Functional Medicine Approach for Urinary Tract Infections (UTI) | Podcast #356
One of the most common human infections is one that people rarely speak about. Urinary tract infections (UTI), also known as bladder infections, impact 10-20% of women at least once a year, and the specific treatment intervention is prescription antibiotics. Middle-aged women with chronic conditions like autoimmunity, dysbiosis, and hormone dysfunction are regular patients in functional medicine, so regular taking of antibiotics could pose a problem.
Dr. J and Evan talk about that when optimizing microbiome health, hormone production, and immune tolerance, it is crucial that bacteria are allowed to thrive, and antibiotic use poses a warning to that opportunity. With that said, if urinary tract infections (UTI) are among the most common conditions physicians see, and we are attempting to avoid circumvent antibiotic use, what functional medicine approaches do we have?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani
In this episode, we cover:
0:00 – Introduction
6:31 – N-Acetylcysteine in protecting the urinary bladder
11:17 – Foundational strategies in keeping the urinary tract healthy
17:10 – Antibiosis versus the association of N-Acetylcysteine, D-mannose, and Morinda Citrifolia fruit against UTI
19:11 – Men’s role in preventing UTI
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Dr. Justin Marchegiani here with Evan brand. And today we are excited to talk about functional medicine approaches to address UTI or urinary tract infections. My immune system is just a little bit under the weather, so I’ll be channeling my inner Barry White today. Really excited for that. Evan, how you doing man?
Evan Brand: Hey, pretty good. Yeah. I hope you feel better and get back to kicking butt, which you’re still kicking butt but most people would call it in but I’m glad your brain is working enough and we’re gonna get this thing done. So,
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I haven’t had a sick day over a decade. I don’t, I don’t plan to have a sick day ever.
Evan Brand: Good. Good. Good. Alright. So, now, uh, with UTI, I mean this is something that’s extremely common. We see it a lot in young children because their poop gets in to their urinary tract whether they’re wiping the wrong way or whether this is a young child that’s still using diapers, so I’ve seen it with our children, we’ve worked on our kids. I’ve seen it with a lot with the kids I worked with clinically. And then adults we see this a lot, where a lot of it is due to sexual transmission. I mean we’ve seen many cases where if we support the female, the male is the vector and the woman start to get almost resentful towards their husband because they know every time, they have sex they’re gonna end up with UTI. So then, that really affects their sexual health and their relationship. And so, today’s podcast hopefully will encourage people to take this seriously and we’ll have some strategies you can implement to get both you and your spouse if that’s what’s happening and better shaped where this is a non-issue.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Do we have any data on the semen quality, the semen quality affecting, uh, urinary tract infection of females?
Evan Brand: I’m gonna look it up but I know clinically and I know you’ve seen the same thing that we hear that story all the time of where everything is fine and then boom they have sex and then all of a sudden it’s they have a UTI.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I know in, um, in men
Evan Brand: So, here’s the study right here, semen culture and the assessment of genitourinary tract infections in the male. It says here is, uh, contributes approximately 50% of the cases.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I wouldn’t be surprised if nutrient deficiency has a lot to do with it because I know zinc is very high in semen, right? Um, very important for the health of the sperm and I know zinc also has anti-bacterial, anti-viral qualities to it. So, I wouldn’t be surprised if someone’s more nutritionally deficient they’re gonna have less zinc in the semen and that less zinc will make it harder, make it easier for bacteria and other critters to grow. So, just a thought, again, you know, we try to, you know, high level thinking, you know what’s the mechanism, look at all the downstream signals that could be one component though.
Evan Brand: Yeah. It’s talking about these different types of bacteria in this male study talking about how it plays a role in genital tract infections and some of these are natural inhabitants of the male urethra which can contaminate semen during ejaculation. So, there’s your answer.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, it’s almost like men could have a subclinical kind of UTI.
Evan Brand: Exactly.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That could be affecting it. So, if you’re a female having chronic UTI issues, you have to have your partner looked at or addressed. And we’ll talked abour natural strategies of course keeping sugar down is going to be one of the big ones because one of the biggest bacteria involved in UTI is gonna be E. coli. E. coli you’ll see high in bacterial imbalances in the gut, you can also see some, I think some Pseudomonas in some as well as some Klebsiella but it’s mostly gonna be E. coli.
Evan Brand: They were talking about E. coli and even Mycoplasma in that study, which kind of interesting.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Exactly. I know, um, yep, that’s a big one for sure.
Evan Brand: Some part, you know, some families or couples, they’ll end up just going to using condoms because obviously that’s gonna work and that’s gonna prevent the critical transfer but really the better thing is to get the health of your spouse improved and so, if you’re a female who’s done some of the conventional strategies, let’s kind of go into that now. Some of the conventional stuff that’s being done and we’ll compare it to the functional strategies but if you’ve done some of this stuff and you’re still struggling that’s when it’s time to get your spouse on board. And I know, you and I, we really like to work with couples and we like to get the whole family healthier together because we find that if we just focus on the female that her results are not as good and you know, this actually kind of carries over into H. pylori and all the work, you and I do with gut infections because we see cases where a female will use herbs successfully to eradicate certain infections in the gut. She’ll then get reinfected from the spouse even not into sharing cup, spoons, drinks, kissing and then they’ll get infected. So, as much as I can, I’m trying to bring the husband on board into these health protocols.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. So, a couple of things out off the gates that men can do to help support the women is cut the sugar out of their diet or at least drop it down to the point where you’re not growing some of the microbes in the urinary tract. That’s helpful. You can also add some things in. Like ginger is actually very helpful so maybe some ginger kombucha can be good or some really strong ginger tea is wonderful. You can also add a little bit of Manuka honey because there’s a lot of data on Manuka actually decreasing E. coli and Staph in the urinary tract. So, these are some simple kinds of easy things. You can even take some raw cranberry juice. Raw cranberry juice is very high in D-mannose, which is a large sugar molecule. The body does not digest but it creates like, uh, magnet-like effect. It’s like dragging a magnet across a surface and grabbing iron filings and pulling them out. Think of the iron filings is the E. coli and so it kind of pulls them out. So, those are some easy simple strategies for some men out of the gates is ginger, cranberry. I would say just make sure you’re hydrated enough, right solution to pollution is dilution, Manuka, and keeping the sugar down. Those are excellent strategies out of the gates.
Evan Brand: Yeah. And NAC, so we wanted to talked about NAC because NAC has been pulled from Amazon and this nutrient is getting harder to access as just a regular consumer. Fortunately, we work with professional companies, so we still have access, we still do manufacture NAC-Glutathione combos but there was a paper that we have here on NAC and the cool thing is I know you’re taking NAC right now.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep. I’m taking up to four grams a day to help biofilms if in the sinuses, it also, um helps with decreasing virus replication in case I have any viral stuff going on. I think I have personally just a little, uh, rhinovirus. That’s what I personally think and then outside of that, um, increasing glutathione, antioxidant support, biofilms, helps with mucus, so it keeps the mucus kind of flowing from. So, it’s, so it doesn’t, um, impair oxygenation and blood flow.
Evan Brand: See, if you can pull up or highlight that paper, I just shared on the screen there. You know, for folks listening you’re just missing out on this part of it, but that’s okay, we’re just trying to just show you at least maybe a couple of studies a week. That kind of
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. If you’re listening, yeah and if you’re listening here, we’ll put the video link below, so don’t worry about it, just come and check about it later and we’ll put the link down below.
Evan Brand: All right. So, this is titled, N-Acetylcysteine Protects Cells from Bacterial Invasion, I like how they call it an invasion, and Displays Anti-Biofilm Activity against Urinary Tract Bacterial Pathogens. So, long story short, they discuss using antibiotics, which were really, we can dive into that. But really that is the conventional approach with this stuff, and the problem with antibiotic resistance problems and so you’ll have women that’ll do these formulas whether it’s in this study they’re talking about cipro which is dangerous stuff. I don’t like the sound of cipro at all, for many of the potential permanent tendon issues and other side effects associated with it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Cipro’s in the fluoroquinolone family which can negatively impact mitochondria and connective tissue so if you’re gonna use antibiotic, try to use one, not in the fluoroquinolone family. Maybe amoxicillin, a tetracycline, just talk to your MD if you’re gonna go that route, to avoid that antibiotic at least.
Evan Brand: Yeah. But here’s the conclusion, NAC is a non-toxic, antibiofilm agent and can prevent cell invasion and formation by uropathogens. So, once again, NAC for the win. This stuff is incredible.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep. And again, with antibiotic is like I’m always about, let’s do the more natural things first and kind of go, least invasive to more invasive, right? And antibiotics to be the top part of the more invasive side.
Evan Brand: This is interesting, I guess this was an Australian researcher, doctor who put this study together. They’re saying here that in Australia, you know, there’s an estimated 150 million infections and this is 12% of hospitalizations.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: UTIs are?
Evan Brand: For UTIs
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow. Holy smokes.
Evan Brand: And 30% of all women have a recurrent episode of UTI and then of course the problem with the UTI, right, UTI kind of sounds like, oh it’s not too bad. But I mean this stuff gets up and infects your bladder that gets really bad and then it can even farther ascend and then infect your kidneys and then that’s when you get into a really big trouble and that’s where they talk about sepsis and some of these other literally and potentially fatal infections from UTI. So, when UTI is kind of one of those, it sounds like, it’s just like this easy, not a big deal, but it can turn into a big deal.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. So, just kind of like out of the gates, like what are the symptoms of UTIs, right obviously, like pain, pain during urination, you can see a lot of cloudiness in the urine, right? Potentially, even blood in the urine. It can have a really strong smell as well. It can even create pelvic pain in that area that pelvic or pubic area for sure. It can also move up so women have a very short urethra unlike men, that urinary tract can go to the bladder very very easy just because the distance is really short, so once it goes to the bladder, right, you’ll see pelvic pressure, you may see blood in the urine, frequent painful urination, lower abdominal discomfort and then it can continue going up from there into the kidneys. That’s where’s you’ll start noticing a lot of back pain, flank pain, um, you may notice starting to get chills and fever and maybe nausea and vomiting. And usually, once it starts to get into bladder into the kidneys, you know, you may want to look at seeing conventional medicine for the antibiotic at that point, definitely in the kidney. But, I mean, I think if people can be educated about this and be on top of it, I think you can avoid a lot of that upstage, um, conventional need for medications.
Evan Brand: Well, like many other things that we’ve talked about. Early treatment is key. So, if you can come in and hit some of this stuff hard with D-mannose, your N-acetylcysteine, we use these cranberry extracts very effectively. You and I have also used some professional formulas that contain hibiscus and parsley and horsetail. So, the goal really, I think is to try to break down into like three main categories. So, you go the biofilms, breaking components like your NAC for example or you could add in like natto, Cerezyme or some sort of other proteolytic systemic type enzymes maybe even lumbrokinase would help. So, that’s your number one is your biofilm busting. Number two, you’ve got your antimicrobials that you and I use like bearberry, barberry maybe even clove or oregano might be helpful. Silver, I think, is worth to mention. And then, I would say the third mechanism of action is the anti-adhesive properties so you’re really trying to help flush things out. So, that’s where just hydration comes in.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Mannose.
Evan Brand: And some of these herbs,
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mannose too.
Evan Brand: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Because that’s gonna pull, that’s gonna help pull the E. coli off like iron filings, right, like I gave that under the gates. So, just couple of foundational things. We’re kinda, we’re kind of hitting some of the meat here, I want to just kind of make sure we set a good foundation. So, out of the gates, women are gonna be more prone because of a couple of reasons. Okay. Number one, we talked about the intercourse and the injection of semen that may either have bugs in it or it may just essentially expose a weaker urinary tract so of course the first thing is hydration if you’re a female and getting up after the sex, getting vertical and going to the bathroom. Get that urinary tract moving, get’s some hydration in you. That’s a really good first strategy our of the gates and of course if you’re prone to having UTIs, you may wanna have a powder of D-mannose like we mentioned or some of the formulas that Evan mentioned, some D-mannose, Uva Ursi, um, parsley is excellent maybe a little bit of silver but you can just start a little bit of D-mannose, a little bit of cranberry extract and a little water and drink that before bed or you know, after a, um, interaction like that. The next thing is, if you can look at the hormones, right, hormones can play a big role so you have the high, you have the low. So, women that have very high levels of estrogen especially women that are on birth control pills that’s gonna shift the urinary tract pH based on the high levels of hormones, that can make it easier for the E. coli to grow because E. coli does not like an acidic environment. And when you started to make the environment more alkaline, right, you usually hear alkalize or die well not necessarily. The urinary tract if it’s alkaline can actually grow bugs, so birth control pills can actually cause the bug to grow to the alkalinity. You can also see the opposite, right, the goldilocks effect. When women go into menopause and their hormones drop, low hormones can also have an impact on the immune system in the urinary tract and that can cause, it can be more, you can be more prone to have UTIs if you’re menopausal with low progesterone, low estrogen because that plays a role in the environment and the immune system and the IgA levels in the urinary tract and so not too hot, not too cold, right? Not too much hormones, not too low hormones, so birth control pill on one side too much, menopausal issues, low hormones on the other side. You really need to work with a good functional medicine person to get the hormones dialed in it, may not be a simple, hey take to something that you may have to fix the hormones too.
Evan Brand: Yeah. Good call, good point, bringing that up. And that’s more of like a longer-term thing. That’s like if you’re trying to get well and stay well, that’s stuff we’re gonna be looking at. So, is it possible to come in and use some calcium D-glucarate or something like that to help that pathway and get rid of the excess estrogen? I think it could help but is it going to like acutely get you out of the UTI maybe not so I think it’s good you’re mentioning to have a plan meaning like a long-term health functional medicine health plan that then prevents you from having to do some of these acute strategies we’re talking about.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I mean there’s a palliative kind of, um, non-root cause support that we have but we try to always package in the palliative stuff with lifestyle changes that make it more holistic and make it more root-cause and then we also dive into the hormonal aspect and also, I would even say gut aspect. I’ve seen imbalances in the gut bacteria, shift and influences the urinary tract microbial balance too. So microbial imbalance in the gut has a way of shifting microbial imbalance in the urinary tract and it could be just 80% of the immune systems in the gut and that’s having a major effect. It could just be some of this stuff’s working its way down there through moving the intestinal tract. It has a way of shifting or migrating or moving in some way, you know, those kinds of things. But either way look at the gut, that’s where a lot of the immune system is. Look at the hormones, look at medications that could be influencing these things. Look at hydration, those kinds of the root, I think starting situations, you really wanna have your head wrapped around.
Evan Brand: Yeah. In regards to testing you can do this at home. They have companies that make at home UTI test strips that you can do, where you just urinate on the strip and you’re gonna be able to test your leukocytes and they have a little reference range that you can look at and basically the dark on most of these it’s purple, the darker the purple, the more severe the infection is. And we had incredible results with our daughter using some of the D-mannose, we some chewable versions, we did some of these herbs mixed in some apple sauce and we retested using these little pee strips and I want to say, I’d have to ask my wife to confirm, it was either two or three days, we completely got it from a deep dark purple indicating a very intense UTI to nothing. It was completely white. So, the brain is called azo, A-Z-O. And they also make other things, I think they make like ovulation strips and that kind of stuff for more like female health. But this urinary test strip, you’re looking at maybe ten bucks for a pack of these. So, if you do have suspicion or if you’ve had chronic UTIs, this is something that I would recommend you at home because so many times you and I hear a story of a woman having to schedule an appointment, get into the doctor. Yep, I have a UTI. It’s like you could have done that and figured it out at home in two minutes for 10 bucks. The accuracy is very very good.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. 100% And of course, um, there’s some tests if you do like a uroscopic or a microscopic urinalysis, you know, we’ll be looking at leukocytes, we’ll be looking at protein in the urine. We’ll be looking at pH, we’ll be looking at potentially bacteria. E. coli, looking at the actual microbes in the urine, that’s helpful and then obviously just from a diet, just for me a lifestyle strategy. This is obviously going to pertain more to kids, right? Just teaching your kids how to wipe the right way, right? Females, front to back, kind of common sense, but kids obviously develop blood habits and that could be a simple, easy lifestyle methodology. They can, they can fix that problem and just getting more water, more hydration, if, um, kids have a compromised immune system due to the too much sweets, um, obviously artificial sweeteners like aspartame, Splenda, those can impact the microbes as well. Those things can compromise the immune system and shift the micro, the micro, um, kind of balance, microbiota balance in the gut and in the urinary tract.
Evan Brand: Yeah. Let me show this one more thing. Do you mind bringing this, highlighting this paper?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Absolutely.
Evan Brand: There’s one more that we wanted to show people, this was just titled, Prospective study to compare they said antibiosis, they’re talking about antibiotics versus NAC, D-mannose and Morinda fruit and the conclusion of the study at the bottom here, D-mannose and NAC resulted in similar to antibiotic therapy. So, even if somebody wants to nitpick and argue, well antibiotics are like
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Better.
Evan Brand: They’re not. They’re not. Now, I’m not saying that in a severe situation where your kidneys are affected and you’re going septic, I’m not saying, I’m going to try to do this, but I’d be doing all of it, I’d be doing the mannose, the NAC maybe the antibiotic if I had to, but I mean, based on the stuff you and I’ve seen clinically based on more than what we’ve looked at in these papers alone. I mean, the cool thing about PubMed too, is you’ll be able to have related articles pull up like you could go into this one. D-mannose and Hibiscus and Lactobacillus probiotics. You know.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Probiotics are gonna have a major influence as well due to the acidification of that area. I mean, you can depend, depending on where you’re at, you could potentially even do intervaginal probiotic, you know, you could put the capsule in let it dissolves or you can mix it in, uh, with little, a little bit of aloe or shea butter or coconut oil, something that’s gonna dissolve and um, you could essentially mix it in, you know freeze the cube or refrigerate the cube so it’s solid and then insert intravaginally and that will kind of dissolve and then it will contain some of those nutrients to help support the vaginal canal and depending on where you’re at for some yeast you could even do that same thing with boric acid too. I recommend some kind of a carrier though, just so, it’s uh, just so, it’s not as abrasive if that canal or that tissue is really sore or irritated it just provides some moisture to that area as well and won’t irritate it. And if you’re unsure test the, test the moisturizer whether it’s aloe or shea butter or coconut oil, test it before you put any of the extra stuff in it, so you know, if that’s a problem at all.
Evan Brand: You know, what I’ve also seen to be beneficial, I’ve seen some homeopathic vaginal suppositories for UTIs. I don’t know much about them, but I’ve had women try them and they have worked, when everything else failed, so I think you should be open to it. And the probiotics are game changer too, as you mentioned, you could do intravaginal with the capsule it’ll just dissolve or just oral probiotics has been helpful so as you mentioned the gut, you know, that’s something we’re gonna look at. So, if we see a female who suffer with UTIs and we see she’s got a lot of issues on her stool test, you know, we can’t say directly, hey this is why you have UTIs. But if we fix the stuff in the gut, chances are high that they’re gonna suffer less and less frequently from UTIs. It’s really, really important as you mentioned you got this vaginal microbiome, you’ve got the oral, you’ve got the gut, you’ve got the skin microbiome, so, I mean if anywhere there’s dysfunction or dysbiosis going on, I think they can affect the whole system.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. And then, men play a part of the role, you know, in this whole thing. So, get your sugar consumption down, better hydration, could always throw in a little bit of ginger or cranberry kombucha that’s a really easy simple thing. Just to add in as a routine. Sometimes, it’s easier to add things to a routine than pull things out.
Evan Brand: Well, think about how many men, you and I have seen and work with over the years with gut issues so, I mean getting their gut straightened out too is gonna be my goal because I’m sure that’s gonna affect what’s we’re seeing in these paper zone like semen quality, and they’re not passing these microbes, you know, via sperm. So, man, you gotta get on board. Women just I, you know, I feel bad for them because they take a lot of the blame, they take it upon themselves like there’s something wrong with them and in many cases, there definitely are issues with the dysbiosis and the female but in the men they kinda get off the hook so, we’re calling all the men out here, you gotta get involved too, you gotta get your health involved. If you’re over there, eating pizza while your wife is sitting here cooking a paleo meal, you gotta get on board because, you know, this is a team sport here.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And you can always use a barrier method if not, right, that’s an easy way at least in the interim and then also just getting the hydration up and avoiding the sugar can make just a huge difference. Sometimes, it’s not even 100%, just an 80 20 can make a huge difference on that.
Evan Brand: I know how men are, being a man, so if the wife says, uh, honey you’re gonna have to use condoms for the rest of our, uh, sex life, I think that’ll be a, easy quick motivator to get them on board and they’re natural.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. Yeah. I find like kind of in the men sphere, there’s like two kinds of men. There’s like the men that are like biohackers that are like always into like optimal performance trying to improve and get everything kind of optimized in their health and their life and their come some guys that they kind of just, they’re a little bit more slow to the punch and they’re motivated by what the rest of their family is doing, their wife’s doing, and then their wives kind of get them on board, there’s like kind of two classes like that, I think me and you tend to be more in the biohacker class and we see a lot of biohackers that are in, right, you know, that are really motivated and they’re all about performance, performance and then some their wives are more on that side of the fence and the wives kind of get them motivated but most of the time though, once someone can see their life improve and usually if you get healthier, you don’t just improve in the urinary tract, you improve in cognitive, mood, libido, energy, digestion, so women, if you can get your husbands on board, they’re gonna see a lot of buy and hopefully other areas and hopefully you’ll be able to get them a long-lasting buy in which is really important for energy and just, you know, people being, um healthier which is important.
Evan Brand: Yeah. Well said. We can mention this comment here that came in the live chat and then we can wrap it up. We’ve kind of hinted at this but we didn’t say it directly, when we talked about UTIs, I mean a lot of times, we are referring to the bacteria but in many cases there’s a yeast component too, so there’s a fungal component, here’s the cool thing though, you and I are always using blends and these blends are not only antimicrobials but also anti-fungal, anti-yeast. So, someone in the comments here wrote that they kept getting UTIs even after getting treated until they started yeast treatment and that’s a cool thing. Think about if you come in with antibiotics, so let’s just quickly compare the conventional and functional approach. You come in and do the antibiotics, those are not anti-fungals, but if we’re using something like bearberry, barberry, berberine, cloves, silver, Saccharomyces boulardii probiotics, we’re creating an antifungal, anti-microbial, anti-parasitic protocol all in one, which is awesome because sometimes we’re killing multiple birds with the same stones and that’s why we love what we do.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% and of course, you know, a good history will kind of figure this out, based on you know, if you have a new sexual partner or not, STDs always can be a thing, so we’re looking at Chlamydia, maybe Gonorrhea, right? And so, these types of infections, I think we could probably see some improvement with some of the natural things especially if we add in silver and such but these types of things, if you’re not having results, they may require a special kind of antibiotic, if that’s at play. And so, obviously, you know, it’s gonna be history dependent, if you’re in the steady relationship then that may not be a thing or if you’re not sexually active that probably isn’t gonna be a thing but it’s always good to kinda keep that in the back of your differential list of things that you kind of work up through from least likely to most likely.
Evan Brand: Yeah. Good call. So, on that NAC paper, it actually did talk about Chlamydia and it talked about the mycoplasma and there was a couple others in there and it was talking about the anti-adhesive, anti-biofilm properties of the NAC. So, even if it were STD, I think NAC is something you’d still wanna implement.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I mean, usually you’ll gonna see some level of discharge too with some of the STD stuff but worst case, you know, you can just tested try some of the simple things out of the gates. A lot of times the history will tell you, especially if you know, if you’re, um, had intercourse in the next day, you know with your husband or partner and the next day you’re starting to feel some issues, then it’s probably gonna be on the E. coli side of the fence which is 90% of the time, so you know, if you have 90% odds with something, we’re gonna go with that out of the gates for sure.
Evan Brand: Yeah. Okay. So, testing strategies just to summarize, you could do the at-home test strips for this, we think a good stool test would be, in order to figure out what’s going on with you’re gut and how’s that affecting your microbes down south same with your partner, if we can get them on board, get your stool looked at, a urine test is helpful too because we’re gonna be able to look to Candida overgrowth and other types of fungal colonization. So, we like the organic acid, so an oat, a stool and some of the at home test strips, I think that would be a great starting place because you could do other things, blood work, and as you mentioned like the urinalysis and like in the conventional lab, you could do that too. But you might not, if you do these top three.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely, and then the big symptoms that would differentiate an STD over UTI are gonna be like more systemic symptoms, so like nausea, fever, swollen joints, sore throat, symptoms that are kind of gone more systemic and of course there can be some localized symptoms that can be more severe like extreme discharge, severe rash in that area, blisters in the genital area, but look for more systemic type of symptoms that could be driving that.
Evan Brand: Okay. You’re saying more systemic symptoms would be what?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: The ones I just mentioned, so pelvic
Evan Brand: No, would be a UTI?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: No, that’s gonna be more of an STD, so think of STDs are more severe therefore the symptoms are more severe. They’re more systemic. So think of systemic symptoms are things that are more severe, localized symptoms, right, that means the microbes haven’t spread as much and they’re less severe, so more severe think of the STDs.
Evan Brand: Got it. And then you mentioned in the beginning if the UTI is more severe that’s were the back gets involved in the case of the kidneys, you know, there are people that, they perish due to UTIs if they go septic so obviously, you would have a lot more issues than you would know by then. You’d be in real bad pain.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. Yep. 100%. And again, like you know, UTI, on a desk, can go to the bladder and then the kidneys and then, you could have a fever, you could have these things, so as a UTI gets more severe that could definitely drive the symptoms up as well. But usually, what people can see it because it’s just following that urinary tract, it’s going from the urinary tract to the bladder, to the ureters and then up to the kidneys. So yeah, usually you can see that and feel it, the pain starts to move up. Well, anything else, you wanna add?
Evan Brand: No. I’m just gonna say, we work with this issue all the time. We’re really happy to help people and to provide solutions to what have been a major issue. A pain, an issue and like I said with people’s sex life and with just people’s personal health. I mean this is something that’s a big burden for a lot of people especially women. So, we’re really happy and fortunate to have outside of the box tools that we use with great success and we don’t only back it up with clinical experience, we backed it up with some of the research we’ve dove into and the professional formulas we use are tried and true. So, if you need help, please reach out, we’d love to help if you wanna reach out to Dr. J you can at justinhealth.com justinhealth. If you wanna reach out me Evan Brand, you can do so at evanbrand.com and we both work worldwide via facetime, phones, skype and we send products to your door, so if you need to get any of these labs done, investigate you, it doesn’t matter if you’re in California or Oregon or Michigan or Florida or New Mexico or Australia or Canada or Europe, we can do it, we can help and we work with people around the world, we have for decades so it’s just a true, true pleasure to get the hands-on experience with this issue because I think the most empowering thing is to know that you’re not a victim meaning you’re not just going to have to go on antibiotics. That’s just the foghorn of the conventional approach, and it’s just so empowering and inspiring to know, there’s other ways, other tools, there’s other approaches that are very, very successful.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% Yeah and if you guys enjoyed it evanbrand.com, justinhealth.com. There’ll be links right there to work with us. Hit that thumbs up, helps the search algorithm improve so more people can see our information and give us a share, give us a comment, write us a review, we’ll put links below to do that. Thanks, y’all, you guys have a great day, we’ll talk soon.
Evan Brand: Take care.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Bye Evan.
Evan Brand: Bye. Bye.
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The Top 5 Anti-Aging Techniques to Age Gracefully | Podcast #342
Hey guys! In this video, Dr. J and Evan discuss the factors that affect the aging process. They are more straightforward—and less invasive—ways to look younger than mainstream or conventional ways. Dr. J suggests incorporating a few of these habits into your daily routine that won’t just leave you fresh-looking and it’ll boost your overall energy. Watch the video to learn how. Of all the places on your body, your gut is silently receiving different food that can cause the entire aging process. That includes standard precautions such as maintaining a well-balanced diet rich in good fats. But there are also quite a few ways that you may be aging your body without knowing it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani
In this episode, we cover:
3:00: Inflammation
7:21: Insulin Resistance and blood glucose
16:59: Sleep in the aging process
27:46: Fasting Techniques
30:26: Importance of movement and exercise
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And we are Live! It’s Dr. J here in the house with Evan Brand. Today we’re gonna be chatting about natural strategies to help detoxify round ups or glyphosate. Really excited to be chatting with Evan today. Evan, how are you doing today man?
Evan Brand: Doing really well! This is a super important topic.You sea many many lawsuit around the country happen and bayer who bought monsato. They’re really trying to get out of it. I’ve seen several, I’m no law expert but I’ve seen several stories how basically they’re trying to just, throw one lump sum out there for all the cases, as there are thousand and thousand of cases coming at them, because of different cancers like non-hodgkin’s lymphoma that people are claiming that has been linked to their glyphosate exposure. Whether it was like the school grounds worker who was a famous story or other people. They’re really coming at them hard and they’re really really trying to weasel this way out of it and then I saw news just uh, last week actually, that glyphosate is actually going to be phased. I don’t know if you saw this but it said it’s going to be phased out by 2023. So I sent this new article over to Stephanie Synep who I’ve interviewed several times about glyphosate, and she goes “yeah, I saw this. They’re probably just going to come out with another slightly different molecule that’s just as toxic”. So she didn’t think it was that exciting news.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting! Yeah, I mean, I wouldn’t be surprised. It’s kind of like a lot of the medication they have many me’s for it right. Something they can re-patent, um, almost the same molecular structure so they know it’s going to work based on the previous medication or compound but they don’t really have to do too much RND on it because, it’s so close to where it was. So yeah, I get that maybe, probably, the same toxicity profile too. So that makes sense, hopefully that’s not going to be the case but either way, we have a lot of toxins in our environment and roundup’s just one that we have a lot of other pesticides, herbicides, or genocides that are out there. Obviously, a lot of potential chemicals in the water, air, and so roundup or we can kind of put roundup of pesticides – all in the same category, I think that’s pretty fair . So you know first thing is, try to mitigate the use of them on your property, I mean, I use a little bit of pesticides in a spot treating, man. Are we trying to avoid anything blanketed or anything just, you know, blanketed across the board, and you know, we don’t really play out in the grass that much, I mean so if your kids are rolling around out in the grass definitely pay extra money and have those weeds picked up by hand. I think that’s a better way to do it but every now and then, there may be a necessity to spot treat stuff but do your best to avoid that especially if your kids are playing near glass like that, or just have a grass in your yard that you know, this is the play area this where the kids go. We put a nice little rock pit in our backyard just because we know that the rock pit’s going to be perfect right? Put some like, soft help you know, small pebbles in there, um, that are you, um, still fun to play in and they have a digger pit and all that so just try to do your best if you have kids that are young that are playing; mitigate any playing on areas that have any pesticides at all; try to mitigate the use of them, 100 percent and try to have safe, safe spaces in your yard that, you know are perfectly clean.
Evan Brand: There is an alternative to roundup. I’m trying to figure out what it was the moms across America did and article on it-I’m trying to fin it here-it was like a non-toxic weed control. I don’t care about weeds; my grass looks cool and it’s got clover. We’ve got many other different species of plants besides just grass. I mean, I think it’s a myth and it’s dumb you have all these neighborhoods where they think you got to have the grass looking perfect, and grass is just like another version of monoculture. It’s like if you go and walk through my yard, you’re going to see so many different types of plants so I just don’t care. I think people have been brainwashed by the mainstream industry. Even our neighbor we’ve seen you know just out in flip-flops, spraying the glyphosate on their weeds. It’s like who said dandelions are bad? Like, that’s the first food for bee so for me, I’d rather see the field full of dandelions. I guess it’s personal preference but I kind of like it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. It just depends. You know, the biggest problem with weeds in relationship to grass as they grow like, three times the speed, so if you haven’t cut your lawn for a week your grass in this long and your weeds are this long, right? So you missed the nice homogeneous, kind of, clean lawn. I’m a big long guy, I like a nice, clean, homogeneous lawn so I’ll walk out there, you know, halfway through the week if I see any weeds popping up; it’s easy because they grow twice the speed, it’s grass, and I’ll just go and take five minutes, and I’ll just pull my hand. You know, I’m like I like a really nice pretty front lawn. So I’ll go there spend 5-10 minutes a week walking around, pulling by hand, just to mitigate the chemical usage but. First thing is, decrease the chemical usage, decrease the chemical dependency out of the gates. I guess that’s the easiest first step.
Evan Brand: So here’s one. So it’s called, there’s one called Dr. Kirchner natural grass and weed killer. I’m gonna to try to look it up, see what the ingredients. There’s another one, another competitor to it called, Green Gobler. And that’s a 20% vinegar weeding grass killer. And this thing’s got crazy high reviews of it. This Dr. Kirchner k-I-r-c-h-n-e-r natural weed killer . This is just, so it’s four percent sodium chloride, interesting. And they say this ocean water-based product is made for non-selective control of broad-leaf weeds and wheat grasses results in hours. So there you go, I mean it sounds like they’re just using like, concentrated ocean water, they’ve got thousands of five-star reviews on people, people on Amazon are posting their reviews of them in their garden after spraying this stuff and it literally kills it all. This lady said here that it’s magical and safe. So there you go!
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So we’ll have to put some links down below. So you have what, so what are those two products? Those ones that was an apple cider vinegar-based, what else?
Evan Brand: Yeah, and then you got this other one that’s salt water, it’s literally like, four percent ocean water concentrate, and then you have another one called, Natural Armor which is a 30 percent vinegar concentrate.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay.
Evan Brand: My wife even saw one at Target recently. She saw like an organic herbicide. I had a picture of it, I don’t know if I could find it on my phone or not but, she sent me a picture the other day. She said there’s no excuse for people using glyphosate; I said I know, I know, and then she sent me that picture-let me see if I can find it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Good. That’s good. I mean glyphosate, what is does is, it it basically is a chelator, it pulls away all the minerals from the soil, and so it decreases the minerals getting up into the plant which then kill it. And so, if you’re using it even worse on food you’re eating, It’s it’s way worse. Because now you’re destroying the quality of the topsoil, you’re destroying the minerals in that soil, and we know that soil requires minerals so that plant can, um, let’s just say express it you know, express it’s full nutritional potential if you will. So if we have nutritionally deficient soil, like manganese for instance, you know, vegetables are going to have less vitamin C in it, right? So we know the minerals have a major role and they and the quality of that soil, plays a major role in the kind of nutrientsthat plants will produce. So you’re gonna have less nutrition in soil where there’s a bunch of roundup that’s chelated out a lot of those minerals.
Evan Brand: Yeah. I was gonna say, let’s hit on the mechanism . So that’s definitely a big important one, and then the other one that you and I test for in the gut is, we’re seeing the glyphosates damaging the beneficial bacteria in the gut. And this is happening at even PBB – parts per billion levels. So once you kill off the beneficial bacteria in the gut, now you see the overgrowth of clostridium, and there’s a famous chart-I know you’ve seen it before and hopefully others have seen it. But you could just look it up, type in glyphosate autism chart, and you can see the correlation where glyphosate skyrockets along with autism rates, and I’ve seen many many autistic children and we test their glyphosate levels and they’re always high. So, this is not saying causation, but this is in correlation; and William Shaw, Bill Shaw-he’s a guy at great plains lab that we, that we use for these toxic chemical tests. You know, he wrote a great paper on this. He had a paper published about the mechanism . Essentially, it was like an order of operations. It was the glyphosate, as you mentioned, will cause nutrient deficiencies but then damages good bacteria. Bad bacteria like clostridium overgrowth. Now you’ve got these organic acids that go high which mess up an enzyme that breaks down dopamine, now you’ve got excessive dopamine, now you’ve got brain toxicity and the you damage the mitochondria. So it’s a long, a long route there but, this is directly damaging mitochondria which is certainly linked to chronic fatigue and other issues so, when we’re looking at someone’s picture of health, and we see they’ve got a major overload of pesticides, and they’re fatigued, we’re not gonna say, “Hey! This is you number one smoking gun of fatigue” but, it’s certainly a big peace of the puzzle; and I can tell you personally but also clinically when we use nutrients which we’ll get into to detox these pesticides-we see that energy levels go up; and you mentioned exposure, so also, you got to consider where you live too. So even if you’re having Joe Bob next door spray, that might not be as big of a deal as more agricultural areas which is you know, partially where I am which I don’t like. There’s a corn and soybean around here. This is just part of the country where I, where this happens and there’s papers on even one mile of pesticide drift. So the question is…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Far more worried about you because, just the load, you know, if you look at the, just the load coming through.
Evan Brand: Oh, yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh, and your area is just got to be, you know, orders of magnitude. 10, 100x more than just a general uh, you know, residential person that’s just trying to knock down weeds a little bit.
Evan Brand: Totally. Which, which we’re aware of. We’re working on it and we’ve got, we’ve got an exit, so we’re working on it but, yeah. Luckily, we’ve been doing a lot of things. Are you ready to talk about some of the solutions? Obviously, avoidance, external exposure, trying to stay away from it, watching out for like, playgrounds. You know, a lot of playgrounds, they’re too lazy to pull the weeds so they’re just going to spray it so you’ll see often signs at playgrounds like, “watch out!”, and you can tell that they’ve sprayed on the mulch where the kids are playing, and then you may say, “Well, oh! We’ll just go to a rubber playground”, where you have all those chopped up tires but, those are really toxic too. We mentioned those rubber chemicals on the chemical profile for children too. I had a child, a young child actually, was a client who was diagnosed with a rare type of cancer, and we looked at the levels of 1-3 butadiene and maybe some other chemicals; and these are all from synthetic rubber, and this kid was like a stup, a superstar soccer player. He was playing indoors, like 24/7. This kid was these fake rubber mats and his levels were like a hundred x higher than 95th percentile and that was a known carcinogen so we can’t say the rubber caused it but, man, it was certainly a big smoking gun in this case.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: What’s the chemical name?
Evan Brand: It’s so, it’s 1-3 butadiene. It’s on the great plains chemical report. It just says using the production. Yeah, just as used in the production of synthetic rubber.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. So it’s definitely possible, right? So, I mean, out of the gates, the first thing is, we look at our food. Right? First this is make sure you food’s organic because you’re going to have major exposure if you’re taking things in, internally. Right? Things on the outside of the world like yeah, if you’re touching it, right? That’s going to be a problem so one try not to use it at your property or if you do you know, like you know, we try to use it more like glyphosate but kind of more natural version in the front yard spot treated. But in the backyard or in the play any area where we know that kids actually play. Like that’s just going to be off-limits. We try to make sure it’s super clean and good there; and then number two is um, you know, air is going to move all this stuff around. So even if you know you yard’s clean, your neighbors may not be clean. So you got to make sure air filtration in your home is dialed in so you can mitigate it potentially being in the home and breathing it in constantly. So air filters in the home, water filer because there’s also the worry about it getting off into the water table, and if we have a well or anything else, very concerning so you want to make sure good quality water filtration and then like I mentioned earlier-organic food and try to mitigate it’s usage around your property, or try to choose natural sources.
Evan Brand: Yeah. I’m glad you mentioned the water too because that’s important. Believe it or not, even glyphosate’s being found in rain water which is crazy. It’s literally raining down glyohosate because it’s evaporating from various farms and agricultural than it’s moving through the wind currents and then getting rained down on people, and you may say, “Oh well, that’s got to be such a trace amount it doesn’t matter. Well that’s the thing, we’re finding that these, these compounds are active against the beneficial bacteria in your gut at these per billion levels. So you really can’t brush it off. People will try to brush it off but, it’s the small levels, and it’s the synergistic effects, right? So you’ve got a little bot of that and then you’ve got it from your diet. Plus you’ve got it from your water supply, plus you’re getting rained on in your organic garden. This adds up overtime and you and I see bacterial overgrowth everyday, all day; and we know that this is certainly linked to the disruption of the gut-these chemicals. So it’s too important to ignore the air filters is a tough one. I asked Stephanie Synep about that I said, “Hey! What is the actual size of glyphosate? I can’t find it. I’m trying to figure out because you’ll see air purifiers talk about a one micron or a three micron filtration, and she said “Oh, no. There’s no way you’ll be able to filter it. It’s too small so that’s what she said bit, I can’t find anything about the size of it. I’ve asked a couple of companies about is and they say, “Oh, yeah. NO problem. Our air filter will take care of it”, and another company said, “Oh, yeah. Our air filter should destroy the molecule” but, I don’t know how you would yest that. You’d have to like, I don’t know; Have somebody spray a bottle of glyphosate into a room and then run the purifier and see what happens but, it’s removed so many other things that it’s a non-negotiable us, and I know you do the same like, air purifier…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. It’s moving a lot. I mean, you know, we like the Austin Air just because they have the 30 pounds of activated charcoal and zeolite, and those binders, you know, would have a positive effects, binding up these things and so it’s definitely going to decrease the load for sure. If it’s blowing through a hepa filter and also through the 30 pounds of zeolite and activated charcoal. It’s going to have mitigating effects. It’s going to be better off, you know, on when it’s out than, than before, right? So I think it’s still a good thing to have to what degree, um, I don’t know but, in general, it’s good to have, of course the water is a big one. So I try to have all my water that I drink personally-reverse osmosis, so we have a whole house filter that’s carbon-based that filter a lot, and then I have a under the counter filter where I drink my water, and like you know, make smoothies from, or make my coffee from, or use for cooking like that’s all RO. And so we have a little mineral support supplement that will add minerals back in. Because the biggest problem with RO water is the depletion of minerals but, um, I’d rather always have the water cleaner and then add minerals back. It’s always easier to add minerals back than take toxins out.
Evan Brand: Right. Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Always easier.
Evan Brand: For sure, for sure. I mean, yeah…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So like, Oh my God! The minerals In the water. There’s no minerals. Like yeah, but there’s no toxins are way less, so now I’m okay with way less toxins and just being able to add a good trace mineral support back into the water.
Evan Brand: Yep! Yeah, and people…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And you can do like, a redmond. You can do like a redmon’s real salt, you could trace mineral support with some extra potassium and magnesium-all that’s fine.
Evan Brand: I’ll do some of the sea water too. Like some of the sea water like, quinton and there’s a couple other professional brands we use of sea water, that stuff. I tell you, I was kind of skeptical. I’m like how is adding like, basically salt water going to help me bit, it sure did. I mean, it definitely is like a thirst quencher. So it’s pretty remarkable the difference.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, yourself, your cells need uh, they run on a sodium-potassium pump. There’s this gradient of minerals on wither side of the cell. I think it’s what sodium, sodium is on the outside, potassium’s in. It does a little switcheroo. Sodium goes in, potassium goes out, and you need that gradient to happen for the cells to communicate properly. So it you’re low in sodium or potassium, that sodium potassium pump is not going to work optimally.
Evan Brand: you can feel it. I’m telling you. It’s, it’s significant. All right. Let’s hit on some of like, the detox strategies if you’re ready. I think the easy one…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So the first thing is all the lifestyle stuff. That’s foundationthat we stack up. So easiest thing out of the gate is going to be glutathione. So glutathione, whether it’s s acetyl, lyposomal, reduce, whether we do, whether we’re making it with all the precursors like, NAC, ALA, glycine, collagen, right? All these things are going to be really important to help make your master antioxidant out of the gates-that’s probably the big one first.
Evan Brand: Yeah, glycine’s huge, and there’s actually some papers just on glycine by itself in isolation helping with glyphosate which is awesome. So I actually take glycine before bed. It really helps sleep too. So that’s another cool benefit but…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, you can mix collagen, peptides, like I use my TrueCollagen with a little bit of magnesium powder before bed. That knocks it right out and glycine’s helpful with other toxins like strippers like xylene and things like that. It will, it will detoxify xylene-thses kind of chemicals too. So glycine is excellent, and then of course um, you know, roundup’s very destructive on the gut and so if you’re doing glycine, it’s very helpful to kind of heal the enterocytes and repair those too.
Evan Brand: Yeah. I would say probiotics are somewhere on the list now. I don’t know in terms of priority and the mechanism is the same as it is for mycotoxins. There’s some cool research coming out about probiotics actually being able to convert toxins into less toxic forms, and then that makes them more water-soluble, and able to excreted from the body. So there’s some cool mechanism involved with probiotics and of course, if you’re working with a practitioner like us, we’re going to coach you through when and how, and what we’re going to use. But that another cool piece of the puzzle. I’d say my next one is going to be micronized chlorella. There’s a couple professional that we use of it, and this is better than the broken cell wall chlorella because, it’s smaller molecules, and then that’s going to allow better transfer across the blood-brain barrier to get some of these heavy metals out. So we’ll actually use some products that are basically designed for heavy metals but, we’ll use them off-label for like mold and chemical detox.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and so like I have a heavy meal clear product that has some of the, some of the chlorella in there. It also has some of the sodium alginate, and then also some of the modified citrus pectin. These are really good binders that will help with metals and they’ll also help with uh, pesticides too which are great, and then, um, some of the research you’re talking about probiotics actually converting some of the mole toxins and also, they also have an effect binding them too. It’s that what you’re saying too?
Evan Brand: Yeah. I know it’s a conversion. I don’t know if it’s actually binding but, there’s a lot of like great planes they’re doing a lot of work on like promoting the idea of probiotics being like the universal mold detoxifier now – even better higher rated that charcoal for example, which is crazy .
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s why we always talk about dealing with the gut and working on the gut before we push any crazy detox because we know, the gut’s so important. It’s like a lot of these functional medicine principles are like you know, they’ve tried and true but, if you look at the science, like you find more little nitty-gritty within the science of what’s happening, why that is the case like we just kind of know clinically, you get better results doing it so we kind of go that way, and then we just see more data kind of just supporting that hypothesis.
Evan Brand: It’s cool. Yeah, it’s fun because you and I have been basically using the methods we use for years, and then new stuff comes out that’s like, “Oh, cool!” Well, we were doing that already; now we know that it was actually doing other things that we needed it to do for. It’s like get rid of toxins. So that’s, so that’s awesome. How about sauna too? I mean, sweating has been proven to help excrete so many things. I’ll tell you, you know, I had a lady that was in her 70s. We ran a chemical profile test on her. This lady’s test was so clean, I was almost in disbelief because I’ve seen 5, 6 year-old children that are just off the charts with chemicals, and then we have this lady in her 70’s who you think just lived through all sort of different eras of toxicity. Man, I tell you, her chemical tests were as clean as a whistle. I said, “What are you doing?’, and she was in a sauna three to four times a week for half an hour. I said “Wow!”, I said, ”You are living proof that the sauna works and that sweating is an incredible detox pathway.”
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I see a lot of women, too. Like “Oh, man! I’m pregnant.Like, what’s the best way to detoxify when I’m pregnant?” I’m like, well number one, we don’t want to really push any detoxification. The only thing I may gently recommend is maybe a little bit of a, kind of a natural fiber, eating organic, drinking lots of water, and maybe a little bit of an infrared sauna. But you have to shower right afterwards just because you don’t want to move toxins to the skin, and then have them reabsorb back in. So you want to make sure you use a good 10 sulfur soap, break up that film of toxin on your skin so it flushes off your skin. So would you agree that you know, potentially doing a little bit of sauna therapy as long as you’re not depleting yourself, dehydrated, is probably a safe, probably one of the more safer, gentle ways to detoxify if you are pregnant?
Evan Brand: I guess it depends on temperature. Like I’m not going to put a lady in like, a hundred and eighty, like a hot rock one.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: I think an Infrared one…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It can be infrared were it’s lower temperature.
Evan Brand: Yeah. I think if you’re probably at like a 125 degrees or something. That’s somewhat natural that you could experience on the planet. I think would be no problem; the chlorella should be no problem, too. You know, we’ve actually…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Stays in the gut. It stays in the gut. You’re probably okay, I mean, chlorella, some kind of a gentle, more food-based binder is probably okay. I mean, if you’re gonna do some kind of a sauna and you’re pregnant, one, make sure you’re hydrated, make sure you have minerals. Start with like, three or four, or five minutes, and just kind of add like a minute of two every time so you don’t overdue. I always rather know you go at a lower level where you’re confident- you can handle it, and gently nudge it up, and just make sure you shower right afterwards. It’s probably the only detoxification means that I would really push outside of a gentle binder. Uh, that’s food-based for my pregnant females. Back on that, would you agree?
Evan Brand: I would say, I, I don’t see a problem with charcoal and chlorella during pregnancy because, you have to kind of weigh the pros and the cons, right? And we know that for example, these toxins go through the placenta. We know they go through breast milk, so here you are, willingly letting this toxins go through the unborn baby, when you could simply use a gentle binder to try to mitigate some of that or even detox; that there’s actually been crazy stuff being done behind the scenes. I won’t go into too much details because I don’t think it’s published yet but, showing that these micronized chlorella molecules can literally detox the baby before the baby’s even born. So you can actually have a baby come out cleaner than it would’ve been, chemical wise, by being detoxed throughout the pregnancy by the transfer of the chlorella from mom to baby; and then of course, once the baby’s born, through the breast milk, also there is some transfer of chlorella. So there’s some crazy, crazy stuff coming out on that but, too soon to say exactly.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool. I like that. So, yeah. We have our binders, we like the binders, and again, talk to your, your OB if you’re a person that wants to look into that. When you’re pregnant, just be careful. I always recommend do all this stuff before but, if you waited and you have issues, and you got to do it now, talk to your OB, talk to your functional medicine doc before you ever do that. We typically don’t push any hard detoxification when uh, patients are pregnant just because we’re mobilizing a lot of toxins unless, we do it very very gentle-way like we mentioned before. Uh, outside of that, I would say we talked about all the big binders of water filtration. We’ll put some links down below with some of the RO and whole house activated charcoal, carbon-based filters that I personally use and Evan uses. We’ll put some recommended links that you guys have that. That’s going to be really important. I’d say air, water, organic food-those are going to be big, and then we can set them in on top of that. So uh, in my line I use heavy metal clear, my detox aminos that have calcium gluconate, and all the sulfur aminos, and reduced glutathione. Evan has some similar glutathione, and sulfur, and mineral-based products that are mineral, that are like our binders, like fulvic minerals or things that help bind up some of this things, too. So we’ll put some links down below if you want some recommended products that we personally use, and we’re kind of gave you some of the big mechanism, right? One’s binding, right? You’re binding some of it up, and the other one is you’re working on enhancing your own detoxification pathways, so they can excrete them. And then of course, low-hanging fruit, right? The solution to pollution dilution. You take any toxins, you hydrate well enough, good clean water and minerals, the more you hydrate that mineral, that toxin becomes less potent, the more it’s diluted. So that’s, it’s low hanging fruit. It’s easy to forget but, solution to pollution is dilution.
Evan Brand: Cheers! Yeah, and this is real stuff. I mean, we’ve seen many, many, I mean, hundreds of this point; before and after case studies of measuring these chemicals. It’s absolutely remarkable what can be done. So if you’re just like, “Oh, toxins are bad.”, and that’s all you get from this podcast, no. Remember that goes deeper than this. We’re talking the way you perform in terms of your mitochondreal function, your energy levels, the health of your gut. Whether you have bacterial overgrowth which then leads to bloating, and burping, and gas, and issues with your joints and potential autoimmune issues because now you’ve got chlostridium overgrowth. So if you hear this, all you think is” toxins are bad, I need to detox.”, no. Remember, this goes into every body system. This goes into adrenals, mitochondria, liver, gallbladder; I mean, the whole system is involved so don’t just blow this thing off. I still see people-I won’t name her but, there was a lady I knew from my, my town. Now she’s super big and she’s got a supplement company that’s like all these vitamin shop stores and everywhere, and she did a Q&A, and I mean this lady is a multi-millionaire, and people asked her, “Do you eat organic?”, and she said “No. I think it’s a waste of time.” It’s like you’re just, you’re just, uh, what’s the word? Not dumb, that’s the rude word. Uh…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Ignorant.
Evan Brand: Ignorant. She’s ignorant. Yeah, that’s the word. She doesn’t know what that means. Like how important that truly is and how that’s changing everything from her offspring, and the health of her babies to her own health. So to people out there, if you’ve got the means to do it, which hopefully everyone can, I can see people have that brand new iphones but then they say they don’t have the extra dollar to buy the organic strawberries. You got to make thins thing a priority or you’ll see a brand new Mercedes SUV in the McDonald’s parking lot, like you’ve got to make organic a priority.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Absolutely. So you git to make it a priority. It’s shift that for sure, and again, people’s say organic’s a fad. Well, again, before 1950, everything was organic, right? That’s where the pesticide kind of fertilizer industry came kind of post-World War II, and so, everything was organic before that point. And again, like first thing I recommend in the order of priorities is, make sure your meat are organic and pasture fed first, okay that’s the first order of, um, let’s just say investment. The second thing is, eat from the clean 15-these are pesticides that have, these are foods that have a pesticide load; and then, avoid the dirty dozen. That’s kind of environmental working group thing. So we’ll put a link for the clean and the dirty dozen; and then from there, you can start getting organic vegetables that are frozen; that’s cheaper. And then of course, start to buy them, you know, more fresh and organic across the board but, that’s kind of the progression. So just try to at least start with the meats because the meats hold the most toxins, and so fats are in the toxins. So you want to start with meats first, and then you can work on going to clean 15, avoid dirty dozen, frozen organic, and then full fresh on organic. That’s kind of the algorithm there. Anything you want to say about that Evan?
Evan Brand: Yeah, local too. I mean, if you can get local beef too, where it hadn’t traveled thousands of miles from Brazil, and they didn’t cut down the rain forest to get that grass fed beef, then I would totally do that. I get my meat from 15 minutes down the road. It’s just hundreds, and hundreds of acres of beautiful chemical-free pastures. So I feel really good about it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s great! I love it. Well, very good. So out of the gates here also, one last thing, if you don’t have good gallbladder function, or good digestion, right? You’re constipated, you’re not pooping everyday, you’re having a hard time digesting food, not breaking fat down or protein adequately, your stools are floating, excessive skid marks streaks-those kind of things that means you’re not breaking down fat, you’re not breaking down protein adequately, you’re not moving toxins through your bowels adequately, you’re gonna be reabsorbing that, you’re gonna, you’re not gonna have good gallbladder flow to push that out in the stool. So you’re potentially reabsorbing or not eliminating toxins via your digestive tract. And so if we have digestive issues, we got to have some stool testing, we got to fix whatever is going on from a microbial imbalance or gut infection in the intestines. That’s really important. Got to work on live, gallbladder, and making sure enzymes and acids are adequate to break everything down.
Evan Brand: Yep! Good call. And if you need help, you want to get some of this testing done, investigate your gut, look into your chemical toxicity, you can reach out to Dr. J or myself. This website is justinhealth.com if you need to reach out, it worked worldwide (facetime, phone, skype) any way you need to connect there. So justinhealth.com, and for me Evan, it’s evanbrand.com. We look forward to helping you. Also reach out. We offer intro calls too! You can chat with us and figure out exactly what’s going on, symptom wise, we’ll see if you’re good fit for care, and look forward to helping you out.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. We’re here for you all, guys. Awesome! And if you enjoyed it, thumbs up, comments down below, and um, we’re here! Justinhealth.com, evanbrand.com, and write us a review too! We appreciate it.
References:
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https://justinhealth.libsyn.com/the-top-5-anti-aging-techniques-to-age-gracefully-podcast-342
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How Your Diet And Blood Sugar Can Weaken Your Adrenals | Podcast #340
Changes in blood sugar levels may be a sign and symptom of adrenal fatigue. In the early phase of adrenal fatigue, you can see hyperglycemia (high blood sugar) and, in an advanced phase of adrenal fatigue, hypoglycemia (low blood sugar) is the usual presentation.
The thing is, you may not notice a problem with your blood sugar levels, but that doesn’t mean it’s terrific. It is essential to monitor and know the symptoms of having a diet full of food content that send your blood glucose on a roller coaster ride of high and low levels. These glucose level swings can result in damage to your blood vessels, raising your cholesterol, and put you at risk for heart disease.
Dr. J and Evan recommend having yourself tested (not guess) and checking the food you include in your food template because they can be the reason for your chronic issues for so long.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani
In this episode, we cover:
1:47 Adrenal Blood Sugar Physiology
9:26 Intermittent Fasting, Carnivore / Keto Diets
18:45 How Intermittent Fasting Helps
24:43 Hypoglycemia and Adrenal Stress
31:08 How Mold Affects Adrenals
35:00 An App that Helps Monitor Your Diet
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And we are live. It’s Dr. J here in the house with Evan Brand. Today we have an awesome podcast topic on the queue here, we’re going to be chatting about how your blood sugar can weaken and negatively impact your adrenal glands, we’re going to be talking about blood sugar, how it affects your immune system, how it makes you either strong or weak, we’ll be talking about nutrient supplement changes that you can do to help with that, as well as diet and lifestyle changes. So I’m excited to dive into this topic. This is a relevant topic that we are applying and seeing with our patients every day, especially ones that have adrenal issues, or adrenal and cortisol imbalances. So really excited to chat about this. And what’s happened today, man?
Evan Brand: Hey, not too much. Let’s dive right in. So let’s set the stage for people. This is a conversation that maybe didn’t happen. Historically, we didn’t have the chronic 99% of the time, we’re stressed and 1% of the time we take a vacation, we didn’t have that kind of lifestyle historically. And so I think now, you’re kind of talking about this with me, before we hit record, the average person is just so toxic, they’re so stressed. They’re sleep deprived. They’re on stimulants like caffeine, and they’re having these spikes and crashes all throughout the day, pretty much everyone is on both the stress rollercoaster. But they’re also on this blood sugar rollercoaster too. And that really affects the adrenals over time. So that’s where I want to set the stage with people is that we’re in a society that’s doing quick fixes. When we feel a blood sugar crash, we go when we eat the organic cookie. Now it’s an organic cookie instead of an Oreo, or it’s a gluten free cookie instead of an Oreo, but it’s still a cookie, and then you end up crashing again. So I want to set the stage of even though you could be doing paleo or similar diet, a lot of people are still having issues of blood sugar regulation, and we think adrenal is is is one big part of it, which is then connected to the gut. So really, we could make this thing like a three hour episode, but we’re going to try to condense it to half an hour.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. So let’s kind of do like an adrenal blood sugar kind of one on one physiology review for people just kind of coming into this. So your adrenal glands produce a hormone called cortisol, right, which is a glucocorticosteroid. Big word right, the first half of that word is glucose, meaning it helps pertain to blood sugar and energy. And so the more your blood sugar debates goes up and down, the more hormones have to be produced to buffer the highs and lows. So the more we keep our hormones snaking along, or we keep our blood sugar at let’s say in this example snaking along or stress snaking along throughout the day without big up and down spikes. Our hormones are called to the rescue far less. So. If I eat, let’s say one, I’m not eating at all. Let’s say I’m fasting, right and I’m not really good at being fat adapted, your blood sugar is going to drop and when your blood sugar drops, that creates a stress response. The first thing that happens on this low blood sugar drop is going to be a spike of epinephrine or adrenaline. Right? So epinephrine or adrenaline is like the key catalyst to wake up and call cortisol. So you get this epinephrine or adrenaline or catecholamines surge again, they are all the same thing. You have epinephrine, norepinephrine, you have adrenaline, you have noradrenaline, you have catecholamines. They’re all the exact same thing, same name. They’re just meant to confuse people. So just kind of put that out there. If I use these words, they’re 100% interchangeable, okay. So you’re going to have this surge and adrenaline. And that’s going to bring up your blood sugar when it brings that blood sugar up. This is when you may feel anxious. heart palpitations, this is May when you get a little bit dizzy, nervous, sleepless, irritable, right, sweating, you know. So when you start to have when you’re on those blood sugar rollercoaster, when this blood sugar drops and starts to come back up, you may have symptoms that make you not feel that well. And so then, of course, what comes up after that adrenaline surge is then cortisol is now going to help bring it up the rest of the way. So think of adrenaline is the it’s the, it’s the first responder, right. It’s the person on the operator line, getting the police ready to come to your home and then the police to come 1020 minutes late, that’s cortisol. Okay, they come a little bit later to the show. And so that’s important. So when you understand your physiology, that’s, that’s good. The next component is when your blood sugar goes back up on the high side, that’s where you make a whole bunch of insulin. So insulin can make you feel tired, it can make you feel fatigued. Insulin activates a lot of lipo Genesis, that’s fat storing lipo, meaning fat Genesis, creating and so when you start to have when you’re on a blood sugar roller coaster of high to low blood sugar, okay, this creates this high level of insulin, a lot of label Genesis that creates fatigue. And then of course, when you have a high level of insulin that brings your blood sugar back down, because insulin is opening up the cells trying to get blood sugar into the cells to either burn it or store it. And if you’re not active, and your cells are already full of glycogen, and you’re not actively doing something like walking or running or lifting guess what your body then shunts and partitions that fuel into the storing phase. So if you’re active, great, you’ll burn it. If you have muscles that have glycogen storage, you’ll convert it to glycogen which is glucose. Storage sugar storage. And if those two capacities are tapped, then we start going to fat storage starts going more to life with Genesis. So we’re on this blood sugar rollercoaster. So high blood sugar up high blood sugar up, a lot of insulin drops it down, right, then we have this, this really high drop high to low drop, this then stimulates a lot of adrenaline, catecholamines and then cortisol in the app, this is called reactive hypoglycemia. And then the other type of glycemia issue that we’re going to see is going to be usually fasting too much not eating enough low calorie diets, skipping meals, that’s more like this, that’s your blood sugars like this. And it just starts to drop into this hypo category, you know, maybe below 75. One goes up first. That’s the reactive, it’s reacting going high and then dropping, that’s reactive hypoglycemia, that’s typically going to happen due to poor diet, too much sugar, too much carbs, not enough protein on a fat. And then we have just general run of the mill hypoglycemia, usually from poor meal timing, skipping meals, too much fasting, typically low calorie dining. And again, if you’re doing a lot of intermittent fasting, but you’re low calorie in general, throughout the day, that can easily drive low blood sugar too.
Evan Brand: Wow, well said so the average American, they’re experiencing more reactive hypoglycemia because they’re on sodas, they’re on the Milky Way bar and hiding in their desk drawer at lunch, the person listening to us who’s hopefully relatively dialed in, they’re going to just be more in the standard, we’ve just called to us maybe a standard hypoglycemia situation. And then how do the adrenal is play into that? Because what you’re saying is happening is that, let’s say, and this happened to me, I can tell you firsthand what happened. But what kind of open it up. So intermittent fasting, you’re saying that could could drive that and you’re saying there, you’re kind of hinting at the fact that maybe the adrenals are too weak to help you’re seeing the adrenaline can be released, and it’ll crank it up. But you’re saying, Okay, I got like a recording, stop and start. So just making sure we’re good. Okay. So you’re saying that, in a normal situation, the hypoglycemia can start to happen, adrenaline should come up, kind of bump you up, give you the little nitrus booster, but you then you need cortisol to push you to the finish line. But you’re saying in the case of adrenal stress, the cortisol may not be able to get you up to the right amount. And that’s how an intermittent fasting situation could be not good for you. Is that right?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. So then if you don’t have good adrenaline output, or catecholamine, output, like so how do we know that as we look at organic acids, if we see imbalances and vandal Amanda later home of anolyte, these are amino acids that are precursors for dopamine and adrenaline. And again, dopamine is a precursor to adrenaline. So when you’re constantly stimulating adrenaline, you’re actually pulling dopamine down. And dopamine is really important for satisfaction, mood focus, right? So if you’re chronically stimulating adrenaline, you’re going to have adrenaline issues, you’re going to have dopamine issues that can create a whole bunch of problems. We’re going to know that because we’re going to see an organic acid test showing a lot of imbalances in those catecholamines. And if our blood sugar, if we have very low cortisol, we run a good quality Dutch test we see chronically low free and total cortisol, it’s going to be hard for our body to bring that blood sugar back up and we can kind of stay a little bit more hypo. And that can cause that irritability, that faintness, that fatigue, cognitive issues, mood issues, brain fog, it can create all those problems. So if we don’t have good when people talk about adrenal is people mostly just think about cortisol. When it comes to adrenal, they don’t think about the adrenaline catecholamine dopamine connection. And so when we talk about adrenals, we have to really look at the outer part of the adrenals. That’s the cortex. That’s where cortisol lives, that’s where aldosterone lands because we’ll talk about it in a minute. aldosterone plays a big role with minerals and holding on to minerals. And if our minerals go low, like we see in pots, right, which is a postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome that has to do with minerals being low sodium chloride, potassium, right, that can create a lot of symptoms similar to hypoglycemia. And so we have to look at the the cortisol component, but also the adrenaline the adrenaline tends to happen more in the medulla medulla M for more middle part of the adrenal gland. So it’s good to look at both and that’s where having a high quality adrenal test that looks at free and total cortisol, as well as an adrenaline, dopamine via the organic acids to look at what’s happening with the catecholamines and neurotransmitters.
Evan Brand: So how would this work? Let’s say if you weren’t doing intermittent fasting, let’s say you switched off of that maybe you were having these hypoglycemia episodes, the adrenals. were too weak to give you the cortisol output you wanted. So instead of intermittent fasting now you’re just doing like a carnivore breakfast, maybe you’re going to do a grass fed steak or maybe you’re going to do some pastured eggs or some pastured bacon. Is that enough to pull you out of that? Are you going to need some support? Would you recommend we throw in like a little bit of honey, some blueberries, you know, maybe something else to pull you out of that spike like is meat is meat enough? I guess is the simple question.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So what happens with proteins that you’re consuming is your body is going to be able to one, it’s going to be keto adapted. But again, not everyone’s keto adapted, you have to be metabolically flexible to be keto adapted, where you can actually take a lot of the fat, right, you have a glycerol on a free fatty acid, and you’re able to break that down, pull off some ketones and start burning more fat for fuel. A lot of people just can’t transition to that, because they’re very metabolically inflexible. And so protein and fats not going to be a viable source unless someone’s really dialed their diet in for two to four weeks, and really had that metabolic adaptation. Now, some people, their their insulin levels just dropped to low, and let’s say maybe below four or so or even below two on a fasting insulin test, they may need more carbohydrate. And, again, if they’ve been doing the diet for a month, and they’re in there, they’re having good proteins and good fats at every meal. And maybe their carbs are really low, we may want to add a little bit more starch in because sometimes they feel better doing that because it actually blunts the cortisol spike or the adrenaline spike that the body is trying to create to mobilize that glucose. So it’s like, we can add a little bit more carbs in via healthy, safe starch. And that blunt some of the cortisol and the adrenaline is being produced to mobilize that internally, some people, their insulin levels are really high. And by keeping the carbs super low, they’re bringing their insulin back into the sweet spot, and they’re actually good. And then when they add more carbs in, they actually feel worse, because their insulin is going out of balance, and they’re starting to get more into fat storage mode. So most people I find tend to be more on the insulin resistance side. So I always default to lower carbohydrate out of the gates, and then fine tune later once they kind of hit the wall. And you know, a good way that to see how you know, if you’re hitting the wall or not, is get to a place where you’ve been doing it for a month or two, make sure your body is pretty good at burning fat, right? So you’re eating good proteins, you’re eating good fats, that initial keto flu is over right, that first couple of weeks of getting fat adapted headaches, mood issues is over, then you can try adding a little bit more carbs in maybe at night. Have a sweet potato, a little bit of white potato, a little bit of a say starch, see if you feel better or not. If you sleep better, if you have more energy, if your workouts are better, recovery is good, that’s a good sign that that’s better for you if you don’t feel better. Or let’s say you’re you know, you’re very overweight, and you probably want to work on keeping the carbs in check longer, again, the benefit that you have with good fats and proteins, it’s hard to over eat when you’re eating good fats and proteins, because there’s good satiation signals to your brain that tell you to be full. That’s like peptide yy, adiponectin. coli cytokinin. There’s really good feedback regulations, people are like, well, it’s all about calories in calories out, it’s like, but not all calories, tell your brain that you’re full the same way. So you have to look at the the epistatic regulation of appetite, right and certain neuro peptides are going to be produced with certain foods, you’re not going to get that same stimulation, eating pizza eating Pringles drinking refined sugar, you’re not going to get it. And that’s why it’s so easy to overeat those foods, and you never really feel satiated, try eating you know, half a dozen eggs with you know, cooked in butter, it’s gonna be really hard to still be hungry afterwards. As long as you don’t eat things too fast, where people really go awry with proteins and fats is they eat things too fast, is about a 10 to 20 minute delay in those kind of chemicals telling you you’re full. And you really have to give your body that 10 to 20 minute buffer time. So eating slower, chewing your foods up really well, not overly drinking, when you consume those foods, giving yourself five or 10 minutes once you finish your meal before you get seconds. That plays a big role, because it’s really easy to overeat with these foods, when you don’t give it enough time.
Evan Brand: Yeah, look at the marketing of potato chip companies, veggie candy, just one, they know that you’re not going to get leptin and all these other beneficial compounds and tell your body your full. So the marketing companies know what they’re getting into, they know you’re going to eat a whole bag of chips, because you’re never going to get that signal that you’re satiated. And that’s where you’re going into trouble. So let’s go back to the adrenals for a minute. So you mentioned running a Dutch panel looking at low cortisol. So what you’re saying is if you’re going to see a flat panel, or maybe just maybe it’s not flat, maybe there is some sort of peak on the cortisol in the morning, but it’s very weak. So overall, you would just say there’s a low cortisol output, you’re saying those people are going to tolerate intermittent fasting less, those people are going to tolerate very low carbs less so they may need a little more bump while they get their adrenals back on board. Is that safe to say?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: If their cortisol is really low? Yes, it just depends kind of where they’re coming from. Right? If they’re coming from being overweight, being more insulin resistance, being more tired, being more fatigued out of the gates, always in a default to lower carb. If they’re coming from already being at a reasonably healthy weight and being pretty active already. Then I’m going to default to adding a little bit more carbs and so it just depends upon where someone’s coming from. So it’s always good to look at someone’s Samantha type right? ectomorph endomorph mesomorph right. endomorphs like The linemen write in football. And again, this can be like any one, but they’re just have a larger, higher propensity to put on weight, write the message, or then they have the ectomorph. This is more of the natural kind of basketball player type, they’re just more taller and more leaner, hard to put on muscle, hard to gain weight. And then you kind of have a blend between an ectomorph and an endomorph, called a mesomorph. Think of that as the M for middle, right. And this is kind of more like your linebacker in football, right. And again, these are extreme examples, but helps to kind of tell the tell the story, right? Not everyone’s a 300 pound lineman, I get that, right. But people have this propensity to put on more weight. But a mesomorph, someone that’s kind of more in the middle, like they could be taller and leaner, but they also can be bigger as well, they’re kind of in between. So usually, people are in one of the three of these categories. And usually, if you’re more on the ectomorph side, you’re going to be able to tolerate carbs pretty well. So that you have to just kind of like you know, see kind of where, where you feel best. And there’s a lot of people out there like let’s just say let’s people on the diet side, I’ll just I’ll call Chris kresser out, right? Chris? kresser is a ectomorph. Right? suit. You know, Paul jammin a ectomorph. A lot of people out there that like recommend more carbs, more higher carbs, more whole food, carbs? And it’s like, well, of course, you’re going to recommend that because you’re an ectomorph, of course, right? So you have to look at the people that are recommending certain things and look at what somato type they are because certain somatic types are going to have a propensity to handle macronutrients differently than someone else. So it’s good to look at that as a general template. But in the end, you got to fine tune it, you got to look at it, my default way of looking at because of insulin resistance is being so prone, because refined and processed foods have been eaten ubiquitously, you know, over the last 20, if you look at the macronutrient trends over the last 20 or 30 years, right, its proteins gone down a little bit fats has actually gone down a little bit. And actually cards have gone up. So when you look at that general trend, we can just assume out of the gates that most people are going to have carbohydrate problems, not protein and fat problems. And if they do have protein in fat problems, it’s usually from junky trans fats and or junky omega six refined vegetable oils, not healthy animal fats.
Evan Brand: Yeah, very, very great points. And that’s important for people to listen, I mean, you’re hearing a clinician speak, you’re hearing the clinicians brain, because as you mentioned, if you get into some of these other people that may not be practicing clinically with people, they’re going to be able to give you a cookie cutter answer and you did not I was kind of probing you to give me some like buzz wordy, you know, like something I could post on Twitter type answer, but you gave me a clinicians answer. And I hope people appreciate that. Because there’s a lot of variants with this. And I know it’s frustrating, because when you listen to a podcast, you’re like, I just want to be told what to do how to do it. Give me the sparknotes? And your answer is there’s not really a sparknotes there are some categories, if you will, that we can put people into I’m definitely probably closer to ectomorph. And so I do better. Like if I do a grass fed steak and I throw some extra organic wild blueberries in with that for breakfast, I feel so much better with that extra little blueberry hit, as opposed to just the steak versus let’s say, my grandmother who had an high a one c score, she’s going to do much better with just the steak and she’s going to go but better lower carb overall.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. So it’s good to know, I’m kind of more of a mesomorph I’m kind of in the middle. And I just I look at you know, the problems that we as society have as a whole, generally speaking, and I kind of just create my recommendations to have the largest bang for the buck regarding the average person. And then of course, when patients come in, then you kind of look at them, you kind of look at their height, their weight, you know, especially you see a lot of women, you know, in their 40s. I’m like, well, where were you in high school in college it regarding your weight? Oh, I was 80 pounds lighter. Okay, so we know there’s some metabolic damage there. If you put on 80 pounds since that time, right. So then, then it’s good to really make sure we we support them being better fat burners, I think the next step I wanted to hit would be intermittent fasting. So someone in the comments here will talk about this, they talked about omad, or one meal a day, I’m not a huge fan of omad. Now people can do it, if they’re wanted, they have pretty good adrenals their diets really good and they’re very metabolically flexible. Okay, with omad. It’s one meal a day. So you need all of the calories that you need in one day in one meal. So number one is you’re going to be eating a meal that’s like two to three times bigger than what your typical meal would be. Because if you need, let’s say, you know, I’m six to 2015 pounds, right? I need like 3000 calories a day, if I’m you know, relatively active, well, 3000 calories is a lot of food at one meal. Okay, it’s a lot of food. Because you need your your micronutrients, you need, you know, your amino acids, I need probably at least half a gram per pound of body weight minimum for protein. So I need at least let’s say 110 grams of protein, that’s a big meal. So one, you need really good digestion, you probably needed over an hour to sit down and actually eat that meal if you’re not going to be sick because that’s a lot of food to eat at one time. So you probably need an hour to eat it. You need really good digestion really good enzyme and acid secretion. You need an hour to sit down and be able to handle it and you probably can’t move much for an hour afterwards because the meal so big, it’s it’s the equivalent of a Thanksgiving Day dinner. Right? And so you got to be careful with that.
Evan Brand: I think let me just give you a little I’ll give you some numbers real quick just to show how hard what what you’re describing would be. So for example, I love bison. So if you were to do a which this is going to be your fattiest cut, if you could do a bison ribeye, a 10 ounce bison ribeye, you’re going to get roughly less than 500 calories, maybe like for something like 450 to 480. So if I just did it as 10 ounces. So I mean, God, let’s say you did 20 ounces, which would be very hard for me to do a 20 ounce bison ribeye, you know, you’d be maybe close to 900 calories.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and so you’d probably need at least you know, if for me, right, you’d probably want about 25 to a third of your calories coming from protein right around there. And so you’d probably want about that steak would probably have to be about 20 ish, maybe a little more ounces than that. That’s a lot to do at one time. And that’s not including the six to seven servings of vegetables that you may want to do with that as well.
Evan Brand: And then what Yeah, I was gonna say, and then what else are you going to do? Let’s say you did like a cup of broccoli, that’s like 40 calories.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. So you need like literally eight cups of that or like, you know, 60 it’s becomes really hard.
Evan Brand: Yeah, cuz I see why you don’t recommend it. So so your overall, your overall messages, you think maybe two meals a day, you could get away with a one meal a day you think for this type of conversations can be really tough.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, two meals is good. Two meals, you can do it in the morning, I mean, you may want to have like a little bit of bone broth, or something very gentle on the liquid side. Again, if you’re just trying to do intermittent fasting, it’s easier to do one, I don’t recommend it every day. But it’s easier to do like, you know, keep your eating window between 12 and eight, or let’s say two and eight, I think it’s easier that way gives you enough time to have a meal at two o’clock, five o’clock, or let’s say to, let’s say two o’clock, six o’clock, and maybe a little snack before bed, if you’re still hungry, you want to fill in the gap, right? So it’s a little bit easier from a nutritional standpoint to get your needs met. Again, if you’re having a lot of hormonal issues, I don’t recommend doing a lot of fasting out of the gates. Think of fasting as a stressor, it’s a stressor on your body, just like exercise is a stressor. So imagine your personal trainer, someone’s like super unhealthy. They’re out of shape. And you’re like, hey, come to my CrossFit class tomorrow, I’m 100 pounds overweight, come come across it, it’s like well, you know, with their weight being where they’re at, and how inflamed they’re at, they’re gonna be like, literally in bed the next week, with sore joints sore back totally hurt. So you have to make a recommendation based on what’s best for them. So you may say, hey, let’s just do like a 10 minute walk tomorrow, right? So a 20 minute walk, let’s say a five minute walk after every meal, that may be a better recommendation, right? So think of like the Oh, Matt, or like a lot of this intermittent fasting. That’s the equivalent of jumping a very overweight, unhealthy person into CrossFit. It’s the equivalent, it’s still a stressor on the body. Now, if you’re healthy, guess what? It’s a stressor that you can adapt from and get up and get stronger. But if you’re not healthy, that stressor is going to break you. And so you kind of have to know that, hey, this is an application of stress. And the question becomes, does your physiology have the ability to adapt to that stress based on where you’re at now? And for most people that are that we see clinically? No, that’s not gonna be the case. Yeah, there’s always weather. Yep. I always weather under Should I rather undershoot it have that person feeling better, less or less tired? And kind of in kind of gauge up then overshoot and make them feel worse?
Evan Brand: Yeah, well said. So this is the anti boot camp podcast. You see those boot camp signs? It’s like, they’ll just come in and they’ll just kick your ass on day one. I mean, they don’t care. You’re 300 pounds five foot tall. 300 pounds, haven’t walked a mile in 10 years and they’ll just come in and throw you down. Give me 50 them Yes. Boom, boom.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I mean, if your life if you can come home and just like recline back and chill and read and watch TV or just hang out all day, you’re not doing much. Okay, fine. But most people have like, have to work they have to do things, they have to do chores, they have kids and family and responsibility to take care of so it’s like their life can’t revolve around that right? So obviously with the TV show and that’s what their life is, you know, you can get away with stuff when that’s what all your focus is. But for most people, you know, that’s not the reality that we’re in.
Evan Brand: Yeah, and if you want to go another direction with this, please do but I just wanted to bring up one question here that came in the live chat. And for people listening if you want to join us at the time of this recording, maybe we change the schedule but for now we go live every Monday somewhere around 11am Eastern on Dr. Jay’s Justin health YouTube channel so if you want to check them out, that’s how you can join us in the live chat question here. Does sugar or caffeine effect? I think they meant effect. The sugar caffeine weaken the adrenal is the most. I don’t know if they’re saying like either one. I would say both are a factor in people going to Starbucks and getting their dessert in the cup, which they call coffee. That sugar caffeine combo, I would say is a super big issue with hypoglycemia and adrenal stress. What would you say?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think it depends if someone’s doing a cup of coffee or two in the morning and they’re consuming it with some fat and some protein like maybe they’re throwing some collagen MCT oil in there. That tends to time release, the caffeine tends to not be as big of a deal because the caffeine is going to be out of their system, you know, by the time they go to bed. So if they’re doing a cup or two, as long as they are not getting anxious, anxious or irritable, or Moody, or any of those negative symptoms afterwards, I’m okay with a little bit of caffeine. And again, if you’re on the fence, just pull it out or choose something that’s more decaffeinated. Choose a coffee substitute, like to Chino, or do a decaf, kameel or decaf green tea. See if you feel better if you don’t notice a difference where you’re not feeling worse with caffeine, a little bit’s okay. And if you want to time release it, a little bit of fat in there and a little bit of collagen, will time release it and just do it in the you know that first hour or two getting up, don’t do it in the afternoon hours. If people that get in trouble are the ones that do it usually after lunch, and they’re trying to get at that second when between three and five. And then it’s it’s causing a second cortisol surge at night because that caffeine still in their system around 10 to 11 o’clock at night.
Evan Brand: So what you mentioned is good, but your average person’s not doing what you’re you’re doing. They’re wrapped around the Starbucks drive thru, they’re gonna go get a venti caramel frappuccino with frickin whipped cream and six pumps of syrup.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, so what we’re talking about zero sugar in the coffee, we’re talking totally black with the exception of maybe some MCT or, or a heavy coconut cream. Or if you can handle dairy, maybe a heavy whipping cream, some kind of a good fat in there that you can tolerate. Maybe it maybe it’s just MCT oil, maybe it’s some collagen as well, because that time releases it and really allows it to go in your system slow. Someone on the chat talked about using glucose and sugar to keep their blood sugar stable throughout the day. Like that’s literally like going camping and keeping your fire going all day with paper and kindling. It’s just it’s not practical, because you’re never going to get keto adapted, you’re never going to become a fat burner, when you’re literally relying on glucose to keep your blood sugar stable all day. That’s the problem. And that’s like, you know, physiologically, the antithesis of health. Because really be healthy, you really want to be fat adapted. So you can help burn can help get energy from fat, it’s the most stable energy source, that’s not going to require up and down dips. So the equivalent of that is getting energy from logs in a campfire, which burn a lot longer and stronger than let’s say kindling a paper. So you just have to look and say, if I’m camping, the goal was I want to really get my heat from those good logs, not killing your paper because I don’t have to be feeding it all day long. That’s the difference.
Evan Brand: Yeah, and some of this biochemical talk people may dislike to now and like, turn into a zombie. So if you’re listening to this, you’re like, well, how does this actually change how I’m getting through my day. So that example that Justin’s mentioning with the really good fatty coffee versus the really sugary coffee. So this is the person who, like I know, you’ll do fatty coffees, like during our podcast, so you’re going to be burning clean, and you’re going to have a good energy burn throughout the entire morning, versus the person doing the sugary caffeine, they’re going to crash Two hours later. And then they’re going to go for maybe as this person mentioned in the comments, or they’re going to go for fruit or fruit juices or something else, they’re going to get that quick hit of kindling again, and then they’re going to crash. So when you’re at work that you’re not going to be performing at your best. I mean, if I were in charge of like a massive company, and I had the ability to give people support, I would say, hey, look, everybody can do a nutritionist console, let’s say you had like a warehouse worker. And we found that the output of the warehouse workers were 20% more efficient, if we all had them on more animal based higher fat diets, as opposed to these people. You know, when I used to work at UPS to pay for my college, you’d have these guys who on a four or five hour shift, they pull out two or three candy bars just to get through the shift. And here I was eating just my grass fed ground beef before I went in, and I was stable the whole time. These guys could work for an hour, they got to go do a bag of chips, they go to the vending machine, get the coke, and then they go do the Cheetos. I mean, it was literally it was crazy to watch.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, exactly. And there’ll be a lot of people out there. And this is why I talked about this amount of time to people that you’re going to see breaking all the rules that I’m saying these are going to be the vegan vegetarians, the high carbers. And when you’re an ectomorph, you can handle lots of carbs your body has the ability to take those carbs shunted in Burnet right away. And then these are the people that get energized with more carbs. Like if I if I give you a glass of orange juice and a bunch of carbs, these are the people that want to go out and literally run a marathon because their body handles carbs, and it just fuels them up and makes them so energized. And so we all have vegan vegetarian friends that just literally eat carbs all day, right? You know, you see the fruitarians that are out there. This is a big thing. I think in the 80s. at Apple, there was a big like fruitarian called they all ate fruit was like unbelievable. And you see people that are energized, energized. These are ectomorphs these are people that can handle that I still don’t think it’s healthy, I think as long term ramifications with insulin and oxidative stress. But people can do that based on kind of their natural genetics, metal type and how they can handle fuel. Most people aren’t at that place. And so you kind of have to really look at getting good proteins and fats in there and manage your blood sugar accordingly. And so, the only other thing I wanted to highlight was oh yeah, let’s say let’s say you’re doing a fast like a two day course. free day fast if it’s a punctuated fast, and most people want to faster, they’re keeping their stress down, they’re not going to go work 12 hours a day and deal with stress, because when you’re fasting, you’re not getting nutrients in your body via vegetables, or fruit or protein. So you’re relying on primarily your fat for fuel. And obviously, protein, you’re doing what’s called cellular autophagy, where you’re recycling proteins. And ideally, you’re recycling some of those, you’re getting some of those for fuel, you’re also getting a big bump of adrenaline and cortisol for those couple of days. So you may feel pretty good and pretty alert if your adrenals are strong. And then of course, you’re you know, you’re getting a lot of the fat because you’re tapping into fat, but long term, that’s not good, right? Because we know, any person that’s been on a long term starvation, like diet, you know, you just look at people will were to post concentration camps that were starved, but no one walks out of that healthy, right? It’s impossible. But for a short two to three or four day period, you definitely can. And the key is you have to keep your stress down and under control, maybe do some bone broth, or do some minerals as well to keep your minerals and your electrolytes up. But most people that will still be the equivalent of a CrossFit workout. And if they’re metabolically unflexible, that could break them as well.
Evan Brand: Yeah, well said another question here, I have a friend that lives in mold and is super stressed. How does mold affect the adrenals? Well, it is a huge cause of adrenal issues, mainly because it’s creating this alert response, it’s creating a sympathetic stress, the body’s trying to react to it, hopefully, the body’s reacting to it, meaning that there is some sort of immune response. And maybe there’s some antibodies that come in, maybe there’s some detox pathways that are ramping up. So hopefully your body has a reaction, but it’s a huge adrenal stress. And I would say, even if they’re not living in mold, and you just have mycotoxins in your system, that can be an adrenal stress, or two, I know for me, I had a lot more baseline anxiety when I had just mycotoxins in my system, and I wasn’t being exposed to mold, my wife experienced the same thing. So we were doing adaptogenic herbs to help regulate the adrenals. But once we’ve detox quite a bit using binders, when we’ve done many podcasts on that, my baseline anxiety is back to the way it was before, which was I didn’t have baseline anxiety. So yeah, I can tell you firsthand, it’s a big, big factor.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I mean, the first thing we have to do, if we have issues with mold is you one, you got to get your environment more stabilized, make sure you’re able to digest and break down foods and get good proteins and good fats in there. Also, on the flip side, right, I’ve talked about, you know, some of the fasting benefits and stories, we have a lot of we have a large group of people out there that are carnivores, like they literally just eat meat all day long. And they do amazing, right, and so like, you have to look at both sides of the camp, because their success stories on both sides of the camp. And so you have to understand why someone may have a success story over here, and not over there, or why someone over here has one but not over there, you have to look at it in a kind of non dogmatic type of, of mindset, right? People kind of have their camp and say, Well, this person over here has to be lying. It’s like, Well, probably not. And, you know, we’ve seen 1000s of patients. So I’ve been able to kind of understand why certain people on the high carb get great success and why people on the extreme low carb, and why somewhere in between tends to be the biggest bang for your buck, right and, and then who are those people that way you can make recommendations and push people to either direction, so they can get better results. Because it’s like you’re either you either have like my allegiance is to getting the patient the best result not to using a tool to get them to the result, I put enough tools in my tool belt so I can be non attached to the tool because I want the result to get happen for the patient. Some people are really, they’re really attached to the tool, and they want this tool to be what gets them the result. And you really have to, as a patient, find doctors that are unattached to the tool, they really just want to get you the result that you’re looking for.
Evan Brand: Yeah, well said and, you know, me being an ectomorph, you would think I wouldn’t do well with just tons of meats and fats. But I do great, really low carb and there is some discussion of mold and fungal infections and candida overgrowth and CBOE and CFO and some of these things, that people will do better. And I definitely had a history of a lot of gut issues. So I think for me, that’s part of the reason I do so well low carb as an ectomorph. But I certainly feel fine on starch and white rice and berries and, and all of that. And I’m kind of lucky, I guess I think it’s a blessing to be able to do both, it’s a blessing for me to have a grass fed steak with just blueberries for breakfast and feel fine all day. But it also be cool to do some rice with some dinner and have no issues with it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You have enough of a solid foundation with your proteins and your fats and your nutrient density. Where those those a little bit of carbs, it’s not gonna be enough, it’s kind of like you have a fire going you have a good log already in there. If you throw a little bit of kindling extra in the fire, it’s the fire is still gonna be there, right still gonna be strong. And so that’s kind of where you’re at and the more metabolically flexible you get, you know, but in the end, you got to listen to your body, right? We got we got to be we got to be data results driven, not not dogma driven. And if you feel great doing something, and you know your nutrient density is up and you’re in you feel good and you feel energized and you feel flexible and you don’t feel inflamed. That’s really important.
Evan Brand: Here’s what I recommend this podcast is brought to you by Daybook. No, it’s not actually brought to you by Daybook. But Daybook‘s a cool app that I have on my phone. And I love it, because I’ll pull it up real quick. I love it. I wish I could share my screen on my phone somehow. But anyway, I love because I can just scroll through it. So people don’t audio, you’re not going to see this at all. And I apologize. But anyway, it’s cool, because you can look at it. And you can go may 27, may 25, may 23. And you could just scroll through and you could be like, oh, look on May 3, I wrote here that I did a grass fed steak and a big old bowl of white rice, and my blood sugar crashed. So it’s fun to be able to report back. I know there’s a million apps out there. But that’s just one that I like, because I like to be able to hit the plus button, start new notes, do voice to text, whatever I can and then boom, I can look back, and I’ll just be like, oh, here, here’s where I messed up. And so I think people have to track this. You’re mentioning that listening to your body. If you’re busy, you got kids, you got a job, it’s tough to know, oh crap, what day was that, that I did the rice and then I did the grain free this and the gluten free cookie or whatever. If you can track it in the app, you can report back, so picking out but that’s what I like.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I like that. Also, just for my autoimmune patients listening I see a lot of patients that have thyroid issues hashimotos other autoimmune issues, blood sugar fluctuations high to low can definitely increase immune activation. I have a couple of studies here. I’ll just kind of give you all the overview just so you could take on what sticks was study right here talking about the effects of hyperglycemia on an inflammatory response. Another one here, the effects of induced hypoglycemia on inflammation and oxidative stress with patients that have type two diabetes that they made diet changes where they restricted calories and gave them Metformin to cause low blood sugar levels. And they saw an increase in immune response, they saw an increase in monocytes, and platelet aggregation, a whole bunch of things right. And so you know, we’re talking about inducing low blood sugar in a in this could get out of a study on this directly. But we could do this with a bad diet with hypoglycemia from a reactive hypoglycemic diet, like someone consuming a Starbucks macchiato with extra pumps of Carmel in there and you create a low blood sugar response. That way, you’re going to activate interleukins cytokines monocytes immune responses that are not going to be helpful and may even flare up your autoimmunity. And so the more you can snake your blood sugar along throughout the day, with good proteins, good fats and the right amount of carbs for you and your activity level versus up and down swings, the better it will be we know the data on on low blood sugar and the immune response is profound and people that have autoimmune issues, you really have to work on that. Yeah, right here. Although the underlying mechanism remains unclear, increase inflammatory cytokines and leukocytosis are reported after hypoglycemia, suggesting a link between hypoglycemia and in formation. And again, this hyperglycemia will be a little bit different than let’s say intermittent fasting, hypoglycemia, but the faster your blood sugar drops, right? The more inflammation, the more your body’s gonna create a hormonal response, that’s not going to be helpful.
Evan Brand: Makes total sense. Here’s a lady grace left the comment for it. She said she used to do one meal a day and two meals a day. And it felt like a badge of honor when I could fast for longer, but I realized it was stressing me out and not optimal for digestion. Probably meaning saying she’s not optimal for digestion. Yeah, it’s just too much too much at one meal.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So you know, if you do that, you know, I think you come at it a couple days a week, make sure you’re relatively healthy. Make sure you take some extra HCl or enzymes, make sure you carve out a little more time to eat that meal, so you’re not stressed. Also, just just go and run your food through chronometer. Like, if you’re getting two meals a day, you know, go go carve out what that meal has to look like you’re gonna find it’s about 50% bigger on average. And that’s just a lot more food and a lot more time and you got to make sure you’re not stressed because we all know what happens when you eat a big meal and then you’re stressed you feel even worse you feel totally weighed down, you feel nauseous, then your next meal you don’t even want to eat it because you’re still just upset. So yep, I think we hit today really good. I would just say like understand the connection between cortisol, adrenaline, your immune system, why some people get great results doing different diets and other people right read between the lines be results driven, not dogma tool, modality driven. It’s really important right? Check your biases at the door. Outside of that I hope this podcast resonates with different folks if you want to reach out and you want to get individualized help from Evan, EvanBrand.com you can reach out to Evan. Dr. J here JustinHealth.com. You’ll see schedule links. We’re happy to work with patients worldwide. You know we are in the trenches rolled with our sleeves rolled up dealing with people every single day so we’re here to help outside of that if you enjoy the content, put your comments below let us know what you liked the best and please share with family and friends that could benefit it really helps propel kind of our life’s mission to help more people every day. Appreciate it. Anything else Evan?
Evan Brand: No that’s it Take good care and yeah leave us a review on your Apple podcast app we’d love it if you’re on Justin health show or if you’re on my show and brain show, give us a review, we’d love to see what stars you think the show deserves. We’ve got hundreds and hundreds of five stars we’d love to add to it that helps us in the rankings so more people can hear us. So thank you so much in advance and take care yourself.
References:
Audio Podcast:
https://justinhealth.libsyn.com/how-your-diet-and-blood-sugar-can-weaken-your-adrenals-podcast-340
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The Top 5 Nutrients to Address Gut Inflammation and Leaky Gut | Podcast #339
Whenever you are worried about your gut health and having inflammation, Dr. J and Evan are here to share five essentials that may help you.
Lessen your intake of highly processed foods, refined carbs, sugar, artificial sweeteners, and alcohol. Opt instead for anti-inflammatory foods like fruits, vegetables, spices, and healthy fats but, if you suspect that several foods are triggering inflammation in your gut, it might be worth giving an elimination diet a try.
It may require removing foods from your diet that you suspect are connected to your gut problems for roughly two to three weeks at a time. Inflammation in your gut may cause a host of harmful health symptoms, from fatigue to irregular periods and chronic constipation. However, a few changes to your diet and lifestyle might be vital to helping you control these symptoms and improve your gut health.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani
In this podcast, we cover:
0:48 Looking into the Gut Deeper
3:53 Good Foundations
6:26 Chewing is Important
8:22 Mushrooms as Anti-Inflammatory Properties
16:00 Probiotics
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey guys, it’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani here. Today’s podcast is we’re going to be talking about the top five nutrients to address gut inflammation, and leaky gut or gut permeability. So this is a topic that’s pertinent to a lot of our patients as gut inflammation, there’s usually some component in why they’re not feeling good. So I’m really excited to address this today with Evan, we’re gonna dive into the things that we do clinically, the things that work with our patients, the things that actually get results, we’ll break it down, and we’ll kind of give you guys some action items for today as well. And what’s cooking man? How are we doing?
Evan Brand: Hey, you’re doing really well. And you know, we always come up with a title. And then we over deliver on that title. So we’re calling this something along the lines of top five nutrients to help your gut or to heal your gut or support intestinal permeability, but maybe we end up going over five. So I’m just gonna go straight to my favorite because it’s so easy. It’s so broad spectrum in its use. And it’s so safe for people across the board to use it, whether it’s kids, adults, the elderly population, even people that don’t have testing, you know, our philosophy is test don’t guess we want to have the data, we want to have good stool testing, and good organic acids testing to look into the gut deeper and figure out what’s going on under the hood. But there is usually a three, sometimes four week timeline between talking with a client or a new patient and then getting the test results. So what do we do to help these people in that in between time before we can do the real work based on the data, I’d say my favorite is probably aloe, and specifically you and I use an aloe extract. It’s a 200 to one, so it’s 200 pounds of gel converted to one pound of extract, and then that’s encapsulated. We had a young boy, not super young, maybe 16 17. But he was diagnosed with autoimmune gut issues, Crohn’s all sort of colitis, actually pan colitis where the whole digestive tract was affected major bleeding in the store. We got him on simply a 200 to one extract of aloe. And within three weeks, we did a new gi map stool test, and we dropped his calprotectin levels, which is his gut inflammation by 1000 points, just by aloe alone.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Unbelievable. Yeah, it’s powerful what nutrients can do now I always tell patients, if you’re trying to come in and make some changes out of the gates, I mean, your best bang for your buck would be fixing the food, because the food is constantly getting your body getting your gut in flames. So the first thing we can do is look at the the the inflammatory food that could be coming in this could be gluten or other technically gluten free grains like corn, oat, rice, those kinds of things. So you want to really get the grains out, you want to really get a lot of the poly polyunsaturated omega six vegetable oils. And again, the reason why vegetable oils tend to be more, let’s say poor is because they’re highly processed to extract the fat. And the processing actually damages the fat and creates free radical stress within those fats. Because the more you take in damaged fats, your body has to utilize antioxidants to stabilize the fats. So they don’t create free radicals. And so it depletes a lot of your antioxidants. And then those fast take on and become part of your cell membrane. And to have healthy cells you have to have good membrane. Because the membrane essentially is the brain of your cell. It provides a lot of good cellular communication happens with the membrane. So if you have junky fats, whether it’s omega six junky fats, or trans fats like hydrogenated soybean oil, right, those kinds of things, canola, you know, safflower, those are going to be more junky omega six, and they’re going to really not make the healthiest cell membranes, they’re going to deplete your antioxidant reserves. And if they’re on the trans fat side, they’ll make your cell membranes very inflexible too.
Evan Brand: Yeah, good point. And I apologize for skipping over the diet piece, you know, you think of the typical American person, they think, just give me the pill. Give me the magic remedy. So we’ll talk about some of those remedies. But yeah, you make a great point, you can’t go out to Pizza Hut for dinner, and then just take an aloe capsule, and everything’s going to be okay. Correct.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. So that’s it’s good to look at the foundation out of the gates. I’d also say like, I’ll just kind of put this next category into a broad category and just say, amino acids. And these amino acids could be things like an acetylglucosamine, NaG that could be things like glycine, which are going to be very high in collagen or bone broth. And they could also be things like glutamine, so I kind of put these in the amino acid bucket, when they tend to be very good support for the entire sites of the gut lining, that can be used as fuel for the gut lining, they also can help with gut permeability. And, and glycine is a really good backbone for connective tissue. So it can be very helpful for that lot of that connective tissue healing out of the gates.
Evan Brand: So how about enzymes? When you hear nutrients to heal the gut or support the gut, you don’t necessarily think about enzymes, you think of more like you mentioned, the glutamine, Aloe, the kind of calming, soothing things, but I would argue enzymes have a role in helping with reducing gut inflammation simply by improving digestion and reducing the putrifying and fermenting of foods because I know my gut was Super inflamed. If I look back at some of my original stool tests, when I had gut infections, yes, I was doing things to soothe my gut, but simply just treated, the infections alone got the inflammation down. And part of that process of treating the infections was using enzymes, because my digestion was so terrible, I would get exhausted after a meal. And that was a sign that I had low stomach acid. So I would say the enzyme should be on our list here, because so many people do to age due to stress. Maybe you’re eating in a loud restaurant, like you’re on your lunch break for work, and you’re listening to us or there’s music, boom, boom, boom in the background, and you’re sympathetically stressed while you’re eating enzymes, to me would be a good insurance policy to help break down your foods and then therefore reduce inflammation.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, foods are not broken down properly, they’re going to sit, they’re going to ferment, they’re going to purify, they’re going to read certify also, those foods are more likely to create hydrogen and methane gases because they’re fermenting, and those gases can throw off your motility, motility and how you move the bowels. And if the bowels are one too short, or should take too fast on the diarrhea side, you may not absorb those nutrients well. And if they’re too long, on the conservation side, you may reabsorb fecal toxins. And so you know, long or short on the bowel motility can definitely affect absorption or create more toxins in the body. So I think that’s a big one. And then just kind of connecting the enzymes and we could throw HCl in there too, because HCl helps activate enzymes, I would say chewing, chewing and and really just the mastication and healthy eating habits because chewing your food up really fine, allows more surface area for those enzymes and acids to work. So you can have a good amount of enzymes or acids, you only have a couple of chews. you swallow your food, those enzymes and acids aren’t gonna work as good as you really chew it up, you know, 30 to choose one chew per tooth, you know, ideally like an oatmeal like consistencies and allow those enzymes and acids to work better.
Evan Brand: Yeah, I’m 18th down. So I guess I get off the hook with 32. You know, I have my wisdom teeth and my 12 year molders out so.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, yeah, there you go. I mean, I have my wisdom teeth out as well. So I’m kind of at 28 as well. So I get it. So let’s just say 30 plus or minus a couple.
Evan Brand: It’s hard. I’ve tried to do that I’ve tried to do that many choose, oh man, my jaw gets tired. So and that’s the that’s the problem too, that we have with our food is like you go to Chipotle, a for example. Everything’s really soft. Like if you get rice if you get like carnitas. Or if you get the chicken, you barely have to chew it. It’s almost like mush. So I try to personally seek out occasionally I will seek out whether it’s like beef jerky, or no bison jerky or even just a steak, you know, I try to really get something that works my job because I just feel like in America, our food is so soft and easily digestible, that we don’t have to really chew anymore.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, so if you have a nice steak or a nice whole chicken, just make sure you chew it up. Same thing goes with over hydrating, you know, try to get your first thing I do is and I get to go eat a meal, I kind of go to the reverse osmosis filter, get a nice big glass of water to add some minerals, one, two, and then I get my meal going that way it gives me 10 15 minutes or so for everything to absorb. And of course the colder the water you got to take a little bit longer because your body holds that water in your stomach, heats it up to about room temperature and then passes it through. So the colder that water is, the longer you should wait in between the meal
About mushrooms. This is something that you know, just doing a little bit of research before we hit record, that this is something that I don’t necessarily go to right out of the gate but I’ve been using mushrooms for a long time. I know you and I personally have been taking mushrooms for a long time. And it turns out that for example, Lion’s Mane mushroom has some really, I would say probably just as impressive as some of the other herbs you’re mentioning, whether it’s like dgl, licorice or marshmallow kind of the conventional gut healing ones. Lion’s Mane has some really awesome anti inflammatory properties. There were two papers that we had found here on Lion’s Mane mushroom being shown to protect from and shrink gastric ulcers. Also, Lion’s Mane was shown to significantly improve symptoms of two major inflammatory disorders of the digestive system. And so that’s cool, because normally we’re using Lion’s Mane for cognitive problems. I know for me, my brain is much more clear. I’ve got Lion’s Mane mushroom in my system right now. I took two capsules this morning, and I certainly feel it mentally. But I did not even think that I was feeling it in my gut. So that’s cool.
Totally. Yeah, that gets really important. Again, a lot of gut issues, the immune system can be a big player at it. And so of course, if you’re able to modulate the immune system with the medicinal mushrooms, or immunogenic compounds that are going to be in those mushrooms, whether it’s beta one, three, D glucan, whatever that is, it could have an effect on gut permeability and improving digestion. I think all that’s very, very important. Also, just kind of one pet peeve of mine. Someone in the comments was chatting about this. A lot of people when they talk about leaky gut, they talk about leaky gut like like it’s the cause of Problem. leaky gut is the effects of on what’s happening with the gut. So the more inflamed you are, the more you’re not breaking down your food. The more crappy The food is, the more inflammatory The food is, the more dysbiosis we have, the the lack of certain nutrients we have, the more stress we are right. All that then creates and increases the chance of gut permeability. Gut permeability isn’t the cause unto itself. It’s the effects of a lot of other issues happening. So when people talk about Oh, you gotta fix the leaky gut. It’s like, not necessarily, you know, it’s like, it’s like saying, Oh, we have to fix. Imagine you have a leak in your roof and the waters pulling on the carpet below you. So we got to fix that water on the floor. It’s like, No, no, you fix the hole in the roof. And again, it may be semantics, but we got to call a spade a spade. If the water’s coming into the roof, you talk to them, we got to fix the hole in the roof. You don’t say we fixed the the water on the ground, right? So I just want everyone I want to train everyone to kind of get thinking about things from a root cause standpoint, versus labeling the damage at the end result conventional medicines really good at labeling damage down here and not talking about the effects of top that should the cause up top there labeling the effects down here. So we want to go root cause?
Yeah, that’s great. And I’m sure we could come up with other analogies on it. But that makes a lot of sense. It’s kind of like, okay, we need to come in with the towel. Oh, no. Now we have this super absorbent towel, this towel is going to absorb 1000 times more water on your floor than any other towel. And then yes, this, this carpet is mold resistant. So if you use this carpet, that water in your carpet won’t create mold, but you’re still missing the frickin hole in the roof roof.
Exactly, exactly. So we just got to really be on top of that. Make sure everyone’s thinking root cause I think that’s really helpful.
Well, let’s call it out. Let’s call out why that happens, though. It’s simply money. And it’s the supplement industry. There’s a lot of money. Yeah, it’s marketing. There’s a lot of money made on leaky gut this and this leaky gut book and this leaky gut protocol and this leaky gut practitioner. The problem is you could take all these leaky gut support for a decade and never treat the infections like if you just went and did like you mentioned glutamine, and we hit the zinc carnosine and the dgl. And we did the aloe, like we talked about in the beginning, none of those are going to erase a blastocyst is hominis, parasite infection, none of those are going to get rid of Giardia. None of those are going to treat the H pylori, they may help. But they’re definitely not going to eradicate the issue causing the leaky gut in the first place. So that’s just marketing. It’s money involved in this. And, you know, as practitioners, I think it’s really smart of you to call it out like that, because it’s, it is frustrating for us because we’ll look on a new client or new patients intake form. And they’ll be taking all these quote leaky gut supplements. Yeah, I found this leaky gut protocol online, and I still have all these digestive problems. And it’s like, well, yeah, look at your stool test, you have all these issues. And you could do that for 20 years and never fix it. So I could rant on that all day.
Yeah, other thing I would just say out of the gates is it’s okay to palliative Li support the leaky gut, we just have to make sure when you’re palliative Li supporting something we’re also root cause supporting it as well root cause fixing it. Palliative support, totally fine, right. Nothing wrong with that we just got to call a spade a spade and and not pretend the palliative leaky gut support is root cause support. Yeah, long as we can do that, then I think we’re pretty good. Next thing I would highlight out of the gates and you see this herb being listed as being very helpful for the gut permeability, but it’s also very helpful on the adrenal. So that’s licorice. And so when we use licorice is a lot of licorice being used in leaky gut supports. That’s that’s d glycerides. And this is the glycerides component of the licorice is pulled out. And the glycerides component of a licorice is is the component that slows the breakdown of cortisol, I think it’s the 11 beta hydroxy steroid dehydrogenase to enzyme. The licorice inhibits that enzyme. That’s the enzyme that helps break down cortisol. So we know cortisol too low, we need healthy levels of cortisol to actually build up the gut lining. It helps with building up the gut lining. Of course, if our cortisol levels are too high, and we’re chronically stressed, right, that can also break down the gut lining. We know that with people that are chronically stressed getting ulcers, right, we know that as well. And so when we look at licorice, it really helps with cortisol improvement. So if we do a cortisol test, and we see chronically low cortisol, that can actually help with the gut lining with the mucosa with the stomach with the duodenum. And that can actually help with the cortisol bringing that back up. And that can help build back up that gut lining. And so we like licorice, that’s non diglycerides for the gut and Nanda glycerides licorice, we give it typically orally sublingually, to our patients, that will eventually trickle downstream to the gut as well. And so licorice can be a powerful thing. You just have to be careful if you’re giving a non diglycerides version that people that have already higher level of cortisol, that may make things worse. So we just got to make sure we’re testing that to know what kind of pattern we’re seeing.
Yeah, that’s a good point. So we could do a whole part two on that. If you want. Give us some feedback. Like maybe the gut hormone connection. And we could hit that in detail. But yeah, you highlighted a very important point, which is that cortisol is involved with this whole process. And it really is a Goldilocks zone. If you have too little cortisol, you’re exhausted. And you’re probably going to be dependent on stimulants and caffeine and sugar and things that are going to damage your gut. But then simply, you don’t have enough to build up the gut. And then if you have too much, now you’re catabolic, you’re breaking down your muscle tissue, and you’re breaking down your gut barrier. That’s probably part of the reason that I lost a lot of weight and a lot of muscle. When I first moved to Texas, I had gut infections, and I was incredibly stressed, just moving and leaving my family behind, you know, emotional stuff, homesickness gut infections, I had the perfect storm to tear up my gut. So I can tell you firsthand that adrenal supports did help. And that was probably because it was helping regulate the cortisol levels, which then in turn, took the load off my gut, so to speak.
100% Yeah, I like that. And so it’s good to really make sure that’s under control.
Evan Brand: How about probiotics? I think it’s worth mentioning. These are totally valuable tools that can help regulate histamine. Yeah, and regulate bacteria with it. So let’s dive into that.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, so you have to you I said you have three to four big families. Okay. So you typically have your lactobacillus and bifidobacterium, which are typically come together and usually a good high quality broad spectrum probiotic. So my line we have one called profile, Florida doesn’t have a lot of the different lactobacillus whether it’s kci acidophilus Bulgaria’s brevis, rhamnosus. And then of course, you have a lot of the bifidobacterium whether it’s bifidobacterium, bifidum, longum, brevis, right. So those are your broad spectrum lactobacillus or bifidobacterium. Probiotics, lots of good data, lots of good research anywhere from food poisoning for inflammation reduction, gut permeability reduction. nutrient absorption is all kinds of different studies connecting the dots on those so that’s kind of the bifidobacteria, lactobacillus Of course, we have more of our spore based or soil based probiotics. These are going to be a lot of your bacillus strains, right, whether it’s bacillus, subtlest class ei coagulans, like Informix, right. These are the bacillus strains. These are really good if you are very much cebo sensitive, fodmap sensitive, we may use some of these over a bifido lactobacillus species. And then of course, I’m a big fan of the probiotic that’s kind of more of a beneficial yeast called Saccharomyces boulardii in my lammie, one called sacral flora, again, we’ll put the links below for for all y’all so if you want to see it, we’ll put the links below sacral Flora Saccharomyces boulardii is very helpful a lot of studies on it, helping to improve immunity in the gut IGA IGA levels going to get low and just gut inflammation or gut stress. Of course, it’s going to help with food poisoning a lot of studies on it helping with H. pylori, C. diff, Clostridium difficile, blastocystis hominess. It also helps crowd out yeast and Candida so there’s a lot of excellent benefits with saccharomyces we love it and it’s usually going to be a core part of my probiotic, my fifth r which is repopulation re inoculation on the good healthy probiotics, once the fourth hour is done right fourth hours and to be removing the gut bugs removing the gut infections. Fifth hour, we come in repopulate re inoculate with good bacteria. Most people kind of sweet they want to start probiotics sooner, and that may not be the best step. Not saying it may not help. But some people have just found one that’s just a lot of pills. And two, if they have a lot of bad bugs in there. It’s like going and getting a whole bunch of good fresh grass seeds throw down on a lawn full of weeds, right? You got to get the weeds done before we throw down the seeds right got to get the car washed or we get waxed.
Evan Brand: Kind of like that. Yeah, we had a lot of good feedback on the podcast we did remember we were talking about probiotics and how a lot of new research is showing probiotics are being used to help with getting out mycotoxins and we know that mold toxins damage the gut. So yes, so I have been I’ve honestly been working in probiotics into the protocol sooner and most people do well. There are some like you said that just don’t you got to pull the weeds before you throw the seeds. But there are a lot of people doing really good with throwing probiotics and sooner in the protocols now. So like you said, if they can handle the amount of pills, maybe we try to sneak one or two in or we could do like powdered versions, typically, it’s like a quarter teaspoon, we could throw in a blend like that sack be you could you could do powder and maybe throw it in a smoothie or something. So we are trying to integrate those a lot. And I’ve had amazing success personally with probiotics. So I think it’s interesting, there’s still a lot of people that poopoo probiotic probiotics I know you and I we kind of get, you know, so caught up in the clinical trenches that we may miss some things, but I do get a couple of emails, you know, here and there from from people, clients sending them like, hey, this guy like says probiotics are a waste of money, and you know, that they don’t work. And I would just say that’s not true. We have so much clinical data personally.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s all about context, right? It’s like if someone comes in, they have chronic gut issues, and they’re just taking a probiotic thinking that that’s going to be the answer to their gut problems. It’s probably not right, and that’s where we’re trying to have a comprehensive functional medicine plan. That’s root cause and not just trying to Pro supplements at the wall thinking that that’s going to fix it. So yeah, I understand if that you know where that person is coming up with that, that bias that biases from not having a comprehensive root cause plan with a functional medicine practitioner, they’re just trying to throw stuff at them instead it hoping it will fix the symptoms, not fix the root cause.
Well, here’s Yeah, good, good point. Here’s the other thing, too, it’s even some probiotic companies will say that about other companies, it’s more of a marketing thing like, hey, their probiotic is crap, or it doesn’t work because of X, Y, or Z. But I will just say with what you and I use, clinically, we’re using professional supplement manufacturers exclusive only to health care providers. And a lot of the stuff we use, we have extended release technology. So when arguments like probiotics are going to die in the stomach, they’re not even going to make it to where they need to. But a lot of the new technology we use, they’re not even going to break open, they’re going to be resistant to the stomach acid. So that’s another problem too, when you hear these little like, super sometimes buzzworthy type articles. It’s not taking into consideration the quality, the quantity, the purity, the potency, the technology involved, it’s like probiotics, they get the label, and then that’s it. And that’s just not a fair classification.
Correct. And then also consumer reports that a study on probiotics a couple years back maybe 5 10 years ago. And what they found is most probiotics that they put a number on the outside of the bottle, hey, this is how many colony forming units. And what a lot of the cheap companies do is they say, Okay, this is how many should have been in this probiotic at manufacturing of this product. Let’s say it’s 20 billion. Now, what the professional companies do is, right, when you’re buying high quality, professional ingredients, they’re gonna say this is how many colony forming units should be in this capsule at expiration. And so you’re looking at something like two to three times the amount of those that species that CFU on the bottle colony forming units, is going to be typically in there. So when you see like, in my probiotic, I think it’s 40 billion per two capsules, right? That’s going to be what’s in there two years from now at expiration, right? And so obviously, it’s going to be two to three times the amount of that before. And so you want to use professional companies. So what you see on the label is always worst case, scenario, number one, and then also how products are stored by professional companies is very important. So like, where we have our warehouses, like everything is stored in an air conditioned or a refrigerated environment for a lot of our probiotics, some don’t necessarily need that. But which we value, the the scenario and how that store because that really increases potency, too.
Evan Brand: Yeah. And the funny thing is, too, we’ve seen some papers on supposedly expiration dates, you know, this is something that you and I are forced to do with the professional companies we work with. But you know, we’ve seen some research on supplements from 2030 years ago, still being viable, meaning they still had some potency and purity to them. And obviously, they still had a biological effect. So to me, I would if I had to pick like a consumer shelf bought probiotic, or a suppose that expired professional product, I’m going to go for the supposedly expired product, I’d go for a five year old professional probiotic, then, you know, on the shelf today consumer level.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, exactly. And also a lot of the probiotics or supplements that require refrigeration on the warehousing side, a lot of times you’re just not going to get that on Amazon, you’re not going to get that level of specificity just because that’s not how their warehouses are set up. And so with ours, we make sure that that refrigeration components is there because we’re working with patients and we need we need that potency, because we’re trying to get clinical outcomes, right. We’re trying to sell and provide a clinical outcome for the patient. And if we’re just providing products that aren’t meeting that standard, we’re not going to win. And of course, we want to be successful on that front.
Evan Brand: Yeah, yeah. Well say Well, I think we covered a lot of it. So the mushrooms are beneficial Lion’s Mane the mushroom is amazing for the brain, but for the gut also Chaga mushroom would be great reishi mushroom could also deserve a good mention, you hit upon the amino acids. So the glutamine or the various types of glucose amines involved. We love amino acids, we use those all the time you mentioned like collagen also being you know, part of that makeup, we hit on some of the herbs like the the licorice, or the dgl version of it, the marshmallow, we like to use a lot, we hit upon the aloe, and then we hit the probiotics, I think those are the big categories. And then the enzymes we hit that too.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think we did a really good job hitting a couple and I just I really want to plug in concepts, right? Like a lot of people, they just try to throw information at people and and try to memorize that. I think that’s not beneficial. But if you can just understand concepts, right? A concept is just something that sticks. You either get it or you don’t. And so we try to use a lot of analogies and understand we try to plug in a lot of the concepts of root cause versus palliative cause. We try to get you to think about, hey, if this helps, why does it help? is it just an anti inflammatory? is it helping just improve better digestion? is it helping your immune system? is it helping your adrenals and helping you that your body’s natural process to build back up that gut lining? What’s the underlying mechanisms if you understand that, then you see how it plugs into the greater matrix of healing.
Evan Brand: Yeah, I mean, I agree 1,000%. So, I think the big concept of today is Yes, here are some things here are some nutrients you can use. However, we really want to make sure you’re testing, not guessing. So if you do need the aloe to calm the gut for now, you need the enzymes to help improve digestion. For now, you notice that HCl is helping with your heartburn or you notice that the enzymes are reducing your bloating, or your burping or your gas. Great, but what led to all that in the first place? What led you to need the aloe because you had gut inflammation, what led you to need the enzymes, that’s where somebody like us can come in and help you figure that out and plot it on paper. And, you know, we’ve been through the trenches personally. And clinically, we’re always improving upon herself. You know, I work on my children, I know you work on your children, we’re giving our kids things to help their guts, I mean, so this is like a, there’s no finish line, I don’t want people to think, Hey, I just do this aloe for a month, and then I’m done. You know, there’s not a finish line with the gut, we’re constantly being exposed to new toxins and new pathogens. We’ve even seen with the virus that’s been going around a lot of issues with the gut there, we’ve seen a lot of issue with tissue destruction in the intestinal tract. So who knows? Right now with the 5 10 year outlook of the GI health in the US is right now, our guts are notoriously bad, due to glyphosate and other things, damaging them. So just a quick note, you kind of started with the diet all and with the diet 100% organic is important, if you’re going to go buy all these probiotics, but yet, you’re going to eat strawberries with an average of 22 pesticides on them. If they’re not organic, you’re wasting your frickin time and your money because we know all those pesticides are just killing the beneficial bacteria in your gut that you’re trying to re inoculate or repopulate with. So please go organic, you know, before you spend money on probiotics.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. And then also how long do these probiotic strains last in your gut, I mean, a lot of times, you’re going to see the data show in about one month or so. So that they don’t stay forever. So when you take a probiotic, it’s not like it’s there forever. So it’ll it’ll hang around typically for a month, it’ll help with a nutrient synthesis, it’ll help with nutrient absorption, it’ll help with inflammation, modulating the immune system, there’s some data that maybe the spore based probiotics hang around a little bit longer, and they may help proliferate the growth of other beneficial species. So just think when you take a probiotic, it’s not forever. Now the goal is that we’re getting some level of fermentable foods in your diet, whether it’s from sauerkraut, or low sugar kombucha, or some kind of fermented pickle or something, or, you know, cultured coconut milk or potentially high quality raw milk if you can tolerate it. So you know, that’s typically how we’re getting exposed to probiotics more on a day in weekend kind of situation. If you’re someone that can’t get that level of exposure with fermented oils from food, then you probably want to be on a probiotic a little bit more frequently, if you’re not getting those fermentable. So we just got to plug and play where we’re at. I think our ancestors probably did more fermentable foods, which is ideal. But if we can’t we plug in a good quality probiotic, or at least throw in something every couple of months, just to kind of fill in the gap to make sure we’re getting exposed to those good for mandibles.
Evan Brand: Yeah, great point, I just want to highlight what you said too, which is like your gut bacteria are actually going to help you with your health in other ways. So once gut bacteria optimize your healing the gut, you’re making neurotransmitters the way you should you’re making serotonin, you’re making things to improve yourself, you’re making B vitamins to help your energy and your mitochondria. So this is why I really the gut, I mean, we just we can’t stop talking about it because it literally is the foundation.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. So just kind of want to make sure that is understood. And that makes sense for everyone. We’ll put a list of recommended products down below. So you guys have access to those you want to support us support the show, we appreciate it put those down below. Also, if you guys want to reach out to Evan brand, head over to EvanBrand.com, Evan is there for you guys worldwide. And again, I’m there for you as well, justinhealth.com, Dr. J myself, there’ll be a little link button, you guys can click and reach out to us we are available worldwide to help you guys help you help support y’all. We want to make sure they have the support you need. And you have a good comprehensive plan to get what’s going in the right direction if you’re not having success. And then also just try to apply one thing today as well. If you’re having if you’re overwhelmed, and you’re having a sticking point great to reach out, if not just try applying this information, we want to really help as many people as possible. And we know we’re going to help many more people than we actually see in person with this information. So just make sure you’re applying it. And if you are enjoying it, share it with family and friends that could also benefit put your comments down below. Let me know the best part that you liked about this what resonate with you the most. And give us a like and share as well. We appreciate it.
Evan Brand: Yeah, and if you’re on the apple listening, if you’re on your Apple podcast app or Stitcher or wherever else, give us some stars, let us know what you think the show deserves between us both we have I lost count, but it was somewhere over 705 star reviews for our podcast in between our various feeds. So please give us some stars. Give us some sentences give us a blurb on whether you still call it iTunes or Apple podcast. We’d love to beat out people that are not clinically oriented. There’s still like top health podcast out there that it’s just theory theory theory theory. And then we have to like recalibrate people’s theories because they’re not clinically based. So we would love to beat those people. How do we beat those Before we go higher in the charts, how do we do that? With your reviews! So we have a some stars.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Thanks to all you guys have a phenomenal day. Take careDr. Justin Marchegiani
Hey guys, it’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani here. Today’s podcast is we’re going to be talking about the top five nutrients to address gut inflammation, and leaky gut or gut permeability. So this is a topic that’s pertinent to a lot of our patients as gut inflammation, there’s usually some component in why they’re not feeling good. So I’m really excited to address this today with Evan, we’re gonna dive into the things that we do clinically, the things that work with our patients, the things that actually get results, we’ll break it down, and we’ll kind of give you guys some action items for today as well. And what’s cooking man? How are we doing?
Evan Brand: Hey, you’re doing really well. And you know, we always come up with a title. And then we over deliver on that title. So we’re calling this something along the lines of top five nutrients to help your gut or to heal your gut or support intestinal permeability, but maybe we end up going over five. So I’m just gonna go straight to my favorite because it’s so easy. It’s so broad spectrum in its use. And it’s so safe for people across the board to use it, whether it’s kids, adults, the elderly population, even people that don’t have testing, you know, our philosophy is test don’t guess we want to have the data, we want to have good stool testing, and good organic acids testing to look into the gut deeper and figure out what’s going on under the hood. But there is usually a three, sometimes four week timeline between talking with a client or a new patient and then getting the test results. So what do we do to help these people in that in between time before we can do the real work based on the data, I’d say my favorite is probably aloe, and specifically you and I use an aloe extract. It’s a 200 to one, so it’s 200 pounds of gel converted to one pound of extract, and then that’s encapsulated. We had a young boy, not super young, maybe 16 17. But he was diagnosed with autoimmune gut issues, Crohn’s all sort of colitis, actually pan colitis where the whole digestive tract was affected major bleeding in the store. We got him on simply a 200 to one extract of aloe. And within three weeks, we did a new gi map stool test, and we dropped his calprotectin levels, which is his gut inflammation by 1000 points, just by aloe alone.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Unbelievable. Yeah, it’s powerful what nutrients can do now I always tell patients, if you’re trying to come in and make some changes out of the gates, I mean, your best bang for your buck would be fixing the food, because the food is constantly getting your body getting your gut in flames. So the first thing we can do is look at the the the inflammatory food that could be coming in this could be gluten or other technically gluten free grains like corn, oat, rice, those kinds of things. So you want to really get the grains out, you want to really get a lot of the poly polyunsaturated omega six vegetable oils. And again, the reason why vegetable oils tend to be more, let’s say poor is because they’re highly processed to extract the fat. And the processing actually damages the fat and creates free radical stress within those fats. Because the more you take in damaged fats, your body has to utilize antioxidants to stabilize the fats. So they don’t create free radicals. And so it depletes a lot of your antioxidants. And then those fast take on and become part of your cell membrane. And to have healthy cells you have to have good membrane. Because the membrane essentially is the brain of your cell. It provides a lot of good cellular communication happens with the membrane. So if you have junky fats, whether it’s omega six junky fats, or trans fats like hydrogenated soybean oil, right, those kinds of things, canola, you know, safflower, those are going to be more junky omega six, and they’re going to really not make the healthiest cell membranes, they’re going to deplete your antioxidant reserves. And if they’re on the trans fat side, they’ll make your cell membranes very inflexible too.
Evan Brand: Yeah, good point. And I apologize for skipping over the diet piece, you know, you think of the typical American person, they think, just give me the pill. Give me the magic remedy. So we’ll talk about some of those remedies. But yeah, you make a great point, you can’t go out to Pizza Hut for dinner, and then just take an aloe capsule, and everything’s going to be okay. Correct.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. So that’s it’s good to look at the foundation out of the gates. I’d also say like, I’ll just kind of put this next category into a broad category and just say, amino acids. And these amino acids could be things like an acetylglucosamine, NaG that could be things like glycine, which are going to be very high in collagen or bone broth. And they could also be things like glutamine, so I kind of put these in the amino acid bucket, when they tend to be very good support for the entire sites of the gut lining, that can be used as fuel for the gut lining, they also can help with gut permeability. And, and glycine is a really good backbone for connective tissue. So it can be very helpful for that lot of that connective tissue healing out of the gates.
Evan Brand: So how about enzymes? When you hear nutrients to heal the gut or support the gut, you don’t necessarily think about enzymes, you think of more like you mentioned, the glutamine, Aloe, the kind of calming, soothing things, but I would argue enzymes have a role in helping with reducing gut inflammation simply by improving digestion and reducing the putrifying and fermenting of foods because I know my gut was Super inflamed. If I look back at some of my original stool tests, when I had gut infections, yes, I was doing things to soothe my gut, but simply just treated, the infections alone got the inflammation down. And part of that process of treating the infections was using enzymes, because my digestion was so terrible, I would get exhausted after a meal. And that was a sign that I had low stomach acid. So I would say the enzyme should be on our list here, because so many people do to age due to stress. Maybe you’re eating in a loud restaurant, like you’re on your lunch break for work, and you’re listening to us or there’s music, boom, boom, boom in the background, and you’re sympathetically stressed while you’re eating enzymes, to me would be a good insurance policy to help break down your foods and then therefore reduce inflammation.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, foods are not broken down properly, they’re going to sit, they’re going to ferment, they’re going to purify, they’re going to read certify also, those foods are more likely to create hydrogen and methane gases because they’re fermenting, and those gases can throw off your motility, motility and how you move the bowels. And if the bowels are one too short, or should take too fast on the diarrhea side, you may not absorb those nutrients well. And if they’re too long, on the conservation side, you may reabsorb fecal toxins. And so you know, long or short on the bowel motility can definitely affect absorption or create more toxins in the body. So I think that’s a big one. And then just kind of connecting the enzymes and we could throw HCl in there too, because HCl helps activate enzymes, I would say chewing, chewing and and really just the mastication and healthy eating habits because chewing your food up really fine, allows more surface area for those enzymes and acids to work. So you can have a good amount of enzymes or acids, you only have a couple of chews. you swallow your food, those enzymes and acids aren’t gonna work as good as you really chew it up, you know, 30 to choose one chew per tooth, you know, ideally like an oatmeal like consistencies and allow those enzymes and acids to work better.
Evan Brand: Yeah, I’m 18th down. So I guess I get off the hook with 32. You know, I have my wisdom teeth and my 12 year molders out so.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, yeah, there you go. I mean, I have my wisdom teeth out as well. So I’m kind of at 28 as well. So I get it. So let’s just say 30 plus or minus a couple.
Evan Brand: It’s hard. I’ve tried to do that I’ve tried to do that many choose, oh man, my jaw gets tired. So and that’s the that’s the problem too, that we have with our food is like you go to Chipotle, a for example. Everything’s really soft. Like if you get rice if you get like carnitas. Or if you get the chicken, you barely have to chew it. It’s almost like mush. So I try to personally seek out occasionally I will seek out whether it’s like beef jerky, or no bison jerky or even just a steak, you know, I try to really get something that works my job because I just feel like in America, our food is so soft and easily digestible, that we don’t have to really chew anymore.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, so if you have a nice steak or a nice whole chicken, just make sure you chew it up. Same thing goes with over hydrating, you know, try to get your first thing I do is and I get to go eat a meal, I kind of go to the reverse osmosis filter, get a nice big glass of water to add some minerals, one, two, and then I get my meal going that way it gives me 10 15 minutes or so for everything to absorb. And of course the colder the water you got to take a little bit longer because your body holds that water in your stomach, heats it up to about room temperature and then passes it through. So the colder that water is, the longer you should wait in between the meal
About mushrooms. This is something that you know, just doing a little bit of research before we hit record, that this is something that I don’t necessarily go to right out of the gate but I’ve been using mushrooms for a long time. I know you and I personally have been taking mushrooms for a long time. And it turns out that for example, Lion’s Mane mushroom has some really, I would say probably just as impressive as some of the other herbs you’re mentioning, whether it’s like dgl, licorice or marshmallow kind of the conventional gut healing ones. Lion’s Mane has some really awesome anti inflammatory properties. There were two papers that we had found here on Lion’s Mane mushroom being shown to protect from and shrink gastric ulcers. Also, Lion’s Mane was shown to significantly improve symptoms of two major inflammatory disorders of the digestive system. And so that’s cool, because normally we’re using Lion’s Mane for cognitive problems. I know for me, my brain is much more clear. I’ve got Lion’s Mane mushroom in my system right now. I took two capsules this morning, and I certainly feel it mentally. But I did not even think that I was feeling it in my gut. So that’s cool.
Totally. Yeah, that gets really important. Again, a lot of gut issues, the immune system can be a big player at it. And so of course, if you’re able to modulate the immune system with the medicinal mushrooms, or immunogenic compounds that are going to be in those mushrooms, whether it’s beta one, three, D glucan, whatever that is, it could have an effect on gut permeability and improving digestion. I think all that’s very, very important. Also, just kind of one pet peeve of mine. Someone in the comments was chatting about this. A lot of people when they talk about leaky gut, they talk about leaky gut like like it’s the cause of Problem. leaky gut is the effects of on what’s happening with the gut. So the more inflamed you are, the more you’re not breaking down your food. The more crappy The food is, the more inflammatory The food is, the more dysbiosis we have, the the lack of certain nutrients we have, the more stress we are right. All that then creates and increases the chance of gut permeability. Gut permeability isn’t the cause unto itself. It’s the effects of a lot of other issues happening. So when people talk about Oh, you gotta fix the leaky gut. It’s like, not necessarily, you know, it’s like, it’s like saying, Oh, we have to fix. Imagine you have a leak in your roof and the waters pulling on the carpet below you. So we got to fix that water on the floor. It’s like, No, no, you fix the hole in the roof. And again, it may be semantics, but we got to call a spade a spade. If the water’s coming into the roof, you talk to them, we got to fix the hole in the roof. You don’t say we fixed the the water on the ground, right? So I just want everyone I want to train everyone to kind of get thinking about things from a root cause standpoint, versus labeling the damage at the end result conventional medicines really good at labeling damage down here and not talking about the effects of top that should the cause up top there labeling the effects down here. So we want to go root cause?
Yeah, that’s great. And I’m sure we could come up with other analogies on it. But that makes a lot of sense. It’s kind of like, okay, we need to come in with the towel. Oh, no. Now we have this super absorbent towel, this towel is going to absorb 1000 times more water on your floor than any other towel. And then yes, this, this carpet is mold resistant. So if you use this carpet, that water in your carpet won’t create mold, but you’re still missing the frickin hole in the roof roof.
Exactly, exactly. So we just got to really be on top of that. Make sure everyone’s thinking root cause I think that’s really helpful.
Well, let’s call it out. Let’s call out why that happens, though. It’s simply money. And it’s the supplement industry. There’s a lot of money. Yeah, it’s marketing. There’s a lot of money made on leaky gut this and this leaky gut book and this leaky gut protocol and this leaky gut practitioner. The problem is you could take all these leaky gut support for a decade and never treat the infections like if you just went and did like you mentioned glutamine, and we hit the zinc carnosine and the dgl. And we did the aloe, like we talked about in the beginning, none of those are going to erase a blastocyst is hominis, parasite infection, none of those are going to get rid of Giardia. None of those are going to treat the H pylori, they may help. But they’re definitely not going to eradicate the issue causing the leaky gut in the first place. So that’s just marketing. It’s money involved in this. And, you know, as practitioners, I think it’s really smart of you to call it out like that, because it’s, it is frustrating for us because we’ll look on a new client or new patients intake form. And they’ll be taking all these quote leaky gut supplements. Yeah, I found this leaky gut protocol online, and I still have all these digestive problems. And it’s like, well, yeah, look at your stool test, you have all these issues. And you could do that for 20 years and never fix it. So I could rant on that all day.
Yeah, other thing I would just say out of the gates is it’s okay to palliative Li support the leaky gut, we just have to make sure when you’re palliative Li supporting something we’re also root cause supporting it as well root cause fixing it. Palliative support, totally fine, right. Nothing wrong with that we just got to call a spade a spade and and not pretend the palliative leaky gut support is root cause support. Yeah, long as we can do that, then I think we’re pretty good. Next thing I would highlight out of the gates and you see this herb being listed as being very helpful for the gut permeability, but it’s also very helpful on the adrenal. So that’s licorice. And so when we use licorice is a lot of licorice being used in leaky gut supports. That’s that’s d glycerides. And this is the glycerides component of the licorice is pulled out. And the glycerides component of a licorice is is the component that slows the breakdown of cortisol, I think it’s the 11 beta hydroxy steroid dehydrogenase to enzyme. The licorice inhibits that enzyme. That’s the enzyme that helps break down cortisol. So we know cortisol too low, we need healthy levels of cortisol to actually build up the gut lining. It helps with building up the gut lining. Of course, if our cortisol levels are too high, and we’re chronically stressed, right, that can also break down the gut lining. We know that with people that are chronically stressed getting ulcers, right, we know that as well. And so when we look at licorice, it really helps with cortisol improvement. So if we do a cortisol test, and we see chronically low cortisol, that can actually help with the gut lining with the mucosa with the stomach with the duodenum. And that can actually help with the cortisol bringing that back up. And that can help build back up that gut lining. And so we like licorice, that’s non diglycerides for the gut and Nanda glycerides licorice, we give it typically orally sublingually, to our patients, that will eventually trickle downstream to the gut as well. And so licorice can be a powerful thing. You just have to be careful if you’re giving a non diglycerides version that people that have already higher level of cortisol, that may make things worse. So we just got to make sure we’re testing that to know what kind of pattern we’re seeing.
Yeah, that’s a good point. So we could do a whole part two on that. If you want. Give us some feedback. Like maybe the gut hormone connection. And we could hit that in detail. But yeah, you highlighted a very important point, which is that cortisol is involved with this whole process. And it really is a Goldilocks zone. If you have too little cortisol, you’re exhausted. And you’re probably going to be dependent on stimulants and caffeine and sugar and things that are going to damage your gut. But then simply, you don’t have enough to build up the gut. And then if you have too much, now you’re catabolic, you’re breaking down your muscle tissue, and you’re breaking down your gut barrier. That’s probably part of the reason that I lost a lot of weight and a lot of muscle. When I first moved to Texas, I had gut infections, and I was incredibly stressed, just moving and leaving my family behind, you know, emotional stuff, homesickness gut infections, I had the perfect storm to tear up my gut. So I can tell you firsthand that adrenal supports did help. And that was probably because it was helping regulate the cortisol levels, which then in turn, took the load off my gut, so to speak.
100% Yeah, I like that. And so it’s good to really make sure that’s under control.
Evan Brand: How about probiotics? I think it’s worth mentioning. These are totally valuable tools that can help regulate histamine. Yeah, and regulate bacteria with it. So let’s dive into that.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, so you have to you I said you have three to four big families. Okay. So you typically have your lactobacillus and bifidobacterium, which are typically come together and usually a good high quality broad spectrum probiotic. So my line we have one called profile, Florida doesn’t have a lot of the different lactobacillus whether it’s kci acidophilus Bulgaria’s brevis, rhamnosus. And then of course, you have a lot of the bifidobacterium whether it’s bifidobacterium, bifidum, longum, brevis, right. So those are your broad spectrum lactobacillus or bifidobacterium. Probiotics, lots of good data, lots of good research anywhere from food poisoning for inflammation reduction, gut permeability reduction. nutrient absorption is all kinds of different studies connecting the dots on those so that’s kind of the bifidobacteria, lactobacillus Of course, we have more of our spore based or soil based probiotics. These are going to be a lot of your bacillus strains, right, whether it’s bacillus, subtlest class ei coagulans, like Informix, right. These are the bacillus strains. These are really good if you are very much cebo sensitive, fodmap sensitive, we may use some of these over a bifido lactobacillus species. And then of course, I’m a big fan of the probiotic that’s kind of more of a beneficial yeast called Saccharomyces boulardii in my lammie, one called sacral flora, again, we’ll put the links below for for all y’all so if you want to see it, we’ll put the links below sacral Flora Saccharomyces boulardii is very helpful a lot of studies on it, helping to improve immunity in the gut IGA IGA levels going to get low and just gut inflammation or gut stress. Of course, it’s going to help with food poisoning a lot of studies on it helping with H. pylori, C. diff, Clostridium difficile, blastocystis hominess. It also helps crowd out yeast and Candida so there’s a lot of excellent benefits with saccharomyces we love it and it’s usually going to be a core part of my probiotic, my fifth r which is repopulation re inoculation on the good healthy probiotics, once the fourth hour is done right fourth hours and to be removing the gut bugs removing the gut infections. Fifth hour, we come in repopulate re inoculate with good bacteria. Most people kind of sweet they want to start probiotics sooner, and that may not be the best step. Not saying it may not help. But some people have just found one that’s just a lot of pills. And two, if they have a lot of bad bugs in there. It’s like going and getting a whole bunch of good fresh grass seeds throw down on a lawn full of weeds, right? You got to get the weeds done before we throw down the seeds right got to get the car washed or we get waxed.
Evan Brand: Kind of like that. Yeah, we had a lot of good feedback on the podcast we did remember we were talking about probiotics and how a lot of new research is showing probiotics are being used to help with getting out mycotoxins and we know that mold toxins damage the gut. So yes, so I have been I’ve honestly been working in probiotics into the protocol sooner and most people do well. There are some like you said that just don’t you got to pull the weeds before you throw the seeds. But there are a lot of people doing really good with throwing probiotics and sooner in the protocols now. So like you said, if they can handle the amount of pills, maybe we try to sneak one or two in or we could do like powdered versions, typically, it’s like a quarter teaspoon, we could throw in a blend like that sack be you could you could do powder and maybe throw it in a smoothie or something. So we are trying to integrate those a lot. And I’ve had amazing success personally with probiotics. So I think it’s interesting, there’s still a lot of people that poopoo probiotic probiotics I know you and I we kind of get, you know, so caught up in the clinical trenches that we may miss some things, but I do get a couple of emails, you know, here and there from from people, clients sending them like, hey, this guy like says probiotics are a waste of money, and you know, that they don’t work. And I would just say that’s not true. We have so much clinical data personally.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s all about context, right? It’s like if someone comes in, they have chronic gut issues, and they’re just taking a probiotic thinking that that’s going to be the answer to their gut problems. It’s probably not right, and that’s where we’re trying to have a comprehensive functional medicine plan. That’s root cause and not just trying to Pro supplements at the wall thinking that that’s going to fix it. So yeah, I understand if that you know where that person is coming up with that, that bias that biases from not having a comprehensive root cause plan with a functional medicine practitioner, they’re just trying to throw stuff at them instead it hoping it will fix the symptoms, not fix the root cause.
Well, here’s Yeah, good, good point. Here’s the other thing, too, it’s even some probiotic companies will say that about other companies, it’s more of a marketing thing like, hey, their probiotic is crap, or it doesn’t work because of X, Y, or Z. But I will just say with what you and I use, clinically, we’re using professional supplement manufacturers exclusive only to health care providers. And a lot of the stuff we use, we have extended release technology. So when arguments like probiotics are going to die in the stomach, they’re not even going to make it to where they need to. But a lot of the new technology we use, they’re not even going to break open, they’re going to be resistant to the stomach acid. So that’s another problem too, when you hear these little like, super sometimes buzzworthy type articles. It’s not taking into consideration the quality, the quantity, the purity, the potency, the technology involved, it’s like probiotics, they get the label, and then that’s it. And that’s just not a fair classification.
Correct. And then also consumer reports that a study on probiotics a couple years back maybe 5 10 years ago. And what they found is most probiotics that they put a number on the outside of the bottle, hey, this is how many colony forming units. And what a lot of the cheap companies do is they say, Okay, this is how many should have been in this probiotic at manufacturing of this product. Let’s say it’s 20 billion. Now, what the professional companies do is, right, when you’re buying high quality, professional ingredients, they’re gonna say this is how many colony forming units should be in this capsule at expiration. And so you’re looking at something like two to three times the amount of those that species that CFU on the bottle colony forming units, is going to be typically in there. So when you see like, in my probiotic, I think it’s 40 billion per two capsules, right? That’s going to be what’s in there two years from now at expiration, right? And so obviously, it’s going to be two to three times the amount of that before. And so you want to use professional companies. So what you see on the label is always worst case, scenario, number one, and then also how products are stored by professional companies is very important. So like, where we have our warehouses, like everything is stored in an air conditioned or a refrigerated environment for a lot of our probiotics, some don’t necessarily need that. But which we value, the the scenario and how that store because that really increases potency, too.
Evan Brand: Yeah. And the funny thing is, too, we’ve seen some papers on supposedly expiration dates, you know, this is something that you and I are forced to do with the professional companies we work with. But you know, we’ve seen some research on supplements from 2030 years ago, still being viable, meaning they still had some potency and purity to them. And obviously, they still had a biological effect. So to me, I would if I had to pick like a consumer shelf bought probiotic, or a suppose that expired professional product, I’m going to go for the supposedly expired product, I’d go for a five year old professional probiotic, then, you know, on the shelf today consumer level.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, exactly. And also a lot of the probiotics or supplements that require refrigeration on the warehousing side, a lot of times you’re just not going to get that on Amazon, you’re not going to get that level of specificity just because that’s not how their warehouses are set up. And so with ours, we make sure that that refrigeration components is there because we’re working with patients and we need we need that potency, because we’re trying to get clinical outcomes, right. We’re trying to sell and provide a clinical outcome for the patient. And if we’re just providing products that aren’t meeting that standard, we’re not going to win. And of course, we want to be successful on that front.
Evan Brand: Yeah, yeah. Well say Well, I think we covered a lot of it. So the mushrooms are beneficial Lion’s Mane the mushroom is amazing for the brain, but for the gut also Chaga mushroom would be great reishi mushroom could also deserve a good mention, you hit upon the amino acids. So the glutamine or the various types of glucose amines involved. We love amino acids, we use those all the time you mentioned like collagen also being you know, part of that makeup, we hit on some of the herbs like the the licorice, or the dgl version of it, the marshmallow, we like to use a lot, we hit upon the aloe, and then we hit the probiotics, I think those are the big categories. And then the enzymes we hit that too.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think we did a really good job hitting a couple and I just I really want to plug in concepts, right? Like a lot of people, they just try to throw information at people and and try to memorize that. I think that’s not beneficial. But if you can just understand concepts, right? A concept is just something that sticks. You either get it or you don’t. And so we try to use a lot of analogies and understand we try to plug in a lot of the concepts of root cause versus palliative cause. We try to get you to think about, hey, if this helps, why does it help? is it just an anti inflammatory? is it helping just improve better digestion? is it helping your immune system? is it helping your adrenals and helping you that your body’s natural process to build back up that gut lining? What’s the underlying mechanisms if you understand that, then you see how it plugs into the greater matrix of healing.
Evan Brand: Yeah, I mean, I agree 1,000%. So, I think the big concept of today is Yes, here are some things here are some nutrients you can use. However, we really want to make sure you’re testing, not guessing. So if you do need the aloe to calm the gut for now, you need the enzymes to help improve digestion. For now, you notice that HCl is helping with your heartburn or you notice that the enzymes are reducing your bloating, or your burping or your gas. Great, but what led to all that in the first place? What led you to need the aloe because you had gut inflammation, what led you to need the enzymes, that’s where somebody like us can come in and help you figure that out and plot it on paper. And, you know, we’ve been through the trenches personally. And clinically, we’re always improving upon herself. You know, I work on my children, I know you work on your children, we’re giving our kids things to help their guts, I mean, so this is like a, there’s no finish line, I don’t want people to think, Hey, I just do this aloe for a month, and then I’m done. You know, there’s not a finish line with the gut, we’re constantly being exposed to new toxins and new pathogens. We’ve even seen with the virus that’s been going around a lot of issues with the gut there, we’ve seen a lot of issue with tissue destruction in the intestinal tract. So who knows? Right now with the 5 10 year outlook of the GI health in the US is right now, our guts are notoriously bad, due to glyphosate and other things, damaging them. So just a quick note, you kind of started with the diet all and with the diet 100% organic is important, if you’re going to go buy all these probiotics, but yet, you’re going to eat strawberries with an average of 22 pesticides on them. If they’re not organic, you’re wasting your frickin time and your money because we know all those pesticides are just killing the beneficial bacteria in your gut that you’re trying to re inoculate or repopulate with. So please go organic, you know, before you spend money on probiotics.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. And then also how long do these probiotic strains last in your gut, I mean, a lot of times, you’re going to see the data show in about one month or so. So that they don’t stay forever. So when you take a probiotic, it’s not like it’s there forever. So it’ll it’ll hang around typically for a month, it’ll help with a nutrient synthesis, it’ll help with nutrient absorption, it’ll help with inflammation, modulating the immune system, there’s some data that maybe the spore based probiotics hang around a little bit longer, and they may help proliferate the growth of other beneficial species. So just think when you take a probiotic, it’s not forever. Now the goal is that we’re getting some level of fermentable foods in your diet, whether it’s from sauerkraut, or low sugar kombucha, or some kind of fermented pickle or something, or, you know, cultured coconut milk or potentially high quality raw milk if you can tolerate it. So you know, that’s typically how we’re getting exposed to probiotics more on a day in weekend kind of situation. If you’re someone that can’t get that level of exposure with fermented oils from food, then you probably want to be on a probiotic a little bit more frequently, if you’re not getting those fermentable. So we just got to plug and play where we’re at. I think our ancestors probably did more fermentable foods, which is ideal. But if we can’t we plug in a good quality probiotic, or at least throw in something every couple of months, just to kind of fill in the gap to make sure we’re getting exposed to those good for mandibles.
Evan Brand: Yeah, great point, I just want to highlight what you said too, which is like your gut bacteria are actually going to help you with your health in other ways. So once gut bacteria optimize your healing the gut, you’re making neurotransmitters the way you should you’re making serotonin, you’re making things to improve yourself, you’re making B vitamins to help your energy and your mitochondria. So this is why I really the gut, I mean, we just we can’t stop talking about it because it literally is the foundation.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. So just kind of want to make sure that is understood. And that makes sense for everyone. We’ll put a list of recommended products down below. So you guys have access to those you want to support us support the show, we appreciate it put those down below. Also, if you guys want to reach out to Evan brand, head over to EvanBrand.com, Evan is there for you guys worldwide. And again, I’m there for you as well, justinhealth.com, Dr. J myself, there’ll be a little link button, you guys can click and reach out to us we are available worldwide to help you guys help you help support y’all. We want to make sure they have the support you need. And you have a good comprehensive plan to get what’s going in the right direction if you’re not having success. And then also just try to apply one thing today as well. If you’re having if you’re overwhelmed, and you’re having a sticking point great to reach out, if not just try applying this information, we want to really help as many people as possible. And we know we’re going to help many more people than we actually see in person with this information. So just make sure you’re applying it. And if you are enjoying it, share it with family and friends that could also benefit put your comments down below. Let me know the best part that you liked about this what resonate with you the most. And give us a like and share as well. We appreciate it.
Evan Brand: Yeah, and if you’re on the apple listening, if you’re on your Apple podcast app or Stitcher or wherever else, give us some stars, let us know what you think the show deserves between us both we have I lost count, but it was somewhere over 705 star reviews for our podcast in between our various feeds. So please give us some stars. Give us some sentences give us a blurb on whether you still call it iTunes or Apple podcast. We’d love to beat out people that are not clinically oriented. There’s still like top health podcast out there that it’s just theory theory theory theory. And then we have to like recalibrate people’s theories because they’re not clinically based. So we would love to beat those people. How do we beat those Before we go higher in the charts, how do we do that? With your reviews! So we have a some stars.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Thanks to all you guys have a phenomenal day. Take care.
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What’s in Your Drinking Water | Podcast #317
Safe drinking water is something we tend to take for granted, until a crisis like lead contamination makes us wonder what chemicals could be lurking in our own taps. Here’s Dr. J and Evan to tell us all about these toxins and what we can do to make our water at home more safer.
Water is important for life without it also life is not possible. But nowadays the quality of water is deteriorating and is a matter of concern across the world. Pure water is one of the greatest natural resource in the world. Do you know that metabolic functions of our body depend upon water? Since ancient time civilizations are built around the abundant supplies of water.
Some of these toxins are parasites, pesticides, fluoride, heavy metals, etc. Dr. J and Evan also suggest having filters in your water such as activated charcoal to filter out particles pollutants from your water.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani
In this episode, we cover:
1:13 Toxins from the water
7:56 Health problems from the water toxins
14:35 Reverse osmosis
20:19 Vitamin C with chlorine detox
26:16 Budgeting water filters
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And we are live. It’s Dr. J here in the house with Evan brand. Today we’re going to be talking about toxins in your water, how to filter them out the things that we do personally with our patients and our families to keep ourselves healthy and feeling great, Evan, how are we doing today, man?
Evan Brand: Doing well excited to dive in with you here. Water is something of course, we all need duh. But good, clean water is something that we really need. And in the modern world, it’s very difficult to get that. And this is a new problem for humanity. Not Not Not super new. I mean, thousands of years ago, this issue was still happening when societies were trying to create irrigation systems and sewage was ending up in their water and all of that, but hunter gatherers in general, they didn’t have that problem. They’d go to the creek, the stream, the spring, and everything was fine. But now with urbanization, industrialization, with airplanes, with heavy metals, the water is a lot different these days, you look at plastic chemicals. I mean, where do we even start? So you even just the containers that the water is in even if the water is clean the container it’s in, could be a source of toxins, too. So how do you want to kick this thing off?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. So first off, you know, where are these toxins coming from in the water. So first thing is we use certain chemicals actually cleaning the water, such as chlorine, for instance. And this will obviously decrease things like microbes and bacteria, ecola, maybe even parasites, right. But you still have to deal with the fact that we have organisms in our gut are called our microbiome healthy gut bacteria in our gut. And we know things like chlorine can negatively impact our gut and our immune system, and the healthy gut bacteria. And we know that we have 80% of our immune system in the stomach in the small intestine, the gulf in the malt. So if we impact that bacteria, it’s going to have a big effect on our immune system. So in general, chlorine is one of those things that may have a benefit, cleaning the water a bit, but we want to be able to get it out. And then we also have things like fluoride, which may have a reasonable intention off the bat of topically helping our teeth be stronger. But just because it has a topical benefit doesn’t mean we necessarily want to put it in our water, that word has an internal benefit. It’s like saying, well, sunscreen may help you from getting a sunburn, therefore put it in the water. It’s like well, topical topical data, but it’s not really used internally, right? So it’s kind of the same thing. And also fluoride is is considered to be like a drug. So if you get put it in your someone’s water, you can’t really regulate the dose that someone would get that some people may drink twice as much water as the next person. So you’re not really regulating the dose on that. So fluoride and chlorine are going to be a big one out of the gates, number one. And then you have may even have things like pesticide runoff from farmland, GMO runoff from farmland, right? You may have parasite runoff from whatever happening in the lakes in the streams, and you want to be able to have means to be able to get those things filtered out.
Evan Brand: Yep, good points, good points. And you know, what we have is truly a first world problem meaning people in second and third world countries, they may have other issues with their water. So this is not just a problem in America, in developed countries. You know, there are water quality problems worldwide, we just happen to have a different problem. So we’ve done a good job at really helping with like the Giardia, and the coal lies in the crypto and that kind of stuff getting that out of the water. But in regards to the chemicals, you know, we are we are doing pretty poor. Now, I’ve got this is a couple interesting, just typography type pieces of information I’m looking up. There are certain cities, it’s very, very few. But there are certain cities in the US that have very pure water and they don’t require water treatment. And this is going to be very interesting to you. Boston, is actually one of those cities. So Boston, New York City, San Francisco, Denver, and Portland, Oregon. These are the largest cities in the US that do not treat their surface water beyond disinfection, because their water sources are in protected watersheds and thus are naturally pure, and it goes into Boston and how they get their water from this reservoir and a way river and blah, blah, blah. So and then-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I went to school at UMass I would drive by the reservoir it was it was called that the Quabbin reservoir was like huge, but it was a man made reservoir. I think in the post World War 2 they it occurred. But yeah, I totally agree that the thing is, I still would never trust it just because I don’t trust there’s not some level of pesticide residue running off and getting in there at some way or another. So worst case, even if your water is clean, it can’t hurt running it through a really good high quality, you know, activated carbon type of filter that’s at least keep a lot of that cut out for sure.
Evan Brand: Just to be if it goes into different parts of California and blah, blah, blah. But yeah, I mean, I just think it’s too risky. I mean, you could look at what they say, you know, it’s pure because it comes from here and there. But I mean, we’ve seen I mean look at the Arctic, right. I mean, we’ve tested polar bear fat and you’ve got all the PCBs and major major toxin issues that far away, where man has never stepped foot in general. So I think it’s just much safer to just assume it’s toxic even despite what you’re told.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, I remember just, you know, waterskiing and Lake Austin, you have all these multimillion dollar homes and the side of the property with beautiful green lawns, and then when it rains, all that pesticide potential runoff going into the water, right. And so there’s definitely some of that that’s happening. So you got to be careful, right. And we even know algae blooms and E. coli can get into the water, things like that. And, you know, we hope some of the chlorine can get to that and help it but just in case, I think it’s worth having at least an activated carbon, you know, higher quality filter through multistage processes, with some kind of a post filtration as well, to kind of get that under control, you know, usually you’re going to get something at a 20 micron level or less or so, at a filtration level to filter out larger particulate, some kind of a really good activated, activated charcoal activated carbon type of filtration to absorb toxins, which is very helpful. And there may also be other filtration that we do on the reverse osmosis side to get the smaller particulate out. So for instance, a reverse osmosis filters and they get about 95% of the fluoride out, alright, if we do just an activated carbon, we may only get about 50% of the fluoride out. So an activated carbon activated charcoal filter, very helpful, it’s not going to get all the fluoride out, and there’s still natural fluoride that may be in the water, whether it’s calcium fluoride, some of the more natural ones that you find there, maybe not the sodium fluoride that’s more synthetic, or the, the hydrofluorosilicic acid that may be a little bit more, let’s say amalgamated with other compounds in there. So you want to have a good whole house filtration system that’s at least a activated carbon type of filter. And we’re going to put some of the links below that Evan, and I both recommend that kind of hit both these categories. So we’ll put the links down below for you guys to look at. And these are the products that we personally use with our family and ourselves and our patients. And I’ve used them over the year. So we’ll put those links down below. But the first thing is at least a whole house, or an activated carbon kind of water filter. Now, we can start off with ones that are pitcher based if you’re a student or you’re someone on a budget that can be helpful for just putting water in and running a gravity filter through that’s helpful. And then you may also want to get a really good activated carbon one for the showers to prevent the chlorine in the shower. We’re not so much worried about fluoride in the shower, because fluoride is not really a gas, but the chlorine can definitely kind of be more of a gas like state and that can also be inhaled when that hot water is coming in. We want something to really focus on the fluoride and such when we’re showering. So a good water filters, it’d be helpful. Now if you get a whole house water filter, the nice thing about that you don’t have to worry about all the different showerheads, you can just put that whole house thing on there, and you’ll be good to go.
Evan Brand: Yep, I wanted to go into a couple more sources of like where you’re getting exposed to these toxins because people just think about drinking but as you just hit on showering, you’re also going to be exposed to it. I’ve had many, many, many clients. I mean, I’ve lost count how many have had skin issues, and especially those people with histamine issues if there is a mast cell component to their health problems, just the chlorine alone could aggravate their mouth cells and create a histamine response. So if you’re noticing that you’re having a skin issue a skin reaction, some type of a rash, you’re getting flushed, you’re getting red, you know your cheeks are red, your chest is red, after a shower, or just general skin irritation, skin dryness, I mean people that are trying to improve skin quality. The chlorine from the shower is a big one also dishwashers think about the dishwasher, you’ve got a lot of hot water, and that’s really going to be activating that chlorine gas. I’ve had some clients that were in the kitchen doing dishes standing next to the dishwasher while it runs and they’re getting a headache and they don’t know why. And we traced it back to the chlorine gases coming out of the dishwasher. Now of course these are more sensitive people. And you listening may not be that sensitive. But these are the canaries in the coal mine that really show us the true toxicity going on. And then if we’re able to implement a whole house filter, of course that also removes the chlorine from your dishwasher. So now your kitchen is not going to be this big chlorine bomb anymore, which is which is amazing. And also your ice. Think about people that are doing ice beverages. My wife loves an iced coffee. And if we didn’t have a whole house filter. Now, it is true that refrigerators and freezers they do have filters these days. However, they’re very poor. Generally, they’re going to be removing lead, maybe some Mercury, but in regards to like your trihalomethanes, your bpaas, or chloramines, your pharmaceuticals, your pesticides, all of that stuff. It’s just not the level of purity you’re looking for. So your ice is contaminated. You put the ice in the drink, and you get exposed there. And then really just to kind of summarize all the toxins, you really have just four big categories. You’ve got your chemicals, which is like the pesticide you’ve got glyphosate, you talked about the pesticide runoff, that’s a huge problem because we know that even parts per billion ppb which is tiny amounts of glyphosate kill beneficial bacteria in the gut. So literally, it’s almost like you’re drinking an antibiotic in your tap water because the glyphosate. And then in regards to like the, you know, the the physical toxins in the water, I mean, whether it’s like clay or no just organic material that ends up in the water. I know like the Ohio River, that where Kentucky gets their water. I mean, you got mud and crap running off into there all the time. And then what about, like the biological stuff? You mentioned viruses, we talked about parasites, we talked about bacteria. And then what about like radiation? I mean, that’s, that’s tough to say. But I don’t know exactly the locations I’ve seen in the desert. You’ve got like uranium and cesium showing up like in California, you’ve seen a lot of cesium showing up from Fukushima, the nuclear reactor that’s still leaking To this day, almost a decade later. So you’ve got no radiation to deal with. And so all these things add up. And you can, the good news is, you can you and I kind of joked about this, but you can make yourself live in a healthy bubble. And it seems like you’re having to go above and beyond and you’re just the health freak. But now this is honestly the standard of care that your water should have, you know, this is really just standard practice, you’re really just trying to get back to the water that your great, great, great, great grandparents drink before all these chemicals were invented.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% 100% I totally agree. I’m going to show you a couple of text sheets here in a second, we’ll just look at some of the things that we want to see filtered out, that’s gonna be very, very important. Just because of the fact that we want to make sure we’re not getting exposed to a lot of these things. That’s really important. The first thing we can do people talk about, like, Hey, what about this detox smoothie, or these detox supplements, or whatever people are all on this kind of detox kit? Well, the first thing we can do to stop or to support detoxification is stop adding toxic burden to the body, it’s the first thing we can work on to prevent toxicity, it’s just stopped the burden. So that’s really why I want to put a lot of people’s focus on out of the gates. Now just take a look at this here off the off the bat so you guys can see my screen. So with a whole house filter, or really good activated carbon filter we want to see so you can see up here, these are a lot of chlorine or chloramines. So these are like kind of chlorine like metabolites very, very bad. So we’re looking at a 97.6, 98, 99%, upper 90% reduction, and that’s really big. Then we have our [inaudible]. We’re getting a 99.9% reduction there, you can see a reduction in mercury 98 97 96 nothing’s 100% but you’re really knocking down a lot of that load as fast as 99%. Then you’re looking at a lot of the hormones. These are really important, right? Bisphenol A estrogen mimicker, DEET, estrogen mimicker hormones in the environment, look, ibuprofen, right? Naproxen, pain medications, all of these things actually can get dumped in the water, people dump it down the drain. And you can see we’re at, you know, mid to upper 90% reduction there. And then these are a lot of the pesticides, these are organic chlorines that are going to be spilt into the water supply via pesticide runoff into our water supplies. That’s why I’ve been saying, well, this these waters may be great. It’s like, Well, you know, can you really trust like, are you going to do an audit of every home nearby, and their influence on that water table do to pass that round? But that’s a hard thing to quantify, right? So you can see here, these are a lot of the pesticides, Atrazine, right, that’s one that can affect your hormone system, 97%, chlorobenzene, 99%. So these are all nasty chemicals that can easily affect your hormones and reproductive systems. So we want to have a good reduction there.
Evan Brand: Let me make one other point too, because one thing you were showing was like the allowable concentration, the problem is the standards are not super strict here. And so you know, you may see that the municipal company allows X amount of parts per million, or parts per billion, but even at those levels that they’re allowing, even at that cutoff, they could still have toxic effects, like we talked about with the glyphosate parts per billion, just several parts per billion is enough to kill beneficial bacteria in the gut. So they’re talking more toxicity, like you’re going to get cancer if you drink this cup of water, you know, they’re cut off is just not strict enough, kind of like you and I talk about with natural functional medicine ranges with blood testing and conventional ranges, like you may look fine on the conventional range. But on the functional range, you and I have an issue with these thyroid markers. Same thing with these here, the EPA or whoever else may set these standards and go Okay, yeah, these levels aren’t going to kill you. But we’re going to argue, no, this isn’t good enough, we want less.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. So we like to look at a lot of the active carbon really helping and providing a big benefit of filtering out a good chunk of this. And then when we look at the for instance, the reverse osmosis, this is where we’re going to knock down more parasites, so we’re going to knock down most of the fluoride, right 94% you can see radium these are you know, going to be radioactive compounds in there. So this is where we really knocked down a lot of stuff. So you’re going to look at some kind of filter that’s a reverse osmosis, which is a very, very small membrane to filter things out. A lot of times the good reverse osmosis will contain some kind of an active carbon activated charcoal carbon based filter in the for stage type of setup. Usually some kind of pre filter post filter, some kind of membrane reverse osmosis membrane that’s gonna filter things out at a 20 micron or less. And then we’re looking at the activated carbon. And then a lot of times there’s some kind of a post filter on the RL because the problem with the Yarrow is it may knock out healthy beneficial minerals. Like for instance, looking at Selenium there, right, selenium is being knocked down. Now you’re not getting a lot of it in your water, you’re probably seeing magnesium knocked down potassium knockdowns, we want some kind of a filter that will add some minerals back. But we may also use like a really good high quality sea salt, and put it next to your kind of sink where you’re getting your water to add some minerals back in. So I always have like a nice salt shaker right next to my reverse osmosis filter. And so I’ll put a little bit in the morning, maybe a half a teaspoon, I’ll add some water, I’ll shoot it, I’ll drink it throughout the day. And then usually I’m drinking like some topo Chico mineral water or some Pellegrino during the day and glass. And so I’ll hit my reverse osmosis in the morning, before lunch, and then before bed, a lot of times I’ll hit it then. So it’s really clean. And then my whole house filter is really cleaning up everything where if I do go to my my bathroom upstairs, and it doesn’t have an arrow attached to it, the water still really good. Or I’m still okay having that kind of water or, showering having really good clean water in the shower, just knowing I’m not going to get extra exposure to chlorine in that heat, which will go into a gas state and breathe it in.
Evan Brand: Yeah, I’ve had other clients with children specifically who were giving their children baths just in the conventional tap water. And their children were having skin irritation. So the mom says, Well, maybe we’re bathing the kid too often. So then they would go to an every other day or maybe in every third day. And in some cases, that was enough to resolve the issue. But I pointed out, it’s not the bath. That’s the problem. It’s the toxins and the chemicals in the bath so we could bathe our children every day. And we have no issue with their skin at all. versus when we spent a little bit of time in a hotel and we were bathing our kids, we noticed their skin did get more irritated. And you know, hotels typically have a small bathroom. It’s not like a big master bath like we have in a house. And so I remember we’d run the bath for the kids. We go into the hotel bathroom and my god you could smell the whole room smelled like a swimming pool. I was like, wow, even just these trace amounts of chlorine and chloramines and trihalomethanes. That was enough to create a big issue. And also, I want to point out something indoor areas like indoor swimming pool areas where you have indoor chlorinated pools, those are not good places to be. I’ve had a massive amount of issues with clients that were working or you know, generally children of parents working with me that were lifeguards, and they would start gaining massive amounts of weight when they started there. I mean, this is not just one one off cases, several cases where as soon as the teenager jumped into the indoor lifeguard thing, and they’re just breathing in the trihalomethanes all day and the chlorine, chloramines they gain massive amounts of weight. So I don’t know necessarily the mechanism. I don’t know if it’s the chlorine, you know, damaging the gut bacteria. And then there’s the SIBO weight weight gain situation. I don’t know the mechanism, but I’ve definitely seen it and in Canada, there was a study done I’m trying to pull it up here because I used to have it bookmark that. Trihalomethanes. They’re abbreviated as THM. These are the byproducts and the drinking water after the chemicals are used to treat it. That is Canadian study was saying that it was like a 65% of all cancers were attributed to the trihalomethanes in the tap water. Let me just say that again, because this is crazy. It was like 65% of cancer cases, were directly linked to trihalomethanes, which are these disinfecting chemicals. There’s one here and there’s many if you want to look this up, but long term exposure, trihalomethanes in drinking water and breast cancer. This was a Spanish study. And they go into chloroform, which we didn’t even talk about chloroform. It’s too long of a study to get into to read the whole thing. But long story short, you can filter this crap out. So please do it and don’t swim in it. Do salt water, go to a place take your kids where they can do saltwater and not go in the chlorine and if you absolutely positively have no option, but to take your kids into chlorine. It is true that some of the micronized chlorella products that Justin and I use clinically, these chlorella drops these tinctures they have been shown there are some case studies on reducing and or preventing chlorine exposure. So you would take some of the micronized chlorella before you go into the chlorine and then you could do a dose afterwards. And that’s been shown to prevent any type of absorption of the chlorine the chlorella is blank. On to the chlorine molecule. So in a pinch, I think that’d be a good strategy. And how do we know this works? Well, we’ve seen kids with autism and other issues where once they would bathe in a chlorinated pool, they would then have some type of a flare or reaction. And those flares and reactions were prevented with the chlorella administered orally, before getting into the chlorine pool.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think vitamin C also helps with chlorine detox as well. So vitamin C and chlorine detox. So it’s an it’s a natural method of neutralizing chlorine. So it’s really helpful. So you can always take some extra vitamin C, you can always take some extra sulfur amino acids as a means to help like and I have I personally have a pool I have a saltwater pool. And again, a saltwater pool, right you have sodium chloride, that actually that chloride gets broken off, it gets ionized down to via via hydrolysis, and that chloride then binds to the H in the H2o and then it forms you get some level of chlorine forming based on the the hydrogen in the chlorine forming. And so that’s how you make natural chlorine. Now, typical acceptable ranges for chlorine in pool is usually two to four parts per million, two to four. And, of course, the public pools and the be at that higher level and those shotcut more frequency more frequently, right. So my pool only gets shocked typically once per year, you know, when I open it, and then I keep my chlorine level down 2.5 to one part per million. So it’s at a level where I’m doing about 10 ppm on myself so and that’s enough where one there’s no odor, and two, you can put your eyes in the water, open them up, be underwater all day, and then there’s no irritation at all afterwards. So that’s kind of like my threshold like number one, no odor, and number two, no irritation to mucous membranes and eyes. Now one thing I do to help in my pool, I get a a copper or a silver ionizer. And it sits in the pool, and then the UV light hits it and it dispels ions into the pool. And those ions provide some kind of a natural anti microbial benefit to prevent algae from going because you don’t want algae is growing, right? If algae is growing, that can be like fuel for other bacteria, their microbes. You don’t want those microbes either. So it’s a balancing act of like not wanting your pool to become essentially a pond, right. But you don’t want so much chemical in there that you’re absorbing it. So I kind of find getting my chlorine level down to a point five to a one ppm. I keep my filter going on all the time. 24/7, I just got a new filter. By the way, a new motor for it thing last 13 years is amazing. But that keeps running and it goes through a a sand filter. So it’s really, you know, pulling out a lot of the particulate obviously I’m back washing my pool at least once or twice a week. And then I use that ionized so that allows me to keep my chlorine down I have I have my pool service by a company I talked to I say hey, how low because I’ve instructed that I want to keep the chlorine at the lowest possible level before algae or any microbes may grow. I said on all the pools you guys manage it. My the lowest are like yeah, they manage 500 pools. I’m like the lowest amount of chlorine out of all the pool. So I tried to keep it in at that level. And that’s kind of a good trick. And it really helps.
Evan Brand: That’s awesome. Yeah, and you mentioned the vitamin C. That’s actually one thing we did too. And we were in the hotel and if we travel we can’t bring filters with us is they actually sell vitamin C, dechlorinization tablets. These are something you can buy online. It almost looks like an Alka Seltzer tablets. Pretty funny. But you take these little vitamin C tablets and you throw it into your bathtub. And it works. I mean, you go back into a small room where there’s a bathtub filled with chlorine water, you throw in that tablet and it fizzes. Immediately you go back in and like two, three minutes, and you no longer smell the chlorine. And apparently, this is a widely used practice in Aqua culture for raising farm raised fish that they use the vitamin C to. It says here that they’ll use it to treat wounds and farm raised fish. It was actually no-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I know, you can get water filters for the shower shower filters that have like an activated carbon kind of filter as well as vitamin C in it. And that can be helpful just kind of reducing some of that chlorine load. But if you have a pool, right, if you have a new pool, you know I like a saltwater and then if you can get some kind of an ozone feature put on there or you want to add in an ionizer that floats in that’s great. Or if you want to add a UV component I looked at doing some UV stuff. I didn’t feel comfortable with it because there was a couple of recalls on the one that I had for fires. So but if you have you’re putting a new pool in definitely look at getting a good system that may have a UV filter on it that will help kind of provide some decrease, you know, microbial activity without adding more chemicals to the water right. That’s the key.
Evan Brand: Yeah, awesome. Well, this is an exciting piece of the puzzle for people’s health. Is it that all of a sudden you filter your water and your health magically gets better? Well and around about way? Yes. I mean, if you’re not putting in heavy metals, if you’re not putting in pesticide and herbicide you mentioned the pharmaceutical drugs to those end up in the water not only from people dumping them into the water but also just urination. Believe it or not, people are peeing out the metabolites a pharmaceutical drugs have they found some Cipro, they found blood pressure medication, heart medication, antidepressants, anti anxiety, medication, pain pills, all from the urine of people, they pee in the toilet, that goes back into the sewers back into the reservoir, they then filter it again. But, you know, once again, these big municipal companies, they’re focused on filtering volume, this is all about millions and millions of gallons that are pretty clean, but not the thousands of gallons you’re using in your house, ultimately clean. So just want to make the distinction. Those systems are not designed for purity. They’re designed for volume. And so when you’re getting exposed to these trace amounts of drugs over time, it makes sense why society is, you know, partially crazy, because they are they’re on all these drugs. And you’re having people, you know, dosed at a dose that they don’t want, they, you know, people are not, they’re not intending to drink antidepressants, but it’s just a byproduct of, of what’s happened. So anyway, the good news is, I could go on a rant on that forever, and people would probably love it. But the summary is you can filter this stuff out. So get it done. As Justin mentioned, we’ll have links in the show notes, because we’re always updating our recommendations. But the links we’re going to have for you are things that we use clinically and things we use personally in our own homes, and things we’ve been used when we travel. So I hope that’s been helpful.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Like it, yeah, in general. So we kind of talked about it with water. So there’s a couple of different stages, right? Let’s say you’re someone on a fixed budget, you’re someone that an apartment complex or student, right, we have some good recommended kind of active activated charcoal type of filters that are more gravity based that are helpful. Now there’s like cheaper ones that are out there, like the brighter ones, not quite as good, there’s some better ones, we’ll put links below, of the ones that we like on the gravity side or on the you know, the portable kind of gravity side where you can put in the fridge, there are some countertop units that are helpful on that are just really good activated charcoal ones, there are some under the counter. So if you have access to drilling a hole in the countertop, and putting a tank below, that’s wonderful if you can do that. And then we have obviously the whole house, you probably want to be living there to be able to do that one, that’s helpful. And then we have different shower ones, that can also be helpful too, if you don’t live there, but you want to clean up the water coming out of your shower, those are a couple of really good options, we’ll put the links down below. And then I hope you enjoyed some of the pool tips I recommended. So that’s helps you to kind of keep the chlorine down, I always tell people, anytime if you’re managing your own chlorine, or you have a pool service doing it, you know, get the chlorine down to the lowest possible level where you can’t smell it, you can’t taste it, it doesn’t irritate your eyes or mucous membranes. And at the same time, you don’t have algae growing in the pool. So if you can kind of fit that level, maybe point five to one, maybe definitely two or below is ideal if you can do it. And then if you use the ionizer, or other techniques that should be helpful too.
Evan Brand: Beautiful, that’s awesome, great advice. And share this with your friends, your family, they probably don’t even have a clue that toxins in the tap water are an issue and they don’t have a clue that it could be damaging the microbiome. So here you are spending good money on your fermented foods, you’re doing your combos, you’re doing your Kim cheese, whatever else you’re taking probiotics, you’re fixing your gut issues, but then you go out to the restaurant and you just drink the restaurants tap water. So this is another helpful step to help you take back your health. So this is Evan Brand signing out. And Dr. J, if you need help clinically, please reach out JustinHealth.com for Justin, Dr. J., me EvanBrand.com. And, you know, sharing is caring. So you know share this information. Let’s improve the water everywhere people need to help all day all the help they can all the help they can get. And the last thing we want is you getting exposed to something that you don’t have to get exposed to.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. So if you guys want to reach out, these are all techniques that we use with our patients kind of day in day out. In general, if you don’t have a good water filtration, you could always maybe go to Costco or Sam’s Club and just get some good bottle water. I’d like Topochico you could do Pellegrino I like it because they’re in glass too. So you don’t have any pesticide runoff. So you can always store these at your office or in a little fridge nearby where you’re working most of the time. So you can at least go through a liter or two of these during the day and try to have a good you know, at least the cheaper gravity filter in the in the picture form is always still great. Choose a higher one and then kind of work your way up. That’s really important. I remember when I was a student, I think it was undergraduate I remember this was like 15 20 years ago, I spent I saved up like a whole week’s paycheck to buy a reverse osmosis filter and it was a countertop portable when it was like the first of its kind It was amazing. And I would go buy like these big three to five gallon like things from Whole Foods. I fill it up one day and then let it filter for like five hours fill it up, and then my water for like the next four or five days now repeat every single, you know, half a week people thought I was crazy back then because our rows were relatively new. So I prioritize my money towards good water you should too. It’s very important good foundation for health for 70% water so very important. And if you want to reach out down below again, we’ll put the links and our favorite products that we use with our friends and family and patients. Evan phenomenal chat with you, man.
Evan Brand: You too.
References:
Recommended Products:
https://justinhealth.com/products/whole-house-water-filtration/
https://justinhealth.com/products/water-filtration-devices/
https://justinhealth.com/water-pitcher
https://justinhealth.com/pelicanRO
Audio Podcast:
https://justinhealth.libsyn.com/whats-in-your-drinking-water-podcast-317
Does Eating Healthy When Stressed Make You Feel Better? | Podcast #315
Eating a healthy diet can reduce the negative effects of stress on your body and a healthy diet builds a solid, more enduring foundation for your body by reducing oxidation and inflammation and by helping to reduce weight gain. So in this video, we have Dr. J and Evan talking about how we can handle stress while trying to stay fit and healthy.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani
In this episode, we cover:
0:30 Why is it hard to eat healthy?
7:01 Eating unhealthy junk
17:19 Avoid stressing out on eating healthy
25:51 We all have different journey
29:11 Get the momentum
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey guys, it’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani here today’s podcast is going to be all about is your health making you stressed and anxious? Again, it takes a lot of effort and a lot of energy to be healthy. And we want to make sure that those goals are not making you sick and stress at the same time, Evan, how are we doing today man?
Evan Brand: Doing awesome. Let’s dive in. First of all, when you say that, why, why does it take so much effort to be healthy? Is it just the modern world, the circumstances, the toxins?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So my first step out of the gates, it’s all about habits, right? It takes no more effort to get what you want than what it does to get what you don’t want. It’s all about pattern of behavior. And so I always tell patients, the first month is typically the hardest because you’re creating new patterns of behavior. So there’s like, there’s four levels of competence, right? There’s the conscious or unconsciously unconfident, meaning you don’t know what you don’t know. You’re just totally clueless right? And then you’re unconsciously or then you’re, you’re, you’re basically unconsciously competent, where you kind of know that you don’t know something, right, you kind of know that you don’t know something. And then you’re consciously competent, where you know it. But you really have to be focused on the habits, choosing the right things, doing the right things. So usually, it’s the unconscious incompetence, these are people we’re not able to help, because they don’t even know there’s a problem. Once they go from unconsciously incompetent to consciously incompetent, they know that they don’t quite have the skills, that’s where we’re able to help them in stage two. And stage two to stage three is the hardest because this is where we go from, you’re consciously competent, you have to focus, you have to think about every little thing you’re doing right. What’s my analogy, anyone that’s driven a standard transmission car, it’s tough, like you’re driving a car, now you’re putting your left foot on the train on the on the clutch, you’re shifting gears, maybe you’re looking down and make sure you don’t go from first to third, right. But at the same time, you still got to fear and keep your eyes on the road. So it becomes this, you may be able to do what you’re grinding the gears, but it’s a lot of stress and you’re consciously competent, that’s kind of where most people are at with their health changes. And then there’s unconscious competence. That’s where we’re at, where we’re literally on cruise control, because we’ve done things thousands of times in regards to the clean filtered water that we’re drinking, eating good healthy proteins and fats, taking supplements, avoiding toxins, using health devices that help improve air quality and water quality and EMF and all the things that we’re doing. It’s unconscious, there’s literally no effort for us to continue to do or very little effort, right? Kind of like driving once you have a stick. It’s like no big deal. You’re like shifting gears, your eyes are on the road, you’re down shifting No problem, right? Is that a good analogy?
Evan Brand: Yeah, that makes sense. And a lot of people, they get overwhelmed, and then they just give up or they get pressured by their family members or their friends like you and I were talking about before we hit record, oh, just have some gluten. It’s not going to hurt you. You know, I’ve had family members joke like when we’re giving them the salt shaker at the dinner table. They’ll say, Oh, can you pass me some gluten? And they’ll try to like joke, like they’re pouring gluten on their meal. It’s like, Oh, come on. So you know, you get people like that that will try to influence you. And it may be a joke, but sometimes, I want to say weak people. But when I say weak, I mean people that are symptomatic people that are ill. They’ve been trapped in those habits for so long, they may actually fall off the wagon, from Aunt Betty saying, hey, try one of my famous cookies that are loaded with sugar and gluten, they may go for it Betty’s cookie when they know they shouldn’t. But I think number one, I think you have to suffer enough to be able to be more compliant. I don’t know if you agree with that or not. But like for me, I’ve suffered enough to where I don’t feel that I want to make those choices anymore. Like, I know that that case would be so friggin delicious. But I don’t want to pay the price with my skin. I don’t want to pay the price with my gut. So for me, I’ve suffered enough to be able to make the choices easier. But if you’re trying to just convince people just to convince them, I don’t think it’s as powerful.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So yeah, I have a couple of thoughts on those are all valid points Evan. So off the bat, it all depends where you’re starting, right? The healthier you are, the more adaptable you are, right? So the healthier you are, the more adaptation you are, more adaptable you are, the more you can deal with a stress like gluten like sugar, like being off on your diet, like being off on your sleep. So the healthier you are, you may have a little bit more resilience. And then the question comes down to how do you feel after you eat some crappy food? Right? How do you feel? How long does it take you to get back on track the next day? Is it just you’re okay? And that next day? Maybe you’re a little bit of a slow startup but then you’re good? Or does it take a couple of days or a whole week to kind of get back on track, right? So the healthier you are, the more adaptation your body has, the more you could cheat a little bit. Now there’s different levels of cheating is eating a lots of processed sugar and lots of gluten and lots of food allergens that you know you can handle. Now if you don’t have an autoimmune condition, and you aren’t as sensitive in regards to how you feel afterwards, you may be able They get away with that every now and then not that big of a deal. If you have a diagnosed autoimmune condition like myself, I have hashimotos that I’ve totally manage under control, I always try to choose the healthy alternative, you know, I’m always going to go grain free or gluten free, I’m always going to go gluten free over gluten full, if you will, right. So like for we had Thanksgiving last week, we got some squash pies from trophy, true food kitchen that were 100% grain free and like lower sugar, they were great, right? Good, better best. So I always try to make the best quality decision I possibly can. Because I know I have I have immune issues. And I want to prevent my immune system from attacking my body. Now if someone doesn’t have any diagnosed conditions, and they feel great, they may be able to do more of an 80 20 kind of 90 10. I do an 80 20 90 10. But I still keep it to ideally grain free processed foods or at least gluten free processed foods. And if someone isn’t at a stable place in their health or coming to see us during the middle of their functional medicine kind of onramp well, then we got to be a little bit more puritanical. Off, kind of off the the back. So it all depends where you’re at, in the plan that you’re on.
Evan Brand: Yeah. And even though I’m feeling better, and I could probably get away with more stuff, I just don’t go there. Because I know that I don’t want to say it’s a slippery slope. But I know that if I’m like, Okay, I got away with it once the next week, I may go for it again. And then boom. And then now I’ve got the skin issue again, or now I’ve got the gut issue again. So for me, it’s very easy to stay on track. I don’t feel like I’m missing out. I don’t feel deprived. I think one part of this conversation you you’re titling this, this talk is, you know, being healthy making you anxious or stressed. And I think where people get caught up in it is because they feel like they’re deprived. They look at these other people eating the pizza, and they’re like, well, I want pizza, I’m deprived. This is bullcrap. And then they get stressed that they have to eat their their grass fed steak and sweet potato. But for me, once you feel so good, it’s not a diet of deprivation. Would you agree? This is not a diet where you feel like you’re missing out? I don’t feel like I’m missing out on anything.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, anytime you’re dealing with, you know, eating a bunch of crappy food, you have to look at why. Okay? So in general, a lot of times neurotransmitters play a big role. So a lot of people use a big big whack of sugar to artificially boost serotonin and dopamine. And that we call that emotional eating, they’re using a lot of the sugar to get that under control. So with myself, um, if I cheat on anything, it’s going to be like the Unreal, coconut dark chocolate, it’s going to be my keto cups, like, Is it really a cheat? Probably not. There’s barely any sugar in it. But it still gives me that mouthfeel. And not that sense of cheating. Like, like, I’m really eating a whole bunch of bad foods, but it feels good. It feels like a cheat, it feels like a treat, so to speak. So we always try to choose the highest quality one, we try to choose the lowest quality or the highest quality nutrition like good fats, right, avoiding the trans fats good, lower sugar amounts, I try to do more of the organic coconut palm versus, you know, the high fructose corn syrup, maybe with some mercury in there. So we try to choose the better quality types. And how do you feel afterwards, a lot of people, they don’t really look at how they’re going to feel afterwards. So if you’re really bloating, you’re gassy and your skin breaks out and it lasts a week. Like if I have a skin breakout that lasts a week, I am like heck no not worth it. So I’m always gonna, you’re always playing damage control, you’re always making calculated assessments. So when you make a decision to engage in desserts and treats for the holidays, we’re going to be choosing the healthiest quality, the lowest sugar, but still have a great time like Well, my kids, we went trick or treating, what happened afterwards? Well, trick or treating bad with all the candy went away, we actually gave it to the fire station. And then we I got some of the Justin’s high quality dark chocolate peanut butter cups and some of the Unreal, dark chocolate with a little bit of coconut in there. And that was their substitute. And so they got one or one or two every now and then. And it was low sugar, good fats, the fats are important because it stabilizes blood sugar, prevents cravings and swings and actually makes them a little bit satiated afterwards. And we’ll give it to them after a dinner. So we’re not creating this blood sugar rollercoaster of eating sugar by itself. And so we’d always just make these really good calculated substitute because I want to give my kids and myself a chance to enjoy life or have a childhood or do things that are really, you know, they’re like special, but with that with kind of mitigating the the side effects, if you will.
Evan Brand: Yeah, that’s a great point. And I think it’s easier if the whole family can get on board, like you mentioned, you’re doing this with your kids. So if you got the husband or the wife that’s not on board, that’s going to be really tough. I don’t know if I have many other solutions besides wait until that person is symptomatic enough to get to get on board because they’re really not going to do it just out of choice unless they’re just a very, very supportive spouse and Wow, good job, you’ve got a keeper. But in most cases, like I said, it’s the husband or the wife making fun of the other one, like I’m going to drink the beer, eat the pizza and do the wine or whatever. And you’re going to just go eat your your AIP diet. So try to get family members on board. That’s the best advice I can do because Then it gets exhausting man, you’ve got the husband and the wife cooking double meals, right? They’re making the unhealthy meal, and then they’re making the healthy meal. And then you got double the cleanup. So just from a sustainability standpoint, it’s just really best if you can get everyone the kids on board too, because you don’t want Mom, I had one lady, this is gonna sound crazy, maybe not to you, but maybe to others. We had a lady with hashimotos, where we had determined that the reason that she was having flares is because she was touching the bread making her children sandwiches every day, and that she was basically holding it and there was some kind of like a gluten skin reaction, transdermal kind of thing. Yeah, yeah. And so we got her Ah, well, they hit well just quit making sandwiches, or at least go like a grain free bread, if you can find it. And luckily, the antibodies went down just by changing that, because she was already AIP with her diet. And we’re like, Well, why are the antibodies continuing to rise? The thyroid, we worked on the gut. And typically that would help but it didn’t help and then boom, we figured out it was lady making sandwiches. So in her case, it actually benefited her to help her kids as well.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, most of my patients is the women are tend to be on point, they tend to be 100% on point and to be a little bit more in tune with their health. Also, I think they tend to be a little bit more, let’s just say not supported by conventional medicine, right? Women have hormonal issues, what are they given me, if they’re cycling ages, birth control pills, right, the people are getting a little bit more cutting edge with hormones as they get into menopausal age, but they were doing horse hormones for the longest time and they weren’t fixing any of these underlying issues. And they were just throwing medications that are antidepressants at it. And they kind of most women intuitively knew that something was wrong. Now my other kinds of patients are like my, my, my my guys that are great. They’re like the biohackers. They’re like the guys that are like optimizing cell performance. They’re trying to really get their their level their RPM or performance to a higher level. Those are my two like great patient, my women patients that are really know something’s up and want to dive in deeper, and that my guys that are more on the biohacking side and kind of optimizing performance, they kind of know something is up. Now, when I make recommendations for patients, you got to really get focused on the performance aspect. Like you got to feel that people have this satisfaction, feeling of like their mouth and their taste and all that stuff. That’s a hard feeling to overcome, right? It’s always pain versus pleasure. So you really have to link up a lot of pleasure from the performance that you get from eating great food, whether that is clean skin, whether it’s all day energy, whether it’s good sleep, whether it’s good libido and mood, you really have to internalize the performance enhancements that you get. Now, the more adaptable you get, you can still keep those benefits while you cheat a little bit. Now we just choose the healthiest cheat possible, I already gave you a couple of options. What I do, you can do it going out to eat, you can do it going to steak houses, all kinds of good things you can do when you go to a nice restaurant with steak and vegetables, or if he goes to sushi will avoid the soy sauce. And we’ll do MCT oil and coconut aminos. Right. There’s a lot of substitutes we’re always doing. And it’s hard out of the gates because it’s stressful. But once you kind of make a habit out of it, you kind of have all of those go to substitutes there at your fingertips. Do you have any things that you do, Evan that, you know, maybe a treat for you, but it’s you know, a really good go to?
Evan Brand: Yeah, well in terms of drinks, you know, I think that’s a big one, right? Just getting people off of sugary drinks. So Suja I think’s done a great job with all of their green juices. They have one I want to say it’s called like skin beauty or something. I don’t have the label in front of me. But for me in terms of beverages, I mean, I’m typically doing herbal teas, chamomile, ginger, peppermint tea, and then good clean filtered water. That’s about it. I know you’re super into the total Chico’s and some of the other mineral waters, carbonated waters. Those are great. But for me, I think it’s called beauty scan or scan beauty something anyway. Suja makes it it’s a whole foods. It’s like maybe four grams of sugar, but it’s like lychee juice and blueberry juice. Man, if I just get something like that. It’s a treat for me. And it may have a little bit of stevia or monk fruit in there. Something like that is great for my wife. You know, she had previously used like, you know, we’re talking 10 years ago, she had previously use some of the coffee creamers. I know people really do a lot of sugar in those. They’ll say oh, I only you know this coffee creamer is only two grams of sugar but it’s a gap but you’re putting like frickin five tablespoons. You’re just pouring it in. So for her. She really loves the rebel like the mushroom. Coffee blend.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I like that one.
Evan Brand: Yeah, like the coffee with the mushrooms and I think it has coconut milk and stevia. So it’s basically a no sugar. So for us. Those are kind of our treats that make her feel like she’s still getting a good creamy sweet coffee without sugar. And then for me, you know, I used to love as a kid and a teenager man. I love soda. I mean Sunkist and Mountain Dew. I mean, I was into all the garbage for me now if I have that lychee juice, man, it tastes like candy. But it’s Yeah, my palates change. That’s the thing. The palate has evolved for us. So like you mentioned the treats your level of treat like you I think you and I’ve talked about blueberries you’ve done I think you said you’ve done frozen blueberries with like whipped cream and that’s a treat for you.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s like a dessert and a cream is great is awesome. Do it, it’s a coconut yogurt, it’s all about, okay, you know, try to do the right thing 80% of the time, right. And then a lot of the treats that we do is, it may still be part of the right thing, right? If we’re doing some almond butter, if you can tolerate knots and Granny Smith, apple and cinnamon, or if you can do some, some blueberries and some coconut cream, those still may be healthy things, right. So the cool thing is if we can choose healthy treats, that that feel like a treat tastes like a treat, but still healthy. That’s a win win, because then you can do that more frequently. And that’s kind of a it mixes up the monotony of your routine. And then of course, if we’re going to go and cheat a little bit, you know, when I go to a restaurant, what’s my go to? Well, I’ll get like a really nice, homemade, though a couple of restaurants, I go to their steak houses, they’ll make a nice ice cream that’s kind of a sorbet. Or it’s kind of coconut base, that those are really wonderful and tasty. Or I went to Truffaut kitchen and got a squash pie, which was wonderful. Or like a coconut, like is a restaurant down in Austin called Picnic. They have some wonderful autoimmune dessert recipes that are excellent. So you can try to always mitigate a little bit. And then if you something that’s really special, I don’t know your grandmother makes up especially around the holidays, and it’s worth the treat. Well, that’s fine. You’ve earned it, as long as you can deal with the side effects afterwards. And ideally, we don’t have an autoimmune condition with active antibodies that could be attacking your body. And it’s probably okay.
Evan Brand: Yeah, very, very good. And then of course, we’ve mentioned the enzymes before too. So you’re gonna go get your grandma’s secret recipe, you know, there’s probably wheat and other crap in there, you may just want to do your enzyme, right? So like you and I both manufacture professional enzymes. So if you’re working with us, you’re probably already taking those but that’d be a good, that’d be a good strategy. Oh, you know, another treat for us I just started making these recently, is to take the CFA, the soft tortillas, and make like a [inaudible] out of it. So you do like a little bit of coconut oil, or you could just do butter if you want. And then just kind of put it in a pan for 1015 seconds, heat up the tortilla, and then just a little bit of coconut sugar and cinnamon on it. Oh my god. It tastes like when I was a kid, I’d go to the county fair and go eat the what was it the funnel cake or the elephant ear? Like that wheat Yep, thing with a bunch of powdered sugar on it. Oh my god, I love that I know. But this little, you know, the grain free tortilla with the coconut sugar and sentiment, man things delicious. That’s a treat.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and so you can mitigate. So number one, don’t feel stressed about being healthy. Just kind of know that first month, the two months is the hardest. If you’re coming in to, you know, this new healthy lifestyle and habits with a lot of symptoms. Don’t worry about cheating, worried put your focus on developing habits, right? Many people, they go into this place in their head of like, Oh my god, like, I’m not going to ever be able to eat this again. It’s like a divorce. It’s like a breakup, it’s like they’re literally grieving the loss of this food I’ll never eat again, don’t go into it like that go into it with the mindset of Hey, I’m going to focus on eating nutrient dense anti inflammatory, low toxin foods, so I can decrease inflammation in my body, accelerate healing and feel awesome. And then once you’re at a good level where you’ve kind of plateaued, and you work through some of the programs that we’re on with hormones and gut and your digestion is better, then we can start adding foods back in. And we’re always going to choose the healthiest treat options and the healthiest foods first. And then if your optimal health stays at that great level, then we can you know, if you want to go off the beaten path, here or there, you know, 80 20, 90 10, 95 5, and you’re able to maintain your benefits and it doesn’t take you too long to get back on track. That’s fine as the book out there called the Four Hour Body by Tim Ferriss. And Tim Ferriss talks about a cheat day eating, we’re at whatever you want for a whole day. That is I’m sorry for most people, it’s a terrible idea. Because they go have a cheat day on Sunday, and they’re so inflamed. It takes till Thursday, the next week to get back into homeostasis. That’s a problem. – go ahead and go ahead.
Evan Brand: Let me interject because I think that you may even be underplaying how bad of an idea that is because you and I’ve seen just by looking at thousands of people on test results, we’ve seen you know, gluten antibodies and other antibodies go up for potentially months after certain exposures like that. So you’re mentioning possibly a week to reset it could even be months.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: If you have an active autoimmune thyroid issue or active autoimmune issue it could be now you can get your thyroid looked at, you could always do an Array Phi by Cyrax, to look at other silent antibodies that could be there. But if your health is great, and you feel great, and you know you can kind of get back on track the next day, all right, fine, but try to always choose a grain free option for most of your stuff, at least gluten free for most of it. But yeah, so my whole thing is how do you know something’s worth it? You should be able to get back on track that next day, if you’re not back on track the next day, that’s a problem. Now, Evan, you already alluded to what what if those antibodies popped up and we don’t know about it, so if you have an active thyroid autoimmune issue, you really Really want to be testing those antibodies or that ANA, or those autoimmune markers? If you have lupus or sjogren, or something kind of under the surface? I would say really choose the healthiest cheat possible. It’s just not worth it when tissues being destroyed.
Evan Brand: Yeah, yeah. Well said and, you know, for me, we’d like to leverage the lab testing and show like, look how good you’ve done. Look, we’ve got your dopamine back to normal. You mentioned neurotransmitters early on, look, we’ve got serotonin normalized. Now, doesn’t that feel good look at your calprotectin in your gut, we’ve got your inflammation down 1000 points, look at your Secretory IGA that’s starting to come back up because you’re removing the foods irritating the gut. Look at some of these infections, we’ve cleared out because you’re not using the sugar to feed the Candida and to feed the other pathogens. So when we use the functional medicine testing, plus just kind of our pep talks and motivation we give to people it’s a really good one two punch that keeps people on a sustainable path forever. And it really is a lifestyle. You know, we talked about, oh, this is a lifestyle. It’s easy to embrace once you feel good. So I agree with you, you got to focus on Hey, do you want to feel amazing? And then some people will ask the same thing with supplements, right? They’ll ask the same question about diet as they do supplements. How long do I have to do this? on their diet? And I’m like, well, and this might always punch back with as well. Do you want to survive? Or do you want to thrive? Well, obviously I want to thrive. Okay, well then do it forever. Okay, that was easy. So for me, that’s the that’s the default answer. Like when someone’s like, well, how long do I need to dial in my diet? I mean, as long as you want to feel amazing is the answer.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, tell patients out of the gates, you may have to be more puritanical. Because you’re trying to make up for lost time. It’s kind of like, if you’re in debt, from decades of poor spending habits, well, we’re gonna have to kind of get you on a really lean budget, and you’re gonna have to be investing and saving a large percent of what you make. Now as you get on top of that, and you’re debt free. And, and you’re feeling great. And now you’re making investments. And now you’re on your way to financial freedom, you can be a little bit more loosey goosey with your spending, right, it’s kind of the same thing with your health, just change the the the money equation to health. And it’s the exact same thing. And so we always try to look at getting momentum getting you on top of your health, reaching the level of conscious competence to unconscious competence, where it’s automatic, because the stress that people feel in that first month or two is just the fact they haven’t made a habit yet. And so if you want to live a healthy lifestyle, you have to make you have to let your brain and your physiology shift into unconscious competence. If you’re quitting before you get there, you’re you’re doing yourself a disservice. Because the amount of energy if you’re thinking, well, it takes me too much energy to do these things. It’s because you’re not in unconscious competence yet, and you will be there just give it a little more time people project their energy is going to be on this conscious competence wavelength the whole life, meaning the amount of energy they have to focus in and project has that will be at that level, but it won’t, it’ll get easier once you make that shift to unconscious competence. Totally, totally. It’s so easy, it’s so much, it’s easy, it’s easier for me to stay on the rails than it is to go off the rails like I would have to be, it would take me effort to go off the rails, I’d have to like seek out bad things like what could I do to try to test myself or destroy myself so it’s a good place to be 100% so out of the gates, we kind of talked about it you know where you’re at, if you’re not a mean person, and you have active issues or active things going on that are significant. Do the right thing, do the right thing be on point get momentum, get your symptoms on hundred percent under control, look deeper under the hood regarding hormones regarding everything else that’s happening in your body. Work with a good functional medicine practitioner and get your blood sugar, get dysglycemia under control, get inflammation, nutrient density, get toxins under control. That means going organic, clean, filtered water, all that good stuff, hormone free, antibiotic free, get your hormone stabilized and worked on whether it’s blood sugar, thyroid, female or male hormones, and then get your gut looked at because the healthiest food. We’ve kind of alluded to it. If you can’t digest it or break it down or absorb it properly, because of stress in the gut, you’re going to have a problem. So of course the next thing is we’re assuming that because you’re eating good foods, you’re breaking it down. The next step is going to be working on the gut. And so we don’t want foods that are full of inflammatory food allergens affecting your gut if it’s not stable yet.
Evan Brand: Yeah, my diet was great, but I had gut infection so my skin was crap. So for me, I put in all the work on the diet and I got frustrated because I thought well, I’ve got rid of gluten I’ve got rid of dairy What is wrong with me? And then luckily the functional medicine testing came in and kind of uncovered some stuff so if you’re more dialed in, you’re still struggling then you know look deeper. And so if you want to reach out to Justin you can do so clinically at his website, JustinHealth.com. That’s Dr. J at JustinHealth.com. Me Evan Brand at EvanBrand.com we work with people over the phone, Skype, Zoom FaceTime, however we need to connect we send the labs to your door. You send those back to the lab, we jump on a follow up call to discuss the results and make a protocol. It’s very, very awesome. And with everything that’s been going on, it’s funny that telemedicine has gotten, you know, 10 x more popular. So it’s really cool that we were actually ahead of this curve. We’ve been doing this this way the whole time. So feel free to reach out and we look forward to helping you.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. So you guys know where to reach out. And just remember to start with one thing, like, if you’re coming into this journey, I find a lot of people who aren’t doing the right thing, if you’re around them, and you start, you know, being on point and making health changes, sometimes there’s this subconscious pull to pull you down, because you making the changes to improve your health sometimes magnifies their inability or lack thereof to make changes in their life. And sometimes they may sabotage you and pull you down. It’s a threat. Yeah.
Evan Brand: Yeah, you’re saying that you’re saying that by you trying to better yourself, you may piss off other people, and then they’re going to try to come bring you down with them and their misery just eat the cookie.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and everyone’s on a different journey. So if you’re the autoimmune person, and you need to really be on point, because you’re starting this journey, and maybe they’re a little bit more stable, and healthy, you know, it may not even be something where they’re unhealthy and may just be there at a different place than you and they want to indulge this Saturday night, and you aren’t quite there. And that’s okay, you know, you just got to meet and support people where they’re at. And that’s, that’s a good thing to be at. So it’s good to have empathy. And it’s good to understand that we’re all in different places. And some people may not have even gotten out of the gate yet. They may be at that unconscious incompetence. They don’t know there’s even a problem yet. And so we just try to always meet people where they’re at, provide empathy, and understanding from where they’re at.
Evan Brand: Very true. Very true. One last story. So I had a woman. Actually, though, the husband and wife were both working with me and the woman just love baking. I hear the story a lot. The woman loves baking. And so like every Friday, she would make brownies or cookies or cake or something, right? She’s always baking some sweet thing. And then she only wants to eat a piece of it. And then she leaves it left for her husband. And if he tries to throw it away, then she’s like, no, you’re wasting it. You’re wasting our money. You’re wasting it right. So then he feels up, which I don’t know, maybe this is his excuse, maybe not. I’m just sharing the story. I’m just the messenger boy. So he comes in and he goes, Well, she’ll get mad at me if I don’t eat the whole cake. I’m like, Oh, that’s what it is. So you have to eat the whole cake. So she doesn’t get mad at you. Okay, interesting. So now we’re trying to switch her over to, you know, almond flowers and coconut flowers and whatever. So we’re just working better option.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: So we’re just working with them on where they’re at. But it’s funny. He blames her right? Oh, she’ll get mad if I don’t eat the whole cake. It’s like that’s a good excuse right there.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And we I mean, you got to take accountability. It’s not a valid excuse in the long run, right? You get two people in there and you got to get one to agree. All right, we got to stop this. That’s not good behavior. But yeah, I totally get it. And so outside of that there’s some really good autoimmune dessert recipes and treat recipes and my go to or some of the Unreal or Justin’s dark chocolate brands are pretty good. Or some of the endangered species dark chocolate or just some just some of the berries and coconut yogurt or maybe a hail mary tart, or I’ll just choose something that’s like a baked Apple, like my paleo apple crisp is a really good one. I just I have a couple of go twos. I tend to repeat that work pretty darn well. I know you did the waffles in the morning, which is kind of a nice treat. I’ll do that the keto birch benders waffles. Is there any other go twos that you do? They’re kind of a treat for you but still relatively healthy.
Yeah, yeah. You mentioned SWAPO Yeah, they’re swap foods is the brand of like a waffle but they’re Yuka those are delicious. And then you mentioned earlier the keto cups that’s evolved I think company and then I also like the keto bars there are keto bars that perfect keto makes. Yep. Anthony. He’s a Chiro who makes those are good. Those are like stevia, monk fruit, I believe. And those are like organic almonds or organic cashews. Those are good. I’ve done some of Dave’s bars, the bulletproof bars, with the MCT and organic cashews, those are pretty good depending on if you could do nuts or not. So those are some good treats that are easy and quick. And then also, bison. I like to do some of the epic bison meats like the bison bites, or Tonka makes really good bison meat. So I’ll do those or venison jerky or something like that.
Yeah, and one last thing is for patients or people listening, try to get momentum out of the gate. So really start your first two meals of the day solid, good protein, good fats get momentum. That makes a big difference. If you’re coming out of the gates with crappy food. In the morning, a Starbucks mocha frappuccino with a whole bunch of sugar, a crappy lunch, it’s hard to get on top of your day, from a physiological hormone, anti inflammatory support, it’s really hard. So get momentum out of the gate. It’s kind of like starting a race and you just kind of get out of the starting block at a walking speed that you got to sprint out of that walking out of that starting block. Right. Same thing with your health. So start your day with good habits, right whether it’s a cold shower, or whether it’s clean, filtered water or some minerals, some good protein, some good fat or if you’re healthy enough, maybe intermittent fasting again, people that aren’t healthy I think they need they need nutrition in the morning they don’t need nothing in the morning the healthier you are the more fasting I think provides a beneficial effect just like exercising really hard can be beneficial if you’re already fit right kind of like that. So that’s kind of where I’m at. I think you put some really good points out there EvanBrand.com for Evan reach out virtually worldwide for support JustinHealth.com for Dr. J myself. We are here for y’all. And you guys have a phenomenal day. Take care y’all.
References:
Audio Podcast:
https://justinhealth.libsyn.com/does-eating-healthy-when-stressed-make-you-feel-better-podcast-315
Essential Blood Tests to Analyze Your Health | Podcast #305
Regular blood testing is one of the most important ways to keep track of your overall physical well-being. Getting tested at routine intervals can allow you to see how your body changes over time and empower you to make informed decisions about your health. Here’s Dr. J and Evan talking about the areas to check aside from the usual blood tests we know.
A conventional medical doctor will typically recommend that you get routine blood work, but this is the bare minimum. There are several significant reasons you may want to get blood tests more often than that. Either you want to optimize your health or to reduce the risk of disease and health complications.
What are some routine tests and others that you should ask or know? Aside from CBCs (Complete Blood Count), Dr. J and Dr. Even pointed out enzyme markers, cholesterol tests, blood sugar tests, liver markers, thyroid panel, and so on. It will help your doctors make a differential diagnosis and dive into the root cause of your present health status. To know more, check out this podcast.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani
In this episode, we cover:
3:12 Conventional Side of Blood Works
12:14 Thyroid Panels
17:56 Blood Glucose
23:50 Adrenal Issues
29:33 Lipid Panels
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We are live. It’s Dr. J here in the house with Evan brand. Today, we’re gonna be chatting about blood tests that we use to help assess our health and help us get better. So we’re gonna be chatting a little bit about kind of intro blood tests, what the best tests are kind of what our perspective on that is, Evan, how are we doing today, man?
Evan Brand: Doing really well excited to dive into this topic, I went, got my blood work. And I got my wife’s blood work done on Friday. And I just want to give a brief little note on how you and I run blood work as clinicians because it’s very easy. And it’s so convenient, because we don’t have to go and beg a GP or an MD and say, Hey, please, please, doctor. I mean, you and I’ve heard countless stories. Yeah, I asked my doctor to run this, they wouldn’t run it, I asked my endocrinologist to run this, they wouldn’t run it. With us, the accounts that we have with our credentials, were able to order and create customized lab panels. So you and I both have created customized blood panels that with a click of a button, we can go boom, order it for anyone, whether it’s ourselves, or our clients or patients, and then we get an instant requisition form. We go straight into labcorp request, you check in, you sit down, they call your name, you hand them the paper, you get the blood draw, you go home, it is so amazing. Every time I get my bloodwork done, I’m like, wow. And I didn’t have to get anyone’s permission to do that. But my own.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Isn’t that nice? Yeah, it totally is nice. Also, there’s the big insurance scam, right. So because we have accounts directly with the lab companies, we can order tests, and typically we get, you know, an 80 to 90%. You know, discount in price compared to what the insurance would bill. So like my typical thyroid panel, full thyroid panel that I charge my patients probably around $120. And the insurance would typically charge a patient for that well over $1,000. So then patients, most patients don’t get 100% coverage, right, especially if you’re not in network, and then the doctors can’t ever retest, but once every six months, so then you’re you’re stuck not being able to ever retest. But they think, Oh, I’m gonna get coverage for this. And then they get 90% coverage, and they end up paying more money. For the for the 90% coverage, even though they paid 100% cash, it had been cheaper. So that’s kind of the insurance scam. And then the problem with that is they can’t retest but once every six months, so they’re kind of stuck. So yeah, it’s really nice to be able to order what the patient needs and to be able to reorder and reassess. Based on a time that is good for us. Not good for the insurance companies. That’s kind of nice, right?
Yeah. And you’re kind of we’re kind of circumnavigating that conventional system where you’re waiting two, three months, and then you get a bill in the mail and you’re like, oh, medical bill, What’s this about? And then it’s like, oh, you owe 700. with us. It’s all transparent. It’s up front, you pay, boom, boom, boom, you’re done. I’ve already paid for it. I know that I’m not spending another penny. And the turnaround time is insanely quick to like one or two days, typically on some of these panels are running. So let’s go into some of the details. Now, let’s quickly compare and contrast. I think you and I have a lot of fun. Like where we did our conventional functional medicine vers conventional medicine, gut workup. Let’s talk about the same with bloodwork. So if you go to your doctor, and you have them say, hey, Johnny, we’re going to run your blood. What is that going to look like?
So conventional medical doctor, they’re typically going to do a CBC, they’re going to do a metabolic panel, they’ll probably do a lipid panel that’s usually going to be at maybe a year analysis, that’s kind of it. So like on the CMP they’re kind of looking at liver enzymes. They will look at some electrolytes on the liver on the CMP as well. Those liver enzymes electrolytes, maybe some protein markers there, they’ll probably look at glomerular filtration kind of some baseline kidney function with creatine and and bond. The kit the liver markers are going to be a lt and as to the liver enzyme markers, the gallbladder is ggt but probably look at some bilirubin your electrolytes are going to be sodium chloride, potassium magnesium, all serum not not intercellular which is a difference Okay. And then on the red blood cells are going to look at red blood cells RBC some adequate hemoglobin that’s part of the CBC right complete blood count which is going to help be helpful for anemic patterns right low iron right, although also run indices which are MC VMC, HMCHC right me corpuscular volume me corpuscular hemoglobin me corpuscular hemoglobin concentration. When those markers go high, that tends to mean that we’re dealing with B vitamin issues like b 12, full eight issues, and we call that megaloblastic anemia. So we have two kinds of anemia. As we look at big cell anemia is right we tend to be more B vitamins stuff. And then small anemias. We tend to be more on the red blood cell hemoglobin hematocrit, low iron side, and then we have immune markers, whether it’s neutrophils, lymphocytes, eosinophils, monocytes, and basophils, which could be from bacterial issues, parasite issues, gut inflammation issues, viral issues. And then I would say on top of the CBC, that’s pretty much it and then your limits. So total cholesterol, triglycerides and then of course, your LD vldl pattern, and then there’s some add ons that we may talk about whether it’s c reactive protein for inflammation, fibrinogen, for inflammation, homocysteine for inflammation, methylation, vitamin D. and we can kind of go into each one of those in regards to what we think is important on the functional side. But you know, the whole lipid thing is, it’s kind of overplayed, right people think that lipids are a really important issue now once you start going over 200 or so on the total cholesterol, and that may not be. And we’ll talk about the ratios and the perspective that we add to when we look at it.
Evan Brand: Yeah, so the way you talk, it sounds pretty good. It’s like, oh, wow, that’s a lot of stuff. But truthfully, there are rarely issues that show up on just standard bloodwork. Now, if you have more of the functional training that you and I’ve had regarding blood chemistry, you can kind of, I guess you would just say pick through the CBC with a fine tooth comb, and you can really look and maybe find some functional issues, like for me, I know that I you know, for a very long time, my hematic crit, you know, I’ve always had the hematocrit be a little bit high, which, based on some of the training you and I’ve had, it would indicate that there’s probably a dehydration issue. And that’s tough. You know, it’s, it’s, it’s tough to stay hydrated. And so even if I mean, I’m sipping on water all day, but you know, I’ve heard there’s a big influence on anti diuretic hormone, and all of that when you’re exposed to mold toxin, that’s a conversation for another day. But anyway, unless you’re really looking with a with a fine tooth comb, conventional bloodwork doesn’t reveal much. And you may see a little bit of this a little bit of that, but it’s not, I’m not making too many protocol decisions based on a CBC I would say.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So when I look at blood, it can give me a good area of where to where to look next, or where to dive in deeper, which is helpful. And then if we look at it, using the optimal reference range, or a functional reference range, we can definitely glean better information. So the problem with most conventional medical doctors, they’re looking at blood through a pathological range, they’re trying to pick up like major disease patterns or pathological patterns. And so how it works is you have to show you have all people kind of fit in what’s called the bell curve. And the typical range is going to be two standard deviations to the left and right, this is represents about 95% of the population fit into the so called normal. So you have two and a half on the high two and a half on the low that are on the high or low side, pathologically, right. And so the problem with that range is it as people get more unhealthy and sicker. And as those sick people tend to test more, what happens to the lab reference range over time, it gets wider. And so it becomes more encompassing, it’s like having a bad field goal kicker and you make the field goal every year wider and wider and wider and closer and closer to compensate for the lack of, you know, good kickers out there. So it’s kind of like that. And so what we do is we kind of narrow up that range a little bit, and that narrower range helps us pick things out before it becomes a problem. So let’s kind of go over a couple of things. So with women or people that are vegan vegetarians, women, because they bleed more when they’re when they’re at menstrual age, right, typically 50 or below 48 or below, they can be more anemic. So we may look at things like lower red blood cells, right, red blood cells, you know, below 4.2 or so we may look at hemoglobin below 12, we may look at him at a crit, you know, in the mid to low 30s as a sign that there could be some low iron issues brewing, we may also run an iron panel, it’s not typically run, but we may run things like ferritin, or iron binding capacity. Or we may look at things like iron saturation to get a window of low iron, for instance. And that’s commonly missed, because what most conventional Doc’s do is, their threshold for low iron is really low. And there’s a lot of women I see in vegetarians in general that could be on that lower side could be a little bit anemic, and then they’re not going to be able to carry oxygen throughout their body adequately, which makes a huge difference in energy and stress and and mitochondrial function and thyroid function because you need to be able to carry oxygen to have good energy.
Evan Brand: Yeah, let’s go into some of the more let’s let’s, let’s break some of the stuff down. But before we break it down more, let’s hit on what are the things that that we’re going to run and so I’ve got my panel pulled up that I ran. And so I’ll kind of run through some of these things. But as you mentioned, ferritin that’s typically not going to get run I’ve rarely rarely seen fair to run by anyone. The iron saturation as you mentioned the iron binding capacity. That’s really wrong. That’s right to be ti BC. Often on your bloodwork, the vitamin D. I mean, my God, it’s so important, but yet vitamin D to this day is still not commonly run. Nope. And if they run it, they may run the wrong one. I’ve seen people where they don’t run the 25 o hydroxy. tryptophan, they’re going to run like the even the beat the D two. They’re going to run the What is it? Ergo?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, the vitamin D too. Yep, Ergocalciferol.
Evan Brand: Yep, yeah. Ergocalciferol? Yeah. So you have a vitamin D, they may run the D two and you’re like crap I needed to d3.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, the [inaudible]. The animal base kind of the d3 is the more active form. The D two is the more plant synthetic form, typically made from lanolin. A lot of times, that’s the D two, that’s the ergocalciferol. Ah, so vitamin D is really important. And then the range on that is pathological as well. They want above 20. Why? Because they’re looking for rickets, right, the bone bending disease, right, because d3 helps absorb calcium and helps a calcium get into the bone. So we want 50 to 70 or maybe 70 to 100 if we’re autoimmune or cancer risk. So vitamin D is a big one, I would say also on the CBC, we may be looking at immune cells, if I see low white blood cells, you know, below four and a half. There could be some you know, deficiency issues if there’s high white blood cells, you know, greater than seven and a half there could be some immune stress. Now we look at the, the immune cells, how do we look at those never let monkeys eat bananas, that’s the mnemonic device and doctor at school we learned so neutrophils we want to see, you know, below 60 lymphocytes, we want to see mid reference range when we see high neutrophils or low neutrophils and elevated lymphocytes. That’s a common h pylori or bacterial infection pattern. If we see elevations in eosinophils, greater than four, we’re thinking potential parasites or chronic environmental allergies by sea monocytes, greater than 10. I’m thinking some kind of intestinal inflammation. So we there’s different, you know, patterns you may look at, when we look at some of these immune cells. That’s very important. But unless it’s very high, they’re typically not going to say much. And if it’s very low, they typically don’t say much either there.
Evan Brand: Yep, so also more advanced thyroid markers. It’s very, very sad how many people go to even an endocrinologist and they may only end up with a free T for possibly a free t three, but even that’s not guaranteed. Maybe a total T for you may get Of course, TSH is going to be on there. But you and I are definitely going to be running like thyroid globulin, I mean obat antibodies, we’re going to be running t TPO, thyroid paradoxus antibodies, maybe TSI, sometimes if we think there could be something else going on next. And then you’ve got the uptake of T three, what else you got? You got reverse t three that we’re going to be looking at. That’s an awesome marker. And that’s never run.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. So when it comes to a thyroid panel, you already mentioned it, most conventional endocrinologist and primary care are going to run TSH because that’s the major screening brain hormone, not a thyroid hormone majrooh. It’s not a thyroid hormone, but it’s a major brain hormone that talks to the thyroid and you’d be lucky to get a T for total after that. But we know downstream is a lot of conversion issues and even patients that have normal TSH, guess what, especially if they’re on Synthroid, which is a synthetic thyroid medication that’s just T for many of them can’t make that conversion. And that’s a problem too. And so you can have adequate T for good TSH and low t three. And you may have a lot of thyroid symptoms. So it’s really important that we look at things complete. And don’t even get me started on thyroid antibodies, because that’s almost never run and thyroid antibodies are the major mechanism why most people sideway glands aren’t functioning properly because their immune systems have beaten the crap out of their thyroid for a very long time.
Evan Brand: And we’re talking what I mean, you’d say probably over half of cases of hypothyroid are probably autoimmune based on what I’ve seen, what would your guess be?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I would say that and some may not even come back on the lab test, but it’s very helpful to be able to look at those we run TPO antibodies and thyroid globulin antibodies. And so my full thyroid panel nevitt, some kind of a TSH, T for free and total t three free and total TPO antibody, federal globulin antibody, and we may run a reverse d3 or an uptake. Those are all okay markers to add to. So that’s kind of your complete thyroid panel. Let me just piggyback to the CVC. Is there anything else on the CDC? I think we hit it all there. We can go to the metabolic profile now if you want.
Evan Brand: Yeah, well, you mentioned like earlier, like CBR active protein c reactive protein, I guess it kinda depends. I mean, sometimes that standard, but a lot of times that’s not an hscrp is, you know, going to be the same same section of the inflammation panel on your blood. So hopefully you get those two run together.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, usually CRP and cardio CRP is basically the same thing CRP, they’re just, they’re breaking the number down typically below two, I think the cardio CRP, they typically don’t do it less than two or so. So when they you do a highly sensitive CRP, they’re just breaking it down into a smaller number. Let’s go we want to see that below one that’s great as a good marker of systemic inflammation. And fibrinogen is great. We have for highly inflamed, we may see a lot of clotting happen. And fibrinogen looks at clotting factors, which is helpful. So if we don’t have good fatty acids, good omega three omega six ratio or a lot of inflammation, a lot of trans fat, high blood sugar cells tend to agglutinate they get very sticky. And so it’s nice to see where that stickiness that stickiness level is. And homocysteine is also another measure of blood inflammation because it’s homocysteine is an inflammatory metabolite. That typically happens when there’s not enough B vitamins B six and four And B 12. In their active form, that can be a big inflammatory issue there too.
Evan Brand: Yeah, that was a problem for me. Actually, I did have elevated homocysteine couple years ago and started hitting some more Foley and it fixed it. So it was fun to see how the blood correlated to that.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, you know, we’re going to try to get as much of that which we can do leafy greens and high quality, you know, essential fats and meats, right, but that’s good. And so metabolic profile, we may look at liver enzymes that could be helpful patients that have a lot of insulin resistance and inflammation, you may see an elevation in liver enzymes. What does that mean? That could be a non alcoholic, fatty liver, non alcoholic steatohepatitis, that’s Nash or non alcoholic fatty liver, meaning your liver has stressed not from alcohol, but from typically too much fructose and junky carbs. So the liver is a people think the liver is just a big filter for toxins. No, it also has a major effect at regulating blood sugar, and is also a storage site for sugar, especially fructose. So when you over consume fructose from high fructose corn syrup, or, you know, just too much carbohydrate, in general, the liver really gets stored up. And then when that liver fully gets saturated, overly saturated with fructose, for instance, you start having all these up regulations of inflammatory enzymes called the the junk enzymes, the J, the J and K one enzymes, and you see a lot of inflammation and a fatty liver there, and you see it an ultrasound. And so that’s a common marker seen those elevated liver enzymes, and it’s good to be able to look at that.
Evan Brand: Yeah, I don’t know if you’ve tested bloodwork much with people like in the middle of a protocol. But I’ve had a couple interesting cases where, while using binders, we’ve seen liver enzymes go up. And it could have been also parasite protocols and things like that, that were kind of interwoven with detox protocols. But I’ve seen liver enzymes temporarily go up during that. So I don’t know if you pay much attention to that. But I’ve seen it and they always go down as soon as it protocols over so.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Even with some killing herbs, like worm woods, a common one that we may see a little bit of elevation and liver enzymes, people that are sensitive, some of the killing herbs, it could be a little bit of stress, is it just the herbs? Or is it the dead debris that is now mobilized from the killing of those microbes, it could be both. That’s where adding things like binders can be very helpful just to kind of put handcuffs on those critters and escorted out of the body versus kind of having it go back into general circulation. also adding an extra glutathione support can be helpful too. Just to really support and tone if I deliver those are very important too.
Evan Brand: Yeah, well. And it’s common for you and I to use some sort of a liver gallbladder support too. So we may be throwing in like some extra taurine or Mathionine or beet powder artichoke. And there’s many, many things that I say milk thistle already NAC. So there’s a lot of stuff we can do. But yeah, I just figured I mentioned it. Because if someone’s listening and you happen to do blood work in the middle of a protocol, it’s possible that the levels may you may look at him and go, Oh, my God, my liver enzymes, but it will go back to normal relatively quick after killing protocols over.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. Also, we may look at glucose, blood glucose is going to be on a metabolic profile as well. CMP panel, I don’t love it as much, because most people that are going to get a blood test and they’re getting pricked in the arm of the big needle, or they kind of stressed. Yeah, and so that the cortisol from that can really increase their blood glucose. So I like getting a really good blood sugar kit like this. And then you can measure your blood glucose during the day. So here’s my little kit here. And so I have I use the keto Mojo now because it measures ketones, so I’m a little meter, I have my little pricker here from my finger, and then I have the blood glucose and the ketones. So this one right here is the blood sugar. And this one here in the lighter blue, this is my ketones. So it’s kind of nice to have those. So I can test my blood sugar before I eat. And then I can do a one two hour three hour and play around with my blood sugar. The whole goal is the more you keep your blood sugar down after a meal and bring it back to baseline within two or three hours, the less insulin you’re making, the higher it goes up and the longer it takes to come back down, the more insulin you’re making. So it gives you kind of a good window how you’re responding to food.
Evan Brand: Yeah, what I wanted to point out is that you’re doing more functional analysis of glucose versus if you just go into your doctor once every six months, you get a morning fasted glucose, that’s just not enough information.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s not because the whole goal while you’re just checking morning glucose is because you’re thinking your food, so out of whack, that your glucose is now elevated as a result. Now the problem is most people haven’t eaten in 12 hours. So for your glucose is still be out of whack. 12 hours later, the problem has to be pretty severe number one, and then number two, a lot of times it can be elevated not because of food, but because of stress hormones in the morning. And so the stress hormones, people say oh, I’m at 105. Yeah, but it just could be a good cortisol response in the morning called the dawn phenomenon that’s raising that glucose. That’s why you want to check it against your foods during the day. If you have a blood glucose issue. You’re going to see one and two hours later, it’s chronically elevated, and it’s taken a bit of time to come down. So that’s a better marker. Make sure you’re handling glucose okay.
Evan Brand: Yep. How about hemoglobin A1C, this is something that for diabetics, obviously, this is hopefully going to be regularly checked. But for your average person that maybe has some issues, A1C is probably not going to be on your standard blood panel.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I don’t love A1C, I used to like it. I don’t love it as much, I find that when people’s blood cells live longer, because they’re more healthier, they have more time to accumulate blood glucose. So the A1C it’s a part of the hemoglobin and they’re looking at the coding, the coding of glucose on the outside of the hemoglobin, right? So imagine, like, you know, when you, you know, you go up into your car during allergy season, you can see like a big fixed swath of like pollen on the car, they’re kind of looking at the swath of glucose on the outer part of the human lobe. And now the problem is, the longer your red blood cells are hanging around, the more time they have to accumulate that blood sugar. So it can be helpful to look at something. But if you’re, if you’re a little bit on the higher side, or like, let’s say 5.5 or so, let’s say under six, but 5.5. And up, it may just because your red blood cells are a little bit more healthier. So like, for instance, with my anemic women who may have a ton of blood sugar, right, a lot of carbs, because maybe they’re vegetarian or vegan. Guess what? When you’re anemic, your red blood cells die faster. So all my anemic women have A1C super low, like in the forest. And so it’s not going to be a great marker when your red blood cells don’t live that long, and we see it with our anemic patients.
Evan Brand: That’s a good point. Good point.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: If I see someone six or higher, yeah, it’s helpful, you know, but when you’re kind of in that subclinical zone, you’re going to typically have to go back to one, a meter like this, to really look at it. And then also look at your fasting insulin, which is a better marker, because that’s going to give you a better window, how much insulin you’re making frequently.
Evan Brand: Yep, good point, that analogy is perfect. The pollen on the car. So good job there.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right. And if you leave your car out there a lot longer, you’re gonna get a lot more pollen. It’s kind of like that, right?
Evan Brand: I’m always under five though, no matter what with a one C, I’m always right. 4.9. Somewhere in there.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I’m pretty low, too. I’m always like, right in the low fives. 5’1 5’2. But I’ve seen a lot of patients in my career that have that have really good diets that have tested their blood sugar, have good insulin, and they’ll still have a little bit higher on the a one C and I’m just like, yeah, it’s just it’s missing some people. That’s all. It makes sense. The question is, what’s the mechanism? And that’s what it is.
Evan Brand: Yep. Makes sense. You hit the you hit the dawn phenomenon. So you know, cortisol that may be run via blood, although we don’t really like blood cortisol too much. We really like more functional analysis of cortisol, like with urine or possibly saliva?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, yeah. And part of the reason why we don’t we don’t like it, is it because when you’re measuring a stress hormone, while creating a stress response, ie putting a needle in my arm, you may influence that a little bit, right? And so that’s kind of the reason why we don’t love that. And even if you’re like, Well, you know, do the adrenals make cortisol fast enough after the needle happens to show in the blood? Well, it’s not just that it’s the fact that you’re anticipating it happening. Therefore, you’re replaying that stress in your mind all the way up to the doctor’s office to go and then the elevator getting into the you’re already making that stress hormone while you’re anticipating what’s going to happen.
Evan Brand: Yeah, you go in the friggin lab with the scientific fluorescent lights above your head. It’s all awkward the quiet they got some like drug commercials on in the waiting room, Justin, and they call your name come on back. Yeah. So and, you know, also Not to mention, too, that that’s just a snapshot, right? I mean, that doesn’t tell us anything about what’s happening at two or 3pm when you’re complaining of that midday crash. So I really am not too interested about what happened at 8am. I’m really want to know what what’s going on at 2pm when you’re saying you need that third cup of coffee.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly, yep. 100%. So it’s, it’s really important that you’re kind of on top of that. So I think we hit some good blood glucose stuff, we hit some liver enzymes we hit. I’m thinking here, we hit some of the electrolytes. electrolytes are good, too. So sodium and chloride are really good ones. Now when I see patients that have adrenal issues, you could easily have low sodium and high potassium, or you can just kind of have lower minerals all together. Now the serum is not going to be the best marker for testing minerals. So when you see your minerals out of balance, you know, it’s a big issue, but you could still have mineral issues. And the serum be okay, because it really matters what’s in the cell. Not necessarily what’s floating around in the blood. So think of interesting Imagine you’re in a pool, okay? The pool is serum. Okay, you’re in the little floaty. You’re in the little inner tube, right? So it’s you in the inner tube, right? You and the inner tube and the water in the inner tube that’s intercellular. The water outside of the inner tube is extracellular serum. So that’s kind of how you think of it. So when we test some of these nutrients, it’s better to get a sample of the water in the inner tube with you that’s intercellular versus the water outside of the inner tube. That’s serum.
Evan Brand: Yeah, and how do people get that? What is look like?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, you can like we can add like a red blood cell serum or a potassium serum on some of these panels, we may run like a spectracell, or a Nutri eval or an ion panel that looks at more intercellular nutrients, we may look at different tests that allow us to do that. But there’s not too many add ons for conventional testing like quest or labcorp. Outside of I seen a blood cell magnesium is good. You can do a potassium if you wanted. So there are a couple that you can do to get a window into that.
Evan Brand: Yeah, I was gonna say I looked through all the options for the conventional labs, RBC magnesium, I think that was about it. I think that’s all I could find.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So yeah, not too much. But it’s something you know, because magnesium is a big one, right? And with magnesium RBC, we want to see a greater than five on that one, red blood cell magnesium greater than five. So that’s helpful. And then, of course, we mentioned magnesium surround, we want that greater than two. And then your minerals, you want them somewhat mid reference range, once we start going under 100 or so I think like sodium, it’s like 104 is kind of mid range. If you’re under 104, it could be a problem, potassium, I forget the exact ranges in it, but I want them all about mid range. In regards to the reference range.
Evan Brand: What do you feel about using conventional bloodwork to do like omega three omega six fatty acid panels, I know, there’s some Doc’s that are just so obsessed with all these ratios. But, you know, truthfully, if you’re doing the things that we’re discussing with our clients and patients for nutrition, you’re going to pretty much be optimized anyway. I don’t know what that would tell you. Besides, hey, maybe you need to do a little more this or that?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, it’s a great question, I think, look at the person’s food. Like someone could have really good diet, but let’s say the meat and the eggs aren’t pasture fed. Well, that could easily be the reason why your omega six to three is off a little bit. Or it could be that you know, you’re just doing too much plant fats, and those plants or from coming from, you know, omega six bass plants soy or canola or safflower. So if you’re doing good fats, like coconut oil, and olive oil and avocado stuff, which are monosaccharides are Yeah, so those are, yeah, those are MonEl fatty acids versus like, vs. poly, which is like a fish oil, right. And then so the fish oils, you have omega threes, right, which are going to be like, the ones that are we talking about that are going to be more on the anti inflammatory side, right? These are the Polly’s. And then of course, the Omega sixes are going to be more on the vegetable side. These are going to be also Polly’s but they’re going to have six bonds, these are going to be your safflower canola, these are going to be your soybean oil, all of your plant based fats, most in the most of your plant bait fast, to extract the fats from them with the olive oil or maybe an avocado, you tend to have to damage the fats, they tend to be more damaged, they tend to be more on the Omega six side. And when you get when you eat plants by themselves, you’re not getting that concentration of fats. And so you tend to not have that high omega six to omega three, when you’re doing just vegetables by themselves. Okay. And so we can just look at how much fish you haven’t per week, how much pasture fed eggs you have in a week, how much steak or meat that is grass fed, you haven’t per week, and then you can kind of look at it relative to what’s high on the Omega sixes like the knots and the seas and the refined vegetable oils. And you can kind of get a pretty good assessment of where you’re at, which is like kind of for one or less. So four times omega six to one is pretty, it’s pretty. Okay. And you can always run that omega three to six tests on the blood too. Does that make sense?
Evan Brand: It does. Yeah, I just find that it’s not a huge needle mover. So I don’t run it too often. I mean, I think it’s cool to check in you could call it kind of a lie detector test as somebody says they’re doing everything that’s dialed in, but then you find out that Oh, they’ve been coconut grass fed steak, but it’s been in this healthy heart oil blend that they found on the shelf and it was a safflower canola combo. You’re like, Oh crap, then we missed it. And you got to get off of that stuff. So yeah, I mean, I was just gonna say so it’s not really a standard thing. For me at least you know, I’m not running into often with people but-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: But it’s there it’s an option and then it’s something if someone wants to run we’ll run it and so we have the polyunsaturated which is the fish oil or on the omega three side, right. And then we also have things like flaxseed oil, but it has to get converted to the to the higher up fatty acid so you know, omega three fish, and then you get to get some mega three from cows that are grass fed as well.
Evan Brand: What about particle size on a lipid panel? So we talked about that briefly. It’s just a good add on that most people don’t do and our friend jack Wolfson, he discusses particle size and I think it’s something that more people are asking questions to their doctor about but it’s still very uncommon to run.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: People that have a cardiovascular history. Just want to run it to begin with. I think it’s okay. I can almost always tell you what your particle sizes if you’re eating good health saturated fatty acids like coconut oil and grass fed butter. And you’re getting meats that are like good quality fish, good quality grass fed beef, egg yolks, you’re keeping a lot of your junky fats down a lot of the refined sugar down and a lot of the trans fats down, you’re going to have a large, you’re going to have a particle size A, which means large and buoyant and fluffy, right? Think of a like you want an ad on your test. And then you have the small dense atherosclerotic particle size B, think B for bad, and the B for bad, more trans fats, more inflammatory, processed vegetable oils, more refined sugar. And so with patients, I almost always can look at their diet. And guess what that will be to begin with. So if I do a dietary check and do a diet recall, what’s what’s the average day look like? And I look at that and I get a window, it’s pretty easy to predict that. And so we’ll run it for patients that have a cardiovascular history, and they just want to know, but for the most part, it’s not hard to predict it.
Evan Brand: Yeah. And when you see it, are you just tweaking dial? Like, if you see a bunch of small dense particles, or are you coming in? Are you using any kind of like plant sterols or anything like that, to help with it are you just tweaking diet, and then it fixes itself?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It depends how acute the patient is. But if it’s if it’s not acute, meaning the patient’s not dealing with a heart issue right away, then we’re going to just tweak the diet, and that’s going to take care of it, we’re going to add an extra omega three fatty acids from fish oil, we’re tweaking the diet, we’re getting the carbs down, we may be adding extra nutrients to manage blood sugar and manage inflammation. And then usually within a month or so you’re gonna see a big change. After we retest. Awesome, yeah, usually once you get about 100 good meals, then you’re going to see a big shift. A good average person is doing about 21 meals a week, right? So three a day times 721. So four to five weeks, once you get 100 meals in, if you can get them close to in a row. Your body has a huge shift in physiology.
Evan Brand: It’s amazing how quick you can change stuff I knew. I mean, sometimes we get impatient because like what the detox piece like that takes longer. I mean, I’m here I am a couple years in detox and mycotoxins. I’ve still got some going on. So, you know, with that, it’s like, oh, man, you get impatient. But luckily, with the blood, it’s a quicker turnaround time sounds like.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, totally, man. It’s really important. So I think we hit some of the big markers today. I would say one other one for lipids. You know, I don’t really care if cholesterol is a little bit on the higher side, just I try to make sure the cholesterol to HDL ratio is ideally you know, four. So if the if your Triggs are sorry if your total cholesterol is 200, and your HDL is 60, or what’s that ratio to the math, put my calculator 200 divided by 60, that’s 3.3. That’s pretty darn good. Usually, when you’re under three and a half, that’s half the average risk factor. Okay? When you let’s say you’re at 242 40 divided by 60. On the HDL, now you’re at four. And so I like to look at the total cholesterol to HDL because HDL is what recycles cholesterol. Okay? So if you have good recycling lipoproteins, ie HDL, that’s a good sign. And then I’m also going to look at my trigger to HDL ratio, we want that under two. But if we can have a closer to one, that’s wonderful, what does that mean? Take your trig number, let’s say your trig numbers at 60. Let’s say your HDL is at 50. Well, what’s that? What’s that number? Well, we do 60 divided by 50. We’re at like, 1.2. That’s good. So we want to under two but closer to one’s ideal. That’s a really good marker. That’s my insulin resistance inflammation marker for my limits. So I’ll look at trade over HDL. That’s a really good marker.
Evan Brand: Yeah, you know, I talked to jack one time about the, the blood and I said, When do you start getting freaked out regarding total cholesterol, because if you talk to a conventional cardiologist, they’re they’re brainwashed on that 200 number. And he says that he’s got people up in the 450s, that he’s not worried about 1%, like total cholesterol being 450. And it’s not an issue. So he just talks about, like he said, ratios, inflammation associated with it, you know, then you get into more trouble. But I mean, the total number, I mean, he acts like it’s just minimally important.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, on its own, I would be a little bit concerned once you start getting in the mid 300. Just because that’s that could be more hypercholesterolemia. And that’s not necessarily a diet thing, that’s more of a genetic thing where you’re making a lot more cholesterol. So I personally would get a little bit more concerned with that and I’d be monitoring that. But it’s hard to really jack up your cholesterol when you’re keeping inflammation down. Like I just did a blood test for my lipids last month, and my cholesterol my total cholesterol and you know what I eat man? I good fats, good proteins, good eggs, good fatty acids. And my total cholesterol was at 165.
Evan Brand: Whoa, yeah, I was like a 202.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, 165 my my trades were at 60. And my HDL is we’re at 50. So I had like a 1.1 1.2 ratio for trigger over HDL, which is great. And so most of the cholesterol, you’re gonna Ahead is gonna be made by your body. So when it starts getting too jacked up and your diets good, you know, we want to look at thyroid hormone, maybe that could be a big thing. And there could be a hypercholesterolemia genetic issue, and we can always run a genetic test for that to see what’s going on. And if that’s the case, what are natural things you can do to get your cholesterol down, you can do higher dose berberine to make sure your thyroids check, you can also do some potential plant sterols as well. But get that check. So my philosophy if it goes a little too high, I’m curious, I’m worried about the hypercholesterolemia piece.
Evan Brand: Yeah, and I don’t mention that 400 number just to get people off the hook. I just thought it was interesting that that’s what he was saying. And he’s probably talking like, you’re in big trouble if you get to that point. But But anyway, so that’s rare, though.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s super like these are very, very rare situations, you know, sub 1% of the population are going to be there. My never seen it ever. I have two patients with that. But most people already know about it, because someone in their family already had been picked up previously. Yes. So most people already know what especially today, you know, maybe 3040 years ago, not as much, but people that have had those issues have already been picked up. They already know genetically, if it’s in their family, and then once you know genetically, if it’s in their family attend to get tested for it.
Evan Brand: Yep. Right? Well, let’s wrap this thing up. So as we mentioned, bloodwork is a piece of the puzzle. If you go to a practitioner, and they’re like I’m going to analyze your blood and tell you everything you need, they’re wrong, because you mentioned some of the clues into the immune section about parasite infections and all that. However, I will speak for you and say that you’re not going to depend on that bloodwork solely to identify parasites, you’re still going to be running comprehensive genetic DNA based school panels, you’re going to be running organic acid panels to look and deeper. So yes, you may look at those things. And I think it’s awesome that you gave us some insight into that, however, I’m not going to go to a guy who’s going to look at the blood and say, Yep, you’ve got parasites, let’s put this protocol together, I’m going to want more data. So blood is just part of that data. And it can be helpful, especially when you’re working with autoimmune people, because you and I like to look at these antibodies, and it’s very fun and satisfying. And it makes you look better when you could have a a woman come in with a TPO of 1000. And all you do is fix her gut and our TPO antibodies go down to sub 200. That’s exciting.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally, that’s huge. So I think today is very great, great podcast, because we’re talking about actual things. We want people to kind of like say, Hey, you know, what’s it like to be inside Dr. J, and Evans head, and this is kind of it. And everything that we look at, we’re kind of like a detective, we’re putting like checkmarks in the column over here that support us going in this direction, or going in that direction. So we add up all of our checkmarks, right, and we’re kind of create what that differential diagnosis is, and what tests we’re going to do to dive in deeper in in whatever those avenues where those check marks are adding up. So that’s kind of inside of our head, we’re walking through you through our thinking. And if you want to dive in and reach deeper, you know, into work with a practitioner, like Evan or myself, you can head over to EvanBrand.com, you can schedule a consult with Evan or myself at JustinHealth.com. And you can schedule we are available worldwide to help y’all with your functional medicine and natural health care needs. And if you want to get to the root cause we’re going to be the best person to to look at anything else you want to highlight here today.
Evan Brand: Maybe just one frequently asked question, Well, I’m not where you live. Does that matter? Well, in the US, it doesn’t matter at all. We can run like a blood comprehensive blood panel, we can run that anywhere now. We’ll try to help people internationally in regards to providing maybe some codes or things like that to help people. But at least for the us know, you location does not matter. We haven’t had any issue with that. I think New Jersey for a while was getting a little more strict. But beyond that, no. I mean, nationwide, it’s a piece of cake. So as we talked about the beginning, create a panel, send a requisition form to your email, print it go get your labs drawn, you’re done. It’s awesome. percent was in New York, or was in New York or New Jersey was one of them.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, both.
Evan Brand: They’re both difficult. But was it for blood? Or was it for some of the functional or was it-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: For blood, but there are some still some Malin fingerprick tests that we have accessible to deal with patients like that. So we still have options for them. Maybe not quite as much. And then if they’re near the Connecticut border or the Pennsylvania border, we have also options there too, but we still have some mail and stuff. That’s helpful.
Evan Brand: Cool, cool. All right. Well check out the sites JustinHealth.com. EvanBrand.com. We’ll be back next week. Take care.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent. Have a good one, y’all. Take care. Bye.
References:
Audio Podcast:
https://justinhealth.libsyn.com/essential-blood-tests-to-analyze-your-health-podcast-305
Can Functional Medicine Manage Headaches? | Podcast #301
In this podcast, together with Evan Brand, we’re going to be talking about functional solutions to headaches. We’ll be looking deeper into what we can do to headache issues.
Our diet can be the first one to consider and ergonomics to keep our body structures relaxed and align, therefore, maintaining our good posture. But how can these factors connected to headaches? Since many people are experiencing headaches, let’s talk about the things we can work on before we go straight to taking medications.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani
On this episode, we cover:
0:59 Why Headaches Occur
4:27 Diets and Supplements
13:11 Possible Root Causes
18:52 Food Allergies
24:55 On Nutrition and Blood Sugar, Dehydration
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey guys, it’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani here. I am with Evan brand. Today we’re going to be talking about functional medicine solutions for headaches. Evan, what’s happening, man? How you doing?
Evan Brand: I’m doing really well, we were looking through some little papers here on headaches is a big problem. I remember when I was actually working out of a chiropractor’s office, which feels like a long time ago, and it was a pretty long time ago, there were so many people that would come in there, and they’d have headaches, and the chiropractor would lay the patient down on the table, and he’d do the adjustment and they’d say, Oh, my God, I feel better. But then guess what, they came back next week for the same adjustment for the same headache. And this guy never got to the root cause and then when I started bringing just simple nutritional strategies into the clinic, all of a sudden the people that need the adjustment every week for the headache anymore, and of course, that quickly affected his his bottom line, and he’s like, Hey, stop getting my people off gluten. You’re fixing their headaches, and I thought, Well, isn’t that the goal of what we’re doing here? So now funny little backstory on headaches for me.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It totally I mean, there’s definitely a mechanical structural aspect to headaches. So if the joints in the spine aren’t moving properly, if there’s a subluxation, or a fixation, they’re just not good movement. That can be a problem, right? Especially like if the, the Atlas that c one and C two aren’t moving properly, because your head sits on top of that, that can create a lot of neurological imbalances and muscular imbalances, of course, and then just people sitting all day, right, what does that do, that’s going to just create this forward head posture, and that takes these muscles here and makes them really tight. And then you have a lot of these muscles, they can create trigger point pain referral, up the side of the neck, so like trigger points in the SEM, this muscle here, the sternocleidomastoid, or the upper trapezius, or the give us plenty of capitas muscles in the back that go up and that hit right in the back of the occiput there. These muscles get tight or they have trigger points they can cause referral into the face so you have subluxation joint issues, and then those can cause neurological disturbances. And blood flow issues. And then of course all the trigger point referral from the muscle. So good chiropractic care can be helpful on the structural side. Ideally, you want a chiropractor that one can either do some kind of myofascial release or active release therapy, some kind of a soft tissue or refer out for it. And then also taking a look at the postural stuff like you mentioned, like making sure like I’m at a stand right now so I can stand half my day. I have a really good chair that has really good lumbar and cervical support. So you want to make sure postural is good. You can do good exercises like the foundation training. Eric Goodman does that he does a lot of these the founder exercises like this, I love-
Evan Brand: Cobra training is a game changer for the back. People that are on audio that they’re not seeing him the founder pose is pretty cool. You basically put your arms up like you’re praying to the sun Gods above your head and then you end up bending over and then you open your chest up and then you kind of stand up. It’s a very, very good. Oh, it feels great.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, basically, it’s just putting stress on that whole posterior chain and working that whole post. exterior side together in unity. So, some structural standpoint soft tissue, make sure joints are moving properly. And then of course, look at the trigger point referral, the adhesions. The problem with chronic muscle pain is you have poor movement, poor movement in the joints means poor communication to the brain. You have lots of postural disturbances and people sitting all day. And if you sit, invest in a good desk, a good good desk as well as a good chair, spend a couple hundred bucks, get a really good chair that has cervical and lumbar support. That’s huge. Don’t don’t get a cheap thing like that. And then also soft tissue chiropractic, and then good exercise support to really make sure that whole posterior chain is working well.
Evan Brand: So you’re saying the the experience I was witnessing where the chiropractor was adjusting someone that could have been legit in terms of the therapy meaning if someone was sitting on a terrible chair all week, every week they come in Friday for their headache adjustment. The headache goes away for the weekend, and they’re back next week for the headache you’re saying yeah, look Gently that could have been a structural postural thing that he was addressing. But then at the end of the day, maybe it was the the diet piece. Like I mentioned, even just simply getting a lot of these patients off gluten, they noticed that they only had to come in every two weeks or every three weeks. So is it would you then say that the the food allergens were contributing to increased inflammation, maybe triggering these nerves to be more sensitive? Or what do you think the diet? How would that link into the structural components?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, so the diet is two things right? The diet one increases an environment of inflammation, the more inflamed you get the the the the least amount of blood flow, less blood flow, you get to the muscles, less blood flow, you get to the nerve, so there’s going to be less communication, right? It’s like, it’s like you’re on a microphone and you start to get in your static, right and you start getting static. It’s kind of like that. So if we have a lot of inflammation, what starts to happen is the muscles start becoming more less pliable, more like beef jerky, versus soft and supple. And then that affects the nerves as well because the more inflammation there is that’s going to affect nerve communication. And then of course, the more inflammation there is. And if we have bad posture we don’t move, then the joints can become a little bit stuck, and maybe out of a line or subluxated. So it can aid to the inflammation, which then makes it harder for the muscles to work, thus harder for the joints to work and the nerves to work. That’s number one. And then number two things like gluten have shown to actually decrease blood flow to the brain to the frontal cortex. So you have blood flow up the garden hoses on the side of your neck called the carotid artery. And there’s studies on this talking about gluten decreasing blood flow and and creating inflammation in the brain. So one, it’s going to do it via structural mechanisms of the nerves and muscles and joints. From an inflammation standpoint, structural to it’s going to affect blood flow, and drive up inflammation to the brain which then can create more neurological activation, immune activation in the brain, which can create symptoms. Have head pain there too.
Evan Brand: So if you want to be smarter and make better decisions, make sure you’re not eating gluten. That sounds pretty convincing to me. Also, let’s get into the nutrient deficiency piece. If you’re eating a meal, let’s say you’re eating pasta and chicken, you’re probably not going to be getting much magnesium. And you’re probably not going to be getting many B vitamins that are going to be essential. Magnesium is probably the most famous mineral for headaches and muscle cramps and things like that. And we could pull it up, but it’s very easy to find in the literature, the link between magnesium deficiency and headaches and of course, the muscle cramping too. So, I mean, that’s an easy one to from the diet perspective. It’s not just the inflammation piece, it’s the absence of the nutrition that you need to help, you know, fuel these these pathways and then also what about like fatty acids? So you know, I remember several people were all we did is give them a high dose omega three couple grams a day and their headaches were gone, just based on adding in some omegas.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, so there’s a couple other components with headaches, right? So of course, like you’re just highlighting nutrients like your brain needs certain nutrients to run and function. So if you look at a lot of these migraine, these natural migraine supplements, you’ll see a couple of common things. You’ll see like B vitamins, especially like nice and in there, you’ll see things like magnesium in there, you’ll see B six in there, these are really important things. Also koku 10s very important for headaches and migraines. So just from a nutrient standpoint, the more nutrient dense anti inflammatory low toxin your foods are, the more these nutrients are going to be present. Okay. And the other component is, the more refined and processed your foods are usually there’s gonna be okay and then also the fat start fats are also anti inflammatory. So remember, inflammation affects the muscles, the nerves, the joints, and the more of an anti inflammatory environment you create with good fats like you just highlighted, that’s going to help. And the other component is blood sugar. So the more poor diet is, usually there’s more processed food, you’re lacking those nutrients but you’re also typically eating more processed refined carbohydrates and junky fats, which causes your blood sugar to go up and down. And these ebbs and flows of blood sugar, especially on the way down, can really create headache issues. So this reactive hypoglycemia kind of blood sugar issue response can create surges of adrenaline and cortisol and those things can definitely create headaches too.
Evan Brand: Yeah, and that could be it could be shakiness, right. It could be irritability, there could be some mood changes, there could be possibly fuzzy thinking, you know, from a cognitive perspective, too. So people may not connect the dots like oh, I had oatmeal and a banana for breakfast. And now here it is. 10am Three hours later. My blood sugar’s crashing. Not only am I irritable and anxious, but all of a sudden I’m getting a headache. What is it? Is it the fluorescent lights in my cubicle at the office? Which Yes, it could be fluorescent lighting is a big trigger for headaches. So it could be some environmental cause too. Is it the moldy office building you’re sitting in is causing the headache maybe? Or is it simply just a blood sugar crashing and it could be all of it. So that’s the thing that you and I do really a good job at is we try to look at all the variables because if you go to like a conventional doc for a headache, maybe they give you an ibuprofen recommendation, or if it’s bad enough, they’ll give you some type of prescription medication, if it’s to the migraine level, like a topamax or something like that. And then you get stuck on these medications. There’s not really any sort of root cause game plan. But if they referred you out to possibly an allergist, if they thought that your headaches were from an allergy problem, the allergist is likely going to recommend some over the counter anti histamine or some type of drug like that or possibly a prescription. And once again, they’re not addressing any of the root cause stuff and you could have gone to several practitioners and no one brought up magnesium deficiency. No one brought up vitamin D, which is critical. No one brought up getting off gluten, getting off grains, getting rid of potentially nuts and seeds if you have histamine type issues. So it’s just amazing how far you could go down the conventional rabbit hole with this issue and still not even get close to the root cause.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, that’s the hard part. Like any Functional Medicine world everything’s like three dimensional right? So you have medications that are like anti inflammatory you have SSRI medications that are affecting serotonin or dopamine or adrenaline. I’ve had really great success using amino acids for headaches too. Now, why are there amino acid deficiencies? Usually it’s a combination of stress burning up serotonin, and dopamine, or it’s a combination of not breaking down and digesting good amino acids, right? So you can see amino acids play a very powerful role. I think you also see it with DLP as well. And headaches. These are all amino acids and if we have poor digestion, and we have poor nutrition to begin with, we got one deficiency coming in, but we also have a deficiency on being able to digest assimilate and utilize these nutrients as well.
Evan Brand: Yeah, so you’re typically going to be using like a complex right, you’re probably not going to spot tree where you’re going to come in with like just the LPA by itself. You may come in with like a, maybe a good quality protein or like collagen or some type of amino acid blend. When you’re talking about amino is correct?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, it depends. So if I have organic acid testing showing serotonin and dopamine is off, we may spot those with specific amino acids. And then of course, you got to have B six there with that and those other nutrients in the background. So, of course, we’re going to be doing a good quality multi, and then we’ll be hitting those amino acids up for sure, especially if we have lab data on it. But we’ll be like, we’re never going to go all in on one thing, right? We’re going to do a good history. And then we’re going to make recommendations. Maybe there’s some structural stuff we got to look at, maybe there’s some diet stuff we got to look at, maybe there’s some supplement stuff we have to look at. And we will kind of get a plan for all three of those things going at once. If we see those issues could be active.
Evan Brand: Yeah, what we do is so fun. It’s not just fun. It’s very effective, because as you mentioned, we’re going to be looking at organic acids testing to try to investigate this issue. We may be looking at stool testing, too, because I know you and I both seen countless times where we’ll see gut inflammation, and that may manifest in terms of headaches too. So gut inflammation is not just Hey, my gut feeling inflamed or irritated? It could be the whole system. You could have headaches, you could have increased fatigue, you could have increased joint pain, and depending on what kind of infections you have, whether it’s I know when I had parasites and H. pylori, I had headaches. Now, what was the mechanism? Well, hard to say. But I would say one mechanism was my digestion was terrible. I had diarrhea, I, you know, you could diagnose me with IBS. That’s what the conventional doctor actually said was, Hey, this is just IBS. Of course, that doesn’t address the infection. So I think that’s one other thing that we should bring up is that if the diet style then we’ve got someone listening saying, hey, look, I’m doing paleo or autoimmune paleo or I’m doing magnesium supplements. My vitamin D is good. I’m off gluten. Why do I still have headaches? Well, you know, then I would look at the gut and then I would look at some of these environmental causes as well because we do know the toxins of various types whether it’s mercury, cadmium, aluminum, any kind of heavy metals, those can affect the brain. Those can affect headaches, mold, toxin, mycotoxins lines. co-infections them opening up a lot of can of worms here, but this is what we do, we try to get all of the potential puzzle pieces and then arrange those in the right order to get you feeling better.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally, totally 100% agree. So you got to look at everything kind of get to the roots. The root cause for sure. So very important. So in regards to different headaches, of course, we have like cluster headaches, we have regular headaches, which kind of you know, cause pain in the head, upper neck. Of course we have migraines, which are more going to be extremely painful headaches, right? Usually there’s gonna be more intense, there’s gonna be kind of that open book kind of sensation, maybe you’ll have a little bit of an aura, there’ll be some eye issues more intense. Obviously with women this can be a big issue when there’s ebbs and flows and estrogen in your cycle. Or you can see it premenstrual Lee, especially when there’s a big premature drop and progesterone or inadequate levels of progesterone. You can see it hormonally. So when you have headaches too, if you’re a female listening, make sure you see if you time it up in your cycle if it’s happening at around simulation, we’re at a specific time. Your cycle. Typically it’s gonna be preventively right before you bleed or right at around menstruation there’s probably ebbs and flows with the hormone. So, you know, we may use herbs to help modulate the upstream signaling from the brain to the ovaries. And we may use some specific hormones that kind of buffer out the ebbs and flows. And then of course, we’re trying to get the adrenals and the HPA g t access all better. So those symptoms are going to be less prevalent.
Evan Brand: Yeah, and you’re saying this could be related to the progesterone dropping too much or prematurely that would also then assume that that’s an estrogen dominant situation going on too, right. So maybe something like calcium D glucerate, which we use, not only for mycotoxins and other things that could also help with the hormonal piece and therefore potentially help with headaches.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep, that’s correct.
Evan Brand: Glutathione’s have been very helpful for me. I don’t want to divert too quickly away from the hormonal thing because I think you brought up a big smoking gun for a lot of women. But you know, Glutathione did a lot of good for me when I first was dealing with headaches and it related to toxicity, just two to 300 milligrams a day, and it would significantly help However, if you do too much I know you remember that night I called you I’m like, Hey, I took a double dose of glutathione My head is frickin killing me remember that? Yeah, I was just experimenting and and I messed up and I mobilized too many toxins. So that could be something to talk with your practitioner about as well as, Hey, are you doing binders? Are you doing some type of collation? Are you doing Glutathione because if you’re pushing too much out, that can also overwhelm this detox system, and it’ll result as a headache.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep. 100%. I don’t love like classifying a lot of these headaches because, okay, whether it’s a cluster headache or attention, headache or a migraine headache, it doesn’t really tell me a lot about the root cause, right? Like someone could have a hormonal issue and could have just a general tension headache while someone else could have like kind of a migraine headache, right. And so it doesn’t tell you like a whole bunch about the root cause. So like, I just kind of when I deal with patients I kind of make a note of what’s going on, I try to connect it to things that are happening day in, day out, like meaning if we see it happen like right after a meal, we may think blood sugar. If we see it happen at things throughout the cycle, it could be if we it could be more hormonally base. If it’s just kind of random. Then I’m going to be asking about physical what’s physical stress look like in regards to posture in regards to muscle tone in regards to seeing a chiropractor in regards to what your office life like is like, when you’re sitting in a chair, like, I’ll try to connect the dots with those things. But the kind of headache you have, for me, doesn’t matter as much, but try to connect it to the onset. For me, that tends to matter a little bit. But even if we can’t really get a big connection there, I just still do all these things that I mentioned and I still get amazing results.
Evan Brand: Yeah, that’s the fun thing is we kind of fix stuff by accident sometimes meaning we’re going to run you through our protocols and procedures to get a good workup on you and then oh Hey, by the way, look at these major deficiencies and B vitamins. Oh hey, look at these neurotransmitter imbalances. Oh hey, look at the hormones. Oh, hey, look at the gut infections. We need to fix all this and then boom, guess what? The headaches went away. Now I agree with your comment about we don’t really care about where or what the category or classification of the headache is. I would agree except for the occipital, the back of the head headaches because for me that definitely is 100% linked to bartonella which is a type of infection that you can get from fleas. So if you have cats, if you have dogs, if you’re not keeping up with their flea preventatives, and you get a flea on you, they do transmit bartonella mosquitoes, there is some talk about mosquitoes transmitting bartonella. And then, of course, most infamous, are ticks transmitting bartonella. And I can tell you on the back of the head, man, it gets really tender. Unfortunately, I’ve had a lot of issues of bartonella. And I will notice just it’s it’s tender back there and I haven’t really linked it to to anything else. No, maybe it’s structural. Maybe I’m talking to you, right Now and I’m kind of turtle heading forward by accident to make sure I’m talking into the microphone. But I think, I think part nail is definitely a big back of the head.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, it’s good to know, it’s good to know that’s good to have that history. I mean, you could have back of the head issues, though just from, you know, forehead posture, and then these muscles, these capitas muscles that connect in the back could also get overly tight as well, just from poor posture. So it’s good, it’s good to kind of look at everything right? And then who knows, right? It’s kind of like with gluten, when you have an infection like that it can drive more inflammation, when there’s more inflammation, you’re going to have less blood flow to the muscles, the muscles are going to be less pliable, and they’re more easy to get, you know, taut and tender fibers and develop trigger points because of the inflammation. So everything’s connected, but I think it’s good. You know, it’s something that you add to like kind of your differential diagnosis as a clinician. Okay, good back of the habit. We’ll keep an eye out for co infections. We’ll keep an eye out for these underlying issues as well. I get smart.
Evan Brand: Do you want to talk about any of the other food allergies I mean, we’ve seen people with like Nightshade issues where peppers tomatoes could cause some issues, potentially headaches. What about dairy? Do you want to talk on those at all?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I mean, I see dairy, I see potential nuts and seeds. I see all those things as as a potential driver. It’s unbelievable. Because like having done you know, this job for over a decade and seeing thousands of patients, you have common things that are just like the most common like gluten and dairy right? And blood sugar issues been there. Sometimes there’s just weird things like, okay, eggs, eggs cause a problem. While eggs are a really awesome kind of Paleo Food. You know, it’s sucks that you can’t eat eggs. But eggs are a great food. And that’s crazy that that’s causing your headache. Wow. Okay, so we’ll just keep an eye on that. That’s why, you know, we have a pretty strict elimination diet that we follow in the beginning just to rule out those variables. Because even things that I want that patient to be able to consume, and I’m like, and I wish I could have eggs, but sometimes they can’t. And that can get better over time as we heal the gut. And as the immune system gets better, and the gut gets better, so even that can still be healed over time for sure.
Evan Brand: Yeah, I don’t know. I don’t know if you remember you and I talking about this, but For a while I was doing avocados like every single day. And then all of a sudden I just had major pressure in my temples. I mean, it was like my head was being squeezed in a vise I thought, oh my god, what is this? So I just went through the diet and started tracking things and discovered it was avocado. So I think I was just doing too much histamine.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, you have you’ve tired mean stuffing is like chocolates and wines and cheese, right? The tire mean kind of amino acid compound can drive headaches in some people as well. Right? And so that’s where it’s nice to do that kind of investigation. Hey, is it connected to avocados? Is that a food allergy thing? Is it a histamine thing? Right? Could it be a histamine, right? We know headaches. You would think there’s a lot of constriction in the brain vessels, right? with headaches. It’s actually the opposite. There’s a lot of vezo dilation in the brain vessels and things like histamine actually Dr. Faisal dilation that’s why like when you bump your elbow, right, well, there’s a histamine immune response happening Well, does your elbow become more swelled or less well when you bump it or more swelling or Why is that? Because histamine is actually a strong vezo dilator. It opens things up to help get those immune cells in there to go after the inflammation. So, you know, if we see things like histamine being a driving factor, we’ll keep an eye on that. I mean that that’s important to look at. Anything else you want to add about there?
Evan Brand: Yeah, let me comment on that. So that would explain why. Back in the day when my wife and I first got together, she had major, major headaches, you know, and we were trying to track it through the diet. And at the time, she was using the excedrin which was that pain medication with the caffeine?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep, that cause constriction.
Evan Brand: And that was the only thing that helped her with the headache. And then Luckily, she finally listened to me and we got her off gluten and got her diet dialed in and got her got taken care of and cleaned up all of her personal care products and Hooray, no more headaches. So.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. So that’s a big thing. So if you’re doing caffeine and you have a headache, could it help? Yes, definitely could help may not be your root cause and it may be A palliative thing, right? But definitely can help.
Evan Brand: On withdrawals too right caffeine withdrawals if you were on a bunch and then tried to get off caffeine that would also cause kind of a rebound headache as well. And then what about blood pressure? For a while, you know, I was noticing blood pressure spikes, and that was directly linked to headaches. I mean, that’s an easy one. If you’re walking around with 145 over 95 or higher as your as your blood pressure and you’re in kind of a stage one or stage two hypertension, that’s a big, big thing. And that’s easy, low hanging fruit to address as long as you can find the root cause of it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. Yep. So that’s really important to look at. Also, um, just minerals like hydration and minerals are a big thing. I did a big long fast I fasted for two days, and when I was about 36 hours into it, I really had a strong headache like really bad headache. I was doing minerals, I was doing hydration. I was even testing my blood sugar like my blood sugar was around 80 By the way, but I personally Believe I felt an inner tremble and inner bit of jitteriness, so I believe my blood sugar was lifted to 80 by adrenaline and cortisol. So that’s the thing like fasting could create a blood sugar issue may not show on it like I got my keto Mojo, like meter right here. So I was like testing my blood sugar and I’m sitting around at like, that’s not like 60 or 50 like, and I even tested my ketones. My ketones were like around point five to one millimoles so that-
Evan Brand: -was that was that where you would expect to be or the ketones lower indicating that the body with the stress response kind of kick you out or prevented you from being in a deeper?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think it kicked me out a little bit because I’m typically at about point five anyway without fasting. So and I tested you know, I tested every now and then I was at point 5.7 last week. Now I keep a very low carb high fat breakfast, right? And I’m typically around point five 2.7 and I was over a day in and I was around point five 2.7 I didn’t see a huge Drop. Now, in two days, I dropped six pounds of weight just from water and not having any anything on my body. So I was losing a lot of weight on that side of the fence. But in general, fasting could potentially be a blood sugar stressor, even if it doesn’t show up on the meter. Because you could have other hormones picking it up. Yes, and adrenaline and then that could potentially cause more issues. neurologically,
Evan Brand: That’s a super, super good point that 99% of people don’t know. Hey, wait a second. I don’t have a blood sugar problem. But you didn’t see it. You didn’t see that on paper unless you had like a continuous monitor. Right? And then it crashed and then you saw the spike later. That would have been interesting.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And I broke my fast with bacon and eggs and within one to two hours, headache gone.
Evan Brand: Cool. So what do you think I will what what was the magic remedy and the bacon and eggs that cured the headache?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, I mean, it’s gonna be nutrition and blood sugar. Yeah. I mean, it’s just stress response if your body isn’t getting nutrition for two days, like actual nutrients, your body’s gonna be like what’s going on here. So there’s gonna be a stress response there, especially when I’m used to having a nutrient dense diet. So just getting lots of good fats, lots of good proteins in there. Just stabilize things out. So that’s why if you’re going too fast, you know, if you’re going to do a fast also, I worked for two days when I fast it. So I generally recommend keeping your fast on non stressful days where you can relax and chill out. That way, you’re not under as much stress. And you’re not because the fast is already a stressor. So you don’t want to add more stress to that. And so ideally, finding days where they aren’t that stressful if you’re going to do a 24 or 36 or 48 hour fast, if not intermittent fast, are probably the best because then you can still get all your nutrients in like a six hour window and still have a lot of that those fasting benefits, which is probably better. It’s more it’s easier to do.
Evan Brand: Yep. And it would be nice if we could get everyone to somewhat of a stable level. have health because since fasting has become kind of a popular, I guess you’d call it a trend. I hate to call it a trend, but I guess it is. You’ve got so many people doing it as a starting place. Like they’ll go from a conventional diet and then they’ll just start doing fasting. It’s like, Ah, you’re already nutrient deprived, you really need to get like healthy with your diet first and then do it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, this is 100%. Like, let’s say the average person is eating this many calories, right? And the nutrient levels are here. So I’m kind of making hand gestures, high amount of calories, low amount of nutrients. What’s the easiest first step here is let’s just increase the nutrients right and balance the macros. Like why are we going to cut all the calories, aka nutrients down? If they already have a lot of calories, and they don’t have a lot of nutrients, but doesn’t make sense. It’s not the low hanging fruit. Right? It’s like taking someone who has an exercise in a while and just throwing them into a CrossFit class, but gonna be overly sore, overly achy, and they’re gonna have an aversion to it in the future.
Evan Brand: That the aversion is key because then they’ll say, Oh, my God, fasting was terrible. It’s like damn, Well, how do you? That’s kind of you got to you got to break that down for me. What do you mean? What were you eating before then? What were your stress levels? Like you said, were you working? Was this on the weekend when you weren’t stressed? What was your blood sugar? Did you did you write before you fasted? Did you do a reset cup? You’re like, I’m gonna have one last piece of cake. And then I’m going to do a three day fast. I mean, what was it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, I mean, like, my favorite kind of fast day in day out is I’ll have like a simple something kind of fat in the morning and then I won’t eat till like five or 6pm that night. And I’ll just do a little bit of bone broth at night or I in the afternoon. I like just something simple like that kind of rest my tummy for eight to 10 hours have a nice bigger dinner. So if I’m going to go out to eat, I’ll do a lot of that sometimes just so I can get my appetite up. And if I consume a little bit of extra calories at night, it’s okay because I’ll have a little more metabolic flexibility to handle it.
Evan Brand: We’ll do a all about fasting podcast soon. If you have questions, specific concerns, experiences you want to share about those. Please if you’re watching on Doctor Justin’s YouTube channel, let us know. But we should do a whole thing on that because I think there are good ways and bad ways to do it. I think we have before but it’s always good to do to do updates on those.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% totally agree. So blood sugar stuff. nutrients, right B6, B vitamins riboflavin, niacin, thionine, herbs, ginger, feverfew, we already talked about magnesium, I think. And then of course, things like five HTP and tyrosine can be really helpful, but again, not for everyone. Those are really good things out of the gates, kokyu 10s, and other important nutrient keeping the inflammation down via some of the bad foods. We chatted about gluten and dairy and refined sugar out of the gates and then look at some of the structural components, you know, is the structural component a root cause thing, or is it or is it an association with other inflammation stuff happening hormonally or in your diet, so you got to connect the two and sometimes you may have two issues you have to address at the same time. You may need to see the chiropractor or the massage or the soft tissue or make the postural changes while you change your diet and do other things. Sometimes you have to do both. So it’s never just like a one off kind of thing. It’s always good to do both, especially if you want results faster.
Evan Brand: Yeah. Yeah, well said just a couple quick things, dehydration, I mean for all my clients out there listening that are doing binders, charcoal and seal lights and clays, whatever else. I mean, when you’re pulling out toxins, we you and I’ve said this a million times we’ll say it a million in one today the solution to pollution is dilution. So aka drink more clean, good filtered water, whether it’s a Berkey or ro with minerals, whatever you can do to get good filtered water, you got to drink, drink, drink, drink, drink, most people are chronically dehydrated. If you and I look at blood work, we’ll see this all the time. And then peppermint lavender essential oils, those are easy, low hanging fruits. I’m not one of those people that thinks the essential oils are going to cure everything. However, there were times in my life where I had miserable headaches and I would do a couple drops of lavender essential oil on my temples and it would help or I would do a little bit on the wrist and breathe it in and that would help or if it was a tummy ache and headache I would do a little topically on the stomach with the peppermint and that reduce the headache. So those things can be helpful too.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% Yeah, totally appreciate that. So anyone listening to this, try to you know, grab hold of some of the simple actionable information that we kind of outlined off the bat. If this issue has been going on for a while, feel free to reach out to Evan, EvanBrand.com or Justin, got myself, Dr. J. at JustinHealth.com you’ll see scheduled links where you can reach out to both of us we are available worldwide to provide your functional medicine natural health needs. Also, if you guys enjoyed it, share it with friends and family put down below in the comments, your own experiences with headaches and what’s worked and what hasn’t worked, what things that really move the needle for you. And we really appreciate a review and iTunes review from y’all. So EvanBrand.com/iTunes, JustinHealth.com/iTunes for review. That’d be amazing. And anything else you want to leave us with?
Evan Brand: No, that’s it. You did a great job. Thanks for the conversation. It’s always a blast and we’ll be back next week.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent chat. Give a good one. Take care. Bye.
References:
Audio Podcast:
https://justinhealth.libsyn.com/can-functional-medicine-manage-headaches-podcast-301
Improving Mitochondrial Function | Podcast #222
Today’s episode talks about mitochondrial health. Listen as Dr. Justin and Dr. Tim, a doctorate of Physical Therapy (DPT), a nutritional biochemist and functional endocrinologist engage in an informative discussion about improving the mitochondria, ways to protect the DNA on the mitochondrial side from oxidative stress and damage and importance of Superoxide Dismutase (SOD).
Watch the video and answer the questions about genetic markers that we need to look at to gleam a predisposition of having mitochondrial stress or dysfunction, learn the effects of glutathione deficiency and superoxide dismutase, and many more!
Dr. Tim Jackson
In this episode, we cover:
00:17 Genetic Markers
01:42 Ways to Protect DNA from Oxidative Stress and Damage
09:55 Carnitine
15:31 Three Pronged Approach: Repair, Protect and Fuel
29:06 Glutathione S-transferase Mu
Dr. Tim Jackson: Dr. Justin, thanks for having me. It’s always a pleasure.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very good. Well, what’s going on there? We were talking about some genetic test, uhm, pre-called with one of my patients, you gave me some good feedback, I appreciate that. Let’s dive in to some genetic markers that we can look at to maybe gleam a predisposition for having some mitochondrial stress or dysfunction. What would those be?
Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah. So, uh, looking at superoxide dismutase or SOD-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Tim Jackson: -polymorphisms, uh, along with polymorphisms in the glutathione pathway, whether it’s uh, GSTN uhm or GPX, uh because both glutathione and Superoxide Dismutase are the two bodyguards that sit in front of your mitochondria. Uhm, our nuclear DNA is protected by histones and so is not as susceptible to oxidative damage.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And what are histones?
Dr. Tim Jackson: Histones are just proteins uhm, that help, uh, kinda coil up uh-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Tim Jackson: -the DNA, and uh, organize it and also protect it. Uh, and mitochondrial DNA uh, does not have those, so it’s kind of sitting out uh-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Aah…
Dr. Tim Jackson: -alone by itself. And if you’re deficient in glutathione and superoxide dismutase, then uh, it’s much easier for the mitochondria to become damaged.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So regular DNAs has histones which protect that coil up around the DNA, but mitochondrial DNA does not have histones that make it more vulnerable, is that correct?
Dr. Tim Jackson: Right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Ok, got it. So, what does that mean? What can we do to protect our DNA on the mitochondrial side, uhm, form oxidative stress and damage?
Dr. Tim Jackson: Well, obviously, you know, looking at things like stealth infections, mold, dysbiosis, blood sugar imbalances, all of those uhm, will create inflammation and ultimately stress the mitochondria-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Tim Jackson: -uh but in order to, you know, protect it and upregulate the SOD compound or superoxide dismutase and glutathione, uh, we can use things that upregulate NRF2. And NRF2 is just uh ce- cellular control switch, uhm that is responsible for detoxifying, uh, certain compounds-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Tim Jackson: -but also upregulating your antioxidant, your endogenous antioxidant production. So if we can do things that control many different reactions-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Tim Jackson: -that’s a lot better than going, you know, tip-for-tat, trying to uhm, you know, correct imbalances.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, got it. So let’s repeat those nutrients. So, obviously, superoxide dismutase is a- is a big one, and where can we get that supplementally?
Dr. Tim Jackson: So, there are several companies that have uh, SOD, uhm, in the capsule or tablet. Uh, I haven’t seen any good data on how terrible it is, uhm, so, I try to do things that will upregulate it upstream, uhm, instead of just uh, you know, trying to absorb even in the uh- and optimally helping gut, I don’t know how will absorb SOD would be. Uh, but if you upregulate NRF2, and things- plenty of things can do that. Uh, but one that’s specific to the mitochondria is molecular-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Tim Jackson: -hydrogen. And molecular hydrogen- what makes it so unique, is that it’s-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hmm.
Dr. Tim Jackson: -really tiny. So it can get to where we need it to go, which is in the mitochondria.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it.
Dr. Tim Jackson: It- it helps to stab in the nasty- really nasty free radical called peroxynitrite.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.
Dr. Tim Jackson: And not only that, it stimulates the production and creation of new mitochondria, which the only other things to do that are exercise and PQQ.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent, very good. What about fasting? How much does fasting have an impact on the mitochondria?
Dr. Tim Jackson: Uh, it has a tremendous impact uhm, in terms of upregulating, you know, autophagy, cleaning the cells-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Dr. Tim Jackson: -uh, that sort of thing. Uh, the only thing I would caution with fasting is that, you know, if someone’s HPA, thyroid, gut, vanadyl axis [crosstalk], and uh, you fast, then that may in fact worsen their metabolism and metabolic rate.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And that’s a thing. I see a lot of people with adrenal issues and also thyroid issues, and they may even have some blood sugar stuff, and they’re hearing all the rage of fasting that people getting lots of benefits but that may actually exacerbate their issues, right, it can increase the HPA-TA, or, you know, increase that stress and it can even potentially lower thyroid hormone more by increasing reversed T3.
Dr. Tim Jackson: Right, yeah, absolutely. And uh, lot of times, you know, you can develop hypothyroid symptoms-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Tim Jackson: -uhm, adrenal insufficiency-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.
Dr. Tim Jackson: -and/or cortisol resistance.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. Good. So, we have- you mentioned- was that the molecular hydrogen you mentioned- you mentioned the superoxide dismutase, correct? Uh-
Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Err- what about various compounds like resveratrol or curcumin, what do you think about them? How do they do with the mitochondria?
Dr. Tim Jackson: So, curcumin works on uh, control switch called NF-kappa-beta. And basically, uh, you know, genes generally aren’t turned completely on or off, it’s more-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Tim Jackson: -like adjusting the volume on your stereo. And so, curcumin helps downregulate NF-kappa-beta-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it.
Dr. Tim Jackson: -and that results in less inflammatory markers which is-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Tim Jackson: -cytokines-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.
Dr. Tim Jackson: -uh, TNF-alpha, ___[05:48]. And so, curcumin, uh, works, uh, on several levels. It upregulates glutathione by up to 600%-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Tim Jackson: -uh, it downregulates NF-kappa-beta, so-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.
Dr. Tim Jackson: -you’re not giving the inflammatory stress. And that’s also has some antimicrobial properties. And, uh, not to get too far off topic but certain viruses can get- retroviruses can get stuck in the mitochondria. And if- if you have a patient, or if you’re someone who- you’ve been taking a lot of CoQ10, you’ve been taking lot of carnitine, you might even have done IV-NAD, and you didn’t felt benefit, then it means your mitochondria are damaged and we need to repair them. Uhm, and you tell me when you want me to go into the three pronged approach of how to heal the mitochondria.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s great, excellent. So is there anythi- other supplements you can- you can highlight before we dive into that? What about resveratrol? People have talked about that. What’s your take on resveratrol?
Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah, uhm- it- it’s not very absorbed, uhm-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Tim Jackson: -by most companies. Uhm, you know, even if you add uh-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Tim Jackson: -___[07:01] to it, or black pepper. Uh there was a company that had transdermal resveratrol-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Tim Jackson: -but I think the vinyl FDH shut them down. Uhm but I think there are a few products out there uhm, that have liposomal resveratrol.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Tim Jackson: And so, you know, that would be better absorbed, for sure. Uhm, but yeah, I mean, it works on multiple levels, it can help, you know, with hormone metabolism, uhm, and free radical stress-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hmm.
Dr. Tim Jackson: -anti-aging, so many things.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool. Any other supplements you wanna highlight, kinda low-hanging fruit nutrients, you wanna make note of?
Dr. Tim Jackson: Uhm- B- well, I would say, you know, L-carnitine, or Acetylcarnitine.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Tim Jackson: Uhm, you know, if you had certain polymorphisms, you might not be able to carry fatty acids into the mitochondria-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mmm.
Dr. Tim Jackson: -where they get burned for energy-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.
Dr. Tim Jackson: -what we call beta-oxidation.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.
Dr. Tim Jackson: And so Acetylcarnitine is like an uber for fatty acids-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: American shuttle.
Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah. Exactly. And so, you know, that’s a supplement that uhm, helps mitochondrial health, helps improve metabolism, uhm it can help burn fat, uhm, energy production, etc. So, yeah, I would say that- that’s definitely low-hanging fruit. Uhm, and then, you know, the molecular hydrogen, you’re not to harp on that too much but it- it does so many different things. Uhm-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: How do you get the molecular hydrogen? I know you mentioned Cindy Crawford has a skin-care line with those compounds in it. I know you mentioned there’s a molecular hydrogen machine that you’ve been supporting and using for a while.
Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: How we can get more molecular hydrogen into our body?
Dr. Tim Jackson: So, uh, the company trusii, T-R-U-S-I-I, uh, there’s many companies offering molecular hydrogen machines. But this company, uhm, they have a- a really great machine, uhm depending on how much you’ll wanna spend, uhm you just add reverse osmosis or ___[09:08] as water. And it’s- uhm, add some molecular hydrogen to it, uhm, so you don’t have to keep buying out the supplement, you know, every month. It’s a better alternative investment in my opinion. Uhm, the more expensive machine also contains a nasal cannula-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Tim Jackson: -so you can breathe that in, uhm, and molecular hydrogen. So the highest concentration of mitochondria is in our nervous system.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Tim Jackson: The second co- highest concentration is in our heart. Uhm, and so, by improving uh, mitochondrial function, we can improve brain health, brain fog, fatigue, uhm, you know, difficulty concentrating, and also, uhm, have better for fusion to our tissues, because we have better cardiac output.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, interesting, very good. Awesome. Uh, one thing I wanted to highlight too, you were talking about carnitine a minute ago. Carnitine is important because there’s key amino acids you need to make it. Methionine and lysine are really important ones, and a lot of those amino acids are missing in vegetarian type diets. So if you’re not eating animal products, we are not getting supplemental amino acids while being vegetarian, it may be hard- you’d be missing some of those key nutrients that are important for making carnitine. [Crosstalk]
Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah. I mean, absolutely. And the process of methylation, uh, which is you know, collection of a hundred and- or almost 200 different uh reactions in the body. Uh, helps reduce CoQ10 and the L-carnitine. And so if you’re deficient in B12 or methyl folate, or your methylation cycles disrupted because of uh heavy metals or environmental pollutants, then you won’t create as much endogenous uhm L-carnitine and CoQ10.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting. And can you talk more about methylation. So, a methyl group is a carbon in 3 hydrogen. So essentially hen we methylate, we’re just binding those compounds, uhm, to whatever that reaction is, whether it’s neurotransmitters or B-Vitamins. Can you talk kinda more about it like, what does that really- what’s really happening kinda at a biochemical level inside of our cells when we’re methylating and- and where does this happen?
Dr. Tim Jackson: Uh, so it happens uhm, and all the cells in the body and it involves no just B12 and methyl folate but all the other B-Vitamins, as well as-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Tim Jackson: -mineral cofactors such as magnesium and zinc. Uhm, and-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Tim Jackson: -you know, you probably heard of supplements like TMG or DMG-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Dr. Tim Jackson: -uhm, those are-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: [Crosstalk]
Dr. Tim Jackson: -yeah those are major methyl burners uhm that have been shown to improve cognitive function. Uhm, but methylation is responsible for everything from detoxification, to producing glutathione to uh, producing certain immune cells, the CD4, CD8, T-helper, T-suppressor cells. Uhm, and also, metabolism of your estrogens. So-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Tim Jackson: -if you’re not methylating your estrogens, you tend to recycle or reabsorb them. And uh, you know, methylation can get turned off, uh, independent of any polymorphisms, you know. But if you have polymorphisms and uh methylation or MTHFR, then that certainly uhm, you know tells us that you at some point, you know, in the right context, need both B12 and methyl folate along with the other B-Vitamins.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And so what’s happening in the body? These nutrients are- are- they’re affecting obviously brain chemicals or affecting detoxification like, what’s happening? Like, just to keep it simple.
Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah, so, basically adding a methyl group, uhm, helps with the creation of glutathione, but you’re also getting neurotransmitters like ___[12:54]
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Tim Jackson: -to turn into dopamine, produce.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Tim Jackson: Uh, there’s a condition called cerebral folate deficiency, where uh, due to certain antibodies, uhm, you might have uh, enough, uhm methylfolate or folinic acid in your cells but it might not be in the cerebral spinal fluid.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Tim Jackson: And uhm there are a couple labs I think that test for it now, it used to be mostly research-based, uhm but those people to need higher doses of methylfolate-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Tim Jackson: Uhm with the other thing with uh B12 is that it needs a- a transporter, a mover. So, lithium orotate, the trace mineral, not the psychotropic drug but, it helps uhm transport vitamin B12.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, very cool. I know you mentioned that on- on our last podcast we did together. That’s very good. So we have this carbon-hydrogens, then we need all these nutrients, trimethylglycine or- or HCL, essentially betaines gonna have a lot of that in there. Our methylating B-Vitamins like B6, B9, B12, ideally, we’re having uhm folate, not folic acid, we’re having methylated or LMTHF folate, we also may be doing choline like B1, like riboflavin, thiamine, nycine as well.
Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah. So, uhm all the B’s, biotin, etc., uhm all need to be there for the methylation cycle to occur. Uhm, and, you know, you could- there are many polymorphisms that we won’t give into that can affect the methylation cycle outside of MTHFR. Uhm, so, you know, it’s really ab- about the environment and the terrain that determines whether these-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Tim Jackson: -polymorphisms expressed or not.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool. Alright, so let’s go dive into your 3-prong approach. So, what does that look like and- and how do you apply that clinically with your patients?
Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah. So, basically, err, we’ve been taught that you know, okay, give more CoQ10, give more carnitine.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep.
Dr. Tim Jackson: And let- let’s say you have a ferrari, and the transmission’s out. Putting more gasoline in the gas tank is not gonna help the-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Tim Jackson: -transmission. And that’s what you’re doing when you’re just giving CoQ10 or carnitine. And that’s okay uh, but you have to adjust the other aspects and one of them we mentioned earlier, and that’s uh, protecting the mitochondria. How do we protect them? We make sure we have adequate glutathione, reduced glutathione, not oxidized glutathione, and uh optimal levels of SOD or superoxide dismutase.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting. Okay, got it.
Dr. Tim Jackson: And so, the 3-pronged approach is protect the mitochondria, the antioxidants, provide mitochondrial fuel, you know with L-carnitine, CoQ10 etc.-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: PQQ.
Dr. Tim Jackson: PQQ, NAD, uh nicotine ___[15:47]-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.
Dr. Tim Jackson: -a- all those things. And then the 3rd of uh aspect or 3rd uhm, prong of the approach is to repair the mitochondrial membranes. And so those get damaged from inflammation, and also certain pesticides and petrochemicals, and uhm, you can use different supplements uhm that have high doses of phospholipids, uhm, ___[16:14] in them to help remodel the mitochondria, and uh, you know, it’s been studied in patients with chronic fatigue syndrome, uhm to help the mitochondria for sure-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Tim Jackson: -uhm, so the 3 pronged approach, just to summarize is, protect the mitochondria with glutathione superoxide dismutase, repair the mitochondrial membranes with uhm NT factor energy, or uhm, uh group of phospholipids that are gonna rehab or rehabilitate mitochondrial membrane, and then provide mitochondrial fuel via CoQ10, carnitine, PQQ, NAD, etc.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it. So, repair, protect, and fuel. So, protection is glutathione, antioxidants. Would curcumin also fall into that category too?
Dr. Tim Jackson: Curcumin, uhm helps to upregulate glutathione-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So I guess it could right ’cause glutathione’s uh antioxidant. So, would it kinda have some protection qualities, right?
Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah, absolutely. And because it lowers uh inflammatory markers-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Dr. Tim Jackson: -uh that’s gonna put less oxygenated stress on the mitochondria-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Good. Excellent-
Dr. Tim Jackson: -and-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -so that’s the protection. Then on the fuel, that’s like B-Vitamins, CoQ10, carnitine, PQQ and then with- with like the niagen or the- the nicotinamide compounds fit into that category?
Dr. Tim Jackson: Uh they- uh could uh potentially but I think of them more as uh mitochondrial fuel.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh that’s more- yeah, fuel, that’s in- in that fuel, yup. Correct?
Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah. And so, uhm you know, the- they can definitely help and you know, in the clinic we’d use uh IV-NAD, it’s great for uh drug detox-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It burns though doesn’t it?
Dr. Tim Jackson: Uh, it should be between a 6- and 8-hour drip, and you have to do it 10 days consecutively, you can’t miss a day. Uhm, and that can help for example people who’d take in the antibiotics that fall under the 4-Quinolone-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh yeah.
Dr. Tim Jackson: [Crosstalk]
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Lot of damage.
Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah, lot of damage. So, IV-NAD, coupled with the NT factor energy, uhm can help the mitochondria for sure.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And then on the- so you have the repair side which is like a lot of the- so we have the protect which is lot of the antioxidants, the fuel is more of the nutrients we just mentioned, the NAD, the B-Vitamins and CoQ10, carnitine. And then repair, it was- it was- I’m sorry, protect, fuel and then repair. And the repair is gonna be more glutathione, and a more sulfur amino, correct?
Dr. Tim Jackson: So the repairs are gonna be more of the NT factor energy, the phospholipid complex-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Phospholipids. Okay, and then how-
Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: What does that mean supplement wise? What supplements would you look for, and then what foods, what good phospholipids can we eat in our diet- consume in our diet that will help?
Dr. Tim Jackson: Uh, well so, uh anything uh, like sunflower, lecithin, as a supplement-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it.
Dr. Tim Jackson: -to the health but, there’s actually a product called uh NT-factor energy-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mmm.
Dr. Tim Jackson: Uhm, ___[19:15] helped developed it. And uh certain, you know, chemicals and pesticides can get lodged into the mitochondria. And according to him, uh the NT-factor energy can take up to a year that can help displace some of these chemicals from the mitochondria.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very good, excellent. I love that! I mean, really good. Protect, fuel and then repair. And that makes a lot of sense. And then how are you applying this with your patients? So if someone comes into your clinic, are you just starting with diet and lifestyle changes first, uh what lab test are you doing, how does this plug into your clinical model when you work with patients?
Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah, so, I mean, their- uh, actually the U.K. has some really good mitochondrial testing because of the work of Dr. Sarah Myhill. Uhm and I think the lab is called RED Labs. Uh, but it- you can measure various markers here, you know-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Tim Jackson: -cerum, CoQ10- [crosstalk], pyruvate, lactate, etc. Uh you can look at fatty acid markers on an organic acids test-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.
Dr. Tim Jackson: -if they’re high, that means they’re not-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: [Crosstalk]
Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah. They’re not- yes, not being transported into the into the mitochondria, you might need some L-carnitine. And the difference between L-carnitine and acetyl carnitine – acetyl carnitine can cross the blood brain barrier. And so it can work on neurotransmitters as well as uh mitochondrial health.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And then carnitine’s- like L-carnitine is more downstream, right?
Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So you would use that to improve the carnitine shuttle and to help improve fatty acid oxidation and energy burning from fat, right?
Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah. And then kids, on the spectrum who have low muscle tone, uhm, you know we definitely use uh lot of carnitine, CoQ10, you know, the gold standard in traditional uhm mitochondrial uh disorders is the muscle biopsy. But you know, traditional medicine does a great job of finding things if aren’t there on the extreme here, or extreme here, but most of the world exist on this continuum. And just because you’re on that continuum doesn’t mean you don’t have it- an issue for it to be corrected.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And we can also use carnitine too to help modulate thyroid hormones too, I mean, if you’re on the hyper side or on the grave’s or hyper side, carnitine is some really great modulatory effects, and also with the lithium orotate as well. So, 2 interesting mitochondrial compounds but also help with modulating high thyroid function.
Dr. Tim Jackson: Mm-hmm- mm-hmm. Absolutely. Definitely.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Alright, to continue walking everyone through your kind of how you would, you know, work up a patient and incorporate this 3-pronged approach.
Dr. Tim Jackson: So basically, the more systems that are involved in someone’s symptom presentation, the more you should take uh mitochondrial dysfunction. And, you know, mitochondria- by making the mitochondria work better, everything in your body will work better.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Tim Jackson: Now off-air we were talking about uh, you know, the different, uh Kindle Store that I trained with an Austin Texas, you know he calls-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Dr. Tim Jackson: -an mitochondrial bucket.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Dr. Tim Jackson: And so, let’s say you start uh today working on healing your mitochondria, you’re not gonna notice all the benefit that you will 6 months down the road. Uh the first system that goes offline when the mitochondria are dysfunctional, is the nervous system. So, brain fog, fatigue, memory issues, etc. And that’s one reason why the IV NAD issues for drug rehab because it helps kind of rehabilitate the brain and so those cravings for the drugs and withdrawals go down dramatically.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And what did you learn specifically from Kindle when you were down in Austin?
Dr. Tim Jackson: Uh methylation, you know, at that time back in 2012, you know, it was all uh checking bile titers, and using uh anti barrels, uh, and liquid boron for uhm cerebral folate deficiency, uhm, and the mitochondria at the time he wasn’t as comprehensive uh with it, uhm but now he’s gotten more so.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, interesting. Alright, next. What else?
Dr. Tim Jackson: Uhm, so, you know, outside of the 3-pronged approach, the way, you know, that I uhm look at the mitochondria and- and work with someone uhm with mitochondrial issues is to uh, you know, again, upregulate glutathione. Some people may not be able to tolerate glutathione the beginning-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And then what happens? If that is the case and they can’t even handle sulfur amino acids like methionine or cysteine or NAC or taurine or- I don’t- m- maybe they had little taurine but what would you do? How would you incorporate those aminos which are tapered in, would you incorporate binders, what would you do?
Dr. Tim Jackson: So, I would look at the potential for SIBO, and the production of hydrogen sulfide gas. Uhm, I’d seen that happen a lot, uhm, you can also- Amy Yasko has a list of, you know, foods that are really high in sulfur, uhm, and so I would, you know, you might want go in a low sulfur diet for a period of time. Uhm, but basically, uhm using uh, like the ___[24:32]-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah molybdenum? Mm-hmm?
Dr. Tim Jackson: Molybdenum, yeah. That uh will help that CBS polymorphism work as well.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Nice.
Dr. Tim Jackson: And or facilitate that enzyme working better. Uh, so someone can’t tolerate glutathione, uhm, you know, we use it uh, in lower doses, uh or we’ll back off completely, open the drainage pathways to the body, make sure the biles are moving, we’re supporting the kidneys and liver and lymphatic system, and then out again.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, what does that mean? Because obviously, I mean you need glutathione to detoxify it- it’s a great antioxidant, right, it’s a great protector of our uhm, our mitochondria. So, obviously we need it. So why does that mean like, do we have to just decrease it, doesn’t that decrease our mitochondria’s ability to be protected because it doesn’t have the histones, right? So what happens? I mean, is it- is it kind of a short-term kind of mindset?
Dr. Tim Jackson: Well, yes. it’s short term mindset for sure because you now- you definitely need it, but in people who are really toxic, uhm their elimination pathways are compromised, then, you know, they’re not gonna be able to tolerate it. And-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So- so the reactions are because we’re mobilizing too much crap? Or too much toxin essentially?
Dr. Tim Jackson: Typically, yes.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And so when you try to upregulate like the lymph, are we giving like certain gentle herbs that may upregulate the lymph or the detox just to kinda generally allow things to to flow better and not get excited, do we add in binders? What does that look like?
Dr. Tim Jackson: Drainage remedies- I use drainage remedies uhm, to support the lymphatic system. You can use things like coke root- red root-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Dr. Tim Jackson: -uhm, but also, you know, vibration plate, chi machines, mini rebounders to get the lymphatic system moving, dry skin brushing, uhm drainage remedies for sure for the kidneys, liver, uhm and lymphatic system.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. ___[26:25] is great, I’ve used it on my wife uh before she had a- almost little bit of mastitis, breastfeeding and that works really well, it really opens things up, I love ___[26:33], that’s great.
Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s very good. Yeah, so, in general, Amy Yasko has the low sulfur diet, we’ll put the links in for the Amy Yasko diet. So we kinda keep some of the sulfur down, we made you what some breath testing to look at hydrogen sulfide, and- and why would that be a problem? What’s happening with that SIBO or that hydrogen sulfide overgrowth that is affecting glutathione or making us more s- uh- sensitive to sulfur amino acids?
Dr. Tim Jackson: Well, uh, hydrogen sulfide is a mitochondrial inhibitor.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Aah.
Dr. Tim Jackson: And, so it basically puts the body in a state of torpor, or energy conservation. So-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Great! Torker?
Dr. Tim Jackson: Torpor. T-O-R-P-O-R. So like-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, okay. Yeah.
Dr. Tim Jackson: Uh, yeah. And that was the way I was you know, described to me but uh, you know, you can lower body temperature-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Dr. Tim Jackson: -decreased energy production-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.
Dr. Tim Jackson: -cause major brain fog, uh, as far as the breath testing goes, it can be helpful but 25% of the time you get a false negative.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So you wanna do conventional stool- or you wanna do some more cutting stool testing to look for bacteria overgrowth?
Dr. Tim Jackson: That uhm- on the organic acids test, I think it’s 21 hydroxyphenyl acetate-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Dr. Tim Jackson: Uh that’s the marker that can be indicative of SIBO, uhm you know, if you see that, uhm, and-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Phenyl acetate is interesting ’cause that’s also an oxidative stress marker too.
Dr. Tim Jackson: Right. Right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting.
Dr. Tim Jackson: And uhm, yes, so, the uh, SIBO. If you had concentration for any period of time or extended period of time, the only way SIBO can develop is when there is a lack of peristalsis or decreased peristalsis-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.
Dr. Tim Jackson: -so you get a migration of the bacteria that belong in the large intestines, moving up to the small intestines which should be relatively sterile. And so uhm, you know, err- you wanna correct the large intestines, you wanna optimize stomach acid, uhm, bile production, digestive enzymes and uh, you know, you can use herbs or antibiotics to treat the SIBO, but if you don’t improve peristalsis, it’s just gonna keep coming back.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting. Now there are a lot of patients that are doing a lot of DNA testing these days for 23 of May, what are the big DNA Markers you would look at to say, hey there may be a mitochondrial issue, or even maybe an issue with detoxifying? What would you look at genetically, what are the top 3 or 5 things you would look at and highlight and say, “Hey this- this may lead you into faking there’s an issue”?
Dr. Tim Jackson: So GSTM, uh, for glutathione.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Tim Jackson: Uhm, you know, we can measure uh glutathione levels. Uhm, it’s best to measure the reduced-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Tim Jackson: -uhm to oxidize ratio ’cause some people can’t recycle glutathione. Uhm, but glutathio- any polymorphisms in the glutathione pathway, that’s gonna affect detoxification, uhm, and on mitochondria, uhm, and polymorphisms and the superoxide dismutase pathway. Uh, that’s gonna affect it, uh, polymorphism called endufs, uh N-D-U-F-S, uhm that affects uhm fatty acid transport-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Tim Jackson: -into mitochondria. Uhm there’s one called ACAT, A-C-A-T, and that can affect the conversion of protein, and fats into Acetyl-CoA, and so that’s a great limiting step in energy production.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Tim Jackson: And so, uhm Vitamin B1, uhm, can be helpful in facilitating uhm or bypassing that polymorphism in particular-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.
Dr. Tim Jackson: -uhm, and then there is one called SLC, there’s a whole family of them. SLC uh 16-A1, uhm and there are others uhm but it has- those also had to do with fatty acid transport, uhm and so, you know, that’s where you could look at uh blood or seer models of L-carnitine.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Would MTHFR fit into this or COMT fit into this at all?
Dr. Tim Jackson: Uh it would it in the sense that MTHFR affects the levels of CoQ10 and carnitine-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: [Crosstalk] lower levels so you gotta make sure those are higher?
Dr. Tim Jackson: Right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: COMT, how does that affecting things?
Dr. Tim Jackson: So COMT uhm basically uh it affects- so it can create uh elevated uh catecholamines, and that can create a stress response in the body, and uhm, you know, long term sympathetic dominant stress response will turn the mitochondria.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Can that also deplete dopamine too?
Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah. Uhm, and so, well what it does is, people with COMT, they don’t metabolize it as quickly depending on the exact COMT uhm, but dopamine, norepinephrine epinephrine tend to be higher, uhm, and usually norepinephrine epinephrine are more of an issue, uh, but yeah, it can uh for sure affect uh the mitochondria indirectly through that mechanism.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Great. So let’s re-summarize that, we have our COMT and our MTHFR, right? Now you mentioned the endoxin and the B- B1 importantly, with the MTHFR you me can- you mentioned the carnitine and the CoQ10-
Dr. Tim Jackson: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: With the COMT we’re working on what decreasing sympathetic stress, breathing, not over exercising, good- good food, is there anything you’d want or also highlight to help reduce COMT?
Dr. Tim Jackson: Uh, making sure that uh you check your estrogen levels-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay.
Dr. Tim Jackson: -uhm, and man, you know, checking estradiol, and women checking-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Tim Jackson: -E1, E2, and E3-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.
Dr. Tim Jackson: Uhm, and measuring that compared to progesterone, uhm, but that can uh, certainly affect uhm or be product of COMT.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Great. And then the other 3 again? The first 3 that you mentioned, I wanted- just make sure we have a good summary.
Dr. Tim Jackson: So the ACAT, A-C-A-T-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Tim Jackson: Uh, affects uhm the production of Acetyl-CoA which is the first step in the Krebs cycle-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Krebs cycle, yup.
Dr. Tim Jackson: -and so vitamin B1, thiamine can be used for that-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay.
Dr. Tim Jackson: Uhm, other polymorphisms like ___[33:03], uh FADS, uh those affect uh an SLC, affect the transportation of fatty acid into the mitochondria-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.
Dr. Tim Jackson: And so extra carnitine may be needed-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.
Dr. Tim Jackson: Uhm and then the polymorphisms that you know may interfere with protection of the mitochondria are GSTN or any polymorphisms in the glutathione pathway, along with uh SOD polymorphisms-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very good.
Dr. Tim Jackson: -and you know, to upregulate those, uhm we can use again molecular hydrogen, we can use uhm things like ___[33:42] glutathione or uh liposomal glutathione as well.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: If someone wants to learn more about interpreting these genetic tests, do you have a- a resource or reference that you like to go to?
Dr. Tim Jackson: I wish I had a comprehensive uh resource that I can tell you to go to that cover them all, uh unfortunately I don’t. Uhm I mean, there might be someone somewhere, you know there are new apps coming out all the time, and all they’re doing you know, it might save- this is oh, a neurotransmitter profile, this is a hormone profile, they’re just reporting those polymorphisms that affect that particular area of the body, it’s not a separate test.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it. Is there one source you could point us to?
Dr. Tim Jackson: Uhm, mthfrsupport.com, I helped them design their report, uhm I’ve done a- if you google my name Dr. Tim Jackson I’ve done a ton of articles, interviews, podcasts, summits on methylation MTHFR, uhm so that should be a lot of free content available if you google my name.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent. Dr. Tim if listeners wanna find more about you and wanna work with you, what’s your website? How can they reach out?
Dr. Tim Jackson: healyourbody.O-R-G, so healyourbody.org, or my email, I know it’s long, but it’s drtim- D-R-T-I-M-0-7-29-81, and you know-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh my God, we gotta shorten that up to like office.healyourbody.org or whatever [chuckles]-
Dr. Tim Jackson: I know.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We gotta shorten that up. Alright, we’ll put the links below so if you don’t- if you don’t recall and don’t remember Dr. Tim’s info, we’ll put it below so it’s a one-click option for you all. Dr. Tim, it’s been awesome. We had 2 other podcasts for Dr. Ji- Dr. Tim, so feel free and go back and review those podcasts, great uhm treasure trove of information. Dr. Tim, thank you so much for being a part of the podcast. And you have a phenomenal day.
Dr. Tim Jackson: Thank you Dr. Justin, you the same.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Thanks doc!
References:
SIBO, Yeast Overgrowth, Mood Issues & More – Podcast #169
Your gut affects your health in a variety of ways, and it’s not just about digestion. The health status of your gut can influence the immune system, your weight, and even your mood! In today’s part-podcast and part-Q&A video, let’s join Dr. Justin Marchegiani and Evan Brand as they talk about gut health and how it affects us as a whole.
Watch and listen as they discuss topics like Small Intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth (SIBO), yeast or fungal overgrowth, weight gain and weight loss, and even the link between your gut and your mood swings. So many people are diagnosed with SIBO, in fact, Dr. Justin says that almost 90% of his patients are suffering from this condition. Learn how to manage your gut health by taking the right supplements, eating the right foods, and preventing issues from wreaking havoc on your overall health. Watch this video for more info!
Dr. Justin Marchegiani
In this episode, we cover:
02:30 SIFO is Definitely an Issue
05:20 Conventional Treatment of Candida and SIBO
07:19 Urinary Tract Infection
10:00 Treating UTI by Just Hitting the Gut.
21:36 Top herbs for Candida Overgrowth
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Dr. J here in the house, with Evan Brand. We’re gonna do a live Q and A call. We may talk about some topics near and dear to us, what’s trending. And then if you guys want to come in on the side and ask any questions, feel free. We are here to serve. Evan, what’s cooking, man?
Evan Brand: Hey. Uh— not too much is cooking but I’m drinking some apple cider vinegar drink. Good old Bragg’s uh— with some cinnamons. So, that’s good. This is
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I know. Totally. Just that convenience aspect is really nice. I like the lime one. The lime one’s really good, too. IIt’s only sweetened with Stevia.
Evan Brand: Oh, that one doesn’t have sugar.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. That one’s a good one.
Evan Brand: Oh. Yeah. I didn’t know that…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it.
Evan Brand: existed.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow, man.
Evan Brand: Well, I did an interview uh—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Now you know.
Evan Brand: I did an interview this morning uh— with my— for my summit, and it was all about SIFO, so I figured maybe we could chat about
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I think, when we look at yeast, for instance. You know, we do a typical SIBO test, which looks at Methane and Hydrogen gases, which are— you know— You give a sugar s— solution via lactulose to the per— person, and that sugar’s indigestible to the body, except certain bacteria that are dysbiotic. And when those bacteria eat that lactulose solution, they spit off Methane of Hydrogen gases, depending on wha— what bacteria they are. And that Hydrogen can either disrupt and cause diarrhea or increase motility, or can cause decrease motility via Methane, so— Of course, we see it with various gases indirectly. We don’t know the exact bacteria, but we know that those gases are there
Evan Brand: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, SIFO’s definitely an issue.
Evan Brand: Yeah. So let’s— let’s go through symptoms a bit. What if somebody
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hundred percent. And a lot of people who have gut issues, right? They’re gonna have a lot of mood issues or energy issues too. It’s very rare that someone only has gut issues. Like, they could have diarrhea, bloating or gas, or indigestion, or GERD, or acid reflux, or gastroparesis with their food, just sits in your tummy for a long time. But it’s very possible that you could just have mood issues, uh— brain fog— With fungus, it’s common to have joint pain. It’s common to have brain fog. It’s even common to have anxiety too. Uhm— the yeast, kind of metabolic products in the gut, uhm— when they metabolize, they can spit off acetaldehyde. Acetaldehyde can then create a compound called salsolinol. Salsolinol can create apoptosis in the midbrain, where it— it can actually kill off some of the uhm— substantia nigra cells that produce dopamine— s, of course, you know, chronic yeast issues, severe yeast issues, but could potentially create more neurological issues due to all the toxic by-products.
Evan Brand: That’s a trip. Now, I know saccharomyces boulardii. We talked about it. We use it for the saccharomyces could do two things, maybe you colla— collaborate on this a bit for the saccharomyces as one, gonna help to crowd out the yeast, but can also kill the toxins that Candida’s producing. Can you speak on that? Do you know what I’m talking about?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I mean, yeast, Candida can also produce [stutters]— As a by-product, they’re gonna produce mycotoxins, right? And these toxic by-products can disrupt digestion. Uhm— they’re also— you know, acetaldehydes, a stressor that’s produced by the Candida that I mentioned earlier. And Candida’s one type of yeast. You know, they’r— you can have, you know, the Rhodotorula species that— that the cal— Candida albicans, as the Candida of everyone refers to. You have the Geotrichum candidum. You have uhm— these species as well. So, of
Evan Brand: Yep. Well said. So, let’s talk about treatment a bit. I mean, some of the options that we use, conventional docs. Maybe let’s chat about that first. I mean, we always go straight to the functional medicine piece and assume that people understand that. But I don’t think many people understand what and how poorly conventional medicine treats Candida and bacterial overgrowth type issues.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, most of the time, conventional medicine’s gonna, you know, typically laugh at your face when you talk about Candida. And unless you have— number one, you have some type of skin-oriented rash, like a tinea versicolor, some kind of seborrheic dermatitis. That’s apparent on the skin, right? It’s like, it’s there. You can see it. It’s apparent they’ll recommend some type of antifungal cream, and they won’t ever look deeper
Evan Brand: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Like the yellow kind of thickened discolored toenail. That’d be the— the fourth one. [crosstalk] Mouth, nose—
Evan Brand: What about on the fingers, too? I’ve seen people with like a ye— a yellow nail, where it’s like…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s the same.
Evan Brand: …falling off.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s the same thing, right? Toenail and fingernail is the same kind of thing.
Evan Brand: Yeah. Okay.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mp— that thickened type of fungal things we see on the nails, on the skin, Uhm— typically, on the mouth, and then typically, vaginal. And let’s say number five would be kind of like a uhm— seborrheic dermatitis, or like a cradle cap, or like
Evan Brand: Got it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …toe or finger.
Evan Brand: Yeah. So, let’s talk about UTIs for a bit. Now, when you hear about a Urinary Tract Infection, a lot of times, this is affecting women.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Typically— It depends. Typically, it’s gonna be bacteria. The— the number one way you can figure it out is typically bacterial vaginosis. We’ll have kind of a fishy odor to it. So, it’s gonna a little bit fishy, in women. No, it’s like— okay, it’s apparent something’s going on down there. Yeast
Evan Brand: Okay. And then [inaudible]—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Of course, you can get a culture. You can get a culture, right? You go see your doctor. They may do a culture, but in terms of treatment for bacterial vaginosis, we may do kind of an herbal formula, mixed with apple cider vinegar. And we make it like a douche applicator and flush that area out for a week or two. And then, we may throw some probiotics in, internally via the mouth and intervaginally to help shift the pH. Typically, getting more acidic pH makes it harder for that bacteria to grow. Obviously cutting out the refined sugar and the junk of your food, too. With yeast, similar thing. We have some Boric acid or suppositories that we’ll use. The help will also get the probiotics going. Cut out the refined sugar. And then for UTI stuff, we’ll typically use some Silver. We can use some D-Mannose powder. We can use Uva Ursi herbs. Uhm— we can do apple cider vinegar, lemon juice. These are all really good things that we can do to help acidify the p— acidify the urinary tract.
Evan Brand: So, let me ask you this. Could you successfully treat a UTI just by hitting the gut?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhm— you could. Uhm— again, like some of the things we’d want to do is to want to make sure we have some of those herbal metabolites make their way out the vaginal, you know. I mean, typically UTI it’s gonna go out, right? It’s gonna head some and go out, and so the urinary tract will be hit. The question is, “Will the vaginal area be hit.” Obviously, for peeing it out, it’s not gonna be hit. It’s close in that area, but more than likely it’s not gonna hit it. That’s where you need some kind of an herbal douche formula to topically get in there. Same thing with the yeast. So, yeast, you kind of want to top like in there with a suppository. BV get in there uhm— with a— a flushing type of herbal mechanism, and just make sure you’re not pregnant, right? ‘Cause the— there could be some abortifactant uhm— mechanism there if it’s getting too close— you know, up the vaginal canal. And then, uhm— number three is the UTI that we could do internally, and we could flush out that way.
Evan Brand: So, could you go— I mean are there like professional grade herbal douche blends, or is that something you’ve got to piece together yourselves? Like, does the store-bought version exist?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I have one that I use that works really well. It’s good to call herbal douche formula, and that we should choose an applicator when we mix— mix it with some apple cider vinegar, like the instruction’s say, and we flush one— one or two times a day. [crosstalk] I’ve got to shift the diet. I’ve got to shift the diet. Typically, it should do a— a really good probiotic intervaginally, as well, that kind of help shift the pH and shift the microbiome there.
Evan Brand: Is there a brand for that?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I like one by Wise Woman Herbals.
Evan Brand: Okay.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: [inaudible] … for the herbal douche formula, and then the probiotics will typically do, you know, my Probio Flora or will do a Woman’s formula. But typically, the Probio Flora is enough as well.
Evan Brand: Cool. Okay.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Probio Flora too is uhm— the Phage in there really helps kill uh— E.coli too. So, if it’s any UTI stuff going on too, that could also help with that too.
Evan Brand: I’m gonna bookmark that. That’s really really cool. And this— I feel like the douche is something good where if you’ve got like a resistant infection or something that just keeps coming back. Sounds like that would be a good thing to add in.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And then, typically though, even if we ever— let’s say, we do topically hit that area, we still want to make sure we systemically treat things too. Like, we would topically hit something ‘cause you want
Evan Brand: Right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Like, let’s say, there was a fungal nail, right? And maybe really hard to get rid of that fungus on that nail if we just hit it to the gut. So, we kind of want to hit it from both ends. So, we kind of
Evan Brand: So, do you add apple cider vinegar, too. That’s— I know it comes [crosstalk] west.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. We’d add it to it.
Evan Brand: Okay.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Make it says like add six ounces of apple cider vinegar or something. If you read the jo— instructions on how to mix it.
Evan Brand: ‘Cause like in ingredients, it says it’s in a base of ACV. So, I was just curious.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Can you read the in— Can you read the instructions?
Evan Brand: Yeah. It says, “Add one tablespoon of concentrate per six ounces of warm water.”
Dr. Justin Marchegiani
Evan Brand: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it. Yeah. So then it’s the warm water then. So, the apple cider vinegar’s already in it. SO, we will just add that to the warm water.
Evan Brand: That’s really cool, man. I learned something new
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s it.
Evan Brand: Wow. Well, thanks. [crosstalk] Let’s look at some questions and see what we’ve got here, digestively. Uh— Evie ask you a question, “Dr. J, I’ve been taking your Digestive Supreme and HCL. They’re helping a lot. Thanks. Is it okay to take for a long time or should I stop after some time?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, typically, if there was an infection, we want to get rid of the infection and then we can taper it down. And then, the rest is gonna be based upon you. So, if you’re under a lot of stress during the day, you know, then we may want to take it during
Evan Brand: And I— I— I’ll throw my two cents in.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.
Evan Brand: I cycle on and off enzymes, personally
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And I noticed myself. I was just having a— like uh— looser stools for the last few weeks only after coffee, and it was just— typically, was a different consistency. So, I just start on. I used to hit my GI Clear 4 and Para 1 up, and I noticed that it did start to solidify again even after coffee. So, I’m gonna be doing the GI Map Test at the end of this month…
Evan Brand: Good.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …and see what at.
Evan Brand: Well let’s go through your results when they come.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: It’d be a fun show.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I’m excited. Then also uhm— I saw your test last night. I saw the increased steatocrit on yours…
Evan Brand: I know.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …and the increased beta-glucuronidase. So, definitely hitting it with the antimicrobial herbal stuff, maybe adding in some extra bile salts or lipase in there too would also help.
Evan Brand: Yeah. I appreciate it. I’m gonna uh— I’m gonna do that, and then also, I’m gonna add in some milk thistle too. Try to get that glucuronidase down.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep.
Evan Brand: No probiotics can do it, but I think I rather probably do both.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, yeah. I mean, glucuronidase is gonna be— if you kill the bacteria, that— that will go down, too.
Evan Brand: Okay. That’s cool.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You can just throw in some extra charcoal to help bind that up too.
Evan Brand: Okay. Also, uhm— we’ll have to chat but uhm— where we’re getting our Para 1. There’s also a binder that they’ve got, which is like a Fulvic acid – Charcoal mix.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I’ve seen
Evan Brand: Yeah. And the charcoal’s so cheap.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s the thing. The charcoal’s just a little bit more cost-effective, that’s why I like it.
Evan Brand: Yeah. You can’t beat it. Okay, [crosstalk] cool.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And it’s still great. I mean, it’s still— you know, you can use it for alcohol— I had— my Patriot’s play yesterday, my Tom Brady. They’re just freaking awesome, man. He used to go— and— you know, he is just like the perfect— like practitioner spokesperson for natural medicine. I mean, what he does, what his diet, and he eats basically a Paleo Autoimmune Template for the most part. He’s trying to keep inflammation down.
Evan Brand: Yep.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And uh— you know, he trains in a way that to support pliability and muscle length, and then which we’ll have to uhm— try to get his trainer on, man. I got to get him on…
Evan Brand: Good.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …and speak to him. I know. We’re gonna work on that. But yeah, he’s a perfect practitioner of all these stuff. But uhm— in regards to—- where was I going? So, we just talked about?
Evan Brand: I think you were talking about—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, yes! I’m sorry. So, I had a nice glass or two of champagne yesterday.
Evan Brand: Oh.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, I hit up some activated charcoal, and I hit up some Sulfur amino acids, and I feel phenomenal. No issues. Then, of course, I have a nice glass of mineral water in between drinks that
Evan Brand: That’s cool. Uh— anybody uh— listening, watching, add your comments. We’re gonna go through these. We’ll try to answer as many that are on topic as we can. So, add your comments now. So, we’ll go through it now.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes. And we’ll hit the ones that are on topic— is— is first. And then also, give us a share, give us a like, give us a thumbs up. We appreciate it, guys. Help us grow so we can help more people like you. Your benefitting right now. Don’t keep it all to you. Let it get out there. We appreciate it.
Evan Brand: Absolutely. Uh— what’s our time on? How much time
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We— we got five minutes. Let’s roll for it.
Evan Brand: Okay. Alright. So, we’ve got one here from Jeff. Uh— he says that he’s been taking the GI Clear 1, 2 and 5. Two caps a week for H. pylori. Yesterday was his birthday. He’s been so sick; nausea, headaches, panic attacks. How should I take the herbs on an empty tummy?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, number one, I‘m imagining that because it was your birthday, you may have gone off the—
Evan Brand: Oh, oh.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …of the rings there, Jeff, maybe with some extra birthday type of uh— surprises or things like that. So, there could be that. Uh— number one, if we’re having some sensitivities, we need to come off the herb for three to five days, get back to
Evan Brand: Yep. Good advice. Now, the question here. Dr. J, I’ve been following your advice but not perfectly. I’ve had long term constipation, GERD, gastritis, H. pylori, bloating, abdominal distention, cramping. How can I help myself? I’ll answer this one.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.
Evan Brand: If you don’t mind.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You got it. Do it.
Evan Brand: Uh— You’ve got to get tested. I know you said, “I’ve been following…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmmn—
Evan Brand: “… meaning you’ve probably been watching Dr. J’s videos, maybe some of the stuff that we’re doing together like this. But if you’ve knocked out the testing done, then you’ve— you’ve got uh— you’ve got to do that. If you say H. pylori— if it’s still there, you’re gonna have these symptoms. So, you’ve got to get some functional medicine testing. You can reach out. Get that done. And, we’ve got to fix the bugs. You’re never gonna fix constipation if you’ve got bacterial overgrowth ‘cause those gases are gonna change the intestinal motility time. Bloating;
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: One hundred percent!
Evan Brand: Uh— let’s keep going here. We’ve got another [crosstalk] question from Kitty. Uh— She’s taking the beef protein powder. That makes her constipated so she
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I would say, you could try it, and see what happens. If it doesn’t work, there could be something in it that you’re allergic to so I would try a Collagen protein that’s in a peptide form and see if that shifts or changes it. ‘Cause that’s gonna be in a more broken down assimilated form. [crosstalk] So, try it. Try more enzymes and HCL, and see what happens first. And then try just a really clean— like— you know, my TRUCOLLAGEN. Try something in a collagen peptide form…
Evan Brand: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …and see if that fixes it. And then, let us know.
Evan Brand: Good advice. Another question, “Hi, Dr. J. I’d like to ask you uh— how to detox from heavy metals toxins, parasites, etc., naturally?” We’ve done a ton of shows on this. We’ll continue to probably hit this topic, but just searched justinhealth.com or search the YouTube channel here for those ti— uh— those titles, and you’re gonna find some stuff. But that— that could be an hours and hours and hours conversation.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. Yep. Absolutely.
Evan Brand: Samuel. Want to read that one?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. “Is it possible to overpopulate with good bacteria using probiotics? And if so, what steps do you take to balance?” So, number one, we can see it with patients that tend to have like digestive issues or SIBO. We see an excessive amount of D-lactate, which can be caused by throwing a whole bunch of Lactobacillus in with the whole bunch of dysbiotic bacteria. So, we can see that. So, number one, make sure we’re starting from a blank canvas, not a canvass full of messiness from the start. Uhm— number two, probiotics tend to be transient. They’re not gonna stay around longer than a month or so. So, they are transient. So— Number one, a good steady dose of them is gonna be fine. So, you know, two to four capsules I think is a reasonable amount, like with my Probio Flora. And I think, you know, some couple sources of fermented foods that you want to throw in a weekly, whether it’s a lower sugar Kombucha, fermented pickles, sauerkrauts, uhm— those are all good standard options that you can kind of add in. And, I think, as long as your digestive symptoms are under control and you’re infection-free, I would not worry about it. If you’re having a lot of blow or gas because of probiotics, you probably have to look a little deeper and see what’s happening with the dysbiosis or other infections.
Evan Brand: Yep. One more questions right next to that.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Top herbs for Candida overgrowth?
Evan Brand: Yep.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oil Oregano, Berberines, Silver, not really an herb but it’s still something that we use, uh— Clove, Wild Indigo, grapefruit seed extract; I would say those are a couple, right there. Anything you want to add?
Evan Brand: Yeah. I’d like to add olive—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Anything like a medicine?
Evan Brand: Yeah. Olive leaf.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Olive leaf, yep.
Evan Brand: Uhm— the monolaurin, the lauric acid…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Monolaurin, lauric acid, yep.
Evan Brand: Uh— I would also say— I mean, we’ve got so many formulas. I would just say to look at our— look at our GI formulas. Justin’s got several custom formulas I do as well. You could check our sites, justinhealth.com, evanbrand.com. We’ve got many. And these herbs in isolation can work— can work pretty good, but we’ve really like to focus on the synergistic effective herbs together.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. like, for instance, Berberines, and Artemisia. If you look at Stephen Buhner’s book, he talks about the synergistic effect that you have with those herbs together. So, like one and one equals ten, not two. So, combining some of these herbs, they have to work
Evan Brand: Yeah, uh— you want to hit Tammy’s question?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. “I got stomach pain when I take Proteolytic enzymes. What does that mean? I had H. pylori and stomach ulcers twice in the past. So, number one, I’d make sure you’re not taking the enzymes on an empty stomach. I’ll take them in the middle of the meal. Okay? Number two, I would just see that, you know, if you didn’t take the enzymes, would you also have stomach pain? Or is it— Is the enzymes the only variable factor? And if you have a lot of stomach ulcers and those kind of things, number one, we need a support and start adding some healing and soothing herbs. Potentially, lower the dose and make the food more liquid or predigested in kind of like a crock pot type of format. So, the food is easier to process. Nothing raw. Even if it’s like, raw broccoli or like raw Paleo veggies, that may still be too much. So, I would look at crock pot liquid form, healing-soothing herbs and amino acids. Kind of what’s in my GI Restore. Uhm— add every variable in one at a time so that way you know. You get the foods dialed in, right? You get, you know, the type of food and the cooking process dialed in. You add some soothing herbs. You do the enzymes. You start with the very low dose. You work it up. You isolate. You do one of each variable, one at a time. So, you know what’s going on.
Evan Brand: Yep. And I would like to add. Make sure that you’re infection-free. You said you had H. pylori and stomach ulcers twice in the past. Uh— gastroenterology is very very very uh— inaccurate. Some of their testing. You can have false…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: …negative [crosstalk]
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And again, here’s the deal, too. If you’re having issues potentially with food or enzymes, then you sure as heck gonna have issues with herbs to knock out the infection. So, work on the first three R’s first: removing the bad foods, replacing enzymes and acids to the right dosage, taken the right way, healing-soothing nutrients and adrenal support. So, adrenals, ginger tea, amino acids, healing-soothing herbs, and then, make the food really palatable so it’s easy to process.
Evan Brand: Uh— Great. Great advice. Angel, “Do you recommend
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think it’s great to help uhm— with the killing and binding effect that’s good at worms. Uh— I use it to kill ants in my backyard when I see them. Uh— Diatomaceous Earth has a high amount of Silica in it and it basically dehydrates the uhm— the exoskeleton of the— the insects. So, it’s a great non-toxic thing. You can also swallow it too so it can— it can dehydrate the worms, too, and kill them.
Evan Brand: That’s neat. Now,
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Everywhere, in the ether.
Evan Brand: Yeah, everywhere. Justin lives in Texas. I live in Kentucky. But, we are 100 percent via phone and Skype consults. That’s it. Uh— Riley, “ How long should you take the GI Restore 4 with probiotics after a parasite killing protocol?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh— typically, combination— typically, if we’re looking at it objectively ‘til calprotectin goes down, which is an inflammatory uh— protein that’s produced by the gut when there’s inflammation, and/or ‘til you’re infection-free. So, for infection-free, then we really want to see that calprotectin go down, and ideally, that correlates with symptoms and improving in the gut mucosa just becoming better and feeling better.
Evan Brand: I would say, generally, though, the given number— I tried to get people to run…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani:
Evan Brand: …[inaudible] models.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep. I think two to four months on average. I know Riley’s case in particular. You know, he’s had issues with H. pylori in the past. So, there could be just some— some thinning gastric mucosa, that’s just more sensitive, and we just need to make sure that infections crossed off our list. And then start the timer, you know, two to four months from when that infection is gone.
Evan Brand: Okay.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Kind of thing—
Evan Brand: That’s good. That’s good. Uh— Addy asks, “ Do we recommend Grapeseed extract for Candida?” Yes. We use it [crosstalk] in our formulas. It can help.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely.
Evan Brand: Uhm— uh— another question here. “Thoughts on prebiotics supplements?” I think it’s our last question uh— that we have time for. “Do we need prebiotics if we have lots of vegetables in the diet?”
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think you can throw in some resistant starch either some unripened banana flour or a little bit of
Evan Brand: Oh, good. Good. Good. Good. Glad you got a video there. Well, that’s all we got time for, question-wise. I think we hit most of them, though. Unless there were some off-topic. But, we hope this was helpful. Make sure you guys hit Subscribe if you’re not subscribed to the channel. Go ahead. Hit subscribe right
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hit the bell!
Evan Brand: …we’re back [inaudible]…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Everyone’s like, “Hey, Dr. J, like when are you gonna be live?” So, we’re gonna try to let you know a day ahead of time. But if you hit the bell, It’s gonna pop-up on your YouTube app, on your computer or phone. It’s gonna say, “Dr. J and Evan are live.” And then, you’re gonna know.
Evan Brand: Generally speaking though, you guys should expect us here every Monday at anywhere between 11:30 and 12:00 Eastern.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. That’s the general kind of gist and I’ll be online typically 9:30 to 10:00 CST, which is 10:30 to 11:00 EST on Fridays, for our FAQ for you all.
Evan Brand: So, s— you know, go ahead and stalk us here. Subscribe, hit the bell and we’ll be back for more content very soon. If you have…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, one last question here.
Evan Brand: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: One last question. “Can you overdo with herbs?” Yeah, you can, Charlotte. So, just make sure if you’re— people
Evan Brand: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: They have issues with Vitamin C and issue with probiotics or issues with HCL, and it’s like— these are patients like we got to take our kid gloves and put them on ‘cause we got to go. Everything has to be very slow and very gentle. And it’s not that you’re— you’re weak or have— you know— It’s not anything— It’s not a negative on you. It’s just your system, where it’s at. So, if we go a little bit slower, it helps. It’s kind of like, you want to take a cold shower, get in the shower. Get it on warm and then just inch the dial a little bit co— you know, to the cold direction. And then, before you know it, in three to five minutes, you’re in a cold shower. And it wasn’t that difficult. So, if we have to, we can go slow. Of course, working on ginger tea and soothing nutrients to get the gut lining more
Evan Brand: Oh, I’m gonna advise, two cents…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.
Evan Brand: …because you made some word adrenal. Yeah. If your adrenals are weak,
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And it’s human nature. Once people find out they have a critter in them, they’re like, “Get rid of it! Oh, my gosh! This is awful.” And I— I get it. So, normal reaction, but we have to make sure the bigger picture is we don’t
Evan Brand: Yeah. For sure.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay. Awesome. Well, great call. Slam that bell. Give us a share. We appreciate everyone watching. And hope everyone’s health takes one notch in the right direction today. [crosstalk] Appreciate it all.
Evan Brand: Take care.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Bye, Evan.
Evan Brand: Bye.
References:
Wise Woman Herbals herbal douche products at http://www.wisewomanherbals.com/
TRUCOLLAGEN https://justinhealth.com/products/trucollagen/
Probio FLora at https://justinhealth.com/products/probio-flora/
Just in Health at www.justinhealth.com