Types of Magnesium and Their Benefits | Podcast #236
Magnesium is an essential vitamin that our body needs, especially when we are stressed or if our body needs help in absorbing more nutrients.
In this episode, learn more about the amazing benefits of taking Magnesium supplements, deficiency symptoms, and how it can help in our inner health. Know more about how much Magnesium you need, and the different superfoods that give off this wonderful mineral.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani
In this episode, we cover:
0:51 Magnesium Deficiency
4:20 Magnesium Benefits
9:25 Medications and Magnesium
19:58 RDA (Rat Drugs and Assumptions)
23:44 Diets, Magnesium consumption, etc.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey guys it’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani. Today, we are gonna be chatting about magnesium, types of magnesium benefits, deficiency symptoms and what you can do about it. So, really excited to have today’s talk going on here. Evan, how are we doing today?
Evan Brand: Hey man, I’m doing well. I got inspired to talk about magnesium because last night I put on some magnesium oil that I purchased, you know cause I have a lot of clients today ‘oh I put magnesium oil on my legs and it really helps me sleep’ and I’m like ‘oh really?’ you know how, how was like six sprays of topical magnesium really gonna do that much but I did it and I really slept much better. So is it placebo? Did it truly do that much? I mean, I think, we know the literature shows transdermal magnesium as possible so maybe it was that magnesium.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. We do know that there’s some data showing that magnesium can help with cortisol levels at night then it can improve deeper sleep at night, and we also know as a large percent of the population is deficient and we can go into a lot of these things why. So why don’t we just dive in? So off the bat– there’s data showing that 50% of the population is deficient in magnesium. Now, why is that? Couple things we know that the soils are becoming more and more depleted based on just lots of pesticides in the soil and roundup. That’s kind of their base roundups like a mineral key later so it hugs the minerals, pulls them away from the plant, and that’s kind of their mechanism of killing. Now, when you dump a whole bunch in the soil over time, it’s gonna really deplete a lot of those minerals in the soil and if those minerals are hugged or chelated away from the plant, that plant cannot take it up it’s Michael Reiser root system. So then you start to have deficiencies in these minerals in the plants because you know, you know if you can’t access, it could it’s being chelated away by glyphosate or roundup. It can’t go on the plant and we know the minerals get, um, uptake by the root system. And minerals also help with the expression of nutrition in the plant. So for instance with manganese, deficient manganese soil tends to cause a significant deficiencies in vitamin C in the plants as well. So it’s not just the mineral deficiency. That mineral deficiency spirals out when the other nutrient deficiencies in the plants main mechanism is microbiome of the soil is being affected, and the number two is just processed refined carbohydrates tend to not have magnesium, and when they go into your body, the Krebs cycle tends to need magnesium to metabolize a lot of this sugar. So it’s like using a credit card with a really high transaction fee that you already can’t pay to begin with. So you have a really high transaction fee, meaning you’re using magnesium to burn up that sugar and that sugar doesn’t even have magnesium in it to begin with, so you’re creating more deficiencies– One, by the soil. Two by the food, and then three in general just with stress excess cortisol excess stress. We will use more magnesium to buffer and to relax and to make GABA and to chill your body out so more stress will be the other key mechanism that will be causing you to burn out magnesium. Thoughts, Evan?
Evan Brand: Great analogy! Yeah, I mean it really goes to show how many people are deficient in magnesium. The soil piece that just goes to show more benefits of why you should be eating as much as you possibly can organic, you know, that’s a question we always ask our clients. What percent of your diet is organic make that number is close to a hundred percent as you can at your house, and also you know this time of the year we’re talking in the summertime. You know, a lot of farmers markets are out now. And just because it’s a farmers market food, doesn’t mean it’s organic. Though a lot of farmers still spray, so if you do go the farmers market make sure it’s certified organic or speak with them about did you spray. But if you can go local and organic you’re going to get even more minerals because we know if you could go and buy organic broccoli at Whole Foods that traveled from California, and you’re on the east coast, I mean, that’s potentially 1 to 2 weeks a travel time now. Is it still better than no broccoli?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely.
Evan Brand: But, if we’re talking, we want our people to be the top 100% of health. If you go down the street to the farmers market, you get broccoli, it was cut yesterday. I mean, you’re gonna have more bang for your buck.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%, yeah 100%. So let’s talk about magnesium benefits, okay, so we know magnesium is a relaxer. It helps vasodilate. It relaxes a lot of our blood, so it’s an help with blood vessel and vasculature health. Number 2, it has some really good anti-inflammatory benefits. So we do a lot of organic acid testing and there’s just inflammatory metabolites that we look at call Quinolinate. Quinolinate acid tends to go up in regards to brain inflammation. Now, why is the brain inflamed? It could be from lipopolysaccharides, from bacterial overgrowth, it could be from gluten issues, it could be from pesticide or mold exposure, mycotoxins and we see more Quinolinate acid and that comes out in the urine, but that’s a sign of brain inflammation. Now, we know that magnesium can actually help decrease Quinolinate acid. It decreases brain inflammation. I just know even surgically Dr. Russell Blaylock, they missed neurosurgeons lectured on this topic many times. When he would give patients who he operated on that a craniotomy or whatever brain procedure was, he would give them magnesium, he would confer with his colleagues and these patients the head the Supplemental magnesium post-surgery actually healed much better. So we know magnesium really, really good for any neurological stress. So really good things there magnesium plugs into the Krebs cycle which we talked about for energy. That’s why when you’re eating a whole bunch of sugar without magnesium, you get more depletion. So magnesium is really important for the Krebs cycle and for the energy. I’ll let you hit a couple more, Evan. Go ahead.
Evan Brand: No, that’s huge. That’s exactly what I was gonna hit on is that you, you wouldn’t think of magnesium increasing energy but it can there was one study that I had pulled up here, that was looking at magnesium deficient women and when they exercised, they needed more oxygen to complete low-level activities and they had a higher heart rate compared to when their magnesium levels were higher. So when you look at an athlete, if an athlete has adequate magnesium, hopefully that resting heart rate and then the heart rate under activity doesn’t have to go as high because you’ve got more minerals pumping. And you’re mentioning the nerves, you’re mentioning the muscles, everything worked– working much better. That’s crazy about the surgery there was also vitamin C. I want to say I read something about vitamin C and magnesium being used in an IV either pre or post surgery and that also being a game-changer.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, 100%. And, and we also know magnesium is really really important for muscle relaxation. So if you’re exercising a lot and your muscles are tighter or more more more more tonic or tight it’s gonna really help relax the muscles. We also know magnesium is a natural laxative. Now, I always draw a line because we have to figure out is the reason why your bowels aren’t moving. Is it because of SIBO or low stomach acid, or could part of that be just from not having enough magnesium in your system. The magnesium is really, really, really important for that migrating motor complex. It could be that as well, so light, you know having good luck noting magnesium is important
Evan Brand: Yeah, we’ll give people different forms of magnesium to help move the needle with the bowels, but you still got to work backwards, right. You can’t just live on magnesium citrate for example every day, because there’s probably a root cause that’s it’s causing that constipation is really really common. You know, of course we know adrenals are tied into the gut and thyroid tied into the gut and hypothyroidism may slow the bowels down. So there may be 3, 4, 5, 6 factors that we’re looking at to make sure the bowels are moving, but magnesium is definitely a part of the picture.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. Yeah, 100%. Alright, so in general, let’s just kind of dive in any other things magnesium can be helpful for. So we also know I highlighted the big three, right? We talked about what causes these deficiencies, we talked about pesticide, and slash around up and efficiency of the soil, we talked about stress, talked about sugar and guess one more we should highlight, Evan. I think that would be in general and maybe two more, so just having poor digestion. So if we have got permeability issues aka leaky gut and we have low hydrochloric acid and enzyme levels, that could be partly caused by SIBO or H pylori or some type of gut infection. That could easily be driving a lot of deficiency because we know we need good hydrochloric acid levels to be able to ionize our magnesium so we can absorb it. Ionized minerals that basically are making the minerals more absorbable so we can break them down.
Evan Brand: Well, how about just age, I mean by the time you’re age 50, age 60, you look at Dr. Wright’s book on stomach acid. I mean, you’re making hardly any stomach acid by that age so we could just say, ‘hey if you’re above age 50, you’re probably magnesium deficient unless you’re supplementing a couple other benefits,I would say headaches’ You know, headaches, even migraine headaches, you can really really improve your symptoms with, with magnesium and then we did mention the sleep I would just say the — what do you call those charley horses in your gaffes? Yeah like cramp or B niculae shoes. Yep, I remember being a kid having those charley horses in my calves. I wish I would have had magnesium oil back then I’m sure it would have helped.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, yeah absolutely! So we kind of hit the big major causes and the last cause I had– Oh last one and don’t yet is medications. Medications are a big big driving factor of magnesium deficiency. So one of the big ones, I call it the vicious cycle and you see this happen when you are prescribed a medication, and that medication creates a certain nutrient deficiency and that nutrient actually helps with the symptoms– that the medication was prescribed with to begin with. So creates a vicious cycle so for instance a lot of diuretics and beta blockers they cause you to excrete out magnesium but magnesium is also really important for relaxing the blood vessels and relaxing the heart. So then you excrete more of that nutrient that actually helps with the heart helps with the blood pressure and the vasculature so it’s actually perpetuating the more need for that medication longer and longer and longer, so it really creates a vicious cycle not the best business model if you’re trying to actually get to the root cause.
Evan Brand: Yeah, blood pressure drugs – you mentioned diuretics. You could basically consider blood pressure drugs diuretic, right? That’s kind of the mechanism of them.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We’ll you get a couple right there’s like ace inhibitors which are the.. it’s blocking the angiotensin converting enzyme that helps raise blood pressure. There’s gonna be just like water pills like lisinopril hydrochlorothiazide diuretics, that flush things out. Those are the two big ones they’re arms I think, ARBs– those are the other ones and then there’s beta blockers which basically there’s just calcium ion thing that has to happen in the heart at the sinoatrial and atrial ventricular node where the heart beats and it basically blocks that calcium there which decreases the heart from pumping as hard. But the thing is magnesium actually does that naturally. So you have natural beta blockers in the form of magnesium, but you can see these medications can decrease your internal levels of magnesium and then you need more of the medication to have that physiological effect.
Evan Brand: God, yeah. If you’re in the business of making money, create a drug that depletes the nutrient that the heart actually needs to do. A job do its job so then they’re dependent on the heart drug. I mean, it’s just insanity. All right. Let’s get into symptoms a bit so it’s basically the opposite of all the benefits. Right, so we’ve mentioned benefits like relaxation.. okay so lead so the symptom or side effect of magnesium deficiency, could be anxiety, it could be trouble sleeping, it could be leg cramps or restless leg, it could be a blood pressure like we just talked about, you know. Blood pressure issues that are uncontrolled just hypertension in general.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: What else? What else is on the, the bad things, the symptoms.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I mean tremors vertigo which is hard time swallowing nausea, tired, fatigue, anxiety, depression — I mean these are all things that potentially can be there. Sleep issues, epilepsy, asthma, depression, cardiac issues, cardiac pain, PMS, I mean, I see it a lot women that have magnesium deficiency a lot of women that are going into premenstrual symptoms. Guess what they start to crave. They start to crave dark chocolate. Why? Because dark chocolates very high in magnesium, so a lot of women intuitively crave dark chocolate ‘cuz their body knows that there’s certain nutrients in there that will actually help a lot of that cramping. So magnesium is really important for cramping and we can actually increase it during right before a woman starts to menstruate and or during and after to help relax the muscles.
Evan Brand: Yeah, just because it’s common to have PMS and cramping doesn’t mean it’s normal. So you like to say, you know, a woman’s menstrual cycle it really just kind of sneak up on you. It should just come and all the sudden. Oh, you’re bleeding there we go as opposed to a week of misery irritability anger, I mean–
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. I want to just highlight one thing before we move on. Let’s just go over the family of medications, the tend to deplete magnesium. So we have the acid blocking medications, right? Your prilosec, your nexium, your santa, we already talked about the mechanism, why? Because we need enough acid to essentially ionize those minerals so we can absorb it. We have the blood pressure medications, we talked about that whether it’s the water pills or whether it’s the beta blockers or the ACE inhibitors or the ARB medication, we talked about those. So lasix, a lot of people get put on lasix, not good yet. Lasix, that’s a diuretic of digoxin. It’s another one that’s a heart medication that will deplete magnesium certain hormones can, as well birth control pills are known to and this is another vicious cycle. So a lot of women, they’re on birth control pills, maybe an antidepressant, maybe they’re on an acid blocker, you can see how if you’re on a combination of those medications. You are in trouble so various hormones did whether it’s estradiol or estrogen creams. The various oral contraceptives like the ethanol estradiol, those are like a lot of the birth control pills, like the Yasmin or etc, various ethanol estradiol compounds, ADHD medications methylphenidate medication, this is like ritalin concerta medidate adderall and then also various antibiotics. Antibiotics, whether it’s amoxicillin or z-pak levaquin minocycline, these antibiotics can deplete magnesium and then also corticosteroids and corticosteroids have a major effect they increased blood sugar as well. So when you increase blood sugar, that’s gonna also affect the metabolism of magnesium. So with various corticosteroids, whether it’s hydrocortisone cream or prednisone or methaprednisone, these are all gonna be big ones there, and I think it’s a pre.. pretty pretty good way to start. So antacids acid blocking blood pressure medications, hormones, oral contraceptives, ADHD medications, antibiotics and corticosteroids.
Evan Brand: Yeah, let’s take Johnny who can’t pay attention in school. Let’s put him on a t-888 medication, so now he focuses and then used to put it in magnesium. So now, he’s anxious and now the doctor says, ‘well now we need to calm him down, so let’s get him on a benzodiazepine to calm him down in the evening and then we’ll stimulate him in the morning with the ADHD medication’.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah crazy. I mean you can.
Evan Brand: Yeah. It doesn’t have to happen this way. I mean, in our case you know we could come in we see something like ADHD, we could throw more magnesium in, we could throw in chlorella and detox nutrients, help deliver help the gut, I mean, we work with so many kids that the teacher is like blown away at the progress. They see and this is all relatively simple stuff, I mean, once you get the root causes, you get the clinical data, you get the proper lab testing, you can see what the heck’s going on. Then you can fix it you don’t have to get the kids on drugs it’s just ridiculous.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, especially boys. Boys tend to have the harder time sitting you know, still for six hours as you get into grade school. So boys tend to get prescribed a lot of these medications. Just you know, it’s easier for them because they tend to have a harder time sitting still and focusing. So be careful if you have a boy, you know you really got to watch out because these medications tend to be what’s prescribed. If they don’t comply, so if you’re in that kind of public school type of apparatus and your child’s not conforming, you got to be careful because this is the the vicious medication cycle that may be prescribed to get your your kid on track. Now obviously, girls are gonna be there too but you’re gonna see just more boys being prescribed these medications. So in general, what are things that we can do so we can obviously make sure we’re consuming nutrient-rich magnesium foods? Now of course, this is gonna be like your leafy green. So of course leafy greens, celery juice in the morning is great, good potassium, good magnesium, you can do seeds, pumpkin seeds are amazing, spinach, Swiss chard, sesame seeds, cashews — so good seeds. Packing your kid a snack with Goods nuts and seeds to go to school is amazing. If we’re gonna give some carbohydrates, you know, we can do squash, we can do sweet potato, these are all great we can do. Various greens, turnip greens, beet grains, these are amazing ways to get extra nutrition in your kid. Also getting a good magnesium supplement. So if we’re on a good stuff that we want to be on, like a magnesium alloy or a magnesium glycinate, so really good way to go and there are other sources like natural calm, which is more of a magnesium citrate. It’s a little bit more cost effective. I’ll use that more for motility purposes, but if we’re trying to enhance mitochondrial function and get mitochondrial levels up or magnesium levels up, we’ll do like a magnesium dimalate or magnesium glycinate or even a magnesium 3 and a 3 and 8 tends to be really good to cross the brain barren. We have a lot of inflammation and brain thought magnesium 3 and it can be great if we’re trying to improve mitochondrial levels and energy and improve mitochondrial levels for magnesium, you know using magnesium to do that we’ll do a diet malate, and then glycinate is really good as well. Just because we’re, but it’s really well absorb glycine and malli are very well absorbed compounds or amino acid. Do the cheaper ones are gonna be citrate, the most cheap is going to be oxide, typically only for bowel motility citrate more for bowel motility, but some absorption and then maximal absorption will be dimalate 3 and 8 and glycinate.
Evan Brand: Yeah. I love the 3 and 8. It’s huge. The oxide is garbage if you go to Walmart, you by magnesium it’s probably gonna be oxide, it’s around 4% absorption rate. So let’s say you go to take 100 milligrams, you may give 4 milligrams assuming you even digest it. If it’s a tablet filled with fillers, and corn, and gluten and other garbage, you may not even absorb 4 milligrams, you know. So you’re probably doing more harm than good, if you’re taking just a consumer grade product, you always want to go professional-grade with this stuff because there’s a huge difference. It may say magnesium on the label, but what you’re actually getting is you know far different in a professional grade formula.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. 100 percent, 100 percent.
Evan Brand: If you’re not working with a practitioner, you know, seek one out. If you want to work with Justin or me, we’d be happy to help you but if you are working with the practitioner, make sure they’re giving you professional magnesium. I’m a huge fan of supplementing magnesium and not just depending on the diet alone, because it’s tough. I mean, if you look at like pumpkin seeds for example, I want to say it was around like a hundred milligrams for 1/4 of a cup, I mean, and how many pumpkin seeds are you really gonna eat in a day, right? So if you’re doing that and then a sweet potato I think was around like 40 milligrams for an average size sweet potato, so let’s say you’re at 140, you’re still nowhere close to getting that four or five hundred milligrams, right? So I think it’s important to just throw a little extra in the hatch even if you’re just supplementing in, like 1 2 3 400 milligrams a day, to me that’s a good insurance policy.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%, and I would just say let’s kind of go through kind of the RDA. Now, the RDA, I’ve heard it said many times before. RDA stands for rat drugs and assumptions, meaning a lot of the studies are done on rats or animals, or and they’re kind of like a minimum assumptive value. So kind of like take the RDA with the grain of salt and you probably want to have a couple of hundred milligrams of buffer room in there because we want to have enough nutrition for optimal health, not just to prevent symptoms. So in general, explain what party a is people like when do what is he saying, the RDA already has recommended dietary allowances, so this is based off of the data that’s available. Hey, this is how much you need as a, you know, this is how much magnesium he’s taking a day. Okay that’s the general gist now for your typical adult anywhere between 19 to 30 years old male is gonna need 400 milligrams. A female’s underneath 310 milligrams, it goes up slightly as you go above the age of 30, it goes to 424 men, 324 women, and it kind of stays there. You’re actually gonna see a decreased amount during pregnancy, I’m not sure if and when they say that Evan, if the pregnancy is in addition to a typical amount, I’m not sure if they’re meaning an additional. I would always typically go up, so they’re saying during pregnancy and lactation 350 to 310, that’s a drop in what the typical woman would need, so I’m gonna guess that that’s gonna be, you know, we’re gonna do on top of that. We’re gonna do more on top of that or maybe, maybe they just said that to try to be conservative, but I would think to even more important during pregnancy. Yeah I guess there’s an increase if you’re a adult female from 310 to 350 during pregnancy but only forward at 40 milligrams. I don’t know so in general, about you’re looking at 400 I typically recommend 500 milligrams a day of supplemental or at least getting that amount of magnesium, typically we’ll cut that in half and we’ll set them at about 2 to 250 so I like getting about half of it supplemented. That way, it takes a lot of the stress off your back. So if you get 4 to 5 servings of vegetables a day, maybe, maybe a little bit of nuts or seeds you’re good. Some people have allergy issues, right? They have oxalate issues or they have allergies to nuts and seeds, and then supplements are gonna be even more important, but typically, if you’re getting your five or six servings of green today, maybe a handful of nuts, you’re gonna be pretty darn good and again it cuts in half if you’re younger. You’re looking at anywhere between a baby at 75 to a teenager at 250 and it jumps up from age 13 to 14 from 250 to 400, so is a big increase in the amount of magnesium, when as you go from a kid to teenage years and then teenage to adult so big big increases, and I think part of the reason you see ADHD issues or hyperactivity or attention deficit issues is because you have this big metabolic demand increase at age 8 to 9– it doubles and then it doubles again at 13-14, so that’s perfect years for the elementary school and a middle school those magnesium demands go up a lot, so if we don’t have enough supplemental magnesium your kid could be in, you know, deficient and that could drive more of these ADHD medications, you know, obviously sugar gluten dyes preservatives artificial sweeteners. These are all gonna be other mechanisms that are gonna add to that stress bucket, so to speak.
Evan Brand: Yeah, well said. That’s a really interesting thought that we see the change these kids, it’s like, ‘oh when they got the middle school all the sudden they couldn’t pay attention anymore so huh’, well the man went up if diet didn’t change or didn’t improve or supplements weren’t added, now all of a sudden you’re even more deficient and then the symptoms manifest more than they would have before. Super super interesting point man and–
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’ve noticed kids diets tend to get worse, right, when, when the kids are at home more and they have they’re more under their parents thumb and they haven’t been exposed to a whole bunch of marketing, they’re eating better as they start hanging out with kids that have eat junky food. They want to be part of the in-crowd, they’re eating worse, they’re also exposed more to commercials and being out and about and being just being promoted and propagandized to buy the junk food, food history then you get to more of the junk which we already know creates more functional deficiencies.
Evan Brand: Yep, so if you got a teenager and they just got their license, and they’re running around going to all the fast-food joints with their friends, have them listen to this, you know, we work with a lot of teenagers it’s really fun for me because I’m like ‘hey, look if you can get this diet thing figured out now when you’re 16 as opposed to waiting till you’re 46 and miserable like you’re gonna be in way better shape, way more successful, well your brain is gonna work better, you’ll be smarter than your peers, you’ll get better grades’, I mean, when you when you frame it like that usually they’re more compliant as opposed to mom says you need to eat your vegetables.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%, and it becomes really tough because I get a lot of kids may feel ostracized or they just see their other friends eating so much junk and it’s like they want to feel included, it’s just tough. We have a massive deficiency in education especially in and around the area of health and nutrition, so you have a lot of people that are just walking around clueless and they’re kind of just poisoning their self in a very, you know, kind of slow motion type of way, so it’s easy. The more educated you feel, the more ostracize you may feel, I get that so just do your best to get yourself feeling optimal, get the Kryptonite out of your system, right, kryptonite’s what makes Superman weak, so get the Kryptonite out and then do your best just to connect with people that are on a similar wavelength so you don’t feel like you’re the the high maintenance person. When you, when you want to eat some green vegetables or some some nuts of seeds or healthy dietary supplements, so just try to find people that resonate kind of where you’re at therefore you feel more supported and what you’re doing.
Evan Brand: Good advice! Yeah, I was always like the the black sheep, you know, when I was working in offices eating, can you know what I consider my conventional diet like a bison steak and peas, and buttered people would get pizza and sandwiches for lunch, you want to say what it is like, no I don’t so if you’re getting judged for your food choices, and you’re eating good stuff then you just need to change your circle. That’s good advice.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. Awesome, was there anything else you want to chat about here, Evan? I’m gonna put some of the references that we use for this article up with that RDA screenshot up there as well so everyone can see it and look at it. We’ll put it in the transcription page so if you guys are listening to this on our podcast or a YouTube channel, click below and look for that transcription then you guys can get more of this information there as well.
Evan Brand: I would just add, this is one, you know, we like to zoom out a lot and look at the big picture, but this is one example where I think it’s really important to zoom in and hyper focus on magnesium, because it does so many things. There’s so many enzymatic processes and react actions and things that are happening. Its magnesium is such a catalyst for brain chemistry and neurotransmitters as you mentioned, mitochondria, I mean there’s magnesium dabbles in every part of your body, so I think this is one example where you have to zoom in a bit. We often like that make fun of things when people who zoom too far in and they miss the big picture, but this is where you really need that microscope. You got to focus on this issue because it can change your life and you can measure this too, so you can look at the red blood cell magnesium levels on blood work and there’s other ways you can look at magnesium as well. If you want help, you’ve got issues, if it’s just anxiety it could be something as simple as magnesium, it could be gut infections, I mean, there could be mold issues. I mean, there’s a ton of other things going on, so if you do have some of the symptoms we discussed like blood pressure problems, you’re facing being put on medication, etc, you know reach out the just under me we’d love to help you. You can find Justin’s info in his calendar link, check his availability, that’s at his site, justinhealth.com and you can work online around in the world. And my site’s evanbrand.com. We love helping people we’re very honored and blessed to be in the position we are. So thank you all for tuning in.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent! Also, we did a whole thing on flow therapy a few weeks ago, and we talked about the magnesium sulfate. Getting magnesium sulfate sulfate to the epsom salts that are gonna be in a flow tank or magnesium sulfate through epsom salts you put in your standard bath, that’s gonna be an amazing way to get more magnesium especially if you have gut issues. Because when you put it in the water like that, you just have your whole surface area to absorb it, right? So you’re gonna have a ton of absorption, some questions came in, how much? I’m not sure. There’s probably some studies on that but that’s probably gonna increase your absorption the most, and I think if you’re having a long hard stressful day at work instead of coming home and drinking that alcohol, just go take a salt bath or head over to your local flow tank business and get some exposure to magnesium via transdermal to the skin.
Evan Brand: It would be cool to do a, you know, but it’s… it’s hard, right, because there’s other variables like, you know, what if that person started doing like a green juice everyday, and they got more my knees in that way. But let’s just say if no other variables change, they’d be cool to take a pre blood sample for the intracellular magnesium. Have someone float, you know, once or twice a week for like six weeks and then retest and see what they did. I guarantee you’d see pretty significant improve minutes, I mean, you’re talking 800 pounds usually of Epsom salt. That’s insane.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly, and then last thing is testing for magnesium so you have your typical magnesium serum which will be on like a comprehensive metabolic profile magnesium serum we went above – but magnesium serum that looks at like imagine your suit in a pool, right, and you’re in a little inner tube, right, right. And then you have the water, right, the water is the serum so think of magnesium serum is testing the magnesium in the water, right, and then magnesium red blood cell magnesium is actually looking what’s in the inner tube, right, so the cell is the inner tube, the serum is the blood, so serum, it’s okay, but we want to see what’s in the inner tube. So red blood cell magnesium’s ideal, we want that greater than 5, 5 or greater and we typically can also use other tests like a nutri eval, or a spectra cell, which is kind of a lymphocyte stimulation test where we can get another intracellular, intracellular window into what those nutrient levels are at, but those kind of your general gist in regards to magnesium and how to test for it. Anything else you want to say about testing, Evan?
Evan Brand: I think you covered it. Did, were there any other questions related, I didn’t have those pulled up.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I would just say most we kind of hid a lot of them already. I would say if you’re under more stress, you can’t go wrong taking more magnesium. Magnesium helps facilitate GABA, which helps kind of turn on the parasympathetic nervous system and relaxes you. Some people, if you get too relaxed with magnesium, taking it more at night can be better because then you’re it’s you know you’re gonna go to sleep. So it’s great. So if it’s too sedating for you, take it more at night after work kind of when you’re doing your wind-down routine. It’s a great way to do it, I think, we pretty much hit all on a maj, a lot of major things. B6 is another important cofactor we like with magnesium, because it helps with neurotransmitter synthesis so B6 is really good typically when people are stressed, B vitamins are equally depleted with magnesium because of just how stress works. Magnesium and B vitamins are part of the Krebs and they’re gonna get burnt up when you’re stressed so it’s very possible that you need to be taking a good B complex along with your magnesium just because the stress may be affecting all of those different parts of the metabolic system.
Evan Brand: Good call, good call. All right, I just wrap it up that would, I mean, I mentioned the website, so justinhealth.com, you want to reach out to Justin. Evanbrand.com is my website. And we’ll be back next Monday. I’m sure you’re gonna do something in between now and then, but I’ll be back Monday with you.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent. If you guys like it, thumbs up, hit the subscribe button, hit the bell, give us a share, we love it if you’re enjoying this. Think about friends or family that could benefit as well, and then also put your comments down below. Love to hear what your comments are. This helps guide us in choosing future topics that we want to chat about, so we really want your input. Thanks to everyone. Have a phenomenal day. Take care Evan. See you, bye bye.
Evan Brand: Bye.
Gut Health and Anxiety | Podcast #227
The good bacteria in our gut are the ones responsible for the chemicals in our brain. Inflammation or anything that can affect your gut especially when it comes to digesting nutrients can cause a big impact on your brain chemicals. But how does really your gut affect or cause anxiety? Find out more!
Today’s episode talks about giving importance to the gut health which is the one responsible for the digestion of our food and vitamins that are needed by our body. One deficiency in the vitamins needed by our body can already affect our brain chemicals, thus creating mood issues and cause anxiety. Listen as Dr. J discusses the topic together with Evan Brand which gives his own personal experience to highlight the importance of gut health. Continue to find out that anxiety is more than just anxiety. Stay tuned.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani
In this episode, we cover:
00:35 Effect of Various Medications, Digestion and Brain Chemicals
08:12 Lab Testing
11:05 Bad Bacterias
12:22 Home and Environment
19:44 Seeing the Whole Picture
16:55 Adrenal Testing
24:48 Thyroid Issues
26:24 Blood Sugar Level Optimization
Evan Brand: Yeah man, me too. So I’ll just start with my personal, and I don’t know if you experience much anxiety. I don’t think you’ve ever really said “Hey, I’ve had anxiety” but I definitely did, when I had gut infections. When I had ___[0:35], when I had parasites, when I had bacterial overgrowth, when I had candida overgrowth and when I had kind of a quadruple ___[0:43] that I really think stemmed from me during a round of antibiotics after I got my wisdom teeth and my 12-year molar extracted, you know I had a round of antibiotics after both of those procedures. I think that’s what led to the candida and then probably started to tore away, uh, tear away my gut barrier and then I ended up getting leaky gut situation. You go swimming Barton springs a few times, you swallow some creek water, you get some parasites down in your gut and then all of a sudden everything falls apart and you’re anxious for no reason. So that was at least my, my story, my unusual experience with anxiety ‘cause I’m not an anxious person by nature, but that made me anxious when I had those gut bugs.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally makes sense. I mean gut health is so important because all of your nutrients get absorbed through your gut. So, just a kind of review of physiology because we wanna connect the physiology and the biochemistry to why you feel the way you feel. That way you’re not just taking doctor’s orders, you’re understanding how these things are working. So, so we have our stomach, where we chew up our food, we swallow, it goes down our esophagus into our stomach. Digestion starts when the mouth gets chewing so just chewing up our good proteins is gonna be huge. That starts the digestion process and increases the surface area for hydrochloric acid, and enzymes in the stomach. So we increase hydrochloric acid in the stomach that lowers the pH it makes it more acidic, like ‘cause pH is lower. And that activates certain ___[02:07] enzymes in our stomach like ___[02:08] which starts that protein digestion process, that nicely enters, that enters into our small intestine, which then triggers ___[02:16] so we start breaking down the fat, fats are important because vitamin A, D, E, and K have instrumental effects on our physiology. Fats ___[02:25] vitamins especially, uhm, you know vitamin d for example, for instance has some effects at helping with mood as well. And we also know vitamin K, and vitamin A are really important for, uh, thyroid function and we know thyroid can have a major implication on mood as well, so low vitamin A, low thyroid. But in general all of these proteins and amino acids and even these minerals, these tranquilizing minerals, like magnesium, help our body relax. They chill out our heart, they chill out our mood. ___[02:55] amino acids get broken down in our stomach. They get ionized in our stomach and get reabsorbed again our small intestine. So we know that digestive processes are so important for these nutrients getting to where they need be is important so we can feel good.
Evan Brand: Talking to your microphone go close like this.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: I’m not sure if that’s – I think you might be using your built in microphone.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh lemme double check that.
Evan Brand: ‘Cause I sounds a little echoey. Go on, uh, go on your little gear box on Hangouts there, see if you see
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh yep, you’re right. How about now?
Evan Brand: Much – a million times better.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, I apologize for that everyone. So we got a better mic up and ready to go, ex-
Evan Brand: We, we still heard you but, now we’ve got that show, that studio quality gone.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it.
Evan Brand: So here’s the deal. Everything you said makes a perfect sense, assuming, you’re actually digesting and assimilating all these nutrients and breaking everything down like you said. And so where the domino goes bad, I mean for a lot of people, it’s just being prescribed in acid blocking medication. So you may think, well, how in the world does anxiety tie in to me being ___[02:55] or some acid blocker. Uhm, the way Justin described it, it was perfect. You take all these amino acids from your dietary protein, assuming you’re eating those. You know for eating a bagel, and, you know, cream cheese for breakfast, that’s not gonna cut it, you know. We’re eating a good, you know, we’re eating a good quality meat, a bacon, a sausage, you know handful of pecans, uh, half of avocado, you know, some blueberries, that’s a hell of a breakfast. If you’re eating that, you’re gonna beginning some amino acids that can be broken down and therefore turned into, for one, create muscle tissue-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: ___[02:55]
Evan Brand: Uh, create neurotransmitters. But, if you’re on an acid blocker because you had heartburn and you in one visit with your doctor and they say “Okay you need to be on an acid blocker” you could start that whole domino effect against your health just from something that simple and then you end up with anxiety so then you get referred to your psychiatric doctor and they put you on Xanax and, and, and it’s not a Xanax deficiency, it was the acid blocker messed up our digestion, your digestion issues created the inability for you to absorb your amino acids and make brain chemicals. Now you’re anxious and depressed, so then you get put on anti-depressants. So before you know it in three seconds you’re on an anti-depressants, an anti-anxiety, and on acid blocker. And then maybe you can’t sleep good because just as mentioned you’re breaking down these relaxing things like you’re getting magnesium from your diet. So if you don’t have enough of that, or let’s say you don’t have enough B6 to convert serotonin to melatonin, now you’re not sleeping well so then you get on the fourth med which is a sleep drug. I mean this is how what happens, this is why an average person is on multiple pharmaceuticals.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and I don’t even think you talked about uh, cholesterol medications on there as well, right?
Evan Brand: No I didn’t.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Because cholesterol is gonna be the building block for all your hormones so then you have, maybe your cholesterol’s starting to creep up because of inflammation or you’re doing too much carbohydrate which stimulates insulin, insulin jacks up your cholesterol inflammation will also do it too, so for eating inflammatory foods that could do it. And then now your cholesterol’s high, you’re prescribed to ___[05:58] and then the ___[05:59] gonna decrease your, uhm, ___[06:01] production so now your ___[06:02] lower. Your building blocks for your hormones are lower and we know ___[06:05] have other conitive mood side effects as well so that’s gonna create more issues. And then from there after that you’re on a libido medication like a viagra, uhm, or something like or xalexa to help with ED and that’s create more side effects and more issues and then God forbid you got some mood issues. You go, if you’re a female now, you got top your conventional doctor, their typically gonna recommend birth control pill or even ___[06:33] on top of that, then you’re just screwed. Because stacking one medication on top of another medication and then all these medication have various side effects that you treat with other medications. And then these medications also create nutritional deficiency. So birth control pills will lower Magnesium, Zinc and certain B vitamins which are really important in ethylating ___[06:55] your neuro transmitters so it’s just really important especially Magnesium for calming and relaxing your heart. For helping, let’s say, be the shifter between your sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous system. Meaning, parasympathetic, relaxation. Sympathetic, stress, go, go, go. We need the ability to downshift from sympathetic of stress and go, to the parasympathetic, relaxation and chill out.
Evan Brand: Well let’s add one more drug to the mix, that are hundred, that are hundred million Americans are on which is blood pressure medication.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -Right.
Evan Brand: And Valsartan and all these commonly prescribed blood pressure medications are all getting recalled now due to containing carcinogenic chemical, you know. There’s like, this type in Valsartan cancer, you can look the research yourself, and these people get put on blood pressure medication because they can’t regulate their blood pressure because as you mentioned, you lose that parasympathetic-sympathetic balance, you’re depleted in Magnesium because you’re not digesting, because you got gut infections or you’re on acid blocker. So now you’re acid blocker, antianxiety, antidepressant, you’re on like you said, Xalexa, and now you’re on blood pressure, and then you’re on ___[08:01] at all the same time. None of that is gonna, you know, none of that is gonna contribute to a long healthy life.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: No, none of it will, man. So really important, we’re trying to get to the root underlying cause here. So, let’s shift gears on the lab testing. There are some lab testing we go to see what’s going on. Number one, just looking at your digestion. Just doing a comprehensive gut test, look at inflammation in your gut. Inflammation in our br- inflammation in our gut will create an inflammation in our brain. That activates the cell called microglial cell, which are essentially immune cells in our brain. When they are activated, they will create a, you know, brain fog. So you know, you know obviously that the more foggy you are, the more anxious you could feel as well. So inflammation in the gut could create inflammation in the brain. So we gotta look at gut functions. We wanna look at a comprehensive gut test, that’s gonna assess inflammation in the gut, like ___[08:50]. Wanna look at your IGA, your immune levels, because your immune system is over active, that could be a sucking up a lot of resources, right. So, for instance, the more your immune system is overactive, that’s like the equivalent of you, let’s just say, leaving the water on in one of the guest bedrooms in your house that you never go to. Water builds huge, and you don’t know why, because you’re not using a lot of water but there’s water being used in the background, it’s kinda like that. You have all these immune resources that are being used in the background, cause your immune system is chronically firing off, so your immune function. Next is looking at various candida overgrowth, yeast overgrowth, which have a huge effect because they produce various acid ___[09:32] and toxic byproducts. And they also create chemicals that makes you crave a whole bunch of sugary stuff. So it becomes harder to stay on a good diet to your template. Next would be SIBO or various bacterial overgrowth. Whether it’s ___[09:44 – 09:48]. These are all bacterial overgrowth that are despotic meaning bad, so we have more of the bad stuff and less of the beneficial probiotics like lactobacillus ___[09:55] and then we have various parasitic infections. ___[10:00 – 10:06] various parasitic infections. And ___[10:08] h pylori which is some kind of bacterial infection too, or worms.
Evan Brand: I’ve seen a lot of crypto the last few weeks, it’s very interesting because during the winter I didn’t see much crypto so I don’t know if that’s because people, for their self maybe are like, Texas, Florida, California clients maybe they’re getting back in Creekson rivers or streams or lakes for the season or what. But I haven’t seen much crypto and then over the last three weeks I’ve seen, I don’t know, probably fifteen to twenty people, including children, even as young as age 2 or 3 years old,
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: (Crosstalk.) Wow.
Evan Brand: Those cryptosprodium, I tell you for personal experience it causes a lot of stomach pain, nausea, it can cause appetite swing, or sometimes you sit down at the dinner table you just can’t eat, you’re just not hungry and obviously, anxiety belong with that because now, if you’re getting robbed of your nutrition because of crypto, you’re not gonna be absorbing your amino acids, and then you can’t make your ___[11:01] for example. Now, you’re tired, you’re wired, you’re stressed, and you just don’t know why. So, um, you did a great job on talking about stool test, you mentioned the candida, we, you find candida on the stool test when you and I look at that. However, we often find it more accurately on the organic acids panel because we’re gonna measure the gases that candida produces rather than the actual candida itself. So in the stool, we’re trying to find the DNA of candida which is a little harder to do, so we often see a lot of false negatives on stool testing. So this is why, we just can’t quickly compare or contrast your conventional gastroenterologist that you get referred to. They’re not gonna be running these type of tests, maybe on ten or twenty years, that could be the whole standard, for right now they’re not running these tests. So even if they did they called it “stool test”, their stool test could not be probably as intensive as the technology we are using because we are kinda on the bleeding edge here. So that being said, the organic acids’ profile, we’’l look at the gacids. And when we look at the gacids, you can also look at the other fungus too, so we can even look at the things in their environment like mold, because on page 1, of the ___[12:05] there’s different markers that hide in candida but there’s also different markers that we’ve found that indicate ___[12:11] of mold. So you could have mold in your sinus cavity as so close to your brain it can go to the blood brain barrier and that will cause anxiety too. So now we’re talking about, fixing someone’s sinus infection as well as fixing their gut infection, and fixing their home environment. Their home environment because potentially as we’ve seen people like in Florida had one client who shits too much candida in their house. We did this little petri dishes for her house, she shits so much candida in her house, so much anxiety and we fixed her gut and three months later she’s got a white tongue again. The candida comes back and so we give her herbs again, her gut gets better, and then candida comes back. Say we need to test your house, so we test her house, the candida in her house is off the chart. So now what we did is we did the fogger, we fogged her house with the essential oils and the candida in the house is gone. So now she’s staying free and clear of the candida overgrowth. So, this is why you gotta take a step than even the functional medicine people saying “fix the gut, fix the gut, fix the gut” now you gotta fix the home, microbio home as well as well as your internal microbio home. You can’t just cherry pick.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and for every person this may not be the root issue but it’s important. Yeah especially if we can do history and you feel bad or coming out of the house or we can even just start with a decent play testing. And even from the ___[13:26] micro toxin collection after that and if we can see, we can put a check in each one of those boxes ___[13:34] confidence that what we have to start dealing with the home environment right?
Evan Brand: Yeah, exactly yes. The home, you know, like, like you said it’s not everyone. Like, I’m kinda over paranoid about the issue now so I’m checking some of the houses. But I’m only finding maybe 20% of the people were testing their home or showing up with the problem. There’s a lot of people coming out, their home is perfectly fine and I just say you know what for a hundred fifty bucks US it’s worth the peace of mind. Work the plates, check your numbers, and worst case scenario I’m wrong and your home is not contributing to your anxiety or other health problems.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I hundred percent agree, and also uhm, one of the things that you brought to my attention is very interesting is that you may have no history of water damage or no apparent water damage in your house at all but you may just have a high amount of moisture in your house because of the climate you live in, and one of the things that you did was you invested in a good quality dehumidifier attached to your ___[14:29] to pull the humidity out of the air. Which then makes harder for mold to grow because mold needs that humidity over fifty percent in the house for it to grow so you were able to decrease the humidity because there’s certain times where you may not have an air-conditioner on. Uhm because you know it’s, it’s sixty or seventy degrees out or fifty degrees out but the humidity still high even though the temperature’s low and that’s one of the benefits that you have of having a cool house to humidifier attached to your ___[14:56] to suck out that moisture which prevents the fuel source for this mold to grow.
Evan Brand: Right, and in the spring you’d love to have the windows open right so actually we did this over the weekend, we opened up all the windows. There was one day we have like seventy, seventy-two degrees out so it’s perfect. We opened all the windows up but then I go downstairs and I heard the dehumidifier’s running just in overtime and I go look at the percentage and their up to fifty two percent. So people they opened up their window and mold grows on fifty or above. When you’re like oh, the weather’s beautiful, let’s leave the window’s open for a week straight, you know, or let’s leave the windows open all night or let’s leave the windows open every day all day. That’s allowing all that moist air from outside, assuming that’s the climate’s moist, to come inside, and that’s increasing the humidity in the home. I love the idea, you know, open the windows, ten to fifteen minutes a day, let fresh air come in, wash out from all the ___[15:46], wash out from all the VOCs in your home, but, you don’t wanna do it all the time. A friend of mine, a mutual friend of our’s, Daniel Vitalessi, who lives up in Maine, it’s so moist up there. Uh, I can’t, I don’t remember the full details but I remember him saying about having a mold problem on his previous houses, and it might consider at the podcast, he left his windows open all the time. ‘Cause he like to live in the woods, and he love the sounds of nature and all that so he had his windows open all the time. But I mean all that moisture was just forming on his window sills and so you gotta, you gotta think about the building materials that we’re using. Like our ancestors they were outside all the time, you know, but they had like a buffalo hide, they had bison hide, you know, they didn’t have dry wall, and uh, you know, treated wood and all those sort of stuff. They didn’t have the same building materials that we used today. So, try to compare, “Oh my grandma she lived in the summer and she have air conditioning and her windows are open all the time,” yeah, but her house wasn’t probably made with modern dry wall. So those materials could withstand moisture, our modern day materials are more moisture sensitive.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. Yup, hundred-
Evan Brand: It’s a bit of a tangible. Let’s go back to the testing. So, we didn’t talk about adrenal testing for anxiety, I mean that was one of my problems too is, uh, I would feel pretty good during the day but then at night I would feel anxious before I would go to bed, and I have that night time spike of cortisol that we often see.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, so what we do is we look at the cortisol rhythm throughout the day and then the cortisol rhythm gives you a window to how your cortisol, how the outer part of your adrenal glands are doing. So we look at this high to low to lower to lowest type of taper. These tapers are important because it’s set by our HPA access. So we start to see these regulations lower by the morning or higher at night or it’s kind of bouncing around like we call the pinball effect. It’s pinballing that could create mood issues number one. Number two, we also look at the inner part of the adrenal glands called the medulla which make a lot of adrenaline. Adrenaline or no adrenaline, same thing as epinephrine and norepinephrine, medicine uses a lot of words to say the same thing. So, we’d also wanna look at that, ‘cause if we’re really stimulating a lot of adrenaline or no adrenaline that’s helpful to know so we’d wanna run a good cortisol rhythm test to look at free and total cortisol which is great. We’d also wanna look at some of the uh, amino acid metabolizer or some of these neurotransmitters. Like, we’d look at vanilmandelate to get a window at adrenaline metabolism. We’d look at homovanillate to get a window to dopamine metabolism. And also you’d wanna get a window into B6 because B6, especially at folate and B12 are really important for methylation. And a lot of these brain chemicals like epinephrine and adrenaline, ___[18:28] they need to get methylated. So we, we need these carbon hydrogens to bind it to methylated, to activate it and that requires sulphur amino acids so if we’re excessively stressed or really methylating our brain chemicals ‘sause we’re making a lot of adrenaline, we’re gonna be burying under a lot of sulphur amino acids as well. And we need sulphur amino acids also to detoxify, we may not have a lot of extra sulphur left over to run ___[18:58] we may not have enough of these sulphur compounds to run these other accessory pathways which are really important for what? Detoxifying us from mold, heavy metals, various organic chlorine, pesticides, or stressors in the environment so that’s why it’s really important to look at these other accessory nutrients that are involved in the stress handling response.
Evan Brand: Yeah, let’s take what you said. Let’s dig further. So now you’re deficient in sulphur, you’re not detoxifying properly. You do get exposed to pesticides, go out to a restaurant with your family on a weekend and have a good dinner knowingly eating pesticide and that’s gonna kill off good bacteria in your gut. Those good bacteria are supposed to make your brain chemicals so now we go back all the way to anxiety again. So it is this kinda self-repeating cycle. So this why you can’t just focus on one aspect of your body. You can’t just put all your eggs on the gut basket, all your eggs on the adrenal basket. This is why Justin and I don’t really say, you know, you know, word expert at adrenals, word expert at gut, or word expert at this or that, because if you go in with the microscope and you’re just looking with this one problem, like you could see the thyroid, and see that there’s a problem with the thyroid, that could cause anxiety too, right? Like if you have Hashimoto’s you’ve got antibodies that attack the thyroid and you get a little bit of hormone into the bloodstream that could cause anxiety for sure.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: (Cross-talking.) Yeah.
Evan Brand: I mean we didn’t talk about that extensively. However, if we just focus on thyroid, okay we’ll gonna give you ___[20:24] or something else to calm the thyroid, did we fix the problem why the thyroid is auto immune in the first place. We fixed the immune system attacking the thyroid by looking at adrenals, and gut and chemicals, all that. Or we just give someone herb to calm the thyroid and that was all we did.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: (Cross-talking.) Right.
Evan Brand: Because if we did just that, then we fail.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Correct, and I’m seeing this more and more with various functional medicine doctors that are out there. What I’m seeing there are people, just the thyroid functional person, just the gut functional person. There’s nothing wrong with that marketing stampone, and like I’m gonna market to those people but I’m gonna look at everything once they’re in there, I get that. That’s kinda where my focus is. You wanna reach out the people so they ___[21:06] with you but you’re still looking at the whole thing. I’m seeing people, I’m seeing people only focusing on just the thyroid. Or only focused on just the gut. And then I’m looking at their labs, I’m seeing these people coming to me as patients and I’m like, oh its’-it’s really too bad because had an anemia and anemia was missed because this person was only focused on the thyroid or hey, this person had an adrenal issue or other issues going on and they were only focused on the gut, they didn’t fix those other things. Does that make sense?
Evan Brand: (Cross-talking.) It does.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So just be careful. A lot of people out there are focused on, you know they’re focused on, they’re reaching to functional medicine practitioners that are marketing one thing and another for their anxiety but they may be missing in the treatment a whole body system that’s so important. So, when people are out there looking for functional medicine doctors, you know, if you find someone that you like that’s great, just make sure when you interview them, when you talk to them make sure they’re gonna be looking at all the underlying systems, not just focused on one system like the gut or one system like just the adrenals. Make sure you’re looking at the whole thing.
Evan Brand: Yeah, I think over the next five to ten years this is gonna be a bigger problem just because of the Internet. The Internet allows us do what we do, and we are very grateful for the opportunity. But that also allows other people to go pick up some high profile credential and then market a specific flavour of functional medicine. Like, I’m gonna be the hormone girl, and I had a woman last week and she went to this hormone functional medicine specialist and the lady’s loosing hair, in clumps and clumps and clumps every time she takes a shower, and we look at her blood work, and she’s never been – she goes to this hormone lady, I don’t know how, a hormone functional medicine never tested her, never tested her blood, didn’t look at her ferritin, ferritin level was a six. The lady can hardly catch her breath, she’s got major anxiety, she’s losing tons of hair. Like, look at your ferritin, like, if you don’t fix that, you’re not gonna get your hair back no matter what this lady tells you about your bio identical hormone plant. So, it’s just that, it’s – I think it just comes with the territory of this because as you say people are trying to market, but you gotta make sure that they’re turning over all the rocks.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: (Cross-talking.) Yes.
Evan Brand: ‘Cause last thing you wanted to do is go spink like two to three thousand dollars and then now you gotta start all over because you didn’t address the other stuff.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You want the complete picture. Let’s connect this with some other things. Obviously we have female hormone issues like progesterone, low oestrogen or oestrogen dominance if you’re a cycling female. Obviously we have the menopausal kinda side where the hormones could just be low across the board, and we’re starting to have a lot of menopausal symptoms, from low progesterone, low oestrogen, because now our follicles, our ovarian follicles are used up. And then we have obviously on the cycling side, where we’re having a lot of PMS, a lot oestrogen dominance and we have lower progesterone, and that could be another component because progesterone is a GABA Chloride channel opener. So it opens those GABA Chloride channel in the brain, and allows us to relax. A lot of people could have a lower progesterone, oestrogen dominance, or just lower hormones across the board if you’re on the menopausal side. And the crazy thing is, we can also have similar symptoms if our thyroid is also low. This is why it’s so important to why you cannot just, just create a market and for one thing but it’s really important that you look at the whole component to make sure, other patients were hey, thyroid was the missing key to their anxiety, some it was low progesterone, some it was a combination of the two. And unless you’re treating and looking at it, and also treating it, then you know, you’ll know from you know, from experience what levers is moving what.
Evan Brand: Yeah, and I briefly hit on the Hashimoto’s, I think we should talk about it for a second because this is such a common issue. We’re seeing women with all sorts of different levels of thyroid antibodies. From the tens to the hundreds to the thousands. When the immune system is going after the thyroid, the first thought is, well, we’ve gotta calm down the immune system, we’d better try to stop this attack on the thyroid, but really, it’s fine at the first thought, but really what we’re seeing is we have to be addressing the other causes, if you give someone like a thyroid multivitamin, like it’s got your Selenium, and your Chronium, and and ___[25:18] and all those stuff. That’s good on a theory but you could stay on a thyroid multivitamin for five years and still never get to the root cause.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. All the thing that I would think is at the low hanging fruit perspective ___[25:30]. So of course gluten sensitivity can create GAD antiobodies and GAD is glutamate, uh, glutamate decarboxylase enzyme which is the enzyme that helps make, uh, uh, helps make GABA in the brain and GABA is that nice inhibitory relaxation chemical, so GABA’s important, gluten’s a strong component in that ___[25:50] response. But also gluten can drive, uhm, Hashimoto’s and that you will see increase in thyroid peroxidase and thyroglobulin antibodies. And these antibodies are gonna stimulate attack on the thyroid, attack the thyroid, and you may spill out hormone and as that hormone spills out to rev up the metabolism create swings of anxiety there as well.
Evan Brand: Have you ever experienced that, I mean you talked about your story with Hashimoto’s. have you ever had a day or a week or a time in your life where maybe a stress or, you know, uh, when you first had your son you’ve had like high in stress did you ever feel like “Oh my God” like “My Hashimoto’s is kicking in” did you feel that or-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I definitely had episodes where I felt like blood sugar fluctuations and that cortisol adrenaline blood sugar swing ___[26:39] issues in the past and I feel that potentially previous gluten exposures have potentially revved up the thyroid and had created some of those symptoms as well. Yeah I have in the past for sure. I tried to medicate that as soona s possible-
Evan Brand: Yeah, but it’s not fun the blood sugar piece you implied you hit them. Let’s, let’s – I know we hit that kind on Anxiety Part One, but with the blood sugar, you know in terms of testing, right? We talked about hormones; we talked about gut, organic acids, etcetera… Blood sugar testing, how simple and easy is that? If you’re feeling anxious, I mean I had a time where I had impending doom. I thought my god, the world’s gonna end, something bad is about to happen. I don’t know what it is, I checked my blood sugar, it was a fifty nine.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: (Cross talking.) Yeah, yeah.
Evan Brand: I mean, whoa.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I know, I know. That’s gonna be an issue because low blood sugar will drive a lot of cortisol adrenaline to pick it up. Now again if you’re fully ___[27:30] adapted that’s better because you have a lot more ketones there but I still think, uhm, even when you’re blood sugar’s that low could definitely create some issues for sure.
Evan Brand: Yeah, so if you have anxiety, I mean, don’t automatically think oh it’s Hashimoto’s, it may might not be. It could be something simple like low blood sugar or high blood pressure. You know when I was having some blood pressure swings, I noticed when the pressure was high, a side effect of that increased blood pressure, was anxiety. So do you take anti-anxiety herbs or do you think blood pressure herbs? For me, it was a combination of both. I took, like, inhibitory things to support GABA, you know ___[28:09] etcetera and I also did some hawthorn berry and some folate and some other things to help blood pressure. I kinda worked on both. That’s why really, people, you know, email us and say “Oh doctor J can you just give me a protocol for my Hashimoto’s?” It’s like, do you see how bad of a question that is? It’s like we have no idea what the heck is going on. Or can you just give me “Doctor J give me a parasite protocol” We have no idea what’s going on. Like, give me an anxiety protocol. You can’t do that because what’s the mechanism? What is the mechanism behind it? So, you know, in the long run you’re gonna spend so much more money knowing the whole foods or in Amazon buying this anxiety supplement bust, you know, stress busting supplement. Like, might help, probably won’t hurt, but, get the testing done. Get the data, get the rocks turned over. I can’t tell you how much time I wasted just taking this random herb for energy, random herb for sleep. And I had no idea what I was up against.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hundred percent. Well, excellent thoughts here today. I think we laid some, some good references for various mechanisms. How we can go down this path and of course how the gut is intimately connected. And I talked about the auto immune mechanism a minute ago, just kinda gonna dovetail on that because today’s podcast is on gut health and anxiety. A lot of that mechanism happens and works because of gut prebio ability. So with leaky gut and gut prebio ability have that mechanism where we have that undigested, whether it’s yeast or bacteria or foods include in our casein compounds get into that bloodstream through the gut lining right. We have our tight junctions, they open up especially with exposure to gluten and casein and potentially other endo toxins and fungus metabolites. They’re gonna open up these things get into our bloodstream and then our immune system is now exposed to it or these things now exposed to our immune system and can really heighten that auto immune system response now. And then that’s part of what’s going on here. So auto immunity is a big issue especially if someone’s anxiety is connected to a thyroid issue, there’s a good chance that thyroid issue is auto immunity nature, and then acts the part of it.
Evan Brand: Yeah. How simple of a thought. Like your, your dinner at the pasta restaurant could be driving your anxiety in your auto immune condition. Well it’s very well possible.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, excellent. Today’s a phenomenal podcast. To everyone listening if you wanna dive deeper with Evan head over evanbrand.com you can schedule a consult with Evan. If you wanna dive deeper with myself justinhealth.com click the arrow we can schedule a consult and dive in deeper. Yeah some of the labs we talked about today we’ll put links down beneath the podcast. You can access some of these labs, uhm, some of the gut tests are really important. Some of the adrenal tests, some of the neurotransmitter metabolite tests we’ll make sure we have links down below as well. Evan, any other questions, comments or concerns?
Evan Brand: I would just say don’t give up if you do need some type of anti-anxiety medication or something prescribed temporarily while you’re working on the root cause. I’m not judging you for that, neither is Doctor J. The point is we want you to get to the root of this and we see so many people that they wanna get off their pharmaceutical medications and they don’t know how. This is your road map to do so keep your head up, keep focusing on “What else have I not done yet? What other rock do I need to turn over My blood test, and my doctor said I’m fine.” Well there blood test probably sucked, get a better blood test, figure out what the heck is going on.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. You guys liked the show here put some comments down below. I love to hear what you think, like to get suggestions on future episodes. Give us a thumbs up or might share as well. Really appreciate it. Evan, today was great man, we’ll be in touch and we’ll talk this week. Take care everyone here. Bye bye.
Evan Brand: Bye bye.