Functional Medicine Steps to Reversing Depression and Mood Disorders | Podcast #382

In this video, Dr. Justin and Evan talk about depression. Depression is a common mental disorder characterized by persistent sadness and hopelessness. Treatment options include anti-depressant medication and mental health practices such as therapy. Recent research suggests that factors such as amino acids and gut health may also play a role in the development of depression.

Another approach to treating depression and mood disorders is Functional Medicine, which focuses on identifying and addressing the condition’s underlying causes. This approach may include addressing nutrient deficiencies, addressing gut health issues, and identifying and addressing any underlying chronic health conditions contributing to depression or mood disorders.


Dr. Justin Marchegiani

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

In this episode, we cover:

00:26 – Depression
03:12 – Amino Acids
10:14 – Gut
28:17 – Key Takeaways

Dr. Marchegiani: Hey guys it’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani, today we are here with Evan Brand. Excited to have a nice conversation with you, man! How’s it been? It’s been a little bit! What’s cooking, brother?

Evan Brand: Yeah, not too much is cooking. I figured that over the weekend, I was looking at statistics, and I thought, okay I wonder if things have changed since a year ago or five years ago, or 10 years ago when I really got interested in the topic of depression.

Turns out nope nothing’s changed, depression is still the number one leading cause of disability in the United States. That’s shocking! and…

Dr. Marchegiani: Isn’t that crazy?

Evan Brand: This affects everything! This affects your marriage, the way you treat your kids, the way you treat your co-workers if you’re an employer, the way that you’re treating everyone. And so our job today would be to provide Solutions and maybe some testing strategies that someone who’s suffering from depression or other mood issues. What could they do at home from the functional medicine perspective, and how could you actually reverse it? Is it actually possible to reverse it?

And I would say yes, it is because we see it all the time and I’ve suffered tremendously but I’ve made massive strides in my mood over the years by slowly and systematically fixing little pieces of things that have been wrong with me from parasites and gut infections and mold and lyme and tick-borne issues, all of these add up it’s not just “Oh he’s in a bad mood!”, There are literally underlying causes you can fix so let me just jump into that first and say that from the Psychiatry model of depression, let’s talk, what about your childhood?

Well, what’s your relationship and how do you feel, and how does that make you feel? And it generally stops there. Maybe there’s a prescription given but they don’t ask “Hey when’s the last time your basement flooded?”, “Oh, I saw you had mold growing around your window trim let’s talk about that.” They don’t go into that. They don’t go into your environment, or how your environment may be contributing to it from a biochemical biotoxin perspective and that’s a huge missing piece of the mental health puzzle.

Dr. Marchegiani: Oh I agree! I mean, you know, there’s a study that just came out last year we talked about it, I think, in a previous podcast that looked at antidepressants, and they’re essentially not being effective right? And kind of that whole Serotonin model as being kind of an antiquated model. Right, so a lot of these older medications, they block these reuptake ports where Serotonin would come back into that presynaptic neuron and essentially go back into the neuron and be used up again.

And so essentially, that model of causing the Serotonin to accumulate in between the synapses, so we have a neuron, that’s the presynaptic neuron, this is the postsynaptic neuron, Serotonin would hang out in this area called the Synaptic Cleft. And essentially, the Serotonin will then go back up into the presynaptic neuron, and the medications would block that, it would block that port, so then it would accumulate more in the Synaptic Cleft. And so they’re kind of saying this model is kind of more antiquated. It’s not quite necessary that’s what’s happening.

And that’s interesting because this is the kind of drugs that have been talked about and used in this area, and this mechanism for, you know, 20 to 30 years and so, there’s also some nutrients that you use that are similar. We talk about, kind of 5- HTP, and some of the cofactor nutrients that we use on the amino acid side may plug into that model or maybe it’ll be a little bit different than that. Can we kind of talk a little bit more about the amino acids?

Evan Brand: Yeah, well, first what we do is we look at the urine. And you can measure the metabolites of your neurotransmitter, so Dopamine, Serotonin, Endorphin, you can measure these metabolites. Think of it, the analogy I’ve been using lately is to prove that there was a bonfire, you look for the ashes. So we kind of look at those ashes, and we’re like okay, look at the evidence here, there was a fire burning, so we measure the urine in the same way where we look at these breakdown products of those brain chemicals, and we can infer what the level of brain chemistry may look like.

And we often see low Serotonin in people that are anxious, depressed, irritable, they have trouble sleeping, and so we will plug into that amino acid pathway with things like Tryptophan, or Five Hydroxytryptophan, we’ll combine that with B6 which is a necessary cofactor for Serotonin and then for Melatonin and people feel better. So I think it’s crazy to think about how many hundreds of millions of dollars and hundreds and millions of prescriptions were given out if truly those drugs don’t work! I mean are people going to go ask for a refund now? I mean that’s crazy!

Dr. Marchegiani: I know, right

Evan Brand: Like, what a disappointment really that model was the model, and what we’re seeing is totally the opposite. We’re seeing massive success with amino acids you and I’ve talked about free-form amino acids, these certain blends where if there’s low Serotonin and low Dopamine, we may sprinkle some Tyrosine in there, or DL-Phenylalanine and these people can make a recovery within just a few weeks.

We’re talking if you’re on a scale of one to ten, your depression is a 10-max like you don’t want to live. You could knock that down by half, I’d say, in as little as a month if you’re doing all the right steps.

Dr. Marchegiani: Yeah, I think part of the reason why we see clinical benefit using some of these amino acids or nutrients, so number one, the medications are working differently. They’re not actually adding building blocks, they’re blocking the reuptake of that. The problem with when you block the reuptake of these neurochemicals into the presynaptic neuron is you increase the recycling, right?

It’s kind of like these neurotransmitters go back into that synaptic neuron to kind of hide out from the cold or from the harsh weather, if you will because the longer they’re outside the more they get depleted and so the whole goal of these medications is they block that reuptake but then they end up depleting and impacting a lot of the Serotonin long term. That’s part of the reason why doses have to be increased over time. So there is that mechanism that’s part of the reason why we see side effects with these drugs.

Number two is we’re actually adding building blocks, and we’re also adding the important cofactors that are needed for synthesis. B6 needed for synthesis, we’re providing the amino acids. Also, we never see a patient that has mood issues and we just say “Hey, here’s B6 and 5HCP.” We’re making changes with their diets. We’re reducing inflammation, we’re managing Dysglycemia that means preventing these high and low blood sugar swings.

We’re maximizing protein, we’re making sure we’re breaking down our protein, we’re making sure the fats are good that’s important because every single cell in your body has a healthy lipid bilayer and these lipids if they’re rancid, junky, Omega-6 processed vegetable oils that have been oxidized, that’s going to create stress within your cells and so if we’re using good healthy fats that are Omega-3, fish oil, good healthy saturated fats from pasture-fed eggs, grass-fed meats, you know, wild game organ meats or grass-fed butter or tallow.

These fats are going to make healthier cell membranes, less oxidative stress, and so we’re fixing the Glycemia, we’re fixing the nutrient density, we’re fixing the healthy fats, we’re fixing the digestion, we’re adding in cofactors and so then when we add in different amino acids whether it’s 5-HTP, Tyrosine, different cofactors, Calcium, B6, Folate, B12, these are important cofactors as well so we’re never just giving one nutrient in isolation.

Another problem with a lot of the studies, they’re going to be like “Hey this amino acid without making any changes in this person’s health, didn’t really create that therapeutic effect.” And we’re like “Yeah, well, we never would just do that anyway.” So that may be true that’s why science and functional medicine is hard because science wants to deduce all the variables and just do one thing at a time but we just control 20 different variables right there by getting their diet right, they’re water right, their sleep right, their supplements right, their environment-mold right.

So you know all these things that’s like 20 variables, and so that’s kind of where medicine and functional medicine have a hard time because there’s too many variables that can’t be isolated when we see patients.

Evan Brand: Yeah it’s really not fair too because you’ll see this one headline, this amino acid or natural medicine for depression is BS, it’s snake oil, it’s pseudoscience it’s like okay, well, take Johnny, who loves his wife, loves his kids go for a hike every morning, gets plenty of sunshine, clean house, eats great, no gluten, no Dairy, and he takes it and he does amazing and then you have Betty over here she starts her morning with donuts and she watches negative news, and she sits in the dark she gets no natural bright light in the morning and she takes it and she hates her life, and she hates her kids, and she’s divorced and lonely and smokes a pack of cigarettes and she takes the 5-HTP and it doesn’t work and therefore it’s BS.

So yeah, I agree with you it is hard because what we’re doing is 20 to 30 variables all at once and then we’re not even addressing the part that we talk about too, which is trying to get the Limbic System dialed in because if you’ve been stuck in a chronic state of fight or flight because of your depression, you want to get out of this hole, you feel trapped in this home, you’re trapped in this job, I mean this could be a three-hour mega podcast but the long story short of it is all these other variables those change, how your brain processes, stress, fear, and that all can lead to more depression too. So we’re always trying to implement some sort of mental health practice.

I love doing meditations. It used to sound crazy to me. I used to hate to sit there for five minutes and be quiet but now I look forward to it. Now I’m like “Oh! I’m turning back into the real me!”, versus this busy version of me is different so I think you have to be miserable enough to listen to us when I say and I know that our friend and Mentor Kayla has said this for years something like if you don’t have an hour to meditate you need two and I was guilty of that because I was like I’m too busy. I’m too busy to slow down, I’m too busy to relax and think and now I’m like no I need that time so that I am clear-headed and not depressed during the day because I’m less overwhelmed because I’m more clear-headed.

Dr. Marchegiani: Yes, so when we talk about a lot of things here different factors, just take it with a grain of salt you can find studies you can find people that have had benefits or not, the issue is we’re not going to ever just take and do one variable at a time. There’s going to be a lot of things, and the more leverage you move and the more you set that foundation of health up, the more a supplement or a nutrient or an herb or a Botanical or a hormone could potentially provide a therapeutic effect even though data out there isn’t supported because we’re setting a foundation and moving a lot more variables than these studies are. It’s important to note.

Evan Brand: Yeah, we hit the organic acid test also, if you are having mood issues at all. You need to look into your gut as you and I know there’s a huge correlation between gut infections and mood disorders, whether that’s anxiety, bipolar, depression even panic attacks, this could be coming from the toxins released by the overgrowth of the microbes in your gut so to me a stool test would be a critical component of a mental health workup.

Dr. Marchegiani: Yeah, so in general that’s super important because 80%, 90% of all the neurotransmitters come from the gut now. Some of the data says hey these neurotransmitters don’t cross the blood-brain barrier but either way the amino acids that we take in those do have to get through the gut into the bloodstream and then those would then either get converted in the gut or go past the blood-brain barrier the astrocytes in the brain and they would get converted in the brain so the whole idea of like 5-HTP is those can actually cross the blood-brain barrier and go to the brain but we need to have good health, good healthy gut function to be able to break down and absorb these things and then also the newer model of depression looks at the brain’s inflammation.

They’re saying, hey a lot of the inflammation in the brain could be what’s causing problems. The problem is we know a lot of conventional medicine’s way of addressing inflammation tends to have side effects. We know NSAIDs kill about 20 000 people a year with gut and liver issues. We know Vioxx from the early 2000s killed 60 000 people with strokes and cardiovascular issues. So when you start to inhibit and stop these uh Cyclooxygenase the Cox Pathways. Cox-1, Cox-2, Cox-3 they can have impacts on reducing inflammation but those enzymes are also really important for rebuilding other tissues so you’re kind of robbing Peter to pay Paul.

And so conventional medicine, they have a lot of tools that may have a lot of side effects and so we know this new model of brain inflammation and mood is real and I think that’s why we can move the needle so much when we fix the gut because so much of the inflammation is in the gut. Whether it’s from food dysbiosis, endotoxin from bacteria, mycotoxin from fungus, or colonized yeast or mold, H. Pylori, parasites, just not breaking down foods and having larger food molecules of of dairy, Casein, wheat right grains and so all of this inflammation in the gut can be easily driving inflammation in the brain.

Evan Brand: Do you think you can eat your way out of this because that’s a common thing that just spreads on social media like wildfire is this idea like if you just get your diet perfect, all your problems go away and I already have my answer but I want to hear it from you because 90 plus percent of people that come to us are already doing something to improve their diet and they still have these issues.

Dr. Marchegiani: The more chronic the problem is no because I give an example of a patient, right? If you’re driving down the street and you get a flat tire right and now your car is not driving well, if I change that flat tire that day, do all my problems with my car go away? Yes because it just happened that day. But if I were to drive around on that flat tire for years and then be like well the root cause was that flat tire if I just change the flat tire I’m addressing the root cause the car should go back to normal like it drove three years ago well now you have collateral damage because you drove the car now aligned for years now the front end, the axle the suspension the shocks, the steering, everything’s jacked up and so just because you fixed the underlying root cause collateral damage happen in other places in the body.

And so then now you have to come in there and fix all the other collateral damages that occurred.

Evan Brand: Yeah that’s a great analogy. I mean the sound bite makes it difficult for us because then we have to explain that to people because people say oh well I heard from so and so if I just eat this, if I do kefir, if I do grass-fed Meats I’ll just be fine. That’ll fix my SIBO, that’ll fix my infections, that’ll fix my health issues and if you could eat your way out of this, if everyone could eat their way out of this then you and I wouldn’t be having this conversation right now.

Dr. Marchegiani: Yeah and a good history is really what tells you because usually with a good history, you can kind of see where the first shoe to fall was right. you’re like going to the person’s history their diet was good their lifestyle was good they had a mold issue in their basement because of a flood that wasn’t addressed and it’s like oh okay that screams to me this is an environmental thing or you can go back and see there was emotional stress and then there was some diet issues and then antibiotics you’re like okay.

So the history kind of can tell you you know how things started to unfold just like if I told you my history about my car and I told you three years ago I got a flat tire, you could say Okay, I see how that kind of unfolded. So this is where a good history you know really makes a lot of sense and then you want to also go into it not thinking it’s just one thing. It’s just the mold, It’s just you’re the gluten, it’s like no no. So when you have people that are like just dietitians, the problem is all they have is food. So all they’re looking at is food as being the underlying issue and that’s the problem.

You have to have a broader tool belt because then you’re like okay, food definitely is blood sugar, definitely is. But then other things could be as well and you want to combine everything.

Evan Brand: It may be a little harder for us to explain that and we’ve done this for a decade plus now which is that we have to be generalists and specialists at the same time like if you go to just the diet guru he’s going to convince you everything that you do diet wise is going to fix all of your problems and then you and I go wait a second you take 20 depressed people that come to us there’s going to be 20 different clinical outcomes and 20 different clinical protocols for this people here.

Dr. Marchegiani: And diets too!

Evan Brand: It could be this lady here, it was the death of her husband, it was an illness, it was moving out, it was Trauma from her children and it was mold exposure and dysbiosis and she was on XYZ medication versus over here lady just had thyroid issues. Okay easy fix that depression, this lady here gut infections, fixed that, that depression is gone. So the problem with the mental health space is it’s like okay depression and everyone thinks they have the same flavor of depression. You can have 20 different flavors or 20 different little small rivers that all end up at the same symptom depression but not everyone is getting there the same way the same path.

Dr. Marchegiani: Bingo! 100 percent! And even with diets right, I see some patients and they’re super sensitive to vegetables. They can’t even handle vegetables; some have to be on an elemental or even a carnivore diet. Some are just okay with the Paleo template, some need some level of variation between an autoimmune or an SCD or low oxalate or so there’s always a different variation depending on what’s going on.

So food always is important, so when we look at food, we’re looking at nutrient density, anti-inflammatory, low Toxin and we’ve got to make sure that you can break the foods down that’s super important and then the next part on top of food is that we don’t have enzymes acids in bile support, dial then and you can’t break that food down that food’s going to be a stressor inside of your body. And then, of course, all those nutrients to run our brain chemicals and pathways have to come from that food so if we don’t break them down and absorb it then that’s a problem too.

Evan Brand: So let’s make that visual for people so this is a 52-year-old woman, she’s had digestive issues for 20 years and she has depression. She was told if she does go autoimmune or she does go animal-based, she’s going to be fine. She does it, now she has diarrhea, she doesn’t know what to do, she’s confused. How do we approach that and break that down?

Dr. Marchegiani: Yeah, so I mean, the first thing is we have to look at her gut because even a healthy diet and healthy enzymes and acids there could be infections and stuff inside the intestinal tract that could be creating stress and inflammation so we’re going to work on the enzymes, we’re going to work on the acids, we’re going to make sure she’s breaking down her fats, we’re going to make sure the food is dialed into to whatever degree we think we need to based on how severe the issues are and then we’re going to be testing, we’re going to be looking at what’s going on with her microbiome and her and dysbiotic bacteria and yeast and bacteria and potentially colonized mold. This colonized mold from the living arrangement for where you live could be impacting things as well so we’ve got to look at everything.

Evan Brand: Yep, Candida could be in the puzzle too so people blame the food and they’ll say oh well I don’t feel good with meat like I’ve tried that I don’t feel good I’ve tried to increase fats I don’t feel good and then they may give up and we’re like okay it’s not the food that’s the problem it’s everything else that’s in your bucket that’s making that a problem. You should tolerate this, you should feel fine with it, it’s just a matter of getting your nervous system calmed down.

Someone in the comments has a vagus nerve yeah I mean your nervous system is a piece of it, we were talking about the limbic system. You know if you’re stuck in fight or flight all the time that you know that’s going to impair your ability to digest your food I mean how many times have you been in an argument at the dinner table you get done with the meal and you don’t even remember you’re still hungry. You’re like did I even eat? Like that’s what we’re talking about here.

Dr. Marchegiani: Yeah, when you’re activating your amygdala and or your limbic system, this is kind of your fight or flight response, that’s going to go up the vagus nerve or your parasympathetics go down it’s not a seesaw. So as the limbic, amygdala, brain stem right that’s the back part of the brain these are all primordial reflexes for fight or flight and survival okay. So very very important and the problem with that is if this is over activated the parasympathetics which are really that’s the vagus nerve, that’s this whole entire nerve cascade that helps with rest digest, activates the frontal cortex so you can make decision making, you can see the outcome of poor decisions and actions and then you can stop acting in a bad way right.

Most crimes and people doing bad things it’s because they’re thinking from their amygdala brain stem and not their frontal cortex, and so the more stressed you are that can create problems. I also saw, I read an article one time where a lot of things like road rage and like serious crime done like impulsively, was done from people that were hypoglycemic, so very low blood sugar. Because the low blood sugar kind of creates a stress response, and that activates the frontal cortex I mean, everyone can have that response of like dealing with their spouse and they haven’t eaten all day, and they’re just like, “Oh my God! I just need to eat like I’m just, I’m angry!” right.

So things like nutrition and blood sugar could easily impact that kind of brainstem response now outside of that there are different programs and things you can do, like you mentioned earlier in meditation or there’s different programs like DNRS or the Gupta program or NLP or EFT or EMDR. These are different programs that help get at the subconscious, limbic system, brain stem response kind of calm down which then brings up the parasympathetics and brings up the vagus nerve.

Evan Brand: Yeah and this was a critical step for me I mean I didn’t realize I was stuck in fight or flight until I downshifted from it and then I’m like, “Oh wait a second, man I was running running running like a little rat on a wheel”, and then finally I kind of snapped out of it, and I was almost running on autopilot I’m like wait a second I need to be more conscious with what I’m doing my actions and all of that.

So sometimes you have to say no to be able to say yes and what I mean by that is if you’re a people pleaser, you may end up as a depressed, anxious person because you’re constantly trying to satisfy everyone’s needs. This could be for your children or your spouse or whoever. If you’re a people pleaser we find this a lot. Those people are the ones that end up more burnt out, more anxious, more depressed, whether it’s a caretaker role as any sick family member or a sick parent or aging parent or just trying to please people in society.

So it’s okay to say no if you’re too booked up, if you’re too tapped out, you can say no to someone. Get your mind right, sit down, get your functional medicine labs done, get your work up done, so you can see what you’re up against. When you’re so stuck in fight or flight, you’re dealing with blood sugar crises, you’ve got toxins, you’re worried about your house, you got to get the plumber over to fix the leak, you got to separate from all that if you need to go sit out on the front porch and watch the birds fly for a minute to get your mind right that’s what I would do.

Dr. Marchegiani: Yeah you kind of mentioned the people pleasers. I grew up with some of those and it’s interesting right? Because you think people pleasing comes from a place of like, you know this is good, I want to help all these people around me. The problem is there’s also on the other side of the people-pleasing spectrum is a lot of resentment, because people pleasers will do a lot for this person XYZ, family, friends, kids, etc.

But then there’s this unspoken kind of goal or agreement that they’re kind of making that person is also going to make them a priority at some point and help them and if they don’t, it’s totally unspoken, this is where the resentment comes in. “Hey, you didn’t do this for me but I did this for you.” It’s like “Well, wait a minute. I didn’t realize I had to pay you back on that. I didn’t realize that was something I had to like to be indebted to you. I thought you were just doing that out of kindness.”

So it’s really important that you know, one, that you make yourself a priority that’s important because only you know what you need. Only you know the rest you need, the self-care you need, the things that you love, the hobbies, the time that you need right? Only you can put food in your mouth and get to bed on time. I can’t ever force you to do that.

And then you’re kind coming from a place of abundance where your cup is filling over and then, the spilling over is what you give away to friends and family and obviously, this is different if you have young kids right because they can’t take care of themselves but as kids get older and family gets older right it’s kind of more of that cup running over and that’s a much better mindset than having a low cup where you just give away and then your cup super low to begin with.

So just kind of make sure that you’re making deposits into yourself and then using the abundance to help others around you after the fact.

Evan Brand: Yeah and this could be something simple, this doesn’t necessarily have to be a supplement, this could be you taking a hot bath, you could be scheduling a massage, you’d just leave the house, go take a little drive, if you got to get away hopefully your spouse is supportive. If you say “Hey, gotta get my mind right. Gotta reset, go for a drive honey.” Perfect! These are the small steps that allow us to think clearly about our next action step but if you haven’t looked at your underlying issues, it’s time to look.

If you’ve done the diet, you’ve done the lifestyle, get the data because if you’re not testing, you’re guessing.

Dr. Marchegiani: Yep and anyone that has young kids, you have three kids, I have two young kids. We know kids, their needs are insatiable and they will never fully be satiated where like, you go do this activity, you do this, you give them this treat, you have this meal, you have this experience, the kids will never say “Mom and Dad thank you so much for this great day. You go take care of you now.” That never happened, it’s like “Now we’re on to this! And now we’re on to that!” right? There will never be that closure of like, “Great job Dad, thanks!” It’s like “Now what’s next? Now what’s next? Now what’s next?”

So you have to have that like all right, “Now it’s Mom and Dad’s time.” We’re gonna get a sitter, we’re gonna have a date night, we’re gonna have, I’m gonna schedule a time to go for a drive or go for a walk or meditate or exercise right so you have to kind of have that boundary within yourself and know that no one’s gonna just probably pat you on the back and say “All right, you go do you now,” probably not going to happen.

Evan Brand: Yeah and that’s not really a sexy advertisement that’s going to come from the media or anywhere else. There are benefits to society being caught up in this Loop and when you can step back from that it really helps change your perspective and even just that perspective change alone can help improve your mood so this topic is all about depression but as you see there’s a million different little spider webs. Yeah little inputs here and I think this is a totally reversible condition, yes there are genetics involved, yes there are environmental pieces, biochemical pieces, nutrition, lifestyle, digestive, all of it adds up but you really have to just plug and fix each little hole in this happiness bucket.

If you think you’re happy I think of it almost visually this bucket of happiness, default that’s what it is like my baby she’s default happy but as you age you get inflamed, you get infections, you get nutrient deficiencies because the soil’s depleted. Even if you eat an organic orange, you gotta eat 20 of them to equal the orange of 1920’s,

Dr. Marchegiani: Exactly

Evan Brand: Well, that’s a hole in the bucket. And then it’s, you’re overworked, okay that’s a hole in the bucket. This is why tribal societies, you ask them, they rarely have a word for depression because all the inputs they’re getting are keeping that happiness bucket full or set another way, they don’t have as many holes in their bucket that we in the modern world do so try to plug those holes, fill that bucket and you can totally reverse from this to where your life is something you look forward to, rather than you dreading your life and wishing it away.

Dr. Marchegiani: I love it! I love it! And so outside of that, if you have like previous trauma, whether it’s sexual abuse or issue with marriage or kids, get the support you need on the counseling side, behavioral therapy or if it’s like some kind of a subconscious trauma that’s there from the past, you know, EFT, EMDR, NLP, these are techniques that really work on that kind of subconscious stress, just make sure you have support for that if that is a thing or not and then everything else that we’re going to recommend is going to be customized because I could have a patient with really really high cortisol and all these nutrient deficiencies, we got to get that cortisol in check because that’s going to be causing limbic system problems.

And if I see these neurotransmitters off or important cofactors like Folate, B12, and B6 off, that could be a bigger deal for someone that maybe have normal markers for that. And so a lot of the rec like, these are things that could be wrong, but then we like to have that individualized approach so we’re not guessing, we’re assessing. So this is where we’re going to do organic acids and nutrient tests, this is where we’re going to look at the hormones so what we’re going to look at blood sugar and diet.

Just causing dysglycemia issues can cause massive problems so you can go get like a Freestyle Libre Three, put it on your shoulder, connect it to your phone, and test your blood sugar for two weeks, see how you do, see how you feel, monitor that, creating awareness, check, track your sleep, track your HRV, see how you’re doing in regards to your recovery and your parasympathetic response. These are some cool kinds of devices that you can do to kind of monitor and bring awareness to what’s happening.

Evan Brand: Yeah absolutely and I would say for someone that is on the verge of giving up and they have no hope, have hope, just reach out to someone, talk to someone. If you are obviously suicidal, you know call The Suicide Hotline. Don’t kill yourself over this, it’s not worth it. There’s too many people ending their lives that they could have been fixed. I mean just a famous recent case of suicide was, it was the either president or there was someone high up in Texas Roadhouse. It was a, there’s a restaurant chain that was headquartered in Kentucky where I’m from, and the guy, post virus, had tinnitus, and of course he got depressed from that and ended his life.

It’s like, well, there’s a million things we could do to help with tinnitus, like if he could have had a functional workup, he might have been able to fix that and would have ended his life. So there’s so many different situations that lead to someone doing that but I’ve even had clients where in the beginning they feel like they’re at the end of the rope and by the end, they think, “Why did I ever think that?” “I’m totally out of that mindset now.”

Dr. Marchegiani: Yeah, the last thing you want is a permanent solution to a temporary problem, right, that’s what suicide is. It’s a permanent solution to a temporary problem. We gotta have that solution-based mindset, okay? And again, the healthier you are, the more adaptable to stress you become, right, the more you’re going to think with that frontal cortex, the more you’re going to be able to problem-solve and get to the root.

So I think we have some good things here, that we kind of laid out. Again a lot of this will be individualized again if you guys want to dive in deeper, head over to Evan has research and resources for y’all, sees patients worldwide, and you also can head over to as well. We do functional medicine support worldwide, so you can reach out to either of us. We’ll put some links down below of different supplements that we like, different labs that we, like highly recommend work with a practitioner so you can have a guided approach. 

Again it’s not just if I gave you a recipe right and I said, hey these things are, this is what you need for the recipe, but I didn’t give you the right order, and I didn’t customize it for you you’re gonna have a bunch of slop because if you put the eggs in after you baked it right it’s just not going to taste good and so the order of operations and that customization approach is so important that’s how we get patients better so just kind of FYI on that. Anything else Evan you want to leave a listen with?

Evan Brand: Yeah, I appreciate the website and we are some of the best guys out there. We don’t say that just to toot our own horns, we say it because we’ve been through our own struggles, and we’ve helped thousands of people worldwide.

I’ve confirmed with the labs that we work with that we are in the top 10 worldwide of practitioners running the most labs, and from that, we see a ton of data, and with that data, we can help people the average person has been to 5, 10, or even 15 different practitioners specialist, other functional medicine people, naturopaths, conventional doctors, neurologists, cardiologists, and then somehow they wind up with us, and we give them good results so if you do decide to work with us we’re going to take great care of you, as he mentioned, Dr. J at that’s or me Evan Brand at

We’re happy to be there for you guys, and we’re always willing to look someplace that someone else hasn’t looked at, that’s why we don’t give up. We’re just ruthless for the pursuit of health and happiness, so thank you all, and take good care.

Dr. Marchegiani: Excellent! If you guys found value in this, please give us a share with friends or family, write us a review, put a comment, give us that five star on iTunes we really appreciate it. Thanks, guys! Have an awesome day!


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Collagen & Inflammation Reduction, Sunlight, Epigenetic & Anti-aging Strategies – Dr. Bernd Friedlander | Podcast #377

Collagen supplements are associated with several health benefits and very few known risks. It may increase muscle mass, prevent bone loss, relieve joint pain, and improve skin health by reducing wrinkles and dryness. And since your body naturally produces collagen from amino acids, you can support collagen production by ensuring that you’re eating adequate amounts of protein from foods like animals, poultry, fish, beans, and eggs.

Lastly, Dr. J and Dr. Bernd share that collagen promotes gut healing in inflammatory digestive conditions, such as irritable bowel disease (IBD). By taking collagen, you would help correct a deficiency and potential injury.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

In this episode, we cover:

0:00 – Introduction
5:13 – Diet Modifications
12:10 – Collagen and mTOR
37:35 – Protein
1:00:37 – Take aways

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey guys! Doctor Justin Marchegiani here. Really excited we got a guest back on the show. High demand doctor Bernd Friedlander, a great guy, known him for many years. He is a fountain of knowledge on many different health topics. We’re going to dive in, let’s see what we hit. I know we’re going to be coming out of the gate.Talking about collagen, reducing inflammation, sunlight, 5G, epigenetics. We’ll dive in and see where the conversation goes. Doctor Bernd, how we doing, man? What’s cooking?

Dr. Bernd Friedlander: How are you, Justin? I’m doing great. You’re wonderful. Yes. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Good, excellent. So let’s start off. We were talking kind of pre show, let’s kind of take that here. You were a chiropractor for the 1984 I think was it the the summer or Winter Olympics?

Dr. Bernd Friedlander: It was. No, it’s the Summer Olympics. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That was in LA, right?. 

Dr. Bernd Friedlander: In LA. Yeah. And matter of fact, I got selected for the 1980 Olympics, but there was a boycott in Russia, so we never went there. So what we did is we took over from 80 and get and training the athletes from 78 to 80 while I was going through chiropractic school and I also had a degree in physical therapy and exercise physiologies in a strong nutritional bracket background. So that helped me with uh, you know, working with athletes and now it myself played professional soccer. I ran track in college, I swam in college, so I did a lot of sports. I was into the sports arena quite a bit. And having six, eight years of physical therapy training from 72 to 78, that seemed to have helped me the most, you know, in preparing myself for training and rehab and nutrition and getting into Chiropractic work, all of that help and so in 19. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So you had to have had a connection to get picked for the beat of the Doctor of the 1980 and 84 Olympic Games. So how did that happen?

Dr. Bernd Friedlander: Boy, it’s karma. What happened was I was finishing up my degree in.Glendale getting my LACC chiropractic license. And I was, I didn’t like. I wanted to be closer to the ocean, to the beach, because I grew up there and I moved down to Santa Monica. And had bought a house down there and I was going to UCLA and working out every day, and then I devote relationships with coaches and athletes there.They started realizing that I had some knowledge about training and rehab and and also injuries because of my physical therapy and they found out I was going through chiropractic school and I was getting my degree there.One of the coaches, Bob Bush, they named the stadium after him at UCLA. He asked me to work with him and many of his athletes. He and they were training for the 84 Olympics because the 80 got boycotted and we were working for the 80 at that time with Bob Bush, but we got, you know, cancelled. So we started the program again at UCLA and then I get, I gravitated to Patrick Connolly, who was training Evelyn Ashford, the fastest 102 hundred meter women athlete in the world at that time? And then I was working with Bob Kersee, who was, who took over for Bob Buesch as the head of the UCLA track and field coach. And he started using me for all of his athletes and training them and rehabbing them and giving them exercise programs and then work on nutrition as an alternative to steroids because that was my background there at UCLA, was working on alternative steroid programs for the athletes, and then I started to gravitate with him and all these athletes were coming down to train at the 84. Olympics at UCLA. So many countries came, you know, England, Russia, Germany, East Germany, all these countries came down to train with us. And then I became very good friends with John Wooden and the president of UCLA, and he saw what I was doing and he came up to me and I treated him on a couple injuries that he had and he says you, you know, I couldn’t even walk the other day. Now I’m walking today. You know it’s amazing. So he asked me to come in and he gave me a position, Durham and honorary molecular biology degree that he gave me and he asked me to head up the Sports Medicine Research Center at UCLA.  And that’s how I got involved with everything. And then the coaches that I was working with, they asked the US Olympic to have me on the team and that’s how I got involved with it. And I also had my own athletes that was trained.The 84 Olympics, like Ron Brown and I was working with Carl Lewis and other people like that. So I had quite a few people. Bob Kersee had all the female athletes that I was training with. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So when you look at a lot of the athletes that you’ve had insight to how deal with their diets back then when they pretty crappy and they just were relying on good trading in genetics or were they dialed in back then? 

Dr. Bernd Friedlander: Oh, my God. Yeah. I mean, Twinkies was their popular dish. Can you believe it? Peanut butter. Yeah. Peanut butter. Reeses cups. That’s what they ate. And that’s why they were always inflamed and injured. And then when I worked in 85, 86 with the Raiders and Rams and Lakers, their diet was mostly pasta and bread and carbs. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I mean you know you’re you’re exercising so much so from a caloric standpoint an insulin wise you’re going to be able to burn that off but your fatty acid profiles so inflamed. So you’re if you get injured, it’s gonna be hard to heal, plus you don’t have any connective tissue building blocks coming in. So as you get injured, the pliability of that tissues and then we just, uh, you get less pliable tissue, less ability to absorb force over time with injuries, it’s crazy. 

Dr. Bernd Friedlander: Absolutely. So what we did was we worked on nutrition with them protein, eggs, fish, you know meat and cut down the carbs like pasta and breads and less, uh, rice and potatoes. So we increase almost like a carnivore diet with these people. And 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You do healthy. I mean, obviously they’re burning a lot of carbs. Could you do starches like sweet potato and squash or even white potato? Would you? 

Dr. Bernd Friedlander: Oh yeah. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Would you consider those still more anti-inflammatory type of starches?

Dr. Bernd Friedlander: Yes, yes. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: But you were trying to grain and gluten back then, the out in the early 80s too. 

Dr. Bernd Friedlander: Yeah, we knew it was leading to a lot of information. I was very fortunate at UCLA that I was involved with so many great minds, you know. One of my patients was Roy Walford, who was the father of caloric restriction diet. So I learned everything about restriction diet and what it contributes to and how it works on the body and he took it too fa into it. I did not. I kind of realized that we can’t do a strict diet like that because we need calories or we’re gonna have oxidative damage and stress and the athletes need to eat. They need 6-7 meals a day. OK. And they needed small protein and they needed the route, right? Amount of carbs from vegetables they have to be cooked and potatoes, they have to be mashed potatoes or rice, they have to be white and they have to be. And we added butter with it. Not Gee at that time because we didn’t have Gee, but it was mostly butter that we used. We use butter for all our training sessions with the athletes. And then fortunately I got a mini companies donating uh research to us, you know, like supplements like Co-Q10 came from Japan, didn’t know anything about Co-Q 10, we started using it, so amazing results. We started using pycnogenol from France. And started giving that to the athletes and saw an increase in oxygen levels. It was amazing. And then knocks gelatin came over and supplementing us with Knox gelatin powder, which then that’s how I got into the collagen. Before I I didn’t know anything about it. And I started talking to the Knox gelatin chemist at that time and they, they were explaining to me how important, you know, it was in rebuilding and rehabbing, you know. It was more for rebuilding, regenerating and and and helping with injuries, recovering it faster and that’s what we use at that time. We use a packet of Knox gelatin with vitamin C at three times a day. And the increased results were amazing with that, wow. And that’s when 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We’ll talk about the amino acid difference with gelatin or collagen, obviously collagen peptides are probably even better because those long chain peptides are broken down, so they’re better absorbed, would you agree?

Dr. Bernd Friedlander: Gelatin is a great product, but it has to still be broken down by the stomach. OK, you need hydrochloric acid, you need pepsin, and you need B6. Collagen is already broken down into peptides. I just knew how to do it even faster and better by eliminating uh by doing a certain enzymatic process to make collagen which made it into a signaling peptide. So you have what’s known as signaling peptide collagen in your product. And that’s what 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: With that. So, so what’s the signaling peptide? What does that mean? 

Dr. Bernd Friedlander: Well, what it does, it actually turns, it turns on the signaling effects of the peptides in the collagen. That’s what it does. So you’re going to get better utilization from it, that’s all you know, uh, you know, I started it in an 84 collagen. I was probably the only person out there that knew a little bit about it and was trying to find researchers.Out there, and there weren’t that many companies making collagen. There was only a few companies. And then I started in the 90s, I started meeting a guy, Bob Buesch, I mean Bob Buescher from Great lakes. He was the only other fellow that I knew was into gelatin and collagen at that time. He was more into gelatin, so Great Lakes was more of a gelatin thing. And then as I, you know, got into it, I realized that you as a chiropractor, your patients coming in are all cartilage damage, are ligaments, tendons, muscles and bone. And so I realized one of the most important foods we can supplement people with is collagen, and that’s how I got into the collagen business in the late in the Twenties, 2000s, you know, because at that time I was just using whatever I could from anybody, you know, it wasn’t abundant at that time. Today, everybody’s using it, you know, I got David Asprey bulletproof involved with it. He didn’t know anything about it. I got vital proteins involved with when they came to my lecture at Expo West in Anaheim and they were listening to my lecture and that’s how everybody got involved. They realized the importance of collagen and one of the key importance of collagen is, it’s devoid of three amino amino acids. It’s the only protein on the planet that’s devoid of these three amino methionine, yes, and they’re leaders of mtor, which are inflammatory compounds. They cause oxidative damage, they can lead to thyroid oxidation, thyroid damage. So it affects mitochondrial function. And that’s the molecule that we all live on. It’s mitochondria. That’s the key. That’s what I studied over 30 years ago, was how athletes train and why do they train differently in different countries. And what makes a good athlete versus a bad why I sold the Kenyans and Jamaicans and all these other athletes being so good at, in track and field, it’s because sunlight and mitochondria was the predominant thing in the 80s that I didn’t even realize then yet that I discovered later on was the key to everything and the type of food stage, which was very gelatinous foods, you know, collagen derived foods. That’s where we ate you know many hundreds of years ago and maybe 30-60 years ago, 1000 years ago we were more gelatinous people.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I want to dive a little bit deeper in there. We can go then we can move on. But collagen is so important for me because, one like you said, we eat a lot more muscle meat which is going to be more methionine, Cysteine rich right, not necessarily a bad thing, but we’re missing the connective tissue because we always talk about old foods don’t cause new disease, one of the biggest, oldest foods they’re there was, was, was soups and bone broths putting the bones in, in the pressure cooker or in the pot and really extracting those amino acids. So collagen is really high in hydroxyproline, proline, glycine, both of those. One are really high and connective tissue, glycine so important for gut health that’s I think part of the the guts diet is a lot of these bone broths which really what’s that healing property, it’s that glycine to help with those enterocytes. So you have connective tissue you have gut health, right. And they’re also good precursors, especially glycine. That’s a backbone for glutathione too, because you comment a little more on that. 

Dr. Bernd Friedlander: Yeah, well, we know collagen is a perfect food, almost. You know, as you get older. What did they give you in the hospital? Gello, right? Yeah. Besides the other things. Yeah. But you’re getting a sort of a good protein that helps with recovery and rebuilding. One of the things is we’re eating a very inflammatory diet today you know we’re eating fried foods. The worst foods on the planet Earth for the last 30-40-50 years has been fried foods. Anything that is seed oil made with canola or even  Avocado oil, olive oil, any of these oils, they’re very lipid, oxidative. They cause mitochondrial damage and thyroid damage, and causes 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Isn’t avocado a little bit higher smoke point though, I know it’s you.You always want to use a saturated fat. It’s better your tallow your coconut oil, but isn’t it a little bit higher of a smoked point than the other ones though? 

Dr. Bernd Friedlander: Yeah, but in the body the oxidative chain of the these fats, fatty acid composition are very long. And so they’re more exposed to oxidative damage. And the smaller the chain is, the less oxidative power damage we’re gonna have, you know, and that’s the key. I mean that’s, yeah, that’s why get everything from ghee and  butter. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And they did it, beef tile. They had a beef tile up to 89 and then went to soybean oil. So yeah, having it low or some kind of saturated fat that that has the doesn’t have all the double bonds between the carbons. They’re going to be a lot less prone for oxidation. 

Dr. Bernd Friedlander: Yeah. So you want less of these little acids, Omega 6, which is the most conducive problems we have today to every disease we know of. An aging is number one. You know, my background was at UCLA was studying aging you know, and athletic performance and and so I got into everything what causes aging, it’s a pathway that we take. And we take the right pathway and don’t make the wrong turns. We live longer and and also we survive longer and we feel better and healthier if we take the wrong pathways and eat fried foods and starches and carbs and you know, in and out burgers, everything out there is conducive to medical medication, that’s what they want. They want the medications, you know, and the more you get.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So if we choose good fatty acids, ideally we want to be choosing more saturated fats, probably more animal fats, or exactly and if we choose. Probably on the more dressing side, avocado oil may be addressing olive oil. Olive oil may be more of a dressing. And then obviously you probably like cooking with ghee over butter just because it has that lactose and casein kind of more pulled out, right? Would you agree? 

Dr. Bernd Friedlander: I love ghee. Ghee is my predominant, uh, butter that I use right now for everything. It has a higher point. It’s very high in the antioxidant vitamin E, and it’s very high in Gerald Pollack’s book on 4th phase of water. You know, and how to keep, you know, we gotta maintain that water in the cells. That cells and gels the engine of life. And I was very fortunate to meet the Gilbert Ling on the phone and Gilbert is probably the greatest scientist of our time who discovered how cells function and how energy works in the in the cells in the cytoplasm of the mitochondria and the MRI device was developed by Raymond Amanian, who we just lost recently, and so sad, he was a genius and it was because of the water structure and the protein of the cells, that was the basis for the foundation of how cells work and that’s how the MRI came up to play because of Gilbert Ling work and that’s how Gerald Pollack discovered the cells and gels the engine of life and then the fourth phase of water, it all came around, it accumulated because of the knowledge of all these great minds we have today and going back to college, and one of the key things I think is that collagen is on the nitrogen utilization. Uh, you know, chart. Egg is maybe number one and collagens #2 and then meat. So, also the other thing with collagen does it, it protects us from mtor pathways, inflammatory pathways, oxidative pathways. It the nutrients in the peptides and proteins in the collagen balances us from getting

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: What mTOR is? Just so people have a little background. 

Dr. Bernd Friedlander: mTOR is a, it’s a wrap on myosin compound which helps to what it does when we’re young, OK, like we’re growing up in that early, uh two to five, 10,18 years old, we are growing. We need muscles, we need the growth and repair, and we need cell growth. mTOR is part of that pathway. So that’s what helps in helping cells replicate faster. So we get bones, we get muscles, we get organs we get. But as we get to about 30 years old, these things can lead to damaging uh cells like senescence, they can lead to cancer cells, they can lead to diabetes, heart disease. They can overdo too much and we don’t want that extra growth at that period of time, we already fully develop. We don’t need it, so we need to keep it down. And it’s the same thing with the deuterium, the water deuterium is the same thing. We need it when we’re young.The deuterium is a heavy hydrogen nuclear um, you know, that’s found in all the water and foods all over the world. We need it when we’re young. As we get older, it can disrupt the mitochondria from functioning and making ATP correctly so it can damage it. There’s a spin in the ATP process of the cytochrome 5 which makes all the electrons takes the electron, protons and protons. Protons from our foot. With oxygen and sunlight to make every single component of energy that’s made in the ATP chain, and if we have too much deuterium in there, it slows down the spin cycle so the batteries are not working as well, so the body has 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I wanna break a couple things down. You’re saying a lot of good things. I just want to make sure I understand what you’re saying. So First off on the collagen because you really went into that right now talk about collagen and mTOR is it because it’s missing some of those big free amino acids it keeps you need low. So essentially mTOR good when you’re younger, anabolic protein bone, but at some point having it too high as you get older it can cause this cancer growth so. Collagen amino acids are in a profile that is gonna limit mTOR. What else is? Is that correct? And then what else can we do to also limit mTOR?

Dr. Bernd Friedlander: It’s cutting down, well collagen has the best safety factors because it’s so it has zero, um, of these three amino acids. So if you have a certain level of these amino acids, let’s say leucine is a mTOR pathway. It’s in a branch chain amino acid, right? But leucine has to be over 2000 grams of, 2000 grams of leucine a day. If you keep it under 2000 grams like 1000, you’re not going to get into our pathway because there’s not enough of those amino acids to switch it to it. And that’s why collagen doesn’t have these tryp thing, methionine, cysteine foods. So it’s not going to promote it, but certain foods in nature like you know organ meats and meats in general can do that. You know, if you’re eating a lot of it, it will produce mTOR pathways and this research the only known true research today is that was a extension of lifespan by 40% was by the reduction of mTOR. By lowering methionine and tryptophan, specially methionine in the diet. Low methionine diet. Richard Miller, MD, PhD published this work and now it’s well known out there in publication that you know, Life extension is really by lowering methionine and then cysteine and tryptophan.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So what else you mentioned the Omega-6 especially the processed Omega-6is it’s really the Omega-6 that’s gonna be from processing that’s going to get oxidized and damaged and rancidity we have that, does that affect mTOR, what about carbs, what about insulin resistance, what else on your diet and lifestyle can Jack up mTOR? 

Dr. Bernd Friedlander: Anything that is rich foods that are in tryptophan, methionine, those cysteine. So if you have a lot of high cysteine foods, high methionine foods, like you know you will, I mean if you over process too much of these type of foods and a lot of fruits and a lot of vegetables have high methionine and tryptophan.Think of this yogurt. OK, yogurt whey protein is very high in tryptophan and methionine, especially methionine. So any of the whey protein that people are using today that are above 25 years old, 28 years old, 30 years old. There’s so many people using it in their milkshakes, in their athletic performing drinks. Whey protein has the highest form, methionine, so it you keep constantly taking that you will get a mTOR and I have seen that with professional lifters, they got increased heart disease, enlarged heart, they had cardiovascular damage, they had kidney failures. So I seen it that these athletes, so if you’re going to have yogurt, have Greek  yogurt because the way protein is totally removed from that. So you’re not getting any of the 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: A lot of these amino acids like cysteine for instance, a lot of studies on and N-acetylcysteine with all kinds of different things from lung health to glutathione levels to to helping with virus stuff and and viral replication and immune function, a lot of data on that being beneficial, how does that, how does that connect? Because we see a lot of data on some of these things being beneficial, also tryptophan, you know, that could be really helpful for serotonin, sleep and all that. How do those connect? 

Dr. Bernd Friedlander: OK glutathione is a very controversial thing. I never use it, never have, never will. I’ve been doing Cancer Research for almost 40 years, 50 years now, and one thing I learned from the Germans, they were the best in this field. In the 80s when they were visiting me. In the 90s when I went to Mexico and worked with clinics. Glutathione is an antioxidant that protects cancer cells from chemoradiation surgery. They know how to protect themselves, they know how to build the defense systems, and glutathione is one of the key defense systems that cancer cells use to protect themselves from oxidative damage, from death, or whatever. There’s another thing that we need to know is oxidation reduction. OK. Oxidation is how everything is electron flow into the chamber to make energy. In the end of all this is the reduction state. All the electrons are received and they need to be converted back to donation instead of receiving, only if we only receive electrons and don’t know how to donate back. That’s how we end up dying, and that’s how we end up being sick. And that’s how we start aging. It’s called oxidation reduction NAD NADH. And there’s one other thing that people don’t understand is called glutathione, oxidative glutathione and reduction glutathione and everybody today is in that reductive state of glutathione which is only grabbing electrons but is not converting it back to energy. And that’s what we need to do as a living system. We need to have those things functioning. Oxidative reduction states low. NAD High, NADH low. Then we have the glutathione stage, the oxidative stage and the reductive state and oxidative. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I wanna break some of it down for the listeners to make sure we’re on the same page, so when you’re talking reduction, reduction is nothing more than a gain of electrons. You have an extra electron and we’re talking oxidation, we’ve lost an electron. And so the goal with a lot of antioxidants, they’re trying to come in there when they’re in an oxidized state, they’re trying to give off that electron to bring that electron back up to a stable place, is that correct? 

Dr. Bernd Friedlander: Right. But then a lot of that, yeah, a lot of the antioxidants are in the reduced state. Think of vitamin C. What does vitamin C? Vitamin C is an antioxidant, but in the cell, It’s ,uh, we oxidative state. In the normal chemistry of this cell or vitamin C supplements, they’re in the reduced state, so they need to be converted inside the cell to dehydroxy C ascorbic acid, which is a oxidative state of vitamin C. Vitamin E is one of the few other ones that really is a very strong antioxidant that can be used as an anti-inflammatory, as an oxidative state. Umm, vitamin and not too many. You know a lot of your polyphenolic, so you know all your fruits and vegetables, especially your juices. They have a lot of flavonoids. And flavonoids are very important in reducing inflammation. But also, they’re also reducing oxidative stress. And promoting electron flow in the electron chamber because they can produce an increase electrons in oxygen and that’s what we need.  

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: How does sodium potassium pump come into play because we know sodium potassium really important and we know a lot of these vegetables have a lot of potassium. Many large percent of the population deficient potassium. Where do those electrolytes come into play here? 

Dr. Bernd Friedlander: OK, that’s Gilbert Ling has shown that these cells do not have sodium potassium pumps. They don’t work that way. That’s Gilbert  Ling. Read cells the engine life. Ray Peat is one of the best in the field in understanding sodium pumps. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We need these potassium and we need these electrolytes though, right?

Dr. Bernd Friedlander: No, we don’t really need it. We get enough of those in the cell. It, uh, here’s what it is. If you studied the electron mitochondria. Douglas Wallace, he’s the father of mitochondria by far, you know, and there’s many others. Every disease, 99% of all disease is based on what we call mitochondria decay. OK. And it’s the damaging effects of mitochondria, OK. And that’s all the diseases out there, you know and can. So what we’re seeing is that in nature, there is no, energy is required by the cytoplasm of the cell, and that’s where the mitochondrion takes electrons and makes energy ATP, and that’s how the cell survives. And water is key in structuring the cells, the gels of the cells and so is protein and that’s why it looks like a jello and having that, that’s the key to everything out there. And so if you read the book Cells and Gels, you read Gilbert Ling work, you leave Tom. Do you know Thomas Cohen? The MD. Yeah, he is very controversial because he was against the vaccine and all that and the virus. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: He was up in San Francisco, right? 

Dr. Bernd Friedlander: He was in San Francisco and he’s in New York now. And he has now. Yeah, yeah, he’s doing consultation and he’s 100% right about the cells and gels of how the cells exist today. They don’t have any sodium-Potassium, you need sodium and you need potassium as an electrolyte for nerve function, for electricity to occur in the body because we’re a DC current, we’re not an AC we’re DC current. That’s Robert Becker’s book on body electric, and I had a chance to work with him when I was at UCLA and the guy was a brilliant scientist. And that we’re all a DC electrical system. Everything works on that. And it’s all on low frequencies and low, uh, hertz. And everything is low gas. We’re a very extreme low gas human being and when we’re under a lot of high gas, we get damage. And so, uh it if you have a chance, read the Cells and gels by Gerald Pollack, Read Gilbert Ling book, Ray Peat. He’s got millions of articles on sodium pump and then Thomas Cohen’s work and Jack Cruz on who’s a neurosurgeon on biohacking the mitochondria with sunlight. They all know about the cells now they understand, and that’s how they know how to work with the cells and fix it again. And that’s what I’m doing today, is understanding chemistry and how it started 303 billion years ago, how it all came into play. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Alright, so we put a lot of things out here, but in regards to it like the average person listening, they’re like OK, like what am I gonna do? What’s the action item? So give him one or two things that they can do to help improve the cells and gels, the mitochondria, I mean outside of we already talked about a couple of things with processed food, we already talked about sunlight, collagen, you know, having the mTOR, the Omega-6, what else can be done kind of low hanging fruit wise? 

Dr. Bernd Friedlander: You know, I think, I think going back to how we were created OK and who we are OK and what chemistry of life created us? 600 Billion, uhh, million years ago, sunlight was starting to develop and just going back to little history so you understand who we are. The sunlight was developing and was maturing and chlorophyll was present 600 millions years ago. But it was needed by plants. And then 500 million years ago, the Sun developed even stronger and UV light, A, B and C was the foundation of the sunlight. That’s the strength of the sunlight. And it was maturing 500 million years ago. And guess what, that’s what helped to create the hemoglobin, which was the iron part of the blood, not the magnesium is part of the plant. But then the mitochondria was developing because at that period of time, the UV came through the ozone layer and tripled the lay amount of oxygen in the atmosphere and that’s what created life. All of us. So that’s what helped with us was the sunlight. And the sunlight and the mitochondria was perfect. The oxygen levels was perfect. Thermodynamic temp, Temperatures of the ocean and the land was perfect. And that’s why things started developing humans and everything. So going back today, we live in an indoor world. OK. All the food we can eat today, it doesn’t make a difference because what we need is the function of the mitochondria and that is stimulated by the whole spectrum of the sun’s, not just the portion of the spectrum. The ATP cycles this cell electron transport C1,C2,C3,C4 and C5 requires photosynthesis to occur in order to make energy in the food. So we need to be exposed in the sun more early in the morning. So we get our circadian going, our pineal gland and thyroid going. That’s how we get a stimuli. Then at lunchtime, we need to expose ourselves 30 to 60 minutes of with no shirt to get vitamin D and unique cholesterol to make vitamin D so you cannot deprive yourself of the cholesterol foods. That’s how you’re going to get sick. And then again, you need that they are reduction of blue light at night, so you need to escape blue light and that’s where you try to get some sunlight in the evening because a different spectrum of light, so we’re exposed to blue light damage, artificial lighting, and it was all discovered by a guy named Kessler.  We need to develop the AC current. Remember that? And what did they operate in the 1800s? Kerosene in the street. So we were using artificial lighting then, and that’s what started the decay of the human population since then. And then the other thing is realized, we need good food. We need to get good water, Not fluoride, fluoride, you know fluoride is a damaging effect in water. We need to get non fluoridated water. We need to ,Um, We need to eat a higher amount of protein and less, Uh, starches and carbs and not. So we don’t, you know, vegetables are good, but they’re not because they can cause a lot of oxalates and oxidative damage to the thyroids. Yeah, there’s a lot of estrogenic foods in nature. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So can you get protein from animal products? Can can you be making vegetarian in your mind and be healthy and get your protein from animal products strictly? 

Dr. Bernd Friedlander: You have to be from animal products only. That’s how we do. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And why though? Why?

Dr. Bernd Friedlander: Well. Did I lose you?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: No, I’m here.You’re going. Alright. Well you’re well you’re kind of getting your stuff here. I’ll kind of riff on a little bit. I mean the reason why I think Dr Bernd may be a big fan of animal protein and they I am as well obviously is going to be just the amino acid profile you’re going to get essential all your top eight or nine essential amino acids with a lot of vegetarian proteins. You gotta combine them, and when you combine them, usually you’re missing either methionine or lysine or protein. You get to combine them. The problem is when you combine them, you get a lot of extra carbohydrates. You know when you typically combine animal or or vegetarian proteins? Rice, beans, whatever, quinoa. Usually it’s about a 60 to 70% starch.To your 15 or 20 grams of protein. So you end up getting a lot of carbohydrate. So people attend to do OK on the vegetarian, vegan type, they tend to be more ectomorphs, tend to be people that do well on high carb foods if you’re more prone to insulin resistance like I am, or most of the population.You you’re gonna get too much carbohydrates for you and for your activity level and so you really gotta choose good animal proteins where you get the proteins, you get the fats obviously. You’re also getting less Omega 6 less to the inflammatory foods that are going to be in those vegetarian protein, so it’s good to get it from animal sources that are pasture fed, um, naturally raised, grass fed, whether it’s eggs, chickens eating bugs, whether it’s whether it’s beef and grass and cows and grass, whether it’s chickens, whether it’s Lamb pasture fed diets going to shift that fatty acid profile and that fatty acid is more in the natural state, it’s in any more anti-inflammatory, nutrient dense and you’re going to get a lot more nutrition in in the animal product. So we lost Dr Bernd here. So I’m going to just keep on riffing unless he can jump back on here and just try to provide a lot of value for y’all and if you want to kind of chum it, come in here in the chat guys and just put some questions in. Feel free and rip off some of that. So just summarize, collagen, really helpful, really good building blocks, connective tissue for your joints, ligaments, tendons, you’re not going to get that animal protein. So, love collagen, again, I worked out to Dr. Bernd to kind of formulate my own collagen that has the the peptide form. We’ll put links down below where you guys can get it. Um, the problem with a lot of collagen on the market, they’re made with sulfuric acid, so when you blend it in coffees and teas, you taste it. It’s got this really not so good after taste. So when you use proteolytic enzymes, it’s gonna blend better, it’s not gonna have the after taste and then you get these signaling, uh proteins in there which are which are really important. So if you have joint issues, especially as you get older and you started to see your gaps and your X-ray start to drop a little bit. That the hip or the knee and you started to go bone on, bone in knee, the connective tissue building blocks to build back up that joint base. Very important. If you don’t bring the raw material in, you’re gonna have a problem. Next big thing, you should need the Omega. You know, good quality fatty acids, more from animal. If you’re gonna do more of the vegetable, make sure it’s keeping on the the low temperature side. Very important. I’m a big fan. Doctor Bernd, is more of a carb guy, but you can see him. He’s a leaner, he’s a leaner kind of wiry guy, right. He’s going to do really good with more carbohydrates, those kind of things. You gotta adjust your carbohydrates for your body type. So if you’re kind of a an ectomorph, think of that as the the dancer, the basketball player, leaner, taller person, then you need to adjust. You could probably handle more carbs, if you’re the mesomorph, that’s the in between. I’m kind of the mesomorph. I’m kind of like the, the linebacker, right. You can be lean, but you can also get big too. And then then you have the endomorph. That’s the the lineman, right? That’s the the person that’s more prone to just to be big. And gain weight with carbohydrate, yet to figure out where you sit. And then you also have to look at your activity level. If you’re walking ten, 15,000 steps today, doing a little bit of lifting, you can always get away with more carbs. The more active you are, the less active you are, you got to adjust that.Well, get that to Dr. Bernd back on here. Let’s see if I can plug them back in. Alright. Bernd. We were just kind of riffing that. I was riffing a little bit here on collagen and fatty acids and we had a little collagen. Yeah, no big deal, we’re just kind of roll with it. Can you go back and just talk about joint issues? Umm, have you seen a lot of case studies your experience people with bone on bone or serious joint issues. Have you found they’ve been able to build that joint back up with collagen? 

Dr. Bernd Friedlander: You know what, in combination with your, uh, the work that we do and using red light in infrared light. Heat lamps. I think the combination we definitely need collagen for the recovery, I found an interesting study 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Have you seen clinically though, you can build that joint back up when it’s already worn down, when you’re like, hey, I may need a knee or hip replacement in a couple of years. Can you avoid that? Can you build it back?

Dr. Bernd Friedlander: If you still have cartilage left, OK. And I think, you know, most of us do.If we use a certain, I found that if we go from 60 grams to 100 grams of collagen.There’s a greater chance of recovery and rebuilding and restructuring the cells, yes, if we get you know. Umm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We lost some folks. I’m gonna keep riffing here. So yeah, Bernd’s talking about bringing that collagen up to 100 grams or so. Again, usually you get about 10 to 15 grams per scoop. I do about 20 or 30 grams a day. I put it in my coffee. My collagen, it blends well, it just acts like a Creamer. It just thickens it up and then I’ll throw a little bit of butter and MCT oil and blend it up. I try to get good fats cause you gotta think of eating good healthy fats. That’s support for your cell membranes, right? Cell membrane health is so important because that’s how your cells communicate. And the more you consume fatty acids that are going to be more on the oxidized side, that’s going to create oxidative stress that’s going to deplete your antioxidant reserves. It’s also going to make your cell membrane stiff and inflexible. We’re just talking about cell membrane stiffness with all the excess fatty acids here, but go ahead with the collagen and the joy of recovery. 

Dr. Bernd Friedlander: So I feel if we, uh, use a combination of.Vitamin D calcium and a good gym diet and keep the collagen up about 45 to 60 grams a day, which is, you know, and I’ve had 100 grams a day with many of my athletes. I seen faster results from college and you know, I’ve seen better results with the higher level of you know collagen in the grams, adding calcium, vitamin D and light therapy and as much as he, If we can generate into that area. So we can get 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: better more articulation over like chicken or fish multi collagen, is there a reason why you like the beef better versus the other?

Dr. Bernd Friedlander: The reason I like better and I you know I’ve used it only if pretty much in my whole career going back to the 80s, maybe a little pork at that time because of Jello. Gelatin.Yeah. Um, At least I today I know I’m getting quality I would would beef. I know I can get grass fed beef. Chicken. There’s no way of getting grass fed chicken. They’re mostly using, uh, soy and corn, right? And so you’re getting hormones in there, you’re getting estrogen. And then in the no control of the environment that then because there’s so much contamination today in the water. And what they’re feeding them. So I don’t really use that either. It’s all because of the process of how they’re made. If I can get collagen and I get beef that’s grass fed 100% all the way to the end, I know I’m getting quality and I’m getting, you know, consistent results.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That makes sense. So that’s very good And how does, how does the? What? What the animal eats? Whether it’s cows eating grass or chickens eating bugs, how does that affect the amino acids? Do you notice like collagen from let’s say factory farm chickens or factory farm carbs? Does the amino acid spectrum in that collagen change? Which shifts? 

Dr. Bernd Friedlander: In collagen, you know, the only thing I notice is the quality of the collagen comes from a good source of grass fed cows, OK? Umm. So I can tell the difference with my clients and patients for years, their response, their results are better. I’m getting you know, yeah and I’m not getting any of the inflammatory conditions and I don’t have to worry about any of the hormonal factors that may be found in residues and really low residues in these things. You know and then the vitamin E level and collagen is a little bit higher in grass fed animals than and they’re lowering in you know the polyunsaturated fats. So I’m getting almost none of that in my grass fed.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s good. So someone else listening here, we talked about sunlight, that’s easy. Obviously we don’t want to get a sunburn. We talked about mTOR and insulin and fasting and fatty acids. What else can someone do to kind of help put their kind of start signaling those healthy anti-aging Epigenetics, right, the genetics are just kind of what’s there that’s that’s the hardware that’s already written. We’re talking about the epigenetics which is the software to help maximize that hardware use. What else can we do to optimize our epigenetics to be in that anti aging, healthy aging kind of path? 

Dr. Bernd Friedlander: Well, you know, eating a good meal, right? Having the right proteins, almost reducing the levels of polyunsaturated oils from seed oils. Umm. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Any other thing, is anything else more nuance and anything that yeah, my life reducing, they got anything else that’s more nuanced that they may not have heard before?

Dr. Bernd Friedlander: Reducing stress. Go for walks, get in the sun more often. Eliminate the amount of exposure indoors with blue light technology, you know, uh, put, if you’re going to bed here is the most important thing you can do at a certain time in the evening, do not look at your video or cell phone after 5,6,7 in the evening, OK? Get your body and mind ready for sleep and regeneration and anabolic steroids and all the stem cells that comes at night.That grows back. Get rid of all the Wi-Fi. Turn it off. Do not have your cell phone in the bedroom. Put it on airport mode or.I turned the whole phone off and I never have my Wi-Fi on during the days. Most of the days I’m inside and I’m very rarely inside and so I try to keep my bedroom free of any EMF electrical magnetic or radiation and I have a meter and I use that meter to give me sort of an idea what’s going on and I like, I like to try feel that’s the one I use because, Yeah, and that’s one I use every day for everything. You know, I go in the people’s home and I see what’s going on and I can say here’s your EMF levels, you need to reduce that and the only way to do that is unplug most of the electrical keep your refrigerator yeah and you know certain things on but you can pretty much turn everything off and if you can the, best thing is get a Ley line you know i know we’re out of it people don’t even know there’s Ley lines anymore. But you know we don’t lay line is where you you plugged in everything you know

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: a landline. 

Dr. Bernd Friedlander: Yeah. I’m sorry, landline. I meant landline. Yeah. Yeah. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Some of my patients that they’re. It you, you can also just try killing your breaker box to your house. Just kill the power for the night. Again, may not work. Yes, yes, yes, yeah, fridge come. But you can at least kill your room if you want. Again, it just depends upon how chronically sick you are too. You know the more sick you’re right, the more you can decrease that electromagnetic stress if you’re pretty healthy you could probably. That’s probably something you can adapt to. How do you manage the 5G stuff? Because that’s kind of everywhere now and these things are harder to avoid.

Dr. Bernd Friedlander: I go in the sun pretty much every morning, every afternoon I’m 2-3 hours in the sun. If I’m exercising, I’m exercising outdoors totally. I’m walking. I’m grounding myself. I walk in concrete. Or the best ideal place to walk is is in the beach. You know, being by the beach is ideal. That means there’s no 5G’s there and you’re grounding your body and you know, uh, getting back to nature, that’s really who we are. And try to limit the out indoor as much as you can unless, you know, get John Ott’s lamaran or any of those full spectrum lightings. Start using natural lighting back in the inside you know no LED’s and you know try to avoid that and get more of a full spectrum light. Where the it almost gives you the same resonance of a sunlight you know and that’s what you want to do and eliminate as much as you can 5G just don’t be near it and the like I said don’t be on the phone, don’t be on a video and avoid it. And I wear blue light glasses for last 10 15 years anyway at night, so if I’m exposing myself to anything I always wear my blue lights. And I have it all over my house now, blue light lamps. You know where they produce red lamps. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I love it. Dr. Bernd, very good. Well, anything else you want to highlight and leave with the listeners? I think you kind of put some really good information out there, fatty acids, collagen, the right types of collagen. We talked about sleep, we talked about light. Obviously with light you don’t want to get burned.Right. You want that minimal erythemal dose, morning hours, yeah, 8-9 or so. Later on. But just don’t get burned, would you agree? 

Dr. Bernd Friedlander: Well, here’s how you do it. Your body is exposed. The uh, you know, exposing yourself to UV light is how life started. OK, that’s the creation of every living system in our planet, OK, and UV is part of the importance of the mitochondria and building the mitochondria and all that. So what I’m thinking and what we need to do is, you know, don’t if you expose yourself slowly every day a little bit to’re not going to get burned OK. Burn only happens when you have a bad diet. If you eat a lot of polyunsaturated. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: mornings exposure, you haven’t acclimated your skin to it. 

Dr. Bernd Friedlander: Yes, I have no problems because I’m in the sun all the time, so if you go out in the sun. And you expose yourself, uh, 30 minutes, 15, 20 minutes in the morning. You’re protecting yourself already by doing that. Then at lunchtime 12 to 3, where UV is the highest, you’re not going to be damaged by it so much because you’re already developed a defense mechanism against that through the early sunlight, right? And if you’re worried about it, take an aspirin. And if you take an aspirin before you go out in the sun, you won’t get burned. And this was a study done in Israel, in Australia, about 1990s, that sunlight, taking an aspirin before going out on the sun doesn’t cost any inflammation or sunburn. And that was one of the two studies that they’ve done in Australia, the papers I read. It was phenomenal. So I take aspirin every day, especially at night, to protect myself against clotting mechanisms and strokes and cardiovascular things. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So why you choose an aspirin over ginger or some kind of something a little bit more natural? Because there’s an aspirin have other type of potential side effects though. Gastrointestinal upset or maybe a liver stress?

Dr. Bernd Friedlander: when I attended.The anti aging conference in Las Vegas. One of the people I met at the one of the speakers was the head of Bayer aspirin researcher. Yeah, and his whole speaking assignment that day was on Fox 2 Gene. It’s an anti aging gene that’s seen to be found in certain animals like you know worms and mice and now it’s shown to be in humans, aspirin actually extended the Fox 2 gene. So you’re not going to get diseases and aging and aspirin has probably more clinical studies than any other nutrient on the planet today. For anti-inflammatory condition for it’s mitochondria function I used to give my athletes coffee and aspirin to increase uncoupling mechanism which increases mitochondria function in the cells. So it has so many potentials, you know it, it is a truly, instead of causing reduction state in the cells, which we were talking about how oxidative states is the key and keeping electron flow going into the mitochondria and keeping our Redox cycling function going. So we’re donating electrons back to the energy chamber. Aspirin does that and and when you take with coffee in the morning, it doubles the uncoupling mechanism. So our athletes is so much like a steroid for them they can see a difference. And I’ve had people say this is worse than a steroid. I’ve never seen anything so good as aspirin and coffee and if you take it at night, it lowers the inflammatory condition. And one thing I learned from a cardiologist at Harvard was that it protects us from ever getting a stroke. When we get up in the morning, our cortisol levels are high.The potential for a blood clot to occur is greater at 4, 5, 6, 7 in the morning then any other time of the day. It’s because we’re just getting up and the blood is getting very stagnated and there’s a clotting mechanism and aspirin protects that. It prevents the platelet aggregation so it doesn’t happen.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: What about curcumin though? I’ve seen a lot of drug companies kind of focusing on the research of curcumin with anti cancer. It’s everywhere plus we know curcumin is really good for that platelet aggregation reduction that blood thinning effects. What about using that too, what do you think about other natural compounds? 

Dr. Bernd Friedlander: You know, it’s interesting. Um, I work with Elizabeth Dimarzio,  University of Florida AMM. OK. She’s the leading world expert in inflammatory compounds from herbs from all over the world, OK? And I’ve been involved with her for over 10 years now, and I’m on her board. And curcumin was not even close to being the highest in the anti-inflammatory or anti tumor cancer things, there were so many other compounds like Boswellia. If you’re gonna take anything Boswellia would be my second choice from aspirin because it has a Cox 1 and Cox 2 inhibitor. Yeah. And so there are many other herbs she found that a lot of the Chinese 1000 year old herbs, 2000 euro have tremendous medicinal benefits in anti-inflammatory and antitumor and frankincense is one of the big ones and Boswellia and ashwagandha.Those yeah, ashwagandha is very good. I would pick those over curcumin and turmeric would be on my second choice. My down the line 10th, 11th, 12th, because turmeric is the whole plant and has much more medicinal purposes.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So if you had to choose like whether a drug like aspirin or ibuprofen, you would choose the aspirin any day?

Dr. Bernd Friedlander: Every day because it also has a key molecule in there that we discovered in one of the research at Ohio State University Medical Center and at the Florida AM. It promotes ATP production, Mitochondria. Ibuprofen, Tylenol has a reductive state. Aspirin is an oxidizing state.It helps with oxidation. So that’s why I would choose that, because of the oxidative state. The oxidation of aspirin is very high, so it helps with mitochondria uncoupling. So we’re getting more ATP production, where Tylenol and all the other ones do not have that. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Aspirin profound effects on mitochondria is it uncouples mitochondria oxidation and induces mitochondrial permeability transition. Interesting. That’s cool. Yeah. Take a look at that. 

Dr. Bernd Friedlander: Yeah, I have hundreds of papers on aspirin, so we can move on that anytime. Absolutely. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. That’s very good. Awesome. Well, I appreciate that, Doctor Bernd, very cool. OK, anything else you want to leave the listeners with, We’ll put links down below and we’ll put some reference links to the collagen that we’re talking about and they’ll be show notes.Up with everything. Kind of transcribed for y’all. So you wanna go through. They actually read the transcription. That may be easier for you all. Anything else you wanna leave, listen with Dr. Bernd? 

Dr. Bernd Friedlander: Well, starting out the day. Get some sunlight, have a good breakfast. Don’t skip on protein. Protein is just so crucial. That again in the, uh, utilization of nitrogen.There was no plant protein on the top list. This is scientific studies that were done. And so you wanna stay on a good protein diet. You wanna make sure you get plenty of sunlight, you do the right exercise. Don’t overdo it. Don’t get into oxidative stress. Um, you know, casually. Uh. Be careful with fasting too, because fasting is a stressor. The body goes under stress, so you don’t want to go on too much. People are doing too much. Uh, fasting and not getting enough protein. And so the quality of repair, regeneration is reducing itself. So we’re seeing more injuries, we’re seeing more carless from like you probably have everybody’s talking to me in the gym say, well, you know I gotta get knee replacement this replacement that replacement because you know they’re stressing the joints out and not eating the right foods and like you said, collagen is necessary in keeping our cartilage up and ligaments and tendons and muscles up, but it lowers the inflammatory mechanism that is produced by majority of all the foods we eat today. And that’s all the fried foods and all the carbs and starches and wheats and grains. And we got Roundup in all our foods anyway. So that’s another problem. We haven’t even talked about Roundup, you know, and how it’s damaging mitochondria. It’s literally damaging the mitochondria. It’s costing ATP damage. And that’s another study 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I have a question I wanted to hit you with. So we talked about kind of cardiovascular exercise, right? There’s a lot of different types of cardio you can do. There’s some data on just kind of that long term steady state type of exercise being harder on your adrenals, more catabolic, but there’s data out there on Tabata, our interval type training is also I think it’s couple of people out there. Peter Attia kind of brought it to light the zone two type of cardio. Uh, where you’re keeping your heart rate and that you know mid to low one hundreds, you’re, you’re, you’re you’re still able to talk while you’re doing some exercise, whether it’s rolling or an elliptical. What’s your take on different types of cardio and their application, whether it’s an interval, Tabata, zone two? What do you like? What do you recommend for the average people?

Dr. Bernd Friedlander: You know, being an athlete specialist, exercise physiologist, I have changed my attitude to a lot of these things from the beginning, when we were excessively training people. I’ve learned more in the last 20 years about how to preserve the mitochondria. How not to damage it. OK, so if I do anything, I like walking. I don’t wanna stress my body out anymore, OK? I’ve done. I’ve been an Olympic athlete. I’ve been a professional athlete and I’ve seen the injuries that come with that, I’m very fortunate that I never had an injury in my young life, you know, until about 60 when I had to replace my hip because of the excessive wear and tear of my body as an Olympic athlete.Training five different professional teams. Coaching 3 Olympic teams, you know, 80, 84 and 88, it was too much. So I find that it is best to do some walking and some concentric workout. What’s a concentric workout? Short centric shortening the muscle, but on your way back down you still wanna show use resistance so you’re using resistance in both direction like slow push up 10 second push-ups, where you only count to 10 seconds going up, going down, 10 seconds holding in

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Holding it the whole way. That’s a long contraction. 

Dr. Bernd Friedlander: That was our studies in the 80s at UCLA, was concentric and short 10 second uh, workout so when you’re doing a curl. You take uh, I’m trying to show you it’s the curl is goes. You going like the bicep and you code down. Slow, slow, slow. Yeah. And you do 10 seconds up 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 10 seconds. 

Dr. Bernd Friedlander:  Yeah, same thing. You get a better workout in the shorter reps than you need. You don’t need that many reps. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I mean, I’m a big fan of slower eccentric because the problem is that prevents you from lifting too heavy weights and it’s lifting too heavy with crappy form that  bounced the weight or that hurt their back and the deadlift or squat. So when you have that slow eccentric, it’s really hard to hurt yourself on the end. Also, I just, I was thinking about this here. You got guys like Tom Brady who are just playing forever, is he consuming collagen? What do you think he’s doing? Obviously we got the book. He’s kind of autoimmune paleo guy. What’s he doing then to kind of keep himself longevity wise with his joints and everything else. You have any inside game on that? 

Dr. Bernd Friedlander: Well, you know when I was in a starting to work with a lot of the athletes we were introducing.Uh, hyperbaric chambers. We were introducing infrared saunas in the 80s. You know, nobody knew about it. Today, most of your athletes are using, you know, some many different forms. They’re using infrared saunas.They’re using red Infrared light therapy, they’re using heat. They’re using vibrational things, Shockwave. A lot of them are getting PRP. They’re getting uh, ozone therapy. I can tell you a lot of these are professional athletes and are becoming more aware of what’s going on. I used, I knew Tom Brady. I played basketball with him when he was in high school in Sierra High. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Is he in San Mateo, because you’re, you want right down the street from him at San Mateo. 

Dr. Bernd Friedlander: Yeah, I gave him a couple adjustments, you know, quietly at the gym. I knew he was a very bright individual and you have to be very bright. Like Howie Long was my favorite athlete overall. OK, here’s my really first really favorite athlete that I work with at the Raiders. And at that period of time he was very bright. He understood diet and he understood, you needed to do a lot of flexibility, like Pilates, yoga or stretching. Jerry Rice is like that. Jerry was very much into stretching. Tom is much more into that as well because 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Pliability work. He talks about it. 

Dr. Bernd Friedlander: Yeah, it doesn’t do a lot of weight training. And when Howie Long started working out with Lyle Alzado, his, you know. He started getting disc herniation and hamstring and calf damage and that’s How I Met him. And I think was you don’t want to do too much weight training. You do just enough. But you gotta do flexibility and if you don’t do that, your career is not gonna be long.You need to elongate the body, you need to do it alright. And I think people becoming smarter, you know, and I think nutrition is very important. I can only tell you the athletes I work with. I cut down their carbs, I increased their proteins and fruits and et cetera so that they have a better quality of health. As they’re working out.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I love it. Doctor Byrne. Well, let’s put a book in on this. Let’s bring this conversation back up. I’ll get you back on in a few months. We can continue the dialogue. I appreciate it. We’ll put links to find you. Anything else you want to leave the listeners, Doc? 

Dr. Bernd Friedlander: No, just enjoy life. Don’t get into everything you know. Stay away. Medicine really is your, you know, eating right, getting sunlight.Little exercise. That’s the medicine. That’s all you need. You don’t need anything else. You can live without taking any blood pressure medication or other medications because nature was there. That’s where we started. That’s what we need to get back to is live outside, eat, right and get plenty of natural lighting and enjoyment in your life. Just let food be your nature, but now your sunlight too.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Dr. Bernd, I  Appreciate it. You’re the man. Great chatting with you. We’ll talk soon. You take care. 

Dr. Bernd Friedlander: Alright. Thanks. Bye. Talk to you then. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Bye.


Audio Podcast:

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The entire contents of this website are based upon the opinions of Dr. Justin Marchegiani unless otherwise noted. Individual articles are based upon the opinions of the respective author, who retains copyright as marked. The information on this website is not intended to replace a one-on-one relationship with a qualified health care professional and is not intended as medical advice. It is intended as a sharing of knowledge and information from the research and experience of Dr. Justin and his community. Dr. Justin encourages you to make your own health care decisions based upon your research and in partnership with a qualified healthcare professional. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. Dr. Marchegiani’s products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. If you are pregnant, nursing, taking medication, or have a medical condition, consult your physician before using any products.