Conventional GI Workup vs Functional Gut Health Program | Podcast #297

If you’ve ever wondered how functional medicine differs from everyday conventional medicine, this is the podcast for you. Dr. J sets out to explore conventional medicine GI workup vs. functional medicine gut-health workup. It’s a compare and contrast while looking at what chronic conditions may be missed by conventional medicine. Check out for more info.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

In this episode, they cover:

 

0:29     Gut Issues, H. Pylori

7:49     How Are These Detected?

18:04   Tests

24:16   Compare and Contrast of Treatments

32:10   Saliva Secretions

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Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey guys, it’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani here really excited today we’re going to be having a phenomenal podcast on the topic of conventional medicine, gi workup versus a functional medicine gi workup. We want to just kind of give you guys a little compare and contrast and talk about where others shine and where others may be better, especially for most people who have chronic health challenges that may be missed by your conventional medical workup. Before we dive in, Evan, how are we doing today, man?

Evan Brand: Doing really well, this podcast started with a story. quick story. The best man in my wedding. He called me last night and Hey, how you doing? Everything’s good. Okay, awesome. And then hey, I need some help with my wife. She’s been having a lot of gut issues for the past several months. She went into conventional doctor then went to a I’m assuming she went to some type of a specialist. Gi probably I told them about her issues which were bloating, major abdominal cramping, cramping, and pain, floating stools, possibly some changes with mood, but I don’t know if that was brought up to the doctor. So just conventional gi stuff and some pain that was radiating to the back. So pain in the front that was in radiating to the back. And her protocol was no testing. I don’t even think they did palpation they didn’t do physical exam. I think it they just listened. And then they said, okay, buy this probiotic. This probiotic was something that you and I looked up. It was one strain of bacteria in the bifido family, and it was loaded with fillers. And it was what’s considered a consumer grade product, meaning you don’t have to be a practitioner to get it. And it was just loaded with garbage fillers and sugar and other stuff. It had sucrose like why do you have sucrose so that was it. So that was it. And so then When you and I called this morning, I just said, Look, we’ve got to cover this because she got nowhere. And she spent all this time sitting in a doctor’s office waiting. And now she’s no better off. So I talked with her for a little bit. And we made a protocol for her that I think is going to be far, far better.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s great. Yeah. So really excellent. And when we see patients on the functional medicine side, most have already gone through a pretty thorough, conventional workup. So, you know, my perspective on a lot of this, not that I’m a trained gastroenterologist, not we’re functional medicine practitioners. But I see lots of patients who have already been through the gamut. And so I really try to understand what’s already been looked at what’s been tested, and you see a pattern, you know, when you see a couple hundred patients kind of go through these intense workups you see a pattern of what’s already been done, and you can kind of see what’s been missed, or kind of what their perspective is. So, most conventional gi doctors, you know that these are ones that are not functional medicine and nutritionally change right 90% are going to be in the conventional Category right there just following the typical internal medicine gastroenterologist, kind of best practices workup. So most are coming in they’re doing a history, they may do a physical exam some kind of a palpation to see where inflammation may be in the intestinal tract right certain areas may lead them to think certain things right, upper left quadrant, right my left that could be stomach kind of things maybe pancreas things, upper right. Could be more on the gallbladder liver area, you know, bottom, like mid left could be more spleen, bottom right mid right could be more intestines, and then lower right lower left could be either appendix on the right could be colon ascending on the right, descending on the left sigmoid colon on the left so that you kind of get a decent area. If you just know the general anatomy of what the inflammation could be Now, the next step is going to be depending upon you know, how invasive that things need to go right. They may recommend a capsule or endoscopy just to get a window. What kind of inflammation is in the intestine and then almost always though, they may need to go deeper into an actual endoscopy which is scoped down the mouth. Alright, colonoscopy is going to be scoped up the rectum to look in the colon area right you have your sigmoidoscopy, which is the last part of the colon before, stool goes into the toilet. And then you have all the way up the different intestinal tracts in the colon, right you have your descending your transverse or ascending and then on the upper side, you have your tummy. You have your tummy on the endoscopy, and then you have the first part of that small intestine. So obviously on the colon they may be looking for if you’re older, maybe polyps, which could be precancerous, they may be looking at inflamed tissue. It could be inflamed tissue from a ulcerative colitis when maybe there’s bleeding. It could be inflamed tissue from Crohn’s disease, which may manifest a little bit differently higher up usually, and usually there’s some level of skip lesions we’re all sort of colitis may not have that on the upper side. There could be ulcers in the stomach, right? Those are all possible things. And then there may be other tests to look at the levels of blood there may be things done like a fecal occult blood, where they’re testing microscopic levels of blood in the stool, maybe looking at calprotectin, which are inflammation markers in the intestines, maybe doing a barium swallow to look for any fistulas or blockages or even bleeding. On a barium swallow those are all like conventional things, they may pull out a ultrasound to look deeper at pancreas or gallbladder or liver, if some of that area comes back and flame or to even monitor monitor some of the krones type of inflammation. Some of the more progressive gastroenterologist are starting to do more of the breath testing, the lactulose breath testing, which may look at hydrogen and methane gases. Some may even do a glucose type of breath testing, it looks at more of the bacterial imbalances in the stomach. These are all other more progressive, forward thinking kinds of functional medicine, functional GIS, maybe doing that. Not a lot do that though. Then after that you have your conventional blood tests which could look for inflammation or immune cells or calprotectin. Or actually no calprotectin has to be in the stool but you could look at C reactive protein, you could look at immune markers, right. You could also look at the blood, you could just look at red blood cells, hemoglobin, hematocrit, iron, because if you’re losing blood, you may see it on a panel like that as well. And then some may also do stool testing. Now they may do more of your conventional stool testing that is less accurate, less specific, maybe not the more cutting edge DNA testing that’s looking for microbes that are more sensitive level parasites, H. pylori virulence factors Candida sibo bacterial overgrowth, right elastase deatta krijgt elastase is an enzyme markers, the adequate amount of digested fat marker. So these are things that they they’re typically not going to look at that we’re going to really dive in deeper because we’re doing a real functional assessment for what’s happening in the gut conventional medicines more looking at a pathological assessment, where we’re looking at PE, here’s optimal digestion what’s functionally not working compared to optimal, because there’s a big spread between, you know, being functionally optimum, and being disease and pathological is a big spread. So the problem is a lot of people are in between, this is where a diagnosis happens. This is where optimal is maybe somewhere in between that area and they’re just not going to get picked up. They’re not going to get assessed or found. And that’s where most 90% are going to be in no man’s land. In regards to their assessment or diagnosis, now we can go into treatment next, but I’m going to just pause there and give you a chance to comment.

Evan Brand: Sure, yeah. Good. Good overview and H. pylori breath testing is sometimes done. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I forgot H. Pylori. I’m sorry. Yes. H. Pylori as well.

Evan Brand: Yeah. So that’s something where, you know, if we, typically what Justin and I are doing when we work with someone is we’re going to have them send us any labs that they’ve done. Maybe the last six months, maybe a year. If We think it’s still relevant. And we’ll take a look at it. So each problem our breath testing will see those. But the truth is that there can in with all these conventional, less accurate tests, there can be an issue with false negatives. So that’s even more frustrating for the client or the patient because they come to us. They’ve got five or six things they’ve done with the GI people, and they still don’t have any answers. And of course, they don’t have any action plan or protocol. So for me, before I figured out that I had h pylori and parasite issues I did the barium swallow, you drink barium, which is terrible. It’s like drinking chalk. And then you go and you get an X ray. I was having a ton of gi burning upper gi burning so that’s where they did the you swallow it and then you basically lay back they then X ray you and try to see what was going on. And, of course, I wish I didn’t have that done because it wasn’t functional. And it gave me no answers. And all they said was Yeah, you may have some inflammation, they just call it idiopathic gastritis and then they send you on your way. No, yeah, meaning Idiot gastritis we don’t have a clue. And then they gave me the recommended acid blocker and the anti spasmodic and sent me on my way. And I said, I’m not taking them, don’t even give me the prescription pad, I’m not going to take it. And then Luckily, I was able to do functional testing, which then confirm the bugs that I had. So, so I’ve been there, I’ve been there, done that, and you made a great point, I just want to kind of restate it in a different way just to make people make sure people are clear with it, which is this this huge, wide, like you call it a spectrum, the spectrum of all the way over on one side is death disease, celiac krones, just like some sort of like you said, a pathological diagnosis. And then on the other end is like optimal gut health. And you could be so far down this hole, very, very close to pathological level of tissue destruction in the gut, but still not enough to technically be celiac or be krones or be this or that. So until you get to that level, to the conventional world, you’re fine. You just got to keep that Go and keep going, keep going until you get to the level of tissue destruction where you could say you are celiac or Crohn’s or pain, colitis or whatever. Now we can prescribe you this drug. And that’s it. And I’ve actually had doctors tell some of my clients during their workups Hey, sorry, you’re not there yet. You’re not bad enough yet. You’re not sick enough yet. We can’t do anything until you get to this point, like with thyroid, you know, your thyroid is not destroyed enough where we’re gonna put you on this drug or we’re going to cut your thyroid out. So just keep living as if you’re living now, once you’re bad enough, then call us back and we’ll cut your thyroid out or we’ll cut out your colon. If it’s diverticulitis. We’re going to wait until you’re in really bad shape. We’ll go ahead and do surgery. Let’s cut a foot of your intestines out. Yay. No, that’s not the answer.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. And then just to kind of echo on it because we see a lot of H. pylori, and conventional medicine may do a endoscopy for that where they’re taking a sample in the upper intestinal tract view the scope, they may do a stool And that may or may not pick it up. And then they’ll typically do the breath testing and like there’s different kinds of breath testing, as I already alluded, right you have your lactulose, which is going to be more your cebo breath tests, it’ll look at hydrogen and methane. You have your glucose, which may look at upper intestinal, upper gut, stomach type of bacterial overgrowth, right lactose takes about two hours to work through the full stomach, the small intestine, so anything after two hours is usually a pretty good window into the colon, because that’s where lactose starts to get absorbed by the bigger, bigger bacteria in the colon. But glucose tends to get absorbed a lot faster in that first, you know, 20 to 40 minutes so it gives you a better window of the stomach. And then you have your h pylori breath test where they’re giving you like it’s a urea breath test, they’re giving you like a urea tablet or a urea solution. And basically, the H pylori in your stomach will take their urea, right because typically how h pylori works, that makes an enzyme called urease. And that method analyzes the urea and the protein into ammonia and co2. So when you give that urea, the H pylori will convert a lot of it into co2 and ammonia. Ammonia has a pH of 11. So it’s very alkaline so that throws off your stomach digestion and lowers your stomach acid, but it also spits off a lot more co2 than in their mess. They’re they’re measuring high amounts of co2 to get a window if you’re positive for H. pylori on that conventional H. pylori breath test. So they’re looking at three things. Typically, they’re looking at breath, maybe a stool antigen, which is the stool under a microscope, they’re looking at maybe an endoscopy, if it’s more serious to rule out gastritis or ulcers, and then maybe a blood test with a look at like an IGG, IGM, or IGA. And it G’s more of a long term marker, so you really want to request an IGM IGA to see if it’s more active and acute. So those are the big things that they’re going to be looking at on the H. pylori side and I just say that because h pylori is a big thing. We find a lot and can be a problem in a large percent of the population after 30 to 50%. And then I would say things like Candida or a fungal overgrowth are very rarely looked at or assessed and will typically look for that in the stool. And we’ll also look for that in the urine via a functional DRAM and a tough test. So we’ll look at things with a good functional stool assessment. We’ll also maybe do that cebo breath test that lactulose SIBO breath test. Now most conventional gi Doc’s don’t do it. There are some like for thinking conventional MDS that are gastro docs, like Dr. Pimentel at a cedar Sinai, he started making more of the breath testing more mainstream on the conventional side, which is good, which is excellent. But still, a lot of conventional Doc’s aren’t even doing it. So we’ll do that. We’ll look at it we’ll run the more progressive sensitive DNA stool tests. And that will also look at the urine test which can look at bacteria in the urine and it can also So look at fungus in the urine, the [inaudible] or I can look at the hippo rate and the indicator which is a marker for bacterial overgrowth, as well as protein putrefaction not breaking down your protein. So benzoates another big one. [inaudible] in a tick is the fungus. And those are HIPAA raised another big one, there’s a couple of 2 phenylacetic acids. Another big one is about 10 markers that we’ll look at for bacterial overgrowth on an organic acid.

Evan Brand: And none of the stuff that we’re going to do is going to be invasive at all we’re going to get into kind of the, you know, compare and contrast some of the treatment options to we have regarding the testing the stool that we’re going to do, it’s an at home stool test, it’s going to be way more accurate. I’d like to put a number on it and say 100 times more accurate and sensitive but I don’t know the exact number. I would just say that. We’ve had hundreds and hundreds of people who’ve done conventional testing through their practitioners, they show up with nothing, even like doctors data has missed in fact For example, but there’s DNA stuff that will run will find or fill in the gaps where the other testing failed or lacked. So that’s going to be the at home stool testing, and then the organic acids testing. That’s amazing. I mean, that even find stuff that the stool test doesn’t find like the yeast overgrowth, and it’s all done at your house. It’s amazing. Nice.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, it’s very, very nice. It’s non invasive. I’ll tell you the problem with a lot of conventional medical assessment, if they’re doing a breath test, fine. If they’re, you know, obviously a good pal patient is really nice, especially when it’s acute, conventional medicines really good at finding Irritable Bowel Disease, like you know, krones ulcerative colitis, or something more like an ulceration. If you’re older that can be helpful at like precancerous polyps, but even that they don’t address why those polyps grow. That’s another conversation. So they’re really good at finding those kinds of things. But the question is, how do we get there is that underlying cause being addressed a lot of times it’s not, and then a lot of times it’s being managed with ppis proton pump inhibitor. Maybe a corticosteroids, some kind of like they have like natural coating products that kind of coat the gut but still don’t fix the underlying issue. May maybe Imodium or some kind of antispasmodic, or anti nausea medication, especially when IBS is a diagnosis because a lot of IBS type of diagnoses or diagnosis of exclusion, meaning they’ve ruled everything out, therefore, they give you this diagnosis, which means, hey, you have some symptoms, but we have no idea why it’s cost or what the causes so they give you this diagnosis, you feel comfortable that you got a label, but that diagnosis is a diagnosis of exclusion. It’s you rule these things out, therefore it has to be this that tells you nothing about the underlying cause. And you’re still recommended just certain medications that control the symptoms, and may create more problems over time. Like if you’re on chronic acid blockers, you’re going to have issues with minerals, and digesting protein and digesting fats and over time, you can have some serious nutrient deficiencies for sure.

Evan Brand: And then you can have mood issues, you’re gonna have sleep issues, because now you’re not making neurotransmitters from the amino acids. So now you’re irritable, you’re anxious, you’re depressed, you can’t sleep at night, and your guts still a wreck. And that was me. And I got the diagnosis of IBS and it was nothing but drugs. And back to my friend’s wife. So they recommended that we talk about that probiotic. It was just one strain, and it had a bunch of garbage fillers in it. They also, of course, told her to eat more fiber. And this is a woman who’s basically pescatarian and she’s eating cooked organic vegetables for almost every meal, I’m like, wow. So they told you eat more fiber? Did they even ask you about your diet? No, of course they didn’t. They didn’t ask you what you’re eating. I mean, vets are better at helping with gut issues. And dogs then gi dogs aren’t helping with gi issues in humans. Why? Well, because the first thing you do when you go into the vet, what’s the vet gonna say? Oh, what kind of food are you feeding him? You go and you take your puppy and oh, my puppies, you know got diarrhea. Oh, what are you feeding your puppy? But that’s not the first question that gi doc asked. Now It’s not the first question we asked either right boy definitely in our it’s definitely in our workup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh it’s something that’s going to be going to be asked on day one is one of the most important things for sure. But kind of getting back to the conventional Sykes I really want to give conventional medicine it’s Do you know hat tip where it’s good, it’s really good at a lot of these conventional, you know, irritable bowel diseases or extreme ulceration, they’re just still not good at getting to the underlying issue. So let’s say you have an Irritable Bowel Disease, right? They may give you something like a lialda or mesalamine or a corticosteroid or a biologic or an immunosuppressant or some type of antispasmodic or Imodium just something to manage those symptoms. If it’s bad enough, they may give you chemotherapy like a methotrexate, something like that. They may do deeper testing like a CT scan, if they’re looking at things or a MRI, which doesn’t have the radiation CT has the radiation they made. They made a deeper testing for that. A lot of times they’re still going to want to go inside Do that colonoscopy or endoscopy for sure, which has its own host of issues because you typically have to be under anesthesia for those, okay? And anesthesia has a major negative impact on your gut flora. And sometimes they may even want you to be on antibiotics post treatment sometimes. So it just depends upon the doctor and kind of your situation. But the anesthesia could have some negative impacts on it. And there’s some data it’s more controversial now, but I’ll put it out there. But there’s some data talking about the fact that the equipment that is used to do a colonoscopy, the cameras or endoscopy cannot fully get sanitized due to the sensitivity of the equipment. It can’t fully get sanitized. Therefore, there could be some potential fecal debris on there. from a previous patient. It’s possible right? It’s more controversial.

Evan Brand: No, I don’t think it’s controversial. I’ve seen it for years man, they call them  HAI- hospital acquired infection. It’s huge. It’s one of the leading causes of death in hospital setting is an infection that you pick up by getting a routine procedure done. I actually had a woman who had this happen, and she developed major, major major c diff infection. So she had issues before. You know, she was having a lot of stomach pain, a lot of burning. She went in, went to the gastro, they did the endoscopic, the endoscopy, and let’s go. And after she got home, she had endless, endless, almost to the point where it killed her diarrhea. And I was like, oh, that doesn’t sound good. And guess what she had Clostridium difficile, also known as C diff. So then what happened? She gets the conventional GI Doc’s to prescribe her antibiotics, very, very strong antibiotics. However, C diff is just one of the major bacterial infections that’s become resistant to the antibiotics. The CDC has been warning this about this for years. They now call what we’re in now is the post antibiotic era. Just look up CDC post antibiotic era, you can read about it. And so this woman still had seed if she did the antibiotics, she killed off any remaining good bacteria. And she was still miserable. We ran the testing on her confirmed the C. diff was there via urine and stool. And then we used anti microbial herbs. And guess what, we got the woman better. We got the C. diff gone, and she was fine. So I’m glad that you pointed out they are good at finding stuff. That’s pathological. But yeah, and then they’re not going to tell you why you have Crohn’s and they’re not going to put you on an autoimmune Paleo Diet like we are.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly, they’re not going to do that. Now, just to kind of highlight a couple things here. We talked about the hospital acquired infection, there’s also a chance of, you know, rupture, or, you know, poking the hole with with the cameras that are going into your, into your throat or into your rectum as well. It’s always a possibility. So the nice thing about some of these, the assessment and testing that we do, there’s no chance of any side effects, which is excellent and there’s no chance of disrupting your floor either with anesthesia or swallowing radioactive solution, right? So it’s nice to have an assessment that doesn’t really have a chance of causing any more problems. And it gives you that full spectrum because remember, on the conventional medicine side unless there’s this much inflammation on the scale, here’s optimal. Here’s a diagnose visible condition. There’s a large gap here. And if you’re somewhere in this gray area, this is the gray area where the doctor says, Hey, we can’t help you. Hey, it’s all in your head, hey, you’re just getting older. Here’s a prescription for an antidepressant. Like literally, these are things that happen after the fact and there are some doctors that are saying, Oh, well, here’s a probiotic, like you mentioned with your friend that called you and they recommended a crappy antibiotic right now. Hey, that’s better than jumping on the anti depressant, right? That’s at least a good step in the right direction. I appreciate the thought right A for effort, but outcome Not quite. And so the people are starting to wake up a little bit and I think people are under doctors are understanding that patients are going above and beyond and they’re reaching out the doctors like so some not a lot are striking. Trying to get through games stepped up for sure.

Evan Brand: Yeah. And the other story I had in my head, I may have mentioned this for but a male client of mine, he went in and got an endoscopy. And I don’t know exactly what part what material, what piece of the equipment, but anyway, he has a piece of equipment stuck in his body. And he has to go, he has to go in for surgery now to get that piece of equipment removed. And he just went in for a routine scan into scope. And now he’s got something stuck inside of him. And now they got to cut them open and get it out versus we’re having you wake up and pee in a cup at your house and mail it to a lab and we’re getting hundreds of biomarkers from that. And we’re having you poop into a tray and you scoop that into the collection to and you’re also doing that at home. And you’re sending that into the lab. So I mean, just in terms of ease, and you know, I’ve we’ve talked with quite a lot of few people who they’re worried about their immune system, so they don’t want to go around the hospital anyway, where there may be people that they could get exposed to COVID Yeah, so We’re saying, Look, don’t worry, you’ve never had to go anywhere. And with our practice, you still don’t have to go anywhere. And we’ll still mail you everything. You don’t even have to go to a pharmacy yet to pick it up. We’re going to mail you what you need to your door. So that’s fun, more convenient for sure.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it. But we did a pretty good job. Now we’ll just kind of compare and contrast a lot of the treatments, right? Because I have my six our protocol on how we work on digests or work on supporting someone’s health. So of course, gastroenterologist are typically going to make zero recommendations on food. Now some of the more progressive ones may say, hey, cut out gluten dairy, refined sugar, that that could be common that a lot of times, that’s not going to be enough, or they’ll recommend a conventional low fodmap diet, which could still have other grains and other inflammatory foods in it. So that still may not be great. So we have kind of our own special kinds of diets that we use, whether it’s a specific carbohydrate diet, cutting out females, salicylates, whether it’s not immune diet, which is kind of paleo plus, right, paleo. No grains legumes dairy right on the immunes no nuts seeds nightshades eggs we may do a keto we may do a carnivore we may look at cutting out histamines and a lot of different dietary templates that we have used thousands of times and we kind of know where the best ones to apply are, that’s important because nine times out of 10 your conventional doc won’t even touch that. Okay, next up is we’re going to recommend digestive support. Now your conventional Doc’s more likely to prescribe an acid blocker than anything to help improve digestion. Now, an acid blocker may be reasonable if there’s an ulcer or an acute ulcer. Now, a lot of times also like pain can improve with digestive support. So there’s also like pain we make ask to try a tiny bit of acid, the tiniest amount, maybe a teaspoon, or an eighth of a teaspoon of ACV or lemon juice. If that causes any irritation. We can all assets we just lean on enzymes. We just lean on maybe some bile salts and then we work on adding in extra healing and soothing nutrients to help support the gut lining conventional Medicine are not going to recommend any healing soothing nutrients, they’re not going to recommend glutamine, aloe, dgl, zinc, rising carnosine, they’re not going to recommend any of these high quality nutrients to help support the Go on.

Evan Brand: Let me point out to if you’re putting anything with acid on the shelf, it’s on the shelf temporarily, we’re likely going to bring that in at a future date where, you know, I got into the debate with the GI doc back in the day, and I asked her, Well, why do I feel better when I do extra acid and extra enzyme? She goes, No, that’s not possible. I’m like, I take more stomach acid, the more stomach acid I take, I feel better. I have less bloating. I have less gut pain. Nope, that’s not possible.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, that’s someone that does not have an understanding of physiology, right? Because physiology tells us the more stressed and inflamed we get, the more our sympathetic nervous system is activated. Where does that jump blood to? arms, fingers, feet, why run, fight flee. So all that goes away from the intestine so we have a decrease in our digestive juices and we have a decrease in acidity because that’s part of the juices that are produces and then the acidity triggers enzymes to be produced. So if you have any type of acid irritation, unless we’re coughing up blood, or we have an active Oh sir, I always recommend adding a very tiny bit because sometimes, least half the time, it can make it better. Sometimes the mucosa is so raw that it can’t handle it. So if that’s the case, if we can’t handle it, we lean more on enzymes and healing soothing nutrients. If we can’t handle it, then we just gently taper it up. And again, we’re typically recommending a stool test that’s going to look at old cold blood. So we’re going to get a really good window if there’s blood in the stool or run a conventional blood test that will look at red blood cell hemoglobin hematocrit and particular sites, okay, particular sites or young, immature red blood cells over losing a lot of blood. Guess what goes up particular site. So if we see a lot of particular sites that could be a sign of blood loss. Now, women could have that because they bleed a lot men straight Why’s and have a lot of estrogen dominance? So you have to understand the context of what you’re testing. And when.

Evan Brand: Yeah, good point, good point, the calprotectin we are going to be looking at so that is one marker that does have good overlap from conventional to the functional side. We love looking at calprotectin that’ll kind of give us a clue on just how inflamed is the gut? And is it possible that we could throw in a little bit of acid right away, and I’ve had people that they have had high calprotectin. And we were able to still do a low dose, maybe two to 400 milligrams of patane. And that was enough to really calm things down and improve their digestion so much that we then infer that the malabsorption was creating the inflammation in the first place. And all we did is help them break down their foods better and then the inflammation always drops. It’s so fun to see that I’m sure you get the same high from it that I do where you see high calprotectin you’re like well look at this number. It’s scary. We don’t like it. Yeah, protocol, retest boom, look at the levels drop. It’s so satisfying.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I would also say a lot of the inflammation and the irritation that is in the inside. decimal track can be from poor digestion. So the food purifies it ferments, it runs cinephiles, it basically rots inside your intestines, and that creates his own host of acids that can be irritating. And sometimes taking a little bit of a digestive acid can decrease the rotting acids from the food. So that kind of thought process is a little bit of acid can decrease the production of more acids from the rotting of the food. And big big clinical pro write this down. I always recommend taking acid with food already in the stomach. People can have false positive ulceration symptoms with HCL by not taking their HCL with food and that’s protein and fat. So I always like protein and fat on the bottom of the tummy kind of coating it and then we’ll typically come in if we’re on the fence with a 16th to an eighth of a teaspoon of ACV or lemon juice, tiny bit and some water just a tiny bit and then that’s a good first step because if you can handle that, then usually you can work your way up. If you can get to a teaspoon to a tablespoon, then usually we can start to add in supplemental HCL and go from there. But worst case, if we can’t, or we’re just being more conservative, we just lean more on enzymes. We go to the gut healing nutrients, and the third are repair right repairing the hormones and the gut healing nutrients where we support a lot of the adrenals. and stuff as well. We need testing for that. The fourth RS where we come in and knock out infections. Most people on the conventional side the antibiotic is prescribed first, not fourth. So we set the table so we can go in there and deal with infections better. And then we’re using herbs that have more of a broad spectrum, but I’m more selective for the bad critters versus the good guys, which don’t create as much of a rebound overgrowth, and then we deal with repopulate rynok good bacteria and we’re not doing just to defeat along them with a whole bunch of additives. We’re doing professional strength professional grade, high potency antibiotics that have you know, that the amount of probiotics on our labels is where that would be at expiration. Not at manufacturing. So when you get a product from us, you’re probably getting double the amount that’s actually on the bottle. And then six RS retesting, and we understand that siblings and their spouses may pass infections back and forth. That’s really important to keep that in mind when we have a chronic issue.

Evan Brand: Yeah, and that’s not that’s not going to get brought up ever. I mean, I actually had a actually had a medical doc send me an email, and they were mad at me because I blamed the husband’s H. pylori infection on the wife. And so the wife was working with this doc and was saying, this practitioner, this guy on the internet, is saying that I’m the reason that my husband got reinfected with h pylori. So the medical Doc’s like that’s not possible. That’s not true. I’m like, Look, man, I could send you hundreds of cases I’ve got before and afters here where we tested someone. We then made a protocol we got rid of the infection two to three months later the infection comes back within test the spouse, boom, the spouse is positive, then we put both Have them on a protocol, boom. Now both of them are clear and both of them stay clear. So, I mean, why that would be controversial? I don’t know. But it was it was a funny email.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I mean, I have one study right here in front of me it’s called saliva secretions in the efficacy of H. pylori. They’re talking about H. pylori was detected in dental plaque and oral lesions and in the saliva.

Evan Brand: When was the year of that study? Just curious.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I’ll pull it up here right now. So you can see it may put it right up on the screen-

Evan Brand: Because maybe, you know, maybe this was a guy who maybe he hasn’t looked at a journal in 20 years and he doesn’t know that this is possible or true. And while you’re doing that, too, I want to say something about the-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 2011 but there’s a lot of studies on this stuff. So there is going to be some h pylori in the saliva for sure.

Evan Brand: Yeah, and I want to talk about the the herbs in such too. So the cool thing is with the anti microbial herbs, those alone can help reduce them. inflammation and we made out of the gate, as opposed to saying, Hey, here’s an acid blocker out of the gate. If we’re waiting on testing, you know, if someone’s really miserable, it may be 2 3 4 weeks turnaround time. We could throw something in right out of the gate that’s going to address and calm things down, which is very, very good. We talked about a guy had that was a teenager with panchal itis we talked about him a few podcasts ago. But anyway, we got him started on a really potent aloe extract right away. And by the time we got his lab results, Two, Three weeks later, he was already significantly better in less pain, less misery. So that’s the cool thing is there are some quote like, I don’t want to call him urgent care, but for lack of a better term, there are some quick fixes that we can implement right away before we get testing.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. And then right here, salivary secretions, the Journal of dental think this is out of two round salivary secretions and advocacy of H. pylori eradication. So basically, they see that hey, the oral cavity may be affected, right. And they see that there could be saliva. saliva could contain H pylori secretions and then the conclusion is they find that h pylori eradication from the stomach may reduce the may reduce the salivary secretion of H. pylori. So we see that in some of the studies and this has been around for a while, so, it’s good to know that and that just kind of supports our theory that we’ve seen clinically with spouses passing things back and forth. And, again, you know, it doesn’t have to be a sexual thing, just sharing drinks and maybe silverware and just living in a house where those kind of things happen easier, right? That increases the chance.

Evan Brand: Oh, yeah, we’ve seen it in kids where it’s like, oh, hey, honey tribe, I did this organic dairy free ice cream, and mom’s got h pylori here. She has given her two three year old the spoon and then you and I’ve seen you know, countless children 2 3 4 5 6 year old kids with H. pylori, and my daughter had it my oldest summer she had h polarized so we tested her gut she had parasites first we eradicated those then on the retest H. pylori showed up and then luckily we were able to get rid of that. So you know, we clinically and personally deal with these things all day, every day, so we have a lot of, we have a lot of sympathy and empathy when it comes to the gut work here. And I just feel for all those people like me that they go to the doctor’s, you have so much hope you’re so anxious about the appointment. I remember feeling comforted. I remember I was in so much pain. I remember being in that office waiting for the doctor to come in. And I just felt comforted back then being in that environment. I’m waiting in the office. I’m like, Yes, she’s going to come in here he or she’s going to come in here. They’re going to give me the answer. They’re going to help me they’re going to get me solved. And then my bubble just got burst. I remember walking out of that place just so disappointed. I thought, oh my god, I remember the beginning of my appointment here. I was so thrilled and happy. I’m going to get to the bottom of this thing. And then here I am, you know, X amount of time later so disappointed and had to keep searching. So we feel for you, we’ve been there.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% and then again, just because someone has h pylori. The healthier you are, the stronger your immune system, the better levels of IGA you used to create which is going to be in the saliva. mucosa mucosal membrane barriers that’s gonna fight these infections. So it’s just because you get exposed to it in the saliva doesn’t mean you’re necessarily going to get an infection. But the more immuno compromised, you are stressed, weaker adrenals gut barrier integrity issues, poor digestion, the greater chance that h pylori that’s in the saliva could gain a foothold in your body. It’s very possible.

Evan Brand: Yeah, good point. I’m glad you pointed that out. Because there’s going to be a couple haters. Eventually, they’re going to hear this and go, Oh, that’s bullcrap. You know, 50% of the population has H. pylori, you’re painting it to be the bad guy dead. Well, in the modern world, people are so toxic, so stressed, so immunocompromised that I don’t think we can coexist the way we used to, because our buckets are so full. So these things do tend to take on a more pathogenic pro inflammatory state than maybe previously where people stress bucket and toxin bucket was less full. So yeah, I’m glad you made that point.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and again, not everyone will get exposed to it, because their immune system will just knock it out via their IGA and some may get it but they’re going to be able to be Ace symptomatic, and they’re okay. And then they’re just like, hey, this isn’t a problem. And then they project their their good health and their asymptomatic status to Hey, you know this, this can’t be the problem, because I had the same thing, but everyone has a different constitution. And because of that constitution difference, it could affect you differently. For sure.

Evan Brand: Yeah. Well said, Well, I think we did a good job. We covered the testing piece, kind of the conventional colonoscopy and endoscopy, barium X ray scans, MRIs, CAT scans, CT swallowing, radioactive tracers, compared to the at home, organic acids and genetic DNA based stool testing that we’re doing at home with people. We compared the drugs, the antibiotics, the acid blocking medications, the antispasmodics, the immune suppressant or immune modifiers, like you mentioned, possibly an extreme case a chemo drug, versus we’re going to be going for more inflammatory herbs, natural antimicrobial herbs, anti parasitic antifungals, possibly some extra acid and enzymes, maybe some zinc carnosine and other things to heal up the gut later. Maybe some additional mushrooms and adaptogenic herbs to strengthen the immune system, possibly using these things throughout the family with spouses or children to help protect them as well. And then of course, the diet piece possibly, like my dad when he was suffering. When I was a young kid and he was suffering with diverticulitis, he was told to eat more fiber and that was his diet protocol. And it was take you know, GMO Metamucil psyllium husk or whatever it was with natural with it probably wasn’t even natural flavoring back then it was probably artificial flavoring. And that was the protocol versus you mentioned the templates so possibly, low fodmap low histamine, paleo autoimmune carnivore. There’s different things that we’re going to do based on our educated guesses plus, with the labs, the information and then people’s food journals, how are they feeling basically-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Even cooking, cooking, a lot of times just cooking those foods up better, avoiding raw foods and that can help a lot right the cooking is pre digestion and if your tummy has a heart digesting the food The more we can pre digest that food within reason you know steamed sauteed even stews or soups instapot crockpot pressure cooker that can really help with helping the tummy access those nutrients better. 

Evan Brand: I brought out the Instant Pot The other day you know it’s summertime it’s hot so it’s not very attractive to bring out the Instant Pot but man, we threw some organic purple sweet potatoes in that instant pot, 10 minutes. It’s awesome. Oh my god, they were so good.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, yeah. Like like my carb cheat on the weekend is going to be potatoes because why? Cuz they’re grain free. They’re starchy. I can handle them on the autoimmune side. Some may not be able to but it’s just it’s a really good healthy safe starts and it gives you that mouthfeel that you’d miss from like, you know, breads or grains. That’s my big cheat and I do 10 minutes on the instapot on that it’s wonderful or, you know, at a nice Steakhouse is pretty good too.

Evan Brand: It was hard to believe I could I mean, it was a pretty good sized potato and I thought 10 minutes there’s no way this thing’s going to be done. It was done. We put some butter on that bad boy, some garlic salt. Delicious. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It takes 45 minutes to do Boiling or steaming in real life. I mean, the instapot is pretty amazing how fast they can cook stuff. 

Evan Brand: This episode is brought to you by Instant pot.

Dr. Justin Marchegian: I know right? Awesome well if you guys are enjoying this content and you wanna share with your family and friends, or you wanna dive in and get support from myself, Dr J or Evan, EvanBrand.com, reach out for Evan. JustInHealth.com reach out to myself, Dr. J. If you guys enjoy the content we’re available, click down below, whatever you’re source, we have links down below to get access. Make sure you give us a comment. Let us know what you think, what you like, what parts resonate with you, give us a comment, like, share, hit the bell for notifications and we appreciate you guys sharing this with your family and friends, so they can become empowered about their health. You guys have a phenomenal day. Take care ya’ll.

Evan Brand: Bye now.

Dr. Justin Marchegian: Bye.


References:

https://justinhealth.com/

Audio Podcast:

 

Common Childhood Infections, Digestive Health, Gut Issues, Bacterial Overgrowth | Podcast #200

Kids are more sensitive than adults, but gut bugs don’t discriminate based on age. Do you want these little critters to devour your child’s health?

Today’s podcast talks about food consumption, infection, bacteria exposure, and kids’ health. Watch and know why children have gut bugs and how we can naturally address it. Sharing is caring!

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

In this episode, we cover:

06:36    Gut Health for Kids

10:54    Healthier Substitutes to Sugar

23:35    Breastfeeding Vs. Lab Formulas

26:27    Gut issues with school-aged children.

35:17    Alternatives to Flu Shots

43:16    Correct Dosing

48:15    Chlorine can Affect Gut Microbiome

51:29    Filter Systems

Youtube-icon

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey there! It’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani in the house. Evan Brand, how are we doing today?

Evan Brand: Hey, man. I’m doing great. I’m super refreshed. I was so jealous of you getting out on your boat all the time, so I finally got to get out on the boat myself and I had a blast! I mean, when you’re out on the water and all you see are trees and blue sky and the reflections on the water, that’s a very recharging thing to do.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, it’s totally recharging, especially if you get some fresh air, little Vitamin D– Maybe you do uh– some cold thermogenesis too. Get in the water where it’s a little cold.

Evan Brand: I jumped in. It felt great. We saw tons of different birds. I mean, I brought my binoculars out on the boat so we were just looking at all sorts of birds. We saw an Osprey bomb dive and catch a fish. That was really cool.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow! That’s cool. Do you know if you if you’re swimming in Lakewater, do they have– do they have a grounding effect like– like going barefoot on the uh–

Evan Brand: I’m sure.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -front grass wood?

Evan Brand: I’m sure it does. I mean, there is no electricity. It’s not like you’re swimming in uh– a pool that’s hooked up to a big water pump or something. You know, that’s about as primal environment zoo can get.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s great. Excellent. [crosstalk] so you guys in–

Evan Brand: I fe— I felt really good.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s good to hear. I see you got some weights behind you. You– You’ve been lifting some weights recently?

Evan Brand: Uuuh–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You’re looking a little bigger.

Evan Brand: Uuuh– Well, you know, those– those are the same weights back there that I’ve had. I just moved my desk around. But uh– But yes. I have been lifting more, and luckily, no pain. No– No pain. I’m– I’m– I’m back into the– to the weights without trouble.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Good. I got to get back a little bit more into lifting. Like– My big movement is, I’ve been doing a couple of Tabatas a week and then I’ve been getting like the last three days 15,000 steps per day the last three days. So, I’m getting uhm— you know, about 45 to 50 miles a week of walking.

Evan Brand: That’s insane.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I mean, it’s nice. Then I got my little treadmill desk uh– Well, treadmill is up here, and then I have my little stepper that I do a lot of, you know, maybe three to five thousand steps there if I’m like– if I’m feeling a little bit more aggressive at night, I’ll– I’ll put it up in front of the TV and do some steps while watching TV is too.

Evan Brand: Oh! One update I do have for people; I did get an Oura ring. I do not have it on…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, yes.

Evan Brand: …but I did get the ring and I do put it on airplane mode at night, and I’ve been tracking my sleep at night. And I think it’s kind of silly overall just to track your sleep and that’s it. So what I’m trying to do is, I’m gonna start experimenting with certain adaptogenic herbs and certain protocols and see if I can change the amount of deep sleep, if I could change the amount of REM sleep that I get. So for example, maybe I take Ashwagandha, maybe a little bit of GABA, and then see what happens. Do I get 20 minutes extra deep sleep by doing that? Or do I get more REM sleep? I want to see how the herbs change the sleep rhythm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think that’s smart, man. I mean, I’m gonna take some of my herbs right now here to get my adrenals prime and ready for a long week. But I think things like that are great because it’s not only– the perception is taking adaptogens helps you perceive stress better because input comes in and then you don’t feel as jazzed or as kind of uh– spider senses are tingling ‘cause it allows you to interpret that stress uhm— a little bit better so you’re not as wound up.

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And then, of course, you know, just having good healthy habits to go to, like movements, uhm— like exercise, like prayer or meditation or visualization. Having those kinds of techniques, I think there is another way to take that energy or stress and– any kind of channel it, I think is also great.

Evan Brand: Yeah. The other thing too that I’m interested in is to see exactly uuh— how like the blue-blocking glasses–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm–

Evan Brand: –help me. Like, it’s my– because it also tracks your heart rate variability and it also tracks your resting heart rate. And you can see, your resting heart rate dropped towards the middle of the night. So, I’m curious to see. “Okay. Hey, if I blasted myself with some light before bed, did that actually impacted anything?” We know that it does but it’s gonna be good to be able to quantify stuff.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. Like myself, I noticed, if I have a little bit of dark chocolate before bed, I get a little rev. Like, dark chocolate for me has– has some very good cognitive benefits. I am very focused. I’m very alert. I’m not overly stimulated but I definitely have this kind of steady energy. So I do notice, if I’m trying to get to bed earlier, I either do less or I just, you know, don’t do anything. So I’m– I’m moving like my snacks towards like uh– Almond butter, Green Apple with some Cinnamon as a kind of a snack so I kind of shifting my snacks a little bit, but I’d still, I’d find that if I do a blue-blocking glasses like my swannies, it does like make me tired. Like I just get tired really fast. I’m like, “Whoah!”

Evan Brand: That’s a good sign. Yeah. I’ve got these little yellow ones here. We were talking about flicker from screens. I won’t put them on here ‘cause I’ll look silly with the reflection. But these little yellow ones, they’ve been doing me pretty good so I’m gonna keep testing them, and I’ll report back to people. ‘Cause it’s like, “Hey, look.” We don’t want people to not enjoy modern life and technology, but there’s-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.

Evan Brand: –a good way and a smart way to do it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, yeah, a hundred percent. And I know, we uhm— we’re chatting before the show, we were just talking about, you know, the investment that we’re making into our monitors, right? We both are all about– We have the– the– the flicker-free monitors along with the low blue-light. So, this allows us to be working with our patients and have all this technology. Uh– so we don’t, you know, deleteriously affect our health.

Evan Brand: Yes.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So we’re trying to find technology that allows us to perform well but also be functional.

Evan Brand: Yeah, I mean, Dr. Mercola, he– you know– basically, made fun of himself when I talked with him because he was using a 50-inch TV– 50-inch TV, blasting himself with blue light and flicker, etc., and then he gets on this whole EMF rabbit hole. And now, I don’t know what he’s using now but I’m guessing it’s not that TV anymore.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. The problem with TVs is, number one, they’re– you aren’t designed to be that close to them.

Evan Brand: Right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So if you’re that close, you’re getting a ton of that, and I don’t think they have like the low blue light, low flicker TV stuff. I know they have it from monitors ‘cause people have the eyestrain issues ‘cause they’re so close. So I think, going with the monitors like I’m on a Viewsonic that’s got uh– a no-flicker, low blue light, which is great. I know we talked about you. You’re gonna be tested in the Viewsonic, the new Viewsonic, as well as the– What’s the other brand?

Evan Brand: The other one is BenQ.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: BenQ. So, anyone here is on monitors or needs them for work and stuff, really look at a good external monitor that has the low flicker light, as well as the uhm— low blue light. So, I’ll put a link to the ones that I have. I have three big 30-inch ones, and then my laptop monitor, so four t– technically, I’d usually only use just the three external ones, and they work phenomenally.

Evan Brand: That’s awesome. So, what we’re kind of chatting about– and then, of course, we can go into other topics– but we get a lot of questions about kids now that the kids are back in school at the time we’re talking and towards the end of September here. A lot of moms are saying, “Hey, look. My kids got these symptoms like they’re complaining of tummy aches. What should I be doing to investigate my child’s health?” And the question is great. It’s really not that different than what you would do with an adult, but I think there are some important things that we can talk about that are a little different for kids in terms of gut health. So let’s dive into this.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely, and I– you know, myself, I have a 13-month old child. You have a– a 2-year old child. So, we have a kid. We know what it’s like. We’re in the trenches. So, we’re talking about it from a place of empathy. I think when you have kids. You have to have like you’re non-negotiables, right? Like my kid’s not gonna whine to the point where I say, “Okay. Okay, Aden, you know, you don’t have to wear your seatbelt in the car today.” Right? Or, “Hey. When you go on your bike, you don’t have to wear your helmet when you’re on your bike.” Right? Like, these are like non-negotiables, I’d say, for 99.9% of parents. But it’s amazing though, those non-negotiables– For me, I have certain foods that are non-negotiable, right? So I have non-negotiable foods but how parents will negotiate with foods, and then those foods become a habit, right? So, with my son, Aden, he drinks– He doesn’t do a ton of green vegetables, right? Just a little bit. But what’s the substitute. Well, we do green juice. So he does Spinach, Kale, Celery, and Cucumber, and uh– Parsley and Basil, and it’s all ground up in a green juice, no added sugar. So we got a little bit of green juice. He’ll do a little bit of sweet potato. He loves his berries. He r– rotate between Blueberry, Raspberry, Strawberry, and Blackberry, and we noticed that he had uh– some would start to come out in a stool after a period of time so we just rotate between those. And then, he has meats — pork– you know, pork, chicken, fish, and then, some egg yolks. And then, of course, we have like a couple of starches– squash, sweet potatoes. And then we try to get some veggies in there when possible, like cut up Broccoli. Broccoli, in thin strips, sautéed in– in uh– in uhm— butter with some sea salts, and then we’ll do the green juice. So we kind uh– we were able to figure out what the substitute is so we can get some more greens in, but it’s a non-negotiable.

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And, we just celebrated his uhm— birthday recently. We had two birthdays for him. Uhm– One with his other family, with uh– my wife’s side of the family, so they could be there. And we got him this organic, gluten-free cake and he took one bite of it and threw it on the ground.

Evan Brand: That’s awesome.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right?

Evan Brand: [laughs]

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And it– it’s because– This is why I try to get a hold of my parents that I– that I coach, that have kids. It’s that kids’ taste buds reset.

Evan Brand: Yes.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And they become less sensitive, and then when you palm them with sugar, it’s like, “Whoah!” It’s like, you’re used to like watching stuff on your TV and now you’re going into a movie theater with huge speakers surrounding sound and subwoofer, and you’re like, “Whoah! Okay. This is overwhelming.” So it’s kind of like that. But the things are, so if kids are eating a whole bunch of sugar, and now that’s being pulled out, their taste buds are kind of like have to down-regulate. It’s like, “Okay. You’re at the concert. Lots and lots of music. Lots and lots of speakers. Then you come home, and it’s like everything sounds like a whisper.” So their taste buds are just under-stimulated, and it will take a couple of weeks for those taste buds to reset. Now the big thing you can do is we can make sure Zinc is present. We can make sure good quality; essential fatty acids are present. We can supplement with Cod Liver Oil, right? We can– We can use uhm— smoothies, where we provide a little bit of sweetness with some berries, or maybe add some Monk Fruit or Stevia to get some of those nutrients or Collagen amino acids in there. So we just got to make sure like– Alright. What are our non-negotiables? Let’s make sure we prioritize food. Food is really important. I think parents– most parents get lulled into it ‘cause their– their kids watch TV or they go to uh- you know, other kids’ houses. Most parents don’t prioritize it, so it’ easy to get them sucked in and then they want it. ‘Cause, remember, these foods are designed to be addicting. So, once your kids are addicted, they’re gonna be on you to feed them. So you have to do your best to kind of create the shelter. And remember, your kid’s palate in the first five years of their life, that’s where their taste buds and their palate is formed. So, you don’t have to be perfect ‘til they’re 18. You just really have to give them those first couples of years up to age 5. You really form that palate and then their taste are gonna be dialed in, and then you’re gonna have that kind of effect like my son had, where it took the cake through on the ground ‘cause it was just too much for him, right?

Evan Brand: Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So just– We know, you don’t get to be perfect but you just got to have alright, “What are the goals?” And then find the healthy substitutes. Like, I’m still gonna give my kid some cake on his birthday because, you know, he’s a kid. I want them to have those experiences, but we found healthier substitutes, right? Find the substitute. You don’t have to take away your kid’s experience but you can just find the healthier versions.

Evan Brand: Yeah. And even if you have to make something and you can’t find store-bought, I mean, there’s like grain-free cookies. There are grain-free cakes. I’ve seen some. There’s a brand, I think it’s called Simple Mill or Simple Mills, with an ‘s.” But they have a grain-free option like Almond-flour cookies, and it’s like less than one gram of sugar per cookie.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Awesome. Like, for instance, my wife and I over the weekend, we had pizza. What did we have? We got the cauliflower crust, and then, we just had some organic tomato pizza sauce. And then I had some Almond cheese that has coconut oil in it. No bad fats. So we just do- here’s the crust already pre-bought. We just spread some tomato sauce on it. Got some Almond cheese. We cooked up some grass-fed meat and laid it on top. Cooked it for 10 minutes. It’s out. And we hit a phenomenal meal.

Evan Brand: I’m gonna have to buy that. My wife’s been wanting pizza superbad so I’m gonna have to do that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, yeah! Yeah. I mean, you can get, I think it’s Caulifornia.

Evan Brand: Okay.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Caulifornia kind of a little plant cau— cauliflower in California. And they have a great pizza crust, very low carb, organic, nutrient-dense. And then, you can just get, if you want, the cheese. Just there are some pretty decent Almond cheeses out there that taste really good. And uhm— just got to look at the ingredients in the back. Some have Canola oil, some have junkie fats in it. Some don’t. So you just got to look at and see which ones make the most sense. I mean–

Evan Brand: And where’d you find the crust of that? That was whole foods?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We– Yeah, hopefully, it has it. You can order online as well. I think Cappello’s also has one as well. And then you can figure out what you like. They do have a nice Cassava Tapioca one that’s very good. It– It’s like– kind of like uhm— It’s really stiff and kind of hard, so it gives you that little bit more body to it. But it’s nice. So you can– you can do these things. You can– you can have the experience. You can give your kids the experience without all the side effects.

Evan Brand: That’s– I mean, that’s the best part of it too. It’s like, they get made fun of so much already for bringing a healthy lunch to school. You know, we talk with these moms and their kid gets bullied ‘cause they brought a lunchbox and they have like an organic apple. And all the other kids are drinking chocolate milk at school, which is high fructose corn syrup and a bunch of other garbage.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: And if the kid does it, they come home with a tummy ache. Now, I think the diet piece was great. Let’s chat about infections and kids. I mean, this is very, very common. I’ve already tested my daughter’s stool twice. She’s two years old but I’ve already tested her gut twice just to be sure what’s going on. And she did have some bacterial overgrowth that we did use some herbs to address. And her gut and her poops are awesome. They got a little bad, so we thought something was weird. Tested it. Showed up–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: -with Klebsiella. She had Klebsiella overgrowth and then something else. I don’t remember what it was. Maybe Streptococcus or something, but we did get rid of it and retested to confirm. And uh– I see infections in one-year-olds, two-year-olds, three-year-olds, five-year-olds, ten-year-olds, 20-year olds– I mean, these bugs don’t discriminate based on your age. That’s for sure.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. Just to highlight one more thing before we dive into that, ‘cause you brought up a great point. As the– As the parent, uhm— it’s really important. Don’t project what your– what you think your kid needs. I see a lot of parents that uhm— they project like a lot. It’s been so ingrained in our society that part of the kid being a kid is then having and experiencing junk food.

Evan Brand: Right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And I think it’s really important that’s– that’s all marketing. As m– my parents grew up in the 50’s, right? There really wasn’t processed junk food out there at all. Like you just– it didn’t really exist. There were just real whole foods and the whole, you know, junk food industry really hadn’t begun ‘til the 60’s and 70’s. So these weren’t even options for most people. Uh– My parents, for instance, didn’t have that option. This is all newer stuff. So, try to– if you– if you’re a parent today like I’m challenged to say I want to give my kids some fun experiences but I want them to be healthy. So, find the healthy substitutes out there. There are lots of good bloggers that specialize in this stuff, and they have lots of good substitutes that will give your kid that feeling and that great, you know, the atmosphere of being a kid and experiencing different things but also having to be healthy. So have the health mindset first. Make eating healthy for your kid a non-negotiable. Okay. Like if we’re gonna have pasta, for instance, here’s what we’re gonna do. We’re gonna do miracle noodles that are glucomannan-based, which is like a Japanese Konnyaku yam and had zero calories, zero carbs, and we’ll sautee them and some ghee. We may add some coconut cream with it, and then we’ll put in some grass-fed meat. So we get some extra protein and maybe a side of some vegetables. RIght? So we can do healthy things and have those experiences and not go without too. So just think like that. Now–

Evan Brand: That sounds delicious. Do you get those miracle noodles? DO you order those or do you buy those locally?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I get them on Amazon.

Evan Brand: Oh, do you? Okay.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup. I get them on Amazon. I love them. I sauté them in some ghee for five minutes, and then they’re done. And then I’ll cut up some uhm

Evan Brand: Do you cook them first? Do you cook the noodles like you boil them in water or something first?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: No. I mean, for me, I strain them out with some cold water, and then I put some ghee on a uhm— on a griddle, just a pan. And then I just sauté them in there for three to five minutes and then serve them.

Evan Brand: And they’re done?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s it.

Evan Brand: Then do they have different flavors or is it just miracle noodle and that’s it?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, I mean, there’s not really flavors when it comes to noodles but they have a different type. They have angel hair, fettuccine.

Evan Brand: Oh.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I believe they have miracle noodle rice too, which is great if you want a rice substitute. So I like that if you– if you want that kind of pasta feel. I mean, I grew up in an Italian household.

Evan Brand: Right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We had pasta a lot. And it’s kind of nice to have that so– And then, we’ll do the spaghetti squash as well, uh– spaghetti squash noodles. I love those, and then we’ll do the zucchini noodles. These are great.

Evan Brand: That’s great. Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Miracle noodles really feel like noodles.

Evan Brand: I’m gonna have to try them. I mean, typically, we just do organic white rice, maybe once a week in the pressure cooker, and I do really, really good with it. No issues. No skin rashes in the baby from the rice. So we do that once a week. But besides that, we don’t do any- any grains but it will be fun to have it like a pasta alternative. So I may look at–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: –any of those.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and we got the pizza alternative and we got the–

Evan Brand: That’s cool.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: –alternative. That’s–

Evan Brand: Very cool.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent. So getting back on your thing, gut health’s really important. Now, why do kids have issues with their guts? Uhm– It’s a combination of number one, what did the mom eat when she was pregnant, right, was there pesticide exposure, was their antibiotic exposure, uh– was there excess sugar and carbohydrate issues uh– when she was pregnant. That’s number one. Uh– Number two, what– was there a vaginal birth? Did you get some good vaginal uhm— bacteria activation with the birth? And then number three, what kind of exposure did the child have off the bat? Uhm– Growing up, I only breastfed, I think, for the first like three or four months, and which my moms like, “Oh! You only wanted to eat that long?” I said, “Well, I sh– three or four month-year olds shouldn’t get a choice. [laughs]

Evan Brand: [laughs]

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: [crosstalk] –for at least a year but anyway, that’s neither here nor there.

Evan Brand: I got uh– I got zero– zero days of breastfeeding so–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. So there you go. So I mean, you can be healthy, right? But uhm— obv– obviously we’re healthy but there’s a lot of research out there. The longer breastfeeding you have, uh– the better chance of health. My son, Aden, is 13 months and he’s not gotten sick once. World Health Organization recommends 18 months, a year and a half. My son’s 13 months and he’s doing well with that, but uhm— moral of the story is, I was fed lots of dairy and grains in that first six months, and I got lots of ear infections. And the ear infection caused lots of antibiotics. I needed tubes eventually in my ears because–

Evan Brand: Oh.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: –of the chronic ear infections. And I had ear infections into my even early teen years. Once I stopped gluten and conventional dairy, gone.

Evan Brand: Surprise!

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Something to do is uh– this– this– the sequelae, right? Your kids are on gluten or dairy. They start getting ear infections. What happens? Antibiotics. Antibiotics. Antibiotics. Gut flora goes down, down, down, down. Dysbiosis, yeast, and fungal overgrowth. Yeast and fungal overgrowth perpetuate what? More refined sugar consumption because these critters produce chemicals to make you crave these refined carbohydrates, and the cycle goes on and on and on. The gut gets leakier, and this is the kind of autoimmune zonulin leaky gut food allergy. More zonulin, tight junctions open up. Autoimmune conditions start to occur. So this is the pathology that we want to stop. This is like this pathological downwards cycle. So we want to make sure to cut out the most allergenic foods. Keep your kids healthy initially, and this is gonna get you off this antibiotic exposure cascade. And then, of course, you know, the pesticides and the roundup, the glyphosate, all intensify this downward cycle.

Evan Brand: Yeah, well, you brought up a great point about the autoimmune disease. The term Juvenile Rheumatoid Arthritis did not exist until pretty recently. I don’t know if this was a five-year-old term or three years old or ten years old, but you’d used to not hear of such a thing as Juvenile Rheumatoid Arthritis now. They– When I say they, I’m guessing the FDA, whoever creates diseases so that they can then legally market a drug for them. They had to come up with the juvenile term because they were seeing that so many people, younger and younger were getting Rheumatoid Arthritis, and that used to be something that quotes on quote started to occur in your 40’s or 50’s, and now it’s occurring in five-year-olds, ten-year-old, fifteen-year-olds. They have no idea why. So what do they do? They just put the word juvenile in front of it, and but we know, behind the scenes. It’s the same mechanism. We know that uh– for example when we test uh– a lot of children in teenagers and adults as well. We test our guts. There’s uh– There’s an infection called Prevotella copri. If you just Google Prevotella Rheumatoid Arthritis, you’re gonna find that 75% of people who were newly diagnosed with Rheumatoid Arthritis. They actually have a Prevotella infection, and so, we can’t legally say cure. But what we can say is if you get rid of that infection, you could shut this autoimmune disease down. And there’s a whole category of bacteria that Justin and I test on every single client. There’s a whole category of potential autoimmune triggers. Meaning, if you have this bacterial overgrowth, you have stress, you have the Zonulin elevated, which is taking those tight junctions and ripping them apart. You’ve got the potential to get an autoimmune disease, and those bacteria, or parasites, or worms, or protozoa, or the yeast that you mentioned from the antibiotics, or the sugar. All those things add up and then all the sudden the trigger on the gun gets pulled, and then you got this autoimmune disease. So what our goal is, is practitioners is– Let’s try to prevent the disease from occurring. You know, why wait until somebody gets a diagnosis. Then they’re motivated. It’s like, “Well you should have been motivated before you got the diagnosis because it’s much, much easier to get someone out of the rabbit hole before they entered the hole.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. ‘Cause it’s not just one thing. It’s the– this one thing happens and it knocks over all these other dominoes that– that push you more in this direction to the next to the next to the next. Kind of like the ear infection thing perpetuated the antibiotics which perpetuated the yeast overgrowth which perpetuated more gluten and more dairy which perpetuated the antibiotics. And then you’re like, you know, five, eight, ten years down the rabbit hole, and you got a whole bunch of issues. So, we want to educate parents, and– you know– “Okay. What are these first dominoes that could fall and where could they go?” So, there’s that, and I think the first intersection is, “Okay. We want that good bacterial stimulation at birth.” So, my wife would have to have a C-section because of uhm— she had a fibroid that was removed a while back that was on the bigger side, and based on our timeline, we– we couldn’t use natural means because of how long it may take. So, we had to have her fibroid removed. And once it’ removed like that, most obese are not gonna allow a vaginal birth just because of the potential uterine rupture that can happen. So because of that, we have to do a C-section. Now, what do we do to help prevent that? We do a technique called vaginal seeding or we put a– a moist sterile uhm— medical kind of towel into her vaginal area about one to two hours before birth. So before she had the C-section, we had it in there the little bit of saline solution to kind of stop up any of the bacterial flora. And then when the baby came out, it was good. I went over to the baby and I basically dabbed him everywhere — face, eyes, mouth, butt cheeks, general private area, armpits. He basically got exposed everywhere to that bacteria that he would have gotten in the vaginal canal. And so that kind of. That starts to activate that immune process and gets that immune system going. So, if you aren’t able to do a vaginal birth– and you know, I’m very holistic-minded. I did everything I possibly could to make that caption– happen. Uhm– I’d weighed out the risk and didn’t want a uterine rupture, and even if it was a small percent chance, we went that way. And this is was the other kind of thing you could do. So if you can’t do a vaginal birth, you could still get some of these immune benefits with vaginal seeding techniques.

Evan Brand: Well sound like it worked ’cause he hasn’t gotten sick and all kind of void and also he’s   so we know that he’s getting tons of different immunoglobulin and all sorts of other good things from the milk too and, your wife’s diet dialed in too so I mean, I think you can circumnavigate some of the downfalls of that pretty easily.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah on the breastfeeding side it’s really important most women don’t understand that uhm— when a child exposed to something the bacteria or whatever they’re being exposed to in their mouth –  hits the nipple; it’s a two-way valve. So then, the other side, the woman or the wife’s gonna – your mom, the baby’s mom – is gonna start making antibodies that will go out in the breast milk so baby has some kind of immune stressor that hits here and the nipple goes in, the immune system goes to work on the mom’s side and starts making antibodies that go back to the baby so there’s this wonderful two-way valve that’s there. So, when my son’s in the new environment my wife’s they’re like swapping it up trying to get her immune system exposed so she can start going to work and making antibodies for him. Uhm– if he needs him, he’s not getting sick and then when she gets a little run down we have boosted her up with a little bit of adaptogens and uhm— we have used some additional mushrooms when she’s a little bit more immunocompromised, higher dose Vitamin-C and some immune support cod liver oil to kind of get her boosted up. You gotta be careful with the child because you can’t really give the– the child too much but we give my wife some of the immune-boosting support then she can pass some of that down to the– the baby.

Evan Brand: Now I think we’d talked about this before but did you ever see that photo online? There was a woman who shared a picture of two different bags of breastmilk that she had collected from herself. One was just a normal day of breastmilk and then the other, it was like a day or two after her child got sick. She collected breastmilk and bagged it up and the– quote and quote uhm— “sick day” where the baby where the baby was sick. The mother’s milk that day was so, so dark and yellow. It was almost as if, it became super milk full of immune supporting benefits after she figured out her baby was sick.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah I mean this is why formula will never be able to compare because you’d have to have a laboratory where it’s constantly being tweaked and designed and then you have to, you have to essentially uhm— add stem cells in, and specific antibodies. I know people that have worked for, let’s just say drug companies that have told me that the internal research that the drug companies have done, uhm— comparing breast milk to a formula, don’t even compare. It cannot even come close. Yeah this is internal research so it doesn’t get out there but I talked to people on the inside that have done these type of, you know, internal research and they just say, “we can’t even come close to it”.

Evan Brand: I believe it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So if you have the ability to breastfeed, uhm— work it and do it as much as you can and hire a lactation consultant. We had some issues to start with just because I think when you have a cease action there’s some trauma that happens and that creates a stress response and then you can maybe add some pain drugs that can decrease your flow, you were able to what is really hard the first month but it’s the best gift you can give your child. So, really don’t– don’t take it for granted. It– it’s important if you know what’s coming out of stem cells and antibodies and the constant shifts to what your child needs is very important.

Evan Brand: Yup, and let’s fast forward to let’s say five-year-olds, ten-year-olds,  , you know, school-aged children, you know, that may no longer be breastfeeding uhm— I mean, I’ve had– I’ve had a couple women, breastfeeding their kids at five years old you know, like once a day, or– you know, once at night or something like that, you know, and I– I pass no judgment. Most societies gonna judge people for that but you see tribes that do it for a long, long time. But, either way, wherever you are in that spectrum, however old the kid is, we see infections all the time in five-year-olds,  , fifteen-year-olds. I had a mom who brought two five-year-old twin boys to me. They’re about to get kicked out of school because of their behavioral problems, and we tested both of the kids gut and they had tons of parasites man. The bac– bacteria level growth, they had candida, they had all of it and so, we know, we talked about this before, we did a whole show on it but, with the cluster of bacteria, causing a buildup of dopamine ‘cause it messes up in the enzyme in the gut. And all we did is we just made a herbal protocol to get rid of the infections in the gut and the kids were able to take the capsules luckily than you have to swallow pills. We’ll talk about what you can do if you can’t but, and then we got rid of the bugs and then the mom emailed me and she’s like “what did you just do to my kid?” And I was like “whoa what do you mean?”. And she was like: “Well the kids can actually sit still”. They were never able to sit still in their chair before for more than five minutes. And I was, “because we just calm the gut down which then calm the brain down – their behavioral problems disappeared. And they didn’t make your regulane or whatever pharmaceutical drug that a conventional doctor would have put them on.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: [Sighs] Totally. And when you’re dealing with kids, that can be a little tough because I see in my kids, they don’t like to chew food at that well. I’m not sure if you might notice this with your kids, they don’t really chew really well. So one of the things is we haven’t done it yet but uhm— one of the things of we need to, you know, I have chewable enzymes that we use that taste kind of good, they’re very low in sugar but they’ve really good enzymes in there that can be super helpful so we’ll give some enzymes if needed. We also give something at night my son call gripe water which basically has some herbs in there that help in digestion. It’s kind of a little ginger in there and some phenyl, which is a really good kind of a natural uhm— digestive, stimulates enzyme and acid production internally. So we do some of that and then, you know, for having any mobility issues, we’ll give them some lypozomo or some sublingual uhm—  magnesium as well to kind of help in motility, just to keep things moving because kids’ intestinal tract they don’t have their parasympathetic– parasympathetic nervous system kind of dialed in yet that’s why they uhm— can’t control uhm— motility as well. So that really kind of keeps things moving. We don’t want them getting backed up either. So enzymes are great. And then we also do some specific probiotics the first couple of years, you know, three to four years of life, the ___[29:01], is a really important ___[29:03] in probiotics uhm— kiddos need. And you not might see that in your typical adult uhm— based probiotic. There’s the lactobacillus, uhm— ___[29:14] uhm— it begins with an “r”… I have to go look it up again…

Evan Brand: Rhamnosus one…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes, that one, that one. So the Lactobacillus rhamnosus is really important with the little guys, and so is the infantus. So those are the really good ones you wanna look at and then we’ll have the good enzymes there as well and then we can use some digestive kind of liquid compound. I like gripe water. There’s a couple of other compounds that are great that really can help with the digestion especially when if your kids are not chewing food that well.

Evan Brand: Yup so the enzymes could be great but if you have infections you have to clear those. So the question may become “well, how do you do it?”. Well, it depends on the weight of the kid first of all so, you always have to go based on weight. You’re not gonna give a full strength, you know, parasite killer, for a two-hundred-pound man for a thirty or forty-pound child. So you always gotta make sure that you dose the herbs appropriately. Now, these things are really-really safe in compare to pharmaceutical drugs but you still want to be smart with it so you’ll typically do like a quarter of an adult dose or a third of an adult dose of the herbs that you use.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, kind of get the foundations dialed in. Also, when you’re changing your kid’s diapers, look at their stool. I noticed a whole bunch of blueberries in my son’s stool a month back, so we rotated things out. We started doing blackberries, and raspberries and strawberries. We kind of rotate it and if I saw some particulate that I could recognize more frequently, that was pulled out of the rotation for a week or two and then we add a back in. When we add a back in, I kind of looked, and it looked relatively clean. So, keep an eye on what you’re noticing in the stool – that could be helpful. Enzymes can be great, probiotics can be great. And then the next thing is well– “when should we go to the next step?”. I think if your child still has symptoms or distress or behavioral issues then I think looking deeper to the gut is gonna be that next step where Evan just mentioned, getting a comprehensive gut test. We like the GI math test as well that’s a great one. And then we can look and see what that next step is.

Evan Brand: Yeah some, if you got a five-year-old or a ten-year-old here, you’re probably not gonna see what their poops look like. Those kids are probably flushing the poop and they don’t want you to look at it, they’re embarrassed so you can’t check out their poop then you just have to take their word for it. If they say they have stomach pain, then you gotta investigate. A lot of kids do report that to the parents, “Mommy my tummy hurts”, you gotta get him tested. And, I found two-year-olds, three-year-olds, four-year-olds, all with giardia, crypto, and h pylori and bacterial overgrowth so, just because you’re young doesn’t mean and just because you haven’t travel about in the US does not mean that you’re free from infection because you definitely could have stuff. And we saw pinworms. We saw pinworms in our daughter’s stool.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep.

Evan Brand: We tried as many things as we could in terms of herbs to get rid of ’em. You know what the final straw was – they helped us – was the diatomaceous earth. And we only did it for about four days. And we just did a tiny amount. We mixed it in with her other liquid tincture supplements and we finally got rid of the pinworms. Those things were terrible. She was up all night, her butt was itching, you could tell.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh yeah, tell them that could be a yeast issue, it could be a worm issue, could be a parasite issue. Have your kids take a picture of their poop. I mean, I got patients emailing me pictures of their poop all the time. I am totally desensitized to it I mean, you can just imagine like what my family talks about when we’re totally desensitized about poop, you know, “how are your ‘BM’s’ today? how’s your gas doin’?” It’s all totally normal to be able to talk.

Evan Brand: I had a guy who pooped out a   worm a couple of weeks ago. We opted a dosage of the mimosa because he was starting to see small worms and I thought, hey, let’s go a little higher, we did and I don’t know how I confirmed three feet but I’m gonna believe him.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah that’s, that’s quite a number to share. So, like, for me, my son has no digestive issues right now. Am I gonna do a gut test on him right now? Probably not. But in the few years I will, or if some things come up uhm— I definitely will look at that. So I guess, you know, we kind of have to draw the line. We evolve the functional support to help enhance digestive support good bacteria, support gut lining integrity, and then we kind of have this line that we crossed where symptoms aren’t being resolved, and then we’ll have to look at that next step. So, on Evan, how did you kind of draw that line with uhm— your daughter somewhere?

Evan Brand: Yeah well said. Now is exactly it, she wasn’t sleeping well. Now thanks to the Lord she’s sleeping through the night for the first time in two years which is excellent because we finally got over her…her gut issues resolved, but, it was when she was waking up five or six times a night, she was tossing and turning. We could tell that she was uncomfortable. It wasn’t a normal cry like “I want milk”, it was more of like “I’m awake, I’m awake right now, I’m in pain and I don’t wanna be awake but I can’t go back to sleep because of the pain”. We could tell based on the sound of the cry that it wasn’t normal so that’s when we got this stool test. We did see a few bacterial infections, bacterial overgrowth, and then that’s when we did some liquid tinctures and, it was like olive leaf and a little bit of a garlic a little bit of oregano, some other liquids we did for like maybe three or four weeks if that. And probiotics at the same time and then we just cycled off of it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very good points. And if you guys have any questions that are kind of remained to this topic feel free and try them in. There’s a couple here that remained so let me go over. Spectra cell could be a good way to look at some of the micronutrients so we will go look at spectra cell for some of the zinc, and vitamin A and some of the other things. I’ll even look at inorganics as well. Spectra cell is a uhm— blood test. So you gotta be careful, you gotta figure out if your kids [are] old enough to deal with a blood draw like that. So maybe I’ll wait for like two or three for that test – maybe not when they’re so young. Uhm– Organic acid test is a little bit easier but, I mean, you gotta collect the urine so maybe it was that you could ask to be potty trained to be able to grab that initially.

Evan Brand: Yeah let me make a comment real quick…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: So if people are listening to the podcast on iTunes, they’re like: “What is Justin doing, he’s going on some crazy uh– different topic?”. Well if you’re following on– Justine’s YouTube channel, if you go on YouTube [and] type in “Just In Health” and you could subscribe to the channel there, you’ll see every time we go live like we’re doing now, you’ll be able to chime in and put questions on the YouTube video itself. So that’s where these questions are coming from.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very good point, yup! We are functional medicine on demand, totally non-rehearsed, raw, in the flash, what you see is what you get. That’s the difference between us and most people here, not very rehearsed at all so, hope you guys appreciate it. And then the last question was uhm— “Do you give your kids flu shots?”. No, I do not— Flu shots [are] relatively ineffective there’s still a good deal of ’em that have about 25 micrograms of ethyl mercury in them as well. So that’s not really good. I don’t think there’s any research with them, even tested them on little people yet like you know, one, two, three-year-olds. I think they have some of the researchers on the seven and eight-year-olds but nothing on younger kiddos, and then with the Mercuries, I definitely would not— there are other medicinal mushrooms and things like vitamin D and things like vitamin C that we can get, that actually enhance the immune system, the TH-1 immune response. Remember, when you give a vaccine, you’re just increasing the antibody— the TH-2 response. That’s only one part of the immune system. Think of the TH-1 part, that’s the special forces. That’s the navy seals, right, that’s the army rangers, that’s the— the— delta team if you will. These are the first responders. Think of the antibodies that come later, that’s the infantry that lags behind. So, my opinion personally is the TH-1 immune response is really important because if you don’t neutralize the invader, coming in off the but, that’s the TH-1, that’s gonna be a lot of the herbs that we talked about in the nutrients, uh— that’s gonna be the TH-1. So that’s really important, and the vaccine does not touch that. There’s actually some research showing that when you increase the TH-2 response really, really high, you can actually drop the TH-1 response and weaken those first-line invaders because in TH-2 and TH-1 immune work on a see-saw. So when you really jack up the TH-2, you can really drop down that TH-1. So that’s some of the immune benefits that you get when you use some of the natural compounds. You can get those TH-1 responses up.

Evan Brand: Yeah it makes perfect sense and even the Center for Disease Control came out and talked about how ineffective the flu vaccine was, and I think they said something like a 13-18% success rate which is just terrible.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly, yup! 100%. Now some people ask what type of mushrooms? I like reishi mushroom— is really good, it’s a really good product. For some of the kids, there’s a great product by the Science for Health called immuno berry which is a nice little mushroom, kind of immune-support tincture, uh– I like that as well. Cod liver— cod liver oil can also be great especially if it has some extra vitamin A in it which I like a lot. I’ve got a product called immuno-supreme which is a lot of medicinal mushrooms and monolaurin in there, may not be good for super young kids but, you know, kids, that can swallow pills— that’s a really good product, uhm— for as well. Anything else you want to have at Evan?

Evan Brand: Well, they even have like the monolaurin or the coconut extract in the powdered form where you could add a little bit to a kid’s smoothie if you needed to. And then there’s also certain types of weight protein, there’s a couple that we use uh— there’s some that come from beef, and then there’s actually a new one from designs that I’ve been using that actually comes from the serum albumin, they call it an immunoglobulin concentrate,

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Evan Brand: That one’s great. Yeah, I think they’re called the IGG— that one’s really good. So we use that a lot and you know, Justin and I been beating the drama on mushrooms for years now so we just love ’em and we personally both do mushrooms all the time.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup. And, good adaptogens are great, and again some people are asking about like, “what your might one-year-old do”. Well, number one, if your one-year-old still breastfeeding, work on the mom, work on supporting her, uhmm— some additional mushrooms. I don’t like to go too high with certain things just because, it’s not that these things aren’t safe with children or, you know, little, or young people at one or so years old. It’s just there’s not research, right. Who’s gonna sign up they’re kid, they’re one-year-old for the study on this stuff? It’s just not gonna happen, right.

Evan Brand: I know…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, you’re just kind of playing with fire. So we’re just trying to be very conservative on our recommendations. Support the mom, support her immune response so then she can pass down all the really good antibodies to the younger one. But once they’re, you know, two, three, four and they can swallow things better, then you can kind of go lower dose, you know, one-quarter to one-third maybe of the adult. I’d say maybe go to one-quarter of the adult dose. So if like the adults are able to do four or six capsules a day, you know, you start with half a capsule, twice a day with uhm— child. And if it’s a powder you can always mix it in some uhm— applesauce or if you can find a good tincture, that’s mixed with a vegetable glycerin, you can always put that in a smoothie or like a sparkling water or something.

Evan Brand: Yup, I do wanna uh— read this question and answer here from Josh. He asked, “You have any thoughts on the validity of restore or is it a scam?”. So the restore, it’s a product that— is— created by Zach Bush. Yeah, who’s a— he’s a medical doc and, it’s mainly like a fulvic acid supplement. I believe it’s coming from like some type of volcanic rock extract— something like that. But the goal of it is supposed to eradicate glyphosate from the body as well as to fix a leaky gut situation by healing the tight junctions. So we actually measure that, we can measure the tight junctions, we can measure intestinal permeability. I’ve not had many people that have used it long enough whether it’s legit or not but I have had two women that I can think of specifically over the past month who have taken that product for over a year— and— we got their IGA levels back from their GI map stool test. The IGA is the mucosal barrier—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep.

Evan Brand: And— their IGA levels were less than a hundred and the normal reference range that Justin and I use currently is 5, 10 to 2010. We like to see the IG around a thousand, meaning the mucosal barrier is really in good shape. And both of these women were less than a hundred. Now they did have infections, right? So they had parasites, they did had bacterial overgrowth so— the point may be well, did the restore take them from a really terrible leaky gut, say a 50 IGA to a 75, and it helped them heal up the gut a little bit? Or did it do nothing? Or was it that the infections were so bad that they were erasing the mucosal barrier no how— no matter how much restore those women took. I don’t know— I don’t know the answer to it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I think when we deal with like things in the third face of the GI healing— so the six faces are, first ones are moving bad food, second ones, replacing enzymes and acids, third ones repairing the gut lining and the adrenals and hormones. The repairs are important, but it’s not everything. If we haven’t cut the foods out or if we’re not digesting the foods, you know, that— those are linchpins and we have to have those dialed in first. And that may prevent, you know, imagine, like you’re getting chronically scraped all the time— right? Because you’re walking through thorn bushes all day but, you’re just tryna’ put saav on it— but you’re not getting to the root issue. Or, let’s say you’re putting saav on it and you’re not pulling the thorn out. Well, you have to— it— you need a— a program that’s addressing the root cause, also pulling the thorn out as well. And, there are other nutrients that are involved in healing the gut lining: calycin, glutamine, TGL— all the other compounds, vitamin u, other nutrients that can be really helpful ___[42:02] that as like one— you know, one tool in your two belts. Not saying don’t use it but if— we— something you wanna work into a comprehensive program, and if I were to use it that would work into the third R of my program.

Evan Brand: Yeah, and— and you make a great point too which is it— that there’s a correct order of operations, so if you just go straight to the silver bullet to magic thing that’s gonna heal up your gut— well you didn’t eradicate the infections that are causing the damage to the gut— we know, giardia, crypto…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: …h-pylori; you know, these things produce stomach acid and enzyme levels that cause rotting and putrefaction of the foods. Those undigested food molecules can also create a permeable gut barrier. So— no matter how perfect the supplement may or may not be to heal the gut, if you’ve got these bad guys, you made an awesome analogy, as always, if you— if you haven’t got rid of the bad guys, first of all, you gotta test for ’em so first get tested. Step two if there are infections fix them with the help of a practitioner. Then step three, maybe then you’re ready to move on to the healing phase but man— if you’re gonna spend 0060 bucks a month for gut supplements— but you haven’t tested in 50 bucks first, you kind of wasting your money.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep, 100%. And I see another person here wrote in, uhm— we already addressed the code remedy for one-year-old, uhm— we had another person, “elderberry okay for kids?” I mean, depending on how old if they’re two or three I think it’s safe, we just wanna use the correct dosing, based on uhm— the che— the— the person’s age the— kid’s age, I mean I would look at the product and make sure it’s the product that’s designed for uh— a child, and I would dose it according to what they need. I know with the immuno berry product we just dose that according to the dose on the back. And that one is good for younger kiddos so I like that one a lot.

Evan Brand: I have seen children specific I believe the guy of a professional line has a few specific elderberries for kids. I mean

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep.

Evan Brand: It’s— it’s direct uh— extract ratio or correct strength rather.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep, exactly and then— another person writes in about uhm— let me see here— anything else I wanna highlight, I wanna keep it on point, a lot of questions are on point. Anything there that you can see Evan that you wanna address?

Evan Brand: You know we can hit this one I mean, we did chat about gut health so let’s take this one from Josh here, he’s asking about, “Can one have intestinal bacterial overgrowth or a small intestinal fungal overgrowth and still test negative on three different breath test, a lactulose breath test”.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I would say personally; I always jump to a good comprehensive stool test first…

Evan Brand: Yep.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Because sometimes you can have sibo or sifo symptoms and have it because by a parasite or h-pylori— or something else. Sometimes there’s a despotic overgrowth and may not be necessarily coming from the intestine— maybe coming more from the colon. So if you are doing a two-hour breath test, it may not come back on the breath test. So that’s why we always tend to jump towards a comprehensive stool analysis first, and then once that’s clear we if still have symptoms then we go to a breath test later.

Evan Brand: Yeah we would still wanna get the organic urine test as well because…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That would be helpful.

Evan Brand: Yeah. Candida does get missed quite often on the stool test ’cause it’s not the best way to find it so we do look for the gases that come from the urine, and that way you can confirm whether you have a fungal overgrowth. And if you do, here’s a great news. Justin and I have done this literally a thousand plus times. And— we can get rid of this issue within 4-6 weeks as long as everything else is dialed in. So— first, you gotta get the data, otherwise, you’re wasting your time and spend your money in supplements you may or not need— may or may not need to fix these issues.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, the organics is nice ’cause that you can get a window into the bacterial stuff. The uhh— urine, and again— may not correlate all the time but you can do— you can see some markers like hippurate or benzoate or 2-Hydroxyphenylacetic these are all uhm— bacterial metabolite issues you’ll see in the urine. We can see things like the lactate in the urine, we can see things like the arabinitol in the urine which are all metabolites or fungus as well….

Evan Brand: Citric acid… Citric acid goes up too. Which is— which has been linked to the yeast. ‘Cause sometimes it’s weird. Sometimes the arabinose won’t show up high but then the citric acid or the carboxy citric acid or tartaric shows up, and it’s like weird maybe these candidas not producing arabinose but is producing this and this and this instead. Do you— do you ever see that?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep. I do see that, I mean, on the ___[46:09] test you know we’ll also see the uhm— tartaric acid that you mentioned. I think we’ll also see the oxalates come up as well. Because those can go high with the yeast overgrowth too.

Evan Brand: That’s right, yeah. So Josh just gave us a follow-up here he said that these fungal and bacterial markers were elevated on organic acids so binggo there you go.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: There you go, binggo. That’s why we like to have the organics kind of they’re in the background that gives the extranet to catch something in case you missed it.

Evan Brand: Yup, awesome. I think that was all the questions related to gut health so I would just say to— to wrap up, you know, you talked a lot about mom’s health which is really important. So many moms and parents— and this is nothing against them. They just don’t think about it, they don’t think about themselves first.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Evan Brand: They just think, “hey, something’s wrong with my kid that I happen to be breastfeeding”. The mom does think, “I need to clean up my gluten dairy. I just cleaned up my kid why is my kid still having this eczema even though he’s gluten dairy free, but yet, I’m eating gluten dairy every day for breakfast and then I breastfeed him. That’s like you gotta address the whole family.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah there’s a massive disconnect in society today that like what happens to the kid, is there isolated kind of circumstance or whatever it is that has nothin’ to do with the mom and there’s nothing to do with their diet, and nothing to do with the kid’s diet, there must be some kind of genetic thing goin’ on here and we have a direct correlation with food, direct correlation with the mom’s food especially if they’re still breastfeeding, uhm— all those things. And also just uhm— I see it a lot— I mean in that— I’m around in a lot of moms too that feed their kids lots of— sugary drinks or the drinks are sugar-free and they’ve asked for tame or Splenda in there.

Evan Brand: Oohh…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And Splenda has three molecules of chlorine— of chloride attached to it and that can, there’s research out of Duke showing that can affect gut microbiome and set them up for dysbiosis down the road. So remember, like the Splenda, sugar-free stuff can really disrupt your gut and that’s what 80-90% of your immune system is, not to mention that you shouldn’t be signaling to your kid— “sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet”, every time they drink something.

Evan Brand: Well man…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You know what the message happening…

Evan Brand: Alright, we gotta extend this podcast by one minute because it just brought up— brought up the word chlorine. I mean I can’t tell you how many kids go to swimming pools whether indoor or outdoor swimming pools, their breathing in and bathing in all that chlorine and they have tons of issues with their gut— from swallowing the chlorine. We know that even in tap water if you don’t filter out chlorine, we know that your tap water is contaminated. That could kill the good guys that were tryin’ to build up on your child’s gut as well.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, it’s not even the chlorine, it’s the chloramines that form from the chlorine. That— that’s even the bigger issue that’s even stronger. Like in my pool, we have a salt-water pool now that does have some chlorine but it’s very small. And I’m looking at putting a UV light in— so we can even lessen the chlorine, to begin with. ‘Cause if you don’t have a little bit, you start getting algae and stuff growing in the pool too, which is like, you know, it’s like— ahh! you got this double-edged sword so, I’m tryin’ to— to— to fret that out but for— having a salt water pool definitely helps and then using the— Ultraviolet if you can, if you can even make it better.

Evan Brand: I didn’t know that. You’re saying that even with salt water, you still have to use something else.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well what happens is, when you put the salt water in there, the salt water through the ionization process, chlorines form as a byproduct from uhm— the salt water process. So there are natural chlorines that are made. It’s when you have to add a whole bunch of chlorine too and then you get this chloramine byproduct which is stronger.

Evan Brand: Ah, got it, got it. We had one of the questions here from “AOAT”, and– they were asking, “What is the fastest way to get rid of a yeast overgrowth”. I would say before you even worry about getting rid of it, you need to test and figure out what’s going on because the protocol that Justin and I designed for you could be different depending on what’s goin’ on. For example, if you have parasites, that’s gonna be a big issue you have to fix. If you have bacterial infections, that’s gonna be a big issue.

Candida is usually just along for the ride; it’s just joining the party. We rarely see candida by itself. So that being said, we wanna get you tested first because if you just take all these magic supplements to kill yeast, you’re gonna be one of the thousand-plus people we’ve seen that say “Hey I took all this candida killer supplements and I still have candida, why?”.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And then what’s the root cause, like you just kinda ___[50:15] it to number one: were you on antibiotics before now you’re having a rebound yeast overgrowth? Number two, uhm— is there an issue where you’re just eating a whole bunch of refined or– or a kind of carbohydrates that are fueling it? Number three, are you exposing yourself to– roundup or various pesticide that could be creating a rebound overgrowth, like what’s the underlying issue? Yup, I mean those are connected so we wanna get to what’s the underlying issue– if we know what it is, and then we get you tested to make sure that’s the only issue then we can– we can prevent the cycle from repeating itself over and over again.

Evan Brand: Yeah and this– I mean this is the whole reason why our philosophy is tested and don’t guess, because if you don’t test, then you’re just  gonna go and buy something your whole foods the supplement guys told you, it’s called “candida buster”, or whatever and you come home and you take it and you’re like, “okay, I may be felt something, maybe not”, then you’re not really inconsistent because you don’t really know what you’re going after and then you stop taking it, and then eventually you just throw your arms up and you’re like “what do I do from here?”. Well, that’s why you gotta figure it out.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: More of your constitutions weaker and then all the– the dead– toxins and debris and the acid aldehyde byproducts that release from the fungal killing started making you sick then it’s like: “well now what do you do?” Well, probably have to work more on the overall constitution before we di– dive into the killing, right?

Evan Brand: Very true. Very great point. Now we had one question here from kate ___[51:31] to talk about chlorine and tap water, “can you recommend a good filter system?”. I’ve got the Pelican, they have really, really good reviews at the whole house system from Pelican. If you look up their reviews, their stellar, and– I just purchased new filters– and I kinda put together a custom system ’cause our city, unfortunately, does add fluoride to our water, so, I didn’t have to buy an extra fluoride filter to put on to the whole house and then we use the Berkey shower filter and then we use the Berkey for– the counter tap for– like, cooking and the drinking water.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Good. So for me, I use the ___[52:06]. I have a whole house water filtration through Aquasana. Uh— justinhealth.com/water– to see the one I have and then I use the Pelican countertop reverse osmosis for drinking and cooking. So– that one’s already been filtered twice, right. Once through the whole house, and then once through the– the reversed osmosis and then there’s op– opposed filters that add some minerals back in and then I also put a– little jar of real salt uhm— on my kitchen counter tap so if we have water we just add a dash of the extra minerals to the water, so then that water is super-super clean. Like the whole house, because uhm— one, I could still drink out of it if I want to, it’s still really clean. So if I’m upstairs if I don’t wanna go downstairs I can still you know, grab a glass and drink out of my faucet in my bedroom. Or number two, the– water that comes out of the shower hoses or– shower faucets are really good too. So my shower is still super clean, I’m not spending you know, 50 or a hundred bucks a year on each shower I had in the house.

Evan Brand: Yup, yup, well said. There was a– there was a uh– a pitcher filter that a client had sent to me the other day I can’t remember it but it was great for people that– like we’re just on the go I mean it removed so many chemicals that were almost as good as the Berkey but it was a pitcher filter. Most pitchers like the Breda, are absolutely terrible…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah

Evan Brand: …they do most of nothing.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And I would strongly recommend for you Evan uhm— to get, you know– get a good reversed osmosis counter tap. I mean the biggest problem I had with the Berkey– I still have a Berkey and I— I use it in case something were to happen we can– you put rainwater in it. It’s kinda my emergency thing in the case like you know, a hurricane… what was the one that hit South Carolina?

Evan Brand: Yeah, Florence?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, hurricane Florence comes to like and at least take rainwater to run it through it, right. So I have that as my backup, backup but there would be days where I like, we forgot to put water in the Berkey the night before, and then I was like, “oh crap”, we don’t have water the next morning, right? So I like the counter top because it’s always got a gallon and a half, and it’s always at a gallon and a half so if I use a half gallon, it starts filling up– so we don’t have to worry about that aspect of it.

Evan Brand: True. Yeah, I’ve got the uh– I’ve got the– quite a few filters in it, it goes pretty darn fast.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Do you have the– do have the countertop one?

Evan Brand: I do, yeah but when you’ve got four filters in there that ___[54:11] filters very fast.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So if you have a countertop, you don’t even– you don’t even need the Berkey then.

Evan Brand: No, no, no, I don’t know– I’m sorry. I mean, I have the Berkey on my countertop. I do not have a…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh.

Evan Brand: …I do not have a countertop filter though but I do have the Aquatru and that’s the one that is not connected to your countertop, but it is a countertop system you– up there and then that is ___[54:32], and that only takes maybe 30 seconds to do like, 2 gallons.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, ’cause mine, like the whole system underneath the sink and then it’s just the spout on top.

Evan Brand: Okay, yeah, yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So I just turn the knob and then it comes up but it– they’re called countertop but it’s really under the kitchen sink…

Evan Brand: Yeah

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …and then you have the spout on top.

Evan Brand: Here’s the one. I’m not affiliated with these people, I probably should be an affiliate but I’m not currently, but it– the company is called Clearly Filtered. You ought to check it out for yourself, Justin, to it. It’s clearly– clearlyfiltered.com and this is the one that removes 99.9% of lead, fluoride, pesticides, herbicides etc. and it’s all done with the pitcher. It’s just one of those little old generic looking pitchers ___[55:12]the water in and you pour it. So if you’re like in the pinch and you only have 60$ to spend, that’s probably the one I’d get.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool. Yeah and just remember anyone that– that could recommend a product, its because we’ve actually used the product and liked it, and think it’s great. So we only recommend things, so, yup, well– we make it a reimbursement or a commission offer but we only choose ones that we like and use ourself with our family that’s a– there’s a lot of options that our there and we just choose what’s best. And you guys get the– the advantage of uhm— getting our recommendations.

Evan Brand: Well it’s this time when we give recommendations too, we’re giving links to people that give you somewhat of a discount which is always good.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup, that’s the thing. We can work up with these companies and say, “hey…”, you know, “…we like this, we’re gonna recommend it to our patients or our clients” and then they allow us to offer a discount as well which is great.

Evan Brand: Yup I’ve got nothing else to say in this topic, do you, before we wrap up?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think we hit it. I think just everyone listening, if you guys appreciate it, we love the thumbs up, we love the share, sharing is caring, uhm— give us some. Hi– hit the– you guys hit the subscribe button but also hit the bell right in the middle. The bells which gonna allow you to get these notifications in the future so you guys can be a part of this conversations.

Evan Brand: Yup, well if you wanna reach out to schedule a consult with either one of us you could reach Justin at his site, its justinhealth.com. You could schedule a consult there with him or his other doc on staff, and– for me, you could reach out my site, evanbrand.com. And we look forward to helping you. Stay tuned and we’ll talk with you again next week.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And for your comments below I’ll try to answer more of them during my free times so, put your comments below, look forward to catchin’ up with ‘ya and chat with you later.

Evan Brand: Take care, bye bye.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Evan, take care. Bye, ya’ll.


References:

A recent study about Optimal Amount of Sleep for Cardiovascular Health

Night Shift Nurses Sleep Study

The WHI Estrogen/progestin and HERS II Study

“Lights Out” by TS Wiley

https://www.evanbrand.com/

https://justinhealth.com/

Organic Grass Fed Meat


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