Winter Skin Care Tips: Get Rid of Dry Skin | Podcast #320

Winter can wreak havoc on your skin — making it dry, itchy, and irritated. And it can feel like there’s no escape: Cold, blustery conditions outside can leave your skin feeling raw, while indoor heat zaps moisture from the air and from your skin.

In this podcast, Dr. J and Dr. Evan are talking about skin problems that you might encounter during this season. There are many simple ways to combat the causes of dry winter skin and help keep your skin feeling moist and supple all season long, including some easy changes to your everyday routine. Dr. Justin Marchegiani

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

In this episode, we cover:

0:23    Skin Issues

4:43    Detox Pathways

13:24  Infections

22:00  Humidity Issues

24:07  Proper Digestion

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Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We are live. It’s Dr. J here in the house with Evan Brand. Evan, hope you had a great new year great holiday season so far. Today we’re going to be diving into skin issues dealing with skin issues coming the wintertime, all the different things that may happen due to dryness, cold. Lots of sweets from the holidays in the New Year’s all that stuff. Let’s dive in man. How you doing? 

Evan Brand: Doing well. Happy New Year to you. Happy New Year to everybody. This is the first podcast of 2021 Hooray, we need to like clap for a minute. Yeah, exciting. 2021 All right. So skin issues. While I was telling you about my daughter, Jenna, my little 1- 19 month old, she was having some really dry skin on the back of her arms and legs. And so we’ve done a couple of things to help her which is pretty cool. So I’ll share that right off the bat and then we’ll dive into some more root cause stuff. So we really upped up her fish oil we were giving her about it was two squirts of a liquid and it was a professional version so I don’t remember the milligrams but we just doubled their dose so we just kind of doubled her doubled the normal dose of omegas and that seems to help especially if we think what’s happening is like a keratosis Polaris, which is a common situation. And then secondly, we did a babo botanicals brand and it was called a colloidal oatmeal lotion and it was fragrance free. And it’s mainly just like shea butter. We tried coconut oil topically that’s always kind of my first go to for skin issues, but it didn’t touch it. It didn’t help it at all. But when we got this Colloidal Oatmeal Babo Botanical product, it was a game changer. And no This podcast is not sponsored by them. But hey, if you want to sponsor us reach out to great product above to share it with more people.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool. Very cool. So we have the keratosis Polaris, which is where the [inaudible] and kind of just accumulates in the pores and, and you can get this bumpy chicken skin feeling usually like on the back of the arms on the button stuff, right? Is that what you’re referring to? 

Evan Brand: Yeah, that’s right. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, you’re saying that the omega threes really helped that omega threes really make a difference and help improve the extra keratin deposits in the pores?

Evan Brand: Yeah, my wife had it too real bad when we first started dating and we’ve got around like, two to four grams a day of omegas and her back her arms feel perfectly smooth now. I mean, of course we got her gut better, we got her diet better, but I honestly think the biggest factor the biggest variable was the omegas.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, the extra omega threes can make a big difference. Also good zinc, extra zinc too can also help. That’s really good to know. So we also talk about skin diet plays a big role. So we have to kind of rule out things like gluten extra refined sugar can feed yeast and bacteria and these things can produce, you know various mycotoxins or endotoxins that can put stress on the liver in the body and you may see the skin reacting as a means to that you may see skin issues and breakouts as a means of that. Also, large amounts of sugar can cause insulin which can cause insulin surges, which can cause extra sebum and sebum, can cause can feed bacteria on the skin which can create more acne and more skin inflammation. Also, things like gluten can potentially drive autoimmune reactions like eczema, psoriasis, potentially even rosacea issues. So you got to look at dairy you got to look at gluten, you got to look at refined sugar that could be driving a lot of that insulin that could be feeding a lot of the microbe was the fungal the yeast, the bacterial overgrowth, which can obviously affect the skin too.

Evan Brand: Yeah, yeah. So what about eggs? I think that’s important to mention, too. I personally feel that pulling out eggs is a good strategy for people if they’re unsure of what’s happening with their diet and reactions, that eggs may be a culprit. And then also, conventional dairy. I know that was a big culprit for me. I would like to cheat on it a little bit and do like some grass fed cheese every once in a while but then even that sometimes I’ll notice a skin reaction to it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, so eggs could definitely be a role. So for unknown I’d probably want to go autoimmune out of the gates, no grains, legumes, dairy, nuts, seeds, nightshades or eggs and keep the sugar down just so we’re not overfeeding bacteria and yeast which could be causing skin issues like I mentioned earlier. So that kind of be a first step. I always want to look at omega threes, right? Because that can help to KP the keratosis Polaris that can also just help inflammation. Your skin needs really good healthy fats. So if you’re a female and a lot of your skin issues tend to be more based around your cycle. I tend to like fats like borage or black currant seed oil, which are GLA omega six fats, a good omega six, but it can these kind of omega six like GLA fats can really help decrease a lot of the sebum and a lot of the stuff that may clog the pores of the skin. So I do like a lot of the black currant seed oil can be very, very helpful for women’s skin issues. That’s excellent out of the gates. Usually women tend to help it more but if you’re a guy and you’d have more of the KP or the bumps, that’s where really up in the omega threes can make a big, big difference.

Evan Brand: Yeah, awesome. How about detox pathways? Maybe we should mention that I think just supporting the liver I’ve seen personally, especially with kids, when we see skin issues will come in with some liver support. If it’s a kid who can’t take pills, we’ll give them some kind of a liquid liver support tincture and I’ve noticed a big difference especially under the eyes, you know, if we’re talking scan, we’re not just talking like bumps on the arms. We’re not just talking acne, we’re talking possibly like dark circles under the eyes. That’s often at least in Chinese medicine, they say dark circles under the eyes, his liver, and I’ve actually noticed that correlate quite well. When we bring up liver support dark circles under the eyes go away. So if you’re a woman, every morning, you’re doing your makeup. And here you are doing your powder foundation or whatever the heck you’re putting on under your eyes. You might not have to do that if you just support your liver. It’s funny how women, they can just cover stuff up with makeup, but man, we’re not going to cover up it. So we’re going to see the dark circles, we need to treat it root cause we’re not just going to, you know, put some powder on it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, yeah. And so with the we call allergic shiners, so what you see is a lot of lymphatic pooling, so you have a lot of lymph in the face area. And a lot of times what you see is the pooling of the lymph right under the eyes. And a lot of times that’s going to be food allergies, just go on Google type in allergic shiners, okay. And that’s a lot of times because of it’s not like an aging thing. It’s a lot of lymphatic stress because of certain foods. So like I mentioned, cut a lot of those big foods out, see how much that helps decrease the lymphatic pool. And you can also do things to support the lip, right? You can do rebounding, you can do whole body vibration, you can drink ginger, or burdock tea or essiac tea, things that naturally bright clover tea, red roots, etc. Things are naturally support the limp that can be helpful. But if you’re doing that, and you’re still eating foods that are inflammatory, that may still kind of counteract it. So ideally, you know, support the limp and cut out some of those commonly offending foods that may really help decrease that pooling underneath the eyes.

Evan Brand: That’s smart. I didn’t know the the food connection there with the allergies. So what about the darkness? Do you think that’s tied into any kind of toxicity? Or do you think just with the lymph in general, it’s just going to appear dark just because it’s stagnant no matter what.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I mean, a lot of that just has to do with the length. I mean, we’ll pull up a couple pictures here in a minute. But anytime you really increase an immune response, you’re going to just get more lymphatic pooling, and you’re going to see it underneath kids eyes, or Yeah, it’s interesting on kids, and you also see it in, in adults too. But you know, it’s people put they go to the spa, you put a cucumber over it. Why? Because the cucumber telling tends to help disperse a lot of that lymphatic fluid. That’s the reason why. And let me pull up a Google image here so you guys can see.

Evan Brand: And sometimes it’s dark. And then sometimes it’s bags too. Oh, yeah. Yes. You look at the one to the left, though with the little girl. That one. No, go to the second one there. That’s what I’m used to seeing with people. Yeah, just that kind of darkness.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I mean, it just has to do with the increased blood flow and lymphatic pooling. It’s really what it is. Wow. And just cutting that out can make a big, big, big, big difference.

Evan Brand: Yep. I wonder if there’s, there’s got to be a histamine connection to this too. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I mean, anytime you have a food allergy response, part of a allergenic response is going to be histamine at so-

Evan Brand: Oh go back up, go back up on the top there on that screen. The very top of there, it said, Oh, this is interesting. So it was talking about indoor allergens. So mold could be a trigger of the allergic shiners, too. I never even thought about that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I mean, anytime you breathe stuff into that sinus cavity, right? Whether it’s outdoor allergens, like dander or cedar or things like that, grass pollens, right of course, those can be a big role. But you know, you can see right here what causes it, right. So what happens is the the tissues and the blood vessels in the nose become swollen and a lot of excess fluid happens. People don’t understand when you have a histamine reaction. And a lot of times that causes things to vasal dilate. So these blood vessels get swollen, so you get a lot more blood, you get a lot more lymphatic flow, you get a lot more immune reaction. And that’s why all that stuff sends a pool right there because all that the sinus cavity kind of coming together right in this T zone here.

Evan Brand: There you go. Look at that pollution and perfume and other irritants. So women if there’s any left listening to the podcast, it’s still wear perfume. Stop doing that. That’s so bad. Do essential oils if you want to smell.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. If you want a nice scent do a good really good essential oil, do a lavender do a.. see trying to think of a bunch of other feminine herbs or feminine essential oils if you’re a guy do rosewood or do cedar keep it really simple. You know there’s a couple of really good blends that are out there that I like Frankincense is a pretty good neutral one. You know, I just tend to rely on my nice essential oil based deodorant tends to be really clean and, and works well. But yeah, so you want to not put in, rub toxins on your skin, toxins on the fragrances, all of that can affect bags under the eyes. All of that can affect your skin too, because it’s going to just create more toxicity, more stress on your liver in your body. Now getting back to the hormone stress, if we have more, let’s say detoxification problems that could create issues because if we have estrogen dominance, right, well we have high levels of androgens as a female, right high levels of estrogen estrogen dominance, and it can be low estrogen, but it’s just higher relatively speaking than progesterone, right? That ratio is off that 20 to 25 to one progesterone, estrogen often maybe it’s 10 to one or 15 to one That ratio starts to skew that could put more stress on the liver. And if you have estrogen issues that can be a problem. A lot of women when they consume too much refined carbohydrates and inflammatory foods, they tend to convert more of their estrogens to androgens, testosterone, right stauss rounds and androgen, it’s in the androgen umbrella, right. And those can cause like I mentioned a lot more sebum and more skin issues and more acne that way, and then having prostaglandin imbalances prostaglandin two, which is more inflammatory. Having them one in three supported with a lot of those good fats, like I mentioned, are going to be helpful. So you’re going to really help a lot of the inflammatory pathways with good fish oils, you’re also going to help prostaglandin one and three, which are going to help with the skin with the black currant seed and the borage oil. So those can be very helpful too.

Evan Brand: Good Good call. Also, when we’re coming in with detox support, you mentioned estrogen we’re going to come in with like some phase two detoxification support anyway, so we may come in with something to help with glucuronidation, maybe some calcium D glucose rates, so you wouldn’t think of it like your average person, maybe even a naturopath or a functional Doc’s probably not even going to think calcium D glue, great for skin issues. But if you think that the mechanism of helping with estrogen dominance, it may be a game changer. And then let’s go into the infections a bit. I–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Also calcium lucre could help with some mold too, because it was any mold exposure that could also help by enough to mold too.

Evan Brand: Totally, yeah, binders plus a little calcium D glue. Great. I think you’re on your way. Let’s Let’s hit on infections. I’m surprised you and I haven’t brought this up here we are this far. And we haven’t thought about infections. I mean, that was a big one for me. I think my face was already better. But I was still suffering quite a bit when you and I first became friends my skin was still not very good because of all my gut infection history.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think you were also still consuming some higher quality dairy that may have been a problem. So some people that are doing a lot of cheese or like milk even if it’s raw. Right and good quality, you may still have a problem with that even if it’s really good clean dairy. Usually butter or ghee tends to be okay because there’s less casein less lactose in there almost none. But if you’re doing other stuff, it could be a problem. Was that an issue? Evan? Do you remember the dairy being a problem? 

Evan Brand: Man, you remember Central Market and all their amazing cheeses I would do some of those grass fed organic cheeses. It wasn’t often though I’ll be honest, it would maybe be like a chunk of cheese every few days or so. But I think even that was too much for me. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and you know, I tell you I can do well with butter or ghee, but I do not do well with milk or cheese as well. What happened is gassy, tend to get loose stools and then skin issues will tend to manifest shortly after for sure. So even high quality dairy not that good. Now the fat based dairy, right? Butter and ghee tends to be different because it’s primarily 99% fat. There’s very little casein, very little lactose, which is the sugar in dairy. And so of course, gese even cleaner than butter because there’s virtually zero casein versus virtually zero. lactose in there. So I tend to be a lot better.

Evan Brand: I mean, it’s curious. How do you do with whey protein? Are you okay with it?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I do. Okay, with wakers weighs 99% casein and lactose free? Mm hmm. Yeah. tends to be a lot better. Yeah, I do okay with it. My favorite is gonna be collagen, you know, high quality grass fed collagen peptides. So I do my true collagen blend, which works great. Because there’s really it’s it’s in a peptide form. So there’s no other larger proteins in there. It’s really clean and well broken down. So that tends to do my powder standpoint does really well.

Evan Brand: Awesome. All right. Well, let’s just talk a couple minutes about infections. I think this is an important part to consider if you have skin issues, I’ve worked with countless small children and teenagers and we always are going to look at the potential for infections. There’s nothing in particular, I’m not going to say hey, it’s got to be blasto. Or it’s got to be this or that. I would just say in general, any type of dysbiosis bacterial overgrowth SIBO Candida H. pylori, the whole party that usually happens together is going to be a potential. And I think the one of the big mechanisms here is just to reduce stomach acid by the H. pylori. So I think enzymes to fix the skin are also another important strategy we’re going to implement.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Anytime we have indigestion and our protein and our fat and carbohydrate molecules of the food that we’re eating are larger and are broken down. You’re going to have intolerances, foods not going to be broken down all the way. And those large globules, proteins, fats, etc, can get into the bloodstream create more immune reaction, also, there’s going to be a fermentation that happens when those food molecules are not broken down all the way and that can create bacterial overgrowth. And we know hydrochloric acid does have a way of being disinfected in a way it really decreases. bacteria and yeast flow to the intestines. And if we have low levels of acid, it’s kind of like missing the natural disinfectant on your table. Right? That you know that can help clean things up in your body so that that’s definitely a real thing there. And the other component i would say is being because we were kind of talking about the holidays and Christmas is it can get very dry in the wintertime and a lot of places in this country. And so having a really clean moisturizer can be helpful. Now it depends So we’re just talking about, you know, person with dry skin, we may just choose a really, really good clean shea butter, or coconut oil or just a really clean, moisturizing product from a high quality company. And you can use skin deep cosmetic database Environmental Working Group database to look at healthy skin products that have really good ingredients in there. I like to use the Marie Veronique products. I like their lipid barrier complex and their barrier restore serum. They work amazing. I use that on my skin. And I had one child that had eczema, he’s kind of gotten over it, he’s done really well. We’ve kind of cleaned out the his diet and his mom’s diet too. So things like salicylates could be a potential problem outside of just your autoimmune foods. And then we use a really clean, hypoallergenic moisturizer called Vannapply. Again, it’s not anything like nutritious for the skin. But sometimes when the skin’s inflamed, immunologically, from an autoimmune skin issue, sometimes the skin just needs moisture and not things that could potentially stimulate the immune system. So sometimes a clean thing like that can be very helpful. So that applies very good. There’s another product called La Roche-Posay, I’ll pull it up, it’s a French brand of a moisturizer. And that works very good, as well as providing just really good moisture. And then sometimes we may have to change the environment, sometimes it gets very, very dry, you know, 20, to 20%. And humidity, we may have to add a humidifier into the kid’s room or into the adults room to get a little bit more humidity in the room. The big X Factor is don’t just leave it on non stop, because you can actually create mold it with a humidifier if it’s unchecked, unchecked Uncharted. So you have to make sure that if you’re adding humidity to the room, it’s for a season, it’s for a reason it’s for a short period of time. And you may want to have a humidity detector in the room just to make sure you don’t get above you know, 50% where mold could grow.

Evan Brand: Yeah, you know what I was thinking I’ve never seen it, maybe it exists, it’d be cool to have a humidifier that actually has an hygro hygrometer built in. So like you could set your for you know, 40% and then you’re pumping humidity in and then it hits 40 and shuts off. That’d be super cool.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I 100% agree. Yep.

Evan Brand: So I think the x layer would be good too for just to implement this as a tangent, not related to skin. But the xylitol spray for the sinuses are is awesome too, because that can help moisturize it. And the next layer is kind of a good, natural antimicrobial, if you will, it can help a little bit with the sinus cavity. But yeah, back to the skin. So how we’re going to investigate this was peoples, we’re going to start with diet, we’re going to come in and say, probably remove the eggs, definitely get off the dairy, get off the gluten. And then we’re going to come in and do stool testing, we’re going to do urine organic acids. So we can look at all the different bacteria that may not show up. You see, sometimes what happens I had to happen last week, we had a guy who, on the organic acids, he looked pretty good. There wasn’t any kind of bacterial overgrowth evidence, but when we got to his stool test, he had Prevotella and klebsiella, and all sorts of bacteria off the chart. And so if someone’s on an extreme budget, maybe one test would be sufficient. But in most cases, we’re going to try to get the full picture because it’s hard to make a puzzle complete if you don’t have all the pieces. And so that’s really why we’re gonna want to look at multiple things. And then as you mentioned environment, we’re going to factor that into, and then potentially improving the indoor air quality. So what if you are having some sort of an allergic reaction to your environment, whether it’s mold or dander, pollen, or whatever, something like a really good charcoal filled air filter, it’s going to be a game changer, possibly putting charcoal in your body, you know, supplementing with binders, and then addressing any infections we see supporting the liver bumping up omegas. I think stress has a factor. We talked about hormones, we talked about the estrogen we talked about glucuronidation. I think those are really the main variables. Do you think we’re missing anything else?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: No, I think we hit it pretty well. My only other component is if you have eczema or psoriasis, and your skin’s overly dry and you’re trying to get the dryness down while you’re fixing the root issue. I mentioned the vanapply vanicream product being good. And the other one was the La Roche-Posay, and it’s the lipikar balm is a nice one. It’s just a lot of moisture, which can decrease a lot of the dryness and then when the dryness is decreased, that decreases the itching and when the aging is decreased, that can help decrease a lot of the inflammation. But you have to make sure a lot of people when the eczema psoriasis kind of Facebook groups because I follow a lot of them just to read what they’re doing. They want a magic solution. They want something to rub on their skin and have it all go away. But that’s never how it is. So you typically have to get to the underlying issue with foods and guts stuff too. So make sure if you do something that’s a lotion that’s topical, make sure you’re not ignoring the internal stuff.

Evan Brand: Well that one sounds so fancy. It’s got to be good just based on the way you pronounce the name of it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I know like a nice little long French name there with the Amazon links in the description so you guys can access it. And then you mentioned the other one that had the oatmeal in there. That was really clean. What was the product?

Evan Brand: Yeah, I’ll give it the link to it it’s like a there’s like a kid’s, like fragrance free version. It’s like a colloidal oatmeal product.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It began with a B right?

Evan Brand: Yeah Babo. Yeah let me look I’ve got it here. I was like colloidal oatmeal lotion and this stuff is awesome I tell him my wife’s like honey this look at look at her skin and I was feeling these areas on our little girl’s skin like man it’s it’s crazy and yeah here it is nine bucks can’t beat it. So it’s called Babo Sensitive Hydra lotion, Chamomile Calendula. And then like I said, it’s got the colloidal oatmeal, I’ll put you the link in the I’ll put it in your chat here if you want to look at it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And is there any worries at all with that due to gluten sensitivity in the oats?

Evan Brand: I don’t think so. We haven’t seen any type of issue. I know there’s a possibility. You’ve got that Avena Sativa Kernel Flour. So it does have the oat flour in there. I mean, if I thought that was some autoimmune possibility, we may stay away with it. But it’s a pretty rare situation. I’ve only seen a few people where we thought that they were going to be sensitive enough to it, you know that we should pull it out or find something without oats I’m not doing like oatmeal bass or anything like that, you know, this is just like the the spot of maybe a quarter at most on the areas and that’s like maybe once a day, if that issues- 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -any kind of here and there to kind of knock it down. It’s not like a staple. 

Evan Brand: No, no, no, we’re not lathering her in it or anything. It’s just like a spa treat is is all we’re using it for. I know some people get crazy with lotions or lathering the whole thing. Now I think I’d probably stay away in that case, but for spa treats, probably. Okay,

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s smart. Excellent. I think we hit a lot of good skin stuff. Today we talked about some of the hormone stuff with female hormones. We talked about some of the androgen component and how that can tie into insulin. Don’t forget guys, high levels of insulin can drive excess estrogens in guys. And that can cause other issues too, and put stress on the liver. We talked about some mold stuff. We talked about allergen issues, food allergies and stuff and some of the eye stuff. We talked about the humidity issues in the winter, where it gets drier, maybe get a humidifier really monitor the percent humidity if you can get one that has engaged that test the environment and let’s say it doesn’t go above 40% or 35%. That’s better, because that way you kind of have a limiter on there. It doesn’t go over the top. We at one point had the humidifier on too much. This was years ago, and we noticed a little bit of mold in the in the carpet nearby. And we never made that mistake again. So if you use a humidifier, like put a timer on it, like an hour or two, boom, have it go off. Don’t leave it on all the time. Be smart about it.

Evan Brand: Yeah, that’s interesting. When you think about a humidifier, right tip tip, typically, people are going to just sit it on like a wood, night nightstand or something and then that wood is probably just absorbing all that moisture. It sounds like a recipe for disaster if you overuse it for sure.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. So you may be like if you can, if your kid has some humidity issues, skin issues, maybe put it on for an hour or two at night, put a timer on it done. Yeah, and that way, it’s not going to go the whole night. But we’ll provide a little bit of relief and and help the mucous membranes that may be a little bit overly dry.

Evan Brand: And then also, you know, don’t overbake don’t over with your soaps or shampoos or conditioners make sure everything’s clean there. Don’t over soap yourself. I mean, you’re not you don’t need to lather your whole body and soap. I think that’s an easy one. Regarding hand soaps, I mean, I know a lot of the conventional ones are gonna dry out hands and skin. So we got to mention that also water filters are key. That’s why you and I both have whole house water filters, because the chlorine and the trihalomethanes and all the irritants in the tap water can irritate your skin in the shower.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s a big one. Yeah. So if you have a lot of chlorine and a lot of chemicals in the water that can be very irritating on your skin. So we really want to make sure that that is addressed with a high quality filter. And that will take stress off your skin a ton really well.

Evan Brand: I don’t travel with it. I even bring like the Berkey or a comparable shower filter. Like when we went to Florida last winter, I brought a portable shower filter with us man, it was a game changer because, you know, we wanted to fill up the bathtub for the kids because the chlorine was so strong. So luckily, we just filled the tub with the showerhead filter. And it was awesome. So we didn’t take the kids and they weren’t just breathing in chlorine.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s good. That’s really good. And the only other thing I would just say beyond that is just making sure you’re digesting your fats and proteins well. So people think oh, I’m gonna just drink a whole bunch of water that’ll get moisture to my skin, it’s like well, you need a good fat carrier to bring that hydration to the skin. A lot of times the skin and the you know, these are that layer there’s a hydrophobic layer in the skin so it does not like water. So you need fat to kind of bring that moisture to that skin. So if you don’t have enough fat you will get very dry skin and dry skin can get more irritated, you tend to scratch that dry skin more and then that scratching creates inflammation and that inflammation just it’s a kind of a self defeating cycle. So you really want to make sure you have good healthy fats in there and at least half those fats should be saturated fats coconut oil, it should be high quality grass fed animal products. It should be pork, pork fat lard and if you want to do any plant fats Keep it to high quality olive oil, avocado oil, maybe some palm, obviously coconut is going to be a great fact that it’s saturated and it’s plant. So those are a couple of good things to do just to make sure you have good fats. And of course, if you don’t have good digestion, you know, at least get into enzymes and some HCl In the meantime, while you work on fixing your stress or fixing your gut In the meantime, for better absorption and digestion.

Evan Brand: You know, the way I look at it, it’s rarely going to be just a skin issue, there’s going to be possibly bloating, gas, burping, some type of food sensitivities, food reactions, right skin issues are rarely going to occur in isolation. So I think of it as a clue, right? You and I talk about clues in functional medicine, the skin is really just a clue. And then we think Oh, interesting what’s going on under the hood. So that’s where we come in, and do the testing. And if you need help clinically, please reach out. We would love to help we work with people worldwide, via phone, FaceTime, Skype, etc. We’re very blessed to be able to provide lab testing to people across the globe, and to provide solutions to healthcare that other practitioners and doctors have failed before. So if you need to reach out clinically, you can reach Dr. J at JustinHealth.com. You can reach me Evan Brand at EvanBrand.com and we look forward to 2021 together so let’s have some fun. Give us some comments and questions if you’re on watching listening on Dr. J’s YouTube channel. Put some potential topic ideas in there. We’re always open to new topics. We talk about stuff we think’s important, but if you have some issues or concerns, you know, we’re happy to do kind of like some q&a stuff too. So please give us some feedback.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. If you guys want to reach out and dive in deeper it could be a good issue could be a hormone issue. EvanBrand.com for Evan, JustinHealth.com for myself, we are here to help worldwide. Thank you guys, and I hope you guys are having a great start to 2021 and we’ll be here you guys take care. Bye now.

Evan Brand: Take care.


References:

https://www.evanbrand.com/

https://justinhealth.com/

Audio Podcast:

https://justinhealth.libsyn.com/skin-care-tips-to-improve-dry-skin-podcast-320

Recommended Products:

GPL Mycotox
Omega Supreme
La Roche-Posay Lipikar Cream
Mother Of All Cream
Babo Botanicals Sensitive Skin Hydra Therapy Lotion
Air Doctor Air Purifier
Whole House Dehumidifier
Water Filtration Device
Whole House Water Filter
Clearly Filtered
Pelican Water
Organic Grass Fed Meat

 

The Essential Oil Hormone Solution | Podcast #220

There are a lot of great practitioners out there who will help navigate that journey for you, but you’re making the best decisions and there is ownership of you. You are the “CEO” of your health.

In today’s podcast, be amazed as Dr. J interviews his lovely guest, Dr. Mariza Snyder, a functional practitioner and a renowned author of 7 books, the most recent being about one of her absolute favorite subjects – essential oils! Listen and learn about the importance of self-awareness, self-care, and other important recommendations for one to start implementing. Stay tuned for more and don’t forget to share!

Dr. Mariza Snyder

Dr. Mariza Snyder

In this episode, we cover:

04:53    The Luteal Phase

07:14    Estrogen-Dominance

10:29    Adrenals

13:26    Self-Healing Awareness

14:41    Plant-Based Medicine

18:13    Nutritional Compounds

24:11    Gut

25:49    Essential Oil-Wise to Support Luteal Phase

27:27    Perfume Alternatives

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Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey there, it’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani. Welcome back to the podcast. We have Dr. Mariza Snyder on the show today. Dr. Snyder is a hormone expert and essential oil expert which is great because essential oils can be really helpful and they can really help with the stress response. So we’re gonna dive in to the hormones, we’re gonna dive in to some things that you can do right now to help kinda push your hormones back in the balance. Dr. Mariza, welcome to the podcast, how you doin’?

Dr. Mariza Snyder: Thank you so much for having me. I am great. So happy to be here.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent. Very cool. So, I’m just curious, I was talking to you kinda pre to show. When I was uh, in doctorate school, you are actually right on the way out just a co- couple of quarters before me, so I actually remember you, we were kinda reminisce in a bit. And I wanted to- to- kinda, how did you make your exit on the doctorate chiropractic side into the functional medicine hormone side? What was that journey like for you?

Dr. Mariza Snyder: Absolutely. Well, there even reason why I pivoted the way that I did. So, 4, 15 years when I was little girl, 7 years old, I uhm- I basically had some pretty crazy head traumas, neck traumas, and that led to chronic migraine pain. And I was told, I can’t tell you how many times I was told I was gonna live with this pain, and I believed it for so long.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: Well, fast forward, I, you know, growing up, I struggled, I missed- I missed slumber parties, I miss school, I missed all the fun things. I remembered as a kid, just thinking, “Man, I missed out so much on life” because I was in pain all the time like, these migraines would light me up for days on end. Just in a dark room with a cold cloth over my head, just praying to go to sleep. So, 24, I- I am a biochemist at elaborate floors of more national laboratory.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, wow, yeah.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: And uhm- there was uh- a- a woman there who was- who- was like, “listen, we…”, uh “…I have a doctor who could probably get you out. And uhm, they get you from your- get well from your migraine”. I’ll be honest with you, at that point, it been 15 years, and I did not believe any of it. I was like, “I don’t know. This is I’m- this is my lot in life, missed thing, I’m- I’m stuck with this. I got my drive this- I’m gonna beat this sucker every single day or every other day. I’m good”. You know, “I’m gonna go and become medical doctor, I’m gonna go prescribe meds, just like I’m taking right now” [chuckles].

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: It- it’s just- it made no sense whatsoever, but when you don’t know that there’s a different paradigm, you just kinda follow along in suit. Uhm, because the practitioner was uhm- on the way home, I went and so- sought out care, and it was interesting, it was more of a functional practice of- that uh- and I didn’t realized what a functional practice was. I didn’t even know anything like this existed. I did have chiropractic growi- growing up and, I- unfortunately they weren’t able to clear out those migraines, but this practice had. Acupuncture, upper cervical, nutrition-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -the whole gamut of things, and after 90 days, after care, I was migraine free, and it blow my mind. So, that opened up the idea of- of this idea of healing that I’d never even thought of before. Literally switched past like that [snaps finger].This is over a summer. I was heading out to- to medical school, switched past over to-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -chiropractic school, this was the thing. Uhm, and, throughout that process, I was still educating and learning and thinking myself like how- how does the body have the ability to heal. And nutrition became a really big part of my life. So once I got into practice, most of women I was treating uhm- we’re dealing with hormone issues, I was also dealing with hormone issues, ’cause- ’cause why not have another health issue at the-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: after- after this other one.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: And I realized that although, uhm, chiropractic could be supportive to some of the things that it was really nutrition and lifestyle and really getting the core root of what was going on with them that was gonna move the needle. So, that became a big part of the practice.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s cool. I remember- if I remember correctly, you were an upper cervical chiro expert, right?

Dr. Mariza Snyder: I was because of the migraines. Yeah?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And then I’m just curious, how far, like, if we just kinda quantify as a percentage, how far did the upper cervical get you versus the other half where you were incorporating more natural and- and nutritional and supplemental techniques?

Dr. Mariza Snyder: Absolutely. Well- if, you know, it was definitely case by case. Some people like myself-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -had [crosstalk]. And uhm- and it was uh-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: [Clears throat]

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -things were wrong. There was  misalignments, there were problems, up at c122. So, but then there were other instances where a lot of of women that I was treating had migraine pain because of the-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hormones?

Dr. Mariza Snyder: Yes. Hormones. Luteal phase-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Inflammation…

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -just drop of progesterone-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -and estrogen, and that was more of a lifestyle, nutritional, supplementation aspects. So, I would say the pain on a person, it they was hormone-driven, uhm, maybe 25%, uh 20% chiropractic, but really, I wasn’t making the changes until we stepped in to the nutrition and supplements and lifestyle.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, got it. So, you’re kind of- it- the more on the physical stressor sides, the chiropractic so to help more of the alignment and- and the- the nervous system communication on the hormone side, we gotta make changes above and beyond. That totally makes sense. Now, you kinda went to an area that I love. You talked about the luteal phase. Can we just kinda- walk the average listener through what a typical cycle looks like. Follicular, lutial, and- and can you describe that physiology 101 for the listeners?

Dr. Mariza Snyder: Sure thing. So, if you’re still having a menstrual cycle, right? Which happens between like, I don’t know, ages 11 to 13 or so, all the way until where, well, until menopause. And menopause is defined as the disease of a menstrual cycle for about a year.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: It’s usually when- unusually the lle- the- the- the roller coaster where we’re really feeling it, is in perimenopause, right? That’s when things really began to change. Well, basically- in the follicular phase, we’ve got the increase of estrogen levels, right? That kind of peaks at ovulation and then-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -starts to dip and go down. At that point in the luteal phase, you step into luteal phase, our progesterone levels begin to go up. Also, in the follicular phase, we got testosterone levels goin’ up too-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -naturally, but then everything starts to drop towards the end of luteal phase.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: And the pin on how fast those hormones are plummeting, really, dicta- reay kind of dictates P- PMS, right? The- the- that pre-menstrual cycle-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -is removing out of that. And so what I find that with women, if indeed we have a really sharp decline, or maybe they didn’t even necessarily have a big increase in progesterone to begin with, we’re gonna see things like migraines, we’re gonna see things like bloating, uhm, mood swings, a lot of those symptoms that we see around PMS. So that’s basically the physiology. And the only reason why we even get an increase in progesterone is if we actually ovulate. And-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -for some women, sometimes that isn’t even the case as well. So it’s really important to kind of- to look at all those things, to run tests. My favorite tests for looking in hormones is the DUTCH test.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: I usually recommend it during the luteal phase.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, cool. So, you run ’em like a DUTCH Complete like arr- around day 19 to 22-ish?

Dr. Mariza Snyder: Things that like.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Kind of get that peak? And then do you run the- the month-long panels at all?

Dr. Mariza Snyder: I- I have not in the past.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: But, I know how important those can be. Yes. And I usually- when I was testing, it was ever- I would do- I would test every quarter.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I mean I’ll typically run the month-long one, if there was more of a fertility case, but then, uhm- I’ll do a lot of a- you know, the snapshot in that- in that peak of a luteal phase, and I can’t tell you, I think uhm, you said it just right. I see so many women these days that are coming in with either mass- massive luteal phase defects where that luteal phase is just shortened or that progesterone’s just dropped out significantly, you know? Instead of 15 to 20 or so on that DUTCH test, they’re- they’re less than 5, even- and that’s really concerning. And then, that can approach these women into uh- maybe a- an estrogen-dominant situation. Can you describe what that is?

Dr. Mariza Snyder: Absolutely. So, estrogen- so- the- that’s really that you asked. Couple things about estrogen-dominance, we- you know, I get so many questions around this, you- you can actually have low estrogen and still be estrogen-dominant.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: So it’s really the relationship between estrogen and progesterone. And so often, given what we’re exposed to every single day, given our stress levels, so, not only lifestyle but also environmental, we still find that women tend to have more estrogen in the system than progesterone. And there are multiple factors, right? Progesterone could be stalling from our cortisol lab- you know, cortisol, the progesterone’s still. So we have- there’s a multiple facets but what we’re finding in a lot of women is that, just- just by the sheer fact of life that we’re living, estrogen’s gonna be- estradiol is gonna be higher than normal compared to progesterone. And, there’s a lot of thing that we can do about that for sure. And we can definitely get into that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes. Yeah, very cool. And I’m even seeing a lot of women too that are at low progesterone but also low estrogen. Are you noticing that at all, too?

Dr. Mariza Snyder: Uh, that’s been me.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: [Laughs]

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And that’s just the hormone that just so depleted, right? Just-

Dr. Mariza Snyder: They’re so depleted. Yes. They’re absolutely depleted. And that has a lot to do with- I mean I- I find so often with women that it’s- a l- has a lot to do with the stress that that we’re living.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: You know, that’s very much like the key indicator, we just- we start burning out uhm- all of our hormones that we stopped creating the process where making them in a sufficient manner.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool. I wanna highlight what mechanism because you know, you are upper cervical chiropractic specialist and we talked about chiropractic on the headaches side, and part of that can happen is, if there’s stress and inflammation in the spine by misalignment of poor movement, that’s gonna stimulate a lot cortisol to help with the inflammation. And we know, just for the listeners, cortisol pulls from progesterone, you mentioned that. So, when we get rid of the inflammation and we help the- the alignment and brain communicate better with the spine, that can decrease that progesterone still ’cause we’re not pulling from the cortisol as much. Is that sound right?

Dr. Mariza Snyder: It does. I mean, you also have to- I always tell people, you can’t chiropractic a green smoothie your way out of chronic stress.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: ‘Cause it’s, how you perceive the environment. If you’re continuing to create an environment, you know, I was talking about women being Rushy- having Ru- Rushing Woman’s Syndrome.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: If you are raising from one thing to the next, you’re gonna constantly being in a situation, this not- not medical terms, but I call it the Clutch the Pearls syndrome.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: Where you’re constantly clutching the pearl. [Chuckles]

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: So, if you’re constantly in that state, the- there’s gonna be no doctor that I know that there’s an- and there’s no supplement.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: There’s no green smoothies, there’s no nothing that’s really gonna-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -get our body back on track until we change the way that we are behaving at- in accordance to our environment.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. That’s why a good functional medicine doctor, they’re gonna investigate the physical stressors. They’re gonna investigate the chemical stressors, that could be like you mentioned, the- the chronic stress state, the sleep, the poor food, the inflammatory food, the infections. The hormones maybe coming from the environment from food and pesticides, a d glyphosate, that totally make sense. And you mentioned the DUTCH testing. And that’s interesting because a lot of people I find at least more on the medical side I- I find it, they look at the hormones like the female hormones, the male hormones but, a lot of times they missed the adrenal hormone components. And what’s- what- [crosstalk]… yeah- yeah. Can you talk a little bit more about how the adrenals and why they’re so important to f- healthy female hormone function?

Dr. Mariza Snyder: Absolutely. So I- you know, I- you know, we necessarily see, you know, I was thinking about the- adrenals being the receivers of information. You know, they- they have a very important job, and that is to ensure, that is to listen to what the brain says, and you always talk about the Hypothalamic–pituitary–[adrenal] axis.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: Right, that relationship between-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -what we’re receiving, the HDA access-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: And- and that real- that information that’s related to the adrenals. And I- you know, I always talk about menopause and perimenopause being more of a stress condition than it is more of a hormone condition.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: Uhm because of our- if our- if our adrenals aren’t supporting that, if our- if our chronic stressors are under-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -chronic stress under control, we’re going to throw those hormones out because it’s all interconnected.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: And at the end of the day, Dr. Justin and you know this more than I do, uhm, is that we are hard wired for survival.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: That- okay you had 2 jobs biologically that we’re supposed to do. 1, survive-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -and 2, pass down genes.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: So, reproduce, right? So kinda new- a new baby coming on the way, right?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: And then when they have babies, well then you are an evolutionary success. So, our bodies, that’s the purpose. Now, hard-wiring towards survival means that we have to give up a lot of other thing. Our digestive system, our reproductive system takes a hit. You are a great thyroid expert, you know that a thyroid definitely over compensates for what’s going on as well.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: Uhm, but I wouldn’t necessarily see- I mean, and yes, you can definitely create adrenal fatigue over time. But you-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -think- take the wild for the adrenals to finally-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -say, “Enough is enough!”.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -“…I cannot take this anymore”, but I find that where we really gotta focus our efforts, is right here in the limbic system.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: Uhm, that’s where we need to change the che- the chemical conversation. Because if that HPA access is continuing to up-regulate every single day-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: Well, the adrenals are just like, “Dude, I’m just doing my job”.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: “…I just gotta- I gotta release this adrenal- this adrenaline, I gotta release this cortisol”-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -“…that’s my job, until one day, I am like, ‘I can’t do my job anymore. I can’t handle it'”. So, I would say that really, I always wanna work on the HPA access first-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -before I’d even begin to look actually at adrenal health. So, often I see that women have an up point of cortisol, maybe DHA is dysregulated, but the adrenals are still high functioning-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -still a while. Uh, so, that I usually wanna get to that root first which is I find right here.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Very interesting. And it- it- it could be just semantics. I’ll look at the HPA access is like the person in the old horse and buggy that- that’s- that’s whipping a thyroid horse. The thyroid horse-

Dr. Mariza Snyder: Yes.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -[crosstalk] the adrenals, or the ovaries, so yeah, make sense-

Dr. Mariza Snyder: [Crosstalk]

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …yeah, or the thyroid, or you can even go and- and-

Dr. Mariza Snyder: Or your gut, or your poor darn liver.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: Our liver is just like, “I can’t pour out enough glycogen, like I…”, you know, that’s where we get diabetes. We’re getting-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. So, you’re talking about really getting the communication and these feedback loops dialed back in, can we just go into some strategies, what are things that you are doing with the patients so that people are, you know, reading your work, what are the top 3 things and- and- and if you wanna qualify them with certain situations, that’d be helpful too.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: Absolutely. So, you know, we’re talking about kind of that- err- I think that first of all we just talk about the unexpected uhm, unexpected solution to health and radical self healing is awareness. You know, if you are not aware that you’re putting crap into your body, it’s really difficult to make those changes.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: If you’re not aware that you’ve had a gluten intolerance, you’re gonna probably still consume- eat glut- eat-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -gluten, right?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: And if you’re not aware that you are running from one thing to the next, and that you’re living in a high stress situation, you’re just gonna keep doing what you’re doing. So, I think the first step really is self-awareness. Recognizing that something is not right. And I know-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -for me, I thought I could green smoothie my way out of chronic stress-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: I also gonna get chiropractic my way out of chronic stress.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: And it didn’t work. I had to figure out that I kept- I had this operating system, this feedback loop that was firing-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -whether or not I knew it or not. So-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -I think some of the most important things is 1, we definitely live in a time of isolation. I’m so grateful for this technology that you and I-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -could be talking right here.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: What would be even better is if we were right together, right?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes, totally.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: So, uh, having friends on speed dial, having people and family in your life that you can give hugs to, that you can- you can, you know, connect with, kind of boost that oxytocin level that dose that cuddle hormone-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: Just being connected with people is number 1. Number 2, I love the power of plant-based medicine, so-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -I love essential oils-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: I think havin’ a tool, like a little oil like this-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: Uhm, Bergamot and Lavender, we know-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-huh.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -research, time and time again, to lower serum cortisol levels, lower blood pressure and lower pulse point, but most importantly, they disrupt the cycle, from sympathetic to parasympathetic in that HPA access.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: And I wanna disrupt the cycle.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: I wanna get ’em to habit. So not only does the chemistry by breathing the oils in-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -go to the limbic brain- limbic brain to disrupt the cycle. But the intention of you-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: Rubbing that oil, makin’ a decision like-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -“Hey, I feel…”-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Be aware.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -“…like I’m having a moment”, yes.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You’re aware.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: And that begins to change the cycle as well.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: I’ll do thing- Yeah?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Go on. Go ahead.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: Oh, I got some other things. Uhm, I do love adaptogenic herbs-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: I do love Ashwagandha, I love Rhodiola, I- I love Holy Basil, any of them- all of them, it depends on that- I think you- I think testing is important to kinda understand-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -what’s going on. They do love those adaptogenic herbs, ’cause they also work on the limbic brain in the HPA access.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: I also think food plays a big role. I know I did say that you can’t bring some the- you’re out of chronic stress, but man, those important nutrients-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -can really help support the body if indeed you’re just in scenario right now where you’re like, “You know what Dr. Mariza and Dr. Justin, I hear you, but right now I’m- I have to live in this emergency state for a little bit”. You know-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -life dictates that for me. So those are some of the big things that I normally recommend for people than breathing, exercise, yoga, just pausing for a moment throughout the day, just that self-awareness, and then, self-care. I think self-care is the game changer. Uhm, so those will be some of the lifestyle techniques that I- I always recommend to women to start implementing. If they’re looking to start with that root thing, that HPA access, so that we can start to change the conversation that’s happening inside of the body.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting. And that, when you’re looking at people, and let’s say you’re giving essential oils that are proven to lower cortisol, right?

Dr. Mariza Snyder: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Are- are- are you concerned if someone already has lower cortisol, or are you gonna be using other adaptogens that may, you know, have an up and down kind of bump in the direction. So, how are you evaluating that when you’re making specific recommendations?

Dr. Mariza Snyder: Absolutely, so yes. Could we have a situation where someone has significantly like at that point they de-regulate cortisol levels to so- such a degree-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -that they have- now they have lower cortisol levels? Yes. And so- and those ins- instances, I’m now looking more at and clearly, there are essential oils you can help boost cortisol, things like Rosemary, peppermint and citrus oils. So, we’re looking at a different response, and then yes, looking at different adaptogenic herbs to make those changes, that kinda- to heal the body’s- when we get you-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -to the base line, but also making those lifestyle changes as well. I mean, if in-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -deed, just grab in an oil just to have that moment for your-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -self. Uhm, I think- but that’s- it’s- that is important, it’s nice-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: Uh, especially they having a hard time going to sleep at night, uhm-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -but yeah, I mean, I think that the areas- I mean in- in all instances, everything is case by case.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting. Is there any herb that you recommend that you feel just a really good multi-task, or where your cortisol could be low, and may give you a little pick me up, and it could also be a little bit high and you could be stressed that can kind of bring you down. Is there anything in that category?

Dr. Mariza Snyder: I think Rhodiolas would your- your go tea there. I like it the most, I feel like it- it really- and not only have support mitochondrial function, which-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -I love, uhm, but it also can meet you both ways. I think more than Ashwagandha, uh, Rhodiola really is one of those adaptogenic herbs that will kinda give you what you need.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, cool. I wanna go a little bit- I’m gonna go a little bit deeper here. Can we talk about some of the nutritional compounds that are in these herbs? Are you aware of some of the- uh you- we talked about the adaptogenic components, other nutritional compounds that we’re also getting from some of these essential oils that are helping us, as well? Kinda like vitamins and minerals or polyphenols, what’s happening there?

Dr. Mariza Snyder: Yes, essential oils aren’t nutrition. Uhm, some of them can definitely have antioxidant benefit especially like citrus oils-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: ‘Kay.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -but I don’t necessarily consider them nutrition-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -I’m so much as like consider them as being- uhm, it’s powerful- kind of- uh, organic chemistry, right? Uhm-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -really can work in the body and aid in the body. So, nutritionally, I usually still lend to a p- uh- plant-based nutrition or supplementation. You have someone is-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -deficient in magnesium, well, we gonna get them with some magnesium.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: And B-Vitamins then activated B-Vitamins are gonna be what I recommend. But usually when I use essential oils for most importantly, is cre- is- is- is to bridge the gap for the lifestyle changes that we know we should be doing, we just aren’t doing. So, for instant, if we are going to- if we’re having a hard time going to bed every single night-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -because, we cannot shut up brain, or-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: We- we just- we just prefer to work instead. Whatever that maybe, you’re in your, you know, you’re in your phone, you’re on your iPad, or whatever that maybe, like I was just in the phone with my grandma today, one of my- I go look on both my grandmas for- for different reasons, but-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: – my uhm- my little Mexican grandma, my mother’s mother, she- I was- I called her and my grandma is like, “You know, everytime- every night before we go to bed, I just watch you. I watch you before I go to bed”, and I’m just like, “Okay”. I’m like, “Well, do you learn anything from me?”, and she’s like, “Yeah, I don’t know at all”, you know, she’s [laughs]. I think, “Grandma, you shouldn’t be on your iPad before bed”. Look [laughs]-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally, totally.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: Just killing her- anyway, it’s just a really funny moment, but I think so many people like my grandma where they’re on, YouTube or they’re on- I don’t-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -even know where she’s watching, we have no idea. Uhm, but, having a ritual where you’re utilizing the essential oils, like the process of Lavender, Bergamot, Cedar Wood-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -clary sage, whatever those oils are, getting into the habit of creating this behavior, but also knowing that that chemistry is helping to really calm down the brain as well ’cause they’re all very common essential oils. So that’s kinda how I love to leverage them. How can we use them to set a- set a mo- uh, evening ritual where you’re calming down the brain and going to bed. How do you use them to go to the gym every single day? Like, I love peppermint and wild oranges, an instant energizer body. How do you use them for productivity and- and energy and alertness, and working memory. Right, a combination of peppermint-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -Rosemary and Frankincense, that’s gonna do that for you. So I think when it comes to these lifestyle changes, the self-care, if we have these oils that can punctuate how we live our life, that’s how I love to use them in aiding in the- in the daily decisions that we make, either, hopefully you start your day with great decisions that lead to more great decisions, and you’e leveraging that chemistry to just have a really great experience.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool. Is there anything you used synergistically outside of diet and lifestyle? Are there any of nutrients that you will use supplementally synergize with essential oil? Uh- I’m just kinda throw it out there, maybe like magnesium and lavender, or something like that, is there anything you seen clinically?

Dr. Mariza Snyder: Yeah. Uhm- gosh, that’s a good question. You know what, I- I- no, and clinic- clinically, yes, I guess maybe case by case for me-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Mariza Snyder:-I don’t know if there’s a lot of research where we’re seeing a lot of the combinations of herb-herbs, and, I mean oils, or s- or vitamins and minerals and oils. Uhm, we- I- what I do know is that yeah, like when you’re heading to bed at night, let’s say it’s lavender, and maybe you’re using something like melatonin or maybe-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -something like uhm, eating cream rose, I think-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -that those have a really profound impact. UHm, let’s say that you are using uhm, like- like, I recommend a lo- I recommend turmeric, I recommend omegas, I recommend uhm, something for cognitive function in particular but I also know that rose mary, the chemical constituent rose mary which is 1/8 ___[22:06]-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -actually helps to increase acetylcholine in the brain. And so [crosstalk] as well. Yeah. So, pair as well as, I think important supplements that can help um, boost brain function. But just breathing in rose mary will inc- will literally increase working memory by 75%.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Awesome.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: Right there in there, without taking omegas. But you should be taking omegas anyway. DHEA, so- so just- err- uh- DHEA- DH- err- gosh I’m having a- anyway, the point is this, when you’re taking-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -those omegas, you’re boosting memory and- and brain function. So, I- I guess in a sense, I’m usually telling people to be consistent with them, uhm, so that you’re getting the response that you want, but I also- I’m recommending supplements, so it feel like when it’s- we’re coming to long ___[22:47], and-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -really changing those biological processes, then we have that in place as well.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, very cool. Alright, I got some rapid fire questions here. I’m putting you on the spot, you ready?

Dr. Mariza Snyder: Alright. Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Alright, you already said 1, I- I’l answer it for you. Memory, your favorite essential oil sounded like it was Rose Mary-

Dr. Mariza Snyder: Rose Mary, yes.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay. Good. Anxiety, favorite?

Dr. Mariza Snyder: Anxiety. Uhm, lavender, lavender and vetiver.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Good. Depression?

Dr. Mariza Snyder: Depression. Oh my goodness. Uhm, frankincense, Meliss- I- I’m giving you another one. Frankincense, Melissa and citrus oils.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent. Uh, pain in the joint?

Dr. Mariza Snyder: Wo- I would say well, camphor is really what I’m looking for, but camphor can be found in winter green, uhm-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -I also love copaiba, uhm, for-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -it’s connection with the uhm- the- oh my gosh, the- kind of work similar to CBD so it connects with the CBD receptors it’s CBD-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -receptors in the body-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I know what you’re talking about, the- the- that endocannabinoids system, that-

Dr. Mariza Snyder: Yes.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -makes sense.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: Yes. exactly.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: What about brain fog?

Dr. Mariza Snyder: Uh, brain fog. So, I love Rosemary. Rosemary, peppermint, frankincense, same kind of concept there.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Good. How about something like an ear infection?

Dr. Mariza Snyder: Uh, ear infection. So, I love Tea Tree Oil. So, Tea Tree Oil is a great antiseptic, antibacterial, but le- so my go tea for- for an ear infections is Tea Tree, Basil and lavender around the ear, diluted at around 25% dilution.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay. And is there any other uhm, chronic issues or situations that you get asked a lot, that I didn’t mentioned yet?

Dr. Mariza Snyder: Gut-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh!

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -all day, everyday.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Woah.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: [Laughs]

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: [Laughs]

Dr. Mariza Snyder: Right? So- uhm, so in- you know what, gut is- it’s a whole nother conversation, and it’s- it’s- it’s- it’s actually a hundred different conversations.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: So, let’s say you are having an acute gut issue, maybe you decided to eat pizza on a friday night and you knew better, and you didn’t-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -take your enzymes or, you took- you didn’t take- you took your enzymes but still it didn’t matter-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -because you have gluten and- uhm, and dairy sensitivities. Uhm, so I love a blend- it’s a blend- it’s a combination of phenyl, peppermint and ginger.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh. Yeah?

Dr. Mariza Snyder: And I’m not saying that those oils are gonna cure what’s going on there, but at least it’s gonna lessen the acute symptoms.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -and that’s happening inside of the gut. And so, I just make up a du- a little roller like this, 10 to 15 drops of each.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: …over the stomach, and those 3 oils have been researched, particularly because of the herbs, the chemical constituents in those oils have been really, calm down things like bloating, constipation, diarrhea, and- and just in pain in the gut that could be happening in a small-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -and large intestine.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and a lot of those oils too, stimulate uhm, acid production, enzyme production naturally as well. So, you’re- you’re kinda get in the body to pinch in help as well?

Dr. Mariza Snyder: Yeah, and peristalsis as well. So removing-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -through, yeah. And, another one, I mean, I traded migraines and headaches for so many years.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: I do love, uhm, a combination of lavender, peppermint and frankincense, that’s kind of my power combo-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: Again, in a roller, 10 to 15 drops of each, uh- you know, for me, it’s- it’s- if you can catch that migraine on time, it’s always cervicogenic for so many people.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -so always start back here, uhm, and just get those oils on, you know, every 30 minutes, uh, so that you- maybe- so that, that’s the option instead of uh- a non -steroidal anti-inflammatory.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s great. And you mentioned earlier, we talked about luteal phase defect and our low progesterone in that last half of the cycle, is there anything essential oil-wise that you do to help support that luteal phase, that low progesterone/ PMS, hormonal environment?

Dr. Mariza Snyder: Absolutely. So, there, my gotu oil I called the “Beyonce” of hormonal oils-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: [Laughs]

Dr. Mariza Snyder: [Crosstalk]. I have a blend, it’s called my superwoman blend, and it’s-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -actually what this is right here. This is what I’ve been holding up all day.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, cool.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: And they’re designed for- yeah, it’s kinds luteal defect, helping to boost progesterone levels. So, the 2 gotu oils for boosting progesterone levels are gonna be, uh, clary sage and thyme. Now, thyme, not the sexiest smell in the world, but you can-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -definitely make up a blend like that-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -on the bottom of the feet or right over the ovaries. This one doesn’t have thyme, but it has geranium which can also do that. What I also love about geranium is- it helps the liver in the de- in the pa- phase 1 and phase 2  of the detoxification-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -pathway, it helps to breakdown uhm estrogen metabolites. So I do love geranium for that. So, this is 12 drops of clary sage, 10 drops of lavender, 5 drops of geranium, 5 drops-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Ah.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -cedar wood, it’s a- it’s a blend; and 4 drops of lengling, and so, applyin’ it over the ovaries or right here, ’cause remember-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -oils definitely goes straight into the bloodstream.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: Right here in the wrist, I love it on my neck as well, uhm, and just a couple times a day, uhm, it’s also great for mood support and it’s great for cravings and energy. So, it’s kind of a multi-faceted essential oil, but I have women using it for period, their periods and PMS all the time, all over the country and all over the world, and with great success. So I love this one.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool. Very cool.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Now, one of my biggest pet peeves, just ’cause this could be a hormonal stressor as well, and it just drives me crazy, is when people have- when guys either have like a strong, uhm, cologne, or womens have a s- have a strong perfume on, what can be an essential oil alternative, you know, for- for a woman or for man, that can kinda still give ’em that- that smell that they want but it wouldn’t be non-toxic and drive people crazy?

Dr. Mariza Snyder: Oh, silly. I have a lot of perfume blends. If I, you know- it depends on the person. The-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -Superwoman blend for women, a lot of women wear as perfume-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Great.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -’cause it smells great, and who doesn’t want side-benefits, right?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes. Yeah.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: That’s what I love. But with guys- so, you think about most colognes, but ___[28:04] is vetiver, and-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: Vetiver is a powerful neurological essential oil.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: And fortunately, you’re getting a synthetic virginning cologne, and so- uh- you know, uh- vetiver, citruses, myrrh’s, frankincense, sandalwoods, those are all oils that are used in colognes. I don’t have a very specific male cologne recipe  in my ha- in my head right now, but I- there’s a lot of them out there.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: And a lot of guys use them. My husband made up his own thing-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -I have no idea what’s in that blend. But he does his thing, and then for me, I’m obsessed-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -with jasmine and rose. So, I wear a combination of jasmine and rose. Jasmine, what’s- what’s really interesting, is that jasmine’s been researched to help women overcome postmortem depression. Uhm, it’s also a libido booster-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, cool.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -and then rose is just a really powerful, beautiful essential oil so, I- that combo is just so beautiful to me, my husband loves it. Jasmine’s intoxicating. And so, a lot of women really grabbed a taste towards jasmine, yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool. Now-

Dr. Mariza Snyder: Yes.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -do you manufacture your own essential oils or do you have certain lines out there that you like or you think are really high quality?

Dr. Mariza Snyder: I think- you know, I think when it comes to the “I do not manufacture”-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -oh my goodness, the- the- the- the amount of effort and time and research that goes-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -into the oils is just- just- profound. Uhm, I- when I always is when you’re researching the company, and I do have a company that I prefer, but make sure that that company, they- they tell you where they’re sourcing their oils. Where are these oils coming from?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hmm.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: Each and everyone of those oils that I mentioned a minute ago, and that superwoman blend, come from a different country-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -all over the world. And, different, very small batch growers are growing those in- in a very, you know, in an organi type of setting. Then, once those oils are produced and harvest in a sustainable way, I wanna know how they’re tested. Do they use gas chromatography, are they using spectroscopy, are they using chirality testing, are they using microbial testing, how are they testing these oils, and, as third party uh- laboratory should be testing the oils to really guarantee their efficacy, and if it’s a really great company, they will be a lot number on that label, where you can pull up the testing of that batch. So-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, very cool.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -that’s what I’m looking for when I’m looking for oils. Because if you’re trying to use these re- ther- therapy to benefit, well then you just don’t wanna put crap on your body.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it. Is there any s- is there any specific essential oil companies that you know of that- that meet those standards you just mentioned?

Dr. Mariza Snyder: Yes, there are couple. My gotu favorite is Doterra. I’m a big fan of-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, Doterra, cool.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -I’m a Doterra girl.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Cool.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: And uhm, I’ve been using them for years, I’ve been recommending them millions of people as well with great success, so I feel really confident with the quality control that they implement.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Awesome, very cool. And I know, today, we are really getting into a lot of the essential oils and the hormone connection which is great. And this is kind of I think a perfect segway for you to kinda dive in and just keep people a little sneak preview about your book which is gonna be I think a more in depth version of this conversation.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: Absolutely. So, I have a new book comin’ out, I don’t know when this is airing, but do have a new book coming out, it’s called “The Essential Oils Hormone Solution”. And it literally, not only do I go into the “Why”, the- the- the chemical, biochemical “Why” of what’s going on in the body-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: So often women are like, “Well, what do you have for menopause?”, and I’m just like, “Well, what about menopauses that concern?”, you know? And- and what if- what if it isn’t menopause at all, maybe it’s something else? And so, understanding the- the chemical implications, what’s going on with hormones, then giving women oils, protocols, self care, it’s all built in, and then I have a 14-day hormone reset program that contains my hormone trifecta which is a combination of food, oils and self care. And when you put those things together, it really is magic. So, that is what the book entails. 400-pages.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Woah!

Dr. Mariza Snyder: It’s a very big book, with 40 pages of bibliography. So, I did hundreds of hours of research for this book.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s amazing.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And then, the book’s called what, “The Essential…”, can you repeat it again?

Dr. Mariza Snyder: Oh, yeah, “The Essential Oils Hormone Solution”. Here is this what it-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -looks like, and it’s on-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Perfect.

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -it’s on Amazon. It’s selling like “Hot Cake” which makes me so-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s already out now?

Dr. Mariza Snyder: -happy. Yes. Well, it’s- it’s right now, it’s for pre-order but people were buying it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Great. I’m gonna put the links- the Amazon links down below. So, if anyone’s listening to this on the iTunes or YouTube, just click below and you’ll be able to get it. That’s awesome. Is there any other information at all you wanna share with the listeners here before we wrap up?

Dr. Mariza Snyder: I would just say, I think the biggest message that you and I probably bring to table is that, you really have- you really are the CEO of your health. You know, we have a- there’s a lot of great practitioners out there like Dr. Justin and myself who can really guide you on this path, but just know that there is- there’s ownership for you. And that, you don’t have- you know, you don’t need to be told that you’re just gonna have to live with this disease or this condition, but there’s definitely a way out, it’s just a matter of deciding that yes, “It’s time for me”, and just reaching out to people like ourselves, be- listening to Dr. Justin’s podcasts, because that’s exactly what we’re here to to do is to really navigate that journey for you, but you’re making the best decisions for health.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool. And if listeners wanna get more information about you, where is the best place to go?

Dr. Mariza Snyder: So, I have a podcast myself, it’s called the Essentially You podcast, and it’s a great place to find me, it’s everywhere. Uhm, I have other books as well, but then, my website is drmariza.com, I have fun, awesome little chit-chit there, on the top 5 oils for hormone balance, you guys go and grab that, and then if you do pre-order the book, I have $300 worth in bonuses that instantly gets delivered to your inbox, so you can get started right away. So, even if you’re like, “Man, I just- the bo- book isn’t gonna be here for a couple weeks”, no worries, the bonuses will hook you up, until a book arrives.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool. And just for the listeners, there’s a silent “Z” in that name here. D-R M-A-R-I-Z-A-[dot].com, and I see a cool little optin’ on the top 5 essential oils for hormone balance. So, while you’re up there, feel free and get that. Dr. Mariza, anything else you wanna add?

Dr. Mariza Snyder: That- I think that’s it, I think we covered a good amount of information. Dr. Justin, thank you so much for the great questions, it was such a pleasure to be here.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Thanks to in the part of the podcast. Thanks Dr. Mariza!

Dr. Mariza Snyder: Mm-hmm.


References:

The Essential Oils Hormone Solution

https://justinhealth.com/products/antifungal-tea-tree-oil-body-wash/

https://www.drmariza.com/

https://www.doterra.com/

https://www.justinhealth.com/ 

Lowering Histamine Naturally – Getting to the root cause of high histamine – Podcast #154

Dr. Justin Marchegiani and Evan Brand engage in a discussion about histamine. Listen as they talk about finding the root cause and driving factor of the issues related to histamine. Learn all about the symptoms associated with histamine issues and find out how problems with the adrenals, hormones, gut, diet and lifestyle contribute to these issues.

Know how some of the medications like anti-depressants, immune modulators and beta-blockers are related to nutrient deficiency. Gain information regarding higher histamine foods and natural supplements. Apply some of the natural solutions and recommendations regarding diet and lifestyle that would address histamine issues.

 Woman-sneezing-due-to-allergies

In this episode, we cover:

04:12   DAO& HNMT: role in our bodies

08:13   Medications and nutrient deficiencies

10:38   Higher Histamine Foods

18:39   Natural Supplements to lower histamine

21:57   Toxic mold

28:42   Diet and Healthy enzymes

 

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Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And we are live on YouTube. Evan, to it’s Dr. J here. How are we doing today, man?

Evan Brand: Hey, man, Happy Wednesday! You and I have been pulling out the research books today. We’re like, “Hey, let’s make sure we know everything as— as much as possible about histamine.” A few have been asking you, asking myself, you’ve done interviews with histamine experts and what was it, the histamine chef is that who you chatted with?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Yup. Yasmina Ykelenstam. She’s the histamine chef and we did a podcast last year on this topic. And uhm lot of good stuff, we’re kinda rehash some of the key take homes, we’ll talk about getting to the root cause and we’ll also talk about ways that we can supplement and just support histamine issues in general, more specifically.

Evan Brand: Yeah. So what you and I were talking about affairs. We— we don’t really market ourselves necessarily, it’s like, “Hey, histamine practitioner” There’s a lot of people the kind of attached the word “histamine” to their name or to their marketing efforts, but, you and I, as we start to dig deeper and find root causes of the histamine intolerance which we’ll talk about exactly what this means, we’re fixing histamine intolerance just as a side effect of doing all the other good work we’re doing to support the adrenals and support the immune system and ensuring that people are free of infections and fixing neurotransmitters like all the stuff, Oopp, it just happens to fix histamine intolerance.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. Like in the functional medicine world, you know, there is ways that you can market to so you can kinda row people in specifically coz you talk to their issues, but again, if you really are a good functional medicine practitioner, clinician, you’re hitting all of the body system. So in general, you’re not gonna really miss anything but there are ways that we can dive in deeper to issues such as histamine. And we’re gonna try to do that today. We’ll kinda zone out a bit. So we have like the big picture perspective, so people don’t forget what the root causal things that can’t be ignored are, and then we’ll also talk about you know, palliative things we can do on top of just the—the functional medicine principal stuff to get even better results.

Evan Brand: Sure. So should we start with some symptoms? What exactly people are noticing when they’re coming to us and they’re saying, “Hey, I think I have a histamine issue and I believe it could be coming from my diet.” We’ve got symptoms like headaches, could be anxiety, it could be your face flushing, it could be an itchy tongue or runny nose. What— what else am I missing symptom wise?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Headaches. All those different things. It could be flushing, it could be even hives or the eukaryotes, those wheels that come up on the skin uhm— those can be all, you know, things that are happening. And again, what’s histamine doing? Histamine is a neurotransmitter. And there are various receptor sites for histamine in the body. There’s you know, H1 or histamine 1. Histamine 2, 3 and 4. And again, these things can control for instance, smooth muscle and endothelial tissue that affects blood vessels. This is what like Benadryl and like Claritin would—would utilize. So if you have like an allergic reaction and like your skin get super blown up, right? That’s why you do like Benadryl, right? Or histamine two controls acid secretion and abdominal pain. So histamine can also increase acid as well. It can also increase the heart rate. Histamine three has an effect on controlling the nerves, sleep behavior, appetite. Histamine four has an effect on the intestines, the spleen the colon, white blood cells and the inflammatory response. So it’s kind like this, right? You take your hammer; you whack your thumb, and all of these different reactions that happen, right? So you can look at all of the clotting factors and the cytokines and all of the inflammation and the white blood cell mobilization. And if you just kinda zone back, zone back, zone back, what caused it all? The hammer. So we’ll kinda zoom in, alright, what’s happening and the nitty-gritty, but then we’ll kinda zoom out and say, “Okay, what’s the hammer in this analogy?”  Coz if we can focus on the hammer, it’s way easy to wrap your head around, “Don’t whack your hand—don’t whack your thumb with a hammer than it is to look at all of the nitty-gritty. But we’ll kinda do both. So people that are looking to nerd out a little bit, kinda get satisfied and the people that just want the action items get satisfied, too.

Evan Brand: Sure. So let me just pronounce what we’re actually talking about. Diamine Oxidase also known as DAO, so basically, this is an enzyme that we’re making on our own in our body which is basically just like when we’re talking about proteases and lipases and lactases and just different digestive enzymes. DAO is an enzyme that’s basically going to find, it’s gonna seek out like the CIA, it’s gonna find the bad guy which is gonna be excess histamine in your foods and it’s can help break those down it could be foods or beverages so we’ll talk about the alcohol component in DAO when it works properly, it can break down up to 99% of the histamine. And then there’s 1% of histamine that actually enter circulation but we’ll talk about some of the root causes here. There could be going on with the gut. When you’re deficient in DAO, which is why you can supplement, which Justin told me off air, “Man, this stuff is sold out everywhere.” But when you’re supplementing with it or you’re fixing the root causes, and your getting your DAO in time to be back in adequate amounts, you’re able to break down the histamine and you no longer have histamine intolerance, which is why people can take DAO supplements and they can feel better but you’ve always got to work back to the root cause of other issues why is it not working in the first place.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. It’s also this DAO which is Diamine Oxidase and there is also another one called HNMT Histamine N-Methyl Transferase and these both have an effect of breaking down histamine. So if we take off our functional medicine root cause hat and we put on our palliative natural medicine hat, we wanted to just control symptoms, well, we can give enzymes like DAO which has been backordered for years. They are typically extracted from kidney or thymus tissue and big back order for a while, but we can give those to help lower histamine, alright? Coz that enzyme helps break histamine down so, you know, it’s like someone that has a lactose intolerance issue, they may take Lactaid which is milk enrich with lactase, the enzyme, right, to break down the milk, the milk sugar and they have less diarrhea. So kinda into that perspective where we’re adding in the enzyme to be able to break things down uh— which can be helpful from a palliative perspective. Uh— number two, we can avoid— we can make sure we have all the nutrients required to make a lot of these enzymes. So like the HNMT enzyme, we need SAMI, right? We need SAMI, S- Adenosyl Methionine which is really important for MTHFR. Uhm the Diene Oxidase we also need B6, we need copper, some of these other enzymes to for histamine processing, right? We need B2; we need iron; we need B5, right? And a lot of these nutrients we’re also gonna deplete with adrenal dysfunction, too. So you can see how adrenal issues and low histamine can be affected. Anytime you see B vitamins we know how important healthy gut bacteria is for producing B vitamins. So you can see, if we have a dysbiosis or SIBO, we have food allergens driving inflammation, driving leaky gut and/or gastrointestinal permeability, that can all affect our ability to make enzymes to lower and process histamine.

Evan Brand: Well said. So any gut infection, I mean, Justin and I that’s one of the things that we work on so much because it’s so common you probably heard our stories but, you know, I had H. pylori, I had parasites, I had bacterial overgrowth, I had yeast and all that’s driving leaky gut. So if you got something like H. pylori, for example, which we see every single week on lab results when we’re looking at people, the H. pylori is going to suppress the stomach acid and so if you’ve got undigested food, even that alone, could be causing leaky gut, therefore causing low DAO, therefore causing you to have “cortical histamine intolerance”. So if you work with a practitioner on histamine, we’ll talk about the diet piece in a second, but you’ve got to get the gut in healthy spot. You’ve got to fix the—the diet. Make sure that the gluten is out of the diet, or anything that could be causing a leak ego situation; otherwise, you’re just setting yourself up for failure. And then, surprisingly enough, which maybe you know more about this than I do, but it’s interesting that a lot of these medi—medications, I don’t know the mechanism but like antidepressants like Cymbalta, Prozac, Zoloft, you’ve got the immune modulators like Humira and Enbrel. You’ve got the Metaprololol, the beta-blockers; you’ve got Zyrtec and Benadryl. All of these things are causing the DAO enzyme to become deficient. I mean I guess the mechanism isn’t too important but it is interesting.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well I think some of the mechanism pretty straightforward. Uhm— a lot of this is via nutrient deficiencies. A lot of these medications create nutrient deficiencies and a lot of these nutrition these nutrient deficiencies and a lot of these nutrition deficiencies revolve primarily around B vitamins and minerals. So it makes sense. If we create deficiency with B vitamins and minerals, of course, that’s gonna create more issues. I mean it’s like blood pressure. If you look at the acid block—the beta-blockers or the uhm—water pills like hydrochlorothiazide or the Lasix.

Evan Brand: Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: They are either diuretics but they create deficiencies with potassium and magnesium, which are really important for blood pressure. So you can see a lot of these drugs actually can make the problem worse. It’s an amazing business model if you’re only looking at you know the money factor, but if you’re looking at fixing the root cause, like we are, it’s definitely not good. You wanna really back up.

Evan Brand: Agree. Well said. You wanna talk about diet?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Just to kinda—just to kinda back out just a little bit. Uhm—we talk about the nutrient deficiencies, right? We talked about medications and antibiotics, antacids, antihistamines, right? Uhm—We talked about uhm—well, I’m gonna add it, nutrient stressors. So if we have more stress, more adrenal stress, more fatigue, poor sleep, inflammatory diet, that’s gonna drive more in a higher increase in histamine. If we have hormonal imbalances whether we’re estrogen dominant or that we have adrenal dysfunction, right? Imbalance in our stress hormones, cortisol, rhythm issues, a lot of that’s gonna be driven by a lot of these lifestyle stressors. That’s gonna really create more histamine issues. Now, I always backup. How do we know someone has a histamine issue? Well, do they have any of those histamine symptoms we mentioned in the beginning? Coz we know histamine does a few things. It helps increase heartbeat; it helps with gastric acid secretion; it opens the blood vessels, hence why when, you get allergies or allergic reaction, you swell. It helps increase bronchial dilation; it helps with gut permeability; it increases adrenaline. But if people get headaches or flushed or rashes or headaches with higher histamine foods, we definitely take notice. And those higher histamine foods, the big one, is going to be fermented foods. Do you get worse with fermented foods? Do things like teas create, you know, problems? If you have bone broth, does that create problems? Does citrus fruits create problems? Do meats over, you know, they’re too old, create problems? Uhm—does chocolate and coffee create problems? So if we start seeing issues with some of those symptoms, I really look a little bit closer to see what could be the driving factor.

Evan Brand: Yeah. I’ll list down a couple of more, too. Kombucha—that’s gonna be popular for our crowd, our community.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Evan Brand: Yogurts, even if it’s like a grass-fed yogurt, your sauerkraut, if you’re having flare-ups, I’ve had some women that said have flare-ups on their skin after doing sauerkraut, that’s a sign right there and then alcohol, too. So wine, beers, champagnes even if it’s organic wine, it’s not gonna matter. Cured meats— so salami, could be pepperoni, the beloved bacon—bacon an issue, unfortunately for the time being. You mention the citrus fruit, aged cheese and then nuts— walnuts, cashews, peanuts, avocados. I believe— I don’t know if it was histamine, but I had something going on where I had to pull out avocados for like six weeks. I was having headaches from them. It was no other foods. It wasn’t any other nuts and seeds but I believe I had—I’m gonna guess a histamine issue because why else would avocados give me a headache?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, exactly. Yeah, totally. So—

Evan Brand: I was doing like everyday they’re so good and so easy to add to a meal, so.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. And then we also have things like mast cell activation disorder, right? Histamines produced by mast cells, so you got these like basophils, which are like in our white blood cells, right? They’re like one of the smallest amount of white blood cells are basophils. And these basophils go into our blood straight to our tissue. They become uhm—mast cells. And these mast cells will produce histamine, alright? So then you have this thing like called mast cell activation disorder. So like the more inflamed you become, right, the more your body tends to dysfunction. And—and you get more names for that kind of inflammation whether it’s IVD or IBS or mast cell activation disorder or some type of you know, allergic issue or some type of autoimmune issue. You can just go through all the different names. The more inflamed someone gets, the more symptoms. And basically diseases are nothing more than grouping a constellation of symptoms together. That’s why it’s funny when people tell me, “I just need a diagnosis.” Well, a diagnosis is nothing more than someone in the medical field taking a set of symptoms that have been, you know, trace for you know, many, many years into a disease name and someone studied and published. But it doesn’t do anything, it just basically groups these symptoms together and maybe there’s a drug for it, which is typically how a disease, you know, gets name because of the drug or treatment for the most part. But in the end, does it really help you fix the issue? A lot of times, “No”. But it gives people relief to know that it’s something, but again, if you’re depressed and you’re stuck on antidepressant your whole life, well, do you really feel good about that if you’re not fixing the issue? Maybe not.

Evan Brand: Right and I had a—I had a diagnosis of IBS, right?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Evan Brand: We have no idea what’s going on but here’s some acid blockers I was never talked to about the root cause ever. So, for me, if you’re seeking a diagnosis, I would just let that attachment go because you really don’t need a term for the symptoms. We just need to figure out what’s going on. So, you mention the diet piece, we hit the gut piece, we hit the—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Adrenal and hormone deficiency, too, I think.

Evan Brand: Say that again.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We hit the adrenal and hormone piece, too.

Evan Brand: Yeah. Adrenals. That’s very important. So, how should we go about this? I mean, we’ve— we put all the pieces on the table, now how should we arrange this kinda step 1-2-3-4-5? Diet first?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, off the bat, I would say, look at like kind of like your histamine bucket or your stress bucket. Everything goes in that bucket. Some people—it just sucks, they are brought into this world with the poor genetic constitution and their bucket’s smaller. What that means is they just can’t tolerate as much stuff. That means, hey, if they got a little bit of gluten and a little bit of stress, their bucket is full. Some people can have a lot more things. They could have some medications in there, some stress and sleep, some poor food, some nutrient deficiency, and then maybe their symptoms start to increase. Now, again, over time, we naturally have a smaller bucket overtime because our hormones become less restorative the older we get. So we just want to make sure that we know that theirs is bucket mindset and the more we take stressors out of the bucket, we can make a small bucket uhm— we can add more space to it. So someone that’s got a big bucket but is three quarters full, well, if we have a smaller bucket that’s a hundred percent empty, we may create more resiliency for us, even though our bucket, genetically, is smaller. So we have control. We’re not victims. We just got to be honest with ourselves. If we got a small bucket, we just gotta be on point more frequently. So, we do that by working on blood sugar stability, we do that with the baseline Paleo template, that you can work on customizing with your functional medicine doc regarding what that looks like macro wise and whether or not uhm—you have to add an extra digestive support to be able to breakdown the proteins and fats that’s important. Now we can look at the hormones, if there are significant hormone or adrenal issues, we gotta work on it because that helps improve our ability to regulate blood sugar inflammation and stress. And then, we also got to look at our hormones, too. We have significant hormonal imbalances, we have to work on supporting that so we can develop our healthier cycle or healthier anabolic hormones. We could put on muscle and recover. And then, of course, this goes without saying, gut issues. Coz if we have dysbiosis, leaky gut, we have chronic infections like H. pylori or Blasto or Crypto or Entamoeba histolytica or Giardia. Any of these parasites are gonna create leaky gut. They’re gonna create more nutrient deficiencies. And a lot of these nutrient deficiencies are needed to make healthy DAO or HNMT enzymes to break down histamine. And these enzymes, all these nutrients also help make healthy uh— nutrients for a detoxification system as well.

Evan Brand: Well said. So you got to get tested. That’s our philosophy—Test, don’t guess. I mean, you could probably fix maybe 50% of the issue just by working with a good nutritionist, their practitioners are gonna help you dial in the diet, right? Just getting that piece started even if you’re closer to an AIP approach, you are already gonna be eliminating a lot of the problematic foods including alcohol. So if you’re working with a nutritionist, you make it 50% there, but to get fully better, adrenals— test them, we’re gonna run the stool panel, we’re gonna look for infections that way. We’re gonna look for a lot of problems on the organic acids, too. Fungus, yeast Clostridium bacteria, uh— detox problems. I mean, all of that is a factor, so there’s never gonna be just one silver bullet. If somebody tries to sell you my online histamine course and there’s like one silver bullet they’re promoting, I would be skeptical because like any topic we discussed, there’s 20-30 maybe 50 factors that all need to be factored into that pie chart which is the pie chart being your problem. How is that problem broken down? Maybe it’s 50% adrenals for one person, but it could be 5% adrenals for another person. If they’ve got a super positive attitude about it, that could change things, too.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. So we fix the nervous system stimulation, the stress— that’s the diet and lifestyle,  that’s also the adrenals. We fix the gut bacterial imbalance, which could be infections, it could be just low beneficial bacteria. We cut out the high histamine foods. We cut out the histamine blocking, the DAO blocking foods: coffee tea etc. And we try to add lower histamine, paleo foods, in the meantime, which typically are gonna be uhm— low sugar fruits, the citrus-free, typically vegetables are gonna be okay, uh—typically fresh meats are gonna be okay. Healthy fats, maybe minus avocado, are gonna be okay. Uh— avoid the—you know, the aged meats and fermented foods for a period of time. But as we get the gut healed and we fix these issues, we should be able to get better and better and better. And then there also additional supplements we can add in as well. They can make a difference. So in my line, we use one called, Aller Clear, that I formulated that has things like, stinging nettles, it’s got promalin, potassium bicarb uh—these are things that have been used for a long time to help lower histamine naturally. Uhm— big big fan of that. Uhm—let’s see. What else can we do on top of that? I got my list here. Quercetin, like I mentioned, vitamin C, these are in Aller Clear as well to help lower histamine levels naturally. Well I also did a research on that. Grapefruit, seed extract and pycnogenol, which are in these kinda category of league Proantothocyanidin which are these kinda antioxidant bioflavonoid and some of these really good uhm—fruits that can be helpful. We have green tea. Again, it can be a natural antihistamine but can also be a DAO blocker so you got take that with a grain of salt. Uh—magnesium can also be very helpful, stinging nettle can helpful, omega-3 fatty acids uh—can be helpful, uh— some essential oils— peppermint, lavender, lemon can also be helpful. Again, but be careful because some of them are citrus there. You just got to test it out. And of course, a lot of the herbs to help knock down dysbiosis can help in the long run so like the berberines and the goldenseal can also be very helpful as well. So a lot of different alternatives there. Any other comments or concerns, Evan?

Evan Brand: Yeah. I’m guessing some of the medicinal mushrooms can help, too. I’m  not too familiar on the exact mechanism, but I’m assuming things like reishi, cordyceps mushrooms. I’m guessing those may help too depending on how they were grown, of course, uh—would probably make a difference modulating the immune system can be helpful.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. Is there any other questions or comments you wanna add before we start hitting up some of our listeners questions. I don’t think so. Let’s hit the questions. I’m gonna pull them up, so I can see here, too.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Cool. And if you guys uhm—putting comments in the live chat  if you can kinda keep the questions kinda pertinent to the topic, it always helps and again, right now, for answering your question and you like it, give us a thumbs up right now, give us a share, give us a like. We appreciate it. We get really pumped and motivated coz of that.

Evan Brand: Should you—should you interview—uh, not interview—Should you introduce us, I mean I don’t know, maybe we’ve got new people that don’t even know who are these two guys talking about histamine all of a sudden. Should we briefly do that?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Absolutely.

Evan Brand: Alright. Tell us who you are.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, I’m Dr. Justin Marchegiani, a functional medicine specialist, a functional medicine Doc and yeah, I see patients all over the world and we work on chronic health issues, from hormone to gut, to detox autoimmune issues and you know, we’re trying to always get to the root cause so that’s me.

Evan Brand: Absolutely.  I’m Evan Brand, functional medicine practitioner and Justin and I been doing this— doing this hustle on the podcast for— for several years. We’ve got hundreds of episodes together and I also work virtually with people via Skype and phone. And we do the live thing because we get comments like this, so let’ dive in.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And we’re the real deal. We don’t get a script here. We’re, we’re on-the-fly taking our clinical knowledge and plugging it into you guys, so you guys, the listeners can get healthier which—which is our purpose here.

Evan Brand: Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So off the bat, couple things, uhm— I just saw here, Dale made a comment here about toxic mold. So yeah, I’ll connect Dale’s comment to toxic mold. But yeah, mold can definitely be a stressor that can fill up that histamine bucket.

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So of course, things that we use to help with mold is number one: good quality or filtration. If the house is really bad with mold, we got to get that remediated maybe even move depending on how bad it is. I never have someone move unless they can—they leave the house for a week or two and they’re like, “Oh my God, all of my issues got so much better!” And again, we gotta be careful because if you’re leaving for a week or two, it may be a vacation where you’re not –

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We gotta kinda like control those variables. Maybe you get a hotel room or you go somewhere else and you work outside of the house for a week. But if you notice significant improvement, there could be a mold issue. So air filtration can be good uh—do that little one to two-week test that I mentioned and binders such as modified citrus pectin, zeolite activated charcoal, liposomal glutathione these are all great things to use. A lot of the nutrients to help improve phase I and phase II detoxification. So, in my line, we use Liver Supreme or  antioxidant uhm— Antioxidant Supreme or  we’ll do Detox Aminos. which have a lot of those phase I and phase 2 nutrients. That’s very helpful there.

Evan Brand: Good. I just wanna double comment on that with the recent hurricanes that have hit people in Florida, Georgia, Texas, all the other states affected this mold issue is probably gonna be a lot bigger. A lot of people will probably try to remediate their old mold. Uh—one of my wife’s friend down in Texas posted a picture of her car, they got flooded in Houston. Her entire car, I believe it was leather, may be a fake leather, her entire car was covered in mold that look like a lab experiment, so—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh my gosh! Sounds terrible.

Evan Brand: So if there’s mold there, please please please don’t try to mitigate that stuff unless you’ve got like proper mask and all that coz you can make yourself sick.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Totally. Couple of questions here. “What are the best herbs for parasites?” Again, I would go look at some of our parasite podcast, we dive into it. Again, in my line, we have GI Clear 1-6 that we use for herbs uhm—to help knock down these infections. Evan has some similar ones in his line as well. So you can check out either Evan site, evanbrand.com or mine at justinhealth.com for more information on that by clicking on the store button.

Evan Brand: Yeah. I’ll hit the second part of the question there. “Are herbs usually enough to beat up parasites?” The answer is, “Yes” We do not prescribe drugs herbs is what we use for bugs and yes bacteria fungus, yeast, parasites. With the right protocol, the right approach, all the other factors, yes, you can successfully get rid of it. I’m a success story. Justin is a success story.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: And you know, thousands of people in our belts that we’ve been able to successfully eradicate parasites with herbs.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And just to highlight one thing, I think you put in there, but just to make sure any new listeners don’t assume it, we’re also factoring in diet and lifestyle changes into that because that is a massive effect on changing and making the immune system more resilient which has a huge effect on decreasing the chance of reinfection, too.

Evan Brand: Yup, well said, well said. Yeah, you can just take one magic pills, you got to do the hard work, too, which is putting a fork to your plate with good food on it, is organic as much as possible.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. 100%. And then, again, some people here talking about H. pylori and SIBO and eradicating H. pylori, uh—they still have stomach issues. So I’ll connect this persons question to the issue. But if you have SIBO and H. Pylori, does that go into your histamine bucket? Yes. So these type of critters and infections can increase that histamine bucket which can create more histamine reactions like Evan and I talked earlier and the breathing issues and the burping constantly, yep. Those are all symptoms of that and that can drive histamine problem. So we got to get to the cause of those infections and again, I refer you back to our H. pylori or SIBO podcast where we spent a full hour talking about that one topic.

Evan Brand: Yup. Well said. Get that test to get that treated. Rosalin, she has itchy skin, scalp. “Is that a symptom of too much histamine in the body always itchy?” What would you say? Sounds like probably.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  It could be a histamine issue, it could also be just a fungal issue, too. Seborrheic dermatitis is what affects scalp like that or a.k.a. dandruff and that can be fungal in nature. So I would just look at just the whole gut biome imbalance and/or histamine as a byproduct of that, right? Remember I gave you the a hammer and the thumb analogy, right? The— the histamine is just the collateral damage caused by the— the hammer, right? That’s kinda the whole idea. But, yes, it could definitely be— be part of it but more than likely, not the whole thing.

Evan Brand: Yeah. Kelly had a question, “Thoughts on the Biome test worth the money?” So Biome is a pretty new company who’s running stool testing. I met the guy who created the test. I’ve had a few clients who’ve had that run and they sent it to me. And the readout is— is terrible. I hope they improve on it, but currently, I’ve had a few clients send me their readouts, it’s crap. There’s a bunch of information but there’s no real action.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Not  actionable, right?

Evan Brand: Yeah. It’s not actionable at all. It’s just too much data. So, Kelly, I do not use and Justin. Neither of us use the Biome test. We use more functional test that are available through practitioners. Which I like the idea Biome give people the power to get their own testing, but we still are gonna use other companies like the G.I. MAP on our clients.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Exactly. But the biggest issue is like you get companies that are trying to give you like more information, they’re trying to like dazzle you with all this information, but then you sit back and you’re like, “What the hell can I actually do with it?”

Evan Brand: Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: What lifestyle change? What diet change? What supplement? What can I eradicate? What can I support or balance based on this information that will help the patient get better? That’s always the question. And the second question is, well does this test allow me to leverage my patient to make an action to allow them to get healthier? And if I don’t get one or two—if I don’t get an answer for one, primarily maybe two, then it just—it becomes not worth it. Kind of you know, glittery, you know, it’s very like, it’s kinda like glittery and flashy and like, “Ooh, look at this!” but it doesn’t really do much to me.

Evan: Yup. Should we get James’ question.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: Yeah. So James put friends nine-year-old sons on a new drug, which I looked it up here, Spinraza for spinal muscular atrophy. And it’s a brand-new drug looks like December 2016, it was the first drug approved for this disorder. Now  he’s having swollen lips and hives. Any suggestions will DAO help enzymes? That’s a hard one. Coz who knows if that’s a side effect of the drug or is that some type histamine issue.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Number one, the kids—Again I don’t know enough about this patient. So this is, take it with a grain of salt, this is a medical—medical uh—you know, uhm—advice. This is just me kinda talking here. So off the bat, kids notoriously have the worst, freaking diets in the world, okay? Especially if they go to school and they’re eating the school lunch and they trade in with their kids. They eat like crap. So number one, clean up the diet. And again, it’s hard because if you’re a parent who’s not eating healthy then it’s your house is full of crap. So first thing is the parent, get all the crap out of your house, create a really good environment, have really healthy snacks, get all of the crap out. So  get on the Paleo template to start. Do that for at least a few weeks to a month. That may fix so many of the issues, but in the meantime, yeah, can you had add  in enzymes like DAO can maybe hard to get them, but can you add in regular digestive enzymes and HCl, yes. Can you add in things like stinging nettle and bromolein and an acetylcysteine and all of the nutrients that I mentioned, yes, you can. So I would definitely add in all those histamine nutrients. Uhm— I would try maybe be going lower histamine, kind of a Paleo template and really get the diet a hundred percent and make sure they’re able to digest their food. HCl enzymes, all of those really good things and that’s a great starting point and then from there, if that still not helping, our only getting part of the way there, you want to really get a functional medicine doc to look deeper at what’s happening with the gut and things.

Evan Brand: Yeah. Well said. That was what—my next thing I was gonna say I’ve seen uh— little girls as young as three and little boys four, five years old with massive gut infections, parasites, and H. pylori and the rest of it. So it’s very possible that that’s going on in the gut depending on the history and use of antibiotics in the kid and things like that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. Patient here— my w— My mom has been diagnosed with lichen sclerosis, that’s an autoimmune condition that affects the skin. I’ve seen a handful of patients after that cream after cream the probably referring to hydrocortisone, a corticosteroid cream. It gets worse, any tips regarding the root cause of this? Yes. Autoimmune. Get the autoimmune stuff dialed in. I’ll use some stem cell types of creams like J Bio Serum, it’s one of the nice sell that I sell it works great. It’s got some stem cells in it, but you gotta make the diet and lifestyle change. Autoimmune template to start with and then dig in with all the functional medicine principles, next. One of the symptoms of histamine tolerance all the things that we mentioned earlier, from swelling to flushing to headaches to rashes. Anything you wanna add there, Evan?

Evan Brand: Yeah. Fast pulse or a rapid heartbeat. I’ve had women say they eat the food and then their heart starts racing. So could be mood issues, could be physical changes as well.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And the best way to test for histamine issues, in my opinion, is I just look at people symptoms and I connect them to higher histamine foods and we just pull those foods down a little bit and if their symptoms get better, then we know. I think for me the telltale sign for histamine issues, fermented foods and citrus fruits.

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Those are the big telltale for me. Coz they’re relatively healthy foods. No one’s gonna say like, “Oh, eating a grapefruit is bad.” You know having some low sugar Kombucha or you know some sauerkraut is bad. It’s relatively good but if you’re –if we’re doing that history and we see symptoms of those food, then we’re like, “Ooh, there probably is a histamine issue.”

Evan Brand: Yeah. Well said. See, what else we got here. I’ll read a couple off here for you. “Does everyone have some degree of histamine tolerance, don’t think I have histamine problems but not sure.” Well, if you say everyone— the average person is very unhealthy. Autoimmune diseases ramp it, the standard American diet which is the same in Australia, the same in Europe, the same and most developed countries are following kind of a standard American diet— processed grains, sugars, conventional pasteurized dairy, meats that are not organic, they contain hormones and antibiotics. So, yes, most of people are taking Ibuprofen and over-the-counter drugs, they’re taking steroids and doing in antibiotics. They’re getting them in the diet. They’re doing acid blocking drugs, they’re not sleeping well, they’re addicted to their smart phones. So, yes, so many people have things in their bucket. Then, yes, I would say everyone has a degree. Now, kind of our tribe that Justin and I are building of you know, healthy people that are doing as many right things as possible, they’re probably gonna have a less risk of—of histamine intolerance.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Totally. Hundred percent. Makes sense. And how about the bone broth stuff? I mean, I see, you know, I see uhm— lots of people with issue with bone broth and it kinda falls in and around the fermented food issue, right? If you’re having issues fermented foods or things that are slowly cooked, like bone broth, that can increase histamine and that can create a problems. So, again, we may hold off on the bone broth or cook it in a way where it’s cooked shorter. What kind of preparations for bone broth do you do to help lessen it? I know there are some out there.

Evan Brand: Well, I’m spoiled. I haven’t been making it because I’ve been using Kettle & Fire Bone broth that they sent me, so I literally does have to throw it in a in a pot and heat it up. I’ve been fine. I know they slow simmer or slow cook theirs for like 48 something hours like it’s an extremely long simmer time. So I don’t know how that would affect somebody that they were sensitive. But for me, I feel quite well with that. I don’t have any symptoms.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: I don’t know. I haven’t had to modified it at all.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. So a couple, you can skim off the scum of the top of the bone broth. You can skim that out. Uh—it may be helpful, you can also do just the shorter brew maybe an 8-12 hour one. Uhm—that can be good. You can also just try buying some maybe your higher-quality or they may have a way of you know, producing it that produces low histamine like the Kettle & Fire. So that could be some good options. But again, if you have a food that we consider to be healthy like bone broth or Kombucha or fermented foods and you can’t respond to it, you can always put that food aside. That’s kind of like that’s like you’re free-histamine test, right?

Evan Brand: Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So you can work on the gut. You can work on a lot of these hormone and diet things. And then you can add that thing as your free test add back in the future and that’s a good objective marker to see how you’re doing with your gut. And if it’s starting to heal, you may be able to handle more of that yet.

Evan Brand: Yup. Well said.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I believe my link should still be active Kettle & Fire sponsored my show for a while. They’re not anymore but they should still be giving people 20% discount so you can try it. If you do, evanbrand.com/chicken you should be able to get 20% off— so try it out. I think they pay me like a buck if you buy some, but that’s good bone broth and definitely—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We’ll support the cause. I know the products—only products that we ever mentioned on our shows are things you believe in. So again, you guys gotta know that we’re coming from a place of authenticity. So if you want to support us and we reference something, just know that it’s got to go to the filter of actually being a high-quality product and we actually have to use it on ourselves and our friends and family for us to recommend it.

Evan Brand: Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We appreciate that support.

Evan Brand: Another question here. “What herbs do you suggest for fungal issues?” Once again, I’m gonna say it depends. And I know Justin would say the same thing because we’re gonna make our protocols based on what you’re up against. So if it’s bacteria plus fungus plus yeast plus parasite, that’s gonna be far far more heavy hitting protocol. If it’s just fungus by itself, which is not too common, because most people have a lot of issues together, you may be able to get away with some garlic or some oregano or like Justin mentioned earlier, Berberi or the barberry or the—

 Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup. Berberines.

Evan Brand: Berberines. That whole can be great and we’ve got several formulas if you just stalk our stores a bit look on justinhealth and look into his categories and you can check out mine, too. We’ve got many, many different combinations of herbs. Could you go and technically just buy a couple herbs and just you know, shoot a shotgun approach and maybe get success, yes. But I would of course, advise you to get tested because if you have fungal issues, you probably have other issues, too.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And here’s one like clinical pearl that I’ve kinda find over the years. I’ll throw it out there for everyone listening. How I know fungal issues are more of an issue for— for some people than others, is number one, we’ll see the fungus on a stool test, which will be helpful. We can see either multiple kinds of yeast or fungus where it’s Geotrichum, Microsporidia, Candida, etc. We’ll see different kinds of species. But also on a organic acid test, we’ll see the uhm— D-arabinose, which is a metabolite of Candida but that also kinda means it’s gone systemic. It’s gone more more systemic coming up the urine. So if we see something like the D-arabinose is more of a systemic marker in the urine and we see in the gut, then we know that fungal issue is—is a lot deeper. Now a lot of fungal issues tend to be driven by other issues like H. pylori, other parasites are bigger but some people just gonna have a rip-roaring fungal infection. We’ll see it systemically via the organics as well as on the gut, too.

Evan Brand: Let me ask you this. I mean let’s say you see somebody with a really, really gross fungus fingernail like it look like their fingernails about to falloff because it’s so infected. Would you assume that person has got a massive amount of fungus in the gut and it’s manifesting on the nail on the—on the fingernail?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: To a certain degree, I would say that’s a good, you know, you can’t hurt yourself faulting that, coming to that conclusion. But again, if you knock out some gut stuff, it can be hard for those herbs and for your immune system to get all the weight at that peripheral tip of that nail to knock out the infection. So sometimes we got topically hit things coz they just got to travel a long way so we’ll either topically hit our herbs there or we’ll uhm—have to do some kind of a soak to hit it as well. Even if we were to address the gut, it may not be enough to make its way down there.

Evan Brand: Coz I’ve seen that. I remember it was a cashier or somewhere, I saw a guy with his finger like his index finger, the nail was literally about the come off and it was completely—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: There are different degrees, right? There’s like, “Oh, I had a slight fungal nail and I knocked it out with some oregano and a soak and just a few—in a few weeks.” There’s somewhere it’s like nail is incredibly like sclerotic and—

Evan Brand: It was extreme, yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Almost falling off and then like totally dis_ that’s like the highest degree. I mean it’s just like, “Oh, it’s a little bit rough and then it’s got a slight yellowish hue.”

Evan Brand: No. I’m talking when it was like—it look like if you flicked it, it would fly off.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s one of the extreme.  And then the other extreme is maybe– is a light, it’s kinda like a little bit sclerotic like it’s rough.

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And if you were to file it, it would get smooth but it would grow out of the bottom again rough. That’s how you know it’s fungal. And typically it’s slightly yellowed. And again, it can go really dark and brown, like dark yellow brown the longer it’s there.

Evan Brand: So what is that? When is that extreme? I mean how in the world would that happen? What sets the stage for that since we talked about—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Just chronicity. It’s just deeper and deeper and deeper and deeper into that nail bed.

Evan Brand: Yeah. Wow! Last question here: “What does it mean if a rash shows up only on the legs and not other parts of the body?”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I have no idea. Uhm—again typically the body’s just gonna push stuff out. And again, if things are in the body systemically, where or why the body pushes it out there, beats me. Maybe that’s a stronger area for the body to push it out, hard to say. Again, as things get worse and worse, problems tend to be more systemic, so I wouldn’t worry about why it’s there. Uh the fact that it’s in a local spot is better. I would just want to make sure there’s nothing constant— contact dermatitis issue where things are in contact in that spot. And when nothing is contacting, I wouldn’t worry about it. We’re treating the body systemically as a whole. We’re really work on lymphatics and the detox so everything will get better.

Evan Brand: Yeah. Well said. And I mean—in a rash in the leg, that could be so generic. I mean, that could be something from your skincare products. That could literally be allergy to parabens or something. My wife—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: A contact dermatitis issue where something is actually touching it.

Evan Brand: Right. Yeah. My wife she had a reaction on her legs and it had nothing to do with diet or histamine or anything. It was just uh—uh she had a sample of the skincare product and it must had some ingredient in it that we didn’t know about and she had a rash on her leg. So don’t—maybe don’t freak out, don’t think too deeply. It could be something that simple.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And my baby just had some baby acne. My wife is freaking about it a little bit. But it’s just you know, he’s just metabolizing her hormones. So he’s getting over it pretty fast uh— which is good. But again, things happen and if it’s a contact issue like control all the vectors of what’s going on your skin. And then second is like, what’s in your body and just try to decrease inflammation.

Evan Brand: Yup. We got uh—you got time for one or two more?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Sure. Let’s do it.

Evan Brand: Alright. James he said, he’s not allergic to nuts and seeds but every time he eats peanut butter, he always gets a fungal rash around his glute region.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Don’t touch peanut butter, man. I mean it’s known to be higher in aflatoxin, it’s a legume as well. So that could be some gut-irritating stuff in it. Stay away from that. Switch over to high-quality almond butter instead and let us know how that works.

Evan Brand: Yeah. There’s a brand I use—what is it? Cadia. C-A-D-I-A. It’s like the only organic almond butter I found that’s less than 20 bucks a jar.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I actually created my own brand called Justin’s. You’ve seen that brand at Whole Foods?

Evan Brand: I did. Good job!

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Nah, I’m just kidding. It’s convenient to say it, but, no. Not my brand.

 I won’t take credit for it. But I do like Justin’s. Uh—I will do that a little bit sometimes. And I do like just the whole food 365. I’ll get the organic. It’s also a cool one. Its’ really expensive! It’s called, NuttZo, in an upside down container so like the lid is on the  bottom and it’s upside down kinda thing. That’s kinda cool. Really expensive, but it’s really a nice treat.

Evan Brand: Here’s another question. Uh—little bit off-subject. How is holy basil an adaptogen for stress?” Uh—we’ve done—I could go so long on this.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: That I’ll have to shut myself up right now. You just have to check out our other episodes on adaptogens  because I love them and Holy basil, __rhodiola, ashwagandha, all the ones you mentioned.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Good.

Evan Brand: We do use all those. They’re great.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup. I think it’s good. It’s good to kinda rotate through some or use a combination to use them individually and have a rotation to it. I think that’s great. Evan Brand: Yeah. “Is water sounding in ears related to histamine?”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: The first thing I would look at are just food allergens in general. Uh– especially mucus-producing food, so like dairy and things coz anytime you get more mucus that could go in the ear and that can create issues. Just gluten and inflammatory foods to begin with. So, yeah. Definitely kinda hit that overall  Paleo template, you’ll hit a lot of those things out.

Evan Brand: I think that’s it. We should probably wrap it up. We’re gonna turn into a pumpkin here.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I know.

Evan Brand: If there’s any last questions please ask us.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: How much salt did you ingest for every liter of water you drink replenish lost—I mean, I would just do half a teaspoon to a teaspoon twice a day of high quality mineral base salt. So like my favorites, Real Salt, or you can do Celtic, or Himalayan, just really good minerals that you’re gonna put back into your body. I like that.

Evan Brand: Yeah. I saw a new study about sea salt. I posted it up—I think I put it up on my twitter account where all the sea salt from US and Europe was contaminated with micro particles of plastic and so I’d support your idea of using the real salt which is gonna be an inland sea as opposed to the ocean sea salt that’s contaminated. Dr. J, do you think Tom Brady is on a low histamine diet?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, let’s breakdown Tom Brady’s diet. He’s eats 20% meat. There’s a lot of means out there. If Tom Brady goes vegan, no—you’re not vegan if 20% of what you eat is meat—not even close. But, as a qualifier there his meats are organic and grass-fed, so there’s really good quality meats. He avoids nightshades, tomatoes, potatoes, eggplants, peppers. He eats lots of vegetables. He eats very little starch. He eats a little bit of fruit. So I would say relatively speaking, yeah. I mean, his kinda thing is, “Oh, I’m eating acid alkaline kinda thing”, right? That may be the result of—that may be what he thinks he’s doing, but my thing is he’s really just doing an anti-inflammatory diet.

Evan Brand: Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’m not worried about acid alkaline. If he is worrying about so being alkaline a hundred percent, he’d avoid the meat, right? But we know that meat has a lot of important nutrients and it’s balance the meat with a lot of the veggies that are very alkaline. I don’t worry about that so much. Most of the acid your body’s gonna get is from inflammation. Inflammation is like 1000 times more acidic than actually eating an acid-base food. So I’m more worried about the food’s inflammatory qualities that I am about whether it’s acid or alkaline. But, again, grains are 10 times more acidic than meat. So if I can leverage that conversation or that idea with the patient, I’ll say, “Hey, if you really wanna be more alkaline, at least meat’s 10 times less acidic than grains.

Evan Brand: Well said.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I would think he would be indirectly not his goal but again, anyone that’s on anti-inflammatory diet indirectly, would be lower histamine outside it may be citrus and fermented foods and such.

Evan Brand: Yup. Well said. Well, we’ll wrap this thing up. We hope you enjoy it. If you have more questions, more ideas, more things that you want to hear us cover in terms of topics, reach out. We both got contact forms on our website. Send as an email.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Subscribe. We appreciate it. Give us a share, give us a thumbs up.

Evan Brand: Yeah. Justin— Justin’s over 30,000 on the YouTube, man. So great job! Keep it up. Hit the subscribe button so that we can keep pushing up this content in helping you guys achieve the most optimal health on the planet to help us get more people healthy we really appreciate health on the planet.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Help us get more people healthy. We really appreciate it. Healthy people make healthy decisions. They’re better parents, they’re better employees they’re better bosses, they’re better everything, so—

Evan Brand: Yeah. I saw Mark Hyman he was talking about autoimmunity and how it’s twice or even up to 10 times more expensive to take care of a sick patient with autoimmune disease and so we guys want you to be healthy because to save our population from collapsing. We’re kind of in the midst of healthcare collapse. Basically, the health of society falling apart. We’re trying to make a healthy dent in the universe by helping you guys. So thanks for the feedback. It means a lot to us.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it, Evan. Alright, man. Great chat today. I appreciate it.

Evan Brand: Take care. Bye.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You too, take care.

 


 

References:

https://justinhealth.com/products/aller-clear/

https://justinhealth.com/products/liver-supreme/

https://justinhealth.com/products/antioxidant-supreme/

https://justinhealth.com/products/detox-aminos/

https://justinhealth.com/products/gi-clear-1/gi-clear-1-2/

https://justinhealth.com/products/j-bio-serum/

https://www.kettleandfire.com/

http://mycadia.com/

https://www.nuttzo.com/

https://realsalt.com/

http://www.celticseasalt.com/

https://www.seasalt.com/gourmet-salt/himalayan-salt.html

Organic Grass Fed Meat

Immune System, Tapping Technique and GI infections – Podcast Live with Dr. J and Evan | Podcast #131

Dr. Justin Marchegiani and Evan Brand engage in a lively and informative discussion about their recent clinical successes with their patients using the functional medicine approach. Listen to them as they dig into the root cause of their patients’ issues and turn chronic and seemingly complicated problems into success stories.

Know about the tapping technique which involves turning something negative into a better, positive thought. Learn more about GI infections, the bacteria or parasite that may be involved, as well as the tests and treatment options that are proven successful in the functional medicine world. 

 In this episode, we cover:

 03:50   Immune System, bacteria, and infection relationship

 15:50   Tapping Technique

 19:17   Treating Hypochloridia

 24:10   GI infections

 28:34   Enzyme Tests
 
itune

 

 

youtuve

 

 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We are live on YouTube here. Podcast live on demand. Also, live here on Facebook. Evan, how are you doing, man?

And again, Facebook people you gotta click on the link here uhm—I’ll put in the comments to see Evan’s pretty face and go back and forth on this. How we doing, man?

Evan Brand: What’s going on? I’m feeling really good today. We’ve got a blue skies, the trees are blooming which they probably—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Awesome.

Evan Brand: a year ago in Austin. So I’m enjoying myself.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very good. So we got podcast on demand. So anyone wants to write in some suggestions as we chit chat here, we’ll figure out what exactly we want to talk about moving forward.

Evan Brand: Yeah. And I might as well post a link over here to my Twitter page and see if uh—people are paying attention over there. That way, if they’ve got questions, they can get them answered here.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it. Totally makes sense. Same thing, anyone on Facebook, too, every  chimes in first we can get this thing moving. But let’s uh—just talk about some clinical successes in the last week with patients. Any updates from you, man?

Evan Brand: Yes. So interesting update is uh—there’s a female client that comes to mind and she had seven, I believe, I have to go back at here stool test and count. But I believe it was seven infections and this is a combination of two parasites which—let me just pull it up, that way, I’m not just shooting into the dark here, but—Uhm— with these infections, we started a gut protocol and symptom improvement was seen. She was having a lot of irritable bowel symptoms uhm— running to the bathroom. So she showed up with H. pylori, Blastocystis Hominis, Entamoeba and Fragilis and Proteas  and Citrobacter. Somehow, cal protectin level was still low  which is intestinal inflammation where—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: –I look at but I was surprised. And so anyhow, we put her on this protocol. And this is like 8 weeks.  And the H. pylori while it’s still positive, instead of two viral factors, now she’s got one viral factor. The level of H.Pylori has dropped. The Citrobacter is completely gone. The Proteus completely gone. The Blasto is completely gone. But we still got Entamoeba. So there’s still the parasite and there is still the H. pylori there. So we’ve got work to do but yet, we’ve seen 3 or 4 things disappearing. So I think what the takeaway message is from me is that the bodies gonna heal in an interesting way. It may not heal everything at the same time. Some things may be easier to kill. Some things may disappear first, but you gotta heal yourself especially your gut, your microbiome. You gotta heal these things in layers. And that’s what we’re seeing here.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. So typically with a lot of patients that have chronic issues is there are some underlying stress, right? Emotional, physical, chemical stress but even deeper above and beyond that, there is some level – there’s some level of  infection that’s deeper that creating inflammation even though it didn’t show via calprotectin or it’s just creating leaky gut. And the whole leaky gut mechanism is getting the immune system fired up. The more the immune system is fired up, it’s just an energy suck for  your body. It’s like uhm—let’s say guests in you guest bathroom that you never go into your house. And they just leave the water on. Just a little bit—little drip, drip, drip. And then you get your water bill at the end of the month, and you’re like, “Where the heck did that bill come from?” And you’re like, “Oh, yeah. The faucet’s on.” But it’s like that with your energy resources. When got these bugs, it really—when the immune system is overactive. And even just a leaky gut, right? The more your immune system is overactive, the more it’s gonna suck your energy dry. That’s why when you get sick, the first symptom you get when you get sick is what? You get a lot of fatigue and malaise coz the immune system is sucking resources. Go ahead—

Evan Brand: I wanna hear uh—a recent case from you, but first I wanna ask you the question that I get asked all the time. And the answer really doesn’t matter because we need to fix the root cause no matter what. But people often ask well– chicken or egg? Was it that ma—my immune system got taxed first? And then I picked up these bacterial pathogens or these parasites? Or did I pick up the parasite and the bacterial pathogens and then that that set my immune system? What’s your take? Can it go either way?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. So typically it’s one of two scenarios, right? Typically someone gets exposed to a very high amount of infectious debris, right? Parasitic—parasites. So you drink some really bad water, you to go Mexico, you have really bad meal or at a foreign country, you get the Bali belly, so to speak. And then you’re overwhelmed with all of that infectious debris and then there’s so much of it that it compromises your immune system, you get diarrhea, you have a lot of gut inflammation that creates malabsorption. That malabsorption puts stress on all of your glandular systems and then you spiral downhill. That’s scenario number one. So just the infectious—the infection was so overwhelming, it just threw everything else downhill. Scenario number two is there some type of immune compromisation  that’s happening. Meaning adrenal stress, poor diet, poor sleep, or poor diet and lifestyle habits, low nutrient density. The immune system’s kinda a little bit weaker underneath the surface then you get exposed to some of these infectious debris at smaller micro levels that are in the food. And eventually makes its way to the system and creates inflammation.

Evan Brand: So yeah—so let me—let me clarify there. If we’ve—If we’ve got diet, lifestyle mostly dialed in, but let’s say people are cheating with gluten, for example. They still got intestinal permeability going on. You can still have good class, good sleep, blah, blah, blah. But if you’ve got just a simple thing like leaky gut, for example, you could potentially be more susceptible to pick up these infections regardless of whatever else is dialed in.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I mean—here’s the deal with leaky gut, too. If you’re creating leaky gut, and then there’s some research, you know, on the non-celiac, gluten sensitivity side of the fence, that looks at these foods. Even if you’re not like reacting to a it, like symptomatically, and even if you’re not like having like IBS -like symptoms,  bloating, you know, gas constipation, diarrhea, that gluten can still create leaky gut. Where the undigested food particles in the gut can make their way into the bloodstream and create stress. And then the LPS that comes in there along with that, that’s the— the bacterial debris can get into bloodstream and create a lot of mood issues as well. So you can still have leaky gut and not risk from gluten— and still not respond to gluten in general.

Evan Brand: Yup. Yup. I just posted a post on uh—Facebook which I think might be a slightly controversial which was I wrote this little bit of a letter and I put kind of like these five things that have happened over the last year or so where people have said, “Evan, I’ve ditched psychiatrist or I’ve ditched my psychologist or my marriage counselor, or my conventional doctor because of functional medicine.” I kinda wrote the reasons why of how if you lower inflammation, you may need less adjustments at the chiropractor, for example. If you heal the gut, you start producing your neurotransmitters optimally, you might not you’re your antidepressants anymore, so you might not need your psychiatrist. Or if you heal your adrenals, you’re not gonna snap at your children anymore, so therefore you’re not gonna need the marriage counselor that is telling you need to stop yelling at your kids. And how basically how functional medicine can literally, not intentionally, but it’s just a side effect is that we can replace these other industries. I’m not saying these other industries are bad for mental health care or anything like that. But a lot of times, this is not root cause medicine. And my wife and I went out you with a friend of ours yesterday and she said she had a lot of stress, she had to put her dog down and she called up her psychiatrist and said, “Hey I need help, I’m freaking out.” What does he do? He prescribed her 60 Xanax and says, “Here’s your Xanax bars and take these.” And I told her, I said, “Listen, your anxiety and your stress from this issue is not a Xanax deficiency.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.

Evan Brand: How about we do some emotional freedom technique. We start tapping. How about we cleanup the diet? And then before we left, out the parking lot, I had her do the quick coherence technique, the Heartmath, like the heart focus breathing.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: And focusing on someone that she loved and we got done with it, and she said, “That was weird.”  I said, “What happened?” And she said, “I got tingly and warm.” I said, “Oh, it worked.” And she said, “What happened?” I said, “Well, you just took yourself out of fight or flight that you’re probably stocked in which is causing you to be dependent on Xanax and now we’ve pushed you into that parasympathetic rest and digest mode.” And she feels better. And this is what this is all about. Uh—a little bit of uh—off-subject uh—, but I just wanted to mention to people, check on my Facebook post and you’ll read about what I’m saying. I’m not saying these other uh— practitioners out there are garbage. What I am saying is that if you’re not getting a practitioner to focus on root cause, even if they are psychiatrist, if they’re not a root cause psychiatrist, then what the hell are they doing?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s all about resources, right? And in functional medicine world, we’re trying to help enhance your resources. So just like someone with more money in their bank account can buy more things, well if we enhance our mental, emotional bank account via healthy and diet and lifestyle functional medicine principles, we have more resources to deal with stress in our life. Whether it’s family, friends, being a parent, being present for our partner, just being able to do the hobbies of a hobbit—hobbits—uh—

Evan Brand: Haha

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: The hobbies and the habits that we have going on in our life.  I got uh—I guess I’m missing my uh – Lord of the Rings movies there. Yeah. So—It ‘s all about resources, right? So we have to make sure that we have enough resources in our system so we can allocate them toward these stressors. And I always tell my patients, “Have you ever tried dealing with stress on 0 night sleep? or “Try doing your taxes the next day when you’re getting like three hours of sleep?”  You’re just  not gonna be able to handle it. You don’t have the resources. So everything we’re trying to do is let’s test the resources of our body systems, let’s look where the hormone’s at, let’s look at where the gut resources are at, let’s look at detox and nutrient resources are at, let’s support them and let’s work on fixing them.

Evan Brand: Well, the analogy I like to use is we’re just using a big spotlight. Because a lot of different industries and health care, what they do is they use like a little laser pointer or like one of those tiny little keychain flashlight. And they shine something real dimly into one corner. And you’re like, “Oh, Justin looks like we found something. We found some anxiety issues, here’s the Xanax.” But instead, we come in with a giant spotlight and we’re like, “Whoa, look at the left corner of this microbiome. We got parasitic and bacterial infections, which can steal your nutrients, can mess up your blood sugar and cause anxiety. Look over here,  we’ve got some adrenal issues. You got spiking of cortisol that’s gonna need to be addressed.” And then we shine the spotlight over here, “Oh, take a look at our detox pathways on the organic acids, you’ve got trouble over here.” And “Oopp, we shine the spotlight behind us, here’s mitochondrial issues. This is why you’re so fatigued.” And that’s the—I think that’s the greatest analogy. It’s a little laser pointer or a little small keychain flashlight, which is just pinpointing one industry of psychiatry or psychology or whatever versus exploring everything. Which is why for you and I, it’s tough for us to become the blank guy. You know people out there, “the thyroid guy” “ the detox chick” “ the bone broth chick” You know what I mean? It’s really gonna be tough for you and I to just say we’re the blank person because I don’t want to limit myself. I wanna let everyone know it is all encompassing.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: And if rest and niche yourself down, I think it’s a bad thing.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Like from a marketing standpoint, right? Marketing is just telling the truth attractively. You know it’s good to have the niche because you wanna reach the people that have special conditions. Because if like, my specialty is thyroid. Number one, I have—I have or had a thyroid issue. It’s under control. Autoimmune thyroid issue. So I’m more passionate about that issue. But again, to treat  a thyroid issue, you have to be able to treat all of the systems. So it’s kind of a mythology, like you don’t just ever treat thyroid, you treat the whole thing. But you may mark and put information out there that’s gonna resonate and speak to someone with a thyroid issue more. But again, the underlying issue is from education and clinical standpoint. We’re addressing the key underlying surface issues and the deep root issues as well. So we’re never ignoring it. We may speak to someone uhm—more specifically and get into the more nuances of that condition, but it all comes back down to the foundational stuff that we always talk about.

Evan Brand: Right. I would say my specialties would be— it’s become parasites really. I mean, I’m seeing so many each week and it’s just so fun. I guess because I had parasites.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You had a parasite, you.

Evan Brand: Uh—Yeah. And also depression, I mean because depression is what got me into this whole thing. IBS and depression in college, I mean, like I told you before, I had to figure out when I went  into a college class, where’s the bathroom. Coz I have to get out in the middle of the class to run to the bathroom.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: And so for me, depression, IBS, parasites, you know, those are all linked together—the whole gut-brain connection. And I really am empathetic for people that have struggled with that because it’s so common and if you diagnosed with IBS, that’s a pretty generic diagnosis. And unless you’re with functional medicine practitioners, you’re gonna get an acid blocker, an antispasmodic—

 Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Absolutely.  

Evan Brand: — or some other drug and—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well actually, you were diagnosed with IBS, right?

Evan Brand: I was.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And you use the antispasmodic, you used the medications that helps with the gastroparesis. You know—

Evan Brand: Well, they never –

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: They even do that—

Evan Brand: Well they never got to use it. They try. They wrote me the prescription pad but I denied all three of the drugs.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And the thing is, too, we can also use natural medicines for a lot of those things. That may not fix the root cause, right? There’s root cause medicine and there is using natural medicine in a way that’s gonna help alleviate the symptoms that’s gonna up regulate physiology so things work better. But we have to still be investigating and digging to the root cause, right? So we’re dealing with someone with gastroparesis or low motility, we may add in things like ginger. We may add in things like carnitine. We may add, you know, higher amounts of mag citrate to keep that uhm—migrating motor complex moving. But we are still digging in deep. We’re still making the diet, the lifestyle. We’re still enhancing digestive nutrients, uh—hydrochloric acid enzymes. And then we’re digging deep for the infections. And we’re trying to lock in those diet and lifestyle habits, right? The supplements are great because they can give us that symptomatic relief while we continue to dig over here to the root cause. So as long as you have, you know, that  four pace envision that addresses some of the symptoms without the side effects, you know of some of the drugs, which may have more side effects than what you’re treating, and then working on the functional medicine plan, I think we’re in a really good place. 

Evan Brand: I agree. Yeah. I actually got a good—good success with that IB Synergy product from designs which get Bonigut in there. It’s got the 5-HTP. I had a guy with just super bad IBS and I said, “Man” I mean he was critically, critically stricken with both diarrhea and constipation just alternating every other day.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: So I have him going with that 5-HTP Bonigut blend. And he got better. Now we start to wait for lab results but yeah—I mean  sometimes we will do some of the quick fix of band-aid situations to fix things, but we still got to work backwards. I guess to answer these questions uh—should we answer the question about the cancer question here or shall we just make a whole show on the future?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. We’ll do a whole show on that. I’ll get some experts on. I got Dr. David Jocker is coming next month as well. He was in the truth about cancer series. And we’ll go on ketogenic diets and we’ll talk more about therapeutic ways to address cancer outside of just the natural chemotherapy. So we’ll hold that one that—we need more time for that.

Evan Brand: Yeah. Agreed. Uh—Samuel asked, “What is the tapping technique? Can you show us? Well since most of our audiences are gonna be audio listeners we’re not gonna take up the air time to show you the technique, but the best resources—EFT (Evan-Frank-Tom) EFT.mercola.com and you can just view the different acupressure meridians that you’re gonna tap. But then also, you’re gonna learn about the affirmations that you can use for emotional freedom technique and that’s something Justin and I use all the time.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think it’s helpful. I’m—I’m gonna just give it 15 seconds of airtime here, so—just—I do two hands coz it’s adding it’s more efficient. But you just tap the  inners part of the eyebrow, the outer parts of the eyebrow, under the eyes, I do under the nose, and the bottom part of the chin the same time. And then I do both collarbones. So I do this, and you can go top of the head and tap midline. So I do two hands coz I just feel like you get more stimulation. So I go here, and I’m just thinking about whatever is pissing me off, my wife, I just think about it.

Evan Brand: Haha

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I kinda give it a number. So if I’m a t like 6/10 regarding irritation, I just think about it. Whatever that issue is, whether it’s like, you know, the person driving  in front of me is so slow  or whatever. And I try to knock that 6 out of 10 so that 10 is the worst.  6 is like 60% to being at the worst. I try to knock it down to a4 to a 3. And so every round—every 2 rounds or so, you kinda just check back in and see if you knock it down. And you go as you kinda knock everything down to a 3.

Evan Brand: Yeah. And we have—I—I start at the top of the crown which I usually like—many ways—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You can do that. You can start there, you can end there.

Evan Brand: Now do you do the sides? I know Mercola, he’s big on the side of rib cage under the armpit.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I do that, too, sometimes. It’s just wasn’t good for a video.

Evan Brand: Yeah. So you criss cross?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I do two at the same time just coz it’s stimulation.

Evan Brand: No. I mean you criss cross your arms so the underarm’s like this. I do like a monkey.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Haha

Evan Brand: And then—and then finish with the wrist. I typically finished by tapping the insides of the wrist together then doing the affirmations. So even though I’m angry, or even though I’m anxious, I deeply love and accept myself. But you gotta say the affirmation verbally. I tell people if you can, if you’re just embarrassed, then don’t do it. But why be embarrassed? Nobody—nobody is paying that much attention to you.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. That depends, too. Like you can do this stuff, and you can kinda say like if you’re at—let’s say, if you’re lying in bed and you’re just really stewing on something and your wife’s next to you and you don’t wanna wake her up, then you can just kinda think it in your head. And then you can just, you know, do the affirmations, tap like this.  And then you can tap here, and think about the issues.

I like them to end, though, with a positive thing. So you can end with something positive. So then I just go into like, “What is it that I want to manifest?” So I’m going into right there. I’m thinking about whatever I’m gonna try to create or produce in my life, I just tap it while I’m thinking about it. And the whole idea of tapping is you’re just stimulating various meridian systems that have been mapped out via acupuncture system for thousands of years. And really what it’s doing is it’s neutralizing the negative response that’s stored in the limbic system or in that subconscious of your—more in the psychological side of it. And you’re trying to kinda rewire it so you can get a good pattern there instead. So then, naturally that reflux is to go back to the better thing and not to the negative thing.

Evan Brand: So if you do affirmation about the bad part, would you do like an affirmation about the bad part and an affirmation for a positive?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes. So I start off with the negative and just try to lessen—lessen it first.

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Coz if you’re—feeling negative, it’s really hard to be positive when you’re negative so I try to decrease the negative to about a three. And then I go into the positive because then, you are in a better place to deal with the positive, right? It’s kinda like when someone tells you to relax and you’re pissed off, like relax, calm down. You just wanna punch him, right? Like, “No, I’m too wound up, come on.”

So I wanna get that dialed in and then now I’m relaxed, now I can rewire it and create some positive things.

Evan Brand: I like it. I like it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So calm down first, and then work on manifestation.

Evan Brand: Should we answer a couple of more questions here?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Let’s hit it, man. Let’s hit it.

Evan Brand: Solam asked, “How long does it take to heal hypochloridia?”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It totally depends, right? If you have emotional stressors that are unresolved ore you’re eating foods that are incredibly inflammatory, maybe never. But if you’re making the root causal changes and your managing your stress, and you’re fixing the underlying gut stuff, I would say within 3 to 6 months, you have a really good chance of not needing hydrochloric acid to digest your food. But again, everyone is different. A longer—the longer the issues been going on, the more severe the infections, and the more infections that are layered in there, I’d say longer, up to a year, at least.

Evan Brand: Yeah. I’ll just have my two cents to that, too. If you had a previous history of a prescription, as a blocker’s proton pump inher—inhibitors are now it’s open to counter like the Xanax or the Toms, or anything like that, or—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Evan Brand: Or if you’ve had H. pylori which we’ve chatted about many times, then I would say it may lengthen that time, too, to fix that stomach acid issue.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: The longer that gut’s has been worn down, the more the immune system is revved up like you get patients are just supersensitive to every little thing. Like I can’t even put in an enzyme, I can’t even put in our apple cider vinegar or lemon juice or the smallest fermented food sets them off. It’s really hard and you’re looking at a couple of years to really dive into it because the immune system is so revved up and it’s so ready to attack the smallest invader that it’s so hard to put things into help and heal it because it’s looking at everything as a foe not a friend.

Evan Brand: Right. We really, really have the baby step in those cases so that’s why—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. Yeah. I mean, just like you heal, with you know, food is medicine there, you go really slow and you do lots of things in broth form, in soup form so it’s – so it is so palatable. There is very little digestion that has to happen. And typically one supplement at a time and one nutrient at a time, titrate up from low to high. Even if it’s something that they can handle, if they go high dose, off the bat,   their immune system just freaks out.

Evan Brand: Well I wanna hit on something you just mentioned which is if we’re talking 1 to 2 years, it takes extreme patient—extreme patience for patients and clinicians because for us, that is a very intensive case for us to take on.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.

Evan Brand: And you know, maybe this is to toot our own horns, maybe it’s just calling out the obvious that we do take the time, you know, with people we’re working  with. Sometimes it maybe 30-45 even an hour-long call for a follow-up just to take these baby steps. Whereas, let’s jus say some of the clinicians that we’ve seen out there, it’s too cookie-cutter approach and they don’t have the mental bandwidth or capacity for empathy to baby step this people.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: So it’s here’s your cookie-cutter protocol, good luck.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: Where with us, we’ve really, really, really gonna get super details.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: And so this is why if you go and you buy like a leaky gut online program or some other type of program, and you get limited results and you get to us, we’re not gonna be surprised if you suffered through that, and you didn’t get a good result. Because at the end of the day, that’s why  Justin and I haven’t created  online courses at this point because it’s—it’s hard for us to sleep at night thinking that we’ve created a program that’s too cookie-cutter. We’ve really got to figure out a way that we’re gonna be able to work in all the minutiae and the small details and the variations—variation A, B and C, D for different people.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: So if someone uh—packages something up all beautiful and says, “Oh, it’s $297 and all your problems are gonna be healed.” Uh—please be a little bit skeptical  of that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I agree. And I’ve talked to you about a patient that I had today that email in that was dropping out of care. And we try to always set realistic expectations. This person just had her labs reviewed a month or two ago, and had multiple parasitic infections, severe adrenal dysfunction, HPA axis dysfunction, and then a lot of issues on her organic tests. Uh— detoxification issues, mitochondrial issues, and we just started with simple adrenal support, made diet and lifestyle changes and she had some— some side-effects so we try to cut things down, go slower. And we’re gonna kinda reconvene and work on supporting detoxification, but person had dropped out. Now, the problem is, to have expectations that things will work off the bat when so many things are wrong like that, expectations are incorrect. So  a lot of people they have preconceived notions even if you spell it out to them and you let them know, “Here’s where we’re at now, here’s where we’re going.” They forget because they—they want it done now. And they think because things didn’t work in that initial uhm—in that initial experience, that there is no way to fix it. So continuing to harp on patients in managing their expectations, even though they have a lot of stuff they’re projecting from past failures, we kinda have to get through it. Make sure expectations are real and that make sure they know, “Hey, here’s where we’re going now. Here’s where we’re going next.” These things ahead that may have to be dealt with for us to really see great changes.

Evan Brand: Yup. Well said. We got another question here.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Let’s hit ‘em.

Evan Brand: Let’s hit Steve’s question. After all GI infections are eradicated, how long does it take the gut to fully heal? All my infections are gone, but I’m still dealing with IBS, leaky gut and issues after H. pylori.” I’m gonna hit on this first Dr. Justin Marchegiani, if you don’t mind.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup. I know you’re gonna say it, by the way.

Evan Brand: Okay. So – haha if—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: If you say it—If you say it, I’ll—I’ll tell you that.

Evan Brand: Okay. Alright. Please. Alright. So here’s what I’m gonna say. You say all your infections are gone, but you’re still dealing with IBS, leaky gut, and issues, I would like to know what test was this that says all your infections are gone because I bet all of your infections are not gone.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes! Whoo! I knew it. Yeah. You’re totally right.

Evan Brand: Haha

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. You’re totally right. And then also, just making sure that you have the digestive nutrients on board to help heal the gut lining and the digestive support to break down the food and then I would make the food more—more palatable right now. I’d be looking more at the GAPS or an SCD or more of a soup or broth approach that makes the food really easy to take in. No raw veggies, uhm—try to keep it really palatable so the body can access it without much stress.

Evan Brand: Alright. So the beauty of the Internet, Stevie says—Stevie replied and he says, “DRG” Well, uhm— Justin–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s missing a lot of them. It’s missing a lot. You gotta do the DRG with the GI map. I a—I never do the DRG by itself for the most part—always both. You gotta do both.

Evan Brand: Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And if there’s still an issue with the DRG and the GI MAP, I want them go for the  41 side-by-side.

Evan Brand: Yup. Agreed. So, Stevie, not that—you know, we’re not diagnosing you. That’s not what these calls are for. But, hey, Justin and I have seen a lot of false negatives with DRG and some other test out there. So potentially some stuff going on. And I would like to add a couple of points about like the—the issues, the leaky gut type stuff. You know, make sure you are doing some of the easy supports, too. You know, chamomile is great. You can do chamomile in a supplemental form. You’ve got chamomile teas, uhm—you’ve got L- glutamine. So there are some leaky gut supplements that why your til—still trying to figure stuff out, you can still be taking support of nutrients in the meantime while waiting for retest.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. Totally. Let’s hit  the uh—last question there by—E Center Riley. See here, just diagnosed with Hashimoto’s, TPO and TGB bodies, 465 is that high? Eliminated the foods, gluten, dairy, soy, balance in blood sugar, hard with 5 kids. What should I focus on next? So 465 is definitely high. The LabCorp reference range for TPO is 34. Anything 34 above is considered positive—I think it’s above 34. 34 below is considered positive. And anything about 20, for me, I considered to be subclinical. So that is high. Anything above or around 500 is definitely high. I’ve seen patients at 2000, though. I’ve seen patients that go from 2000 to below a 100. Now, my goal is to get people—If I were you, I’d like to see a 70 to 80% reduction in that. Again, maybe you were higher before you made those changes. So I’m not sure if it was  gluten, dairy, soy. That stuff was cut out and then you saw the drop. But either way, uhm—getting enough selenium in there, 400 micrograms of selenium, addressing the underlying infections, things like H. pylori, Blasto and Yersinia can be coming to increase the antibodies. And then making sure the adrenals are looked at. There’s a strong adrenal-thyroid connection and a lot of people who have thyroid issues also have adrenal issues. And remember, TPO is a microsomal or essentially it’s uh—intracellular microsomal antibody that helps bind the thyroid hormone together. So if you’re making antibodies to that, it’s gonna prevent that thyroid hormone that I—Iodination process from occurring. So making sure we have the adrenal support there because the adrenals help produce cortisol. Cortisol is an anti-inflammatory that’s gonna help with the inflammation. And with the TPO there uhm—you could potentially have increase in hydrogen peroxide, especially if there’s small amounts of iodine getting in there. So get them the selenium will help neutralize that hydrogen peroxide into H20. High quality H20 which is uh—not gonna be as inflammatory.

Evan Brand: Well said. Yeah. And so uhm—Isabella Wentz, I just did podcast with her a couple of weeks ago. Actually that was my last uploaded episode. And uhm—we’re talking about bacterial infections, too. So you mentioned some of the parasites and she’s seen the same thing the parasite but also the bacteria. The Klebsiella, the Citrobacter, and all these autoimmune triggers has been bad guys for uh—these Hashimoto’s situations and these antibodies, so—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, look for the bacteria, too, and you can definitely fix this stuff and you can make significant progress.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. I mean one person here, wildlab access, “How do you test for various enzymes?”Number one, if you have gut stress, you probably have low hydrochloric acid. And if you have low hydrochloric acid, you probably have low enzymes. Why? Because hydrochloric acid is important for acts of—for converting pepsinogen to pepsin which is the proteolytic enzyme. Hydrochloric acid lowers the acidity of the chyme, which is the mixed up food in the intestine. That inten—that food that chyme that goes into the small intestine which the acidity then triggers the pancreas to make bicarbonate, it also triggers CCK that then caused that the gallbladder to produce bile that also stimulates the pancreas to make light based trypsin and chymotrypsin and all the enzymes that come down. So if you have enzyme issues, you also have hydrochloric acid issues, but we can also assess it by looking at enzyme markers, like elastase, too, which will uhm—look at that in the DRG or the GI MAP test.

Evan Brand: You better get that frog out.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Frog out. It just attacked me, man. I’m like, Ugh—

Evan Brand: Alright.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: My water—so uh—yeah. Elastase, I think it’s elastase 1 is the enzyme marker we typically look at for uhm— low enzymes. But typically, just assuming that we have digestive stress, let’s assume it for sure.

Evan Brand: Yeah. I mean that’s the same—the same answer that I would say for the leaky gut. I had people say, “Oh, can you test me for leaky gut?”  It’s like, “Yeah. We can go to Cyrex and spend 500 bucks if you want to, but based on your symptoms, I guarantee there’s intestinal permeability. You’ve got XYZ. And we can—we don’t need to spend the 500 bucks on that test. Save your money for the organic acids, your comprehensive stool panels, the GPL-TOX, maybe heavy metal testing. Save your money for that stuff that you can’t really guess on.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Absolutely. I agree, man. Well, anything else you wanna hit off the bat here? I mean I think—I had some really good successes last week, too, with some patients that had chronic pain, chronic mood, chronic energy, hair loss. And I mean—just really simple things. We—we fix their hormones, this person has autoimmune thyroid, uhm—hypothyroid as well. T3 was super low, it was uh– T4 to T3 conversion issue, dysregulated cortisol. They had a lot of malabsorption and they had a couple of infections and we just—we just took them down the map. An then just everything first time around, uhm—just knocked in place. I mean it’s like you swing the bat once and it’s connected. It’s gone. Those were the patients where its like, “It’s just so rewarding coz it’s just—it’s easy” And then you have  some patients where it’s a lot more trial and error and digging in. So it’s nice to have those home runs every now and then.

Evan Brand: Oh, man. I—so I had a home run earlier with this guy that I got off the phone with name Dion. And he was on an inhaler. An asthma inhaler.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: And also I believe he was taking uh—allergy medication, like a prescription allergy medication.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: Maybe it was one or the other. He alternated or he was on the inhaler something. But he was on prescriptions for allergies. And all we did is we cleaned up the diet, we’ve addressed some gut infections. He had candida and I believe a couple bacterial infections. I don’t believe he had parasites. I have to look back. But I remember a couple of infections, fix the gut, uh—supported adrenal’s basic adrenal support, some adaptogens. And I talked with him today and he said, “Evan, I’ve not used my medication in the last six weeks. And everything is blooming here right now. All the trees and plants and everything are blooming and normally, I’m debilitated. He said, “I’m completely fine.”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Isn’t that awesome?

Evan Brand: How in the world just by working on the gut and adrenals am I not allergic to the environment anymore? It’s just like, “Oh, it makes me feel so good.”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I see that all the time, too. And hydrochloric acid is one of those things that’s really great with allergies, too. You notice that?

Evan Brand: Ain’t that weird? I mean since digestive enzymes, I told him, I said, “Man, we’ve gotta keep up digestive enzymes.” And then actually I am gonna send him a bottle of some of the like natural herbal anti-histamines, just in case. Because he started sneezing on the phone. I’m like, “Whoa, maybe you’re not all the way out of the water yet. Have this on hand, in case you need it.” So the coresatin in, the rutin, some of those–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hesperetin

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: The things I love for allergies: number one, just really get a good air filter. I used one by Advanced Air. You can see that at justinhealth.com/shop Look at the approved products. I like it. It’s good. Uhm—and then your natural anti-histamine degranulating compounds. In my product, Aller Clear. Stinging Nettle, coresatin, and then you’re gonna have like some vitamin C in that, some potassium bicarb as well. So those are really good. And you can go up to eat. The nice thing about it, just not gonna be drowsy. So you can get that allergy support without getting the drowsiness and then really make sure the diet is anti-inflammatory. Up the hydrochloric acid because HDL is really important with low—with allergy. It’s gonna make a big difference.

Evan Brand: Yup, Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Ginger. Ginger is phenomenal, too, for allergies. Really good.

Evan Brand: I love ginger. So it’s a great nutrient. I’d do teas, ginger kombucha, there’s so much you can do with ginger.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, yeah. By the way, right after this, I’ve got a new grill. So I’m gonna go out, I’m gonna grill some grass-fed hotdogs, right? And then I’ve got some sauerkraut with mustard. And I’ve got a nice ginger kombucha, I’m gonna open up. So I’m really excited for my lunch break today.

Evan Brand: Nice. What kind of grill? Is that one of those  pellet jobs?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I actually—I got a new Webber just because it’s—it’s—my other one was 10 years old. And then the knobs are starting to go. So I got a nice, little Webber Spirit. So it’s great. It’s got three burners. Love it. And uhm—I got a smoker that I use sometimes for ribs on the weekend just like a 4-hour job. So it’s good to have a day or an afternoon to kinda be at home to enjoy that one but—Yeah. So love my grilling. Try not to get things charred. Try to keep the heterocyclic amines and the polyaromatic hydrocarbons to a minimum.

Evan Brand: Agreed. Agreed, man. Cool. Well I don’t have one on my end.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You wanna have a share?

Evan Brand: No.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hope you guys are liking these calls here. We wanna do more. We wanna connect with the listeners. Our purpose really is to serve and help people get their health back. If people want more feedback, or want more kinda like rolling up the sleeves and specifically diving into your case, go to notjustpaleo.com or justinhealth.com, click on the schedule buttons. And we are here to help you out. Evan, anything else, man?

Evan Brand: That’s it. Have a great day people, drink clean water, get rest, reduce stress, be grateful. It’s gonna go a long way.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And people on Facebook, I’m hoping we can get Evan on here soon. We gotta just  figure that out. So hopefully, soon we’ll do that. So Evan, great chatting with you, man. We’ll talk soon.

Evan Brand: Take Care. Bye.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Bye.

 


References:

https://justinhealth.com/products/aller-clear/

https://justinhealth.com/products/advanced-pure-air/

http://catalog.designsforhealth.com/IB-Synergy-60

EFT.mercola.com

notjustpale.com

http://notjustpaleo.com/227-dr-izabella-wentz-hashimotos-protocol/

Thyroid and Nutrient Deficiencies Q & A – Podcast #125

Dr. Justin Marchegiani and Evan Brand dive into an exciting discussion all about thyroid. Listen carefully as they engage in a dynamic conversation with the listeners and share some valuable information regarding their functional medicine approach on issues relating to thyroid; its connection to adrenal health, gut health, nutrition, and infections.

Learn about the hyper- and hypo- symptoms related to thyroid issues. Find out how other conditions like leaky gut and other infections are linked to thyroid health. Gain valuable information on different tests used to assess thyroid health and rule out other conditions contributing to thyroid issues. Increase your awareness about the different sources, like foods, supplements, and metals which all impacts thyroid function.

In this episode, we cover:

04:19   Thyroid and its connection to adrenals and leaky gut

12:50   Testing for Autoimmunity

16:42   Infections and Thyroid Health Connection

21:35   Cortisol Lab Test for Adrenal Issue

28:36   Thyroid Symptoms and Assessment

32:23   Iron

37:20   Gluten and its connection to leaky gut

54:23   Mercury

58:25   Iodine

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Dr. Justin Marchegiani: YouTube as well. Any questions, feel free to type them in. Today’s podcast will be on thyroid. Evan, can you hear me okay?

Evan Brand: I sure can. You sound good.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Awesome, man. We are live. What’s going on, man?

Evan Brand: Oh, not too much. Like I told you, somebody in France has had a fun weekend with my business credit card. So uh – besides that, everything is good.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool, man. Yeah. Well, at least you got a capital one card, so you’re pretty well protected, right?

Evan Brand: Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s awesome. So we’re live on Facebook and YouTube. Again, better to be on YouTube, my opinion coz you get to see Evan and myself. If you’re watching me on Facebook right now, we’re a little compromised. We only got my feedback. You’re not gonna hear Evan’s side of it. So feel free and check out YouTube.com/justinhealth to be able to see Evan’s pretty face and be able to get some questions there. But we will answer questions on Facebook Live, too.

Evan Brand: Cool. So today we wanted to talk about thyroid. There is many lab test out there that you can get. Still, conventional doctors are not running the lab tests that are important, though, some of these antibody markers, some of the reverse T3 markers. Maybe you should briefly chat about that just since people maybe on Facebook. Talk people through why is this happening? Why are these conventional doctors not running these other important thyroid markers? Why is it just TSH and some of the other boring stuff?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Great question. And again, today we’re talking about thyroid and we talked about this topic a lot, done a lot of videos on it. I have a book coming out on this very shortly as well. So I’m just kinda do a brief overview. Feel free and check out Evan’s page not just Paleo.com and his podcast from more info as well as mine. We’ll give you more info here today. Hopefully we’ll be able to have a live interaction. But Evan’s question is for the Facebook live listeners. “Can we get podcast live on YouTube, too?” is the question about conventional thyroid issues versus functional thyroid issues. And this is a big difference, and most people they go and get help from their conventional physicians on matters of thyroid issues. They think that their conventional doctor is ruling them out for thyroid issues and they may, if it’s an extreme thyroid issue. You know, very, very high TSH, extreme thyroid swelling, uhm – maybe while hyper-symptoms if their grades are on the hyper side, or if they have a lot of thyroid destruction, or goiter things. They may get picked up by conventional testing, but many patients they aren’t getting picked up on conventional testing because they’re kinda in no man’s land. Conventional medicine looks at things like an on and off switch. You’re either healthy, right? The light’s on. Or you’re unhealthy, the light’s off. And we know in functional medicine world, that light switch is more of the dimmer switch, right? The light may be on halfway, right? You’re halfway healthy; or another way to look at it, you’re halfway to not being healthy. But it may not be all the way off. Maybe just flickering a little bit. And unless you’re all the way off, what’s gonna happen is they’re not gonna see anything wrong with your health issues regarding your thyroid. And they’re not gonna make any recommendations for interventions. And that’s the biggest problem. With thyroid issues, looking from the conventional to the functional medicine realm. And also, you have to look at the tools that they have right there. One tool – most part two, you’re gonna have some kinda surgical intervention or you gonna have some kind of uhm – pharmaceutical intervention. None of which typically fixes the root cause of what’s going on. Especially when we understand that thyroid issues are 90% autoimmune in nature. I’d say at least 50-90%. So we know if it’s autoimmune, and we don’t fix the underlying cause of why the autoimmunity is there, right? Then the underlying mechanism of the antibody is in the immune system attacking the thyroid tissue is still happening in the background.

Evan Brand: That’s terrible. I mean we’ve got thousands of people at this point who we work with, where they’re on thyroid drugs, and they still feel terrible. And I’ll go back and say, “Hey Doc, look, give up my Synthroid or other pharmaceutical, I still feel terrible.” And they’re just gonna up the drug more and more and more. So it’s like you’re jamming this gas pedal down, but you are not figuring out what’s the issue in the first place. And so for us, we’ll always gonna be looking at the gut; looking for infection; seeing what could be going on; why is there some type of attack going on. And then also looking at adrenals, too. And figure out what’s the adrenal thyroid connection. Maybe you could brief people on that a little bit? How someone with adrenal issues could have thyroid issues and vice versa.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. So Evan, your question was looking at adrenals thyroid issues, we also have a listener question as well, talking about thyroid and gluten sensitivity. I’ll try to intertwine with the two answers. But again, adrenals are really important because you have cortisol production coming from the adrenals, which is important for managing stress and inflammation. Also, generally energy via blood sugar. Also, cortisol – is they differ healthy thyroid conversion. So if we have two high cortisol, or if your stress response is too high, we’re kinda in a Stage I adrenal issue that can block thyroid conversion. So we have this T4 thyroid hormone that gets converted down to the T3. And T4 is relatively inactive compared to T3.  So we have to make this conversion. There’s a lot of things that are needed for that, whether it’s selenium, or zinc, or vitamin A, or other nutrients to help make that conversion. But cortisol, from a hormonal perspective, is also needed. So if we’re too low on our response, right? We have this HPA axis, this regulation, the brain, the agent P, the hypothalamus and pituitary are hypo functioning. They’re dysregulated like a broken thermostat in your house – doesn’t turn on the heat, or turn on the air conditioning. That same thing is needed to help make that conversion from T4 to T3. So we have depleted adrenals that can strongly, strongly be an inhibiting factor of thyroid conversion. And also, if we have too much stress, one of the mechanisms the body does to regulate the stress response, is to make more reverse T3, which is essentially like taking uhm – the clip by the – your gun and putting blanks in there. So they kinda – they fit into the – into the magazine. They fit into the cartridge, right? But they fire, but that then you don’t get the same metabolic effect. You don’t get the increase in energy; don’t get all of the hormonal benefits; you don’t have the warmness and the increased blood circulation; and you don’t have the degradation of cholesterol and other hormonal byproducts. So you can see that the adrenals are intimately connected. Now answering the person’s question here on gluten. Gluten is really important because that’s a big strong – That’s a big stimulator of leaky gut. So gluten exposure can drive leaky gut. What it does is it increases zonulin, which unzips the tight junctions in a lot of patients, even people that are necessarily having a response to gluten. It shows that there is still uh – intestinal permeability that’s happening. And the more food particles that get into the bloodstream, the more LPS is in the gut, the more that can unzip the gut, the more – allow more food particles in there, and create more immune stimulation. And it’s also inflammatory in the gut, too. And also can create this concept known as molecular mimicry, where the immune system sees the surface proteins, and it can mistakenly identified it is the thyroid, and it starts attacking the thyroid tissue, creating more inflammation. And that can cause these thyroid follicles. So still, that hormone is creating unbalanced levels.

Evan Brand: And this could all come from gluten exposure, you’re saying?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It can all come from gluten exposure. Gluten is one strongest stimulators of leaky gut, along with distress, along with LPS, which is a compound produced from bacterial overgrowth, right? So the worse stomach acid, the more stress we have, the more essentially we’re not breaking down our food, the more we’re gonna have bad bacterial overgrowth that’s gonna increase LPS, that’s gonna unzip those tight junctions even faster, which is gonna create more immune issues, more food allergy issues. Because think about it, right? The immune system shouldn’t be getting revved up to deal with food; shouldn’t be getting revved up to deal with the digestion. So the more that’s happening- well what that means is that your immune system is going in overdrive. One of the major reason why people are when they’re sick – think about it. Because their immune system sucks up so much energy. So the more you’re revving up your immune system by just consuming food, you’re gonna be constantly tired. And that’s just gonna drain your adrenals, and drain your thyroid, and increase that thyroid autoimmune attack.

Evan Brand: Yup. Well said. So I mean, we got the zonulin. What’s the link there between the zonulin and LPS? So are these connected at all? Or are these going up and down in relationship to each other?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yes. So the more zonulin you have, typically the more leaky gut you’re gonna have, right? So vitamin D is actually a zonulin inhibitor. So the more zonulin you have, the more leaky gut. So LPS will increase zonulin. Infections will increase zonulin. Gluten will increase zonulin. And that basically, if this is like Parker jacket, you’re wearing that’s kinda like unzipping those tight junctions and then basically food particles can get in there.LPS particles can get in there. When LPS flows to the brain and makes it way up to the brain, leaky gut, leaky brain that LPS can create inflammation in the brain which feels like brain fog, which feels like mood issues, which feels like depression, which feels like anxiety. And this is really hard for a lot of people. Getting back to Evan’s question on gluten and the brain, is people may have a gluten issue. Think that well gluten has to cause digestive problems diarrhea, bloating, gas, reflux constipation, diarrhea. But it may not – It may be causing depression, anxiety brain fog, poor memory, poor uh – just word recall. And you may have a gluten issue, but it may not be even because by – you know, you may not see it because it’s not those conventional symptoms. And again, that same thing is gonna create thyroid issues, too. Coz that same mechanism that opens up the lining of the blood-brain barrier and the brain, also affect the gut, which then creates that more autoimmune thyroid attack.

Evan Brand: Well said. And there’s a lot of people that justify eating gluten to us. Whether it’s like organic wheat, or they’re doing some type of like sprouted wheat, or something like that. But gluten is gluten, and even if you’re not celiac – now there is research that shows that celiacs are gonna have30 times higher zonulin levels than a non-celiac. So massive, massive leaky gut in the celiac person in comparison.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Evan Brand: But still, we could even talk about the study. It’s Scandinavian Journal of Gastroenterology. It showed that gliadin, which is a gluten protein can affect zonulin even in people without the gene for celiac.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Evan Brand: And so basically they said, “All gliadin, regardless of what – whether you are celiac or not, it’s still going to activate zonulin, therefore leaky gut, therefore this LPS, these endotoxins are gonna get in there.”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.

Evan Brand: Which is crazy. And – and I love that. I love that the science because then you and I aren’t the bad guys when we’re telling people to get rid of gluten. It’s like, “Look, here is the research.” Yeah, maybe you don’t get a – acne from gluten, but you still causing leaky gut, regardless. I love that we can actually prove that and it’s not just up for – it’s not just our opinion coz we’re the nutrition guys.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s the key thing that you mention there, Evan. The zonulin and the gluten can trigger the leaky gut and you may not necessarily have an autoimmunity, and the question is the more stressed you become, the more compromised you become, the more your toxic burden, your stress burden, the more  your – the physical, chemical, emotional stress buckets get full. That’s where your body’s ability to adapt to stress really becomes inhibited. And again, the biggest mechanism really is, leaky gut. Even if you’re not necessarily gluten sensitive, you may be getting a leaky gut, which is adding stress to that stress bucket, right? It’s decreasing stomach acid; it’s decreasing enzymes; it’s increasing the ability to have food allergens; it’s increasing transfer infections and SIBO.Because the more your immune system is weakening the gut, the more that force field, that IgA gets lower, and the more critters can come in. So, yeah, 100%. And again a lot of people – I’m not a big fan of gluten because its, one: it’s hard to break down, it’s heavily pesticide, it’s low in nutrient density. A lot of the anthropological data shows that it’s been consumed only about 10,000 years ago, and the people that are consuming it typically have lower bodies – body stature, smaller in uhm – skeletal structure and increased risk for osteoporosis. Again, hunter gatherers tend to be more forgers uhm – starchy tubers, berries. Those kind of things, and obviously, meat and bone marrow. You study how the brain evolved. Really, it was the hand axe that allowed us to carve into bones and access bone marrow, and then creates spears to kill animals, and access that nutrients to grow our brains massively. Omega-3 is fat from the fish. So all of those things were huge in evolving our brain. Now, getting back to thyroid-We got a couple questions over here from the listener’s here on YouTube. So I’m gonna list a couple of. Couple is “how do you test autoimmunity?”Number one: kinda tying it back thyroid. We would look at TPO, or Thyroid Peroxidase antibodies or anti thyroid globulin antibodies; we’ll look for immune attack on the thyroid tissue. Also, we can look at TSI, immunoglubin, which is a marker for Graves’ disease, which is also a thyroid condition; or TSH receptor antibodies for the hyper- TSH receptor antibodies for the hyper; TSI for the hyper; and then TPO and thyroglobulin antibodies for the hypo. Now again, you can have the hypo antibodies, though, and have hyper symptoms initially. So you can kinda be on both stages at one point. So just kinda keep that in mind.

Evan Brand: And then more time, just so people are clear to that. Seems a bit confusing.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: A lot of people that start out with hyperthyroid – or sorry – hypothyroid antibodies, low thyroid function antibodies, the TPO and thyroglobulin bodies, even though those are markers for a hypo-, Hashimoto’s, they can progress into hyper- symptoms initially because your thyroid follicle have about four months of thyroid hormone stored in it. So what that means is, you can spill out that thyroid hormone many, many months before, even up to a year or so, before you actually get depleted and go low. And that’s where the TSH gets really high. TSH will go high as the thyroid gets depleted, but in the initial attacks, in the first year or so, you may feel more hyper- symptoms even though it is a hypo– Hashimoto thyroid mechanism that’s happening.

Evan Brand: Uh, got it.  Well said. Okay. So, people may self-diagnose themselves with hyperthyroidism, your saying that it could actually be a hypo-caused by Hashimoto situation that’s going on. They just don’t feel the full effects yet coz it’s a new – it’s a new attack. Is that correct?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. So the symptoms they may have is irritability, anxiety, mood issues, difficulty sleeping, heart palpitations, uhm – they may have like tired but wired kinda feeling. Those are the big things that they’re gonna have. I would say, yeah, the anxiety is gonna be a big one. Difficulty sleeping is gonna be a big one. Where the hypo- symptoms star to come in, again you may still have anxiety; you may still depression. The big differences is you’re gonna start to see the hair thinning because thyroid hormones are needed for hair follicle growth. So the outer thirds of the eyebrows go; the hair starts to thin on top; cold hands and cold feet it starts to happen. You may start to see constipation issue, too. You may start to see your triglycerides and your cholesterol go up. Again, infections can cause constipation, too. Uh – increase insulin can also cause increase cholesterol and triglyceride, too. So there’s other things. But that’s a general indication, is the cold hands, cold feet, the fatigue, the hair loss, the constipation and the increase in lipids you’re gonna see. That’s why you wanna test full thyroid panel, which is gonna consist of TSH, brain hormone, T4,inactive thyroid hormone (free and total), T3, which is converted peripherally 20%, and 80% throughout the body (free and total) and obviously you T3 uptake. You can look at thyroid binding globulin, which can go up or down if you have PCOS or on birth control. And then also reverse T3 and all the antibodies I mentioned.

Evan Brand: Yes. So I’ve also16:19read about another one that I’ve not seen used very much called TRAB, thyroid stimulating hormone receptor antibody, but it says that the antibodies are only ordered when someone is hyper- . And a positive result for that usually means great. So I’m not seeing that one that often, though.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s just a different name for I think the TSH receptor antibodies. Like TPO also has a like a name called,microsomal antibodies. So again, typically it’s the same names. So TSH receptor antibodies that’s probably another name for that, just like the microsomal is the same name for TPO.

Evan Brand: Uhh. Okay, got it. Now should we talk about – Is this is the time we should talk about the link between infections and thyroid health? Because people that were looking at, we’re not just gonna look at thyroid, we’re gonna look at the gut, too. And the average between us is about 1 in 3 of having infections. You know, every third person is gonna show up with infection. Sometimes even – you know those weak. Sometimes it’s 9 out of every 10 people has a parasite or other infection.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. So we have a few questions coming on the uhm – YouTube Live board here that we’ll kinda tie in. But yes, so the big infections that can affect thyroid and can increase that thyroid autoimmunity: H. Pylori, okay, Yersinia, Enterocolitica, blasto, E. histo. Those are gonna be the big ones that are really gonna affect the thyroid. Even Lyme has a specific amino acid pattern that can create autoimmunity to the thyroid. So for sure, those are the big ones. You know, there’s been study showing that when you eradicate H. Pylori – It’s Italian study out there, that thyroid antibodies significantly drop. I have a video on blasto, right? Blasto infections are resolved, antibodies drop. Same with Yersinia, infections drop. As you attack Lyme, antibodies drop. So that can be a big stimulator and drive more leaky gut, more zonulin, more immune stress, which then creates more stomach acid and enzyme environments, which creates more adrenal stress, more thyroid stressed, and more nutrient deficiencies which perpetuate everything. So you can see, if don’t get to the root cause in this, that’s fine. You can go see your conventional medical doctor to make sure your TSH isn’t elevated, right? But in the end, you’re still gonna be suffering. And that’s why I have so many patients then I know you do as well that have all these symptoms. And I’ve seen a doctor for over a decade and are just tired of it. Alright, you know, this can’t just be my thyroid and all that we done is on 50 mics or 100 mics of Synthroid and that’s it. We can’t do anything else. They know there’s something more and that’s why they are reaching for people like you and myself, Evan.

Evan Brand: Yeah. Well in toolbox, it’s just not there, right. I mean, it’s not their fault. They’re just doing all that they’ve got. That’s the only tool in the – in the shed. The surgery or wait till you have some type of disease, or some big nodule, or a goiter or something crazy. And now, okay, now we have to do surgery.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And a lot of people are talking about, “Well, what if you don’t have antibodies coming back on your thyroid?” My personal take on that is, above 40% comeback false negative. So it’s negative, but it could be positive. So what does that mean? Well, typically I’ll run the antibodies on someone at least three or four times before I say that they probably don’t have – they probably don’t have an autoimmune issue – at least 3 or 4 times. Now, the gold standard is a biopsy. Still going with a needle aspiration, and they poke it into the thyroid, they’ll if the tissues have any lymphocyte infiltration. So there’s an immune response going into the thyroid. So you can also have – you know your conventional physician palpate it. They’ll typically reach around your neck. So here’s my Adam’s apple, so it’s down just maybe a centimeter, and then out 1 or 2 cm. So it’s right here. And then you can typically run your finger right across it, then you can touch and push from one side to the other, and just feel the surface. See if it’s smooth, and then you can swallow, and feel that structure. And you can feel like a little nodule or a little bump and that’s possible. A nodule can typically mean autoimmunity or can mean an iodine deficiency. You can go to your conventional physician for that. I talked about the needle aspir –aspiration, but I don’t recommend unless you have – must you really want to know a hundred percent. The next more conservative approach would be a thyroid ultrasound to see if there is any swelling at all. Yeah. And that will be – those will be – My first line of defense would be, “Alright, let’s do your antibodies.” Second line would be ultrasound. I typically wouldn’t recommend the needle biopsy unless you are more worried about the cancer side of it, right? If I’m more worried about cancer then we may do that, or we may do a thyroid scan. But again, those are more invasive. I really only want to see those if we’re trying to rule out cancer. Coz typically the ultrasound and the antibodies will be the best. And we know, uncontrolled Hashimoto’s can lead to cancer, right? It increases your risk of cancer. So everything we’re doing is actually decreasing someone’s thyroid from progressing to a mandibular, papillary, follicular cancer. That’s – that’s the goal. So regarding that piece, everything we’re doing is gonna work either way because we’re mitigating the gluten in the food; or reducing the infection load; or upping the nutrients to help lower antibodies and help the thyroid convert; or making all diet and lifestyle changes and getting rid of the infection, which are gonna help improve the thyroid conversion, activation, and  the upstream signaling downstream.

Evan Brand: Early on in the chat, someone asked, “How should one read the cortisol lab test for adrenal fatigue?” “What numbers indicate the issue?” That’s gonna depend on the lab. Justin and I really like Biohealth, especially because they’ve got a brand-new test that were using now, which is six-point cortisol test. So any practitioners that are using a four-point cortisol test on you-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm. Yup.

Evan Brand: They’re outdated. They need to get with the –the times. With the 2017, six point is the new one. And how can you read the numbers? Well, typically there’s gonna be like a high patient line, a low patient line and then you would wannabe right in between those sandwich. And it’s gonna depend. So other labs are gonna have different – you know, different markers, different reference ranges. So for us to read a reference ranges to you, will be really boring. Uh – but basically long story short, you wanna be perfectly sandwiched in between those two lines. And it’s very rare that we see somebody in that. Most of the time we’re gonna see a low cortisol picture. And this is a low-free cortisol.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Exactly.

Evan Brand: They’re gonna be low pretty much all day. And this is for most people. And so, then we have to keep digging deeper.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Evan Brand: We don’t just throw them a bunch of adrenal support and say, “goodluck” We gotta figure out what – why is this happening?  Is there a lot of emotional stresses, or chemical stresses, or thyroid issues, or parasites? And these are the other pieces of the puzzle.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. So you made some really good points there. So with the adrenal, the car test, the adrenal, the uhm – the cortisol-adrenal response, especially in the morning. Cortisol starts off low in that first initial bit of waking up, and really pops up in the first half-hour to one hour after waking. So Evan and I are looking more at those types of test to see how that cortisol awakening response is happening in the morning. Coz cortisol is so important for thyroid activation to prevent T3 pooling, which is T3 not getting into the cells, as well as to prevent reverse T3 up-regulation, right? Reverse T3 is the uh – the blanks. The blank bullets that fit into the magazine that prevent the real bullets from getting fired. The real thyroid hormone being the real bullets, upregulating your metabolism. So those are the things that we’re looking at. And I agree, cortisol, and low cortisol, and low thyroid can intimately feel the same, right? We have patients sometimes that will feel like, “hmm, do they have a thyroid issue or adrenal issue?” We’ll run both test and we’ll see their TSH is, let’s say: 1, 1.5; T3 is at 3, 3.2; and their conversion is okay. But we’ll see, “Oh, yeah” their cortisol awakening response is terrible. Their cortisol is low; their DHEA is depleted. If they’re female patient, their hormones are off, right? So we’ll see. We’ll be able to  differentiate the two. And if you’re just going based of a symptoms, and trying to self-treat yourself, it’s gonna be really hard. You start going in one direction over the other. You may not get better. And a lot of patients, they instantaneously wanna go get their thyroid supported and treated first. The problem with that is, you increase thyroid hormone levels, and you already have lower cortisol. You can actually lower your cortisol even more, right? Just go google uhm – Addison’s disease, which is cortisol failure, right? – Addison’s disease, contraindications – And one of the contraindications you’ll see on their thyroid hormone because thyroid hormone can actually lower cortisol more. Coz think about it, right? Thyroid increases metabolism. The more your metabolism is increased, the more you metabolize through your hormones as well. So if we lower our hormones, and you are already at super low cortisol to begin with, you can actually feel worse as well. A lot of people feel worse when they just go after their thyroid and it can really create more problems.

Evan Brand: Wow. Now that you say that, I’m picturing a woman last week who, she was on Levothyroxine for a very long time. Her cortisol levels were like the lowest I’ve ever seen. So I wonder if it’s that drug that’s contributed to her cortisol being even lower than it would have been without the drug. What do you think?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. You can see patients that they go on their thyroid support, and they start feeling worse. And it’s just – it’s really difficult because if they’re seeing a functional medicine practitioner, they may lose faith in that person, right? And – and just say, “Hey, I’m just gonna keep on doing what I’m doing. I’m just gonna go back on the Synthroid.” So you have that aspect there, right? And then uhm – also have the fact that you know, what’s primary? A lot of people have in – the adrenal issue is the more primary issue. And if we start treating that first, then we may get the patient feeling better, which then creates more compliance. The more compliance, the more – the more the patient’s gonna follow through on diet, on lifestyle, on addressing infections. And that gives us a better chance to leverage the patients to do the right thing to heal.

Evan Brand: Well said. And plus, if the adrenals get back online, then we know that that conversion from T4 to T3 active is gonna be better. So they may not even need to go to the “thyroid support” if all these other root causes were the biggest thing. I mean it’s a parasite and an adrenal problem. If you fix those two things, is it possible you can get away with never going into, “Hey this is your thyroid program now. We just have to fix the other pieces.”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Absolutely. So uhm – looking at that piece, you’re hundred percent right. I see so many patients, we’ll measure their thyroid temperature like their basal temperature. And again, for basal temps: 97.8 to 98.2 °F is gonna be where you wanna be for your armpit axillary temperature; and then98.2 to 98.6 °F is oral temperature. And typically do that in the morning before you get out of bed. And also do it sometime in the afternoon before you have lunch, and kinda do a general average. And again, a lot of people will be relatively low, and they’ll start to see their temperatures start going up uhm – as we treat the adrenals. One of the big things we see with the adrenals is we see an erratic temperature. The temperature is kinda bouncing around. Anything greater than .3°F can be – can lead to be a sign of a potential adrenal issue via a temp.

Evan Brand: Let me ask this. Let me ask this with you. So you’re saying, .3 difference. So that would mean if you woke up one day and you tested your armpit temperature, let’s say you were 98° flat in your armpit before you got out of bed, then the next day, you’re at 98.3. To you, that’s gonna signify thyroid and adrenal issues. Is that right?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So we went from 98 to 98.3?

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. So it’d be greater than .3 So if you’re 98-98.4 and we’re consistently seeing this back-and-forth oscillation, so we’re seeing 98, 98.4 or 97.9 and it’s constantly bouncing back and forth greater than .3 that could potentially mean an adrenal issue, right? And because it’s erratic, but at a good level of temperature 97.8 or higher. So we typically mean of an adrenal issue. If we see it low and erratic, let’s say, 97, 97.4, 96.9 to 97.5, then that would potentially be an adrenal and a thyroid issue. And again, temperatures aren’t perfect, right? Like when we assess thyroid, there’s three indicators we use. We use subjective, which in my opinion is the most important. How do you feel? Do you have a lot more hyper- or hypo- symptoms, right? Hyper- symptoms being anxiety, palpitations, mood issues, tired but wired.

Evan Brand: What about sweating? Increased sweating?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: – sweating, irritability, difficult sleeping. Where the hypo- symptoms, again, you can still have the mood stuff; you can still have the anxiety and mood stuff; you can still have some tired and wired – some tired and wired

feeling but typically more tired, though. And then the big thing is the cold hands, the cold feet, the thinning hair, the thinning eyebrows, the constipation. Those are gonna be the big differences. And obviously what trumps any of it, is an increase in TSH or thyroid antibodies are gonna be the biggest distinguishing factor, if it’s TPO or TSH receptor antibodies.

Evan Brand: And I just wanna mention one thing, too. In a lot of cases, the people we’re working with are gonna have both hypo- and hyperthyroid symptoms which can be equally confusing.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. Yup. Equally confusing. I mean we look at like the test that we give our patients to assess that uhm – right? The other big one’s losing weight. Losing weight uhm – even though you’re – or unintentionally gaining weight if you’re on the hypo- side or unintentionally losing weight if you’re hyper- side, right? That’s gonna be another, another big one. Elevated cholesterol – another, another big one. So those are a couple of the other ones that I mention there where the anxiety, the excessively sweating, uhm – again, hands shaking, difficulty sleeping, uhm – feeling more warm on the hyper- side. Those are gonna be the other big ones. And obviously having a family history. If your mom, or your aunt, or uncle, or your sibling has a thyroid issue, right? That’s gonna be a big – just, you know, big factor. One of the big questions I do in all my intakes is, are there celiac disease or any autoimmunity that runs in your family? Whether it’s thyroid, or Parkinson’s or MS, or ulcerative colitis, or Chron’s or anything autoimmune related, type I diabetes. And if there is, that really gets me to hone in there. But testing for autoimmunity, conventional medicine typically does it like ANA, or HLA-B27, or an RA Latex like – these are like the conventional, like broad markers for like scleroderma, or like – or celiac, right? Or see, rheumatoid arthritis, or lupus. They’re very non-specific a lot of times. And again uhm – and they typically are late stage markers. It takes a while for them to pop-up.  And again, a lot of people they may be asymptomatic and still have them. So it’s not a real motivating factor for a lot of people. Where some of the things we look at it with the thyroid antibodies, well even just a little bit above like the normal range. So like LabCorp, it’s 33 or 36 for the TPO. Where I think the thyro – the thyroglobulin antibody is anything greater than 1 is positive. So if we’re like at 1.5 or 2, you know – we will look at that and we’re gonna really push for autoimmune changes and autoimmune protocols. We see TPO going above 20, we’ll start to say, “Hey, you know, you wanna be careful with this.” And we’ll keep an eye on that. And then we have the – you know, people are on the thousands on the antibody levels. And we’ve made this change and I’ve seen 70, 80% drops. We take a patient from 2300 down to like 3 to 400, which is a massive drop.

Evan Brand: And so that’s diet, that’s lifestyle, removing infections, supporting adrenals. All those pieces, right?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Absolutely. And I got a question here on FacebookLive. I’ll try to connect it in here. And again, I apologize for Facebook Live listeners here. If you’re watching us there, check out the YouTube so you can actually see Evan. I’m gonna try to reiterate the questions so that you can hear it. Uhm – but that will be the best way to get the full conversation. Regarding uhm – question on Facebook Live, he’s talking about iron. Now, iron is really important coz it’s a really important building block for thyroid hormone. And we also need triiron for thyroid activation from T4 and T3, and we need it for just generally carrying oxygen to ourselves, which is really important for cellular metabolism. So if we have low iron levels that could be an issue. Now I did a full video this for people to get back to the iron video to get like the specifics on that. But again, typically we’ll recommend, like in my line, we use an Iron Supreme. It’s a Ferrous Bisglycinate. And we’ll do about 25 milligrams of iron, anywhere between 2 to 4 times a day to help support that. But also, we’ll figure out the root cause. Coz a lot of females, it’s excessive menstruation or hemorrhage. It could be vegetarian and vegan diets, or it could be the x factor of malabsorption from gut inflammation, to low stomach acid and enzymes and not being able to ionize minerals to an infection that’s stealing your minerals.

Evan Brand: Yeah. I’m so glad you brought that up because here I am thinking about myself, and the whole time, I had two parasite infections.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.

Evan Brand: I guarantee I have low stomach acid. I guarantee I had issues with iron absorption. And people, let’s say, even if you’re eating the best organic grass-fed beef, if you got an infection that is causing stress on the gut, therefore reducing stomach acid; therefore reducing the ability for you to cleave off those amino acids and iron from them – from the meat, you can still have trouble. And what about – what about ferritin, too? Because the iron storage protein, that’s what we’re gonna test. For many times, you’re gonna see, especially women have very, very low ferritin levels where – and you’ve got a woman with ferritin levels you know – in between say 20 and 40. You may be experiencing something like breathlessness, for example. You could definitely have hair loss falling out. Sometimes I’ll hear women say when their ferritin is about 20, let’s say their hair is falling out in clumps. So you wanna get ferritin, which is the iron storage protein. You gotta get that levels tested, too. And we like people to get up, you know, 60, 70, 80 with ferritin just to ensure that – that iron storage protein is actually working. Now – and this is something that I haven’t looked at very often, but I’m curious if you know Justin, if you’ve got low ferritin, are you always going to have low iron as well? Or is it possible that with low ferritin, your iron could still check out okay?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So with lower ferritin, iron serum can pop up, and it can pop up because – imagine like ferritin is like the gasoline that’s in the gas tank, right? And then think of like iron serum is like the iron is actually in the carbonator and then the piston’s ready to be – ready to be combusted, right? So one’s like – iron is like, what’s ready to go that’s in the actual engine and carbonator; and ferritin is like, what’s in the gas tank, right? So obviously the more important one is gonna be what’s in the gas tank coz that gives you the bigger picture, right? You don’t care, you know how much – how much engines – how much fuel’s in the carbonator. It will only take you maybe a couple of hundred meters, maybe a mile. I don’t know, I’m not a big car guy, so – But keep that in the back of your mind. Now the difference is your body has a little bit more of an interplay with other systems. So inflammation can increase iron serum. So that’s why we look at ferritin, but then we’ll also look at it with iron saturation, too. We see iron saturation low, below 25, when we see TIBC or UIBC on the higher side, that means your binding proteins are growing more and more fingers –  to have more iron. And if we see iron serum up, then we’ll be like, “hmm, maybe there’s some inflammation” We may wanna look at C-reactive protein, right? We may want to look at some of those inflammatory markers. Uhm – if we’re running a gut test, you may look at lactoferrin or calprotectin and see it – inflammation is occurring in the gut. So it really depends on what else is happening in the body. Does that make sense?

Evan Brand: Yeah. It does – it does. So, if you had to pick one or the other. Let’s say, somebody only gave you the option to run some of the specific iron markers or ferritin, what would you pick? For me, I think – I feel like I’ pick ferritin, if I could only pick one.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I mean, ferritin for sure. But an iron panel is like 30 bucks. There’s no reason –there’s no reason why anyone should nickel-and-dime on that because you don’t wanna compromise $30 getting a complete picture. So I think we run it. We keep doing it for 30 bucks and that’s everything.

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And that gives you the ferritin, the iron serum, and that gives you the UIBC, the TIBC, the iron stat. So then you have a real complete picture of what’s happening. And then you know, even just looking at someone’s CBC can be helpful coz you can look at red blood cells, hemoglobin, hematocrit and if that’s starting to go low, then we can look at MCH, MCB, MCHC, which is basically markers to see how big your red blood cells are, right? Smaller red blood cells typically mean iron issues; bigger red blood cells typically mean B12, folate and B6 issues.

Evan Brand: Wow. There’s another question. Actually there’s a comment up here by Tonya. She was talking about how she was able to eat gluten and dairy now after she had infections. And I guess she treated those, and now she’s able to eat gluten and dairy. I feel like that depends on the person. Me, personally even if I could get away with it, I still wouldn’t do it because you’re still gonna increase zonulin and leaky gut. Potentially set yourself up for future infections.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah. That’s the problem, right? Disaster doesn’t occur in –a day or a week, right? And we know that leaky gut can still happen even without the symptoms, right? We – there’s just been studies where they’ve given people pieces of gluten and they measured symptoms, they didn’t see necessarily an increase in symptoms or negative side-effects. But they saw this increase in zonulin and leaky gut because of it. Now we know that when that happens, you increase your risk of having other issues. So I know there are people right now, we get the same conversation. We’ll be talking to people that have been able to smoke cigarettes and not get lung cancer. Okay, great. Now, does that mean that you’re gonna go out and recommend smoking cigarettes to anyone? No. It’s still not gonna be beneficial. It’s still gonna be inflammatory. It still increases your risk. You don’t know who the people are that are gonna have the negative effects to begin with, right? It’s all like you have that looking glass that you can see in know. And also uh – you don’t know down the road when stress comes on and other things happen. Coz usually it’s not just one thing. It’s like, “great, now this person who’s talking – their stress bucket, they’re already filling it halfway.” So they’re going into with a half-full of stress bucket thinking that they’re okay, right? Alright. So, I got a half full of stress bucket. So now when other things come into their life, they’re gonna overflow faster.

Evan Brand: Agreed.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And then also – and also other people, that may overfill their stress bucket right away. And so that’s why you have to make sure that you know that some people may be the exception to the rule. They aren’t the rule. And this is where it’s –We have the advantage, Evan, because we see so many thousands of people that we can make correlations and can actually even see causation because we make changes and we see direct changes in the person’s physiology and their symptoms are getting better. So we can’t make – we can’t create all these protocols for the exception to the rule coz there are so many exceptions. There are people that smoke and don’t get cancer, alright? We know that. People that may consume gluten and may be okay, but the majority may have issues. Or they may set themselves up in increased stress bucket, right? Meaning increase their ability to handle less stress, so that when more stress comes on, boom, now they’re laid up.

Evan Brand: Exactly. Yeah. Tonya we had to put you on the chopping block there because for you commenting about saying gluten and dairy and you can get away with it now. You’re speaking for thousands of people that listen and do the same thing. And Justin and I will look at the symptoms of someone, and if there are still health complaints that haven’t been resolved, then let’s say we get the retest on GI-MAP stool test, and we look at antigliadin and antibodies, and I caught the lie detector test. I don’t know if you do, Justin. But it’s uh – when you get the antigliadin antibodies, it’s like, okay, one of three things happen. Either you’ve got gluten, you ate gluten, or you’ve got cross reactivity going on. And so, even if your symptoms are not supposedly there, your body is still fighting internally. There is still this internal battle going on, which is not what we want because then those antibodies can get confused and start attacking other tissues, which we don’t want.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And it’s tough because there are people that we see eat a diet that is you know – highly processed with a lot of carbs. And their blood sugar is relatively okay. And that maybe because they’re naturally more insulin sensitive, or they exercise more. And we see some people that eat the same diet, and they’re diabetic. So what do you do? Like I can’t sit there, and say, “well this person who eats this way isn’t diabetic” that means that diets is fine. No, it’s not. You have to look at the greater picture. You also have to look at what – does that diet now, is it nutrient dense? Is it anti-inflammatory? Is it low in toxins? And no, it’s not. But again, don’t get me wrong. Like dairies are open-ended topic, right? Ghee may be perfectly great. Butter maybe perfectly great.  Raw milk may be perfectly great for some people. But then we go to the pasteurized dairy, we go into more of the yogurts, which could be great, but it may not be. So do – we have to kind of uhm – can have a criteria for all those different compounds, right? Because some dairy may be okay, some may not be okay. And sometimes bread, too. Some people may do okay with bread over in Europe. Or they’ll do fine with sourdough bread coz it’s fermented and has less gluten in it versus, let’s say, wheat bread here that’s conventional. So you got to look at it, too. Some of those things may be okay and may have to be more specifically talked about.

Evan Brand: Yup. She commented back. She says, we’re missing the point. If parasite is the cause, you can go back to the way you were, prior to eating – oh the way you were prior, like eating gluten. We as people, ate gluten for a millennia and now it is the cause of all ills. I’ll comment on it first, and then I’ll let you say something about it. In the modern world, we have a lot more toxins. We have a lot more things that we’re up against, and so gluten, where maybe only would have change someone’s health 2 or 3% 5000 years ago, now,  has the ability to modify someone, tell 50 or 75, or even80% in some cases. We’ll see 80% of symptoms get better without it. So for me, comparing millennia to the modern world, we’ve never had a world like today. So it’s just not really a valid argument.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And the grains aren’t even like– If you look at the biblical grains, they talked about in the diet, and Dr. William Davies totally debunks this. If you look at the grains 2,000 years ago, reference in the bible, these are 12 chromosome uh – grain products versus the ones that they have right now, they’re hybridized and genetically modified, they’re up to 50 chromosomes. The gluten content is much higher and is also the extra stress of potential GMO nutrients, poor soils, as well as pesticide exposure. So it’s not quite the same way. Plus, people have to look at it from this perspective, if you drive around on your car, and you get a flat tire on your car, right? And you change the tire and you put the little – let’s forget that. Let’s just say you’re driving around on that flat tire for like a year, okay? So the flat tire is the cause of what’s happening here. But you drive around the flat tire for a year. That’s like ignoring the stressors of your health. It could be gluten. It could be parasite. But the longer you drive around on the flat tire, the more you front angles out of alignment; the more your suspension goes out of whack; the more your whole shock system in the car becomes stressed. And even if you decide, let’s say a year later, I’m gonna change that tire and put on a nice, fresh tire, which is like cutting out the gluten, managing stress, managing sleep, your car has been compromised where just changing the tire won’t fix it. You’re gonna have to go in for a full frontal alignment. You may have to get your tires rotated; you may need new shocks; your brake pads may have worn unevenly. There’s so many other issues that may happen with the car that where collateral damage from that flat tire being ignored. So just because you, let’s say, it was a parasite issue, and the parasites are now gone; or it’s a gluten issue, and the gluten’s now gone, doesn’t mean you now have nutritional deficiencies; doesn’t mean your enzymes and HCL are now effective; doesn’t mean your thyroid and your adrenals hormone system are now stressed; doesn’t mean your detoxification systems are now stressed, right? So this is what is happening. And other analogy is you’re in debt for 5 years. Great. You stop – you curtail your spending habits but you don’t get out of the hut – but you don’t get 100 grand out of debt by just changing your spending habits today. You need a bailout, or you need a lot more time just to start saving and get that money back up. Does that make sense, Evan?

Evan Brand: Yeah. Or the analogy of the spider web.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Evan Brand: Where there’s other pit of the web that’s affected, too. So for example, we can use me as an example. You look at me when uh – first time I came to your house. You’re like, “Evan, man, you look like you get a parasite.” You just- you just saw it. And I was like, “okay” It’s been a year plus since I’ve eradicated those infections, but I still am using enzymes and HCL because I was in such hypochloridic state that I still need to use supplemental HCL and supplemental enzymes. And I don’t really have an end date in mind where I’m not going to use enzymes because if I’m busy, or If I feel like I’m just not chewing my food as much as I should, to me, I like that nutritional insurance policy in place.

Uhm – there’s another question too that Chris asked earlier. He said, “not to be the dead horse, but isn’t there another marker to show autoimmunity of failsafe?” I guess since he’s asking because a lot of times –

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I already answered that one with the ANA and the conventional ones.

Evan Brand: Oh, okay.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And then the TPO. And also the gliadin antibodies be the stool testing we do. And then there’s uh – a test by Cyrex Lab that looks at leaky gut, which could give you a predisposing marker, where it looks at zonulin and occludin toxins which can open up the tight junctions. So that one will be another one when I look at.

Evan Brand: It’s pricey. Have you run that one often? The Cyrex, I mean, it’s like 600 bucks.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I’m not a big fan of that because it doesn’t tell me any of the cause. So if people have infections and their diet is not good, and they have – we’re seeing a low stomach acid and low enzyme environments, it’s not worth it. We just kinda work on treating the cause and then a lot of times, the clinical picture changes. Peoples bloating in gas and all these symptoms improved, which we know that means their digestion is getting better, their absorbing more nutrients. That means there has to be a leaky gut mechanism happening. I’m a bigger fan of looking at causal test versus the effect test. The effect tests are only good if you’re trying to convince someone or that people are skeptical. But once – people that are coming to see us are very intelligent because they’ve already educated themselves. They listen a lot to podcast. They read lots of blogs. They watch a lot of videos. They already get it. They don’t need to be convinced. They just wanna be fixed. So it’s a different mindset with those people.

Evan Brand: Agreed. Well said. And we don’t have people that need to be convinced they have leaky gut. Most of the time, they’ve already self-diagnosed themselves. In many cases, you don’t need to spend – I’d say99.9% of the cases, you don’t need to spend the money on a blood test that’s gonna say you have leaky gut. We could just list off symptoms – boom boom boom. Yeah, you probably got leaky gut. Cyrex, for their food sensitivity test, that is – that is cool one, but even then I feel like it’s a unnecessary in most cases because if you and I are gonna put somebody on like a AIP approach, let’s say thyroid disease did show up, some Hashimoto’s. We’ll have to go AIP and maybe we could try to reintroduce things. But they’re gonna be able to be a better barometer of Austin than the test in most cases. Like, “Oh when I added dark chocolate back in” or “when I added dairy back in” and this is what happen. I feel like that’s more valuable than a blood test.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.

Evan Brand: Totally.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We’ll do a full autoimmune elimination protocols and it’s gonna be very valuable for 90% of people. We’ll go an autoimmune diet, cutting out nuts, seeds, nightshade, eggs, obviously grains, legumes, dairy. And again, for people that are like the gluten fans that are on the message board here, they still aren’t nutrient dense food. If you look at the nutrients, if you look at the other compounds that aren’t gluten-related, right? Let’s look at the fact that some people are intolerant. They just can’t break it down because they’re missing the enzymes to do that. And that any time the food is not broken down, it can create stress in the body just like people that can’t break down lactose. They’re lactose intolerant and then they have diarrhea and bloating. So, some people just may be intolerant to breaking down the protein. Some people may be increasing inflammation because of the lectins and the phytic acid and then the oxalates that are just shutting mineral absorption. Other people may be having the autoimmune issue. So it’s still not a nutrient dense anti-inflammatory low toxin food. It’s not like there’s this missing nutrient that you can get out of gluten or out of these grains that you can’t get in some really awesome nutrient rich vegetables or healthy fruits with –or healthy starchy tubers. Does that make sense?

Evan Brand: Yeah. It does. Now – this is off-topic. But –

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s not a missing link. That’s my thing. If people had to say that – we – could show me a nutrient density chart and say, “But Dr. J, you get these nutrients, or the zinc and this is amazing or this, B vitamins”. I’d say, “Okay, but there’s not that evidence that it’s there.

Evan Brand: Right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Now a great – a great talk on this uhm – what’s his name, out of Harvard there – Matt Lalonde did a great talk at the Ancestral Health Symposium at 2012 on nutrient density. I highly recommend anyone watching that. But when you look at the nutrient density that you’re gonna get in meats, especially organ meats, it’s insane. It just destroys grains. And grains are the lowest out of all those foods.

Evan Brand:  Yeah. Now, we’re – we’re off-topic from the thyroid, but that’s fine because I love that’s it’s a dynamic conversation.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It connects in, right? Because-

Evan Brand: It does.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -nutrients help in thyroid conversion, they help with thyroid activation, they help with the adrenal, which helps the thyroid cells. Even though we’re off-topic, we’re gonna do our best to kind of meander our way back to the thyroid.

Evan Brand: Yeah. Now, what I was gonna say was a bit off- topic, which is – well all you’re saying is totally on topic but what I’m gonna say is it’s funny how even some of these professional healthcare companies are now designing supplements, which I’m not gonna even give them the credit of naming these products. But there are gluten supplements out there, where it’s like, “here, go eat gluten, but then here is this enzyme or here’s this XYZ supplement to where you can still try to eat gluten, but you just take these pills with them instead.” It’s like, that’s ridiculous. That’s like covering up the engine light in your car. The light’s still there, but here’s this magic tape that’s gonna hide it. I just don’t think supplements that enable you to eat gluten is a good idea.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Now, here’s the deal, right? If you have thyroid antibodies, if you know – if you have objective measures of autoimmune issues, or your heightenly celiac sensitive, another word is – almost like – almost like if you have gluten, like you’re laid up, like you’re just – you’re junk for days on it, I don’t ever recommend cheating with gluten. If you can manage, if you’re really healthy, and you don’t have severe thyroid or antibody markers popping up, then you could try going gluten-free you know, right? It maybe rice, or corn may be okay. If you do that, I typically recommend the enzymes, like the DPP-4 enzymes and we’ll take it with charcoal. But it’s a cheat, and we’re just trying to mitigate it. And we wouldn’t wanna ever do that as a staple to allow ourselves to eat gluten. Now, like myself, like maybe once year, like if I’m in Boston and I’m in the north end, I may have like a cannoli, but I found an alternative uh –modern bakery and get some gluten-free ones that are white flour-based. But if I go, I mean I’ll up the DPP-4 enzymes, increase the charcoal, and the vitamin C in the knack. And that will help me deal with it. Uhm – but again, that’s like – if you look at it, the 2000 meals I have a year, you know – maybe one or two have that in there, right? Not a lot. We’re talking .001% But people who are really, really sensitive or having gut over their health issues, initially you really wanna be puritanical. And then – I’ll kinda dovetail this with Johnny’s question here. Some of the testing that I will do to fine tune, if like patients are on the autoimmune, they kinda reintroduce things back in and they’re still having issues, and not quite sure what works, there will be some testing we’ll do like an MRT is a pretty good test. I’m liking the ELISA / ACT test as well coz it’s not just antibodies, it’s looking at various lymphocytes, too. And I do a combination of the ELISA and I’m – I’m kinda testing the MRT as well. And I’ll actually be doing some blind testing and sending some uh – different vials in with different people with actually my blood on with different names. I’m doing some blind testing on that. So hopefully I’ll do a video on that.

Evan Brand: You ought to try the, if you have it already, I believe it’s the Array 2. And there’s a couple of other Arrays form Cyrex, too. I’m a bigger fan of that than the MRT.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well the problem with Cyrex, though, it’s only looking at Ig or IgA – that’s the issue. So with the ELISA, it’s also looking at T-cell lymphocyte response and you’re not gonna get that picked up on Cyrex. That’s the big issue. And if you’re not exposed to gluten, let’s say we’re doing this test, and “yeah, I haven’t eaten gluten in a month or a couple of months” Well, if the immune system isn’t responding to it coz it’s not being exposed to it, it won’t come up in the test.

Evan Brand: Uhhh.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And people will be like, “Oh, look, I’m fine.” But may not be the case. So you have to look at it in a complete spectrum.

Evan Brand: That makes sense. So the ELISA / ACT.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh- hmm.

Evan Brand: And that’s blood.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s blood. Exactly.

Evan Brand: Cool. That sounds great. Well, I feel like we should probably wrap this up. I know this has been a lot of information uhm – if people are interested in your book, then they need to sign up for your email list. I mean – you’re so passionate about thyroid health, it’s definitely infectious. And do we have a date on that? Of this thyroid book? What’s up with that?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s done, man. I’m shooting it up to the editor. So we can buff it out and – and you know, I read all – every thyroid book on the market, I pretty much read. And my biggest issue is, you can summarize every thyroid book in like 5 pages.

Evan Brand: I know.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So I want a book that’s shorter. It’s more condensed. I want every page to be neat. I want every page to be __I want every page to have like action items. People can walk away and really improve their health and then throughout – in a standstill, they can reach out to people like myself and you, to kinda like get to the next level. So that’s where I’m at right now – to fine tune and boil it down. I want to touch just one question. Dale mentioned it earlier, he talked about mercury. And mercury is an important aspect coz mercury can pinch it and affect the thyroid. There’s this study showing that lowering mercury can decrease thyroid antibodies. I have one patient that had thyroglobulin antibodies over 2000 and we saw the antibodies drop below 100. So we saw a 99% drop in antibodies by removing mercury. So we’ll test that. We’ll do challenge test via urine and we’ll use various provocation agents like DMPS, which is 2, 3 dimer propanoic acid, or we’ll do uh – 2, 3 dimer succinic acid, which is DMSA. Or we can even do EDT as well. But I typically do the DMPS challenge and we’ll be able to provoke that and see what’s coming out from the mercury. That can be a big, big uh – kind of underlying revealer of another aspect of what could be driving an autoimmunity, which is the mercury. And again, I know you’ve done the shade testing which looks at urine unprovoked, hair, and blood. Not a big fan of hair and because they don’t tell you an active or chronic uhm – a chronic level. Doesn’t give you a tissue burden. And also, there’s study showing that people that push more mercury out on the hair actually have better detox pathways, and they measure people who push less mercury on the hair, and they actually found that they had more provoked mercury in the urine even though they push less out in the hair, partly because their detox pathway is impaired.

Evan Brand: Wow. I’m gonna try yours coz it sounds like it sounds like I could be getting some numbers that are not what they actually are. I wonder what other heavy metals are impacting this, too? I wonder if cadmium, for example, or aluminum is also gonna impact thyroid. It seems like all heavy metals potentially could. Or do you think it’s specific to mercury. Mercury’s gonna be the biggest?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well mercury is definitely gonna be the biggest coz it’s one of the second or third most toxic compounds in the world. It’s really bad. So that one. Obviously lead is gonna be really bad, too. Because lead and mercury interplay, right? If you look at the lethal dose of one – if you take uhm – the dose, you get hundred rats lined up, and you figure out, you keep on titrating the mercury dose up. So the first rat dies out of a hundred. So you titrate the mercury up, the first rat dies, right? That’s called the – the lethal dose of one, right? The 1, the 1% that kills – the dose of 1% of that kills. And you do that for mercury and lead, so you have the hundred rats, right? One dies of mercury, right? You increase the lead up here or one dies of lead. And you now combine the mercury and lead those together to all 100 rats, they all die. Did you get that?

Evan Brand: Yeah, I sure did.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So what they’re saying is even though it only kills one of here over a hundred and the lead over here kills one out of a hundred, but when you combine it together, and gives it all to 100, all of them die. Meaning that, these metals are synergistically connected and can have exponential effects when added. So if you see mercury and lead together, typically the compounds that we’re using, are gonna be specific to mercury and lead for sure. So you don’t have give a special one for mercury and a special one for lead, right? So you give it and it would globally affect mercury and lead and typically cadmium, as well. And we’d also wanna give extra binders. Crochet talks about this like MC but MCT like modified citrus pectin, MCP actually. Uh – we’d also give maybe charcoal or bentine clays. We’d also use things like chlorella, especially for mercury. And we’d also use things to support detoxification. So in my line, we use heavy metal clear and then we also use DMPS and we use a lot of sulfur amino acid support to run phase 2 detoxification, as well.

Evan Brand: And still eat your broccoli, folks.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, yeah. Your cruciferous are gonna be really important for your DIM and Indole-3-Carbinol which all help run phase 2 detoxification.

Evan Brand: Awesome.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Well, anything else here? Any other questions we wanted to run to? Uh – on the YouTube live here, anything else we can answer?

Evan Brand: I think that was everything.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think we hit it all up pretty well. Oh, I didn’t touch upon this. Let me just hit it real quick. Iodine. Iodine is a really important nutrient for the Iodination process to make thyroid hormone, right? If you look at the T, the T typically stands for- some people say thyroid or tyrosine. And then the 4 number is the Iodine. So you have the Iodination process and then you have the 5 prime, the iodinase that comes in there and it grabs and pulls off an iodine, and activates it and makes it T3. Well, that enzyme that activates thyroid hormone is selenium dependent and comes from the liver. So healthy liver function is really important. But having adequate iron uhm – adequate iron level as well is important, but having adequate iodine is also important. RDA is about 150 to 200 µg a day to at least prevent goiter. Now some people may need more than that. Now you have people like Brown Steen and other doctors that are going super, super high, 2550 mg a day. I’m very, very cautious of doing any high-dose iodine. I have seen too many patients uhm – like literally just lose their hair. Like just like gaps, like handfuls come out and their thyroid has gotten worst. Number one, like if we give iodine and they have autoimmunity, it’s typically months later after we’ve stabilized the gluten, stabilized the adrenals, supporting thyroid, supporting nutrients, supporting the gut, get their diet in shape, get their digestion better and then we’ll start very low and we’ll gradually work them up. But we’ll be checking in, we’ll be monitoring it and we’ll be doing very low doses and then gradually tapering it up or also making sure there’s enough selenium there, enough B vitamins, enough minerals, enough vitamin C. So we’ll make sure there’s a lot of other cofactors coz when you give iodine, it can spit out hydrogen peroxide, which can increase D cell lymphocyte infiltration into the thyroid. So it can exacerbate autoimmunity. So if we do it, we’re doing it responsible. We’re doing a lower RDA doses as a starting point and then gradually working our way up from there.

Evan Brand: So what about working with foods at the same time? So I’ve heard some people, anti-kelp people out there. And I don’t know why there’s some anti-kelp people.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, I think you just gotta be careful with kelp just because just coz where it’s coming from, the whole Fukushima disaster two years back.

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -radiation. So just gotta be careful. There are some really good sources out there. You gotta make sure it’s not coming from one of those places and number two, there’s a whole list of foods that you can give. Typically, like in my multi- there’s gonna be at least the RDA there, which is great.

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Egg yolks are gonna have some iodine as well. Uhm- obviously seaweeds have some good iodine sources. You just have to make sure that it’s not gonna be the Fukushima kind. I’ll get a list right here. I’ll read out a couple of foods that are really high in iodine in just one second.

Evan Brand: I’ve heard strawberries, too, which is interesting. And then I also wonder – it’s hard to get a composition sheet for a Himalayan pink salt. I wonder if you’re gonna get any iodine from pink salt or not?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I mean there’s some maybe some trace amounts there. I know iodized salt; 1 gram will have about 77 µg. There are some research showing that increased iodize salt consumption did increase autoimmunity. And it could just be that these are the general public. They’re just taking it, they already have a poor diet, and they don’t have the selenium, and the B’s, and the minerals, and the vitamin C in the background. And maybe that’s why that happened. So it’s hard to say. So there are studies on that showing there could be an issue. But things like cod, right? Things like shrimp, uh – things like turkey. Even some navy beans, even some tuna, even some eggs are gonna have some good iodine. I mean one egg is gonna have 12 to 15 µg iodine. So if you do 4 eggs a day, that’s about 60. You got a good multi- that will be 150. Uhm – you have some fish, you got some other food, now you’re like at 3, 400µg. Now you may need to go higher, but you had to work with physician or functional medicine practitioner to be monitoring the antibodies and make sure you have all ducks in a row first, before you go there.

Evan Brand: Yeah. I mean there’s people that will just start covering themselves in iodine. And so that could be a bad idea, you’re saying, coz you could actually increase antibodies, right?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally can increase antibodies. Uhm- you gotta be careful with that.

Evan Brand: I’m not – for some reason iodine, one of those things and kind of the eggs will call the natural health community that is – it’s been portrayed as very benign. And I remember even in some of the – the classes I was taking down in Austin, I remember a girl in class, she like paints everyday, she was painting her arm with iodine. And she was like, “it’s the greatest nutrient ever.” I was like, “Oh, my Lord. This is out of control.”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well painting on your skin for the most part, 80% of it evaporates.

Evan Brand: Uh-huh.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: The only time I recommend painting it on your skin is if you have fibrocystic breast disease uh – you have a lot of cyst and painful breast tissue. Painting it on the breast tissue can be great coz you’re driving the iodine right into the localized spot, where there’s the cyst, which could help. But outside of that, I mean, if you have –if you need iodine systemically for your body and for your thyroid function, you wanna take it in – in your body. And typically do a liquid potassium iodide.

Evan Brand: So she wasn’t – She probably wasn’t making herself toxic then. She was just turning herself uh – brown.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. 80% of it – you know, the iodine pass test, like the faster it evaporates, meaning the more your body absorb it; the slower it evaporates the more iodine you have. It’s very crude measurement, right? The better test is gonna be like Hakala or I think doctor stated, there’s an iodine loading test. I think it’s 25 to 50 mg of iodine then you test uhm – your urine and see how much GPL. So the goal is, if you pee 90% or more, it means your iodine levels are saturated; if you pee less than 90%, right? You pee less than 90% that means your body grab more of that iodine. So it’s – you’re essentially low. That’s the theory on that. 90% and more, you’re okay; less than 90, you’re low.

Evan Brand: Uhh. That’s interesting.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: But again, regarding iodine, you gotta do it responsible – responsibly. If you’re – think of iodine gasoline on the fire.

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Gasoline is not bad when you put it in your car. But if your car is on fire, and you start putting gasoline in your car, you can create problems, obviously, right? That’s what’s kinda happening in your thyroid. You wanna look at everything holistically. And you want the body system approach that Evan and I use, the key three, looking at the hormones, ATF( adrenals, thyroid, female hormones); ATM (adrenals, thyroid, male hormones), gut and infections, putting nutrients, digestion, better food, allergies, and then looking at detox and nutrients, as well.

Evan Brand: Yup. Well said. Go to justinhealth.com to schedule consultation with Justin. Check out the thyroid videos series. He’s got hormone videos series, too. You’ve got the supplement line there. And then, you could check out my stuff, too, notjustpaleo.com or you could just google either of us. Justin, or Dr. Dr. Justin Marchegiani. Evan Brand. You’ll find us both. And stay tune because this is really fun. And I don’t know about you, but I’m loving this. I think maybe 3 to 5 times more than just doing an off-air podcast coz people are asking questions. And it’s like shaping and structuring this.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: This little organic podcast ball.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I love it. We love the questions. We like just having this little kinda dialogue back and forth and “ooh, someone responds over here, let’s see what they said” and we kinda see if we can interject it into the conversation. That’s great. Totally m__we’re on the fly.

Evan Brand: Love it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Like impromptu, right? It’s like we’re on the stage, doing a little impromptu podcast.

Evan Brand: There’s no cuts; there’s no edits; there’s no –

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Overall man, this is it.

Evan Brand: This is – this is the real deal. This isn’t – there’s not a makeup person coming in and touching you up here. I mean this is the real deal.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I know. If you guys are liking this, we’re gonna do it a lot more. We just need thumbs up; we need likes; we need shares; show us the love. Go like Evan’s channel. Share the podcast. And then we’re gonna do more of this, and get everyone’s questions answered, and just provide more value. Like how could we provide more value to our listeners and improve your health.

Evan Brand: Yeah. And I think I mentioned it already. But if you wanna schedule a consult with Justin, just go to the website, justinhealth.com you could schedule the consults there.  And same thing for me, notjustpaleo.com and we’ll chat with you all next week. And let’s do something next week, maybe – maybe on like clinical success stories we’re having in the practice.

Evan Brand: Well that means they’re coming in –

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And just like, maybe go over our top 3 stories of the week. Coz we see – you know, so many patients. We can pick out 3 easily.

Evan Brand: Well, yeah. I thought of something, too. Uh- actually, a woman who was struggling with fertility is now pregnant. And I figured, getting her on and talking about her story with parasites and how her fertility was compromised due to the infections. Getting her on the air, maybe asking them– we have to make it fun for them, too. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: For them to take time out of it, get them to share their story and just kinda talk them through what we did. I think that’s- that’s the most remarkable part of all this, is getting to hear the feedback, which a lot of people, they’re not getting to hear the stories. And this is what keeps us motivated and keeps us going.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I love it, Evan. That sounds awesome, man. Well, let’s connect real soon, brother.

Evan Brand: Take care.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You take care. Bye now.

Evan Brand: Bye.


References:

www.notjustpaleo.com

YouTube.com/justinhealth

Natural menopause solutions – Podcast #123

Dr. Justin Marchegiani and Evan Brand engage in a discussion about menopause. Join them as they share their expertise on women dealing with menopause, including the associated symptoms, hormones, and health factors creating an impact to this period.

Menopause is a naturally occurring transition in a woman’s life. It is a period wherein women undergo a lot of changes in their bodies. This talk will give you important information about these changes caused by hormones, including hormone function and drug interaction. Find out about the effects of infection, as well as other health related issues involving the adrenals, blood sugar and stress making menopause a more challenging experience than it already is. Learn about the natural ways and solutions to keep your health in check during the menopausal period.

In this episode, we cover:

6:26   Menopause: definition and symptoms

9:17   Adrenal gland and hormones

13:40   Conventional Solutions

17:08   Testing hormone preparations

19:31   Bioidentical hormones & herbs

29:20   Dietary recommendations

 

itune

 

 

youtuve

 

 

 

 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey, there! It’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani, alright. I’m hooked on this Youtube live thing. We’re doing our podcast today, Evan and myself. So we are- So we talked about doing menopause uh, today. That was a topic I was listening and learning and reading a lot about it yesterday. I’m honestly dealing with menopause patient for the last decade but always brushing up on my info. Evan what’s going on, man? How you doing?
Evan Brand: Hey, I’m doing awesome. This is fun. Isn’t it great today?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It is. I love it. Very cool. So how’s your morning goin’?

Evan Brand: It’s pretty good. I still think that the, the best car for me is gonna be the Tesla because it is the HEPA air purifier in it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, nice. You in the market for a new car?

Evan Brand: Well the Honda Accord, I mean I love it, trust me but, taking in all those diesel fumes like I was telling you about even with the re __ on, I went over to the dealership and they were like, “Sir, you’re never gonna be able to block all of the fumes outside.” I said, “I will if I could have a HEPA filter.”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally, man.

Evan Brand: I think those Tesla’s are like biologically, like they put biological warfare down or something they will still be safe.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup, yup. Crazy. Oh, we’re live today. And we’re gonna be chatting aboutmenopause which is an exciting topic for me. I love my menopausal female patients because they’re really motivated. Number one, uh they need a lot of help. Number two, in the conventional medical options for them is pretty poor. So, yeah.

Evan Brand: I’m excited to be able to help. Yeah. Totally.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And we got a live chat going in the background which is exciting. So people wanna ask some questions. We may interject here and go live to some of their questions. That’s really exciting, too.

Evan Brand: Where shall we start?You wanna go over symptoms? Talk about- what, I mean most women if they’re dealing with menopause, they’re gonna know about the symptoms but people listening you know- Hey, Butter. Sometimes-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: She’s Independence. She’s my biggest fan.

Evan Brand: Awesome.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Actually, my wife’s my biggest fan. She’s probably second.

Evan Brand: Sometimes you know- whatwe’ll find is with women you know- if they get their ovaries removed, they’re basically gonna skip perimenopause or just gonna go straight to full-blown menopause. Which is what’s happened, for example with my mom, getting the full hysterectomy, for example. You know at 40 something years old, she had already been put into full-blown menopause, basically. And so, she was experiencing a lot more symptoms a lot more rapidly. And say a woman who’s naturally gonna transition.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. I have to say, Evan. Honestly, I’m mesmerized by that chest hair that’s coming out, man. I’m sorry.

Evan Brand: I know.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I was just like “Whoa! okay.”

Evan Brand: Can you believe that?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I know.

Evan Brand: I just actually, I just, I just show my wife last night and said,“Babe, this thing is growing north right now.”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. Well on hormones, you know- hair,or hair growth will be a big connection with that. So we can chat about that today. Very cool.

Evan Brand: First thing, I need to button up this extra button here, so I’ll do it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I don’t know, man. It’s gonna be really hard for me to pay attention during –

Evan Brand: Alright, alright. Let me button this up then. I apologize for my manliness.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: No. You’re good, man. You’re good.

Evan Brand: Alright. Go over symptoms. What should we- I mean hot flashes are gonna be very common. Of course, everyone’sgonna know about hot flashes. They’re probably bored of hearing about that. But something that we see a lot, too is depression and mood swings. Something that could definitely be fixed if we take a look at the adrenal glands. And I guess were to hit on that adrenal connection, too. Because the backup generators, which are the adrenals, which should hopefully be kicking in and supporting women. A lot of times they had adrenal fatigue already. So when the ovaries and hormones go down, the adrenals are already tanked. So you’re not gonna have that backup generator that’s gonna help you out.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. I’d say the big is, let’s define menopausal a bit more. So menopause is that time where typically the ovarian function, the ovarian output of hormones is-is running low. It starts to get depleted. And that’s typically because the follicles that a woman is born with, they start to run out. So a woman typically has you know, hundreds of thousands of follicles at birth. And then eventually, only maybe 400 or so are viable. So you fertility for a woman typically, let’s say on average, is gonna be from maybe 13 to 15, depending on when they have their period at first all the way up to the early to mid 40s. Some even late 40s uhm, today as well. So that’s kinda like your- your viable uhm, window for fertility. So when those eggs start to run out, and what starts to happen is your ovarian function starts to diminish. And then that typically, it’s about, consider it about a one year time frame until you actually get in to uh-menopause. That’s the perimenopausal timeframe. It’s about one year until you- One year without a period is what you consider to be menopause. And obviously if you get a, your ovaries removed, like hysterectomy wise, obviously that’s instantaneous menopause, right. Coz you’re missing the hormone output. For most women it’s about 12 months about a cycle. And that’s when you technically hit menopause. And then menopause typically can last until you’re instantly postmenopausal. Can typically last about 10 years. So that can kinda scare some women. And if you get your universal move, like a partial hysterectomy- you keep your ovaries but you get your uterus removed- women typically will go through menopause about four years faster. So the uterus does have some hormonal interplay. So again, because you- let’s say have a partial hysterectomy and still have your ovaries, you still will go through menopause. And it’s important that you get that support. And a lot of women they get their uterus removed. It’s typically because, maybe endometriosis or severe fibroids, or some kind of excessive hemorrhage, or bleeding. They cause them to get removed in the first place.

Evan Brand: Well even I’ve heard of some women saying just because they don’t wanna have a period anymore and doctor will still do the surgery.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. That’s not a good move because your uterus does have some effect on hormonal output. Again the research and people don’t quite have their head around it, that you have, around hundred percent. But there’s still a reason why that is there. So the first aspect is you know, the definition, one year without a period. That’s number one. Number two we have that perimenopausal timeframe, which is about 12 months. And then once you’re in menopause, about 10 years until your technically postmenopausal. Now all the symptoms that we talked about earlier, what are they? There gonna be hot flashes, of course, right.There gonna be mood issues, lack of femininity, right. Feeling less like a female, less like woman, uhm called the sagging breasts. Uhm, I would say a little loss of elasticity in skin. As your estrogen drops, that can shrink breast tissue. It can also stimulate or decrease the stimulation of collagen. So the skin starts getting- losing that quality, and that elasticity, and that nice healthy useful tone, hair loss, mood issues, brain fog, osteoporosis, obviously vaginaldrynesss, depression. So these are all symptoms of the ovaries losing their ability to function. And then what starts to happen is your adrenal glands really have to pinch-hit and come to the table.

Evan Brand: Yup. So if you got infections or your adrenals are tanked, when the- if we use the pinch-hit term, they’re not gonna be able to doit very well because you’ve got these other problems. Or the diet is not good, you’ve got blood sugar swings. So without healthy blood sugar, it’s gonna be tough to have healthy adrenal function.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly.

Evan Brand: You know the thing that’s interesting is a lot of women get talked to about menopause like it’s a disease. But it’s not really a disease. It just seems that the modern world in terms of either too much or too little exercise, and a diet that’s not rich in good fats and good proteins, those are the modern things that we’re up against. So menopause is becoming more prevalent. And then also, it’s gonna be more severe, too. Because our ancestors they’ve dealt with menopause. You know, this is a natural transition, but now we’ve- were up against these new things that the modern world present. So therefore, we have to play the cards a little bit smarter, make sure we’ve got the nutrition down, make sure we’ve got the exercise portion down, and then we always get to the underlying issues that could still be affecting things or making things more intense. Like say, an infection which you and I find hundreds and hundreds a year. And menopausal women, a lot of times there is adrenal issues calls from infections.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely.And to- I wanna add, we’re actually doing this podcast live. So anyone watching live right now, feel free and write in a question or two. And we’ll be able to see if we can intermingle the questioning with the podcast. Sothis is gonna be this kinda new little set up here. If people are likin’ this, we may do more of it. So we’re pretty excited about it. I did a couple YouTube lives this morning and people want a couple questions answered. But still do it as long as we can get a turn into the topic.

Evan Brand: Yup. So-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I got a little Kombucha right now. I’m getting my ginger Kombucha in here.Nice.Love it, love it. Nice.

Evan Brand: I’m drinking uh, Vitamin C actually right now. Vitamin C tonic out ofout of little mug that says having tea with a friend brightens any day.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Here, here. Touche on that one. Excellent. So we talked about hot flashes a little bit. Can you talk about- Can you go into like, the adrenaland why the adrenals are so important for women that are getting ready to go into menopause?

Evan Brand: Yeah. Absolutely. Well so, if we look at the top of the food chain of hormones, if you type in steroid hormone pathway chart online, you can see where cholesterol, which is going to come from diet. Also of course the liver and all of that. But you got cholesterol at the top of the food chain here. Then downstream we’ve got progesterone. You’ve got pregnenolone. You’ve got your estrogen, your estriol, your estradiols, your testosterone, your DHEA’s. You’ve got your aldosterone. You’ve got cortisol. You got all these hormones that are depending on a pretty good balance. But as we pry talked about before, what happens is the pregnenolone steal, some people debate that. Some people say that it’s not true. But just based on what we have done, and what we do, to me it makes perfect sense of the pregnenolone steal is perfectly real. Which is the process where men and/or women that are under significant stress, the body is going to prioritize cortisol production over the production of these other hormones like your estrogens. And so when menopause is occurring, and the levels of estrogen and progesterone are dropping, now you’re just dependent on the adrenals and this cortisol, this whole adrenal cortisol- and I guess we’ll call it backup generator- to do the work that was being done by two generators before. Now you’ve got one generator doing the same amount of work. Now, if you’ve already been in sympathetic fight or flight mode, for significant amount of time, you’re gonna have trouble. So when we pull your adrenal cortisol results, we’re gonna see that you’ve likely got low free cortisol. Which means since you’re not outputting the amount that you should be. So the analogy I use is the smartphone. So a lot of women where looking at, they could be, we would like to seem around 28 or 30 units of free cortisol. I’ll make a bio health test, for example. But a lot of women are showing up anywhere say 10 to 15 units of cortisol. So that’s like you starting your day with your smart phone battery charged at 50%.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah

Evan Brand: And you’re trying to get through the whole day. It’s gonna be tough. And so this is why having healthy adrenals and having a good adrenal protocol in place, for me is essential not only for men and women that are you know, younger. But older women especially are going to benefit from some of the adaptogens and strategies that we can chat about.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. Now, looking at the adrenals, I always thought patients are like a backup generator, right. They’re gonna produce a significant amount of DHEA which can go down the hormonal cascade and can become testosterone andro and primarily at a female, we’re gonna go down more of the estrogen pathway. So if you look at testosterone andro it can also float downstream into either estrone, or estradiol estrone, and estradiol.And then from there it can get converted in the liver to estriol. Estriol is gonna be about 80% of all the estrogens in your body will be estriol. During reproductive age, estradiol will predominate as your main estrogen. And then when you go into menopause, estrone will be what predominates when you’re menopausal. So let’s break that down. We have E1, E2, E3-really simple. The names have a good giveaway. Estrone has O-N-E in it. So that’s E1. Estradiol, D-I, right. like 2 dice, E2.And then estriol, T-R-I, that’s gonna be E3. So you’ve E1, E2, E3. E1, estronethat predominate when you’re menopause. E2, during reproductive age. E3 will be what’s there the majority of the time. Uhm- but it’s weaker, and it will significantly predominate when you’re pregnant. So what happens is when you’re going to menopause, E2 starts to decrease, and we start to get more dependent upon the E1. The problem is E2 and E1 are stronger estrogens and could be proliferative. Meaning, they can increase risk of cancer and other health issues. So, if we are gonna support a female with some bioidentical hormone preparation- Bioidentical meaning the hormone molecule matches what’s in your body, typically plant-based.We’ll do it with estriol, E3. And we’ll even typically combine a tiny bit of progesterone in there to support the female hormones.

Evan Brand: Should we talk about the conventional solutions,like hormone replacement therapy? Like the one that comes to mind here about a lot as Premarin?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. But yeah- yet but you Prempro or Premarin Provera?

Evan Brand: Yeah. I mean- That’s- that’s it. That’s linked with increased risk of heart disease now.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, in cancer- I mean the women’s health initiative study uhm- found that about 10-15 years ago. So it’s- it hasn’t been prescribed as much for hot flashes and menopausal symptoms. But it’s still is being prescribed. Their more natural, kinda anti-aging doctors are out there, typicallymedical-based. They’re prescribing hormones. The problem with it is they prescribe like it’s candy. They prescribe it like it’s a vitamin or nutrient. And hormones are really, really powerful, right. Hormones are measured in like nanograms, which is like one speck of salt in like a swimming pool, right. So it’s like very- you know- very, very sensitive. You know, amounts of these things. So looking at hormones, we wanna make sure we don’t give it like a supplement. We wanna make sure we actually test. So, we’re not guessing when we prescribe it. It’s specific to what the patient needs. Number two- number two, is we actually have to make sure the diet and lifestyle is dialed in coz that’s a really, really important starting point. And I would say even more important, most medical doctors or bioidentical doctors totally ignore the adrenal portion of that. So the adrenal is just totally not even on site. And we know how important the adrenals are for that backup generating of the sex hormones, especially when you on menopause. So imagine that backup generator, if it’s on empty, or the smartphone analogies on low, that means symptoms. So you gotta turn the generator when the storm comes in, it’s not on full. Guess what? Your power is not gonna work. There’s gonna be a lot of things in your house aren’t gonna work, like you have full power. And what that equates to a menopausal female, is symptoms. Mood issues, skin issue, hot flashes, of course, vaginal dryness, low libido, right. So those are the things we gotta be very mindful of, when we’re dealing with menopausal females.

Evan Brand: Let’s talk about what the options are. I mean even if you do go bioidentical, a lot of times you’re going to get hormone creams. But the more, more that we develop hormone creams, I’m finding that- that can disrupt other hormones, and it’s gonna be tough to measure, it’s gonna to be tough to get the right dose. And so now, I’ve been reading a lot about sublingual drops- for bioidentical hormones. Supposedly, that’s the best because you can determine exactly what dose you’re taking. For me that goes out of my- you know, that goes out of my pay grade coz I’m not a prescribing medical doctor. But it’s at least good to know that there are options out there for women because if they are going to go talk to their endocrinologist, or you know- some type of MD that’s more integrated. Hopefully they can know that, you definitely don’t want to go oral, you definitely don’t want to go with the cream. But if you can go sublingual drops, with the bioidenticals. However, in a lot of cases, if we are getting the diet dialed in, orgetting like some omega-3, fatty acid supplements in, we’re removing synthetic estrogens, the plastics, and all the other exposures, the phthalates, and all the other endocrine disruptors, and health and skincare products, and then we’re addressing underlying issues, I’ve had great success with many women- women. I know you have, too. In- we’re not- we’re not saying,“hey, go get this drug”, “go get the struggle get this prescription”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Exactly. So when it comes to hormone preparations, number one, how do you test it?Most medical doctors they’re gonna primarily use a serum bound test, a serum blood test to look at hormonal levels. Now the problem is, serum represents a 100% of all the hormones that are in your blood, right. The problem is only about 2% maybe 2 to 5% hormone’s a free fraction. So the problem is because a small- for such a small small percent of the hormones that are free, it’s such a small percent out of the hundred percent. It’s really hard to measure it because you don’t have a small enough gauge to sense it.

Evan Brand: That make sense.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So it’s like using a thermometerthat only tells youyou’re either 97- 98- 99.Doesn’t tell you the in between temperatures. So your 97-9, it may say you’re still 97, right. So imagine that’s kinda like the blood testing. So we use a free fraction test that will break it up and look at the free fraction of the hormone. Whetherwe’re using bio house salivary cortisol, or salivary progesterone or estrogen test. That’ll look at the free fraction. Or we use the Dutch testing, that will also look at the free fraction. Excuse me.The Kombucha gets uh- gets me a little bit burpy.

Evan Brand:Ha ha

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I apologize for that. Uhm- so looking at that, we will wanna do tests that look at the free fraction. Number one- so salivary test or like a really good Dutch test by Precision Analytics is great. Because we get a more fine two-metric of where those free fraction of the hormones are at. Again, there are some blood tests that can- I think you can look at estradiol-free. I don’t think you can look at progesterone-free or cortisol-free on a blood test, yet. You can look at serum cortisol, you- you can look at estradiol-free, you can look at testosterone-free. I do not think you can look at progesterone-free. So again, we wanna be able to look at the free fraction coz that’s what bioavailable and combined into a receptor site.

Evan Brand: Yeah, I wanted to mention the- Dr. Jonathan Wright, which- I believe it’s the same- it’s the same guy who wrote the book on stomach acid, which is I know one your favorites on my favorite books.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yup.

Evan Brand:  That he’s got some good info with Mercola about administering bioidentical hormones. And are talking about the version that they call tri S, which is supposedly 80%, estriol, 10% of each estrone and estradiol. So it sounds like- for even you know people like my mom, any woman that’s had you know- a full hysterectomy, it sounds like this is gonna be pretty foundational to- to overall health. It sounds like you can’t really out supplement your way if you have had you know- a full hysterectomy like this. What’s your take?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right. Remember what I said? I said 80% estriol, right. So think about it, right. With a tri S, what is it? 80-10-10. 80% E2- I’m sorry-E3, estriol that’s the tri S. So 80% estriol, E3. 10% estradiol and 10% estrone. And that’s good if you can get it compounded that way. That’s fine. Again it’s still gonna be a cream and the problem is some women don’t do well with the cream because it super saturates in the subcutaneous tissue and starts coming out in uncontrollable amounts. You don’t get dosed into the bloodstream as efficiently let’s say, as a sublingual. They can go right into your sublingual tissue in your buccal tissue, go right to the blood, and there’s no like real fat in the mouth. Soright in there, and your good. Now the differenceis Dr. Jonathan Wright’s talked about this. If he does sublingual’s- I’m sorry-If he does the creams, he typically does it inter vaginally because of the submucosa down there. They can go right into the bloodstream. So that’s helpful. But again, you know, I’ve dealt with a lot of women that do the creams and such,inter vaginally, which can work decent on menopausal women. Not so much on cycle, and I’ll tell you why.But again– it’s some issues issues. I mean not to get too graphic here, you can get to the underwear, you can come out. Uh- it’s okay if you can do it at nighttime when you’re lying down. But sometimes you get discharge and they can wrap women’s underwear. They can be a little uncomfortable. So it just depends on what you like. If women have already done that- done it that method. And then they’re doing well, and the hormones are stable, and they didn’t have any of those issues that I mentioned, fine. If not, we’ll typically recommend some of the sublingual drops. Some of the estriol and/or progesterone drops. We’ll also support the adrenal glands themselves. And then will also use some specific herbs to help modulate the sex hormones. We’ll use wild yam. We’ll use chaste tree, or vitex. We’ll use dong quai. We’ll use black cohosh. Uh- we’ll use some of those herbs to help modulate the receptor sites. I’ll even use some specific phenotypes of mock guys. Some specific phenotypes for cycling women and/or menopausal women that- that will help with even some of those symptoms of the receptor site level, depending if we have a cycling or a menopausal issue.

Evan Brand: How about soy during this time?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well if you’re using specific soy isoflavones, that can be helpful to modulate estrogen receptor sites. Again, we’ve talkedvery negatively about soy, but again soy if you extract the isoflavones, you’re also not getting all of the proteins and the  in the goitrogens, and the trypsin inhibitors. All of the negative effects. And of course, it’s gonana be extracted from a non-GMO source. So my opinion, you can still get some significant benefits. But where it’s the genestein the other types of soy isoflavones can be helpful for modulating, yes, receptor sites.

Evan Brand: Sure, sure. And I briefly mentioned omega-3’s but that’s another good one. Just plenty of omega-3 fats so good, high-quality triglyceride form of fish oils, which is what you and I use. So if you are takin’ a fish oil and you get fish burps, it’s probably ethyl ester. And that’s not good. If it smells fishy, most of the time,that’s not good, either. And you want to-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You want the triglyceride form.

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s it.

Evan Brand: Which is basically is as close as you can get to the raw form or the form that you would get if you’re just actually eating the fish.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. So looking back at all the different things we talked about some herbs to help modulate receptor sites. We talked about using potential bioidentical hormones, our biases more towards the sublingual. If you were to do intravaginal cream, if have to be intravaginal, ideally not on the skin as much. Because of the super saturation in the subcutaneous tissue. And I see it on test. When you see like literally women are off the charts. You’re like, “hey, your doctor’s just measuring blood.”And because it doesn’t have a small metric to pick up that unit 2% or so, it may look okay in the blood, but not the okay in reality in- in the spectrum of looking at the free.

Evan Brand: Yeah. I’ve seen that, too. I’ve seen it with men, too. Which is all other conversation but testosterone replacement therapy, where just go so far above the 6, 6000 about 6000. That’s like where the test maxes out. And its like, “whoa! something’s not right.”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. Now, looking at cycling women, why do I wanna avoid creams altogether? Well for the most part with cycling women, their hormones are gonna be at different place in the cycle. The first half of the cycle is gonna be the follicular phase, where estrogen starts to go up around day 2. Day 3, it taps out around day 12 to 13. And then it drops as progesterone rises. That’s where your ovulation is.That estrogen drops and progesterone rise is where ovulation is. Progesterone comes up to the top. Estrogen nears down low and they both dropped together around day 27 and day 28 to signal bleeding. And again, the reason why this is an issue is, because if you if you can’t pull estrogen or pull progesterone all at the right time, then that can throw off the cycle. Because if estrogen and progesterone aren’t dropping exactly when it should, you’re not gonna have adequate menstruation. It may delay things. It may slow off your cycle. So because of that, I don’t like creams on my cycling female patients. I like to be really specifically progesterone exactly what days. I don’t want any spillover on either end. And I typically don’t use any estrogen with female hormone patients that are cycling because most women are estrogen dominant. And will typically be able to support the estrogen via the adrenal side via some of the DHEA and pregnenolone and some of the modulating herbs.

Evan Brand: So if you went to a standard MD or like an integrative MD, are they can be able to provide those sublinguals? I mean- how common is that? I know were talking about- sometimes we talk about subjects where the optimal thing is just unheard of in conventional. But I mean- is this sublingual, is this popular enough for some woman could go down the street to a clinic and get- get help with that?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uhm, most conventional medical doctors aren’t gonna- aren’t gonna be able to do the sublingual coz it’s just not in their wheelhouse. Uhm- some do troches which maybe a close second, right. A lot of them will do the pellets, and then most of them will do the creams. Just how they’re taught. You know, if you look at a lot of the ___, some of the anti-aging physicians, they’re gonna do more the creams. Dr.Jonathan Wright does this, but at least respect that it’s intravaginal. So you don’t have the subcutaneous build up. But again, I think the more important piece here to look at, is the adrenal aspect. We gotta look at the adrenals. And if anyone’s viewing right now, and wants to chime in, and ask a question via chat, feel free to do that. And we’d love to answer any of the questions that are on or related to the topic. This is a new thing we’re testing out. So the more people that engage or comment on this afterwards, that’s gonna motivate us to do more of these.

Evan Brand: Totally. Yes. So, the- you’ve hit on the good point, which is, yes- you can go there with the hormone replacement therapy. It has done good things. It can do good things, but I’m not prescribing it and I’m getting- I canprescribe but I’m not a prescribing MD. But just doing the stuff that I’ve done, I’ve been able to make 80, 85, 90% better in terms of symptoms that menopausal women are experiencing. And that’s with no drugs. That’s looking at the adrenals, that’s getting the gut infections taken care of, that’s looking at mitochondrial health, that’s getting rid of candida problems, that’s making sure they’re going to bed on time, that’s making sure they’ve revamped any type of cleaning products in their house. They’ve got the chemicals out, they ditch the plastic Tupperware’s. So all that stuff your adding 5%, 10%, 15% and then it just keeps adding up and then eventually, people are gonna feel much, much better.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Oh, absolutely. And I think the bit thing is you’re working on the adrenal piece like I mentioned. You’re also working on the diet, right. Your stabilizing blood sugar. One of the biggest stressors on the hormonal system is going to be blood sugar swings. The more you stabilize those blood sugars and keep that dialed in, you’re gonna takea lot of stress off the hormonal system. Also stress is gonna eat up progesterone. So kinda like the pregnonolone steal, which is you know-it’s theoretical. It makes sense. It’s just- Here’s howI tell patients. We’re prehistorically hardwired to allocate our resources to stress and inflammation now versus healing and recovery in fertility tomorrow. Why? Why is that? Well because if we don’t get through now, tomorrow never comes. So it’s like the 12-year-old boy procrastinating on the homework. If you’re chronically stressed, you keep on putting off the fertility in the recovery, in the- the recuperation that is needed. So we’re chronically hardwired to deal with stress right now. So the goal is to decrease that stress, so then your body can start to allocate that, and put the healing and recovery in the fertility higher up on the priority list.

Evan Brand: Well said. Yeah. And it’s crazy to me how you can go and you could complain of the symptoms up sounds like you’re in or you’re going to menopause.Here’s cream and have a nice day. And none of this other stuff is discussed. I mean, we’re looking at massive pieces of the pie that are just completely ignored.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Oh, yeah. Absolutely I would say the biggest issue I have when I was at the menopause summit last week with the with uh- with Bridget- Bridget Dainer, and one of the things they came off that we talked about was, I would say, one of the biggest things that is driven more menopausal patients to me, is this low-fat era. Avoiding animal proteins and healthy fats because that’s where a lot of your hormones come from. So if you don’t have that diet piece dialed in with the hormonal substrates, and the building blocks, and the healthy amino acids, you’re really at a significant disadvantage to being able to make your hormones on your own. So healthy fat-soluble nutrients, through grass-fed meat and Pasteur-fed meat and Pasteur-fed eggs, organic, free range, none of the chemicals. You don’t wanna add more Zeno estrogens in our meat to the- to the table, right. And throw off our hormones more. Healthy fish, egg yolks, if you can handle grass-fed buttering ghee, that’s great. Lots of vegetables, a glycemic or carbohydrate uh- balanced meal for you. So depending on starch, or no starch.Keeping grains out, keeping inflammatory foods out, keeping toxins out, and stabilizing your blood sugar, or not letting your blood sugar drop and not letting yourself get hungry is gonna be a great starting point for most people.

Evan Brand: Yes, I mean vegetarians, vegans specifically for women at this time, it’s gonna be brutal on them. If you’re vegetarian, vegan and you’re going into this phase in life, it’s gonna be really, really tough on you.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  It definitely will be now. If you are in that place, you know- I would try to coerce you in- and sell you on the fact that you probably want to eat some of these healthy animal proteins. At least cajole you and maybe some egg yolks, or tiny bit of fish, if I can do that. If I couldn’t do that, I will at least try to get you on some collagen proteins, uh- some really good P-protein. I’d even recommend you get some free form amino acid supplementation. I recommend lots of healthy fats via avocado- avocado oil, coconut oil. I will do Chia seed. Uhm- again, olive oil, low temperature. AndI would really work on the good fats, and I would make sure not going excessively high in the carbs. A lot of vegetarian by default become carbotarians. Again, I got in a lot of flak on this on YouTube, but it’s true. I’ve looked at hundreds of food logs of these types of patients and people. And I’ve seen it over and over again. The difference between me and you Evan, and the general public, is most people in the public, they only have an N=1. They have a torr experience. So if they extrapolate themselves, as is what everyone does, we seen it many, many hundreds, if not thousands of times over, most vegetarians become carbotarians with the grains and the excessive starch. So again, may not be an issue for you. I may not be speaking to you directly, but again that’s an issue that we do find on the vegetarian side.

Evan Brand: Agreed. Yeah. And we can look at the lab results, too. And I notice YouTube is the place where you get the most hate comments about vegetarian or, or- or veganism. If you’re- if you’re saying that that’s not a good- not a good thing to do, but we got the lab results to prove it. So when you got people out there saying look at this person, or look at this one doctor, or look at this one study, it’s like,“Hmm, I’m gonna look at the stuff that we’re doing in the trenches. I mean,  you and I are in the thousands of people that we’ve worked with now. And we see the direct correlation where when people start adding in the eggs, or they start adding in the good fats on a retest of let’s just say, adrenal cortisol pattern, for example. We may notice that the cortisol could get back into a good rhythm. Now granted there’s lifestyle components that were helping, there’s- there’s stress management, there’s the sleep, there’s the watching off of the blue light, etc. Getting good bright light in the morning, which is gonna be helpful. If you’re spending time in a dark room, cortisol is a light driven hormone, so if you’re waking up and you’re not opening the blinds, that’s a big issue, too. Wearing sunglasses, for example, but if your adrenals are stressed, you’re gonna want to wear sunglasses.  Some women they’re complaining of a bright light coming in, you definitely wanna get your adrenals tested. Because I’ve noticed that people I suspect- like I look around my family to see,  “Oh, I bet she’s got some adrenal issues”,“she’s always wearin’ those sunglasses”. That gets better when we support the adrenals. Bright lights don’t bother you as much.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. That’s a 100% true. I totally agree. Well, anything else we want to touch upon with menopause. We hit the adrenals. We hit the diet. We hit the blood sugar. We hit some of the supplementation. Again, some womendon’t necessarily need the bioidenticals, but some women do. And it really depends on what’s going on, how unbalanced the hormones are, and how bad their symptoms are. Again, the more their hormones are depleted, you may need a strong bailout, a fast bailout with a little bit of hormone support. So I don’t wanna keep my female patient suffering. So we’ll use a little bit of that. And as long as we’re testing, and were not guessing, were assessing, I feel very confident moving forward  with that.

Evan Brand: Agreed. Yeah. Well said. Well people let us know what you think of the live YouTube thing. I’ll be curious to hear the audio quality. I mean, you talking to me it sounds- it sounds perfect. So if it’s as good as us recording through Skype, and other methods, then I say we could just keep doing our shows like this.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:And again, we didn’t plan uhm- to do this show today. So I did one this morning off the cuff. I posted last night. So we had more viewers, but today was off the cuff so we don’t have too many viewers listening. But if anyone’s listening and wants to ask any questions, let us know. But I plan on- we’ll probably have hundreds, if not thousands, of people listening live very soon. When we start planning these out and it we’ll put it out in our emails. We’ll put on Facebook ahead of time so people know and they can come with your questions. Bzut anyone has any questions, actually we got a question here.What about liver health? And where to metabolize estrogens? Yeah. So regarding estrogen metabolism, this is important because I mentioned this earlier. We had E1, which is estrone and we have E2, which estradiol gets funneled downstream into estriol, okay. And what happened- this conversion happens to be at the liver. So E1 to E3 and E2 to E3, all happens in the liver. So anyone that has a liver issue, is gonna have a female hormone estrogen issue. So we wanna work on the liver. And also on the Dutch testing, we’ll look at the 2- hydroxyl, the 2-methoxy estrogen metabolism and we’ll look at the methylation meter and see if we’re having that one-to-one ratio of estrogen metabolism. So for 2-hydroxy estrogen of 1, do we have a 2- methoxy 1? Do we have this one-to-one metabolism? And that’s the methylation meter that we’re looking at on the test. If not, we could be uhm- essentially not getting rid of all the ashen. We could be re-absorbing that. Also, increase estrogen issues are gonna cause gallbladder issues. So again, you know- that the FFF role gallbladder issues, women that are overweight or fat, women that are- that’s the FFF, that’s just the accrued abbreviation. So overweight female, and 40 or up. So that this estrogen dominance thing. This is what goes, you list- I mean- I remember sitting in the many gallbladder surgeries, and those like FFF. Those are the three things the surgery would say. Are your overweight, female and over 40? Because the high amount of estrogen dominance, right. Makes the gallbladder- makes the bile flow from the gallbladder sluggish. So then what happens is two things. You can’t metabolize your hormones. A lot of that happens via the bile excretion. And then number two, you lose the ability to break down your uhm- fat-soluble vitamins. So gallbladder issues, and then fat metabolism, and then detox are common side effect of estrogen dominance. And that can happen leading into menopause. I can’t tell you how many of my female patient that are cycling have lost her gallbladder. And it really sets them up for nutritional efficiency and poor detoxification down the road.

Evan Brand: Oh, gosh. Well said. I mean- when I hear liver too, I just think of, like the GPL talks that you and I’ve chatted about with the gasoline additives and all these other chemicals in people’s bodies, aspirin and other- you know, pharmaceutical medications that increase the burden on the liver. So whether it was like statins, or hard drugs, or any of the stuff that that’s really tough on the liver. Alcohol, which a lot of women over 40, their stressed, they’ve got these symptoms, so they’re using wine you know, to put themselves to sleep. A glass or two a night which could increase the burden on the liver and messed this whole process up. Plus we’ve got parasite infections. You know 1 in 3 is what we’re seeing of infected people. Say you’ve got the toxic load there. And then if you got methylation issues, like you’ve mentioned, and you’re unable to detoxify, or you’ve got problems with the phase I or the phase 2. And you’re not taking something to conjugate those toxins and rattle them up and get them out your toes. So there’s a lot of different pieces that- that can be improved upon, for sure. Sço we always factor liver in. It’s not a matter of if we factor liver and detox into the protocol, it’s just a matter of when.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. Now we just say- making sure we- you toss upon earlier with the gut stuff and I think so many mainstream functional medicine practitioners, and I would say even the medical doctors, ignore the digestion part coz again, a lot of the detoxification happens with sulfur amino acids. So we have to make sure we have the sulfur amino acids, the phase 2 sulfur amino acids to run those liver pathway. Socysteine, glutamine, glycine, and the glutathione precursors uh- methionine, taurine, especially for the gallbladder, are gonna be super helpful for liver detox. Also making sure we eat a lot of the cruciferous vegetables. And again, if you have gut issues, make sure they’re cooked so the fiber’s broken down. So we can get the diindoylmethane and indole-3-carbinol, which is gonna be really important for estrogen detox. And again, this is your broccoli, your brussel sprouts,your cauliflower, your asparagus, your kale, spinach

Evan Brand: And your broccoli sprouts. I love broccoli sprouts.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes, broccoli sprouts. And again we have someone answering uh- or asking this question live. So we’re answering anyone else that wants to ask a question live. We’re both ready to sign out. So anyone else,uh- put something in the chat window, we love the answer to it. So to finish that question, what other herbs can we give? So for gallbladder, we wanna add maybe some extra bile salts. We wanna do some fringe trees, some artichoke roots, and phosphatidylcholine, some X taurine. These are great for the liver. Extra milk thistle, silymarin. These are great things and we may even give extra sulfur amino acids, antioxidants, B vitamins, extra folate. These are all great things to support the liver. And I’d also say make sure you’re not doing all the bad things regarding the pesticides, the chemical, the exogenous hormones. And again, this is where a little bit estriol may need to be given coz that if we have toxic liver, we may not be able to have that liver conversion goin’.

Evan Brand: Well said. Great job.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent. And we have a couple of other questions here. Uh- No, I did not go to the Super Bowl. No, not this year. It’s in Houston. I was thinking about it, didn’t make it down there. But I’m a huge Tom Brady fan. I think I know a lot of haters for that. But Tom Brady is the poster child for functional medicine, natural medicine. And the guy’s 40 years old and better shape than ever. And part of it is because of his diet,his eating,his sleeping, his training he sees a chiropractor, he sees an acupuncturist. The guy’s dialled in and is using natural medicine and functional medicine as his go to and not conventional medicine for his go to. So,huge fan of that. Anything else here, Evan?

Evan Brand: I don’t think so. Some people back to the website, check out Justin,  justinhealth.com Check me out notjustpaleo.com or type in Evan Brand. You’ll find us both. More content, more info, the ability to schedule consults with us. All of that’s there. So we do both offer 15-minute free call. So if you got questions, you wanna get your questions answered, reach out. You know, there’s no sense in suffering if you know that there’s a possibility to get better, go for it, time’s wastin’.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And if you guys listening, like this type of format, we want to do it more frequently. So give us- give us some love,give us the thumbs up. Uh- share it, put it on Facebook, email to your friends. We absolutely love it. And the more feedback we have, the more we wanna do this.

Evan Brand: Absolutely.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Excellent. Alright, Evan. Well this- the beautiful thing about this is,this thing goes live right away.So kinda exciting, instantaneous feedback for the listeners. Anything else in your end?

Evan Brand: No man, that’s it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Alright, man. Great chattin’.

Evan Brand: You too.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Take Care.

Evan Brand: Bye.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Bye.


Reference:

notjustpaleo.com

The many faces of adrenal dysfunction – Podcast #107

Dr. Justin Marchegiani and Evan Brand explain all about the adrenals and the functional medicine approach to fixing adrenal and gut issues. This podcast is part of the Adrenal Summit.

adrenal dysfunctionFind out how functional medicine is more convenient for the patient and how it contrasts with conventional medicine. Discover the specific lab tests and how they significantly differ in providing results from ones ordered by your conventional doctor. Learn the role of adrenals in the body and how important it is to have it functioning optimally at 100%.

In this episode, topics include:

03:28   Conventional medicine and the functional medicine approach

05:51   Adrenals

12:39   Adrenal dysfunction or adrenal fatigue

24:07   Labs

40:00   X-factors for infection

itune

 

 

youtuve

 

 

Evan Brand:  Dr. Justin Marchegiani, welcome to the summit. How are you?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Evan, it’s great, man. It’s like déjà vu all over again, right?

Evan Brand:  Isn’t it? Isn’t it? Well, cool. Well, tell people about what you do. You run a wellness clinic out of Austin, a worldwide functional medicine clinic. So tell people a little bit about yourself. How you got into this whole space? What led you to venture away from chiropractic and focus more on the science part of—of health and looking at hormones and adrenal lab tests and gut tests and all the things that you do.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Well, off the bat. This is for the Adrenal Summit. The summit you are hosting. So any of my listeners that’s listening to this on my podcast, Beyond Wellness Radio, feel free and head over to Evan’s site, notjustpaleo.com and sign up for his adrenal summit that he’s doing with Dr. Alan Christianson.  And then answering your question, so really functional medicine has evolved to the point now where virtual medicine is kinda taking over and it’s really convenient number one, for the patient, because the patients doesn’t have to drive back and forth to the doctor’s office and inconvenience their day and then sitting around this bland office, waiting to get, you know, serviced and treated by the doctor with these quick visits that are typically happening in conventional medicine. We can have this kinda of tele-medicine kinda situation whether—whether it—it’s phone or Skype and we can order all the lab work locally pretty much anywhere in the world. I mean, obviously domestic’s better in the US but we can still do it anywhere and that’s kinda changing medicine because we have the ability to check in with people on the diet and lifestyle side, create functional medicine programs, evaluate lab tests and there’s a level of convenience that’s really nice but also the ability to connect with someone so fast, face-to-face, to record calls that have a lot of digital aspects to it with the website and a lot of the podcasts and videos supporting the healing, I think really makes it more convenient and easier to get better.

Evan Brand:  Makes sense, so you would argue, you’re almost not missing out on much. Maybe the physical touch element that you would have in clinic but beyond that there’s really not anything that—that’s—that you’re losing by working virtually.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, I mean I would say a good physical exam is always great but I mean, we can fret out a lot of that information in a good metabolic assessment or handout where we ask more in-detail questions about skin and rashes and—and fingernail, you know, ridging and such, and maybe hair quality or you know, different energy things that we can fret just with good metabolic questionnaires, but it’s nice to be able to have a—a physical interaction but all my patients typically, they’ve already seen doctors anyway, so they’ve already been at least evaluated from a physical perspective. I mean, if someone’s got a—a tumor in the back of their neck, right? You know, when we’re on Skype you may not be able to see that. So it’s nice to get that kinda crossed off our list before we begin.

Evan Brand:  Right, right, and then that’s something I noticed, too. Most people have already been through a handful of doctors or specialists so they’ve already had all of the baseline, the conventional stuff done that would pick up anything that would be alarming. So now we’re looking deeper.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, and it’s nice for us to dig in knowing that those conventional pathologies have been crossed off because it really allows us to kinda really zone in super focused on what could be there on the functional side and not have to be as observant of the—the pathological situations which typically they’re more in your face anyway, right?

Evan Brand:  Exactly.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Evan Brand:  Tell people a little bit about the compare and contrast between conventional medicine and the functional medicine approach. And if you wanna use the context of adrenals or something else, then you can. I think that would be a good starting—good starting point.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Great. So overall in functional medicine, I give this comparison to my patients. Functional medicine and conventional medicine, it’s like a light switch. Functional medicine is the light switch that’s the really cool dimmer switch. It can go off and on, and there’s a spectrum. You can have it just a little bit on. You can have it in the middle. You can have it almost off. You can have it all the way on, right? So you have the ability to have various intervals of how high or how low that light is. Now with conventional medicine, the light’s either off or on. In other words, if the light’s on, you’re healthy. If it’s off, you’re deceased, right? That’s conventional medicine. Now let’s say the light’s just a little bit flickering in the functional model, right? We got the dimmer switch, right? It’s on just a little bit. Well, if you go to the conventional doctor, they’re gonna say, I see light; therefore, you’re fine. But on the functional spectrum, we say, “Yeah, we see light but it’s—the light’s kinda like 90% off, right?” So let’s work on ratcheting that dimmer switch up to 100%, 100% being 100% function. So conventional medicine, any bit of light, you’re fine. You’re normal. Hey, keep coming back. I’m gonna write you a prescription for depression. If you’re a female, maybe we’ll—we’ll recommend some birth control pills or both. Right? That’s typically the conventional medical solution. In functional medicine, we have the philosophical approach of the dimmer switch, so we can pretty much no matter where you are in that light spectrum work on ratcheting you up into the right direction.

Evan Brand:  Excellent analogy. Now most people what they do for you and I both something we’ve noticed is many people wait until they’re ridden with health symptoms before they come to reach out and get help with functional medicine but the analogy you used just proved something that I’ve been hoping for all along which is that someone who is relatively healthy overall may be just has a couple of little kinks in their armor somewhere. They can still come and get help and feel new energy or feel an increased sex drive. Something that they’ve wanted or feel less bloating, even though they are “okay” by any other practitioner standard.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Correct. So can you reiterate that question one more time? I didn’t quite get the full question.

Evan Brand:  Yeah, that was just a statement, that wasn’t a question.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Okay, got it.

Evan Brand:  Yeah, so let’s talk about–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I agree.

Evan Brand:  Let’s talk about adrenals. This is the—one of the first steps that you do when you’re working with patients is looking into the adrenals which you and I both kinda break it down, adrenals, gut, detox, hormones, which is just so beautiful–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Evan Brand:  And I thank you for all the mentorship that you provided to me, even over this past year every single week, we’re—we’re digging in together.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Love it.

Evan Brand:  So I appreciate that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  No problem.

Evan Brand:  Now let’s talk about why adrenals have to be first in a functional medicine program. Eventually we’re gonna talk about why most people are not getting results from that. But why can’t you just go straight to the gut if someone has issues there? Why—why do you have at adrenals?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Great question. So let’s—I’m gonna use my last patient that I had just before our call here as an example and that’s the nice things about us in—in the podcast that we do and the summits that you’re doing and then the interviews that I do, is we have a functional medicine clinical perspective that we bring to and that perspective and that allows people to not just a theoretical kinda look into it, but actually, hey, what’s working in the trenches? Because in the end, you know, it’s better to be coached by someone that’s doing it than who’s just doing it theoretically. So on that note, I just had a patient and we got some of her labs back in. We had a DUTCH adrenal test with female hormones. We had a thyroid test and we also had a gut test—two gut tests—an organic test that looked at bacterial function as well as a GI Map test and a DRG test. Now on those tests, on the female hormone and the adrenal side, her adrenal hormone levels were okay. Like if we looked at how much amount of hormones she was pumping out, she’s pretty good. The issues were very aberrant timing. Very low in the morning, high in the afternoon, and very low at night. So there was this timing issue throughout the day and that created mood swings and energy dips. Number two, she had thyroid issue. So she had elevated TSH. She had very poor T4 levels and even poor T4 to T3 conversion. So there were thyroid issues. We need thyroid hormone to metabolize the building blocks to make hormones. i.e. cholesterol comes down the hormonal cascade. It gets acted upon by thyroid hormone to break it down into building blocks so it can actually be used to—to make some of these hormonal constituents. And last but not the least, this woman’s female hormones were very low. She’s already post menopausal but she had very low estrogens—almost non-existent—very low progesterone, and very low DHEA. And so as a woman into menopause, the backup generator so to speak are the adrenals. And this is—being in the Adrenal Summit, this is important because the adrenals become this backup generator for sex hormone function once menopause hits and is through.

Evan Brand:  Say that one more important, I think that’s profound.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, so DHEA, one of the major building blocks—DHEA sulfate from the adrenals becomes this major building block for your sex hormones once the ovaries are in the menopause. So it becomes the backup menopause. So I always tell patients, imagine you got this generator. You spend a—a bunch money on it. It’s sitting on your garage or whatever, so when that storm comes, you can still have power, right? Now most people want that generator 100% charged. That’s the goal. So then when you plug it in, it works and everything is at 100% capacity. Like there’s no lapse in function between the storm and—and being in the storm so to speak. But now you got this generator, it’s in the garage. It’s 90% empty. So you got 10% of fuel capacity in there and you’re trying to get 100% function out of our house, right? You want the heat, you want the AC, you want everything to work. But that’s not gonna happen or at least not for long when the charge is that low, and that’s like your adrenals being on low. So now instead of the storm or instead of the heat wave coming, now we got stress. We have family issues, financial issues, kid issues, job issues, up and down s stressors that normally happen in life. They’re like the thunderstorm or the heat wave that comes in, stressing your house’s electrical system. So supporting the adrenals really helps buffer out the hormones and hormones aren’t just to have babies. Hormones, they’re there to reproduce, right? Have a child but also reproduce you, meaning every cell in the body—hair, skin, nails, muscle, tissue, bones—all of these important things as you get older become more important because who doesn’t want to have healthy skin, healthy nails, you know, have decreased chance of being osteoporotic, having weak bones, weak muscles? Everyone as they age wants to age as gracefully as possible and having strong adrenals is paramount to that goal.

Evan Brand:  Excellent. So talk about this female—people wanna know well, what does this feel like? You mentioned some—some geeky lab results here. What does that actually translate to? What would this person be—how would they be going through their day?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Oh, great question. So especially women with the sex hormones, because women have that drop, right? They’re cycling. Now they’re not cycling. It typically takes a year or so to make that transition. So now they’re not cycling. One of the big first issues we’re gonna see are hot flashes, right? Typically FSH starts to rise, that’s the brain hormone that says to the ovaries, “Wake up! Wake up!” So FSH is trying to, you know, wake them up and that can start to create some hot flashes with the vasodilation. We can start feeling more moody, right? Mood issues, irritability, even can see things like depression, okay? I already mentioned depression, mood stuff, sleep issue is a big one. We can start to see hair quality, skin quality issues, and also lower libido. So all those are all common symptoms, and also fatigue and brain fog because–

Evan Brand:  Yeah, and–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  These hormones are antioxidants, right? So they help with stress and inflammation so the more your hormones are off, the more inflammation can kinda be like a—a wildfire without a firefighter to put it in check so to speak.

Evan Brand:  Yeah, and so you mentioned low cortisol, so she’s probably waking up, not feeling ready to start the day, maybe needing some caffeine, coffee to get going.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Exactly and then also the swings in cortisol, too, right? Remember when we look at adrenal function, I think we’ll get to this later when we dig into more lab assessment and lab testing, we not only look at adrenal levels because this woman’s levels they weren’t bad. They were actually in the middle of the range but the rhythm piece wasn’t good and the sex hormone piece wasn’t good. So when we look at adrenals, we have a 3-pronged approach on how we assess it. Number one’s gonna be cortisol rhythm, because we have to recognize when we look at adrenal issues, it’s not just, “Oh, do you have adrenal fatigue or not?” Right? It’s how’s the rhythm? How’s the HPA axis, the brain, the HP? The hypothalamus, pituitary talking to the adrenals, that’s number one. Number two is how’s the actual amount? What’s the adrenals actually making? Is that enough to support function? And then number three, how’s the sex hormone piece? So in this lady, rhythm wasn’t good, amount was okay, but sex hormones were low. So she was missing two out of the three, so she’s going up to the plate with 2 strikes on her.

Evan Brand:  Wow. So let me ask you this. If you see normal adrenal output, so you see normal hormone levels–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Evan Brand:  Well, let’s just say everything was normal, but it was dysfunctional. Do you call that adrenal dysfunction or do you classify that adrenal fatigue?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Well, I don’t like the word adrenal fatigue. I think adrenal fatigue can be a good way to describe people that have low sex hormones and very low cortisol, because that kinda be called adrenal fatigue because everything’s starting to become more depressed which is good. The problem is a lot of people confuse adrenal fatigue and adrenal failure maybe because there’s 2 F’s that start the words—I don’t know. But adrenal failure is kinda like Addison’s disease, right? That’s more of where there’s an autoimmune attach on the adrenals and the adrenals literally are barely functioning and there’s almost not enough cortisol to even get through daily requirements.

Evan Brand:  And how often have you actually seen that compared to what we’d typically work with which is more adrenal dysfunction?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I have only seen one case of Addison’s disease in my practice which is adrenal failure.

Evan Brand:  And this among— yeah, and this among thousands–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Thousands of patients.

Evan Brand:  Of patients, so–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Most people know when they have Addison’s because they literally cannot get out of bed. I mean, if you go look back in the history books, cortisol was created I think synthetically or bioidentically in the 50s and one of the things, one of the major reasons why John F Kennedy, JFK, won the presidential race in the 60s is the won the Senate in the mid-50s up in Massachusetts where I’m from and they had just found out a way to create cortisol. So he started taking it for his Addison’s disease and you can literally see his face and his muscles all start to fill out because he did not have enough cortisol. So if you look at pictures of him in the mid-50s or early 50s, he’s absolutely gaunt. But then you look at him in the 60s during the presidential debates he looks amazing, and part of that was that cortisol shift and that’s what happens when you have cortisol failure. You literally just—you look terrible.

Evan Brand:  Wow.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And you feel terrible.

Evan Brand:  Wow. Okay, so that’s pretty rare overall for Addison’s. So typically somebody’s gonna be in that 99% range where–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Evan Brand:  You’re having good cortisol or just completely horrible. Most people are existing somewhere bet—between Cushing’s which is super high all the time or Addison’s where you can’t make enough.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, it’s the dimmer switch, right?

Evan Brand:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So let’s say off, that’s Addison’s. On, that’s Cushing’s, right? Alright, think Cush-push. Alright, that’s how we learned it in school. Cush-push, it’s high. Addison’s is failure, okay? And most people, right? On as Cushing’s, off as Addison’s—most people are on that dimmer switch somewhere in between.

Evan Brand:  So probably 99% of the people and you and I have both had patients who have diagnosed themselves with Addison’s but then we’ve looked and it wouldn’t be an Addison’s scenario. They’ve just been–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  yeah.

Evan Brand:  Almost fear mongered because when you look into the conventional research about adrenal fatigue or adrenal dysfunction, you’re typically not gonna find much. You’re gonna find WebMD’s approach which is Addison’s or Cushing’s. That’s all you’re gonna read about. So this just goes to show the importance of the work that you’re doing and the work that you and I do together, recording podcasts–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Evan Brand:  Weekly because we’re seeing this stuff. It is real.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Evan Brand:  And it’s not in your head.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Evan Brand:  And you’re not crazy if you’re dealing with these symptoms that—that you’ve discussed.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I 100% agree. Now I like the word adrenal dysfunction because they kinda gives you a lot of latitude to—to address HPA axis stuff. Maybe the cortisol is not low. Maybe it’s a rhythm issue. Maybe it’s a sex hormone issue. I think adrenal fatigue can be more aptly described to be put on a label of like very low cortisol, very low sex hormones, alright? But people still conflate it with failure. So remember, adrenal fatigue is not adrenal failure, and a better word maybe be just adrenal dysfunction to look at it and that really–

Evan Brand:  Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Puts in the key issue that a lot of people are looking at. It becomes more of a brain issue than an adrenal issue, right? The HP—the brain’s not talking to the adrenals. And then also when we add in the gut issues, we know there’s certain nutrients that are required to make the adrenals run optimally—vitamin C, pantothenic acid, B5, zinc. And if we have digestive issues which will eventually go there soon, that could be a driving factor of why the adrenals aren’t running as well and most people in Adrenal Land totally miss the gut piece of it.

Evan Brand:  Absolutely. Well, let’s transition there now. That’s basically phase 2 which is the gut and many people which you and I have kinda come up with an average of about 1 in 3 people have infections.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I’d say 1 in 2 to some degree. I mean, obviously when we look at infections, there’s a difference in severity. Let’s say a bacterial overgrowth vs dysbiosis or a full-on parasitic infection or a combo of all three, right?

Evan Brand:  Right, which maybe we a have a little bit of bias–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Evan Brand:  Population since we’re with people that have all these symptoms so maybe the average person out there but even if you look at like World Health Organization, they’re saying that, you know, 20% or greater of the US population has Blastocystis hominis.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yes, I know.

Evan Brand:  A common parasite and this is–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Evan Brand:  Something we see weekly at this point, so it’s like, wow, a lot of people are going undiagnosed and I’m sure that’s kinda the lens that you wanted to start this—this topic on is people are going to “adrenal fatigue specialists or adrenal fatigue experts”. We’ve seen some adrenal programs online and typically the gut piece is ignored. Is that why people are—are suffering and not getting results?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  That’s a big part of it. So when we look at the symptom of fatigue, right? You have fatigue. Now a lot of people because of education in functional medicine, people are linking up fatigue as adrenals. Right? I kinda have my fatigue triangle, right? On the top part of the fatigue triangle, we have the adrenals because the adrenals help regulate glucocorticosteroid aka cortisol which helps regulate energy and inflammation. Most people are low energy and also inflamed, so it makes sense why the adrenals are in poor shape. So top part of the triangle is the adrenals. The bottom parts are gonna be the thyroid and the mitochondria. Okay, the thyroid is there to help regulate metabolism. With low thyroid, we’re not gonna be able to have the building blocks to break down the healthy levels of corti—cholesterol and to building blocks to make hormones, number one. And thyroid controls temperature and resting metabolism. If you have a low resting temperature and metabolism, you’re not gonna be able to generate energy as well. That’s important.

Evan Brand:  So let me ask you this, too. How does Hashimoto’s play into this, too? Because this is something also that typically goes undiagnosed. Autoimmune thyroid issues where they’ve never been tested. They’ve never even had that looked at.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, great question. So Hashimoto’s gonna hit the thyroid part of that triangle, but it really is a combination of all three because when you have Hashimoto’s, typically there’s immune system upregulation where the immune system’s attacking the thyroid gland so that creates inflammation. So if we have inflammation, then guess what’s in overdrive? The adrenal is in overdrive to help with the inflammation. The thyroids are being attacked by the immune system. So that means, these various little follicles are being attacked by the immune cells so they’re bursting open and thyroid hormone goes up and it goes down, so early on you can feel like you’re on a rollercoaster ride. You may even be diagnosed hyper to begin with. You may have anxiety and depression during the—during the swings of thyroid hormone being released. So it can be this up and down rollercoaster, and let’s not forget autoimmune conditions, typically there has to be some level of leaky gut happening. So we have leaky gut whether it’s some gluten exposure, various infections like Lyme or Blasto or Yersinia enterocolitica or H. pylori so you see how the gut starts to interplay with the adrenals and how the adrenals interplay with the thyroid and how the thyroid actually interplays back with the adrenals because we need healthy levels of cortisol to help activate and convert thyroid hormone. So you can see if we have adrenal dysfunction, that can start to create thyroid issues, too. And this patient I just saw, she—it was on Synthroid for 30 years, 150mcg dose which is equal to about a gram and a half of Armour or NatureThroid which is a pretty hefty dose for someone that still has her thyroid, right? But she still had low levels of T4, very poor T4 to T3 conversion, and their TSH was still high. She being medicated by endocrinologist for 30 years.

Evan Brand:  Wow.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So we had to go in there and change that thyroid support a bit. Support it a little bit more but also fix the adrenals and the big thing was fixing the gut because she had a significant amount of small intestinal bacterial overgrowth and we know the gut bacteria is really important with the enzyme sulfatase which is produced by healthy gut bacteria to activate the T3 acetic acid and sulfate and activate thyroid hormone in the gut.

Evan Brand:  Wow, that’s amazing. And so people that don’t know, if—if you don’t listen to my podcast or you don’t listen to Justin’s podcast already, I showed up with 2 parasite infections about a year ago and Justin was the guy that told me. I went over to his house and I think we were just hanging out or you were gonna give me an adjustment or something–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Evan Brand:  And I said, “Justin”. I said, “Help me. What’s going on?”  I said, “I’ve lost 25 lbs without trying.” He took one glance at me and he goes, “Evan, you got a parasite.” And it hit me and I was kinda like, “Yeah, I mean. Maybe.” And I—I put off testing. You were like, “You need to go get your gut checked out. Go get a test.” And I was like, “Okay, okay.” And so I finally got hold of the lab. I said, “I’ll get a test kit.” I ran it. I showed up with Cryptosporidium and Giardia—two parasites that are pretty—pretty bad. They’re not the funnest parasites to have and since working on those, I’ve been able to build more muscle. I’ve been able to gain more weight. When I ran my adrenals, I showed up with what I would consider adrenal dysfunction, if not adrenal fatigue; my cortisol was low all day. So that just goes to show that even a younger guy who is pretty active—I spend a lot of time outdoors. My diet is—is much—is close to 100% organic as possible, I still had adrenal issues and I’m gonna go ahead and say it was due to the—the stuff going on in the gut. What about you?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  100%! I agree with 100%. A lot of people that have adrenal issues, they miss the gut piece and it’s so hard because people are programmed to think of gut issues as diarrhea, bloating, like these are symptoms that are associated with a gut issue. So when you start to tell someone that they’re fatigued; it could be from a gut issue or their brain fog or their mood issues, could be from a gut problem, they’re like it’s so hard to get your head wrapped around that.

Evan Brand:  So basically what happens is and not to put words in your month, you can elaborate as much as possible–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yup.

Evan Brand:  But in these situations you’re basically, you’re getting robbed because you are feeding these bacterial overgrowths. You’re feeding these yeast. You’re feeding these parasites and you’re not feeding yourself and myself even today looking at my fingernails, I do still have the vertical ridging, which that’s not always 100% indicator, but it told us there was some type of malabsorption going on. It was just a matter of getting the right testing done to figure out what was going on. So maybe we could—if you wanna comment on that and then we can talk about what tests need to be run for people to get an accurate diagnosis of what’s going on.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So speaking clinically to your situation, there may still be another infection or two still lingering. So I know we’re waiting to hear back on some of those re-tests so it’ll be interesting to see what happens with you and it’ll be interesting to see how your fingernails change over time. Not to mention, this could be a long-time coming to, right? So it may not just shift overnight. So we just gotta keep an eye on it.

Evan Brand:  Yup. Do you–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Go ahead.

Evan Brand:  Do you—yeah, I was gonna say, do you wanna talk about the labs and then do you want to reveal what you found on your labs?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, that would be cool. I would just say one more thing here because when we deal with fatigue and adrenals issues, I created this analogy because for me it really just rings true and analogies are great because you don’t have to memorize. You just have to understand it and it sticks, right? So that’s why I like it. So my analogy is the adrenals, it’s like let’s pretend you’re in a car. It’s a stick shift. It’s a standard transmission, okay? So the adrenals are like your ability to shift gears, alright? Going from 1st gear to 2nd gear, 2nd gear to 3rd—3rd gear. That’s like your body’s ability to handle more stress, right? The higher up in the gears you go, the faster your car’s going, the more stress on the engine. Your ability to downshift is your body’s ability to adapt to stress. To kinda get back to homeostasis or that parasympathetic rest and relax state. So the being it—being able to shift gears up and down is being able to upregulate and downregulate to stress. That’s number one. Number two, your resting metabolism, so if you put a car in neutral, yeah, you put it right in neutral, you could pull your foot out of the clutch now, it won’t stall it out. And typically you’ll be at about 700 to 1,000 RPMs on average, okay? Now that’s like a good resting metabolism or resting RPM for the car. If you go too low, anyone that drives a stick knows their car will stall out, right? If you go too high, well, now you’re putting extra stress on the car and it may burn out. It may red line. So think of neutral as the resting metabolism of the engine and then think of the mitochondria or the nutrients needed for the car to run as like the gasoline and the lubricants that are in the engine and in the gas tank that provide the fuel for the car to run so on one hand, we have the ability to shift up and shift down as being able to deal with stress. The resting metabolism is kinda the thyroid piece. The nutrients required for the car to run, right? The substrate, the oil, the gas, etc. is the mitochondria and then all that stuff feeds into the gut and feeds the detox pathways and feeds the brain so when we have an issue with those 3 things, other things tend to be at root as well.

Evan Brand:  So it’s all connected and you can’t just focus on–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Evan Brand:  One piece of the puzzle because what’s gonna happen, you’re gonna come and maybe re-test your hormones if you ever got them tested in the first place and they’re gonna look probably the same and your symptoms are still gonna be there, is that right?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Correct. 100%!

Evan Brand:  Wow.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And regarding my test, I just came back with an E. histo parasite so I’m treating that as well. My actually came back with H. pylori and Blasto. And this is her second time with Blasto.

Evan Brand:  Wow. So–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So it’s hard to say you know, where these things are coming from? And we—we waterski every week and you know, you take a mouthful of water every now and then, so who knows, right? We also have some pets. We have our dog, Butter, who is hanging out with me right now and then a couple of cats, Mischa and Dexter, and you know, they like to be friendly and stuff, so who knows maybe we got some from them, but you know, you fix what you find.

Evan Brand:  Exactly.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  You get the testing done. You clear it out because I think it’s everyone’s right to be infection-free and we wanna make sure that we have that opportunity.

Evan Brand:  Agreed, agreed. And I would consider you definitely one of the best, not just online but in general one of the best functional medicine practitioners out there that are actually looking at this stuff and not only helping people to be healthy but doing in a way that’s fun. Now this is isn’t a video—this isn’t a video interview for the summit side of things but I’m looking at you here and you smile the entire time. You love this stuff.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Love it, man. It’s great.

Evan Brand:  Isn’t it?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Well, it’s—the thing is it’s incredibly rewarding. I mean, I say that we have the best jobs in the world because when you have patients come in to your office that have really bounced around the conventional medical establishment for a while, they have maximized their options, and when you can help them get to the root cause of why they’re feeling the way they’re feeling, it’s great. It’s really exciting. It’s like you’re a—a CSI detective on TV. You know, it’s great.

Evan Brand:  I know. Does it ever—does it ever hit you and kind of trip you out a little bit when—because it—this happened to me last week when you are working with someone and they’ve been to 10 or 12 specialist, but yet they’ve never had some of these basic foundational functional medicine tests run?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of people in functional medicine, a lot of them may have a really big conventional medicine background so they look incredibly myopically at certain things under a functional medicine light, like maybe they look at the adrenals and they’re so myopic on the adrenals but then they forget the gut or they’re looking at the gut but they forget the thyroid or they forget malabsorption pieces so I think people they—they don’t have a good clinical hierarchy model of where to treat and they’re lens is so focused on one thing they, you know, they’re looking at the trees but they’re missing the forest so to speak.

Evan Brand:  Right, and when I talk with Alan about this summit, I said, “I basically want this to be the anti-summit summit because a lot of these people that are in summits, the interviewees are not clinicians.“

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  They aren’t.

Evan Brand:  They may have some of these credentials but they’re typically not working with people. They’re not in the trenches and so I commend you for your work in the trenches on a daily, weekly, monthly, yearly basis, not only that working with people but also putting out the content because I think that really shows that you’re putting in the effort and you’re not just reading a book and then regurgitating something because something I found is it doesn’t matter how educated you are or how many letters you have after your name if you’ve not been in the trenches, you cannot successfully get people better because you don’t understand the psychology that foes into this about people having to make the changes and being there as sort of a therapist as well to support them if there are any effects. You know? Let’s just say you’re killing off an infection, you may feel a little bit worse before you feel a little bit better for the first couple of days and being able to have the expertise to know that and forewarn them of it, it’s priceless. So you know, people definitely check out Justin’s site. It’s justinhealth.com and you can go look into the podcasts. There’s probably 100 episodes released by the time you listen to this and I’m honored to be the co-host of that show for many of the episodes and we—we have fun just like we’re doing here. So you can check him out there. Obviously we could go on and on for hours, but I think you get the gist of it here is that, you just—one, you have to go check out his content but two, you really have to look at this whole adrenal piece as a puzzle, but it’s a puzzle that’s solvable, right?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  100%, 100%. And I appreciate your kind words there and I think the big thing that we do on the podcast is we really bring that clinical experience because you know, I have a lot of clinical friends and colleagues that are—they have their head in—in the literature, the scientific literature which I think it’s great and maybe you can draw a lot of inferences from what to do next, but I think the best thing is one, work on yourself, and then number two, observing how patients respond to and from different interventions and treatments is the absolute best learning experience for any doctor. I think having the clinical context before you go in is gonna be important because then you know where to put the different puzzle pieces to start, right?

Evan Brand:  Right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So that gives us the ability to kinda put it in the right order and we’re fortunate to have mentors like Dr. Kalish and Dr. Timmons when he was alive regarding how and the best ways to treat people for success. So we all know that we try to avoid heavy metal stuff first, right? We try to avoid doing gut-killing stuff at first. We may even try to do—avoid detox stuff at first. Now again, there are exceptions to all these rules but that’s the general trend in which we’ve worked on things and the adrenals and the thyroid and the adrenals and the hormones tend to always be the first thing that we do and it makes a big difference when you line it up in the right order. You could find the right things but you put the puzzle pieces in the wrong order, the picture may not look as clear.

Evan Brand:  Absolutely, so if you’re something out there and I’m sure you are if you found this summit, who you’ve googled your symptoms or you’ve looked on some Paleo health blogs and you’ve read about some detox formula or you’ve read about some cleanse or a gallbladder flush with olive oil and there’s just all sorts of crazy stuff out there and a lot of people don’t have a clear direction. Here’s the clear direction if you’ve been looking for it because I get goosebumps saying this because it’s been able to help my health. It’s been able to help thousands of patients–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Evan Brand:  On your side of things, nearly a thousand on my side of things, this is approach—an approach that actually makes sense. You see that there’s no dogma attached to it. Justin’s telling how it is and telling it to you straight. There’s no fluff.  There’s no fancy words if there are they’re broken down into analogies. This stuff can be very complicated. It is all tied together but at the end of the day, it comes down to some simple takeaways. So maybe as we wrap this thing up together you could sort of boil all this down for people and give them a clear direction of what they can do next or what steps they’ve ignored for 40 years that need to be taken now.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Awesome. So number one, a couple of the interventions that you’ve mentioned, right? You mentioned like gallbladder flushes or maybe coffee enemas or this thing or that thing may not be necessarily be bad, but it’s like you have this 500-piece puzzle and I give you 1 piece and it’s like solve it.  Well, I—I need a little bit more clarity on—on what the heck’s going on for where to put that piece down, right? And I think that’s where having the clinician approach to get the diet and lifestyle dialed in; that’s always foundational, right? That’s the foundational piece. You wanna build a big skyscraper or you wanna build a small 2-story house, you always start with the foundation first. And again, the higher up you wanna go, the deeper that foundation is. That’s number one and we always start with the diet and the lifestyle. So anti-inflammatory, nutrient-dense, low toxin type of Paleo template where the macronutrients can be adjusted and certain foods can be pulled in or out like salicylates, phenols, FODMAPs, again we adjust that according to how messed up someone’s gut or digestion is. Blood sugar, eating every 4 or 5 hours if possible. If we can’t even handle that because eating too much food causes problems we may have to adjust what we eat. And then the next piece I think is I mentioned before getting clarity where that puzzle piece goes. That’s where the lab tests really are helpful because they can tell us what’s going on deeper but also it can give the patient a lot of confidence that what they’re dealing with is real. Because a lot of people that I’ve seen, they bump their head up against the wall so many times with doctors that have told them it’s not real or its’ all in their head and they don’t even know what’s fact from fiction so we can get clarity on what’s real and what’s not and then we could measure it and check back in. That one, it keeps the patient excited. It’s like, you know, you’re sitting there in your term class, right? In your—in your class throughout the semester and you know, why are you gonna study and do your homework if there’s no test at the end, right? So the test at the end is the re-test or it’s the reassessment or it’s the follow-up. So people sit in class and pay attention when there’s a test. So I like the ability to get a starting point, create the anticipation of hey, we’re gonna follow-up and then know there’s gonna be accountability along the way, so I think working with a practitioner that has those types of foundation pieces in between are really important.

Evan Brand:  Agreed. I can’t tell you any greater feeling than looking at a re-test and you find someone that’s suffered for 20, 30 years and then you see the infection’s gone.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Evan Brand:  It’s like, ahh, you could take a breath when you see stuff like that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And you see the adrenals start to heal or you see thyroid levels start to get back into balance.

Evan Brand:  So–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So I think those are really important.

Evan Brand:  What would you say, just in a—in a general sense if someone just feels like I’ve done everything. I’ve tried the herbs. I’ve tried the adaptogens. I’ve had the natural thyroid support. And I still spun my wheels. How am I supposed to—can I truly get better?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Well, I would say, number one, there may be something missing on the digestive side. So I would say, off the bat, look at your nails. Look at your regularity. Look at your bowel movements. Are you a Bristol stool chart #4? Or do your nails look decent? Do you have good digestion without gas and bloating and reflux and irritation? Is that 100% good as well? And let’s say it is. We should still get it looked at because if you’ve done all the—the body system one test which is what you kind of alluded to which is like the thyroid, the adrenals, all the supplements to support that but there are other pieces that really haven’t been looked at or maybe their symptoms alluding that we should look there, that has to be looked at next, and we really have to do a thorough analysis. Maybe even multiple tests side by side to make sure nothing’s being missed.

Evan Brand:  Well-said.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Because I can’t tell you how many tests I see from other patients coming in where I already know, you know, pardon my French, this lab sucks, right? I’m not gonna say the name of it. This lab over here—and we talked about this before—they run one lab from this crappy lab and we’re like, “Oh, man. That lab stinks. It definitely missed it.” And then we don’t even run that lab. We run other labs that we consider to be better based on our thousands of data points on it, and we see even the good lab misses one, but the other lab pulls something up. And it’s like, wow, if we didn’t use this really good labs to begin with and if we didn’t use one or two side by side, we wouldn’t even have picked it up. So most patients are already coming in. They’re having lab tests that may be subpar on the gut and they’re saying, “No, I’m fine. Look, I’m fine. No problem.” And it’s like, just maybe be a little bit more skeptical if you haven’t done the right test and you haven’t done multiple tests that I consider to be the—the good test, right? And—and we would say like maybe the 401H and the DRG and the GI Map would be some good tests that we put out stamp of approval on. Maybe even the one by Doctor’s Data, too, is a pretty good one. But I like to say at least 2 of those and definitely having the DNA one in there to be—to look at it and really round out our assessment.

Evan Brand:  Yeah, so I’ll—I’ll add a note to that, too. I had a female patient who struggled forever and ever. She went to conventional doctor who then made the referral to the gastroenterologist, a very common step that they’ll make.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Evan Brand:  She got the stool test at the hospital. She showed up with no infection. So she thought I’m fine. “Evan, it’s just a yeast problem. Can you help support me for yeast? Getting rid of yeast.” I was skeptical. I thought, “Okay, this doesn’t make sense.” So we ran—when Justin said 401H, that’s by a company called BioHealth. We both use it–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Evan Brand:  And love them.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yup, they’re great.

Evan Brand:  We ran—we ran the 401H and she still showed up negative. So even I was almost convinced at this point. So I said, “Well, okay, well let’s try to knock out the candida.” Let’s go for another 4-6 weeks, see what happens. Bloating, excessive distention was still there so then we ran the other tests that you mentioned, the GI Map which is by a company—in case people are trying to find them—it’s Diagnostic Solutions Lab.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Evan Brand:  And she showed up with Dientamoeba.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yup.

Evan Brand:  A parasite infection. We finally found it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Evan Brand:  So even some of the best of the best test that you just alluded to, sometimes there will be false negatives and you’re gonna need to go and do 2 or 3 or maybe even 4 test panels looking at different things, whether it was stool or urine, etc. to actually find something because if you have a feeling in your gut that something’s not right in your gut–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Pun intended.

Evan Brand:  Your gut feeling is probably right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah. Absolutely. And I’d say here’s the kicker right now. And this is like I think this bothers a lot of people but I just put it out there so they’d know it in advance. The more you can predict what—what’s gonna happen good or bad, patients have faith in you. So I think it’s really important to make sure patients have faith because they’re taken, you know, a lot of what you say to heart. So the big thing is, sometimes when we re-test some of these gut infections we have a new infection. Okay, now there’s a couple of variables, a couple of reasons why. Number one, it could be the fact that as the gut heals, proximal to distal meaning into the middle part of the gut where the food resides versus into the gut wall, right? Where everything kind of emanates or it goes into, there can be deeper infections that are burrowed on deeper and it may come to the surface as the gut heals. And this is kind of theoretical in functional medicine, that’s called a crypt hyperplasia phenomenon that could potentially be happening. I’ve seen people with 4 or 5 infections burrowed in deeper and 1 or 2 comes out at a time. So–

Evan Brand:  Wow. So let me—let me kind of restate that so people are like, “What? What does that mean?” So basically, what happens is, you know, you’ll come in and you’ll find an infection. You’ll treat that in someone, that original infection’s gone, you get the re-test but now a new infection’s there. And you’re like, “What the?” So then you come in, you re-treat again.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Evan Brand:  That infection’s gone. Another one shows up. So you are really doing a great job of—of zooming in and zooming out here because if people–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Evan Brand:  Have been struggling with adrenal issues and you’re 4 or 5 infections deep. It’s gonna take a while before you get those adrenal hormones back online. It’s that safe to say.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  100%! Now I’m gonna give you guys a good visual analogy so anyone that’s listening to the show, go check out Beyond Wellness Radio and watch the YouTube of this. So imagine—I’m gonna pull out my spirit fingers, okay, here they are, they’re going—these are like the microvilli in the small intestine, okay? So imagine where my head is, right? This where the food is, in the more of the central part of the intestinal tract. Here are the microvilli and then here’s the deeper intestinal wall. So maybe you run a stool test and it’s pulling samples more from this area and then as the gut starts healing, now the stool’s starting to grab particles or particulate from this area so deeper in. So the infections could be burrowed deeper in. So I’m proximal and then distal is kind of deeper into the gut linings. Does that make sense?

Evan Brand:  Makes sense.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Okay, I’m gonna put my spirit fingers away now.

Evan Brand:  Good.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So getting back to that, number one is the crypt hyperplasia. Number 2 is maybe a spouse of partner that has an infection and is passing it back and forth. Then you guys are playing hot potato. It’s like, you know, get rid of my infection; I’ll throw it back to you the next week. So that’s the potential thing and things like H. pylori can be spread via saliva, so it’s very possible, and that’s number two. And then the next thing could be pets. So like I got Butter over there. Butter loves giving me kisses and I’m just like, “No!” You know, you can kiss my hands and I’ll wash it later or I’ll give her a kiss on top her head, you know, where there’s not like saliva and a tongue there. So that piece is the pet piece and then also you have X-factors like food, traveling abroad, like me you know, waterskiing over in Lake Austin, you know, getting a mouthful of water like that. I mean, I imagine some of the people down at the—the Rio Olympics right now that are going on. I’ve seen some of that nasty water. I mean, I saw something like a teaspoon of that water can make you sick with this nasty bacteria. So—so water and those types of things, you know, drinking when you’re on a hike from a stream. You know, all those things could be potential X-factors I call it. So number one is the crypt hyperplasia phenomenon. Two is partner and spouses. Three can be the X-factor, the water and food and such.

Evan Brand:  So who knows if the Olympic athletes are getting access to functional medicine practitioners because it sounds like a lot of them are gonna be going home with parasites?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah. Yup, I agree. And it’s very possible that that is the case and again, you get some people that you know, we do a round of treatment and they’re not better, and then they get discouraged and they don’t have the fortitude to go through it again at a re-test. And that’s the hard part in functional medicine is knowing that, you know, we’d like to have a home run the first time but sometimes it doesn’t happen and we have to do 2 or 3 rounds and that may be the case or sometimes we may even have a to have a breath test, too, as well because maybe they’re just not a major infection there but they’re just a major gut bacteria issue that’s driving gases, hydrogen and methane, to you know, higher levels that are disrupting peristalsis and—and gut motility and such.

Evan Brand:  Yeah, so this is—this can go deep. As you see, Justin and I could go for hours and hours about this but I think you’ve done a great job for summarizing this people. So the takeaway here: Get your adrenals checked if you haven’t and make sure you’re doing that with a lab that makes like BioHealth, we like; you talked about the DUTCH earlier–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Oh, let me hit one more thing, too.

Evan Brand:  Yeah, please do.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So I’ve noticed I’ve been doing, you know, hundreds of the new DUTCH test. DUTCH test is one of the big hot ones out—the dried urine testing hormones. The difference with the DUTCH is you can look at the free fraction along with the metabolized hormones as well. So you get kind of the, you know, what’s bio-available and what’s totally coming from the adrenals. So you get kind of the—the big and the small picture. It’s like T3 Free and T3 Total on the blood test. You see what’s bio-available. You see what’s actually coming out from the gland. So DUTCH is great. I find it projects a little bit high on the cortisol cascade or chart.

Evan Brand:  Yeah, same.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And I find BioHealth test a little bit low. So you—when you look at those tests, you have to kind of factor in the BioHealth, maybe on the lower side if you’re doing it. And the DUTCH may be on the higher and you gotta factor those couple of things in even though it may say you’re low on the BioHealth, you may be okay. Or if it says you’re normal on the DUTCH, you may actually be high or even—yeah, typically you’d be higher on the DUTCH.

Evan Brand:  Yeah, so this—I guess that would add in the—the variable here. The practitioner that you’re working with—make sure that they’re actually listening to you because if you’re telling them, “Look, I’m exhausted. I’m exhausted.” But the adrenals show up and they don’t wanna do anything about it. Then that practitioner is not listening to you because we—we can’t treat people in a—as a robot. We can’t treat in a vacuum and we can’t just go on labs. There’s gotta be a combination and we can’t just treat on symptoms either. I’ve had people who’ve said that they’re completely exhausted. The adrenals show up okay but then we see that it’s a major mitochondrial issue. But if we just tested adrenals, you would have given them a clean bill of health and moved on. So–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Evan Brand:  You know, really look at the full picture is this—the takeaway.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Oh, and also I have one little pet peeve, I’m gonna hit it up, but there’s a—a couple of people out there that I know that aren’t using adrenal testing, and I have colleagues out there. So yeah, I think the adrenal testing isn’t available. I mean, it’s—it’s not valuable. It’s—it’s not worth it, right? I can just base—adrenal program based off of some people’s symptoms.

Evan Brand:  Right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Now I totally disagree with that. Now here’s the reason why. Number one, I’ve run adrenal tests on people where you’re like, “Oh my God!” Like they have all these adrenal symptoms and the adrenals come back looking great and then we run the thyroid and then the organic acid testing and their mitochondria’s shot and the their thyroid’s low. Now I would have went into it thinking, well, this person has to have adrenal issue, they didn’t. So you see how important it is. Well, you can be chasing your tail if you don’t know that. And also maybe their adrenals are good but their DHEA—sorry, maybe their adrenals are in the middle but their DHEA is super low. So now we know, oh, maybe their adrenals are worse than they are because the DHEA output which becomes the precursor to the sex hormones is really fatigued, is really depressed. So that may tell us there may be a deeper adrenal issue even though the cortisol stuff, the cortisol rhythm may be fine. And again, the rhythm is gonna be where you’re getting the answers regarding energy. Are you higher in the morning, lower energy at night? So may see that more with the rhythm. The DHEA you may not be able to extrapolate that from those symptoms. So that’s my issue with people not running these tests and just basing it off of symptoms. I think it’s a—a big mistake.

Evan Brand:  Well said. And it’s not that you’re gonna necessarily get sick. You know, we’re not talking about playing with chemo drugs or anything here, but if you’re investing your money and you want to get healthy and you’re not getting healthy because you just got guessed, now you’re playing guess and check, well, your supplement graveyard is gonna get pretty big if you do that method.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Plus it’s really nice to have a pre- and post-test to look at.

Evan Brand:  Agreed.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yup, so I like that.

Evan Brand:  Agreed. Well, cool. Well, any last words of wisdom for people? And then we’ll send them back to your website, justinhealth.com, where they learn more about you. They can sign up for consultations if they wanna work with you and you got videos, you got podcasts, all sorts of free content, thyroid videos, hormone videos, etc.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Well, I’d say off the bat, number one. Do all the foundational stuff. I mean, myself and Evan, we have great podcasts and great information out there. It’s totally free that people can listen to it and basically get access to our brains and our info, you know, the things that we’ve spent hundreds and thousands of dollars to learn over the last decade. It’s right at your fingertips for free. So most of that you can already access. So start with that information off the bat. Number two, if you’ve already tried some stuff and you bang your head against the wall. Remember if you’re trying to get better and you’ve already done the foundational stuff and you’re not getting better. If you don’t make a decisions to start seeing a good functional medicine practitioner out, you end up paying twice. Because you pay number one, with the quality of your health which starts to get worse over time. And the number two, as it gets worst, it becomes a more expensive and more timely and costly to fix it. So if you’ve already done the foundational piece, which you can access a lot of the information free from justinhealth on YouTube and podcasts at Beyond Wellness Radio and then notjustpaleo. If you’re doing all that, then the next step is you wanna reach out to a really good trained functional medicine physician or nutritionist or diagnostician to get the next steps lined up.

Evan Brand:  Well said and I’ll lastly add on the part of wasting your money. If you have a gut infection, it doesn’t matter if you’re buying organic grass-fed beef. If you’re not digesting it, you’re not getting those amino acids that are fueling your hormones, your brain, what’s the use?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  100%! And again, who goes cl—who goes and climbs Mt. Everest and doesn’t hire the Sherpa that’s gone to the top 50 or 100 times, right? You want that Sherpa that’s been to the top 100 times to lead your way, right?

Evan Brand:  Yeah

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right, in the Mt. Everest analogy. So most people, they’re saying, “Yeah, I can climb Everest on my own, even though I haven’t done it yet and it’s kind of treacherous, meaning it can be expensive and timely and costly if you ma—make the wrong move, right?” You don’t die probably, right? It’s not like Mt. Everest. But you know, you’ll suffer. If—it may not just be on the health side. It might just be financially with taking, choosing the wrong supplements and getting that supplement graveyard like you said, right?

Evan Brand:  Yeah, and it’s—if you read books and hear podcasts on climbing Everest, I don’t think it’s gonna—it’s gonna mount up to the same thing as having that Sherpa there.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I 100% agree. You got it.

Evan Brand:  Well, cool. Well, take care. Thanks for your time. I appreciate it as always.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Evan, it’s been real as always, my friend. Thanks so much for having me on.

Evan Brand:  Of course. Take care.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Thanks, bye!

Evan Brand:  Bye!


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