Abilities can be strengthened based on recent patterns of activities. Just like riding a bike, one can help the brain remember an ability through practice until one actually masters it. This persistent strengthening is a fancy word called Long-Term-Potentiation (LTP). This is Functional Neurology!
In today’s podcast, Dr. Justin Marchegiani and his awesome guest, Dr. Jared Seigler goes in-depth on functional neurology. Watch as they tackle how it can improve the brain, diagnose and cure the underlying root cause of brain issues. Also, learn about the different assessments used by functional neurologists to examine the brain. Stay tuned for more and don’t forget to share. Sharing is caring!
Dr. Jared Seigler
In this episode, we cover:
02:05 Parietal Lobe and Cerebellum
03:46 Parasites can Cause Issues in the Brain
05:53 Functional Neurology Assessment
08:01 Flamingo Test
20:20 Root Cause of Brain Degradation
23:56 Glycemia and Blood Sugar Imbalance
31:20 Antisaccades Task
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey there, it's Dr. Justin Marchegiani, welcome back to the podcast. We have a phenomenal guest, Dr. Jared Seigler in the house. Dr. Jared is an amazing functional medicine doc and functional, uh, chiropractic neurologist specialist. He's a phenomenal clinician, really dives in to a lot of uh difficult cases. And we're gonna have a ___[00:22] conversation today on the functional medicine side, we're gonna dive in on the functional neurology side, and hopefully give everyone some good pearl they can walk home with. Dr. Jared, welcome to today's podcast.
Dr. Jared Seigler: Thanks for having me, Dr. Justin, it's definitely an honor, man. Uh, I love your energy, I love what you're doin', and- I'm glad we can do this just to self-spread the word, you know?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I appreciate it brother. And you post a lot of great stuff on your Facebook page, and a lot of clinical functional medicine stuff. It's just- it's really great, it's really good brain candy, I love it. And uhm- a lot of good clinical things which as a doctor, I'm able to learn from some of the stuff that you post, and I think, maybe, some patients could as well. Uhm, what are some of the big more recent type of case studies or success stories that you're seeing in your office on the functional medicine side, recently?
Dr. Jared Seigler: Oh, man. Uh- let's see if there was- and that's where there's such a big spectrum, you know, like uh- my dopamine definitely surges when I get a letter, an email from an alright patient, saying, you know, that today she says I don't need to have the surgery anymore. Uh, like my foot can't evert, I don't need to have my ankle broken, stuff like that, uhm- so that's always really fun but, actually it really gets me just like when I, maybe get uh- more of the functional neurology type of things, when my mom was telling me like, Timmy got invited to the birthday, or just- uhm- actually last week, there is a girl- uhm- I would say she's 10, and she would have this uhm- kind of thing where whenever she would get nervous, she would pretend to be a cat. And she would-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Huh.
Dr. Jared Seigler: -do this in school, and, yeah, so of cour-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting.
Dr. Jared Seigler: -yes, of course all the kids are teasing her 'cause she'll like-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -Yeah.
Dr. Jared Seigler: -hide and hiss at them and everything. And uhm- but then like, from a neurology perspective, you know, I'm talking to the mom and she's like, “Yeah, she would bump in the stuff on her left side”, and I'm like, “That's what's called the parietal lobe”. Like, “Where is my arm?”, you know, “Can I feel this?”, and- and uhm- I was like, the left arm, is obviously right side responsible for that, and I was like, “That's…” uh, “…self-perception too”. Like maybe when we think of example people with anorexia, we usually find a lot of- like parietal lobe, because their self-perception is altered. And so, we started doing therapy on this girl's left arm and left leg, like vibration and the trampolines and things like that. And now she doesn't pretend to be a cat in front of peers whenever she's nervous.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting. So, was that some kind of fight or flight mechanism that was just shutting down that left parietal lobe? What was happening there?
Dr. Jared Seigler: Uh, well, there was some uh- she had some parasites, she also have-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-huh.
Dr. Jared Seigler: -some candida, and there was retained primitive reflexes too. So, there was a couple things going on that should have gone away, you know, as the brain develops, we get rid of like, you know, that rooting reflex-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Dr. Jared Seigler: -or that stuff ___[03:11] reflex, uhm, and those were still there. So we have the kind of integrate some of those, uhm- but for her, big part, the cerebellum, I say, you know when we think of maybe the cerebellum, everyone's like, “Oh, balance”.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.
Dr. Jared Seigler: Balance is only 20% of what cerebellum does.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow.
Dr. Jared Seigler: The other 80% is balancing mood, it actually balances the immune system-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.
Dr. Jared Seigler: I've seen people have like a right cerebellar, like brain injury, then they start developing autoimmunity like, whoa! ‘Cause the right cerebellum is usually like to breaks, they're like, “Hey, let's maybe not attack this”, and, you know-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.
Dr. Jared Seigler: -things like that.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes, that totally makes sense. So I wanna just be clear because you- you kinda- the reason why I like you so much is you really connecting lot of the functional medicine to the neurology. Will you see a lot of like, functional neurologists, they're just lke, do this, been this, look at this, but they don't- sometimes connect the gut or the inflammation or the hormones or the diet, and it seems like you have a good blend. I'm just curious though, you mentioned parasites. Does parasitic issues always cause parietal issues, or can it cause another issue in other parts of the brain?
Dr. Jared Seigler: Uhm, it can cause issues in other parts of the brain, but- so- kind of- if we get a little scientific, parasites use a thing called TH9 or Interleukin 9, and they start-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Jared Seigler: -manipulating that branch of the immune system. The tool of that part of the immune system is histamine.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mmm…
Dr. Jared Seigler: Like I was told when I'm training docs, even talking to patients. Let's say, histamine, glutamate or like VFF's inside the-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -Huh.
Dr. Jared Seigler: -brain. So now we're foggy, and we're anxious. And the problem with too much glutamate, if the pedals always to the middle, eventually that engine's gonna start burning out-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -Right. Right.
Dr. Jared Seigler: [Laughs]. Yeah, so, we had the-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …depressing up the immune system, in- in a way is what you're saying?
Dr. Jared Seigler: Yeah. Uhm, so, the way I kind of think of functional medicine, I say think of that like taking a protein shake, a functional neurology is actually exercising. So, metabolically, we have fed the muscle, but we also have to actually put in to work, you know. So, we can't just- I can't drink protein shakes and just magickly like, balloon up to 200 lbs. with a six pack. I gotta go in gym.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That totally makes sense. So, let's just say for a parasitic infections, could that potentially cause a cerebellar issue or frontal cortex issue, or is it typically go just to the- to the parietal part?
Dr. Jared Seigler: Uhm it can kind of be anywhere, it's what's called the triangulation theory. So, say maybe-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay.
Dr. Jared Seigler: -someone's genetically susceptible to like one part of their brain, like, “Oh, I'm on ___[05:36]”.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Dr. Jared Seigler: Well, now we have like, maybe with the parasite like a global deficit. So, maybe that right parietal lobe was already a little low, and now, everything’s are up slower, and in relation, the right parietal lobe might drop even lower than everything else, so that's kind of where we might notice it first.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool. So, When we're doing a functional neurological workup, which I'd love you to just, you know, we could- we're- and then started up people listening, this is also on video too, so you make sure you click on the link below, and go to the YouTube channel and watch this live assessment, I'm in at Dr. Jared, assess me, so I'd like you to just- to kinda walk me, or just, you know, walk me to a typical assessment that you would have your patients do, and also just for listeners, Dr. Jared's one of the only functional neuro, uh practitioners that does a lot of these assessments, uh, over internet and virtual which is really awesome. Say you don't have to travel a large distance, spend lots of money travelling. So, he be a great person to reach out to. So, when you're doing these assessments, what are the key areas you're looking at? Is it just the cortex, the cerebellum, and then the vestibular, or is it- do you break it down further?
Dr. Jared Seigler: We break it down a lot further, we usually actually have people fill out a hundred questionnaire…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -Wow.
Dr. Jared Seigler: …uhm, it's only a hundred questions, so not that bad. But then that gives me a sense of like, okay, I'll relooking' at pre-frontal cortex, you know, does the kid hit people, do they have attention issues, can they not make decisions, or they poorly planning, uhm, or maybe, is it like cerebellar, like, oh they walk funny or they can't dial in, s- or- the vestibular system for example is typically if they're like, uh, PTST anxiety like I can't go in a crowded place, I get super nervous like, alright, let's maybe think of it as a vestibular amnesia and instead of like, “Oh, here's your Xanax” or something like that. Uhm, so you're kind of catching me on the fly where usually I have an idea like, “Alright, this is where it's gonna be”, but I usually start to- uh, think of the brain stem, and the cerebellum first, 'cause those usually the repair shot-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it.
Dr. Jared Seigler: -for the rest of the brain.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, right back in here deeper, right?
Dr. Jared Seigler: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: The big spot we're lookin' at- and so- up- I- when we look at the brainstem, we're just looking at it globally, there's not a right or left of that, correct section?
Dr. Jared Seigler: Uh, it can be like right now, like, when I look at your face, some looking for our- maybe do you have one eye higher than the other-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Jared Seigler: -do you like to turn out of the side, you know, is maybe someone's spaced like a functional deaf, is it like, they only talk out a one side of their mouth, it's usually not like someone comes in with the stroke, and they’d just like this. Like that's-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Dr. Jared Seigler: -pretty obvious.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Dr. Jared Seigler: And we're looking for like, “Hey this person, they don't really smile out of the right side”, you know, and it's the lower half of the face. Let's start thinking, maybe cranial nerve 5 or something like that, versus, you know, is it the whole face, so we're thinking of the motor stroop, and- but anyway, it's usually one of the easiest things to assess this balance. So let's say most people think they're good at balancing, that the true way to determine it, I call the flamingo test. Oh, like- like I'm standing on my left leg, and when I think I have my balance, then I close my eyes.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Powerful man-
Dr. Jared Seigler: A little harder-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh yeah.
Dr. Jared Seigler: [Laughs].
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Because you- you lose the- the visual input, for balance, so you-
Dr. Jared Seigler: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -you're going totally off of the proprioceptors in the ankles essentialy, right?
Dr. Jared Seigler: Yeah. So now, it's your cerebellum versus- vision is about 80% of balance. So the brain-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 80%.
Dr. Jared Seigler: -so the brain's good at- yeah- the brain's good at giving a lot of illusions, you know, it can cover for itself, like, “Oh…”-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.
Dr. Jared Seigler: -“…it's only a problem if you tease it out”. So well as wanna look for a comparison, now we can try the right leg.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: [Pauses]. I'm doing okay, I'm a little shaky, there, there, a little- ugh- there, lost it.
Dr. Jared Seigler: Well, which- uh- it looks like the right's a little harder for you than the left.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It may be, it may be. Sure.
Dr. Jared Seigler: So- so there's maybe a couple ways, so now we think, okay, maybe right cerebellum is the lesion, or the area we're lookin' at. And then-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: When you say lesion, just to be clear, like lesion just made this- that area that’s maybe not up to snap all the way, essentially.
Dr. Jared Seigler: Yeah, it's not like you have a like meningioma or-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -Right.
Dr. Jared Seigler: -tumor, anything like that, yeah. Ah, we definitely don't wanna just like, oh, let's spin and look, and- ignore like-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -Yes.
Dr. Jared Seigler: -a very bad process going on.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.
Dr. Jared Seigler: Uhm, now we're thinking, okay, what are the crossroads that feed into that, you know? Is it more of the spinal cerebellum? So then we might wanna try some poor activation like some dead bugs, sometimes we can do some eye movements, so I'll just have people like follow their thumb, you know, I say like, “Pretend I'm a cop and now we think you might have been drinking”. So we're looking for those smooth pursuits and things like that… so you have the tendency to try to keep it a little bit closer in on your left side. So, but that's okay. Uh, [laughs]. So, that's alright, so now, some things- so we can think of maybe eye movements, the vestibular system feeds into it, so does the puns. So, maybe some things simple we can do, and start gently rubbing the right side of your face. This is what's called cranial nerve 5, it's a lot of facial sensation-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Dr. Jared Seigler: And only think of the brainstem, those are cranial nerves. Eye movements, kind of the step to keep us alive, like, “Hey, where can I put food in my mouth when chew that food-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.
Dr. Jared Seigler: That's all crania nerve 5. Yup.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -Number 5, got it.
Dr. Jared Seigler: Yep, so, 'cause when you're a baby in your mama's belly, the pons and the cerebellum are actually the same tissue, one goes forward, to become part of the brain stem, and one comes back to become the cerebellum. So we wanna try to think, where's the crossroads, what's some of the way to activate that right cerebellum through what's called ___[11:08] neuronal cooling, what fires into that region. So now that we'd maybe been doing that for a little bit, now we play what I call the game. Let's see if you can stand better on your right leg after doing not, or not. [Pauses].
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Definitely better.
Dr. Jared Seigler: Still not maybe a statue but see that's… functional neurology-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Dr. Jared Seigler: -and that's the beauty of it to me, like dude, you just surged my dopamine. That's why I love it 'cause the brain can change like that.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That's very cool.
Dr. Jared Seigler: Yeah, neuroplasticity happened real-time you know, maybe versus like, oh, we'd think of a CRP for a lupus patient, that can take a while for them to maybe quit eating this, and kill this and that, now we start to see them really going in the better direction, maybe over the course of a few weeks and things. But we know, okay, that's your therapy. I used to be a strength coach or kind of a personal trainer that actually knows what they're doing.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: [Laughs] Yeah, yeah.
Dr. Jared Seigler: So that's where I'd say and then they'll start building a list of extra sizes like, okay we've- we've found a way to fire into your right cerebellum, now maybe if that parietal lobe is an issue or the vestibular senses an issue like I feel like I'm spinning or I get nervous, or I don't like loud stuff in my ears, like I see a lot of autistic kids, and they're usually like, you know, they don't like that.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Dr. Jared Seigler: So then we might think, okay, is there maybe head movements. We can do where specific eye movements. Uhm, we just make this thing like games, you know. So, now you have an exercise. Literally I just tell people, “Guess what we're gonna do?”, like it's a- it's that simple.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That's it, that's very cool. So, let's just make- I wanna make sure we take king of people through the general, like, you know, areas that we can look at. So, we have obviously the cortex in the front, right – right or left.
Dr. Jared Seigler: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And what were some of the big things that you would see come up at- on- on that questionnaire that you mentioned?
Dr. Jared Seigler: Uh-huh.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: If there were deficits in those areas?
Dr. Jared Seigler: Yeah, so usually, like uh- trouble with mood regulation-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Jared Seigler: -uhm- a lot of ADD type stuff, you know the old guy that just says run appropriate things?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -Yeah.
Dr. Jared Seigler: Prefrontal cortex is totally shut off, like he, so that's more like uh- you know, I- I do have kind of a sympathy when maybe someone's on the sten and tryin' to know like I couldn't not steal that purse, I think they're absolutely right. ‘Cause that part of the brain may know to themselves like I shouldn't do this, but the part of the brain that says “Don't still the purse”, totally off. Uhm- and so, we start to think about maybe different parts of the prefrontal cortex, orbital frontal, these are maybe people that are more violent, they might have urinary issues too, so they're like hit they're head and now they have bile and bladder incontinence-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Dr. Jared Seigler: -or we may have more of the Dorsolateral, they can't plan, these are the patients, sort of family members they're- they're always late, they- they can't prioritize things, they're like, “Man, we- you- you can't adult”, you know, type thing. Uhm-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -Interesting.
Dr. Jared Seigler: We have motor issues too or maybe people that are like, yeah, you start working out and my right side gets way tirer that are than my left. So then we start to think, well maybe it's the cerebral cortex imbalance, too. And you know, in this left side is more math and this right side is more creativity. So, back to maybe on autistic kid, you have this huge hemisphere imbalance. They're not dumb or anything like that, I don't know another way to phrase it, they're just not good at that social context, I can't read non-verbal cues, I can't get the joke, I can't make eye contact, but then you give 'em math or some science, they're better than like 99% of the rest of people out there. Uhm, you look for a lot of eye movements too, so like, for example the right cortex pushes the eyes to the left –
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -Yeah.
Dr. Jared Seigler: -and the left cortex pushes the eyes to the right. So just have people “boom-boom-boom-boom-boom-boom-boom-boom”. And then you can start to see, one seidel start to slow down… So, and then you can literally- and I'll ask people, “Hey which side was it starting to get harder to look at?”, see like whenever you are trying to go from the left thumb over to the right thumb, you have a tendency to raise your left eyebrow, so we're starting to think you're doing what's called spreading your math. You're trying to compensate for lack of one area, it calls in collateral neurons like, “Hey I can's do this” so, these bodies over here need to help me. So, maybe I'll start moving my head or moving my jaw, you'll like see people like-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -Okay.
Dr. Jared Seigler: You're gonna feel like- no, just your eyes. [Laughs].
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I was feeling it a little bit harder to look over here, so that would- that would correlate with that right cortex then, correct? Is it right?
Dr. Jared Seigler: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: To the left?
Dr. Jared Seigler: Yup, so then whenever we maybe wanna do a therapy on somebody, like uhm- then we might like keep that in there right- or in their left visual field. So that way we're over here more, so if it's like an Alzheimer’s patient for example, and they're like, “Yeah, I have trouble remembering the face, but I can remember the name”. This is more of a face, we'll have them look at faces over here, on that side so we start kind of triangulating through different things like, “Look at this picture”, maybe we'll have purple in the background and just more of the light brain type of color than maybe a red or yellow. So, once you know kind of how to play the game, it really does kind of become very simple, very neat. Uhm, so, we'll start with the cortex and there's different regions there, then we have you know, back to like-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -Okay, we're talking right here, this is the upper part of the brain, and of course, the frontal is like kind of what makes us, us, right? So that's-
Dr. Jared Seigler: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -that's the cortex, and then go ahead, what's the next one?
Dr. Jared Seigler: Yup, and then we'll usually start to look at the motor strips, you know, ‘can someone move, or they coordinate and things like that, and then we'll look at sensory strips which now are getting end of the parietal lobe. The parietal lobe, uhm… is also like left-right discrimination, that's more of the inferior part down through here-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -Yeah.
Dr. Jared Seigler: So, like, one girl, she was uhm at a business function and this guy was trying to impress people like, “Oh, I used to be a tumbl- or whatever in high school, I used to flip the girls in gymnastics and cheerleading”. So, of course she does that and she hits, boom, right here on the back of her left parietal interior lobe. She's like, “I wake up and the whole bar is looking at me.”, that's how loud the thump was. And she's like, “I can't tell my left from my right anymore”. So then they're like, “Oh, there it is”, so- you know, maybe versus uhm, you know, can I do math in their head, can they- uhm- so then we'll start think parietal lobe, then there's like the vestibular system, there's the temporal lobe. Uh, the temporal lobe does a lot of regulation of things too. Like for example whenever we look at violent offenders, and maybe people that have been through a lot of PTSD and things, they usually have a right temporal lobe deficit. They can't regulate- uhm- motions anymore. We start to look at the vestibular system too, that one's really big 'cause most people think of dizziness is the main complaint or the vestibular system. But that's actually anxiety. Anxiety is the number one issue. Uhm- because of the- the vestibular system suppress this what's called your limbic response. And that's a lot of the negative emotions correlated with survival, “Am I afraid of something, am I angry about something”. So, when I see people with all these limbic responses I think, “Oh, man, we really got to look at their brain, they're just set off like that. Uhm, [laughs] that's a whole another conversation though. Uhm, yeah, we start to think about that, uhm- the brainstem to me is huge too, because like when we think about maybe something like the basal ganglia, that's kind of like this- we have two like mohawks that run along each side of the brain, and there's a couple different pathways of the basal ganglia, one of it is “Do this motion”, like shake someone's hand, but don't just shake- don't just push your hand out there so hard, you know, punching them in the face. So then there's- that's what's called the direct us- that do, do this. And then there's the “Don't do this”, the indirect, so that shades a little bit off what we say. So, that way I'm talking to you, I'm not screening at you.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mmm.
Dr. Jared Seigler: So, usually think of the basal ganglia with Parkinson’s, you know, 'cause this is like, “I don't want my hand to shake tight thing”.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.
Dr. Jared Seigler: Yeah, so-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.
Dr. Jared Seigler: So, basal ganglia's fed by a part of the brainstem called the mesencephalon. So, and that's fed by a lot of eye movements, and this would be the people with the masked face, so back-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.
Dr. Jared Seigler: -to like, we'll have them do ___[19:28].
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: [Crosstalk].
Dr. Jared Seigler: Yup, so we'll actually have them maybe do like, uhm- like reflexively move their eyes, 'cause you ask them to look up, they can't, they can't look their eyes up, so they- they'll have to look up, yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.
Dr. Jared Seigler: Then we'll have them reflexively like make their eyes bounce up to what's called OPK, their Optokinetics.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.
Dr. Jared Seigler: Kind of like- [crosstalk]-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …right? Like the-
Dr. Jared Seigler: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Little red white and strips and you pull 'em up and you have 'em follow their eyes and- as you go it through it, right?
Dr. Jared Seigler: Yup, yup. So, I just say, think of it like you're driving by a picket fence, your body- your eyes automatically-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Dr. Jared Seigler: -trying to find a new target, and you're just like, “Ting…”-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.
Dr. Jared Seigler: -“…ding, ding, ding”. Yup, so, uhm- reflexes are always stronger than thinking about doing it. So if somebody can't volitionally do something, we'll just go a step deeper, and we'll just hit it within it with reflex. Uhm, so-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, with a lot of this neurological issues like what do you see is the root cause? I mean, let's just like take out like, alright, a car accident or a physical trauma, right? Uhm, I mean, it- it- is a lot of it more autoimmune, is a lot of it is a functional medicine, which I- autoimmune is the functional medicine gut, nutrition, inflammation, gluten, is it all of that? So, I'm just trying to look at- okay, if I do this eye things, how is that root cause outside of the- you know, its stimulation-
Dr. Jared Seigler: -Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -to the part of the brain which may help it grow and, you get bigger like you said muscles for, you know, exercise for your muscles, the protein is the metabolic, what's the root cause and- and- can- can you break that down?
Dr. Jared Seigler: Yeah. Uhm all things being equal, so uh- one of my favorite mentors is Dr. ___[21:03], and he's what's part of what's called the ___[21:05] project. Well there's only like 4- I believe 4 uhm, kind of ways that they can actually measure the brain's function real-time in the entire planet. And I asked them the same question, ‘”What's usually degrading people's brains?”. Without hesitation he said stress and negative relationships. He didn't talk about food, I mean, don't get me wrong, that's looks bad, this glycemia, like-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Dr. Jared Seigler: -we're- if we're gonna develop Alzheimer’s, we're doing it right now.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.
Dr. Jared Seigler: ‘Cause it takes 60 years for the brain breakdown enough to where now I don't know who I'm talking to, and then like, “I forgot to put pants on”, type thing.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, exactly.
Dr. Jared Seigler: Stress will always do it, and stress can come in many forms: toxins, like glyphosate, metals, which run rampant, and- blood sugar imbalances, people getting shaky, between meals, people getting tired between meals, huge, huge problem. And I'm glad you brought up autoimmunity, what Dr. ___[22:01] found, you know, big nerves, and you know, I just-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah?
Dr. Jared Seigler: 98% of people have auto or soft antibodies to bring tissue. It only really becomes a problem when that blood brain barrier is broken.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mmm…
Dr. Jared Seigler: So now, basically, walking around with neuro autoimmunity, we just don't know it, like I see a ton of POTS people. Like it's a ___[22:22], it's everywhere now.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.
Dr. Jared Seigler: Uhm, and there is a reason for that. That's an autoimmune disease. So, now the brain can't regulate the heart rate when someone's stands up, or they go shopping, and they just “Boom”-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Dr. Jared Seigler: -pass out, hit their head. Uhm, so, from a root cause analysis we see a lot of things stemming from the gut, obviously infections, like Parkinson's, we know now that those toxins will walk their way up the vagal nerve into the brain stem.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.
Dr. Jared Seigler: Smelling a lot of bad stuff too. Uh, blood sugar issues, chemicals and foods, uh, Wi-Fi, is actually extremely problematic like we see a lot of molds degrading the brain, like at an alarming rate actually. Uh, what they did, uh- with- a- all neurological antibodies to the brain, here was like, “Okay, here is the autoimmunity before. Let's expose them, sky rocketed it it”. The amount of how the immune system started to attack the brain is just crazy high after that. Uhm-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, very interesting.
Dr. Jared Seigler: But, yeah- so that's where when the we course, we do and to take that functional medicine approach. ‘Cause back to like, you know, you stroking the side of your face-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.
Dr. Jared Seigler: -to stand better, it feels like drinking alcohol every night to cope with the poor relationship. Who gives a crap about stroking a side of your face, you can stand better-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That's right.
Dr. Jared Seigler: Yes. Seriously, big issues-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Dr. Jared Seigler: -going on.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Dr. Jared Seigler: Yeah, so- I'm from Oklahoma, we would call it “Farting in a tornado”, you ain't gonna do a lot.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah [laughs] that totally makes sense, yeah, exactly. I- Boston we're on from they call a “Pissing in the winds”. So, I- I- I totally [giggles]- I totally-
Dr. Jared Seigler: [Crosstalk]
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Which is what you were saying then.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: They'll do what you're saying then. Also, you said- mentioned a couple things about this glycemia and blood sugar imbalance which I think are really important. But there's also a lot of stuff out there which I posted a lot of content on it too on intermittent fasting being so beneficial. So if you had this glycemia and you started be de-porpriating more intermittent fasting, could that exacerbate these per- these person's symptoms more?
Dr. Jared Seigler: It can. Uhm- I'm after big thing called metabolic flexibility. I know everyone uh- and ketosis can totally be good. We utilize that dietary tool-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Dr. Jared Seigler: -all the time. But if somebody can't miss a meal, and we're like, “Hey, you're gonna go 16 hours without eating”, their cortisol's gonna shoot up sky high, they're gonna start degrading the brain even faster.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.
Dr. Jared Seigler: So, usually we'll have to get them to the point the can miss a meal.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right. It's kinda like, someone that can barely walk and you're like, “Yeah I want you to go run a marathon right now”, that's the equivalent of like an intermittent fasting episodes, essentially.
Dr. Jared Seigler: Basically, yeah. So, we'll get them to the point like, “Hey I was able to- you know, ___[24:54] once a little that day doc, and I did it like snap, get back in the office, I think good”. Now we can-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -Get better.
Dr. Jared Seigler: -to utilize different tools, yeah. So we obviously, you know, you work with a lot of patients too. We have to do the right thing at the right time. ‘Cause, what we don't wanna do is push someone so fast, we push them over.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right. So, you want your body to be more metabolically flexible, but it may take a few months, nutrients, some things, some- you know, redu- reduction of stress, cortisol, those kind of things to get you to that point where you could start to move in that direction essentially.
Dr. Jared Seigler: Yeah, absolutely.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And it's interesting, 'cause you see a lot of people that aren't practitioners and- and they kinda have this panacea approach, where this thing has to be it, and if you can't do it, you're doing it wrong. And I think as a clinician, we can look at it and just say, “Well, no, it's just… you're here, you're telling me we gotta get to the heart. And if I can't make that jump all at once, then, you know, there's probably some baby steps we have to make in between to get you there, to test pad. Does that make sense?
Dr. Jared Seigler: Yeah, absolutely. And that's where uhm- the internet can be a double-edged sword, because what worked for you probably won't work for me.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.
Dr. Jared Seigler: Even though we're both white boys, even though-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: [Laughs]
Dr. Jared Seigler: -we look different on the outside-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Dr. Jared Seigler: – we're more than a hundred times different on the inside, I can guarantee it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.
Dr. Jared Seigler: So, that's where, you know, when something works for one person, they usually extrapolate that and think, “Okay, well, this worked for me, now it'll work for everybody”.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.
Dr. Jared Seigler: And- uhm- you know, we've obviously seen that's not the case. You know, 'cause 2 people may be trying to do the same thing, even though they're maybe have the same label, like all old-timers. And one person gets better but the other person- they just start degrading faster and faster and faster.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes. I had a patient just before I got on the phone with you here, where d- we started this person on kind if like a ketogenic paleo template for the fisrt couple of months to care, he's really well, really good improvements in- in acid reflux, I mean he hit some parasites and some other issues, we cleaned that up, but then there was a pointy kinda hit the wall, and the sleep wasn't get enough much better, he's- he's about 50% better, and- and then we just started adding a little bit more carbs in at night time. And-
Dr. Jared Seigler: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -magically a sleep started to improve and he can sleep throughout the night. So, there's some- like metabolic shifting that happens where what works maybe in the beginning of care may have to be tweaked as you continue to progress your care.
Dr. Jared Seigler: Yeah. I always do try to think about like when we think of a ketogenic paleo type thing, I don't know about you, but if I happen to stumble across like a peach tree, I'm gonna eat a ton of peaches.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: [Laughs] yeah. Exactly.
Dr. Jared Seigler: That's where- yeah, that's where I think carbs cycling usually works better-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Dr. Jared Seigler: -than maybe straight ketosis. The only way I've seen ketosis work in long term is if people are just dumping ketones down the hatch. They have-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes
Dr. Jared Seigler: -to supplement, they're never gonna make it, especially women. Uhm- that's where I think of that metabolic flexibility, our body was designed to use protein as energy, use carbs as energy, use fat as energy-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Dr. Jared Seigler: -use nothing for energy if just suck at hunting and gathering, and we didn't get anything that day-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right, right. Exactly-
Dr. Jared Seigler: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -that makes a lot of sense. You gave me some great-great knowledge bombs here. Just to give people uh- you know. general overview of what you do on the functional neuro side. Is there anything else you can do just to make quick at home assessment on me, that maybe someone can look at in themselves and then, maybe apply in exercises too. Is there anything else we can do here as a work through?
Dr. Jared Seigler: Yeah, uhm- one other thing, so with the premise of functional neurology, it's basically do what you suck at.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Dr. Jared Seigler: That's kind of one of the general rule of thumbs. And maybe if like back to balancing, it might be hard to try to sit there and keep balancing and balancing, and balancing, but you've gotta try, 'cause if you don't use it, you'll lose it. So that's where like-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So it's essentially- I should be trying to do, like stance like this during the day with my eyes closed-
Dr. Jared Seigler: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -with one each side essentially.
Dr. Jared Seigler: Yeah, kind of. And since we're thinking about the cerebellum, we're thinking about the foot, like if you're to get on like a rebounder or something-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Dr. Jared Seigler: -then I'd say like, get a vibration sense, like maybe have your wife just start tapping it by your foot, “babababababa”.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Dr. Jared Seigler: And that's sending a ton of proprioceptive input-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Dr. Jared Seigler: -to that regions. See how you kind of lost it?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.
Dr. Jared Seigler: So that's where I would say it's kind of like riding a bike, you gotta keep practicing, and practicing, and practicing, until you can-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Dr. Jared Seigler: -do it, and go 30 years without riding a bike and still remember. That fancy word is called long-term potentiation.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Dr. Jared Seigler: Meaning-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.
Dr. Jared Seigler: -that those connections of stuck around, and now we don't have to maybe keep rubbing the side of our face. So, something that you could do for example, to be- after you stop rubbing the side of your face, that's when I would say, now you wanna do your balance exercises 'cause we've activated that part of the brain, so now we wanna re-map it through that proprioceptive input. We can do that through vibrations like a hundred and twenty eight hertz tuning fork, I know you still got it from school-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh yeah. It's hiding here.
Dr. Jared Seigler: -I'd take the best 8 dollars for functional neurology ever. Oh, my gosh, I'd tell- I'd even tell people like “Just go buy this, it's on Amazon for like 8 bucks”. Like my chronic migraine, TMJ people would start [mimics tuning fork buzz] and, putting that on different places on their body and maybe put them through an active range of motion, they love it, they can't get enough.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very good, yeah, I'm excited, I wanna do your functional neurology course even though this one's meant more for patients. I know you said you will be coming out with the doctors one at some point. I'm giving you a little- little push there to do that 'cause I'm excited for that. But yes, sign me up for your patient course and I'm gonna- definitely get this out to my listeners and this is I think really invaluable information. Is there anything else we can apply right now to me that we can also- that listeners can look at? So- so you said like, okay, this stuff, like the one leg stuff, I get that, like-
Dr. Jared Seigler: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -stroking of the face, and you were able to assess that off of which leg, what I couldn't
Dr. Jared Seigler: Yup.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -balance out off of, and then also we did the eye thing, and it was like which one do you feel like is the harder-
Dr. Jared Seigler: Yup. So, for example if you have trouble looking off to the left, maybe you can start it midline and just go little bit, you know, like, you're not gonna bench press 300 lbs. the first time you go in, you gotta work up to it. So, say, maybe we'll go here, and then as you get better, we can go here, then as you get better, we can go here, and then keep going. And so you reach what's called fatigability. You start to notice like man, I'm raising my eyebrow and trying to move my head instead of move my eyes, it's like a set of bench press: stop, rest, wait for the next set, you gotta save it 'cause if you start doing it wrong, you just gotta call in those quilateral neurons that you were already trying to [crosstalk].
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …the jaw, your eyebrow, right, tho- some of these muscles here, right?
Dr. Jared Seigler: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: ___[31:19].
Dr. Jared Seigler: Yeah, and then, uhm- kind of the big thing for the people that have inhibition control, we call them Antisaccades. So that's where someone holds their thumbs up, we'd say look at the thumb that doesn't move. So, I'll have people like, look at my nose, and then-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Dr. Jared Seigler: -I'll say look at the thumb that doesn't move. And then ugh, see you looked at the one that moves.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh yeah, yeah.
Dr. Jared Seigler: So you have to say don't look at that- that-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Dr. Jared Seigler: -don't- halfway is, don't steal the purse, don't hit the Timmy, don't do this. So we'll end- like- we'll see this on a ton of ADD kids. Ad, I like- I can see them, they're practically sweating trying to not look at the thumb that moved.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.
Dr. Jared Seigler: So, yeah. So, that's where we'll provide a stimulus like uhm- red light, green light is a good game and you'll have them focus on the red light like teach that brain how to make them stop. And then to focus back on the ADHD, 'cause I know we only have a little bit of more time, we wanna have them count to 5. Say they look at the thumb that doesn't move, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 'cause you tell your brains stem, “Actually look at that, really focus. Don't just look at it bounce around”. ‘Cause if you noticed me talk to people, their eyes are usually all over the place. They can't even focus one stimulus for that long at all. How can we expect them to focus on math, or longer than that?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I understand. So, if I like don't have your assessment yet, right? And I'm like, “Hey I want it even better more neurologically” like, what are those top 3 things, is it literally the ankle stuff, is it going back and forth with the eyes, is like- w-
Dr. Jared Seigler: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -what are those little things that can do it and how long? How long does a ___[32:50] look? 10 seconds, 30 seconds, and then how much of it rest?
Dr. Jared Seigler: Yeah it can depend for that fatigability like if people can only maybe do like 5 or 6 Saccades, or look to a target then I say 5 or 6 it is, and I usually have people do that like 4 or 5 times a day. Like, “Hey, you know you're going to the bathroom, that way you don't look weird and frightened your co-workers like just “Boom-boom-boom-boom-boom-boom-boom”, you know. Uhm- so, eye movements are good but all things being equal, through exercise, like true exercise, having a goal for that exercise, like my Parkinson's patients I just try to tell them that you're gonna preserve your brain-brain better by [inhaling-exhaling] everyday, than just doing some eye movements looking at some OPK tape and maybe working on your balance uhm- gratitude is probably the biggest thing, we give people journals. So actually, having something you're grateful for, 'cause if we wanna like maybe hit direct blood flow to the prefrontal cortex we have to get out of that stress response.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, the gratitude is like forward looking like, I'm thankful for all these things right now here-
Dr. Jared Seigler: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …brain stem, fight or flight your back here, essentially.
Dr. Jared Seigler: Yeah, yeah. Blood flow is huge. Uhm-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Shifting that blood flow by what part of the brain's you're activating essentially?
Dr. Jared Seigler: Mm-hmm. Yeah, ___[34:06], if- if you or someone you know is actively having strokes, please don't try to start doing functional neurology-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.
Dr. Jared Seigler: -we will change blood flow to different regions of the brain, and the last thing we wanna do is blow another pipe out, yeah, absolutely.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay. That make sense.
Dr. Jared Seigler: And I would say gargling. We're so sympathetic-drive, we have to get back in that rest and digest. So when we think of about blood flow and someone's stressed out, basically below their diet rim shuts off. We're not gonna digest food, the liver's not gonna detoxify, ovaries and testes aren't gonna make sex hormones, 'cause those things aren't important for survival right now.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, gargling. Couldn't we also do more nasal breathing? You know, focus on more nasal?
Dr. Jared Seigler: Yeah. Yeah that- breathing through the diaphragm? Mm-hmm. Uhm- and then when we think about a breath count, uhm- kind of the command center for the vagus nerve is called the nucleus tractus solitarius, I know, big words, uhm- but that's where we'll do a 4-8, 4 breath count. In for 4, through the nose out for 8 through the nose, count for 4 before you breathe in again. ‘Cause our autonomics, if I say “Control your pupil dilation and your blood pressure”, you can't do that, but you can control your breath. So that's kind of our window in to our autonomics.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So it's 4 in, then pause for 4, then 8 out? Or is it 4 in then 8 out and pause 4?
Dr. Jared Seigler: Yup, 4 in, 8 out, pause 4.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wonderful, that's great! Yeah, awesome. I'm gonna put the links for the course, for the listeners here below, uhm, and do you know when course live Dr. Jared?
Dr. Jared Seigler: We were trying to shoot for mid-March, I gotta shoot a couple more videos and then get it nice and pretty. I- I'm not the one that's like, “Hey, let's make it a pdf, and let's make it uh- I'm more- I'm left brain dominant man, creativity is not my suite, so- that's where we have the right people to do that, but yeah, we're looking at definitely get it out sooner rather than later.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, please email me and let me know. I wanna be a part of that course as well, I think this information's phenomenal. And then we'll make sure, at this- if this video comes out too soon before the course, I will make sure the links are- are updated as things come live. So make sure you get those out to me, we'll make sure our listeners get it. I think this is amazing information, your website is becomeproof.com, part of the living truth institute, that's the easy URL. There are any other ways the listeners can get in touch with you?
Dr. Jared Seigler: Yeah, I'm on Facebook. Uh, just look at my name Jared Seigler, I think there's two of us, I'm the one that looks like me so, that makes it simple [laughs].
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: [Laughs]. That's an easy one, I love it. Anything else Dr. Jared?
Dr. Jared Seigler: Uh, just figure out a- gratitude, you know, it's easier to be nice to somebody than mean. So, that's just what I found in this life If we're grateful for what we have, then that's a big step 'cause if we don't appreciate what we have, we'll never be grateful for what we get.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It's so much easier to say, “Hey, be grateful” versus, “Hey, activate that blood flow to that frontal cortex”, it just sounds so much nicer saying it that way.
Dr. Jared Seigler: It is. I try to keep things like my dad told me, “Keep it simple, stupid”. [Laughs]
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That's it, that's it man. Awesome Jared. Well, I appreciate your- your time and- and massive knowledge bombs you dropped here today. Thank you so much and you have an awesome day. We'll talk soon!
Dr. Jared Seigler: Thanks for having me. Everyone have a great day!
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Thank you!
References:
https://thelivingproofinstitute.com/
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