Keto Tips and Common Misconceptions
By Dr. Justin Marchegiani
What if I told you that eating bacon, avocados, and butter could not only improve your health–it could also help you lose weight? By now you have probably heard of the keto diet, but what exactly is the keto diet and how does it improve your health? Let’s dive in!
What’s the Keto Diet?
The Keto Diet is a high fat and low carb way of eating which prompts your body to enter a state called ketosis. Ketosis is when your body burns primarily fat, rather than glucose, for energy.
The standard American diet is very heavy in carbohydrate-heavy foods. When you’re eating a high-carb diet your body mainly runs off of glucose (sugar) as fuel. However, if you cut the carbs and start eating more saturated fat, there’s no more glucose so your body starts burning fat (including stored body fat) for fuel instead! The weight loss effects of entering the metabolic state of ketosis is a huge reason why the keto diet is so popular for weight loss, but it also a great way of eating to lower inflammation, improve your insulin response and prevent/heal diabetes, and is protective against cancer, Alzheimers and other neurodegenerative diseases.
Glucose actually burns dirty, like a diesel fuel. It’s stinky. But ketones burn really clean–you don’t get a lot of reactive oxygen species or free radicals afterwards. Imagine fat is like a big branch and that you throw into the wood chipper, and then out of that wood chipper comes these things called ketones. These ketones can be used by different tissue in the body. In addition, burning ketones avoids the effects of glycation, which is basically all the proteins or tissue in your body gets sugar-coated and that creates basically a magnet for free radicals. Ketones are stable, whereas burning glucose is a constant up and down reaction.
How to Lose Weight on The Keto Diet
One of the biggest ways we can induce ketosis and burn body fat for fuel is by cutting carbs. Typically 20-30 grams per day is a great starting point for most people.
I recommend following a Paleo template for your keto diet, utilizing non-strachy vegetables for the bulk of your carbs. Around 20-30g per day is the sweet spot for most people. This is attainable if you keep your carbs to your paleo veggies: a cup of broccoli, a cup of spinach, a cup of kale, some asparagus, a salad… Once you factor out the fiber, you’ll probably be around 20-30 net carbs. As you continue with the keto diet you can play around with your carb range, some people feel better on 10-20 grams, others do well hitting around 40-50 grams of carbs per day.
How Do I Know if I’m In Ketosis?
Some people like to measure their ketones, either measuring their breath, urine, or blood. Not all of these methods are always effective–for example, if you’re burning ketones, they may not end up in the urine, giving you a false negative.
I use a ketone meter, either the Abbott Precision Xtra or Precision Xtra, to measure blood sugar in addition to ketones. The Ketonix breath meter is another good way to measure.
A Common Keto Mistake
One of the biggest keto mistakes is eating too much protein, as high as 30-40% protein. It’s hard to eat that much protein unless you do two things wrong. Number one, you eat lots of lean meat, and number two, you use excessive protein powders.
However, you can get away with going higher on protein if you’re doing a lot of resistance training. However, most of us are not elite athletes, so ideally your macros will be about 60-70% fat as a pretty good starting point.
Keto Misconceptions
Let’s clear something up. When people hear about ketones, they’ve likely been in the grocery store and they’ve seen the “raspberry ketones” as a weight loss supplement. This became very popular over the last few years. First off, raspberry ketones aren’t even derived from raspberries. Most of the time these products are filled with synthetic chemicals, artificial colors and artificial sweeteners. I do not recommend them, the ingredients will most likely do more harm than good.
For a good ketone product, try Keto OS or Keto Sport which use beta-hydroxybutyrate salts, which are the gold standard in keto products.
You can use ketone precursors like medium chain triglycerides C8 and C10. These MCT oils provide both the brain effects and metabolic effects of ketones. In the morning I do butter coffee with a high quality MCT oil. I’ll get my ketones up within an hour or 2 to—to .5, .6 mmol and I feel great.
Some people think the keto diet may be dangerous and destroy muscle. Sure, you can be in ketosis when you’re starving yourself. This doesn’t happen on the keto diet because we’re doing it nutritionally, meaning we’re actually eating foods. They’re real whole foods and we’re getting enough calories so you’re body’s not going to be eating away lean tissue.
Can I Cheat on the Keto Diet?
Cheating on the keto diet implies you’re eating enough carbs to bring you out of ketosis. Some people like to cycle in an out of ketosis in daily or weekly cycles. If you save all of your carbs for the evening and have some sweet potato or dark chocolate, the carbs can actually help you sleep! Some people can develop hypothyroid symptoms if they stay in ketosis long term. These people, primarily women, may benefit from cyclical ketosis like 5 days on, 3 days off.
Exogenous ketones can be great from a performance and neurological standpoint. They can be phenomenal if you are on the ketogenic diet–we call it therapeutic ketone therapy. However, if you’re still eating high carb and high sugar, don’t waste your time and money on expensive ketone supplements.
Who Should Try the Ketogenic Diet?
I recommend the keto diet for most people, especially those dealing with metabolic syndrome, which is when there’s a level of insulin resistance and you’re body is having a difficult time tapping into fat for fuel.
The Keto Diet is also great for cancer patients, Alzheimer’s patients, anyone with metabolic syndrome, women with a waist size 35 or larger, men with a waist size 40 or larger, blood pressure over 140, and anyone with inflammation or chronic pain.
Eating A Plant-Based Keto Diet
By Dr. Justin Marchegiani
Eating a ketogenic diet has reached mainstream popularity, often referred to as a diet full of meat and cheese. If you are interested in the fat-burning health effects of the keto diet, but turned off by the consumption of animal products, you may be curious if it’s possible to be both plant-based (vegan vegetarian, pescatarian) and stay in ketosis. Good news for all you meat-free folk: ketosis is most definitely achievable while sticking to plant-based foods!
Refresher: What’s the Keto Diet?
In a traditional Keto Diet, you eat high fat and low carb, and your body enters a state called ketosis. Ketosis is when your body begins burning primarily fat, rather than glucose, for energy.
The Standard American Diet is composed largely of carbohydrate-heavy foods. With a high-carb diet, your body runs off of glucose (sugar) as fuel. When you lower your carbohydrate intake and reach the metabolic state of ketosis, there is not much glucose available, so your body begins to use fat for fuel–including stored body fat. This is one reason why the keto diet is so popular for weight loss.
In addition to the weight loss benefits, the keto diet has shown amazing results for lowering inflammation, regulating insulin response, and protecting against cancer and neurological disease. It’s no wonder this diet has taken over the health world!
How to do the Keto Diet and Eat Plant-Based
Mainstream chatter about the keto diet leaves our plant-based friends in the dust; many vegans and vegetarians don’t realize that they too can partake in the keto-hype!
No matter your diet, it’s important to choose high-quality food sources. If you are eating a conventional keto diet, a fast food hamburger patty with cheese technically meets the “keto requirement” of high fat/low carb, but it is not going to provide much nutritional value (and if anything, will have negative effects on your health). Similar scenario with a plant-based diet: Eating chips and soy veggie dogs is within the bounds of a vegan diet, but is not going to do you many favors in the health department.
Applying this to a plant-based keto diet–let’s look at how we can reach ketosis with high quality sources of fat and protein.
Questions about plant-based keto? Click here to talk to the doctor!
Plant-Based Foods for Ketosis
For plant-based ketosis, here are some of the foods that should make up a large part of your diet!
Plant-based keto foods (vegan-friendly):
- Avocados: Avocados, and avocado oil, are a great source of healthy fats as well as a whole host of micronutrients.
- Coconut: Coconuts, coconut oil, and coconut yogurt are great sources of healthy fat. Add coconut oil to your coffee for a satiating keto coffee to help extend your morning fast.
- Olives: Olives are a delicious snack and make a great addition to many meals! Load your salad up with olives and drizzle with olive oil.
- Nuts and seeds: These are an excellent keto-friendly snack, and can also be added to many meals for an extra dose of fat and protein!
- If you are vegetarian (no meat, but other animal products are okay): Pastured eggs, goat cheese, goat yogurt, grass-fed butter and ghee are great sources of healthy keto-friendly fat and protein.
- If you are pescatarian (eat fish), wild-caught fish is an excellent source of healthy fats and protein.
Keto Foods to Avoid
Let’s have a look at a few common “bad” plant-based foods and why we want to avoid them.
- Highly processed seed oils: canola “rapeseed”, vegetable, and soybean oil are all highly inflammatory oils prone to oxidation.
- Soy: Soy is high in antinutrients, which inhibit nutrient absorption. This means that any meal containing soy is going to automatically have lower nutritional value. Soy is also high in lectins, which are linked to leaky gut, inflammation and autoimmune reactions.
- Seitan: Seitan is a soy-free meat replacement, however, it is made from wheat gluten which is inflammatory and can lead to leaky gut and other health issues over time.
Good sources of protein on a plant-based diet, keto or not, include nuts, seeds, spirulina, natto, and tempeh.
Takeaway
Plant-based ketogenesis is totally possible! Just like any other diet, be sure to choose your foods with care: organic nuts and product, high quality fats and oils, and if you are vegetarian or pescatarian, pastured eggs, grass-fed dairy, and wild-caught fish. Choosing organic whole foods provides you with the most nutrition, while avoiding pesticides and inflammatory compounds.
Curious if the keto diet is right for you? Click here to work with a functional medicine doctor!
References:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23801097/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19664276
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3826507/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1503071
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1868922
The Top 5 Keto Myths with Dr. Jockers | Podcast #184
Keto Edge Summit Sign up: https://justinhealth.com/ketoedge
Ketogenic Diet, also known as Keto Diet, is a popular diet among those who want to lose weight, but is it just about that? Listen to Dr. J and Dr. David Jockers as they talk about the top five myths about Ketogenic diet. Also, find out the physical and neurological benefits you can get from this known diet.
Stay tuned for more facts!
Dr. David Jockers
In this episode, we cover:
01:40 It’s a Weight Loss Diet
06:17 An All Meat Diet Only
16:17 A Diet Bad for Microbiome
24:22 Not Good for Thyroid and Adrenal Health
29:37 A Diet Suited Long-Term
63:00 Treatment Issues for the Immune System
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey, there! It’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani. I have an amazing guest on today’s show, Dr. David Jockers. David’s a phenomenal clinician, functional medicine doc, Chiro and good friend. David, welcome to the show, man. Really excited to have you on. I know you have your Keto Edge Summit going live really soon, and I want to make sure everyone knows about that. If you’re listening to this now, we’re gonna put a link below on screen. We’ll put like a little card as well link, where you can click in and you can get over and subscribe to that summit, where you can get access to ton of great speakers. I was able to speak on that summit, too, and drop some good information. So, David, welcome to the show! How are you doing?
Dr. David Jockers: Awesome, Dr. J. Great to be on with you. Always honored to be on your show. It’s one of the— one of my top subscriptions on iTunes. I listen to you guys, you and Evan, all the time. So, great to uh— Great to make a little cameo on here.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Thanks, doc. I appreciate it. And again, the— the Ketogenic Diet is one of the fastest trending types of diet. And, the reason why I like the Ketogenic diet, i— it— one of the big things, it shifts your metabolic machinery around, from being a sugar-burner to being a fat-burner. I love that because fat is like clean fuel. Sugar kind of burns like dirty diesel fuel. Fat…
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …burns clean, and has many metabolic neurological advantages. I know we talked pre-show we wanted to go over the top five benefits, or the top five myths of a Ketogenic Diet, and we wanted to spell them one by one. And I just want to let any listener know here, this is just the tip of the iceberg on my little iceberg picture back here.
Dr. David Jockers: [laughs]
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: This is the tip of the Ketogenic iceberg. So, anyone listening, if you resonate at all with this info, click down below and make sure you subscribe to Dr. Jockers’ Summit. Great info here. David, what’s your number one Ketogenic Diet myth?
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah. You know, I’ve been uh— teaching and writing about Ketogenic Diet for a long time and applying it myself. And these are the common myths that I come across. When people hear about Keto, and number one is really that it’s a weight loss diet. This is typically, how most people get started with the Ketogenic diet. It’s that they— they hear about it. They— Maybe, they saw a testimonial, or something along those lines. I hear about it being a great weight loss diet and it certainly is. In fact, I think it’s the best diet out there for— you know— for weight loss if you’re gonna— if that’s your goal. However, Dr. J, I have never tried to lose weight my entire life. I’ve always been underweight. And so, uh— you know— For me, I— I apply Ketogenic lifestyle and uhm— you know— not trying to lose weight. I’m actually just trying to maintain muscle mass. And the cool thing about it is, when your body— when you have Ketones elevating your bloodstream, it actually preserves your blood Leucine levels. And, Leucine has this anabolic effect where it helps your body preserve lean body tissues. So, we’re setting this message to the genome, saying, “Hey. Preserve lean body tissue and just burn fat for fuel. And even though I’m really, really thin. I’m typically like seven or eight percent body fat, uhm— I still have enough body fat to last me— I mean, I could go weeks without food, and I would still have enough body fat to actually preserve and— and uh— to produce Ketones and utilize energy. And so uhm— you know— It’s really not just for weight loss. Although it definitely is tool that can be used for weight loss. Really a great tool for enhanced brain function, performance, memory, reducing inflammation throughout the body. I mean, there’s so many different things, so many different benefits that we can get from a Ketogenic lifestyle and spending time, right? Having this metabolic flexibility where we spend time— not maybe all the time but spending time uh— throughout our life in Ketosis.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. Love it. So, the Ketogenic diet is not just a lifestyle, or I should say, not just a weight loss diet; lots of other neurological benefits. Awesome. Now, just kind of like looking at the weight loss, like weight loss can be a big one because INsulin resistance is a major cause of weight gain…
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …so a lot of people that are over secreting Insulin, that gets at the excess carbohydrate— you know— taps out the muscle, taps out the liver, and then it goes into the fat. So, you have it on one side where it can help improve fat, but it’s not just a fat loss weight loss diet. You n—
Dr. David Jockers: That’s right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …the benefits. So, [clears throat] what’s the..
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …first cognitive benefit, the thing that people aren’t aware off uh— with the Ketogenic diet?
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah. So, wit— with our brain— Basically, our brain could run off of somewhere between 50 to, some people say, up to two-thirds of— of energy production can be through Ketones. So, most people, and I know, and Dr. J, you and I learned when we were going through school that the brain depended upon glucose. But now, we realize that actually we can— we can create a lot of neurological energy through Ketones or breaking don Ketones. And so, when we start to transition our metabolism, and become Keto adapted, it significantly downregulates inflammation. So, it shuts down the Neuro Inflammasome, this genetic pathway that amfi— amplifies inflammation throughout the brain. So, when we do that, that reduces our risk, obviously, of neurodegenerative conditions, like Alzheimer’s, Dementia, Parkinson’s. But also, for— for younger people that— you know— that would be developing those diseases over a 30 to 40 or a 50-year period, you know, we’re not necessarily concerned. Like, I’m 36. I’m not thinking Alzheimer’s now, but I’m thinking about, “Hey. I want to get up and I want to be the best father/husband. I want to be the best doctor. I want to think sharply and quickly, uhm— and be able to perform at my peak.” And that’s really what, when I’m burning Ketones, when Ketones are my primary fuel, that’s how I feel. I feel awesome. I feel like I’m performing at my highest level. My energy levels are amazing. You know, it’s also great for skin. Reduces inflammation uh— throughout the whole body, so— so, reduces pain, reduces inflammation of the skin. But, just in general, you’ll notice just kind of this cle— this very clear feeling in your mind, where you’re able to come up with thoughts and ideas, and you’re able to be more creative, and you’ve got, basically, better cognitive processing speed. So, you’re able to think sharply and quickly. It’s a— It’s a preferred state for your brain to be at.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it, totally. I know Dr. Veatch over at Harvard has found that many people with— with neurological issues— There are certain parts of the brain that become resistant to using Glucose for fuel, but those parts of the brain can tap into Ketones for fuel. So, that’s like uh— a different fuel source…
Dr. David Jockers: Yep.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …which is great. And again, your brain only needs about 20 grams of Glucose a day. It’s not a lot. I mean, if you’re eating, you know, some Broccoli and some veggies and that kind of non-starchy veggie. You can get enough just from that.
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Now, that kind of leads us into the next myth here. Is the Ketogenic diet all meat? And again, I…
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …see…
Dr. David Jockers: [clears throat]
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …within my plate with how I eat.
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’m kind of a Paleo Cyclical Ketogenic person. But I eat a lot of times more vegetables than I see other Vegans eat. So, let’s hit that.
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And so, there’s a lot of different versions of the Ketogenic diet, and so a lot of people don’t realize this but, you know, there’s a lot of different Keto Influencers out there online, on YouTube and whatnot. And people have different uh— you know, different versions of it. And so, there are people that promote a very, very strong meat-based Ketogenic approach. However, the Ketogenic Diet does not need to be like that. In fact, it’s not really how I recommend it, and in functional medicine, we don’t recommend that. We recommend really a micronutrient-rich Ketogenic Diet and lifestyle, and uh— And, basically, that looks like a lot of vegetables, and so, you’ve got all this non-starchy vegetables, cruciferous vegetables, Broccoli, Cauliflower, Kale, Collard greens. These are all very, very low-carb, high fiber, high micronutrients. You got things like sea vegetables, Avocados, Olives, which are really good healthy full-fat foods that are also rich in micronutrients, rich in prebiotic fibers. And so, you’ve got a ton of vegetables. In fact, you know, when I’m working with Cancer patients, I actually have a whole program that’s built around a plant-based Ketogenic Diet. So, it’s a plant-based Ketogenic approach, where we have very little animal products in there. And so, why? Because, we’re trying to really control Protein intake. So, not to say the animal Protein is bad. I’m— I’m a fan of— I know Dr. J, you’re a fan of it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Dr. David Jockers: We consume meat. I pretty much consume a serving of meat everyday, pretty much, unless I’m fasting. Uhm— However, we just make sure that— you know— really want to focus on micronutrient so that’s not a meat only diet or a meat-based diet. Meat really is gonna be more like 20 to, maybe, 30% uhm— of your daily food intake when you’re on kind of a— a normalized Ketogenic diet. Uh— Obviously, if you’re really, really active, okay. If you’re doing a lot of resistance training, things like that, you might be able to handle a little bit higher levels of Protein, but uhm— typically, roughly around 30%. If you’re more sedentary, you’re looking at more like 15 to maybe up to 20% of your calories coming from Protein. And, you know, most meat is real dense in Proteins so when we do do meat, we— we like higher fat— higher fatty cuts, grass-fed uh— pasture-raised, right? Getting it all raised correctly. So, we have the right fatty acid ratios and uh— that the animals were raised and— and treated properly. But, the baseline there is, we’re looking at a micronutrient-rich diet, which includes healthy animal products because they are rich in micronutrients. It also includes a lot of vegetables and plant-based foods.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent. I think a lot of vegetarians are Vegans. They forget that a lot of the animal meat gets its nutrient density from concentrating plant matter.
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, that’s the benefit that you get when you eat animals if they’re pasture-raised and they’re raised properly, you get this concentration, this bioaccumulation of plant nutrition. And then I— I’ve read in places where one pound of grass-fed meat is six to eight pounds of a plant matter.
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So that’s one the great benefits that we have. And then also the benefit of eating good quality meats is we don’t have this high Carbohydrate to pres— Protein ratio. If you look at most vegetarian Proteins in nature— right— outside of uh— a Protein powder or outside of like a soy Protein that’s concentrated, it’s about two-thirds to three quarters starch to about one-third to one quarter Protein, and you get a lot of Carbs per Protein. So, like rice and beans, for instance, you get about 80 grams of Carbohydrates for about 20-25 grams of Protein. So, it’s gonna be really tough to be Vegetarian or Vegan and be plant-based at the same time. So, how are you doing? And, I imagine you’re using…
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …maybe some— some Pea Protein or some Concentrated Protein Powders and adding Coconut, MCT Oil, Fat, Avocado Oil. What does that look like?
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah. So, plant-based Ketogenic Diet, I use that with my Cancer patients because really— so, it— On a normal Ketogenic Diet, you’re looking at somewhere around 0.8 to 1.2 grams of Protein per kilogram of body weight. And, if you’re really active, you’re doing a lot of strength training trying to build lean body tissue might be able to go up to like 1.5 to 1.6 grams per kilogram. Whereas, when somebody has Cancer, uhm— we really want to reduce that. One big reason is because excess Protein is gonna stimulate the MTOR genetic pathway, which…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right
Dr. David Jockers: …emulates cell reproduction. So, we’re looking at like 0.5 grams per kilograms. So, for example, so I’m about 160 pounds, which is roughly 72-73 kilograms. So if I were to take half of that, half the kilograms, in Protein, it’s like 36 grams of Protein a day. And so, if I were to break that into, let’s say, two feeding periods. It’s roughly 15 to 20 grams of Protein per feeding period. Okay. And so, we could do that, obviously, with uhm— obviously with things like seeds, Hemp seeds, stuff like that. We could also do it with Protein powders. Right? And, on the plant-based Ketogenic Diet, I actually do recommend like Collagen Protein.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.
Dr. David Jockers: So, it’s not a Vegan Diet. We actually recommend Glycine-rich uh— you know— basically, Amino acids, like uh— like a Collagen Protein or Bone Broth Protein, or something along those lines uh— can be really, really healthy. And, I actually don’t ris— I don’t say, “Hey. You can’t eat meat on this plan. It’s more so just watching how much, because in one ounce of chicken, you have something like seven or eight grams of Protein. So, if you’re trying to hold yourself to 20 grams of Protein in a meal. That’s like two and a half ounces. Most people are used to eating four to six, sometimes eight ounces of— of meat in one meal. Okay. And so, it’s very easy to get that Protein up 50-60 grams, which is gonna stimulate that MTOR pathway. And, again, individuals of Cancer— [stutters] We’re not able to test for this yet, but we hypothesized that uh— I mean, I— I just pretty much lump everybody with Cancer, with the fast growing cancer, into this— this model of— Hey— fat— a hyperactive MTOR Genetic pathway. And uhm— And so, we want to reduce that Protein as well as the Carbohydrate and make it up with a lot of healthy fats, Avocados, Olives, Olive Oil, Coconuts. Uhm— We do recommend grass-fed butter on there because of the Conjugated Linoleic Acid, the fat-soluble nutrients, Vitamin A, Vitamin E. Uh— You got Choline in there, all kinds of powerful nutrients for the body. So, it’s not a Vegan approach. It’s a— But it is more plant-based, because we’re not doing high amounts of— of meat in that.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s great. Excellent. Yeah. Good rule of thumb that I use with my patients is, depending on where you’re at, typically two to three times more fat than Protein. So, I’m—
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’m 210 pounds, right? So, I may consume on the Protein side if I’m lifting weights, maybe, you know, half— half uhm— to three quarters of a gram per pound of body weight. So, that may look like, for me, a hundred and twenty, 120 or so, uhm— grams of Protein, maybe up to 150. And then, I would then double that to triple that for my fat…
Dr. David Jockers: Uhmhm—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …so, three— 250 to 300…
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …grams. And like, I start my day with just pure fat and some…
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …Collagen peptides with my coffee. [crosstalk] So, I try to really jumpstart my day.
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh— What’s your take on that kind of ratio? Does that kind of match your— your Math a little bit there too?
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think that works great because you got to remember you got nine grams of calories per gram of— I’m sorry you got nine grams of calories per— nine calories per gram of fat.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes, that’s correct.
Dr. David Jockers: So, basically, yeah. So, you kno— you want to get roughly 60 to 80 percent of your calories from these fat sources to be in…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.
Dr. David Jockers: …Ketosis. The mo— Again, the more active you are, the more your bodies gonna be able to handle a little bit higher amount of…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.
Dr. David Jockers: …Carbohydrate and Protein. So, like, for me, I can handle a little bit more Protein, particularly on training days so I’m roughly in that 80 to 100 gram range, right, on— on training days…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Correct.
Dr. David Jockers: …but, obvio— I fast one day a week, right? And so, of course, you know, when I’m fasting, that’s my Protein Restriction Day. And I think this is really good rule of thumb, unless somebody’s dealing with, you know, s— yeah, severe health issues, and they— they really struggle with fasting, where you’re actually able to create some variation in your diet. You might have a Feasting Day, where uh— you may over consume a little bit of Protein and Carbs, and that’s— That can be kind of good for— for stimulating the Thyroid, [stutter] obviously we’ll get into that myth.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.
Dr. David Jockers: And then also doing a little bit of like a Protein Restriction Day, where you d— where you dial it down lower. You’re body’s able to stimulate more autophagy in that case, and uhm— really be able to do more healing and repair. Even though we use Protein for healing and repair, actually, restricting the Protein stimulates more healing and repair when you do it for short periods of time.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s great. And I— I do notice that in the earlier studies, they know the first Ketogenic Diet, where they started coming up within the 1920’s for epilepsy. Mayo Clinic was behind a lot of this, and they…
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …were finding it was really a great first-line therapy for epilepsy having seizures.
Dr. David Jockers: Oh, yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And— And they dropped the Protein down below, I think, eight percent.
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And one are the side effects of going too low was they did— the kids in these studies also had very low IGF-1, which is a growth hormone precursor.
Dr. David Jockers: Yep.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: They— They actually had stunted height. So, one of the things that you can do is up that Protein to 15, even up to 25%. They found that they still…
Dr. David Jockers: Yep.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …had the same benefits but didn’t have the low IGF-1 and the low height stuff. But, again…
Dr. David Jockers: Yup.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …if was— It was a Cancer issue, due reason that IGF-1 can also help decrease that Cancer cell growth, too.
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah. Exactly I mean, the faster the growth— the faster the Cancer growth, like the Metastatic Cancer, something that’s growing faster, you definitely want Protein Restriction. You want to do more fasting. You want to slow cell reproduction. That’s your whole goal there. Uhm— Whereas, you know, somebody like you or I, and probably most of the listeners on here, can certainly handle higher amounts of Protein…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.
Dr. David Jockers: …roughly around 20% of their— their calorie intake.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent. Very good. Uhm— Myth number three. Is a Ketogenic Diet bad for the microbiome?
Dr. David Jockers: You know, there’s a lot of health influencers out there that say that. They say, you know, if you’re applying this Ketogenic approach, it’s gonna be really bad for the microbiome because we don’t have enough prebiotic fibers in there. But, if you’re doing it correctly, the way that I teach you, the way that you teach, Dr. J, you’re actually getting tons of prebiotic fibers. I mean, in one Avocado…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.
Dr. David Jockers: …you’ve got as much…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Dr. David Jockers: …fiber aas you have in oatmeal, right? And, people are eating oatmeal for breakfast, which is spiking their blood sugar, driving up Insulin levels…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.
Dr. David Jockers: …causing inflammation in their body, and they’re thinking, “Well, I’m getting the fiber, right,” which is kind of like— you know— the main reason why people eat oatmeal. Uh—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.
Dr. David Jockers: …from a nutrition perspective, because this is really not much nutrients in it to begin with. Whereas Avocados got twice— twice as much. It got as much as two cups, or two— two bowls of oatmeal. So, getting Avocados into your diet, you’re gonna get tons of prebiotic fibers. Olives are another really good source. Dark green leafy vegetables, you’ve got things like uh— radishes, you’ve got uhm— Artichoke is really good one. You’ve got all your cruciferous vegetables, Cauliflower, Broccoli— things like that. So, really, really good for the microbiome and there’s actually been studies where uhm— for example, uh— “Frontiers in Microbiology in 2017,” they took a group of individuals with Multiple Sclerosis, and they compared them to healthy adults. And they found that the individuals with Multiple Sclerosis, as we would expect in functional medicine, had a disordered microbiome. They had Dysbiosis. Thay had a whole lot of pathogenic uh— bacteria in their system. And so, when they put them on a Ketogenic Diet and they were checking them, measuring— they’re looking at their Stool Analysis over a period of time. They found that after six months it was completely normalized, right? That they actually had the ten individuals they had with MS, had very similar uh— gut bacteria make up as healthy adults who weren’t expressing an autoimmune disease in…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s right.
Dr. David Jockers: … tat Keto approach, right? And, they— they’ve actually been looking at this with Epilepsy too, ‘cause really, ultimately, we know that Ketogenic Diet’s been well studied in Epileptic kids to reduce this Neuro inflammasome and a pr— to create better balance between the Excitatory Neurotransmitter Glutamate and GABA. And these kids with epilepsy, they end up with Neural Excitation because they have poor conversion of Glutamate to GABA, as one of the reasons. And uh— So, Glutamate will excite the brain cells, right? GABA helps slow them down and balance them. And so, we want good balance there so we’re able to think sharply and quickly. Okay. But also, we’re able to calm our self. We’re not— We don’t have anxiety. We don’t have seizures, right? Things like that. And so, uhm— these individuals with epilepsy, we know that that’s the case, but they hadn’t looked at their gut. And so, just recently, we started doing studies, looking in detail at epileptic kids’ guts. And they found that— you know, they’re really high, and things like Proteobacteria, uh— like Vibrio, and Salmonella, and stuff like that. And following a Ketogenic approach that they’re able to normalize that good bacteria as well, and see significant changes there. So, really cool stuff as far as what happens when you have a Dysbiosis and you start following a Ketogenic approach, it should improve. Right? Should— You should get improvements over time.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, a lot of Dysbiotic bacteria is gonna happen from refined sugar consumption.
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh— Inflammatory uhm— foods, like— like Gluten and Grains and— and bad trans fats. And of course, antibiotic use, which c— creates that rebound Yeast overgrowth. So, yeah, starting out some of those critters can help as well. And I even find a lot of patients uh— have other infections too, and they may have to have those infections kind of knocked out, whether it’s an…
Dr. David Jockers: Yes.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …H. pylori or— or another type of parasite. But, you made some good points. I mean, let’s say you’re keeping your— you know, Carbohydrates down to 30 net grams a day. Well, if you look at— Like, let’s say a serving of Broccoli, once you subtract the fiber. It’s down to three to four grams of Carbohydrates. I mean, you ju— you can do six to eight servings of non-starchy vegetable.
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s a lot of fiber going into…
Dr. David Jockers: Oh, yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …the gut.
Dr. David Jockers: Oh, yeah. Absolutely. I mean, you’re gonna get a lot of prebiotic fiber, and, you know, touching base on— on using antimicrobials. I mean, really, ultimately, like in Cancer, one of the growing theories with how t— how, with in a sense, uh— uh— I shouldn’t say the word curing but…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.
Dr. David Jockers: … helping our body overcome cancer is this Press-Pulse Theory, that uh— Dr. Thomas Seyfried, who I interviewed in the Keto Edge Summit— He has really pioneered this idea, as well as Dr. Dominic D’Agostino, down at University…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm—
Dr. David Jockers: …of South Florida doing a lot of research. And I also interviewed him. He talks a lot about this Press-Pulse Theory of Cancer, where, basically, we’re gonna press it metabolically. Right? So, meaning that we’re gonna restrict the Glucose consumption. We’re gonna restrict the— the main metabolic fuel to Cancer cells. And then, we can pulse it with an oxidative therapy. And that oxidative therapy could be in the conventional model, Chemotherapy Radiation, and more of a— a natural holistic model could be things like Hyperbaric Oxygen, IV Vitamin C, IV Ozone— stuff like that. So, I look at, when I’m thinking about like gut infections, I’m thinking something similar. I’m like, “Hey. If we can press these, you know— These uh— parasites, Candida — things like that— If we can press them metabolically by taking away what their preferred fuel sources are, and then we pulse them with really strong herbs, antimicrobials, Oregano, Garlic, Berberine, right— different compounds like that— Wormwood.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly.
Dr. David Jockers: Right? Now, they’re weakened because they’re pressed. They’re— They’re metabolically stressed, and that we’re able to get in there with food. You know, they’re consuming these uh— these herbs and uh— obviously, they’re not able to really— They’re weak already so, they’re susceptible. So, they’re gonna go down in— in flames.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and a lot of these chemicals, a lot of these uh— infections, they actually create a lot of cravings for a lot of the….
Dr. David Jockers: Yes.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …refined sugar. Again, it’s easy to process so…
Dr. David Jockers: Yup.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …so, from a compliance standpoint, if we can knock a lot of these microbes down, it’s gonna improve your compliance being on that diet because often all these chemicals won’t be secreted. That’ll created those cravings too, right?
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yes. [crosstalk] And you’ll notice.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And then, also—
Dr. David Jockers: What’s the cool thing about a Keto approach too is, you know, after like the first two weeks, the first week or two, as you’re adapting into it, those— The hunger, the cravings really go down significantly. And, if you are noticing really strong cravings, oftentimes it’s a lot to do with what’s going on in your microbiome. So, yeah. I’m a huge fan of using like binders in those cases, right? Just try to kind of clear and sweep some of that stuff out. So, whether it’s Activated Charcoal, or Bentonite Clay, or like Humic Fulvic acids— things like that— to try to sweep stuff out of there faster. It can really help people that are— are struggling with the cravings.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. And if anyone’s listening to this right now and is really enjoying it, make sure you click the link below so you can get access to the Keto Edge Summit. This is gonna be just a sneak preview of all the great knowledge bombs that we dropped. Again, we’ll have the links below. Again, justinhealth.com/ketoedge— justinhealth.com/ketoedge to get access to this phenomenal summit. And then, Dr. David, what’s your experience with adding maybe a little bit of prebiotic fibers in? Maybe some uh— unripened banana flower, some Inulin or Chicory root, supplementally, is kind of uh— a prebiotic or some Fructooligosaccharides. Any experience there?
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah. I think— I think for most people, unless they’ve got SIBO or some sort of a FODMAP issue…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Dr. David Jockers: They’re gonna respond well to small amounts of that.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm—
Dr. David Jockers: Uhm— Some people, there’s a— you know— has a bell curve. There’s some people that respond really well to a higher doses of these sort of uhm— resistance starches…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm—
Dr. David Jockers: …whereas other people don’t, right?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.
Dr. David Jockers: They get more of those. They start gaining more weight. They feel more sluggish, more gas bloating, right? Issues like that. So, I think it’s a— you know, it’s a case by case basis but…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.
Dr. David Jockers: I think as long as like— Hey! If you can eat— For example, if you can eat a bowl of Steamed Broccoli and not feel gassy and bloated and be cramping after that, okay, then you probably could do well on resistant starch.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. [crosstalk] And I think it’d be good if you can have some Sauerkraut and maybe some…
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …low…
Dr. David Jockers: Exactly.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …Kombucha. You can handle that, you probably would do okay with that.
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah, exactly. That’s kind of a good uh— good task, right—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm—
Dr. David Jockers: …to— to Litmusi— Litmus Test to uh— see if you’re ready for some sort of resistant starch.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think that’s great. On to Myth Number Four.
Dr. David Jockers: Uhmhm—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Is the Ketogenic Diet bad for Thyroid and Adrenal health? Now, I’ll just chimed…
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …in here. I’m coming out with my Thyroid Reset Summit, which will be this Fall, which you’ll be…
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …a part of and I want you to speak…
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …more in-depth on this, but just to put a couple things out there…
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah, absolutely.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …a lot of people have Insulin Resistance.
Dr. David Jockers: Mm—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And, Insulin Resistance is your body over-secreting Insulin to help get that Glucose into the cell. High amounts of Insulin can have major effects on Thyroid Hormone Activation or Conversion, T4 Inactive Thyroid Hormone to T3. Now, that being said, I think a majority of population fits into that, where if that Insulin Resistance is there, a Ketogenic Diet may be really helpful. I’ll— I’m— I’ll kind of give you the baton here.
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah. Yeah, totally. You know, I would say any sort of major dietary change is a mild stressor on the body, and so, if somebody’s stress-resistant or uhm— you know— ability to adapt to stress is really, really low— okay— then, they need to gently and gradually shift as they start making these nutrition changes. They need to kind of a slower change as opposed to— it’s kind of similar to— you know— if you— you’re sedentary, you haven’t exercised, and then you think, “Okay. I’m gonna go out and run a 5K.” You do that, you’re gonna be really, really sore and beat up. You’re gonna think exercise is the worst thing possible, or if you gradually move into a more active lifestyle, you’ll notice less pain, less soreness and you’ll just become a natural part of your lifestyle. So, really, you got to look at your ability to adapt to stress first. Right? I’m sure many listeners and, you know, many of the clients that come to us, Dr. J, you know, their ability to adapt to stress, number one, is— is not very good. So, we wouldn’t necessarily put somebody on a Ketogenic Diet that had very low stress uh— adaptation. So, that’s the first thing that I would say. Second thing is this, is that, really, inflammation— Okay. There’s no better diet and nutrition plan to reduce inflammation fast than a Ketogenic approach or even— or a fasting. Okay. That’s gonna reduce inflammation faster than anything in your body, but again, can be stressful for the system, right— to just all of the sudden go into something along those lines. But, by reducing inflammation— okay, that’s gonna help improve not only most— most people with Thyroid issues are dealing with autoimmune issues. And so, it’s gonna reduce the autoimmunity on the Thyroid. It’s gonna reduce uh— you know, Thyroid nodule production — things like that. It’s also gonna help improve liver function, as well as gut function. And, liver and the gut are responsible for the main aspect of converting Inactive T4 and Active T3. And also, if the cells are real inflamed, we’re not gonna get good expression of the T3 at the— at— in the— in the cell and in the— in the Mitochondria to begin with. So, reducing inflammation is the most important thing to helping improve Thyroid Hormone Expression and to reduce stress on the body. Okay? So, from the theoretical perspective, a Ketogenic Diet and fasting can be amazing for Thyroid and Adrenals. Now, the other element that we’ve got to look out is this element of feasts and famines. So, when we’re fasting, or if we’re doing a Ketogenic approach and we’re keeping our Insulin real low. Our body, it’s kind of a signal to our body and our genome that we’re in a time of famine. Okay? Because, typically, when our ancestors came across a lot of food, they would eat a lot of it, so they would feast and Insulin will go up. So, it would have kind of an Insulin spike— not quite the Insulin spike we get today when we eat a whole bag of Frito-Lays. But, nevertheless, they would get a rise in Insulin. And so, that told the body, “Okay. We’re in a period of feasting right now. And then, we never— you know— That— That might last for a day or two, and then, we might have in a whole week, where we barely got any food. And so, this kind of Feast and Famine cycling is— is what our genome is— is accustomed to. And, it’s— it’s actually healthy for priming it. And so, basically, when we’re in a time of famine for a long period of time, like following a Ketogenic lifestyle and being in Ketosis for a month, two months— you know, three months or longer, uh— o— just altogether, without cycling out of that, it can send a signal. For some individuals, they— they feel really good. Thyroid expression is great. For other individuals, their T3 might start to lower, like the Thyroid Hormone may start to lower. They may get lower amounts of Thyroid activity at the cell, and then genome, because the body’s saying, “Okay. We’re in a period of famine. We want to slow down metabolic rate. We want to slow down at the amount of energy and the amount of uhm— ts— the amount of energy that were basically breaking down. So, that may be signal. So, for many individuals that have kind of a— a Thyroid issue or possibly an adrenal issue coming in. Cycling Carbs and finding a good strategy for that…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.
Dr. David Jockers: …where you have kind of this Ketogenic lifestyle as your foundation. But then, finding strategic times to cycle in a little bit of Carbs or Protein to get a little bit higher Insulin can set— tell the— the— our genetics, “Hey! We’re in a time of feasting now. We can reactivate Thyroid Hormone get that out and uh— bump that up for— for a period of time,” and finding kind of the right cycle for you.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally makes sense. Now, last question here. Is a Ketogenic Diet practical long-term? Can you follow it long-term?
Dr. David Jockers: That’s a great question. So, a lot of people think, “Well, wow! That’s such a— a major dietary uh— change, and it’s such a restriction from what we grew up with, which was grains in every meal, uhm— and high-carb foods.” But actually, what you find is that after about— after the adaptation process, which is roughly a week to two weeks, depending on the individual, uhm— you actually notice that your cravings go down significantly.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm—
Dr. David Jockers: If— Sometimes, for many people, they’re non-existent. You barely ever feel hungry. I have a lot of people writing me that are like, “You know what, I can eat more than one meal a day.” And so, for a lot of people, just the idea of even eating uh— That— That idea reduces. And so, they’re able to open up so much more time for everything else in their life. They’re still able to enjoy really good foods— kind of foods that Dr. J and I been talking about, but at the same time, they’re not driven by the need to eat every three to four to five hours. Right? Just constantly having to eat, constantly having to plan out meals. I know for myself, I eat one to two meals a day, uh— for the most part. I— I can’t remember the last time I ate breakfast. So, I’m eating once or twice a day. I’m not driven by food. I eat with my family, enjoy— you know— good time there. I might eat out. I might have a Protein shake after my workout. That’s about it. So, the— the actual time it takes for food preparation, for cleanup— things like that, is significantly reduced. I’m able to really stay focused, and uhm— you know, do the things I was put on the planet to do, rather than being driven by food. And so, that’s what most people experience as they get going with this. Actually, it’s a lot easier to follow a lot more sustainable than they’re actually originally thought.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it. Yeah. Basically, you— you’re switching the metabolic machinery instead of starting that campfire and running on kindling in paper and gasoline. We’re putting good healthy logs in the fire that allow that fire to— to burn longer and stronger.
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah. Absolutely. [crosstalk] I mean, that’s really what it’s about. Yep.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And then also, just to piggyback what you said before.
Dr. David Jockers: yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I know when the Atkins Diet kind of got popularized in the 50’s and 70’s…
Dr. David Jockers: Uhmhm—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …but with Dr. Atkins. You know, there’s a lot of thought that all the benefit just came from cutting the Carbohydrate, which does help with a lot of the Insulin Sensitivity. But I think a lot of people in the Ketogenic Community, what they did was cutting out grains and cutting out some of these inflammatory foods made a huge difference. And now, we kind of have this like, Paleo Ketogenic Template, where we understand that— the nature of inflammatory foods. We understand maybe artificial sweeteners aren’t as good because— because the Carbohydrates aren’t there— they still may not be as good, or the refined vegetable oils, or the Soy Proteins and the Xenoestrogen. So, I think, we’ve taken the ketogenic diet and brought it to the next level looking at the micronutrients. Looking at the macronutrient quality…
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …and then, also looking at the inflammatory nature of the food and not just lumping at all into this Carbohydrate Template.
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, really, ultimately, we want an anti-inflammatory diet. I just want to also uh— remind everybody too that, basically, when you’re on a Ketogenic lifestyle, your Insulin is gonna go down significantly. And the benefit of that is significant reduction inflammation and cell reproduction. Uhm— So, that’s amazing. However, the other thing is Insulin retains minerals. Okay? So, when Insulin goes down, we lose more hydration and more minerals. In fact, when you lose weight early on a Ketogenic Diet, typically, it’s water weight in— in the first, you know, week or so because your body’s just getting rid of this fluid and hy— and minerals. And one of the biggest mistakes I see people make is they’re not replacing the minerals and the hydration. So, if you’re gonna try this approach, I would highly recommend making sure you’re hydrating well, uhm— consuming a lot of trace mineral rich foods, a lot of the foods that we already talked about, fermented foods, Olives, Avocados, sea vegetable, uhm— wild-caught fish, wi— pasture-raised animal products, very rich in trace minerals. Use a good high-quality sea salts or like a Pink Himalayan Salts on your foods, and salt it well. And stay hydrated throughout the day. Really, really, hydrate your body well, because you need that extra water. And that’s really— you know one of the key ways to get healthy anyways. You just got to— got to pee your way to good health, right? So, consume a lot of that water and just flush— flush out toxins, and you’ll feel a lot better when you do that.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. make sure you’re adding up pinch of good quality sea salts…
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …to your water.
Dr. David Jockers: Uhmhm—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Five to seven servings of green veggies and one full…
Dr. David Jockers: Yep.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …Avocado a day should get you…
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …that 4,700 milligrams of Potassium you need. Also, the Bone Broth, uhm— sip in that as well.
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It can give you the extra Sodium and the electrolytes…
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …’cause that’s one of the big things. If you’re having cramping or these issues, make sure you’re Potassium’s up…
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …forty-seven hundred milligrams or higher. Magnesium, gram or 1,000 milligrams a day or higher. And then, make sure the water you’re drinking is also clean filter water, but also mineral-rich…
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …or make sure…
Dr. David Jockers: Yup.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …you add a pinch of sea salt.
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Would you agree?
Dr. David Jockers: Oh, absolutely. And that’s huge, especially if you’re following this Ketogenic approach, and you’re noticing Fatigue. If you’re dealing with Fatigue, then I would highly consider maki— looking at your hydration. Also, if you’re dealing with lot of hunger and cravings as you’re going through it, really consider your hydration. Start really focusing on hydration. I’ve found, that about 75% of the people that I’ve worked with that noticed a lot of Fatigue uhm— and cravings as they’re following this Ketogenic approach, once we address the hydration and the minerals, they feel a lot better.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Huge. [crosstalk] That’s cool.
Dr. David Jockers: For some of those individuals, they may need like a little bit of Thyroid hormone— you know— or something along those lines.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.
Dr. David Jockers: But, for many of them, it’s just a hydration and mineral issue.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. Last two things I’m gonna put out there. We hit our top five myths. So, this is bonus round. So, anyone that’s sticking…
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …around here, you’re getting some extra gems. Number one, uhm— Ketoacidosis first ketosis. Mm— My take is, number one, Ketosis is, we’re talking nutritional Ketosis. We’re not talking nutr— Ketosis via starvation.
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We’re talking Ketosis via adequate nutrition with keeping Carbohydrates down. That is a good thing. Ketone levels, maybe one to two milliMoles Ketoacidosis, ten and up on the milliMoles of Ketones. And number two, primarily happening in Type-I Diabetic patients without adequate levels of Insulin. Insulin drops.
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: ‘Kay? Fuel can’t get into the cell. The body freaks out and overproduces Ketones to— to help compensate for the fuel source. What happens? That high level of Ketones is acidic, drops the pH, and that can put you into— into a coma via very low uhm— very low pH. Uh— Go ahead, I’ll let you give yours—
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …your take on it.
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah. Basically, Ketoacidosis is only gonna happen in a Type-I Diabetic or a Type-II. It’s completely lost the ability to [crosstalk] produce Insulin.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Dr. David Jockers: And, they, more or less, need to be neglecting their health. They need to be non-cognizant that they need to actually uh— take supplemental Insulin, taking in Insulin injection. And so, that’s really the only way, and it’s characterized by really super high blood sugar, like blood sugar 300 and above sometimes. Okay. And, really, really high Ketones, like you said, ten. Really, it’s more like 15-20 or above…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.
Dr. David Jockers: …uhm— with the— with the— the Ketones. Whereas, with nutritional Ketosis, you’re blood sugar’s gonna be under 100. Sometimes, it’s gonna be like 60 or 70.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Dr. David Jockers: Some people are even saying, s— you know, “At times, our blood sugar is in the 40’s and 50’s.” So, s— So, very very low blood sugar because your body’s very Insulin-sensitive. And then, your Ketones, rather than being in this 20 to 25 range, they’re gonna be roughly somewhere between 0.5 and maybe 3.0…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly.
Dr. David Jockers: … uh— depending on— unless, you’re fasting. ‘Kay. You’re only…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm—
Dr. David Jockers: …really, really gonna get up above 3.0 is kind of an extended fast.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think it’s really important because the conventional medical doctors out there, they have virtually zero training— and even RD’s—
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …zero training in— in nutrition from optimal health. They’re very skilled…
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …in nutrition for pathology. Like, you talk about Vitamin C— you know— we’re gonna talk about Vitamin C benefits, they’re gonna talk about Vitamin C in Scurvy. They’re gonna talk about, you know, Beriberi and B1 Deficiency. They’ll talk about if you go into Ketosis— benefits of Ketosis, they’re gonna basically, conflate that with Ketoacidosis. So, just be careful. You’re seeing your conventional medical doctor and you’re engaging in the benefits of a Ketogenic diet and Ketosis. They’re gonna probably conflate that, and that’s kind…
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …of a Litmus Test to see if your doctor knows what they’re talking about.
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah, exactly. And I think just in general, doctors, as a whole, we’re kind of— we’re— we have this know it all mask because we’re high— high achievers.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm—
Dr. David Jockers: We’re high performers…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhm—
Dr. David Jockers: …so we just figured, if we didn’t learn about it in medical school, or if it hasn’t been like put…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Bingo.
Dr. David Jockers: …right in the face that it must not be good, or it must be some sort of a fad. And so, rather than just being humble, it takes a really humble individual to say, “You know what, that’s an intere— that’s interesting. I haven’t looked into it yet. Uhm— So, I really don’t know.” [laughs] And so, for a doctor to say, “I don’t know,” very rarely ever happens. So, they’re gonna, typically have a strong opinion because they’re trying to provide their patients certainty. However, their opinion may not be based on any sort of uh— real true knowledge. And if they were really looking through the scientific literature, and studying that on Ketosis, they’d actually be excited about utilizing those with their patients.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. And then, last thing I want to put out there. Want to get your take on it, too. As I see, a lot of patients, they switch from the Ketogenic Diet, or they switch from a Standard American Diet to a Lower Carb kind of Ketogenic Paleo Template. One of the biggest thing I see is, they tend to be eating a lot of Carbohydrate, which tends to be easier to digest and process. Now, they’re eating a lot more fat, a little bit more Protein, and they start feeling worse from the bloating or digestive standpoint.
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: One of the things I find is that more Protein and more fat can be a little bit tough on the digestive system.
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And, a lot of people, they— the— a Ketogenic Template can reveal the weak link in their digestive secretions regarding low stomach acid, low enzymes and some people need to up the bile salts, up the…
Dr. David Jockers: Yes.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …HCl, up the enzyme. And, if you move from the Ketogenic template, and you start noticing those symptoms, it doesn’t mean the diet is not good for you, or bad.
Dr. David Jockers: Right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s revealing a weak link in your digestive system. Go ahead, Dr. David.
Dr. David Jockers: I mean, it’s absolutely the truth, and to most people, because of stress. Stress is the antagonist to digestive juice production. And so, for…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.
Dr. David Jockers: …our body to be able to break down food, particularly meat— you know, you take a look at meat, unless it’s like a really, really well-cooked like Chicken Soup or something like that…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm—
Dr. David Jockers: …you just take a Steak. That’s Steak— you’re gonna need a lot of stomach acid, digestive enzymes, bile, in order to really break that down and metabolize it well. And so, as we start to age and stress, in general, is gonna reduce our ability to produce the stomach acid we need, the bile, the pancreatic enzymes. And so, yeah. Absolutely. Supplementing with that, can be extremely helpful. I’ve seen that just be a lifesaver for so many different individuals. And doing different strategies like drinking Ginger tea throughout the day can be really helpful.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm—
Dr. David Jockers: Uuhm— What else? Doing like Lemon, putting fresh squeezed Lemon or Lemon Juice, or Apple Cider Vinegar on the meat, like before you actually eat it, starts…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep.
Dr. David Jockers: …pre-metabolizing it. Same— You can do it on the vegetables, too. Actually, it starts pre-metabolizing, breaking down the meat and the vegetables before it even gets into your body. So, it makes it easier in your digestive system. And really, ultimately, it’s all about— You know, we want to take stress off the digestive lining, ‘cause there’s only one cell wall — our— our intestinal lining. So, if we’re constantly putting food that’s not well digested up higher in the end, like in our stomach for example, into that intestinal lining, it’s like we’re just scarring it right up. We’re tearing that intestinal lining up. We’re gonna create leaky gut. We’re gonna get…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Bingo.
Dr. David Jockers: …more inflammation and have a lot more problems. So, yeah. Taking really, really good care of your digestive lining is— is very important. I know, you teach that. I teach that.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm—
Dr. David Jockers: I’ve got lot of articles in my website all about that. And we— we do touch on that as well in the Keto Edge Summit. We really uh— We really focused in on helping people improve their digestion so they can follow this Ketogenic lifestyle and uh— and do it effectively.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Awesome. Love it. So, everyone listening, lots of knowledge bombs. Again, when you talk with two doctors like— like us, we’re providing clinical information, not theoretical stuff— actual information you can use to help improve your health and your life. And if you’re listening so far and you like this. This is the tip of the iceberg, right? Iceberg in the back.
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: justinhealth.com/ketoedge. Again, we’ll put the link down below. If so you’re driving, you can’t get it you can click down below And again, support the summit. Get the information out there. Share it with any of your friends or family that have any inflammation or any health issue. They’re gonna benefit totally. And then also, feel free and check out drjockers.com. Dr. Jockers has got the best blog post out there. Amazing infographics. Again, even if you don’t want to read it, if you just check out the images in these blogs, you can learn so much.
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah. Thanks so much, man. That’s a— That’s a big thing we try do on my website. It’s make it as image rich as possible. I hate reading websites where it’s just narrative, you know. It’s like I tune out quickly. So, we really try to make it as image rich as possible; give people a really great reader experience. I appreciate you acknowledging that.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You got it, Dr. Dave. Well, I appreciate everything and look forward to the summit going live in the next month. Everyone click down below. Subscribe.
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Dr. David, it’s great chatting with you. We’ll talk real soon.
Dr. David Jockers: Absolutely. By the way, uhm— you definitely want to tune in. Day two (2) for Dr. J’s talk, where he really jives into Hypothyroidism and the Ketogenic Diet. We go a lot deeper than we did today.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, that’s great. Awesome. Very cool. Well, Thank you so much for that plug and we’ll talk soon Dr. David. Take care.
Dr. David Jockers: Alright. Take care.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Bye.
References:
Keto Edge Summit Sign up: https://justinhealth.com/ketoedge
“Press-Pulse Theory” for Cancer by Dr. Thomas Seyfried
Benefits of Ketogenic Diet by Dr. Dominic D’Agostino, University of South Florida
https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/microbiology
Brain Health and Brain Performance with Cavin Balaster – Podcast #182
Welcome to another functional medicine video with Dr. Justin Marchegiani and the author of the book, “Feed a Brain,” Cavin Balaster! In this video, they talk about brain health and brain performance. They delve on healing from brain injuries and neurotherapies. They also talk about improving neuroplasticity and optimal nutrition for the brain in helping your brain work better.
Stay tuned for more knowledge bombs!
Cavin Balaster
In this episode, we cover:
01:00 TBI: Severe Diffuse Axonal Injury
07:30 Videonystagmography and Vestibular Ocular Reflex
23:44 Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation, Gyrus Stem, Low-level Light Therapy
27:00 Ketogenic Diet and Brain Health
40:30 DHA and EPA for Neurological Health
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey there! It’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani with Calvin Balaster. Really excited. Today’s all gonna be about brain health. Not only brain health and brain performance— Uh— Calvin’s got a very unique hi— history where he’s healed from brain— a brain injury himself, personally. So, we’re gonna get the nitty gritty of what he’s been able to do to heal, techniques. He also has a book that’s out called, “Feed a Brain,” and you can go to feedabrain.com to check out his book, where he talks about optimal nutrition for brain and neurological health, increasing neuroplasticity, helping your brain work better. Calvin, welcome to the show, man.
Cavin Balaster: Thanks so much, Justin. I had to correct you, it’s Cavin, without the l—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, I’m sorry. [crosstalk] Cavin. I alread— I want to go Calvin. It’s like calvin. It’s like…
Cavin Balaster: [crosstalk] Everybody does it. It’s a common fault. That is totally wrong.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …that missing— Yeah. Totally.
Cavin Balaster: [laughs] I’d had people be like, “Hey. Yo— You misspelled your name.” I’m like, “Oh, man!”
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: [laughs]
Cavin Balaster: “I’ve been doing that all my [crosstalk] life.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: If you’re so smart— [laughs]
Cavin Balaster: [laughs]
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I know.
Cavin Balaster: I know. Totally, man.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And I knew it was Cavin. It’s just that like— you know. [crosstalk] Got it. Thanks for the correction. So, yeah, Cavin Balaster here. So, let’s dig in, man. Let’s start out with your history. You have a really unique history. What— 2011, you had a— a TBI, Traumatic Brain Injury. Is that true?
Cavin Balaster: Yeah, Severe Traumatic Brain Injury. A Severe Diffuse Axonal Injury, and if you go on Google and type in Diffuse Axonal Injury, you get source after source that all say 90% of patients with this injury [crosstalk] never regained consciousness.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. [crosstalk] I mean, yeah.
Cavin Balaster: And that the 10% that do most turn to vegetative state.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Unbelievable that you were able to thrive, and uh— I mean, you’re— you’re functioning at higher end. I mean, doing this kind of work. I mean, it takes a brain power. And to come from where you were— what, six or seven years ago, to where you are now is amazing. And you’re helping— you know— thousands of people. [crosstalk] So, that’s amazing. So, what happens? So, you had this fall, right?
Cavin Balaster: So, alright. So, I had from, like you said, like— First of all, I woke up, which is thank God. That’s the— I— I feel privileged, fortunate, lucky uhm— purposeful-like, but additionally, I— I— I’m looking into what I was doing to protect my— my brain. And I think uh— Ketogenic style metabolism plays into it. Uhm—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Huge.
Cavin Balaster: And the— And I— I wasn’t like into nutrition at that point but I wouldn’t eat all day. You now— So, I wouldn’t eat all day. You know, so I was proba— probably enter and do a Ketogenic metabolism. But, that’s a whole nother story. Let me uhm— break down what happened. So, I…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Cavin Balaster: …fell. I wake up from a coma. I didn’t eat, walk or talk for months. My left hands was totally flexed inward. I was breathing through a tube in my neck. I was…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow.
Cavin Balaster: …receiving nutrition through a tube in my belly, and I got to put nutrition, air ports.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.
Cavin Balaster: We’ll come back to that, but yeah. The— the foods they give you are just loaded with corn syrup and soy…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Cavin Balaster: …for protein.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Play out GMO too, right?
Cavin Balaster: Yes, exactly. Exactly. So, uhm— [pause] So, [pause] a lot played into my recovery. Uhm— As I regained my— my everyday in my normal abilities—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And when you fell, you fell head first, right?
Cavin Balaster: I hit my head on steel scaffolding. I was on the rooftop water tower…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Cavin Balaster: …and I hit my head on the steel scaffolding on the way down.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uuh!
Cavin Balaster: And. I hit the back of my head on the concrete rooftop.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh my gosh!
Cavin Balaster: Yeah. [crosstalk] I—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: [crosstalk] Yo— You— You’re coming to, you’ve mentioned— Or say, so now like what? Walk us through like when were you like, “Okay. Here’s the conventional physical therapy path.” Like, when did you start to deviate and…
Cavin Balaster: Uhmhm—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …starting to discover these natural therapies.
Cavin Balaster: Awesome. Well, I— Actually, my— my aunt was getting into functional neurology. She is nurse practi— or, sorry…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Cavin Balaster: …non-neurology functional medicine. She’s a— She’s a nurse practitioner, and she asked one of her colleagues. She told her that— that her nephew had sustained a Severe Traumatic Brain Injury. What— Where should he go? You know— And her colleague was like, I— I— you know— know exactly who I had to take you to. It was my loved one, but he lives all the way in Austin, Texas. And uh— my mother lives in Austin. My mom was like by my side within hours and stuck me through— through my five months hot— months hospitalization. And then, brought me to her home in Austin to recover.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow.
Cavin Balaster: So, I was in Austin. And so, that’s where I started seeing a functional neurologist uhm— and he introduced me to a…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: [crosstalk] What was his name?
Cavin Balaster: [crosstalk] …a special protocol. His name’s Dr. Thomas [crosstalk] Culleton.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Culleton, right? Yeah, I know Culleton. He’s great.
Cavin Balaster: I love Culleton. Yeah, he’s great.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I see.
Cavin Balaster: So, uhm— see— Yeah, well, I’m seeing Culleton, and he uhm— he puts me on a— on nutritional protocol. And, uhm— again, nutrition wasn’t on my RADAR at that point, but I was like, “I’m doing whatever it takes to get better.” And if— you know— if I’ve been steered here, and he says, “Change your diet,” guess what I’m doing— you know.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely.
Cavin Balaster: And then I began seeing how much of a difference nutrition was making, and I was like, “Whoah! Alright.” And so, I dove into study. I began research. First, I was learning what had happened ‘cause I’d been a fog for almost a year since my injury— Total Brain Fog. And so I started going through medical records, text messages, emails like, deciphering what happened. And then, at the same time, why did nutrition makes such a big difference, and how could I optimize my recovery. So, that’s where I went down the a rabbit hole. I— I was studying like my life depended on it because it did. And this is a common story with anybody who w— who was uhm— hit with a— with a debilitating condition, where with something that just changes everything, guess what you do. You study like your life depends on it, right? And so, here I am studying, and then at the same ti— like I’m learning how to walk at this point.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.
Cavin Balaster: But, we have the internet, and I’m able to reach people all over the globe that are doing things like you’re doing, and— and reaching people all over the place from their homes when they’re unable to go outside— you know. And— and that— So, I’m so thankful of what you’re doing, Dr. J. And—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, I appreciate that. I appreciate it…
Cavin Balaster: Absolutely.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …and i love the stories, the inspiration, because there’s always someone out there, whether it’s someone that got a TBI from a car accident or a fall like yourself, or sports, or just they’re in a Chronic Brain Fog because of their diet and inflammation. I think the principles that you used to help you recover are gonna be at least a starting point for everyone. So, you hook uh— hooked up with— with Cullerton. He did some of the neurological work with you.
Cavin Balaster: Uhmhm—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Was he doing some exercises and was there any adjusting? What kind of— kind of therapies was he adding to his uh— to your protocol to help get you healed up? And then, we’ll deal with some of the nutrition and supplement stuff later on.
Cavin Balaster: Yeah, absolutely. Yes. He was doing— He was doing a lot of stuff up…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Cavin Balaster: …particularly with my eyes.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm—
Cavin Balaster: Uhm— And I was seeing a Neuro-Optometrist. So, one of the main things he did was uh— [stutter] One of them, like most pivotal things, to my understanding, that he did was that he put me in a uh— he gave me a VNG, which is Videonystagmography. Big words. Basically, you put on these goggles…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Cavin Balaster: …that videotape your eyeballs. And then, he spun me in a chair. Because what happens when you’re spun in the chair is you have what’s called the Vestibular Ocular Reflex. So, your Vestibular System and your Visual System are very connected. So, if I— if like— If I look at you and I shake my head but I keep my I on you, I’m able to do that. Because, essentially, when you turn your head one way, the Vestibular Ocular Reflex automatically tails your eyes to move the other way. Even if your eyes are closed with no visual stimuli, right? So— So, it was really interesting. When I spun in the chair, my eyes barely moved. They slowly moved the other way, and then what would suppose to happen is, your eyes go the other way, then they kind of bounce back and forth while you have like two reflexes sort of battling it out. You have the Vestibular Ocular Reflex, which wants to move in the opposite direction that you’re moving, and then you have uh— you— You want to look straight, like your eyes want to continue looking straight. So, itt kind of boobles back and forth. Mine slowly moved over the one side and didn’t move. And so, there was— there was a problem with this— this very primitive uh— neurological reflex. I mean…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it.
Cavin Balaster: …every mammal has this reflex. [crosstalk] And I don’t have it anymore.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: [crosstalk] So, what happened next? So he saw this reflex was missing. What was the next step?
Cavin Balaster: So, we started doing Vestibular Therapy, right? I— I actually began uhm— doing his— I have a— Have you ever seen a Gyrus stem?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Cavin Balaster: Or uh— some of the— some of the functional neurology equipment? So, he didn’t have a Gyrus stem but this is what’s cool. We can— We can mimic a lot of the— the same effects uhm— because I— I got to the point where I was in much better health, nutritionally. And I was able to do— I was doing Aquatic therapy, and I was able to do a backflip in the pool. So, i— he— it was— I mean, he told me. It’s like, “You do Aquatic therapy. Do you think you could do a backflip in the pool?” Not a backflip like out of the water. Into the pool…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.
Cavin Balaster: Although I do that now, but at the time like I would do it underwater, like just spin myself. Because I would activate the uh— semicircular canals, uhm— and affect my— my brain and affect my eyes, which affects your brain. Like, in fact, you have 12 cranial nerves.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.
Cavin Balaster: Four of those are dedicated to your Visual system. One-third of your cranial nerves— one-third of the nerves that are— that make up the output from your brain to your body are dedicated to these two little peepers.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm—
Cavin Balaster: That’s amazing. So, that’s why your eyes are the window to your brain. We’ve heard, “The eyes are the window to the soul,” right? The eyes are— From a neurological perspective, you can see so much about how the brain is functioning, and how well it’s uh— interpreting the world through vision.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. we have our number six (6) cranial nerve. That’s uh— basically, controls the lateral rectus, eyes going out this way and this way. Abducens, right? We have the Superior Oblique…
Cavin Balaster: Uhmhm—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …which is gonna be down and in. [crosstalk] —the Oculomotor.
Cavin Balaster: So, yeah. The Trochlear nerve, what you’re talking about, the— it’s a superior oblique.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep.
Cavin Balaster: That was what was partially damaged with me, and it’s very common with Brain Injury, uh— Fourth Nerve Injuries are very common because that…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm—
Cavin Balaster: …that cranial nerve actually wraps around your brain stem, whereas the other ones just kind of straight shot. So, it has more surface area to be damaged.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: [breathes]
Cavin Balaster: And it’s pretty common.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, what were the top three exercises that— that Culleton worked on with you that really had the best bang for your buck? Like, you started doing these. These become part of your routine. What really moved the needle for you on uh—exercise stimulation standpoint?
Cavin Balaster: Uh— E— I mean, it’s— It’s very specific to—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm—
Cavin Balaster: …to different patients. I’m actually toured Revive Treatment Centers in Denver, which is a Functional Neurology uh—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, awesome!
Cavin Balaster: …Treatment Center. It’s awesome. I love it here. That’s where we got the uh— the spine over there. Uhm—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it.
Cavin Balaster: Yeah. And uhm— So— So—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And I— And just a caveat for everyone, I know it’s gonna be 100% individualized for you…
Cavin Balaster: Yes.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …with your testing. But just— just for the listeners. We’re not gonna like lis— you know— people who are d— having a brain injury, go see someone and get tested…
Cavin Balaster: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …specifically. But I just want to know your pattern. What really moved the needle for you?
Cavin Balaster: I know. Honestly, if you want to learn more, about Functional Neurology…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm—
Cavin Balaster: …check out my podcast. I interviewed all sorts of brilliant Functional Neurologists. Uhm— It’s the Adventures in Brain Injury Podcast.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We’ll put the link below, adventuresinbraininjury.com. We’ll put the URL below.
Cavin Balaster: Uhmhm—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We’ll put it in the show notes. We’re also gonna put feedabrain.com. So, if you guys are listening and you want to access it, just click below in the description, ether on YouTube or the podcast, and you’ll see it there.
Cavin Balaster: Nice.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hope you—
Cavin Balaster: Yeah. And again, the Adventures in Brain Injury podcasts— I came into this from a brain injury, but we are going way beyond brain injury. Brain—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.
Cavin Balaster: Yeah. Alright. So, uhm— Some of the exercises I did, first of all, the backflips in the pool. Uhm—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm—
Cavin Balaster: That— That really helped uhm— get my vision back together to a large degree so, I still have Diplopia or Double Vision but to a much lesser degree than what I did have. And my— my eyes teemed better in my best ability, like, the reflex is better, and all that seems like, “Yeah. It’s your vision.” You know, like uhm— I mean, what I said is like when— when my mom started taking me to a vision therapy, I was like, “So, I’ll have to wear glasses for the rest of my life, big deal? It’s not like other people don’t have to do that.” She’s like, “We’re doing it.” And then, I was like, “I— I need to re— I need to learn how to run and— and— and relearn how to walk and balance, and all these stuff.” And she’s like, “We’re on a vision therapy.” And I am so glad she took me there because, again, your eyes lend so much to everything else when it comes to your brain. So uh—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.
Cavin Balaster: So, there’s a gem for you, like Neuro-Optometry and— and uh— Functional Neurology have to do with the Vestibular Rehabilitation, uhm— Balance, and then— and then, affecting different uhm— different uhm— modes and— and uh— [hisses inward] How do I say this? So, do you know Vibration Platforms?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm—
Cavin Balaster: Are you familiar with using ones?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. One right to my— right over here in the corner…
Cavin Balaster: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …of my gym.
Cavin Balaster: Nice. Nice. Yep. I have one as well. I—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent.
Cavin Balaster: I actually got a Vibration Platform so that I could work with it everyday, because uhm— your balance is so important as well. That’s vestibular, right? And, for many brain injury uhm— Many people that have brain injury or any nerve degeneration, or anything, they have trouble telling where they are in space and time. So, for example, me. Uh— Dr. Culleton said, “Put your feet together, stand up and then, close your eyes.”
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm—
Cavin Balaster: And I did, and I like, “Tuub!” Toppled over. Right? Like, just started falling. And he caught me and all that, right?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Cavin Balaster: But then, he uhm— and— and he’s like, “Yep. Let’s try putting you on a Vibration Platform and do it.” And did there, and I was able to stand. And, the reason why is because—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: More input.
Cavin Balaster: Yeah, more input, right? And your body keeps on getting, like everything is firing…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Cavin Balaster: …and telling your brain like, “Okay. This is happening over here.” So, that was part of the rehabilitation that was really important.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, the Whole Body Vibration stuff. Are there any specific exercises you’re doing daily that— Do you do any Cardinal gay stuff? Were you following Effinger? Or do you do any of the— Were you following the red and white strips, the— the OPQ—
Cavin Balaster: Uhmhm—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …kind of O— OPK Strip? [crosstalk] Uhm—- Is there anything else that you’re doing? What’s your daily routine looking like from an exercise, a neurological exercise standpoint?
Cavin Balaster: I really love that you know uhm— of— of most of these uhm— most of these [crosstalk] modalities.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Techniques.
Cavin Balaster: [crosstalk] A lot of…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. That’s great.
Cavin Balaster: …functional medicine doctors are not aware. I was like, when I—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think it’s important. Yeah.
Cavin Balaster: I think it is so important, and I really love like how ahead, of uh— of a lot of times, you are, and I’m— I’m hopeful that a lot of your listeners are as well. And I— I love being able to promote and then spread this information so that we can help more people…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I love it.
Cavin Balaster: …in our lives, positively. [crosstalk] Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I love it.
Cavin Balaster: So, all of it was great. Uhm— I— I tend to be extremely busy with things so uhm— So, I— I tried to consolidate my therapy exercises.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Let’s hear it. [crosstalk] How did it look?
Cavin Balaster: So, one of the things I do is a Brock string…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep.
Cavin Balaster: …which basically, you tie a string, you have some beads on it, and you bring it to your nose and you look at the beads. And what happens is your eyes focus on a spot. And, it’s so hard to explain this. And you see like two strings. They go into the dot you’re focusing on, and then go out. And uhm— May— Maybe, you put that in the notes or something because uh— I have been trying to explain that in the way that like most people understand, but most people look at me like, “What the hell are you talking about?” So—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I get it.
Cavin Balaster: [laughs]
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.
Cavin Balaster: Yeah. I do that uhm— some uh— you know— and then the rest of the— of uh— and no nose as well. Like as I’m going down on that. As I’m like going up and down on the beads so that I’m testing these different gazes, and I change my gaze a little bit. The whole point is if I didn’t keep my gaze, if I didn’t keep uhm— things single uhm— wh— where I— from whatever gaze, which I am unable to do. But, that’s what I’m working to be able to do because vision lends so much to attention. And attention is everything.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You may benefit from brainhq.com. I actually got—
Cavin Balaster: I’ve heard of BrainHQ.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I got this website from a— from Tom Brady, not personally, but in his book. Tom…
Cavin Balaster: Cool
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …was a— you know— famous quarterback from the New England Patriots. Huge Brady fan.
Cavin Balaster: Oh, yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: —is this for Visual Acuity, looking off receivers, you know— being able to look…
Cavin Balaster: Uhmhm—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …across the field. So, it’s basically computer program that involves things moving. And you look in the center and then you pick up and you count.
Cavin Balaster: Right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh— You can download the app for [crosstalk] your own—
Cavin Balaster: I had actually— I just remembered, I’ve used BrainHQ. Uhm— I was part of a uh— a study for the University of Pittsburgh, where I had my brain scanned with High-definition Fiber Tracking, uhm— which is just an amazing technology. Basically breaks down the uh— neurons and axons fibers into 2.4 millimeter cubed voxels or three-dimensional pixels.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow.
Cavin Balaster: So, we can see where neurons start, where they ends, or where were these groupings of neurons. Because, who want a 4-millimeter cube to super uhm— it’s— it’s super high-definition. However, we have 86 billion neurons in our brain.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.
Cavin Balaster: So, each one of those has like thousands. But, you know, they get damaged in groups so we cannot— We can see so much with them.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: [crosstalk] So, I’m just listening to some of the things you’re saying right now. Just to kind of break it off the people at home, I think Vibration Therapy I think is great. Have you had access to a Vibration plate? I think using some of the BrainHQ applications uh— are doing similar with some of the exercises you’re doing at home. So, that’s just two off the bat. Exercises that I’m just trying to give people that are listening at home, things that they could do…
Cavin Balaster: Hm—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …maybe just help. Uh—Anything else you want to add, or do you want to add to the BrainHQ stuff?
Cavin Balaster: Yeah. So, BrainHQ, I used it for a bit. It was cool, uhm— but it’s also a— It wasn’t very specialized and it wasn’t uhm— It wasn’t as useful as some of the— the tools that I’ve seen out there, and that I’ve actually uhm— used uhm— myself, like, even apps that you can download for free. I used [crosstalk] one.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Which ones _____[20:15]?
Cavin Balaster: So, I— I used one called Elevate…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm—
Cavin Balaster: …which is great. Uhm— Also, just to keep my brain sharp after my injury, I began doing uhm— Khan Academy type things, where— So—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm—
Cavin Balaster: Khan Academy was great because it walks you through Math from whatever place you are, and then moving up and up and up. And uh— And I began taking like SAT Questions on my phone as well. So, there’s different aspects of neurological recovery because the thing is, what you want to do to— to keep your brain sharp or to improve your brain— Yeah. To improve your brain or to rehabilitate your brain is basically if something’s difficult, that’s what you need to do.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Correct.
Cavin Balaster: And I— I think of it like uh— like— you know— What you’ve been doing all your life, you’ve— you’ve basically— It’s a pathway that you’ve been do— using for so long that that pathway is now like a six-lane highway. And when you want to do something else, if you want to choose a different route, you need to go through the woods, right?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.
Cavin Balaster: And so, it’s— [stutter] You need some like motivation to go through the woods as well. And with that uh— That‘s a whole nother uhm— a whole nother book that I’m working at actually. It’s about finding motivation and the— the mindset, you need beyond recovery. But to like, for an optimal mind, uhm— using— using your— your brain and your tension, and your uhm— emotions to your benefit, to bring about the outcome you earn for.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I love it. And what are some of the things that you’re trying to accomplish at the Neurological Center up in Colorado…
Cavin Balaster: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …this weekend?
Cavin Balaster: So, I’m actually out here uhm— on my way to L.A. to speak for the World Congress on Brain Mapping and Therapeutics.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Cool.
Cavin Balaster: And I’m actually going to be bringing up some of the neuroimaging that I did in the University of Pittsburgh, uhm—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, great.
Cavin Balaster: …because they skin my brain uhm— in October 2016 and then again in uuuh— Ma— May? Yeah, May of two thousand— No, July of 2017. And so uhm— And so— We have a company.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s okay.
Cavin Balaster: So, uhm— [laughs] So, yes uuuh—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 2016, you got the mapping done. And then what kind of uh— plasticity changes uhm— have you seen since then?
Cavin Balaster: Well, so Dr. Okonkwo over at uhm— uh— University of Pittsburgh, he said to me— He was like— you know— “We saw— There were places in your brain that felt out of normal range on— in the first scan. And here in the next scan, we see them within the nerve— the— the normal range.” So, I’m really excited. I’m actually working on getting the actual like scans to present. And it’s kind of been a little uh— a little tricky but remember…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Cause I— I remember— We— We talked, like maybe three years ago, one of the PaleoFX’s and I can see over the years you continue to improve. I can see with the eye [crosstalk] and then with the speech, it continues to…
Cavin Balaster: Yes.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …get better and better and better so, there’s definitely neuroplasticity that’s happening year after year. So, that must be really exciting for you huh?
Cavin Balaster: It’s great. It’s awesome. You know uhm— So, what I’m doing that revived is— is TMS, which is Transcranial…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Cavin Balaster: …Magnetic Stimulation.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm—
Cavin Balaster: Uhm— HBOT so I prepared Oxygen therapy, uhm— Gyrus stem. So, like the backflips on the like on steroids with the adult-sized Gyrus Scope. Uhm— We’re doing a Low-Level Light Therapy uhm— so— so, Cold lasers. Stimula—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We do it over the area here you hit?
Cavin Balaster: Yeah, and over the area that’s damaged. What’s really cool is that I— I— I have neuroimaging to actually see where there’s— where there’s structural damage uhm— and— And so, it’s— it’s really cool to be able to affect change with this.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Have you done any SPECT Scans at all, like— like Dr. [stutters] Dr. Ayman [crosstalk] does?
Cavin Balaster: Right. No, I haven’t, actually.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Have you done any of the uhm— any of the Neurofeedback Scans that Dr. Andrew Hill does?
Cavin Balaster: I have not. No.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’ve been curious. [crosstalk] I’m really capable of— imagine those probably on your list. You got a lot of things…
Cavin Balaster: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …that— that are really queue, right?
Cavin Balaster: If you want to uh— make an introduction or anything, that’d be great.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh!
Cavin Balaster: Uhm—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely, man. I think with your podcast and everything— you know— it’d be great promotion to get you in there, and it’d be— you know— be awesome to share your experience on the show. So, yeah. I mean if— Let me know. I can get you connected with Dr. Andrew Hill. That’s awesome. I would love…
Cavin Balaster: Nice.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …to see that. Uhm— Whichever collea— uhm— Oh, what’s his name? Ben Greenfield…
Cavin Balaster: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …just did something with Dr. Andrew Hill last year with some of the brain mapping stuff. So, I would love to see you connect because I think, with your injury and then the healing process, I think it’s great to see the healing happen over time.
Cavin Balaster: Yeah. And uh— I was just on uh— uh— Ben’s podcast, not too long ago.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, cool.
Cavin Balaster: And it was— It was fantastic. Yeah. I really like that guy. And thank you so much for what you said about— about uhm— seeing my improvement.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh.
Cavin Balaster: You know—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s— It’s night and day.
Cavin Balaster: Nice. That’s exactly what Michelle uh— Norris says.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh.
Cavin Balaster: She—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: To—
Cavin Balaster: She—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally night and day.
Cavin Balaster: Then, yeah. She’s seen— seen me going through all this. And what uh— you know— As far as the diet goes, like I was troubleshooting my dietary protocol for a long time, trying to find what was going to optimize my recovery. And uhm— [coughs] And, you know— As— As I figured it out, they were definitely bad days where I’d be like, “Oh, that didn’t work.” And like for…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.
Cavin Balaster: …example, PaleoFX. Like I’m totally guilty of getting a bunch of Paleo junk food.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, totally.
Cavin Balaster: Ain’t going at it, right? Uhm— And I think that’s— that’s like uh— a piece of the whole like— you know— People thinking, “Well, this is healthy because Paleo.” Well, no, not necessarily. Well, this is— uh— not necessarily, right?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. Uh—
Cavin Balaster: —for you if it’s healthy…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm—
Cavin Balaster: …right?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right. Uh— Paleo tree is definitely better than going full-on out Gluten and stuff, but yeah. We got…
Cavin Balaster: Right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …to keep it within the 80-20 or 90-10, you know— what— whatever that percentage is for you. So, what’s your diet looking like right now? Are you kind of a Keto, Paleo, really trying to get the therapeutic levels of ketones up?
Cavin Balaster: So, yes. I think ketones are awesome.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Cavin Balaster: However, my book does not require a Ketogenic diet at all because, really, ketones— Well, Ketogenic metabolism— a lot of people aren’t prepared [crosstalk] to metabolize ketones, and to go on a strict Ketogenic diet, it will screw up their adrenals, it can screw up their thyroid…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm— Uhmhm—
Cavin Balaster: …like— There’s a lot of things that— There’s— There’s some new ones that you need to be careful of.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm—
Cavin Balaster: So, the Feet-to-Brain Protocol makes room for Ketogenic diet and helps you like move into it, because, essentially, what I did is I learned about a Ketogenic diet and I tiptoed into it, and slowly moved and saw how it felt like got my body used to metabolizing fat, bit by bit. And, when I was able to get to a therapeutic uhm— ketone level. Like, now— now, it’s like I very, very, very rarely eat grains. Like, I only eat grains uhm— as a treat like you were saying, right? Uhm— I— I keep an eye on my blood sugar— you know— what— But I pretty much know what my blood sugar is like, based on how I feel…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm—
Cavin Balaster: …because I’ve measured so many times. So, actually, I want to tell your listeners like, that one of the best things you can do for your health is monitor your blood sugar.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hmhm—
Cavin Balaster: And uhm— I— I have an article on my website—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I got my Blood Sugar Meter right here.
Cavin Balaster: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: [crosstalk] You tell me you have over there too.
Cavin Balaster: Nice. So, feedabrain.com/bloodsugar uhm— lays out like what the deal is with blood sugar, and yeah, I— I— I uhm— level. I actually used a level device uhm— for breath uh— ketone analysis. Uhm—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, cool.
Cavin Balaster: And that things like medical grade uhm— and— and— They had me testing it out. I actually brought it here to revive, and we’re— we’re testing the ketones and seeing how— how uh— how my metabolism is doing as we go through things. So, yeah. Uhm— But as far as— As far as Ketogenic goes, it’s extremely neuroprotective, but your brain health is so dependent on your overall health. So, you— So— So, when transitioning to a Ketogenic diet, it’s not healthy for your brain to just— to— to be super [pause] Ke— m— Keto when your adrenals are shutting down, you know. Uhm— So— So, be careful tiptoeing into it, but yeah. I’m a huge, huge proponent of— of Ketogenic metabolism.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, give us a rundown. What’s breakfast, lunch, and dinner looking like? And I also want to dive into of how you apply fasting or intermittent fasting.
Cavin Balaster: Uhmhm—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I know there’s some great benefits with the Cellular Autophagy, which is kind of cleaning up some of those damaged cells. So, let’s go into your diet. What’s breakfast, lunch and dinner? And then, how are you applying fasting if you are?
Cavin Balaster: Nice. So, breakfast is— Breakfast means “break fast.”
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Break fasting.
Cavin Balaster: So when— It’s really— So, every night, we’re fasting, right? We fast for at least however long we sleep uhm— and usually longer, like hopefully, eight hours at least, right? Uhm— And then we break that fast. A lot of people are so caught up on that breakfast foods need to be break— or breakfast needs to be breakfast foods. So, it got to be uh— So, it got to be cereal or oatmeal, or pancakes, or bacon…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Peptides.
Cavin Balaster: …or eggs, or pop-tarts— Right! Or whatever— you know— fruit salad or whatever uh— general meals says I should be eating for breakfast, right? And uh— [pause] uhm— [pause] And so, yeah. My breakfast is usually— It’s usually grains with uhm— with proteins like uh— fish or like a coldwater fatty fish…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm—
Cavin Balaster: …hopefully, live-caught, uhm— or steak. I’ll often have steak for breakfast.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, really good protein and fat, and you really jumped— [crosstalk] You’re really getting the fat in there, too?
Cavin Balaster: Absolutely, yeah. Protein—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, full fat meats?
Cavin Balaster: Absolutely, yeah. Some days I’ll— I’ll also incorporate some— some uh— heavily-buttered uhm— drink, or— or…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Of course.
Cavin Balaster: …I— I actually use Ghee ‘cause I— I react to— to [crosstalk] low-fat.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: The Casein and Lactose, right?
Cavin Balaster: Yeah. Yeah. So, I—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So like— Like kind of a bulletproof coffee kind of thing, right?
Cavin Balaster: Yeah. Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Cavin Balaster: Somewhere there. Right. And— And the whole point is just to get that to like uhm— stoke the fire with some—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Get the ketones.
Cavin Balaster: …with some like wood— with some like heavy wood…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Cavin Balaster: …to— to— to build that fire, instead of throwing kindling on it, which is what general meals wants you to do.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. That— That’s my— I’ve been using that analogy for a decade [crosstalk] with my patient—
Cavin Balaster: [crosstalk] It’s a great analogy.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: —like you got the fire, the wood is— that’s the protein and fat. And then, the more refined the carbohydrates go, the more it goes from twigs to paper to gasoline, which is…
Cavin Balaster: Nice.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …like alcohol refined sugar.
Cavin Balaster: Right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, yeah. I— I think that’s— I think that’s— I think that’s really good. And then, imagine uh— lunch and dinner kind of the same thing: good meats, additional fat, full fatty cut, veggies. Is that— It’s kind of the— the gist.
Cavin Balaster: Yeah. Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Cavin Balaster: Uhm— And, as far as produce goes, I actually uhm— I separated to three different types of produce…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hmm—
Cavin Balaster: …uhm— that— that I make sure I get. So, dark leafy greens…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm—
Cavin Balaster: …colored and sulfur-containing— the three different types of uh— of produce you get. And then, also, seaweed and organ meats and coldwater fatty fish. I— I have this like a real deal superfood and probiotics, or fermented foods.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, that sounds like you’ve been listening to— to Dr. Terry Wahls, with the— with the three areas. Is that correct?
Cavin Balaster: Yes. Dr. Wahls uh— played a huge part of what it means to feed the brain, absolutely.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.
Cavin Balaster: Uhm— I really, really, really respect her research, and just who she is as general. I love…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Cavin Balaster: …her work.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I was on a— I was on a panel with her at PaleoFX, maybe…
Cavin Balaster: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …three years ago. He’s— She’s great. That’s awesome. Alright. So, we hit the diet, and then just kind of things like— Some people, they may have blood sugar instability, whether it’s Adrenal Dysfunction, or Thyroid issue. They may not be able to do as much fasting. Simple things for the listeners, everyone should be able to do at least the 12-hour fast. So, whether your last meal is at 8:00 PM, you can have breakfast at 8:00 AM the next day. That could be an easy 12-hour way to get some of that Cellular Autophagy recycling. I’m just curious, how are you applying fasting to your— your brain healing program?
Cavin Balaster: Perfect. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. I also eat one or two meals day. Usually, two meals. Uhm— and— you know— I— I— Breakfast and dinner, usually. So— But then, sometimes, I’ll— I’ll uh— I’ll fast. And— And here’s the deal. With— When I fast, I fast when I don’t feel like eating— you know—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm— Uhmhm—
Cavin Balaster: Like, “You know, I— I don’t think I need a meal right now.” Like, “I’m just gonna drink water.” And uh— And that’s how— That’s how I’ll fast. If I feel like eating, you better believe I’m eating, you know.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And you’re making sure you’re getting enough nutrition during the day as well. So, those meals— if you’re doing two meals a day…
Cavin Balaster: Yes.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …they have to be big meals.
Cavin Balaster: Big meal
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: They’re not like— And they got to be very purposeful with— you know— lots of phytonutrients, lot of good fat, right? So, you really got to make sure you get enough calories…
Cavin Balaster: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …i.e., nutrients, to sustain yourself, right?
Cavin Balaster: Yes, absolutely, especially, the produce. Uhm— Produce and Protein, I mean, all that— Like, for the brain health, I will— I will have just a massive salad…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Cavin Balaster: …or like two or three of them, with— with some nice healthy uhm— uh— grass-fed, pasteurized or wild-caught protein meat— you know— And then, lots of fats and oils on there…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm—
Cavin Balaster: Uhm— That’s— That’s what I’ll— I’ll— I’ll do. And, I often do a Bone Broth Fast…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm—
Cavin Balaster: …as well.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s great.
Cavin Balaster: Yes, it’s great. Here we got the electrolytes. We got the protein in there. And it’s just— It’s— It’s a nice uhm— nice like cleansing. Uhm— It feels great. You’ll— You’ll notice. If you do a Bone Broth Fast, especially, if you add in some— some uh— fats and oils to that, it really— it feels— it feels great. I— I have great clarity from that.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s awesome. And then, do you uhm— take any extra Hydrochloric or acid or enzymes to help with the digestion, or do you feel like you’re able to process everything really well.
Cavin Balaster: I don’t, but some of my clients do. Uhm— I— I— I— I’m— I’m pretty good at this point.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Are you working with a lot of patients now?
Cavin Balaster: I am. Uhm—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, great.
Cavin Balaster: Actually, I’m out here uhm— in one of my— one of my clients uhm— Her— Her son is I revived. And so, I— I just happen to be coming through and I was like, “This is great. I’ll be able to like see you and meet your family, and hang out with you guys. And it was— [stutters] It’s so good to see them and then to see how we can optimize their— their recovery because honestly— I mean, honestly, one— Like, this is a family that is going to the best— going to the best Neurorehabilitation Clinic in— in— in the world that they could find but it happened there. Well, the— One of the best in the world, and it happened to be uh— Shirley Ryan in uhm— in Chicago. And…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm— Uhmhm—
Cavin Balaster: …that is one of the best, according to the old model of Neurology.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.
Cavin Balaster: [stutters] And, what we’re doing— what I’m trying to do is— is improve the standard model in Neurorehabilitation. And—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I mean, the standard model of rehabilitation, it’s like you got a brain injury. I mean, uh— I mean, it’s like, sit in the corner i— you know— turn the lights off, wear some sunglasses. Like, what else is there? I mean, they don’t really do much in the mainstream medical system for brain injuries or concussions, or even that matter of fact. I mean, I’ve talked with uh— Dr. Russell Teames, who works with Dr. Brandon Brock…
Cavin Balaster: Yeah. [crosstalk] Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …there probably with the Karakin. You know, we talked about the— to just comparing the two models. And you don’t have many options on the conventional side, but there’s a ton of models, where we— you know— all the neurological exercises that you mentioned, all of the diet and lifestyle strategies, and then, all of the supplementation, whether you’re doing supplements to help with— with the Nerve II pathways, whether it’s Green Tea, or Resveratrol, or— or Acetylcholine, or various antioxidant extracts to help with Mitochondrial recovery. So— S— So many more options, so many more tools in our toolbelt, right?
Cavin Balaster: Absolutely. Absolutely. There’s so much we can do. And, I mean, that— you know— they weren’t catching his hormones or pituitary function, or a l— a lot of things that we—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm—
Cavin Balaster: …we can test for to see like where we are in the pathways because, you know, all is discoursed to weak like let’s— Let’s put him in more physical therapy. Well, he’s not— And this is just an example. Like, well, this patient isn’t— isn’t producing human growth uh— hormone. Right? So, like…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right
Cavin Balaster: …we need to fix that if— Well, like we’re gonna exercise until the cows come home, but we don’t have the ingredients. It doesn’t really matter.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly, right? We need— We need Oxygen, we need stimulation and we need, essentially, blood flow to— to make everything work, right? And if you’re chronically inflamed, and the nervous system that read that— that connectivity is weak, then, it’s gonna hard to get all those muscles communicating, right? So, that totally makes sense, what you’re saying. And if people want to get a hold of you, Cavin, because they— you know— they have some kind of issue they want to work out and they want to work with someone that’s been on the trenches like you, how can they reach you?
Cavin Balaster: So, you can go to my website, feedabrain.com/consult or adventuresinbraininjury.com/consult, uhm— and you can email me at uhm— consult at “Feed a Brain” or “Adventures in Brain Injury.” And just let me know what’s going on, and then, if uh— if I think that we can— we can uhm— We can have uh— a powerful chat together…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Cavin Balaster: …you could discovery call, I’ll send you a calendar link and we’ll— we’ll schedule a free consultation.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think that’s great ‘cause I think people need hope that someone’s been there before. And then, if they’ve been there before, they can help you navigate through, which I love. I think that’s great. And I want to get a sense. Number one, I want to just know what are the some of the supplements that you’ve done on the neurological side to improve your brain and performance. And last but not the least, if there’s anything else that you’ve done that we haven’t been able to touch in this conversation, what’s that next thing that you did that was a big needle mover.
Cavin Balaster: No, man. There’s a lot there. [laughs]
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I know.
Cavin Balaster: So—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Let’s start with supplements first. I’ll— Then, I’ll come back to you…
Cavin Balaster: So, yeah. So, supplements. I actually have a handout on feedabrain.com. like…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Great.
Cavin Balaster: …it’s around in the middle of the page.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm— Get uh— five supplements that— that uhm— I take and uhm— I’ll— I’ll tell you what they are also so we have uh— Omega-3, specifically ones high in DHA and EPA, uhm— and especially EPA, or— Sorry. It’s actually DHA, just confusing.
Cavin Balaster: Right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, EPA’s gonna be the 20 Carbon. That’s the— The eat— That’s the one that’s gonna help with inflammation…
Cavin Balaster: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …and you’re saying DHA, the Docosahexaenoic, that’s for the neurological health, right?
Cavin Balaster: Right. You’re right. And I mean, if you have— if you have inflammation in our brain, you definitely want EPA. And, of course, they come together and they work synergistically. So, if you have both, it’s awesome. So, uhm— And— And that— That comes mostly from— from fish oils. I mean— But if you get a fish oil and look on the back and it doesn’t tell you what the EPA and DHA ratio uh— amounts are, that’s not what you want.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Are you using the one from Apex?
Cavin Balaster: I’m not. No. I’m uh—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Which company? Carlson’s or—
Cavin Balaster: No, I’m not. I’m using— Right now, I’m using Xymogen uh—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay.
Cavin Balaster: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup. That’s a good product.
Cavin Balaster: Yeah. It’s good.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent.
Cavin Balaster: The— The DHA one. I really like the ones—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: What’s next? What’s next…
Cavin Balaster: Uhm—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …on your list?
Cavin Balaster: Next, uh— organ meat supplements.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Cool. Love it.
Cavin Balaster: Because— Because organ meats are awesome if you have a taste for them. Or— you know— But ho— honestly, I travel all the time and uhm— and it’s hard to get organ meats or— or like it. I’m staying with a friend. I’m like, “Hey, I’m gonna cook some organ meats.” And they’re like, “You’re gonna do what?” [laughs] Not hear you huh? So— So, I get supplements. So, there’s this company uhm— called uh— called Ancient Nutrition uhm— or no. No. I’m sorry. Ancient supplements. Ancient Nutrition is like— is like…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. [crosstalk] Ax— Access company. Yup.
Cavin Balaster: [crosstalk] …buy Ancient Supplements. Uhm— And, you can go there. You can use coupon codes FEEDABRAIN for, I think ten or 15% discount…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, cool.
Cavin Balaster: …on there. And then, may [stutters] They have all sorts of different organ meats because a lot of companies are— The companies that do this usually do beef liver, and that’s it. And the fact is we evolved eating all of those organs— you know— like— So, getting a variety of different organ meats is really important as well. So, I really like what they do. They have— They have different kinds for the meats and they also have one that’s like a blend. Uhm— So, that’s— That’s another one. Where— you know— if you dn’t eat organ meat every day, that’s a great option.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it. And then, with the organ meats we’re getting what? We’re getting B12. We may get some extra Iron in there. We may get some fat-soluble vitamin, Vitamin A in there. What other powerful nutrients are in organ meats outside of those that you said?
Cavin Balaster: You’re also getting Choline…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, Choline?
Cavin Balaster: …which is…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.
Cavin Balaster: …super important for— for all sorts of neurotransmitters.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Egg yolks are great for Choline. What else?
Cavin Balaster: They are. They are. Uhm— Uridine as well.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mmm—
Cavin Balaster: Uhm— And Uridine is— is— is also one of the nutrients for synaptogenesis that I’m talking about in the book uhm— because in during each created in the pathway can be created from Choline. But it’s kind of limited. Uhm— we include Uridine monophosphate. It— It just enhances neuroplasticity a great deal.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Awesome. I think that’s also a building block for your RNA, too. Right?
Cavin Balaster: Yes. Yes, it is.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: [crosstalk] Great. What’s next?
Cavin Balaster: alright. So, uh— Organ meats— Oh! Sea vegetables. So…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Iodine.
Cavin Balaster: …sea vegetables, yeah, for your Iodine. right?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm—
Cavin Balaster: Because the majority of the Iodine Americans get are from Iodized salts, which uhm— which isn’t really an optimal. It’s— It’s not very close to food, right? Uhm— So, we can do so much better with— with uh— with sea vegetables. And switching up what sea v— what kinds of sea vegetables you get is also really cool. So, I actually suggest two different supplements. One is a Cho— a Kelp supplement, one is a Dol supplement, and I recommend alternating between the two.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Great. Excellent.
Cavin Balaster: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Anything else?
Cavin Balaster: Neeeed Probiotics. I like…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay.
Cavin Balaster: …Probiotics, as well.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Probiotics for gut health, right? ‘Cause remember uh— you know, right? The gut’s the second brain. I’m just curious. How much success did you have healing your brain by focusing on the gut. What did you notice?
Cavin Balaster: Extreme. Extreme. You know, when I said the nutritional protocol that Culleton put me on, that was a leaky gut protocol. So, I was supplementing with leaky gut healing uhm— compounds, like uh— Glutamine, and Marshmallow root extract.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Cavin Balaster: And then, I was also uhm— sidelines in a little bit for my brain with like Alpha-GPC and— and some other uhm—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.
Cavin Balaster: …and some B, D Vitamins to support my brain health, and then, an elimination diet to heal my digestion. And that’s when I regained clarity. That’s— That would— That changed everything. It [crosstalk] changed everything. So, the—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And I saw on your— on your Feed a Brain website, you interviewed Dr. Kharrazian, and…
Cavin Balaster: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …Dr. Kharrazian lectured before talking about how brain injuries can actually create leaky gut. So, I imagined…
Cavin Balaster: Exactly.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …by helping the brain, you also have to fix the gut, ‘cause you probably developed a leaky gut with the brain injury, right?
Cavin Balaster: Do we have time for— for me to uh—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Cavin Balaster: …to write…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Go ahead.
Cavin Balaster: …analogy here?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Cavin Balaster: So, alright. So, what— Yeah. A— absolutely right about brain injury screwing up digestion. I mean, basically, your brain’s the puppet master, right?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm—
Cavin Balaster: Everything is a puppet, [laughs] right? So, your brain controls everything in your body, and so if you— if you bucked your head and you— you screw up the communication between your brain and your gut, like now we’re having some problems with digestion. So, intestinal permeability or leaky gut is extremely common with brain injuries or any neurological condition, actually. And, Alzheimer’s they said can be— can be uh— uh— what does that— Constipation is so common with— with Alzheimer’s. It’s one of the— like— biggest telltale science of— of neurodegeneration.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Great. Great information.
Cavin Balaster: Awesome. Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Is there anything else you wanted to mention? I didn’t hear you mentioned like too many like antioxidant compounds. Uh—
Cavin Balaster: Hm—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: What’s your take on those, like Curcumin, or Resveratrol, or the Green Tea Extracts? What’s your take?
Cavin Balaster: I’m a huge fan of them. Uhm— In— In stages when you need them. Uh— I— I prefer to get my antioxidants from diet at this point from my food uhm— by eating— you know— produce and antioxidant-rich foods.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Of course.
Cavin Balaster: Uhm— But of course, yeah. Uh— Resveratrol is great…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: What moved the needle for you? ‘Cause I get there’s a lot of theoretical things. Which things did you incorporate into your protocol that helped or that you saw maybe a palpable improvement on?
Cavin Balaster: Uhm— Well, I— I— Uh— At what point are you talking about?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I would just say over the— you can just be very broad in it. You know, early on this helped but what long-term this has been better.
Cavin Balaster: Alright. Uhm— Let’s see. I mean, overall, healing my gut was fantastic.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Of course.
Cavin Balaster: And then, moving towards Ketogenic and moving towards a healthy uhm— version of a Paleo diet, because Paleo is a great template for me. But I wanted to go further, because as we talked about there’s a lot of Paleo junk food. So, narrowing in on— on the nutrients and really writing the book uhm— really gave me an— a really clear idea. I— It helped me to solidify exactly what I was doing to optimize my brain function. And, you know, the book really— really just is— it is the resource that I wish I had— you know— as I was going through dietarily to figure out what I could do to feed my brain optimally. So— So, it’s— It’s hard to say like one or two things to the book. [laughs] Check it out.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Awesome, man. feedyourbrain.com?
Cavin Balaster: Yup, feedabrain, first letter of the alphabet.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh— feedabrain.com, and then, we have your uhm— podcast, Adventures in Brain Injury. We’ll put the links below, everyone. Cavin, is there anything else you wanted to add before we wrap up here?
Cavin Balaster: Man, uh— You talked about my interview with Dr. Kharrazian, so that was for the Feed the Brain Interview Series, which was a dream come true for me. I get to interview the— the— like top brain nutrition experts of our time. Sorry. Some of the top brain nutrition experts…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.
Cavin Balaster: …of our time.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.
Cavin Balaster: I don’t want to offend anybody.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Nah, no.
Cavin Balaster: [laughs]
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s great. It’s just great information out there. Anyone listening, that— that’s dealt with any of these type of issues and wants to— to walk with someone through their journey and— and Cavin’s could be a great fit for you, so reach out to him. Cavin, amazing having you man. Are you gonna be at PaleoFX this month?
Cavin Balaster: Yeah. You know it, man. I’ll be there. I’ll see you.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Alright, man. Hey, I’ll look you up. It was phenomenal chatting with you. You have an awesome night and uh— have a safe trip back to Austin, too.
Cavin Balaster: Awesome. Thanks so much.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Take care, man.
References:
David O. Okwonko, MD, PhD | Neurosurgery | University of Pittsburgh
Dr. Terry Wahls
www.feedabrain.com, www.feedabrain.com/consult, www.feedabrain/bloodsugar
adventuresinbraininjury.com, adventuresinbraininjury.com/consult, adventuresinbraininjury.com/podcasts/
Paleo Function, Mycotoxins, and Ketogenic Diet with Michelle Norris – Podcast #179
Today’s podcast features Michelle Norris, Keith Norris’ better half. In this video, she and Dr. Justin Marchegiani, talk about Paleo functions, Ketogenic diet, Mycotoxins, and how such things are related to sleep, blood sugar levels, weight loss, calories, nutrient density
Stay tuned for some important scoops regarding this year’s PaleoFX and other important must-see Health Conferences. Keep watching to know more!
Dr. Justin Marchegiani
In this episode, we cover:
03:11 PaleoFX Encompasses Everything
28:40 Sleep’s Role in Weight Loss
32:34 Michelle’s Keto to Paleo Template Application
39:39 The Myth about Calories and Nutrient Density
45:27 The Body’s Need for Salt-Sugar Combo
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey, guys! It’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani here in the house. I have MIchelle Norris, Keith Norris’ better half. We had Keith on the podcast last month. So, we’re really excited to get the better half going. How are you doing, Michelle? How’s your day going?
Michelle Norris: I’m doing great. I’m doing
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Awesome! Well, I know we have the PaleoFX Conference coming back— or coming next month, in April here over in Austin, Texas. Probably one of the highlights of the year. And then, you guys are also doing a little shindig tomorrow at South by Southwest as well. So, let’s chat a little bit about that.
Michelle Norris: Uhm— Yes! So, Keith and I will be speaking at South by Southwest. We have uh— a booth at the Health and Wellness Expo. What’s—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay.
Michelle Norris: …cool is, of course, it’s at Palmer so it’s like home for us. [laughs]
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes. [crosstalk] Yes.
Michelle Norris: That’s kind of almost like a little bit of uh— uh— you know— little heart when we walked in today. I’m sure, when start fully moving into our booth today ‘cause it’s like, “Oh, crap. Our event’s like a little over a month away.” So, uhm— yeah. We’re excited. Uhm— We’re excited that South Y is finally doing a Health and Wellness Expo. We kind of feel like they should have probably done this a long time ago. But— you know uh— better late than never, so we’re excited to be speaking tomorrow. So, our talk is gonna be on “Welcome to the Human Zoo” and uh— we’re excited about it. So—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s great.
Michelle Norris: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Are you gonna be on the— Are you gonna be on one of the— the— the— the big uh— keynote stages?
Michelle Norris: Yes. We’re gonna be on the Wellness stage. So, uhm— I— the— uh— You can come out to the Health and Wellness Expo. It’s free so…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh!
Michelle Norris: …you can
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Cool!
Michelle Norris: And, uhm— yeah. And then, our booth, we’re gonna have some— a bunch of giveaways. We have uhm— guiltless uhm— Goodies is gonna be there giving away uhm— their amazing doughnuts. And then we also— We’ll have Chameleon Cold Brew uhm— passing out
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s awesome. Yeah. I want to really hit everyone else’s listening here and really wants to connect with more like— like-minded people, people that are kind of connected to this community, they— they get nutrition. They get the life— lifestyle stuff. They want to get to people that are in alignment with this type of functional medicine ancestral health kind of thinking. This is a great event to attend. PaleoFX, as well as the— the health event tomorrow at South Y, I think they’re great if you want to meet and connect with more people. So, we’re gonna put links down below so anyone listening to the YouTube video or the podcast. If you want to get connected and— and be a part of it, click the link below and you can sign up. Uh— Phenomenal event. I’ve been there five years in a row and it’s the highlight of my year. So, absolutely love it. Now, in past, we’ve had people like myself, Chris Kresser, Mark Sisson uhm— Cr— uhm— Is it Josh Axe last year, Dr. Perlmutter— so, lots of people that are bringing lots of awesome information. I’m just curious. Since you’ve been doing this what— eight years now? Is it eight?
Michelle Norris: It’s our seventh year.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Seventh year, wow. So, what’s some of the information, maybe your top three things that have really resonated with you as an— you know— as an individual? What are things that you’ve learned that have made a
Michelle Norris: Oh, my gosh! [sigh] Man, that list…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I know it’s a big question. I know.
Michelle Norris: …long. Uhm— So many things. Uhm— Probably one of the things that we are most proud of at bringing to PaleoFX is that it’s not just nutrition. It’s not just about the diet. It’s not just about fitness. It’s not. It encompasses everything. So, it ain’t about uhm— coming— you know— happiness, mindfulness, uhm—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm—
Michelle Norris: It’s about how— you know— entrepreneurship, uhm— sustainability. You name it. We kind of run the gamut. Spirituality, uhm— We do a lot with plant medicines, and which, by the way— This is just for you. A total scoop, because it’s not been announced yet. But…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Whoah!
Michelle Norris: Dennis McKenna will be at Hill FX this year, and we’re super excited about this. Uhm— a lot of people know who Dennis is. He— His brother Terrence is a big activist in the movement for Psychedelics and for—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes! I’ve heard of him.
Michelle Norris: Yeah. And Dennis is going to be— And Dennis is uh— a big activist in his own right. He’ll be there. So, I think a lot of the things that I’ve learned is like things like that. The— The— Your— Your health and wellness is incumbent on a lot of different things. It’s— It’s incumbent on you
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.
Michelle Norris: …that are on our bodies when we put chemicals on our bodies,
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm—
Michelle Norris: We aren’t cognizant of what’s in our makeup. And so, there’s this, then there’s also— you know— soaps and— you know— med— cleaning supplies in the house. Uhm— And then, there’s toxic thoughts and toxic people. And so, those are— That’s probably one of the biggest things that I’ve really learned over the last— you know— seven years, is how it’s about— you know— when you go back to a more simple life and you— you really got the things out that are not serving you or uhm— helping you become a better person or become healthier. So—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I love that.
Michelle Norris: That’s probably one of the biggest things that I’ve learned. And then— Oh, gosh! You know— All kinds of biohacking tricks, [laugh] and— and uh— uhm— uh— I mean, that’s probably one of the things, is really understanding how much you can actually uhm— Not just advocate for yourself but also be your own uhm— you know— be your own guinea pig.N equals one— I mean like go into the experimentation phase and with uhm— just being excited and being uhm— curious. And so uhm— that’s probably— Another one is realizing that how much effect I can have on my own health, my weight, my— all of those things if I am— you know— if I’m using cool little biohacks to— you know— tap in and do those kind of things. So, learned a lot over particularly the last two and a half years. And then, the third thing, [long pause] I think one of the— the— the big things, too, is understanding how much we are uh— a tribe. Like we need— we need people. We need to have— we need to have people around us that help us uhm— you know— it’s that rising tide raises all ships.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Michelle Norris: And I think when you get into a community in a tribe situation, particularly at halo effects. I— It’s— There’s not anything that’s like that. And so, uhm— I think that’s probably one of the other cool things that I’ve learned uhm— from— from being part of PaleoFX.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s great. Yeah.
Michelle Norris: Oh, yeah. I completely agree with that. Uhm— I— My— my uhm— attitude going into any conference because— you know— we attend other conferences and everything, is to uhm— gleam three takeaways, uhm— and then, really work individually on those takeaways in integration. Because this is the thing. We go to conferences, and yeah, that vibe and that energy and that excitement is there and were all inspired and we’re gonna change our life. And we’re gonna do this. We’re gonna do that. And you’re right. You leave and you have so many things.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Michelle Norris: Oh, that’s awesome. But it’s really— you know— Narrow it down to the top three and really work on integrating those things. The thing is that it doesn’t mean don’t write down the other things.Write them all down, but really go—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm—
Michelle Norris: —mindful about choosing three things that you’re gonna take that— that really were the top three things that resonated with you, and work on those. And then— then move on when you got those integrated. But, I totally agree. It— It is. It’s like drinking from a firehose and if you— if you just leave and you’re in this really big bubble of being so inspired and so motivated and everything, and you leave and you feel like, “Okay. I don’t even know where to start.” That’s where you start— those three things.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love that. Really good. And, I want to get your story ‘cause I know right now you had a couple health challenges in the last year, too, that I want to chat about ‘cause I think a lot of people can empathize with that and learn from it. But, you came into this world as being a chef, right? You were a chef, and then you plugged into this community. Is that how you started?
Michelle Norris: Yes. [crosstalk] So, yes. Who’s— uhm— My specialty as a chef was Italian.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, awesome.
Michelle Norris: [laugh] I made my own…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: [laugh]
Michelle Norris: …dough in my own pasta. And uhm— you know— I didn’t come into Paleo uhm— you know— happy and curious and excited and adventurous. I came into it kicking and screaming. And so, uhm— it wa— I was pissed. I was really pissed.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: [laugh]
Michelle Norris: It was like, “Okay. I have to give up these foods that I absolutely love just so I can be healthy, and I was kind of in a state of die— denial and I went through this process of thinking to myself,
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.
Michelle Norris: I’m really kin— of that.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: [laugh]
Michelle Norris: But anyway, uhm— So, what’s funny is when I went Paleo, I didn’t change that. I kept writing and developing these recipes, and uhm— And it was— It took me a little while. What happened is, literally, in three weeks of being Paleo, everything that I have wrong with me had stopped. The inflammation had just died. And so, I didn’t have all that inflammation happening. So, I had Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. I have Fibromyalgia. I have been diagnosed with Early Onset Rheumatoid Arthritis. I had uhm— IDS. UHm— My— I had just all kinds of cra— And of course, I’ve had migraines since I was 17. And so, uhm— in three weeks, almost everything was gone. The migraines were not gone uhm— because I was still taking medications. And—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm—
Michelle Norris: —tions ended up being—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Imitrex or something like that?
Michelle Norris: Yeah. I was taking uhm— Actually, I was taking Relpax and I was getting Botox injections…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, wow.
Michelle Norris: …[inaudible] and I was taking three different medications. So, I would take— One medication was to a daily, that was to keep them from coming, which was Topamax, which is an anti—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm—
Michelle Norris: —alation. And then a muscle relaxer which is Cyclobenzaprine or Flexeril— It’s a muscle relaxer. So, it’s taking those two for prevent— And then, I was given Midrins. So if a headache started coming on, I would take Midrin to try to get rid of it. And then, if a cold-blood migraine happened, I would take re— Relpax, or I would take uhm— Axert. Okay. So, there’s the whole cocktail there.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow!
Michelle Norris: You can’t take Relpax and Axert together. You have to be separated by at least 72 to— to— hours or more…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm—
Michelle Norris: … because of Serotonin uhm— Syndrome.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep.
Michelle Norris: And so, uhm— Anyway, it just— What was happening now was I was just rebounding. All my headaches were rebounding. What have you— So I uhm— I go into Paleo, and about three weeks, everything was gone. All the inflammation uhm— Everytime I ate, I was literally, physically ill. I would— My stomach would cramp. I would just be really in bad pain. My knee was swollen all the time. My back hurts uhm— just all of these stuff. What was interesting um— I actually— Let me back that up for a second. My back— I didn’t realize my back hurt.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm—
Michelle Norris: —want to be so normal, but I was numb to it. But when it stopped hurting is when I noticed, and I was like, “Oh. Crap. I had a back pain and I don’t have that anymore. It was so strange. And so— Anyway, about six weeks in the Paleo, our son played baseball and we had not seen the t— We hadn’t seen any of the parents of the team for probably 12 weeks. But, I had been paying them about six weeks. We showed up at the game, and all parents were like, “Oh my God! You look amazing! You’ve lost so much weight. You— Your— You look so healthy. Your skin’s glowing. Your hair looks great.” They were just like going on and on and on. And they were like, “What are you doing?” And, of course, Keith claimed that I had this amazing trainer.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhuh—
Michelle Norris: And which wasn’t true. I wasn’t even training, which was kind of funny. Uhm— But what was weird is— you know— when you’re on a SAD diet. Women
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Michelle Norris: Scroll up and down, so you can have any range of sizes in your closet and it’s a normal thing. So, you don’t even notice when you’re losing weight or when you’re doing— So you’re just going back into— This is just the normal thing you do. You just do this yo-yo thing. Well, what was interesting is that was like the day the light bulb went off. And I was like— They were like, “So what are you doing then?” I was like, “I was just doing Paleo.” And uhm— It was really interesting. That was when I really realized, “Oh my God! This is— This information can help people, like this could be a— This could be so helpful to people.” Uhm— Robb had not yet had written his book yet.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Robb Wolf.
Michelle Norris: He hadn’t written the book yet, but he was—That’s how we ever found out about Paleo was through Robb. And we uhm— Keith had developed a relationship with him and Art DeVany, and they we’re telling him about this. So, he tried it, and he was Paleo for a year before I tried it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And this was back in 2010?
Michelle Norris: No. This is back in 2005.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Whoah!
Michelle Norris: Yeah, 2005. 2000— He went Paleo in 2004. I went Paleo in 2005. And so— [clears throat] Yeah. It was— It’s been a long time. And so— What’s interesting is uhm— we [laugh] We uhm— I don’t know. When— When that happened that’s when I stopped writing for the other blogs and I did my own website. And so— uhm— Yeah. Like I said, I came into this kicking and screaming and completely in denial. But, uhm— Keith says the day that I figured that out when we went to that game was the day a Paleo Evangelist was born. [laugh]
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s great. And for anyone listening to this, and— you know— when you hear the word Paleo, what we’re trying to talk about is kind of ancestral way of eating, typically, cutting out inflammatory foods, cutting out foods that are high in toxins and try to really increase nutrient density, so, typically, healthy meats, lots of good veggies— you know— the— the— the right amount of fruits and starch and carbs for you and— You know— I— I tend to use the term Paleo template because we can really adjust in the macronutrients. We can go more Ketogenic. We can be more of a zone. So we have that flexibility within that Paleo template. Does that makes sense to you too? Does that makes sense to you too? We on the same page with that?
Michelle Norris: Oh, yeah. Absolutely. I totally agree with that because uh—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm—
Michelle Norris: There’s—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm—
Michelle Norris: And then [inaudible] and you figure out and you do these little hacks for what works for you. So, I can tell you Keith and I cannot eat all the same stuff.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.
Michelle Norris: I can’t eat the
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm—
Michelle Norris: But— you know— with regard to fries or potatoes, or— you know— any of that kind of stuff, there are things I can eat that he can’t so, he’s— has issues with night shades. I don’t love tomatoes, love all that kind of stuff.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Michelle Norris: And I tend and I don’t have any issue with it so uhm— So, there are things like the— you know— we have to tweak for ourselves, even in the same household that even when we start from the same template— you know— there are times where we don’t have the same meals. Uhm—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, being an Italian chef, how did you— how did you come in there? What
Michelle Norris: Okay. So, initially, uh— my subs were rice noodles.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Michelle Norris: Yeah. Until I figured it out that I had a problem with rice. Uhm— Rice noodles and Zucchini noodles. I actually prefer the Zucchini noodles to
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Michelle Norris: It holds your sauce really well, uhm— and the thing is that it’s just so much more nutrient dense, and I think it tastes better, which—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s great.
Michelle Norris: And of course— you know— you don’t get any of the food
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. You’ll get that blood sugar dip. Yeah. I did— I did Miracle— I mean, I did uhm— Zucchini noodles this week. Have you tried Miracle noodles before?
Michelle Norris: Yes, I have. Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: What’s your take on those?
Michelle Norris: Uhm— They act— they’re good. I just— uhm— I just prefer the zoodles. I—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Michelle Norris: I’m just one of those that’s Bang for Your Buck. You know— If it’s a little bit more nutrient dense, that’s the way I want to go. So—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I agree. The nutrient density is by far better. That’s great.
Michelle Norris: Yeah. And then, what her thing is to is uh— my— my— My thought process around that
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm—
Michelle Norris: And I— I have to be really mindful of that, especially right now after the health stuff that I’ve been through. So, yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And let’s talk about that. I know you had a beautiful Central— a beautiful house in Central Austin. You found out there were some mold there in the last few years. So, what’s kind of been that journey? What were the big symptoms that you were noticing? Did you do any testing or was it just like, “Oh my gosh! There’s some mold. That explains it.” And then you got out of there and then you just felt better. How did you know? And then, were there any testing involved for you?
Michelle Norris: Yeah. Okay. So, uhm— We moved into that house in May 2000— uhm— 15.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm—
Michelle Norris: Yeah. Yeah. May of 2015. Uhm— We were— Our— We own a house in Kyle and we rested that house out, then we moved into the house in Austin ‘cause we were just in Austin
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.
Michelle Norris: —hours. It was crazy. So, we uhm— moved into this house, and we moved in on May the 8th. And that was literally, uhm— So, three weeks before that, we were at a conference. Then, we were— The following weekend, we were at PaleoFX. Then, the following weekend, we were at a conference up in New York, and then, we came back home that weekend before we moved. And moved on the— that Thursday. So, you can imagine that I’m thinking right now I’m really seriously exhausted ‘cause I’ve gone through PaleoFX. Got out through all these stuff. So, uhm— we get into the house. Then, about ten days after we moved in, we went on a ten-day cruise. Then, we came home so that puts us towards the end of May. BY June the 10th, I couldn’t get out of bed.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh my gosh!
Michelle Norris: I was like, “What is happening to me?” And I just saw it that I was exhausted from all of that. That’s what I initially thought. But then, things just started not adding up. I just was like,”Okay.” I was sleeping. I was sleeping a lot.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm—
Michelle Norris: And I was just like, “Okay. I should be getting better. I should be feeling a lot better.” I wasn’t so I started really just doing some research, and immediately came to the idea that the— there is mold. Well, when— So we— We had a uhm— landlord. So we went to him. He uhm— said, “Absolutely not. There was no mold in the house.” But I was like— It’s I don’t know what this is. This is crazy. And let me go back just a little bit.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Michelle Norris: And Mark— I went to— I went in and had all my blood work done. And they had confirmed that I had— was in meno— menopause.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm—
Michelle Norris: And uhm— They said, uhm— whatever you’re doing now— I was doing ID nutrition and I was also doing uhm— Paleo. They were like,”Whatever you’re doing, keep doing it, because your— your uhm— looks great. Your hormones looked really good. We don’t need to give you any hormones.” Uhm— Anyway, Sorry. I have dogs here. I apologize.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s all good.
Michelle Norris: So, they were like, you don’t need any hormones. So, June 10th, I can’t get up bed. I start doing all these research. And then I thought, “Oh. Crap!” Maybe— maybe it’s my hormones. So, I go in. I have this literally zero hormones. None. So, they put me on hormones. I start getting a little bit better but not quite that good. And so, uhm— I’m just like trying to figure out what’s going one. And then, October 15th through November [dog barking] 8th, I gained 28 pounds.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Whoah!
Michelle Norris: In less than one month, I gained 28 pounds. And so, uhm— I was like, “Okay. What’s going on?” Well, a friend of ours who happens to be a hormone specialist was in town. We were talking to her. I was asking her about it. She says, uhm— “What kind of hormones are you taking?” And I told her I was taking a combined Estrogen and Testosterone cream, and a…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh—
Michelle Norris: …progesterone pill. And she said, “You—” She was— I— “Just from what you’re telling me…” She goes I’m betting that you’re one of that small minority of women that cannot take [inaudible] This is new uhm— uh— uhm— uh— evidence that’s coming out that start— just starting to uhm— come out that you’re one of those minute uhm— women that— I mean, minute number of women that cannot have their Estrogen and their Testosterone together. They need to be separated by 12 hours.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm—
Michelle Norris: I was like, “Okay. Well then.” That was a battle with my doctor.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: To get it separated.
Michelle Norris: Yeah. And then, finally, I was just like, “Look. I’m not— I’m not gonna keep doing it so you need to— I— And I need the hormones soon.” They’re gonna have to do it my way. And so— Finally, he gave in. Well, I dropped all the weight like pretty quickly. But, what I realized later was I was literally spending
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mmm—
Michelle Norris: Like literally, if I had to work, I had to pull my computer into bed. It was that bad. And so, when I started, uhm— I started working at the office, I was at the office from like 8:00 in the morning until 11:30 at night. So— I was spending almost all day out of the house and only a few hours in the house so I believe that’s why I was able to drop the weight. And so, uhm— I dropped the— I think it really didn’t have a lot to do with the— It may had something to do with the hormones being together, but I think ultimately. Plus, I was out of the house. And uhm— So I would— did it really pretty good. I was okay. But then, again, after pill effects was over and I went back to being in the house again, it all came right back and I g— I went back and gained another 27 pounds.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow.
Michelle Norris: And, you know, being Paleo, I had only
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Do you remember what labs it is for the mycotoxins? Was that the real-time labs one?
Michelle Norris: Honestly, I don’t.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay.
Michelle Norris: I just know that it was a battle to get my doctor to do it. And— But I just kept telling them, “Look I just feel like I have a mold exposure. Can you please do the test. I ended up also doing the nose. The— The uhm— MARCoNS Test in—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.
Michelle Norris: Anyway. Did the MARCoNS and uhm— that was off the charts, and so— Anyway, new really pretty quickly, “Okay. I’ve got a mold exposure.” So we got Airocides in our house because we were leased.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Michelle Norris: We couldn’t leave. And so, we were trying to figure out what we’re gonna do. And uhm— It’s just— what was interesting is I started a protocol with Ryan Preisinger.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm—
Michelle Norris: I don’t know. And you got to meet Ryan. And so, Ryan started me on this protocol. I went— had all the Mercury removed from my mouth, did
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm—
Michelle Norris: …after that— that on like 21 days later and had no heavy metals in my body, which was awesome. ‘Cause normally that’s a long process that doesn’t have…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Michelle Norris: [crosstalk] —cally, usually. But because I was able to remove the heavy metals. The other thing that was interesting too is, at that time, I also stopped taking all of my migraine medications, and it was a painful
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.
Michelle Norris: …super painful
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: [laughs]
Michelle Norris: Uhm— This is Tosca. She likes to be seen. For some reasons she jumps up almost every
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It— It is my dog right here. Here name’s Butter.
Michelle Norris: Oh! It’s Butter. This is Tosca.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Butter.Nice. Very cute.
Michelle Norris: She eats butter every morning. That’s my— He has butter— He has a— She’s got a— and uhm— some type of autoimmune thing that we can’t get rid of, and so she’s on the medication. She eats butter every morning.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh. That’s good. And uh— You feeding him like uh— a Paleo kind of uhm— dog food too?
Michelle Norris: Oh, yeah. Yeah. All of the dogs are Paleo.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Raw?
Michelle Norris: Only Paleo. Yeah. Uhm— But anyway, I uhm— So, what was interesting is after uhm— Tsp— Going through that process, I started doing the essential oils and started using uh— ice packs more. I use ice packs before, but I started really using ice packs. An ice pack around the shoulders and an ice pack around the forehead. Uhm— And I started realizing that I wasn’t getting the headaches as much after a couple of weeks. It was a process of getting that— all of that out of my system. But, I was like, “Oh my God! I was finally like clear and not having—” Hey I woke up with a headache almost every single morning. Like—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That makes sense too, because I— I worked with lots of menopausal females and the big issue is as you start transitioning in the menopause, you start leaning on your adrenal glands more to help pick up the hormonal slack. Because the ovaries now aren’t coming to the table with the hormones that used to be there when your cycling. So, the problem is your adrenals are also your strength-handling glands. So now, you’re— now you’re beating them up with stress and then now you’re also looking for them to come and produce extra hormones so you can feel good and— and feel balanced and recover from all these different stressors. So then, now you get this back up generator essentially that you’ve— you’ve run dry. And then now the power’s out. Now you need it to kind of get the hormones going. So, that makes sense. And then of course, you plug in these extra stressor of the mold and then all these conferences back to back to back. That totally makes sense.
Michelle Norris: Yeah. So we— I don’t know. So, it’s been really long so we figured out that what happened is that my uhm— the— the Severe Mold Exposure, not only was at the wrong time because I was in
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, God.
Michelle Norris: So, then I started a protocol for getting rid of the Epstein-Barr on the last bit of that protocol right now. But the other part of this too is that [clears throat] as part of the Keto diet. And uhm— I started the Keto diet, uhm— in December— I think it— Yeah, December. And so far, I’ve been able to lose 15 of the 27 pounds so, I still have 12 to go. But I feel a lot better. And what’s been interesting is it’s been kind of like a game I’m figuring out on the Keto diet. When— What is it that really taps in and works for me on the weight loss? With Keto is I finally figure it out is— I have to do really, really low carbs, uh— a lot more fat, and a moderate amount of protein…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: UHmhm—
Michelle Norris: …and uhm— a lot of sleep.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mmm—
Michelle Norris: I mean, that’s the number one pain women go to— sleep. If you want to lose weight, go to sleep ‘cause I noticed that when my sleep is better and I use sleep app and everything, uhm— and I have uh— I’ve got a bit of leaf— uh— a leaf that tracks my sleep…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Michelle Norris: …need to get the aura ring. And uhm— So, I’m just gonna tell you. You want to lose weight, go to sleep. I mean, that’s the best thing. I mean, what I do is every five days, I cycle carbs in and I have to keep my fat low that day and then I cycle some carbs in on that day like sweet potatoes, or if that’s what I want to do. Some chocolate treats, or something like that. That’s when I’ll do it. Or some kind of— maybe I want Torquittas or whatever, but I have to really watch that. And uhm— anyway— And then, I will like lose weight especially if I go— go to sleep. The other thing is too is that I sauna every— almost every single night. I do it—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, cool.
Michelle Norris: So, uhm—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Do you sauna in your house? What kind do you have?
Michelle Norris: I have a Sunlight—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, cool.
Michelle Norris: So— I’d had the Su— this other sauna thing that—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: _______[29:38]
Michelle Norris: Uh— No. Uhm— I wish. I wish I would have that but uh— no. I had this other one that I got off the Amazon or whatever, but I was like desperate to get something…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Michelle Norris: …and— Anyway, and it way helpful in helping get rid of toxins, but it was— it’s not the same as the infrared. And there’s— I can— There’s uh— a marked difference in the infrared versus the hot— the heat sauna.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.
Michelle Norris: Uh— hot sauna. Uhm— Marked difference, uhm— for one thing, in my sleep and uhm— just in my skin too. And just knowing that I’m getting rid of toxins, I don’t have [inaudible] those—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s interesting that you talked about the sleep because there’s a lot of research showing that if you cut down your sleep, it actually can make you pretty diabetic, meaning it’s really increasing your blood sugar levels. So, a lot of people, especially in like the Paleo Natural Health community, they’re like, “Oh! Let’s cut our carbs. Let’s increase our fat. Let’s— Let’s lower our blood sugar via our diet and maybe exercise too. But people forget that you can throw your blood sugar off with poor sleep. So, that makes sense. Maybe why that sleep is making a huge difference. Also, it’s— you know— repairing your body, and all that too, with all those good anabolic hormones as well.
Michelle Norris: Oh, yeah. And I can’t agree with you more. So, I test my ketones.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Michelle Norris: I test my blood sugar in every uh— not every morning but pretty uh— every couple of days. And last night, I uhm— for some reason did not sleep well. Uhm— uh— I think we just got a lot going on and I— my brain could not shut down no matter what I seem to do, and I don’t meditate before I go to sleep. And uhm— it was interesting. Uhm— last night I s— I ended up only sleeping about four and a half hours and I woke up, my blood sugar was 102.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mmm—
Michelle Norris: And I’m
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow!
Michelle Norris: Uhm— And my—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: How are you testing your ketones? Are you doing the— the new keto-mojo. Are you doing the Abbott Precision Xtra one?
Michelle Norris: I’m doing the Precision Xtra.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup. That’s what I have too. I got mine right here. I test a couple of times [crosstalk] a day.
Michelle Norris: Yeah. Mine’s [crosstalk] right— right there. Anyway—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s cool.
Michelle Norris: Yeah. So, I do that, and I will test my— my ketones and then my blood sugar. And that was— The other thing is, it knocked me out of Ketosis.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Michelle Norris: I went— this weird— I was like, “Wait. How? Okay.” And then— Then, I realized, “Okay. It has to do with— It had to do with my sleep.”
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm—
Michelle Norris: So, when I sleep good, I wake up, my blood sugar’s pretty— pretty even around 82 to 85. And uhm— And my— I usually have— My ketones are at a 0.4 to 0.5, around there. And uh— I don’t know. So, yeah. Sleep— Sleep is the big one, ladies. Then—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. [crosstalk] And I’m just curious, how are you applying your Keto to Paleo template. I know you kind of cycle up and down. What does that look like for the listeners? What’s a breakfast, lunch and dinner? And then, had you applied any intermittent fasting? And then, what’s your frequency for cycling those carbs in?
Michelle Norris: Yes. So, I do
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm—
Michelle Norris: Just go uhm— Right now, I’m in fast. Uhm— I do uh— most of the time in the morning, if I’m gonna do anything, I will uhm— I’ll do a uh— a— like a uhm— tsp— Sorry. I ha a dog. Come up and—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: [laugh]
Michelle Norris: And we have four, so I apologize, [crosstalk] the barking and stuff. But uhm— So, I’ll do like a bulletproof type uhm— Chai.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Michelle Norris: I don’t do uhm— I’m not— I don’t do coffee.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm—
Michelle Norris: I’ve decaffeinated for years, but I love decaffeinated coffee. But I find that I have to have cream with my coffee, and that’s just too many carbs for me. So, I do some— a little bit of butter and some MCT oil and some—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Good.
Michelle Norris: …some Chai and I actually really like that. And uhm— So, I— That’s usually what I do in the mornings if I’m gonna do anything. Uhm— I will usually have for lunch— I start eating right around 12:30-1:00 o’clock somewhere around there. And uhm— And I will have maybe a couple of eggs, a couple of slices of bacon and an avocado. And then, in the evening, I uhm— I have to finish eating by 6:30 uhm— and I, generally, will have some kind of uhm— complex carb like — you know— I’ll have cauliflower, broccoli or I’ll have some Kale or uhm— uh— little salad in about four or five ounces of protein. And that’s— that’s it. And then, if I want some— If I need a little extra fat, I have these little fat bombs that have no carb— no carbs in them. So, it’s uh— just kicked out butter. [dog barks] And uhm— Sorry. I’ll— Uh— So, a little bit of Cacao butter and a little bit of uh— _____[34:45]
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh! That’s great.
Michelle Norris: Anyway, and I’m gonna hurt some dogs. I’m sorry, doll.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: [laugh] It’s okay. No worries. No biggie.
Michelle Norris: They’re getting all excited about something. Don’t want to get Butter stirred up.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I know, right? Yeah. She’s okay. I got— I got one little earpiece here [crosstalk] so she’s good.
Michelle Norris: So, she can’t hear it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: She can’t hear. But, that’s great. So, in general, that’s good on the diet stuff. So, it sounds like your macros— your— Sounds like you’re sitting maybe around a 15 percent protein, 60 or 70 percent fat, and maybe a 10 percent carbish? Is that all right?
Michelle Norris: Yeah. [crosstalk] Yeah. So, it’s supposed to be less than 25 uhm—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Protein?
Michelle Norris:
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.
Michelle Norris: Right just under a hundred
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay.
Michelle Norris: I hit fat every time, but I can’t hit that protein and I found that actually works for me. I’m fine. I feel good and I feel I’m starting to get my energy back, and feeling— and I’m losing weight. And uhm— [pause] Yeah. I just. I found that this is— I’ve pretty much got it dialed in now. What I need—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s good. A— And you feel like even though you’re doing the 6-hour window IF, you’re okay with doing the— the fat and you’re Chai tea in the morning. So, like, you wouldn’t count that as part of your feeding window in the morning when you have that.
Michelle Norris: No. No. When I do have it, uhm— like I’m having it today, and it actually I just started uhm— drinking it at about uhm— 11:15? Right— right after you and I got, I have made it and then set it down…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it.
Michelle Norris: …tape. So, 11:15. So, then, I’ll pull my window down a little bit and eat— uh— make sure I’m done eating probably like by 6:00. So, my feeding window’s supposed to be six to six and a half hours. Originally, uhm— Ryan wanted it— wanted me to be in a 9-hour and then to shift to the 6½ hours over the— sorry— six months. But I found I was automatically doing it, like I was where I was at. Uh— So, I was like, “Okay. I don’t have to worry about it. I’m just gonna stay there. So—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And you noticed the big difference going from like six to like eight, like was there a big shift for you? Or—
Michelle Norris: Uhm— No, ‘cause I just automatically just did it. I d—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It all fit to the six.
Michelle Norris: —just wor— It worked out that way, and what’s interesting is uhm— I didn’t uh— I didn’t know how that was gonna effect. But I realized that I feel more even keel when I don’t— when I don’t have a bigger window to eat it and that I’m not eating more. ‘Cause in— you know— you didn’t matter what you’re eating. You’re gonna— You’re gonna have an Insulin response. And so— uhm— keeping from having multiple Insulin response. I tried to only have my Insulin response happen a couple of times a day at the most. So, I try not to— if— If I’m gonna eat everything I’m gonna eat in that short period of time so that I get the one Insulin response and that’s it. And then, another Insulin response and that’s it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, the biggest thing I see a lot of people make, and I’m curious to get your take on it to see if you’re doing it or not, is if you shorten this window— let’s say, this is your six-hour eating window, is you have to make sure you get all your calories and nutrients in this window. So, let’s say, you need 2,000 calories for a round number, but because that feeding window is compressed, maybe you’re only getting 1,500 so you have a 500 calorie-nutrient deficit, so to speak. So, I’m just curious, are you getting enough of calories in that window for you, too?
Michelle Norris: I— [laugh] I’m— I’m actually hitting over the calories that I’m really allotted. Uhm—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: How many do you need? Let— Maybe 1,600? 1,800?
Michelle Norris: Thirteen. Thir—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay. So your— [crosstalk] thirteen.
Michelle Norris: That’s like uh— where my— right now, where my BMI is and where my— well, actually, I know what my— It’s— I have a DEXA. SO, uhm— But, i— where I’m at, it needs to be thirteen hun— It’s 1,308. It’s actually what my calories intake is supposed to be a day. And, I can tell you, I hit it easy. I—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: ANd with that amount, you feel satiated, too. You’re not— You don’t still [crosstalk] feel hungry again.
Michelle Norris: I’ll never feel hungry. I feel— I— I feel good. I don’t feel uhm— And
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Michelle Norris: …while having—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, we know.
Michelle Norris: Right? Do it right with my dinner so that I only still have that one Insulin response
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool.
Michelle Norris: …into me. You know there’s been all of the— the information out there. “Oh. You should have six meals a day.” “Oh. You got your Insulin response thing…”
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Michelle Norris: “…all— all day long.” I mean, like, you’re never gonna lose weight doing that. You’re also putting a big stress on. I mean, that’s one of the things that, I think a lot of people don’t understand is when you are spiking an Insulin response, you’re putting stress on your body. And the thing is, is that yes, in some cases, it’s a good stress, but when you’re doing it that often where you’re eating six small meals a day, you’re getting a lot more work out of your— you know— You’re making your pancreas work a whole lot more than it should be.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, absolutely. I’m getting a lot of questions
Michelle Norris: Yeah. I totally agree. So— you know—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hmm—
Michelle Norris: …or any other things. Uh— Why do all of those, say, have -tos at the end of them? I— I—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I know. That’s weird. [laugh]
Michelle Norris: But it’s— This is the thing. Those are super high— uhm— high fat, high sugar, high uhm— carbohydrate— all of those things, but the calories d— are hav— there’s no— there’s nothing in it that’s nutrient-dense whatsoever.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And Keith— I do know Keith has talked to me about this last time, where they were putting some chemical in the Dorito, and then that was causing you to crave more sugar
Michelle Norris: Yes.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I forget what he was. Go ahead. What was that?
Michelle Norris: That’s actually part of our talk tomorrow, is atomic Doritos. So, what you do is you get a little flavor packet with your Doritos and they’re Nacho cheese Doritos, and you put the flavor packet into the bag. You shake it. Whatever. Well, the distribution is not gonna be even, more likely, unless you just like you’re gonna beat your Doritos up and they’re gonna be all particles. So—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Michelle Norris: And it happened, is that you have uhm— a little bit of atomic on— uh— on every— a little bit on— on like more pops of it, throughout the back. And what happens is that we spiked our Dopamine response when we are anticipating an event.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.
Michelle Norris: So, when we’re sitting there, eating the Doritos, this Dorito may just only have the Nacho cheese. No atomic. But, as we’re eating, we’re anticipating that we’re gonna get to that, your Dopamine is responding.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep.
Michelle Norris: And so, this is something that the food chemical people know about us. So, when we do this, we’re like— we are eating. We are spiking that Dopamine. And then, yes. We need to come back in with sugar. And, usually, it’s Coke or it’s some kind of Soda Pop, or whatever. And so, that’s usually what you’re— you’re gonna do, and, of course, they’re in bed together. So, that’s a whole another story.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.
Michelle Norris: But when— So there was uh— Rob talked about this in one of his talks an— at Ancestral Health Symposium. Uhm— There was a— I believe it was Man Versus Food, or something— some show. And uhm— The guy on the show was in an eating uh— uh— an ice cream eating contest. And it’s some big huge thing. It’s like 40 ounce of some ice cream or whatever, and he’s shovelling it down, and shovelling it down, and shovelling it down, and he’s doing really well. And then, all the sudden, he starts kind of turning to green and like he can’t do anymore, and he’s got a certain amount of time he’s got to finish this in. So, he asked them for aid— aid— uhm— order of French fries. So, he takes uh— He gets the French fries. He eats a few French fries. And then, what happens is that tampers that back down, and now, he can put more sweet in him. He was able to finish it in time to win whatever it was. It’s like some pig jumping contest or something. It’s a big huge this Sunday. And that’s— The p— This is where we’re biologically and chemically made. This is how we’re made. And so, the thing is, is that he would not have been able to finish that ice cream if he had not had the salt, if he had not had that comp— you know— that con—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: The salt kind of sugar combo there. Yeah.
Michelle Norris: Which is why all junk foods are filled with both salt and both sugar. So—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Michelle Norris: You have to have more. It’s food with no break.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Michelle Norris: It’s— uhm—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s like the Pringle commercials in the
Michelle Norris: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah! Exactly. And so— uhm— Yeah. Totally, uhm— It that— That is. Is just that Dopamine response and we’re— We are, unfortunately, uhm— and— and less remindful about how we eat. Uhm— We are actually being kind of uh— just controlled in that respect, because you can’t— you’re doing what your— your body is wanting it to do. And the problem is, is that when those things come in, and they kick up your Dopamine response and they shut down your satiety receptors, you— you’re screwed. Like, your body’s never gonna say, “Enough! I don’t need any more. I’m full.” Because, you’re gonna keep having the— the back and forth.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and your hormones and your neurotransmitters are stronger than your willpower. So, if you don’t know what’s happening, and you’re eating certain foods that are throwing your hormones and your neurotransmitters off, Dopamine, etc., and causing blood sugar swings, that’s gonna take away any willpower you have. So, the first thing you need to do is— Whoah! Just put good things in your house, and then, that’s gonna start shifting your hormones and your neurotransmitters. Then, you can start choosing the right foods. And if you start getting more fat adapted, you start getting more Ketones in your system. And Ketones are actually very satiating. They really connect the brain— the part of the brain, the Apostatic Control Satiation. It really talks to it and— and— and quells those cravings. So then, when you’re making decisions, you can make it based off of what’s best for you. Not— not feeding that beast of the— you know— Those neurotransmitters are bouncing up and down like you mentioned.
Michelle Norris: Oh, yeah. I know. I mean, it is. It’s like having a monkey on your back, and you’re constantly having a feedback monkey.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Michelle Norris: It’s— It’s like I really equate that to an addiction, like it’s the— it’s the same thing. It is exactly the same thing for somebody that’s addicted to some type of drug. We get addicted too. We need the sugar. We need the— the salt. We need the sugar. We need the salt. We are addicted to that, and so uhm— And the things is that it’s hard-wired into the way we— we were built as humans so we can’t let go against the biology. What we have to do is learn how to work with it and learn how to not become a— you know— kind of a pawn in the— the food manufacturer’s game. So—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, this information, people can be empowered. So, I love that. That’s phenomenal. And then, real quick too. I want to just kind of just back up a little bit. What did you do to help lower the mycotoxin levels? Outside of just the obvious, like— you know— You’re renting your house so you can move out, which is— which is convenient, but what were you doing on the supplement side? I know you mentioned some sauna stuff. What supplements were you doing as well?
Michelle Norris: Okay. So, I do— I do ID Nutrition, which is customized to me. And so then…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Michelle Norris: …the other thing is that I had some uhm— EBV virus protocols that— that Brian had gotten for me. Uhm— So, I was using those to try to uhm— [dog barks] help get rid of that. Uhm—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That was the Epstein-Barr Virus. And w— what was that? Were you doing Monolaurin, or Reishi or Cat’s Claw? What kind of uhm— antivirals were you doing?
Michelle Norris: Tsp— I’m gonna tell you uhm— It’s called— It’s Epstein-Barr Protocol. It uh— It is by— I’m trying to see the bottles over here ‘cause I’m like, “What is that company?” Uhm— Hang on. I’m gonna be right— Let me grab it. [pause] So, it’s DESBIO. It’s— So, I don’t know if you can see that but—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh. DESBIO, yep. I’ve heard of them. Yep. Very cool.
Michelle Norris: Yeah. It’s uhm— I think it’s DES— the real full name is Deseret or Deseret Biologicals? Uhm— But uh— This is my final one. I had a d— a different one. So, he had me on uhm— He hand me on several of these tinctures. And I was taking some in the morning and some in the evening. And uhm— That w— That’s really what helped get rid of the— is— was this particular protocol. And I know that they have an actual uhm— Mold Protocol. A Bull Mold Bold Protocol, but he had me on a couple of different things instead of that. Uhm— But I would imagine that that Mold protocol probably works really well, but—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Great. So, you’re on that with the— with the EBV. Was there anything else you were doing? We weren’t doing any activated charcoal or any Citrus pectins or any Glutathione— things like that?
Michelle Norris: No. Actually, he had me intentionally off of Glutathione uhm— that I was uhm— taking. I’m taking a Homocysteine hmm— type of uhm— tablet. And then, uhm— just really— The big thing was sleep. I mean, like he was just on me about sleep. You’ve got to figure out. Get your sleep right. And then, I’m trying to think if there was anything— Oh! And then, they also have a full detox program. That’s really cool. Uhm— That was one of the things that helped get rid of all the heavy metals was I went through that protocol. I’ve done that protocol uhm— three times now. And uh— But there was— There’s an Epstein-Barr Protocol. It’s uhm— two boxes, ten tinctures in each box, and you do the tincture every three days, and then, you do the next box in reverse. And so uhm— Really uhm— I Started really feeling great after that and started getting back my and— and actually started really losing weight once I did that with Keto.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s great. And then, how about the female hormone stuff. Was just separating the— was it the Estrogen and the Testosterone? Would that make a bigger difference with the migraines?
Michelle Norris: Actually, I came off of all of my hormones.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, great.
Michelle Norris: And I do— They have a hormone combination, and uhm— I did the hormone combination. And the only thing that we put that we went back on— that I went back on was my Progesterone an— in the evening to— for sleep. And uhm— So, it’s interesting after taking the— this tincture that’s uh— It’s called Hormone Combination. Uhm— I take uh— that the morning and in the evening. And uhm— I actually just redid my hormones not too long ago, like a couple of weeks ago. And uhm— [laugh] what’s funny is, I’m actually taking hormone replacement for Progesterone. My Progesterone was w— was not high enough. [laugh] I was like, “Wait. What?” But my d— my uh— Estrogen and my uhm— Testosterone were fine. And, one thing that we realized, too, through this process is that I’m very Estrogen dominant.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Michelle Norris: So, Combination was really helpful in helping balance out that Estrogen and uhm— getting everything right. But, my Progesterone is still low so uhm— but I was taking— I’m taking the highest dose so we’re not sure—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: How many milligrams? A hundred? Two hundred?
Michelle Norris: Two hundred.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: —ll, yeah.
Michelle Norris: And uhm— So I think, we’re probably d— I think that might have been an anomaly. It might be something we’re— or maybe I— I think I missed my Progesterone a couple of nights that week before. So, that might be it. I don’t know. So, we’ll see. I— I— She can’t go up on my uhm— my Progesterone, anyway, so uh— we’re just gonna s— wait it out and see how that works out. You know—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And I see it a lot— a lot of my patients too. I see that because Progesterone’s uh— It’s a buil— It’s higher up than the hormonal cascade than— than Cortisol. So, what happens is if the more stressed you are, you’ll actually pull from Progesterone to make that stress hormone Cortisol, and that’s— That makes sense. The— All those stressful episodes can easily pull that Progesterone down, and basically start skewing you in the Estrogen Dominance, where that ratio of Progesterone, which is typically like 23 to 25 times higher than Estrogen. It starts to drop. And that’s— That makes sense with the Estrogen Dominance that you mentioned before.
Michelle Norris: Yeah. So, anyway, I’m feeling a lot better so I’m thinking that uhm— We’ll probably uhm— just wait out and see— and see how my Progesterone works out next.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it.
Michelle Norris: So—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool. Any other knowledge bombs you want to drop? Anything else that you think is very important that you learned? Or, anything else about your health challenges that you’re going on that you want to teach the listeners about?
Michelle Norris: Uhm— Probably, one— One of the things that uhm— is— is to just really be— [pause] Yeah. This is particularly— Women are this way. We tend to not take care of ourselves. Uhm—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm—
Michelle Norris: We take care of everybody else first. But it’s like…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Michelle Norris: …being on a plane and— you know— the Oxygen mass dropped. It’s— You got to tap the drone on first before…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love that
Michelle Norris: —else. And so, I really started learning that I have to protect my sleep. I have to protect my time to take care of myself, and— and not feel bad about it. Because, the thing is, is that a lot of people depend on me, and if I m not able to do what I need to do, uhm— because I’m not taking care of myself, then, I’m letting them down anyway. So, it’s not— This is— The whole thing is I think that we go through this thing uhm— I come last. And— you need to come first. Annd uhm— So, I would— That would probably be the biggest thing that I would say I’ve learned in through all of this is that I have to come first. I can’t— I can’t let myself go last because uhm— I mean, that doesn’t mean I’m selfish and I’m like, “Oh. I’m not going to do anything for anybody else. It just means I have to protect that time. So that I make sure that I’m the best that I can possibly be for everybody else.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Totally makes sense, right? I mean, you can’t write a cheque for
Michelle Norris: Yeah. And then, the other thing is he was like, “Take a water time for myself in the morning and the evening to bookend my day. So— tsp— I usually do some type of meditation in the morning and some type of— of uh— uplifting reading. And then, in the evening, same thing. I do the same exact thing. I do meditation, and I do some type of uplifting reading. Uhm— One of the things that I noticed that I cannot do in— at night is that I cannot read Self-help books for— ‘Cause in my brain starts going and I’m like, “Oh. I want to get up and I need to go do this, and I need to go do that.” And I— So, I have learned to read things that are uplifting but they’re not— they’re not gonna be— mke my brain start going. So—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it. That’s phenomenal. Well, I urge all the listeners to head over and see the South by Southwest talk at the Palmer Health Event Center with you and Keith tomorrow. That is phenomenal. That will be March 10 for any of the listeners listening live. And then, PaleoFX i gonna be what the last weekend in April this year?
Michelle Norris: Yes, the 27th through the 29th. Uhm— And then, we also have Health Entrepreneur FX, which is the day before, for anybody that’s in the States. And uhm— we have uh— JJ Virgin and Dr. Mercola will both be at the Health Entrepreneur FX and, of course, at PaleoFX.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Chris Kresser, Robb Wolf, you have them coming.
Michelle Norris: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s great.
Michelle Norris: Yeah. Incredible. But we have— Yeah. Dr. Perlmutter’s coming back this year. We have
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, great.
Michelle Norris: Yeah. I’m excited about him, JJ Virgin,
Dr. Justin Marchegiani:
Michelle Norris: Yes. It’s gonna be an incredible event. I’m excited. Uhm— We made— We’re making a lot of changes to this
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow.
Michelle Norris: Yeah. I’m really excited about all these things ‘cause I think they’re gonna be uh— add a really cool element of fun. And,
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it. We’ll put the— the link to get your tickets and everything below here. If you’re listening or you’re on the podcast, click the description there, and paleofx.com for more info. Awesome, Michelle. Thank you so much. I’ll do a little video here I’ll put it out in the weeks before PaleoFX comes out. Of my top three things I’ve learned at PaleoFX. I’ll put a little plug out there. I asked you those three questions earlier. I’ll answer mine in the later video. So, thank you so much for coming on and all the great info you shared. And also, your health story, I appreciate that. People can learn a lot from other people’s health challenges, and I think that’s really insightful.
Michelle Norris: Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it and we look forward to seeing everybody at PaleoFX.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Thanks, Michelle. Take care.
Michelle Norris: Yep.
References:
Ancestral Health Symposium Talks and “Man Versus Food” by Robb Wolf
Dr. David Jockers – Ketosis and Cancer Prevention – Podcast #139
Dr. Justin Marchegiani and Dr. David Jockers engage in a very informative discussion about cancer prevention and ketogenic diet. Explore how a ketogenic diet helps in optimizing the mitochondria, reducing inflammation and supporting metabolism. Discover how it can be combined with periods of intermittent fasting and learn about its benefits on cancer patients.
Gain information on how to go on a ketogenic diet. Be aware of the high-quality, nutrient dense foods and supplements to take and understand the possible mistakes to avoid while on this diet.
In this episode, we will cover:
01:53 How Ketogenic Is Integrated With Cancer Patients
12:05 Internal Glycation
18:13 Cyclical Ketosis for Insulin Sensitive People
22:44 Blood Ketones Measurement
25:21 3 Ketone Mistakes
27:35 Collagenic Diet
28:01 Gluconeogenic Proteins
32:14 Ketogenic Diet and Cholesterol levels
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey there it’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani welcome back to Beyond Wellness Radio. We have Dr. David Jockers on the show. David, it’s great for you to be here. How are you doing today?
Dr. David Jockers: Justin, so awesome to be on with you. I’m so in a form of a fan at your show so uhh- so great to be on with you and actually make it to you know- your show! And then uhh- be on a chat with you.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, I appreciate that. I’ve been following your blog posts for years. I saw you on a treat about cancer with uhh- the thigh bones your series. I appreciate that, lots of good knowledge bombs there. Really excited to bring a lot more info to the listeners today.
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah. Absolutely! You know that was uhh- quite a privilege to be on that. And, what a movement! The truth about cancer to just getting that message out. Uhh- I mean people are starting to really realize wake up to the fact that, there are natural strategies for you to intake in order have you not cancer to obviously get well. Whether they’re going to take a conventional route right in alternative rather in a sense, combination which is more of like help a lot of people is in this combination of conventional as well as using natural strategies. So uhh- so it’s been huge.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it! And the great thing is you are also a clinician. So you’re working with patients as well. The nice thing is, it’s not just theoretical jargons so to speak. You’re actually applying these to the patients that you’re seeing in your clinic in Georgia which is great. And, one of the things that you’ve been doing and applying is Ketosis. So I’m just curious, how are you integrating that in with your clinic? As well as, how are you integrating that in with the cancer patients too?
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah, absolutely! So, I mean, Ketogenic Diet is so powerful for its facts on the mitochondria, reducing inflammation, and supporting in a sensuous help in about person have better metabolic flexibility. So it’s always a goal that I have. But, as you know, you know the different cases? You know, some people are going to struggle to try to apply Ketogenic Diet in their really phases. So, typically with auto-immune patients, I focus more on- in elimination diet still including yeah- a little bit more carbohydrates you saying things like carrots, you know, nutrient-dense sources varies seems like that. And I’ll get a lot of people that with auto-immunodeficiency and leaky gut that will say, “Okay, how am I going to get in the Ketosis by applying this and I was- so, I mean, that’s truly not our goal right now. In general, it’s you know, just like you talked about; Hey! It’s a Paleo template so it’s gonna be a lower carbohydrate go in hands and the anti-inflammatory nutrition plan. But the goal is in as early Ketosis whereas, when I’ve got somebody that has cancer. You know, early on I mean “Hey , I want them producing ketones and utilizing ketones because of the incredible therapeutic facts it has on reducing cancer cell division right. So basically, it’s something that goes down. It’s gonna lower cell division and that’s just so important. So basically, we’ll start implementing that. Now I like to do it in a nutrient-dense fashion. So, a lot of people would go out and you know, get and find information in Ketogenic Diet and it’s more like what’s being taught of in times of more like an Atkins Diet? And, I really try to focus on getting a ton of micronutrients in and you definitely can do it on a low-carb diet if you use herbs, if you use non-starchy vegetables; you can juice. You can apply a lot of your different techniques. Certain things from the Garcin therapy right which has tremendous results using things like coffee and a moss, and juicing and a nut. You can take elements of that, you can take elements of Budwig and kind of put them all together in a very low carb, high good fat template uhmm- to get a desired result.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah people don’t understand right? They think like, “Oh a Paleo Template” or like hear Ketogenic, they just think a whole bunch of meat. People forget you know a lot of times on a Paleo Template or Lower Carb Paleo Template. How you keep it a lower carb is you would really exchange it in a lot of the greens and a lot of the starch for vegetables, non-starchy vegetables which are nutrient-dense, low in toxins uhmm- they’re going to have lots of phytonutrients which are lot of these compounds that you’ve talked about or anti-cancer, right? The Diiodomethane, the Indole-3-Carbinole. Really good nutrients to help metabolize estrogen and again not just an all-meat diet but then again, meat is going to be very nutrient-dense as well that’s going to have a lot of good Amino Acids in there. A lot of good fatty acids especially were coming from the assumption that this is grasped organic high quality antibiotic-free. So you’re going to get a lot of nutrient-densely from that as well. So, I like the fact that you’re really focusing on the nutrient-dense. Yeah I think Atkins kind of missed that because well, you know- soil proteins are also lower carbs too, right? That may not be the best food, so I like how you kind of differentiate that.
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah absolutely! Like for example, I mean it in the Paleo Movement, the Atkins Movement, you know- we talk a lot about- a lot of people who use things like bacon. Whereas, the problem there is, bacon really has very little micronutrients in it. It may have a lot of good fats , right? And so- it coud be Ketogenic but it does have now the micronutrients in it and when we have highlight process meat; we’re gonna have a higher amount of Heterocyclic Amines and Acrylamide and different things like that. So, you know- we apply it. You know I’m a real big stickler on how the person prepares their meat so, you know- one reason why a vegetarian or vegan diet maybe beneficial for a period of time for somebody with uh- cancer would be because; we are taking out some of these environmental toxins like heterocyclic amines that are produced with a high heat cooking. (Which is healthier between grass-fed beef and frying meat) A lot of times we tell somebody, you know- eat grass-fed beef were not necessarily differentiating on how they prepare that so they may be barbecuing it and producing a lot of these compounds. So, I am a big on making sure they put it on the pan, put a whole bunch of coconut oil or MCT Oil down. I would tell them, put it- put down the oil to where- you know be so generous with it to whether it’s like a quarter inch of oil on your pan. Okay? So, that way, in a sense- Oil is going to protect against the really high heat, breaking down the proteins and creating things like acrylamide and heterocyclic amines and then cooking it low and slow right? So, cooking it in a more a lower temperature for a longer period of time is gonna be a lot better.
So, yeah I will do more of a moderate protein diet not high protein. Okay, moderate protein. That’s critical! We need the amino acids for the immune system but at the same time we don’t want to overstimulated M2O or we also don’t want that gluconeogenesis process or the protein; amino- protein is broken down into glucose and elevate blood sugar. So, moderate protein, lots of micronutrients right? So, Lots of cross super fetch vegetables. I’m a huge fan of sprouts. So, you know- a cancer diet we want to be consus sprouts. So I tell people to go and get, go to their whole foods or heath foods store. You know if they can’t grow it in their own? Right I may be a big step for people at first. So, yeah obviously can create their herb garden and regrow sprouts but you know what? You can just go to your health food store and I’ll tell them they should be going through you know, small little container sprouts every single day. So mong bean sprouts, broccoli sprouts, kale sprouts, be putting those sprouts into your diet using a lot of herbs so they should be able to smell the meal from the next room. Right? So much oregano, basil, thyme and the things like that. You know those flavanol, antioxidants, that are indoles some polyphenols? So powerful for improving cell communication and you know- Cell communication. The breakdown on cell communication- one of the biggest factors that initiates cancer growth and polyphenols are one of the best things for improving that cell communications- lots of those things in our diet.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it! Totally make sense coz- you talk about the polyaromatic hydrocarbon, the heterocyclic amines and the things that happened in our cooking. Now kind of my approach is- I try to high temperature? I sear in a minute or two, sear in a minute or two and then pull it off and then bake it on a lower temperature their form not charring coz- It’s the aspect of you wanna seal the flavor in the high heat but then you don’t want to keep it on there and let it char and develop those cancer causing things. So, for me it’s like I get half my grill not you know-there’s no flame? The other half there’s a flame. Let that heat up for like 5 or 10 minutes. I get that to about 500 degrees. Sear, sear then pull it off, then raise it above and put it over the flame where there’s no- put it over the part where there is no flame. That way, it cooks the middle part. So, i appreciate that and that’s a really good point. Also, adding in those vital nutrients. I think that was Dr. McCauley said, any of the advanced glycation end-products that you get from the charring aspect that you just eat a whole bunch of vegetables and ad some of those herbs on there like you mentioned. That can easily just negate those too. So when you combine things up, you can negate some of that too, right?
Dr. David Jockers: Oh yeah! Totally! And, I’m a huge fan also of so you prepare your meat and then you squeeze lemons on there or lime or you can do lemon juice, lime juice. You get a mutual benefit. You get a really combination of benefits there. Not only do you get the antioxidants especially, when it’s fresh squeeze- which we best get the vitamins you get the vital flavanoids right on there. Then you put herbs on top as well. But also the lemons got citric acid or if you use an apple cider vinegar that acidic acids can start the digestive process before even get into your body. And you know Justin, may I hey. The more we can take stress off the digestive system the better we’re gonna stimulate nutrients, less-inflammation, were gonna curr less energy we got to put in to digestive track. Therefore, the more energy we are going to have left over for immune benefit right? To help regulate and run our immune system. So, I love lemon pepper chicken. I mean using lemon, lime, apple cider vinegar, on meat anyways it tastes better right. And uhmm- and you get those benefits
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah I was watching some of your wife Angel with doing a lot of recipes on YouTube – really, really good stuff too. I was checking out the recipe on homemade breast milk or homemade milk for the child if you can’t have enough uh- And I know you guys had twins like a year to go so I know that’s gonna be hard right? That’s gonna be a supply issue there with just so many kiddos.
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah absolutely! Having twins.. That was uh- our initiation into parenthood. So, it was like all of a sudden. And you know crazy thing is, we were only met- we were married for 6 weeks from we conceived. And she had that been diagnosed with Endometriosis whom us told we would have a lot of struggles having a baby. I’ve been working with her, helping her balance out her hormones. Okay, but we just didn’t even expect that it would happen that quickly. We got married and had our twins within the same year and so, it just kind of this initiation at parenthood and uhm- basically she had trouble producing enough milk for both. So, we need to create a formula and there’s not a lot of good ones out there. And so, you know- as quickly as possible I’m jumping onto a westonaprice. Looking at their recipe, learning on how to do it. Fortunately, we’ve got a great grass fed milk formula out here. So whenever we get our milk our boys tolerated it so well, and of course we had our probiotics in there. And uhm- just a whole bunch of different things cod liver oil, all kinds of good stuff there. And our boys are so well-developed. And, you know- then there are stapled food. I mean they were getting- up until an she’s stopped being able to lactate at about 6months and even up until then they were getting like 25% breast milk, 75% formula. So..
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Damn. That’s great and I’m an empathetic uhh- my younger brothers are twins. My mom had myself, and then my younger brother Matt, and then she wanted a girl and she got twin boys. So, it’s just- I lived through that, I saw her right. So- I know it man you are uhh- you are going through a lot. I get it you know. I’m not worthy doing so good man. That’s good. Good for you.
So I appreciate the recipe your wife’s doing. I saw it somewhere, and were really, really excellent. Very good stuff. And the couple of thing he talked about the Advanced glycation end-products. Which you kind of refer to it as like the polyaromatic hydrocarbons, the heterocyclic amines but also, we get that same type of reaction that glycation that’s happening internally with excess sugars. So that’s- We have one aspect where we can create it in our food right? Which is like the glycation’s like. If you pull out the blow torch in the rest on and they do the crumbule in front of you. That browning blasted glycation that happens in your food but also in yourselves. The best thing about kind of your approach; what you’re talking about, is you avoid the internal glycation . Can you talk more about that?
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah absolutely! So basically, we know that sugar is something we absolutely need. All of ourselves in the sense we need some level of blood sugar. If your blood sugar drops to zero, you’re not gonna live. So, we have blood sugar body has certain regulatory mechanisms to keep your sugar elevated to a certain degree. Well at the same time, the more that we are running off a glucose metabolism or glycation. The more anti- you know it’s really an anti-nutrient, the more damage is actually causing the body. So, we want minimal reliance on glucose when we are at rest. You know obviously if were working out exercising at a high intensive, were gonna need more of it- were gonna need that. We’re gonna need that. Our body will adapt to actually create more stronger antioxidant defense system when we do that . Thats one of the reasons why high intensity exercise can be really beneficial. However when were at rest like you and I here we are, we’re just having a conversation. We should be burning 99% fat and ketones. That’ gonna keep really that glycation impact low. And we know that sugar in general- I c-I call it basically it’s dirty fuel. Right? So we produce. It’s a very very low gas mileage in a sense. We produce 2 ATP from Anarobic Metabolism. So ATP, I then and see try a fast fit so our major molecule event energy. We produce an amount of metabolic waste. And o it’s just powdering out smoke right that you know- tons and tons of smoke out of the exhaust. That’s basically what it’s like. Whereas when were burning ketones which basically our liver converts fatty acids in te ketones and the ketones are what we use for energy. And so when our body is using these ketones, we produce a rampant amount of energy in very little metabollic waste. So we get a lot of better mileage overall. So basicall, we want our bodies to be very good at burning both. When it’s very good at burning ketones for energy and glucose, it will preferentially use ketones as long as we create an environment where glucose in general stays at a moderate level. As long as were not spiking it with high carbohydrate meals. Okay, then were gonna have that metabolic flexibility to our bodysays, “you know what, at rest, while I’m having this conversation with Justin here? I’m gonna burn these ketones up because they’re just better for my body theyre uhh- again, they’re cleaner fuel I might need a lot of more and I’m gonna produce a lot less toxic waste as oppose to when I go. Because after this interview, I actually- I’m off for my workout so I’m gonna go do some heel sprints and uhh- and squat jumps. And so, good high quality you know- really good high intensity workout? So while I’m doing that- I’m huffing and puffing my body’s gonna switch over and start burning up that sugar, right? during that period of time and as soon as I’m done with that exercise and I caught my breath?- back in the burning ketones.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes 100%! It’s the seen versus the unseen. Because if the ketones are there, if we are doing it dieterally, we get these awesome fuel source that’s really clean, right? so, if we got sugars like diesel fuel, right? You drive behind a diesel truck and we got high octane race fuel from the ketones. We get the ketones tht are high but when the ketones are high we have to have the insulin low for the ketones to be high. And when the insulin’s low, that’s a strong promoting growth factor for cells. And cancer basically is cell growth kind of unchecked, right? Where you can go in the pub med and just type in hyperinsulinism or insulin and cancer. And you can do it for any cancer. There’s almost a correlation.
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah! So, I mean Insulin really is a lifesaving hormonic get to butter up. But ultimately, it helps prevent against AGE development that advanced glycolitic enzyme development. Coz if blood sugar is really high in our bloodstream and it’s not controlled? then we end up basically just destroying nerve endings. This is why people with diabetes end up with optic neuritis, peripheral neuropathy coz the sugar, the advanced gycolitic enzymes- those sticky proteins were sugar grabs onto Protein molecules creates this uhh- highly reactive molecule that damages nerves. So insulin comes out, it’s job is to lower blood sugar so it takes sugar put it in the cells where it belongs. Problem is we have to keep on cranking out lots and lots of insulin. It ends up also promoting inflammation in the body. The inflammation will scar up the cell membranes and the receptors. And overtime, our bodies starts hearing the message for Insulins. Kind of like, you know-if you recurr my houses start banging on my door. At first I hear you, if you just kept coming over messing with me. Then overtime, it’s like the boy who cried wolf. It’s like okay uhh- you know what- this is probably not a real scenario I’d dole you out. And so it’s kind of same thing with insulin. Basically, we want to keep our body really really sensitive to insulin. We want to were insulin knocks on the door, immediately we open that door. And the best way to do that is keeping our sugar down, keeping carbohydrate total, net carbohydrates– thats the amount of carbohydrates minus fiber. Fibers does not count. Fibers are not glycolitic. Were not gonna be able to break that down. Fibers is really a nutrient for microbiome which we need. And so basically, we want to keep those net carbs fairly low right? It can range for different people the better the more insulin responsive your body is, the more carbohydrates your body is going to be able to handle.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it! Love it! Love it! Very Good. We got some questions coming here on the live chat so to everyone that’s putting the questions, keep em’ coming at the end we’ll do a wrap at the fire round with Dr. Dave. And we’ll go through them all. But you said it’s some really important things that I wanna echo couple things. Number 1, we talked about the fuel sources. Number 2 we talked about the insulin kind of like being a double-edge sword. Now most people in the population being insulin resistant there’s massive benefits on the ketogenic diet because you get those receptors sites more sensitive which is great. But the double-edged sword. I did a video on this last week, the double -edge sword of ketosis. Where if you are already very insulin sensitive then youre going low carb for too long. Then we may drop the insulin almost a little bit too low we may get some negative symptoms with being ketosis and not cycling up and out. What’s your take on cyclical ketosis some people that are already insulin sensitive then going into it for too long What’s your take?
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah that’s a great question! I think it really depends on the individual but I’m a huge fan of experimenting. And I know for myself, I did much better on the cyclical ketogenic. What that means is, were gonna rotate in some healthy forms of carbs from time to time okay. And I really- what I trying to- Have my clients do something like 30 days low carb and then from there we switch in where we do 1 day a week, we add in more carbs ideally from healthy sources. You know the sicker you are, the more important that is to stay away from fake foods. and stick with really nutrient-dense foods and there’s a lot of higher carb nutrient dense foods that are amazing for the body like carrots I mean just awesome food for the body. it just has the carbohydrate low, so we add in sweet potatoes so yeah different things like that. Beets, these things are great for the body.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Safe starch forms
Dr. David Jockers: Exactly! All those safe starches. Even quinoa you know well basically if you use something like quinoa with apple cider vinegar on it load it up with turmeric. I tell them do quinoa but make it orange quinoa or if you’re gonna do rice, make it orange rice. That’s such a good carrier for turmeric you got more of that Curcumin Antioxidant need to your system put a bunch of herbs in there. That would be really really good.Which you hve one day , you’re not regulating your carbohydrates your getting them from safe sources but you’re not really regulating it and uhh- so I like to include that in. And then I also like to include a 24-hour basically liquid fast where you are doing things like broth uuhm- or salt water uhh- you can do maybe a green juice or something along those lines your greens powder and water and just staying really well hydrated for about 24hour period of time. So you get these powerful benefits of intermittent fasting in there. So basically, what we’re going to do to you is 5 really low carb days, 1 day where we do 24-hour fast, 1 day we’re not regulated. We’re not trying to count calories or carbohydrates; we’re just saying Hey you know what? I’m gonna eat healthy foods and eat all these higher carbohydrate, healthier starches and just you know how i feel. Just eat them to n a sense till I feel associated. And were gonna include good fats in that. So I tell them “Hey! put some MCT oil or something like that on your carrots till we saw the ketones in this system”, were not worried about were just uhm- were not worried about hey what are our blood sugar is, what are our total carbohydrate count is. Uhm- when we do that so usually once a week for most people that respond well. Sometimes we need it more; sometimes we need it twice a week. Okay and for other individuals I tell them “Hey! Experiment! Try going two weeks without it right and maybe a carb blowed on oneday every2 weeks and see how you feel with that”. And so a lot of its subjective coz all of us are unique. We all have a unique biochemistry and our body is gonna give us different signals and so part of our health journey is really you know- I sell my clients it’s about getting a master’s degree on your health. You know it’s gonna take your time to really understand how your body runs best. Okay? and you know people like Justin and I were here to help coach you to help you get good advice. But at the same time you gotta really help- you gotta really pay attention to signs and signals your body is giving you. And make the adjustments that you need. You know if you’re under more stress and you’re doing higher intensity training on a more regular basis. You may need to carb cycle a little bit more. Uhm it’s a really just depends on what your stress load is, what your lifestyle looks like or your sleep habits look like. All of those factors.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it! Totally great points here. I’m actually gonna be testing my blood ketones here live on the air. Again, I got the precision extra meter heat and I get these little strips here I got them on ebay they’re a little bit cheaper there you get it from New Zealand but I’m gonna test my ketones. I like to be at least .5 to 1. I mean this morning was just some coffee somewhat high quality organic coffee about 1 or 2 tablespoons that high quality MCT coconut base not palm. Tablespoon or two of grass-fed butter and about- a bit about 10-15 grams of collagen amino acids that might through collagen and that’s where I’m at it. SO I et about 5600 calories and I’m feeling great this friday so I like .5 to 1 and then typically I’ll even measure my blood sugar as well. I went out to last weekend to a really nice steak restaurant we did a really good grass-fed rib eyes, uhmm- oysters, some brocolli, I put bone marrow on my steak I measured my blood sugar after my meal- it was actually at 70. So no major spikes in blood sugars so that’s a pretty cool thing. What are you doing to measure? I’m doing ketones. I’m doing blood glucose some clinicians are even measure fasting insulin I see people blood sugar blow a hunder but their insulins are like 15, 18, Like it’s. The Insulin’s so high, its compensating by pulling that blood sugar rim but the insulin so high but that’s creating all that cell growth that could promote cancer right?
Dr. David Jockers: Oh yeah absolutely yeah we test fasting insulin as well but they’re at some important thing to look at. Hemoglobin A1C’s we have to look the overall clycation impact on uhm- on the blood cell. So we look at that as well. Definitely, precision extra using the ketone strips. For me personally I like to use the Ketonix breath meter just know that my body is producing them. And you know ultimately once you’ve been doing this for a little while, you kind of know how you feel when you’re using these ketones because you’re able to go a longer occurrence at time between meals and you feel really mentally sharp. Uhh- you don’t feel tired. You feel good. You don’t feel hungry and so if people are telling me that their having issues, mood, energy, cravings, uhhhhm- you know hunger things like that. These are all signs that the body is not utilizing the ketones well. And that’s an important factor and you know I’m a big fan of getting a lot of salts in the diet. most people need a lot of extra minerals and especially when your insulin starts to go down. Insulin helps your body basically to retain particularly sodium but really most minerals. And when you start to lower your insulin levels, you’re gonna need- you’re gonna excrete more of these minerals. You’re gonna need those. So, doing something like a broth, okay? You can just go out and get organic free ranged chicken broth for like 2 dollars 50 cents or something like that from your local. I mean, it’s becoming more and more common at our local grocery store. We can get imagine organic fruit and chicken broth. Not the same thing as bone broth, doesn’t have that the same level of collagen protein might have a little bit in it in there but doesn’t have much of those types of amino acids but it has got tons of minerals. And you also get some antioxidants in because typically, what they’re doing is they’re using like celery and onions and garlic and stuff like that and just kind of boiling it up. So you get some of the essence of those. You get good minerals and to me I drink it as a mineral drink. Uhm and I like that. Warm mineral drink. We keep our house cold at night for good sleep. We turn down the Ac when hot. And so when I wake up in the morning it’s like: yeah I just really like that broth kind of that saltiness get that into the system and it just seems worked so well. Uhm and I find it that helps for blood sugar regulation as well just getting those good minerals because it keeps your adrenals balanced.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Really great points and that kind of goes into my top 3-5 ketone mistakes. 1. when you go too low- when you go low carb what’s gonna actually happen? Insulin Drops, the minerals go. So you have to `consciously make an effort to get the pottassium back up from the green veggies and let me get the sodium amount from the broth and seasalt that’s number 1. I see patients quite frequently saying I’m starting to have heart palpitations down this lower carb ketogenic diet it;s like where the minerals at , we adjust the minerals- fixed!.
Number 2: Too much muscle meat. Boneless, skinless, chicken breast right? Just getting protein powders without any fat in with it. Veal, Venison, uh- Rabbit meat right? Those are the big things and the Number 3: Poor Digestion. They don’t have enough hydrochloric acid you already mention the citric acid in the apple cider vinegar helping, not enough enzymes, that’s not in a bile slots, maybe they even got a gut infection that’s preventing that from happening. So I see that digestive component is a huge component because we know protein and fats harder to digest than carbohydrates and sugar.
Dr. David Jockers: Huge component especially you know when people are starting on the Ketogenic Diet one of the common complaints we have is constipation. Yeah know but I was like uhhh- I’m constipated. here’s a number of reasons for that . If you’re doing it right, one of ther reasons could be the fact that your microbiomes got a switch over right. And there’s kind of this transition which could cause lowered intestinal motility. That;s possible but most often is because, person’s eating a lot of meat and then a hormone of hydrochloric acids . We gotta address that. And then the mineral, the mineral elements. Uhmm getting more minerals into the system magnesium into the system to help improve gastrointestinal motility and all those strategies we talked about earlier using a lot of herbs. And all of that those are carminatives they’re really really good for muscle contractions in the intestines moving the waste through. So the more that we can add these components in, getting those minerals, getting the high quality herbs and sprots and different things like that and those uhh-really really polyphenal rich very low carb with any carb, types of nutrients into our system with our meals is just so powerful. Lemon juice, things like that that helps support digestion with enzymes and citric acid that’s for acidic gastric from the apple cider vinegar. Very Very powerful. And Justin I had a question for you. Can you put the collagen in the Bulletproof coffee there? Your MCT Oil in the coffee.Do you notice any change compared to when you don’t with your blood sugar. What have you been noticing?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh that’s a great question. I got to test that. I tested it just the other day. Typically my blood sugar will just stay below a hundred. Again i listen to Josh Aksin, Jordan Robin just last weekend and uhmm- Jordan Robin’s talking about “Hey it’s Collagenic Diet”. Now we have a conversation I pulled them off the stage as a doc. I said let’s talk about the gluconeogenic proteins versus the ketogenic. He’s like you know the Hydroxyproline, these are in the collagen. Are these gonna be as gluconeogenic as let’s say what’s in whey protein or other muscle needs? According to him, his opinion is that the methionine and a lot of the sulfur amino acids are potentially more gluco neogenic and then the collagen aminos are more ketogenic in nature, it won’t spike up blood sugar as much. So tha’t his take on it and I think they get similar to the podcast for Dr. Burn Freelander talking about the major reasons why collagen is so great. It’s a little bit lower in methionine and that can have some blood sugar.
Dr. David Jockers: Yesh absolutely. We need methionine but the realty is most people in the society are eating a ton of muscle meat and very little collagenous meat. These ligaments, joints, cartilage structure which our ancestors ate a lot of that. So yeah getting that college and proetin and really helps balance it. Now L-glutamine obviously will really keep to the immune system, havereally keep for gut help but tends to be more insulinogenic and more you know just basically tends to increase much sugar a little bit more uhmm- what’s your glutamin status and collagen protein? do you know?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So you get a lot of L-glutamin because it typically comes in a form of glutamic acid many people do great with it some people that are more on the inflame side, they can go down to glutamate but for the most par I find it tend to be pretty good with a lot of people .
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah, Justin for those people, I know you’ve seen that. For thoe people that produce more glutamate and less Gaba with it. Magnesium and B6. See it really well with that conversion.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: yep I a 100% agree on that too. Then I also see it too. You mention the muscle meat like methionine is still really good, we need that- that’s a really important phase to detoxifying compound for you said it Crom P450 (Cytochrome P450) oxidize pathways. But were getting a lot of muscle meat you mentioned it uhh- Jordan Robin’s talked about were missing the connective tissue component that’s just so important for skin, nails, joints, tendons, ligaments right?
Dr. David Jockers: Oh yeah absolutely. I have an article on my website where I talked about that where muscle meats are very rich with methionine and tryptophan. And glycin and protein are the major amino acids that were gonna find in the cartilages, the cartilage and the joint structure. Glycin so critical for phase 2 liver detoxification..
Glutathione..
Dr. David Jockers: yeah it helps regulate Gaba right then have it to our neurotransmitter to reduce excite or toxicity and the brain help keep us calm. Most people are just knocking it enough of that because again they’re taking so much of this methionine. So, I’m a big fan of the cartilages diet. i just wasn’t sure personally how would it affect in my autoimmune cases and people blood sugar instability issues oftentime. I have them do that the cartilage uhm sorry the collagen in the coffee. And I know Dave asked for you you know he recommends that. I know that you’ve been talking about that a lot .
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Gotta be beef collagen you know I do the neo-cell chicken collagen. Tastes like crap. I gotta throw my coffee out of the. Gotta be collagen peptide its gotta be beef for my taste. It destroys the coffee if it’s not beef.
Dr. David Jockers: I use a bone broth of pure bone broth protein. i find it that works just kind of a savory flavor but you just mix it and you really don’t notice it. I noticed that, that works good.. Now for myself, I don’t personally do that. I personally either just do broth in the morning or I will do a Bulletproof coffee without the collagen proteins in there and the usual i put those in a protein shake. For me that seem to keep my blood sugar in most stable and my ketones at the highest and i feel the best with that. Now this wasn’t sure I haven’t had a lot of people test their ketones pre and post. So that would be interesting to see. How they responded adding in the collagen protein into the Bulletproof coffee.
I will test it today. I got my ketone meter. I’ll test it in a bit.
Dr. David Jockers: Keep me updated on that.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’ll do a video on this today. But .5 to .6 tend to where be.. at the minimal of ketones there which tends to be pretty good. Now I want to touch upon a couple of things here. People whose cholesterol I’m going to hit a person’s question over here on the chat. But people, whose cholesterol goes out in a ketogenic diet; Typically, I find a lot of people’s cholesterol actually goes down on a ketogenic diet if they’re coming from an insulin resistant type of diet. Coz insulins resist or insulins gonna stimulate the HMG coereductase enzyme hematolitiric oil reductase that’s the enzyme’s status block. So if you are actually decreasing that enzyme by cutting the insulin down, i see people really improved their cholesterol numbers. But at the same time, cholesterol may go up on a ketogenic diet but if it does, I see the HTL go up in conjunction wih the LDL so the ratio is not getting worst and the trigs will also go down and the particles side shifts so your LDL A would go up , B would go down and your LDL will also improve too.
Dr. David Jockers: Oh yeah absolutely I mean that’s huge. Im are always looking at that triglyceride HDL ratio. It’s always been less than two. Ideally, yeah I like to uh 1.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep
Dr. David Jockers: And that’s a big fact that’s way more huge than our over cholesterol. So you wanna definitely look at that. And really when cholesterol’s huge. If you have that terrible, try at of high LDL, Low HDL, High triglycerides- usually like you said- it’s because of insulin resistance. It could also be a thyroiditis.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s the thing! That’s what I was gonna touch upon yes you hit it.
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah or could be an infection. So those were really the 3 big factors that are causing that so it’s really a downswing of that its the body that actually saying “It’s a response by the body to certain agree for healing when it comes to inflammation, infection and insulin resistance. And then , you know a thyroid basically you’ll just gonna end up producing steroid hormone which is so important for proper regulation of cholesterol levels. So..
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% and 1 other 2 other X factors I find is a dairy allergy and an egg allergy. So, people put a lot of butter, cream or a lot of eggs. Try cutting those out for a few weeks. Go get a lipid panel done. I’ve seen people literally been at 450 for their cholesterol and dropped down to 200 for in weeks.
Dr. David Jockers: yeah that’s a goal of nugget right there. Especially for some people, trying to do a ketogenic diet. Yeah! Absolutely! And egg i mean the reality is: milk, protein and egg sensitivities are very high in our society. I think one reason is rally vaccines. They have egg out boom it in the- Vaccine is to create antibiotic response. So if you get a vaccine at an early age, your body creates an antibiotic response to egg out boom and.. And then some level of permeability in your gut and you’re eating eggs and you’re not fully digesting them well. The ability now to egg out boom and slips out doesn’t get fully digested and broken down in Amino acids Soups out in the bloodstream , your body’s gonna do what it’s ought to do.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: A 100%. And I also find too that if you heal the gut and you get the inflammation down, and then you reintroduce things the right way. What I mean by the right way, is you do the egg poached soft, you keep the yolks would run. In that way, we are not denaturing the protein coz sometimes it’s just the oxidize cholesterol that are our immune system is reacting to. Sometimes it’s evident in the yolk or sorry the white part of it. And when it comes to dairy, you start with Ghee, grass fed ghee and then you progressed to grass-fed butter . But again, one at the time. And then you can monitor with the lipid panel in between. And that pretty inexpensive task. But I’ve seen that really help and people have been able to add those things back in and not have jump in to cholesterol.
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah that’s really really good. Especially some of again, that’s how a ketogenic diet. Coz typically you’re gonna be eating like I’m a huge fan of your grass-fed butter right. So yeah, taking it, take it out for a week then try adding it back. You know you could even do that something along those lines. I’ll have people do post testing a lot of times.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep
Dr. David Jockers: So basically, just take your pulse. Take a resting pulse. Okay? Say its 60 beats per minute. Then go ahead put some grass-fed butter on your tongue right? Take a few deep breaths. Wait about 20 seconds and take your pulse again. And if it jumps up 3 or more beats that’s a sign of stress response to it. And if ever you have stress response to something, it’s gonna cause inflammation in your body. So I’d be something to take out at that point if you did ever response like that. Take it out for a month. Okay? Follow a good anti-inflammatory, leaky gut based diet outside of using you know-those dairy using any sort of dairy products and then try adding it back in and then and.. like you said. Best thing if it’s dairy is to add that Ghee; cause that’s got the least amount of inflammatory dairy proteins like Casein in Whey, also the Lactase as well. Those are the things that most people are reacting to. So you start that. Then go ahead and do a pulse test with that. And if your pulse test comes out well, add it back in your diet one day. Consume a bunch of grass fed Ghee on things and then see how you feel of it for about 3 or 4 days. If you notice of symptoms, okay- increasing amount of symptoms. Sign your body is still not fully recovered.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%! Theres an application called Food Sense, you can download it on your phone and it will do that same thing you mentioned. You out your finger over like the camera and it’ll measure your pulse before and after so, 100% that’s a great way to do it. Now next, is I see people that are going maybe too low carb for too long or maybe they’re more Insulin sensitive. And I actually see their blood sugar jump and there are some people where we actually add in a little bit more carbs and their blood sugar actually drops. In my whole theory is that the gluconeogenic processes is corticol dependent. So that cortisol is causing a little bit too much of a bump in that blood sugar. And if we add just a little bit of carbs back in especially the safe starchy carbs you’ve mentioned. We can actually drop the blood sugar by actually adding in carbs. What’s your take on that?
Dr. David Jockers: Uh, 100% I totally agree with that. So I have seen it a number of times and so, they’re super, super low carb diets ultimately long term for most people are not gonna be very healthy. So, adding in again some of these safer carbohydrate components. In all reality, the body was meant to adapt. Our ancestors, they weren’t just low carb because they were tryna’ lose weight. They were low carb because they were eating whatever was available And for the most part, what was available was lower carb foods, meats, and they would have times of famine. They have times were they would go days without food. And so, reality is, they had a great adaptability. And cells that can adapt are healthy cells right? Whereas sick cells, cancer cells don’t adapt well. So, in a sense adding in priming the body with little bit of carbohydrates here and there. I find to be the most effective way for a long term health and long term sustainability for most people that are- certain percentage of people that.. They tell me “Hey you know I’ve been for Ketosis for 3 years and I’m doing great”. Okay? So, there are certain percentage that I won’t- I don’t wanna take that away from those individuals. But at the same time I would say probably four or fifths, 80% are gonna do better to some level of cycling out their carbs.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah a hundred percent totally make sense. Now what about Ketogenic Diet when you have infections? We all know that a lot of people are Insulin Resistant. A lot of these got microbes that love the feed off of sugar, carbohydrates, especially the yeast. I see what parasites and fungus why could that’s really easy to access. But there are people like, Kressers talked about it at poligy emanate. Talked about that these critters can also fuel off ketones. Now my approach is, that sugar is gonna be the easier fuel source. So that’s gonna be the low-hanging fruit. But what do you do when people, maybe the ketogenic diet is feeding some of these critters. My approach is we go low if we see an exacerbation being so low. We just gently tape for about and see if there’s any improvement in symptoms. How do you handle that?
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah! very very similar. I think microbes are adaptable just like our cells who are adaptable. So you know if we go low carb at first, they’re gonna start dying. And the at some point if they want to maintain the resiliency, they got to adapt those microorganisms. You know they have short half-lives and that they start to adapt. And they start to be able to burn whatever fuel they can. But again just like you said- I mean glucose is the easier fuel for them that’s why they prefer it. Uhmm- it’s easier for their chemistry. And it’s so.. I still am a fan of “Hey! let’s get some ketones in there”. Now, big thing there is getting the right antimicrobial stance. So eating a diet that’s rich in polyphenol like antioxidants is important. Coz it improves cell communication, improves your immune system’s stability- can recognize whether it’s a virus, whether it’s yeast, parasites as opposed to uhm normal cell right? We wanna do things to uhm- strengthen the immune system while we change the you know the -metab- the, the.. fuel source for these microbes and I think that’s really key. I think doing both of those things is a fantastic combination and then even if implementing if the person’s able to handle it some intermittent fasting can also be very very helpful there too because again, we were reducing the food stuffs for those individuals. And then when we do feed, we feed with lots of antimicrobials. So that way, the yeast, microorganisms.-they start hunkering down when during the fast. Then, that’s food become prevalent they come out and you know- they are not differentiating in a sense there like “Hey!” I’m like If you are hungry, You know- you know what Justin if you go a week without a food or whatever it is and you’re starving- you’re gonna be a little bit less uhmm– you know you’re gonna be a little bit less sensitive about what you eat. You just want food in your body, you know? And it’s kind of the same thing with the yeast, the different uhh- microbes and they’re gonna start eating and then a course of if you’ve got the anti-microbial whether its from supplement. You know, I’m a fan of it with supplement and foods, right? Right in there at the same time as they eat they are taking in the these different component or gonna help basically combusters of wall or whatever it si whatever the mechanism is to help kill them off.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally make sense.
Dr. David Jockers: And then following it up with a bunch of charcoal or clay or something like that to .. Any of the gases and uhh- all the sort of uhh- toxic metabolites that they were least .
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally make sense and one of the things that I incorporate when we’re doing specifically clearing programs to address these infections. It’s like chum in the water. You wanna go shark that and then you gotta put some chum in the water to bring those sharps in the surface if you’re gonna do some killing of these bacteria, you gotta chum that water with maybe a little bit more of carbs or a little bit more fodmaps that for dealing with SIBO (Small intestinal bacterial overgrowth). Bring them in the surface and then, *clap smash* blind site baby!
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah absolutely! Yep! That’s what I think like the warrior die approach for it’s like played. You know like doing a 24-hour fast like I was talking about for able to do that one once a week. That’s 24-hours. These microbes replicate so fast they usually have like- `something like I don’t know if you know the numbers but I’ve heard like 4-6 hour lives, right? So reality is, they are already changing their metabolism during thta period of time. And, uhm- you know they’re having to adapt very rapd rate in order to survive and so we go 24-hours without major amount of calories. Now, we’ve started- we’ve reduced some of that microbial load overall. Okay as long as we moved our bowels. Also, while were doing that- drinking lots of fluids maybe using magnesium supplements. Keeping the bowels moving well, right? Getting all that stuff out. We’ve reduced some microbial load Yeah then we hit it in. You know the warrior died that’s kind of like “Hey you, you know you eat very light during the day and then you have the feeds meal, right?” And of course, we want to recommend a healthy feast meal. Not just Domino’s pizza right? But you have that healthier feast meal wherein you’re getting in a lot. Your good foods okay- you know safe starches, things like that. You know at acertain point you know at least once a week. Uuuhm- you know with some day it does have infections I’m a fan of and then pounding it with those anti-microbials and the again using charcoal clay, different things like that , different absorbing agents help clean the system because you’ll gonna have a lot of metabolic waste leftover from these microbes so you wanna go in there and grab that stuff out or we’re gonna have a greater livelihood of having uhm- die of symptoms- using a lot of water too, good hydration again keeping those bowels moving that’s so important.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it! well outside of that couple of questions I’ll just roll through here. I’ll just give you a wrap of response. Can taking digestive enzymes plus ACL plus Apple Cider Vinegar prior to a meal be too much for someone with a compromised digestive system? My opinion is if you have a compromised digestive system you’re probably not making enough HCL enzymes so my take is the gut’s not irritated by the HCL, you know- do HCL based on sensation and then opt the enzymes which tends to be more you know, non-abrasive. What’s your take?
Dr. David Jockers: Uh totally! Absolutely! I would do that. And I think that uhm- that question I think they said do HCL before the meal. Okay if you’re really irritated with your gut lining, probably better to do HCL in the middle of the meal.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Bingo!100% Yep! Kind of aligns it you know it says like the oreo cookie. You got the filling there. Totally! And none of the top be there coz sometimes they got stuck at the top and hit that top of the atrium or the soft…I see it both ways.
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Perfect! and then the person here comments “Well it sounds like a Ketogenic Diet is a diet for inactive people” My take is well if you’re insulin resistant, you’re not burning fat. This is a therapeutic diet to burn fat and number 2 is we want to burn clean fuel. What’s your take?
Dr. David Jockers: Well yeah. It’s reallya diet for active and inactive people. Definitely, inactive people obviously we need to use diet to uh- to get insulin under control if they’re active- you know what? We want the body to have this level of metabolic flexibility where ot’s able to adapt its metabolism based on the needs of the environment. I wanna have incredible metabolic flexibilities. What do I do for that? I move my body a lot. I exercise at a really high intensity uh– Four days a week I do a really high-intensity workouts. Okay? while I’m in Ketosis. Why? because I want mybody to be able to be realy good at going between using ketones for energy and using glucose for energy. What’s gonna happen, youre gonna actually end up boosting your uhh- you’re basically you’re losing your blood losing in levels between meals and that’s gonna help preserve muscle mass and help improve performnce. and that’s gonna help preserve glycogen in yourselves. your body gets really good at storing glycogen and utilizing it only at times when it need sit.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it and losing its antiviral in a ketogenic amino. That’s one of the few aminos that could go to ketones. Love that! Yep! So what are you eating Dr. Dave? Give me a rundown of your day look like.
Dr. David Jockers:Yeah absolutely so for myself This is uh- a big thing that I teach I only do one solid food. I would say 6 days on a week. On an average. I’m doing one solid food meal a day. Okay? And then usually its in the evening coz that’s typically my most relaxed period of time. So I’m a big fan of liquid nutrition. So, In the morning like… This morning, I drank a lot of broth; In fact, there still have some right here deluded uhh- with hot water. Okay, and I drink that. And sometimes I go like its 24 hours like were talking about and do that but uhm- typically especially on a workout day- for long noon I do a protein shake. And I actually like a protein putting. I put 1 or 2 avocados in there. I use coconut milk or raw grass-fed milk. Uhm- I use good high quality protein powder I like uhh like a boom broth collagen protein uhhhm or sometimes i use like a p-protein. Whwy protein seems to bump up my blood sugar a bit so uhm I use one of those types of proteins in there. And sometimes I use a combination of them. And uh- and that’s really pretty much it. That’s in the- oh yeah, I put MCT oil in there and somtimes some extra coconut oil in. So really it’s a lot of fat and it’s dense. Proetin putting and I love it. So either make it with chocolate or just a vanilla. Okay? Chocolates uh- that chocolate avocado pudding, one of my favorites. Uhm and so I’ll have that typically for lunch okay and then you know I stay really hydrated especially in the afternoons. Uhm- a little bit more intentional about hydration. In the morning it seems like my body is craving the hydration, the minerals. What about a naturally, I drink usually about a gallon of water before the time wake up before noon. I’m just cranking to lots and lots of hydration. Then I usually work out around this time of day and the right after that, room protein shake then in the mid-afternoon I drinking a lot of water usually with about the hour after my shake and then I start really hydrating my body well again. And I like to do magnesium in the water. I have a product bringcome magnesium that I put on the water okay and ill drink that. I love to get that extra magnesium in. Uhm stay hydrated as much I do greens powder and water as well. And then the evening, were usually using some sort of healthy meat whether ts well caught salmon, chicken, turkey, duck, lamb, vicen, grass fed beef. Something along those lines. Lots of vegetables. I like to use a lo of grass fed butter. Uhm my vegetables, getting a lot of good fats so i use MCT oil on mymeat sometimes on my vegetables as well. Coz MCT oil turns in the ketones a lot faster than coconut oil or really anything else. And so put that on everything lots of herbs, lemon, apple cider vinegar all those super strategies that we talked about. Sometimes I do just big gigantic salad with some chicken breasts and MCT oil and olives on there or maybe avocado on there. So I’m always trying to get these good fats in and uhm- you know for me I think the biggest things sometimes, I’ll crave extra protein and so in my workout days; I usually increase my protein , my meat consumption a little bit on the evenings and now on workout days, I try to keep it a lot more moderate.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it. I’m kind of in a similar boat. I tend to do a lot of uh- butter coffee, MCT and collagen in the morning on days that I’m more stressed I will do uhm- eat a bigger breakfast that will add up some eggs, and bacon and grass fed all that good stuff. Tend to go like maybe 5 or 6 hours between meals. I got a desk treadmill so I walk about eleven miles per day. You know seeing patients, and then I like the bars and kettle bells so in between atient calls. Push-ups a feel your, kettle bells to seal you. So I tryna do a lot of unorganized exercise where its just like it’s sporadic term of my day. Lunch- I mean typically for lunch, I’ll take some tuna on top of a salad cut up an avocado use to mark primal dressing. You know , the Caesar dressings awesome now. I’m loving it. And then tonight we got Keto Burgers stand out. Mean, I get these from US Wellnes Meats. 55, 45 right? Buy protein 45 fat put that on the baddest spinach cut up some avocado. Tonight, I may go all out and have a glass of sparkle and wine. Typically have a low-sugar kind of demi-sec where you drive version of it. With one or just do a Kombucha instead of low sugar GT des Kombucha and then for dessert maybe a 90% dark chocolate.
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah I love it! I like Cavitas. I’m on Fiasec Cavitas ..
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh my freak just talked.
Dr. David Jockers: I’m in Cavita, one of my favorites. Think about lime and menthols such good carmenertives so good for the gut then we got the coconut water that’s fermented. you got more b vitamins, lowers sugar levels and i respond really really well on that. oftentimes at night we’ll do herbal tea. Like a nighty-night tea or something like that. uhm just getting more on those herbs. i think that’s something that you know there’s a lot of people that are teaching ketogenic diet but now whole lot more of emphasizing herbs and uhm i think that’s a missing component in our diet as getting using these herbal medicines.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: you enjoy a little bit on the same track men you were talking about all that lastly again. You made some great points like the herbal infusions the teas.. Also uhm the bom brought there and I think thats really huge and I think you call it serum soluble nutrients. I loved that, that worked!
Dr. David Jockers: Absolutely. Yeah Jordan is a good friend of mine so uh- we talk about all these stuff often.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah I hink he’s totally on track with that. Awesome. http://drjockers.com uhh- awesome blog, awesome YouTube. I check it out weekly then it gets lots some of great info- information. I’m happy you’re on the podcast. Any other knowledge bombs you wanna drop here before you exit.
Dr. David Jockers: You know I think we covered a lot. I think ultimately at the end of the day, uhm people often realize we’re striving for metabolic flexibility you know and so when somebody is real fatigue, real adrenal fatigue. Theyre very very poor metabolic flexibility okay. But ultimately the better your metabolic flexibility, this ability is watched between ketones and glucose and energy source, the better your quality of life is gonna be. The better your performance is gonna be. So uhm- so basically you know practitioners like you Dr. Justin and myself, that’s really our goal to our clients is. Hey, get them to the point where they are so metabolically flexible to where they can adapt to different nutritional practices and go low carb for a few weeks at a time or maybe even do a high carb week right and not have the delirious effects that come with that and being just able to adapt is so critical. Healthy cells are cells that can adapt. Unhealthy cells can’t adapt. And so as a whole as an organism we wanna be that adapt strong.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it and now if you’re stuck on a desert island, and yo can only bring one supplement with you what is it
Dr. David Jockers: For me its magnesium. Magnesium is like my magic bullet so from feeling a little bit low on energy? okay? – Magnesium. Following a sleep crate? Magnesium. For a grove good mental clarity? Magnesium. Magnesiums seems to be- especially magnesium of 3na that would respond best to that one. Crosses the blood brain barrier. helps to-its really like an adaptogenic herb, its really an adaptogen where it helps to balance out my stress hormones. I just feel great with that. And that’s something that in general if you’re stuck on a- on an island you may have access to things like coconuts and stuff like that but uh- you know chances are you just in general especially if I’m eating a lot of fruit uhm because I’m on the island. I probably gonna need a little bit more of magnesium.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally make sense plus said here. On an island men you’re probably stressed on act that magnesium that definitely help with constipation right. Love it! very good very good. Any closing thoughts we got your information out there Dr. David Jockers go to the site. you’ll also see the YouTube channel great recipes, your wife Angel’s rocking out of the park with those recipes, they got my wife checking them out too. Anything else Dr. Dave?
Dr. David Jockers: You know, I think that’s really is . I just want to thank you for having me on the show. And I just remind you again that Hey I’m a big fan of the show. So if you guys are listening to Dr. Justin here, people like myself and other health influencers, we tune in to Justin’s podcasts because he is always dropping nuggets and uh- I love your analogies and how you create things down so I really appreciate all the great work you’re doing
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well uh appreciate that Dr. Dave. Awesome! Well you have a great weekend on Multstein Dutch.
Dr. David Jockers: Alright you too Justin.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Alright take care!
References:
https://www.youtube.com/user/djockers
https://www.facebook.com/DrDavidJockers?ref=hl
Jimmy Moore – The Complete Guide to Fasting – Podcast #132
Dr. Justin Marchegiani welcomes his special guest, Jimmy Moore, in today’s podcast about fasting and nutrition. Listen to them as they engage in a very energizing and interesting discussion on how to do intermittent fasting for a therapeutic reason.
Learn about how fasting benefits and affects our bodies in many ways and be able to apply the guidelines involved in a successful fast. Get valuable information on supplements supporting the Ketogenic diet and know more about cholesterol issues, including the testing involved and its possible root cause.
In this episode, we cover: 
07:21 Fasting
11:40 Thyroid Function during fasting
18:43 MCT oil, Ketones, and other supplements
27:27 Ketones and Neurological Conditions
34:50 Lipid Panel: Cholesterol
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey there! It’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani. We have my good friend, Jimmy Moore. And one of the biggest podcasts on the Internet here. He is a—he’s one of the guys that I look to for inspiration, kinda how I MC kinda my podcast coz Jimmy is— does it so right. Jimmy, how you doing today?
Jimmy Moore: Hey! What’s up, Justin? I love how enthusiastic you get. We all have our radio boys when we come on.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.
Jimmy Moore: We’re just talking to each other then, “Hey, hey, guys we’re back here on the Justin Marchegiani show.”
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hahaha. Well I always love how you exit your podcast. You say the person’s name, you’d say, “His name is Jimmy Moore” And I love that exit. It was just so great.
Jimmy Moore: I still do that.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I love it. I love it. It’s so great. I’m gonna do it today, too, as a little tribute for you.
Jimmy Moore: That’s cool.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: But Jimmy, how have you been?
Jimmy Moore: I’ve been good, man. Just like us Tony before we came on the air. It’s just busy busy all the time and it’s the way I like it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent. I know you had a book that just came out recently on fasting. Let’s dig in. How’s that going? I know you did that book with Dr. Jason Fung.
Jimmy Moore: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Talking about fasting and how to do it therapeutically. Just kind of any listener that’s trying to get some more information on fasting, why should they get that book?
Jimmy Moore: Well, we wrote the complete guide to fasting, Dr. Fung and I, uhm— because when I was looking for a resource on doing some longer facet done some intermittent fast pretty naturally, when you’re ketogenic, you know it’s extraordinarily easy to intermittent fast. I mean, if you go longer than or—or shorter than eight hours without eating between meals, you’re not doing it right. So intermittent fasting was very easy for me and I was even finding that pushing it to say 36-ish hours which is basically an alternate day fast also was pretty easy. So I want to try to push the envelope a little bit and do these longer fast. Well I met Dr. Fung of all places in Cape Town, South Africa he and I shared
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow.
Jimmy Moore: — the stage together at a big low-carb conference that happen there a few years ago. And I went up to him after hearing his talk. I’d never heard of him before and he was talking about fasting as, “Oh, here’s somebody that does something about fasting.” And so, I said, “You know I’m looking for a good resource on doing some longer fast. What is out there?” And he said, “Nothing.”
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Alright. So we’re back. So the last question we were talking about the fasting book and you mention you did it with Dr. Jason Fung, so tell me about kind of how that started?
Jimmy Moore: Yes. So he when he and I decided we wanted to collaborate on a book, I decided to start fasting myself. Again, I’ve been doing some— some intermittent fast but I wanted to push the envelope and see, “Okay, let’s see how I do with a little bit longer fast— no, context here.” I used to think fasting was the stupidest thing in the world. Why would you purposely starve yourself? It just made no sense to me. But that was under the thinking that I was starving myself. Once I realized it’s not really starving yourself. You’re doing this for therapeutic reason. That’s when fasting started to make a little more sense, especially when it was spontaneously happening on an intermittent level. Really, all you’re doing is just extending it a little further than that to give your body the benefits that you’re looking for. So I did a—a goal in September 2015, to go 21 days in a row of fasting. Now the longest I’ve ever made, it was like 6 1/2 days. And that one, I told this uh—story in the book, The Complete Guide to Fasting, that I— I took communion on the seventh day of a fast. And I was planning on going seven days on that one and to communion that day at church, got home from church and you know what happened, Justin. I crashed so hard.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So hard.
Jimmy Moore: And so my blood sugar got down to low 50s which in and of itself isn’t a horrible thing when you have higher ketone levels.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.
Jimmy Moore: But I wasn’t testing blood ketones at that time. And I was definitely in hypoglycemia because I was so hungry, and I was just curled up in the fetal position. And my wife’s like, “Please eat something.” And I was like, “I’m four hours away.”
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh my gosh.
Jimmy Moore: I did in the beating uh—and—and breaking that fast, but that was kind of my horror story of fasting. So when I came to this one, I said, “Jason, will you kinda pay attention to me. I will not take communion this time. God will forgive me. Uh—and – and –
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So you’re thinking with the communion, it created like a reactive hypoglycemic spike? Is that what you’re thinking?
Jimmy Moore: It really did.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jimmy Moore: Because I had gone, like I said, over six days without eating.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow.
Jimmy Moore: Suddenly I introduce this in—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Even a tiny bit. Anybody that has ever had communion, its’ just a tiny little wafer and a tiny little cup of juice. Uh—I mean very tiny and just that little bit, Justin push me over the edge in a hypoglycemia. Now that wouldn’t happen under normal hospices uh— if I just taken that in—in a fed state.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly.
Jimmy Moore: But in a fully fasted state, uh— and my body just wasn’t ready for even that little bit of carbohydrate. So anyway, 21 days—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jimmy Moore: I attempted and September 2015, I made it 17 1/2 days in a row which was almost triple what I had done my longest before. So I was pretty happy about that. The only reason it ended was Christine and I were actually on vacation and I was having a good time. And that was stress and I found that stress for me as a very insulin resistant man, hits me harder probably the most people. And so, I couldn’t continue with the fast. Now some people said, “Well fasting itself is a stress and it can be early. But I think the longer you do it, the longer you stay on it, you actually find that it’s very sustainable beyond the first three days. The first three days can be pretty tough and we talk very openly about that. I definitely tell people day two is gonna really suck, worse than anything. But if you get through day two, it’s nirvana after that.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Awesome. Can you step uh—half a step to your right. Perfect. Now I got your whole beautiful face in there. Awesome. Love it.
Jimmy Moore: I’m trying to balance where I’m in. I ‘m in my bedroom so it’s like I –I’m like we’re doing st—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You look perfect right there.
Jimmy Moore: So the question I have for you is, what was the big difference between being able to go 30 days versus 7? I know the reactive hypoglycemia thing but it sounds like you’re at 7. Seven so, long way from 30. What was the different things that Dr. Fung was uh—coaching you on that was helping?
Jimmy Moore: I never actually made it 30 days. Uh—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay.
Jimmy Moore: The longest I’ve done is 28 days in January last year.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani Wow.
Jimmy Moore: 28 out of the 31 days uh—so wasn’t 28 in a row, but it was 28 of the 31. Again, travel rears it— reared it its ugly head and uh—kick me in the tail. Christine had to make uh— emergency trip to go see her family in Virginia. So I hop in the car and what does the stomach start doing? (growl sound) Great.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, man.
Jimmy Moore: So I end the fast. But that—that—But that’s self-awareness.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jimmy Moore: You gotta know. You got fit fasting within your life. And so if life happens, and life happen that day, and of course we had to drive home from that. When life happens, you just have to deal with it and not fight back. Uh— listen to your body and I’m sure you preach this pretty often to your listeners, listen to your body and pay attention and respond accordingly. Don’t fight those signals that tell you something’s wrong.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I totally agree. Now when you mentioned not fat—not eating for 28 days, so what does that look like? Is it just simple as you’re just not eating? Or are there certain things that you’re doing with hydration or minerals?
Jimmy Moore: Great question.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: What else is there?
Jimmy Moore: Yes. So when I first started doing these longer fast, Justin, I thought, “Okay, I’m going to need something.” Because anybody that knows my history, you know, really eating literally all the time. Uh— it’s kind of funny to think, “Oh, not eating at all? What—what?” So, I decided I’m going to do it with bone broth, with some sea salt so that gives you a little bit of uh—nutrition there—minimal.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jimmy Moore: Coz I’m only having a cup or two a day and this may be like 80 calories for 2 cups of bone broth and really minimal nutrition. I also did a little bit of Kombucha but I’ve since cut that out. I found it was actually tearing my gut up pretty bad. Because I thought that I would need it to preserve gut health during the fast. What I’ve found is my gut health has actually done extraordinarily well without the Kombucha because of the fasting. And so we definitely into that coz I know that’s kinda your heart and soul, too.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jimmy Moore: You talk on gut health. So uhm— so I did that and of course, as you mentioned, hydration, hydration, hydration. I didn’t really count how much water I was drinking but I was drinking quite a bit of water. And— and the interesting thing is people sometimes they will just do water only. I would say do salt water in there as well.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.
Jimmy Moore: Because that helps to balance out the electrolytes and if you’re using something like pink Himalayan sea salt, you’re getting those trace minerals of the potassium and—and the other things that are gonna keep your electrolytes in balance. That’s a concern a lot of medical professionals have about these longer fast, is where do you get your electrolytes? That’s how you can balance that out. And I’m a big fan, so was Dr. Fung of, kinda adding in that salt from time to time as well.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I think when you’re under stress and you’re in a stress response, one of the big things that happens is that hormone aldosterone can go loaded and that cause you to pee out a lot your minerals.
Jimmy Moore: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So it that sounds like adding in the extra minerals, electrolytes, and also some—some little bit of amino acids in there, really made a difference for you.
Jimmy Moore: And speaking of elimination—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jimmy Moore: You wanna get down and dirty.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh yeah, let’s hear it.
Jimmy Moore: So you actually do pee quite a bit, and—and that’s natural especially if you’re coming from a non-ketogenic state. You’re suddenly flooding your body with ketones by not eating anything. And so, when that happens, all the glycogen? Pheww— right outta you. And so what happens? You pee your brains out. And even if you’ve been ketogenic, you’re gonna have that as well. And those are kinda gross, but it’s real life, people. So here we go—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s cool. Keeping it real.
Jimmy Moore: But then the thing that come—comes out the other end, though, that’s the most interesting thing to me. Coz you think, okay, after a few days you’ve not eaten, all that’s gone. Uh-uh— I’ve gone really long times without eating and by day 12, day 15, you’re still seeing stuff come out the back side. And it—it freaked me out coz I’m going, “What else is in there?” It—it just it’s amazing we don’t realize just how much gunk is still in there. And you can definitely explain maybe why that stuff’s still in there that deep into a fast when you’re drinking plenty of water every day, you’re getting adequate salt which would ostensibly make things move along pretty—pretty good as well. Why would there be stuff still in there, 12, 15 days later?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, I think some of that, too, is if you look at the composition of your stool, half of it is gonna be bacteria-based. So It just could be bacteria that’s replicating in the gut just kinda having this kind of passing its lifecycle. That could be one aspect.
Jimmy Moore: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s definitely not the fibers in the food aspect.
Jimmy Moore: No.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That part is not there. But the other half of your stool is gonna be the bacteria so that make sense. So that’s good that you are having regularity there.
Jimmy Moore: Oh, yeah. Definitely regularity. I would say the the—the uhm—the normality of the stool was gone by day 5. In other words, it was all kinda soupy.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jimmy Moore: After day five. And–and from what you just said that make sense.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Totally. Now the big concern that I have with patients—coz I have a lot of patient with blood sugar issues and adrenal issues—is that when you–you cut calories, you know, one of the big things you’ll see in the research is— just type in, “hypocaloric diet” and “low thyroid” or “low T3”
Jimmy Moore: Yes.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani:– or “triiodothyronine” is we see the thyroid kinda down regulate. We see the body temp go down. We see the reverse T3 go up. We see the free and total T3 go down. What did you evaluate your thyroid function during the fast and all?
Jimmy Moore: Here’s the most exciting part I think about fasting. When you’re doing it deliberately as a therapeutic uh—resource, and let me give the caveat, I don’t think everybody needs to do really long fast.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.
Jimmy Moore: I think most people probably could get most of the benefits of fasting just from doing uh— like a 16-8 or 18-6 type of—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jimmy Moore: —fast. If you did that, I think probably most of the population would do well. This is for those people that are the type II diabetic that are the very insulin resistant that do have a lot of obesity that they want to try to deal with. Uhm—this is uh— who it’s for. Now you mention hypocaloric diets. Here is the thing. Hypo caloric diets can be very detrimental to you. So let’s say, 5,6,700 calorie a day type of diets. That will actually slow your metabolism down. People worry about, “Oh, I’m gonna ruin my metabolism. It’s gonna slow —
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.
Jimmy Moore: —my basal metabolic rate.” And all this, yada, yada, yada that you hear. And the research definitely bears it out. We’ve seen it with the biggest loser contestants.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.
Jimmy Moore: Here’s the thing. When you eat no calories at all, which I’m defining as that bone broth and the Kombucha, anything like less than maybe a couple hundred calories, that actually is a far different creature than a hypocaloric state of 5,6,700 calories. Fasting actually revs up your metabolism and gives you a lot of health benefits and impacts those hormones in a different way than even eating just a little bit which blows people’s minds. So thinking, “If I just eat a little bit, then that’s better than not eating at all.” No. Actually it’s a lot better to not eat anything at all again defined as 200 calories—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting. Yeah.
Jimmy Moore: — than to have even a little bit calories. And your body thinks it starving and it’s gonna hold on to everything, whereas fasting releases it all and lets this cascade of really cool hormonal effects are to happen.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting. Now what about people that have blood sugar issue, would they tend to go hypoglycemic? How do you address that on —when you’re going to do a fast?
Jimmy Moore: So if there’s concerns about that, obviously keep a very close eye on that and obviously this should go without saying, let uhm— medical professional follow you.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jimmy Moore: —while you’re going through this. Uhm— so don’t willy-nilly do a fast on your own especially if you have known issues like hypoglycemia. But what we’ve seen and what Dr. Fung has seen— he seen well over 1000 patients in his intensive dietary management plan uh— in Toronto, Ontario Canada and he actually has had some hypoglycemic patients come on and it actually regulates their hypoglycemia. So it doesn’t mean that their blood sugar doesn’t go down —it does. When you fast, it goes down. But the cool thing is, you have a corresponding rise in the blood ketones.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Ketones.
Jimmy Moore: — which then steps in the place of that. So that yes, you have lower levels of blood sugar, but it— but you’re completely asymptomatic of hypoglycemia.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Now what do you think about adding in synthetic ketones while doing the fast. Like the betahydroxy butyrate calcium salts. Are you concerned that if you do that while you fast, you may go up into that ketoacidosis rate? What’s your experience there?
Jimmy Moore: So I have used it uh— in the early days and I would say, use it for the first maybe two, maybe three days, but Justin, by the time you get today 3-4, you’re seeing betahydroxy butyrate levels of 4,5,6 very easily without exogenous ketones. So I would say, it’s probably a good idea in those first couple days especially day 2 where it’s hell—haha—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Tough to cravings.
Jimmy Moore: —to take it then for that purpose to kinda get through that period coz you’ll feel the effects that you’re in the fully fasted state because of the extra ketones. But then once your ketones naturally go up on their own, you can back off and completely eliminate those exogenous ketones. So I think as a beginning uh —part of the fast, absolutely. As you go higher, know and—I— I don’t think ketoacidosis would be a concern because you have to get extraordinarily high level—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 25, right? 20’ish—
Jimmy Moore: of blood ketones. Yeah. 20+ milli molar and I think the highest I’ve ever seen, and this was without exogenous ketones, was 7.6 Very naturally, again, it was early on when I started keto and I started kinda really doing this. Your body levels out over time, but blood sugar at the same time as 7.6 was like in the 50’s and so I wasn’t worried about it in the context of a lower blood glucose level. And if you’re fasting, your blood glucose level is gone drop like a rock.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it. Okay. And I’ve seen a lot of people do the therapeutic fasting with severe insulin resistance. It can be a game changer of turning that insulin resistance around right away.
Jimmy Moore: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And get them back on, you know, the right type of guy whether it’s a paleo, low-carbish, you know—
Jimmy Moore: Sure.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 60 carb, 20 protein, 10—10—or 20 protein uh—10 carb. Whatever that macro rain—
Jimmy Moore: Right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You figure it out with your clinician and work on that. I think it’s a great starting point. My issue is with the low-calorie. I always see a lot of patients just automatically they tend to go lower calorie to begin with. And it’s hard to see if their fatigue is from a low-calorie issue.
Jimmy Moore: Yes.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: —or adrenal, thyroid issue. And the calories you can be driving all of the above.
Jimmy Moore: It could be both exactly where the one is feeding it to the other. And— and I do a Thursday podcast called, “Keto Talk” and my cohost on that one is a practitioner out of Arizona, Dr. Adam Nally and he sees 10, 15,000 patients a year. And so he’s seen literally everything come through the office and he says, “The biggest issue that he sees time and time and time again especially among women is they’re not eating enough calories when they go keto.” And so you gotta have adequate calories or it’s just a moot point.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Definitely the fasting is therapeutic coz we— we need nutrition to run our body and we won’t be getting those nutrients in a fasting state. But when will be doing some severe uh —U-turns with our physiology when it comes to insulin resistance for sure.
Jimmy Moore: Absolutely. That’s why you do it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Also, I had a little flashback when you’re talking about the constipation thing.
Jimmy Moore: Uh-oh.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I flashback to one of your podcast a few years back when I— you are interviewing— not Ornish, when uh — Mc Dougall.
Jimmy Moore: Yes.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And he kept on referring you to Mr. Moore—
Jimmy Moore: Ho-ho—how’s your constipation, he told me.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. He kept on saying, “How’s your constipation, Mr. Moore?” “How is it?” So I kept on having those flashbacks there. That was an excellent interview that I think uh —everyone should partake in. It was just a uhm—amazing.
Jimmy Moore: It was fun. Hahaha—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: —just you showing your patience on being able to stay calm. That was unbelievable. You’re a saint.
Jimmy Moore: What’s funny is behind the scenes, my wife could hear what was going on.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jimmy Moore: She heard it very quickly took a turn for the worse. And she— I mean I had on mute and she was like, “Don’t let him run over you.” I’m like, “I got this—I got this.” Hahaha—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That was probably one of the podcast— one of the best podcast that I’ve ever seen. It was great. Love it.
Jimmy Moore: You gotta have fun in podcasting and sometimes talk to people that you don’t agree with and they can hang themselves.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. Well, we’ll put that topic behind us. Uhm— literally and figuratively.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So you—
Jimmy Moore: See ya.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I know. Next— what’s your experience using MCT oil or other types of ketone precursors to help to kinda push yourself into a higher level of ketosis?
Jimmy Moore: Yeah. I think they’re great adjuncts. Like we said a moment ago—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jimmy Moore: —with the exogenous ketones in the beginning of a fast, I think anything that’s gonna give you even a psychological boost, I know that physiologically you should be getting a boost in your ketones because MCT is a precursor to that. But I think anything that’s gonna make you feel better about what you’re doing and how you’re fueling your body and—and the end goal of—of feeling better and getting healthier, is a good thing. So just be careful if you do add any of these products like MCT oil, specifically. I remember first time I was gonna—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Loose stools.
Jimmy Moore: —two big tablespoons full of this stuff—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, yeah.
Jimmy Moore: And two hours later, I can’t get off the pot. So—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hahaha—
Jimmy Moore: Hahaha—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it.
Jimmy Moore: So you gotta—It’s beware at that point and—and be prudent about it. Obviously, listen to podcasts like these. Uh— it’s gonna help you, you uhm—you know, and read up before you kinda jump full-fledged. I think sometimes a little bit of knowledge is dangerous, Justin. Because people think, “Oh well, I can do this on my own.” And you probably should not do it on your own.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I hundred percent agree. Now you mentioned that certain people the fasting may not be the best thing for, especially when there’s a lot of active stress.
Jimmy Moore: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And is that because of the stress hormones affecting blood sugar and insulin levels?
Jimmy Moore: Blood sugar and just how you feel in general. I— I think all of those things uhm— it’s just not a good idea. I mean obviously, if you’re malnourished and underweight, you shouldn’t be fasting either coz you’re gonna lose weight. Uhm— if you’re pregnant, obviously you should not be uh— fasting because you’re basically trying to build a little one inside you.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.
Jimmy Moore: You’re going to needing to, you know, feed you and that baby. Uhm —I think if someone comes from an eating disorder, like uh—anorexia or bulimia, get that under control first. Uhm— and just— and children. If you’re under age, and you’re still developing and growing, probably not a good idea to fast unless the only caveat I’d give to the children is unless they’re very severely—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jimmy Moore: — obese and diabetic and this is something that could be therapeutic for them. But again, in general, children probably should not be fasting.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it. Would you say if you also have like an active thyroid or adrenal issue, would you say get that under control before trying that?
Jimmy Moore: Yeah. You definitely want to get those things under control. Uh— it might help those things, it might— but I think getting those under control through nutrition first, and then as an adjunct in the process of your healing, adding in a few times a fasting just to see how you do, is definitely there is no downside to trying it uh —a time or two, just to see how it impacts you. And— and that’s the theme song, we say again and again with what I like to refer to as the other “F word”.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Nice.
Jimmy Moore: With fasting is you just gotta try it. And if it works for you, great; If doesn’t work for you, great. Move on back to your Paleo diet, your ketogenic diet and be happy with where you are.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it. And I spoke at 2015 low-carb cruise, and one of the things I talked about was thyroid function and insulin resistance. So, if you are insulin resistant, that can definitely affect thyroid function. And fasting may be a good short-term modality to help get that insulin resistance which would thus, help with thyroid T4 to T3 conversion, too.
Jimmy Moore: And see, it’s all related.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jimmy Moore: People like to say, “Well, I have uh— heart disease, I have diabetes, I have cancer.” Guess what guys, they’re all metabolic diseases, they’re all cut from the same cloth. Uh— thyroid disease, the same thing. They are all cut from the exact same cloth and—and knowing that, keeps you so much more knowledge and power than probably most medical professionals.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally, 100% agree with that. So looking at some of the supplements that you’re using, I know you’ve up with your own line with Dr. Adam Nally there on your Keto podcast.
Jimmy Moore: Yup.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Let’s talk about some of the—the core or the big three so to speak. Uhm—what are those and then where do you—where do you stand on synthetic ketones, too?
Jimmy Moore: So uh— big three in terms of what the big uhm— supplements are?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Exactly. What are those big three supplements that you’re doing?
Jimmy Moore: The big three—like—haha
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Haha—
Jimmy Moore: We have two uh—two products in the line. Currently, one is multivitamin that’s very specifically uh —targeted to people on a ketogenic diet. We call it Keto Essentials. And we literally load that bad boy up with all kind of stuff uhm —and so in six pills, you get like all the vitamin D that most people would need. I believe we have 2000 IU of the vitamin D in there. We have biotin. We have uh—just a lot of things, K2, that you don’t usually see in a lot of multivitamins. You definitely can’t find this formulation in like uh— vitamin shop or anything like that. So uh— we worked hard and this is one that Dr. Nally actually uses specifically with his patients that he puts on a which is like 99% of the people that come through his door, he puts on a ketogenic diet. And then uh— uh—the other one is blood sugar tends to be an issue a lot of people deal with. And so Berberine Plus is the name of the product that we came out with there and it’s for Berberine, Banaba leaf and chromium all known to help lower and modulate your blood sugar levels. And the cool thing about that one is when you lower blood sugar, guess what also happens, you raise in the context of a low-carb, high-fat diet, you raise ketone levels. And so it helps you get into ketosis. Uhm— I would think that fish oil probably is a third one that’s really essential work we’re—we’re kinda looking into what we can do from an omega-3 standpoint. But I think getting that right balance of Omega 3’s is so essential. I personally just love cod liver oil.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it.
Jimmy Moore: And use it pretty often and definitely high quality pharmaceutical grade. Don’t buy the ones that are, you know, Walgreens or whatever.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely.
Jimmy Moore: No offense but just they’re just—they’re rancid, they’re nasty.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.
Jimmy Moore: And—and when you fishy burp, that’s a really bad sign—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.
Jimmy Moore: that you got a bad one.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.
Jimmy Moore: So— and then you asked about exogenous ketones, I’m still kind of— I’m still kind of filling that out because there’s a lot of companies out there really trying to get on this bandwagon with exogenous ketones. Uh— I think I was telling you before I came in the air, I don’t like to way some of them are being marketed.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jimmy Moore: Into ketosis within 45 minutes or less—No, you don’t.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jimmy Moore: You get ketones in your blood system.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.
Jimmy Moore: But you’re not in ketosis. You’re not keto adapted and then some of the other marketing is like, “Well, eat all the carbs you want, just take exogenous ketones and you’re in ketosis.” I’m like “No. No. There’s some dangerous implications there where you’re raising your blood sugar with these carbs you’re eating and then suddenly you’re raising blood keto levels. That would be a concern for ketoacidosis at some point if you go overboard.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Big time.
Jimmy Moore: So I’m very leery about this, Justin. And very open about it I do think exogenous ketones have a role in the Keto community where people that are struggling may be just starting off and they want to kinda feel some of the effects of having ketones in their blood system. This will do that for them and again, a psychological effect of, “Oh, well I already have ketones in my system, now it motivates me to go do it endogenously while I’m doing it exogenously. I think that can be—that can be a good use for them. But just these people that are pushing it and eat your carbs and have ketones at the same time, no— don’t do this. Don’t do that anymore.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I totally agree. I see a lot of these companies. They do that and they don’t really emphasize the dietary aspect of pus your physiology into nutritional ketosis by making the right diet and lifestyle changes. They’re just like “Hey, let’s forget that let’s just take this magic pill and get in the ketosis.” But we’re saying maybe do both. If you do some of that and then you make the diet changes than you can have a really beneficial effect.
Jimmy Moore: Yeah and unfortunately, I think a lot of these companies are just in it for the book.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jimmy Moore: For the trend and, you know, Keto is very, very hot right now. I wrote Keto Clarity three years ago, and it’s still under a 1000 on Amazon. It just blows my mind how help long that book is just lasted. But it’s because so many people are truly interested and I’d— I don’t want anybody to get confused that Keto— exogenous ketones is anything close to being exactly the same as endogenous doing it through a low-carb, moderate protein, high-fat diet.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it. And what’s your take using endogenous ketones for like neurological disorders? Whether it’s epilepsy or whether it’s Parkinson’s or neurological conditions. What’s your experience with that did?
Jimmy Moore: Did you say endogenous or exogenous?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhm— I’m sorry I would be talking about exogenous.
Jimmy Moore: Okay.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So extra ketones. So let’s assume—
Jimmy Moore: Coz I heard you say endogenous—Wait a minute, uh—eat low carb and then—haha—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So endogenous is what’s happening inside. That’s the low-carb—
Jimmy Moore: Yes.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: —that moderate protein diet—
Jimmy Moore: Right. Right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And then exogenous what we’re putting into our bodies. So what’s your take with that with some of those neurological conditions?
Jimmy Moore: Oh my goodness. I think these are the people that that was made for that. O-o—other than like the Navy Seals which I know Dominique D’ Agostino’s been kind of leading the way of creating these things for the Navy Seals to kind of help, you know, enhance their mental performance.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jimmy Moore: While they’re out there. And plus they do a lot of fasting as well.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.
Jimmy Moore: So they do a lot of the endogenous ketones that way. So, yeah. Absolutely. These are the very people that I think they’re trying to reach this really cool ratio of glucose to— to ketone and if they’re doing it endogenously and—and working voraciously even more so than just someone just trying to heal insulin resistance, they’re going upwards 85-90% fat and then the rest is protein, carb. They’re doing really hardcore trying to get those ketone levels up for a therapeutic purpose. So don’t misunderstand me as, “Oh, I’m gonna go eat 90% fat. Jimmy Moore said it was okay.” No, I didn’t. For the purposes of Parkinson’s and—and some of the things that you mention, I think it, along with exogenous ketones, can be very uh —very therapeutic for those people because quite frankly, the brain— your fat head, by the way, Justin—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jimmy Moore: And so am I. We all are. We’re all like we have— was at 70% fat—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.
Jimmy Moore: —in our brains. And there are some glucose uh— functions in the brain but your body makes all the glucose you need endogenously. So you don’t have to eat, you know, uh— extra glucose in order to get it into the brain. So the brain’s gonna be fine. The brain’s actually going to be more than fine. It’s gonna be optimal when you start eating low-carb, moderate protein, high-fat. And then adding in these exogenous ketones, the brain just goes wild when you’re in a ketogenic state.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. And you talked about brain here just one second ago. Now we are— we are 70% you know, fat in the brain. Uh— Tom —Tom Naughton uh— his video, “Fat Head” a few years back.
Jimmy Moore: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It was just absolutely great. It was really emphasizing that. But in our brain, right? We look at some of the enzymes that are active in our brain. There’s one enzyme called insulin degrading enzyme. And that enzyme’s really unique because that enzyme’s also the enzyme that mops up insulin and also mops up plaque. So imagine someone spilled a whole bunch of insulin on your floor, right? And yet Mop comes in, and mops up that insulin but there’s some plaque on the other side of the floor because the mop’s so saturated it can’t mop up the plaques. In other words, that mop can only mop up so much gunk in the brain. The more insulin that’s there from the excess sugar and carbs, you have less of that mop’s utilization for the plaque. And that’s part of the mechanism of Alzheimer’s and some of these Dementia brain conditions.
Jimmy Moore: Alright. I wanna see an illustration of that on your website now. So—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Haha—
Jimmy Moore: The mop that’s dripping with insulin can’t get the plaque—Haha—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’m gonna do it. I’m gonna do it. I’m gonna do a chalk talk later this week. You got it.
Jimmy Moore: Cool.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It will be uh —dedicated to you, Jimmy.
Jimmy Moore: Cool. There you go.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So we talked about the insulin piece, that’s important. What’s been your experience with fasting or using very— like you know, 200-500 calorie diets? And I know you said below 200. I had some experience using hCG. Some of the hCG protocols—
Jimmy Moore: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: The Human Chorionic Gonadotropin. And using that to basically tap into your body secure fat sources and kinda having this appestat, you know, the appestacin or the brain kinda re-regulating that. What’s been your experience with that, if you have any?
Jimmy Moore: Can I be honest about hCG?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jimmy Moore: I’m extraordinarily skeptical uhm— I know it’s helped a lot of people actually uh —know a lot of patients that have gone through that. I have not personally done that. Uhm— and I think the thing that scares me the most about it and maybe you can acquiesce my fear, is the— is the very, very low calorie. I think I find more benefit from being under the 200 than being at 500 with hCG. And it could just be my naïveté and not knowing enough about it, but I’m— I’m just extraordinarily concerned anybody that goes through that. Because once you go through the round of hCG and you go back to eating somewhat normally again, maybe a ketogenic diet, I haven’t really seen anybody continue to sustain the benefits from that. So that would be my only caveat concern about this.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I’ve done it with a couple dozen patients. I’ve done it myself personally. My wife tried it a few times as well. And it has worked profoundly if you do it right.
Jimmy Moore: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Couple of caveats, there’s a lot of homeopathic’s out there— homeopathic drops—
Jimmy Moore: Yes.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Don’t recommend that. If you do an hCG, you should do it the injection—
Jimmy Moore: You do the injection.Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You should do the injection.
Jimmy Moore: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And the easy way to do it as you should know because if you get a pregnancy test, you should test positive. It’s a great way to freak out your husband, by the way. Okay.
Jimmy Moore: Test positive— Will a guy test positive for pregnancy as well?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I —I think they will because that’s still gonna spill out—some of it will spill out in the urine.
Jimmy Moore: I so wanna do that to freak out Christine.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hahaha—
Jimmy Moore: Hahaha—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: But I tried it with a sublingual and I tried it with a homeopathic—
Jimmy Moore: Yes.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You will not get a positive pregnancy test. And again, my wife has tried it, not me. I’ve done the injection but I haven’t tried it yet.
Jimmy Moore: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: But I’ve seen it work phenomenal. It took her about one year to gain the weight back.
Jimmy Moore: Wow.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And she felt great. Going— that— In the first five days was tough, but you are able to keep it off. And again, you know ,the quick—the key is what do you go back to?
Jimmy Moore: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You go back to a really good diet.
Jimmy Moore: That’s right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: She’s kind of a Paleo, low-carb.
Jimmy Moore: Sure.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s where she—she lives. Uhm— but again, the key is don’t go back to a crappy diet. But the science behind that is the hCG is tricking the body. And this makes sense more with the female physiology.
Jimmy Moore: Right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Not so much the male. You’re tricking the body that you are pregnant and your body is tapping into secure fat stores coz it’s trying to pull calories out so the baby can be nourished and fed. So the whole idea is you’re tapping into those secure fat stores. That’s the stores you normally wouldn’t tap into if that hormonal level wasn’t there. And there’s been a study at __was the British endocrinologist—
Jimmy Moore: Right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: —that came up with this in the 60’s.
Jimmy Moore: Right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: There’s a study in the Lancet where you have two group: one without the hCG, low-calorie diet; one with the hCG. And the group with the hCG loss more calories and also kept it off longer as well. So just kinda—that’s from my experience and pretty good.
Jimmy Moore: Yeah. I’ve interviewed a few people about hCG on the “Livin La Vida Low Carb Show” over the years. So I’m curious the 500 calories is key. You’ve gotta keep it down so basically you don’t overfeed your body because you’re tapping into the body fat stores to make up for the rest of calories that you need. Is that the theory?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes and no. I— I’ve modified it over the years where I still boost the calories up a little bit more upto —
Jimmy Moore: You do. Okay.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: — thousand. I played around with that coz you still get—
Jimmy Moore: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: —similar results. And also adding in— they recommend no fats but the only exception is been for me is MCT Oil.
Jimmy Moore: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And I find it boost up the ketones the more helps with the appetite.
Jimmy Moore: I would be willing to try a 1000 calorie one with the hCG injections that— that sounds a little more prudent. I think the 500 was what just freak me out. Every time I saw that it—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’ve had so many good experiences with it with people that already have healthy diets, healthy everything.
Jimmy Moore: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And that’s like my go to with patients that are like at their wits end with their diet. Everything else is right— exercise, lifestyle, supplements, gut. That’s kind of my last go to. So I’d be curious to see your— your take on that.
Jimmy Moore: Yeah maybe will give it a go.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I love it. Very cool. So we talked about the ketone, we talked about some of the supplements which I think are really good. Now we talk about you— you talked about it before in Keto clarity kinda looking at your lipid panel Can we talk more about lipids when you’re— when someone’s reading their lipid panel, is there cut off for you? With your cholesterol so high that they should worry at all? What does that look like for you?
Jimmy Moore: Total cholesterol is that you’re referring to?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Total cholesterol. Correct.
Jimmy Moore: Yes. So I was just talking to this lady that was going in at the mail place I’d take books every day to the mail and this lady was there, and I don’t know how it came out, but her —her total cholesterol she just shared it with me. I guess she knew what I did for a living. And so, you have 620 total cholesterol and I’m like, “Okay, that’s high. I’m not really worried about total cholesterol in general, but that’s really, really high.” And so I said uhm— “So usually when your blood lipids are that high, do you have, you know, something else going on? Do you have like maybe infections in your teeth or something?” She’s like, “Oh, yeah.” and she pulls out the bottom of her teeth.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Ohh— Oh, man.
Jimmy Moore: She had six all pulled out that— that probably had infections in there from root canals that she’s had done. And this was the bad part. This was the part that just broke my heart, Justin. She just spent over $10,000 mercury amalgam galore all in her teeth. And I’m going, “I’m sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but that’s why your blood cholesterol has gone up so extraordinarily high.” So I think in the context of knowing why it’s high, it does matter. Uh—but it’s not the high number, I told her. I said, “You should be very thankful that you have that very high cholesterol because that’s the only thing that’s saving you from dying right now because of the inflammation.” And so it kinda startled her. “I just spend all this money” and like, “I know but total cholesterol can be an interesting marker if it starts to go up because it should clue you when something is going on somewhere in the body and it’s usually an inflammatory response somewhere. And teeth is a big one for a lot of people. I actually have four root canals done when I was in my early 20s, mercury amalgams.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Argh—
Jimmy Moore: And 2013, actually wrote a book, “Cholesterol Clarity” and an in preparation for that book, I thought well, I learned that infections in your teeth can be a big player in your total cholesterol. So I went and got them all cleaned up. I went to a holistic dentist down the road from here, he took all the mercury amalgam— amalgams and put good stuff in there and he cleaned up all of the root canals and the infections that had taken place. I can literally taste the infection that’s how bad it was.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh—
Jimmy Moore: So he cleaned all that up, and Justin, and in one year, my total cholesterol jumped a 100 points just from doing that. No other changes, just from doing that. And so it can be uh—uh —kinda your first telltale sign something serious might be going on. So that’s the only weight that I really give total cholesterol. I think looking at triglyceride – HDL ratio gives you a whole lot better indication.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.
Jimmy Moore: You know, any, maybe necessarily cardiovascular issues uh—and NHS CRP to kinda see you like the inflammatory response. There’s a lot of inflammatory uh —numbers I know that you run.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jimmy Moore: Uhm—in—in your office. And so I think cholesterol helps to a degree, but not to the degree that most mainstream medical professionals think it does.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think you’re a hundred percent right. Anytime I see like, you know, over—over mid 300 cholesterol, the first thing I always go to rule out is make sure it’s not a hypercholesterolemia issue with it.
Jimmy Moore: Right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s just a genetic issue with the—
Jimmy Moore: Right. And I had that tested, by the way. I have a 5% chance that I have familiar hypercholesterolemia which is, no, I don’t.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right. Exactly.
Jimmy Moore: And that—And then it lead to—“Hey, maybe there’s something— oh yeah, had all these root canals, I had the mercury and that— that was the thing.” And now my— my blood sugars uh — or blood sugar — blood cholesterol is still pretty high. It’s in the 200’s but that’s not abnormal.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: No, that’s not an issue at all.
Jimmy Moore: And we can talk about the context of uh— of a ketogenic diet, that’s not abnormal.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I don’t worry until they’re into the mid 300’s.
Jimmy Moore: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: But any than that
Jimmy Moore: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: —to—where’s the HDL—where’s the HDL at?
Jimmy Moore: Yes.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Just curious.
Jimmy Moore: Yeah. HDL 75.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s beautiful.
Jimmy Moore: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So your ratio right there still under—It’s still under 4. That’s still beautiful. And at 3 ½, you have the risk factor.
Jimmy Moore: And—and 360, so yeah, exactly.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s less than 1. That’s beautiful.
Jimmy Moore: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I don’t have an issue with that. But uh— you know, but if there is an issue, we’ll run the LDR receptor, the P—PCKS9 test, look at the genetic markers there and if those aren’t there, we’re doing all the things that you mentioned. Also looking at thyroid function.
Jimmy Moore: Yes.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Because low thyroid function cause— can cause—
Jimmy Moore: Will raise cholesterol—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: to creep up.
Jimmy Moore: Yup. Do you run an NMR at all?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhm— Yeah. I do run an NMR. I was using the VAP before.
Jimmy Moore: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: But then after they got shut down.
Jimmy Moore: Yes.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So I’ve been doing more of the NMR to look at the LDL number.
Jimmy Moore: NMR is like the only game in town now. HDL Labs is gone now, and VAP is gone.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: How about—how about the Cardiac IQ, is that still there?
Jimmy Moore: Yeah, it is. But I think NMR has a little more prominence.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.
Jimmy Moore: It’s got legs coz they’re like only game in the— in the subfraction game, so to speak. That I think more and more doctors are accepting that one. Although I will tell you my own medical doctor just down the road from here in South Carolina, he stopped running them. And I’m going, “Can I please have an NMR run coz I want to keep around small dense LDL particles” “Well, you’re gotta have pay for it out-of-pocket.” So insurance won’t even pay for it anymore.
They don’t have a code for it anymore at my local doctors office. So I run it on my own anyway I can— I can do it NMR for about— about 50 and done and done. And in that way, I know where I am.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. That’s so smart. And again, I’m imagining the main reason why they’re not running it is because there’s no modality that they can do to change it.
Jimmy Moore: Well, they don’t know what to do with it. That—mainstream medicine they even run the standard lipid panel. They don’t know what to do with it. So that— that’s we’re getting deep into an issue with the mainstream medical system. They run so many numbers that they just don’t know what to do with it. “Okay, you’re normal.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jimmy Moore: And it’s like normal of what?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: What?
Jimmy Moore: Sick people.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Exactly. And also the fact that uhm— also when you’re looking at those test, typically the prescriptions gonna be a statin.
Jimmy Moore: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: The statin won’t touch particle size and won’t touch LDL number per se.
Jimmy Moore: Right. Well kudos to this uh— this postal lady coz she said, “They tried to put me on this medicine. I told them, I ain’t taking that ever.” It’s like, “You go girl.” Uh—so she was—she was really— do have a fasting story regarding uh—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jimmy Moore: —cholesterol when I did that September 2015 fast, 17 ½ days, I tested all of my blood markers uh —cholesterol before and then did it after. Do you know when that 17 ½ days my total cholesterol dropped a hundred points. And my LDL-P which was on the NMR like profile test, it dropped a thousand points.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Whoa.
Jimmy Moore: And small LDL was pretty low already but it even dropped another hundred or so points. Uhm— triglycerides obviously went down as well. HDL slightly went down which you’re not eating food, that make sense coz—since dietary fat tends to help your HDL go up. I wasn’t eating anything so uh— really interesting markers. And then the uh— really advanced lipid marker lipoprotein little-a actually was in the 400’s. I’ve always had really high lipoprotein little-a, like 423, and it dropped down to like 130 in 17 ½ days.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow.
Jimmy Moore: Nothing moves that. No drug moves your numbers that quickly. So uh— I was pretty impressed by the— just the therapeutic fasting. Just that little bit of fasting how profound it move those cholesterol numbers.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: What If you’re someone that was going to their conventional position. Could just fasting for a day or two make— move the needle in the right direction so you’d be out of that danger zone?
Jimmy Moore: You know I didn’t test after a couple days. That— this will be a fun test to do.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jimmy Moore: Like uh— I like do daily NMR’s or whatever—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jimmy Moore: I just see when that— that dramatic shift takes place. I don’t think it would in that very short amount of time.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.
Jimmy Moore: Uh—I know some people they try to get like good health insurance or life insurance policies based on the cholesterol numbers.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jimmy Moore: I never get those preferred rates because I can’t get my numbers down that good. Uh— although, uh—you could do it with uh—you know, 10-day fast to try to get those numbers down. Get the good rate and go back to eating, it would go back up again. But, yeah, it’s uh— you know, I haven’t tried that but, that— would—If I could uh—make a little—If I can sell a few more books maybe I’ll do that daily NMR just to kind of keep an eye on what’s exactly happening.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s great work. Kinda doing the circle run here. We hit the fasting book, fasting clarity; hit the Keto clarity; we hit the cholesterol clarity; Are there any other key topics within those three books to give out now, that you wanna hit on? That you just feel is really important to address?
Jimmy Moore: Yeah. I mean, we’ve hit all the—the key points with that. Uhm— I’m obviously still writing books and still continuing to— to try to get information out there. The next book that I’m—I’m working on is kind of a sequel to Keto Clarity uh— coz all these people read that it was meant to be an entry-level book. I get some weird reviews on Amazon top uh—uh.com sometimes for Keto Clarity like, “It’s too simple.” Like, “Yeah. That was the point, dude.” Hahaha— I wanted it to be entry-level coz keto can be a little complex. You start talking about gluconeogenesis and ketoacidosis.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Gluconeogenesis. I love it.
Jimmy Moore: Yeah. Exactly. Oh, you remember that. Uh —And so I uh— wanted to go a little bit deeper and so Dr. Nally, uh—my keto talk co-host and I are actually working on a book called, “The Keto Cure” which will take all the major disease states uh—that a ketogenic diet helps with and show you the metabolic pathway of why it works, supplements you can take that would correspond with the ketogenic diet. And as a very last resort, any medications that might be an adjunct for that particular condition. So we’re really excited to get that book out in September uh—like a settl— kind of a long-awaited sequel to Keto Clarity. Uhm— and then another piece that’s not being talked about a lot, Justin, is the whole uh— mindset. The whole uh— getting your brain in the right— uh and loving yourself in the process.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jimmy Moore: I guess it’s a long time to say a lot of people give you the “Here’s the how to” “Here’s the practical” And some people say, “I just hate how I look.” “I just don’t know” They don’t love themselves. And so I’m teaming up with a registered holistic nutritionist named, Meg Doll. Uh— was Meg on the cruise the year you came?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: She may have been. Sounds familiar.
Jimmy Moore: Yeah. So I— Anyway, she and I are collaborating on a book called, “Keto Freedom” coming out in December. And then I just signed the contract as of the recording of this, like today, uh —for my next book after that called, “Weight Loss White Lies” There are so many shysters in the weight loss industry and I’m so sick and tired of seeing them on television and in print magazines. And people believe the garbage that’s put out there about what they need to do lose weight. And so, “Weight loss White lies” is gonna come in 2018 and I’ve already asked my publisher, “Can I please just rail against everybody?” So they don’t let me do that and uh— really excited to get that out there. Constantly working on new projects trying to uh— help other people, keep doing my podcasts. I do five podcast a week now between the three shows. So stays busy.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s great. You are the major podcast guy over the last 10 years. Now you’re into the whole authorship field. You’re doing great. Any of those book hits uh—hit New York Times best seller?
Jimmy Moore: You know, Keto Clarity came so close.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Aww—
Jimmy Moore: It was 22 the week it would’ve hit. And—and some of the behind-the-scenes games people may not know about. There’s publishers that actually pay their way to get on the list.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s hard.
Jimmy Moore: And so—You know publishers pay their way to get on the list the week I would’ve it. Uhm— and so I missed it by two on that one. The Ketogenic Cookbook hit 21.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Aww— one away.
Jimmy Moore: But “Ketogenic Cookbook” did hit International Bestseller status as did the uh—the book after that one uh— was “The Complete Guide to Fasting” that came out on October uh—we originally called it “Fasting Clarity” but then we got into writing it and, “Oop, we need to change the title.” Coz he didn’t want to necessarily stick with the same form as the clarity books. And so “Complete Guide to Fasting” also it sold out in six hours on Amazon.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow. Unreal.
Jimmy Moore: The day it came out.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Everyone listening, let’s help Jimmy get to number one here on his next book.
Jimmy Moore: Hahaha—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, thank you. And yeah, we’re really excited about “The Keto Cure” and yeah, we’re gonna keep doing our thing, man. Getting the message out to think we’re all passionate. All of us in this community are passionate just about educating people and helping them change their lives.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We’ll put the links below to all the Amazon— all the Amazon links to the books of people can easily access that. Awesome. And if you want to get in touch with Jimmy, livinlavidalowcarb.com livinlavida pod —livinlavidalowcarb podcast, and as well as the Keto talks, right, with Adam McNally?
Jimmy Moore: Adam Nally.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Adam Nally.
Jimmy Moore: Yeah. He’s been called McNally. He’s been called worse, so—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hahaha—
Jimmy Moore: that’s just from Jimmy Moore. Like Keto Talk with Jimmy Moore & the Doc on Thursdays. And then I have a brand new podcast that started with Dr. Fung in January called, “Fasting Talk” so that’s also out there, as well, fastingtalk.com
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it, man. Excellent. And last question I asked all my guests here. If you’re stuck on a desert island and you can only bring one supplement with you, what would it be, Jimmy?
Jimmy Moore: Well, I wouldn’t need vitamin D if I’m on a dessert island so—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: No. You wouldn’t need that.
Jimmy Moore: One supplement— I— I would bring MCT oil.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I knew you were gonna say that. That would myself ahead of time.
Jimmy Moore: Hahaha—Or coconut oil, either one—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Something to increase uh— ketones naturally. Love it, Jimmy.
Jimmy Moore: Or to be fuelled, you know, coz if you’re—because you’re probably gonna have to fast quite a bit. So if I’m fasting, I want some fat in my body.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally makes sense. And you’d be a pro at that. I mean 28 days, man. Coz me and you in a dessert island, I think you may have me beaten, man.
Jimmy Moore: Well, I’ve got a little more uh—uh— meat on my body as well. I would survive a little longer.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I hear you.
Jimmy Moore: Awesome, Jimmy. Hold on, I’m gonna do it. His name is Jimmy Moore. Thanks Jimmy. I appreciate everything.
Jimmy Moore: His name—is Jimmy Moore.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I love it.
Jimmy Moore: Thanks so much for joining us here today on the Justin Marchegiani Show.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I love it. And again, thank you for being an inspiration on the podcast. I listen to your shows for a lot inspiration and just kinda how do I captivate the crowd and just be a really good host and kinda like prod for those good questions and that good uh—interactive feedback. So I appreciate that, Jimmy. I think the spontaneity helps and—and when you’re good friends with the person you’re interviewing, that also helps a lot. Uhm— and yeah, behind-the-scenes, I try to mentor a lot of podcasters. People don’t realize that I’m talking to a lot of these people that are coming on new and I’m happy to do that. I’ve done this a very long time and I love every minute of it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it, Jimmy. We’ll get you back on as soon as that book comes out.
Jimmy Moore: Thanks, bud.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Thanks so much, Jimmy. Take care.
References:
http://www.livinlavidalowcarb.com/
Cholesterol Clarity: What The HDL Is Wrong With My Numbers?
The Ketogenic Cookbook: Nutritious Low-Carb, HIgh-Fat Paleo Meals to Heal Your Body