Why Do I Have Low Motivation – Functional Medicine Solutions | Podcast #358

Motivation is the process that initiates, guides, and maintains goal-oriented behaviors. It is what causes you to act, whether getting a glass of water to reduce thirst or reading a book to gain knowledge.

In this video, Dr. J and Evan Brand talk about the physiological issues behind your decreasing motivation and the functional medicine strategies, hormones, and lifestyle changes you need to do to improve your mood and overall health function.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

In this episode, we cover:

0:00  Introduction
1:41  What are the root causes of low motivation?
4:14  The physiological explanation of low motivation
8:39  Functional medicine strategies to improve motivation
10:53 The role of thyroid function to your body’s overall function
16:38 Lifestyle upgrade to boost your motivation

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We are going to be talking about motivation. Really excited to have a nice podcast on this topic. Evan, how we doing today this morning? 

Evan Brand: I’m doing really well. I’m feeling really motivated. Hence, this topic on motivation. You know, I look around on society and I just see the way that people carry themselves. You know, we’ve become so casual in terms of dress. I mean, when you see people that are just coming out at restaurants, they’re wearing Crocs and sweatpants and, you know, hoodies. People just don’t appear to take good care of themselves, in general. And maybe that’s different in other cities but even talking to people when I bought a sports coat. I talked to the guy at the suit store, and he agreed with me that over the last 20 years, people just become so casual. And with that casual dress, I think that changes people’s level of motivation. When I’m in sweatpants and a hoodie, I feel less motivated, and less ready to charge the world as opposed to when I have on even something like a polo. I think, maybe that’s part of it, but I know there’s a lot of chemical, neurotransmitter, and gut reactions, you know, better involved too. So, what do you think, I mean, am I, am I onto something with the clothing? Have you seen a change even in your lifetime with people? 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, I think people like, I talked to a lot of patients and friends and like, ‘oh you get to work at home and see patients all over the world. That’s awesome, that must be so easy to just kind of get up and get ready’. I’m like, well I still shower and kind of get ready like I’m going to the office anyway, I wanna look good, I wanna feel good, I wanna feel clean, I wanna feel fresh, plus I wanna be able to jump on a video or see a patient, I wanna have a higher level of professionalism on how I look. So, I do think there’s energy just like you said, in just that look in the park, dress in the park feeling good, right? I think that all helps. I think it moves the needle. That makes sense.  

Evan Brand: Well, let’s see some of the root causes of that. I mean, low motivation, in general, the first thing that I think of and maybe your average listeners thinking of, they listen to us for a while, they’re gonna think of dopamine. And that certainly one potential cause and we can measure that using urine organic acids testing. So, we’ll look at the markers for dopamine on that test that we can see, and I would say that 90% of people I test are pretty low and the other 10% are people that have Clostridia bacterial overgrowth. You and I have talked about this before, we did a whole show of Clostridia, I believe, but the mechanism is that if you have Clostridia which is a certain type of bacteria in the gut that will actually inhibit the enzyme dopamine beta hydroxylase and then you have this build up of dopamine. So, you have some of these mood issues that’ll happen because of your gut. So, if you fix your gut, that high dopamine markers normalize. But otherwise, I see, generally, pretty low dopamine and maybe you and I can kind of break down why is that happening. I think chronic stress is a big one. But I wonder if there’s a role of like excess caffeine, have you seen anything look like too much coffee, your stimulants depleting dopamine, what about drugs like the Adderall drugs, that kind of stuff.    

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I think we’ve, with motivation, it’s a couple things right. We have kind of the psychological kind of mindset aspect, I think that’s really important. So, I think number one, you gotta enjoy what you’re doing or you have at least kind of know what your talents or your skills that you’re at. So, you can work on doing things that one you enjoy and two you are actually good at. So, you can perform at a higher level, right? I think it’s a combination of those two things. And I think, also, there’s some people that what if you’re not good at things, right, so I think early on if you’re younger and you’re listening to this as you grow up, you really wanna look at developing talents. tacks and skills set. And you really wanna look at the marketplace and say, ‘where, um, where’s your gaps in the marketplace in regards to skill, whether on the health side or on the tacks side or on engineering. We really wanna look at where you kind of plug yourself into the marketplace, whether there are opportunities and then it’s also good to evaluate your kind of natural talents and skill sets. You kind of look at, you know, what people tell, I’ve always told you good at. There’s different tests out there whether it’s a Myers-Brigg personality test or, uh, I think another test out there called DISC, D-I-S-C test. There’s different tests out there that kind of help you understand, kind where your natural talents are at and then also just really observing and being aware of what you really enjoy doing. Usually, things that you enjoy doing, tend to be better at it because you don’t mind working harder at it. I think those are important, so then when you start doing things, you’ll really enjoy it. Now, on the physiological side, chronic stress well either acutely raises cortisol all over time. That cortisol can become lower which can affect energy and mood and cause your body to break down faster. And of course, that same level of adrenal stress can also lower dopamine, lower adrenaline which can then affect focus and motivation at a biochemical neurological level too. So, I think it’s good to look at both of those, so we can test the adrenal gland and know what’s happening at the adrenal level. We can also look at the neurotransmitters, the organic acid testing and look at various metabolites for Homovanillate, which is a metabolite for dopamine and then Vanilmandelate, which is a metabolite for adrenaline. We can get a window and into both of those metabolites and see how the brain is functioning on the inside.  

Evan Brand: Yeah. That’s a great point. People that are just doing stuff that they don’t enjoy, I mean, how are you gonna be motivated for life if you make up, you don’t enjoy it. I talked to a guy who picks up our garbage and he loves it. He loves his job. He loves driving around with a big truck all day and he makes a great money doing it. He’s happy. So, some people are gonna look at that and say, ‘oh, this garbage man, what a terrible life’. And some people, they enjoy it. So, I do think ultimately as they say if you love what you do, you’ll never work a day in your life. I still love what I do but I still, I feel like it’s still work, I mean, I enjoy it but when I’m away for too long on vacation, I don’t enjoy this much. I rather be working, I really do. I love helping people. I’m really addicted to the hustle and grind of helping people feel better. There’s so many people suffering. For you and I, I think, we’re in a good spot-on loving what we do, but then on the brain chemistry side, I would say that I certainly struggle on. I had gut issues, I certainly struggled with low energy, and partly low motivation and low focus and for a period of time I had trouble reading certain books, like my brain, I just couldn’t process. I had to read, read certain phrases or if someone said a phone number to me, I couldn’t remember just a simple 7-digit phone number. So, I definitely had some brain fog associated with gut issues. And on paper, my endorphins and my dopamine were a bit low. So, I think looking at these mechanisms, I would say Candida, something we could mention too because we know Candida produces acetaldehyde, which is kind of similar to an alcohol molecule and so some people are a little bit drunk on their own Candida overgrowth. So, if somebody that has a lot of sugar cravings or if you have a white coated tongue or if you tested positive for Candida on urine, organic acid, stool testing, we gotta fix that Candida because that’s directly gonna impact your mood, your motivation and your focus. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% Now, I work with patients, right? And I look at a lot of the physiological imbalances. So, let’s say there’s hormonal issues, let’s say it’s a female, it’s estrogen dominance, right, lower progesterone, estrogen out of whack, there’ll be a lot of PMS, mood issues, irritability issues. They’re poor energy because of chronic adrenal stress, they’re not digesting their food well. There’s a lot of mitochondrial imbalances, B-vitamins, CoQ10, L-carnitine. You know, it’s hard to be motivated when you have a lot of these physiological imbalances, because it takes fuel to run this system. So, when I look at patients, I get them motivated to fix these things. You know, it’s hard to get someone motivated to just fix their mitochondria or fix their adrenals. So, I always look at, hey what are these health challenges that you’re having right now. What is preventing you from being, doing, or having in your life right now? Like, what do you want to be doing, being you’re having in your life that you’re not able to because of your energy or because of your chronic digestion, because of your, um, mood issues? What is that? I try to get really clear what those things are because if I can figure out, hey, we’ll it’s affecting me for working out whole day, it’s affecting me, um, being able to spend quality time with my kids, then we can lean on, okay we are gonna make these diet changes, so we can help you get back to spending better time with your kids or so we can have you focusing and doing better at work at closing deal, whatever that is. So, if we figure out the why, then we can lean on that why to get people to make the right changes because it’s the really the why is the essence of it. And that really helps to get people motivated. So, there’s the mindset motivation and there’s the physiological biological biochemical side. So, we wanna work on both. So, when I tell people to make these diet changes, not just making these diet changes, we’re gonna do these so we can help move the needle in this area or that area. So, it’s kind of like using psychological tactics that help keep your patient motivated. It’s also important.   

Evan Brand: Nice. That’s really a good point.  We have some part of our population, where there are just biohacker people who wanna see the numbers, right? They wanna see the numbers get better, and they’re happy enough to see succinic acid go from a 24 down to a 5. And we go okay, great we had major progress, the mitochondria look better on paper. Some of our people, they’re cool with just the numbers, but I agree with you, you gotta bring the emotional piece to. It’s not enough to say, ‘hey, I wanna get your dopamine higher because I want you to have enough energy to get out of bed, make your bed, get dressed, wear something nice, get to the office as you close the deal’. There’s a whole symphony of emotion and the neurotransmitter, the mitochondria, the adrenals, all firing together to make life nice and make life enjoyable. And I just see that the number one leading cause of disability in the U.S. is depression and so, I don’t know, I just feel like there’s so much on top potential, on top productivity out of the population, if we can just simply get the gut improve, get the mitochondria improve, get the neurotransmitter improve. I mean, we could totally transform the country. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I totally agree. I mean, I think simply, out of the gates, it starts with food. So, it starts with high quality food, organic, right, low toxin, eating good proteins, eating good fats. I think being more of a fat burner for most people is super important because we just tend, if you just look at micronutrient trends over the last 56 years, we just consuming more processed carbohydrates and of course the fats are shifted to more, kind of polyunsaturated omega-6 kind of vegetable oil. I think number one out of the gates is we switch to higher quality, better, more stable fats whether it’s on the grass-fed meat, high quality fish or if we do any plants it’s gonna be more on the mannose, right, olive oil, some avocados, those kinds of things. That’s important on the fat and then we try to restrict the lot of the refined grains, refined sugar and that’s some kind of first step and make sure that the quality there. in regards to organic, um, no added hormones, some things like that in the pot. That’s a good start for anyone right there. And then from there, we can look at the different hormonal systems. So, if we have chronically high cortisol, usually that’s more of an acute thing but that can cause anxiety, that can cause irritability. Usually, there’s a tire of wire that kind of thing there. And then of course as we have chronic stress, that adrenal pattern can move more to a lower cortisol stay, and that can cause energy low motivation low mood. So, we wanna really look at the adrenals. They’re part of that stress handling system. So, when we look at things that drive the adrenals its physical, chemical and emotional stress and so we wanna make sure there’s nothing on the emotional side that’s driving a problem, right? Marriage issues, kids issues, financial issues, whatever that is, we have to make sure, we’re at least addressing it and it’s in our forefront, we’re not just kind of putting your head on the sand. Physically we need to make sure we’re not overexercising or under so we’re getting some movement or we’re moving our muscles or we’re not overly sedentary, we’re not doing things that cause us pain, right? So, that’s important. Of the chronically in pain, we see a soft tissue person or a chiropractor to really get to the root of that. And of course, what we really focus on is the underlying hidden chemical stressors, that’s just the food sensitivities, the gut imbalances, the dysbiosis, the leaky gut, the hormonal imbalances, the low thyroid, the adrenal imbalances, the hormonal issues, um, the mitochondrial dysfunction, the toxicity, mold, heavy metals, right? So, this is where we, we come in there, we focus on the chemical stressors that play a major input on the adrenals and we chronically stress the adrenals, adrenaline is also produced by the adrenals to kind of get cortisol mobilize and chronic adrenaline stimulation will pull dopamine because adrenaline is a post cursor essentially to dopamine. So, it goes dopamine 🡪 adrenaline. It’s over chronically sti, in a stressed-out state. Your body will make adrenaline and will pull from dopamine to make adrenaline. And dopamine is important for that I love you feeling, it’s really important for focus, dealing with stress and staying motivated. So, we have to get that, the underlying reason why we pullin’ out that dopamine downstream, we have to get the adrenals fully supported.   

Evan Brand: Yeah. Well said. I’m glad you mentioned heavy metals too. I mean, people and their brain issues could simply be related to mercury toxicity. If you’re someone just walking around and you’ve got a mouthful of amalgam fillings, we know those are estimated 50-ish percent mercury give or take and we know that mercury directly affects dopamine. If you simply just type in, mercury and Parkinson’s or mercury and Alzheimer’s. There’s a lot of links to these toxins and brain neurodegenerative issues. So, if you’re somebody who’s just so poor motivation and it’s more on the extreme side, you might get this amount of amalgam out of your mouth. And for my grandfather, he’s pushing 80-years-old, believe it or not, the local, biological then said he’s already having memory issues, it’s too late. The issue of pulling out the mercury could create more problems. He just said, leave it alone. But if you’re 40, 50, 60, 70 maybe you’re still at that age where you can start working at heavy metal detox, maybe you’re using some sort of binder for the meantime but ultimately, you’ve got to remove the source. So, I mean, if you got heavy metal in your mouth, no matter how much chlorella, charcoal, or clay you take, you’ll still get metal on your mouth. So, that could be a huge issue for your motivation and you gotta resolve it. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% out of the gates. Also, low thyroid can be a thing. Low thyroid can affect mitochondrial function. It can affect mood. It can affect energy. Obviously, thyroid hormones play a major role in your overall metabolism. And if your metabolism is low and slow or more than likely your motivation would be low. So, it’s really good to look at thyroid function. Now, if you go to your conventional doctor that just gonna look at TSH typically and again if your TSH is overly high, let’s say greater than three and a half four. You know, that’s probably be pretty good sign. There’s probably thyroid issues downstream happening with T4 being on the lower side or T3 being, let’s say, below that 3.0 marker in the United States metric. Um, but again, TSH may still be adequate, let’s say below three and you may still have problems with thyroid hormones downstream, with T4, with T3. Maybe there’s an elevated antibodies because there’s some autoimmunity. It’s kind of like smoldering there. So, you really wanna look at running a full thyroid panel and your conventional medical doctor would typically not do it. So, you gotta reach out to kind of more natural, functional medicine first to do it. So, if you guys want to get that kind of testing done, Evan and I, we all do that testing. So, evanbrand.com, justinhealth.com. There’s links there where you can work with us if you want that type of in-depth testing. But low thyroid can be a deal breaker and it can, in most thyroid issues are autoimmune. So, you have to fix the gut. You have to fix the food. You have to fix all of the digestive issues to really get that usually under control. 

Evan Brand: Yeah. Good point bringing up thyroid. So, I’ll bring up another kind of related one which could be anemias, right? If you got low ferritin, for example, you’re gonna be so exhausted if you have some type of anemia that that’s gonna really affect your motivation as well. So, I get kind of annoyed, to be honest with you, when I see people posting these motivational tracks. It is usually some super fit dude, possibly he’s on steroids, he’s flipping a tire and then yelling over the microphone, and it’s like, ‘you gotta get up and you gotta just do it’. And it’s like, you can’t just do it, like, I love that you’re, you know, 28 years old or maybe you’re on growth hormone and you’re flipping this tire and you’re motivated. But that type of talk goes only so far. And from our functional medicine mindset, like I said, I kind of get annoyed, because then you have this woman, maybe 50, 55 and she looks at herself in the mirror and she’s not happy on what she sees. She got insulin resistant, the diet is not dialed in, the guts affected, the neurotransmitters are low, but mitochondria are damaged because she got exposed to, uh, tick bites and molds. This motivational dud ranting over the microphone, he does not have a friggin’ clue about any of these functional strategies. And so, people then think that motivation is just this simple thing that you could just turn on or turn off. If I could just give motivated, I could do this or that. And it’s like, look, it’s way deeper than that, it’s way deeper than this dude just giving you some hoorah jumping the CrossFit class. And that’s why, that’s all this day. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I’m not a big fan of RAW, RAW stuff because it ignores physiology. I mean, I think there’s the RAW, RAW stuff can be helpful if it shifts your mindset. But mindset cannot be overcome physiology in the long run. It’s like people gonna, uh, an Anthony Robbins, I think Tony Robbins is great, he has a lot of strategy mindset stuff but you come out of this event so motivated. And it’s like, now what, right? It’s kind of like you’re driving your car, right, your old, used car, nothing’s wrong with it but your own E. Some guy comes up next to you and in like a Ferrari and it’s like, ‘man, you just got hit the back gas pillar, go’. And it’s like he hits the gas pillar, he’s out of sight and you’re like, ‘yeah, I don’t have fuel in my car and I kind of force cylinder under horsepower car, yeah I can’t do it. So, the first thing you gotta do metaphorically is you have to fill your tank of a gas. Get the car, get the gas in the tanks if you have fuel. And overtime, upgrade your car, upgrade your health, right? And we start with food quality, we start with good fats and proteins, we start with addressing glycemic issues, not overdoing or removing the processed sugar and the grain, dialing in the carbs on what you need, sleeping better. That’s like trading in your car at the car dealership, right? Literally, just by doing that, you’re starting to upgrade internally and of course from there we can always go down the functional medicine path and look at these hormone systems, adrenals, thyroid, gut function, mitochondrial issues. But we can at least upgrade the car and the fuel by making these simple lifestyle choices that are free and then from that, that gives you more motivation, now you have more energy, now your brain is clearer, so now you can, you know, be clearer on what your goals are. You can get very motivated, you can set timelines to your goals, right. What’s the difference between a goal and a dream? A goal has essentially a dream with an endpoint, a timeline on it, right. I’m gonna achieve this point, right? Take your dreams, make it your goal by putting an aid on it and some action items to go on it. And that takes energy and focus. And if your brain is foggy and overly tired, that’s gonna be problematic. So, I think, just work on those simple things and then once you get a little more motivation there then what’s next. And so, the things that I looked at when people are stressed and depleted, brain inflammation plays a major role with low motivation, so if we can cut out the foods, if we can add in B-vitamins, B6, magnesium, good health omega-3 fatty acids, that’s gonna help with the brain inflammation. That’s gonna help with the neurotransmitters. And then from there, we’re gonna look deeper at the box. This could be SIBO, bacterial overgrowth, H. pylori, parasites and getting the gut really cleaned out is gonna help shell out a lot of the brain inflammation because inflammation is bidirectional. Inflammation in the body can make its way to the gut and create a problem. Inflammation in the gut can make its way out of the gut into the bloodstream by leaky gut permeability causing inflammation in the brain. 


Evan Brand: Yeah. Well said. We could start to bring in some of those vitamins, like the omegas, we can bring in some phosphatidylserine or phosphatidylcholine, we can bring as you mentioned the B-vitamins, maybe some Ginkgo, possibly nootropics like the racetam family, pretty common phenylpiracetam or others oxiracetam. A lot of nootropics out there that you could use, but there’s so many people like in the that they’re taking these different nootropics but they’re not addressing anything in regards to their gut or anything, whether hormones. So, I think it’s… 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I have a product in my line could, Dopa Replete Plus which has tyrosine and will have an actual pure L-dopa. That’s a good one. Or someone’s coming out of the gates, I would just even just be using pure tyrosine, pure L-tyrosine with some high-quality B-vitamins can be really helpful because you need the B-vitamins as a cofactor to really help convert to some of these neurotransmitters, some of these amino acids to become the actual neurotransmitters. 

Evan Brand: Yeah. You can feel it pretty quick. I mean, that’s the cool thing about amino acids, is that you mentioned. A lot of times, you know, when we pitch people our services, we’re like hey, sign up, you know, give us a call evanbrand.com, justinhealth.com. People haven’t, they haven’t enough motivation to be miserable to do that. Sometimes, I don’t even think about people, they know they want to help but I think they haven’t enough motivation to even call us and reach out to us. So, if you’re one of those people, we’re here but, in the meantime, yeah, maybe you use a little bit of tyrosine. It gets you motivated enough to even reach out to get further health because I think a lot of people get overwhelmed at what’s gonna entail in regards to diet changes. Like, oh, that’s overwhelming, you’re gonna make me cut this out, lifestyle changes, you’re gonna make me cut that out, like oh my God or now I gotta go to bed at 9’oclock, you know, that’s too hard. So, we used this little tool, this functional medicine tool to help motivate people to get them through the protocol. Because you and I could design a perfect protocol, mitochondrial support. We’ve got the gut dialed in. We’ve got the detox, the binders. We got the liver, the gallbladder, the adrenals. It’s all taken care of. But, it’s only if somebody follows through so then you get to the part of compliance which we could do part 2 on that of you want. Like, how do you stay on track but making the plan and getting the labs is the first step and getting the people to follow through is the second one. I think progress ultimately gets people going, because they’ll feel how much better they are but somehow, so, what we’ll use somebody’s brain nutrients just to get them off to get through and follow through.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. From a mindset perspective, it’s kind of like if you have pushed a car before right. You push the car. The hardest thing we’re pushing a car is overcoming the initial inertia of the car, from not moving to moving, right? That’s the hardest part. And so, when we’re dealing with people’s health inertia, it is just getting a couple of habits of moving in the direction that allows the car to start moving. Now, the amount of energy you need to put into that car to keep it moving is far less, right? It’s far less because you overcome the initial inertia of it being stock to moving. That’s kind of health is. You kind of make like a couple of small changes now’s the ball’s rolling and then now you can add, you know, you just can sleep for a little bit, add a little movement in there, and a couple of supplements and now we have a lot more now it becomes even easier to keep that going. And then of course, the key is now, okay, all the energy going into it was moving to the four steps of learning right. It’s unconscious incompetence, you don’t know what you don’t know. Now, you’re consciously incompetence, you know what you don’t know, you’re at least aware of these things. And then you go from step 2 to step 3 you’re consciously competent, someone’s helping you but there’s a lot of energy to keep doing the right things and then ideally you start to move into the level of unconscious competence where it’s automatic, right? It’s like someone who drives a standard transmission, everyone who’s done that they know, like, they’re starting on doing clutch, shift, what, their heads going down looking at the gearbox to stir up. It’s tough, right? But then eventually it’s like, clutch, shift, 1,2, 3, right? It’s easy, downshifting no problem. You don’t have to worry about it, it’s like you’re in automatic transmission because you get the whole thing. So, that’s kind of, well, where habits are, you just start with the ones that really bears the most fruit and then you go up from there. So, that’s kind of kind of look at out of the gates.     

Evan Brand: Well, look, you just did a live on camera because you’re like oh, we’re talking about in that booby. Whip up a capsule, and then boom you pop your aminos just like that. That’s kind of how I am too with protocol, I mean I’ll just feel how I am; I need a little bit of this, a little bit of that. And I’m just consciously making these micro calculations throughout the day. Oh, little low heat, op stressful day, hit the adrenals a little harder.  We’re constantly making these twigs, it’s just a really good place to be. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep. I’m gonna go hit some push-ups and some kettlebells, wings, and a little bit of rowing here in a minute. And I’m gonna, um, you know, use some. So, I just try, you know, surround myself with good tools that I could plug into throughout the day to keep that momentum going and then, you know, foundational things, food, water, sleep. So just make sure you, and then of course you can plug in some movement along there right. Those are your three to four big check marks that you gotta hit during the day. And as you start getting that, you can build up from there and that gets you that foundation you need.  

Evan Brand: Yeah. Sleep is huge. So, we’d done a podcast on that but we’re always happy to do more. So, we’re wrapping out for now though. People can reach out if they need. We work around the world via facetime, uh, zoom, skype, you know, phone. We can do. We send labs everywhere and you can reach out to Dr. J at justinhealth.com and you can reach out to me, evanbrand.com and we’re happy to help. And we’ll look at some of these things and we’ll help investigate what could be going on, why’re you struggling. We know that you wanna get that dream business that dream goal, but you gotta make that a reality by optimizing these systems. So, that’s exactly what we do on ourselves on a day-to-day basis. Just literally just boost these neurotransmitters as we’re talking here. So, once you get these tools and place, you’re just gonna be driving, you can take over the world if that’s what you want.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% evanbrand.com, justinhealth.com. We’ll put links and recommendations for different things that we talked about product wise in the description of the video. Evan, awesome chat with you as always, my friend. We’ll talk soon.

Evan Brand: You too man. Take care. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Evan and I, we’ll go now. Bye-bye.

Evan Brand: Bye-bye. 




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Audio Podcast:



The Top 5 Anti-Aging Techniques to Age Gracefully | Podcast #342

Hey guys! In this video, Dr. J and Evan discuss the factors that affect the aging process. They are more straightforward—and less invasive—ways to look younger than mainstream or conventional ways. Dr. J suggests incorporating a few of these habits into your daily routine that won’t just leave you fresh-looking and it’ll boost your overall energy. Watch the video to learn how. Of all the places on your body, your gut is silently receiving different food that can cause the entire aging process. That includes standard precautions such as maintaining a well-balanced diet rich in good fats. But there are also quite a few ways that you may be aging your body without knowing it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

In this episode, we cover:

3:00:   Inflammation

7:21:   Insulin Resistance and blood glucose

16:59:  Sleep in the aging process

27:46:  Fasting Techniques

30:26:  Importance of movement and exercise

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Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And we are Live! It’s Dr. J here in the house with Evan Brand. Today we’re gonna be chatting about natural strategies to help detoxify round ups or glyphosate. Really excited to be chatting with Evan today. Evan, how are you doing today man?

Evan Brand: Doing really well! This is a super important topic.You sea many many lawsuit around the country happen and bayer who bought monsato. They’re really trying to get out of it. I’ve seen several, I’m no law expert but I’ve seen several stories how basically they’re trying to just, throw one lump sum out there for all the cases, as there are thousand and thousand of cases coming at them, because of different cancers like non-hodgkin’s lymphoma that people are claiming that has been linked to their glyphosate exposure. Whether it was like the school grounds worker who was a famous story  or other people. They’re really coming at them hard and they’re really really trying to weasel this way out of it and then I saw news just uh, last week actually, that glyphosate is actually going to be phased. I don’t know if you saw this but it said it’s going to be phased out by 2023. So I sent this new article over to Stephanie Synep who I’ve interviewed several times about glyphosate, and she goes “yeah, I saw this. They’re probably just going to come out with another slightly different molecule that’s just as toxic”. So she didn’t think it was that exciting news.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting! Yeah, I mean, I wouldn’t be surprised. It’s kind of like a lot of the medication they have many me’s for it right. Something they can re-patent, um, almost the same molecular structure so they know it’s going to work based on the previous medication or compound but they don’t really have to do too much RND on it because, it’s so close to where it was. So yeah, I get that maybe, probably, the same toxicity profile too. So that makes sense, hopefully that’s not going to be the case but either way, we have a lot of toxins in our environment and roundup’s just one that we have a lot of other pesticides, herbicides, or genocides that are out there. Obviously, a lot of potential chemicals in the water, air, and so roundup or we can kind of put roundup of pesticides – all in the same category, I think that’s pretty fair . So you know first thing is, try to mitigate the use of them on your property, I mean, I use a little bit of pesticides in a spot treating, man. Are we trying to avoid anything blanketed or anything just, you know, blanketed across the board, and you know, we don’t really play out in the grass that much, I mean so if your kids are rolling around out in the grass definitely pay extra money and have those weeds picked up by hand. I think that’s a better way to do it but every now and then, there may be a necessity to spot treat stuff but do your best to avoid that especially if your kids are playing near glass like that, or just have a grass in your yard that you know, this is the play area this where the kids go. We put a nice little rock pit in our backyard just because we know that the rock pit’s going to be perfect right? Put some like, soft help you know, small pebbles in there, um, that are you, um, still fun to play in and they have a digger pit and all that so just try to do your best if you have kids that are young that are playing; mitigate any playing on areas that have any pesticides at all; try to mitigate the use of them, 100 percent and try to have safe, safe spaces in your yard that, you know are perfectly clean.

Evan Brand: There is an alternative to roundup. I’m trying to figure out what it was the moms across America did and article on it-I’m trying to fin it here-it was like a non-toxic weed control. I don’t care about weeds; my grass looks cool and it’s got clover. We’ve got many other different species of plants besides just grass. I mean, I think it’s a myth and it’s dumb you have all these neighborhoods where they think you got to have the grass looking perfect, and grass is just like another version of monoculture. It’s like if you go and walk through my yard, you’re going to see so many different types of plants so I just don’t care. I think people have been brainwashed by the mainstream industry. Even our neighbor we’ve seen you know just out in flip-flops, spraying the glyphosate on their weeds. It’s like who said dandelions are bad? Like, that’s the first food for bee so for me, I’d rather see the field full of dandelions. I guess it’s personal preference but I kind of like it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. It just depends. You know, the biggest problem with weeds in relationship to grass as they grow like, three times the speed, so if you haven’t cut your lawn for a week your grass in this long and your weeds are this long, right? So you missed the nice homogeneous, kind of, clean lawn. I’m a big long guy, I like a nice, clean, homogeneous lawn so I’ll walk out there, you know, halfway through the week if I see any weeds popping up; it’s easy because they grow twice the speed, it’s grass, and I’ll just go and take five minutes, and I’ll just pull my hand. You know, I’m like I  like a really nice pretty front lawn. So I’ll go there spend 5-10 minutes a week walking around, pulling by hand, just to mitigate the chemical usage but. First thing is, decrease the chemical usage, decrease the chemical dependency out of the gates. I guess that’s the easiest first step.

Evan Brand: So here’s one. So it’s called, there’s one called Dr. Kirchner natural grass and weed killer. I’m gonna to try to look it up, see what the ingredients. There’s another one, another competitor to it called, Green Gobler. And that’s a 20% vinegar weeding grass killer. And this thing’s got crazy high reviews of it. This Dr. Kirchner k-I-r-c-h-n-e-r natural weed killer . This is just, so it’s four percent sodium chloride, interesting. And they say this ocean water-based product is made for non-selective control of broad-leaf weeds and wheat grasses results in hours. So there you go, I mean it sounds like they’re just using like, concentrated ocean water, they’ve got thousands of five-star reviews on people, people on Amazon are posting their reviews of them in their garden after spraying this stuff and it literally kills it all. This lady said here that it’s magical and safe. So there you go!

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So we’ll have to put some links down below. So you have what, so what are those two products? Those ones that was an apple cider vinegar-based, what else?

Evan Brand: Yeah, and then you got this other one that’s salt water, it’s literally like, four percent ocean water concentrate, and then you have another one called, Natural Armor which is a 30 percent vinegar concentrate.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay.

Evan Brand: My wife even saw one at Target recently. She saw like an organic herbicide. I had a picture of it, I don’t know if I could find it on my phone or not but, she sent me a picture the other day. She said there’s no excuse for people using glyphosate; I said I know, I know, and then she sent me that picture-let me see if I can find it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Good. That’s good. I mean glyphosate, what is does is, it it basically is a chelator, it pulls away all the minerals from the soil, and so it decreases the minerals getting up into the plant which then kill it. And so, if you’re using it even worse on food you’re eating, It’s it’s way worse. Because now you’re destroying the quality of the topsoil, you’re destroying the minerals in that soil, and we know that soil requires minerals so that plant can, um, let’s just say express it you know, express it’s full nutritional potential if you will. So if we have nutritionally deficient soil, like manganese for instance, you know, vegetables are going to have less vitamin C in it, right? So we know the minerals have a major role  and they and the quality of that soil, plays a major role in the kind of nutrientsthat plants will produce. So you’re gonna have less nutrition in soil where there’s a bunch of roundup that’s chelated out a lot of those minerals.

Evan Brand: Yeah. I was gonna say, let’s hit on the mechanism . So that’s definitely a big important one, and then the other one that you and I test for in the gut is, we’re seeing the glyphosates damaging the beneficial bacteria in the gut. And this is happening at even PBB – parts per billion levels. So once you kill off the beneficial bacteria in the gut, now you see the overgrowth of clostridium, and there’s a famous chart-I know you’ve seen it before and hopefully others have seen it. But you could just look it up, type in glyphosate autism chart, and you can see the correlation where glyphosate skyrockets along with autism rates, and I’ve seen many many autistic children and we test their glyphosate levels and they’re always high. So, this is not saying causation, but this is in correlation; and William Shaw, Bill Shaw-he’s a guy at great plains lab that we, that we use for these toxic chemical tests. You know, he wrote a great paper on this. He had a paper published about the mechanism . Essentially, it was like an order of operations. It was the glyphosate, as you mentioned, will cause nutrient deficiencies but then damages good bacteria. Bad bacteria like clostridium overgrowth. Now you’ve got these organic acids that go high which mess up an enzyme that breaks down dopamine, now you’ve got excessive dopamine, now you’ve got brain toxicity and the you damage the mitochondria. So it’s a long, a long route there but, this is directly damaging mitochondria which is certainly linked to chronic fatigue and other issues so, when we’re looking at someone’s picture of health, and we see they’ve got a major overload of pesticides, and they’re fatigued, we’re not gonna say, “Hey! This is you number one smoking gun of fatigue” but, it’s certainly a big peace of the puzzle; and I can tell you personally but also clinically when we use nutrients which we’ll get into to detox these pesticides-we see that energy levels go up; and you mentioned exposure, so also, you got to consider where you live too. So even if you’re having Joe Bob next door spray, that might not be as big of a deal as more agricultural areas which is you know, partially where I am which I don’t like. There’s a corn and soybean around here. This is just part of the country where I, where this happens and there’s papers on even one mile of pesticide drift. So the question is…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Far more worried about you because, just the load, you know, if you look at the, just the load coming through.

Evan Brand: Oh, yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh, and your area is just got to be, you know, orders of magnitude. 10, 100x more than just a general uh, you know, residential person that’s just trying to knock down weeds a little bit.

Evan Brand: Totally. Which, which we’re aware of. We’re working on it and we’ve got, we’ve got an exit, so we’re working on it but, yeah. Luckily, we’ve been doing a lot of things. Are you ready to talk about some of the solutions? Obviously, avoidance, external exposure, trying to stay away from it, watching out for like, playgrounds. You know, a lot of playgrounds, they’re too lazy to pull the weeds so they’re just going to spray it so you’ll see often signs at playgrounds like, “watch out!”, and you can tell that they’ve sprayed on the mulch where the kids are playing, and then you may say, “Well, oh! We’ll just go to a rubber playground”, where you have all those chopped up tires but, those are really toxic too. We mentioned those rubber chemicals on the chemical profile for children too. I had a child, a young child actually, was a client who was diagnosed with a rare type of cancer, and we looked at the levels of 1-3 butadiene and maybe some other chemicals; and these are all from synthetic rubber, and this kid was like a stup, a superstar soccer player. He was playing indoors, like 24/7. This kid was these fake rubber mats and his levels were like a hundred x higher than 95th percentile and that was a known carcinogen so we can’t say the rubber caused it but, man, it was certainly a big smoking gun in this case.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: What’s the chemical name?

Evan Brand: It’s so, it’s 1-3 butadiene. It’s on the great plains chemical report. It just says using the production. Yeah, just as used in the production of synthetic rubber.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. So it’s definitely possible, right? So, I mean, out of the gates, the first thing is, we look at our food. Right? First this is make sure you food’s organic because you’re going to have major exposure if you’re taking things in, internally. Right? Things on the outside of the world like yeah, if you’re touching it, right? That’s going to be a problem so one try not to use it at your property or if you do you know, like you know, we try to use it more like glyphosate but kind of more natural version in the front yard spot treated. But in the backyard or in the play any area where we know that kids actually play. Like that’s just going to be off-limits. We try to make sure it’s super clean and good there; and then number two is um, you know, air is going to move all this stuff around. So even if you know you yard’s clean, your neighbors may not be clean. So you got to make sure air filtration in your home is dialed in so you can mitigate it potentially being in the home and breathing it in constantly. So air filters in the home, water filer because there’s also the worry about it getting off into the water table, and if we have a well or anything else, very concerning so you want to make sure good quality water filtration and then like I mentioned earlier-organic food and try to mitigate it’s usage around your property, or try to choose natural sources.

Evan Brand: Yeah. I’m glad you mentioned the water too because that’s important. Believe it or not, even glyphosate’s being found in rain water which is crazy. It’s literally raining down glyohosate because it’s evaporating from various farms and agricultural than it’s moving through the wind currents and then getting rained down on people, and you may say, “Oh well, that’s got to be such a trace amount it doesn’t matter. Well that’s the thing, we’re finding that these, these compounds are active against the beneficial bacteria in your gut at these per billion levels. So you really can’t brush it off. People will try to brush it off but, it’s the small levels, and it’s the synergistic effects, right? So you’ve got a little bot of that and then you’ve got it from your diet. Plus you’ve got it from your water supply, plus you’re getting rained on in your organic garden. This adds up overtime and you and I see bacterial overgrowth everyday, all day; and we know that this is certainly linked to the disruption of the gut-these chemicals. So it’s too important to ignore the air filters is a tough one. I asked Stephanie Synep about that I said, “Hey! What is the actual size of glyphosate? I can’t find it. I’m trying to figure out because you’ll see air purifiers talk about a one micron or a three micron filtration, and she said “Oh, no. There’s no way you’ll be able to filter it. It’s too small so that’s what she said bit, I can’t find anything about the size of it. I’ve asked a couple of companies about is and they say, “Oh, yeah. NO problem. Our air filter will take care of it”, and another company said, “Oh, yeah. Our air filter should destroy the molecule” but, I don’t know how you would yest that. You’d have to like, I don’t know; Have somebody spray a bottle of glyphosate into a room and then run the purifier and see what happens but, it’s removed so many other things that it’s a non-negotiable us, and I know you do the same like, air purifier…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. It’s moving a lot. I mean, you know, we like the Austin Air just because they have the 30 pounds of activated charcoal and zeolite, and those binders, you know, would have a positive effects, binding up these things and so it’s definitely going to decrease the load for sure. If it’s blowing through a hepa filter and also  through the 30 pounds of zeolite and activated charcoal. It’s going to have mitigating effects. It’s going to be better off, you know, on when it’s out than, than before, right? So I think it’s still a good thing to have to what degree, um, I don’t know but, in general, it’s good to have, of course the water is a big one. So I try to have all my water that I drink personally-reverse osmosis, so we have a whole house filter that’s carbon-based that filter a lot, and then I have a under the counter filter where I drink my water, and like you know, make smoothies from, or make my coffee from, or use for cooking like that’s all RO. And so we have a little mineral support supplement that will add minerals back in. Because the biggest problem with RO water is the depletion of minerals but, um, I’d rather always have the water cleaner and then add minerals back. It’s always easier to add minerals back than take toxins out.

Evan Brand: Right. Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Always easier.

Evan Brand: For sure, for sure. I mean, yeah…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So like, Oh my God! The minerals In the water. There’s no minerals. Like yeah, but there’s no toxins are way less, so now I’m okay with way less toxins and just being able to add a good trace mineral support back into the water.

Evan Brand: Yep! Yeah, and people…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And you can do like, a redmond. You can do like a redmon’s real salt, you could trace mineral support with some extra potassium and magnesium-all that’s fine.

Evan Brand:  I’ll do some of the sea water too. Like some of the sea water like, quinton and there’s a couple other professional brands we use of sea water, that stuff. I tell you, I was kind of skeptical. I’m like how is adding like, basically salt water going to help me bit, it sure did. I mean, it definitely is like a thirst quencher. So it’s pretty remarkable the difference.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, yourself, your cells need uh, they run on a sodium-potassium pump. There’s this gradient of minerals on wither side of the cell. I think it’s what sodium, sodium is on the outside, potassium’s in. It does a little switcheroo. Sodium goes in, potassium goes out, and you need that gradient to happen for the cells to communicate properly. So it you’re low in sodium or potassium, that sodium potassium pump is not going to work optimally.

Evan Brand: you can feel it. I’m telling you. It’s, it’s significant. All right. Let’s hit on some of like, the detox strategies if you’re ready. I think the easy one…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So the first thing is all the lifestyle stuff. That’s foundationthat we stack up. So easiest thing out of the gate is going to be glutathione. So glutathione, whether it’s s acetyl, lyposomal, reduce, whether we do, whether we’re making it with all the precursors like, NAC, ALA, glycine, collagen, right? All these things are going to be really important to help make your master antioxidant out of the gates-that’s probably the big one first.

Evan Brand: Yeah, glycine’s huge, and there’s actually some papers just on glycine by itself in isolation helping with glyphosate which is awesome. So I actually take glycine before bed. It really helps sleep too. So that’s another cool benefit but…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, you can mix collagen, peptides, like I use my TrueCollagen with a little bit of magnesium powder before bed. That knocks it right out and glycine’s helpful with other toxins like strippers like xylene and things like that. It will, it will detoxify xylene-thses kind of chemicals too. So glycine is excellent, and then of course um, you know, roundup’s very destructive on the gut and so if you’re doing glycine, it’s very helpful to kind of heal the enterocytes and repair those too.

Evan Brand: Yeah. I would say probiotics are somewhere on the list now. I don’t know in terms of priority and the mechanism is the same as it is for mycotoxins. There’s some cool research coming out about probiotics actually being able to convert toxins into less toxic forms, and then that makes them more water-soluble, and able to excreted from the body. So there’s some cool mechanism involved with probiotics and of course, if you’re working with a practitioner like us, we’re going to coach you through when and how, and what we’re going to use. But that another cool piece of the puzzle. I’d say my next one is going to be micronized chlorella. There’s a couple professional that we use of it, and this is better than the broken cell wall chlorella because, it’s smaller molecules, and then that’s going to allow better transfer across the blood-brain barrier to get some of these heavy metals out. So we’ll actually use some products that are basically designed for heavy metals but, we’ll use them off-label for like mold and chemical detox.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and so like I have a heavy meal clear product that has some of the, some of the chlorella in there. It also has some of the sodium alginate, and then also some of the modified citrus pectin. These are really good binders that will help with metals and they’ll also help with uh, pesticides too which are great, and then, um, some of the research you’re talking about probiotics actually converting some of the mole toxins and also, they also have an effect binding them too. It’s that what you’re saying too?

Evan Brand: Yeah. I know it’s a conversion. I don’t know if it’s actually binding but, there’s a lot of like great planes they’re doing a lot of work on like promoting the idea of probiotics being like the universal mold detoxifier now – even better higher rated that charcoal for example, which is crazy .

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s why we always talk about dealing with the gut and working on the gut before we push any crazy detox because we know, the gut’s so important. It’s like a lot of these functional medicine principles are like you know, they’ve tried and true but, if you look at the science, like you find more little nitty-gritty within the science of what’s happening, why that is the case like we just kind of know clinically, you get better results doing it so we kind of go that way, and then we just see more data kind of just supporting that hypothesis.

Evan Brand: It’s cool. Yeah, it’s fun because you and I have been basically using the methods we use for years, and then new stuff comes out that’s like, “Oh, cool!” Well, we were doing that already; now we know that it was actually doing other things that we needed it to do for. It’s like get rid of toxins. So that’s, so that’s awesome. How about sauna too? I mean, sweating has been proven to help excrete so many things. I’ll tell you, you know, I had a lady that was in her 70s. We ran a chemical profile test on her. This lady’s test was so clean, I was almost in disbelief because I’ve seen 5, 6 year-old children that are just off the charts with chemicals, and then we have this lady in her 70’s who you think just lived through all sort of different eras of toxicity. Man, I tell you, her chemical tests were as clean as a whistle. I said, “What are you doing?’, and she was in a sauna three to four times a week for half an hour. I said “Wow!”, I said, ”You are living proof that the sauna works and that sweating is an incredible detox pathway.”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I see a lot of women, too. Like “Oh, man! I’m pregnant.Like, what’s the best way to detoxify when I’m pregnant?” I’m like, well number one, we don’t want to really push any detoxification. The only thing I may gently recommend is maybe a little bit of a, kind of a natural fiber, eating organic, drinking lots of water, and maybe a little bit of an infrared sauna. But you have to shower right afterwards just because you don’t want to move toxins to the skin, and then have them reabsorb back in. So you want to make sure you use a good 10 sulfur soap, break up that film of toxin on your skin so it flushes off your skin. So would you agree that you know, potentially doing a little bit of sauna therapy as long as you’re not depleting yourself, dehydrated, is probably a safe, probably one of the more safer, gentle ways to detoxify if you are pregnant?

Evan Brand: I guess it depends on temperature. Like I’m not going to put a lady in like, a hundred and eighty, like a hot rock one.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: I think an Infrared one…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It can be infrared were it’s lower temperature.

Evan Brand: Yeah. I think if you’re probably at like a 125 degrees or something. That’s somewhat natural that you could experience on the planet. I think would be no problem; the chlorella should be no problem, too. You know, we’ve actually…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Stays in the gut. It stays in the gut. You’re probably okay, I mean, chlorella, some kind of a gentle, more food-based binder is probably okay. I mean, if you’re gonna do some kind of a sauna and you’re pregnant, one, make sure you’re hydrated, make sure you have minerals. Start with like, three or four, or five minutes, and just kind of add like a minute of two every time so you don’t overdue. I always rather know you go at a lower level where you’re confident- you can handle it, and gently nudge it up, and just make sure you shower right afterwards. It’s probably the only detoxification means that I would really push outside of a gentle binder. Uh, that’s food-based for my pregnant females. Back on that, would you agree?

Evan Brand: I would say, I, I don’t see a problem with charcoal and chlorella during pregnancy because, you have to kind of weigh the pros and the cons, right? And we know that for example, these toxins go through the placenta. We know they go through breast milk, so here you are, willingly letting this toxins go through the unborn baby, when you could simply  use a gentle binder to try to mitigate some of that or even detox; that there’s actually been crazy stuff being done behind the scenes. I won’t go into too much details because I don’t think it’s published yet but, showing that these micronized chlorella molecules can literally detox the baby before the baby’s even born. So you can actually have a baby come out cleaner than it would’ve been, chemical wise, by being detoxed throughout the pregnancy by the transfer of the chlorella from mom to baby; and then of course, once the baby’s born, through the breast milk, also there is some transfer of chlorella. So there’s some crazy, crazy stuff coming out on that but, too soon to say exactly.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool. I like that. So, yeah. We have our binders, we like the binders, and again, talk to your, your OB if you’re a person that wants to look into that. When you’re pregnant, just be careful. I always recommend do all this stuff before but, if you waited and you have issues, and you got to do it now, talk to your OB, talk to your functional medicine doc before you ever do that. We typically don’t push any hard detoxification when uh, patients are pregnant just because we’re mobilizing a lot of toxins unless, we do it very very gentle-way like we mentioned before. Uh, outside of that, I would say we talked about all the big binders of water filtration. We’ll put some links down below with some of the RO and whole house activated charcoal, carbon-based filters that I personally use and Evan uses. We’ll put some recommended links that you guys have that. That’s going to be really important. I’d say air, water, organic food-those are going to be big, and then we can set them in on top of that. So uh, in my line I use heavy metal clear, my detox aminos that have calcium gluconate, and all the sulfur aminos, and reduced glutathione. Evan has some similar glutathione, and sulfur, and mineral-based products that are mineral, that are like our binders, like fulvic minerals or things that help bind up some of this things, too. So we’ll put some links down below if you want some recommended products that we personally use, and we’re kind of gave you some of the big mechanism, right? One’s binding, right? You’re binding some of it up, and the other one is you’re working on enhancing your own detoxification pathways, so they can excrete them. And then of course, low-hanging fruit, right? The solution to pollution dilution. You take any toxins, you hydrate well enough, good clean water and minerals, the more you hydrate that mineral, that toxin becomes less potent, the more it’s diluted. So that’s, it’s low hanging fruit. It’s easy to forget but, solution to pollution is dilution.

Evan Brand: Cheers! Yeah, and this is real stuff. I mean, we’ve seen many, many, I mean, hundreds of this point; before and after case studies of measuring these chemicals. It’s absolutely remarkable what can be done. So if you’re just like, “Oh, toxins are bad.”, and that’s all you get from this podcast, no. Remember that goes deeper than this. We’re talking the way you perform in terms of your mitochondreal function, your energy levels, the health of your gut. Whether you have bacterial overgrowth which then leads to bloating, and burping, and gas, and issues with your joints and potential autoimmune issues because now you’ve got chlostridium overgrowth. So if you hear this, all you think is” toxins are bad, I need to detox.”, no. Remember, this goes into every body system. This goes into adrenals, mitochondria, liver, gallbladder; I mean, the whole system is involved so don’t just blow this thing off. I still see people-I won’t name her but, there was a lady I knew from my, my town. Now she’s super big and she’s got a supplement company that’s like all these vitamin shop stores and everywhere, and she did a Q&A, and I mean this lady is a multi-millionaire, and people asked her, “Do you eat organic?”, and she said “No. I think it’s a waste of time.” It’s like you’re just, you’re just, uh, what’s the word? Not dumb, that’s the rude word. Uh…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Ignorant.

Evan Brand: Ignorant. She’s ignorant. Yeah, that’s the word. She doesn’t know what that means. Like how important that truly is and how that’s changing everything from her offspring, and the health of her babies to her own health. So to people out there, if you’ve got the means to do it, which hopefully everyone can, I can see people have that brand new iphones but then they say they don’t have the extra dollar to buy the organic strawberries. You got to make thins thing a priority or you’ll see a brand new Mercedes SUV in the McDonald’s parking lot, like you’ve got to make organic a priority.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Absolutely. So you git to make it a priority. It’s shift that for sure, and again, people’s say organic’s a fad. Well, again, before 1950, everything was organic, right? That’s where the pesticide kind of fertilizer industry came kind of post-World War II, and so, everything was organic before that point. And again, like first thing I recommend in the order of priorities is, make sure your meat are organic and pasture fed first, okay that’s the first order of, um, let’s just say investment. The second thing is, eat from the clean 15-these are pesticides that have, these are foods that have a pesticide load; and then, avoid the dirty dozen. That’s kind of environmental working group thing. So we’ll put a link for the clean and the dirty dozen; and then from there, you can start getting organic vegetables that are frozen; that’s cheaper. And then of course, start to buy them, you know, more fresh and organic across the board but, that’s kind of the progression. So just try to at least start with the meats because the meats hold the most toxins, and so fats are in the toxins. So you want to start with meats first, and then you can work on going to clean 15, avoid dirty dozen, frozen organic, and then full fresh on organic. That’s kind of the algorithm there. Anything you want to say about that Evan?

Evan Brand: Yeah, local too. I mean, if you can get local beef too, where it hadn’t traveled thousands of miles from Brazil, and they didn’t cut down the rain forest to get that grass fed beef, then I would totally do that. I get my meat from 15 minutes down the road. It’s just hundreds, and hundreds of acres of beautiful chemical-free pastures. So I feel really good about it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s great! I love it. Well, very good. So out of the gates here also, one last thing, if you don’t have good gallbladder function, or good digestion, right? You’re constipated, you’re not pooping everyday, you’re having a hard time digesting food, not breaking fat down or protein adequately, your stools are floating, excessive skid marks streaks-those kind of things that means you’re not breaking down fat, you’re not breaking down protein adequately, you’re not moving toxins through your bowels adequately, you’re gonna be reabsorbing that, you’re gonna, you’re not gonna have good gallbladder flow to push that out in the stool. So you’re potentially reabsorbing or not eliminating toxins via your digestive tract. And so if we have digestive issues, we got to have some stool testing, we got to fix whatever is going on from a microbial imbalance or gut infection in the intestines. That’s really important. Got to work on live, gallbladder, and making sure enzymes and acids are adequate to break everything down.

Evan Brand: Yep! Good call. And if you need help, you want to get some of this testing done, investigate your gut, look into your chemical toxicity, you can reach out to Dr. J or myself. This website is justinhealth.com if you need to reach out, it worked worldwide (facetime, phone, skype) any way you need to connect there. So justinhealth.com, and for me Evan, it’s evanbrand.com. We look forward to helping you. Also reach out. We offer intro calls too! You can chat with us and figure out exactly what’s going on, symptom wise, we’ll see if you’re good fit for care, and look forward to helping you out.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. We’re here for you all, guys. Awesome! And if you enjoyed it, thumbs up, comments down below, and um, we’re here! Justinhealth.com, evanbrand.com, and write us a review too! We appreciate it.




Audio Podcast:


Recommended products:


Organic Grass Fed Meat

Air Doctor Air Purifier

Austin Air Health Mate Plus

Magnesium Supreme

Top 5 Ongoing Immune Supports | Podcast #341

Your first line of defense is to select a healthy lifestyle. Following general good-health guidelines is the best step you can take toward naturally keeping your immune system working correctly. Every part of the body, plus the immune system, functions better when protected from environmental strikes and bolstered by healthy-living strategies such as taking vitamins and some natural herbs that are evidence-based and fit you.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

In this episode, we cover:

0:35   Benefits of Glutathione and NAC

7:31    Vitamin D Levels

9:14    Zinc and Quercetin

11:11   Vitamin C as an antioxidant

13:38  Herbal Compounds

15:41  Medicinal Mushrooms and Herbs;

This image has an empty alt attribute; its file name is itune-1.png


Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey, guys! It’s Dr. Dr. Justin Marchegiani here today. I’m with Evan Brand and we’re going to talk about the top five ongoing immune supports. These are nutrient and or herbal compounds that we use to our patients to support a good, healthy, strong immune system. It’s obviously a couple of different areas and avenues we may use these preventively and as well as acute onset issues. So we’ll kind of talk about our experience clinically and how we use these in our practice. Excited. Evan, how are you doing today, man?

Evan Brand: Awesome! Doing really great and ready to dive in. So it’s going to start out with maybe that most important nutrient of all time, and certainly the most important nutrient for the past one to two years which is glutathione. And you and I did a podcast early on, I think it was last spring, all about glutathione and how we use oral acetylated glutathione. We’ll use liposomal glutathione, we’ll even used nebulized glutathione, and it’s been an absolute game changer  for so many people. I would even go as far as to say I’ve saved lives using glutathione. I will just leave it at that but, it’s an amazing compound, probably the most important compound, and our our mentor, awesome guy, Dr. Kalish. He did a great talk very recently about glutathione, and he was showing how important glutathione is with the body, and the body will prioritize production even over methylation and how important it is to really get this system working properly, and everyone is focused so much on methylation and they’re ignoring glutathione production. Everyone gets so caught up in mthfr, and genetic defects, and all that but they’re totally missing the boat on glutathione and this is your master antioxidant that is depleted during times of stress and during toxin exposure. So that could be any type of pathogen that could be mycotoxin we know that moltoxin will deplete glutathione, and you and I measure this routinely on urine testing, and I see low glutathione all the time. If we see organic acids that are too low or too high, we know that there’s a dysfunction going on, and this is something that can easily be remedied and supplemented and we have very very high quality sources that we use for people.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. So glutathione is a tripeptide, right? So when we use glutathione, we’re going to kind of put glutathione and NAC in a similar camp. It’s good to have both, NAC helps with your, helps your body with endogenous production. Meaning, helps your body make it, as cystine tends to be the rate limiting amino acid in making glutathione. So glutathione is a tripeptide. So it’s got cysteine, glutamine, glycine. Glycine is really great in collagen and bone broth. Um, glutamine you’re going to just see in a lot of gut healing formulas because glutamine is needed for healthy gut function. So if you have healthy guts, or you have an unhealthy gut and inflamed gut, you can see how glutathione, one absorption, and um, of course stress is going to deplete a lot of those amino acids just in the stress process. And so then uh, you make glutathione via those three amino acids and then also you have exogenous glutathione that’s giving someone’s acetyl glutathione or liposomal, or some kind of a reduced glutathione which are all great. Um, those are all going to be exogenously you know, from the outside in. Endogenous is making it inside with the amino acid. So it’s good to help with both. We know the data on glutathione, it helps with inflammation, it has and effect on modulating the immune system, modulating the or t regulatory cells and balancing that th1, th2 immune response . Th2 is going to be the antibody response the, the th1 response is going to be the natural killers of the special forces of our immune system, and then of course, glutathione helps produce compounds like um, catabolic enzymes like catalase and a lot of good natural disinfectants like superoxidise mutase and things that help with lung, and inflammatory health inside the lungs. You’re going to make a lot of these compounds with glutathione which are very powerful on the immune side. Excuse me, I need some glutathione now. On the immune side and also on the anti-inflammatory side. So like for instance, with a lot of lung health issues or breathing issues, we may even give reduced gluathione and a nebulizer because, that is shown according to research, to help with inflammation, and help with vasodilation in the lungs. So very powerful anti-inflammatory, very powerful disinfectant because of the superoxide dismutase, and that catalase enzymes which is really important for inflammation.

Evan Brand: Yeah, well said. I mean every hospital, especially every ICU, especially when it with luncg issues, I mean, every ICU should be passing out glutathione nebulizers. It’s amazing that that’s not standard practice, that’s not standard procedure. We would see much, much, much healthier people faster recovery times if that were part of the protocol.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. That’s a patient with some serious lung issues who we nebulized some reduced glutathione and within a day, we saw a massive massive improvement. And we know things like NAC for instance is shown to reduce virus replication. So that’s very powerful. So when you’re, when a virus kind of gets into your cells, it replicates and that’s how it create symptoms. The viral load has to replicate and if you have nutrients in there like NAC , android glutathione that’s going to prevent the virus from replicating the higher number. So very very important there and of course, the higher the viral load is, the more you can spread it. If you keep the viral load down, the less chance of spreading and infection so that’s powerful there. Anything…

Evan Brand: An you and I take that ongoing. Yeah, you and I take that ongoing. We do depending on what’s going on. We’re not telling you to do this dose but, what you and I are doing, at least I know for me, I’ve got a combo product. So we’re using glutathione, give or take a couple of milligrams per day of an s-acetylated glutathione which in studies is just as good if not better than liposomal because with liposomal, we have some really sensitive people, me included. I don’t really do well with ethanol, and a lotof the alcohol that is in some of these liposomal formulas so I personally stay away from those. I like the acetylated, I fell great. It works really really well. Papers prove how well it works and then about a gram of give and take of NAC. So that’s kind of my on going protocol. And also for toxin exposure, that also helps protect against the oxidative stress that also helps to deal with mold tox and we know glutathione can help mobilize toxins. So that’s something we use in detox protocol too. Not just for immune and viral support .

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% and virus replication, prevention, prevention, acute respiratory issues, all wonderful applications. I do about two grams a day of glutathione of and acetylcysteine, and one to two hundred milligrams of a glutathione whether it’s reduced as acetyl or liposomal. I’ll kind of rotate between the two. So that’s powerful out of the gates.

Evan Brand: Last call. Let me make one comment on the NAC and then we’ll move on. So at the time of this recording, uh, amazon has taken all NAC off of its marketplace. And there’s a lot of reasons that I could get into and probably  and get deleted for but, we’ll just say that NAC is gone but, you and I, we work with professional healthcare companies. We do still have availability so we will put link in the show notes because this is something I would recommend you have on hand, and if amazon’s going to take it away, at least we have it. So I think that’s important to know.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think so too. I like it, NAC. In my product detox aminos, we have reduced glutathione plus NAC in there as well. I know you have a product similar as well. We’ll put links below so you guys can see that. And we’re gonna kind of a lot of the compounds like five herbals slash immune compounds and then we’ll kind of look at the nutrients. And I always tell patients like focus on the nutrients first just because they’re nutrients. They have other roles in the body and it’s good there. So NAC and I think glutathione are going to be there. Low-hanging fruit, next is vitamin D. If you’re not getting enough sun, or you have darker skin, you’re going to need some vitamin D. Vitamin D plays a major role in th1 th2 balance. And also helps modulate t-regulatory cells which keep your immune system in balance. A lot of studies showing people that have lower, higher vitamin D levels are more resistant to different virus, infections. Our vitamin D also produce an antibacterial enzyme called cathelicidin which helps decrease bacterial load so there’s a lot of powerful benefits of vitamin  D and of course, in the winter months, when colds and flues are at the highest. Guess what? That’s when the vitamin D is the lowest on average because of the sun. So vitamin D is very powerful there out of the gates.

Evan Brand: Man, I just got my blood work back. My vitamin D was like a 45 which is too low. And I was kind of putting a false sense of security I guess into my sun exposure. I mean, I’ll get my legs exposed, my chest, my back. I mean, I’ll be outside for sometimes, couple of hours few hours a day, during the peak hours and my vitamin D was still below optimal. We like poeple give or take, we want to be 60 to 80, and I was at a 45 so I’m back on supplementing 5000iu plus a k1 k2 formula just to try to make sure I get up to that peak where I need to be so if you’re like oh, I’m outside in the garden. Don’t use that as your reasoning for not supplementing. If you have to supplement, it’s okay. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, absolutely. And I would just say 50-70 on an average is probably reasonable. If you have an autoimmune isse, or any cancer issues, you know. Being 70-100 is probably even better. But at least 50 I think is good. So you’re not too far away from that but yeah. If you’re like below 20s or 30s, or below that, you get problems for sure. So vitamin D is really good. Obviously, I think next low-hanging fruit is gonna be zinc. Zinc has major effects, zinc fingers have a major effect on your genetics and DNA activation. Zinc also plays a major role in hormones, making testosterone, making uh, stomach acid. So zinc helps with digestion. Zinc helps with on the hormone side, and zinc also plays a major role on helping viral loads. So lots of studies on zinc losses, zinc helps get into the cells, and it decreases virus replication, so we have natural zinc ionophores, right. Their medications that do it but there’s also some natural compounds like quescitin that actually help zinc get into the cells at higher level and zinc, zinc levels when higher can prevent the virus from replicating kind of like NAC. So zinc is a very important natural compound and so is quercitin as well. We could add quercetin and zinc together ro really help flood ourselves with good high quality zinc.

Evan Brand: And we don’t go too crazy. I mean, we’ve had people that are doing like 50-100 milligrams of zinc long term. That’s too much. Maybe on going for females, maybe 10-15 milligrams, males maybe a tiny bit higher but, I had one lady doing 100 milligrams of zinc and she was not feeling good. So that was too much.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. If your’re doing that much probably 50, it depends on the type, right? If you’re doing a crappy like  zinc acetate or something, if you’re doing like a zinc biscynade or eally good zinc bound to an amino acid, probably 50-70 acute like an acute type of situation. But outside of that, probably 10 to 30 max kind of from an ongoing basis. You’re gonna get zinc in pumpkin seeds and a lot of your grass-fed organic meat and or high-quality animal products.

Evan Brand: yeah. That’s the question. I mean, if you’re eating the way we are, I mean, I’m doing a grass-fed steak for breakfast some mornings. I mean, I wonder if I even need extra. I guess it depends on the situation. I will throw a little in; I’ll sprinkle a little in but, it’s not a big one I take all the time.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I mean it’s more going to be during stress and your immune system being more compromised, your nutrient levels are going to need to be higher and so that’s powerful there. I would say next out of the gates, vitamin C is important. Vitamin C are really important nutrients. Obviously, it has major role in oxidative stress; it’s an antioxidant. I would say the macrophages which are like the little pac-man, pac-woman that gobble up bacteria and viruses in the bloodstream. There’s a docking station for vitamin C on to that macrophage. And vitamin C can help potenciate the strengthof those little pacmen and pacwomen; very powerful. Now vitamin C has a molecular structure; very similar to glucose. Guess what happens if you consume too much glucose or I.e sugar. That glucose can dock on to that macrophase and actually weaken it. And so it’s important when you’re sick and your immune system is compromised, higher levels of glucose will mimic vitamin C and kind of dock on that receptor site and will make your immune system weaker. So keeping your immune system stronger by keeping the glucose under control is important. And then getting that good vitamin C in there is going to be important especially you know, acute right? You can always work on what I call a vitamin C callibration where you get your vitamin C levels up to just before, or just past the point where you have loose stools and then back up until they solidify, and you can do that during acute phase, if you’re sick, to keep your immune system nice and strong.

Evan Brand: I love my vitamin C but, I over did it because then, my iron was too high and I think I was doing like three grams of vitamin C for a long time and I was drinking my vitamin C powder with my grass-fed bison steak so that will increase iron absorption. So for anemic people, that’s a great strategy but, for males if you irons are really high, that’s one thing to consider and just track it with blood. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Retract your blood. You know, the natural solution for high iron if you’re a guy is gonna be therapeutic phlebotomy. So getting your blood tested, giving blood all those things are wonderful out of the gates. So we talked about zinc, we talked about vitamin C, we talked about NAC, glutathione, we talked about vitamin D… Is there anything else we missed there? We can add more nutrient. What would it be, Evan?

Evan Brand: Mm. I would say the B vitamins would be very important because, B vitamins are going to be helping mitochondria; we know that a lot of the toxins and things we’re exposed to damaged mitochondria. B vitamins can help support the kreb’s cycle. So in a roundabout way, I think that would be part of an ongoing protocol. If I wanted to keep myself up, keep myself feeling great, I think some Bs would be in the picture.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I think some B vitamins are always good. So I think we have vitamin C , D, zinc, NAC, and glutathione so we have five there and we’ll add a little bonus with um, with what you just said with the B complex. So that’s fine right there out of the gates. Why don’t we switch gears and talk about herbal slash compounds? So we have silver, colloidal silver or we use a nano silver so it’s better absorbed; you need less of it. Silver is very helpful because it can it moves through your body; it’s very small in its molecular structure; you’re not going to worry about algeria, or turning blue when you use a high quality silver because, the silver molecules are so small, they flush right by your body and go out through your kidneys, no problem. If you make silver, you have really big silver molecules, you know. Bigger than 20 part per million; like in the hundred per million plus then maybe that can get stuck in yous cells and turn you blue; but most of the archery are turning blue and turning blues and come from home made crappy silver. Uh, we use manufactures that have been around decades, and have never had a case of argyria or turning blue  because one, we’re just using high quality silver and it’s going to be tested, so we know the exact ppm-part per million. And so silver is great. Natural antiviral, and it also um, actually an anti-biofilm; so it actually helps the body deal with bacteria better because it decreases bacterial biofilms, which are the little protective shields if you think of the movie 300, right? The spartans, they have their shield and their spear, right? Well biofilms on bacteria are like the shield, right? So imagine like in the movie 300, you pull away their shields, now they’re a lot more vulnerable to attack. Well that’s what silver does to a lot of these biofilms on bacteria; and so it can allow the herbs that you’re using to actually kill that bacteria better. So silver is really powerful. Conventional medicine is even using silver. They use a lot of silver cellophane now. So If they do a total joint or total hip, or total knee, they’ll actually take the joint and they’ll wrap the cellophane around the joint because they found that it prevents mersa or antibiotic resistant bacteria which is powerful.

Evan Brand: Wow! That’s cool. I didn’t know that. So it’s funny a lot of things we talked about eventually will be mainstreamed. Like we talked about, I think glutathione with nebulizers should be in every ICU especially for long and viral issues and it’s not. So maybe one day that will become true just like the silver.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. So we have silver there, I will also hit some medicinal mushroom. There’s a couple that are out there. I mean, I like reishi. There’s some other ones that are really good but, reishi and a lot of these mushrooms one have an affect on in increasing the immune system. Whether it’s usually the th1 immune repsonse, uh some of them can actually deactivate viruses, right? A lot of the beta 1, 3 glucan, or the tritipines that are in there can deactivate viruses. That’s pretty powerful out of the gates.

Evan Brand: Yeah. I’d say turkey tail. I think turkey tail and reishi. Those would probably be my top two. I mean you and I do cycle in some mataki and chaga, and some lions maine. I really love lions main for cognitive issues or for helping with ngf which is called nerve growth factor. I had a woman who had chronic burning tongue for 20 years, and we’re able to completely reverse that using lion’s maine mushrooms. So we suspected it was a nerve injury because after a general procedure, her tongue was burning, and dealt with there for 20 years. Lion’s mane took care of it. So I just love lion’s mane but, for this conversation I think rishi, and I’d say turkey tail would be the best if you are having issues with oxygenation, and chronic fatigue, a lot of people having some post viral chronic fatigue, cordyceps, I love cordyceps mushrooms. I use that quite often as well. So those three would be awesome. Turkey tail mushroom, uh, rishi, and cordyceps.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. So rishi, cordyceps, I like other compound like golden seal’s wonderful. I had that on my Gi Clear four. That’s kind of in the berberine family. Um, that’s wonderful. I see a lot of berberines do amazing, working great, barbary. I like golden seal; it gets wonderful out of the gates.

Evan Brand: In what form? What are you referring to the berberine compounds for? What are you talking about?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well it’s an antibacterial. Berberines mix with wormwood. If you look at Stephen Buehner’s book, he talks about that having a very powerful anti-viral kind of synergist? So berberines with artemisia are very powerful there as well so I like that too. I would also say um, astragalus is also powerful. It’s a good blood cleanser, it helps with the spleen, it helps with B cell antibody production; helps clean out the blood a little bit. Any feedback on astragalus?

Evan Brand: Oh, love astragus. I’ve got tons of bottles of it and we made, we made astragalus for, for a long time. We had really good quality source, glass bottle, good stuff. I take astragalus all the time and especially for tick bites. If you’re listening and hey I want to improve my immune system and all of a sudden, I got a tick bite, uh per Stephen Buhner’s protocol, he recommends three grams of astragalus for the first 30 days to really ramp up the immune system. IF you have chronic lyme, though that would be a situation where you don’t do that because it can send the immune system the other direction. So that’s a one of my favorite herbs. I’m glad you brought it up and it’s often the root. Technically, we say the herb but astragalus root is what’s being used.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Correct. So we hit astragalus, we hit golden seal, we hit some of our medicinal mushrooms, we hit silver. Let’s hit one more out of the gates. Andrographis is another good one. And again, a lot of these herbs work by one, supporting or stimulating your immune response, and typically, a lot of them are going to work more on the th1 side, so they’re going to really help mobilize natural killer helper cell production and of course, that the also help support antibody production later in the game. And a lot of these herbs can also decrease the virus from being able to replicate. And so that’s helpful because the more replication of the virus we have, the more the symptoms increase. So we can decrease virus load while improving our immune response, then we kind of hit it in both angles. Now, people that are autoimmune, some of these herbs could make you feel worse right? But the way I look at it, as most people are going to be th2 dominant in a lot of these autoimmune issues and so naturally supporting th2 could be a good thing out of the gates. So I always say, work on supporting the nutrients first, and then you can kind of come in there with the herbals come in there one at a time and just see how you deal with them, and then add that to your medicine-functional medicine toolbox later on down the road. So if you get sick, you know different strategies that are going to help you.

Evan Brand: Yeah. It’s a good point. You’re hitting on the multiple mechanisms right? You’ve got vitamin D increasing the immunity, and reducing cytokines storms, you mentioned some of the antimicrobial benefits to it, you’ve got the biofilm support in there, you’ve got the intracellular support with the zinc and the quircetin, you’ve got just the standard immune support with your mushrooms, you’ve got your protection from glutathione and NAC. You know, last thing I’d like to mention on the herbal front, I would say some sort of adaptogen, we kind of talked about this off air.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, yeah.

Evan Brand: Adaptogens in a roundabout way, would be very beneficial and that’s something you and I take every single day, as far as I know you do at least.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right here! Ashwagandha is one of my favorites. My ashwagandha supreme. Um, ashwagandha has been shown to be taken long-term, very helpful for immune function, immune modulation. Obviously, ashwagandha can help cortisol surges too. We know that high cortisol stress can decrease you immune function. So if you’re having high cortisol due to some kind of acute response, ashwagandha may be a good solution to help get that cortisol response under control.

Evan Brand: If I had to pick two, I I think ashwagandha is up there. Maybe number three for me. I’d say number one based on what’s going on, rhodiola because of the antifatigue effects, the anti-anxiety, the anti-depressive effects. Also, amazing for hypoxia. For athletes, for anybody struggling with oxygenation issues, rhodiola is amazing. Second, I gotta go with eluthero, I love siberian ginseng, that combo of eluthero, and rhodiola, oh man. Holy basil’s also awesome too! I mean, God! You know we love adaptogens. So I would just say that any or all of those could be worked into a protocol, would provide an extra support to keep you up on your feet.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. And also with vitamin D, yeah. Taking vitamin D with k2 is going to be helpful or at least vitamin k. Again, if you’re going to have a tablespoon or two of high quality grass-fed butter or ghee a day, that’s great. If you’re getting any sauerkraut or good greens, that’s gonna be more k1. So you have those good quality fat soluble vitamins in your diet, you’re probably going to be okay. But if you’re not, that’s where it’s good to just have a little bit of vitamin K2 in there as an insurance policy.

Evan Brand: Cool! I think we covered it unless you want to throw any other herbs? And I think that’s a good, good stack though.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I mean, yeah. We hit a good amount, you know. Now regards to the amounts, I mean typically we may double or triple that the typical recommended dose on the back of the bottle if it’s an acute type of phase depending on what’s happening. And so that’s kind of a goo I think rule of thumb out of the gates, is at least double or triple for the first few days to a week during an immune response. Evan Brand: Yeah. On going though, for me rhodiola a couple hundred milligrams is plenty for me too much. I get over stimulated, same thing with elutheral couple hundred milligrams typically per day, early in the morning. And ashwagandha, I mean, you could go up to 500 milligrams or so would be I think a great ongoing dose for actually.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think, I think 500 to a 1000. You can go up to 2 grams on that, and again, it matters if it’s like, this is a whole herb right. Some are like a standardized extract but much smaller that could be more concentrated but, if it’s a whole herb you know. A gram to 2 grams is usually going to be fine, a gram on the lower one’s fine.

Evan Brand: Yeah, and we’re not. Yeah, and we’re not making your protocol here, so like if you go and you look at the bottle, and like well this is 80 milligrams of ashwagandha, so I’m gonna go take freaking 40 to get to what he recommended, no. You gotta pay attention like you mentioned to the label. Because like you said, standardized extracts , 80 milligrams could be equivalent to 800 milligrams if you’ve got like a 10 to 1 extract. So you gotta pay attention to your labels and know what you’re getting.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And also if you’re really night shade sensitive, and you have a lot of autoimmunity, be careful because ashwagandha is a night shade. But again, if you’re really sensitive to nightshades and via tomatoes, potatoes, eggplants, peppers, then be careful with that. Do it one at a time.

Evan Brand: Yes.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So outside of that, today was a great chat. I’m just, for the listeners here, if you guys want to reach out and get specific functional nutrition, functional medicine care, by either Evan of Dr. J myself, feel free to head over evanbrand.com, you can reach out to Evan there; there will be a link for you, as well as my site,  justinehealth.com. We are available worldwide via phone, zoom, facetime, we’re here to provide all your natural health services if you need that. Also, click down below, send us a review, give us a little comment on today’s podcast if you enjoyed us. Let us know, kind of put down what immune support is your favourite and what’s been helpful for you in the past. We’d love having clinical experiences shared. That’s how you learn a lot. Anything else, Evan?

Evan Brand: Absolutely. I think it’s, I think you covered it all. Just keep your head up. Keep moving forward. That’s all you can do. So I hope these tools will help people.




Audio Podcast:


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Heavy Metal Clear 90 caps

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How Your Diet And Blood Sugar Can Weaken Your Adrenals | Podcast #340

Changes in blood sugar levels may be a sign and symptom of adrenal fatigue. In the early phase of adrenal fatigue, you can see hyperglycemia (high blood sugar) and, in an advanced phase of adrenal fatigue, hypoglycemia (low blood sugar) is the usual presentation. 

The thing is, you may not notice a problem with your blood sugar levels, but that doesn’t mean it’s terrific. It is essential to monitor and know the symptoms of having a diet full of food content that send your blood glucose on a roller coaster ride of high and low levels. These glucose level swings can result in damage to your blood vessels, raising your cholesterol, and put you at risk for heart disease.

Dr. J and Evan recommend having yourself tested (not guess) and checking the food you include in your food template because they can be the reason for your chronic issues for so long.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

In this episode, we cover:

1:47    Adrenal Blood Sugar Physiology

9:26   Intermittent Fasting, Carnivore / Keto Diets

18:45  How Intermittent Fasting Helps

24:43  Hypoglycemia and Adrenal Stress

31:08  How Mold Affects Adrenals

35:00  An App that Helps Monitor Your Diet

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Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And we are live. It’s Dr. J here in the house with Evan Brand. Today we have an awesome podcast topic on the queue here, we’re going to be chatting about how your blood sugar can weaken and negatively impact your adrenal glands, we’re going to be talking about blood sugar, how it affects your immune system, how it makes you either strong or weak, we’ll be talking about nutrient supplement changes that you can do to help with that, as well as diet and lifestyle changes. So I’m excited to dive into this topic. This is a relevant topic that we are applying and seeing with our patients every day, especially ones that have adrenal issues, or adrenal and cortisol imbalances. So really excited to chat about this. And what’s happened today, man?

Evan Brand: Hey, not too much. Let’s dive right in. So let’s set the stage for people. This is a conversation that maybe didn’t happen. Historically, we didn’t have the chronic 99% of the time, we’re stressed and 1% of the time we take a vacation, we didn’t have that kind of lifestyle historically. And so I think now, you’re kind of talking about this with me, before we hit record, the average person is just so toxic, they’re so stressed. They’re sleep deprived. They’re on stimulants like caffeine, and they’re having these spikes and crashes all throughout the day, pretty much everyone is on both the stress rollercoaster. But they’re also on this blood sugar rollercoaster too. And that really affects the adrenals over time. So that’s where I want to set the stage with people is that we’re in a society that’s doing quick fixes. When we feel a blood sugar crash, we go when we eat the organic cookie. Now it’s an organic cookie instead of an Oreo, or it’s a gluten free cookie instead of an Oreo, but it’s still a cookie, and then you end up crashing again. So I want to set the stage of even though you could be doing paleo or similar diet, a lot of people are still having issues of blood sugar regulation, and we think adrenal is is is one big part of it, which is then connected to the gut. So really, we could make this thing like a three hour episode, but we’re going to try to condense it to half an hour.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. So let’s kind of do like an adrenal blood sugar kind of one on one physiology review for people just kind of coming into this. So your adrenal glands produce a hormone called cortisol, right, which is a glucocorticosteroid. Big word right, the first half of that word is glucose, meaning it helps pertain to blood sugar and energy. And so the more your blood sugar debates goes up and down, the more hormones have to be produced to buffer the highs and lows. So the more we keep our hormones snaking along, or we keep our blood sugar at let’s say in this example snaking along or stress snaking along throughout the day without big up and down spikes. Our hormones are called to the rescue far less. So. If I eat, let’s say one, I’m not eating at all. Let’s say I’m fasting, right and I’m not really good at being fat adapted, your blood sugar is going to drop and when your blood sugar drops, that creates a stress response. The first thing that happens on this low blood sugar drop is going to be a spike of epinephrine or adrenaline. Right? So epinephrine or adrenaline is like the key catalyst to wake up and call cortisol. So you get this epinephrine or adrenaline or catecholamines surge again, they are all the same thing. You have epinephrine, norepinephrine, you have adrenaline, you have noradrenaline, you have catecholamines. They’re all the exact same thing, same name. They’re just meant to confuse people. So just kind of put that out there. If I use these words, they’re 100% interchangeable, okay. So you’re going to have this surge and adrenaline. And that’s going to bring up your blood sugar when it brings that blood sugar up. This is when you may feel anxious. heart palpitations, this is May when you get a little bit dizzy, nervous, sleepless, irritable, right, sweating, you know. So when you start to have when you’re on those blood sugar rollercoaster, when this blood sugar drops and starts to come back up, you may have symptoms that make you not feel that well. And so then, of course, what comes up after that adrenaline surge is then cortisol is now going to help bring it up the rest of the way. So think of adrenaline is the it’s the, it’s the first responder, right. It’s the person on the operator line, getting the police ready to come to your home and then the police to come 1020 minutes late, that’s cortisol. Okay, they come a little bit later to the show. And so that’s important. So when you understand your physiology, that’s, that’s good. The next component is when your blood sugar goes back up on the high side, that’s where you make a whole bunch of insulin. So insulin can make you feel tired, it can make you feel fatigued. Insulin activates a lot of lipo Genesis, that’s fat storing lipo, meaning fat Genesis, creating and so when you start to have when you’re on a blood sugar roller coaster of high to low blood sugar, okay, this creates this high level of insulin, a lot of label Genesis that creates fatigue. And then of course, when you have a high level of insulin that brings your blood sugar back down, because insulin is opening up the cells trying to get blood sugar into the cells to either burn it or store it. And if you’re not active, and your cells are already full of glycogen, and you’re not actively doing something like walking or running or lifting guess what your body then shunts and partitions that fuel into the storing phase. So if you’re active, great, you’ll burn it. If you have muscles that have glycogen storage, you’ll convert it to glycogen which is glucose. Storage sugar storage. And if those two capacities are tapped, then we start going to fat storage starts going more to life with Genesis. So we’re on this blood sugar rollercoaster. So high blood sugar up high blood sugar up, a lot of insulin drops it down, right, then we have this, this really high drop high to low drop, this then stimulates a lot of adrenaline, catecholamines and then cortisol in the app, this is called reactive hypoglycemia. And then the other type of glycemia issue that we’re going to see is going to be usually fasting too much not eating enough low calorie diets, skipping meals, that’s more like this, that’s your blood sugars like this. And it just starts to drop into this hypo category, you know, maybe below 75. One goes up first. That’s the reactive, it’s reacting going high and then dropping, that’s reactive hypoglycemia, that’s typically going to happen due to poor diet, too much sugar, too much carbs, not enough protein on a fat. And then we have just general run of the mill hypoglycemia, usually from poor meal timing, skipping meals, too much fasting, typically low calorie dining. And again, if you’re doing a lot of intermittent fasting, but you’re low calorie in general, throughout the day, that can easily drive low blood sugar too.

Evan Brand: Wow, well said so the average American, they’re experiencing more reactive hypoglycemia because they’re on sodas, they’re on the Milky Way bar and hiding in their desk drawer at lunch, the person listening to us who’s hopefully relatively dialed in, they’re going to just be more in the standard, we’ve just called to us maybe a standard hypoglycemia situation. And then how do the adrenal is play into that? Because what you’re saying is happening is that, let’s say, and this happened to me, I can tell you firsthand what happened. But what kind of open it up. So intermittent fasting, you’re saying that could could drive that and you’re saying there, you’re kind of hinting at the fact that maybe the adrenals are too weak to help you’re seeing the adrenaline can be released, and it’ll crank it up. But you’re saying, Okay, I got like a recording, stop and start. So just making sure we’re good. Okay. So you’re saying that, in a normal situation, the hypoglycemia can start to happen, adrenaline should come up, kind of bump you up, give you the little nitrus booster, but you then you need cortisol to push you to the finish line. But you’re saying in the case of adrenal stress, the cortisol may not be able to get you up to the right amount. And that’s how an intermittent fasting situation could be not good for you. Is that right?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. So then if you don’t have good adrenaline output, or catecholamine, output, like so how do we know that as we look at organic acids, if we see imbalances and vandal Amanda later home of anolyte, these are amino acids that are precursors for dopamine and adrenaline. And again, dopamine is a precursor to adrenaline. So when you’re constantly stimulating adrenaline, you’re actually pulling dopamine down. And dopamine is really important for satisfaction, mood focus, right? So if you’re chronically stimulating adrenaline, you’re going to have adrenaline issues, you’re going to have dopamine issues that can create a whole bunch of problems. We’re going to know that because we’re going to see an organic acid test showing a lot of imbalances in those catecholamines. And if our blood sugar, if we have very low cortisol, we run a good quality Dutch test we see chronically low free and total cortisol, it’s going to be hard for our body to bring that blood sugar back up and we can kind of stay a little bit more hypo. And that can cause that irritability, that faintness, that fatigue, cognitive issues, mood issues, brain fog, it can create all those problems. So if we don’t have good when people talk about adrenal is people mostly just think about cortisol. When it comes to adrenal, they don’t think about the adrenaline catecholamine dopamine connection. And so when we talk about adrenals, we have to really look at the outer part of the adrenals. That’s the cortex. That’s where cortisol lives, that’s where aldosterone lands because we’ll talk about it in a minute. aldosterone plays a big role with minerals and holding on to minerals. And if our minerals go low, like we see in pots, right, which is a postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome that has to do with minerals being low sodium chloride, potassium, right, that can create a lot of symptoms similar to hypoglycemia. And so we have to look at the the cortisol component, but also the adrenaline the adrenaline tends to happen more in the medulla medulla M for more middle part of the adrenal gland. So it’s good to look at both and that’s where having a high quality adrenal test that looks at free and total cortisol, as well as an adrenaline, dopamine via the organic acids to look at what’s happening with the catecholamines and neurotransmitters.

Evan Brand: So how would this work? Let’s say if you weren’t doing intermittent fasting, let’s say you switched off of that maybe you were having these hypoglycemia episodes, the adrenals. were too weak to give you the cortisol output you wanted. So instead of intermittent fasting now you’re just doing like a carnivore breakfast, maybe you’re going to do a grass fed steak or maybe you’re going to do some pastured eggs or some pastured bacon. Is that enough to pull you out of that? Are you going to need some support? Would you recommend we throw in like a little bit of honey, some blueberries, you know, maybe something else to pull you out of that spike like is meat is meat enough? I guess is the simple question.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So what happens with proteins that you’re consuming is your body is going to be able to one, it’s going to be keto adapted. But again, not everyone’s keto adapted, you have to be metabolically flexible to be keto adapted, where you can actually take a lot of the fat, right, you have a glycerol on a free fatty acid, and you’re able to break that down, pull off some ketones and start burning more fat for fuel. A lot of people just can’t transition to that, because they’re very metabolically inflexible. And so protein and fats not going to be a viable source unless someone’s really dialed their diet in for two to four weeks, and really had that metabolic adaptation. Now, some people, their their insulin levels just dropped to low, and let’s say maybe below four or so or even below two on a fasting insulin test, they may need more carbohydrate. And, again, if they’ve been doing the diet for a month, and they’re in there, they’re having good proteins and good fats at every meal. And maybe their carbs are really low, we may want to add a little bit more starch in because sometimes they feel better doing that because it actually blunts the cortisol spike or the adrenaline spike that the body is trying to create to mobilize that glucose. So it’s like, we can add a little bit more carbs in via healthy, safe starch. And that blunt some of the cortisol and the adrenaline is being produced to mobilize that internally, some people, their insulin levels are really high. And by keeping the carbs super low, they’re bringing their insulin back into the sweet spot, and they’re actually good. And then when they add more carbs in, they actually feel worse, because their insulin is going out of balance, and they’re starting to get more into fat storage mode. So most people I find tend to be more on the insulin resistance side. So I always default to lower carbohydrate out of the gates, and then fine tune later once they kind of hit the wall. And you know, a good way that to see how you know, if you’re hitting the wall or not, is get to a place where you’ve been doing it for a month or two, make sure your body is pretty good at burning fat, right? So you’re eating good proteins, you’re eating good fats, that initial keto flu is over right, that first couple of weeks of getting fat adapted headaches, mood issues is over, then you can try adding a little bit more carbs in maybe at night. Have a sweet potato, a little bit of white potato, a little bit of a say starch, see if you feel better or not. If you sleep better, if you have more energy, if your workouts are better, recovery is good, that’s a good sign that that’s better for you if you don’t feel better. Or let’s say you’re you know, you’re very overweight, and you probably want to work on keeping the carbs in check longer, again, the benefit that you have with good fats and proteins, it’s hard to over eat when you’re eating good fats and proteins, because there’s good satiation signals to your brain that tell you to be full. That’s like peptide yy, adiponectin. coli cytokinin. There’s really good feedback regulations, people are like, well, it’s all about calories in calories out, it’s like, but not all calories, tell your brain that you’re full the same way. So you have to look at the the epistatic regulation of appetite, right and certain neuro peptides are going to be produced with certain foods, you’re not going to get that same stimulation, eating pizza eating Pringles drinking refined sugar, you’re not going to get it. And that’s why it’s so easy to overeat those foods, and you never really feel satiated, try eating you know, half a dozen eggs with you know, cooked in butter, it’s gonna be really hard to still be hungry afterwards. As long as you don’t eat things too fast, where people really go awry with proteins and fats is they eat things too fast, is about a 10 to 20 minute delay in those kind of chemicals telling you you’re full. And you really have to give your body that 10 to 20 minute buffer time. So eating slower, chewing your foods up really well, not overly drinking, when you consume those foods, giving yourself five or 10 minutes once you finish your meal before you get seconds. That plays a big role, because it’s really easy to overeat with these foods, when you don’t give it enough time. 

Evan Brand: Yeah, look at the marketing of potato chip companies, veggie candy, just one, they know that you’re not going to get leptin and all these other beneficial compounds and tell your body your full. So the marketing companies know what they’re getting into, they know you’re going to eat a whole bag of chips, because you’re never going to get that signal that you’re satiated. And that’s where you’re going into trouble. So let’s go back to the adrenals for a minute. So you mentioned running a Dutch panel looking at low cortisol. So what you’re saying is if you’re going to see a flat panel, or maybe just maybe it’s not flat, maybe there is some sort of peak on the cortisol in the morning, but it’s very weak. So overall, you would just say there’s a low cortisol output, you’re saying those people are going to tolerate intermittent fasting less, those people are going to tolerate very low carbs less so they may need a little more bump while they get their adrenals back on board. Is that safe to say? 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: If their cortisol is really low? Yes, it just depends kind of where they’re coming from. Right? If they’re coming from being overweight, being more insulin resistance, being more tired, being more fatigued out of the gates, always in a default to lower carb. If they’re coming from already being at a reasonably healthy weight and being pretty active already. Then I’m going to default to adding a little bit more carbs and so it just depends upon where someone’s coming from. So it’s always good to look at someone’s Samantha type right? ectomorph endomorph mesomorph right. endomorphs like The linemen write in football. And again, this can be like any one, but they’re just have a larger, higher propensity to put on weight, write the message, or then they have the ectomorph. This is more of the natural kind of basketball player type, they’re just more taller and more leaner, hard to put on muscle, hard to gain weight. And then you kind of have a blend between an ectomorph and an endomorph, called a mesomorph. Think of that as the M for middle, right. And this is kind of more like your linebacker in football, right. And again, these are extreme examples, but helps to kind of tell the tell the story, right? Not everyone’s a 300 pound lineman, I get that, right. But people have this propensity to put on more weight. But a mesomorph, someone that’s kind of more in the middle, like they could be taller and leaner, but they also can be bigger as well, they’re kind of in between. So usually, people are in one of the three of these categories. And usually, if you’re more on the ectomorph side, you’re going to be able to tolerate carbs pretty well. So that you have to just kind of like you know, see kind of where, where you feel best. And there’s a lot of people out there like let’s just say let’s people on the diet side, I’ll just I’ll call Chris kresser out, right? Chris? kresser is a ectomorph. Right? suit. You know, Paul jammin a ectomorph. A lot of people out there that like recommend more carbs, more higher carbs, more whole food, carbs? And it’s like, well, of course, you’re going to recommend that because you’re an ectomorph, of course, right? So you have to look at the people that are recommending certain things and look at what somato type they are because certain somatic types are going to have a propensity to handle macronutrients differently than someone else. So it’s good to look at that as a general template. But in the end, you got to fine tune it, you got to look at it, my default way of looking at because of insulin resistance is being so prone, because refined and processed foods have been eaten ubiquitously, you know, over the last 20, if you look at the macronutrient trends over the last 20 or 30 years, right, its proteins gone down a little bit fats has actually gone down a little bit. And actually cards have gone up. So when you look at that general trend, we can just assume out of the gates that most people are going to have carbohydrate problems, not protein and fat problems. And if they do have protein in fat problems, it’s usually from junky trans fats and or junky omega six refined vegetable oils, not healthy animal fats. 

Evan Brand: Yeah, very, very great points. And that’s important for people to listen, I mean, you’re hearing a clinician speak, you’re hearing the clinicians brain, because as you mentioned, if you get into some of these other people that may not be practicing clinically with people, they’re going to be able to give you a cookie cutter answer and you did not I was kind of probing you to give me some like buzz wordy, you know, like something I could post on Twitter type answer, but you gave me a clinicians answer. And I hope people appreciate that. Because there’s a lot of variants with this. And I know it’s frustrating, because when you listen to a podcast, you’re like, I just want to be told what to do how to do it. Give me the sparknotes? And your answer is there’s not really a sparknotes there are some categories, if you will, that we can put people into I’m definitely probably closer to ectomorph. And so I do better. Like if I do a grass fed steak and I throw some extra organic wild blueberries in with that for breakfast, I feel so much better with that extra little blueberry hit, as opposed to just the steak versus let’s say, my grandmother who had an high a one c score, she’s going to do much better with just the steak and she’s going to go but better lower carb overall.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. So it’s good to know, I’m kind of more of a mesomorph I’m kind of in the middle. And I just I look at you know, the problems that we as society have as a whole, generally speaking, and I kind of just create my recommendations to have the largest bang for the buck regarding the average person. And then of course, when patients come in, then you kind of look at them, you kind of look at their height, their weight, you know, especially you see a lot of women, you know, in their 40s. I’m like, well, where were you in high school in college it regarding your weight? Oh, I was 80 pounds lighter. Okay, so we know there’s some metabolic damage there. If you put on 80 pounds since that time, right. So then, then it’s good to really make sure we we support them being better fat burners, I think the next step I wanted to hit would be intermittent fasting. So someone in the comments here will talk about this, they talked about omad, or one meal a day, I’m not a huge fan of omad. Now people can do it, if they’re wanted, they have pretty good adrenals their diets really good and they’re very metabolically flexible. Okay, with omad. It’s one meal a day. So you need all of the calories that you need in one day in one meal. So number one is you’re going to be eating a meal that’s like two to three times bigger than what your typical meal would be. Because if you need, let’s say, you know, I’m six to 2015 pounds, right? I need like 3000 calories a day, if I’m you know, relatively active, well, 3000 calories is a lot of food at one meal. Okay, it’s a lot of food. Because you need your your micronutrients, you need, you know, your amino acids, I need probably at least half a gram per pound of body weight minimum for protein. So I need at least let’s say 110 grams of protein, that’s a big meal. So one, you need really good digestion, you probably needed over an hour to sit down and actually eat that meal if you’re not going to be sick because that’s a lot of food to eat at one time. So you probably need an hour to eat it. You need really good digestion really good enzyme and acid secretion. You need an hour to sit down and be able to handle it and you probably can’t move much for an hour afterwards because the meal so big, it’s it’s the equivalent of a Thanksgiving Day dinner. Right? And so you got to be careful with that.

Evan Brand: I think let me just give you a little I’ll give you some numbers real quick just to show how hard what what you’re describing would be. So for example, I love bison. So if you were to do a which this is going to be your fattiest cut, if you could do a bison ribeye, a 10 ounce bison ribeye, you’re going to get roughly less than 500 calories, maybe like for something like 450 to 480. So if I just did it as 10 ounces. So I mean, God, let’s say you did 20 ounces, which would be very hard for me to do a 20 ounce bison ribeye, you know, you’d be maybe close to 900 calories.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and so you’d probably need at least you know, if for me, right, you’d probably want about 25 to a third of your calories coming from protein right around there. And so you’d probably want about that steak would probably have to be about 20 ish, maybe a little more ounces than that. That’s a lot to do at one time. And that’s not including the six to seven servings of vegetables that you may want to do with that as well.

Evan Brand: And then what Yeah, I was gonna say, and then what else are you going to do? Let’s say you did like a cup of broccoli, that’s like 40 calories.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. So you need like literally eight cups of that or like, you know, 60 it’s becomes really hard. 

Evan Brand: Yeah, cuz I see why you don’t recommend it. So so your overall, your overall messages, you think maybe two meals a day, you could get away with a one meal a day you think for this type of conversations can be really tough.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, two meals is good. Two meals, you can do it in the morning, I mean, you may want to have like a little bit of bone broth, or something very gentle on the liquid side. Again, if you’re just trying to do intermittent fasting, it’s easier to do one, I don’t recommend it every day. But it’s easier to do like, you know, keep your eating window between 12 and eight, or let’s say two and eight, I think it’s easier that way gives you enough time to have a meal at two o’clock, five o’clock, or let’s say to, let’s say two o’clock, six o’clock, and maybe a little snack before bed, if you’re still hungry, you want to fill in the gap, right? So it’s a little bit easier from a nutritional standpoint to get your needs met. Again, if you’re having a lot of hormonal issues, I don’t recommend doing a lot of fasting out of the gates. Think of fasting as a stressor, it’s a stressor on your body, just like exercise is a stressor. So imagine your personal trainer, someone’s like super unhealthy. They’re out of shape. And you’re like, hey, come to my CrossFit class tomorrow, I’m 100 pounds overweight, come come across it, it’s like well, you know, with their weight being where they’re at, and how inflamed they’re at, they’re gonna be like, literally in bed the next week, with sore joints sore back totally hurt. So you have to make a recommendation based on what’s best for them. So you may say, hey, let’s just do like a 10 minute walk tomorrow, right? So a 20 minute walk, let’s say a five minute walk after every meal, that may be a better recommendation, right? So think of like the Oh, Matt, or like a lot of this intermittent fasting. That’s the equivalent of jumping a very overweight, unhealthy person into CrossFit. It’s the equivalent, it’s still a stressor on the body. Now, if you’re healthy, guess what? It’s a stressor that you can adapt from and get up and get stronger. But if you’re not healthy, that stressor is going to break you. And so you kind of have to know that, hey, this is an application of stress. And the question becomes, does your physiology have the ability to adapt to that stress based on where you’re at now? And for most people that are that we see clinically? No, that’s not gonna be the case. Yeah, there’s always weather. Yep. I always weather under Should I rather undershoot it have that person feeling better, less or less tired? And kind of in kind of gauge up then overshoot and make them feel worse?

Evan Brand: Yeah, well said. So this is the anti boot camp podcast. You see those boot camp signs? It’s like, they’ll just come in and they’ll just kick your ass on day one. I mean, they don’t care. You’re 300 pounds five foot tall. 300 pounds, haven’t walked a mile in 10 years and they’ll just come in and throw you down. Give me 50 them Yes. Boom, boom.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I mean, if your life if you can come home and just like recline back and chill and read and watch TV or just hang out all day, you’re not doing much. Okay, fine. But most people have like, have to work they have to do things, they have to do chores, they have kids and family and responsibility to take care of so it’s like their life can’t revolve around that right? So obviously with the TV show and that’s what their life is, you know, you can get away with stuff when that’s what all your focus is. But for most people, you know, that’s not the reality that we’re in.

Evan Brand: Yeah, and if you want to go another direction with this, please do but I just wanted to bring up one question here that came in the live chat. And for people listening if you want to join us at the time of this recording, maybe we change the schedule but for now we go live every Monday somewhere around 11am Eastern on Dr. Jay’s Justin health YouTube channel so if you want to check them out, that’s how you can join us in the live chat question here. Does sugar or caffeine effect? I think they meant effect. The sugar caffeine weaken the adrenal is the most. I don’t know if they’re saying like either one. I would say both are a factor in people going to Starbucks and getting their dessert in the cup, which they call coffee. That sugar caffeine combo, I would say is a super big issue with hypoglycemia and adrenal stress. What would you say?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think it depends if someone’s doing a cup of coffee or two in the morning and they’re consuming it with some fat and some protein like maybe they’re throwing some collagen MCT oil in there. That tends to time release, the caffeine tends to not be as big of a deal because the caffeine is going to be out of their system, you know, by the time they go to bed. So if they’re doing a cup or two, as long as they are not getting anxious, anxious or irritable, or Moody, or any of those negative symptoms afterwards, I’m okay with a little bit of caffeine. And again, if you’re on the fence, just pull it out or choose something that’s more decaffeinated. Choose a coffee substitute, like to Chino, or do a decaf, kameel or decaf green tea. See if you feel better if you don’t notice a difference where you’re not feeling worse with caffeine, a little bit’s okay. And if you want to time release it, a little bit of fat in there and a little bit of collagen, will time release it and just do it in the you know that first hour or two getting up, don’t do it in the afternoon hours. If people that get in trouble are the ones that do it usually after lunch, and they’re trying to get at that second when between three and five. And then it’s it’s causing a second cortisol surge at night because that caffeine still in their system around 10 to 11 o’clock at night.

Evan Brand: So what you mentioned is good, but your average person’s not doing what you’re you’re doing. They’re wrapped around the Starbucks drive thru, they’re gonna go get a venti caramel frappuccino with frickin whipped cream and six pumps of syrup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, so what we’re talking about zero sugar in the coffee, we’re talking totally black with the exception of maybe some MCT or, or a heavy coconut cream. Or if you can handle dairy, maybe a heavy whipping cream, some kind of a good fat in there that you can tolerate. Maybe it maybe it’s just MCT oil, maybe it’s some collagen as well, because that time releases it and really allows it to go in your system slow. Someone on the chat talked about using glucose and sugar to keep their blood sugar stable throughout the day. Like that’s literally like going camping and keeping your fire going all day with paper and kindling. It’s just it’s not practical, because you’re never going to get keto adapted, you’re never going to become a fat burner, when you’re literally relying on glucose to keep your blood sugar stable all day. That’s the problem. And that’s like, you know, physiologically, the antithesis of health. Because really be healthy, you really want to be fat adapted. So you can help burn can help get energy from fat, it’s the most stable energy source, that’s not going to require up and down dips. So the equivalent of that is getting energy from logs in a campfire, which burn a lot longer and stronger than let’s say kindling a paper. So you just have to look and say, if I’m camping, the goal was I want to really get my heat from those good logs, not killing your paper because I don’t have to be feeding it all day long. That’s the difference.

Evan Brand: Yeah, and some of this biochemical talk people may dislike to now and like, turn into a zombie. So if you’re listening to this, you’re like, well, how does this actually change how I’m getting through my day. So that example that Justin’s mentioning with the really good fatty coffee versus the really sugary coffee. So this is the person who, like I know, you’ll do fatty coffees, like during our podcast, so you’re going to be burning clean, and you’re going to have a good energy burn throughout the entire morning, versus the person doing the sugary caffeine, they’re going to crash Two hours later. And then they’re going to go for maybe as this person mentioned in the comments, or they’re going to go for fruit or fruit juices or something else, they’re going to get that quick hit of kindling again, and then they’re going to crash. So when you’re at work that you’re not going to be performing at your best. I mean, if I were in charge of like a massive company, and I had the ability to give people support, I would say, hey, look, everybody can do a nutritionist console, let’s say you had like a warehouse worker. And we found that the output of the warehouse workers were 20% more efficient, if we all had them on more animal based higher fat diets, as opposed to these people. You know, when I used to work at UPS to pay for my college, you’d have these guys who on a four or five hour shift, they pull out two or three candy bars just to get through the shift. And here I was eating just my grass fed ground beef before I went in, and I was stable the whole time. These guys could work for an hour, they got to go do a bag of chips, they go to the vending machine, get the coke, and then they go do the Cheetos. I mean, it was literally it was crazy to watch.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, exactly. And there’ll be a lot of people out there. And this is why I talked about this amount of time to people that you’re going to see breaking all the rules that I’m saying these are going to be the vegan vegetarians, the high carbers. And when you’re an ectomorph, you can handle lots of carbs your body has the ability to take those carbs shunted in Burnet right away. And then these are the people that get energized with more carbs. Like if I if I give you a glass of orange juice and a bunch of carbs, these are the people that want to go out and literally run a marathon because their body handles carbs, and it just fuels them up and makes them so energized. And so we all have vegan vegetarian friends that just literally eat carbs all day, right? You know, you see the fruitarians that are out there. This is a big thing. I think in the 80s. at Apple, there was a big like fruitarian called they all ate fruit was like unbelievable. And you see people that are energized, energized. These are ectomorphs these are people that can handle that I still don’t think it’s healthy, I think as long term ramifications with insulin and oxidative stress. But people can do that based on kind of their natural genetics, metal type and how they can handle fuel. Most people aren’t at that place. And so you kind of have to really look at getting good proteins and fats in there and manage your blood sugar accordingly. And so, the only other thing I wanted to highlight was oh yeah, let’s say let’s say you’re doing a fast like a two day course. free day fast if it’s a punctuated fast, and most people want to faster, they’re keeping their stress down, they’re not going to go work 12 hours a day and deal with stress, because when you’re fasting, you’re not getting nutrients in your body via vegetables, or fruit or protein. So you’re relying on primarily your fat for fuel. And obviously, protein, you’re doing what’s called cellular autophagy, where you’re recycling proteins. And ideally, you’re recycling some of those, you’re getting some of those for fuel, you’re also getting a big bump of adrenaline and cortisol for those couple of days. So you may feel pretty good and pretty alert if your adrenals are strong. And then of course, you’re you know, you’re getting a lot of the fat because you’re tapping into fat, but long term, that’s not good, right? Because we know, any person that’s been on a long term starvation, like diet, you know, you just look at people will were to post concentration camps that were starved, but no one walks out of that healthy, right? It’s impossible. But for a short two to three or four day period, you definitely can. And the key is you have to keep your stress down and under control, maybe do some bone broth, or do some minerals as well to keep your minerals and your electrolytes up. But most people that will still be the equivalent of a CrossFit workout. And if they’re metabolically unflexible, that could break them as well.

Evan Brand: Yeah, well said another question here, I have a friend that lives in mold and is super stressed. How does mold affect the adrenals? Well, it is a huge cause of adrenal issues, mainly because it’s creating this alert response, it’s creating a sympathetic stress, the body’s trying to react to it, hopefully, the body’s reacting to it, meaning that there is some sort of immune response. And maybe there’s some antibodies that come in, maybe there’s some detox pathways that are ramping up. So hopefully your body has a reaction, but it’s a huge adrenal stress. And I would say, even if they’re not living in mold, and you just have mycotoxins in your system, that can be an adrenal stress, or two, I know for me, I had a lot more baseline anxiety when I had just mycotoxins in my system, and I wasn’t being exposed to mold, my wife experienced the same thing. So we were doing adaptogenic herbs to help regulate the adrenals. But once we’ve detox quite a bit using binders, when we’ve done many podcasts on that, my baseline anxiety is back to the way it was before, which was I didn’t have baseline anxiety. So yeah, I can tell you firsthand, it’s a big, big factor.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I mean, the first thing we have to do, if we have issues with mold is you one, you got to get your environment more stabilized, make sure you’re able to digest and break down foods and get good proteins and good fats in there. Also, on the flip side, right, I’ve talked about, you know, some of the fasting benefits and stories, we have a lot of we have a large group of people out there that are carnivores, like they literally just eat meat all day long. And they do amazing, right, and so like, you have to look at both sides of the camp, because their success stories on both sides of the camp. And so you have to understand why someone may have a success story over here, and not over there, or why someone over here has one but not over there, you have to look at it in a kind of non dogmatic type of, of mindset, right? People kind of have their camp and say, Well, this person over here has to be lying. It’s like, Well, probably not. And, you know, we’ve seen 1000s of patients. So I’ve been able to kind of understand why certain people on the high carb get great success and why people on the extreme low carb, and why somewhere in between tends to be the biggest bang for your buck, right and, and then who are those people that way you can make recommendations and push people to either direction, so they can get better results. Because it’s like you’re either you either have like my allegiance is to getting the patient the best result not to using a tool to get them to the result, I put enough tools in my tool belt so I can be non attached to the tool because I want the result to get happen for the patient. Some people are really, they’re really attached to the tool, and they want this tool to be what gets them the result. And you really have to, as a patient, find doctors that are unattached to the tool, they really just want to get you the result that you’re looking for.

Evan Brand: Yeah, well said and, you know, me being an ectomorph, you would think I wouldn’t do well with just tons of meats and fats. But I do great, really low carb and there is some discussion of mold and fungal infections and candida overgrowth and CBOE and CFO and some of these things, that people will do better. And I definitely had a history of a lot of gut issues. So I think for me, that’s part of the reason I do so well low carb as an ectomorph. But I certainly feel fine on starch and white rice and berries and, and all of that. And I’m kind of lucky, I guess I think it’s a blessing to be able to do both, it’s a blessing for me to have a grass fed steak with just blueberries for breakfast and feel fine all day. But it also be cool to do some rice with some dinner and have no issues with it. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You have enough of a solid foundation with your proteins and your fats and your nutrient density. Where those those a little bit of carbs, it’s not gonna be enough, it’s kind of like you have a fire going you have a good log already in there. If you throw a little bit of kindling extra in the fire, it’s the fire is still gonna be there, right still gonna be strong. And so that’s kind of where you’re at and the more metabolically flexible you get, you know, but in the end, you got to listen to your body, right? We got we got to be we got to be data results driven, not not dogma driven. And if you feel great doing something, and you know your nutrient density is up and you’re in you feel good and you feel energized and you feel flexible and you don’t feel inflamed. That’s really important.

Evan Brand: Here’s what I recommend this podcast is brought to you by Daybook. No, it’s not actually brought to you by Daybook. But Daybook‘s a cool app that I have on my phone. And I love it, because I’ll pull it up real quick. I love it. I wish I could share my screen on my phone somehow. But anyway, I love because I can just scroll through it. So people don’t audio, you’re not going to see this at all. And I apologize. But anyway, it’s cool, because you can look at it. And you can go may 27, may 25, may 23. And you could just scroll through and you could be like, oh, look on May 3, I wrote here that I did a grass fed steak and a big old bowl of white rice, and my blood sugar crashed. So it’s fun to be able to report back. I know there’s a million apps out there. But that’s just one that I like, because I like to be able to hit the plus button, start new notes, do voice to text, whatever I can and then boom, I can look back, and I’ll just be like, oh, here, here’s where I messed up. And so I think people have to track this. You’re mentioning that listening to your body. If you’re busy, you got kids, you got a job, it’s tough to know, oh crap, what day was that, that I did the rice and then I did the grain free this and the gluten free cookie or whatever. If you can track it in the app, you can report back, so picking out but that’s what I like.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I like that. Also, just for my autoimmune patients listening I see a lot of patients that have thyroid issues hashimotos other autoimmune issues, blood sugar fluctuations high to low can definitely increase immune activation. I have a couple of studies here. I’ll just kind of give you all the overview just so you could take on what sticks was study right here talking about the effects of hyperglycemia on an inflammatory response. Another one here, the effects of induced hypoglycemia on inflammation and oxidative stress with patients that have type two diabetes that they made diet changes where they restricted calories and gave them Metformin to cause low blood sugar levels. And they saw an increase in immune response, they saw an increase in monocytes, and platelet aggregation, a whole bunch of things right. And so you know, we’re talking about inducing low blood sugar in a in this could get out of a study on this directly. But we could do this with a bad diet with hypoglycemia from a reactive hypoglycemic diet, like someone consuming a Starbucks macchiato with extra pumps of Carmel in there and you create a low blood sugar response. That way, you’re going to activate interleukins cytokines monocytes immune responses that are not going to be helpful and may even flare up your autoimmunity. And so the more you can snake your blood sugar along throughout the day, with good proteins, good fats and the right amount of carbs for you and your activity level versus up and down swings, the better it will be we know the data on on low blood sugar and the immune response is profound and people that have autoimmune issues, you really have to work on that. Yeah, right here. Although the underlying mechanism remains unclear, increase inflammatory cytokines and leukocytosis are reported after hypoglycemia, suggesting a link between hypoglycemia and in formation. And again, this hyperglycemia will be a little bit different than let’s say intermittent fasting, hypoglycemia, but the faster your blood sugar drops, right? The more inflammation, the more your body’s gonna create a hormonal response, that’s not going to be helpful.

Evan Brand: Makes total sense. Here’s a lady grace left the comment for it. She said she used to do one meal a day and two meals a day. And it felt like a badge of honor when I could fast for longer, but I realized it was stressing me out and not optimal for digestion. Probably meaning saying she’s not optimal for digestion. Yeah, it’s just too much too much at one meal.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So you know, if you do that, you know, I think you come at it a couple days a week, make sure you’re relatively healthy. Make sure you take some extra HCl or enzymes, make sure you carve out a little more time to eat that meal, so you’re not stressed. Also, just just go and run your food through chronometer. Like, if you’re getting two meals a day, you know, go go carve out what that meal has to look like you’re gonna find it’s about 50% bigger on average. And that’s just a lot more food and a lot more time and you got to make sure you’re not stressed because we all know what happens when you eat a big meal and then you’re stressed you feel even worse you feel totally weighed down, you feel nauseous, then your next meal you don’t even want to eat it because you’re still just upset. So yep, I think we hit today really good. I would just say like understand the connection between cortisol, adrenaline, your immune system, why some people get great results doing different diets and other people right read between the lines be results driven, not dogma tool, modality driven. It’s really important right? Check your biases at the door. Outside of that I hope this podcast resonates with different folks if you want to reach out and you want to get individualized help from Evan, EvanBrand.com you can reach out to Evan. Dr. J here JustinHealth.com. You’ll see schedule links. We’re happy to work with patients worldwide. You know we are in the trenches rolled with our sleeves rolled up dealing with people every single day so we’re here to help outside of that if you enjoy the content, put your comments below let us know what you liked the best and please share with family and friends that could benefit it really helps propel kind of our life’s mission to help more people every day. Appreciate it. Anything else Evan?

Evan Brand: No that’s it Take good care and yeah leave us a review on your Apple podcast app we’d love it if you’re on Justin health show or if you’re on my show and brain show, give us a review, we’d love to see what stars you think the show deserves. We’ve got hundreds and hundreds of five stars we’d love to add to it that helps us in the rankings so more people can hear us. So thank you so much in advance and take care yourself.




Audio Podcast:


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Weight Loss, Lifestyle, & ARX Fit with Jim Keen | Podcast #170

In this video, come and join Dr. Justin Marchegiani and Jim Keen as they both share some of their thoughts on living a healthy lifestyle. Jim Keen from ARX Fit used to be a trumpet player for more than 5 years. His lifestyle used to be sedentary and his circadian rhythm was not being followed. Here, the two health experts will give you some tips on how to live healthier, how to exercise better, and how to enjoy a healthier body.

Learn how Jim went from being overweight to being healthy and fit, find out more about his story, and pick up some valuable info which you can use to help you kickstart the health journey of your own!

Jim Keen of ARX Fit

In this episode, we cover:

02:47   Circadian Cycles and Sleep

09:37   Importance of Dinner-Bedtime Gap time

10:45   Adaptive Resistance Exercise (ARX)

15:27   ARX Can Never Be Excessive

19:13   ARX Alpha Versus ARX Omni





Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey, guys. It’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani here. Welcome back to Beyond Wellness Radio. We got Jim Keen in the house. JIm is a fellow Austin native. Just moved down here last year from Chicago. He’s part of the ARX scene. Again, I’ve seen Jim many times over at the Bulletproof conference over at Paleo. We got a connect here soon in Austin now that you’re in town. But, welcome to the show, Jim. how are you doing?

Jim Keen: Thank you very much for having me. I feel superlative. They can’t stop me now. Two cups of coffee deep, and uh— living the dream here in Austin.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s it, man. Well, you’re interesting because you work with kind of newer cutting edge technology with the ARX, which is cool. You kind of gotten some of these diet and lifestyle stuff down. You kind of intertwined the two. But, you also have a— a personal story. I know you were up to 270-280. And, look at you now. You— you’re all stealth. And not to mention the something that we said for that moustache, too.

Jim Keen: It’s not actually the same way. It’s just the moustache’s just so sonic.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: [laughs] I love that.

Jim Keen: It’s an illusion.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Optical illusion. I love it, man. Very cool.

Jim Keen: [laughs]

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Walk us through your story. How did you get to where you’re at?

Jim Keen: So, I was a trumpet player, my first career. I have a degree in trumpet performance, of all things. And for six years, I worked on broadway shows. When they go on their first national tours, uhm— I would play in the Pit orchestras for those tours. But, I was about 270-280. In college, I got really good at drinking, uh— which was fun. But then, I got super fat, so that was no fun. And then I had just three hours of work, everyday, at night, So, my hobby during the days became how do I get not fat. So, that led me down the big rabbit hole, with which we are all accustomed to, the Primal and Paleo side and also to the Lyle McDonald down on Aragon. Count him up, macro sort of side [crosstalk] mixed together. And then I became aware of the prototypes of what would eventually become ARX. And, eventually, it just  became too much. Couldn’t handle it. I said I’m getting off the road. I took some tour money. And I bought what was a previous generation of an— an ARX machine and I put it in my apartment in Chicago, a one-bedroom apartment. I— instead of a couch, I had this ARX Omni machine, uh— which is great. Bringing people over, nowhere to sit, but we had an Omni. So that was good. Uhm— but…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Nice. [crosstalk] Nice.

Jim Keen: …anyhow, one thing led to another and then I’ve come now to— to work for the company.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Great. So, kind of walk me through kind of how the diet and lifestyle component became added, ‘cause I’m always fascinated how people kind of arrive at optimal health. And some people take different journeys. I mean, you had access to this really awesome cutting edge kind of— we’ll talk more about it, kind of isokinetic technology that really kind of shortened your workouts and allows you to hit kind of your best bank for your buck there. But how did you incorporate the diet and lifestyle component? What did the integration look like?

Jim Keen: Well, the diet and lifestyle stuff, I— it was actually the reason— one of the big reasons for my career change uh— was when I became aware essentially of Circadian cycles and…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Jim Keen: …sleep. And that was my first big “aha!” moment. It was like, I am messing up. I— The show ends at 10:30 every night, and I’m playing trumpet, bright blue blue lights and loud noises and, like, stress levels and your heart’s beating ‘cause it’s got to sound like cast album. You got to sound good all the time. And so, it’s a high stress thing at 10:30 at night. And uh— that dog ain’t gonna hunt. So that actually learning about all these type of stuff spurred my inspiration to get off the road and— and do this. And then, other than that, uh— just reading all the books we all know in love uh— and just learning the reasons behind like, plants and animals and uh— good clean water, and no blue light after dark, and all these. It all kind of come together. And then when I got off the road, I started actually putting it into practice ‘cause I didn’t know if it’ll work or not. I had read read about it. But then, you don’t know who’s blowing smoke and who’s just selling things. And— So I— Then I tried it on my own, and uh— some things didn’t work, but some things really worked. And then, in each area thereafter, I just became really enamored with those things that gave you a great return on investment. So, in food and in sleep, and uh— and in exercise, which is why I became aware of ARX and sort of joined that movement. Uh— It’s just like in this area, it gives you a great return on investment. So, let’s maximize that and really concentrate it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it. So, kind of walk me through. Kind of— where was your diet before? Was it kind of a Standard American thing? And what was some of the first couple of shift that you cut? Grains out, did you just— you know, get more good proteins in, more vegetables versus other types of starch? What are that first diet shift look like? You mentioned the lifestyle shift, which is kind of a Circadian rhythm. I know Dr. Jack. You’re a big fan of him. We know the Circadian rhythm stuff. If you’re out of harmony with it, it can create Insulin resistance, just like eating too much carbs or grains can. [crosstalk] But walk me through that diet transition you made first.

Jim Keen: Well, uh— It was actually me bumping my head against the wall, about seven or eight times in a row, like Einstein’s definition of insanity. And I was just the— “Eat less” sort of idea, and I would count calories. And— So, we’ve all been there. Anybody who has uh— excess weight to get rid of has been there. So that’s where it started, and that didn’t work long-term. So, the first thing— I think this is back in 2008/2009— I’m not exactly sure when the book came up, but I— I read like Garry Taubes, and that was…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, yes.

Jim Keen: …my first. It was like a good calories bad calories, and I…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Good calories.

Jim Keen: …thought, “Okay. That’s simple enough. I get that. I’m a smart guy. I can just sort of not eat carbs.” And it wasn’t really anything uh— about food quality that I was focusing on. I was just like a— the early days of carb counting, you know, like almost an Atkins style thing. Uhm— and so, that was the first thing. And that was successful. And a lot of people have initial success with that. And then, like a lot of people, your success sort of plateaus out. But to me, hanging out after that weight loss and plateauing, great success. Fantastic. Loving it. I— And so, that was the first sort of thing. And that then leads down the rabbit hole. And there’s lots of articles that are written about that, blog posts that are written about that. And uh— and so, I was absorbing all that information and then slowly took that same basis. And then, started adding in some things I was learning about food quality. Uh— so, it was that book, uh— Jonathan Bailor. Uh—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep.

Jim Keen: The Smarter Science of Slim…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: The Calorie of Illusion—

Jim Keen: …and The Calorie Myth later.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Jim Keen: Uhm— That was great background information; a lot of research there. Uh— and the most recently, along that same line is the Jason Fung type stuff, I’ve been given too, about [crosstalk] fasting.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: About fasting. Uhmnn—

Jim Keen: Uhm— the metabolic uh— scenario that’s created in that context. So, I really like that, and that all ties in well. And then learning a lot of other stuff along the way.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Great. So, just curious. System on the clinical side here, just give a quick diet recall. What was your diet like? Just from a…

Jim Keen: Oh yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …breakfast, lunch, and dinner perspective before. And then, just kind of walk me, where’s it right now?

Jim Keen: So, before, it was a— sort of a— my 270 days. It was sort of anything goes, [crosstalk] with the emphasis on that—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: The seafood guy, right?

Jim Keen: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: The seafood—

Jim Keen: Yeah. It— Precisely, right. And uh— so I had no problem with fast food and deep-fried stuff, and I’ve just crushed that. And my— my torso was just this well-equipped cauldron of stomach acid that— that could handle pretty much anything. I was invincible. It was great. Uh— but I just get super fat instead. Uh— So [laughs]— So that was cool.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it.

Jim Keen: I had a lot of late night eating, especially when you go drinking. Got to have fourth meal, and then sometimes, fifth meal. Uh— so I just crushed that. I was really good at that. I— and so, these days, uh— I do more of a— like I mentioned before, Circadian approach of sort of a large breakfast, protein and fat, primarily. Uhm— and then, if I’m gonna do a workout later that day, maybe a little bit of carbohydrate. Uhm— and then, I have a meal right around 3:00 or 4:00 PM, on a day when I’m in control of my schedule. Uh— 3:00 or 4:00 PM, I’ll fire up another sort of smaller meal. Uhm— and I am sort of weird. I like to mix breakfast uh— for dinner. I don’t mind…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love that.

Jim Keen: …having dinner foods at breakfast. I—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love that.

Jim Keen: I have no problem having a burger or pork chops at breakfast.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmn—

Jim Keen: I’m sort of weird that way. And I have no problem having, you know, six eggs and a bunch of veggies uh— in a bowl with— with some seasonings for dinner. Uh— and my girlfriend thinks it’s weird, and I regret nothing.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I love when I do bacon and eggs for dinner, just really mix these things up. It’s just awesome.

Jim Keen: So, it— yeah, makes the moustache thicker, too.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: [laughs]

Jim Keen: More power.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I love it. [crosstalk] I like good [inaudible] of that.

Jim Keen: [inaudible] to that. Yeah. [laughs]

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very good. So, I’m just curious, like when it’s all said and done, like, what do your macros look like? And you may not have run it through like a Chronometer or MyFitnessPal, but any idea kind of where they sit, protein, fat and carbs?

Jim Keen: Sure. So, I do kind of a— a cycling thing, ‘cause my ARX workouts— I get…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Jim Keen: …a whole week’s worth of workout in uh— just one day. So, typically, i’ll do one day a week of a very intense  ARX workout . And uh— so I usually have that to be my Carb Day. So, I’ll workout, fasted, and then, as far as macros, I might go 200 grams of carb, 140 of protein and the balance in fats. Uh— I don’t add extra to really hit uh— any macro goals these days—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And you don’t like— just like whole foods, like chicken thighs, like just real foods with real fat in it, right?

Jim Keen: Correct. Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmn—

Jim Keen: And uh— and then, uh— normal days, I typically keep carbs by happenstance, around 50 grams uh— or fewer.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhhm— uhmn—

Jim Keen: Sometimes, it’s just sort of a steak and eggs. Like old-timey bodybuilder, we just like kind of eat steak and eggs, and Brussel sprouts and broccoli, and chew on some nails. And then, that’s it. Uh— It’s so— Sometimes, I won’t have any use for any sort of starches or fruits or anything like that, and I’ll go for five or 6 days like that. And then it’s time for the workout day, and I will uh— kind of skip breakfast and do the workout, fasted. Uh— tear up some muscle. Empty out the remainder, the glycogen. And then, carb up again that afternoon. Being careful to leave four or five hours between the last bite and your head hitting the pillow.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Jim Keen: ‘Cause I hate going to bed on a full stomach these days.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay.

Jim Keen: Uh— I like to— like to leave plenty of room there.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And do you feel like you sleep better when you up your carbs like that or do you feel like it doesn’t matter? You don’t notice any difference with diet changes and sleep.

Jim Keen: I feel like uh— it doesn’t make any difference, so long as I leave plenty of time in between dinner and bedtime. Uh— you’ll— you notice a heating up affect you. Burn through those carbs and you might start sweating a little bit more than normal. Uh— those nights, I sometimes wake up at 2:00 A.M. having covered to sheets and sweet, just ‘cause my body’s still revved up from that. Uhm— but, normally, yeah. I— I sleep pretty well, normally. I’ve put a lot of uh— thought and time and energy and money invested into my sleep thing. Like, I’ve got a Magnetic Sleep pad and a nice mattress…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh!

Jim Keen: …and I have a…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Nice.

Jim Keen: …blackout shades. And I keep my bedroom uh— you know, pitch-black and cool. And so— Away from— no electronics, and all that sort of stuff. So, uh— So, it would— it would take a lot to have me sleep best.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s great, man. Really cool. And then, just curious. So, you kind of get this diet stuff dialed in, anti-inflammatory, nutrient dense, low toxin kind of uh— Paleo template. And then, walk us through. How did you start incorporating the ARX? And then also, can give you just keep people— just a first— I— just a cursory overview of what the ARX is. And then, let’s dive in detail. What’s actually happening, scientifically, there.

Jim Keen: Yeah. So, ARX stands for Adaptive Resistance Exercise.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Jim Keen: And what ARX is— is a technology that we uh— invented, that we produced and that we shipped out and sell, that allows people to perform strength training— resistance training. So, it’s a tool for that purpose. And uh— I was uh— still am, a big fan of high-intensity training…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep.

Jim Keen: …which I heard about first from a guy named Ellington Darden, that has a book—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Aah.

Jim Keen: He has a lot of books, but one of them I got a hold of. Uh— 2007 was my first introduction to that. Very quickly, I became aware of a guy named Arthur Jones. And if you…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmn—

Jim Keen: …remember that name, he’s the guy who invented the Nautilus…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep.

Jim Keen: …line of equipment and also founded MedX. Uh— and so, I read everything he’s ever written. Uh— that took a little while but I had a lot of free time. I was out on the road, just living in hotels. So, I had a lot of free time to read. I— and so, I became aware of the idea of brief and intense and infrequent exercise. The modern uh— iteration of this is Body by Science, the Doug McGuff and [crosstalk] John Little book.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Jim Keen: Uh— And so, some of your listeners might be aware of Doug McGuff and Body by Science. And it sort of uhm— a revision of the high-intensity training principles. And uh— So, that was what I was trying to do. That’s the protocol. That’s the goal. I— And then I was just looking around for what’s the best tool for that purpose. And you could use a barbell to do it. You could use can use a dumbell. You can use a selectorized weight stack machine. Uh— But I became aware in 2009 of these uh— what would eventually become ARX machines. And they’re just another form of resistance, just like a weight is, but they’re a better tool for the job. And so, uhm— what it actually is, is a computer-controlled motor-driven form of resistance. What it allows you to do is uh— it provides what we call adaptive resistance. But essentially, it just means equal and opposite. However hard you push, that’s the resistance you receive in return. So, a weight is the same weight, up and down. It’s just using gravity. So, if you lift a hundred pounds, you have to lower a hundred pounds. But, the weird part is that, that means you’re underloaded for a lot of the time. And you might notice, lowering a thing is easier than lifting that thing.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Jim Keen: And a lot of people say, “Well, it’s because gravity is helping you.” But, that’s not really the reason. The reason is, you have a far greater potential for producing force in the eccentric when your muscles are lengthening. And that happens when you lower a weight. So, for instance, you can control the descent of a far heavier weight than you could have lifted in the first place. And a lot of the research these days sights 40 percent as the number. You can lower 40 percent heavier than you can lift. Now, if you’re using a weight, I would agree, you can control a forty percent heavier weight on the way down than you could have lifted in the first place. But there’s a big difference between lowering a weight, and resisting and irresistible force. So, with an ARX machine it’s moving at a constant velocity. The motor is moving it. It’s man versus machine and you’re fighting the motor. And you’re intending to not move, and then it moves you, right? So, it elicits a far greater response from your muscles. But then, even on the pushing part, it resists you now. So first, you’re resisting it, then it’s resisting you. And at all times, the resistance is perfectly matched to your strength with the weight. Here’s your strength— you’re fresh starting strength. You need to select the weight that’s down here just so you can have multiple repetitions and have a set of exercise. So, after the first rep, now your strength is here. You’re a little fatigue. After the second rep, after the third rep, after the fourth rep— and you get all the way down until your strength is equal to the weight that you selected. But it took you like a minute or two to get there. So now, that’s the failure moment. That’s where you can’t move anymore,and that’s where your set is done. But what if you can have a weight that matches your strength right away, and then matches you each step on the way down. What if you had that failure intensity right from the very first rep and the whole way through. That’s perfectly match resistance. And it’s because of that, that it’s such a potent dose of the active ingredients in strength training: mechanical tension, muscle damage and metabolic stress. So you take those three things, you concentrate them, and you get a better bank for your buck.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Imagine it probably also decreases injuries as well, because the weight’s always within what you can handle. Your threshold versus— Your threshold drops 20 percent now; the weight 20 percent over. So, imagine you must see less injuries as well.Is that true?  

Jim Keen: Precisely, right. And the main two reasons uh— like you just mentioned, the first thing is it can never be excessive. So, we’d all experience being in the weight room, and the weight that you selected is all the sudden excessive. Maybe because you picked the wrong weight, but maybe because now you’re fatigued. So, that big heavyweight you chose for your fresh  strength is now being applied to your fatigue _____[15:26] So that’s the first thing. ARX can never be excessive. It’s only responding with you.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. [crosstalk] That’s nice.

Jim Keen: But the other things is that nothing’s gonna fall on you. Gravity acts on the user a hundred percent of the time, through gravity. So, as soon as you picked up a weight, you’ve just made a commitment to lower that weight. No matter what happens. So, you feel something weird in your shoulder, your hip, your knee. Well, good luck getting that thing back to the ground ‘cause it’s trying to get to the sun [inaudible]…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Jim Keen: …and you’re in the way. Uh— but ARX can only act in response to the user, so uh— it’s very safe for that reason. Nothing’s gonna fall on you. It can never act on you unless you first act on it. And if you stop pushing, the resistance drops to zero, instantly.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, the cool thing I like about it is the feedback of the— the new screen— uhm— feedback, where you can see your power [crosstalk] output. And that’s phenomenal because the cool thing about it is you can go back and you can look where you started the workout. Where you ended it. You can see how you progressing from previous workouts. And then, isn’t there like a threshold where when there’s a drop from your maximum output, 20 percent or 30 percent. What’s that threshold where ar— you’re done, you’ve hit that maximal threshold decline? What’s that at?

Jim Keen: That’s uh— will be called In-Road mode. And there was…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Jim Keen: …an idea from Arthur Jones that it means fatigue.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Jim Keen: And, you can program it to end after a certain number of reps, after a certain amount of time, or— and this is for people who want to be really targeted about what is the minimum effective dose. You want to induce a very specific amount of fatigue and no more. So, what we uh— have is the In-Road mode that establishes a green work zone, and you could set it for any percentage you like. Let’s say, you set it for 50 percent. And what that means is whatever your maximum is and you look at the— the screen right in front of you— whatever your maximum is, there’s a green zone that is then established based off at that maximum. Uh— that represents 50 percent [inaudible].

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: ____[17:14]

Jim Keen: And then, each rep, you would attempt to get up into the green zone. So, as long as you get up into the green zone, you get  to do another rep. Congrats. [laughs] You do another one. Another one. When you encounter the repetition, where you can no longer get up into that green work zone. I as the trainer, I know. I’ve taken 50 percent of your strength away from you and your steak is done. We take you off the grill.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That it?

Jim Keen: And I press stop. And that’s it. ‘Cause you’re 5 percent fatigue. That’s all I want. Next movement. I am— So, that is like, “Whoah! Why eight reps? What if I need ten today? What if I only need 6 today? Or, how come two minutes? What— What if I only—” I mean, people are very dynamic. They’re not static with their recovery ability. So, if you’re having a bad day, it might be only four reps. And I’ve taken half of your strength, and you just don’t have it today. Why do any more? Why beat a dead horse? So, we can measure that, which is very cool. And the other thing you pointed out was uh— we have a couple of people on the team who were fans of Mario Kart, from back in the day.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep.

Jim Keen: And  so ghost car in Mario Kart is where you do a run and then you race yourself in the ghost car and how you did before. So, we thought, what if you could do that in your workout instead of just lifting per sets and reps? What if I could see as I was doing the workout. What if I could visually see what I did a week ago, or six months ago, or a year ago, and compete against that guy? That’s really cool. So we have the ability now to do that, where I can pull up any workout I’ve ever done, put that up on the board, and then fight against it, in real time. Just the whether I’m improving or not.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I love that. That’s so cool. Now, you guys kind of started that with like a fixed type of device to start. It was like uh— kind of a straight push, or a straight— you know, with the— with the arms…

Jim Keen: Uhmn—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …or with the legs, or a pull, correct? But then now you kind of moved your way to a cable so it’s a little bit more of an unstable environment. Can you talk about that transition and what’s on the horizon? I know, we interviewed Keith Norris last year, around May or so. And, you know, Keith is part of— one of— one of the founders behind ARX. So, anyone listening to this interview, take a look at Keith’s interview last year. But can you talk more about that transition, and where are you guys next?

Jim Keen: So, it started out with— and we still— the motor on this machine is still humming along from 2008. Uh— but it’s— Imagine a forklift laid on its back.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Jim Keen: And the thing just goes back and forth. [laughs] and you put a plate on it to put your feet. You put some handles on it. So, with that, you can do a leg press, and you can do a chest press in a row.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: A row.

Jim Keen: So, upper body push and pull, and legs. And that is, developed over the years, so ten years later, a bunch of R&D into what we call our Alpha, the ARX Alpha. And it’s the main sort of— when you think ARX, you think about the Alpha. It’s the maximum in efficiency. It’s a whole body workout in three moves, from the same chair. Uh— it’s for the masses. There’s zero learning curve. It’s kind of like uh— how people all drive automatics, typically, today.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Jim Keen: There’s some people who drive manuals, and that’s if you’re an enthusiast…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Jim Keen: …if you’re a car guy, or if you want to have that versatility and control. But, most people— they just want everything done for them. Thanks.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Jim Keen: Like, what’s the easiest possible thing? We even train people to drive using automatics now. So, that’s what the Alpha is. It’s all your major skeletal muscles. All the medical benefits in strength training. Uh— and off you go. Great. Very quick workout. But then, we, of course, uh— ourselves, and through a lot of people who are athletes or enthusiasts, weekend warriors or people like that who want a little bit more novelty, and wanted a couple more bells and whistles and different angles of things, so then, we created the Omni. That was the second uh— of the two machines that we offer. And the Omni’s like the manual transmission.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Jim Keen: It’s a little bit more in versatility and control. There’s— a— anything you can do from a Cable Pulling Machine, you can do from the Omni. But it still has that motorized resistance, that is the real the real driving force behind the technology. So, uh— a Pulldown with any attachment —bles of chest press, a belt squat, a deadlift— Romanian deadlift, compound, row, biceps, triceps, shoulders. It’s— it’s got all that type of stuff. Uhm— but again, for my parents, and my grandparents, uh— it’s just Alpha all the way. It’s just sit down. Sit down, Ma. Push. Pull. Alright. Go live your life. See you next week. And then, week after week Ma gets stronger. Proveable uh— in the data. So, those are sort of the difference between the two that we have now.  

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mixed. So, one’s more of a cable type of environment. What’s happening next? Is— Can you share what the next evolution’s gonna look like?

Jim Keen: Well, at this point, we’re sort of the next evolution uh—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Is it more portable? I— I know you guys have a portable one that you give demos with. But is that where it’s moving, where it’s a little more portable?

Jim Keen: There’s uh— yeah. The demo unit is one thing. We’re sort of innovating new ways to have a smaller footprint…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmn—

Jim Keen: …so, we don’t need to build a big crate ship one. Uh— and we could carry it in our cars to trade shows, and we can give it to people for that purpose, for home use. So, that’s on the horizon. But really, uh— essentially, we’re a  technology company now, ‘cause we’re having all these data. We have uh— over a 115 units out in the wild. So, we’re collecting all these data in the cloud and doing nothing with it, right now. And so, that’s our next thing. How are we gonna use just all of this data we’re accumulating? Uh— We don’t know. That’s a big blank spot. We’re also uh— We have, in Beta version, adashboard people can see their data from home. Obviously, we have to build an app for that same purpose. Have all the API calls, satellites linking in space, talking to each other, and you can start to integrate your ARX data with the rest of your uhm— you know Internet of Things quantified self data. Uhm— so that’s sort of where it heads at uh— where it heads at now. And then, integrating that into larger uh— corporations and employee wellness initiatives, or in the assisted living communities around the country, and having them compare notes and share data. And, what’s the best way to help that population? And so, uhm— there’s a— a bunch of different sort of avenues that way that we’re also uh— focused on.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. The cool thing I like about it is it’s an objective workout. You can see your performance. You can— you can see trends, and it’s fast, and you’re not gonna hurt yourself. That’s kind of the big benefit of it. And you’re always pushing. You’re always pushing but you don’t have to go to the rack and grab a bigger weight and throw it up, and hope you can get it down like you said. It’s this— You’re kind of being pushed in a zone where you’re not gonna hurt yourself.

Jim Keen: Yeah, and what you’re describing is just one of the what I call barriers to entry. And for a health practitioner, it’s sort of huge that everyone sort of knows we need to be strength training. But, we’re just not gonna spend— spend a time to go to the gym in three, four or five times a week. And we’re gonna look stupid. And we don’t know what routine to do. And there’s people grunting in there and loud noises. So, you know what, I’m gonna retreat to my elliptical or retreat to my uh— treadmill or my bike. But, we need to be strength training. If it were a pharmaceutical, it will be a billions of dollars per year industry. It’s per bone density and metabolic health, and tendon and ligament…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, totally.

Jim Keen: …resilience and longevity, and on and on. This big scroll like long list of benefits. And so, for a practitioner, to put even like just the Alpha in a facility and uh— and you s— you read out that l— laundry list of benefits, and then you say, “I have a non-invasive outpatient procedure that I can now do. Takes about 10 minutes.” And you come in for it once per week, and you can get all those benefits and completely avoid the bone and muscle loss associated with aging. What do you say? Like, what sort of patient is gonna say no to that? That’s like, “Shut up and take my money.”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Jim Keen: I— And so, in that way, it’s providing strength training, real meaningful strength training to the masses who aren’t gonna do it otherwise. Democratizing strength training. It’s for the masses now. It’s just a better, easier to use tool uh— for that purpose.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it. So, let’s say someone— So, first off, how can someone get a hold of some of these devices? Where can they find who has them? And then, let’s say, they’re not quite there yet, or they don’t have something near them, what can people be doing at home outside of just conventional, you know, resistance training with compound movements or interval training? So, I’ll kind of give you that in two parts. Go ahead.

Jim Keen: Sure. So, the first part, uh— go to our Facebook page, facebook.com/arxfit, forward slash arxfit. Uh— you can just shoot us a message. Let us know where you are, and uh— we’ll uh— connect you with whomever is closest. Uh— and that’s probably the best way to figure out where one is near you. And uh— the other thing, that what to do if I don’t have an ARX near me? Or I don’t have a wherewithal to go use one, what do I do? Uhm— the first thing I would do is uh— go check out either the book, Body by Science.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmn—

Jim Keen: Uh— you get an audiobook or regular book, whatever your flavor. Uhm— read that book as just a primer. If you know nothing about strength training or even if you have a little bit of a background, still, read that book as a good primer on…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmn—

Jim Keen: …what to do and why. So, that’s the first thing. That’s great. And then, uhm— whatever routine you end up doing, based on what you learn in that book, I guess the important thing to realize is uh— a misconception that we fight with all the time is the idea that more is better. And people think that more is better because they imagined that the benefit, the good part happens during the workout, while they’re burning the calories, while they’re on the bike, while they’re doing the thing that’s when the good stuff is happening, and that’s just not true. The workout is the stimulus, and the adaptation that we want, the muscle development, the bones, tendons, ligaments, all that— that happens while we’re resting and recovering. So, when you go to the gym, just realize the good stuff isn’t happening in the gym, and so, more is not better. And basically, uh— for some more specifics, I would just recommend that each workout be a full body workout, just for return on investment purposes. And while it is, you can do six days a week and do the bro split. Mondays, chest, then Tuesdays…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Jim Keen: …biceps and back in Wednesdays.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.

Jim Keen: You could do that but I— we’re talking about return on time investment, and less wear and tear on the joints. And I’d say, two times per week max. Uh— just go, like the workout should fit around your life, not the other way. So, uh— a full body routine that prioritizes multi joint movements. So, compound, multi joint movements, uh— like a leg press or a belt squat, or something similar for the lower body, uh— a horizontal push pull/pull and a vertical push/pull. That’s a good basic starter routine. Those five sort of things constitute a full body workout. And uh— my basic recommendation would be trying to again find the minimum necessary dose. The minimum effective dose uh— would be one set of each thing. And if you’re using free weights and you’re not being too hard-core about it, okay. Do a second set of each thing. That’s fine. Not gonna kill anyone. Uh— just do a couple of rounds of that. Select the weight that permits between eight and 12 repetitions. If you get to 12, make a note to increase the weight for next time. And then, slowly, you increase the weight. Increase the weight. Always keeping between that eight and 12 repetition range, and that will produce an amount of weight that’s not dangerous and hard to handle.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Jim Keen: And is not unmeaningful either. So, it’s a good sort of happy place. And even that, that’s like your 80-20. That will get you a lot of the [crosstalk] benefits in strength training. And once you have more competence, and once you’re convinced that it’s safe, then you’re into the groove of it after three or six months. Then you can branch out and do as you like. But that’s good to build a base. If you don’t have access to uh— an ARX machine.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And you like a longer contraction. So, like a seven-second kind of contraction. So, you’re really stimulating the lactic acid and the growth hormone. Is that correct?

Jim Keen: Yeah. I— [crosstalk] I’d say—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That longer contraction?

Jim Keen: Yes, so long as your eliminating momentum.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally…

Jim Keen: You’re in control…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …and

Jim Keen: …of the weight the whole time and there’s so—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And if someone’s used to using momentum at all, you don’t need nearly as a heavy of a weight. Because when you just take away all momentum, it’s amazing how much harder that weight becomes to push.

Jim Keen: Right. Precisely right. So, if the goal is to lift some weight, you’re gonna— yet the goal is external. I’m gonna do whatever I can to use momentum and lift this weight. But, you have to reverse your perspective. The goal is in your body, and we’re just using the weight as a tool. I don’t care how heavy the weight is. I care what’s happening in the body. So, to your point exactly. You can use far lower amounts of weight, which makes it safer, which is good uh— ‘cause weights are inherently dangerous. So, yeah. Less weight and really control it uh— ‘cause the goal is in here not extra.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right. So, some kind of uh— a push or pull something in the— in the frontal plane here, where you’re pulling down straight, uh— a hip extension, a knee extension, uh— just things like that, that really hit all those different factors there. Is that true?

Jim Keen: Yeah. The most consolidated routine you could do and have like kind of your 80-20 effect would just be like a leg press, a chest press and a row. Even if you did those three things intensely and focused, uhm— I’d maybe call it— Yes, 70-30. It’s better than sitting at home. It’s— it’s great for longevity and all the rest. You can add two more upper body movements to that uh— to make it a little more rounded out. And then, if you wanted to expand that, then you could talk about some of the single joint things like leg extension or leg curl or uhm— typically, it’s young males, but uh-huh— people will just— yeah, do some biceps, do some triceps, rows— Don’t let bros skip biceps. So—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly.

Jim Keen: …to be fired up

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly.

Jim Keen: Oh— Oh, it’s the guns every now and then. And uh— get your life together like that. And uh— but yeah. So that— so that’s what I would recommend. Have. Try to make each workout be uhm— worth your trip. Full body workout, focus. Be intense but safe.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Awesome, Jim. Is there anything else you want the listeners to know…

Jim Keen: What up—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …that you think is important?

Jim Keen: Yeah. I— I think the uh— the— the ARX— I’ve kind of explained what we’re doing and why we’re doing it, and uh— I—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Jim Keen: Of course, all about that. I changed careers to be part of the ARX movement. [crosstalk] So—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Jim Keen: So, I’m into that. But as far as uh— a take away for your listeners- ‘cause I keep forgetting it myself, how important it is to prioritize sleep.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm—

Jim Keen: And no matter how much you learn about it, seemingly— at least this is me. Maybe I’m just slow. Uh— and no matter how much you learn about it, it tends to just eventually get neglected until you wake up one day, and you’re like, “Why am I eating 30 minutes before bed? And how come I’m going to bed at 11:30 after watching some movie, and how come I’m— uuh— I needed to go to bed earlier. I need to get the electronics out of the room. I need to make it pitch black in here. I need to not go out so often.” Or whatever you need to do, when you start sleeping really well, uh— everything is better. Your decision making is better. Your thinking is better. So— And you grow better from your ARX workouts. Uh— and your growth, your sleep— That’s where more is better. That’s where the good stuff happens. Whatever [crosstalk] change you want, your body is produced while you’re sleeping. So, get the hell to bed. It’s my— my main advice.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Make sense. So, we got growth hormone tapping out between 10:00 PM and  2:00 AM, so get in bed. The hours on the other side of midnight count for double, so keep that in the back of your mind. Maximize your hormone so you can grow outside your workout. Love it, Jim. Alright, man. Hey, appreciate it. arxfit.com. Checkout the Facebook page as well. And Jim, can people follow you anywhere?

Jim Keen: Uh— Well, my personal uh— Facebook page tends to get a little wild and willy. So you can follow me.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It does. [laughs]

Jim Keen: As you know.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I know.

Jim Keen: So, you could follow me. Uh— I’m the guy who does the ARX posts for Facebook. But…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, yeah.

Jim Keen: …of course, family show language. And so, uh— you can follow me at ARX’s Facebook page. It’s probably the best way to get my takes on uh— on the latest and greatest in the health and wellness, and technology uh— field.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I love when you managed it, and you have people that have silly posts and you— you kind of comment [JIm laughs] on it, and then you took a screenshot of it. Oh, that is just—

Jim Keen: I— I am not immune uh— to messing with the trolls. Uh— I— I got to avoid boredom too, you know. I— I got to— I got to keep myself busy, so that’s always a fun time.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You should never feed the trolls. I love it, man. Very cool. Well, Jim, appreciate it.

Jim Keen: [laughs]

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Jim Keen. Uhm— phenomenal. We’ll have the show notes up, and everything below. Any last link to send the listeners at all?

Jim Keen: Just arxfit.com. We have a bunch of videos and resources there. Check us out. Reach out via personal message of the Facebook page. It’ll be me answering that message. So, if you uh— have any questions for me, personally, just shoot  ARX Fit a message and I’ll get it. I— and then uh— yeah that’s— that’s probably best. I look forward to hearing from everybody.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And if you want to troll Jim, you’ve been warned. [laughs]

Jim Keen: [laughs]

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Thank you for coming to the show, Jim. Really appreciate it. You take care.

Jim Keen: Right. Uh— thanks, Justin.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Bye.


Dr. Jack Kruse

Garry Taubes

“The Smarter Science of Slim” and “The Calorie Myth,” by Jonathan Bailor

Jason Fung

High Intensity training by Ellington Darden, PhD.

“The Nautilus Exercise Principles” by Arthur Jones, founder of MedX

“Body by Science” by Dr. Doug McGuff and John R. Little

The Ghost car in Mario Kart

Keith Norris’ May 2017 Interview in Just in Health


Brain Hacking and Brain Supplements – Podcast #25

Do you suffer from memory lapses, mental exhaustion, or problems with concentration?  These can be linked to several factors like lack of sleep, stress, lifestyle and diet or even menopause for women.

Find out in this podcast how one can overcome brain fogginess and improve mind performance through proper diet of good fats, sleep and the right exercise for brain health.  Learn more about PQQ, CoQ10 and other brain supplements as well as some adaptogenic herbs that powerfully boost one’s cognitive function.

In this episode we cover:

01:58   What Dr. Justin ate for breakfast

03:30   Building the right foundation

08:17   MCT

27:41   PQQ, CoQ10, Omega 3

42:52   Caffeine Benefits








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Baris Harvey:  Welcome to another awesome episode of Beyond Wellness Radio.  In today’s show we are going to talk about brain hacking and brain supplements and overcoming brain fog. But before we dive in to the show today let me tell you about our newsletter.  Make sure that you go to beyondwellnessradio.com and hop on the newsletter.  By going on to the newsletter, you will be the first to see all of our updates on our podcasts and any other awesome information that we have for you.  Also I want to make sure that you guys go to justinhealth.com which is Dr. Justin’s site where he has all of his content and information for you and he also has a video series on thyroid health that you guys should definitely dive into.  It is loaded with information and helpful tactics that you can start implementing today.  So make sure you go to justinhealth.com and signup for the newsletter.   Also go to reallyhealthynow.com and you can sign up to the newsletter as well and you can be ready to receive the first copy of my book as soon as that is done.  So that is what is up for today.  So Dr. Justin, how is it going?

Justin Marchegiani:  Baris, it is going great today.  We have a nice little morning here.  Just running a current across my wrist here to help stimulate some collage repair.  Just hit a little bit of PQQ which is a compound to help up regulate mitochondrial function and actually repair mitochondrial neurons.  So I am doing that to make sure I am in the zone today.   And breakfast today was just four eggs sunny side up and then a little bit of protein powder afterwards with some butter and MCT in my coffee.  How about you?

Baris Harvey:  Yes awesome.  I drove down to the Bay Area this morning. So I actually had some Trail Mix, had some organic beef jerky and had some cashews, almonds and a little bit of cranberries.  So that was my snack for this morning.   

Justin Marchegiani:  I am glad to hear you had no oatmeal on your Trail Mix.

Baris Harvey:  No oats.  None of that.  No.

Justin Marchegiani:  Good.  That would definitely be a Paleo.

Baris Harvey:  Yes.  Right, exactly.  So you mentioned the PQQ that you are taking.  In today’s show, we are going to talk about kind of like this brain hacking, this is kind of like a big thing.  But even for people that, let us say they are trying to hack it, optimize brain function.  There are a lot of people today that have like brain fog or overall issues.  Let us help all these listeners out and try to find a way to remove some of those things that are blocking their brain from doing what it should be able to and get people able to focus, able to sustain a long day, able to fully utilize, I believe, which is our super power as humans, is our brain power.

Justin Marchegiani:  Absolutely.  And before we go into that 100%, I think it is important that there are some great supplements out there and I am all into bio‑hacking and tweaking certain things.  But I just want to say if you do not have the foundations right, you are just going to be pissing your money away on a lot of expensive stuff.

Baris Harvey:  Uh-huh.  Yes.

Justin Marchegiani:  So like I get results with my patients because I am annoying about the foundations.

Baris Harvey:  Yes.

Justin Marchegiani:  So let us go over like some of the foundation.  So if you are having brain fog, brain fog is typically a cause of inflammation.  So if you are having inflammation just look at the first couple of things.  Just do an audit first of physical stress.  Are you over exercising?  Are you not getting enough exercise?  Personally, my biggest thing on exercise is the fact that it helps with brain stimulation.  It helps with increasing a protein known as brain-derived neurotrophic factor which helps increase synaptic activity, which means it helps connect brain neurons together, right?

Baris Harvey:  Yes.

Justin Marchegiani:  If your brain neurons communicate faster and better, you are going to be able to have better brain power.  You are going to be able to mile on it better.   You are going to be able to create better habits faster.  You are going to be able to perform better.  Have better stamina, better focus.  Be in the zone longer and easier.  So again, I look at things like exercise is more like stimulating brain as well as hormones.  Okay that is like one foundation.

Baris Harvey:  Uh-huh.

Justin Marchegiani:  Do not exercise too much because chronic cortisol from over exercising will eat away parts of your brain.   Dr. Robert Sapolsky over at Stanford, he wrote the book, “Why Zebras Don’t Get Ulcers.”  He is kind of a stress doctor.  He looks at the stress response from one species to another.  And what he has found is that excessive levels of cortisol literally will eat away at the hippocampus.

Baris Harvey:  Uh-Huh.

Justin Marchegiani:  The hippocampus is there in the brain, the bottom part of the brain that helps control memory and learning.  So again let us get cortisol modulated so we are not eating away our hippocampus.  So on the physical stress side of things, do not over exercise.  Choose smart exercise.  So smart exercise could be anything depending where you are at, right?  If you are obese and you are not doing much just get out walking a little bit.  Get out and do some isometric movements where you are doing the isometric lunge or an isometric squat with really good form.  If you are already today are on some resistance training, it will be good using functional movements, right?  Squatting, pulling, pushing, bending, things like that are going to be great.  And then if you are there as well, you can also add in some high intensity interval training using whatever modality you want.  Whether it is rowing or biking, running or sprinting.  You do not have to make exercise that complicated.  Now if you are training for sport specific things because you are an athlete and you are competing, well, obviously you have to do the movement pattern that you are going to be competing in or choosing movements that are going to translate to performance on the field.  So we are not getting in to sport specific stuff.  We are just getting into how can you make your muscles and your body perform well, physically.  But also, how can you do it so you can choose movements that will mentally allow you to perform well and make more BDNF.

Baris Harvey:  Definitely.  I think that is a great portion because like you said before, we have to understand that our bodies were designed to move.  And not only is movement just going to help us burn fat or build muscle but there is also some brain activity that is going on.  It is the communications with the neurons between your muscles.  It is like you mentioned earlier, you have a stimulation thing currently running to your wrist and it is using the electricity and stimulating your muscles.  And we have to understand like those are brain chemicals that kind of manipulate our muscles.  And having that awareness is really a good way to stimulate our body and also not to overdo it though and not to stress your body out because it is easy to do that as well.

Justin Marchegiani:  Exactly.  Like for instance, I am stimulating production or increase blood flow which will hopefully translate to additional collagen being lined down and to help build up cartilage.  But I am also sleeping really well.  I am also eating a very anti-inflammatory, I am eating, you know, high anti‑inflammatory fats.  I am also taking extra collagen support so I have the building blocks, right?  A lot of bio-hacking devices they stimulate.  But the problem is if you do not have the building blocks then it is like whipping a tired horse.  So if you combine the two it is almost like magical.

Baris Harvey:  Yes, definitely.  You just mentioned too, you are eating a really good diet and that plays a big role.  And there are a lot of foods that can be beneficial.  One food in particular when it comes to like fats, it is something that you often put into your coffee every day.  Or even like cook with Caprylic acid from like coconut oil, right?

Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.

Baris Harvey:  Can you tell us about how MCTs can be beneficial to our brain?

Justin Marchegiani:  Okay.  So MCT is the medium chain triglycerides.  You are going to get some MCTs in coconut oil.  The problem is, MCTs typically consist of Capric and Caprylic acid, 8, 10 and 12 carbons in length.  Those are kind of your medium chain triglycerides.  The problem is most of your MCTs is going to be in the 12 carbons.  So taking in supplemental MCT that is 8 to 10 carbons primarily, you are going to primarily get 8 and 10 carbons in MCT.  So people say, “Oh, well you get enough MCT in coconut oil.”  In my opinion, that is nonsense because you are not getting the beneficial ones, the 8 and 10 carbon ones.  So using MCT is going to be awesome.  Using it in your coffee is great.  So there was a research done at Harvard, Dr. Veech and he has done a lot of research on ketogenic diets.  And basically, ketogenic diet since your body is using various ketones whether it is acetoacetic acid, acetone or hydroxybutyrate, things like that, your brain can actually run on them.  He has done research to show up to 80% of your brain can run on them.  So there are a couple of ways when you think about it, right?  Some people may benefit cutting their carbs super low.  That is one theory.  That is one approach that may work.  Some people may do a cyclical ketogenic where they go low carb, you know, 20, 30, 40 grams of carbohydrates.  And that is a little debatable because Ben Greenfield has done some research showing that he has been able to keep his carbs at 200 and still be in ketosis.    So it really depends upon your activity level.  And so we have the dietary aspect but we can also just put something like MCT which will easily shove downstream into ketones.  So we can still have the benefits of ketones even if we are not going super, super, super low carb.

Baris Harvey:  Yes.   Definitely.

Justin Marchegiani:  So that is one aspect.  And he has found that the brain can run very efficiently off these MTCs and some areas of the brain actually love it.  So you kind of get the same kind of physiology that you would get with fasting.  So a lot of research has shown that your brain does better, you know, fasting sometimes.  That is kind of where the whole school of thought of intermittent fasting or low calorie dieting has shown beneficial effects.  In my opinion, you can try to tap in to some of these benefits by using MCT in your coffee to get some of these benefits that, you know, so you do not have to starve yourself.  So you actually feel full and satiated and not tired and not down regulate your thyroid because low calorie diets will mess up your thyroid.  Just go to PubMed and type in low calorie diets and hypothyroidism and you will see a whole bunch of studies on that.  So that kind of gives you just the bird’s eye view off the top there.

Baris Harvey:  Okay.  Cool.  So we are not going to be glucose deficient, are we?

Justin Marchegiani:  Well, your brain needs about 20 grams of glucose a day to function.  So if you are getting enough fat in your body and you are keto‑adapted, meaning your body is used to running off with ketones, you are not going to have a problem.  Although I do recommend if you are doing more glycolytic exercise, you are probably going to feel better getting a little bit of sweet potato in your diet.  A little bit of safe starch in your diet, if you are doing a CrossFit style of movement.  So it really depends.  Like some people who are, I would say, they are carbohydrate sensitive, they cannot tolerate much carbohydrates.  You are better off starting ketogenic and not going into some of these high intense glycolytic movements for at least a long period of time because you want to get your body keto-adapted.  And you can create lots of cravings if you are doing glycolytic movements for longer than 45 minutes of an hour.  Like if you are someone who maybe has metabolic syndrome and you are just jumping into a CrossFit, may not be the best thing for your blood sugar and your metabolism off the bat.  A good ramp up and may be a good way of doing it and starting ketogenic can be a good way to really feed the brain with those ketones that it may need.

Baris Harvey:  Yes, awesome.  We are talking about getting the foundation right.  And you also mentioned that is only the real big reason why you are successful with your clients.  It is because you harp a lot on the foundations on the basics.  Make sure you remove the inflammatory foods and give them the anti-inflammatory, antioxidants foods into the diet.

Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Baris Harvey:  I think one of those foods that people know that are good for the brain and like the more agriculturist I go, berries, berries are really good.  They are good for your brain because of their antioxidants.

Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.

Baris Harvey:  What are some other just good foods that we should be adding to our diet like that might have really good flavonoids or other kind of brain nutrients or minerals that we might not be getting but we should?

Justin Marchegiani:  So one, you know making sure you are eating foods that are going to stabilize your blood sugar.  Because blood sugar dips are actually going to cause problems in your brain, right?  You are going to increase your microglial cell activation with low blood sugar dips.  So I would say not just what to eat but eating the right amounts of proteins, fats and carbohydrates for your body to have stable blood sugar for at least 4 or 5 hours.  Because that will prevent dips in blood sugar and those dips in blood sugar will create hormonal cascades that will again, you will go into a low blood sugar dip that will activate the adrenal glands to produce adrenalin and cortisol.  And that will activate the microglial cells in the brain to produce glutamate and you will basically starve the frontal cortex for blood.  And then again that is why a lot people do stupid things with low blood sugar.  There are actually a couple of studies on this.  They have done studies of violent crimes where they find a lot of violent crimes are done with super low blood sugar, crimes of passion.  Because you got about, I want to say, one tenth of a second to have the frontal cortex clamp down on the impulse of punching the guy that you are really pissed off at.  So if your brain is starving because your blood sugar is dipping up and down because you are going into reactive hypoglycemic drops of blood sugar, it is just going to make you stupid and make you do stupid things.

Baris Harvey:  Yes.   So basically that part of your brain, your, you know, the prefrontal cortex is going to be basically turned off and your decision making, basically the things that makes us human, right?

Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.

Baris Harvey:  This is going to be turned off and we are just going to be a baboon, literally.

Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.  You are like literally functioning or relying upon the brain stem, right?  The reptilian brain to make very reactionary stupid decisions.  So like the concept that I am referring to is reactive hypoglycemia.  That is when you eat potentially too much carbs for your body to handle.  Your body reacts, that is why it is called reactive.  Your body reacts by spitting out a whole bunch of insulin and drops that blood sugar too low.  When that blood sugar is too low the fight or flight nervous system has to turn on.  And that turning on activates parts of the brain that can create glial activation which is like the immune cells in the brain.  And that can activate inflammation or starve out blood flow to the frontal cortex and that can prevent you from making good decisions.

Baris Harvey:  So do not eat the little chocolates when that is on the counter when you are buying a car decision or any of those kinds of things.

Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.

Baris Harvey:  And make sure you are well-fed.

Justin Marchegiani:  Yes, that is why I am a big thing of having breakfast in the morning.  Even things like good coffee and butter and fat.  If you are under a lot of stress and maybe you are exercising, too, you know have a little bit of protein and fat together in the morning.  You know, not just fat but have a little bit of protein as well.  Because protein you can always convert some of those amino acids into glucose via gluconeogenesis.  Your liver can take some of that protein and just cleave it off and create some glucose from it.  And when you go to gluconeogenesis, it is a nice time-release form of glucose.  It is time released so you actually get nice slow and steady supply.  So you do not get this reactive hypoglycemic drop afterwards.

Baris Harvey:  Okay, perfect.  So we want to make sure we are stabilizing our blood sugar.  We do not want making irrational decisions.  Another thing, that is probably a beneficial one that you ate this morning are eggs, right?  Eggs have B vitamins and choline.  You test a lot of people in your practice.  Are you seeing some people you know that seems like such an easy fix.  People that are B vitamin deficient then they can easily take maybe some B vitamins and making sure that they are getting some darker meats or some organ meats and making sure that they are getting the B vitamins covered and helping their neurons.

Justin Marchegiani:  Right.  So regarding the patients and the practice, we may see on a CBC some of their indices high.  These are like the markers like the MCH, MCHC, MCV, RDW.  These are key markers that are indicative of B vitamins issues like B6, B9, B12.  May run organic acid test and find some of these B vitamins low.  I am seeing a lot of people with methylation defects especially the MTHFR reductase defect.  So we are using some specific folate that has been converted to an L-isomer form so that it can be converted better to folate.

Baris Harvey:  Uh-huh.

Justin Marchegiani:  Obviously we have seen a lot of people with gut issues too that have damage and they are not able to absorb B12 as well.  So it really depends.  I mean, people if they are eating a bad diet high in refined sugar, they are automatically going to have B vitamin issues because you need B vitamins to absorb and metabolize sugar.  And if the sugar that is coming in does not have B vitamins with it you are going to become deficient.  And again, most of the time the people eating good quality grass-fed meat, organic vegetables, safe carbohydrates for their metabolic demand, they are going to be okay and we will kind of follow up with a good general multivitamin, with some really good soluble B vitamins there.  Or we will look at the blood work or the organic test and we may supplement with some individual ones depending on their unique deficiencies.

Baris Harvey:  Yes.   Interesting because it is funny too often times we were so just like just poor forms of B vitamins inside of like the five-hour ENERGY or something like that.  And this is just usually like caffeine and B vitamins but it is like three or five dollars per dose.

Justin Marchegiani:  Yes, you definitely get what you pay for when it comes to supplements.  And I have tried to research the best companies where you are going to get the best absorption and the best bang for your buck.  So going with good companies is definitely the way to go.  And saving money on it I mean you are better off not taking anything, for sure.  But you know, supplements they are meant to supplement a good diet.  They are not called replacements.  They are not designed to replace the diet.  They are meant, you know, you take them with your grass-fed meat and your really good spinach salad or your safe starch.  It is meant to supplement.

Baris Harvey:  Uh-humm.

Justin Marchegiani:  Like nails.  The food is like the board and the nails are like the vitamins.  So we want to use good vitamins to hold everything together.

Baris Harvey:  Yes.  Definitely.  One thing, we should probably bring up briefly is sleep.  And we have done a whole episode on sleep before.  So people make sure if you guys have not heard go back into our archives and make sure that you, or just even start to go to YouTube and search Sleep Beyond Wellness Radio.  When we talked about sleep and how it affects the brain and people should know this immediately but for some reason we still find ourselves or many people, not necessarily me all the time, sleeping 6 hours and then wondering why we are having this crash in the middle of the day and you know, go into Starbucks and try to get coffee.  Briefly just to talk about again how important sleep is but also how it affects your mental focus.

Justin Marchegiani:  Sleep is vitally important.  I got an email from Ben Greenfield this week and he posted a really cool blog via WellnessFX and he also put a really cool info graphic on board too.  And some really good quotes in this article and we will put it on the show notes, from athletes regarding their sleep time.  So for instance, I got a couple of quotes here.  Let me pull it up.  So Usain Bolt, right?  Fastest guy in the world says, “Sleep is extremely important to me.  I need to rest and recover in order for the training I do to be absorbed by my body.”  That is one person right there.  Roger Federer gets on record 11 to 12 of sleep at night.  LeBron James 12 hours of sleep at night.  Again there are studies that after four days of restricted sleep athletes’ maximum bench press drops 20 pounds.  Studies have shown split second decision making ability reduced by about 5%.  And again tennis players with adequate sleep get about 42% boost in the accuracy of their shot.  So again sleep is very, very important.

Baris Harvey:  Yes.   Check this out.  You know I have mentioned to you before my football team, we would work out like 6 am and which means we get to the facility..

Justin Marchegiani:  So the worst thing a coach can do.  That is the stupidest thing.  It is like you got this mindset in sports where it is like toughness comes from like crucifying yourself.   It is just stupid training.  It is just like, well, you can just be better by having willpower and not using our physiology to help us get better.  I am sorry I interrupted.

Baris Harvey:  Yes.  I know, that is totally true.

Justin Marchegiani:  It drives me nuts!

Baris Harvey:  But check this out.  I forgot why we did this.  I am glad that we did.  But I think we had our bye-week.  Last week we decided not have our 6 am lift in the morning and basically I got to sleep in a little bit.  And we instead worked out in the afternoon around 3 o’clock when your body is most prime to do so.  This was the first week in about six weeks that I remember being like physically sore.  When my legs felt sore in a good way it is as if like, “Oh, okay I am building muscle because all my other workouts were pretty inefficient because I am tired.  How am I supposed to perform this way?”  So I just thought it was interesting.  Sleep is vitally important when it comes to not just training but your mental performance and almost every aspect in life.  So sometimes people you want to push harder, push harder but if you are not sleeping I mean, you are kind of wasting your time and you could even be hurting yourself.

Justin Marchegiani:  Absolutely.  It is just trying to work harder not smarter.  I mean, I remember in high school because I play football and I remember doing conditioning at the very end of practice.  It is like the stupidest thing.  It is like let us just ingrain in our body poor motor patterns, right?  Let us just work on and develop our skills and poor motor pattern.  It is just like silly.  You much rather keep the conditioning separate and the fine tune motor skills when you are prime so you can really build up those motor pathways.  Especially in certain sports, I remember in football for instance, we have linemen and linebackers running you know 30, 40, and 50 yards sprints.  But it is like wait a minute, each play, what are you running on average?  5 to 10 yards?  I mean the lineman is running 2 or 3 yards.  So it is like, why are we not doing sport specific movement that actually carries over?  And so much of these coaches, they are just doing things to do it not because it correlates and actually really makes sense.

Baris Harvey:  Yes.  I probably should not be doing the same thing my 290 pound teammate is doing.  He is probably lifting stuff super heavy and maybe 10 yards sprints at the most for him.  Whereas I can probably go a little bit farther, right?

Justin Marchegiani:  Absolutely.

Baris Harvey:  So super important.

Justin Marchegiani:  And I do not want to burst anyone’s bubble but I have treated a handful of college athletes, professional football players and such and that is one sport I would more than likely, I could change my mind, but I will not allow my kid to play.  I see lots of neurological deficits.  I think you are going to be seeing an epidemic in the next 10 or 20 years of massive amounts of brain injuries.  So if you are an athlete, man!  Especially football, you need to be on magnesium.  You need to be getting lots of ketones being produced.  So ideally either lower carb.  But if it is glycolytic stuff, you want to get some MCTs in there, PQQ, CoQ10, magnesium is really important.  Again if you ever get head injury, one of the best things you can do is to go low calorie the next day or two to help increase cellular autophagy, to help clean up the damage.  And those are a couple of things sleep is used.  Like the last week, I have been going to bed at 10 o’clock and getting up at 7:30 to 8 o’clock and I have been feeling so much better because I have been listening to my body.

Baris Harvey:  Yes.   I mean the past week I had to take a nap in the middle of the day because I was so exhausted.  But, man, I just felt so much better and so much more productive.  And this will mean l will listen to my body and say, “Hey, you need to, you know, shut it.”  And I mean that is what it feels like and what happens sometimes when people end up getting sick because they are evading sleep.  They are not giving anything back to their body and their body just does not know it.  I am going to have to shut you down for you.  And when you get sick and then we are going to force ourselves to stay in bed, you know what I mean?

Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.

Baris Harvey:  So, I just felt like I did not get to that point but I was like, “You know what?  It is the middle of the day but I am going to take an hour nap before I go back to school.”  And I felt like so much better.  Yes, so sleep is super important.  It is no wonder why you might be cranky or grumpy, you cannot even focus.  And also like we talked about like the blood sugar regulation and how that throws off your decision making, your mood and your focus.  If you are not sleeping that is also going to mess with your metabolism and you are going to crave more of those things.  So it just makes it so much harder.

Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.

Baris Harvey:  So you eat the right foods, you eat some more fat.  You want to balance it and make it balance per who you are individually.  But if you go to sleep more and you eat the right foods and preferably if you can some more fat it makes it a lot easier to regulate those cravings.

Justin Marchegiani:  Exactly.  Exactly.  So kind of my thing is, we have macronutrient quality.  I am macronutrient agnostic, meaning you just change the ratios up and down according to your needs.  Now my bias is low carbohydrate, high fat, moderate protein.  That is my bias because I kick ass there.  And I find a lot of people who are metabolically damaged kick ass there.  And a lot of people have been on a low fat movement so they just do so much better getting high quality fat in their diet.  But from there, there are some people that are athletes that are super, you know, healthy already and they may be able to handle a little bit of white rice or some sweet potatoes or a little bit of glucose from other safe starch sources.  So again, it is to figure out what works for you.  I ran people low carb, super low and then we ramp up and we will taper up exercise and we will see how we feel.  We may find that we do not want exercise that much and we just go super low ketogenic and then cycle in and out every three or four days.  And figure out kind of where you feel your best.

Baris Harvey:  Definitely.

Justin Marchegiani:  So what do you think?  Are you ready to talk some supplements a little more?

Baris Harvey:  Let us talk some supplements.  Let us get to the fun part.  We always got to make sure that we will do the right things first.  Because like we said supplement is a supplement.  That is the whole point of it.

Justin Marchegiani:  Okay.

Baris Harvey:  But they are fun and that is why, you know, that is what we shoot at and keep at.  Let us talk some supplements.  Of course you talked about vitamin B12 as one of those basic things that should be covered.  You know, make sure that you are getting that.  Also you want to talk about this, it is not necessarily that new but it is starting to get a lot more coverage, the PQQ.

Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.

Baris Harvey:  Let us talk about that and how it affects mitochondrial health and overall brain function.

Justin Marchegiani:  Right.  So PQQ is Pyrroloquinoline quinone   PQQ.  It was created in the 80’s I want to say or discovered in the 80’s basically through like a fermentation reducts reaction of a certain B vitamin in the gut bacteria.  There are a couple of things.  It helps with the regeneration of the mitochondria.  And mitochondria are like these little powerhouses of your cells.  They are like little furnaces that help create energy or ATP which is like the cellular currency that your body runs on.  It also helps regenerate mitochondria and that is important because guess what?  A lot of the medications that people are on, yes, they actually damage their mitochondria.  And a lot of the drugs and the pesticides and the environmental chemicals that are out there, yes, they also damage your mitochondria, too.  So a little bit of PQQ will be something that could be very helpful.  It is typically combined with CoQ10.  There are a couple of brands that are out there.  Dave Asprey has got a good one.  I have used his.  Typically the dose is between 10 to 40 mg depending on where you are at.  Like today I am already on 20 mg.  I will take another 10 hits after here just to keep me really focused and plowing through my day.  Let me think here.  My train of thought was just lost for a second.  I need some more PQQ. (Laughs)

Baris Harvey:  Uh-huhh.

Justin Marchegiani:  So yes, 20 to 40 mg tends to be a really good place.  There have been some studies in the show that helps with Parkinson’s.  It is also neuroprotective and helps with oxidative stress.  And oxidative stress is kind of, you know, the damage from free radicals which are little guys that come around and knock off little pieces of your DNA.  So that can be a good compound that is helpful.

Baris Harvey:  Yes.  Definitely.  Talk a little bit about CoQ10 and maybe why that is linked up with it or even why that can be beneficial itself.

Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.  So CoQ10 is a fuel used by the mitochondria as well.  It is basically kind of the coal in the mitochondrial furnace, if you will.  Very helpful.  A lot of people specially people that are on statins for instance, they are going to have problems with production of CoQ10 because the mevalonate pathway is blocked by the HMG-CoA reductase enzyme of the statin.  So just basically when the statin blocks the production of cholesterol downstream a couple of steps you are going to see CoQ10 produced.  So if you are on a statin definitely a no-no for your brain.  CoQ10 again is a cellular currency.  So if you are eating good grass-fed meats, you are having a little bit of glandular meat, you are going to do really, really well in that department.  If you are getting over 50 years old and/or you are on statin, you need to supplement with some CoQ10.  That is going to be very helpful.

Baris Harvey:  Okay.  Definitely.  Another kind of basic one that people might not forget or something that people should probably be taking anyway, let us talk about some omega 3 or like a DHA supplement.

Justin Marchegiani:  Yes, so omega 3 you have two kinds of, well actually there are three more, there are three facets.  Alpha-linoleic acid which is the parent omega 3 comes from like flax.  Not a big fan of it because only about 10 or 20% of it gets converted into your 20 carbon and 22 carbon DHA and EPA.  So not a big fan.  If you are insulin resistant or you have inflammation you will not be able to make any conversion.  So getting some quality EPA.  EPA is going to be great to tune down inflammation.  DHA is going to be a better building block for the brain.  So getting high quality EPA and DHA in will feed your prostaglandin one and three pathways.  And these pathways are your natural anti-inflammatory.  They activate certain enzymes known as the cyclooxygenase enzymes or the COX enzymes.  These are the same enzymes that Vioxx knocked too much and it caused heart and stroke problems.  But when you take natural compounds they tend to have a modulating effect not a drug effect so you do not get all the side effects.

Baris Harvey:  Yes.  Definitely.  Another one that is good for the brain and anti-inflammation is curcumin.

Justin Marchegiani:  Curcumin is excellent.  If you look at a lot of what the drug companies are doing today they are trying to create drugs that have derivative effects of turmeric or curcumin.  They are trying to create compounds that have the same effect.  Because if you look at what they are doing turmeric is having a massive effect at blocking various inflammatory mediating compounds, nuclear factor kappa beta (NF-kB), TNF alpha (TNF-a), C‑reactive protein, so very helpful.  Again if you are just taking turmeric and you have all these bad lifestyle habits, they are driving inflammation, again we kind of already addressed that.  But if you are doing your best to knock down inflammation and you are taking turmeric, it is just another way to just kick butt better.

Baris Harvey:  Yes.   Definitely.

Justin Marchegiani:  And I strongly recommend if you are going to do turmeric, I find that people do a little bit better with a liposomal turmeric.  There is a patented one by a company over at Italy; I want to say the company is Indena. The compound is trademarked as Meriva.  Yes, Mereva is great.

Baris Harvey:  Yes.

Justin Marchegiani:  Liposomal better absorption.  Again a lot of turmeric does not get absorbed to the gut.  So liposomal tend to be a better way to go.

Baris Harvey:  Yes.  Liposomal is usually really good.  You said Meriva.  I know there are other ones that might have Meriva.  And they might have black pepper in it as well because black pepper is supposed to help with the absorption.  So these are the things that you should be looking for in your curcumin supplement.

Justin Marchegiani:  Absolutely.  And also, the CoQ10 I use is liposomal as well.  I just see too many people that have gut issues so we want to use things that have a liposome, if possible because you are just going to maximize absorption, so CoQ10 with the liposome.  One of the brands that I use is called Q‑Best.

Baris Harvey:  Yes.  Definitely.

Justin Marchegiani:  I will try to put it on my store in my site so if people want to support the show they can go to the justinhealth.com/shop and they can check it out there, too.

Baris Harvey:  Yes.   Definitely.  Another one that you can find like in your breakfast, like the eggs and maybe liver, is choline.  How about maybe choline or even things that are kind of other nutrients like Alpha GPC and Huperzine?

Justin Marchegiani:  Yes, these are just awesome compounds that are going to help with brain repair.  There was a study in Italy using Alpha GPC to reduce oxidative stress post-stroke.  Excellent stuff there.  There are actually some products that I have used that combined the Alpha GPC with the PQQ. Those worked very well.  We also have compounds like Piracetam or Aniracetam.  These are from the nootropic or racetam category.  Piracetam is water soluble.  Aniracetam is fat soluble.  You take the aniracetam with your butter and coffee is a good what to do it.  But that is going to up regulate and have an effect with GABA.  It is going to have an effect with GABA.  The mechanism really is not known too well but has effects in increasing vascularity, blood flow and also somewhat acting as a stimulant but also having a calming effect.  Because GABA has that like inhibitory relaxation effect, too.  So you get this steady relaxation yet you are very focused at the same time.

Baris Harvey:  Yes.   Definitely.

Justin Marchegiani:  And you will see things like Modafinil or a compound known as Deprenyl, also Provigil.  I think Modafinil and Provigil are the same names.

Baris Harvey:  Yes.   They are the same.

Justin Marchegiani:  And they have a similar effect.  People do not know exactly how they worked.  But they activate some of these acetylcholine cholinergic ACh receptors that again affect the memory.  So, these are good things to try.  I always recommend using more of the nutrients before you go into some of these things.  Because you may find just using things like fish oil and turmeric and also one that everyone should have in their diet is magnesium.  Because our diets are so deficient in magnesium.  Just go to PubMed and type in incidence of magnesium deficiency and you will see like almost a 50% reduction in the last 50 or 60 years in our food.  So, getting a magnesium dimalate or a magnesium glycinate or if you have some brain issues you can use magnesium threonate and do a topical and have it go right to the brain and have a dampening anti-inflammatory effect.  Fair amount of studies on using magnesium to help with brain inflammation, there has been studies on rats, studies on people.  Dr. Russell Blaylock has found that when he put patients after brain surgery on magnesium, they recovered and did so much better than patients that were not put on magnesium.  And he was just looking at all of these counterparts that were not doing it.  And his patients would just get better faster just using things like turmeric, magnesium, fish oil and avoiding a lot of the oxidative stress compounds like glutamate and MSG and aspartame and Splenda.  Things that cause microglial activation, these are the white blood cells of the brain.

Baris Harvey:  Yes.  Definitely.  Definitely makes a big difference.  Now you mentioned the racetams and these are kind of like weird category of like not really a hundred percent sure if they are supplements or they are pharmaceuticals.  They are kind of in between.  And always of course people need to be smart out there when it comes to these pharmaceuticals.    But how have you gotten a chance to use some of the racetams?  And give something like your experience about it.

Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.  I have done well with Piracetam.  I pretty much top out about 800 mg.  I do well with that in my coffee.  Well, not in my coffee but I take it with my coffee.  I like PQQ 20 to 40 mg tends to do awesome.  Also a big fan of adrenal glandulars, you know.  Taking adrenal glandulars that have adrenal support tend to be helpful.  I am a big fan of adaptogenic herbs.  And these are a family of herbs that can help modulate their stress response up or down.  So if you are feeling low and you need that extra kick it will help bring you up.  If you are overly stressed it will help bring you down.  One of the biggest ones that I am just a huge fan of and then it also has a nice profile to help with sleep is Ashwagandha or withania somnifera.  Ashwagandha is actually Sanskrit, means something like to impart the strength of the horse.  So it is a pretty cool little translation.  But they did a study here.  I will kind of reiterate the study; it was double blind placebo control study.  And in 64 subjects and they were giving about 300 mg of Ashwagandha twice a day for 60 days.  So they started off the study giving people this General Health Questionnaire 28.  It is basically a questionnaire that has been kind of certified and assessed.  And it looks at anxiety.  It looks at insomnia.  It looks at social dysfunction and depression.  And then it also had an anxiety stress scale or the DASS along with it.  They looked at these various scales.  We can put it in the show notes.  But you are going to see the placebo and you will see the actual study where the groups that used the Ashwagandha right afterwards, massive, massive improvement in stress reduction with the group that were actually using the Ashwagandha.  Every single category improved.  The PSS questionnaire improved.  The GHQ questionnaire improved.  The Social Anxiety questionnaire improved.  And there was a significant difference in the modulation of the salivary cortisol as well, which is really cool.  And it was the Indian Journal of Psychological Medicine.  Again, you are not going to see much of these studies here in the US because of the competition with the pharmaceutical companies.  You are just not going to see it but you will see it in other journals.

Baris Harvey:  Yes.  And you know it is funny about that too, you mentioned a lot of these adaptogenic herbs.  But even if you go to the like the natural food store and you go the vitamin section and you grab a lot of these like brain boosting stacks.  A lot of them are going to have amino acids that kind of influence the mood, right?  Like L-tyrosine and L-theanine and GABA and all these different amino acids that are kind of like mood regulators.  And we notice that when we are in a good mood we are able to function better.  Like we mentioned before if you are grumpy if you are stuck in traffic and you are starting to yell, you are probably not going to make the best decisions.  You are not going to focus.  But when you are in a good mood, you are relaxed and you are able to focus.  And you feel better and you will make better decisions and you would eat better.  If your emotionally distressed and you have lower EQ you might end up like, “Oh, okay.  Well, maybe I am just going to eat like way too much dark chocolate and just eat a thing of ice cream and sit on my couch and watch a movie or something.”  Right?  So our mood is really important too.  And like you mentioned, there are a lot of drugs out there to cover up and change the mood.  So it is going to be hard competition in the US to kind of fight with the pharmaceutical mood enhancers.

Justin Marchegiani:  Exactly, exactly.  And let me just read the conclusion of the study.  So again, this was a double blind placebo control study.  60 days with all the various questionnaires that assessed everything and all the salivary cortisol but also looked at the physiological stress response.  The conclusion was the finding of this study suggest that a high concentration of full spectrum Ashwagandha root extract safely and effectively improves the individual’s decisions towards stress thereby improves self-assessed quality of life.  And that is the Journal of Indian Psychology and Medicine, 2012 July.  And I will shoot you over that link here, Baris and we will put it in the show notes.  But this is important.  Getting a high quality herb and again using the whole herb.   I find people tend to do better with the whole herb not just like a standardized extract but the whole herb.  And I try to make sure that the herbs that I procure are all organic and independently tested to make sure that there is no concentration of chemicals, arsenic or metal or things like that.

Baris Harvey:   Definitely.   Now one thing that we did not mention yet which is probably one that I think a lot of people use is caffeine.  So talk about caffeine real quick.

Justin Marchegiani:  So caffeine can be an awesome source, an awesome boost because it is going to help.  One, it is going to increase free fatty acid oxidation so your body is going to mobilize more free fatty acid and hopefully start to burn them for fuel.  Hence, if we are doing a little bit of caffeine in our coffee, right?  Caffeine also has same various alkaloids that are antioxidants.  If you are choosing good quality, clean coffee that is better without the pesticides and chemicals.  If we add in the butter, the butter is going to make the caffeine more time released.  Time release is good so we do not get the massive bolus of caffeine which is going to shoot up our blood sugar.  So we get more of a magic carpet caffeine ride, if you will.   And then we add in the MCT which is going to increase more fatty acid precursors in our blood stream.  It is like we got it made.  We are set.  We are stimulating more fat burning.  We are time releasing the caffeine so we are not getting a punctuated stress response but more of a time released.  And then we have the MCT which drives that precursor for ketones so our brains have a steady source of fuel for like 3 to 6 hours, it is great.

Baris Harvey:  Yes.  I have only used Piracetam before but meaning to try some of the others.  But I heard that caffeine actually helps with the racetam.  It actually helps basically make it work in a synergistic way.  So if you are taking one of those, having that Bulletproof Coffee might be even more beneficial.  So it is kind of neuroprotective and will help your brain function very well and then making sure that you are eating the right diet.  So maybe if you can pick and choose some of these other different stack that you might want to add in to try to up your performance.

Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.  And again like you got some studies here like the Cochrane Collaboration.  That is like a big review on collaborative that looks at studies and looks at med analysis.  They found like Piracetam, there was no evidence to support it.  But there are others studies out there that show positive effects with post-stroke.  There were studies out there that show positive effects following heart and brain surgery.  Positive effects with epilepsy and aphasia.  There were also positive effects with learning disability people.  So again, like why is the Cochrane Collaboration seeing a bad result?   I mean you got some studies and not all studies are created the same way.  So I think if you looked at some of the studies that were producing positive effects, you probably are going to see something different in the dosaging that it is there with the studies that were having negative effects.  And you see that a lot with herbs and nutrients where they are just using either bad quality nutrients or herbs or they are not using the therapeutic dose to get the right response.

Baris Harvey:  Yes.   Exactly.  Definitely.  Anything else that you want to add in?

Justin Marchegiani:  So with Piracetam I kind of topped out at 800 mg.  Figure out kind of where you are at.

Baris Harvey:   Same here.  Uh-humm.

Justin Marchegiani:  I could not go higher.  I just felt like crap if I went higher.  So the big ones for me are going to be Ashwagandha, magnesium, let us see here, PQQ, CoQ10.  These are all simple ones.  You can add in the Piracetam.  The foundational stuff like MCT, good quality fat in your coffee, stabilizing blood sugar and sleep.   But I also said there are other families of adaptogenic herbs that work very well.  Some like Eleuthero or Siberian ginseng works excellent.  There is a protocol and is a Russian protocol that is used in a way to allow Eleuthero to have anabolic effects in increasing sex hormones like DHEA dehydroepiandrosterone.  And that is an anabolic sex hormone that if you look in the research, it is going to have a neuroprotective effect.  Just google DHEA and neuroprotective effects and you are going to have really good support there.

Baris Harvey:  Yes.

Justin Marchegiani:  So using that, yes, that is another great way to boost up your anabolic sex hormones that will help repair your brain.  Even some people if they are adrenally stressed, taking a little bit sublingual bio-identical DHEA can be very helpful too, to protect your neurons.

Baris Harvey:  Uh-huh.   Definitely.  Same thing here.

Justin Marchegiani:  Now one more thing, too.  If you are like a female who is menopausal with that sudden drop in estrogen come menopause, because your ovaries are not spitting it out like you used to when you were cycling, that sudden drop can actually cause brain inflammation.  And estrogen tends to be very anti-inflammatory.  The estriol especially tends to be very anti‑inflammatory for the brain.  So if you are menopausal and you are starting to have some issues, look at getting your adrenals looked at as well as getting your female hormone supported to help prevent that brain stress.  And also female hormones in women who are cycling low progesterone or estrogen dominance can also create brain stress.  And if you look at progesterone, that tends to also be very neuroprotective.  You just want to make sure you take it in an appropriate way so it does not screw up your cycle.  And in my opinion, I find cycling females do not do better with progesterone cream because you cannot time it right in their cycle and its spills over the follicular phase and just messes up the timing.

Baris Harvey:  Yes.   Definitely.  And make sure that you are balancing it right.

Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.

Baris Harvey:  Yes.   Same thing here.  Doing a lot of the MCT.  Doing the different adaptogenic herbs on a daily basis.  I take turmeric.

Justin Marchegiani:  That is another good one.  Green tea.

Baris Harvey:  Turmeric and green tea.  Bacopa.

Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.

Baris Harvey:  On a daily basis.  So all of those are very beneficial and I am making sure that I am getting a lot of fats in my diet.  Usually when I am making a smoothie, my sweetener is usually going to be berries.  Like frozen wild berries.  So I am making sure that they are not like super-duper sweet.  But I am getting a lot of the lower glycemic type fruits that have more of the antioxidants.  And then at the end I might dump a couple of you know, three raw eggs in there and I am getting some of the B vitamins and choline and different parts of each of that bringing a lot of those brain nutrients in there.

Justin Marchegiani:  Yes, there was a study looking at blueberries because of the OPCs in the blueberry, the oligomeric proanthocyanidins.  They are the various anti-inflammatory bioflavonoids.  They did a study looking at blueberries and it having a reduced neurological inflammatory effect.  So that is pretty cool.  Just a handful of blueberries.

Baris Harvey:  Yes.   Exactly.  Let food be thy medicine.  And it is so crazy that we are looking at food right here and how it can be beneficial but somehow we are just like, “Oh, yes we will just wait for people to have Alzheimer’s and just give them drugs.”  Or we can just eat really, really good food.

Justin Marchegiani:  Yes, yes.  And then also I forgot to even mention one last thing, gut infections can definitely cause brain inflammation.

Baris Harvey:  Yes.

Justin Marchegiani:  Because these gut infections, whether it is SIBO producing lithocholic acid or endotoxins or mycotoxins from fungus or the various biotoxins from parasites, these can create toxins and poison the brain.  I mean, acetaldehyde produced from fungus can make you feel drunk and brain fogged.  I find with people going on an anti-candida program, if it is candida they feel significantly better.  If they have gut infections, getting rid of those infections help them feel significantly better.  If they have conditions like Lyme or Lyme co-infections like ehrlichia or bartonella or babesia or things like that, getting those infections cleared out and supporting the immune system they do feel a lot better.

Baris Harvey:  Yes.   So just making sure that we eat right for our type.  And if we can, if our body allows us, probably more fats, right?  And some of these really high quality MCT fats.  Making sure that we get enough sleep and treating ourselves right, just relaxation, making sure we have high quality sleep.

Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.

Baris Harvey:  Moving appropriately and making our muscles move and increasing our brain capacity.  Like we interviewed, Oh, my goodness! I am losing it.  The guy from… See now I am going to feel bad.  I have not eaten all these beneficial foods yet this morning so my brain is not super on point.  But I will remember it eventually.  But he talked about…

Justin Marchegiani:  Is this the guy that does the all-day energy diet?

Baris Harvey:  No, no, no.

Justin Marchegiani:  Not Yuri?  Okay.

Baris Harvey:  Not Yuri but do what you love for exercise, right?

Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.

Baris Harvey:  So if you can, if you want to play like basketball or tennis…

Justin Marchegiani:  Are you thinking about Mark Sisson?

Baris Harvey:  Not Mark Sisson.

Justin Marchegiani:  Okay.

Baris Harvey:  We interviewed him when we did..

Justin Marchegiani:  Oh, I think you are thinking of Kevin Geary from Rebooted Body.

Baris Harvey:  Kevin Geary, there you go.  Rebooted Body.  I was thinking of a fit life.

Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.  Kevin Geary, yes.

Baris Harvey:  Yes, I had the K in my head but just not, yes, Kevin Geary when he talked about do what you love.

Justin Marchegiani:  Exactly.

Baris Harvey:  Hiking and doing all these things.  Especially if you can have like some kind of sport.  You are going to be involving your brain more, right?  So these are fun ways that you can do things.  Go swimming, move your body and your brains is going to get activated and plus you are going to be put in a good mood.   So when you are in a better mood you are more motivated to do what you need to do.  I find it a lot easier when I am happy and I am in a good mood.

Justin Marchegiani:  Exactly.

Baris Harvey:  I am going to cook a really good meal that is healthy for me versus like I feel crap.  It is really easy to fall right into the trap to be like, “Well, let me just order a pizza.”  You know what I mean?  So making sure that you get these things down.  Eating the right foods, getting enough sleep, moving your body and then the cherry out on the top is once you get those foundational things put down what kind of supplement can you do to get to the next level, right?

Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.

Baris Harvey:  And like you mentioned before if you still have, you have mentioned this analogy before, you still feel that e-break.  Like you are working so hard but there are still things that are not there, you probably have some things still holding you back.  And you mentioned the gut infections.  You might be eating some food that you might be sensitive to, right?

Justin Marchegiani:  Exactly.

Baris Harvey:  So making sure that we get those out of the system.

Justin Marchegiani:  Yes, making sure if you got hormonal stress, get your adrenals or thyroid looked at.  If you got chronic infections or leaky gut stuff get your gut looked at.  Again, if your thyroid is not working well, you need thyroid hormone to activate basically cellular metabolism in almost all cells.  So if you got low thyroid hormone, you want to get that fixed because taking PQQ or even CoQ10 is not going to be the answer.  It will be a Band-Aid but would not be the real true answer.  So we have like things in the functional medicine hierarchy that should be in alignment before we do other things.  But it is just a good starting point.

Baris Harvey:  Yes, yes, yes.  Definitely, it sounds awesome.  Anything else that you want to add today?

Justin Marchegiani:  I would say everyone or anyone listening that wants to start this out and just get their diet and their blood sugar and their sleep going first, start their day with momentum.  Whether it is getting up and doing the Tabata or a high intensity interval.  Having some good protein and fat to start their day, put some MCT or butter in their coffee.  Take a little bit of magnesium or some adaptogenic herbs to start your day.  You are going to just create momentum and momentum continues to create more momentum.  And just starting your day on these upper planes so you feel like you are running downhill not running uphill is always helpful.

Baris Harvey:  Yes.   Definitely.  Thank you guys for tuning in to another episode.  Make sure that you guys go to ITunes and leave a review.  So if you go to beyondwellnessradio.com there is a button right there that you just click and it will send you right to it.  It makes it really easy.   Continue to send in your questions.  So if you guys have any questions that you want answered from any of the doctors, make sure that you send that in.  If you guys have somebody that is like a great doctor that you have or a great practitioner that you have read their book and we might have not come across them, send us an email and we will go ahead and check them out and see if we might want to bring them on the show.  Because there are always these awesome people that are popping up but you know sometimes they are not always on our radar for a while.  So if you guys have any suggestions for a guest or someone who you want to hear on the show, let us know and we will reach out to them and see if we can get them on the show.  If you guys are finding that you might have any of these e‑break like symptoms and you feel like you are not going 100% like you could be, make sure that you go to justinhealth.com and schedule yourself a consultation.  So that way, Dr. Justin can do his detective work and see if there is something hidden that you have not found that could be holding you back.  And again go to beyondwellnessradio.com and signup for the newsletter.  That is the best way to stay updated and have all of the information available to you.  So thank you guys again.  Go ahead.

Justin Marchegiani:  Thanks so much, Baris and everyone listening.  Sharing is caring.  So keep sharing the show with all of your friends and family that could benefit.

Baris Harvey:  Yes.  Thank you.

Justin Marchegiani:  Thanks have a good one.

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