Dr. Justin Marchegiani welcomes Jim Klopman, the founder of Slack Bow, in today’s podcast. Listen as Jim shares some interesting and exciting information about his product, the slack bow. Learn the inspiration behind this product and discover how to greatly improve your balance by using it.
Know about the types of movement, the muscles and the exercises involved in using a slack bow. Understand why this product is very effective in improving balance and performance athletically.
In this episode, we cover: 
3:45 Inspiration behind slack line
15:12 Diet’s connection to Balance
18:36 Portable Neurostimulator
33:12 Top three movements on a slack bow
Jim Klopman: Thank you. I’m really happy to be here. I really appreciate it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent. Well tell me a little bit more about yourself, and kind of your journey and how you gotten up to this point today.
Jim Klopman: Well at age 50, I wanted some—I ski well. I was skiing since I was 3. And I wanted to ski well in my 70s and 80s and I was trying to figure how to do that. I saw a lot of guys stop skiing or not ski as well. I knew I couldn't be skilled coz I’m way_
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jim Klopman: And I didn’t think it’d be a strength coz you know, I’m 64.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.
Jim Klopman: I’m as strong today as I was when I was 30 so fitness stays awesome. Health because of guys like you is awesome, so. What was the missing factor? And I determined, I think at the time that it was balance. So I looked into the industry for some balance training. There wasn’t anything that really was a challenge to me.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.
Jim Klopman: So I created some of my own methods and my skiing got better which I was kinda shocked that. And I took these methods and I applied it to other athletes and they were all getting better in their sports and I just kinda came to this one determination that balance is a subconscious autonomic system or part of ANS
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.
Jim Klopman: And you can always ski as fast as your balance allows you. You can always hit a golf ball as hard as your balance allows you. Just you go over that limit, you’re not gonna to be able hold up when you hit the golf ball or you’re gonna fall on your ski.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. And we’re talking Alpine skiing, right?
Jim Klopman: Yeah. Absolutely. But we have great experience with skate skiers and cross-country skiers as well. We have skate skiers that we’ve trained that will say, “I can't believe it. Day one, first day of this year, I was as good as I was last day of last year. There’s a massive amount of balance and those two uh— forms of skiing as well.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I’m actually a water skier and I also was a long-term Alpine skier as well.
Jim Klopman: Right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So huge fan of skiing. Lot of proprioceptive coordination with that.
Jim Klopman: Right. Right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I totally agree. And again, you know, people forget one of the main feedback, the mechanoreceptors to the brain. That’s where a lot of the feedback comes from the brain is from movements.
Jim Klopman: Right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: If we’re not moving and if we’re not stimulating the muscles and the ligaments and the tendons to work in certain way—
Jim Klopman: Right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That brain loses that nourishment, that communicational feedback which is so important.
Jim Klopman: Right. Right. What— we spent a lot of time working with athletes improving those—their peripheral vision. So we’ve seized it and we believe at our numbers. We’ve looked at it. About 90% of the information that comes in—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jim Klopman: —to the subconscious system comes in through peripheral vision so when you do things like a balance challenge, you’re engaging every its of bits of—it’s a total neural load and it’s the thing we do to have fun; it’s the thing that makes us feel better.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.
Jim Klopman: Nobody else says, “Hey I need to spend more time in the office.” You need to get out. You need the motorcycle riding, waterskiing, snow skiing any of these things, or going to amusement park. A balance challenge will just make us feel better.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. 100%. And so tell me about the slack bow. The slack bow is one of these things that you created. I mean, they’ve been and slack lining for a while.
Jim Klopman: Right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: My friend massage therapist, he's a huge slack liner.
Jim Klopman: Right. He puts slack lines across the uh—the board walk down to Lake Austin and such and he does slack lining and he did want to think that it Moab last year was a three or 400 foot slack lines.
Jim Klopman: Yeah. Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think it's great— it's great that it really has a lot of proprioceptive stimulation to the brain. But tell me about how you came upon the slack line? How that helped improve your health and just describe what that is, in case listeners don't know what that is.
Jim Klopman: Slack lining is—is a 1 to 2-inch wide flat web—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.
Jim Klopman: –that people will stretch over long distances and walk on like a tight rope. Now they’re doing this high line stuff nowadays which amazing like a __.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jim Klopman: They’re 400 feet of the ground.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jim Klopman: I mean they have safety built.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.
Jim Klopman: And they’re hooked with a__ in a harness, but what I—It started on this slack line years ago was that I didn't want to walk on it coz I didn’t feel like there’s any athletic position. For one, it’s directly in front of you. In fact, there’s a tendency to be a little back on your heel.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.
Jim Klopman: All athletic sports, they’ll play in the front part of your foot. So, I created the slack bow which is a form that’ll hold 2 inch of web line that we can have infinite levels of adjustment in terms of the drop of the curve, or how loose or how tight it is. And we just do one-foot position on it. So I then took that and advanced to another step.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.
Jim Klopman: And we actually have applied for a patent on something called the “slack plate” which is something— is a three and half inch wide plate we put on a 2- inch line. What we determined is that a tight wire is easier than a rope. A rope is easier than a 1-inch line. A 1-inch line is easier than a 2-inch line and a 2-inch line is easier than a 3 1/2 -inch plate. So the wider the platform is under your foot, the harder it is to balance. And we take people through three positions, uh—we call that routine—we do straight on uh—parallel, we do diagonal where the big toe and second toe’s on the board and we do perpendicular, where across the board. 3-3 positions represent the three major balance challenges that you have. Your left or right, you’ve a rotational balance challenge—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.
Jim Klopman: and your front-back challenge. So when we get on there, we did what’s called two minutes of attempts. Now I've had slack liners come in to the studio, and say, “Hey, can we play on your equipment?” I’m like, “Sure.” So they walk back-and-forth, turn around. They do some cool stuff, jump around. “Bet you wanna try what we’re doing?” “Okay” To stand on a slack line on one foot for two minutes is pretty damn hard. And we’ve had the _athletes in the world come in and they go, “I’m sweating after 30 seconds” So what's happening is you’re engaging every little muscle in your body and no big muscles. And then we add other components to that. What we do— what’s called neural loading. We will have you pick up a kettle bell or throw you off balance. We’ll start throwing things at you. After you catch or not, we've made noises around you, we’d bang you with foam sticks all these things kinda load the neural system differently while you are in this maximal balance challenge.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And did you say when the surface area gets wider, it gets harder?
Jim Klopman: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Is that what you're saying?
Jim Klopman: Yeah. Right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That almost sounds counterintuitive.
Jim Klopman: It is.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You think more surface area, you think more stability. Can you talk about that?
Jim Klopman: Yeah. Well, well I’m not sure why. Okay, number one, so—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jim Klopman: Here’s my guess. One is that we have this ape-like prehensile ability to kinda grab the bottom of our feet.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jim Klopman: After all, our hands have 25 so the bones and muscles in our body. Well, feet also have 25 some bones and muscles in our body. In a sense, they have similar characteristics in terms of their movement and how they are structured. Now, that's one theory. The other theory is a more mechanical one. If I'm on something and if I'm just rolling from side to side on a thin form, that's one thing. But now if I’m out here and I rolled to the outside, it's turning the whole foot, so to speak. And it now becomes – and we find that. If this is the inside of foot, this is the big toe, this is the outside foot. As soon as somebody gets the outside of the foot, coz there’s really no muscles here, right? As soon as they get here, boom! they go. So we’re always trying keep them slightly pronated and this is what we talked about, too. We believe knee pronation and I know it’s a sin to talk about that because weightlifting is straight over your knees, straight over your toes. But every athletic move, I don’t care what move it is, whether your turning, hitting, throwing, you end up pronating one knee inside the toe. So we’re a big believer in turning the knee to balance better. And again, it works, that plate makes it more difficult. When you are on a line, makes it less difficult. And I used to keep a 1-inch line in the gym because I get the same challenge all time. I get it out and I’d string it up and show people.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jim Klopman: But I tell people now they come in, they’re trying to message us. Next time you see a rope fence, go stand on it. It’s easy compared to standing on a 2- inch line.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting. And that makes sense. Your pronation is based on the knee kind of moving inward a little bit.
Jim Klopman: Yes.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: But you're not putting it under load outside of your body weight. So it makes sense that it's more for balance than it is for, kinda loaded wraps, correct?
Jim Klopman: Well, we will load it, too but we won’t load it with massive load. It’s not gonna be wrong. If you’re doing, you know, maximal weightlifting and we talked about this the other day.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Like squat—
Jim Klopman: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Front squats, those things. You don’t want your knees to collapse out much with those.
Jim Klopman: No. It’s a different thing all together. What we will do and you know, they’re talking, some of these__
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.
Jim Klopman: How do you build strength inside the leg? Coz when you’re doing squat, you’re building a lot of strength on the outside of the—I don’t know why they called them quads—I don’t know if you know they discover new muscle amongst the quads. So now it’s the ___but—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, really?
Jim Klopman: Yeah. [laughs] But the point is you know, when you’re building, in those squats, you’re building a lot of strength outside, right? But it’s the inside the leg that’s pushing off and moving.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.
Jim Klopman: — in directional, you know, that change directions and where they hit things, so we’ll actually do strength work but it’s not a maximal strength work. We’ll get people into it—what’s what we call uh—we’ll put one leg low, one leg high up on a platform and have him do a squat and what happens is that lower leg will actually pronate a little bit and carry most of the weight and the upper leg won’t have any weight on it at all. And that's a position at your end when you run and cut.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay. Interesting. So just trying to understand your progression. So you’re—you kinda went to this from a performance enhancement.
Jim Klopman: Right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: — for the skiing aspect.
Jim Klopman: Right. And were there any neurological issues in the past or neurological brain issues that you are trying to improve or uh—address?
Jim Klopman: None that I knew of.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay.
Jim Klopman: I've always had this fascination with— you know, I have one of those brains that’s, you know, flunked 8th grade two years in a row.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.
Jim Klopman: I flunked ninth grade and you know, you know the report card—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.
Jim Klopman: “Jim’s brilliant, why isn’t he getting his work done?” That kinda thing.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.
Jim Klopman: And uhm—you know, I found the board of a large uh—organization that has professional mental health care practitioners and I was their advisor. So I was exposed to the best psychologists in the world. But finally, one day, in my late 50’s, I had said, “Something’s not right.” So I went to see Dr. Daniel__
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup
Jim Klopman: And they came back and said, “Boy, you have a lot of brain damage. You’ve got the brain of an NFL football player.” So that means I’m on my way to chronic traumatic encephalopathy, early Alzheimer's or dementia. So I was like, you know, “oh, crap mode” and then one of the great things about their post-review when they're showing me the scans__ “You have—have a tremendous amount of damage to your cerebellum.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmm
Jim Klopman: And we believe in neuroplasticity so what we want to do is you need to balance train.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it.
Jim Klopman: I do that every day coz that’s my business. They go now, “You need to do more”. And I’d go, “You don't understand there's nobody in my age in this country that has balance as good as I do. I balance train all time.” And they kept arguing with me and I finally say, “Screw it. Okay, I’ll do more balance work” But then at that point, it sort of makes sense to me why I did it and why maybe I felt so much better and more integrated. And for me, when I'm skiing, you know, you’re former Alpine skiing, you’re a water skier. Those are high-speed, high intensity.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jim Klopman: Huge amount of data coming through your system. Your brain goes quiet. That’s when my brain was quiet. Was it at 60 miles an hour slope? It was not quiet if I’m sitting around the desk.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.
Jim Klopman: So I pushed him through that. I talk a lot about on the book. Because a lot of great research that says, you take a walk in a cityscape, your brain maybe, it improves little bit. You take a walk in an uneven surface uh— on a path with you know, fractal surfaces like those trees behind you all over your place.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jim Klopman: These are all balance challenges. You produce a different level of chemicals in your brain. So there’s some real solid proof that says, these balance challenges do help the brain. And its— you go do these things on the weekends, you can get up and go to work. I mean—and have it sort of drawn out by Friday and you get up and do it again on— on Saturday.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. So walk me through that. So you got this PET scan. Were you doing this type of slack line training before the PET scan?
Jim Klopman: Oh, yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So you were already doing that pre- So then you mentioned, certain areas of the cerebellum which is this are right in the back that of the head, that first bump. Those areas weren’t lighting up? Is that what you were saying?
Jim Klopman: Yeah. I mean, what they show in this PET scan is— is they showed uh— it looks like a tissue scan but it’s not.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jim Klopman: You see these black holes. I don't have a photo with me.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.
Jim Klopman: But see these black holes and those are non-functioning parts of the brain. So you don’t have a giant dang in the prefrontal cortex which makes sense because I've used to have real bad judgment. I’ve got a big, big dang in the corpus callosum area.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jim Klopman: But in the back of the head, it’s just totally muddled and sort of knocked out and I just— I just sort of gonna say we all think that the balance center is in the cerebellum.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jim Klopman: But one thing I found, you know, clearly and you’re a doctor, is it the 40,000 neuroscientists in the world—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jim Klopman: In about 20,000 are researching the brain-body interface. So if we knew what the hell's going on, these things wouldn't be happening, or somebody like me has adversely destroyed cerebellum but has great balance.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, absolutely. These other parts of the brain that can definitely compensate and pick up what where others aren’t doing as well.
Jim Klopman: Right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And so what happened, post-op? So did you increase your training? What happened and what of the post scan were like? Were there improvements?
Jim Klopman: I haven’t done post scans. But just to let you know that I went to the—coz I have no problem going onto bleeding as__ technology. I started doing some __stem cell work and I think that's had a help. That’s help me some, too. So I just take, you know, they’re pulling it from my bone marrow three years ago. Now they are doing it from fat. But we’re spending it and pulling out and then just doing with a little IV push. And I—I’ve had a couple of __ down as well. I think those things may help. But I’m waiting probably another year to—before I go back and have a test done. So I— I work at it from a couple different angles. I do a lot more balance now. I used to do balance instinctively. I just felt better afterwards and it’s really a business model problem for me. But uhm–But I do it instinctively now, I’m more conscious about doing it more regularly. And it helps. And the reason it's a business model problem is it— people come in and they work with us and they get a massive work out but they leave feeling good. They would leave feeling integrated and typically people associate feeling like shit means a good work out, right?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jim Klopman: “Uh, my trainer kicked my ass.”
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jim Klopman: So we don’t give you that sensation but we have that clients that leave and go “You know I left your place and later that afternoon, I went to go spin class and I had to beg out halfway through because I was out of gas.” We do deplete the system, but we deplete it and you feel wholly integrated and well. Just like it—you feel like after you’ve waterski for the day, you’ve snow ski for the day. Man, you feel great, but you know you’ve been gassed.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. I mean, you’re really stimulating the nervous system to recruit more fibers and a different way to provide that stability versus just that gross power and force, so to speak. So that makes a lot of sense.
Jim Klopman: Right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And how important right now for you and for your improvements and the people that you work with, is the dietary component? Are you really making sure the inflammations reduced? The nutrient densities up in decreasing toxins? What’s that component like?
Jim Klopman: Personally, I do a lot on it. You know, I’ve been on a—coz I read somewhere—I jump on things when I shouldn’t.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jim Klopman: 25 years ago, the brain, you know, needs a massive amount of fat. I've been on a high butter diet my whole life, so to speak.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jim Klopman: And it really helps me because now it has become popular with Dave Asprey, the Bulletproof guy.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Ketogenic. All that. Yup.
Jim Klopman: And I’ve trained him. And you know, I think it's an important factor is just something I stay away from. I point people in that direction and what I'm—you know, basically I’d say high-fat and you got to get more microbes. I don’t think any of us get enough of the right microbes in our system. And I know myself when I’m in sort of microbial imbalance, micro—micro biomes not correct. It will affect my balance. It will affect my performance.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.
Jim Klopman: We work with—we work with MS patients uhm— and we work with—like you said, these people have concussions and you can see sometimes in them that things change. You know, I’ll ask him, “What did you eat yesterday?” And you can see things change with that, too, so—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, yeah. I see that a lot and there's some even some research study showing that just gluten exposure to decreases blood flow up the carotid artery which these little garden hose that’s inside of you head.
Jim Klopman: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That can decrease frontal cortex—
Jim Klopman: Sure.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: kinda output and stimulation, so—
Jim Klopman: Right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Again, like you mention, your cerebellum wasn’t as active. There are probably other areas that are picking up the slack.
Jim Klopman: Right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So we want to make sure we have oxygen and nutrition.
Jim Klopman: Right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That's all gonna happen via blood flow. And for pinching that off, that make sense for the impairment, for sure.
Jim Klopman: Right. And it’s a neural loading, too. Your vagus nerve is your biggest nerve.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jim Klopman: And it’s overworking coz it’s trying to coordinate crap between your stomach and your brain and that's a problem. You know, recently—I can’t remember the name of the University, it escapes me—But recently discovered that there’s a brain tissue in the lower back that actually takes data from the feet and manipulates it and sends the sense back down to lower extremities. So even balance information that’s not going to the brain, you know, you have these little pockets of brain tissue in the stomach, in the heart. And now they found a little pocket of brain tissue in the lower spine. So to me, it's all these— people talk about brain and—and I, you know, my own brain, right? But just think that this balance system is like magic. I mean, this stuff going on everywhere we teach people how to use their hands. And I had a guy this morning had amazing breakthrough and goes, “I get it. I feel it. I understand it.” And I think that there’s data that comes in through here that we don’t know about.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely.
Jim Klopman: And it’s hung. We see people all the time position at times in different places.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.
Jim Klopman: And there’s research that came out University of Wisconsin with Dr. Paul Bach-y-Rita who sort of discovered the whole neural plasticity deal—They take a neurostimulator called the PoNS device, a portable neurostimulator. They put it on the tongue and they have people with zero vestibular system—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jim Klopman: –that put on the tongue and they stand up, and they can walk, and they can move within seconds of putting the thing in. and the crazy thing is, they take it out as a residual effect that’ll last an hour or two. And the more they use it, the longer the residual effect goes for. So it's like, “okay, they got it destroyed the whole tube system and the rest of your systems gone. But here they are, up walking and moving. What the hell is going on?” It’s such a complex system. I don't think we can say it's one thing or another. It's everywhere.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So what was that device in the mouth, again?
Jim Klopman: It’s called the PoNS Portable neurostimulator. It was developed at University of Wisconsin, Dr. Paul Bach-y-Rita’s lab. I forget what they call it now. And there’s a—now I think a Canadian Company had it for awhile and they were trying to get FDA approval and now it’s in a company in Pennsylvania someplace. But the problem is you know, FDA nowadays—how does it work? What’s the—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jim Klopman: How does it work?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.
Jim Klopman: Nobody knows how it works. What we see with the concussion patients is when we stimulate the whole nervous system. The whole neural load, they get better. And these are—we have physical therapist that had—had concussion, post concussion syndrome in their own team, their own, you know, group of doctors and other physical therapist can help them. They come in, they get fixed because we stimulate all this nervous system. Well, they believe with the portable neurostimulator, that just by stimulating the tongue’s richest nerve part of the body, stimulating those nerves somehow connects the other—makes, I don’t know, they don’t know—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So this device, it sits in your mouth and provides like a stimulation of the tongue. Is that what it’s doing?
Jim Klopman: So they put it in your mouth—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jim Klopman: And it’s got a plate with a little stimulators all over it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it.
Jim Klopman: And there’s this little piece out here that’s got a level eye.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jim Klopman: So you lean your head on your left, you get stimulation on this side. You lean on the right, you get stimulation—lean back. So the tongue becomes this sort of what those three__ that’s supposed to do in your vestibular system.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jim Klopman: Starts to sort of tell you where you are and that’s pretty cool. What's cooler, though, is when they take the thing out yet.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And you keep that benefit.
Jim Klopman: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s really cool.
Jim Klopman: And it stays for a while. And we have the same results. It will stay for a while and then, boom! There’s uh like, two hours later and you tell them before about well being and balance uhm—back where his first patient was a woman named, uh—last name was Schwitz. She had a destroyed balance system. She put this thing in her mouth, she—15 seconds she's up, she's got her balance and then she take out the residual effect that’d last an hour. It would last longer, longer but she said every time—and she knew she had a cure to her balance problem. She said, “Everytime my balance— I lost my balance system after a residual effect wore off, I immediately got depressed.”
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmm.
Jim Klopman: And so you have people that—who have Meniere’s disease, they go, “Oh, it’s caused by depression.” I’m not so sure that the Meniere’s disease is the primary.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.
Jim Klopman: And the depression is secondary.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting. Okay, so—and by the way, I think I remember the slack bow over at Bulletproof. Did Dave Asprey had it at the Bulletproof conference?
Jim Klopman: Yeah. I had it there.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jim Klopman: Two years ago. Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I remember that. Absolutely. Okay. Alright. Very cool. And so—
Jim Klopman: So you look familiar, too. So now—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay. Alright. Cool. We’re putting it all together. So, looking back here, right? So, did you start just doing slack lining before you went to the bow and then created the bow more of this kinda convenient? Is that kinda how it worked?
Jim Klopman: Yeah. That’s a good question. So I put up a slack line, you know—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jim Klopman: I was looking for something in the industry, you know, I can stand on a bagel board—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jim Klopman: And do all sorts of things on that. Bows were never any challenge.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jim Klopman: So we use bows with very unique ways now.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.
Jim Klopman: Uhm—and we use balance boards. I make my own—we make our own balance boards now. I got on the line, I said, “ I can’t do it. This is a balance challenge.” What I need—you know, you can’t—you’re not gonna get stronger if you lift 5 pounds a day, right?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.
Jim Klopman: You gotta lift 5 pounds, you get better; you lift 10 pounds, you get stronger.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jim Klopman: Well, the same thing with balance. You just can't do it—“I’ll just do this”
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.
Jim Klopman: Coz you’re not gonna get better unless it’s a real challenge. Well where’s the challenge? And then I started playing around with it, going—well, you know, all balance is on one foot or the other. Whether you're skiing or whatever the sport is, you are putting weight on one foot. Even in your sport of waterskiing—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jim Klopman: It used to be all back. Now you’re moving forward, turning, moving back, one foot, two-foot type of thing going on.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, yeah.
Jim Klopman: You run, you’re on one foot, you got uh—you hit something, you’re transitioning from one foot to the other. It’s just all one foot. So I started doing some 1 foot work on it and adding other components to it. And A I said, “Well, this is it.” It’s not the walking because if you have one foot directly in front of you, that’s a very unstable position. Everything—you know, this is by feet. I’m gonna be here or here. I’m never gonna be like this. So, after that, I said, “Why, I gotta do this on a regular basis, but I can’t keep stringing it up on tress. I can’t keep wrecking trees, you know. So I try to build my own frame, that didn't work. Uhm- I contacted Auburn University, uh— and they hooked me up to their senior class. In their senior class, engineering class design my slack bow for me.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s amazing.
Jim Klopman: And it—I got 7 students on my patent with me.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s very cool. And what does the slack bow cost?
Jim Klopman: They’re 14.95 plus shipping. You know, it’s a big device. It’s 15 feet long. We have this thing called the slack block and I’ll send you a couple. It’s uh—13 inches long and probably 80% replicates the movements that you have on a slack bow. We say—I say the way you define a good balance challenge is it has to engage the whole body.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay.
Jim Klopman: If you’re just wiggling the bottom of your feet, or just your butt’s moving, your ankle’s moving and the upper body has to stay still, that’s not a balance challenge. Until you feel like you have to engage this whole system up here, that’s become a true balance challenge.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So someone wants to, you know, try one of these devices or exercises, what’s the best—if you’re on a slack line, or on the slack bow, what are the best top three movements to start to kinda get your, you know, your foot, well, so to speak.
Jim Klopman: That’s a good question. So if you get on a slack line—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.
Jim Klopman: First of all, it’s best to have it close to the ground. If you have to have it high up, you—now it seems today, if you get on our slack bow, we have you close to it. So there’s no, you know, there’s no kinda push to get up there coz you’ll get exhausted.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.
Jim Klopman: where? At your quads so we just want you to roll on and lift off the other foot. So close to the ground is important.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.
Jim Klopman: The other is to be on an athletic position. The athletic position is like a 1 foot on the line on pressing forward on the inside front quadrant of my foot, my knees bent—I’m not bending over at the waist—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jim Klopman: I’m dropping down into it. And the other leg is kicked back a little bit. And then you just kinda have to let things move freely. You can’t—you know, we have dancers coming, they wanna hold positions and cheerleaders, other athletes wanna hold tight.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jim Klopman: You gotta let loose and we’ll see—we’ll see athletes that come in and do a lot of uh—big weights and I know these are good medical terms, so I hate to talk like this in front of a doctor, but we—we have big mobilizer muscles—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jim Klopman: — and the small stabilizers muscles.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Of course.
Jim Klopman: So these guys that are super active with the big muscles they come in and they can't move. And it’s funny you'll see them and all they can do is waive their hands. And they’re like, “Why are my hands doing this?” And I’m going, best—the only thing that you have left that you can move. Over time, the more balance they get, the more things start to release. And people who have back problems come in, they got a back problem and then they’ll work for two hours and they’ll come back and they call me the next day and go, “My back problem is – I have no more pain.” And I think it’s because they have done so much work with the big muscles that all big muscles can do is kinda go on-off, on-off. And you know that whole spine area has got thousands of whole stabilizer muscles and they have to be able to move and flex. And once we activate those, it takes the big muscles from going on-off, on-off and the little muscles start to take over.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And I totally agree. I think a lot of people, too, just from training and going to the gym, they typically train the muscles in 2-dimensional ways. They—they use machines that essentially make the muscles big and stupid. And they are two-dimensional, that’s the problem because muscles need to work in three-dimensionals. That's how you get the tendons and the ligaments to work and stabilize, right? And so when you jump on these slack line for instance, or any type of device that requires three-dimensional stabilization, you’re right. You can barely do anything because your nervous system has to recruit every big muscle that you don’t have much range of motion left after the fact.
Jim Klopman: You’re 1000% right. And—and you know, we see that. The other things that are driving me crazy is it when you see in a gym or—and you see weight lifting, it’s all bilateral movement.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.
Jim Klopman: There’s nothing in sport that is bilateral movement. Everything's gonna be ipsilateral, crossing the body.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.
Jim Klopman: So this is crazy. Number two, you see people who uh—you know, it’s a lock out, so I gotta go back on my heels. I take my pelvis, I know there’s some more anterior-posterior toe but I call it rolling on or rolling back.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jim Klopman: They hold their ass under, they’ve locked out their knees, they’re on their knees.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jim Klopman: No sport anywhere is played on your heels. Nothing is.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.
Jim Klopman: And then when you, I’m sure you see back problem coming in. You see old man, lose their asses.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jim Klopman: Coz they’ve rolled them under the whole time. They've lost structure and muscle and their glutes and now they’re back’s carrying all their weight, their hamstrings are small and they got bad backs. I think it’s just—I don’t get it. Why would you build strength in all these positions and all these motions that you don't use anywhere athletically?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. That’s the thing. A lot of people who would have back issues, they lose the ability to have proper hip extension out of their glutes—
Jim Klopman: Right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Insead of uhm—bending or instead hinging at the hips, they’re bending at the back and you’re getting more ligamentous activation and the biggest muscles of the body, right? The ones that make the best filet steak ever, right in the glute. They’re not even working
Jim Klopman: [laughs]
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Like you said, these guys that come in, their glutes are all atrophied, right?
Jim Klopman: Right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You should have that kind of—uhm, you know,
Jim Klopman: Right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And the heart-shape is the right side up.
Jim Klopman: Right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Because their gluteus medius are overactive and their glute max at the bottom are all weak and atrophied.
Jim Klopman: Right. Right. Exactly. Yeah, I mean, so you get it. So it’s—but when we got the gym, we don’t – we don’t look at that. And the other is we see people walk—uh—we teach people how to walk. You know, you’re walking on these
shoes that have, you know, 10 to 15 mm lifts and then you get the toes rolled up and people are walking in that. We actually stand— people stand with a good posture and then I push them on the shoulders, and they just fall over.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.
Jim Klopman: They go off their shoes, get on the inside part of their toes, bend their knees a little bit, roll their posterior a little bit, so engaging their glutes, they’re stable as they can be. Then they go back to walking like that. And so we teach people how to walk coz if you wanna be an athlete, don't just be an athlete for the two hours you’re on the task or you’re on the football field.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jim Klopman: And then you walk like a noob device
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jim Klopman: You’ve seen great athletes. With great athletes walk, it's clear that they’re great athletes.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely.
Jim Klopman: Coz they move like cats.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jim Klopman: And if you think about that, move like that all day long, you can become a better athlete.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. And I think Paul Chek and Mike Boyle talked about this, too, where a lot of the lifting movements, whether it’s the squat or deadlift, or even the bench press, you’re—you know, you’re mounting on the ground, you’re pushing, or you’re extending, or you’re pressing.
Jim Klopman: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And they talked about, for instance, you have someone that has a
4-500 pound bench press, well, you get them on a cable on a one leg.
Jim Klopman: Right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And then do a press forward with a single arm.
Jim Klopman: Right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: They can't even press nearly as close to when they’re stable because the stability is in there. Coz you gotta have it stable before you can recruit, right?
Jim Klopman: There’s no doubt about it. And I had an interview with some CrossFit guys the other day.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm. And we talked about CrossFit and they said, “Well, I said you can't lift any more weight than what your balance is__”
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.
Jim Klopman: They say, “So what do you mean?” Because your body goes, “No, damn it. You’re gonna get hurt”
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.
Jim Klopman: So subconsciously, it is the most powerful part of ANS. I can slow down my heart; I can speed up; I can stop breathing; I can change blood flow. Y,ou can't sit here and go, “I’m gonna lose my balance.” You'll fake it, you know, but you’re not losing your balance. You can't say, “I’m gonna make my balance better” I can’t run and cut any faster than my balance will allow me, so the weights it holds—you know, I can only lift up so much. Well the guy who won CrossFit games this year, they had a trail run.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jim Klopman: I mean a gnarly ass trail run.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jim Klopman: I don’t know if you saw it. God, it was brutal. He kicked everybody's ass and you could see him moving it was the first event. And I just said, “This guy’s gonna win. And then he uh— placed second in the sprints coz he cut around the cones better than everybody else. And I looked at his performance here before. So he placed second in sprint, I was thinking he would have placed first if he’s been in the same heat as the other—the guy who got number one.
Last year, in the sprints, he placed 24th and 32nd. We’ll you don’t get that much better but training over the year. He did something different. And I think somehow he’s done something to improve his balance, improve his coordination and agility. So even as finding his way in a sports like that and I agree, even when you—lifting weights on your back is patently stupid.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.
Jim Klopman: But you know, lifting weights when you're standing, you—if you improve your balance, you’d be able to lift more and improve your kinetic chain at the same time.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I’m a huge fan of contralateral and ipsilateral's single leg work.
Jim Klopman: Right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Whether it’s single-leg deadlift—
Jim Klopman: Right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Or even just presses—
Jim Klopman: Right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Or just, you know, movement that involves single leg whether it's a push or pull—
Jim Klopman: Right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think it’s a great starting point.
Jim Klopman: Right. Have you heard about the research on Parkinson's and boxing? They've discovered—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Are you talking about the head injuries, the head trauma?
Jim Klopman: No, Well—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, more of the actual movemement. Okay, go ahead.
Jim Klopman: Elderly people with Parkinson's and in the—I don’t know what you call it, but retirement homes.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.
Jim Klopman: Some trainers several years ago took him to the gym and they just started boxing. People who hadn’t talk for a couple of years started talking. People are getting up on their wheelchairs. And to me, it’s like, “Oh, well, what’s the boxing?” Now that research is looking, I’m going, “It’s simple. You’re doing an ipsilateral, crossing to the line movement.” And they’re just doing this and they’re getting healthy. You know, I’m sure you’ve seen chronic patients that come in that just seem to have that homolateral left leg, left arm movement and their missing that whole ipsilateral movement in it when they walk and move.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. And that makes sense. And hopefully they’re not—you know, taking the punches on the other side of the fence with the— with the brain Parkinson's issue.
Jim Klopman: [laughs] They’re not hitting each other, just hitting their bag.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s just the punching movement. Yeah. And it’s interesting, too, because she's going to deny hitting each other listening and it's interesting to because I see, you know, some of the main benefits of exercise is really being neurological.
Jim Klopman: It is.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think there’s a handful of CEOs that a written article where they talk about exercise for them is more about—it’s more brainwork than it is muscle work. Frankly, a lot of people, they are motivated to exercise typically to lose weight and to look better naked. And that’s frankly, the major motivation. But we want to step it up one notch and say, “Okay, that may be great for the superficial, aesthetic side.” But your brain, and the neurology and your nervous system is even, you know, one level up, I think.
Jim Klopman: You get it. You get it. My god, you get it. I love that you get it. But you’re right. I mean marketing companies I’ve spoken to said, “Well you need to have some, you know, buff guy.” And I say, “Look, I’m 64 and I got like low body fat and I’m fit and all that. And they go, “Yeah. But you need to have somebody with you know, the big, massive muscle, tits, and all that kind of stuff.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Yeah.
Jim Klopman: Well, I’m not gonna do it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right. Right. And so, I just wanna make sure, let's say people wanna, you know, go all in and get some – just start doing some slack line or procure your device—
Jim Klopman: Right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Let’s just go over those top three exercise, one more time. So they jump on it. If they’re on it, you know, they’re kinda in tandem. Left leg is in front of the right—go ahead.
Jim Klopman: Well—I wouldn’t—They don’t have to start on slack line. They can start on the ground.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, great.
Jim Klopman: So start on the ground, one foot, knee bent, the other foot back.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay.
Jim Klopman: And just balance for just a couple of minutes like that. Now if you want an added challenge, you don’t have to buy me slack lock, you could just put a couple of sets of folded bath towels underneath it. And that creates enough instability right there.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So we have left leg, right leg kinda like in tandem and then vice versa?
Jim Klopman: Exactly. Right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay.
Jim Klopman: I wish I could stand back, but you know, this is your left leg and your right leg. The toe is you know, lined up with the heel.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jim Klopman: But you bend forward and you're on your knee, and you’re like this—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jim Klopman: And you let that whole body move. Now, if you wanna add—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So are you just going back and forth? Or just trying to move your hands and kinda adapt to it?
Jim Klopman: No. You just try to hold still.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hold still. Okay.
Jim Klopman: Try to stay up for as long as you can. Two minutes. It all locked out but let the body move.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it.
Jim Klopman: Now, if you want to add a challenge to that, take a kettle bell and put it on the ground, like a foot in front of you. Pick it up. Put it down 6 inches in front you. Put it down another 6 inches in front of you.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jim Klopman: You can't bend at the waist to do that. You have to drop down into a deep one-legged squat with that other leg. And it’s a master balance challenge.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I get it.
Jim Klopman: The lower you get on one leg, it's a massive challenge. Now get the other leg off the ground, right? Only on one leg and then reach out as far as you can.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it.
Jim Klopman: And you find it. You have to collapse in an organized way. You can’t bend at the waist so your chest will always line up—your chest will always line up your knees and as you drop down, you go down, down ,down. It’s harder and harder to pick that thing out in front of you.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And you’re saying the front leg comes off the ground with that coz you’re bending over?
Jim Klopman: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it.
Jim Klopman: I’ll create a video for your folks if you wanna hook up, you know, link up to that. But that's one uhm— the other is uh— you know, if you wanna advance to a slack line, do that. But, you know, there’s a lot of people__who’d do that. Same thing. Just get on one foot and just stay up as long as you can on one foot. We—my partner, Janet, give me help coz I’m always teaching people how to push them along. The reality is if you stand on slack line on one foot, your body’s gonna find the right position. Your kinetic chain is gonna find the right—all those things that’d come together. I don’t have to teach you a thing. And my business would be easy and I would make more money if I’ll just say, “ Just get up there and I'll come back and check on you 20 minutes from now.” Because you'll get better automatically. It’s a—here’s the thing, it’s a software system. So if I teach you how to play golf, you have to spend time learning how to build the skills and those muscle memory things. If I want to lift weights, you’ll lift weights so much, you get better. We have people that will come in and train and at the end of uh—say, the session, level II, they come back to be at level III. The body just is starting to work on immediately.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.
Jim Klopman: The improvement is massive. The thing that will happen to you when you go on a slack line, stand on that one leg, is your leg goes—will start to go what we call, “sewing machine” motion. And we call that neurological confusion. So if you see me on a slack line, I’m steady. I kinda float, but I still move. I can’t hold perfectly still. That “sewing machine” motion is you have the same firing pattern I do, you’re just not organized. So your muscles are going, “No, you fire” “No, you fire” With all that sewing machine motion to upset you, you— you— you can't consciously go stop it. Although I have great athletes go, “Stop, stop, stop!”
They’re yelling.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jim Klopman: — Grab the leg— just let it happen because it's your body going, “Hey, we’re figuring this shit out”
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jim Klopman: And they do, and it's amazing how much better you get, how quickly.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That's great. Okay, so we have just kinda your tandem stand, you have the bend when you’re almost doing a one-legged squat or deadlift.
Jim Klopman: Right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: As you pick up your kettle bell. What’s the next movement that they could do?
Jim Klopman: Well, you know, another thing that we talk about with the pronation, and again, this is so you know, it’s like I know young girls have problems with pronation and—and
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jim Klopman: They’re tearing ACLs. But you know, what we do is we say, “don't pronate, build strength outside the pronation” I’m like, “No, if you pronate, build strength in that.” __lets you need pronation massively. So why can’t—why am I not allowed to pronate? So we do where just simple leap side to side. We can call it, “side to side” but it’s—again, wish you’d get away with it. If you’re like this, we want you to go out and land on the inside of your foot. If you land and you roll to the outside, you’ve lost control and we want you just to narrow that stance. So you just go, “boom boom boom” and in order to make this happen your knee has to pronate.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay.
Jim Klopman: There’s nothing— if you try to go straight knee over your toe, you’re gonna land. And once you’re out here, you’re gonna find yourself tipping over. It’s once you get to the outside of the foot, you've lost your balance. So there’s no balance there. So all that balance is on that front inside quadrant of the foot.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So what’s that last third movement? I just wanna make sure we get it for the listeners.
Jim Klopman: Let’s just call it “side to side” So if this is your fee, you’re standing, I’m just going—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jim Klopman: Boom-boom just side to side like that. I'm just moving from one foot to the other. Maybe only 2 feet and I then I go wider and wider, but I’m always trying to land on the inside of my foot. If I land on the inside of my foot and I rolled to the outside, I’ve gone too far.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay. Got it. So your feet aren’t in tandem then. You’re more wider and you’re just going from side to side.
Jim Klopman: Right. One switch to the other foot. Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, then what would be one more exercise on top of that?
Jim Klopman: Let’s see— balance challenge—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And then—how about just—like if you’re in tandem, can you just move one extremity away from the body? Wouldn’t that start to recruit? Cause your body to be a little bit more unstable and have to recruit more stabilizers?
Jim Klopman: Yeah. But if you do that, you end up getting—you gotta be careful coz you’re on the outside of your foot.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.
Jim Klopman: We’d much rather if you did something similar.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jim Klopman: You get on one foot and you take the off leg that’s not on the ground and kick it behind you and that’ll cause you to get more in the inside of your foot. So if I’m doing – so—like you said, I wish was in the studio. But if I’m doing this here-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jim Klopman: I could be dropping down and have that other foot kicked behind me this way and I’m on my left foot. That's more of a balance challenge. That is to have one foot and try to kick that foot out like that.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it. Okay.
Jim Klopman: So once we’re here and the other foot to kick behind it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it.
Jim Klopman: So you just stand there now in your left foot, just take your right leg and put it behind your left and then just drop down. The more you can kick that left leg out to the side—see, my left leg is all the way up here, right? My right leg is all out here, my left leg’s here. That’s more of a balance challenge.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So you pull that back leg out and then you push it back and out a little bit.
Jim Klopman: Right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it. Awesome. Well, is there anything else you want to let the listeners know about kind of exercise, the slack line or just improving your neurology and nervous system?
Jim Klopman: I just think it's – you get it. It’s wonderful to speak to someone who gets it. Uhm—it’s a hidden loss. We have four main categories which are four main things that we say causes to lose our balance. And it’s the modern world and you know, I've developed this one—I’ve developed this index, called the “common balance index” KBI. 0 to 150 is average, 20 is you need a cane or walker; 80 is like a college athlete, pro athlete-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.
Jim Klopman: 90 is like accessory. A 100 is like a Cirque du Soleil performer.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jim Klopman: The world we live in is built for 10. And level 20 is built for people with walkers and canes. So you spend your whole life on perfectly flat floors, perfectly vertical surfaces around you, every step is perfectly sized, so you have no balance challenge when you live in the modern world. So what happens is you don’t use it, you lose it. You don’t know that your system’s getting degraded from a 50 to a 40 to a 30. Then you have a 60 challenge, you may not fall, you may not get hurt. But falls in—in are he number one cause of injury and death for people over the age 65. And that number is not going down. It is nearly doubled in the last 15 years. So how can that be with great doctors like you, great health all over the place.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Jim Klopman: The falls will get worse. It’s because we're losing our balance system and we don't know it. It’s an unseen loss and there’s other, you know, reason for the losses as well.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting. There’s also some research on vitamin D being a big thing with the vestibular system and balance as well, which is interesting.
Jim Klopman: I can imagine.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Well, excellent. You’ve given us some great information. Last question I asked everyone. If you're stuck on a desert island and you can only bring one supplement, herb, or vitamin, or nutrient with you, what would it be?
Jim Klopman: [laughs]Butter.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Butter. There you go.
Jim Klopman: Grass-fed butter because it’s loaded with vitamin D, anyways. And uh—huge amount of nutrient value to it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I love it. I love it. I appreciate that, Jim. and again, Jim's website is slackbow.com More information there. And will put some—any of the links that you mentioned earlier, will put it below the podcast description and the YouTube description as well. Awesome.
Jim Klopman: And I’ll do a little video of those exercises so people will see what I’m doing, so –
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent. Thanks, Jim, for coming on the show. Well, you have an awesome day.
Jim Klopman: Thank you. I appreciate it. Bye.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Thank you.
REFERENCES:
https://blog.bulletproof.com/about-dave-asprey/
speak pipe
Rumble
Youtube
Apple
LIBSYN
Bitchute