Top 5 Antiviral Herbs and Top 5 Nutrients to Support Your Immune System | Podcast #276

Currently, global attention on health is at an all time high. With a virus in circulation, it is important that we take good care of our immune health. Dr. Justin, along with Evan Brand share top 5 antiviral herbs and nutrients that could help boost our immune system. Check this informational podcast below.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

In this episode, we cover:

5:20      Viruses

9:07      Nutrients for the Immune System

14:51     Antiviral Herbs

21:27    Silver

24:05   Importance of Good Health

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Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And we are live. It’s Dr. J here in the house with Evan Brand, Evan, how was your weekend, man? 

Evan Brand: Hey, man, it was pretty good. It was interesting. Of course, we went out to various stores and saw everything wiped out and I’m sure people don’t need any more reminders that the stores were wiped out of toilet paper. And that was really it on, you know, just did the normal thing with the kids. So it was great.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s excellent, then yeah, I’m doing a little bit of social distancing because of the corona virus. I don’t think personally, I don’t think it’s gonna be that big of a deal. I know. I think the the media and the hysteria is bonus out of proportion. You know, we have to compare these pandemic issues to previous pandemics to compare reaction. Do we have symmetry in previous reactions, right. And if we look at swine flu, H1N1 in 2009, we had over 1000 people in this country. die from that. I think I think even even more than that, I think over 100,000 in the World Book, we’re only at like, what I think only how many thousand people have died of this. So far 6000? 6000 have died. And swine flu were over 100,000. And we had over a million people in this country with it. And we only have, I think 3500 and change. Now, number two is the big reason why I think it’s not going to be as big of a deal. Because I’m reading lots of anecdotes on people that have had flu like illnesses over a month ago, and that were tested at the ER at their doctor’s office, and that came back negative for flu. So my personal intuition, right knowledge, guided by experience is that this virus has been around a lot longer than we know. Chinese government doesn’t have the best reputation of being transparent to the US government. So I don’t expect the December timeline of, of when everything kind of came to fruition with this virus is being the correct timeline based on previous experience. So I think this virus has been around a lot longer. So a lot of anecdotal stuff. bonds people over a month ago having viruses that were flu like that were deeper respiratory based. And that did not come back positive for the flu. So I think it’s been around a lot longer. I think the incident rate is a lot higher than we know. And so I think over time, as the testing gets better, we’re going to see more, more people positive. And that’s gonna drive down the mortality rate, right? Because we people aren’t messing up the death rate, the death rates, the death rate, it’s hard to ignore a person that dies and they’re going to get tested and assessed for a virus so you’re not going to mess that up. But what you’re gonna mess up is the incident rate. Because unless you don’t have strong enough symptoms, or that risk factor history, no one’s gonna get your test and based on where the testing is limited right now. I think the incident rates a lot higher than we think it is a story on NBC last week guy gets coronavirus it you know I think at the princess diamond cruise ship. Well, his wife in the same quarters as him, didn’t even get it. And part of the immune response we’re going to talk about this here I’m going to do a YouTube video today is the corona virus is actually an RNA based virus. Okay, so most viruses, they’re DNA based. So what happens is this little virus comes in, and it sticks itself to your cell and penetrates into the cell. And it sticks itself actually using these little Corona like clubs, hence the name Corona virus. And then it uses the ACE inhibitor, the ACE pathway, which is the same pathway that a lot of the ACE inhibitor blood pressure drugs use, and they transmit the RNA inside the virus to inside the cell. And that creates what’s called a cytokine, storm or interleukin storm. And then that’s where the initial flu symptoms actually come from. They don’t come from the virus, they come from your immune response to the virus. And so then what happens there is, then then you start to have the symptoms. The problem is, a lot of people have a strong immune response or have a really good healthy cell membrane because adequate vitamin A, that virus literally just bounces off the person. It doesn’t even get, it doesn’t even get to drip the RNA into the cell. And so because of that, you’re not going to really be able to detect an immune response to That person because there isn’t even an antibody response to it. The body just deflected it off. Does that make sense?

Evan Brand: Yeah, it’s interesting.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So like to look at an immune response, you’d have to have that virus invade, then your immune system makes that antibody response to it and kills it. But what if that virus can’t even storm the castle wall? Does that make sense? 

Evan Brand: Yep. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And that’s part of why so many people who’ve gotten the virus don’t even have any symptoms, meaning they got exposed to it, but they got no symptoms at all. And that’s part of the the theory that you know, I’ve been postulating and other people have been postulating to.

Evan Brand: Well, regardless of what it’s going to turn out to be, we still want to be helpful in whatever way we can to people. So today’s podcast is about antiviral herbs and nutrients that we could use. All of these have studies on them. And of course, we can’t say specifically in the research. Hey, astragalus has been found to be anti viral against this specific Corona virus, but it’s been specifically shown against influenza. And there’s other types of viruses that we have studies here. So it’s not going to be 100%, this herb for this virus, but if we can just assume that some of the same mechanisms are going on, then these herbs should still be helpful, and they’re not going to hurt put it to you that way.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. And people will talk about, you know, the fact that, you know, the flu virus is a is a has been around for a long time. But at the same standpoint, they’re still tweaking the vaccine every year, because there is mutations that happen and part of what goes on with the flu vaccine is 80% of the time, it’s wrong, because we’re basing it off of the type of flu strains that happened in Asia the season before, and that’s where we kind of predict the strains that we should adjust the vaccine to this year and the wrong 80% of the time. So we know that there’s some mutation that happens right? And so the corona virus isn’t the first one we got exposed to that with SARS, which is sudden acute respiratory syndrome, and MERS, which is Middle Eastern. respiratory send them. So those are two other Corona viruses. This is covid 19. So 19 other ones similar. So let’s kind of just dive into we already talked about what’s happening in regards to the immune response. So the things that we’re trying to support is number one, the body’s healthy immune response to it, and then away modulating the immune response. So we don’t become, you know, more sick or more symptomatic because of an inappropriate immune response. I already addressed how cytokines and interleukins can actually make us feel kind of crappy, which is good, because we want to feel a little bit crappy. So we kind of stop and rest and sleep more, right? Well, we don’t want to feel so bad that our immune response is actually worse than the virus. So I want to kind of draw a line in between nutrients that support our immune system, and herbs that enhance and support and stimulate our immune system. So let’s draw a line. So some of the big nutrients that I can think of off the bat in our top 10 list is So as links are really important one, it’s gonna be fine in a lot of animal products, not seafood, seafood, and that’s going to have a major effect on our immune system. And it’s gonna it’s gonna have an effect on testosterone, it’s gonna have an effect on testosterone, and hydrochloric acid. And our hormones plays a very vital role. We have what’s called zinc fingers, which affects our DNA, adequate levels of zinc have a major effect on our epigenetics and our DNA. So zinc would probably be our number one, I think, on the nutrient side. Anything else you want to highlight on zinc or anything else?

Evan Brand: No, I would say that vitamin C is probably going to be number two, though. Yeah, it wasn’t your number two.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I agree. They’re actually doing studies on Covid 19 and vitamin C right now in China as we speak. So that is something that’s real, and they’re actually looking at that already. And we know that they’re buying lots of vitamin C for a lot of these reasons, preventively. So we know intuitively something’s happening there. I’m going to be very curious. See what the study pans out over the next couple of months in this?

Evan Brand: Yep. I don’t think this is going to be in the nutrient category, but it’s kind of both right because it is it is sort of an immune support, but it also does modulate things and it would be astragalus route. And I personally stay on astragalus pretty much year round, but I go higher dosing in the spring and summertime in case I get tick bites, but there’s been some studies showing that when it comes to the herpes simplex virus HSV one, it was found to inhibit that virus. Another study showed that it inhibits the RNA replication that you were talking about. So it seems like it has a multi benefit, like it can be an adaptogen for the immune system, but it also can help inhibit replication of viruses.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, modulates the interleukin response and actually help stimulate the natural killer cell response which is really important. That’s the first line of invaders. That’s part of the reason why some of these viruses bounce off people because they have a really good th one immune response. These invaders can’t even kind of set up shop to begin with.

Evan Brand: Yep, olive leaf. I love olive leaf-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I want to continue hitting some of the nutrients. So- 

Evan Brand: Alright, go ahead.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So let’s go to N acetylcysteine. We talked about this last week in particular, but ns little systems and amino acid, and it’s also going to help with glutathione. So n acetylcysteine is gonna help with respiratory issues mucus, it’s gonna support the lungs and acetylcysteine will also help occlude a thigh and we know low glutathione is correlated to weaker immune response and the ability to detoxify. And good bio actually helps with lung health. So we know NAC is vital for glutathione. And, and that’s also going to make a huge difference on the lungs and the respiratory system. And NAC is also shown to be very helpful to decrease viral replication. So once the DNA of that virus invades your cell, it’s going to replicate and if it’s replicating and we can put things in there to hit the brakes on that viral replication. That’s going to help immune system catch up.

Evan Brand: Yep, we could go into nutrients forever. I’m just thinking now my head spinning vitamin A higher dose of vitamin A could be critically important. Higher dose vitamin D could be critically important. Maybe 10,000 iu for most people would be just fine for vitamin D, we always like to have K1 and K2 added to it. The funny thing is a lot of the things we’re talking about you and I do these all the time anyway, for people it’s not like it’s a different protocol. It’s just, this is kind of the baseline stuff like we use glutathione on NAC combo all the time. Now it just becomes a bit more important. And, you know, vitamin D, for example, has been shown to reduce the risk of flu, other respiratory infections, including pneumonia, which as you mentioned, last time we talked about this, that’s one of the main mechanisms that people are getting really really ill is when it progresses to a point of pneumonia. So vitamin D alone has been shown to reduce the risk of that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes, let me go back and hit vitamin A, according to what some of the research says are zinc, I should say. Zinc is very helpful for modulating the th one immune response, it helps modulate cytokine production and B lymphocytes, which a lot of times B cells are going to be the antibodies that we make, it’s also helps to decrease cell replication of the DNA of the virus, which is very helpful. And it also helps with a pop ptosis. So it helps with program cell death, which is very important, right? We want to keep a lot of these cells from replication, right, the more they replicate, the more it’s going to, it’s going to put more stress on our immune system to kill them. So that’s really important. And then we also know the more zinc deficiency occurs, you know, the harder it is to decrease replications we know zinc plays a big role. And then vitamin A is really important because number one, vitamin A plays a major, major role with the cell membrane, it makes that cell membranes stronger. And let’s just say imagine, like the cell membrane is kind of like the castle wall. It makes it harder for invaders like viruses to get into the cell. So adequate vitamin A is going to really helped make that cell membrane nice and strong and more impervious to things coming in vitamin A also has an inflammatory role. It protects the epithelium, it protects the mucous membrane. So if the mucous membranes stronger, that’s gonna prevent invaders from getting in that way. It also has an anti inflammatory role. It’s in a module eight cytokines as well. So a lot of really, really, really important things. Vitamin A is going to help. So zinc vitamin A, we already talked about an acetyl cysteine. And its effects on viral replication in glutathione and mucus and lung health. And then you mentioned vitamin D, and vitamin D, makes a natural antibiotic called [inaudible], which is antibacterial. It’s in a module a th1 and th2 immune response by helping the T regulatory cells and an overall turn that used to be supporting the immune system. Anything else you want to highlight on vitamin D, Evan?

Evan Brand: I mentioned that the K1 K2 I don’t know if it would have any role in immune health, but we often use it together. So I would just say out looking at the store for a combo, the combo product is generally going to provide more value across the board and just a standard d3. And if you could go for something that’s going to be like a soft gel or even a liquid, I’ve seen a lot of really low quality vitamin D supplements that are in tablets with a lot of fillers and binders. So, you know, keep in mind, the nutrient is not just the important part, you want to make sure you’re getting quality and try to use stuff that doesn’t have a bunch of extra garbage added to it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, that makes sense. I’d also say lysine is a big one. We see it with herpes viruses, but it’s been very, very helpful to modular immune response, it helps deactivate a lot of the herpes viruses, it definitely plays a strong role in enhancing and strengthening the immune system and also helps with up regulating antibody. So that B cell antibody, the B cells that make your ITG IGA IGM, those antibodies are going to be strongly enhanced with a lysine and so very, very helpful at modulating the immune system and so on. Big I think nutrients that I would kind of highlight here because we want to draw a line between nutrients and herbs. I would say vitamin A, as an apple, vitamin D is in dog vitamin C as in cat, zinc, we could throw a lysine in there. And it was or anything and then zinc, I think we hit all five or six or six or five. A, D, C, Zinc, NAC. I think that’s it. Those are the big five. Anything else you want to add there, Evan? 

Evan Brand: We could do we could do plenty more. But I think that’s definitely enough nutrients. I’m excited to talk about the herbs. Those are the things I think have been more powerful. So the next one after astragalus I was gonna-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And just to highlight, we talked about some of these herbs last week, some will be an overlap, some will be some new ones. So if you’re listening to last week, we’re gonna amend and update some of these nutrients here and herbs too.

Evan Brand: Yep, well said. So I was going into olive leaf. I love olive leaf. We use it all the time. So actually like part of my Candida protocol, we’ll have a couple of herb combinations that will have olive leaf combined with say monolauren. So maybe I just stacked those two right on top of each other. Monolauren is a lauric acid coconut extract, it’s been shown to be very, very potent as an antiviral and olive leaf, the main compound in it, I believe it’s pronounced [inaudible]. And that actually prevents the virus from attaching to the cells. So we kind of talk about mechanisms a lot. And people say, Well, why does that matter? Well, because some herbs may prevent the replication of viruses, things like all of actually prevent the virus from attaching to healthy cells. So if you have multiple herbs, you see you’ve got multiple mechanisms, you’re just making yourself even more resilient. So that’s why I’m a huge fan of all of huge fan of astragalus monolauren, those are probably like my my top favorites.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Great. So we hit astragalus we talked about the immune a lot of these things are going to help with either immune modulation, natural killer cell antibody modulation, right the the infantry that comes in afterwards for us and help with viral replication. And then typically it’s gonna modulate the inflammation from the immune response. Usually it’s it’s hitting things in about three to four different ways. And so most are going to fall into that category. So when you hear like things that that’s kind of the mechanism how they’re working. Now, cat’s claws a really big one. We use cat’s claw or cemento a lot with biofilms, they work really good, right? These are protective shields, bacteria and critters use. We also use it with a lot of lime and various co infections. But cat’s claws are great at the immune system, helping with viruses, really enhancing the body’s ability to deal with infections. And again, everything we’re talking about isn’t necessarily the tree anything A lot of it’s a lot of the time it’s just to support our own immune response to what’s happening because our body is really the Ultimate Fighter. In all of this. Everything we’re doing is just trying to give our body’s immune system an edge to address the issue to begin with.

Evan Brand: I yeah, I want to just restate what you said because I think this is the the point that many people are missing which is the body has and humankind has dealt with viruses for forever. All we’re talking about now is what can you do to try to gain the upper hand, it’s not that these things are essential, these things are just going to improve your resilience. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. So it’s important to have the right mindset, a lot of people are selling like cures or solutions. And that’s not going to be the case, but it’s really going to be our body to begin with even antibiotics. When the infection gets cleared, it’s still not the antibiotic, right? It’s the antibiotic lowering the level of the infection, and then the immune system can kind of come in and play right, it gives a really, it’s like, if we’re using a lifting analogy, it really gives a very helpful spot. When you’re kind of low in that bench press. It really gives you that little spot to kind of get up through that sticking point for sure. So akinesia will be one of my next favorite ones. And again, when we’re doing a lot of these herbs, a lot of times we want to make sure the whole root is present. So a lot of times with akinesia, you’ll see a lot of flower present. I want the whole root, I want the whole root. I find that has a lot more of the The immune modulating alkaloids that really have the immune benefits, so akinesia is, is excellent and how it reduced virus virus levels, it inhibits the growth of bacteria inhibits the growth of viruses, it’s also going to modulate with the inflammation caused by that immune response caused by the cytokines and interleukins-

Evan Brand: Yeah, and when you’re looking at a supplement label, most people listening are probably already expert food label readers and expert supplement label readers but you should just see in parentheses it should say something like root or aerial parts meaning flower, so you want to see something that’s like a whole complex.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, a little bit better. And some have a combination, which is fine, too. Mm hmm. Yep, exactly. And buy from reputable company because when you buy raw material, you can buy the McDonald’s version or you can buy the grass fed local farmer version, right. You want to buy the highest quality, cool. Next oil level right now we use oil of oregano, a lot more when we’re dealing with fungal overgrowth, certain certain gut infections, really good antimicrobial, antifungal qualities also, whatever I can now also as antiviral qualities, I like it a lot. It’s going to knock down viruses, the karva call compound and the oil of oregano is very, very, very, very potent, very potent. And it’s going to have fireball in there and karva call which are going to which are going to be the main ingredients there. And it’s going to have, you know, immune modulating benefits, as well as killing benefits is going to actually help kill parasites, bacteria and can potentially kill viruses too.

Evan Brand: Oregano is amazing. I mean, it’s like one of the most broad spectrum if we ever have a client where, let’s say they just have some kind of symptom we can’t resolve related to the gut, maybe they had a combination of viruses and bacteria and parasites and fungus all in one. If something doesn’t work, the first round will come in and do oregano oil, and it really acts as the it’s it’s the generic spot treatment. I guess you could call it because it may not fungus down a little bit. It may not bacteria viruses. So I mean, really you can’t go wrong with it. Well, once again, I think quality is key. So as you mentioned, you do want to make sure you get something standardized for the Carver crawl that way you’re, you’re getting something that’s potent enough to work. A lot of people say well I have oil of oregano essential oils, no, that’s not the same thing. You’re going to want something like what we use, which is going to be an encapsulated version that’s much more potent, and we use emulsified olive oil. So that allows it to spread out and hit the whole intestinal tract as opposed to you putting a drop of oregano oil in your water and drinking it. That’s not what we’re talking about.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and I’ll tell you people that use a lot of the oil of oregano essential oils, I had a parasite in Mexico one time and actually had an oil of oregano essential oil. The problem with it was I could not get enough down my going down my throat without burning my throat seriously, it was so bad. So if you have it, what you can do is get a nice capsule and pour it into it. And that can be very, very helpful because it’s hard to get enough in your system without burning the crap out of your Throw in your upper gi. So having a good encapsulation will be nice. A lot of the capsules you get over the counter will still open up pretty fast. And so you may still feel it in your stomach, a lot of the capsules that we’re going to use are going to be more a little bit more gelatinous. So it buys more time to actually open up in the in the small intestine versus the stomach. Yep. Well, that’s the difference. Yeah. So we hit oil of oregano, we hit astragalus, we hit ekinasia, we hit olive leaf, I would say one of the next ones would be silver. I mean silver has amazing benefits at knocking down viruses and bacteria. Intuitively, we’ve known this for a long time. That’s the reason why we’ve made our forks and our knives out of silver, where it’s because we’ve known that using these type of things to handle our food actually has decreased food poisoning and had antibacterial antimicrobial effects on our food. That’s why we’ve used silverware for hundreds of years on our food. And you hear lots of negative stories about silver and a condition called our argiria. Which is going to be you know, you turn Blue so to speak. Again, this is not going to happen in high quality silver products that are, you know, 15 or less part per million, you’re not going to see it. A lot of these issues are people consuming silver that is way higher on the part per million side. And a lot of times it’s homemade. I’ve had patients and people tell me like, yeah, I make my own silver, I get like some, some sterile silver coins and I put it in a salient solution. I run a current through it, I’m like, holy crap, you have no idea how much silver is in there as a level of parts per million. So if you’re consuming silver, make sure you choose a high quality company. And you know, we actually know the parts per million on there. So you know, it’s the molecule small enough for your body to still excrete it. 

Evan Brand: Yeah, and the stuff we’re using, it’s not expensive. It’s not like silver cost $100 a bottle either. So why people would do that as opposed to just buying a professional brand who does it right. I don’t know. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I mean, the naturopath named Dr. David and he talked about this one time and I remember at a conference, he literally took a liter of Silver, and he just chug the whole thing on stage. Everyone’s like, holy crap. He’s like guys, yeah, good silver, you’re never gonna see it being a problem. I was like, Alright, and then the next day he was totally fine. But he consumed a whole liter of silver. That’s insane. But yeah, so his premise of it was Yeah, it’s really just about the quality of silver. It’s really about the quality and how much how big the molecule is.

Evan Brand: Yeah, well, I gotta run I’ve got a contractor that just came over to my house but that was the last thing I wanted to mention. Anyway, if you didn’t hit it, I think we hit it over.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Great. I’m glad we hit it. And again, for people that are having struggling with immune issues or health issues and they want to dive in deeper Evan and I are in the trenches dealing with patients all the time from all over the world. So Evan’s website’s they’ll be able to console link there. I am Dr. J. at, feel free to schedule online. We’re here to help and if you enjoy the content, put your comments down below what you guys think any questions about your experience with using certain nutrients and antiviral herbs to support and enhance your immune system. We’re really curious To know and if you enjoy the content, make sure you share it with friends and family. We really appreciate it. Anything else you want to say, Evan?

Evan Brand: Yeah, we deal with these type of issues every day all day helping people become more resilient. So now people are just realizing how important it really is to take good care of yourself. This just gives you more reason to not eat bad foods this gives you more reason to go to bed on time this gives you more reason to have healthy relationships and remove bad people from your life. So things like this really shouldn’t change your life that much but if anything, maybe it puts a spotlight on some of the sore spots of your life that you need to improve upon the sleep the stress the work stress their relationships, you know, so please use this time to build yourself up not beat yourself up or or think you know, negatively, just build yourself up. That’s my that’s my message.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And excellent anyone listening. I’ll be back in a few minutes for another live Q&A session. So a lot of questions here. Love to hit them up on the backside. Ever man, you have a great day and we’ll talk to you man.

Evan Brand: Same you take care. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Take care. Bye.


Audio Podcast:

Top 5 Adaptogens to Improve your Brain Performance | Podcast #272

Welcome to Beyond Wellness Radio Podcast! For today’s episode, Dr. Justin and Evan talked about one of their favorite topics- the adaptogenic herbs. They shared how they personally use it and how it’s good for the body. Also included in the topic are the families of adaptogens, different uses and benefits. Check out this podcast to know more.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

In this episode, we cover:

1:08      Families of Adaptogens

7:15      Adaptogenic Herbs

11:26   Adaptogens’ Different Use

23:24   Social Anxiety

31:15    Dr. Justin’s Top 5 Adaptogen

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Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And we are live. It’s Dr. J here in the house, Evan Brand, how we doing today, my man?

Evan Brand: I’m doing great. We’re diving into like my favorite episode ever. This is like your favorite jam to adaptogenic herbs, we probably I’m not going to say probably I’m going to say we definitely could not work as much and as hard as we do if we were not taking adaptogens. Now maybe you’ve got some secret sauce behind the scenes that you could continue working as hard as you do. But for me, adaptogens are the thing that keeps me going and they keep me feeling refreshed. Even in the most difficult of cases. you’re reviewing labs all day. You’ve got to focus you got to think about the symptoms that the clients reporting to you and you got to make the accurate protocol. You can’t slip up on dosing, you got to make sure you gauge it all right. I mean what we do is brain intensive. So for us, I think adaptogens are like essential but for other people to At these are very, very amazing compounds that should be worked into your to your life and your protocol wherever you can.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% man, so there’s different families of adaptogens. You know, there are some that have immune modulating benefits, there are some that have stress modulating benefits. And then there are some that are going to have hormone kind of sex hormone modulating benefits. So we kind of use them in different criteria. So the ones that help manage stress are going to be things like ginseng, or ashwagandha. And they’re really going to help modulate cortisol. And the big thing about adaptogens that I love is it helps modulate their perception of stress. So much of stress is perception based, where if you internalize something as being stressful, you make more of a negative hormonal response to that stress, where if you can perceive that stress as being less threatening, your hormones respond accordingly. So that’s part of the benefit of adaptogens. You can do it with meditation. And mindset is you perceive stress differently. But you can also modulate your body using herbs that have a similar effect. And guess what? If you combine the two, it’s even better.

Evan Brand: So give us an example. Like, are you talking, let’s say somebody cuts you off on the highway, and that really would have pissed you off before. But now, it’s like, Oh, you know what they’re in a rush.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You’re just able to keep your cool a little bit better, right? It just makes it, it makes it a little bit harder for you to fully lose your your sh it. Right? It makes it harder for you to lose it. All right. And that’s, that’s nice. People are in stressful environments, work and stuff. Everyone wants to keep their composure, especially if you’re dealing with your kids, you don’t want to yell at your kids and all that stuff, right? So you want to be able to keep your cool. And so ashwagandha is one of those things that I use daily, it helps modulate the immune system, but it also helps change and D help me deal with stress better and again, ashwagandha literally is Sanskrit that means to impart the strength of the horse. That’s kind of cool little saying there and a lot of adaptogens they have they’ve been used for a long time. They kind of have a little bit of a saying around that, you know, imparting energy and strength and, and stabilization.

Evan Brand: Yeah, so ashwagandha is something that has benefits with the adrenal system too. So when you’re talking stress, obviously, there’s this connection between the brain and the adrenal. And what you’re saying is when you’re using these adaptogens, it’s almost like you can sort of either short circuit or maybe the better word is down regulate that stressful connection, meaning like that guy on the highway, who cuts you off, before your fuse would have been so short that that brain is going to go alert, alert, alert, the amygdala, the fight or flight system sets off, and then boom, you get a big shot of cortisol. But in the research we’ve looked at ashwagandha literally can help stabilize that cortisol response to where you might not get as much of a sharp hit of cortisol, it’ll still happen. It’s not like you’re going to be sedated. And if somebody puts a gun to you, you can’t get scared and run. It’s not that it’s just that it’s going to help blunt an excess response of hormones.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% and that’s really, really important. That’s very important. And then of course, they’re going to me just things like ginseng adaptogens whether it’s [inaudible] ginseng, American ginseng, or red ginseng, or Korean ginseng, they’re going to just help us deal with stress as well kind of similar in that adaptogenic quality. And they’re also typically what they’re doing is they’re modulating cortisol output. They’re modulating HPA access. And of course, when you modulate HPA access, remember that means hypothalamus pituitary, aka your brain. And the a part is your adrenal. So that feedback loop from the brain to the adrenal is modulating, so one, it’s going to make sure that we don’t over yell or over signal, stress hormone production, but it’s also going to help us when we made stress hormones, it’s going to provide what’s called a negative feedback loop back to the brain. That’s it’ll allow us to come down from that stress versus stay chronically elevated. It’s like the air conditioning comes on. It hits 70 degrees, right? It lowers that temperature, but imagine the air conditioning continuing to stay on until it’s at 60. It’s like, Well, hey, I don’t want it to go that cold. I don’t wanted to stop at 70. So think of that’s kind of what your stress responses we manage. We produce those stress hormones, but we just keep ratcheting it up above and beyond what’s needed for that moment.

Evan Brand: Yeah, I think another way to say it is you’ve just lost that homeostasis and adaptogens can help you to find that balance more. So for example, if something frazzles you here’s an interesting thing I’ll you know, I think people relate to stories, right. So, my wife took my daughter’s summer to Whole Foods last week, and we get my daughter adaptogens all the time. Just different liquid tinctures with blends, we’ve probably got her on, I don’t know five or 10 different things, you know, reishi mushroom and astragalus and licorice and Eleuthera row and quarter seps. And, and all of it right? And so normally, she if she heard a very, very loud, startling sound, she’d get startled from it. And in this case, it was the fire alarm that went off. And my wife was like, wow, you know, something crazy. She goes, I know that These herbs are working for summer because if something were that loud before, before we had another supplement, she’d cover her ears. And she’d be like, Oh my god, what is this loud sound, but instead the fire alarm goes off. And all she says is, Mommy, what’s that? And just super chill. She didn’t overreact. She didn’t cry. She didn’t scream. She didn’t cover her ear here, the fire alarms just blaring. And she was super cool. So like I said, it’s not that it’s numbing you. It’s just that it’s gonna allow you to not have a big response. They have another example. When I was out at this piece of property, looking at this piece of land, I met the builder out there, and there was a dump truck behind us. And you know how when the dump trucks open up in the bank, and they let all the gravel out, and then the dump truck Door slams, he jumps so hard, and I kind of joke with my wife afterwards, like man, he needs some he needs some adaptogens he overreacted. He acted like he was getting shot, but instead it was just a loud sound. So that’s kind of a sign if you’re somebody listening, how do I know my HPA system is dysfunctional. Well You’re overreacting to things like you said, you’re getting mad at your kids easily. Your fuse is short or you have a very very sensitive startle reflex. Like a loud sound. Oh my god, your heart’s pounding. You need some adaptogenic herbs.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. And David Winston, I think he has a book on this. It’s literally called ‘Adaptogenic Herbs’. It’s actually online free, you can totally get it. There’s 15 recognized adaptogens that he has in that book. I mean, some of the big ones are ginseng, ashwagandha, asian ginseng, astragalus and cortis apps are great because they modulate the immune system. Eleuthera holy basil licorice is actually considered an adaptogen, Rishi, rhodiola, schizandra, [inaudible], these are different adaptogens that have kind of been well known. So this book is excellent because it really talks about you know, a lot of the the science behind these adaptogens and really to kind of summarize it, the science comes down to this. immune modulating affects stress modulating affects brain communication to Oregon, to adrenal or thyroid affects a better communication from the brains of the organs, better homeostasis, and adaptation to stress, immune modulation, and then also sex hormone modulation. So for guys and women, there’s certain herbs that will use to help reestablish cycle communication and women or help with progesterone, or how modulae estrogen receptor sites and then guys, too, there’s ones that will use to help modulate Lh and testosterone secretion as well. So there’s different ones that we use for stress, mood, sex hormones, and then of course, when you modulate the stress and the sex hormones, guess what happens, you start sleeping better, which then feeds back into the rest and repair and then you your hormones aren’t as stress therefore, the adaptogens have even a better modulating effect because your hormones and your stress is less off kilter. Right? It’s It’s It’s more balanced because the sleep and that is already stabilizing you.

Evan Brand: Yeah, that’s what I love about ashwagandha for example, is that you could use During the day to help with stressful events, but you could also use it at night. So I’ll take a shot of it or if I’m using a capsule, I’ll do some during the day. And then I’ll also take one or two doses of it before bed. And I tell you, I wake up a lot more refreshed when I have that in my system.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and get adapt like the Russians did a lot of research in the mid 50s and 60s on adaptogens pretty cool. One of the Russian Research Scientist he kind of described and adaptogen like this, this is what the definition was, and this is going to be available I think in Winston’s book called adaptogenic herbs. He said, they must be innocuous, they must cause minimal disorders in a physiological function of an organism, they must have a nonspecific action and usually have a normalizing action. Irrespective of the direction of someone’s pathological state that’s really important. So someone could be moving towards a, you know, a disease state and it’s still going to have a modulating benefit, which is really cool.

Evan Brand: I love that. That’s a nice elegant, elegant statement and People may think, well, if these things are so awesome, then, you know, why aren’t more people talking about it? Why aren’t doctors talking about it? Well, in general, as you mentioned, in the 50s, and 60s, Russia is doing all this research. But in America, there’s not any money in this because, you know, you and I, we’ve got our own formulas, which, which will eventually talk about and plug in hope that you all can experiment with. But the money’s not in a bottle of rhodiola that we may sell to you for $20. Right, like there’s just not that huge profit margin incentive. And you can’t patent these things too, because they’re herbs so when you can’t patent something, then you can’t excessively market up and make a ton of money like you can with the pharmaceuticals for example.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. 110% Yeah, there’s less money there. And you know, of course, when the education is primarily driven by by mainstream companies, if there’s no money there, you’re just not going to get the education on it. So the cool thing about the internet and podcast and and YouTube We can provide a lot of these videos and it’s easy, we get it, we just do a recording and it’s out. We don’t have to go through a big publishing process and have everything all, you know, go through a publisher and editor all that we can just put this information out there raw in the flesh, and you guys can enjoy it and digest it even live if people on YouTube listening live right now, which is pretty awesome.

Evan Brand: Do you want to tell any stories about your use with adaptogens? Have you experimented with different things for different issues with mood or sleep or stress?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, so in my line, I have a product called ashwagandha supreme so ashwagandha is gonna be one of my favorite ones. I find that really helps with stress and sleep and really helps modulate my stress response. Like I find if I get an argument with someone if I just hit some ashwagandha within 20 or 30 minutes, I’m adapting to the stress of that conversation or whatever’s going on in my environment better. Now it’s really important. Quality with adaptogens is very important because a lot of countries that they grow adaptogenic herbs, they don’t have the best let’s say environmental there’s a lot of mercury or lead in the soil because of what’s going on with the pollution in that environment, and of course, the herbs, then we’ll take on that pollution, because what goes in the soil comes up in the roots. So it’s very important. You want to use herbs from people who test the herbs independently. So Evan and I, myself, for instance, we test the ashwagandha that we put in capsulate. And I found a couple of times where there’s been high levels of lead, and we’ve had to send the raw material back and and use the different manufacturer that that’s it. So really important. You don’t want to just jump online and get the cheapest adaption actually, you know, you pay a little bit more to have higher quality and to have the, the independent analysis done. So that’s important. So ashwagandha and then of course, it’s my favorite blend of rhodiola ginseng ashwagandha, eleuthero a little bit of liquid, that’s my favorite one that’s on my adrenal revive. I love that because there’s enough immune modulating benefits sex hormone modulating benefits. And I’ll go back and forth between those two. And then every now and then I’ll just go into individual ones. I’ll do some gotu kola. Do some Holy Basil, I’ll do just some regime quarter steps. And I’ll just do some individual ones. I think it’s pretty cool people should biohack and test some individual adaptogens per month, and just see how you feel with it, see how you deal with it. But for myself, personally, I have seen amazing benefits and how I can deal with an adaptive stress. Having seen thousands of patients in my career, I see amazing benefits. And again, it depends. I see a lot of hormonal imbalances a lot of women with PMS, so we’ll use different herbs depending on what’s happening there. What we may use things like chaste tree or white pod, or specific phenotypes of maka that are very helpful. And that just it’s amazing the things that you can do, especially when you’re dealing with the woman’s cycle that’s off I mean, it can really create a lot of, you know, havoc in her in her life and mood and such like that. And then obviously it can create menstruation issues, which then create anemic issues so you can have a whole bunch of things spiral out of control. So big fan of what you can do with these adaptogens from a hormonal mood and Energy sleep, stress modulating effects.

Evan Brand: Yeah. And the good news is, as a general rule, they’re pretty synergistic. So the one that I have that similar to your adrenal is mine’s called Adapt. And this is where we’ve got a little bit of B as in Bravo, vitamin added. The cool thing is, is you can have synergistic benefits. So your average person walking down the street, probably knows that B vitamins are good, right? They think B vitamins equals energy. But when you combine adaptogenic herbs with the B vitamins, then you really get the magic happening because you’ve got not only are you helping to fuel the mitochondria with some of the bees and the nutrients, their vitamin C can be added. But then now you’ve got the modulating effects with the adaptogens. And then when you throw in amino acids, then you really get amazing benefits. So if you’ve got nutrients, like your vitamins, mixing it with your adaptogens and then you’re throwing in for example, like a little seed oil tyrosine we use, that’s when the magic happens and then you can really just take on life. Now I do want to say one thing about rhodiola rhodiola changed my life. You know, I was depressed all Throughout my teenage years, mainly due to my gut issues, I think, my mood issues. Yeah, probably gut and toxicity issues. I remember. You know, I spent a lot of time growing up in my grandma’s house who her basement flooded many times. So now, after you and I’ve talked about this for the last year, now my mold journey, I think I had a lot of mold that was causing me depression too. So it’s probably a combination of toxins and gut issues. But one thing that I found really, really early on was rhodiola. And I noticed immediately that my mood was lifted, and the clouds that had been over my head just basically disappeared. But the only caveat to it is if you’re somebody who you have an unstable mood, like you’re possibly trending more towards bipolar rhodiola can make you more manic. So that is one adaptogen where I think you have a little caution. So that’s where you’d want to work with your practitioner. And then I just want to state something a little differently than the way you’ve already said, which is about the supplement quality. So part of you and I’m part of clinical practices, we do implement these herbs into clinic. And then we sell these supplements to the public as well. But we’re using professional healthcare companies that only manufacture and sell supplements specifically to doctors and healthcare practitioners. So we’re not doing what is very common in the nootropic. And the adaptogenic herb community, which is contract manufacturing, which is where you’ve got random supplements for you calm in the middle of Florida, and they grab 30 different herbs from China, and then they put them in a bottle and slap your label on it and sell it. That’s not what we do at all. We have to have professional grade made by professional practitioners. Sometimes our formulations are are created with the help of other functional medicine people natural pass, and on and on and on. And then that stuff is all extremely vetted and tested because at the end of the day, if we don’t get people better, then we can’t keep doing what we do. So we have to make sure we have a therapeutic benefit. So if you go on Amazon, for example, You just type in rhodiola. And you see here some random brand with a label, and it’s 9.99 versus you see a professional brand for 29.99. That 9.99 may not be the same. You’ve got specific alkaloids and parts of the different plants that you need for the act of benefits. So if you look at Justin’s labels, if you look at my labels, you’re going to see the same thing, which is you’re going to see a percentage, and that’s where the magic happens. So, for example, with rhodiola, you have to have a standardized form that’s going to have multiple alkaloids. For example, [inaudible] is one thing we look for in rhodiola. Not all rhodiola standardized to have particular percentage of rosebuds. With ashwagandha. You’ve got the I think you pronounce it with analyze. Yes, the active component on so I just trying to just point this out not to say hey, we’re the best but we pretty much are with the adaptogenic herbs because there’s nobody else doing professional manufacturing like we are.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% now really interesting this is straight from Winston’s book, he talks about adaptogens help the body achieve an adaptive response to stress, they increase the body’s ability to cope more effectively with stress. They work with the body’s reaction to stress and alter the release of stress hormones. When the body’s under stress, it is using more energy and the body’s energy supplies being depleted because nutrients are being converted to energy. This can cause fatigue. So what Winston saying here is that the more stress you perceive, the more you actually deplete other nutrients to make those stress hormones and then you have less nutrients to run other energy systems in the body whether it’s cardiovascular or gut or neuro endocrine, right. So you kind of robbing Peter to pay Paul, it’s like you’re increasing your debt over here. Therefore you’re using a credit card and you’re spending outside of your monthly budget. So one other side benefit that we are getting Using adaptogens is we are a lot with it’s preventing us from using other nutrients in our body to deal with that stress. And now we have a nutrient reserve we can use for other things such as focus on our job performance at the gym energy with our family and friends, which is really cool because we just think about it in the moment, but we forget what that stress does to other nutrients. And now they aren’t available to us.

Evan Brand: Yeah, well, and people may argue, well, why now like my grandparents or my great grandparents, they lived on a farm. Why did they didn’t take adaptogens they weren’t just you know, pop in capsules of ashwagandha. Well, we have more toxins than we’ve ever had. The EPA is not doing their job. You’ve got flame retardant chemicals and antidepressant drugs and you’ve got fluoride, and other pharmaceuticals, you’ve got pesticides and herbicides, damaging the gut, which kills bacteria, which then creates nutrient deficiencies and bacterial overgrowth which in damages the gut barrier, and then you don’t have enough nutrients from it. Mitochondria, you’ve got neurotoxins, you’ve got air pollution. So to me, the 21st century is the century for adaptogens. I think these can be our saviors to help us cope with the stressors that even just a generation or two ago, we didn’t have.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 110% also, we know that we have a lot more oxidative stress in our environment, just from pesticides and chemicals that are more readily available already, you know, just just they’re kind of indebted in our environment. Winston also highlighted in the book here very interesting. He says another effect of normal metabolism is the creation of free radicals. Right? If the concentration of free radicals exceeds the body’s capacity to neutralize them, this can be harmful and can put damage on the mitochondria, the cells energy powerhouse, he says they are neutralized by antioxidants. So Said another way is you’re going to have oxidative stress from you’re going to have free radicals from all this extra stress. Okay? And that extra free radicals is going to cause your body’s antioxidant reserve to go in overdrive as well. Vitamin C, Vitamin E, really important the oxygen, so then your body has to use more antioxidants to deal with the free radicals from that perceived stress. So kinda like the nutrients getting depleted up, we’re also depleting a lot of our antioxidants to deal with the free radicals from that perceived stress. So it’s pretty cool.

Evan Brand: And we measure this too, right? This is not just stuff you’re you’re spouting out of a book, this is stuff that we verify thousands of times over looking at the various testing we run, for example, organic acids testing, I would say 90% of the time or more, we’re seeing vitamin C levels burned out we’re seeing vitamin B as in Bravo, low, we’re seeing nutrients across the board low. So this is not just theory. This is proof. I mean, we’ve got the data of these labs and people even if they’re trying really hard, they’re eating whole foods paleo template, they’re still nutrient depleted and they still need help. They’re still burning the candle at their job. So they need adaptogen. So here’s one question just for people listening on the podcast that didn’t make it to YouTube. Justin host these videos live on his YouTube channel. So make sure you’re checking that out just type in Justin health on YouTube, and you’ll find it so that way you can join us. And if you want to chime in live, you can. But there was one question here from Dennis. He said Can adaptogens help with social anxiety? The answer, of course, is 100%. Yes. Specifically, I would focus on more calming adaptogens. But possibly mixing it with more stimulating so like an ashwagandha rhodiola combo, that would probably be an awesome social anxiety stack. But I would often use amino acids they are too so we’d want to figure out why is the social anxiety happening? Right? There’s probably an underlying thing there. And then, of course, you could use the nutrients as kind of a support.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, it just depends. Are you more socially anxious because your HPA access is just an overdrive and then just calming that down helps or is there some kind of subconscious trauma that needs to be resolve them, then we’d use a combination of EMDR, EFT and NLP to address any root cause stuff, right? while we still use the adaptogens to calm down that fight or flight response, so we do both. If it’s if there’s a stronger connection to a root cause then we do those techniques I just mentioned, if not, then we we just address the hormonal and neuro chemical mill you underneath the surface?

Evan Brand: Yeah. And then just taking the question a little further. So is the social anxiety Could it be from self confidence issues or self esteem issues, which would be related to neurotransmitter issues? So for example, if you have low serotonin, you’re going to be more prone to social anxiety, you’re typically going to have lower self esteem, you’re going to be more of a worrier. So we may address that and we would measure that on organic acids testing. And then what about the skin? Like what if your skin is part of the reason you’re socially anxious because you feel like you don’t look good enough or something like that? So then it becomes Well, why is the skin bad? Is it the gut is it the diet so that’s Why we love doing these podcasts to try to zoom in on stuff, but you always have to zoom out to focus on the whole picture

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 110% and then a couple other things I want to highlight. So we’re talking about connecting things to kind of more theoretical, but one also connect the theoretical into into reality. So Evan kind of highlighted the organic acid testing. So we’re actually testing the adrenal like I’m running a hormonal panel to look at the cortisol rhythm, to look at that, what how that cortisol fluctuates throughout the day, when we start to see HPA access issues, we started to see a disruption in the cortisol rhythm so instead of that nice high, to low to lower to lowest kind of gentle ski slope taper, we start to see either a flattening or we start to see irregularity in the rhythm throughout the day. We also are going to run organic acids that will look at catecholamines, whether it’s a vandal Mandalay that looks at adrenaline or Homo vandelay which looks at dopin mean, or we’ll look at five hydroxy and dolo acetate, which looks at serotonium will look at urinate, or urinate, or kind of urinate or xanthi [inaudible] B6, we’ll also look at eight hydroxy to deoxy guanosine, or fennessy to acid to look at oxidative stress. So again, these are, you know, really big words, they’re kind of foreign. These are organic acids, and they give us a window into the metabolic demand of what the stress is doing to these nutrient pathways. And so from that, we can come in there and we can create targeted supplement programs that support these specific nutrient deficiencies. But the difference is, we’re not just trying to give you a supplements, we’re trying to fix the underlying root cause. So if there’s poor digestion or food allergens, we’re fixing it. If there’s poor sleep or stress management, or blood sugar instability during the day that has to be fixed to blood sugar is a big one. Most people are on this blood sugar roller coaster ride, where they’re constantly having a catecholamine hormonal rush. Every time this blood sugar is going up and down right on the high side. It’s insulin The low side it’s adrenaline and cortisol and then we’re in this insulin adrenaline, cortisol, glucagon, insulin, adrenaline cortisol glucagon roller coaster that’s very energy depleting, like Winston talks about the B vitamins, the nutrients, the antioxidants. So we have to get to the root cause and it’s not just giving you a bunch of supplements. That may be part of it. But we got to have the big picture where we connect the symptoms upstream to the body systems, hormonal gut infection, detox nutrients, mitochondria, and then also connected to the underlying stressors, physical, chemical, emotional, that may have gotten the ball rolling to begin with, we got to go upstream, above below, inside out.

Evan Brand: Yep. And you could take all the ashwagandha in the world, but if you’re eating gluten free muffins for breakfast, and that’s it, you’re going to have blood sugar problems, you’re going to have mood issues, and I don’t care how many adaptogens you take. So, you know people listening to this, they may think, okay, you know, now I’m just going to go out and buy all these adaptogens maybe not You know, we like you to implement these things with the clinical picture. And the clinical framework is Justin kind of outline because you want to be more targeted, I promise, this whole supplement graveyard that I talked about people building up this supplement graveyard, it’s not a good idea. And you’re going to spend much more money in the long run, if you’re just buying this and buying that, and trying this and trying that you need to figure out what is underneath the hood. So that blood sugar issue is so critical. And if you don’t address that, man, I tell you, you’re going to be angry, you’re going to have a short fuse, you’re going to get mad at your kids when you’re having a blood sugar crisis. So getting that under control. And then on top of that, using adaptogens to support you is how we would do it. But this is all within that clinical framework. So 99.9% of you all listening, you’re not doing that. You’re just trying this, trying that try that but you’ve got no framework, so you really need the testing to see what are you up against. And that way, you know, for example, you may use this herb if it’s a low cortisol, we may use this herb if it’s a high cortisol, what if it’s an inverse pattern now we’ve got to start to Let’s say raise morning cortisol but lower evening cortisol. So there’s a timing to this to the circadian rhythm, time of the day framework as well. It’s not just licorice. licorice needs to be known at the right time. So then you get into timing. So once you add all the different layers on, this is why it’s best to hire us. I mean, that’s why we do what we do.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, so definitely diving in deeper and and quantifying everything and then measuring it and then coming back in three to six months or nine months later and re evaluating it. Yeah, I 100% 100% like that live question here that came in and want to get your take on I have my opinion, too. I’ll get your take first. So there’s different adaptogenic mushrooms that we talked about, like Reishi and cortis apps, right? What’s your take on using those medicinal mushrooms as adaptogens? If you have Candida, would that make your Candida worse? Or is the benefit from those medicinal mushrooms outweighing any potential Candida effects?

Evan Brand: I would say in the case of cordyceps specifically, I don’t see why it would be a big deal. I mean, there’s been a lot of benefit on cordyceps regarding the adrenal system. So to me, if you’re thinking, adrenal stress, higher cortisol, potentially damaging the gut barrier, aka creating increased intestinal permeability, creating leaky gut, then leading to more bacterial overgrowth and Candida to me, I think it’s a no brainer to use adaptogens. And you and I do this every single day all day in the clinic, we use adaptogens during these gut issue protocols, so I would say, Yeah, absolutely.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, my general recommendation is isn’t alignment with yours as long as you can add it in and you’re not seeing any symptoms getting worse. Meaning if you have can’t specific Candida symptoms in and around bloating or gas or white coated tongue or [inaudible] or athlete’s foot, or tinea versicolor rash or cognitive issues from the brain fog from the Candida, and it’s not like getting worse. I think it’s okay of course I leaned on some of the other let’s just say fun, guys. Free adaptogens first, but if we have a benefit there, that’s totally cool. Sure the question came in, I want to highlight is there, someone wasn’t really clear, is there an adrenal leaky gut parasite issue? And then what’s the best test to look for this? So off the bat for me, we’re running a GI map test to look for gut issues, whether it’s bacteria, parasite or Candida, but we’re also running an organic acid test, because I’ve seen time and time a lot of systemic Candida issues that may be outside of the gut will show up on an organic acid test as [inaudible] and that are the [inaudible] and that’s a fungal metabolite that comes out in the urine. So that can give us a bigger window to a more systemic, deeper fungal issue. So it’s good to look at both. Yep. What are your thoughts?

Evan Brand: My thoughts are with organic acids. I’m also running michael panels almost every single time now I am looking into mold toxin quite a bit. It’s rare that I find someone negative and I’m finding that mold toxin is contributing to candida overgrowth. So I’m also adding in a lot of that and a lot of binders support to so protocol. Once you get all the proper labs run on someone, the protocol may look like this, maybe some adaptogenic herbs to support the HPA axis, possibly some micronutrient multi support, possibly omega or some type of anti inflammatory herbal protocol, and then the specific detox and or gut work. So anti parasitic, antifungal, anti microbial herbs, liver support, binders, possibly digestive enzymes. And of course, that’s all according to what’s going on. If they’re too inflamed, they might not be able to do HCl, so you gotta heal the gut first. So, you know, obviously, it’s too complicated for us to just say, Hey, here’s exactly the protocol you people listening need to do. There’s 1000 different ways to skin a cat depending on what’s going on on your lab. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% and it just my last comment is hey, this is a About the top five adaptogen. So what are the top five my number one ashwagandha. Ashwagandha is number one just for overall stress and sleep. Mood, ginseng, eleuthero excellent for mood. Number three for sex hormone modulation we’re using chase tree or vitex we may also throw in some mock in their white peony. For immune we may be throwing in Rishi or a [inaudible] cordyceps for immune which is very helpful. And then also for additional sleep you may be throwing in something like a holy basil or something a very common kind of adaptation. gotu kola. And we may also throw in licorice depending on cortisol rhythm aberrations during the day higher low fluctuations, we may balance off some of those low levels of cortisol with licorice. Just be careful, you don’t have high blood pressure already because that can increase that that’s kind of my top five on there. Evan, do you concur? Do you want to add or amend anything?

Evan Brand: I mean, I love them. I mean, honestly, if you ask me, it depends my answer or my my list is going to depend on the time of year a lot to, like if I’m doing a lot more hiking and such in the summertime, I’m probably going to hit the rhodiola harder if it’s more winter, less sunlight, just more stress in general from the winter the cold temperatures, you know, some of these adaptogenic herbs have benefits in regards to how you adapt to cold weather. So when we say adapting, we’re not just talking emotional stress and your bad boss or, or your spouse. No, we’re talking literally, you can adapt to colder temperatures, you know, so so the cold-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Which herb is that the cold one?

Evan Brand: Rhodiola can help. Great. Yeah, so if you just look up like cold tolerance or cold intolerance, adaptogens I believe rhodiola is number one, but I’m rarely doing them in isolation these days. So I would just tell you as a whole, when I’ve got a full protocol loaded up, I could be out in five degrees and it doesn’t bother me as much as it used to and your average person who’s going to say I’m freezing to death. I’m at five degrees and I feel okay, so we got to wrap this thing up, but let’s do it will Do more on adaptogens if you guys love this, you know, please give us your feedback and review the podcast on iTunes. We need your help so we can stay on top of the charts spreading this functional medicine knowledge to the masses. So please review our podcast it takes like two minutes. We will love you forever. So go to and then forward slash iTunes. That should or if you’re just listening on the podcast app, you should be able to click write a review, give us the stars you think it deserves. And click Send. And then my show it’s the same link or if you’re on the Evan Brand show on your podcast app, click right review. Give us some stars. Let us know how we do and then if you want to reach out, we can help you make a customized protocol where you’re not spending all of your money guessing the philosophy is test don’t guess so you can reach out to Justin clinically. That is We work with people around the world my website And we’ll be back next week for more fun.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent Evan. Will you did a great job closing things up. You guys have a phenomenal week. And we’ll be back. Take care.

Evan Brand:  See you later. Bye now.


Audio Podcast:

Understanding the Benefits of Adaptogenic Herbs for Your Adrenal Health

By Dr. Justin Marchegiani

Stress is at the root of many modern illnesses. Though some stress is necessary for keeping your immune system agile and for helping you stay alive in dangerous situations, prolonged and persistent stress can contribute to anxiety, insomnia, heart disease, leaky gut, adrenal fatigue and many autoimmune conditions.

Unfortunately, most of us are exposed to chronic and persistent stressors, such as long hours at work, traffic, and worrying about finances. While some stress is normal, its impact on your health can be minimized by managing and relieving stress in a healthy manner. More and more people are turning to adaptogens for stress relief and adrenal balance!

What Are Adaptogens?    

Adaptogens are herbs and plants which have been used for centuries in Chinese and Ayurvedic healing traditions for helping the body react healthily to stress. Non-toxic in nature, adaptogens manage all kinds of stressors whether they are chemical, biological or physical. They help to balance the body and support the adrenals.

While some adaptogens are used for stimulating the body and enhancing mental performance, others are used for their calming effects. Adaptogens can boost strength and vitality, combat adrenal fatigue, and treat various issues- from asthma to infertility! These special plants and herbs can also support the natural circadian rhythm of the body and help promote more restful sleep.

Click here to work with a functional medicine doctor to get to the root problem of your health concerns!

How do adaptogens work?

To understand the working of adaptogens, you need to look at the “HPA axis”. Your hypothalamus is the part of your brain which recognizes stress. When you are feeling stressed, your hypothalamus sends signals to your pituitary glands, which signals to your adrenals to produce and release stress hormones. This is known as your Hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal or HPA axis.

Chronic stress keeps your HPA axis engaged on a constant basis. This can affect your sleep, mood, immune system, blood sugar, thyroid, appetite and much more, which has a bad effect on your overall health. Being in a constant state of biological stress is also quite taxing to your adrenal glands and micronutrient reserves.

Your adrenal glands have to work extremely hard to keep up with the demand of being constantly engaged. Chronic stress can fatigue your adrenals, leading to adrenal dysfunction and burnout.  

Adaptogenic herbs promote a more balanced response to persistent stress. They also help regulate the production of stress hormones and cortisones, which protects against adrenal fatigue and HPA axis dysfunction. By modulating cellular sensitivity to stress hormones, adaptogens encourage a healthier response to stress overall.   

The following are some of the best adaptogens which have been studied for their positive effects on stress relief and adrenal balance.

Ashwagandha is a powerful adaptogen which has been shown to reduce inflammation, calm the mind, and lower blood pressure. It also enhances the activity of immune cells which help to fight off infections and cancer.  Its anti-inflammatory effects help to relieve pain associated with arthritis.

Ashwagandha boosts adrenal function, and is a favorite for balancing stress hormones, enabling anxiety relief, and increasing energy in those who are suffering from adrenal fatigue.

How can adaptogenic herbs help you? Click here to ask a functional medicine doctor!

Maca is both an adaptogen and superfood which makes it unique. It is grown in the Andes Mountains. Maca is a root vegetable which is rich in protein, calcium, fiber, magnesium and amino acids like arginine and glycine. It has been used medicinally for centuries for improving mood and symptoms of adrenal fatigue.

Maca regulates hormones by increases hormone production when your body is under-producing, and brings down hormone production when your body is over-producing hormones. With continual use, maca nourishes and enhances the function of the pituitary gland and hypothalamus, which helps to restore the adrenals.

Maca is very tasty and can be taken both as a food or in supplement form. It has a nutty, butterscotch-like flavor which can be mixed easily into smoothies or even baked goods for a strong energy boost!

Ginseng Chronic stress can contribute to inflammation and trigger many illnesses on account of an imbalanced immune response and hormone dysfunction. Ginseng has the ability to greatly reduce chronic stress by regulating the HPA axis, and decreasing depression, anxiety and other HPA axis related disorders.  It can also help to prevent autoimmune disease by suppressing proinflammatory cytokines which are generated by chronic stress.

Rhodiola Excessive cortisol (primary stress hormone) can cause depletion of your nutrient reserves, impair your memory, and can have damaging effects on your blood sugar, blood pressure and metabolism. Rhodiola is an adaptogen which has been proven to lower the secretion of cortisol during stressful situations. It can increase energy and concentration in people who have been suffering from adrenal fatigue. It also has anti-depressive and cardioprotective effects.

We hope that this article has helped you better understand the benefits of adaptogenic herbs for your adrenal health. Do you use any adaptogenics? Let us know your favorites in the comments section!



Hack Your Brain and Your Sleep – Evan Brand Podcast #29

Sleep plays a huge factor in one’s health, creativity and productivity.  The lack of it affects our blood sugar levels, hormones, ages our skin, as well as make our brain foggy.  Sleep problems can even lead to a more serious illness if not properly addressed.

In this podcast, learn from Evan Brand of Not Just Paleo ways to beat stress, improve brain function, performance and well-being through Biohacking protocols, supplements and other cutting edge techniques for enhancing one’s sleep.

Evan Brand is a nutritional therapist and personal trainer who specializes in Paleo and ancestral nutrition, blood sugar regulation, digestive health, cognitive enhancement, stress management and sleep enhancement.

In this episode we cover:

18:40   Adaptogenic herbs

22:20   Brain hacking supplements

30:41   What is PQQ?

32:31   REM Rehab Program

37:29   Grounding and Earthing

39:10   Spirituality and Gratitude

45:05   Moving Meditation








Podcast: Play in New Window|Download

Justin Marchegiani:  Hey, there this is Dr. Justin and welcome back to Beyond Wellness Radio.  Again we have our guest today, Evan Brand, from and we are really fortunate to have you on the show today, Evan.  How are you doing?

Evan Brand:  Hey, I am doing great, Justin and probably ten times better because you and I just got to talk and hang out for an hour beforehand.

Justin Marchegiani:  That was awesome.  Great experience.  I am looking forward to repaying the favor here.

Evan Brand:  Yes, Sir.

Justin Marchegiani:  So, Evan, tell me a little bit more about you.  How did you get into this phase?

Evan Brand:  It started out in college.  I have realized that the nurturing of my grandparents and my parents and all that had been shielding me from the reality of becoming a man.   And I have realized that once you get your first taste of real stress of being an adult that it tends to put an impact on your health.  So I was working at UPS, third shift to pay for college.  They had this pretty cool program there where you get 100% of your tuition paid for at the University of Louisville.  So I thought, cool I am going to try it out and I am going to business school, and I had these, all these dreams and all that and I have always been an entrepreneur.  I started out selling hot fries in middle school to all the kids, you know.  Going to Sam’s Club and buying them for 15 cents a pop and selling them for a dollar.  So I have this entrepreneurial mindset from the very beginning and eventually transition that into other things as I got older.  But really once I was having trouble getting out of bed; it was 3 pm when I was waking up I was having trouble getting out of bed.  My shift at UPS would start a midnight or 12:30 even.  I mean it was ridiculous.  I was killing myself literally.  I just kind of got fed up with it.  My acne was out of control.  My gut was out of control.  I got the official “diagnosis of irritable bowel syndrome”.  So it was just sort of a combination of all these things that really started to add up.  I got fed up with being told that all I could do was take acid blockers and take, I do not even know what all, I mean, these ridiculous recommendations that had nothing to do with what was actually the problem.  So, I think, often the best teachers are the ones that struggled themselves with their health.  And so I am kind of the perfect candidate for that.

Justin Marchegiani:  Totally makes sense.  So how was your transformation like?  What was it like?   So you had all these issues.  You had some of the IBS.  You had these skin issues.  What were some of the first steps that you took to kind of get better and heal yourself?

Evan Brand:  Well, I had a friend who was into amateur body building.  So, I took this super-high protein approach.  Just tons of chicken breasts and green beans and broccoli and rice and pasta at that time because, “Oh you got to be high carb, right?”  To be an athlete.  So, I put on a pretty good amount of weight.  I went from 120 pounds to about 170 in about a year or two.  So, fifty solid pounds and stayed relatively lean but my stomach was still screwed up.  And then I found out, “Oh pasta has gluten!”  Gluten tears up your stomach.  And so I pulled it out and then magically all of a sudden my acne was not nearly as bad and I was not running to the bathroom with diarrhea.  I was kind of like, “Whoa, this is ridiculous.”  One little tweaking of the diet, pulling out one, it was a food group, man.  It really was.  Pulling out that food group of pasta was enough to make me feel better.  That was kind of like the catapult into I guess what you call the alternative health space.  I hate that it is called alternative but that was my entry point.  And then, from thereon delving into supplements, delving into herbs, adaptogens, smart drugs, I mean I have done the gamut of, you know, float tanks and acupressure mats and just anything and everything that may make me better or feel better or think better, I am down with that.

Justin Marchegiani:  So what was your experience from people around you and your health care providers when you are like, “Yes, I am just going to cut out these food group, called grains.”  What was your experience?  Was it a blow back?

Evan Brand:  There always is.  I mean, even my grandma, “Evan, you need to eat.  You are going to get too skinny.  You need to eat some bread.”  “Grandma, I am fine.  Look, I promise, you know.”  There was a little bit of blow back but not so much from the medical profession because I just quit seeing them.  I did not have the opportunity to go back and waste my money saying, “Hey, look I am better; here is what you need to teach your people.”  So, I am curious as to what they would have said though.

Justin Marchegiani:  Isn’t amazing how from certain people I find this when you are telling your story to people, they feel guilty?  Their response is like, “Isn’t that extreme?  You just need a little more balance or moderation in your life.”

Evan Brand:  Right.

Justin Marchegiani:  They try telling Superman that he just needs a little bit more moderation with kryptonite.

Evan Brand:  Right.

Justin Marchegiani:  He needs a little bit more balanced approach with kryptonite because it is just kryptonite, right?

Evan Brand:  Yes, and that is the same thing with people that still to this day try to offer you just one bite of a brownie or one bite of a cookie as if there is some sort of, if it is less than this threshold then you are fine.  For me the threshold is zero.  I mean even just a little bit is not worth it for me.  I do not want to feel brain fogged and I think that is something for people to take home is that the little people that want to temp you and kind of poke at you.

Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.

Evan Brand:  Just let that blow off your shoulder.  It is definitely not worth the side effects.

Justin Marchegiani:  So, it really sounds like you are in touch with what your kryptonite was and then you were committed to kind of cutting that out of your diet to improve your performance.

Evan Brand:  Eventually, yes.  It sounds simple like that but it was a lot trial and error and lot of days spent hanging out near the bathroom because my stomach was just, pshhh… flushed everything out.  But eventually, yes, it became that simple.

Justin Marchegiani:  So, if you could have gone back in time when you were dealing with all of these problems, what would you have told yourself so you could have gotten better faster?

Evan Brand:  That you should not listen to other people mostly and that you need to listen to yourself and that if you go to eat something.  I mean even something like if I were to do a protein shake that probably has sucralose or artificial sweeteners or things that were destroying my stomach I have this inherent gut feeling that something was not right.  But I was listening to other people. “Yeah, man.  You got to take this protein.  This is how you get big.  This is how you build muscle.”

Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Evan Brand:  And so, to go back and answer the question, pay attention to myself or me speaking here, pay attention to yourself.  If your gut is telling you something is not right, it is probably not right.  If your heart is telling you that this is not the path that you need to go, that is not the path you need to go.  If third shift is killing you and you know it is killing you, you need to quit that job sooner.  Do not wait two years down the road until you cannot even drag yourself out of bed and now you decide that you want to quit.  So taking action sooner would probably be the biggest message.

Justin Marchegiani:  That totally makes sense.  And I know you coach patients, I think from all over the country, right?  All over the world.

Evan Brand:  Yes, I mean, it is always hard with the time schedule once you get passed a certain amount of time zones.

Justin Marchegiani:  Exactly.  So what are the main issues that you are seeing with your patients or clients?

Evan Brand:  It is always stress related.  I mean I could go in, I probably do not go as deep as you into blood testing or things like that.  That is something I am eventually going to work into.  But for me, I do not need to go that deep because if I can just figure out what are the huge stressors that are causing people their issues, I can fix that without ever having to draw a drop of blood.  I would like to get to that level.  But at this point, whether it is work stress or even relationship stress.  For example, the average 42-45 year old woman whose husband still wants to eat pizza and ice cream and he thinks that dieting is stupid and that Paleo or anything close to it, a Primal or Ancestral whatever type diet, it is a diet.  I do not want to do that.

Justin Marchegiani:   Right.

Evan Brand:  And so it is just hard for me to convince the spouse that this is not a diet.  Everyone has a diet.  This is going to make the difference between your relationship because if your mood is jacked up because your gut is jacked up because the diet is not right.  I mean I could probably say that I have saved a couple of divorces from happening because I fixed someone’s gut by fixing the stress, by fixing the diet.  So really that is kind of my approach.  If I could just zoom out and see what are the biggest roadblocks.  “Oh, your husband thinks that what you are doing is stupid.  Okay, let us fix that.”  Usually everything downstream tends to go a little bit smoother.

Justin Marchegiani:   That makes a lot of sense.  And I see it’s a lot of the women that are really proactive.  And a lot of the guys that I treat, they typically come into my office with their wife or their girlfriend kind of pulling them by the ear.  Is that kind of your experience, too?

Evan Brand:  Oh, definitely, yes.  I mean, it is probably 80% women and 20% men.  And the men, they have trouble admitting that something is wrong.   Or they have, I do not know, it makes men feel weak to cry and to say that I am hurting and I am in pain.  And I think we have been conditioned to feel like we have to be so macho.  And I have been broken down to the point in tears, man, just from being ill.

Justin Marchegiani:   Right.

Evan Brand:  And that is okay.  And just being honest with yourself.  I mean, that goes really far as opposed to just repressing your negative emotions.

Justin Marchegiani:   Right.  And a lot of the guys that I see and treat, they are biohackers.  They are like at a level and they would like, “How can I get to the best level?”  So you get those kind of guys and they are really great patients.  And then you get the other guys that get dragged in.  So, when you are dealing with a woman, a spouse, her husband, and maybe the husband more than likely is not accepting some of the diet changes.  How do you go about getting everyone on the same page?

Evan Brand:  Basically just explaining that it is not anything that sounds ridiculous at all.  I mean there are some guys, especially here in Texas that are hunters that live out in Bastrop or somewhere outside of Austin and they are hunters.  And it is like, “You know what, man?  That deer meat is probably the best thing in your diet.  You know.  You have pork rinds and slim jims and stuff like that but, man, did you know what you are eating, that venison there is probably what I would almost consider a superfood for you.”  And just breaking it down like that it blows their minds.   It is like, “Oh I have been hunting for 20 years, man.  This is just my way of life.”  And it is like, “Okay, you are doing the right thing, man.  There are just a couple of other things that we need to align here.”  And so I try to reward what they are doing right as opposed to hit on what they are doing wrong and to harp on that.  I feel like if you give somebody a compliment that literally opens the door of perception and then you could say, “Hey, but the pasta you are having or the noodles you are putting in your venison chili that maybe is something that we need to swap out.”  And then they are a lot more receptive of that message.

Justin Marchegiani:   Right.  So, focus on what is going right, do not complain about what is going wrong.

Evan Brand:  Yes, well, I eventually get to what is going wrong.

Justin Marchegiani:   Of course.

Evan Brand:  But I definitely try to start.

Justin Marchegiani:   Yes, that makes a lot of sense.  Now in our pre-interview before the show, you mentioned some really cool things that I did not know about you.  So you mentioned that you formulate and you worked with Onnit Supplementation.  Can you talk to me about kind of what your role was in formulating supplements and how you go about doing it?  Were you researching?   Were you experimenting on yourself?  Can you kind of touch upon that?

Evan Brand:  Yes, Sure.  It was a really sweet job that I am not doing anymore. But basically the CEO of Onnit, his name is Aubrey Marcus and he is a guy who has a long history of playing with supplements and things like that himself.  He has formulated most of the product line with the help of a couple of doctors and things like that.  He always knew about my experience because we have staff meetings where, it was kind of like bring your supplements to work daily at the staff meeting.  And I brought in this huge backpack and I started talking among the entire staff.  Like, “Oh, you know this is L-theanine, this is if I am trying to boost GABA levels, you know induce a calm state of nervous system.”  And I just kept going on eventually he cut me off.  He said, “Man, let everybody else go out of the office, let us talk.”  And so we started talking about everything I am up to.  And he is like, “Man, what do you think about the position of helping me work on supplements.  Whether improving them, making sure the research and the science is backed up behind them because you know how competitive it is these days.  You have to have studies that are going to back up your Cordyceps mushrooms, for example.

Justin Marchegiani:   Right.

Evan Brand:  Know the oxygen utilization that you are improving, things like that.  So, I said, “Of course, man.”  That is why I moved down to Austin was to work for Onnit anyway so I gladly accepted that position.  And I got to try out a couple little top secret behind the scenes, you know, version 2.0’s and version 3.0’s of supplements that sometimes went really awesome and sometimes I felt like I had to rip my shirt off and sprint out in the woods, you know, to recover because I got boosted up on too many B vitamins a couple of times.

Justin Marchegiani:   Right.

Evan Brand:  But it was an awesome experience and it kind of made me have a deep respect for the combination of nutrients out there.  And it really made me respect the position of companies to where they feel like people do not want to have to take 50 pills to get healthy.  But you have to be careful in specific on the interaction between different things.  And so that was kind of what I learned.  And when you look at science you could say that, say Rhodiola has a good adaptogenic benefit and you could combine vitamins B5 with it because you know that B5 is good to support the adrenal glands or something like that.

Justin Marchegiani:   Right.

Evan Brand:  And then, oh vitamin C is good for that too.  So, oh add vitamin C.  But just because something makes sense in the science when you actually put it into a capsule, put it into a human, you may get a different effect.  So, I think, I do not know if that answers your question, but that was just a takeaway that I learned from him.

Justin Marchegiani:  Right, right.  So, in isolation, things make sense but when they are combined they may not quite work the same way, you would have thought.

Evan Brand:  Right.  So it is just more power to the thought that you really got to test specifically how the blueberries affect you versus raspberries or how does this vitamin affect you versus this vitamin.  So I did a couple of cool things behind the scenes and ran some trials myself on a product that is not out yet but it was a women’s product that was pretty sweet.  And I got to do the before and after pictures and things like that.  So that gives you a little hint on what I was working on.

Justin Marchegiani:   Cool.

Evan Brand:  It was super fun and then you know, surely before my time was up there, I put in a formulation for another product which may eventually hit the shelf.  So if it does I am going to be super pumped up.

Justin Marchegiani:   That is great.  So, based upon what you are at liberty to talk about now, I know there’s some stuff that is still on the works that you cannot touch upon.  What are some of the, maybe the three coolest things, the three coolest products or things that you learned in your research or your supplement design that works the coolest for you?

Evan Brand:  Well, I would say that part of my job was to work on a product for women.  It was basically a thermogenic product.  And so immediately when you hear something that hints its fat burning, people automatically think green tea extract to caffeine, all of these metabolism-boosting ingredients.

Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Evan Brand:  But for me, when I started digging into the research first, I had to spend a lot of time researching ingredients before I even knew what to put in there, right.  And I found out, for example the mainstream has taught that fat burning is all metabolism-based and in my experience in working with people fixing blood sugar and therefore fixing hormone issues and things like that.

Justin Marchegiani:   Insulin, right.

Evan Brand:  Yes, fixing insulin had far greater impact on fat loss than me just trying to crank somebody up on caffeine.  So, basically I kind of disguised what I was working on as a fat burning product but in reality it was basically sort of an almost like an anti‑diabetic supplement with a lot of blood sugar support.  Some 7-keto in there and other things that I thought were going to really hit the root cause of why the person was struggling with fat gain anyway as opposed to just, “Oh let me crank you up on caffeine and tell you to jump on the cardio machine.”

Justin Marchegiani:   Totally makes sense.  That makes a lot of sense.

Evan Brand:  So that was one thing I did that I thought was pretty cool.  And then just inside of the research, I think just something that other people can take away from my experience is that to get in to PubMed and to look around for ingredients yourself and to do your own research, it is not really that hard.  A lot of us in the health community we love to talk about studies and things like that.   And there are a lot of people that only want to hear studies and what the results say and what they are, and that is fine.  But the barrier of entry is really not that bad to just jump on there and you could just research a couple of ingredients on whatever supplement you are taking and see what the science says.  So I think that is pretty sweet, it is easy, you know.

Justin Marchegiani:  Very cool.  So this is awesome because you got this experience and you are kind of well-versed around the research and around these topics.  What is your favorite adaptogenic herb?

Evan Brand:  Oh, man.  I would have to say Rhodiola as you and I talked about on my show.

Justin Marchegiani:   Yes.

Evan Brand:  You are taking Ashwagandha and I am taking that right now which I know it is sort of more closer to a tonic, some sort of long-term thing.  But I really have a lot of good results with Rhodiola especially when I used to work out in the park.  There is a place that people can look up called the Parklands; it is in Louisville, Kentucky and it is 4000 acres.  And so my job was to literally, man, hike all day.  And I was out in the forest.  There were a few lakes on the property where I had to walk around and make sure they were clean and inspect the trails.  Make sure a storm did not knock a tree down and block a trail so mountain bikers comes along, you know, dominates himself on a branch.

Justin Marchegiani:   Right.

Evan Brand:  So, I wanted to have the upper edge on hiking.  And this sort of walking, this long steady state low-impact movement and my diet was good but I still was pretty fatigued at the end of the day.   So, I started adding in some Rhodiola.  I am sure it was extracted to the 3%, Rosavins, I believe you call it.

Justin Marchegiani:  Yes, Rosavins, exactly.

Evan Brand:  And so I had to make sure it was a good quality one.  But after about a month of taking that every day, I mean, after I got off work I could do another 8 hours of hiking.  I felt so good.  Of course, I was eating a lot of jerky and almonds and things like that throughout the day too to keep me going.  But I was really amazed at how just one little simple adaptogens can make a difference in not only my physical strength but my mental capabilities too.  I was listening to a podcast a lot which also kept me into the health field at that time.  And I felt like my memory formation was better.  I was processing things better.  So it was really amazing to see not only a physical benefit but a mental benefit too.  So, Rhodiola is my pick.

Justin Marchegiani:   That is great.  And what was the dosage you are using?

Evan Brand:  500 mg.

Justin Marchegiani:   Just once a day?

Evan Brand:  Yes, just once a day.

Justin Marchegiani:  That’s it.  Wow!  So when I use adaptogenic herbs, well, let us just back up a little bit.  The adaptogenic herbs are a family of herbs that tend to modulate stress.  So there are some that help more with the adrenal side of things where if you are stressed it actually bring the stress down.  If you are under energized they can actually bring you up.  So, there are certain families where Ashwagandha or Indian Ginseng tends to be helpful with anxiety and thyroid.  Rhodiola tends to be helpful with depression and moodEleuthero for immune system and sex hormones.  Maca for libido.  Ginseng for energy.  So there are all these different families of herbs and they really have a different kind of a profile in how they help.  So you like Rhodiola the best, you said, right?

Evan Brand:  Yes, and I initially went in, I mean, depression was a huge thing for me which you brought up.  That was a huge thing for me and I noticed an improvement in that as well.  And I am sure being out in nature which we could talk about a little bit.  Maybe some of the science behind forest bathing and things like that.

Justin Marchegiani:   Yes.

Evan Brand:  I was definitely getting my neurotransmitters boosted and/or balanced out from being immersed in literally a dense forest with often times a creek running through it.  That was a huge impact.

Justin Marchegiani:   Very cool.

Evan Brand:  It was nice to see that the depression/energy boost from Rhodiola.  Yes the adaptogens are awesome.

Justin Marchegiani:  They are really cool.  Alright.  So that is Rhodiola as your number one there.  What is your best brain-hacking supplement or your favorite?

Evan Brand:  Oh, man.  Well, so I had free access to Alpha BRAIN which is Onnit’s bestseller.

Justin Marchegiani:   What is in that?  Is that Alpha GPC?  PQQ?

Evan Brand:  No PQQ but Alpha GPC, tyrosine.  There is a little bit of theanine in there.

Justin Marchegiani:   Or GABA.

Evan Brand:  And Phosphatidylserine.  So just a pretty what is considered more of a balanced brain vitamin.  I had a lot of good experience with it.  I would say it is definitely on my top 5.  Another company TruBRAIN.  I had the guy Dr. Andrew Hill, the neuroscientist who formulated it.  I had him come on my show to talk about why he thinks this is a superior product.  And it was full of smart drugs like Piracetam and Oxiracetam.  And also has some alpha GPC’s and tyrosine, magnesium, things like that and so I took that.  I mean, I was blown away.  But those are two separate categories.  You know, you are talking smart drugs that are more synthetic as opposed to like a plant-based brain vitamin.  So, I would say that those are probably the top two.  I cannot think of any others right off.

Justin Marchegiani:  What is that brand called by Dr. Andrew Hill?

Evan Brand:  Yes, it is called TruBRAIN.

Justin Marchegiani:   Those are nootropics?  TruBRAIN.

Evan Brand:  Uh-uh.

Justin Marchegiani:   Okay.  Got it.

Evan Brand:  Yes, and so I am sure they would send you a little care package. What they sent me are the drinks.  They are calling it actually the first nootropics drink and so it is just a little packet.

Justin Marchegiani:  Nootropics.

Evan Brand:  Yes, and so it is like a little squeeze pack basically.  The taste is pretty good.  I think they sweetened it with stevia or agave or something.  But anyway, this is kind of a fun little portable way.  I think I would consider that like a level 2 for somebody.  I mean, if they already had experience with nootropics and stuff they could go into that.  But to start off by going straight to Oxiracetam which is very potent…

Justin Marchegiani:   Yes.

Evan Brand:  I do not think that is necessary for most people.

Justin Marchegiani:   Right.  And would you do that every day or would you more like to save it for like studying for a test or you are in a really intense conference for a weekend and you are learning a lot?  Like when would you use it?   Would it be daily?

Evan Brand:  Definitely not daily for me and definitely closer to the second thing that you mentioned, conferences I love to be on adaptogens especially like Paleo f(x) and come time for conferences, man.  I am pumping extra vitamins and adaptogens there to be on top of my game.

Justin Marchegiani:  Oh, yes.

Evan Brand:  So that is kind of more my use; use as needed.  The first time I had just received it before I was going to take some test for my schooling that I am going through right now to be a nutritional therapist.  And it was a 3-day weekend.  So I took one dosage of it for everyday for those 3 days for that entire weekend.  And everyone else was so burnt out and so fatigued by the end of three-eight hour workdays, basically.  And I was still feeling pretty good.  I was tired but, I mean, I had a huge improvement in recovery.  The gas tank did not get depleted as much as it normally would have.

Justin Marchegiani:   Yes, I see a lot of these adaptogenic herbs and you can use them everyday because of the science in them.  The Russians had so much studies in the 50’s and 40’s and 60’s on theses adaptogenic herbs on their soldiers, on their astronauts, their athletes to really improve function.  They did lots of long-term studies with great success.  So, I see the adaptogenic kind of being like an everyday kind of thing.  And then some of these nootropics is being like an acute, “Hey, its finals time.”  “There’s a conference coming up.”     “I got to cram and get this book done.”  And whatever it is as being a more punctuated kind of a thing.

Evan Brand:  Definitely, man.  Yes, you hit it on the head.  And for me, I am always, not concerned but a little bit skeptical and cautious about dipping my toes into certain smart drugs and things like Oxiracetam where if you look at PubMed you are not going to find anything over ten or even twenty studies on it.  And a lot of the times these were done on rats that were induced with brain disorders, you know.  They would give rats Parkinson’s or something like that and then test it.  Which is showing great benefit but there is just a lack of human studies at this point which still, I think, adds to the barrier of entry for most people.

Justin Marchegiani:   So what do you think about Piracetam or Aniracetam?  One is water-soluble, Piracetam and one is fat soluble, Aniracetam.

Evan Brand:  I have taken both.  I got my dad on Piracetam for a while.  He was taking a few grams per day.

Justin Marchegiani:   Wow!

Evan Brand:  Yes, because his doctor wanted to prescribe Adderall.  I was just like, “Come on!  I have seen way too many people get destroyed by Adderall, long-term, long-term.  And maybe you could pitch people in on that too in your experience.  So I had him on Piracetam for a while and he had pretty good benefit.  Me, personally, Piracetam did not do too much for me but I did not take it very long term.  I took it maybe for a couple of weekends.  I also experimented with things on the other end of the neurotransmitter spectrum like Phenibut then started playing around with GABA levels.  I tell this funny story.  Me and my dad, we went to this place called Huber’s in Indiana.  It is a winery.  And so you are not supposed to mix stuff that is going to mess with GABA and alcohol.

Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Evan Brand:  So, anyway.

Justin Marchegiani:   That is way you are not supposed to drink and then take Xanax.  Just FYI.

Evan Brand:  Right, right.  So me and my dad took a little pinch of Phenibut.  Some people pronounce it “fe-ni-byoot”.

Justin Marchegiani:   Right.

Evan Brand:  And I am not trying to get away from your question but this is in the same category of nootropics here.  So we took a little pinch of that and we did a wine tasting.  Actually, I did not think I was 21 so I do not think I drank anything but my dad did.  And I kind of mentioned, “Dad, you know, you are adding fuel to the fire here.”  And so we went through this little wine tasting.  He tasted maybe five or six, I am telling you, just little pinches of wine. (Laughs)  And by the end of this wine tasting, I mean he was like cloud 9.  I mean, he was feeling good.  He was not sick or anything but he was like, “Oh, my God!”  He was like, “I felt like I drank six shots of whiskey or something and like what is going on?”  And so that was kind of a lesson for me that this stuff can be very impactful but nonetheless, it resulted in that whole area as a memorable day.

Justin Marchegiani:  That is good.  And I am glad to hear that you were not under age drinking.  If you were though, your secret is safe with us and the podcast listeners.  So do not worry.  (Laughs)

Evan Brand:  (Laughs) Thanks for that.

Justin Marchegiani:   No problem.  So, you did kind of side stepped my question so I am going to come back and corner you a little bit.  So you mentioned Piracetam not the best for you.  Your dad liked it.  What do you think about Aniracetam?  I know people like, Dave Asprey like Aniracetam. What is your take on Aniracetam?

Evan Brand:  So, I actually have a bottle with me of Aniracetam from when Dave was actually still, I don’t even know if you would call it, illegally selling Aniracetam, it ended up getting pulled off because you cannot really do that.  But I still have a bottle of it.

Justin Marchegiani:   Right.

Evan Brand:  I mean, it is great stuff.  So when I drove down here to Austin, it is a 15-hour drive from Louisville, Kentucky when I moved down here.  I took two capsules of Aniracetam, man.  And that is by far the greatest thing I could have done to improve my mental focus for one on the road.  You know, how you can start to get sleepy on road trips.

Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.

Evan Brand:  I was zoned in, man.   I was grabbing that steering wheel.

Justin Marchegiani:   It was like you are on.

Evan Brand:  I was jamming with the music.  I am like get me there.  So I am like more of an acute user of it.  But honestly I have not touched it in the last six months probably even a year.  But when I did use it my brain was on a whole another level.  And while I was driving, of course the road trips are a good time for anybody to think.  My creativity was definitely enhanced.

Justin Marchegiani:   Oh, yes.  That is great.  I have been doing, like the bulletproof coffee with the MCT and then really hitting up high doses of PQQ with adaptogenic herbs and then some of the neurotransmitters for serotonin and dopamine. Dopamine, the 5-HTP and the L-tyrosine, that just like gets my brain on.

Evan Brand:  Tell me a little bit about the PQQ.  I am sure other people are curious about it too.

Justin Marchegiani:  Yes, so Dave Asprey put in one of these new products and that is a good one too.  But PQQ is this Pyrroloquinoline Quinone, it is really a long kind of weird word, but PQQ is the nickname for it.  Basically, it is like a mitochondria fuel.  And it also has the ability to bring back to life damaged mitochondria which is really cool.  So anyone that is not familiar with bio chem, your mitochondria basically are like little powerhouses of the cell that generate ATP and fuel and it also burns fat for fuel.  So a lot of toxins and a lot of drugs actually damage mitochondria.  So PQQ is going to help your mitochondria create more energy and also help bring back to life some of the damaged mitochondria from neurotoxins or stress or the environment whatever.

Evan Brand:  Sounds like everybody should probably be taking it.

Justin Marchegiani:   Yes, I use that with the combination of CoQ10 on days that I really want to be on and it’s like, Boom! Ready to go.

Evan Brand:  That is great.  Well, thanks for explaining that.

Justin Marchegiani:   Yes.  And you like this TruBRAIN.  So I like that.  I am going to give them a call and try some of this.

Evan Brand:  Yes, definitely.   I can just email them and forward your email over to them.  They would love to hear from you and he would be a good guest for your show as well.  He has got tons of experience working with addiction and rebalancing neurotransmitters and thing like that.  So you guys would hit it off.

Justin Marchegiani:  Awesome, thanks.

Evan Brand:  No problem.

Justin Marchegiani:   So tell me a little bit more about your REM rehab.  I know you mentioned a lot about kind of getting out in nature to kind of reset things: from a sleep rhythm, from just a stress rhythm.  I know you got this new stress program that is out.  Can you talk more about your REM rehab and just some of your experiences with nature?

Evan Brand:  Yes.  So, REM rehab it was my, basically like I mentioned I struggled first and then solved my own health problems.  And so that is why I created it because sleep issues are epidemic.  I mean, it is 70 plus percent of the population.  I mean probably a hundred million or more people are struggling in the United States alone from chronic sleep deprivation and sleep related issues.  So basically this program, it is an e-book, an audio book, and then 4 hours of interviews with naturopathic doctors and other people to give their specific lens on sleep but then I go in to eating for sleep, making sure that you are getting good quality meats that are going to provide the raw materials to make your neurotransmitters.

Justin Marchegiani:  Tryptophan, right, yes.

Evan Brand:  Yes.  So, and kind of explaining the process of the conversion from tryptophan over to serotonin and the co-factors and eventually the melatonin.  And I kind of explained why vegetarians and vegans that come to me they have horrible sleep.  Because they may be eating some nuts but they are not getting the quality meats that are going to provide these raw materials to make neurotransmitters for sleep.  So I am kind of dispelling some myths there.  But then also after providing eating for sleep information I go into some more, I guess you would call Biohacking protocols using things like light therapy.  For example, the average indoor light bulb under fluorescent lighting someone in an office is exhausted.  You are getting maybe 500 lux which is a measurement of brightness and I was using a 10,000 lux light box.

Justin Marchegiani:   Wow!

Evan Brand:  And I was using that before I went to work because obviously I was doing the vampire shift so I was using a light box at 11:30 to basically trick my brain and basically biohack to teach my brain that it is morning when technically it is midnight and I am about to go in for a 5-hours shift.

Justin Marchegiani:   Wow!

Evan Brand:  So, I am not saying that people need to do that but light therapy is one of the protocols that I use in that program to help people reset their circadian rhythms.  If there is someone who is freezing, like you mentioned you are from Boston.  If you are in Boston this time of the year you are freezing and you probably do not want to go outside, so it will be much more easy to convince you to use a light box in the comfort of your home instead.

Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Evan Brand:  So, that is one thing.  And then also I talk about sensory deprivation tanks.  I am a big proponent of using float tanks to basically not only help for mediation purposes which can clear the mind and allows you to sleep. So I am hitting on the mental aspect of sleep but also just the transdermal absorption of magnesium is super, super helpful for relaxing the nervous system and allowing you to fall asleep easier.  So that is just some of the kind of stuff that is in REM Rehab but people can check it out on my website if they like.

Justin Marchegiani:   We are going to put links to this, Evan on the show notes.  So anyone that really wants to dig a little bit deeper which, I deal with patients all the time with sleep issues.  I am going to have to get this and read it myself and see if I can pick up some more tidbits.  So, we will put it on the show notes and feel free to click on it and support Evan.

Evan Brand:  Sweet.  Yes.  I will send it right over to you.

Justin Marchegiani:   So, without giving away too much, because you want people to get the book, what are like one or two, just from a lifestyle perspective that people can do to help improve their sleep?

Evan Brand:  Well, I think so much in the modern world we are so focused on killing it and crushing it.

Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Evan Brand:  And you see all these social media pictures and posters about you being a sissy if you are not working any 8-hour work weeks and all of that.  And I think that is ridiculous.  I really do.  I am all about being productive.  You and I are both fans of increasing our productivity.

Justin Marchegiani:   Absolutely.

Evan Brand:  And the minimal effective dose of whether it is exercise or blog writing or whatever, we want to crank it up and get it done, right?

Justin Marchegiani:   Yes.

Evan Brand:  I am not a fan of this work until you die mentality.  And it is really detrimental to the body but just to your happiness.  And a lot of sleep issues stem from the fact that people are just working, working, working and they are not meditating.  They are not spending time outside ever.  They are not spending time in nature specifically and so at night the mind is going sort of through this mental detox like, “Look, man! You have never thought about how you are enjoying your current life.  You have never thought about what you said to your wife last night at the dinner table.”  And so now these stuff are going to come up.  Because you know what?  You have not taken the required time that humans always have when we were hunting and gathering.  All these time spent out on the trail walking.  I think that was the time for mental decompression.  And we simply do not have that.  So, one of the things that I hit on is the fact that you have to integrate some sort of either meditation practice, even just a 5 or 10 minute walk around the block.

Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Evan Brand:  Something to open these channels of thought to really expel some of these pent up emotions and pent up thoughts so that they are not keeping you up at night.  And I think that is huge.

Justin Marchegiani:   That is good.  Good.  And what do you think about grounding or earthing?  I mean, you got like the Earthing mats I sleep on one of those.  What do you think about going barefoot outside before bed?  What are your takes on earthing or grounding?

Evan Brand:  Yes, so it is definitely in the hacking sleep protocol.  It is right there next to the float tanks.  I was sort of skeptical of earthing mats and things like that before.  I definitely have one and I sleep on one a few nights a week myself.  But it is a no brainer.

Justin Marchegiani:   Yes.

Evan Brand:  It is one of those things where people have to have some scientific explanation.  It is like there is not even a need to explain it.  We have always been bare feet.  We have always been immersed in nature.  We were always touching the grass or touching the dirt or touching the trees.  So to be skeptical about the idea that that could heal and even reduce inflammation and improve your sleep quality, I mean, it is a no brainer.   So, yes I love the idea of earthing. And for people that are travelling over multiple time zones, I would say anything more than like three to four time zones that is the best thing you can do.  I told my dad when he flew over to China for work, and I told him, I said, “Dad, when you get over there you are going to be jacked up.  You need to make sure you that you get your bare feet on some grass over there and take a little bit of melatonin to make sure that you are going to adjust.”  And he said that it helped him.

Justin Marchegiani:  Yes, and I think, just to add on to that.   I think exactly what you said it is seeing, taking the melatonin at sunset but also being grounding and watching the sun rise is really helpful.  Gets that pineal gland and the hypothalamus, it is just like, “All right this is the new rhythm now.  Sun is coming up cortisol needs to come up now.   So, I totally agree.

Evan Brand:  Yes, and also try to have this undertone of adding spirituality to your overall life.  We are spiritual creatures by nature and that does not automatically infer religion or anything like that.

Justin Marchegiani:   Right.

Evan Brand:  But we are spiritual creatures.  I mean even the Native Americans thought that the rocks, and the wind, and the waters, and the trees all spoke and had this certain alive energy and they are alive.  And I think just trying to re‑frame your current outlook on nature.  I mean, you could work in a 50-floor high rise in New York City while you are listening to this show but you are still dependent on the natural world for your produce, for your water, for the very food that you eat that sustains you.  And so, I think trying to bridge the gap between that disconnection to the natural world can be really helpful for not only reducing your stress but therefore improving your sleep quality.

Justin Marchegiani:   Great, great question.  You touched upon one of those trigger words for me, spirituality.  It is a very abstract word.  So I want to dig a little bit more into that at how someone could be more spiritual.  Is that more about gratitude?  About realizing you are part of something bigger, giving forward to your community, in saying thanks for the food you eat.  What does that mean to you?  And how can our listeners try to be a little more spiritual?

Evan Brand:  Yes, I would say a gratitude journal is the best place to start.  Actually I just had to look at a study yesterday talking about how people like you and I, people that are health care practitioners are chronically stressed.

Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Evan Brand:  And more stressed than the average person.  And so they took some nurses and had them do either a complaint or a gratitude journal and then of course there was the control group.  And they had these nurses fill out a gratitude journal only twice per week for four weeks.  And that was enough to significantly reduce their stress.  And I am pretty sure they threw the word spirituality in there somewhere because that was the context that I was searching for.  Health care practitioners aside, everybody could add gratitude to their life.  It is so easy to get caught up in, you know, the first world problems and thing like that.

Justin Marchegiani:   Yes.

Evan Brand:  That we really lose sight of the great luxuries that we have presented to us.  I mean the light switch, the availability of clean drinking water and things like that.  Those are super amazing things that would blow the minds of people across the planet today.

Justin Marchegiani:   I totally agree.

Evan Brand:  And it is easy to forget that we have that, man.  So every time I even take a drink of spring water it is not like I am bowing down to it but I just try to, “I am so thankful for this water that is going to hydrate me right now.”

Justin Marchegiani:  I agree.  I think you hit it right on the head.  It is really just realizing, you know, we are part of something deeper and then really having gratitude and thanks and humility for it.  I start my day personally, I wake up, I get my shoes on and I do some reading to really get my, change my state and I go into a state of gratitude for about 5 to 8 minutes just as I am walking and I am just kind of talking to myself or thinking about all the things in my life that I am thankful for.  And it is a huge shift in the stress.

Evan Brand:  Oh, man that is beautiful.  You are already a proponent and it sounds like you are already experiencing the results too which matters the most.

Justin Marchegiani:   Especially a lot of the people that listen to our show, they are doers, they are executives, and they are entrepreneurs.  They are out there doing, doing.  And it is so easy when you are motivated to be just focusing on what is next, what is next, what is next and you are focused on getting to point B but you have not looked behind you and see how far you have gone from A to B.  And you got to kind of have some gratitude and thanks for that.

Evan Brand:  Amen, yes.  I mean I am guilty of that myself.  I see the podcast stats and I have hit like 23 on the top health charts.  And I like, “Man, I want to be top 10!”

Justin Marchegiani:   Yes.

Evan Brand:  And I feel like my content is top 10 worthy but yet I do not realize just two years ago I was in my bedroom just scribbling on a little notebook of this idea of what is now called “Not Just Paleo”, you know.  And I had to basically slap myself and say, “Look, man!  Look where you’ve came from.  You were just a dude, a college kid struggling and now you are helping people.”  And it is kind of like a slap to the face to really let me re-frame and appreciate the journey that I have been on myself.  And I think everybody could do some sort of re‑framing activity like that and find that there’s a lot to be grateful for.

Justin Marchegiani:  I totally agree.  And I think it has a huge help and a huge support, I mean, on the neurotransmitters and on the adrenals.  And I have talked to and worked with a lot of professional athletes.  And when you work with people at a high level, even for them it never ends.  Like, okay let us say your goal is to get to the NFL or the NBA.  Now once you are there, now the goal is to be the best, to win the World Cup, or to win the National Championship.  Or now it is to be, you know, the All-Pro and get the MVP, it never ends even at the highest level.  So it is like you just got to stop resetting yourself and really have some gratitude.  Because it would just never end no matter how good you are at.

Evan Brand:  Oh, definitely.  I think that is part of why we have come to what we are.  I mean, if the caveman was happy with the cave he never would have built a hut.  And if the guy who built the hut was happy with the hut he never would have built the village and then the civilization.  And then now we have the mansion and then you have the speedboat but now you want a faster boat and you want a bigger boat.  You know, it is cool to do that.  It is awesome to continually advance and I think that is what makes us a great species.  But also we got to appreciate the small wins and look at where we have become.  I mean even a light bulb, something like that would have blown your great grandparents minds, you know.

Justin Marchegiani:   I think that is really great.  Our human needs are infinite and I totally agree.  Just that kind of a little exercise in re-centering is important.  You touched upon meditation.  Can you talk about what someone could do if they wanted to get into meditation?  Right now, I use the Headspace app.  Because it is like meditation for dummies that kind of holds my hand through it and it kind of creates accountability for me.  But what are you doing right now for your meditation?  And what can our listeners do?

Evan Brand:  Sure.  I would just say go for a walk outside.  I happen to live on a place where there is a patch of land here that is about 50 acres of forest.  And I think that is the easiest level of entry.  No matter where you are, I know you maybe in the city but I guarantee there are some places you can go and just go for a walk out in nature.  Whether it is with your dog or just by yourself, and I think that is the best way to get introduced to the idea of meditation.   If you are somebody who has heard of it and all you can picture is just somebody sitting there with headphones and binaural beats and their eyes closed and legs crossed and all that.  I am a big fan of moving meditation.

Justin Marchegiani:  Huge fan.

Evan Brand:  Yes, and you could probably attest to what happens in your morning walks that you have alluded to.  There has got to be some meditative aspects to that.  Otherwise, you would not continue doing it.

Justin Marchegiani:   Yes.  Absolutely.  I totally agree.  And I just want to shift gears just backwards a little bit.  Kind of bring it back to your book, REM Rehab.  You have mentioned a couple of things there about melatonin.  I use melatonin. I try not to get my patients on it every night unless I see it low on a lab test.  I always want to get to the root cause of it.  But what is your take, as you are a supplement researcher as well, what is your take on melatonin, on the pineal gland, on the various feedback loops?  What is your take on it?  Is it safe to use every day?  What doses?  And how do you kind of wrap your head around that?

Evan Brand:  Definitely not safe for every day usage.  It is definitely over prescribed, over abused, over used.  And the, whatever you call it, alternative health’s self-help health category, I mean it is ridiculous.  You will see 5-10 mg melatonin tablets.  That is ridiculous.

Justin Marchegiani:   Yes, I know.

Evan Brand:  And I found that the pineal gland is only going to secrete micrograms, I mean not even a milligram in most cases.  And maybe in your lab results, you can fill us in more but I have never seen the reason to use anything over a milligram, maybe 3 mg at the most, an acute use dose if you are doing some extreme travelling, you are just really having some issues with setting your Circadian rhythm.  Maybe you have just, I do not know, went on a vacation in another part of the world and your rhythm is just so screwed.  But it is literally sort of the only use it for emergency, break the glass open and pull out the bottle and use it.

Justin Marchegiani:  Yes, I am kind of the same approach.  I try to only use melatonin just to reset my cycle for the week if I am up late.  And I only recommend it to patients that again have low melatonin on their lab tests.  And then will use, again I try to do about a half a milligram for myself or at the most 1 mg.  So I am in that same boat as you in using them.

Evan Brand:  Yes.  So I had access to the melatonin, these little chewable tablets that also contain lemon balm and things like that.   And so it is a 5 mg tablet.  So if and when I needed to use it I would literally just nibble a corner, and then that will be it.  And so I am going to guess that was probably half, maybe 0.75 mg and that was enough to do the job.

Justin Marchegiani:   That is great.  Awesome.  So, I think now we are going to wrap up the show here.  But before we do that, I want to just give you an opportunity just to kind of fill in our listeners what the three most powerful things are that you are doing right now that would help them in their lives?

Evan Brand:  I feel like a broken record.  But honestly going for daily walks in nature.

Justin Marchegiani:   Cool.

Evan Brand:  Right after you and I get off here I am probably going to go for another walk.  We finally got sunshine back in Austin again.

Justin Marchegiani:  Yes, it is great out today.

Evan Brand:  Number two, I would say to cultivate and nourish love in whatever aspects.  I got married in July so I am still pretty much a newly wed.  But just really feeding into love and feeding into a relationship.   I do not care if you love your dog and that is all you have to love right now.  Just loving something it really is a powerful thing.  And you have heard so many quotes throughout your life.  Some of them cheesy, some of them really profound about love, you know, overpowering fear.  But that is a good one.  And then thirdly, I would just try to create some sort of plan on paper for your life.  There are a lot of people that are listening to your show that want to take it on the next level, like you have mentioned.  And you are focused on B, you can see B know what point B is, you know that you want to have your own business, you want to become a health coach, whatever it is.  But the road to get there and I will tell you myself it is not going to go the way you expect it to go.  It is going to have tons of ups and downs.  Some months are going to be so much better than others.  Some years are going to be better than others.  You have been in the health field much longer and you could attest that there is an ebb and a flow to success.  And everybody is achieving success in some shape or form.  But my recommendation for you is to write down just simple little baby steps to how do you get there.  What is the first step?  For example, if you wanted to start a podcast, you first need to figure out where you get a microphone, you know.

Justin Marchegiani:   Yes.

Evan Brand:  Okay, now what do I want to talk about?  Who do I want to interview?  And so instead of you just visualizing the end result that you want to have a top rated health podcast and you are changing millions of lives across the planet that is cool.  But just start by figuring out how you even hold a microphone and speak into the microphone properly.

Justin Marchegiani:   Exactly.  I remember that journey last year and I get it.  You got to break it up into small little baby steps.  That makes a lot of sense.

Evan Brand:  So, yes, that is number three.

Justin Marchegiani:  Evan, thank you so much for coming on the show.  We are going to have you back next year.  Really appreciate the great info and I think the listeners would love it, too.

Evan Brand:  Well, thanks for having me, man.  You are an awesome dude and an awesome host.  So, I wish you the best of success and you are going to continue to change lives with this show.  So, thank you for having me.

Justin Marchegiani:   Thanks, Evan, you as well.


The entire contents of this website are based upon the opinions of Dr. Justin Marchegiani unless otherwise noted. Individual articles are based upon the opinions of the respective author, who retains copyright as marked. The information on this website is not intended to replace a one-on-one relationship with a qualified health care professional and is not intended as medical advice. It is intended as a sharing of knowledge and information from the research and experience of Dr. Justin and his community. Dr. Justin encourages you to make your own health care decisions based upon your research and in partnership with a qualified healthcare professional. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. Dr. Marchegiani’s products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. If you are pregnant, nursing, taking medication, or have a medical condition, consult your physician before using any products.