Float Tank Therapy to Help Your Nervous System #234
Anxiety, depression, and stressors are very hard to handle. There are different ways to help you ease them but this therapy might help you even more.
In this episode, learn about the float tank therapy which is very helpful to the nervous system. Also, breathing exercise which is included in today’s podcast. Stay tuned!
Dr. Justin Marchegiani
In this episode, we cover:
00:12 Get to Know Float Tank
02:21 The Story Behind
04:03 Benefits of Float Tanks
20:13 Box Breathing
Evan Brand: Yeah, let’s have some fun. We’re gonna talk about float tanks today, which is something that I haven’t done as much as I should have since I moved back to Kentucky from Austin. When I was in Austin, I was floating all the time but since I got back here, I haven’t done it as much but I’m inspired. So let’s talk about this. This is a good tool to have in the toolbox.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% man, yeah, 100% really excited to dive in. So one of the best things of float tank therapy, kind of the best things of it best aspects of it is a couple. So first thing is just decreasing all of the input the sensory input takes that sympathetic nervous system, that fight-or-flight nervous system response that’s taking in data, auditory, visually, tactile, it’s sensing everything and then it’s trying to see, should I be on alert, is this safe, is this not when we take all of the output and all the input. I’m sorry, audio-visual. Everything, one it comes down, the sympathetic nervous system, one to kind of realize that you’re in a safe place, then you’re not going to drown, so I remember, when I first got in the flow tank, I kind of freaked out for a minute because you’re like, where the heck am I, I’m in this like cocoon I-I’m stuck, it’s dark, I’m in water, and you kind of get freaked out a little bit but once you can kind of calm down and relax, it’s like, whoa, there’s no input coming in. Your nervous system can finally start to relax and then we have the benefit of hundreds of pounds of magnesium crystals or magnesium salts in the water, so then we have this massive surface area. Okay, your whole body sucking in all these minerals and the minerals is what allows you to be more floatacious, if you will, right, you’re on top of the water. You’re floating and then that’s gonna also drive more of a parasympathetic nervous system response, then we know how magnesium is a natural beta blocker relax the heart, it helps facilitate gaba working better, which is a really good inhibitory neurotransmitter. It turns down the sympathetic nervous response and activates the parasympathetic response.
Evan Brand: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: They’re off the bad, Evan.
That’s all awesome. I’m gonna go way back in time before the flow tanks even happened and talk about how they came in because it’s kind of a cool story. Dr. John, he’s a neuroscientist, he’s dead now, he passed away in 2001. He was born in like, 1915. Anyway, John Lilly, he actually got hired by the National Institute of Mental Health in 1954, means a long time ago and the goal of the National Institute of Mental Health were they were trying to isolate the brain from external stimulation, so they hired John Lilly. They said, okay, we need you to get a brain completely away from all sources of stimulation and so, that’s how he developed the float tank and I’m sure they were very crude compared to the float tanks now. They’re amazing but then it became recognized as rest which is restricted environmental stimulation technique, and I mean that we’re talking 1954, this is a long time ago. He did some other stuff too, like he was working with dolphins. He was trying to communicate with dolphins inside of a float tank and he was doing psychedelics before getting in float a while, so he was doing some other interesting things but really he is the godfather and so now there’s float tanks everywhere, so if people just look up floatation locations or there’s another website where to float or just Google, you know, New York float tank and I’m sure you can find some places but really, what it is it’s basically a giant bathtub. My, my personal preference is what’s called the ocean float room. It’s the biggest they have, other ones like clam shell type tanks but the ocean float rooms are the best because they’re so big. It’s just a big door, it’s like 10 feet tall, 10 feet wide ,10 feet long, I mean, they’re just gigantic and that way you don’t bump into the walls but you know the water is the same temperature as your skin so they call it skin receptor neutral, so when you get inside of this about 10 inches of water you don’t even feel the water if you know after a while your, your skin gets use to that feeling and you’re not claustrophobic. You know that’s one fear people have about float tanks, as well I don’t want to be in a dark enclosed space that doesn’t sound relaxing to me, well after you’re floating for a while you have no sense of gravity because of the magnesium. You have no sgin of space or depth because of the darkness so really as far as you know you’re floating in outer space so I’d like to address that concern that people have with these float tanks because that was my concern at first but 5-10 minutes in, you’re fine and yeah, there.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I had the same issue so it took me a few minutes just to kind of wrap my head around, okay, what’s this environment, like, am i okay, am i safe, you know, just am I gonna drown, am i art you know so it’s kind of getting your head wrapped around the safety of the place and then once you feel good about it, that magnesium just starts to creep in into your bloodstream and you just start getting really relaxed. Now one of the big things I would do in the flow tank is I would do a lot of wim hot breathing and that was super, super helpful and we can put an article or a video on how to do that but that was really, really helpful I would do a lot of meditation and or just visualization and it was just really great to calm my nervous system down, so I think typically, I would do a flow tank kind of therapy and then I would do a massage right after it’s my muscles are so relaxed, so if you guys want a parasympathetic weekend or afternoon, float a combine, my really nice massage afterwards, your muscles are like putty.
Evan Brand: Yeah, we’re vice-versa. Some people are too anxious to get into the float tank, you know, typically these float tanks are in a spa settings so you could always go in and there may be a massage therapist on staff where you could do a massage before to relax you enough to not be afraid of the float tank but really the fear is unwarranted. There’s really nothing to be afraid of. The biggest concern you may have is you get a little bead of sweat with some saltwater into your eye and then you got to wipe your eye out but beyond that, there’s really no concern for anyone.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah and Matt White kind of wrote in here on the YouTube chat, “Will help with muscles?” Yeah, definitely will, now Matt was talking about his serratus posterior, so that’s gonna be the serratus, that’s like a rib muscle, right, so that kind of connects into the rib so you’d want to get some myofascial release work done and if it’s hurting or kind of causing the problem while you’re in the tank. I’d probably get some myofascial release work done before and then go on the flow and take after but magnesium is known to help relax the muscles, so it kind of helps, you know, depolarize that muscle relaxants it so that’s a good first step and that should help you a lot that it allow you to enjoy the therapy better, because really, the goal is that we’re just trying to decrease the sympathetic nervous system responds so when we see patients with adrenal dysfunction, we’re doing the same thing, we’re not using flow tank therapy that’s an adjunct thing. We can add into it but we’re trying to clean up foods that are driving the sympathetic response inflammation giving nutrients to support healing using adaptogens which help the HPA access brain to adrenal communication loop but also affects the perception of stress, right. Some people deal with stress better and it’s part of it’s how they perceive it and part of using adaptogens, is adaptogens can help how you perceive stress so if you perceive it better then there’s less HPA access brain communication crosstalk between your adrenals and your brain, which means you’re less likely to over secrete cortisol or over secrete adrenaline and you’re more than likely to adapt to the situation, and one of the big things I tell my patients when you’re going into stress and it’s the same thing I’ll do in a flow tank, is the number one thing you have control over is controlling your breath. If you can control your breath for the most part, you can control that sympathetic nervous system response, so basically for breaths, into the nose and then out to the mouth. Some people say into the nose hold for a second and then out through the nose again for seconds so it’s kind of a four. In whole for a second and then for out hold for a second and that’s as box breathing but the breathing through the nose is what stimulates that parasympathetic nervous system response. This is granular number two in the in the nasal area which hits the brainstem and that activates that’s part of the vagus nerve system, right, so sorry the vagus plugs into the parasympathetic I think it’s like, one, two, five, seve,n nine, hit the parasympathetic branch and the vagus is the key one, that’s number ten, but number two which is the olfactory is really important it plugs into that parasympathetic response allows you to start hitting the breaks so that’s really good. So anytime you’re in stress really work on nasal breathing allowing the belly to distend when you breathe in that allows all the organs to move down it allows you to get a deep breath of air and your breathing through the belly you’re not breathing through these intercostal muscles. I wouldn’t be surprised if someone like Matt was talking about here you’re gonna put more stress on your chest and on your ribs when you’re a mouth-breather and when you’re, when your chest has to rise to breathe it should all be here it should all be in the belly.
Evan Brand: Yeah I love watching, you know, I’ve got a little girl who’s what, is she six weeks old. Now I love watching her breathe because she is 100% belly breathing. She hasn’t been conditioned yet with stress and fear and anxiety to be a mouth breather sI sent you a study so if you can check it outs I can’t put it in the YouTube comment because YouTube won’t allow me to put links, but I sent it to you Justin in the hangout chat, god I’m really cool, it’s a PubMed, you ought to look at the one, two, three, third picture in this study this was in the February of 2018, it was called Examining the Short-Term Anxiolytic and Antidepressant Effect of Floatation and there’s a third picture there, it’s incredible. It’s a huge list of all these different positive symptoms that were seen and so the biggest benefits were heightened creativity, heightened energy, feelings of euphoria, joy or happiness, heightened, focus, and ability to concentrate, a strong feeling of appreciation that you’re alive, a feeling of flow with the world around, you a pain-free existence, feeling completely refreshed, relaxation of body without muscle tension, a feeling of total serenity, and peacefulness, so in this study this is all the positive effects that we’re seeing and then of course a reduction of anxiety and fear and you know, we’ve used it a lot for trauma to my friend who had the float tank Center down in Texas. He had a lot of veterans that would come in with PTSD and they would get in a flow tank, and of course you can’t legally say cure, but let’s just say the PTSD was dissolving very rapidly with these guys, who if they heard a loud sound, for example, they would get freaked out because they were around explosions in war. This had calmed the amygdala, the fear center of the brain, enough to where they no longer had that for your response so to me, this is so cool. Now, some may ask, well why don’t you just get a flow tank in your house then you can just do it all the time, you know, I’m home so much now, I want to be out of my house, I don’t want to be home anymore so I like the idea of driving somewhere and having the 20 minutes of anticipation of going to visit a spa-like setting showering. They’re getting all clean and then having that 20 minutes of relaxed time by myself on the way back home. Now if you’re never at your house, maybe your story is different but for me, that’s why I like to go to a spa. I don’t want to deal with the maintenance of it, it’s expensive. I mean, you’re looking at ten grand to buy a flow tank versus sixty to seventy bucks to have one for an hour, you got salt water everywhere, that’s gonna be all over your floor. You’ve got to clean up, you’ve got a maintenance, it and focus on your water filtration system all the time, it’s just to me, buying one is just not something that’s worth it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally, and just a little correction, it’s creating whatever. Number one, is olfactory, so one, is the nose. Two is the eyes, that confuse them, and then in general, I’m seeing that it’s saying that. That number one cranial nerve, the olfactory does not plug into the parasympathetic nervous system, just an FYI, a little correction, but I’ve seen a lot of data where that nasal breathing does improve heart rate variability and does improve other markers of parasympathetic nervous system response, so I’m not sure if it’s just an anatomical thing, but it still may have an effect on the parasympathetic nervous system based on HRV and based on other brainwave data showing that you’re in a state of relaxation and healing and recovery, yeah, that makes sense, so the big nerves for parasympathetic are gonna be number three, which is gonna be the oculomotor, that’s the eyes, that’s the moving of the eyes. It’s gonna be obviously the vagus nerve, right, that’s number ten. That’s the big one that creeps throughout the whole entire body. We have number five, true general, which controls the face and then number seven, which controls the sensory on the face, and then nine, which controls the tongue, right. That’s why people say singing helps with parasympathetic or they’ll do tongue depressor or gargling because that works the number nine there and then of course number, 10 the vagus which same thing you’ll do the tongue depression in the singing for number 10 because they work the back of the palate as well and it creeps throughout the whole entire body, so number, so the vagus nerve is that parasympathetic branch and that really essentially creeps through your whole entire body like a spider web and it really works on promoting relaxation and I guarantee you, if we look a little bit more we’re gonna see the vagus nerve being upregulated with deep nasal breathing and then if you combine the magnesium salts in there and you decrease all that other sensory input, we’re really just driving a parasympathetic response and these types of therapies and you tell me if I you think I’m off a really great adjunct to a functional medicine program, they really help promote healing. They’re not gonna do it in and of itself, if you have infections or other stressors that aren’t being addressed or your diets poor it’s not going to be enough to overcome that, but it’s definitely a nice step in the right direction and maybe you can combine it with other healthy lifestyle factors and supplement, factors you’re really on the right direction heal.
Evan Brand: Yeah, I agree. I actually did a podcast this morning or it was a summit interview all about anxiety and the gut brain connection ,and I made the disclaimer because I was being interviewed for float tanks and the question, was the question that was presented to me was, well, how do float tanks help digestive problems and I said, well, hold on, you know, let me give the disclaimer that, yeah, float tanks may help calm the nerves and therefore calm the stomach, like, if you had irritable bowel syndrome or something like that, you know, when I had digestive issues and parasites and other problems and I would use a float tank, I would get some relief but I gave the disclaimer that look if you have gut bugs you still have gut box, you still got to get your testing done with your practitioner, you still got to get rid of h pylori, you still got to get rid of parasites. However, the stress on the system can be relieved by the float tank, so I just, the question was kind of like, assumed that the float tank would magically dissolve those problems, so I had to just tell the hosts, look, no, no, it doesn’t work that way. You still got to do the other work. I think a lot of therapies get, get that type of treatment where someone says, well, how does a massage help anxiety. Say, well it can, but you still, why’s the anxiety there is, it is, it something in the system creating anxiety. Like, we still have to work backwards to that and I think this is why so many people spend money on stuff but then they still need further help, it’s cuz that was a what do you always call it palliative care versus-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: (Cross talking.) Yep, exactly, yep, it totally can so I draw that line.
Evan Brand: So I would recommend, you know, start out to do an hour. You can do an hour float tank session. I prefer ninety minutes, because ninety minutes you really have that extra time to really settle down. I find that it takes me a good 15, 20 minutes to settle in and then 40 minutes or so is left to relax, that’s just not enough, so the 90 minute session allows you to really get out of your body and I’ve had out-of-body experiences, where literally, I’m looking back at myself in the float tank from a third-person perspective, right. I was just gone now not everybody can relax and I’ve only had a couple sessions like that where, maybe, I was relaxed enough to leave my body but it can be very, very mind-expanding, like, if you’re stuck in a rut and you, let’s say, you’re trying to write a book or you’re don’t know what to do about your marriage or you don’t know where to move or you don’t know what to do about your job, you know this is a good place where you can go and really gather all those thoughts and kind of run through your rolodex, if you will of all the thoughts on your mind and basically reorganize your stressors. As opposed to most people, all the stressors get interweaved and tangled and you can’t really break apart your stress because it’s all this bottle of stress, like when we work with clients, you and I always ask about stress, like what are the sources of stress ,but for so many people, becomes this tangled ball, but a flow tank a massage myofascial work, as you mentioned earlier, those things can help kind of detangle the stress and then you can identify, oh it’s stress about money or it’s stress about relationship or stress about my job or stress about my parents who are sick, you know, it could be a good tool to help recalibrate your I guess or allow you to analyze your stress, if that makes sense.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% I think it’s great. I mean, the more you can get that parasympathetic nervous system response down and you can be more into spective like that I think it really helps and it allows you to make better decisions the more your parasympathetic response and most people are in this chronic fight-or-flight, whether it’s from inflammation, whether it’s from blood sugar, the more fight-or-flight response you’re in, the more that sympathetic nervous system is activated. We have decreased blood flow and oxygenation to the frontal cortex. This is the neocortex, this is what allows us to have deeper thinking. The frontal cortex or the neocortex allows us to control poor decisions, we’re gonna make a bad action, we’re gonna say the wrong thing, we’re gonna do something physically that we’re gonna regret. The frontal cortex helps you basically prevent that action from happening. It allows you to look at consequences better and I think a lot of people, if the more sympathetic dominant they are the more their adrenals are incredibly stress on the cortisol and adrenaline side, you’re less likely to be able to control impulses. You’re less likely to look at the consequences of poor decisions so really important the more we can get that parasympathetic response going, the more our brain can look at outcomes better and help us make better decision which is really important.
Evan Brand: Yeah, we’ll think about our ancestors, they had a lot more time to be in that parasympathetic rest and digest right like the men were all hunting. They were in the woods, they’re in the fields, they’re hunting and looking for food. The women were socializing and hanging out with one another. Now you know if you’ve got two stay-at-home, mom who is just listening to our podcast, she’s socially isolated, so maybe we’re giving her some company. Hello, hopefully, we’re giving you some company. However, they’re still socially isolated, right, they’re not in their tribe anymore. In the men, you know, they’re stuck working and they’re not with their guys. They’re not with that tribe relaxing, so I think if we were to compare the amount of time our ancestors, let’s say five thousand years ago spent in parasympathetic versus today, I would say it’s completely flip-flopped. I would say it’s like 1% of the time people relax now where previously there was always relaxation built into the day because there wasn’t as many external sources you’re in the middle of the woods having a campfire cooking your elk and-
Evan Brand: That was it exactly. Well, glad that we at least kind of talked about some of the strategies. We can draw the line between palliative and root and if you’re working with a functional medicine practitioner or nutritionist that’s helping you get to the root cause of what’s going on adding, this therapy in, I think is excellent and I would recommend adding it in with some good box breathing, deep nasal breathing. Put your hand on your chest and your hand on your tummy, you want to make sure the bottom hand the tummy hand is what moves out when you breathe in and then back in when you breathe out and make sure, this top hand the chest hand, if anyone’s listening there’s a video YouTube video available in the description, make sure the top hands are not moving and make sure the bottom hands moving these are just really, really simple things you can do and then also keeping good alignment as well, I mean when you’re floating, it’s easier to keep good alignment cuz you, gravity’s like you know significantly less, it’s 2 to 3 X less when you’re already laying horizontal in the water and the water perfectly kind of, you know, comforts your body as well, which is great. This would be simpler.
Evan Brand: This would be something good for pregnant women as well, you know, if you’ve got that pregnancy belly growing, you know, a lot of women may report low back pain or just feeling uncomfortable with the growing baby and so I do recommend pregnant women use float tanks as well. I’ve had some women that where I was in the float tank center in Texas and then I would see a couple pregnant women come out, they always reported that they felt more connected to their baby and it was almost this sort of prenatal connection that they had to the baby while they were in there they said that they felt like they were almost in the womb with the baby so it was a really good emotional bonding experience too and of course it takes the weight off of you ,so women out there with pregnant bellies there you go, go try it out I think it could be very therapeutic.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent Evan, well anything else you want to mention today.
Evan Brand: I would just tell people do some Googling. Go find a place, look for the ocean float room if you can, there’s nothing wrong with the smaller tanks ,there’s nothing wrong with the clamshell style float tanks, they’re still good but for the best experience, the bigger ,the better, and so if you can find a place where you can fully extend your arms. Your arms are not gonna hit the walls you can just go and do gymnastics in there. You’re gonna feel great and make sure you’re still addressing the root cause though if you’ve got an anxiety problem, you can’t sleep, you’ve got joint pain, you’ve got arthritis, which some people wrote about in the comments. Here you know you’ve gotta find the root cause things, this may help but there’s a reason so feel free to reach out to Justin, his website is justinhealth.com. He works with people all around the world, so it doesn’t matter where you’re listening, you can get help and if you want to reach out to me, my site is evanbrand.com, we look forward to helping you. Wwe are very blessed to be able to help people and to put this in the toolbox because your doctor down the street, they don’t know anything about flow tanks so you’re never gonna get recommended that if you have pain, you’re gonna get a painkiller, if you have anxiety you’re gonna get an anti-anxiety med, we say no, that’s not the root cause it’s not a deficiency of pharmaceuticals.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly then we’ll give our friend a plug down in Austin. He’s over at the Zero Gravity Institute. I’ve gone there many times, is that, what, it’s zero gravity, right?
Evan Brand: Yes, Kevin, hello Kevin, if you, I talk to Kevin, like I don’t know a year ago and he and he’s like, man, you know he’s like you, know I still listen to every episode of your podcast, don’t you, and I’m like, oh great, so Kevin if you’re listening, hello, thank you so much, I hope you’re doing well and I miss floating out there at your place. It’s verym very awesome and high-tech, so go visit him if you’re in Austin, Texas.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah zerogravityinstitute.com, we’ll put it in the show notes if you go in there and let them know that we referred you guys in, and I hope you guys enjoy it and just kind of put this as one other tool in your metabolic toolbox to improve your health and get you guys functioning as optimally as possible.
Evan Brand: Good chat, take care.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Evan, have a good one. You guys take care and also I’ll be back for a live Q&A in just a bit , so if you guys want to hang out maybe thirty minutes to an hour, I’ll be back to answer some questions and to dive deeper in to help you guys improve your health. You guys take care, we’ll talk soon. See you later, bye.
Evan Brand: Bye.
Magnesium Benefits and Magnesium Deficiency – Podcast # 128
Join Dr. Justin Marchegiani and Evan Brand as they talk about Magnesium – its importance and reasons for deficiency. Listen to them and learn the symptoms and implications of not having enough magnesium in our health.
Discover Magnesium Threonate and Magnesium Taurate as the listeners pose questions about it. Explore the different sources of magnesium that can be found in natural sources, whether food or supplement. And know about the changes that you can make in your lifestyle that will have an impact on magnesium and in turn, bring positive effects to your health.
In this episode, we cover:
1:45 Importance of Magnesium
3:10 Magnesium Deficiency Symptoms
6:27 Magnesium Threonate
8:38 Magnesium Taurate
15:57 Top Ten Food Sources of Magnesium
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And we’re live on Youtube and we are live on Facebook. Evan, my man, we’re back. Whats going on, man?
Evan Brand: How you doing? Feels like uh just– yesterday we were doing this.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Its still a live Q&A. Just a few minutes ago, I appreciate you uh – gracing us with your presence at the inn.
Evan Brand: How did that go? What did you do? You just went in there, and you just said, “Hey, I’m here to ask – uh answer questions, start asking” and that was it?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. We gotta start on a little Impromptu Functional Medicine Club, you know. Instead of doing comedy and skits, we just do our functional medicine info.
Evan Brand: I agree.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It would make us look better, what do you think?
Evan Brand: I agree. Let’s do it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Cool man. Well, I’m live on Facebook here. You’re not gonna be able to hear Evan’s beautiful voice on YouTube. So I’ll see if we can a link below. You can also go to YouTube.com/justinhealth and I’ll try to put a up on here, right now so people can access that information if they are ready to go over there. So Evan, why don’t chat for a minute about uh –magnesium.
Evan Brand: Yes. This is huge and we’ve gotta give credit where credit is due. And so Morley Robbins from gotmag.org I’m not quite sure how that worked if he founded it or what, but the magnesium advocacy group, it’s just an incredible source of information about magnesium-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely.
Evan Brand: How big of an issue is magnesium deficiency; Why is magnesium deficiency happening; why is this so much more prevalent in the modern world; how can you test for your status; and what is your protocol; how do you restore magnesium and what type of symptoms would someone listening be experiencing if you were deficient. That’s what we want to cover today – together today.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. Well magnesium over 1000 in enzymatic roles in the body, really important as a muscle relaxer; really important for blood sugar handling; uhm – really important just to – for anabolic Krebs cycle for helping to reduce the brain inflammation. So many different things. The more stressed your under, the more you’re actually gonna burned through magnesium. The more you eat sugar, right? The more refined sugar, the more –magnesium’s the cofactor for metabolising sugar; so high sugar diets and high stressed diets are one of the major ways you’re gonna deplete magnesium. Number one, you deplete it because you’re burning it out more to – to process it. Two, for stress, you’re gonna dump more of it in the kidneys into the urine. And then number three, if you’re busy eating crappy food, you are not getting magnesium rich foods, leafy greans and such in your diet and boost up your magnesium.
Evan Brand: Yeah, let’s over a couple of statistics here. In terms of magnesium deficiency statistics, two out of every three Americans-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.
Evan Brand: -do not consume even the RDA from magnesium, which is 500 mg a day. A lot of times the RDA’s are crap and we typically like people above those, but even that, people are not meeting that 500 mg. And then for those headed to the hospital, uhm – 80% of patients in an ICU setting are considered magnesium deficient.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow.
Evan Brand: So that’s pretty interesting. There in the wait- Morely kinda breaks down the his uh –magnesium deficiency symptom. And he’s got tons of scientific literature on this, too. He’s got your uh – mild symptoms such as like food cravings for sugar, headaches, hiccups, hyper-, hypoglycemia, irritability, loss of appetite, mood swings, muscle cramps, nausea, and nervousness, poor memory, uh – weakness and then you can go into the really, really big magnesium issues like uhm – A fib, which is what my grandmother’s got – cardiac atrial fibrillation. You’ve got congestive heart failure; you’ve got obesity; you’ve got renal failure; you’ve got stroke; you’ve got alcoholism, which makes sense; you’ve got celiac disease linked; you’ve got chronic kidney disease; concussions; depression; failure to thrive. I mean we could just list a thousand. Even PMS, I mean, we could list a thousand and bore people but I think a lot of those symptoms will probably hit home from many people listening.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, 100%. And again, magnesium is super important, especially like in today’s day and age of anxiety, right? And mood issues, one of the first things that we’re reaching for with mood, is like a benzodiazepine or like an antidepressant. And one of things that you can do to kinda like wind down and relax your nervous system and kinda relax your stress handling systems, is up to magnesium. That can make such a huge benefit.
Evan Brand: Well, remember that one night, I think it was when I was about to move back to Kentucky and I was stressed out, we had the house all packed up in Austin, I called you, I’m like, “Yo, my heart is 5000 beats a minute.”
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.
Evan Brand: This is crazy. And you go, “Oh, man, don’t worry just do a gram of magnesium.” I’m like, “Alright, I’m going for it.” I did a gram of magnesium and things slowly came back down to normal. So, you know, I’ve personally experience the benefits of magnesium. And you and I use it in some form, typically with all of our clients. Even if it’s just a uh – maintenance dose, so whether we’re trying to do a therapeutic intervention, which we can talk. Either way, we’ve typically got everyone on some sort of magnesium somewhere.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Whether it’s in our multi- support and typically the big one’s that I like, right? I like a good magnesium malate because it interplays with the Krebs cycle as well. And it’s chelated to an amino acid malate.
Evan Brand: Yeah, its pretty cheap, too, right?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. It’s pretty affordable. I mean that and glycinate are really good. They’re very well absorbed. Uh – and they’re also gonna help with the Krebs cycle, which – that’s gonna help the blood sugar issues; it’s gonna help with energy issues; and it’s gonna help with stress and relaxation. That’s a good one. Magnesium citrates, commonly in like uh – a natural calm, which is really good. I typically do a little bit of mag citrate at night in a powder form and I mix it with collagen, so it’s kinda like – almost like my own little magnesium glycinate coz I’m taking it with all the glycine and collagen. And l like that for bed for hour and hour of relaxation.
Evan Brand: Yeah. Most of our audience is pretty advanced but it is worth mentioning that if you are thinking of picking up a magnesium supplement, if you go to Walmart or Target or just your typical store to get magnesium, you’re likely gonna end up getting magnesium oxide, which has a 4% absorption rate. And typically there’s gonna be tons and tons of fillers, gluten, rice, other types of stuff in there. And so we only use professional grade products in our lines and then also, you know, we will refer out to other professional lines as needed.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. We got in some questions on a Mag Threonate here. A Mag Threonate, again, that’s gonna be really good especially if there’s some significant malabsorption issues. It helps with healthy brain inflammation, so taking it transdermally can help coz it can cross the blood-brain barrier. And if there’s like a lot of brain inflammation, and we’ll see that like in organic acid test. We’ll see an elevated – quinolinate or we’ll see an elevation in picolinate – picolinic acid. And that will be a big sign for increasing magnesium and if we have kids that are like autistic, or a lot of gut issues, or people can’t swallow pills, the transdermal’s great. I did flow tank, man. I did a flow tank over the weekend. So I was in 1200 pounds of magnesium salts. So after I came out of outside, it’s like shallow and super relaxed.
Evan Brand: Where did you go? Did you go to my friend zero gravity, over there at Manchaka? Or where did you go?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That zero gravity, man. How did you know?
Evan Brand: Well, coz Kevin – I know Kevin. He’s been on my podcast three times – the owner.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, I gotta have him on my podcast. That’s awesome.
Evan Brand: Yeah. He’s in – he’s in Austin. You guys can do an in-person podcast, if you wanted.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, I love it. I’m definitely excited, man. I love it. I love it.
Evan Brand: Let me connect you guys right now, then.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Let’s do it. Live in the flesh.
Evan Brand: Alright. So uh – I did wanna mention about Threonate coz I saw there was a question about it because I discussed it in my latest video, on my YouTube channel – my top 12 ways of reducing anxiety. And I love Threonate. So I have a formula called, Calm Clarity, and that’s what I use for people. And there’s a lot of cool research about Threonate specifically for people with PTSD. So I do have some veterans that I have used the Threonate with them and they say that it seriously works. And even if they’re not veterans, if they just experience trauma, it does an amazing stuff gain, the magnesium into the brain, much more than just getting it into the gut.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I mean that’s gets really good stuff. In my line, we have Magnesium Supreme. It’s what I used and that’s the magnesium malate. Uh – and I’m doing an lot of Krebs cycle uhm – support prgoram. I find a lot of people with Krebs Cycle or mitochondrial issues. They do really well uh – the magnesium uhm – malate just because of the uh – Krebs cycle.
Evan Brand: Yup. That’s great.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So looking at other things here, we got – so my buddy, Steve, here on Facebook wants to talk about Magnesium Taurate for blood pressue issues. He wants to know is there mag uh – glycinate and taurate. Well, outside of just the obvious, that glycine is amino acid and taurine is an amino acid. So they’re just bound to different amino acids. I know glycinate has phenomenal absorption. In the research, it’s like 90+ percent get absorbed. What’s your take on magnesium Taurate, Evan?
Evan Brand: I like Taurate, but I haven’t used it as much as glycinate, the malates, citrates, or the threonates. Doesn’t mean it’s not as good, I just haven’t had as much hands on experience with it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I just don’t have a ton of experience with it, Steve – but I mean, binding it to an amino acid is good if you’re getting a good clinical effect, let us know in the chat window. We’d love to hear that. But I’m definitely more biased towards a gycinate and malate but in the end, I’ll let the clinical outcome guide the ship.
Evan Brand: Agreed. That’s the best answer.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. Anything else, Evan, you wanna address? Like I gotta jump on another podcast here in a few uh – with our friend here, Kevin over at relive your bodies that will be – go on. Anything else you wanna – we wanna knock down here, in this quick little magnesium podcast.
Evan Brand: Epsom Salt Baths are great. They’re very easy. The Float tanks are gonna be better, though. And you’re gonna spend a lot of money on Epsom Salt if you’re trying to even match something that would be therapeutic. So, look up floatationlocations.com, and you can check out – type in your zipcode or if you’re out of the United States, type in your postal code and you can actually find float centers that are located near you. And typically you’re gonna spend about 60-75 bucks per hour, but it’s the best hour of your life. And when you come out, you’re gonna feel like you’ve been reborn.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Highly recommended, especially the whole sensory deprivation aspect where you open your eyes and you just don’t know if you’re asleep or awake. That’s pretty crazy. It has a big effect on relaxation. I may even go tonight, man. They’re open at 10 o’clock. I may –
Evan Brand: I know. Now, was that your first? First float?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: First float. Loved it.
Evan Brand: Are you serious?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Loved it.
Evan Brand: Oh, my god.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: First float.
Evan Brand: So I did my first float back in 2013. That was when I actually live flew into go to the Paleo f(x) for the first time and that center wasn’t open. I went to actually this little house. It was like a massage studio and they happen to have one of the small float tanks in there. And I had an out of body experience. I was basically looking at myself from a third . I’ve had some insane experience. There’s one time at Kevin’s facility, I visited Egypt during my float session. Like I was sitting on a pyramid overlooking the Nile River as it used to flow in Egypt, and then I snapped back into my body and I was, “huh” It was unbelievable. So yeah, float tanks are just unreal. We can do a whole show on it. Uh – Robert said, “What if taking magnesium causes slight nausea?” It think that – with citrate. Do you have any say on that, Justin, in terms of nausea and magnesium? I think it possibly could depend on what you’re getting. Coz if you are doing the natural calm, and you don’t feel well with the Stevia, maybe that’s part of it and not the magnesium itself. What do you think?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Regarding that piece, if you take too much magnesium, especially like uh – a magnesium citrate or oxide, it will create bowel flow, it will help – it’s a natural laxative, right? Magnesium oxide is actually a pretty good laxative; not good for absorption, but good for moving the bowels. Same with citrate – citrate is better for absorption but also good for moving the bowels. That could help move the bowels a bit which is excellent. Uhm – but again, if you move the bowels too much, or if you’re kinda in between, if you don’t get enough to move the bowels, if you don’t get enough to move the bowels, you can just kinda feel like your stomach in knots a little bit, and your stool is a little loose, so you just may be in that in between magnesium tolerance dosage. What do you think?
Evan Brand: Yeah. That, I agree with you. Uh – Riley said, “Please talk more about Magnesium Threonate.” Okay, I’ll tell you a couple of things here. Uhm – there was a study in the Journal of Neurosciences 2011 that suggest an enhancement of plasticity in brain regions such as the prefrontal cortex and/or the hippocampus with the use of uh – Magnesium L- Threonate. Also, the fear memory, without erasing the original fear memory, so this is like the trauma use. There is also another part, there is another piece of research here that shows that it can increase learning ability, working memory, short and long-term memory. And then also – let’s see, there’s one other thing. It will mediate the effects of exposure to stress on memory. And so basically take 2 grams for maintenance but if you’ve got memory loss, or other issues then you’re gonna 3 or 4 grams of the Threonate.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I love it. It’s great.
Evan Brand: There you go.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Magnesium is excellent. It’s a natural beta-blocker as well. Uhm –part of the receptors on the beta cells of the heart, they get stimulated by calcium, right? And magnesium and calcium kinda have this natural ratio and magnesium’s gonna come in there and block the beta receptors of the heart. So it decreases that – that stimulation. So that helps to relax the heart a little bit. And if the sympathetics kinda in overdrive, it will help bring that blood pressure down naturally, too, which is really cool.
Evan Brand: Ah. I love it. Okay. So before somebody gets in some type of ,crazy hard drug, it is possible that they could get on some magnesium first.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Plus uhm the medication into the uhm – that medication and that medication, Foxglove is a natural herb for the medication that helps kinda reduce stroke, fall and reduce the heart pumping. That medication is a natural herb called Foxglove. So people, just starting low dose, Foxglove, if you’re having a lot of overly heart stimulation, like your heart is beating out of your chest, you know. First make sure you don’t have a heart attack, right? That’s number one. Rule that out by your conventional medical doctor. But uh – Foxglove and magnesium can really help kinda relax the heart a bit.
Evan Brand: You oughta chat with uh – Dr. Cawin, too. We talked about Ouabain. Ouabain it’s like uh – it’s like an ancient medicine but it’s used for heart attacks. And he said it should be basically standard care are in all uhm – ambulances. When they go to pick up someone that could potentially be having a heart attack, he says Ouabain should be on board on every ambulance in the world and it would save a lof of lives.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: What is that exactly?
Evan Brand: I believe it’s some type of – I wanna say, it’s some type of plant. The spelling of it is really weird. It’s like –
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s not Wobenzym, right? You’re saying something else?
Evan Brand: That’s correct. I’m saying Ouabain. It’s O-U-A-B-A-I-N. It’s also known as Strophanthin. And if you look it up, it was uh – traditionally use as an aero poison in Eastern Africa for hunting and warfare. But in lower doses, it can be used medically.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Ouabain.
Evan Brand: Yeah, Ouabain.Yes. So that’s a trip but, uh – it is some type of plant. It’s uh – Strophantin, that’s what it is.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Almost as good as when you say matcha.
Evan Brand: You like when I say “matcha” ?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Matcha tea. I love it. Love it. Very cool. It’s like word candy, man.
Evan Brand: Yes, it is. Well if there’s any question about magnesium, let us know. But otherwise, this is pretty straightforward. Modern life depletes magnesium, you have to replenish. I like float tanks. I like magnesium oil. Justin and I both use magnesium supplementally.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.
Evan Brand: We use it with our clients, too. So, also get your leafy, green vegetables, too, though. I mean that’s a good maintenance way, too.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I mean let’s go over the top ten foods real quick. Let’s just make sure everyone knows what’s the top 10. I mean, off the bat, just your leafy green are gonna be excellent.
Evan Brand: Yup.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Your kale, your spinach, your leafy greens are just gonna be absolutely great. I mean if you look outside of the leafy greens, what else we have for magnesium? We have nuts and seeds. Squash and pumpkin seeds are gonna be the absolute highest. Fish is gonna be right there, in number three. Uhm, beans and lentils – again, uh – just be careful with that, right? White beans and French beans and Black eyed beans and kidney beans will be the best – Chickpeas as well. Again, if you’re kinda Paleo or you’re having some issues with the legumes, and you wanna stay away from that, uh – whole-grain, brown rice, but we’re not gonna make a recommendation there because it’s – grains are creating any malabsorption or gut irritation, you’re not gonna absorb the magnesium, anyway. Plus there’s lectins and phytates in there that will bind it up. So even though it says it’s good, the question is, “Do you actually absorb it?” And I will put a – a nay on that one.
Evan Brand: Agreed.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Avocados are really excellent. Uhm – litle bit of bananas. Remember, like we’re talking about magnesium here. People think – when I say, bananas, what nutrient do you think of?
Evan Brand: Potassium
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Bananas – bananas.
Evan Brand: Potassium. Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. But avocados have twice the amount of potassium –
Evan Brand: I know.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: – than bananas do.
Evan Brand: I know. How much does it – do you have any type of numbers in front of you, like how many milligrams of magnesium or – in one avocado, for example like a husk?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. So uhm – 27 milligrams in a hundred grams per banana. And then in an avocado, it’s about uh – 29. So just a little bit more.
Evan Brand: And that’s for a 100 grams avocado. I don’t know how much is a 100 grams. I mean how many grams are in one full avocado?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Typically, about 3.3 ounces is a 100 gram. So probably about 1 avocado, maybe a little more.
Evan Brand: I mean I’ve had some avocados. I feel like they’re a pound.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I know.
Evan Brand: It’s gonna be –
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I know. So – Just do the math, you know, figure out what 3.3 ounces is. It’s like the medium kinda husk avocado uhm – again, you’re probably okay. And again, we’re taking out the outer coating and the big uh – seed in the middle.
Evan Brand: Right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, anything else we wanna hit there, so far?
Evan Brand: I don’t think so. Pumpkin seeds are great. I’m a huge fan of pumpkin seeds. Uhm, what about sunflower or kernels? Were those on the list at all?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhm – sunflower, kernels were not but we did have the pumpkin and squash seed. So- I’ll give you the run down. Uh – sesame, brazil, almonds, cashews, pinenuts, mixed nuts, peanuts, pecans and walnuts. In that exact order. Outside of squash and pumkin being number one and two.
Evan Brand: I’m a huge fan of walnuts, too. Put a little cinnamon on those bad boys, uhm.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it. Love it. Excellent. And then obviously, uhm – dark chocolate at the end, great source of magnesium. Why the women at their period time crave dark chocolate? Very high source of magnesium. And again, if you’re choosing high dark chocolate, high cacao rate, you’re gonna get more cacao, more dark chocolate without the extra sugar and berry if it’s gonna be a milk chocolate. So try to reach for higher quality. Endangered species, 88%. Cobber on the front, uh Lindt. Any other good brands you like?
Evan Brand: So the endangered species is good. I love what they’re doing to save these animals, but they’re not organic. Trader Joe’s.Trader Joe’s has an organic bar. Get this – three ingredients, it’s 2.99 for the bar, I believe it’s 72%. And it’s coco cacao butter and sugar.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s nice. That’s good. But for endangered species, they are GMO and they are certified gluten-free. So –
Evan Brand: They’re GMO free?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: They’re GMO free, at least and they’re certified gluten – So that’s. And you know, you get two good things ideally if we could have the certified organic that’d be better.They do have one but it’s like a 75%. So you could go down to the 75 and get it that and what will you get, you’d get a little bit more sugar your bucks there.
Evan Brand: So what do you got in your fridge? You got 88 in there?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 88.
Evan Brand: Nice.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 88. Absolutely, man. And I also got a couple of the KIND bars, too. There’s a 5 uh – 4 grams of sugar the uh – the uh – Madagascar Vanilla. Love those.
Evan Brand: That sounds good. Reviews help. They very, very much help. So go to uh – Beyond Wellness Radio on iTunes. That’s where Justin’s podcast is housed. Put a revie there. I mean, it takes a few minutes and you’re probably just gonna ignore me because just like when a pop up comes up on your phone and this is, “Hey, do you love this app review?” And you just click, “No, thanks” Don’t “no thanks” me. Please review Beyond Wellness on iTunes and notjustpaleo, too. And – and review it. It takes literally two minutes but when you do that, what it does is keeps us in the top 100 of health. So that way we’re beating out Jillian Michaels which is the exercise more, eat less approach. And I don’t want to be number one on the – on the rankings. We want functional medicine at the top of the charts because this is with the masses needs. So the review helps us to do that.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, by the way, yeah – people Facebook, give us a review, notjustpaleo.com and justinhealth.com Click on the podcast link, iTunes review. Also you just mentioned, biggest loser people like Jillian Michael’s. Bob Harper just had a heart attack last week.
Evan Brand: Tell people about that if they didn’t hear. Just give –
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. So, Bob Harper was Jillian Michael’s side kick. They’re on the biggest loser and uhm – you know, I like the guy – his personality, pretty cool guy. But again, they’re kinda recommending this exercise more, eat less low-calorie, whole grain, low-fat kinda mind set. No emph – no emphasis on uhm – nutrient quality; no emphasis on inflammatory nutrients; no emphasis on toxins and organic foods. And again, just do more exercise, more oxidative stress, not good fats, it’s not healthy animal products. The guy gets a heart attack. I mean, maybe he’s not eating that way, but that’s the way he’s suggesting a lot of the contestants to eat. And the guy’s in his 40’s. You shouldn’t be getting a heart attack looking like as he does in his 40’s. Again, fit and healthy are two different things, though.
Evan Brand: Yes, so let me give a couple of more notes so people understand the insanity of this. I mean as you mentioned, he’s the host of the show.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: On TV that’s getting broadcast to millions of people. Yeah, he looks okay, like if you look at his uh – his picture, there’s a couple article where he posts like an Instagram picture of him. He looks okay externally. I mean the guy is not like overweight. But internally, it could be a whole different show. So –
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.
Evan Brand: He was working out at a New York City gym, and he collapsed, and he was unconscious in hospital for two days.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Crazy.
Evan Brand: So, there you go. And he’s a called, fitness expert. I’m sorry if my fitness expert who’s young has a heart attack. Unless there was some other type of genetic or you know –
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Heart Valve issue or some kind of abnormality in the heart valve at birth that you didn’t know about, I mean –
Evan Brand: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: This guy is pushing the diet that we don’t agree with and more than likely getting excessive oxidative stress with the exercise piece to go in there. So yeah, keep that in mind. And lots of the stress, that’s the stress component that will cause you to pee out more magnesium and Steve, 5.9 for your red blood cell magnesium is perfect. I like five and above. And the medication is the Digitalis. Digitalis is the uh – medication that is the uh – synthetic version of Foxglove that helps reduce stroke volume.
Evan Brand: And of course, we do want him – we wish the guy a speedy recovery. But man, if you say you’re a fitness expert and you’re pushing a low-fat more exercise approach, man, that’s not good. That’s not good. So we like exercise. We both do it, but it’s the dose make the poison and the intensity makes the poison, too. And those are two levers that we adjust based on clinical symptoms and lab results.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: A 100%. Anything else here, Evan, you wanna address? I gotta jump on another podcast. We’re on a podcast cycle here today. Giving them the question you wanna hit real quick?
Evan Brand: No. That’s it, man. Lets wrap it up.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Alright. Give us 5 star reviews and we’ll be back more frequently and more questions with more content and more great guests. We’re here for you guys.
Evan Brand: Take Care.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Evan, my man it’s been real – You take care.
Evan Brand: Bye.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Bye.