Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Happy Monday to you. How was your weekend?
Evan Brand: It was great! Uh, actually, I’m feeling much better. I donated some blood again, which I was telling you off air, and my vision, which I thought was caused from overuse of looking at computer screens— my vision was kind of wonky—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.
Evan Brand: My vision literally cleared up, like right after donating blood. So, this is very interesting because you find nothing in the literature about vision and high Iron. At least maybe I just— unless I missed the research— I didn’t find anything. But when I got the blood out of my body, “Boom!” My vision was cleared. [crosstalk] Do you have any explanation—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I know a podcast on this recently too with elevations in Iron. I think back in May, we did a nice podcast on this— how that can create some oxidation issues. It could have been some kind of oxidation reaction. It could have been just maybe putting some stress on your antioxidant reserves. It’s hard to say, but I think it’s good everyone get their Iron levels checked. It’s something that I’ve been putting off. Uhm— I just try to do like at least two in-depth blood tests a year, and you know that involves a lot of vials. And then maybe one other test that involves blood like a micronutrient panel. That may be enough like three good times a year. I know we talked about with you kind of on the Phlebotomy side. That’s just doing something at least once a quarter.
Evan Brand: Yeah, and for people that are— you know, for women, specifically that are menstruating, this probably not an issue that’s gonna happen but we do have quite a bit of male listeners too. So if you guys are having any type of symptoms that are just not making sense, run that Iron panel because I was also noticing my mental energy was lower.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.
Evan Brand: and— and when I left the Red Cross, my mental energy had skyrocketed. So, Iron, energy levels, uh— in terms of sleep, grogginess, mood— it could all be related to Iron overload, and I suspect more people have Iron overload. Males; suspect Iron overload, and— and most people don’t have a clue.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: One hundred percent. Well, let’s dig in here. We got a couple of questions here. One from Amy. Uh— what can man and woman do for hair loss? Well, first thing, for both sexes, is make sure your gut function’s doing well because if we’re not absorbing good fats and good proteins, we’re not gonna have the building blocks to make our healthy hair. That’s number one. Number two on the female side, and even the male side,is make sure thyroid function is optimal. I would say, you know, TSH, below two and a half. Your free T3 levels in the at least upper 50% range, free T3 wise, is adequate. That’s—
Evan Brand: So what would that be? You see like a 2.8—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Above 3.0. Above 3. A 3.0 or above, I think is adequate. Low th— You need thyroid hormone to help mature and grow the— the hair follicles. So, low thyroid hormone levels could potentially drive hair follicle loss. In men, you can also see increases of DHT can start Oxygen and blood flow to the hair follicles so that’s why things like Arimidex had helped or you can do nal— Natural 5-alpha Reductase inhibitors like Selenium, Like Lycopene, Saw Palmetto, Pumpkin seed. This can kind of block a lot of that down. Now the question is why does a lot of that DHT increase— I mean, I would lean on inflammation. I would lean on Insulin-resistance. I would lean on genetic predisposition. So I would really just do your best to make sure inflammation’s under control, and then just really increase some of those nutrients to help block that 5-alpha reductase compounds— Zinc, Selenium, uhm— Saw Palmetto, uhmmm— uh— Lycopene, Pumpkin seed. Those are helpful nutrients that you can do. And the female side, I would just say, really just dial in the thyroid, really dial in the digestion. Those are gonna be the first things I would look at.
Evan Brand: Yeah, and look for the antibodies, too. And— And you said that without saying it. I know it’s in your brain but you didn’t say it-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, yes.
Evan Brand: -which is, “Look at the antibodies,” because almost every single woman that you see and almost every single woman that I see has some type of an autoimmune component to her thyroid, so just making sure you get those antibody levels down.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, ni— fif— over 50% of thyroid issues are autoimmune, so when we talk about thyroid, autoimmune is already being plugged in as— as the big issue because that is gonna be the major mechanism. And we know gluten-sensitivity is a big part of that, so gluten can easily drive a lot of that. And if you just Google gluten or gluten issues or gluten sensitivity and to like Alopecia— Alopecia areata, which is an autoimmune condition with hair loss, not quite the same thing as like hair thinning. It’s you literally have patches of hair come out, and that can actually be autoimmune-driven, and we know there’s a gluten connection with Alopecia. Also, Yeast as well can potentially drive Alopecia and autoimmune stuff. O, anything that creates malabsorption in the gut, whether it’s bacteria, parasites, yeast overgrowth— anything that lowers thyroid, whether it’s lo— lower thyroid issue from a primary issue uh— with a pituitary, from stress, or whether it’s an autoimmune issue, and then, of course, the DHT stuff on the guy side.
Evan Brand: Any infections— addressing infections— ‘cause my [crosstalk] Reverse T3— Yeah. My— My reverse T3 was too high and a lot of it, I believe is my gut issues.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, absolutely. Now, Gabe writes in, “Can Intermittent fasting help me absorb nutrition better? Heard it also calm inflammation. I’m dealing with malabsorption.” I’ll let you tackle that one first, Evan.
Evan Brand: Yeah. So, intermittent fasting. I mean, there’s definitely some benefits. Now, if you’re dealing with malabsorption though, then, we got to figure out why is that happening. So, the first step would be to get a GI Map Stool test and try to look for infections. I’d also look at getting the organic acids and try to find maybe a yeast or a bacterial overgrowth issue because if those guys are stealing your nutrients, I’m more worried about that than worried about whether the fasting would help you absorb better. It’s like, “Okay. If you’ve got a bunch of these bugs, and every time you eat, they’re trying to eat too, to me that’s like the first priority.” And I dealt with this firstly, which is why my fingernails still have the ridges on them ‘cause I have now absorption issues for who knows— maybe fifteen years of my life. And in terms of calming inflammation, I mean, addressing the gut bugs will calm inflammation too. So, if you have H. pylori or some other bug, that’s also gonna keep you inflamed, and no matter how much you fast, you’re not gonna magically cure those bugs with fasting.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: No, you’re not. Again, we’d had conversation with people off air about fasting. I mean, I see a lot of issues with patients that have hormonal imbalances, where they’re very blood sugar sensitive. They go too long without eating, there’s a lot of irritability, a lot of adrenal and blood sugar issues, so a lot of people I see on that side feel eating a little bit more frequently. And we try to lengthen it, you know, between meals a little bit longer and move into being able to Intermittent fast. You know, they’re too weak, but most people benefit from intermittent fasting on the digestive side because they’re just giving their digestive system a break. Maybe they’re not eating the foods that will be aggravating it. And then that can kind of calms down the inflammation and then the gut works better for a period of time but it’s not gonna fix the root issue. It’s just giving it a break. It’s kind of like if, you know, you didn’t walk on your ankle for half the day, well, it may feel a little bit better in the last half of the day when you do because you gave it a little bit more time to rest if you will.
Evan Brand: Yep. So, I mean, it c— it could be part of a healing protocol but it’s not the cure-all.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: No. It’s not— It’s not root causal. There’s not— There’s no magic in eating nothing. If that’s the case, anyone that would be on the streets or homeless that didn’t eat, you know, would have perfect health, and that’s just not how it is. And I get that’s an oversimplification but it’s true.
Evan Brand: Yup.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We actually need nutrients to run our pathways.
Evan Brand: We do.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmm— Justin writes in, “Dr. J, any recommendations on helping recover from Eipstein Barr virus? Uh— I’m a big fan of medicinal mushrooms. I’m gonna— I’m gonna take some right now actually. Oh! I just finished it yesterday. But Reishi medicinal mushrooms are excellent.
Evan Brand: Yup.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely love that. Uhm— Longterm, I think Ashwagandha’s wonderful or the product called Ashwagandha Supreme. I love it. I take it for capsules during the week. Maybe—
Evan Brand: You do—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …stress.
Evan Brand: Do you do evening doses as well or do you just do Ashwagandha during the day?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: If I’m stressed and I’m feeling like a little bit just like I had a long day with patients, I’m feeling really stressed, I’ll do that maybe some GABA and Magnesium just to kind of chill out.
Evan Brand: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: But it can be helpful. It’s great long-term immune support. It’s great adrenal support, Cortisol modulation, and balancing good HPA Axis support. Also with that, we can do Silver. We can do Monolaurin. We can do the Reishi like I mentioned. That’s excellent. We can do Cat’s claw. Those are a couple— a really good support that could be done to help.
Evan Brand: Yeah. The Monolaurin’s great. The Lauric acid formula comes from coconuts. I have one called Biofilm Buster that I use, and that one is a— is a potent antiviral. And you really turned me on to the Silver, so the Silver could be useful too. And then, you mentioned the Reishi. I’d say, any of the mushrooms too, but Reishi would be probably the go to. Cordyceps, Shiitake, Maitake-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.
Evan Brand: -could be helpful. And then Astragalus. I’m a huge fan of Astragalus. I love taking it. I take it almost everyday during the summer because of all the ticks here. I don’t want to get Lyme. So I take three grams. I take seven capsules a day of Astragalus, and I have an organic source that I use, and that is helpful. To— you can’t really get rid of the virus. You can just shut Epstein-barr down. That’s kind of my understanding.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Totally. “Any knowledge and opinions on the health benefits of carbon-60?” Never heard of it.
Evan Brand: Yeah. I have. Yeah, so the Carbon-60— it’s like this patented version of Olive oil. And—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh.
Evan Brand: -suppose to just be like this miracle cure, and everyone is taking it. Let me look and see if there was another ‘cause I had heard there’s another one that’s different though. So that’s one, and there’s another one that’s called C60, and it’s something different. It’s Avocado oil. And then there’s another one. That’s C60 Coconut oil. And—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I’m familiar with the like the MCT Oil. Like the— the Hexanoic acid. Like, you know, Dave Asprey has it in the Brain Octane. Other people have it as well, which is primarily used by the brain. I’m familiar with that. That has six Carbons on it for sure.
Evan Brand: So, for example, a 4-ounce bottle of this stuff is a hundred dollars.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s really expensive.
Evan Brand: And it says— It’s a— It’s an—a monomolecular pure C60 suspended in Avocado oil. I mean, look. Anytime that there’s something promoted as like a Silver bullet like that, I just am a little bit skeptical. I’ve not personally taken it so I’m not gonna tell you that it’s not awesome, but it says here. What they do, get this. It says, “Here’s how we create C60. We use rods of elemental Carbon, vaporized by electricity in a Helium atmosphere. This method imitates the way C6— C60’s made in the atmosphere of giant red stars.”
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That just sounds a little bit out there for me. [laughs]
Evan Brand: For a hundred bucks for 4-ounce bottle.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, yeah. That sounds a little crazy. I would need a lot more of clinical feedback on people that have had amazing results. But I mean, if w— if we’re just working on getting extra good carbons in there, good healthy fats— I mean, I think a good MCT Oil I think is a great way to go, but I’m not sure about this Carbon-60 thing.
Evan Brand: For a 16-ounce bottle, 370 dollars.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Crazy.
Evan Brand: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Crazy. Crazy.
Evan Brand: So, let’s see. Let’s see like before and after Lab results. Okay. It promises to do this with Mitochondria. Okay. here’s before and after.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.
Evan Brand: Nothing else was done, except this supplement. Look at what it did to the mitochondria.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.
Evan Brand: Then I would be like, “Okay. It’s a miracle.”
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. Charlie writes in, “When doing the 201 CAR Test, will i negatively affect the test results if you walk to other rooms uh— to do waking sample? I mean, I would just try to follow the instructions as much as possible and not be doing a whole bunch of physical stress to check up your Cortisol.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Try to be as stationary as possible.
Evan Brand: Yup. Uh— Do you want me to read this one from Gary?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: I’ll read it for you.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, go ahead.
Evan Brand: “I’m dealing with depression, etc. They tell me plant-based diet. Been doing it for four weeks; not much success. Any thoughts? I’m not going back on meds.”
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. The big problem is a lot of people need protein for helping brain chemistry and it’s hard to get enough protein in a plant-based diet. It’s specially hard to get a lot of protein when you’re consuming a lot of carbohydrates along with it. And if you’re on the Insulin-resistant side, that could drive up inflammation. A lot of the new medications used that are coming out down the pipeline for Depression, they’re actually anti-inflammatory for the brain. ‘Cause they understand that inflammation on the brain can drive mood disorders, so the best thing is an anti-inflammatory die. A lot of plant-based diets may have a lot of Lectins and Phytates and a lot of other antinutrients in it, and/or could just be really high in carbohydrates. If you’re Insulin-resistant, that could be a problem. People that do best on a plant-based diet, typically, they’re gonna be supplementing additional protein needed from Hemp or Pea or Rice. And then a lot of times, we’ll be doing some B12. They may be doing a lot of good fat from Coconut and Olive and nuts and seeds. And they may be able to tolerate the carbs better, right? But it’s really hard to do it adequately without some kind of a plant-based protein supplement. And they’re probably doing DHEA, DHA algae support, uhm— fish oil support from algae instead. So that’s kind of how you can do it right. I think it’s easier to have the good animal proteins and animal fats in there ‘cause they’re— they’re so heat stable, and they’re so Protein-rich and fat-rich without all of the additional carbs with it. And we could still do a whole bunch of other plants we just try to choose healthy sources. And we prepare it in a way that makes it easier to digest and process.
Evan Brand: And I know we’ve done podcasts all on depression, so just go on Justin’s site, justinhealth.com, or go on my site, evanbrand.com. Type in depression, you’ll find entire hours dedicated to this. Also, I believe uh— Justin and I both have done a YouTube video— I know I have for sure— on Depression and some of the stuff that helped me ‘cause I was depressed for a long time. So, just go like on YouTube, type in Depression, Just in Health or Evan Brand, you’ll find the videos.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. Cool. Let’s keep on rolling. “Is there a supplement to help me fall asleep and stay asleep? I wake up every night, one to three times, and have uh— have trouble sleeping sometimes as well.” Evan, what do you think.
Evan Brand: I mean, that’s hard, right? There could be a million reasons why you can’t fall asleep. What if you’re checking your phone? You’re probably looking at your phone on social media before bed, which is terrible idea. You’re suppressing Melatonin. So it could be something that simple. It could be that your Cortisol’s a little too e— elevated. It could be that you’re having a blood sugar crisis in the middle of the night. Blood sugar’s crashing and that’s waking you up. It could be that your liver’s overburdened. It could be that you— you know, you have too much light pollution in your bedroom, or you have dirty electricity in your bedroom, or your— your bedroom is too warm and you’re restless because of it, or your bed sucks and it’s too uncomfortable, or you have gut infections that are waking you up. You know what I mean? So this is like a huge kind of worms, and you’re not gonna get the answer that quick. But is there a supplement that could help? Yeah, maybe. You could try like PharmaGABA. You could try Ashwagandha that Justin was just talking about, Reishi mushroom [crosstalk] could be helpful. Yeah, Phosphatidylserine is great, but you got to figure out the root cause ‘cause something is like are going on, and those are just a few ideas to think about. So look into your gut. Look into your adrenals.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. If there’s— If it’s an Anxiety issue, sometimes women that have lower Progesterone levels, that could be a problem too. So there’s a potential— bunch of potential things there and it’s different for each sex. So I mean, we have to know kind of male, female, menopausal, cycling whatever— That— That helps a lot too.
Evan Brand: Yeah. There was a follow-up from the same person here. “What is the reason why I wake up with sore legs? They feel heavy. Uh— I mean, and no exercise a day before.” That could just be Mitochondria. What do you think?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It could be Mitochondrial stuff. I’d look at how much amino acids you’re getting and just try to get some good mitochondrial support and some extra amino acids in and see. Uhm— I also want to know, what’s your day like? Are you at a stand desk? Are you sitting all day? Are you— Are you seated all day? What does that stress look like? Uhm— It’s really hard to say. Are you getting enough minerals? Could it be like some kind of a— a muscle cramping thing because of mineral issues? Really hard to say. And then, of course, anytime we gut issues, gut issues can cause any symptoms, so anytime I see like weird symptoms, I’m like, “Alright. Let’s look at the gut. Let’s look at infections. Let’s look at potential autoimmunity through foods ‘cause that can easily drive like kind of Fibromyalgia-like symptoms, which can cause those kinds of symptoms as well.” So, yeah.
Evan Brand: I think we’ve got— you’ve got like,literally, one minute so let’s-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.
Evan Brand: -try to hit one more.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. “Any thoughts on Iodine for thyroid health, Lugol’s, Iodoral, or Nasient?”
Evan Brand: Well—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, in general, like Nasient’s a big thing. I think uhm— Dr. Edward Group at Global Healing Center pushes that one. I think the dose is reasonable. I’m not sure if it needs to be in this nasient form. Uh— A good Potassium Iodine/Iodide I think is fine. I have one called Iodine synergy that works great. I’m a big fan of number one, make sure thyroid inflammation and inflammation in the body is generally stabilized before you add Iodine in. I start lower at a couple hundred micrograms and work up slowly. I’ve seen more negative effects from going too high with Iodine than not, so I err on the side of going lower and tapering up slower with some of the Lugol’s, maybe at 2-5 milligrams, which in my opinion is too high if you have it. You may just put a drop in— in and out and seven ounces of water and just do a quick sip once a day. In that way, you can only break it down to like one-seventh of the dose. But in general, I try to go slower, work it up, make sure there’s adequate Selenium and other minerals present. Magnesium, Zinc— those kind of things. Good multi there. Good, rich diet and minerals before you go up. I’m always concerned about, you know, too high and exacerbating an autoimmune attack.
Evan Brand: Yeah. That’s— That’s what I was gonna say was that if there is autoimmunity, you got to be careful ‘cause it can make it worse and we’ve seen the antibodies go up from people that went to a practitioner-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.
Evan Brand: -and they just got like superdosed with Iodine, and— and they got worse. So—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hundred percent. Cool, Evan. Anything else you wanted to mention?
Evan Brand: I think that’s it. I mean, we can hit up the other questions, you know, next week, but we’ve both got a roll. And so, in the meantime, if you want to reach out to Justin for help, got to his site, justinhealth.com, and if you want to check out me, you can check out evanbrand.com. We love helping you all. We love talking to you and we’ll be back next Monday.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I’ll be back on Friday for my live Q&A, guys, so any questions I didn’t get to, we’ll hit it up there. Give me a like. Give me a thumbs up. Give me a share. Palm that bell. Tell a friend or family member. We’re here to help you all-all. We love interacting. I appreciate you guys being uh— active participants in this conversation.
Welcome to another Just in Health functional medicine podcast! Today’s podcast is all about addressing Iron Overload. Watch as Dr. J and Evan Brand unravel what you can do to start chelating Iron naturally. Learn the importance of Iron into our body, and the symptoms and side effects of Iron Overload related issues.
Keep tuning in to discover the different strategies you can do if you have Iron issues, especially if you a woman menstruating. Don’t forget to share!
Dr. Justin Marchegiani
In this episode, we cover:
01:55 Natural Ways for Iron Chelation
04:46 Symptoms and Side Effects of Iron Issues with Women
06:50 Therapeutic Phlebotomy
08:55 Metabolic Markers for Iron Overload
12:00 Plant-based Versus Animal-Based Iron
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey! It’s Dr. J here in the house. Evan, how are we doing today, man? How was your weekend?
Evan Brand: Hey! Weekend was good. Life is good. Spring is good. The grass is green. The sky is blue. So, uh— I’m ready to dive in, man. I miss— I miss chatting with you. Last week, I don’t know if we chatted or not. The way time flies, I can’t keep up when our last chat was, but I’m ready to dive in today.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. We were able to chat but just not on the air, but I’m glad that we’re back on the air, brother. You’re like a poet and you didn’t know it, today. I love it.
Evan Brand: I know. I know. Let’s chat about Iron, man. ‘Cause here’s the deal. Let me just give the audience a little back story. Uh— So, I told you. I said, “Man, I’m having a couple random heart palpitations and I’m not sure why. And, I was able to successfully mitigate it using Motherworts, which is one of my favorite herbs that can help with heart stuff.” But, that’s not root cause. I mean, that’s just an herb that really helped me feel better And, uh— I ran some blood work just to investigate ‘cause you said, “Hey, man! Maybe you’ve got some Thyroid stuff going on.” And, the reverse T3 was elevated on my re— report, which is, as you mentioned to me off air, probably a stress thing, just working hard, being busy, keeping up with the little baby. And then, uh— two, the things that showed up was my Iron. My saturation was way too high and my Ferritin was way too high. We like to see men and women anywhere between like 50 and maybe 100 at most of Ferritin or so, and I was over 500. And so I’d found out, “Okay. I’ve got an Iron Overload.” So, what I then did was went on 23andme and looked up the genes for Hemochromatosis to see if that’s me because Irish people supposedly have a higher risk of this. I had no genes at all, man. Like I checked out perfectly fine. I don’t think it’s an issue at all. And so, I started doing some research into the literature on what you can do to start chelating Iron naturally ‘cause there are some pharmaceuticals that are supposedly very, very ridden with side effects. So, I knew I didn’t want to do that. And so, I found some cool stuff on Curcumin. So, I’ve been doing three grams per day now. I’ve been doing like breakfast, lunch, dinner Curcumin, and then I’m doing some Coricidin, which is there’s a little bit of literature on that. And then, I’m doing also Resveratrol and Chlorella. And then, yesterday, I went to the American Red Cross. I donated a pint of blood, which is the most that they can take from you. And then, I’m able to go back in 56 days to go donate another pint. And then, according to Mercola, uh— he mentioned that he had an Iron Overload issue at, once, and his dad had it too, where his Ferritin was over like 1000, which increases risks of Cancer at that level. And that, with an Infrared Sauna and detox strategies, Mercola said he was able to get his uh— Iron and Ferritin down faster than even giving blood. So, I’m gonna get back into the Sauna and start pumping up the Chlorella a bit more, and hopefully, I’ll be able to fix this issue quickly.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Dude, you own a sauna at your house?
Evan Brand: I do. Yes, right here.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, nice! Is that a Sunlighten?
Evan Brand: Uh— No, it’s not. It’s a called Radiant Health. It’s a guy out of Candida named Randy. It’s pretty good. Uh— I haven’t measured the ELF like the electric fields ‘cause people talk about those, but I have measured the magnetic fields. The magnetic fields are basically non-existent with it. So—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, that’s great. That’s—
Evan Brand: I think, overall, it gets a passing grade, but I don’t know electric field status.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it. And again, Iron Overload is interesting, right? Uh— With our female patients, we have more of an issue with Iron— stutters] Iron-based Anemia or Iron deficiency…
Evan Brand: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …because females menstruate, especially if they’re not menopausal yet. They’re menstruating so they’re losing blood every month. And if a woman is Estrogen-dominant, right? They’re— The ratio of Estrogen to Progesterone is a bit higher than normal. Normally, it’s like a 23:25:1 ratio for Progesterone to Estrogen as that ratio drops, even though Estrogen is still lower than Progesterone, that starts to signify that you’re in a state of Estrogen Dominance. One of the big things you can see there is a prolonged menstruation state. So, when you start bleeding, you may spot for a few days, go into maybe a four or five days of bleeding where you’re doing heavier— you know, heavier menstruation. So, greater than four tampons per day. And that’s a— a big sign that you’re probably gonna be losing too much Iron. And Iron’s important because it helps bind. So then, the Hemoglobin then carries Oxygen to the cells. So, any cell that’s involved in Aerobic metabolism, which a— you know, energy from uh— combustion of Oxygen, not Anaerobic. Anaerobic is like a sprint or a quick lifting session. It require no Oxygen, but a lot of metabolism requires Aerobic, and you need Iron that’s bound to the Hemoglobin that carry that Oxygen, right? You go back to the old Science experiments when you’re in middle school, where you have a candle and you put a jar over the candle. Uh— After a certain period of time, the candle goes out because it needs Oxygen for the— for that— the fire to continue to burn, right?
Evan Brand: Yep. So, let’s talk about like symptoms and maybe side effects of what would happen with these women and we see it every single week that there’s an issue with some type of Anemia. A lot of times it’s a Ferritin Anemia, which is a specific biomarker. Ferritin is an Iron storage protein that conventional doctors don’t test for. And it’s very important to test for Ferritin. So, you know, a lot of times we’re gonna see hair loss and could be Anxiety. It could be Depression. And then, when you get to the really low levels like usually when women are around 20. And don’t quote me ‘cause I don’t have it in front of me but I want to say— I’ll pull up my bloodwork to give you the correct [pauses] uh— the correct marker, but I think it’s in ng? So, what is that? Nanograms over milliliter?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm— Uhmhm—
Evan Brand: I— I don’t think it’s— What is it? Deciliter? I don’t think it’s that. I think it’s mL. Let me check here.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: If you’re using your basic— your basic test on LabCorp Quest, uh— whatever that number is, that’s gonna be in the correct standard deviations. Or, if you’re at home and you wanted to test yours out, as a female, we want at least 30— you know, ideally, 50 to 80 is probably probably the sweet spot. As guys, we don’t menstruate, right? So, it’s easy for that Iron to accumulate. I have a history of higher Iron as well so it’s important if I try to get my blood— you know, two big blood tres— blood test throughout the year that require a lot of vials. Sometimes that can be enough, but like Evan said, sometimes you may have to call up the Red Cross and donate that blood. That’s a great way to— to get that— get those Iron levels dropped. You know, Evan also mentioned the sauna. And then also the Curcumin. And we like the Liposomal Cucumin ‘cause it absorbs a lot better, or at least the Curcumin with the Black Pepper ‘cause that’s another great way of lowering your Iron. And higher amounts of Iron can increase Oxidative Stress. So, if you’re a guy or a menopausal female, you have a chance of higher levels of Iron that can easily increase Oxidative Stress. And I think some of Evan’s side effects that you experienced in the last few weeks could have easily been caused by his higher levels of Iron. So, one of the things that Evan was mentioned was irregular heart rhythm and I think some of that improved over the last couple of days since we saw his Iron was elevated. We gave him some uhm— Therapeutic Phlebotomy, right? That’s just getting your blood drawn for the purpose of nothing else, of let’s say, just getting them drawn because of the benefits of lowering the Iron. And we saw some amazing improvements and just that irregular heart rhythm off the bat, right?
Evan Brand: Yeah. I mean, I told you like I’m not joking yesterday. I went to the Red Cross yesterday, as the time of this recording. I’m not joking. I felt 20% better because I’ve been having some Brain Fog too. I’ve been feeling really spacey, and I’ve got my labs rerun for the gut. I do not have a Candida Overgrowth, which is kind of my suspicion. I thought, “You know, maybe this is Yeast problem uh— coming back uh— because that typically causes Brain Fog and Fatigue.” ‘Cause I was having a little bit of Fatigue, a little bit of Heart Palpitations. No. I— I— It was none of that. It wasn’t Yeast. It was this— It was this high uh— Ferritin-high Iron Overload. I’m not joking. I felt 20% better. My head was clear. I had more energy. It was almost like a weight was lifted from my shoulders. So, back to the— The reference range. Yeah. So my levels of Ferritin were 548 ng/mL. And you know, kind of an optimal range as you mentioned, something like a 30 at a minimum maybe up to like a hundred or so. And, here’s the deal with this Iron Overload, and man, I mean, this causes damage to your liver like, you’re rusting from the inside out. So I looked up a couple statistics and found that there’s 36,000 deaths per year from liver disease— I’m guessing this is in the US— and 6,000 liver transplants, and most of these cases can be affected by excess Iron. And it says here, “Even in the absence of a Hemochromatosis genotype.” So if you don’t have the genetic sep— susceptibility to build up excess Iron, if there’s other causes, you can still end up with uh— what they call a— I call it NAFLD but Non-Alcoholic Fatty Liver Disease. And there’s a lot of herbs that we can use and that we do use to try to help reverse or mitigate that. Cancers— You mentioned the Heart Arrythmias, uh— Grave’s Disease, supposedly a link there. Uh— Premature Aging, Atherosclerosis, Insulin Resistance, Type II Diabetes. I mean, this is something that’s so easy to fix though, but it gets skipped all the time.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: One hundred percent. There’s a couple of markers that you can look for on your comprehensive metabolic panel on your blood test. I mean, you can look at your ALT, which is Alanine Aminotransferase. ALT for short. And this is an Isoenzyme so the L in ALT, we think of that’s for liver. That’s looking at the liver. We have the AST, which is the uhm— the Aspartate Aminotransferase. Uhm— Yeah. That’s the— exactly, the Aspartate Transaminase marker. [crosstalk] And S—
Evan Brand: And a clear—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And the S in that is uh— typically we— we think of skeletal muscles. So, that’s another Isoenzyme but we think more skeletal muscle. And the last one is GGT, which is Gamma Glutamyltransferase, and that one’s gonna be kidneys, kind of liver, gallbladder, pancreas. So, we look at those Isoenzymes. If we see any elevation in that, that could partly be from the Oxidative Stress of elevate Iron, but it could be from alcohol and other things too. So, it’s not like a binary on-off if you have it, there’s an Iron issue, it could be other things. Go ahead.
Evan Brand: Okay. Okay. Yeah, I know. That— That’s what I was gonna ask you just to be clear. So, when we see an elevation of ALT, AST or GGT, that’s when you can run into problems. So, this guy uh— I think it is pronounced as Gerry— Gerry Koenig. He was the former chairman of Iron Disorder Institute and Hematomacrosis Foundation. He says that women with a GGT above 30 have a higher risk of Cancer and Autoimmune disease. So, there is a link between Autoimmunity and there’s Iron Overload. And that would be indicative by GGT, ALT, AST, and as you mentioned, other reasons too, like infections. So, maybe we kind of transition and talk about infections a bit because uh— if you— Maybe on the low Iron side, if you have uh— H. pylori infection and you have no HCl wouldn’t it be true that that could be contributing to Iron Deficiency Anemia?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. If you have H. pylori that could be easily driving down your Hydrochloric acid levels, and that could make it harder for you to absorb and Ionize your Iron for sure. Uh— Also, just the inflammation in your gut and like the Atrophic Gastritis, the thinning of that gut lining and the inflammation in your gut couldn’t make it harder for you to absorb a lot of those nutrients too. So, it could easily be on the digestive side or on the absorption side cause it’s not a guarantee just cause you eat it. But you’re gonna absorb it, assimilate it and utilize it. We also have to make sure those other bottleneck factors are addressed. And also, we just have to make sure we’re eating it too. If you’re a Vegetarian or Vegan, as a— as a guy or a gal, you could easily be lowering Iron that— that way too because there is Iron in plants, right? If you look at Spinach, that’s high in Iron but it’s a non-heme based Iron. Non-based Iron tend to not support uhm— Iron levels in the blood. Not Serum Iron but like Iron like in Ferritin tend to not move that needle as much. If you look at Chlorophyll, right? Chlorophyll is basically— If you look at it, it’s got a big Magnesium right in the middle of it, right? It’s got a big Magnesium molecule right in the middle of it. If you look at animal-based Iron, it’s got a big Iron right in the middle of it. So, if you look at animal-based protein, right? It’s got a lot of Iron right in the middle of it. You look at plant-based Chlorophyll that’s got a big Magnesium in it. So, plant-based doesn’t quite move the needle with Iron. More with Magnesium. Animal-based will move the needle up with Iron and it’s much better to absorb with uhm— animal-based Iron as well.
Evan Brand: Yep, well said. And we’ve tested the Vegetarians and Vegans will continue to say, “Hey, look. It’s generally gonna create an issue. I had a woman who was a Vegan for ten years. Her Ferritin level was in the teens. I want to say it was like maybe 17 or 18. She couldn’t catch her breath. She thought she’d like had a Heart Attack or something, like she was having Heart Failure ‘cause she was having trouble breathing. And she was losing hair and clumps, especially in the shower. Her Fatigue was just insane. She almost was going to quit or have to quit her job because the level of Fatigue. Luckily, we tested Ferritin. We started boosting up Ferritin. Uh— We— We’re giving some Vitamin C. We were getting her to do a little bit of some grass-fed beef. I could only get her to do it like once a week, but I was happy that she would do it at all. And also, increasing the enzymes and acids to get her to digest those meats better ‘cause she’ve been avoiding meat for ten years ‘cause she said she felt sick when she ate meat, which is probably a sign that she had a too low stomach acids so she couldn’t digest meat. So, “Oh! I’ll just be a Vegan cause I feel better without meat.” It’s like, “No. You can’t digest it. That’s the problem. Not meat. Meat’s— Meat was not the problem. And then, uh— W— We gave her some Lactoferrin. And then all the sudden Ferritin went up and then the hair started regrowing. And then, she could catch her breath again. So, I mean, low Iron just as big of a deal is high Iron.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think so too. Especially if you’re a cycling female, definitely don’t worry about the Iron overload. You got to want to worry about the— the low levels. And the big factors that are gonna drive that are gonna be an Absorption, Digestive, Infection, Low Stomach acid thing, a Vegan Vegetarian thing, or an Estrogen-dominant thing, where you’re having excessive menstruation. Those are gonna be the big three causes of why that may happen. And the markers that we look at is, number one, “Do you have elevated Ferritin?” I mean, I would say, “You’re gonna see in guys, you know, upwards of 250 to 300 on the high Ferritin. You may even see Iron Serum high, maybe not. You may see Iron saturation, very high— you know, 50 or, you know, 40— 50 and up. You may see your binding Proteins on the lower side. UIBC and TIBC, south of 250, or on the lower 200s, right? These are basically indirect or kind of, I should say uh— indirect markers. So, those proteins go low when Iron’s high, right? These proteins are like fingers, so the— the more you want something, the more fingers are grabbing at it, right? The higher— the higher it is, right? The higher it is, it typically means the lower the Iron is. We want more fingers grabbing at it. The lower these binding proteins ares, right— that means the higher the Iron is ‘cause we don’t need as much. I mean, there’s n— there’sless fingers grabbing at that Iron. So, you see UIBC and TIBC on the lower side. It’s an inverse kind of markers so people get their heads— kind of tired to get their heads wrapped around it. It’s kind of like TSH. TSH goes high when Thyroid goes low. It’s kind of like that.
Evan Brand: Yep. My uh— My saturation was elevated as well. My Iron Saturation— The reference range here from LabCorp was 15-55. My saturation was at 66.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep. There you go. That’s it. And then, how were your binding proteins? Did you do a UIBC or TIBC at all?
Evan Brand: I did. Yeah. So, TIBC actually showed up okay. Reference range was 250 to 450, I showed up right in the middle, 358. U—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm—
Evan Brand: UIBC, reference range was 111 to 343, I was on the low end there. I was only at 122.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: So, kind of bottoming out there on the UIBC.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. So, the UIBC— You could see it but in the hierarchy of evaluating this, we would always look at Ferritin, and Iron saturation will be our top two markers we’d look at. We would need to see the other one’s being out of range for us to move in that direction. BUt, you did see the UIBC starting to go low there. So, that…
Evan Brand: Uhmhm–
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …makes a lot of sense.
Evan Brand: Yep. So, I can’t wait to retest and get this Ferritin back down and I’m gonna proceed with the sauna. You know, that was another t— Another thing too, is that the sauna was causing me to have like my heart racing, like I was mobilizing in some type of toxin. So, I had stopped doing the Infrared Sauna for a bit ‘cause I was feeling a bit anxious after it. But, I’m gonna keep pumping up adrenal support, liver support, and if you have other recommendations of what I should be doing, I’m gonna add it in. And, hopefully, I can make the sauna regular practice again and try to speed up this whole Ferritin getting back down.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s interesting that Mercola was doing the sauna to help that get down. I mean, your conventional b— is gonna be your Therapeutic Phlebotomy. That’s gonna be the best way uh— to clean that out. And of course, your body needs about three to five milligrams of Iron a day, minimum. But, a lot of the symptoms of too much Iron can be similar as low Iron. This is where it kind of gets tough, right? Chronic Fatigue, which you think is like an Anemia, low Iron, like a Hypochromic Microcytic Anemia, right? It’s Hypochromic Microcytic because the red blood cells get little bitty and they kind of get crumpled and really small when you have low Iron because that Iron gets bound to the Hemoglobin. Hemoglobin becomes a really good backblown— backbone at that red blood cell. But, you can see, with the— too much Iron, right? Chronic Fatigue is a symptom of too much Iron, but it’s also a symptom of low Iron too.
Evan Brand: [crosstalk] I know. I was ti— I was tired, man. I was really tired. I’m not joking when I say 20%…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.
Evan Brand: …more energy yesterday after I gave that blood.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Also, Hypothyroidism is one. But, if you don’t have enough Iron, you need Iron to make Thyroid hormone, right? Depression; another one. Adrenal function issues is another one. Elevated liver enzymes like we mentioned, the ALT, AST, GGT, are big ones. Joint issues, skin color, right? Your skin color can look a little more bronze, right? Another one there. Blood sugar issues…
Evan Brand: Yup.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …joint pains. A lot of symptoms that— And this is kind of tough. It’s on both sides of the fence. Some of these symptoms you may think that you have low Iron with, right? But again, the first thing is if you’re cycling female, you can always lean to the side that’s it’s gonna be lower Iron? Right?
Evan Brand: Right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And then, if you’re a guy, Do you have a lot of gut issues? If you don’t have a lot of gut issues, like a Malabsorption or a known I— IBD, or Bowel issue, or you’re on Proton-pump Inhibitors, or you have an active H. pylori infection, odds are, it’s probably— you’re gonna be prone to having a high Iron issues. So, just kind of rule out those things first. Check those off. If you check any of those issues off as being a problem, then it could be a low Iron issue with the gut issues and the absorption issues, for sure.
Evan Brand: Yeah. Well, that’s why you got to test not guess. I mean, that’s…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm–
Evan Brand: …the whole philosophy behind this. So, instead of guessing, like— like what I did for a bit. I thought, “Huh? What— What’s going on?” And, you were like, “Hey, man. Let’s— Let’s get your Thyroid checked.” And I thought, “Well— you know, and look at the Iron too while I’m at it. If I’m gonna get poked, I might as well maximize my blood draw and get as many things run as I can. And uh— I ran a uh— a Lyme co-infection thing too, because I told you I had this weird sensation in my head, like somebody was pouring a warm water over my brain. And I thought, “Okay. Maybe that’s Babesia ‘cause I’ve already pulled off several ticks this year.” Uh— Ticks are [stutters] extremely bad issue and I’ve already gotten bit several times. So, uh— it was luckily not Babesia. And, no other infections that were active showed up. So, uh— I’m thinking. I’m not gonna say I found the root of end all roots, but I think I’m on to something pretty big here.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And it’s good. I’m glad that, you know, you also ran that full Iron panel with the CNP. That’s great. And, typically running a Comprehensive Metabolic Panel or Comprehensive Bioscreen, like we did with you, is a great way ‘cause then you can look at all the liver markers, the protein markers. You can look at the full CBC. You can look at all the Immune cells. You can look at the Vitamin D, the inflammation, the full Thyroid panel. And again, reverse T3, uhm— which was very elevated with you as well. That’s gonna happen in the liver. A lot of that reverse T3 will come from the liver as a way of binding up the thyroid. And, it could be some adrenal stress from that Iron, right? Remember, the high Iron symptoms can be adrenal dysfunction stuff so I think getting that Iron down will also help support your adrenals and also help support your heart, too. So, that gets a really good thing we discovered there.
Evan Brand: Yup. Uh— I agree. And I know, we got to make this one short and sweet, but I just have one more comment, which is that, you know, as a practitioner, Dr. J and I are always trying to figure out, “Okay. What’s the biggest priority for someone in terms of lab testing?” So, we’re generally gonna run several lab tests right away, you know, a lot of Functional Medicine labs. But, this just goes to show that you can’t downplay the benefits or the potential benefits of getting blood drawn. And if you have health insurance, you have a conventional doctor, that’s gonna listen to you— Like I mentioned, they’re not gonna do Ferritin unless you force them to. They’re just gonna run, maybe, your total Iron, and that’s it. And I wouldn’t have found this problem if I didn’t run more comprehensive labs. And so, sometimes, we have clients that say, “Oh! Dr. J, you know, I only can afford to do this or that test,” and it puts us in a really hard situation because it’s like, “Okay. Based on your case, and maybe we’ll say this for— for part two Justin, uh— ‘cause we wanted to chat more about other sources of fatigue, which could be Mitochondria, Adrenal related, Liver related, Lyme co-infection related. So, like, this Fatigue umbrella, you know— Justin and I might say, “Oh! You know, we think it’s gut infections or we think it’s this or that, but if we’re only able to do one lab test— like, “Okay. We found the Ferritin for me, so maybe that’s why I had a couple of random Heart Palpitations?” But, then, we got to make sure we get the gut work to look for the infections which I did and I was clear. Then, we got the blood work to make sure I didn’t have Lyme and co-infections. That was clear. So, it’s like, if you’re only getting a 20% work up, you’re still missing some other potential big pieces of your puzzle. So, really, really, really, eventually make sure everyone listening, you get your full work up. You don’t just want to get the blood. You don’t just want the adrenal test. You don’t want just the Stool test. You got to get all of it because you’re missing stuff if you don’t.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. I say some of the false positives that we could see is high amounts of inflammation can increase our Iron levels ‘cause that’s creating inflammation and then we have this Oxidative reaction.
Evan Brand: True.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And that can increase our Iron levels. So, we could have a false positive of very high Iron. We’d see Ferritin really high, and we may see Iron saturation normal, right?
Evan Brand: Well, the good thing is I could— I could rule that out though. Now I don’t have my HSCRP from blood but I do have my Calprotectin…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hmhm—
Evan Brand: …from my Stool panel, and it was in— it was in range. So, I at least know that gut inflammation is not there. But [crosstalk] I don’t know—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: With you, I don’t think it’s an issue because you also had very high levels of Iron saturation, as well. You had high levels of Iron Saturation and high Ferritin. But, let’s say, you may have just had high Iron or l— high Ferritin, right? Ferritin is a storage for my Iron. Iron Serum is what’s in the blood. Ferritin is kind of the storage of that. And then, Iron Saturation is kind of helpful to sellers so you may have Iron Saturation normal, Ferritin really high. Then, if we saw that, I want to look at other inflammatory markers.
Evan Brand: Oh, yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Homocysteine, uh— C-Reactive Protein, maybe a Erythrocyte Sedimentary Rate, ESR, just to get a window to see how other inflammatory markers look. Let’s look at the liver enzymes and such as well ‘cause those mays— the— they may be elevated if there’s a lot of inflammation. ‘Cause we want to make sure is it just an Iron thing or is there an inflammation thing? Now the nice thing about it is, if you go and get blood, that’s not necessarily a bad thing, right? So, it’s not gonna hurt you either way, but again, we want to make sure if it’s an inflammation thing we want to get to the root cause of that inflammation. Whether it’s in the guts, or whether it’s with Sress or a Malabsorption thing, the nice thing is Curcumin, which help drop Iron is also a nice anti-inflammatory. So, either way, I don’t see— If you want to do like a Curcumin Supreme or a Liposomal c— Curcumin, like the one that I provide, that’s great. If you want to go give a Therapeutic Phlebotomy, that’s great. If you want to go give uh— do a nice sauna session like Evan suggested, I think all those solutions are good and there’s not really a big downside to either one of those.
Evan Brand: Agreed. I think the only downside would be if you’re giving blood and you were incorrect about— as you mentioned, maybe it were just a Ferritin issue, but Iron was okay, you could push yourself towards the Anemia. Like if Iron was maybe riding the sweet spot or kind of on the low end, but Ferritin for some reason was high, then you did uh— the big blood donation like I did, yo— you might actually make Anemia worse. So, I do agree with you. You’ve got to find the root cause of why the Ferritin was up in the first place. Was it inflammation from something?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I mean, if your Iron was low, you’d see it. You’d see, you know, the IBC and UIBC on the higher side. You see some of those markers, the Iron saturation below 25/20, Ferritin below 30. And a lot of times, if you’re a cycling female, uhm— they’re gonna do a prick of your blood. They’re gonna drop it into the solution and see how fast it drops, right? The faster it drops, uhm— that’s uh— an instant sign that you’re Anemic. And also, if you’re a Vegan Vegetarian, if you have any of the history of excessive menstruation. That’s gonna be a pretty good tell. So, if you’re listening to that and you may want to avoid doing that, the Therapeutic Phlebotomy stuff until you see a good functional medicine uh— practitioner like myself or Evan.
Evan Brand: Good. Good. Good. Anything else? I think we did good, man. We hit some of the therapies. We hit some of the lab markers to look for. We mentioned the testing, making sure you’re not just getting one piece of the puzzle. Anything else you think we missed?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: No. I think— I think we did a really good job. I just would ask everyone listening, give us a thumbs up. Give us a share. We appreciate it. We love doing these podcast live. I mean, no cue cards here, right? There’s no teleprompter that we’re reading off of here. Teleprompter-free. Uhm— We do see a lot of the questions coming in. We just ask that if you want to provide a question and you want us to kind of address it, we’re not gonna read the question up but I’ll interject the question into the conversation. But just try to make sure it’s about the topic. If you go on side topics, save the side topic issues for my live Q&A calls. I’m happy to deal with all the side topics then, but just try to keep every other question on the topic somewhat, at least tangentially.
Evan Brand: Cool. Cool. Cool. So, if you guys want to reach out for a consult, look up Dr. J himself, justinhealth.com. You can reach out. Schedule a call with him or his team. If you want to reach out to me, my site, evanbrand.com. We’re happy to help. Make sure you’re subscribed to the podcast because there are other pieces or content out there that you’ve probably not heard that are helpful. So, we’ve got hundreds of hours of free stuff. Don’t miss out. Go. Go. Go. Research.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And if someone wants to get their blood tested, I have a link to the Comprehensive Bioscreen. If you go to my site, justinhealth.com/shop and then click on lab tests, you’ll see the Comprehensive Bioscreen, which will cover all the tests we chatted about today. And I’ll put the link below in the YouTube videos if you want to just grab that and run over to your local Quest now to get it done. That’s a great first assessment. I know Evan probably has some similar labs on his site as well.
Evan Brand: Yep. So, just to be clear how that works for Justin. So, if you are not even a client in his clinic, you can purchase the lab test. His office contacts the lab. They give you a piece of paper. You take that piece of paper. No doctor needed. Dr. J is kind of your man. He replaces the doc, and then you go to your local LabCorp. You get the blood draw, and then, Justin and his team send you the results in an email. And if you want to work with them, do it. If you want to just take your labs and r— review it yourself, then you can do that too. But, this is saving you a trip to the GP to try to beg them to run these markers. Justin’s blood tests is gonna be something more comprehensive.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. Well, hey! What a great chat today here, Evan. Looking forward to chat again next week. And then, if you’re listening, thyroidresetsummit.com. Thyroidresetsummit.com, click the link below. My summit’s coming up this fall— Best Thyroid experts in the world. Evan Brand, yours truly, we’ll be there. Myself, I’m also interviewed so really excited for that. Evan, what a great chat today, man.
Evan Brand: Take care.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey! You too. Take care. Bye now.
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