Enzyme Therapy and Cancer – Getting To The Root Cause of Cancer – Dr. Linda Isaacs | Podcast #383
In this video, Dr. Justin and Dr. Linda discuss an educational and informative discussion about enzyme therapy and its relationship to cancer. In addition, she highlights her close connection to the late Dr. Nicholas Gonzalez, a former doctor in New York City and a follower of Dr. William Donald Kelly’s work.
The podcast covers various essential topics related to cancer and alternative therapies. Dr. Isaacs delves into metabolic types and how different individuals may require other treatment approaches. She also touches upon the impact of processed sugar, processed foods, pesticides, and xenoestrogens on cancer growth. Dr. Isaacs emphasizes the need to treat cancer holistically and believes that these environmental elements might substantially impact the development of cancer.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani
In this episode, we cover:
04:08 – Views on Carbs and Fats Leading to Cancer
08:32 – Type of Enzymes for Cancer Treatment
14:02 – Potential Root Causes for Cancer
19:51 – When to check if it is a Gut Problem
22:52 – Preventing the Side Effects of Chemotherapy
33:11 – Chemotherapy Standard Care and Managing Side Effects
39:15 – Antioxidants Support
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani, excited for today’s podcast. I have Dr. Linda Isaacs here, really excited to chat with her today. She’s from Austin as well, and we’re going to be diving into the topic of cancer and enzyme therapy. Dr. Linda, welcome to the podcast. How are you doing?
Dr. Linda Isaacs: I’m doing good! Thank you so much for inviting me. I’m really glad to be here.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent! Very nice to have you! So, I know your background is you specialize in cancer, natural cancer therapies. I know you can be connected for, I think, at least 10 or 20 years with Dr. Nicholas Gonzalez, the former late Dr. Nicholas Gonzalez, in the New York City area. I know he passed, what 2017? It’s been that long ago?
Dr. Linda Isaacs: 2015 actually.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: ‘15? It was a heart issue wasn’t it?
Dr. Linda Isaacs: Well, we don’t really know what happened, but he’s, he did a full day’s, day of work and then went home and passed away suddenly.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh my gosh!
Dr. Linda Isaacs: But it’s not really clear what exactly happened. But yes, he and I worked together for many years. In fact, I met him when I was in medical school when I was a third-year medical student. I was assigned to an internal medicine team for my clinical rotation and he was the intern. And he was actually engaged in doing research at the same time. Just goes to show how devoted he was because most people aren’t trying to do research when they’re medical intern.
But he was looking into the work of William Donald Kelly our predecessor, with this type of treatment.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wasn’t he a dentist as well, Kelly?
Dr. Linda Isaacs: Yeah, Dr. Kelly was a dentist, an orthodontist by training and he had kind of an academic interest in nutrition. In other words, he thought about it, read about it, didn’t do it, until he himself got sick. And then, he put together a treatment protocol for himself and when he got better people started coming to him, to not to get their teeth straightened but to get their cancer straightened out.
And so he wound up, in effect, turning into an alternative cancer practitioner and then Nick went, and went through his files and found a lot of amazing cases told me about it that’s how I wound up getting into this line of work.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow and then were you working with Dr. Gonzalez’s last day?
Dr. Linda Isaacs: I’m sorry?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You said he was working that day and then he went home and he passed away. Were you able to work with him that last day he was there too?
Dr. Linda Isaacs: I was not physically in the office that day because I had just moved into a new apartment but the last communication I had with him was actually him congratulating me about an article that I got published and you know it, I obviously treasured that email. But it was totally sudden you know, he was at work that day, yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow yeah, the first, I think, at first I came across Dr. Nicholas Gonzalez, was in a Gary Knoll documentary in the in the early 2000s. He was talking about enzyme therapy there and I think he was also interviewed in Suzanne Summer’s book Knockout, which was really interesting and that’s where kind of the enzyme therapies were really brought to my forefront.
Also, I think he was connected, I think Dr William Kelly may have gotten him into the metabolic-typing diet and he was doing a lot of metabolic typing on patients as well. Does that ring a bell?
Dr. Linda Isaacs: Oh, absolutely! That’s a big part of the work that we do as well. I still use that general concept, so yes. Dr. Kelly had, you know, through clinical observation, noticed that not all of his patients needed the same thing, and that’s something that I continue to use as well.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, so with metabolic typing, you kind of have your slow oxidizer, your mix, and your fast oxidizer, right? Essentially, a protein-type in between, kind of like, zone-type and like more of a carb-type, right?
Dr. Linda Isaacs: That’s correct, I tend to use more about autonomic physiology and oxidizing concept, but yes, that’s the general idea that different people need different things, absolutely.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Do you find more of the cancer patients tend to be more like protein types, where there are, maybe too much carbohydrate, maybe the glucose is converting and maybe as a fuel source for cancer? Do you see that more in today’s society? Not enough protein and good fats?
Dr. Linda Isaacs: Well, I certainly think fats, you know, good fats are important for a lot of people. You know, there’s been this whole craze for the last 30 to 40 years of using all kinds of junk fats, which is not good for anybody. But most types of cancers actually go more on the vegetarian side, and the carcinomas, which would fit into, you know, breast cancer, colon cancer, pancreatic, prostate, the major cancers.
The ones that we feel are more carnivorous are the blood disorders like Leukemia, Lymphoma, Myeloma those types. Those are the ones that I’m more likely to put on a meat diet.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, interesting, because you see a lot of the pet scans, right? The visual imagery where you’re giving radioactive glucose, so it seems like, even conventional medicine kind of has an idea that, “Hey, we’re going to give this radioactive solution and we’re going to see where it goes.” And so, if you were to look at the big foods today, I mean do you feel like processed sugar is an issue? Do you feel like pesticides and a lot of the GMO in the foods are also driving cancer growth? What other aspects in the food do you think are factors?
Dr. Linda Isaacs: Well, I certainly think that processed sugar and processed foods in general are not good for anybody. And pesticides, you all of those xenoestrogens as they’re called, the molecules in the environment that function like estrogens, all of those things are not at all good for us. I think they can cause one type of problem in one person in a different type of problem in another, but they’re not good for anybody.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, if I have someone like, on a diet, they’re eating like let’s say some grass-fed meat and they’re eating some good healthy fat within the meat, maybe coconut oil, things like that, good health and they’re avoiding the excess omega-6. How important is that little bit of extra carbohydrate for some like, could they do some squash or sweet potato? Or for some cancers, is that even too much and could set them over the edge? How strict do you have to be with some of these recommendations if their overall diet is really clean?
Dr. Linda Isaacs: Well, see the the issue for me is that, I don’t think that sugar or natural sugars are going to be, or natural starches, are going to be the make a root issue for cancer. You know, again, it just sort of depends on how metabolically unhealthy somebody is but I personally believe that the real root issue is a lack of pancreatic enzymes and so that’s where I give people a lot of enzymes.
You know I have people that are alive and well and doing great years out who were eating natural sugars and natural carbs and drinking carrot juice and you know all of the things that somebody that’s a real advocate of the ketogenic diet would say is not a good idea. And so, it’s just not really my focus. I don’t put anybody on a diet that’s restrictive. It starts to get really difficult to know what what to eat, especially if you’re talking about somebody that shouldn’t be on a lot of protein. Well then, if they’re not going to eat protein and they’re not going to eat carbs, well then, what are they going to eat?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, that’s, in fact right.
Dr. Linda Isaacs: A buttered avocado? You know, I just don’t see
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right! Exactly!
Dr. Linda Isaacs: Not feasible.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I remember an interview that Dr. Gonzalez did, I think it was in 2010, with Dr. Mercola, and it was right after the passing of Steve Jobs. And I remember vaguely he was making the connection because I think Jobs was a known fruititarian. He was in the in the 80s, it was very culty at Apple where like, “If you weren’t a fruititarian, you weren’t accepted!”, right?
And so, he was kind of making the connection of, “Hey, the beta cells of the pancreas are really important for making insulin”, but I think is it the out, no? I think, it’s the, that’s also could wear down potentially the exocrine function of the pancreas, making enzymes as well. Any connection with the excess insulin from the carbs could impact negatively the exocrine pancreatic enzyme output?
Dr. Linda Isaacs: I don’t know, maybe, it’s not something I’ve really thought about. I suppose that could be possible. You know, I do believe that something happens for some people that they’re not making enough of the pancreatic enzymes whether that’s just getting older or whether that’s, you know, some of the like a byproduct of all the metabolic consequences that come with being overweight and Insulin resistant. Not really sure, it’s a good question.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, let’s dive into some of the enzymes. So, I mean, obviously, there’s different kinds that are out there. We have, you know, your proteolytic, your amylase, your carbohydrate base, your lipase. Obviously, there’s some that are enteric coated, you have like your lumbrokinase, your sera peptidase. What type of enzymes do you like, and what levels?
Dr. Linda Isaacs: The enzymes that I use with cancer patients are actually just bottom line freeze-dried pancreas in a capsule. They’re not and there is a little bit of an activation process that’s done but there’s some debate as to whether the truly active thing with cancer is the proteolytic, that means, protein dissolving, proteolytic enzymes or whether it’s actually the precursor form for those proteolytic enzymes.
Because when the enzymes are sitting there in the pancreas, they’re actually what are called pro-enzymes they’re not quite active because if they were active they would chew up the pancreas and that’s no good. That’s actually very bad if that happens. And so, they come as this packaged form, a precursor form, but there are some scientific studies that would suggest that that’s actually what’s active against cancer and not the truly activated enzymes. So, by just using freeze-dried pancreas, we’re getting quite a lot of the enzymes that are available actually in the precursor form, that’s what we did.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting, so you do like a pancreatic, like a proto morphogen type of thing? Like a glandular extract?
Dr. Linda Isaacs: No, it’s just freeze-dried meat in effect. It’s with everything intact, fat and everything. You know, there’s some reasons to believe that the fat may actually stabilize the enzymes. Those proto morphogens, I must admit, I’m not completely familiar with exactly how they’re processed, but I believe that it’s a salt precipitate, which means that they mince up the organ and then they mix it into a salt solution and then see what settles out.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I’m pretty sure that’s it.
Dr. Linda Isaacs: …removed some of the fats, yeah. This, what we’re using is a lot simpler, and it’s, you know, everything in the organ is, in effect, in the glandular.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s great, so you’re getting like a full ancestral type of support, and is there a certain supplement company do you like for the glandular, specifically? I know Dr Gonzalez, I think has mentioned Standard Process, there’s other ones out there.
Dr. Linda Isaacs: The product that I use, the closest thing that’s commercially available is made by Allergy Research Group, which also sells under the label Nutricology. And it’s called Pancreas, so that’s, there’s a small company that only sells to my patients that I mainly use by the Allergy Research Group product is available commercially.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s great and then what kind of doses are you using? Are you spreading it throughout the day and does it matter if it’s empty stomach when you dose it specifically?
Dr. Linda Isaacs: Yeah, well, I mean to some extent I don’t really like to get into a lot of details because I don’t think it would be very responsible of me to encourage people to try to treat themselves with something as serious as cancer. You know, and also, the doses vary depending on the person, depending on the type of cancer, but it’s very important that it be away from food. These are digestive enzymes and the goal with what I’m trying to do is give them to people to get into their system and work systemically, not just to thoroughly digest whatever they had for lunch.
So, I do recommend a few enzymes with meals, and for that matter, I recommend that for anybody. But for patients that are fighting a cancer, or have a strong family history, you know, whatever the concern might be. That would be when you would take them away from food.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it and so obviously, you’re going to be working with the patient, you’re going to be looking at their overall health, how aggressive the cancer is, maybe there’s some objective and subjective markers you’re looking at. So then, you’re going to work with that patient and then dial it in specifically for their needs. Is that correct?
Dr. Linda Isaacs: That’s right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Do you ever plug in, like you hear these other enzymes are out in the markets. I use them, you know, for blood flow or even you can see them, you use for like breaking down fibroid tissue things, like that, like Serapeptidase or Lumbrokinase or Nattokinase. Do you have any opinion on those or any therapeutic rationale to use those in your practice?
Dr. Linda Isaacs: Well, I use a few plant-based enzymes as a digestive aid. So, for example, the Standard Process product “Multizyme”, I use some of that as just as a digestive aid. And, there’s some reason to believe that amylase, specifically, one of the other enzymes that breaks down starches and that’s in a lot of both plant-based enzymes, a word in the pancreatic enzymes for that matter.
But there’s reason to believe that a little extra of that can help with some of the waste materials that can form as the enzymes do their thing. So, I use some enzymes for that otherwise it would be more about specific circumstances. So, you just mentioned some of the things that, some of those other enzymes are good for, and I might well, use them for that.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it, yeah. When you work up a patient, how do you like, when you look at there’s obviously a lot of potential root causes for cancer, right? There’s different therapies that you’re adding in I mean, I talk to patients, they’re like, “Well, when’s there going to be a cure for cancer?” And my general take is, well there’s a lot of different potential causes.
You could have low vitamin D, you can have insulin resistance, you can have exposure to different toxins in the environment, chemicals Plastics, pesticides, beyond hormonal compounds that are driving. There’s a lot of different root causes. So, when you’re looking at a patient, you one, do you obscribe to that similar belief? And then, two, are you working patients up and looking at all of the potential root causes and trying to address those while you’re doing these other therapies at the same time? How do you frame that out? How do you assess that ?
Dr. Linda Isaacs: Well, that’s an interesting question. I think, you know, on the one hand I could certainly say that, you know, as you mentioned, there’s a lot of different things that can contribute to somebody developing a cancer. On the other hand, on a practical level, I find that, you know, whether somebody’s cancer developed, primarily because of toxic exposures, or whether it didn’t, I’m still going to be focusing a lot on detoxification because, for one thing, we live in a polluted world, for another, the process of getting rid of the cancer, you know, you got to think, “Where does it go?”
You know, it’s, in other words, you kill it, but you’ve still got to get rid of the pieces. Something’s got to be removed. And so, they’re all going to need to address detoxification no matter whether, the cause of their cancer or, per se, was toxins or not. And the same thing would go for vitamin D, you know? Even if vitamin D deficiency wasn’t the fundamental cause, they still need to have their vitamin D optimized. So, in a way, some of the “Why” questions, from my point, of view kind of come out in the wash, in the sense that, I’m going to be doing or trying to address the same considerations whether that was the bottom line issue or not.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right, that makes sense. Makes sense. And so, when you’re working with a patient, you’re working them up, are there any specific lab markers that you’d like to look at? I mean, are you running, imagine you’re probably running vitamin D, you can tell me, are you looking at things like C-reactive protein? Are you looking at fasting insulin? Do you run any like cancer-antigen markers? Like, what are your favorite kind of go-to’s to kind of get a assess the playing field, so to speak?
Dr. Linda Isaacs: Right. Yeah, I may, well, wind up expanding that at some point but you know, to a large extent we learned what we did. Dr. Gonzalez and I, from Dr. William Donald Kelly. And a lot of the tests were not available in his area. And for that matter, you know, I started doing this work in the early 90s and a lot of these tests were only barely becoming into existence at that point. So, I’ve really learned to do a lot just with my clinical impression of situations.
And a lot of the standard markers, or the markers that you just mentioned, can actually be very confusing. For example, C-reactive protein, that might go up before it goes down. Why? Because, breaking up cancer is an inflammatory situation. The white cells and the macrophages and things that chew up and get rid of stuff require inflammation to do their thing. So, just like, it would be, I would think counterproductive if somebody had pneumonia to completely try to squelch their inflammation because that inflammation is fighting the pathogen that’s causing the problem.
So, I don’t necessarily want to squelch inflammation altogether. And so, it makes me a little wary because, you know, people kind of have this mindset, “Oh! Inflammation! That’s bad!”, “Inflammation causes cancer.” Well, and chronic inflammation can cause cancer but to get rid of it, you may need an inflammatory process for a while. So, it’s complicated, bottom line.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, your body has to, basically, start to break down these cancer cells and that can be a little bit inflammatory. Just like exercising can be a little bit inflammatory. But it’s enough where your body can be on top of it. And you’re keeping your detoxification pathways open to be able to process all that as well.
Dr. Linda Isaacs: Exactly, right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And typically, your body does apoptosis, right? That’s like programmed cell death. Like, if you look at the average person, what do you think the big barrier to the body starting to not be able to keep track of this apoptosis and not be able to continue to monitor cells so they don’t overgrow? What’s the first thing that goes wrong?
Dr. Linda Isaacs: Gosh, I don’t know. I think I might be able to win a Nobel Prize if I answered that one. But I, you know, again, our, the underlying theme in our work is pancreatic enzymes. You know, a shortage of the proteolytic enzymes, and you know, bear in mind that in the regular medical literature, the idea that proteolytic enzymes did more than digest food, is relatively new.
We’re just talking about, you know, the last 15, 20 years that there’s been more and more research about what proteolytic enzymes do systemically, as opposed to just like digesting food. So yeah, I, there’s an 80-page article about proteases that I referenced into something I recently wrote up about pancreatic enzymes, and you know, among the things that’s talked about is the immune system, and you know, some of the autophagy and etc.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting! And where does the microbiome plug-in? Because obviously, we have to have good digestion. Now you mentioned, protease for breaking down cancer and then protease for just being able to break down protein and fat. Where does looking at the microbiome and seeing, you know, “Hey, I have an infection I may have some bacterial overgrowth. I may have some bugs that can be creating some stress with me absorbing my nutrition. Maybe I have some bugs and some food allergens kind of creating some gut permeability, some leaky gut. Maybe that’s stressing out my immune system.” Where does looking at the gut kind of come in here?
Dr. Linda Isaacs: Well again, if somebody is short on pancreatic enzymes then they’re digestion, you know, whether they’re having symptoms or not, their digestion is going to be a bit of a mess. Simply because, you know, if you think about it what’s more important to the body on an immediate sense, certain cancer surveillance or digestion? Digestion, of course. That’s the thing you need to do first. And so, if somebody isn’t making enough enzymes to keep cancer cells under control, then they’re surely not making enough for digestion. So that can that can lead to various microbiome issues that, I think, can certainly play a role, sure.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, what else do you think is important? The average person that comes into you? The average listener right now? Okay, so we have these enzymes, we’re going to use these. This is going to be a very important palliative kind of root cause tool to get these, get that cancer low down, what do you think the next big thing? Is it working on the drainage and the detoxification? What’s the next big step here?
Dr. Linda Isaacs: Well, I typically, will address multiple things at once. My patients frequently look like they’ve been run over by a truck by the time I finish my recommendations, although I do try to warn them before we start, you know, “This is going to be a lot.” And the things that I have them address, first of all, they are taking a lot of enzymes, they’re also taking other supplements that just help give the body what it needs for repair and then, they need to clean up their diet for sure.
You know, you can’t keep eating the way that got you into trouble. In order to get out of trouble, you’ve really got to clean it up. And then, there’s also detoxification, that’s a huge part of it because if people faithfully take all of their enzymes but don’t do the detoxification, and they’ll wind up feeling like they’ve got the flu. So the detox part is extremely important.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And where does conventional therapy come in? I mean, obviously the big concern with conventional therapy is, number one, you don’t really get to the root cause, and two, yeah you can knock down the cancer load but then you’ve beaten up the immune system, so then now, this cancer can grow back because your immune system isn’t able to keep the cancer cells in check.
So, when is the conventional modality for cancer good and acceptable and then how do you work with that if someone’s doing cancer? Do you say “No, we got to do this. Do your programs first this second.” What’s the order of operations and how do you prevent the side effects of chemo from devastating the immune system in general?
Dr. Linda Isaacs: Yeah, okay, well before I take on a case, I ask people to send in some information about their situation and I do that partly because there are some situations where orthodox therapy is the way to go, or the way to go initially. And so, I will let people know that. I myself do not work with people that are getting chemotherapy at the same time, and there’s plenty of other practitioners that do that kind of work but I, that’s not what I choose to do.
You know, I think that in situations where surgery is possible and makes sense, in other words, the cancer hasn’t spread elsewhere, I would argue that people should go ahead and do it. So that’s, you know, one consideration. And there are times that people will send me information about a cancer.
You know, like just the other day, I got an application from somebody with a particular type of lymphoma, and that type of lymphoma, chemotherapy actually works for. So, you know, it would be irresponsible of me to tell him to do something else when chemotherapy can actually work now. I also, you know, I wind up seeing people that got the chemo and then come to me afterwards, to kind of get get their system working better. You know, I’m certainly open to doing that but I I don’t see people that are simultaneously getting chemo.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Correct. I think it’s the big three, it’s the lymphoma, leukemia, and testicular cancer. I think those are the big ones that chemo and conventional care tend to work well with, right?
Dr. Linda Isaacs: Yeah, there’s a few others but that’s, those are the big ones
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Do you remember the other ones?
Dr. Linda Isaacs: Oh gosh
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s off top of your head
Dr. Linda Isaacs: Yeah, I’m totally blanking out on that one. I know there are a few but I don’t remember.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’ll ask you the opposite. Are there any cancers out of the gate, that chemo just does not do well with, or conventional care doesn’t do well with?
Dr. Linda Isaacs: Yeah, pancreatic cancer is probably the biggest one, and that’s been the thorn in the side of the medical community for many, many years. You know, there’s a few people that can be cured by surgery, but even when the surgeon walks out and says, “I got it all.” 75% of them will recur within five years.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow, yeah. And aren’t there, how many types of pancreatic cancer are there? And isn’t there one more than another that’s more serious, or are they all equally the same?
Dr. Linda Isaacs: Yeah, the pancreas is almost like two organs in one. You’ve got the cells that make enzymes and when you develop a cancer in those cells, that’s the nasty type of pancreatic cancer. The other type, it develops in the beta cells, are called and that’s a group of cells that mainly make hormones like insulin or glucagon or gastrin. You know, there’s a different enzymes at those cell us make. And those cancers, when when a cancer develops there, it is typically slower growing, and so it’s not as immediate, a threat to life.
Although the ones that make hormones, if the hormone is causing trouble, well, that can get can be pretty touchy. But Steve Jobs, for example, he had the neuroendocrine, that’s another word for that. He had the slower growing type, as opposed to the exocrine pancreas, that’s the ones for the end, will make the enzymes, and that’s the truly nasty one.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it, exactly. So the exocrine one, is the one from the insulin side?
Dr. Linda Isaacs: No, exocrine is the one that makes the enzymes that digest food.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Enzymes, got it. Exocrine is the enzymes and the beta cell one, that’s the insulin one, correct?
Dr. Linda Isaacs: Yeah, yeah
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, got it.
Dr. Linda Isaacs: Yeah, kind of confusing because there’s many different words to describe the same thing. So, you know, exocrine is talking about enzyme secretes and endocrine is another word for the beta cells that secrete hormones into the blood.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it, and then if you have a pancreatic adenocarcinoma, is that going to be a exocrine one?
Dr. Linda Isaacs: Strictly speaking, adenocarcinoma is the label you would apply to either type
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, okay.
Dr. Linda Isaacs: Yeah, but most of the time if somebody says pancreatic adenocarcinoma, that’s usually referring to the exocrine, the nasty one. There’s other labels, I know this is confusing, but you know, it’s just the way it is. Adenocarcinoma is actually a label that can be applied to some types of lung cancer, to stomach cancer, to colon cancer, to breast cancer.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it.
Dr. Linda Isaacs: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, in other words, we have this adenocarcinoma is kind of the umbrella, and then we have the exocrine, which is more the enzyme side, that’s the nasty one, and then we have the endocrine, which is the insulin part. and that’s the lesser one. And you said Jobs had the lesser one.
Dr. Linda Isaacs: Yeah. He had the lesser one. Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, good okay. I try to boil everything down and make it as simple as possible. I want to be able to tell it to my five-year-old son, we can get it, good.
Dr. Linda Isaacs: Well, I hope your five-year-old son is not interested, you know?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, right right, no, I get it. Okay, so that’s cool, so we have these different types, and then, so what are the types of chemo that just, or types of cancer that just are not helpful at all? So we hit the pancreas, what else? Are there any brain parts, I think the medulloblastoma is another one. Any other takes on other types of cancer besides just the pancreas?
Dr. Linda Isaacs: Well, there’s a there’s a number of other situations where chemotherapy may be helpful for a short period of time, but it’s not going to fix, you know, not going to be a permanent solution. So, just about any of the metastatic cancers, meaning that it’s spread outside the original location, you know, chemotherapy may shrink tumors, it might prolong life, but it’s not going to be a cure.
And this, you know, is where people, you know, the terminology that’s frequently used in oncology, can be very confusing like for instance, people will hear a response you know the chemotherapy will give a response, and you know, 75 percent of patients, and they think, “Oh great! That means cure!” It doesn’t mean cure. it means tumor shrinkage. You know, so you have to kind of ask what words mean if you really want to know what orthodox therapy can do for you.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very good, and so obviously, if someone has cancer it’s always good to put someone like you, in their corner no matter what, whether they’re going to go the conventional route or the natural route or both. If someone’s going to their oncologist, I find a lot of conventional oncologists, they’re totally clueless when it comes to nutrition.
Like it’s just unbelievable, why the patients with brain cancer, they’ve asked their oncologist, “What kind of, you know, diet nutrition I should be on?” They said, “Diet has nothing to do with the cancer.” And I’m just like, “Wow!” You know, Harvard-trained physicians, it’s unbelievable. If someone’s going to see their oncologist, what are the top two or three questions that they should ask to see if they’re a good fit? Or just to run by their oncologist?
Dr. Linda Isaacs: Okay, well, I mean, first of all, I think the oncology world is starting to change a little bit. There have been a few studies recently where, it was shown that diet and exercise did make a difference, and so, I think that bit by bit, the oncologists will start to, at least, not be quite so dismissive, or say things like “Diet doesn’t matter.” So I’m hoping that will be the case.
I personally think it’s kind of a waste of time, though, to try to talk to an oncologist about diet because most of them really don’t know that much. You know, in terms of talking to an oncologist about the treatments they’re offering, some of the things you have to think about, you know, is listen to the way they explain things.
So, for instance, you know, this “X treatment” is going to reduce your risk by, you know, and they’ll say some big number, and you say, “Okay, if 100 people like me came in and got this treatment, how many of them would it help?” You know, you have to ask questions in questions like that because, for instance, supposing that you had, you know, a five out of ten people like you were going to have a recurrence, and the chemotherapy could reduce it to two and a half, well that sounds pretty good.
But what if a thousand people were going to have a recur, I mean, there was out of a thousand people, two of them were going to have a recurrence, and the treatment could reduce it to one in a thousand. That’s still a fifty percent reduction. Do you see what I’m saying? You have to you know because, unfortunately, the statistics are expressed in whatever way makes them sound the best.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Essentially, they’re gonna create a fog over relative risk versus absolute risk. Relative is the percentage, two out of a thousand to one out of a thousand, “Oh, it’s a 50% reduction!” But in the end, you know, is it really, you know, I get it. I understand it. Yeah, the relative versus the absolute. Also too, how they kind of, do a little pivoting when it comes to cures, right?
Because usually, a cure is talked about within a five-year time frame. If you had a cancer and you survived five years, they kind of lump you into a cure rate, yet you could die in year six and technically, you’re cured from that cancer. Maybe this is a new thing. So there’s also some fog around that too.
Dr. Linda Isaacs: Yeah there can definitely be some fog around things so you just have to ask questions.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And also too, it seems like the wheels have changed when it comes to chemotherapy. It takes a while once you have a standard of care, it’s hard to get a new standard of care above that and then, you have to look at the side effects. I mean, the standard care for pancreatic cancer as you know, it tends to be really powerful chemo that has terrible side effects. I mean, can you talk about like the standard of care treatment on the chemo side and what that looks like from a side effects standpoint?
Dr. Linda Isaacs: Well, your typical side effects of any chemotherapy or things like fatigue and nausea and, you know, the potential for infections, neuropathies. A lot of these different things can happen certainly, yes.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and then the nausea and all that is just terrible from a quality of life standpoint. I mean, I think it’s really important anyone that if you know anyone that has pancreatic cancer or has themselves it’s really important whether you go conventional or not, you want someone like Dr Linda in your quarter, that’s powerful.
You talked about detoxification. So, that’s kind of a big buzzword, right? Because there’s a lot of things that help enhance detoxification. When you say that, is that including water, sauna therapy? I know, you have the Gerson Institute that will do coffee enemas. There’s also things like glutathione and vitamin C and herbs like milk thistle. Which one do you kind of plug into your corner, or you like?
Dr. Linda Isaacs: The day-to-day detoxification routine that I recommend for everybody is coffee enemas. And that’s something Dr. Kelly used. It turns out, you know, coffee enemas go back in the literature for easily 150 years. The oldest reference I think I found for them was in a book, that was Google books, it has a lot of really old medical textbooks, so it’s a great place to look around, and I found something from the 1850s or 1860s, it actually described coffee enemas as if it was something everybody knew about.
You know, so they’ve obviously been around for a long, long time. They were used for poisoning or, you know, people that were really sick with infections, they would use it. They were also routinely used in post-operative care. And it’s one of those things that kind of got lost in the shuffle as pharmaceuticals came into wide use.
But you know, I think they’re very effective. Most of my patients absolutely love them. Nobody believes that when they first hear it. I didn’t believe it myself. But most of the patients love them. They feel better with them, and they are rapidly sold on the benefits.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, the mechanism essentially, you’re getting, you know, lukewarm or, I should say, room temperature or, I should say, body temperature type of coffee, right in regards to the temperature you’re using, do you use the Gerson, I think, is it a medium dark roast or medium roast for the type of coffee?
Dr. Linda Isaacs: Yeah, I don’t think it makes all that much difference what the roast you use.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Organic, though, right?
Dr. Linda Isaacs: Yeah, it should be organic. And yeah, so it’s a coffee solution. It’s weaker than your typical drinking coffee. There’s a lot of different variants on how strong to make it out there, but you know, it’s introduced into the rectum, held for 10 minutes, I tell people, and expelled. And like I said, most of the patients really come to love it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Now, what’s the mechanism? I’ve seen that it’s going to go up, to the gallbladder, and to the liver, and it’s going to increase glutathiones, that this is 600% – 800%, I’ve seen that. I’ve seen this also an expelling of toxins from the liver and gallbladder back into the coffee, so then when you go and jump on the toilet afterward, you’re going to release a lot of toxins plus stimulate the liver to make more glutathione. Are those the big mechanisms or is there more?
Dr. Linda Isaacs: Well, unfortunately, I can’t claim that this has been thoroughly researched. The coffee enemas definitely moved bile from the liver and gallbladder. And there was actually some folks in Korea that did an experiment, to document this. They were looking to, they were they had patients that were getting what’s called “capsule endoscopy” which is where you swallow a little camera and what would happen is that, people would swallow this little capsule and that would stimulate bile flow and then the bile would be in the area where the camera was and so you couldn’t see anything because it was all clogged, clouded up.
So what they had people do was to do a coffee enema right before they swallowed the capsule and there was no bile to be released so they in effect showed that the coffee enemas stimulate bile flow. I wrote a whole article a couple of years ago about coffee enemas and it turns out that whole thing about glutathione, I traced back you know, this to the source that comment about the explosion of glutathione.
And it’s unfortunately, I don’t think it’s a valid. It doesn’t mean the coffee enemas, they might be working that way, but the thing, the paper that’s quoted as proof for that, doesn’t prove that. So I don’t throw around the concept that it’s stimulating glutathione but I can tell you, it’s making people feel better.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So you feel like, the bile is, kind of like, wringing that sponge out, getting all that bile in there and there’s probably some kind of toxins in the bile that you’re able to pull out?
Dr. Linda Isaacs: Right, that’s what I think. Bile is where the liver gets rid of waste material so it makes sense and you know, I on a practical level, it’s not that easy to prove it though because nobody really wants to be doing laboratory tests on stool, to see if there’s toxins in there, they just you know, it’s not good. So, it’s not that easy to figure out how to prove it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right, that makes sense but clinically there’s data there. I mean, from your practice of empirical data that you see patients getting better, feeling better, that’s excellent. And then, we talked about glutathione within the coffee enema, right? That’s kind of a controversial aspect of it but are you working on increasing patience glutathione? Are you giving amino acids to make it? Do you give extra exogenous antioxidant support or give the amino acids to make it? Where does that plug in or does it?
Dr. Linda Isaacs: Well, I use like an acetylcysteine, alkylic acid. I definitely think those are helpful, and that’s one of the standard things that I give people.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool. Now, if you talk to like conventional oncologists, I see this a lot, where they’re afraid to give antioxidants during killing therapy or during chemotherapy? It’s just as they, the chemo is going to create a level of oxidative stress that will go after the cancer and if you’re giving antioxidants that it may neutralize the ability of the chemo to kill cancer. And that was kind of a thing that people were told to not be on supplements. Maybe eat a super healthy antioxidant-rich diet of leafy green vegetables, whatever. Where do you sit on that? Is that kind of old thinking? Or are they thinking these nutrients would still be helpful? Or should you still avoid a lot of these antioxidants if you’re going that conventional route?
Dr. Linda Isaacs: What I’d say there is that, I don’t do this kind of work myself. I’m not treating people that are simultaneously getting chemotherapy, so that question would be better directed towards somebody that is doing that. I’ve read conflicting information on that and so I don’t really have an opinion on that one.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, see, some of the studies I’ve seen, it seems to be like survey data and they look at like patient outcomes like after the fact, which you know, that’s probably not the best. They probably should put people in a medical lab and monitor it as they go. So yeah, I kind of feel the same. And so, when you see patients, do you prefer to see them after chemo?
Dr. Linda Isaacs: Yes, if somebody’s in the middle of chemo I prefer that they’ve finished that before I would consider taking them on, yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent, excellent. We’re going to put your links here to get a hold of Dr. Linda, doctorlindai.com, doctorlindai.com, we’ll put your coordinates down below. Anywhere else, potential patients or listeners could find out more about you?
Dr. Linda Isaacs: Well, that’s really the best place is my website and I would also encourage them to sign up for my email list and what they’ll get if they do that is a little introductory series and then just a little email once every couple of weeks. I won’t drown them in information but I try to you know, break it up so it’s a little more manageable. There’s a lot of information on my website, so I’d say that’s the place to start. so that’s d-r-l-i-n-d-a-i.com.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We’ll put the link down below if anyone’s driving they can go check it out. I’m gonna subscribe right now. All right, look at that. So outside of that, anything else you want to leave the listeners with so? I think we hit a lot of like conceptions, myths, you know, how to approach this naturally root cause. Any other questions that I didn’t ask that would be powerful to review briefly.
Dr. Linda Isaacs: Well, I think you did a great job of covering all the bases, really. So I can’t think of anything to add.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well I really appreciate you doc, taking Dr. Gonzalez’s torch and keeping it going for decades to come. it’s great that patients have natural options out there that have an integrative approach using the enzymes, diet, all the different tools so I love it. I think it’s great. I’m going to definitely use you as a resource for a lot of patients that I see that have cancer or need additional support above and beyond. So thank you for doing what you do. I appreciate it Dr. Linda.
Dr. Linda Isaacs: Okay, well thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Awesome. Thank you. Take care.
References:
Coffee Enemas: A Narrative Review
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bY6AvGT4cNVvBx1CypSee-PD4m9Jo462/view?usp=sharing
Audio Podcast:
Getting To The Root Cause of Your Disc Herniations with Dr. Jeff Fisher | Podcast #381
In this video, Dr. Justin and Dr. Jeff Fisher discuss various types of disc issues, including bulging and herniations, and how they can be treated using chiropractic exercises and programs, as well as soft tissue and deep tissue therapy.
They also talked about using devices such as traction devices and decompression machines and the potential benefits of diet and supplements, including collagen.
Dr. Justin and Dr. Jeff Fisher also mention stem cell therapy and stem cell injections, hydrostatic pressure, and spinal canal herniations. They also cover signs and symptoms of when surgery may be necessary and natural anti-inflammatory options. Key takeaways from the video include the importance of exercise and therapy in managing disc issues and the potential benefits of supplements and alternative treatments.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani
In this episode, we cover:
00:30 – Introduction to Dr. Jeff Fisher
06:25 – Chiropractic Exercises/Program
15:00 – Decompression and Traction Devices
19:17 – Diet and Supplements
23:00 – Stem Cell Therapy/Stem Cell Injection
26:00 – Spinal Canal Herniations
28:10 – Signs and Symptoms on Getting Surgery
30:20 – Natural Anti-Inflammatory
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s Justin Marchegiani. Welcome back to the show. I have doctor Jeff Fisher here on today’s podcast. I found doctor Jeff because I see lots of patients all over the world functional medicine wise and a lot have chronic pain and a lot of that pain can be disc degeneration, disc bulging, disc herniation and Doctor Fisher has some excellent advice and excellent products to kind of interventions to help work get to the root cause of some of these motion. So, we’re gonna have a topic. We’re gonna have a conversation on this topic and really dive in and look at all the different options. Doctor Jeff, welcome to the show. How are you doing today?
Dr. Jeff Fisher: Great. Thanks for having me.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Appreciate it. Excellent. And we’ll put links down below to some of the things we’re talking about Doctor Jeff’s website, his practice and to get some traction support as well. So how did you come into this space obviously your chiropractor, we talk pre show that you’ve been doing this for over 30 years, but how did you get specifically into the distraction space? Did you see a gap in conventional chiropractic and you were trying to fill that need, how did that happen?
Dr. Jeff Fisher: So it’s kind of a sad story for me, but a great story for my patients. I was a horribly slow football player. I was a slow moving target on the football field back in my day. So I’ve had a couple of disc herniations in my neck. I’m not even sure you can see my scar here. I’ve had an anterior discectomy with fusion. So I’ve got the little titanium plate and the four screws. It’s C5 and C6. And I also had a disc removal with a said procedure. Uh, where they went. They went in with a probe, stuck it in, went all the way out the back of my disk, and they sucked out material at C5, C6 and C7 is where I have my fusion. So I was in an incredible agony and I have the large decompression tables in my office, but obviously I couldn’t bring those home with me at night, when I couldn’t sleep, I could barely eat. I was in an incredible amount of pain, so I just started experimenting with myself and rigging up different apparatuses on a railing on our stairs up upstairs and I had this aha moment like the mother or father of invention is a necessity. I started to create my own home traction unit and Ijust said, wow, you know, I really got something here. As a matter of fact, I was in so much pain, I couldn’t sleep. And one night when I had built this prototype, I slept. I was out cold. My wife came up and she looked at me. She was like, Oh my God, he’s snoring. So just laid a blanket over me and left me there for about three or four hours. I woke up. I woke up and I was like, Jesus, I actually slept. I got you know, I got something here. So then I brought that into my practice and I started to experiment with my patients. And over the years I developed different prototypes that just became more and more successful, easier and easier for me to use and my patience to use. And finally we evolved into my Fisher traction and I have, you know, primarily we had a cervical unit, but then my wife had a large disc herniation for low back, there’s like contagious in our family, these disc herniations. And so I built one for my wife and she got incredible results. We actually had before, during and after MRI’s on her lumbar spine and we could see the reduction of her lumbar, discrimination from 7 millimeters to 5 millimeters to three millimeters in a relatively short period of time. So at that point I thought, wow, you know what, there’s so much, you know, clinical value and therapeutic value to this that you know I got to do something with it. So. I gotta do something with it. You know, we ended up. Building and creating my official traction as it is today.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: OK, very cool. So we’re kind of talking more today about disc bulging herniation.Um, the disk is essentially popping out. It’s either hitting Chipley, that intervertebral foramen where those nerves are going out. And so conventional chiropractic where we’re adjusting, we’re moving the bones, making sure we have movement in the spine, we’re addressing subluxations. Why isn’t that not enough sometimes to address these disc issues?
Dr. Jeff Fisher: Well, you know the disks are complex in some ways, but they’re actually very simple. And others, you know, are discs, the center of our discs, the nucleus. Functions on its hydrostatic pressure and because the gravity always pushing down, there’s that creation of the pressure pushing out and with our adjustments, you know obviously we’re working on enhancing the motion at the facet joint level and we are affecting the disk, but when you reverse that pull of gravity on the spine and you elongate it and you stretch it out, then you can create a negative intradiscal pressure. That actually sucks the disc back in and you can suck the herniation of the bulge back in through the annular fibers, which, you know, we can’t, we can’t quite do with an adjustment by itself. But you know, traction and adjustments, you know, especially in my practice, we do both. We don’t do just one or the other, we do both. And you can get incredible success when you combine both of those treatments together. Um.It’s a super fortunate situation for a lot of people with disc issues that you know when you combine chiropractic and traction together you can just get amazing results.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right. So with the chiropractic we’re getting good movements, good alignment within that spine. Everything’s moving better, better alignment, especially if we have upper cervical issues. You’re probably applying some level of exercise, right? And I imagine really working on extension muscles, postural muscles, probably just that upper cross or lower cross syndrome issue with the tight hip flexors or the deep cervical flexors. What kind of postural awareness or exercises do you kind of build into your program when you’re addressing disk issues?
Dr. Jeff Fisher: So how do I allude to this in my practice because I’m a corrective care chiropractic so I’m looking at restoring normal curves. So if you I I tell my patients this if you think of me.I’m like an orthodontist putting braces on your teeth. So my job is to try and get your spine straight or restore the normal curves in your neck. So I’m like putting braces on your teeth. I’ve got, you know, physical therapy and traction, which is like brushing and flossing. And we use Pilates, which is like a retainer. So we’re helping to strengthen those core muscles. Stabilizing, you know, the muscles that support and control the spine so that they’re not 100% reliant solely upon adjustments or entire lives and doing both. They’re working on the outer part, while I work on the inner part.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: If there was just one exercise like lower back disc or cervical disc, is there one thing that you could think of, one kind of movement pattern that will be essential and kind of your program?
Dr. Jeff Fisher: Well, I would say, you know, extension exercises are hugely important like with you, which you touched on is Uppercross syndrome. Yeah, now in the tech world, it’s called tech neck. Yeah, people on the computers or on their smartphones, so we have that tendency to lose the normal curve. Not matter of fact, they, you know.When you’re a chiropractor, you always have different examples, you know. I’m not sure. Can you see this? So, you know, we have tech neck. You know, this is the tendency of the spine to move forward, which is the opposite of what God intended our neck to be, which is back more in extension or that represents more of a natural curve.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: There should be a C curve. That C should be there.
Dr. Jeff Fisher: Absolutely. Absolutely. So when you work on these extensor muscles to strengthen and condition them to make sure that they’re constantly trying to pull the neck back into its more normal curve. They’re essential. And this, you know, this obviously is, you know, the head up here. Here’s the occiput and here’s the cervical spine but this also applies the lumbar spine too Lumbar spine too, you know, they’re they’re very similar curves in the lumbar sliding it’s anywhere between 20 and 40 degrees is the natural lordosis that we’re supposed to have. And in the cervical spine, this natural lordosis, this is supposed to be more towards about 30 degrees. So anything that you can do to help strengthen the condition and enhance those curves going backwards is super, super important.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s good. So what kind of an exercise would you recommend out of the game? Like a pro Cobra or like something like a walling where you’re tucking that chin in? Any specific, one exercise you can think of that kind of sticks out?
Dr. Jeff Fisher: So we call them supermans. Have you ever heard of that?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah you come on a Swiss ball sometimes or like yoga mat kind of
Dr. Jeff Fisher: yeah or just yeah you lay, you lay flat on the ground and you and you’re just trying to you know extend your body back contracting those muscles in the head and neck and and also a lumbar spine.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it. So you’re putting yourself in that really good extension with your back, an extension with your neck and where does soft tissue come into this? Do you ever do like active release technique or graston or any soft tissue to kind of get some of these muscles that may not be, they may be inhibited and you’re trying to facilitate them working again.
Dr. Jeff Fisher: Yeah, So what we do, my practice is we do a lot of neuromuscular reeducation and there there’s some incredible techniques that we use for our deep tissue therapist where they’re working on relaxing the trigger points, relaxing the muscles and typically what we do in my office is I have all my patients get that deep tissue neuromuscular reeducation work done first before I adjust them.So it’s like, it’s like marinating them before I go in and I, you know, give him a good strong adjustment to restore that.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, that’s very good. That’s excellent. Alright, so I want to just put up some visuals here just for some of the listeners. I think it may be helpful. If you’re listening to this on podcast, we’ll put the YouTube links below so you guys can see. This video was good. This was the one that I think you showed what an actual disc herniation looks like. I’m going to just play it here for the listeners and. Just a visual here.So we have the nerve right here and then here’s the disk and essentially overtime that disk is shortening and then we have a little bulge irritating. That nerve right there. So just kind of bringing it down here, this is a really good picture. Can you explain what’s happening here when you’re doing traction and what’s how that’s working?
Dr. Jeff Fisher: So what’s happening is. I’ve got a couple of my units here. I’m going to use this one because you might be able to see it a little bit better, but what my invention would I actually created is is a new form of traction and the actual engine or the mechanism of pole is these little discs here with these latex bungees in the middle and over our studies we calculated the amount of strength, the tensile elastic pull strength of the bungees where you see and pulling them apart, and this is our cervical unit. And the cervical unit can apply a maximum of 50 pounds of pull force, which supposedly that’s about the maximum of human neck can handle, although we’ve we’ve experimented on patients with with even a larger magnitude of pole force and they’ve been able to handle like big guys can handle a lot more but that pulling, you know, like this, it’s pulling in the opposite direction of what gravity does and the great thing about these latex bungees is that they have very similar characteristics to our muscles in that like when you’re on a big table and your neck is getting stretch, your body might fight with it and there’s not any sensory to relax the traction so your muscles can relax these bungees. What they’ll do is just naturally they’ll relax if your muscles pull and as your muscles relax. It pulls more uh, which is very good. They actually act like kind of in a symbiotic relationship. This is our standard low back unit and this guy. I uh, OK. I’m pulling as hard as I can as far as I can, that thing’s got like about 100 pounds of pull force.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s very cool. Well, when I saw these devices a couple things because I’ve been recommending various devices. Usually the lower cost ones tend to be more gravity based, whether it’s like a kneeling inversion or inversion boots. Obviously those tend to have problems where it just can be a pain in the butt to get into those. And if you’re really hot with your disk being inflamed can be a little difficult. And so, and then my concern with a lot of them was when I saw your device, there was an aha moment because what I really was needing from my patients was this ability to decompress and then relax. Decompress and relax. Think of that as you get a rag, you fill up with water, you ring it out and then you have the absorption to clean up the mess and then you bring to a water again and then you rinse it out again. That’s how your disk works. It’s like a sponge. Now the problem is, I’ll just, for the listeners, overtime the discs tend to shorten a little bit, cartilage tends to get weaker and essentially you’re disc gets hydrated with imbibition that’s essentially the pumping of that that disk and that movement of putting the pressure on letting it pull. Right. Expand the disk, create the negative pressure, suck it in and then relax. That for me created that Aha Mama. That’s the inhibition that the disk needed to kind of rehydrate and heal. Can you comment a little more on that?
Dr. Jeff Fisher: Yeah, that’s really the critical component to decompression. Decompression by itself is the desired outcome and one of my proprietary components, Umm, I’m not sure if that’s in reverse there, but says crap, so release strap is engaged by the user to go through these periodic resting phases and if you think of the center of the disk, like the substances in baby diapers where the the proteoglycans, they can absorb, you know like 500 times their weight in water. But that lasting phase is critically important because once you draw the water it socks in. It needs to get absorbed in the matrix of those proteoglycans. And that resting phase allows that. So you’re literally, you’re rehydrating the discs, you’re giving the discs life.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. That makes sense. And I didn’t. I haven’t seen a lot of other devices on the market that provide that pumping action. Unless you’re going into that, you know, unless you, you know they have the ones over the top with the weights or the blood pressure cup, but then it involves, it’s kind of a pain in the butt to kind of off on and off on. Are there any other competitors even close that has that release action?
Dr. Jeff Fisher: Well, they can’t because yeah, I have the United States utility patent, so I invented a new form of traction. So it’s kind of funny. Matter of fact, we run on Amazon and we’ve taken down about 40 competitors that tried to steal my idea so that no one else can actually design or make a traction unit like mine, because I invented a new form of traction. It’s mine, it’s my baby.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So it’s cost effective too. So that’s great. And this is kind of what’s happening at the lumbar here, right? This is pulling this apart.This is essentially pulling the hips down. You’re anchored up here, so it’s creating that disk space versus having to do traction or having to move your body and then you can release it here. Do you have a good image on the website for the cervical spine?
Dr. Jeff Fisher: I do, I do if you well actually, you know what so you know you’re funny story. We just sold out right there. There it is right there. If you click on that, you will probably see it. But we literally just sold out of our cervical units. Yeah, it’s a positive problem.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s a good problem. That’s a quality problem. Yeah. Yeah. OK, that’s cool. Alright. Anything else? And with the cervical spine, obviously similar situation. Right. We’re just, we’re just grabbing, you know the, everything from the neck up versus you grabbing it from the hips down. Where’s that image that I just had? Let’s see, here where go. I’ll try to pull back up here had it was a good image of what was happening there.
Dr. Jeff Fisher: While you’re looking for it. Another really important part about how my traction unit is different from most others is that there’s studies have been shown that if your spine is in extension in its more natural curve during traction you get better results, so that’s another reason why mine is supine. So when you lay down, your neck still maintains that natural curve. What they did was they designed it at an appropriate length so it maintains that 30 degree angle of pull force which enables you to reach over a larger number of disk spaces in the spine. If it’s too flat then you’re only affecting the upper cervicals, and if it’s too far forward where your neck is an extension one that causes damage to the discs the two, then you’re only reaching the lower vertebrae, but when you allow it to be in a 30 degree angle you can reach over almost the entire cervical spine all at once.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So this angle right here.
Dr. Jeff Fisher: Exactly, exactly.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And then typically this is anchored over gonna be like a door jam. Typically,
Dr. Jeff Fisher: Yeah, yeah, you do both. The upper, yeah. Hook it on a doorknob and just you lay down. It’s really super easy to use.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s cool. That’s excellent, very good. So outside of that, what else would you want to highlight with your programs like this is going to be a part of the program? What else do you see like nutritionally, diet wise, helping them move the needle, whether it’s reducing inflammation, kind of a Whole Foods kind of paleo template, certain food allergens, what kind of supplements as well would you want to add in to kind of help reconstitute that disk tissue?
Dr. Jeff Fisher: Well, you know one of the most simple is water. Water, water, water, water and and and and so many of us, you know like I drink, I drink my coffee. You know like everybody else does but I myself I’m kind of like a test tube or a test.Things out on myself first before I implement my practice. But I’ve been consciously drinking more water over the last year and honestly, I’ve virtually only drink water. I drink my coffee and I just drink water.That’s it, and I can tell myself that.You know, that’s helped in the inflammatory effects. I still run, I still work out, and my knee problems are gone. My feet, my ankles.Uh, you know, along with I take glucosamine with chondroitin MSM. Umm. And uh, you know, nutrition is a huge, huge, you know, part of our health. And, you know, unfortunately, we don’t always get that in our diets. So if you’re not taking any vitamins, you should take at least a multivitamin to start. But there’s so many, as you know, like in functional medicine, there is such an incredible depth of nutrition that can be evaluated properly and you can add it into your life. And honest to God, nutrition can totally change your life. It really, really can.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, so if you’re hydrating good clean filtered water, mineral water, you’re not, you’re not obviously doing a lot of the high fructose corn syrup junkets inflaming your body. What about for like tissue? Like what about collagen peptides or conjoin or any any building block stuff like what’s your experience with that?
Dr. Jeff Fisher: So you know that that’s a great question because we actually just started looking into that because, you know, as the disks themselves. Here’s my little. my little baby here. The outer fibers of our discs are made of type 1 collagen, and just a little bit deeper, they’re type 2 collagen. So you know, my wife is much smarter than I am. So she takes all these incredible supplements, but she’s been taking collagen. And she notices a difference in her skin, everything and and and I you know honestly I that’s not my area of expertise per se. You know more about that than I do but but I think you know collagen is able to maintain its same, you know, compounds even if it as it gets digested and you have extra collagen in your body then it can replace maybe old collagen I mean.That’s like a no brainer to me. Yeah, I think, yeah, you can pump that in you, you pump in the good and you pump out the old and your body stays healthier, stays younger.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I mean your your body tends to know where to lay down these these amino acids and proteins just by lifting weights your body creates the inflammation in the bicep by doing curls and you’re going to reconstitute protein there. So I imagine that same kind of response in that dish tissues and the trigger some of that building block and if you’re eating junky food or not digesting and absorbing a lot of nutrients, then that collagen will be helpful. Anything else that you would like, let’s say someone’s really hot, really inflamed, would you ever add in something like prolotherapy or PRP platelet rich plasma or stem cell injections. What’s your experience using an injectable in that area to kind of work alongside it?
Dr. Jeff Fisher: So you know, that’s actually a great question. I’m not sure if you’re familiar with this, what’s happened with stem cell therapy most recently. You know the FDA has stopped us from being able to use that, but we used to do stem cell injections in my office and they were.Oh really? Oh yeah, yeah, incredibly successful. But now they’ve put a limitation on it because most stem cell injections i’s a mixture. And once you start, once you start mixing things, you’re creating new drugs. So of course, FDA shut that down.So, we’ve had to discontinue that in our office, but it was incredibly successful. So there’s something there. There’s definitely something there.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I always tell patients too, even if you were to do an injectable, whether it’s PRP or stem cell or prolotherapy. It’s still not the root cause and maybe accelerating the healing of that tissue, but you still have to fix the underlying mechanism of why that got beaten down. And you still want to bring that disc back in so that annular fibrosis, that outer ring, can heal. Because of that pulposus is still pushing through that ring. It’s just not going to heal. It’s like ripping a scab off all the time, right?
Dr. Jeff Fisher: Exactly, exactly. And you know, again, that gets back to the rehydration. You know that disk lives on the hydrostatic pressure, so the greater the hydrostatic pressure inside the disc is so incredibly important and I’m not sure if you’re aware of this is something I just learned because I do all my continuing education courses every year. I always I’m always looking for disc related material and I came across this.Just most recently that we have these nerves that go into the disc. They surround the disk and they go into the disk OK and I can’t remember what the name of the nerves are, but the hydrostatic pressure prevents those nerves from getting deeper into the disc. And now they’re talking about discogenic pain. So the deeper those nerves are able to penetrate in, they’ll collide with an acid that the nucleus has and it causes pain. So as a disk dehydrates and loses its water those nerves can grow further in and then you have more pain. So maintaining that health of that nucleus by increasing that hydrostatic pressure by decompressing prevents those nerves from getting in, which prevents pain. So it’s hugely, hugely important.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So essentially you have that herniation, that video we showed where that disk kind of comes out, hits that IVF intervertebral foramen, those spinal nerves coming out. It’s not just that it could not even be hitting that, just there’s little nerves around the actual disc, just a little bit of pressure on that could be sending a signal, a pain signal, essentially.
Dr. Jeff Fisher: 100 percent, 100%. Yeah, yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Now what about disc herniations into the spinal canal? I think most disc herniations are going to be more IVF just based on the anterior to posterior nature of that where the spinal canal is more interior. How often do you see spinal, spinal canal herniations and would this type of traction still help that?
Dr. Jeff Fisher: They would and you know this one of the reasons why because we have a, you know, all the way in the very back of our of our spine, we have the posterior longitudinal ligament, which is like like a thick piece of leather that goes all the way down our spine and that prevents that that direct posterior disc herniation. But I do a fair amount of injury cases, car accidents. Where, when? When? Instability. Where the bones were able to move forward and backward beyond their normal range of motion. Yeah, that can cause a little bit of elasticity or loosening of that posterior longitudinal ligament were it actually allows a posterior disc herniation to go backwards towards the spinal canal and it doesn’t happen that often, but it just depends on the magnitude of injury and force. But when there’s instability is going forward and backwards, which you can see on flexion extension films, then you have to look for that also, which you know an MRI of course could show you that.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: But you find, you still are able to recover patients like that?
Dr. Jeff Fisher: Yeah, we are, you know there’s such an incredible power to traction and it’s so simple. But the key is really the frequency and the consistency of use and like what we stress what we found is that.If you can use it for 21 consecutive days, 21 days. Use it before you go to bed or when you wake up in the morning, whatever is most convenient for you. But you know if after 21 days, you know, most of our patients are a lot better. If you’re not, then you better go check in with an orthopedist because you might be a surgical candidate.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And at what point do you need surgery? What are the signs or symptoms of what percent of people do you think you’re able to save from getting surgery? Do you think 90, 95% and you can avoid and what symptoms you have to look for when you’re like OK yeah you really need surgery and then maybe work on this later?
Dr. Jeff Fisher: So like for me, I’m a perfect example.I had an enormous discrimination in my neck and I was starting to get atrophy of my left tricep and part of my pack. So if you’re getting atrophy of muscles, you need to consult with the surgeon because that can be a permanent issue. But again if you have numbness and tingling, if you’re if your reflexes or sensation are affected when you go in to see you know any healthcare provider may evaluate you. And if those things are progressive, they’re getting worse or they just will not go away with any type of conservative treatment.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Even interaction as well.
Dr. Jeff Fisher: Even traction. I mean, I wish we could help everybody, we can’t, but you know our success rates are over 80% and most studies show that about 80% of people that that take on traction, they get better. But there is, you know, I don’t know the exact percentage of people that are just, you know, always going to be surgical candidates or not, but you know, in my office I have a great relationship with the orthopedist who actually did my surgery. So he’s incredibly conservative. He knows all about. Chiropractic traction, everything. If I get a really difficult case where my patients just are not progressing, I’ll send them over to Nitin N. Bhatia and he’ll look at them and many times he goes, you know what, go back to Fisher. Keep doing it. Let’s give it another month. Let’s give it another month after that
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That see how much you can retract that this back in and if you’re seeing improvement and imagine some people they probably still feel a little bit better on the traction if they have a disk issue. So if you see a little bit of improvement and you can inch away at that like 21 days you said, then you could probably get some momentum. I would assume.
Dr. Jeff Fisher: Exactly and that’s the key. It’s getting that therapeutic momentum of treatment over and over and over on a consistent basis. And you can draw it back.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Any other natural anti inflammatories you would add in? Imagine just getting to the root cause, you’re going to be avoiding lots of these dangerous opiate medications that conventional medicines finally getting keen on and their addictive nature not really fixing anything, they’re just blocking perception of pain but any other natural anti inflammatories, you wanna add in or you see to be successful with their patients with disc issues?
Dr. Jeff Fisher: You know, I don’t know. Because, you know, I’m like a mechanic. You know, I’m, I’m restoring the motion and position of the spine and I tend to refer out. You know, there’s a big functional medicine facility that’s close to us. And uh, let those experts do what they do. I mean, you might, you know better than I do is, I mean what do you use, is there any?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I mean I think out of the gate, you know higher dose fish oil can be excellent. I think different herbs like frankincense or Boswellia or even some topical CBD can be great. I even find systemic enzymes taken away from food. Systemic enzymes that have like seropeptidase, they, they kind of get into the bloodstream and they start breaking up scar tissue, they break up inflammatory cytokines and interleukins and they can help provide more pliability to that tissue. So those are just a couple of things out of the gates I think can be helpful.
Dr. Jeff Fisher: Awesome. Well, you know what we need to collaborate then.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, that’s great. That’s great. And then can you work with patients that have gone the conventional medicine wrote. Let’s say they went in and they got a cortisone injection. OK, the pain is better. Doc, can you still work with those patients while that cortisone takes six months to wear off.
Dr. Jeff Fisher: Absolutely. We do that all the time.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And how do you find their limitations? Because now they don’t have pain telling them, oh, don’t do this. How do you get them to be on top of their limitations when they really can’t perceive pain?
Dr. Jeff Fisher: Well, you know, I X-ray everybody, Umm, I do. And unless somebody has films that are, you know, less than six months old, I X-ray, everybody. So I look at them from a structural standpoint where if I’m looking and seeing that they have subluxations, they have a lot of curve or scoliosis or whatever it is. I stay focused on that and I get them to focus on that because even if the pain is not there, their spine is not at their optimum level. So we’re always concentrating on the restoration of normal curves. So it helps the patient to get more focused on, hey, if you want to prevent this from coming back, you want to stay healthy, we have to get that curve back to normal.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very good. Excellent, doc. Well, any other last clinical pearls you wanna leave us with your 30 plus years of practice?
Dr. Jeff Fisher: Uh, well, I’d say, you know, I tell my patients this all the time. Motion is life and life is motion. So if you are constantly working towards the restoration of normal motion, your maximum motion, you’re gonna live a better life, a healthier life. You’re going to be able to experience all the things that you want to do.vacations grandchildren whatever it might be so motion is so key so whatever you can do to help increase your ranges and your functionality and your body. You got to do it, you got to invest the time and effort.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent. We’ll put links down below guys to access some of Doctor Fisher’s patented technology fishertraction.com. We’ll put links below in the comments and also Doc sees patients in person over an Irvine CA fisherchiropractic inc.com. I’ll put both links if you’re in the California area and you want to get support. He’s there for you as well. Anything else though, you want to leave the listeners with any other coordinations or social media stuff you want to highlight?
Dr. Jeff Fisher: Well, you know.We actually were coming out with our new boxed units of my Fisher traction. Um, we’ve got a deal going on right now. You’ve probably heard of Meyer DC they’re one of the largest durable medical devices. So we’ve got a big deal going on with them. So, we’re trying to reach out more to practitioners.Uh, like yourself, where patients need it, you’re going to be able to purchase it and have it in your clinics readily, readily available so patients can try it right away. We’re going to do some training videos on how you guys can implement it in practices and help your patients with it. So you know we’re we go to fishertraction.com. We’re always trying to update things and I have my YouTube channel where I’ve got I don’t even know over 100 videos on Chiropractic on traction on, you know virtually anything for health. So uh, it’s kind of an exciting journey.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s very good. We’ll put links below. We talked about a promo code, maybe Dr. J will work. We’ll put it in the description below. We can get that set up after. All right, doc? Well, thanks so much. Amazing chatting with you. Appreciate the information and we’ll talk again soon. You take care.
Dr. Jeff Fisher: Alright, brother. Take care. Thanks.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Thank you.
References:
https://www.fishertraction.com/
Recommended Product:
Discount code for 10%: Drj10
Audio Podcast:
Top Uses for Apple Cider Vinegar
By Dr. Justin Marchegiani
You may have heard the buzz about apple cider vinegar; it’s being used for everything from curing the hiccups to even treating cancer! Apple cider vinegar, or ACV, is apple cider that has undergone fermentation. Through the process of fermentation, probiotics and enzymes form, which reduce the sugar and calories in the liquid while increasing the healing and health-promoting properties.
Top Apple Cider Vinegar Uses
Apple cider vinegar has been used for millennia for its wide-ranging health and wellness benefits; records indicate its usage dates back to 5,000 B.C. Below are some of the most common and most useful ways to incorporate ACV into your lifestyle.
Sore Throat Remedy Germs are killed off by the acidity of apple cider vinegar, which makes ACV a great contender for scaring off a sore throat. Simply mix ¼ cup apple cider vinegar with ¼ cup of warm water and gargle as needed.
Sunburn Tonic Apple cider vinegar is antiseptic, with the ability to kill germs, reduce blisters, and balance the natural pH of the skin. To relieve the pain of a sunburn and to expedite healing, either add water and apple cider vinegar to a spray bottle or a cotton ball and apply to the affected areas, or, add a few cups of ACV to a bath for full-body healing.
Weight Loss Aid Apple cider vinegar for weight loss works in a couple of ways. Firstly, and perhaps most effectively, the acidity actually suppresses your appetite, so you end up eating less! In addition, apple cider vinegar increases your metabolism and reduces water retention. Apple cider vinegar is most effective for weight loss when used in combination with a healthy diet!
Blood Sugar Regulation A variety of studies have been done on the effect of apple cider vinegar and blood sugar. Type 2 diabetics and those who are insulin resistant took apple cider vinegar with high-carb meals actually had lower blood sugar after eating! The antiglycemic effects of ACV can be beneficial for anyone and can reduce the risk of developing diabetes in the first place.
For Your Skin, The antibacterial properties of apple cider vinegar make it great for your skin and efficient at minimizing acne. It can be used as a spot treatment to heal acne and reduce scarring, or it can be diluted with water and used as a facial toner. If you use face masks, like a bentonite clay mask, try using apple cider vinegar as your mixing liquid to stimulate blood flow and awaken your skin!
Digestive Aid If you suffer from acid reflux, try drinking a glass of water with 1-2 tablespoons of ACV before you eat. The acidity of the apple cider vinegar should prevent the acid backflow that is acid reflux.
In addition, the good bacteria and probiotics produced by fermentation make apple cider vinegar beneficial for your gut biome! Consuming apple cider vinegar promotes a healthy microbiome and improves your ability to digest food and absorb nutrients.
Hiccups Cure Many people swear by apple cider vinegar as their tried & true hiccups remedy. Take a teaspoon of ACV; its sourness should stop your hiccups dead in their tracks!
For Your Hair, An apple cider vinegar hair mask is a great way to get rid of build up on your scalp. Using a cotton ball, dab apple cider vinegar all over your scalp and let it sit for 10 minutes before showering it out. If you have sensitive skin, dilute with water.
ACV can also be used to get rid of dandruff by balancing the pH of your scalp, which creates an environment that is unwelcoming towards the dandruff fungus
Purchasing Apple Cider Vinegar
In order to get all the benefits that apple cider vinegar has to offer, it’s important to look for all of these words on the label: organic, raw (unpasteurized), and unfiltered.
Organic: This will ensure you’re getting something free of genetically modified organisms (GMOs) and other pesticides and additives.
Raw: Raw, or unpasteurized, means the apple cider vinegar has not been heated or processed. It’s important to get raw apple cider vinegar because heat will kill all the beneficial bacteria, enzymes, and probiotics.
Unfiltered: You’ll see sediment at the bottom of unfiltered ACV- this is a good thing! The sediment is all a part of the mother culture; it’s all the good stuff!
So there you have it; apple cider vinegar is used as a remedy all across the globe, now it’s time for you to get some in your pantry!
Click here to schedule a introductory functional medicine consult to start feeling better today!
References:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29224370
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29379012
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29112940
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28602743
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29091513
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27840173