Amino Acids can help Brain Chemistry, Depression and Anxiety Problems

By Dr. Justin Marchegiani

About twenty percent of the human body is made up of protein. Protein plays a crucial role in almost all biological processes. The building blocks of our protein is what we call our amino acids. And so today’s video is going to be on amino acids and brain chemistry. 

Again, I had a podcast recently over at Beyond Wellness Radio. Check out Beyond Wellness Radio for a little bit more in-depth discussion. I’m going to go into some different nuances we didn’t really cover in that podcast.  I’m going to break it down on how amino acids can make a difference. I will compare just the conventional and the natural treatment options. It will also include getting to the root cause without all the side effects.

amino acids and brain transmitters

Protein Composition

Amino acids are the breakdown of proteins.  So imagine protein is like the pearl necklace.  So, here’s our necklace and you can see when the necklace is complete, this is your protein.  And the amino acids are nothing more than one link in that necklace.

The protein has to get broken down into the amino acids and then the amino acids can get converted into the neurotransmitters, NT.  So the breakdown is protein to amino acids to neurotransmitters.  And there’s a lot that happens to get this broken down into this.

When we’re under stress, we can take a lot of this and we can shoot it downstream to glucose.  You’re going to see here, we can take a lot of our amino acids even dopamine, and we can even shuttle it downstream into adrenalin.  So we have to be a careful with that because we can easily burn through our amino acids easily.

Digging deeper, we have tyrosine or L-tyrosine, which can get converted into Dopa.  Dopa is the intermediary between L-tyrosine and dopamine.  And you can see the enzymes and the nutrients that are involved in this conversion are essential.


Going back to the chemistry of an anemic person, we will consider the following: low red blood cell count, low hematocrit, low haemoglobin or maybe low ferritin. Maybe your TIBC and UIBC are high and your ion sat is low or maybe your ferritin is below 30.

Again, any of these signs could be an iron-based anemia. So don’t get tripped up doing all this fancy brain chemistry work if you have an anemia.  You have to get that looked at and treated and diagnosed first.

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Amino Acid Conversion

So we have the conversion of L-tyrosine to Dopa.  Dopa then gets converted to dopamine.  Now when we’re supporting someone in their brain chemistry, we’ll use the amino acid L-tyrosine by itself. We will also use the extra Dopa support via mucuna pruriens or velvet bean extract.  So we can use pure Dopa via these herbs and we can even use the upstream compounds with the L-tyrosine.

This is the same thing with tryptophan.  We have tryptophan down here.  So you can see tryptophan gets converted to 5-HTP.  5-HTP is the intermediary in between tryptophan and serotonin.

Nutrients needed for conversion

Both of these require certain nutrients.  We have iron for tyrosine to Dopa and we have B6 in both intermediary conversion.  So when we’re at Dopa or 5-HTP, we need B6 to make that conversion from 5-HTP to serotonin.  We need B6 to make the conversion from Dopa to dopamine.  Very important, these nutrients can easily get burnt out via stress.

Also, you can see the iron nutrients here, too.  They’re involved.  And again, we both have TH enzymes that are involved in the conversion of tyrosine to Dopa, that’s the intermediary for dopamine.  We also have L-tryptophan and 5-HTP, which is the intermediary for serotonin.

Again, the TH enzyme down here stands for tryptophan hydroxylase, where up here, it’s actually tyrosine hydroxylase.  So 2 different enzymes, the abbreviations look the same so don’t get confused on that.

We have this enzyme called the amino acid decarboxylase enzyme and you can see that it’s the same enzyme for each one.  So these abbreviations look the same but they’re actually different enzymes.  These enzymes right here are exactly the same.

Serotonin deficiency

So here’s where it gets a little fuzzy.  If we give a whole bunch of L-tyrosine and we don’t give a whole bunch of tryptophan, what happens is we’re going to create tryptophan or a serotonin deficiency because we’re upregulating this enzyme.  This enzyme up here is upregulated which is fine because we have more tyrosine coming in. But at the same time, it’s also up regulating down here. It’s causing us to burn through more of our serotonin, so what actually starts to happen is we start creating a problem.

We start having more dopamine and we create less serotonin, and this is a long run.  If you’re using a little bit of L-tyrosine by itself, not a big deal.  But again, if you’re going to be on amino acids for your brain long-term, you want to be on a combination of L-tyrosine and 5-HTP or the intermediary, maybe even Dopa and 5-HTP.

Dr. Marty Hinz did some research finding that he could prevent serotonin deficiency when he’s working with his Parkinson patients giving 24,000 milligrams of L-tyrosine. We could prevent the serotonin deficiency by just giving small amount, 50 milligrams of 5-HTP. It was enough to prevent the serotonin deficiency when giving these real high amounts of L-tyrosine-dopamine support.

amino acids


L-tyrosine gets broken into Dopa.  Now when we work with patients, we’ll give a combination of L-tyrosine and Dopa because we want the building blocks, but sometimes we want to be able to override the capacitor. So you can see this enzyme here acting like a capacitor.

So if I give L-tyrosine, only so much can get converted downstream to dopamine.  It bottlenecks so it’s like a governor or a capacitor on an engine when you can only go so fast when you floor the pedal.  So this TH enzyme that has the same effect here is a capacitor on tyrosine converted to dopamine, and this enzyme over here is a capacitor on the tryptophan converting to serotonin.  We will bypass some of that by giving the straight 5-HTP and giving the straight L-Dopa with the L-tyrosine.

So going back, L-tyrosine gets converted to Dopa.  Again, we only can have so much convert here, so we want to make sure these nutrients are present. And then in the intermediary here, if we give extra, we have to make sure we have B6.  B6 is a nutrient across the board.  We need in both reactions. From the food standpoint, sources are nuts and seeds, 4-5 out of the top 10 are going to be meats.  Your chicken, fish and turkey.

Everyone knows that tryptophan will get tired after a Thanksgiving Day meal. That’s the tryptophan in the turkey.  Same thing, 4-5 are going to be meats. So we got to make sure we’re eating good quality meats, nuts and seeds, avocado.  Things like that are going to be really awesome for your B6 levels.

My patients that have brain issues are going to need anywhere between a 100 milligrams to 300 milligrams if you’re at the Parkinson’s spectrum of extra P5P or activated B6, pyridoxal-5-phosphate.

So you can see here, tyrosine we support both the beginning and intermediary nutrients to help dopamine get converted.  And again, we can stress out our dopamine because it can go to adrenaline.

Reasons that Drive Neurochemicals Out of Balance

When we see these problems, all these issues can be genetically based.  They can be nutrient based from a poor diet  or may be autoimmune.  They can be from stress or burning up our nutrients. And it can also be from leaky gut or malabsorption due to SIBO or multiple infections and low stomach acid.

So your big 5 reasons are going to be driving a lot of these neurochemicals out of balance.  And this is the same with tryptophan.  We get tryptophan in turkeys, as the most common, but it gets converted to 5-HTP, we still need the corresponding nutrients, B6, and then we have the corresponding conversion to our active brain chemicals.

Dopamine really goes up when we eat a lot of sugar.  So a lot of people artificially stimulate and burn out their dopamine through sugar.  Dopamine is also the focus and the I-love-you neurochemical and serotonin is your mood, as you’re happy neurochemical.  We need serotonin to feel happy, to feel fulfilled. Typically, we need a combination of them together and they function and dysfunction together.  They’re like brother and sister.  It’s very rare that we just only treat dopamine or only treat for serotonin because of the fact that this enzyme here can create deficiencies.  So we’ll usually use them together as a team.

Now you can see down here we have this quinolinate pathway here.  Without enough B6, we’re going to convert a lot of our tryptophan into quinolinate, which is inflammatory.  Now if we have enough B6, we can actually block this pathway from even happening.  We can block it and we can make tryptophan go more this way, but we can also bypass that by giving 5-HTP.


Precautions and Recommendations

So if you’re inflamed, be careful of taking tryptophan by itself because you can actually drive this quinolinate pathway which is more inflammatory.  So we want to get 5-HTP. If we give tryptophan, we want to give B6 with it and we always want to give B6 together in any brain program.  Again, if you’re just doing the aminos and you’re not getting the B6, then you’re really missing the boat on that.


The big take-home feedback is amino acids are super powerful.  Most drugs are just preventing the reuptake.  The neurochemicals, let’s say serotonin, in between the presynaptic neuron and post synaptic neuron. The longer they live out, the more they get broken.

Most medications are actually blocking the reuptake because our body naturally recycles these serotonins. So we can bring them back in and we can have a longer shelf life.  Now most medications actually come in there and they actually block the reuptake. That will allow more serotonin to accumulate between the pre and post synaptic neuron. The longer they’re there, the faster the body starts to actually break them down and recycle them.

So again, what we do is we trade a short-term increase in serotonin or dopamine for a long-term deficiency.  That’s why most people on these medications actually have to increase the drug dosage to keep the effect the same.  Almost anyone you’ll talk to has had that experience. They have to increase the dosage or even change medications as well.

If you have any brain issues or any digestion issues that are potentially driving the brain, click on screen and get more info. If you’re having any gut and mood issues and you’re thinking maybe they’re related, you’re probably right.

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Beverly Meyer – GABA, Vitamin K2, and Weston A Price – Podcast #51

Dr. Justin Marchegiani invites Beverly Meyers for this podcast interview and gives us a lot of information about Vitamin K and GABA and why there is a need to get our neurotransmitters well-balanced. They also discuss protein digestion and its importance for GABA production.
Beverly Meyers

Beverly Meyer has been a nutritionist for the past 30 years and she shares with us her own story battling with Celiac, Addison’s and Graves’ disease as well as transitioning off the pharmaceuticals onto the more natural herbal approach. Discover more about the Paleo diet and whether one can get enough Vitamin K from a food-based source. This interview also touches upon the impact of dental health has on one’s growth and the uses of EFT or Emotional Freedom Techniques.

In this episode, topics include:

1:20   The neurotransmitter GABA

6:06   The neurotransmitter GABA

24:55   Weston A. Price and his nutritional journey

28:10   Activator X and vitamin K2

41:20   1 pill for 1 ill, diet comes first








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Info on Beverly Meyer: Beverly has been a nutritionist for over 30 years in San Antonio, Texas and is the author of the DVD titled, The Diet For Human Beings. She is a gluten-free Paleo Nutritionist and Natural Health practitioner. She is a blogger, podcaster, patient, animal lover, and sometimes a pretty funny person.  Her goal is to help you (and herself) feel better!

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Hey, there!  It’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani here with Beyond Wellness Radio and we got Beverly Meyer?  Did I say it right, Bev?

Beverly Meyer:  Yes, that’s right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Great!  Awesome!  And Bev’s website is and Beverly, we’re really happy to have you on the show today.

Beverly Meyer:  Thanks for having me on, Justin.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Alright, great!  Well, I’m on your site right now and I know, you know, you’ve put a lot of information out there on Vitamin K and GABA, and I kinda wanna get a take on where you wanted to start?

Beverly Meyer:  Well, let’s talk about GABA because it’s–it’s a trans–neurotransmitter that most people including your regular physicians have never heard about.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Beverly Meyer:  And yet it’s been a life-changing discovery for me when I found out 10 or 15 years ago that I basically had a life-threatening deficiency in the neurotransmitter GABA.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Hmm.

Beverly Meyer:  So let me give you a really short course in neurotransmitters and I write about this a lot in the blog.  Basically, there are 4 main neurotransmitters.  Two that are excitatory, I call them the go-gos.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Ahh.

Beverly Meyer:  Dopamine and acetylcholine.  They help us work and focus and move and think and–and burn and–and go.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Beverly Meyer:  And then there’s two inhibitory neurotransmitters, serotonin and GABA.  G-A-B-A.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Beverly Meyer:  And these help us relax the muscles and digest our food and sleep and laugh and make love and–and just be at ease.  And it’s like the 4 tires on your car.  You need the 4 neurotransmitters really, really well-balanced or your brain, the electricity in your brain does not fire properly.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Got it.  Got it.

Beverly Meyer:  This is really cool because it’s–serotonin and GABA, everybody’s heard of serotonin and you may not know what it is or what it does except you can associate it with the word depression, but it does so much more than that, and GABA also has–has many, even dozens of functions in the body as the serotonin, but they’re like brakes in your car.  And if–if all you do is give it the gas, give it the go, go, go, go, which is kind of how we are living today in modern life.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Beverly Meyer:  Everything is a go and a sudden and a right now and an or else which is very sympathetic nervous system.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Beverly Meyer:  And it’s GABA and serotonin’s job to help keep us in that parasympathetic mode where we are healthy and happy.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Okay, got it and that parasympathetic is the healing, relaxation, digestion.  Where the sympathetic is the–the go, go, go, stress, stress, stress, break down, break down.

Beverly Meyer:  Yeah, and there’s the–the go-go neurotransmitters are not necessarily sympathetic nervous system but they are very active.  You know, the work, the move, the exercise, the, you know, physical and emotional focus.  But we’re also locked up into anxiety and insomnia and perfection and speed these days that it’s really easy to–to burn out these neurotransmitters that help keep us calm and GABA has a strong relationship with gluten and gluten antibodies also, so–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Ahh!

Beverly Meyer:  Yeah, so that was a real key for me, it’s that it’s–it–it’s like okay but why does it get so low, I could take and passion flower and help support my GABA every day for the rest of my life but it would be nice to know how did I get this way, wired and tired.  How did I get so burnt out and exhausted?  But I can’t sleep and so this–this ties right in with adrenal burnout.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Got it.   So can you talk about protein to–

Beverly Meyer:  But um, uh-oh, yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Go ahead.  Yeah, can you hear me okay?

Beverly Meyer:  Yeah, I was gonna say I forgot where I was gonna go with that sentence so, but that I’ll turn it back to you for the next question.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, no problem.  So protein, right?  All protein becomes broken down into amino acid and amino acids essentially can become, L-tryptophan will become our serotonin, the L-tyrosine to our dopamine.  Can you talk about how protein digestion is important for GABA production as well?

Beverly Meyer:  Well, no.  Actually, that’s the chemistry of how we produce GABA is not something that I’m particularly familiar with so I can’t talk about that.  But–but I can tell you that we naturally produce GABA but we can run short of it if we overuse it.  And yes, like all amino acids it’s–it is based in some form of a protein breakdown–breakdown but of course, there are many enzymatic reactions that have to happen for anything you eat to become something else.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.  Isn’t L-theanine one of the main amino acids behind making GABA?

Beverly Meyer:  I don’t think it’s a component of GABA.  It’s–it actually kind of helps, well, it helps your body produce GABA and/or as a substitute for GABA and theanine is something that–that many people do tolerate, many people don’t tolerate it, and it can–some people have really great results with theanine.  Personally, I never did.  It just–it just didn’t work for me.  I think I probably was missing some of those co-factors–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Co-factors.

Beverly Meyer:  To–uh-huh.  To help shift it and that’s when I found that the passion flower did a much better job for me.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  How does the passion flower help increase GABA?

Beverly Meyer:  Well, it’s got all the raw materials and it basically just says, “Here.  Here’s the GABA, do you want it?”  At as–trying to buy a supplement called GABA on your shelf.  Strangely, straight GABA is actually not the right thing to take.  The GABA itself has to be in a form that’s slightly altered for your body to be able to use it as a supplement.  So it can be called pharmaGABA or phenibut, but it’s phenylbutyric acid and phenyl–well, it’s a longer word than that but that’s one way that you can try GABA.  So there–there are different ways you can try it, the pharmaGABA, the passion flower, some theanine.  But some interesting things have also produced GABA and that is alcohol, heroine, and marijuana.  And one of the whole series on addiction is that basically our brain say, “You know I am in such need of GABA that I will turn to alcohol, heroine, or marijuana to provide that GABA that I need to survive.”  It’s kinda–kind of a different way to think about–I have a lot more compassion for people now that I realize, “Wow, they were really out of GABA, too, just kinda like me,” and I didn’t end up as bad as that but I had basically what was finally diagnosed as partial seizure disorder.  And–and I actually started on low-dose anti-epileptics about 15 years ago and I’m telling you within a week, I felt like a new person.  It–it really gave me hope that, “Well, I’m not going to just die or fade away at the age of 50-something that I can–I can come back and, of course, I don’t take those anymore,”  but they provided a pharmaceutical, a form of GABA, that my brain could use to manage the brain waves.  Because that’s what we’re talking about.  We’re talking about electricity in the brain and GABA governs them, the even stability of electrical flow from left to right in the brain, and so you can imagine if it’s out of balance, if it’s unstable, the GABA deficiency symptoms which I write a lot about can be diarrhea or constipation, high blood pressure or–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Beverly Meyer:  Low blood pressure, insomnia, or even narcolepsy.  Excess sweating–so GABA is all about stability and–and thinking that the brain does not obsess about those 75 emails that you didn’t do or that one that you did.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Beverly Meyer:  All that obsessive OCD stuff that a lot of us don’t acknowledge that we–we really are struggling with.  It’s very GABA-related and–and people get hold of couple of bottles of passion flower.  I have those in my online store and you stick in your–your purse, your kitchen, your car, your kids’ backpack and life becomes a lot easier.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Got it, got it.  And I know you mentioned addiction and drugs, they’re–they’re basically stimulating GABA, right?  I mean, it’s not a building block for GABA.  It’s kinda like whipping a tired horse, is that correct?

Beverly Meyer:  Well, they’re not repairing–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Beverly Meyer:  The temporal lobe–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Stored.

Beverly Meyer:  Malfunction.  They’re not restorative but they are providing.  We all know that, you know, for most people if you’ve had a hard day and you have a glass of wine, you tend to relax.  I mean, it’s–there it is.  So it is providing some of that GABA as a relief but–but and obviously we have to look at the lifestyle factor that have caused your brain to be so overloaded.  And remember earlier I was starting to mention that there is a gluten antibody linked here as well and that ties in to what are called the GAD65 enzymes.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  GAD65, right.

Beverly Meyer:  Yeah, and–and very related to GABA utilization in the body but can also be hampered by gluten antibodies.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right, and that’s those dysdiadochokinesia type of movements where people may be have those jitters, almost like an intention tremor so to speak and you can see that and gluten can easily–gluten antibodies can easily be created that actually go in and attack that GAD65 enzyme which actually create that GABA, correct?

Beverly Meyer:  Right.  And remember when you talk about any kind of a tremor, what you’re talking about is exactly that unstable firing that I was talking about.  It’s kind of like part of the brain is firing–tu, tu, tut, tut–tu, dut–tu, tu, tu, tu, tud–tut–if you will.  And–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Beverly Meyer:  The–instead of just an even–tut–I’m just making this up.  But instead of an even tut, tut, tut, tut, tut, tut, that you want.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Beverly Meyer:  And–and so yes, active tremors are–are and Tourette’s, ataxia, stumbling, these can be very strong clues for–for severe GABA deficiencies.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And obviously giving someone passion flower that has a gluten sensitivity and they’re making all these GAD65 antibodies, you have to get them off the gluten, right?

Beverly Meyer:  Absolutely.  That’s the–my motto on my website and my podcast, is food first, that we’re not running lab tests, we’re not doing anything.  I’m taking your history but until we get your diet really, really clean and get everything we can think of that might have some antibody and blood sugar impact on your body, ‘til we get that stuff out and get the nutrient-dense rich foods and fats in there, then we start over and completely take the history from scratch, because you’re a completely different person.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Exactly.  Now there are a lot of people that say GABA can’t cross the blood brain barrier.  It’s too big of an amino acid.  So what’s your take on giving an herb like passion flower, giving an amino acid like L-theanine, and then also doing the pharmaGABA sublinguals?  What’s your take on those three?

Beverly Meyer:  Well, that’s the reason why you don’t use straight–a product that’s just called straight GABA and this is a little odd, but straight GABA can cross the blood brain barrier but that’s one reason why you don’t want to use it.  I know that sounds backwards but this is why you want the–the phenyl–phenylbuterate form of it that it actually has a different pathway.  So if–if someone takes straight cheap GABA, just GABA on the label, and feels calmer and much more relaxed, that’s actually diagnostic of–of what we call leaky brain syndrome, just like there’s leaky gut.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right, yeah.

Beverly Meyer:  Leaky–leaky brain, leaky lung, leaky gut.  The three big–three big places that we leak.  So–so GABA is not supposed to be able to cross the blood brain barrier but the altered form can and this is also where the herb seems to do just a stellar job, is that it–it enables that package to be delivered.  And–and it doesn’t have to be sublingual.  It–it can be a pill.  Sublingual is fine, too, for the–the phenylbuterated form.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Got it.  So if someone’s taking GABA and they’re getting a benefit from it, and we know such a large percent of the population more than likely has leaky gut just from grains and stress and infections, etc.  Does that mean someone shouldn’t use GABA if they’re getting a benefit from it, if they’re getting that right relaxation effect?

Beverly Meyer:  No, but it does mean that they need to come and talk to Dr. Justin and find out how they’re gonna help manage the antibodies and the leaky gut, and the–all those debris and–and inflammation in the body.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Got it.  So what you’re saying it’s a sign of something deeper, it’s okay to use it but you really got to put your attention on the gut, the diet, the stress, the sleep, the whole nine yards, the big picture, right?

Beverly Meyer:  Absolutely.  It’s all about food and lifestyle.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Wow!  I know we’re kinda just got into the GABA part and it’s–it’s very interesting.  Can you tie this back a little bit into your story?  Because you’ve been a nutritionist for a very long time.  I think 30 years, you said.  Can you talk more about your story and then kinda get back in–into what we’re talking about here?

Beverly Meyer:  Yes, I’m in my 60s and I saw my first natural health practitioner in 1972, when–when the even the word natural health practitioner was a very odd thing to say.  People had no idea what you were talking about.  So this body is–just had a hard time and it wasn’t until I was in my 40s that–that the celiac disease got confirmed.  I’d already been off of wheat, but when I discovered how much better I felt off of gluten and then off of all the grains and then off of all the dairy and then off of nuts and then off of nightshades and then off of eggs, I laughed with people in–in the Paleo diet when I have them on my show or I’m on their shows and I say, “You know, I was eating Paleo before it had a name.”  So I just–I just figured this stuff out for myself because I’d been really so sick most all of my life and I’ve also had a history of extremely poor adrenal function.  The first saliva test I ever ran on anybody was on myself and when I got it back, there was just a little flat straight line and number 1 straight across the bottom of the page.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Wow.

Beverly Meyer:  And I called the lab and I said, “There’s something wrong with your report.  It–it–there’s no cortisol here.”  And I didn’t tell them it was me and they said, “Well, you know, you need to call this patient.  They need to be in the hospital immediately.”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Whoa.

Beverly Meyer:  I said, “Well, you’re talking to her.”  And I have 2 patients after this, so you know, that was a big wake up call for me.  I had severe Epstein-Barr Virus at the time.  I had a really bad concussion.  I was going into menopause.  You know, you just–wow, really, really bad time and I never did get–which is what they told me.  But I did understand that it was time to–to really seriously get help or I was not gonna make it.  So that was quite some time ago but here I am, you know, running my businesses and podcasts, and I don’t travel to Costa Rica or whatever anymore.  I don’t–I just don’t do that.  I control my environment and my food very carefully and then things in this body work–work pretty well.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Also you had the autoimmune condition Addison’s where you were literally attacking your adrenal glands.

Beverly Meyer:  Yes, absolutely.  Celiac, Addison’s and Graves’ disease on top.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Wow.

Beverly Meyer:  So my poor thyroid since I didn’t have any adrenal function, the thyroid was in high gear trying to help me, you know, stand up and pump blood and then the–the gluten wasn’t all out at that time either.  So that kinda took the thyroid out but I knew I could get that back and that’s when I went and basically said, “Alright, what’s underneath all of this?”  And that’s when I found out about the–the electrical malfunction in my brain and the–the temporal lobe–temporal lobe dysfunction where the GABA is–is working.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So the first thing you did was to kind of help balance that brain chemistry for you.  Was it the passion flower or were you doing the sublingual GABA?

Beverly Meyer:  No, the first thing I did was get on a low-dose anti-epileptics.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Okay.

Beverly Meyer:  And that’s because, you know, when I–I had an amazing neurologist of which there–there is no one like him.  He’s–he’s a crazy man but he totally saved my life.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Wow.

Beverly Meyer:  And but he, you know, he showed–we did–he does very elaborate testing and brain scans, stuff nobody else does and he said, “You know, you have no GABA function.  You’re at 15% of normal, and you know, that you’re probably having low grade seizures and probably have had them for a long time.”  And I burst into tears and it was, you know, he was like, “Oh, don’t be upset.”  I’m like, “I’m not upset.  I’m so happy.”  You know, when somebody finds an answer, you know, that–that gives you a whole new sense and he said, “Well, I know your background, you’re–you do naturopathic counseling and herbs and supplements and foods, would you be willing to take a prescription drug?”  And I burst into tears again and I said, “You had me at the word seizures.”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Wow.

Beverly Meyer:  So I took very low dose drugs and with a lot of muscle testing to confirm which drug would work best for me and what dose and he–this man was brave enough that he honored that.  He said, “You tell me which of these you handled the best and what dose is right for you.”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And so how did you transition off the pharmaceuticals onto the more natural herbal approach?

Beverly Meyer:  Basically I–at that point, I–I just stopped working and basically stayed home in a beautiful environment that I have here with nature and animals, my 2 horses, and just basically kinda withdrew to the cave, well, you know, went to ground to just eat and–and rest and not have obligations because it’s this constant pressure on us now for–for performance, obligation, and speed that I think is–is really killing us and so I’m kind of on a mission to help people.  Look let’s get this diet but then the next thing we gotta do is, you know, is we gotta take a serious look at your life and your belief structure.  You know, all these leftover stuff from your parents multiplied by a hundred, you know, by everything, your peers and on TV and stuff, and learn how to take control of your own life and say, “You know what?  That doesn’t work for me and–and I’m not gonna do that.”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Got it, got it.  So you were on these epileptic drugs to help balance the brain chemistry and then you transitioned over to the–some of the herbal approach and that made a–a big difference.  You were able to come off the drugs when you transitioned over?

Beverly Meyer:  Yes, and that’s also when I found out that I did have celiac and so–and then running a–the Cyrex Labs Array for gluten antibodies and–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So 5, Array 5 on that one?

Beverly Meyer:  It used to have the GAD65 antibodies in–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Beverly Meyer:  With the gluten and they no longer do.  And that’s when it all went, you know, ding in my brain that, “Oh, my gosh, this is a–coming from a lifetime of gluten and so on.”  And so you just–you keep finding out where to do and tightening it up as–as you go.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And when you’re working with your patients getting them to go gluten-free, are you doing just a straight gluten-free or are you doing a grain-free where you’re getting them off of all grains?

Beverly Meyer:  No, I’m–I strongly encourage them to go full Paleo, as–as strong and as far and as fast as they can because I want people–we all know that if–if you’re drinking 12 Cokes a day, you know, you’re gonna feel a little better if you get down to 6 Cokes a day–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Beverly Meyer:  But you know, you–you really don’t know who you are or what your chemistry is all about until you get to a–I call it, go to your corner.  You know, it’s like when you’re in a–a boxer and you’re in in your fight and they ring that bell.  You go to your corner and–and you get taken care of in that corner.  You get to sit down, you get–you get water, you get to rest, you don’t have to think about anything.  You know it’s your safe place.  And I want people to experience a big enough change in food can create a place where they can feel, “Oh, I feel much better.”  And that if they stray out of that, they can experiment with, “Okay, that didn’t work,” or “Well, okay, that wasn’t so bad, as long as I only did it once or twice,” and this, the whole point as you know, Justin, is to give people the power to–to take care–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Beverly Meyer:  Of themselves and not be relying on you, otherwise, we’d each have a million clients, and–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Beverly Meyer:  You know, we’re overbooked and we’re overworked, too.  And we want to people to understand here’s what I think your biggest areas you can help yourself are and–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Beverly Meyer:  And I’m gonna hammer at these until I feel like you’re–you’re getting somewhere and then we’re gonna look at the adrenals and some supplements and this and that and mercury fillings and all the rest.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, that’s a good approach and with my patients very similar–almost all patients for the first month, at least we’re on a strict autoimmune Paleo approach where it’s really just meat and vegetables and maybe a little bit of low sugar fruit and again, no–not even white rice.  Again Paleo has kind of been co-opted a little bit where white rice is now Paleo and potatoes, white potatoes are Paleo, so I just keep it really strict to an autoimmune Paleo and it sounds like you’re doing something very similar.

Beverly Meyer:  Absolutely and–and you know, when sometimes people have that–a rough time the first week or so because they’re so addicted to the gluten and the dairy and the sugars and all that, but some people, you know, within 36 hours, they’re already like a new person and–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Beverly Meyer:  And then they trust you.  They’re like, “Oh, my gosh!  This is a little hard, but wow!  I think my whole life is about to change.  What do I do next?”  And–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Beverly Meyer:  They’re excited for what’s gonna come next.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, diet is one of the biggest factors that can push your body into a pro-inflammatory, you know, you’re inflamed to an anti-inflammatory state where you’re healing and that has a huge effect on the gut like you mentioned, if you have GAD65, you’re–you’re messing up your brain.  If you have GAD65, you probably also have a leaky guy going on there.  Can you talk about how brain health and how GABA is tied in with the gut especially if you have a leaky gut issue?

Beverly Meyer:  Our genetics are a little bit in trouble as it is.  Our genetics are a little bit in trouble.  We’re–we’re not born very strong right now, a lot of us.  We’re already having problems as-as children and so, we’re not developing the strong immune systems that–that we should be.  So it–it really does get back to the generational strength of the immune system and what we’re fed.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Wow!  Because I know in the pre-interview we were talking about that.  We were talking about Weston A. Price and the Activator X and Vitamin K.  I think this is a really good time to shift gears a little bit and talk about some of Weston A. Price’s work and kind of dovetail into Vitamin K and how that’s so important as we grow over the structure of our face and health.

Beverly Meyer:  Well, yes and the first thing I wanna say about Weston Price is that the–the man was incredibly brilliant.  His work is incredibly brilliant and it’s–to me it’s a shame that a lot of people have taken his work and used that as an excuse to eat non-stop, you know, wheat and rice and oats and–and bread as–as long–­but I soaked it first–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Beverly Meyer:  Before I eat, so I just have to throw it in there that I–no matter how many great things I say about Weston Price, it’s what some of us have done with his work that I just wanna caution people about, but Weston Price was like the original Jungle Man, you know.  He–in his–he was already well up in age in his–in the 1930s, 1940s as a dentist, and his patients’ teeth were falling apart, you know, each generation would come in and like they’re–they’re faces were getting narrow, they’re palates were more V-shaped–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Beverly Meyer:  Instead of a wide U–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Beverly Meyer:  Shape.  The teeth were crowded.  They were having health problems.  The narrow chins, receding chins, and he was determined that this had something to do with nutrition and that he wanted to find out what.  So he went all over the world with his wife, back in times when, you know, you had to take 17 trains and 3 camels–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Beverly Meyer:  To get anywhere.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Absolutely.

Beverly Meyer:  And then lived with isolated peoples from the Outer Hebrides in Scotland and–and up in, you know, at the Inuit, the Eskimo, the African tribes, whatever and he spent years with people cataloguing what they ate and what they used–oh, that particular oyster or mussel they used and when do you use that?  Oh, you used that as soon as the woman knows she’s pregnant.  That’s really interesting.  He documented all these stuff and took thousands of photographs of big wide smiling cheekbones which these people had and they had all of their adult teeth and no cavities.  And when he put all his research together, what it all boiled down to–this is so interesting–his book, Physical Degener–Nutrition and Physical Degeneration–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Degeneration, right.

Beverly Meyer:  Is a really interesting book.  It’s not a hideous, boring textbook.  It’s actually really pretty interesting, but anyway, he put all this research together and said, “Here’s the bottom line.  No matter where you are, no matter what you eat, all these people I spoke with had 10 times the amount of Vitamin A, X-factor,” that he said these are fat-soluble vitamins and they have 10 times the amount we have in the United States in the 1930s and 40s, and golly, we were still eating organic and fresh ground nuts and seeds then.  So that’s–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Exactly.  There was no conventional food back then.

Beverly Meyer:  No.  So we were eating pretty well, but as he said, people’s facial structure was already collapsing in and that’s–that was his impetus to–to research this.  So it turns that his X–Activator X is what we know as Vitamin K2, not K1 but K2, and that indeed A, D, and K really must be all taken.  You–you don’t wanna just have 1 or 2 without the others, and that’s why cod liver oil has Vitamin A and Vitamin D but it has no Vitamin K.  So you–you must take supplemental K2 if you’re gonna take any kind of Vitamin D and that includes the cod liver oil.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And what if you had enough grass-fed butter in your diet?

Beverly Meyer:  Well–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Would that be enough for the Vitamin K2?

Beverly Meyer:  Possible and that’s a good question, Justin.  It–the–the best ways I can tell people to read a quick summary is on my website.  There’s a blog post on–there’s two blog posts on Vitamin K2.  One, for its effect on heart disease and the arteries and plaque in the arteries; and the other is on structure of your face and facial bones and cheekbones and your teeth.  And there’s a podcast, too.  So, people can really get deeply into this and what was your question?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yes, we were just talking about it–because the big sources of Vitamin K2 from what–

Beverly Meyer:  Oh, yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I know is grass-fed butter, also egg yolks as well.

Beverly Meyer:  Yes.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So if someone is consuming good healthy egg yolks and good healthy grass-fed butter, can they get enough Vitamin K in that from a food-based source?

Beverly Meyer:  Possibly.  Possibly.  Possibly.  And the pastured egg yolks contain some Vitamin K.  Pastured, spring, grass-fed, organic butter has some Vitamin K, but not a lot.  It’s–it’s, you know, you’d have to eat like 10 lbs of butter a week or something.  I forget the statistics, it’s on my blog post.  But the combination of–of true, fermented foods, pastured egg yolks, pastured butter, and then of course, the more pastured animal fats and organs we eat, we–we can accumulate and–and maintain some Vitamin K, but really at this point at my life, the only supplements I take are Vitamin D and Vitamin K2, and in the summer, I don’t really take much D because I’m out with the horses.  So the other richest source of Vitamin K, it’s emu oil.  But a particular emu oil, it’s–it’s in my story.  You may wanna put it in yours, too, and it’s a heritage species of emu.  It’s not the emu oil people use for cosmetics and massage lotions.  But these are from male emus and they–they have this fat storage like a back strap down their–down their backs and the males, emus, sit on the eggs for 6 weeks and live on this Vitamin K fat storage and the other nutrients that are–that are there.  They live on that.  They never leave the nest and–omega 3, 6, 9, anti-inflammatory, nutrient-dense food and you can get it in a capsule.  It’s called Walkabout– Walkabout Emu Oil.  It’s pretty amazing stuff.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Wow!  Very cool!  So you’re kind of taken us down the story of Weston A. Price and all the different cultures he discovered and I think he even came into the conclusion that the healthiest cultures are the ones that were eating animal products and also to note, I think Price actually went into this as a vegetarian or thinking that the vegetarian diets were going to be the healthiest but I think that he found the opposite.  Is that correct?

Beverly Meyer:  Yeah, he just said, he had an open mind.  He was just, you know, he was just a wonderful person.  He said, “You know, something’s wrong with people, our bodies–”  He calls it–he calls it injuries, facial injuries.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Beverly Meyer:  That–that you have the narrow face and narrow chin and narrow palate and receding chin, and narrow hips.  He said this was gonna lead to fertility problems and depressions and anxieties and dental problems, and all these stuff.  He totally predicted it all and–and really I’m kind of a poster child for, you know, Weston Price will take one look at me and he–he’d say, “See, there you go.  That’s exactly what I predicted.”  Because I am–I’m very–I’m very tall but very narrow, and you know, my whole body is–is that way but my palate is, too.  And that seems to be my latest breakthrough in the last couple of years is discovering that I can re-shape my palate even at my age and take the–move my lower chin forward just by wearing some dental appliances, not by surgery, and take the pressure off the brain stem and all of this.  I just–I had a miraculous decrease of my anxiety as I just began to move the tiniest bit of–to move my lower chin forward.  So it’s just–it’s really interesting work.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So how does–how does someone find someone that specializes in that type of work?

Beverly Meyer:  Yeah, good question. There–there’s some information about that on my website, but if you do some search, there–there’s a whole new types of dentists now, just like in naturopathic doctors.  There’s new types of dentist now.  There’s a field they call sleep dentistry.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Beverly Meyer:  And the sleep dentist can go one of two ways.  They may go into the CPAP to this we’re gonna fix your–your sleep problems but you’re gonna have to wear this CPAP and to have surgery on your airway, etc.  Or the other ones that say, the problem is–is that your lower jaw is compressing back on your airway and you’re tongue is in the wrong place.  You don’t hold your tongue out well.  And they have, I call them retainers, but they’re–they’re mouth pieces, mouth appliances.  Some you wear in the day and some you wear at night that just re-positioned the jaw and the ones at night actually holds your jaw open for you, just enough to open the airway.  So you don’t want jaw surgery, so you can look for the more enlightened dentist–you can even–you can Google sleep dentistry in your area.  The name of one of the dental appliances is called the Mora, M-O-R-A.  M-O-R-A.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Got it.

Beverly Meyer:  And there’s another one called, Alf, A-L-F, and there are now also pediatric orthodontists that are getting into this big time because they’re seeing these young patients coming in, you know, 3, 4, 5 years old already with these narrow pointed chins and they know they got a lifetime of dental problems ahead of them so they start the youngsters on a kind of like an athlete puts in his mouth before he goes to play football–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Beverly Meyer:  But they’re not, you know, so hideous but they’re little soft, pliable shapers that they teach the children to wear when they sleep, so that they–while their jaws are really malleable, can–can re-shape that palate and then I, of course, have to throw in there.  It’s like, “Yes, and don’t forget to give them a little emu oil, too, for that Vitamin K.”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And that’s great.  When I was growing up, I was a big–I sucked my thumb a lot.  I was a big thumb sucker so I created that V-shaped arch and I had to wear an appliance for years to kind of bring my arch back and I know, nutritionally I wasn’t in the best shape when I was younger.  So again, good nutrition is really important.  How do they know what the shape of the mouth should be?  Are they just kind of using a kind of measurements and basing upon, you know, where the bite should fall or where the jaw alignment should go?  How did they figure out what’s normal for you?

Beverly Meyer:  Well, you–the first question is what’s normal for a human?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Beverly Meyer:  And that’s where you go back to Weston Price who like I say took thousands of photographs of people’s faces and teeth, and so we-we know what is normal–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  How it looks, right.

Beverly Meyer:  For a human face to look like.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  How’s that quantified though?

Beverly Meyer:  What–I’m not quite sure about your question.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Are there certain measurements they’re looking at to–to figure out exactly, “Hey, you’re, you know, you’re front–”  I’m not familiar with the dental terminology but you’re incisors are this much up or your canines or this or that, to objectify it.

Beverly Meyer:  I don’t know.  I just know that–that when you see a person with a narrow face and, therefore, narrow cheekbones and you know, that narrow face, you know, if you–we’re used to seeing people with very narrow faces now, long and narrow faces.  It’s unusual to see people with–with wide faces and strong jaws, kind of like George Clooney for ex–we-we call them, you know, handsome.  George Clooney and Arnold Schwarzenegger because of that wide cheekbone and strong, squared jaw.  So that’s what we’re looking for, the jaw doesn’t point and drop down, that the face isn’t narrowing and that the palate itself is as fully spread and expanded as it can be.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  You know, when you watch TV, one of the interesting things that Price talked about–I think it was Price–was the rule of thirds, and that’s the bottom part of the chin that goes up to the bottom part of the nose, that should be one-third of your face.  While the bottom part of your nose to the brow area–

Beverly Meyer:  Eyebrow.  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  The second-third and then the eyebrow to where the hairline starts should be third-third.  And you should–when you watch TV, you can see lots of people that either have a small middle third or they have a small lower third where you could see that really small chin.  I can think of a few actors on TV but I won’t name though, and then also the other big thing is it’s clinically relevant is a big forehead.  A larger third forehead is a big sign of gluten sensitivity that’s actually–I forget which journal it is–but they said it was clinically diagnostic as–as a criteria for gluten sensitivity.

Beverly Meyer:  Wow.  It’s–it’s really fascinating stuff but it–you know, it gets back to gluten and Vitamin K2 and–and then they’re gonna all get back to the temporal lobes in the brain which is right at your TMJ and your ability to create and utilize GABA and it all ties in.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, it does.  In Hollywood, you know, we think of like George Clooney of someone of that as being attractive and you know, what really is attractiveness and a lot of it comes down to fertility and health.  If you would look at the Westin A. Price book, you can see these–the different tribes they go to, you can see the tribes that are eating that healthy diet, you can see the robust shape of their face and you can see the ones that deviate just one generation.  It’s a massive difference.

Beverly Meyer:  That’s right.  That’s right.  So I–you know, I–I don’t know too many people that have all 32 adult teeth.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I know.  That’s true.

Beverly Meyer:  That’s pretty rare, yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And there’s a plastic surgeon, his name is Dr. Marquardt and he created something called the Marquardt mask.  And he’s basically quantified attractiveness and with this number, I forget what the exact number is, but he finds that there’s this evenness that needs to be within all parts of the face and that’s–all people that are like the most attractive, so for instance, he’ll overlay it with Angelina Jolie or Brad Pitt and you’ll see it’s like perfect.  And then he’ll overlay it like with someone that you may not see being attractive and you could see the–where things don’t line up.  So it’s kinda interesting how this Weston A. Price thing formation and health kinda ties in to attractiveness which is interesting.

Beverly Meyer:  Yeah, it’s facial recognition, you know, the toys we make for children have the wide set eyes and you know, the mouth is in a certain place and it’s–it–we train early on for facial recognition.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  But it’s interesting how Hollywood is almost telling us the opposite where we have these super skinny emaciated girls–

Beverly Meyer:  Right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Who are modeling now and it’s like we’re almost trying to be tricked into what health is now and what attraction is now and it’s almost the opposite.  What’s your take on that?

Beverly Meyer:  Well, I–absolutely.  You know, I–I wish I had a nice robust body instead of my narrow crowded body.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right, right.  Exactly.  Well, is there anything else you wanted to tie into on the nutrition Weston A. Price and–and just overall health?

Beverly Meyer:  Well, I think, and again, the point I wanna stress with people is–is when, in you, I’m sure you get your share of people this way, too.  They wanna jump straight to the supplements.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Beverly Meyer:  And okay, maybe they’ll–diet or maybe they’ll even do a lot of change in their diet but we’re still trained in that culture, one pill for one–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.

Beverly Meyer:  Ill.  You know, and I–I’m sure you had this, too.  I’ve had people walk in in my clinic and say, “You know, I have diabetes and–and high blood pressure and I’m–I’m prone to blood clots, which pill should I take?”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Beverly Meyer:  And, you know, I–it just blows my mind that–it–that people can even generate that question in their own mind that it doesn’t have anything to do with you and you just need somebody to give you the pill, and that it really does come down to your food and lifestyle and–and your ability to–to however it works to get good deep counseling on the patterns that run you.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Beverly Meyer:  I’m personally a big fan of EFT, Emotional Freedom Techniques, and remember when I told you when I was diagnosed first and went on the low-dose anti-epileptics and was so sick–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Beverly Meyer:  And basically just retreated home to the cave and–and that’s really what I did.  I did EFT, you know, 10, 20, 30–a little note, tiny notepad and pen on my person, literally 24 hours a day and when a thought would come up and I can feel my heart rate go up, that anxiety would come up and you know, which I know now is the brain that’s firing, and I’d write down what were you just thinking?  Aha!  I just had that thought.  Well, what would someone still think when they hear this and that, you know?  And–and literally write down what was that thought or even in reading a book, I’d be calm and happy reading a book and then suddenly, I was like, “Wow, I’m feeling a little anxious.”  Did I–was I thinking something?  No.  What did I just read?  And even to go back to some passages and say, “Wow!”  Yeah, that just triggered some pattern for myself, too, about that reaction.  So I–I really kept great notes on that and then I would do the EFT tapping on those patterns and to this day, I still do EFT, and I work with other different kinds of therapists and hypnotherapists, whatever works to address these patterns, but the first key is to become familiar with those voices in your head, the ones that say, “Oh, that was stupid.”  Well, great.  Write that down, you know.  You–you got to know those demons, I said, and I joke about–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Hmm.

Beverly Meyer:  It on my blog posts.  I say, “You know, it’s just like jukebox.”  And that one that says, “Well, that was stupid.”  That was, you know, that was D42.  And the one that says, “Oh, they just don’t know.  They–they, I’m smarter than they are.”  Well, that might be A11.  You know?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Beverly Meyer:  They’re just buttons that you push.  And you know, get to know them and if it pops up, you can, laugh at it and go, “Oh, my gosh, it’s A11 again.”  And, you know, “I’ve heard you before, I know who you are.”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Beverly Meyer:  And it–it’s the ability to just take on and acknowledge, “Yup, there’s that–there’s that thought.  There’s that pattern.”  And–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I’m a huge fan of EFT.

Beverly Meyer:  Yeah?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I’ve been–I’ve been using it for a couple of years.  I recommend my patients.  I use it or for all the different practitioners.  And just for everyone listening, it stands for Emotional Freedom Technique.  It was a technique derived from Dr. Diamond in the 80s and I think Gary Craig then took it and turned it from temporal tapping or tapping solution to EFT and it’s a great technique to neutralize negative emotions that are trapped in our nervous system to speak.  Can you talk more about how you use it with your patients?  Are you trying to find out what that negative thought is that you labeled A2 on the jukebox?  And do you–just talk about that emotion as you go through the various tapping points?

Beverly Meyer:  I don’t take that responsibility of teaching and working EFT with my clients.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Okay.

Beverly Meyer:  Sometimes I–I will and we will, I say, “Look, let’s just–let’s get away from this table and let’s go sit over here and let’s talk about this great technique.” Because I have found it so useful for anxiety, but it’s also terrifically useful for pain and other physical symptoms and you know, for example, if you notice a pain in your right elbow and it’s not usually there, or even if it’s usually there, and you kind of focus it, make a distinction about that pain.  Is it–is it stabbing, is it throbbing, is it itching or whatever?  And you make up a phrase to use even though I have this stabbing pain in my right elbow, I love and accept myself deeply and completely, and that’s kinda your little setup and off you go from there.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Beverly Meyer:  And as you tap through the points, and–and this is so easy for your listeners, you–you can learn this in, you know, 10 minutes, the 7, 8, 9 tapping points, it’s ridiculously easy to learn, and–but as your tapping on things, sometimes the thing behind it will start to peek out.  You know, maybe your tapping on–even though my feel–even though I feel really hurt right now that that person said that about me, I love and accept myself deeply and completely, and if–as your tapping on it, your emotions may shift from anger to sorrow, to guilt, to revenge, and each of those, just let you keep following that trail of–of that emotion and how it lives in you and to even, like I said, it paints a picture of that feeling, that phrase, that emotion that you can recognize again when you see it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Got it, yeah, I do the same thing.  I refer out to various YouTube videos or even online Skype practitioners that will work through some of my patients that have deeper stuff.  I–I think it’s definitely a great way to neutralize it because it’s–it’s all subconscious.  How do you get to your subconscious mind outside of that or maybe hypnosis?

Beverly Meyer:  Yeah, well, you pay attention and you do learn as you go.  But you know, you could–I can do EFT easily in the car or at the stop sign.  You know, I’m–I’m rushing, I’m late, and I’m–I’m gonna tap.  You know, on the fact that why do I do this?  Why do I make myself late?  And then I rush and then I get all, you know, A2 and B9 about, you know–what are people gonna think?  Or what if I–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.

Beverly Meyer:  Don’t show up?  Or how–what’s?  They’re gonna think badly if I’m 10 minutes, and I’m like, “Whatever.”  It is just–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Beverly Meyer:  It’s all just worthless trash but it’s–it’s useful to use–to understand yourself and then you just tap it out and have a big sigh and then you feel a lot calmer.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  That’s good.  I love that.  Very good.  Well, is there anything else that you wanna touch upon that you find really important for our listeners to know?

Beverly Meyer:  Well, I’m just gonna–I’m gonna give a little plug for my DVD here, The Diet for Human Beings, because it’s–it’s the only DVD that’s gonna help teach people how to eat a Paleo diet and why.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Hmm.

Beverly Meyer:  It’s–it’s simple to watch.  It’s easy to understand.  It lets you understand the glucose-insulin cycle, and–and why starches make you feel bad and you know, what to eat and what not to eat.  It’s just an easy way.  If you’re not gonna read a bunch of books to learn what you’re doing and why and when–when your girlfriend or your parents or your–your co-workers says, “Why are you eating that way?”  That you can actually answer intelligently instead of, “Oh, it’s that Paleo thing.”  You know?  And then you know, that’s not very empowering.  So it–it’s just–it’s an easy way for people to learn and then pass it on to their spouse or their daughter.  So here, you know, you may not watch the whole thing on me but sections 10, 11, and 12 just sound just like you here in and hand them the DVD, so it’s a great tool and then they can watch it and pass it on, too.  So I just needed to say that.  It’s–I think people will just go straight for the Paleo recipes but they don’t understand, you know, it’s a rule.  No grains, no–give me pancake that’s Paleo and you know–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Exactly.

Beverly Meyer:  You wanna understand what you’re doing and why, and so you could have a little discernment.  I have a pet peeve of Paleo treats.  You know?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yup.

Beverly Meyer:  Yeah, these date, blueberry, coconut honeyballs.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  The same amount of sugar.

Beverly Meyer:  I’m like, that is–that is not a Paleo food.  So you know, anyway, that’s–that’s­it’s an easy way to teach yourself what to do and why.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, I think that’s powerful.  I think all people need to understand why there’s power in why.  I remember people, you know, it still happens today.  People ask me, why do you eat that way?  And I just–I looked down on my watch and I say, “How long do you have?”  Well–

Beverly Meyer:  That’s–that’s why I did the DVD.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Beverly Meyer:  I got tired of explaining it to and they get tired of hearing it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right, I hear you.  And then again, people ask you.  You can recommend them to Dr. Meyer’s website and then also from the podcast as well to get more info on this, because knowledge is power especially if you are applying the knowledge.  That’s the most important thing.

Beverly Meyer:  Yes, it is.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Well, I wanna leave you with my last 2 questions that I ask all my guests.  If you were stuck on a desert island, what supplement or nutrient would you bring with you?  And I think I already know.

Beverly Meyer:  Well, I won’t need D on that–on that–on that desert island but I might need some Vitamin K.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I knew it.

Beverly Meyer:  But for sure, I’m gonna make sure I have enough saturated fat because I do think humans evolved to eat saturated fat and not all proteins have high quality saturated fat, you know, an equatorial fish does not have as much omega 3 as a cold water fish.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Beverly Meyer:  So I would have some–some–some good source of omega 3s with me along with that emu oil.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, just your luck you’re on a desert island with coconuts then you get the saturated fat from there as well.

Beverly Meyer:  That–that’s true.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Very cool.  So with our listeners here, what would be like the last 3 suggestions that you kinda wanna highlight, underline, what are the big 3 take homes for people just to kick more butt?

Beverly Meyer:  Number 1 is get off of gluten as if you’re life depended on it and you had a firm diagnosis of celiac disease.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And by gluten, all grains you mean, correct?

Beverly Meyer:  Well, first gluten.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yup.

Beverly Meyer:  I mean, maybe not first, but I mean especially I want people to treat gluten as your lipstick has gluten in it, your hair dye has gluten in it–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Hmm.

Beverly Meyer:  You’re handling the pet kibble that you’re tossing back and forth from the bowl to the bin and you’re breathing all of that dust with wheat flour, and this is why I say, to really learn all the sneaky places that you may think you’re gluten-free but you’re not.  And because we wanna get those antibodies under control as quickly as possible.  So that’s number one, is no matter what, gluten-free and just–just tell people you have celiac disease and it helps the waiter, you know, he doesn’t have to listen to your story.  Just–he knows what to do.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Exactly.  Exactly.  Just say you have an allergy, your celiac, that’s it.

Beverly Meyer:  That’s right and I’m gonna die on your doorstep if you don’t–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.

Beverly Meyer:  Listen to my order.  And that will–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Thank you.

Beverly Meyer:  Get their attention.  Number two–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Two.

Beverly Meyer:  Would be know yourself.  Listen to those patterns in your mind and learn them and what triggers them and whose pattern was that anyway?  You know, who’s the one that said, “You better make straight A’s.”?  And–and you’re still knocking yourself out trying to straight A all your email responses and, you know, know yourself and–and handle those–those drivers in your brain.  And number three, do a saliva test and check your adrenal status because sometimes it’s high, sometimes it’s low, sometimes it’s normal, sometimes it’s mixed, and I had no idea how sick I was until I did that saliva test and that’s what it took for me to finally–for me to finally wake up and say, “Oh, my gosh.  I’m in big trouble.  This is no joke.”  And saliva test is a hugely useful test for cortisol and all the male and female hormones, too, as long as you’re at it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Well, I–objective data can be incredibly motivating for people to make a change, change your diet, so I’m in full support of that, doc. That’s great.

Beverly Meyer:  Alright, well, thank you so much.  And by the way, I am not a doctor, so I don’t use the term doctor.  Although in Texas, you’re allowed to use the term doctor and call yourself an ND, which I–very opposed to people that have been to one weekend call themselves doctor and ND, this and that.  So I try to be very cautious about the use of that term doctor for those who deserve it and had been to medical school.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I understand.

Beverly Meyer:  Yeah, and for your–all people listening to this, don’t–you know, you should really question your practitioners, “What medical school did you go to?  What year?  Did you graduate and how long have you been practicing this particular specialty I’m consulting you with?”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right.  And most–most medical doctors have that zero nutrition training at all in their medical school.  So again, you’ve been doing this 30 years so we appreciate your info and your input and Bev Meyer’s site is, could you reiterate–

Beverly Meyer:  Nope.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Your podcast as well?

Beverly Meyer:  Yeah, it’s ondietandhealth.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Oh, ondietandhealth.  We’ll have that in the show host,

Beverly Meyer:  Dot com, and that’s my twitter and Pinterest is ondietandhealth.  My Facebook is BeverlyMeyerOnDietAndHealth, it’s a long name and the podcast is primaldietmodernhealth.  So you got that ancient food but the best of modern healthcare.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Awesome.  Well, thanks, Beverly.  It was so great having you on the podcast.

Beverly Meyer:  Thank you, Justin.  Those are–your great questions, you’re a wonderful interviewer and very thorough.  I’m sure with your–all your own patients.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Well, thank you so much.


-EFT intro video:
-The diet for human beings:


Improve Your Mood Part 1 – Podcast #28

Dr. Justin Marchegiani and Baris Harvey reviews why your mood is off and shares with the listeners some simple things you can do to help get it back on track. Basically, this is a discussion regarding mood and neurotransmitter health. So if you have overthinking and anxiety issues, listen to this podcast learn how to deal with them. Dr. Justin also explains the importance of female hormones and the adrenals working for PMS, mood issues, or disruption of cycle.
mood disorders

Find out about the key foundational principles that will definitely help with mood changes.  Also learn about the types of food you should eat to keep your blood sugar regulated which is greatly improve your energy and mood throughout the day. Discover how neurotransmitters allow us to feel good in this podcast. Get information on the recommended ratio when taking 5-HTP and L-tyrosine.

In this episode, topics include:

4:58   Fixing your mood with foundational principles

12:27   Foods to eat and to avoid

15:19   Protein, amino acids, and neutrotransmitters

24:40   Female hormones and supplements

33:24   5-HTP and serontonin & L-tyrosine and dopamine








Podcast: Play in New Window|Download

Baris Harvey:  Welcome to another awesome episode of Beyond Wellness Radio.  Before we go into today’s show, I wanna tell you guys about our newsletter.  Go to and hit the button that says Newsletter Sign Up.  By doing this, you’ll never miss out on an episode.  Be the first ones to hear it as it is sent out to your inbox each week.  Want even more?  Make sure that you go above and click on Just In Health or Really Healthy Now or access straight to us the practitioners.  You can go ahead and send us an email and talk to us one-on-one and even get yourself a free 15-minute consultation.  Dr. Justin even has a free video series on How To Fix Your Thyroid.  So that being said, thank you guys for listening to another episode and coming on.

How’s it going, Dr. Justin?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Baris, it’s going great, man.  How are your holidays?  How was the New Year?

Baris Harvey:  It went awesome.  Got–got some–some new clothes, some new jeans, I’m looking a little dapper so I appreciate that shout out to my mom for that.  How’s it going–how was your holidays?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Holidays are great, very good. I’m restful, got a little–little bit of a cold just kinda leading into the holiday but I was kinda got back on my immune-boosting protocol and I was able to get over it in just a few days and–and I’m, you know, definitely better for it.  I mean, most of the conventional solutions for getting a cold really there aren’t much.  I mean, it’s either get a flu vaccine ahead of time or Tamiflu for the most part.

Baris Harvey:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  But there’s a lot of nutrients in the national medicine realm and that probably is a good podcast that we should do maybe next week.  We’ll–

Baris Harvey:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Add that to the queue.

Baris Harvey:  Yeah, we’ll definitely add that one.  Alright, as a matter of fact, I’ll write that down right now–immune.  Alright, so I–I know one thing for me was like I actually did really well when it came to vaccines because I know a lot of people got sick because, you know, the weather and oftentimes it–it might not even have been the weather, maybe because they’re staying inside more and all that dust accumulates and what not.  I stayed pretty–pretty healthy, to think that I messed up because I didn’t eat that great and that’s when I started feeling like, “I don’t feel like myself.”  So I know people say like, “Oh, does food really make that much of a difference?  And I could tell you, I–I was not–I’m not in my greatest shape, just in, you know, just in that stress off of a couple of weeks.  So, yeah, food makes a big difference.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Absolutely.  I’ve been off a little bit with my exercise but I find diet is, you know, 80% of the game, just choosing some good movement patterns, adding some–some resistance in there, doing some good movements.  You don’t need too much once you’re at a high level to really maintain.

Baris Harvey:  Yeah, definitely.  So–and today, well, before I get to today’s podcast, what did you have for breakfast?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Today was just 4 eggs, sunny side up and some–some butter and MCT in my coffee.  Today was pretty simple.  I’ve been doing a lot more collagen recently because to help, just kinda with hair and skin and just anti-aging and also to help with some of my joints.

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So I’ve been kinda just really rocking out the collagen.  I actually just got my organic acid test back so I’ve tweaked my supplement program a little bit to help improve my health and there’s some things on there, I think we’ll–we’ll talk about in today’s show regarding mood and neurotransmitter health.

Baris Harvey:  Yeah.  Now for the listeners out there, yeah, I remember we’re on a–me and Dr. Justin are on a 2-hour difference right now, so usually for my Friday I kinda, I might have been more relaxed when my–my day’s not always as busy so sometimes I don’t–I don’t wake up as early, so sometimes I usually just wake up and just hop on–hop on the call.  You know, compared before and I hop on the call, so I don’t always eat anything.  So I’ll tell you what I’m gonna eat after.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Nice.

Baris Harvey:  So after the show, I’ll also have some eggs and then I’ll have some organic, you know, not a lot of ingredients because I think when I say sausage, somebody’s gonna think of like, “Oh, sausage, that’s not healthy,” but alright, if you go to the healthy food store, you’ll notice there’s high quality sausage out there and I just keep it simple like that and just, you know, I think so–I think, well, II do fine with dairy especially if it’s higher in fat, so sometimes I like putting in some organic sour cream, and I do fine with that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Nice.  Awesome.

Baris Harvey:  Yeah, so today’s podcast we’re gonna talk about fixing our mood and this is something that can be–can either–either be like sleep, it can be PMS, that’s something that’s almost joked about, and it–and–and people might joke about it but it–but it’s a real concern, a real matter.  And there are other things that, and–and we gotta be careful here because there’s a–there’s a gray area.  We mention things that might sound a little bit more psychological.  We wanna remember that, you know, we don’t wanna say that all drugs are bad or anything of that fashion.  We just have to be smart that there are some people with more severe cases that–that might need more treatment but you can be on the borderline with some of these things and maybe there’s some underlying things that you can fix yourself.  So if you have like a mild depression or like a mild–or even if you do have severe, there are still things you can fix, but just understand that, you know, also talk to your doctor about these things as well.  So, if you have like some depression issues or some obsessive overthinking, anxiety, today is a show for you, and make sure, you know, that you consume as much of this knowledge that you can and because when you’re mood is off, it–it kinda changes who you are.  And I’ve–I’ve noticed myself like get–not get enough sleep and become irritated and all of a sudden like, “That’s not me, I don’t wanna be mean to other people,” so-and I’m pretty sure you–you’ve had that every once in a while, Dr. Justin, where you just–you don’t get enough sleep and maybe ate something bad and all of a sudden someone’s like, “Whoa!  That’s not you.”  And you’re like, “Oh, I’m sorry, that’s totally not how I act.”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Exactly.  So when we deal with these issues we have foundational principles, right?  These are things that we cannot ignore these if we wanna feel good and have a good mood.  So you kinda have already to it sleep.  Sleep is ridiculously important because sleep actually helps us have good sensitivity to blood sugar.  So what that means is they’ve have done studies where they took healthy college kids.  They cut their sleep in half to 4 hours a night.  After 1-2 weeks later, they were insulin-resistant, meaning the cells in their body were–the receptor sites were numb to sugar, to glucose, and they weren’t taking it into the cell properly and the glucose was accumulating in the blood creating free radical stress, right?  And free radical stress are like it’s basically when the body kinda comes in there and can damage the DNA, right?

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So it’s when the body can chip away and–and chip away at the electrons essentially.  Ox–oxidation is nothing more than the loss of electrons and that creates damage to the DNA.  So we wanna really make sure that we have good stable blood sugar and the first way we do that is to getting to sleep on time ideally 10 to 10:30, definitely before midnight, that’s gonna be a great way to make sure our mood is dialed in.  That’s one, from a foundational perspective.

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Two, blood sugar.  So if you have thyroid issues or adrenal issues, we don’t wanna be skipping meals, having enough food that can last us 4-5 hours a day is gonna be huge–or sorry, 4 to 5-hour in-between meals, so having your breakfast within an hour of getting up, eating the right ratios of protein and fat and carbohydrates for you is very important, and you should go about 4-5 hours and you shouldn’t be starving at 4-5 hours.  So those are just some really key foundational principles.  Blood sugar and sleep.  You wanna add to that, Baris?

Baris Harvey:  Yeah, that’s some night we should always make sure that we have down at a basic borderline if you’re not.  If your blood sugar is off, that’s an easy way to get irritable and if you’re not sleeping enough, those are I guess basic foundational thing that you already mentioned so as long as people know that, “Hey, make sure you’re getting enough sleep.”  Those two, basically if those two things aren’t on point, any of these other stuff we’re gonna talk about is just minutia at that point, right?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Exactly, and regarding all the blood sugar stuff, most people are kind of brainwashed regarding blood sugar.  “Oh, my blood sugar drops,” like “Eat a candy bar or something,” or like “Have some candy.”  Like that’s not what we’re talking about here.  So I use a lot of analogies and I think you do as well with your practice and with your patients.  But I always tell patients imagine you got a campfire in front of you, right?  You want that campfire to–you wanna ignite that fire, but you want it to stay lit for a while so you don’t get cold, right?

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And just think of the heat from the energy is like–the heat from the fire is analogous to your energy throughout the day and in-between meals.  So for the most part, the logs in the fire are gonna be really important.  So the logs are like the protein and the fat.

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And by protein, we’re just gonna go out there with the assumption, organic, high quality, you know, grass-fed meat, chicken, fish, beef, skin on, good quality fats from like grass-fed butter, ghee, coconut oil, you know, tallow beef, things like that.  So that’s kinda already lumped in to when we say protein and fat, the quality is already built into that.  So that’s are like the logs in the fire and if anyone’s lit a fire before, they probably know they maybe used a little bit of kindling.  And some of that kindling–

Baris Harvey: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  May be some paper and that paper in real world terms may mean, maybe some low glycemic fruit, berries, things of that nature.  Or maybe eat some vegetables.  Maybe eat some vegetables like broccoli or spinach, right?  And then sometimes we have things like gasoline that we use in the fire and that maybe like sugar, refined sugar or even–

Baris Harvey:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Alcohol.  So if you ever just like have like your match lit and you put a whole bunch of gasoline on it, it goes up and then out.

Baris Harvey:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And that’s kind of analogous to how people’s moods are, right?  They go out, they’re like bouncing off the walls, feeling super good, and then they’re crashing with their head on their desk just a little while later.  So we wanna make sure when that fire’s there, maybe we have 80% to 90% good logs, and then we put maybe a little bit of paper in there, using the right carbohydrate, you know, for your metabolic needs.  If you’re working out that morning, you may put a sweet potato in there.  If you’re trying to lose weight or you’re trying to, you know, eat according to healthy thyroid and adrenal function, you may go lower carb in the morning and ramp up carbs later in the day, kinda like an adrenal reset diet where you go higher carbs at night when cortisol is lower and you maybe go lower carb during the day when cortisol’s higher.  So that’s kind of a good analogy there and just thinking you light that fire, right?  The logs are like the proteins and fats and maybe the kindling is like some of the carbohydrates and just choosing the right kindling that’s appropriate for your metabolism.

Baris Harvey:  Yeah, definitely.  So that sounds great.  You also did a podcast on blood sugar in the past as well, so I’m gonna advise all your guys out there to, you know, search that one up.  I can also put a–a link in there as well on that.  We also–we’d talked a lot about different supplements that you can take or–or foods that can help with–helping your blood sugar and what different cravings mean and how to–how to kind of fix these because yeah, low blood sugar, you’re–you’re gonna end up being stressed out and cranky and irritable and have a headache.  So, yeah–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  No good.

Baris Harvey:   Yeah, no good.  Alright, we mentioned making sure that our–our diet’s right and you know, avoiding the sweet foods and could there also be some specific foods that just might throw people off?  I know some people just don’t do good with caffeine.  Some people might be allergic to certain foods.  What are just some certain foods that are just like no-nos for people?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Well, of course, we have foods like gluten.

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And for the most part I kinda reverse the effects on gluten where gluten is guilty until proven innocent.  Because there’s such a majority of people out there that will benefit from cutting gluten out.

Baris Harvey:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  The fact that gluten is a nutrient-poor food, it’s inflammatory, it doesn’t have the nutrients that we need, it can spike our blood sugar, it’s–can also create leaky guts, and then also it is highly refined with folic acid which a lot of people don’t have the MTHFR genes so then they convert folic acid–they–they can’t convert it and it’s actually can be pretty cancerous.  So there’s so many reason to cut out–

Baris Harvey:  And why and why not eat it versus–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.

Baris Harvey:  To eat it, right?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So a lot of people are like, “Oh well, you know, you’re just being a zealot, you know, not everyone’s gluten-sensitive.”  In my experience, the majority are gluten-sensitive, so I air on the side of cutting it out and keeping it out, that I’m gonna help more people than I hurt from that perspective.  But from the other perspective, the foods you eat on a continuous basis should be nutrient-dense, low in toxins, and anti-inflammatory.  And gluten gets a–a failing grade for all of those category and then we add on the whole folic acid thing and the MTHFR SNP–we’ll save a podcast specific for methylation and MTHFR, but most people can’t covert whether they’re heterozygous MTHFR or homozygous, meaning one gene or two genes, they’re gonna have a hard time converting folic acid into active folate or MTHFR folate.

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So gluten’s gonna be a big way there.

Baris Harvey:  And any other foods you can think of that are inflammatory foods or anything–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Well, anything, omega 6 fatty acids, refined vegetable oils, trans fats, refined sugars.  What sugars are gonna do–the reason why sugar’s so addicting is because when we spike up insulin because insulin gets spiked up because of sugar.  So insulin’s kinda there to pull all that sugar into the cells.

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And so for the first part of that when you’re eating some protein and a whole bunch of sugar, it’s gonna shuttle as much sugar into the cells and into the muscles.  What happens is 5-HTP, L-tryptophan and L-tyrosine tend to have an affinity to cross the blood brain barrier faster while all the other proteins are being shuttled into the muscle and into the cells.  So what happens is we get this huge rush of serotonin and dopamine being converted in the brain because L-tyrosine and 5-HTP, we’ll talk about this, but they are amino acids.

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And all amino acids–let me say it another way–all neurotransmitters are actually made–

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  From protein and amino acids.

Baris Harvey:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So all that protein is, imagine a pearl necklace, right?

Baris Harvey:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  A pearl necklace is the protein and all of the pearls connected to the necklace, those are like amino acids, so a string of pearls together, each individual pearl being an amino acid and then the whole necklace as a–as a whole will be the protein.  So all those amino acids, they actually make up our neurotransmitters.  And neurotransmitters are the little cellular communicators that go in between neurons.  So like take a–kind of give you an analogy here–make a fist, make two fists.  A fist with your left hand and a first with your right hand, and kind of put your knuckles like they’re gonna touch each other right in front of your body, so your knuckles are meeting–

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right in front of your sternum and pull them apart just about an inch or two.  So your left knuckle will be like the presynaptic neuron, that’s where the action potential or the currents, the nerve connectivity flows down.  The space between–

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Your left fist and your right fist is called the synaptic cleft or the pre–the pre-synaptic space.  That’s where a lot of the neurotransmitters accumulate and then–

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  The right hand or the right fist will be the post-synaptic neurons.  So again, the currents flowing from the left fist then we have the neurotransmitter, the pre-synaptic cleft that space there where the neurotransmitters accumulate and the neurotransmitters are like a bridge, a bridge of action potential from the left fist to the right fist.  So we have the pre, which is the one leading up to it.  We have the space, which is the–the–the space in between there where the neurotransmitters accumulate.  And then we have the post-synaptic neuron which is the right fist.  And all of these neurotransmitters actually accumulate in between the pre and post-synaptic neuron.  And these neurotransmitters allow us to feel good, so we have serotonin which allows us to feel kinda happy.  We have dopamine that allows us to feel the “I love you” feeling.  It’s that when we get when we’re in love or what we get when we’re eating a bunch of sugar, we have GABA which can relax us, so these are really important neurotransmitters that allow us to feel good.  Do you wanna elaborate on that, Baris, or break it down a little more?

Baris Harvey:  Yeah, I–I think the analogy you used was great, you know, like either–you wrote down some good notes when you were taking anatomy or you had a great anatomy teacher, like I this–I went ahead and did it myself with the two hands and like that’s almost exactly how like it looks, it’s–it’s–has little bulb at the ends–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Baris Harvey:  And your spinning neurons and that’s where–and so–so basically for people to know we are bioelectrical-chemical beings so there are electric surges that get sent to other cells, our–our neuro cells have these little–actually, you know, just where your–this little space, these little gaps in which their communication that actually happens and then, you know, they send the chemicals and depending on if they can’t absorb it or reabsorb that’s where, you know, problems are gonna happen, right?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Exactly.

Baris Harvey:  So like if someone’s either overstimulated or they can’t reabsorb something appropriate, that’s when, you know, for an example, if someone does cocaine often.  Dopamine is–is the one–the–is gonna shoot out very often, right?  And it’s in–it keeps it in that rather than getting reabsorbed, it keeps it in that synaptic cleft.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Exactly.

Baris Harvey:  And it’s overstimulated and that’s why people feel amazing, I hear.  I’ve never done it before, but I hear people feel amazing and that’s probably why it–it’s extremely addictive.  Not to the same level but that kinda happens with sugar as well, so I’m not saying that sugar is cocaine but there is a similar mechanism and that’s just why, you know, sometimes your sweet tooth wins the battle when it comes to your willpower.  So–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Well, also from that standpoint, there had been studies where they fed rats–the rats had to chance to choose cocaine or Oreo cookies and they found the rats were choosing the Oreo cookies over the–the cocaine and they found the same areas on the brain that were being lit up with the cocaine use were being lit up by the Oreo cookie use.

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So at the same standpoint, you know, one is just, you know, more societally accepted than the other, right?  You know–

Baris Harvey:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  We don’t look too, you know, friendly on, you know, drug abusers in society.

Baris Harvey:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  In my opinion, we should treat them like severe obese people that just can’t–that have no self-control.  It should be looked at between that because people aren’t really getting helped.  Throwing people that are like just neurontally damaged in jail.

Baris Harvey:  Damaged in jail.  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  It’s just not–it’s not fixing the problem and they come out as violent criminals.  So we don’t do that with severe obese people that just can’t–can’t stop eating because that’s like a societally accepted thing.  But what happens is the same parts of the brain are being lit up.

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And what we’re doing with food, what we’re doing with dopamine–excuse me, what we’re doing with cocaine to increase dopamine, what we’re doing with SSRIs or all these drugs, they have one thing in common.  And that is they are changing the location of where these neurotransmitters are.  So again, left fist, right fist, the in between space that’s where the neurotransmitters accumulate.  What they’re doing is, they’re taking all the neurotransmitters that are stored up in this left fist and they’re bringing it out into the middle.  Now here’s where it’s interesting.  When we change the location, when we pull these neurotransmitters out of that left fist and we put it in between in the middle, we get that really good feeling.  But the problem is, the longer they stay outside of the fist and in this space, they break down faster.

Baris Harvey:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So let me say that again, most habits that are drug-induced or sugar-induced, or let’s say it’s like CrossFit extreme exercise-induced or like jumping out of airplanes, any type of like crazy addiction that that’s bringing you negative results in your life, that’s just changing the neurotransmitter location.  And the more you rely on changing the location, the faster these neurochemicals break down, we set you up for long-term destruction because then the amount of neurochemicals that are there drop and those neurochemicals can’t carry the signal from the left fist to the right fist or for the science junkies out there, the pre-synaptic neuron to the post-synaptic neuron.  And that’s important so in–in functional medicine world, we wanna work on things that don’t just change location but actually build up the amount of neurotransmitter in that location.

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.  Because that’s when you start to getting–that’s where it starts to get insensitive, right?  Or–or it’s not communicating the signal strong enough and all of a sudden what used to be, you know, super powerful now you–now the only way you get happy is  with cocaine because nothing is strong enough to–to–to have that feeling, right?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Exactly.  It’s like those Einstein balls.

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So like if you’ve ever seen them in the museum or on like, you know, cooler places there like the little balls that like swing and like hit a ball and the other ball kinda goes up the exact same place and it kinda swings back and forth and hits?

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So if you’re on Google Image, just type in Einstein balls and you know what I’m talking about.  But imagine that first ball hitting and that second ball barely moving.  Like that’s what happens if there’s not enough neurotransmitter in between that left fist or that right fist and most of the drugs, let’s just break down a few drugs like Celexa or Lexapro, you know, these are selective serotonin, that means they’re working on increasing serotonin in the synapse, reuptake inhibitor, that means it’s blocking the body’s ability to pull it back up into the pre-synaptic neuron or that left fist.

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And then you look at other drugs like Wellbutrin, that’s gonna be more of a dopamine inhibitor and there are other drugs for migraines that are norepinephrine inhibitors.  So a lot of these drugs work on just blocking the uptake which in essence changes the location of where these chemicals are.

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.  Yeah, definitely.  And yeah, and–and with our–our brain chemicals, too.  There–there are two different kinds and dopamine being so awesome and so powerful, it kinda fits in both categories but, you know, the inhibitory neurotransmitters and the excitatory neurotransmitters, so making sure that we’re stimulating and the right ones are firing in the brain at a certain time like you don’t–you don’t need norepinephrine firing off at midnight when you’re trying to go to sleep unless, you know, someone’s breaking into the house, and yeah, that would totally–but unless something, you know, is bad happening, you need to–I guess and that can be an–an another way to help with some of our mood issues as–as I guess that’s back to our foundational start we talked about the blood sugar and getting good sleep but relaxation and exercise, you know, exercising is a healthy way to one, get your body moving, get the hormones pushing the right direction but also it might not always feel good when you’re doing it if it’s hard but you feel really good after when you get really good sen–sensation and you’re kinda fixing some of your neurotransmitters but also making sure that regular relaxation, you know, if you’re stressed out all the time you’d–if you’re in a crisis we know that we feel–we don’t feel right, but if it’s–if it’s daily, that’s chronic, and we’re letting maybe that person at work or relationship hinder how we feel in our relaxation and you go to sleep every night not feeling well, you kinda create this vicious cycle. Well, now you can’t, you know, maybe that–that’s causing some longer term depression or it can even cause like other problems.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Those are some really good points, Baris.  So, Baris, let’s talk about some things we can do from a supplemental perspective.

Baris Harvey:  Yeah, that’d be awesome and real–real quick, too.  Just for so some resources that people might wanna know about right before we get into the supplements that I know you’re gonna, as well people the mute them–if I can speak English, The Mood–The Mood Cure by Julia Ross.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Julia Ross, right.

Baris Harvey:  And also Change Your Brain, Change Your Body by Dr.–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Daniel Amen.

Baris Harvey:  Dr. Amen.  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yup.

Baris Harvey:  So those are other great resources, but you go ahead and–and knock some supplement or advice to our listeners.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Absolutely, very good.  So it really depends on what the problem is because a lot of hormones actually–

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Are natural kind of reuptake inhibitors.  So for instance, females especially if they have PMS or any mood issues or disruption in their cycle for instance, you really wanna make sure the hormones and the adrenals are working.  So if a woman has PMS or has issues with progesterone in the second half of the cycle which female hormone symptoms have to do with the combination of estrogen dominance which has to do with progesterone being lower than its ideal ratio in relation to estrogen.  Typically there should be like a 23 to 25 time more amount of progesterone to estrogen and when it drops–when it drops in that ratio, we can start having symptoms.  We can start having excessive bleeding.  We can start having moodiness.  We can start having breast tenderness.  So all of these things can easily be fixed by getting the adrenals and the female hormones working again.

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Now on that note, we talked about blood sugar and sleep earlier if you don’t make those changes, the sleep and blood sugar and stuff, you will never ever, ever and I hate using absolutes, but for the most part it’s just true and I think you would agree–if you don’t get the blood sugar and the sleep on track, you will never be able to get the hormones on track no matter how fancy a supplement program we make.

Baris Harvey:  Yeah, definitely.  Or you can’t sleep 4 hours a night and eat candy all the time and then take a pill.  It’s not gonna work that way.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Exactly.  So at most females for instance, we really wanna make sure that we get the hormones dialed in and the adrenals are gonna be an important component of that.  So that’s gonna be one of the most important parts right there.  And also if a woman has low progesterone that second half of the cycle, they’re gonna be excessively.  When they bleed excessively, then they’re gonna be low on iron and if they’re low on iron, they’re not gonna be able to carry oxygen properly which then–we’re not gonna be able to have aerobic metabolism when we’re burning fat and oxygen for fuel efficiently and then iron’s needed to make thyroid hormone as well.  So it’s like this vicious cycle when female hormones get off, all of these other problems start to occur.

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.  Yeah, definitely.  And–and I know, you know, a lot about this topic and the thyroid is gonna have–have in accord with our energy and our mood, right?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Exactly.

Baris Harvey:  You feel lethargic and you’re probably not the happiest person in the world.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Exactly.  So that kinda leads us into the next thing, we have kind of our hormone centers.  We have ATF for females and ATM for males, meaning–

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Adrenals, thyroid, male hormones or adrenals, thyroid, and female hormones.  And we wanna make sure those are balanced at some level and by balance, we can kinda push the female hormones or the thyroid back into the right place but if there are other issues pulling it out, we really have to make sure the root causes are–are being addressed.

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So on that notes–on that note, looking at thyroid is important.  They did a study where a third of the people who are depressed, they found had low thyroid function and when they just got their thyroid fixed, depression was gone.  So a lot of mood issues can be fixed just by getting the thyroids or getting the adrenals or getting the female hormones working better.  So that’s why you really don’t want to have like a symptom-based approach.  You really want a systems-based–based approach because if you look at the systems that are out of balance and you just start nudging them back into balance and you make the diet and lifestyle and sleep changes along with it, half of those people with mood issues are gonna be fixed off the bat.

Baris Harvey:  Yeah, okay.  A real big one that we can all–and I–I think we talked about–we might have talked about this before so I’m gonna go ahead and–and look it up and link it if–if necessary, but PMS that can really throw off some–someone and I know one thing that I notice a lot with the women in my life that have had that, they also sometimes have heavy cycles and end up being anemic or need to watch their iron because iron totally make an interplay with like PMS or what are some other things that a woman can do if she has PMS?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So off the bat–off the bat there with PMS, you really want to get to the root cause–

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So the blood sugar and the sleep is kinda really important, the adrenals are really important.  With some patients depending on their progesterone, we’ll use a cyclical augmentation program where we actually modulate and give small amounts of progesterone during the second half of the cycle to really get the progesterone levels back on track.

Baris Harvey:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Now once that kinda gets on track, we also see that the bleeding becomes less and we can even use herbs such as Chaste tree or Vitex agnus.  We can even use estrogen-modulating herbs like Dong quai or black cohosh and such to really help kind of modulate those things, and remember these hormones actually have an effect on the reuptake of neurochemicals.  So we kinda already talked about how when we block the reuptake of neurochemicals that may be a bad thing–

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  But if we’re blocking the reuptake by just restoring normal physiology that may not be necessarily be a bad thing because we’re just trying to push the body back into balance.  We’re not trying to make it–we’re not trying to use hormones or supplements like a drug, we’re trying to use them to push normal physiology back and if–if those hormones help and provide enough blocking activation to make the person feel better, well, the issue may have just been hormonal imbalance driving that neurochemical imbalance and that neurochemical imbalance is restored to normal function.  So maybe it’s just the hormones that are actually causing the reuptake issue.

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Like monoamine oxidase or MAO is a specific drug out there.  Now if we can do something via natural means, it’s always better because natural means tend to have more, how should I say it?  They have more homeostatic mechanisms involved.

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So there’s more sensors, if you will, to make sure things are working properly.  When we use the drug, there’s just one objection.  It’s to block–

Baris Harvey:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  An enzyme or to inhibit some type of pathway and there aren’t quite as many feedbacks letting things to know that, you know, we’re imbalanced.

Baris Harvey:  Yeah, I hear this would be like fix even one specific thing but if the body doesn’t–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  They whack ‘em all.

Baris Harvey:  Yeah, exactly.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Whack ‘em all.

Baris Harvey: Your body is like–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  You pop one down and another one comes up.

Baris Harvey:  Yeah, like “Okay, why did that happen?”  We don’t know.  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Exactly.

Baris Harvey:  Whereas, you know, you eat a food and there are so many different chemicals and signals in there and helps boost certain area but it also just like works in rhythm with your own body.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Exactly.

Baris Harvey:  Right, definitely.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So the next perspective is we can actually give amino acids to help–

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  With boosting up the location of these neurotransmitters. So for instance we have 5-HTP which is a precursor to serotonin and we have L-tyrosine which is a precursor to dopamine.  Now when we do this with a lot of patients, I–I recommend using 5-HTP over L-tryptophan because there’s an enzymatic regulation where you only can make so much serotonin from L-tryptophan.  With some people that may have damage or made them in higher amounts than normal, you wanna use 5-HTP because you’re not gonna have that capacitor or that–what do they call it when–when it prevents it from getting higher or they have it in cars for instance that prevent the engine from going too hot?  I forget the term.  It will come to me in a minute there, but it’s–it’s basically preventing the transmission and the conversion of serotonin.  But if you use 5-HTP–I’m sorry that term is governor.  If you have a governor on something–

Baris Harvey:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  The governor prevents it from going too high.  So the governor is taken off when you give 5-HTP so you can actually get higher levels of serotonin than if you just gave L-tryptophan instead.  So I like 5-HTP.  The key is we have to give it with B6, that’s really important.  We need B6 to actually help convert 5-HTP to serotonin and I always give for the most part starting out 5-HTP and L-tyrosine in a balanced formula of 10:1 so 10 times more L-tyrosine than 5-HTP.  So if we’re dealing with 100 units of 5-HTP, we wanna have a thousand units or 1,000 mg of L-tyrosine.  And that’s important because the same enzymes that metabolize 5-HTP which is the amino acid decarboxylase enzyme, that amino acid is the same one that metabolizes L-tyrosine.  So if we’re stimulating this enzyme to–to break down 5-HTP and we’re giving more 5-HTP and this enzyme’s upregulated and we don’t have an additional amount of L-tyrosine there along with it, we can start creating deficiency because of us upregulating that enzyme.  So you always wanna give this long-term, right?  More than a month or two.  You wanna give them in conjunction and ideally with B6 and ideally being on other good multivitamin with B12 and folate and all the other nutrients as kinda there as a blanket to make sure that there’s no nutrients that are missing for neurotransmitter metabolism.

Baris Harvey:  Yeah, definitely.  That sounds good.  And I know that that some people will do really good with 5-HTP like you mentioned and whether that be in a smaller or a larger dose of L-tryptophan, but also there are some people that do–do really well with a GABA.  The gamma-aminobutyric acid–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Baris Harvey:  Which is our–that natural tranquilizer like a chemical which kinda relaxes us and loosens us up kinda and–and I know I’ve used before in the past as well.  So I–I’ve actually taken–I think it’s Source Naturals, but they had this Theanine Serene which have like–had a little bit of GABA and theanine and I think some magnesium and some other natural herbs, those are really nice.  I forget the formula off the top of my head.  But tell us a little bit about GABA and how that can help you sleep.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So GABA can be helpful, there’s a–this is kind of a controversial school of thought so–

Baris Harvey:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I’m a big fan of Marty Hinz.  He does a lot of research on neurotransmitters.  Basically, he’s like the catch-all guy that neurotransmitters can fix everything.

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And in the functional medicine world, we wanna be careful of absolutes.  I think neurotransmitters can be a real powerful tool in your tool belt to address any type of mood-related issue.

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  But I think we also need a good functional medicine model where we don’t, you know, throw the baby out with the bathwater.  So I think it’s important.  So without the GABA, if you look at Marty Hinz’s type of perspective, he says that dopamine and se–serotonin are gonna be the master regulators of GABA.

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Meaning that if we work on dopamine and serotonin, the GABA kind of takes care–takes care of itself if you will.  Now on that note, I’ve seen patients that do well with GABA.

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  But on the same standpoint, you talk to other people like people that are in Dr. Kharrazian’s camp, they’ll say that GABA cannot cross the blood brain barrier, it is too big, it is too large, the research paper say this, and the only reason why you’d have an effect with GABA is because you have a leaky gut/leaky brain–

Baris Harvey:  Leaky brain.  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And then the GABA is passing in there and having that type of an effect.

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Now personally myself, GABA does nothing to me.

Baris Harvey:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I have a lot of patients where it’s done nothing and I have had some where they swear by it.  So is that true or is it not?  Well, it’s hard to say.  And with so many people–

Baris Harvey:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Having leaky guts, maybe there’s more people out there that have leaky brains than we think–

Baris Harvey:  Right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  They actually benefit from GABA.  But I like Hinz’s school of thought that we really wanna deal with the master neurotransmitters because a lot of times when we deal with the masters, everything kinda gets taken–

Baris Harvey:  Taken care of.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And can put back in balance, taken care of, exactly.

Baris Harvey:  Yeah, definitely.  Sounds good.  That sounds good.  And I know that there’s–there’s, you know, a lot of stuff when it comes to all these things and–and we talked about the making sure we get the basic functional–make sure you get your sleep, make sure you relax, make sure you have a healthy mood, and your blood sugar’s regulated.  I mean some–some other functional stuff, you know, anti-inflammatory diet, you know, making sure your vitamin D levels are in check, and you know, you’re taking your fish oil and–and there’s a lot of specifics.  So for–for people that might have a specific question, I urge you to go to and we have a tab that says Questions.  You can leave us a question.  You can click on the tab that says Just In Health and Contact Dr. Justin for a one-on-one consultation if you wanna look further into this, you can also contact me as well.  So yeah, you wanna go ahead and–and–and add–and add some?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, absolutely.  So we also look at some of the neurotransmitter conversion with dopamine and according to Dr. Dan Kalish who has done thousands of neurotransmitter testing with DBS Labs, he’s found that most people tend to be dopamine dominant–or sorry–I’m sorry dopamine­-deficient, meaning they actually need more dopamine.  So when we look at dopamine, we were thinking L-tyrosine.  That’s gonna really improve dopamine conversion.  Now if we’re doing this whole 10:1 ratio, that’s a good starting point, right?  Maybe 100 mg of 5-HTP to 1,000 of L-tyrosine, maybe bringing that up to 300 mg 5-HTP to 3,000 L-tyrosine, that’s a good place.  We also need sulfur-based amino acids for healthy conversion of dopamine.

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Okay, what that means is this.  We have dopamine that gets converted from L-tyrosine, and that dopamine that goes from L-DOPA to dopamine and then it goes to norepinephrine.  And norepinephrine to have that conversion from dopamine to norepinephrine, we need some certain nutrients there, alright?

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So norepinephrine to go to epinephrine needs sulfur-based amino acids and there’s two main ones that you could use.  SAMe or methionine or cysteine.  So cysteine’s a pretty rare one.  Dr. Hinz uses cysteine.  I’d use little–I use L-methionine instead because it’s a little bit more cost-effective than SAMe.  SAMe is pretty expensive.

Baris Harvey:  Yeah, it is.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So I’ll use L-methionine with patients instead and L-methionine will really help with that conversion of norepinephrine to epinephrine, right?

Baris Harvey:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So one more time, right?  We need dopamine to go to L-DOPA.  L-DOPA then goes to norepinephrine and then to get norepinephrine to epinephrine, we need the sulfur-based amino acids and that’s where SAMe, cysteine, or L-methionine.  And I urge you not to use NAC.  The research had been kind of on the fence about this, but most people just say, “Hey, NAC is not gonna be what you need to make that conversion.”

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I think you’re just better off from a cost-effective perspective, if you could go with the methionine anywhere between 1,500 mg to 3–3 g or 3,000 mg is a good way to go.

Baris Harvey:  And the–so you–you probably recommend not using like L-DOPA itself as a supplement using the precursors instead, correct?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So regarding using pure L-DOPA, it’s possible there are things such as mucuna pruriens or velvet bean where you can extract L-DOPA directly from that which is actual L-DOPA.  Now that’s really interesting.  I’ve had an experience using L-DOPA.  I don’t recommend using that unless you are working with a practitioner.

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I used it and I literally felt like–

Baris Harvey:  Literally, too strong.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, I felt like I was incredibly spacey, felt like I was walking around drunk, like it was a terrible experience and I’m like–

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Alright I’m gonna do this–this was like 5 or 6 years ago when I was like in the middle of finals–

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And studying for a really big exam and I’m like, “I’m gonna boost up dopamine because dopamine helps with focus.”  And I just overdid it and it was terrible because I couldn’t study the whole day because I felt so spacey.  I felt like I was drunk.

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So I said, “Alright, this is a lesson learned.”  So I strongly recommend you do not use L-DOPA unless you are working with a trained functional medicine physician.

Baris Harvey:  Uh-hmm.  Right.  I know that–I forgot when I first saw that  and I-I’ve never used it myself so I can’t really give my 2 cents on it but I remember, it’s gonna probably like a–a long time ago when I was just looking for supplement–like workout supplements and those like supposed to help with boosting testosterone and what not, and that’s when I first–but after researching it, I mean I might do a little bit of that but it’s more so with the–with the dopamine-like response.  Yeah, you-you know the opposite like effect, gotta be careful with that, what you supplement with.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Exactly and this whole sulfur-based amino acid cascade adrenal fatigue, right?  Where we’re hyper secreting or maybe it’s fatigue where our cortisol’s actually bottomed out, we’re also gonna be kinda whipping the tired horse of adrenal or norepinephrine to epinephrine, so that’s gonna be low as well.  So that’s why adrenal fatigue is really important to helping to fix this whole pathway.

Baris Harvey:  Yeah, definitely.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So I think a good starting dose for anyone here that says, “Alright, well, what–I wanna use some of these sulfur amino acids.  I wanna use some of these neurotransmitter supports.”  I think a safe dose would be 300 mg of 5-HTP followed with 3,000 mg of L-tyrosine with some sulfur-based amino acids, anywhere between 1500 to 3 grand of L-methionine will be a really good starting point.  And just to make sure the 5-HTP you’re getting has B6 in it and make sure you’re on a high quality multivitamin with B12 and activated MTHFR folate and if you need support with this, feel free and you can reach out to either Baris or myself because we do this stuff with patients every day.

Baris Harvey:  Definitely make a part 2 to this because–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.

Baris Harvey:  I know, I mean we could so long ahead of this stuff and I–I think we got a good foundation here.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.

Baris Harvey:  We got some things for people with irritability.  I know like myself and also like, I know mentioned in the beginning like anxiety and some of the overthinking like stuff.  We’re gonna make a part 2 for you and we’re gonna, you know, go into the hormones, estrogen, and the different supplements and neurotransmitters to help you with anxiety and mood and that as well.  So kinda like you had the depression on one side and then the overthinking on the other side and we’ll get to that one as well.  But again, go to, go to Sign Up to the Newsletter.  You know, make sure that you won’t miss part 2 and you’ll get it right in your inbox.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Well, we’re gonna really work on increasing the frequency of the podcast.  We’re gonna try to do 1 a week to really kind of get everyone’s brain candy addiction in for the week hopefully.

Baris Harvey:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And if you guys got any feedback or have any feedback on show tips or topics you want addressed, feel free and reach out and I think it’s question, slash question, and you can speak your question to us or you can drop us a line and we’ll be more than willing to, you know, listen to what people wants and–want and create show topics based on the needs of our listeners.



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