The other reasons why you may be tired – Podcast #91

Dr. Justin Marchegiani and Evan Brand are connecting the dots as to why some people who have normal adrenals come back still a little bit tired throughout the day. This podcast touches upon the mitochondria and the thyroid, which are the major driving factors of why someone may be fatigued and tired even though their adrenals look good.

stressListen to learn more about dealing with fatigue and inability to cope with stress. Get a better understanding of the thyroid hormones and how they affect the body. Discover facts about fluoride and the effects of drinking fluoridated water. Also find out the benefits of adding mitochondrial support in this interview.

In this episode, topics include:

04:24   Fatigue and inability to cope with stress

11:23   Adrenal, thyroid, and gut issues

14:41   Fluoride

25:32   Mitochondrial support

27:43   Summary









Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Hey there, it’s Dr. J. Evan, what’s going on this great Tuesday?

Evan Brand:  Hey, good morning, man! I’m drinking some vitamin C and I’m feeling quite—quite yummy.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Nice. Yeah, I got my butter and MCT coffee here, rocking it out, getting my ketones up so in a fat-burning mode today, feeling really good.

Evan Brand:  Great.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  How was your weekend?

Evan Brand:  It was great. My wife and I went to Cumberland Falls State Park. It’s the biggest waterfall in the south and I’m gonna be making like a little vlog on my YouTube channel of our adventure. We ended up coming home at like 4 a.m. on Sunday morning because the bed—we rented a little cabin—the mattress in this cabin was so freaking uncomfortable and because of her pregnant belly, she was unable to get in a comfortable position as it is, and it had the worse, like 19.000 springs in it. That–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Oh, my gosh.

Evan Brand:  It—it killed our back. So we tossed and turned until 4 o’clock, and then I said, “Babe, we need to just get up and go home because it’s a 3-hour drive, but we’ll still get more sleep there than trying to lay and toss and turn here.” So—but it was still fun. It did not hinder our ability to enjoy the—the rest of the time we had there.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  That’s good. So you survived it. Very nice.

Evan Brand:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So I’m getting back in the gym again, just more frequently and lifting heavy again, doing a lot more—a lot more compound lifts like front squats and you know, deep dead lifts. So I’m feeling really just a good total body soreness. It’s a really good healthy soreness. So I like that feeling. I’m looking forward to bring in that back more frequently, kinda combining that in with some of the high intensity interval training and then some of the—the heavy lifting as well.

Evan Brand:  That is a great feeling, yeah. I’m gonna be back into the gym today. I took probably a week or so off just to—I pushed it a little too hard and that belly button pain where I thought I had a hernia–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Evan Brand:  But it ended up being an abdominal wall tear. I felt something—something give. So I was like, “Oh, I’m gonna take a week off and up the collagen.” So now I’m—revisit it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And I think, too, once you get your infections fully eradicated, what’s gonna happen is you’re not gonna have that viscerosomatic reflex—viscero meaning organ, somato meaning muscle. So when you have inflammation in the surroundings organs, they’re on the same 2-lane sensory nerve highway as the muscles around there. So I think what’s happened is the inflammation in those organs are refluxing to the sensory nerves that go to the surrounding muscles probably at L1 through maybe S2, regarding the spinal nerves, and they’re probably shutting off some of those muscles for support.

Evan Brand:  Ah, okay. So I should be increasing my ability to lift and not feel pain.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Absolutely. Yup, that’s one of–

Evan Brand:  Good.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  The big ones. We can do a whole podcast on that piece alone.

Evan Brand:  Yeah, that’ll be fun.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I see a big connection between these organs and inflammation in the organs and the muscles being affected, and we all know this intuitively, right? Anyone that knows about like heart attack symptoms, you know, it’s that left arm pain, left jaw pain kinda thing, right? We see it with appendicitis in that lower right hip quadrant, we see it with gallbladders in the shoulder, we see it with every woman who has had PMS for the most part, they can empathize with some lower back pain right in and around menstruation.

Evan Brand:  Definitely.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So it makes sense, right?

Evan Brand:  Yeah, it does.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Well, we talked before the show and we’re really trying to connect the dots for our patients listening and people that are having health issues, so it’s a practical show, and one of the things that we talked about the last few weeks, we’re seeing people that have normal adrenals but are coming back still a little bit tired throughout the day, and why is that? So we’re gonna help connect the dots with that and we’ve done some other shows on this where we talked about the mitochondria and the thyroid which are some of the—the major driving factors of why someone may be fatigued and tried even though their adrenals look good. So refer back to those shows for anyone that’s listening for more in-depth info, but we’re gonna kinda connect the dots here, just so it—we’re putting everything in once place, because this is a common symptom that we’ve been seeing recently.

Evan Brand:  Yup, definitely. Yeah, so we’ll start the story I suppose with a patient story of mine, maybe you have one as well, and fatigue and inability to cope with stress were some of the main symptoms that we were working on. So we started out with just the adrenal test. Now in a perfect world, you and I would have all of the testing done at the same time so we can get the full complete picture, but sometimes it just works out to where someone needs to proceed with just one test and we have to prioritize that. That’s what we did here is we ran the adrenal test and it showed up pretty normal. I would not consider it adrenal fatigue, maybe some dysfunction because his afternoon level was really low, but otherwise, he was in range throughout the rest of the day and his DHEA level was really good, and so it’s like, “Huh, well.” I know what’s going in terms of the adrenal picture? Why are you only low out of rhythm one part of the day? But your DHEA looks good but you can’t handle stress and you’re exhausted. So I don’t have the results yet, but what I was sort of playing out in my mind is there’s gotta be something going on with the gut because I asked him, kinda went through some of the symptoms that I—I see, and you and I have talked about for GI stuff. I said, “Huh, maybe there’s some type of infection going on that’s, you know, stealing your amino acids and impairing digestion.”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yup.

Evan Brand:  Because he did talk about some heartburn. So I thought, “Oh, okay, good. We have at least one—one clue here.” And he’s got the vertical ridging on the nails like I’ve had.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yup.

Evan Brand:  And so we’re running the stool test now. I don’t have the results but let’s just hash it out and say, “Maybe there is an infection or a parasite going on and that’s stealing his amino acids, and he’s unable to make energy from his food.”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  It’s very possible. People forget like when we see low amino acids on someone’s organic acid test. And you know, some of those organic acid markers for low amino acids could be—off the top of my head—could be a lactate. That’s a marker that goes low. We see low amino acids. It could be cis-aconitase, that’s another one, or it could be pyroglutamate. These are sulfur amino acid markers. So when we see these low markers, we automatically go back to malabsorption, right? It’s the gut stuff. We automatically go back to stress, because the more we are stressed, our body prioritizes lean tissue.  It—it says, alright, so here’s the mindset of the body, of the epigenome, it’s saying, “Alright, we wanna get rid of the most metabolically active tissue because it takes the most amount of nutrients and rest and hormonal output to—to keep it there.” So we wanna get rid of the most metabolically active tissue in times of stress. It’s kinda like you’re going—you’re going for a hike, you know, at Mt. Washington, right? And your pack’s really heavy. Well, what do you do? You go into your pack and you pull out all the stuff that may not be a necessity. Well, that’s kinda what your body does when it comes to stress and muscle and tissue like that tends to be one of these things that becomes less of a priority, the more stress you get. And also people just say, well, if I have low amino acids, why can’t I just eat more protein? That’s a really good idea. That’s one of the things we work on, as we’re making sure we have a palm to a first to a full hand of protein at each meal. That’s important, maybe even adding a protein shake in, but a lot of times it’s not enough because of the fact that 50% of the energy of the protein that we take in actually goes to breaking down the protein. Protein is very energy depleting regarding just the digestive processes and a lot of people already have broken digestion, so we’re working on the 5Rs and supporting the digestion with hydrochloric acid and enzymes by adding in free-form amino acids, adding in the collagen like you were talking about is a great way to help fill in those gaps.

Evan Brand:  Yeah. Yeah, that’s common that a lot of people, I mean even if they came from like vegetarian or vegan diet, they have trouble adding this stuff back in. Their body is like, “Whoa! We have no resources available to actually start breaking down these meat.” So that’s kind of a slow moving process, too, that I’ve been dealing with over the past week as just trying to work some amino acids in to people that have not eaten meat for a while, and it takes a lot of energy. I mean, that is like throwing the big log on the fire and it’s definitely a little bit troublesome for some people if they’ve done it for 5 or 10 or 15 years, which is just crazy.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, and I personally believe this is the major reason why a lot of people go vegan and vegetarian because their guts really aren’t working and it’s just easier for them to process more vegetable-based things and they do the shake in the morning, very low amount of protein, maybe they add a tiny bit of MCT in there if they’re lucky, but most of them they aren’t doing it, and they’re avoiding it because their gut isn’t working to begin with. That tends to be the reason why.

Evan Brand:  You know what would be amazing if we could do and get him on board with allowing him—allowing us to run some testing on him would be Rich Roll. He’s got a top ranked podcast as well and he’s got a book about being a vegan and he promotes a vegan lifestyle. He’s got a huge, huge following with this ideology but he’s a skinny guy. So I guarantee if you and I reached out, and we said, “Hey, Rich! Let us run some GI testing on you, I wouldn’t be surprised at all if something showed up in terms of some adrenals issues, maybe some gut issues, maybe infections.” What do you think?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, it’s very possible. Now a lot of vegans and vegetarians, they could still get away with it if they’re using a ton of pea protein or they’re using a ton of free-form amino acids. Or if they’re–

Evan Brand:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Using a ton of—it depends—if they’re allowed to do collagen or not. Sometimes in a powder form they can—they can kinda rationalize to themselves, hemp protein, even rice protein, so if they’re doing a lot of extra amino acid—let’s say they’re supplementing an extra 100g a day, well, that’s a huge step in the right direction. So it’s possible if they’re using supplements to get that, the difference is as a meat eater, as someone who is omnivore who eats both, we can get the extra amino acids from meat, without all the extra carbohydrates. When you’re vegetarian, if you’re—forget using supplementation, if you’re just relying off of whole food, it’s really hard to get the protein in there unless you’re doing soy, pure soy, which we know the detriments of that—we’ll have to do a whole podcast on that and the phytoestrogen effect—but for the most part, you’re gonna be getting a whole bunch of carbohydrates with a little bit of protein so the people that tend to do–

Evan Brand:  Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Good on vegetarian diets are the ectomorphs because they can handle a lot more carbohydrate and it doesn’t affect them, but the mesomorphs or even the endomorphs, right? So go back to our body typing podcast and videos for that info—they tend to be more insulin-resistant and those extra carbohydrates and even some of the—the lectins in the gut, the anti-nutrients and some of those beans and other proteins that vegetarians eat tend to create a lot of gut inflammation.

Evan Brand:  Yup, definitely. So I guess let’s zoom back in to this issue here of why someone may have like a good adrenal results or decent, you know, maybe it’s not stage 3 adrenal fatigue like most people are. What would you first clue into maybe beyond the gut that could be going on?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Well, the first thing is we—we draw like the first layer I kinda draw a triangle, right? And in that triangle when there’s energy issues, we always look at the adrenals from the top. So kinda draw a triangle in your mind, put A on the top. That’s adrenals. Now, at the foundation let’s say we have adrenal symptoms but our adrenals look decent. So adrenal function is this nice cortisol rhythm, high to low cortisol rhythm, right? It’s where cortisol’s higher in the morning which give us energy and it slopes down throughout the day. So if we have adequate cortisol levels, you know, upper 20s to—to lower 30s and we have a good rhythm, well, then the next piece is we look at at the bottom 2 points, which are gonna be thyroid and the mitochondria. And we kinda already touched upon the amino acids because the amino acids are really important for the mitochondria. That’s a really important piece and when we see amino acid issues, we almost always see B vitamin issues because B vitamins tend to get depleted when there’s malabsorption in the gut. And then we also see other nutrients like CoQ10 and L-carnitine and a lot of the Kreb cycle intermediaries like succinate, fumarate and maleate. We’ll see those off on an organic acid test, and then if we go to the other side, that’s the T side, that’s the thyroid, we can see low thyroid function whether it’s primary hypothyroidism with elevations in TSH from the pituitary or whether it’s low T4, right? Your thyroid is not making enough active thyroid—or inactive thyroid hormone or it’s a conversion issue where we’re not converting T4 to T3, and that could happen from gut inflammation, autoimmunity. It could happen from liver issues and/or just low nutrients like selenium, zinc, and vitamin A and copper, etc.

Evan Brand:  Hey, I was gonna stop you there and ask what the conversion issues, you know, I know if you have some adrenal issues, maybe it’s not severe enough adrenal issues to have like a real diagnosis attached to it, but doesn’t that process cortisol and there some interaction there where you reduce the conversion of the T4 to the active T3?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Exactly. So there’s a couple things, right? If cortisol is too high, that can actually increase TSH and that can block the thyroid conversion T4 to T3. If cortisol’s too low, we need some of it to actually get into the cells and to actually help activate T4 to T3 as well. So it’s kinda like the Goldilock’s effect. We—we don’t want so much where it’s—it’s a sign of a stress response, right? Because when cortisol’s high, too high, it’s typically because your Fight or Flight mechanism, right? Your HPA axis—hypothalamus, pituitary, brain, adrenals are active because your body’s sensing stress, so we have that sign and we have it on the low side where we’re now in a chronic stressed out state and now cortisol’s low. So it’s the Goldilock’s effect. We don’t want acute stress happening and we don’t want chronic stress happening, so just enough to help convert that T4 to T3 as essential.

Evan Brand:  Right, and one other thing I wanted to mention, too, is you mentioned things causing issues with the thyroid and the lack of selenium and things like that. What comes to mind for me, too, is you know, a lack of iodine potentially, maybe a lack of some of the amino acids like we talked about like tyrosine specifically and then what about like fluoride and bromide that people are getting if they’re still eating some processed foods or drinking fluoridated tap water for example. Is that a big factor? I mean, is that something—it’s something on my radar but I just don’t know how big of a needle mover it really is compared to some of these other ones.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, I got a video lined up at my queue on my Trello board that I’m gonna do a video on fluoride for the thyroid because they’ve had an epidemiological study over in Europe come out last year where they looked at people who consumed fluoride water, based on the water systems, like they looked at various towns in England. And they found like the towns that had the—the more fluoride in the water had the higher incidence of hypothyroidism.

Evan Brand:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So more low thyroid function was present in people that were having higher amounts and more fluoride consumption in their water supply. So there’s definitely an effect there because fluoride is a—it’s a halide. I think it’s the 6–

Evan Brand:  Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Or 7 periodic table element. I’d have to—to look it up again. My—my biochemistry is a little but fleeting right now, but that—that group, that 7 periodic table, I think it is—is the halide family. Iodine sits there as well and basically, fluoride can get in there and kind of pinch hit and knock fluoride—I’m sorry, knock iodine out of its proper function and role of the iodenation process which is making thyroid hormone, right? When we see T, for T4, that stands for tyrosine. We see the 4 or the 3, that stands for the amount of iodine molecules that are there. So we know iodine is important building block for the production of thyroid hormone.

Evan Brand:  Yeah, the—I’ve been sounding the alarm on fluoride for a while, but I still feel like there’s not enough light on it, and so I guess I’ll do a video as well, and you know, the other piece of it that I looked at, which is maybe a little off-topic, but there’s a study out of China that was looking at children. Some that were exposed maybe different towns like you said, a fluoridated town versus non-fluoridated, and there was a difference of 7 IQ points. When the kids were fluoridated, 7 IQ points lower than a non-fluoridated town. So there is a huge impact on our intelligence as well and it’s no surprise that most of the United States is fluoridated except for 2 cities, I think it’s Portland and I wanna say it’s Houston, which sounds bizarre.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I think—I’m pretty sure it’s Half Moon Bay as well. I know Half Moon Bay up in the Bay Area is an—is a one water supply that was not fluoridated. We had a—when I was in doctoral school, we, a whole class, a whole Public Health class based on us going through the literature on fluoride and it’s pretty crazy the stuff that fluoride is linked up to in the hard core science that people don’t wanna talk about.

Evan Brand:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I mean, like the study that you mentioned, I’ve read Mexico studies. These studies that happened in Mexico where it was like 10 to 15 IQ points. Like just scary stuff and in that—that halide group there is also chlorine, too, and bromine. And bromine, you’re gonna find that in a lot of your conventional bakery foods, a lot of your conventional grains, right? That’s why more reasons not to consume grains. And then your chlorine you’re gonna get that in your conventional water supply as well, so it’s like a double whammy. You don’t just get the fluoride, you get the chlorine as well which are—are problems. And then also people that—that studied fluoride, I’ll have to have like Dr. David Kennedy come on board here or Dr. _____, they’re some great experts on fluoride. But when you get fluoride, it’s not just like sodium fluoride. It’s fluorosalicylic acid which actually has a lot more dangerous compounds in it than just fluoride. So again, those molecules can come in and pinch-hit in the thyroid and really downregulate the thyroid function and the 1940s in Germany, they were using fluoride to treat hyperthyroidism and that was—it was literally a prescription medication that was given to people that had Grave’s or hyper symptoms and because it would go in there and—and pinch-hit and knock down that thyroid function, kinda like reverse T3, you’ve kind of alluded to it. Reverse T3 is when we’re in a stressed out state. Your body will convert T4 to reverse T3 which is like putting blanks, metabolic blank bullets in your metabolic guns so when you pull the trigger, yeah, you get the sound of a bullet, but there’s no bullet that actually comes out, right? You get the hormone going into the thyroid receptor but you don’t have that same kind of metabolic effect, which means you’re gonna have lower thyroid symptoms, the more metabolic reverse T3 or are T3 blanks that that are produced because of stress.

Evan Brand:  Yup, so yeah, and I think I may have mentioned it before but in the concentration camps, in the same time zone around, you know, 30s, 40s, sodium fluoride was used in the water, probably high, high, high doses for the concentration camp victims to keep them very docile.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yup.

Evan Brand:  And very numb almost like operating like a sheep, so not to get conspiratorial here, but hmmm they’re—you know, a lot of our founding fathers said there should be a revolution in the United States every 10 years and it has been quite some time since we’ve had any type of major uprising, and our whole country generally is fluoridated and a lot of people are unhappy with what’s going on in the country, but we’re all fluoridated so it’s almost like we’re too numb to actually respond or actually get energetic enough to do anything about it, so that’s crazy.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Well, it’s do—it’s doing something. We know it, just like, you know, let’s just stick to the facts here, right? We know it’s affecting the thyroid. We know it’s affecting—we know thyroid has a big effect on IQ, right? You look at many women that are—that have low thyroid hormone levels, they’re hypothyroidism through pregnancy, right? We know that that can create lower IQ in the baby, especially if the thyroid problems are caused by very low iodine levels. We know that can cause a form of retardation called cretinism, right? That’s a—that’s basically a totally preventable form of mental retardation because of very low iodine levels. We know it’s affecting the IQ as well just in people that have—were born healthy but are just consuming a lot of it. And if you look at the drug, Prozac. Just look at the organic chemistry of it. Just go to and pull up the organic chemistry of Prozac, you’re gonna see the major molecule of the drug is centered around is a fluoride molecule. So we know that there’s a lot of things that that drug can do, not a lot of good things per se. Now there may be some things like calcium fluoride that are more mineral-based in the water, that are more natural. We’re—we’re talking more of the sodium fluoride and the fluorosalicylic acids that are synthetic, man-made, typically as a result of the—the fertilizer/bomb-making industry. These are a lot of the by-product of those industries and a lot of this actually came about after World War 2 from all the excess bomb-making material that was basically from all the industry, right? A lot of our industry went to making weapons for World War 2, and then this—all these residual things were leftover afterwards, and this is what we’re getting exposed to today. And some great books on this is like Christopher Bryson has a great book on fluoride. See I think that’s Paul Connett. He’s an organic chemist over at St. Lawrence University. We have Dr. David Kennedy, DDS, phenomenal guy, great stuff on fluoride as well. So lots of good information out there and also lots of studies, too. Just Google Harvard Study and fluoride. You’ll see fluoride will actually increase your risk of osteosarcoma especially in boys. These are like a bone and muscle tumors. So we know there’s an increased risk for these compounds and they can affect your thyroid and they can create some of these energy issues that we’re talking about outside of just adrenals.

Evan Brand:  Yup, definitely. So long—long diversion but that still ties in to exactly what we were talking because we’re not gonna be able to see specifically, “Oh, are you getting fluoride exposure?” So we’re just gonna have to kind of ask and pry you for this question and so if you do have fatigue, if you do have hypothyroid symptoms, this is something to really look at and make sure that you are being more diligent about filtering your water. I know Justin you have a whole house system and your water tastes really good. I got to taste your water, and you know, I’m typically going to be doing some type of spring water which does have some natural fluoride but like you mentioned, it’s not the same.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Not the same, yeah.

Evan Brand:  So, yeah, so really, you know, getting a good grip on your water. If that’s the only take away you get from this podcast today, then that’s—that’s fine because this is a factor that is still overlooked, and I can’t tell you the amount of people that I still see drinking tap water. One of my wife’s friends when we were down in Austin, I got on this whole subject with her and was talking about the science and all of that, and she goes, “Evan, I’m not scared.” And she goes over to the sink and pours a big glass of tap water and just starts drinking in, and I’m just like, “You’re not hurting my feeling by doing that, I’m just trying to help you,” you know? And so a lot of people are still—they think this is like a tin foil hat subject for some reason.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I mean, this isn’t that controversial. Just go to the CDC’s website and just look at—just google fluoride and cavity. The CDC’s admitted that the children between 13—or 10 and 14 or 10 and 16, the major cause –the major cause of cavities in that age group is actually—it’s called a dental fluorosis, meaning excess fluoride in the drinking water. That’s like the major cause of cavities in these younger aged children.

Evan Brand:  Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  It’s like, my gosh, I mean I have con—I have conversations with dentists and they aren’t even aware of this stuff, but it’s like the CDC—it’s like it’s admitted that it’s out there. I mean you can just google these things, just type in CDC dental fluorosis, major cause of cavities, and you get a whole bunch of studies coming up and you get the CDC even saying it. So we know it’s out there. It’s real, just you know, things don’t get talked about because there are financial interest out there that, you know, benefit by having that there. So we just wanna empower people, be aware of it. Do your own research, right? That old, Reagan quote, “Trust but verify.” So do some Google work. Pull up some of these studies on Google Scholar or PubMed and do your homework on it, but forget fluoride, right? We know that there’s a lot of other crud and crap in the drinking water. Pharmaceutical drugs are getting in the water, because we don’t have means of filtering these things out, that people throw the—the drugs in there, down the toilet or you know, emptying them out or we have pesticide and chemical residue that goes into the drinking water supply as well. So everyone in their home should have a water filtration system. I have two. I have a whole house water filter, as well as a countertop filter that’s reverse osmosis based that filters out everything and then infuses some minerals back in as well.

Evan Brand:  Yup, that’s great.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So any additional comments on the mitochondria part or the thyroid part, Evan?

Evan Brand:  It’s—it’s something to factor in for sure, you know, if you’re struggling with your program and it hasn’t been addressed. It’s something that you definitely wanna take in to consideration. The mitochondrial support, you know, we talked about the adaptogens a lot. That’s something that I like. I like some of the ribose and some of the PQQ and the other super mitochondrial boosters. It may not be necessary for you, you know, if you look and you get the organics run if you haven’t had it run, you know, by one of us, that’s something that you can have done. A lot of times we’ll see some mitochondrial issues on there and then we’ll know, “Okay, you do need some good mitochondrial support,” and then we bring it in and then the lights come back on and people feel amazing. So it’s always fun to really help people feel better. I think that’s the funnest part about my job is when you jump on the phone with somebody and we’re like checking in, you know, “How are you feeling?” And the energy has tripled. It’s like that is so priceless and it cost maybe $30 for a bottle of supplements that we just needed to prove that they needed and they feel better, so this—I’m just a huge proponent of what we do.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, and then again, right? The reason why we need these things are either because one, we’re burning the candle at both ends and we’re burning through these nutrients faster, and/or we’ve had a poor diet in the past so we have to make up for that, and/or because we’ve had malabsorption because of infection. So you know, we’re—we’re changing the diet. We’re getting to the root cause. We’re fixing the underlying lifestyle and dietary stressors and then also making sure our body is detoxifying, right? Toxins rev up our need for antioxidants and B vitamins and all these minerals that you’re talking about, too. So toxicity from the water. Toxicity from the air, poor food, all of these things are gonna deplete you as well.

Evan Brand:  Yup, definitely.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Well, any additional take homes here, Evan?

Evan Brand:  Not for today. I think probably have to break this up into more podcasts. I know you and I both gotta go to a call, but also there’s a lot of info just in here and we can kind of navigate the river and go down some more smaller diversion topics that we can break down further, but there’s always—there’s always next time.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So I think that the bullet—the bullet point take homes from today’s call is get your adrenals tested, number one. Get on an adrenal program that includes diet and lifestyle and supplement changes. Number three, if you’re not getting the results you’re looking for—5 to 10% improvement each month, then we gotta look at the thyroid. We gotta look at the mitochondria, be it the organic acids, and then once we have that dialed in, then the next piece would be the gut afterwards. Is that a good take home, Evan?

Evan Brand:  That sounds great.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Awesome, man. Well, best of luck with your patients today. You’re gonna knock them dead and we will talk really soon, my man.

Evan Brand:  Same to you. Well, hopefully, I’ll knock ‘em alive.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Knock–yeah, I’m sorry. When I say knock ‘em dead in a good way. We’re—we’re getting to the underlying causes of why they’re feeling the way they’re feeling, but yeah, I get it, man. Cool.

Evan Brand:  Totally. Same to you, my man.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Alright, you take care.

Evan Brand:  See ya.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Bye.

Evan Brand:  Bye.

The top 5 supplements to enhance your work out – Podcast #83

Dr. Justin Marchegiani and Evan Brand talk about workout supplements including workout timing then they really dig into what they themselves use specifically pre and post workout. Find out more about these supplements that you can use to improve your workouts. Basically you have to remember to get diet and sleep dialed in before adding in any workout supplements. 

workout supplementsDiscover the different types of protein powders, collagen, and creatine that can be used for energy performance. Learn about the various adaptogens you can also use before, during, and after your workouts as well as what they can do for your body. Get to know more about branched chain amino acids and mitochondrial support or Kreb cycle nutrients when you listen to this podcast.

In this episode, topics include:

2:06   Supplements to improve workouts

3:20   Protein powders, collagen and creatine

7:53   Adaptogens

12:07   Branched chain amino acids

15:05   What to do for people with adrenal issues

17:31   Why do you exercise?

20:10   Mitochondrial support/Kreb cycle nutrients









Evan Brand:  Dr. J, hello, welcome!

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:   Evan, it’s great to be here. How’s your day going?

Evan Brand:  Hey, it’s great man! It’s Friday. I think our house is gonna blow down. We’re having extreme winds due to the temperature warning but besides that everything’s peachy.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:   That’s great. I’m in an exceptionally good mood this Friday. It’s middle of February and it’s gorgeous here in Austin, Texas.

Evan Brand:  Good.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:   How is it with you over in Louisville?

Evan Brand:  We’re in the mid-60s which is seasonably–unseasonably warm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:   It is.

Evan Brand:  And I’m not complaining, blue skies, so I’m in an equally good mood, too.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:   Love it.

Evan Brand:  Hey, so yesterday I had a guy that commented on my YouTube channel and he said, “Hey, I’m really lovin’ the podcast with you and Dr. Justin. Can you guys do a show on workout supplements?” And this something I don’t think we’ve covered. Maybe I’ve kind of alluded to it before, but I figured this is a perfect time and opportunity for us to really geek out and talk about how the things that we talk about all the time, how those can be specifically used for workouts. And so for me, I, you know, I guess a backstory before I got into the kind of space where I’m at now. I was the guy taking the pre-workouts that had the amino acids in it.  That was great.  The intro workout BCAAs and things like that, but that also had caffeine added to it.  It has sucralose.  It had artificial colors.  Just the generic body building stuff that was like 2009 era when body building was really cool and supplements were what everybody was taking.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:   Yup.

Evan Brand:  I’m sure you remember those days and–and then that died out and now companies are trying to promote more like Paleo-inspired workout supplements which I’m down with as long as it’s not bunk. So now I’ve transitioned into a different supplement protocol and I don’t really–I don’t really take them that much for workouts but we can at least talk about them.  So what about you?  I mean, what’s your history in terms of your fitness?  Did you use to talk that type of silly stuff and then you transitioned into not silly stuff, or tell me about it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, so when it comes to supplements pre or post workout I was a personal trainer for many years.  So I’ve used some of these things on, you know, with my training clients back in the day before I was a doctor and then today I’m kind of more on the functional medicine side but a lot of these things we use in functional medicine practice, but I still use them myself personally with my patients to help improve workouts. So there’s a lot of different things from protein powders that can be helpful, which is low hanging fruit like diet and good multivitamins and fish oils to anti-inflammatory herbs for workouts that are more inflammatory based where you had, you know, that really extra sore muscle tissue after the workout, to creatine and branch chain amino acids to different things afterwards to help you recover.  So there’s a lot of cool things that we can do.  We just wanna make sure we have the foundation right and that is sleep and diet first because if we don’t do that, we’re just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic if you will.

Evan Brand:  Totally, yeah, so as always, we’ve probably talked about this before.  But if you’re listening to this, we’re assuming that you already have the sleep dialed in, you already have the nutrition dialed in, now you’re ready to spend the extra money on some of the supplements to supplement the great things that you have in place.  So you mentioned the protein.  That was also something that I also switched around to.  I was doing just the Optimum Nutrition garbage whey protein quality I’m sure back in the day, now using just a different blend.  Sometimes collagen protein, sometimes colla-gelatin protein, sometimes grass-fed whey, sometimes I’m actually just getting into the beef.  I know you love the beef protein.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:   Like beef, too, yeah.

Evan Brand:  So I’m gonna just kind of switch over and–and integrate that as well, and then what else am I doing lately?  I’ve-I’ve done creatine and I–I just, I know you get the water whey, I know, I mean, I know you get the–the increased strength and things why you’re on it, but as soon as I come off of creatine, I feel so depleted so it almost makes me not want to go back on it ever again. What about you?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, so off the bat, a real simple thing is once the diet’s there and a good multi and a good fish oil is there as kind of foundation, good protein powder can be helpful, especially if you’re doing a morning workout.  So a lot of people will go and they’ll work out on an empty stomach, where if you’re doing maybe a–a 10, 15, maybe a 20-minute workout in the morning, a quick a circuit or Tabata or interval kind of hit type of training, that may be okay. That may be fine as long as you come back and have a good shake or eat your breakfast, that may be fine. Again, in the morning time when you wake up, our cortisol rhythm is at its peak, so cortisol’s the highest and if we’re doing a workout and our body’s reaching for amino acids and nothing’s in the bloodstream outside of access to our muscle tissue, guess what’s gonna be used up?

Evan Brand:  Yeah, it’s your muscle tissue.  I’m a–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:   Muscle.

Evan Brand:  It happened to me.  I shrunk.  I mean, I’m pretty strong and I’ve got a good shape to me now but I mean, I lost 20-25 lbs over a year just a cortisol bomb from excess stress, man.  It wasn’t worth it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:   I know, well, you’re–you’re jacked up again, so that’s good. 

Evan Brand:  Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:   I’m really happy to see that and I got your on Skype video today so–

Evan Brand:  Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:   I can actually be a testimonial to that.

Evan Brand:  Yeah, so–so you didn’t answer the question yet.  Did you–did you have experience with creatine?  Do you use it?  Did you use it previously?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:   So regarding with creatine, creatine I have used it.  There’s a couple of different types of creatine.  There’s phosphocreatine and this Kre-Alkalyn creatine.  Again creatine works by giving your muscle that extra few seconds of instantaneous fuel which is great for like powerlifting or having a really powerful movement pattern for those first 3 to 10 seconds.  And I do have experience with it and I do find it to be very helpful.  There’s some research showing that it can increase growth hormone as well.  It just depends on what your goal is.  If you’re trying to get into the gym and maximize your lifts and continue to increase in weight, will it provide a little benefit, a little growth hormone boost?  Yes.  Do I use it every day?  No.  My staples are gonna be–I’ll just start off from one, would be protein powder. I like that in the morning because I can just mix it with water and/or collagen, whether it’s whey protein, grass-fed whey, whether it’s branched chain aminos with it, whether it’s collagen or beef or pea, I’ll typically choose one or two.  I’ll mix collagen in it and I’ll do that first thing in the morning, which is water, so then I have amino acids flowing in my bloodstream, so when I work out my body can access that and it will grab that over the muscle because it’s–it’s already there.  It’s–it’s low hanging fruit if you will.

Evan Brand:  Yeah, totally.  Yeah, I’ve actually–I’ve, I’ve ran across a study the other day that was talking about Kre-Alkalyn and how it’s no superior benefit over the regular creatine.  So I use, I think it’s the German one, the Creapure–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:   Uh-hmm.

Evan Brand:   The type of monohydrate, I just–I get so damn thirsty while I’m on creatine that it’s just–it’s exhausting.  I mean, you’re drinking so much more water for me at least to stay hydrated.  Even I throw in more electrolytes and everything, it’s just I’m chasing the dragon and that’s why I’ve kind of not taken it very often anymore.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And I think everyone here should kind of look and see where they’re at, assess what they’re goals are.  If your goal–again, most people frankly their goal regarding health and exercise is just to look good naked.

Evan Brand:  Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:   And that’s–but pretty much it.  We wanna go a little bit deeper and be healthy and have energy, but that’s it.  Now outside of that, if you’re trying to perform better, whether it’s in your CrossFit, at an exercise or sport, these extra performance things may be worth it for you.  So we’re gonna go through a couple of things here.  Try them, see how it looks and feels, see if you get an extra benefit and then if you do, then you just gotta weigh it out, is it worth it for you?  So we got the superficial side, looking good, and then we have the energy performance side and just trying to kick more butt.  If you’re one of these people that it makes your month by having a PR and a certain lift, these supplements may help get you there outside of all the foundational stuff we already mentioned.

Evan Brand:  Totally, so I would–I would say I guess we’ll talk level 2, for me, which I guarantee this is where you would eventually go to is–is to the adaptogens. So rhodiola is really awesome for endurance.  So I talked about it before when I used to work at the park and I was hiking miles and miles per day, and I was exhausted at the end of the day.  As soon as I started adding in about a 500mg of rhodiola per day, my exhaustion was gone.  My mood was better.  I felt so damn good by the end of the work day, I was like, “Wow, I can hike another 8 hours.”  And it’s really a staple supplement for me in terms of performance, and then mushrooms are something that I’ll get to, but I wanted to see if there’s any herbs that you wanted to add to–to the picture here. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:   Yup, I’m a big fan of adaptogens just to help buffer cortisol, to help with mood, also some adaptogenic herbs like eleuthero have been used for many, many decades.  There’s a protocol called the Russian Protocol where eleuthero has been used to improve sex hormones like DHEA and testosterone which can be helpful for workout recovery.  So that’s a really great adaptogen for overall performance enhancement in the gym.  Also Tribulus is one that improves LH which women can help with–or FSH in women, which could help with estrogen balance and in men, it’s LH, which helps with testosterone.  So it can be very good to give yourself that anabolic boost in your workouts.

Evan Brand:  Yes, some people, I don’t know why some companies, they’ll–if people are looking and you don’t see eleuthero, sometimes you’ll see it called Siberian ginseng.  I don’t know why they call it that and not eleuthero but in case you’re looking on a label, that’s–that’s what you’re looking for, it’s the Siberian.  I know the Panax ginseng.  They have the American ginseng out there, too, but specifically for performance, to me I felt best on the Siberian, the eleuthero, and then combine that cordyceps which is my favorite performance-enhancing mushroom.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:   Yup.

Evan Brand:  I think you and I have talked about that before for other uses.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:   And cordyceps is great for modulating the immune system, but it also improves DHEA, so I think it’s having that DHEA benefit and regarding ginsengs, a lot of these adaptogenic herbs are in the family known as ginseng.  So you have like maca is Peruvian ginseng, ashwagandha is Indian ginseng, red root or I think–I think it’s–let me see here, the Panax angustifolia, that’s I think American ginseng.  And there’s a couple other; Siberian ginseng’s eleuthero, and there’s a handful of others going around there.  But they add ginseng to it, so they may get confused with the same names, people think they’re the same herbs, so just kind of keep that mind.

Evan Brand:  Yeah, there’s like a Korean ginseng I know. The–the reason that–that I like eleuthero is because most of the time when I read research on it, they consider it the least stimulating of ginsengs where you’re not pushing people into like anxiety, but we’re still kinda giving a good adaptogenic effect behind the scenes, and so combining the Siberian ginseng with the cordyceps, with the rhodiola, I mean, that’s an incredible stack just for daily life, but if you are trying to stay up on your game, because here’s the thing, I–I worry about maybe we could digress from the supplements a little bit, is that I worry that a lot of people–well, it’s not that I worry, I see it–a lot of people they don’t have a protocol in place and so they keep working out harder and harder, and they like they keep wanting to get gains, but then they hit this plateau or they push themselves into adrenal issues.  I know you and I have spoken about CrossFit a dozen times, and it’s like you don’t have to–you don’t have to beat yourself down like that because then you’ll run into a bunch of other problems and then you’re taking other supplements to try to rebound your health that you screwed up in the first place from a workout that was too frequent, you didn’t have enough rest time in between, didn’t have these amino acids you’ve talked about, didn’t have, you know, too intense or too long in duration, things like that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:   Yeah, I agree. So if we summarize, protein powder’s great, pre-workout just to get in your system.  It’s also great post-workout.  Now again people are thinking, “Well, why don’t we just eat protein?”  Well, it just takes a few hours to get into that amino acid form, right?  An hour to pass the stomach, another hour to to the small intestine, getting into the bloodstream.  It may take a couple of hours, so the protein powder gets in your system, in your body in 20 minutes.  So that’s why we like that.

Evan Brand:  And I know you’ve talked about using freeform amino acid, so when you’re working out, like currently with your plan, are you doing BCAAs in like a powder or are you doing capsules?  What’s your kind of preferred method and–and are you taking BCAAs?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:   Yeah, so BCAAs are great.  These are branched chain amino acid– leucine, valine and isoleucine–no, I think it’s–

Evan Brand:   Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:   Is that correct?

Evan Brand:  That’s it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:   Yeah.

Evan Brand:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:   Okay, those are the major ones.  Now the benefit of those branched chain aminos is our muscles can take those amino acids up for fuel right away.  Typically when our body uses amino acids for fuel, it has to go through a process known as gluconeogenesis.  I know if Jimmy Moore, he’d love that.  That’s my impression of him.  So gluco- means glucose, neo means new, genesis means forming.  So it’s the formation of new glucose through protein and it’s a cortisol-dependent step, that’s why, you know, sometimes going too low carb can be stressful on your adrenals, but your body takes that glucose or takes that protein, brings it into glucose, and then uses the glucose for fuel.  So it’s a very roundabout way of generating energy.  The branched chain aminos are great because it’s just, Boom!  It’s right there.  We’re just using those aminos for fuel right away.  It’s just more direct.  So it’s great if you’re doing more intense workouts that could be catabolic and breaking down tissue because you can put that in, you can sip 20 grams of it, according to Charles Poliquin, it’s a pretty good place to be at.  During the workout you can do it 10 pre, 10 post.  I’ll just have a little cup with me and just sip it during.  There’s one that I–I created BCAA synergy on my site that is branched chain amino acids sweetened with Stevia.  The majority is sweetened with aspartame and sucralose or Splenda which are bad.  So I have that one that I’ve formulated and I use that.  It works great.  And I like that during the workout.  So my favorite off the bat supports are gonna be protein powder, adaptogens like your mentioned–cordyceps, medicinal mushrooms which I consider an adaptogen–and some of the BCAAs as well.  Any thoughts?

Evan Brand:  Yeah.  No, that’s–that’s a pretty good summary and a lot of people they’ll go towards the caffeine, they’ll go towards the stimulants.  You really don’t need that.  It’s you don’t have to be so jacked up during your workouts.  Your goal is to break down the muscle tissue by using more reps and more weight than you did last time and that’s the goal.  It’s to break down the muscle tissue, have these little micro tears in there so that you can rebuild it.  The goal is not to destroy yourself and if you’re feeling just awful after your workout and even an hour or 2 hours after you just feel dead, you’re pushing it too hard.  It doesn’t have to be that hard.  A lot of the stuff that I do and I maintain a 6-pack year-round, and I maintain a–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:   (whistles)

Evan Brand:   Which, you know, I–I’m–I’m an ectomorph. I’m naturally skinnier anyway.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:   Love it.

Evan Brand:  So–so I’m able to.   People are, “Oh, that doesn’t count.  You’re just skinnier.”  But it’s strength, too, from the core and I don’t ever really put myself into an extreme state where I’m on the ground exhausted.  I’m covered in sweat.  I see people all the time.  They take pictures of themselves on social media like, “Oh, I’m so dead from my workout.”  It’s like, I don’t ever want to feel like that. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:   Right.

Evan Brand:  That’s garbage.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:   And then the 3 rules I give all my patients with adrenal issues or adrenal dysfunction, adrenal fatigue is number one, make sure your workout’s energizing.  Number two, make sure you can emotionally repeat the workout.  Like in your head, you’re like, “Alright 10 minutes, can I do it again?”  If you’re like, “Whoa, no way!”  Then you’re probably doing too much.  You wanna feel like you can kinda get your arms around like, “Yeah, I can do that again.  That’s no problem.”  And then number three, how do you feel later on that day if it’s a morning workout or that next morning if it’s an afternoon or nighttime workout?  Do you feel hit by a bus?  You know, factoring in you slept good and you ate good.  Or do you feel pretty good the next day?  So if you answer positively to those questions then you’re okay.  If you answer negatively where it’s fatigue, yeah, you emotionally can’t do it or hit by a bus the next morning, you probably wanna curtail your exercise, either do shorter workouts and/or more rest time in between, or decrease the intensity a bit, too, if that’s needed.

Evan Brand:  Totally, yeah.  I would say most people are on one end of the spectrum.  One spectrum being they’re not getting exercise at all and they need more and then the other spectrum for some reason, I–I don’t know about you but I don’t have many clients that are in that middle ground.  It’s either they aren’t doing anything and they wanna start or they’re training for a triathlon or some goofy mudrunner event, some 48-hour endurance event.  I told you about last week with one guy and it’s like we just have to just find a happy medium.  You don’t have to be so crazy.  Exercise is something that was built into our ancestors’ lifestyle.  This is just something we did.  If we had our hunter-gatherer ancestors around to watch us and our CrossFit box doing X amount of intensity stuff, they would literally laugh at us because the goal back then was to only use and expend what energy was necessary.  And even Dave Asprey talks about this.  His main goal is to do the–the least amount possible and still maintain, you know, healthy muscle mass.  And I have a similar goal.  I could say maybe I’m a little bit step above that, but I wanna do pretty much what I have to do to maintain muscle and feel good and feel strong.  I’d be able to sprint as fast as I need to and beyond that, I don’t really care.  I don’t really care about numbers.  I don’t really care about personal records and it’s not to say that I’m tooting my horn, but this is something, a more realistic approach to people I think than always carrying around like the little journal with the pen and like, “Oh, I went down 5 lbs–”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:   Yeah.

Evan Brand:   “In my bench this week.” 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:   Yeah.

Evan Brand:  It’s like, who cares, man?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:   Right, right, I agree.  You know, why do you exercise?  And I typically exercise to put force and demand on my muscle and bone structure so it grows and stays strong, and then number two, to alter my hormones in a way that keeps me healthy and youthful, right?  We know part of the stimulation to the brain comes through movement, so I’m also working out for my brain.  I think if that’s hard to get people’s head to wrap around that, pun intended, because exercise has a lot to do with your brain.  You’re stimulating the–the motor cortex, the sensory cortex in the brain, which keeps it stimulated, which keeps it growing, because if you don’t use it, you lose it.  And that plasticity that the brain typically creating more neural connection is gonna be based on stimulation.  So keep the brain moving and Socrates even knew this, too.  The–the famous philosopher, he had a lot of his scholars and students in the philosophy schools training with the Olympic athletes of that day because he knew thinking, real thinking, was dependent upon movement and he had them training with the top athletes of that–of that era.

Evan Brand:  That’s so cool.  Yeah.  I–I know for a fact, you know, anecdotally and just when I go out, and I go for a hike or I’m actually in the gym, I just–when I’m done, I’m just like, “Oh, my mental clarity is enhanced so much,” and I mean, it’s such a great feeling.  Maybe we can say that’s due to a little spike in cortisol that we’re causing from the exercise.  It’s hard to say, but I know the BDNF that we could geek out on, that goes up, too.  So it’s–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:   Yup.

Evan Brand:  Hard to say, but it’s–it’s a real tangible feeling and people out there listening that you may be struggling with motivation and you’re like, “Oh, I just–I need to get motivated to work out.”  You know, look at the lifestyle and we talked about the foundations, like sometimes if you need the motivation, the best way is just to do it.  You might not, if like if you wait around for inspiration or you wait around to feel motivated to go to the gym, you may never do it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:   Right, right.

Evan Brand:  Sometimes you just have to act and then maybe that will start the–the snowball.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:   80% of life is just showing up.  It’s very rare to show up to the gym and not work out.  So if you can just like say, “You know what, I’m feeling like crap today, I’m just gonna show up and then if I leave in 2 minutes or 5 minutes, fine.  If I just do a 4-minute Tabata and I’m out, fine.”  If you can kind of just get your, you know, have that conversation with yourself to get yourself cajoled to the gym and just do even 4 minutes’ worth or just do a set of biceps or set of squats and leave, fine.  But a lot of times momentum starts to grow and you start having a better workout.

Evan Brand:  Yeah, I guess maybe we should–I think we have covered everything, but I would say we should talk about what we haven’t recommended for supplementation?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:   Actually there’s one more thing I wanna touch upon that–that I would like. 

Evan Brand:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:   So there’s a mitochondrial support product, MitoSynergy that I’ve formulated but I’m gonna just breakdown some of the nutrients in it that I like.  So in this product we have the L-carnitine which I like because L-carnitine’s important with bringing fat into the mitochondria.  That can be very helpful especially people that have protein issues, you need methionine and lysine to make carnitine in your body.  So if you have protein issues, carnitine can be super helpful.  Also curcumin, it’s an anti-inflammatory herb. Again some of the inflammation after the workout can be, you know, you can help reduce some of that which is great, so less soreness.  So I like curcumin as well.  Also ribose.  Ribose is an awesome nutrient that’s great for the Kreb cycle and for generating ATP, that’s great as well.  And then B vitamins.  It’s an amazing what simple activated, methylated B vitamins can do for energy.  So I put these all in one bottle but you–anyone listening can look for those things individually and think about it and try to make sure you have those in your workout.  We’ll put some links in the show notes as well, but those are some great things.  And even Kreb cycle nutrients such as malic acid and succinic acid and fumaric acid.  These are Kreb cycle nutrients that our Kreb cycle which generates ATP which is like the currency of energy in our cells, those are some Kreb cycles nutrients that can be used to generate more ATP as well.

Evan Brand:  Yeah.  I forgot about taurine.  Taurine’s another good one that I’ve used isolated and had–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:   Yup.

Evan Brand:  Great results with it–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:   Yeah, so just–

Evan Brand:  For the heart.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:   Yeah, just to summarize that MitoSynergy product, those key ingredients you wanna look for is the ribose, the carnitine, and then on that vein, CoQ10 also fits there well–it fits there as well–the B vitamins and the curcumin or the anti-inflammatory turmeric to help buffer inflammation post-workout.

Evan Brand:   Nice.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:   I like those.  Anything you wanna add about that?

Evan Brand:  No, I think that’s good.  I mean, the mitochondrial support is good, too, so the–the PQQ is helpful.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:   Yup.

Evan Brand:  I haven’t used it specifically for workouts, but that’s another one and just combi–I mean, there is–there is a synergy without a doubt with all these ingredients together.  So kind of mixing and blending, and just kind of taking your time with everything.  You know, just do your research and be smart about it, but generally adding things together really amplifies the effect.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:   Yeah, I’m at a place where I’m just trying to formulate things for me that I’m using myself.  I know you’re doing the same thing with some of the adaptogens that you’re creating and some of the things that I’m doing.  So we’re just like at the place in our health careers where we’re like, “Alright, let’s just start creating–creating what we want for ourselves and then we can just share it with people and if they’re interested, that’s great.” But we can at least break down what about the constituents are so good so that people can apply this information to other things that are out there.  So so far I think we have our good, clean protein powders and collagens.  We have adaptogenic herbs and medicinal mushrooms.  We have branched chain amino acids.  We have creatine.  We have Kreb cycle nutrients and B vitamins, CoQ10, and ribose and anti-inflammatory curcumin.

Evan Brand:  Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:   Anything you wanna add to that?

Evan Brand:  Yes, I do.  One last thing, something that’s been really helpful for some–a few of my older female clients that are avid bike riders and they’re avid powerlifters and things like that, they’re kinda go-getters, we’ve used the ArthoSoothe gel from Designs.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:   Well, yes.  Yes.

Evan Brand:  Because it has the menthol in there.  It’s–I believe it’s got maybe peppermint or eucalyptus oil in there as well. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:   It’s got some enzymes, too.

Evan Brand:   Yeah and I–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Boswellia, too.

Evan Brand:  Yeah, I think boswellia.  Aloe maybe even?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:   Uh-hmm.

Evan Brand:  I can’t remember. But I’ve used that with great success and they kind of rub it on their joints, their elbows, their knees, whatever–from a topical perspective, too.  And I would–I would consider that a good like post-workout thing, I mean, internally is huge getting the nutrients in.  But externally we can do some stuff, too, and that’s definitely superior than some of the creams and stuff you’ll at a generic Walgreen’s or something that are gonna be loaded with methylparabens and all these other preservatives and stuff that you really don’t want in your body or on your skin.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:   That’s great and also one last little thing that can be a gem because a lot of this is post-workout timing, but getting a little bit of extra carbohydrate, maybe 30 or 40 grams, 20 to 40 grams depending on how healthy you are post-workout can make a big difference in increasing insulin and people may think, “Well, insulin’s bad.”  But insulin’s also a growth hormone so to speak.  It helps bring things into cells.  Now most people are having too much insulin.  They’re bringing carbohydrate into their cells and converting it to fat, but we can use insulin and spike it by having a little bit of carbs and then putting a whole bunch of protein along with it and that will bring those amino acids into the cells, i.e., our muscles to help our muscles grow but that insulin bump can also help blunt the effects of cortisol post-workout.  So higher insulin can actually drop cortisol and again a lot of body builders at a higher level use insulin from an injection standpoint which I would not recommend because you could go hypoglycemic, you can go into a coma or–or shock.  So you don’t wanna do that supplementally, but you can use diet to artificially boost up insulin, blunt cortisol, and shuttle more nutrients and amino acids into the muscle for repair.

Evan Brand:  Yeah, so not chocolate milk, but maybe a sweet potato with some butter and cinnamon instead.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:   Dude, that is my workout–that is my post-carb meal right there, or a little bit of plantains, too.  Those are good or some of the yuca rolls.  Those can be amazing.

Evan Brand:  I’ve never had that. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:   Oh, they got that in Whole Foods now.  If you go to like a Estancia, it’s in Austin, or if you go to like a–a big chain is Fogo de Chao.

Evan Brand:   Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:   They have some of these yuca rolls which can be really nice or yuca fries can be great.

Evan Brand:  Yummy.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:   Like those.  Are there any other closing thoughts here, Evan?

Evan Brand:  That’s it.  I think we wrapped it up and you know, the one thing I kind of hit on early that I didn’t complete the sentence of is just watch out for the garbage pre-workout stuff.  There’s lot of these like–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:   Yes.

Evan Brand:  Fat burners and thermogenics and all of these stiumulants and too much Guarana and–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:   Yes.

Evan Brand:  3–400mg of caffeine.  You’ve got artificial blue colors.  You’ve got–oh, God, there’s so much garbage workout supplements out there.  Be smart, I mean, support the body system.  You don’t have to have this like super trendy sounding workout, pre-workout thing to get you going.  Support the body.  Use the mushrooms, use the herbs, use the vitamins, use the proteins, use the real food, use the sleep, the stress reduction, etc. and you’re not gonna need any of that garbage and you’re gonna save your money and your health.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:   Yeah, and I find sometimes it’s good having a little bit of supplement that can give you that little bit of boost or energy because sometimes for me it’s like I just need that little bit of energy kick to get me motivated, so using some, whether it’s the herbs that are adaptogenic or using some of the Kreb cycle nutrients like the B vitamins or the L-carnitine or ribose, for me it can give me that just a little bit of energy kick which allows me to feel more motivated to get up and go to the gym.

Evan Brand:  Yeah, I–I’ll do matcha occasionally as well–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:   Matcha.

Evan Brand:  Just kinda pre-workout, yeah, we’re all get–you know, 40, maybe 50mg of caffeine with a little bit of theanine in there, some kinda calm and clear and–and that’s my pre-workout caffeine boost if any.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:   Great, and then what about workout timing?  Do you like to do it before 6 or 7pm at night?  These are a time threshold for you?

Evan Brand:  Oh yeah, yeah, totally.  I–and I–I’m sure you would say the same to your patients is I don’t recommend the super late workouts because then people can’t sleep good because you’re bumping that cortisol up too much and pumping out adrenalin and stuff like that, so I try to get a midday workout in and I know maybe everybody doesn’t have the luxury, but I feel best in-between my 10am and 1pm if I can get a workout in between, you know, after breakfast but before lunch, I feel the best.  And then lunch is just so delicious, like I worked out legs real hard the other day–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:   Yeah.

Evan Brand:  And I came home and I made some elk burgers and I had tons of butter with some purple potatoes and some pink salt–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Purple, huh?

Evan Brand:   Oh, I felt so good. Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:   That’s amazing.  Yeah, I think at least a 3-hour buffer before bed.  Anyone that has HPA axis dysfunction–hypothalamic, pituitary, adrenal issues, adrenal fatigue is the slang–you oughta be careful because it’s easy to get those sympathetics, the sympathetic nervous system, that fight or flight nervous system ramped up and then once it’s on, it’s hard to–to turn off and that can really disrupt your sleep if you work out too late.

Evan Brand:   Yeah, and–and what would you say? I’d say 99 out of 100 people listening have some level of HPA dysfunction, so pretty much everybody.  Don’t work out late at night. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:   Yeah, and if you do, well, hit up some of the adaptogens, hit up some magnesium powder, maybe some Phenibut after your workout.  Do some things to help calm you down and bring you down.  That could be a good strategy if you do.

Evan Brand:  Right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:   Cool, Evan.  Anything else?

Evan Brand:  No, that’s it, man.  That was fun.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:   Anyone listening here that enjoys the podcast, give us a review over on iTunes, click below, so it gets more information and to help kind of keep sharing the word and feel free and write to us because we’ve been doing podcast on viewer’s topics the last few weeks.  So we wanna provide everyone listening more great info, so feel free and reach out the squeaky wheel gets the oil.

Evan Brand:  Yeah, yeah, the YouTube channel’s a good place, too.  You could check the videos out there that we have and then there’s–the comments are there for a reason.  So it’s not that we don’t have stuff that we wanna talk about, but we obviously want to prioritize which you are interested in.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:   That’s it.  Awesome, Evan.  You have a great Friday!

Evan Brand:  Take care.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:   Bye.

Evan Brand:  Bye.



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