The Nuts and Bolts of Your Mitochondria – How to Enhance Mitochondrial Function | Podcast #349

Have you ever thought about what powers are inside your body? In this video, Dr. J and Evan talk about mitochondria and how to boost them.

When we talk about your body’s powers, the easy answer is nutrients, of course! Our body transforms those nutrients into energy, and it’s that energy that boosts the cells in our body. All types of cells have small generators called mitochondria that, in many ways, are their sources for life. Mitochondria are the only part of the cell where our basic life requirements — food and air — are combined to make energy in a process known as the Krebs cycle.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

In this episode, we cover:

0:00:      Introduction
1:30:      The role of creatine in mitochondria
6:34:      Energy pathways
14:47:    Cell Danger Response
16:07:    Citric Acid Cycle

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mitochondrial function, your mitochondria, little the powerhouses in your cell and they help generate ATP which is the cellular currency of energy so to speak. And we’re going to talk about natural ways to improve mitochondrial function, Evan, and how we doing today, man.

Evan Brand: Doing really well. I think first, let’s dive into some of the big assaults that we have as a modern society on mitochondria. And that could be anything from viruses, bacteria, parasites, gut infections, pesticides, herbicides, heavy metals, plastics, phthalate’s, the BPA, the BPS, flame retardants, nonstick chemicals, car exhaust, air pollution. That I miss any I mean.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Like you hit a lot of I would say being sedentary. There’s a lot of mitochondria in your muscles. And if you don’t do enough, you’ll put enough force to those muscles, they will atrophy. And so just not doing enough about creating enough stimulus on your body. That could definitely we can and decrease your mitochondria in your muscles. So, I would say, sedentary and in active resistance through your muscles.

Evan Brand: OK, OK that’s a good point.  That’s a good point. So, you’re saying that, like, just in general, you have to have some level of physical stimulation physical activity to keep the mitochondria working. I guess it’s kind of like an old car that you’ve sat there…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: All your muscles at least. Yeah, ’cause if you decrease, you know your muscle levels via just atrophy due to lack of use. Yeah, your muscles will shrink absolutely and that’s your mitochondria will shrink for.

Evan Brand:  Sure, what about creatine? Do you know anything about the role of creatine in mitochondria? ’cause I know when I’m taking creatine, I just I feel stronger? Obviously, there’s creatine’s used a lot in like bodybuilding world, but there’s gotta be a mitochondrial mechanism there because I’ll tell you I feel like. I can lift, you know, at least a good 1020 pounds heavier on particular exercises with creatine in my system.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, me crazy definitely has an effect on growth hormone and improving growth hormone stuff that will help with muscle. Creatine is like instant energy for the muscle. So, it’s it’s there. It’s ready to be used right away in that first 10 seconds or five, five to 10 seconds of muscle use or like explosion movement through that muscle. So, that definitely plays a role in muscle. I’m not sure how it plugs in 100%. I see ’cause really you know with ATP right in the mitochondrial function? If you look inside the mitochondria you have glycolysis and then you have the electron transport chain. Or I’m sorry, you have the Krebs cycle citric acid cycle and that plugs into the electron transport chain. So, glycolysis that’s going to be utilizing the carbohydrate in the muscle right glycogen in the muscle. Fast immediate source. I think creating plugs into that top part. And then you have the Krebs cycle citric acid cycle, where B vitamins, magnesium. All these different things kind of plug into that and with that. With the citric acid or Kreb cycle, that didn’t mean the same thing. Essentially, they’re grabbing hydrogens, right? So, there it’s it’s a reducing agent, so it’s just grabbing reproduce. Reduction is a gain in electrons and so you have NAD goes around. Then it grabs NADH so you get 3 NADH and I think 1FADH2 so you have FADH. And it grabs another hydrogen and that becomes FADH2, and so it’s grabbing all these hydrogens. And then it’s essentially bringing those hydrogens downstream into the electron transport. Jane and Beta fatty acid oxidation there and so yeah, I think you generate was at 36 to 39 ATP through the Krebs cycle and the electron transport chain.

Evan Brand: Unless you’re in like chronic fatigue stayed, this cell danger response, and I think you’re spitting out something low like 2 maybe 3 ATP. I’ve read about this cell danger response. They just call it HDR in the literature, but it talks about how. The cell danger response, could be initiated by trauma or a car wreck or even mold exposure or tick-borne illnesses, or viruses. There’s a lot of you know, Epstein Barr. You’ll see the link between like mono and chronic fatigue. It said that these people are in this state of just a low power output, or even if you have the nutrients, you’re just not generating the ATP with some I don’t know if it was Caitlyn or somebody that you and I had looked into where there was a talk on this about. How the w the the ATP was literally in the single digits. The low single-digit output in some of these states. So, the message here is that for people that have chronic fatigue, you got to realize there is a mitochondrial component to this. Why don’t we talk about testing a little bit? The main thing that you and I are going to look at is going to be the organic acids. I know there are some other tests out there. I’ll admit I’ve had clients send them to me such as the mito swab. I’ve not run the model swab. Personally, I don’t know enough about it to speak on it much, but I’ll just say that it does exist. I believe it is a a mouth swab and it’s probably looking at just a couple generic markers in the saliva. But we like to use the organic acids test because, as you mentioned, there’s the Krebs cycle metabolites on there. We can look into the supinate or what some people call succinic acid. You’ve got the malic acid. You’ve got fumarate. There are other markers on there, and we we see when people have talks and exposure. Like I said in the beginning, the heavy metals, the mold, the pesticides will see those. Mitochondrial markers go up. And the higher the numbers go, generally, the more tired someone is because that indicates more damage to that Krebs cycle. So, the oh is huge, and then obviously we’ll look at stool too. Now the stool test you don’t measure like the stool tests we’re running. You’re not measuring mitochondrial function, but I look at it in a roundabout way. Meaning if you have all these gut infections producing toxins that could be damaging mitochondria as well, so we know that when we clear the gut out, we see the mitochondrial function improve.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. Yep 110%. I want to just put something on screens. People can see it here I guess is really helpful.

Evan Brand: Have you seen or heard about that my to swab before? Have you seen anybody send you those?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I have, I’ve ran up. Fulham, it’s kind of a binary test. It gives you a result my the issue I have it’s not a lot of actionable information. It’s like OK, you know there’s some issues there, but then now what’s, what’s the remedy that you’re going to plug in from a diet lifestyle supplement? Toxin reduction execution right? What’s the next step on it? So that’s the problem with some. Of those tests, I always. Look and I always ask well what’s the corrective action based on the test showing uses a concern.

Evan Brand: Yeah, yeah

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That makes sense.

Evan Brand: That’s the problem with a lot of them like I’ve seen a lot of these stool testing companies. Same thing there’s like so much data. Well, this percent of this bacteria and this percent of that. It’s like, what do I do with that? Is that an infection? Is that not an infection? So you and I’ve seen the same problem in other categories of health tests do.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. I want to show a couple things on screen here? Just so it’s crystal. Where the mitochondria is and how all these different energy pathways plug in, I think it’s important I’m going to pull it up here on screen in just a second so people can see it.

Evan Brand: Yeah, people listening on audio, they’re going to be lost. So just look up Doctor Justin YouTube page and you’ll be able to view some of this stuff. Some stuff, like mitochondria, gets a bit geeky. The the main thing here is toxins are a big factor in damaging this cycle and you gotta get toxins out. Reduce exposure where you can and we can run actually chemical test on your current too so we could talk about that in a minute.


Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely, and so if you look here right. Do you have the mitochondria right here. Some middle part, the mitochondri. The outer part is the cytosol.  So, from what I understand, like creatine is going to plug more into the cytosol and glycolysis, OK, but then you’re going to see you get about two ATP which is adenosine triphosphate. And this gets broken down into ADP and you get energy right? And so, you have glycolysis which generates a little bit of ATP 2. And creatine to plug more on the outside then that goes into your mitochondria. Now you have the Krebs cycle and the electron transport chain electron transport chains part of also the beta fatty acid oxidation. That’s how you burn fat for fuel. OK, so Krebs cycle that churns around twice, and essentially what you’re doing is you’re gathering NAD and FADH2. NAD&FADH are grabbing hydrogen so and a design to grab a hydrogen making NAD. HFADH is going to grab a hydrogen, making FADH2, so I think you’re going to grab it’s like two or three. NADH is, and then one FADH2. And all those hydrogens then go into the electron transport chain here and this is where you generate most of your ATP. And again, what comes out, oxygen comes and this is why, if you’re like anemic right? And you’re not carrying oxygen. Well, that’s why you’re going to get tired and this is going to have an effect on your thyroid and your adrenals because the mitochondria is important for energy at all levels. And so if we have anemic issues or were inflamed because inflammation is going to make it harder to carry oxygen all. And also nutrition, because this electron transport chain, when we run the organic acid test, we can look at citrate, malate, fumarate, succinate. These are important metabolic essentially inputs into the Krebs cycle that correlate with certain nutrients like amino acids, alpha-lipoic acid, magnesium B vitamins, and so we can get a window on how this. Krebs Cycle was functioning based on the organic acid testing at some of those compounds and then all sister connotate citrate, right? These are really important, and then electron transport chain we can get a window into things like carnitine and Co Q10 ’cause they also play a major role in the electron transport chain. So we get a good window with how the mitochondrial function functioning by looking at the B vitamins and looking at a lot of these nutrients and so essentially things that can impair this. As you mentioned, pesticides. Heavy metals, mold toxins, antibiotics, and all these things have a negative impact. But that’s kind of how things look, so we have. Glycolysis is the first part that then goes into the mitochondria, and then we have Krebs cycle and electron transport chains. These are the big three. If you can kind of zoom out and see how it looks and how it makes sense. That should hopefully make more sense, so on that front. Any question that, Evan?

Evan Brand:  Well people listening to that. They’re going to be like wow, this sounds like a really crazy rare problem, right? This must be just rare. This must be like a one in million case and I would say. Not going to say 99. I would say 90% of the people we work with. I see some level of mitochondrial dysfunction or damage either on the chemical profile test, so that’s something I alluded to earlier. We can run chemicals so we can look at gasoline. We can look at xylene. We can look at phthalates, all sorts of organophosphates. 24D is a major herbicide. I still see people at Lowe’s and Home Depot in the Garden Isle buying grass seed. That’s called weed and feed, weed and feed is a grass seed mixed with three different types of herbicides. It’s 24D, I believe it’s dicamba and glyphosate. Wait, I could have mixed one of those up, but either way, it’s three different chemicals, very toxic substances mixed with grass seed, and that’s like people just buy it and they don’t think anything of the term weed and feed. That means you’re going to be killing all the good stuff in your soil and poisoning yourself at the same time. It’s just not smart. So this mitochondrial thing. My point was, this is not rare, like when you show that image and people see that like. Oh no, that’s not happening to me. It’s like it happens every day, all day. I had mitochondrial damage, my latest test shows our mitochondria are much, much better, but I had significant mitochondrial damage from my mold exposure.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very interesting, I want to highlight one thing here so you can see creatine does primarily exist here in the cytosol, right? So if we zoom out, right cytosol is outside of the mitochondria, right? Right glucose, pyruvate here, so just so you guys can highlight here, creatine does go from the cytosol and it can go into the mitochondria. So, we did talk about creatine. It does primarily happen more in the cytosol outside the mitochondria, and it can go in via this. Mi-CRT kind of transport. Compound, so yeah, so creatine is a compound that we talked about that goes outside but can also go inside the mitochondria. To yeah Doctor Neil Nathan.

Evan Brand: That’s awesome! Doctor Neil Nathan did a huge thing for 155-page slide show that people can look up just called the Cell Danger Response. It’s very complex stuff. There’s going to be maybe a few geeky on that. People want to dive into that, but for your average person there’s not much takeaways built into that. But if you want to look into more of like the biochemistry side of it, then then you could look at it. But I think the big summary is it’s all. It’s all the Chemicals, and this is a relatively new problem I mean we face now over 80,000 chemicals are in the environment. Depending on what number you read, there’s only a small amount of those that are even tested. You’ll see stuff in Europe like oh Europe has banned these chemicals and makeup and personal care products, but the US was very far behind. And if you look at the environmental working group, they have a water testing report. You can look at and you can plug in your zip code. I mean just the amount of trihalomethanes’s pesticide herbicide residue pharmaceutical drugs that are in the municipal tap supply in your city are massive and you’re getting hit with this all the time. If you go to a restaurant and you eat rice, what do you think they make that rice with? They make it with tap water so you’re getting exposed to it that way too, which is why if I go out to eat, I don’t really do rice that often anyway. But if I do it, It’s going to be at home with good, clean filtered water.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I like it. Anything else you want to say on that, so obviously get the toxin exposure. Super important hydration obviously really important to anything else you want to say on that?

Evan Brand: Yeah, you hit you hit the the Co Q10. You mentioned some of the markers we’re going to look at on the oak test, so we will use those. We have a formula. I believe you’ve got 1/2 mines called my to boost. It’s essentially like a multi for the mitochondria with all the Co Q10, ribose, carnitine B vitamins. So, when we see mitochondrial dysfunction, we can supplement that and we tell people this is a band-aid for your mitochondria. This is not some of it is the root cause, right? If you just are simply low and depleted in Co Q10, one could argue supplementing Co Q 10 is the root cause, but in reality it was usually. Oh here we go. Let me see if I can share this slide with you. Mainly it was the the toxins that led to this so let. Me share my screen really quick.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And there is going to be because we do make Co Q10 on our own via the mevalonic acid pathway. And of course, as you get older, just like stomach acid, you’re gonna make less of it and so there there could just be a depletion based on age as well.

Evan Brand: Does that show up at all on your side? The video is that screen share show.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Try again.

There’s like a little bell there. Let me let me pop it up again. How about that, yes? Oh yeah, let me let.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Me highlight it, go ahead.

Evan Brand: Yeah, there we go. So, this is this is kind of what I was alluding to, and many many other people may have different ways to look at this, but this is from Neil Nathan. He had a great paper on this cell danger response and it just shows at the top here. Basically, everything I already mentioned like a flame. Heavy metals, pesticides, infection, so that would include viral issues as well. Mass cells, NK killer cells, cytokines, the microbiome. All these issues here are what really breaks this role. You know, the one of these is the final straw that breaks the camel’s back and then you end up in this what’s called the cell danger response phase. And then that’s where you get the issues with the mitochondria down regular. So there’s more in that. Like I said, it’s 155 pages. It’s like you got to be, you got to be, you know, have your bulletproof coffee before you look through that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  No, that makes a lot of sense, so your kind of really focusing on the toxicity and how that negatively impacts it. I want to just kind of tie in the dietary component. Why is food so important to enhancing the mitochondria? Let me let me break that down for a second here. This is important. OK, so this is really important. We talked about like Kreb cycle right? And so like this is our zoom out right? What’s happening here? We have glycolysis, Krebs cycle, electron transport chain outside of the mitochondria with the cytosol inside. Now check this out. This is a good one. This is from textbook of functional medicine, so. We have fats, carbs and proteins. These are our primary nutrients where everything comes from right. Fast could be coconut oil, grass fed butter could be fats from. Uhm, grass fed meat right? Our carbs can be vegetables, fruit, starch and our proteins could be protein powder or it could be animal protein, right? All of these essentially shuttled downstream. Fats get carried into the mitochondria via carnitine, so if you go into any biochemistry textbook, it’s called the carnitine. Shuttle right. Every medical doctor, doctorate level person would studied this at a graduate level. I studied as well now in the textbook of I think that guidance Physiology, but there’s another textbook of biochemistry that’s common at the graduate level. You know what the rate limiting amino acids to make carnitine are. It’s methionine and lysine and so really important.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Guess what some of the rate limiting amino acids are in a vegetarian diet.

Evan Brand:  Oh yeah, well.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Medallion Leisinger actually very deficient in vegetarian diets, and so this whole process of a carnitine shuttle here that helps bring carnitine converts it into acetyl Co A. So then the actual it can get inside the mitochondria. And run through the citric acid cycle again. That’s the same thing as Krebs Cycle. They have multiple names. In medicine for the same thing, it’s just meant to confuse people. So citric acid cycle or the Krebs cycle.  This is how we get fat inside the mitochondria is via carnitine. So very important, right so if we zoom out. Here, we have energy out here, fat. We get it inside via the carnitine shuttle. Super important there and then you see carbs. Right glucose, other sugars. We go pyruvate to lactate and we need guess what B vitamin? So if we’re putting in lots and lots of refined processed sugar and we’re insulin resistant, we can actually deplete B vitamins. And we can actually deplete a lot of magnesium and other nutrients downstream. So, this is really important. Too much carbs, too much sugar, especially if you’re insulin resistance and you’re putting on weight due to too much carbs. That’s going to be a problem, and you’re going to deplete nutrients now. Then we have proteins, amino acids. These all get converted downstream. We also need B itamin to support that now the difference is if you’re eating high quality protein. Guess what? You’re getting good quality B vitamins in that. Protein if you’re doing a lot of refined processed sugar, guess what? You’re not getting vitamins and nutrients with it. So carbohydrates, it’s possible to eat a lot of empty carbs that are actually going to deplete your nutrient levels. Protein not as much if it’s grass fed and organic right now, really, you’re taking all these nutrients, fats, carbs and proteins. You’re converting them into acetyl Co A. OK, you’re converting it to acetyl Co A and again we spit off beta-hydroxybutyrate what’s that? That’s a ketone now this is important. If we keep our carbs in check we can use ketones for fuel, so this is a really important fuel source or people that are going to be lower carb because we’re going to be more keto adapted. We’re going to be able to use that and then you can see here that acetyl Co A. Runs around the Krebs cycle. Twice we go 2 turns. Guess what, we need cysteine amino acid iron really important. So if you’re a female you have heavy bleeding your estrogen dominant you heavy bleeding that’s in effect energy magnesium manganese B vitamins lipoic acid magnesium B vitamins B vitamins tyrosine phenylalanine aspartate, glycine, histidine, arginine, proline. Glycine, valine methionine, right? These are all amino acids over here. So, we need amino acids to run these systems. We need B vitamins. We need magnesium and then of course, once we pump these things around, here’s our NADH and then our FADH should be there somewhere as well. So here NADH, it may not. They may just be oversimplifying it not showing it. But we have NADH here. We should have an FADH2 coming in. This all goes right into. Guess what? This is the electron transport chain and base. Yeah, fatty acid oxidation right there, right? This is now now hydroxymethyl Glutarate. This is Co Q10. This is where Co Q10 comes in and this is where it runs through the electron transport chain and burning fat for fuel and we generate our 36 to 38 ATP from all these three sources 1-2 and three and so that’s what’s happening in your mitochondria. So just to kind of highlight macro nutrients, fats, protein, carbs, very important two, don’t junk it up with all the toxins that you mentioned. And then of course, making sure we. Can breakdown protein. Make sure we’re getting enough iron making. Sure, we’re not. Anemic right? All of those things kind of flow into allowing all these pathways to to work optimally.

Evan Brand: That’s amazing, I love the breakdown to that. The visual super helpful. So just to clarify a little bit. So for women out there, you’re saying that if having heavy ministration, they have low iron. It’s not just the the low iron that we assume is creating like a low oxygenation, you’re you’re showing here. The low iron is literally creating a mitochondrial deficit.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Correct. You’re not getting the oxygen in right? If we go back to here, right? Mitochondria, what do we need to get into the mitochondria? Oxygen, what’s one of the big carrying capacities for oxygen in the body? Hemoglobin and then iron affects hemoglobin in red blood cells, right? Hemoglobin is part of the red blood cell carrying capacity and we need the iron to really keep the hemoglobin levels up so we can carry enough oxygen.

Evan Brand: Wow, so there’s why you’re tired.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Could be. Yet, one and then of course all of the other nutrients play a role. Not enough of the amino acids. The only issue with this graph, any biochemists that are looking on? I think the only thing that’s missing is really the FADH2, so it should. So, all these things, they’re just reducing compounds. Really, the whole goal of this Kreb cycle to run is just grabbing hydrogens. And then once we grab these hydrogens, Uhm, these things get cleaved off, and then it generates ATP. What’s happening there? And all these things like hydroxymethyl iterate. These are right. These are all driven through Co, Q10, right? We need Co Q10 to make that happen.

Evan Brand: Now for people like supplementing ketones, if you go back up to the top there, you can basically kind of inject your own spark plug into the cycle, I guess right? If you’re taking exogenous ketones, what is that doing in relationship to this whole cycle?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s giving you more beta hydroxybutyrate. The problem is your body is going to primarily want to use that when insulin levels are lower, so you have to keep your insulin levels and check. If not, you’re not setting your Physiology up to want to burn that. If you’re probably, gonna pee it out more like more than likely versus burn it. Cause typically, your body has an enzyme called hormone sensitive light pace where it wants to break down fat and convert more of these ketones. Hormone-sensitive light base is inverse with insulin. So hire your hormone-sensitive light pace is you need lower insulin to make that happen.

Evan Brand: So the lady who eats the donut and then goes to the store and buys her exogenous ketones, she’s wasting her.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Probably not as good. There may be some mild benefits that you get cognitively just ’cause your brain has some additional fuel to run on. If people brains are insulin resistant, they may have a lot of sugar from that doughnut, but the cells in their brain maybe so numb. To it that they may not be able to access it so some ketones could be helpful, but in the end, you want to fix the insulin resistance if you’re going to do it. Try doing both. Don’t just do the ketones. Try to do both that you can.

Evan Brand: And you can make your own ketones too. For free.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, yeah, that’s how you’re doing that you keep in your insulin in check. And you’re going to start. Making your own. 100%.

Evan Brand: Yeah, cool.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Cool, that was awesome. Very cool guys. I hope you guys enjoyed today’s podcast. We’re trying to be a little bit more visual; you know. Go into some hard hard science Y stuff, but you know just kind of zoom out. Like what’s the take home right? The take home is don’t put junkie toxins and that screw up your mitochondria right? Antibiotics, I mean antibiotics? You know if if you have an acute infection that’s not resolving, you know you gotta do what you gotta do, right? You have an acute pneumonia. You gotta do what you gotta do. Talk to your doctor about it. Just don’t go to antibiotics all the time as your first line defense. Try to do some. More natural things to fix it #2 you know, try to be aware of mold in your environment. Make sure you’re not. Getting exposed to pesticides. Chemicals heavy metals. Make sure you’re doing your best to hydrate right. We need water to make this whole thing work too. I would say after that make sure you have your macronutrient style, then good quality protein fats and carbohydrates. Organic sources dial in your carbs so you’re not insulin resistant and make sure your inflammation is good. Inflammation helps with oxygenation and blood flow. Then after that we can look at using supplemental nutrients in my line and Evans line we have mito supports products mine is mito synergy. Evans is my toe. Boots will put links down below. Those products have a lot of these nutrients. It’s going to have the ribose to creatine the carnitine, the B vitamin. Since it’s going to have the Co Q10, it’s going to have actually Kreb cycle intermediary compounds like fumarate malate, succinate. All those different nutrients or run those pathways better. Of course, that all sits on top of a solid diet. Don’t take supplements if you’re going to eat crap, eat really great and then say OK now I’m going to work on enhancing it. And again, we can run testing on organic. Message to look at some of these intermediary nutrients, like citrate to connotate succinate bloomer, a mallet we can actually test them, which is pretty cool.

Evan Brand: Yeah, the testing is the best part because you you know if you actually need it. I can tell you the average person has mitochondrial problem, so in general, could you just take this? I kind of call it a multi for the mitochondria. Could you just take that test? You know like a guess and check you could, but we like to see the data and obviously my biggest thing is looking for mold colonization. Candida overgrowth clostridia. Some of these gut infections and how that affects your brain chemistry too. So when you do the oh, you really are getting the best bang for your buck in terms of testing. Like if you could only do one test out there, I think the oh it would. Probably be the number one most.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Important 110%. Anything else you want to say?

Evan Brand: If people need help, they can reach out to you worldwide or me worldwide. Doctor J at justinhealthcom me Evan at and we would love to chat with you about your symptoms, your goals and we’ll tell you for your good fit for care, so please feel free to reach out. Look forward to helping you.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Foot and get adjusted. Help calm here and then you guys have any questions, comments or concerns. Put him down below. Let us know. Kind of what you’re doing. What’s working that really helps us out as well. Very cool. Alright guys, well you guys have a phenomenal day here and we’ll. Be in touch. Take care of y’all.

Evan Brand: Sounds good.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Alright Bye bye.


Audio Podcast:

Recommended products:

Mito Synergy

Mito Boost

Deluxe Mold Test Kit

GPL Mycotox

Genova Organix Comprehensive Profile

Genova NutrEval FMV


Mitochondrial Dysfunction & Other Causes of Chronic Fatigue- Mold & Candida Contribute | Podcast #287

Welcome to another episode of Beyond Wellness Podcast! For this episode, Dr. J and Evan Brand talk about chronic fatigue, which is a disorder characterized by extreme tiredness that doesn’t go away with rest. Because sometimes, chronic fatigue can also be associated with mold issues, Candida and etc. Check this podcast out. Dr. Justin Marchegiani

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

In this episode, we cover:

1:06     Mitochondria

8:26    Toxins that damage Mitochondria

14:40   Mold Issues

22:22   How Mold and Candida affect Mitochondria

31:05   Nutrients and Vitamins

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Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And we are live. It’s Dr. J here in the house with Evan brand. Today we’re going to be chatting about chronic fatigue, mold issues and other different causes that could drive chronic fatigue. Evan, how are we doing today? 

Evan Brand: I’m doing really well. We’ve got just a couple of papers on this. And we don’t really more than that, because we have so much experience now ever since I had my issues. And you and I started digging into this. It’s like you and I jumped into the mold whirlwind over the past few years together. And it’s been really fun learning and educating people simultaneously. We’ve implemented stuff in our houses that have been game changers for us. We’ve implemented stuff clinically, that have been game changers for others, but I believe this is one of the biggest triggers of chronic fatigue is mycotoxins and I experienced it personally and so I can tell you my own issue, I was exhausted and I’m still recovering from that and your exercise intolerance goes down and a lot of that has to do with the mitochondrial damage to happen. So could you just give us maybe like mitochondria 101 What like, how do they help people? Why are they so important? What happens when they get damaged and all that? 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, so your mitochondria, they exist inside of yourself, okay? And it’s going to generate ATP. And part of you know, so you have glycolysis, right? That’s going to be outside the cell where you’re kind of taking glucose generating energy. And then you have the Krebs cycle where you’re spitting out different amounts of hydrogen and ATP. And those hydrogens then now go into so you have these things called reducing agents, called FADHNAD and they gather up hydrogens, okay? And then these hydrogens, right, they enter the electron transport chain, they generate more ATP. So you have glycolysis to the Krebs cycle, right, or citric acid cycle, same thing. And then we have from there into the electron transport chain. And this is where we start to enter the mitochondria. And we need things like carnitine to help shuttle fat into the mitochondria. We need B1 B2 to help with fatty acid oxidation in the mitochondria, it’s part of how the mitochondria burns fuel to run the Krebs cycle and to get the electron transport chain set up we need B vitamins, we need magnesium we need carnitine like I already mentioned before, we need creatine we can use things like ribose we can use things like co q 10. These are all really really important nutrients that fuel these different metabolic pathways obviously, intermediary nutrients like Fumarate and malate and succinate. And then different amino acids are involved with the electron transport chain and or the citric acid cycle, Krebs cycle the leading up to it. So all of these pathways, they roll and they really help generate energy and generate ATP, which is that energetic fuel source. 

Evan Brand: And there’s a really good picture of the citric acid cycle some of the stuff that that you and I’ve learned from some of our books and study so we may be able to put that up in the shownotes to where people just want to download it look at it, I think it’s kind of cool because you could look at it and you could just quickly learn all the different nutrients that fuel each part of the cycle. So then I don’t want to say you could spot treat but for lack of a better word, you could kind of spot treat and go, Oh, magnesium, boom, I might be missing that be six. Oh, I might be missing that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% Yep. 100%. I’m gonna try to pull up a good picture for everyone to see here. So they can kind of wrap their head around it. A picture’s worth 1000 words. So if you guys can kind of understand the concept. I think that makes it a lot easier. I’ll pull that up here in a minute. Okay. All right, cool. Anything else you wanted to highlight on that before we dive in a little bit more? 

Evan Brand: Well, you mentioned a bunch of different nutrients. And so I think the most important part to pay attention to is that today we’re focusing kind of zoomed in. But you mentioned a lot of stuff that people could be deficient in for other reasons that we might not cover today. So parasite infections, bacterial overgrowth, any kind of dysbiosis. That’s not allowing the gut bacteria to produce some of these nutrients that may be involved. But that’s not the highlight of the show today. Today we’re focusing on other triggers and other causes. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 110%. Exactly. Very good. So of course, the first thing is we have things that enter the mitochondria. And that major nutrient, that major compound that’s going to enter that mitochondria is going to be acetyl co a, and acetyl. co a is made from fats, carbs and proteins. So the first thing I always tell people is we have to make sure we can digest and break down our fats, carbs and proteins. And we have to make sure we have good proteins, good fats, primarily carbohydrates. You know, of course, if you’re more active, you know, you can always do more safe starches and make sure you’re not doing too many grains and an inflammatory refined sugar. But we need good fats, we need good proteins because that performs and creates a really good building block for that acetyl. co a, and we need that for really, really, really good mitochondrial production. 

Evan Brand: Yep. Let’s dive into this study. This is really cool. One of my favorites, this guy, Dr. Brewer-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: If you don’t mind, I want to just hit one more thing. Just I want to set the table a little bit more for the listeners. Okay, let me just do this here real quick. All right. This is a really, really good picture. Can you see that on my screen yet?

Evan Brand: Yep, there it is. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, good. This gives you a pretty good idea. So the mitochondria is kind of the powerhouse of the cell. All right. And so when you look at energy, we first have the cytosol that’s outside of the cell. This is glucose. Glucose comes in glycolysis means breaking down glucose. glyco means glucose. And then license means breaking down. So we generate a little bit of energy here, ATP from glycolysis. Okay, then that then that little bit of energy then moves into the mitochondria. So this is the mitochondria here right now. So we have acetylcholine, acetylcholine then starts going into the Krebs cycle, that Krebs cycles in a turn twice and it’s typically forget exactly, I think it’s two to three NADH or going to be spit out for one fa, d h2. And this is going to turn around twice. And then these different electrons, these hydrogens that are collected from the Krebs cycle, the NADH and the FA, d h 22 to 3, NADH, one fA d h two going to enter the electron transport chain, and then more ATP is then created. So I want to say it’s like 36 to 39 ATP are created from glucose to Krebs cycle to electron transport chain, and I want to say it’s two or three for glucose. Like Allah says two or three for the Krebs cycle, maybe six for the Krebs cycle. And the electron transport chain is the majority where it happens. I want to say 33 or so I want to say it’s about 36 to 39 total ATP, per this whole thing and this is a mitochondria right here. So all most of this stuff happens in the mitochondria and then some of it happens outside in the cytosol. 

Evan Brand: Yeah, that’s what I was going to ask you. So if someone has major mitochondrial issues according to this picture, it looks like you would still be able to generate some, but it’s going to be a minimal amount of ATP created from glycolysis. Is that true? 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Correct and then glycolysis is going to be dirty fuel right? So you’re going to get a lot more oxidative stress because of the advanced glycation end products that occur when you start making a lot of sugar right? A lot of sugar you coat your proteins right this increases oxidation oxidation and and then require more electrons to stabilize because when you when you oxidize something, right, think of cutting open an avocado, and it browns right or think about cutting open an apple and it browns, you’re losing electrons. That’s what’s happening there. Now you can easily go take a nice lemon or lime and squeeze the vitamin C from that on there, and that will prevent it from oxidizing. So the difference in your body is going to require a lot more antioxidant reserves. If you start creating a lot of oxidative stress, so glucose always burns dirty, okay, and there’s a really good book by Kristofferson called ‘Tripping Over the Truth’. And it’s a book all about mitochondria in glucose and cancer. So there’s a lot of data on this stuff already. So it’s really important to know that’s why we want to be more fat burners, good proteins and you can get carbs, you know, according to your metabolic needs. If you’re more active and, and you’re healthy, healthier and more fit and more lean and more active, then you can definitely add in some good high quality safe starches, but you really want to dial that in according to your metabolic needs. It’s not a set kind of size for everyone. 

Evan Brand: Very cool. Thanks for the picture. That’s awesome to see. So where do the toxins come into the picture? Well, the toxins are going to damage the mitochondria. So as you showed here, you can make some energy outside of the mitochondria. So you can still quote get by, but you may be exhausted if that Krebs cycle isn’t working properly due to potentially some of those nutrient deficiencies you covered that could be fueling the Krebs cycle. Maybe you’ve got infections or malabsorption issues going on. But we know that mold toxin damages the mitochondria law as well and actually sent you another paper in the notes if you wanted to look at it. It’s called mycotoxin its impact on gut health and microbiota. And this is pretty cool, because the end of this paper discusses that if you have good intestinal flora, they say here, it’s now well established that a healthy gut microbiota is largely responsible for the overall health of the host findings revealed that gut microbiota is capable of eliminating mycotoxin from the host naturally, provided that the host is healthy with a balance of good gut bugs. So long story short, and there’s a cool picture on that paper to just I don’t know if you can pull it up, but it’s called frontiers, cellular infection, microbiology, it’s a really cool picture of the gut and it just shows on the right that you’ve got all these different infections, like helicobacter, you’ve got E. coli, you’ve got reduction of beneficial bacteria, and therefore, the mycotoxins are not going to get treated as they should. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, I see that right here. Yep. So on that you see a whole lot bunch of decrease in good beneficial bacteria. I can share it right real quick here with y’all. You can see a decrease in a lot of your beneficial floor right here, man, you don’t see an increase in a lot of the pathogenic floor right here. And then of course, you have lipid polysaccharides. These are going to be your endotoxin that are the outer coating of the bad Gram negative bacteria. And then of course, you have more than mycotoxins. And of course, that’s going to stress out the microbiome stress out the immune system is going to increase gut permeability. The more gut more your gut is permeable, aka leaky gut, the more immune stress you’re going to have, because now your immune system is interacting with compounds and toxins that normally wouldn’t Is that correct? 

Evan Brand: Yep, that makes perfect sense. And this makes sense of why probiotics can be beneficial right out of the gate. A lot of people discuss and you and I discussed binders and Bluetooth ion and fixing the environment and all of that, but I mean, this shows here that bumping up your good bacteria is going to be a critical component to so I personally implemented a 50 to 100 billion have some multi stream probiotics and I have felt better. Is that the magic here? No, I’m doing a lot of things, but it has been pretty beneficial.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% Yep, pull up that pull up that Brewer paper. Now I think that’s going to be the next thing we should talk about. So let’s go over that. 

Evan Brand: This is crazy. This is crazy. So if you scroll down, long story short, in clinic, Brewer and some of his associates in this in this paper, they were testing using urine testing, which is what Justin and I run in clinic as well. We do a urine mycotoxin screen. And right here on the first page. It’s crazy says right here that urine specimens showed that 93% of his chronic fatigue patients these are known chronic fatigue sufferers. 93% of those were positive for at least one mycotoxin

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Correct. So if you look here, right, here’s 112 patients 93% had at least one mycotoxin, again you have different mycotoxins, you have the aflatoxin- This is common like peanut stuff okra toxin and then you have the tri coat the scenes which is common in the in the black mold the Stacie buttress black mold, okay, so these different toxins we can actually test and now it’s important. Some people may test these things and they don’t do a really good glute. If I don’t push people that have really poor to toxification they may not push these things out. So you really want to make sure a couple of days ahead of time you do a good Bluetooth ion push and and even that you may just want to even look at the home too and do a really good play test on your home. Again, we use immunologic labs, we’ll put some links down below if you guys want to procure those tests, but some people they may have a hard time pushing it out. So yeah, so number one is I always recommend do a glutathione push. If you feel achy or really bad or brain foggy or tired or fatigued that could be a good time. Also, if you have a lot of mold in the home, especially molds that have these mycotoxins The nice thing about the amino Linux. It’ll tell you if these mycotoxins are produced by the species of mold they find so they see Aspergillus, or different mold that can be produced during water damage, then usually there’s an oak, there’s usually going to be a mycotoxin attached to it. There are some molds that are natural, like in soil and just plant degradation outside. Those are different some more from pet dander and those kind of things. So you’re able to get a window into all those things, as well. 

Evan Brand: Yeah, and I just want to say one comment about the push. When I first did my original mycotoxin urine screen, I did do Bluetooth ion for maybe three days and I guess that wasn’t enough because my Michael phenolic acid, which is a mycotoxin that comes from Penicillium, which I was exposed to my level was a 12, which was in the red range, but it was just barely. And then when I retested six months later after trying really hard and doing sauna therapy, which is another way you could actually do provocation. If someone doesn’t have glue defi on, you could do a sauna session, then collect urine, that could also help but six months later, my levels went from a 12 to a 1700 my levels were off the chart, even though I’d been trying for six months to get it out, and I did feel better. Some may look at that. And I’ve had some clients, you know, call me and they’re like, I’m crying. I’m freaking out, my levels went up what’s going on, and we explain most of the time, that doesn’t mean new exposures happen. That just means you’re getting better at detoxification, and you’re pushing more out. And that’s what happened to me. So my levels were really, really low. Six months later, they were really, really high. And then another six, eight months later, they were low again, indicating that I did actually detox it and push it out.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. Now part of the reason why we were able to stick with it is because we knew that you had high levels of mold in your old home, correct? 

Evan Brand: Well, so it was a crawlspace exposure. Looking back at the plates. The house was minimally bad honestly, what I think happened based on talking to Scott force grant, he his theory on it is that my tick bites that I got sort of set the mold in motion because I had the most exposure when I was a kid hanging out in my grandmother’s house. Were her babies basement flooded many times. And I remember going down there and smelling musty basement. So I guarantee you, I’ve had mold toxin, you know, just because I’m genetically unable to detox it like a lot of people are, I probably had it since I was a very, very young child. But his theory was that the tick bites basically weaken the immune system enough to allow the mycotoxins to really take me down. Whereas before, I may have had some symptoms, but it wasn’t as it wasn’t as brutal. So it was the combination of tick bites, and then some more recent mold exposure, that kind of retriggered things. Yeah, and I think it was just the straw that broke the camel’s back. I think it was a combination because I didn’t really get exposed to that much upon looking back at my plates and comparing those to some of my clients. I’m like, you know what, this wasn’t that bad. I mean, we had a though, I remember them being more high. So everything in the house was in single digits. It was just the crawlspace that was in double digits. And then once we did the fog treatment, everything was back to normal but what really screwed me is when we modified the the hva system. And we were trying to circulate the air in the crawlspace. Better. So the ductwork was changed to make a complete loop system from the crawlspace, sucking that air pumping that air into the house, and then the house pumping back in. So it was a continuous loop. And that’s what really screwed me because that setup wasn’t there before. And that’s what really cranked the levels up. And that’s where, even after we did an initial treatment, the levels went way up. Because now we were bringing in bad air into the breathable air. And so once we reverse that correctly, so if I remember correctly, is you had this crawlspace right, there was mold in the crawlspace. That was really high. The rest of the house was okay, but there was a lot of whole mold in the crawlspace they fixed the ventilation part of the home before they treated the crawlspace. Is that correct? Yeah. So we Yeah, we treated the home silly. I mean, absolutely. I can’t believe that happened. I’m just like, How the heck did these guys screw that up? I know, I know. So So then we treated it again though. And then the reverse the duck system that we had put in we reversed all of that. And then treated it again. And then it was fine. So technically, I could have stayed because the plates were incredible after that, but I needed a bigger house. Anyway, we had another kid come in. So it was a good excuse for me to just say, hey, let’s just go ahead and leave. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right but that was a big trigger for you. And then I think even in the new home that was still a little bit more mold that came back on that home to right near the retreat that address. 

Evan Brand: Yeah, yeah, we treated this house as well. We had some high colonies near the kitchen, which is potentially from the kitchen empties out into a screen room. So if those screen doors were always open, bringing bringing in outside air outdoor molds over time can accumulate in the house and make mycotoxins so yeah, we’ve we’ve treated it and now we just do some of the maintenance solution and we do some of the candles and such and now we’ve got it under control. So and then-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Also in general, you have the dehumidifier put in so then the humidity is now a lot less in the home. So that helps so there’s less breeding ground for it. And then you also just have air filtration throughout the home. So even if things were to come in your filters would naturally grab it anyway. 

Evan Brand: Yeah, I would assume my house is probably one of the few in Kentucky that doesn’t have mold in it because even with our whole house dehumidifiers, I mean, it’s pouring rain as we speak right now the ground rarely dries out because we have so much rain here lately. And even with the whole house dehumidifiers running, we’re barely keeping the house at 50% 45 to 50% humidity if you didn’t have those Running Man, who knows outside right now is like 86% humidity. And you and I’ve discussed this many times on the podcast, but you know, if you have humidity levels above 50% continuously in your home, you don’t have to have a water event. You don’t have to have a dishwasher overflow or a toilet leaking. Just the high moisture from the humidity alone can create mold, and that’s what happens in many homes that you and I’ve tested. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, it really happens in areas where the temperature is just a little bit low. So you don’t have the AC because the AC will act with a natural dehumidifier but it’s temperature driven where humidifier is humidity percent driven. So I had a little bit of so if you have a you know 65 or 70, and it’s not quite triggering the AC, that’s where you really get screwed, but it’s not cold enough, not hot enough to trigger an AC but it’s also very humid 6065 70 or it’s just a basement area where basements are really cool but humid, that’s where you really need it because then if you get a humid basement, that’s cool. Well guess what it’s going to that ventually those molds are going to go upstairs to the rest of the home even if the rest of the home is is you know nice in and low humidity because of the air conditioner. So having a dehumidifier is important. I had a little bit of water issues over the weekend I was changing my water filter. And there was like three vowels you have to turn off. I only turned off two out of the three so it leaked a bit. Nothing bad I you know, got three or four towels cleaned it up. But what I did is I went in crank that dehumidifier down to 40%. And within two, three hours, any residual water that was hanging out was all evaporated, gone. But if you had 60% humidity in that basement, that water would just sit there for days on end. Once that water sits for 48 hours. It’s gonna start raining mold toxins. 

Evan Brand: Yeah, I’m glad you got the dehumidifier too. That’s, that’s pretty much essential for where we live with higher humidity. So, back to the chronic fatigue thing. So let’s keep going back on this paper because this is what I had.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: If you want you can go share your screen here, Evan, you can share your screen if you like. Evan, are you there? Can you hear me? I lost that and guy, so I’ll wait for him to kind of come back on here. I’ll just keep on riffing. While we are waiting for him. I’m just gonna give him a message here.

All right, awesome. So just chatting with Evan here on the on the side here. He’ll be back on the show in just a minute. Let me keep rolling with you guys. So in general, we have the mitochondria we have different mold toxins that can affect and poison the mitochondria. One of the things that we get with fungus or mold is we get things called oxalates. And oxalates can enter the mitochondria enter the Krebs cycle, and make it harder for that Krebs cycle to work and harder to generate energy. So of course, that’s going to be a big component to stressing out the mitochondria. So when we look at molds coming into the end environment, whether it’s mold from outdoors, whether it’s molds or fungal because it kind of have molds, right, and then you have different things like funguses in your gut like Candida, they kind of have a similar mechanism where they’re going to affect and poison the mitochondria. and different things like that can create oxalate and they can really make it harder for the mitochondria to generate ATP. 

I’m going to show a couple of articles here I got an article on mold and how it can affect or Candida and how it can affect the mitochondria. I’m gonna pull this up with you guys here right now so you guys can see it. So this is interesting right here, you guys can see my screen chronic intestinal candidiasis as a possible ecological factor in chronic fatigue syndrome. We talked about Candida syndrome, also known as Candida related complex, putatively caused by an overgrowth of Candida, so that’s an overgrowth, not the Candida is not ever going to be there. It should be there and maybe at very low levels, it’s the significant overgrowth. That’s the problem.

And essentially in response of large number of patient with chronic fatigue to an oral antifungal agent, there’s evidence that Candida infection of the mucous membranes depress our T cells and natural killer cells. Similar abnormalities of the immune function are found in chronic fatigue. So it’s altering our immune function. So our body’s ability to deal with an immune response and deal with infections and deal with stress is going to be impaired big time. This is this is really, really, really important to kind of highlight and then it says, um, and it’s important in preventing reactions like epstein barr cytomegalovirus, herpes virus, there are other viral infections that could play a role with chronic fatigue. Right? And again, with chronic fatigue, the question is what comes first? Is it the chicken or the egg? In other words, when you have a an infection, is it the infection is cause is the underlying cause or did you have a weakened immune system leading up to the infection that caused the problem to begin with. 

That’s really what the underlying issue is, did you get the infection first? Or did the infection come as a result of the weakened immune system, and I’m not sure if it matters too much, we always try to line up what the what the likely causes. But we know here things like Candida and gut issues can affect the T cell and the natural killer cell, this is going to be our th one branch of the immune system. So our th one or those kind of special forces, they get in there and really do a lot of killing ahead of time. And they kind of the first line defense of the immune response. That’s like kind of really, really, really important to highlight and then it talks about here. And so then when you have a compromised immune system, other parasites other viral issues may be an issue then mold may be more of a problem. So now when you get exposed to mold, you may have been able to whip through it no problem you adapted to a bun now it’s like dang I think really knocked on your butt. So then said yes. The immune dysfunction found in the sorter has been considered the primary underlying cause. So this imbalance of cytotoxic T cell and T helper cells and natural killer cells is the underlying cause. It proposed that the chronic intestinal combat is maybe an agent, which leads to the immune depression in many chronic fatigue patients, and therefore, it could be a causal factor in chronic fatigue. So a lot of times we have the guts stuff leads the way. Okay, the guts stuff leads the way and then everything else happens after that, that makes sense. All right, excellent. Excellent. Very good.

I’m going to just take a pause here for one second. We lost Evan here, so I’m gonna see if I can get him back on the show as we chat. All right, let’s keep on rolling. So we talked about some of the guts stuff now you can see some of these things here with Candida and mold. We can see the same thing with CBOE as well. All right, if we look at small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, SIBO and chronic fatigue, guess what we’re gonna see similar things and why? Why is it? Well, it’s because of the fact that the God is where 80% of the immune system lives this is important. So when you look at research, research suggests the high prevalence of SIBO among chronic fatigue patients, One study found 77% of chronic fatigue. patients had SIBO why because when you start to have gut issues, the immune system starts to get revved up, right. And when the immune system gets revved up, it gets weakened or you start to create an imbalance like that th one part of the immune system starts to become depleted. And when that th one becomes depleted, that’s going to make it harder for you to go after and deal with other stressors like SIBO like Candida like mold, right. This is why the gods plays a big role is because you have this tube.

That’s technically outside of your body yet when you swallow food, it’s technically outside of your body because when it goes into the bloodstream, that’s now inside, technically, it’s outside of the body, you’re have 80% of the immune cells in the golf, the gastric associated lymphoid tissue, that’s the part of the stomach. And then we have the mall. That’s the mucus associated lymphoid tissue that’s in the in the small intestine. And if you have stressors, whether it’s bugs or bad food that stresses out the immune system, the more chronically the immune system is stressed. It creates imbalances and makes it so other things that now encounter your body like mold or Candida or viruses like epstein barr mano, right? The kissing disease. Now that’s going to create more stress and really, really, really knock on your butt. So we always have to look at what the underlying root cause of everything is. So, so we don’t lose sight of that. So we always want to understand what’s the root cause? What are associated causes and just because it’s an associative cause, you still want to make sure you fix it. Because sometimesyou’re not really sure if there’s three or four different infection 234 different bugs, does it mean that hey, each one is 25% equal, maybe, sometimes one’s a bigger one. And we also have to make sure we set the table. So if there’s food or other issues that are driving the problem, to begin, we got to make sure we fix that. What if those things have created an autoimmune issue? And now you have Hashimoto is because of the mold or because of the bug issue. Right. And now, the thyroids been attacked for a decade. Well, now what do you got to do? You can’t just ignore the thyroid and be puritanical and say, well, the root cause is Candida. 

Therefore, if I only fix the root cause, then everything else should be fixed. No, you may still have to go in there and support the thyroid because the hormone levels have now dropped, or the adrenal levels now have dropped. So you, you, you know, it’s easy to be like, well, the root causes this, everything else goes downstream, yes, but you may have to come in there and support those other pathways so you can get better and feel better faster. If not, you may be suffering for a long time. Really, really, really important points. All right, I’m going to roll with questions guys and see where you’re at with everything. So in general, with foods, big things that are going to stress this out, if you’re eating lots of refined sugar, and you’re and you’re spitting out a lot of candy to the candy doesn’t make a whole bunch of lactic acid, and that can make it and though that can easily eat a lot of your B vitamins, so the more Candida and the more bugs we have, the more you’re going to be consuming and ripping up a lot of your B vitamins. So B vitamins are very important. When you have bad bacteria, it’s gonna make it a lot harder for you to consume a lot of those good healthy B vitamins because your bugs in your gut are going to be consuming it for you. That’s like super, super important bugs in your gut are going to be consuming it. Number two is the bacteria is and it produced toxins. And this is big because these toxins now put more stress on your guts. So put more stress on your detoxification pathway. 

So when you have a lot more gut toxins, like polysaccharide or endotoxin, or the different mycotoxins may be made by Candida, and now your detoxification pathways get stressed. And now the sulfur that your body needs to run detoxification pathway have to get up regulated, you’re going to need more B vitamins like b 12, and fold a and be sick. So you’re going to need more of those nutrients as well to run those detoxification pathways. And so that can also drive fatigue as well because if you’re really like your body only has so many so much resources, so if you’re really toxic, if you’re really toxic, your body’s gonna allocate a lot of the nutrients on the B vitamins side or the sulfur side that may plug into the mitochondria. ….. ossification have less resources over here. So just just very, very, very, very important to keep that in the back of your head. Okay, awesome. Okay, very, very good.

All right, excellent. So it’s very, very important to really keep an eye on all the resources here because the more stressed your detoxification pathways gets, they’re going to pull a lot of that sulfur, they’re going to pull a lot of the B vitamins, and those are all nutrients that would plug into that mitochondrial pathway to begin with. So really, really, really, really important. You need so for people forget you need sulfur to actually make a lot of your dopamine and adrenaline. So dopamine and adrenaline. You need good sulfur. All right. And so if you if you’re chronically stressed, you’re going to be making a lot of adrenalin and eventually you’re going to be depleted because you’re not going to have that good software to take dopamine to norepinephrine, epinephrine, so you deplete sulfur because when you have dope mean that’s your feel good neurotransmitter you feel good, helps you focus. It’s a good reward center neurotransmitter, and that will go downstream, the more stressed your app is epinephrine, norepinephrine, that’s basically adrenaline or catecholamines. And these things are going to get very, very depleted, the sulfur will, will get very, very depleted, the more you’re chronically stressed, and then you’ll have less sulfur. And then the less sulfur you have, you’re going to have less building blocks for glutathione for your methylation, for all your detoxification nutrients, so it really plugs in. You want to look at everything holistically, so it all makes sense. All right, wonderful. All right, guys. Hey, phenomenal chat with you. If you guys enjoy today’s podcast talking about Candida talking about mold and mycotoxins connecting it to the mitochondria connecting it to energy. These are all very, very important components and on how and why everything you know is vitally important, why it all connects. So in general, co q 10. Very important, you know, anywhere between 100 to 500 milligrams a day. B vitamins, you know, a good high quality B Complex especially if we see on an organic acid test more forming a glutamate or more methylmalonic acid that tells us B12. And it also tells us full later benign, we may see things like xanthi urinator, kind of urinate which tell us B6 is important because B6 helps with our brain it is needed for the synthesis of neurotransmitters, right serotonin and dopamine. So if we don’t have good neurotransmitters that’s gonna really really affect our body’s ability to sleep to deal with stress mood, our adrenals right B five is a really important one pens authentic acid, we need it for our adrenals and also plugged into our mitochondria. Krebs cycle amino acids like I’ll see on these mitochondrial tests, we’ll see low sulfur like we’ll see low sulfate or low power of glutamate, or we’ll see low Pokorny, which is a sign of lower amino acids and these amino acids plug in to the Krebs cycle. 

And you can see here I’ll try to pull it up on screen how the amino acids plug in, but there’s a bunch of amino acids and the Krebs cycle. I’ll try to pull it up here. Now, why is this important? Well, because if you have poor digestion, because of mold, because of Candida, guess what’s going to happen to your body’s ability to break down protein? It’s going to drop, it’s going to significantly drop. Okay, I’m going to pull this up here so you guys can see how amino acids plug in. They plug in significantly. Okay, I got it right up here for you guys. Alright, cool. Let me just show this to you guys so you can see it. So this is what the Krebs cycle looks like. Okay, so you have remember this is the glucose here is in the site is all that’s outside of the mitochondria. Okay. All right, and then this stuff here comes in glucose phospholipids animal pyruvate pyruvate to acetylcholine. Now this starts to enter into the mitochondria, so sudo Coase now in the mitochondria, so look at these building blocks a Piru a to acetal koi look what it is people listening here we have a video version two so you guys can see my screen alanine cysteine glycine serine three Nene trip the fan right I so loosing all these things are big these are all essential amino acids that plug in to pyruvate and the seal co a and these kind of provide the building blocks to ratchet through your Krebs cycle and this thing is going to turn around twice. So you have saturate the ISO citrate and then you have alpha ketoglutarate more glutamine more prolene more histidine more origin and get plugged in. Then you have [inaudible] when you have more isoleucine more veiling right these are branched chain amino acids. Now this is part of the reason why working out with branched chain amino acids helpful refining 3d and then it goes from succinylcholine to succinate or we have tyrosine and phenyl alanine, which helps dopamine and adrenaline and then Fumarate to melee, melee to oxaloacetate, which is aspirin gene and aspartate. And then it plugs right back into we’ll see the code so you can see how that works. All right, you can see how that works very, very important amino acids. So if we have very poor, if we have very, very poor digestion, we have low hydrochloric acid, we have low enzymes, that’s an a play a really, really big role in this whole thing. So getting your enzymes and your stomach acid up really having a clean diet, really breaking down your food, and then really working with a good practitioner to look at the mold toxins or the gut stress the Candida in the gut. Right, and it’s more of an overgrowth, maybe looking at SIBO maybe looking at H. pylori or other gut infections. Looking at the environmental mold, if there is mold, how do we fix it right? What’s the root cause of that mold? Is it a muted humidity issue? Do we just need an air filter? Do we have to do a bio balance protocol in the home to get the mold level down right? So we have to look at the whole picture so we get to the root cause I hope that makes sense. 

Any other questions? Feel free I’ll chime in and try to answer them here for y’all. I think we got most stuff here that’s on point kind of already dialed in. So if you guys want to reach out to Evan, is a console link you can feel free and schedule. Also head over to my site to schedule a consult with myself if you want to dive in deeper we’ll put links down below. If you guys enjoyed this content, share it with friends and family make sure you subscribe hit that like button hit the bell so you get notifications. It’s phenomenal chatting with y’all really appreciate it. Just do me a favor try to apply some of this information so that you can make yourself healthier. It’s really important when you’re healthier. You become a better parent, a better person a better employee, a better boss, and it just it really helps the whole world get better the healthier you get the whole world gets better. Alright guys, it was phenomenal chat and you guys have a great day. Take care. Bye


Audio Podcast:

Boost Your Longevity and Mitochondria – Collagen Amino Acids with Dr. Friedlander Podcast | #256

Boosting longevity and mitochondria are some of the things that people are so interested to know because they want to know the secret in living longer, as well as the quality in their year’s energy focused cognitive function. Join Dr. Justin and Bernd Friedlander as they talk about longevity, amino acids and a lot more.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

0:59 Longevity

07:30 Important Amino Acids

21:30 Fat Burning

30:40 Exercise

33:39 Coffee


Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And we are live is Dr. Justin Marchegiani in the house with Dr. Bernd Friedlander. Dr. Bernd. It’s really exciting to have you on the show today. What’s going on?

Bernd Friedlander: Oh, I’m just excited to be with you. Like always.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, I’m really excited here too. So let’s dive in. I mean, you’re, you’ve been in this field for 40 plus years clinically. Your functional medicine, also Cairo documented in the supplement industry for a while you work with athletes, you work with the everyday population. And you have a lot of experience on a lot of different topics. So I wanted to pick your pick your brain here, one of the first topics I wanted to dive into is longevity. A lot of people are interested in improving the in the amount of years they’re going to live, but also the quality In their years energy focused cognitive function. What are some of the first steps that you see clinically that have really moved the needle in that department?

Bernd Friedlander: Well, I think a lot of it is, you know, we’re looking at environmental factors and what dictates our lifestyle is going back 65,000 years ago when we were out and outdoors, and we had no computers, no cell phones, no technology, no EMR. So I think that is another problem we’re seeing today because I think today, the youth of, you know, what we’re seeing is indoors. They’re indoors and working indoors and computers and cell phones and video games. So they’re changing the quality of their life, but also it’s affecting the brain chemistry of the brain. And, you know, depression, anxiety disorders is very high now, as you know, and I see a lot of that. And the other thing is everybody doesn’t understand what’s the right diet, you know, they all think, you know, they go on veganism they go in high protein, you know, diet, low carb diets, you know, a lot of it is activity also what do you do on a daily basis that dictates what you eat. But one thing I tell everybody in the morning as get a little sunlight in your eyes, so you start activating all those important neurotransmitters that the brain needs the mitochondria needs. And I always say have a good protein drink in the morning or a protein meal. And that means over EZA so software legs, and it’s got to be pasteurized and I use ghee butter to get my day going, and I take about 30 grams of collagen every single morning and that’s pretty much my diet and that sustains me to go through many hours throughout the day without really getting fatigue, mentally and physically and I don’t really want to eat much. So that’s sort of like what we call intermittent fasting. And oh, and that’s the other big thing is, you know, is the quality of food versus what people eat, you know, and that’s important calories in calories out. But what type of calories are we consuming today?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So that’s really interesting. So I always tell my patients, you know, especially ones that have metabolic issues, adrenal issues, or thyroid issues, 30 grams of protein in that first 30 minutes, especially if we’re having blood sugar, energy issues, those amino acids really they start the day they’re going to provide building blocks for a lot of your neurotransmitters, your stress hormones, a lot of your you know a good chunk of your hormones that are peptide based, meaning amino acid base, and I start my day with about 15 to 20 grams of my true collagen in my coffee in the morning. I do just the carry gold, better unsalted add a little bit of vanilla extract there. So that’s interesting. You have a very similar routine. Can you talk more about collagen and intermittent fasting so some would say having that collagen in the morning may throw you out of a fasting state are you technically still fasting or at least a modified protein fast with still fast with the collagen in the morning?

Bernd Friedlander: Well, here, you know I had a chance to meet Dr. And, and Marie Claire, both out of Einstein University has done a lot of work in the intermittent fasting scene. And the work I was looking at and working with was a tough itchy, you know, tough issues where we recycle the junk before it accumulates and causes DNA damage and damage. So one of the things that she discovered was if you eat, let’s say, seven o’clock at night, and then don’t eat another for 12 hours, the next day, you are creating what’s called a typology. And that’s what fasting is all about. You know, it’s creating something where the body recycles the junk and utilizes for energy, rather than accumulation and damage and that’s what happened. So, what I tell people is the first thing in the morning, you want to get that brain going, you want to get that body going, you want to keep IGF one insulin growth factors down, you want to prevent em tour pathways, which are all these two pathways. So the leading pathways to aging and disease and cancer and heart disease and diabetes. So the best way to do that is yes, fast 1214 hours from lung last meal to the next day, but have some protein and I think the best protein is something where you consume like cheese, eggs, something that you know if you like fish, but it is important that you don’t go in the morning without having a good meal because it affects the rest of the day for you and how you sleep at night. So I think collagen is important, and I think collagen taken. There was a study that was done and I was involved 2030 years ago, with notch gelatin on A study similar to this where you take 15 grams of collagen, three or four times a day, you actually repair and regenerate tissue cartilage and bone much quicker and you prevent damage from exercise. That’s the key is the damage that accumulates after exercise if we don’t consume the right foods before and after.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting I know a lot of those pathways that are being hit are the tour pathways. I want to talk about that in a minute. So having good amounts of collagen is a great start to the day and the thing I like about collagen is the amino acids are coming from typically connective tissue, we’re not getting a lot of connective tissue, we’re getting a lot of a lot more of the muscle kind of protein which is much higher and refining and with some of the college and you’re getting a lot more glycine which is a good precursor for Luda thigh own. It’s also good, good tissue and building blocks for your own connective tissue, hair, skin, nails, joints, and we’re kind of a muscle meat based society so we’re getting exposed to some different compounds too.

Bernd Friedlander: Exactly. And the other thing about, you know, collagen, it’s very a non inflammatory of bone of all the proteins on the market today, including milk and cheese and eggs and all that there is some inflammatory mechanisms there. But when you take collagen, which are devoid of these three amino acids, which lead to em tour pathways, it’s the only protein that does not have the three amino acids that cause oxidative damage.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Can you repeat those amino acids again?

Bernd Friedlander: It’s tryptophan methionine and cysteine and they’re the ones that were shown in research to have less oxidative damage-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Which is the precursor to five ACP and serotonin, melatonin cysteine, which is the glue to find precursor much higher and whey protein, and then methionine

Bernd Friedlander: methionine, yeah. Richard Miller did a lot of work in this area and so has a repeat and when I was Working in the caloric restriction diet discovered, that’s why caloric restriction works, it’s because you are eliminating these types of amino acids in your diet, you’re really cutting down quite a bit of this. And so you’re getting less of that. And therefore, you’re, you’re not causing oxidative damage or mitochondrial damage or thyroid damage, they lead to, you know, suppression of, you know, oxidation of glucose. And that’s the problem. And it’s well known that these amino acids can lead to em tour pathways, which can cause abnormal cells to grow faster, like cell cancers require the tour pathway, which are these amino acids, to allow them to replicate faster and grow.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And interesting. So essentially, what you’re saying is we want to we want to keep the tour down. So if we can keep the proteins and again, at least starting the day off this way, kind of gives you the That, that 12 to 16, maybe even 18 hours of living some of those amino is obviously just not eating is going to decrease insulin. Anytime you have food, especially carbohydrate, little bit of protein and very little fat, you’re going to start stimulating insulin, which is going to be a growth factor, it’ll increase the IGF one. So you’re saying, keep the insulin IGF one low, try to keep them methionine, cysteine and tryptophan down and we can do that by using collagen in the morning and that’s also going to be keeping the tour down Is that correct?

Bernd Friedlander: Yes. And when you also take it at night, you are suppressing these amino acids from being developed at night, which are sort of stressors. These amino acids can lead to stressing the body by increasing cortisol levels and, you know, a nitric oxide and other areas of that area where causes mitochondrial damage thyroid damage and replication of cells the immune system especially at night

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We don’t want too much because we do know there’s a lot of data on like, for instance 16, from whey protein having a really good impact on boosting gluten. And we know glutathione’s good, but also tryptophan is very helpful. I mean, you know, the work of Julia Ross talks about tryptophan and helping with serotonin and mood and sleep issues. So is it just the sheer amount of it because we know there’s some beneficial effects in the literature?

Bernd Friedlander: Yeah, but there’s also a lot of research has shown that serotonin, which is also a culprit, and when it gets released from the platelets, it goes through the blood brain barrier, it carries through the album into the blood brain barrier, actually, it causes more problems their serotonin leads to depression, anxiety disorders, and it’s also mechanism for Alzheimer’s.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We talking about the amount of because we know there’s a lot of studies and you know, a lot of clinical data on on using for instance, five HTTP and seeing lots of mood improvements. So how do you flush that out,

Bernd Friedlander: you know, It’s interesting when five HTTP came out, it was used by a lot of patients of mine. And I gave a couple lectures and some of the lectures are Silicon Valley at the anti aging conference in San Jose by the program. I asked the people in the audience, I was sort of interested in finding out about five HDB. I said, How many of you take five HTTP, and half the audience raise their hands? I said, How many of you sleep well at night, and all and none of the five HTTP people really raised their hands? They weren’t sleeping that great. They all answered by saying no, I don’t get a complete deep sleep. I don’t get a 567 hours sleep, so disrupts their sleep pattern because serotonin is also a stressor in the body. It’s not just we need serotonin, but very little actually and serotonin also suppresses thyroid function and if you have a low thyroid and a high serotonin levels then it’s a culprit to a lot of diseases especially you know Alzheimer’s and we’ve seen in studies where MS patients that we’ve seen a lot of serotonin levels go up in the brain when they from MS patients done by a number of clinical studies at UCSF and also other clinics.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So you saying with everyone or just some people that serotonin at a higher levels and to be a problem.

Bernd Friedlander: everyone it’s, it’s, it’s known to, you know, create a lot of disturbance in the proper function of the cells. It disrupts serotonin does disrupt mitochondria, NAD levels. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We just had I’ve had I’ve had a lot of beneficial effects using five ACP with BCX. with patients though, again, you know what, when I’m doing it, I mean, I’m fixing everything diet, lifestyle, gut. So I mean, I mean- 

Bernd Friedlander: I know It’s also using a lot of collagen your products so

Dr. Justin Marchegiani : and MBC to be six is really important. You can get five HTTP or a lot of these amino acids but be six is really that important cofactor to help with the, the synthesis of a lot of these things. Plus, we know serotonin has a major role also in gut parasitosis gut function is really, really important as well with serotonin.

Bernd Friedlander: Yes, no, I mean, if you use five HTTP correctly, the way you do it, most doctors don’t do it correctly, they do too high of a level and they don’t have the other things with it. And-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly, you need good other, you know, baseline amino acids. And you also have to figure out why the five HTTP is low. To begin with, I mean, I’ll test a lot of it the organic acids, so I’ll look at a lot of five hydroxyurea last day, which is a precursor to it, or it’s a metabolite of it so you can kind of get a window into it. And you have to fix the gut absorption. And a lot of people based on their stress. They have a lot of hydrochloric acid issues and they can’t really break down their protein. What’s your experience with just people Having poor protein digestion.

Bernd Friedlander: Oh, that’s very common. And you mentioned a very important thing B6 and zinc.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very important, very important too. Yep.

Bernd Friedlander: Yeah. And helping with digestion. Another thing also, if you’re low in thyroid, you’re not producing digestive enzymes, hydrochloric acid as much. And if you’re low in thyroid, your metabolism slows down anyway. And if you’re not consuming sea salt and ACL, which is a precursor to manufacturing yours, enzymes, it’s necessary. Salt is really how it all started this the precursor to all of hydrochloric acid and Pepcid and all that. And nobody really consumes a drink sea salt, pure 100% clean sea salt in water and one teaspoon in the morning and evening seems to help people with low acids.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You any my patients who are listening they know I recommend a half a teaspoon to a teaspoon of Redmond’s Real Salt or Himalayan Or Celtic salt in the morning. And in the afternoon, I think it’s really important and are drinking a really good quality like mineral water. I like to put Chico Pellegrino is also good bosses good, which has a lot of different minerals in there as well, which are super helpful for the building blocks of a lot of the hydrochloric acid. So I hear that it makes sense. Yeah. Tell me a little bit more, what’s your elevator pitch on em tour, like, we know, we want it to go down. And we know that protein dropping protein down helps drop it at least in that fasting level. But we also want to have protein. So when we eat protein, we it will spike, but it’s kind of more of having a period where we don’t, and then a period where we do so we’re kind of creating this rebound effect. Can you talk a little bit more about that?

Bernd Friedlander: You know, and tour is very essential in the early stages of life, because up to the age of 25, we need it. It helps to build muscles and helps to stimulate growth factors. So we need that. So that’s very important. After a certain age, the tour pathway works differently, it starts helping accumulate other cells to grow as well, you know, abnormal cells, cancer cells, they require this pathway in order, you know, to start stimulating their growth and their, you know, their spread is also done by m tour pathways. So, it’s when you have HIF it’s, you know, hypoxia, less, you don’t have enough oxygen and accumulating in the cell correctly, and it’s not being utilized for energy at all. But it takes a different pathway and to lactic acid. So that’s the problem we have when tour and lactic acid gets involved together, they seem to go into and stimulate more of abnormal cells and but the tour pathway is controlled by, you know, the types of proteins we accumulate in our body. Whey protein and milk protein and all these other proteins will, will lead to empty your pathway. And one of the research done 20 30 years ago was that if you balance it with a gelatinous food like collagen or gelatin, anything that’s gelatinous, it seems to negate them these factors in these proteins so it balances the protein. So when I was working with athletes, for instance, and they were consuming a lot of these amino acids that are trip the famous line 16 in the way products, but they were also having a lot of issues with kidney problems. They were having issues with cardiovascular problems, he’s a massive amounts of athletes. So you want to make sure that when you’re doing this, you balance these amino acids and the only way I was able to find that was in research was using gelatinous collagen. It seems to balance the negativity effects of the amino acids and it doesn’t stimulate em tour and I’ve seen it with hundreds of my cancer patients when I added college into their diet. They went back and had an MRI done. Some of them still continue doing PET scans, which I don’t recommend, but the MRI showed that their cancer cells stop growing and almost went into remission.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And so regarding em tour, insulin is going to drive up them tour so too much carbohydrates too much, you know, glucose and we know PET scans are basically giving yourself they’re giving you radioactive glucose and they’re seeing where it’s going because they know the cancer cells are going to take it up. So you’re saying on one side, we can decrease some of the protein. The other side we can modulate the carbohydrate in a good range. And then number two is trying to get more collagen based amino acids which aren’t going to spike the tour as much. And you also say you can still kind of be more ketogenic while taking collagen too?

Bernd Friedlander: Absolutely because, you know, as you know, ketogenic diets are basically two things high fat and high protein. And that’s how you, you know, stimulate the ketogenic factors in the body. So-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: There’d be some people that would say high fat, but then some people say more moderate protein just because they’re trying to modularize glucose, Neo Genesis and some people are talking about the fact that you can increase glucose a little bit just through glucose, Neo Genesis. So is there is there a percent protein that you like for a ketogenic template?

Bernd Friedlander: You know, I’ve always say that it’s again, the amount of energy that you expire, and the type of physical activity you do during the day. So if you’re more of a weightlifter or more of a bicyclist or somebody, you’re going to need a little more protein than somebody who’s not working in extra I feel as much but you want to make sure that you know we found that after age of 60 the requirement for protein is much greater at that age than any other. So you want to make sure when you’re over 60 you start consuming more protein and fats. And the problem with fats is you know, fats are very highly unstable and you know, unless you eat saturated fats right but there’s also a minimum amount they found that too much fats of even saturated fats can cause problems so you have to know how to control that and you got to take certain antioxidant like vitamin E to help the lipid oxidation factors of NC Yeah, yeah. So the one I found was really good as ghee butter, ghee butter seems to give you more balanced, it has a lot of antioxidants, vitamin E, beta carotene, and it can, it’s clarified so it is a different form. fat and it helps accumulate a fast metabolism in the body. And so those MCT oil, you know, using those two will help with facilitate, but you don’t want to take too much you want to be in the right ranges. So I think fats are important but don’t overdo it with too much because it can cause late on with lip it oxidation, and it doesn’t make a difference what form of pats bats because then you have free fatty acids which are signaling factors to aging anyway.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And then how to fat burning how does that affect the mitochondria? I’ve heard that you know glucose kind of as a more dirty are fuel to to kind of burn regarding oxidation and fats a little bit more of a cleaner fuel. I know there’s a book by Kristofferson called tripping over the truth, it’s about cancer, and he looks at cancer as being a mitochondrial issue. And he talks about fats essentially being one you’re not fueling the cancer as well, but you’re burning a cleaner fuel source.

Bernd Friedlander: You know, it’s interesting with cancer because that’s probably one of my more concern and interest in I had more experienced since 1980 and researching cancers anybody else because of my father passed away. It’s the Oda Warburg principle where sugar is not the problem. Here, it’s the utilization respiratory change the Krebs cycle, the mitochondria. The mitochondria does not use the electrons correctly, it doesn’t oxidize glucose correctly. So it takes fat and protein and accumulates those into energy and it goes into glycolysis. And instead of oxidation of glucose, which is the normal Krebs cycle pathway, but everything in the mitochondria and a D plus goes up. When oxidation glucose occurs. When electron donation is properly there is the byproduct the Pyruvic acid is not being converted, right and goes into lactic acid. So it’s where if you don’t supply the body, enough sugar, the body goes into a different mechanism and utilizes free fatty acids in its energy cycle. And that is the problem with cancer cells. When you accumulate too much for you, fatty acids from protein and from fats it utilizes to break it down energy, but the end component becomes lactic acid instead of co2 and co2 is a major mechanism for respiratory function to convert back to normal function again, and if we don’t have enough co2, and that’s why high altitude people live longer, and they have less diseases and mortality because they’re accumulating much more co2 in their blood. And if we can raise that co2 levels, that’s the secret and increase the oxidation of glucose, which is what Warburg says is the key component. And that’s where NAD comes into play. And that’s how it works more efficiently by using nice cinema, right? Because nice cinema is a precursor to NAD Plus, and it’s also inhibits free fatty acids. And so those aspirin, aspirin with baking soda cuna taken together inhibits free fatty acids. So now you’re converting the cells back to a normal function of respiration where the end product becomes co2 and water.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right so with our mitochondria we have glycol says which happens outside the cell and then inside the cell that’s we start burning glucose and then inside the cell, we start generating all this acetylcholine which starts pumping the Krebs cycle and then the goal of the Krebs cycles we develop or we generate these reducing compounds NADH FADH 2 and then all these hydrogens from That from the reduction that happens, enters into the electron transport chain. And then we generate more ATP during that process, spit out a whole bunch of co2 and the cycle continues. You want to add to that at all?

Bernd Friedlander: Yeah, no, you hit it right on it. And if we can continue that co2 cycle, that’s the secret. That’s why breathing is important. That’s why when swimmers swim, they accumulate more co2 because of their breath holding, you know, they’re holding their breath while they’re doing strokes. And then they’re letting out the breath. And that’s a very important co2. If you start taking baking soda, it helps with that too. And when you drink mineral water with CO2, you know anything with carbon dioxide, like Pellegrini mode, or the German one general stole just a minor. Yeah, those are very important because they’re accumulating more co2 in your body. And that helps.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And let’s talk about some of these reducing compounds you’ve talked about. Improving NAD NADH what are some of the best ways we can actually do it stuff a mentally diet wise lifestyle wise?

Bernd Friedlander: Okay, supplemental. We know that nice [inaudible] does that and it’s the cheapest form of improving NADAN live.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I’m a [inaudible], what do you thoughts about Nigen?

Bernd Friedlander: Nigen is from Chroma DAX I’ve been using Nigen for several years now I met the company when they started the process of of utilizing milk and they found a component in milk that goes into NR which is the key factor and Nigen does work very well and in some people you know, hundred to 250 a day seems to work very well and I use that myself every day. So I’ve seen very good results from that. And also I’ve used [inaudible] blue with the complex for you know, helping with site cider chrome oxidase enzyme which is also a key component to NAD levels going up. And probably the best thing we have in nature and besides some foods like broccoli help with NAD, you know, we know that beer but you know, there’s a lot of problems with beer too. And insulin growth factors and all that because accumulation of sugar in that body. But beer has a component in there that helps with energy levels. Most of your fruits and vegetables are very good for that. In general, the best thing we can do is sunlight or red light, sunlight and red light helps with stimulating NAD plus. And I think if we get some sunlight in the morning, from from seven to 11, and then the evening from three to five, three to six, we’re getting an ad function

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: and a fats and proteins effect NAD? Does that help because we want that we want these reducing compounds so we can grab all these hydrogens. How does interplay?

Bernd Friedlander: Yeah, we’re, there’s there’s some interesting work being done, where they think that fasting, which I think what it does it, it helps to clean the body out a little bit faster, it helps with the toffee function a little bit better. But NAD is an electron transport mechanism. So any way we can increase electron through these mechanisms of you know, lifestyle and avoiding, you know, blue light, you know, avoiding computers and TV and videos, we’re going to increase NAD levels, and fasting and working out. One of the best things in improving mitochondrial function and add is concentric workouts where you do muscles work where you’re stimulating resistance, but you’re doing it in both fashion where you push, like a push up and then you risk you have resistance going back. So it’s called concentric workout. has been shown to be the greatest form of exercise to increase increase NAD levels and mitochondria.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So interesting. So would that be more of like a super slow kind of training where young slow, but then you’re also resisting on the way back so you’re not just dropping it letting gravity to give you a free ride down,

Bernd Friedlander: You’re 100% right on that. And that’s, you know, the 10 seconds pushing any kind of resistive exercise where you count to 10. And you go down on a count of 10. And any form where you’re pushing against something and you push and somebody pushes you against the movement, you’re using concentric exercise.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And what’s your take on some of these bands that are out now some of these really thicker bands, I’m starting to like them because I’m seeing Well number one, and this week or place here or you know, squat where you could get hurt in the detentions last but then as you go further out, it’s more and then you also have a lot of things tension on the way back to it and it’s like what’s your take on bands for some of that stimulate?

Bernd Friedlander: I think bands are utilized correctly are incredible exercise in combination with core exercise, you know, when you do the core at the same times with the band, meaning if you’re squatting a little bit and you’re using your stomach muscles, you know that squatting, you know, anytime you do a plank, you’re using your core muscles or-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Some lunges and anytime you’re stabilizing your body where you could fall over, you’re using that whole entire core. 

Bernd Friedlander: If you use the whole entire core, you’re getting a greater results on the body in full function and get greater mitochondria function and the repair mechanism increases. Athletes when we used to see athletes with the Raiders, Rams and Lakers. I didn’t realize until now what I was doing then. But I realized that when you do concentric exercise, you’re actually decreasing the amount of tension to the joint and because of that You are also facilitating healing and mitochondrial function. I think that’s the key to the concentric exercises is that you’re leaving eating the stress on the joints when you coming after a surgery or bi or having pain or any kind of thing.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So essentially what the con centric, everything’s slow so that muscles always contracting. So if it’s the chest here, and then you’re coming back on here, well, now it’s going to be the back muscles that are starting to shorten the stage on the way down. So front, concentric on the chest on the way out, and then back. It’s going to be more concentric on the way back, right slow.

Bernd Friedlander: Yeah. And when you do a band workout, if you can do a band workout and you put your doctors and you’re pushing out, you want to also have it somehow resistance going back in, you know, so you’re pushing. So you take your hands, and you know, you do like, push like this and then push out this way, but I’m resisting Celebrate do both ways, you’re resisting on both movements. And that is the best way to train a muscle.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent. Yeah, I like that. That makes a lot of sense. So regarding the Krebs cycle and NADH, is there any DS or any other let’s just summarize. So obviously we have nitrogen we have nice minimized. You mentioned some of the vegetable compounds, right? What other compounds can we do to improve NADH? And then what about FADH? To that that kind of gets ignored? Can we increase FADH to it all? Right, ADH.

Bernd Friedlander: Yeah, we can. And, you know, again, I think a lot of it is the quality of life, you know, is the stress reducing your stress value, having a positive attitude, meditation, all these are, you’d be surprised how the respiratory chain uses all this in the mitochondria improves on all levels. One of the things is when you consume foods like you know Color foods like pulp bell peppers, yellow, green and red. They’re very important onions are very important certain fruits like apples have tremendous benefits in that. And if we cook our vegetables specially Aqua ciphers, vegetables and and don’t eat them so raw we break down to cellulose which allows for the digestion to improve and assimilate all the nutrients in that vegetable rather than having too much fiber and causing dissension bloating. I think also, you know, we you know, coffee does that to coffee helps with mitochondria stimulation. People don’t-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Let’s talk about that a lot of people think coffee may not be a good thing. I mean, obviously we overdo it and get too much caffeine or we were a slow caffeine metabolize or there may be a problem there, but can you talk about some of the benefits whether it’s alkaloids and also some of the mitochondria and anti aging benefits with coffee? 

Bernd Friedlander: You know, about 15 20 years ago, I met a fellow Radical pathologists, antioxidant expert. And I met him at Stanford when I was working at Stanford at the ESRI department. And I said what we were talking about antioxidants and free route and he says, you know, the greatest antioxidant food we have today, he mentioned was coffee. Yeah. And coffee is truly an antioxidant, has high antioxidants. But one of the important things about coffee, the caffeine is essential for stimulating blood flow and oxygen to ourselves. It helps if you I learned this when I was working at UCLA with the athletes I learned from a cell physiologist. He says if I take coffee and I take an aspirin in the morning, it will increase my uncoupling protein mechanism meaning I will get greater mitochondrial benefits I will get better electron flow better oxygen to myself. And so I started using coffee and aspirin in the morning with the athletes. And not only that improved their cognitive, but their exercise performance and all of that improved dramatically. So I think all of that is, you know, coffee has magnesium, it helps with oxygen. It helps with caffeine. So you get great a flow of oxygen to the brain. And it’s all around probably the best, you know, cognitive drink we have there in nature. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent. And then I know what the aspirin that’s the Seattle that’s the Seattle acetic acid. There are side effects associated with that with alterations and liver issues. Do you feel like the benefits outweigh some of the side effects? Is there a dose issue there? And then also, would you rather use white willow bark or just straight aspirin?

Bernd Friedlander: Well, I’ve been using aspirin for oh god going back since the late 80s and 90s. So I’d learn basically it’s if you have an ulcer it’s going to be created by something totally different. Yeah, h pylori, or actually salt deficiency. I’ve used salt and vitamin E and and getting rid of all the severe ulcers. Yeah. The other thing is aspirin recently came out with a great paper on aspirin shown that it has one of the best mechanisms for a toffee and increasing toffee. So it also helps with try back yellow meaning it helps to stimulate calcium into the bone. So if you’re where you’re breaking bone down, because every time we work out we don’t take enough calcium vitamin D where we’re actually using calcium as an excitatory mineral to handle stresses all the stresses in our life so it gets pulled out of bone. Well, aspirin helps with calcium, vitamin D and going back into the bone and keeping the bones From it also has antioxidant components. It helps with platelet function so it prevents platelets from sticking and clotting together. That’s a big factor of aspirin. But I tell people if they’re going to take aspirin, take a with baking soda, you getting the benefits of the buffering system, you’re getting co2 levels and you’re getting the benefits of what aspirin does without causing a disturbance or this stress in the body in the colon.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Are there any benefits just doing the whole herb that aspirin comes from, which is the white willow bark over the stage?

Bernd Friedlander: I learned this from a veterinarian actually who’s working with us in race horses, and they buy the pure aspirin powder in potassium, magnesium is sodium salicylates, you know, yeah, and they use that rather than than YN for the horses and animals. They require so much of it, that they have to buy the huge bulk. So if you can get potassium, sodium magnesium salicylates, that’s even better and you’ve got to go to a pets you know compound or somebody that works with animals then you can order from them and now you’re getting greater results.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah and then what’s your take on the race syndrome that can happen with the aspirin know that can happen when you’re younger usually there’s a viral infection happening with it. And then so you really want to be careful taking aspirin if there could be a viral infection?

Bernd Friedlander: If it’s you know, that’s something I have not I’ve read and looked at research and I have not found a true paper on that. It’s the same thing with honey they said if you take honey at a certain age, you know it can contribute to this problem to not seen enough of it, but I you know, for a child, you know, if you’re going to give asked me, you want to make sure that child gets very low anyway, extremely under maybe 45 milligrams or less. They don’t need much.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’ll put in the chat here for you an article on aspirin and [inaudible], basically the big thing is it’s just, um, you want to avoid giving aspirin with kids when there could be a viral infection. So in general, just trying to maybe avoid it to begin with until people are older, maybe a good idea. I know people are hearing a lot of the benefits. I just want to make sure they don’t jump on board and, and give it to a kid or just to be on the safe side there.

Bernd Friedlander: Absolutely. I agree.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Well, that’s good. I think there’s some benefits there. That’s excellent. And then what about topically using aspirin? Can you put it in like some DMS or some kind of a lipid normal solution? rub it on the skin of the joints?

Bernd Friedlander: Yes, absolutely. Um, you know, back in the old days, we used to use a lot of that we used to grind the aspirin and then add a little DMSO with it, or anything that our aloe vera anything that helps with driving that in there, you know, essential oils, and it’s a great topical, great topical, because it works. You know, aspirin is one of the few molecules that works on Cox one and two. mean in the prostate gland is wanting to every other anti inflammatory only deals with one of them correct one and that’s it not with two. So aspirin has a greater potential inflammatory mechanisms in anything else and Buswell of those two as well as the only plant that works on both one and two-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Have a curcumin that do both, or?

Bernd Friedlander: No, Curcumin doesn’t work on both only Buswell in nature it was done by a lot of scientific studies done at the University of Florida, Florida AMM by Elizabeth Mazzeo, MA VIO.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent, very good. So what other things can we do to help improve mitochondrial function or just improve longevity in general, you mentioned the aspirin you mentioned the coffee compounds, obviously, you like adding fat and collagen to the coffee which I think is even better, because you kind of time release any of the stimulation that you get from there which is nice. Anything else you want to highlight?

Bernd Friedlander: Yeah. You know, looking at foods like pasture raised eggs is important I acute, you know, we do need protein, there’s no way a vegan is going to survive long term results. You know, most of the people that I reviewed that live 90 to 100 years old and I did a paper back in the 90s or 80s at UCLA, and I found that the people I interview, they were outgoing, they had a positive attitude. They were in sunlight all the time. They were never indoors. They took walks, they never exercise, but they took walks, they ate really well. They had a great breakfast, all of them. I remember telling me about there was 250 people that we interviewed that were 95 Plus, and they all had a good meal with protein. You know they ate cleaner there because they were from different areas where everything was fresh, you know, they could get it from organic farmers. There was no spraying that that time so they ate everything. Anything with grass fed beef, lamb, you know, black cod shrimp. You know, white fish is much better than salmon. There’s less oils in this in these fish, so you’re not accumulating so much omega threes. So a lot of that and also, breathing exercise correctly getting sunlight and sleep. We got to get quality sleep. And I think the most important thing is at night, get away from your computer’s TV. You can watch some TV but no cell phones, no, you know, anything that has an EMR effect on you because you need to lower the frequency of the brain to from 0.5 hertz to 12 hertz at night. That’s the frequency of the brain at night and that’s everything we work with. It’s in gigahertz and megahertz. So we’re over stimulating the cell so I think relaxation at night putting using, you know, red, orange blue lens glasses at night to keep the filter the blue light out of the blue line. You know, that’s the secret, I think more in nature and condensing and eating right? Eat your vegetables and fruits cut back on your carbs, no doubt about it, your grains in your nuts. Those are the way I would do in law in order to live longer and, you know, less illness. And, you know, the thing is, we’re not going to extend the lifespan like some people think 220 30 we’re not genetically designed yet for that, you know, that may happen when we start accumulating with stem cells and we inject stem cells in our body. But right now, we don’t want to have diabetes, heart disease, arthritis, you know, all these things that come up. Now, even at young people at 40 and 50, where it used to be some 60s and 70s and 80s. Now it’s starting to show up earlier.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting. Now you talked about red light there any red light devices that you Like I know you’re in sunny california but most people parts of the world’s getting pretty cold and not quite possible to get outside. What are some good red light devices red light options this time of year.

Bernd Friedlander: Um, I’ve discovered from Europe a you know some light devices that I purchased for Matthew cook who’s an MD who’s one of the premier stem cell fellows in in the Bay Area in Los Gatos and we’re using these panel of lights which produce led red and infrared at 600 watts and then 45 watts and at 24 one so we have different watch. And I have them I have the person and patient just stand in front of it and look into it and that also helps with thyroid and FB. Every day I use it myself over my stomach. I think that’s the key because anyway you shine the red and infrared light It helps to facilitate more oxygen mitochondria function. It helps with cider chrome oxidase enzyme, which is the key enzyme which we know is essential to all living systems in our body. All the photosynthesis occurs with cytochrome oxidase enzyme. All the NAD occurs with cider chrome oxidase enzyme and that is found in the 600 to 800 nanometers range and that’s what we want to increase. So using it, I use it every single day and morning and evening before I go out, and at night before I go to bed, I I stimulate all my joints that I utilize the most my my stomach and I do a little thyroid. I treat my thyroid every day in the morning evening. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting and using red light for all that that’s cool. 

Bernd Friedlander: Yeah, we’ll be you know, we’ll I’ll send you a picture of the design we’re working with and I think you’ll like it. It’s something I just brought in about 50 to 100 have mostly empties using it right now because they’re using it for stem cells. And they’re seeing they’re increasing stem cell production with it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent. So red light helps to improve themselves production. And what’s your take on stem cells in general? Obviously there’s different kinds right. And some people are doing it topically some people you know, where they’re injecting it in specific areas. Some are just doing it systematically be an IV, some are going down, I think Panama’s the big hotspot. I think Dallas and Seattle have a couple of areas where you can get it done. What’s your take on stem cells?

Bernd Friedlander: Well, I’ve been doing some stem cells on myself mainly for an injury that I accumulate, playing professional soccer and running and you know, training athletes from my hip. It helps there’s no doubt, you know, platelet rich blood. Blood PRP. Yeah, PRP is very important. It helps to bring down inflammation it stimulates you the production of your own stem cells. There’s no doubt on shoulder and knees, it works phenomenal. I’ve seen results with no surgeries required for the shoulder and for the knee. We’re working on the hip area and it definitely helps improve the quality of life. I think some serious diseases, neurologic neurological diseases, I think even MS and Parkinson’s, I think it’s got great opportunity, I think we’re going to see some great results with it. There’s different stem cells coming from the, you know, different tissue placenta, you know, from the skin, adipose, bone marrow, those have different functions in the body. And I think you’re going to see more and more of this out there. And especially in sports, you’re seeing more professional athletes gravitating towards stem cells today, in less surgery.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, absolutely. Because as soon as you go get surgery and you start tearing through tissue, tissue becomes a little bit weaker, you’re more prone to injury in the future. Also just, you know, the fact that you’re talking about people that have to twitch their muscles and move with such fast level that they lose just a couple of milliseconds off after moves. They could take them out of the professional sport level. So for sure, that totally makes sense. I see stem cells, probably putting a large chunk of surgeons out of business, I just think you’re not going to need surgery for the more chronic wear and tear stuff, I think you’ll be able to come in there with diet, lifestyle, supplementation and stem cell. So it’ll be really interesting to see how, you know, things evolve over the next couple decades.

Bernd Friedlander: Yes, I think also for ligaments and tendons, it’s got greater benefits too.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And I think, you know, the biggest issue is people are still going to use stem cells and forget all the diet things, forget all the lifestyle things and use it as triage. I think when you combine it with the collagen, with a good diet with good lifestyle with the light stimulation, right, all the mitochondrial things we talked about today, I think you really have a greater chance of supercharge in your healing.

Bernd Friedlander: Absolutely. And even the people that the MDS that are doing stem cells, they want you on an anti inflammatory diet, first of all, you know, in order for this to work they want you to accumulate. And most of these stem cell clinics, it’s interesting there are using college and now and they have seen better results. They actually prep the person with college and before they come in, and when they take their own adipose tissue placenta, wherever they get it from. They see a better production of stem cells coming out of those people with consuming collagen prior to having stem cells.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting. Yeah, really fascinating. What other things do you recommend? Is there anything else that you wanted to highlight that you think is important for the listeners to know about?

Bernd Friedlander: Again, I think a lot of it is the attitude positive attitude we have every day and look good life and help others you know Don’t stress yourself out, don’t have negativity but look in the mirror every day and just say I love myself I love everything about me I look great. And then start the day with you know, doing the right things red light, sunlight, collagen, breathing exercise, concentric exercises, you know, don’t you don’t need to go and do a robotic exercise like hours a day. That’s oxidative damage. I think walking throughout the day is very important. accumulating the right proteins, you know, grass fed and all these, you know, things that are natural to us. And eating right. And you know, we don’t need to consume as much we don’t need big plates, we need small food. And there’s been studies that if you feed the body with small meals throughout the day, you increase the thermogenic function of the mitochondria, you’re stimulating the mitochondria to burn more fuel more efficiently and And all of that and then eliminating the stressors, you know, like, being on Wi Fi videos, cell phones, you know, don’t use them as much and, and and use more natural light at night because night darkness is a stressor to our body. That’s it. That’s when cortisol goes up. So we want to keep that down. So take, you know, vitamin D and take an aspirin with baking soda night. Take anti inflammatories at night, you know, that seems to work the best.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right? I think I think it’s the opposite. I mean, cortisol is dropping at night because melatonin goes up cortisol drops, cortisol comes up in the morning and then down at night.

Bernd Friedlander: Yeah, yeah. But yeah, and then cortisol suppresses melatonin. Exactly.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. So as melatonin goes up when you sleep, right, that’s going to help. Yeah, some of that repairing. That makes a lot of sense. What is your supplement regimen look like?

Bernd Friedlander: Again, in the morning, I start with an over easy passionate projects. Yeah, ES I take 30 grams of collagen with vitamin C, magnesium, and I take my and our true nature, you know, which is nitrogen. I take vitamin E, not vitamin E I take that at night, and I take a good because likes in the morning I have to end and then that’s pretty much it and then at night I do again another regimen of collagen with minerals I make sure my calcium magnesium, vitamin D, vitamin K levels are high. So I do that at night with vitamin D and I take every single night and aspirin and sometimes I’ll take tomorrow, but not all the time.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting. Very good. Excellent. Well, you have given us some great knowledge bombs here. I really appreciate it. Any last thing you want to leave with listeners.

Bernd Friedlander: I think you know I think what we need to look at I think a lot of it. I see a trend where people are starting to consume like soy milk Almond milk which are okay soy milk is not good because of the estrogen and raising estrogen. And we haven’t even spoke about how bad estrogen is. Estrogen contributes to lowering thyroid function and suppressing NADNAD molecules in our mitochondria gets suppressed by estrogen of all the hormones that’s why you need you know, progesterone pregnant one testosterone to raise NAD levels. So interesting estrogen down and we need to accumulate a less boost in that area. And I think a lot of the consumption what people are doing today with these soy milk and also almond, you know is a and keeping very important, keep the phosphorus levels down and keep the calcium levels up. There’s a gene called Klotho. KLOTHO is a gene I’ve studied for 25 years. It’s now making a difference. Tremendous regeneration of its you know, research on this shown that it controls aging and diseases and growth though is controlled by vitamin D, vitamin K and calcium and keeping a good thyroid and parathyroid, thyroid functioning and consume less phosphorus foods and you’re nuts a very high and phosphorus and some of the grains are very high. So we want to make more calcium in our diet. We’re not getting enough calcium. People think these these books out there by Tom levy that calcium is bad, actually the opposite. I have worked with a fellow at Stony Brook who reversed his own cancer, pancreatic cancer and hundreds of other people with cancer with increasing calcium in levels that most people won’t even look at.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: His affirmation has enough vitamin K though that higher amount of calcium right?

Bernd Friedlander: We need vitamin K and we get it from kale. If we cook the kale, the juice of the Kale has a tremendous amount of vitamin K. And there’s a lot of cheeses out there like Gouda has vitamin K, and especially-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You’ll probably get it in your GI in the morning as well that you’re mixing your coffee. Right, right. And then the big sources for your Vita for your calcium are obviously going to be maybe some of that cheese as well. Some of the butter and energy and also some of your green vegetables and if you eat any fish that have any, any bones in there, what else would you be getting calcium from?

Bernd Friedlander: Oh, some leafy greens and things like that. But I think the greatest any dairy products have the greatest levels of calcium. There’s no doubt about if you can handle dairy, dairy products from sheep or goat on raw milk. I think that’s where you’re going to get the best calcium. Yeah, yes, assimilate the protein helps the calcium go in more assimilated.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Because we don’t want calcium plaque forming in the arteries so that vitamin K really helps it go back into the bone. So vitamin K into the bone. parathyroid takes it out of the bone and brings it back into the bloodstreams that vitamin K i think is important, and also enough magnesium along with calcium too, because those kind of kind of going back and forth, right?

Bernd Friedlander: Yes, you need both of them.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, absolutely makes sense. Well, you’ve given us some great information here today. I really appreciate everything. Is there anything else you want to leave listeners with that we had everything?

Bernd Friedlander: I think we had everything I think, you know, I think just like I said, is start realizing that we can, you know, Google and find a lot of information don’t rely just on doctors or even myself, read about what’s really the chemistry of life. And that’s what I did. I went back and I wanted to find out who Justin is and who Bernd and who Lisa’s who we are and how this plan came about. And learning about the chemistry of life is the secret to everything that we’re talking about today. It’s photosynthesis, the sunlight, sea salt, the water, the distance of the Sun and the planet Earth. Earth and, and the amino acids and the sugar complex that created all life. And when I went back and studied, you know, 200,000 years ago, 4 billion years ago, when the 2 billion years ago we had a, an organ LO bacteria called the mitochondria, when the mitochondria started developing in a planet Earth, that’s when every living system started being created everything from fish, the animals, reptiles to certain plants and life itself. And how did this bacteria get here was the key and understanding how this key and this organelles develop, I think gave me a better view of what we need to do in ourselves to maintain that organelles, that organelles we need to maintain.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I love it. Dr. Bernd, thank you for all the feedback and little tidbits and advice here really appreciate it. Great chatting with you all and we’ll put burns information down below so if you want to reach out to him, you’ll have all his information down below. Excellent, great shout out to burn you have a phenomenal day. We’ll talk soon. 

Bernd Friedlander: Okay. Thank you Dr. You’re wonderful.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Thank you. Have a great day.


Audio Podcast:

Mitochondria 101: The Key to Longevity

Mitochondria 101: The Key to Longevity

By Dr. Justin Marchegiani

We all remember the mitochondria as the “powerhouse of the cell” from biology class. While most of us haven’t thought about these organelles since high school, the incredible power of the mitochondria has recently been gaining more and more attention. Today we’re going to take a refresher course in mitochondria, and learn how the mitochondria just might be the key to longevity.

Mitochondria 101: The Key to Longevity

What Are The Mitochondria?

Mitochondria are small organelles floating in our cells that produce about 90% of the chemical energy, adenosine triphosphate (ATP), that cells need to survive. Depending on how much energy a cell needs, some cells have thousands of mitochondria while others have none. These tiny organelles turn the electrons in the food we eat into energy our cells can use to power our bodies. Mitochondria are so important that they even have their own DNA, known as mitochondrial DNA (“mtDNA”).

Apoptosis: Cellular Suicide

In addition to creating energy, mitochondria produce other chemicals your body uses for various tasks, like breaking down waste, recycling waste products, and something called “apoptosis.” Apoptosis is programmed cell death and is crucial for a healthy body. When your body senses viruses and gene mutations, it may trigger apoptosis to prevent these from spreading. Cancer and tumors grow when left unchecked; apoptosis is needed to reign them in.

Click here to learn how to take your health to the next level!

Take Care of your Mitochondria

Healthy functioning mitochondria are essential for many of our life-sustaining metabolic processes. As essential to life as mitochondria are, they are also delicate and quite susceptible to damage. Mitochondrial dysfunction is currently characterized by a variety of metabolic illnesses. Mitochondria 101: The Key to Longevity

The following conditions are associated with changes in the structure of mitochondrial DNA or are symptoms of mitochondrial damage or malfunctioning include

  • Multiple Sclerosis: A neuroimmune disease, multiple sclerosis patients generally have impaired ATP synthesis, which is evidence of malfunctioning mitochondria. Most MS patients also have chronic oxidative stress.
  • Autism, Asperger syndrome, ADHD
  • Fatigue: One of the most common symptoms of weak mitochondria is chronic fatigue.
  • Motor skill problems, including trouble walking, talking or swallowing; loss of motor control; balance and coordination issues.
  • Digestive issues: vomiting, diarrhea, constipation, bloating, acid reflux.
  • Muscle aches, pains, weakness
  • Heart, liver, kidney disease or dysfunction.
  • Neurological problems,
  • Age-related hearing loss
  • Cancers
  • Cyclic vomiting syndrome
  • Cytochrome c oxidase deficiency
  • Neuropathy, ataxia, and retinitis pigmentosa: muscle weakness, vision loss
  • Stalled growth and development
  • Respiratory problems
  • Migraines
  • Hormonal imbalance

Mitochondria 101: The Key to Longevity

Supporting Your Mitochondria Naturally

>>Healthy Lifestyle Habits: Avoid blue light at night, get full-spectrum sunlight, make conscious choices regarding the products you buy, get enough sleep.

Additionally, it’s important to be conscious of carcinogenic EMFs and minimize your exposure to these man-made electromagnetic frequencies. Healthy mitochondria can protect you from suffering too much damage from acute exposure, but constant bombardment from EMFs including cell phones, computers, Wi-Fi routers, microwaves, etc. will wear down your mitochondria. You can read more about protecting yourself from EMF radiation here.

>>Healthy Nutrition: Eating organic, whole foods is important for everyone. For an extramitochondrial boost, consider supplementation. I recommend Mito Synergy for a packed-punch of antioxidants and mitochondrial supporting nutrients.

Mito Synergy contains:

  • Vitamin B: B vitamins are integral to mitochondrial energy production and proper mitochondrial function. A deficiency in any of the B vitamins disrupts normal energy production, leading to an accumulation of toxic byproducts and increasing oxidative stress.
  • Creatine: Creatine is a substance similar to amino acids that you find in muscle cells. It can help increase muscle mass, strength, exercise performance, and protect against neurological diseases.
  • L-Carnitine: Carnitine is an amino acid produced by the body, and is also found in red meat! It is involved in transporting compounds and also stimulates glutathione production⁠—the master antioxidant⁠.
  • CoQ10: In order for our bodies to make use of the food we eat, our mitochondria has to turn food and oxygen into usable energy in the form of ATP. This conversion process requires the presence of CoQ10. Read more about CoQ10 here.
  • Alpha Lipoic Acid (ALA): ALA has actually been labeled a “mitochondrial nutrient” by researchers due to its ability to improve the structure and function of mitochondria. ALA has also been studied for its ability to increase antioxidant levels, restore vital enzyme activity, prevent oxidative damage, and protect against cognitive decline. 
  • Curcumin: Curcumin is anti-inflammatory: it works on a control switch called NF-κB. Genes generally aren’t turned completely on or off, it’s more like adjusting the volume on your stereo. Curcumin helps downregulate or turn down the volume on NF-κB, which results in less inflammatory markers and less inflammatory stress. Curcumin also upregulates glutathione, known as the master antioxidant that also protects mitochondria, by up to 600%!

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What is CoQ10? Benefits and Uses

By Dr. Justin Marchegiani

CoQ10, also known as ubiquinone or ubiquinol, is short for Coenzyme Q10. There are a few supplements that just about everyone would benefit from, and CoQ10 makes that list.

What is CoQ10 and What Does it Do?

Not only does CoQ10 work as an antioxidant, helping to break down free radicals, and as a ‘coenzyme’ helping to break down food— it also plays a crucial role in the production of ATP, the energy currency of life.

You may be familiar with mitochondria as “the powerhouse of the cell. In order for our bodies to make use of the food we eat, our mitochondria has to turn food and oxygen into useable energy in the form of ATP. This conversion process requires the presence of CoQ10.

Why is CoQ10 so essential for your health? Evidence is showing benefits for:

  • Heart Health
  • Reproduction
  • Brain Health
  • Energy Levels
  • Free Radical Damage Protection
  • Anti-Aging
  • Eyesight Improvements
  • Immune System Support
  • Reduced Inflammation
  • Firmer Skin

Heart Health: While further trials are pending, we’ve seen promising evidence for preventing and treating heart conditions. Studies suggest that taking CoQ10 may be able to prevent recurring heart attacks: In one study, patients who took CoQ10 within 3 days of having a heart attack were able to reduce chest pain and chance of another attack.

Additionally, one review of CoQ10 stated it “has potential for use in prevention and treatment of cardiovascular disease, particularly hypertension, hyperlipidemia, coronary artery disease, and heart failure.”*

Would you benefit from CoQ10 supplementation? Click here to get 1-on-1 support!

Reproduction: In men struggling with infertility, CoQ10 was shown to help by improving sperm count & quality. *

Lowers Inflammation: CoQ10 has shown an ability to lower two markers of inflammation, NT-proBNP and gamma-glutamyl transferase (an early marker for heart failure). Inflammation is commonly referred to the “root of all modern disease,” so lowering inflammation is powerful for preventing autoimmune disease, neurocognitive decline, and other markers of aging.

Firmer Skin: CoQ10 can help with the production of collagen and elastin, the proteins responsible for making your skin flexible and firm. Topical products may not contain enough active CoQ10, so it’s better to get this coenzyme internally.

Energy Levels: We’ve already learned that CoQ10 plays a vital role in the production of cellular energy, or “ATP.” In addition to this vital role, coenzyme q10 has been shown to help with energy levels post-workout. *

Protection From Free Radical Damage: Also known as oxidative stress, free radical damage is a power to be reckoned with, and a major factor of aging. CoQ10 is one of the first antioxidants on the scene when LDL is oxidized, and can even protect membranes against oxidation in the first place.

Brain Health: There is potential for CoQ10 to treat mitochondrial disorders and neurological diseases, such as Parkinson’s and ALS (amyotrophic lateral sclerosis). Additionally, a 2014 study showed that those with higher levels of CoQ10 were 77% LESS likely to develop dementia. *,*

How to Get Enough CoQ10

Some coenzyme Q10 is actually produced naturally in your mitochondria, but natural production tends to decline with age.

Try incorporating more CoQ10-rich foods into your diet. CoQ10 rich foods include:

  • Oily fish: salmon and sardines are great choices: remember to chose wild-caught seafood for maximum nutrient profile.
  • Grass-fed beef: You also get the benefits of healthy fats and protein.
  • Vegetables: Cauliflower, broccoli, and spinach are high in CoQ10 as well as other protective antioxidants. Remember to choose organic!
  • Organ meats: Liver and kidney have high levels of CoQ10 (and are sources of a whole host of other rare nutrients!)

An easy way to ensure you’re getting the benefits of CoQ10 daily would be by taking it in supplement form. One pill (100mg) per day is generally a good maintenance dose, though depending on your health status and goals you may take more. For example, if you are trying to prevent or treat brain fog or dementia. Work with your functional medicine practitioner to determine your personal CoQ10 strategy.

Need help solving the underlying cause of your health issues? Click here!

Mitochondrial Nutrients on Fat Burning with Evan Brand | Podcast #206

Mitochondria are often referred to as the powerhouse of the cell. They are the tiny organelles inside cells that are involved in releasing energy from food. Their efficient function very much depends on one’s lifestyle and diet. Watch the video and learn the essential supports to these tiny friends before burning that fat on the gym!

Today’s podcast talks about ways to enhance one’s metabolism, the low-hanging fruits, how vegetarian diets miss out essential nutrients, or why carnitine deficiencies result in decreased ability to use long-chain fatty acids as metabolic fuel. Stay tuned for more and don’t forget to share. Sharing is caring!

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

In this episode, we cover:

00:15    B-Vitamins: The Low Hanging Fruit

06:07    Carnitine

11:39    Free-Form Amino Acids

14:13    Underlying Toxins that Affect Mitochondria

19:08    Functional Medicine that is Results Driven

23:25    CoQ10, Ubiquinol, and Ubiquinone


Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey there it’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani, welcome back to the podcast. Evan Brand, how we doing today my friend?

Evan Brand: Hey man, happy monday. We’re playing with some new technology to try to make ourselves look pretty, so let’s see how it works.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, you had a new camera on, here I saw my same uhm– more updated uh– HD webcam. We may update that in the future to a 4K one, we’ll see how it goes. But today we wanted to chat about how to enhance your metabolism. What nutrients we can use to enhance your metabolism. So, why don’t we dig in? So, off the bat, we have various energizing nutrients. We have the low hanging fruit which are B-Vitamins. Yeah, B– B-1 which is gonna be thymine, B-2 which is going to be riboflavin, B-3 which is niacin or niacinamide, we have B-5 which is pantothenic acid primarily used by the adrenals, or significantly used by adrenals, B-6 which is P-5-P, or Pyridoxal-5-Phosphate. B-6 is really important for activating and converting a lot of our brain chemicals, amino acids in our brain like serotonin. F– err– 5-HTP to serotonin, to tyrosine to dopamine, adrenaline etc. And we also had B-9, a.k.a. folate, or folic acid. We wanna use activated form, so either calcium folinate, or L– uhm– MTHF which is activated folate. We also have B-12, me– methylated which are gonna be better,  hydroxy adenosyl as well, we wanna avoid the cyano form. So that kind of rounds up a lot of the B-Vitamins. So, first off, the low-hanging fruit for enhancing your mitochondria, enhancing your body’s ability to burn fat, let’s just say it’s the B-Vitamins. Now from a food stand point, really high and high quality meats and– and vegetables, right? So, that’s kind of a low hanging fruits. We really wanna make sure digestion is good for digesting meats and such. And we’re eating a really good kind of a paleo template, lots of vegetables, lots of healthy meats, and we have good digestion, that’s gonna help us off the bat to really maximize our B-Vitamin digestion, absorption and assimilation.

Evan Brand: I was looking at my O-test the other day and I thought, “Dang it!”. I was actually really-really low on B-6. Even though– I guess I have been supplementing for– maybe a few months after my O-test, but I can’t remember when I started it. So I was tryin’ to do the timeline like, will my D’s burning through my B’s quickly, due to working too much, or– what is it, you know, so, we find that B-Vitamins are low all the time. We do know that stress burns ’em up, you and I talk about this all the time with like amino acid metabolism, we talked about burning through neurotransmitters quickly, so– B-Vitamins, same thing, and then Vitamin-C, I would put that in the same category too. We actually test Vitamin-C on the organic acids panel, I would say like 9 out of every 10 people we test are low on Vitamin-C. I actually drink some this morning. I just do a mixed ascorbate powder, with the citrus bioflavonoids, and 25 hundred milligrams all you need in 2 months and you can rebuild your levels.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow that’s really good.

Evan Brand: What are you– what are you popping? ___[02:52], what is he swallowing?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh yeah, sorry about that.

Evan Brand: [laughs]

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I should had just turned out my mic so it wasn’t– it wasn’t grabbing it. Uhm– but, it’s B-Vitamins, carnitine, creatine, uhm– ribose, all of the mitochondrial nutrients that we need to help maximizing burning fat for fuel. So–

Evan Brand: Let’s talk about creatine. You– you men– you brought up creatine. Now, you know, people out there may say, “Oh, well creatine isn’t that for your muscles, isn’t that I should be using to increase muscle mass at the gym?”.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. [crosstalk]. It increase growth hormone too. It’s– it’s instantaneous muscle fuel. Uhm– but yeah, it’s– it’s really important for the mitochondria of course. And it– it’s fuel that can be used by the muscle right away. And again, what I like about the creatine is the fact that there is some in– in me, but the problem is not a lot like, 5 or 10 grams that I may get supplementally, you know, maybe a couple hundred milligrams in a mitochondrial support. But if I use creatine before the gym, Im– if I do like a kre-alkalyn or a creatine monohydrate, I’m gonna do 5 or 10 grams, and you don’t have to eat 20 or 30 pounds of meat to get that kind of creatine. So it’s nice to be able to supplement that just because the food wise, you’re not gonna get the same level of concentration. So there’s some really good benefits in there on the supplement side, especially for the lack of having to eat that much meat, it’s impossible.

Evan Brand: Right. Yeah, carnitine, let’s talk about carnitines. So, there’s a ketone and fatty acid section on the organic acid test. So we can kind of look at this and– and we can see whether someone’s been fasting or whether they’d been on like a ketogenic diet. And we can also tell too when there’s metabolism issues or metabolism defects you could call on, on the O-test. Now, what the prescription generally is for this when we see that these markers go high, the prescription could be acetyl L-carnitine, and very helpful for brain fog too. You know, we know– we had a lot of people that say, “Oh, I just don’t have the mental energy or the physical energies”. So they’re mentally tired, so they don’t have the motivation to get things done. That could be in– tied into amino acids but, for this conversation, it could be tied in to carnitine deficiency. And that also, like you mentioned is important for energizing and helping mitochondria, so if you’re a carnitine deficient, you literally, or not making enough energy at the cellular level. And you can replace carnitines supplementally, but as you mentioned, you do want the good meats in the diet. That’s why we see so many vegetarians and vegans, they show low on things like this on the test.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly, and if you look at carnitine, you know, what its job is, you go to any biochemistry textbook, you’ll find something known as the carnitine shuttle. And the carnitine shuttle, it essentially shuttles free fatty acids into the mitochondria. Let me see if I can find uh– my biochemistry– come on, one sec. Let me see if I have it close by. Yeah, I do, right here– here– alright.

Evan Brand: So free acid– so– so that– so this has to come from the diet. You’ve gotta have some free fatty acids coming, so–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, so you need the– so number 1, the carnitine shuttle’s really important because it’s gonna take free fatty acids, and it’s gonna dump it into the mitochondria, right, and then the body’s gonna be able to burn that up for fuel. But the other really-really important part– so carnitine shuttle is 188, 189– so we’re doing this on the fly here guys. We’re keeping it real for ‘ya all, okay? I’ll try to be the– the mayor or real ville here.

Evan Brand: [laughs]

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay.

Evan Brand: I see.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 189. So, off the bat, we have carnitine right here. This is the mitochondrial matrix.

Evan Brand: Go a little higher, we can’t see it yet.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, sorry.

Evan Brand: There you go.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, you could see it right here, your body is using carnitine right here. So this is the inner mitochondrial membrane. This is the outer, mitochondria membrane. So essentially, you could see carnitine is literally bringing all these good fatty acids inside the mitochondria. So you need carnitine to bring it inside the mitochondria. Now couple of things I wanna highlight here, is to make carnitine– you actually need– right here, check this out.

Evan Brand: Go a little higher if you want us to see– oh, right there. Okay, yeah, we can’t read it, it’s too small.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: [reads], carnitine can be attained from the diet where it’s from primarily in meat products. Carnitine can also be synthesized from amino acids, lysine and methionine, by a systematic pathway from liver, therefore these tissues are totally dependent on carnitine provided by the liver. And then there’s one more part in here that it talks about vegetarian diets are primarily deficient in methionine and lysine.

Evan Brand: Right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So what does that mean? If you’re vegetarian, it’s a chance that those nutrients are gonna be low, you’re not gonna be able to make, ’cause you’re gonna go take carnitine in from animal products – meat, right? Or you make it from methionine and lysine. And if vegetarian diet are primarily deficient in methionine and lysine then you’re gonna have problem generating ATP, right? Adenosine Triphosphate, that’s the currency the ener— the energy currency in our body. We’re gonna have problem being able to generate that, being on a vegetarian diet.

Evan Brand: And what does that mean? In short, you’re gonna be tired. And this is why you go to your doctor, and they may try to diagnose you with chronic fatigue, or they may try to diagnose you with ADD, or ADHD so they can give you a methamphetamine derivative such as adderall or vyvanse to try to crank up your energy. You may be dependent on coffee to get yourself up and going in the morning. It’s not a coffee deficiency as some may want us to think. Or– you know, my wife, she loves her coffee but I’ll tell her, it’s not– a coffee deficiency, you know, it could be carnitine. What else you got for us?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So– so right here, check this out. So this section right here, it’s called “E”, it’s called carnitine deficiencies. Such deficiencies result in decrease ability to use long chain fatty acids as metabolic fuel, right? So saturated fatty acids, right– the m— the medium chain ones are– coconut oil, those kind of things. The longer ones are gonna be like our– our saturated ones are animal fats. Uhm– but right here, it says, “Secondary carnitine deficiencies may occur for many reasons including patients with liver disease, number 2 is individual suffering from malnutrition. Or– those on on strict vegetarian diets”.

Evan Brand: Boom! There is it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And it also talks about severe infections, burns, trauma, pregnancy, as other mechanism or means in why you would be low in the carnitine, Isn’t that interesting?

Evan Brand: That’s crazy. Well that first paragraph you read, it said something about how you could source it from lysine and methionine as well but it requires an enzymatic process in the liver. And I thought, well, what about all these people that had toxic livers? They’re probably converting it the way they should–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mmmhhhhmm–

Evan Brand: So someone could say, “Oh, I’m tired”. And they could have meat in teh diet but it could be a liver problem, as well.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. Exactly, so– I wanted to just highlight there. A lot of people think vegetarian diets, you know are– are healthy but you’re missing key important nutrients. We’re not even talking about B-12. We’re talking about, you know, important self rebate– or important amino acids and methionine and lysine. And we’re talking about even B-12 and other essential fatty acids. We– we’re not even getting to Vitamin-A. Now people may say, “Wow you’re getting beta carotene”, yeah, but, you may not be converting beta carotene to Vitamin-A. One mechanism is if– if you see like people that have a little bit orangy kind of palms, that can kinda tell you that– uhm— you’re not converting it. Lower thyroid people have a harder time converting beta carotene to Vitamin-A as well. So, these just things you wanna keep in mind. And, some of the organic acids we’ll look at are ethyl malonate, and suberate, and adipate. These are the big ones that we’ll look at and if we see them go really high, it tends to mean that we’re not– uhm— we don’t have enough carnitine on board to really make this carnitine shuttle mechanism happen optimally.

Evan Brand: Yeah so– so even if– so– so you’re saying if that’s happening, even if the diet does have meat, so let’s say somebody’s following a paleo template–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mmmhmm–

Evan Brand: You’re saying if we see high on these markers here–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Mmmhmm–

Evan Brand: –we know that carnitine shuttles’s not happening. They’re still gonna be tired regardless of whether they’re paleo or not.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I mean, it’s gonna mean that pe– these people are not generating energy from they’re fat optimally, and that’s important. We wanna make sure we have good fatty acid energy uhm— that’s happening. And also we wanna be able to burn fat for fuel. So if we see people that have carnitine issues and we see weight loss challenges, well then we definitely wanna supplement carnitine, you know, I– I would say between 2 to 5 grams, uhm— daily. We wanna be doing that to really enhance fats kind of breakdown. So for— we have fat loss resistance or fat loss struggles and we see issue with carnitine, you really wanna make sure we’re getting good carnitine on the food, right? Animal products, methionine, lysine, those kind of things. And then we wanna make sure that we supplement that on if– if we have other stressors on top of it, so really make sure that its pathways are working well especially if we see the ethyl malonate, the suburate, the adipate in the organic acids being uh– a little bit more impaired.

Evan Brand: Well let me ask you this, I know you’re a big fan of free-form amino acids. So will this be another good time to throw those in because you mentioned like lysine, methionine in this process, could that help, if you wanted to throw it in along with carnitine?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I think so. I mean, if you look on the– I think marker 7 through 14, there’s some areas that will correlate or look at the amino acids, and so that’s good to look at. So if we see lower amino acids, we wanna give a free-fatty acid formula. And again, amino acids gonna be low for two reasons, from an absorption reason, from a he— or 3, from an absorption issue, you’re not absorbing it too, you’re not– you’re not eating it, right?

Evan Brand: Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And– and 3, you know, we may even wanna just supplement it on top of it as well. On the s– the stress part. So the stress part is a third one where you’re just burning up ’cause of stress. You’re– your’re just more catabolic.

Evan Brand: And that could be gut stress.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. You’re not eating it, you’re not absorbing it, gut stress is more of your absorption.

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And then just the overall stress part you’re more catabolic and breaking it down. And so, we would add in additional amino acids if we saw some of those pathways low. And the reason why it’s nice, there are a lot of energy, 50% of the energy that you get from the aminos actually goes into the breakdown. So it’s kind of like–

Evan Brand: Aaah–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s like using a credit card and having a 50% transaction fee, right?

Evan Brand: Ooh–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You buy something for a hundred bucks, well you get charged a hundred and fifty ’cause of that 50$ transaction fee on top of it. The nice thing about aminos, is– you get uhm— easy absorption ’cause it’s on a free form so it’s already broken down for you, that’s the benefit.

Evan Brand: Ho– how often do you use those and what’s like the typical case when you’re using free form aminos?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I don’t particularly use free form aminos myself ’cause I don’t have those markers coming back on my organic acids, but the uh– the big aminos that I will use are collagen peptides. Collagen peptides are amino acids primarily from connected tissues and much higher in glycine. Like a free form amino acid product like a ___[13:27], it’s amino acid supreme. It’s kind of more balanced across the board, where obviously connected tissue is higher in glycine, it’s lower in methionine, lower in ___[13:38], lower in uhm— uh– tyrosine but it’s higher on the other aminos, hydroxyproline, proline and glycine. And so I use those primarily, but with patients if I see those pathways coming back, or I see vegetarian issues, we’ll go with the amino acids, we’ll aso go collagen, and then we’ll add in some of these carnitine or like a mitosynergy or mitochondrial support that has a lot of those nutrients in it as well. It’s kind of we–

Evan Brand: Oh, okay. So you could do both. You’re saying could put, you know, somebody who is like an ex-vegan or vegetarian, you may put them on amino acid free form, as well as collagen, correct?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. Absolutely.

Evan Brand: Cool. That’s awesome. So you mentioned the B’s, you mentioned the C’s, we talked about aminos, we talked about the carnitine shuttle, uh– mitochondrial toxins, I mean, why do these happen in the first place. We’ll use either some type of underlying toxicity that’s affected the mitochondria, so– that could be antibiotics, that could be various toxins that we test for, like gasoline additives, xylene for women wearing perfume, that’s a big, big toxin we see, cosmetics, hair dye, we see a chemical called acrylamide that we can test for, that affects mitochondria. So toxins in general, infections like Justin mentioned in the gut, so, getting your gut checked out for parasites, bacteria, H-pylori, worms, etc., candida overgrowth could all steal nutrients as well. Uh– I had one other toxin in mine. It was the xylene, the acrylamide we see, oh, pesticides, I mean, duhh, that’s easy. I mean–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, pesticides, the antibiotics, right? I would say–

Evan Brand: Lots of chemicals?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: ___[15:06] products. Yup. I think those antibiotics are a big one too, so be careful on that. If we need to use antibiotic we don’t wanna make sure it’s specific and try to maximize the natural herbal compounds first. Uhm– so B-Vitamins, carnitine, creatine, cocutane’s another big one. Cocutanes’ really important, it helped gather all those hydrogens. Better spit out after the uhm— when it goes to the electron transport chain. And through, you know, goes to the krebs cycle electron transport chains, helps gather all those extra hydrogens. Right, we have all these ro— re– reduction reactions that occur uhm— during the kreb cycle which is basically an increase in these electrons that are– and– and the cocutanes gather a lot of them up. And it just spits out more ATP af–after it goes to the electron transport chain. So it’s really important for generating more fuel, more energy.

Evan Brand: My mitochondria showed some– some dysfunction. I got my uh– GPL-Tox chemical test done, and I did have some dysfunction. I wasn’t bad, but I had, I was a– I was a couple point off. I was like in the green, headed towards the yellow. So, I’m doing some of the mitochondrial support nutrients right now. And also, uh– you and I were looking at my blood work. My homocysteine was up a bit too. And that was due to my– uh– folate, B-12, B-6, deficiencies. The B-12 actually looked okay on the O-Test, but the B-6 was a bit low. Folate metabolism looked okay, so, maybe it was just B-6 causing homocysteine to go up, I don’t know. That’s– it [crosstalk] something else.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So– some of this could be genetic, some could be stress-based–

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So I mean, the best thing is you’re diet’s great and checked out often, “Hey you do your best to manage those stress”. You know, you work with– on the general public, and– and helping them get help this– that– that always can be stressful. And then we just supplement. We make sure we have high quality, uhm— methylated B-Vitamins that are gonna help with that. So we just kinda hit it from all ends.

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhm– do you wanna hit a couple questions that are related to this topic?

Evan Brand: Yeah, I’ve been– I’ve been firing the chat up so do you mind uh– bringing them?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, so I’m gonna just– if you guys can kind of keep the questions to these specific topics, that’s gonna help. Uh– if not we’re just gonna go through and– and cherry pick ’em. Uhm– “Any supplements or strategies that–“, nope, that’s not gonna be pertinent, sorry. Let me keep on rolling here. “How about P-Protein for a vegetarian diet?”. Yes, P-Protein is really good, you could do P-Protein, you can also add in free form amino acids as well. Those are some g– great options, I think it’s very good. Uhm– Alesson writes in, “I react to all animal proteins, autoimmune disease, etc., ___[17:32] toxic too from iron overload”. Well that’s pretty– it’s interesting, if you’re a female, you should be menstruating unless you know, unless you’re menopausal then it’s totally different. But if you’re cycling female you should menstruating, so having iron overload is pretty hard to do. Now if you’re amenorrhea because your hormones are offline, uh– your iron may also be artificially high ’cause of inflammation. Inflammation can increase uhm— you know, basically iron can act like a reactio— reactive oxygen species, ROS, so it’s like gasoline in the fire. So like an artificially, look like it goes higher, but it’s more of a result of inflammation, so it could be at too. But yeah, you’d wanna do kind of a GAPS, SCD, autoimmune template, maybe elemental diet to kind of get the inflammation under control. For sure–

Evan Brand: Uh– let me add a couple– couple comments to that. You know, I’ve discussed this before with meat. You know, meat gets the– it– it gets the blame, right? Like people will blame the eggs, or they’ll blame the animal protein, but I would go as to far as to say– there’s probably an infection component here which is why you can’t tolerate the meat. So if it’s all meat, I mean if it was red meat, I’d say, well, you know, we have some clients that have had a tick bite and they become allergic to the red meat. But if you’re saying it’s all meat, to me I bet there’s something going on, potentially H-Pylori–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: With the gut. 100%.

Evan Brand: Yeah–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: They gotta go to the 6-Rs–

Evan Brand: [crosstalk]

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: They gotta go to the 6-Rs. Yeah they gotta remove the bad foods, replace the enzymes, repair the gut lining, the hormones, remove the infection, repopulate, reinoculate, probiotics retest. But in the meantime, pre-digest all that food, get on a really hypoallergenic, easy to– to process diet, and then pre-digest all that food with– with good cooking methods to help.

Evan Brand: Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent. Let’s see here any other questions. Uh– doctor Jack Cruz says “only about one third of energy comes from food”, well, I mean, you know, we’re gonna be tapping in if or more ketogenic or we’re lower carbohydrate, we’ll be tapping in more to our body fat, so there is that, right? Just tapping into our body fat. Uhm– you got about one day’s worth of energy stored in carbohydrate, about 30 days worth of energy stored in fat. So it makes sense to really tap in to that. Uhm– and then regarding– so I guess it depends, right? ‘Cause you– you’re gonna be burning some on your body, some on– some from the food and some of the other food will be building blocks for your muscle, for your mitochondria, like actually, regenerating your body. So, I mean, I guess depends. Err– like– I– I kinda think of like regeneration is like, okay it’s going into the savings account, I think of like burning it’s going into the checking account that’s being spent right away. So we kinda have like our savings account, our checking account for right away, our savings account for regeneration. And then like, we basically have our long term savings which is more tapping into like our fats for fuel, etc. Does that make sense?

Evan Brand: Yeah, are they– are they trying to say like the other part of it like sunlight, I know– you and I have both done multiple podcast. Jack Cruz is in– a mutual friend of ours so we’ve chatted with them plenty of times. You know, sunlight is– is huge. We’re not saying that you– uh– you can ignore that. You still need exposure to sunlight. That’s just the [crosstalk] though.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. The problem with Jack Cruz is this, alright. From what I understand, Jack does not work with patients on the functional medicine side directly, okay? And I can tell you, I wish it was as simple as, no EMF, get Vitamin-D, eat lots of seafood, avoid inflammatory foods, and everyone was healed. It would make my job a thousand times easier, right? So of course, part of a– a good healthy lifestyle is mitigation of EMF. It’s gonna be “Get sunlight”, it’s gonna be grounding, it’s gonna be doing all those things. I can tell you personally, that very rarely is enough. I wish it was, it’d make my life a thousand times easier. I don’t– you know, I wouldn’t– I wouldn’t invalidate doctor Jack for saying any of the– any of those, I think they’re really helpful and they’re good foundational principles to add into your repertoire but they are not the holy grail, that is not it. You gotta do more than that. Doing that is not gonna fix an infection, it’s not gonna fix, you know, poor digestion, nutrient deficiencies, toxic overload, you need extra support above and beyond that. I think it’s important but not the whole story.

Evan Brand: Yeah, like gasoline additives for example, you know, you could set out naked in the sun for 12 hours, you’re not gonna detox, these– these things that are deeply stored inside of us no matter what you do unless you really start to use some nutrients to focus on that. Or you’re doing something maybe like a near infrared sauna or something else to help penetrate. You– you just can’t get the penetration level that you need from just sunlight alone to help with toxins. And then the infection piece like you said, I had H-Pylori, I had giardia, I needed herbs to clear those things out.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. Yup. So just keep that in the back of your mind. Again, you know, I don’t have a dog in the fight, I just wanna make my– my tool bag, right? The tools that I utilize to help patients uhm— get bigger and better so I can help more people, like, I don’t have an affinity to use a screwdriver over you know, a wrench, monkey wrench so to speak. I– I don’t care, right?

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Think of like the monkey wrench being like this supplement or that test, or this diet, I– I don’t care I– I’m result driven. A lot of people, they wanna market themselves so they’re– they’re– they need of what they say to be unique ’cause they’re not necessarily results driven, they’re more marketing driven. So, you just kind of keep that in the back of your head.

Evan Brand: Yeah, so to all just add at one last comment, we’ll move on. So if you gp to a lime expert for example, they’re gonna blame everything online. And if you go to a Hashimoto’s expert, they’re saying everything’s your thyroid, you go an adrenal expert, everything is adrenals, adrenal fatigue, adrenal dysfunction, you know, so– we– we try to be specialist and generalist at the same time, meaning, you gotta address all biosystems. So it’s not that these people are wrong, and it’s not that these people are right. It’s that everybody has the piece to the puzzle. Now if you’re business model, selling books on genetics, you need to talk about genetics a lot. If you’re book is on adrenals, you gotta talk about adrenals a lot. But, you’ve gotta have all of it. So why limit yourself, because like you say, it– at the end of the day, all that matters is, did the person get better? Yes or no. If the answer is no, then you’ve got to open up the tool bag to more tools.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s it, a hundred percent. Another question came in here, uhm— CoQ10, ubiquinol, ubiquinone– ubiquinol from ___[23:30] is a reduced form, so it has an extra electron, uhm— ubiquinone uh– obviously doesn’t have that extra electron. Ubiquinones were a lot of the– you know, the research is, uh– ubiquinol it’s– it’s like one less enzymatic kind of conversion so they’re supposed to be a better reaction, a better conversion or absorption. Uhm– if you’re older, not as much studies on the ubiquinol therefore I still use the ubiquinone but I think, ubiquinol could– it– it’s promising and potentially if you’re older, that may make sense but if not, you know, 3 to 500 milligrams of ubiquinone is gonna be helpful. A lot of good research on that, just make sure it’s good quality.

Evan Brand: Especially if you’re taking statins. ‘Cause we know statins deplete CoQ10 and statins are pastel like candies. So if you’re doing one, gotta make sure that’s in the– in the protocol.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah you have this uhm— this methylmalonic acid pathway, right? So you have essentially this HMG-COA reductase enzyme, right? And this, it gets to blocked out by statins, so you have like cholesterol, and uhm— essentially this enzyme is what– ugh– let me think–

Evan Brand: I’ve seen the picture. I know exactly what you’re talking about.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: One more step down, it’s actually– you have, this HGM-COA reductase enzyme, and then cholesterol gets made, and then you have all these different important antioxidants like CoQ10, and all these other, the sterol compounds that come off of it. So we have this HMG here, cholesterol here, so it blocks this conversion so you don’t get the CoQ10, you don’t get these other important antioxidants that– that come off of it. Uhm– that’s the problem. Now, insulin is one that actually upregulates that enzyme so it causes more cholesterol. So a lot of people can actually get their cholesterol modulated by just getting inflammation under control, getting insulin under control, by getting their carbs dialed in. But uhm— first thing I would say is, you– you need CoQ10, so if you are using a statin you really have to– you know, really get that addressed on the CoQ10 side. Now we’ll look again in the inflammation and the insulin under control first. You may not even need a statin.

Evan Brand: Yup, well said.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, excellent. Alright anything else you wanna mention here Evan before we go?

Evan Brand: I think that’s it, we’ll just mention the websites so people can reach out if they need help.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Evan Brand: You can check out justinhealth— it’s, you could reach out for consult. Justin works for people around the world, skype, phone, Facetime, whatever you gotta do to get in touch with you, that’s what he does. Same thing for me, my website’s We’ve got combined total of 500 and something pieces of content. Uh– just among the podcast alone. So if you all had a specific topic that you wanna see if we’ve covered, just search justinhealth in the topic or evenbrand in the topic, I bet we’ve covered it. And uh– Jack Cruz, you know, uh– we’ve interviewed him, Justin has, I think I’ve had Cruz on my show maybe like three times. The last time we were talking all about 5-G and– EMF and all that and why he feels so good in Mexico, pretty interesting. So, check it out if you want to.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent. Alright Evan, great chatting with you, again, give us subscri— a subscribe, give us a like, hit the bell so you get the notifications here later. And appreciate you guys. Sharing is caring. Any help we’re here for you all. You guys take care. Evan, have a good day.

Evan Brand: See you later, bye.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Bye.


Dr. Jack Kruse – Functional medicine mistakes, EMF, sunlight and your mitochondria – Podcast #135

Dr.  Justin Marchegiani and Dr. Jack Kruse talk about the mitochondria and the environmental effects on it. Learn more about the importance of sunlight exposure and other light exposure as Dr. Jack shares his views and personal experiences about it.

Know about solar callus and be informed on ways to optimize light exposure including the processes and benefits involved. Discover more about biohacking the environment and get some valuable insights on the different types of diet that correlate to the location where you live.

In this episode, we cover:Dr. Jack Kruse

07:44   Sunlight and blue light exposure

16:20   Diet and its correlation to environment and climate 

32:30   Optimizing light exposure

44:11   Biohacking the environment

52:37   Assessing redox potential







Dr. Justin Marchegiani
: Hey there! It’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani. We are live here with Dr. Jack Kruse, neurosurgeon. Again, really excited to be having Dr. Jack Kruse on the show. Again, Dr. Jack Kruse went to dental school, then medical school, and then a neurosurgical residency. This guy is a modern day Renaissance man. Put a lot of time and effort into get to where he’s at now. So we’re really excited to have Dr. Jack Kruse back in the show.

Dr. Jack Kruse: Hey, what’s going on?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s not too much, man. You just got back from the neurosurgery uh—just a little while ago trauma, you mentioned so I’m glad that we had better connection here. We’re connected again.

Dr. Jack Kruse: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So we we’re talking—

Dr. Jack Kruse: Sorry about it—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. No worries. I mean you’re in the trenches. I love it. You— your clinically getting your hands dirty every day, you are on-call last night like you mentioned, too. But before we had cut off, I want to bring back the couple key topics you were mentioning. One was the top functional medicine mistakes. And you were kinda echoing some of the EMF stuff, some of the sunlight stuff. So I’m gonna let you roll on that for a few. Go ahead.

Dr. Jack Kruse: Yeah. Well the two biggies for me. I’ve been in that rehab to have everybody uhm—restate their position on—on their theories. One is SNP’s and the other one is probably adrenal fatigue.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Jack Kruse: And I think adrenal fatigue, the number one thing that we both need to agree on is the name should probably go by the wayside.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Jack Kruse: Because functionally, it’s uh— it’s a problem with brainstem and specifically the periventricular nucleus. And that nucleus is supposed to be balanced by another nucleus called uh—vagal motor complex.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jack Kruse: And that’s six different nuclei in the brainstem and basically that system  runs  the parasympathetic system and the periventricular nucleus  runs the sympathetic system. And when we talk about homeostasis or balance, those systems are designed to be yoke properly with the proper circadian signal that are present in the environment. The thing that people do not realize is when you alter the environment, it alters the response of all these brainstem nuclei. And the key way it happens is actually via the mitochondria. And mitochondria are, you know, these double layer uh—organelles that deliver most of the energy in the body. And when I say most of the energy, I wanna give people a really good visual so they understand it. Uh— I think we can compare it to like plants because I think that’s a good way to start. Uhm—when we think about plants, plants are completely connected to the earth’s magnetic field and the 

canopy is into the sun 24/7 so the reason they don’t have to eat is their pulling all  of their electrons that are excited by photons uh—in those two ways. Uhm—they’re not designed to move across the tectonic plates so they use a different system. Uhm— most people know that system is called photosynthesis. The uh— interesting part are us since we’re animals, more complex, we move across  the tectonic plates and we’re moving in and out of the canopy. That means that we have to have backup system in us that plants don’t have to have. And what people functionally do not realize is they look at a chloroplastin and they look at mitochondria, they’re exactly the same.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Jack Kruse: Meaning they were both once bacteria, that compare with what we consider endosymbiosis. In other words, we_them and we change their function to be uh— an energy producer. Uh—what people don’t understand in animals, is that, on average and I’m giving you averaging on being a 70-kg adult, meats on average to make 85 kg of ATP per day. So I want you to think about that. If you have to make more ATP per day than you weigh, that is the function of a mitochondria. But here is where it gets really interesting. Food only provides 1/3 of the amount of electrons to make ATP. Well, guess what is—is supposed to provide the other two thirds? Sunlight—and how does that happen? It’s a function of the protein in the intermitochondrial membrane called uh—Cytochrome C Oxidase which I think most people know. And Cytochrome C Oxidase is a heme protein just like hemoglobin in our skin. Uh—and what it does it absorbs best in what we call the optical window. And the optical window grows from about 700-1400 average specifically in the red infrared range. And what does it do? It makes ATPase spend much faster and we create uhm— several things from that. Not only do we create ATP, we create the other 2/3 of the ATP that food don’t  provide us. The other key thing is the faster the ATPase spends, the higher magnetic flux we create in a cell. And that’s where magnetic fields come and—and most people who are in the allophatic and functional medicine don’t functionally really understand how the magnetic field is generated and how it’s designed to alter as current that comes across the intermitochondrial membrane in the form of electrons. And also—In fact, everything in the environment, okay? Everything functionally comes down to electrons.  If you don’t believe me, there’s your— And I know everybody who’s a doctor, if you remember back to basic Chemistry in high school, they said that just the change in electrons show changes chemistry everywhere. That’s what valence chemistry is all about.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So electrons are really important to talk about how to— how do you affect, how do you change or reduce the oxidation of these electrons coz oxidation is essentially a loss of these electrons. That’s what causes the rust—the nails—

Dr. Jack Kruse: That’s—that’s—that’s too far down the path. You need to understand something you’ve got more simple. How do we program electrons? Here’s—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay.

Dr. Jack Kruse: Here’s the interesting thing. Everything in the world—everything has electrons in it, okay? So how do we program electrons naturally? You do it by sunlight frequencies. In other words, an electron becomes excited and once it gets excited, it goes up to this state. The difference between this state and this state is the redox potential. That’s what you just asked me. But you have to realize what excites the electron first is the key. And the interesting thing if you look at the mitochondria, as it’s laid out, Cytochrome 1 and Cytochrome 5 which is ATPase that redox potential is designed go from about -400 all the way to zero where oxygen is. So it’s the same effect. So what is light’s real goal? Light’s real goal is to figure out how to take an electron after it’s been programmed as it falls to the ground state, it capture the light energy that programs that electron. And that’s what makes a tomato’s electron different than a cucumber than a stake that you’ve just said. And there’s a frequency—a rosetta stone frequency in everything, in all our environment and your mitochondria pays attention to that. That’s the reason why I told you earlier that we’re designed to pay attention to the environment, and it’s not an endogenous defect within us. The defect is created because there is a disconnection in the system in terms of how it’s able to connect to nature and the reason that’s occurred for our species is because we think all the things that we come up are really great because we don’t understand the owner’s manual, what’s built into the mitochondria and how it works.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So how are we applying this with the sunlight? Is there an optimal time of day? What exposure look like? What part of the body is getting it? Are you wearing the glasses all day long to block out the blue light? How are you applying this so that you can get the maximal electron benefit in your life?

Dr. Jack Kruse: Well, Justin, you have a pretty interesting perspective already coz when we first started talking outside, you noticed I wasn’t wearing these.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Jack Kruse: You asked me to come into my office to do this coz you’d get better audio, I was not kinda like not terribly into that—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Haha—

Dr. Jack Kruse: I was up all night uh—on trauma call. Just finished a big spinal reconstruction so I’ve been inside. I missed the sunlight today. So I wanted the  actual sunlight. I mean—I don’t—I don’t wanna be around any blue light right now because of what I had to do last night. So what happens to me last night uh— the blue light that I was around uh— from the operating room and everything else, took my respiratory proteins and stretched them out. And see, here’s the interesting thing, those fibrous respiratory proteins, Cytochrome 1, 2, 3, 4 and the ATPase which is Cytochrome 5, the further they get stretched out, the less electrons. Meaning, the cart drops precipitously. And just so you know, what is the linkage between that? And this is very important for everybody to understand. Every one 1 Å increase, decreases electron calling between those by a factor of 10.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Jack Kruse: So any time you’re in blue light, for example, I’ll give you a perfect one for right now. Since we’re talking on Skype, you’re on a computer monitor, you have no protection on your thyroid gland.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Jack Kruse: You have no protection on your eye. You are creating adrenal fatigue and hypothyroidism as we speak.

Dr. Jack Kruse: And I don’t care how much medicine you take to off-set that. If you do that long enough, it ain’t gonna work. And the functional medicine paradigm says, “NO, if I replace this, I can get you back to normal.” And I’m gonna tell you, epic fail.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Ok. So this is good. I’m learning—I’m learning a lot of new things. I typically do the blue light sunglasses at night to—to lower the cortisol and raise the melatonin at night.

Dr. Jack Kruse: Let me tell you why it’s a bad thing. Do you know, there’s a thing in Physics, when they talk about uh—degrees Kelvin and the color temperature. You know what, uh—when the sun rises in the morning, do you know what the Kelvin is? When it rises, it’s 1800 Kelvin. Right now, what you’re looking at, is 5700 to 6500 kelvin. Here’s where it’s good news. You asked me to call you at noon. Noon central standard time where we both are, that’s when solar light is at 5700 Kelvin. You know what it is around 5 o’clock in—in our CST? It’s 18—I’m sorry—16,000 Kelvin. So here’s the point that I’m trying to make to you. That change in Kelvin adapts over the day. Your pituitary gland via hypothalamic pituitary axis, that’s the rosetta frequency that’s turned on. That’s where circadian comes. That’s the reason why your testosterone is supposed to be  highest at 10 am. But if you do, what I had last night or what you’re doing right now, you’re ruining that. You’re also ruining your—your thyroid because what people don’t realize our thyroid’s exposed. Blue lights penetrate all the way in to the fat layer. That is where actually the arterials are.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Jack Kruse: That’s actually a problem. So when you’re inside, I always want people covered up coz I don’t want that effect. Now, when you go outside and you have this exposed, that’s a really good thing. Why? Because 42% of sunlight is your—it’s infrared-A. It’s 42%. You know why? It’s what we talked about before. Cytochrome- C oxidase is the red light Chromophore. Meaning that it works in that window. And here’s the biggest issue—what’s the biggest red light Chromophore that we have in our body? Water.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhm.

Dr. Jack Kruse: And that’s the reason why cells are 99% water by uh—molecular size and what’s—what surrounds the mitochondria? It’s called the minos layer. It’s spelled as M-I-N-O-S.  What surrounds the ATPase’s so it suspends? Water. Do you know there’s very few things thermodynamically in the world that 100% efficiency? But guess what we found in the last two years?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: What?

Dr. Jack Kruse: The ATPase when it’s surrounded by exclusions in water, spends at a 100% efficiency. See? That is the stuff that people need to learn in functional medicine—to understand how to optimize people because if you take someone, say who’s an IT worker, who’s 12 hours in the basement of the hospital. You know, inputting data for the hospital and they have, you know, retinal tears, there are RTE in their eyes, they can— their glasses look like coke bottles. And they have all these uhm—different things like adrenal fatigue, hypothyroidism, migraine, headaches. You cannot fix that person with anything in your office until they realize that they are suffering from a light deficiency problem. And that’s the key because that’s the levers that turn on this anterior semiconductor circuit that goes from your retina into your pituitary, and from your pituitary, goes right in to your brainstem to turn all these things on.  And what controls them is the frequencies of light that are in there. See? We are beings of light. And people do not realize this. This is what the science of quantum biology has been teaching us over the last hundred years. But the problem is, if you don’t read it, you don’t realize what’s already been published.  And when I talk to people, people are really surprised to find out that this stuff is actually published like 10 years ago, I was crazy __. Now you can go out and buy books about this and read about it and go, “Wow!” Coz I know when I went to Dental School  and I went to Medical School, I never learned about any of it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So what does it all look like from an application standpoint? Because I’m in trenches seeing about 50 or 60 patients a week and I’m trying to create diet and lifestyle application shift habits to make these— to make the person heal or help them send out their body into an anabolic state? So sunlight— walk me through your routine. What does that look like for you? Daily basis.

Dr. Jack Kruse: Well, let me—let me just say this, uh—if you remember the equation I gave you before about ATP for uh—a day?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jack Kruse: And food is only one third. Let me ask you a question, just from third grade Math. Does it make more sense to focus in on one third or the two thirds?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Now two thirds, of course. So you’re focusing on—

Dr. Jack Kruse: Two thirds.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: The reducing EMF and then getting the sunlight, getting the right exposure.

Dr. Jack Kruse: Well, that’s where the 2/3 come from.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Jack Kruse: And that’s the point. The point is it’s kinda like Dave Ramsey, you know, always go for where the— you know the best thing for the buck is.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.

Dr. Jack Kruse: And I—I get very frustrated, you know. All my members know my position on this. I don’t think food is important as everybody else does. But the one aspect of food that’s critically important is DHA and it has to come from seafood and it has to be, you know, ordered in SN-2 position coz it has to be paired by medic to get into the central nervous system and get into the peripheral nervous system. And that is what actually controls the central retinal pathway that turns the things on and off at the appropriate times that a functional medicine doctor wants and that an allophatic doctor wants, in fact, the patient wants. They don’t know this. They don’t know the level of complexity uh— that’s present there and it’s really important that we begin to teach people that. So for example, the number one thing I tell everybody the—the best healing in the world uh— for anybody, I don’t care what their disease is to make like the sphinx every morning. What does that mean? Go google a picture of the sphinx, much looking in the direction of the sun. And I want all four extremities grounded. Why? Because when you’re grounded, you have a complete wireless connection. It’s no different than your coffee maker at home. Does it work as well when it’s not grounded? The answer is no. The current is decreased. What do you know about current? Basic Physics. Well, the slower the current, the less the magnetic fluxes. What did we talk about before about the ATPase? We want that __. We want it kicking out as much ATP as it can because the more it kicks off, the less that we eat. That’s the real cause of obesity. It’s not what everybody else believes. So you’re a fat slob. Uh— and you eat too much and you don’t exercise, right? I got news for you. I got pretty damn good data that I actually I ate more and exercise less and lose a 150 pounds and you know, 12 years on now and I still have a 130 pounds of that off.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Now looking at your diet recommendations and in your epi—Epi-Paleo Rx book.  We’ll put links down below so people can access that book. But you really talked about people overemphasizing macronutrients and you want to bring it back to the micronutrients and you really stress and emphasized the DHA for the electron benefits that you mentioned. But the bottom of your peer__ primarily the shellfish, the oysters, the crustaceans. You also emphasize a lot about organ meats, too. Now, those types of foods are gonna be—are gonna promote a lot of insulin sensitivity. Meaning they’re gonna help with insulin resistance. Is that a possible mechanism that help— help you lose a lot of that weight or you—

Dr. Jack Kruse: No.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Put more on the sunlight piece?

Dr. Jack Kruse: What—what people don’t understand in functional medicine, actually in medicine, insulin is a solo hormone. In other words, you can eat carbohydrates at a high level as long you live on the equator. And that’s the reason why the Maasai are able to do what they do and why somebody in Chicago can’t do that. Since Chicago is set at 40—42nd latitude. What’s the power in sunlight?  Are those electrons as power—the photons is powered to do that. At the end of the day, the answer is “No.” And see, the reason why this is really important for people to understand, we are right now in a paradigm that is wanting to blame food and GMO’s and all these. I agree that it’s bad. But it’s not the key source. The key source is the altered light frequencies that we have built into our climate in ways that we don’t even see. Because remember, our camera only allows us to see the center part of the visible spectrum chance. Guess what part we can’t see? UV and IR. That’s what the single, most important for regeneration in our system. Purple and red light which is reason why when you bind it and you see all the pictures—take a look at the picture—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jack Kruse: —on the wall. That’s the brain working at the sun, okay? Look at the colors__This is—this is not just my opinion. These are reminders when I come into a podcast with a guy like you here after what I did last night. I need to go home and get into pool and do the things that I need to do to offset how I killed myself faster last night and have 3 color. Why? Because I know how to recover.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, okay.

Dr. Jack Kruse: I know the prescription to do it. The prescription to do it is to get as__ as possible and a strong sunlight and get cool into the pool while this is going on. I happen to be fortunate. I live in the 28th latitude. Right now, the temperature up is about 90 degrees. You know, even though it’s__. Uh—it’s a beautiful sunny day. Uh—with my skin type, I will be able to probably recover most of my chronocycle about 2 to 3 hours. Now, is there other way to do it? You may know I built a device with one of my co-inventors called the Quantlet. Well, a quantlet even on it’s best day, can only replace about 10% of the joules or centimeter square that sunlight does. So I always tell people nothing can replace sunlight. But if you happen to be, say a neurosurgeon that does 500 cases a year and you rarely get outside, a quantlet is probably a pretty damn good investment. Or if you’re an investor banker works in New York City, you probably need one of these. Why? Because we can turn your radial artery into another eye to deliver more light energy in that optical window to do what? To make that ATPase speed faster.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay. So let’s talk about what your—kind of a day in the life of Dr. Jack Kruse. So forget the fact radio called in for trauma surgery last night. So if you have the ability to wake up, how are you getting all four extremities grounded at the same time? Are you in the water? Are you lying on your back? What does it look like?

Dr. Jack Kruse: Yeah. For me, the simple things I do outside. And I have a place where there’s grass out my front door and the sun comes up right there. Most people who are friends with me on Facebook, I’d usually take a picture of the sunrise and send it to people and show up. I never miss—I miss today which is kinda what pissed me off but uhm—and I usually will slap down, put my hands down. Sometimes I’ll sit uh—in the__ with my hands down and I make just like the sphinx.  And I do that for about anywhere between 5-16 minutes. Uh—it’s easier obviously when I’m in different places like at the beach or in Mexico. But that’s been a routine of mine probably for the last 12 years. And the reason that you wanna do that, you are resetting 2 light signals in your body. Both the Vitamin D cycle  and the Vitamin A cycle. And the Vitamin A cycle happens to be the most important cycle in the morning. Why is this important? Because remember, no matter where you are, except on the equator, you don’t make any vitamin D until UVB sunlight kicks in. Well even in the equator, it’s not present at uh—the AM_

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.

Dr. Jack Kruse: The key thing that’s present there are the most powerful light is usually uh— UVA or more infrared. Uh—it takes about an hour on the equator for it to show up. But where most of us then outside of the tropics, uhm— you don’t make that until a lot later. And people are surprised to hear this. The key frequencies in the morning uhm—is from blue light.  And blue light is good.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.

Dr. Jack Kruse: When it comes to the sun. Because that’s the switch that actually tells the pituitary gland to make all the hormones—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: The cortisol ramped up—

Dr. Jack Kruse: Right. We make all the hormones that we secreted between 6 and 10 o’clock. Here’s the interesting part of this that people don’t realize. Do you know what your off switch is for the pituitary gland?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Melatonin.

Dr. Jack Kruse: UVA and UVB light.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay.

Dr. Jack Kruse: When the sunlight hits your skin, what happens? You release nitric oxide, the arterials come to the surface.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh yeah. Of course. Yeah.

Dr. Jack Kruse: Guess what it does? It turns off all your sex target hormones. I want you to think about something. The first light you see everyday is your computer or your cellphone. And I already told you that’s 5700 Kelvin. Are you gonna be able to turn on the signal since it never sees 1800 and gradually goes up to 5700? The answer is, “No.” You just told your brain that it’s the middle of the day. You slept all day until it’s noon. You just created a mismatch and you don’t even realize you’re creating this mismatch. And that’s the reason why when people do this 2-3 weeks at time, when functional docs or allophatic docs were—say you’re—all their melatonin, cortisol and your sex target hormones, they’re always flat. And you know, people always talk about like an adrenal fatigue, everybody’s completely crushing low. But what you guys tell people and what I tell people, the reasons why are radically different. And it completely is tied to light cyles and it can only be fixed until you understand the light cycles and how this anterior visual pathway works in the eye. Because the two major reason why we get light in are through the eye, and through the skin. The mechanism are different and the proteins that we used to do it are radically different but the ones we started off talking about this morning, you know, with the sunlight rises is the Vitamin A cycle. Why? Coz anytime blue light comes through the eye, it has low color temperature, it separates retinal from the photo receptor and that separation has to then be recycled. The other thing that happens that turns over DHA in two loops in the retina. One is called the short loop, and one is called the long loop. If the vitamin A cycle is right, short loop completely recycles DHA. That means you don’t need eat a ton of seafood. That’s the reason why people on the equator don’t have a big need for the fish. And if you look at the fish, they’re endogenous on the planet, they’re low DHA sources.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So you’re saying that people —So if you’re saying that people were on the equator, living on the equator but they were still eating refined, kinda junk food diet, you’re saying that they—they would be sidestep obesity if the  EMF—

Dr. Jack Kruse: Correct.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And the UV light is dialed in?

Dr. Jack Kruse: If they have strong light cycles. That’s the reason why we have endo—indigenous peoples who live inside the tropics. Like the perfect one for you to learn about is Maasai.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jack Kruse: And also the Hadza. They are able to eat very high carbohydrate diets and the reason why is they live in a strong UV and IR environment. The problem is, all your patients, my patients—no, they never get there. And that’s the reason why we have the false precept that carbohydrates__ they’re not bad. The environment that we are in makes them appear bad. And that perception—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So how are you—go ahead.

Dr. Jack Kruse: is important.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm. So how are you applying this with your patients? Are you seeing these functional medicine patient one-on-one? What kind of clinical results are you getting?

Dr. Jack Kruse: Very good. I mean that’s part of the reason why I came down to the gulf south because you know, down here we’re 50th and 60th uh—in just about everything. And everybody is a train wreck but the cool part is all the—the uh—how shall we say it—the recipe for recovery is built into this environment. Promise you gotta get them clicked in. And I’ll give you a perfect example. Where I am in the gulf south, uh— a hundred years ago, when it was really hot, people would be outside on their porch and—and having cake and doing all these things, what happened over the last 100 years? Now when it gets hot, people come inside, out of the sun and into air conditioner. Well, that means the best time for you to be outside, they’ve been brought inside. What does technology do? Same thing. It has brought us out from outside to inside. So let’s talk about the flipside. What do people on the South do when it’s December? Like when if it’s below 50°, people  here look like they’re dressed for the__ when in reality, what should they be doing? This is the perfect weather. If you ask somebody which is from Chicago, 50° in December, they would be like 2 thumbs up. They’d be like, “I’m all in.” And people don’t realize that your eyes and your skin pay attention to that. And Tristan talk about this, me and you, you have the shirt on, I have the shirt on. We have clothes on—that’s—that’s society’s belief that have been put on us. But let me ask you a question. When you crawled out of the vagina, did you have any clothes on? Stop for a minute and I want you think about Discovery Channel. Do you any animal that comes out of it’s mom’s vagina that has clothes on?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Of course not.

Dr. Jack Kruse: Okay, so let’s think about this. When me and you get together at some point, we plant a tree. You put all the nutrients in the water ground but I put tarp over it. Will that tree live or die?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely won’t live.

Dr. Jack Kruse: So guess what? The first specie ever created was 700,000 years ago didn’t start to wear clothes. Got it?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And so sunlight is incredibly important. You—you made that clear. I think you made some good points on that. And—and what does that look like for you, though, from an exposure time? How do you prevent getting burned and getting all this collagen deterioration from being__all night?

Dr. Jack Kruse: Well, I’m not worried about that. That’s a bunch of horse shit, okay?

The bottom line is I’m looking to see for myself on this but I just tell you there’s an app called D-minder that Dr. Robert from Boston University as well.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jack Kruse: You can get it down there. What it does? It download your GPS coordinates, where you are, and it tells you precisely how much sunlight you’re getting and how much vitamin D you make. So the easiest way for a novice to learn about their light environment is you know, to download this app and begin to play with it and see how much Vitamin D you can make at your specific location, your altitude. Because what people don’t realize the three variables for Vitamin D function are latitude, altitude and population. That’s—population density is the one that most people don’t understand. The more you live around the other idiots, the more you get dehydrated coz they’re all using non- negative devices. And the reason why this is an important thing and why you see me here drinking my green valley mountain water is the isomerization step of vitamin D3 that occurs in your skin, requires you not to be dehydrated; otherwise, your cholesterol will be really high and your vitamin D3 conversion will be low. And that pretty much describes just about everything with diabetes and metabolic syndrome. In fact, I think the epidemic uh—in most patients with lipids is tied to this factor and anybody who then says well giving them the statin makes any sense. What does a statin do? It actually increases the respiratory protein distance and we already talked about what that’s a bad idea. What is the link between Cytochrome 3 and Cytochrome 1? For your listeners who don’t know. It’s called Coenzyme Q10.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Jack Kruse: Coenzyme Q10 ferries electrons between those cycles. So if you’re stretching them out, are you making Cytochrome C more happy to make more ATP or less happy? It—and see, this is what I’m saying, when you understand how the system is wo—how the system is built, you begin to start to go, “Yeah, why are we doing some of these?” This doesn’t make any sense but the key factor, the reason why it continued—we continue to miss health and functional medicine, allophatic medicine, is because we’re focused on food and not on light. And that’s the key problem because that 2/3, 1/3 thing. And allow me to make one of the point, Justin, while we’re here. This is very important.  For those people who don’t get science, let’s give you another analogy to understand it from say, a car. If you and I went out and spent $250,000 and you bought a Ferrari, pulled all the money together, does it make more sense to focus on the fuel? Like should we put 87 in, 90 or 93 octane? Or does it make more sense to make sure that me and you spend our money, tune in the engine up so that we go 200-220 miles an hour all the time? See that’s the difference between functional medicine and the mitochondria. And I’m with the mitochondria. 30:08 And I’m the mitochondria. You guys focusing on food.  I don’t even wanna talk about food. The only time I wanna talk about food is when we talk about electrons and protons because the input in mitochondria is electron chain transport. It’s not called protein transport. It’s not called carbohydrate transport. It’s not called fat transport. And until you come to my level, I refuse to go to anyone else’s level because nature has built this into us. It’s there. We know about it but we ignore it. Why? Because the science is too hard for some people. Well, I’m sorry. It’s our job to understand how these things fit together. Until we give people the truth, not the half-truth, we’re gonna continue to struggle. And I look at it like this. All—everybody is a practitioner. We’re all in these together; we all wanna do the right thing, but we all gotta start focusing now. You go to your next functional medicine uh—talk, I hope you get on the microphone and you say, “Hey, let’s think about this. How can this one there, you know, be a provocateur?” Uhm— because they’re not. Until people start talking about these things, we’re not gonna change anything,  Justin. And to be honest with you, that’s why I do podcast. That’s the reason why I go out and talk to people. Because I want them to understand: A. Am I Crazy? Or maybe do I have some interesting perspectives that people haven’t thought about? And then B. I wanna direct you to things that are published and books that are written that surely did— maybe this is something that we have missed. Maybe we’ve been stepping on the stone at the 6th level instead of going to the 1st level. Maybe that’s the reason why people still wanna give Rhodiola for adrenal fatigue because that’s not gonna work until you fix your environment. And I always told functional guys, Rhodiola works because they have excited electrons from the damn cell. That’s the only reason it works.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So we create a checklist here so the patient’s, people listening have that checklist to optimize their light exposure. What does that look like? So we get up, we see the sun rise, we get all four extremities with the view of the sphinx as you said, right? We dial that in, we get— what’s the exposure amount look like? And we just try to get in the morning? What does the rest of they look like? Can you go to your daily routine?

Dr. Jack Kruse: Well, I would go to my daily routine but remember, my routine is based on my N=1 and that is why __. And as practitioner, you have to start to realize that what you gonna recommend to one person is not the other person. What—what are the variants? A.  What diseases they have? How bad is their mitochondria? What’s their heteroplasmy rate? What’s their appetite look like?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jack Kruse: What’s their job? Uh—what are you—what’s the goals? There’s a lot of different variables but for me, I’d give you a perfect example. I know as my day job as a neurosurgeon is my single biggest risk. So for example, days that I am in surgery, I spend more time in the sun than I would in days that I’m in clinic.  Anytime that I have a chance when I’m clinic to go outside, I tend to go outside as much as I can. So lot of people would call that coffee or smoke break, I call it the sun break. Even if you get 5 or 10 minutes at that time, it’s a help. Anytime you’re out in nature, it’s a help. So the answer is try to do it. Uhm—anytime that you can be connected, for example—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Are you worried about getting burned, too, though? Like—

Dr. Jack Kruse: No. Not me. And you can see that I’m Irish and I have freckles. Uhm—

10-12 years ago, I would be out on the sun at night, get burned pretty quick uh—but I built up a solar callus. Why did I built up a solar callus? Let me explain something to you uh—and you’re probably interested in this. The two diseases that you know very. One is psoriasis and one is type B diabetes.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Jack Kruse: You know it’s common to both diseases? The skin gets thicker.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay.

Dr. Jack Kruse: And you know why the skin gets thicker? Because the skin is looking for more sunlight. People who are diabetic usually are designed to be in a strong UV environment. That’s the reason why. They eat carbohydrates. Carbohydrates will actually thicken your skin. Turns out in psoriasis, a lack of UV light thickens the basal level. That’s the reason why Dermatology use 312 megameter light to shrink that well and plaques go away. That’s what the plaque is, it’s thickened at high internal rates almost like a pre-cancer state. If you look into the science of psoriasis, you should see everybody who has psoriasis, they’ll tell you it’s pre-malignant state. You—you’ve risk factors for all the cancers. Why is that? Coz you’re not near the regenerative uhm—light sources which is UV and IR light. So what’s the answer? You just have to go outside. Coz guess what? The shit outside is free.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: How long does it take you to build that tolerance so that you can get that to work out?

Dr. Jack Kruse: It took me—It took me about 2 to 3 years. But did I know what I was doing when I started? No. Because all the variables that I just told you, I didn’t really realize how important they are. Now I do. Now, you know, I have a__, my uh—heteroplasmy rate I got it pretty dialed in coz I did a biohack for about 12 years. On average, I would say in the winter time I need about 1½ to 2 hours; In the summer time, I usually go 3-5 hours per day.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: In the sun? And you’re doing no sunscreen at all?

Dr. Jack Kruse: There’s no freakin’ chance that I would ever wear that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And you’re not at all either?

Dr. Jack Kruse: Well if I get burned, if I get red, I have no problem. The next day, I come out and I look like uh—the way sun is designed to work. This is probably a good thing for people to hear. You’re designed to absorb all the UV frequencies in your melanin. So my freckles hold the UV light. That’s where all the excited electrons are. At night time is when you off load this into your system. So you noticed if you hang out with me for 3-4 hours, say now and the__, the next morning when you saw me, I wouldn’t be as pink. And why? Because I’ve off-loaded those things into my cellular structure. See the problem is you have to think about yourselves kinda like plant. When it’s really thirsty for water, that is gonna be delivered to places where you need it the most. So think about for your skin. Most people have their arms exposed, they don’t have their belly or their legs or other thins exposed. So those parts of your body are starved—absolutely starved for light. So if you’re smart, you start looking at, “Okay, what do I always have covered all the time? Those are the parts that I nee to uncover and get out there.” And what you do is slowly build up your solar callus. You do this through what I call, mitoact. You start to figure out empirically how your system is optimized. There’s no different than looking at the dashboard of your car, figure out, “Okay, look. My temperature’s too high. I need more gas. I need to use that.” The thing is we’re not teaching the people in allophatic medicine or in functional medicine. And if you go to one of my blogs called the redox rx wall. I give you 30 different labs that link directly to redox and  I told you how those things are linked to redox. So you read this and you start looking at your labs and you start, “Okay, I’m gonna start doing this. Let me see how these things go up and down. And when people really see how it really goes and when they start to become—what I’ve been calling—more connected with nature, in other words, you reconnect with nature. You—your wireless relationship to the sun and your complete connection  to the earth through your feet or through leather su—sole—shoes. This is something you can’t miss. And if you don’t fix this, I don’t care what your idea in a clinic, it ain’t gonna work.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it. So with the glasses—you’re wearing those glasses all day long. Is that correct? Not just the night?

Dr. Jack Kruse: I’m wearing these glasses anytime I’m inside.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Inside.

Dr. Jack Kruse: In this light day. You’re making me look—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hahaha—

Dr. Jack Kruse: You know that I didn’t have these on when we first started talking.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: No. You’re in the car and the sunroof opening you. You can get exposure. Totally.

Dr. Jack Kruse: Exactly. And that’s the point. And the thing is, one of the things in functional medicine that I think I can take a lead on because it’s not talked about enough is that we need to wear protection from blue light during the day when we’re inside.  We really do because people don’t understand that circadian variation occurs. That’s why I wanted you to understand. There’s 1800 Kelvin all the way to 16,000 Kelvin. Computer screens are optimized. Most computer screens between 5700 and 6500 globally by technology companies. So the safe—you’re working all day. And say for 10 hours-12 hours seeing patient, that means you’re getting a complete solar signal for noon the whole day. What do you think that does with your central retinal pathway? What do you think that does to your HP axis? What do you think that does to your brain cell? And then—then you wonder why people are coming in to you are zombies and they’re trash. The problem is selling the pills and herbs aren’t gonna fix that problem. That’s like—I had a saying that—that I get in trouble with with someone. It’s like pissin’ in the wind.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Haha— Yeah. I totally understand what you’re saying. Just so I understand your routine, 1-2 hours in the winter, your 3 to 5 hours in the summer.

Dr. Jack Kruse: Correct. Like today, I can tell you. When I get done with you, it’s gonna be a lot because we don’t get—just because of what happened to me yesterday, I will increase it and I’m gonna use something called the__. How am I gonna get more sunlight because it’s already 1 o’clock. I’m gonna get in the pool and stay in the pool and keep it. Top half in the sun, then I’m gonna reverse it. I’m gonna put my head in the water, a lot of my top body out. The reason why is I’m creating a bigger circuit so I can move current more from my body. And I’ll do that this afternoon to offset what I did last night. Because last night I killed myself faster and that’s why I told people that are talking to me, “Health is the slowest form of death we create.”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it. So you’re not worried about any collagen degradation or any skin cancer at all with the sun exposure? You feel like you’re doing it in a way you’re not burning per se, you’re and where you’re building up that solar uh—what’s that? What’s the word?

Dr. Jack Kruse: Solar callus.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Sollar callus. The melanin exposure. Yeah.

Dr. Jack Kruse: Well, it’s just—it’s normally that. It’s also your skin thickness becomes optimized. The thing—the thing that becomes interesting it means to you, you realize what your optimal amount of sunlight is per day. And it’s pretty easy to figure out within 4-6 weeks. The real problem that most people are gonna find if they live in the 42nd or the 50th latitude, they’re gonna realize that is a problem. Like for example, that’s the reason why people have that vast number of big problem and the reason why is they live in the wrong latitude. Because their mitochondria is not optimized for those—for that latitude. And it’s magic when they go south. Well, here’s the problem. Telling people about—MS, like you know, there’s a functional allophatic medicine doctors pretty famous in Iowa State, you know, Terry Wahls

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Jack Kruse: She tells everybody to__ And I just scoff at it. And if she was so right, you know, she’s got her MS better coz she’s doing well. Is she reversed,yeah? No. She’s not. And you know why? You know where Iowa is? The 42nd latitude.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Jack Kruse: You wanna get better? Guess what? Go down in__. You wanna do better? Go down to Ecuador.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Now how much would that has to do with Vitamin D as well? Because we know there’s a big correlation with vitamin D. So if you are at the higher latitude, what can you do? Can you supplement Vitamin D? What kind of light could you put in your house?

Dr. Jack Kruse: No. The question about supplementing sunlight, I have a blog it’s called Time 11. It’s—the title of it says 10 Supplement Sunlight. The answer is no because when you give somebody a supplement, what did you just do? You learned it in—in school that we are a series of negative an positive feedback control so when you design to mix something in the body and you take an exogenous source, you completely uncouple that system. You actually make it worse.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: But if someone is that environment, what can they do?

Dr. Jack Kruse: Change. Change the way they think about it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Are you saying move change? Or—

Dr. Jack Kruse: Well move or go up to a higher altitude, like for example, I have a member who I’ll share one of things he did. He lived in uh—Seattle. And he knew that he had these big problems becomes huge__he’s got all__. What did he find? He found that if he went to end Oregon because it’s out uh—5000 feet elevation.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jack Kruse: People don’t realize when you go about 5000 feet, you can actually raise your vitamin D levels even if you’re at a higher latitude. That’s the reason why the Swiss uh—do so well in Swiss Alps. Yet people in Finland in Helsinki are—have record rates of autoimmunity, diabetes and obesity. And that’s the reason why. Now, the other reason effect, they have big effect  for the United States, is population. So if you happen to live in a very popular state, I don’t care if you’re naked outside on Rodeo Drive in Los Angeles outside, Jack R. Stan speak in San Diego and Los Angeles. You’re not gonna raise your Vitamin D. I talk to functional docs all the time like try to know what I can understand. These people live in San Diego, they live in Los Angeles and I check their Vitamin D and they’re at 31. I put them on 20,000 a day with you know, 5 milligrams of K2. They come back and they’re at 38. He goes—they just don’t understand why. That’s what __ out a little dehydrated. And the reason why? I __ being in crap relations. Just do a regular chem 7 and—and—and variably you’ll see they’re over 15:1. And I explain to people the reason why? The isomerization step is—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Jack Kruse: It needs water to make Vitamin D. And people don’t understand this. So when I hear people default straight to the vitamin D thing, it’s either they  have to make the Mercedes aim it, or they’re trying to get people on a program. That’s not the answer. And the thing is we’re gonna make those people worse if we just throw Vitamin D down the__ Now, we need a flip side. Since I’m a surgeon, I’m trying to deal with these issues on a much more acute basis and If I can raise somebody’s redox potential by utilizing these things during that timeframe, those are the times that I’ll use it. But what do I always make sure to tell the person? We’re gonna do this in the __period but then you’re gonna change.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So what kind of case studies do you have? You have patients that you’ve seen that you’re doing—making these clinical changes with? Adding these different protocols and what kind of clinical outcomes are you seeing? And also, what if people are doing these things they’re not getting better? What do you look for next?

Dr. Jack Kruse: Well that’s when you—that’s when you have to become a biohacker of the environment. In other words, there’s something in the environment that your—that you don’t see. See, here’s the big—the big risk for most people. Non-native EMF, see your mitochondria is essential that’s connected to all the way forms in your environment. Non-native EMF, you can’t see, sense, taste or touch, but your mitochondria does because of that oscillation I told you earlier. So the key is that’s when you have to start buy gear. For example, you know that none of us can see–uh—uh—uh—X radiation. And none of us can see uhm—uhm—radiation decay. But if you had a guided__ you can see it. Well there’s this thing called the trimeter. There’s a thing gauss meter. That’s why guys like my—the friend I told you about from Seattle. I teach him how to __and biohack our environment. When they do that, then they find their problem pretty damn fast. And they’re like, “Whoa!” I mean I had people literally did not even realize that we’re—there uhm—their power source coming into our house is right where they sleep. I said, “Okay, well if you’re not gonna change it, what you need to do is have the electrician out put a kill switch to kill.” If you got some time, I got a great story of one of my members in New York City. This—this will blow your mind.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I wanna hear it. I’m gonna grab my Tri-field meter real quick, hold on. So this is the one you’re referring to, right? The Tri-field meter?

Dr. Jack Kruse: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And how are you using this? How are you applying it to look at EMF sources?

Dr. Jack Kruse: The one other big one is probably the most important one especially for the coming 5G explosion is gonna be a Cornet 88F. RF—RF radiation is horrible.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Jack Kruse: Almost anything that uses uh—pulse electro magnetic frequency, PMF, you know—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Jack Kruse: It’s talked about all the time.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, yeah.

Dr. Jack Kruse: I’m not a big fan of anything that uses PDMF.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You don’t like it, huh?

Dr. Jack Kruse: No. It has to be understood. I like it but it has to be understood. And most people who are prescribing me things don’t really understand truly what they’re doing to people who have these problems. So—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Jack Kruse: The easiest way to—to really understand your environment is when you see these bad signals, you do something about it. So one of my members who happens to be a laser physicist, him and his wife, they own a company that sells fiber optics in the city of New York, okay? 3 out of 5__ they have the contract for that. Verizon has the other two. So I have a thing on my website called the EMF boot camp. We’re teaching you basics of how to hack your environment, you know, with these devices and I hired an electrical engineer for everybody to learn. So he bought a house in Brooklyn and he tested it and it tested pretty well for this area, so he bought it. And he lived there for 2 or 3 years and he noticed about 2—I think it’s 2 ½ years he told me—that 6 out of 8 of his neighbors came down with cancer. And he was like, “This is crazy. I wonder why this happened?” So he’s got two sons and you know I told you that him and his wife are both laser physicist. They do a lot in fiber optics. The kids started playing around with his gauss meter. And his gauss meter, imagine this is magnetic field—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jack Kruse: The kids came in and told this person that uh—“Dad, you need to look at this.” And it was red light. It was over 2,000gauss

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow.

Dr. Jack Kruse: So him and his brother put painter’s tape. You know that blue tape everywhere in the living room. The center of the living room is where the biggest field is coming. They trace it up into the wall, up into the ceiling, and they knocked the holding ceiling to look and it turns out the gas line and the water line were there. They follow it all the way right the street. Now I told you this guy has got a really big company. So he’s got a construction on. He follows it out with a plumbing system all the way to a tree. And the tree, right outside, like the big maple tree you have in New York City. And what did he find? The roots of the tree grew into the___lines. And the reason he always saw the magnetic field is the electric field is dissipated by the ground. So he had just an isolated magnetic field and he knew exactly what the cause was. And he went to all the different places on the block and found that the gauss meter was off the charts in those places as well.

So here’s the point, he tested it. If you can’t assume that how it is today, it’s gonna be how it is next week especially when you have those idiots outside your window putting the new fire G cables in or putting direct TV on your neighbor’s house. Putting the smart meter in your neighborhood—and that’s the mistake that most people make. It’s the biggest mistake that I think allophatic doctors and functional medicine doctors don’t realize. They don’t realize the number one question that you should ask as soon as somebody comes in, “Tell me about your environment.” And when they tell me, I wanna know how they know. Do they have these devices? They understand how to use them? And do they need to be doing it? I—I told people it’s kinda like carbon monoxide sensory house. You should go around with these devices once a month in your environment and never assume anything.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So what does that look like? We get one of these meters maybe a try feel. What are the key meters everyone should have at home to test these things?

Dr. Jack Kruse: Well i—instead of wasting our time talking about that. I will tell you, this guy that I told you, in Seattle.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jack Kruse: His name is__. He wrote a guest log about his experience.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jack Kruse: In the side stair, I list all the meters that everybody should consider. It has amazon links to all of them. And you can learn about them and pull them up. So I don’t want people going out and spending money on things that really is a waste. I want them to start the simple thing. So for example, a tri-meter is relatively cheap.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jack Kruse: And the Cornet meter, the RF meter’s also pretty cheap. I think those are the two.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jack Kruse: That people will start with. But then I think you need depending on your environment, for example, if you live in city, you absolutely need a __50:22. You absolutely have to have it. Uh—if you live in the downtown area, there’s no question, you need to have it. But then, there’s other effects and the effects uhmm—in fact I just wrote about this. I wrote at ALS blog because the upcoming NFL draft.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jack Kruse: I did it uh—because there’s a couple of players in this draft that have significant soft tissue injuries. One of them is named uhm—Marshon Lattimore, from Ohio State, best quarterback in the draft. He’s missed two uh—seasons at Ohio State. But he’s back in at 42nd latitude in Columbus.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh. Yeah.

Dr. Jack Kruse: And see, everybody he has surgery to fix it, the kid’s a phenomenal player but if I was the Chicago Bears, if I was leaning at Patriots, I wouldn’t draft this guy. Now if I was a Jacksonville Jaguars or say the San Diego Chargers, he’d be much harm on my list. Why? Because I understand that he needs to be on a much higher light environment. Best place for him is probably Miami. Now, does anybody in the NFL understand—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Jack Kruse: — this garbage. No. And why did these players develop neurodegeneration when they’re 40, 50, and 60 years old? That’s what the link is what I just told you.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So you’re saying more melanin in the skin is gonna decrease theUV absorption essentially?

Dr. Jack Kruse: Right. Where did blacks can come from? From the equator.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Jack Kruse: My friend__

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right. Natural sunblock.

Dr. Jack Kruse: That’s the reason why when you said to me earlier. The shade is one way to do it. But how to make you do it? It make dark skin first. Why?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.

Dr. Jack Kruse: Coz that’s where we evolve. We evolve in East Africa West, okay? White guys like me and you.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jack Kruse: We came much later when we went to higher latitudes. And that’s where SNP’s came from, that’s where heteroplasmy rate change. Remember there’s an equatorial DNA but there’s all these other DNA’s for our mitochondria that are altered based on where we live. What is the key drive?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And what test are you running for the uhm—for the SNP’s? Is that the 23andMe and what are you testing?

Dr. Jack Kruse: Well the 23andMe is one thing you do but just now there’s now SNP testing that you can order for Genova.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay.

Dr. Jack Kruse: And some of the other functional places to figure it out. But the key thing that I wanna know is I wanna assess somebody’s redox potential almost as soon as they come in. Why is it their redox potential? What am I saying—I’m saying that amount of net negative charge in the body. So how could somebody simply do that? You have a body voltage meter. You could tell that way. I think there’s an easier way.  How can I look at that labs. That’s why I told you earlier when we talk, read my redox rx. There’s 30 different labs there that tell you how we all link into it. Are some of them simple, Justin? Yeah. You know what, one of the simplest ones are? Next time you talk to somebody look at their teeth. Look at the color of their teeth. If their teeth are naturally white, that’s a pretty good sign that redox potential is good. If their teeth are yellow, guess what? Their redox potential is not as good as what they think. And the reason why? Dentin and one is uh—both of them are floor for proteins. They __when their body, when the cells are emitting specific frequencies of light. They’re on the blog on that, too. Remember what you asked me, “Jack, you used to be a neurosurgeon” See? This stuff, every place you look, you can find an answer but the problem is—and I would say this, Justin, and I say this, it’s really important. Humans are really good at seeing but they suck at observation.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Jack Kruse: And—and let me tell you something. What makes you a really good doctor, what makes you a really good scientist is the people that observe nature very carefully and don’t put their precepts, their beliefs, their dogma on the observations they see. And one of the biggest problems I think that I see in modern science is that we have allowed dogma, beliefs and paradigms to affect the way the study is done. For example, you know how there’s this big thing right now in nutrition where there is a fight between the low carb and the high fat  people and all those nonsense. You know where all our ideas came from? From metabolic studies that were done 1940’s and 50’s that we can read about in many books. Let me ask you a question, Justin. Where are metabolic studies done?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well they’re don in the hospital, inside. There’s obviously gonna be—

Dr. Jack Kruse: On the blue light?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jack Kruse: On the blue light, okay? Now you open up Albus__ or Western A Price’s book. You know, Western uh—diseases of civilization.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s all in the environment.

Dr. Jack Kruse: And just for disease, see these guys that look like the Donna__ 70 years old.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Jack Kruse: You know what the difference is my friend?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: What’s outside—

Dr. Jack Kruse: They’re in the natural environment. And we __ and we think that’s the same. And it—it’s that simple. Remember, when we talk about earlier about the tree. I said to you, “Would the tree grow with the top covered?” And you got it immediately.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Jack Kruse: Hopefully the people listening just got it. Well, what am I saying to you? The beliefs that we have in nutrition, I don’t believe anything that’s published in nutrition today. Why? Coz it’s never been studied the right way.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So how are you applying it? How are you eating? So walk me through that. I know you mention as a matter as much. So give me the run down, right  now. It’s gonna be—

Dr. Jack Kruse: First, simple—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Spring, summer—more carbs now?

Dr. Jack Kruse: Yeah. Yeah. And it’s very simple.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: What  is breakfast like?
Dr. Jack Kruse: Eat what grows in your environment. Eat what grows in your environment. Let me explain this to you coz this is so important.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jack Kruse: What is the entire food that this planet is built on, my friend? It’s called


Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Jack Kruse: Okay. The entire food web. That means when you talk about food, you need to understand light. So can you eat a pineapple uh—in_ Gourmet right now? The answer is, “Yeah, you can.” You go to whole foods and get it. But what is interesting about that? The answer is, “No.” You can’t do that coz it never grows. Therefore, when you’re a stupid, idiot that feeds the pineapple at the 4th latitude, even in May, you’ve created a mismatch. You’ve created a gut problem. You’ve created a mitochondrial problem.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Jack Kruse: And you don’t think it’s a big deal. Why? Coz you don’t understand how photosynthesis links to those electrons. So you’re at the ground state and this state and what is your body designed to do? Capture that. Well, if you do that, your respiratory proteins are stretched out, you can’t capture that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So what does that look like for you? So you’re saying lower carb, higher fat?

Dr. Jack Kruse: I’m not saying that at all.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay.

Dr. Jack Kruse: I’m saying your environment dictates what you eat.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So let’s go for some of the examples. Go ahead, yeah.

Dr. Jack Kruse: For example, I’m not—uh—say in December, gonna eat kumquats. I’m not gonna eat pineapple.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Jack Kruse: I’m not gonna eat coconut. I happen to live at a latitude where those things are—are present. 28th latitude is the most that you can get. Uhm—so what I usually do in the winter time, I’m just like the—I’m going to be uh—ketotic and I’m gonna drink more water and gonna be more connected to cold and the light environment around me. So I’m gonna be pretty naked a—a lot of the year.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Nice.

Dr. Jack Kruse: With my shoes off in the backyard when it’s like 30° and 50° here. Now what happens in the summer time? In the summer time, all—my carbs increase all the way up to June 21st. Why? That’s the summer equivalence.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jack Kruse: When do they start to decline? From that time—the time that I eat no carbs, the only time I eat no carbs is for about two weeks before and after December 21st.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it. So right now, you’re  on higher carb cycling?

Dr. Jack Kruse: Correct.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay. Good. Higher carb right now and then fat—is that pretty high as well?

Dr. Jack Kruse: Uh—I wouldn’t say pretty high coz you know you don’t need a ton of fat in the summer time when you live in 28th latitude. Remember what I told you before about the Maasai? Got it?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jack Kruse: It—it’s—it’s that why I said, the paradigm that you believe in and I’m glad that when your non verbal communication talking to me is very interesting coz when I say something, I know that you’re like, “Man, I don’t know If I’m buying that.” That’s—that’s the belief system that he got.  He have to realize that when you understand what I’m saying, this seasonal approach, it is linked to photosynthesis. And every place on this planet, it is tied to that. Just—you have to change that system doesn’t mean we can do it. You know, it is like we can do it but should we do it? That’s the asked question we ask people. And that’s not the question that most people do.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So how do you tie in cold? How you cut tie in the cold thermogenesis with the sun and with the—with the UV? Like how do you package this all together?

Dr. Jack Kruse: Yeah. I’ll try to make it as simple for you as possible. The easiest way is to understand what this cold do. It condenses the respiratory proteins so that means it bring it  closer together. Anytime they come closer together it makes electron toning easier. So eve in if you have fewer electrons, or fewer higher power electrons, the fact that they are closer, they are more energy-efficient. So can you be more energy-efficient doing it? Yes and it turns out when you’re energy-efficient closer together, that means you release more free heat. When you release more free heat from mitochondria, what does that do to the water around it? It heats it up. What happens to water when it’s heated? It shrinks. That’s how the respiratory proteins come together. You don’t put water and stick them in your fridge. Right now, what will happen in two hours?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Jack Kruse: It flows because water is different than just about any other liquid in this planet. Thermodynamically, it expands when it cools and it shrinks when it’s heated. But we don’t realize the best huge reason why the mitochondria recede. Then I want you to look at something else, Justin. I want you to think about this. What is the basic plan for uhm—for photosynthesis? CO2 + water and sunlight makes sugar.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Jack Kruse: You know what the mitochondria does? It reverses that equation. It takes glucose, makes CO2 and makes water.  How do you like that?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting.

Dr. Jack Kruse: Both of them are endosymbiotic bacteria that we have figured out. IN other words, this is the yin and this is the yang.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hmm.

Dr. Jack Kruse: So a mitochondria can only work and this is working right. So let’s go back to your original question. You want to jump straight to every functional doctors and I said, “I’m not letting you do it.”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hahaha—

Dr. Jack Kruse: It’s the biggest mistake you all make—everytime. And you need to understand why my perspective is what it is and when you do, you start go get all, “Hmm.” So for example, I’ll give you another good one. I don’t know where you’re located but just—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’m in Austin, Texas. Somewhere in the nice, lower latitude.

Dr. Jack Kruse: Yeah. You’re close to me as well.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Are you in Nashville or New Orleans?

Dr. Jack Kruse: I’m in New Orleans.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: New Orleans. Okay. New Orleans. So uh—the issue—the issue is if you live in Austin, say you’re a computer programmer and you’re inside in the blue light all day. So you’re giving yourself a chronic summer time signal, okay. And say you eat carbohydrates 24/7. What do you think the result will be? You’re gonna get just about every disease  on the planet. What the problem is that we believe the food is what caused it. What we don’t realize is that the blue light is what really cause all the changes and it stretched out the respiratory proteins because of the mitochondrial work. So when you give somebody prescription who does that—ketosis. It helps things. And what does ketosis do? It t__things down a little bit not enough. And those people staying in ketosis diet kinda ketosis is a bad thing to be in because you never get autophagy.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Jack Kruse: In other words you never get to recycle your new mitochondria. The key thing with our bodies—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: How about if you eat and fast, though. If you combine some minimum fasting in there, couldn’t you increase the autophagy?

Dr. Jack Kruse: __the key things to do. But what happens like when you follow my leptin reset.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jack Kruse: What you will find is people who have to eat like six times a day, wind up finding out that in 6 weeks, they can eat 3x a day and then eventually when they do long enough, you’re only gonna eat once a day. I only need once a day. That’s it. And it’s usually at the 4-6 window, okay? Now in the beginning, when I started all these, I didn’t have to do it. I had to do it differently. Why?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jack Kruse: Because my Ferrari was a Nissan Central blowing black smoke.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it.

Dr. Jack Kruse: See how the pieces fit together?  They’re all dynamic and you know, I think in both our paradigm, see how we’re trained is we don’t realize that it’s that dynamic. You know, we think it’s more static and I think it makes more sense to our brain to think about that way coz it’s easier to understand but I don’t buy that. And I don’t buy that now because I become a mitochondria. I become that person that is understanding nature through that organelle and that organelle was the key to making understanding food differently because  I began to look at food in terms of chlorophyll A and chlorophyll B. In terms of an exciton, what an exciton is, how it’s made, how seed get its basic energy. Food is basically light energy. It’s no different in that the key to deciphering I think to understand, we need the resetic code. And that resetic code is built into the latitude, altitude and population that is where we are. That—that is actually how the food chain is optimized for this planet. That’s the reason why people around the equator can eat a much higher carbohydrate diet and not get any problems with it. It’s also the reason why the Inuit diet primed in1950 is highly ketotic because they were never around, UVA or UVB light except for 3-4 months out of a year.  So most people don’t realize that vitamin D foods, there’s only two. It’s uh—its’ seafood and mushrooms. Well guess what? That’s a big staple that made in the Inuit diet. But to get the vitamin D you need, you gotta eat the eyeballs and you gotta eat the skin of the fish. Well the Inuit do that. That’s the reason why they’re the indigenous people that did well.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So when you’re eating at 4 pm at 4 PM to 6 PM window, are you still getting adequate calories during that two-hour time period? And I know it’s not what you’re eating—

Dr. Jack Kruse: I’m trying to think what I eat for dinner last night. Uhm—Oh, I know what I had. I had a—I had beets that were baked and I took the uh—you know the greens off the least—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jack Kruse: And—and cook them in uh—butter. Put some—some uh—spices like I think I put basil, oregano, salt and pepper and turmeric. And I had sausages, pork sausages. Uhm—and pork is much bigger part of my diet time of year because you need the cysteine content because of sunlight. And if you wanna know why I’m not gonna give in to it, I got a blog called energyandepigenetics12, cysteine is the rarest amino acid. It’s the one that glutathione is made out of.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Huge. Yup.

Dr. Jack Kruse. So you have to know that when you live in a strong solar environment, you wanna have a little bit more sulfur in your diet. And—and it turns out that sulfur—sulfate cholesterol, sulfate in vitamin D3 is the key to high solar environment and turns the skin thickness, you know, it goes back to the solar callus that you and I talked about.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jack Kruse: You know in the past, all these stuff is yoke together.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And I think people do vitamin or do some UV exposure and made it kinda like chronic uhm—hemochromatosis. The elevated iron levels, very high ferratin 3-400 levels and they’ve seen their ferritin levels drop. Do you see that as well clinically?

Dr. Jack Kruse: Yeah. I mean you can see a variety of different things but here’s the funny thing. If you really, really pay attention—This to me is one of the most interesting things that happened in the last 2-3 years. Well hospitals are now starting to look at zip codes.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhm.

Dr. Jack Kruse: In terms of diagnosis codes, so we in medicine are now seeing some very interesting trends. There were certain diseases tend to show up more in certain zip codes and no one in epidemia kinda knows why and I think I kinda figure it out that it has to do with the local environment. The non-native EMF in different environments is highly variable. So say when you’re using first and I just said before, you may find one person have from one part of town have a very variable response compared to somebody else. And you’re gonna say, “Oh, wait a minute, I’m at uh—28 latitude, it shouldn’t be like this.” Well I’ll give you, for example, I happen to have a friend who lives in Austin, who lives around that _ place and he just recently moved somewhere else. His results have been—radically different. In the nude part of Austin__ I told him I give him a couple of ideas to what to check out. He winded buying uh—an acoustimeter and he wound up buying uh—buying a flicker uh—uh monitor and he found out that the lights in his new neighborhood at night time had a much higher flicker effect and that was the cause of his problems. Actually  the simple thing is when we go out at night, make sure most of your skin is covered and make sure your eyes are protected. And flicker is really hard to protect yourself from. I told them because you move from the low flick environment to a high flick environment, and he found out that Austin had just changed the lights and the street in his neighborhood like three months before he was there.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it. Interesting. And what do you think about UV and thyroid? Is there any specific dose of UV—good. So let’s hear it.

Dr. Jack Kruse: Well hypothyroid—hypothyroidism is uh—is absolutely deficiency.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: How does it affect reverse T3, though, and our T3 and the deactivation of the thyroid?

Dr. Jack Kruse: Reverse T3 is leptin resistant. Remember what I told you about the semi conductive circuit. The retina, SCN and leptin receptor. It’s gotta work properly. You turn the sun, once the leptin receptor is properly turned on, you don’t make any reverse T3. Everything goes T3. Because what is T3? It’s thermogenic and makes—and releases heat from the mitochondria than shrinks water.  All—all these things I gave you already. It’s all there. The key thing is when the semi conductive circuit’s broken, that’s what causes disrupt and that’s why reverse T3 goes up and that’s why the  optic resistance functionally is a light-mediated problem.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Now I also heard you talk about leptin resistance from using

 hCG to modulate leptin resistance as well.

Dr. Jack Kruse: You can. And that—that is one of things I did a long time ago before I realize  how the physics of  the organism truly works.  And I called that one of my you know, seminal biohacks to figure out.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jack Kruse: Why this work. Because you know, most allophatic doctors I’ll be the first one to be honest with you—I thought 15 years ago,  that hCG  was a bunch of horse shit.  And then when I started to learn about this intricate brain circuits, I started to realize, actually, there is a role for this. And actually is uncovering—actually how this whole system really works. And the problem is I think the practitioners at UJCG don’t realize that it’s—it’s kinda like rhodiola for adrenal fatigue. It works while you use it but as soon as you take__ you don’t realize that you have to have the light change with it. It’s an epic fail. It’s great for clinicians.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Jack Kruse: Coz it’s like uh—it’s what I called uh—Uhm—but you cannot sustain weight loss using hCG until you fix the light environment that makes it—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So you gotta get the light and the EMF dialed in. That totally makes sense. And then you mention some stuff about the MFL a little bit earlier. What’s your take on this uh– TCE the Traumatic Chronic Encephalopathy—the Will Smith movie.

Dr. Jack Kruse: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: What’s your take on that as a neurosurgeon? What  do you see coming into your clinic? And would you let your kid play football?

Dr. Jack Kruse: Read my card wall. It says all. The implications—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We’ll link to it. What’s the reader’s digest version, though?

Dr. Jack Kruse: Readers digest version: Anything that disrupts electron change transport mitochondria is something you need to stay away from. And what happens is this kid started off when they’re younger and you have to realize the more damage they have when they’re younger, the worst it is when they get older. Uhm—in terms of what I let my kids play, uh—knowing what I know now, No. I wouldn’t let them play soccer, I wouldn’t let them play hokey, I wouldn’t let them play football. Uh—but I would let them play—like if they didn’t play when they were younger and they wanted to play like uh, say late in high school or college, I personally think that’s the reason why if you think about—coz you know we got the NFL draft last week. It’s kinda some interesting thing. I looked at it like this kid from Washington University. I want you to think about this is gonna be really interesting for you. You know, John Ross ran the fastest 40—He run 40.20 but when he run it, he actually pulled uh_ and he didn’t run the second one. He was inside the RCA Dome in Indianapolis under Xeon blue light that was not run by a DCA converter. It was run by the AC current. So he was set up that the flicker effect of those lights are ridiculous. But he still run that time. I told you, if you can run that fast, your redox is good. But I want you to think about where he originally lived. He lived in Los Angeles.  He used to plant Snoop Dogg’s uh team when he was a young kid. And Snoop Dog said, “This kid was the faster kid ever.” So I want you to think. Now, when he went to Washington at the 45th latitude, that’s where he went—the University of Washington. He tore ACL’s and they repair them and obviously he’s doing pretty good. Uhm—but if you’re in NFL asking me the question you just asked, would you draft John Ross knowing that he’s gonna have a 10 or 15 year career? The answer is, “No, I would not.” But will he be good the first 5 years of his career? The answer is, “Yes.” If you have to beat the Seattle Seahawks, the New England Patriots, the answer is, “No” because they played at a high latitude. If you were the Miami Dolphins, the Tennessee Titans, the Houston Texans, the San Diego Chargers, my answer would be, “Yes.” Now I’m gonna tell you why I said that, when you get off this podcast, I want you to open up the google box.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jack Kruse:  And look at the top 20 rushers in the NFL history, you know what you’re gonna notice about 19 out of 20?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Throughout south

Dr. Jack Kruse: The south east of the United States. Everybody knows the most famous guy, Emmit Smith.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Emmit Smith.

Dr. Jack Kruse: You know where he’s from?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: From Florida. He went to University of Florida, so probably Florida area.

Dr. Jack Kruse: Pensacola right on the gulf of Mexico.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Florida. Yeah.

Dr. Jack Kruse: Okay.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it.

Dr. Jack Kruse: Gulf of Mexico happens to be one of the best places to grow up. Why? 600 miles from Pensacola. Do you know what’s in the the bottom of the gulf?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: What?

Dr. Jack Kruse: A hole when an asteroid hit 65 million years ago. And do you know where— where you came from? You came from that change. Coz what’s out there? Dinosaurs. What came? The age of mammals. What—what is different? Mitochondria. See that? You’re back to the same story again. And you didn’t even realize it. The only guy in the top 20 list that breaks the rules is John Riggins.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: How about Jim Brown, though? Didn’t he play for the Browns? That’s Cleveland.

Dr. Jack Kruse: Played for the browns but where was he originally from?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhm he went to Syracuse, too.

Dr. Jack Kruse: Yup, Syracuse. But what time did he—was in college? Played for in his early 50’s.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. 57, first round draft pick.

Dr. Jack Kruse: Let me ask you a question. Was there uh—  a google then that you come in to do what we’re doing now? Or is he outside riding his bike, playing ball in the sun?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. He’s from Georgia originally, so yeah.

Dr. Jack Kruse: There you go. See that?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Pretty shocking. He was north. He was up north for a good 15 years. That’s still pretty good.

Dr. Jack Kruse: And you know, he played how long, my friend?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 10—

Dr. Jack Kruse: 19 years.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: But for a running back, that’s pretty good, though.

Dr. Jack Kruse: Was he smart to bail when he bail?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, yeah. Definitely smart.

Dr. Jack Kruse: Well, here’s the point that I’m trying to make to you. We can have this conversation. Most people who are sports fans never even think about these things. So far, I’d give you another, for example, uh—Well I’m trying to give you a really controversial one. I’m talking about Junior Seau. You know he comes from—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, yeah.

Dr. Jack Kruse: middle of the Pacific Ocean. He played in San Diego. He was probably the dominant—dominant line backer, right, of his time. When did he start going south? When he last San Diego.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Patriots.

Dr. Jack Kruse: Everybody knows what happens after. He wanted to kill himself. And why is that the case? Where do—where do humans vary in mitochondria? Here in their heart. What is the other thing that we know about NFL players? Their cardiac longevity also is in_. See? The thing is the way mitochondria work is very similar to __. Those guys are really good early in their career but they burn out fast. That’s what we call__.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jack Kruse: What is—what are the stars in the world that live the longest? It’s red giants.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Jack Kruse:  You think about all the things that earlier about cytochrome C oxidates, proteins and red light force. And what I—we just say about blue light? Blue makes you burn and live faster. It speeds time up. Red slows time down. So does purple. And the reason why purple works is because purple electrons actually gets sliced by this slicer in the mitochondria called the Q cycle. And the Q cycle is run by cholines and Q10. One of the biggest functions of the  Q cycle is to take a highly excited electron and turn it into light frequencies in the red light. So what do we do with purple light? You’re slowing it down and then turning we’re turning it into red light for cytochrome C oxidates, which is the third—uh—the third cytochrome. And what does cytochrome do? It makes more ATP. We’re back to the story we started. 2/3 vs. 1/3

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 1/3, right.

Dr. Jack Kruse: That’s the reason why UV light isn’t toxic. That’s the reason why dermatologist and your question before, you asked me I think three times about collagen.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jack Kruse: Now you know the reason why. Because the reason that he got this belief, the reason why dermatologist got its belief because they don’t understand how light works. The physics of organisms, the physics of cells, what you understand it. Makes sense. And I’m sure—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: But you’re also not getting burned either. You built up that solar callus—

Dr. Jack Kruse: I don’t care if I get burned. I don’t care if I get burned.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Really?

Dr. Jack Kruse: I don’t. I could care less.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay.

Dr. Jack Kruse: And here’s the uh—here’s the—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: But you have a nice thick solar callus now, though. So you built that thing up.

Dr. Jack Kruse: I know. But you know, next week I’m getting ready to go to Mexico. So the sun is already—probably like July—June and July is strong down there. So from that standpoint, I don’t really worry about it. Uh—but I’m not gonna tell you if why I’d be going to the equator and stay up for 12 hours a day. I know. Obviously, I wouldn’t do something like that. But once you do this long enough, it becomes pretty obvious and intuitive how long you need to be out there.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Jack Kruse: And why you start seeing improvements in your own redox potential. There’s labs I told you. You don’t have to be a doctor to figure this out. You can actually look at it yourself and go through it and say, “This makes sense.”  I mean one of the easiest things I tell people, if you’re anemic, you need to get out on the sun. And you know, how many times do you hear about the B12 and the D3 story from functional docs. They have no idea anybody who’s B12 deficient is light deficient. They have solar deficient. They’re missing UV and IR light. They’re missing purple and red light. And what’s the first thing that they do? They reach for the pill. And I’m like—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So if you’re a vegetarian, you’re not eating, you’re not consuming B12, if you’re just getting sunlight, would that be enough to replete that macrocytic anemia?

Dr. Jack Kruse: Probably not. Because you know, and the reason I say that uh it’s kinda interesting. Take a look at where vegetarians tend to live. And the best country to go for that is India. If you draw a line in India.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jack Kruse: Right to the middle and below it is all the vegetarians and above it is all the meat eaters.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Jack Kruse: What’s the difference? The light. The light vegetarians get light in India coz they’re always in strong light cycle.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm. Interesting.

Dr. Jack Kruse: And guess what happens in the north part, up by the Himalayan Mountains? They’re up at 29,000 feet. Why are all the_ is dark skinned? Now you know the reason why. Because they’re getting more UV light even though they are at a higher latitude because their altitude is high and what else is the benefit? No people are there. Why? Because the mountains are huge.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Jack Kruse: See, all the things we talked about, when you start thinking about it, you start going, “Damn, I actually never have thought about this.” And I told people this all the time. Remember the terminal electron receptor for mitochondria’s oxygen. How do you make oxygen? UV lights hit ozone and you make O2. UV lights make oxygen. And you don’t even think about it. But you have this thing, “Oh, I can’t go outside coz UV light is bad for me.” Why? It’s what’s put up in your head by your mother, your doctor, or somebody else. That’s the reason why you feel that way. For me, the strong UV light usually mean that you’re gonna have pretty good O2 and anytime you have O2, O2 is you’re thermal electron receptor.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey, Jack, I lost you there.

Dr. Jack Kruse: Yeah. And you went totally dead you just—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I know. I know.

Dr. Jack Kruse: You just froze.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: No problem. I’ll add this to it. We’ll wrap up here. I’m gonna recording again. Right. Go ahead. So you we’re saying there before we were cut off.

Dr. Jack Kruse: I don’t know what I was saying. Uh—Uh—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So you were talking about the redox—

Dr. Jack Kruse: Oh, yeah. The redox potential is the key to healthy living. The more negative charge you have in your body, you’re better off if you do.
The fastest way you develop net negative charge is realizing that you have to have electrons to be programmed by somebody. And the more electrons that you can contain, the better you are. That’s the reason why the density of the water at the pools is much higher and colder because there’s more electrons in it. That’s the reason why DHA and—and the fish comes from colder—colder water. So if you understand this, basically, you just need to get your shoes off, take as much cold off as you’ve had or go to these clothes that they now make anything that penetration of UV and ion light. You know I think one of them is called__ That’s what I would use. Uhm—so that you can actually be naked without being naked when you’re outside no matter where you are. And this is fundamentally why just about every research study you read about vacation uh—told you that you spend 7 days in a strong light environment, everything gets better, your diet, your weight and everybody says it’s just relaxation. No, it’s a lot more than just relaxation. It’s about balancing the—the vagal motor system and the periventricular nucleus through light assimilation through the skin and your eye.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent. I appreciate that. And if you’re stuck in a dessert island, what would be the one supplement you can bring with you outside of the sun?

Dr. Jack Kruse: Water.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Water. Okay. I appreciate that. Any last words here? You wanna  put out there for the listeners?

Dr. Jack Kruse: I just tell you that keep your mind open like a parachute. The thing is that made me say some things that you heard here today that are very counterintuitive to your beliefs, concepts. But remember, beliefs and paradigms all they are is precepts to the truth. The truth is always a moving__ of approximations. And the truth is designed to evolve so what maybe true today we might found out tomorrow is not so true uh—and the best way for us to define these things are is to observe nature in her form. She always morphs. You know the nature, the—the environment that we have in the United States in 1900, 1930’s in not applicable to 2017 anymore. And if you don’t believe me just go over your grandmother’s house and ask for how many people she knew who had Alzheimer’s disease or Parkinson’s disease when she was 6 years old. See these diseases came out of nowhere, same thing with autism. Autism is a mitochondrial disease. That’s where it comes from. It comes from the modern environment that we built in. We’re not cognizant enough and when we hear that the first time, it shocks you and it shouldn’t shock you. It’s the reason why in  1900, colon cancer is the 37th leading cause of cancer and today it’s number 2. Did all of a sudden our genes change in 5 generations for a lot of that to occur? No, the answer is not. But change the amount of assimilation of that energy in mitochondria is what changed the gene. That’s the key. There’s 2 genomes in us the one that’s most important is the mitochondria. Become a mitochondria then you’ll be a lot better, folks.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Dr. Jack Kruse, I appreciate it.

Dr. Jack Kruse: Alright. Take care, man.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You too, Jack. Take care. Bye.



Can you supplement Sunlight?


Dr. Tim Jackson – Mitochondrial dysfunction, mold and MTHFR solutions – Podcast #124

Dr. Justin Marchegiani and Dr. Tim Jackson dive into a stimulating discussion about mitochondria, the enzyme MTHFR, genetic testing, and mycotoxin. Join them and pick up some valuable information as Dr. Tim Jackson shares his knowledge and expertise on gene SNPs, factors that affect them, the supplements he recommends, as well as the approach he implements to create a positive impact on someone’s health. 

Learn about the mitochondria’s function and discover its connection to the Kreb’s cycle and electron transport chain, both of which are naturally occurring chemical reactions in our bodies. Know and understand the different mitochondria-related issues like infections, low iron and low B vitamins. Get valuable insight on how these issues are tested, including the diet, nutrients and supplements to support the mitochondria. And lastly, gain helpful information about mycotoxin and find out different ways to prevent and get rid of them.

 In this episode, we cover:

4:11   Mitochondria

15:20   Bacterial infections

21:50   Iron and B12 issues

27:10   Glutathione

35:41   Gene SNPs (MTHFR, APO, PON1)

49:13   Mycotoxins








Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey there! It’s  Dr. Justin Marchegiani. We got Dr. Tim Jackson back on the show. Really uh, excited to dig in to some MTHFR, some genetic testing. Maybe we’ll even talk about some mycotoxins. Who knows if we’ll have enough time to get it all. Doctor Tim, how we doing today?

Dr. Tim Jackson: I’m doing great, Evan Justin. How you doing’ sir?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wonderful, wonderful, man. Glad that we’re in touch and your back on the show.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah, it’s fine. It should be a good time today.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well let’s dig in, man. What’s new on your radar and functional medicine land?

Dr. Tim Jackson: You know, I’ve just been delving deeper and deeper into mitochondria. And you know- I am always up for myself whether through research, dealing with clients and patients. You know, what I can do to make everything else work better. And you know- almost always I find myself saying, “Well, make mitochondria work better.” And  so, looking at different therapies to, you know- protect mitochondria, to rehabilitate the cell membrane, uhm to make sure it has no optimal fatty acid composition-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm

Dr. Tim Jackson: To make sure environmental toxic load is reduced as much as possible so that the Krebs in TCA cycle can go on. And in making sure the two rate-limiting factors oxygen and ubiquinol or CoQ10 are present in adequate amounts. Uhm- one just quick aside, is that even low-level sleep apnea will affect your mitochondria negatively.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting. Alright. So we need oxygen. Sleep apnea is basically that delay where you just stop breathing while sleeping. And with sleep apnea, typically inflammations gonna be driving that. Is that correct?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah. Exactly, exactly. And it’s a self perpetuating type cycle where inflammation driving it want that- wants that inflammation gets going uhm- it has a self-perpetuating mechanism especially- I know this is a $64,000 word- cytokine or inflammatory molecules-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Tim Jackson: interlude six.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So true coz I notice every now and then I’ll have like a little sleep apnea episode like where I wake just kinda like gasping for air.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Uh-hmm

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And it’s typically at nights where I have like a glass of wine or maybe have something I shouldn’t have. I noticed that food allergen response really has an effect on my airway and I wake up with a hypoxic type of you know, gasping episode. So I know that inflammation and even food allergens can be a subtle you know, causative factor for that inflammation.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Right. Exactly. Anything that uhm- creates inflammation you know or contribute to the burns and turns out there, but what we called that, our static load-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, stress bucket

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah- your stress bucket, exactly.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Bingo.

Dr. Tim Jackson: And so you know, we might be someone that we you know, label as a hothead or they can’t tolerate stress. They may have a ton of physiological imbalances and all their ATP energy being diverted to that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. I always tell patients like yeah, physical, chemical, and emotional stressors. Physical could be too much or too little exercise. It could be chronic pain from an injury. You also have the chemical stressors, whether it’s food or infections or metals, or mold, or food allergens, or low stomach acid or etc. And then you have obviously, the emotional stress- relationships, finances, uhm- family, work. All of those stressors are like a little ball that go into that stress bucket. When that bucket starts overflow, that’s where your kinda allostatic is tapped out. And that’s where symptoms tend to tend to occur. And then typically allostatic, allopathic medical world, symptoms =  drug prescriptions. Then drug prescriptions have side effects, which cause more symptoms. So you’re in this vicious cycle where medicine actually tries to solve allostatic load problems or stress bucket problems by actually giving you more stress. And so in functional medicine world, we’re trying to actually take those stress balls out of the bucket, right?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Right. Exactly. The more stressors that we can take uhm- off our bucket, you know- we wanna try and eliminate as many stressors humanly possible. Uhm- and the ones that we can’t completely eliminate, we wanna certainly mitigate as much as possible.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it. And let’s go back into the mitochondria because basically the mitochondria is kinda the powerhouse of ourselves. It’s- you have what’s called the Krebs cycle, which is part of the mitochondria we you’re generating ATP, you’re generating these uhm- reducing agents call FADH 2 and NADH. And you’re basically grabbing hydrogen molecules-these electron to then bring those over to the electron transport chain so we can generate more energy. Would you mind talking more about the mitochondria and just how it connects into the Krebs cycle, the electron transport chain, and even uh, even glycolysis, too?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah. So when we think about mitochondria, we always talk about, “Oh, those are batteries of the cells”. They provide your energy source, your energy currency, the ATP. But what we’ve learned in the past 10 years is that they do so much more than that. Uhm, I actually have a 400 and something page e-book on mitochondria.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow

Dr. Tim Jackson: -that goes into details. And if, like I said it’s one of those dots that you know, you can connect pretty much every illness out there uhm- to some degree to mitochondrial dysfunction. And producing energy you know, fats, carbs, proteins, get broken down and go into the energy producing, the Krebs cycle. And uhm- you get oxy dephosphorylation and fatty acid burning in the mitochondria. But mitochondria- some of the other roles that they participate in, one is self sensing and signaling. So uhm- you know, controlling how they’ll wind up in the age of extracellular matrix for that little area that surround the groups of cells. Uhm, it’s important for growth factor uhm- sensing, uhm- immune function because a lot of times what happens is you know, people may test the account or the amount of immune cells that they don’t pass the activity of them. And a lot of our means, those require a lot of ATP. And uh, your immune function may not be working very well because you don’t have enough energy to heal. Healing takes a ton of energy. And so you know, if we have a lot of other stressors, the ATP or the energy currency is gonna be going down that pathway.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting. Now, how does the electron transport chain and the Krebs cycle connect in with the mitochondria?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah. So the mitochondria have an inner mitochondrial membrane and an outer mitochondrial membrane. And you have certain fatty acids in on those membranes. And what happens is that we inherit our mitochondrial DNA from our mom and you can have mutations in mitochondrial DNA. But more often, you have what we call mitochondriopathies, which is just a fancy term for damaged mitochondria.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Tim Jackson: And so anything that damages the mitochondria, and the most common things are environmental pollutants, persistent organic pollutants-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.

Dr. Tim Jackson: -and disrupting chemicals. Or we can have what Dr. Alex Vasquez calls uhm- a microbial mitochondriopathy.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmm

Dr. Tim Jackson: So you have an infection, maybe you go through a period of stress, a virus gets reactivated. Well, that inflammatory cascade that’s produced, even if you don’t know the name, you felt it before, that’s called a cytokine storm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Tim Jackson: And those inflammant there’s prone, inflammatory cytokines and anti-inflammatory cytokines. And when you have a lot of stealth pathogens or microbes and bugs build up in your body uh, there’s a constant low-grade level of inflammation. And our mitochondria are extremely susceptible to free radical damage. And that’s important point because the two antioxidants that we need to protect us or protect our mitochondria are glutathione which you know, we both love-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah

Dr. Tim Jackson: And you and superoxide dismutase. So if you have- I know you mentioned uhm you know, genetic- genetic testing but if you have certain uhm- polymorphisms which is like a minor version of a mutation, you may not make enough glutathione superoxide dismutase, or you may not recycle them to the reduced state which is how our body needs to use them. So uh, that’s incredibly uh, important because like I said, the mitochondria are very susceptible to oxidative damage, and if you don’t have those two antioxidants there to protect it, uhm- it’s really open to enemy fire.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally makes sense. And so, I’m just kinda comin’ back here for the energy production part. So part of the ATP part is, is through the uh, Krebs cycle as well as the electron transport chain, right?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah. Exactly. So electron transport chain is five complexes. And they basically play hot potato-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah

Dr. Tim Jackson: -with electrons. And uh, an important point for people to understand here is that, this is really biophysically driven more than biochemically driven. And what I mean by that is that your body uses photons and protons uhm- and light to uhm- create energy and increase ATP in the mitochondria. And at any time we can uh, tweak or uh, alter biophysical status of the cell or cellular machinery, then we can control multiple biochemical reactions.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it. And how about the Krebs cycle, as well? Krebs Cycle’s the same thing. We’re producing all these reducing agents to help basically bring those electrons into the electron transport chain, so they can be kinda tossed back and forth, right?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah. Exactly. So you know, protein, carbs, and fats get broken down into a single way so they can go into the Krebs cycle. And uhm- one other thing that’s uh- it’s just on the side you know, we talked about L- carnitine and you know, the benefit to have of carnitine.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes

Dr. Tim Jackson: Well, it transports fatty acid from the cell, the cytoplasm of cell into the mitochondria where you can uhm- burn fat and through process of beta


Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Tim Jackson: So if you’re deficient in L-carnitine, uhm- you’ll certainly be fatigued because you won’t be able to burn fatty acids.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I love it. And that’s called the carnitine shuttle. And I appreciate, your- your biochem background. You got a Biochem degree from NC State, right?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Uhm – NC State, definitely not. Wake Forest, the Wake Forest.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wake Forest. The Wake Forest, okay. Got it. Very cool. Oh, I appreciate Biochem. Brings me back to my undergrad days. I love it. The carnitine shuttle’s so important because basically your body is using carnitine, which is made from two amino acids, methionine and lysine. And it basically shuttles fat into the mitochondria so the fat can be burned up through that betaoxidiation pathway. Now, in my Biochem textbook that I have on the- the shelf behind me here, it was really interesting coz it even said in the biochem textbook that these amino acids methionine and lysine could be deficient in a vegetarian-based diet. So I’m like, this is quite interesting coz the sulfur amino acids are harder to get in these vegetarian diets. So really important. I see a lot of my sicker patients, especially faced with mitochondrial issues, aren’t getting the right fats, aren’t getting the right enough of these high quality sulfur amino acids, especially the ones that may include glutathione, glycine, glutamine, cysteine. And you mentioned earlier that you have to build that membrane, too which we know that the high-quality good saturated fats are gonna be building blocks. So I went off on a tear there but fats, amino acids, and the amino acids for glutathione, which all play into this whole mitochondrial thing, right?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Right. Exactly. So uhm- you know, we can burn uhm- you know, fat and protein. Uhm- you know, the carb advocates say you know, “we have to have you know, glucose or sugar.” But you know, people in the biochemistry, that’s not true. But yet, different environmental toxic can- and nutrient deficiencies can basically block the conversion of one metabolite of the Krebs cycle to another. So-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Tim Jackson: So you know, you have uhm- a few CoA, pyruvates, all those type of molecules malatase or malate. And the different compounds, metabolites like oxalites, etc. The enzymes that convert them may be impacted negatively by environmental toxicity.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes. Totally. And we need all these various nutrients to pump that Krebs cycle up. I mean, some of my, some of the nutrients that I put in my mitochondrial support, called mitochondrial synergy, is obviously the B vitamins are really important, L-carnitine as we already mentioned is really important. I also like Creatine.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I like Alpha Lipoic acid, I like a lot of the Krebs cycle intermediary nutrients like uhm, malic acid, succinic acid, uh the-

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah. Malic acid is good for aluminum detox as well.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, very cool. Also, I do a little Resveratrol-

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -which we know is really good for the electron transport chain and then uhm Alpha Lipoic acid even some Curcumin as well.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Oh, yeah. Curcumin is one of my go to- probably my first go to supplement for mitochondrial help. And it’s more of an indirect effect where it turned down the volume on enough kappa beta.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhm

Dr. Tim Jackson: Which is the uh, molecule coding or trying to read our pro-inflammatory genes.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting. So if we we’re trying to get someone’s diet dialed in, what would that diet look like to that average patient?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Uhm- You know, I’m gonna tell people to avoid gluten and dairy in general. Some people they get stressed out over what they’re gonna eat and so I don’t focus too much on the gluten cross-reactive foods. Uhm- but I try to restore and calm down inflammation in the gut lining first and repair the tight gap junction in the microvilli. And uh, I use the product- And again, I’m not connected to this product, but restore, And it works really well in terms of healing the gut lining, but also helping to increase your overall micro biodiversity. And you know, we don’t typically think about the gut mitochondria together, but particular compounds that are released from bacteria in the gut. One is very inflammatory and it’s called lipopolysaccharide.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Tim Jackson: And it increases systemic inflammation greatly. And it turned on those inflammatory genes. So curcumin goes in, and it says, “Nope, must turn that knob back down.” And that’s why I like Curcumin coz it works on so many different levels of law as well as having antimicrobial properties.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: What are the big bacterial infections that you’re seeing in your clinic that are driving up the LPS? One of the things I’m seeing with under specific stool test, we’re seeing a lot of H pylori. I’m seeing a lot of Citrobacter, a lot of Pseudomonas aeruginosa.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yes.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: A lot of Klebsiella. Those are the big things that I’m seeing. What are you seeing, Doc?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Those are the exact same ones that I’m seeing. I’d also add in BlastocysticHominis.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, yup. Parasite for sure. Yup.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah and uhm- you know, I’d do the PCR testing which I’d have good results with.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Which one? GI map?

Dr. Tim Jackson: It’s uh, the DRG labs.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I use both. I run them both side-by-side.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah. And uhm- you know, I wasn’t happy when Genova merged with MetaMetrics and they changed one of their pages.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Terrible.

Dr. Tim Jackson: And you know, the price is pretty high, but I like DRG labs. I think it’s you know, more economical. Uhm-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: The problem with that is-

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yes, those are the common infections that I’m seeing.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Tim Jackson: You know, along with of course, you know, Candida. But one important point to kinda make about gut health is that one thing I see people forgetting is that they don’t reboot their secretory IGA.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.

Dr. Tim Jackson: And that’s the imm- mucosal immune system and the gut lining, the lining of the lung, the nasal passages, etc. And if you just go in, and kill off these pathogens are uhm- bad bacteria, they’re gonna come back if you don’t create an environment that is not conducive to their living.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it. And you’re doing uh- increase sacamai polarity to help bring up the IGA post uh- infection removal?

Dr. Tim Jackson: I don’t anymore. Occasionally, I do uhm- actually a chiropractor colleague showed me a study that look at those with leaky gut, and you know- some type or some level of neuro-immune syndrome. And he showed that you know- with leaky gut, if you don’t heal below first, taking something like uh-___may actually provoke an autoimmune type reaction. Now the study wasn’t very big but not the principle that people forget is that you know, if you cut your forearm, you’re gonna wanna wipe it off and put in uh you know, Band-Aid on to prevent pathogen entry.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Same type of thing in the gut you know, if you have a leaky gut, you start supplementing with probiotics. Yet some probiotics you know, heal the gut lining but it can lead through and create a huge inflammatory reaction.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I think it’s really important you have a sequence on how you treat infections. In my clinic, we always remove the foods first, like you mentioned. We replace enzymes and acids that’ll help digestion. We repair the hormonal system, whether it’s thyroid imbalance, adrenal, or female, or male hormone imbalances. We support the gut lining nutrients. Then we remove the infections. Then we repopulate probiotics. Then we retest. And I find that water tends to work the best. But I agree that you really have to do all the other things ahead of time so you have the best bang for your bucks when it is time to put the probiotics back in the system.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah. I just ran into a lot of people that’d been taken probiotics for years, even good quality probiotics.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Tim Jackson: And most people think that they just kinda go down there, and set up shop. Uhm, but they don’t realize it’s more of a transitory interaction with the gut associated lymphoid tissue. And that’s why you need to constantly you know, have the intake of bacteria because our ancestors that’s what they were exposed to you know, based on the soil.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. That’s why you do a lot of fermented foods. I recommend once my patients are really good and cleaned up, I typically throw a bottle of probotics at once a quarter, as long as they’re getting in good probiotics daily whether it’s with kimchi, or sauerkraut, or Bobby’s fermented pickles, or a low sugar kombucha, not the high sugar uh, alternatives that are- I might as well call them, soda.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah, exactly. Exactly, I agree with you.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Now on the DRG, though they’re not testing the individual bacteria molecules, though. I mean I’m seeing that they’re looking at H- pylori, though look at like some of the transient food allergen or food uhm, poisoning bacteria like Campylobacter or Shigella. But how are you looking at the other ones that I mentioned. The Klebsiella, the Citrobacter, etc.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Uhm, I’ll have to go back and look. But I thought that DRG tested for Citrobacter. I could be wrong on that one. But I do- to answer your question, uhm- provide- I go about addressing the gut similar to what you do. But uhm- I provide some broad-spectrum antimicrobial support. One of my favorites, which I know you’ve heard of, is uhm-Parsitan.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Uh-hmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: And uhm- So you know- again, a lot of these pathogens, like you mentioned, very specific supplementation. Uhm- but you know, some you can eradicate with you know, broad-spectrum biofilm busting and then antimicrobial.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. What’s your favorite biofilm buster?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Uhm, I use InterFase Plus.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm. Klaire Labs

Dr. Tim Jackson: From uh, Klaire Labs.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: And uh, I have pretty good results with that. Occasionally, I’ll have someone uhm, like I have this guy who’s a yoga teacher and help coach and he’s been doing detox, and this type of stuff for years. And he took uh, just the kind InterFase plus by itself had a very negative reaction. And because he has you know, such a high metal load underneath that biofilm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, the InterFase Plus I think is a EDTA chelating compound that so of the biofilms will use led in some heavy metals as a kind of a composition for that it so-

Dr. Tim Jackson: Right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh, some of the biofilms will use lead and some heavy metals as a kinda composition for that shield that hold up, right?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Right. Exactly. So they’re using calcium, magnesium-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Tim Jackson: You know that’s a – uhm- a great way for them to hide from the immune cells. Uhm- you know- on top of the bacteria doing the quorum sensing and exchanging DNA, people don’t realize exactly how smart they really are. Uhm- in terms of kinda manipulating our immune system.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hmm. And just to bring you back a little bit, but you made a couple of really good points early. You talked about oxygen.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And because oxygen is really important because we have various anemias, whether it’s an iron-based anemia, or a B vitamin based anemia. Both are really important for maturation, maturing healthy red blood cells, and helping red blood cells to carry oxygen. So we can’t carry oxygen and we can’t care nutrition, our mitochondria for the most part, screwed. So how are you addressing in your patients optimal iron and/or B12 levels. What are you looking at to assess that?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Well, you know I think it’s one of those things like, if we just started with a client right now, and we tested for food sensitivities, they you know- light up like a Christmas tree-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, of course.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Uhm- and so I tend to work on the gut to improve our iron absorption, uhm-  increase vitamin C levels- 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Uhm- to look at those things and look you know- the binding proteins as well. One thing uh- that I learned from Dietrich Klinghardt, he talks about uh- in different pathogens have a different effect on it. But at different stages of an infection, it may drive up creatine.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Tim Jackson: And at some point may drive down creatine. So you know, I felt to- that was kinda interesting. So I do see a correlation with a lot of pathogens. Uhm- you know, that uh, you know, correlates with these issues as well.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting. Yeah, my clinic typically the big three things that I see their driving iron issues are gonna be vegetarian diets.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Number two: female hormone issues that are driving excessive menstruation or hemorrhage.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Or number three: is just gut malabsorption. They have low stomach acid. They can’t ionize minerals, or they have leaky gut and malabsorption.  And they just can’t break down some of the, the heme- uhm- compounds in the food. So those are the big three that I see. And we try to work on all of those. Uhm- what are you seeing regarding the female hormone issues and low iron?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Uhm- you know a lot of times, I see, you know low thyroid function.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah

Dr. Tim Jackson: And with low iron, and obviously you know, I think I’m learning expression from Apex but they talk about, if you don’t think iron and you don’t fix insulin, you know- nothing else will work.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s a deal-

Dr. Tim Jackson: And so, you know, I try to look at you know, the transport proteins uhm- yeah, as well as like what you said, overall absorption and gut health and making sure that people don’t realize how energy intense breaking down protein is. And is a lot of times you know, it’s good beneficial to give the client. I found at least the uhm, essential amino acids on an empty stomach and luckily I just need a steak. I don’t realize that you know- what we’re giving them, hand delivering the bioavailable version of what so many reactions in their body uhm-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I agree. The thermic effect food on high protein compounds like steak is 30 to 50%, meaning- so 50% of the calories that the energy in that food just gets used up in breaking it down. So when you get free form amino acids, you’re basically giving 100% of it versus half of the getting used to pay the bill to break it down, so to speak.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Right. Exactly, exactly.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And how- go ahead, yeah.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Go ahead. No, I’m sorry.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And how are you looking at – how you diagnose B vitamin, like B12 issues, or low iron issues? What test are you running to assess that?

Dr. Tim Jackson: I will run it all on like the urinary iron binding capacity.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Tim Jackson: York and total iron binding capacity.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Uhm, B vitamin issues uhm- you know, if someone can do at least what LabCorp was doing I think they still are on RBC D12 and RBC folate-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh

Dr. Tim Jackson: If not, the lab in Germany. They used to have a branch in New Jersey, but they closed Health Diagnostics Research Institute and do a whole, like real time methylation panel that shows what your methylation pathways are doing with the nutrients you have at that specific time slot versus the 23andMe, which is just the genetic or epigenetic blueprint.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it.

Dr. Tim Jackson: And so, yeah. Uhm- in terms of iron, I look at gut health and think of that nature. And sorry, what was the last part of your question?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: B12. Any other B12 markers?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah. So I work at you know, the NMA and things like that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Tim Jackson: From the studies I’ve read like, for example, like many other markersuhm- B12 levels in most Asian countries are much, much higher than here. And there been no documented cases of adverse reactions to B12. The only thing I’ve seen clients is you know, if they have a polymorphism called COMT-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Sometimes too many metal donors a methyl group is just the carbon with three hydrogen.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup

Dr. Tim Jackson: And so all the methylation reactions, given to many metal donors they can get overstimulated.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it, man. Very good information. So just kinda recapping here just for all the listeners at home. I know were going really kinda down the rabbit hole. So we’re talking about the mitochondria, powerhouse of the cell. We need healthy fats in our diet. We need to keep the food allergens out. We need to make sure we’re infection-free so the LPS isn’t poisoning our mitochondria. We need healthy nutrients, B vitamins curcumin, house of the nuclear factor kappa beta, good hormones, good absorption, good iron levels, good B12. Is there anything you wanna add to that summary for optimal mitochondrial function for our listeners, Tim?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah. It’s just glutathione again.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, yeah.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Because it’s most the depressed on its ability to detoxify. But people don’t realize that it’s an- a natural antiviral that you have to have it for gut healing to occur. Uhm- it’s extremely important in immune function. It’s extremely important in terms of mitochondrial protection. Uhm- and that again, with the other antioxidant superoxide dismutase, that I’ve mentioned.  Now without getting too much into Biochemistry, and instead of kinda just chasten those individual markers, we can take different nutrients or nutraceuticals that increase in RF, too.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Which activates all of your antioxidant enzymes, and turns off lot of the pro-oxidant uh, signaling it’s going on. And so things that would activate that or things like sulforaphaneuhm, possibly turmeric and resveratrol. But uhm, thinking more of what can I do to affect all the different symptoms and systems, is kind of the approach that I take.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool. When you try to improve glutathione levels, do you try to just give some of the amino acids so the patient to make the glutathione? Or do you give the actual liposomal glutathione? How do you differentiate the two?

Dr. Tim Jackson: I use a lot of times, the neurobiological transdermal.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, got it.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Uhm- glutathione. Sometimes I’ll use the Apex Energetics Super OxiCell which has glutathione and superoxide dismutase. Uhm- but overall uhm- sometimes I will give people N-acetyl cysteine-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Tim Jackson: But for some reason, and you made delicious light on this for me, I’ve searched for answer for years- But some people including myself will respond negatively and have a huge metal stir up when they take N-acetyl cysteine but if I take glutathione, I’m fine. Which doesn’t make sense. NAC is the precursor to glutathione. And I’ve had this and a small subset of people like I said, including myself, back many years ago when I took uh- N-acetyl cysteine, you know- I had a major yeast flare and uh- you know, I had a metallic taste in my mouth, all sorts of negative things.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: The only thing I could think of clinically as the NAC is a pretty strong biofilm buster.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s some kinda biofilm release with the high amount of NAC. I’d be curious if it happens with cysteine uh- or glycine versus just NAC by itself.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Doesn’t’ happen with glycine.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting. So could be a biofilm issue. Wouldn’t be surprised.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Excellent. Well thank you for shedding some light on that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And no problem. And you mentioned the nerve stuff. The nerve uhm- 2 inhibitors there. I think it’s the nerve 2. Is it an activator- no inducers. Nerve 2 inducers that you mentioned. Green tea is also a big one. Milk thistle, pomegranate, even green coffee, ginkgo, olive leaf and then you mentioned the sulforaphane which will be primarily found in your cruciferous vegetables.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Right, exactly. And uh, you know- we’re talking about these acronyms, enough kappa beta and RS2.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Tim Jackson: But the take-home message for people is that, instead of chasing you know- just one marker and take one supplement for that, if we can try and control what genes are being read, we can have a lot more impact on someone’s health.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool. So let’s segue to the gene portion here. I mean, talked to then Ben Lynch last year in one of the conference that I went to. And he was talking about that everyone’s looking too much of the genes, do so much of the genes or the junk DNA. There’s only a couple of genes that really matter. Obviously his big focus is on the MTHFR gene, which is the methylenetetrahyrdofolatereductase gene SNP. What genes are- do you think are the most important? Coz you know when we look at these gene pages, whether it’s like genetic genie or livewello, you get like 50 pages. It’s super overwhelming and then one page says this, and the other page contradicts the other. So how the heck do you make sense of it all?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Well first of all, I’m gonna try to go back to my biochemistry background. You know, when all my you know- friends and everything are ready to get out and finish biology I was really getting into it coz I’m like, if you understand how the cell works, then you can really understand the body.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.

Dr. Tim Jackson: And uhm- so that- that’s you know, I kinda approach things. It’s looking at the biochemistry. Uhm- but you know, in order to do that you have to test for active biomarkers. So biomarker it can be anything. It can be like a physical measurement like blood pressure, or it can be your iron level, or your testosterone level, or any marker tested through urine sample, uhm- or a stool sample. And so uhm, you know- that’s kinda how I approach uh- thing. That is to look out- take into account the polymorphisms. But I don’t sit there and add them up and say, “okay this, that” It’ll drive yourself crazy, you know.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.

Dr. Tim Jackson: And we have hundreds of thousands of polymorphisms. You know, what are we gonna do when the report reaches 200 pages? 300 pages? I mean- the situation situation where you can’t see the forest for the trees and uh- I’m probably one of the people to blame for that coz is around 2010-2011 I started really talking about MTHFR after learning about it from Kendall Stewart who’s in Austin, Texas.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: But I look at uh- GSTM which is glutathione S-transferase.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Uhm GSTP, SOD which stands for superoxide dismutase.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Then when someone have the polymorphism, just so we’re clear, it may mean that the enzyme that tho- gene or that gene is coding for uhm- speed up or they may slow down.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: And it just depends on the specific polymorphism and uhm- you know, you have to look. So like one polymorphism is called CBS. It’s Cystathionine Beta Synthase or Synthatase. And uh- one of them uhm- speeds up the enzyme whereas another one slows it down. So you may have some canceling out of effects. But what you’re doing is looking in a blueprint. And I call them biochemical hiccups or potential biochemical hiccups. In your physiology, and it’s meant to empower people because then you can bypass you know, these genetic hiccups. Uhm, so to listen to the others that I’ve looked at uhm- one is the APOE, which plays a role-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Cholesterol

Dr. Tim Jackson: -in health as well as your ability to tolerate a Paleolithic type diet.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: It also plays a significant role in your ability to detoxify.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: And so uh- it really uh- I take a case by case but I tell people, you know- get the printer in me done, fine $9, a one time deal you never have to redo it. But in order to figure out what’s going on, like real time we need to do OATs test.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: – or methylation panel from that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Bingo.

Dr. Tim Jackson: – plus all the lab. And you know, what people understand is that you- you may not have any copies of MTHFR, that you can have what I call a functional polymorphism where those pathways are not working because of too much oxidative stress, or environmental chemicals, or nutrient deficiencies.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Malabsorption, gut issues.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Exactly. So lot of times people will say, “okay why are we working on methylation?” I’m like, “We are- We’re working on gut health first, which is gonna help unload the liver. And you know, if you have too many like a lipopolysaccharide-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.

Dr. Tim Jackson: It can back up phase 1 detox. So you know, the first step is really working on the things you have to work no matter what your goal is. And so whether someone wants to be pro athlete, have more energy to their kids or grand kids you know- their gut has to function well, just like their adrenal and thyroid.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very Cool. So let’s do a quick rapid fire and just go to the top 10 SNPs. What’s number one?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Okay. Uh- I would probably say uh- MTHFR

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it. And we have the-

Dr. Tim Jackson: And then there’s multiple versions of it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Basically, to give people a summary uhm- it affects glutathione production, the production of DNA and RNA, production of myelin that coats our nerves, uhm- the production of neurotransmitters, uhm- and growth factors. And then after that, I would list probably APOE. Then I would probably list the glutathione-related polymorphisms.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay.

Dr. Tim Jackson: And the superoxide dismutase polymorphism. Uhm then I would probably look at uh- the DDR.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup

Dr. Tim Jackson: Which the vitamin D receptor and I would include in there too the BCMO polymorphisms, which prevent the conversion of uhm- beta-carotene into retinoic acid.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah. And so- then you have to use you know, a more bioavailable form of vitamin A. And you know, people they’re so focused on Vitamin D, they don’t know that Vitamin A is really important for thyroid help and immune function, and gut health. Uhm- so you know, those are the ones that I really focus on. You know, if research comes up tomorrow- Oh, another one that I forgot is PON1, P-O-N 1.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: At- uh, greatly affects your ability to detoxify certain environmental chemicals. So someone has to be a lot stricter with their dirty dozen clean 15 beatings.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Especially if they have a glutathione polymorphism on top of it because you know, there- didn’t have such a reduced capability of detoxifying.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Alright. So we have our MTHFR. We have the APO: APOa1-2. We have the PON1. We have the COMT. We have the glutathione. We have the VDR, the vitamin D receptor. Does that sound about right?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yup. That sounds good to me.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And I just wanna make sure the listeners really understand coz the big one that’s out there is the MTHFR.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’ll just break it down here for a second. We have the C67787. We have heterozygous or homozygous; second we have the C67787. We have heterozygous or homozygous. Heterozygous is you have-

Dr. Tim Jackson: T70 and A2198C. Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup. A2198C, correct. And the big one is, I think the C is the bigger one of four. And four homozygous in that, that’s an 80% reduction. If for hetero, works only a 40% reduction. And it’s –

Dr. Tim Jackson: More of this- have affect different things-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Tim Jackson: And again, you know, if you get the report from MTHFR support, they have so many forms of MTHFR. But the two lucky that had been most researched are A1298C.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup

Dr. Tim Jackson: And the- you know, you hear about the C677T because it can lead cardiovascular events, strokes, heart attacks, and associated with elevated homocysteine. Uhm- but you know, you wanna really look at all the other factors that are involved as well. And so, uhm- with different polymorphisms, like I said before, you know- it may just be something that you avoid like in the case of PON1 you know, we need to avoid those certain foods. Uhm- NAT2 is another one that’s involved in the phase- liver phase to detox process called acidulation.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Tim Jackson: And uh- again, this is another example. Some of the NAT2 SNPs will speed up that enzyme. Meaning it labels things harmful but aren’t really harmful. And other forms will slow things down or- so that you miss potentially harmful compounds. So again, you kinda have to look- I look at groups of polymorphisms, overall. And again, if someone’s come to and they have mold practice being asleep in a room like mold, 39:40 listen, MTHFR is not gonna be the first think we’ll work on.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right. Totally.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Uhm- Yeah. And that’s the time, I approach them uhm, along with healing the gut. And really controlling off the distress because if often distressed inflammation is present, none of these goals can be achieved.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally understand. So with the MTHFR, we have the C and the homozygous, heterozygous for the C6778T or whatever- and then the A1298C. How much percent is reduced depending on whether it’s hetero or homozygous for each?

Dr. Tim Jackson: It’s different for different versions of MTHFR. Ah and uh-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: For the C and A versions.

Dr. Tim Jackson: What’s that?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: For the C and A versions-

Dr. Tim Jackson: Uh, Yes. So the C677T and the A1298C are the two that you’re talking about, right?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Correct. Correct.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah. So the A1298C doesn’t get much attention. It’s more associated with neuro-immune type issues.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Meaning autoimmune disorders, uhm- lupus, sjogren’s, rheumatoid arthirits. Those sorts of things. Uhm- it’s also associated uh- to some degree in the research with autism. Uhm- but research shows for both C677T form and the A1298C form uhm- you know, they are responsible for different things. And again, you haven’t even know there’s dozens of different versions of MTHFR SNPs. Those are just the ones with uh- most research behind them now. And so in order- you asked me how much is that enzyme function reduced, I forget the statistics- you know, varied by ethnicity. Uhm- but again, we have to factor in oxidative stress, uh- heavy metals, uhm- nutrient depletion.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.

Dr. Tim Jackson: People don’t take those into account. And I won’t name any names but there’s a lady that you know- wants you to do like $2000 a month of testing and you need if you have the polymorphism, you take these four supplements and that you have this polymorphism to these two and could wind up on like $600 a month of supplement. And you don’t even know if they’re expressing. And so a lot of the so-called uh- polymorphisms will be silent by doing things we discussed, such as controlling inflammation, improving gut health, improving blood sugar, optimizing iron and oxygen delivery. All those things are positive signals sent to our nucleus of ourselves.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So let’s say we have the homozygous of the C677T, so we have that 70 to 80% reduction in that enzyme. So let’s say we’re doing all the downstream things, right. We’re doing the glutathione, the diet, the- the,uhm- oxygen support, the B vitamins. What other supplements would we add in on the methylated nutrient side? Will we just be focusing on L- LMTHF Folate? We do methyl B12, or hydroxyl, or adenosyl B12? Will- what would you recommend on the supplement sites specific for those SNPs?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Well, first would be- And I know I sound like a broken record- supplements to go after inflammation. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it.

Dr. Tim Jackson: So Carnosine, maybe CBD oil. Uhm- but the- one of the two probably most important nutrients that are crucial for all these methylation reactions, there’s hundreds of them, are magnesium and zinc. You know- let’s not get away from the basic too far here.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Of course.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Uhm- they’re cofactors. That’s what they are, for enzymatic reactions in the body. And so now I work on repleting someone’s RBC magnesium and RBC zinc. I make sure that we have the other B vitamins like, B1, B2, B3-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Tim Jackson: B5. Uhm- and as far as B12, usually most people do pretty well in a combination of the Adenosyl N-Methyl. Like I said, some people who are really sensitive to metal donors uhm- will get overstimulated by too- too much folate and B-12. But one important point I make here- just, I’m not trying to scare people, but a lot of people coming to me with these reports, and uhm- you know they just want to take methylfolate and B12 and be done with it. But if you take those two nutrients in the presence of oxidative stress, you create something called proxy nitrite.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhh-

Dr. Tim Jackson: That is a very harmful compound to all of our cellular structures. And so order here is important. There is a method to demand. And so, you know- again, the other B vitamin cofactors B5, B6, biotin, uhm- you add in B12 and methylfolate is last.  And then for the transport of B12 to get into your cells, you need lithium orotate. Uhm- you know, lithium is important trace mineral.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hum-

Dr. Tim Jackson: And it uh- it has really good properties in terms of neural protection or brain protection.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting. So when we add all these nutrients in, we talked about the magnesium, the zinc, the B vitamins, when would you in particularly use methyl B12 versus the Adenosyl B12 versus hydroxyl B12? How would you apply that specifically with each patient?

Dr. Tim Jackson: So with Adenosyl, it works more on the mitochondria. So if you really have someone with a lot of mitOochondrial issues, I’ll use a lot of Adenosyl.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Methyl, I- what I do is you will start on methyl adenosyl and then later on, when they’re processing uhm- the B vitamins well, I’ll add in you know the methylcobalamin. As far as the hydroxy B12, you can check someone’s uhm– T-ADMA for nitric oxide status. Uhm, hydroxy B12 works on improving nitric oxide levels which-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it.

Tim Tim Jakson: – is you know, important self-signaling molecule in immune function and that’s your function.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting. Excellent. So anything else you wanna comment on regarding methylation? Do you feel you’ve done a good job hitting all the key points?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah. The fact- so many systems in the body and I wanna make an important point here, if you don’t remember anything else. Remember that if you have MTHFR, the more copies you have, the less ability you have to uh- metabolize folic acid. So the whole point here is that-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Folic acid will build up in your bloodstream and studies show that it will lower your natural killer cells, which is not good for fighting pathogens or for cancer risk. And so uh- I see a lot of OB/GYN putting people on folic acid even when they know they have MTHFR.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Tim Jackson: And it just goes back to a fundamental misunderstanding or lack of understanding of basic biochemistry. Because that’s the whole point of MTHFR that you cannot process the folic acid that’s added to things like grains and cereals.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. That’s the key thing is, you gotta make sure you’re at least on LMTHF Folate uh- or Calcium Folinate. But again, if a supplement company chose to put folic acid in there, they’ve really made a statement that they’re undervaluing the raw material that they’re putting in their supplements. So that’s super important and like you said, the refine fortified junk food, is what’s gonna have the folic acid in. It’s gonna be the orange juice, the bread, the grains, that kinda stuff.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Right. Uh and real quick there’s the condition uhm-

called cerebral folate deficiency, whereby you cannot get folate into the central nervous system uhm- in the cerbrospinal fluid uhm- I know there’s- I think one maybe two lab tests for it. When I learned about it was actually a research project by Doctor Quadro’s State University of New York. And uh- different you know, experts or authority years in the area will say you know different things about it. But uhm- with cerebral folate  deficiency, most of the time the way someone supplements is using Leucovorin which is prescription folinic acid.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Tim Jackson: So we have about folic acid. Well one step more active than that is folinic acid. And I asked Dr.Quadros, “why do you guys use this in the study, that they have MTHFR why not use different–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah

Dr. Tim Jackson: Or when I used up on your you know- L-5-MTHF directly and he said, “One, it was just the way to study was written and two, there’s some potential neurotransmitter neurological uhm- functions that can be improved with Leucovorin versus uh- L-5-MTHF”. But you basically have to hypersaturate the receptors so that you can get transport across the brain and this affects the central nervous system greatly.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool. Excellent knowledge bombs there, Dr. Tim. I wanna give it here briefly, man. I wanna talk about mycotoxins. And mycotoxins are gonna be the toxins produced by mold. We’ve talked about this in our previous podcast that we did. So please refer back to the first podcast. But mycotoxins are really important. Obviously the first line of defense. I’m not gonna put words in your mouth. Correct me if I’m wrong. But get out of the environment where the mold is. That’s probably number one. And number two is it will involve other steps. I wanted to kinda get you a breakdown of what people should do outside of the first step, environmental removal uhm- next to kind of eliminate and reduce mycotoxin exposure.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Well, yeah. Number one you gotta get rid of the moisture source.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Tim Jackson: So depending on where you live, like I was in South Carolina, I have to have two digimon of fires underneath the house. And I have one running upstairs even during the winter. And uh- you know there’s gonna be mold everywhere. But what happens is in a lot of people think mold is only in older homes. But with new homes, they try to build them to be so energy-efficient that it only leaves a few species of mold in the house. And you know it’s called niche exclusion like in the gut. If you only have a couple species of good bacteria, you can have an overgrowth of those good bacteria and undergrowth of- or deficiency of the others. And uhm- with mycotoxins, we can do a few different types of environmental test. The ones at your hardware store are not accurate. But uh- typically that will come back. There’s one test called an RMI.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: RMI. Yup.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Capital R-M-I. Uhm- and there’s uh- you know, it’s not really new anymore but it’s called the HERTSMI-2 Test. And this third one I’ll mention is the Realtime Lab. They offer environment test. And so wanna test your environment and you’ll be surprised because I know it takes darkness and a moisture source and most people don’t to their ductwork clean enough. And these mycotoxins are very low molecular weight proteins. So most air filters will not get them. But uh- you can have someone who’s certified in testing come in, which I did. And then type up a pretty long report and they list the species that you have and what’s important here is that there are certain genetic glitches. And this is not on a 23andMe but there’s one called the human leukocyte antigen. And there are many of those, but one has to do with your ability to detoxify mycotoxins. I happen to have the worst one called the dreaded genotype. And that means –

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, man.

Dr. Tim Jackson: My immune system does not tag mycotoxins when I ingest some, whether it’s through food or breathing. And so they build up in my body. And you wanna talk about something that would disrupt every other system in the body, you can have the male- you can have a testosterone level of a thousand and a great free testosterone level. But if you still have mycotoxins, you’re gonna feel horrible. Your- five different types of your immune cells are gonna be turned off. And that’s just from one mycotoxin called the gliotoxin. And you know, it affects- causes system wide chronic inflammatory response syndrome. And even after the removal of the stressor, your immune system may still be reacting strongly. And so you can kill the mold but a lot of people will use things like ozone and ozone industrial mold. But it releases dead mycotoxins which are immunogenic or stimulating to the immune system. So the most reliable method I’ve come across is using biodegradable enzymes.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: It was expensive. It was about $10,000 but I’ve heard of people spinning up to 70 grand per mold for mediation. So you wanna really work with someone who is reputable and you know, who’s not out just trying make money and failed when you did everything to tear down your house. So the- I bring up the genetic glitch that can be tested through LabCorp and there’s five different levels of that genotype. And 25% of the population has one. So what I’m getting at here is that, you can have an allergy or sensitivity to a mold, but the issue that I’m really focusing on here is the inability to detoxify mycotoxins. And that’s where ___ comes in.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Tim Jackson: We have the dreaded genotype as well. That’s why he makes bulletproof coffee.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Coffee, nuts, grains. Things like that are gonna be resources of mycotoxins available.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Big deal. Uh, but they’re not part of that 25% of the population that have the genetic glitch. And so these things may be- be very small, very low molecular weight, but they can disrupt everything from hormones to brain function, to immune function. Gut health is another one, if you have a client or patient who’s gut won’t heal. I won’t get into why that it has do with the hormone help alpha-MSH. But the mycotoxins- so we talked testing the environment.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Test your body level, there is a urine mycotoxin test RealTime Labs. But there is a kicker to it. You want to do a glutathione push you know, you’re hooked up to the IV and they just push some glutathione or taken a large oral bowl of some glutathione, about 30 to 45 minutes before collecting your urine to this test. Because if I were to take that test, and I didn’t do that, it would come up with low levels because I’m a porch greeter. It’s sort of the same thing as metals.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Metals. Yes

Dr. Tim Jackson: So when I take little time and then check my mycotoxin levels, it will tell me where I am. And uh- the follow-up testing is much cheaper than the original test, which is pretty expensive. But we want check your body burden to see how aggressive we need to be in terms of getting each mycotoxins out. So how we get them out? We bind them up in the bile and/or we use a protocol called the lipid exchange protocol. And it can be a combination of oral and IV fatty acids. And all you’re doing is you’re rehabing the cell membranes. And when you do that, that allows talking to move out and nutrients to move in. and it’s a high-fat diet, uh- moderate protein diet, low carbohydrate diet because you’re trying to reduce positive stress in the cell membranes. And a combination of that, the Patricia- It’s called the Patricia Kane protocol or lipid exchange protocol, along with using binders, works really well. Uhm- you may also have an infection of those mycotoxins. So they may have created a systemic infection. Then you would have to take either herbal, some sort of neutraceutical prescription, antifungal to get rid of that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So looking at all the different options we have, right. We’re decreasing the moisture, the humidifiers, we’re maybe using a mold remediation service that uses some enzyme therapies to help clean things out.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: There’s some decent air filters out there that are better that will at least help partially. Uhm- you mention the glutathione, right. Especially like a challenge when you test it with Realtime. But you could probably use liposomal glutathione as well. What about- And you mention the bile, right. So eating fats gonna be helpful coz that will stimulate the bile to release your- stimulate your gallbladders release bile, which is like changing that the gunky oil. What about modified citrus pectin? What about zeolite? What about activated charcoal? What are your thoughts on those things?

Dr. Tim Jackson: From my friends who are certified in the Shoemaker Protocol.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Shoemaker uses a cholesterol medication called cholestyramine.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Tim Jackson: The issue with that is that-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Super expensive.

Dr. Tim Jackson: You get it sometimes it is very expensive. But two, it’s gonna bind up all your good nutrients.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: And it usually constipates you. And most people with bile issue’s already constipated.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Uhm- But you- that medication and also have aspartame in it. Uhm- for $200 and something for a month supply, you can get it compounded. Uhm- there’s another prescription called Welchol. And again, these are both cholesterol medications.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: And it’s interesting because they hand them out like candy for high cholesterol. But when my clients need them for binding mold, they look at you like, “Oh, no! we would never do that.”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I know. It’s crazy.

Dr. Tim Jackson: But if question about modified citrus pectin and act with a charcoal-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: What about bentonite clay?

Dr. Tim Jackson: What- bentonite clay. Yeah. The one that uhm- the KIinghardt Community, the Biotoxin Community is kind of found to be most efficient. It’s from a nutraceutical perspective. It’s TakesumiSupreme .

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Which is this uhm- you know, from bamboo tree.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Bamboo shoots. Yup.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah. And so it’s pretty much like activated charcoal. Uhm- but there’s also another uh- process and I’ll try to find the link whereby uhm- while you’re trying to detoxify the mycotoxins, you neutralize them so they’re less reactive in the body. And someone figured out that uh- specific type of Hawaiian Noni Juice.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:Ahh-

Dr. Tim Jackson: -like that. Uh, I have no connection to the company but you know, I’ve heard great things about it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: How about just juicing the herbs? I know what uh- I know you’re referring to Dr.

Dr. Tim Jackson: serves no way to know your friend it to Dr. Michael Leibowitz. He has a talk, Takesumi Supreme. He also has the Noni Supreme. Do you prefer the Noni as well to have those same effects?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Uhm- I have not used Noni a lot, to be quite honest. And so, you know- Again, my go to is uhm- the Takesumi Supreme uhm- or Modified Citrus Pectin, uh- you know, Pectasol, uhm-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Tim Jackson: But you can also use, like you said, the bentonite clay. I just don’t have a tox of experience using it. And I just kinda you know, lots of times- It’s hard to research in all these different areas. So you kind have to stick to some of your-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.

Dr. Tim Jackson: -routine. Uhm-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: How about Zeolite?

Dr. Tim Jackson: So that’s pretty much what I do.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: How about Zeolite, Doc?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Oh, Zeolite. Sorry about that. Well a lot – as you know, a lot of uh- different companies sold Zeolite that- It’s contaminated –

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Tim Jackson: – with aluminum. Uhm- and I extense up my cells.Uhm- I won’t name the company but uhm- five of their models went out, they took it. There is a product that- and I’m not gonna mention it coz I haven’t fully- I don’t feel fully comfortable mentioning it, but it is a certain type of Zeolite that very public figure recommends to get into the cell. But it’s also sold by another company in another name and it- supposedly has testing to show that is not contaminated with uhm- aluminum. Uhm- and it’s supposed to be small enough this- the biophysical structure is supposed to be small enough that it can cross over into the cell.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool. Awesome, Doc. You drop some serious knowledge bombs here. Well, to save everything else for a part two. I love it. But last question here for you. If you’re stuck on a desert island, what’s the one supplement you- you bring with yourself?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Curcumin

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Curcumin

Dr. Tim Jackson: Hands down.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Curcumin. Love it. Hands down. Kinda help modulate that nuclear factor kappa beta, right?

Dr. Tim Jackson: That’s right. There you go. You got it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it, Doctor Tim. Well, anyone listening here, Doctor Tim is available worldwide for Skype and phone consults. His Facebook is He’s got a great blog post there. He’s also been on lots of other podcast like myself, bulletproof radio, etc. etc. So he’s a knowledge wealth. Dr. Tim, thank you so much for coming on the show. We appreciate the knowledge bombs. Anything else you want to leave our listeners with here today?

Dr. Tim Jackson: I would say that uh- the general concept is just because you can’t see something, doesn’t mean it’s not having a tremendous impact and effect on your health. And that applies to two things I deal with daily. One, EMF.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhh.

Dr. Tim Jackson: You know- uhm, electro magnetic pollution.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: And the other one is mycotoxins. So two things that we can’t really see, but are having a tremendous impact on us. I know we don’t have time to get into this, but EMF have been shown to activate something called the cell danger response.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oohh.

Dr. Tim Jackson: And basically hijacks all the workings and uhm- metabolism of the cell. And so uhm- an interesting fact for Dietrich Klinghardt points out is that people that are in high EMF environments or non-native EMF environments who have mold. They get sicker because those vibrations and frequencies send signals to the mold to produce more mycotoxin and and more potent mycotoxin.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I think it’s’ stronger. Yup.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally make sense. We gotta be inflammation detectives.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Awesome.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Absolutely. You gotta understand what you see and understand what’s happening of the cell and how to fix the cell, you fix everything else coz you gotta remember all your different organ systems are made of cell.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well it’s really great to have you Biochem background here in the show, Doctor Tim. Thank you so much and you have an awesome day. We’ll talk real soon.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Awesome. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Thank you.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Alright. Take care.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Bye.



Improve your energy by boosting your mitochondria – Podcast #67

Dr. Justin Marchegiani and Evan Brand discuss about the mitochondria and about energy in-depth in this podcast. Get the full explanation on how energy is generated in the body and how you can get more energy. For people who have chronic fatigue, discover how you can manage your symptoms and find out how you can improve your mitochondrial function.

MitochondriaLearn more about the various nutrients needed to boost energy when you listen to this interview. If you’re in the mood to geek out, here’s your chance to get a concise overview on how the citric acid/Kreb cycle works. Also find out what is the best test to take to look at how compounds are being produced and the nutrients needed to produce them.

In this episode, topics include:

00:41   about the mitochondria and energy

2:46   citric acid/Kreb cycle

09:52   electron transport chain

11:24   supplement for energy production

21:54   action steps








Podcast: Play in New Window|Download

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Hey, it’s Dr. J here.  Evan, how’s your Friday going?

Evan Brand:  My Friday is going great.  It’s a beautiful day.  There’s a festival coming in town that I’m gonna be–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Excellent.

Evan Brand:  Gonna be at this weekend meeting up with people.  It’s gonna be fun, man.  I’m gonna get out from behind the computer screen a little bit.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  That’s great.  I’m actually flying up to Boston this weekend.  Pretty excited about that.  I have family up there and going to a wedding.  So it’ll be a really great weekend in Boston.

Evan Brand:  Nice.  Yeah, it’s a–fall, it’s probably kicking in there by now.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I know, the foliage, all that good stuff.  Love it.

Evan Brand:  Great.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So we talked kinda pre-show that we were gonna chat about the mitochondria.  I’m getting ready to do an excellent YouTube video on it today and it’s kinda fresh in my brain so I wanted to kinda talk about the mitochondria and we’ll kinda talk about energy as well because the mitochondria is really the powerhouse of your cell.  Your body creates about 36 ATPs and ATPs are like the currency of your cells, how your cells generate energy.  And when people have energy issues, it typically comes from 1 out of 3 ends of the triangle of energy and that is adrenals, thyroid, and mitochondria.  And yes, they’re all connected.  Because typically if you have some level of adrenal dysfunction, there’s probably some level of thyroid dysfunction.  There’s probably some level of mitochondrial dysfunction especially if we’re having some type of gut issue because we need certain nutrients to run our mitochondria.  And again, we’re gonna attach my YouTube video that I’ll be doing later on today because I’m gonna through it and break it down in a more nerdy fashion.  But you’re gonna see there are certain parts of what’s called the Kreb cycle or the citric acid cycle and carbohydrates, proteins, and fats all feed into this cycle, and this compound called acetyl-CoA is produced.  And acetyl-CoA, again we need carnitine to help with the fats and brings the fats into the mitochondria, we need certain B vitamins and alpha-lipoic acid to help bring the proteins and the carbs and convert that into acetyl-CoA in the mitochondria.

Evan Brand:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I’ll take a breath there so you can–

Evan Brand:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Break it down more.

Evan Brand:  Yeah, yeah, take a breath.  Well, so a lot of people that have chronic fatigue, they may get some type of prescription or who knows what for chronic fatigue but if target improving the mitochondrial function, you’ll often a–I wouldn’t say a complete removal but you’ll definitely see lot of regression with those chronic fatigue symptoms, so maybe we’ll get into why mitochondria gets so messed up anyway and then talk about–well, I at least wanna talk about, you know, the ways to boost them and support them.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Got it.  So yeah, regarding the mitochondria, right?  I mean, it’s gonna crank out–it‘s gonna run 2 times a round, and you’re gonna see this whole citric acid cycle–that’s what we kinda talk about regarding the mitochondria, right?  This whole citric acid/Kreb cycle, this is really where you’re mitochondria is generating lots of ATP, lots of energy, and there are various nutrients that are needed.  So just to kinda open a diagram on the video there, but citrate, cis-aconitate, isocitrate, alpha-ketoglutarate, succinyl-CoA, succinate, fumarate, malate, and even oxaloacetate.  Big, big words but these are various compounds that get produced in this Kreb cycle and we can actually run tests.  One of my favorite tests to look at energy production in the mitochondria is an organic acid test and I use the organics tests primarily by Genova and it gives us a window into how all of these compounds are being produced and the nutrients that are needed to produce them.  So, because this is a really good window, and when we’re dealing with patients that have fatigue issues, one of the things we’ll see is sometimes we’ll see the thyroid in a pretty good place, not bad.  We’ll see the adrenal levels low and we’ll see the mitochondrial levels pretty good.  That’s gonna be a primary adrenal patient when it comes to fatigue.  We may see it the other way around with the thyroid being low and the adrenal and the mitochondria being okay, and that’s a primary thyroid patient.  And we may see it just the mitochondria on the lower end while the thyroid and the adrenals are doing okay.  Most of the time it’s a combination of 2 or 3, and sometimes we really have to support all 2 or 3 systems at the same time to make a major, major difference in the amount of energy and fatigue that’s there.

Evan Brand:  Let’s talk about mitochondrial toxicity.  What are the things that are causing people to have impaired energy levels and messed mitochondria?  I mean, I know a lot of different drugs, I mean, antibiotics and things like that affect mitochondria but would you say the environmental toxins, I mean, can you say any toxin that we would generally talk about is negatively gonna impact mitochondrial function also?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, toxicity across the board is definitely going to affect mitochondrial function.  Pharmaceutical drugs are notorious for affecting mitochondrial function.  Blood sugar because a lot of the nutrients, if you look at how the pathway, how the citric acid cycle runs and the ATP that’s produced, you’re gonna see at certain parts of the cycle, certain amino acids are needed, like leucine and isoleucine and glutamine and his–histidine and arginine and proline and all these amino acids, tyrosine, aspirate, and all these different amino acids are needed to run the Kreb cycle.  B vitamins, iron, if you’re anemic; magnesium, alpha-lipoic acid, these are, you know, cysteine, sulfur amino acids.  So I’m not trying to nerd up but I’m just trying to emphasize on the fact that nutrients are required for this Kreb cycle to run.  So if we have a malabsorption occurring, that’s gonna affect our body’s ability to absorb the nutrients we’re taking in to actually run the Kreb cycle.  If we have exposure to–to toxins, that will put stress on the Kreb cycle.  Remember it takes nutrients to detoxify as well.  So if you look at your cytochrome P4 oxidase pathways phase 1 and phase 2, you’re gonna see a lot of sulfur amino acids, a lot of minerals like selenium, like manganese, magnesium, zinc, a lot of minerals and nutrients and vitamins, and antioxidants are needed to detoxify.  So if you put more toxins in your body and your body needs to put nutrients into running these pathways, well, that means there’s gonna be less nutrients to run your Kreb cycle and your mitochondrias are gonna have less ATP and less energy.  Does that make sense?

Evan Brand:  That’s–yeah, it’s a great that you mentioned.  I’m gonna restate it just to make sure it goes into the brain and sinks in.  It takes more nutrients slash or in parenthesis energy to deal with toxins.  So removing your toxic load is gonna be essential.  I just pulled up a page here from Texas A&M University, Different Toxins That Affect Mitochondria, and this is another reason to stick to an organic diet whenever possible because these herbicides, insecticides, and fungicides are gonna prevent the passing of electrons to the proteins that carry electrons to it’s got the big list here of all these different toxins that are in conventionally raised foods, you know, the different fungicides and herbicides, insecticides, so obviously, cyanide.  All these–it’s a huge list.  If you just look up toxins that affect mitochondria, there’s so, so many but definitely I think that’s the good starting point for people.  It always comes back to this good foundation of the organic chemical-free diet and then we build on top of that with all these other extra geeky nutrients that we like to add in and boost you–your mitochondria up even more.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Exactly.  So if anyone’s listening to this and getting geeked out or getting a little overwhelmed, it doesn’t matter.  Just take all, everything I’ve just mentioned and throw it away, an organic diet is gonna be foundational, right?  Good nutrients, low toxins, anti-inflammatory.  That’s gonna bet he foundation.  Now on top of that, we wanna make sure we’re not consuming too much sugar especially refined sugar because if you’re taking in a whole bunch of sugar which doesn’t contain nutrients, well, it actually takes nutrients to run these pathways.  So if we’re getting a whole bunch of food that doesn’t actually have nutrients in it, you see how we’re actually creating a nutrient debt, meaning it’s costing more money or more energy to run these systems than what’s actually coming in.  It’s like we are charging more on our credit cards than we’re making that month on income, and I call this nutrient debt.  So we wanna make sure you’re not going into nutrient debt regarding poor food choices and we wanna make sure we’re not going into nutrient debt by exposing ourselves to toxins and increasing the amount of requirements for nutrition that our body needs.

Evan Brand:  Yup, I wanted to go over some of the chronic conditions that have their origin and mitochondrial dysfunction.  Obviously, this stuff is available online but since you’re listening you want to, let me save you some trouble here–Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s, diabetes, hypertension, heart disease, osteoporosis, cancer, and the big one for us, autoimmune disease.  So all of these dysfunctions plays a role in premature aging as well.  So I mean, this is the–this is pretty deep stuff, man.  This is going to the root of the body.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, 100%.  So when we look at our mitochondrias, right?  We look at our mitochondria, we have main–we have two main ways that we create a whole bunch of energy in the mitochondria.  We have the–the citric acid cycle or the Kreb cycle, right?  Same thing.  The next thing is the electron transport chain.  So if you look at that, you know, we make about 34 to 38 units of ATP in our mitochondria.  So you’re gonna see ATPs gonna come from the citric acid cycle, the Kreb cycle.  It’s gonna come from the electron transport chain primarily and then outside of the mitochondria we have energy in the form of glucose.  So glucose can be helpful for short burst energy, so getting some good healthy carbs in there.  But you can see a lot of the energy comes from inside the mitochondria that may not even be glucose-dependent because you know in the video we’ve already talked about in the video I’m doing, acetyl-CoA is that first raw material for the Kreb cycle and that comes from fats, proteins, and carbs.  So we really wanna dial in our mitochondrial nutrients, so a Paleo template with the right macronutrients for your daily requirements is gonna be essential for providing that acetyl-CoA, that first building block, and then if you’re eating organic and nutrient-rich foods and you’re getting, let’s say, an organic acid test done so you can know what nutrients you’re missing, then we can customize and make sure you have all of the nutrients and foundational support to move that Kreb cycle around and pump out ATP which is gonna be the–the currency of our for energy.

Evan Brand:  Great.  Yeah, when I first hear mitochondria, just because I’ve–was into the bodybuilding world for a while, I always think of D-ribose.  I don’t know what comes to mind for you but I always think of ribose as kind of the big supplement for energy production.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, I think of like alpha-lipoic acid and carnitine.

Evan Brand:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I think of those quite frequently.  Again, these nutrients like carnitine for instance.  This is from my biochemical textbook in doctorate school that said, “Carnitine is a compound that’s created primarily with the amino acids methionine and lysine, which are deficient in a vegetarian diet,” and it talked about the fact that vegetarians could be deficient in L-carnitine which is important because we need L-carnitine to perform the carnitine shuttle, which the carnitine shuttle is nothing more than out body bringing fat into the mitochondria and burning it for fuel.  So the analogy I give my patients, it’s like the old time steam trains with the coal.  We’re just shoveling that coal into the furnace to be combusted and create steam and move the pistons.  And that coal is like fat and the shovel is like the carnitine.  So the carnitine shuttle is like the carnitine shovel.  It’s shoveling that coal into the furnace to create the energy to move those pistons around and–and the real world body language is to move that Kreb cycle around where we can generate ATP and then we can also generate ATP in the form of the Kreb cycle–I’m sorry, in the form of the electron transport chain as well.  So we have the electron transport chain and the Kr–and then the Kreb cycle where we’re really creating a lot of our ATP and the ATP is the currency in which our body has–uses this energy.  It’s–it’s how our cells use.  It’s kind of the transactions in which our cells create energy.  We create it in our economy with dollar bills and things like that and credit cards.  They do it with ATP.  So we really wanna make sure our mitochondrias are maximizing its economic or ATP output.

Evan Brand:  So you’re telling me a vegetarian diet is not a good idea.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Again for some people they can pull it off and they can do really good.  But if you have higher protein requirements and higher fat requirements, again most vegetarians tend to be on the lower fat side.  The smarter ones will do coconut oil and MCT and avocado and they’ll do vegetarian DHA via algae.  The smart ones will do that.  But it’s so much easier just eating healthy animal products and getting your nutrients that way.

Evan Brand:  It sure is.  I couldn’t do it the other way you just said.  That sounds miserable.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And again, most people that have a hard time or that feel better on a vegetarian diet, because you know a lot of cancer institutes and cancer places like the Gerson Institute for instance.  They require–they do a lot of vegetarian, a lot of juicing and I personally feel they get great results doing that off the bat because many of these cancer patients, their guts are so screwed up whereas it’s just really juicing vegetables and getting a lot of your nutrients that way because it’s already broken down.  It’s ready to go.

Evan Brand:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  But I think we gotta work on fixing the guts.  If you look at evolution, there aren’t many places in the world that didn’t rely on some level of animal products.  So if you’re having a hard time dealing with the animal products, it’s either one, a food allergen or number two, there’s some type of digestive issue combination of low enzymes, low stomach acid, and/or a gut bug or dysbiosis that’s really preventing you from maximizing the digestive nutrients from these animal products.

Evan Brand:  Yeah, and I mean it is a mild chore if you will to cook and things like that but I feel like it’s even more of a struggle for people that are trying to maintain a vegan or even a vegetarian diet than if they would just get in some good animal protein because they’re always trying to fill in the gaps of these things that they’re missing out if they just had some good quality animal protein in their diet.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah and it’s something like 25% of the energy that you take in via a lot of these animal proteins, it takes that much minimum 25% just to even break it down and digest it.  So eating animal proteins and fats and such can be very intensive, can deplete and can require a lot of energy.  So if you’re sick and chronically ill, I mean, definitely utilizing broths, bone broths and soups, where you’re really breaking things down, maximizing chewing, maximizing enzymes so we can break it down better, and even using free form amino acids.  Aminos that are already broken down can be really helpful because now the body doesn’t have to go under all the extra energy required to free up these amino acids because protein are nothing more than pearl necklaces and then the individual pearls are the aminos.  So imagine every time you wanna break down that necklace, you gotta rip it apart and that can take energy.  And if you’re already fatigued, that may just be enough to push you over the top.  So in my chronically ill patients, we’ll see on an organic acid test, isocitrate, cis-aconitate, and citrate on the lower end and we’ll know and we’ll give them extra free form amino acids to help.  We’ll even see things like hair issues or nail issues and skin issues, and we may give them some extra free form aminos just to make it easier so the body has some extra building blocks in the meantime.

Evan Brand:  Yeah, I have a good success story about bone broth I wanna tell.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Go ahead.

Evan Brand:  It’s not in a human patient, but in a feline patient.  So Hannah and I, my wife, were looking for a house this past weekend and we were kind of out in the country, we’re looking for a piece of land with a house, things like that.  And we come across this little dry creek bed and I hear a “meow” and I’m, “Huh?  That’s weird.”  And I look over and sure enough, there’s a little kitten laying in the dried up creek bed, looks like it can’t move, looks like it has a broken leg, and so I’m like, “Oh, crap.  I can’t just leave this guy here now that I’ve seen him.  I’m involved.”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Evan Brand:  So I go check him out and I’m, you know, making sure he’s not gonna bite me or hurt me or anything like that and I pick him up and he’s acting really weird.  He’s super skinny, malnourished, things like that.  So long story short, we check out the house and you know, we leave him until we come out and he’s still here.  So we take him home and we’re calling all the animal shelters, trying to get him checked out.  They’re all closed for the weekend.  This was–I guess it was last Friday and so we’re like, “Crap, what do we do?”  So we end up taking him to this vet, spent like 200 bucks on him, get him deflead.  He was infested with fleas.  They trimmed up his hair.  He had a bunch of mattes in his hair and things like that.  Just rough shave, rough shave.  So we bring him home and he’s not eating anything and he’s not drinking anything and I’m like, “Man.”  The only thing that I could think to do because he had a fever, too.  So he had like a 104 fever which is high for cats, just like humans and he wouldn’t eat.  So I’m like, “Man, if I couldn’t eat, what would I do?”  And I was, “Huh.”  You know, I would do like an organic chicken and wild rice soup or something.  So I’m like, “Well, I’m not gonna give him that.”  But I had some bone broth in the–in the pantry.  The Pacific little cute little bone broth cardboard box, super convenient.  So I poured a little bit of that into a bowl and the second I put that bowl down in front of him, he just starts licking and slurping up the entire bowl of bone broth.  And then he just passes out and starts purring and goes asleep in my lap.  I mean, it was just awesome to see.  He knew right there, this is some good stuff.  He got some energy now.  I was kinda happy with him, just being a lazy cat in my lap, but now he’s been sipping on bone broth basically this entire week, and now he has so much energy that he’s just running around the house chasing my ankles, biting my ankles, chasing the dogs.  So now he’s got too much energy.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Wow.

Evan Brand:  But anyway, that’s my bone broth cat rescue story.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Crazy.  Well, we feed our cats a little bit of cod liver oil.  We’ll even put in probiotics.  I tried to do all grain-free stuff as biologically appropriate as possible.  I think that’s, you know, it’s–I see how animals are treated today and the quality of food they eat.  It’s–it’s devastating.  If people knew the quality of food they are feeding their pets, they would probably think twice.

Evan Brand:  Yeah, I know.  Do you ever give your cats like raw–like raw meat of any kind?  I’ve heard about that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I really try, it just becomes–they just, you know, they really have a stand-off with me.  And they’re like, “Nope.  We’re not gonna eat.”  And I’m just, “Oh!”  So I try to go with some type of, you know, fish or tuna or beef that’s, you know, human-grade, even organic, something that I could potentially eat.

Evan Brand:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And just really good quality biologically appropriate dry food as their kind of staple.

Evan Brand:  Yeah, cool.  A little bit off subject, but on the subject of energy nonetheless.  So–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Evan Brand:  I’ve seen the results first hand with bone broth and myself and definitely a lot of people that I’ve given bone broth as a recommendation for their gut healing protocol.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, that’s great.  And I just wanted to just walk everyone through one more time, right?  We have glycolysis, that’s where we take glucose when we create energy out of glucose.  That happens outside of your mitochondria.  In the mitochondria, we have the Kreb cycle or the citric acid cycle.  They’re the same thing.  We crank out ATP, alright.  In that process, our Kreb cycle produces these things called NADH and FADH2, and those gather up hydrogens.  And those hydrogens then get tossed over to the electron transport chain and we generate more ATP, about 30 to 34 units and about 2 to 6 units on the Kreb cycle.  So all of these ATP come out of the mitochondria.  About 32 to 38, depending on who you read or listen to, Ned or Gross, and that’s the energy that comes out of mitochondria.  So we have the outside part of the mitochondria, which is glycolysis.  That’s glucose energy.  Inside we have the Kreb cycle and the electron transport chain.  So a lot of the nutrients and a lot of the things that I mentioned today had to do more with the Kreb cycle and this is important.  So we–we gotta realize proteins, B vitamins, alpha-lipoic acid, carnitine, right?  These are really important nutrients to help run the cycle and we can deplete nutrients with stress, with poor blood sugar, and with toxicity issues.  So if we can maximize all those things by having good quality food, being careful with the refined sugar and avoiding toxicity and giving your body what it needs, that’s kind of like the–the first kind of foundational step to mind your mitochondria if you will.

Evan Brand:  Good stuff.  Shall we talk about action steps or what’s next in–in your brain over there?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, why don’t you kind of throw out a couple of action steps that they–the patients and the people listening can start with?

Evan Brand:  Well, you know, I’m a–a supplement nerd.  I’ve been working at a supplement company.  I’m a little bit biased and I always like to go to the supportive nutrients once again assuming the diet’s figured and straightened out.  Assuming that stress is managed.  People are using sensory deprivation tanks or they’re going out in nature.  They’re doing something to balance out the sympathetic and parasympathetic.  If all that’s done, then I really like to use even creatine is really helpful.  I’ve got energy benefits from creatine.  You most of the time, you hear it as a supplement only for bodybuilder and guys wanting to get big and things like that, but I found creatine really helpful.  You’ve already mentioned the alpha-lipoic acid.  I’ve used that not standalone.  I’ve used that in combination type products and then I’ve also used some of the PQQ.  I’ve used some of that just for experimentation purposes.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Evan Brand:  So those are just some things that I’ve experimented with that I’ve noticed great benefit in terms of energy.  I obviously like to use a good vitamin B12, a methylated cobalamin B12.  You can even get that one now, I think, it’s–what is it–the L-MTHF–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.

Evan Brand:  B12.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Evan Brand:  That’s a good one, too.  So I guess those are kind of my go-to choices, getting a good quality B vitamin in.  Sometimes a B complex but it’s tough to find one that doesn’t make people’s pee turn gold and they’re just in that overdose of B vitamin range.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Exactly.  I would say next for me on top of that, magnesium is really important for the Kreb cycle.  It has over 300 enzymatic reactions in the body or magnesium dependent.  B12 is really important so a lot of vegetarians that may not get enough absorbable B12, right?  You can get–

Evan Brand:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Analogs of B12 via the plants but they don’t have the same effect.

Evan Brand:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So if you’re getting an anemia from a B12 or an iron, that can affect the Kreb cycle and how your body creates energy.  So any anemia that can either be a B12 anemia or a iron-based anemia, that’s really important.  Next is B6.  B6 is really important for the brain for converting neurotransmitters but it’s also important for the Kreb cycle and then CoQ10, right?  One of the things that you’re Kreb cycle does is the mevalonic acid pathway in which, you know, CoQ10 is made.  It’s made from cholesterol and it’s a by-product of the ATP in the Kreb cycle.  So CoQ10 is very important.  Even things like malic acid, succinic acid–these are important Kreb cycle intermediaries.  I already mentioned creatine, D-ribose, a really important Kreb cycle nutrient, L-carnitine.  So depending on what organic acids, we’ll use some broad-spectrum mitochondria support, that’s number one.  And then number two is we’ll actually use specific high-doses of L-carnitine and CoQ10 on top of that and we may even add in alpha-lipoic acid especially if we see extra blood sugar issues on top of it.

Evan Brand:  Yeah, and talk about CoQ10 a little bit.  There’s a big variance in quality.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, I mean with CoQ10, right?  It’s like anything else.  It’s like well, meat’s meat, well, know you can get meat from McDonald’s or you can get meat from your grass-fed farmer.  Two totally different things and it’s amazing how most vegetarians and vegans just want a lot meat into one category but heck, we would never lump vegetables in one category.  We wouldn’t say, “Hey, the–the roundup ready, you know, vegetable that’s sprayed with thousands of pounds of pesticides a year is the same as the organic one in your backyard, right?  That’s just crazy but we do that with meat all the time.  So, what was your question again?  I just got up my own little tangent there.

Evan Brand:  The question was talking about CoQ10, why you need a good–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Oh, yes.

Evan Brand:  A good activated version or bio-available version if you will.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Evan Brand:  Obviously for magnesium, all that stuff, too.  Because people may–people still, like when I get the supplement list from people like, “What are you currently taking?” during the initial paperwork, I’ll still see magnesium oxide on there and it’s like, “That’s a 4% absorption rate.”  So that’s garbage.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  It is.

Evan Brand:  And that’s the same thing that you’ll get with some of these low quality CoQ10’s that people will go to Walgreen’s and just pick off the shelf because they heard in an article or in a podcast like this that it’s good.  So they go out and they just get the standard thing and the standard thing is not gonna cut it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, I mean, I see a lot of the–I see a lot of the CoQ10 like in the cheaper stores like the Walgreen’s and the Costco and such.  I’ll see the price of the CoQ10 and I know what the supplement companies but these things at cost from the major manufacturers like the–the manufacturing at cost price is more than what they’re selling at retail in some of these box stores.

Evan Brand:  Geez.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So it’s just impossible to get quality when you’re, you know, buying that cheap.  So again, we try to use maximal absorption, you know, lowest amount of additives.  There’s some benefit to reduce.  There’s some benefit to non-reduce, meaning ubiquinone or ubiquinol.  Ubiquinol is the reduced form.  Ubiquinone is the non-reduced form.  Just the differences in gain in electron.  The reduced form has a gain of a electron in there.  Again, the research is spotty.  This–it doesn’t support as much in the reduced side.  It’s a little more expensive.  So I just tend to use the regular ubiquinone with some people.  But as they get older, there’s some research saying that maybe the ubiquinol is better, but I typically go with the ubiquinone at about a hundred to 300 milligrams per day.

Evan Brand:  DO you take CoQ10 yourself?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I take a broad-spectrum mitochondrial support that does have anywhere between 100 to 200 milligrams per day.  So I do get at least a hundred to 150 in per day.

Evan Brand:  Uh-hmm.  When I–I told you about all the–the stuff with my Grandma, it’ll be a long story to say on here but I brought up to the cardiologist, I said, “Hey, I–you know, I’m looking to get–do you guys have any CoQ10 on hand that you can get pumping into her ASAP?”  And he said, “It hasn’t even been proven in studies to work.”  So, you know, I think CoQ10 is kinda like the vitamin E where everybody got all, “Yeah, vitamin E, vitamin E.”  And he just completely dismissed the value of CoQ10.  I forgot to tell you about that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Oh, really?

Evan Brand:  Off air.  But it was just like, “Dude, really?”  It’s like I can pull up my mobile PubMed app right now and show you studies of CoQ10.  But maybe there weren’t studies in 1970 or whenever he graduated.  You know what I mean?  So it’s just kinda like, get with the times.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  It’s tough because in research you can almost find something that says anything you want.

Evan Brand:   Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So if this guy is, you know, anti-functional medicine or anti-nutrition and wants to just lean more on the conventional side, he could find stuff that says what he wants.  Again, we could probably rip apart the study and maybe see well, the CoQ10 didn’t have the highest quality.  Maybe the–the amount wasn’t therapeutic enough.  We can rip apart from that perspective.  But he just looks at it and says, “Well, CoQ10–the abstract conclusion said it wasn’t effective for heart failure or heart issues.”

Evan Brand:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And, you know, we know that there’s other confounding variables that may have been affecting that.  The amount, the quality, and there are other studies that do say there’s an issue.  And clinically, we know that patients that need CoQ10 when we added in, they do better and they feel better.

Evan Brand:  Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And what more clinically do you need?  I mean–I mean, how much money, how much time, how many years do we need to spend for something to be a part of the mainstream?  It won’t be a part of the mainstream.  The research says that when something actually enters the research, it’s in the research and it’s like, it’s there.  It takes to about 20 years for that to become part of the mainstream.

Evan Brand:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So I mean, my God, if you’re waiting for definitive things in research to–to become a part of a mainstream, I mean, you’re gonna be waiting for decades.  And if you’re like 20 or 30 now, I mean, you may be 60 or 70 and retired before you could ever get the official benefit.

Evan Brand:  Right, that’s insane, yeah and I–I’m glad you brought up the, you know, the clinical side of things.  If I see that it’s gonna work, I’m gonna continue using it.  And you and I both isolate things and we tweak all these different variables and it works.  There’s no doubt about it so I–I’m glad we got to hash that out because it’s crazy to always have to have something in writing that’s signed in blood that says, “Yes, this is guaranteed to work.”  I mean, if I see it working outside of, you know, some double blind placebo, I mean, I’m a big fan of those, but they’re not necessary if I see it working in the day-to-day life.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Oh, my gosh, like I heard a doctor recently say that, well, talking about diet and cancer, that dietary changes have not been shown to help cancer, right?  It’s like, “Oh, my God, are you kidding me?”  It’s like is it that hard to understand that sugar in your diet feeds cancer cells?  I mean, we only have a test called a PET scan that involves giving someone radioactive glucose so we can see where that glucose goes because we know the tumors take it up.  It’s like is that hard–is that hard to bre–is it that hard to bridge the gap over that glucose feeds, excessive sugar feeds cancer, or that if we have man-made carcinogenic compounds in the form of pesticides and plastics that are known to be carcinogenic, that if we take those in our diet, that that could affect and grow cancer cells in our body?  I mean, is it that–that far-fetched?  So it’s really difficult because like you gotta look at yourself.  You gotta clinically look and see what works for you, use functional testing, try it, see how it feels because essentially all research really comes from and is initiated first by clinical research.  Like it’s a clinical observation, a doctor sees it, a patient benefits and goes, “Hey, let’s create a study, let’s do this,” and then we finally see the benefit years later in a clinic study and then it has to be repeated many, many times and then maybe 20 or 30 years later, we can actually say, “Hey, this actually does that.”  But there’s so many years we have to wait and clinical research, the clinical observation is where it all starts from.  So try to get a lot of your information from the clinical side and then you’ll yourself 30 years having to miss out on the benefit.

Evan Brand:  Totally.  Great way to sum that up, man.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So action item right now, all the diet and lifestyle stuff we already mentioned. If you wanna take it to the next level, get an organic acid test.  You can reach out from Evan or to Evan or to myself, JustInHealth or NotJustPaleo and we can get a test ordered for you.  We can customize a program based on that test.  I just ran two tests from two different companies side by side and I’m looking forward to doing a video reviewing that and how I did on my organic acid test.  I think everyone’s, you know, like, “Hmm.  I wonder if he’s really practicing what he preaches.”  And I’m gonna show you how good or bad my test was.  You’ll have to tune in and see.

Evan Brand:  Yeah, I’m–I’m curious to see, too, because it sounds like I’m gonna be switching companies as well.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, I’ll give you a little sneak preview.  My organics have been getting better over the last year or two, so I’m excited and I’ve added some additional mitochondrial support and I definitely feel the improvement and again, like the diet’s the foundation.  This is kinda like the frosting on the cake to take it to the next level if you will.

Evan Brand:  Yeah, and this is a whole new other podcast, but since I’ve just–I–I’ve really enjoyed this and this has been really fun.  I really love stacking the mitochondrial support with adaptogens.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Love it.

Evan Brand:   I mean, it just takes it to a whole another level.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Love it.

Evan Brand:  So–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:    Absolutely.  Well, if anyone’s listening to this and wanna get to the next level then you know where to reach out and again, if you guys are liking the actual real clinical info, go over to iTunes.  Click below either on the YouTube video or on the iTunes podcast app, and get–let us–have a review, give us a review, let us know how we’re doing, give us some feedback.  If you have any show recommendations, let us know what you want to hear.  We’re here to produce really great information that will really help empower our, you know, the culture, the–the country here.  We really wanna put information out there and get people back, taking control of their health.

Evan Brand:  Definitely.  And yeah, go write a review.  This show is gonna be on my show and on Dr. J’s as well.  Write a review for his show on iTunes.  Yes, it takes a few minutes, but you have a few minutes because you just spent X amount of minutes listening to this.  So go on, click the Write A Review button tab.  You have to actually add some stars, add in some words.  Just do it.  It’s–it’s so helpful for us.  It keeps us up in the top of the charts to where all of the multilevel marketing schemes and other people that were “competing with” that they fall to the bottom and that we rise with the truth, and you know, the–the real way to get to the bottom of–of health and happiness.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Awesome.  I love it, Evan.  We’ll end on that.  That’s the perfect ending point.

Evan Brand:  Alright, man.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Have a good day!

Evan Brand:  You, too.  Bye.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Bye.








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