Thyroid Reset Summit | Podcast #218

Thyroid Reset Summit is here! It is Dr. J’s compilation of expert interviews and advances talks on the topic of thyroid health. Don’t wait, don’t suffer, support your thyroid now!

In today’s podcast, Dr. Justin Marchegiani and Evan Brand engage in talk that covers the compelling topics around areas of thyroid health like autoimmune thyroid, gut infections, trauma and stress and how that affects thyroid and hormones. Listen as they discuss live interactive podcast with viewers and gain insights about the issues involved in thyroid and ways that go to the root cause to address them. Stay tuned for more!

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

In this episode, we cover:

03:00    Trauma

06:41    Reverse T-3

14:19    Maca and Hypothyroidism

19:55    Molecular Mimicry

26:28    Iodine and Iodide

28:03    Low Dose Naltrexone (LDN) and Hashimoto’s

30:38    Desiccated Thyroid

32:01    Natural Thyroid Glandular

37:37    Nascent Iodine

40:38    Oxalates and Hashimoto’s

44:09    Thyroid Replete or Balance

46:50    Candida Overgrowth and Kale Intolerance

Youtube-icon

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey guys, it’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani here. Guess what’s up, the Thyroid Reset Summit is live today. So, make sure you click below, there’ll be links where you can access the summit, make sure you register. I’m giving up my full, free 88-page eBook, it’s the first 3 chapters in my 12-chapter book, it’s gonna be amazing. I’m here with Evan Brand as well. Evan’s a- was a phenomenal interviews as well. So, make sure you subscribe to go access Evan’s interview. There’s gonna be links below where you guys can access it all, I appreciate it. Evan, welcome today’s chat, I’m excited that thyroid summit is here.

Evan Brand: Yeah, I’m excited too. Your talk is today. So, if people wanna hear me interviewing you, that’s a day 1 of the summit. So, your pretty face is on there, and you great- you gave a stellar interview, and there’s already tons of good comments, we were just reviewing that together, there’s tons of good comments and feedback coming in already on the summit and we’re still in like, you know, day 1. So, this is like the open house so to speak, of the summit. If people, you know, have been living under a rock, or they just don’t know how summits work. Basically, what it is, is Justin put together 30+ expert interviews. These are anywhere between 30 and 45 minutes in length, and they’re all on the topic of thyroid health. So we- he’s gonna get in to anything from autoimmune thyroid to gut infections and thyroid, to mitochondria and thyroid, to chemical toxins to trauma, and stress and how that affects thyroid and hormones. So, each different expert has their own unique view, and he make sure to extract as much information as he can, it’s all free. You just register free. So, thyroidresetsummit.com, you go there, you register free, put your name, your email in, you can access it as long as you get on your computer or your phone, on the day of the talk, you can access about 5 talks for free every day for a week. And then after a week, depending on what your all’s feedback is, they’ll probably do an on-core, you get one last chance to view him for free, and then, what I recommend you do, is you buy the summit, it supports Justin, it supports the mission, it gets his information out to the masses because your average doctor is not having the type of conversations that Justin is having on this summit. These are conversations that are very advanced. And something that’s still broken down, simply free to understand, but in terms of timeline here, it could be another 10 years before mainstream doctors are even addressing the stuff that’s being discussed now. So, don’t wait, don’t suffer. Buy the talks, it ends up being like 50 bucks or something. That’s ridiculous how cheap it is, and you could own all 30 talks, you’ll get transcripts, etc. Is Justin paying me to promote this thing? No, he’s not, it’s just freaking awesome and I’ve already read the book. And, the book is amazing, and the summit is amazing. So, please buy it and support him so he can keep buying grass-fed stakes so- he’d to stay healthy so that he can do a podcast with me.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I appreciate that Evan, thanks so much. So, I just, you know, being a thyroid expert and also being a part of the summit yourself, what are some of the topics that you feel like were most compelling for you in and around the area of thyroid? I have a couple in my mind but, what reason they would give the most?

Evan Brand: Oh, man. Well, I would say the ones on trauma. Uh, you’ve got ___[03:03] on there, which is just incredible, because, I think trauma is something that, well, we already know this, uh- a- as Americans, we repress our emotions, we repress our traumas, we try to just move on, we ignore traumas, we throw ’em under the carpet and we just don’t wanna talk about this stuff, but what you and Nicky discussed was amazing which is the fact that, depending on how your childhood uh, was. You talked about the ACE score, the Adverse-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: -Childhood Experiences score-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Evan Brand: -and how- what you all are seeing. And I’m seeing the same thing too, is that, the higher the ACE score, the more likely it is that you’re gonna have a problem, and it could be a thyroid, and/or an autoimmune thyroid problem, all linked back to something 20 years ago. And so, you all had a great discussion about, well, how do you start working on these things that happen to you? It’s not to say, “Hey, we need to go back to counseling, and, you know, go take the guy into counseling with you, who beat you up 20 years ago, it’s not that, it’s no, there’s ways you can clear these traumas from your body, and a lot of it is free. So, I think that’s probably the most powerful starting place.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and also a lot of these traumas too, they affect the HPA access. And, some people that they may have addressed the issue but, they’re kinda dealing with the collateral damage, whether it’s adrenal issues or gut issues, and- and/or compromising the immune system, maybe even infections just from all that stress, or maybe even they developed an ___[04:23] disorder which is created all kinds of adrenal and blood sugar and nutrient deficiencies. So, we gotta look at everything from the root cause. Okay, is the root cause addressed, okay good, and now, we gotta also do damage control as well. But, while fixing everything in a ___[04:37] root cause kind of, manner using nutrients and- and sport.

Evan Brand: Yeah, now, I will say, if you just focus on traumas and nothing else, and let’s say you start doing the EFT, the Emotional Freedom Technique which is the tapping that you and I both love. I love tapping. I’m gonna start tapping-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: I’m [crosstalk]… uh, so, when you start tapping, this is basically like acupuncture without the needles, so you’re helping to basically recalibrate your nervous system, so you’re not stuck in fight or flight. And I’ll do this, like if  I going stage or if I’m gonna go on an airplane, I’ll just tap, tap, tap, tap it out, and I just feel really good from it. And, there’s practitioners, this is such a powerful tool. There are practitioners that’s all they do, is tapping. Now, you and I, we both agree that tapping by itself is probably gonna be pretty limited, it’s not gonna be fixing root causes, but can they help reset the nervous system, which could therefore improve your thyroid health and potentially lower your thyroid antibodies? I would say, absolutely.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I mean, if you have significant unresolved traumas, especially in the area of sexual abuse, or just issues growing up. Uhm, even disorder stuff, control issues or any kind of abuse. I think it’s really important especially if- if I’m talking with a patient and, “Have you really fully adro- uh, you know, resolve that?”, “Can you go back and think about it, and talk about it, this is not really bring your emotion up let’s say, pass a 3 out of 10”. And if they can’t answer that, or you start to hear them sob on the phone, or on- on the video, and that tells me we gotta work on that. So, it really just depends on how much they’ve done to resolve and to move past that. Uhm, but, if- if they haven’t done- I have people that I refer out to, they had- they really dive in with that work for sure.

Evan Brand: Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: [Crosstalk]…that activates the sympathetic fight or flight kind of nervous system response and, if that keeps going, that can just be a drain on your adrenals. And we know how important a cortisol is to inflammation, and if we have thyroid issues and autoimmune thyroid, and we don’t have enough healthy levels of cortisol to- to deal with that stress, or if our cortisol levels had been depleted, uhm, the HPA access dysregulation that- that brain talking to the adrenals, that feedback loop is disrupted, that can definitely creates some major challenges for sure.

Evan Brand: Yeah. So, we should talk about reversed T-3. We actually had a question here from the Doc J.C., uh said, “Please go over the significance of reversed T-3. What range do you feel as optimal? It seems to be frequently ignored or not seems to be so significant. Thanks, looking forward to the summit”.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I hundred percent agree. Now, think of reversed T-3 as like metabolic blades for our metabolic uh, magazine, or gun- gun cartridge so to speak, right? We put all the bullets in it, uhm, the metabolic blades, they take up space where an actual metabolic bullet would be, we fire the gun, we get the noise but we have no bullet coming out. Basically, these reversed T-3 compounds, they’re blocking the receptor sites; every single cell in the body has receptor sites for thyroid hormone. So, when we had excess, reversed T-3, it’s gonna clog up that receptor site for T-3, and it’s gonna decrease the ability for that T-3 to fill up the receptor sites. Also, you had T-4. Let’s say you have 80%- let’s say you have a higher percent of T-4 convert to reversed T-3 over T-3, it’s also robbing the ability for that T-3 to- to be fully expressed. So, imagine we have, let’s just say, let’s just say we have 10 units of T-4, alright? Just hypothetical numbers here. And let’s say we’ll typically converting 80% to T- to T-3, and 20% to reversed T-3, there’s naturally gonna be some reversed T-3 levels. Let’s say, anywhere between the low 10’s to the upper 10’s, right? Then you know that’s a good level, alright? That’s the actual lab reference range. In my analogy, let’s say we have 20% goin’ reversed T-3, 80% go into T-3, our actual metabolic active thyroid hormone. Well, typically, when stress starts to happen, low calorie diets, more stress, adrenal issues, inadequate levels of selenium, we may start to see a 70-30, a 60-40 split, where more of that building block is going to reversed T-3, less going to actual T-3. So, we’re having less T-3 but we’re also having the congestion of the receptor sites. So, that T-3 that’s now there, the lesser T-3 it’s there, it’s not able to dock in to that receptor site, the locking key methods not able to go in because someone put gum in the keyholes, so to speak.

Evan Brand: Yeah, great analogy. So, let’s take it a step further. So, what happens then? ‘Cause you and I , we’ve tracked my blood for several years, little that I know, I was living with mold, and that mold was messing up my thyroid, that was part of the problem, I had elevated reverse T-3, and you and I been looked at and we’ve been like, “Okay, let’s look at gut”, “Okay, stool test is clean, let’s look at adrenals, okay, adrenals look decent. Well, where the heck was this reversed T-3 be coming from?”. I’ve- in my opinion, I believe it was all the stress that my immune system was dealing with because I had elevated white blood cell count, at the same time as I had elevated reverse T-3. So, it’s not that it changed my game plan of my protocol at all, it was really just an indicator of “Okay, so here’s why I probably have cold hands, cold feet, my body temperature was running like a 97.7. Unless you tell me I’m wrong, I think that was all related to that reversed T-3 being so high. I was in the 30’s.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup. Yup, it could’ve been. And we also know, you know, if you have a- a liver stress, right? Livers’ really important because it make enzymes that are gonna help activate thyroid hormone, and it also helps to clear reverse T-3. So, make sense over stress, glutathione form toxins in the environment that can affect our ability to clear it as well.

Evan Brand: Yeah, I think I was like 35, uh, on my [crosstalk]

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And again, how- you know, we can see low calorie diets, increased reverse T-3, that’s why- that’s why in the long run, cutting calories to lose weight doesn’t work ’cause it just slows down your thyroid. So, then when you come back to reality and you actually are eating a normal amount of food, now, your metabolism slower, so now you end up storing more fat on the buckets.

Evan Brand: You wanna know something crazy related to hormones and-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: -gaining weight and all that? So, something that I learned the past few weeks, is that mycotoxins can actually bind to your leptin receptor. And this is why some people have gained weight on like 800 to a thousand calories is ’cause the mycotoxins are preventing leptin signaling from working properly.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I know. I had a conversation with Dave Asprey a couple of years ago. There’s a compound called the Zearalenone. It’s- it’s a mold kind of herpes that actually put into the ears of these cows. And the Zearalenone literally causes the cows to convert more of their calories to fat.

Evan Brand: Oh my gosh.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s what it does. So, they would use some of these connection-

Evan Brand: And that’s a mycotoxin?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s a mycotoxin, they put it in their- in the cow’s ear, be the- like a little pellet-

Evan Brand: Oh.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -and they re-absorb it through the ear canal. And this is, you know, first hand from Dave Asprey. And it will cause more fat gain, so it would allow them to convert more calories to fat which, you know, bottom line, more weight on scale, so, more- uh, more cost per cow, so to speak, ’cause it’s all weight-driven. So, yeah, mold and mycotoxins are- are a big one, alright? And we’ll do another podcast on that-

Evan Brand: I did another interview- if I did another interview on your summit, my whole talk would be about thyroid and mold because I’ve had tons of hypothyroid symptoms. Now, I still have 6 pack abs, I’m still ripped, uh but I had like cold body temperature, cold hands, cold feet and all that related to mold. So, if I did an “Evan on Justin’s Summit Part 2” it would be all about mold and how I think so many people with thyroid problems probably have mold in their house that’s helping to destroy their immune system and cranking up reversed T-3, elevating liver enzymes, reducing detoxification, and the body’s got to try to focus on mold, and then they can’t focus on other stuffs-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: -so then chemical toxins get built up, it seems like a huge like lynchpin.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I- and the only thing I would add is do all the- the natural- do all the things first and leave that to the end-

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -because, you did it that way too. And then we saw there was an issue and then we dealt with it on the back end, uhm, my biggest concern is mold and things like that can be- can be more in the expensive side, and it can be a rat hole for some people, meaning, if they do the foundational things first, they may get some significant relief upfront, and it won’t be as cost- it won’t be as costly as dealing with the- the mold in the back end. But, some people-

Evan Brand: It won’t be as overwhelming.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And the only exception being, hey there’s active leak, you got water stains on your ceiling, uhm, you know, there’s- there’s an act- you can actually actively visualize mold or water leaking, then I would say that it has to be dealt with right away. [crosstalk].

Evan Brand: I’ve- I’ve probably stayed afloat a lot longer than I did before I developed a lot of major symptoms because I had all the foundations in order-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Evan Brand: And so that’s- that’s why the summit is gonna be key- it’s not to- it’s not designed to replace a consultation with Justin if you have thyroid problems, you still need to consult with Justin, for sure, but this is more designed for you to get the information you need for you to get the questions answered that you have in your head. And once you have all those questions answered, you’re gonna learn more about types of thyroid lab testing that you need to run reversed T-3 being one of those markers. These are things you can bring up to your endocrinologist or your GP and tell them, “Hey, I heard on this summit, this guy Dr. Justin talked about “XYZ”, can you do that for me?”. And we’ve had clients report back to us and say, “Hey…”, you know, “…thanks to you, or thanks to your podcast, I was able to get this and this, and this run on my blood work, and my doctor only ran it because I asked them to”. So if you just go with the status quo, you’re probably not gonna get the result you’re looking for from the mainstream. Now, if you find a really good endocrinologist or a doc that’s gonna listen and run these extra important thyroid markers that are not generally run, you may be able to make them work, or you gotta go to the functional side. My opinion, I’m gonna say go to the functional side, ’cause your endocrinologist is never gonna look at the stuff Justin’s looking at and saying, “Hey, you know, these bacterial infections do this; this parasite does this”, it’s the last thing you’re gonna hear from them. They’re gonna say, “Oh, you can go to an infectious disease doctor, you think you have parasites?” And then they’ll just refer you out and you’ll go nowhere. That’s why we’re kinda generalist and specialist on the same token.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly, that’s really good point. Let’s kinda dive in to the next question here, let me pull it up. Uhm… let’s talk about Maca. Maca and hypothyroidism. So, number 1, if we see- Maca’s gonna be really good especially for women. Uhm, there are some good Maca forms for men too but it’s gonna really help modulate estrogen levels that can even help with progesterone levels. So, why is this helpful? If we have estrogen dominance, that can definitely increase thyroid binding globulin and decrease the amount of free thyroid hormone. So, it can definitely lower our free thyroid hormones. So, if we modulate our female hormones and improve that balance in that estrogen and progesterone ratio that can definitely improve the amount of biologically active thyroid hormone. Also, for in a, estrogen dominant state, we need good levels of progesterone. And progesterone help stimulate thyroid peroxidase and make thyroid hormones. So, good enzyme activity from TPO is important, and that can help make thyroid hormone. So, good levels of progesterone help with that as well.

Evan Brand: Can you talk a little bit about age? I mean, this is something that you ask your average women, aged 15 above, they’re gonna say, “Oh, my thyroid”, or “Oh, my hormones”. Can you talk about kind of what happens when you’re transitioning from a normal cycling female to you go into perimenopause- menopause ___[15:33] when you go to those stages. And ___[15:36] to say, “Oh, oh it’s my hormones”.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Yeah. So, in general, typically, women may start their perimenopausal phase in their early 40’s. This is where like a lot of these menopausal symptoms start to happen. Whether it’s skipping a cycle, mild hot flashes, mild hair loss, mood issues. And again, it’s- it’s- it can be- it’s hard to distinguish perimenopause and just PMS and cy- and cyclical hormone imbalances. Especially where I see a lot of these symptoms happening with women in their 20 and 30’s, it’s hard to distinguish, but you’re typically seeing some of these menopausal symptoms, they may happen throughout the month, where the premenstrual symptom that are just tend- tending to happen a week, maybe a couple days, sometimes 2 weeks before period. So, you- you gotta look at it and distinguish. Typically, what’s happening is you’re having a decreased ovarian reserve and then the estrogen and the progesterone are starting to drop. And sometimes you see estrogen drop a little bit slower than progesterone, so then you still have low hormones, yet still have estrogen dominance. And again, perimenopause is done once you’ve had cycle for one year. So you have that kind of in between phase and lower adrenal functions in a predisposed at because your adrenals are making a lot of precursor hormone that’s gonna provide building blocks for your sex hormones. So, lower adrenal function, cortisol stress, HPA access stress, that communication from the brain to the adrenals, when that’s dysregulated, you’re draining that backup ge- battery generator to help make more of the hormones. So, when that follicle starts to drop, then the adrenals gonna help pick up the slack.

Evan Brand: So, would you say all women post-menopausal should be on some type of adaptogenic herb hormone support, and can that replace or remove the need for like bioidenticals?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It depends how strong their hormones are, uh, it depends how strong their adrenal glands are already.

Evan Brand: Okay.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Number 1. And number 2, it depends on how severe their symptoms are.

Evan Brand: Okay.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, we’ll use specific phenotypes of Maca for perimenopausal women or menopausal women, that can help, some do need adrenal support obviously than some may need some of the bioidentical progesterone, estrogen support, it just depends on their severity of symptoms, how long it’s been going on for, and how their hormones look, adrenal wise, female wise and thyroid. And this is where it stop because hair loss, it’s a thyroid symptom but also lower female hormones can cause it too. So, so can like cool their temperature when waking, that could be a thyroid issue, it could be a female hormone issue. This is why testing is so important. It really allows you to like, walk into the situation clinically, feeling like you’re on top of what’s going on.

Evan Brand: Yup, well said. And- and, I wonder, does that change much? If a woman’s had like a partial or a full hysterectomy, or maybe she’s got her ovaries gone, the uterus is gone, is that like, hey, there’s no way adaptogenic adrenal support’s gonna help you?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, soon as they go- as soon as they have a uhm- a full hysterectomy where the ovaries are gone, they’re menopausal right away, right? So, they’re automatically in menopause. If it’s a partial hysterectomy where the uterus is gone, typically that’s happening from maybe a fibroid, maybe some endometriosis. Uh, a lot of times it’s done in- in haste because there’s excessive bleeding or he- hemorrhagia, and the doctor’s like, let’s just pull it out which is crazy like, let’s fix the hormones, let’s fix the underlying issue, a lot of times you can keep your uterus. Now, there’s some literature, you know, if you look at some of the endocrinology techs, there’s some people saying that, “Hey…”, you know, “…your uterus maybe producing some level of hormone. So, it’s possible that you keep your ovaries, you get your uterus removed, but you- there’s still maybe some hormone stuff that happens, right?

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s kinda like with guys and they get a vasectomy, there are some research showing it, you can still have a drop-in testosterone after vasectomy. What happened? You didn’t touch the testicles, right? But when you mess around with that anatomy there’s probably some feedback loops that are disrupted, there’s probably some hormonal secretion that’s happening from that tissue that were not quite, you know, fully aware of. So, that’s why when in doubt, always try to keep the tissue in place-

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -if you can.

Evan Brand: It’s crazy. I mean, for to think, oh, it has no purpose when you’re aged 60 just ’cause you’re not menstruating, those organs have no purpose. That’s- that’s bizarre. Yeah, I mean, if you have no purpose anymore, it would come out just like a placenta comes out after a woman delivers a baby. That organ is there, and then that organ is not needed anymore, and the mom pushes the placenta out and then you’re done. You don’t push out the uterus. So, it- it needs to be there.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. It definitely needs to be there for sure. So, uhm, on that road, I think we answered that question.

Evan Brand: I’ve got another question for you.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: Okay. So, we got one here, “Can you discuss molecular mimicry?”.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, so, diff- i- in general, we have surface proteins on foods, especially gluten and casein, and these surface proteins, they get tagged by our immune system. And there are other surface proteins on tissue in the body like the thyroid that can look similar. So, imagine you have someone who just did a- a crime, and they’re driving a black Honda Civic. Well, Honda Civics are pretty popular car. Please come on the AP- you know, on the radio, APB, you know, be careful and just person, and the authorities driving a black Honda Civic. They’re driving the Honda Civic, you get pulled over. Why? Because you have a similar identification that was called on the APB there. So, what does that mean? Its surface proteins can be similar, and so of course, when that APB is called up by your immune system, A.K.A, the immune system makes antibodies to target these surface protein, and other tissues have a similar surface protein like the thyroid, then that can, uh, your immune system can attack it. And that’s why you’re see- that’s why gluten is such a big deal. Also, gluten also opens the gut lining. And when the gut lining’s more open and we have gut permeability or leaky gut kind of the slang, there’s more chance of your immune system to get in contact with undigested foods and create more antibodies for more stuff. So, leaky gut’s a big thing and, there’s a lot of data saying, “Hey, even if you’re not reacting to the gluten, gluten may still be opening up that gut lining, creating more gut permeability”.

Evan Brand: Well, here’s one other thing to take it even further on the anti-gluten train, which is the fact that people say, “Oh, I’m not sensitive to gluten, I don’t have any rashes, I don’t have any headaches, I don’t notice joint pain after gluten. It doesn’t matter, we’ve seen, and many, many, many pieces of literature, just google “Non celiac gluten sensitivity” and you could read about it for yourself. Even if a person that says, “I noticed…” quote, “nothing”, from eating gluten. We still notice that the secretory IgA gets lower, that gut barrier gets broken open, you get leaky gut. There’s no like, “I’m a tuff guy, I grew up in Wisconsin, grew in corn and I eat corn and gluten and I love it”, no, it doesn’t matter. You’re gonna have a leaky gut no matter if you noticed anything or not and, why is that important for thyroid health, wll, ’cause once a gut’s leaky, now, let’s say you get bacteria and parasites and toxins from the food supply, you breath in some guy’s diesel truck in front of you on the highway, those toxins have direct access to the bloodstream. And we know that when the gut is leaky, the blood brain barrier is also gonna be leaky, and then you’re getting toxins into the brain. So, you go and need some tuna fish on your night out and sushi, and that mercury can go into your brain now because your gut was leaky and they had access. So, you know, I kinda have like a zero tolerance, you know, policy. I like how, uh Rodney Ford, he was a gastro doc I had on a podcast-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: -like, 7 years ago or some crazy, as if one of the first steps which I did. He said, I don’t like to term gluten-free, he said I like to term gluten-zero, because gluten-free sounds- you- you know, just like it’s toys or like, it’s- it’s a rec- it’s a recommendation. But he said, the idea of gluten-zero, is much more direct and blunt. It’s like, “no”, you don’t want any. Because even we’ve seen we- you and I, we test the antibodies, we look at anti gliadin IgA on the stool test, and what we see is that, even up to 3 months, 4 months after somebody’s had gluten, you know, here we are in early March, at the time of this recording, someone could had a bunch of cookies at Christmas and we could still see 3 months later, the antibodies elevated because of that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, so, I mean, I’m pretty puritanical when it comes to gluten. I will- I met- I do have a cinnamon bun last night but it was gluten free, and I typically never cheat, I ended up getting within 30 minutes after the sore throat, and it’s lingering right now. I’m doing some-

Evan Brand: No way.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -essential oil lozenges to help- help [crosstalk].

Evan Brand: Rice flour, what was it that did that to you?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It was rice flo- it was rice flour, and it could have been just the carbs, it was pretty carb-heavy. But, you know, it just makes me think like, there’s one more sin in the fridge, am I gonna have it tonight? Hell no, you know?

Evan Brand: [Laughs]

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’ll- for my cheat, I’ll do my ___[23:49] chips and some fresh homemade guacamole instead for my little kraut treat. But yeah, e- even that, I still had the decision, you know, should I stop at dunkin doughnuts and get like the awesome cinnamon bun that I have memories of 20 years ago, when I used to eat lots good food but, now, I at least chose the healthier option, but still, I kind recalibrate and say it still not worth it. So, try to find the healthier option if you want a spurge. If you’re autoimmune condition’s under control and you don’t have an autoimmune condition, maybe you spurge every now and then on the holidays. My recommendation though is, you find a healthier option, and if you have thyroid antibodies, you definitely need to. I have thyroid antibodies, so you really gotta make sure that you’re on the right track. There’s a lot of healthy options these days. It’s crazy, I mean, I had some- some I think it was uh, Danielle Walkers got a new pizza that’s like, a yuca based pizza, and it’s freakin’ awesome. It’s really good, and the crust is great. It’s a little carb heavy, so I save it for my carb night, but uhm, it’s a great pizza.

Evan Brand: Wow, she makes it?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, it’s in the whole food section now, it’s frozen. But it’s a yuca based crust.

Evan Brand: And is it already, uh, it’s just a crust and you gotta put all your own toppings? Or-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: No, it’s got everything on it already. But she’s got some I think where you can buy without the toppings. But I just love yuca for crust ’cause yucas just like- it’s a soft, it’s really uhm, moist too.

Evan Brand: I’ll have to look for it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: I- I wanna point out what you said. I think it’s very important which is that, you may go off your diet for a bit and play with this food and play with that food is kind of a treat, but like you said, it’s not worth it. And, you know, people think when we come up with a diet protocol for ’em, then it’s like a diet of depravation. But overall, I would say you and I are not deprived at all. We’re eating good fats, good meats, good veggies, I mean, this is not a deprivation or starvation diet required.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: No, I mean, last night for dinner, I had a dry aged Kansas City strip steak, step 4 from wholefoods. And, I had it last night with some green beans and grass-fed butter and some sea salt, and it was phenomenal. So, I should have eat really good like that, like, keep it simple, you know. The night before that, we threw some stuff in the instapot, 40 minutes later, some vegetable. I think we had some celeries, some uhm, carrot, and some chicken, it was great. I mean, keep it really simple, easy.

Evan Brand: I did some haddick last night-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm-hmm.

Evan Brand: I had couple different fish, I had some haddick and some cod, and then we did some sweet potato fries that we baked, and then we did some broccoli. My wife is all into fresh broccoli now, because we were doing frozen broccoli, but it’s a game changer to do fresh. So, uh, hopefully when I get my garden, we’ve got snow on the ground, hopefully I can get my garden going and get some fresh broccoli. Last year, even despite my really good fencing operation around my- around my race guard bed, those darn rabbits, it ate on my broccoli, so I didn’t get any, I had to buy it all to store [chuckles], or the farmer’s market.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh, hundred percent man, that’s really cool. Uhm, very cool. Let’s talk about- someone asked about “Iodine and iodide”. So, basically, iodide is the ion form of Iodine. So, you have basically uh, the chemical structure of iodine is- is 2 molecules of iodine, and so essentially, iodine is one. So, typically, iodine’s bonded to a salt whether it’s a sodium salts or a potassium salts, and then in your body, your body converts it and- and puts it together and makes iodine out of it. So, you can have one molecule’s iodide, 2 is iodine, you take it and the it converts it in the body and it goes to through iodination and it- it can makes it iodine.

Evan Brand: How do you approach that with clients in terms of supplementing?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I typically use a potassium iodide.

Evan Brand: Yup. How often do you supplement it, is that something where it’s like, yup, a little amount is always gonna be okay ’cause there was a whole, you know fear mongering about “Oh, you know, supplementing iodine could- or iodine can uh… increase your thyroid antibodies”, but I’ve not found that to be true, let alone know.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, I mean, it’s potential, but, if someone has active thyroid autoimmune stuff, we just don’t go more than the RDA which is between 150 to 250 micrograms.

Evan Brand: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And if we see they’re stable, and/or they don’t have any that we may play around with going up to a gram or maybe a 1.3 gra- uh- sorry, 1.3 mg, 1.5 mg, alright? RDA’s a 150 to 250 micrograms. So, typically, within 5 or 10 x of the RDA.

Evan Brand: Okay.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It can. It- there’s a lot of data in the literature on that. So, uhm, I can just tell you, I see people go too high in iodine and lose their hair.

Evan Brand: Oooh.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, you gotta be careful.

Evan Brand: Wow. I’ve got another question for you if you’re ready.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm-hmm.

Evan Brand: Uh, a little one here rom Doc Jacey-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: “What is your take on using LDN for hashimoto patients? I do see the antibodies dropping and symptoms improved. Curious, if you’ve seen the same”.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. So, first off, it’s not the first place I go, the low-hanging fruit’s gonna be, uhm, obviously uh, autoimmune template to start getting good nutrients onboard, getting enough selenium onboard, CoQ10, magnesium, these are really important. Then after that, I would go to like curcumin, uhm, curcumin, things like that fur, you know, fur. So, it’d be the first things I would get in there first. You could even play around with resveratrol, uhm, I would do that first, and then maybe even CBD. I would try to do CBD over LDN, but I had seen some people do okay in LDN. I’ve seen some people do worse on LDN. So, I try to go to the more natural compounds first before I go to uh, an ___[28:54] blocking drug.

Evan Brand: Agreed. And I can’t prescribe it. So, even if I could, I wouldn’t because I’m, you know, my toolbox is limited to using natural professional grade products and nutrients and herbs, so I just don’t even have it on the table for me, so I just have to assume that I gotta fix the issue with other things. And you and I’ve seen hundreds of times that, when we just fix the gut, we’ve seen antibodies drop from it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: 2000, 3000 to sub-500-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: Just [crosstalk]… the gut and changing nothing else.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I mean, the gut’s obviously the next big component. But supplement wise, curcumin, resveratrol, selenium, CoQ10, magnesium, a- autoimmune template, and then of course working on the digestion, working through all the 6 hours. Enzymes [crosstalk]… bad foods, replacing digestive support, hormones, moving infections, re-inoculating, repopulating probiotics and then retest it.

Evan Brand: We’ve got a couple other questions here. What’s your- what’s your schedule look like? How much time you got left?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I got enough time, I got 10 minutes here.

Evan Brand: Perfect. I’ll just uh, give people another plug. If you haven’t register to Justin’s summit, please do. thyroidresetsummit.com, it’s great. If you’re like geekin’ out on this, you’re about to geek out times 30 for the next week. Every day, you’re gonna get to hear Justin in your ear for like 6 hours. So, better put some headphones on, get your nice cup of camel milk tea and sit down and have a good listen. And uh, Justin did videos too, so that’s cool. If you wanna see the interviews, as opposed to just listening, you can do both, and if you end up buying his summit, you do get transcripts. So, I know, we’re getting a little, yo know, a little tricky, a little complicated sometimes in these interviews, you may want to have the transcript available so you can refer back to that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wonderful. Hundred percent. [crosstalk]

Evan Brand: Yeah, so that’s my plug. And uh, the next question from Colin is, “Any recommendations for…”, he said, “dedicated” but he meant desiccated, and we know what you meant. So, “Any recommendations for desiccated thyroid? Have you heard of the company thyrovanz?”. And I have not.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I have not. I have not in my life. We have a product called thyrobalance that is a natural glands. We’re support- I use with my patients, that I’d formulated, I’ve- I love that, it’s for credit, I use it on thousands of patients. And uh, on the prescription side, I do like WP thyroid, it’s a very clean formula. Uh, NP thyroid is another newer one out that’s very similar to iron, it- it does have a little bit of maltodextrin from corn in there, so you gotta be a little careful. The other good ones gonna be Nature Throid. Supposedly Nature Throid has a couple more ingredients than WP. Some people, if you check out my summit interview with Guillermo Ruiz, we talked all about that but, he said, there just not have extra ingredients and the same formula but, if you look on the back, there is lactose Nature Throid, there’s no lactose in WP. So, WP is the cleanest but, he seems to think they are both uh, equivalent. So, Nature Throid, and/or WP will be kinda number 1 and 2, WP first, Nature Throid second if you’re gonna go the prescription road.

Evan Brand: Supposedly Acella, A-C-E-L-L-A, it’s supposed to be- [crosstalk].

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That too makes NP- That- that too makes NP.

Evan Brand: Oh, okay.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’m pretty sure, that too makes NP thyroid.

Evan Brand: Okay. Excellent. Alright. Uh, here’s another one-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And then just to be- to be hundred percent clear on the question though, is with a natural thyroid glandular, you’re getting T-4, which is typically all you get in a centroid  levoxyl levothyroxine support, but you’re also getting T-3, T-2, T-1, T-0, calcitonin and proto morphogenic proteins which are in there that was your natural growth factors and- and taking thyroid glandular can also help lower your antibody levels too which is great. So, if you need a great, we don’t wanna give it unless we need it.

Evan Brand: Yeah, I was gonna say how do you rate when you need it versus let’s say someone was on a prescription, you know, is it possible that they are not doing well their prescription like centroid, but they may do and feel better and be able to use a glandular instead of that with the help of their doctor getting them off of the drug.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, you know you’re gonna need it if 1 of 2 factors or both are- are there. TSH is elevated, that could be the conventional range which is 5 and a half on the east coast, 4 and a half on the west coast, or, I use the- uh- uhm- the Association of Clinical Endocrinologists standings, once there’s a- above 2 and a half, I’m careful, okay? We’re about 2 and a half, 3’s kind of my cut off, but, then I look at the free T-3 levels. I’d look at T-4, T-3, how’s that conversion happening, and is there adequate levels of T-3, at least 3.0 on a free T-3. If we see a little bit than that, we could look at symptoms and we’ll see if it’s necessary to do anything for on the fence or a close, and then adrenals are shut, we may leave it alone and go after the adrenals come back on that. ‘Caue sometimes that’s enough to fix it. If the adrenals look okay, or the thyroid’s very low, we’ll come in there with support, get the TSH under control so the brain’s not screaming at the thyroid and getting it swollen, and then we’ll also get that functional T-3 level up to an optimum range. You know, 50% of the reference range. So, typically above 3 or so. Other country is different, but you wanna be at least 50% in the reference range.

Evan Brand: With that, you’re saying, take care of everything else like adrenals and all that? You’re saying circle back to the thyroid gland- glandular is kind of a last stage effort you would approach adrenals, maybe thyroid nutrients first, before thyroid glandular?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: If we’re close- if we’re close. The only exceptional will be if the TSH is high, you know. Even if they didn’t have any symptoms but the TSH was high, let’s say above 3 to 4, then I would definitely look at putting that on a little bit sooner. If it was 3, I may hold off and just see maybe if we get the HPA access back on track, we’re good, if we’re on the 4 or up, I’m definitely gonna at least bring it down to 1 in the meantime.

Evan Brand: Okay, so, if we got a TSH of 5, we’ve got a free T-3 of 2, you’re saying, yeah, probably gonna need the glandular?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Definitely. Definitely need the glandular. Now, if we have a TSH of 3, and a T-3 of let’s say 3.2, that’s where it becomes very questionable. I’d wanna look at symptoms, and I wanna look at the thyroid, uh, the adrenals as well as the thyroid. And I probably- I’d probably say, let’s table doing anything directly with hormones on the thyroid for at least a month, and just focus on more nutrients and the adrenals and I come back and retest probably in 4 to 8 weeks and see where we’re at.

Evan Brand: Well said. We’ve seen massive swings in hormones in the right direction-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm-hmm.

Evan Brand: -just by focusing on adrenals, it blows my mind-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Evan Brand: -because I wasn’t someone that was comfortable with thyroid glandulars personally and recommending those to clients, I’d kind of stayed away from it, because I saw with doing rhodiola, and as you mentioned some of those special Maca extracts, and Ashwagandhas and Schisandra berries and helping the liver in detoxing, uh, and all of the sudden we looked and it’s like, whoa, TSH is normal. We didn’t even- we didn’t even try to focus on thyroid and it fixed itself, just with fixing the body, I love when that happens.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: A hundred percent. I love it. And we’re getting to the root cause, we’re not just gonna throw everything on- throw everyone on the same thing. We really try to individualize the approach, just [crosstalk].

Evan Brand: Uh, I’ve got a question here from Paul, “How is Calcium D-Glucarate daily for detoxification?”. We use Calcium D-Glucarate all the time.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, it’s in my the detox aminos product. It binds to estrogens, so it really helps aid in estrogen detoxification. So, if a woman has extra detox, or if we see estrogen levels with the guys as well, I mean, it’s good to help bind it and pull it out, so I think it’s great. Just wanna make sure that we’re also getting to the root cause. If it’s just part of the general detoxification program, I think it’s great. It’s gonna help with thyroid binding globulin, and help with increasing free T-3 if there’s excess estrogen.

Evan Brand: Yeah, I- I- I don’t use it in isolation, same thing as you. I do have within a liver support product-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Evan Brand: -our uh hormone support product, there’s kind of a couple things out there that we use will be blends of herbs plus Calcium D-Glucarate added in for PMS and, you know, breast tenderness and moodiness and irritability and all that stuff, we do see a Calcium D-Glucarate does move the needle.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hundred percent. Hundred percent. Next question.

Evan Brand: Uh, Laura gave us some feedback, “Thank you so very much for explaining crucial information about gluten. I have tried for years to get people to realize that gluten hurts us all”. I agree Laura, thank you for the feedback and some people have to hit rock bottom before they listen to you. So, unfortunately that’s a reality.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and again, some people, you know, they have the mindset of like, e- everything in moderation, it- it just depends. I don’t necessarily buy that, I mean, there’s probably never gonna be in the- in the- in a monitored amount of cocaine or methamphetamines that’ll ever do. But I get the fact that some people, you know, may not have that genetic predisposition. They may not have an autoimmune genetics that are active. But I just- I still think uhm- you gotta be careful if there’s an option to do something on the safer side on the gluten free, grain free side, it’s better. It’s- it’s better to do that. But I get why some people may feel like they- they get a little bit more freedom. You know, when you have a little bit more uhm, uh, health, so to speak, and a little bit less genetic predisposition, it makes sense why you do that.

Evan Brand: Yup. Got a question here, “My friend has hashimoto’s and only 20% of her thyroid. She tried nascent iodine and her face broke out with little lumps like pimples. Any idea why and what she can do to supplement iodine?”.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, if she has hashimoto’s, uhm I know that’s Dr. Group’s product, it’s a good iodine product, you just gotta be careful because you can go really high in it number 1, and that can elevate antibodies. Number 2, you could be pushing out other halides like bromine, right? And that could be causing the detoxification issue with the skin, is you’re pushing that out to the skin. [Crosstalk].

Evan Brand: Let me ask you this-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: This is- this is mind-blowing. So, that you’re saying that nascent iodine can kind of clear out that receptor site?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Potentially, but it could also activate autoimmunity if that’s there too. It could-

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -too high. So, I mean, if I were to do it, I would make sure that- if she’s my patient, we’re working for a few months, we’re stabilizing inflammation in the diet, all the other nutrients are present, ’cause with high amounts of iodine, the iodination process spits out hydrogen peroxide, H2O2, and with, inadequate selenium levels. Hydrogen peroxide’s inflammatory in the thyroid. So, with adequate selenium, we convert that H2O2, we pull off an oxygen to it and we make it H2O and make it water, something benign. So, we gotta be careful with the iodine and the lack of selenium, especially if antibodies are elevated.

Evan Brand: Yeah, well said. Selenium’s huge. That’s like, critical if you don’t address that, it’s very easy to fix that too. It’s like one of the cheapest supplements ever. Its funny people question the whole Brazil Nut thing, people say, “Oh, only a few Brazil Nuts per day is enough for selenium”. I’d look at some studies comparing that, like supplementation of actual selenium like chelated selenium versus a Brazil Nut, it actually surprisingly, the Brazil Nut actually held up, it actually did worked.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I mean, the big difference for the Brazil Nut is there’s like a uh, a 10 to 1 ratio of how much selenium could be there. So, it’s just you don’t know if you’re at- if you’re doing 2 or 3 Brazil Nuts, hoping for 20 or 40 microgram, or 200 microgram the selenium, you may get 20, you may get 30, right. That’s the problem with it. So, I think it’s okay if you wanna do 1 or 2, but I think at least get your insurance policy of 200 micrograms of selenium via supplement formula, that’s your insurance policy.

Evan Brand: Yeah, I l- I love the idea of food as medicine but I agree with you. That’s not something you wanna dabble with, like, why try to get it from Brazil Nut if you can spend $8 and get the best selenium product on the market in capsule form, and you know exactly what therapeutic dose you’re getting in terms of milligrams right there on the bowl versus, “Oh yeah! This is a big Brazil Nut! This must be 20 milligrams”, it’s like “No!”.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: E- exactly. And Brazil Nuts are commonly moldy too. So, if you have mold issues, there could be a problem there.

Evan Brand: [Crosstalk]

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You know, if you wanna 1 or 2, fine, but just get your 200 from- from supplement.

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: From selenium ___[40:20] primarily.

Evan Brand: Well, pesticides too, I’ve never seen organic Brazil Nuts on the market, I don’t want some sprayed.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I know, and then you also have the phytates and the other types of oxalate compounds in there too, for sure.

Evan Brand: I thought we had a question about oxalates. [Crosstalk]

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Someone asked about “How do oxalates affect your thyroid?”, I think, right?

Evan Brand: Yeah, here it is. “What are you guys know about high oxalates and Hashimoto’s? Is there a connection?”. Let me just say something first.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: What I’ve seen, is that high oxalates are directly can’t- uh, related to uh, high candida. We’ve seen a lot of yeast, like, when I see candida high, I always see oxalates high.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm-hmm.

Evan Brand: And then when you fix the candida, the oxalates magically go down. So, I would just throw- I would- I would kinda change that question and I would just say “What do you guys know about high oxalates, candida and Hashimoto’s?”, and I would say the answer is they’re all related.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, also, I would say that uhm, a lot of high oxalates foods are high goitrogens too. And these goitrogens can block iodine uptake. So, if you’re doing a lot of raw cruciferous vegetables, broccoli, cabbage, right? Uhm, those type of things that can easily block iodine uptake. If you’re doing a lot of it raw, that’s gonna really have some major impact. So, if you’re cooking it, you’re steaming it, you’re putting it in soups, you’re gonna have less in it for sure. But, you know, too much of that, if we have low thyroid, we gotta be careful with too much of that on the raw side ’cause that can definitely block our iodine uptake.

Evan Brand: I’m guessing you’ve seen raw vegans that have thyroid problems.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, yeah, I mean, that’s a huge thing. Also, raw vegans tend to not have enough protein to make other hormones, so they can have other problems going on too.

Evan Brand: Did you see that article that was a uh- uh- an article the other day that went kinda viral. This medical wrote, that the- the vegan diet killed my mother early? Did you read that?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: No. I think I heard of this though.

Evan Brand: Let me see if I can pull up-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Go ahead.

Evan Brand: -so I can say it, yeah. So, here it was, it was in the U.K., it was in London, this guy, Dr. Aseem, we may wanna get him on the podcast.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: He wrote a letter basically about this. And, yeah, he’s a cardiologist, his name’s Dr. Aseem, M-A-L-H-O-T-R-A. He said, my mother’s diet was full of ultra- aah, see here’s the thing I didn’t read before. Her diet was full of ultra-processed foods. So, talks about how uh, she was a vegan, her vegetarian rather, but, that she was consuming tons of, uh, biscuits, crisp and starchy carbohydrates. So, she probably had an unhealthy vegetarian diet. But the way-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: -he wrote it, made it just seem like the vegetarian diet overall, killed her but, no, she’s eating that crap, that makes sense.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, she’s on a lot of carbohydrates but, yeah, one thing that you’ll see, you know, this is good for anyone listening is, with vegans’ vegetarians, go look at their hands. ‘Cause what they’re doing is they’re getting a lot of plant-based, uhm- beta carotene, and they’re hoping that converts to Vitamin-A. With low thyroid, you’ll see a lot of the orange deposits or their hands, or their feet, ’cause they can’t convert that beta-carotene, the Vitamin-A, the active uhm, retinyl palmitate. Uh, and- and- Vitamin-A is important for the thyroid receptor sites. So, you’ll see with some of these vegan vegetarians, they’re not getting active Vitamin-A form animal products or Cod-Liver Oil, so you’ll see beta carotene deposits in their skin, orangy skin.

Evan Brand: Whoa! Well, I- you know, I always trip people out about looking at the ridges on your fingernails-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh yeah.

Evan Brand: -for [crosstalk], but now I have something else to look at, “hey, let me see your hands, I’m gonna look at your nails, now, I’m gonna look at your palms”.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I mean, it’s always good to look at it, just shouldn’t be excessively orange, but that’s a big thing. And Vitamin-A is really important for your thyroid, uhm, excellent sources of course are gonna be healthy, you know, egg yolks I think you’re gonna get it in, you’ll also see it in any type of high quality grass-fed meat, we’re gonna see it on Cod Liver Oil, and you’ll also gonna see it like liver glandular, for sure.

Evan Brand: There’s a question here which says a treatment-oriented questions so you’ll have to become a client of Justin if you wanna like dive in to supplements and protocols, but I’ll still read the question anyway incase Justin you wanna say something else.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: “With slightly low free T3, should…” uh, “…thyroid balance 1 capsule be taken every day?”, and “Dr. J., do you take your thyroid replete or balance?”.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I do not need my thyroid replete or balance. My T3 levels are above three and my TSH stays in the low-2’s or in the mid-1’s. So, I- I just don’t need it but, my Malte has enough selenium in there, and other nutrients uhm, for my thyroid to work. I- I just don’t need it based in my labs, so, I only recommend things that patients need that we can objectively quantify.

Evan Brand: Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: But in general, uhm, the levels are what again? Low [crosstalk]…

Evan Brand: …low free T3 , it was a 2.7.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, so, depending on the other symptoms that are going on there would depend on how the adrenals are doing. But that’s border line. What was the TSH?

Evan Brand: TSH, 1.3.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh, I probably would say no on that. I’d wanna look at the adrenals more thoroughly. I’d probably say no. Uh, I- I’m- I’m- for- if- if other- if TSH and T3 are- uh- TSH is good and T3 is close, I tend to say, “Let’s hold off and work more on nutrition and the adrenals”.

Evan Brand: See, here’s the problem though, we’re trying to get advice like that on YouTube or wherever else on internet, we know nothing about this guy, we don’t know how he sleeps, we don’t know he’s stressed, we don’t even know what his symptoms-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -Diet.

Evan Brand: -are, he may feel perfectly fine [crosstalk].

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, exactly.

Evan Brand: You may feel amazing, and then you’re trying to fix something that doesn’t really need to be fixed. If you feel amazing, you- you might not need do anything. So kinda, you know, don’t fix it if it’s not broken. Obviously, if we knew, “Hey I had terrible anxiety and heart palpitations and I couldn’t sleep, and I had skin rashes, and we have a more complete picture”, then Justin maybe able to say, “Well, you know, maybe your free T3 is a little low because of ‘XYZ’ and we can fix that, and here’s the data to prove what you got in the gut”.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, exactly. So, there could be other things that are causing it that- on the gut that only improve it. So, hold off, but, you wanna dive in and become a patient we can also talk a little bit deeper on that.

Evan Brand: Yup. Uhm, Missy, “Thanks for your summits, I’ve learned so much and appreciate both your time and knowledge”. Missy, it’s our pleasure.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Appreciate it. Then someone write in about potato juice curing diabetes type 2, it’s a little off-question but because uhm, diabetes is intimately connected to thyroid issues. Diabetes commonly, uh, causes low levels of thyroid conversion because high levels of insulin can disrupt thyroid conversion. That’s why blood sugar is so important in keeping inflammation down. But uh, I’d be careful, anytime juice, I get concerned with, excess sugar and insulin resistance being a problem. Uh, that being said, there’s a high amount of… potassium in potatoes, so could just be some of these extra minerals that are there. But I would say, uhm, probably stay away from the excess sugar if there’s high levels of insulin in your type 3 diabetic.

Evan Brand: Uh, there’s other question here, “Are you saying candida overgrowth in the gut can be linked to kale intolerance?”. Uhm, maybe and around about way, yes, but no, not directly. What I was saying is that, when we see on the organic acids test that we have an elevation in oxalates, generally speaking, candida is a contributing factor to why oxalates are driven up. I had high oxalates one time on my organic acid test, I did not eat hardly any leafy green vegetables for significant period of time when my gut was a mess, and I still had high oxalates, I didn’t have many other foods with oxalates in ’em, so, I saw when I fixed the yeast in my gut, and then eventually found out I had candida in my home, and had to fix the candida in my home because especially if you have dogs, dogs have candida on ’em and then they jump in your bed and they spread the candida to your bed, and then you breathe it in, and it recolonizes your gut. So, if you’re working with a practitioner, and you keep beating yourself up because you feel good and then you feel bad, you feel good, you feel bad, you could have candida, driving that oxalate problem. And if that gets to extreme levels, you can end up with kidney stones and all sorts of problem. So, you know, fix your gut, but fix your home too, that’s gonna be like my new motto.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I mean, the more people, let’s just say have inflammation, dysregulations in guts- and gut issues, that can create more oxalate sensitivity. Uhm, again, things like potassium and magnesium are really important for oxalate cleaner. It’s now- kale is actually kind of a lower oxalate food. It’s the spinach. Spinach is the big higher ones, so you gotta be careful with spinach. But again, you know, having enough good quality magnesium and potassium in your diet or supplementally can also help clear oxalates. [Crosstalk]. Oxalates high in organic acid test, that’s more of indirect candida marker. So you’d wanna look at like D-Arabinitol, or ___[48:31] if using the GPL test. Uhm, and, you know, uh, tartaric acid, other things like that.

Evan Brand: Yup. Well, that’s all the questions, I think we killed it in, we donated an extra 10 minutes of time here, so why don’t we wrap this thing up, I’ll tell people again about your summit website.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent.

Evan Brand: It’s thyroidresetsummit.com, it works. Expecting probably 50, 60, maybe 70, 80, who knows? Thousand registrants. So, if you’re not coming to the party, then you’re missing out. So, this is gonna be probably one of the biggest events of the year honestly because thyroid problems are epidemic in the U.S. I’m sure I can pull up some random statistic for you from the CDC if you wanted to, but I’ll just tell you what, Justin and I see which is that, there are countless men and women out there with hashimoto’s, and they don’t even know it, it’s undiagnosed, autoimmune thyroid conditions around the world, these men and women are having anywhere from one to a million symptoms, it could be heart palpitations and anxiety-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: -one day, and they’re energetic, and then the next day they’re exhausted and they don’t know why. And then the next morning, they wake up in the middle of the night and they have heart racing in the middle of the night, they don’t know why. When that thyroid gets attacked by the immune system, it can squirt out little pieces of thyroid hormone and cause you to feel crazy. So, please make sure that you get your antibodies tested. Your TPO, your TG, maybe your TSI if you think you need to, because something you educated me on is that you can have hashimoto’s, and you can have graves at the same time, which sounds insane.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup, you can and, 1 out of 5 women have, uh, a- autoimmune issue, and, one of the most common thyroid issues, over 30 million people have it and don’t even know is, hashimoto’s. And the big issue with that is, it’s gonna create inflammation, it’s eventually gonna destroy your thyroid tissue, low thyroid hormones and it create all kinds of symptoms, and women tend to be more predisposed. I mean, on the guy, I’ve hashimoto’s too, so this isn’t you know, just me only reaching the females out there, men have it too, so you gotta look at it. Women are a little more predisposed, ’cause estrogen can- can affect the CD4 to CD8, uhm immune cell ratio and can make you more predisposed to autoimmune issues, but heck, we know guys are getting exposed to lots of estrogens too via the food, and the plastics and the pesticides. So, that’s another predisposing factor that can even make guys more susceptible even like myself, so, make sure you register. Thanks, so much Evan for the great podcast today, make sure you sign up and get that free 88-page eBook, my real book, the thyroid reset is coming out in the coming months is head. So, stay tuned, thanks so much, and have a phenomenal day. Take care.

Evan Brand: Take care. Bye-bye.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Bye.


References:

https://www.evanbrand.com/

https://justinhealth.com/

https://www.thyroidresetsummit.com/

Thyroid and Nutrient Deficiencies Q & A – Podcast #125

Dr. Justin Marchegiani and Evan Brand dive into an exciting discussion all about thyroid. Listen carefully as they engage in a dynamic conversation with the listeners and share some valuable information regarding their functional medicine approach on issues relating to thyroid; its connection to adrenal health, gut health, nutrition, and infections.

Learn about the hyper- and hypo- symptoms related to thyroid issues. Find out how other conditions like leaky gut and other infections are linked to thyroid health. Gain valuable information on different tests used to assess thyroid health and rule out other conditions contributing to thyroid issues. Increase your awareness about the different sources, like foods, supplements, and metals which all impacts thyroid function.

In this episode, we cover:

04:19   Thyroid and its connection to adrenals and leaky gut

12:50   Testing for Autoimmunity

16:42   Infections and Thyroid Health Connection

21:35   Cortisol Lab Test for Adrenal Issue

28:36   Thyroid Symptoms and Assessment

32:23   Iron

37:20   Gluten and its connection to leaky gut

54:23   Mercury

58:25   Iodine

itune

 

 

youtuve

 

 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: YouTube as well. Any questions, feel free to type them in. Today’s podcast will be on thyroid. Evan, can you hear me okay?

Evan Brand: I sure can. You sound good.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Awesome, man. We are live. What’s going on, man?

Evan Brand: Oh, not too much. Like I told you, somebody in France has had a fun weekend with my business credit card. So uh – besides that, everything is good.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool, man. Yeah. Well, at least you got a capital one card, so you’re pretty well protected, right?

Evan Brand: Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s awesome. So we’re live on Facebook and YouTube. Again, better to be on YouTube, my opinion coz you get to see Evan and myself. If you’re watching me on Facebook right now, we’re a little compromised. We only got my feedback. You’re not gonna hear Evan’s side of it. So feel free and check out YouTube.com/justinhealth to be able to see Evan’s pretty face and be able to get some questions there. But we will answer questions on Facebook Live, too.

Evan Brand: Cool. So today we wanted to talk about thyroid. There is many lab test out there that you can get. Still, conventional doctors are not running the lab tests that are important, though, some of these antibody markers, some of the reverse T3 markers. Maybe you should briefly chat about that just since people maybe on Facebook. Talk people through why is this happening? Why are these conventional doctors not running these other important thyroid markers? Why is it just TSH and some of the other boring stuff?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Great question. And again, today we’re talking about thyroid and we talked about this topic a lot, done a lot of videos on it. I have a book coming out on this very shortly as well. So I’m just kinda do a brief overview. Feel free and check out Evan’s page not just Paleo.com and his podcast from more info as well as mine. We’ll give you more info here today. Hopefully we’ll be able to have a live interaction. But Evan’s question is for the Facebook live listeners. “Can we get podcast live on YouTube, too?” is the question about conventional thyroid issues versus functional thyroid issues. And this is a big difference, and most people they go and get help from their conventional physicians on matters of thyroid issues. They think that their conventional doctor is ruling them out for thyroid issues and they may, if it’s an extreme thyroid issue. You know, very, very high TSH, extreme thyroid swelling, uhm – maybe while hyper-symptoms if their grades are on the hyper side, or if they have a lot of thyroid destruction, or goiter things. They may get picked up by conventional testing, but many patients they aren’t getting picked up on conventional testing because they’re kinda in no man’s land. Conventional medicine looks at things like an on and off switch. You’re either healthy, right? The light’s on. Or you’re unhealthy, the light’s off. And we know in functional medicine world, that light switch is more of the dimmer switch, right? The light may be on halfway, right? You’re halfway healthy; or another way to look at it, you’re halfway to not being healthy. But it may not be all the way off. Maybe just flickering a little bit. And unless you’re all the way off, what’s gonna happen is they’re not gonna see anything wrong with your health issues regarding your thyroid. And they’re not gonna make any recommendations for interventions. And that’s the biggest problem. With thyroid issues, looking from the conventional to the functional medicine realm. And also, you have to look at the tools that they have right there. One tool – most part two, you’re gonna have some kinda surgical intervention or you gonna have some kind of uhm – pharmaceutical intervention. None of which typically fixes the root cause of what’s going on. Especially when we understand that thyroid issues are 90% autoimmune in nature. I’d say at least 50-90%. So we know if it’s autoimmune, and we don’t fix the underlying cause of why the autoimmunity is there, right? Then the underlying mechanism of the antibody is in the immune system attacking the thyroid tissue is still happening in the background.

Evan Brand: That’s terrible. I mean we’ve got thousands of people at this point who we work with, where they’re on thyroid drugs, and they still feel terrible. And I’ll go back and say, “Hey Doc, look, give up my Synthroid or other pharmaceutical, I still feel terrible.” And they’re just gonna up the drug more and more and more. So it’s like you’re jamming this gas pedal down, but you are not figuring out what’s the issue in the first place. And so for us, we’ll always gonna be looking at the gut; looking for infection; seeing what could be going on; why is there some type of attack going on. And then also looking at adrenals, too. And figure out what’s the adrenal thyroid connection. Maybe you could brief people on that a little bit? How someone with adrenal issues could have thyroid issues and vice versa.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. So Evan, your question was looking at adrenals thyroid issues, we also have a listener question as well, talking about thyroid and gluten sensitivity. I’ll try to intertwine with the two answers. But again, adrenals are really important because you have cortisol production coming from the adrenals, which is important for managing stress and inflammation. Also, generally energy via blood sugar. Also, cortisol – is they differ healthy thyroid conversion. So if we have two high cortisol, or if your stress response is too high, we’re kinda in a Stage I adrenal issue that can block thyroid conversion. So we have this T4 thyroid hormone that gets converted down to the T3. And T4 is relatively inactive compared to T3.  So we have to make this conversion. There’s a lot of things that are needed for that, whether it’s selenium, or zinc, or vitamin A, or other nutrients to help make that conversion. But cortisol, from a hormonal perspective, is also needed. So if we’re too low on our response, right? We have this HPA axis, this regulation, the brain, the agent P, the hypothalamus and pituitary are hypo functioning. They’re dysregulated like a broken thermostat in your house – doesn’t turn on the heat, or turn on the air conditioning. That same thing is needed to help make that conversion from T4 to T3. So we have depleted adrenals that can strongly, strongly be an inhibiting factor of thyroid conversion. And also, if we have too much stress, one of the mechanisms the body does to regulate the stress response, is to make more reverse T3, which is essentially like taking uhm – the clip by the – your gun and putting blanks in there. So they kinda – they fit into the – into the magazine. They fit into the cartridge, right? But they fire, but that then you don’t get the same metabolic effect. You don’t get the increase in energy; don’t get all of the hormonal benefits; you don’t have the warmness and the increased blood circulation; and you don’t have the degradation of cholesterol and other hormonal byproducts. So you can see that the adrenals are intimately connected. Now answering the person’s question here on gluten. Gluten is really important because that’s a big strong – That’s a big stimulator of leaky gut. So gluten exposure can drive leaky gut. What it does is it increases zonulin, which unzips the tight junctions in a lot of patients, even people that are necessarily having a response to gluten. It shows that there is still uh – intestinal permeability that’s happening. And the more food particles that get into the bloodstream, the more LPS is in the gut, the more that can unzip the gut, the more – allow more food particles in there, and create more immune stimulation. And it’s also inflammatory in the gut, too. And also can create this concept known as molecular mimicry, where the immune system sees the surface proteins, and it can mistakenly identified it is the thyroid, and it starts attacking the thyroid tissue, creating more inflammation. And that can cause these thyroid follicles. So still, that hormone is creating unbalanced levels.

Evan Brand: And this could all come from gluten exposure, you’re saying?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It can all come from gluten exposure. Gluten is one strongest stimulators of leaky gut, along with distress, along with LPS, which is a compound produced from bacterial overgrowth, right? So the worse stomach acid, the more stress we have, the more essentially we’re not breaking down our food, the more we’re gonna have bad bacterial overgrowth that’s gonna increase LPS, that’s gonna unzip those tight junctions even faster, which is gonna create more immune issues, more food allergy issues. Because think about it, right? The immune system shouldn’t be getting revved up to deal with food; shouldn’t be getting revved up to deal with the digestion. So the more that’s happening- well what that means is that your immune system is going in overdrive. One of the major reason why people are when they’re sick – think about it. Because their immune system sucks up so much energy. So the more you’re revving up your immune system by just consuming food, you’re gonna be constantly tired. And that’s just gonna drain your adrenals, and drain your thyroid, and increase that thyroid autoimmune attack.

Evan Brand: Yup. Well said. So I mean, we got the zonulin. What’s the link there between the zonulin and LPS? So are these connected at all? Or are these going up and down in relationship to each other?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yes. So the more zonulin you have, typically the more leaky gut you’re gonna have, right? So vitamin D is actually a zonulin inhibitor. So the more zonulin you have, the more leaky gut. So LPS will increase zonulin. Infections will increase zonulin. Gluten will increase zonulin. And that basically, if this is like Parker jacket, you’re wearing that’s kinda like unzipping those tight junctions and then basically food particles can get in there.LPS particles can get in there. When LPS flows to the brain and makes it way up to the brain, leaky gut, leaky brain that LPS can create inflammation in the brain which feels like brain fog, which feels like mood issues, which feels like depression, which feels like anxiety. And this is really hard for a lot of people. Getting back to Evan’s question on gluten and the brain, is people may have a gluten issue. Think that well gluten has to cause digestive problems diarrhea, bloating, gas, reflux constipation, diarrhea. But it may not – It may be causing depression, anxiety brain fog, poor memory, poor uh – just word recall. And you may have a gluten issue, but it may not be even because by – you know, you may not see it because it’s not those conventional symptoms. And again, that same thing is gonna create thyroid issues, too. Coz that same mechanism that opens up the lining of the blood-brain barrier and the brain, also affect the gut, which then creates that more autoimmune thyroid attack.

Evan Brand: Well said. And there’s a lot of people that justify eating gluten to us. Whether it’s like organic wheat, or they’re doing some type of like sprouted wheat, or something like that. But gluten is gluten, and even if you’re not celiac – now there is research that shows that celiacs are gonna have30 times higher zonulin levels than a non-celiac. So massive, massive leaky gut in the celiac person in comparison.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Evan Brand: But still, we could even talk about the study. It’s Scandinavian Journal of Gastroenterology. It showed that gliadin, which is a gluten protein can affect zonulin even in people without the gene for celiac.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Evan Brand: And so basically they said, “All gliadin, regardless of what – whether you are celiac or not, it’s still going to activate zonulin, therefore leaky gut, therefore this LPS, these endotoxins are gonna get in there.”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.

Evan Brand: Which is crazy. And – and I love that. I love that the science because then you and I aren’t the bad guys when we’re telling people to get rid of gluten. It’s like, “Look, here is the research.” Yeah, maybe you don’t get a – acne from gluten, but you still causing leaky gut, regardless. I love that we can actually prove that and it’s not just up for – it’s not just our opinion coz we’re the nutrition guys.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s the key thing that you mention there, Evan. The zonulin and the gluten can trigger the leaky gut and you may not necessarily have an autoimmunity, and the question is the more stressed you become, the more compromised you become, the more your toxic burden, your stress burden, the more  your – the physical, chemical, emotional stress buckets get full. That’s where your body’s ability to adapt to stress really becomes inhibited. And again, the biggest mechanism really is, leaky gut. Even if you’re not necessarily gluten sensitive, you may be getting a leaky gut, which is adding stress to that stress bucket, right? It’s decreasing stomach acid; it’s decreasing enzymes; it’s increasing the ability to have food allergens; it’s increasing transfer infections and SIBO.Because the more your immune system is weakening the gut, the more that force field, that IgA gets lower, and the more critters can come in. So, yeah, 100%. And again a lot of people – I’m not a big fan of gluten because its, one: it’s hard to break down, it’s heavily pesticide, it’s low in nutrient density. A lot of the anthropological data shows that it’s been consumed only about 10,000 years ago, and the people that are consuming it typically have lower bodies – body stature, smaller in uhm – skeletal structure and increased risk for osteoporosis. Again, hunter gatherers tend to be more forgers uhm – starchy tubers, berries. Those kind of things, and obviously, meat and bone marrow. You study how the brain evolved. Really, it was the hand axe that allowed us to carve into bones and access bone marrow, and then creates spears to kill animals, and access that nutrients to grow our brains massively. Omega-3 is fat from the fish. So all of those things were huge in evolving our brain. Now, getting back to thyroid-We got a couple questions over here from the listener’s here on YouTube. So I’m gonna list a couple of. Couple is “how do you test autoimmunity?”Number one: kinda tying it back thyroid. We would look at TPO, or Thyroid Peroxidase antibodies or anti thyroid globulin antibodies; we’ll look for immune attack on the thyroid tissue. Also, we can look at TSI, immunoglubin, which is a marker for Graves’ disease, which is also a thyroid condition; or TSH receptor antibodies for the hyper- TSH receptor antibodies for the hyper; TSI for the hyper; and then TPO and thyroglobulin antibodies for the hypo. Now again, you can have the hypo antibodies, though, and have hyper symptoms initially. So you can kinda be on both stages at one point. So just kinda keep that in mind.

Evan Brand: And then more time, just so people are clear to that. Seems a bit confusing.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: A lot of people that start out with hyperthyroid – or sorry – hypothyroid antibodies, low thyroid function antibodies, the TPO and thyroglobulin bodies, even though those are markers for a hypo-, Hashimoto’s, they can progress into hyper- symptoms initially because your thyroid follicle have about four months of thyroid hormone stored in it. So what that means is, you can spill out that thyroid hormone many, many months before, even up to a year or so, before you actually get depleted and go low. And that’s where the TSH gets really high. TSH will go high as the thyroid gets depleted, but in the initial attacks, in the first year or so, you may feel more hyper- symptoms even though it is a hypo– Hashimoto thyroid mechanism that’s happening.

Evan Brand: Uh, got it.  Well said. Okay. So, people may self-diagnose themselves with hyperthyroidism, your saying that it could actually be a hypo-caused by Hashimoto situation that’s going on. They just don’t feel the full effects yet coz it’s a new – it’s a new attack. Is that correct?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. So the symptoms they may have is irritability, anxiety, mood issues, difficulty sleeping, heart palpitations, uhm – they may have like tired but wired kinda feeling. Those are the big things that they’re gonna have. I would say, yeah, the anxiety is gonna be a big one. Difficulty sleeping is gonna be a big one. Where the hypo- symptoms star to come in, again you may still have anxiety; you may still depression. The big differences is you’re gonna start to see the hair thinning because thyroid hormones are needed for hair follicle growth. So the outer thirds of the eyebrows go; the hair starts to thin on top; cold hands and cold feet it starts to happen. You may start to see constipation issue, too. You may start to see your triglycerides and your cholesterol go up. Again, infections can cause constipation, too. Uh – increase insulin can also cause increase cholesterol and triglyceride, too. So there’s other things. But that’s a general indication, is the cold hands, cold feet, the fatigue, the hair loss, the constipation and the increase in lipids you’re gonna see. That’s why you wanna test full thyroid panel, which is gonna consist of TSH, brain hormone, T4,inactive thyroid hormone (free and total), T3, which is converted peripherally 20%, and 80% throughout the body (free and total) and obviously you T3 uptake. You can look at thyroid binding globulin, which can go up or down if you have PCOS or on birth control. And then also reverse T3 and all the antibodies I mentioned.

Evan Brand: Yes. So I’ve also16:19read about another one that I’ve not seen used very much called TRAB, thyroid stimulating hormone receptor antibody, but it says that the antibodies are only ordered when someone is hyper- . And a positive result for that usually means great. So I’m not seeing that one that often, though.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s just a different name for I think the TSH receptor antibodies. Like TPO also has a like a name called,microsomal antibodies. So again, typically it’s the same names. So TSH receptor antibodies that’s probably another name for that, just like the microsomal is the same name for TPO.

Evan Brand: Uhh. Okay, got it. Now should we talk about – Is this is the time we should talk about the link between infections and thyroid health? Because people that were looking at, we’re not just gonna look at thyroid, we’re gonna look at the gut, too. And the average between us is about 1 in 3 of having infections. You know, every third person is gonna show up with infection. Sometimes even – you know those weak. Sometimes it’s 9 out of every 10 people has a parasite or other infection.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. So we have a few questions coming on the uhm – YouTube Live board here that we’ll kinda tie in. But yes, so the big infections that can affect thyroid and can increase that thyroid autoimmunity: H. Pylori, okay, Yersinia, Enterocolitica, blasto, E. histo. Those are gonna be the big ones that are really gonna affect the thyroid. Even Lyme has a specific amino acid pattern that can create autoimmunity to the thyroid. So for sure, those are the big ones. You know, there’s been study showing that when you eradicate H. Pylori – It’s Italian study out there, that thyroid antibodies significantly drop. I have a video on blasto, right? Blasto infections are resolved, antibodies drop. Same with Yersinia, infections drop. As you attack Lyme, antibodies drop. So that can be a big stimulator and drive more leaky gut, more zonulin, more immune stress, which then creates more stomach acid and enzyme environments, which creates more adrenal stress, more thyroid stressed, and more nutrient deficiencies which perpetuate everything. So you can see, if don’t get to the root cause in this, that’s fine. You can go see your conventional medical doctor to make sure your TSH isn’t elevated, right? But in the end, you’re still gonna be suffering. And that’s why I have so many patients then I know you do as well that have all these symptoms. And I’ve seen a doctor for over a decade and are just tired of it. Alright, you know, this can’t just be my thyroid and all that we done is on 50 mics or 100 mics of Synthroid and that’s it. We can’t do anything else. They know there’s something more and that’s why they are reaching for people like you and myself, Evan.

Evan Brand: Yeah. Well in toolbox, it’s just not there, right. I mean, it’s not their fault. They’re just doing all that they’ve got. That’s the only tool in the – in the shed. The surgery or wait till you have some type of disease, or some big nodule, or a goiter or something crazy. And now, okay, now we have to do surgery.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And a lot of people are talking about, “Well, what if you don’t have antibodies coming back on your thyroid?” My personal take on that is, above 40% comeback false negative. So it’s negative, but it could be positive. So what does that mean? Well, typically I’ll run the antibodies on someone at least three or four times before I say that they probably don’t have – they probably don’t have an autoimmune issue – at least 3 or 4 times. Now, the gold standard is a biopsy. Still going with a needle aspiration, and they poke it into the thyroid, they’ll if the tissues have any lymphocyte infiltration. So there’s an immune response going into the thyroid. So you can also have – you know your conventional physician palpate it. They’ll typically reach around your neck. So here’s my Adam’s apple, so it’s down just maybe a centimeter, and then out 1 or 2 cm. So it’s right here. And then you can typically run your finger right across it, then you can touch and push from one side to the other, and just feel the surface. See if it’s smooth, and then you can swallow, and feel that structure. And you can feel like a little nodule or a little bump and that’s possible. A nodule can typically mean autoimmunity or can mean an iodine deficiency. You can go to your conventional physician for that. I talked about the needle aspir –aspiration, but I don’t recommend unless you have – must you really want to know a hundred percent. The next more conservative approach would be a thyroid ultrasound to see if there is any swelling at all. Yeah. And that will be – those will be – My first line of defense would be, “Alright, let’s do your antibodies.” Second line would be ultrasound. I typically wouldn’t recommend the needle biopsy unless you are more worried about the cancer side of it, right? If I’m more worried about cancer then we may do that, or we may do a thyroid scan. But again, those are more invasive. I really only want to see those if we’re trying to rule out cancer. Coz typically the ultrasound and the antibodies will be the best. And we know, uncontrolled Hashimoto’s can lead to cancer, right? It increases your risk of cancer. So everything we’re doing is actually decreasing someone’s thyroid from progressing to a mandibular, papillary, follicular cancer. That’s – that’s the goal. So regarding that piece, everything we’re doing is gonna work either way because we’re mitigating the gluten in the food; or reducing the infection load; or upping the nutrients to help lower antibodies and help the thyroid convert; or making all diet and lifestyle changes and getting rid of the infection, which are gonna help improve the thyroid conversion, activation, and  the upstream signaling downstream.

Evan Brand: Early on in the chat, someone asked, “How should one read the cortisol lab test for adrenal fatigue?” “What numbers indicate the issue?” That’s gonna depend on the lab. Justin and I really like Biohealth, especially because they’ve got a brand-new test that were using now, which is six-point cortisol test. So any practitioners that are using a four-point cortisol test on you-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm. Yup.

Evan Brand: They’re outdated. They need to get with the –the times. With the 2017, six point is the new one. And how can you read the numbers? Well, typically there’s gonna be like a high patient line, a low patient line and then you would wannabe right in between those sandwich. And it’s gonna depend. So other labs are gonna have different – you know, different markers, different reference ranges. So for us to read a reference ranges to you, will be really boring. Uh – but basically long story short, you wanna be perfectly sandwiched in between those two lines. And it’s very rare that we see somebody in that. Most of the time we’re gonna see a low cortisol picture. And this is a low-free cortisol.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Exactly.

Evan Brand: They’re gonna be low pretty much all day. And this is for most people. And so, then we have to keep digging deeper.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Evan Brand: We don’t just throw them a bunch of adrenal support and say, “goodluck” We gotta figure out what – why is this happening?  Is there a lot of emotional stresses, or chemical stresses, or thyroid issues, or parasites? And these are the other pieces of the puzzle.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. So you made some really good points there. So with the adrenal, the car test, the adrenal, the uhm – the cortisol-adrenal response, especially in the morning. Cortisol starts off low in that first initial bit of waking up, and really pops up in the first half-hour to one hour after waking. So Evan and I are looking more at those types of test to see how that cortisol awakening response is happening in the morning. Coz cortisol is so important for thyroid activation to prevent T3 pooling, which is T3 not getting into the cells, as well as to prevent reverse T3 up-regulation, right? Reverse T3 is the uh – the blanks. The blank bullets that fit into the magazine that prevent the real bullets from getting fired. The real thyroid hormone being the real bullets, upregulating your metabolism. So those are the things that we’re looking at. And I agree, cortisol, and low cortisol, and low thyroid can intimately feel the same, right? We have patients sometimes that will feel like, “hmm, do they have a thyroid issue or adrenal issue?” We’ll run both test and we’ll see their TSH is, let’s say: 1, 1.5; T3 is at 3, 3.2; and their conversion is okay. But we’ll see, “Oh, yeah” their cortisol awakening response is terrible. Their cortisol is low; their DHEA is depleted. If they’re female patient, their hormones are off, right? So we’ll see. We’ll be able to  differentiate the two. And if you’re just going based of a symptoms, and trying to self-treat yourself, it’s gonna be really hard. You start going in one direction over the other. You may not get better. And a lot of patients, they instantaneously wanna go get their thyroid supported and treated first. The problem with that is, you increase thyroid hormone levels, and you already have lower cortisol. You can actually lower your cortisol even more, right? Just go google uhm – Addison’s disease, which is cortisol failure, right? – Addison’s disease, contraindications – And one of the contraindications you’ll see on their thyroid hormone because thyroid hormone can actually lower cortisol more. Coz think about it, right? Thyroid increases metabolism. The more your metabolism is increased, the more you metabolize through your hormones as well. So if we lower our hormones, and you are already at super low cortisol to begin with, you can actually feel worse as well. A lot of people feel worse when they just go after their thyroid and it can really create more problems.

Evan Brand: Wow. Now that you say that, I’m picturing a woman last week who, she was on Levothyroxine for a very long time. Her cortisol levels were like the lowest I’ve ever seen. So I wonder if it’s that drug that’s contributed to her cortisol being even lower than it would have been without the drug. What do you think?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. You can see patients that they go on their thyroid support, and they start feeling worse. And it’s just – it’s really difficult because if they’re seeing a functional medicine practitioner, they may lose faith in that person, right? And – and just say, “Hey, I’m just gonna keep on doing what I’m doing. I’m just gonna go back on the Synthroid.” So you have that aspect there, right? And then uhm – also have the fact that you know, what’s primary? A lot of people have in – the adrenal issue is the more primary issue. And if we start treating that first, then we may get the patient feeling better, which then creates more compliance. The more compliance, the more – the more the patient’s gonna follow through on diet, on lifestyle, on addressing infections. And that gives us a better chance to leverage the patients to do the right thing to heal.

Evan Brand: Well said. And plus, if the adrenals get back online, then we know that that conversion from T4 to T3 active is gonna be better. So they may not even need to go to the “thyroid support” if all these other root causes were the biggest thing. I mean it’s a parasite and an adrenal problem. If you fix those two things, is it possible you can get away with never going into, “Hey this is your thyroid program now. We just have to fix the other pieces.”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Absolutely. So uhm – looking at that piece, you’re hundred percent right. I see so many patients, we’ll measure their thyroid temperature like their basal temperature. And again, for basal temps: 97.8 to 98.2 °F is gonna be where you wanna be for your armpit axillary temperature; and then98.2 to 98.6 °F is oral temperature. And typically do that in the morning before you get out of bed. And also do it sometime in the afternoon before you have lunch, and kinda do a general average. And again, a lot of people will be relatively low, and they’ll start to see their temperatures start going up uhm – as we treat the adrenals. One of the big things we see with the adrenals is we see an erratic temperature. The temperature is kinda bouncing around. Anything greater than .3°F can be – can lead to be a sign of a potential adrenal issue via a temp.

Evan Brand: Let me ask this. Let me ask this with you. So you’re saying, .3 difference. So that would mean if you woke up one day and you tested your armpit temperature, let’s say you were 98° flat in your armpit before you got out of bed, then the next day, you’re at 98.3. To you, that’s gonna signify thyroid and adrenal issues. Is that right?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So we went from 98 to 98.3?

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. So it’d be greater than .3 So if you’re 98-98.4 and we’re consistently seeing this back-and-forth oscillation, so we’re seeing 98, 98.4 or 97.9 and it’s constantly bouncing back and forth greater than .3 that could potentially mean an adrenal issue, right? And because it’s erratic, but at a good level of temperature 97.8 or higher. So we typically mean of an adrenal issue. If we see it low and erratic, let’s say, 97, 97.4, 96.9 to 97.5, then that would potentially be an adrenal and a thyroid issue. And again, temperatures aren’t perfect, right? Like when we assess thyroid, there’s three indicators we use. We use subjective, which in my opinion is the most important. How do you feel? Do you have a lot more hyper- or hypo- symptoms, right? Hyper- symptoms being anxiety, palpitations, mood issues, tired but wired.

Evan Brand: What about sweating? Increased sweating?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: – sweating, irritability, difficult sleeping. Where the hypo- symptoms, again, you can still have the mood stuff; you can still have the anxiety and mood stuff; you can still have some tired and wired – some tired and wired

feeling but typically more tired, though. And then the big thing is the cold hands, the cold feet, the thinning hair, the thinning eyebrows, the constipation. Those are gonna be the big differences. And obviously what trumps any of it, is an increase in TSH or thyroid antibodies are gonna be the biggest distinguishing factor, if it’s TPO or TSH receptor antibodies.

Evan Brand: And I just wanna mention one thing, too. In a lot of cases, the people we’re working with are gonna have both hypo- and hyperthyroid symptoms which can be equally confusing.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. Yup. Equally confusing. I mean we look at like the test that we give our patients to assess that uhm – right? The other big one’s losing weight. Losing weight uhm – even though you’re – or unintentionally gaining weight if you’re on the hypo- side or unintentionally losing weight if you’re hyper- side, right? That’s gonna be another, another big one. Elevated cholesterol – another, another big one. So those are a couple of the other ones that I mention there where the anxiety, the excessively sweating, uhm – again, hands shaking, difficulty sleeping, uhm – feeling more warm on the hyper- side. Those are gonna be the other big ones. And obviously having a family history. If your mom, or your aunt, or uncle, or your sibling has a thyroid issue, right? That’s gonna be a big – just, you know, big factor. One of the big questions I do in all my intakes is, are there celiac disease or any autoimmunity that runs in your family? Whether it’s thyroid, or Parkinson’s or MS, or ulcerative colitis, or Chron’s or anything autoimmune related, type I diabetes. And if there is, that really gets me to hone in there. But testing for autoimmunity, conventional medicine typically does it like ANA, or HLA-B27, or an RA Latex like – these are like the conventional, like broad markers for like scleroderma, or like – or celiac, right? Or see, rheumatoid arthritis, or lupus. They’re very non-specific a lot of times. And again uhm – and they typically are late stage markers. It takes a while for them to pop-up.  And again, a lot of people they may be asymptomatic and still have them. So it’s not a real motivating factor for a lot of people. Where some of the things we look at it with the thyroid antibodies, well even just a little bit above like the normal range. So like LabCorp, it’s 33 or 36 for the TPO. Where I think the thyro – the thyroglobulin antibody is anything greater than 1 is positive. So if we’re like at 1.5 or 2, you know – we will look at that and we’re gonna really push for autoimmune changes and autoimmune protocols. We see TPO going above 20, we’ll start to say, “Hey, you know, you wanna be careful with this.” And we’ll keep an eye on that. And then we have the – you know, people are on the thousands on the antibody levels. And we’ve made this change and I’ve seen 70, 80% drops. We take a patient from 2300 down to like 3 to 400, which is a massive drop.

Evan Brand: And so that’s diet, that’s lifestyle, removing infections, supporting adrenals. All those pieces, right?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Absolutely. And I got a question here on FacebookLive. I’ll try to connect it in here. And again, I apologize for Facebook Live listeners here. If you’re watching us there, check out the YouTube so you can actually see Evan. I’m gonna try to reiterate the questions so that you can hear it. Uhm – but that will be the best way to get the full conversation. Regarding uhm – question on Facebook Live, he’s talking about iron. Now, iron is really important coz it’s a really important building block for thyroid hormone. And we also need triiron for thyroid activation from T4 and T3, and we need it for just generally carrying oxygen to ourselves, which is really important for cellular metabolism. So if we have low iron levels that could be an issue. Now I did a full video this for people to get back to the iron video to get like the specifics on that. But again, typically we’ll recommend, like in my line, we use an Iron Supreme. It’s a Ferrous Bisglycinate. And we’ll do about 25 milligrams of iron, anywhere between 2 to 4 times a day to help support that. But also, we’ll figure out the root cause. Coz a lot of females, it’s excessive menstruation or hemorrhage. It could be vegetarian and vegan diets, or it could be the x factor of malabsorption from gut inflammation, to low stomach acid and enzymes and not being able to ionize minerals to an infection that’s stealing your minerals.

Evan Brand: Yeah. I’m so glad you brought that up because here I am thinking about myself, and the whole time, I had two parasite infections.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.

Evan Brand: I guarantee I have low stomach acid. I guarantee I had issues with iron absorption. And people, let’s say, even if you’re eating the best organic grass-fed beef, if you got an infection that is causing stress on the gut, therefore reducing stomach acid; therefore reducing the ability for you to cleave off those amino acids and iron from them – from the meat, you can still have trouble. And what about – what about ferritin, too? Because the iron storage protein, that’s what we’re gonna test. For many times, you’re gonna see, especially women have very, very low ferritin levels where – and you’ve got a woman with ferritin levels you know – in between say 20 and 40. You may be experiencing something like breathlessness, for example. You could definitely have hair loss falling out. Sometimes I’ll hear women say when their ferritin is about 20, let’s say their hair is falling out in clumps. So you wanna get ferritin, which is the iron storage protein. You gotta get that levels tested, too. And we like people to get up, you know, 60, 70, 80 with ferritin just to ensure that – that iron storage protein is actually working. Now – and this is something that I haven’t looked at very often, but I’m curious if you know Justin, if you’ve got low ferritin, are you always going to have low iron as well? Or is it possible that with low ferritin, your iron could still check out okay?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So with lower ferritin, iron serum can pop up, and it can pop up because – imagine like ferritin is like the gasoline that’s in the gas tank, right? And then think of like iron serum is like the iron is actually in the carbonator and then the piston’s ready to be – ready to be combusted, right? So one’s like – iron is like, what’s ready to go that’s in the actual engine and carbonator; and ferritin is like, what’s in the gas tank, right? So obviously the more important one is gonna be what’s in the gas tank coz that gives you the bigger picture, right? You don’t care, you know how much – how much engines – how much fuel’s in the carbonator. It will only take you maybe a couple of hundred meters, maybe a mile. I don’t know, I’m not a big car guy, so – But keep that in the back of your mind. Now the difference is your body has a little bit more of an interplay with other systems. So inflammation can increase iron serum. So that’s why we look at ferritin, but then we’ll also look at it with iron saturation, too. We see iron saturation low, below 25, when we see TIBC or UIBC on the higher side, that means your binding proteins are growing more and more fingers –  to have more iron. And if we see iron serum up, then we’ll be like, “hmm, maybe there’s some inflammation” We may wanna look at C-reactive protein, right? We may want to look at some of those inflammatory markers. Uhm – if we’re running a gut test, you may look at lactoferrin or calprotectin and see it – inflammation is occurring in the gut. So it really depends on what else is happening in the body. Does that make sense?

Evan Brand: Yeah. It does – it does. So, if you had to pick one or the other. Let’s say, somebody only gave you the option to run some of the specific iron markers or ferritin, what would you pick? For me, I think – I feel like I’ pick ferritin, if I could only pick one.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I mean, ferritin for sure. But an iron panel is like 30 bucks. There’s no reason –there’s no reason why anyone should nickel-and-dime on that because you don’t wanna compromise $30 getting a complete picture. So I think we run it. We keep doing it for 30 bucks and that’s everything.

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And that gives you the ferritin, the iron serum, and that gives you the UIBC, the TIBC, the iron stat. So then you have a real complete picture of what’s happening. And then you know, even just looking at someone’s CBC can be helpful coz you can look at red blood cells, hemoglobin, hematocrit and if that’s starting to go low, then we can look at MCH, MCB, MCHC, which is basically markers to see how big your red blood cells are, right? Smaller red blood cells typically mean iron issues; bigger red blood cells typically mean B12, folate and B6 issues.

Evan Brand: Wow. There’s another question. Actually there’s a comment up here by Tonya. She was talking about how she was able to eat gluten and dairy now after she had infections. And I guess she treated those, and now she’s able to eat gluten and dairy. I feel like that depends on the person. Me, personally even if I could get away with it, I still wouldn’t do it because you’re still gonna increase zonulin and leaky gut. Potentially set yourself up for future infections.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah. That’s the problem, right? Disaster doesn’t occur in –a day or a week, right? And we know that leaky gut can still happen even without the symptoms, right? We – there’s just been studies where they’ve given people pieces of gluten and they measured symptoms, they didn’t see necessarily an increase in symptoms or negative side-effects. But they saw this increase in zonulin and leaky gut because of it. Now we know that when that happens, you increase your risk of having other issues. So I know there are people right now, we get the same conversation. We’ll be talking to people that have been able to smoke cigarettes and not get lung cancer. Okay, great. Now, does that mean that you’re gonna go out and recommend smoking cigarettes to anyone? No. It’s still not gonna be beneficial. It’s still gonna be inflammatory. It still increases your risk. You don’t know who the people are that are gonna have the negative effects to begin with, right? It’s all like you have that looking glass that you can see in know. And also uh – you don’t know down the road when stress comes on and other things happen. Coz usually it’s not just one thing. It’s like, “great, now this person who’s talking – their stress bucket, they’re already filling it halfway.” So they’re going into with a half-full of stress bucket thinking that they’re okay, right? Alright. So, I got a half full of stress bucket. So now when other things come into their life, they’re gonna overflow faster.

Evan Brand: Agreed.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And then also – and also other people, that may overfill their stress bucket right away. And so that’s why you have to make sure that you know that some people may be the exception to the rule. They aren’t the rule. And this is where it’s –We have the advantage, Evan, because we see so many thousands of people that we can make correlations and can actually even see causation because we make changes and we see direct changes in the person’s physiology and their symptoms are getting better. So we can’t make – we can’t create all these protocols for the exception to the rule coz there are so many exceptions. There are people that smoke and don’t get cancer, alright? We know that. People that may consume gluten and may be okay, but the majority may have issues. Or they may set themselves up in increased stress bucket, right? Meaning increase their ability to handle less stress, so that when more stress comes on, boom, now they’re laid up.

Evan Brand: Exactly. Yeah. Tonya we had to put you on the chopping block there because for you commenting about saying gluten and dairy and you can get away with it now. You’re speaking for thousands of people that listen and do the same thing. And Justin and I will look at the symptoms of someone, and if there are still health complaints that haven’t been resolved, then let’s say we get the retest on GI-MAP stool test, and we look at antigliadin and antibodies, and I caught the lie detector test. I don’t know if you do, Justin. But it’s uh – when you get the antigliadin antibodies, it’s like, okay, one of three things happen. Either you’ve got gluten, you ate gluten, or you’ve got cross reactivity going on. And so, even if your symptoms are not supposedly there, your body is still fighting internally. There is still this internal battle going on, which is not what we want because then those antibodies can get confused and start attacking other tissues, which we don’t want.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And it’s tough because there are people that we see eat a diet that is you know – highly processed with a lot of carbs. And their blood sugar is relatively okay. And that maybe because they’re naturally more insulin sensitive, or they exercise more. And we see some people that eat the same diet, and they’re diabetic. So what do you do? Like I can’t sit there, and say, “well this person who eats this way isn’t diabetic” that means that diets is fine. No, it’s not. You have to look at the greater picture. You also have to look at what – does that diet now, is it nutrient dense? Is it anti-inflammatory? Is it low in toxins? And no, it’s not. But again, don’t get me wrong. Like dairies are open-ended topic, right? Ghee may be perfectly great. Butter maybe perfectly great.  Raw milk may be perfectly great for some people. But then we go to the pasteurized dairy, we go into more of the yogurts, which could be great, but it may not be. So do – we have to kind of uhm – can have a criteria for all those different compounds, right? Because some dairy may be okay, some may not be okay. And sometimes bread, too. Some people may do okay with bread over in Europe. Or they’ll do fine with sourdough bread coz it’s fermented and has less gluten in it versus, let’s say, wheat bread here that’s conventional. So you got to look at it, too. Some of those things may be okay and may have to be more specifically talked about.

Evan Brand: Yup. She commented back. She says, we’re missing the point. If parasite is the cause, you can go back to the way you were, prior to eating – oh the way you were prior, like eating gluten. We as people, ate gluten for a millennia and now it is the cause of all ills. I’ll comment on it first, and then I’ll let you say something about it. In the modern world, we have a lot more toxins. We have a lot more things that we’re up against, and so gluten, where maybe only would have change someone’s health 2 or 3% 5000 years ago, now,  has the ability to modify someone, tell 50 or 75, or even80% in some cases. We’ll see 80% of symptoms get better without it. So for me, comparing millennia to the modern world, we’ve never had a world like today. So it’s just not really a valid argument.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And the grains aren’t even like– If you look at the biblical grains, they talked about in the diet, and Dr. William Davies totally debunks this. If you look at the grains 2,000 years ago, reference in the bible, these are 12 chromosome uh – grain products versus the ones that they have right now, they’re hybridized and genetically modified, they’re up to 50 chromosomes. The gluten content is much higher and is also the extra stress of potential GMO nutrients, poor soils, as well as pesticide exposure. So it’s not quite the same way. Plus, people have to look at it from this perspective, if you drive around on your car, and you get a flat tire on your car, right? And you change the tire and you put the little – let’s forget that. Let’s just say you’re driving around on that flat tire for like a year, okay? So the flat tire is the cause of what’s happening here. But you drive around the flat tire for a year. That’s like ignoring the stressors of your health. It could be gluten. It could be parasite. But the longer you drive around on the flat tire, the more you front angles out of alignment; the more your suspension goes out of whack; the more your whole shock system in the car becomes stressed. And even if you decide, let’s say a year later, I’m gonna change that tire and put on a nice, fresh tire, which is like cutting out the gluten, managing stress, managing sleep, your car has been compromised where just changing the tire won’t fix it. You’re gonna have to go in for a full frontal alignment. You may have to get your tires rotated; you may need new shocks; your brake pads may have worn unevenly. There’s so many other issues that may happen with the car that where collateral damage from that flat tire being ignored. So just because you, let’s say, it was a parasite issue, and the parasites are now gone; or it’s a gluten issue, and the gluten’s now gone, doesn’t mean you now have nutritional deficiencies; doesn’t mean your enzymes and HCL are now effective; doesn’t mean your thyroid and your adrenals hormone system are now stressed; doesn’t mean your detoxification systems are now stressed, right? So this is what is happening. And other analogy is you’re in debt for 5 years. Great. You stop – you curtail your spending habits but you don’t get out of the hut – but you don’t get 100 grand out of debt by just changing your spending habits today. You need a bailout, or you need a lot more time just to start saving and get that money back up. Does that make sense, Evan?

Evan Brand: Yeah. Or the analogy of the spider web.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Evan Brand: Where there’s other pit of the web that’s affected, too. So for example, we can use me as an example. You look at me when uh – first time I came to your house. You’re like, “Evan, man, you look like you get a parasite.” You just- you just saw it. And I was like, “okay” It’s been a year plus since I’ve eradicated those infections, but I still am using enzymes and HCL because I was in such hypochloridic state that I still need to use supplemental HCL and supplemental enzymes. And I don’t really have an end date in mind where I’m not going to use enzymes because if I’m busy, or If I feel like I’m just not chewing my food as much as I should, to me, I like that nutritional insurance policy in place.

Uhm – there’s another question too that Chris asked earlier. He said, “not to be the dead horse, but isn’t there another marker to show autoimmunity of failsafe?” I guess since he’s asking because a lot of times –

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I already answered that one with the ANA and the conventional ones.

Evan Brand: Oh, okay.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And then the TPO. And also the gliadin antibodies be the stool testing we do. And then there’s uh – a test by Cyrex Lab that looks at leaky gut, which could give you a predisposing marker, where it looks at zonulin and occludin toxins which can open up the tight junctions. So that one will be another one when I look at.

Evan Brand: It’s pricey. Have you run that one often? The Cyrex, I mean, it’s like 600 bucks.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I’m not a big fan of that because it doesn’t tell me any of the cause. So if people have infections and their diet is not good, and they have – we’re seeing a low stomach acid and low enzyme environments, it’s not worth it. We just kinda work on treating the cause and then a lot of times, the clinical picture changes. Peoples bloating in gas and all these symptoms improved, which we know that means their digestion is getting better, their absorbing more nutrients. That means there has to be a leaky gut mechanism happening. I’m a bigger fan of looking at causal test versus the effect test. The effect tests are only good if you’re trying to convince someone or that people are skeptical. But once – people that are coming to see us are very intelligent because they’ve already educated themselves. They listen a lot to podcast. They read lots of blogs. They watch a lot of videos. They already get it. They don’t need to be convinced. They just wanna be fixed. So it’s a different mindset with those people.

Evan Brand: Agreed. Well said. And we don’t have people that need to be convinced they have leaky gut. Most of the time, they’ve already self-diagnosed themselves. In many cases, you don’t need to spend – I’d say99.9% of the cases, you don’t need to spend the money on a blood test that’s gonna say you have leaky gut. We could just list off symptoms – boom boom boom. Yeah, you probably got leaky gut. Cyrex, for their food sensitivity test, that is – that is cool one, but even then I feel like it’s a unnecessary in most cases because if you and I are gonna put somebody on like a AIP approach, let’s say thyroid disease did show up, some Hashimoto’s. We’ll have to go AIP and maybe we could try to reintroduce things. But they’re gonna be able to be a better barometer of Austin than the test in most cases. Like, “Oh when I added dark chocolate back in” or “when I added dairy back in” and this is what happen. I feel like that’s more valuable than a blood test.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.

Evan Brand: Totally.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We’ll do a full autoimmune elimination protocols and it’s gonna be very valuable for 90% of people. We’ll go an autoimmune diet, cutting out nuts, seeds, nightshade, eggs, obviously grains, legumes, dairy. And again, for people that are like the gluten fans that are on the message board here, they still aren’t nutrient dense food. If you look at the nutrients, if you look at the other compounds that aren’t gluten-related, right? Let’s look at the fact that some people are intolerant. They just can’t break it down because they’re missing the enzymes to do that. And that any time the food is not broken down, it can create stress in the body just like people that can’t break down lactose. They’re lactose intolerant and then they have diarrhea and bloating. So, some people just may be intolerant to breaking down the protein. Some people may be increasing inflammation because of the lectins and the phytic acid and then the oxalates that are just shutting mineral absorption. Other people may be having the autoimmune issue. So it’s still not a nutrient dense anti-inflammatory low toxin food. It’s not like there’s this missing nutrient that you can get out of gluten or out of these grains that you can’t get in some really awesome nutrient rich vegetables or healthy fruits with –or healthy starchy tubers. Does that make sense?

Evan Brand: Yeah. It does. Now – this is off-topic. But –

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s not a missing link. That’s my thing. If people had to say that – we – could show me a nutrient density chart and say, “But Dr. J, you get these nutrients, or the zinc and this is amazing or this, B vitamins”. I’d say, “Okay, but there’s not that evidence that it’s there.

Evan Brand: Right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Now a great – a great talk on this uhm – what’s his name, out of Harvard there – Matt Lalonde did a great talk at the Ancestral Health Symposium at 2012 on nutrient density. I highly recommend anyone watching that. But when you look at the nutrient density that you’re gonna get in meats, especially organ meats, it’s insane. It just destroys grains. And grains are the lowest out of all those foods.

Evan Brand:  Yeah. Now, we’re – we’re off-topic from the thyroid, but that’s fine because I love that’s it’s a dynamic conversation.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It connects in, right? Because-

Evan Brand: It does.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -nutrients help in thyroid conversion, they help with thyroid activation, they help with the adrenal, which helps the thyroid cells. Even though we’re off-topic, we’re gonna do our best to kind of meander our way back to the thyroid.

Evan Brand: Yeah. Now, what I was gonna say was a bit off- topic, which is – well all you’re saying is totally on topic but what I’m gonna say is it’s funny how even some of these professional healthcare companies are now designing supplements, which I’m not gonna even give them the credit of naming these products. But there are gluten supplements out there, where it’s like, “here, go eat gluten, but then here is this enzyme or here’s this XYZ supplement to where you can still try to eat gluten, but you just take these pills with them instead.” It’s like, that’s ridiculous. That’s like covering up the engine light in your car. The light’s still there, but here’s this magic tape that’s gonna hide it. I just don’t think supplements that enable you to eat gluten is a good idea.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Now, here’s the deal, right? If you have thyroid antibodies, if you know – if you have objective measures of autoimmune issues, or your heightenly celiac sensitive, another word is – almost like – almost like if you have gluten, like you’re laid up, like you’re just – you’re junk for days on it, I don’t ever recommend cheating with gluten. If you can manage, if you’re really healthy, and you don’t have severe thyroid or antibody markers popping up, then you could try going gluten-free you know, right? It maybe rice, or corn may be okay. If you do that, I typically recommend the enzymes, like the DPP-4 enzymes and we’ll take it with charcoal. But it’s a cheat, and we’re just trying to mitigate it. And we wouldn’t wanna ever do that as a staple to allow ourselves to eat gluten. Now, like myself, like maybe once year, like if I’m in Boston and I’m in the north end, I may have like a cannoli, but I found an alternative uh –modern bakery and get some gluten-free ones that are white flour-based. But if I go, I mean I’ll up the DPP-4 enzymes, increase the charcoal, and the vitamin C in the knack. And that will help me deal with it. Uhm – but again, that’s like – if you look at it, the 2000 meals I have a year, you know – maybe one or two have that in there, right? Not a lot. We’re talking .001% But people who are really, really sensitive or having gut over their health issues, initially you really wanna be puritanical. And then – I’ll kinda dovetail this with Johnny’s question here. Some of the testing that I will do to fine tune, if like patients are on the autoimmune, they kinda reintroduce things back in and they’re still having issues, and not quite sure what works, there will be some testing we’ll do like an MRT is a pretty good test. I’m liking the ELISA / ACT test as well coz it’s not just antibodies, it’s looking at various lymphocytes, too. And I do a combination of the ELISA and I’m – I’m kinda testing the MRT as well. And I’ll actually be doing some blind testing and sending some uh – different vials in with different people with actually my blood on with different names. I’m doing some blind testing on that. So hopefully I’ll do a video on that.

Evan Brand: You ought to try the, if you have it already, I believe it’s the Array 2. And there’s a couple of other Arrays form Cyrex, too. I’m a bigger fan of that than the MRT.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well the problem with Cyrex, though, it’s only looking at Ig or IgA – that’s the issue. So with the ELISA, it’s also looking at T-cell lymphocyte response and you’re not gonna get that picked up on Cyrex. That’s the big issue. And if you’re not exposed to gluten, let’s say we’re doing this test, and “yeah, I haven’t eaten gluten in a month or a couple of months” Well, if the immune system isn’t responding to it coz it’s not being exposed to it, it won’t come up in the test.

Evan Brand: Uhhh.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And people will be like, “Oh, look, I’m fine.” But may not be the case. So you have to look at it in a complete spectrum.

Evan Brand: That makes sense. So the ELISA / ACT.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh- hmm.

Evan Brand: And that’s blood.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s blood. Exactly.

Evan Brand: Cool. That sounds great. Well, I feel like we should probably wrap this up. I know this has been a lot of information uhm – if people are interested in your book, then they need to sign up for your email list. I mean – you’re so passionate about thyroid health, it’s definitely infectious. And do we have a date on that? Of this thyroid book? What’s up with that?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s done, man. I’m shooting it up to the editor. So we can buff it out and – and you know, I read all – every thyroid book on the market, I pretty much read. And my biggest issue is, you can summarize every thyroid book in like 5 pages.

Evan Brand: I know.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So I want a book that’s shorter. It’s more condensed. I want every page to be neat. I want every page to be __I want every page to have like action items. People can walk away and really improve their health and then throughout – in a standstill, they can reach out to people like myself and you, to kinda like get to the next level. So that’s where I’m at right now – to fine tune and boil it down. I want to touch just one question. Dale mentioned it earlier, he talked about mercury. And mercury is an important aspect coz mercury can pinch it and affect the thyroid. There’s this study showing that lowering mercury can decrease thyroid antibodies. I have one patient that had thyroglobulin antibodies over 2000 and we saw the antibodies drop below 100. So we saw a 99% drop in antibodies by removing mercury. So we’ll test that. We’ll do challenge test via urine and we’ll use various provocation agents like DMPS, which is 2, 3 dimer propanoic acid, or we’ll do uh – 2, 3 dimer succinic acid, which is DMSA. Or we can even do EDT as well. But I typically do the DMPS challenge and we’ll be able to provoke that and see what’s coming out from the mercury. That can be a big, big uh – kind of underlying revealer of another aspect of what could be driving an autoimmunity, which is the mercury. And again, I know you’ve done the shade testing which looks at urine unprovoked, hair, and blood. Not a big fan of hair and because they don’t tell you an active or chronic uhm – a chronic level. Doesn’t give you a tissue burden. And also, there’s study showing that people that push more mercury out on the hair actually have better detox pathways, and they measure people who push less mercury on the hair, and they actually found that they had more provoked mercury in the urine even though they push less out in the hair, partly because their detox pathway is impaired.

Evan Brand: Wow. I’m gonna try yours coz it sounds like it sounds like I could be getting some numbers that are not what they actually are. I wonder what other heavy metals are impacting this, too? I wonder if cadmium, for example, or aluminum is also gonna impact thyroid. It seems like all heavy metals potentially could. Or do you think it’s specific to mercury. Mercury’s gonna be the biggest?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well mercury is definitely gonna be the biggest coz it’s one of the second or third most toxic compounds in the world. It’s really bad. So that one. Obviously lead is gonna be really bad, too. Because lead and mercury interplay, right? If you look at the lethal dose of one – if you take uhm – the dose, you get hundred rats lined up, and you figure out, you keep on titrating the mercury dose up. So the first rat dies out of a hundred. So you titrate the mercury up, the first rat dies, right? That’s called the – the lethal dose of one, right? The 1, the 1% that kills – the dose of 1% of that kills. And you do that for mercury and lead, so you have the hundred rats, right? One dies of mercury, right? You increase the lead up here or one dies of lead. And you now combine the mercury and lead those together to all 100 rats, they all die. Did you get that?

Evan Brand: Yeah, I sure did.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So what they’re saying is even though it only kills one of here over a hundred and the lead over here kills one out of a hundred, but when you combine it together, and gives it all to 100, all of them die. Meaning that, these metals are synergistically connected and can have exponential effects when added. So if you see mercury and lead together, typically the compounds that we’re using, are gonna be specific to mercury and lead for sure. So you don’t have give a special one for mercury and a special one for lead, right? So you give it and it would globally affect mercury and lead and typically cadmium, as well. And we’d also wanna give extra binders. Crochet talks about this like MC but MCT like modified citrus pectin, MCP actually. Uh – we’d also give maybe charcoal or bentine clays. We’d also use things like chlorella, especially for mercury. And we’d also use things to support detoxification. So in my line, we use heavy metal clear and then we also use DMPS and we use a lot of sulfur amino acid support to run phase 2 detoxification, as well.

Evan Brand: And still eat your broccoli, folks.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, yeah. Your cruciferous are gonna be really important for your DIM and Indole-3-Carbinol which all help run phase 2 detoxification.

Evan Brand: Awesome.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Well, anything else here? Any other questions we wanted to run to? Uh – on the YouTube live here, anything else we can answer?

Evan Brand: I think that was everything.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think we hit it all up pretty well. Oh, I didn’t touch upon this. Let me just hit it real quick. Iodine. Iodine is a really important nutrient for the Iodination process to make thyroid hormone, right? If you look at the T, the T typically stands for- some people say thyroid or tyrosine. And then the 4 number is the Iodine. So you have the Iodination process and then you have the 5 prime, the iodinase that comes in there and it grabs and pulls off an iodine, and activates it and makes it T3. Well, that enzyme that activates thyroid hormone is selenium dependent and comes from the liver. So healthy liver function is really important. But having adequate iron uhm – adequate iron level as well is important, but having adequate iodine is also important. RDA is about 150 to 200 µg a day to at least prevent goiter. Now some people may need more than that. Now you have people like Brown Steen and other doctors that are going super, super high, 2550 mg a day. I’m very, very cautious of doing any high-dose iodine. I have seen too many patients uhm – like literally just lose their hair. Like just like gaps, like handfuls come out and their thyroid has gotten worst. Number one, like if we give iodine and they have autoimmunity, it’s typically months later after we’ve stabilized the gluten, stabilized the adrenals, supporting thyroid, supporting nutrients, supporting the gut, get their diet in shape, get their digestion better and then we’ll start very low and we’ll gradually work them up. But we’ll be checking in, we’ll be monitoring it and we’ll be doing very low doses and then gradually tapering it up or also making sure there’s enough selenium there, enough B vitamins, enough minerals, enough vitamin C. So we’ll make sure there’s a lot of other cofactors coz when you give iodine, it can spit out hydrogen peroxide, which can increase D cell lymphocyte infiltration into the thyroid. So it can exacerbate autoimmunity. So if we do it, we’re doing it responsible. We’re doing a lower RDA doses as a starting point and then gradually working our way up from there.

Evan Brand: So what about working with foods at the same time? So I’ve heard some people, anti-kelp people out there. And I don’t know why there’s some anti-kelp people.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, I think you just gotta be careful with kelp just because just coz where it’s coming from, the whole Fukushima disaster two years back.

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -radiation. So just gotta be careful. There are some really good sources out there. You gotta make sure it’s not coming from one of those places and number two, there’s a whole list of foods that you can give. Typically, like in my multi- there’s gonna be at least the RDA there, which is great.

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Egg yolks are gonna have some iodine as well. Uhm- obviously seaweeds have some good iodine sources. You just have to make sure that it’s not gonna be the Fukushima kind. I’ll get a list right here. I’ll read out a couple of foods that are really high in iodine in just one second.

Evan Brand: I’ve heard strawberries, too, which is interesting. And then I also wonder – it’s hard to get a composition sheet for a Himalayan pink salt. I wonder if you’re gonna get any iodine from pink salt or not?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I mean there’s some maybe some trace amounts there. I know iodized salt; 1 gram will have about 77 µg. There are some research showing that increased iodize salt consumption did increase autoimmunity. And it could just be that these are the general public. They’re just taking it, they already have a poor diet, and they don’t have the selenium, and the B’s, and the minerals, and the vitamin C in the background. And maybe that’s why that happened. So it’s hard to say. So there are studies on that showing there could be an issue. But things like cod, right? Things like shrimp, uh – things like turkey. Even some navy beans, even some tuna, even some eggs are gonna have some good iodine. I mean one egg is gonna have 12 to 15 µg iodine. So if you do 4 eggs a day, that’s about 60. You got a good multi- that will be 150. Uhm – you have some fish, you got some other food, now you’re like at 3, 400µg. Now you may need to go higher, but you had to work with physician or functional medicine practitioner to be monitoring the antibodies and make sure you have all ducks in a row first, before you go there.

Evan Brand: Yeah. I mean there’s people that will just start covering themselves in iodine. And so that could be a bad idea, you’re saying, coz you could actually increase antibodies, right?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally can increase antibodies. Uhm- you gotta be careful with that.

Evan Brand: I’m not – for some reason iodine, one of those things and kind of the eggs will call the natural health community that is – it’s been portrayed as very benign. And I remember even in some of the – the classes I was taking down in Austin, I remember a girl in class, she like paints everyday, she was painting her arm with iodine. And she was like, “it’s the greatest nutrient ever.” I was like, “Oh, my Lord. This is out of control.”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well painting on your skin for the most part, 80% of it evaporates.

Evan Brand: Uh-huh.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: The only time I recommend painting it on your skin is if you have fibrocystic breast disease uh – you have a lot of cyst and painful breast tissue. Painting it on the breast tissue can be great coz you’re driving the iodine right into the localized spot, where there’s the cyst, which could help. But outside of that, I mean, if you have –if you need iodine systemically for your body and for your thyroid function, you wanna take it in – in your body. And typically do a liquid potassium iodide.

Evan Brand: So she wasn’t – She probably wasn’t making herself toxic then. She was just turning herself uh – brown.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. 80% of it – you know, the iodine pass test, like the faster it evaporates, meaning the more your body absorb it; the slower it evaporates the more iodine you have. It’s very crude measurement, right? The better test is gonna be like Hakala or I think doctor stated, there’s an iodine loading test. I think it’s 25 to 50 mg of iodine then you test uhm – your urine and see how much GPL. So the goal is, if you pee 90% or more, it means your iodine levels are saturated; if you pee less than 90%, right? You pee less than 90% that means your body grab more of that iodine. So it’s – you’re essentially low. That’s the theory on that. 90% and more, you’re okay; less than 90, you’re low.

Evan Brand: Uhh. That’s interesting.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: But again, regarding iodine, you gotta do it responsible – responsibly. If you’re – think of iodine gasoline on the fire.

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Gasoline is not bad when you put it in your car. But if your car is on fire, and you start putting gasoline in your car, you can create problems, obviously, right? That’s what’s kinda happening in your thyroid. You wanna look at everything holistically. And you want the body system approach that Evan and I use, the key three, looking at the hormones, ATF( adrenals, thyroid, female hormones); ATM (adrenals, thyroid, male hormones), gut and infections, putting nutrients, digestion, better food, allergies, and then looking at detox and nutrients, as well.

Evan Brand: Yup. Well said. Go to justinhealth.com to schedule consultation with Justin. Check out the thyroid videos series. He’s got hormone videos series, too. You’ve got the supplement line there. And then, you could check out my stuff, too, notjustpaleo.com or you could just google either of us. Justin, or Dr. Dr. Justin Marchegiani. Evan Brand. You’ll find us both. And stay tune because this is really fun. And I don’t know about you, but I’m loving this. I think maybe 3 to 5 times more than just doing an off-air podcast coz people are asking questions. And it’s like shaping and structuring this.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: This little organic podcast ball.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I love it. We love the questions. We like just having this little kinda dialogue back and forth and “ooh, someone responds over here, let’s see what they said” and we kinda see if we can interject it into the conversation. That’s great. Totally m__we’re on the fly.

Evan Brand: Love it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Like impromptu, right? It’s like we’re on the stage, doing a little impromptu podcast.

Evan Brand: There’s no cuts; there’s no edits; there’s no –

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Overall man, this is it.

Evan Brand: This is – this is the real deal. This isn’t – there’s not a makeup person coming in and touching you up here. I mean this is the real deal.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I know. If you guys are liking this, we’re gonna do it a lot more. We just need thumbs up; we need likes; we need shares; show us the love. Go like Evan’s channel. Share the podcast. And then we’re gonna do more of this, and get everyone’s questions answered, and just provide more value. Like how could we provide more value to our listeners and improve your health.

Evan Brand: Yeah. And I think I mentioned it already. But if you wanna schedule a consult with Justin, just go to the website, justinhealth.com you could schedule the consults there.  And same thing for me, notjustpaleo.com and we’ll chat with you all next week. And let’s do something next week, maybe – maybe on like clinical success stories we’re having in the practice.

Evan Brand: Well that means they’re coming in –

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And just like, maybe go over our top 3 stories of the week. Coz we see – you know, so many patients. We can pick out 3 easily.

Evan Brand: Well, yeah. I thought of something, too. Uh- actually, a woman who was struggling with fertility is now pregnant. And I figured, getting her on and talking about her story with parasites and how her fertility was compromised due to the infections. Getting her on the air, maybe asking them– we have to make it fun for them, too. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: For them to take time out of it, get them to share their story and just kinda talk them through what we did. I think that’s- that’s the most remarkable part of all this, is getting to hear the feedback, which a lot of people, they’re not getting to hear the stories. And this is what keeps us motivated and keeps us going.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I love it, Evan. That sounds awesome, man. Well, let’s connect real soon, brother.

Evan Brand: Take care.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You take care. Bye now.

Evan Brand: Bye.


References:

www.notjustpaleo.com

YouTube.com/justinhealth

Dr. Lauren Noel – IV Nutrition, Female Hormones, and Leaky Gut – Podcast #37

IV nutrition is very vital to female hormones and preventing conditions like leaky gut and others. Find out how these additions to your nutrition can help your hormones become more balanced, prevent yourself from having complications and adverse conditions, and help your reproductive health.Dr. Lauren Noel

Intravenous Nutrition (IV) is basically securing that your body is thoroughly nourished. We need food. But not all of us can eat enough food because of certain circumstances like illness, or lack of access. Sometimes, even if you think you have eaten enough, a lot of the nutrients from the food might not be absorbed by your body.

Your digestive system might have some certain problems that make you unable to absorb these vital nutrients that keep your body working to its optimum performance. With IV Nutrition, you make sure that you get all the vitamins and minerals needed and they surely will be received by your body. It’s a lot better than taking oral supplements because, well, sometimes you might have some absorption problems.

In this episode with the brilliant Dr. Lauren Noel, we cover:

4:00   Female Hormones, Libido, Sex Drive, and Fertility

20:00   Leaky Gut

27:18   IV Nutrition

43:04   Iodine

itune

 

 

youtuve

 

 

Podcast: Play in New Window|Download

Dr. Lauren Noel is a Naturopathic doctor who has helped thousands of patients with their digestive disorders, thyroid, and reproductive problems. She also has great knowledge about functional medicine and overall wellness.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey there! This is Dr. Justin Marchegiani and welcome to another awesome episode of Beyond Wellness Radio. Again, we have a great show in store for you. Before, go to BeyondWellnessRadio.com, click on the Newsletter Signup button and you can sign up for our newsletter and get show updates right in your inbox before anyone else. You can also click on the questions button and even speak questions live, and we’ll be able to answer it on the air for you.

You can also click on the Write A Review button. If you really enjoy this show, write us a review. Let us know on itunes. Let the world know. Think of one person that would benefit from listening to this show and share it with them. Sharing is caring.

Also, check out JustInHealth.com, which is my personal site. And I have some complimentary functional medicine consults available. You can also sign up for the Free Thyroid series and Female Hormones Series as well.

You can also go to ReallyHealthyNow.com. That’s Baris Harvey’s website where he has some great articles and blogs and videos for you there as well. And even some consultations.

Again, we have an awesome show in store. Stay tuned.

Hey there it’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani with Beyond Wellness Radio and we got Dr. Lauren Noel here in studio. Well, kind of. At least over Skype. And we’re really excited to have Dr. Lauren here. She actually rescheduled on me twice because she’s so busy but I’m so happy we’re able to get her in. Dr. Lauren, how are you doing today?

Dr. Lauren Noel:  I am lovely. So excited to finally be here. Third is a charm. Thanks for asking.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: No problem. So tell me, what’s going on with your clinic? I know we chatted a little while ago and your clinic’s been off about, I think, a year and a half, and you’re rocking it, helping lots of people. Can you tell me about how the clinic’s doing?

Dr. Lauren Noel: Oh man, it is-. I am beyond amazed at how it’s taken a life of its own. It’s just so amazing. I started the clinic Shine Natural Medicine a year and a half ago and my vision was creating a place that is not only empowering to patients but also to the staff, and a place where we all get to come together to and really just develop ourselves personally, with our health. I wanted it to be a hub of community and it’s completely done that. We have events here at the clinic. We just had our anniversary party a few months ago and it was so much fun. And we had a photobooth. Patients were coming in and taking pictures and we had healthy foods and drinks, and music, and a DJ playing. It’s just become a place of so much fun and health, and it’s exactly what I envisioned and more. So, I’m pretty happy about it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s really good. Awesome. And I see you got a new website up at ShineNatural Medicine.com. Site looks super awesome and I see you got a newsletter on there. So are you starting to send out blogs or videos every week now?

Dr. Lauren Noel: Yep. We are sending out weekly tidbits, recipes, health tips. Just keeping people in the loop of what we’re doing at the clinic. And we send out fun videos – just something to inspire you and give some good little pearls for your health. We like to keep it simple, but also some useful information. So, yeah. It’s a lot of fun.

Female Hormones, Libido, Sex Drive, and Fertility

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s awesome. Really cool. Well, now I have you on here, I’ve really wanted to talk about female hormones and especially the area of libido, sex drive, and fertility. So I’m just going to open it up there. And why don’t we touch we touch upon fertility right now? Just [talk about] some of the things that you know need to be in place with the patients to be really fertile and have the best chance of having a healthy pregnancy.

Dr. Lauren Noel: Yeah. God, don’t you see so much in your practice? There’s so many issues with fertility nowadays. It’s amazing.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: All the time.

Dr. Lauren Noel: All the time. And I think couples are embarrassed sometimes to talk about it because they think that as soon as they start to try to get pregnant, boom. It’s going to happen and they’re going to have this beautiful joyous pregnancy and no stress. And a lot of times it doesn’t necessarily go that way. Infertility is on the rise a lot more than it’s ever been before and I think there’s a lot of things that are involved with this.

But the first thing that I start with patients is a pre-fertility kind of cleanse. So, we’re getting the hormones balanced. We’re getting space created in your life so you actually could have a baby. I just had a patient the other day, about a week ago, came in. She’s very, very busy lawyer and she works like 70 hours a week and she’s like “I want to get pregnant!” and I go “You have no room for a baby right now. You’re not going to get pregnant because you just cannot actually take this on in your life right now.”

And with our follow-ups, she’s been creating more space in her life to do this. She’s getting acupuncture. She’s taking more time to cut back on her hours and meditate, and relax a lot more. And her hormones are starting to get a little more balanced and it’s been just basically cutting back and saying No. And I think that’s one of the biggest takeaways for women, especially, because if you’re stressed, you’re going to have a hard a time getting pregnant. So, we live in a very stressful day and age. So much on our plates now. And, you know, cutting back and really balancing out life is really huge for fertility. I’m sure you see a lot of this too.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Absolutely. And you know we know from like a lifestyle perspective, like the meditation, sleep, blood sugar, like these are kind of foundational. But what are some the things that you’re doing from a functional medicine thing? You mentioned hormones. I know you do a lot of IV nutrition in your office too. What are some of the extra things that you do that you find really help improve a woman’s fertility?

Dr. Lauren Noel: Yeah. So, first thing is getting a baseline to see where we’re at. So, definitely looking at Hormone Testing, doing a good Day 21, seeing where your progesterone is looking at, your estrogen, adrenal panels, to doing a salivary adrenal test. And if you have healthy adrenals, you’re much more likely to get pregnant. If you have that flat line adrenal, your body is just trying to keep up with life right now. You’re just not going be able to sustain a pregnancy as easily. So, doing the salivary cortisol test is really important. I use bio health. I think that’s probably what you use as well.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, exactly.

Dr. Lauren Noel: Just really good hormone testing and then also looking and seeing if you have any nutrient deficiencies. So specific ones. Magnesium is huge for fertility. B vitamins, you know, the Methyl H. And you probably touch on something higher. Your foliate levels, your B12. B6 is especially important for hormones for women. And so, getting your nutrient levels on track before you get pregnant. Because once you get pregnant, that baby’s going to be sucking up those nutrients for you. So, you’re going to get just the leftovers. So getting to a point where you’re just optimally well, you can get pregnant and stay healthy during pregnancy. You’re not going to have the post-partum and just feel so depleted after having your baby. So, testing for nutrient levels, I run labs with Specter Cell. I like them a lot. You can also use the nutri-Eval from Genova. And just getting on a good program.

Typically for my patients, I do a 10-week plan retests to see where we’re at. And oftentimes, within like one or two plans, I mean, it’s a big difference with how the nutrient levels are looking, how a patient’s feeling a lot more energy, feeling like sex drive is a lot better. You know, cycles are more regular. But I love using IVs for the reason of absorption. You know we know that there’s so many digestive issues for patients nowadays. So getting a good dose of those nutrients right in the bloodstream is so much more effective than a supplement.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, that’s great. So kind of hit upon two different topics I really want to touch upon.  So, let’s hit the first one here. Let’s hit libido and sex drive. We can talk about it from a male perspective. We can talk about it from a female perspective. But why don’t you address some of the underlying hormonal imbalances that you see in a lot of your female patients with low libido? And is it just about getting the hormone to fix that, or are there other things you’re doing in conjunction with just maybe hormone support?

Dr. Lauren Noel: Yeah. Yeah. And this is one especially for women, I think, they kind of have some shame around this. They go “Oh I have this amazing boyfriend, amazing husband. It doesn’t make any sense. How can I not have a sex drive? And yet I just don’t really feel it. Yes, I’ll have sex because I want to make him happy but I’m just not really enjoying it”. And it’s just so common seeing this, even in women in their 20s and 30s sometimes. You know, who are younger and having regular cycles will just feel like don’t have this kind of sex drive happening. So, one of the biggest things I see, I know you see it too, is stress hormones. Cortisol is the best killer for sex drive. You wanna kill your sex drive, get your cortisol levels out of balance. I mean it makes a lot of sense for when women say they’ve gone on a vacation and then they feel more sexual, because they’re relaxed. They’re in a place where they’re able to then, you know, be in that more sexual kind of space. And so that’s first and foremost you want to help this sex drive, you’ve got to balance your stress. You’ve got to cut back on what you’re doing.

You know, if it’s meditation that’s going to start your day in a more mindful kind of way. I started doing meditation recently and it has completely changed my life and I’m able to have a sense of calm in the midst of chaos. It’s crazy.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s great.

Dr. Lauren Noel: Yeah. I’ve been trying to meditate, literally, trying to meditate for years.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Are you using an app? Are you using one those apps right now?

Dr. Lauren Noel: Yeah. I use an app called Headspace. Have you heard of that one?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I use Calm and Headspace. I’ve got to go back and forth with them. Headspace kind of has the Ozzy guy and the Calm has the cool English girl in there.

Dr. Lauren Noel: Ooooh! I haven’t heard of Calm. Is it just C-A-L-M? Calm?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: C-A-L-M. Yeah. It’s a good one.

Dr. Lauren Noel: Okay, cool. Yeah. Headspace has been amazing for me because I think before, I would use different mindfulness apps and I would get a little ADD trying one and trying another. But I like how Headspace was like you build one day at a time. And that really worked for me. So, yeah. I’ve on, I think, Day 40 (Dr. Marchegiani says “Wow”), and I’ve been actually really consistent with using it. And I tell you I have more in my plate now than I ever had and doing that has made it to where I can keep up.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool.

Dr. Lauren Noel: So building in more of that, kind of stress report is especially important. And then get your hormones balanced. So low testosterone?  Huge for women. Most women typically think, “Oh, that’s a male hormone. I know I don’t need testosterone”. But no, women do need testosterone. So, that can be really, really helpful for getting your sex drive on track. And then DHEA too.

So DHEA for sex drive, also for the quality of the eggs, actually. So doing kind of a higher dose of DHEA for women can improve the quality of the eggs in order to get pregnant.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And won’t DHEA also affect testosterone that kind of flows downstream and eventually increase it?

Dr. Lauren Noel: Yep, exactly. So, I won’t really put a younger woman on testosterone typically. We’ll do some pregnenolone and some DHEA to give you those, you know, kind of the precursors and they have that flow into the testosterone. But huge, huge benefits.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s the same approach that I have. Cool.

Dr. Lauren Noel: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: What about herbs? What kind of herbs do you do? Do you like maca, like Peruvian Ginseng? I’ll let you kind of just touch upon some of the herbs that you like.

Dr. Lauren Noel: Yeah, Maca’s a great one. I’ve recently started using Mighty Maca. You know Dr. Anna Cabeca?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Lauren Noel: Yeah, she’s put together a really good product in Mighty Maca. I love that. It’s a good Adaptogen blend. It has some greens in it too. And then the specific kind of Maca that she’s used is just of very good quality. And so we just start with one scoop and ramp up to maybe three or four scoops. You can put a little water and drink that down and that’s awesome for sex drive. And I’ve used that.

Also Femanessence. I love using that as well. And that’s also for men and for women. I know that NHI has put a good product with Femanessence for women. I think men’s is called Revolution Pro. But Maca’s so great. Because it works on the HPA axis. So it works on that whole, you know, stress kind of loop. It’s not all about, you know, we’re just going to boost your testosterone, right? We want to have your brain, your adrenals, the ovaries all communicating with each other. And so Maca really works on that kind of axis in a great way to firm up those pathways.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool. What’s your experience with Horny Goat Weed?

Dr. Lauren Noel: (laughs)

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Have you tried that one for him?

Dr. Lauren Noel: Ha ha ha. I just love that it’s called ‘Horny goat weed’.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I know, I know. It’s hilarious. There’s a story about this.

I was 22. I had like, chronic fatigue. I was in college. And the naturopath-slash-chiropractor I was seeing recommended it to me. And I remember like “what the heck is this?” And I just, I thought I got amazing results from it for me personally. So what’s been your take on it?

Dr. Lauren Noel: Um, I’ve found the same thing, actually. There was one patient who [is] on it. We had to take him off because it was like too much for him. Hahaha. So, I don’t know if you had that experience. But yes. I haven’t used it as much for women. I don’t know if you’ve used it for women. But for men, it’s been really good results, actually.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay. Alright. Very cool. Any other herbal secrets you have?

Dr. Lauren Noel: Uh, let’s see. For sex drive, um what do we think about this one… Um, yeah, I think those are the biggest ones – the Maca, the DHEA, the Pregnenolone, cutting back on stress is the biggest one. I work mainly with women and then getting into the feminine, I think is huge. So, the more that a woman really works on her masculine and just trying to be that forceful kind of masculine nature. I think that’s a big killer for sex drive too. So getting more into your feminine, getting more into your body, whether that’s, you know, using more dancing, or you know, belly dancing actually. One of our new doctors in the clinic, she’s actually a professional belly dancer. She actually does workshops on that. And she’s very vibrant and has this very sexy kind of nature and it’s inspiring. So I think for a woman, really getting into your body. And one think I say is dance naked to music every day. Pick one song and dance naked to it every single day and you’ll get used to being in your body a lot more.

Because I think we have a lot of body issues. We see a lot of images of how a woman should look and that’s a big killer for sex drive too because you see yourself in the mirror and you go “I don’t match up. I’m not pretty. I’m not sexy.” And that’s just such BS. Get into your body, and really own that. That feminine power.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool. And especially, talking about fertility, a lot of women that have these super skinny body types – a lot of them, they may not even be fertile because their body fat is so low.

Dr. Lauren Noel: Yes.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Can you touch upon low body fat and fertility as well?

Dr. Lauren Noel: I’m so glad you said that. Eat fat.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Laurn Noel: Huge. For me, it’s such a no-brainer. I almost forget to mention it sometimes. Low-fat diets, that will give you a low sex drive, because you’re not gonna be making the hormones that you need. So the building block for your hormones is cholesterol. I’m sure your listeners know this. But, it’s like if you think of legos – the big main lego piece is cholesterol. And you add one little piece onto it, you get, you know, progesterone, and estrogen, testosterone. It’s all with that main piece of cholesterol. So, you want to have those good healthy fats in your diet. If you’re eating some chicken, eat the skin. If you’re having some meat, eat the fat. Have butter. Have coconut oil, ghee. I mean, these kinds of fats are so incredibly helpful.

And I’m going to say from experience. Back in the day when I was a vegetarian, my hormones were crazy. My cycles were, I mean, I was having a period every two months. And now, my cycles are right on track. At 34, my cycles are more regular than when I was 24.

So, nutrition is really fundamental for fertility, and fats is really where it’s at.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, that’s really cool. I never knew you were a vegetarian. That’s the first time I heard that.

Dr. Lauren Noel: I think all of us, at some point, were.  But were you a vegetarian?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You know what? I was on this super low-fat kick for a while, thinking fat was bad. And that like, screwed me up and I was super gluten-sensitive because I have autoimmune conditions. So I’m eating light. I remember being in my Exercise Science class, Freshman year in college and they gave us this, like, nutri-calculator, and they would basically give us these assignments and they would track all of our food. And I remember coming in so proud to the professor, being like “Look! I ate 12 servings of grains yesterday” and I was so proud. And everyone’s like high-fiving me and I was like “Yes! 55% of my carbs are grains. This is perfect. And then I looked back, and I’m like “Oh my gosh, no wonder why I had all these health issues and brain fog.” So I’ve made mistakes on the other side of the coin there for sure.

Dr. Lauren Noel: Oh my god. I totally relate to that. Yeah, I mean, back in the day. Those days I was vegetarian, lots of grains. I had raging acne. I was on Acutane twice. I had irregular cycles, you know, digestive issues, a sorry condition and so much of it was related to diet. And after even being on Acutane twice, my skin still did not clear up. It wasn’t until I cut gluten out of my diet, cut out the grains, added in more fats, and then boom. My skin is clearer than it’s ever been, my cycles are regular. Nutrition is so powerful.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It is. It totally is. And on the topic of fertility, can you touch upon digestive health? How important is digestion with fertility? Can mal-absorptions and digestive issues drive fertility and libido issues?

Dr. Lauren Noel: Oh my gosh. Well, as a naturopathic doctor, I’m always saying that your digestive tract is the center of the universe. It controls so much. Not only in your absorption but in your immune system, your neurotransmitter balance, your hormone clearance. If you have chronic constipation, you’re going to have issues with balancing your estrogen. So there’s a big connection there that most people have no idea about. You also activate your thyroid hormones, a good percentage of that in your digestive tract.

So if you’re having continual constipation, diarrhea, absorption issues, you know. Again, you’re not only going to have deficiencies, but your hormones are going to be majorly affected by that – testosterone, and your thyroid, estrogen levels for sure.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That makes sense because you’ve mentioned cholesterol being a building block of our hormones and if we can’t break it down and metabolize it, well then, we’re not going to be able to make the hormones. And so, I think you talked about zinc earlier, and zinc’s so important for our sex hormones too, right?

Dr. Lauren Noel: Exactly. Zinc is important for sex hormones and for your thyroid. You need sufficient zinc levels. Yeah. And actually zinc for fertility. Hello! Zinc for sex drive! Right? That’s why oysters are an aphrodisiac. It’s just loaded with zinc. I personally prescribe oysters all the time. I don’t know about you, but I’m always telling my patients “Low in zinc? Eat some oysters.” And that’s my regular routine at the farmers’ market – have maybe five or six oysters, and I’m good to go.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool! Do you ever do a Zinc tally test with your patients?

Dr. Lauren Noel: Yeah. You know, I did that a lot in medical school. I haven’t done it as much now because I do run the Specter cell. But I think I’m going to bet back to using that. Yeah, it’s a fascinating test and it’s so easy and it’s so interesting because it’s like if your zinc levels are good that zinc is going to taste nasty. But if your zinc is down in the dumps, you’re not going to even taste it. It tastes like water. It’s so amazing.

Dr. Justin Marchgiani: I know. It is really cool. So, people that are listening to Dr. Noel saying “the better it tastes means the more deficient you are, the worse it tastes, less deficient you are, and the faster it tastes good, mean the more deficient, the slower it tastes bad, and it’s kind of in the middle”. So, the faster it’s good, the more, the slower it’s bad, that’s the best. Cool.

Dr. Lauren Noel: Yeah. So if it tastes nasty to you, that means that you have a good amount of zinc in there.

Leaky Gut

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes, absolutely. Very cool. Well, Doc, I know you do a lot of IV nutrition and we know today with leaky gut and chronic gut infections. Can you talk about, you know, leaky gut a little bit and some of the things that you’re doing in your office with IV nutrients and even B12 and intramuscular injection work as well?

Dr. Lauren Noel: Yeah. So, nowadays, I mean, so many of us are having digestive problems. The culture that we live in, the standard American diet, and the environment that we’re in with environmental toxins, we just have the kind of life setup right now that is very conducive for leaky gut, unfortunately.

Antibiotics, medications, birth control pills, all of these we know can really set up the digestive tract to have inflammation and permeability. So I think, especially that we’re kind of in a Paleo sphere, we hear leaky gut so much. It’s almost like this buzz term. I think some of these people kind of roll their eyes at it. They think that it’s not a real thing. But it’s super real. And now, finally conventional doctors are coming on board and actually seeing it as something that’s legit and medically sound.

So finally, the gastroenterology journals are now being at the information for that and it’s translating over to the conventional medical realm and it’s just great. Not fast enough, but it’s starting to happen.

So leaky gut is really huge and like I said before, leaky gut contributes to everything else – nutrient deficiencies. If you have leaky gut, you’re going to have some nutrient deficiencies. And if you have leaky gut, you’re also going to be more likely to have issues with low enzymes, low stomach acids, dispiarosis of your gut. So imbalancing the flora. And this also contributes to things like parasites. Candida, you know, infections in the gut which kind of worsens sort of this whole cycle because you get these infections and then it feeds back into damaging the digestive tract even more.

So, the benefit of injectable nutrition is it completely bypasses the gut. We don’t have to worry about, are you going to get this supplement absorbed? Are you going to get the benefits of changing your diet absorbed? So, going right into the bloodstream, it’s a hundred percent absorption. So we use both intramuscular shots, and also IV nutrition. And we decide to go one or the other based on the patient, based on the condition, based on cost. But I live using it  on patients especially like with inflammatory bowel disease. So ulcer, Crohn’s disease, Celiac. I mean it’s just really especially good for those kinds of situations, autoimmune disease. I’m such a believer and I’ve done IVs in about 5000 patients now. I know how to see what works, what doesn’t work, and for those specific patients it can be pretty miraculous.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I remember seeing you back in the fall at the Bulletproof conference and you were with lines of people and you were doing IVs on back then.

Dr. Lauren Noel: Well, that was a perfect crowd for that because whatever Dave says to do, they’re like Sign me up! We said “Okay, do you want a Bulletproof” which means do you want an I-Glutathione, and they would be “Yes. Whatever you want, we’re going to do it.” And so, yeah, it was a very captive audience. But I think we did like 50 or 100 IVs in 2 or 3 days we were there. It’s a lot, yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s cool. Very cool. So can you talk about why you would do an intramuscular injection over an IV and what the benefit is?

Dr. Lauren Noel: Yeah. So most things we can put on an IV. There are a couple of things not so good in an IV like something that’s fat soluble. So Vitamin A for example tends to do better in a shot. You don’t really want that droplets in your IV. Doesn’t really absorb as well. And also Vitamin D is one we don’t typically do in an IV. But generally speaking, in an IV we can do magnesium, which is very important for female hormones, we do zinc, we’ve talked about that. Selenium, we can throw in there too. All B vitamins, so B1 through 12. Uh, trace minerals calcium, Vitamin C, and then we can get really specific and throwing in things like glutathione which is hugely important for autoimmune and for anti-aging. Amazing detoxification stimulator. And so the IVs we can do a lot higher dosage in the bags but with the shots again, so things like Vitamin A or Vitamin D, I resort to a shot because it’s more of a fat-soluble nutrient. Also, there are some things in an IV you cannot put in a shot. Like, Vitamin C tends to hurt because it’s ascorbic acid and it doesn’t feel as good. Zinc, I’ve never done in a shot. I think that would probably be pretty tender.

So, it just depends on the comfort for the patient, the way that the delivery would go. But for most people, I usually use IVs and shots because we can get really strategic on what can go on each one.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, that’s very cool. Regarding, like, an IV, if I were to get an IV, is just your basic Meyer’s Cocktail good enough, or what would you recommend to the average person that’s just stressed and just wants to get a little boost?

Dr. Lauren Noel: I would probably get our Toes in the Sand formula. So, our clinic Shine Natural Medicine kind of has a beach theme. All the different formulas have a beach name to it and so Toes in the Sand is really geared towards stress relief.

So I know you’re a busy guy. You’re running a clinic. You’re a husband. You’re doing a lot with Real Estate. So, you have a lot on your plate. So I would, for you, probably add in a little bit more magnesium, and also Vitamin B5. B5, dexpanthenol or pantothenic acid. You know, B vitamin for adrenal function. I’d probably do double Vitamin C for you because the adrenals love the extra vitamin C. Um, yeah, but I’d do basically do sort of a modified Meyer’s cocktail for you and do more stress support.

And then also things like L-carnitine is great for something you know, like fat burning and for the muscles. And probably extra taurine too. Taurine is a great amino acid that really works to drive the minerals into the cells. So, even though we’re doing some good minerals, helping to drive them into the cell with taurine can also be really useful for that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s cool. So, Toes in the Sand. What are other awesome names that you have. I look forward to hearing these. What are they?

Dr. Lauren Noel: We have our lifeguard formula. That’s for immune. So if you’re getting sick, that’s an amazing formula for that. We also have the motion of the ocean. That’s a sex drive formula.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hold on, we have to stop for that. So what’s in the sex drive formula. Is it Maca and zinc or what do we have?

Dr. Lauren Noel: Yeah, we have extra zinc and also we have extra B6. Because that helps to support your estrogen level. So, yeah. And then for the Motion of the Ocean, we have clear waters, that’s our detox formula, so we do extra glutathione with that. We can also add in molybdenum, it’s an important mineral for detox. And then, going off the top of my head, we have, what was the other one? We have Toes in the Sand, Motion of the Ocean, Clearwaters, and there’s one for energy… Oh! Uhm, Seas the Day.

So S-E-A-S so Seas the Day. That on is a lot more for energy. So definitely, it has some extra B5 and some homeopathic so we can add in to do that too.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Very cool. So whoever’s doing your branding is doing a really good job.

Dr. Lauren Noel:  You’re talking to her! Hahaha.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Awesome! Very cool!

Dr. Lauren Noel: Thank you!

IV Nutrition

 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And do you still have your little bus thing where you kind of drive around and give the happy hour shots?

Dr. Lauren Noel: That was on my previous practice. We’re not doing that right now. But you know, the IV therapy laws have been taking some changes. I don’t know if we’re going to be able to do that. It’s unfortunate but if we can get around to doing that again, we definitely will. But I love doing the mobile IVs and the shots just coming to where you are, it’s just more convenient. So, yeah, we may visit that again.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That is so cool. So let’s talk about B12 injections. So, we have lots of stuff out there. We have Ben Lynch, we have all these people talking about methylation and folate and B12. Should you do B12, cyano B12, adenosine B12, you know? Should you activate folate? What’s your take on that and how are you essentially giving it the injection?

Dr. Lauren Noel: Yeah. That’s a really good question. I test patients for methylation defects. I’m doing testing to see what their MTH or potential mutations would be. And then from that point, we can see, okay, is it important that we do methyl nutrition for them. So for people listening who are familiar with this, for example folic acid, we hear of that being super important for fertility. And the women, when they want to get pregnant, they take folic acid, but unfortunately, folic acid is a synthetic form of the vitamin. It’s not something that your body really recognizes. So it’s important to use a methylated form of that and so in any supplement that we use at the clinic, we’re always using methyl folate.

But the cool thing is that’s the kind of folic acid or folate that you get in dark leafy greens. So if you’re eating a really good diet, you’re eating a lot of dark leafy greens, you’re already going to get that in your diet anyway. Now when it comes to using methyl, versus non-methyl like for example, B12, what I typically do, I will use methyl B12 on most people.  I find in my practice most people do best with that. Occasionally there is someone who will go say “That kind of made me feel a little bit, maybe too anxious, to have me feel just a little bit overstimulated” if that’s the case, then we’ll switch to doing the hydroxocobalamin. I’m typically not using the cyanocobalamin. It’s not even something I carry because I find we don’t usually need to use it.

What about in your practice? What do you find with the methyl B12 versus the cyano? I’m curious what you’re using.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, a lot of times with patients that have methyl issues, we’ll use the methylonin where it’s a B12 and AL-MTHFR and LMTHFR. And we’ll do it sublingual but we’ll run the organic acid from time to time and we’ll see people needing Adenosil B12 and then we’ll use Zymogen It makes it really good.

Well, I think Ben Lynch’s company Seeking Health has a really good Adenosil B12. Allergy Research has a good one but they messed it up because they put a little bit of folic acid with it in there. I’m like “ah, you guys gotta pull the folic acid”.

Dr. Lauren Noel: Amateur move.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I know. So, typically, the methyl, the MTHFR, the L-form will do and then if it says, we’ll do the adenosil.

Dr. Lauren Noel: And what percentage of patients would you say are doing methyl versus adenosil?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You know what, I would say a smaller percent. I would say maybe a quarter to a third are coming back with adenosil. But most of the time, you can’t go wrong with the methyl and I think cyano isn’t as good. Methyl is, I think, the best way to go. Would you agree?

Dr. Lauren Noel: Yeah, totally. I concur. And I’ve been wanting to run more of the organic acids. That’s on the organic acids panel, right?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, that’s on the methylation site which is really cool.

Dr. Lauren Noel: Okay, yeah. You sold me on that. Yeah. And I love zymogen. I think it’s a good product. So it’s – what’s the specific product by zymogen that has the adenosil?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s the—it’s actually Seeking Health. Again, I think Ben Lynch uses a lot of Zymogen stuff it’s the Seeking Health adenosil product.

Dr. Lauren Noel: Okay. Awesome. Thank you.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: If I find it after the show I’ll show it to you.

Dr. Lauren Noel: Thank you. Yah. That’s very useful. It’s very rare that I see an issue with the methyl but occasionally, they’ll say “I just felt a little bit kind of sort of jittery or wired with that shots”. So I think that might be that subset of people that could use the adenosil.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. There’s actually been a lot of patients coming in this week, myself. We were testing them and they’re coming back anemic. And not the B12 folate kind that we just talked about but iron-based.

Dr. Lauren Noel: Oh my gosh. Huge.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And what’s your experience using IV Ferritin or IV Iron?

Dr. Lauren Noel: Miraculous. Miraculous for patients who especially have maybe tried the oral iron before, and it can be very constipating and just caused a lot of digestive upset. And also too, with like the whole leaky gut thing.  If they have leaky gut, getting their iron levels turned around, it can take a long, long time to do. So IV Iron is like the clouds part, you know, angels are singing opera. Huge, huge difference. And some patients just tend to need a little bit more support on going with that. So what I’ll do first thing is do an iron panel, see where they’re at starting point, look at the ferritin. If I see a Ferritin below a 20, I’m probably going to be looking at doing some injectable iron. So I’ve seen it as low as, I think, 4. So, what’s the lowest Ferritin you’ve seen?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’ve seen like right around there, where like Lab Core will highlight it in red and say “Alert”.

Dr. Lauren Noel: Yes. Yah. And the important is when you’re starting IV iron or iron shots, starting very, very low, and working up because it does have a higher possibility of allergy. So we’ll start with just a fourth a milliliter in IVs. Start very, very low and just gradually work our way up and we’ll even get up to 1 to  even 2 milliliters and within 1 to 2 months we see the levels, like, completely different. And usually maybe once or twice a week, occasionally I do three times a week if they’re really, really anemic. But it’s my favorite thing that we have for people who are really anemic.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And do you ever do injections for Ferritin?

Dr. Lauren Noel: Yes, yes. So we’ll do. Um, what I use is Dex Ferrum in the clinic. That’s what I’ve used and I found that it works best in terms of pain. We used to use something called Iron 59 and that was really painful. So switching to something that’s a little less painful is expensive so that the cost can be a little issue to some people. But yeah, so we’ll do the iron shot – it has to be done in a specific technique called a Z track just to prevent any bruising or iron stain marks. So make it sure, the doctor is really trained to do that. But yes, we’ll do it either in the bum, kind of like in the hip area, or in the IV.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Can you go in to what that Z track was again? I’m really curious.

Dr. Lauren Noel: Yah. So, normally when you get a shot, you basically do perpendicular. So, just insert the needle right in and you have a lot more cushion back there than you might think. You can actually use pretty much the full length of the needle.

With the Z track, what the goal is to create basically a traction where you’re-. How can I explain this? So basically, you’re going into a patient, I’m going to use, say, my left hand, let’s say it’s on their right butt cheek, so I’ll my left hand to traction up. It’s sort of like stretching the skin up and then I’ll insert the needle. And then, I will insert the contents of the shot and then once the shot is done, I’ll actually keep it in there for 10 to 20 seconds or so. And then as I release the needle out, I let go of my left hand so that basically what happens is it sort of like traps the contents of the shot deeper in the skin so that when I release the hand the skin that is going back to its normal place its uh–. How do I explain that? Am I explaining that okay?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes. That sounds good. Yeah.

Dr. Lauren Noel: Yeah, so it traps the contents of the shot so it doesn’t leak back out from where it was injected from. Sometimes when you give a shot, you’re going to have a little bit of the vitamin, you know, you’ve got to kind of wipe it with a little cotton. So you do that Z track, it’s much less likely to get that. So it traps that deeper and so you’re not going to get that staining, basically.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool. I know that was a very nerdy question. I may have caught you off guard with that.

Dr. Lauren Noel: It’s probably easier with the video, which we do to show patients. But it’s something that we do ourselves. I mean, I don’t even let patients take iron shots at home. For many patients, they’ll take home the B12 shots. We can show them how to do it. But that one we just do in the clinic, so we don’t get the staining.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool! And I’ve been seeing a lot of patients come in at me, like I just mentioned we had a couple of different causes. You know, maybe if you’re a vegetarian, it could be one. It could be a malabsorption from low stomach acid. It could have been even just a leaky gut thing. But one of the things I’m seeing a lot especially with my female patients that are estrogen-dominant is excessive menstruation. So when I’m interviewing my patients and I go into this area about how many tampons? How many pads are you using? How many days are you bleeding? They’re always kind of like “Wait a minute. You’re a male doctor. How do you…” So it kind of like freaks them out a little bit.

So now that I got a female doctor that’s skilled in this area, I want to get your take on, hey, you know, if you’re going through this many tampons per day and bleeding this long, maybe it’s too much. Maybe that’s a sign of estrogen dominance that could lead to anemia. Can you touch upon that?

Dr. Lauren Noel: Yeah. That’s a huge one. So if you’re continually having a period, you’re obviously going to losing a lot of blood. And with blood goes iron. So, another clue that you could sense from estrogen dominance is maybe spotting between your periods. Also, if you have really difficult periods like cramps, maybe breast tenderness, just also issues like maybe some emotional things before your period. You feel more weepy and just feel like a lot more kind of irritability. Those are just potential clues that your hormones could be a little out of balance.

And the reason why estrogen dominance can lead to heavier periods is that because estrogen is a proliferator of tissues. So it makes the lining of the uterus become thicker and progesterone works sort of like a, uhm. I see that estrogen builds it up and the progesterone kind of pats it down. So if you are too dominant on estrogen you’re gonna be building too much of a tissue and if you’re low on progesterone you’re not gonna pat that down so you can get some spotting.

So really working to balance out the hormones is super important. It goes back to, like you said, the digestive tract, also the liver is your main filter for hormones and doing some work on resetting the liver pathways doing the methylation support. Multisol would be a great herb to add in to help with liver clearance. And then also looking at maybe doing some specific supplements like Dim or I3Cs, doing some specific estrogen balancers. Have you talked about Dim on your show before?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I haven’t really talked about it but I will leave the floor open to you here.

Dr. Lauren Noel: Yeah, so one of the great benefits of broccoli or the brassica family is that it helps balance your estrogens actually. It helps to clear excess estrogens from the liver. So that’s something I’ll use in my practice a lot when there is some estrogen dominance kind of picture, and typically just a capsule twice a day of Dim. I use Estro Dim from Orton Molecular but there’s some great supplements from various companies. But, it’s taking one of the ingredients from broccoli in a highly concentrated form and you’re doing that for about three to six months and you’ll see that those dominant estrogen issues oftentimes gets resolved. So that’s hugely important. And then, I don’t there’s anything else about estrogen dominance.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s also helping that 2 to 4 to 16 ratio, right?

Dr. Lauren Noel: Yeah, so preventing that potential breast cancer risk.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: How does that ratio flip? I always mess it up. I don’t really get the specifics. Is it we get less of the 16 more of the 4 and the 2?

Dr. Lauren Noel: You want more of the two. I think you want to be 2 good. That’s it. 2 good.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I always confuse those. So more of the 2. 2 good. I’ll never forget that now.

Dr. Lauren Noel: You wanna be 2 good.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Haha. 2 good. Perfect. Love it. So, looking at just objective markers here, because I always kind of ask my patients this every time they make a patient call. So what would you consider too much for tampon usage? Like it’s market that you know you’re bleeding too much. 4? More? Maybe kind of that threshold?

Dr. Lauren Noel: Yeah. I would say 4 is a good threshold marker. But it’s more than that. I look in to see what’s going on with the hormones.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And then 3 days would be kind of more like your cut-off?

Dr. Lauren Noel: Yeah. I mean, you want maybe your first 2 or 3 days to be typically more in the heavier side. But if you find that after three days, you’re still going through like 4 or more tampons, I would look into things. Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it. Alright. That really helps. I see a lot of patients that are anemic and then you also got some patients that may have fibroid issues and they’re anemic and they’re also taking iron with the fibroid. Can you talk about why taking iron might actually make that fibroid grow bigger?

Dr. Lauren Noel: Well, it can affect your estrogen levels, your hormones. Is that the pathway you’re thinking of?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well I’ve just seen some patients where the iron will actually fuel the growth of the fibroid and the fibroid will continue to grow. And you can give all this around and this will get sucked up by the fibroid so it never really gets into the blood where it needs to go. Have you seen that before?

Dr. Lauren Noel: Right. Yeah. That’s a good one, Doc. I haven’t seen that one as much but that makes a lot of sense. I mean, iron can contribute to growth and we know that iron can feed dispiosis and infections. So that’s why I’m always testing to see that it’s not one of the things that I give very casually. You don’t really want to take iron unless you really need it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right. You’re gonna give iron and then you’ll follow up with like a ferritin or like a saturation or a UIVC kind of thing, am I right?

Dr. Lauren Noel: Yup. Every time. We’re doing ferritin, iron saturation, total iron binding capacity, and transferrin, I mean the whole thing. I’m looking at the blood cell count, if you have healthy counts. If you’re anemic, you tend to have lower red blood cells. Your hematocrit tends to be lower which is basically what percentage of your total blood is made up of red blood cells. And if that’s low, that’s also a clue for anemia or low iron. And then your hemoglobin. So your iron is attached to oxygen in the cell and if you are deficient in iron, you’re also going to be low on oxygen too.

One little trick to see if you might be low on iron, for you guys listening, you want to look in the mirror. You want to look at the inside of your lower part of your eyelids. That’s your conjunctivus. So just go ahead and look in the mirror. Pull down and look at the inner part of your eyelids, if you see that it’s actually really pale, it should be a nice pink color. If that really pale, it’s a clue that you could be anemic. Also looking at your fingernails, if you push on your fingernails and then release you want it to turn pink again really quickly, and if it stays white for a while that’s a clue that you may be deficient in iron.

And then another little trick too is that if you find yourself yawning a lot, like let’s say you’re doing a workout and you just yawn all the time, that could be a clue that you’re just not getting enough of that oxygen and that it might be a clue of low iron too. So, just something to pay attention to.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s really cool. I love the little clinical takeaways, the physical exams. The takeaways are so great.

Dr. Lauren Noel: Really helpful.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, one of the best parts of natural medicine are those little pearls right there.

Dr. Lauren Noel: Mhhmm. And also one for zinc that we didn’t mention before is the white spots on your fingernails. That could be a zinc issue. Or if you have vertical ridges or just ridging on your nails, that could be a mineral issue. So another thing to check out.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool. And also one last thing that I learned to is if you take your hands and you extend your fingers back like if you’re pressing them so that you’re extending them back, that lifeline across there should start turning more read and if it doesn’t turn red and if it stays white, that’s another sign of anemia too.

Dr. Lauren Noel: Oh yea. I like that.

Iodine

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool. Awesome, Doc. You’re giving us a lot of information. Last question here. I want to touch upon. It’s such a hot question, especially with thyroid patients and such. Can you talk a bit more about iodine and how you use it with your patients and how you kind of be a little more ginger about it with autoimmune patients. What’s your take on iodine?

Dr. Lauren Noel: Yeah. It’s such a hot topic and it’s so confusing for people because you hear of iodine being so good for the thyroid. But then you hear that most thyroid conditions are autoimmune related. So is it okay with autoimmune is it now okay?

The camp of people that say “Never ever get iodine with autoimmune”. To me, the way that I go about it is I always check a full thyroid panel including antibodies. And if I see that there’s autoimmune issues and there’s elevated antibodies I tend to not do iodine like that.

Sometimes I will. You know when I do iodine or have some C vegetables, I feel really good. I listen to that. So sometimes I will make an exception for patients but I tend to not especially if I’m seeing elevated antibodies. If I over and over check antibodies and see that the levels are very low, and the patient is still having thyroid issues, then I will add in some iodine and just very, very slowly work up to it.

For myself, I had a very bad experience with iodine. I did too much of it and it really affected my thyroid very negatively. So you don’t want to take iodine unless you need it. So for many of my patients, I will do a blood test and see where their levels are at. But I’m a little bit cautious about using just a lot of iodine.

For women who have fiber-cystic breasts, it can be very helpful for them to actually apply iodine unto the breast. Dr. Jonathan Wright, he says to apply on the bottom of the feet, which is kind of a funny place. But that can be very helpful for those fibrocystic issues of painful breasts with your cycles.

But that’s how I tend to view iodine. I’m curious about you though.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, very, very similar. I always look to see if there are antibodies. Again, with iodination which is the process of making thyroid hormones – the body binds some thyrosine to the iodine molecule. And in that process, it spits off a whole bunch of hydrogen peroxide. And if we have Selenium deficiency, well, selenium normally comes in there and it pulls off some of the oxygen molecules and making it water and O2. And if we don’t have the selenium there, then the hydrogen peroxide can stimulate that immune system to go attack it.

I think really focusing on, especially when they’re autoimmune, really the selenium first. It’s really the best way to go. I’m totally in sync with exactly what you’re saying there.

Dr. Lauren Noel: Yeah. And are you testing iodine?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You know what, I don’t really test it too much. Again, I’m familiar with Doctor Status, got a really good 24-hour iodine test. They got a spot test as well. I don’t do it too much. I kind of start with the potassium iodide and I just start up very gently and I just load up very slow with patience. And it tends to work. I’ll also look on the tests if their T4s and the lower end of the range, you know that’s a building block for T4. So then, we’ll start using just a little bit of iodine there as well.

Dr. Lauren Noel: And you’re using it as the potassium iodide?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yah. I’ll use potassium iodide and iodine. I like the new Lou Gaal Socket Generation because it’s got the Selenium and the B vitamins and the folic minerals and the vitamin C. And I like that because the thyroid really wants the iodide but a lot of times the breast tissue really wants a lot of the iodine so I really give it both together because a lot of times that breast tissue will take it all up and clogs it.

Dr. Lauren Noel: Because you were giving pearls. I just wrote that down. Thank you!

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, I got little pearls written down for myself. So I’m super stoked.

Dr. Lauren Noel: Sweet. Give and take.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I love it, I love it. So Dr. Lauren, today’s interview was awesome I want to have you back real soon. I just want you to talk about a little more about your clinic. I know you’re seeing patients abroad via Skype and the phone. I know some have the happy hour specials for shots and IVs. And I’m actually looking forward to coming down at Salona Beach for you clinic and get an IV really soon.

Dr. Lauren Noel: Yeah, so I work with patients all over the country. That’s the benefit of how really with this radio show we can reach people all over the world. It’s such a good bonus that I get to work with patients out of the state and out of the country. So, I do that. About half my patients are not even in California. But for local patients, we do have the local IV therapy program. We mentioned we have the whole IV menu, shot menu, and on Wednesday afternoons, we have the happy hours. We call it happy hour. It’s really about getting patients in the door it’s kind of catchy. But then we can really do the work of doing the full naturopathic care. So yeah, we’re doing that every week. Like I said, we finished our website ShineNaturalMedicine.com. But I work with patients over phone and Skype all the time. So for anyone listening, if you feel like you’re not jiving with your doctor, maybe it’s been a while since you’ve looked into things, and you resonate with some of the things we talked about. I’d love to talk to you and help you feel a lot better.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Plus, how could you not love those happy hour IVs? Those names are awesome, like the motion of the ocean? How could you not want that?

Dr. Lauren Noel: They’re pretty awesome. I love them. They’re so addictive.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: How about your podcasts. I know you’re like almost over a million hits and stuff. How’s that going?

Dr. Lauren Noel: Yeah. So Dr. Low Radio. I’ve been doing that 4 years. And it started as a hobby and it turned into my main patient generator. It’s amazing. It’s sort of taken a life of its own. But yes, every week, I do my show. Every week is a different topic. You can find me on itunes. Search in the podcast directory Dr. Low Radio. And we have had you on the show a few months back. And we have to get you back on because that was an awesome show. So yeah, it’s amazing. It’s free content. I think about 133 shows. It’s so much information. I have listeners who listen to every single show and I swear they probably know more than most doctors at this point.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I know you had some good naturopathic doctors out there. You had Dr. Sherry Ten Penny on there. That’s a really high-quality show and you do a great job hosting it too.

Dr. Lauren Noel: Thanks. Thanks. Takes one to know one.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, I look forward to seeing you next month at Paleo FX. Super stoked and looking forward to hearing you talk and I love the new site. It looks so good.

Dr. Lauren Noel: Thank you so much. I’m looking forward to catch up with you and seeing you in person.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Great, Dr. Lauren. I’m looking forward to chatting with you really soon.

Dr. Lauren Noel: Thanks guys. Thanks for listening, you guys.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Thanks. Take care.
[retweet]

Iodine and Hashimotos… Friend or Foe?

By Dr. Justin Marchegiani

Iodine and Hashimotos thyroiditis are two very controversial yet very popular areas of discussion in regards to the treatment of hypothyroidism. Most people who hear of someone suffering from low thyroid symptoms will think of iodine as the first magical solution. Iodine is an essential nutrient needed for thyroid-hormone synthesis, so it’s understandable that these inferences would be drawn. There are people in the United States that suffer from iodine deficiency because of poor nutrition, and some might live in certain parts of the world (like the goiter belt in the United States) where iodine is deficient in the soil. Most people aren’t aware that the majority of thyroid issues are an an autoimmune disease called Hashimotos thyroiditis.

Iodine and Selenium

There’s one problem: when iodine is given in high amounts in the presence of  inadequate amounts of selenium, inflammation can occur. Selenium is also needed to activate thyroid hormone from T4 (inactive) to T3 (active). Most patients I see, even when given Synthroid, the standard-of-care treatment, have a difficult time converting it into T3. The scientific literature also supports that the majority of thyroid conditions are autoimmune in nature, making the necessity of selenium even more important.

Too much Iodine

Too much iodine can cause a condition known as the Wolff–Chaikoff effect, which, in effect, causes short-term hypothyroidism. This is a process where too much iodine is given and the thyroid gland responds by shutting down thyroid hormone production for up to 10 days. During this time, the thyroid gland uses an escape mechanism in which more iodine accumulates in the blood by blocking its transport into the thyroid tissue via the sodium-iodide symporter (NIS). By blocking the thyroid gland’s uptake of iodine, the body has time to urinate out the extra iodine. 

On the other side of the fence, we see another effect known as the Jod-Basedow phenomenon in which patients with a goiter (low iodine causes an enlarged thyroid gland) who are given too much iodine will go into a hyperthyroid state.

iodine

Iodine and the Double-Edged Sword

So you can see that it gets a little confusing regarding iodine and its effects on the average person. On one side of the coin, you may get a hyperthyroid effect; on the other, you may get a hypothyroid effect.

I strongly recommend you see your functional-medicine doctor before taking large amounts of iodine. If you want to get your thyroid assessed, please click here!

When iodine is used, it should always be used in smaller amounts, tapering up to a higher dose. There are doctors who are famous for using higher amounts of iodine to treat thyroid disorders. Dr. Brownstein for instance. Even when treating Hashimoto’s, he has made comments referencing that using iodine early on is akin to throwing gasoline on the fire. I am also aware that he typically uses selenium, magnesium, zinc, vitamin C, and sea salt in conjunction with iodine. As you can see, iodine is never used alone.

What Types of Iodine Are Best?

Using a combination of iodine and iodide is always best. There are solutions on the market, such as Lugols or Iosol, that contain the proper balance of iodine to iodide. When iodine is given in supplement form, it’s primarily taken up by the breast tissues, prostate, uterus, and ovarian tissues. I always give a solution that contains both iodine and iodide.

Below is some technical scientific jargon, but as long as you understand the three key steps I share below, you will have a good grasp of what’s going on in your thyroid gland.

thyroid hormone synthesis

The Key Steps to Making Thyroid Hormone

  1. NIS (sodium-iodide symporter): The NIS brings iodide from the blood into the thyroid tissue. Iodide is then converted to iodine via an oxidation reaction. This is just a fancy term that means it loses some electrons.
  2. Iodine is bound to thyroid-binding globulin in a process known as organification.
  3. Iodine plus thyroid-binding globulin is bound to a molecule of tyrosine. Three other molecules of iodine are also present, making it four iodine molecules total. This is our storage, or inactive, thyroid hormone T4.

iodine and oxidation

The By-products of Thyroid Metabolism

The key thing to focus on in the picture above is that when thyroid hormone is made, hydrogen peroxide (H2O2) is pumped out as a by-product of the reaction. Hydrogen peroxide can be very inflammatory and can even call some B-cell lymphocytes to the scene. The B cells are there to help clean the inflammation yet can cause more inflammation as the hydrogen peroxide accumulates.

You can think of selenium, the main ingredient to glutathione peroxidase, as the water that is needed to put out the fire in the thyroid tissue. Without selenium,  thyroid will continue to burn and the immune system will continue to call more antibodies to the scene, including thyroid peroxidase antibodies (TPOAb) and TBG ab, to fight the good fight. Over time, through collateral damage, the thyroid will burn a slow death. Typically, in about 8–10 years, you will start seeing thyroid symptoms during autoimmunity.

Synthroid Prescription

For most patients, as they’ve probably already experienced, their doctor won’t have too many answers outside of a Synthroid prescription. You have already read this above, but in the video as well, you will see that Synthroid does nothing to address the underlying inflammation and autoimmunity that is occurring. It also doesn’t address any of the key nutrients that would be necessary to help put the fire out.

Selenomethionine (selenium) has been shown to reduce thyroid antibodies in as little as three months! Selenium is an essential nutrient that every thyroid patient needs to be supplemented with. Not all patients may need iodine initially; you may be accidentally waking a sleeping dragon if iodine is given.

If you are suffering from and autoimmune thyroid condition, click here for answers!


 References:

Chapter 48, “SYNTHESIS OF THYROID HORMONES” in: Walter F., PhD. Boron (2003). Medical Physiology: A Cellular And Molecular Approach. Elsevier/Saunders. p. 1300.

 


The entire contents of this website are based upon the opinions of Dr. Justin Marchegiani unless otherwise noted. Individual articles are based upon the opinions of the respective author, who retains copyright as marked. The information on this website is not intended to replace a one-on-one relationship with a qualified health care professional and is not intended as medical advice. It is intended as a sharing of knowledge and information from the research and experience of Dr. Justin and his community. Dr. Justin encourages you to make your own health care decisions based upon your research and in partnership with a qualified healthcare professional. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. Dr. Marchegiani’s products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. If you are pregnant, nursing, taking medication, or have a medical condition, consult your physician before using any products.