How to Retrain Your Brain, Amygdala and Heal From Trauma – Ashok Gupta | Podcast #378

Hey, guys! In this video, Dr. J and Ashok Gupta talk about brain reach training and nutritional component to better well-being. The brain is a highly active and malleable learning machine. So, we can develop strategies to improve well-being, like engaging in new and challenging activities.

Therefore, we can influence our brain development in positive or negative directions. The more we engage and challenge our minds and body, the longer our brains function at a high level. There are also many other benefits to encouraging neuroplastic change.

Moreover, for the brain to function correctly, it needs specific nutrients, making the food we eat vital to brain function. To learn more about improving your brain function in areas such as memory, attention, focus, and sleep while eliminating symptoms of anxiety and depression, make sure to subscribe, check out other videos, and feel to reach out for more info & consults!

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

In this episode, we cover:

0:00 – Introduction
2:17 – Amygdala
13:05 – Repetition and Self-Love
16:22 – Breathing patterns
21:33 – Techniques
24:24 – Nutritional component
29:17 – Program Transition
32:10 – CBT vs Brain Reach Training

https://youtube.com/live/yCbh580EZ7s

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey guys! It’s doctor Justin Marchegiani here. I’m really excited for today’s podcast. We’re going to be talking about how to retrain your brain, your amygdala, and heal from trauma with Ashok Gupta. Ashok, really great to have you today. How are you doing? Welcome to the show. 

Ashok Gupta: Hi, I’m very well. Thank you. Thank you for the invitation. Lovely to be here.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Awesome. Well, in the functional medicine world, dealing with a lot of chronically sick people that have hormone issues, gut issues, when you’re doing a really good history on someone, you see a commonality and that there’s a lot of underlying emotional trauma that usually can be a big stressor in that stress bucket, that’s holding back healing. And so I wanted to get you on the show because you’re an expert in this and you have a program that really works on getting to the root cause. So I wanted to just kind of first talk about kind of, you know, what you’re passionate about and kind of what your goal is with your program out of the gates.

Ashok Gupta: Uh, yeah, absolutely. So just to give a bit of background to myself, I actually suffered from a chronic illness many, many years ago when I was studying as an undergrad at Cambridge. So I actually suffered from chronic fatigue syndrome. And it was, you know, I was a young guy in my early 20s. My whole life had suddenly had this brick wall which is a chronic illness. And I’m seeing doctors and specialists and they’re telling me we don’t know what causes it. There’s no treatment for it. You may have this the rest of your life. Good luck. Essentially, you know, I remember my darkest moment thinking this is the worst thing ever. If I  can just get myself better. If I and thousands of others who suffering from this. And I said if I can just heal this one person, just even myself. I would dedicate the rest of my life to helping people with this condition. That’s how serious I was about it. And that spawned a lifelong quest to understand these conditions and really treat them. So I did a lot of research into brain neurology, understanding these conditions, and eventually I came up with a hypothesis. I got myself completely, 100% better using ad hoc parade brain retraining that I created and also the clinic to treat others and have published other papers as well. So that’s my journey, so my real passion and vision here is that I believe that brain reach training as we refine it better for these conditions could be the future to treat chronic illness and I want that to be embedded in primary care and that is my mission.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s excellent. Now I know you talked about with your Gupta program, we’ll put links down below to so you guys can access this. I know there’s some kind of introductory you know offers on the on the website where you can kind of take a look and kind of dip your toe in and see if you like if you talk about Neuroplasticity, which is obviously, you know, rewiring the brain in the sense so these neurons can’t connect in different ways, but you also talk about the amygdala, which is kind of the part of the brain, it’s like an almond size and it’s all about processing fear and threatening stimuli. And so when someone is chronically ill, is that part of the brain over active where where you’re seeing everything as a threat and it’s kind of always on talk a little bit more about the amygdala, how that plays in to these chronic health concerns. 

Ashok Gupta: Yeah, absolutely. So I always like to start this explanation with the biggest question of all. Why are we here? And I love that. Half an hour long conversation about the philosophy of that. But let’s say from a scientific perspective, we’re here because this brain, this body, this nervous system has been trained over millions of years to adapt to the environment, to survive and pass on the genes the next generation from. So from a Darwinian perspective, this system is designed to adapt, thrive, survive and pass on genes. And this has come from, you know, plants, single cell organisms, invertebrates, vertebrates, reptiles, mammals, human beings, all of that, that DNA. And that growth is all within our own DNA. And in fact, you know, we share around 50% of our DNA with a banana. Right. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:That’s crazy.

Ashok Gupta: Uh, you know, so our team actually contains a lot of the DNA of their animals as we’ve evolved to get to where we are so this system is designed to survive, so the number one priority of our bodies is not actually well-being or health.The number one priority is survival. If we take that as a starting point, the way that these illnesses start is that. Let’s take the example of COVID and long COVID, because we know millions are suffering from COVID and the after effect. So imagine we get collection normally, our bodies trigger the immune system, they’re able to fight off the virus, then the system resets, goes back to normal. We have our health back but in a small number of cases where actually 10 to 20% of cases. What happens is if our system is a little. Let’s say tired, fatigued or we are mentally, emotionally, physically overdoing it.Then the system is more vulnerable. So when the virus comes, our immune system thinks right. We’ve got to really fight hard because our systems would speak so it over response towards the virus and we know that for instance, people who passed away from COVID, they’re not passing away from the infection, they’re passing away from the cytokines storm or the over inflammation from the body itself and so what happens is in COVID we believe that the system over response we still managed to fight off the virus, but it’s left the legacy in the brain which is, let’s turn on the side of caution because maybe the virus is still here, so the brain continues to trigger immune system and the nervous system inappropriately. Creating this cascade of symptoms in the body. And we believe the culprits, as you’ve mentioned, are the amygdala and the insular. So the emitter that we believe is where the core conditioning lies in terms of triggering the nervous system and the sympathetic nervous system and then for the immune system. We know they’re from animals, this comes from the insular part of the brain, the insular part of the brain, is getting over triggered and overstimulated, so both these structures keep triggering this over different responses creating symptoms in the body. And the brain detects in a hypothetical way, all of these symptoms. The body which comes up to the brain, the brain says, Oh, maybe we’re still in danger. Yeah, just like in this diagram. Yeah, #9 we’re still in danger, then triggers at #4 and five. The chronic sympathetic arousal, the immune dysfunction HPA abnormalities, which then creates symptoms to #6 and then at #8, the brain because it’s hyper hypersensitive, magnifies these signals.They come back in the bank #9 and we are caught in this vicious cycle, and this is a vicious cycle of a lot of these different conditions and the only difference here which we certainly always are. Fibromyalgia is pain or chronic fatigue is immune oriented such as long COVID, but we also get sensitivity reactions to the external environment, so more disease, chemical sensitivities and muscle activation. This is where external triggers and food sensitivities. External triggers now create this cascade and this. Despite all this vicious cycle. And an analogy, I don’t know any doctor, you were a fan of Game of Thrones? 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, it’s a great show. Yep.

Ashok Gupta: So, let’s say an example of imagine you’re the the king of the castle, OK, and your Kingdom is suffering a drought and your army is the sympathetic nervous system and your Navy is immune system, so imagine the kingdoms you know weak because of the droughts and incoming army invading army with some dragons over the hill, right? So your immune system and nervous system your army and navy responds. They fight off this invading army. But because they’re weak, it takes them a lot longer to fight it off. Once they fought it off, they come to you as king of the castle and say, hey Doctor J, we only just managed to fight off that incoming invasion. We need all of the resources of the Kingdom, the castle now, channel us so all the wheat, all the corn, all the metal, everything comes to us, and you agree because it made sense. And so now all the sources of the body go to the Army and Navy. And then even if a child is walking over the hill. The Army, Navy respond as if it’s a full blown threat and trigger your machine using up all the resources and hence we get stuck in that alternative way being that lack of homeostasis? And so bring me training is saying actually, we need to persuade the general, the Army, Navy, that we are no longer in threat, no longer in danger to switch off these responses and get back to normal. So that, in a nutshell, is the hypothesis.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That makes sense. I mean, it’s good to have an amygdala that’s making connections, that’s a processing threat. It’s like if there was this woods over here and bears would come out and eat, eat a human, you know, you there’s probably be natural inclination to have some fear and anxiety about being close to that because we already know there’s a threat that could take your life, so it’s good to have this level of fear perception. The problem with a lot of trauma today is it’s firing off like it would take your life, but it’s really maybe not that serious anymore. And we kind of have to it there. We need to have this rational discussion with our amygdala and our brain hit, this isn’t maybe as much of a threat and so obviously may not be, may not be able to do that from a conscious ability where we can just have that conversation. So what type of modalities are you incorporating to make that connection? Hey this is, this shouldn’t be the threat that it is. My amygdala is hyper responding. It’s like having an allergy response to danger in the air like it’s a virus. Well we shouldn’t be responding that way. So what type of modalities are you using or techniques within your program to kind of get that response to be more appropriate and realistic. 

Ashok Gupta: Exactly. And as you say, traditionally these types of approaches have been applied to emotional reaction actions or trauma reactions, right? OK, so the emotional side, but how do we communicate with our immune system, right, it’s a very, very different approach and so what we’ve done over the last 20 years is develop a system and set of processes that actually communicate with these unconscious brain structures about physical health, yeah. And you might say, well, hang on this, you know, how on Earth can you do that? How can we kind of change our physiological responses? But, you know, as we know, the power of visualization is very, very powerful. So let’s take an example of a lemon. Right. So imagine I take a slice of lemon. And I placed it on your tongue. But you can’t bite into it yet. But it’s really it’s hanging really sour. Just on your tongue, you bite into that sour lemon. Just right. Imagine doing that. Imagine all the saliva starts coming up. Now imagine so you got saliva coming in your mouth, by the way? 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh yeah, that visualization. Yeah, for sure. 

Ashok Gupta: Yeah. So isn’t that incredible that we’ve been able to create a physiological response just through the power of imagination, even though you know it’s not real consciously. You can bypass the conscious processes and imagination, visualization is one aspect. OK, that’s one aspect of this brain retraining. But there’s plenty of other processes. So there’s a seven step process where we get people to recognize these unconscious data signals. So then process them and they actually create a safety response to the brain.  Say hey brain, we are safe. We are not in danger. You can switch off these. Uh.These immune responses and these defensive responses, and that uses a number of different techniques including self coaching, breathing, visualization and imagination and also you know, physical touch as well, so there’s a number of different processes and that supported through meditation and breathing as well.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s excellent. So, what’s the first step out of the gate? Right, we start out of the gate. What’s the first thing we’re going to do to kind of move the needle? Is it just breathing? Is it really just making sure we’re breathing to the nose? Uh, having a deeper breath. What’s the first step out of the gate? 

Ashok Gupta: So out of the gate before our brain is ready to be retrained. As you say it becomes. Alright, so it’s a bit like the idea of until we were able to accept something first and become, we can no longer give if the brain’s not so flexible if we are stressed and anxious. So give the example of, if the husband and wife come home after today’s work and have an argument because they’re both stressed, that’s the worst time for them to have an argument. If they calm down, relax, etcetera, then they’re more likely to have more conducive conversation. So in the same way we calm our brains first through breathing and meditation, so they are supportive techniques, and then, we look at the brain retraining. That’s the second R. So the first R is relaxing. The second R is retraining the brain, and that’s where I’ve talked about these unique processes. And the third is reengaging with joy. And this is something that is often neglected in mainstream medicine, which is that we know that actually when people are unable to connect with things that uplift their spirit that bring them joy and happiness. Their immune system is bolstered. They actually are able to heal from a wide range of different conditions, so we teach people to recognize what can boost their immune system and reset it. Use this idea of reengaging with joy, which is I think it’s a missing piece of medicine.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent. And then what type of I don’t like? NLP’s been out there for a while where they used a lot of visualizations and really focus on the pictures kind of in your brain, how much does visualization and just kind of the images that come within your brain, because a lot of times people have a fear. There’s almost always the image of that thing before that fear is felt. How do you start to change the images in that brain and maybe the self talk. A lot of times, most people wouldn’t be friends with the person if they’re self-talk was emanated from a friend in front of them. The amount of self-talk that’s so negative and so putting themselves down. If it was a friend then in real life they would never be friends with that person. How do you change the pictures and the voice inside the brain? 

Ashok Gupta: So this is a great question, and the core of this is repetition and self love. So it’s a bit like imagining that self-talk is a precocious 7 or 8 year old child, right? And we want to kind of get really anxious about something. If you tell them one time, hey, this is nothing to worry about. They’re not going to listen. But with that love and that compassion and that action and that repetition of look, hey, we’re safe. There’s nothing to worry about if you can calm down. Through that process, you’re able to gradually get the brain to recognize we’re no longer in danger, and a representation is absolutely key and imagination and visualization is part of it, but not the only part of it. Any change in life involves awareness. We have to be aware first of all of what is that negative self-talk is. What does it look like? Let’s write it down. Let’s be very clear. What is creating this vicious cycle, that’s the first step, is awareness. And from that point onwards, and that is acceptance. So a lot of people have these conditions but don’t accept that they have this condition. They’re constantly fighting it, pushing against it. That’s tensing up against it. Resisting it, which then creates more anxiety, more turmoil. So the first step is awareness and the second step is acceptance, then the first step is this process of repetitive retraining of the brain again and again and again. And so the brain gets the message that we aren’t in danger and switches off these responses and that’s the core of how do we get people well?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very good. So what’s the next step? So your program out of the gates, what, 28 days? 

Ashok Gupta: Yes. So we offer a 28 day free trial where people can access some of the videos, some of the audio. And get a flavor of the program and see if it’s right for them. So that’s the first starting point, we’d love people to experience the free stuff that we’ve got lots of videos and if they choose to take the full program then it is what we call a six month program. Now, why do we say six months? Because that seems like a long time. Actually many people retrain within weeks and months. But we don’t want people to become complacent because I’m still a doctor J. You’ve seen in your practice, as well that people get well from some kind of protocol, but then as soon as a new stress comes into their lives, wow, all the symptoms come back again. Yep. So we teach people not only to get well, but to stay well, to recognize our stress triggers, to recognize what brings back these symptoms and to control that and to you know, uh, recognize that for the rest of their lives when people stay well. We call it a six month program because we want people to get so deeply into retraining that it becomes part of their lives and so that they can maintain that health for the rest of their lives. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s great. And what do you find? I mean, obviously the goal was to try to activate some of the parasympathetic nervous system response, right? If that amygdala is overactive, then we’re in that sympathetic fight or flight that can shut down digestion enzymes, hydrochloric acid can cause cortisol and adrenaline fluctuations that can cause more stress, the more you dump out your electrolytes, your potassium, magnesium that causes the heart to go go faster so you can see this downward cycle with this sympathetic nervous system response with all the different hormonal systems, digestive system, what’s the when you talk, when you do breathing, right? What’s the type of breath pattern that you find to be the most effective that you incorporate?

Ashok Gupta: Right, so there are several. The first is deep diaphragmatic breathing during the 4-4-6-2 pattern. So that’s when people put their yeah, one hand on the stomach, one hand on the chest. Many of us are breathing very shallow from the chest, and we know that, parasympathetic breathing or from the belly, the belly is going out and in as we breathe. And so this is actually a technique that’s taught in the art of living cause, art  of living breathing, which is, if you’ve heard about it, a very powerful breathing technique. Yeah, part of their breathing technique is to actually breathe in for four. Hold for four. Breathe out for six and hold for two. All through the nose, all through the nose. So we know that it actually comes in and out through the nose. What that’s able to do is a combat nervous system has been used for millennia. And another technique is alternate nostril breathing as well. So you breathe it in through one nostril, breathe out through the other nostril, then in through that nostril out through the other one. So that’s another very well known breathing technique called alternate nostril breathing. In Sanskrit it’s called 90 shorthand. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And these are breathing in and out to the same and then switch in and out then switch. 

Ashok Gupta: Yeah. So. So now when you do that, you’re breathing in from through what? And breathing out through the other. Oh, okay, they’re breathing in through that one. And then breathing out through the other. And then breathing in through that. And then breathing out.Yeah, yeah.And what people find is gradually as they control the breathing, but not control in an anxious way, but just observe it great breathing becomes slower and deeper. Easing that process is balancing the left and right hemispheres of the brain. That’s one of the roles of alternate nostril breathing. And so that’s kind with regular meditation as the starting point. What that is able to do is to tell the brain, hey, just calm everything down at the generalized level and then we’ll be ready to retrain those specific neurons that have got caught in this vicious loop.To indicate that we’re in danger. And so that is the, you know, a very complementary approach. And I think what happens is in modern medicine we have this reductionist philosophy of OK, nothing to do is test breathing techniques over here and see what impact they have. And now going to test meditation techniques over here in a separate randomized controlled trial. That actually is the cumulative effect of all of these things together, which is able to persuade the brain to switch off these dangerous purposes. So, that is the most important thing is to have all of these things operating at the same time.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s excellent. That’s very cool. So I like the breathing aspect, and the goal of that is to activate the parasympathetic nervous system. What should your brain be focusing on to just be focusing on the breath? When do you start to incorporate the trauma or whatever that memory is that’s triggering you? I don’t know. Let’s say you got in the car accident. Every time you jump in the car, you’re reliving that trauma. When do you start bringing those pictures or that experience into work? 

Ashok Gupta: So first of all the program is not necessarily a trauma relief program, yeah although people use it for that and they do find trauma, and as you say, the purpose of the way that we teach breathing and meditation is that yes, images will come up as you meditate. Some of them might be frightening. People sometimes spontaneously burst into tears as they’re experiencing these techniques. And the most important thing is not to get caught up in any imagery or any emotions, just to observe it. So we’re not pushing away any of it, and we’re also not trying to obsess about it. We are staying calm and centered as we observe with a curious mind the images and the negative things that may come up. And that is one way and one technique of releasing trauma is to simply observe with a neutral friendly mind. Allow it to just come up with that. Trying to pick it apart or try to analyze or understand it. And what we say is that actually people can heal from chronic illness without actually having to heal their trauma. This is so important because I think this is a missed thought sometimes. For most people, they had trauma in their lives, but they didn’t have chronic illness that layered on top. So the best thing is to remove that layer of chronic illness and then deal with the underlying trauma. At the same time, there’s no fixed up, you know, dogma here. Of course, if people want to address their underlying trauma at the same time, that’s absolutely fine. And some people do. Alternately, Uh, treating and healing the chronic illness first we find is most effective because if you have a chronic illness and you’re trying to overcome trauma at the same time, that’s a lot to actually process and and and deal with.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That makes sense. And so you get the breathing stuff going on. You’re really working on self love, right, that’s important. And do you incorporate any tapping or eye boob and stuff? I know there’s a lot of big techniques like EFT or EMDR or different things. Do you incorporate those modalities in your program?

Ashok Gupta: We have another technique called the accelerator process, which is something that we’ve created and that does not involve tapping necessarily. But a lot of our coaches trained in EFT and other modalities. So we give a core set of techniques to the patients and if they want tapping, if they want some of these other things and many of our coaches are trained in those modalities as well. So that’s if people need one-on-one support. So our program is an online program in which people can go through it at their own time at their own pace and there’s extra support from coaches as required.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s great. What other modalities? We’re going to put links down below, so if anyone listening wants to try the 28 day course, that’s going to be an option down below in the links as well as the whole 6 month program. If you feel like you’re getting success and you want to continue with that good consistency, we’ll put links down below. What’s another good thing for listeners at home to start to incorporate, to start improving their mental health and calm down that amygdala response, that fear response?

Ashok Gupta: So I think regular meditation first of all is incredibly important and then secondly, I missed the core point of retraining is just awareness of the noise. Yeah, to regularly check your stuff. And that’s a mindfulness technique, say, to think about what you’re thinking about. Ah, how interesting. I’m thinking about that. And to actually write these things down to have what we call a worry diary. Yeah, not that we want to reinforce it, but kind of getting stuff out of your head and onto this worry diary, almost like a journaling type process. So what kind of thoughts have I had today? Let me get it out of my head in general. OK, I’m worried about this. I’m thinking about this, I’m thinking about this. Just that process in of itself is amazingly therapeutic and healing because you’re no longer got this churning going on. You’ve exhausted it. Get out of your system. And with journaling then you recognize all of these patterns and then say what do I choose to substitute these patterns where this churning thoughts and emotions. What I choose to kind of say, what we call the love messages, what loving messages do I choose to give back to my unconscious, to oppose or heal these kinds of patterns that are going on? I think that’s something that we can all do in the general public and what we’re doing in brain retraining with a seven step process that we have.That’s more when the patterns are extreme. When we’ve got such an extreme, almost traumatic pattern that actually self-talk isn’t going to shift it, we actually need something really powerful to train the brain. Not just rethinking but training the brain out to these responses, and that is that deep work, that deep repetition of these neuroplasticity techniques.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s very good, excellent. Now when I work with patients, you know, I look at physical health, right, which could be structure of the body, injuries under exercise over exercise, the chemical help which is important, that plays a big role, diet, nutrition, sleep, hydration.Um, gut health. Of course. If your nutritional health is poor, your physical health is poor and you’re inflamed, you’re sore, your diet is junky, you’re not sleeping, that obviously spills into your emotional health. I mean, try dealing with your taxes after you haven’t slept for a night. Emotionally, you’re going to be a wreck. How much do you plug in the nutritional component or the chemical stressors, how much do you try to plug that in to also help the emotional health?

Ashok Gupta: Yeah, definitely. We’re a holistic approach, absolutely. So we kind of focus on the brain retraining but we say that as you say, if you have all of these things not working in your life then it’s not going to make the difference. So we have something called the anti-inflammatory diet, but we call it the 80% diet because some people go on this very strict diet and get even more stressed by having to stick to this very strict regime. And so we have the anti-inflammatory diet then we have natural anti inflammatories. So turmeric, ginger, all those,  Umm and so plenty of supplements. And then the things that generally are missing in diets where people have over stressed and so. So that’s things like vitamin D, that’s magnesium, that’s all of those types of natural supplements, the omegas, all of these things we know are generally good for our health. And then so this anti-inflammatory diet and supplements and there’s also the sleep hygiene. So getting the sleep hygiene right and when we’re overstimulated and over stressed then our sleep is one of the first things that gets compromised and regular meditation, regular breathing has been shown to improve our sleep rhythms. So that’s part of it. And then also, what we do in those last two or three.Hours before you go to sleep is incredibly important. And so we look at, you know, the things that people can do that have been shown to deep sleep and lengthen sleep as well, and then also the importance of getting out into nature. Nature is incredibly healing, and so walking in nature. And the importance actually of UV rays and the importance of being sunlight, especially during, you know, the summer months, it’s fine, but in the winter months, how difficult it is and how people feel worse during the winter months simply because two things, number one, you know, getting exposure to daylight at the right times. And then secondly, their physical body is not absorbing the UV rays and therefore not producing vitamin D but also all of the other aspects of sunlight that are incredibly important for our bodies. And so we look at how people can can, you know.Be the best during the summer, at the winter months as well. So those kinds of things are definitely incorporated. But ultimately what we find is when people have come to us, they’ve already been down these avenues. So they’ve been to a nutritionist, they’ve been to dietitians, they generally have been on top of their diet.They’re trying to sleep as well as they can, right? Peace. Their brain is overstimulated no matter what they do. How can they focus on that and retrain that and and sometimes we find people retrain their brains and then they’ve spent thousands on supplements. And they can just stop all the supplements and it makes no difference, right, because the supplements are there, important when our system is overstimulated, but once it’s reset itself and we’re calm.That actually, our bodies don’t need so much of this supplementation. It’s just very natural.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That makes sense. Well, anything else I Ashok you want to share with the listeners that you think would be powerful or something else they could be working on incorporating?

Ashok Gupta: Uh, yes. I think one of the most important pieces of advice that gives people is there can be very well meaning support groups and doctors and whatever who have kind of put it kind of negative approach, which is hey, there’s no cure for this, there’s nothing that they can help these conditions and you know you’re on your own and and don’t believe it that people get better. So, sometimes we have people getting better through brain retraining and they’ll go back on these forums. And people will say, oh, well, you didn’t have the condition in the first place. That’s the only way you guys got that. And the hope that I want to give to people is that whether it’s through our program or through other modalities, people do heal from these chronic conditions such as chronic fatigue syndrome, fibromyalgia, mold illness and long COVID. People do heal. People do get better. So never give up on the ability of your body to heal and the great news is I believe there is nothing actually fundamentally wrong with the body in that there’s not organic damage in the longer term. That’s what we’ve certainly noticed. It’s a functional issue whether the body and the brain itself is over stimulating its own systems, creating a vicious cycle, which is keeping the body in this altered state. But if you fix that, the body can actually go back to health. And that’s the hope that I want to give to people. Don’t think that my body is weak. It can never get better. Once you get the right key to the right and the right lock, you can unlock your health. Unlock the healing potential of your body.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s great. I love that now. I mean it’s really interesting because you know, you see conventional psychiatry with a lot of people that have trauma, you know, for the most part they’re going to recommend some kind of an SSRI or antipsychotic or benzodiazepine, which is really just dampening or numbing.The body’s response to that, and a lot of times that brain response is there for a reason, and just numbing it out tends to over time, that problem tends to get worse because you’re just ignoring the reason why it’s there. How do you work with patients that are already on conventional medicines? That are just kind of dampening and covering up the issue versus getting to the root. How do you make that transition?

Ashok Gupta: It’s a huge scandal. First of all, you know, we have many people come to us, we’ve been on benzos and have benzo withdrawal, SSRI’s and it’s a huge scandal because these things even when they’re usually prescribed are supposed to be for a few weeks at a time. They’re not supposed to really. Yeah, long term dependency. And then when that dependency is there, when people try to come off these medications, they feel even worse than they did when they first started. So it’s kind of licensed drug dealing to an extent. Now of course if anyone’s listening, I don’t want anyone to stop the medications. Of course you do that in the auspices of your doctor or psychiatrist. But actually what we do is say keep your medication as safe at the moment, work with brain retraining, get your system calm and stronger. And only then very slowly come off the drugs in association with your doctor. That’s incredibly important because some people get super excited and then suddenly have cold Turkey withdrawal and it can actually cause more problems. So they need to come off these drugs very, very slowly. And so we actually have in benzo forums, you know, many people using our program to come off benzos, so they’re slowly coming off benzos. What’s using our program to calm the nervous system and retrain any negative patterns that are coming from it. And once again, this dampening that you’ve described, when the brain is dampened down, it over responds and says, hey, I’m trying to alert you to danger, but you’re dampening down. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes, exactly.

Ashok Gupta: Responses from the immediate to keep warning you. So emotions are warnings that either an emotion hasn’t been resolved, or there’s an attitude that we’re taking to life which is non conducive, or a belief system which is non conducive. And the problem with modern psychiatry is that it’s following the same reductionist medical model of come to see me, you’ve got 10 minutes with me, let me figure out what’s going on, and let me prescribe you drugs. But that model is not even fit for purpose for modern medicine and medical conditions, never mind psychiatric and emotional conditions. You know, it’s even worse for that. And so actually, you know, recognizing that there’s nothing wrong here, when we experience those types of extreme emotions, it actually just requires a lot more talking therapies and neuroplasticity approaches to help us understand the deeper messages of these conditions.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That makes a lot of sense. Now, what if we kind of take the, you know, connection with modern day psychology where it’s kind of cognitive behavioral techniques and talk therapy. Why is that not enough sometimes? People can be in therapy for years and years and years and it’s like they haven’t even gotten over it. Obviously it’s good to have communication and it’s good to have dialogue, it’s good to talk about the issues, but why is that not enough all the way?

Ashok Gupta: Now CBT is very effective at certain things such as mild to moderate depression. It’s shown to be effective, certainly anxiety. It can be useful, but the issue is the difference between CBT and brain retraining or neuroplasticity approaches. First of all, when people are going through CBT, they are rewiring their brains as well. So let’s be very clear. You know, any therapy that we’re taking ultimately is rewiring range change or shift that we’re making. But we often find that some, you know, CBT is like taking a fire extinguisher to a house fire, right? It can certainly help, but in certain instances if the house fire is very very powerful and huge. It actually requires, you know, the fire truck to turn up and actually deal with the blaze.Yeah. And so.The difference between CBT and some of these neuroplasticity brain retraining approaches is the intensity and the repetition of it. So, you know, imagine learning to drive a car, right? So learning to drive a car. Imagine on the first lesson, your first day CBT like thinking, OK, I’m now aware of my negative patterns about learning to drive, and I’m gonna be aware of them and shift some more positive belief systems. et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Let me see what’s blocking me. But that isn’t going to train your brain to learn how to drive. But neuroplasticity is saying, right? Let me practice pressing the gas using the gear stickers, you guys call it, you know, moving the steering wheel. And we’re training that into our nervous system through repetition again and again and again and again until it becomes automatic and our brain gets it right. I now know how to drive a car. Yeah. So that’s how it’s different to CBT. CBT could certainly do that, but it would take a lot longer. But this is about actually training the brain repeatedly, intensively to get the message.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s very good. And what kind of movement do you incorporate with your program? Is it just something simple like, hey, just get out and walk it, get out in nature, breathe, get some sun or  do you recommend any other specific types of movements like resistance or interval training, how does the exercise component work?

Ashok Gupta: For many of our patients, they have to pace themselves very carefully because they’ve got intense amounts of fatigue. And so initially we’re asking them, some of them are bed bound, so we say initially, gentle stretching is enough, so that might be some Tai Chi and yoga. So as long as you’re moving and stretching the body, people can manage more than walking in nature. So that can be you know there’s two types shown to be effective. So forests and fields and countryside, Yep, or near the ocean they can be very therapeutic. So walking in nature and then as people can get more energy then it might be some gentle, very gentle cardio because what we’re aiming to do is use up the stress hormones that have been triggered, the cortisol and adrenaline or adrenalin. So and certainly resistance training is fine as well but it’s that gentle cardio, mild to moderate cardio which is using up the stress hormones and calming the whole system down. Which we find most effective. And then if people are back to full health, then certainly things like interval training, cardio, resistance training, all the good stuff that we know that people can do. That’s all great stuff to keep the nervous system calm and we know that with the brain as well physical exercise is brilliant at increasing resilience so mental and emotional resilience increases when we have physical resilience which is why all of these things are completely linked together. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, you really made a good point about the stress hormones because people don’t realize but that stress hormone response is really about mobilizing glucose and energy reserves so you can fight and flee. The problem is, most people aren’t fighting and fleeing from something where they need that additional fuel for their muscles. So you have all this adrenaline and cortisol that’s mobilized all this glucose, but then you’re not using it and that glucose tends to start getting stored back away as fat a lot of times. That’s why the more stressed you get, the more you could start storing fat because it’s like you’re it’s like you’re eating a bunch of carbohydrate and sugar and you’re not using the fuel and so getting a little bit of walking or movement in there starts to take all that stress hormone and glucose and start to burn it up a little bit so you not storing it as fat. So that makes a lot of sense to me.

Ashok Gupta: Absolutely, and not only that. There’s the feedback loop between the body and the amygdala. The periodontal group, which is the brain, says I’m in danger, triggers these responses, but also gets feedback from the body as to whether we’re in danger. This is the kind of kinesthetic response. And so if the brain detects the muscles are tense, right? We’re physically feeling the effects of that anxiety, it interprets that as a reinforcement that we’re in danger and therefore creates more danger response, which is why when you physically feel anxious you get anxious about feeling anxious, you get stressed about feeling anxious and that’s that secondary loop that occurs. And in fact for us chronic anxiety is that is partly as a result of the anxiety about the anxiety we don’t like. We don’t like the sensations, the physical sensations and the emotional sensations of anxiety itself and therefore physical movement. Physical activity really stops the feedback loop and is able to calm the whole nervous system down and trigger also the parasympathetic nervous system. So we know that in physical exercise we’re triggering the sympathetic system to tighten up the muscles and get the muscles moving and then afterwards the system ratchets down and enjoys a period of parasympathetic response. And you know, people think I was, do I have to go to the gym and have to do a hard workout, brisk walking in nature, which I think most of us, if not all of us can do, has been shown to be highly therapeutic. So 30 to 40 minutes of brisk walking in your local park, in the forest is supposed to be the best, you know, near the ocean or in the ocean. That can be incredibly beneficial for your overall health. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it? Excellent, Ashok. I really appreciate you being on today’s show. We’ll put a link down below justinhealth.com/gupta. G-U-P-T- A. We’ll put it down below so you guys can access the 28 day course. By the way, what’s the time commitment to start the course? Is it 20 minutes an hour a day? What’s the initial commitment?

Ashok Gupta: So some of these videos are five or 10 minutes, so we don’t want to, right? So it’s like taking off 10 to 20 minutes a day watching your video. We give you a couple of free meditations that you can watch as well and that initial set of content is really for you to empathize in terms of does this really resonate with me? Is this my experience? And if so, then you can obviously go to the full program and then start the retraining process. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very good. A shock. Anything else you want to leave the listeners with?

Ashok Gupta: Uh, yeah. As I said, just believe in your, in the ability of your body to heal. It will heal, it can heal and we have that healing ability within us and also to recognize that whatever you’re experiencing, whatever physical assessments you’ve had in terms of someone saying you’ve got high viral titers or you know this particular enzyme is out of whack, those physical things are downstream. Yeah. And you will have those physical abnormalities in your body. But let’s go upstream, let’s go to the source. And we believe that a source of a lot of our conditions is actually in the brain. Even our gut health, I believe, is ultimately decided by our brain and the interaction between our gut and our brain. Fix this up here and all the downstream things will naturally take care of themselves. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I love it. Very good. Yeah. When someone says your issues are incurable, that just means the cure is within. So I really appreciate that Ashok. I appreciate it. Thank you so much. 


References:

https://justinhealth.com/

https://justinhealth.com/gupta

Functional Neurology Can Help Improve Your Brain – Dr. Jared Seigler | Podcast #215

Abilities can be strengthened based on recent patterns of activities. Just like riding a bike, one can help the brain remember an ability through practice until one actually masters it. This persistent strengthening is a fancy word called Long-Term-Potentiation (LTP). This is Functional Neurology!

In today’s podcast, Dr. Justin Marchegiani and his awesome guest, Dr. Jared Seigler goes in-depth on functional neurology. Watch as they tackle how it can improve the brain, diagnose and cure the underlying root cause of brain issues. Also, learn about the different assessments used by functional neurologists to examine the brain. Stay tuned for more and don’t forget to share. Sharing is caring!

Dr. Jared Seigler

In this episode, we cover:

02:05    Parietal Lobe and Cerebellum

03:46    Parasites can Cause Issues in the Brain

05:53    Functional Neurology Assessment

08:01    Flamingo Test

20:20    Root Cause of Brain Degradation

23:56    Glycemia and Blood Sugar Imbalance

31:20    Antisaccades Task

Youtube-icon

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey there, it’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani, welcome back to the podcast. We have a phenomenal guest, Dr. Jared Seigler in the house. Dr. Jared is an amazing functional medicine doc and functional, uh, chiropractic neurologist specialist. He’s a phenomenal clinician, really dives in to a lot of uh difficult cases. And we’re gonna have a ___[00:22] conversation today on the functional medicine side, we’re gonna dive in on the functional neurology side, and hopefully give everyone some good pearl they can walk home with. Dr. Jared, welcome to today’s podcast.

Dr. Jared Seigler: Thanks for having me, Dr. Justin, it’s definitely an honor, man. Uh, I love your energy, I love what you’re doin’, and- I’m glad we can do this just to self-spread the word, you know?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I appreciate it brother. And you post a lot of great stuff on your Facebook page, and a lot of clinical functional medicine stuff. It’s just- it’s really great, it’s really good brain candy, I love it. And uhm- a lot of good clinical things which as a doctor, I’m able to learn from some of the stuff that you post, and I think, maybe, some patients could as well. Uhm, what are some of the big more recent type of case studies or success stories that you’re seeing in your office on the functional medicine side, recently?

Dr. Jared Seigler: Oh, man. Uh- let’s see if there was- and that’s where there’s such a big spectrum, you know, like uh- my dopamine definitely surges when I get a letter, an email from an alright patient, saying, you know, that today she says I don’t need to have the surgery anymore. Uh, like my foot can’t evert, I don’t need to have my ankle broken, stuff like that, uhm- so that’s always really fun but, actually it really gets me just like when I, maybe get uh- more of the functional neurology type of things, when my mom was telling me like, Timmy got invited to the birthday, or just- uhm- actually last week, there is a girl- uhm- I would say she’s 10, and she would have this uhm- kind of thing where whenever she would get nervous, she would pretend to be a cat. And she would-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Huh.

Dr. Jared Seigler: -do this in school, and, yeah, so of cour-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting.

Dr. Jared Seigler: -yes, of course all the kids are teasing her ’cause she’ll like-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -Yeah.

Dr. Jared Seigler: -hide and hiss at them and everything. And uhm- but then like, from a neurology perspective, you know, I’m talking to the mom and she’s like, “Yeah, she would bump in the stuff on her left side”, and I’m like, “That’s what’s called the parietal lobe”. Like, “Where is my arm?”, you know, “Can I feel this?”, and- and uhm- I was like, the left arm, is obviously right side responsible for that, and I was like, “That’s…” uh, “…self-perception too”. Like maybe when we think of example people with anorexia, we usually find a lot of- like parietal lobe, because their self-perception is altered. And so, we started doing therapy on this girl’s left arm and left leg, like vibration and the trampolines and things like that. And now she doesn’t pretend to be a cat in front of peers whenever she’s nervous.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting. So, was that some kind of fight or flight mechanism that was just shutting down that left parietal lobe? What was happening there?

Dr. Jared Seigler: Uh, well, there was some uh- she had some parasites, she also have-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-huh.

Dr. Jared Seigler: -some candida, and there was retained primitive reflexes too. So, there was a couple things going on that should have gone away, you know, as the brain develops, we get rid of like, you know, that rooting reflex-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jared Seigler: -or that stuff ___[03:11] reflex, uhm, and those were still there. So we have the kind of integrate some of those, uhm- but for her, big part, the cerebellum, I say, you know when we think of maybe the cerebellum, everyone’s like, “Oh, balance”.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Jared Seigler: Balance is only 20% of what cerebellum does.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow.

Dr. Jared Seigler: The other 80% is balancing mood, it actually balances the immune system-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Jared Seigler: I’ve seen people have like a right cerebellar, like brain injury, then they start developing autoimmunity like, whoa! ‘Cause the right cerebellum is usually like to breaks, they’re like, “Hey, let’s maybe not attack this”, and, you know-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Jared Seigler: -things like that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes, that totally makes sense. So I wanna just be clear because you- you kinda- the reason why I like you so much is you really connecting lot of the functional medicine to the neurology. Will you see a lot of like, functional neurologists, they’re just lke, do this, been this, look at this, but they don’t- sometimes connect the gut or the inflammation or the hormones or the diet, and it seems like you have a good blend. I’m just curious though, you mentioned parasites. Does parasitic issues always cause parietal issues, or can it cause another issue in other parts of the brain?

Dr. Jared Seigler: Uhm, it can cause issues in other parts of the brain, but- so- kind of- if we get a little scientific, parasites use a thing called TH9 or Interleukin 9, and they start-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Jared Seigler: -manipulating that branch of the immune system. The tool of that part of the immune system is histamine.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mmm…

Dr. Jared Seigler: Like I was told when I’m training docs, even talking to patients. Let’s say, histamine, glutamate or like VFF’s inside the-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -Huh.

Dr. Jared Seigler: -brain. So now we’re foggy, and we’re anxious. And the problem with too much glutamate, if the pedals always to the middle, eventually that engine’s gonna start burning out-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -Right. Right.

Dr. Jared Seigler: [Laughs]. Yeah, so, we had the-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …depressing up the immune system, in- in a way is what you’re saying?

Dr. Jared Seigler: Yeah. Uhm, so, the way I kind of think of functional medicine, I say think of that like taking a protein shake, a functional neurology is actually exercising. So, metabolically, we have fed the muscle, but we also have to actually put in to work, you know. So, we can’t just- I can’t drink protein shakes and just magickly like, balloon up to 200 lbs. with a six pack. I gotta go in gym.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That totally makes sense. So, let’s just say for a parasitic infections, could that potentially cause a cerebellar issue or frontal cortex issue, or is it typically go just to the- to the parietal part?

Dr. Jared Seigler: Uhm it can kind of be anywhere, it’s what’s called the triangulation theory. So, say maybe-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay.

Dr. Jared Seigler: -someone’s genetically susceptible to like one part of their brain, like, “Oh, I’m on ___[05:36]”.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jared Seigler: Well, now we have like, maybe with the parasite like a global deficit. So, maybe that right parietal lobe was already a little low, and now, everything’s are up slower, and in relation, the right parietal lobe might drop even lower than everything else, so that’s kind of where we might notice it first.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool. So, When we’re doing a functional neurological workup, which I’d love you to just, you know, we could- we’re- and then started up people listening, this is also on video too, so you make sure you click on the link below, and go to the YouTube channel and watch this live assessment, I’m in at Dr. Jared, assess me, so I’d like you to just- to kinda walk me, or just, you know, walk me to a typical assessment that you would have your patients do, and also just for listeners, Dr. Jared’s one of the only functional neuro, uh practitioners that does a lot of these assessments, uh, over internet and virtual which is really awesome. Say you don’t have to travel a large distance, spend lots of money travelling. So, he be a great person to reach out to. So, when you’re doing these assessments, what are the key areas you’re looking at? Is it just the cortex, the cerebellum, and then the vestibular, or is it- do you break it down further?

Dr. Jared Seigler: We break it down a lot further, we usually actually have people fill out a hundred questionnaire…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -Wow.

Dr. Jared Seigler: …uhm, it’s only a hundred questions, so not that bad. But then that gives me a sense of like, okay, I’ll relooking’ at pre-frontal cortex, you know, does the kid hit people, do they have attention issues, can they not make decisions, or they poorly planning, uhm, or maybe, is it like cerebellar, like, oh they walk funny or they can’t dial in, s- or- the vestibular system  for example is typically if they’re like, uh, PTST anxiety like I can’t go in a crowded place, I get super nervous like, alright, let’s maybe think of it as a vestibular amnesia and instead of like, “Oh, here’s your Xanax” or something like that. Uhm, so you’re kind of catching me on the fly where usually I have an idea like, “Alright, this is where it’s gonna be”, but I usually start to- uh, think of the brain stem, and the cerebellum first, ’cause those usually the repair shot-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it.

Dr. Jared Seigler: -for the rest of the brain.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, right back in here deeper, right?

Dr. Jared Seigler: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: The big spot we’re lookin’ at- and so- up- I- when we look at the brainstem, we’re just looking at it globally, there’s not a right or left of that, correct section?

Dr. Jared Seigler: Uh, it can be like right now, like, when I look at your face, some looking for our- maybe do you have one eye higher than the other-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Jared Seigler: -do you like to turn out of the side, you know, is maybe someone’s spaced like a functional deaf, is it like, they only talk out a one side of their mouth, it’s usually not like someone comes in with the stroke, and they’d just like this. Like that’s-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jared Seigler: -pretty obvious.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jared Seigler: And we’re looking for like, “Hey this person, they don’t really smile out of the right side”, you know, and it’s the lower half of the face. Let’s start thinking, maybe cranial nerve 5 or something like that, versus, you know, is it the whole face, so we’re thinking of the motor stroop, and- but anyway, it’s usually one of the easiest things to assess this balance. So let’s say most people think they’re good at balancing, that the true way to determine it, I call the flamingo test. Oh, like- like I’m standing on my left leg, and when I think I have my balance, then I close my eyes.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Powerful man-

Dr. Jared Seigler: A little harder-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh yeah.

Dr. Jared Seigler: [Laughs].

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Because you- you lose the- the visual input, for balance, so you-

Dr. Jared Seigler: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -you’re going totally off of the proprioceptors in the ankles essentialy, right?

Dr. Jared Seigler: Yeah. So now, it’s your cerebellum versus- vision is about 80% of balance. So the brain-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 80%.

Dr. Jared Seigler: -so the brain’s good at- yeah- the brain’s good at giving a lot of illusions, you know, it can cover for itself, like, “Oh…”-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Jared Seigler: -“…it’s only a problem if you tease it out”. So well as wanna look for a comparison, now we can try the right leg.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: [Pauses]. I’m doing okay, I’m a little shaky, there, there, a little- ugh- there, lost it.

Dr. Jared Seigler: Well, which- uh- it looks like the right’s a little harder for you than the left.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It may be, it may be. Sure.

Dr. Jared Seigler: So- so there’s maybe a couple ways, so now we think, okay, maybe right cerebellum is the lesion, or the area we’re lookin’ at. And then-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: When you say lesion, just to be clear, like lesion just made this- that area that’s maybe not up to snap all the way, essentially.

Dr. Jared Seigler: Yeah, it’s not like you have a like meningioma or-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -Right.

Dr. Jared Seigler: -tumor, anything like that, yeah. Ah, we definitely don’t wanna just like, oh, let’s spin and look, and- ignore like-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -Yes.

Dr. Jared Seigler: -a very bad process going on.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Jared Seigler: Uhm, now we’re thinking, okay, what are the crossroads that feed into that, you know? Is it more of the spinal cerebellum? So then we might wanna try some poor activation like some dead bugs, sometimes we can do some eye movements, so I’ll just have people like follow their thumb, you know, I say like, “Pretend I’m a cop and now we think you might have been drinking”. So we’re looking for those smooth pursuits and things like that… so you have the tendency to try to keep it a little bit closer in on your left side. So, but that’s okay. Uh, [laughs]. So, that’s alright, so now, some things- so we can think of maybe eye movements, the vestibular system feeds into it, so does the puns. So, maybe some things simple we can do, and start gently rubbing the right side of your face. This is what’s called cranial nerve 5, it’s a lot of facial sensation-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jared Seigler: And only think of the brainstem, those are cranial nerves. Eye movements, kind of the step to keep us alive, like, “Hey, where can I put food in my mouth when chew that food-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Jared Seigler: That’s all crania nerve 5. Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -Number 5, got it.

Dr. Jared Seigler: Yep, so, ’cause when you’re a baby in your mama’s belly, the pons and the cerebellum are actually the same tissue, one goes forward, to become part of the brain stem, and one comes back to become the cerebellum. So we wanna try to think, where’s the crossroads, what’s some of the way to activate that right cerebellum through what’s called ___[11:08] neuronal cooling, what fires into that region. So now that we’d maybe been doing that for a little bit, now we play what I call the game. Let’s see if you can stand better on your right leg after doing not, or not. [Pauses].

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Definitely better.

Dr. Jared Seigler: Still not maybe a statue but see that’s… functional neurology-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jared Seigler: -and that’s the beauty of it to me, like dude, you just surged my dopamine. That’s why I love it ’cause the brain can change like that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s very cool.

Dr. Jared Seigler: Yeah, neuroplasticity happened real-time you know, maybe versus like, oh, we’d think of a CRP for a lupus patient, that can take a while for them to maybe quit eating this, and kill this and that, now we start to see them really going in the better direction, maybe over the course of a few weeks and things. But we know, okay, that’s your therapy. I used to be a strength coach or kind of a personal trainer that actually knows what they’re doing.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: [Laughs] Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Jared Seigler: So that’s where I’d say and then they’ll start building a list of extra sizes like, okay we’ve- we’ve found a way to fire into your right cerebellum, now maybe if that parietal lobe is an issue or the vestibular senses an issue like I feel like I’m spinning or I get nervous, or I don’t like loud stuff in my ears, like I see a lot of autistic kids, and they’re usually like, you know, they don’t like that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jared Seigler: So then we might think, okay, is there maybe head movements. We can do where specific eye movements. Uhm, we just make this thing like games, you know. So, now you have an exercise. Literally I just tell people, “Guess what we’re gonna do?”, like it’s a- it’s that simple.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s it, that’s very cool. So, let’s just make- I wanna make sure we take king of people through the general, like, you know, areas that we can look at. So, we have obviously the cortex in the front, right – right or left.

Dr. Jared Seigler: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And what were some of the big things that you would see come up at- on- on that questionnaire that you mentioned?

Dr. Jared Seigler: Uh-huh.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: If there were deficits in those areas?

Dr. Jared Seigler: Yeah, so usually, like uh- trouble with mood regulation-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Jared Seigler: -uhm- a lot of ADD type stuff, you know the old guy that just says run appropriate things?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -Yeah.

Dr. Jared Seigler: Prefrontal cortex is totally shut off, like he, so that’s more like uh- you know, I- I do have kind of a sympathy when maybe someone’s on the sten and tryin’ to know like I couldn’t not steal that purse, I think they’re absolutely right. ‘Cause that part of the brain may know to themselves like I shouldn’t do this, but the part of the brain that says “Don’t still the purse”, totally off. Uhm- and so, we start to think about maybe different parts of the prefrontal cortex, orbital frontal, these are maybe people that are more violent, they might have urinary issues too, so they’re like hit they’re head and now they have bile and bladder incontinence-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jared Seigler: -or we may have more of the Dorsolateral, they can’t plan, these are the patients, sort of family members they’re- they’re always late, they- they can’t prioritize things, they’re like, “Man, we- you- you can’t adult”, you know, type thing. Uhm-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -Interesting.

Dr. Jared Seigler: We have motor issues too or maybe people that are like, yeah, you start working out and my right side gets way tirer that are than my left. So then we start to think, well maybe it’s the cerebral cortex imbalance, too. And you know, in this left side is more math and this right side is more creativity. So, back to maybe on autistic kid, you have this huge hemisphere imbalance. They’re not dumb or anything like that, I don’t know another way to phrase it, they’re just not good at that social context, I can’t read non-verbal cues, I can’t get the joke, I can’t make eye contact, but then you give ’em math or some science, they’re better than like 99% of the rest of people out there. Uhm, you look for a lot of eye movements too, so like, for example the right cortex pushes the eyes to the left –

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -Yeah.

Dr. Jared Seigler: -and the left cortex pushes the eyes to the right. So just have people “boom-boom-boom-boom-boom-boom-boom-boom”. And then you can start to see, one seidel start to slow down… So, and then you can literally- and I’ll ask people, “Hey which side was it starting to get harder to look at?”, see like whenever you are trying to go from the left thumb over to the right thumb, you have a tendency to raise your left eyebrow, so we’re starting to think you’re doing what’s called spreading your math. You’re trying to compensate for lack of one area, it calls in collateral neurons like, “Hey I can’s do this” so, these bodies over here need to help me. So, maybe I’ll start moving my head or moving my jaw, you’ll like see people like-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -Okay.

Dr. Jared Seigler: You’re gonna feel like- no, just your eyes. [Laughs].

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I was feeling it a little bit harder to look over here, so that would- that would correlate with that right cortex then, correct? Is it right?

Dr. Jared Seigler: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: To the left?

Dr. Jared Seigler: Yup, so then whenever we maybe wanna do a therapy on somebody, like uhm- then we might like keep that in there right- or in their left visual field. So that way we’re over here more, so if it’s like an Alzheimer’s patient for example, and they’re like, “Yeah, I have trouble remembering the face, but I can remember the name”. This is more of a face, we’ll have them look at faces over here, on that side so we start kind of triangulating through different things like, “Look at this picture”, maybe we’ll have purple in the background and just more of the light brain type of color than maybe a red or yellow. So, once you know kind of how to play the game, it really does kind of become very simple, very neat. Uhm, so, we’ll start with the cortex and there’s different regions there, then we have you know, back to like-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -Okay, we’re talking right here, this is the upper part of the brain, and of course, the frontal is like kind of what makes us, us, right? So that’s-

Dr. Jared Seigler: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -that’s the cortex, and then go ahead, what’s the next one?

Dr. Jared Seigler: Yup, and then we’ll usually start to look at the motor strips, you know, ‘can someone move, or they coordinate and things like that, and then we’ll look at sensory strips which now are getting end of the parietal lobe. The parietal lobe, uhm… is also like left-right discrimination, that’s more of the inferior part down through here-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -Yeah.

Dr. Jared Seigler: So, like, one girl, she was uhm at a business function and this guy was trying to impress people like, “Oh, I used to be a tumbl- or whatever in high school, I used to flip the girls in gymnastics and cheerleading”. So, of course she does that and she hits, boom, right here on the back of her left parietal interior lobe. She’s like, “I wake up and the whole bar is looking at me.”, that’s how loud the thump was. And she’s like, “I can’t tell my left from my right anymore”. So then they’re like, “Oh, there it is”, so- you know, maybe versus uhm, you know, can I do math in their head, can they- uhm- so then we’ll start think parietal lobe, then there’s like the vestibular system, there’s the temporal lobe. Uh, the temporal lobe does a lot of regulation of things too. Like for example whenever we look at violent offenders, and maybe people that have been through a lot of PTSD and things, they usually have a right temporal lobe deficit. They can’t regulate- uhm- motions anymore. We start to look at the vestibular system too, that one’s really big ’cause most people think of dizziness is the main complaint or the vestibular system. But that’s actually anxiety. Anxiety is the number one issue. Uhm- because of the- the vestibular system suppress this what’s called your limbic response. And that’s a lot of the negative emotions correlated with survival, “Am I afraid of something, am I angry about something”. So, when I see people with all these limbic responses I think, “Oh, man, we really got to look at their brain, they’re just set off like that. Uhm, [laughs] that’s a whole another conversation though. Uhm, yeah, we start to think about that, uhm- the brainstem to me is huge too, because like when we think about maybe something like the basal ganglia, that’s kind of like this- we have two like mohawks that run along each side of the brain, and there’s a couple different pathways of the basal ganglia, one of it is “Do this motion”, like shake someone’s hand, but don’t just shake- don’t just push your hand out there so hard, you know, punching them in the face. So then there’s- that’s what’s called the direct us- that do, do this. And then there’s the “Don’t do this”, the indirect, so that shades a little bit off what we say. So, that way I’m talking to you, I’m not screening at you.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mmm.

Dr. Jared Seigler: So, usually think of the basal ganglia with Parkinson’s, you know, ’cause this is like, “I don’t want my hand to shake tight thing”.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Jared Seigler: Yeah, so-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Jared Seigler: So, basal ganglia’s fed by a part of the brainstem called the mesencephalon. So, and that’s fed by a lot of eye movements, and this would be the people with the masked face, so back-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Jared Seigler: -to like, we’ll have them do ___[19:28].

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: [Crosstalk].

Dr. Jared Seigler: Yup, so we’ll actually have them maybe do like, uhm- like reflexively move their eyes, ’cause you ask them to look up, they can’t, they can’t look their eyes up, so they- they’ll have to look up, yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Jared Seigler: Then we’ll have them reflexively like make their eyes bounce up to what’s called OPK, their Optokinetics.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Jared Seigler: Kind of like- [crosstalk]-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …right? Like the-

Dr. Jared Seigler: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Little red white and strips and you pull ’em up and you have ’em follow their eyes and- as you go it through it, right?

Dr. Jared Seigler: Yup, yup. So, I just say, think of it like you’re driving by a picket fence, your body- your eyes automatically-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jared Seigler: -trying to find a new target, and you’re just like, “Ting…”-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Jared Seigler: -“…ding, ding, ding”. Yup, so, uhm- reflexes are always stronger than thinking about doing it. So if somebody can’t volitionally do something, we’ll just go a step deeper, and we’ll just hit it within it with reflex. Uhm, so-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, with a lot of this neurological issues like what do you see is the root cause? I mean, let’s just like take out like, alright, a car accident or a physical trauma, right? Uhm, I mean, it- it- is a lot of it more autoimmune, is a lot of it is a functional medicine, which I- autoimmune is the functional medicine gut, nutrition, inflammation, gluten, is it all of that? So, I’m just trying to look at- okay, if I do this eye things, how is that root cause outside of the- you know, its stimulation-

Dr. Jared Seigler: -Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -to the part of the brain which may help it grow and, you get bigger like you said muscles for, you know, exercise for your muscles, the protein is the metabolic, what’s the root cause and- and- can- can you break that down?

Dr. Jared Seigler: Yeah. Uhm all things being equal, so uh- one of my favorite mentors is Dr. ___[21:03], and he’s what’s part of what’s called the ___[21:05] project. Well there’s only like 4- I believe 4 uhm, kind of ways that they can actually measure the brain’s function real-time in the entire planet. And I asked them the same question, ‘”What’s usually degrading people’s brains?”. Without hesitation he said stress and negative relationships. He didn’t talk about food, I mean, don’t get me wrong, that’s looks bad, this glycemia, like-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jared Seigler: -we’re- if we’re gonna develop Alzheimer’s, we’re doing it right now.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Jared Seigler: ‘Cause it takes 60 years for the brain breakdown enough to where now I don’t know who I’m talking to, and then like, “I forgot to put pants on”, type thing.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, exactly.

Dr. Jared Seigler: Stress will always do it, and stress can come in many forms: toxins, like glyphosate, metals, which run rampant, and- blood sugar imbalances, people getting shaky, between meals, people getting tired between meals, huge, huge problem. And I’m glad you brought up autoimmunity, what Dr. ___[22:01] found, you know, big nerves, and you know, I just-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah?

Dr. Jared Seigler: 98% of people have auto or soft antibodies to bring tissue. It only really becomes a problem when that blood brain barrier is broken.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mmm…

Dr. Jared Seigler: So now, basically, walking around with neuro autoimmunity, we just don’t know it, like I see a ton of POTS people. Like it’s a ___[22:22], it’s everywhere now.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Jared Seigler: Uhm, and there is a reason for that. That’s an autoimmune disease. So, now the brain can’t regulate the heart rate when someone’s stands up, or they go shopping, and they just “Boom”-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jared Seigler: -pass out, hit their head. Uhm, so, from a root cause analysis we see a lot of things stemming from the gut, obviously infections, like Parkinson’s, we know now that those toxins will walk their way up the vagal nerve into the brain stem.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Jared Seigler: Smelling a lot of bad stuff too. Uh, blood sugar issues, chemicals and foods, uh, Wi-Fi, is actually extremely problematic like we see a lot of molds degrading the brain, like at an alarming rate actually. Uh, what they did, uh- with- a- all neurological antibodies to the brain, here was like, “Okay, here is the autoimmunity before. Let’s expose them, sky rocketed it it”. The amount of how the immune system started to attack the brain is just crazy high after that. Uhm-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, very interesting.

Dr. Jared Seigler: But, yeah- so that’s where when the we course, we do and to take that functional medicine approach. ‘Cause back to like, you know, you stroking the side of your face-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Jared Seigler: -to stand better, it feels like drinking alcohol every night to cope with the poor relationship. Who gives a crap about stroking a side of your face, you can stand better-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s right.

Dr. Jared Seigler: Yes. Seriously, big issues-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jared Seigler: -going on.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jared Seigler: Yeah, so- I’m from Oklahoma, we would call it “Farting in a tornado”, you ain’t gonna do a lot.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah [laughs] that totally makes sense, yeah, exactly. I- Boston we’re on from they call a “Pissing in the winds”. So, I- I- I totally [giggles]- I totally-

Dr. Jared Seigler: [Crosstalk]

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Which is what you were saying then.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: They’ll do what you’re saying then. Also, you said- mentioned a couple things about this glycemia and blood sugar imbalance which I think are really important. But there’s also a lot of stuff out there which I posted a lot of content on it too on intermittent fasting being so beneficial. So if you had this glycemia and you started be de-porpriating more intermittent fasting, could that exacerbate these per- these person’s symptoms more?

Dr. Jared Seigler: It can. Uhm- I’m after big thing called metabolic flexibility. I know everyone uh- and ketosis can totally be good. We utilize that dietary tool-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jared Seigler: -all the time. But if somebody can’t miss a meal, and we’re like, “Hey, you’re gonna go 16 hours without eating”, their cortisol’s gonna shoot up sky high, they’re gonna start degrading the brain even faster.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Jared Seigler: So, usually we’ll have to get them to the point the can miss a meal.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right. It’s kinda like, someone that can barely walk and you’re like, “Yeah I want you to go run a marathon right now”, that’s the equivalent of like an intermittent fasting episodes, essentially.

Dr. Jared Seigler: Basically, yeah. So, we’ll get them to the point like, “Hey I was able to- you know, ___[24:54] once a little that day doc, and I did it like snap, get back in the office, I think good”. Now we can-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -Get better.

Dr. Jared Seigler: -to utilize different tools, yeah. So we obviously, you know, you work with a lot of patients too. We have to do the right thing at the right time. ‘Cause, what we don’t wanna do is push someone so fast, we push them over.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right. So, you want your body to be more metabolically flexible, but it may take a few months, nutrients, some things, some- you know, redu- reduction of stress, cortisol, those kind of things to get you to that point where you could start to move in that direction essentially.

Dr. Jared Seigler: Yeah, absolutely.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And it’s interesting, ’cause you see a lot of people that aren’t practitioners and- and they kinda have this panacea approach, where this thing has to be it, and if you can’t do it, you’re doing it wrong. And I think as a clinician, we can look at it and just say, “Well, no, it’s just… you’re here, you’re telling me we gotta get to the heart. And if I can’t make that jump all at once, then, you know, there’s probably some baby steps we have to make in between to get you there, to test pad. Does that make sense?

Dr. Jared Seigler: Yeah, absolutely. And that’s where uhm- the internet can be a double-edged sword, because what worked for you probably won’t work for me.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Jared Seigler: Even though we’re both white boys, even though-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: [Laughs]

Dr. Jared Seigler: -we look different on the outside-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jared Seigler: – we’re more than a hundred times different on the inside, I can guarantee it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Jared Seigler: So, that’s where, you know, when something works for one person, they usually extrapolate that and think, “Okay, well, this worked for me, now it’ll work for everybody”.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Jared Seigler: And- uhm- you know, we’ve obviously seen that’s not the case. You know, ’cause 2 people may be trying to do the same thing, even though they’re maybe have the same label, like all old-timers. And one person gets better but the other person- they just start degrading faster and faster and faster.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes. I had a patient just before I got on the phone with you here, where d- we started this person on kind if like a ketogenic paleo template for the fisrt couple of months to care, he’s really well, really good improvements in- in acid reflux, I mean he hit some parasites and some other issues, we cleaned that up, but then there was a pointy kinda hit the wall, and the sleep wasn’t get enough much better, he’s- he’s about 50% better, and- and then we just started adding a little bit more carbs in at night time. And-

Dr. Jared Seigler: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -magically a sleep started to improve and he can sleep throughout the night. So, there’s some- like metabolic shifting that happens where what works maybe in the beginning of care may have to be tweaked as you continue to progress your care.

Dr. Jared Seigler: Yeah. I always do try to think about like when we think of a ketogenic paleo type thing, I don’t know about you, but if I happen to stumble across like a peach tree, I’m gonna eat a ton of peaches.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: [Laughs] yeah. Exactly.

Dr. Jared Seigler: That’s where- yeah, that’s where I think carbs cycling usually works better-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jared Seigler: -than maybe straight ketosis. The only way I’ve seen ketosis work in long term is if people are just dumping ketones down the hatch. They have-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes

Dr. Jared Seigler: -to supplement, they’re never gonna make it, especially women. Uhm- that’s where I think of that metabolic flexibility, our body was designed to use protein as energy, use carbs as energy, use fat as energy-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jared Seigler: -use nothing for energy if just suck at hunting and gathering, and we didn’t get anything that day-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right, right. Exactly-

Dr. Jared Seigler: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -that makes a lot of sense. You gave me some great-great knowledge bombs here. Just to give people uh- you know. general overview of what you do on the functional neuro side. Is there anything else you can do just to make quick at home assessment on me, that maybe someone can look at in themselves and then, maybe apply in exercises too. Is there anything else we can do here as a work through?

Dr. Jared Seigler: Yeah, uhm- one other thing, so with the premise of functional neurology, it’s basically do what you suck at.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jared Seigler: That’s kind of one of the general rule of thumbs. And maybe if like back to balancing, it might be hard to try to sit there and keep balancing and balancing, and balancing, but you’ve gotta try, ’cause if you don’t use it, you’ll lose it. So that’s where like-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So it’s essentially- I should be trying to do, like stance like this during the day with my eyes closed-

Dr. Jared Seigler: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -with one each side essentially.

Dr. Jared Seigler: Yeah, kind of. And since we’re thinking about the cerebellum, we’re thinking about the foot, like if you’re to get on like a rebounder or something-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jared Seigler: -then I’d say like, get a vibration sense, like maybe have your wife just start tapping it by your foot, “babababababa”.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jared Seigler: And that’s sending a ton of proprioceptive input-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jared Seigler: -to that regions. See how you kind of lost it?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Jared Seigler: So that’s where I would say it’s kind of like riding a bike, you gotta keep practicing, and practicing, and practicing, until you can-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jared Seigler: -do it, and go 30 years without riding a bike and still remember. That fancy word is called long-term potentiation.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jared Seigler: Meaning-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.

Dr. Jared Seigler: -that those connections of stuck around, and now we don’t have to maybe keep rubbing the side of our face. So, something that you could do for example, to be- after you stop rubbing the side of your face, that’s when I would say, now you wanna do your balance exercises ’cause we’ve activated that part of the brain, so now we wanna re-map it through that proprioceptive input. We can do that through vibrations like a hundred and twenty eight hertz tuning fork, I know you still got it from school-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh yeah. It’s hiding here.

Dr. Jared Seigler: -I’d take the best 8 dollars for functional neurology ever. Oh, my gosh, I’d tell- I’d even tell people like “Just go buy this, it’s on Amazon for like 8 bucks”. Like my chronic migraine, TMJ people would start [mimics tuning fork buzz] and, putting that on different places on their body and maybe put them through an active range of motion, they love it, they can’t get enough.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very good, yeah, I’m excited, I wanna do your functional neurology course even though this one’s meant more for patients. I know you said you will be coming out with the doctors one at some point. I’m giving you a little- little push there to do that ’cause I’m excited for that. But yes, sign me up for your patient course and I’m gonna- definitely get this out to my listeners and this is I think really invaluable information. Is there anything else we can apply right now to me that we can also- that listeners can look at? So- so you said like, okay, this stuff, like the one leg stuff, I get that, like-

Dr. Jared Seigler: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -stroking of the face, and you were able to assess that off of which leg, what I couldn’t

Dr. Jared Seigler: Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -balance out off of, and then also we did the eye thing, and it was like which one do you feel like is the harder-

Dr. Jared Seigler: Yup. So, for example if you have trouble looking off to the left, maybe you can start it midline and just go little bit, you know, like, you’re not gonna bench press 300 lbs. the first time you go in, you gotta work up to it. So, say, maybe we’ll go here, and then as you get better, we can go here, then as you get better, we can go here, and then keep going. And so you reach what’s called fatigability. You start to notice like man, I’m raising my eyebrow and trying to move my head instead of move my eyes, it’s like a set of bench press: stop, rest, wait for the next set, you gotta save it ’cause if you start doing it wrong, you just gotta call in those quilateral neurons that you were already trying to [crosstalk].

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …the jaw, your eyebrow, right, tho- some of these muscles here, right?

Dr. Jared Seigler: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: ___[31:19].

Dr. Jared Seigler: Yeah, and then, uhm- kind of the big thing for the people that have inhibition control, we call them Antisaccades. So that’s where someone holds their thumbs up, we’d say look at the thumb that doesn’t move. So, I’ll have people like, look at my nose, and then-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jared Seigler: -I’ll say look at the thumb that doesn’t move. And then ugh, see you looked at the one that moves.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh yeah, yeah.

Dr. Jared Seigler: So you have to say don’t look at that- that-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jared Seigler: -don’t- halfway is, don’t steal the purse, don’t hit the Timmy, don’t do this. So we’ll end- like- we’ll see this on a ton of ADD kids. Ad, I like- I can see them, they’re practically sweating trying to not look at the thumb that moved.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Jared Seigler: So, yeah. So, that’s where we’ll provide a stimulus like uhm- red light, green light is a good game and you’ll have them focus on the red light like teach that brain how to make them stop. And then to focus back on the ADHD, ’cause I know we only have a little bit of more time, we wanna have them count to 5. Say they look at the thumb that doesn’t move, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, ’cause you tell your brains stem, “Actually look at that, really focus. Don’t just look at it bounce around”. ‘Cause if you noticed me talk to people, their eyes are usually all over the place. They can’t even focus one stimulus for that long at all. How can we expect them to focus on math, or longer than that?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I understand. So, if I like don’t have your assessment yet, right? And I’m like, “Hey I want it even better more neurologically” like, what are those top 3 things, is it literally the ankle stuff, is it going back and forth with the eyes, is like- w-

Dr. Jared Seigler: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -what are those little things that can do it and how long? How long does a ___[32:50]  look? 10 seconds, 30 seconds, and then how much of it rest?

Dr. Jared Seigler: Yeah it can depend for that fatigability like if people can only maybe do like 5 or 6 Saccades, or look to a target then I say 5 or 6 it is, and I usually have people do that like 4 or 5 times a day. Like, “Hey, you know you’re going to the bathroom, that way you don’t look weird and frightened your co-workers like just “Boom-boom-boom-boom-boom-boom-boom”, you know. Uhm- so, eye movements are good but all things being equal, through exercise, like true exercise, having a goal for that exercise, like my Parkinson’s patients I just try to tell them that you’re gonna preserve your brain-brain better by [inhaling-exhaling] everyday, than just doing some eye movements looking at some OPK tape and maybe working on your balance uhm- gratitude is probably the biggest thing, we give people journals. So actually, having something you’re grateful for, ’cause if we wanna like maybe hit direct blood flow to the prefrontal cortex we have to get out of that stress response.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, the gratitude is like forward looking like, I’m thankful for all these things right now here-

Dr. Jared Seigler: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …brain stem, fight or flight your back here, essentially.

Dr. Jared Seigler: Yeah, yeah. Blood flow is huge. Uhm-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Shifting that blood flow by what part of the brain’s you’re activating essentially?

Dr. Jared Seigler: Mm-hmm. Yeah, ___[34:06], if- if you or someone you know is actively having strokes, please don’t try to start doing functional neurology-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Jared Seigler: -we will change blood flow to different regions of the brain, and the last thing we wanna do is blow another pipe out, yeah, absolutely.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay. That make sense.

Dr. Jared Seigler: And I would say gargling. We’re so sympathetic-drive, we have to get back in that rest and digest. So when we think of about blood flow and someone’s stressed out, basically below their diet rim shuts off. We’re not gonna digest food, the liver’s not gonna detoxify, ovaries and testes aren’t gonna make sex hormones, ’cause those things aren’t important for survival right now.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, gargling. Couldn’t we also do more nasal breathing? You know, focus on more nasal?

Dr. Jared Seigler: Yeah. Yeah that- breathing through the diaphragm? Mm-hmm. Uhm- and then when we think about a breath count, uhm- kind of the command center for the vagus nerve is called the nucleus tractus solitarius, I know, big words, uhm- but that’s where we’ll do a 4-8, 4 breath count. In for 4, through the nose out for 8 through the nose, count for 4 before you breathe in again. ‘Cause our autonomics, if I say “Control your pupil dilation and your blood pressure”, you can’t do that, but you can control your breath. So that’s kind of our window in to our autonomics.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So it’s 4 in, then pause for 4, then 8 out? Or is it 4 in then 8 out and pause 4?

Dr. Jared Seigler: Yup, 4 in, 8 out, pause 4.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wonderful, that’s great! Yeah, awesome. I’m gonna put the links for the course, for the listeners here below, uhm, and do you know when course live Dr. Jared?

Dr. Jared Seigler: We were trying to shoot for mid-March, I gotta shoot a couple more videos and then get it nice and pretty. I- I’m not the one that’s like, “Hey, let’s make it a pdf, and let’s make it uh- I’m more- I’m left brain dominant man, creativity is not my suite, so- that’s where we have the right people to do that, but yeah, we’re looking at definitely get it out sooner rather than later.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, please email me and let me know. I wanna be a part of that course as well, I think this information’s phenomenal. And then we’ll make sure, at this- if this video comes out too soon before the course, I will make sure the links are- are updated as things come live. So make sure you get those out to me, we’ll make sure our listeners get it. I think this is amazing information, your website is becomeproof.com, part of the living truth institute, that’s the easy URL. There are any other ways the listeners can get in touch with you?

Dr. Jared Seigler: Yeah, I’m on Facebook. Uh, just look at my name Jared Seigler, I think there’s two of us, I’m the one that looks like me so, that makes it simple [laughs].

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: [Laughs]. That’s an easy one, I love it. Anything else Dr. Jared?

Dr. Jared Seigler: Uh, just figure out a- gratitude, you know, it’s easier to be nice to somebody than mean. So, that’s just what I found in this life If we’re grateful for what we have, then that’s a big step ’cause if we don’t appreciate what we have, we’ll never be grateful for what we get.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s so much easier to say, “Hey, be grateful” versus, “Hey, activate that blood flow to that frontal cortex”, it just sounds so much nicer saying it that way.

Dr. Jared Seigler: It is. I try to keep things like my dad told me, “Keep it simple, stupid”. [Laughs]

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s it, that’s it man. Awesome Jared. Well, I appreciate your- your time and- and massive knowledge bombs you dropped here today. Thank you so much and you have an awesome day. We’ll talk soon!

Dr. Jared Seigler: Thanks for having me. Everyone have a great day!

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Thank you!


References:

https://thelivingproofinstitute.com/

https://justinhealth.com/


The entire contents of this website are based upon the opinions of Dr. Justin Marchegiani unless otherwise noted. Individual articles are based upon the opinions of the respective author, who retains copyright as marked. The information on this website is not intended to replace a one-on-one relationship with a qualified health care professional and is not intended as medical advice. It is intended as a sharing of knowledge and information from the research and experience of Dr. Justin and his community. Dr. Justin encourages you to make your own health care decisions based upon your research and in partnership with a qualified healthcare professional. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. Dr. Marchegiani’s products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. If you are pregnant, nursing, taking medication, or have a medical condition, consult your physician before using any products.