How to Address Your Fatigue and Gut Symptoms via Organic Acid Testing | Podcast #328
Hey, guys! In this video, Dr. J and Evan talk about addressing gut symptoms via organic acid testing. To start with, Organic acid testing (OAT) became very popular amongst functional medicine doctors and dietitians. It is a urine-based test that gives essential information about the functioning of various bodily systems and to identify possible nutrient deficiencies, gut dysbiosis, and more.
Organic acid testing may be beneficial for people whose symptoms have not yet describe through other stool tests, blood work, or urinary hormone tests. It helps give an immense understanding of nutrient deficiencies, mitochondrial function, neurotransmitter metabolism, detoxification abilities, antioxidant status, and gut health, which trained and experienced clinicians can utilize to dive deeper.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani
In this episode, we cover:
1:07 Organic Acid Testing, Gut Issues
5:17 Candida, Oxolates
10:27 How Lab Results are Interpreted
17:14 Metabolism, Energy Production
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And we are alive. It’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani in the house with Evan Brand. Today we are going to be talking about organic acid testing organic acids are wonderful technology that we use with almost all patients to really look under the metabolic hood to see what is going on whether it’s functional metabolic issues, deficiencies, certain nutrient deficiencies, gut imbalances, detoxification problems, methylation issues, we weren’t able to kind of peel back the onion, so to speak and look deeper under the hood. Evan, how are we doing today man?
Evan Brand: Doing really good excited to dive in! You know, I can say this with confidence, because I’ve actually spoke to the lab about this that you and I, personally, between us clinically, we are in the top five of practitioners worldwide running the most organic acids testing.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow, isn’t that cool? I didn’t even know that. I knew I knew we were up there. But that’s really cool to hear.
Evan Brand: Yeah. So So what does that mean? Well, that just means that we’ve looked at so many of these that we can really get good at what we’re doing. And most importantly, we can help you the listener figure out exactly how your symptoms are linked in to a particular body system dysfunction. So we’re going to talk today about how the gut, you can find information about the gut via urine. And we talked about stool testing a lot. But in some cases, the urine is actually a little bit better for investigating the gut, which is pretty interesting. So we’ll dive into that we’re going to talk about energy markers and how your energy and fatigue levels can be tied in also. And the mood category, we’re going to get into possibly depression, anxiety, and how that could be tied in or even OCD behavior, depression, winter depression, and then we’re going to get into nutritional markers. And I mean, there’s just so much information from one cup of tea, it’s like magic.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, we can get a lot. And again, when we’re looking at gut issues, I always tell patients, we’re always going to look at a gut test, like a good high quality gut tasks. You know, there’s a couple of tests that we use, but once the genetic test that looks at the gut microbiome infections, h pylori, bacterial overgrowth, inflammation, markers, digestion, markers, immune markers, so we’ll always want to look at a comprehensive gut test to see what’s going on. But it’s nice to look at the organic acids, because sometimes, most of the time, I would say they kind of correlate where we see some kind of bacterial overgrowth, or a fungal overgrowth, it will a lot of times say it on there, I do find the organic acids do pick up fungal overgrowth far more often than stool test to a lot of times, if you’re looking at under the threshold level of fungal stuff, we do see a lot of fungal stuff. It’s not at the positive level. But if we see it there at all, you know, we typically consider it a problem. And then third, you know, we may not see total congruence, like there may say gut issues on an organic acid test, but not on a gut test. And guess what, if we just see it anywhere once, then that’s enough for us to kind of move forward on it. We don’t need total agreement. It’s just an extra check. It’s an extra net to catch anything that could be missing. And of course, we get deeper look in what’s happening nutritionally methylation, B vitamins, sulfur metabolism, detoxification, mitochondrial functions, we really get a good window at what’s happening underneath the hood.
Evan Brand: Yeah, I want to show you this three year old, if you’ll let me share my screen, I tried to click on it, it says you got to enable it for me. But I’ve got a three year old little girl as a client who has been to conventional doctors, and she can’t get help. And the pediatrician, of course, is just saying, Hey, you know, possibly do some vitamin D. And that’s really it. Okay, now I can share. So let me pull this up here. Can you see that?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes, I can.
Evan Brand: Okay, good. So the people watching too, if you’re listening via audio, I encourage you check out Dr. Justin’s Justin Health YouTube channel. If you’re listening and you want to see the visual here, we’re going to try to make sure that those doing audio only still get the gist of it. But really, what we’re trying to find here are high markers. That’s when you really see problems. And you can see for this little girl, this is keep in mind this a three year old little girl. And the parents said that the girl is literally addicted to sugar, and she refuses to eat anything else. And she has a ton of symptoms, skin, mood, gut behavior, just all kinds of stuff and look at this tartaric acid, which is an indication of Aspergillus, growing in our gut, we want less than 3.9. She’s 147. I think this is the highest I’ve ever seen. And sadly, it’s an a child. And then of course, arabba knows you and I’ve talked about that being the gas that Candida produces, we want less than 56. She’s off the charts at 226. So right there really high, that’s really high. This is the amazing thing in five seconds of us looking at this page, we know this person’s already colonized for mold, and they were in a moldy house in Texas had major mold exposure. And when now we know that she’s got a major Candida problem. So even if we just had that data and just pursued those two points, we would get a hell of a hell of a lot more results than what you would get if you went to the pediatrician and said, Hey, I think she’s got a problem. They’re not going to know anything about these tests or these markers.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Plus in the conventional medical world, I mean, frankly, you know, candida that doesn’t really exist to people like that right. Conventional medical doctors at They’re very rarely saying, hey Candida is a problem. Usually it’s one of those things. They just say, Oh, yeah, that’s just kind of what natural medicine thinks everything is. The problem is candida, but not necessarily. But if we have objective markers that show it, it’s good to really know that and conventional medicine isn’t typically doing testing that sensitive enough to really pick it up.
Evan Brand: Yeah, and I know you run a lot of the Genova panels. And the reason that I use the Great Plains is just because I like to run the combo a lot when I, you know, I’ve kind of attracted a lot of moldy people. And so we like to run the mycotoxin combo test. So one cup of tea, and we get two labs. So that’s why I do the the Great Plains, but the rest of page one was okay, she didn’t show any major bacterial overgrowth, he was starting to creep up there on one of these markers. But overall, it was decent. Let’s move on. Let’s look at this is where all the fatigue is coming from. They said that this kid is just exhausted. And then they described it as poor tone, where she literally just lays on the floor all the time. Justin, I don’t know if you’ve ever even seen anything this high. I mean, look at these oxalates 677 off the charts. We know Candida is a piece of it, but man, and then look at the I call it succinic. But I think it’s actually pronounced succinic.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So succinic, yeah, and just so you know, oxalates a lot of times, especially in a kid, it’s probably not like, I would never tell a mom like oh my gosh, like most green vegetables have oxalates in it. So I wouldn’t be telling any mom like oh my gosh, you need to avoid green vegetables. Unless there was some kind of oxalate crystal issue in regards to kidney or significant muscle or join issues. I would just think that, hey, those oxalates are probably high because of the candida, candida that can really increase oxalate production and decrease oxalate synthesis. So I would lean more on the Candida being the oxalate problem.
Evan Brand: And I think this is huge, because you have some unnamed people writing books and fearmongering people about oxalates. And now you have people paranoid vegetables, like you just mentioned, you’ve got people that are like cutting vegetables out because they’re worried about the oxalates. But you and I’ve seen personally and clinically hundreds and hundreds of point reductions in the oxalic acid just by treating the Candida so Yeah, I would agree that when we know she’s not eating vegetables, so we know that that’s not where it’s coming from.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And so we know if they have a Candida issue and they have a whole bunch of sweet cravings, you know, exactly. They’re not eating a whole bunch of vegetables. That’s not the issue. They’re, you know, a whole bunch of crap. And we don’t want to give them any more ammo to let their that their kiddo eat crap, right. So we want to definitely get some good nutrition in there, more than likely most of the oxalate issues are going to be from the Candida. Now again, some of the exceptions may be if we have vulvodynia, excessive joint pain from oxalate crystals, crystals, maybe kidney stones, or really kidney pain issues, that could be something really clinically significant. If not, we’re not going to worry about the oxalates, we’re going to think of that more as an effect than a cause the cause really being Candida and the effect being more of the oxalates as the cause. So I always when I’m looking at these labs of patients, I always have them in their head, draw a line one sides, cause one size effect affects we watch and monitor causes we treat and work on supporting. And so it’s easy for people to look at an effect think that is the cause and treat the effect. And then a lot of times the result won’t be as good or you do things that aren’t necessary, like cut out foods that may be really healthy for your kid.
Evan Brand: Totally Yes, same thing for the citric acid here on 29. For those listening, we’re looking at these little triangles, basically, the higher the number goes down in general, the more of a problem or dysfunction we have. And we want citric acid, maybe somewhere around 200 would be moderate. This poor little girl is off the charts almost at 1300. And we know citric acid will go high with Candida and fungal overgrowth in general. But all this succinic acid and malic acid oxic glutaric, these things are off the chart. So this just indicates an insane amount of mitochondrial dysfunction. And that’s, that’s why this girl is literally so exhausted. She can’t go to school, the parents can hardly get her out of bed. And she’s three years old. I mean, you know, my daughter, she’s four now, but when she was three, I mean, she bounces out of bed and she’s just running, running, running, going and putting her bird feeders up. I mean, this kid wakes up with energy. So you can just see, these symptoms that kids face in the parents is think gold. They’re just, like bored, or they’re just tired, but they don’t think Wow, she could have a ton of mitochondrial damage.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% Yep. 100%. So looking at a bunch of these things here. I think we hit a lot of good things out of the gates. Let me just keep on rolling here. So actually, do you want to hit a little a couple more things? I’m going to show some of my organic acid testing to the second.
Evan Brand: Let me do to show this one page here. So some of the nutritional markers are gonna get, we’re gonna see here that she was very deficient in riboflavin. The higher it goes actually the more deficient and then of course vitamin C is in Charlie is just completely toast. And then we’ve got some other markers ammonia excess and some gi bacteria markers, but overall, the main things I wanted to hit were just massive mitochondrial damage, massive colonization of mold and Candida. So don’t think that just because your kid is young That means they can’t, they don’t have permission to be sick. I mean, I started treating my daughter when she was two because she had parasites. And so I just, I feel bad because you know, these kids, when they’re really young like this, they may not be able to express all of their pains and their symptoms. But hopefully there’s enough whether it’s skin or mood or behavior or, or sleeping issues, that there’s enough justification for the parents to reach out, run the labs, and then we can really show them on paper, what their kids just can’t verbalize.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% I think it’s really good points. Now, just to kind of give people a little understanding how we interpret how we look at some of the labs pretty simple. So we want some of the markers here on the labs to be in the middle distribution. So if you look at my screen here, can you see my screen?
Evan Brand: Perfect.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, good. Excellent. And I just make sure that you can see me as well along with that. Okay. So in general, we want these markers to be somewhat in the second to fourth quintile distribution, when they go on the extreme high or low, we always get a little bit concerned. And we get more concerned if it’s near a red area. So there are some of these markers are two tailed meaning, let’s say number seven citrate, where there’s a red on the left and the right, and some are one tail there say most are one tailed, like adipate subarray, [inaudible] where there’s only a red to the right, does that make sense to tail means read on both sides, one tail means read on one side. And of course, if markers are low, and we’re closer to a read that matters more, so we want them to be somewhat distribution in the middle extreme highs or lows are more concerning, especially if they’re grouped together now. So in this section here, fatty acid metabolism, we see them on the lower side, not as big of a deal, because this is only one tail. But we do keep that in mind. We look in the carbohydrate metabolism, you see you’re in the middle here without lactate, which is one of the more important markers, beta hydroxy butyrate, being higher isn’t that big of a deal. That’s a ketone. That’s a ketone. It’s not that big of a deal. lactate is a marker for co q 10. Typically, and pyruvate is a marker typically for B vitamins and B complex as well. So this being a little bit low, less than detectable limit isn’t that big of a deal, as long as you don’t have a whole bunch of them there. But we do keep an eye on it. And I always tell patients chronically high organic acids, that’s like a demand issue. So it’s like you’re making a million bucks a year, but spending $2 million a year you have a lot of income coming in, but your demand for that money for those resources is high. So functionally, we’re still in debt, right? And when we’re chronically low, especially in areas where there where it’s two tailed and red, that’s a sign that there’s a depletion issue depletion, it’s like you’re making 10,000 bucks a year. But spending 100, right, you’re making a lot less, right. There’s not a lot coming in, but but you’re still spending more than you’re making, right? So both in the end, you’re in debt. Okay, that’s kind of the analogy I give. And I always tell patients, well, what’s the root cause? Like? No, we always want to be focused on the root cause we may be doing palliative support. People can feel better in the moment, but we always want to get to the root cause support now, with organic acids pretty simple. First is going to be diet, and it could be a macro issue, and or micro issue, meaning if someone’s eating that looks like a healthy diet, but it’s not organic. Well, it may be significantly deficient in certain nutrients, right. If you look at Joel Salatin runs polyface farm, he found he sent his organic eggs to the lab, and they looked at the amount of full weight that was in his organic eggs, it was 20 times more fully in his organic eggs than the typical conventional storebought eggs. So organic matters. It’s not just pesticides, pesticides is important. It’s a big part, but it’s also nutrition. So of course, eating organic makes a bigger difference, food quality makes a big difference. And then number two is going to be absorption absorption can be affected by gut microbiome issues, parasites, fungal overgrowth, bacterial overgrowth, it could be affected by low stomach acid and enzymes and bile salt levels. It can also be affected by food allergies, chronic food allergens, or chronic inflammation in the intestines, can can drive it to number three, just general stress. Stress can be categorized as physical stress, right? you’re exercising too hard. Maybe you’re too sedentary, maybe you’re not getting enough sleep, maybe your emotional stress is off the charts. And that’s throwing off your cortisol and your adrenals and your hormones. Stress plays a big role. Number four is toxicity, toxicity primarily from pesticides, heavy metals, mold, toxins, pesticides, heavy metal mold, toxins are biggies. And then number five is genetic. Genetic can mean hey, you just need more magnesium, you need more amino acids, you need more B vitamins than the average person just for who you are. Could be an mthfr issue. You need good high quality full eight, that cheap folic acid stuff is not cutting it. You need more methylated B vitamins. So genetically, there could be just some imbalances in regards to what your biochemical needs. I think Roger Williams wrote a book called biochemical individuality talking about people’s need for certain nutrients can be exponentially higher than someone else’s. And so those are kind of the big five things out of the gate. Any comments on that, Evan?
Evan Brand: Yeah. So one thing I think it’s important to point out is people get really caught up in the DNA and the genetic testing and I’m cool with So I’m cool with it. But I just want to highlight something you said here, which is that we’re really going to be looking more at the downstream effect of any of those genetic predispositions here correct meaning, let’s say that there is a genetic predisposition to needing some more foliage or some B vitamins upstream, but then that manifests downstream, we’re gonna see it here, we’re going to see the citric acid cycle, we may see some things off of this carbohydrate metabolism section. So what I’m saying is not that the genetic stuff is useless, but that you and I are going to see the result of those genetic issues here. Is that correct? And the you might not need that genetic data, because you’re going to be looking here at what the actual body has. Is that true?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% Yep. 110%.
Evan Brand: Because you send us the snips, right, well, I’ve got this snip or this genetic This or this genetic that, but I really would prefer to look at the organic acids, maybe in addition to but if I’m without the genetic information, I still feel confident in what we’re going to do and the results we can achieve with just the test alone.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, here’s one image. I’ll put it on screen. These are two twins here called Otto and Iwa, can you see it? Yep. These are exact twins. Okay, so one engaged in you know, lifting weights eating better the other one? Not? I mean, you can see, look at the difference. Fuller hair for muscles, right? It’s same DNA. Remember, twins have the exact same DNA. Right? So this is important. So we know our genetics can change. The reason why I don’t like the genetic tests as much as because you could have you could have someone being an alcoholic eating terribly. Someone totally changing their life and and eating incredibly healthily. And guess what? The DNA looks exactly the same. So it kind of it’s a snapshot in time. It’s not functional does not change based on your your lifestyle decisions. And so you can see here we know, right, this is the same DNA here. This is the these are two German twins, like 1969. Same DNA. Look at the difference.
Evan Brand: Okay, yeah, people on audio people on audio listening, he’s showing a picture of these guys, they’re twins, you can see same height, same looks everything. But then the guy, one guy is, who knows, maybe 130 pounds, the other guy’s like 170, and just ripped shredded muscles.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep. And so basically, it’s the epi genetics. It’s it’s the functional progress that we’re looking at. So just kind of put that there. And again, anyone listening, we’re trying to do enough of a good job describing what’s happening. So if you’re in your car drive and just kind of listen to us, if not, we’ll put a link right below to the YouTube video. So if you guys want to engage in the video, feel free. Let me go back to the organic acids, though. So we talked about fatty acid metabolism, carb metabolism, energy production. So we’d like this to be somewhat in the middle seven through 14 is a bunch of these organic acids here. The names don’t necessarily matter. citrate, Sr connotates, ISO citrate alpha ketoglutarate, succinate, Fumarate analyte, hydroxy, [inaudible] doesn’t matter, right, that’s just just focus on what it means these typically correlate with nutrients like B vitamins and CO, q, 10, and chromium, chromium and arginine and cysteine, and B complex and manganese and magnesium and lipoic acid. So when we see deviations high or low, especially a whole section, higher low, that tells us those nutrients are going to be burnt up depleted. And it just gives us a window, what’s happening. And we got to look at it in correlation to someone’s lifestyle, how good their diet is, how crappy their absorption is all that matters. I always try to look at the top the patient’s top two or three symptoms, I try to correlate it to the, to the systems that may not be functioning optimally based on the organic acids. And then I support based on that, because there’s a lot of things you could support at all times. At the back page, they’ll typically give you a whole bunch of things that were to recommend here. I ignore that. Because because there’s a clinical art to this. And we’re doing a lot of different things. At the same time. We’re not just like running this test. I’m just saying here, take the supplements, we’re really trying to look at the whole big picture.
Evan Brand: Okay, I kind of skipped over some of the importance of the neurotransmitters in the beginning. I mentioned we’re gonna hit some brain chemistry stuff, depression, and some mood issues. Cool.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Depending on how bad your gut health is. Ideally, if we’re doing some kind of a really good high quality methylated B 12. Or [inaudible] or hydroxyl and or some kind of something sublingual, usually we can not necessarily need it if we’re doing the high enough of a dose and or sublingual. But if someone maybe has really bad Crohn’s or ulcerative colitis and bloods coming out of their stool, and we see markers on their differentials, you know, hi MC, ah, Hi mctv Hi, MC, hc, and or high methylmalonic acid, we may want to just do a one off injection to bias time, but most of the time, it’s not necessary. Because when patients come in to see us, we’re doing all kinds of diet changes and lifestyle changes a month before these tests even come in. So then the time they get these tests in usually we’ve calmed down most of any acute issues to begin with. Does that make sense?
Evan Brand: It does. Yeah, I just see a lot of these pop up IV clinics going around and people they’re paying a really pretty penny for some of these injectable B vitamins versus some of the pricing that you and I offer on some of the our professional methylated sublingual nutrients, it’s maybe a quarter of the cost, if not half the cost. And you don’t have to get an injection. You don’t have to travel to a clinic and sit in the chair. You can do it at home and you can fix it. So yeah, I would agree with you.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I would say depending on how acute The issue is, maybe that may dictate. And also if you’re acutely sick, that may help kind of as a palliative thing, but in general, it’s not practical from a day in day out standpoint. And then we have our neurotransmitter. So vanel, Mandalay and Homo vandelay. They’re kind of they’re two, they’re two sides of the same sword so vandal Mandalay, it’s a marker for adrenaline, home of analytes, a marker for dopamine. Now in the in the neurotransmitter synthesis pathway, it goes phenyl alanine tyrosine tyrosine l dopa l dopa epinephrine norepinephrine. So what does that mean? It means home of anolyte will eventually home of anolyte looks at dopamine, right? So dopamine will eventually go downstream to adrenaline. It’s the next step in the cascade if there is stress going on. So when you support adrenaline, you’re also support a dopamine, when you support dopamine, you’re also supporting adrenaline. And you may not have both of these out of balance. So in this case, this person is having more of an adrenaline issue. Now, by supporting the adrenaline we will be supporting dopamine. But if you have a chronic adrenaline issue, you will eventually be depleting dopamine, because it just comes from it. It’s the precursor, your fan, Amanda lates, the post cursor, dopamine or Homo ventilates, the precursor? Does that make sense?
Evan Brand: So let me say it in another way, you’re going to see a depletion of your endorphins before you see a depletion of dopamine.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, no, you could see both, you could see a dopamine issue before endorphin. That’s gonna be all based on genetics. But if you only see one issue going on, it’s just a matter of time before that second issue kicks in.
Evan Brand: I’d say 75 80% of the time, you are seeing both at the same time lower.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So think of it as like this, you have two credit cards, right? You’re only in debt on one credit card. Well, if you keep up your spending habits, it’s just a matter of time before you’re in debt on both credit cards. Does that make sense? Okay, just like that, and then five hydroxy. And these are all metabolites. So these organic acids, they’re metabolites of amino acids. And these metabolites give us a window into certain nutrients. And so as long as you have an understanding on what the nutrients are and what the area is, the actual organic acid doesn’t necessarily matter that much, FYI.
Evan Brand: I think I think of it and kind of refer to it as like the fingerprint of what’s going on or maybe the ash in the bonfire, you can see the evidence of what’s happened. You’re just kind of analyzing the ash and looking at the fingerprints.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, patients usually think of it as like gas in the gas tank. Is it higher? Is it low? I’m like, Nope, it’s RPMs and the engine RPMs is overly overly high or really low or really high demand overly low on the on the stimulation.
Evan Brand: Scroll down to that detox marker. I want to see what you can tell us about that one there that-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Let me just finished the neurotransmitters real fast. So five hydroxy acid that’s a serotonin marker. So serotonin plays roles in motility, mood, sleep, happiness. Another big one kind of urinate plays a really important role would be six right B six helps with the synthesis of all these nutrients. All these neurotransmitters and of course, kind of urinates brother or sister is anther urinate so this person has high xanthine Made in high kind of urinate. So we know there’s definitely a B six problem. And B six plays a really important role in neurotransmitters. So if you’re just thinking, Oh, I’m going to just take some tyrosine or phenyl. alanine, yeah, probably not the best, okay? Because you need the other nutrients there. And then also picolinate chronically low is a big sign of low amino acids and if we have low amino acids, it could be a catabolic stress issue. You’re just burning up a lot because you’re you’re a lot of Khattab catabolic stress, cortisol imbalances, hyper adrenal stuff, it could also be, you’re not getting enough protein, you’re not eating enough vegetarian V and not eating enough or you’re not digesting enough, it could be all of the above. And then we have our oxidative stress. Oxidation is losing electrons when you lose electrons. And you don’t have enough antioxidants like vitamin C, or a or E or good antioxidants like curcumin or resveratrol. Those help donate electrons. And if we are donating electrons, when we lose them, we can create free radical damage and that can chip away at our DNA and cause our DNA to age rapidly. Any questions on that last part?
Evan Brand: No, we’re good. Let’s run into the detoxes part.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, so this person right here is very depleted detoxification. So the most important markers here are these two, or these two tailed markers at the bottom, pirate, glutamate and sulfate. Very important, they all correlate with Bluetooth ion. So when I see low sulfate and low pirate glutamate that almost always means a glue to phi on depletion. So the big neurotransmitters here are n acetylcysteine, cysteine, taurine, glutamine refining, right? glycine, they all play a very important role in making our tripeptide most powerful antioxidant glutathione.
Evan Brand: Let me pose a question to you that some people will have at this section is they’re going to say okay, you mentioned gluta found depletion. So are you saying that there was a toxin issue, maybe a mold toxin that depleted the glutathione and or you’re saying that you may not even have the raw materials necessary to synthesize Bluetooth ion, right. So it could be a two pronged issue, it could be a depletion of glutathione due to toxins, plus the inability to make it is that what you’re saying? This could show?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes, so it could be one more variable so one, it could be a combination of exposure to toxins that are stressing out that pathway to you’re not getting enough good exposure to sulfur amino acids. Three, it could be not, you’re not digesting your protein well, right. And for when you get stressed part of the whole catecholamine adrenaline noradrenaline pathway require sulfur requires sulfur to help with that conversion and metabolism of healthy, healthy neurotransmitters. So you actually need sulfur on the neurotransmitter. So if you’re chronically stressed, you could also deplete sulfur that way,
Evan Brand: So each each your broccoli, folks as long as you can tolerate it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, more importantly, yes, there’s a lot of sulfur there. But more importantly, like your animal protein, like you’re gonna get a lot of sulfur in there. But from an amino acid from a bulk amino acid standpoint, you’re going to get way more sulfur in protein from a caloric standpoint, as a percentage as a percentage of the food, you’re going to get a lot of sulfur and broccoli, but this is just low calorie, right. So you get more from a caloric standpoint with high quality animal products, or honestly, whey protein or college and proteins. Excellent, too, for that, too.
Evan Brand: Yeah, that’s what I was gonna say if somebody is listening, and they either maybe were previously vegetarian or couldn’t get back into the meats, maybe they were having issues digesting meats, we’ve got some really good like grass fed ways or some collagen hydrolyzed beef proteins. Those work amazing.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, or even just free form amino acids that are kind of been fermented that still are pretty balanced, they can, they can help get the needle moving on that. And then this to methyl hippuric can also be elevated due to xylene. And xylene can be in drinking water could be smoking, inhalation, vehicle exhaust, now, a different different nail polish those xylenes one of those things that could be an issue up there as well. It’s possible it’d be put on the list. I mean, most people we’re trying to educate them on healthy products, how you know, good water filtration, good, hygienic products. And then if we look down here below, this is gut bacteria. Now this person only has one elevated gut bacterial metabolite. And I tell patients like what we’re looking at here like this is typically bad bugs, usually more on the gram negative side. It’s not telling us what the bugs are. Could it be h pylori, could it be klebsiella? citrobacter? Could it be prepatellar morganella. It can be all those things. Right? Pseudomonas, it could be it’s just looking at the exhaust. So it’s like, okay, a car was was had their engine on they were in the garage, they left you show up to the house, you open the garage, I feel like there’s some exhaust in here. Like you may not be able to know Oh, that’s a four. That’s a Chevy. that’s a that’s a Toyota, you may not be able to know what car it is, but you can know Okay, something was in here. Does that make sense? And so it just tells us Okay, we got some exhaust of some bad bugs here. And we probably got to work on it. And now if we have the stool test, we can no okay. Yeah, well, you also test the positive for Pseudomonas and klebsiella and H. pylori. So that’s probably what that’s correlating with. I had a patient last week had a lot of bugs and he Laurie, and there wasn’t much elevated at all, I think this is the test. This is the person that had a lot of other big bigger bugs. And that can happen. I tell him, you, we don’t need both tests to confirm most of the time they do. And then I’d say most of the time, the organic acids, picks up the de arabba, Anatol, this picks up the the fungal overgrowth before the GI map or the stool test. So it’s good to have both, that’s a really good marker. And then a lot of times the if we see a lot of bacterial overgrowth here, that a lot of times would correlate maybe with a SIBO breath test where we do a lactulose. And we and we blow into it for three hours afterwards. A lot of times, we’ll see a correlation on that as well.
Evan Brand: Yeah, yeah, well said. And I think you made a great point here, which is that sometimes you’re not going to get the smoking gun on this test, the stool may come in and provide better data and vice versa. Rarely, the Candida shows up on the stool, though the the oat test is always going to be better for Candida at least 98% of the time.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, 100%. Now also, with induction, this may also give us a window into bio output, as well as poor protein digestion. So induction issues, you know, usually more purified protein work on HCl, of course, I’m always working on HCl Anyway, I’m just giving you a little bit more of an insight. Usually, with the lactate being on the higher side, that almost always means there’s a lot of extra probiotics in the system. So they may be taking a lot of lactobacillus or bifidobacterium. And usually these patients may get more bloated to those kinds of probiotics. And usually that’s common with SIBO. So we see a lot of the lactate, that can mean there’s other already taking a lot of probiotics, and then that may be a problem. And they may want to switch to a spore based probiotic or even just no probiotics, and maybe even a a low fodmap diet out of the gates. You know, those are different things just clinically, I noticed over the years. And again, when we look at this, we’re taking into account the patient’s adrenal tests, what’s happening with their thyroid? What’s happening with their their gut functioning, what’s happening with their lifestyle? Have they had their had they had mercury fillings removed? Has there been any mold exposure? What’s their diet? Like? What’s their digestion? Like? Are they pooping everyday, we’re looking at the whole picture. So some people may look at this test totally in isolation, not good. You really want to connect it to everything else that’s going on?
Evan Brand: Yep.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Anything else you want to highlight there Evan?
Evan Brand: If you haven’t had your organic acids test, reach out, let’s get it done. Let’s see what’s going on. This is an amazing test. If I only had like desert island situation, I only had one test to run, I’d honestly probably pick this one, wouldn’t you? Or what would you pick?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I would because you do get a window, what’s happening with the adrenals a little bit you do get a window, what’s happening with the mitochondria. And then you also get a little bit of a window in regards to what’s happening in the gut and detoxification. So you get a window of a lot of different things. And I love it with kids. Because, you know, kids don’t want to get their needle, get a needle in their arm, right. And so it’s really nice. This is a urine based test if you want to avoid getting a blood draw. It’s a really easy test to do out of the gate. So I do like that.
Evan Brand: Also. And it’s at home too, right? So if you got people that are elderly, or just you know, paranoid to go out, for example, in the public and go into a lab, hey, you do it at home, you get it back. I mean, how convenient does it get?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and then also with this test, you got to be careful if you’re chronically low protein. This is running it off of creatine. So if creatine is too low, which is a protein metabolite, you could get some, some false readings on the on the lower side. So you got to make sure there’s a protein in the system. And so if you’re dealing with someone who doesn’t eat much protein at all, you know, we’ll typically throw in some freeform amino acids for a couple of weeks ahead of time. That way, those systems at least have the substrate to move metabolically, if you will.
Evan Brand: Yeah. Great pointing out.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Anything else you want to say, Evan?
Evan Brand: I don’t think so we’ll give the links to people. If you enjoyed this, please let us know. I know this was kind of fast, and maybe a little overwhelming, because we’re breaking down. But for us, this is something we do all day every day. And of course, for your unique situation. We’re going to talk you through what’s going on what you need to do, how to fix it. But give us some feedback. So like I said, if you’re on Justin’s YouTube channel, right in the comments, do you like these video versions, because a lot of times you and I are just riffing on stuff. But if people like the videos, we’ve got so much stuff that we can uncover. We’ve got literally 1000s of case studies, we can start reviewing, if you want to see before and after, like, Hey, here’s a protocol we implemented. And you know, we’re not going to give exact dosing and say, Tell it tell you to do it, but we could run you through what we do, if you like it. So let us know because we really need the feedback to help guide the show.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and also, we’re trying to be different than other people that are talking about these topics, because they’re not in the trenches. So we’re in the trenches. So, you know, our kind of unique proposition for y’all is that we do this every day, and we want to provide valuable information that’s actually actionable. And is it’s real, it’s something that we’re in that this is the patient from last week that I’m talking about here, right? And so we’re trying to provide actionable information and if you see this and you kind of get a little bit overwhelmed, it’s okay, it’s normal to feel overwhelmed. We review 1000s of these tests, it takes a couple you know dozen to kind of get your get your, your feet wet, so to speak. So just an FYI, if you get overwhelmed, not a big deal. If you work with us as patients, you know, we typically go over these things a couple of times and then usually patients have questions a month or two later after the test. We always go back. Part of being a great clinician is you have to be a great teacher. So if anyone feels overwhelmed with it, don’t worry, we tend to take these things, boil them down, make sure you have the key action components. As long as you have the action items, that’s the most important thing. And if you want to reach out to someone like myself or EvanBrand.com you can reach out to Evan. Evan has the same philosophy you got to have a heart of a teacher. And then Justin Health myself, Dr. J at JustInHealth.com. There’s links there for you guys to click. If you enjoyed it, let us know. If you want to dive in deeper. Let us know if you want to support us in any way you can always purchase any of the labs or supplementation from our website. It goes to help fund this show and make it all possible. Evan, anything else you want to say?
Evan Brand: I don’t think so. You covered it. And please subscribe if you’re not already, you know, I looked at our statistics and a lot of people that listen, they’re not subscribed, so make sure you hit subscribe. I think with no ads and all killer, no filler content. This is a much more listenable podcast, I tried to listen to a couple health podcasts the other day. And there was like an ad in the beginning that was like five minutes. And then there’s like right in the middle of the conversation. There’s like another ad and then like an ad at the end. I mean, I think people take us for granted with our adlis shows I might have to start doing ads just to you know, tell us Hey, didn’t you miss the ad free days?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I know man to do that with the switch. So if you enjoy it, let us know and support us down below. Alright Devin phenomenal chatting with you today. We’ll be back next week everyone share, thumbs up comment-
Thyroid and Nutrient Deficiencies Q & A – Podcast #125
Dr. Justin Marchegiani and Evan Brand dive into an exciting discussion all about thyroid. Listen carefully as they engage in a dynamic conversation with the listeners and share some valuable information regarding their functional medicine approach on issues relating to thyroid; its connection to adrenal health, gut health, nutrition, and infections.
Learn about the hyper- and hypo- symptoms related to thyroid issues. Find out how other conditions like leaky gut and other infections are linked to thyroid health. Gain valuable information on different tests used to assess thyroid health and rule out other conditions contributing to thyroid issues. Increase your awareness about the different sources, like foods, supplements, and metals which all impacts thyroid function.
In this episode, we cover:
04:19 Thyroid and its connection to adrenals and leaky gut
12:50 Testing for Autoimmunity
16:42 Infections and Thyroid Health Connection
21:35 Cortisol Lab Test for Adrenal Issue
28:36 Thyroid Symptoms and Assessment
37:20 Gluten and its connection to leaky gut
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: YouTube as well. Any questions, feel free to type them in. Today’s podcast will be on thyroid. Evan, can you hear me okay?
Evan Brand: I sure can. You sound good.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Awesome, man. We are live. What’s going on, man?
Evan Brand: Oh, not too much. Like I told you, somebody in France has had a fun weekend with my business credit card. So uh – besides that, everything is good.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool, man. Yeah. Well, at least you got a capital one card, so you’re pretty well protected, right?
Evan Brand: Yup.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s awesome. So we’re live on Facebook and YouTube. Again, better to be on YouTube, my opinion coz you get to see Evan and myself. If you’re watching me on Facebook right now, we’re a little compromised. We only got my feedback. You’re not gonna hear Evan’s side of it. So feel free and check out YouTube.com/justinhealth to be able to see Evan’s pretty face and be able to get some questions there. But we will answer questions on Facebook Live, too.
Evan Brand: Cool. So today we wanted to talk about thyroid. There is many lab test out there that you can get. Still, conventional doctors are not running the lab tests that are important, though, some of these antibody markers, some of the reverse T3 markers. Maybe you should briefly chat about that just since people maybe on Facebook. Talk people through why is this happening? Why are these conventional doctors not running these other important thyroid markers? Why is it just TSH and some of the other boring stuff?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Great question. And again, today we’re talking about thyroid and we talked about this topic a lot, done a lot of videos on it. I have a book coming out on this very shortly as well. So I’m just kinda do a brief overview. Feel free and check out Evan’s page not just Paleo.com and his podcast from more info as well as mine. We’ll give you more info here today. Hopefully we’ll be able to have a live interaction. But Evan’s question is for the Facebook live listeners. “Can we get podcast live on YouTube, too?” is the question about conventional thyroid issues versus functional thyroid issues. And this is a big difference, and most people they go and get help from their conventional physicians on matters of thyroid issues. They think that their conventional doctor is ruling them out for thyroid issues and they may, if it’s an extreme thyroid issue. You know, very, very high TSH, extreme thyroid swelling, uhm – maybe while hyper-symptoms if their grades are on the hyper side, or if they have a lot of thyroid destruction, or goiter things. They may get picked up by conventional testing, but many patients they aren’t getting picked up on conventional testing because they’re kinda in no man’s land. Conventional medicine looks at things like an on and off switch. You’re either healthy, right? The light’s on. Or you’re unhealthy, the light’s off. And we know in functional medicine world, that light switch is more of the dimmer switch, right? The light may be on halfway, right? You’re halfway healthy; or another way to look at it, you’re halfway to not being healthy. But it may not be all the way off. Maybe just flickering a little bit. And unless you’re all the way off, what’s gonna happen is they’re not gonna see anything wrong with your health issues regarding your thyroid. And they’re not gonna make any recommendations for interventions. And that’s the biggest problem. With thyroid issues, looking from the conventional to the functional medicine realm. And also, you have to look at the tools that they have right there. One tool – most part two, you’re gonna have some kinda surgical intervention or you gonna have some kind of uhm – pharmaceutical intervention. None of which typically fixes the root cause of what’s going on. Especially when we understand that thyroid issues are 90% autoimmune in nature. I’d say at least 50-90%. So we know if it’s autoimmune, and we don’t fix the underlying cause of why the autoimmunity is there, right? Then the underlying mechanism of the antibody is in the immune system attacking the thyroid tissue is still happening in the background.
Evan Brand: That’s terrible. I mean we’ve got thousands of people at this point who we work with, where they’re on thyroid drugs, and they still feel terrible. And I’ll go back and say, “Hey Doc, look, give up my Synthroid or other pharmaceutical, I still feel terrible.” And they’re just gonna up the drug more and more and more. So it’s like you’re jamming this gas pedal down, but you are not figuring out what’s the issue in the first place. And so for us, we’ll always gonna be looking at the gut; looking for infection; seeing what could be going on; why is there some type of attack going on. And then also looking at adrenals, too. And figure out what’s the adrenal thyroid connection. Maybe you could brief people on that a little bit? How someone with adrenal issues could have thyroid issues and vice versa.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. So Evan, your question was looking at adrenals thyroid issues, we also have a listener question as well, talking about thyroid and gluten sensitivity. I’ll try to intertwine with the two answers. But again, adrenals are really important because you have cortisol production coming from the adrenals, which is important for managing stress and inflammation. Also, generally energy via blood sugar. Also, cortisol – is they differ healthy thyroid conversion. So if we have two high cortisol, or if your stress response is too high, we’re kinda in a Stage I adrenal issue that can block thyroid conversion. So we have this T4 thyroid hormone that gets converted down to the T3. And T4 is relatively inactive compared to T3. So we have to make this conversion. There’s a lot of things that are needed for that, whether it’s selenium, or zinc, or vitamin A, or other nutrients to help make that conversion. But cortisol, from a hormonal perspective, is also needed. So if we’re too low on our response, right? We have this HPA axis, this regulation, the brain, the agent P, the hypothalamus and pituitary are hypo functioning. They’re dysregulated like a broken thermostat in your house – doesn’t turn on the heat, or turn on the air conditioning. That same thing is needed to help make that conversion from T4 to T3. So we have depleted adrenals that can strongly, strongly be an inhibiting factor of thyroid conversion. And also, if we have too much stress, one of the mechanisms the body does to regulate the stress response, is to make more reverse T3, which is essentially like taking uhm – the clip by the – your gun and putting blanks in there. So they kinda – they fit into the – into the magazine. They fit into the cartridge, right? But they fire, but that then you don’t get the same metabolic effect. You don’t get the increase in energy; don’t get all of the hormonal benefits; you don’t have the warmness and the increased blood circulation; and you don’t have the degradation of cholesterol and other hormonal byproducts. So you can see that the adrenals are intimately connected. Now answering the person’s question here on gluten. Gluten is really important because that’s a big strong – That’s a big stimulator of leaky gut. So gluten exposure can drive leaky gut. What it does is it increases zonulin, which unzips the tight junctions in a lot of patients, even people that are necessarily having a response to gluten. It shows that there is still uh – intestinal permeability that’s happening. And the more food particles that get into the bloodstream, the more LPS is in the gut, the more that can unzip the gut, the more – allow more food particles in there, and create more immune stimulation. And it’s also inflammatory in the gut, too. And also can create this concept known as molecular mimicry, where the immune system sees the surface proteins, and it can mistakenly identified it is the thyroid, and it starts attacking the thyroid tissue, creating more inflammation. And that can cause these thyroid follicles. So still, that hormone is creating unbalanced levels.
Evan Brand: And this could all come from gluten exposure, you’re saying?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It can all come from gluten exposure. Gluten is one strongest stimulators of leaky gut, along with distress, along with LPS, which is a compound produced from bacterial overgrowth, right? So the worse stomach acid, the more stress we have, the more essentially we’re not breaking down our food, the more we’re gonna have bad bacterial overgrowth that’s gonna increase LPS, that’s gonna unzip those tight junctions even faster, which is gonna create more immune issues, more food allergy issues. Because think about it, right? The immune system shouldn’t be getting revved up to deal with food; shouldn’t be getting revved up to deal with the digestion. So the more that’s happening- well what that means is that your immune system is going in overdrive. One of the major reason why people are when they’re sick – think about it. Because their immune system sucks up so much energy. So the more you’re revving up your immune system by just consuming food, you’re gonna be constantly tired. And that’s just gonna drain your adrenals, and drain your thyroid, and increase that thyroid autoimmune attack.
Evan Brand: Yup. Well said. So I mean, we got the zonulin. What’s the link there between the zonulin and LPS? So are these connected at all? Or are these going up and down in relationship to each other?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes. So the more zonulin you have, typically the more leaky gut you’re gonna have, right? So vitamin D is actually a zonulin inhibitor. So the more zonulin you have, the more leaky gut. So LPS will increase zonulin. Infections will increase zonulin. Gluten will increase zonulin. And that basically, if this is like Parker jacket, you’re wearing that’s kinda like unzipping those tight junctions and then basically food particles can get in there.LPS particles can get in there. When LPS flows to the brain and makes it way up to the brain, leaky gut, leaky brain that LPS can create inflammation in the brain which feels like brain fog, which feels like mood issues, which feels like depression, which feels like anxiety. And this is really hard for a lot of people. Getting back to Evan’s question on gluten and the brain, is people may have a gluten issue. Think that well gluten has to cause digestive problems diarrhea, bloating, gas, reflux constipation, diarrhea. But it may not – It may be causing depression, anxiety brain fog, poor memory, poor uh – just word recall. And you may have a gluten issue, but it may not be even because by – you know, you may not see it because it’s not those conventional symptoms. And again, that same thing is gonna create thyroid issues, too. Coz that same mechanism that opens up the lining of the blood-brain barrier and the brain, also affect the gut, which then creates that more autoimmune thyroid attack.
Evan Brand: Well said. And there’s a lot of people that justify eating gluten to us. Whether it’s like organic wheat, or they’re doing some type of like sprouted wheat, or something like that. But gluten is gluten, and even if you’re not celiac – now there is research that shows that celiacs are gonna have30 times higher zonulin levels than a non-celiac. So massive, massive leaky gut in the celiac person in comparison.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.
Evan Brand: But still, we could even talk about the study. It’s Scandinavian Journal of Gastroenterology. It showed that gliadin, which is a gluten protein can affect zonulin even in people without the gene for celiac.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.
Evan Brand: And so basically they said, “All gliadin, regardless of what – whether you are celiac or not, it’s still going to activate zonulin, therefore leaky gut, therefore this LPS, these endotoxins are gonna get in there.”
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.
Evan Brand: Which is crazy. And – and I love that. I love that the science because then you and I aren’t the bad guys when we’re telling people to get rid of gluten. It’s like, “Look, here is the research.” Yeah, maybe you don’t get a – acne from gluten, but you still causing leaky gut, regardless. I love that we can actually prove that and it’s not just up for – it’s not just our opinion coz we’re the nutrition guys.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s the key thing that you mention there, Evan. The zonulin and the gluten can trigger the leaky gut and you may not necessarily have an autoimmunity, and the question is the more stressed you become, the more compromised you become, the more your toxic burden, your stress burden, the more your – the physical, chemical, emotional stress buckets get full. That’s where your body’s ability to adapt to stress really becomes inhibited. And again, the biggest mechanism really is, leaky gut. Even if you’re not necessarily gluten sensitive, you may be getting a leaky gut, which is adding stress to that stress bucket, right? It’s decreasing stomach acid; it’s decreasing enzymes; it’s increasing the ability to have food allergens; it’s increasing transfer infections and SIBO.Because the more your immune system is weakening the gut, the more that force field, that IgA gets lower, and the more critters can come in. So, yeah, 100%. And again a lot of people – I’m not a big fan of gluten because its, one: it’s hard to break down, it’s heavily pesticide, it’s low in nutrient density. A lot of the anthropological data shows that it’s been consumed only about 10,000 years ago, and the people that are consuming it typically have lower bodies – body stature, smaller in uhm – skeletal structure and increased risk for osteoporosis. Again, hunter gatherers tend to be more forgers uhm – starchy tubers, berries. Those kind of things, and obviously, meat and bone marrow. You study how the brain evolved. Really, it was the hand axe that allowed us to carve into bones and access bone marrow, and then creates spears to kill animals, and access that nutrients to grow our brains massively. Omega-3 is fat from the fish. So all of those things were huge in evolving our brain. Now, getting back to thyroid-We got a couple questions over here from the listener’s here on YouTube. So I’m gonna list a couple of. Couple is “how do you test autoimmunity?”Number one: kinda tying it back thyroid. We would look at TPO, or Thyroid Peroxidase antibodies or anti thyroid globulin antibodies; we’ll look for immune attack on the thyroid tissue. Also, we can look at TSI, immunoglubin, which is a marker for Graves’ disease, which is also a thyroid condition; or TSH receptor antibodies for the hyper- TSH receptor antibodies for the hyper; TSI for the hyper; and then TPO and thyroglobulin antibodies for the hypo. Now again, you can have the hypo antibodies, though, and have hyper symptoms initially. So you can kinda be on both stages at one point. So just kinda keep that in mind.
Evan Brand: And then more time, just so people are clear to that. Seems a bit confusing.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: A lot of people that start out with hyperthyroid – or sorry – hypothyroid antibodies, low thyroid function antibodies, the TPO and thyroglobulin bodies, even though those are markers for a hypo-, Hashimoto’s, they can progress into hyper- symptoms initially because your thyroid follicle have about four months of thyroid hormone stored in it. So what that means is, you can spill out that thyroid hormone many, many months before, even up to a year or so, before you actually get depleted and go low. And that’s where the TSH gets really high. TSH will go high as the thyroid gets depleted, but in the initial attacks, in the first year or so, you may feel more hyper- symptoms even though it is a hypo– Hashimoto thyroid mechanism that’s happening.
Evan Brand: Uh, got it. Well said. Okay. So, people may self-diagnose themselves with hyperthyroidism, your saying that it could actually be a hypo-caused by Hashimoto situation that’s going on. They just don’t feel the full effects yet coz it’s a new – it’s a new attack. Is that correct?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. So the symptoms they may have is irritability, anxiety, mood issues, difficulty sleeping, heart palpitations, uhm – they may have like tired but wired kinda feeling. Those are the big things that they’re gonna have. I would say, yeah, the anxiety is gonna be a big one. Difficulty sleeping is gonna be a big one. Where the hypo- symptoms star to come in, again you may still have anxiety; you may still depression. The big differences is you’re gonna start to see the hair thinning because thyroid hormones are needed for hair follicle growth. So the outer thirds of the eyebrows go; the hair starts to thin on top; cold hands and cold feet it starts to happen. You may start to see constipation issue, too. You may start to see your triglycerides and your cholesterol go up. Again, infections can cause constipation, too. Uh – increase insulin can also cause increase cholesterol and triglyceride, too. So there’s other things. But that’s a general indication, is the cold hands, cold feet, the fatigue, the hair loss, the constipation and the increase in lipids you’re gonna see. That’s why you wanna test full thyroid panel, which is gonna consist of TSH, brain hormone, T4,inactive thyroid hormone (free and total), T3, which is converted peripherally 20%, and 80% throughout the body (free and total) and obviously you T3 uptake. You can look at thyroid binding globulin, which can go up or down if you have PCOS or on birth control. And then also reverse T3 and all the antibodies I mentioned.
Evan Brand: Yes. So I’ve also16:19read about another one that I’ve not seen used very much called TRAB, thyroid stimulating hormone receptor antibody, but it says that the antibodies are only ordered when someone is hyper- . And a positive result for that usually means great. So I’m not seeing that one that often, though.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s just a different name for I think the TSH receptor antibodies. Like TPO also has a like a name called,microsomal antibodies. So again, typically it’s the same names. So TSH receptor antibodies that’s probably another name for that, just like the microsomal is the same name for TPO.
Evan Brand: Uhh. Okay, got it. Now should we talk about – Is this is the time we should talk about the link between infections and thyroid health? Because people that were looking at, we’re not just gonna look at thyroid, we’re gonna look at the gut, too. And the average between us is about 1 in 3 of having infections. You know, every third person is gonna show up with infection. Sometimes even – you know those weak. Sometimes it’s 9 out of every 10 people has a parasite or other infection.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. So we have a few questions coming on the uhm – YouTube Live board here that we’ll kinda tie in. But yes, so the big infections that can affect thyroid and can increase that thyroid autoimmunity: H. Pylori, okay, Yersinia, Enterocolitica, blasto, E. histo. Those are gonna be the big ones that are really gonna affect the thyroid. Even Lyme has a specific amino acid pattern that can create autoimmunity to the thyroid. So for sure, those are the big ones. You know, there’s been study showing that when you eradicate H. Pylori – It’s Italian study out there, that thyroid antibodies significantly drop. I have a video on blasto, right? Blasto infections are resolved, antibodies drop. Same with Yersinia, infections drop. As you attack Lyme, antibodies drop. So that can be a big stimulator and drive more leaky gut, more zonulin, more immune stress, which then creates more stomach acid and enzyme environments, which creates more adrenal stress, more thyroid stressed, and more nutrient deficiencies which perpetuate everything. So you can see, if don’t get to the root cause in this, that’s fine. You can go see your conventional medical doctor to make sure your TSH isn’t elevated, right? But in the end, you’re still gonna be suffering. And that’s why I have so many patients then I know you do as well that have all these symptoms. And I’ve seen a doctor for over a decade and are just tired of it. Alright, you know, this can’t just be my thyroid and all that we done is on 50 mics or 100 mics of Synthroid and that’s it. We can’t do anything else. They know there’s something more and that’s why they are reaching for people like you and myself, Evan.
Evan Brand: Yeah. Well in toolbox, it’s just not there, right. I mean, it’s not their fault. They’re just doing all that they’ve got. That’s the only tool in the – in the shed. The surgery or wait till you have some type of disease, or some big nodule, or a goiter or something crazy. And now, okay, now we have to do surgery.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And a lot of people are talking about, “Well, what if you don’t have antibodies coming back on your thyroid?” My personal take on that is, above 40% comeback false negative. So it’s negative, but it could be positive. So what does that mean? Well, typically I’ll run the antibodies on someone at least three or four times before I say that they probably don’t have – they probably don’t have an autoimmune issue – at least 3 or 4 times. Now, the gold standard is a biopsy. Still going with a needle aspiration, and they poke it into the thyroid, they’ll if the tissues have any lymphocyte infiltration. So there’s an immune response going into the thyroid. So you can also have – you know your conventional physician palpate it. They’ll typically reach around your neck. So here’s my Adam’s apple, so it’s down just maybe a centimeter, and then out 1 or 2 cm. So it’s right here. And then you can typically run your finger right across it, then you can touch and push from one side to the other, and just feel the surface. See if it’s smooth, and then you can swallow, and feel that structure. And you can feel like a little nodule or a little bump and that’s possible. A nodule can typically mean autoimmunity or can mean an iodine deficiency. You can go to your conventional physician for that. I talked about the needle aspir –aspiration, but I don’t recommend unless you have – must you really want to know a hundred percent. The next more conservative approach would be a thyroid ultrasound to see if there is any swelling at all. Yeah. And that will be – those will be – My first line of defense would be, “Alright, let’s do your antibodies.” Second line would be ultrasound. I typically wouldn’t recommend the needle biopsy unless you are more worried about the cancer side of it, right? If I’m more worried about cancer then we may do that, or we may do a thyroid scan. But again, those are more invasive. I really only want to see those if we’re trying to rule out cancer. Coz typically the ultrasound and the antibodies will be the best. And we know, uncontrolled Hashimoto’s can lead to cancer, right? It increases your risk of cancer. So everything we’re doing is actually decreasing someone’s thyroid from progressing to a mandibular, papillary, follicular cancer. That’s – that’s the goal. So regarding that piece, everything we’re doing is gonna work either way because we’re mitigating the gluten in the food; or reducing the infection load; or upping the nutrients to help lower antibodies and help the thyroid convert; or making all diet and lifestyle changes and getting rid of the infection, which are gonna help improve the thyroid conversion, activation, and the upstream signaling downstream.
Evan Brand: Early on in the chat, someone asked, “How should one read the cortisol lab test for adrenal fatigue?” “What numbers indicate the issue?” That’s gonna depend on the lab. Justin and I really like Biohealth, especially because they’ve got a brand-new test that were using now, which is six-point cortisol test. So any practitioners that are using a four-point cortisol test on you-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm. Yup.
Evan Brand: They’re outdated. They need to get with the –the times. With the 2017, six point is the new one. And how can you read the numbers? Well, typically there’s gonna be like a high patient line, a low patient line and then you would wannabe right in between those sandwich. And it’s gonna depend. So other labs are gonna have different – you know, different markers, different reference ranges. So for us to read a reference ranges to you, will be really boring. Uh – but basically long story short, you wanna be perfectly sandwiched in between those two lines. And it’s very rare that we see somebody in that. Most of the time we’re gonna see a low cortisol picture. And this is a low-free cortisol.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Exactly.
Evan Brand: They’re gonna be low pretty much all day. And this is for most people. And so, then we have to keep digging deeper.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.
Evan Brand: We don’t just throw them a bunch of adrenal support and say, “goodluck” We gotta figure out what – why is this happening? Is there a lot of emotional stresses, or chemical stresses, or thyroid issues, or parasites? And these are the other pieces of the puzzle.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. So you made some really good points there. So with the adrenal, the car test, the adrenal, the uhm – the cortisol-adrenal response, especially in the morning. Cortisol starts off low in that first initial bit of waking up, and really pops up in the first half-hour to one hour after waking. So Evan and I are looking more at those types of test to see how that cortisol awakening response is happening in the morning. Coz cortisol is so important for thyroid activation to prevent T3 pooling, which is T3 not getting into the cells, as well as to prevent reverse T3 up-regulation, right? Reverse T3 is the uh – the blanks. The blank bullets that fit into the magazine that prevent the real bullets from getting fired. The real thyroid hormone being the real bullets, upregulating your metabolism. So those are the things that we’re looking at. And I agree, cortisol, and low cortisol, and low thyroid can intimately feel the same, right? We have patients sometimes that will feel like, “hmm, do they have a thyroid issue or adrenal issue?” We’ll run both test and we’ll see their TSH is, let’s say: 1, 1.5; T3 is at 3, 3.2; and their conversion is okay. But we’ll see, “Oh, yeah” their cortisol awakening response is terrible. Their cortisol is low; their DHEA is depleted. If they’re female patient, their hormones are off, right? So we’ll see. We’ll be able to differentiate the two. And if you’re just going based of a symptoms, and trying to self-treat yourself, it’s gonna be really hard. You start going in one direction over the other. You may not get better. And a lot of patients, they instantaneously wanna go get their thyroid supported and treated first. The problem with that is, you increase thyroid hormone levels, and you already have lower cortisol. You can actually lower your cortisol even more, right? Just go google uhm – Addison’s disease, which is cortisol failure, right? – Addison’s disease, contraindications – And one of the contraindications you’ll see on their thyroid hormone because thyroid hormone can actually lower cortisol more. Coz think about it, right? Thyroid increases metabolism. The more your metabolism is increased, the more you metabolize through your hormones as well. So if we lower our hormones, and you are already at super low cortisol to begin with, you can actually feel worse as well. A lot of people feel worse when they just go after their thyroid and it can really create more problems.
Evan Brand: Wow. Now that you say that, I’m picturing a woman last week who, she was on Levothyroxine for a very long time. Her cortisol levels were like the lowest I’ve ever seen. So I wonder if it’s that drug that’s contributed to her cortisol being even lower than it would have been without the drug. What do you think?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. You can see patients that they go on their thyroid support, and they start feeling worse. And it’s just – it’s really difficult because if they’re seeing a functional medicine practitioner, they may lose faith in that person, right? And – and just say, “Hey, I’m just gonna keep on doing what I’m doing. I’m just gonna go back on the Synthroid.” So you have that aspect there, right? And then uhm – also have the fact that you know, what’s primary? A lot of people have in – the adrenal issue is the more primary issue. And if we start treating that first, then we may get the patient feeling better, which then creates more compliance. The more compliance, the more – the more the patient’s gonna follow through on diet, on lifestyle, on addressing infections. And that gives us a better chance to leverage the patients to do the right thing to heal.
Evan Brand: Well said. And plus, if the adrenals get back online, then we know that that conversion from T4 to T3 active is gonna be better. So they may not even need to go to the “thyroid support” if all these other root causes were the biggest thing. I mean it’s a parasite and an adrenal problem. If you fix those two things, is it possible you can get away with never going into, “Hey this is your thyroid program now. We just have to fix the other pieces.”
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Absolutely. So uhm – looking at that piece, you’re hundred percent right. I see so many patients, we’ll measure their thyroid temperature like their basal temperature. And again, for basal temps: 97.8 to 98.2 °F is gonna be where you wanna be for your armpit axillary temperature; and then98.2 to 98.6 °F is oral temperature. And typically do that in the morning before you get out of bed. And also do it sometime in the afternoon before you have lunch, and kinda do a general average. And again, a lot of people will be relatively low, and they’ll start to see their temperatures start going up uhm – as we treat the adrenals. One of the big things we see with the adrenals is we see an erratic temperature. The temperature is kinda bouncing around. Anything greater than .3°F can be – can lead to be a sign of a potential adrenal issue via a temp.
Evan Brand: Let me ask this. Let me ask this with you. So you’re saying, .3 difference. So that would mean if you woke up one day and you tested your armpit temperature, let’s say you were 98° flat in your armpit before you got out of bed, then the next day, you’re at 98.3. To you, that’s gonna signify thyroid and adrenal issues. Is that right?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So we went from 98 to 98.3?
Evan Brand: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. So it’d be greater than .3 So if you’re 98-98.4 and we’re consistently seeing this back-and-forth oscillation, so we’re seeing 98, 98.4 or 97.9 and it’s constantly bouncing back and forth greater than .3 that could potentially mean an adrenal issue, right? And because it’s erratic, but at a good level of temperature 97.8 or higher. So we typically mean of an adrenal issue. If we see it low and erratic, let’s say, 97, 97.4, 96.9 to 97.5, then that would potentially be an adrenal and a thyroid issue. And again, temperatures aren’t perfect, right? Like when we assess thyroid, there’s three indicators we use. We use subjective, which in my opinion is the most important. How do you feel? Do you have a lot more hyper- or hypo- symptoms, right? Hyper- symptoms being anxiety, palpitations, mood issues, tired but wired.
Evan Brand: What about sweating? Increased sweating?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: – sweating, irritability, difficult sleeping. Where the hypo- symptoms, again, you can still have the mood stuff; you can still have the anxiety and mood stuff; you can still have some tired and wired – some tired and wired
feeling but typically more tired, though. And then the big thing is the cold hands, the cold feet, the thinning hair, the thinning eyebrows, the constipation. Those are gonna be the big differences. And obviously what trumps any of it, is an increase in TSH or thyroid antibodies are gonna be the biggest distinguishing factor, if it’s TPO or TSH receptor antibodies.
Evan Brand: And I just wanna mention one thing, too. In a lot of cases, the people we’re working with are gonna have both hypo- and hyperthyroid symptoms which can be equally confusing.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. Yup. Equally confusing. I mean we look at like the test that we give our patients to assess that uhm – right? The other big one’s losing weight. Losing weight uhm – even though you’re – or unintentionally gaining weight if you’re on the hypo- side or unintentionally losing weight if you’re hyper- side, right? That’s gonna be another, another big one. Elevated cholesterol – another, another big one. So those are a couple of the other ones that I mention there where the anxiety, the excessively sweating, uhm – again, hands shaking, difficulty sleeping, uhm – feeling more warm on the hyper- side. Those are gonna be the other big ones. And obviously having a family history. If your mom, or your aunt, or uncle, or your sibling has a thyroid issue, right? That’s gonna be a big – just, you know, big factor. One of the big questions I do in all my intakes is, are there celiac disease or any autoimmunity that runs in your family? Whether it’s thyroid, or Parkinson’s or MS, or ulcerative colitis, or Chron’s or anything autoimmune related, type I diabetes. And if there is, that really gets me to hone in there. But testing for autoimmunity, conventional medicine typically does it like ANA, or HLA-B27, or an RA Latex like – these are like the conventional, like broad markers for like scleroderma, or like – or celiac, right? Or see, rheumatoid arthritis, or lupus. They’re very non-specific a lot of times. And again uhm – and they typically are late stage markers. It takes a while for them to pop-up. And again, a lot of people they may be asymptomatic and still have them. So it’s not a real motivating factor for a lot of people. Where some of the things we look at it with the thyroid antibodies, well even just a little bit above like the normal range. So like LabCorp, it’s 33 or 36 for the TPO. Where I think the thyro – the thyroglobulin antibody is anything greater than 1 is positive. So if we’re like at 1.5 or 2, you know – we will look at that and we’re gonna really push for autoimmune changes and autoimmune protocols. We see TPO going above 20, we’ll start to say, “Hey, you know, you wanna be careful with this.” And we’ll keep an eye on that. And then we have the – you know, people are on the thousands on the antibody levels. And we’ve made this change and I’ve seen 70, 80% drops. We take a patient from 2300 down to like 3 to 400, which is a massive drop.
Evan Brand: And so that’s diet, that’s lifestyle, removing infections, supporting adrenals. All those pieces, right?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Absolutely. And I got a question here on FacebookLive. I’ll try to connect it in here. And again, I apologize for Facebook Live listeners here. If you’re watching us there, check out the YouTube so you can actually see Evan. I’m gonna try to reiterate the questions so that you can hear it. Uhm – but that will be the best way to get the full conversation. Regarding uhm – question on Facebook Live, he’s talking about iron. Now, iron is really important coz it’s a really important building block for thyroid hormone. And we also need triiron for thyroid activation from T4 and T3, and we need it for just generally carrying oxygen to ourselves, which is really important for cellular metabolism. So if we have low iron levels that could be an issue. Now I did a full video this for people to get back to the iron video to get like the specifics on that. But again, typically we’ll recommend, like in my line, we use an Iron Supreme. It’s a Ferrous Bisglycinate. And we’ll do about 25 milligrams of iron, anywhere between 2 to 4 times a day to help support that. But also, we’ll figure out the root cause. Coz a lot of females, it’s excessive menstruation or hemorrhage. It could be vegetarian and vegan diets, or it could be the x factor of malabsorption from gut inflammation, to low stomach acid and enzymes and not being able to ionize minerals to an infection that’s stealing your minerals.
Evan Brand: Yeah. I’m so glad you brought that up because here I am thinking about myself, and the whole time, I had two parasite infections.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.
Evan Brand: I guarantee I have low stomach acid. I guarantee I had issues with iron absorption. And people, let’s say, even if you’re eating the best organic grass-fed beef, if you got an infection that is causing stress on the gut, therefore reducing stomach acid; therefore reducing the ability for you to cleave off those amino acids and iron from them – from the meat, you can still have trouble. And what about – what about ferritin, too? Because the iron storage protein, that’s what we’re gonna test. For many times, you’re gonna see, especially women have very, very low ferritin levels where – and you’ve got a woman with ferritin levels you know – in between say 20 and 40. You may be experiencing something like breathlessness, for example. You could definitely have hair loss falling out. Sometimes I’ll hear women say when their ferritin is about 20, let’s say their hair is falling out in clumps. So you wanna get ferritin, which is the iron storage protein. You gotta get that levels tested, too. And we like people to get up, you know, 60, 70, 80 with ferritin just to ensure that – that iron storage protein is actually working. Now – and this is something that I haven’t looked at very often, but I’m curious if you know Justin, if you’ve got low ferritin, are you always going to have low iron as well? Or is it possible that with low ferritin, your iron could still check out okay?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So with lower ferritin, iron serum can pop up, and it can pop up because – imagine like ferritin is like the gasoline that’s in the gas tank, right? And then think of like iron serum is like the iron is actually in the carbonator and then the piston’s ready to be – ready to be combusted, right? So one’s like – iron is like, what’s ready to go that’s in the actual engine and carbonator; and ferritin is like, what’s in the gas tank, right? So obviously the more important one is gonna be what’s in the gas tank coz that gives you the bigger picture, right? You don’t care, you know how much – how much engines – how much fuel’s in the carbonator. It will only take you maybe a couple of hundred meters, maybe a mile. I don’t know, I’m not a big car guy, so – But keep that in the back of your mind. Now the difference is your body has a little bit more of an interplay with other systems. So inflammation can increase iron serum. So that’s why we look at ferritin, but then we’ll also look at it with iron saturation, too. We see iron saturation low, below 25, when we see TIBC or UIBC on the higher side, that means your binding proteins are growing more and more fingers – to have more iron. And if we see iron serum up, then we’ll be like, “hmm, maybe there’s some inflammation” We may wanna look at C-reactive protein, right? We may want to look at some of those inflammatory markers. Uhm – if we’re running a gut test, you may look at lactoferrin or calprotectin and see it – inflammation is occurring in the gut. So it really depends on what else is happening in the body. Does that make sense?
Evan Brand: Yeah. It does – it does. So, if you had to pick one or the other. Let’s say, somebody only gave you the option to run some of the specific iron markers or ferritin, what would you pick? For me, I think – I feel like I’ pick ferritin, if I could only pick one.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I mean, ferritin for sure. But an iron panel is like 30 bucks. There’s no reason –there’s no reason why anyone should nickel-and-dime on that because you don’t wanna compromise $30 getting a complete picture. So I think we run it. We keep doing it for 30 bucks and that’s everything.
Evan Brand: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And that gives you the ferritin, the iron serum, and that gives you the UIBC, the TIBC, the iron stat. So then you have a real complete picture of what’s happening. And then you know, even just looking at someone’s CBC can be helpful coz you can look at red blood cells, hemoglobin, hematocrit and if that’s starting to go low, then we can look at MCH, MCB, MCHC, which is basically markers to see how big your red blood cells are, right? Smaller red blood cells typically mean iron issues; bigger red blood cells typically mean B12, folate and B6 issues.
Evan Brand: Wow. There’s another question. Actually there’s a comment up here by Tonya. She was talking about how she was able to eat gluten and dairy now after she had infections. And I guess she treated those, and now she’s able to eat gluten and dairy. I feel like that depends on the person. Me, personally even if I could get away with it, I still wouldn’t do it because you’re still gonna increase zonulin and leaky gut. Potentially set yourself up for future infections.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. That’s the problem, right? Disaster doesn’t occur in –a day or a week, right? And we know that leaky gut can still happen even without the symptoms, right? We – there’s just been studies where they’ve given people pieces of gluten and they measured symptoms, they didn’t see necessarily an increase in symptoms or negative side-effects. But they saw this increase in zonulin and leaky gut because of it. Now we know that when that happens, you increase your risk of having other issues. So I know there are people right now, we get the same conversation. We’ll be talking to people that have been able to smoke cigarettes and not get lung cancer. Okay, great. Now, does that mean that you’re gonna go out and recommend smoking cigarettes to anyone? No. It’s still not gonna be beneficial. It’s still gonna be inflammatory. It still increases your risk. You don’t know who the people are that are gonna have the negative effects to begin with, right? It’s all like you have that looking glass that you can see in know. And also uh – you don’t know down the road when stress comes on and other things happen. Coz usually it’s not just one thing. It’s like, “great, now this person who’s talking – their stress bucket, they’re already filling it halfway.” So they’re going into with a half-full of stress bucket thinking that they’re okay, right? Alright. So, I got a half full of stress bucket. So now when other things come into their life, they’re gonna overflow faster.
Evan Brand: Agreed.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And then also – and also other people, that may overfill their stress bucket right away. And so that’s why you have to make sure that you know that some people may be the exception to the rule. They aren’t the rule. And this is where it’s –We have the advantage, Evan, because we see so many thousands of people that we can make correlations and can actually even see causation because we make changes and we see direct changes in the person’s physiology and their symptoms are getting better. So we can’t make – we can’t create all these protocols for the exception to the rule coz there are so many exceptions. There are people that smoke and don’t get cancer, alright? We know that. People that may consume gluten and may be okay, but the majority may have issues. Or they may set themselves up in increased stress bucket, right? Meaning increase their ability to handle less stress, so that when more stress comes on, boom, now they’re laid up.
Evan Brand: Exactly. Yeah. Tonya we had to put you on the chopping block there because for you commenting about saying gluten and dairy and you can get away with it now. You’re speaking for thousands of people that listen and do the same thing. And Justin and I will look at the symptoms of someone, and if there are still health complaints that haven’t been resolved, then let’s say we get the retest on GI-MAP stool test, and we look at antigliadin and antibodies, and I caught the lie detector test. I don’t know if you do, Justin. But it’s uh – when you get the antigliadin antibodies, it’s like, okay, one of three things happen. Either you’ve got gluten, you ate gluten, or you’ve got cross reactivity going on. And so, even if your symptoms are not supposedly there, your body is still fighting internally. There is still this internal battle going on, which is not what we want because then those antibodies can get confused and start attacking other tissues, which we don’t want.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And it’s tough because there are people that we see eat a diet that is you know – highly processed with a lot of carbs. And their blood sugar is relatively okay. And that maybe because they’re naturally more insulin sensitive, or they exercise more. And we see some people that eat the same diet, and they’re diabetic. So what do you do? Like I can’t sit there, and say, “well this person who eats this way isn’t diabetic” that means that diets is fine. No, it’s not. You have to look at the greater picture. You also have to look at what – does that diet now, is it nutrient dense? Is it anti-inflammatory? Is it low in toxins? And no, it’s not. But again, don’t get me wrong. Like dairies are open-ended topic, right? Ghee may be perfectly great. Butter maybe perfectly great. Raw milk may be perfectly great for some people. But then we go to the pasteurized dairy, we go into more of the yogurts, which could be great, but it may not be. So do – we have to kind of uhm – can have a criteria for all those different compounds, right? Because some dairy may be okay, some may not be okay. And sometimes bread, too. Some people may do okay with bread over in Europe. Or they’ll do fine with sourdough bread coz it’s fermented and has less gluten in it versus, let’s say, wheat bread here that’s conventional. So you got to look at it, too. Some of those things may be okay and may have to be more specifically talked about.
Evan Brand: Yup. She commented back. She says, we’re missing the point. If parasite is the cause, you can go back to the way you were, prior to eating – oh the way you were prior, like eating gluten. We as people, ate gluten for a millennia and now it is the cause of all ills. I’ll comment on it first, and then I’ll let you say something about it. In the modern world, we have a lot more toxins. We have a lot more things that we’re up against, and so gluten, where maybe only would have change someone’s health 2 or 3% 5000 years ago, now, has the ability to modify someone, tell 50 or 75, or even80% in some cases. We’ll see 80% of symptoms get better without it. So for me, comparing millennia to the modern world, we’ve never had a world like today. So it’s just not really a valid argument.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And the grains aren’t even like– If you look at the biblical grains, they talked about in the diet, and Dr. William Davies totally debunks this. If you look at the grains 2,000 years ago, reference in the bible, these are 12 chromosome uh – grain products versus the ones that they have right now, they’re hybridized and genetically modified, they’re up to 50 chromosomes. The gluten content is much higher and is also the extra stress of potential GMO nutrients, poor soils, as well as pesticide exposure. So it’s not quite the same way. Plus, people have to look at it from this perspective, if you drive around on your car, and you get a flat tire on your car, right? And you change the tire and you put the little – let’s forget that. Let’s just say you’re driving around on that flat tire for like a year, okay? So the flat tire is the cause of what’s happening here. But you drive around the flat tire for a year. That’s like ignoring the stressors of your health. It could be gluten. It could be parasite. But the longer you drive around on the flat tire, the more you front angles out of alignment; the more your suspension goes out of whack; the more your whole shock system in the car becomes stressed. And even if you decide, let’s say a year later, I’m gonna change that tire and put on a nice, fresh tire, which is like cutting out the gluten, managing stress, managing sleep, your car has been compromised where just changing the tire won’t fix it. You’re gonna have to go in for a full frontal alignment. You may have to get your tires rotated; you may need new shocks; your brake pads may have worn unevenly. There’s so many other issues that may happen with the car that where collateral damage from that flat tire being ignored. So just because you, let’s say, it was a parasite issue, and the parasites are now gone; or it’s a gluten issue, and the gluten’s now gone, doesn’t mean you now have nutritional deficiencies; doesn’t mean your enzymes and HCL are now effective; doesn’t mean your thyroid and your adrenals hormone system are now stressed; doesn’t mean your detoxification systems are now stressed, right? So this is what is happening. And other analogy is you’re in debt for 5 years. Great. You stop – you curtail your spending habits but you don’t get out of the hut – but you don’t get 100 grand out of debt by just changing your spending habits today. You need a bailout, or you need a lot more time just to start saving and get that money back up. Does that make sense, Evan?
Evan Brand: Yeah. Or the analogy of the spider web.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.
Evan Brand: Where there’s other pit of the web that’s affected, too. So for example, we can use me as an example. You look at me when uh – first time I came to your house. You’re like, “Evan, man, you look like you get a parasite.” You just- you just saw it. And I was like, “okay” It’s been a year plus since I’ve eradicated those infections, but I still am using enzymes and HCL because I was in such hypochloridic state that I still need to use supplemental HCL and supplemental enzymes. And I don’t really have an end date in mind where I’m not going to use enzymes because if I’m busy, or If I feel like I’m just not chewing my food as much as I should, to me, I like that nutritional insurance policy in place.
Uhm – there’s another question too that Chris asked earlier. He said, “not to be the dead horse, but isn’t there another marker to show autoimmunity of failsafe?” I guess since he’s asking because a lot of times –
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I already answered that one with the ANA and the conventional ones.
Evan Brand: Oh, okay.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And then the TPO. And also the gliadin antibodies be the stool testing we do. And then there’s uh – a test by Cyrex Lab that looks at leaky gut, which could give you a predisposing marker, where it looks at zonulin and occludin toxins which can open up the tight junctions. So that one will be another one when I look at.
Evan Brand: It’s pricey. Have you run that one often? The Cyrex, I mean, it’s like 600 bucks.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I’m not a big fan of that because it doesn’t tell me any of the cause. So if people have infections and their diet is not good, and they have – we’re seeing a low stomach acid and low enzyme environments, it’s not worth it. We just kinda work on treating the cause and then a lot of times, the clinical picture changes. Peoples bloating in gas and all these symptoms improved, which we know that means their digestion is getting better, their absorbing more nutrients. That means there has to be a leaky gut mechanism happening. I’m a bigger fan of looking at causal test versus the effect test. The effect tests are only good if you’re trying to convince someone or that people are skeptical. But once – people that are coming to see us are very intelligent because they’ve already educated themselves. They listen a lot to podcast. They read lots of blogs. They watch a lot of videos. They already get it. They don’t need to be convinced. They just wanna be fixed. So it’s a different mindset with those people.
Evan Brand: Agreed. Well said. And we don’t have people that need to be convinced they have leaky gut. Most of the time, they’ve already self-diagnosed themselves. In many cases, you don’t need to spend – I’d say99.9% of the cases, you don’t need to spend the money on a blood test that’s gonna say you have leaky gut. We could just list off symptoms – boom boom boom. Yeah, you probably got leaky gut. Cyrex, for their food sensitivity test, that is – that is cool one, but even then I feel like it’s a unnecessary in most cases because if you and I are gonna put somebody on like a AIP approach, let’s say thyroid disease did show up, some Hashimoto’s. We’ll have to go AIP and maybe we could try to reintroduce things. But they’re gonna be able to be a better barometer of Austin than the test in most cases. Like, “Oh when I added dark chocolate back in” or “when I added dairy back in” and this is what happen. I feel like that’s more valuable than a blood test.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.
Evan Brand: Totally.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We’ll do a full autoimmune elimination protocols and it’s gonna be very valuable for 90% of people. We’ll go an autoimmune diet, cutting out nuts, seeds, nightshade, eggs, obviously grains, legumes, dairy. And again, for people that are like the gluten fans that are on the message board here, they still aren’t nutrient dense food. If you look at the nutrients, if you look at the other compounds that aren’t gluten-related, right? Let’s look at the fact that some people are intolerant. They just can’t break it down because they’re missing the enzymes to do that. And that any time the food is not broken down, it can create stress in the body just like people that can’t break down lactose. They’re lactose intolerant and then they have diarrhea and bloating. So, some people just may be intolerant to breaking down the protein. Some people may be increasing inflammation because of the lectins and the phytic acid and then the oxalates that are just shutting mineral absorption. Other people may be having the autoimmune issue. So it’s still not a nutrient dense anti-inflammatory low toxin food. It’s not like there’s this missing nutrient that you can get out of gluten or out of these grains that you can’t get in some really awesome nutrient rich vegetables or healthy fruits with –or healthy starchy tubers. Does that make sense?
Evan Brand: Yeah. It does. Now – this is off-topic. But –
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s not a missing link. That’s my thing. If people had to say that – we – could show me a nutrient density chart and say, “But Dr. J, you get these nutrients, or the zinc and this is amazing or this, B vitamins”. I’d say, “Okay, but there’s not that evidence that it’s there.
Evan Brand: Right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Now a great – a great talk on this uhm – what’s his name, out of Harvard there – Matt Lalonde did a great talk at the Ancestral Health Symposium at 2012 on nutrient density. I highly recommend anyone watching that. But when you look at the nutrient density that you’re gonna get in meats, especially organ meats, it’s insane. It just destroys grains. And grains are the lowest out of all those foods.
Evan Brand: Yeah. Now, we’re – we’re off-topic from the thyroid, but that’s fine because I love that’s it’s a dynamic conversation.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It connects in, right? Because-
Evan Brand: It does.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -nutrients help in thyroid conversion, they help with thyroid activation, they help with the adrenal, which helps the thyroid cells. Even though we’re off-topic, we’re gonna do our best to kind of meander our way back to the thyroid.
Evan Brand: Yeah. Now, what I was gonna say was a bit off- topic, which is – well all you’re saying is totally on topic but what I’m gonna say is it’s funny how even some of these professional healthcare companies are now designing supplements, which I’m not gonna even give them the credit of naming these products. But there are gluten supplements out there, where it’s like, “here, go eat gluten, but then here is this enzyme or here’s this XYZ supplement to where you can still try to eat gluten, but you just take these pills with them instead.” It’s like, that’s ridiculous. That’s like covering up the engine light in your car. The light’s still there, but here’s this magic tape that’s gonna hide it. I just don’t think supplements that enable you to eat gluten is a good idea.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Now, here’s the deal, right? If you have thyroid antibodies, if you know – if you have objective measures of autoimmune issues, or your heightenly celiac sensitive, another word is – almost like – almost like if you have gluten, like you’re laid up, like you’re just – you’re junk for days on it, I don’t ever recommend cheating with gluten. If you can manage, if you’re really healthy, and you don’t have severe thyroid or antibody markers popping up, then you could try going gluten-free you know, right? It maybe rice, or corn may be okay. If you do that, I typically recommend the enzymes, like the DPP-4 enzymes and we’ll take it with charcoal. But it’s a cheat, and we’re just trying to mitigate it. And we wouldn’t wanna ever do that as a staple to allow ourselves to eat gluten. Now, like myself, like maybe once year, like if I’m in Boston and I’m in the north end, I may have like a cannoli, but I found an alternative uh –modern bakery and get some gluten-free ones that are white flour-based. But if I go, I mean I’ll up the DPP-4 enzymes, increase the charcoal, and the vitamin C in the knack. And that will help me deal with it. Uhm – but again, that’s like – if you look at it, the 2000 meals I have a year, you know – maybe one or two have that in there, right? Not a lot. We’re talking .001% But people who are really, really sensitive or having gut over their health issues, initially you really wanna be puritanical. And then – I’ll kinda dovetail this with Johnny’s question here. Some of the testing that I will do to fine tune, if like patients are on the autoimmune, they kinda reintroduce things back in and they’re still having issues, and not quite sure what works, there will be some testing we’ll do like an MRT is a pretty good test. I’m liking the ELISA / ACT test as well coz it’s not just antibodies, it’s looking at various lymphocytes, too. And I do a combination of the ELISA and I’m – I’m kinda testing the MRT as well. And I’ll actually be doing some blind testing and sending some uh – different vials in with different people with actually my blood on with different names. I’m doing some blind testing on that. So hopefully I’ll do a video on that.
Evan Brand: You ought to try the, if you have it already, I believe it’s the Array 2. And there’s a couple of other Arrays form Cyrex, too. I’m a bigger fan of that than the MRT.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well the problem with Cyrex, though, it’s only looking at Ig or IgA – that’s the issue. So with the ELISA, it’s also looking at T-cell lymphocyte response and you’re not gonna get that picked up on Cyrex. That’s the big issue. And if you’re not exposed to gluten, let’s say we’re doing this test, and “yeah, I haven’t eaten gluten in a month or a couple of months” Well, if the immune system isn’t responding to it coz it’s not being exposed to it, it won’t come up in the test.
Evan Brand: Uhhh.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And people will be like, “Oh, look, I’m fine.” But may not be the case. So you have to look at it in a complete spectrum.
Evan Brand: That makes sense. So the ELISA / ACT.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh- hmm.
Evan Brand: And that’s blood.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s blood. Exactly.
Evan Brand: Cool. That sounds great. Well, I feel like we should probably wrap this up. I know this has been a lot of information uhm – if people are interested in your book, then they need to sign up for your email list. I mean – you’re so passionate about thyroid health, it’s definitely infectious. And do we have a date on that? Of this thyroid book? What’s up with that?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s done, man. I’m shooting it up to the editor. So we can buff it out and – and you know, I read all – every thyroid book on the market, I pretty much read. And my biggest issue is, you can summarize every thyroid book in like 5 pages.
Evan Brand: I know.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So I want a book that’s shorter. It’s more condensed. I want every page to be neat. I want every page to be __I want every page to have like action items. People can walk away and really improve their health and then throughout – in a standstill, they can reach out to people like myself and you, to kinda like get to the next level. So that’s where I’m at right now – to fine tune and boil it down. I want to touch just one question. Dale mentioned it earlier, he talked about mercury. And mercury is an important aspect coz mercury can pinch it and affect the thyroid. There’s this study showing that lowering mercury can decrease thyroid antibodies. I have one patient that had thyroglobulin antibodies over 2000 and we saw the antibodies drop below 100. So we saw a 99% drop in antibodies by removing mercury. So we’ll test that. We’ll do challenge test via urine and we’ll use various provocation agents like DMPS, which is 2, 3 dimer propanoic acid, or we’ll do uh – 2, 3 dimer succinic acid, which is DMSA. Or we can even do EDT as well. But I typically do the DMPS challenge and we’ll be able to provoke that and see what’s coming out from the mercury. That can be a big, big uh – kind of underlying revealer of another aspect of what could be driving an autoimmunity, which is the mercury. And again, I know you’ve done the shade testing which looks at urine unprovoked, hair, and blood. Not a big fan of hair and because they don’t tell you an active or chronic uhm – a chronic level. Doesn’t give you a tissue burden. And also, there’s study showing that people that push more mercury out on the hair actually have better detox pathways, and they measure people who push less mercury on the hair, and they actually found that they had more provoked mercury in the urine even though they push less out in the hair, partly because their detox pathway is impaired.
Evan Brand: Wow. I’m gonna try yours coz it sounds like it sounds like I could be getting some numbers that are not what they actually are. I wonder what other heavy metals are impacting this, too? I wonder if cadmium, for example, or aluminum is also gonna impact thyroid. It seems like all heavy metals potentially could. Or do you think it’s specific to mercury. Mercury’s gonna be the biggest?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well mercury is definitely gonna be the biggest coz it’s one of the second or third most toxic compounds in the world. It’s really bad. So that one. Obviously lead is gonna be really bad, too. Because lead and mercury interplay, right? If you look at the lethal dose of one – if you take uhm – the dose, you get hundred rats lined up, and you figure out, you keep on titrating the mercury dose up. So the first rat dies out of a hundred. So you titrate the mercury up, the first rat dies, right? That’s called the – the lethal dose of one, right? The 1, the 1% that kills – the dose of 1% of that kills. And you do that for mercury and lead, so you have the hundred rats, right? One dies of mercury, right? You increase the lead up here or one dies of lead. And you now combine the mercury and lead those together to all 100 rats, they all die. Did you get that?
Evan Brand: Yeah, I sure did.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So what they’re saying is even though it only kills one of here over a hundred and the lead over here kills one out of a hundred, but when you combine it together, and gives it all to 100, all of them die. Meaning that, these metals are synergistically connected and can have exponential effects when added. So if you see mercury and lead together, typically the compounds that we’re using, are gonna be specific to mercury and lead for sure. So you don’t have give a special one for mercury and a special one for lead, right? So you give it and it would globally affect mercury and lead and typically cadmium, as well. And we’d also wanna give extra binders. Crochet talks about this like MC but MCT like modified citrus pectin, MCP actually. Uh – we’d also give maybe charcoal or bentine clays. We’d also use things like chlorella, especially for mercury. And we’d also use things to support detoxification. So in my line, we use heavy metal clear and then we also use DMPS and we use a lot of sulfur amino acid support to run phase 2 detoxification, as well.
Evan Brand: And still eat your broccoli, folks.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, yeah. Your cruciferous are gonna be really important for your DIM and Indole-3-Carbinol which all help run phase 2 detoxification.
Evan Brand: Awesome.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, anything else here? Any other questions we wanted to run to? Uh – on the YouTube live here, anything else we can answer?
Evan Brand: I think that was everything.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think we hit it all up pretty well. Oh, I didn’t touch upon this. Let me just hit it real quick. Iodine. Iodine is a really important nutrient for the Iodination process to make thyroid hormone, right? If you look at the T, the T typically stands for- some people say thyroid or tyrosine. And then the 4 number is the Iodine. So you have the Iodination process and then you have the 5 prime, the iodinase that comes in there and it grabs and pulls off an iodine, and activates it and makes it T3. Well, that enzyme that activates thyroid hormone is selenium dependent and comes from the liver. So healthy liver function is really important. But having adequate iron uhm – adequate iron level as well is important, but having adequate iodine is also important. RDA is about 150 to 200 µg a day to at least prevent goiter. Now some people may need more than that. Now you have people like Brown Steen and other doctors that are going super, super high, 2550 mg a day. I’m very, very cautious of doing any high-dose iodine. I have seen too many patients uhm – like literally just lose their hair. Like just like gaps, like handfuls come out and their thyroid has gotten worst. Number one, like if we give iodine and they have autoimmunity, it’s typically months later after we’ve stabilized the gluten, stabilized the adrenals, supporting thyroid, supporting nutrients, supporting the gut, get their diet in shape, get their digestion better and then we’ll start very low and we’ll gradually work them up. But we’ll be checking in, we’ll be monitoring it and we’ll be doing very low doses and then gradually tapering it up or also making sure there’s enough selenium there, enough B vitamins, enough minerals, enough vitamin C. So we’ll make sure there’s a lot of other cofactors coz when you give iodine, it can spit out hydrogen peroxide, which can increase D cell lymphocyte infiltration into the thyroid. So it can exacerbate autoimmunity. So if we do it, we’re doing it responsible. We’re doing a lower RDA doses as a starting point and then gradually working our way up from there.
Evan Brand: So what about working with foods at the same time? So I’ve heard some people, anti-kelp people out there. And I don’t know why there’s some anti-kelp people.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, I think you just gotta be careful with kelp just because just coz where it’s coming from, the whole Fukushima disaster two years back.
Evan Brand: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -radiation. So just gotta be careful. There are some really good sources out there. You gotta make sure it’s not coming from one of those places and number two, there’s a whole list of foods that you can give. Typically, like in my multi- there’s gonna be at least the RDA there, which is great.
Evan Brand: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Egg yolks are gonna have some iodine as well. Uhm- obviously seaweeds have some good iodine sources. You just have to make sure that it’s not gonna be the Fukushima kind. I’ll get a list right here. I’ll read out a couple of foods that are really high in iodine in just one second.
Evan Brand: I’ve heard strawberries, too, which is interesting. And then I also wonder – it’s hard to get a composition sheet for a Himalayan pink salt. I wonder if you’re gonna get any iodine from pink salt or not?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I mean there’s some maybe some trace amounts there. I know iodized salt; 1 gram will have about 77 µg. There are some research showing that increased iodize salt consumption did increase autoimmunity. And it could just be that these are the general public. They’re just taking it, they already have a poor diet, and they don’t have the selenium, and the B’s, and the minerals, and the vitamin C in the background. And maybe that’s why that happened. So it’s hard to say. So there are studies on that showing there could be an issue. But things like cod, right? Things like shrimp, uh – things like turkey. Even some navy beans, even some tuna, even some eggs are gonna have some good iodine. I mean one egg is gonna have 12 to 15 µg iodine. So if you do 4 eggs a day, that’s about 60. You got a good multi- that will be 150. Uhm – you have some fish, you got some other food, now you’re like at 3, 400µg. Now you may need to go higher, but you had to work with physician or functional medicine practitioner to be monitoring the antibodies and make sure you have all ducks in a row first, before you go there.
Evan Brand: Yeah. I mean there’s people that will just start covering themselves in iodine. And so that could be a bad idea, you’re saying, coz you could actually increase antibodies, right?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally can increase antibodies. Uhm- you gotta be careful with that.
Evan Brand: I’m not – for some reason iodine, one of those things and kind of the eggs will call the natural health community that is – it’s been portrayed as very benign. And I remember even in some of the – the classes I was taking down in Austin, I remember a girl in class, she like paints everyday, she was painting her arm with iodine. And she was like, “it’s the greatest nutrient ever.” I was like, “Oh, my Lord. This is out of control.”
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well painting on your skin for the most part, 80% of it evaporates.
Evan Brand: Uh-huh.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: The only time I recommend painting it on your skin is if you have fibrocystic breast disease uh – you have a lot of cyst and painful breast tissue. Painting it on the breast tissue can be great coz you’re driving the iodine right into the localized spot, where there’s the cyst, which could help. But outside of that, I mean, if you have –if you need iodine systemically for your body and for your thyroid function, you wanna take it in – in your body. And typically do a liquid potassium iodide.
Evan Brand: So she wasn’t – She probably wasn’t making herself toxic then. She was just turning herself uh – brown.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. 80% of it – you know, the iodine pass test, like the faster it evaporates, meaning the more your body absorb it; the slower it evaporates the more iodine you have. It’s very crude measurement, right? The better test is gonna be like Hakala or I think doctor stated, there’s an iodine loading test. I think it’s 25 to 50 mg of iodine then you test uhm – your urine and see how much GPL. So the goal is, if you pee 90% or more, it means your iodine levels are saturated; if you pee less than 90%, right? You pee less than 90% that means your body grab more of that iodine. So it’s – you’re essentially low. That’s the theory on that. 90% and more, you’re okay; less than 90, you’re low.
Evan Brand: Uhh. That’s interesting.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: But again, regarding iodine, you gotta do it responsible – responsibly. If you’re – think of iodine gasoline on the fire.
Evan Brand: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Gasoline is not bad when you put it in your car. But if your car is on fire, and you start putting gasoline in your car, you can create problems, obviously, right? That’s what’s kinda happening in your thyroid. You wanna look at everything holistically. And you want the body system approach that Evan and I use, the key three, looking at the hormones, ATF( adrenals, thyroid, female hormones); ATM (adrenals, thyroid, male hormones), gut and infections, putting nutrients, digestion, better food, allergies, and then looking at detox and nutrients, as well.
Evan Brand: Yup. Well said. Go to justinhealth.com to schedule consultation with Justin. Check out the thyroid videos series. He’s got hormone videos series, too. You’ve got the supplement line there. And then, you could check out my stuff, too, notjustpaleo.com or you could just google either of us. Justin, or Dr. Dr. Justin Marchegiani. Evan Brand. You’ll find us both. And stay tune because this is really fun. And I don’t know about you, but I’m loving this. I think maybe 3 to 5 times more than just doing an off-air podcast coz people are asking questions. And it’s like shaping and structuring this.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: This little organic podcast ball.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I love it. We love the questions. We like just having this little kinda dialogue back and forth and “ooh, someone responds over here, let’s see what they said” and we kinda see if we can interject it into the conversation. That’s great. Totally m__we’re on the fly.
Evan Brand: Love it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Like impromptu, right? It’s like we’re on the stage, doing a little impromptu podcast.
Evan Brand: There’s no cuts; there’s no edits; there’s no –
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Overall man, this is it.
Evan Brand: This is – this is the real deal. This isn’t – there’s not a makeup person coming in and touching you up here. I mean this is the real deal.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I know. If you guys are liking this, we’re gonna do it a lot more. We just need thumbs up; we need likes; we need shares; show us the love. Go like Evan’s channel. Share the podcast. And then we’re gonna do more of this, and get everyone’s questions answered, and just provide more value. Like how could we provide more value to our listeners and improve your health.
Evan Brand: Yeah. And I think I mentioned it already. But if you wanna schedule a consult with Justin, just go to the website, justinhealth.com you could schedule the consults there. And same thing for me, notjustpaleo.com and we’ll chat with you all next week. And let’s do something next week, maybe – maybe on like clinical success stories we’re having in the practice.
Evan Brand: Well that means they’re coming in –
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And just like, maybe go over our top 3 stories of the week. Coz we see – you know, so many patients. We can pick out 3 easily.
Evan Brand: Well, yeah. I thought of something, too. Uh- actually, a woman who was struggling with fertility is now pregnant. And I figured, getting her on and talking about her story with parasites and how her fertility was compromised due to the infections. Getting her on the air, maybe asking them– we have to make it fun for them, too.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: For them to take time out of it, get them to share their story and just kinda talk them through what we did. I think that’s- that’s the most remarkable part of all this, is getting to hear the feedback, which a lot of people, they’re not getting to hear the stories. And this is what keeps us motivated and keeps us going.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I love it, Evan. That sounds awesome, man. Well, let’s connect real soon, brother.
Evan Brand: Take care.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You take care. Bye now.
Evan Brand: Bye.
Food Allergies and Joint Pain | Linkage
By Dr. Justin Marchegiani
Food Allergies and Joint Pains
The body can be allergic to any food, therefore any food allergy is capable of causing inflammation and arthritis
Most doctors who are specialized in treating arthritis and many other joint conditions tend to rely on medications that only address the symptoms and not the underlying cause of the actual problem. Many patients who go to a rheumatologist for joint pain are prescribed medications that have dangerous side effects where in the short term may help but in the long term provide more harm than benefit.
In the last five years of seeing patients with joint pain, I find many patients respond to simple nutritional and dietary changes. As a foundation, removing certain inflammatory foods that aggravate the immune system as well as the joints can make a big difference.
Medications do nothing more than mask the symptoms of pain and at the time contribute to other issues such as gastrointestinal and liver problems. These medications also cause mineral deficiencies such as folic acid, vitamin C, and other nutrients which aggravate the problem the drugs were prescribed for originally. These nutrients are very important for helping joints, ligaments, tendons to heal properly.
While you’re on a medication in hopes of it fixing your joint pain, you are actually setting yourself up for more long-term severe joint pain in the future. Addressing the underlying cause of where the inflammation is coming from is the best way to get to the root of the problem.
The vicious cycle in summary:
Autoimmunity is an underpinning:
Common inflammatory foods:
All grains including wheat, barley, rye, oats, corn, rice, millet, sorghum etc.
Night shades (potato, eggplant, tomato, peppers, tobacco).
Legumes (peanuts, soy, beans)
Wild caught fish and or fish oil
Grass fed meat
Lower glycemic fruits such as berries
Non-starchy vegetables such as broccoli, cauliflower, spinach and asparagus
Herbs like turmeric, garlic, ginger