out the diet and use some kind of herbal to kind of knock it down so to speak. 

Lisa Pomeroy: Yep, and I look at food quality, I also, you know, because something like, you know, again, chicken could be a source of Salmonella, Campylobacter. If you’re eating conventional chicken versus organic chicken. They found, you know, when they’ve actually done research studies on this the non-organic ones are more highly contaminated with these bugs than the organic plus they tend to be more antibiotic resistance. So, say, if you do get Campylobacter, Salmonella, chances are it’s going to be a very nasty type that’s not going to respond to treatment, if you did need treatment. Um, and then certain, techniques too like, you know, personally I get organic pastured air chilled chicken because there’s again how is the chicken processed, they can put it in a chlorine bath which is just essentially like a fecal soup, they have all of these chicken carcasses just in this big tub of chlorinated water. And so, if you have one contaminated chicken carcass in this big pool, it can contaminate other ones. Versus air chilled, they’re kind of, you know, just single hanging on their own, so again, they’ve done the research where air chilled is less contaminated with these microbes. So again, whether you’re susceptible or not, I mean, I still don’t wanna, you know, I do my best cleaning my produce, you know, buying good quality food. So, we’re looking at food hygiene, food quality, but you know, you do things the little things that you can do, when purchasing these things to prevent your exposure. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, cool. We also skipped, I think C. diff out of the gate so C. diff is a bacterial infection, it can, it’s common in hospitals. High levels of antibiotics can mess up your gut and create an imbalance there, um, obviously toxins A and B together tend to be more synergistic and worse than just one. Do you want to add to that at all? Comments to that?

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah, so a lot of people see this test and they panic when C. diff comes up because we know that C. diff can be a nasty infection. However, we have to keep in mind what this test is measuring, is the bacteria not the toxins. So, what this tells you is that, there’s C. diff bacteria in the gut that carries the gene that would allow it to produce toxin A and or toxin B. Whether it’s actually doing that at the moment is the question. So, what’s defined as C. diff infection is the bacteria are there actively producing the toxins and the toxins are whether damaging the gut causing the diarrhea, the classic C. diff presentation. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: What is that?

Lisa Pomeroy: Now, a lot of people are actually colonized with C. diff, where the bacteria is there but maybe you have some good guys that are keeping it in balance preventing it from turning on those genes and producing the toxins and so that’s where it’s important to have the good bacteria there to not wipe them out by antibiotics or other things. So, we can’t differentiate between infection or colonization here, you know, this is just telling us, C. diff bacteria is there and you know, we don’t really want it there. Now, if someone does have symptoms that indicate a possible infection, you know, we certainly could do further testing and actually test those toxins to confirm. But a lot of people, if they say, well, I’m constipated, you know, probably not a C. diff infection, you know it’s, if they don’t  present like those classic symptoms, it’s probably more colonization which is far more common but I still don’t want it there because it’s essentially lying in wait, waiting for the opportunity, you get a UTI, you take around antibiotics, now again, you killed the organisms protecting against this, so now, you do turn on the gene, get the toxins,  get the C. diff infection. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, we have the bacteria that has potential to make this toxin but it’s not necessarily show that the same toxin, they are b is present. It’s more the potential of it based on the bacteria.

Lisa Pomeroy: Exactly! This tells us about the bacteria and not whether toxins are actually being produced. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And this Clostridium, isn’t the same as on page two. This one is a little bit different but this is a kind of more the overall class where this is more of the specific type of Clostridium within that class. Is that correct?

Lisa Pomeroy: Exactly! So, C. difficile is a pathogenic organism that’s part of that large group. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That family. 

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah, but Clostridia actually has a lot of beneficial butyrate producers. So, this is just picking up, there’s a very small subgroup of maybe more pathogenic potentially harmful ones within the group. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay. Very good! Excellent! Anything you want to see down here? I mean we have you mentioned a kind of Salmonella, more connected to chicken and eggs, things like that, uh, cholera more waterborne. Anything else you want to say about Cholera or Yersinia?

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah, so, Vibrio in the U.S. the most common source is actually seafood. So that’s what I’m checking to see if it’s like, okay Vibrio comes up, which doesn’t all that often but once in a while it will. I just check, you know, did you eat seafood recently and it’s always, oh yeah, I had some shrimp and you know, again, may or may not had those acute symptoms but you know often there’s recent seafood consumption. Now, in other countries, it’s more through the water, through, you know, just dirty water that has fecal contamination, here it’s usually seafood. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, very good! And then, um, Yersinia, you said, is that seafood as well? That was just the vibrio?

Lisa Pomeroy: That’s just a vibrio. Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: How about Yersinia?

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah, that one can come through many different sources, um, sometimes it could be, you know, even raw dairy products, could be pork, you know, many different sources for food, uh, but this one actually can be a trigger for Hashimoto’s. So, it doesn’t show up. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It can. 

Lisa Pomeroy: It can, yeah. So, it doesn’t show up all that often but if it does, I’m looking at the thyroid antibodies and other testing or seeing if there’s already a diagnosis of Hashimoto’s. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very good! And then parasite wise, we have Crypto, E. histo, and Giardia, which definitely are the big three, right, um, Crypto primarily found in water, E. histo is going to be nasty little amoebic that people don’t know it’s in the top three to five causes of death in third world countries. It’s a nasty little bugger. 

Lisa Pomeroy: It is!

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And then Giardia, as well, which loves to hide in the gallbladder. I’m gonna let you kind of go into those one by one. Quick question, why do they have these parasites here and then on page four, a separate section for parasites? Why don’t they put them all in one spot? 

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah. My thought is that, you know, within the medical community, certain pathogens now are widely accepted as disease causing. So, like, pretty much, I mean a conventional doctor, a functional medicine doctor, they’re all going to say, you know, Crypto, Giradia, E. histo are bad. You know, we don’t wanna see those. Now, Blastocystis hominis, you know, most functional medicine practitioners will say that, that has a lot of potential to cause harm, linked it with Hashimoto’s and you know, hives and IBS. But from the conventional standpoint, they’re not entirely convinced because some people can have Blasto and not have symptoms. So, the ones on page four, there is research supporting that all of them have pathogenic potential but they’re not as widely accepted as a 100% pathogenic unlike the ones on page one. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Makes sense. I know a lot of people like Mayo clinic are starting to say, hey if you have Blasto and have some level of symptoms, well, you probably should address it, you know, most people that we see the problem is. Well, what constitutes a symptom from Blasto for instance we know a lot of gut issues can cause extra-intestinal symptoms like fatigue, brain fog, mood issues, sleep issues. So then, how do you really connect the dots? Obviously, we have diarrhea, constipation, acid reflux, bloating, right? But sometimes you get these extra intestinal ones which are a little weird. 

Lisa Pomeroy: Exactly! Like Blasto, people say, oh well I have no gut pain, and then I start asking more about their symptoms like, oh well, I do have chronic hives, and I have joint pain and I have, you know, these other symptoms, it’s like. Well, I can show you research study that’s linked that to Blasto. Yes, it’s not a gut related system symptom, but it’s been linked to blasto.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% Yeah, very good. 

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah. Yeah. So, going over the page one pathogen, so yeah, Cryptosporidium, Giardia, those are actually both small intestinal infections, whereas the E. histo is a large intestine infection. Um, but Crypto and Giardia, often can be from the water, so we do have to look at drinking water and for Giardia, recreational water can be a big source too. So, again, a lot of these pathogens have their seasons. So Giardia, we can see more prevalent in the summer months because people are going in and swimming in lakes and streams and rivers and swimming pools and you know, or going water rafting or you know doing things recreational water parks and you just get a mouthful of water and chlorine doesn’t consistently kill it unfortunately. So, you still could get it or it could be your well water so I was always look to if we see Giardia, what are you drinking, you know, are you drinking well water, is it filtered, you know, are you, do you swim in lakes and streams, ponds, you have a swimming pool, so we always want to look at that because sometimes if there is, if it is well water and it has Giardia and you can often test your water for these bugs too, you know, we wanna make sure we’re getting rid of that source. Um, but yeah, I mean that could be, these can be nasty again. You can pick them up on the food. All of these have what they call the fecal oral route. So basically, if you know, again, it could be animal poop and stuff that just gets on your leafy greens because your cattle farm is next to your lettuce farm. There’s a little runoff and yeah, it’s hard to wash your produce. I mean, I still recommend soaking fresh produce in water with a little vinegar or hydrogen peroxide in it to try to kill those bugs. But even still, I mean, lettuce has so many little nooks and crannies, it’s hard to get it all killed.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely! And we probably want to make sure every patient that we see, the clinician that we see is recommending a good quality water at least a carbon-based one or ideally even at reverse osmosis just really make sure we filter out all those potential parasitic cysts plus water’s got a whole bunch of nasty things in it, like chlorine, like potential fluoride and pharmaceuticals that you want to filter out as well. 

Lisa Pomeroy: Exactly! Clean water is a must whether it’s the bugs or the toxins.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly! Any other comments on the viral pathogens here? 

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah again, those you know, again, tend to acute rather than chronic colonizers. Although, again, Norovirus, there is some evidence, it could be a chronic. But you know, these will feel often like a stomach flu. So again, you usually pick it up more your food like poisoning. But, some of these, you could pick up, like Norovirus, say you go to a public restroom, you touch the faucet handle and then you eat your lunch without washing your hands. You know, if you touch something with the virus, you put your hands in your mouth, you could pick up something like Norovirus from touching objects too. But, usually feels like a stomach flu. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay cool. Well, let’s drive into H. pylori here next, um, and also just a little reference range, um, tidbit for a lot of folks here. If you’re trying to figure out the reference range, you see, I don’t know, let’s say. Let’s go on to see where’s a good example. 

Lisa Pomeroy: Well, H. pylori, it’s a big one too. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, but if you look at E. coli, you’re trying to figure out where this fits in the reference range. If the exponent is below the reference range, then you got to move to the left. So, this really is .00860 and then if its above, like this, this is e to the five, right, then you have to move to the right to make it just to make it equal, um, the exponents kind of throw a lot of patients off that I, I find when we go through them all. 

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah. Exactly. Yep.  And it’s just, it’s in scientific nomenclature, yeah, it’s just otherwise, you have a ton of zeros. Yeah. It just cleans up the report. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly!

Lisa Pomeroy: And there’s nice, like these are powers of ten, so you can get like powers at tens chart like e3 is a thousand. So, you can go, oh, that’s e3 is a thousand, take the 2.9 multiply it, that’s 2900 cells. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly! Exactly! And then really quick here with the H. pylori. I haven’t seen the last year so a ton of virulence factors come back on my patients. Have you seen that as the lab kind of tone down the sensitivity with that? Have you noticed?

Lisa Pomeroy: It depends. Fortunately, we don’t see them often, which I mean the problem with virulence factors is they’ve been associated in the literature with higher risk of gastric cancer, gastric ulcers, cardiovascular disease. So, if you have H. pylori that has these attached to it, it has more potential to cause harm and disease. Now, I just saw one yesterday, where she has a history of H. pylori and unfortunately, she got it back again and she had it pretty much looked like this one. It had like four or five virulence factors, which is what she was dealing with before too. So, we do still pick them up, you know, again, fortunately, it’s not as often because this is the really nasty type of H. pylori, you don’t want to see. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly! And then, regarding the reference range, this is above one. If someone is borderline or a little bit below, would you typically want to treat them or let’s say if they had symptoms, would you still want to treat them? 

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah. So, it becomes more of a clinical decision if it’s below that of a thousand cell threshold. But we have had people have like, this is a 2.9 e3. We’ve had people like a 2.6 e2, which is just 260 cells. They’ve had endoscopies and have been told that their stomach was covered in H. pylori and highly inflamed. So, sometimes, this can be the tip of the iceberg. We have to remember where is this infection located. This is a stomach infection. So, something in the stomach, you know it depends on how much is being shed into the GI tract that day. It’s got to travel 20, 22 feet through the intestinal tract to come out the other end. So sometimes, this is going to be heavily diluted from what we started out with. So, this could, yeah, so this could be a glimpse of what’s there. So that’s where there I, you know, it comes down to the clinical decision, does this fit. If someone comes in and they have gas and bloating and GERD and reflux and stomach pain and I see a borderline level, a moderate positive, I’m probably gonna do a protocol because it fits. Now, if this was a very low level and they had absolutely no symptoms and I looked through the rest of the report, their microbiome looks good, their enzymes look good, their gut immunity looks good, maybe it’s okay. Maybe they have good Lactobacillus and things keeping it in check. But I wanna see signs that it’s not causing any harm so that’s where I look at the symptoms, the history, the rest of the report. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That makes sense. And then with these cytotoxic proteins, are these more genetic type of risk factors because of the, because of the genes or are they specifically connected to the H. pylori and if you knock down the H. pylori, will knock down these cytotoxic proteins? 

Lisa Pomeroy: Exactly! So, these are genes attached to bacteria. They’re not related to the person. So, as you kill the bacteria, the virulence factors go with the bacteria. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it! You can clear them as the bacteria gets knocked down. You can, you can knock down the bacteria that has those genes attached to it.  

Lisa Pomeroy: Exactly! Like, if you have babA that just allows the H. pylori to stick to the stomach a little bit better. So, we have to, we might bring a little cranberry juice because that has an anti-adhesive property to it. So, we just try to undo that little trick that the H. pylori has which here, the babA allows it to stick so we’re going to do something so it can’t stick. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, would that be a good recommendation if you had H. pylori without the babA?

Lisa Pomeroy: You could actually because there is research that shows that cranberry juice seems to kill H. pylori and just prevent it from ticking to the stomach wall. So, with babA, I definitely would include it but I also often include it just with H. pylori. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And then, if you address someone like round one and there’s still some H. pylori left or you didn’t move it a ton, are you gonna try a second round with different herbs and just kind of mixed them up? How do you address patients where you don’t quite get the result you want the first round? 

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah, and this is when we’re using herbs, especially the herbs we traditionally use things like mastic gum, DGL, Licorice, they don’t have the major impact on the beneficial flora. So, it’s not like we’re going in there with some really super strong herbs a lot of times that will just knock out everything and so we can often use repeated rounds of some of those herbs safely without disrupting everything else. But I have had people were, especially skin conditions where until we get that H. pylori less than DL, their skin won’t clear up. So, for me, I looked to see now if they’re feeling great if we knocked it down and there’s a little bit again, it’s always a judgement call but I’ve seen people with acne, with eczema, where until it hits a less than DL, they have the symptoms, the second they hit less than DL they’re gone.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, are there any other herbs that you’ll pivot off the mastika or that you use synergistically with it or that you’ll rotate in if first round didn’t work that you’ll pivot on the second or third round with? 

Lisa Pomeroy: Uhm. Yeah. So, a lot of times other organisms can actually promote the colonization of H. pylori like yeast is a big one I look for because there’s, yep yeah, and there’s actually research that yeast and H. pylori have what researchers call an intimate relationship. So basically, if there’s yeast and H. pylori together in the mouth or the stomach, the H. pylori can go and hide inside of the yeast and kind of seek refuge inside of it and then later come out when the coast is clear. So, if I see a bunch of yeast on the next page, I may need to bring in some antifungals at the same time trying kill H. pylori or it’s just gonna hide out and just come out later. So, that can be something we miss, you know, H. pylori can produce biofilms and hide inside a yeast. Some bacteria can produce hydrogen and that hydrogen also can fuel the growth of H. pylori. So, that’s where sometimes I do look at. Okay, let’s bring in some Berberine, some Oregano, some Neem, some Pau D’Arco silver, something that’s gonna also address the bacteria or the yeast or some biofilm disruptors like NAC, and acetyl cysteine, can break down H. pylori biofilms. So, I’m thinking about all of those things because those could be what we’re running into a wall. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Makes a lot of sense. Very good. Any of the comments on the H. pylori and then also like what are the big virulence factors to look out for, like a top three?

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah, I mean, some of the nastier ones we’re thinking more like gastric ulcers, gastric cancers, cagA is one of those big nasty ones. Um, dupA, the dup is duodenal, so that one’s a little more duodenal ulcer. VacA, that again, is another one, where ulcers, cancer. So, I’d say, the three worst one, the cagA, dupA, the vacA. I mean, yes, babA is not a good thing but it’s more allowing it to stick to the stomach a little bit more, it’s gonna be a little bit invasive, a little more inflammatory. But, you know, those other three are just especially nasty. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it. The cag, the dup, and the vac?

Lisa Pomeroy: yeah

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay. Very cool. And now we go into the normal bacteria. These are commensal flora, normal flora in the gut but we can kind of gain a little bit of insight what’s happening in the gut based on these imbalances. I mean, out of the gates we have, you know, just out of the gates, we have Lactobacillus, which is a beneficial flora that’s low so we’re certain starting to see low levels of beneficial bacteria. Anything you want to say kind of from this section down?

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah. And again, we can tie this with other sections too like Lactobacillus actually lives in the stomach and it’s very antagonistic towards H. pylori. So, if I’m looking at this and going well, we have a nasty H. pylori and infection, we have low levels Lactobacillus, I’m gonna get, get a lactobacillus probiotic in here, to try to help not only get more Lactobacillus in the system because it’s clearly lacking but it’s gonna help push out some of that H. pylori from the stomach. Now, in general, I look at, you know, do we have highs, do we have lows, because even though these are good guys, too much of a good thing is a bad thing. So, I still don;t wanna see highs or lows. Now, lot of times, when things are low, it’s often something killed them. So, I look for a history, did you take antibiotics recently or things like artificial sweeteners, like you know, splenda, sucralose, it’s a chlorinated sugar, chlorine kills bugs including the good bugs, so we need to be looking at agian the diet. Are you doing something that’s killing these, do you eat GMO foods, food sprayed with glyphosate? Glyphosate is patented as an antibiotic, again it’s gonna kill your good bugs. So, are you doing something that’s killing them or are you starving them, you gotta feed your bugs, they like fiber, so if you’re restricting fiber in your diet, if you’re not eating lots of whole fruits and vegetables and beans and nuts and seeds and you know maybe some gluten-free grains. I mean all of these things have the fibers that these guys love. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% and so a lot of fibers, a lot of fruits, a lot of vegetables. If someone were to go carnivore, would you see a lot of these commensal flora drop typically?

Lisa Pomeroy: You do, unfortunately. Yeah. Unfortunately, we have seen some reports for people who are doing carnivore and especially if there’s low stomach acid, especially if there’s H. pylori, you’ll see, a lot of the ones, the opportunistic ones on the following page go really sky high and you’ll see lots of low levels here because these guys like their fiber. Now we don’t test some of the bile loving bugs here but you know if you were testing those, we would expect to see some of the protein degrading, you know bile loving ones, those are the ones that are gonna go up but they’re also ones that produce things like hydrogen sulfide which can be very pro-inflammatory in excess. So, while it may relieve some symptoms, I’d rather look at why can’t you digest your foods and vegetables and carbs and that kind of stuff. You know, there’s probably an infection like H. pylori or some dysbiosis instead of restricting your diet so severely and starving your good bugs, let’s get rid of these bigger issues, get you digesting better so you can have those foods again.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very good. And so, out of the gates there, any specific changes that you’re gonna see, you’re gonna make outside of those recommended diet or lifestyles? Things for like Faecalibacterium prausnitzii, Akkermansia, any specific changes there?

Lisa Pomeroy: Uhum, yeah. So, Faecalibacterium prausnitzii is the major butyrate producer, so butyrates are very anti-inflammatory in your gut but it also has an effect in the brain. Butyrate produced in your gut will cross your blood brain barrier and have an anti-inflammatory effect in your brain, stimulates BDNF – Brain derived neurotropic factor, can help with anxiety. So again, we’re not just looking a gut impact here, we may see this is low with skin conditions and anxiety and all these other issues. But this loves fiber, loves resistant starch, so I might suggest, you know, let’s eats some, you know, rice that’s been cooked and cooled or some potatoes or roots and tubers that have been cooked and cooled because if you cook these foods and then you cool them it creates resistant starch. So, like something, like potato salad would, you know, Faecalibacterium prausnitzii would really happy with some potato salad. But also your fibers, you know, fruits and veggies, roots and tubers, all of that stuff but it wants fiber. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very good. And what if some of those foods cause people to get more bloated or gassy like let’s say they have issues with nuts or have issues with legumes or lentils, would you suggest they continue to eat that even if they feel bad or listen to their body in that?

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah. We always want to listen to the body, you know, some foods are just harder to digest than others so some people especially if your gut is very damaged and inflamed, maybe you can’t handle the beans, legumes, lentils right off the bat. So, we find different foods, you know, other fiber-rich foods that don’t cause that discomfort and sometimes it’s about portions too, so something like an apple. Maybe you can’t have a whole apple because it has a lot of fermentable carbs but you can have two apple slices or you can’t have a whole plate of asparagus but you can have two spears of asparagus and a stir fry. So, we’ll always look at those things but I also look at enzymes. You know, if you don’t have enzymes to break down these foods, you’re probably gonna feel too good with them. So, I’m always looking at elastase, one again later in the report if that’s low. I’m bringing in a pancreatic enzyme supplement because that not only helps with your gas and bloating and you know all those digestive symptoms but also helps of the dysbiosis because if you’re not digesting your food, your bugs will, so you’re giving them all you can eat buffet if you don’t digest your food. So, enzymes are really key and they’ve actually done some really cool studies finding that, that low elastase one is actually a more influential on your microbiome than your diet and all these other factors. You know, having poor digestion will highly influence what’s growing and not growing.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool. Anything else you want to say about, um, the different families of bacteria so the conventional thinking is Bacteroides is very helpful very important to have in your tummy in good amounts, uh, Firmicutes the high levels of this one tends to so that you know the B for Bacteroides, B for beautiful, very beneficial. Firmicutes, one of these ones where high levels increase calorie extraction which potentially some correlation with weight gain in the literature. Any comments on these?

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah, so again, it’s all about balance. So Firmicutes is actually where a lot of those butyrate producers are. They’re in this category. So, both, you know, we can’t say that either one is good, one is bad but good guys and bad guys in both categories so it’s just all about having that balance there. And yes Firmicutes, they can, you know, make you retain more calories from your food so you could gain weight, if they’re abundant but I’m looking at if your Firmicutes is getting too high it’s probably you’re eating too many carbohydrates or you’re not digesting them. So again, if I see this high and your enzymes are low, I’m getting those enzymes in there and we’ll often see this balance out. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And then, you may want to address either fermentable, FODMAPs or even go lower carb as well?

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah, depending on it again, I look at symptoms, I mean I don’t want to starve the colonic bacteria, so I’m just, you know, a lot of times just finding which fibers are triggering symptoms, can we get some enzymes in there. There’re actually enzymes now that are specific for digesting high FODMAP foods and so I’ll bring in something like that where you know they’ll say, we’ll I love onions, but you know I just get such terrible gut pain afterwards. You take this enzyme, you can eat onions. So, your microbiome, loves onions, you know. Yes, they are highly fermentable they can cause more symptoms but if you get the proper enzymes in there, a lot times you’re fine and your gut microbiome will thrive on those foods. So, I’m very careful about what I take out, because you know, I don’t want to trigger symptoms but I also don’t want to starve bacteria.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Um, very good. And then what about increasing Bacteroidetes, is anything specific to help with that? 

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah, so maybe again, it’s something you know, if they’re low we think about, you know, fiber again the whole like more plant-focused foods but something too we know about Bacteroidetes, they don’t like excessive fermentation, so that’s where again, I look and connect the dots here. H. pylori showed up, H. pylori in most people causes low stomach acid. If your acids low, you’re probably excessively fermenting your food. Bacteroidetes don’t like the pH shift that occurs as a result of that, so they’re just not going to do well. You know a lot of these bugs what’s growing is going to be determined by pH and oxygen levels. So, chances are, you know, if you get some plenty of fiber in the diet get rid of that H. pylori that’s suppressing the acid causing excessive fermentation, these again could just balance out. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very good. Excellent. And anything else? Let’s hit the dysbiotic bacteria section. So, these are quite frequently going to be found in general dysbiosis or SIBO right? Um, Bacillus is kind of this beneficial spore like probiotic that you get in megaspore or thrive or lot of these newer probiotics that are out. Why don’t you take it from there so with this one there’s a certain threshold that you like to see it stay below but if it’s a little bit high, is that okay? 

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah. So, bacillus actually, a healthy gut should have some Bacillus in it so this is one we actually see a number next to that Bacillus species on every single report. So, an e4 e5 is actually pretty typical. With this one, I’m actually more concerned if I see a less than DL. To me, that’s more of a deficiency of this. So, you know, if it’s low, I mean, again we think about the diet and all those things we can supplement since we do have them available in probiotic form. Now, if it’s high there’s been a link between poor digestion and excessive levels. So, if it’s going high, I tend to think, okay what’s going on with stomach acid with enzymes with all of those things. So, that’s what I’m usually supporting if it’s getting high. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very good. Excellent. Probiotic, enzymes if it’s getting high. Anything else with restriction of carbohydrate or FODMAPs at all?

Lisa Pomeroy:  With that one, I don’t usually do too so much. It’s more just uh focusing on if something’s causing low stomach acid like H. pylori. We need to deal with that bigger issue but it’s often more just poor digestion, digestive dysfunction.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool! Anything you want to say about the general dysbiotic bacteria below? We can start with the despotic section. I mean, is there any rhyme or reason of why one may proliferate in someone’s gut over another or is it just kind of the dumb luck of you know, too much sugar, too much carbs, antibiotic exposure, not cough beneficial flora to compete? How does like, why would one proliferate over another?

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah, so there’s definitely certain conditions that will promote some over others. Like we see, Klebsiella there in that bottom section. It not only causes inflammation but it loves inflammation. If your gut becomes inflamed, it’s going to bloom. So, with this one if your gut is inflamed because you have a, you know, crappy diet because eating a bunch of food additives and proinflammatory foods. You’re lacking those good butyrate producers. You know, all of these things have changed in your gut to make it inflamed that’s gonna make your Klebsiella very happy and it’s gonna become overly abundant like this or things like, you know, certain things have been tied in the research with low stomach acid. So Streptococcus, you know, one of the top things, you’re going to see with low stomach acid again this individual is dealing with H. pylori. So, we’re probably going to see some high Streptococcus, which we do. Besides Streptococcus, Staphylococcus tends to show up with low stomach acid. Again, right above that there it is and Enterococcus. Now, Enterococcus here was more a moderate overgrowth but still it is showing up a little bit which it’s fitting with this pattern. The more things that you have showing up that fit that pattern the stronger it is. So, I’d say, the enterococcus, the Staph, the Strep, Klebsiella will see more with low stomach acid and even Pseudomonas. Pseudomonas thrives when there’s a lot of undigested protein around. So that’s another one where, this page to me looks like a classic consequence of having low stomach acid. So again, we have to think upstream what’s causing them, that correct that but we also may bring in some antimicrobial herbs because this has gotten to such a state where we may not be able to just get rid of these by dealing with those bigger upstream issues like H. pylori and low enzymes at this point.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, the Enterococcus, Staph, Strep, and Klebsiella, when you see them elevated, there’s going to be more of a connection with low stomach acid and probably low enzymes too because those are connected as well right?

Lisa Pomeroy: Exactly! We often call this the digestive dysfunction pattern.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay. How do artificial sweeteners impact this or even things like pesticides will they have a kind of negative impact like an antibiotic. How does that work? 

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah, they can. That’s what they find a lot of the artificial sweeteners they find that they tend to kill things like Lactobacillus and Bifidobacterium, and yet they promote a lot of times it’s this one other phylum which is called Proteobacteria, so Klebsiella is a member of Proteobacteria. Pseudomonas is a member of Proteobacteria. But they’re really virulent, more proinflammatory organisms that will tend to bloom again with more inflamed conditions higher oxygen and they also tend to go up when we have food additives and chemicals and pesticides and all of that. So, you see a lot of the research, it’s kind of like the, the bad dysbiosis pattern you’ll see is these high Proteobacteria, like again, high Klebsiella, high Pseudomonas, with low butyrate producers like for Firmicutes, low Clostridia, low Faecalibacterium prausnitzii. So too many proinflammatory bugs not enough anti-inflammatory bugs. 

 Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it. And so lower butyrate, uh, not enough anti-inflammatory bugs and that’s more with what Provatella, Proteus, Fusobacterium, was the big ones there?

Lisa Pomeroy: Those are gonna be your more proinflammatory ones again. Yeah. Anything in your potential odder will trigger susception. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: with low butyrate

Lisa Pomeroy: With low butyrate, yeah. Because that’s going to change the environment that will promote their growth. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And so, when you are working on producing butyrate, can things just like butter which is butyric acid, can that have an influence? Are you trying to also add in potential resistant starch or probiotic fibers or adding just actual Butyrate in there? What are, what are your thoughts on each one of those and what do you do to try to impact butyrate?

Lisa Pomeroy:  Sure, yeah. I mean, butter or ghee it does have some butyric acid or butyrate. It’s just, it’s so small, it’d be hard to get therapeutic amounts plus a lot of people are dairy sensitive especially when their gut is damaged and leaky. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Can be for sure

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah. So, if I’m going to supplement or try to get more butyrate in, I look at, I mean, we could use a tributyrin supplement, you know that can be really great like if I see, if all the butyrate producers are low and their calprotectin is high which is telling me their gut is inflamed and they have a lot of GI discomfort and they also have a lot of food sensitivities. Getting that butyrate in there directly can often calm things down or diarrhea. Butyrate can be terrific for diarrhea. We’ve seen chronic diarrhea that’s been going on for years or decades. Stop within a week of giving some tributyrin. So, sometimes I do give butyrate directly or IBD I’ll often use some butyrate directly because the gut is so inflamed that can be really helpful. But a lot of times, you know, people don’t necessarily want another supplement. You know if I’m not seeing those major signs where I definitely want to add it in, I may just be let’s feed the butyrate producers. Yes, we can give the end product but you’re still not feeding them, you know, I always think of like the butyrate is more like giving you healthy soil that’s going to promote their growth but you still got to feed them. They’re not gonna grow if you don’t feed them. So, you got to get the fiber in there, so I look at, you know, you can feed them with the fiber, you could get the butyrate in there and maybe you want to do both. They find that actually giving the butyrate and the fiber which is promoting the environment and giving the fertilizer to feed them, you get an even stronger impact. So many different options what we may do, any combination of those.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, if it’s only those bacteria are in the lower sides. If they’re higher, would you also still want to do that?

Lisa Pomeroy: Depends what we’re seeing, I mean, again, if the gut is highly inflamed, I may bring it in or there’s terrible diarrhea, I may do it more for symptomatic relief. But, you know, if those bacteria are in good shape, you know, we don’t necessarily need to do that to encourage them to grow by shaping the environment but there’s still other reasons, we might use butyrate. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Is it more of a concern when they’re higher or lower?

Lisa Pomeroy:  It’s low that it’s more there’s usually a deficit of the short chain fatty acid butyrate if they’re low because if there’s low population, they’re not making enough butyrate 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s less than DL you’re looking at, right less than DL

Lisa Pomeroy: Yes, these aren’t the butyrate, those are on the previous page, um.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You’re talking about the commensal stuff here.

Lisa Pomeroy: Yep. Yeah. So, the three markers that represent them are the Firmicutes phyla, at the very bottom. Yup, the Clostridium class and then Faecalibacterium prausnitzii. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, got it. These are the big three, Clostridium, Faecalibacterium and Firmicutes, these are the big butyrate producers. 

Lisa Pomeroy: So, there’s low, if they’re low you just could try feeding them or if the guts really inflamed again, they don’t like an inflamed environment so you may bring the butyrate in to try to take down some of the inflammation and then give them the fiber and now they’re really gonna grow. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it. Okay. Very cool. Anything else you want to say about the like Citrobacter or these despotic bacteria individually, I mean, a lot of these are gonna be commonly found in SIBO right, but because it’s a stool test and all of it, it’s moving through the intestines, we wouldn’t necessarily say this SIBO unless we had like a breath test but we could say that’s a kind of a generalized dysbiosis.

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah. And some of these bacteria we look at like Klebsiella, Pseudomonas, they just live in the small intestine that’s just their area that they hang out but it’s not necessarily SIBO, you know, yes, they’re in the small intestine but SIBO is when there’s too many overall bacteria in the small intestine, sometimes you just have a dysbiosis. You know, it may just there’s not, overall, it’s just Klebsiella and Pseudomnas are too high. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And so, you’re gonna utilize like a breath test, a lactulose, where you’re looking at hydrogen and methane gases and see if they’re really elevated to really know that. 

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah. If you wanted to see more of that SIBO picture, is there too many bacteria in the small intestine because maybe you had food poisoning incident before and your migrating motor complex that kind of that street sweeper isn’t working well to push the bacteria out. But if I’m looking at these, yes, these are in the small intestine, they’re overgrowing you know, maybe there’s other things overgrowing in the small intestine with them but you know to me it’s something, I’m looking at, you know, low stomach acid, low enzymes, is a huge factor with bacteria in the small intestine. So many cases, we can work on digestion, H. pylori, get some antimicrobials in there and often takes care of those whether even though, they’re in the small intestine versus a colon.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Cool. Anything else you wanna say about these individual dysbiotic critters?

 Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah. Well, Klebsiella, since this one shows up, these are, you know, besides being very proinflammatory, they are putting, you know, putting you at increased risk of perhaps developing autoimmune condition. So, like Klebsiella is something that’s been linked with rheumatoid arthritis, ankylosing spondylitis, IBD. So, if you had that perfect storm, if you have the bacteria which is your trigger, you have a leaky gut and you have the genetics that make you predisposed to getting say rheumatoid arthritis. It could lead to that down growth. So that’s we’re seeing signs, you know, maybe you don’t have rheumatoid arthritis now, but 10 years, 20 years, 30 years from now, if you don’t do anything about Klebsiella, it could turn into that. So that’s where again we look from a functional medicine perspective, you know, we wanna try to head off a lot of these symptoms too and that’s where we can get a glimpse into that now, with the stool testing to try to get rid of this. Now, so it doesn’t become a future problem. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool. Anything else you wanna say on these down below the Proteus or the Fusobacterium?

Lisa Pomeroy: Uhm. Yeah. Now, some of these actually live in the mouth, so Klebsiella lives in the mouth, Provatella lives in the mouth, Fusobacterium lives in the mouth. So, we can’t forget other microbiomes too. So, they’re part of the oral microbiome. And there’s actually a lot of overlap. I think it’s like 45% of the microbes are similar between the two. So, we always have to look at oral health, dental health, if someone has issues in their mouth maybe they need to get their teeth cleaned, get an infection dealt with. Because if you’re swallowing these bacteria every day in your saliva. Now, if you have low stomach acid, you don’t kill them very well as they pass through the stomach so you could get too many in your intestinal tract because there’s low stomach acid but you could also too many in your intestinal tract because there’s too many in your mouth. So, we have to be always looking at the health of the mouth too and what’s coming above the GI tract. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’m a big fan of flexing either with colloidal silver or hydrogen peroxide and if you’re sensitive you can always dilute at 3%, that’s very helpful at knocking down some of those bugs, do you agree? 

Lisa Pomeroy: Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. A lot of people like water picks and they’ll do different things and mix and sometimes they’ll alternate too and yep and even the nasal, I mean you have to figure, you know, what’s you know, is being swallowed there from the nasal passages. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Post nasal drip stuff

Lisa Pomeroy: Yep, we’ll squirt some silver or something up to the nose too to try to kill something that’s in there, that’s being swallowed and getting down in the gut.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very good. Let’s dive into yeast. I typically don’t see a lot of yeast come back on these labs. When I do it’s usually beneath the reference range sometimes it’s positive but a lot of times I tell patients, if I see it here and it’s not DL then it’s probably a concern. I mean on the organic acid testing which we can talk about at a later point we’ll see things like D-arabinitol or D-arabinose, which is a really good yeast, uh, marker which does, I do find that tends to come up a little bit more frequently than, uh, this test. What’s your take here?

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah. So, yeast again, we have to keep in mind, it can grow lots of places. You know, it can grow in the mouth, in the stomach, in the small intestine, in the large intestine

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Skin, Fingernails

Lisa Pomeroy: The skin, yeah. So, I mean of course, anything outside of the GI tract is not gonna show up in the stool. If you have a toenail and fun-fungal infection a scalp fungal infection. It’s not gonna come out in your poop unless it’s also in your gut. So, we always have to keep in mind people say oh I have a yeast problem at my toenail, why didn’t it show up. It’s like probably localized to your toenail. Now, of course, again, we have the dilution factor. If you have thrush, if it’s more in your mouth and not so much in your colon, we may not see a hug amount in the stool or even in the stomach because it’s gonna be diluted out as it travels, so this is really good at looking at like especially the lower bowel because it’s right there ready to exit. The higher up in the GI tract you get, the more dilution is going to play a role into it. Where sometimes maybe you will see it more in organic acids in a urine test than in the stool. If it is a little more upper GI. although, I mean we do pick up DNA that’s coming down from the mouth, the stomach as H. pylori shows up small intestine. But this is something where if it’s detected at all to me that’s a problem because yeast overgrowth tends to cause a lot of symptoms especially hits the gut and the brain. So, a lot of people will say yeah, I have the gas the bloating, you know, the constipation, the diarrhea but it’s also the brain fog, the memory loss, I can’t remember where I put my keys, it’s no cognac, I just, my brain doesn’t work like it used to. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: The acetaldehyde produced from Candida right?

Lisa Pomeroy: Exactly. Candida produces so many toxins, a lot of those affect the brain or they have the, the sugar cravings so it’s like, I want to get healthy and I want to stop eating all these carbs and candy bars and everything but I just can’t, you know, It’s the Candida calling out for. So, you gotta knock out the Candida. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: On the extreme side, you could have auto brewery system, um, syndrome, when you’re actually creating your own fermentation with it. The story of this is true, a gentleman got pulled over and he was tested being drunk on the breathalyzer but it was actually yeast in his gut that like made their own little brewery in there and created alcohol from that metabolism that got him drunk and a lot of cognitive people that feel drunk, feel brain fog, it could be from that yeast and all that fermentation happening 

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah, and other organisms can do that too, Klebsiella, another one that could do that too. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Ah, interesting. Good, very cool. And then, does it matter, I mean obviously Candida tends to be the bigger yeast most people know about that and you have some subspecies here. Any difference is it, does it matter, are you treating them the same way? Do they differentiate in symptoms at all?

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah. It’s hard to say in symptoms I mean a lot of the yeast behave the same, a lot of times we’re doing similar protocols anti-fungal, you know, fatty acids like caprylic acid, undecylenic acid, herbs like Pau D’Arco, berberine, oregano, so we’re typically addressing them the same. Now, these are all can be normal inhabitants of the gut like Candida, it’s, you should have Candida in your gut. You know, it has a purpose, the whole thing is it’s all about balance. You get too much of it creates all these toxins and excess you can get symptoms. So same thing with these and some of them are actually in your environment like Rhodotorula is something that we sometimes see a little bit of that showing up and certain areas of the country seem to have it more just in the environment. It’s kind like a pink colored fungi. So, I tell people like do you have like a pink colored ring around your toilet or your tub something like that in your bathroom, it could be Rhodotorula. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting. Anything else in this?

Lisa Pomeroy: That’s the main thing with the yeast there. Yeah. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: How about the viruses?

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah. So, the main reason, the viruses are on the panel is when these viruses are reactivated in the colon, they’ve been linked with IBD. So, we’re looking for that association there with you know colonic viral reactivation.  Now of course we know that these viruses can live in many organs and tissues like Epstein-barr virus and the thyroid gland. So, it doesn’t mean if these don’t show up that you don’t have the virus somewhere else in your thyroid, liver but this is looking more of the IBD colonic link. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool and we have different parasites as well, we kind of already chatted about Blasto earlier, but can you give us kind of the reader’s digest from on the critters here, on the bugs. 

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah, so again, all of these can cause symptoms in some cases very severe now these the ones I’d say tend to cause the worst symptoms, would be the Blastocystis hominis and Dientamoeba fragilis. Especially in kids, we can see, you know, kids with just terrible tummy aches and pain and issues maybe failure to thrive they’re just a little underweight for their age and you know, just a lot of behavioral issues. We see Dientamoeba fragilis come out a lot. Both the Blasto and D. fragilis have been linked with IBS and studies. So, we do often see some quite significant symptoms with them. Uh, now some of the oddball things, extra intestinal you may see, you know, with like joint pain, I think, Blasto and Endolimax nana is another one. I’ve had a lot of people where it’s like I think I have Lyme disease and so we’ve run a lot of good because Lyme disease, you need a good test because it’s hard to find. But if you do a good Lyme disease test, you know, when it comes up negative, you know, we’ve had people do that and it’s like, we’ll it’s negative what do I have, I mean, this joint pain is awful and it’s Endolimax nana, so it has affinity for collagen related tissues, so you can see some pretty nasty joint muscle tendon, ligament issues with that one.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: This is more collagen based huh?

Lisa Pomeroy: That’s the Endolimax nana.  

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh yeah. 

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah, yeah so that’s what I look for with that one well I’ll, you know, if I see it show up and they’ll say well I have no gut symptoms. It’s like, well when you work out at the gym, do you see an injury prone where it’s like oh I was lifting weights and now I twisted my shoulder and oh, now it’s trying to run and now my ankle hurts and you know or they just go I’m you know 29 and I work out, I go for a run and I’m so sore and stiff in the morning. I don’t think I should feel like this for 29 years old. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. 

Lisa Pomeroy: Yep. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool. Anything else on these Pentatrichomonas at all? 

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah, I mean again, some of these just vague, just general gut related symptoms. You know, any of these really could cause gas bloating, abdominal pain, discomfort, constipation or diarrhea. So you know, just general like IBS type symptoms. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool.  Anything about the worms? I don’t see the worms come back as much. I really don’t. Do you?

Lisa Pomeroy: Well, we don’t see a lot of worms, you know, fortunately because they are a little trickier, you know, we often do recommend deworming medications because it is very difficult to kill them with natural means. But yeah, worms can be quite nasty, um, you know, some of these are, you know, small intestine too, and things like the you know, Ascaris is a roundworm, you know, it doesn’t, you know, some of these worms like the, the hookworms and things, they actually attach to the bowel wall, so they kind of stay in place, I mean, they could, you know, suck your blood and stuff, you know, get the nutrients from the blood. But Ascaris is kind of free-floating there and the problems is because it’s free-floating, it’s not attached, it sometimes gets into places where we really don’t want it and so they found it migrating into things like your gallbladder and you know, your lungs and other places so that one, I mean the big issue with these worms are they can create blockages in some cases with those big worms, you know, sometimes, there can be blood loss, nutritional deficiencies too because if they’re you know sucking your blood and damaging your gut, you could have impaired nutritional absorption. Now, in the U.S., we typically, don’t see these massive infections where there’s like a big ball of worms but you could have a couple worms and they could be causing a lot of issues. Yeah. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting. Very good. And then anything else with the, I think, the Trichuris, that’s the whipworm, right? Um, Nicator, is that a hook I think, not sure hook or whip but either way. Different, different, other different worms there, which we’re gonna treat either with, you know, typical medication like Mebendazole, Albendazole, Vermox, or higher dose wormwood or Artemisinin, also tends to be very helpful with some of these too. 

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah. And again, some of these, they all have different ways you can get infected, like some of them it could be walking barefoot on a sandy beach, you know, others it could be. Yeah. some of those worms

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Trichuris

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah. And in others you could be, you know, you’re exposed to it through like there’s pork tapeworms and you know beef tapeworms and stuff so again it’s looking at food quality and making sure that it’s cooked thoroughly. You don’t want to go to a restaurant and get the rare hamburger or be eating, you know, a rare

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Make sure, its good restaurant, make sure the quality is good. 

Lisa Pomeroy: Exactly.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Make sure it’s like Wagyu from like a five-star restaurant at least. Yeah, for sure. 

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Cool. And then down below, we have a couple of markers here out of the gates. The steatocrit right, which is the marker for maldigested fat, so if we see a lot of fat in the stool we’re thinking of potentially either gallbladder flow issues, maybe stones that are affecting the flow maybe we don’t have enough acids because acid is really important for the gallbladder to trigger and contract make CCK, elastase and another marker for the pancreas and enzyme production and again if you have low enzymes, um, HCl or acids is an important stimulator for making and activating enzymes. Any comments on those?

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah. So exactly.  Yeah. so steatocrit has to do with fat malabsorption. Now ideally, I’d like to see a less than DL here. So, I really don’t want to see malabsorbed fat showing up in the stool. Like this one. Isn’t terrible at six so six percent of the stool was some undigested fat but it’s still it’s not ideal, I’m looking for signs why might that be, is there a bile issue, is there a lipase issue. Those are the major things that are digesting your fat, your bile from them you know, produced by the liver, secreted by the gallbladder or lipase is a pancreatic enzyme so for me then you know, if I see this, I look at the elastase one to go, okey what’s the lipase looking like. Elastase, one healthy control usually above 500. So, this individual, I’d say okay, Lipase is probably a little low because were only 388, so chances are if we get a good pancreatic enzyme in here with a nice amount of lipase, will clear up this fat malabsorption too. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool. And then any feedback on the Beta glucuronidase, well that’s a, I mean, we’ll just like talk about it out of the, out of the bat. This one has a major effect from dysbiotic bacteria producing it right and so but it also can affect hormone metabolism so you have these bad bugs maybe it’s Klebsiella or gram-negative bacteria like Proteus or Citrobacter. It’s gonna make this enzyme that is going to take conjugated estrogen and it’s gonna deconjugate it and allow the estrogen to go back into the circulation. Comments there?

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. We look at sources. Now, bacteria is the number one thing I look for. Do we have those species over growing that produce it so then I go flip back to page two and three and go, do we have E. coli, do we have high Bacteroidetes or Bacteroides fragilis, uh, do we have 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So you may look here, so you may look at Bacteroides, you may look at E. coli or what else? Anything else? 

Lisa Pomeroy: Uh, the Bacteroides fragilis, Bacteroides fragilis at the top there. Um, Clostridium class and Firmicutes phylum some species, I mean those are large groups but there’s some in there, if those are high it may also be coming from there. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Now, this person doesn’t have a lot of those either and they still have it. 

Lisa Pomeroy: They don’t, yeah. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Again, it’s a sample but

Lisa Pomeroy: Yep. Now the next page do they have Staphylococcus. Uh, they do and really high, yeah, we have Staphylococcus species. Staphylococcus can also produce it. So, this person, I’d be going, okay maybe the Staphylococcus is the where it’s coming from so if we get the staff down, we could bring this down. Yeah, the problem is especially we look at you know say this is a you know a menstruating female. You know, she’s producing a lot of estrogen and she can’t get rid of that estrogen so they say beta glucuronidase kind of comes around like a pair of scissors so say you know your toxin your estrogen goes to the liver goes through glucuronidation which is a detox pathway and the body kind of packages it up nice and neat for elimination so it puts the estrogen in a box puts the lid on the box ties and nice little bow around the box. Well, your beta glucuronidase comes around like a pair of scissors snips of ribbon, lifts the lid, let’s the estrogen out so now estrogen gets to get reabsorbed recirculate and now you get estrogen dominance so now you have PMS and menstrual cramps and breast tenderness and all of those types of symptoms. So, yep. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very good. And then occult blood, we could see this potentially from blood in the stool, ulcerations, could be ulcerations in the stomach working its way down a lot of times I find It could be from hemorrhoids. It’s a common one too. The outer veins and the rectum area. They’re just, they’re dripping a little bit or the women out there on their menses too that could potentially drive that you’d be back there 

Lisa Pomeroy: Exactly, yeah so ideally, I like to see under five that would be considered negative. 5-9 that’s where we often think oh, did you collect during your period, are you constipated, do you have hemorrhoids, no, that’s a typical range, anal fissures, maybe a constipated there’s a little tear or something. Above a 10 that’s our red flag because above a 10 we have to consider that you know this could be IBD, colorectal cancer, polyps and we just don’t want to miss any kind of pathology here. So, this is where we look to see is there something that makes sense or a diagnosis that makes sense say I see an occult blood of 35 well the person has ulcerative colitis. Okay now, we know why there may be blood it makes sense. But if it’s a 35 and there’s no known reason for this to be then we may need to repeat it, you know some of the acute pathogens again. If we go back to page one that E. coli, you know, uh, the 0157. That one can cause bloody stool. So, say that they got this nasty E. coli from a hamburger. Yep. And the, the EHEC, the enterohemorrhagic E. coli. Yeah. So, they could cause bloody stool so maybe, if there was a little bit of blood it was from an E. coli or something just passing through. So, if it’s above a 10 we often start by just repeating the occult blood to see was it some fluky thing where it was an acute pathogen or something but if you get two positive occult bloods it’s often referring out to see, you maybe need a colonoscopy because again we just don’t want to miss, we’ve caught early-stage colon cancer by catching some of these, you know, occult blood levels that are creeping up. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: uhum, absolutely. And then we have IgA which is gonna be an immune marker that’s you, your kind of your mucosal membrane that kind of hits all the mucuses, so mouth, intestinal tract, vaginal canal, urinary canal, so if we see something high, that could be some kind of an immune stress. Your immune system is fighting and going after, if it’s low it could be just chronic stress that’s depleted that immune system that made you more vulnerable. Any thoughts on that?

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah, exactly. I mean for me, low is a much bigger problem than high. High means the immune system’s working. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Working, yeah. It’s good. 

Lisa Pomeroy: yeah. It’s attacking some microbe or some food but I mean that’s what it’s supposed to do, if something’s threatening it, it should go up, it should try to resolve it. Low means that it’s just it’s burnt out from wear and tear that constant assault and it just can’t mount a response and when it’s low you’re going to be more vulnerable to the E. coli and the Yersinias and the H. Pylori and the parasites because this is our first line defense, you know, we got to have this nice and robust. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely and then gluten antibodies, how often do you see this positive and I find it’s gonna drop if someone’s on a healthy diet they could still be gluten sensitive but it will go down so it may not be the best indication of hey, you’re gluten sensitive, um, and you may get a false security because you kept your guten out and then you’re thinking, you’re okay and you can add it back in but it’s gonna be kind of exposure based, right?

Lisa Pomeroy: Exactly, yep. In order for the body to produce antibodies to something, it has to have that current exposure. Now, gluten antibodies can last three to six months in the system from a single exposure, so if they’ve had gluten in the last three to six months it could still be elevated from that but if someone if say they come in and they say I’ve been gluten free for five years, I shouldn’t be seeing elevated antibodies. If I am, there is a problem, it’s sneaking in somehow and we do often see this. I saw, I think two people earlier today who were diagnosed celiacs and it was high. That’s not good. That means that they’re still having that exposure so we’ve got to figure out where it’s coming from that is not a good thing and they’re telling you, really have to

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and what do you do when people are like, no I really haven’t been getting exposed. I tend to say well, is there cross contamination, is it potentially going high because maybe there’s an egg allergy or they’re eating some rice that’s technically gluten-free but could still react or is it still dairy thing what other foods could trigger that?

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah, so first I look for actual gluten cross contamination because most cases it’s actually gluten, they didn’t realize that the oats, oats will be contaminated with gluten unless they’re certified gluten-free so it could be they’re eating their regular old quaker oats, you know, they’re gonna have gluten, so we gonna look for those or they’re sprouted bread. Yeah, it’s Ezekiel bread. It may have less gluten but still has gluten so we gotta look for that or oh my boyfriend eats gluten and I kiss him right after I, you know, after he eats the hamburger. That’s gonna be a step. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s possible.  

Lisa Pomeroy: Or they kissed their dog, they feed their dog, regular gluten kibble and they kiss their dog. So, I looked at all of those, um, and they found that you know, eating out in restaurants. They did this great study a couple years back and they said about a third of all restaurant meals that you’re being told are gluten-free tested positive when they’re actually tested and that went up to 50% for gluten-free pizza and gluten-free pasta. So basically, if you go out to a restaurant, you order the gluten-free pizza or pasta, it’s a 50 50 shot whether you’re actually getting gluten or not. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. It tends to be, usually if you’re going out, if you’re getting like a steak or some steamed vegetables, usually you’re okay tends to be more in the sauces, the thickeners or even a spice and so worst case you just, you season it yourself with your own sea salt at the table or something just to make sure it’s its clean. 

Lisa Pomeroy: And some things too, I mean I actually you know because I am gluten sensitive, you know, gluten triggers Hashimoto’s for me. So, I went gluten-free like 14 years ago and my antibodies dropped and never come back because I’ve stayed gluten free. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s great.

Lisa Pomeroy: But I do test. I have this little testing device and you could put a pea sized portion of the food in the device, it takes about three minutes and it’ll tell you if it had gluten or not. So, I will test if I buy some new food, especially if it says manufactured in the same warehouse with wheat, dairy and all that kind of stuff or if I don’t know say if I want to eat, I can put the food in the device and know if its gluten-free or not. So 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow, so what’s this device called?

Lisa Pomeroy: It’s called Nima. It’s N-I-M-A. So, it’s a Nima, Nima Partners Company, you can buy it through. It’s cool little device, you have to buy these capsules that are one-time use but you put the food in the device, so anytime I buy anything new any packaged food, even supplements, I run it through my Nima. Because, I was being glutened by a cinnamon powder like I run one of these tests on myself and my anti-gliadin was a little high and I thought was a test wrong that this is impossible I’ve, I’ve been gluten free for over a decade this got to be wrong so I bought a Nima then this a few years back and tested everything I was eating and an organic cinnamon powder the company grinds fresh in their facility tested positive and I was eating this almost every day. I stopped eating it, seven months later retested, antibodies gone. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow, okay. We’ll put a link up on screen put it on the show notes that’s uh, that’s crazy, very cool. 

Lisa Pomeroy: If I’ve ruled out that, that’s the first thing I look for because the majority of people, it is just gluten contamination. Now if we’ve ruled that out then I looked at okay there’s about six foods that are cross-reacted with gluten, there’s dairy, there’s yeast, there’s corn, there’s millet. So, then we start to look at 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: other things

Lisa Pomeroy: Yep. Other things that you know if you’re continuing to eat dairy then maybe there’s an issue there. Yeah, it’s, they recently changed the website, I think it’s Nimapartners.com

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay cool. I’ll put it below in the show notes. Anyone’s listening back and you’ll get that. That’s great. 

Lisa Pomeroy: So sometimes we have to remove cross-reactive foods so there can be other factors but you know, the problem is once you’ve lost oral tolerance to gluten, you can’t get it back. It’s the only food we know of that your body creates memory B cells to so, it is something like for me being gluten-free for like 14 years I shouldn’t have antibodies but if I start eating gluten again, I will have antibodies because I’ve lost oral tolerance. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s why I like the genetic test because you don’t have to necessarily challenge it or know you, if you have the HLA DQ2 or eight or you know one alpha, one beta, one or three then it’s a good chance that you have that those gluten sensitivities and you should probably stay away from it. 

Lisa Pomeroy: Um, yeah. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Any feedback on the genetic testing for the gluten. 

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah, I think it’s helpful, I like all these tests, I mean they always give you a little different piece of information so I think it’s helpful, you know a lot of times correlating the genetics with what we’re seeing here. So, I mean the genetics don’t tell you, you are having a problem versus this tells you are having a current problem. So, I like both and sometimes people need the information from both because just seeing the genetics, you know, they go, well I could have a problem but is that enough you know, a motivational factor to keep me from eating gluten versus I see this and it’s high then I know, okay, my body is really not happy right now because of the gluten I’m eating. I definitely need to go gluten-free. So, it depends what motivates someone and again if they haven’t eating gluten for a while, I don’t want them challenging it, you know, they could certainly again run this as is like myself eating the cinnamon, I though, I was gluten free but I was being glutened so it showed up. So, I tell people run the test as is look at your genetics and I’d rather you do that than reintroducing gluten and now starting that inflammatory cascade that’s going to last for three to six months. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool. Well let’s just wrap this up, your last couple of markers and by the way, I know we chatted about, uh, probably a little bit ambitious wanting to go into the, uh, the ion panel but I’d love to have you back soon, Lisa and really dive into the ion panel. Would you be open to that?

Lisa Pomeroy: I would, I love talking lab test interpretation. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool, so out of the gate here, calprotectin, really good tests for inflammation produced by the white blood cells in the intestinal tract, it’s a protein and of course, Zonulin is that protein, that’s a sign that those tight junctions are being unzipped in the intestinal tract and potential gut permeability. Comments on that?

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah. So, calprotectin is a kind of a general marker for intestinal inflammation. Now with IBD, we can see this exceptionally high. Usually, yeah, the two things that are going to cause your highest levels are acute pathogens so again something like that nasty food poisoning E. coli or something like your IBD type thing. You could see upper hundreds or even thousands with that. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah 

Lisa Pomeroy: Ideally, I wanna see under 50. So, a lot of people will see things like an 87 or a 120 where I go that’s higher than I’d like, so again, we start looking at, okay, what’s causing this colonic inflammation, again, are you lacking butyrate producers, do you have too many of these proinflammatory bugs, do you have a parasite like Blasto hanging out in your colon. So, we’re looking at all those other factors that could be causing inflammation. Or again, some of the food additives, you know, maybe you like to go your grocery store and get rotisserie chicken. A lot of rotisserie chickens have Carrageenan in them. Carrageenan is a known proinflammatory food additive. So, there’s little things we can sometimes do to bring down our gut inflammation but yeah, so that one’s gonna tell you about if your gut is inflamed or not, Zonulin tells you if your gut is leaky. Now Zonulin will, you know, go up, you know, it’s triggered by things like gluten and gram-negative bacteria. They have an endotoxin, LPS in them. So, gluten and LPS are the top two triggers for Zonulin, so again I’m looking for is antigliadin high, do you have a lot of these bacteria that are overgrowing or again do you eat GMO foods like glyphosate is another trigger for Zonulin. So, if this is high, we need to look for, what’s triggering it and then we’re probably gonna need to do some gut repair, you know, maybe we want an L-glutamine based powder, you know, because we want to make sure that the gut damage is being healed up the tight junctions are restored, the integrity of the gut barrier is restored. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool. And then Lisa, you’ve given us so much information here. This is excellent. I’m going to recommend this to my patients here to get a kind of a little bit more of a deeper dive, if they want more intel. This is excellent. Um, if people wanna find out more about you, where’s the best place to go? 

Lisa Pomeroy: Yeah. So, I have a couple different websites, I work with practitioners and right now I’m, you know my practice is closed to taking in new clients but, you know, may open up in the future, so my more client website is my last name Pomeroy, so pomeroynaturalhealth.com. Now, if there are practitioners who want more, you know, help on lab interpretation for their patients or if they’re interested in the different training courses I created, that website for practitioners is pomeroyinstitute.com

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: pomeroynaturalhealth.com for patients. pomeroyinstitute.com for practitioners. We’ll put the links below here, so people can get to that faster. Anything else you want to leave listeners today with, Lisa?

Lisa Pomeroy: Um, I guess, just you know, they say all health begins in the gut and I’m a believer of that because I had so many issues, I mean, you almost name a pathogen on this report I’ve had it. Everything from roundworms to just about every Protozoa to H. pylori. You know, I’ve had it all and I know how much, you know, it just wreaked havoc on my gut for decades so starting very young. You know, my parents would always think she’s coming down with a stomach flu because she just puked out of the blue. You know, it was just the H. pylori and everything else, my low enzymes. So, I had just terrible terrible gut and so I mean for me was the functional lab testing that found these issues. I mean, that found the H. pylori, the parasites, the low enzymes, everything else and I just think you know for me it’s just so important on why I get so passionate about this. For me, it was giving me the answers that I needed to restore my health. So 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent. Well, you have a great story at least, you did an excellent job for sending me information and I think uh, people that are watching are getting a lot of information out of it. So really appreciate it, look forward to have you back on the show real soon.  


References:

https://pomeroyinstitute.com/

https://pomeroynaturalhealth.com/

Audio Podcast:

https://justinhealth.libsyn.com/why-is-my-digestion-broken-lab-test-interpretation-of-gi-map-with-lisa-pomeroy-podcast-335

Recommended products:

DSL GI-MAP Genetic Stool Test

International DSL GI MAP Genetic Stool Test

Glyphosate and Chemical Detox | Podcast #334

Most people don’t realize that glyphosate is not just found in farm fields and on GMO crops but is lurking in your next-door neighbor’s garage and your neighborhood park, on the local golf course, or in your kid’s playground. You can find glyphosate on nearly 100 non-GMO food crops, including vegetables, fruit, nuts, seeds, and cereals like wheat and oats. You can find it in wine, beer, ice cream, and pretty much everything else. Also, you wouldn’t imagine in a whole host of ingredients, such as corn starch, beet and cane sugar, and even honey!

Glyphosate interrupts the body’s ability to turn natural sulfites from food into sulfates that the body needs to detox and stay healthy. High sulfate levels heal the gut while supporting the absorption of many vital nutrients. Sulfates assist in clear brain fog and improve memory through increased blood flow.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

In this podcast, we cover:

1:27  Glyphosate (what it is, how it works)

8:42  Clean Water, Osmosis Water Filter

17:12 Powerful Antioxidants

23:23 Water Plunge, Saunas

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Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And we are live. It’s Dr. J here in the house with Evan, Evan, how we doing today, my friend? Really excited to chat with you. 

Evan Brand: Yeah. Likewise, and this is a big topic. So Huh, you got hundreds of millions of pounds of glyphosate being sprayed on our beautiful Mother Earth every year. It’s terrible, how much is being sprayed. If you look at the stats, they just go up and up and up and up and up. And we have GMO corn and soybean accounting for the major places that people are being sprayed. So if you’re simply just cutting out, yep, those foods from your diet, and you’re eating animals that don’t feed on the soybean and corn, you’ve already done a great job. But but that’s not enough, because I recently spoke with Stephanie senath, who’s been educating and researching about glyphosate. And she’s talked about which you and I’ve known for a long time, but it’s good to hear somebody else validate the research is, it’s in the water supply, it’s in the food, it’s in the air, it’s everywhere. So you really have to put in a detox protocol on going to be able to deal with this because even parts per billion levels of glyphosate act as an antibiotic and will kill beneficial bacteria in the gut. And you and I, we don’t necessarily call ourselves gi specialist, but we are when it comes to naturally approaching gut infections and restoring gut integrity and gut health. And part of that is getting the glyphosate out of the system. So we can truly allow our beneficial bacteria to thrive. So that’s kind of the setting the stage of where we’re where we’re going today. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. So glyphosate is essentially roundup. Right? It’s essentially Roundup, it’s a pesticide. And so essentially how it works, it’s a mineral key later. So what it does is it basically thrips away or, or kind of as a magnet of all the key lay of all the minerals away from the plant. And so essentially by robbing the plan of all those minerals that essentially kills it is that the major mechanism and how that works. 

Evan Brand: Yeah, it inhibits the photosynthesis, I don’t know the full chemistry behind it. But yeah, basically it starves the plant to death, and then the the byproduct, the byproduct or the the process of doing that, you’re robbing and basically cleaving off these amino acids. And that’s the problem. And that’s why it’s going to end up in joints and everywhere else in the body. Because the body’s trying to basically absorb the minerals, if you will, but by accident, it’s absorbing the glyphosate. So it’s number one thing is you got to go organic to get away from it. But the problem is, if you’re not filtering your water, if you’re not filtering your air, you’re probably still getting exposure there. Or if you eat out at restaurants, which even I and you and I, we try to do the best we can if we eat out, but we may get exposed to trace amounts there. And kids too. I mean, you send the kid with a school lunch, that’s organic, but if you don’t, they’re probably getting exposed to it there. And this stuff accumulates over time. And as Stephanie was talking about with me, the individual parts meaning like a little bit of glyphosate here, it’s a problem. But when you mix it with the dicamba and the 24D and all these other chemicals and the xylene and the gasoline additive chemicals and the plastics and the Falaise in the BPA and the other endocrine disruptors, that’s when you really get into trouble. So it’s important to hyper focus on one chemical like this, but I want people to just know, it’s the sum that really creates the problem. And you and I measure for this on the urine. So if people listening like, Well, what do I do? How do I investigate this problem, you simply do a urine urine sample. And we can measure this. And the fun part is when we get people on a detox protocol, and we retest, you can see the levels go down. And a lot of cases, we get the levels to nd non detected non detectable limits, that is the most exciting part. So I want to inspire hope with this too some of the stats are really depressing on it. But there is hope that you can get this stuff out of your body.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. And so the mechanism how it works is it’s a key later pulls that away, and also affects the protein synthesis of the plants. There’s a pathway there, it’s called the shikimic. It’s kind of a funny name, the shikimic pathway that affects you know, essentially the the protein synthesis of these plants. So it disrupts that it does it by disrupting protein synthesis. And it does it by collating away a lot of these important minerals. And I think that’s part of the reason why a lot of foods that are grown in Roundup, or glyphosate is used on them, I think you’re gonna also see a decrease in nutrient levels. Part of the means why is because it’s creating a lot of those minerals away from the plants. And the plants don’t have adequate minerals in the soil. And others there’s data on it like when there’s less manganese in the soil, the vitamin C production in that plant is less for instance. So we do know there’s a disruption, there’s a correlation with low minerals in the soil can have a major impact on the nutrient production by that plan as well. And so there’s a nutrient issue on one side, and then there’s also a toxicity issue. And we can go deeper into that. Any questions on that? 

Evan Brand: So the the big, the big problem with people is, here’s one of the mechanisms and people can check out the podcast. I mean, we don’t have to get into the the advanced chemistry. I mean, some of the stuff even goes over my head. But basically, one of the big problems is glyphosate is pretending to be glycine. And that’s what she talked about. Basically, it’s your body-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: it’s just an amino acid. 

Evan Brand: Right? So it’s looking for glycine, but then it sucks up glyphosate in place of it, right? That’s where you get into trouble.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, you kind of similar to what may happen in your body with iodine, and fluoride, for instance, or bromine, right, it’ll it’ll suck up your thyroid will suck up a lot of those nutrients which can impact its function because it’s not the primary nutrient it’s looking for. 

Evan Brand: And then here’s what it says advocates claim that glyphosate is not harmful to humans, as the shikimate pathway does not occur in humans. But the truth is, glyphosate enters our gut and primarily targets the good bacteria, and then that’s when you get the bacterial overgrowth. So that’s kind of what the industry will will counteract on let’s say, well, humans don’t have chicken meat pathways. That’s why it’s not dangerous. But the mechanism is that it’s killing the good bacteria in the gut. And it’s really an antibiotic that, you know, disguised as an herbicide. And so that’s the problem. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I think the big thing that if you look at some of the studies on the topic, where they look at glyphosates impact on the gut lining and the brush border, in the small intestine, the brush borders, what secretes a lot of enzymes and aids in digestion. And if you just look at the thinning out of the gut lining in the small intestine, and you look at the increase in gut permeability that can happen from that. All of those type of mechanisms are part of what’s driving a lot of autoimmunity. So when you have increased gut permeability, weaken gut lining, you have a imbalance in the healthy bacteria in the guts all of those tilts your immune system in the direction of autoimmunity, it tilts your immune system in the direction of lack of nutrient absorption, which then affects the immune system as well. So all of these things compound right gut in bad gut bacteria and balanced dysbiosis. Right, more bad bacteria than good gut permeability, increased autoimmunity, increased food allergens, less nutrient density, obviously, you’re eating plants that have a lot of Roundup, there may be less nutrients in those plants, right. So all of those things just kind of spiral out of control. And, and typically, if you’re consuming the big foods that are going to have the highest residue, they’re going to be a lot of your grains, right grains, and soy and corn and wheat and all those things. So if you’re eating a lot of those foods, that’s a lot of processed food anyway. 

Evan Brand: Yeah. And that’s why you and I talked about, a lot of people feel so much better on like grain free or more paleo template, because not only are they getting rid of the allergenic foods, but they’re getting rid of the chemicals too, because everything is so heavily sprayed. Now one of Stephanie’s arguments, which was interesting was that the people are having so much gluten sensitivity is because of the glyphosate. And so she told me she actually eats organic wheat, and she feels totally fine. And I said, Well, what about gluten and zonulin? And all that? And she goes, I don’t know if that’s the full story because I feel fine. But feeling fine. I don’t know. I’d like to see like a stool test, right? And look at gut inflammation and all that and try to confirm because and look at gluten antibodies, because I still even if it’s organic You and I are still not going to recommend people going into the grains. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. And then also the other element of this whole thing is what about glyphosate, when it’s heated up? What if you have glyphosate residue on certain foods, and then you’re cooking, you’re heating those foods up? What does that do to it? Because I know, there’s some data out there showing that a lot of these pesticides become more toxic when they’re heated. So that’s another area another avenue of discussion, probably not a lot of data on it, but definitely a lot of theoretical, what well, you know, what if that does make it worse, and so that’s definitely a concern. So, you know, out of the gates, I think the big thing people can control is going to be water and runoff. So everyone should have at least a reverse osmosis water filter to filter a lot of the roundup glyphosate out of that, so you’re not getting exposed via water. And then number two is do your best to eat organic or if you’re on a budget, try to do at least clean 15 these are going to be the foods that are going to have a relative peel over it right avocado, banana, those kind of things that will decrease the amount of residue because as a peel, and they just going to have less of the glyphosate anyway, and so try to do at least clean the clean 15 and then avoid the Dirty Dozen if you will, but try to go organic free range as much as you possibly can. Because it’s not just the nutrient density that’s important with organic it’s the decrease in toxic load. There’s both you win twice you you win with nutrient density, and you decrease toxic load. I think it was um, I had Joel Salatin on my podcast last year. And he talked about his eggs that are pasture fed, and he sent a bunch of conventional eggs to the grocery store. And to a lab Actually, I’m sorry, to a lab. So conventional eggs he bought at the grocery store to his own pasture eggs in his backyard, his farm, right. And he compared the nutrient levels of it. And so he just compared one nutrient full eight. And he found that his eggs had 19 times more full light than the conventional x 19 times. So if you look at it, it’s like wow, I’m getting 19 times a day. An important nutrient. And maybe the eggs cost twice as much. What’s kind of a pretty good deal? That’s a pretty good ROI on your investment there. 

Evan Brand: It is. Yeah, I love that. Yeah, I need to interview him. He’s awesome. And I love his books and love seeing the farming videos. A lot of people I know he has like students, though, they’ll do all the work for him. He’s got an amazing setup, because he pays like zero labor costs, because everybody wants to learn. So he’s got all these people like harvesting his chickens for him. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, it’s a pretty sweet gig. So yeah, it’s really interesting. I think it’s good for everyone to understand that to know about it to be on top of that, and to look at your food differently, right? You got to look at it like, Alright, I’m decreasing the toxic load. So that’s one important big vector. And then I’m increasing the nutrient density side. And if you look at it like that, I think you go into the grocery store and you make different food choices. I think it was Michael Pollan talked about this in his book Omnivore’s Dilemma, as a society today, we allocate way less of our income towards food, I think it’s today, it’s like 9% of our income goes towards food. As a society, I think about I think it was 50 to 100 years ago, it was twice that was 18%. And so people prioritize food a lot more. From an income standpoint, you know, they’re willing to put more of their money where it counts. And today, that’s not the case. And so I just think it’s really important that people really look at allocating their money towards food, because that’s the foundation of everything, especially once you get sick, you’re going to really wish you did. 

Evan Brand: Well, let’s take it a step further to so you got the glyphosate in or out of the picture in your diet. And now, not only are you getting, as you mentioned, potentially 19 times more folate and who knows a lot more B vitamins and other nutrients. But now you’re also getting all these different amino acids, which are going to fuel your neurotransmitters. So you’re going to be happier, yep, you’re going to be able to tolerate stress better, you’re going to be less depressed, you’re possibly going to have better sleep, you’re going to feel better, you’re going to have more energy, so you’re going to perform better at work, you’re going to be a better parent, because you have enough nutrients to stabilize your blood sugar. So you’re not hangry. So I love how you kind of illustrated that you’re not just getting less toxin, more nutrition, you’re really getting a whole better human. And that’s going to extrapolate that out to your friends, your family, your boss, your spouse, everything gets better. So it’s tough when you see people that like even the other day we drove past a Popeye’s chicken. And that’s probably like the lowest quality fast food you could get. Maybe there’s something worse McDonald’s or something. But we’ll see like a brand new Range Rover, you know, $100,000 vehicle, and they’re in the drive thru parking lot getting like a $2 lunch, but they’ve got $100,000 car, it’s like, you got to just focus on the good good stuff. I’d rather drive. You know, like I did for years, a 1990. When I had my 1992 Honda Accord, I was still buying the pastured bison, grass fed beef, steaks, all organic vegetables, you know, even though I had a $4,000 car, I probably spent 4000 a year on high quality groceries. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, exactly. So it’s a lot of it is an education thing, getting people to reprioritize kind of where they’re at and it gets number one out of the gates. And then two is just really educating people on the benefits, right? It’s like it’s all about value. So the big thing today that we’re kind of hammering on is the glyphosate component, how that affects your gut lining how that affects dysbiosis, how that affects nutrient absorption, how that affects your immune system, because 80% of your immune systems in the golf and the malt in the stomach and the small intestine. So all these play a major role. And we know that autoimmune conditions are on the rise right there massive amount of increased, not all immune conditions, 150 least different conditions that are out there now. And we know gut permeability plays a major role. We know gluten, we know Roundup, we know gut bacterial imbalance plays a major role. So if we know the mechanisms, then we can work on creating an execution plan to help believe that. 

Evan Brand: Yeah, there are several charts online, you could just look this up yourself. You could type in autism, glyphosate, and you can see some of the correlation not necessarily causation. But definitely the correlation charts, where you’ll see the autism rates skyrocket exponentially, along with the exponential use of glyphosate. And, you know, Stephanie’s talked about this many times. Dr. Kurt Waller, he’s hit on this. He’s done many great presentations on autism, and has some courses all about that one of the integral pieces of his protocols I know is detox. So let’s talk about that. What do you actually do? You and I have many, many before and after on ourselves personally, but also clinical case studies where I’ve seen literally 1000s of percent off the chart, I mean levels so high that the lab can even give you a range for it. And we’ve been able to take those people and significantly reduce it, especially in children. I’ve seen kids that are four or five, six years old, off the charts with two four D glyphosate and many other of the organophosphate pesticides and holy crap, it’s scary when you first look at it. You look at the symptoms, you look at the gut, you look at the skin, you look at the behavioral problems, but man within six months to a year I’m confident most people listening could clear out 90 plus percent of their chemical load.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, 100% I think it’s, it’s super important to be empowered like that. So, so you hit a couple of the big mechanisms there. So I think one of the first things people have to look at is when there’s stress, there’s going to be indigestion, right, there’s going to be some level of bloating or gas, we’re just not breaking a lot of the nutrients down. And we have to look at what are the nutrients, we need to run a lot of these pathways, you kind of hit some right there. But we need amino acids, we need a lot of sulfur, we need a lot of the sulfur rich cruciferous vegetables, we need a lot of B vitamins, we need a lot of antioxidants. So for eating nutrient poor food, we’re not going to get those we also need a lot of good high quality sulfur based amino acids. And when you know from our healthy pasture fed eggs and animal products, and if we’re not eating those things and breaking them down optimally, then we’re gonna have problems, we’re not gonna be able to get the amino acids to make our powerful glutathione to help with our B vitamins, and our methylation and acetylation glucuronidation are phase one cytochrome p 450. Or phase two cytochrome p 450. oxide pathways that require on the phase one B vitamins and antioxidants, phase two, all the sulfur amino acids to run those pathways. 

Evan Brand: Yeah, and the glyphosate messes up that P 450 cytochrome p 450 pathway too, so that was another mechanism that gets screwed up. And even if you have the nutrients and to fuel that pathway, if you’ve got a big Roadblock, there are you mentioned the glucuronidation pathway. That’s another issue. We’ve done podcast on this but the the spark notes the long story short for people listening is when you have bacterial overgrowth in your gut, which could be traced back to glyphosate exposure, damaging your good bacteria, therefore allowing the dysbiosis to happen. That then messes up this enzyme, which is the beta glucuronidation enzyme which we test for via stool now your re circulating hormones and recirculating toxin. So, like, you know, Justin and I will do protocols where we may throw in something like calcium D glue gray to inhibit that enzyme, but we have to work backwards and fixing the gut. So all this could be traced back to your glyphosate exposure sounds get reference. Sounds crazy to think like, wow, me eating conventionally sprayed toxic strawberries lead to my depression and my anxiety, but there’s the link of how it can all go down. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Correct. So we talked about a lot of the key nutrients, right, we talked about the gluten, and we talked about the antioxidants. Also, if we have a lot of inflammation happening in the brain, what do we do? So of course, we have powerful antioxidants like glutathione we have, which is it’s twofold, right? Because it also helps with the pathways of elimination, but it’s also a powerful antioxidant. So it deals with a lot of the oxidative stress that happens from these toxins. We also have things like vitamin D, we have things like curcumin, curcumin, like compounds, or is bare trawl gingko bacopa things that have anti inflammatory cognitive enhancement benefits. Because a lot of times what we have is we have this immune response that’s over reactive that’s stimulated in the brain, we have our immune cells called microglial cells in the brain that are overstimulated. And so a lot of times, we have to attenuate that and get that kind of calm down and relax because it’s in this positive feedback loop is once it starts getting ramped up and ramped up and ramped up and ramped up, it’s kind of at this arching level of it’s just it’s continuing to increase, increase, increase. And if we can calm that down what’s powerful antioxidant compounds, while we also stop adding fuel to the fire with a lot of these toxins and pesticides, that’s going to help us a lot. 

Evan Brand: Yeah, absolutely. And the big heavy lifters, we won’t say the names because who knows in the future, our ideas and thoughts may change. So we’ll be putting some links in the show notes on your app to where you can view these products. But let’s break down some of the nutrients at least in the products in case we come out with our own or we come out with better versions in the future something the biggest heavy lift or I would say is definitely going to be chlorella. And specifically, as opposed to the conventionally sold mass marketed what’s called broken cell wall chlorella, which is decent, we like to use one that’s called a micronized chlorella, which is extremely small molecules of chlorella, that is able to get across the blood brain barrier. That’s the magic sauce that most chlorella products fall short. And I literally have 100 case studies where I could show you a before and after of getting children and adults on these products. And we’ve been able to massively reduce the levels at a woman in Canada just last week, she was off the chart with nearly every chemical gasoline xylene validates pesticides, herbicides, two, four D glyphosate, the whole nine yards. And within six months to a year of doing some of this stuff. Her levels are now non detected in a lot of categories. She’s not fully out of the woods, if we could get her in a sauna, which is another way to help with glyphosate. I think she would speed it up but just the chemical detox alone using nutrients massive success.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I love that. I love it. Yeah, like you mentioned binders we have different chlorella we have different maybe activated charcoal or bentonite clay compounds we have a kind of our own formulated products that we love. We’ll put the links down below, we have a lot of the glue defi on or solidify on sulfur amino acid precursor building blocks, those are really powerful. We have a lot of liver tonifying and supporting herbs to help the liver and gallbladder whether it’s milk thistle or, or, or dandelion or phosphatidylcholine. We have a lot of those nutrients that we’ve kind of formulated up. And I think that outside of that would be we get some of the B vitamins, the binders we hit some of the tonifying herbs. cloudify owns sulfur amino acid, I think we hit all the major ones out of the gates, I would just say there’s some different lipidsoma curcumin, and resveratrol and anti inflammatory compounds that the we’re looking at that really have great clinical benefits. Also binders on the activated charcoal a zeolite, citrus pectin side. So we’ll put some of our links to products that we’re personally using with ourselves, patients and family and clinically every day. And we’re kind of looking at the results that we’re getting and trying to always adjust it. So it’s the best. We’ll put those down below. Anything else Evan, you want to add today? 

Evan Brand: Yeah, so the MCP, the modified citrus, pectin, that’s something we can use, we’ll often use that in a blend, and then fulvic and humic acids, those tend to do really, really good too. I don’t like those in isolation. So a lot of people have really jumped on kind of the fulvic acid train, I think it’s smart. I think they’re great. But I’ve seen, you know, before and after test results, and I haven’t been super impressed in isolation. So we might use those foam fulvic and humic acids quite a bit. But it’s going to be in a blend, it’s not going to be by itself. We’re gonna have the chlorella, maybe the cilantro. As you mentioned, milk, this whole other liver support, maybe lymphatic support thrown in there to infrared, sauna, rebounding, anything you can do to sweat hot baths, Epsom salt, where you can boost that sulfur pathway, fixing the gut getting the gut infections address, so you can get that glucuronidation pathway working better, doing the testing on your stool to see where your gut is, if your systems even working properly, to do the detox, and then obviously doing the before and after chemical testing. And I will tell you, there’s not a single non toxic human on the planet unless they’ve done a really great job with chemical detox. But just coming in your average person coming into us with complaints doing the testing, you’re going to have chemical levels off the chart, I only had one guy who came to me over hundreds and hundreds of chemical profiles who didn’t have much of anything. And this was a guy who was doing a sauna for almost an hour, five times a week. And I was like, Whoa, you’re proof that Asana excretes a lot. So everyone else they were pretty much off the chart. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And I had a patient just recently to did a sauna session. And this person had eye level of mercury. And the kind of one of the biggest things I preach is you have a good sulphur soap, that’s going to decrease that lipid barrier and get a quick shower right afterwards. So you can get all the chemicals and stuff off your skin that are fat soluble metals and such toxins, make sure you do that as soon as possible. This person waited think 10 to 15 minutes. And during that timeframe that next day, they had a major herxheimer or issue. And my concern is if you don’t get those toxins off your skin fast, there’s a great chance you’re going to reabsorb them, and then you’re going to reabsorb met a very high level. And that can create a lot of herxheimer. So you got to be very careful. If you’re using an infrared sauna, you won’t want to flush those toxins off your skin fast and make sure you’re really hydrating well, and you may even want to go into that sauna session with binders and solidify them before and during just in case you reabsorb some of those toxins. 

Evan Brand: Yeah, that’s great advice. And that’s why a lot of people recommend like a cold like water plunge or a cold shower afterwards. So you can really just seal up get those goosebumps get your pores sealed up to where everything is off. I know for me, it was crazy, because I was kind of skeptical. I thought is that really are you really reabsorbing stuff. So I did kind of a warm shower. It was soap and then I did a cold shower. And who knows maybe it was all the benefits of cold in general. But I tell you I feel so much better with a cold shower after the sauna. as brutal as it is to put that thing all the way on cold, especially in the winter. It’s cold, but man, I feel like a million bucks after that. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, no, I think that’s that’s smart. So I urge patients if you’re going to do an infrared sauna, which I think is powerful, just kind of start with five or 10 minutes, do a quick shower afterwards have a good soap ready that can kind of cut that lipid by layer. Because remember, a lot of these toxins are going to be they’re going to be fat based. They’re going to be what fat soluble toxins. So it’s like imagine cleaning a pan that you just had bacon in right? With just water. You need that emulsifying dawn soap or whatever organic soap to kind of cut that friction off the pan and allow that grease to kind of come off you right? If you don’t, you’ll feel that greasiness afterwards. Well, it’s the same thing with these fat soluble toxins. You really want to use that soap emulsify what’s on your skin so it’s flushed off so you don’t reabsorb it later. 

Evan Brand: Yeah, and you made a good point. I’ll just take a step further on the hydration piece and the mineral balance piece. If you’ve got adrenal issues, mineral imbalances, electrolyte problems, you know, thyroid issues, sleep issues, you’re chronically sleep deprived, you know, you’re just kind of a weak constitution. You got to be careful and go slow and steady with the sauna. If you get woozy, you get lightheaded, if you do pass out or you feel like you’re gonna pass out your heart’s racing uncontrollably, you’re getting heart palpitations, you’re gonna know you’re mobilizing too much. So when your body’s saying stop, stop, don’t push through. I made the mistake of pushing through one time. It took me like two to three days to recover. So don’t don’t do that. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep. 100% Well, I like it. Guys. If you enjoyed today’s podcast, please feel free put it down in the comments. Let us know what you liked about it. Let us know your own experiences dealing with chemical detoxification. And a lot of the pesticides and chemicals we chatted about today, we’ll put links down to our favorite products, detoxification, support water filters, things that are going to decrease toxin load in your body and things that are going to help your body expel toxins better. And it guys if you enjoy today’s podcast, feel free head over to EvanBrand.com or JustinHealth.com. We are available worldwide to help you all out if you need that extra functional medicine, nutrition support. We are here as well. Anything else? 

Evan Brand: No, that’s it, you covered it all. And thanks for listening.


References:

https://justinhealth.com/

https://www.evanbrand.com/

Audio Podcast:

https://justinhealth.libsyn.com/glyphosate-and-chemical-detox-podcast-334

Recommended products:

TruKeto Collagen

TRUCOLLAGEN

Organic Grass Fed Meat

Emulsi D Supreme

Detox Aminos

Heavy Metal Clear

Water Filtration Devices

Whole house water filter

Clearly Filtered

The Top 5 Nutrients to Improve Brain Function | Podcast #333

For your brain to work efficiently, it needs specific nutrients, making the food we eat vital to brain function. What types of nutrients do we need to help our brains work? 

Some foods, such as fruits, vegetables, coffee, and tea, have antioxidants that help safeguard your brain from harm. Others, such as eggs and nuts, have nutrients that support memory and brain development. You can help keep your brain healthy and boost your alertness, memory, and mood by strategically including these foods in your diet. 

Nutrition is essential for healthy brain function! To learn more about refining your brain process in memory, attention, focus, and sleep while also eliminating symptoms of anxiety and depression, don’t skip the full podcast, check out other videos, and don’t forget to hit like, subscribe button, and the notification bell!

 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

In this episode, we cover:

1:43  Inflammation in the Brain

3:50  Improving Brain Function

7:41  How Food Affects Brain Function

11:24 Insulin Resistance on the Brain

24:11 Improving Blood Flow in the Brain

27:16 Glutamate Issues

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Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey guys, it’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani here with Evan Brand in the house. Today, we’re going to be talking about the top five nutrients to improve your brain function. Really excited to dive into this topic today, it should be a good one, Evan, what’s happening, man?

Evan Brand: Oh, not too much been reading about some of these herbs. And these are something that we do personally. And clinically, I just want to point that out from the beginning. The difference between you and I and conventional practitioners is they’re not taking the drugs, they’re not experimenting with the stuff they’re prescribing. They’re not putting people on the depression drugs and the beta blockers and all of that, and the Adderall and vyvanse. And all the cognitive enhancing drugs, they’re not doing that themselves. So the cool thing about us is that we believe in what we do, and we want to try these things and see how they perform on us. And what if we mix it with that nutrient? How does that combine with this diet approach? And how does that combine with good sleep and good sunshine. So I think it’s fun, because you and I have personal insight into these things. And not just the clinical insight. And that really, I think makes you a better practitioner, but it makes you make a better protocol, because you know, how you feel. And then you can then tweak the nutrients based on that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 110%. So I mean, I think, based on our clinical performance, I mean, just kind of, we always start with the low hanging fruit. So like if people are coming into the show when they you know, want a lot of the nuance, more granular stuff, right stuff. And that was we’ll talk about that too. But we also have to make sure people that are coming in, that don’t have a good foundation, we have to assume that foundation is not there. So of course, getting inflammation in the body down in the gut makes a huge difference, because inflammation in the gut will create inflammation in the brain. And inflammation in the brain will activate certain immune cells in the brain, right. So you have these astrocytes, which are like that make up the blood brain barrier, which prevent things on the inside going into the brain right outside going in. So if you can have good blood brain barrier, that’s important. And then once you get things going into the blood brain barrier into the brain that’s going to activate these cells, these immune cells called micro glial cells, and these are basically part of the brains immune system that go in there and clean up inflammation and gunk. And the when those brain cells or immune cells are activated, those microglial cells are activated, that’s actually going to create cognitive issues, brain fog, and things like that mood issues. A lot of the new wave of antidepressants and mood medications that are coming out are actually working on brain inflammation. So we know inflammation plays a massive role. And the hallmark of inflammation is going to be cytokines interleukins, c reactive protein, maybe other inflammatory metabolites, nuclear factor Kappa beta, of course, um, you know, part of the inflammation is going to be in activation of the immune system on one side, and usually their cells that are going to be broken down to the faster rate than they’re building up, whether it’s inflammation from bad foods, excess omega six junky fats, trans fats, hydrogenated oils, pesticides, mold, toxins could be bacterial toxins, mycotoxins from fungus and yeast, acid aldehyde, from alcohol and yeast by products. So all of our gut, bacteria, yeast, parasites, all of these things are going to create endotoxins, or internal toxins, endogenous toxins in the body. And then of course, we have exogenous toxins in the environment, like our mold, heavy metals, pesticides, chemicals like that plastics, xeno, estrogens, all of these things are going to be in the environment, of course, all the foods we put into our body. And then of course, the more nutrient poor our food are, right? The more nutrient poor our food is, the more crap in the more junk, the less nutrients you have to run those metabolic pathways to run optimally.

Evan Brand: Yeah, great job laying the groundwork, as people coming in are gonna say, Well, why why do we need a whole podcast dedicated to improving brain function? And the answer is because we’re up against so much. So you did a great job kind of highlighting that it’s the food, it’s the air, it’s the water, it’s the heavy metals, it could be the silver amalgam fillings in your mouth. I mean, there’s a lot of things that are in our environment now that are neurotoxic. They’re not just highly estrogenic and endocrine disrupting, but they’re also neurotoxins. And we’re breathing them in every day. And you and I’ve measured hundreds, if not 1000s, at this point of clients around the world. And I’ve seen children as young as two and three years old with massive toxicity from gasoline additives to thau, late to xylene, to nail polish chemicals and hairspray chemicals, and to 4D and glyphosate. I mean, it’s amazing just how toxic people are. I would tell you just based on looking at this clinically, the most toxic people on the planet right now according to me running all these labs would be children less than age 10. And I think it’s due to just the toxicity of the planet that’s increased, but also this maternal transfer through breast milk and through the placenta. All the women that grew up in the 70s and 80s and 90s and now 2000s that are having children, that multi generational toxicity really built up, whereas someone like my grandparents, and you know, growing up in the 1940s, glyphosate wasn’t even around for the First 30 plus years of their life. So yeah, there was a lag, basically. And yeah, the lag has caught up.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. And there’s a lot of environmentalists out there that are, you know, talking about co2 and things like that. Well, co2 is plant food. I mean, I really wish the conversation about the environment really switched to pesticides, and xeno estrogenic compounds, I think these one they’re affecting us, they’re getting into our groundwater, they’re getting into our food, they’re affecting our kids, you know, much more than like, let’s say co2, wood, right? Because I mean, you can just grow more plants and more plants around you to, to take in and basically, you know, use that co2 for photosynthesis to make glucose and, and for plant fuel, essentially, but things like toxins, right? I mean, you need to actually there’s nothing in nature, that’s going to be buffering that, like, I know, plants buffer co2, right, I’m not aware of it. And so we have to use special filtration, whether it’s air filtration, like for instance, and Evans situation, Evans, very sensitive to fumes, incense, so he has a really good high quality Austin air filter with activated charcoal with zeolite and impregnated potassium iodide to filter a lot of those volatile organic compounds out or if we’re using something on the waterside, we’re using a really high quality carbon or reverse osmosis filter to filter out pesticides and chemicals and pharmaceutical drugs that are actually in our water. So we actually have to go through extra modalities and methods to filter these things out, I’m just far more concerned about these things, then, you know, more natural forming things. So I hope that conversation can shift because it plays a big role on our mood, and our energy and our brain performance. And so kind of switching things back to our brain function, getting inflammation dialed in. And of course, I talked about nutrient density. Why is nutrient density important? Well, B vitamins are the low hanging fruit for brain function. Okay, and B vitamins are going to be the highest and high quality animal products, especially animal meat. And then of course, our high quality vegetables. So that’s to be in my opinion, the foundation of our diet is kind of this really good paleo template that focuses on lots of good healthy plants, and lots of good healthy fats and animal products. And ideally getting more of our fats from healthy animals, saturated fats and plant fats because animal fats are much more stable due to their saturated nature, right? plant fats tend to be a lot more unsaturated monounsaturated, and they can be more heat unstable, right? So the best plant fats that are out there are going to be your extra virgin olive oil, your avocado, your palm oils. And of course, the the hallmark of plant fats are going to be your coconut oil because it’s saturated, which makes it a lot more heat stable. And then of course, our if we can tolerate high quality grass fed butter, high quality, ghee, or duck tallow or beef tallow, good, high quality saturated fats on the animal side are going to be great too.

Evan Brand: Yeah, I mean, hate to call them out specifically, but we’ve seen it clinically, the vegetarian vegan people, they have a harder time with brain function, not only brain function, but mood issues, you and I’ve done podcasts on depression, we’ve done podcast on anxiety, due to the lack of the good fats in general, unless they’re trying really hard, we’re going to see this issue with poor cognitive function much, much worse and vegetarian vegan clients. And we’ve actually had some clients that have went back on meats and good quality fish and eggs, because their brain function was so poor, they were literally failing at work. And I had a couple people who were at potential job loss because their cognitive function was so bad after getting off of good meats and fats, and just going with just plant foods, they literally had to for their brain function, I was of course, very happy to see them perform better will make out those good fats back in.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. And of course, they just kind of a little crash course and organic chemistry, saturated fats, they there’s the bond in between the carbons, so you have a carbon, and then the other carbon that’s connected to this a single bond, right, so it goes carbon, carbon, carbon, carbon. And so for instance, like medium chain triglycerides are fats that are between six and 12 carbons, right. And like butyric acid butter, I think, is around four carbons. So imagine, you know, six or 12 carbons, they’re all going to be connected with single bonds in between, which means the outer edges are going to have three hydrogens or the inner part of the bonds are going to have two hydrogens attached to it. Again, all you have to know is the difference in the bonds. So saturated fats have single bonds, which make it more flexible and ability to withstand higher heats. poly unsaturated fats, right, omega threes or omega sixes, right? The omega refers to how many double bonds there are in in the fatty acid chain. So omega threes have three double bonds, omega sixes have six double bonds, and when you have double bonds, they’re they makes the fat more inflexible, and makes it more a lower smoke point, meaning it can oxidize and it can go bad. And so just no saturated fats don’t have the double bonds, and it’s going to make it a lot more stable. And why is that important? Because our brains like 70%, fat and cholesterol. So if you’re not eating the right ratio, and the end the good raw material building blocks for your brain, you’re gonna have a problem. And every cell in our body has a what’s called a lipid by layer. So you have this little fatty lipid layer on the outer part of the cell. And if you start making or Start using junky fats to build that layer of backup is going to stress out your antioxidant reserves. And you’re going to build really inflexible, non healthy non-communicative cells with very inflexible cell membranes.

Evan Brand: Yeah. And how does that manifest? Well, that’s where some of the memory issues pop up, you freak and your best friend’s name, you go into the pantry, you don’t know why you’re there, you figure you forget which way you’re supposed to turn. When you get off the highway off the exit, do I go left? Do I go right? Even though you’ve been that way before, maybe you slip up on someone’s name, maybe at work, you’re slipping up in a presentation, you completely get sidetracked and you just can’t get yourself back on track. Maybe you’re unable to read, maybe you’re unable to retain the information you read, you have to read things multiple times. Maybe you hear someone like Hi, nice to meet you, john, and you immediately forget his name, that kind of stuff. Those are things that we see. It doesn’t necessarily have to be Alzheimers or dementia level to be considered a cognitive problems. So when we say cognitive problem, like everything else, there’s there’s a spectrum, you have the far end, which is going to be your clinical diagnosis of dementia and Alzheimer’s and whatever else Parkinson’s, and then maybe you have like your brain fog, forgetfulness, memory issues. And I’m not saying that those people with those mild brain issues are all going to end up demented. But it’s important to recognize those things now. So that we can do what we can, like you said to reduce inflammation to try to preserve the neurotransmitters in the brain. So let’s go into the nutrients if you’re ready.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, let me just hit one more things. We’re talking about diet, right. And one of the big things when people have chronic health issues, what tends to happen is we have insulin resistance, okay, where the cells become numb to insulin, insulin basically helps glucose get into the cell, it also helps protein get into the cell. And when insulin becomes resistant, it’s going to start taking a lot of the glucose and converting it and storing it as fat. Now that’s kind of in the body. Now what’s happening in the brain, insulin resistance will manifest in the brain through our brain not being able to use glucose for fuel. So it’s like you can have a lot of glucose in the bloodstream, but the brain is not going to be able to use it. So it’s like the brain starving nutritionally, to be able to use glucose for fuel. And so you start to form inflammation in the brain and a lot of plaquing in the brain. Now, the same enzyme that helps break down insulin is called insulin degrading enzyme. That enzyme when there’s lots of insulin around gets wasted away dealing with insulin. The problem is that insulin degrading enzyme has dual purposes, it can go in and clean up plaque in the brain. So it cleans up the brain, it’s the vacuum cleaner for your brain keeps the brain free of plaque. We know plaque has a negative impact on cognitive function and performance. And also when you become more insulin resistant in the brain, it’s hard to use glucose. So starting to decrease insulin allows the brain to also switch hit and start using ketones for fuel. And ketones are very people that have brain issues. That’s part of the reason why they’re reversing Alzheimer’s with ketones. So the first thing we do is we we don’t add ketones in our body, we switch our body’s insulin levels by restricting excess carbohydrates or our body can make ketones and start utilizing ketones for fuel. That’s just kind of first step out of the gates though, because if we have this physiology there, where we’re insulin resistant, and I’m recommending extra B vitamins, or extra gingko, or extra bacopa, man, I mean, you’re not fixing any issues, right? You’re not you know, you’re not fixing anything, you’re not getting to the root underlying problem.

Evan Brand: Yeah, well said and then I guess that would also give people a false sense of hope. And then they would come back to you and they’d be disappointed because they’re insulin resistant, but yet you’re giving them all these good brain nutrients and maybe they only had 5% improvement.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. So you have to make sure the brain is able to utilize the fuel in the body already. And we have to switch out you know, the insulin resistance so the the parts of the brain that are utilizing insulin and breaking down insulin can actually go in and clean up the brain instead. That’s very important.

Evan Brand: Yeah, well said I mean, that’s the important fat you know, foundation framework, whatever you want to call it, because it’s impossible to circumnavigate that issue by just supplementing like you said bacopa. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly, exactly. So a couple of my favorite things out of the gates like I mentioned, are going to be high quality methylated B vitamins you know B one, B two B three which are going to be thiamine riboflavin, niacin, pyridoxal, five phosphate, right which is B six pens authentic acid, which is B five, I think B7 is bioten. Right and then B nine is going to be folate and then your B 12. Make sure it’s either methylated hydroxylated or, or Adenosyl B12, which are excellent sources of B vitamins. So those are going to be great out of the gates. Outside of that things that support acetylcholine are going to be excellent. So either taking acetylcholine or using an herb called huperzine huperzine. A is is excellent at supporting that thing here. A couple of the things that um, acetylcholine really is very it’s, it really improves the colon ergic neurotransmission, which it basically helps with cognition, decreases the decline of cognition. Anything else you want to say on acetylcholine or huperzine out of the gates?

Evan Brand: Yeah, I’ve played with acetylcholine a lot. It’s kind of the Forgotten neurotransmitter, I think you and I’ve done a great job of kind of highlighting this. You know, we’ve hit on dopamine, we’ve hit on serotonin, we’ve hit on GABA, but man, you rarely have people talking about acetylcholine. So it’s, it’s probably easier to work in this mechanism, which is the huperzine is inhibiting the brain time from breaking down-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So the acetylcholinase, acetylcholine, acetylcholine esterase, which is going to be you know, it’s an enzyme because the ASC that what breaks down acetylcholine, so it’s slowing down the breakdown. And again, [inaudible] something we find in liver, egg yolk, so it’s really important in like high quality animal products, and we’re basically slowing the breakdown.

Evan Brand: Yeah, so you can do both right, you can come in with the good foods and good fats, and then you can try to slow the breakdown of that gland. It’s pretty cool. So there are a couple papers on this huperzine. Specifically, they talk about it, modifying the beta amyloid peptide processing, reducing oxidative stress. Also, they talk about helping with the secretion of NGF, which is nerve growth factor. So that’s really cool. And then it says here, finally, this is the research paper. Finally, huperzine a can significantly improve cognitive function in patients with mild to moderate vascular dementia. So that’s pretty impressive. And I personally just take this on going, I’m not necessarily fearful, but I just want my brain to function the best. So I do supplement on and off with some of these brain nutrients we’re talking about.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right. And it also helps improve mitochondrial function in the brain. So we have mitochondria in every cell, I think except red blood cells, right. And basically, the mitochondria is the powerhouse where it generates ATP. And that’s really important fuel source. And so, one, it’s neuroprotective. So if you have chemicals or not so good compounds floating around the brain, mycotoxins whatever, it’s kind of protected from being damaged. And it’s also going to help the mitochondria the brain to generate ATP. So that’s important, too.

Evan Brand: Let’s talk about the next one on our list here, the EGCG, which is going to be the poly phenol coming from green tea, because this is really cool. The study here talks about the enhanced transport of huperzine is possible with the egcg. So they found that when they were able to stack these two nutrients together, you get even more bang for your buck, which is what we find a lot with nutrients. When you and I are working on gut infections, right, we’ll find that the individual parts are not as valuable as the sum when you combine this herb with that herb and that with that, you get a much more synergistic, I would guess you would call it an exponential beneficial effect. Right?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly.

Evan Brand: We got wild blueberry next on the list. Let’s talk about wild blueberries. So there are some cool antioxidant benefits here. But there are some papers-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I wanted to highlight one thing on the egcg, right, it also helps reduce the beta beta amyloid plaque accumulation. So we talked about that, right? Because insulin resistance plays a big role because that insulin degrading enzyme, which is depleted when you have insulin resistance, that’s there to help decrease beta amyloid plaque. And we know that the beta amyloid plaque is going to be reduced when we’re taking egcg is due to its anti inflammatory and antioxidant effects.

Evan Brand: That’s awesome. All right, let’s go back to the wild blueberry. This one’s cool, too, some cool papers on this in regards to being a potent antioxidant. They have done some animal studies on this to help increase the capacity of neurons to maintain proper functioning through the aging process as also reduces some of the beta amyloid plaque aggregation. It also talks about how of course the mitochondrial function is disrupted, and the wild blueberry extract helps to protect against that. And then also, guess what, this is cool. It also leads to higher production of glutathione. So that’s a pretty interesting little mechanism.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, very interesting. I mean, a lot of those compound gluta phones are really powerful antioxidant. So again, they’re gonna still have like a good anti inflammatory kind of benefit. And again, you can get some of these benefits by just eating a handful or two of organic blueberries a day, which is going to be really helpful by drinking a little bit of green tea. So you don’t have to supplement these things all the time. You can also try to get them in Whole Foods sources. And again, it helps with mitochondrial function, it’s going to help in decreasing a pop ptosis and cells kind of dying on their own. And like you mentioned, natural acetylcholine esterase inhibitor. So it helps acetylcholine increase and like you mentioned on codifier on so I like that a lot. I wanted to bring one other thing in here is Lion’s Mane. Lion’s Mane is a medicinal mushroom. But it’s well it’s well established to be super helpful. It was so as Reishi as well Ganoderma lucidum. That’s Reishi. Lion’s Mane as well as very helpful on cognitive funk function. So it’s going to help with a lot of different things. It helps with antioxidant, it’s what’s known to be helpful in improving cognitive performance. It’s known to be helpful at repairing brain cells. And again, just 20 or 30 years ago in medical school, they would have taught their medical students that the brain can not repair When you damage a cell, that’s it, it’s done. And we know today that cells can actually recover and improve. So one of these mushrooms is going to be a great thing out of the gate. So big, big fan of lion’s mane, it’s shown to be protective against dementia as well, which is awesome. It stimulates brain cell growth, which is awesome. It’s also has some really improved and excellent benefits regarding depression and anxiety and mood. It helps with injury recovery. So it has some anti inflammatory kind of benefits as well. Couple of studies where they did damage to, I think it was rats or mice, spinal cords. And then they looked at the growth and the recovery on it. And they saw that when they gave these little rats Lion’s Mane mushroom that reduced recovery time 20 to 40%. And they saw that Lion’s Mane extract may also help reduce the severity of brain damage after a stroke. And in one study, the lion’s mane extract was given to rats immediately after a stroke helped decrease inflammation and reduce the size of the stroke related brain injury by 44%. So big, big fan of lion’s mane and medicinal mushrooms, for sure.

Evan Brand: And can you believe that’s not happening in standard practice right now in the medical facilities? I mean, if you have a stroke today, you’re going to go into the hospital, and then they’re going to give you peanut butter crackers for lunch right after.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s unbelievable. Yeah, I mean, they should be doing hyperbaric oxygen, they should be doing Lion’s Mane they should be doing maybe progesterone therapy, which is helpful. They should be doing like a lot of the antioxidants and glutathione and nutrients that we just talked about, right? They’re not and it’s just, it’s frustrating, because all these things are in the scientific literature, but you know, conventional medicine unless they can patent it or make a drug out of it. You know, they’re not really interested. Yet everyone thinks that, hey, they’re giving you the most cutting edge care possible? Probably not. We know this is all in the literature. And so it’s out there, it’s just you know, we all have our biases, and we’re all about utilizing all the options that are there. And there’s so many natural options that have been around for so long, like medicinal mushrooms are used in oriental communities for for very long periods of time. Rishi courtice apps, my talkie, very good immune boosting immune enhancing benefits. So I like that.

Evan Brand: Yeah, I’ve been taking Lion’s Mane for several months, it’s been a big help. I actually had a female client who she had a chronic tongue burning issue. This was one of those guests in Czech type things, and it actually works. So she had some sort of a dental procedure. I don’t remember exactly what but we believe that was some nerve damage. And so she had literally chronic burning of her tongue 24 seven, she was just absolutely miserable. We got her on lion’s mane. And within two months, she had 75% reduction in the burning tone. So that was one of those random guesses and checks and it happened to work. So we’re luckily we’re keeping her on it. And she’s maintaining her benefits.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, can modulate the immune system, it can also help decrease inflammation. Also, there’s studies on Lion’s Mane helping with diabetes, and we know diabetes. And that insulin degrading enzyme helps to remove plaque in the brain. So we know that the blood sugar component of lion’s mane, maybe part of the reason why it’s helping cognitive function.

Evan Brand: Yeah, and there’s a lot of anti cancer benefits to a lot of these medicinal mushrooms you’re talking about too. So we’re both huge fans, we love them, we take them. And you probably should, too, if you’re listening. And these are supplements that are not super expensive. I mean, you’re talking maybe 50 bucks for a really, really high quality version.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And then also a lot of these met the the big mechanism you’re going to see across the board is you’re going to see an acetylcholine mechanism, you’re going to see an antioxidant mechanism, right. And so usually when you see the ability to reduce oxidative stress, you also see that the ability to reduce inflammation because when you reduce inflammation, inflammation drives oxidation. So oxidation is when you lose electrons. And so a lot of these compounds like lion’s mane, they have antioxidants in them. Usually they have a clue to fire and supporting effect. And then that helps buffer the oxidative stress because antioxidants come in they freely donate their electrons. So when electron pair is removed, that can create oxidation. And these guys come in there and they donate electrons freely and stabilize those cells. And that reduces oxidation. And that reduces inflammation. So that’s pretty powerful, and so very helpful with inflammation and oxidative stress in the brain.

Evan Brand: Let’s hit on another mechanism. It’s about improving the blood flow in the brain. We know that gaesco which is amazing. Gingko has some what they call like microcirculation in the brain improvements. I love gingko I’ve played with a lot of gingko and used it and they’re amazing, beautiful trees. If you’ve seen the Leafs of them, they’re very, very cool actually found my old property actually found a rock that was like a fossil with well preserved gingko leaves in the rock. It was super cool. So gingko is like one of the oldest trees it’s been around hundreds of millions of years. But on that same vein of cerebral blood flow, you’ve got the vinpocetine which comes from Periwinkle flower. And that’s really cool because it’ll actually cross the blood brain barrier. You know, there’s, there’s a lot we talked about, and but the truth is you got to get the nutrients across that barrier if you really want the benefit. So there’s a lot have different studies on dementia related issues and vinpocetine, quote, producing a significantly more improvement with memory problems than placebo on global cognitive test regarding attention, concentration and memory, it talks about increasing the cell membrane flexibility and stroke pay since it talks about decreasing platelet and red blood cell aggregation. It talks about protecting neurons from toxicity of glutamate. So this is a very cool nutrient.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. And you mentioned the bacopa. And they’ve been post a teen, they all have blood flow enhancing effects. And we know inflammation causes increase aggravation of red blood cells and platelets. And that can decrease blood flow and blood flow is going to carry oxygen and it’s going to carry nutrients, right. And so the more we can decrease inflammation and get nutrients up to the brain, you’re going to feel better, and you’re going to do better, right. And then you mentioned a lot of the big benefits are going to come from antioxidants, effects, they’re also going to come from the protection of neurons. So if we have any type of inflammatory or toxin around it, is going to help those neurons and prevent them from dying, right, which is really important. And then also just to highlight, there’s a lot of studies on gluten actually decreasing blood flow to the brain. And we know blood flow is a really important component. And there was, I think, one study on migraines and they found that you know, the garden hose is the carotid arteries that go up the side of the neck here brings blood up to the brain. And in patients that were consuming gluten, they found that there was a decrease in blood flow. And then this one group, I think they restricted gluten and they saw 90% of them nine out of 10 and your migraines went to zero, and they saw an improved blood flow up to the brain. So we cannot you know, underestimate the the effects of kodagu ability meaning reducing coagul ability clotting and increasing blood flow, better blood flow, better nutrition and that can have major effects on the brain. And we know things like gluten and anything more on the inflammatory side will impact that on a negative side on the on the negative fashion.

Evan Brand: That’s amazing. It’s like you should go to the restaurant and they’re going to give you the gonna give you the bread or give you the bun. Yeah, here we’re going to reduce your cerebral blood flow. Are you ready for this? Oh, sure. I would love to reduce my examination to my brain.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. And you mentioned like a lot of the glutamate issues and how that’s going to be part of that inflammatory cascade. And we know glutamate is shown to be an excitotoxin so it really overstimulate cells to the point they die. And so of course, decreasing that gluten exposure and decreasing that glutamate and that and MDA, which is going to be stimulated by that glutamate, which is going to overstimulate ourselves and cause them to die. That’s a problem. And so we know a lot of these compounds, right? [inaudible] bacopa, are a neuroprotective and they’re also going to help with blood flow. So that’s a good component out of the gates. And I would say next would be one of my favorites, serotonin and dopamine support. So I have a product called brain deplete that has dopamine or tyrosine. And it’s also gonna have five HTP and some of those key B vitamins out of the gates. I think those are kind of low hanging fruit because those amino acids serotonin and dopamine, which are going to be building blocks of tryptophan and five HTP, and Tyrosine and phenylalanine, they’re really important for serotonin and dopamine, which have a lot to do with sleep and recovery. And serotonin is a powerful precursor to melatonin, which is a powerful antioxidant. And then of course, dopamine is a powerful focus and brain enhancing kind of effects. Right? Don’t means focus and feel good. I love you that good feeling of satisfaction and helps with really focusing and studying and learning. So dopamine and serotonin and have major important benefits on brain health.

Evan Brand: Yeah, and we’re in a very chronically low neurotransmitter population. And I mean, Doug, look at the way society performs. Look at our everyone’s addicted to everything addictions come from low dopamine. So you’re constantly refreshing your Instagram, you’re going to this social media, then that one, I mean, that’s kind of a low dopamine state. And you and I have the data to prove this is not just theory, you and I’ve looked at 1000s at this point of organic acids test, and I will say probably seven out of 10 people I’m looking at, they have sub clinical, I guess you would call it it’s not like a pathological level. It’s not like a, you know, Parkinson’s type level, but they’re going to be on the low dopamine side, and we can boost this back up. So the fun part is helping people to reverse this stuff. So I want to just, you know, wrap this thing up and tell people that you can reverse a lot of your cognitive problems, and most people don’t even know how brain fog they are until they truly get better. So clearing out the garden infections, cleaning up the diet, reducing inflammation in the gut getting rid of Candida that’s producing the aldehyde you talked about getting rid of the lightbulb polysaccharide production, getting rid of any kind of toxin that’s internally pooping in you essentially getting rid of those toxins, plus dialing in the diet plus the nutrients while you can improve brain function 300%. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I mean, it’s totally possible 100% and the only other X Factor should be if we have to work on detoxification of mold or heavy metals. There are special compounds that we would use, whether it’s glutathione or various binders, beet root extract activated charcoal zeolite fulvic minerals. Maybe if we’re doing heavy metal, we may use things like dmps or HLA or cloudify on so it depends when it comes to a lot of these more intense detoxification programs you want to make sure you’re healthy enough you want to work with the practitioner to make sure that you’re in a stable place to be able to handle that it wouldn’t be something that would say hey, you want to improve your brain function just knock these things down right away because you may actually feel worse. You want to work on the foundational things the low hanging fruit and the maybe some of the more I don’t know more general support that would be helpful like B vitamins or Lion’s Mane or some of those herbs that aren’t going to have a over a detoxifying effect if you will.

Evan Brand: Yeah, good call. I mean there is a point where you need a practitioner the line brain the mold, brain bartonella brain I mean some of these bigger complex 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Chronic infections, infections for sure. 

Evan Brand: They get intense so if you do need help, please reach out you can reach Dr. J at JustinHealth.com and you can reach me at EvanBrand.com and we would love to talk with you about this figure out what’s going on with you and see if we can help.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely, if you guys enjoyed it, give us a thumbs up click down below our links where you can give us a review. EvanBrand.com/iTunes, JustinHealth.com/iTunes for that review, put your comment down below. I’d love to know your experience and kind of you know, applying some of the things we’re talking about and to give us some feedback on things that you’re already applying in what you’re seeing improvements in your health. We really appreciate it. It gets us excited.


References:

https://justinhealth.com/

https://www.evanbrand.com/

Audio Podcast:

https://justinhealth.libsyn.com/the-top-5-nutrients-to-improve-brain-function-podcast-333

Recommended products:

Brain replete

Serotonin replete

Dopa replete

Antioxidant Supreme

TruKeto Collagen

TRUCOLLAGEN

Organic Grass Fed Meat

Role of Functional Medicine in Mental Health | Podcast #326

As an adult, maybe you’re struggling with some of these symptoms yourself, things like anxiety, perhaps depression or mood issues, those types of things. Or many of you have kids with these types of mental health symptoms and problems. Functional Medicine is a form of integrative medicine that focuses on addressing the root causes of a person’s symptoms rather than merely treating the symptoms themselves and, in this case, manage stress. Here are Dr. J and Evan Brand sharing their insights about different approaches for stress reduction. 

Dr. J suggested to pay attention to nutrients first and some natural herbs such as ashwagandha, rhodiola, holy basil, etc. Watch the whole video to know interesting details about functional medicine in mental health.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

In this episode, we cover:

1:22      Foundation of Functional Medicine Needs

8:27      Emotional Stress

14:50    How to deal with Stress

19:08    Alcohol as Stress Reliever

30:43    Importance of Exercise

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Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And we are live. It’s Dr. J here in the house with Evan. Evan, how are we doing today man? 

Evan Brand: Doing well, the sky is blue, the weather is amazing. I looked at your forecast for this week too, it’s going to be like 75 and sunny all day, every day. So that’s going to be amazing. We’re inside though, maybe we need to do like outside recordings, maybe need to go like, sit out back in a hammock and record with me. So we don’t miss this weather because then it’s going to be cold. And we’re going to be complaining. But no, but long story short, we were talking pre show about just how everything this year has been kind of crazy. And a lot of people are expressing issues with their mental health, their physical health, their emotional health, it’s affecting our clients, it’s affecting potential clients, people that are reaching out to us that have had businesses closed down or potential job losses and a lot of economic issues that have caused a lot of, you know, mental emotional problems for people. So the idea today was, well, let’s try to cover kind of a, a broad stroke, if you will, of how we could use functional medicine to improve mental health. So let’s dive in.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it. So off the bat, like we kind of go back to like Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, right? That’s kind of like the first thing. So I always tell patients off the bat, there’s kind of a foundation of functional medicine needs, that’s going to be clean water, sleep, and then clean food. And now we can kind of get in the middle of it in the weeds with the food and kind of getting your macros dialed in and getting all that kind of dialed in. But clean water, clean food and good sleep. And so I always tell patients, the more stressed you are, the more you need to be rested, fed and watered. And the more those things are kind of stable, and that’s like your foundation, the better adaptable you will be at the dealing with stress, adapting to stress. So the health, health and stress adaptation are intimately connected. So the more stressed you are, if you start going towards alcohol, and processed food, and staying up too late and watching too much news, it’s going to get that fear cycle going, you’re not going to have enough rest to recharge your parasympathetic nervous system, you’ll be too much sympathetic dominant, you’ll be leaning on your adrenals leaning more on cortisol leaning more on adrenaline, and it’s going to be harder for you to digest. You’ll be just kind of on the edge every time with your emotions, the smallest thing will set you off, and you won’t have a good solid foundation.

Evan Brand: Yeah, I I think people should really just get rid of the social media apps on their phone. I mean, that was something that I did. I just noticed that if I have the social media apps off my phone, and I have to go to a web browser to check them. It’s much much more inconvenient to do it. So I must I’m much less likely to do it. And also, for me, you have the option of being up speaking to that you hear his little notification sound. Oh, social media-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: – has turned it off right now. Airplane mode, maybe. 

Evan Brand: It’ll, it will, it’s it’s it, you know, there’s been like trials done on how long it takes you to get focused again. And so what I’ve tried to do is to limit my distractions, I think the world now has become a world full of distractions, mainly because people are trying to solve all the world’s problems on their own meaning, you know, I care about the trees getting cut down in the Amazon. So I’m going to go read about this, and then I care about this, I’m going to go read about that. And then you’re so scatterbrained that you kind of lost your own productivity. So I’m not saying that you need to just, you know, put your head in a hole and turn the world’s problems off in your head like they don’t exist. No, I think it’s just a fine line. And I think most people have lost the line of productivity, because they’re so focused on the issues. And a lot of the day to day decisions you make aren’t going to change the world that much like there’s nothing I could do necessarily right this very second, besides maybe donating some money to some organization to stop cutting trees in the Amazon like it sucks. I don’t like to see, you know, you got all this illegal deforestation going on. But there’s only so much you can do. So you got to find a way to to find a healthy way to absorb the media. And most media is negative. So social media, media news. And a lot of it’s not serving you. That’s the only point I have to make.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I do think number one, social media is a big one, you kind of have to like, use it, don’t let it use you. Right. So turn off the notifications. Don’t let it kind of be there something that you always go to write, I think deleting it from your phone, or at least maybe on the weekends or periodically, deleting it can be helpful because you’re not going to access it as much on the web browser. I think also people forget that most people use social media as their highlight reel. So they only post great things about their life. People feel bad about it. So I’m very aware about that. And I don’t overly post the highlight reel of my life on there because those things are between me and my family and I don’t need to share it with the whole world every now and then. I’ll get people A glimpse, but it doesn’t need to be there all the time. A lot of people overdo that. And people forget that they’re seeing someone else’s highlight reel and they make it makes their life feel a little bit less than or more inferior. And you got to remember that right? You can’t forget it. That gives you kind of a good perspective and a grounding and and it really just comes back to appreciation. Right, the more you’re grounded in appreciation for what you have that that really shifts that that stress and that sympathetic kind of response of just inadequacy and, and, and, and feeling like your life’s not enough.

Evan Brand: Yeah. And there’s people with it, we know that are incredibly successful in business and wealth and all of that. And these people will go publicly bring up their anxiety and depression. So when you look at someone’s life, and you see all they have it so good, I’m so jealous of this or that car, this house or whatever, a lot of people listening may just shut it down immediately. And they say, Oh, no, I don’t care. I’m not comparing myself. But it’s kind of a subconscious thing. You’re not even really aware that it’s happening. Just look up type in, like Instagram depression, there’s some studies done that it was the most depressing social media. So I don’t want to make it the whole anti social media podcast, but you, you hit on gratitude. And I think that’s really the key. So what I tried to do was like a walking gratitude. It’s very, very helpful. So I’ll just, I’ll take the kids outside, and they’ll just walk, whether it’s in the backyard, whether it’s down the driveway, whether it’s in the you know, by the garage, I’ll just find a place to just walk, walk, walk. And I’m just focusing on the motions of the body just shaking up and down, dude. And I’m just thinking, Man, I’m grateful. I’m so grateful. Look at this beautiful day, look at the sun, look at the blue clouds, or the white clouds with the blue sky. Look at the the contrast, look at the green on the trees. Oh, we’ve got a little bit of yellow coming in on these maples over here. This is gorgeous, Oh, look at that red tree over there. And it’ll really take you out of the fear, it’ll take you out of the worry those repetitive, repetitive thoughts, you know, there’s, and this is not talking to one or two people here on my intake form, which thousands of people have submitted, you and I use a couple different form creation tools. I’ve looked at how many submissions we have. And it’s literally like 95% of people out of these thousands have reported? Yes, they beat themselves up with negative self talk. That’s a question on the intake form. Do you beat yourself up with negative self talk? 95%? Say yes. Now is that because you and I have a population who has symptoms and they want to get better? Or is that indicative of the general population to I would say the general population would be the same?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I always kind of I heard someone say this a couple of years ago, they said, Imagine, you know all the inner thoughts about yourself, kind of write that down. Okay. And imagine if someone else said those things to you? Would you be friends with that person? Probably not. Right? So it’s, it’s amazing how hard people are regarding the inner dialogue. And I always just kind of inner dialogue comes through your brain, ask yourself, would you be friends with that person? If someone else said that to you? Probably not. So I always just try to say to people, you know, make sure you would be friends with the person that would be saying, the inner thoughts that you’re actually thinking.

Evan Brand: Yeah, that’s a good call, that’s a really good call, well, you can be your best friend or you can be your worst enemy. And I think it’s easy to become your worst enemy. Because I don’t know you, you’re the one who has to look in the mirror. Right? So you’re always going to be the one to blame yourself. But.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep. And if that happens, what do you do? Right? I mean, I think if you have that inner dialogue that kind of shifts overtly negative to yourself, what do you do in NLP world, you go and you visualize the stop sign, right? You don’t beat yourself up over it, you visualize the stop sign, and then you then you shift into appreciation. Or some folks will have the elastic band on the wrist and they’ll pull it tight, right to create that negative neuro Association, whether it’s a physical, elastic snap, or whether it’s a stop sign coming in, that’s that’s visually cueing you to stop, however you want to do it, and then just kind of refocus your energy in a non shameful way to, to the things that you have that are great, right? Because that stuff needs to be you need to it’s like weeds grow automatically negative thoughts grow automatically. It takes no effort to be a cynic. In today’s world takes no effort. It really takes a lot of effort to be an appreciator and to focus on the things that you have. So just kind of use some of those cues to stop the negative thought and then shift over into the positive thought. Now I always find too, if you’re some people, it just kind of feels good to be negative a little bit where you’re kind of venting over something. And if you feel that way, just do it while tapping on some meridian points, some of the EFT meridian points because I find at least if you’re going to be negative, this at least decreases that sympathetic tone. And then what happens is as that that nervous system kind of calms down a little bit, it’s easier to shift back into that positive perspective. So you can do some of the EFT points chin under the nose. under the eye doubletap, I find it’s more efficient for me.

Evan Brand: And as you’re doing this, and as you’re doing this, you’re you’re kind of talking about the negative thoughts, it could be, oh, I just thought about irritable, yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Just just talk about whatever it is, I always like to go into it, assigning it a number. So out of 10, 10 being the worst intensity, where, yeah, you had a five or six or seven. And I try to go into it, taking whatever that number is, I want to cut it in half. So if I’m at a seven, I’m going to cut it down to three, or four, if I’m at a six, I want to cut it down to a three, if I’m at a 10 and want to cut it down below five, I just try to go into it, and have that conversation with myself about whatever that thing is that pissed me off, whatever it is that hey, that difficult patient that that really stressful bill, whatever it is, right. And I just kind of go into it, kind of do a little audit of where you’re at, and then try to get that down until it’s at least half below where it’s at, that kind of puts you back in the driver’s seat. And then it gives you the ability to shift to being positive, because you can’t be positive, it’s harder to be positive when you have that emotional staying at a higher level on that on that object subjective scale I gave you. So if you can cut it in half, that gives you the ability now to downshift from negative into positive to enable just want to make that shift. while they’re at a high level of negative it’s too difficult. That’s Oh, man, doing the EFT can be helpful because one, it gives you permission to be negative, but two, you’re giving your your nervous system, a little bit of a bump to be able to neutralize it.

Evan Brand: That is the the best point you’ve made about the emotional stress piece because this is like taking somebody who’s in the middle of a full blown panic attack and saying, Just chill out. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Just chill out, like just relax, like, be be positive, no, can’t do that. Can’t do that. So this is where like the EMDR. And then you can kind of scatter your eyes around while you do it too. Right. So you can go look at like a clock face and go to 1936. Or you can tap while you’re pretending like you’re looking at different clock numbers with your eyes. And because when you move your eyes that uses different cranial nerves, which uses different parts of the brain, and that kind of the whole goal is you’re kind of scattering that signal. Number one, you’re interrupting the pattern. Number two, it’s kind of like if you’re talking about something you ever had it where someone interrupted you and you’re like, What the hell are they talking about? Right? ever have that? That’s kind of what you’re doing a little bit to your brain and in some of the negative thinking you’re trying to scatter that pattern and make it a little bit harder for your brain to go back to and then you’re like, what, what was I mad about? Oh, yeah, that. And then it makes it easier than shift into positive.

Evan Brand: I just tried to go outside to like, for some reason. Well, duh, I mean, humans were meant to be outside. We’re not meant to be in boxes all day. But you know, if you have a thought that is intrusive, you can just go out, and I’ll take a pair of binoculars, and I’ll just go outside and I’ll just watch the birds. Or I’ll go fill up the bird feeder, put it like a sewage feeder. So it’s like a big chunky like fatty CD type feed. I like to go put that out, watch the woodpeckers come in. And if I’m looking at them, and I’m not thinking about anything, yeah, that’s a that’s a great point. So let’s tie the functional medicine piece into what you said because I think what you said is a really good place to pivot which is you can’t take someone because someone listening who’s just so stressed out right now they’re going to they’re going to listen to you talk about tapping or if they’re watching the video on YouTube. So you tap into right What is this guy doing? He’s friggin tapping his forehead. I’m so pissed. I don’t care what what is this gonna do? That person’s a 10. He can’t he can’t even comprehend getting down to a five right now. So So on the maybe you would call it the herbalist functional medicine side, maybe we come in and give that guy or gal a shot of passionflower. Or maybe we give them a couple hundred milligrams of some pharma gabbeh or maybe a little bit of mother wort or maybe some ashwagandha maybe some Holy basil. Maybe we come in with some B vitamins because you and I know based on looking at thousands and thousands of people on organic acids testing that if you’re really really stressed, you’re going to burn out your bees as in Bravo, your B vitamins are going to be toast we know that. Based on looking at these labs, your neurotransmitters are going to be affected. So you may have low dopamine, you may have low serotonin, which is causing more anxiety, but then the low dopamine is causing a lack of energy and lack of drive. So let’s dive into some of these more functional pieces now.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, so we talked about the mindset stuff. We talked about tools to kind of decrease that sympathetic output and it’s just tapping on meridian points, right acupressure acupuncture points, kind of how energy and nervous energy Nervous System energy flows to the body. It’s just helping that energy flow better whether you call it ci or whether you call it action potential or, or nervous system, nerve flow, whatever you want to say, right? blood flow. It’s all connected, right? It’s all connected, right? So off the bat, we were talking about functional stuff. So when you’re stressed What are important things? Well, blood sugar stability is really important because most people get on a rollercoaster of blood sugar. When they get stressed meaning they’re going they’re overly gravitating towards alcohol, or overly gravitating towards refined sugar, their blood sugar goes up and then crashes down. And then it creates more nervous system stimulation via adrenaline and epinephrine being stimulated. And cortisol being stimulated to bring your blood sugar back up. So I find just keep it really simple, really easy with your meals, you may be more nauseous when you’re overly stressed because stress hormone does cause you to feel nauseous. So this is where you may want to do a soup or a simple smoothie, something really easy where there’s not a lot of digestion, but you’re still getting some proteins and fat in there. Whether it’s some collagen and some coconut milk or just sipping on some bone broth, right, something like that is going to have some good fat protein and it won’t be hard to digest. So if you feel nauseous just still no you should probably be eating but just try to make it something very easy on your tummy. And then think what are some of the nutrients your nervous systems in need when you’re more stressed, so low hanging fruit, B vitamins B complex is going to be very essential. Magnesium is going to be excellent gabbeh l-theanine these are good things that are going to help you relax and wind down having kind of mentioned valerian root or passionflower which are all connected to gabbeh and that kind of inhibitory neurotransmitter that helps you just relax a little bit kind of kind of puts the clutch in gear disengages the the gearbox so you can kind of downshift so to speak.

Evan Brand: Did you ever do Kava when you were down in Austin?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, so I mean, I’ve done I’ve done Kava still. 

Evan Brand: Did you go to the bars though? There’s like a cot. There’s like a cup. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, no, I’ve never I’ve never done it at a bar, but I’ve done it. Um, someone brought it over my house. They got it from Fiji. Before I did, it was relaxing. I like Kava that does a lot of gabbeh too, right?

Evan Brand: Yeah, does I felt weird my throat. I felt like well, am I having a reaction to this? Like it numbs your throat so much. It was a bizarre feeling. Yeah, I’m not recommending it. I’m not recommending it as a as a tool. But it could be it could be a good tool. I just thought I’d bring it up. Because when you mentioned like, Valerian I thought, Man, I remember that one time I drink Kava. I was. It was a weird, almost like an out of body relaxation. And I didn’t feel very grounded. It was kind of like whoa, I’m floating in the room. Kind of kind of interesting. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I mean, like I always go to nutrients first. And then I go to my favorite adaptogenic herbs second, so ashwagandha is one of my favorites. Right? ashwagandha rhodiola. Excellent. Excellent x, Holy basil those are kind of like my favorite kind of very relaxed, defying, relaxing tonifying kind of herbs, if you will.

Evan Brand: I like it too relaxefying, Do you get any sort of change in your outlook with holy basil? Because for me, that’s the one that’s most significant. Like I feel like I could take on the world when I get like a, I don’t know five 600 milligram a holy basil. It’s kind of like I am ready for the challenge. It’s a weird because it’s I’m calm. But I’m also energized at the same time. Do you get anything like that? 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It hasn’t been on my stack for a while. So right now my big stacks on my desk is going to be ashwagandha I do have some some gabbeh chewables and gabbeh sublingual. I mean, I think if you just took people’s works and took, you know, in their, in their place of work, whatever. And you took away all the candy and you just put like magnesium, and you put gabbeh like Lawson jers. Right. Think about how much of a stress reduction had been people’s works. Right. So much better. Maybe some B vitamins.

Evan Brand: Yeah, I mean, if you and I had brick and mortar places what I would do instead of a little you know how old school like front desk, you’ve got a little glass of like lifesavers and peppermints. And a bunch of garbage. I’d have like pre packaged chewable pharma gabbeh sitting there.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep. chewable pharma gabbeh, sublingual magnesium, maybe some l-theanine shots, right? keep it really simple. I remember in doctor at school before. For finals, we would like make drinks of like ginseng and holy basil. And we like create these like shot glasses all lined up with herbs where we take it. It was fine. I mean, those are some fun times. But um, yeah, so we just got to think a little bit differently and how you deal with stress, just a different mindset change.

Evan Brand: Yeah, I want to go back to what you said how people get into the alcohol and to the sugar and all of that and the carbohydrates and the blood sugar rollercoaster. I think people don’t understand why that happens. So I just want to give people a brief education of why that’s happening from a, you know, neurotransmitter perspective, that way you feel a little more confident that you can change this and you’re not just a victim to the food. So when we look at urine and you measure these neurotransmitter metabolites, we can see that after a period of stress, especially if somebody has been working with us for several years, we can see that Oh, they went through a divorce. Look what happened to their endorphins, for example, the endorphins got burned out. And with the help of Julia Ross, she has an amazing amino acid therapy chart in her books. You can see that the symptoms of low endorphins start to pop up. So these are the people that cry at the drop of the hat. These are the people that hard on the sleeve real emotionally sensitive. If they crave dark chocolate, they’re going for food to comfort themselves or reward themselves. Those are low endorphin signs, we’ll match up those symptoms to the neurotransmitter report on the oat. And then we’ll come in with a therapeutic nutrient like dl phenylalanine, to rebuild the endorphins. And then within four to six weeks, you can have it the 60% difference in symptoms were these people that were running to the cookie because they were stressed or running to the alcohol at night to relax, they no longer need that now, they may still do it. But they literally don’t have the physiological need to do that. Some people say, I just can’t relax until I have that glass of wine. Once you rebuild the brain chemistry, they literally don’t need it anymore.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I mean, if you’re having a stressful day, I mean alcohol Don’t get me wrong is that is a wonderful downer. I mean, it really does help relax people. Now obviously, if you’re going to engage in alcohol, keep it to like a drier champagne, a drier white wine, keep it to a clean alcohol and try to do it after you’ve eaten. So you’re not creating a blood sugar swing, because alcohol can actually lower your blood sugar. And then that creates more cravings and more cravings for junky food, right? So if you’re going to have a glass of alcohol, right, don’t want don’t get drunk. But if you’re going to have a glass, make sure it’s a healthy version, then just try to have some good protein before you have it like so if you go out, for instance, have some oysters, maybe a little bit of seafood, maybe a shrimp cocktail and have a glass of champagne or two or a cabo or Prosecco or something clean, clean, clean alcohol. There’s nothing wrong with that, you know, especially if it’s only if it’s not an everyday kind of thing. I think it’s totally fine. And you know, make sure you’re utilizing some of the nutrients we talked about. So you’re supporting the neurotransmitters as well.

Evan Brand: Yeah, check out our podcast, we did a whole one on the whole biohacking alcohol thing. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, that’s how-

Evan Brand: So, Sunshine, sunshine is huge. I mean, granted, when you’re in certain parts of the country, you really lose the sun, you really lose it because you get clouds. And, you know, if you’re really high northern latitude, it’s really tough to get sun, I’ve got a lot of clients in Canada, and they just get major, major seasonal depression. And so for those people, like a light therapy box can be helpful. I already know for me personally, it’s affected me like when it gets dark at five 6pm. I mean, I just mentally, I just don’t like it. And so the light therapy box can be very good. A lot of times, you’re going to see those at around 10,000. Lux, that’s a pretty bright, pretty bright light. Of course, nothing is going to beat the sunshine. But if it’s like you’re in Alaska, you literally or, you know, hours of sun per day, whereas before it was 12 hours, and now you’re three hours of sunlight. That’s really tough mentally, so sun can be helpful. I wish tanning beds weren’t so controversial. because years ago, I had a friend who worked at a gym who had a level, I think they called it a level three or level four tanning bed, which was not something that closed on you. It wasn’t like magnetic field balanced. Like I measured it, there was no EMF coming from it. But it was almost like the stage lights, almost like a like a theatrical performance, like a red light up at the top. And you could get a tan, I mean, literally in a couple of sessions. But I did it for mental health. And we know that sunlight in general can really help act as almost like morphine, it can really help modulate these opiate receptors in the brain. I remember coming out of a six or seven minute session, and I was just high on life. I felt so good after that. And I thought, wow, I wish this didn’t have to be so controversial. Because if someone could get access to something like this, if we knew that it wasn’t going to increase risk of skin cancers and such, man, what could it do for all the depressed people out there that have Seasonal Affective issues in the winter?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I think it just comes down to when you’re dealing with sun, it’s just don’t burn, you know, just just don’t get a burn and you’ll be fine. And that’s different for every single person. And so of course, you know, natural sunlight is going to be ideal. I think it’s gonna be excellent. So that’s a good first step for sure. We talked about some of the B vitamins and things and it gets really essential. I think also, you know, just from a financial standpoint, I think it’s really, really good. People talk about it, just having that six month emergency fund, right, try to have, you know, six months of being able to take care of your family, whether it’s food, living mortgage, just try to really make sure at least three to six months if people had that during COVID. I think there’d be way way, way less financial stress for people. I know, it’s a tough thing to do. But I think it’s something to strive for in regards to financial health is just really look for that six months, three to six month emergency fund. I think you’re smart.

Evan Brand: Yeah. And try to get rid of things that you don’t truly need. I mean, I had several people who say oh, you know this or that about budget, but they’ve got the hundred and $40 a month cable bill and they’ve got the the you know, the subscription to this or that that adds up to hundreds and hundreds of dollars a month. So I think with the reducing subscriptions where you can the emergency fund is smarter than from the food security perspective. Two, I remember months ago, you and I were talking about this it was there was talk about some of these meat processing plants and stuff shutting down and I had literally some of my clients freaking out thinking that they were going to run out of meat and not be able to feed their family. I mean, they were probably just watching too much news about the subject. But that’s why I always recommend everyone have a good chest freezer, you can get him for $100 and go on local harvest or eat wild, or just Google local farms around you, we have a farm that I pay him a little bit extra, but they’ll deliver to the house. And we’ll have literally an entire chest freezer full of amazing grass fed meat at anywhere from six to $10 a pound depending on the cut. And we don’t have to worry about going to Whole Foods where we’re going to get shamed if we don’t want to wear a mask, and then we’re buying their overpriced stuff sitting in the fridge. I’ve got my local farm, you know, bringing pastured meats at a fraction of the cost to my door, throw in the chest freezer, I sleep great at night knowing that if something were to happen to the food supply, my children and my wife and I will be well fed. And then of course well what if the electrical grid? Well, I don’t know. That’s that’s, that’s pretty slim chance. I know, people in California worried about that earlier this year, because of the fires, people were thinking, well, what if I have the chest freezer full of meat? And then the electrical grid goes off? Because California turns off my power generator? You know, hopefully, it’s not a long term thing. But you just got a problem solution problem solution, you can’t just get paralyzed by the problems.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, absolutely. You know, I always talk about it, you got to close the loop, right? You know, you have a problem. When you don’t close the loop. And you think about the solution, and you keep these loops, I call them keeping these loops open. That’s where stress happens when you close the loop. That’s where you feel a lot better, because it’s our problem solution. Problem solution, you’re constantly opening and closing loops all day long. That’s kind of how you want to think about it. So you have maximal you know, stress reduction. So we talked about physiology, right? That’s the foundation because remember, that’s like the this is the vehicle This is a suit, the biochemical suit we have to walk through every day and not everyone’s suit is the same and how we can deal with stress. So if you’re looking coming into this, you know, 20 minutes late, you’re like, Well, what do I focus on, focus on the physiological biochemical suit, because that gives you the ability to adapt. And then from there, you can try to grab one or two things that work best for you. mindsets, really important, dealing with some of these stress can be helpful. Talking about some of the supplements can be helpful. Making sure you’re in a good kind of financial situation can be helpful as well. You know, those are all good kind of strategies out of the gates. Anything else you want to talk about functional medicine wise. So we talked about some of the organic acid testing and looking at neurotransmitters that can be helpful, because I find people that are, you know, let’s say long term stressed out people, we’re going to see a lot of neurotransmitter patterns that are pretty depleted regarding amino acids and dopamine and adrenaline and serotonin. And that may be a longer thing you have to work on replacing with amino acids. So that may not be just a supplement you want to dunk on, they may take a while to work on depleting that, especially, you know, the faster it happens when you work on all the sleep stuff and the diet stuff that gets better, but that the bucket that may need some effort to work on depleting.

Evan Brand: Yeah, the only other functional medicine piece we’re going to be looking into for these like super stress, people’s looking into the gut, we’re going to be looking at gut inflammation. We’re going to be looking at parasites, bacterial overgrowth, all the stuff we normally talk about Candida, because there could be some more functional reasons why someone is going into the cookies, for example, or the alcohol, maybe on a neurotransmitter test, they look okay, but in regards to their gut, maybe they have all these bacterial pathogens are parasitic pathogens that are kind of like begging for some sort of quick burning glucose, right? So we may come in. And I noticed personally just using some Mimosa, I was doing some experiments with not not the orange juice cocktail thing, but actual most of the seed most a tree seed in capsule form. That’s very beneficial for calming down my gut. And I noticed mentally I was calm, just by calming down my gut. So don’t forget about the gut brain access, there is a connection there. And so if you’re having digestive problems now, whether that’s due to stress, or whether it’s due to infections, if you’re having diarrhea or constipation, or stomach cramping or food intolerances, you got to try to address those because it does signal and alert Danger, danger to the brain, meaning if you’re going and eating this allergenic food, irritating the gut that can then irritate your brain and cause issues. So I’ve had some people that have gotten anxious after certain foods, and we know that histamine is a neurotransmitter as well. So if you’re having histamine reactions, even just something like a low histamine diet may be useful to help calm the brain down because of some of the reactions there with histamine. So people think it’s just histamine allergies. No, but it can also affect your brain chemistry. And so you got to focus on that maybe herbal anti histamines or something we would use or some enzymes to help to reduce some of the effectiveness of the histamine on the brain. So I think that’s probably my last piece.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and those are all valid points. For sure. You know, you talked about histamine, you talked about inflammation, and inflamed brains not going to focus and not going to do as well. So again, inflammation, whether it’s food allergens or deeper gut issues is a big one. Also medical palsy women, you know, lower hormone issues can affect the brain. So try to make sure your hormones are at least at a good stable place because that’s going to help with brain inflammation that’s gonna help with cognitive stuff as well. So everyone’s coming at this from a different place from from a different foundational weakness. So just try to figure out where you’re at and take at least one or two steps, you know, Ford on that. Also exercise can be helpful. So just try to find a couple of movements, simple movements that you can do 510 minutes, that’s going to help really decrease a bunch of stress. So whether it’s a push movement, a pull movement, a set or squat, a bender, a pole, whatever that movement pattern is just try to engage in some of these simple movements, it’s going to really help your mood, it’s going to take a lot of that mental energy and allow you to kind of put it out into that physical movement pattern.

Evan Brand: Oh, 100% Yeah, exercise is key. I should have mentioned it earlier. I mean, I feel amazing after I just do some dumbbells or roll machine or hike in the woods, hike in the field, you know, whatever I could do to move. I mean, that’s in its free, right, it’s free, so and you don’t need any permission to do that. So obviously, if you’re going into a gym and you’re doing the whole mass thing in a gym, maybe that’s not as fun so get outside go somewhere where you know, you have your own space and you don’t have people you know, breathing down your neck, so to speak. But I think with the gut piece, the neurotransmitter piece, the aminos here’s kind of the the summary of today and what’s been going on in the world. A lot of people are just like, hey, things are crazy, I give up. But this is actually the time where you really want to dial things in even more. This is a time where you want to focus even more to keep your body keep your mind keep your your sleep patterns healthy. This is not a time where screw it I’m going to go off the rails and just drink a case of beer. It This isn’t the time to do that a lot of people they’re so stressed they have no other coping mechanism. But I would argue everything you and I’ve been talking and doing and preaching and clinically doing for people. This is kind of like the showdown This is like okay, what did all that work we put in actually do did we were we the last man standing, meaning everyone else got burned out and ended up on you know, anti anxiety medication. And we stayed calm and cool through the whole thing. I think this is the time where you can see all the hard work paying off.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% I think you’re totally kind of dialed in. Also, one thing I’ve been doing a little bit is a little more meditation and just keep it really simple with breathing. Just focus on breath, you can do kind of a biofeedback device like the Muse that I’ve talked about, we’ll put a link down below for that. That’s one thing I’m experimenting more with. It just kind of gives you that little bit of a thumbs up from a biofeedback standpoint that you’re you’re you’re putting your brain in a pretty good place when you’re meditating. I think it gives people confidence. They’re doing it right. The problem I find with meditation, people are like, Am I doing this right? And there’s just insecurity and what the heck they’re doing. And then that prevents them from being compliant with it. So I think having a extra kind of pat on the back yet you’re doing the right You’re doing good with a some kind of a device that helps whether it’s whether it’s HRV, or the Muse or M wave type of technology, these kind of things I think are helpful to give you the confidence that you’re doing something right.

Evan Brand: Yeah, yeah, the floatation tank is awesome. So doing doing a float would be good. deep tissue massage would be great. calming essential oils would be great Epsom salt baths would be great is anything you can do to downshift. We talked about the shifting phenomenon quite a bit, but-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: There’s a lot, there’s a lot of options for sure.

Evan Brand: Okay, cool. Well, let’s wrap this thing up. So if people need help, we’re here for you. We always have been and we intend to be kind of on the front lines, helping people with all this stuff. So if you need to reach out to Dr. J. JustinHealth.com is the website. If you need to reach out to me, EvanBrand.com is the website and we’re here for you. So don’t give up. Don’t give in. You got to keep pushing forward every day, you still got to put your pants on, you still got to do the thing, whether it’s take care of your kids take care of your wife, your husband take care of career, you still got to move forward. So I know it’s easy to get kind of stuck and like you mentioned I like the idea of the open loops closing the loops. I didn’t get stuck in these open loops, but you got to close the doors. Try to simplify try to you know, minimize decision making focus on the big things and you’re going to be just fine.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I love it. Excellent and Well, great podcast today EvanBrand.com to reach out to Evan, JustinHealth.com to reach out to me we’re available worldwide. If you want to dive in, look deeper at your physiology, biochemistry, neurotransmitters, gut whatever the root issue is. We’re here to help you guys have a phenomenal day. Click down below for all the important links, guys. Take care. Bye.

Evan Brand: Take care now. Bye bye.


References:

https://www.evanbrand.com/

https://justinhealth.com/

Audio Podcast:

Coronavirus and Low Vitamin D Levels – Is There An Increased Risk | Podcast #286

How’s it going, everyone? In today’s podcast, Dr. J is looking at how we can help quench that inflammation and how to address low Vitamin D levels knowing that the Coronavirus is causing a lot of inflammation in the lungs. Dr. J is honing in on antioxidants, Vitamin C, glutathione (which will help with electrolytes), and Vitamin D as an immunomodulator (which gives us a better, more intelligent immune response). And what lowers our Vitamin D levels? Lack of sunlight is a big one. If you’ve been indoors almost 24/7, you’re probably not getting enough Vitamin D and this is crucial for physical and mental health. The Coronavirus cannot survive outside in direct sunlight with at least 40% humidity for more than a minute, so going out into your own backyard or walking along the sidewalk while keeping six feet away from any passerbys won’t hurt you, it’ll help you get in some Vitamin D, get some fresh air into those lungs, increase your physical movement, and more!

Dr. J and Dr. Evan Brand also look at Coronavirus case fatality by age, lending us more perspective to help lessen stress. Still, Dr. J encourages you to try and get in the foundational nutrients and minerals to strengthen your immune system: Vitamin A, Vitamin C, Vitamin D (5000 IUs), glutathione or NaC, and Zinc (30-50mg/day).

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

In this episode, we cover:

5:15 Why we need to go outside

07:21 Age brackets of coronavirus cases

10:43 Analyzing online data and stats

17:42 Vitamin D correlation

30:56 Vitamin C levels given to coronavirus patients

39:11 About the coronavirus vaccine

Youtube-icon

 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Hey, guys.  It’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani here really happy to be back. We got a fabulous podcast on deck for you today.  We’ll be chatting about the correlation and potential causation between low vitamin D and COVID-19/coronavirus infection and symptoms.  Evan, how are we doing today, man?

Evan Brand:  Doing very well.  We got off of this topic for a couple of weeks to go back to some other regular stuff but considering this is still going on—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Evan Brand:  There are still everybody on the planet wearing masks everywhere they go and places are still shut down and a lady in Dallas is getting put in jail for trying to open her salon to feed her kids.  I felt that it was important for us to discuss some of these things that are coming out in the literature.  Things that should be the headlines but they are not the headlines because they don’t involve death directly and they are free mostly or very cheap to implement like vitamin C and vitamin D.  So why don’t we go straight into this one paper that you had just sent me over, the one that was titled, “Can Early and High Intravenous Dose of vitamin C Prevent and Treat Coronavirus?” from Dr. Chang because this is pretty, pretty awesome.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Let me set table for everyone here first.  Okay?  So most of the mainstream, kinda conventional approach is to what is going on with coronavirus are very defensive measures, right?  Washing your hands, wearing a mask, okay, right?  Maybe some social distancing.  Maybe quarantine.  These are all kinda common sense, you know, defensive measures that are put in place.  There aren’t really a lot of offensive measures, right?  So we wanna take the time today and just look at some of the things that are in the literature now that there is some evidence out.  Maybe it’s correlation.  Maybe it’s causation. Again, to actually have causation you need a lot of money and studies, so that probably will never happen but we can use knowledge guided by experience to extrapolate the correlation and apply it and see how it works from n equals 1 standpoint applied in your life.  So we are excited to talk about that. Some of the things that we are lining up here are in regards to vitamin D and vitamin C and some of the data on that and the mechanism really is we know inflammation is being caused especially in the lungs by these infections. We know an increase in cytokines can also be produced.  Cytokines are these inflammatory chemical messengers that happen as a result of your immune system and/or the inflammation caused by the virus, and so what happens is your body needs things to kinda help quench the inflammation.  So there are antioxidants.  We call them redox components, right?  Vitamin C is in that pathway, so is glutathione.  They really help quench and they help give off electrons to deal with and neutralize inflammation, and then there are also nutrients like vitamin D that are immunomodulators.  They modulate the immune system and by modulating the immune system, we can have a better, more intelligent immune response, less maybe internal cytokine production.  We can also make natural antimicrobial peptides like cathelicidin and others that can really help knock down even the infection as well, because vitamin D helps modulate that Th1, Th2 immune response.  So if we have a healthier immune response, it’s theoretically we can go after and deal with the infection.  We know the infection rates are—I went over the data last week.  A lot of anecdotal, I shouldn’t even say anecdotal, but a lot of the early antibody testing, for instance, Triumph Foods plant here up in Kansas City, I saw 353 workers tested positive for coronavirus, all 100% of them had no symptoms.  They did a 3300-patient study for the jails, for the federal jails, 3300 patients had coronavirus.  They tested them antibody-wise, 96% had no symptoms, alright?  They did study up in Santa Barbara or LA area and they did a study up in Stanford/Santa Clara area, 50 times plus the amount of people that had the infection actually had antibodies.  So we know this is not a hallmark of a, let’s say a very virulent infection, and Evan will go over the data looking at the ages.  We see a lot of people that are younger are really not really coming down with it.  So that’s important to note and the CDC even said from age 0-17, the flu is actually far more severe than the coronavirus on our young people.

Evan Brand:  Yeah, so I wanna comment on one thing.  I’ll talk about the age in a second but I just wanna point out one thing you said which is that we are finding the infection rate is 50 to 80 times greater than originally thought.  Meaning when you look at all these numbers, oh, 1 new case here, 1 new case there.  That’s like headline but the reality is way more people are infected than we even know like we’re just seeing the tip of the iceberg just based on some of the antibody testing coming out and what we’re finding is I don’t wanna exaggerate it but based on these numbers that are saying 96% plus in these big groups, almost everybody has it or has had it and they’re already making antibodies towards it.  So I wanna –

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Well…

Evan Brand:  Point that out.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I’ll just say we need about 60% to get really this herd immunity level where it’s hard to pass it around.  Like if every other person has antibodies for it, it becomes very difficult to pass it around.  So over time, most people will get it, right?  You know, you can’t—unless you’re gonna totally be in quarantine forever, which I think actually negatively impacts your immune system.  It may make you more susceptible to having more symptoms and succumbing of the virus.  I think even if you’re older and you have comorbidities, you should still be outside and having reasonable social distancing.  Remember, the virus can’t live more than a minute in 75-degree temperature, 40% humidity, only a couple of minutes because we know UVC light kills the virus.  We know that.  It’s a national disinfectant.  So if you are older and you have those comorbidities, you should be outside getting fresh air, you should be getting vitamin D and still keep your distance if you’re concerned, but you should still be outside.  Staying inside is not healthy.  They did a study up at New York City and they found 60% of people that came in with the infection actually had quarantined.  So the quarantine thing is not what it is playing out to be.  I think there is more risk factors in that and how it impacts your immune system just staying inside too long.

Evan Brand:  Yeah, explain that.  It’s like, “Okay, yeah, I was quarantined for the last month.  I didn’t go anywhere but yet you still got the virus somehow”  I thought quarantine was the magic remedy.  You know—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Well, I think moving—

Evan Brand:  So how are these people getting it?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, I think moving is a big thing.  I think getting fresh air, I think getting vitamin D and sunlight, I think just being outside does something.  You know, we talk about it with—you mentioned in the past with forest bathing how it impacts cortisol levels and helps your immune system.  I forget what’s the term for forest bathing?  What’s it?

Evan Brand:  Yeah, shinrin-yoku.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Evan Brand:  And it boosts your NK killer cells, too.  They found that even—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Exactly.

Evan Brand:  Like a 2- to 3-day camping trip in the woods boosted up the NK killer cells which are anti-cancer and many other benefit for a month.  So 2 days boosted the immune system up over 50% for a month.  So this age thing, you and I talked about this before but you were looking at some Italy stuff and the average age of someone who had a fatality from it was 81 years old, and so we have this picture here from the Chinese Center for Disease Control and Korea Center for Disease Control and on and on and on, and long story short, when you’re looking at someone 0 to 9 years old, 0% fatality rate overall; 10 to 19 years old for most countries, 0% overall.  It’s not until you really get into the 30-39-year-old, 40-49, 50-59, 60-69, that you even break above 0 and then you’re getting into 0.1% in the 30-39 group, 0.3% in Spain for 40 to 49-year-olds, 50 to 59-year-old 0.4%.  So still, just really tiny numbers.  You don’t get in ’til the—until your 80 plus years old that you’re getting into a 13% plus fatality rate and even then, we know with Dr. Birx who came on TV and said, “Hey, all of the cases that could possibly be related are still gonna be tagged as COVID until further research and then maybe we’ll go back and adjust those numbers later.”  So how many 81-year-olds are dying that just happen to have the coronavirus in their system.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I’m not sure if you caught it over the weekend.  Dr. Birx said—she was commenting about the head of the CDC.  She said that there could be up to 25% incorrect on the CDC data points on the COVID-19 deaths/diagnosis.  So she commented that over the weekend which is interesting.  I wanna share some data here on screen just to kind of bolster the things that you’re saying.  So if you guys are listening to this, you can always jump on the Youtube link as well to get some more information.  So here’s the study that Evan was showing here, looking at corona case fatality rates by age.  So you can see here 0-9, 10-19, 20-29, so I mean you’re at looking at very minuscule percentage points here, right?  Very minuscule percentage points, 30-39 and then it starts really going up significantly once you get into 60-79 but even that, I mean, really it’s 70 and 80 is where it really goes up.  You still only have a chance, you know, a 1% to 2% chance in the 60-69, right?  Yeah.

Evan Brand:  Well, let me point this out, too, real quick while you got that up which is that the percentages are actually gonna be lower than what is showing here because these numbers are based on confirmed cases.  So confirmed cases, confirmed death.  So if there’s many other people that have had it, they might not even show up here.  So, if you know what I’m saying, so on their website.  This is a world data website.  They’re saying you can’t even take these numbers and really publicly talk about them too much because we haven’t had enough testing.  So once we do get tested, let’s say we tested another hundred thousand people and put them in that pool, those death rates would be way, way, way, way lower.  Those are confirmed cases and then confirmed deaths.  So, basically how many other people are out there that have it haven’t gotten tested and therefore, their numbers don’t get factored in. So it makes it look worse than it even is.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So here are the coronavirus deaths from last week, okay?  And so how it works is this.  You have the top numbers the deaths, the bottom numbers the case.  So you divide the top number by the bottom number and then you get a percentage, okay?  That’s how you figure out the mortality rate.  So when Evan talks about this, this data here is if there are more cases than we know about, right?  That makes the denominator the bottom number bigger, right?  And what we’re finding is, the cases are actually getting far more bigger because of the fact the asymptomatics.  The data is showing a 50X asymptomatic being present.  Looking at the Stanford study, they show data there and up at the study up in Chelsea, Mass. in Boston.  Study down in the UCLA area.  USC did a study.  So there’s about 3 to 5 different studies on this already out there.  I did a video on this last Friday on my Youtube channel.  We’ll put that video in the description so you can go dive into that.  So the data’s there.  Now, we do know here.  This came from Italy.  Right here, this study here.  It only bolstered what we talked about so you can see it came from a government agency, Istituto Superiore di Sanità.  Even though my last name is Marchegiani, I don’t really speak the best Italian.  So—

Evan Brand:  I had a lady—I actually had a client go, “Yeah, I like listening to you and that Italian guy.”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  You got it.  I gotta brush up on my Italian, right?

Evan Brand:  Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  But in general, you can see number 1.  It primarily came in 2 major areas here.  Right about 60 what, 69%.  It came in 2 major areas.  There’s a reason why two 2 areas were hit really hard.  I can go into it briefly but Lombardi is a big area where there’s a lot of textiles produced there.  So a lot of Italian textiles are produced, right?  China bought a lot of companies.  Italian clothing companies, brand companies, and instead of making it in China, they wanted to keep the Made in Italy type of logo and branding on there, so they fly a lot of Chinese up here to these areas to work on the products in the textile industry in the mills.  So part of the reason why these areas were hit so hard is there was a flow of Chinese up here to go work in the textiles.  So that’s a big reason why, not to mention there is a just a lot of elderly population up there.  Now, let’s look at the data.  So if you go down a little bit lower.  You could see the average age is a little bit over 80.  About 80, 81-ish, and then when you look at the people that actually die, I mean, look you don’t really have an increase until you get in the 60s.  I mean, look at that.  So this is the deaths here and you can see men are actually being hit, about two-thirds are men and one-third are women, and you don’t have an increase in women until you get to up 90+.  That’s probably because most of the men are already dead by then.  So you can see that spread right there and then look at the diagnosis, right?  So this is interesting because they break down more percent of people had what disease that died of COVID.  Now, when you go down at the bottom, a number of comorbidities.  Look at this, 3 or more comorbidities, 61%.  That is unbelievable.  So there—what’s being put, portrayed in the media is that this is an infection that could just take anyone down, right?  No matter what.  No, that’s not the case.  Not even close.  The data does not support that.  Now, when we actually put reason, logic, and evidence here, there’s a lot less fear guiding people.  This is a disease that’s gonna take primarily elderly people, people that have multiple comorbidities.  Now is it possible that you’re gonna see a news article with someone who is 20 or 29 passing?  Yeah, I mean 0.2% in China, 0.22% in Spain, 0 in Italy, right?  Once you hit 30-39, then you had 0.3%.  Is it possible someone from this age category could die?  Yeah, it’s very possible.  You don’t know what their comorbidity status is.  There’s HIPAA laws in the United States so, you’re not gonna see reporters saying, “Hey, this person was a type 2 diabetic.  Hey, this person eats processed food.  Hey, this person whatever.”  You’re not gonna get that data.  So it’s easy for people to be like, “Ooh, I’m so scared.  It’s attacking people that are in their 30s.”  You just don’t know about that person and obviously, you don’t even know if the person they’re putting up on screen is even in the last couple of years or their most relevant decade.  A lot of times they are notorious for showing younger pictures of people that have passed.  That’s pretty common.  So I just wanna lay out the data and just look at, you know, what these statistical norms are for these infections so people can get a perspective, and then part of the correlation and why it’s older people is number one, you have had more time to accumulate a disease because the bad habits compounded over time is what creates diseases, right?  And then also, certain nutrients like vitamin C and vitamin D go down over age and we’ll look at the data in a second on that.

Evan Brand:  Yeah, you did good.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  It is here.

Evan Brand:  No, I’m glad you pointed out the three—the comorbidities and over 61% of the deaths and I’m glad you showed for people that are just listening, that’s okay.  You’re not missing out on much.  We’re just talking about the numbers here, so hopefully it makes sense.  But the hysteria math versus the reality math, I really like that you put that together because once you talk about the—which really you did even put what’s coming out now.  You put on here there’s 50X asymptomatic.  Now, we’re seeing it could even be 80X asymptomatic but the real death rate with your 50X asymptomatic math is showing a 0.01 death rate versus if we go up to 80, I mean, it’s gonna be even smaller than 0.01 deaths.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And this is less than the flu already by the way.  So the numbers are, just so you’ll understand.  Hysteria math is not understanding the full breadth of the case, okay?  So not understanding the full population—the extent to which people are affected across the board because the asymptomatics prevent people from being tested that have no symptoms, right?

Evan Brand:  Well, can we—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  They’re not gonna go to the hospital.

Evan Brand:  Now, let me ask you.  Let me ask you this real quick, too, based on what you said over the weekend happened.  So you’re saying that the hysteria math is even gonna be cut down by 25% now, is that right?  Because of what Birx was saying?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.  Yup, I’ll pull that article up here in a second.  But that is what is showing here as well.  The hysteria math may even be cut down more and there’s 2 different diagnostics codes.  I’ve already talked about it in the past but the hysteria math, the diagnostics codes are U07.1, U07.2.  Let me pull this up here as we chat.  This will hopefully help you guys out.  It will give you a little bit more info here.  I’m gonna help you guys out on this, okay?

Evan Brand:  And while you’re doing that, let’s talk about what the whole point of today is, so we can’t spend all day on the stats but what people really want to hear is that, well, I think we covered a lot of which one here, which is that the numbers just are not adding up to what is happening in society, with police arresting people, and you know, using helicopters, the surveillance speech, and they’ve talked about these contact tracer programs and apps to track people, and all that.  Just weird 1984-style stuff.  But what we’re seeing in some of these new papers here and this is more, as you mentioned, correlation.  This is not necessarily low vitamin D causes blank, but we’re finding that if someone has a level of 30—30 ng, it’s gonna be ng/mL but if you get a standard vitamin D test, just look at your number, 25(OH )is what you’re gonna look at on your blood work.  There’s little to no death at all occurring if the vitamin D is above 30.  So if you’re vitamin D is above 30, if you get it, chances are it’s gonna be mild to moderate at most.  All the major, major, major numbers of death, those had very, very, very low vitamin D.  You’re talking a level of 10, a level of 20.  Those are people that are ending up in real trouble.  So the mean serum, 25(OH)D level in the critical cases was the lowest.  The highest in the mild cases.  So when I’m saying this, it sounds confusing like I’m just thinking of someone driving their car listening to this.  It may sounds confusing.  So I’m trying to make it as simple as possible.  High vitamin D, more mild.  Low vitamin D, more severe.  It’s basically that simple.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Correct.  And then, here’s an article by Washington Post right here.  So during the task force meeting on Wednesday, heated discussion broke out between Deborah Birx from the physician administration and Robert Redfield, he is the director of the CDC.  Birx and others were frustrated with the CDC’s antiquated system of tracking virus data which they worried was inflating some statistics such as mortality rate and case counts by as much as 25%, according to 4 people present for the discussion.  Two senior administration officials said the discussion was not heated.  So we have this 25% number that is interestingly popping up.  So I just—I wanted to highlight that and then here’s some of data here briefly I wanted to highlight more than 370 workers at a pork plant in Missouri tested positive, right?  We go down here and look at the data.  What do they say?  All of them were asymptomatic.  All were asymptomatic, okay?  We go here and look at the—in 4 US state prisons, nearly 3300 inmates tested positive for coronavirus, 96% without symptoms, okay?  Now, let me just be clear.  Asymptomatic means you develop an immune response.  You develop antibodies.  You are infectious for 2 weeks or so on average.  The infection is no longer shedding after about 2 weeks on average.  You have antibodies and now more than likely you won’t be able to get sick for years.  Now, we go to the USC study, similar, similar thing here.  USC study, they found that the estimate 28 to 55 times higher in the antibodies versus the confirmed cases, okay?  We have a study here, Science Magazine, similar type of category here.  On this thing here, this I think is looking at Germany though.  I think this is up in Europe and the same thing, I had it highlighted here earlier.  I will have to come back to this one.

Evan Brand:  Well, I saw one thing at the top there where it said that the infection rate was 30% higher.  I saw that near the top of that article.  It was talking about Germany and did it say Netherlands as well?  Yeah, there it goes.  Survey results Netherlands, Germany, several locations in the US find that anywhere from 2 to 30% of certain populations have already been infected with it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Exactly.  Yup, exactly.  There is an actual number down here.  I had it highlighted earlier but, let’s see here, 99% false positive—

Evan Brand:  There’s a—are you talking about the paragraph right there at the top?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Here it is.  There it is, right there.  That’s more than 50 times as many viral gene test had confirmed and implies a low fatality rate.  So 50 times the amount of viral—meaning there are 50 times more people that had the antibodies than the viral gene test had confirmed.  That’s what I’m saying there.  So 50 times more people had antibodies which showed previous infection that were actually testing positive for the infection.  And then the Guardian right here, coronavirus antibody study in the California, right here in the county here at the high end, was 85 times, okay?  85 times, right there.

Evan Brand:  And people are listening and they’re like, “Wait a second.  What are you saying?  85 times?”  That the infection rate is 85 times higher than previously thought.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  For every 1 person that test positive with this PCR-DNA swab, they take the little swab, they put it to the back of your nose and hit the back of your throat, you test positive, right?  So when I say 50 times, that means that there are 50 other people that never had the infection symptomatically that are testing serologically positive for it.  Meaning they have an immune response showing that they got exposed to the infection.  Does that make sense?

Evan Brand:  It does.  But when people hear that, they go, “Oh my God! Well, 50 times more people are infected, well, I need to stay away from humans ever.  Don’t hug your mother for Mother’s Day.”  Those were some of the headlines.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  No, that means that this virus is not as virulent as we thought it is.  And maybe—so contagious is meaning, it is easy to spread, right?  I think the virus is very contagious.  It is easiness to spread.  That’s the R-nought number, right?  The virulence is how the strong the infection is, right?  So you have like a virus like Ebola, it kills 40% of people that it comes in contact with.  That’s strong virulence.  Ebola, not that contagious.  I think it only spread to a couple of thousand people.  So usually, in kind of virus world, there tends to be a correlation with the more virulent the virus, the stronger and the more chance that it can kill you, usually the less contagious it is.  Now, you have the Spanish flu of 1918, right?  Why was that a big deal?  Well, we didn’t have antibiotics, right?  So there’s a lot of post-viral secondary pneumonia that happens that if you don’t have antibiotics then a lot of times that’s the pneumonia that kills you.  Not to mention we had a second wave in 1918 because of people coming back, soldiers coming back from World War 1 in Germany that re-brought back the infection.  Not to mention I don’t think we really had a lot of the good sterile things like—we didn’t really have a lot of the hygiene things kinda fully dialed in back then either, and I know there were big, huge changes when they started doing hospitals outside and getting more vitamins.  That also made a huge game change there as well.

Evan Brand:  Well, good point.  I’m really glad that you pointed out that there is the issue of virulence versus how easy it can spread and those often get conflated together.  Those 2 things get kinda fused and mended.  So the media will make it appear that it is extremely virulent but it could just be low virulence, high contagion.  And that’s—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Exactly.

Evan Brand:  That doesn’t sell as many newspaper articles or ad clicks or whatever else.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Exactly.  I wanted to put a couple of studies that came out recently out there.  Vitamin D supplementation could possibly improve clinical outcomes of patients infected with coronavirus.  Now, these are observational studies, okay?  Meaning they didn’t do a clinical control.  They didn’t put—they didn’t do someone in a metabolic ward, gave him a virus and then gave him vitamin D, and then did the same thing to another group and gave them the virus and no vitamin D, and randomized it.  That’s like the double-blind placebo control study.  That’s not this.  This is observational and there’s always the healthy user bias.  What’s the healthy user bias?  The healthy user bias is people that take care of themselves and do the right thing and drink good water and get some sleep and move, and may also have good vitamin D, right?  So then people that have good vitamin D, they may be doing a lot of other things right that keep them healthy.  And so we may be seeing that in here, so it’s always possible.  But in the study, I’ll just put it up here and then people always ask like, “What’s the link? What’s the link?”  Right here.  This is the link, okay?  That’s the link right there.  We’ll try to put the links in below the video as well.  Let’s look at the study.  Let me just go right down to the conclusion.  The results suggest that an increase in serum 25-hydroxy vitamin D level in the body could either improve clinical outcome or mitigate the severe critical outcomes.  While a decrease in the serum 25-hydroxy vitamin D level could worsen clinical outcomes.  In conclusion, this study provides substantial information to clinical—to clinicians and help policymakers.  Vitamin D supplementation could possibly improve clinical outcomes of patients infected with COVID-19.  Further research should conduct randomized controlled trials in larger population studies to evaluate recommendations.  That’s I think very powerful right there.

Evan Brand:  And let me just point this was the same stuff that just a month ago people were getting flagged as fake news and videos were removed and whatever else and people were saying this early on, vitamin D, vitamin C, you and I were saying this and not us directly, but others had been told that this was like misinformation and whatever.  No, I mean, it’s coming out more and more to be true and it makes total sense.  We knew that from the beginning.  It’s just good to have some papers to back it up now.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah and basically, the cut off was vitamin D status below 30 ng/mL was associated with more severe disease and mortality in the Southeast Asian study, okay?  And then in general, one study gave adequate stats was 31.2.  So basically, when you went above 30 or 35, things definitely improved.  So levels above 34 is associated with an improvement.  So that was kinda the general gist.  So that’s just kinda highlighting that there and then if we can go here to this study, vitamin D level of mild and severe in elderly cases they found here most male and female subjects had 25-hydroxy vitamin D levels below 30.  Also, most of the subjects with pre-existing conditions had 25-hydroxy vitamin D level below 30.  So now the question here is, well, is it because they are sick and unhealthy?  Now they have a harder time getting outside and getting vitamin D.  So maybe the diseases are also causing them to have lower vitamin D and then the diseases themselves make them more susceptible to the infection.  So these are always—these I’m just talking about like like confounding variables, things that could be affecting the situation that we’re not really factoring.  So I’m just kinda spitballing, you know, off the cup with you guys.  Majority of subjects classified as severe 25-hydroxy vitamin D levels were below 30, 25-hydroxy vitamin D levels were negatively related although clinically—clinical trials could provide more meaningful findings are the causation that 25-hydroxy D levels in COVID-19 severity.  Basic healthy solutions such as vitamin D supplementation could be raised even in community levels and awareness of vitamin D benefits in fighting infections such as COVID-19 should be disseminated especially in the vulnerable elderly population.  So they found it important enough that we should be raising the awareness of vitamin D in our elderly population.  I think that was very, very important and powerful.  You wanna comment there?

Evan Brand:  Yeah, it makes sense.  Yeah, I just sent you a link in the chat from this New York Post story.  So let’s move on from vitamin D and if you need a good vitamin D source, we do have professional-grade formulas.  So you can—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Correct.

Evan Brand:  Get a hold of us, justinhealth.com or my website evanbrand.com.  What we like to use is vitamin D usually around 5,000 units depending on the case and then we have professional versions that are also gonna have vitamin K1 and K2, which are very beneficial and those can help with reducing any potential blood clotting issues because there have been a couple of papers, a couple of articles coming out on people having blood coagulation problems—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Correct.

Evan Brand:  And having more severity so the K1 and K2 would help in theory thin the blood a little and reduce risk.  But check out this New York Post one that—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Actually with Vitamin K though, vitamin K may actually increase the clotting.  So you may want to be a little bit careful on the vitamin K.  Some of the over-the-counter Naproxen is showing to be a little bit beneficial, maybe a little bit of white willow bark aspirin, baby aspirin, or maybe some natural white willow bark could be helpful or some higher dose like nattokinase enzymes.  So maybe the systemic enzymes could also be very, very helpful in kinda thinning things out.  So be careful with the vitamin K.  Now, if you’re getting it from food, from green vegetables or ghee or butter, you’re probably okay.  So I wanted to highlight that.

Evan Brand:  Yeah, I must have said it wrong. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Anything else you want to say?

Evan Brand:  I must have said it wrong.  Yeah, no you did good.  For some reason I was thinking that there was some issue with like the Coumadin and the vitamin K combo.  I guess we’re thinking that the blood—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  It inhibits the vitamin K.

Evan Brand:  It’s gonna mess it up.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:   It’s gonna mess it up.  Now again, like I would never say don’t eat your green vegetables or don’t eat your ghee because I think that there’s enough nutrition and antioxidants in those compounds.  Like in this study, we’ll talk about it.  They talk about sulforaphane actually helping with a lot of the cytokines and that inflammation.  Well, guess what?  That’s what the infection is causing.  So we wouldn’t ever wanna decrease the nutrients.  I just think you wanna hold those nutrients stable and let your doctor, you know, know about that if they’re gonna be adding a blood thinner in there.  It’s really only gonna matter if you’re doing something on the more like vitamin K inhibition side, right?

Evan Brand:  Okay, yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  There are other ways to thin out bloods besides that.

Evan Brand:  Alright, makes sense.  Alright, so check out that New York Post I sent you.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Okay, let’s take a look at that.

Evan Brand:  That was the Vitamin C one where basically this guy in the US, Dr. Weber, had basically looked at what was coming out of China and so he started implementing it in the US and you know, they’re talking about 23 different hospitals throughout New York.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Let me get it on screen.  Let me get it on screen here for everyone to see.

Evan Brand:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So this is it here, New York Post treating with Vitamin C.

Evan Brand:  Yeah, and towards the bottom, he was talking about vitamin C levels in coronavirus patients dropped dramatically when they suffer sepsis and inflammatory response, so it makes all the sense in the world to try to maintain this level of it and there’s something else—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Vitamin C is administered in addition to such as the anti-malaria drug, that’s hydroxychloroquine, the antibiotic azithromycin, versus—and various biologics and blood thinners.  Yeah, it makes.

Evan Brand:  And then towards the top where his headshot is, go up where his headshot is, scroll up a little bit.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Evan Brand:  Yeah, so right there.  The patients who received vitamin C did significantly better than those who did not get vitamin C.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Really interesting.  Let me kind of dovetail on that.  So this is a study, actually out of China.  Medical Drug and Discovery, this is early March.  Can early and high intravenous vitamin D—vitamin C prevent and treat coronavirus?  So this is interesting.  So they’re talking about the acute respiratory distress syndrome and they’re talking about early uses of large dose of antioxidants and they abbreviated it as VC, vitamin C, may be an effective treatment for these patients.  Clinical studies also show that high doses of oral vitamin C provide certain protection against viral infection, which is great.  Neither of these things have side effects, which is awesome.  I mean, if you go too high on the vitamin C, you could get loose stool.  You may bypass that if you’re doing intravenous.  They talk about coronavirus and influenza are among the pandemic viruses that can cause lethal lung injuries, right?  The acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS).  Viral infections could evoke cytokine storm that leads to lung capithelial and endothelial activation, neutrophil infiltration—that’s the white blood cells getting in there and lots of oxidative stress, right?  Which create reactive oxygen and nitrogen species.  What’s oxidation, everyone?  That’s a loss of electron, like when you’re in doctorate school, right?  You remember the saying OIL RIG, okay?  Oxidation is a loss of an electron and reduction is a gain of electron.  So when someone talks about oxidation, they’re talking about losing electrons and guess what?  We have antioxidants.  What’s an antioxidant?  Anti—it’s an anti-loss of electron compound.  So basically, they are donating electrons—they’re donating electrons when electrons are lost.  That’s what vitamin D—that’s what vitamin C is doing.  And so—so talks about it is usually accompanied by uncontrolled inflammation, oxidative injury and damage to the alveolar capillary barrier.  So what happens is with the capillaries, there’s the what’s called Boyle’s law where there’s gases exchanged, right?  Deoxygenated gases or deoxygenated blood is being exchanged with oxygenated blood and then it goes back up to the left atrium, back to the left ventricle and then that oxygenated blood goes, but if there’s inflammation and damage to the capillaries and the alveoli in the lungs, you’re not gonna be able to exchange oxygen.  That’s why you’re seeing this oxygen drop.  So increased oxidative stress is a major insult in pulmonary injury and it manifests with substantially high mortality and morbidity.  Now this is interesting, they talked about in the case report 29 patients with COVID-19 pneumonia showed an increase in C-reactive protein.  That’s a marker of inflammation.  It’s a marker of oxidative stress and they talked about that activation of the Nrf2 signaling plays an essential role in preventing cell injury from oxidative stress.  So Nrf is like this anti-aging path that people try to increase with magnesium.  They increase this with curcumin.  They increase it with bioflavonoids like resveratrol.  They increase it with compounds like milk thistle which help actually decrease a lot of this oxidation.  Alright, I’ll pause right there, Evan, so you can comment.  Go ahead.

Evan Brand:  No, I think you’ve hit it all but the best part of this paper is right there at the bottom of your screen there, which is showing that they’re doing—they’ve had 50 and I mean, I’m sure the numbers are much higher than now because more time has passed but that in the treatment of 50 moderate to severe cases, high-dose vitamin C was successfully used.  Doses vary between 10 and 20 grams a day and there was another part of this.  It may have been another paper I have but basically, it was showing that even 6 grams a day oral was enough to reduce the infection risk and/or to improve symptoms so it’s amazing.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Correct. 

Evan Brand:  Yeah, it’s right there.  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Correct.  Yup, 100%.  I think what you said—and I’m putting all the studies up on screen because I know what we’re saying may be a little bit controversial in case people are watching a lot of mainstream news that may be like, “Well, why the heck haven’t we been—have heard about this stuff?”  Well, frankly it’s because certain governmental agencies they’re gonna, you know, tell the partyline in food and supplements and natural compounds really isn’t part of that which is kinda sad as this study over here showed, you know, they mentioned that vitamin D should be disseminated especially to the vulnerable population.  Meaning that information should be disseminated.  Research is saying it, so it’s not me saying it.  Of course, that’s kinda where my bias lies because I think vitamins, especially essential nutrients your body can’t make of course should be at adequate levels.  Let me go back to this study here.  So the oxygenation index improved in real-time so people were actually getting better oxygen exchange.  They were cured and were discharged.  In fact, high-dose vitamin C has been clinically used for several decades in recent NIH expert panel, and again I’m not saying by the way, right?  I’m not saying people were cured.  I’m saying the study said that.  So that’s not me speaking that, right?  We don’t ever cure disease, right?  Of course, only a drug can cure disease, right?  That’s my legal disclaimer there.  Alright, because of the development of the efficacious vaccines, antiviral drugs, because of the developments in these drugs, how they take more time to occur, right?  18 months for a vaccine.  Vitamin C and other antioxidants are among currently available agents to mitigate COVID-19 and then the acute respiratory disease syndrome.  Given the facts of the high-dose vitamin C is safe, healthcare professionals should take a close look at these opportunity.  Obviously, well-designed clinical studies need to be developed so you can create the right protocols.  But in general, there’s good data for this and I think this is a first-line thing that I have been saying from day 1.  We look at the nutrients we need to support our immune system.  What are the foundational ones?  Vitamin A, cod liver oil, vitamin C, you know, your leafy green vegetables and some of your low-sugar fruit but also get it supplementally so it’s more therapeutic.  Vitamin D, sunlight, some places mostly supplementation to get at that higher level, right?  My goal was about 50 ng/mL on the vitamin D.  So I think a good standard recommendation is 5,000 IU for every person.  It gets pretty decently standard.  You could go 10,000 if you’re lower and you need more of a bump and if you’re uncertain, get tested if you can.  But if you don’t wanna leave the home, at least 5,000 is a good starting point as well.  And then so vitamin A, vitamin C, vitamin D and then we could use something like glutathione or an N-acetylcysteine precursor which have been shown to help with the oxidative stress and they also help decrease viral replication.  Not necessarily shown with COVID but it is showing with other viruses to decrease replication.  So that’s kinda like my foundational nutrient stack for anyone listening and then obviously, we can throw some zinc in there as well, 30 to 50 mg of elemental zinc per day.

Evan Brand:  That’s awesome.  Well, let’s wrap it up.  We talked longer than I thought we would on this thing but I am glad we kinda broke down some of these papers because people need to see this stuff and once again, this is not gonna be seen in headline, you know, 6 grams of vitamin D can reduce your risk X amount of percent.  That just won’t be there.  It’s gonna be death toll rises.  I saw one headline over the weekend, life changes as we wait for a vaccine, you know, it’s all this cure me, cure me stuff, but I’m not personally waiting for a magic cure to come.  I’m implementing all these strategies we’re discussing now to reduce my risk as much as possible.  So if I were to get it, you know, hopefully I’d be in that mild to possibly asymptomatic case period.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  You know, people talk about a vaccine coming, I mean, we’ve had 2 other coronaviruses in 2002 and 2003.  We have the SARS coronavirus and then 2015, we had the MERS.  So there’s been a lot—there’s been a lot of time that’s passed and we still don’t have a vaccine.  So people forget that.  So the fact that we don’t have a vaccine for other coronaviruses, odds are there probably won’t be one for this and also, we don’t have even a vaccine for HIV.  So, I’m not aware of any vaccine for an RNA-based virus.  So people can correct me in the description.  I’m not aware of any vaccine that is available for an RNA-based virus so the odds are looking at past history there probably won’t be one this time around but I could be wrong, right?  I know they’re doing different types of vaccines that are more like protein.  They are like taking a specific protein in the virus and they’re trying to make a vaccine that targets that protein but not necessarily attack the virus so they’re doing different things.  I think what’s really interesting is the—is if you have a lot of people that have antibodies, let’s go do platelet therapy.  Let’s go spin out the platelet.  Let’s do a blood transfusion, take the antibodies out of the platelets and then give them the antibodies in an IV.  I mean, I think that’s just a common sense first-line therapy along with all of the nutrients, right?  That we talked about and then maybe we play around with the hydroxychloroquine, azithromycin, and zinc protocol as well if we need.  So I think we have some really good treatments, palliative acute treatments now where maybe a vaccine isn’t even necessary if we can get things under control and get an adequate amount of herd immunity.  It may be totally moot at that point once herd immunity is in place.

Evan Brand:  I saw the president talking over the weekend, people were asking like, “How can life go back to normal without a vaccine?”  And he just was like, “I think is gonna go away on its own without it, so maybe we don’t need it after all.”  But when you see headlines about, you know, X amount of states or X governor says that people must wear masks until a vaccine is created.  What if a vaccine does never come?  That means you’re gonna wear a mask for the next 5 years and what if those people choose not to get it?  Do the people who choose not to get it can’t go back to the grocery store?  Like what, I mean, it’s just, it’s weird.  They’re not really talking about that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Well, how did life go back to normal after the 1918 flu?  I mean, like 3 million died.  Do you know in 1918, Woodrow Wilson didn’t even shut down the economy?  They just kept rolling.  3 million people died.  How do we go back after that?  We did it.  How do we go back after a million people died in the Civil War?  We did it.  How do we go back to life after World World 1 and World War 2 in Vietnam?  We did it, you know.  I mean, our country, United States is a very resilient, very resilient country.  So I’m confident we can do it and I think there’ll be herd immunity in the background that will provide this extra buffer of support.  We didn’t even know about antibodies.  I mean, they actually were doing some antibody, you know, infusion back then in the 1918.  They really didn’t know what was going on.  They didn’t have the testing that we have now.  So we are lightyears above and beyond a lot of this stuff and I think we even—I don’t even think we had vitamin D supplementation back then.  So we are so ahead of the game.  I’m feeling really confident and I’m ready for people to get back to work.

Evan Brand:  Yup, I hear you.  Well, let’s wrap this thing up.  We are available around the world with people.  So we work by sending lab tests, unless it’s blood we send you out to a lab, but for the other labs we do, you do it at your home.  And so if you wanna reach out clinically, get help, boost your immune system up, if you just need to simply run some blood panels or we can look at CRP levels, and vitamin D and things like that, we are available to help facilitate that if need be.  So you could reach out to Dr. J at his website, justinhealth.com.  My website, evanbrand.com and we’re glad to be here for you.  So take good care.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Excellent, everyone.  Great chatting with y’all.  If you enjoy the podcast, put your comments down below.  Really excited to know what you guys think, what you guys are doing, what’s working for you clinically.  We appreciate you spreading the word to family and friends.  Sharing is caring and if you wanna write a review as well, evanbrand.com/itunes, justinhealth.com/itunes for a review.  We really appreciate it, guys.  You take care.  Have a good one.

Evan Brand:  See you later.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Bye. Buh-bye.

 


References:

https://justinhealth.com/

Audio Podcast:

https://justinhealth.libsyn.com/coronavirus-and-low-vitamin-d-levels-is-there-an-increased-risk-podcast-286

Types of Magnesium and Their Benefits | Podcast #236

Magnesium is an essential vitamin that our body needs, especially when we are stressed or if our body needs help in absorbing more nutrients.

In this episode, learn more about the amazing benefits of taking Magnesium supplements, deficiency symptoms, and how it can help in our inner health. Know more about how much Magnesium you need, and the different superfoods that give off this wonderful mineral.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

In this episode, we cover: 

0:51 Magnesium Deficiency

4:20 Magnesium Benefits

9:25 Medications and Magnesium

19:58 RDA (Rat Drugs and Assumptions)

23:44 Diets, Magnesium consumption, etc.

 

Youtube-icon

 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey guys it’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani. Today, we are gonna be chatting about magnesium, types of magnesium benefits, deficiency symptoms and what you can do about it. So, really excited to have today’s talk going on here. Evan, how are we doing today?

 

Evan Brand: Hey man, I’m doing well. I got inspired to talk about magnesium because last night I put on some magnesium oil that I purchased, you know cause I have a lot of clients today ‘oh I put magnesium oil on my legs and it really helps me sleep’ and I’m like ‘oh really?’ you know how, how was like six sprays of topical magnesium really gonna do that much but I did it and I really slept much better. So is it placebo? Did it truly do that much? I mean, I think, we know the literature shows transdermal magnesium as possible so maybe it was that magnesium.

 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. We do know that there’s some data showing that magnesium can help with cortisol levels at night then it can improve deeper sleep at night, and we also know as a large percent of the population is deficient and we can go into a lot of these things why. So why don’t we just dive in? So off the bat– there’s data showing that 50% of the population is deficient in magnesium. Now, why is that? Couple things we know that the soils are becoming more and more depleted based on just lots of pesticides in the soil and roundup. That’s kind of their base roundups like a mineral key later so it hugs the minerals, pulls them away from the plant, and that’s kind of their mechanism of killing. Now, when you dump a whole bunch in the soil over time, it’s gonna really deplete a lot of those minerals in the soil and if those minerals are hugged or chelated away from the plant, that plant cannot take it up it’s Michael Reiser root system. So then you start to have deficiencies in these minerals in the plants because you know, you know if you can’t access, it could it’s being chelated away by glyphosate or roundup. It can’t go on the plant and we know the minerals get, um, uptake by the root system. And minerals also help with the expression of nutrition in the plant. So for instance with manganese, deficient manganese soil tends to cause a significant deficiencies in vitamin C in the plants as well. So it’s not just the mineral deficiency. That mineral deficiency spirals out when the other nutrient deficiencies in the plants main mechanism is microbiome of the soil is being affected, and the number two is just processed refined carbohydrates tend to not have magnesium, and when they go into your body, the Krebs cycle tends to need magnesium to metabolize a lot of this sugar. So it’s like using a credit card with a really high transaction fee that you already can’t pay to begin with. So you have a really high transaction fee, meaning you’re using magnesium to burn up that sugar and that sugar doesn’t even have magnesium in it to begin with, so you’re creating more deficiencies– One, by the soil. Two by the food, and then three in general just with stress excess cortisol excess stress. We will use more magnesium to buffer and to relax and to make GABA and to chill your body out so more stress will be the other key mechanism that will be causing you to burn out magnesium. Thoughts, Evan?

 

Evan Brand: Great analogy! Yeah, I mean it really goes to show how many people are deficient in magnesium. The soil piece that just goes to show more benefits of why you should be eating as much as you possibly can organic, you know, that’s a question we always ask our clients. What percent of your diet is organic make that number is close to a hundred percent as you can at your house, and also you know this time of the year we’re talking in the summertime. You know, a lot of farmers markets are out now. And just because it’s a farmers market food, doesn’t mean it’s organic. Though a lot of farmers still spray, so if you do go the farmers market make sure it’s certified organic or speak with them about did you spray. But if you can go local and organic you’re going to get even more minerals because we know if you could go and buy organic broccoli at Whole Foods that traveled from California, and you’re on the east coast, I mean, that’s potentially 1 to 2 weeks a travel time now. Is it still better than no broccoli?

 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. 

 

Evan Brand: But, if we’re talking, we want our people to be the top 100% of health. If you go down the street to the farmers market, you get broccoli, it was cut yesterday. I mean, you’re gonna have more bang for your buck.

 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%, yeah 100%. So let’s talk about magnesium benefits, okay, so we know magnesium is a relaxer. It helps vasodilate. It relaxes a lot of our blood, so it’s an help with blood vessel and vasculature health. Number 2, it has some really good anti-inflammatory benefits. So we do a lot of organic acid testing and there’s just inflammatory metabolites that we look at call Quinolinate. Quinolinate acid tends to go up in regards to brain inflammation. Now, why is the brain inflamed? It could be from lipopolysaccharides, from bacterial overgrowth, it could be from gluten issues, it could be from pesticide or mold exposure, mycotoxins and we see more Quinolinate acid and that comes out in the urine, but that’s a sign of brain inflammation. Now, we know that magnesium can actually help decrease Quinolinate acid. It decreases brain inflammation. I just know even surgically Dr. Russell Blaylock, they missed neurosurgeons lectured on this topic many times. When he would give patients who he operated on that a craniotomy or whatever brain procedure was, he would give them magnesium, he would confer with his colleagues and these patients the head the Supplemental magnesium post-surgery actually healed much better. So we know magnesium really, really good for any neurological stress. So really good things there magnesium plugs into the Krebs cycle which we talked about for energy. That’s why when you’re eating a whole bunch of sugar without magnesium, you get more depletion. So magnesium is really important for the Krebs cycle and for the energy. I’ll let you hit a couple more, Evan. Go ahead. 

 

Evan Brand: No, that’s huge. That’s exactly what I was gonna hit on is that you, you wouldn’t think of magnesium increasing energy but it can there was one study that I had pulled up here, that was looking at magnesium deficient women and when they exercised, they needed more oxygen to complete low-level activities and they had a higher heart rate compared to when their magnesium levels were higher. So when you look at an athlete, if an athlete has adequate magnesium, hopefully that resting heart rate and then the heart rate under activity doesn’t have to go as high because you’ve got more minerals pumping. And you’re mentioning the nerves, you’re mentioning the muscles, everything worked– working much better. That’s crazy about the surgery there was also vitamin C. I want to say I read something about vitamin C and magnesium being used in an IV either pre or post surgery and that also being a game-changer.

 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, 100%. And, and we also know magnesium is really really important for muscle relaxation. So if you’re exercising a lot and your muscles are tighter or more more more more tonic or tight it’s gonna really help relax the muscles. We also know magnesium is a natural laxative. Now, I always draw a line because we have to figure out is the reason why your bowels aren’t moving. Is it because of SIBO or low stomach acid, or could part of that be just from not having enough magnesium in your system. The magnesium is really, really, really important for that migrating motor complex. It could be that as well, so light, you know having good luck noting magnesium is important 

 

Evan Brand: Yeah, we’ll give people different forms of magnesium to help move the needle with the bowels, but you still got to work backwards, right. You can’t just live on magnesium citrate for example every day, because there’s probably a root cause that’s it’s causing that constipation is really really common. You know, of course we know adrenals are tied into the gut and thyroid tied into the gut and hypothyroidism may slow the bowels down. So there may be 3, 4, 5, 6 factors that we’re looking at to make sure the bowels are moving, but magnesium is definitely a part of the picture. 

 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. Yeah, 100%. Alright, so in general, let’s just kind of dive in any other things magnesium can be helpful for. So we also know I highlighted the big three, right? We talked about what causes these deficiencies, we talked about pesticide, and slash around up and efficiency of the soil, we talked about stress, talked about sugar and guess one more we should highlight, Evan. I think that would be in general and maybe two more, so just having poor digestion. So if we have got permeability issues aka leaky gut and we have low hydrochloric acid and enzyme levels, that could be partly caused by SIBO or H pylori or some type of gut infection. That could easily be driving a lot of deficiency because we know we need good hydrochloric acid levels to be able to ionize our magnesium so we can absorb it. Ionized minerals that basically are making the minerals more absorbable so we can break them down.

 

Evan Brand: Well, how about just age, I mean by the time you’re age 50, age 60, you look at Dr. Wright’s book on stomach acid. I mean, you’re making hardly any stomach acid by that age so we could just say, ‘hey if you’re above age 50, you’re probably magnesium deficient unless you’re supplementing a couple other benefits,I would say headaches’ You know, headaches, even migraine headaches, you can really really improve your symptoms with, with magnesium and then we did mention the sleep I would just say the — what do you call those charley horses in your gaffes? Yeah like cramp or B niculae shoes. Yep, I remember being a kid having those charley horses in my calves. I wish I would have had magnesium oil back then I’m sure it would have helped.

 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, yeah absolutely! So we kind of hit the big major causes and the last cause I had– Oh last one and don’t yet is medications. Medications are a big big driving factor of magnesium deficiency.  So one of the big ones, I call it the vicious cycle and you see this happen when you are prescribed a medication, and that medication creates a certain nutrient deficiency and that nutrient actually helps with the symptoms– that the medication was prescribed with to begin with. So creates a vicious cycle so for instance a lot of diuretics and beta blockers they cause you to excrete out magnesium but magnesium is also really important for relaxing the blood vessels and relaxing the heart. So then you excrete more of that nutrient that actually helps with the heart helps with the blood pressure and the vasculature so it’s actually perpetuating the more need for that medication longer and longer and longer, so it really creates a vicious cycle not the best business model if you’re trying to actually get to the root cause.

 

Evan Brand: Yeah, blood pressure drugs – you mentioned diuretics. You could basically consider blood pressure drugs diuretic, right? That’s kind of the mechanism of them. 

 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We’ll you get a couple right there’s like ace inhibitors which are the.. it’s blocking the angiotensin converting enzyme that helps raise blood pressure. There’s gonna be just like water pills like lisinopril hydrochlorothiazide diuretics, that flush things out. Those are the two big ones they’re arms I think, ARBs– those are the other ones and then there’s beta blockers which basically there’s just calcium ion thing that has to happen in the heart at the sinoatrial and atrial ventricular node where the heart beats and it basically blocks that calcium there which decreases the heart from pumping as hard. But the thing is magnesium actually does that naturally. So you have natural beta blockers in the form of magnesium, but you can see these medications can decrease your internal levels of magnesium and then you need more of the medication to have that physiological effect.

 

Evan Brand: God, yeah. If you’re in the business of making money, create a drug that depletes the nutrient that the heart actually needs to do. A job do its job so then they’re dependent on the heart drug. I mean, it’s just insanity. All right. Let’s get into symptoms a bit so it’s basically the opposite of all the benefits. Right, so we’ve mentioned benefits like relaxation.. okay so lead so the symptom or side effect of magnesium deficiency, could be anxiety, it could be trouble sleeping, it could be leg cramps or restless leg, it could be a blood pressure like we just talked about, you know. Blood pressure issues that are uncontrolled just hypertension in general.

 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. 

 

Evan Brand: What else? What else is on the, the bad things, the symptoms.

 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I mean tremors vertigo which is hard time swallowing nausea, tired, fatigue, anxiety, depression — I mean these are all things that potentially can be there. Sleep issues, epilepsy, asthma, depression, cardiac issues, cardiac pain, PMS, I mean, I see it a lot women that have magnesium deficiency a lot of women that are going into premenstrual symptoms. Guess what they start to crave. They start to crave dark chocolate. Why? Because dark chocolates very high in magnesium, so a lot of women intuitively crave dark chocolate ‘cuz their body knows that there’s certain nutrients in there that will actually help a lot of that cramping. So magnesium is really important for cramping and we can actually increase it during right before a woman starts to menstruate and or during and after to help relax the muscles.

 

Evan Brand: Yeah, just because it’s common to have PMS and cramping doesn’t mean it’s normal. So you like to say, you know, a woman’s menstrual cycle it really just kind of sneak up on you. It should just come and all the sudden. Oh, you’re bleeding there we go as opposed to a week of misery irritability anger, I mean–

 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. I want to just highlight one thing before we move on. Let’s just go over the family of medications, the tend to deplete magnesium. So we have the acid blocking medications, right? Your prilosec, your nexium, your santa, we already talked about the mechanism, why? Because we need enough acid to essentially ionize those minerals so we can absorb it. We have the blood pressure medications, we talked about that whether it’s the water pills or whether it’s the beta blockers or the ACE inhibitors or the ARB medication, we talked about those. So lasix, a lot of people get put on lasix, not good yet. Lasix, that’s a diuretic of digoxin. It’s another one that’s a heart medication that will deplete magnesium certain hormones can, as well birth control pills are known to and this is another vicious cycle. So a lot of women, they’re on birth control pills, maybe an antidepressant, maybe they’re on an acid blocker, you can see how if you’re on a combination of those medications. You are in trouble so various hormones did whether it’s estradiol or estrogen creams. The various oral contraceptives like the ethanol estradiol, those are like a lot of the birth control pills, like the Yasmin or etc, various ethanol estradiol compounds, ADHD medications methylphenidate medication, this is like ritalin concerta medidate adderall and then also various antibiotics. Antibiotics, whether it’s amoxicillin or z-pak levaquin minocycline, these antibiotics can deplete magnesium and then also corticosteroids and corticosteroids have a major effect they increased blood sugar as well. So when you increase blood sugar, that’s gonna also affect the metabolism of magnesium. So with various corticosteroids, whether it’s hydrocortisone cream or prednisone or methaprednisone, these are all gonna be big ones there, and I think it’s a pre.. pretty pretty good way to start. So antacids acid blocking blood pressure medications, hormones, oral contraceptives, ADHD medications, antibiotics and corticosteroids. 

 

Evan Brand: Yeah, let’s take Johnny who can’t pay attention in school. Let’s put him on a t-888 medication, so now he focuses and then used to put it in magnesium. So now, he’s anxious and now the doctor says, ‘well now we need to calm him down, so let’s get him on a benzodiazepine to calm him down in the evening and then we’ll stimulate him in the morning with the ADHD medication’. 

 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah crazy. I mean you can.

 

Evan Brand: Yeah. It doesn’t have to happen this way. I mean, in our case you know we could come in we see something like ADHD, we could throw more magnesium in, we could throw in chlorella and detox nutrients, help deliver help the gut, I mean, we work with so many kids that the teacher is like blown away at the progress. They see and this is all relatively simple stuff, I mean, once you get the root causes, you get the clinical data, you get the proper lab testing, you can see what the heck’s going on. Then you can fix it you don’t have to get the kids on drugs it’s just ridiculous. 

 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, especially boys. Boys tend to have the harder time sitting you know, still for six hours as you get into grade school. So boys tend to get prescribed a lot of these medications. Just you know, it’s easier for them because they tend to have a harder time sitting still and focusing. So be careful if you have a boy, you know you really got to watch out because these medications tend to be what’s prescribed. If they don’t comply, so if you’re in that kind of public school type of apparatus and your child’s not conforming, you got to be careful because this is the the vicious medication cycle that may be prescribed to get your your kid on track. Now obviously, girls are gonna be there too but you’re gonna see just more boys being prescribed these medications. So in general, what are things that we can do so we can obviously make sure we’re consuming nutrient-rich magnesium foods? Now of course, this is gonna be like your leafy green. So of course leafy greens, celery juice in the morning is great, good potassium, good magnesium, you can do seeds, pumpkin seeds are amazing, spinach, Swiss chard, sesame seeds, cashews — so good seeds. Packing your kid a snack with Goods nuts and seeds to go to school is amazing. If we’re gonna give some carbohydrates, you know, we can do squash, we can do sweet potato, these are all great we can do. Various greens, turnip greens, beet grains, these are amazing ways to get extra nutrition in your kid. Also getting a good magnesium supplement. So if we’re on a good stuff that we want to be on, like a magnesium alloy or a magnesium glycinate, so really good way to go and there are other sources like natural calm, which is more of a magnesium citrate. It’s a little bit more cost effective. I’ll use that more for motility purposes, but if we’re trying to enhance mitochondrial function and get mitochondrial levels up or magnesium levels up, we’ll do like a magnesium dimalate or magnesium glycinate or even a magnesium 3 and a 3 and 8 tends to be really good to cross the brain barren. We have a lot of inflammation and brain thought magnesium 3 and it can be great if we’re trying to improve mitochondrial levels and energy and improve mitochondrial levels for magnesium, you know using magnesium to do that we’ll do a diet malate, and then glycinate is really good as well. Just because we’re, but it’s really well absorb glycine and malli are very well absorbed compounds or amino acid. Do the cheaper ones are gonna be citrate, the most cheap is going to be oxide, typically only for bowel motility citrate more for bowel motility, but some absorption and then maximal absorption will be dimalate 3 and 8 and glycinate.

 

Evan Brand: Yeah. I love the 3 and 8. It’s huge. The oxide is garbage if you go to Walmart, you by magnesium it’s probably gonna be oxide, it’s around 4% absorption rate. So let’s say you go to take 100 milligrams, you may give 4 milligrams assuming you even digest it. If it’s a tablet filled with fillers, and corn, and gluten and other garbage, you may not even absorb 4 milligrams, you know. So you’re probably doing more harm than good, if you’re taking just a consumer grade product, you always want to go professional-grade with this stuff because there’s a huge difference. It may say magnesium on the label, but what you’re actually getting is you know far different in a professional grade formula.

 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. 100 percent, 100 percent. 

 

Evan Brand: If you’re not working with a practitioner, you know, seek one out. If you want to work with Justin or me, we’d be happy to help you but if you are working with the practitioner, make sure they’re giving you professional magnesium. I’m a huge fan of supplementing magnesium and not just depending on the diet alone, because it’s tough. I mean, if you look at like pumpkin seeds for example, I want to say it was around like a hundred milligrams for 1/4 of a cup, I mean, and how many pumpkin seeds are you really gonna eat in a day, right? So if you’re doing that and then a sweet potato I think was around like 40 milligrams for an average size sweet potato, so let’s say you’re at 140, you’re still nowhere close to getting that four or five hundred milligrams, right? So I think it’s important to just throw a little extra in the hatch even if you’re just supplementing in, like 1 2 3 400 milligrams a day, to me that’s a good insurance policy. 

 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%, and I would just say let’s kind of go through kind of the RDA. Now, the RDA, I’ve heard it said many times before. RDA stands for rat drugs and assumptions, meaning a lot of the studies are done on rats or animals, or and they’re kind of like a minimum assumptive value. So kind of like take the RDA with the grain of salt and you probably want to have a couple of hundred milligrams of buffer room in there because we want to have enough nutrition for optimal health, not just to prevent symptoms. So in general, explain what party a is people like when do what is he saying, the RDA already has recommended dietary allowances, so this is based off of the data that’s available. Hey, this is how much you need as a, you know, this is how much magnesium he’s taking a day. Okay that’s the general gist now for your typical adult anywhere between 19 to 30 years old male is gonna need 400 milligrams. A female’s underneath 310 milligrams, it goes up slightly as you go above the age of 30, it goes to 424 men, 324 women, and it kind of stays there. You’re actually gonna see a decreased amount during pregnancy, I’m not sure if and when they say that Evan, if the pregnancy is in addition to a typical amount, I’m not sure if they’re meaning an additional. I would always typically go up, so they’re saying during pregnancy and lactation 350 to 310, that’s a drop in what the typical woman would need, so I’m gonna guess that that’s gonna be, you know, we’re gonna do on top of that. We’re gonna do more on top of that or maybe, maybe they just said that to try to be conservative, but I would think to even more important during pregnancy. Yeah I guess there’s an increase if you’re a adult female from 310 to 350 during pregnancy but only forward at 40 milligrams. I don’t know so in general, about you’re looking at 400 I typically recommend 500 milligrams a day of supplemental or at least getting that amount of magnesium, typically we’ll cut that in half and we’ll set them at about 2 to 250 so I like getting about half of it supplemented. That way, it takes a lot of the stress off your back. So if you get 4 to 5 servings of vegetables a day, maybe, maybe a little bit of nuts or seeds you’re good. Some people have allergy issues, right? They have oxalate issues or they have allergies to nuts and seeds, and then supplements are gonna be even more important, but typically, if you’re getting your five or six servings of green today, maybe a handful of nuts, you’re gonna be pretty darn good and again it cuts in half if you’re younger. You’re looking at anywhere between a baby at 75 to a teenager at 250 and it jumps up from age 13 to 14 from 250 to 400, so is a big increase in the amount of magnesium, when as you go from a kid to teenage years and then teenage to adult so big big increases, and I think part of the reason you see ADHD issues or hyperactivity or attention deficit issues is because you have this big metabolic demand increase at age 8 to 9– it doubles and then it doubles again at 13-14, so that’s perfect years for the elementary school and a middle school those magnesium demands go up a lot, so if we don’t have enough supplemental magnesium your kid could be in, you know, deficient and that could drive more of these ADHD medications, you know, obviously sugar gluten dyes preservatives artificial sweeteners. These are all gonna be other mechanisms that are gonna add to that stress bucket, so to speak. 

 

Evan Brand: Yeah, well said. That’s a really interesting thought that we see the change these kids, it’s like, ‘oh when they got the middle school all the sudden they couldn’t pay attention anymore so huh’, well the man went up if diet didn’t change or didn’t improve or supplements weren’t added, now all of a sudden you’re even more deficient and then the symptoms manifest more than they would have before. Super super interesting point man and–

 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’ve noticed kids diets tend to get worse, right, when, when the kids are at home more and they have they’re more under their parents thumb and they haven’t been exposed to a whole bunch of marketing, they’re eating better as they start hanging out with kids that have eat junky food. They want to be part of the in-crowd, they’re eating worse, they’re also exposed more to commercials and being out and about and being just being promoted and propagandized to buy the junk food, food history then you get to more of the junk which we already know creates more functional deficiencies. 

 

Evan Brand: Yep, so if you got a teenager and they just got their license, and they’re running around going to all the fast-food joints with their friends, have them listen to this, you know, we work with a lot of teenagers it’s really fun for me because I’m like ‘hey, look if you can get this diet thing figured out now when you’re 16 as opposed to waiting till you’re 46 and miserable like you’re gonna be in way better shape, way more successful, well your brain is gonna work better, you’ll be smarter than your peers, you’ll get better grades’, I mean, when you when you frame it like that usually they’re more compliant as opposed to mom says you need to eat your vegetables. 

 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%, and it becomes really tough because I get a lot of kids may feel ostracized or they just see their other friends eating so much junk and it’s like they want to feel included, it’s just tough. We have a massive deficiency in education especially in and around the area of health and nutrition, so you have a lot of people that are just walking around clueless and they’re kind of just poisoning their self in a very, you know, kind of slow motion type of way, so it’s easy. The more educated you feel, the more ostracize you may feel, I get that so just do your best to get yourself feeling optimal, get the Kryptonite out of your system, right, kryptonite’s what makes Superman weak, so get the Kryptonite out and then do your best just to connect with people that are on a similar wavelength so you don’t feel like you’re the the high maintenance person. When you, when you want to eat some green vegetables or some some nuts of seeds or healthy dietary supplements, so just try to find people that resonate kind of where you’re at therefore you feel more supported and what you’re doing. 

 

Evan Brand: Good advice! Yeah, I was always like the the black sheep, you know, when I was working in offices eating, can you know what I consider my conventional diet like a bison steak and peas, and buttered people would get pizza and sandwiches for lunch, you want to say what it is like, no I don’t so if you’re getting judged for your food choices, and you’re eating good stuff then you just need to change your circle. That’s good advice.

 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. Awesome, was there anything else you want to chat about here, Evan? I’m gonna put some of the references that we use for this article up with that RDA screenshot up there as well so everyone can see it and look at it. We’ll put it in the transcription page so if you guys are listening to this on our podcast or a YouTube channel, click below and look for that transcription then you guys can get more of this information there as well. 

 

Evan Brand: I would just add, this is one, you know, we like to zoom out a lot and look at the big picture, but this is one example where I think it’s really important to zoom in and hyper focus on magnesium, because it does so many things. There’s so many enzymatic processes and react actions and things that are happening. Its magnesium is such a catalyst for brain chemistry and neurotransmitters as you mentioned, mitochondria, I mean there’s magnesium dabbles in every part of your body, so I think this is one example where you have to zoom in a bit. We often like that make fun of things when people who zoom too far in and they miss the big picture, but this is where you really need that microscope. You got to focus on this issue because it can change your life and you can measure this too, so you can look at the red blood cell magnesium levels on blood work and there’s other ways you can look at magnesium as well. If you want help, you’ve got issues, if it’s just anxiety it could be something as simple as magnesium, it could be gut infections, I mean, there could be mold issues. I mean, there’s a ton of other things going on, so if you do have some of the symptoms we discussed like blood pressure problems, you’re facing being put on medication, etc, you know reach out the just under me we’d love to help you. You can find Justin’s info in his calendar link, check his availability, that’s at his site, justinhealth.com and you can work online around in the world. And my site’s evanbrand.com. We love helping people we’re very honored and blessed to be in the position we are. So thank you all for tuning in.

 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent! Also, we did a whole thing on flow therapy a few weeks ago, and we talked about the magnesium sulfate. Getting magnesium sulfate sulfate to the epsom salts that are gonna be in a flow tank or magnesium sulfate through epsom salts you put in your standard bath, that’s gonna be an amazing way to get more magnesium especially if you have gut issues. Because when you put it in the water like that, you just have your whole surface area to absorb it, right? So you’re gonna have a ton of absorption, some questions came in, how much? I’m not sure. There’s probably some studies on that but that’s probably gonna increase your absorption the most, and I think if you’re having a long hard stressful day at work instead of coming home and drinking that alcohol, just go take a salt bath or head over to your local flow tank business and get some exposure to magnesium via transdermal to the skin. 

 

Evan Brand: It would be cool to do a, you know, but it’s… it’s hard, right, because there’s other variables like, you know, what if that person started doing like a green juice everyday, and they got more my knees in that way. But let’s just say if no other variables change, they’d be cool to take a pre blood sample for the intracellular magnesium. Have someone float, you know, once or twice a week for like six weeks and then retest and see what they did. I guarantee you’d see pretty significant improve minutes, I mean, you’re talking 800 pounds usually of Epsom salt. That’s insane. 

 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly, and then last thing is testing for magnesium so you have your typical magnesium serum which will be on like a comprehensive metabolic profile magnesium serum we went above – but magnesium serum that looks at like imagine your suit in a pool, right, and you’re in a little inner tube, right, right. And then you have the water, right, the water is the serum so think of magnesium serum is testing the magnesium in the water, right, and then magnesium red blood cell magnesium is actually looking what’s in the inner tube, right, so the cell is the inner tube, the serum is the blood, so serum, it’s okay, but we want to see what’s in the inner tube. So red blood cell magnesium’s ideal, we want that greater than 5, 5 or greater and we typically can also use other tests like a nutri eval, or a spectra cell, which is kind of a lymphocyte stimulation test where we can get another intracellular, intracellular window into what those nutrient levels are at, but those kind of your general gist in regards to magnesium and how to test for it. Anything else you want to say about testing, Evan?

 

Evan Brand: I think you covered it. Did, were there any other questions related, I didn’t have those pulled up.

 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I would just say most we kind of hid a lot of them already. I would say if you’re under more stress, you can’t go wrong taking more magnesium. Magnesium helps facilitate GABA, which helps kind of turn on the parasympathetic nervous system and relaxes you. Some people, if you get too relaxed with magnesium, taking it more at night can be better because then you’re it’s you know you’re gonna go to sleep. So it’s great. So if it’s too sedating for you, take it more at night after work kind of when you’re doing your wind-down routine. It’s a great way to do it, I think, we pretty much hit all on a maj, a lot of major things. B6 is another important cofactor we like with magnesium, because it helps with neurotransmitter synthesis so B6 is really good typically when people are stressed, B vitamins are equally depleted with magnesium because of just how stress works. Magnesium and B vitamins are part of the Krebs and they’re gonna get burnt up when you’re stressed so it’s very possible that you need to be taking a good B complex along with your magnesium just because the stress may be affecting all of those different parts of the metabolic system.

 

Evan Brand: Good call, good call. All right, I just wrap it up that would, I mean, I mentioned the website, so justinhealth.com, you want to reach out to Justin. Evanbrand.com is my website. And we’ll be back next Monday. I’m sure you’re gonna do something in between now and then, but I’ll be back Monday with you. 

 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent. If you guys like it, thumbs up, hit the subscribe button, hit the bell, give us a share, we love it if you’re enjoying this. Think about friends or family that could benefit as well, and then also put your comments down below. Love to hear what your comments are. This helps guide us in choosing future topics that we want to chat about, so we really want your input. Thanks to everyone. Have a phenomenal day. Take care Evan. See you, bye bye.

Evan Brand: Bye.


References:

https://www.evanbrand.com/

https://justinhealth.com/

Audio Podcast:  

http://justinhealth.libsyn.com/types-of-magnesium-and-their-benefits-podcast-236

Low Body Temperature! – Dr. J Podcast # 156

Dr. Justin Marchegiani and Evan Brand engage in a very informative discussion about low body temperature. Learn how different potential stressors like thyroid issues, adrenal issues, gut health, autoimmune conditions, nutrition and low calories cause low body temperature. Find out about the role of micronutrients in thyroid hormone conversion and be aware of the medications that have a negative impact on mitochondrial function.

Gain information about the different foods, including modifications in macronutrients, and various supplements, which will improve your health and prevent different stressors that are possibly causing low body temperature.

In this episode, we cover: low body temperature

03:27   Thyroid issues

07:05   Beneficial Nutrients

14:14   Toxins and Medications

22:51   Food and Supplements

33:46   Calorie Intake

 

 

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Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And we are live here on YouTube. It’s Dr. J in the house. Evan, my man, how are you doing brother?

Evan Brand: Hey man, happy Monday! We’re talking all fair about that shooting this morning so my mom, she worked right next door last night at the Hotel Luxor which was uh— right next door to that shooting event in Vegas. So I called her this morning and she’s safe and sound and she got released, so she’s home, hopefully sleeping. I’m sure she’s extremely adrenally stressed at this point, but hopefully she’s resting and settling down from all that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Lots of empathy for all the people out there going through that. It must be just incredibly stressful.

Evan Brand: It’s insane.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s just so difficult. So wishing everyone, you know, speedy recovery from that. That is just so difficult and man, everyone’s adrenals are revved up from that, right?

Evan Brand: I know.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So let’s go into some stuff here where people, we would get— put some information out there about improving everyone’s health.

Evan Brand: Yes.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh—and just continue to empower more people. So let’s dig in, brother.

Evan Brand: Yes. Yes, so you and I want to chat about low body temperature, which is something that so many people have. I’ve had it in the winter for a long time. I’m hoping that since I work so much, my gut and my adrenals that I don’t have it this winter but cold hands, cold feet you know that had been something that I mentioned going on with me for—for several years. I know there’s a lot of different causes that you and I wanted to go through. So how should we open this thing? Should we talk about hormones, thyroid, how do you want to lay the groundwork?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, we look at body temperature. Temperature is probably one of the best indicators of your metabolism, right? Because the more energy you have, typically the— the better your temperature is. And so typically, you’re gonna have symptoms of cold temperature which are gonna be cold hands, cold feet those kind of things. Also, fatigue, but now there’s also objective ways that we can test your temperature. You know, with the thermometer, obviously. We can do axillary temperature, which is armpit. 97.8 to 98.2 is—is Fahrenheit is a pretty good range to be in. Or 98.2 to 98.6 orally. And so you can kind of assess your temperature. You can do it in the morning and then you can also do it in the afternoon as well. Kinda do it just for before eating. That gives you a pretty good indication but if your metabolism is low and your temperature is low, it could be caused by an interplay of different things. We’ll go into it. It could be thyroid issues. It could be adrenal issues. It could be gut issues. It could be nutrient issues. It could be mitochondrial issues. So all of these things are potential stressors that could be driving that problem.

Evan Brand: I’d say number one is probably thyroid issues. Wouldn’t you suspect because so many people we talk with they have adrenal issues with them on top of that there is a thyroid problem. Like maybe elevated reverse T3, whether you’ve got that blank bullet going on or they just got a low free T3 or like you and I’ve chatted about with adrenals, you’ve got the conversion process that happens where you take the inactive T4 hormone, you convert that to active T3.That conversion process gets messed up if you’ve got chronic stress. And chronic stress as you mentioned, could be gut infections, it could be emotional stress, could be chemical, heavy metals. It could be circadian rhythm stress if you’re working third shift, for example. That could be enough to change this whole cascade. Wouldn’t you say?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, yeah. Hundred percent. I mean, again, all of those things can be intimately connected. The first we look at is thyroid because thyroid hormone has a major effect on our metabolism. And our metabolism is the sum of all chemical reactions in the body. And our metabolism is pH driven, right? So if our pH becomes too alkaline or too acidic, like you know blood pH, which exists in a very fine-tune range, right around 7.35+ or -1/10 of point there. And if that pH shifts up or down, that can affect how all of our enzymes in our bodywork. So that can affect temperature and there’s things like—uh like a diabetic coma, right? Where blood sugar can go to he— or too low typically. If someone’s type I dependent and they don’t have insulin, they don’t get sugar into their cell, which can create ketoacidosis. And that can really, really drop that pH and that put you into a coma. So our pH is very driven and has a major effect on our metabolism, so, totally.

Evan Brand: So let’s hit on—let’s hit on the thyroid peace. Now autoimmunity is something we talk about so much. Would you say a common symptom of someone with Hashimoto’s, for example, could be low body temperature or possibly even a fluctuating. Maybe their low body temperature if they’re a bit underperforming but then couldn’t they just bounce right back and get actually hot if they bump into hyperthyroid. If they’re in the Hashimoto’s state, and things are still fluctuating.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah. So, if you’re having Hashimoto’s and your immune systems constantly attacking your thyroid, your thyroid hormone can spill.

Evan Brand: Right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Coz every time it’s attacked, hormone spills out. Eventually those follicles run dry and you’re not gonna quite have that hyper kind of symptoms. So in an acute attack, hyper symptoms may be increased temperature are common, right? You can have like PVC’s periventricular contractions. Uh—you can have, you know, kinda this—kinda heart palpitations. Your heart’s kinda beating erratic and hard, uh—anxiety, night sweats, irritability. These are all hyper thyroid symptoms. You feel warming, right? You feel excessive warmth or temperature. But then, in a chronic state, that will eventually lead to a hypothyroid kind of environment, where your body temperature just gets very low.

Evan Brand: So someone has had Hashimoto’s for quite some time, let’s say there’s been a pretty significant tissue destruction, you would say someone will not end up being hyper long-term with Hashimoto’s. It’d probably be hypo long-term.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I mean you can—hyper feels very similar. Hyperthyroid Grave’s feels very similar to a hypothyroid autoimmune attack. The difference is with hyper, typically, there’s a specific antibodies or immunoglobulin compounds that come back. So with Grave’s, you’re seeing TSI immunoglobulins or you’re seeing thyroid TSH receptor site antibodies. So that’s what’s typically common in Grave’s. And when those things are high, it’s accelerating the thyroid hormone to produce excessive amounts of thyroid hormone. So there’s like a production stimulation where with the autoimmune attack, from like thyroglobulin antibodies or TPO antibodies is it’s more the spilling of a thyroid hormone out of the thyroid. It’s spilling out where the antibody attack from Grave’s, it’s stimulating the thyroid to produce more.

Evan Brand: Exactly.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: With Hashimoto’s, you’re not getting the stimulation. You’re more or less getting that spilling effect, which eventually, you know, will run dry.

Evan Brand: Got it. Got it.  Okay. So we hit the autoimmune piece. What else would go on thyroid-wise that will be an issue with temperature regulation?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Well, again, there’s also certain nutrients that have a major effect on thyroid uh—conversions. So we know things like selenium are super important for thyroid conversion. So someone may have decent thyroid levels from a T4 perspective, uh— but they may not have that activation, right? They may not have that conversion uhm— that’s so important.

Evan Brand: So could it just be the lack of trace nutrients, trace mineral selenium, zinc— things like that activators.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So here, we are live on Facebook now, too with the low body temperature podcast. So getting back onto our common thread. Yeah, micronutrients like selenium are gonna be important for thyroid conversion. It’s a five—the enzyme that converts T4 to T3 inactive thyroid hormone to active thyroid hormone is a 5 deiodinase enzyme. It’s also important with glutathione and detoxification. So, yeah, that’s totally uh— important micronutrient that will affect thyroid activations. So when we look at thyroid function, we’re looking at are there blood sugar fluctuations? Are you eating grains or foods that are gonna cause that thyroid antibody attack that could cause the hormones to spill out and eventually deplete the hormones? Your thyroid follicles carry about four months of thyroid hormone. So again, if you have a chronic Hashimoto attack, where the thyroid hormone’s spilling out faster than you can synthesize and make more, then you’re going to definitely get to that depletion state where you’re gonna go hypo from a temperature standpoint. You’re gonna go almost hypothermic. That temperature will drop below that 97.8 – 98.2 armpit temperature wise or 98.2 to 98.6 and I’ll put a handout down below to my uh— metabolic temperature handout. So people can actually track their temperatures and it’s basically a graph of three different lines. And then the top brackets where you want your temperature to be through which ranges 97.8 – 98.6 We want to be checking off daily that your temps are in this bracket not the bottom or the very bottom.

Evan Brand: Got it. Okay. So what else? Should we talk about the nutrients next?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Should we talk about the nutrients, right? Vitamin A, we talked about uh— zinc, copper, selenium, magnesium very important nutrients for thyroid conversion. Now if you’re eating a whole food diet, you’re gonna be typically pretty good. If you’re having enough HCl and enzymes, you’re gonna be good as well because we need those type of compounds to be able to ionize the minerals. So it’s the diet component. It’s making sure we have the ability to break down the foods in our diet that are nutrient dense. Uhm— number three is making sure our stress response is okay because stress hormones will affect thyroid conversion. Cortisol being hyper— very high— will affect thyroid T4 to T3 conversion that inactive to active thyroid hormone. Also, if cortisol is too lo from chronic stress. So there’s this, kinda Goldilocks effect that we see here with thyroid hormone kinda need it to be not too high, but not too low to have optimal conversion. Does that makes sense?

Evan Brand: Yeah. It does. Well said. Let me mention about the gut, too, coz you just hit on the fact that you’ve got to have absorption. So even if the diet’s good, which many people listening to us, they probably already dialed in like a Paleo template but they could still have this symptom. You may want to check for infections. Coz like Justin and I talk about almost every week at some level, there could be an H. pylori, bacteria, yeast, fungus, something going on in the gut that’s stealing your nutrients or preventing you from optimally digesting. And then that issue is compounded, if you’ve been taking any type of anti-acid where acid blocking medication something simple as Tom’s or something more strong like a prior was it Prilosec or Zantac.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. So, yeah. Totally.

Evan Brand: Keep that in mind. If you’re looking at your medication list and that includes acid blockers and you have cold body temperatures, it’s probably cause you’re not digesting your foods therefore the thyroid is not getting fed the nutrients it needs.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Totally. And also a lot of medications could affect your mitochondria. Just Google antibiotics and mitochondrial function, you’ll find that antibiotics can negatively impact mitochondrial function. And you’ll also find that other medications can impact the mitochondria. And the mitochondria is like the little powerhouse of your cell where it generates a lot of ATP, which is that currency of energy in which your body runs. So that’s really important and also an important nutrient call carnitine really helps that mitochondria utilize fat for energy, generate ATP out of that good fat, you know, it’s called uh—beta oxidation where you’re generating energy from fat. And carnitine is an important nutrient primarily made from methionine and lysine. Now, I did a video call why vegan and vegetarian diets can make you fat? Now—no—don’t make you fat. But you know, why they the can—meaning it’s not a hundred percent. But if you’re insulin resistant and you’re doing it the wrong way, where you’re emphasizing maybe too much carbohydrates, not enough protein and more gut irritating foods, yeah, it can definitely predispose people that have an inflamed guts and work more on the insulin resistance side to gain weight. And one of the big things is that when you eat certain animal rich amino acids, there are some plant ones as well, you activate the cells in the brain that are called—hold on, one __my notes—uh—tenocytes. And these tenocytes are receptor sites in the brain in the third ventricle area of the brain. And there’s a direct blood flow between them and the hypothalamus. These tenocytes, one, they sense satiety but the big thing that senses satiety for them is arginine and lysine which are really high in animal-based foods. So these amino acids really get that sense of satiation so that means you’re one, gonna have appetite regulation. Coz when you actually start feeling full, you tend to not eat all the crap, right?

Evan Brand: Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So the more you can keep your cravings in check, the more you eat healthier foods because you got control over your biochemistry. You’re not reacting. You’re acting based on what you know you need to be healthy. But those amino acids are primarily gonna be higher in animal-based foods especially lysine as well.

Evan Brand: Yeah. Well said.  So in a roundabout way, if you are a vegetarian or a vegan and you’ve got low body temperature, it could just be something as simple as a carnitine deficiency. I mean you could probably get a little bit in beans maybe—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  A little bit in beans, a little bit in almonds, a little bit in plums and avocados, for sure.

Evan Brand: But even then, once we talked like—we talked all the time, digestion of those foods is probably not very good and the concentration of those is gonna be much less as opposed to a grass-fed beef.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. In my video, I talked about, you know, if you are a smart vegan where you’re not emphasizing a lot of the grains, you’re doing safer starches, you’re getting lots of fats from avocado, olive oil, coconut oil, you’re supplementing DHEA in the form of algae, right? And if you’re getting B12 uh—supplementation and you’re getting a good multi- in there and you’re getting lots of— you’re getting some protein supplementation in there, maybe from pea or hemp, right? You may be okay on a vegan-vegetarian diet, but it’s just— it’s still less than optimal just because of the fact that you gotta go through such extreme lengths to get high-quality protein sources without all the carbohydrate. Coz vegetarian-vegan diet’s typically are packed with 60 to 80% carbohydrates for that 20 to 25% of protein you get.

Evan Brand: Yup.  Well said. You hit on the mitochondria, too. We should take  that a bit further and talk about more toxins. You hit on antibiotics, some mitochondrial issues there. Makes perfect sense. We work with people all the time where they say, “Oh Justin or Evan, as soon as I took a round of antibiotics, all of a sudden things went bad.” And it could be temperature –temperature issues, it could be sleep problems, it could be gut issues, digestive problems. And so also with mitochondrial issues, we’ve got toxins. So if you’re not using 100% organic, that’s an issue because glyphosate and these other pesticides and herbicides, fungicides and insecticides— they all compound with each other. So it’s not that one chemical by itself will kill you, but if you get a little bit of glyphosate from your non-organic berries, you combine that with a little bit of conventional vegetables coz you did a salad at a restaurant, you combine that with in antibiotics that you’re getting from meat. If it’s not labeled “no antibiotics” you stock all those upon each other, you’ve got some bad mitochondrial problems here that you need to fix. And we can measure the—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. The enzymes that are needed to help move those gears that  kinda crank around that mitochondrial Krebs cycle and then flow in so the beta oxidation process. Uhm— you need certain nutrients. You need B vitamins, you need magnesium, you need zinc, the healthy levels of amino acids. You also don’t need all the toxins— the aluminum, the pesticides, the glyphosate. So those things can kinda gunk up the gears of that metabolic machinery. So it’s not only what those gears need to keep it lubricated, but what it is we don’t need to put in that will prevent those gears moving. So it’s a combination of avoiding certain things, right? And again, the medications are a double-edged sword. I’m not saying don’t use them. I’m saying just really make sure they’re— they are prescribed specifically for what you need. And it’s the last case kind of thing with antibiotics. We really want to go to herbs and botanical nutrients over antibiotics. They may have a time or place, but we want to use it only when we’ve exhausted other options.

Evan Brand: Yeah. Well said. And you and I were talking off air, we can quantify a lot of this stuff, too. So you’re talking about measuring your temperature. We can quantify what’s going on in the gut, right? We can test the gut, we can test the thyroid with—with blood using functional reference ranges and using functional numbers that conventional doctors don’t use. They’re only going to detect disease. We’re going to detect the issues before disease occurs. We’re gonna look into the gut so we could test you for infections. We could test the adrenals, look at your free cortisol rhythm so the uh— HPA axis, the hypothalamus, pituitary adrenal axis, you hear us talk about, you know, that is a factor in all of this. If your brain is not connecting the signal to the adrenals and adrenal to the thyroid, that whole system gets often chronic stress. And it’s up to us to figure out when we talk about stress what’s in that bucket. Is it just your job, your bad boss, your relationship, the divorce you’re going through? Is it that stuff only or is that stuff plus chemicals in the diet, plus nutrient deficiencies, plus infections, plus not having enough quality meat in the diet.  You see how these things can all add up.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. And just to kinda look at the thyroid component again, there’s dysregulation up top where the TSH is either high extreme, higher extreme, low. Now it can be extremely low because you’re on thyroid hormone and the body needs more thyroid hormone. The body is sense— sensing more thyroid hormone in the brain, but there’s less than the actual tissues. So that you’re keeping the thyroid hormone higher, but that’s keeping the TSH low. That’s step one. The TSH may be low because of HPAT access dysregulation. That hypothalamus pituitary and that adrenal thyroid axis. There’s some kinda short-circuits happening in there because of the stress— the emotional stress, because of the physical stress, because of the chemical stressors. And we have to address those while we support the nutrients to get this hardwire back on track. We can also have low T4 levels. Coz if T4 is low, we’re gonna have low T3 over here. So we got to make sure the nutrients for T4 in there like I mentioned before the vitamin A, the zinc , the copper, magnesium, selenium, uhm— amino acids, tyrosine and potentially iodine. As long as we know that there’s not uh— autoimmune attack that’s the lease active going on. And then number three, after that, we let see how the T4 to T3 conversion is. If T4 is good, how does T3 conversion look? Is it this big drop off? Or also is there a very high amount of reverse T3 because of that stress? All those can make a big difference. And then one person ask here—James asks, “Well, is hypothyroid and hyperthyroid hypo and hyper kind of the same for treatment?” Yes and no. With hyperthyroid from a TSI thyroid stimulating immunoglobulin or TSH receptor antibody attack, we’re more concerned about coz it tends to be more chronically high which can increase the chance of a thyroid storm and then potentially a stroke. So we take that very seriously. We refer that patient out to their medical doctor uh—for monitoring. We don’t want—we wanna make sure there’s not a stroke going on. But typically, the treatment will be, you know, PTU. Uhm—basically  uh—propylthiouracil or methimazole. Things to basically block iodine uptake to make thyroid hormone. Or though— you know, typically, go to a thyroid radioactive thyroid kind of ablation or even a thyroidectomy. I’ve had patients where we’ve been able to avoid those because we give nutrients to help modulate the thyroid response and modulate the autoimmune response like carnitine, like blue flag, like lemon balm, melissa uhm—into certain adaptogens. They could also help kinda dampen that response. There are some protocols that even show higher amounts of iodine can block that sodium uhm— iodine’s import that transfers iodine into the thyroid. So there’s a couple of different protocols you can use to help. And of course, all of the diet and lifestyle things are the same. But we take the Grave’s autoimmune attack a little bit more seriously just because of the repercussions of it not being treated appropriately, what will happen, we really want to sidestep those.

Evan Brand: Yup. Well said. So get the TPO antibodies checked. Get your eTG antibodies checked, you talk about the TSI. Now, have you seen where TPO TG would be high at the same time as TSI? Where it’s gonna look like Hashimoto’s and Grave’s at the same time?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It could. I’ve seen it before.  Yeah. It definitely can. So get—we’re  gonna really get patients on an autoimmune protocol to help lower any autoimmune attack from the food, from the gluten, from the leaky gut. And we’ll also work on blood sugar stability coz high and low blood sugar fluctuations have a major effect on the immune system.

Evan Brand: Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Now another person asked here, the reason why you know I’m such a huge fan of how we do our podcast is coz it’s literally on the go and we’re infusing questions from people on YouTube here right into the conversations. So it’s like—remember those books you read when you’re like a kid and you read it and it’s like, “Oh, if you want the character to do this, turn to this page. If you want the character to do this, turn to this page.”  You can totally change how the book goes.

Evan Brand: Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, it’s kind how our podcast are. So interjecting here uhm—, Gerald asked, “What about T3? How does T3 work?”  Well number one, T3 can just help support low T3 levels. And if there’s some kind of conversion issue, that can kinda biased time to fix the conversion aspect, number one. Number two, giving that T3 in the Wilson protocol uhm— that can have some effect on clearing out the receptor sites. So that now the T3 works better and binds better uhm— in the future. You can do that by starting low and then tapering up, holding it and then tapering it back down. In the Wilson protocol, Dr. Dennis Wilson does that with time-released T3. But we do a glandular’s in it. That can still be helpful as well. We’re using that as a way of clearing out the receptor site but were also not, you know, thinking that that’s gonna be the only issue. We’re also banking that there’s other things that we’re gonna be fixing that will allow it to be a long-term solution, right?

Evan Brand: Got it. So you’re saying the thyroid glandular’s can be used for low—a low  T3 situation.  That’s the fix that’s going to get you better enough to keep moving the needle in other departments.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Correct. Like in my line, we have Thyro Balance which is a—a really glandular uhm—nutrient thyroid support from a glandular perspective. And then we have that we have Thyro Replete which is nutrients for the conversion. So there’s some herbs that help with conversion like coleus forskohlii and ginseng and then we have the nutrients for conversion that I mentioned—the vitamin A, magnesium, copper, zincs, selenium—all of those—and tyrosine’s. We wanna make sure all those are in there. Uhm so we hit it from all angles. I mean if we knew exactly what that missing like nutrient component was, we could hit it more practically. But it’s too difficult to do that.

Evan Brand: Right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You’re better off using multiple methods to hit it. That way the patient can get better faster.

Evan Brand: Agreed. And you mention the adaptogens. I’m so glad you did. We use those all the time. I take them every day in some shape or form, whether it’s ashwaganda, holy basil, shoshandra. There are so many options and people ask, “Well, can I just take a bunch of adaptogens and fix myself?” Uhm— it doesn’t work like that. You just want to use them as one piece of your toolbox. You still want to be getting to the root cause. So adaptogens are life-changing but if there’s root causes, you can take all the adaptogens in the world and it won’t fix you.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’m gonna take my ashwaganda right now—

Evan Brand: Perfect.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: A little bit of immune support. But I mean, like yeah, if you’re doing okay and you’re like, “Hey, Dr. J and Evan talked about some ashwaganda and some of these nutrients. I want to try it out.” Fine, go ahead.  But if you’re actively having issues that are you know, the symptoms that we mention here whether it’s on the hyper or hypo side, you really want to get someone on board to help guide you because it’s never just one magic bullet. It is—it’s a whole bunch of things that we’re doing together. And the more chronic it is, the more you have a you know, that momentum working against you. You got overcome that inertia to stop that— that snowball effect and start pushing it back uphill. So, yeah, if you’re in pretty good shape, fine you know just try some of these things. But if you’re in not so good shape, you want to reach out, for sure.

Evan Brand: Yep. Cool. Oh, we got time for one more question. Uh James said, “It’s not a thyroid question.” He’s taking an antibiotic for root canal this week. “Will this affect the result of organic acids test and stool test if he collects the samples while antibiotics are still in the system?”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I mean if we’re doing some of the genetic base testing, it shouldn’t have an effect on it. If we’re doing a stool base to antigen-based testing, then it would.

Evan Brand: Right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So you should be okay but we’re doing the G.I. map which is you know, what my go-to is. It should be okay according to the lab. I try to avoid it— doing it. So I would say in a perfect world, if it’s not gonna delay your treatment, I would say get to the antibiotics give it like a day or two to let it wash out and then do it. But if uhm— timing doesn’t work out, just do it, get done.

Evan Brand: I would also look at Mercola root canals and read about those. I mean maybe you’re too far down the rabbit hole and you can’t avoid the root canal. But you know there are some other options you may have available if you’ve got a good biological Dennis maybe will sit down with you and say, “Okay, root canal’s option A but maybe there’s a option B C you could look at too because we’ve had a lot of people to come to us with infected root canals and maybe Jessica can speak on this a bit. But I’ve seen it as a big needle mover for people.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. There’s a book by Ramiel Nagel that talks all about root canals. It is highly recommended. You take a look at it. Uh— fat-soluble nutrients, vitamin A, vitamin K are very helpful. Uh—oil pulling that kinda help extract any toxins that may be in there and you don’t want a root canal you want to get the tooth pulled out. Uhm— you want to get an implant put in using biologically appropriate material. You don’t want the gangrenous tissue still in the system without the blood flow. And the immune response to be able to get it is just a harboring place for a whole bunch of bacteria and viruses to hang out.

Evan Brand: Right. Yeah. Well said. So James, look into that. Maybe it’s not too late. Uh—hopefully, you’ve got some other options you can pursue it’d be much— much safer and much healthier in the long term. That way, you don’t have a hidden dental infection. There’s a guy named, Simon Yu that you and I should reach out and interview. He’s over in St. Louis he talks a lot about hidden dental infections. I think that’d be a good show.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay. Absolutely. Hundred percent. So couple of things we wanna talk about. Oh, also carbohydrate, I think is important. Again, my bias is towards a lower carbohydrate template—Paleo template. And again, I hate the word “diet” because it assumes something is temporary and it assumes that it is fixed; where a template gives us flexibility and modification and may change day to day. It may change uh—meal to meal. I tend to be very lower carbohydrate my first two meals of the day and then after that, I may increase in carbohydrate at nights uhm—you know a bit of the starchy based. So I’m very strict during the day. It’s high-quality. It’s— set—it’s 60 to 70% fats, the only carbohydrates are vegetables and then good proteins and then I go higher at night. On the carbohydrates side, maybe a little bit of sweet potatoes and some butter and cinnamon or maybe I have a—some dark chocolate or have couple more berries than I normally would. So there’s that component. So I always go lower carbohydrate to start because so many people are insulin resistant just because of the fact that we eat too much carbohydrate and were inflamed. So I always go lower carbohydrate to start and then typically, patient will do be better and will feel better because insulin resistance can affect T4 to T3 thyroid conversion, which can cause lower temperature. Now, in the double edge side of the fence, if people go too low insulin, they may also get poor thyroid conversion as well. So just like I mentioned cortisol has a major effect on thyroid conversion. Well, guess what? Insulin has a major effect on thyroid conversion. Type I diabetics— guess what? With low insulin levels coz of the autoimmune attack to the beta cells of the pancreas, they have low body temperature. So if you go too low carbohydrate, and this is for certain individuals not everyone, I know people are gonna be like, “But I’m low carbohydrate and I felt great and it reverse my low temperature.” I get it. Again, there are exceptions to every rule. There are tall Chinese people that play basketball even though they are more shorter in the population. There are exceptions to everything, okay? We got to get that in. So yes, there are some people that a low carbohydrate diet, the majority I would say would help partly because our consumption of refined carbohydrate and sugar is higher, but there are some people when they’re chronically load, they may increase that carbohydrate just a bit. And that ups the insulin a little bit which then helps that thyroid conversion. They’re like, “ Dude, my hair started to grow back better, my temperature’s better, my energy is better.” Boom! You at least now figure it out for you. So exceptions to every rule, figure it out. And uhm—if you feel great going low-carb, great, keep it there, hang out. But if you start getting some of those hypo temperature symptoms, then we’ll just ratcheted up a little bit.  And I primarily ratcheted up starting at night.

Evan Brand: Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: They’ll still get the benefit of keeping it lower carb during the day.

Evan Brand: Well said. I mean that’s me in a nutshell. I went very, very, very low-carb ketogenic, I guarantee. I was probably ketogenic most of the time and then I started to get cold and so I added in some starch with dinner and all of a sudden my body temperature’s perfect now. I feel good. So uh—if I go too low-carb again, it may come back or if there’s a huge piece of stress on my plate, the low body temperature may come back. But for now, I’ve been able to reverse this and been able to clear out all the infections with your help in terms of protocol a couple of years ago getting rid of all my gut bugs, plus supporting adrenals, getting the diet dialed in, getting my sleep improved, blacking out my room. All of those things are still important. So I hope this has been helpful. I gotta run. You’ve gotta run, too. Uhm—or are there any last questions that we could answer? I closed out the chat window. Uh there’s just one thing I want to say is it’s not about being higher carb or lower carb, have a –have a foundational template which you— which you go back to and then you can customize it. And then if you increase carbs, you can still get some of the benefits by having that first 20 hours of your meals relatively lower carb, higher fat, moderate protein and those last four hours you pop up a little bit and so you can still get some of those benefits. If you’re like, “Oh, I feel better with higher carbs.” You can still get the benefits of the first 20 hours of your day kinda in that ketogenic state and then pop up the carbohydrates later. So it’s not an either or thing. We can kinda straddle the fence but we want to customize it. I don’t give a crap if—if low-carb is your missing link and being low-carb all the time helps you, that’s what we’re gonna do. If being low-carb and a little more high carbohydrate helps you out, I don’t care. I’m all about the results and not about what tool I have to use to get the job done.

Evan Brand: Yup. Well said. For me that looks like the breakfast like a pastured sausage, maybe a handful of macadamias, maybe a handful of organic blueberries. Lunch—I  probably do some leftover steak and veggies like a big thing of broccoli with some butter. Dinner— that’s when I may do some type of pastured meat, a little bit of some veggies and then starch, so it could be a medium-size baked sweet potato, butter, cinnamon. That’s all it takes and I feel good. So just to kind of give people an idea what is that look like. That’s what it looks like.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. That’s great. And a couple of questions here. Uh— Stephanie talks about menopausal women with lower estrogen and a low estradiol vaginal tablets. Well, this is interesting because typically low estrogen can cause hot flashes. And why does that cause hot flashes? Because typically the FSH and the LH starts to rise in the pituitary which is that signaling hormone trying to yell to the ovaries to make more progesterone and estrogen. So when LH and FSH primarily FSH goes high, that can create some vasodilation effects and create the hot flashes. So by giving a little bit of thyroid—giving a little bit of uhm— female hormone support, we can drop down that FSH then we can also modulate the receptor sites with some herbs as well to help with how flashes. Whether we use maca, or  we use dong quia, or black cohosh or raspberry root, or shepherds purse. There’s different nutrients or herbs we can do to help modulate that. So again, you could still have hypo, low thyroid issues, but have menopausal issues because of the low estrogens, which could drive the hot flashes up. So it’s kind of a conundrum. The hot flashes may—may overshadow this low thyroid thing over here. So as we get the female hormones fixed, you may notice the low thyroid comes back later on because it’s just not a secondary issue and the primary issue is the menopause. Once that’s ruled out, now this one comes to the surface.

Evan Brand: Got it. Well said.  We should probably do a whole show just on low estrogen if we haven’t.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think that’d be great. I mean, I see estrogen dominance is a big problem.

Evan Brand: Right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Where estrogen –the ratio of estrogen is higher than progesterone, right? So progesterone should be like this 25 to 125 times more than estrogen. But if that ratio starts to creep up where estrogen gets higher, that’s estrogen dominance. The problem is a lot of people, though, where that ratio—they’re estrogen dominant, progesterone’s slow but estrogen is also low. So they get this estrogen dominant, but also low estrogen sums at the same time. So it’s kinda like this conundrum. It’s like this little tug of war that’s happening there.

Evan Brand: Wow. Put it on this to do list. It sounds like it’s gonna be a fun one for us to dive into more. And I’ve probably got some stuff to learn from you on that topic as well.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think it’s great. Well any last questions, comments, or concerns, Evan?

Evan Brand: No. I think this has been good. People, you got to get the testing run because if you don’t test, you’ve guessed. So if you’re trying to figure this out on your own, even if you’re not working with Justin or myself, then get the test run. Find a functional medicine practitioner they can take care of you. We are accepting new clients, so if you do need help, feel free to reach out justin health.com evanbrand.com We run these labs on all of our clients because it’s the foundation. We’ve got to have the data. We’ve gotta have the puzzle pieces on the table; otherwise, you can’t move the needle. We could throw a bunch of random stuff at you might help, can’t hurt, but we want to get you better. There’s a systemic process that we do step by step by step to take you through this. So happy to help. Reach out if you got questions and thanks for tuning.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh! One last thing, man. I forgot to add.  This is so important. Low calories.

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Just not eating enough calories will cause low body temperature. It’s shown to cause a low level T3. Now this is important because if your diet is 25% crap Ola and let’s say you’re eating 2000 calories a day and then we switch you over— we switch you over to a uh— autoimmune kinda Paleo template, but you’re only able to—to—to switch over 75% of your diet because you don’t—you don’t have enough you—you can’t replace all the crap that you’re eating with the good stuff, right?

Evan Brand: Right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Because if you’re eating a whole bunch of crappy carbohydrates and stuff and then you replace it with a whole bunch of really good vegetables or lower sugar foods, well guess what? You’re probably didn’t replace the calorie amount either. So now you got this 25% calorie deficiency. So now instead of having 2000 calories, right? Now you’re having 1500 calories and maybe metabolically you need 2000 calories. Now you’re 500 calories in the hole which means your 500 calories deficient of various nutrients. So now your metabolism goes low coz there’s less fuel. That’s important. I see a lot. So you gotta  work with someone that really can make sure you’re exchanging the foods and you’re getting enough calories as well. Coz calories equal nutrition. if you’re eating real foods.

Evan Brand: I’m glad you mentioned that. That’s such a simple but common issue. If you’re going AIP, you are going Paleo, you’re eating real foods, you could have an entire plate full of broccoli and it may only be 50 calories.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly.

Evan Brand: Yeah. Dude, great job. Way to kill it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And of course, the infections like you mentioned can really suck down the energy. Of course, acute infection, you know, you’re causing a fever, right? Because the immune system’s trying to up regulate itself because a lot of the bacteria and crap there uhm—they’re like—they’re mesophilic. They—they thrive in a medium temperature. So when you go a little bit higher, you can actually kill them off with a higher temperature. But these chronic bugs can really deplete the energy the body and create this kinda lower temperatures as well. For sure.

Evan Brand: Yeah. And I went—I went to low-calorie for a period of time, not intentionally, not on purpose. It just happened. I was eating meats, I was eating veggies and  I track my calories for a few days and I was eating m—and my activity level  and all that. I was probably 4 to 600 calories deficient. So just added in an extra tablespoon of butter here and there, half of an avocado here and there, handful of nuts and seeds. And I was right back up to where I needed to be.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Like here’s a seesaw right?

Evan Brand: Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So if like carbohydrate is here, if carbs go lower— this is fat over here. The fats have to go up.

Evan Brand: Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: If you keep the fats here, you keep the fats on—on this side low, and drop the carbohydrates, that’s where the problem happens. The fats also have to go up. That’s the biggest issue. Proteins typically stay in the middle. Typically, proteins only go up if you’re doing a whole bunch of protein powders because proteins and fats are intimately connected. Uh so if you’re eating real whole foods, you know, it’s hard to get just proteins in whole foods, unless you’re doing maybe like venison or rabbit or like boneless chicken breast. But if you’re eating full fat foods, you’re gonna get fat. And then if you’re adding fats to your vegetables, you’re gonna get extra fat without the protein there as well.

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So keep that at the back of your head.

Evan Brand: Perfect.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Anyone listening here, give us comments below. Give us some shares. Give us some likes. We want to hear thoughts in the comment section. If you’re listening to us on iTunes, that’s great. Click below and subscribe to our YouTube channel. You can see Evan and I’s mugs going back and forth in our little combos here. And then you can give us some comments below here on YouTube. We love the see the feedback. And Evan, hey man, you have a great day. We’ll talk soon.

Evan Brand: Take care.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Take care. Bye.

Evan Brand: Bye.

 


 

References:

justinhealth.com

evanbrand.com

https://justinhealth.com/products/thyro-balance

https://justinhealth.com/products/thyro-replete/

http://www.curetoothdecay.com/


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