Heidi Schauster, author of “Nurture,” discusses raising confident kids who love food and themselves. She emphasizes the importance of creating a balanced and diverse relationship with food, promoting self-regulation, and being a support system for children. Consistency, positive reinforcement, and empowering kids to make their own choices are key strategies in fostering healthy eating habits.
Highlights
👩👧👦 Building a supportive and open relationship with children is crucial in addressing their struggles with food and body image. By focusing on their strengths and providing a safe space for communication, parents can help children develop confidence and a healthy relationship with food.
🍽️ Consistency is key when it comes to establishing healthy eating habits. Setting clear rules and expectations around food and consistently reinforcing them can create a sense of stability and routine for children.
🍗 Including protein in each meal is important for blood sugar stability and overall health. Teaching children the importance of balanced nutrition and the role of protein in providing sustained energy can help them make healthier food choices.
🥦 Encouraging children to try a diverse range of foods and flavors can expand their palate and promote a well-rounded diet. Creating a non-judgmental environment where children can explore new foods and express their preferences can foster a positive attitude towards eating.
🙋♀️ Empowering children to have agency and make choices around food can increase their confidence and independence. Allowing them to participate in meal planning, preparation, and decision-making cultivates a sense of responsibility and ownership over their food choices.
🙅♀️ Avoiding the Clean Plate Club mentality and instead teaching children to listen to their bodies' signals of fullness can prevent overeating and promote self-regulation. Encouraging mindful eating and helping children recognize their own hunger and satisfaction levels can contribute to a healthier relationship with food.
🌟 Positive reinforcement and praise can motivate children to adopt healthier eating habits. Celebrating their efforts and achievements, whether it's trying a new food or making a balanced meal, can boost their self-esteem and encourage continued positive behavior.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey guys, it's Dr. Justin Marchegiani. Welcome to the Beyond Wellness Radio podcast. Feel free and head over to justinhealth. com. We have all of our podcast transcriptions there, as well as video series on different health topics ranging from thyroid to hormones, ketogenic diets, and gluten. While you're there, you can also schedule a consult with myself, Dr.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: J, and or our colleagues and staff to help dive into any pressing health issues you really want to get to the root cause on. Again, if you enjoy the podcast, feel free and share the information with friends or family. and enjoy the show. Hey guys, Dr. Justin Marchegiani here. Welcome back to the podcast.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Today we have Heidi Schuster on the podcast. Right up. Heidi wrote an amazing book called Nurture, How to Raise Kids Who Love Food, Their Bodies, and Themselves. Today we'll be diving into this topic. Everything from helping your kids get on a better eating plan, making diet lifestyle changes, developing self confidence.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We'll be diving into this topic today with Heidi. Heidi, welcome to the podcast. How you doing?
Heidi Schauster: I'm well, Justin. Thank you so much for having me.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, absolutely. So you wrote a book, two books, writing a book is a labor of love as we know. So tell me about this journey. You were, what, um, you have a degree in psychology and are you also a dietician too?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Is that your background?
Heidi Schauster: Yeah. So I, um, actually have, um, my, you know, my background is in nutrition, primarily first and foremost, um, my master's is, um, in nutrition science. And, um, I also have a background in psychology. And so I have a lot of overlap in the work that I do with, um, mainly folks who have struggles with eating or their relationship with food and their bodies.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, how did you start this out? Were you working more in an academic setting or were you working with patients and making diet and lifestyle changes? How did you kind of get into the family life, kids, and that dynamic? How did that shift?
Heidi Schauster: My first, um, job after graduate school was actually at, um, Children's Hospital in Boston.
Heidi Schauster: I started, um, working on, I actually started working on inpatient psych there, working with eating disorders. Right from the get go, um, after doing an adolescent fellowship, I was really underqualified at that time, I think for the job, but I was like one of those like great students who, um, had, and I had great supervision at the time, wonderful supervisors and, um, I learned a lot.
Heidi Schauster: Uh, so started in inpatient work and then shifted to, um, adolescent medicine, um, also at, um, Children's Hospital in Boston. And then I went into private practice in the nineties, um, late nineties, um, and have been doing that ever since.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And so with kids, right? So you, you mentioned you have kids of your own.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Did you start kind of your journey down this path with your own struggles with your kids? I mean, obviously. You know, the issue with the nutrition world is a lot of dogma in regards to the food pyramid and a lot of special interest and lobbyists tend to capture what people have recommended or have been recommending for many decades and, you know, the idea that, you know, fat was bad in the 80s and 90s was a common thread and now we're understanding that healthy fats are good and a vegan and vegetarian was a trend for a while but then we're realizing, well, it's hard to get enough good protein or maybe it's easy to over, you know, eat too much carbs and processed vegetable oils.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So how did you make that evolution in regards to your food recommendations coming from like a, a mainstream science that's more food pyramid driven to kind of getting more evolved to your thinking about food and recommend.
Heidi Schauster: I, I'm so glad you asked that question. Um, because I, I really like, I always had issue from the very beginning with some of the Dogma in my field in some ways.
Heidi Schauster: Um, and, uh, you know, I had, when I was a college student, I heard a woman speak Ellen Satter, who talks a lot about child feeding and the sort of division of responsibility of the parent and the child and her words, she's, she was both a therapist and a nutritionist. And I, her words were just so, um, inspirational to me.
Heidi Schauster: And they really sent me in a different. Direction in terms of making recommendations around food. Um, and you know, where, like in some ways, like, yes, like what we eat absolutely matters and, you know, our cells literally, um, you know, Need are the food that we eat and our food is important but I do think that this like the science is still evolving and so Different and so many people all over the world thrive eating so many different kinds of cuisines That I think we have to approach food differently In general in our, in, in, in like in my field, I, I'm not always sure that we get it right in terms of being really particular about the types of food that one eats, it's really more about the, the like attitude at which you go into your.
Heidi Schauster: Really, you know, your meals and your relationship with food, if that makes sense.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. So I have two young boys, um, ages four to six and starting off, I mean, we give them very little screen time, very little, uh, indoctrination by commercials and those kinds of things. So it's interesting, right? Cause I have memories going through the grocery store or the department store and you'd like.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You know, a commercial would flash in your head. You'd be like, I want that, I want that. And I bring my kids around and they're just, there's none of that dogma or programming to tell them that they should have the Pringles commercial because you think of the, once you pop, you can't stop, right? You got these memories in your head from like the 80s and 90s being a kid and growing up in that.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And so, when you raise kids that don't have that dogma, there isn't that programming. But at the same standpoint, I give my kids, you know, we, we, you know, I have a firm belief being a functional medicine doctor, you know, we start our day with good proteins. You know, carbohydrates we consume are mainly gonna be fruits and vegetables.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We try not to consume any processed sugar or any inflammatory grains or those kind of things. So we start our day there because I find that blood sugar stability is really important. Avoiding a lot of colors and dyes and artificial flavors makes a big role. My kids will still choose, if they have a choice, sugar.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right. And so we just try to make the healthier substitutions, dark chocolate, you know, uh, healthy, you know, for instance, my son Hudson wanted something sweet this morning. I'm like, all right, we're going to put some blueberries and some coconut yogurt. And I'll put a little bit of collagen in there to get a little extra protein.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And we'll put some vanilla or, you know, vanilla powder or a little bit of cinnamon powder on there. So we try to make healthy choices and healthy substitutes. So when working with kids, you know, what's your like, What are you trying to get parents to start their day with? Like, what's a good breakfast for you?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: What's a good lunch? How do you segue into these changes with kids if they're already indoctrinated into like Cheerios and milk for breakfast or a Pop Tart? How do you make this change? Because my kids, they came out with me indoctrinating them, right? And so if they already come that way from the commercials, how do you handle that?
Heidi Schauster: Well, this, yeah, it's such a, That's such a loaded question, but I, you know, I guess I I'm coming at it from a, maybe a little bit of a different angle when I work with families. Cause I'm typically working with families when there's already a problem in the relationship with food or the dynamics around food and the family.
Heidi Schauster: Um, and, but like for the most part, I think the most important thing is that you take your values. As a family, in terms of how you want to feed your kids, and you do that in a, with diversity and balance, and then you kind of like, let it go, um, on some level around, um, what's going on at, you know, in, with the other families or the other, um, parts of the culture that might eat a little different than your own family culture, because, you know, The reality is that there's food everywhere.
Heidi Schauster: And I think it's so important that we like allow kids to eat diversity of food and that there's some, what have a neutral attitude about food, because I do find that when there's. Um, uh, like when there's a, uh, deprivation around certain things that maybe all their friends are eating, that those kids sometimes become more charged around those foods, if that makes sense.
Heidi Schauster: Um, so for example, like, uh, you know, I've had, I had, I have two 19 year olds, they're in college now, but, um, but yeah, they're twins. Um, but very different, um, super different fraternal twins, but you know, we, I never like made anything super forbidden. Uh, you know, we, like, you know, we had a garden and grew vegetables and like, I, I make a lot of things from scratch.
Heidi Schauster: That's like my, what I like to do. Um, you know, we, we made things together, we cook together. So food was like pretty central. In my family, but I try not to make anything super off limits because I find, I find in practice. And then it certainly was true in my family that like not having deprivation around like foods in general or food groups is just important because then kids will generally eat a well balanced diet.
Heidi Schauster: Whereas my. My kids, my kids, friends who came from sugar free households, for example, would come over and like hunt for that Halloween candy that my kids had left dusty on the shelf, you know, from earlier the week. So I do think there is something about, you know, like creating like the situation where your house has good balanced nutrition and good balanced variety in it.
Heidi Schauster: Um, but also not demonizing particular foods so that then kids like get more charge around them when they go to their friend's house and they see something that they don't usually get to eat. If that makes sense.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I mean, I think a lot of it too is you get kids, how I look at it as this, right? And those first three to 4, 000 meals, those first couple of years, I think it's the data shows by age five or six, your child's palates 80 to 90 percent solidified.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And so if you can get your child, you know. Pallet dialed into taking value, uh, and, and, um, satisfaction out of fruits, out of vegetables, out of healthier whole foods. Now they're much more likely to continue with that. And then once they're five, six, seven, eight, nine, once they're 10, they're going over friend's house.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Typically, you've got them feeling so good by eating a certain way that when they, they're off their diet, like my kids. are off their eating plan. It's like the complaint of tummy aches. They're bouncing off the wall. They don't feel good. And so usually there's a palpable kind of like line of like, Hey, you know, you're not doing the right thing and look at the results of how your body feels.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And there's usually that awareness like, Oh, your tummy's hurting today. Yeah. I mean, you ate all this cheese today, you know, or you, you know, had a lot of sugary, this pizza. So we got to get back on, you know, eating or healthier type of, um, a template. And for me, it's all whole foods. And I put an emphasis on good proteins and good fats because kids, that plays a major role in blood sugar stability.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Our brains are 70 to 80 percent fats and cholesterol. Protein and fat have a major stabilizing effect on blood sugar. And I find kids blood sugar going up and down, up throughout the day is what creates mood issues, focus issues, and energy issues. What kind of a template? That's it. Do you work on with kids?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Is it just a whole foods kind of template like fruits, vegetables, uh, protein sores? Like how do you help create that ideal breakfast or lunch when parents want that guidance? What does that look like?
Heidi Schauster: Yeah, no, it's a great question. I have to say that I don't work so much in a template. Orientation, um, because when I, given my expertise with eating disorders, um, and disordered eating, when I see a family, usually there's already an identified problem around food.
Heidi Schauster: And sometimes the problem is that the child is actually very obsessed and restrictive with their food, or they're, um, struggling with some, with using food as a soother, um, Um, food emotionally, um, to an extent where it's, um, you know, been really challenging for them. So, uh, most of what I do is sort of like try to bring the child back and the, or the teen back to a place of self regulation.
Heidi Schauster: And that's a little bit, I think what you were talking about when Kids notice that like eating certain things, give them a stomach ache, then, um, you know, then that's like a, a moment to sort of talk a little bit about, Oh, interesting. You have a stomach ache. Like, what might that be about? Um, what didn't feel good?
Heidi Schauster: Um, so that they're actually awareness always really. Trying to encourage kids to develop self regulation, which I think we have to be careful as the adults that we don't impose too much of what we know or what our own, um, views are about nutrition on them. We can certainly like encourage them to try a diversity of different things.
Heidi Schauster: And we want to like encourage that diversity, but we have to like stay in our own lane a little bit and let them try different things. And Notice how different things feel in their bodies too. And then it actually, I do think that they develop a more balanced relationship with food when they can like notice that like, Oh yeah, when I eat this way, it feels good when I eat this way, it doesn't feel good.
Heidi Schauster: As opposed to having the adult always say, don't eat that or do eat that. That makes sense. I'm like, often I'm working more with the family dynamics around food. Then like the actual meals themselves. Correct. And I'll
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: put, we'll put the link down below here. So if you guys are listening or watching the video here, we'll put the link to nurture down below and, and your previous book as well, which was, what was the name of your previous book?
Heidi Schauster: It was nourished. It was written more for an adult population. I
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: work with a lot of parents with food issues as well. The biggest thing I would say there's two or three big things out of the gate. Number one, foods are designed to be highly addicting. You look at some of the rat studies where the rat has a choice of doing cocaine or eating Oreo.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: They literally will choose the Oreo. And so the first thing I tell patients that I work with is when you have highly addicting, highly palatable food, it's hard for your kid to use their natural inclination of what feels good because these foods are designed to addict you. And so I tell parents out of the gate is create a good environment, like make sure this crap is not in the house, have healthier substitutes and healthy options, number one, and number two, role model it when you and your patients.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Husband sit down to eat. What are you eating in front of your kids? Do you eat with your kids? That plays a major role. 'cause I see a lot of kids, they'll eat alone or parents will eat their own thing. And one of the things we've really worked into is like, yeah, we're all gonna have almost the same meal.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We're all gonna have some vegetables together, we're all gonna have a protein source, and our meals are gonna look somewhat similar unless someone really has an aversion to a certain food. Then we, we make some substitutes. And for me with my kids, I always push the no thank you bite and it's not even about getting the nutrition is I want your palate to get exposed to broccoli or to spinach because I just want you to have that there.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So then over time, we can come back to that and build it because I've seen parents where they, the kids have been like, yeah, I'm not going to eat spinach. I'm not going to eat broccoli. And I see him at 10, 11, 12 and they literally just eat processed food and their kids never developed that palate. So thoughts on the meat.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: the role modeling just thoughts on the addictive nature of food. And it's hard to get kids to kids to make that decision when they're so addicted to those foods.
Heidi Schauster: Yeah. Well, the role modeling is really important. I, I agree with that so much, um, that we have to show our kids what it looks like to eat. Uh, you know, in a well balanced way, if you're, you're eating one way and your kids are eating something different, it doesn't make sense.
Heidi Schauster: It makes sense that everyone eats the same things. Granted, kids will have like, um, food jags at times, especially young kids. They sometimes get, can go through picky eating air, you know, kind of loses, especially if they're cautious kids. It's not really about the food. It's actually more about their temperament.
Heidi Schauster: Textures and sensory environments, like being a little bit like scary at first to try something new. So absolutely. I think my, my research intern and I found when we were working on this book, that a kid has to try something like 13 to 30 times before it can be accepted. Um, that said, we can't force kids to try stuff and we have to be careful not to do that so that it creates even more of an aversive.
Heidi Schauster: Um, experience around food, the kid, the key is to like encourage bites, like remind your kids that like you didn't used to like green beans when you were a kid either, but now you do because you've tried them so many times. Is this one of those meals where you might be willing to try something? And if your kid sits there with its arms closed and says, absolutely not, then you kind of have to pick your battles because you certainly don't want to create a power struggle around food.
Heidi Schauster: Um, that can sometimes be problematic. Um, yeah, I also noticed, go ahead, go ahead. No, I was just gonna say, I want to go back to what you said about the addictive nature of food. I do, you're right about like food marketers putting together the right combination of salt and sugar that like everybody wants to eat the whole bag.
Heidi Schauster: They definitely do that research. Um, that said, um, Food. We have to have a relationship with food. Like we don't have to have a relationship with cocaine. Like you mentioned, you know, but we have to have a relationship with food every day. And so it's like, I think it's more nuanced and challenging. Um, and that's why we have so many You know, eating disorders and disordered eating in our culture.
Heidi Schauster: I think there's, it's just hard to have a relationship with food when we have so many options and so many choices. Um, and like, I'm, I'm a big fan of get back to like, make, you know, make your own food and eat as simply as possible. That said, it's hard to do that when you have busy families and there's so many convenience options that like.
Heidi Schauster: Allow everyone to at least sit down and eat together, which is also valuable. So I just have a lot of compassion for parents trying to navigate this.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I saw a study looking at kids academics, for instance, and it was a study. I forget what journal was university of Michigan, but they were talking about kids, academics and performance in school.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And this is obviously correlation over causation, but the number one correlation of kids doing well in school academically. It was actually having a family dinner together. Like that was one of the strongest corollary factors, not homework, not studying, but a family dinner.
Heidi Schauster: Absolutely. And that's like both the food, like sell it, like, like, like making food and connection and community connected is so important.
Heidi Schauster: And it's also like, just, I think from a mental health standpoint, having time to sit down and talk. And be together as a family and nourish and care for each other with this good food. So valuable. Absolutely.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, absolutely. Now, when I work with my kids, I work with a lot of patients that are younger as well.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I take more of a little hard line approach. I mean, I have thousands of patients of experience. So I try lots of different approaches, read lots of resources. And you got to look at your child's personality and see what works. I find one thing you may or may not agree. I find a lot of mistakes. Parents make this day and age is they try to be their kids.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: They try to give their kid what they want, not what they need. So, I'm a firm believer, I'm the parent. This is what you need. I know what's best. We're not gonna go down the road of what the food industry is gonna market you and what cool character that you see on TV or your iPad. We're gonna, we're gonna make a different approach.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Also, I know kids really can't get full or satiated on carbohydrate. So, I always try to have a protein at each meal. What's your thought process of having, at least with kids, having some kind of a protein or something that's a little bit more solid? of a substance at each meal. I mean, obviously you can add in fruit and carbs and all that stuff, you know, based on your kids activity level and all that.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: But what's your take on that? I think that component is really important when I see clinically.
Heidi Schauster: Oh yeah, no, I think it's important too. I used to have like a, um, an experience when my daughter, one of my daughters would come home from school and she's so such an active person and like she would be like, I can't focus on my homework and I'm like snack and like she just needed a snack and then she'd settle down and get her homework done.
Heidi Schauster: Done. Um, but I do agree that like, like, and I'm a big fan. I talk about blood sugar, like balance all the time with my adult clients that like having some carb with protein, ideally some carb with protein and fat. Is like what's going to provide sustained energy for most people that said, you have to, it's hard to sort of like, I don't want necessarily adults to teach that to little kids.
Heidi Schauster: Cause then they're like thinking about food too much and not feeling it so much in their bodies. I really want little kids to like feel it in their bodies more. But I think as an adult, what we can do is we can put out for snacks, those options that we know are going to give them some more sustained energy.
Heidi Schauster: And then eventually they like gravitate towards that.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, I have my kids totally brainwashed. I mean, we're at a party, we're at a party and we were some parents and it was really funny. My kids got their meal. So we had like a cauliflower pizza. We loaded up with some good chicken on there. And, and, um, One of my good friends, they brought their kid at the table and they let their son eat their dessert first.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And my son stood up and lectured him and said, he went to the parents and said, at the time he's four years old. He's like, what are you doing? Letting your son eat your dessert first. He's going to spoil his appetite and not eat the rest of his meal. And I'm like, Oh, but I was just like sitting there. I was embarrassed.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: But at the same time, I'm like, yes, good job. Yeah.
Heidi Schauster: Yeah. Well, no, I, I mean, I, I think it's great that he's like, he's got a sense of like eating in a balanced way. Um, you know, I, I, you know, it's so funny. Like I used to put like dessert foods and that like, it might just be fruit or something like that. Um, it could be something that we bake together.
Heidi Schauster: On the table with dinner. Cause I didn't want them to be charged foods. If that makes sense. Just given my, my work with, can you explain that? Can you explain that? I wanted, like, I didn't want, like, I think our culture makes like candy out to be like treat foods. Yep. Um, and like, you know, for example, people would like give their kids.
Heidi Schauster: Treats when they potty train them, I think that's like kind of dammit, like dangerous because then those food become really charged and the kids want them even more because they're associated with reward. So I've always made like treat foods. I don't even like to use that terminology, but I've always made things like, um, you know, cookies that we bake together.
Heidi Schauster: Or fruit or whatever. I've made it neutral and just kind of put it on the table. And my kids would eat a well balanced diet, no matter what. Um, but that doesn't work for every family, especially if sugary foods are already pretty charred.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That would not, my kids would just eat that. We
Heidi Schauster: had like a pretty low, we had, we were a really low media family, so maybe it worked well for us.
Heidi Schauster: Um, but, um, but it doesn't always work for every family, but I do think like making sure. That, um, we provide balanced nutrition and, you know, for kids is important. Believe me. Um, it's just that like, you have to kind of know your kids and their temperament in terms of how you deal with. Like foods that in our culture we call treats.
Heidi Schauster: Oh, yeah. I mean, I'm a huge fan of the You call them treats. I can't even do it without like doing the little Yeah, yeah. Cause I just don't even want those foods to Like, like there's lots of foods that taste delicious. Um, but unfortunately, like the adults are like really worked up about treat foods and so that like translates to the kids.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, the issue I have with treats, I mean, I think it's It's, it's fine to have something that they enjoy that's special, that's not an all the time thing. The issue I have is just the crap that's in it, the dyes, the color, the high fructose corn syrup, the pesticides, the GMOs, the fact that, you know, the, the nutritive content is incredibly low too.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So. We try to have healthy substitutes. I love the Unreal brand because it's like clean sugar, clean dark chocolate. Maybe you can get the Lily's brand that has a little bit of stevia sweetened in there. Or the peanut butter cups that have a little bit of MCT oil. So you can get things that have a much higher nutritive value.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It's like, Oh my gosh, like five ingredients, not like, Five lines. And so what we would do at Halloween, kids would go trick or treating, whatever. And then we would just swap the bag up. We'd have a bag with some healthier stuff in it and we'd just swap it out. The kids wouldn't even know, but
Heidi Schauster: I'm like, I was always a big fan of better ingredients and food.
Heidi Schauster: You know, I have a farm. I cook a lot of things from scratch. I'm like a big fan of that. And so, That said, I have that privilege to be able to do that in my household. And, um, I know that not every family has the ability to do that, or maybe can even afford some of the foods that unfortunately are like more expensive because they're healthier.
Heidi Schauster: Um, so I, you know, I want to have like compassion for those that. Are navigating situations where there maybe isn't quite as much privilege and quite as much food available. That's good. But absolutely. I'm right where they're with you. And I wish that like we had some of the European standards for our food supply.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, no, for sure. Like, so we left one of the big Halloween bags that we had like way in the top shelf. And my wife came down one morning at six 30, we heard something and it was literally A stepper stool on top of another stool. And then the other kid was on top of that. Literally like they're two stools stacked up and he's up there grabbing it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And the other one, you know, he's three at the time is holding the stool down below. We're like, Oh my gosh, these kids sought out this stuff. Um, and so we had a, we, we got rid of that. So what we would do is we get all the candy, we package it up in little Ziploc bags. And when the mailman came or the Amazon driver came or the trash guy came, we would give them a nice little treat.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And they loved it because we did it for the whole month from like Halloween to Thanksgiving. And they were just so looking forward to giving these treats away and making everyone smile. And then we just subbed in some of the healthier stuff and they don't know the difference. And, but you know, you go to the five line items versus the, You know, the soybean oil and the, you know, the hydrolyzed, you know, castor oil, whatever, just the trans fats and all the junky processed fats too.
Heidi Schauster: Yeah. No, I, I hear, I totally understand why you would do that. And I like that you made it into a game and kept it light. Cause I think that's the most important thing with kids is that we do want to teach them good food habits, but we want to kind of keep it light. Um, because we don't want it to become something that they feel anxious about.
Heidi Schauster: Um, and that's what I see in my practice with eating disorders is that kids often will develop a lot of anxiety about food and like worry about what they're putting in their bodies to the extent that it actually becomes problematic. So I'm always wanting to toe that line between like creating, you know, good habits and my kids, uh, and my family.
Heidi Schauster: And also like preventing it from becoming stressful and like a lot of anxiety around that food.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Correct. Have you, um, read any of Julia Ross's books like the diet cure or the mood cure at all?
Heidi Schauster: I have not, but, um, tell me more.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, essentially she uses a lot of amino acids to treat mood disorder issues, especially eating disorders as well.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Because it's like the chicken or the egg, right? They eat poorly, they don't get enough nutrients. The brain starts to not have the raw material it needs. You start to, you know, develop some kind of a dysphoria, right? You see an 80 pound skeleton in the mirror and you see yourself as old. Overweight.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: There's obviously dysphoria happening. And so, how do we fix that? Right? Obviously, there's mindset stuff. There's therapy. There's different cognitive behavioral things we can do. Food strategies. But, her thinking is, we gotta nourish that brain. And she would use amino acids and different nutrients to help feed that brain.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And then, obviously, the brain's function would improve because it has the physiological biochemical building blocks to function better. Well, and that's
Heidi Schauster: how we want to treat eating disorders first and foremost, whether we do it in an outpatient setting or whether we, you know, they're not able to do it on an outpatient basis and they do need to go into some kind of a treatment program that the key is to re nourish.
Heidi Schauster: First, no matter where someone's at and, you know, I want to just mention to that, like eating disorders aren't necessarily going to show up in a body either as like some bodies lose weight easier than others, but restrictive. Um, food pattern is the problem and that's what we want to, like, obviously, like, you know, we want someone to be improving their, their nutrition.
Heidi Schauster: And absolutely. I can imagine that like giving people good food. That's like what, like, that's the first order business. And then there's working on the psychology around. Food, because often what happens with someone with an eating disorder, um, is that there's some underlying mood and other, your trauma or some other kind of challenges underneath it.
Heidi Schauster: Um, it's not always about food first and foremost, but yeah, somebody hasn't been eating well, giving their brain and their body nutrition is so helpful because maybe they were depressed before they started the eating disorder, but that starving brain. Definitely increase their depression.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: There's a control element of having a lack of control in your life.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey, this is the one thing I can control three times a day. Let's over control this, or there's some sexual trauma. And I'm going to, I'm going to use that extra fat to kind of protect me, use it as a shield, right? There's definitely those elements too.
Heidi Schauster: Yeah. They're, I mean, eating disorders are often a control strategy.
Heidi Schauster: Um, and, um, whether someone's using food, um, to like in a restrictive way or Um, or eating beyond comfortable fullness regularly. Both of those can be, can show that there's some kind of dysregulation in the, in the individual. Dr.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Justin Marchegiani Yeah. Absolutely. And I've also, I try to get my patients to really shift their thinking about what food is.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think the calorie model has been very detrimental to people in regards to thinking what food is. If you think of calories as all calories are created equal, just like you put gas in your gas tank, it just gets burnt up, it gets combusted, it creates energy, just kind of like a calorie. The difference is, when you put gasoline in your car, that car engine does not take that gasoline and re create its bumper or hydraulic system or interior off the nutrients in it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: But our body does that, it's actually, okay, great, you have a caloric benefit, you have heat, you have metabolic input and impact from that food, but also you're using those nutrients and amino acids to rebuild. your hair, your skin, your nails, your livers. So there's a raw material aspect. And, you know, when I try to tell my young kids, it's like, you know, you can't make chicken salad out of rotten chicken.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It doesn't work that way. You can't make chicken salad out of chicken poop. There has to be a quality in the raw material to give you quality ingredients, allow you to make quality food, rotten ingredients, rotten food. So let's think about what kind of Skin and hair and nails and building blocks. We want to put in our body by putting good healthy raw material at first Yeah,
Heidi Schauster: no, I couldn't agree with you more
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And so what are some of the strategies when you have someone you're dealing with right you try not to charge these foods What are some two or three things?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Parents at home if they're starting to see some of these signs outside of bring them to an expert, right? Get that counseling get that support, but what are some things at home that parents could start to implement?
Heidi Schauster: Well, um, if you're concerned that your kid has a problem, is that what you're asking? Yeah,
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: or you're concerned, maybe you're early, early stages, you know, of course, we'll get some kind of a professional evaluation.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That's important. Um, or we're trying to be more preventative, but we want our kids to be healthy. What are a couple of Preventative and or early stage options to kind of help parents out.
Heidi Schauster: No, it's a great question. Um, I would say like the most important thing that you can do if you suspect you have a kid whose relationship with food and maybe their bodies is, um, not, um, you know, struggling a little bit is to just be a support.
Heidi Schauster: Like just be available. Um, and ultimately see your kid as a whole person. They might be struggling a little bit with their body. Maybe they're going through a growth spurt or that awkward middle school phase. And they're like, not feeling as good in their bodies because it feels kind of awkward and unusual.
Heidi Schauster: Um, but don't make it about the body. Just like check in with your kid and, um, You know, ask them how they're doing. Um, ask, you know, orient yourself and your kid around their strengths, uh, as a whole human being, um, don't make it about the body. Cause it often, it's not really about the body. It's about like, okay, I'm struggling a little bit with my peer group at school and I want to fit in and it must be because my body doesn't look perfect.
Heidi Schauster: But the reality is it's really about that struggle with the peer group. And so the more available you can be as a parent. Um, to be a sounding board for them to talk to or to suggest maybe like there are some other wonderful adults in their life who they could talk to if they're feeling stressed is excellent because then they're less likely to use food and the body as like an embodiment of their struggles.
Heidi Schauster: That makes sense. Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, absolutely. And when I'm looking at, like, so how do you try to create new behaviors with kiddos? I mean, for my kids, for instance, they respond to incentives like crazy, right? You have the carrot of the stick. So I'm a much bigger fan of always trying to dangle the carrot. I think that's really helpful.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We have a, a chore chart in our house where kids, if they make their bed in the morning, if they turn off their light, if they do these things, they get to put a heart. Right. And at the end of the week, we add it up and we give them, I think, like, 25 cents per heart or something like that. And so they do all these different things.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And part of it is, you know, do we at least have a bite of vegetables at our meals, right? Are we at least eating, you know, our palm worth of protein, right? So we try to provide some incentives for them. And we give them some high quality treats that I think are, you know, are good, but they love it. And, um, so we have some good incentives set up for our kids.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Our kids are very incentive rewarded and much rather incentive than punish. What's your take on that? And what kind of food is it? Incentives or things do you implement or you've seen implemented that work? Well, your experience.
Heidi Schauster: Well, I like your, I like your, um, your plan of like creating agency for the kids.
Heidi Schauster: My kids started to do their laundry when they were nine, you know, and that, you know, I mean, some of it was out of necessity, um, because we were, it was also like, they were pretty capable. And boy, did they feel great about the fact that they could learn how to do that themselves. Um, so I do think there is something about creating agency with kids.
Heidi Schauster: That's really, really important. Um, and that's exactly what you're saying. Um, I think like, like it's so important as kids get a little older and you know, your kids. The best. I, and that's what I always strive to do is just empower parents. Like, you know, your children the best and you know, what works for them the best.
Heidi Schauster: Um, and then just be consistent, right? Cause that
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: is the key. That is the key because dealing with the kid, yeah.
Heidi Schauster: With like each sibling to like, you can't let one sibling get away with. Um, something that the other one doesn't, or you can't let, you can't, this is, this, I hear this so much in my adult clients, you can't let one of your siblings eat more than the other, um, or eat differently than the other.
Heidi Schauster: Like if ever, if there's a rule in the house that everyone is set up around, um, Um, like let's say sugary foods that you've decided in your house that you've got like some guidelines and that works well for some houses. Everyone has to abide by it, including the parents, because if you say, Oh, you can't eat this stuff.
Heidi Schauster: And then the parents are like sneaking it at night and they see catch you doing that. That's not okay. So I think the consistency is important. Giving kids like a sense of agency is really important. Um, and generally like Um, doing things together as a family, as a, like a reward system, because that time together, I think is so critical.
Heidi Schauster: And like, obviously we're all busy and we all, you know, I, you know, I was a single parent for many of my years of raising my kids. So I totally know what that's like, but the more you like create some time with your kids, um, Um, and really like, let that be precious. I think that helps on so many different levels.
Heidi Schauster: So when you want them to change a behavior, when you notice that something's not working in your household and you want them to change a behavior about something, then like, they're not going to question it because there's respect and like mutual, like, Um, understanding between the family. Yeah, does that make sense?
Heidi Schauster: Yeah, I agree about being a friend with your kid. Like you said before, I agree with you. Like we're not supposed to be our kids friends. We are supposed to give them some guidance. Um, but it's, it's like creating respectful dialogue around as they get older.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I think a parent's relationship changes with their kids once they're an adult and they are fully.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Responsible for themselves or lives or providing an income there, they're balancing their budget and taking care of themselves. Then you kind of go more into a mentor kind of friendship kind of role because you've done your job, right? Like you passed the baton off. Now you're going to do that for your kids, right?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So there's a shift that happens there. And also you talk about raising confident kids. And I feel like you can, you can fill your kids with hot air or bluster, fake confidence, I call it. But when my kids do their church art, and they've, they've made their bed, they turn out the lights, they fed the dog in the morning, they got dressed, Hey, you did a great job taking accountable, taking accountability for the, you know, the responsibilities you had.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Great job. There's a sense of they get the satisfaction and confidence from that. And then they're like, what else can I do? I want a second heart. Well, maybe we can go clean the litter box. How about that? And so it just, it creates this level. of confidence because they're doing things that are actually creating that self esteem.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: What's your thoughts on that?
Heidi Schauster: Um, I think anything that creates self esteem, like, and you can see that create self esteem is working. It sounds like it's working in your family.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: What are strategies that you see in practice that a parent could implement? Outside of just the example that I gave,
Heidi Schauster: well, one of the things that I do, um, with some families where like mealtime has been challenging.
Heidi Schauster: Like, let's say the mom has gotten into a short order cook situation where she's cooking like three different meals for, yeah, that's so hard. Um, and you know, if, if you have like one person who really wants to be vegetarian in the family, you might have to have a different option for them and you want to respect their their choices, but ultimately everyone should eat the same meals.
Heidi Schauster: Um, so one of the things that I've implemented when like families have like kids who are really like whining and complaining about the food or not eating so well is a system where everyone gets to pick Their favorite meal, obviously within these like particular guidelines, but everyone gets to like kind of decide what their meal night is.
Heidi Schauster: Um, and the kids love that because if, when, what, if Wednesday is their meal night, then they're going to be not only able to have their favorite foods on the plate, but they might actually get more involved in the preparation and the setting the table and things like that. Um, and then. If like, they don't like what everybody's eating on Thursday night, for example, when it's another sibling's meal night, then they're not going to complain so much because they know their meal night is coming up.
Heidi Schauster: So that can be really helpful in terms of like broadening the palette of different kids in the household when like, there's a lot of picky eaters and maybe the pickiness has been catered to for a while. Yep. That can be super helpful. And that way, like everybody has a night. Um, and everybody like gets involved in meal planning too, a little bit too.
Heidi Schauster: Like everybody sits down on Sunday and says, okay, what are we going to make this week? Um, and that can be lovely if, uh, if it works for some families.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I agree. I think you talked about earlier, the consistency element is so important because kids will push, right? They will, they will dig their, dig their heels in and push back.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And if they see you retreating from the initial boundary or the initial rule that you put forward, then all those repetitions that you put in before that start to go by the wayside. And so I think the, The consistency that you said earlier is such an important piece. Can you speak more to that?
Heidi Schauster: Yeah, I think, um, well, I mean, consistency is like kind of what kids need in all things, right?
Heidi Schauster: Um, it's very grounding. Like, you know, like it's, it's even grounding for like little, little ones to have some routine, um, and food can be some of that. Like it can be a bit of an anchor. To know that like, okay, on Monday we always make soup or on Tuesday we have like, you know, this is what we usually have.
Heidi Schauster: Um, maybe, you know, or like we get to pick a new, you know, Wednesday is the day we like all try a new vegetable or whatever. Like you, there's something about creating routine and structure that's just helpful for kids. And you can certainly do that around food and around lots of things. Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And I think a lot of times pre framing out, if you know you have an issue with a certain behavioral aspect of food or at the, at the dinner table, it's like, Hey guys, you know, it's really important.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We're eating this meal today. We're going to, you know, use our indoor voices and we're not going to whine at the table. If we have an issue, you know, this is the consequence, right? You frame it out ahead of time. You don't, you don't get into the moment and give warnings after the fact you try to pre frame it out.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That way everyone's. Thinking about what the right behavior, what the appropriate behavior is. So pre framing, I think it'd be a really important thing to do.
Heidi Schauster: Yeah. And I, I write about that in my book that like, it's so important for us to be well regulated parents so that we can treat, teach our kids to be regulated as well, but that's hard to do, like, especially in the heat of the moment.
Heidi Schauster: And I have a lot of compassion, um, you know, for parents around this one too, because it's easier said than done, but like the more chill we can be, Almost everything. The more we can kind of keep it light. Um, and you know, take a time out if we need to, in order to come back and keep it light, the better for everyone.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: My biggest struggle as a parent, I do not do whining. Like we do not whine in my house. If whatever you want to say, whatever you whine about, You can take that into your big boy or big girl voice and just say it like a big boy, big girl. I'm totally open to hearing it. But as soon as we go into that whining tone, no, no, no.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You need to go, you self regulate, couple of breaths, come back, and then we can try again. But I, I do not do whining. What's your take?
Heidi Schauster: Yeah, well, I think, I like what you said that you take a break and you take a couple of breaths because I think if you can teach kids to slow down, like we all need that. We all need that as adults.
Heidi Schauster: Like if we can slow down. Then we can teach kids to slow down and like, just take a moment and like, what's really going on here. Cause usually if somebody's whining, they're unhappy about something. And so it gives them a moment to even be able to express or think about perhaps what, what's really going on.
Heidi Schauster: And that's something, maybe that's a little bit more sophisticated, um, more for like a, an older kid, but in general, like slowing down doesn't hurt any of us.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right. It's like, Hey, you have a need, right? I'm trying to help you meet your needs in a way that's sustainable. It's constructive, right? And so we start and get those habits early on.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So then as we go into adults, right, as kids grow into adults, they're able to meet their needs much better.
Heidi Schauster: Yeah. And that's like kind of what, um, a lot of people who struggle with disordered eating struggle with is being able to know what their needs are. And to be able to put them out there bravely and ask for what they need.
Heidi Schauster: Um, that's like, that is often the, like a core issue, um, in people who struggle with food and it makes sense, right? Because food is associated with care and it has been associated with care from like our first days as on this planet. So it makes sense that like, when we struggle around caring for ourself and recognizing and asking for what we need, then we might struggle with food and our relationship with food.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. And what's your feedback with giving kids, um, positive feedback or praise after they, I don't know, they did a great job eating that broccoli today. You're such a great eater. You did amazing. You're part of that clean plate club or whatever. Like, what's your take around feedback or positive feedback in regards to eating food?
Heidi Schauster: Yeah, I'm not a clean plate club fan, actually. I'm, I really want to teach kids to self regulate and not have someone outside of their bodies tell them how much is enough.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So how would you do it? How would you integrate kind of your philosophy into some kind of positive praise when it comes to food?
Heidi Schauster: Yeah, I would like, um, I would want to, um, Encourage like a base left some things on the plate, for example, um, I would say how, you know, are you, are you all done?
Heidi Schauster: Like, or is your body telling you that you're all done with the meal? Um, and then they get to say yes or no. Um, uh, so I would be more inclined to point out. Um, for those kids who are old enough to maybe do that observation, like, like what, like, what does that feel like? Oh, this is, you know, I'm actually really full.
Heidi Schauster: Like, what does that feel like in your body? How do you know you're full? Um, right. How do you feel that? Um, so I'm like a little bit more inclined not to like have people clean their plates, but to sort of like self regulate, uh, and, and determine like when they've had enough. Um, which is such a skill that, like, I think kids are maybe losing a little bit when we, like, we plate and insist that they finish everything on their plate.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I think it's good. Like, I tell my kids when we serve a meal up, like, I want them, I put a reasonable amount of food there, and I want them to, I know that they'll be able to finish. It's a reasonable amount, and then typically they're going to have seconds, which is fine. My kids are notorious for putting way too much.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And it goes to waste. And so I'm always like, all right, we're going to do, you know, a palm or a fist worth of, you know, maybe a palm worth of protein, maybe a fist worth of vegetables, maybe a palm worth of starch, like a reasonable amount based on kind of how big they are. And then I much rather have a seconds and that's fine.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And that way we don't overdo it because the kids put too much on there and then you're putting pressure to be in the clean play club. And then you could have some overeating issues on that side too.
Heidi Schauster: Yeah, I wouldn't, yeah, I wouldn't encourage that. That sounds really reasonable. What I, um, Uh, really, uh, recommend is that when kids get old enough to, and I don't, it, you have to know your kid and they're like just their dexterity, but to let them play them for themselves eventually.
Heidi Schauster: Um, and then when they do, you do see them maybe like over plating. Like beyond, like beyond their typical fullness, then you might like point that out and say, Oh, I noticed that you like tend to give yourself, um, a lot more than like what your body is comfortable for. Like, how did you know when to stop?
Heidi Schauster: You might like even have that dialogue. Let's maybe not waste so much and like start with a smaller portion first. Um, but like, that's more about food waste than it is about self regulation. Um, but that's that step of self regulation I think is really important.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I'm also a huge fan. I talk to a lot of parents about this too, especially if you start to see a lot of kids overeating.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: The big thing I find is one, make sure kids are consuming their food in a reasonable amount of time. If kids are just gobbling food down so fast, their brain has no chance to say, Hey, you're full. And so you can work on the chewing components. Um, chewing your food up to, you know, a reasonable amount. I tell patients like oatmeal like consistency is a pretty good rule of thumb.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh, if not, Hey, we're going to eat a reasonable amount. Maybe we take a five, 10 minute break, let your brain catch up. And then it's amazing. You get people five or 10 minutes between their first serving. They tend to eat a little bit less because their brain's finally catching up with what went down. What do you think about the timing, the rush eating, and maybe a little break in between first and seconds.
Heidi Schauster: I think, um, modeling slow eating is good for all of us
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: present. You know, I know
Heidi Schauster: that like, I know I got into a habit, even myself of eating super fast when I had twin babies and I was like, yeah, this is my only chance. Oh yeah. Just shovel it in. Um, And I like, you know, I, so I had to like almost unlearn that habit and I still sometimes struggle with it when I'm feeling rushed to just like shovel it in.
Heidi Schauster: And then you're not even like really tasting and enjoying your food. So like, I think slowing down role modeling, slowing down, it's can never be. Um, a problem. Dr. Justin Marchegiani
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And I think, I just try to tell my patients, try to make eating like a meditation where like instead of focusing on the breath, you're focused on each chew and the flavor and you can really make it a parasympathetic kind of meditative experience where you're really relaxing.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And we know that aids in digestion and absorption and good motility, so there's a lot of good benefits there.
Heidi Schauster: Yeah. And our, and food like, you know, stimulates the vagus nerve as we're eating, which is why sometimes people use food to soothe when they're feeling really dysregulated and stressed. And so I, I think like I have compassion for my clients who eat, um, to soothe, because it makes sense.
Heidi Schauster: It's a strategy and it works. So, you know, as we're trying to work on their eating habits, we're also hopefully. encouraging them to adopt some other self soothing habits, other ways to like learn how to work with their nervous system. Dr. Justin Marchegiani
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent, Heidi. Well, really good. We're going to put your link for your book here, Nurture, How to Raise Kids Who Love Food, Their Bodies, and Themselves.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We got the links down below for Heidi's website. If you want to support her and get that book, please do so. Heidi, anything else you want to leave the listeners with?
Heidi Schauster: Oh, you know, I, I don't know. I mean, I, I have had a lot of articles. If people are interested in this topic, I write nourishing words on substack.
Heidi Schauster: Um, so I have a regular like bi weekly newsletter that like, it's all about nourishing ourselves and are in the next generation with care basically. So, um, you can cert, I have lots of different topics. Folks are still interested in this topic and want to read more.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That's great. And that's a nourishing word.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: com and the substack is it just substack. com slash a nourishing word.
Heidi Schauster: That's my website. A nourishing word. com. But, um, but if, you know, substack has, uh, lots of different newsletters and newsletter platform. Um, and mine is nourishing words.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Nourishing words. Great. Awesome. All right. How do you, anything else you want to leave the listeners with?
Heidi Schauster: No, I'm just so grateful to be here and have this conversation with you, Dr. J. Like, this is like important stuff. Like we want our kids and our families to have good relationships with food and with their bodies too. Like, I think we didn't talk so much about that, but like, you know, body image is a, is a thing in our culture.
Heidi Schauster: We have a very image driven culture. Culture in terms of our media. So I think the more we can encourage kids to look, um, at their whole selves and appreciate, um, the qualities in them that are like, are about them as a whole unique, interesting person. Uh, I think that's, that's great. That's what I'm trying to do here.
Heidi Schauster: So I'm happy to be here. Thanks for having me.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That's great. And we went over a lot of stuff and if parents are listening and they're like, what, what do I do? Is there just one action item you could give the listener with like, just do this one thing and this will give you a good kind of a start.
Heidi Schauster: I would say take a deep breath and like relax and know that like actually children do really well.
Heidi Schauster: Um, at self regulation, if we give them just a little bit of guidance. So I think like the anxiety that we feel as a parent, um, can translate to our kids. And I think the most important thing for us to do is just relax, know that you've like, you've got this and your kid will naturally gravitate towards a reasonable, healthy diet.
Heidi Schauster: As long as you have that nice foundation in your household. And, um, yeah, I think we can probably relax more than we think.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Awesome. Well, thanks so much, Heidi. Really appreciate you coming on today's podcast.
Heidi Schauster: Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it. It's a good conversation.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. Thank you.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Good luck
Heidi Schauster: with your boys.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Thank you so much. I appreciate it.
Heidi Schauster: So enjoy every minute.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Thank you. I'll say goodbye right after we end stream.
Heidi Schauster: Bye bye.
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