This podcast discusses the potential side effects of probiotics, focusing on how imbalances and histamine levels in the gut can lead to probiotic intolerance.
Highlights
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey guys, it's Dr. Justin Marchegiani. Welcome to the Beyond Wellness Radio podcast. Feel free and head over to justinhealth. com. We have all of our podcast transcriptions there, as well as video series on different health topics ranging from thyroid to hormones, ketogenic diets, and gluten. While you're there, you can also schedule a consult with myself, Dr.
J, and or our colleagues and staff to help dive into any pressing health issues you really want to get to the root cause on. Again, if you enjoy the podcast, feel free and share the information with friends or family. Dr. Justin Marchegiani And we are live, it's Dr. J in the house with Rob Edwards from HeritageHealth.
life. We're excited to chat on today's podcast. We're gonna be talking about when good bacteria goes bad, while you may be having probiotic intolerance or probiotic side effects. We're gonna dive into this topic. You know, having, um. I work with patients, 5, 000 plus patients over the last 15 years. Every now and then you see this and it's, it's a real thing.
And so we're going to dive into what's happening under the hood physiologically and biochemically that's driving this and what you can do about it. And what does it mean? What is it telling you? Rob, welcome to the podcast, man. How you doing?
Rob Edwards: Yeah. Good. Thanks for having me again. It's been, uh, it's been a while.
It's been like, what about a month and a half, two months, been working the fields of, uh, you know, helping out people get healthy. And so we're, uh, I'm excited to dive into this, talk about some of the common things that go on with that. And, uh, you know, I think one of the things to notice that it's always about balance inside of the body.
And so, um, let's hop into this conversation. I'll let you lead the way, man. Dr. Justin
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Marchegiani Absolutely. So, out of the gate, we have beneficial bacteria. These are probiotics, right? These are gonna be your bifidobacter, your lactobacillus, your different subspecies, lactobacillus acidophilus, lassobacillus casei, plantarum, bifidobacterium, bifidobacterium longus, etc.,
brevis, right, lactus, infantis, so you get your different. Probiotic species, your Bifido, your Lacto, and then you'll have some even your spore based strains like your uh, Bacillus like Conformis, and then you'll even have like your kind of beneficial yeast that kind of get lumped in like a Saccharomyces boulardii.
These are your big kind of three beneficial bacteria. Probiotic Bifido. Spore base, right? Your bacillus and then your saccharomyces. Those, what we call the big three probiotics. And when we deal with any type of gut issue, most people due to excess antibiotics exposure in the past when you were younger or just having, you know, common cold issues with most cold issues are viral and you're given antibiotics doesn't really help, right?
You can go, you can go wrap your head around that one. Also, we have exposure to conventional food like Roundup glyphosate that's originally padded in as an anti And so, if you're getting exposure to lots of glyphosate in conventional food, that can definitely negatively impact the gut bacteria balance.
And then, obviously, lots of acellular processed grains, processed flour, processed high fructose corn syrup is gonna feed and tend to cause a lot of the dysbiotic bad bacteria to flourish. The bad bacteria may be in the camps of like Proteus and Morganella. Pseudomonas, Citrobacter, Klebsiella. These are all dysbiotic bacteria.
We all have them, but it's really when those levels get overgrown, that's where they become problematic. And these bacteria can produce things like histamine. They can produce, um, lipopolysaccharides or endotoxins. They can actually be stressful on the body. And a lot of times when people have issues with beneficial bacteria, it's because the histamine bucket in that patient is already very high because bad bacteria really increase that histamine.
And then if you add in a beneficial probiotic or like a fermented food, that's going to be adding more to that histamine bucket. So, it's not the fact that the probiotics the issue, it's that your histamine bucket a lot of times can be already full.
Rob Edwards: Dr. Justin Marchegiani Yeah. And histamine is like a big, big deal.
Other sort of like probiotic, probiotic food, right? So, like the sauerkraut or the kimchi, kombucha, kefir, those are also can cause some, some issues with that as well. But yeah, it's, it's um, it's, you know, the gut is oftentimes a tricky, uh, a tricky subject for, for a lot of people as we kind of try to help those things out.
Prevalently, people think I just take a probiotic and I'm going to be good to go.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: But,
Rob Edwards: you know, you follow down the pathway of the gut, like, what do we look at first, second, third, fourth, you know, depending on, on what's going on and sometimes people can miss things with gut health. And so that, that's another big, big piece of it.
Like for example, if you got indigestion consistently, maybe it's tearing up your, your, uh, your, your pipeways. And if we have that inflammation there, we need to take care of that first and foremost before we start looking down further into the gut.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Now, here's the deal. Most people can benefit. Like let's say you have a little bit of like tummy upset or your gut feels a little bit inflamed.
Probiotics can be very naturally anti inflammatory. I'd much rather have someone like from like an acute palliative perspective using probiotics to kind of help with inflammation than taking NSAIDs or taking acid blockers because those medications are actually going to impact gut lining. liver health, and acid blockers are gonna impact digestion and absorption.
So, if we're doing things acutely, I I much rather have people use probiotics because they can help with inflammation, but if you're having side effects, what does that mean? I want people to think like, one step ahead of what that actually means, and then what can you do about it. Once you understand the physiology and the biochemistry, symptoms go downstream from physiology and biochemistry.
When things aren't functioning optimally with the biochem and the physiology, then we have side effects. with bloating, acid reflux, constipation, motility, soft stools, malabsorption, all those things spiral from that.
Rob Edwards: And even like the DAO, like in the Krip cycle, so if you have a breakdown in the gut lining, you're not producing enough DAO, for example, that, that's what sort of, um, digest, let's say histamines, right?
That could be another issue to potentially look into in terms of the gut and its function, its ability to, uh, to break down histamines properly. And so the fermented foods is going to be a piece there. Think avocados, just a list of obviously the fermented foods that some people have a difficult time with, but yeah, that's, that, that's another big piece here is to look at the gut, gut health, the lining, what kind of damage has been done to the gut, can the gut still produce the AO, can it still produce all the things that it needs to produce to break down histamines in the first place and, you know, or is it being sort of.
Um, overstressed and if you have over overstressed gut, then we're going to start to have those histamine responses reactions. Eventually, those things get into the bloodstream and you can have brain fog and skin issues and all these other things kind of present themselves as well.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. A hundred percent.
Now when we have histamine, so histamine is a valid reason why you may have probiotic intolerance. So how do we know? You have some fermented, some kimchi, some sauerkraut, maybe you have some kombucha, maybe you have some fermented pickles, you start to get brain foggy, you start to get itchy, hives, start to get maybe headaches.
These all can be very, you know, common, let's just say, high histamine symptoms. Um, and so, Maybe you start to notice it also with bacon. Maybe you notice it with more citrus based foods. So, I always say, look at your high histamine foods, challenge it. How do you feel? If you notice those issues, you probably could be a probiotic intolerant, probiotic side effect person.
If we add in a good probiotic, that could potentially be a problem. Now, in my line, we have the probioflora, which is kind of the, the bifidobacter then we have the sacroflora, which is gonna be the saccharomyces. These are our big two. And then we'll add in the bacillus as needed as well. Now, when we have a lot of dysbiotic bacteria, that histamine bucket is full.
So, any beneficial bacteria could put us over the top. Fermented food could put us over the top. Maybe we have dysbiotic bacteria like Pseudomonas, Klebsiella, Citrobacteria. Those could be producing histamine inside of our gut. So, we're like a histamine producing machine. And now we have histamine stimulation from allergens out in nature, different danders and pollens and grasses and such.
But now maybe let's say we have some mold issues in the house or mold issues outside from just, you know, nature naturally decaying, right? Plants and things and leaves decaying. But let's say we have maybe some mold damage from a leak. Now those things put our histamine bucket super high. Like you could just have a mold issue, you're living in a moldy house or apartment, that could be enough to fill your histamine bucket.
Now you're having headaches. brain fog, fatigue, skin issues, and then now you're super sensitive with the food, right? And so, it comes in many shapes and sizes. When that probiotic intolerance happens, I want people to think deeper. What are the underlying causes why it could be? Now, we could definitely throw in some DAO, and we could talk about, you know, natural things that we can do to kind of degranulate histamine, but I'll let you kind of comment first.
Rob Edwards: Yeah, no, I think that's absolutely true. And that's more like the palliative, right? Like it's not going to solve the problem, but it at least gives some relief in terms of that. But yeah, I think, you know, when we talk about the gut, sometimes it's complex with regards to that. And what Justin is talking about is this histamine bucket and the concept, you know, it's not just histamines.
It's any kind of stressors that are on the gut, right? So. Whether or not it's, it's a histamine or it's fungus or it's bacterial exposures or even parasitics, right? All these things can play a part in terms of increasing our, uh, our gut's ability to deal with histamine or the histamine load that's within the body.
And then of course the downstream effects of that is if we don't get those things kind of cleared out and cleaned out and rebuild the gut. And we've got to remove some of the things that are causing that in the first place, because some of it is just for a lot of people that I deal with, and probably you too, Justin, is really lifestyle.
A lot of histamine issues starts with lifestyle. What are you eating? What are you, what are you communicating to your gut? What are you communicating to your body? And histamine is where we're at now in this conversation, but how did it get to histamine? That's the question, right?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Dr. Justin Marchegiani And the big thing that you're going to see increase histamine, like I talked about the the different antigens in the environment, right?
Molds, pollens, internal mycotoxin molds in the, in the home. Remember, you have molds, but then you have mycotoxins which are produced by molds. Mycotoxins are the off gassing or the flatulence of molds. Not all molds have mycotoxins. So, like, molds outside, you may have cladosporium or microsporium from, like, natural plant decay, but then your drywall that's had water run on it from the leaky pipe, that may be producing aspergillus fusarium or, um, or, um, Or penicillium, which then produce different okra toxin, aflatoxin molds that are, that are actual mycotoxins, right?
So, we got to look at it holistically. But when we're inflamed, right? When we have lots of inflammation in our body, it could be gluten, it could be too much processed sugar, it could be exercising too hard, not sleeping enough, it could be having very low progesterone because you're estrogen dominant as a female, or low cortisol as a guy, or overly high.
right? That's gonna stimulate our mast cells, right? Our mast cells are essentially basophils in the bloodstream. When they go into the tissue, they become mast cells. Mast cells produce histamine. So, the more inflamed we are, that stimulates immune activation, mast cell activation. Histamine then will come from those mast cells slash basophils.
That will increase the blood vessel permeability. It opens things up. So, it's when you're inflamed, it's common to hold on to fluid. You know, if you think about maybe you got whacked in the eye or bumped your elbow. It gets swollen. Histamine is part of that vasodilation fluid retention type of reaction.
You're going to get cytokines. You're going to get TNF alpha. You're going to get nuclear factor kappa beta. You're going to get different interleukins. These are, these are chemical signals due to the inflammation process that, that those signals try to help bring white blood cells to clean up the inflammation.
The problem is if it's acute, it makes sense. I bumped my elbow. It's good that we get some immune response there to heal it up. But when it's chronic, now you have this low grade chronic immune activation. So, when your immune system's more active and chronic, guess what happens? Now, autoimmunity can happen.
Now, you're attacking tissue. Now, because your immune system's so heightened, and you're eating foods, now food allergies are more likely to happen as well. So, the gluten, the dairy, the processed foods, maybe the nuts or seeds or eggs. quote unquote healthy foods could even now be a, an immune activation.
And then we, of course, we have this leaky gut that now happens because of it. Now our gut's more permeable, and now all that outside world that's coming into our, uh, digestive system, now our immune system is acting, interacting with it more closely. So the more our immune system activates with these foods that are not broken down in a peptide or broken down like form, there's more likely to be an immune response to it.
Rob Edwards: Yeah, that's sort of, it comes back again to that, that, that gut health and dysbiosis that we're talking about. So the leaky gut or the imbalanced gut bacteria or, you know, SIBO kind of things, and then obviously, obviously that reduction of DAO enzyme production inside of the gut. Um, but yeah, I think mold having a big correlation again, just another stressor in terms of like what's going on inside of the body.
And so, you know. I think it's, you know, bringing up sort of the, the, the mass cell activation, seemingly a lot more people have become more aware of that and what that's doing inside of them and their body. Um, you know, and this, this chronic exposure to mold, you know, along with the increased histamine activity, like keeps the inflammation high, right.
And that contributes to all of these other symptoms that oftentimes we have. So the fatigue or the brain fog or the poor immune resilience, you know, that creates sort of this feedback loop where the body just remains on alert. Right. And it starts to drain all of our resources and we start to, you know, really spiral down, uh, from a chronic low grade perspective, going from one phase of illness to another.
And then finally, maybe you get autoimmune, maybe you get some kind of a metabolic issue, right? So when we look at chronic level diseases, autoimmune cancers, right? Diabetes, high blood pressure, all these different kinds of things that we get as we, as we continue to sort of degrade our body in these ways.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And it's a vicious cycle, right? Because you have inflammation from your food, your lifestyle, your diet, and then that creates more histamine, and then more histamine creates more inflammation, and then it's this vicious cycle.
Rob Edwards: And then of
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: course, then now you're sensitive to more foods, and then you see Dr.
J in Rob's video on probiotics, and maybe you start eating more probiotics, and then you're like, crap, I'm feeling worse, what the heck? And then you're like, I don't know what to do, right? I'm trying to make an effort, and then everything's just more sensitive. It's kind of like if you go in. You, uh, you have back pain, right?
You have joint issues, but you get a sunburn, and you need an adjustment, you need a massage, but now your tissues can't handle it because they're so sensitive, but you don't know what to do, but you want to do something, and then you kind of get paralyzed, right? And that's where a lot of people sit. I mean, I've been doing this 15 years, 5, 000 plus patients, you've been seeing patients for years as well.
Is there any patient stories that kind of come to mind for you, where you've seen people struggle with any of these things?
Rob Edwards: Dr. Justin Marchegiani Well, I think what, what I find with a lot of people is they just felt like they've done everything and can't get better. And Right. Like they feel like I've been to one practitioner, another practitioner, another practitioner, another practitioner.
And I think some of this is because you have to have a systematic systematic approach. Like you can't just listen to sort of, even this is like, we're talking about histamine. We're not saying that's your problem, right? We're just saying this is another piece of the puzzle. And so you have to be able to work with somebody that can help you to figure out where's your body at right now.
Where is that feedback loop? Because if you get stuck in it, you know, in a, in a cycle and you just think probiotics are the answer, you just think, you know, this, that, or the other, the answer, um, you know, you could get worse. Right. And then you feel like, well, well, then what do I do? And then I go to another person and, you know, they can't figure it out.
And so it's important that we start, uh, you know, for us, we test, we don't guess, and I think you're, and you do kind of the same kind of thing, right? We, we want to see where the body's at in terms of deficiencies and toxicities, infections. or those three things and kind of make a game plan that, uh, to work with the body.
And even then, Justin, you and I have talked a lot about this. We work with people and a curveball gets thrown our way. And we've even got to figure that out with them, right? Because the bodies, I mean, God's made our body in a brilliant way. It's a lot smarter than any practitioner is in general. Dr.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Justin Marchegiani 100%.
100%. And I always like to compare and contrast conventional medicine to what we do on the functional medicine side. Right? So, conventional medicine sees your histamine issue. They're very rarely gonna look at your diet. They're very gonna really look at gut. They'll very rarely look at dysbiosis. They'll very rarely even look at the probiotic intolerance you're having, the probiotic side effects, and say why.
They'll almost always will not look at mold, for instance. They won't look at mold issues. I could tell you, I have a patient. Patient reached out to Mayo Clinic. Okay. Mayo Clinic had him fill out the intake, right? This is Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota. And they filled out a questionnaire, and in the questionnaire, he brought up potential mold issues.
Mayo called him back and said, we cannot treat anyone that brings up the word mold at all. So, the most prestigious clinic in the world, Mayo Clinic, won't even touch you. if you even bring up mold. He didn't even know if mold was the thing. He's just saying, Hey, there's maybe here's why. And they were like, Nope, we're done.
We can't even see you. So this is, and I just say it because we talk about treatment options. Conventional medicine, a lot of times don't, won't even touch you with a 10 foot pole. And that's sad because these people have root underlying issues and then you help. And what do we do about it? Right? Now, your conventional approach will be H1, H2 blockers, right?
So, this will be like loratadine. Um, this will be like your Benadryl, right? Then you have your H2 blockers, right? These are your histamine. These are gonna be more like your pepsid AC, kind of more your digestive reflux, famotidine kind of issues. And then we have like your mast cell stabilized. These are gonna be like your chromalin.
Your clin is gonna be, you know, more on the drug side, and then you're gonna have leukotriene modifiers. These are gonna be your, like your, your montelukast. And then we go into steroids, right? Corticosteroids. Then we go into our anaphylaxis, like our EpiPens, and then we go into like Gleevec, which is our tyrosine kinase inhibitors.
And then we go into like Humira, like our biologics, like that's kind of the tree, right? Yeah. H one blockers to H two to mast cell stabilizers. Those are the big kind of drugs that are kind of in the chemotherapy realm. then our epipens, tyrosine kinase, and then bio that's it. And our biologics, that's it.
That's all we have. No one's making diet changes, no one's making lifestyle, no one's looking at gut permeability, mold infections. We gotta look at it at all of it. And so, getting back to our root issue. If you have probiotic side effects, dizzy, bloaty, gassy, uh, brain fog, skin issues, your histamine bucket may be full.
And so, I always tell patients, we wanna throw down seeds, In our lawn, after we've done some weeding, after we've tilled it up, after we've aerated, the seeds have a better footing to grow. If we throw down a whole bunch of seeds when there's a whole bunch of weeds already, that can create problems. And that's, that's kind of the general side effect.
And I get, I get probiotics. don't live forever in your gut. They're gonna last a few weeks to a month or so, but the goal is we bring it up. It's gonna take up a lot of that ecological niche where the bad bugs could grow. We're gonna be able to keep some fermented food in our diet more regularly. If we can't, then maybe we keep probiotics more on the reg coming in there, and that's gonna help keep a lot of the bad bugs away, and then we're not gonna be fueling it with a lot of the high processed food, excess antibiotics when we don't need it, or the excess like um, glyphosate that may be coming in that could be knocking down the good microbes too.
Rob Edwards: Yeah. And I think it just, it all comes to following a certain order. So it's not necessarily that everybody needs a good gut flora. Everybody does right. Or in terms of probiotics, you know, they're good, but sometimes the gut's just not ready for them. Right. It's not ready to that, to that degree. We've got to work on some things before we can work on that.
Right. And that's, that's true with everything. And I think just to circle back to what Justin is saying is, you know, we sort of have a ladder in terms of the way that we deal with, with healing, right. And traditional medicine is different to make that. Difference, right? So we have cellular healing. And on top of cellular healing, we have, we have our diet and lifestyle, right?
So we can make some modifications there on top of that, right? Maybe we have some supplementation. And on top of that, we have maybe some modalities. And then we finally get into the medications. And then we're into the surgeries and what happens in traditional medicine, they skip all of this. And this is the part where they're going to start on his medication or surgeries and then referrals outright, generally speaking.
And, you know, a lot of young practitioners are getting more onto that. But I, I remember being in the military and I remember, um, talking to one of the docs whenever I was really young, I must've been like 19 or 20. And, and, uh, I remember it was like the, uh, proposed amount of exercise per day that they were giving out from the, from, uh, Let's just, I don't know if I can say their name, but the recommendation was, uh, like in 10 minutes, uh, a day, that's one of the docs.
I'm like, is that for real? He's like, well, they don't believe that the American people can do more than that. So they're kind of trying to meet them in the middle. And so you have to understand that. That mindset for me helped me to understand when you go to certain practitioners, their viewpoint is not the long game.
It's a short game. We just want you to feel better. Even, even if it's at the expense of a lot of other things happening with an inside of your body. And so there's two sides, whether or not you actually want to get healthy and reverse things and start to rebuild your health. Or rather not, you just want to feel better, and those can be completely two different scenarios that we're talking about, uh, helping a person with.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: A hundred percent. I, I, I totally agree. So, when you have probiotic issues, we want to clean out the bad bacteria first. So typically, we're following my six R's, right? We're moving the bad foods. We may even want to cut out fermentable FODMAPs too, if that's a problem. And again, I like some of the FODMAPs. I like broccoli.
I like garlic. I like onions. But for a period of time, that can help starve out some of the dysbiotic microbes. Okay. And then, we would add it back in when it makes sense, especially doing herbals. It can be very helpful. We're gonna be making sure our digestion is dialed in with enzymes and acid, maybe bile.
We're gonna make sure our motility is dialed in. If we're not pooping every day and moving 12 inches of stool, we could be reabsorbing toxic debris. So, making sure we have some motility support if we need. Making sure, um, that we test our gut. We're running a comprehensive stool test, a genetic test to look at different microbes in the gut.
We're looking at H. pylori, we're looking at E. coli, C. diff, we're looking at parasites, worms, or maybe even running an organic acid to look deeper at Candida, because sometimes the stool test can miss Candida. The D arabinose or the um, the different tartaric acids can be very helpful for looking at Candida or even colonized mold in the gut.
Also the organic acids are really great for looking at C diff as well. And we can also look for some of the nutrients that can be very helpful for dealing with histamine as well. We'll talk about some of the nutrients in a second. Then we knock down the microbes and then we tend to do better adding in the probiotics and prebiotics.
When we add in the probiotics, You typically titrate that up very slowly to make sure we can handle it if we know someone is a probiotic sensitive individual. We're gonna go slow. Right? Well, typically, in my line, we add in TrueFiber or we'll add in some Sodium or Calcium Butyrate or we'll add in different fibers like um, Glucomonin.
Inulin, chicory root, we'll do different fibers like that are more plant based, like celery, carrot, citrus, um, apple pectin, it could be very helpful. And so we can titrate using very, very slowly, maybe an eighth to a quarter of a teaspoon and work it the way up. That can be super helpful. Now, from histamine standpoint, there's nutrients that can help the enzyme, DAO, diaminoxidase, that helps us metabolize histamine.
We can avoid histamines initially and get the inflammation down. That can be helpful just by getting sleep better. better sunlight, better stress reduction, uh, getting some movement. That can be super helpful. Getting a really good anti inflammatory paleo template can be super helpful. But we may be adding in things like, um, omega 3 fish oil to help with histamine, DAO.
We may be adding in B6, vitamin C, copper, zinc. These are all gonna be great ways, great nutrients to help build up our natural internal DAO. And then also, the microbes in our gut can produce Histamine, the Pseudomonas, the Klebsiella, the Citrobacter, the Proteus, the Morganella. So slowly getting down some of those microbes can be helpful.
The problem is if your mast cells go like this every day, they swell, they produce histamine. They swell, they produce histamine. But if you're starting to decrease histamine exposure, foods or the environment, that mast cell can like start to grow and grow and grow. And then when you start to do some killing at some point, it can, and you get this big flood of histamine.
So you could potentially have histamine side effects down the road just because the memory of those mast cells is to just swell up and produce that histamine and it's just waiting to release it. So that's why we gotta be careful and slow and just know that we could have. big histamine releases and that's where it's helpful to have some good binders so we can soak up a lot of this junk when it gets released having some good bentonite clay or activated charcoal fulvic minerals or zeolite or chlorella can really help bind it up so I have a product called GI binder that I use in and around it with sensitive patients to really soak up that debris.
Rob Edwards: Yeah. It's super important. And sort of like, even the, like you're talking about the mast cells or some of the other stabilizations of that is, you know, quercetin. I think there's some research out there on vitamin C, of course, like you said, stinging nettle, bromelain. Yes. Thank you. Yes. Some of those things for like natural antihistamines, Omega 3s.
I think you already kind of mentioned that from the anti inflammatory perspective. And then, you know, adaptogens, right? Adaptogens are always good. So herbs like ashwagandha, holy basil, reishi mushroom, right? Stress reducers, um, that indirectly reduce the histamine. But, you know, they're, they're, they better help the body to adapt with these kind of stressors.
And then, you know, like liver support. Right? Like glutathione, milk thistle, dandelion root, those kind of things can be beneficial, too.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Dr. Justin Marchegiani 100%. I love it. I think we're hitting all the, uh, the big things out of the gate here. So, you know, from a functional medicine standpoint, we always want to look root cause.
Like, what's the underlying cause? So, microbes can be a big cause of the probiotic intolerance. You could have mold in the environment, crummy digestion, like just poor enzyme, poor acid, poor bio. Of course, you could have antibiotic exposure and you could have. A lot of dysbiotic bacteria that then increase histamine and a little bit of histamine you get from the probiotics could be enough to set you off.
So all these things could be at play. Also, progesterone, guess what, has anti histamine effects. So if you're a female and you're chronically stressed, you lower that progesterone and that could put you a little bit more estrogen dominant and now that anti histamine aspect of the progesterone, now you don't have that working in your favor.
So estrogen dominance and lower progesterone could be a thing as well.
Rob Edwards: Yeah, absolutely. And then of course, medications like insets, things like that, right? So that can sometimes affect like blood pressure medication. Some other kind of SSRIs I think can do as well, but they can affect the body's ability to break down the histamine as well.
So that's another thing to check out.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes. So, the different medications, antibiotics obviously can do it. NSAIDs, like Rob already mentioned, antidepressants, right? Amitriptyline, SSRIs, opioids can do it, right? Morphine, codeine, those kind of things. Muscle relaxants, different diuretics or water pills, anesthetics, uh, antiarrhythmic medications, um, alcohol is a big one, right?
Um, Most people that have Asian descent, you know, right, you get that Asian glow with the alcohol. It's because Asians have a hard time processing the acid aldehyde, which can create a histamine response. That's why they, they have been known to take Pepsodacy to decrease that glow with alcohol. And I get that sometimes as well.
And so, that's a histamine response. Now, you can hydrate well in between and take some charcoal that can also be very helpful to, um, to deal with that and to keep that.
Rob Edwards: Yeah. A lot of it's lifestyle. So like Emily, for example, my wife, you know, so she gets sometimes, you know, histamine response. We actually did a, a thermography the other day with her and, uh, her entire lymphatic system was inflamed.
And, um, which was kind of crazy because I've never, I've obviously we've seen people with them all the time, but we've never done it with her. And, uh, she actually had some inflammation in around her sinuses and, but she didn't have any sinus issues. And two to three days later, she got them right. It's sort of like it sort of found it first and foremost, but my wife, she drinks a lot of wine and I'm just bringing this up because wine can create a ton of a histamine reactions, especially for, in my opinion, post 40, uh, your body less, it handles with these things a lot, a lot less, uh.
Stable than it used to be. So, beer, wine, cheese, cheeses, things like that, uh, are gonna definitely contribute, especially if you're doing them day in and day out, which as a coping mechanism. Yep. Like coping mechanism. We have five kids. Let's have a glass of wine every single night or two eventually that might catch up with you.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And there are lower histamine sources, right? You can definitely do a dryer. White versus a red. Sometimes the reds have, can cross contamination with some gluten from the barrels. Mm-hmm . Plus, we tend to gravitate to reds more, I think, because of the phytoestrogen quality. So, if you're a perimenopausal female and your estrogen is starting to drop a little bit, you may feel a little bit more hormonally balanced with the, with the red.
Now, I would just say, Hey, let's add in some herbs. Let's use some herbs to kind of naturally get your hormones dialed. Let's fix your adrenals, maybe some more DHEA. And then we can, um, choose alcohol that's gonna be a little bit more histamine friendly too. Dr. Justin Marchegiani
Rob Edwards: Yeah, absolutely. Like the agave, things like that.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, like a tequila, yeah, a um, a Tito's vodka that's been like triple activated charcoal filter. There's a lot of other options. They're just a really nice dry, I do like dry kind of um, whites, like dry Prosecco, dry Cava. dry champagne, something very, very dry and clean, right? I know, like, when I have something and I don't have a headache or feel off or sleep bad, I know that wine, I do well with it, right?
And so, that's where I kind of make notes of like, all right, what wines do I do well with? And I just kind of make a note on that, so.
Rob Edwards: Dr. Justin Marchegiani And that gets into the innate intelligence of the body. So, we do a lot of, like, the wines, like, she won't do anything domestically. California that she tends to get, you know, tends to get a headache, those kind of things off of them.
Overseas, they do it a little bit different that the, uh, the way that they process it is differently. I don't know enough about it to specifically, you know, talk about their process, but it's going to make a difference. Dr. Justin Marchegiani
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Like if you go to Italy and Spain or like France, it's not going to have the GMO, not going to have the glyphosate, not going to have as much of that pesticide residue.
And so I always try to try to rather do more European ish. I think you have less chemical load there for sure.
Rob Edwards: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. No, this is a great,
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: excellent podcast.
Rob Edwards: Yeah. Yeah. It's great, man.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent podcast. People listening head over to see Rob. You want it? Rob sees patients worldwide. If you want to work with him, heritage health dot L I F E heritage health dot life.
Is that correct? Rob?
Rob Edwards: I tried to get the. com didn't have heritage health. that life. That's how you find it. Dr. Justin Marchegiani And
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Rob sees patients and works with these exact issues, you know, all the time. Rob has a, you know, colorful background being working in the Navy, being a Navy Corpsman, you know, being a nutritionist, being in the functional medicine.
So he's a lot of history and background. Love to work with you. And you guys, I'm Dr. J. Justinhealth. com is my site. We'll put links down below for Rob and me. If you want to dive in, we are here for you. And again, if you have one family member or friend that could benefit, please share it with them and put your comments down below.
We'd love to see it.
Rob Edwards: Yeah. Awesome.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: All right. Excellent. Take care guys. Have a good
Rob Edwards: one. Yeah. See ya.
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