The Cholesterol Myth

Cholesterol Myth

The Cholesterol Myth

By Dr. Justin Marchegiani

If you’ve only been told what the general public has been told about cholesterol and heart health, you probably believe cholesterol is one of the prime culprits behind heart disease. But do we have enough scientific support to prove this statement, or it is just another health myth that’s been blindly taken for true?

According to the WHO (World Health Organization), almost 20 million cardiovascular deaths occurred in 2015, making them responsible for about 30% of the global death rate. It is obvious that we need to take extra care to ensure the health of our hearts, but it is also our responsibility to properly investigate medical and dietary recommendations. The objective of this article is to guide you through this process and to help you understand the role cholesterol plays in keeping us healthy. After reading this article, you will have the knowledge to decide for yourself whether or not you want to restrict dietary cholesterol!

Introduction to Cholesterol

There is a much controversy among researchers who have been investigating cholesterol as a contributory factor towards heart diseases. Cholesterol actually has many beneficial roles, and there is insufficient evidence to support claims that high cholesterol is correlated to death due to cardiovascular issues.

  • There is cholesterol present in all fatty foods.
  • Cholesterol is necessary.
  • Dietary intake of cholesterol has negligible effect on plasma cholesterol level; as the liver eliminates excess cholesterol and maintain health plasma cholesterol level
  • Restricted diet and lifestyle measure cannot control hypercholesterolemia occurs due to hereditary or genetic reason.
  • Hypercholesterolemia can occur at any age, even children can also develop due to liver dysfunction.
  • Cholesterol consumed through food is unable to dissolve in blood.
  • Lipoproteins, comprised of lipid and protein molecules, act as a carrier in cholesterol transportation in the blood circulation.They are classified into two main groups: low density lipoproteins (LDL) and high density lipoproteins (HDL). LDL can be large and fluffy (and safe), or small and dense (and dangerous).
  • Large LDL particles are not harmful and do not play any part in plaque formation.
  • A case for saturated fat: Butter is more heart-healthy than margarine, as margarine creates small, dense LDL, whereas the saturated fat in butter converts the small, dense LDL into the large, fluffy (safe) LDL. Let the butter flow!

Click here to work with a functional medicine doctor to discover your cholesterol levels!

Cholesterol-Rich Diet: Dangerous or Not?

This is an important question to ask. The British Medical Journal (BMJ) conducted research which showed that lowering cholesterol levels by switching to a cholesterol-free diet could not reduce the cardiac diseases related death rate.

Dietary guidelines promote vegetable oil over saturated fat, and this is reflected in national spendings on vegetable oils. However, dietary saturated fat has been shown to reduce the chance of heart attacks, whereas vegetable oil may actually increase this risk. Other factors that may cause increased cholesterol levels in the blood include:

  • Family history, as this affects your genes and predisposition to certain genetic patterns.
  • Your lifestyle: stress levels and diet have a profound affect on not only your general health, but also on your gastrointestinal function.
  • In instances of leaky gut syndrome, gut permeability allows food particles and toxins to leak into the bloodstream, which leads to elevated cholesterol and triggers inflammation.

The Vital Nature of Cholesterol

Cholesterol is one of the primary constituents of cell membranes and plays a major role in the maintenance of normal human cellular physiology. Cholesterol takes part in protein interaction and in signaling systems inside the body. Steroid hormones and bile acid are actually composed of cholesterol!

Research conducted in the 1960s reported cholesterol has no impact in the formation of atherosclerotic plaque. When the British Heart Foundation showed their skepticism, scientists in New York re-evaluated these findings by using new technology. This more advanced technology turned up the same results: increased cholesterol levels, specifically LDL-cholesterol, does not cause plaque progression. This is made obvious due to the fact that cholesterol lowering drugs are unable to lower the risk of death for patients who take these drugs. What’s more, according to the BMJ Open journal publication, almost 92% individuals with high cholesterol level have longer life span!

A Case For Dietary Cholesterol

A Case For Dietary Cholesterol

In 1960, the American Heart Association guidelines made the recommendation to stop eating eggs due to their high saturated fat content. This started the dietary trend of restricting egg consumption in an attempt to be heart-healthy. However, research conducted by Harvard involving more than 80,000 female nurses showed that eating eggs daily does not increase the risk of cardiac disease. It’s important to keep an open mind, seeking out evidence-based research rather than blindly trusting paid-for promotional gimmicks. The “fear” of eggs is starting to reverse, as a recent dietary recommendation published by U.S. Dietary Guidelines reported that egg yolks is an important source of protein. A good step forward!

A survey conducted in South Carolina also support a saturated-animal-fat rich diet, which includes foods such as meat, eggs, whole milk, butter, cheese, and bacon, as their research proved there is no correlation between blood cholesterol levels and dietary fat intake ratio.

The Lancet publications are one of the world’s oldest and best known general medical journals. One Lancet publication stated that 74% of plaque formation in the arteries is associated with unsaturated fat sources, including canola oil. Attempting to reduce your risk of cardiovascular issues by cutting natural sources of saturated fat (like butter) is not where our focus should be, as this study proves that unsaturated fats are the real culprit destroying our health.

Drugs to Lower Cholesterol: More Dangerous than Cholesterol Itself?

Statin drugs are one of the established pharmaceutical brand medications for lowering cholesterol levels to “reduce the risk of heart disease.” Statin drugs are frequently prescribed to patients at risk for cardiovascular problems, but their effectiveness is not proven, and the list of side effects is long.

Continuous intake of statin drugs can cause fatigue since energy production become reduced. These medications increase the risk of blood clogging up the arteries (atherosclerosis) and heart failure by decreasing vitamin K2 absorption. Side effects also include diabetes, cancer, musculoskeletal disorders, neurodegenerative disease, and cataracts.

The effectiveness of statin medications preventing heart attacks or death from heart attacks is negligible, as multiple studies have revealed that statin therapy can only produce a 0.6% risk reduction of having a heart attack when compared to rates of patients who did not take statin drugs.

How to Reduce Your Risk of Heart Disease

How To Reduce Risk Of Heart Disease

So we see that not only do statin drugs not protect against cardiovascular disease, they also come with a long list of dangerous side effects. So what can you do to lower your risk? Here are some tips to live a healthy life:

  • Replace simple carbohydrates with complex carbohydrates (whole grains) and fibers: Refined grains, such as white bread, pasta, flour, and white rice are high in glucose. Glucose is a simple carbohydrate with a high glycemic index, which can lead to insulin resistance. Increased insulin can also convert fat into trans fat, which causes inflammation and is associated with blocked arteries, cardiac disease, and cancer.
  • Cut the sugar! Sugar leads to all sorts of illnesses, including an increased risk of heart disease. Start by ditching the soda (one can has over twice the recommended daily maximum amount of sugar), and from there continue to make healthier swaps.
  • Be active! Take part in a sport, go for a job, lift some weights, swim, dance… Exercise lowers the risk of heart disease and boosts your mood!
  • You’re better off swapping the canola oil for coconut oil (a healthy source of saturated fat)!

Click here for a professional health consultation and start feeling better today!

References:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK45688/

https://www.bhf.org.uk/heart-matters-magazine/news/behind-the-headlines/cholesterol-and-statins

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK351/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18615352

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/cholesterol/

http://www.ravnskov.nu/2015/12/27/myth-6/

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/78/3/544S.full

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18609060

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12507667?

Jimmy Moore – The Complete Guide to Fasting – Podcast #132

Dr. Justin Marchegiani welcomes his special guest, Jimmy Moore, in today’s podcast about fasting and nutrition. Listen to them as they engage in a very energizing and interesting discussion on how to do intermittent fasting for a therapeutic reason.

Learn about how fasting benefits and affects our bodies in many ways and be able to apply the guidelines involved in a successful fast. Get valuable information on supplements supporting the Ketogenic diet and know more about cholesterol issues, including the testing involved and its possible root cause.

In this episode, we cover:

07:21   Fasting

11:40   Thyroid Function during fasting

18:43   MCT oil, Ketones, and other supplements

27:27   Ketones and Neurological Conditions

34:50   Lipid Panel: Cholesterol

 

itune

 

 

youtuve

 

 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey there! It’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani. We have my good friend, Jimmy  Moore. And one of the biggest podcasts on the Internet here. He is a—he’s one of the guys that I look to for inspiration, kinda how I MC kinda my podcast coz Jimmy is— does it so right. Jimmy, how you doing today?

Jimmy Moore: Hey! What’s up, Justin? I love how enthusiastic you get. We all have our radio boys when we come on.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Jimmy Moore: We’re just talking to each other then, “Hey, hey, guys we’re back here on the Justin Marchegiani show.”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hahaha. Well I always love how you exit your podcast. You say the person’s name, you’d say, “His name is Jimmy Moore” And I love that exit. It was just so great.

Jimmy Moore: I still do that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I love it. I love it. It’s so great. I’m gonna do it today, too, as a little tribute for you.

Jimmy Moore: That’s cool.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: But Jimmy, how have you been?

Jimmy Moore: I’ve been good, man. Just like us Tony before we came on the air. It’s just busy busy all the time and it’s the way I like it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent. I know you had a book that just came out recently on fasting. Let’s dig in. How’s that going? I know you did that book with Dr. Jason Fung.

Jimmy Moore: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Talking about fasting and how to do it therapeutically. Just kind of any listener that’s trying to get some more information on fasting, why should they get that book?

Jimmy Moore: Well, we wrote the complete guide to fasting, Dr. Fung and I, uhm— because when I was looking for a resource on doing some longer facet done some intermittent fast pretty naturally, when you’re ketogenic, you know it’s extraordinarily easy to intermittent fast. I mean, if you go longer than or—or shorter than eight hours without eating between meals, you’re not doing it right. So intermittent fasting was very easy for me and I was even finding that pushing it to say 36-ish hours which is basically an alternate day fast also was pretty easy. So I want to try to push the envelope a little bit and do these longer fast. Well I met Dr. Fung of all places in Cape Town, South Africa he and I shared

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow.

Jimmy Moore: — the stage together at a big low-carb conference that happen there a few years ago. And I went up to him after hearing his talk. I’d never heard of him before and he was talking about fasting as, “Oh, here’s somebody that does something about fasting.” And so, I said, “You know I’m looking for a good resource on doing some longer fast. What is out there?” And he said, “Nothing.”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Alright. So we’re back. So the last question we were talking about the fasting book and you mention you did it with Dr. Jason Fung, so tell me about kind of how that started?

Jimmy Moore: Yes. So he when he and I decided we wanted to collaborate on a book, I decided to start fasting myself. Again, I’ve been doing some— some intermittent fast but I wanted to push the envelope and see, “Okay, let’s see how I do with a little bit longer fast— no, context here.” I used to think fasting was the stupidest thing in the world. Why would you purposely starve yourself? It just made no sense to me. But that was under the thinking that I was starving myself. Once I realized it’s not really starving yourself. You’re doing this for therapeutic reason. That’s when fasting started to make a little more sense, especially when it was spontaneously happening on an intermittent level. Really, all you’re doing is just extending it a little further than that to give your body the benefits that you’re looking for. So I did a—a goal in September 2015, to go 21 days in a row of fasting. Now the longest I’ve ever made, it was like 6 1/2 days. And that one, I told this uh—story in the book, The Complete Guide to Fasting, that I— I took communion on the seventh day of a fast. And I was planning on going seven days on that one and to communion that day at church, got home from church and you know what happened, Justin. I crashed so hard.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So hard.

Jimmy Moore: And so my blood sugar got down to low 50s which in and of itself isn’t a horrible thing when you have higher ketone levels.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Jimmy Moore: But I wasn’t testing blood ketones at that time. And I was definitely in hypoglycemia because I was so hungry, and I was just curled up in the fetal position. And my wife’s like, “Please eat something.” And I was like, “I’m four hours away.”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh my gosh.

Jimmy Moore: I did in the beating uh—and—and breaking that fast, but that was kind of my horror story of fasting. So when I came to this one, I said, “Jason, will you kinda pay attention to me. I will not take communion this time. God will forgive me. Uh—and – and –

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So you’re thinking with the communion, it created like a reactive hypoglycemic spike? Is that what you’re thinking?

Jimmy Moore: It really did.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Jimmy Moore: Because I had gone, like I said, over six days without eating.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow.

Jimmy Moore: Suddenly I introduce this in—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Even a tiny bit. Anybody that has ever had communion, its’ just a tiny little wafer and a tiny little cup of juice. Uh—I mean very tiny and just that little bit, Justin push me over the edge in a hypoglycemia. Now that wouldn’t happen under normal hospices uh— if I just taken that in—in a fed state.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly.

Jimmy Moore: But in a fully fasted state, uh— and my body just wasn’t ready for even that little bit of carbohydrate. So anyway, 21 days—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Jimmy Moore: I attempted and September 2015, I made it 17 1/2 days in a row which was almost triple what I had done my longest before. So I was pretty happy about that. The only reason it ended was Christine and I were actually on vacation and I was having a good time. And that was stress and I found that stress for me as a very insulin resistant man, hits me harder probably the most people. And so, I couldn’t continue with the fast. Now some people said, “Well fasting itself is a stress and it can be early. But I think the longer you do it, the longer you stay on it, you actually find that it’s very sustainable beyond the first three days. The first three days can be pretty tough and we talk very openly about that. I definitely tell people day two is gonna really suck, worse than anything. But if you get through day two, it’s nirvana after that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Awesome. Can you step uh—half a step to your right. Perfect. Now I got your whole beautiful face in there. Awesome. Love it.
Jimmy Moore: I’m trying to balance where I’m in. I ‘m in my bedroom so it’s like I –I’m like we’re doing st—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You look perfect right there.

Jimmy Moore: So the question I have for you is, what was the big difference between being able to go 30 days versus 7? I know the reactive hypoglycemia thing but it sounds like you’re at 7. Seven so, long way from 30. What was the different things that Dr. Fung was uh—coaching you on that was helping?

Jimmy Moore: I never actually made it 30 days. Uh—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay.

Jimmy Moore: The longest I’ve done is 28 days in January last year.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani Wow.

Jimmy Moore: 28 out of the 31 days uh—so wasn’t 28 in a row, but it was 28 of the 31. Again, travel rears it— reared it its ugly head and uh—kick me in the tail. Christine had to make uh— emergency trip to go see her family in Virginia. So I hop in the car and what does the stomach start doing? (growl sound) Great.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, man.

Jimmy Moore: So I end the fast. But that—that—But that’s self-awareness.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Jimmy Moore: You gotta know. You got fit fasting within your life. And so if life happens, and life happen that day, and of course we had to drive home from that. When life happens, you just have to deal with it and not fight back. Uh— listen to your body and I’m sure you preach this pretty often to your listeners, listen to your body and pay attention and respond accordingly. Don’t fight those signals that tell you something’s wrong.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I totally agree. Now when you mentioned not fat—not eating for 28 days, so what does that look like? Is it just simple as you’re just not eating? Or are there certain things that you’re doing with hydration or minerals?

Jimmy Moore: Great question.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: What else is there?

Jimmy Moore: Yes. So when I first started doing these longer fast, Justin, I thought, “Okay, I’m going to need something.” Because anybody that knows my history, you know, really eating literally all the time. Uh— it’s kind of funny to think, “Oh, not eating at all? What—what?” So, I decided I’m going to do it with bone broth, with some sea salt so that gives you a little bit of uh—nutrition there—minimal.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Jimmy Moore: Coz I’m only having a cup or two a day and this may be like 80 calories for 2 cups of bone broth and really minimal nutrition. I also did a little bit of Kombucha but I’ve since cut that out. I found it was actually tearing my gut up pretty bad. Because I thought that I would need it to preserve gut health during the fast. What I’ve found is my gut health has actually done extraordinarily well without the Kombucha because of the fasting. And so we definitely into that coz I know that’s kinda your heart and soul, too.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Jimmy Moore: You talk on gut health. So uhm— so I did that and of course, as you mentioned, hydration, hydration, hydration. I didn’t really count how much water I was drinking but I was drinking quite a bit of water. And— and the interesting thing is people sometimes they will just do water only. I would say do salt water in there as well.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Jimmy Moore: Because that helps to balance out the electrolytes and if you’re using something like pink Himalayan sea salt, you’re getting those trace minerals of the potassium and—and the other things that are gonna keep your electrolytes in balance. That’s a concern a lot of medical professionals have about these longer fast, is where do you get your electrolytes? That’s how you can balance that out. And I’m a big fan, so was Dr. Fung of, kinda adding in that salt from time to time as well.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I think when you’re under stress and you’re in a stress response, one of the big things that happens is that hormone aldosterone can go loaded and that cause you to pee out a lot your minerals.

Jimmy Moore: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So it that sounds like adding in the extra minerals, electrolytes, and also some—some little bit of amino acids in there, really made a difference for you.

Jimmy Moore: And speaking of elimination—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Jimmy Moore: You wanna get down and dirty.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh yeah, let’s hear it.

Jimmy Moore: So you actually do pee quite a bit, and—and that’s natural especially if you’re coming from a non-ketogenic state. You’re suddenly flooding your body with ketones by not eating anything. And so, when that happens, all the glycogen? Pheww— right outta you. And so what happens? You pee your brains out. And even if you’ve been ketogenic, you’re gonna have that as well. And those are kinda gross, but it’s real life, people. So here we go—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s cool. Keeping it real.

Jimmy Moore: But then the thing that come—comes out the other end, though, that’s the most interesting thing to me. Coz you think, okay, after a few days you’ve not eaten, all that’s gone. Uh-uh— I’ve gone really long times without eating and by day 12, day 15, you’re still seeing stuff come out the back side. And it—it freaked me out coz I’m going, “What else is in there?” It—it just it’s amazing we don’t realize just how much gunk is still in there. And you can definitely explain maybe why that stuff’s still in there that deep into a fast when you’re drinking plenty of water every day, you’re getting adequate salt which would ostensibly make things move along pretty—pretty good as well. Why would there be stuff still in there, 12, 15 days later?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, I think some of that, too, is if you look at the composition of your stool, half of it is gonna be bacteria-based. So It just could be bacteria that’s replicating in the gut just kinda having this kind of passing its lifecycle. That could be one aspect.

Jimmy Moore: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s definitely not the fibers in the food aspect.

Jimmy Moore: No.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That part is not there. But the other half of your stool is gonna be the bacteria so that make sense. So that’s good that you are having regularity there.

Jimmy Moore: Oh, yeah. Definitely regularity. I would say the the—the uhm—the normality of the stool was gone by day 5. In other words, it was all kinda soupy.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Jimmy Moore: After day five. And–and from what you just said that make sense.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Totally. Now the big concern that I have with patients—coz I have a lot of patient with blood sugar issues and adrenal issues—is that when you–you cut calories, you know, one of the big things you’ll see in the research is— just type in, “hypocaloric diet” and “low thyroid” or “low T3”

Jimmy Moore: Yes.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:– or “triiodothyronine” is we see the thyroid kinda down regulate. We see the body temp go down. We see the reverse T3 go up. We see the free and total T3 go down. What did you evaluate your thyroid function during the fast and all?

Jimmy Moore: Here’s the most exciting part I think about fasting. When you’re doing it deliberately as a therapeutic uh—resource, and let me give the caveat, I don’t think everybody needs to do really long fast.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Jimmy Moore: I think most people probably could get most of the benefits of fasting just from doing uh— like a 16-8 or 18-6 type of—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Jimmy Moore: —fast. If you did that, I think probably most of the population would do well. This is for those people that are the type II diabetic that are the very insulin resistant that do have a lot of obesity that they want to try to deal with. Uhm—this is uh— who it’s for. Now you mention hypocaloric diets. Here is the thing. Hypo caloric diets can be very detrimental to you. So let’s say, 5,6,700 calorie a day type of diets. That will actually slow your metabolism down. People worry about, “Oh, I’m gonna ruin my metabolism. It’s gonna slow —

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Jimmy Moore: —my basal metabolic rate.” And all this, yada, yada, yada that you hear. And the research definitely bears it out. We’ve seen it with the biggest loser contestants.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.

Jimmy Moore: Here’s the thing. When you eat no calories at all, which I’m defining as that bone broth and the Kombucha, anything like less than maybe a couple hundred calories, that actually is a far different creature than a hypocaloric state of 5,6,700 calories. Fasting actually revs up your metabolism and gives you a lot of health benefits and impacts those hormones in a different way than even eating just a little bit which blows people’s minds. So thinking, “If I just eat a little bit, then that’s better than not eating at all.” No. Actually it’s a lot better to not eat anything at all again defined as 200 calories—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting. Yeah.

Jimmy Moore: — than to have even a little bit calories. And your body thinks it starving and it’s gonna hold on to everything, whereas fasting releases it all and lets this cascade of really cool hormonal effects are to happen.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting. Now what about people that have blood sugar issue, would they tend to go hypoglycemic? How do you address that on —when you’re going to do a fast?

Jimmy Moore: So if there’s concerns about that, obviously keep a very close eye on that and obviously this should go without saying, let uhm— medical professional follow you.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Jimmy Moore: —while you’re going through this. Uhm— so don’t willy-nilly do a fast on your own especially if you have known issues like hypoglycemia. But what we’ve seen and what Dr. Fung has seen— he seen well over 1000 patients in his intensive dietary management plan uh— in Toronto, Ontario Canada and he actually has had some hypoglycemic patients come on and it actually regulates their hypoglycemia. So it doesn’t mean that their blood sugar doesn’t go down —it does. When you fast, it goes down. But the cool thing is, you have a corresponding rise in the blood ketones.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Ketones.

Jimmy Moore: — which then steps in the place of that. So that yes, you have lower levels of blood sugar, but it— but you’re completely asymptomatic of hypoglycemia.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Now what do you think about adding in synthetic ketones while doing the fast. Like the betahydroxy butyrate calcium salts. Are you concerned that if you do that while you fast, you may go up into that ketoacidosis rate? What’s your experience there?

Jimmy Moore: So I have used it uh— in the early days and I would say, use it for the first maybe two, maybe three days, but Justin, by the time you get today 3-4, you’re seeing betahydroxy butyrate levels of 4,5,6 very easily without exogenous ketones. So I would say, it’s probably a good idea in those first couple days especially day 2 where it’s hell—haha—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Tough to cravings.

Jimmy Moore: —to take it then for that purpose to kinda get through that period coz you’ll feel the effects that you’re in the fully fasted state because of the extra ketones. But then once your ketones naturally go up on their own, you can back off and completely eliminate those exogenous ketones. So I think as a beginning uh —part of the fast, absolutely. As you go higher, know and—I— I don’t think ketoacidosis would be a concern because you have to get extraordinarily high level—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 25, right? 20’ish—

Jimmy Moore: of blood ketones. Yeah. 20+ milli molar and I think the highest I’ve ever seen, and this was without exogenous ketones, was 7.6 Very naturally, again, it was early on when I started keto and I started kinda really doing this. Your body levels out over time, but blood sugar at the same time as 7.6 was like in the 50’s and so I wasn’t worried about it in the context of a lower blood glucose level. And if you’re fasting, your blood glucose level is gone drop like a rock.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it. Okay. And I’ve seen a lot of people do the therapeutic fasting with severe insulin resistance. It can be a game changer of turning that insulin resistance around right away.

Jimmy Moore: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And get them back on, you know, the right type of guy whether it’s a paleo, low-carbish, you know—

Jimmy Moore: Sure.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 60 carb, 20 protein, 10—10—or 20 protein uh—10 carb. Whatever that macro rain—

Jimmy Moore: Right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You figure it out with your clinician and work on that. I think it’s a great starting point. My issue is with the low-calorie. I always see a lot of patients just automatically they tend to go lower calorie to begin with. And it’s hard to see if their fatigue is from a low-calorie issue.

Jimmy Moore: Yes.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: —or adrenal, thyroid issue. And the calories you can be driving all of the above.

Jimmy Moore: It could be both exactly where the one is feeding it to the other. And— and I do a Thursday podcast called, “Keto Talk” and my cohost on that one is a practitioner out of Arizona, Dr. Adam Nally and he sees 10, 15,000 patients a year. And so he’s seen literally everything come through the office and he says, “The biggest issue that he sees time and time and time again especially among women is they’re not eating enough calories when they go keto.” And so you gotta have adequate calories or it’s just a moot point.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Definitely the fasting is therapeutic coz we— we need nutrition to run our body and we won’t be getting those nutrients in a fasting state. But when will be doing some severe uh —U-turns with our physiology when it comes to insulin resistance for sure.

Jimmy Moore: Absolutely. That’s why you do it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Also, I had a little flashback when you’re talking about the constipation thing.

Jimmy Moore: Uh-oh.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I flashback to one of your podcast a few years back when I— you are interviewing— not Ornish, when uh — Mc Dougall.

Jimmy Moore: Yes.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And he kept on referring you to Mr. Moore—

Jimmy Moore: Ho-ho—how’s your constipation, he told me.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. He kept on saying, “How’s your constipation, Mr. Moore?” “How is it?” So I kept on having those flashbacks there. That was an excellent interview that I think uh —everyone should partake in. It was just a uhm—amazing.

Jimmy Moore: It was fun. Hahaha—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: —just you showing your patience on being able to stay calm. That was unbelievable. You’re a saint.

Jimmy Moore: What’s funny is behind the scenes, my wife could hear what was going on.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Jimmy Moore: She heard it very quickly took a turn for the worse. And she— I mean I had on mute and she was like, “Don’t let him run over you.” I’m like, “I got this—I got this.” Hahaha—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That was probably one of the podcast— one of the best podcast that I’ve ever seen. It was great. Love it.

Jimmy Moore: You gotta have fun in podcasting and sometimes talk to people that you don’t agree with and they can hang themselves.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. Well, we’ll put that topic behind us. Uhm— literally and figuratively.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So you—

Jimmy Moore: See ya.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I know. Next— what’s your experience using MCT oil or other types of ketone precursors to help to kinda push yourself into a higher level of ketosis?

Jimmy Moore: Yeah. I think they’re great adjuncts. Like we said a moment ago—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Jimmy Moore: —with the exogenous ketones in the beginning of a fast, I think anything that’s gonna give you even a psychological boost, I know that physiologically you should be getting a boost in your ketones because MCT is a precursor to that. But I think anything that’s gonna make you feel better about what you’re doing and how you’re fueling your body and—and the end goal of—of feeling better and getting healthier, is a good thing. So just be careful if you do add any of these products like MCT oil, specifically. I remember first time I was gonna—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Loose stools.

Jimmy Moore: —two big tablespoons full of this stuff—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, yeah.

Jimmy Moore: And two hours later, I can’t get off the pot. So—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hahaha—

Jimmy Moore: Hahaha—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it.

Jimmy Moore: So you gotta—It’s beware at that point and—and be prudent about it. Obviously, listen to podcasts like these. Uh— it’s gonna help you, you uhm—you know, and read up before you kinda jump full-fledged. I think sometimes a little bit of knowledge is dangerous, Justin. Because people think, “Oh well, I can do this on my own.” And you probably should not do it on your own.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I hundred percent agree. Now you mentioned that certain people the fasting may not be the best thing for, especially when there’s a lot of active stress.

Jimmy Moore: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And is that because of the stress hormones affecting blood sugar and insulin levels?

Jimmy Moore: Blood sugar and just how you feel in general. I— I think all of those things uhm— it’s just not a good idea. I mean obviously, if you’re malnourished and underweight, you shouldn’t be fasting either coz you’re gonna lose weight. Uhm— if you’re pregnant, obviously you should not be uh— fasting because you’re basically trying to build a little one inside you.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.

Jimmy Moore: You’re going to needing to, you know, feed you and that baby. Uhm —I think if someone comes from an eating disorder, like uh—anorexia or bulimia, get that under control first. Uhm— and just— and children. If you’re under age, and you’re still developing and growing, probably not a good idea to fast unless the only caveat I’d give to the children is unless they’re very severely—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Jimmy Moore: — obese and diabetic and this is something that could be therapeutic for them. But again, in general, children probably should not be fasting.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it. Would you say if you also have like an active thyroid or adrenal issue, would you say get that under control before trying that?

Jimmy Moore: Yeah. You definitely want to get those things under control. Uh— it might help those things, it might— but I think getting those under control through nutrition first, and then as an adjunct in the process of your healing, adding in a few times a fasting just to see how you do, is definitely there is no downside to trying it uh —a time or two, just to see how it impacts you. And— and that’s the theme song, we say again and again with what I like to refer to as the other “F word”.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Nice.

Jimmy Moore: With fasting is you just gotta try it. And if it works for you, great; If doesn’t work for you, great. Move on back to your Paleo diet, your ketogenic diet and be happy with where you are.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it. And I spoke at 2015 low-carb cruise, and one of the things I talked about was thyroid function and insulin resistance. So, if you are insulin resistant, that can definitely affect thyroid function. And fasting may be a good short-term modality to help get that insulin resistance which would thus, help with thyroid T4 to T3 conversion, too.

Jimmy Moore: And see, it’s all related.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Jimmy Moore: People like to say, “Well, I have uh— heart disease, I have diabetes, I have cancer.” Guess what guys, they’re all metabolic diseases, they’re all cut from the same cloth. Uh— thyroid disease, the same thing. They are all cut from the exact same cloth and—and knowing that, keeps you so much more knowledge and power than probably most medical professionals.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally, 100% agree with that. So looking at some of the supplements that you’re using, I know you’ve up with your own line with Dr. Adam Nally there on your Keto podcast.

Jimmy Moore: Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Let’s talk about some of the—the core or the big three so to speak. Uhm—what are those and then where do you—where do you stand on synthetic ketones, too?

Jimmy Moore: So uh— big three in terms of what the big uhm— supplements are?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Exactly. What are those big three supplements that you’re doing?

Jimmy Moore: The big three—like—haha

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Haha—

Jimmy Moore: We have two uh—two products in the line. Currently, one is multivitamin that’s very specifically uh —targeted to people on a ketogenic diet. We call it Keto Essentials. And we literally load that bad boy up with all kind of stuff uhm —and so in six pills, you get like all the vitamin D that most people would need. I believe we have 2000 IU of the vitamin D in there. We have biotin. We have uh—just a lot of things, K2, that you don’t usually see in a lot of multivitamins. You definitely can’t find this formulation in like uh— vitamin shop or anything like that. So uh— we worked hard and this is one that Dr. Nally actually uses specifically with his patients that he puts on a which is like 99% of the people that come through his door, he puts on a ketogenic diet. And then uh— uh—the other one is blood sugar tends to be an issue a lot of people deal with. And so Berberine Plus is the name of the product that we came out with there and it’s for Berberine, Banaba leaf and chromium all known to help lower and modulate your blood sugar levels. And the cool thing about that one is when you lower blood sugar, guess what also happens, you raise in the context of a low-carb, high-fat diet, you raise ketone levels. And so it helps you get into ketosis. Uhm— I would think that fish oil probably is a third one that’s really essential work we’re—we’re kinda looking into what we can do from an omega-3 standpoint. But I think getting that right balance of Omega 3’s is so essential. I personally just love cod liver oil.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it.

Jimmy Moore: And use it pretty often and definitely high quality pharmaceutical grade. Don’t buy the ones that are, you know, Walgreens or whatever.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely.

Jimmy Moore: No offense but just they’re just—they’re rancid, they’re nasty.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Jimmy Moore: And—and when you fishy burp, that’s a really bad sign—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Jimmy Moore: that you got a bad one.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.

Jimmy Moore: So— and then you asked about exogenous ketones, I’m still kind of— I’m still kind of filling that out because there’s a lot of companies out there really trying to get on this bandwagon with exogenous ketones. Uh— I think I was telling you before I came in the air, I don’t like to way some of them are being marketed.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Jimmy Moore: Into ketosis within 45 minutes or less—No, you don’t.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Jimmy Moore: You get ketones in your blood system.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.

Jimmy Moore: But you’re not in ketosis. You’re not keto adapted and then some of the other marketing is like, “Well, eat all the carbs you want, just take exogenous ketones and you’re in ketosis.” I’m like “No. No. There’s some dangerous implications there where you’re raising your blood sugar with these carbs you’re eating and then suddenly you’re raising blood keto levels. That would be a concern for ketoacidosis at some point if you go overboard.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Big time.

Jimmy Moore: So I’m very leery about this, Justin. And very open about it I do think exogenous ketones have a role in the Keto community where people that are struggling may be just starting off and they want to kinda feel some of the effects of having ketones in their blood system. This will do that for them and again, a psychological effect of, “Oh, well I already have ketones in my system, now it motivates me to go do it endogenously while I’m doing it exogenously. I think that can be—that can be a good use for them. But just these people that are pushing it and eat your carbs and have ketones at the same time, no— don’t do this. Don’t do that anymore.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I totally agree. I see a lot of these companies. They do that and they don’t really emphasize the dietary aspect of pus your physiology into nutritional ketosis by making the right diet and lifestyle changes. They’re just like “Hey, let’s forget that let’s just take this magic pill and get in the ketosis.” But we’re saying maybe do both. If you do some of that and then you make the diet changes than you can have a really beneficial effect.

Jimmy Moore: Yeah and unfortunately, I think a lot of these companies are just in it for the book.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Jimmy Moore: For the trend and, you know, Keto is very, very hot right now. I wrote Keto Clarity three years ago, and it’s still under a 1000 on Amazon. It just blows my mind how help long that book is just lasted. But it’s because so many people are truly interested and I’d— I don’t want anybody to get confused that Keto— exogenous ketones is anything close to being exactly the same as endogenous doing it through a low-carb, moderate protein, high-fat diet.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it. And what’s your take using endogenous ketones for like neurological disorders? Whether it’s epilepsy or whether it’s Parkinson’s or neurological conditions. What’s your experience with that did?

Jimmy Moore: Did you say endogenous or exogenous?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhm— I’m sorry I would be talking about exogenous.

Jimmy Moore: Okay.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So extra ketones. So let’s assume—

Jimmy Moore: Coz I heard you say endogenous—Wait a minute, uh—eat low carb and then—haha—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So endogenous is what’s happening inside. That’s the low-carb—

Jimmy Moore: Yes.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: —that moderate protein diet—

Jimmy Moore: Right. Right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And then exogenous what we’re putting into our bodies. So what’s your take with that with some of those neurological conditions?

Jimmy Moore: Oh my goodness. I think these are the people that that was made for that. O-o—other than like the Navy Seals which I know Dominique D’ Agostino’s been kind of leading the way of creating these things for the Navy Seals to kind of help, you know, enhance their mental performance.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Jimmy Moore: While they’re out there. And plus they do a lot of fasting as well.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Jimmy Moore: So they do a lot of the endogenous ketones that way. So, yeah. Absolutely. These are the very people that I think they’re trying to reach this really cool ratio of glucose to— to ketone and if they’re doing it endogenously and—and working voraciously even more so than just someone just trying to heal insulin resistance, they’re going upwards 85-90% fat and then the rest is protein, carb. They’re doing really hardcore trying to get those ketone levels up for a therapeutic purpose. So don’t misunderstand me as, “Oh, I’m gonna go eat 90% fat. Jimmy Moore said it was okay.” No, I didn’t. For the purposes of Parkinson’s and—and some of the things that you mention, I think it, along with exogenous ketones, can be very uh —very therapeutic for those people because quite frankly, the brain— your fat head, by the way, Justin—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Jimmy Moore: And so am I. We all are. We’re all like we have— was at 70% fat—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Jimmy Moore: —in our brains. And there are some glucose uh— functions in the brain but your body makes all the glucose you need endogenously. So you don’t have to eat, you know, uh— extra glucose in order to get it into the brain. So the brain’s gonna be fine. The brain’s actually going to be more than fine. It’s gonna be optimal when you start eating low-carb, moderate protein, high-fat. And then adding in these exogenous ketones, the brain just goes wild when you’re in a ketogenic state.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. And you talked about brain here just one second ago. Now we are— we are 70% you know, fat in the brain. Uh— Tom —Tom Naughton uh— his video, “Fat Head” a few years back.

Jimmy Moore: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It was just absolutely great. It was really emphasizing that. But in our brain, right? We look at some of the enzymes that are active in our brain. There’s one enzyme called insulin degrading enzyme. And that enzyme’s really unique because that enzyme’s also the enzyme that mops up insulin and also mops up plaque. So imagine someone spilled a whole bunch of insulin on your floor, right? And yet Mop comes in, and mops up that insulin but there’s some plaque on the other side of the floor because the mop’s so saturated it can’t mop up the plaques. In other words, that mop can only mop up so much gunk in the brain. The more insulin that’s there from the excess sugar and carbs, you have less of that mop’s utilization for the plaque. And that’s part of the mechanism of Alzheimer’s and some of these Dementia brain conditions.

Jimmy Moore: Alright. I wanna see an illustration of that on your website now. So—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Haha—

Jimmy Moore: The mop that’s dripping with insulin can’t get the plaque—Haha—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’m gonna do it. I’m gonna do it. I’m gonna do a chalk talk later this week. You got it.

Jimmy Moore: Cool.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It will be uh —dedicated to you, Jimmy.

Jimmy Moore: Cool. There you go.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So we talked about the insulin piece, that’s important. What’s been your experience with fasting or using very— like you know, 200-500 calorie diets? And I know you said below 200. I had some experience using hCG. Some of the hCG protocols—

Jimmy Moore: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: The Human Chorionic Gonadotropin. And using that to basically tap into your body secure fat sources and kinda having this appestat, you know, the appestacin or the brain kinda re-regulating that. What’s been your experience with that, if you have any?

Jimmy Moore: Can I be honest about hCG?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Jimmy Moore: I’m extraordinarily skeptical uhm— I know it’s helped a lot of people actually uh —know a lot of patients that have gone through that. I have not personally done that. Uhm— and I think the thing that scares me the most about it and maybe you can acquiesce my fear, is the— is the very, very low calorie. I think I find more benefit from being under the 200 than being at 500 with hCG. And it could just be my naïveté and not knowing enough about it, but I’m— I’m just extraordinarily concerned anybody that goes through that. Because once you go through the round of hCG and you go back to eating somewhat normally again, maybe a ketogenic diet, I haven’t really seen anybody continue to sustain the benefits from that. So that would be my only caveat concern about this.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I’ve done it with a couple dozen patients. I’ve done it myself personally. My wife tried it a few times as well. And it has worked profoundly if you do it right.

Jimmy Moore: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Couple of caveats, there’s a lot of homeopathic’s out there— homeopathic drops—

Jimmy Moore: Yes.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Don’t recommend that. If you do an hCG, you should do it the injection—

Jimmy Moore: You do the injection.Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You should do the injection.

Jimmy Moore: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And the easy way to do it as you should know because if you get a pregnancy test, you should test positive. It’s a great way to freak out your husband, by the way. Okay.

Jimmy Moore: Test positive— Will a guy test positive for pregnancy as well?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I —I think they will because that’s still gonna spill out—some of it will spill out in the urine.

Jimmy Moore: I so wanna do that to freak out Christine.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hahaha—

Jimmy Moore: Hahaha—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: But I tried it with a sublingual and I tried it with a homeopathic—

Jimmy Moore: Yes.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You will not get a positive pregnancy test. And again, my wife has tried it, not me. I’ve done the injection but I haven’t tried it yet.

Jimmy Moore: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: But I’ve seen it work phenomenal. It took her about one year to gain the weight back.

Jimmy Moore: Wow.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And she felt great. Going— that— In the first five days was tough, but you are able to keep it off. And again, you know ,the quick—the key is what do you go back to?

Jimmy Moore: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You go back to a really good diet.

Jimmy Moore: That’s right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: She’s kind of a Paleo, low-carb.

Jimmy Moore: Sure.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s where she—she lives. Uhm— but again, the key is don’t go back to a crappy diet. But the science behind that is the hCG is tricking the body. And this makes sense more with the female physiology.

Jimmy Moore: Right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Not so much the male. You’re tricking the body that you are pregnant and your body is tapping into secure fat stores coz it’s trying to pull calories out so the baby can be nourished and fed. So the whole idea is you’re tapping into those secure fat stores. That’s the stores you normally wouldn’t tap into if that hormonal level wasn’t there. And there’s been a study at __was the British endocrinologist—

Jimmy Moore: Right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: —that came up with this in the 60’s.

Jimmy Moore: Right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: There’s a study in the Lancet where you have two group: one without the hCG, low-calorie diet; one with the hCG. And the group with the hCG loss more calories and also kept it off longer as well. So just kinda—that’s from my experience and pretty good.

Jimmy Moore: Yeah. I’ve interviewed a few people about hCG on the “Livin La Vida Low Carb Show” over the years. So I’m curious the 500 calories is key. You’ve gotta keep it down so basically you don’t overfeed your body because you’re tapping into the body fat stores to make up for the rest of calories that you need. Is that the theory?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes and no. I— I’ve modified it over the years where I still boost the calories up a little bit more upto —

Jimmy Moore: You do. Okay.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: — thousand. I played around with that coz you still get—

Jimmy Moore: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: —similar results. And also adding in— they recommend no fats but the only exception is been for me is MCT Oil.

Jimmy Moore: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And I find it boost up the ketones the more helps with the appetite.

Jimmy Moore: I would be willing to try a 1000 calorie one with the hCG injections that— that sounds a little more prudent. I think the 500 was what just freak me out. Every time I saw that it—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’ve had so many good experiences with it with people that already have healthy diets, healthy everything.

Jimmy Moore: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And that’s like my go to with patients that are like at their wits end with their diet. Everything else is right— exercise, lifestyle, supplements, gut. That’s kind of my last go to. So I’d be curious to see your— your take on that.

Jimmy Moore: Yeah maybe will give it a go.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I love it. Very cool. So we talked about the ketone, we talked about some of the supplements which I think are really good. Now we talk about you— you talked about it before in Keto clarity kinda looking at your lipid panel Can we talk more about lipids when you’re— when someone’s reading their lipid panel, is there cut off for you? With your cholesterol so high that they should worry at all? What does that look like for you?

Jimmy Moore: Total cholesterol is that you’re referring to?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Total cholesterol. Correct.

Jimmy Moore: Yes. So I was just talking to this lady that was going in at the mail place I’d take books every day to the mail and this lady was there, and I don’t know how it came out, but her —her total cholesterol she just shared it with me. I guess she knew what I did for a living. And so, you have 620 total cholesterol and I’m like, “Okay, that’s high. I’m not really worried about total cholesterol in general, but that’s really, really high.” And so I said uhm— “So usually when your blood lipids are that high, do you have, you know, something else going on? Do you have like maybe infections in your teeth or something?” She’s like, “Oh, yeah.” and she pulls out the bottom of her teeth.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Ohh— Oh, man.

Jimmy Moore: She had six all pulled out that— that probably had infections in there from root canals that she’s had done. And this was the bad part. This was the part that just broke my heart, Justin. She just spent over $10,000 mercury amalgam galore all in her teeth. And I’m going, “I’m sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but that’s why your blood cholesterol has gone up so extraordinarily high.” So I think in the context of knowing why it’s high, it does matter. Uh—but it’s not the high number, I told her. I said, “You should be very thankful that you have that very high cholesterol because that’s the only thing that’s saving you from dying right now because of the inflammation.” And so it kinda startled her. “I just spend all this money” and like, “I know but total cholesterol can be an interesting marker if it starts to go up because it should clue you when something is going on somewhere in the body and it’s usually an inflammatory response somewhere. And teeth is a big one for a lot of people. I actually have four root canals done when I was in my early 20s, mercury amalgams.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Argh—

Jimmy Moore: And 2013, actually wrote a book, “Cholesterol Clarity” and an in preparation for that book, I thought well, I learned that infections in your teeth can be a big player in your total cholesterol. So I went and got them all cleaned up. I went to a holistic dentist down the road from here, he took all the mercury amalgam— amalgams and put good stuff in there and he cleaned up all of the root canals and the infections that had taken place. I can literally taste the infection that’s how bad it was.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh—

Jimmy Moore: So he cleaned all that up, and Justin, and in one year, my total cholesterol jumped a 100 points just from doing that. No other changes, just from doing that. And so it can be uh—uh —kinda your first telltale sign something serious might be going on. So that’s the only weight that I really give total cholesterol. I think looking at triglyceride – HDL ratio gives you a whole lot better indication.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Jimmy Moore: You know, any, maybe necessarily cardiovascular issues uh—and NHS CRP to kinda see you like the inflammatory response. There’s a lot of inflammatory uh —numbers I know that you run.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Jimmy Moore: Uhm—in—in your office. And so I think cholesterol helps to a degree, but not to the degree that most mainstream medical professionals think it does.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think you’re a hundred percent right. Anytime I see like, you know, over—over mid 300 cholesterol, the first thing I always go to rule out is make sure it’s not a hypercholesterolemia issue with it.

Jimmy Moore: Right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s just a genetic issue with the—

Jimmy Moore: Right. And I had that tested, by the way. I have a 5% chance that I have familiar hypercholesterolemia which is, no, I don’t.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right. Exactly.

Jimmy Moore: And that—And then it lead to—“Hey, maybe there’s something— oh yeah, had all these root canals, I had the mercury and that— that was the thing.” And now my— my blood sugars uh — or blood sugar — blood cholesterol is still pretty high. It’s in the 200’s but that’s not abnormal.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: No, that’s not an issue at all.

Jimmy Moore: And we can talk about the context of uh— of a ketogenic diet, that’s not abnormal.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I don’t worry until they’re into the mid 300’s.

Jimmy Moore: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: But any than that

Jimmy Moore: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: —to—where’s the HDL—where’s the HDL at?

Jimmy Moore: Yes.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Just curious.

Jimmy Moore: Yeah. HDL 75.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s beautiful.

Jimmy Moore: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So your ratio right there still under—It’s still under 4. That’s still beautiful. And at 3 ½, you have the risk factor.

Jimmy Moore: And—and 360, so yeah, exactly.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s less than 1. That’s beautiful.

Jimmy Moore: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I don’t have an issue with that. But uh— you know, but if there is an issue, we’ll run the LDR receptor, the P—PCKS9 test, look at the genetic markers there and if those aren’t there, we’re doing all the things that you mentioned. Also looking at thyroid function.

Jimmy Moore: Yes.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Because low thyroid function cause— can cause—

Jimmy Moore: Will raise cholesterol—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: to creep up.

Jimmy Moore: Yup. Do you run an NMR at all?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhm— Yeah. I do run an NMR. I was using the VAP before.

Jimmy Moore: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: But then after they got shut down.

Jimmy Moore: Yes.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So I’ve been doing more of the NMR to look at the LDL number.

Jimmy Moore: NMR is like the only game in town now. HDL Labs is gone now, and VAP is gone.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: How about—how about the Cardiac IQ, is that still there?

Jimmy Moore: Yeah, it is. But I think NMR has a little more prominence.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Jimmy Moore: It’s got legs coz they’re like only game in the— in the subfraction game, so to speak. That I think more and more doctors are accepting that one. Although I will tell you my own medical doctor just down the road from here in South Carolina, he stopped running them. And I’m going, “Can I please have an NMR run coz I want to keep around small dense LDL particles” “Well, you’re gotta have pay for it out-of-pocket.” So insurance won’t even pay for it anymore.

They don’t have a code for it anymore at my local doctors office. So I run it on my own anyway I can— I can do it NMR for about— about 50 and done and done. And in that way, I know where I am.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. That’s so smart. And again, I’m imagining the main reason why they’re not running it is because there’s no modality that they can do to change it.

Jimmy Moore: Well, they don’t know what to do with it. That—mainstream medicine they even run the standard lipid panel. They don’t know what to do with it. So that— that’s we’re getting deep into an issue with the mainstream medical system. They run so many numbers that they just don’t know what to do with it. “Okay, you’re normal.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Jimmy Moore: And it’s like normal of what?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: What?

Jimmy Moore: Sick people.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Exactly. And also the fact that uhm— also when you’re looking at those test, typically the prescriptions gonna be a statin.

Jimmy Moore: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: The statin won’t touch particle size and won’t touch LDL number per se.

Jimmy Moore: Right. Well kudos to this uh— this postal lady coz she said, “They tried to put me on this medicine. I told them, I ain’t taking that ever.” It’s like, “You go girl.” Uh—so she was—she was really— do have a fasting story regarding uh—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Jimmy Moore: —cholesterol when I did that September 2015 fast, 17 ½ days, I tested all of my blood markers uh —cholesterol before and then did it after. Do you know when that 17 ½ days my total cholesterol dropped a hundred points. And my LDL-P which was on the NMR like profile test, it dropped a thousand points.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Whoa.

Jimmy Moore: And small LDL was pretty low already but it even dropped another hundred or so points. Uhm— triglycerides obviously went down as well. HDL slightly went down which you’re not eating food, that make sense coz—since dietary fat tends to help your HDL go up. I wasn’t eating anything so uh— really interesting markers. And then the uh— really advanced lipid marker lipoprotein little-a actually was in the 400’s. I’ve always had really high lipoprotein little-a, like 423, and it dropped down to like 130 in 17 ½ days.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow.

Jimmy Moore: Nothing moves that. No drug moves your numbers that quickly. So uh— I was pretty impressed by the— just the therapeutic fasting. Just that little bit of fasting how profound it move those cholesterol numbers.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: What If you’re someone that was going to their conventional position. Could just fasting for a day or two make— move the needle in the right direction so you’d be out of that danger zone?

Jimmy Moore: You know I didn’t test after a couple days. That— this will be a fun test to do.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Jimmy Moore: Like uh— I like do daily NMR’s or whatever—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Jimmy Moore: I just see when that— that dramatic shift takes place. I don’t think it would in that very short amount of time.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Jimmy Moore: Uh—I know some people they try to get like good health insurance or life insurance policies based on the cholesterol numbers.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Jimmy Moore: I never get those preferred rates because I can’t get my numbers down that good. Uh— although, uh—you could do it with uh—you know, 10-day fast to try to get those numbers down. Get the good rate and go back to eating, it would go back up again. But, yeah, it’s uh— you know, I haven’t tried that but, that— would—If I could uh—make a little—If I can sell a few more books maybe I’ll do that daily NMR just to kind of keep an eye on what’s exactly happening.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s great work. Kinda doing the circle run here. We hit the fasting book, fasting clarity; hit the Keto clarity; we hit the cholesterol clarity; Are there any other key topics within those three books to give out now, that you wanna hit on? That you just feel is really important to address?

Jimmy Moore: Yeah. I mean, we’ve hit all the—the key points with that. Uhm— I’m obviously still writing books and still continuing to— to try to get information out there. The next book that I’m—I’m working on is kind of a sequel to Keto Clarity uh— coz all these people read that it was meant to be an entry-level book. I get some weird reviews on Amazon top uh—uh.com sometimes for Keto Clarity like, “It’s too simple.” Like, “Yeah. That was the point, dude.” Hahaha— I wanted it to be entry-level coz keto can be a little complex. You start talking about gluconeogenesis and ketoacidosis.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Gluconeogenesis. I love it.

Jimmy Moore: Yeah. Exactly. Oh, you remember that. Uh —And so I uh— wanted to go a little bit deeper and so Dr. Nally, uh—my keto talk co-host and I are actually working on a book called, “The Keto Cure” which will take all the major disease states uh—that a ketogenic diet helps with and show you the metabolic pathway of why it works, supplements you can take that would correspond with the ketogenic diet. And as a very last resort, any medications that might be an adjunct for that particular condition. So we’re really excited to get that book out in September uh—like a settl— kind of a long-awaited sequel to Keto Clarity. Uhm— and then another piece that’s not being talked about a lot, Justin, is the whole uh— mindset. The whole uh— getting your brain in the right— uh and loving yourself in the process.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Jimmy Moore: I guess it’s a long time to say a lot of people give you the “Here’s the how to” “Here’s the practical” And some people say, “I just hate how I look.” “I just don’t know” They don’t love themselves. And so I’m teaming up with a registered holistic nutritionist named, Meg Doll. Uh— was Meg on the cruise the year you came?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: She may have been. Sounds familiar.

Jimmy Moore: Yeah. So I— Anyway, she and I are collaborating on a book called, “Keto Freedom” coming out in December. And then I just signed the contract as of the recording of this, like today, uh —for my next book after that called, “Weight Loss White Lies” There are so many shysters in the weight loss industry and I’m so sick and tired of seeing them on television and in print magazines. And people believe the garbage that’s put out there about what they need to do lose weight. And so, “Weight loss White lies” is gonna come in 2018 and I’ve already asked my publisher, “Can I please just rail against everybody?” So they don’t let me do that and uh— really excited to get that out there. Constantly working on new projects trying to uh— help other people, keep doing my podcasts. I do five podcast a week now between the three shows. So stays busy.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s great. You are the major podcast guy over the last 10 years. Now you’re into the whole authorship field. You’re doing great. Any of those book hits uh—hit New York Times best seller?

Jimmy Moore: You know, Keto Clarity came so close.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Aww—

Jimmy Moore: It was 22 the week it would’ve hit. And—and some of the behind-the-scenes games people may not know about. There’s publishers that actually pay their way to get on the list.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s hard.

Jimmy Moore: And so—You know publishers pay their way to get on the list the week I would’ve it. Uhm— and so I missed it by two on that one. The Ketogenic Cookbook hit 21.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Aww— one away.

Jimmy Moore: But “Ketogenic Cookbook” did hit International Bestseller status as did the uh—the book after that one uh— was “The Complete Guide to Fasting” that came out on October uh—we originally called it “Fasting Clarity” but then we got into writing it and, “Oop, we need to change the title.” Coz he didn’t want to necessarily stick with the same form as the clarity books. And so “Complete Guide to Fasting” also it sold out in six hours on Amazon.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow. Unreal.

Jimmy Moore: The day it came out.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Everyone listening, let’s help Jimmy get to number one here on his next book.

Jimmy Moore: Hahaha—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, thank you. And yeah, we’re really excited about “The Keto Cure” and yeah, we’re gonna keep doing our thing, man. Getting the message out to think we’re all passionate. All of us in this community are passionate just about educating people and helping them change their lives.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We’ll put the links below to all the Amazon— all the Amazon links to the books of people can easily access that. Awesome. And if you want to get in touch with Jimmy, livinlavidalowcarb.com livinlavida pod —livinlavidalowcarb podcast, and as well as the Keto talks, right, with Adam McNally?

Jimmy Moore: Adam Nally.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Adam Nally.

Jimmy Moore: Yeah. He’s been called McNally. He’s been called worse, so—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hahaha—

Jimmy Moore: that’s just from Jimmy Moore. Like Keto Talk with Jimmy Moore & the Doc on Thursdays. And then I have a brand new podcast that started with Dr. Fung in January called, “Fasting Talk” so that’s also out there, as well, fastingtalk.com

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it, man. Excellent. And last question I asked all my guests here. If you’re stuck on a desert island and you can only bring one supplement with you, what would it be, Jimmy?

Jimmy Moore: Well, I wouldn’t need vitamin D if I’m on a dessert island so—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: No. You wouldn’t need that.

Jimmy Moore: One supplement— I— I would bring MCT oil.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I knew you were gonna say that. That would myself ahead of time.

Jimmy Moore: Hahaha—Or coconut oil, either one—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Something to increase uh— ketones naturally. Love it, Jimmy.

Jimmy Moore: Or to be fuelled, you know, coz if you’re—because you’re probably gonna have to fast quite a bit. So if I’m fasting, I want some fat in my body.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally makes sense. And you’d be a pro at that. I mean 28 days, man. Coz me and you in a dessert island, I think you may have me beaten, man.

Jimmy Moore: Well, I’ve got a little more uh—uh— meat on my body as well. I would survive a little longer.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I hear you.

Jimmy Moore: Awesome, Jimmy. Hold on, I’m gonna do it. His name is Jimmy Moore. Thanks Jimmy. I appreciate everything.

Jimmy Moore: His name—is Jimmy Moore.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I love it.

Jimmy Moore: Thanks so much for joining us here today on the Justin Marchegiani Show.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I love it. And again, thank you for being an inspiration on the podcast. I listen to your shows for a lot inspiration and just kinda how do I captivate the crowd and just be a really good host and kinda like prod for those good questions and that good uh—interactive feedback. So I appreciate that, Jimmy. I think the spontaneity helps and—and when you’re good friends with the person you’re interviewing, that also helps a lot. Uhm— and yeah, behind-the-scenes, I try to mentor a lot of podcasters. People don’t realize that I’m talking to a lot of these people that are coming on new and I’m happy to do that. I’ve done this a very long time and I love every minute of it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it, Jimmy. We’ll get you back on as soon as that book comes out.

Jimmy Moore: Thanks, bud.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Thanks so much, Jimmy. Take care.


References:

http://www.livinlavidalowcarb.com/

http://ketotalk.com/

https://ketoliving.com/

http://www.fastingtalk.com/

http://www.fathead-movie.com/

The Complete Guide to Fasting: Heal Your Body Through Intermittent, Alternate-Day, and Extended Fasting

Cholesterol Clarity: What The HDL Is Wrong With My Numbers? 

The Ketogenic Cookbook: Nutritious Low-Carb, HIgh-Fat Paleo Meals to Heal Your Body

Autoimmune Paleo Cookbook & Action Plan: A Practical Guide to Easing Your Autoimmune Disease Symptoms with Nourishing Food

 

Dr. Bernd Friedlander – Using collagen to promote optimal health – Podcast #126

Join Dr. Justin Marchegiani as he welcomes his special guest, Dr. Bernd Friedlander in this week’s episode all about collagen. Obtain a lot of valuable information as Dr. Bernd shares his success and expertise in his field of practice when it comes to nutrition and supplement recommendation of collagen in the athletes he trained.

Pick up on some helpful information regarding the different benefits and uses of collagen in issues like wounds, ageing and healing. Listen carefully as they discuss and relate collagen with leaky gut and other inflammatory conditions. Explore all about caloric restriction diet, its health benefits; and apply specific recommendations of these experts when it comes to improving mitochondrial function, carbohydrate, fats, and protein consumption.

In this episode, we cover:

3:57   Collagen: types, benefits, dosage recommendation

14:21   Systemic enzymes for inflammation

21:09   Glycine and Leaky gut

24:40   Caloric Restriction diet

30:58   Mitochondria

41:03   Carbohydrate and Glucose Consumption

48:33   Cholesterol and Fat Consumption

itune

 

 

youtuve

 

 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey there! It’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani. Welcome back to Beyond Wellness Radio. Today we have a great guest Dr. Bernd Friedlander. Dr. Friedlander is a researcher; he’s a clinician; also a physical therapist; doctor in chiropractic medicine; nutritionist; has years and years of experience with uh – human performance and bio hacking at the professional level, as well as the clinical level, that we see all our patients at today. So, Dr. Bernd, welcome to the show.

Dr. Bernd:  Dr. Justin, how are you? I appreciate you having me on your show. I look forward to talking to you.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, thank you. I know you’re one of the most foremost experts out there on collagen. And I love collagen for all the great benefits. It helps with hair, skin, nails, joints, and it’s such a really excellent amino acid. Would you mind – I know we were – We have a- a product that you help formulate here for us called, “True Collagen” – That’s absolutely great. It’s a collagen peptide formula which I love the peptides, that we deal with so much with leaky gut. And people have a hard time taking the collagels and in breaking it down. And this makes it a lot easier. Would you mind talking about – just kinda collagen and kinda the overall benefits and kinda what your take on it is.

Dr. Bernd: Yes. You know, uh – I got into collagen actually accidentally when I was working with the Los Angeles Raiders. I was working with uh – a number of the athletes there, especially Howie Long.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-huh.

Dr. Bernd: And I was introduced to an Orthopedic doctor back in the 80’s. And – and he was interested in my work with the athletes and how I incorporated nutrition, as well as dietary supplements to the athletes. In the 80’s, you know – they weren’t into that. They were still eating carbohydrate and uh – low fats, low protein. But now, I’d – I’d sort of turned around by increasing the protein levels and reducing the carbohydrate. And uh – that time, I was working with Knox Gelatine.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhm.

Dr. Bernd: They developed that formula for me – that I was able to use with my athletes. So the Orthopedic doctor was telling me that he reverse his own serious uh – disherniation that he developed as an athlete. He was a premier high school athlete that was uh – highly recruited by five different universities. And he ended up in Michigan. And his first year in Michigan playing football, he uh – ruptured his disc so badly, that it really destroyed his uhm – possibility to even be a professional athlete.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhm.

Dr. Bernd: So he – he ended up going to medical school training and become an Orthopedic doctor. And he tells me, instead of trying to get surgery done, he looked at every aspect of the  uh – spinal cord and to see how he reverse the genera – generative condition – condition that he’s developed-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Bernd:  from sports by healing himself. So he started using Knox Gelatine collagen at that time, which was not a true collagen.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Bernd: Uh – it was more in the gelatin form.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Bernd: But he started taking 3-4 packets a day with vitamin D, vitamin C, and calcium. Within six months, the pain was gone. Within one year, he never needed surgery. So we – we discussed this while I was working with the Raiders. How it – beneficial collagen is. And I started really researching at extensively with uh – Linus Pauling.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow!

Dr. Bernd: And we got the experts in the field and discovered that 99% of the spinal cord is made up collagen. It was the primary protein that developed the spinal cord.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow!

Dr. Bernd: And then the nerve, myelin sheath, etc. developed from that. And I started realizing that collagen has many properties: anti-inflammatory, uh – repairing, regenerating, cartilage repair. It also repairs tendons and ligaments. It’s the only protein that does that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I love it. And then regarding the collagen types that you like, you’re a big well – The main collagen that were doing is getting from grass-fed beef. That’s the true collagen, and that’s type I and type IV, correct?

Dr. Bernd: It’s actually type I and type III.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I and III.

Dr. Bernd: Uh – yeah. I and III is predominantly what the human body is made out of. Type II has a little hyaluronic acid.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Bernd: And that’s usually from chicken cartilage.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Bernd: Uh – the palm wine never got into chicken cartilage because most of the uh – producers of chicken cartilage are not naturally-fed.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Bernd: They use soy in corn. And that disturbs the hormonal balance uh – of the chicken, as well as the thyroid – disrupts thyroid function. So I stayed away from chicken cartilage.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s amazing. That is very good. So I and III is gonna give us the best bet. Now with the collagen peptides II, we have the digestion benefits, right? Coz they’re in peptide form. That’s why when you put the regular gels in it, it kinda – it makes basically gello. That’s kinda where the word “gello” came from. But this – this type of collagen that you’ve created, you put in a peptide form, so that- when you put it in the water, you literally can see it dissolve and breaking down right in front of your eyes. Can you talk about how you guys do that? And then, how does that benefit us from an absorption standpoint?

Dr. Bernd: Well you know – uh going back to the days that I would work with Knox Gelatine, I – we were discussing this with the R&D Department. And R&D Department put on a show – uh that’s an entirely uh – advance in the field of collagen peptides. They’re not willing to make this kind of collagen. It was too extensive and too high, pricey. So they sort of connected me in how I need to achieve that kind of peptide. Once I started reviewing the research, and working with chemists, and the ideal thing is, you want a hydrolyze uh – peptide form of collagen. So it is 99% absorbed immediately.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it.

Dr. Bernd:  -with 5 to 10 minutes, without any digestive enzymes requiring. As you know, every amino acid protein out there, you have to break it down to hydrochloric acid and pepsin.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Bernd: And through the stomach.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Bernd: And the uh – pancreas, through the pancreatic enzyme, trypsin and chymotrypsin. And you also need B6 to convert the amino acids to peptide.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Bernd: Collagen doesn’t require any form of enzymes or B6 to be broken down. It’s immediately delivered in the blood to the area that it needs to repair, regenerate, or work with.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I love that. So that just really increase the absorption. And with the True Collagen, I play it around to make the neo cell chicken cartilage, that you mentioned. And you can just pour some of it in there. And you can see it literally become emulsify kinda right before your very eyes.

Dr. Bernd: Right. And the other thing about your collagen that you have is, it is the most molecular weight collagen on – on the planet right now so far – very low. And the other thing that don’t people understand compared to all the other collagen out there, our molecule levels is extremely low. Therefore, it’s gonna be assimilated, absorbed immediately. Number two: the density that the structure and the density of the collagen is very important. Uh – we were able to also bring down the density structures to the levels that it is now truly absorbable, uh – utilized more efficiently and you are producing more minerals out of these collagen, as well.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I love that. And I know we talked in the past about dose. And the typical recommendations I have for my patients currently 10-20 g a day maintenance, and after 40 to 60 grams if you’re trying to get aesthetic benefits, or if you’re trying to rehab joint issues or disc issues, would you say those recommendations are correct?

Dr. Bernd: I would say for maintenance for skin – We did a study with animals back in Japan.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow.

Dr. Bernd: In the early 2000 and we found that 10 grams of collagen restores elasticity in the skin, and also helps with bone density. In one year working with human, you want to increase that level because there are so many other factors. You know, density, and structure, and inflammation. So I find that if you do 30 grams in the morning, and 30 grams in the afternoon, or early evening, I have seen people were there joints, shoulders, rotator injuries uh – torn rotators, bone to bone cartilage in the knee or the hip, I’ve seen people and have people testimonials come to me saying that they are able to walk the first time, or use weights for the first time. And using that program about 60 grams. We found about 40 to 60 grams restores and repairs and regenerate injuries.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Now what did you notice with your chiropractic patients clinically in practice. What were you seeing with their disc issues? Let’s say before using collagen to after. What were you noticing in their recovery time? How much has it improved?

Dr. Bernd: Well, very important, uh – going towards my latter part of my years with the athletes, I notice the athletes dramatically improved and recovered much faster when I started them on collagen, especially with the Raiders and the Rams, and some of the other athletes. And then when I started introducing it to my patients, I’ve noticed that I was able to facilitate their healing dramatically. So I – I didn’t need to treat them as long – as much as I used to. And they’re are able to function much faster and the pain – the first thing I hear from the patient is dramatically that the pain goes down dramatically. And that’s so important, as you know, reducing – reducing pain and inflammation. So that’s the first thing – inflammation and pain went down dramatically fast. And then within weeks, they’re able to uh – function and move their joints, and are able to sit, or drive without having that discomfort in their lower back.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Now are there any herbs that you find with really synergistically help reduce the inflammation. Maybe Boswellia or Curcumin? Anything you’ve done clinically?

Dr. Bernd: We’ve done a lot of research and I’m on the board of the AMM University College of Pharmacy and at the Ohio State University, College of Medicine and then working with the UC Davis, UCLA. Uhm – we found that there’s many plant’s out there that are very highly anti-inflammatory. And you mention Boswellia being number one.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhm.

Dr. Bernd: We found Boswellia by far number one. Ginger, rosemary, uh – actually turmeric and curcumin was not in the high rank.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hm.

Dr. Bernd: It wasn’t extremely as powerful as some of these other herbs but Boswellia, definitely number one in every situation we did research. And then we found ginger rosemary close. All the other uhm – you know uhm – spices you see out there. Cardamine is very powerful as an anti-inflammatory. And – but then if you add turmeric with ginger and rosemary and Boswellia, it does enhance. But if by itself, it didn’t to as much. Uhm –my number one thing, I’ll tell you by far, is Aspirin. I find Aspirin works all the time for me, because aspirin is a natural inflammatory works on COX-1 and COX-2 inflammatory uh – prostaglandin. The only one that deals with 1 & 2. And number three, it has tremendous antioxidant ability, as well as helps trabecular, meaning it restores bone back with collagen. When taken aspirin with collagen, it helps to bind the collagen to the __ and glue them together.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So regarding the aspirin, would it be just as good or better to do the white willow bark instead? Just to avoid some of the gut or liver side-effects?

Dr. Bernd: No. There’s really not that much that – the problem with people with aspirin is that they already __and vitamin E reduces ulcers dramatically. Uhm – if they take baking soda with aspirin, they can actually buffer the aspirin. So they can take 6 – I have people take 6 to 10 aspirins a day with baking soda. And they have no problem. And that affects uh – one of the side-effects that was – that one person who is dealing with the structural problem was on my collagen, and he started taking 6 to 10. His stomach cancer actually went down dramatically and his father who’s an MD, was amazed by the results. And so he incorporated aspirin for his patients for other conditions such as you know – colon and stomach cancer.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And aspirin, doesn’t it have the side-effects of like – Ibuprofen or the NSAID family?

Dr. Bernd: No.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: The Non Steroidal Anti Inflammatory Drug, correct?

Dr. Bernd: It doesn’t cause any liver discomfort or uh – those of the detoxification system.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Bernd: And it has so many – it also reduces fatty acid synthesis, which is a – a byproduct of our mitochondrial deficiency.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhh.

Dr. Bernd: When you – if you take aspirin and collagen and coffee in the morning, it doubles the uncoupling mechanism of the mitochondrial proteins. It enhances the mitochondrial to achieve ATP more efficiently.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Interesting. And I think aspirin was created from the while willow bark, too. Correct? So that did come to the herb originally.

Dr. Bernd: Uh-hmm. Yeah. And you can use, like you said, why throw a bark? It’s exceptional. It works. Uhm and usually takes a longer time, but once you have enough in the body, it does work as well or even better than aspirin.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very interesting. What’s your take on systemic enzymes for inflammation?

Dr. Bernd: Uhm, you know, for inflammation, I find – I’ve always use Remylin, number one, for that purpose, and Parsitan. Remilyn-Parsitan works for me the most effectively. Uhm – and the research that I look at, it’s always well known in athletic performance. That Remilyn was always number one. Uhm – chymotrypsin, trypsin – all these things uhm – they have some anti-inflammatory mechanisms, but they work more on breaking down proteins more efficiently. And that’s their function. Remilyn and has more of an anti-inflammatory mechanisms. Uhm – uh you know, dealing with prostaglandins-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Prostaglandins, right. Interesting. And what about topical effects of collagen? Maybe putting it on topically or taking it topically? Maybe they heal cuts, or wounds and scars? What’s your take on the best protocol for healing cuts, wounds, and scars?

Dr.Bernd: Well the one you have, the True Collagen, that you uh – provide  to your patient because of the molecular weight is extremely the lowest on the market today. It will penetrate down through the skin a little bit more efficiently. Most collagen, the molecular weight’s too large.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Bernd: It’s like a hyaluronic acid. They are different molecular weight, hyaluronic acids, uh – and for the joints, you need the lowest molecular weight to get in there. For the skin, you don’t need that much. But in collagen, you will get some effect from the low molecular, low density weight of collagen. And people have made like uh – like a topical paste. You know –

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Bernd: – on their skin. And I’ve heard incredible stories. I myself take it orally.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Bernd:  And I’ve noticed just orally, everybody says I’m 68 and I’m out on the sun everyday. They all say, “you got incredible skin, how do you keep it that way?”It’s gotta be collagen because I don’t much other than that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. I was – I saw Dave Asprey maybe a year or two ago at the Paleo conference and he was getting all these compliments on his hair growing out, and his skin is vibrant. And he’s just really up to collagen – so 60g a day. I think that mirrors your protocol. The 30 and 30.

Dr. Bernd: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And he was crediting a lot of his skin and hair benefits from the higher dose collagen as well.

Dr. Bernd: You know, interesting uhm – three years ago, I had dinner with uh –with one of the doctors, uhm – and he had a client in Chicago who’s working out, who is an osteopath there. And she was working out in the gym, and right across the street is uh – Oprah Winfrey.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow!

Dr. Bernd: Oprah Winfrey is very close to this guy named Alexis. Alexis is a Bulgarian Powerlifter.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Bernd: He had a gym called – in Chicago and he was telling me that, he was taking my collagen – that collagen peptide that you have. And he’s – he has severe bone to bone loss of cartilage on his knee from lifting over 33,000 lbs over his head. And he’s record holder in his country and he was a former Olympic uh – lifter. And he was complaining every day about pain. So the doctor says, “well, let me give you some of this collagen I’ve been taking” So gain a couple pounds of it and in a couple of days, he went back to her and said, “this is the most incredible thing, uh – I started taking uh – 60g of this stuff and I noticed my pain went down” So he went on 100g a day level for six weeks, went to see his Orthopedic doctor, he took an x-ray of his knees, and he says, “My God, what’s going on? You’ve got cartilage growing back in your knee.” And he says, “you know, I noticed __. So uhm – it was – you know, he’s on a hundred because he’s a massive individual. He’s huge. You know, he’s like a football player, but very short and stocky. So when you’re in that kind of dense person and athletic like he is, you need to go even higher.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it. That’s make so much sense.

Dr. Bernd: And you don’t have to be on it all the time. You don’t have to be on it – I read from a leading article way back in the 50’s, 60’s from uh – MD, and he was giving everybody bone broth, chicken stock and collagen from different sources. And he was adding it every single day to their diet. And that’s how he restore their health completely.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I love it. That makes so much sense. And are there any topical products out there on the market are you aware of that you can take in conjunction with the collagen, but topically to put on in any cuts or wounds or things like that to help improve healing and recovery there – reduce scarring?

Dr. Bernd: You know, Yeah. You know – I mean if you ever have a problem with any situation, hydrogen peroxide works so easily and so fast in wound healing. And also somehow, basal cell carcinoma you may see it disappear. Uhm – vitamin E and vitamin C are my two favorite.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhm.

Dr. Bernd: Because vitamin C and vitamin E and hyaluronic acid together, and it is one of the best because you know – Vitamin C and collagen are so complimental to each each other.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes, they are.

Dr. Bernd: They work – work synergistically together and uhm – when you have enough Vitamin C, it enhances collagen function and also collagen does the same thing to vitamin C. So having vitamin C just as itself has profound effects.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s great.

Dr. Bernd: And if you get – yeah. If you above 10% of the solution, then you gonna see results.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Is that a 3% hydrogen peroxide? Or is that a food grade?

Dr. Bernd: Uhm – Yes, I’ve used even food grade where I mix it a little bit so I get it down to about 10, 15%. And I myself has a couple of uhm – you know a couple of thins on my – on my nose from being outdoors. I play professional soccer all my life so I’ve been outdoors all my life and then tracks. So you develop this little sunspots.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Sunspots.

Dr. Bernd: And I put it on there, and it goes away – it’s gone. If I have, with a Q-tip, I use it topically, and it stings. You want to get it to the level where you have a sting out of it. For about three minutes, it stings and then you just let it go, and the next day, add another one. And then in a few days, it’s gone.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it. That’s great. Excellent tips.

Dr. Bernd: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And then let’s talk about some of the gut healings. I know you mentioned just bone broth a few minutes ago, and I know Dr. Natasha Campbell-McBride, the person who created the GAPS diet to help people with gut issues, the gut and psychology syndrome diet. She talks about bone broth and bone broth is really high in glycine. That’s one of the major benefits of glycine. And we know glycine is also really, really, really high in collagen along with hydroxyproline and.

Dr. Bernd: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Can you talk about how glycine really helps to work to heal the gut?

Dr. Bernd: Well collagen and glycine – you know that some – the wall – the lining of the wall is pretty – even in the arteries. People don’t understand that Linus Pauling told me this many years ago, that the lining of the walls of the arteries, of the gut, is predominantly the teflon to smoothness –

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Bernd: – is made from collagen. That’s why he was a big promoter of lycine, and proline, and vitamin C in his program. It’s because he wanted to increase the – the Teflon, the smoothness, elasticity of the lining of the wall. The cell membrane where uh – nutrients go in and out, water retention in sodium potassium – It’s all controlled by collagen proteins such as glycine. And it helps to heal the gut by sealing the leaky gut syndrome. The gut junctions which get inflamed. And they start you know – proliferating with uh – holes because of the inflammatory mechanisms. And collagen seems to seal that. So if people start taking collagen with their meals, they don’t have the symptoms of leaky gut or Crohn’s or IBS or colitis. They don’t get that kind of symptoms because collagen helps to reduce the inflammatory mechanisms by suppressing MMP-9, which is a major inflammatory component. And – and

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhm.

Dr. Bernd: Collagen is one of the few that reduces the MMP-9 uhm – mechanisms that causes most of the inflammation in the gut and it does that. And glycine does that. So does glycine, choline and alanine. And – and even a little glutamine in there. So you’re gonna get that healing effect that happens. And you’re right, you know – the endotoxins that we consume and produce in the gut, when it leaks out, it causes all your inflammatory conditions, neurological conditions, you know uh – Parkinson’s, Alzheimer’s. All these things are caused by that. Arthritis is another component of leaky gut syndrome. So the more collagen you take, the more you having more protection in supporting the lining of the wall and reducing the inflammation.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting. Yeah, I see that. That’s the matrix metalloproteinase nine.

Dr. Bernd: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And there’s a couple of studies I’m looking at – one here, right now on Pubmed in the Journal of Development. They’re talking about that being really – being modulated by collagen matrix formula. That makes sense.  So it’s really helping to modulate the MMP-9, thus helping to reduce inflammation and improve joint inflammation recovery.

Dr. Bernd: Yes. Yes. We got many benefits from collagen. It’s not only just repair and generate, but protection. And also another big thing, you know – uh one of the biggest areas I – I worked on was a caloric restriction diet.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Bernd: And it wasn’t about 20 years later after working with Roy Walford.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Bernd: And I uh – I started realizing what is uhm – what are the benefits of caloric restriction diet? Well the major benefits, I started reviewing every single paper from Richard Miller –

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Bernd: to Lopez to Aschinger and others is that –

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Autophagy.

Dr. Bernd: Yeah. By increasing autophagy –

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Bernd: And by reducing inflammation and iron, and reducing polyunsaturated oils, which are the major contributors of ageing.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Bernd: But here’s what I started, if you reduce certain inflammatory proteins like, methionine, cysteine, and tryptophan, which are devoid in collagen. Now I understood why collagen is such an important protein because it’s devoid of three major amino acids that contribute to basically oxidative stress.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhm.

Dr. Bernd:  Glycation, thyroid dysfunction – all proven by these low caloric restriction diets that they saw the markers of what they are looking work for. The stresses on the body, the epigenetic genes that are – are expressed by reducing uh – caloric restriction. It all comes back to these amino acids. There was a link to all these three researchers Richard – Miller –

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Bernd: work on this, who’s a PhD, MD and some other people like Lopez and Aschinger

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Bernd: And the others like that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Bernd: It showed that collagen devoid of this, is the only protein out there that is safe to consume on a daily basis, that have the caloric restriction benefits.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: But you don’t see any problems with – I get that. So maybe we can apply some intermittent fasting in such –

Dr. Bernd: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: – to our weekly regimen. That makes sense. I get that, but eating like grass-fed meat or like fresh salmon, or foods that have a serotonin or 5-HTP or tyrosine in it, is that gonna be okay? Is that gonna cause a problem?

Dr. Bernd: Eventually the serotonin issue raises estrogen and with my cancer patients – I’ve treated over 14,000 patients, and estrogen and serotonin is very high in almost all of them. And they’re contributing to uh – reducing thyroid function, number one.  They also increase nitric oxide and histamine, which is a contributing factor to endotoxins, leaky gut syndrome, and brain function. So what I’ve also discovered, if you compliment collagen with uh – these type of foods-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Bernd: That are high in tryptophan, it sort of reduces the uh-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Bernd: The damaging effect of-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Bernd: of tryptophan, methionine and cysteine. So collagen balances whatever foods you gonna eat. So I remember uh – a very famous MMA cage fighter.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Bernd: And working with Chris Cyborg who’s number one in the world.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Ohh.

Dr. Bernd: undefeated. When she was on whey protein, she had a lot of distention and bloating, and gut issues.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Bernd: When we added collagen in a higher level, all the symptoms went away completely. But when she stopped with collagen, they came back.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting.

Dr. Bren: So it was – So that’s why she realized that how important was collagen to her supplement because it reduced the inflammation, the gut, the bloating, the distention, and the fatigue that she developed from having that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. So you think maybe there was a good parity with the collagen adding the extra glycine hydroxyproline-proline with some of the higher amounts of  sulfur amino / glutathione precursors in the way. You think that kind added a good balance to it essentially?

Dr. Bernd: Yeah. And one of the – you gotta be careful with glutathione and sulfur groups, uhm – In all the research that we’ve done and I’ve looked at, maintaining an oxidative uh – metabolism, that means you now looking at the redux signaling. You got glycation of glucose –

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Bernd: Oxidation of glucose. It’s how everything works and then you have the reduction stage as the byproduct of energy. Okay, you get the reduced state. You don’t wanna convert to reduced state the NADH back to NAD+

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Bernd:  That’s where all the sciences go on. So maintaining a highly NAD+ state, maintains longevity and – and reduces the chances for heart disease, cancer, and diabetes. And by reducing these amino acids, that I mentioned, these amino acids – even the glutathione amino acids uh – maintain the body in an NADH state in a reduced state. And you want to convert that back to NAD+ And the amino acids that do that, are your choline, lysine, and glycine. You know lycine, choline and glycine are the major ones to contribute to an oxidative state.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very interesting.

Dr. Bernd: Yeah. And that’s why –

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Go ahead. Yeah.

Dr. Bernd: That’s why a lot of the stem cell clinics – are the Ahvie Herskowitz in San Francisco uses my collagen to prep the body to make more stem cells. So when he does stem cells from either the fatty tissue or the – you know from the bone, using bone marrow.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Bernd: He’ll prep the patient up with collagen because it doubles the stem cell function and improves the stem cells.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love that. And you’re just referring a lot of the various pathways that are involved in the Kreb’s cycle which has to do with the mitochondrial function. I wanna talk about that in just a bit. And you were talking a lot about these reducing agents. And just for the listeners at home, all our reduction agent is a –takes on an electron. Oxidation is a loss of electrons; reduction is a gain of electrons. So you have the NAD, plus the H, that’s the electron UVF ADH, too, which add the extra electron. And these electrons, these hydrogen compounds are then brought into the electron transport chain to generate more ATP. So Bernd, can you switch gears and talk about the mitochondria? Just kinda give your Reader’s Digest version of what it is, and what people can do to help improve the mitochondrial function?

Dr. Bernd: Yes. You know, going back to billions of year ago, the molecule that gave life to every living system was a bacteria, called an organelle, called the mitochondria.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhm.

Dr. Bernd: And when the mitochondria establish an envelope around itself, they created that – these organelles for energy. Every plant, every animal, every living system has – and this is what the oxidation reduction cycling is all about. And every disease state, like Edison Pharmaceuticals, working on a mitochondrial uhmmolecule that increases mitochondria in the brain, because all degenerative diseases they’re finding are caused by the lack of NAD+ an increased NAD H which is the reduction state of the cell.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Bernd:  And if you can increase the NAD+, you main – well we’re born – we’re born with a  500:1 ratio of NAD+ to NADH.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Bernd:  As we get older, this level starts declining to 200:1 to uh – 100:1 and then it shifts. That’s how a disease starts and that’s how the cell – everything that the body regenerates with, it requires mitochondrial function.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Bernd: Immune system functions by the mitochondria by producing energy and the byproduct of CO2, carbon dioxide.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah

Dr. Bernd: And carbon dioxide is a chemical necessary. It’s very valuable in producing energy as well, but it’s an antioxidant. It reduces free radical damage.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhm.

Dr. Bernd: – by producing CO2 and people don’t realize that’s why high altitude –  athletes train in high altitude to enhance performance and recovery. We did a study with cancer patients by putting them at high altitude; they were able to recover from their cancer. Because the more CO2 you have, the great ability to recover and to increase NAD+. And SpeckmenSpeckmen the largest study in the world on human –on animals than human, that by maintaining a highly oxidative state, uhm –all the animals that live the longest, all the human uh – uh –cultures that have the highest longevity, he discovered they all had a very high metabolic function due to the NAD+, to the mitochondria being at optimal levels. Sinclair and Garante out of Harvard, they are all working on molecules that produce mitochondrial energy by increasing NAD+ because once you have NAD levels higher, you can get hypoxia, which is one of the components to ageing, and disease, and cardiovascular disease, and then cancer. And then another thing that occurs is fatty acid synthesis which is another molecule that cancer cells switched from oxidative blood glucose they go into breaking down uhm – fats and proteins in our body to make energy for the cancer cells to you know – continue their uh – reproduction and growth.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting.

Dr. Bernd: If you switch that – Yeah. If you switch that and reduce fatty acid into synthesis – synthesis uh – reduced hypoxia inducible factor 1, you do that by increasing NAD+. That’s how you change the whole element. So, niacinamide and collagen together.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Bernd: -works the best for increasing –

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: B vitamins – B2

Dr. Bernd: NAD

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Bernd: B1, B2, you’re absolutely right and  uh– Cortisone, anything that has air and that has uh – that helps with NAD molecule. And then also reducing the inflammatory uh – conditions of the body, the amino acid that produce inflammation, the foods that produce inflamm– Iron polyunsaturated oils. One of the worst things that reduces NAD levels in the mitochondria. So you wanna reduce polyunsaturated oils and only eat –go to Queen butter olive oil, coconut oil, MCT oil. These are promoters of NAD. They’re promoters mitochondrial function and they also promote thyroid. And thyroid is the major organ that regulates the mitochondria and maintains the function of the mitochondria at the optimum levels.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So I just wanna make sure I’m hearing correctly. You talked about oxidative stress being a good thing, right? But at the same standpoint, though, iron can create more oxidative stress while I guess like the rusting on the nail that oxidative stress as well. Like that’s the rusting on the nail, right? That’s oxidative stress.

Dr. Bernd: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: How do we have both of those things that kinda seem like their almost in- in- in conflict?

Dr. Bernd: Well again and at a certain age, we can reduce the levels of iron. We need at –

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Bernd: – the age of 40 as much. So by reducing – never take iron with vitamin C. That’s the problem.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Bernd:  And iron and polyunsaturated oils are another problem. They contribute to glycation and misfolding protein.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Correct.

Dr. Bernd: So in that sense that’s – that’s okay. That’s what we have to do. But by making sure that we shift our body to a high NAD+ state with CO2, as uh – you know from drinking –that’s we get from baking soda. You increase CO2 levels, you get it from drinking mineral water like, Pellegrino or the German one called __.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Bernd: These are the good sources of natural CO2 and that keeps your body at that level.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting.

Dr. Bernd: So – so the thing is you always want to keep an oxidative of – oxidation of glucose is the major function of the mitochondria. Once it’s efficiently high and that oxidative state of glucose by breaking down glucose more efficiently, that’s how we get energy. And that’s just basically regulated by our thyroid and reducing estrogen in our body.  Estrogen and nitric oxide and histamine are the major – major contributor factors to deficient uhm –mitochondrial function and lowering thyroid function.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally understand it. Regarding the iron, too. That recommendation may be different with females to males, as women do menstruate  every month, you know, up until they go menopausal.

Dr. Bernd: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: – late 40s or late 50s. So they’re shedding some of that iron every month in their menstruation. Would you recommend therapeutic phlebotomy or just giving blood, maybe once a quarter or a couple times a year to help reduce some of that iron load as well?

Dr. Bernd: Yeah. And it’s also to produce more red blood cells and it’s like stem cells. You – you’re stimulating the body to make more red blood cells and you wanna do that. It – one of the best things to do that  is every 3 to 6 months. I have friends that do that religiously and that keeps theirs – health up and immune system up, and they seem to do really well.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very good. Now regarding some of the oxidation/reduction. So you mention the oxidation agents are like NAD or FADH minus the H2. So,  we’re missing that extra hydrogen. So basically what I’m trying to understand and kind of boil down for the patients is that we’re trying to take those hydrogen, those electrons from the Krebs cycle and we’re trying to move them over to the electron transport chain, so we can generate more energy and have better mitochondrial function. Is that the goal?

Dr. Bernd: Yes, it is.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay.

Dr. Bernd: Uhm, you know, I had wonderful discussion way back in listening to the fellow that invented the RNA DNA with cricket and wasps.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup, yup.

Dr. Bernd:  He was on Charlie Rose and about five years ago, four years ago – five years ago, he said on national television, we’re losing the war on cancer and Charlie says, “why?” He says, “we’re not looking at the Krebs cycle, we’re not looking at the oxidative uh – uh effects of glucose – oxidation of glucose in the – in the in the mitochondria.” He says if we start looking at that, and shipped back to understanding how the Krebs cycle, we can win the war on cancer. He said it on national television and he’s actually right. He says that we can increase the NAD+ levels in our body, we should be able to repair anything that’s damaged and reverse conditions that are – you know uh – created by these deficiencies. And so he said the right words and it’s all based on all the Otto Warburg-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Bernd: He said that and got two Nobel Prize. Uh, Gombert said the same thing in his works. Solley did the same thing uhm – so did Sir George

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. George. Yeah

Dr. Bernd: So did uh – William Code. They’re all – all five people and minus point agreed with all five of them that this is such an important thing about the oxidation of glucose that goes totally in a deficient or breaks down in the mitochondria due to these elements of free radical damage. And that’s why autophagy, recycling the damage and using it for energy is why you have intermittent fasting.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Bernd:  -or exercise or you know – and  that’s what caloric restriction have done. They – they help in autophagy phases –increase the mechanisms.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, so this is interesting. So we have a phenomena known as advanced glycation and products, that if we consume too much sugar in we coat our proteins with too much sugar, we get our human hemoglobin A1C levels too high, we can increase free radical stress. So where is the balance? Where is the tipping point where glucose goes too high and we create this extra oxidative stress? Is it have to do with insulin resistance? How do you measure that? How you make specific recommendations for your patients regarding carbohydrate and glucose consumption?

Dr. Bernd: Okay, very interesting. You and I, I – I started uh –working with the uh – inventor of the MRI, okay?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm. Wow.

Dr. Bernd: And we’re looking at brain chemistry. Raymond Damadian is the genius. So we’re looking at cerebrospinal fluid and Raymond is actually the founder of MRI and he founded the Fonar.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Bernd: And he says that chiropractors are the greatest people to work with because they know how to treat the cerebrospinal fluid which contributes to every neurological disease known to man.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhm.

Dr. Bernd: Okay. Concussion syndromes found uh –like the worst one was Jim McMahon

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Bernd: And I’ll share this – really important why. Jim McMahon had the worst concussion syndrome of any athlete in the football.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And just for the listeners, he was the quarterback for the Chicago Bears 86; he won the Super Bowl with them as well.

Dr. Bernd: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Bernd: And the whole story is on his website and then finally the family uh – sent Raymond uh – send Jim McMahon to Raymond Damadian in New York for a – for his Fonar. The Fonar the only true MRI that you can stand up, not recline, you get the correct posture, the correct flow of the brain, cerebrospinal fluid so you can see what is actually wrong with the body.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmm.

Dr. Bernd: And it takes 30 seconds and it is not a claustrophobia effect and it costs almost nothing to do. Any he did a whole evaluation of his brain and –and with the camera that he developed the late uh – early 2000s with the Fonar, he was able to see the cerebrospinal fluid, the ventricles and how it was damaged.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmm.

Dr. Bernd: In concussion syndrome, it is the ventricles –the cerebrospinal fluid is supposed to flow from the brain to the spinal cord.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it.

Dr. Bernd: -32 quarts a day. 32 quarts

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow.

Dr. Bernd: and half the quarts produced by the ventricles every day.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow.

Dr. Bernd: And lay – and the concussion syndromes like Jim McMahon and many others and MS patients, they’re only producing 12 quarts or less. And when he had a a chiropractor named Scott Rosa to do an active uh – uh hole to one adjustment, a – you know – atlas only.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Bernd: They corrected Jim McMahon in two treatments where his function is back to normal; his dementia is completely gone; he’s functioning full – at full state of mind. And that’s rare; you never see that. We done that with other athletes from the NFL same thing, they restore themselves back to normal and with uh – autism patients –adult autism patient, completely recovered back just by correcting the cerebrospinal fluid.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So what are the best chiropractic techniques-

Dr. Bernd: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -to help with that? I know sacro-occipital technique is great.

Dr. Bernd: Uhm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Upledger as well. You mention some of the upper cervical whether it’s Atlas Orthogonal, or cervical knee chest, or uhm Nucca. Are there any other specific chiropractic techniques you like for that?

Dr. Bernd: Well, you know, I ask that with Raymond. He believes that chiropractic in general has the best benefit. Yes, if you can isolate the atlas and adjust that correctly, he said that has been the – the best value for treating these conditions. And the results are very quick and fast. And – and another thing I was talking to a Cell Physiologist who works with Raymond, who developed the –uh – a lot of inside for Raymond to develop the Fonar. He says if you correct the thyroid, the thyroid does the same thing. It helps with cerebrospinal fluid function.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow.

Dr. Bernd: So going back to this glycation, misfolding protein.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Bernd: One of the things we found with Raymond and others, its not sugar that causes misfolding. It’s actually the wrong thing. It is the polyunsaturated oils.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm.

Dr. Bernd: – in our diet that are the major contributors to misfolding aggregation glycation of – of the – uh proteins. And sugar is so vital for a chemistry to work. Actually my cancer patients, I have the double their sugar intake by giving them more honey, pure cane sugar because that retains the oxidative state of the NAD. That’s how I get to them to switch from the reduction state of NADH back to the oxidative state of the cell.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting.

Dr. Bernd: And we found – and it sugar – going back to my 18 uh – 1800,1867, there was two William MDs followed by name of Budd (B-U-D-D).

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Bernd: – from England and another Priori (P-R-I-O-R-I). Both of them at the same period we’re treating diabetes. And you know how they reverse diabetes?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhh

Dr. Bernd: They added extra sugar from glucose, fructose such as honey and bone broth or chicken broth and they were able to reverse diabetes. There was uh – recently there was another animal study on diabetes. They gave animals a chow of high sugar and another animal, uh –mice uh –low sugar content. And the ones with the higher sugar, they were able to measure and show that the island of Langerhan’s

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Bernd: – in the pancreas was totally repaired and regenerated. They repaired and regenerated a new uh – function in that island of Langerhan’s to produce insulin again. So it was uh – so the is now showing that you know, we need fats; we need cholesterol coz cataracts are produced by low cholesterol diet.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting.

Dr. Bernd: – and statin drugs. And glycation is now contribute to – glycation is also due to low cholesterol and low sugar diet.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting. And now on a Paleo – go ahead, yup.

Dr. Bernd: No, go.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: On a Paleo template diet, you know, one of the things we’re doing is we’re really focusing on – again more high-quality saturated fats, whether it’s coconut oil, grass-fed, omega 3’s from salmon. You know, the good healthy fats are gonna be more stable and less and less lipid peroxidation be in the polyunsaturated. So, we’re doing that and then with some of these patients I’m seeing – I’m seeing a lot of diabetics, I do see diabetes reverse quite frequently with lower carbohydrate diet. I mean we see their fasting insulin above 10 and we get back below 4.

Dr. Bernd: Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  We see that re-established. So, is it because we’re changing the polyunsaturated fats in the fats? And that’s why we’re getting these results? Coz how are we – How can we get both results, you know, doing two different things? So what’s the difference? What’s the common variable?

Dr. Bernd: Uh – number one, I will tell you this – talking to these numerous Cell Physiologists at various universities such as Oregon, uh – working with Linus Pauling Institute over at Oregon State with the Tory Hagen and Joseph Bachman and all that. There’s no doubt and – and Bruce German out of UC Davis, and our Richard Beach out of NIH.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yup. Robert.

Dr. Bernd: Yeah. And Robert Ward of Utah. They all agree that we need to go back and increase our creams and butters

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhm.

Dr. Bernd: – and saturated fats.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay.

Dr. Bernd: That is the most protective mechanism we have today against ageing and diseases. And think about libido and hormones, it’s all produced by cholesterol. Cholesterol produces pregnenolone.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Bernd: – progesterone, testosterone, and DHEA.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Bernd: The major hormones that we need on a daily basis that have the greatest brain protection and protection against cardiovascular disease and cancer, is all produced by cholesterol. By reducing the polyunsaturated levels, we’re noticing that there’s less glycation in misfolding protein. So that is the contributing factor because the unsaturated oils, even the omega-3’s, the fish oils are contributing to these problems because fish oils are uh – you know, cold-blooded animals.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Correct.

Dr. Bernd: And they – when you extract oil out of the fish, you give it uh- human.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Bernd: that has a 98.6 temperature, you’re actually creating oxidative damage –free radical damage, and that’s what happens. And so by reducing the – by increasing the saturated fats, the monounsaturated fats, like olive oil-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Avocado, yeah.

Dr. Bernd: you’re protecting the body. You’re protecting the body against oxidative damage. And that is the major contributing factor. And then second, yes, your carbohydrates, pastas and bread, you know, by reducing those, you know, will help, too.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Makes sense. There’s probably also an inflammatory component there, too. Because a lot of the refined sugar is – again, the refined sugar’s a little bit different and also a lot of refined grains, too, can have an inflammatory component as well, correct?

Dr. Bernd: There was a uh– one of the article done at the Stanford Lipid Chemistry Department and talking the Buck Institute – there, a Lipid Chemistry Department there. They found by reducing these polyunsaturated oils, you actually reduce inflammation. They’ve – one of the biggest contributors of inflammation is polyunsaturated oil.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So do you suggest having any nuts at all? Or do you say, no nuts?

Dr. Bernd: No. No nuts because nut- the other problem we have in food is the uhm – you know there’s a gene called GLO 2

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhm.

Dr. Bernd: And GLO 2 is a major anti-ageing gene and it’s part of the kidney. It regulates vitamin D in the kidney. And also helps with calcium absorption in the bone. Uh – so the GLO 2 is damaged by high phosphorus foods. If you look at all the nuts, predominantly most nuts, except for maybe macadamia and cashews, which have the lowest phosphorus levels.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay.

Dr. Bernd: Uhm- the higher the phosphorus versus calcium, that is what you wanna uh – you know, look at. Any foods that have a high phosphorus coz that phosphorus  pulls out calcium out of the bone and also causes kidney problems. Some of your kidney stones and gallbladder stones are caused by high phosphorus diets.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So we wanna have nuts that have lower phosphorus, higher calcium.

Dr. Bernd: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s gonna be your cashews and macadamia nuts. Is that correct?

Dr. Bernd: Those are the two. I remember working with Robert Atkins.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Bernd: And Robert, you know, started the Atkin diet.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Bernd: His only nut that he would ever use was the macadamia. He would travel to LA and I’d meet with him at natural product show, and that’s what he would be consuming a little bit. But I do very little of any nuts at all. Uhm – I did look up the ratio of cashew, they e seem to have the lowest amount of phosphorus to the calcium level and that seems to be okay then.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting. Well, while we’re on that topic, what’s your typical – what’s your typical diet like in a day? Just give me a quick little day in the light. What’s breakfast, lunch and dinner look like for you?

Dr. Bernd: Okay. You’re talking to the wrong person since I was part of the caloric restriction diet.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh.

Dr. Bernd: You know, I had to do that. But what I –

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  In general, though.

Dr. Bernd: In general, I – we started taking a natural uhm – prescription thyroid.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Bernd: Because I started realizing how important the thyroid really is.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Bernd: As you get older, you need to optimize your thyroid. For 30 minutes, I don’t eat anything, then I have an over easy soft boil of poached egg.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Nice.

Dr. Bernd: That’s my breakfast. Then I have 30 grams of collagen with magnesium, calcium and vitamin D and I put uhm – some anti-inflammatory compounds like Boswellia  and zinc. I always have calcium, magnesium and zinc twice a day, and with collagen and vitamin C. So then I go and I work out, I- I- I work at seven days. I do core exercise, flexibility exercise, you know, I was uh – I took gymnastics in college, so I do a lot of the headstand push up kind of things because that’s what I have to do when I was in college.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Great.

Dr. Bernd: Learn how to do balancing with my body. So that’s basically my program I eat very little throughout the day. Uh – once I take collagen in the morning, my appetite diminishes quite a bit. I kinda get a little protein and fruit in the afternoon. And in the evening, I’ll have a light soup with vegetables. I love chicken wings, I like ox tail, lamb shanks.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhm.

Dr. Bernd: All the foods that are very high in collagen are – chicken wings are number one, ox tail, lamb shanks uhm – anything with bone is actually good for you. And you know, I steam – I cook all my vegetables because when you cook vegetables, you actually break down cellulose, and you increase the-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Nutrients- yeah.

Dr. Bernd: – nutrients and absorption.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: People forget that.

Dr. Bernd: So – yup. And salad’s enough a good thing because we did a study and found that salads contribute to fermentation and gut inflammatory mechanisms and growth of bacteria because of the – anything that is like a green and it’s not cooked like kale and chard and chart, you have to boil 30 to 40 minutes in order to reduce the oxalic acid.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Bernd: The phosphorus level and increase the nutrients of vitamin K.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally makes sense. Now I don’t see a lot of excess of carbohydrate in your diet, number one.

Dr. Bernd: No.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Number two, are you also adding an MCT oil, too?

Dr. Bernd: I usually take a low MCT with coffee, but not always. I’m more of a __guy. I like to increase my butter consumption in the morning. That’s how I trained my – yeah. I trained the 84 Olympic team by giving them butter in the morning for a workout, before workout.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s amazing. How bad are these athletes diets before you get in there? I mean you work with Howie Long, LA Raider guys- what was their diet like, typically? And how did you change it?

Dr. Bernd:  Uh – Howie Long is actually an exceptional guy.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Bernd: He’s one of the smartest athlete I ever came across.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow.

Dr. Bernd: So his diet was not so bad.  He was a big uhm – you know, Italian guy.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Bernd: So he made a lot of uh– but the – the sprinters like the – Ron Brown,  the uhm – Evelyn Ashford they almost – 100-200 meters sprinters, their guy was so bad that one and I was so bad that one of my sprinters who  ended up playing professional football was Ron Brown.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Bernd: And he came to me because he’s always injured. He would have ice cream and uh – those Peanut Reese’s cups. That was his main diet.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, man.

Dr. Bren: And he was wondering why he was always injured. Uh – a guy named Robert Devans, uh –  four hundred hurler, who won against Edward Moses. Uh – we changed their diet into more of a fat and protein and less carbohydrate diet. And once we did that, we started using uh – collagen from Knox Gelatine at that time.  You know, uh- it, it really helped and we got more medal winners in ’84 and ‘88 than any other country.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow.

Dr. Bernd: Because of the change of the diet. Yeah. And the key was start the morning with protein –

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Bernd: Because that’s where you increase your metabolism and your thyroid. And if you don’t start the morning with protein, your body’s metabolism doesn’t work. It slows down and therefore, you increase your – you reduce the fat burning mechanism so your body starts storing more fat in the belly.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. Yeah. My recommendation is always 30 grams of protein in the first 30 minutes of waking up. That makes a lot of sense. And it’s amazing how this big disconnect with sports and athletes, that they just cannot think of food as calories to run the engine. They don’t think of it as building blocks to also help repair the bodies. So you get guys that are making tendons and ligaments out of basic crap on their diet.

Dr. Bernd: Yeah. And they don’t understand – athletes, they are you know extremely high-intense performers and they’re working out with heavyweight. The muscles grow but the tendons and ligaments do not grow.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s it.

Dr. Bernd:  So when you start increasing the massive amounts of training, you are increasing muscle, but you’re pulling on the ligaments and tendons.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Bernd: And you’re damaging the cartilage. That’s why collagen is the only protein that helps with tendons and ligaments repair. It’s the only food that we know that has that ability to repair tendons and ligaments.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And when those tissues get damaged coz they’re severely avascular, meaning they don’t have  a lot of blood flow. So as soon as you get injured, it takes forever to repair. And these guys lose a step or two, and they’re out of the league.

Dr. Bernd: Yeah. As a chiropractor, your gonna – uh, we started using infrared lights heat.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Bernd: Infrared- uh for infrared, uh – mats, anything to restore circulation to that area. You know LED dial. So any kind of uh- you know, ultrasound. Whatever we can do to increase the circulation. That’s the problem.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, awesome. That’s great. Today has been an awesome show. Lot’s of uh- brain candy here, today. Is there any other information that you wanna address for the listeners, today?

Dr. Bernd: Well again, like what you said, it’s uh – you know, it’s maintaining a good diet.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Bernd: You know, red- especially proteins an increasing your collagen consumption uhm – you know and – don’t overeat.  We tend to eat too much in one sitting. We can actually eat smaller meals throughout the day and maintain a metabolism to increase throughout the day. And the quality of food is important. Reduce the polyunsaturated, number one of ageing. Do not be afraid of sugar and honey and put it in your coffee or tea. Actually that keeps your – uh the brain requires the most amount of sugar than any part of the body and then the heart, because they’re – they’re utilized 24 hours a day. And oxidation of glucose is the main contributing factor for these organs to work.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting.

Dr. Bernd: And you know – and look at epigenetic, how genes get turned on and off, and we now know that uh – the amino acids found in collagen, the zinc, the magnesium

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhm.

Dr. Bernd: The vitamin D, the vitamin K, the green teas- they have the greatest components to helping prevent epigenetic damage.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love that. That makes so much sense. Now, Dr. Bernd, I ask this question for everyone. If you’re stuck on a desert island and you only can bring one supplement, herb or compound with you, what would it be?

Dr. Bernd: Oh, God. Definitely – being on collagen, I would have to say collagen.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I knew it.

Dr. Bernd: Because – And I would have to say Niacinamide would be my second most important one.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it. And that’s B3. Excellent. Well, very good, Doc. Is there any ways people can get in touch with you, if they want to get a hold of you? I know your website is another great to get a hold of you. Any other information for the listeners?

Dr. Bernd: Uh you can So it’s David – Robert Boy – period – Friedlander F-R-I-E-D-L-A-N-D-E-R one zero @ gmail.com

Now understand, I’m not really in practice anymore, I’m more in consultation, research end. And working with doctors like yourself.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally makes sense. You’ve been doing this for 40+ years. So good for you. You got a –

Dr. Bernd: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: massive encyclopedia of knowledge there. Well, I appreciate that. Thank you so much. And you, too.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Thanks a lot, Dr. Bernd. Great having you on the show. Look forward to having you back soon. You have a great day.

Dr. Bernd: Thank you very much. I appreciate that. Bye.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Thank you.

 


References:

Dr. Jack Wolfson – The paleo cardiologist – Podcast #121

Dr. Justin Marchegiani welcomes his special guest, Dr. Jack Wolfson, in this interview where they discuss topics related to cardiology practice in the Paleo World. Dr. Jack Wolfson shares his knowledge, views and expertise in successful testing and treatment of his patients following a Paleo approach.

Learn all about cholesterol, including its functions in our bodies as well as the important markers like triglyceride, HDL, APOa’s contributing to cardiovascular events. Gain a better understanding on the tests involved in assessing the above mentioned markers. Learn about statins and other alternative drugs involved in the treatment process as well as valuable information about diet, supplements and lifestyle to help improve heart-related issues.

In this episode, we cover:

5:40   Cholesterol & its function

10:12   HDL, LDL APOa: laboratory tests and ways to improve these levels

18:23   Statin drugs & how our body responds to it

24:30   Markers for inflammation

29:06   B vitamins & its relation to homocysteine & heart disease

30:57   Alternatives to statin drugs

itune

 

 

youtuve

 

 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey there! Here today, we have an awesome podcast with Dr. Jack Wolfson the Paleo cardiologist, Dr. Jack. Welcome to the show.

Dr. Jack Wolfson: It’s a pleasure to be out with you. We had much fun in Paleo effects in 2016 and we’d sure be sitting out there again. And once again it is wonderful to talk to you and I appreciate your message.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Awesome. Yes, well – well, also you were the Paleo cardiologist I know. You kind of got into cardiology to the back door. You came into to the conventional medical route. You’re doing a lot of the conventional cardiology procedures and then now you’re kind of in the functional medicine-paleo world. Can you just walk our listeners through how you – how you got there?

Dr. Jack Wolfson: Yeah, sure. I mean – uh, my father was a doctor of Osteopathic medicine. I followed right in his footsteps. He was the head of cardiology in Chicago and I – you know, went through four years of Osteopathic medical school, three years internal medicine, three years cardiology. And I was out here in Arizona for job a couple of doing all the angiograms, pacemakers, all the fun stuff.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jack Wolfson: And uh – met my wife. My future wife and she is a doctor of Chiropractic and like she says, a doctor of causation and she taught me how to become a doctor of cause. And I started to change my practice, change my philosophy, get educated, open up my eyes to the reality and uh – it’s just been very successful ever since 2012 opened up my own practice at Paradise Valley. Our website is www.thedrswolfson.com and people schedule all over the world. Uh – with the us on that website and it’s really just been miraculous and reception results, you know, uh – I just can’t say enough. I, I can’t wait and say that I wish I did it earlier. In 2012, so the, the medical sickness paradigm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s great. And so when you first met our wife, how was that like? So did you think she was kind of a little quaky at first? Like how long did it you or how long did it take her to kinda get through to you and educate you? What was that like?

Dr. Jack Wolfson: You know, I opened up my eyes pretty quickly to say so. My father who was getting sick in his mid 50’s. I saw –he dies eventually at 63 of a strange neurologic disease. And I talked about this in my book, the Paleo Cardiologist or teaching what kind of happened to my father. And then meeting Dr. Heather, she started telling me it was your father, you know eat the bad food, exposed to environmental toxins, is not getting sleep and the sunshine. All these different things that really just seem so basic. And I just –a light bulb went off in my brain and I said, this is really some interesting stuff and I started to read and I looked at the scientific literature and a lot of these stuff that you and I talked about. Doctor Justin is in the scientific literature. So, you know, it’s looking at it a fresh perspective, changing my practice. And uh – you know, listen, unfortunately most medical doctors don’t listen to this message because they are stuck in the fill on procedure model and they are holding on to the almighty dollar. So they’re not gonna make a change.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally get that. I’d patient who was seeing a cardiologist and we had the monk kinda like a paleo template type of approach. You know, high quality saturated fats, keeping the carbohydrates on the lower side because they were more insulin resistance so more vegetables may be a little bit lower sugar type of fruit here and there. But this patient went in to see their cardiologist and the cardiologist had recommended the standard American diet. You kinda know that is, lower fat and 10-12 servings of grains etc. etc. and the patient asked the doctor and said, “Hey, what do you think about this type of eating plan? I mean, you know, talk about kind of a lower carbohydrate, kinda paleo approach?” And the cardiologist looked at him and said, “Well you know, what that’s exactly how I eat.” But you know, I’m kinda hamstrung by the American cardiology board and what I can recommend nutritionally going outside of the recommendation. And so I’m just curious on your take. It seems like a lot of conventional medical physicians are really ham struck – hamstrung what their board will allow them to talk about nutritionally.

Dr. Jack Wolfson: Well you know, in reality it is that medical doctors get about zero training nutrition. And this is well-documented even at Harvard Medical School. They get very little nutrition in training. So unfortunately your medical doctors are just like the last place you’re gonna go for nutritional advice. And frankly, look at most of the medical doctors. They are overweight, they are unhealthy, they take drugs themselves. So uh – they’re not the right person to go to. And as far as I’m concerned, uh – you know, listen I’m getting people better I’m telling people, you know uh – uh you know there were nutrition plan and paleo is the way to go. Our ancestors did it for millions of years. And you know, frankly if there’s any doctors that are listening and in medical doctors, you know guidelines or guidelines. But you know, it’s not uh, it’s not the law. You know, a letter in a line that you got to follow.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it.

Dr. Jack Wolfson: Well, “the guidelines” We can step outside the guidelines a little bit when we’re doing what’s best for our patients.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, even conventional dieticians that are in the hospital. It seems like they really are restricted to that food pyramid type approach. I mean think of the last really good meal if you had at a local hospital, right. I mean, I can’t think of any.

Dr. Jack Wolfson: Well, hospital food is totally embarrassing and I talked about a certain way all the time is that can you imagine, Doctor Justin into a patient’s room. And the patient has diabetes. There are diabetic diets. And what do they have on their plate – they have the stack of pancakes and sugar-free syrup. You know, why made it – It just can’t get any worse with that microwaved artificial food, you know – that they’re serving. The hospital’s the sickest place in the world. I’d tell anyone who I know who’s going in the hospital. And fortunately, we uh – you know, keep a lot of people from going to the hospital. They do windup there, they do need some form of surgery. Uh – you know, bring your own food, have a local one bring in your food, get a nice, uh – you know, you know high quality protein powder. Bring your green strings and do everything you can not to eat the hospital food.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. I 100% agree. So kinda switching gears a little bit to cholesterol coz you know, you’re a cardiologist. That’s the buzzword. Everyone’s gonna be looking for that type of a topic discussed here. How important is cholesterol to you when looking at someone’s health. Like – like, where’s the cut off where it matters and where doesn’t it matter?

Dr. Jack Wolfson: Well, you know at first I’d educate people and tell them the importance of cholesterol – that every cell in the body is cholesterol. The cell membrane which is that protective fence around the cell that lets things in the cell that belongs.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Jack Wolfson: And keep things out that don’t belong. It’s a large part of the cell membrane and how hormones and other vitamins and minerals interact with the inside cell. We teach people that Vitamin D comes from cholesterol. And digestion as far as bile acids and bile salts come from cholesterol. Cholesterol makes up all of our sex hormones and cortisol and aldosterone.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jack Wolfson: We teach them the importance of cholesterol. But then we – uh, you know, you know, we start diving in deeper into the numbers. And I talk about this extensively of course in the book. And you know, total cholesterol things like that. I mean listen – you know, when your total cholesterol is super high, let’s say numbers of like – you know, 300, 400.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Jack Wolfson: That’s definitely their problem. There’s no there’s no doubt about it. But anything below 300, we certainly want to look at the breakdowns for the particle, particle numbers, particle sizes. Same thing with the HDL, that APL will APL ratio is uh – the number one risk that factor we know when it comes to lipids. So let’s go beyond the 1970s testing and get the uh – you know, state-of-the-art 2017 and beyond test. That’s what matters.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, got it. So let’s kinda run through some hypothetical markers here. So my clinic – one of the big things we’ll look at is a big fan of the triglyceride to HDL ratio. If we see the trig’s go too high that could, could be a big sign of excess carbohydrate insulin resistance. Any feedback on HDL to trig’s ratio?

Dr. Jack Wolfson: You know – I uh, think you know if you are gonna use a 1970s panel in yeah –

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jack Wolfson: I think the panel that you’re talking about is very important as well. I think that gives us a good surrogate as far as there’s cardiac risk. If you know, you’re producing too many triggers, like you said from – uh, too much carbs, too much sugar, insulin resistance. I mean that’s clearly in every study linked to cardiovascular events, cancer, on and on. Uh – and that low HDL, you know it’s important. When you look at HDL, it’s nice to break it down into APOa1. APOa1 is a protein that is on the surface of the LPL. And that really has to do with the HDL functionality because – uh, clearly we know from studies, where you raise HDL certainly with pharmaceuticals, estrogen for example, didn’t change outcomes. In fact it made outcomes worse. So raising HDL as far as a number is not necessarily a good thing. We wanna raise the APOa1s which is a sign that we are improving HDL functionality because HDL functionality is really the key because HDL is responsible for reverse cholesterol transport.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Jack Wolfson: Where you’re pulling – pulling basically going cholesterol from plaque and recycling of that to the liver. That’s what it’s really about.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Great. So when you’re talking about increasing the APOa1s that’s what you said. That’s primarily gonna be done with what healthy saturated fats like grass-fed meat, coconut oil and even fish oil. Is that the best way to improve those levels?

Dr. Jack Wolfson: Well, uh – yeah, I think that sunshine, physical activity –

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I got it.

Dr. Jack Wolfson: Yeah I mean the whole white cell that we talk about.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it.

Dr. Jack Wolfson: Then, you know one thing that’s super big right now is getting a lot of people to use a lot of spices.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-huh.

Dr. Jack Wolfson: Because even the best paleo eaters – you know, maybe they’re, they’re eating their grass-fed brown beef. And they’re eating their – you know, wild sea food. I mean they’re doing a lot of good things there that we – uh, you know as thousand paleo. But two things I think they’re missing – They’re missing number one, the organs. Uh –

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jack Wolfson: Liver, kidney, thyroid, thymus, adrenal that our ancestors ate as their first choice. They weren’t reaching for filet. Uh – and number is two is spices. And if you look at spices medical literature map, I’m uh – putting together a blog post on this. Spices are little natural pharmaceuticals and in fact in a pharmaceutical industry no doubt came from the spice in the plant industry.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.

Dr. Jack Wolfson: And a lot of these – a lot of these, uh – you know spices are proven to increase APOa1. They’re proven to, to increase reverse cholesterol transport. And uh – yeah, it’s really exciting and they of course do wonders some other cardiovascular factors including LDL’s and operating LDL receptors, on the liver. So, uh – yeah, add those early and often.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So we have the APOa1, you said. And the APOa2 is the, the kind of the negative marker. Is that correct?

Dr. Jack Wolfson: Yeah. I mean it’s uh – you know the APOa’s in certain most literatures right now is on the APOa1 and that’s clearly gonna – you know, demonstrate the best part functionality of that HDL particle.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Great. And the things that are gonna make the APOa2 or the negative APO’s uhmm go down the wrong direction are gonna be what – what trans fat, extra refined carbohydrates, insulin resistance, inflammatory foods, gluten. Those kind of things?

Dr. Jack Wolfson: Uh – you know, I think you’re right. All the bad stuff that we all talk about. Uh – clearly is associated with – you talked about it before, the – you know, omega-3. Uh – you know it kills me that so many people are following this vegan plan of – of you know, the China study.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Jack Wolfson: And the fire – firemen who wrote a book on- on nutrition and all.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jack Wolfson: With all due respect, to firemen.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jack Wolfson: In any case, uh – you know, I mean uh every study shows that fish eaters eat the longest the longest. And you’re – you’re, it’s so clear on the benefits of omega-3 when it comes to lipids, when it comes to inflammation, when comes to insulin resistance. You can’t get omega-3 from sucking down on walnut oil. You have to eat fish – plain and simple. You eat shellfish. Avoid the large fish coz unfortunately they are high in heavy metals. So, when we talk about fish, we talking about salmon, sardines.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jack Wolfson: anchiove and those smaller fish. And I’ve got no problem with seafood. I test people’s heavy metals. Uh, when you’re getting high quality of shellfish, I think you’re in good shape. Maybe I wouldn’t overdo it. Uh, but I’ve got no problem with shellfish – one or two times a month. I mean oysters, how more –––– is an oyster? Why can’t a vegan eat an oyster? Why does an oyster have many more feelings than that a cabbage does?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. Yeah, totally. And I’ve seen a lot of patients who are vegan. This is really hard for a lot of people to get their head wrapped around. I’ve seen a lot of patients who are vegan and they actually have elevated cholesterol. And when I educate my patients I tell them, “diet has very little effect on your cholesterol”. If you look at the enzyme that the statin blocks that hemo method glutaric CoA reductase enzyme, the HMG enzyme – one of the biggest things that stimulates that enzyme is insulin. So you have many vegetarians and vegans that are on a  carbohydrate diet. And the extra carbohydrates feed that insulin and that causes more internal production of cholesterol. So I see dietary cholesterol actually is very little impact. I eat about 60 to 70% fat. My cholesterol’s still under 200 and my trig’s are at a one-to-one ratio with HDL probably at 1660. Any comment on that?

Dr. Jack Wolfson: Well, you know, listen – LDL, HDL these are part of the immune system. And when you eat uh – bad foods, or you eat gluten containing foods that are damaging intestinal lining and leading to the leaky gut – well, leaky gut leads to inflammation.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jack Wolfson: And it needs system activation. When you activate the immune system, you’re stimulating the production of the repair crew, LDL and HDL. It’s not a surprise that they are elevated. But a lot of times vegan diet can dramatically lower lipids.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jack Wolfson: And in most cases, it’s – it’s too low because you know, two things – number one, you’re not giving the body the tools it needs to make cholesterol. Uh, that’s number one. Number two when you’re avoiding fat and you do not need to make the uh – cholesterol to put into the bile, bile acid, bile salts to digest fat. So – you know, once again it’s kinda two-fold. You don’t need to make the cholesterol because you’re not using it in the gut. And you don’t get the tools your body needs and you suffer the long-term effects.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I agree and I think it’s the vegans that are more insulin sensitive. Meaning they don’t over produce insulin. Their cells are numbed insulin. Those are the ones whose cholesterol really drops and I – I agree and I see that frequently. Now in my practice, you know – we find that upping the cholesterol, increase in the saturated fats as many studies meta -, analysis many studies their conglomerate together to look for correlation they find that there’s no correlation between saturated fat cholesterol and heart disease. I think the Framingham heart study echo that. What do you think?

Dr. Jack Wolfson: Well you know, yeah – it was definitely thought on Framingham and uh, in 2010 American Journal of Clinical Nutrition –

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Jack Wolfson: – the biggest nutrition journal. They looked at 350,000 patients and concluded that sat fat has nothing to do with cardiovascular disease. Uh – uh, I believe it was four years later in 2014 there was another analysis over 5000 patients. So, yeah -the data is very clear set that is not linked cardiovascular disease. Sat fat is great for cooking. Uh, and most importantly, our ancestors have been eating sat fat for, you know, a million of years. And animals eat sat fat. Uh, breast milk – the healthiest food in the planet for a newborn baby up until the age of 3-4 years of age. Uh, this – this breast milk is loaded of sat fat. So I think that pretty much ends that debate.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I totally agree. You kinda talked about the HDL and LDL. You mentioned it earlier. I just emphasize it for the listeners. People are out there always talking about good cholesterol, bad cholesterol. One of the things I echoed my patients is cholesterol, like LDL or HDL or good or bad, those are just the bosses. The LDL is basically the boss the takes cholesterol from the liver out to the – the peripheral tissues to help repair and fix whatever’s going on. Cholesterol is a powerful antioxidant and the HDL is the bus back home it’s the bus back home from the peripheral tissue back to the liver to recycle that cholesterol. Can you echo or comment a little bit more on that topic?

Dr. Jack Wolfson: Yeah. You know, I agree with everything you said a 100%. The LDL vilified by the pharmaceutical industry and therefore, in they push on the medical doctors and medical doctors told that same jargon. Why would the body make LDL if it didn’t have some role and some benefit? Uh – you know LDL’s the bad cholesterol in our body makes it. Does our body’s like uh, you know program to kill us and cause heart attacks? Why the animals make LDL particles? Why the animals make HDL particles? There’s a reason for all of it. Just as you said, we measure the good and the bad amongst the uh, the LDLs – there is good and bad LDL. There’s good and bad HDLs. And we measure those levels and uh, make recommendations based on that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s great. And what kind of particle size test are you doing? I was doing the VAP by Azoteq but they close down recently. So I’ve been looking at the NMR as well as the cardio IQ. And for the listeners, the particle size has to do with basically how big or small the LDL or the HDL are. And I tell my patients big and fluffy particle size A – you want the A on the test. You want the larger, fluffy particle size A. And you wanna avoid the B for bad – the small atherosclerotic dense LDL particles. Can you comment on that a little bit more? And what lab tests are you using for your particle size testing?

Dr. Jack Wolfson: Well I think – Yeah, as you said it, there’s a lot of different companies that are out there. I personally use vibrant by America.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay.

Dr. Jack Wolfson: For my uh – for my lab testing and they’re doing amazing leaky gut panel. So really excited about that company. And uh – they uh, you know, started up a few years ago getting really, really high quality results from them. I’ve been using true health diagnostics like what you say, Cleveland, Heartland, Boston. There’s a lot of different companies uh, that are doing advanced lipid analysis. I think the important thing is to get the – the testing done and get that information.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it. So you’re looking for more of the – more of the A’s less of the B’s, generally speaking?

Dr. Jack Wolfson: Well, I mean like I said the, uh – the, in norm risk factor that we know is that APLB to APLA ratio. And you get the ration down below 0.6, uh – your urine are pretty darn good place regarding your lipids.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Can you go more into that ratio one more time? I just wanna make sure I get that.

Dr. Jack Wolfson: Yeah. Sure, thanks. So, APLB would obviously be a measure of LDL, VLDL, IDLs. All of the, lipid, you know – factors. Uh, so it gives you much more information than just LDL particles. And in ourselves, it’s kinda all those non-HDL’s. And then APLA would be a measure of HDL and really the HDL functionality, so uh – that’s what we’re using and uh – yeah, then I think obviously everything that where we work so many case studies where we’re making big differences.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it. APLA’s, the HDL’s, the APLB’s everything else essentially. 

Dr. Jack Wolfson: Yes

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay. Great. So, looking at you being a cardiologist, maybe you get people with hypercholesterolemia coming in. When do you prescribe a statin? Is there a time where you – are you able to avoid prescribing it most of the time? How does that look?

Dr. Jack Wolfson: Uh, yeah. You know, the uhm – uh, you know to be candid about my practice, I mean unlike people that are on statins in my practice to the people that, that insist on it. So uh, you know, and some and those typically gonna be the people that have had a cardiovascular event already, that had a heart attack, that had bypass surgery, or somebody familial hyperlipidemia. And so many people of course come in and say, “Oh, I’ve got a family history.” Well, uh – you know, 50% of the population in the United States has cardiovascular disease. We all have bad family histories. Uh, so we can’t blame it in the family but there is a small, small subset of people that you have total cholesterols above 300 and LDL particles that are sky high that no matter what you do – once their APLB’s are high, their LDL particles are high, their LDL’s are high. Everything’s high in them. And those people requires significant intervention. I try everything – nutrition, I try supplements. Uh, I wouldn’t go through a whole litany of supplements that I think are beneficial. Sometimes at the end of the day, we reach for a low-dose statin. Uh, uhm – but once again I – uh, it’s not very frequent even in my practice.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it. And with statins is there one that you’re finding has less side effects? Are you doing like a Zocor or Zetia-Lipitor. What works the best? What’s like the typical low-dose you like?

Dr. Jack Wolfson: Yeah, typically I will reach for something like Rosuvastatin, which is a – the brand name is Crestor. I can get away with pretty low-dose on that. I think we can dose it to three times a week and getting success. But even amongst those genetic hyperlipidemia patients, the statins don’t have that much effect against them, either. So the new kid on the block is the PCS canine inhibitors that uh, uh – you know Repatha injectable. Uh, uh – things that help to increase the LDL receptors on the liver to clear LDL particles out of circulation. So I have not prescribed that yet. I have a few patients that are on that from another cardiologist. But I’ve not written that script yet. Uh, this is where I think – you know more on the spices actually help –

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jack Wolfson: – increase LDL receptors on the liver and then my favorite supplement when it comes to – uh, lipids and blood sugar and so many other things is Faverin, PER, PCR, IME. The literature on that is – it’s extensive and prolific. And so many different things that’s really exciting product. That one on the way is it works. Uh increases MPK enzyme, therefore progrades degradation of the LDL receptors. In the liver, work similar to the PCS Canines, not as – as dramatic effect. But without the side effects with other benefits and uh, it’s natural.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it. So I think I’ve seen one of your cardiovascular supports, right. You put uh, the berberines in there as well?

Dr. Jack Wolfson: Yeah. Uh, right now we use a straight protocol BERBE – uh, B-E-R-B-E and you know – uh, anticancer. It lowers blood sugar, excellent for lipids, improves BPH symptoms. Uh, uh the polycystic ovarian –

Justin tin Marchagiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jack Wolfson: You know – syndrome. It’s like there’s a role in that for everything. So it’s a pretty exciting product.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It also helps with SIBO, too – small intestinal bacterial overgrowth.

Dr. Jack Wolfson: Uh, I mean – and that’s where all the literature kinda started off as far as what it did for us in antibacterial, uh and to improve bowel health. In fact I found a study recently that came out about how Berberine improves leaky gut. Uh how it’s uh – intestinal permeability is decreased when you put people in Berberine. So it’s uh – it’s really a, uh kinda a Swiss Army knife of supplements.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally agree. Now, I wanna pivot one second. I heard you mentioned leaky gut and know you mentioned a test that you run earlier – test for leaky gut. How are they assessing leaky gut? Is it based off of zonulin or occludin? What’s the, what are the markers?

Dr. Jack Wolfson: Yes. So in particular the uh, Vibrant America does the test called Wheat Zoomer. And the Wheat Zoomer looks for leaky gut. It looks at zonulin. It looks at antizonulin or antibodies again zonulin, antibodies against actin. Uh, and antibodies against lipopolysaccharides as active components of bacteria that you know, some of them get into the body but it shouldn’t be a lot. So they’re not looking at occludin. Uhm – uh I think Cyrex lab looks at occludin.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jack Wolfson: Uh – and uh, it’s, it’s kinda like you know, Mercedes-Benz or you know, BMW. They’re both high end products. I happen to like the panel from Vibrant. The quality of the company that I know Vibrant is – I have nothing against Cyrex. I mean they’re both – both good options but you, you know, Dr. Justin, this is really kind what you consider kinda be the holy Grail of how things happen, right. And now – you know, we can really put it all together where you have the intestinal damage known as leaky gut. Bad things get in the immune system.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jack Wolfson: Inflammation, oxidative stress and you know the immune system comes in and just consent with the machine-gun. And that machine-gun damage kills off bad bacteria and other particles but it also damages the rest the body. So, you know, the conventional cardiologist – this doesn’t get it. The conventional cardiologist thinks that coronary disease is, is a lack of statin drugs. Coronary disease is a cholesterol issue. Uh and they’re just totally missing the boat.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And we know so much of the cholesterol can be responding to inflammation. The cholesterol is kinda this natural band-aid. So if we have a lot of inflammation in the gut that could affect cholesterol level systemically.

Dr. Jack Wolfson: Oh, most uh – most certainly. Cholesterol’s part of speckle on the wall. You know, there’s damage on the wall and uh – you know, you thought a speckle. Cholesterol is part of that speckle. Speckle did not cause the damage.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Jack Wolfson: It’s coming, you know, the process.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes, love that. Typically in my clinic, one of the tests, a couple the test we’ll look at – we’ll do all the panels that you just mentioned on the cholesterol. One of the things I have to start working on, uh the APO, uh the APO1-2. I gotta start looking at that more. But we’ll also look at the inflammatory markers. We’ll look at uhm highly sensitive CRP, we’ll look at homocysteine, we’ll look at fibrinogen. What you think about those markers for inflammation or there any other markers that you also like to look at, too?

Dr. Jack Wolfson: Well I think you mentioned a – uh, yeah certainly HSCRP. The most data is on HSCRP.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jack Wolfson: And there – there’s phospholipase 2.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-huh.

Dr. Jack Wolfson: Which is PLA2. Uhm, real quick – If there’s, that’s thinking to get a CT, coronary in CT or coronary in calcification scan, I’m totally against it. I don’t know what your opinion is, Doctor Justin. But uh, I’m anti-radiation. You know causes heart disease, radiation causes cancer. Let’s just assume most people have coronary calcification because they do. So therefore let’s just use these lab tests. Let’s use maybe CIMT, endopath markers of vascular reactivity to – to define health. Uhm – but uh, and the other inflammatory marker is – is the oxidized LDL.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Jack Wolfson: That’s the – the pinnacle of the testosteroid. There are, you know you’re measuring damage to LDL particles that are eventually targeted for uh – uptake by the immune system. And those oxidized LDL will go right into the vessel wall. They’re taken up by the system. The monocytes would become macrophages. And then –

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jack Wolfson: Foam cells –

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Foam cells, yeah.

Dr. Jack Wolfson: The foam cells rupture and people die. So that’s where that goes.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And what’s that test, the oxidized, you just call it oxides LDL test?

Dr. Jack Wolfson: That’s an OX LDL.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s it. Wonderful. Very good. I don’t really have an opinion on the, uhm calcification test. Glad that you brought that up. I know Dr. Davis – I think he’s a cardiologist. Well I think he’s – he has spoken highly of it in the past but you’re not liking it more just from the radiation exposure side of it?

Dr. Jack Wolfson: Right Yeah. Yeah, I feel Davis – uhm, uh you know up, up in Minnesota.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jack Wolfson: He became the uh, famous cardiologist because of a test he did called, track your plaque.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Jack Wolfson: And that was his – he keep on doing CT scans. The more you keep doing CT scans, the more you’re gonna create coronary artery disease.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.

Dr. Jack Wolfson: Radi – radiation causes cancer. Radiation cause heart disease. We know from young guys who had non-Hodgkin – uh, I’m sorry, the Hodgkin lymphoma. They had uh – uh, radiation to their chest. They all had severe coronary disease. They all have rate valvular damage from it. Uh – So it’s just a test we don’t, we don’t need it. Uh- frankly I think that’s a big reason why insurance doesn’t cover it either. Uh- because it’s just not useful beneficial test. If you know, you’re a 50 year old male, let’s just assume you’ve got coronary disease, now let’s do something about it. So, uh –you know once again, I’m totally anti-CT scan. Uh, you know radiation is factor that killed my father. Working as a cardiologist for all those years.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Jack Wolfson: So, uh- yeah. Let’s – let’s avoid it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. So I’m gonna go through a quick rapid fire questions. HSCRP – you like that below 1, below .5? What’s your range in that?

Dr. Jack Wolfson: I, uhm- I think the lower the better on an HSCRP, no doubt about it. I mean, HSCRP not only is it a marker, but it is a stimulator for- for dysfunction in the body. When you infuse lab rat –

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jack Wolfson: – with uh, high sensitivity CRP, they all came down with hypertension and this filial dysfunction. And eventually coronary disease, so it’s not just a marker. It’s actually uh- a, a negative once it’s floating around. So you gotta get that lowered.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. And how about homocysteine, do you like that below 8?

Dr. Jack Wolfson: Certainly. Uh, homocysteine – uh, I think 8 is uh, a nice position. Uh- you know, somewhere between uh, between 6 and 8.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jack Wolfson: I think is good. We certainly don’t want it too low because homocysteine has a purpose. Uh, we gotta lower that number down and you know, –––– above the B vitamins.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Jack Wolfson: But another, uh- secret trick to lower that down for another part of the methylation pathways betaine. Uh and betaine, you get your digestive enzyme.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jack Wolfson: If you take Betaine HCL product that tremendously works as well. Sometimes the B vitamins just, uh- you know just don’t get it done. Uh and of course you know, people have genetic snips and whatnot. But, you know, the betaine really helps to uh, lower that down. But you know, more importantly of course is uh- it’s for digestion. And everybody has not enough stomach gas as it is opposed to too much.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. And the betaine is the trimethlyglycine, right? Same thing?

Dr. Jack Wolfson: Uh, well –what, uh when uh – trimethlyglycine, uh- is a fantastic methylator. Uh for this – from the betaine, you know-uh in a molecule, uh- in of itself but there in the betaine does contain, you know three methyl groups on there. So there is in similarity uh, but uh- it works, it works really well.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Loving the brain candy. Awesome. And I know the whole story behind – maybe our listeners don’t- but the whole, Kilmer McCully story of homocysteine. Basically he was laughed at Harvard. He’s trying to talk about the connection with homocysteine and heart disease. Basically figured out certain B vitamins, in particularly B6, P5P or folate or B12. Ideally, a methylated B-12 help lower that homocysteine. Do you find that taking those types of nutrients – those methylated B vitamins that I just mentioned, is that actually lower homocysteine? And does actually correlate or should I say, is that a direct causation because of that lower homocysteine to less heart disease?

Dr. Jack Wolfson: Why – the thing, uh- you know, the literature unfortunately has not been kind to the B vitamins to lower uh, uh- you know to make to a difference in cardiac endpoints.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jack Wolfson: So heart attack, stroke, ––––– So it clearly lowers the number down on- on homocysteine. And uh- I can like postulate that- number one, they’re using inferior supplements. Number two, it’s not the whole program. You have to put it in context of- you know, eating the right foods, living the right lifestyle. Taking McDonald’s eater and trying to lower the homocysteine vitamins, you’re probably not gonna make a big difference. I think it’s all part of the big picture uh, in our holistic practices.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And they’re probably working from the inequated theory like, “let’s fortify some milk, orange juice, maybe some toast with some synthetic crappy B vitamins.” Obviously, that’s not gonna fix the underlying issue.

Dr. Jack Wolfson: Uh- I would agree.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay. So you think, looking at – if we just give the healthy B vitamins that we just talked about, at a higher level but we make the diet changes – you’re saying in your clinical practice, a reduced risk and a reduced outcome of heart disease?

Dr. Jack Wolfson: Uh- I mean, I think so. You know, I don’t have a big- uh, study to point to we’re doing. But I certainly think that you know, once again the edge here: improving the lipids, you’re improving the homocyesteine, you’re improving your omega 3’s, you’re improving the thyroid and blood sugar and all the things that we’re dealing. Uh- yeah, I think uh- it’s making a huge difference.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s great. And you mention the only people you’re really prescribing statins for. I wanna just make sure I heard you right. People that are already on a pre-existing statin that are coming to see you to manage that. Or you said number two, is people that were hypercholesterolemia. Is that correct?

Dr. Jack Wolfson: Uh, yes. Yeah. Uh, uh – that’s uh, uh correct. I’m not using it too often. Frankly, I use the Berberine, I use the Bergamot, I use Re–––

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Jack Wolfson: I use binders in the gut. So –

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Jack Wolfson: You know, uh – organic India. And you know, just really trying’ to- you know increase that fibrin in the diet. And uhm, uh- those are my therapies. But once again, once you address the basics. I mean, just get sunshine. Sunshine converts excess cholesterol back in the vitamin D.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.

Dr. Jack Wolfson: And that’s- that’s free, you know. You know the big guys like you and I- a lot of money to do that. I mean, let’s just repair itself.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I know, that’s great. Coz I have a couple patients that have the hypercholesterolemia and are you typically diag-diagnosing that off of like PCS canine, the LDR receptor, the FH markers. Is that what you’re looking for that diagnosis?

Dr. Jack Wolfson: Well, I think there’s a lot of different uh- you know, genetics. You know, and I think you label the big ones there as far as why people have hyperlipidemia. Uh- but you know, once again if the uh- total cholesterol uh- that’s in the 35400 range, the LDL particles above 3500. I think that’s a pretty good sign the they’ve got- you know familial hyperlipidemia. You know, but sometimes you see people that are just- just this metabolic syndrome. They’re overweight, hypertensive, they have LDL particle number 2800. Those are not the familial people. Those are the people that- you know just have all the, you know-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jack Wolfson: -all the bad habits that lead to the lipids.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And I gotta- these patients are actually expecting this interview so I told them I might ask some of these questions for them. But uhm, we talked about some of the natural things we could do. Would you be comfortable- would you want someone to be on the statin even if they’re trying not to be honest at with those conditions, if they’re doing the Berberine, if they’re doing the CoQ10, if they’re doing some, some of the red rice yeast and all the things you mentioned? Or would you still want them to be on a low-dose statin, as well as everything else?

Dr. Jack Wolfson: No. For the most part, I don’t want them on statins.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jack Wolfson: I think about myself personally and I wouldn’t want to take a statin in any under circumstance. So I don’t push them on that at all. It’s really kinda patient-driven. Uh- you know, if they, if they say they wanna be on the biggest what they read or whatever then they can-they can stay on it. I’m not gonna totally dissuade them from it. And listen- you know, Dr. Justin, all we can do is give people the facts and say, “hey, listen-when you take a statin drug, your risk of having a cardiovascular event. is reduced from 7% ,for example, you know, down to 5.5%. And if you want that 1.5% benefit, go ahead. But I think in my plan and your plan, we’re gonna get down to close to 0%.” And when you explain that to people, they get it. It’s not just about moving numbers, it’s not about moving numbers at all. It’s about lowering risk of heart attack, stroke and dying. And in any statin study, under any circumstances, the benefit is small.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And what is the research say coz you talked about the 1.5% benefit.

What does the research say, though on increasing chance of Alzheimer’s, diabetes and uh, cancer- being on a statin?

Dr. Jack Wolfson: Uh- well, listen now they see increase in diabetes risk. There’s no doubt about that . Uh- you know, cancer risk is kind of equivocal. Uh- and listen, there’s lot of studies telling the benefits of statins and I think you have to look at a lot of those uh- you know with an inquisitive eye and saying who’s paying for the studies, who is doing the studies, what’s the motivation behind it? But you know, all these diseases, whether its heart disease, cancer, dementia, this is not from a-a you know, deficiency of statin drugs. There’s a reason for it. And the natural doctor finds that reason.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And I’ve also heard, too that the uh, the NT or the number needed to treat for a statin is what, 99. So that means 99 people have to take that drug for one person to be helped by it. Are you familiar with that?

Dr. Jack Wolfson: Well, you know- you know, most certainly so. And I love number needed to treat.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Jack Wolfson: And that’s what anybody should ask their doctor regarding heart disease or stroke prevention and certainly cancer prevention, chemotherapy. You know, if I get this chemotherapy, uh- what’s number needed to treat-You know, how many people need to take chemo for one person to benefit? And what is that, is that a three-month benefit? Is it a five-year benefit?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Jack Wolfson: Give me-give me numbers. Give me numbers that’s what we encourage- you know, for that. But listen, your statins come in different category. For primary prevention, for example on women, the statin data- uh, you know, number needed to treat, uh as far as uh heart attack reductions- yeah, it’s around a 100-15. Uh- uh, you know for women primary prevention statins do not increase mortality at all. for man, it gets a little bit better. Studies are mixed. Uh- secondary prevention is where statins “shine”. And in that scenario you can uh- uh, make number needed to treat regarding heart attacks. Uh you know, is about 1 in 30 to 40 mortality data maybe 1 to 70 to 80. But then again- hey listen, the pharmaceutical companies are doing the studies. Uh, there is a better way. Uh- you know, in any of these scenarios, you know in 39 out of 40 people don’t get benefit after taking the drug every single day for five years.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s crazy.

Dr. Jack Wolfson: I think, uh- they can come up with uh- a, with a better plan. Uhm, uh- you know, by the way, real quick- you know, we’ve talked about like B10 to lower uh- uh, homocysteine. I just wanna correct myself uh- you know really quickly. I think about it uh- you know, TMG. TMG, you very astute and correct. It’s another way to do it. I just happen to like using betaine HCl because it’s kind of a 2-in1 thing.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.

Dr. Jack Wolfson: So with the homocysteine, while we’re really cranking up digestion.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup. I totally agree. Most patients I find as you know, when they’re stressed, they uhm. have lower levels of stomach acid. And if we have stomach acid, it’s a two for one, you get better digestion and you get the reduction in some of the homocysteine. I agree.

Dr. Jack Wolfson: Love it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And when you said secondary just a second ago, you meant secondary benefits like the persons already had a heart attack. Now they’re coming in to get treated by- with a statin that that has a little bit more benefit than preventative.

Dr. Jack Wolfson: Correct, correct. Some of the- uh, really- it’s gonna shine on people that had a heart attack. Uh- there will be some better data on- on you know, people that had bypass surgery or angioplasty. For it’s really in those post-heart attack people where there is the evidence of successful. Once again, it’s not about lowering the risk from 7 to 5 1/2 . It’s about lowering the from 7 to 0.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly.

Dr. Jack Wolfson: And medical doctors cannot offer that. And Dr. Justin, you and I can.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Jack Wolfson: -which is totally cool.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes. Exactly. And in your practice, are you putting those secondary people on statins or you still doing all the natural stuff that you already doing all the natural stuff that you reiterated earlier?

Dr. Jack Wolfson: Yeah. I mean, listen- if you wanna go on statins, go see somebody else.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jack Wolfson: You don’t have to pay me as a private- you know, private physician. Go see your bill pushy doctor and they’ll be happy to give it to you along with their three-minute office visit

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, right. And I know the statins, too, they block the HMG CoA reductase pathway and if we look at the metabolites from that, you have the metabolic acid that comes after it which is the precursor to CoQ10. So does that mean when you’re- when you’re managing patients that are already on statins, like you mentioned, are you making sure you give extra CoQ10 as well?

Dr. Jack Wolfson: Yes. For them and uh- you know, I measure CoQ10 levels and we see where people are at. And typically doesn’t take much to where we need to be. But you’re right. I mean, the downstream ramifications of, of uh the HMG CoA reductase inhibitors and blocking that enzyme are just catastrophic. What it does do a DNA and RNA replication. As you mentioned, CoQ10, uh- the squalene which has roles in our body.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Jack Wolfson: And uh, uh dolichol.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Ughh.

Dr. Jack Wolfson: Dolichol is another cholesterol derivative. And dolichol, interestingly enough, is found in the substantia nigra in the uh

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Midbrain.

Dr. Jack Wolfson: -midbrain and the neuromelanin cells.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Jack Wolfson: And wouldn’t you know that’s uhm- that Parkinson’s, my father died of a Parkinson’s-like illness called progressive super nuclear policy. And my father is a cardiologist . He took Lipitor.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Ughh.

Dr. Jack Wolfson: So this is very, very important to me. And yeah, when you see that- you know, dolichol’s in that area, now you’re not gonna make dolichol because the drug- uh, we have a total linear connection on how it works. And it’s uh- it’s scary and sad and we need to stop it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Dropping some truth bombs here. I love it. Very, very cool. Now, also one more question to you before we wrap up. Looking at CoQ10 we just talked about- Do you like the reduced or the oxidized form? The the ubiquinone or the ubiquinol? What does the research say?

Dr. Jack Wolfson: I personally use Ubiquinol. There’s good data, of course. I mean I use the Ubiquinol. But frankly, all the original data regarding CoQ10 was on ubiquinol.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, yeah.

Dr. Jack Wolfson: So, so I think both serve a purpose. I think if you test levels, you can do that. But I think pretty much most people are going towards Ubiquinol version. Uhm, but you know, once- I think you do one that you’re taking. I think it’s fine,uh- and go from there.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And the Ubiquinol that’s the reduced version, right. That has the extra electron to it?

Dr. Jack Wolfson: Correct.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay.

Dr. Jack Wolfson: Correct and you know, it’s more of the deactivated form, but the body shifts pretty easily. You know, to and from, both of those and uh- uh, you know I think when you’re healthy, you’re gonna covert one to the other fairly easily.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it. Well, is there any other really important info that you wanted to talk about, but you haven’t get the chance to bring it to the surface?

Dr. Jack Wolfson: Uh, well I think you know- once again, our paleo ancestors ate- uh, you know ate- our pale ancestors ate paleo food, that’s number one. Number two, our paleo ancestors went to sleep with the sundown and woke with the sunrise.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Jack Wolfson: Let’s not forget about. Our pale ancestors were not in the artificial light, our paleo ancestors were in the sun all day long and they were naked. So, these things are free. Appropriate sleep is free, appropriate sunshine is free. Uhm-uh, you know the food is- is easily affordable. Get rid of the Starbucks and all the garbage. Uh, so – I think that’s about it, man.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think that’s great. And last question for you. If you are on a desert island and you only could bring one supplement with you? One herb, one supplement, one nutrient, what would it be?

Dr. Jack Wolfson: Uhm- uh I would say, it’s gotta be probiotics.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay. Probiotics. I love it. Very good. And I just want to give you props, Dr. Wilson. You are a clinician as well as a researcher. You’re in the trenches. There are a lot of people that are out there that are postulating in and you know, coming up with their theories on what’s best based on the research but you’re in the trenches doing it yourself. So I really appreciate that.

Dr. Jack Wolfson: Uh, you got it, Dr. Justin. It’s an absolute pleasure to talk to you. I’ll be happy to do it again anytime.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. And again, that’s doctors- thedoctorswilson with a D-R We’ll put the link below in case you guys miss it. So you can click to get access and also check out Dr. Wilson’s book the, The Paleo Cardiologist and he also has been getting a chance to do what you want for part two over at vaccinesreveal.com for Dr. Wolfson’s uh- awesome info on vaccinations.

Dr. Jack Wolfson: Sounds, uh- sounds fantastic. I appreciate it and uh- yeah, here’s to health.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Thanks a lot, Doc. I appreciate it. Bye.


References:

www.thedrswolfson.com

www.vaccinesreveal.com


The entire contents of this website are based upon the opinions of Dr. Justin Marchegiani unless otherwise noted. Individual articles are based upon the opinions of the respective author, who retains copyright as marked. The information on this website is not intended to replace a one-on-one relationship with a qualified health care professional and is not intended as medical advice. It is intended as a sharing of knowledge and information from the research and experience of Dr. Justin and his community. Dr. Justin encourages you to make your own health care decisions based upon your research and in partnership with a qualified healthcare professional. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. Dr. Marchegiani’s products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. If you are pregnant, nursing, taking medication, or have a medical condition, consult your physician before using any products.