How Sugar Feeds Illness

 How Sugar Feeds Illness

How Sugar Feeds Illness

By Dr. Justin Marchegiani

America takes first place… as the top consumer of dietary sugar in the world. Our sugar consumption is a major player behind the skyrocketing rates of chronic diseases like diabetes, obesity, and cancer. The average American now consumes an average of 130 grams of sugar per dayfor reference, the daily recommendation for women is a maximum of 20 grams a day! This is more than just sad: it’s dangerous. Today we are going to outline some of the effects of sugar on our immediate and long-term health.

What is Sugar?

What is Sugar

This might seem obvious, but food producers are getting craftier with their labeling as they realize more and more people are making the choice to eat healthier. Sugar goes by many names, with new ones popping up all the time. Some sugars are natural, most are processed, and more and more are being created in labs. Here are just a few names to look out for on product labels:

  • Agave
  • Brown sugar
  • Corn sweetener
  • Corn syrup
  • Fruit juice concentrates
  • High fructose corn syrup
  • Honey (raw, pasteurized)
  • Invert sugar
  • Malt sugar
  • Molasses
  • Raw sugar
  • Sugar
  • Sugar molecules ending in “-ose” (dextrose, fructose, glucose, lactose, maltose, sucrose)
  • Syrup

Click here to consult with a functional medicine doctor and discuss underlying health issues preventing you from living your best life!

What About Fruit?

Yes, fruit technically contains sugar, in the form of fructose. However, there is a big difference between enjoying a piece of fruit as an after-dinner treat, versus having orange juice with breakfast and fruit juices as your beverage of choice throughout the day. Studies have shown that eating fruit whole can lower risk of developing type 2 diabetes, drinking fruit actually increases your risk! The fiber you get from eating fruit whole slows the absorption of the sugar and keeps the glycemic index low. Plus, it takes a lot more squeezed fruit to fill a glass than you could possibly eat in a serving, meaning you’re consuming way more sugar than you realize!

The Effects of Sugar

The Effects Of Sugar

Consuming large quantities of sugar has been linked to an increased risk of a variety of chronic diseases including obesity, cardiovascular disease, diabetes and non-alcoholic fatty liver disease (NAFLD) as well as cognitive decline and even some cancers!

There are also many health issues caused by sugar that aren’t as talked about:

Sugar depletes the body of critical electrolytes, antioxidants, and minerals, which leads to cell death, muscle spasms, insulin resistance, and other health defects. Its effects on the immune system leave you prone to getting sick more often and more severely.

Sugar feeds bacteria and parasites, like yeast and Candida. It also depletes the body of good gut bacteria, promoting Leaky Gut and other gut infections. Chronic pain, vision problems, and even wrinkles can be worsened by sugar!

Sugar causes chronic inflammation in the body, and inflammation is said to be the root cause of almost all disease.

How Sugar Feeds Cancer

Sugar consumption has been proved to feed cancer cells and speed up the growth of tumors. Too much sugar consumption causes insulin resistance, as well as a specific protein to be released from your pancreas. This protein causes your cells to replicate and become immortal, which is how pre-cancerous cells can begin to take over.

Cancer cells prefer glucose over oxygen, but our mitochondria can’t use the glucose as energy. White blood cells are our immune system’s soldiers, and need vitamin C to function properly. A cancer patient needs lots of healthy white blood cells to fight the disease, however, sugar blocks the absorption of vitamin C in our bloodstream, weakening our immune system.

In summary, sugar causes cancer cells to reproduce and thrive, and blocks the mechanisms that would slow down or kill cancer cells and tumors.


Sugar addiction runs deep, and can be hard to kick. Stay tuned for Dr. J’s thoughts on artificial sweeteners, approaches to beating sugar addiction, and healthy alternatives for sugar.

Click here to talk to a functional medicine doctor about staying healthy this holiday season!

Depression Solution – Dr. J. Live Podcast #158

Dr. Justin Marchegiani and Evan Brand talk about depression and anxiety. Listen as they discuss some of the possible root cause of such condition. Understand the mechanism of depression and anxiety medications and learn why they may not be the best possible solution to the problem.

Gain an understanding on how diet, especially a vegan diet, becomes an important factor when dealing with depression. Explore how gut infections relate to depression and anxiety symptoms and know some of the natural solutions and recommendations in addressing depression and anxiety.

In this episode, we cover:Depression and Anxiety solutions

00:56   Medications mechanism

03:40   Vegetarian Diet and Depression

05:41   Gut Infections and Depression

14:00   Natural Solutions

18:18   Low Thyroid and Mood Issues





Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey guys! It’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani here. Hey Evan, how are we doing today, man?

Evan Brand: Hey man, I am great. We had a fun off-air chat. So I’m excited to chat with you about this important topic today— depression, anxiety, you know, mental health in general. But we’re gonna—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Evan Brand: ..specifically focus on depression, anxiety. As I was telling you, the center for disease control, they change the ranking over the past couple years. Now depression is the number one leading cause of disability. It’s actually grown over heart disease. It used to be heart disease was number one. Now depression is number one leading cause of disability. So that’s pretty alarming. I predicted this about four- five years ago I could just see the trend of society and now, it’s happened and it’s official.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. Depression is really important because a lot of the medications that are out there. I’m just gonna pull out my little Bluetooth headset here—all the medications that are out there, typically, only treat the symptoms. So you kinda have medication from like the 80’s called tricyclics, right? And these tended to—to work with a little a side effects that a lot of the current days SSRI’s or SSNRI’s, right? These are medications that work on blocking the reuptake of serotonin and norepinephrine or dopamine. And essentially it’s allowing more neurotransmitters to sit in between the pre- and the postsynaptic neuron. So neuron—neuron, pre-post- right? Before, after and then you have all this in between area called the synaptic cleft or the uhm—essentially that’s where a lot of the neurotransmitters would hangout. The longer those guys hang out in that area, typically, what happens is you’re gonna have uhm—a recycling of those neurotransmitters at a higher level. So the longer those neurotransmitters sit in that neuro- synaptic cleft there, the faster they get broken down. So that’s why over time, a lot of antidepressant medications have to go up because of the fact that those met—those chemicals are being broken down at a much faster rate. Does that make sense?

Evan Brand: Yup.  Well, the problem is, too, these medications they’re not addressing the root cause now. I know in some cases, they could be life saving therapies because they pull people out of a super deep depression or maybe they were suicidal. But as time and time goes on, the percentage used to be 80% of serotonin was coming from the gut and then it jumped up to 85 or 90% and then now, I keep seeing new literature coming out that the percentage is almost close to hundred percent now of serotonin from the gut. So we really have to address any gut infections we have to test for those, we have to find them, we have to fix them. If we really want to get to the root cause, the brain, of course, is a factor, but man, the gut seems like the biggest factor to me.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, it’s a major factor. And again, uh— one of the listeners here in the live chat brought up a lot of the shootings that have been happening recently. Yeah, these medications have a black label-warning, black box warning on them for suicidal tendencies, violent acts, these kinds of things. So it can really alter someone’s physiology and biochemistry were it may predispose them to—to these kind of violent act. So, again, I look at these type medications really only being used in a life or death kind of, “Hey, we’re gonna get this person stabilize so that  they don’t do something that they’re gonna regret.” But then we have to work on getting them off these medications and get to the root cause.

Evan Brand: Yup. Well said.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And that really has to be the end goal. We need to have a transitional goal in mind so we can get to the root cause whether we start adding in specific amino acids, amino acid therapy. A lot of these neurotransmitters they come from amino acids. So there’s kind of just like the replacement model of, “Hey, let’s add more amino acids into buildup serotonin and dopamine in the brain so you feel better.” There’s that component, right? And that may be really important especially if you have a lot of malabsorption, like you’re not breaking down proteins and fats, you have low stomach acid or enzymes. It may also be important like you’re a vegetarian or vegan and you’re not getting enough of these high-quality proteins and animal source which tend to be the most nutrient dense. So there’s a lot of different things that may drive that from an amino acid perspective. And you talk about 90+ percent in the gut. The question is, “Can that serotonin cross the blood brain barrier?” I’m not sure we know if it can. From what I understand, it can’t. But uhm—a lot of the precursor amino acids like tryptophan, and/ or 5-ACP can cross the blood brain barrier.

Evan Brand: Uh—got it. Okay. I guess, so you brought the vegetarian/vegan point. This is huge. You and I both work with so many vegetarians and vegans and sometimes, they’re just not willing to add-in things to the diet. So whether it’s like egg or even fish, they just don’t want to add it in. And I’ve seen the most depression anxiety problems from vegetarian and vegan. So I wouldn’t even say it’s like just a coincidence anymore. I mean I’ve seen it so often that it’s just—it’s it’s— gotta be causation in this— in this aspect.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, you’re gonna always get higher quality amino acids, proteins from animal products. It’s just how it is. Uhm—you’re not to get a whole bunch of anti-nutrients with them, right? The way animals defend themselves with teeth and with claws. The plants defend themselves are with anti-nutrients, compounds that make it harder to break down uhm—their constituents. The lectins, phytates, mineral blockers, anti-nutrients. They make it hard to break down some of these plant. That’s how plants kind of survive, right? Animals survive through uh—claws, and being able to run, fight and flee. But once you have an animal, right? Once you already killed it and you get that meat in the table, it’s not gonna  possess the same amount of anti-nutrients. And it tends to also have just pure protein and fat where a lot of the plant-based proteins are gonna have a whole bunch of carbohydrate along with it. Unless you’re doing like a pea protein powder or rice protein powder where the starch component has already been removed from the proteins.

Evan Brand: Yup. Yup. Well said. Uhm—let’s talk about some of the gut infections. How this could relate into depression, anxiety symptoms. We could talk about H. pylori. We had a question about that, too. So, we’ll go ahead and address it. How can H. pylori cause depression? We know that it’s gonna reduce stomach acid. If it’s reducing stomach acid, even if you are eating those good quality organic pastured animal proteins, you’re not gonna digest those. So you’re gonna have undigested food particles creating the leaky gut situation that can stress out the liver. We know there’s a link between mood issues and the liver. Sometimes it’s fatigue, sometimes depression, sometimes anger, irritability uh—things like that. And then you’ve got the aspect of the aminos. So I just already hit on. If you’re not digesting these proteins, that first domino could be affected all because of your low HCl production due to the H. pylori then all the sudden, you have no amino acids. Now, you’ve got no raw materials to manufacture neurotransmitters. So this is huge.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Hundred percent. So—so there’s a couple different components, right? Dan writes, “Can H. pylori cause depression?” Yeah. Well, number one, it’s gonna do it by a couple different ways. Number one, it’s gonna lower stomach acid and enzyme levels which make it harder to break down proteins and healthy fats which you know, fats tend to be a really important building block for the brain. And the proteins tend to be the building blocks for the neurotransmitters. So if we have decrease in the raw material of the brain, right? And we have decrease in the neurotransmitter raw material, then we’re gonna have issues with optimal mood health, for sure. Number two, is a lot of the uhm—bacterial components of H. pylori have what I call lipopolysaccharide or endotoxins, which can cause depression by itself. It does it through going to the brain and creating inflammation to the brain. It passes through the gut junctions, creates leaky gut, goes to the brain creates inflammation and create mood issues in the brain. It also can uhm—it also can just create leaky gut and which can increase the immune system. And when the immune system is kinda over reactive, it  can suck up a lot of energy. And when your energy is lower, it tend to have more likelihood of being depressed and being anxious. Typically, lower energy and depression tend to come hand-in-hand.

Evan Brand: Yup.  I had H. pylori have multiple parasites. So we had a question from Dawn. He was asking what parasites are the most destructive and what parasites would cause the most amount of depression. I don’t know if we can rank it like that 1-2-3. Number one is gonna cause the most depression but I know when I had Giardia and I had cryptosporidium, I had weight loss, I had H. pylori, I had fungus, I had Candida, I had SIBO, you know, pseudomonas and bacterial infections. I was just very, very, you know, not right in the head. My sleep was off which then affect my energy, which then affected my mood. So it’s hard to say like was it chicken or egg. These parasites cause depression or was it the fact that my sleep was disrupted, therefore I wasn’t actually waking up rested. And that made me tired and depressed. Uhm— Justin, do you have any comments to add about that, like parasites, could you rank them at all, saying crypto or Giardia’s worst than dientomoeba or blasto in terms of the amount of depression it creates?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, I would definitely say you—your parasites that are tending to cause more problems because they tend to be a little bit more endemic. They tend to cause more information. But regarding in which ones, it’s hard to say. I’ve seen people have other parasitic infections that cause more problems uhm— than what they typically say on paper. Like some people have uhm— Dientamoeba fragilis but that’s typically one that may not cause a lot of symptoms. So the question is, well, why did it cause a lot of symptoms for you and not the other person. So, again, things like histo and crypto, it tend to cause more problems, but sometimes you may have a less virulent type of parasite infection and it may cause just as many issues for you. So the question is if you have an infection and you have symptoms, especially if you have  an infection and you have digestive symptoms, we got out work on getting the digestion better and then fixing the infections next.

Evan Brand: Yup. Well said. So we have a question about “Is it possible to for your partner to give you a parasite or if it enters your body while your system fight it off?”  The literature is not clear on parasitic infections. Now Justin can tell you about like some of the correlations we’ve seen where partners have infections. We know 100% H. pylori is passed all the time. 90% of the time, I have someone that shows up with H. pylori, the spouse eventually has to get involved. We have to get them tested and we end up having to create a protocol for them, too, because I’ve had people where we create a protocol, the H. pylori’s gone on the retest of the stool and then the symptoms come back a few months later. We do another stool test, then all of a sudden H. pylori’s back again like what the hell happened. Typically it’s the partners. So then we have to get the spouse, boyfriend, girlfriend tested. They usually are the source and also we create a protocol for both of them and all of a sudden they get better. Now parasites, though, I don’t know. Justin,  what’s your thoughts on passing all the parasites you know, kinda back and forth between each other? What have you seen?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I think that’s a 100% probable. We see it a lot with our chronically ill patients that tend to get reinfected over and over. That’s a factor that we always look at to make sure we get the partner, the spouse addressed coz you can definitely pass it back and forth. And I’m more worried about the inflammation, I’m more worried about leaky gut, I’m more worried about the LPS and the endotoxins making the way to the brain and creating inflammation and symptoms there. I’m also worried about just of the maldigestion, not breaking things down well not having enough stomach acid, enzymes, bile salts. So just affecting the digestion, number one. Affecting the leaky gut, number two. And then eventually making its way to the brain. Leaky gut will also cause leaky brain and that could also create more symptoms as well.

Evan Brand: Yup. Well said.  I mean the leaky brain thing, most people don’t talk about it. I think we’ve— we’ve hit or— we’ve hit on that topic on many episodes but I don’t think we’ve done a full one. So maybe we should add that to the list. The whole leaky brain episode. But, people, you do want to realize, if you have leaky gut and this could just be caused from non-celiac gluten sensitivity. If you’re eating gluten, we know that’s creating the leaky gut situation. That’s creating leaky brain. If you take a GABA supplement and you get relaxed from it, you have a leaky brain. And that’s not good. Because then you’re sitting in traffic, you’re breathing in diesel fumes and other pollutants. That stuff is having direct access through the blood brain barrier, which normally would protect you so that the integrity of that barrier is super important. Uhm—there’s another question here about depression. Could it be caused because of a lack of dopamine? Is supplementing with tyrosine sufficient enough to help depressive moods? Yes and no. The thing with the amino acids is it’s like a spider web. So if you do start modifying serotonin, things can get messed up with dopamine. If you just start pounding L-tyrosine, that doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s gonna fix your problem either. So, really, you wanna get organic acids test first and figure out what’s going on coz we can measure dopamine. A lot of people think they have low dopamine but it’s actually too low serotonin or some people have low serotonin and they think that it’s that. But it’s actually not. It’s actually low dopamine instead. So, vice versa. I hope that made sense. But across the board, you could be low in GABA, you could be low in your catecholamines, you could be low with your norepinephrine, epinephrine, you could be lower cortisol. So even cortisol can be a component of depression because if you’ve got adrenal problems, that cortisol rhythm is too low, your batteries aren’t charged or you’ve got too high cortisol, or your cortisol is all over the place fluctuating high and low, which could all be due to these infections. That’s the perfect recipe for depression. So tyrosine may or may not be the solution for you.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. And I have one article here. It talks about dietary proteins having a substantial effect on the composition of gut bacteria. And they talked about for instance, suggestion of intake of dairy and meat protein at recommended level may be beneficial to maintain balance composition of gut bacteria compare with soy protein. Now, again, some of the studies are rat-based so it’s not gonna be a direct correlation, but having a healthy gut bacterial level may decrease some of that gram-negative bacteria which is some of the not so nice uhm—bacteria that tend to cause more of the LPS, right? The lipopolysaccharide and endotoxin. So if we can get the gut bacteria more in the balance, that may decrease the LPS, help with healthier gut integrity, help with less LPS getting into the brain, which creates a mood issues that way, too.

Evan Brand: Yup. So did you want to go into some of the natural solutions now? I mean, we’ve hit on neurotransmitters a bit. We hit on infection, so finding and fixing those. What about some of the free stuff, like just exercise alone just increasing BDNF, getting the movement, getting the blood going. I mean that’s huge.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.

Evan Brand: I mean exercise has change my life.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I would say that the BDNF, the Brain Derived Neurotropic Factor really helps with mood, helps with healthy, uhm— myelination, improvement of brain building uh—keep staying away from grains is really important because that can decrease blood flow up the garden hose. It’s called the carotid artery to the brain. If we decrease blood flow, we’re gonna, one, not be able clear out inflammation as well. We’re also not gonna be able to bring oxygen and nutrition to help the brain, too. So gluten is a big one. I would say, of course, your amino acid, serotonin 5 HCPL tyrosine, of course, B6 is really important. And if we’ve got bacterial imbalances that will affect B6. Also, healthy probiotics can help with gut inflammation. Remember inflammation in the gut will create inflammation in the brain. So healthy levels of Lactobacillus, bifida bacter, probotics will help cool down inflammation in the gut, which may help decrease some of that that glial site activation in the brain, which again is—is an inflammatory cell in the brain. It’s a white blood cell that it’s in the brain called the glial cells and when those get activated, it can create uhm—brain fog and it can also create mood issues, too.

Evan Brand: Oh, I wanna go back to the diet piece. So there is a piece of literature out there, a study of 9,700 vegetarians including some vegans, they were twice as likely to suffer from depression as meat eaters even after adjusting for variables such as job status, family history, and number of children. And then it goes on to talk about the lower intake of omega-3 fats, B12 and folate, which all can affect depression risk. Uhm—so on that note of the Omega 3’s, yeah, DHA, fish oil supplement could be helpful, but also, you’ve got pastured meats. You know, grass-fed beef alone contains so much more Omega threes than your standard typical low-quality meat. So, that is a really, really good piece of the puzzle.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Uhm— definitely getting 3 to 4 servings, 4 ounces of healthy fish per week is gonna be great, wild Alaskan, sockeye, skipjack tuna, you know, kinda  high selenium to low mercury type of fish. You can just google that, high selenium to low mercury fish. It’s typically the higher ones are gonna be like the uhm— the shark pilot whale, those things, swordfish are gonna be much higher in mercury to selenium. Skipjack’s gonna be great. Wild Alaskan sockeye is gonna be great. Cod, Haddock, Sole. These are all gonna be higher selenium, lower Mercury. That’s great. And if you want to be on top of it more, you can do your 2 to 4 g of fish oil per day is excellent. That will have EPA and DHA in it.  You know the ones like my Omega supreme has lipase in it. It’s also a triglyceride form, so it’s better absorbed, number one. LS oxidation, number two. And then the actual lipase will help you break it down in case there’s some fatty acid, you know, the digestion uh— digestive compromise things going on in there, too.

Evan Brand: Yeah. Well said. If you’re buying fish oil supplements, people, if it smells fishy, throw that stuff out. It’s garbage. It’s ethyl ester form. If you go to Target, Walgreens, uh— any of these big box stores and you’re buying fish oil, it’s crap. Do not waste your money. Buy professional grade supplement. Check out Justin’s site, justinhealth I’ve also got one, evanbrand Just look us up. Find our stores. And we’ve got good fish oils because if you’re not doing professional grade, you’re wasting your money and there’s actually literature now that if it is an oxidized rancid fish oil, you’re actually creating more inflammation when the whole goal is to suppress inflammation and help depression. You’re making it worse if  you’re doing the low-quality like a Kirkland’s or a Costco or Sam’s Club or these big box uhm—fish oils, vitamin Shoppe, GNC. All those guys. That’s all consumer grade. It’s all ethyl ester. That’s not good. You want triglyceride.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly.  And Teresa mentions a low T3. So if you have low thyroid levels, poor T4 to T3 conversion, right? Or lower thyroid or active fiber hormone T3 or tri iodo thyronine, that’s important. Low thyroid can create mood issues. It can create depression. So we’d want to get to the root cause of why the thyroid is low. It could be just a combination of an autoimmune issue driven by gluten and other infections it could be a nutrient conversion issue like selenium and vitamin A, copper, zinc, magnesium. It also could be uhm—you know, gut bacteria issue. It could also be a stress issue like cortisol, right? So adrenal function has major effects on mood, too. If the adrenals are hyper or hypo functioning, there could be some mood issues there. It could be fatigue, it could be anxiety, it could be depression, it could be a combination of all three. Typically, anxiety and depression tend to come together. Some people can have them just individually where they are either anxious or depressed. But some people they tend to ebb and flow between the two.

Evan Brand: Yup. Well said. So if you have thyroid problems, you’ve got to investigate the gut, you’ve got to investigate the adrenals. We talk about that, but we can never stop talking about it because your conventional doc is not bringing this up. When you go there and you show up slightly off with your TSH, they’re not gonna say, “Hey, maybe you have gut infections. It’s causing conversion problems. Maybe you have adrenal problems that’s messing up your conversion of active thyroid hormone.” They’re not gonna say that. So we have to keep talking about it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hundred percent. And so outside of that, yeah, Tessa makes a note,
“Hey, I don’t have a  thyroid.” Then you really have to make sure you’re on a full-spectrum thyroid glandular and your T3 levels are at a therapeutic level, at least above 3.0 for T3 free. Ideally, I’ll make sure T4 is above 1.0  That’s a really good starting point. And then James mentions, “What about Olympian labs omega-3 fish oil?” I’m not quite sure. It could be good, it may not. Typically, you get what you pay for. Number one, you want to make sure it’s a triglyceride form. Number two and ideally you want to make sure it’s in, you know, this is like a plus, like I , add in the lipase coz I have worked with a lot of patient that have compromised guts and I want to make sure they can break the fish oils down well. So that is another important component.

Evan Brand: Yeah I’m looking at it right now. I can’t find any information about whether that brand is a triglyceride form or not. So I’ll keep digging and see if I could find it. But, Justin and I were biased because we want people to get better. We have to actually follow up with our clients and speak with them. And if they’re not getting better that comes back on us. And so we really want to use and we always use the highest quality professional grade formulas, which tend to have tighter quality control and better certain—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And also just better potency, too. I remember  I had some issues in the supply chain because some of the nutrients that we were getting, were testing positive with some—some metals and some other not—not so nice compounds. So they sent it back to the manufacturer. So the nice thing is we’re always trying to look and make sure there’s no other contaminations where let’s say a lesser quality company may just say, “look the other way and just let it go.” So we’re trying to put that quality control on it to ensure that there is not to be any extra crap in it that could throw you off, so to speak.

Evan Brand: Yes. So I ended up on the Olympia labs website here for this fish oil. It looks like and this is just to cheap, right? So if you see something for 30 bucks for a 120, that— it just sounds too cheap already. So to me, that tells me not gonna be triglyceride form. I read the entire description. I don’t see one word that includes a triglyceride form. So to me, it’s ethyl ester. You could always contact them and say, “Hey, is it up ethyl ester triglyceride?” But I’m gonna bet a hundred bucks that it’s gonna be ethyl ester which is inferior. You don’t want to put that in your body.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. But again, if you’re doing three or four servings of 4 ounces of fish a week, you may not even need fish oil. Uh—again, if you have extra inflammation, or extra brain stuff going on, cognitive stuff, mood stuff, then I would recommend supplementing it. Just so you get extra bit on top of it. Just to ensure that you know, what you’re getting is getting to where it needs to go. Is there anything else you want to add, Evan, about depression or mood stuff regarding functional medicine here?

Evan Brand: I think that’s it. We hit the gut, we hit the adrenals, we hit the thyroid aminos, liver function, digestive, anti-inflammation. I think we’ve hit all, man.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Awesome. Well, hey,  great talk today. We’re doing some quicker podcast so we can get more content out there to everyone. Hope you appreciate it.  If you enjoy it, give us a thumbs up. Subscribe. Click on the bell now. With YouTube, they make it so you don’t get a lot of the notifications of new videos and new content unless you are subscribed and you hit the bell. So click on that bell. Do it for Evan’s channel as well and myself. That way, you can get all this really good spoon-fed information for you guys to continue to improve your health and your friends and family health, too.

Evan Brand: Yup. If you need to reach out for a consult with Dr. J or myself, go to You can schedule consult with this. We’ll help you via phone and Skype. We work with people worldwide. We’ll help you get tested, get to the root cause. So look us up. Book a call if you need help. Don’t try to piece it together for suffering. We’re here for you. So have a great day. Take Care.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Thanks, Evan. Take Care.




Reversing Autoimmune Disease

Reversing Autoimmune Disease

By Dr. Justin Marchegiani

When your immune system response can’t distinguish between your body and any toxins you’ve ingested, the result is called ‘systemic inflammation:’ when your body attacks its own tissues. Your body might intend to fight off an infection or an allergen, but instead points the attack at your joints or your thyroid, or maybe even your whole body. This is how autoimmune conditions, such as arthritis, celiac disease, thyroid disorders, and lupus, begin to grow.

Causes of Autoimmune Disease

Causes of Autoimmune Disease

Autoimmune diseases typically stem from one of the following causes:

Genetic Predisposition: While your genes alone do not condone you to a fate of autoimmunity, having a family history is a good indicator that you should be proactive in preventing an autoimmune disease from developing.

The pathogenesis of autoimmune disease is multifactorial, meaning, just because you may have inherited the genes for an autoimmune disease, it does not necessarily mean you will develop one. Studies have shown that some combination of genetic and environmental factors are what ultimately cause or prevent autoimmunity from developing. In this article, we are going to break down some of the ways to prevent this from happening.

Leaky Gut: Food allergies, toxins in our food and environment, stress, gut dysbiosis and an inflammatory diet are causes of leaky gut. Leaky gut occurs when the gut lining is compromised, allowing large food particles and toxins to leak into the bloodstream, causing inflammation and autoimmunity.

Autoimmune conditions affect at least 50 million Americans, as well as millions more worldwide. However, autoimmune disease seems to exist almost exclusively in first-world countries. This is possibly linked to the diversity of the microbiome: in developed countries, we are regularly exposed to antibiotics and consume genetically modified foods laden with pesticides. These contribute to reducing the diversity of our microbiomes. Those in less developed countries have a wider range of gut flora, and don’t suffer from the same autoimmune diseases.

Click here if you are suffering from brain fog, digestive issues, or insomnia!

Trauma: Overwhelming stress or trauma, whether it be physical or emotional, such as a difficult break up, the death of a loved one, or a car accident, is enough to send your body into overdrive and trigger autoimmunity. The immune response due to physical stress (injury) causes profound inflammation, which is known to trigger autoimmune disease.

Up to 80% of people note that they experienced uncommon emotional stress before the onset of their autoimmune disease. Stress-related hormones are presumed to cause immune dysregulation, resulting in autoimmune disease. Stress can be responsible for more than just the onset of autoimmunity, it also feeds continues a vicious cycle of feeding the condition.

Prevention and Reversal of Autoimmunity

Prevention and Reversal of Autoimmunity

  • Eliminate any foods causing allergies or sensitivities. Here is a breakdown of what an elimination diet entails. Basically, by eliminating foods that are potential allergens, you’ll learn what your body feels like when you aren’t ingesting inflammatory foods. Then, you add back foods gradually and are able to pinpoint which foods are triggers for your autoimmunity or other issues you may have been experiencing.
  • Heal your gut to reduce inflammation. Your gut houses 70% of your immune system. If you don’t have a healthy gut balance, your immune system will be severely affected, contributing to autoimmune disease. An elimination diet can help you learn which foods are serving you and which are hurting your gut.
  • High quality probiotic supplements, eating and drinking probiotics in the forms of kombucha and sauerkraut, and drinking bone broth will all support a healthy gut!
  • Proper vitamin D levels. Research shows a strong correlation between vitamin D deficiency and autoimmune disease, cancer, and other serious diseases. This article studies the link between vitamin D and autoimmune disease in depth. Getting time in the sun, as well as supplementing with quality vitamin D, are ways to reverse and reduce risk of developing autoimmunity.

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  • Glutathione, the “master antioxidant,” helps your body detox any toxins you ingest. Glutathione is also a major player in immune system regulation, meaning it plays an important role in autoimmunity.
  • Zinc is essential for white blood cell production, and provides powerful immune system support (maybe you’ve heard zinc recommended to get over a cold quickly). In fact, studies have shown that those with a zinc deficiency are more susceptible to developing diseases.
  • Get good sleep will lower inflammation, heal your body, and reduce cravings for carbs, sugar, processed foods, and other junk that contributes to autoimmunity.
  • Magnesium A deficiency in magnesium increases production of proinflammatory cytokines, raising your body’s total level of inflammation, a trigger for autoimmunity. Magnesium deficiency is rampant in our society due to chronic stress, soil depletion, and high-sugar diets, so it is important to supplement with magnesium.
  • B vitamins support your immune system, hormones, sleep patterns, and much more. Vitamin B12 plays a role in your body’s production of white blood cells, which are essential components of your immune system. With lowered white blood cells, you are much more susceptible to illness, including autoimmunity.
  • Reduce stress Studies show stress can act as both a trigger and a modulator in autoimmunity, and stress-reducing techniques (yoga, meditation, massage) are viable treatment options.
  • Activated charcoal can be taken if you have consumed a food you are sensitive to, or any less than ideal foods. Activated charcoal binds to toxins to protect your body from inflammation.

If you are dealing an autoimmune disease, or have suspicions, please schedule a consultation with a qualified functional medicine doctor to assess your needs and help you heal.

Click here to talk to a functional medicine doctor about autoimmunity!


Low Body Temperature! – Dr. J Live Podcast # 156

Dr. Justin Marchegiani and Evan Brand engage in a very informative discussion about low body temperature. Learn how different potential stressors like thyroid issues, adrenal issues, gut health, autoimmune conditions, nutrition and low calories cause low body temperature. Find out about the role of micronutrients in thyroid hormone conversion and be aware of the medications that have a negative impact on mitochondrial function.

Gain information about the different foods, including modifications in macronutrients, and various supplements, which will improve your health and prevent different stressors that are possibly causing low body temperature.

In this episode, we cover: low body temperature

03:27   Thyroid issues

07:05   Beneficial Nutrients

14:14   Toxins and Medications

22:51   Food and Supplements

33:46   Calorie Intake






Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And we are live here on YouTube. It’s Dr. J in the house. Evan, my man, how are you doing brother?

Evan Brand: Hey man, happy Monday! We’re talking all fair about that shooting this morning so my mom, she worked right next door last night at the Hotel Luxor which was uh— right next door to that shooting event in Vegas. So I called her this morning and she’s safe and sound and she got released, so she’s home, hopefully sleeping. I’m sure she’s extremely adrenally stressed at this point, but hopefully she’s resting and settling down from all that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Lots of empathy for all the people out there going through that. It must be just incredibly stressful.

Evan Brand: It’s insane.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s just so difficult. So wishing everyone, you know, speedy recovery from that. That is just so difficult and man, everyone’s adrenals are revved up from that, right?

Evan Brand: I know.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So let’s go into some stuff here where people, we would get— put some information out there about improving everyone’s health.

Evan Brand: Yes.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh—and just continue to empower more people. So let’s dig in, brother.

Evan Brand: Yes. Yes, so you and I want to chat about low body temperature, which is something that so many people have. I’ve had it in the winter for a long time. I’m hoping that since I work so much, my gut and my adrenals that I don’t have it this winter but cold hands, cold feet you know that had been something that I mentioned going on with me for—for several years. I know there’s a lot of different causes that you and I wanted to go through. So how should we open this thing? Should we talk about hormones, thyroid, how do you want to lay the groundwork?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, we look at body temperature. Temperature is probably one of the best indicators of your metabolism, right? Because the more energy you have, typically the— the better your temperature is. And so typically, you’re gonna have symptoms of cold temperature which are gonna be cold hands, cold feet those kind of things. Also, fatigue, but now there’s also objective ways that we can test your temperature. You know, with the thermometer, obviously. We can do axillary temperature, which is armpit. 97.8 to 98.2 is—is Fahrenheit is a pretty good range to be in. Or 98.2 to 98.6 orally. And so you can kind of assess your temperature. You can do it in the morning and then you can also do it in the afternoon as well. Kinda do it just for before eating. That gives you a pretty good indication but if your metabolism is low and your temperature is low, it could be caused by an interplay of different things. We’ll go into it. It could be thyroid issues. It could be adrenal issues. It could be gut issues. It could be nutrient issues. It could be mitochondrial issues. So all of these things are potential stressors that could be driving that problem.

Evan Brand: I’d say number one is probably thyroid issues. Wouldn’t you suspect because so many people we talk with they have adrenal issues with them on top of that there is a thyroid problem. Like maybe elevated reverse T3, whether you’ve got that blank bullet going on or they just got a low free T3 or like you and I’ve chatted about with adrenals, you’ve got the conversion process that happens where you take the inactive T4 hormone, you convert that to active T3.That conversion process gets messed up if you’ve got chronic stress. And chronic stress as you mentioned, could be gut infections, it could be emotional stress, could be chemical, heavy metals. It could be circadian rhythm stress if you’re working third shift, for example. That could be enough to change this whole cascade. Wouldn’t you say?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, yeah. Hundred percent. I mean, again, all of those things can be intimately connected. The first we look at is thyroid because thyroid hormone has a major effect on our metabolism. And our metabolism is the sum of all chemical reactions in the body. And our metabolism is pH driven, right? So if our pH becomes too alkaline or too acidic, like you know blood pH, which exists in a very fine-tune range, right around 7.35+ or -1/10 of point there. And if that pH shifts up or down, that can affect how all of our enzymes in our bodywork. So that can affect temperature and there’s things like—uh like a diabetic coma, right? Where blood sugar can go to he— or too low typically. If someone’s type I dependent and they don’t have insulin, they don’t get sugar into their cell, which can create ketoacidosis. And that can really, really drop that pH and that put you into a coma. So our pH is very driven and has a major effect on our metabolism, so, totally.

Evan Brand: So let’s hit on—let’s hit on the thyroid peace. Now autoimmunity is something we talk about so much. Would you say a common symptom of someone with Hashimoto’s, for example, could be low body temperature or possibly even a fluctuating. Maybe their low body temperature if they’re a bit underperforming but then couldn’t they just bounce right back and get actually hot if they bump into hyperthyroid. If they’re in the Hashimoto’s state, and things are still fluctuating.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah. So, if you’re having Hashimoto’s and your immune systems constantly attacking your thyroid, your thyroid hormone can spill.

Evan Brand: Right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Coz every time it’s attacked, hormone spills out. Eventually those follicles run dry and you’re not gonna quite have that hyper kind of symptoms. So in an acute attack, hyper symptoms may be increased temperature are common, right? You can have like PVC’s periventricular contractions. Uh—you can have, you know, kinda this—kinda heart palpitations. Your heart’s kinda beating erratic and hard, uh—anxiety, night sweats, irritability. These are all hyper thyroid symptoms. You feel warming, right? You feel excessive warmth or temperature. But then, in a chronic state, that will eventually lead to a hypothyroid kind of environment, where your body temperature just gets very low.

Evan Brand: So someone has had Hashimoto’s for quite some time, let’s say there’s been a pretty significant tissue destruction, you would say someone will not end up being hyper long-term with Hashimoto’s. It’d probably be hypo long-term.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I mean you can—hyper feels very similar. Hyperthyroid Grave’s feels very similar to a hypothyroid autoimmune attack. The difference is with hyper, typically, there’s a specific antibodies or immunoglobulin compounds that come back. So with Grave’s, you’re seeing TSI immunoglobulins or you’re seeing thyroid TSH receptor site antibodies. So that’s what’s typically common in Grave’s. And when those things are high, it’s accelerating the thyroid hormone to produce excessive amounts of thyroid hormone. So there’s like a production stimulation where with the autoimmune attack, from like thyroglobulin antibodies or TPO antibodies is it’s more the spilling of a thyroid hormone out of the thyroid. It’s spilling out where the antibody attack from Grave’s, it’s stimulating the thyroid to produce more.

Evan Brand: Exactly.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: With Hashimoto’s, you’re not getting the stimulation. You’re more or less getting that spilling effect, which eventually, you know, will run dry.

Evan Brand: Got it. Got it.  Okay. So we hit the autoimmune piece. What else would go on thyroid-wise that will be an issue with temperature regulation?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Well, again, there’s also certain nutrients that have a major effect on thyroid uh—conversions. So we know things like selenium are super important for thyroid conversion. So someone may have decent thyroid levels from a T4 perspective, uh— but they may not have that activation, right? They may not have that conversion uhm— that’s so important.

Evan Brand: So could it just be the lack of trace nutrients, trace mineral selenium, zinc— things like that activators.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So here, we are live on Facebook now, too with the low body temperature podcast. So getting back onto our common thread. Yeah, micronutrients like selenium are gonna be important for thyroid conversion. It’s a five—the enzyme that converts T4 to T3 inactive thyroid hormone to active thyroid hormone is a 5 deiodinase enzyme. It’s also important with glutathione and detoxification. So, yeah, that’s totally uh— important micronutrient that will affect thyroid activations. So when we look at thyroid function, we’re looking at are there blood sugar fluctuations? Are you eating grains or foods that are gonna cause that thyroid antibody attack that could cause the hormones to spill out and eventually deplete the hormones? Your thyroid follicles carry about four months of thyroid hormone. So again, if you have a chronic Hashimoto attack, where the thyroid hormone’s spilling out faster than you can synthesize and make more, then you’re going to definitely get to that depletion state where you’re gonna go hypo from a temperature standpoint. You’re gonna go almost hypothermic. That temperature will drop below that 97.8 – 98.2 armpit temperature wise or 98.2 to 98.6 and I’ll put a handout down below to my uh— metabolic temperature handout. So people can actually track their temperatures and it’s basically a graph of three different lines. And then the top brackets where you want your temperature to be through which ranges 97.8 – 98.6 We want to be checking off daily that your temps are in this bracket not the bottom or the very bottom.

Evan Brand: Got it. Okay. So what else? Should we talk about the nutrients next?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Should we talk about the nutrients, right? Vitamin A, we talked about uh— zinc, copper, selenium, magnesium very important nutrients for thyroid conversion. Now if you’re eating a whole food diet, you’re gonna be typically pretty good. If you’re having enough HCl and enzymes, you’re gonna be good as well because we need those type of compounds to be able to ionize the minerals. So it’s the diet component. It’s making sure we have the ability to break down the foods in our diet that are nutrient dense. Uhm— number three is making sure our stress response is okay because stress hormones will affect thyroid conversion. Cortisol being hyper— very high— will affect thyroid T4 to T3 conversion that inactive to active thyroid hormone. Also, if cortisol is too lo from chronic stress. So there’s this, kinda Goldilocks effect that we see here with thyroid hormone kinda need it to be not too high, but not too low to have optimal conversion. Does that makes sense?

Evan Brand: Yeah. It does. Well said. Let me mention about the gut, too, coz you just hit on the fact that you’ve got to have absorption. So even if the diet’s good, which many people listening to us, they probably already dialed in like a Paleo template but they could still have this symptom. You may want to check for infections. Coz like Justin and I talk about almost every week at some level, there could be an H. pylori, bacteria, yeast, fungus, something going on in the gut that’s stealing your nutrients or preventing you from optimally digesting. And then that issue is compounded, if you’ve been taking any type of anti-acid where acid blocking medication something simple as Tom’s or something more strong like a prior was it Prilosec or Zantac.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. So, yeah. Totally.

Evan Brand: Keep that in mind. If you’re looking at your medication list and that includes acid blockers and you have cold body temperatures, it’s probably cause you’re not digesting your foods therefore the thyroid is not getting fed the nutrients it needs.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Totally. And also a lot of medications could affect your mitochondria. Just Google antibiotics and mitochondrial function, you’ll find that antibiotics can negatively impact mitochondrial function. And you’ll also find that other medications can impact the mitochondria. And the mitochondria is like the little powerhouse of your cell where it generates a lot of ATP, which is that currency of energy in which your body runs. So that’s really important and also an important nutrient call carnitine really helps that mitochondria utilize fat for energy, generate ATP out of that good fat, you know, it’s called uh—beta oxidation where you’re generating energy from fat. And carnitine is an important nutrient primarily made from methionine and lysine. Now, I did a video call why vegan and vegetarian diets can make you fat? Now—no—don’t make you fat. But you know, why they the can—meaning it’s not a hundred percent. But if you’re insulin resistant and you’re doing it the wrong way, where you’re emphasizing maybe too much carbohydrates, not enough protein and more gut irritating foods, yeah, it can definitely predispose people that have an inflamed guts and work more on the insulin resistance side to gain weight. And one of the big things is that when you eat certain animal rich amino acids, there are some plant ones as well, you activate the cells in the brain that are called—hold on, one __my notes—uh—tenocytes. And these tenocytes are receptor sites in the brain in the third ventricle area of the brain. And there’s a direct blood flow between them and the hypothalamus. These tenocytes, one, they sense satiety but the big thing that senses satiety for them is arginine and lysine which are really high in animal-based foods. So these amino acids really get that sense of satiation so that means you’re one, gonna have appetite regulation. Coz when you actually start feeling full, you tend to not eat all the crap, right?

Evan Brand: Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So the more you can keep your cravings in check, the more you eat healthier foods because you got control over your biochemistry. You’re not reacting. You’re acting based on what you know you need to be healthy. But those amino acids are primarily gonna be higher in animal-based foods especially lysine as well.

Evan Brand: Yeah. Well said.  So in a roundabout way, if you are a vegetarian or a vegan and you’ve got low body temperature, it could just be something as simple as a carnitine deficiency. I mean you could probably get a little bit in beans maybe—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  A little bit in beans, a little bit in almonds, a little bit in plums and avocados, for sure.

Evan Brand: But even then, once we talked like—we talked all the time, digestion of those foods is probably not very good and the concentration of those is gonna be much less as opposed to a grass-fed beef.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. In my video, I talked about, you know, if you are a smart vegan where you’re not emphasizing a lot of the grains, you’re doing safer starches, you’re getting lots of fats from avocado, olive oil, coconut oil, you’re supplementing DHEA in the form of algae, right? And if you’re getting B12 uh—supplementation and you’re getting a good multi- in there and you’re getting lots of— you’re getting some protein supplementation in there, maybe from pea or hemp, right? You may be okay on a vegan-vegetarian diet, but it’s just— it’s still less than optimal just because of the fact that you gotta go through such extreme lengths to get high-quality protein sources without all the carbohydrate. Coz vegetarian-vegan diet’s typically are packed with 60 to 80% carbohydrates for that 20 to 25% of protein you get.

Evan Brand: Yup.  Well said. You hit on the mitochondria, too. We should take  that a bit further and talk about more toxins. You hit on antibiotics, some mitochondrial issues there. Makes perfect sense. We work with people all the time where they say, “Oh Justin or Evan, as soon as I took a round of antibiotics, all of a sudden things went bad.” And it could be temperature –temperature issues, it could be sleep problems, it could be gut issues, digestive problems. And so also with mitochondrial issues, we’ve got toxins. So if you’re not using 100% organic, that’s an issue because glyphosate and these other pesticides and herbicides, fungicides and insecticides— they all compound with each other. So it’s not that one chemical by itself will kill you, but if you get a little bit of glyphosate from your non-organic berries, you combine that with a little bit of conventional vegetables coz you did a salad at a restaurant, you combine that with in antibiotics that you’re getting from meat. If it’s not labeled “no antibiotics” you stock all those upon each other, you’ve got some bad mitochondrial problems here that you need to fix. And we can measure the—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. The enzymes that are needed to help move those gears that  kinda crank around that mitochondrial Krebs cycle and then flow in so the beta oxidation process. Uhm— you need certain nutrients. You need B vitamins, you need magnesium, you need zinc, the healthy levels of amino acids. You also don’t need all the toxins— the aluminum, the pesticides, the glyphosate. So those things can kinda gunk up the gears of that metabolic machinery. So it’s not only what those gears need to keep it lubricated, but what it is we don’t need to put in that will prevent those gears moving. So it’s a combination of avoiding certain things, right? And again, the medications are a double-edged sword. I’m not saying don’t use them. I’m saying just really make sure they’re— they are prescribed specifically for what you need. And it’s the last case kind of thing with antibiotics. We really want to go to herbs and botanical nutrients over antibiotics. They may have a time or place, but we want to use it only when we’ve exhausted other options.

Evan Brand: Yeah. Well said. And you and I were talking off air, we can quantify a lot of this stuff, too. So you’re talking about measuring your temperature. We can quantify what’s going on in the gut, right? We can test the gut, we can test the thyroid with—with blood using functional reference ranges and using functional numbers that conventional doctors don’t use. They’re only going to detect disease. We’re going to detect the issues before disease occurs. We’re gonna look into the gut so we could test you for infections. We could test the adrenals, look at your free cortisol rhythm so the uh— HPA axis, the hypothalamus, pituitary adrenal axis, you hear us talk about, you know, that is a factor in all of this. If your brain is not connecting the signal to the adrenals and adrenal to the thyroid, that whole system gets often chronic stress. And it’s up to us to figure out when we talk about stress what’s in that bucket. Is it just your job, your bad boss, your relationship, the divorce you’re going through? Is it that stuff only or is that stuff plus chemicals in the diet, plus nutrient deficiencies, plus infections, plus not having enough quality meat in the diet.  You see how these things can all add up.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. And just to kinda look at the thyroid component again, there’s dysregulation up top where the TSH is either high extreme, higher extreme, low. Now it can be extremely low because you’re on thyroid hormone and the body needs more thyroid hormone. The body is sense— sensing more thyroid hormone in the brain, but there’s less than the actual tissues. So that you’re keeping the thyroid hormone higher, but that’s keeping the TSH low. That’s step one. The TSH may be low because of HPAT access dysregulation. That hypothalamus pituitary and that adrenal thyroid axis. There’s some kinda short-circuits happening in there because of the stress— the emotional stress, because of the physical stress, because of the chemical stressors. And we have to address those while we support the nutrients to get this hardwire back on track. We can also have low T4 levels. Coz if T4 is low, we’re gonna have low T3 over here. So we got to make sure the nutrients for T4 in there like I mentioned before the vitamin A, the zinc , the copper, magnesium, selenium, uhm— amino acids, tyrosine and potentially iodine. As long as we know that there’s not uh— autoimmune attack that’s the lease active going on. And then number three, after that, we let see how the T4 to T3 conversion is. If T4 is good, how does T3 conversion look? Is it this big drop off? Or also is there a very high amount of reverse T3 because of that stress? All those can make a big difference. And then one person ask here—James asks, “Well, is hypothyroid and hyperthyroid hypo and hyper kind of the same for treatment?” Yes and no. With hyperthyroid from a TSI thyroid stimulating immunoglobulin or TSH receptor antibody attack, we’re more concerned about coz it tends to be more chronically high which can increase the chance of a thyroid storm and then potentially a stroke. So we take that very seriously. We refer that patient out to their medical doctor uh—for monitoring. We don’t want—we wanna make sure there’s not a stroke going on. But typically, the treatment will be, you know, PTU. Uhm—basically  uh—propylthiouracil or methimazole. Things to basically block iodine uptake to make thyroid hormone. Or though— you know, typically, go to a thyroid radioactive thyroid kind of ablation or even a thyroidectomy. I’ve had patients where we’ve been able to avoid those because we give nutrients to help modulate the thyroid response and modulate the autoimmune response like carnitine, like blue flag, like lemon balm, melissa uhm—into certain adaptogens. They could also help kinda dampen that response. There are some protocols that even show higher amounts of iodine can block that sodium uhm— iodine’s import that transfers iodine into the thyroid. So there’s a couple of different protocols you can use to help. And of course, all of the diet and lifestyle things are the same. But we take the Grave’s autoimmune attack a little bit more seriously just because of the repercussions of it not being treated appropriately, what will happen, we really want to sidestep those.

Evan Brand: Yup. Well said. So get the TPO antibodies checked. Get your eTG antibodies checked, you talk about the TSI. Now, have you seen where TPO TG would be high at the same time as TSI? Where it’s gonna look like Hashimoto’s and Grave’s at the same time?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It could. I’ve seen it before.  Yeah. It definitely can. So get—we’re  gonna really get patients on an autoimmune protocol to help lower any autoimmune attack from the food, from the gluten, from the leaky gut. And we’ll also work on blood sugar stability coz high and low blood sugar fluctuations have a major effect on the immune system.

Evan Brand: Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Now another person asked here, the reason why you know I’m such a huge fan of how we do our podcast is coz it’s literally on the go and we’re infusing questions from people on YouTube here right into the conversations. So it’s like—remember those books you read when you’re like a kid and you read it and it’s like, “Oh, if you want the character to do this, turn to this page. If you want the character to do this, turn to this page.”  You can totally change how the book goes.

Evan Brand: Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, it’s kind how our podcast are. So interjecting here uhm—, Gerald asked, “What about T3? How does T3 work?”  Well number one, T3 can just help support low T3 levels. And if there’s some kind of conversion issue, that can kinda biased time to fix the conversion aspect, number one. Number two, giving that T3 in the Wilson protocol uhm— that can have some effect on clearing out the receptor sites. So that now the T3 works better and binds better uhm— in the future. You can do that by starting low and then tapering up, holding it and then tapering it back down. In the Wilson protocol, Dr. Dennis Wilson does that with time-released T3. But we do a glandular’s in it. That can still be helpful as well. We’re using that as a way of clearing out the receptor site but were also not, you know, thinking that that’s gonna be the only issue. We’re also banking that there’s other things that we’re gonna be fixing that will allow it to be a long-term solution, right?

Evan Brand: Got it. So you’re saying the thyroid glandular’s can be used for low—a low  T3 situation.  That’s the fix that’s going to get you better enough to keep moving the needle in other departments.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Correct. Like in my line, we have Thyro Balance which is a—a really glandular uhm—nutrient thyroid support from a glandular perspective. And then we have that we have Thyro Replete which is nutrients for the conversion. So there’s some herbs that help with conversion like coleus forskohlii and ginseng and then we have the nutrients for conversion that I mentioned—the vitamin A, magnesium, copper, zincs, selenium—all of those—and tyrosine’s. We wanna make sure all those are in there. Uhm so we hit it from all angles. I mean if we knew exactly what that missing like nutrient component was, we could hit it more practically. But it’s too difficult to do that.

Evan Brand: Right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You’re better off using multiple methods to hit it. That way the patient can get better faster.

Evan Brand: Agreed. And you mention the adaptogens. I’m so glad you did. We use those all the time. I take them every day in some shape or form, whether it’s ashwaganda, holy basil, shoshandra. There are so many options and people ask, “Well, can I just take a bunch of adaptogens and fix myself?” Uhm— it doesn’t work like that. You just want to use them as one piece of your toolbox. You still want to be getting to the root cause. So adaptogens are life-changing but if there’s root causes, you can take all the adaptogens in the world and it won’t fix you.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’m gonna take my ashwaganda right now—

Evan Brand: Perfect.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: A little bit of immune support. But I mean, like yeah, if you’re doing okay and you’re like, “Hey, Dr. J and Evan talked about some ashwaganda and some of these nutrients. I want to try it out.” Fine, go ahead.  But if you’re actively having issues that are you know, the symptoms that we mention here whether it’s on the hyper or hypo side, you really want to get someone on board to help guide you because it’s never just one magic bullet. It is—it’s a whole bunch of things that we’re doing together. And the more chronic it is, the more you have a you know, that momentum working against you. You got overcome that inertia to stop that— that snowball effect and start pushing it back uphill. So, yeah, if you’re in pretty good shape, fine you know just try some of these things. But if you’re in not so good shape, you want to reach out, for sure.

Evan Brand: Yep. Cool. Oh, we got time for one more question. Uh James said, “It’s not a thyroid question.” He’s taking an antibiotic for root canal this week. “Will this affect the result of organic acids test and stool test if he collects the samples while antibiotics are still in the system?”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I mean if we’re doing some of the genetic base testing, it shouldn’t have an effect on it. If we’re doing a stool base to antigen-based testing, then it would.

Evan Brand: Right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So you should be okay but we’re doing the G.I. map which is you know, what my go-to is. It should be okay according to the lab. I try to avoid it— doing it. So I would say in a perfect world, if it’s not gonna delay your treatment, I would say get to the antibiotics give it like a day or two to let it wash out and then do it. But if uhm— timing doesn’t work out, just do it, get done.

Evan Brand: I would also look at Mercola root canals and read about those. I mean maybe you’re too far down the rabbit hole and you can’t avoid the root canal. But you know there are some other options you may have available if you’ve got a good biological Dennis maybe will sit down with you and say, “Okay, root canal’s option A but maybe there’s a option B C you could look at too because we’ve had a lot of people to come to us with infected root canals and maybe Jessica can speak on this a bit. But I’ve seen it as a big needle mover for people.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. There’s a book by Ramiel Nagel that talks all about root canals. It is highly recommended. You take a look at it. Uh— fat-soluble nutrients, vitamin A, vitamin K are very helpful. Uh—oil pulling that kinda help extract any toxins that may be in there and you don’t want a root canal you want to get the tooth pulled out. Uhm— you want to get an implant put in using biologically appropriate material. You don’t want the gangrenous tissue still in the system without the blood flow. And the immune response to be able to get it is just a harboring place for a whole bunch of bacteria and viruses to hang out.

Evan Brand: Right. Yeah. Well said. So James, look into that. Maybe it’s not too late. Uh—hopefully, you’ve got some other options you can pursue it’d be much— much safer and much healthier in the long term. That way, you don’t have a hidden dental infection. There’s a guy named, Simon Yu that you and I should reach out and interview. He’s over in St. Louis he talks a lot about hidden dental infections. I think that’d be a good show.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay. Absolutely. Hundred percent. So couple of things we wanna talk about. Oh, also carbohydrate, I think is important. Again, my bias is towards a lower carbohydrate template—Paleo template. And again, I hate the word “diet” because it assumes something is temporary and it assumes that it is fixed; where a template gives us flexibility and modification and may change day to day. It may change uh—meal to meal. I tend to be very lower carbohydrate my first two meals of the day and then after that, I may increase in carbohydrate at nights uhm—you know a bit of the starchy based. So I’m very strict during the day. It’s high-quality. It’s— set—it’s 60 to 70% fats, the only carbohydrates are vegetables and then good proteins and then I go higher at night. On the carbohydrates side, maybe a little bit of sweet potatoes and some butter and cinnamon or maybe I have a—some dark chocolate or have couple more berries than I normally would. So there’s that component. So I always go lower carbohydrate to start because so many people are insulin resistant just because of the fact that we eat too much carbohydrate and were inflamed. So I always go lower carbohydrate to start and then typically, patient will do be better and will feel better because insulin resistance can affect T4 to T3 thyroid conversion, which can cause lower temperature. Now, in the double edge side of the fence, if people go too low insulin, they may also get poor thyroid conversion as well. So just like I mentioned cortisol has a major effect on thyroid conversion. Well, guess what? Insulin has a major effect on thyroid conversion. Type I diabetics— guess what? With low insulin levels coz of the autoimmune attack to the beta cells of the pancreas, they have low body temperature. So if you go too low carbohydrate, and this is for certain individuals not everyone, I know people are gonna be like, “But I’m low carbohydrate and I felt great and it reverse my low temperature.” I get it. Again, there are exceptions to every rule. There are tall Chinese people that play basketball even though they are more shorter in the population. There are exceptions to everything, okay? We got to get that in. So yes, there are some people that a low carbohydrate diet, the majority I would say would help partly because our consumption of refined carbohydrate and sugar is higher, but there are some people when they’re chronically load, they may increase that carbohydrate just a bit. And that ups the insulin a little bit which then helps that thyroid conversion. They’re like, “ Dude, my hair started to grow back better, my temperature’s better, my energy is better.” Boom! You at least now figure it out for you. So exceptions to every rule, figure it out. And uhm—if you feel great going low-carb, great, keep it there, hang out. But if you start getting some of those hypo temperature symptoms, then we’ll just ratcheted up a little bit.  And I primarily ratcheted up starting at night.

Evan Brand: Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: They’ll still get the benefit of keeping it lower carb during the day.

Evan Brand: Well said. I mean that’s me in a nutshell. I went very, very, very low-carb ketogenic, I guarantee. I was probably ketogenic most of the time and then I started to get cold and so I added in some starch with dinner and all of a sudden my body temperature’s perfect now. I feel good. So uh—if I go too low-carb again, it may come back or if there’s a huge piece of stress on my plate, the low body temperature may come back. But for now, I’ve been able to reverse this and been able to clear out all the infections with your help in terms of protocol a couple of years ago getting rid of all my gut bugs, plus supporting adrenals, getting the diet dialed in, getting my sleep improved, blacking out my room. All of those things are still important. So I hope this has been helpful. I gotta run. You’ve gotta run, too. Uhm—or are there any last questions that we could answer? I closed out the chat window. Uh there’s just one thing I want to say is it’s not about being higher carb or lower carb, have a –have a foundational template which you— which you go back to and then you can customize it. And then if you increase carbs, you can still get some of the benefits by having that first 20 hours of your meals relatively lower carb, higher fat, moderate protein and those last four hours you pop up a little bit and so you can still get some of those benefits. If you’re like, “Oh, I feel better with higher carbs.” You can still get the benefits of the first 20 hours of your day kinda in that ketogenic state and then pop up the carbohydrates later. So it’s not an either or thing. We can kinda straddle the fence but we want to customize it. I don’t give a crap if—if low-carb is your missing link and being low-carb all the time helps you, that’s what we’re gonna do. If being low-carb and a little more high carbohydrate helps you out, I don’t care. I’m all about the results and not about what tool I have to use to get the job done.

Evan Brand: Yup. Well said. For me that looks like the breakfast like a pastured sausage, maybe a handful of macadamias, maybe a handful of organic blueberries. Lunch—I  probably do some leftover steak and veggies like a big thing of broccoli with some butter. Dinner— that’s when I may do some type of pastured meat, a little bit of some veggies and then starch, so it could be a medium-size baked sweet potato, butter, cinnamon. That’s all it takes and I feel good. So just to kind of give people an idea what is that look like. That’s what it looks like.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. That’s great. And a couple of questions here. Uh— Stephanie talks about menopausal women with lower estrogen and a low estradiol vaginal tablets. Well, this is interesting because typically low estrogen can cause hot flashes. And why does that cause hot flashes? Because typically the FSH and the LH starts to rise in the pituitary which is that signaling hormone trying to yell to the ovaries to make more progesterone and estrogen. So when LH and FSH primarily FSH goes high, that can create some vasodilation effects and create the hot flashes. So by giving a little bit of thyroid—giving a little bit of uhm— female hormone support, we can drop down that FSH then we can also modulate the receptor sites with some herbs as well to help with how flashes. Whether we use maca, or  we use dong quia, or black cohosh or raspberry root, or shepherds purse. There’s different nutrients or herbs we can do to help modulate that. So again, you could still have hypo, low thyroid issues, but have menopausal issues because of the low estrogens, which could drive the hot flashes up. So it’s kind of a conundrum. The hot flashes may—may overshadow this low thyroid thing over here. So as we get the female hormones fixed, you may notice the low thyroid comes back later on because it’s just not a secondary issue and the primary issue is the menopause. Once that’s ruled out, now this one comes to the surface.

Evan Brand: Got it. Well said.  We should probably do a whole show just on low estrogen if we haven’t.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think that’d be great. I mean, I see estrogen dominance is a big problem.

Evan Brand: Right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Where estrogen –the ratio of estrogen is higher than progesterone, right? So progesterone should be like this 25 to 125 times more than estrogen. But if that ratio starts to creep up where estrogen gets higher, that’s estrogen dominance. The problem is a lot of people, though, where that ratio—they’re estrogen dominant, progesterone’s slow but estrogen is also low. So they get this estrogen dominant, but also low estrogen sums at the same time. So it’s kinda like this conundrum. It’s like this little tug of war that’s happening there.

Evan Brand: Wow. Put it on this to do list. It sounds like it’s gonna be a fun one for us to dive into more. And I’ve probably got some stuff to learn from you on that topic as well.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think it’s great. Well any last questions, comments, or concerns, Evan?

Evan Brand: No. I think this has been good. People, you got to get the testing run because if you don’t test, you’ve guessed. So if you’re trying to figure this out on your own, even if you’re not working with Justin or myself, then get the test run. Find a functional medicine practitioner they can take care of you. We are accepting new clients, so if you do need help, feel free to reach out justin We run these labs on all of our clients because it’s the foundation. We’ve got to have the data. We’ve gotta have the puzzle pieces on the table; otherwise, you can’t move the needle. We could throw a bunch of random stuff at you might help, can’t hurt, but we want to get you better. There’s a systemic process that we do step by step by step to take you through this. So happy to help. Reach out if you got questions and thanks for tuning.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh! One last thing, man. I forgot to add.  This is so important. Low calories.

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Just not eating enough calories will cause low body temperature. It’s shown to cause a low level T3. Now this is important because if your diet is 25% crap Ola and let’s say you’re eating 2000 calories a day and then we switch you over— we switch you over to a uh— autoimmune kinda Paleo template, but you’re only able to—to—to switch over 75% of your diet because you don’t—you don’t have enough you—you can’t replace all the crap that you’re eating with the good stuff, right?

Evan Brand: Right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Because if you’re eating a whole bunch of crappy carbohydrates and stuff and then you replace it with a whole bunch of really good vegetables or lower sugar foods, well guess what? You’re probably didn’t replace the calorie amount either. So now you got this 25% calorie deficiency. So now instead of having 2000 calories, right? Now you’re having 1500 calories and maybe metabolically you need 2000 calories. Now you’re 500 calories in the hole which means your 500 calories deficient of various nutrients. So now your metabolism goes low coz there’s less fuel. That’s important. I see a lot. So you gotta  work with someone that really can make sure you’re exchanging the foods and you’re getting enough calories as well. Coz calories equal nutrition. if you’re eating real foods.

Evan Brand: I’m glad you mentioned that. That’s such a simple but common issue. If you’re going AIP, you are going Paleo, you’re eating real foods, you could have an entire plate full of broccoli and it may only be 50 calories.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly.

Evan Brand: Yeah. Dude, great job. Way to kill it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And of course, the infections like you mentioned can really suck down the energy. Of course, acute infection, you know, you’re causing a fever, right? Because the immune system’s trying to up regulate itself because a lot of the bacteria and crap there uhm—they’re like—they’re mesophilic. They—they thrive in a medium temperature. So when you go a little bit higher, you can actually kill them off with a higher temperature. But these chronic bugs can really deplete the energy the body and create this kinda lower temperatures as well. For sure.

Evan Brand: Yeah. And I went—I went to low-calorie for a period of time, not intentionally, not on purpose. It just happened. I was eating meats, I was eating veggies and  I track my calories for a few days and I was eating m—and my activity level  and all that. I was probably 4 to 600 calories deficient. So just added in an extra tablespoon of butter here and there, half of an avocado here and there, handful of nuts and seeds. And I was right back up to where I needed to be.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Like here’s a seesaw right?

Evan Brand: Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So if like carbohydrate is here, if carbs go lower— this is fat over here. The fats have to go up.

Evan Brand: Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: If you keep the fats here, you keep the fats on—on this side low, and drop the carbohydrates, that’s where the problem happens. The fats also have to go up. That’s the biggest issue. Proteins typically stay in the middle. Typically, proteins only go up if you’re doing a whole bunch of protein powders because proteins and fats are intimately connected. Uh so if you’re eating real whole foods, you know, it’s hard to get just proteins in whole foods, unless you’re doing maybe like venison or rabbit or like boneless chicken breast. But if you’re eating full fat foods, you’re gonna get fat. And then if you’re adding fats to your vegetables, you’re gonna get extra fat without the protein there as well.

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So keep that at the back of your head.

Evan Brand: Perfect.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Anyone listening here, give us comments below. Give us some shares. Give us some likes. We want to hear thoughts in the comment section. If you’re listening to us on iTunes, that’s great. Click below and subscribe to our YouTube channel. You can see Evan and I’s mugs going back and forth in our little combos here. And then you can give us some comments below here on YouTube. We love the see the feedback. And Evan, hey man, you have a great day. We’ll talk soon.

Evan Brand: Take care.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Take care. Bye.

Evan Brand: Bye.




Hashimoto’s Triggers – Autoimmune Thyroid – Live Podcast #143

Hashimoto’s Disease - Autoimmune Thyroid

Dr. Justin Marchegiani and Evan Brand talk about the different causes and triggers of Hashimoto’s disease. Find out how it is connected to one’s immune system, diet and gut health and learn why women are more susceptible to having it.

The thyroid, adrenals and gut health are important factors to consider in addressing Hashimoto’s disease. Listen to this podcast and learn about the natural solutions and beneficial supplements to support them.

In this episode, we will cover:

01:29   Hashimoto’s Disease

09:24   Socialized Medicine

13:40   Use of Secretory IGA in Measuring the Immune System

15:39   Women and Stress-sensitivity

18:24   Ketogenic Diet, Insulin Resistance and Hashimoto’s







Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And we’re back! Evan, it’s Dr. J. How are we doing, man?

Evan Brand: Pretty good. How are you doing?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Good. I’m loving the ambience. My new plantation shutters in the background; just loving that there. Just nice. Ready for an excellent day. Got a little lunch break here. I’m seeing patients all morning. Ready to drop some knowledge bombs, and then get back to patients in the afternoon. How are you doing, on your afternoon?

Evan Brand: Yes. Likewise, same story. I had a female client this morning, who I was telling you over air. We had run her blood work before…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhhmm–

Evan Brand: …previously. And it was basically just a checkup. I said, “Hey, why don’t we check your thyroids?” She didn’t really have hyper or hypo symptoms, and she showed up with thyroglobulin antibodies, which is one of the type of antibodies you and I test our clients for on blood. And she showed up with a level of 50. And we should see that, as minimal as possible. I mean, hopefully less than 1, but she’s had a 50. And she said, “What’s triggering this?” And, we can go into that today, but I was hoping you and I could really outline a lot of different causes and triggers of Hashimoto’s because it’s so common in our females, we see it every single week. It’s like – well, there different triggers for different people. So, hopefully, we can try to go into a couple of different arenas here, and talk about the big puzzle pieces.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I like that. And then people on Facebook, we also got Evan’s audio on the background, too. So, if you’re listening on Facebook, go over, jump on YouTube, justinhealth.– or and vice versa with YouTube. Get on the Facebook page so you can get this live feed. We’d like to them and do our Q&A’s too. So this is great. So, a hundred percent. Hashimoto’s the big issue, vex about 30– or thyroid issues, about 30 million people in this country, uh – I’d say, at least, hmmn– I’d say a quarter of probably undiagnosed, or at least undertreated or undersupported because they’re given synthetic thyroid medication. That’s– is T4, right? T4 in origin. And then you have these various enzymes called D2 and D3, that help convert and activate thyroid hormone. And the problem is those enzymes, if you have Hashimoto’s, there’s a good chance that D2, D3 and even D1 enzymes are not working optimally, so then that conversion of T4 to T3 – that inactive thyroid hormone to active T3, about 400 percent increase in the metabolic activity of T3 versus T4, those enzymes aren’t there for the conversion. So that’s a big issue, right? [crosstalk] And not to mention, when you take a thyroid hormone, you’re getting a T4, right? But you’re also getting T3, right? Triiodothyronine, which is your active thyroid hormone, you’re getting T2, which isn’t even tested, right? T2, uh– Diiodothyronine, is a metabolically active hormone, only measure in the research settings, and not even really talked about in conventional medicine, T1, T0, Calciton, which is very helpful for Calcium metabolism. So, again, we’re not getting that in our conventional thyroid medication. The big thing is those D2, D3 enzymes that you’re missing, that T4 to T3 conversion with. So lots of people are being medicated with thyroid hormone, right? Synthroid, Levoxyl, Levothyroxine. Though TSH comes back in the normal range, so they look good on their conventional doctors uh– thyroid test, but they still have all these thyroid symptoms, right there. The thinning hair, the outer third of the eyebrows, swelling of the hands and feet, anxiety, mood issues, constipation, depression, and they’re not getting better.

Evan Brand: So, why? What’s up with these enzymes? What’s happening to them?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, I mean, there’s the underlying physiology, typically, inflammation, right? Inflammation is what drives people into that disease, or pathological state, right? And that pathological state means more symptoms, right. All the things I just mentioned, the moods, the digestive stuff, uhhmm– the hair loss stuff, the energy, the weight gain, all those things are gonna be affected. Now, a big component we talked about it, ‘cause a lot of these issues, right, thyroid-based things are gonna be autoimmune in nature, so autoimmune means your immune system is actually attacking your thyroid gland, so you have these antibodies, like TPO or Thyroperoxidase, you have antithyroglobulin antibodies, and these are primarily with Hashimoto’s, for instance, and they come and they attack your thyroid gland. And that’s about 90 percent– let’s say 50 to 90 percent are autoimmune in nature, so you and your conventional medical doctor or your endocrinologist says, “Oh, here’s – here’s the conventional thyroid pill.” They’re not actually getting to the underlying immune– immune imbalance, right? They’re not fixing the underlying things, like gluten, right. Grains and gluten, and that molecular mimicry that happens where your immune system can be exacerbated ‘cause of Gluten. That’s the one, one really big component. Couple of others will be gut – the gut issues. So, small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, gut bacterial imbalances, infections, H.pylori, Blastocystis hominis, uh– Lyme or Borrelia burgdorferi, uhm – Yersinia enterocolitica. So those are just a lot of gut infections that can significantly affect your GI. And again, that sulphatase enzyme in the gut made by healthy bacteria, really helps to activate, that thyroid hormone really helps to upregulate those D2, D3 enzymes to get your T4 to T3. So, all that technical jargon, what the heck does it mean? We’re trying to get your– your active thyroid hormone up higher; that’s the goal. Your T3 levels, get them up higher because, just doing it on the conventional side, and say, “Hey, let’s give you uh– a synthetic thyroid hormone.” That may not be enough to actually get the end stage thyroid hormones better. It may make the upstage TSH look better but not the downstream T4 and T3.

Evan Brand: Conventional, like the National Institute of Health, though, say that the Hashimoto’s affects one to two percent of people in the United States. Do you agree? One to two percent or do you think it’s much greater?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So you’re saying– repeat that question, one more time for me.

Evan Brand: National Institute of Health– is it – do you heard– are you hearing echoes? Is that messing you up?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: No. No problem. I just got a comment here. Someone’s saying they’re not hearing the audio on the YouTube site. [crosstalk] You guys are hearing the audio, give me a thumbs-up here, but I think we’re looking good.

Evan Brand: Okay. So, National Institute of Health, they say, “Hashimoto’s affects one to two percent of people in the United States.” I think it’s much, much higher. Izabella Wentz, I think she gave a number that was much, much higher too. What’s your take on this percentage here?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I think it could be much higher, for sure. I think it could be much higher, and the big issue is that most doctors they aren’t testing for thyroid antibodies. That’s the major issue. Uh– we talked about a patient this morning over in Canada, whose doctors aren’t uhm– they aren’t even testing for thyroid antibodies. And the big reason why is because, think about it, right? If the solution is a synthetic thyroid hormone, like Levoxyl, or Synthroid, or Levothyroid, right, if that’s the ultimate end game, and that doesn’t change whether there’s autoimmunity or gluten issues, or infections, then it stays the same. Why change that, right? Why change that variable up because they’re not gonna do anything different if something else comes back, right? Does that makes sense?

Evan Brand:  Yes, it does.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Even though 90 percent are autoimmune in nature, right? Even though 90 percent of thyroid issue’s autoimmune, they’re not gonna do anything different anyway, so why even look for it? Because then, it just creates more questions the doctors have to answer, and they don’t like to answer questions they’re not prepared to uhm– to answer. Most people…

Evan Brand: And they’re not trained, because if antibodies do come back, they’ve got nothing. They’ve got no way to talk about Klebsiella and Citrobacter bacteria that need to be treated. Uh– yeah, and so uh – just to give a little bit more back story on the Canada, so– you know, Justin and I both have clients in Canada.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: And they’ll say, “Hey, we’ve got health insurance over here. It’s free.” But there’s a catch to that. It’s not that good. All they’re gonna do is they’re gonna run, like, a one-marker, like maybe TSH, and then based on that they may give you a prescription drug. But if you don’t have your free T3, the reverse T3, the TPO, the TG antibodies we talked about, may not always using Algin, maybe you tell me there’s a better analogy, but mine is: if you just have TSH and you’re trying to treat thyroid, it’s like touching the sidewalk and estimating the forecast.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. That analogy sounds really, really familiar. I don’t know why.

Evan Brand: There’s no way you came up with that. I’m pretty sure…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I came up – I came up with that one. That’s been around for, like, six or seven years, ‘cause that’s how I teach my patients about TSH– TSH. The receptor sites in the pituitary are hypersensitive. The thyroid hormone, therefore, uhm – TSH will drop– will drop more precipitously because the brain is sensing thyroid hormone being a lot higher then what it is. So, peripherally, the thyroid hormones never get high enough and the periphery in the actual tissues but it’s– it’s high enough in the brain ‘cause the brain’s more sensitive to thyroid hormones. So, TSH will always drop faster than what the peripheral tissues need uh– in the periphery there for thyroid hormone. That’s why you don’t want to base your dosing or your support of the TSH 100 percent, ‘cause the TSH is so sensitive. Touch the sidewalk outside when it’s a hundred degrees out, it’s gonna be able to fry an egg on it, right. But again, the air temperature will always be a lot cooler. The peripheral tissues will always be less saturated with thyroid hormone uh– than the latter. Make sense?

Evan Brand: I’ll give it– I’ll give you a credit. It must have rubbed off of me then, if you had that one before. [laughs]

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It did. I do– that’s mine. That’s uh– that’s a Dr. J-ism. But I’m– getting back on your thing, man, yeah. Socialized medicine for the most parts thinks– Okay, I’ve seen patients from all over the world. All over the world, Europe, Canada– Socialized Medicine’s great if you only need it for acute traumatic issues, right? You sprain your ankle, right? You have to go to the ER, ‘cause of some reason. But outside of that, if you getting stuck on that chronic conventional model, all you have for options are conventional drugs, right? And then number two the waits are like, three to six months to get in. Again, this is what happens. I have hundreds of patients where I’ve had this story, literally had this story they literally told me over and over again. And then because everything is socialized, the government says we’re not gonna reimburse. Reimburse then guess what happens. There’s not a market place for it, right? There’s less people going underground. Now, I do have people over in Canada that are functional medicine doctors and they’re doing– they’re thriving even in a socio uh– even in a uhm– sociological medicine society there, right? Even with a socialized medicine society because, people aren’t getting better even though the medicine’s free they’re still going in paying a lot of functional medicine doctors. And again, we start today. Why am I hampering on this is because, that doctor wasn’t running TPO or any of the thyroid antibodies. So, the socialized medicine said, “Nope. We are not gonna test your thyroid antibodies. We deemed that not appropriate, and this person needs to know they have Hashimoto’s so they can make changes with their immune system, with their gluten, with the gut, with a lot of the converting nutrients to help T$ and T3.

Evan Brand: So let’s– let’s go through a list. I know, we could kind of jump around but, maybe we could do like a top five [crosstalk] or maybe even like a top ten.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Let’s do it.

Evan Brand: So, number one– in no particular order, but number one, you already mentioned gluten. So, this would include any grains, right? ‘Cause even like our Amaranths, our Buckwheat, our Kiwa. That Kiwa could still be cross-reactive and trigger the antibodies, right?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Correct. I would still stay away from all grains. Grains probably being number one trigger becau– partly because of the amino acid sequence in the grains, I very similar to the surface proteins of the thyroid. That’s number one. So [inaudible]…

Evan Brand: What about now? Are you seeing issues with him?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, I mean, that’s a cross-reactive thing so, if gluten is like, you know – if gluten is like the brother and sister, you know, Hamp’s kind of like, maybe the cousin, right?

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: The second cousin once removed, so to speak. S, again uhm– it may be something that needs to be pulled out with someone on an autoimmune kind of elimination provocation diet for at least a month or two. So, the grains component’s really important. Got to get that out. But not just the molecular mimicry thing. There’s uh– some research looking at Non-Celiac Gluten sensitivity, where they talked about gluten. Even in people that aren’t really Celiac or aren’t even a gluten, like, sensitive person, so to speak. Where just taking that gluten in, they still get gastrointestinal permeability. The guts gets a little bit leaky even with uhm – the fact that they aren’t really gluten-sensitive, so to speak. They aren’t gluten-sensitive but that’s the gut permeability that’s driven by the gluten. And prior, what’s happening is, we’re getting this protein called Zonulin increased. And Zonulin basically unzips, so it’s like an unbuttoning my shirt. That’s Zonulin, right? Unbuttoned zip, right? Opens that gut lining up, and then all these digestive proteins you get right through there.

Evan Brand: So, Zonulin goes up in the presence of grains. We had a question in the live chat about Brown rice. Absolutely, Brown rice would still be in a category of grains that you would want to remove.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: If you want to avoid Hashimoto’s. I tried to justify with you for a long time, “Oh, I love my white rice.” You know like, man, it’s just not worth it. And now uh– saw this stew– sweet potato now, and…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: …my skin. My skin’s actually gotten better, too. You know, Even though I’ve pulled out – I’ve pulled out the rice.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, man. You go back to your old uh– YouTube videos, you had some– some stuff going on there, [crosstalk] and you like’s porcelain skin.

Evan Brand: I tried gut bugs, too.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Use some gut bugs, man. You’re almost up to a runway model status, Evan.

Evan Brand: I don’t know about that but I appreciate it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You’re getting there. Good.

Evan Brand: Oh, so gluten, [crosstalk] so gluten grain…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Gluten and the Zonulin – gluten, the Zonulin stuff and then also other grains still may have some gut irritating compounds, right? The Lectins, some of the Phytates, some of the Oxalates, some of those things, which can be irritating on the gut. So, really, it comes down to like, getting the immune system in the molecular mimicry going. But then it also has some impact on the Zonulin and the leaky gut.

Evan Brand: Okay, so you already said the immune system. Let’s hit on that piece. Let’s make that like our number two or number three. Uhm – we can measure the immune system with the secretory IGA on the Stool Test that we’re running on people.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: Uhm – can we go on that number and just use secretory IGA as our immune system, kind of our first line of defense?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: And if we see IGA’s low, can we say, “Okay, you’re more susceptible or…”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: A hundred percent.

Evan Brand: …this will trigger?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. We’ll see low IGA levels. IGA is that mucosal membrane barrier. It’s that first line of defense that lines the gastrointestinal tract, all your mucus membranes, your mouth, you know, our anal cavities, flatulent tract, urinary canal, everything. Every little surface there, even your eyes have IGA in the surface there. Your first line of immune defense. So, when that gets weakened, typically, it will go up and there’s an acute infection. You’ll see it there. We run Stool Test while measuring the stool, and then we’ll actually see it drop down for Chronic Stress. So IGA’s really important, ‘cause that’s a good measurement that your immune system is under stress.

Evan Brand: Right. So, a lot of times, more often than not, you and I are gonna see chronically low IGA, indicating that someone’s been dealing with these issues for a long time. So, Chronic Stress, overwork, maybe they’re not sleeping as well as…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: Maybe they have gut infections that are damaging that IGA because people may say, “Well, if I’ve got Hashimoto’s, how did I get a low immune system in the first place?” Well, chicken or egg, all of it– I mean, you could have had adrenal stress, which then weaken the gut. Then you picked up gut bugs, or vice versa.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, absolutely.

Evan Brand: Okay, what’s– what’s next?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, typically it’s a combination of emotional stress that tends to set people up. That tends to be it. So, there’s, you know, you choose with whatever’s happening with your life: work stress, financial stress, family stress, kid’s stress. Whatever’s happening there, that tends to set things up, and that will weaken the immune system.

Evan Brand: I had a female client did uh– that I talked with earlier. She’s a teacher, so she’s on summer break, right now. She’s feeling much, much better. But when she’s back in school, she’s done. She wants to get out of the field of teaching. Everything kind of gets worst, symptom-wise.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: So that’s a good example of work stress…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: …right there.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, absolutely. And then, women are a little bit more prone to it, because there’s actually a research on this, where their immune system can go out of balance. Like, one emotional, like, you have an emotional argument with the woman, their IO6, their Intergluten-6 can go out of balance for up to two days after a fight. For some of the men, they can go out of balance for like a few hours, but then it’s back in. So I always– this is part of the mechanism why women are more prone to autoimmune conditions. Their immune system probably just a little bit more, I should say, a little more sensitive. And there’s also the Estrogen issue, right, because, Estrogen can affect the CD4 to CD8 balance. And they can skew that balance. So, the more women are Estrogen dominant. That can throw off their immune system. Their CD8, CD4, their natural killer cell, to help her cell ratio. CDH’s your natural killer. Your CD4’s your helper cell. And they could skew that ratio uh – up.

Evan Brand: So, I’m guessing the– like the ancestral view of why woman’s immune system would be more sensitive. Would you say just because of uh– uh– having children, where the immune’s got to be able to modulate itself not to attack and kill the fetus, for example. So, their immune system’s a little bit more variable than a man. Or what do you think is the ancestral lenses?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I think, it probably has to do with uhm– I think it probably has to do with just raising children in that extra level of empathy, being able to take on other people’s feelings, and kind of be able to uuuh– what’s your need, right? You got, like, you know, you’re raising a child. You have to be to really sense what’s going on. I think that may play into it. I’ve zero evidence outside. That’s just my opinion; just observation. But there’s research and studies on that. Also, blood sugar can throw people’s immune system off to. So like skipping meals, and not giving enough nutrition, and just going long periods of time. So, that’s a big thing, right. That’s a big thing, so, I just, you know, I tell people just make sure you get your communication and your relationships kind of dialed-in. If you’re having issues with the spouse, get the communication down. Try to get, like, try to create a really good environment, where you can communicate, and you’re not gonna get flooded and drive people’s immune systems off.

Evan Brand: Right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You know, that’s kind of, that’s number one. Number two, so let’s get meals, right. Now, when you’re healthier, you can play around with intermittent fasting, okay. That’s a good tool, but you got to get it dialed-in with your hormones good first, and you feeling good first. I may get that dialed-in later on.

Evan Brand: Oh, how about Ketosis too. Like, I tried it with Dr. Mercola, and he’s like– he’s like concerned that a lot of people are going into a ketogenic diet but they’re doing it for too long. So, he’s kind of a proponent of, like, five days on and then two days off. Or hold his go and eat potatoes, and things like that. And really kind of carb-griefy. So, how much of this thyroid epidemic, Hashimoto’s even kid of in the Health Space where you and I are working. These women come into us. They have triggered Hashimoto’s, do you think Ketogenic diet could be a trigger, potentially?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, I think, Ketogenic diet has actually helped a lot of people with Hashimoto’s, especially ones that are insulin-resistant, because insulin-resistance can actually block thyroid conversion. So, that’s my issue– is if your insulin-resistant, you may do really well with the Ketogenic diet for a while, but then you may hit the wall.

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, then the question. When you hit the wall, that’s where you may start gradually increasing your carbs up. Maybe 10 grams a week, and maybe do a couple of low carb days, like Keto days, and then come out for one or two days in the higher carb side. But, I think, if you’re coming into this, being overweight, with uh– hips circum– you know, waist circumference greater than 35 for a female, 40 for a male. There’s probably some level of insulin-resistance that a Ketogenic diet will help reverse. But then you may have to refine or retune your carbohydrate thresholds afterwards.

Evan Brand: Okay, and that will always be based on adrenal health, and that would be based on, maybe, Vitamin D status or gut infections, depressants, of those. There’s always more, more things, so when people find, “Oh! Ketogenic diet,” It’s like there’s so many different variables out there and these other pieces of the puzzle.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, yeah. I mean, Atkins was sniffing around the right area when he started talking about Ketogenic diets in the 70’s. the problem with Atkins is, he didn’t put enough qualifiers on it. I mean, okay, great. So I eat a whole bunch of meat now, is that gonna be hormone antibiotic, free, you know, laden meat, or is it gonna be organic grass-fed. Oh, Atkins says soy protein’s okay. Eeh! Aspartame’s splendid, okay. Eeh! Right, not good. So, protein quality’s really important. So, if you’re gonna do protein powders, you know, Collagen peptides, you know, P protein, like maybe– maybe some really good grass-fed wheat protein, right. Choose really good protein sources if it’s powder. Or choose really healthy meat souces, or really fat sources. Lots of toxins are stored in the fat, so if you’re eating diseased animals, you’re not gonna get high quality of uh– of a meat product passed down to you from a nutrient perspective.

Evan Brand: Yep, well said. Okay, so we hit the secretory IGA, we hit the Zonulin, we hit the gluten.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Also, we talked about thyroid nodules too, right. Someone on uhm– Facebook here, had commented here. So, thyroid nodules are just like these little abnormal tissue spots in the thyroid, but typically gonna be driven by autoimmunity, right. So, Hashimoto’s gonna be the major thing. Hashimoto’s, typically, is an autoimmunity that is involving TPO antibodies, and antithyroglobulin antibodies. Now, again, all autoimmunity, for the most part, will end in low thyroid. The difference is grave disease has a couple of antibodies that can jack up thyroid functioning. Keep it up to the point where you may stroke or you may have an issue if left untreated. So, we that with TSI or Thyroid Stimulating Immunoglobulin and also TSH Receptor antibodies, so, which you want to make sure under control. Why? It helped saved many thyroid uhm – from going into uh – graves or a thyroid storm state by using specific nutrients to help it. and also…

Evan Brand: What happened with uh– with thyroid nodules? Let’s say, someone…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: …has antibodies at that point. Maybe we suggest they go get a thyroid ultrasound. They say– Okay, hey. Can you palpate? Like, would you suggest an ultrasound, or can you palpate and figure out whether you have nodules?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, great. Let’s go into that. So, try to palpate the thyroid is – Find the Adam’s apple, so like, mine’s right here.

Evan Brand: Get a little closer to the mic, so people can hear good.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. This is your Adam’s apple right here. Right. So, I feel here. I go down, about one centimeter, and then out a centimeter. And, you know, I would do it by standing behind myself, who I can step out of my body. About be here. I touched each side and I press it into the other. And I would have myself swallow water. And I would feel, just for any irregularities in the surface. It will be almost impossible to do it to yourself just as I demonstrated with the angle. But you would stand from behind someone, and you have just nice flat palms, and you just go through the surface, and you touched, you pushed, and you want to feel it come out in the other side. And basically, you want to just feel a smooth surface, and you want to not feel it as an inflamed puffy. You have to feel a couple normal ones to know but, that will give you a pretty good idea.

Evan Brand: The ultrasound sounds easier though. I mean, let’s just say, that you come back with nodules, what happens? Do you just – do you just play the waiting game? You just watch him or how do you approach it?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I mean, it depends where you’re at, right? There’s always that increase chance of potential thyroid cancer, right. So, it’s good to get that screened, ‘cause of the increased risk. But it’s not the first thing I worry about. Because if you just do all the things that we tell you, I can’t tell you how many patients whose nodules have just significantly reduced. Significantly reduced.

Evan Brand: Yep.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Though, I’ve seen that happen so many times, so, hey, you know, just run it by your endo. See what they say. And then just let them know that you’re gonna do some things on the functional medicine side. And, come back and monitor it. you just want to make sure it’s moving in the right direction. Now, some nodules can be caused by low Iodine, too. Again, w tend to get enough Iodine, a couple hundred MIC’s really odd. You need like 200 MIC’s is like they already– hey, you may need a little bit more, but you got to be careful with supplementing Iodine because the Iodination process that happens, so– Iodination is nothing more than the Iodine bonding to the Thyroxine molecules to make your thyroid hormone, right? Like T4 is your Thyroxine, your 4 molecules, your Thyroxine bound to four molecules of Iodine. That process of binding it and pulling out the sticking glue getting stuck there. That’s called Iodination. That process spits of a lot of Hydrogen peroxide which can be inflammatory. And that can drive a lot of B cell infiltration. Your immune cells into your thyroid and exacerbate that autoimmune attack. So you got to be careful off the bat when giving any Iodine. So I always like to get in the Selenium in there first, get the diet dialed-in, get the lifestyle stuffed-out then, and then really lower the information first before I go after it. And if we go after it, we’ll titrate that slowly. We won’t go at it hard. There’s a lot of docs out there that go really high in the Iodine I don’t recommend going high of the bat. I think it’s better off going slower, and work on the foundational stuff first.

Evan Brand: Yeah. Love it. Uh – I was gonna ask you a question about Iodine. I forgot what it was. Tsk. Darn. I lost my point. Alright. Let’s keep moving on. What else comes to mind for triggers.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. So we talked about the food stuff. We talked about blood sugar, we talked about emotional stress. That’s still a big one, okay. Because, emotional stress taps in to your sympathetic nervous system and your sympathetic nervous system wires right down to the adrenals. And that’s umping out Cortisol. Pumping out Adrenaline. And your body will always sacrifice sex hormones for stress hormones. It’s just the hardwired adaptation. Right? If you don’t survive today, you’re not gonna have to worry about reproducing tomorrow, right?

Evan Brand: Yep.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, gut component– the gut component’s very important. We talked about gut bacteria, and how the healthy bacteria’s really helpful with the Sulphatase. Also, that’s where we absorb nutrients, right/ that’s where we absorb a lot of our B Vitamins, a lot of our minerals, a lot of our amino acids, right. Thyroxines and amino acids, that’s part of making thyroid hormone. Also, 70 to 80 percent of your immune system is located in your gut, right? So, you want to jack up your immune system, you know, just get your gut in bad shape by not digesting food, putting a lot of inflammatory things in there. [crosstalk] And uh – throwing off your gut bacteria and uh – whole bunch of steroids from the foods, antibiotics from the foods, anantibiotics in your uh – medicines for maybe, reasons that, maybe be unwanted, so to speak.

Evan Brand: Right. Yeah, the gut’s huge. I mean…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: I don’t really like the term SIBO because it’s so generic, but you and I, we see so many different species of bacteria. We can assume that most of them are going to be growing up from the colon to the small intestine.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: So if you’ve never been diagnosed to SIBO, or any type of bacterial overgrowth, like specifically, Justin and I are gonna  be looking for, like, a Citrobacter or Klebsiella, or there’s two species of Proteus. Those are all autoimmune trigger bacteria. That’s in the literature too. So, if you’ve got bacterial overgrowth, bacterial infections, parasites, Yeast, or like we see many times a combination. So it could be a Citrobacter, plus Blastocystis hominis, a parasite, plus Candida. That’s uh – that a – that’s a triple whammy there.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: That could definitely cause the antibodies to go up. The good thing is this is reversible, right. Now, would you say– I know for us, you know, we’re not medical doctors so we can’t use the term uh– cure. Uh– but is it possible for a cure for Hashimoto’s or when you get your antibodies down, let’s say, you were at a 50 on your TG antibodies, and we do all the good work with you. We get the antibodies back down, let’s say, below a five. Are you cured or can you always just rebound quicker than the average person back up to that bad state of Hashimoto’s again?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I mean, you can always ramp back up, but it’s all about adaptation, right? The healthier you are, the greater ability you have  to adapt to stress. So, when you have the susceptibility for a certain disease. So, someone posted on Facebook, I have anti-NaN antibodies, that’s kind of a very broad sense, but your predisposed to certain conditions, certain diseases. Maybe Rheumatoid arthritis, maybe Lupus, maybe Scleroderma, maybe CREST, right. So a lot of autoimmune conditions you may now predispose for. But that just means you have the genetic triggers, those genetic switches, are kind of right in the middle, and if those stressors flick it down, right, that stress could flip that gene on and they could activate. So we managed all the things that we talked about, right? Blood sugar, nutrient density, stress, grains, gut health, uhm – being infection-free, ideally, healthy probiotics, healthy gut bacteria, and then making sure that if there’s thyroid damage already, we support that, making sure we support thyroid activation, right. Zinc, Magnesium, CoQ10, Selenium, maybe the right Iodine, use your functional doctors resource, making all those nutrients and things are dialed-in. That’s gonna significantly help improve your resiliency, so if you do have a disease, you may be able to– your body may be able to keep it in check enough, were the symptoms aren’t even visible. But some they say you’re cured, but legally we can’t say you’re cured.

Evan Brand: Right, exactly. What about the liver? What’s the role of the liver?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Yeah. So the liver’s really important ‘cause a lot of those deionized enzymes. They come from the liver, right. So, the liver’s really stressed and taxed dealing with the whole bunch of fructose coming in there, ‘cause your Insulin-resistant or toxins, and round-up and pesticides, and a whole bunch of junk. It may not be able to do its job, activating and converting thyroid hormones, so we want to make sure, number one, that we are uhm – keeping the stress off it. ‘Cause a lot of liver stuff is more about to stop adding crap to the system, right?

Evan Brand: Exactly.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And then number two, I know, Izabella Wentz talks about it in her book, the Hashimoto Protocol. She starts a lot of her patients on a liver cleanse that first month, which can be helpful. So, Liver Support Phase 1, Phase 2, detox support. In my line, it’s uh– Phase 1 is either uhm– Antioxidant Supreme or Liver Supreme, and then Phase 2 is gonna be Detox Aminos. That supports all the Phase 1 and Phase 2 pathways that run your liver. The fat-soluble, the water-soluble, and the water-soluble to excretion in Phase 2. That’s really important.

Evan Brand: So, list of some ingredients. So this is like your Methionines, your Taurines, your milk fissles, [crosstalk] your Vitamins A, you Beet powder, your Artichoke extract.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Artichoke, yeah. And then your Phase 2 is gonna be  more of your amino acids. That’s like an acetylation, methylation, uh– glutathione conjugation. All that stuff. So cysteine, glutamine, glycine, uh – taurine’s in there, methionine, uh– We throw Calcium-D-Glucarate in there. Those are really good compounds.

Evan Brand: Cool, cool. Uhm–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So I think we hit some good triggers. We talked about some things to help about things to help with thyroid conversion too. We talked about the liver, we talked about the infections and the leaky gut, and then yeah. The whole thing about gluten– oh by the way.– uh– I’ll tell you off the air.

Evan Brand: Alright. Alright.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: But I’m–

Evan Brand: Hey. Let me tell you something that– before you – I want to –  I want to mention two things. I believe we hit it already, but the adrenal piece, uh– with Cortisol stress, with adrenal problems. You can also pack the conversion of T4 to T3 hormone there. So you got to get your adrenals checklist.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes. Oh yeah. We got to hit that, man.

Evan Brand: Yeah. So…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: So, if you’re working on your thyroid, but you’re not working on your gut, and your adrenals, your results are likely going to not be very good, because adrenal stress is gonna reduce the conversion rate. And then, you can go back to it. But let me say one other thing. I had a client this morning. She was trying to justify uh– eating gluten, and grains, and crackers and stuf like that, because of her food-sensitivity test.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly where I was going, man. You’ve read my mind.

Evan Brand: Alright. Her food-sensitivity test said, “I’m not sensitive to gluten.”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: And so, she’s still doing gluten. I said, throw your food-sensitivity test away.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: yeah. I mean the big issue, right. Some of the non-celiac gluten sensitivity research. People that weren’t even gluten-sensitive, they have increased gut permeability.

Evan Brand: Say that again. Just to make sure that it’s like super clear for people.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. People that weren’t gluten-sensitive, right, they weren’t like celiac, they weren’t like having any gluten issues, based on conventional standards, when they got exposed to gluten, they noticed some level of leaky gut, some level of permeability in the gut. Based on the study’s objective criteria diagnosis for it. So that means, more leaky gut, means more immunogenic compounds, undigested foods, LPS, Casein, right – all these things. Dysbiotic bacteria may get into that bloodstream, may start to cause some immune system kind of pissed off, right? Then it may go out looking for that thyroid tissue, or maybe even uhm– the pancreas, or other tissues, or other autoimmune tissues.

Evan Brand: Or even if it doesn’t go straight to that, the gluten could still cause a leaky gut situation, which then sets you up. So, when you go to Sushi Night, you could go pick up Blasto, or some other parasite, which then causes even more damage…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah

Evan Brand: …which then leads to the antibodies. SO, one way or another, you’re setting yourself up. There’s really just no justification for gluten in the diet.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, exactly. I won’t give any press to the book. It’s out there right now. We’ve talked about it before.

Evan Brand: [inaudible]

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. People say, “Oh. Gluten this and that, maybe okay.” Not necessarily okay. I don’t think it’s uhm– something that people should be consuming. Some people may be able to handle it. Again, if you’re gonna consume gluten, you better off doing it and uhm– sourdough form, if you’re gonna do it. Or, you know, if  you are healthier, right, and you’re on the right track. Every now and then you wanna do a little bit of white rice, as a treat. As long as you’re doing good, as long as you’re on point, right, then I think that’s okay.

Evan Brand: Yep. Yeah, for sure. Alright now, uhm– there was something else. I interrupted you. I hit the Adrenal piece, and I had to talk about the food-sensitivity testing and the lady trying to justify gluten.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, that was it. I think we hit it, and I think just the– the adrenal imbalance, whether high Cortisol or low. So, Chronic stress, low cortisol, with the reverse Cortisol rhythm, or acute stress, really high Cortisol, both can affect your thyroid conversion and activation.

Evan Brand: Yep, yep. Got it. So, I mean, yes. You can take adaptogenic herbs. We love, we promote those, but that’s still not addressing the root cause. So if you hate your job, we can give you all the Ashwagandha, Rhodiola, uh– Siberian Ginseng in the world, and we’re gonna help you adapt to the stress, but you still got to remove the stress. It’s like I know you see the analogy of the engine life, putting the tape over the uh – the check engine light in the car. I like the analogy of like a doorbell too. Like if you keep pushing the doorbell. Uh– your still gonna have issues. You can try to like disable a doorbell, but it’s still being pressed. Like, you hate your job, or you’ve got a turbo relationship. I had a woman, who she told me. She said straight up, “Evan, until I divorce my husband, I will not get better.” And I said, “Well, I fully support you in that decision.” And now, she’s going through the divorce. She’s already starting to lose weight, just based on the reduction of the emotional stress. So I think that’s just amazing, and unfortunately, that happens. But, if you wanna be healthy, you got to make some tough decisions, sometimes.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I agree. I appreciate you’d actually given me credit for that analogy. I thought you were gonna pawn that one off of yourself.

Evan Brand: [laughs] No, definitely not.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Good, ‘cause I wasn’t gonna give you, like, two Paleo demerits for that, but I’ll hold those back.

Evan Brand: Appreciate it. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Good. You got a credit in a bank of Dr. J here. Excellent. So, I think we hit everything: the Cortisol stuff, we hit the gut stuff. Someone over here, I’ll try him in. So, someone talked about this is functional medicine on demand, can Candida hang around in the thyroid? Candida can create things known as acetaldehyde. Acetaldehyde can be inflammatory, right. Like, it’s one of the products of alcohol. So that can be inflammatory and really affect things. Candida can also get the immune system wrap up. Uhm –  Candida or acetaldehyde in the gut can convert in the Salsolinol. Salsolinol’s known to increase uhm– antibodies to uhm– receptors for dopamine in the substantia nigra midbrain. So, that can create other issues with autoimmunity, so yeah. Candida is not a good thing either. And that’s, you know, that’s according to conventional medicine, not really to exist at all. But we see it all the time.

Evan Brand: Oh, yeah. I mean, Honestly, and I think I may have mentioned this. I told you this or I told people on the air already, uh– sorry if I’ve repeated myself. I’m sure we do that all the time.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: But, when I first started learning about Candida and yeast, I thought, “Oh, candida, Yeast.” You know, I kind of put it on like the bottom of the totem pole, below bacteria and below parasites, in terms of the effect on the body. But I’ve seen all kinds of crazy stuff with Candida alone, where it’s like, whether it’s brain fog, depression, fatigue, cravings, I mean, something that sounds so benign. “Oh, Candida,” “I’m gonna do a Candida Cleanse.” It’s like, a lot of people promote it, kind of like– almost like it doesn’t exist, or almost like, it’s a trendy topic, and you can just do some type of, like, “Candida Cleanse smoothie”, “go buy my online candida program and you’re gonna get better”. It doesn’t work that way. But, candida can affect almost everybody’s system, whether it’s adrenals, whether it’s gut, whether it’s Lewd…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.

Evan Brand: …depression, anxiety, etc., It can all stem just from a Yeast overgrowth. And I would say, you tell me if your stats are different on your side of clients, but for me, I’ve seen about, nine out of every ten people, shows up with Yeast.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and the big issue with Candida and Yeast is that, some people have it but, it’s just the tip of the Iceberg. The other infections that may trumpet, so to speak in the hierarchy. So, Candida may be an issue in some people, it can be a main issue. Right? Like, we’ll run a Stool Test, and we’ll see it like, “Oh. We have some Candida there.” And then we’ll look at another test. Nothing else comes back. And then on uh– Organic Acids. We’ll see the Arabinose, or the Arabinitol, really high, so we’ll, “Okay. This really maybe a Candida issue.” And then we’d see some clinical symptoms, like uhm– Seborrheic dermatitis or Cradle cap, or just you know, dandruff. You may see some yellow-discolored fingernails, maybe some white coating in the mouth, maybe some tinea versicolor rash. Right? We may see some of those things that may say, “Hey. This may be a primary Candida issue and we hit it hard.”

Evan Brand: You said that a bit quick. The tinea– what’s that? Yeah. It’s like little blotches on the skin.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay. They just look like little blotches, and it’s uhm– it’s pretty smooth to the skin. It’s not really itchy. It doesn’t really spread but you want to kind of gross yourself out. Just put it in the Google images, and you’ll see the umpteenth degree of it. But it’s just gentle blotches on the skin. They tend to be a little [inaudible]and scarred.

Evan Brand: I know sometimes people may think it’s that but it could be like Keratosis pilaris instead.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Keratosis pilaris tends to be a little bit more flaky, and uhm– that tends to hit the back of the arms. [inaudible]…

Evan Brand: Yeah. Such like on your triceps he’s pointing to.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …like little back here. Right? That tends to be essential fatty acid stuff. So again, if you’re having issues digesting fats, someone in our live chat, so they don’t break down fat well. Hope you get the gut work done, ‘cause that’s a big, big component. ’Cause if you’re not breaking down fat well, you’re probably not breaking down protein well, either.

Evan Brand: So that would mean, if you’re spinning your heart and money on a good quality fish oil, then you could be potentially wasting your money even if it’s triglyceride form, if digestion’s compromised.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I mean, most underrated supplements out there, if you were to start on two things: enzymes and HCl. That’s it. Enzymes and HCl get the diet. [clears throat] Excuse me; frog at me. Get the diet a hundred percent dialed-in so, you can actually break down that food. Put the money on the food quality. Get the food quality up.

Evan Brand: Yep. I had a lady tell me, she’s like, “I feel so much better by doing Apple cider vinegar. I don’t notice taking enzymes and HCl.” And I was like, “Okay. You can try it. But I– I’ve still think HCl and enzymes do better than just …

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh.

Evan Brand: …apple cider vinegar but– so…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Apple cider vinegar’s a great starting point if someone’s like, “Ooh. I don’t know. I’d had some bad reactions to HCl.” Okay. Great let’s just start with the teaspoon of apple cider, but, we’re gonna go with food in your belly first. And then they’ll do good, alright, let’s go to a tablespoon. [crosstalk] Okay, let’s go to–

Evan Brand: You know what I’d do? I make a little tonic. I’ll do like uh– apple cider vinegar. I recently got uh–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: …a lime, or like a citrus, squeezer. So, I’ll do like uh– a lime or lemon and uh– apple cider vinegar in there. And then, sometimes, I’ll add like some Vitamin C, or I’ll add that adrenal tincture I told you about. I’ll add that tincture to it. And it’s like a great little tonic.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I think that’s great, and then, typically, then we do a little graduation ceremony when we go from that apple cider vinegar to the HCl. That’s the next step.

Evan Brand: Yep.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Any of the comments said? What do you think, man?

Evan Brand: I think we should wrap it up. I think we’d hit a lot of different triggers here. And if people want to learn more, you’ve done plenty of videos on Hashimoto’s. We’ve done more podcasts on this, so there’s hours of more content, I’m sure, that we’ve created on this. So, just go on You can search Hashimoto’s or search thyroid. You could check out my site too, Evan Brand, and make sure you’re subscribed. So, if you want to join in on the conversation, we can answer your questions on the fly. And, of course, if you want to work with Justin, visit his site too, You can schedule. If you want to schedule with me, same thing, And, we’re available. We deal with this stuff all the time, and don’t take no for an answer. Somebody says, “No, I’m not gonna run these antibodies, then you leave.” You fire them because, if you want to get on the root cause of your issue. You have to have the biomarkers. If you’re guessing and checking, you’re building up your supplement graveyard, you’re not gonna get better that way. You really got to get these number on a piece of paper first, because you got to be able to track them and we have to be able to see. “Okay, look. Once we did this, we fix your gut. We got the adrenal support.” And look at the antibodies, drop, drop, drop, drop. And then eventually, “Hey. Maybe you don’t have a thyroid problem anymore.” And it’s totally possible we do it all the time.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Awesome. So, here’s the sequence. Ready? Instead of buying crap food, you increase the food quality, and you choose the right kinds of food. That’s number one. That will start to get– that will start to lower inflammation, and give you more energy. As you start having more energy, you can start cutting the emotional stress out of your life. Get used to it with your spouse. Work on it with your spouse. Get a book on communication. Get it– things fixed with your kids. Do your best to fix things at work. Whatever other stressors, all dealing with emotional stress takes energy. So most people that have a lot of emotional stress, typically they don’t have the energy to deal with it. So, get the energy up by just getting the food right. Then you can start to deal with the emotional stress. And then, once that’s kind of dialed-in, you can start adding in some supplements to fast-track it. first set iss gonna be digestive support, and after that, you really want to work with the functional medicine doc to get everything else dialed-in. But work on the foundational stuff first, and then make sure while you’re doing all that, you’re not causing yourself to spin around in a rabbit wheel. While you’re doing excessive exercise, too much CrossFit, just so you’re getting drained with that. And then if you can combine in the good sleep and the good hydration, now you’re set. So, now, when you go see a functional medicine doc, it’s like, “Boom!” You hit the ground running.

Evan Brand: Oh, man. We could– we could have done a whole podcast just on CrossFit and thyroid issues, so maybe for a future day. But yeah, over exercise – I have a lady last week. She said, she exercises CrossFit six or seven times a week. She’s doing CrossFit, and like, “Gosh!” way too much.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And a CrossFit may be great if you’re – if you’re already healthy, if you’re diet’s spot on, if  you’re resting hard, if you’re doing some good things, post-workouts and pre-workouts to recover. But if you’re not there, it’s not gonna be the best thing for you to start off. Unless, you’re a gym’s got a really good On-Ramp Program, and they get the Arm Wrap style in, where they’re not doing some, you know– they have some great timing with their Arm Wraps, then it’s probably okay. But you got to go somewhere where there’s a good Arm Wrap Program.

Evan Brand: But even then, even if you were optimally healthy like you were talking about, would you still tell somebody, “Go do seven days a week in CrossFit?”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: No. No,– the only– I mean, professional athletes do that if they want, but they’re taking naps, and that’s their job during the day. But, the average person, typically, I would say, maxes four times a week.

Evan Brand: Working, living a life, being a parent or uh– spouse, I mean, it’s tough.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And, ideally, spread it out. Right? Monday, Tuesday– Monday, Wednesday, Friday gig, you know. During the week, trying to keep a day off in between.

Evan Brand: Yep, yep. Well said. You said something else in your, in your small rant. I forgot what it was. I was gonna– I was gonna ping off of it. But I guess we should wrap this thing up.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I mean, it’s funny, like, you ping me at lunch time, “Let’s do a podcast, alright.” And then we’re like “Only fifteen minutes. Only. That’s it.” Then, it’s all like, an hour later, “Damn it!”

Evan Brand: I know. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: “What happened?”

Evan Brand: I know.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We tried to be disciplined. 

Evan Brand: I know.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Alright. Well, I think we hit all the good stuff on the foundatinal side. Is there anything you wanted to add to the foundational piece?

Evan Brand: That’s exactly what it was. Blood sugar balance, make sure that that’s keep.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: That was exactly a blood sugar balance, hydration, you’re getting your good minerals, using your good salts, uh – using trace minerals if you have to, trace mineral supplements if needed.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: Uh– we talked about the fatty acids with the fish oil. Optimizing HCl and enzymes, supporting the liver, gull bladder, supporting detox pathways, supporting methylation if you have to, uh– and looking for the root cause, getting the testing. Without the [crosstalk] testing, you’re guessing.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it. [crosstalk] Love it. Excellent. Alright. Evan, I’m gonna go hang up here on YouTube. I’ll go say goodbye on my Facebook peeps, and we’ll talk real soon, my man.

Evan Brand: Take care.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Take care.

Evan Brand: Bye.

Evan Brand: Bye.



“Hashimoto’s Protocol” by Izabella Wentz



10 Essential Nutrients To Heal Your Thyroid

10 Essential Nutrients To Heal Your Thyroid

By Dr. Justin Marchegiani


The thyroid is a bowtie type of gland that sits just below the Adam’s apple. It regulates your metabolism and weight, and thyroid hormones are required for almost every physiological process in your body.

The thyroid secretes a hormone called T4 that gets converted into an active thyroid hormone called T3 which is needed for all cells of the body to be metabolically active.

T4 is inactive, while T3 is active. 20% of this important conversion happens at the thyroid gland. The other 80% happens peripherally. Out of the 80% that happens peripherally, 60% is converted in the liver, 20% is in the healthy gut bacteria, and the other 20% is via healthy adrenal function and stress regulation


Signs and symptoms of a potential thyroid issue include:

Unexplained weight gain

Fatigue and tiredness/energy issues

Numb or tingling fingers/toes

Muscle soreness

Menstrual and fertility problems, PMS,

Thinning of outer third of eyebrows


Dry, flakey skin

Poor concentration and memory

Temperature intolerance


*Thyroid vs. Adrenals*

It’s important to note that adrenal fatigue is often found alongside thyroid disease, and many of the symptoms of the two overlap, so it is important to look at the thyroid and the adrenals side-by-side. Remember, 20% of the T3 conversion process relies on healthy adrenal function and stress response. One huge step you can take to support both the adrenals and the thyroid is by paying attention to your iron levels. Low iron is linked to low cortisol, a hormone produced by the adrenals which is necessary for proper thyroid function.





We want to look at the body as a whole in dealing with thyroid issues: hormones, diet, lifestyle and nutrition. To avoid supplement overload, the first thing we want to do is to clear out all the dietary and lifestyle sources of stress on the liver. This means cutting out aspartame, junk food loaded with additives, gluten, and anything else the liver has to work extra hard to detox. As we learned earlier, 60% of T4→T3 conversion happens in the liver. Because our liver is always giving detoxification support, we want to take off excess stress (and stop giving our liver stress to detox in the first place), then use supplements such as Liver Supreme.


Selenium: The thyroid is our organ with the highest selenium content and is necessary for production of T3. It can reduce autoimmune issues, as well as decreasing anti-thyroid antibody levels. Besides supplementation, whole foods sources of selenium include grass-fed beef, beef liver, eggs, chicken, spinach, brazil nuts, and yellowfin tuna.

B Vitamins: Thiamine and vitamin B12 help balance hormones, and aid in combatting chronic fatigue. Vegans and vegetarians need to pay special attention as they are much more likely to be deficient in these essential nutrients. Beef liver, sardines, grass-fed beef, eggs, lamb, raw milk and cheese, and salmon are great sources of these vitamins.

Probiotics: Healthy gut bacteria balance is vital for a healthy self. Thyroid conditions have been linked to leaky gut (when proteins such as gluten can leak through the gut and get into the bloodstream, which causes inflammation throughout the body, including the thyroid). 20% of T4→T3 conversion happens in the gut. Probiotic-rich foods include sauerkraut, kombucha, kvass, kefir, and natto.

Iodine: Iodine deficiency is often linked to hypothyroidism. Iodine can be found in whole foods such as fish, sea vegetables, eggs, raw dairy, and seaweed. For 10% of people, iodine can resolve thyroid disfunction, though those with Hashimoto’s should avoid higher dose iodine supplementation, as it can potentially aggravate the autoimmune condition especially in the environment of low iodine.


Tyrosine: In a process called iodination, iodine, tyrosine and thyroglobulin bind together in making your T4 molecule. Tyrosine is found in protein-rich foods such as chicken, turkey, almonds, avocados, beef, and eggs.

Zinc: Zinc is required for T4 to convert to T3, and is also required for T3 to function properly. Zinc impacts many areas of your health, including digestion, skin and eyes, the immune system, omega-3 fatty acid metabolism, and thyroid function. Zinc is found in red meat, pork, oysters, and chicken.

Fat-soluble vitamins: Many essential vitamins and nutrients required fat to be properly absorbed and used by the body. For example, high cortisol levels are associated with low vitamin D levels. But if you are on a low fat diet, you are not going to be absorbing as much vitamin D as you might expect. It is important to have quality sources of fat, such as grass-fed butter, in order to get the full benefits of your supplements.

Vitamin C: The adrenal gland contains the highest concentration of vitamin C in the body, and as we know, there is correlation between adrenal function and thyroid function.

Omega-3 Fatty Acids: Can help “decrease inflammation and help with immunity” for thyroid support. Research shows that omega-3 fatty acids can increase thyroid hormone uptake.

Iron: Research shows correlation between low iron and low cortisol, and cortisol is necessary to convert and activate T4 to T3.

Glandular supplements like Thyro Balance can be beneficial for individuals not getting adequate daily nutrients, particularly those that support the adrenal and thyroid glands. Another supplement that helps provide extra nutrients for thyroid hormones synthesis and T4 to T3 conversion is Thyro Replete.


Conventional medicine generally takes one of three routes in dealing with thyroid issues.

If a patient is labeled as having Hashimoto’s or hypothyroidism, they are prescribed Synthroid.  Most people that are given Synthroid, synthetic T4, don’t convert it to T3, leaving them with tons of thyroid symptoms.

If they’re diagnosed with Graves’, doctors typically just want to perform a thyroidectomy- meaning they pull the thyroid out!

Thirdly, they might want to use radioactive iodine, and shut the thyroid gland down.

The majority of people have hypothyroidism/Hashimoto’s, meaning there are underlying issues affecting thyroid T4-T3 conversion outside of their control, and the mainstream medicine routes aren’t going to tackle the real root of the problem.


While supplementation is valuable and always available for extra support, a balanced life and a healthy diet are the necessary foundation pieces for proper thyroid function.

If you are looking for supplementation to help your thyroid, we offer thyroid support in our store.

To listen to Dr. Justin’s podcast with Evan Brand on the thyroid, check out podcast #54.


Jimmy Moore – The Complete Guide to Fasting – Podcast #132

Dr. Justin Marchegiani welcomes his special guest, Jimmy Moore, in today’s podcast about fasting and nutrition. Listen to them as they engage in a very energizing and interesting discussion on how to do intermittent fasting for a therapeutic reason.

Learn about how fasting benefits and affects our bodies in many ways and be able to apply the guidelines involved in a successful fast. Get valuable information on supplements supporting the Ketogenic diet and know more about cholesterol issues, including the testing involved and its possible root cause.

In this episode, we cover:

07:21   Fasting

11:40   Thyroid Function during fasting

18:43   MCT oil, Ketones, and other supplements

27:27   Ketones and Neurological Conditions

34:50   Lipid Panel: Cholesterol








Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey there! It’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani. We have my good friend, Jimmy  Moore. And one of the biggest podcasts on the Internet here. He is a—he’s one of the guys that I look to for inspiration, kinda how I MC kinda my podcast coz Jimmy is— does it so right. Jimmy, how you doing today?

Jimmy Moore: Hey! What’s up, Justin? I love how enthusiastic you get. We all have our radio boys when we come on.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Jimmy Moore: We’re just talking to each other then, “Hey, hey, guys we’re back here on the Justin Marchegiani show.”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hahaha. Well I always love how you exit your podcast. You say the person’s name, you’d say, “His name is Jimmy Moore” And I love that exit. It was just so great.

Jimmy Moore: I still do that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I love it. I love it. It’s so great. I’m gonna do it today, too, as a little tribute for you.

Jimmy Moore: That’s cool.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: But Jimmy, how have you been?

Jimmy Moore: I’ve been good, man. Just like us Tony before we came on the air. It’s just busy busy all the time and it’s the way I like it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent. I know you had a book that just came out recently on fasting. Let’s dig in. How’s that going? I know you did that book with Dr. Jason Fung.

Jimmy Moore: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Talking about fasting and how to do it therapeutically. Just kind of any listener that’s trying to get some more information on fasting, why should they get that book?

Jimmy Moore: Well, we wrote the complete guide to fasting, Dr. Fung and I, uhm— because when I was looking for a resource on doing some longer facet done some intermittent fast pretty naturally, when you’re ketogenic, you know it’s extraordinarily easy to intermittent fast. I mean, if you go longer than or—or shorter than eight hours without eating between meals, you’re not doing it right. So intermittent fasting was very easy for me and I was even finding that pushing it to say 36-ish hours which is basically an alternate day fast also was pretty easy. So I want to try to push the envelope a little bit and do these longer fast. Well I met Dr. Fung of all places in Cape Town, South Africa he and I shared

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow.

Jimmy Moore: — the stage together at a big low-carb conference that happen there a few years ago. And I went up to him after hearing his talk. I’d never heard of him before and he was talking about fasting as, “Oh, here’s somebody that does something about fasting.” And so, I said, “You know I’m looking for a good resource on doing some longer fast. What is out there?” And he said, “Nothing.”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Alright. So we’re back. So the last question we were talking about the fasting book and you mention you did it with Dr. Jason Fung, so tell me about kind of how that started?

Jimmy Moore: Yes. So he when he and I decided we wanted to collaborate on a book, I decided to start fasting myself. Again, I’ve been doing some— some intermittent fast but I wanted to push the envelope and see, “Okay, let’s see how I do with a little bit longer fast— no, context here.” I used to think fasting was the stupidest thing in the world. Why would you purposely starve yourself? It just made no sense to me. But that was under the thinking that I was starving myself. Once I realized it’s not really starving yourself. You’re doing this for therapeutic reason. That’s when fasting started to make a little more sense, especially when it was spontaneously happening on an intermittent level. Really, all you’re doing is just extending it a little further than that to give your body the benefits that you’re looking for. So I did a—a goal in September 2015, to go 21 days in a row of fasting. Now the longest I’ve ever made, it was like 6 1/2 days. And that one, I told this uh—story in the book, The Complete Guide to Fasting, that I— I took communion on the seventh day of a fast. And I was planning on going seven days on that one and to communion that day at church, got home from church and you know what happened, Justin. I crashed so hard.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So hard.

Jimmy Moore: And so my blood sugar got down to low 50s which in and of itself isn’t a horrible thing when you have higher ketone levels.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Jimmy Moore: But I wasn’t testing blood ketones at that time. And I was definitely in hypoglycemia because I was so hungry, and I was just curled up in the fetal position. And my wife’s like, “Please eat something.” And I was like, “I’m four hours away.”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh my gosh.

Jimmy Moore: I did in the beating uh—and—and breaking that fast, but that was kind of my horror story of fasting. So when I came to this one, I said, “Jason, will you kinda pay attention to me. I will not take communion this time. God will forgive me. Uh—and – and –

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So you’re thinking with the communion, it created like a reactive hypoglycemic spike? Is that what you’re thinking?

Jimmy Moore: It really did.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Jimmy Moore: Because I had gone, like I said, over six days without eating.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow.

Jimmy Moore: Suddenly I introduce this in—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Even a tiny bit. Anybody that has ever had communion, its’ just a tiny little wafer and a tiny little cup of juice. Uh—I mean very tiny and just that little bit, Justin push me over the edge in a hypoglycemia. Now that wouldn’t happen under normal hospices uh— if I just taken that in—in a fed state.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly.

Jimmy Moore: But in a fully fasted state, uh— and my body just wasn’t ready for even that little bit of carbohydrate. So anyway, 21 days—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Jimmy Moore: I attempted and September 2015, I made it 17 1/2 days in a row which was almost triple what I had done my longest before. So I was pretty happy about that. The only reason it ended was Christine and I were actually on vacation and I was having a good time. And that was stress and I found that stress for me as a very insulin resistant man, hits me harder probably the most people. And so, I couldn’t continue with the fast. Now some people said, “Well fasting itself is a stress and it can be early. But I think the longer you do it, the longer you stay on it, you actually find that it’s very sustainable beyond the first three days. The first three days can be pretty tough and we talk very openly about that. I definitely tell people day two is gonna really suck, worse than anything. But if you get through day two, it’s nirvana after that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Awesome. Can you step uh—half a step to your right. Perfect. Now I got your whole beautiful face in there. Awesome. Love it.
Jimmy Moore: I’m trying to balance where I’m in. I ‘m in my bedroom so it’s like I –I’m like we’re doing st—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You look perfect right there.

Jimmy Moore: So the question I have for you is, what was the big difference between being able to go 30 days versus 7? I know the reactive hypoglycemia thing but it sounds like you’re at 7. Seven so, long way from 30. What was the different things that Dr. Fung was uh—coaching you on that was helping?

Jimmy Moore: I never actually made it 30 days. Uh—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay.

Jimmy Moore: The longest I’ve done is 28 days in January last year.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani Wow.

Jimmy Moore: 28 out of the 31 days uh—so wasn’t 28 in a row, but it was 28 of the 31. Again, travel rears it— reared it its ugly head and uh—kick me in the tail. Christine had to make uh— emergency trip to go see her family in Virginia. So I hop in the car and what does the stomach start doing? (growl sound) Great.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, man.

Jimmy Moore: So I end the fast. But that—that—But that’s self-awareness.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Jimmy Moore: You gotta know. You got fit fasting within your life. And so if life happens, and life happen that day, and of course we had to drive home from that. When life happens, you just have to deal with it and not fight back. Uh— listen to your body and I’m sure you preach this pretty often to your listeners, listen to your body and pay attention and respond accordingly. Don’t fight those signals that tell you something’s wrong.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I totally agree. Now when you mentioned not fat—not eating for 28 days, so what does that look like? Is it just simple as you’re just not eating? Or are there certain things that you’re doing with hydration or minerals?

Jimmy Moore: Great question.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: What else is there?

Jimmy Moore: Yes. So when I first started doing these longer fast, Justin, I thought, “Okay, I’m going to need something.” Because anybody that knows my history, you know, really eating literally all the time. Uh— it’s kind of funny to think, “Oh, not eating at all? What—what?” So, I decided I’m going to do it with bone broth, with some sea salt so that gives you a little bit of uh—nutrition there—minimal.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Jimmy Moore: Coz I’m only having a cup or two a day and this may be like 80 calories for 2 cups of bone broth and really minimal nutrition. I also did a little bit of Kombucha but I’ve since cut that out. I found it was actually tearing my gut up pretty bad. Because I thought that I would need it to preserve gut health during the fast. What I’ve found is my gut health has actually done extraordinarily well without the Kombucha because of the fasting. And so we definitely into that coz I know that’s kinda your heart and soul, too.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Jimmy Moore: You talk on gut health. So uhm— so I did that and of course, as you mentioned, hydration, hydration, hydration. I didn’t really count how much water I was drinking but I was drinking quite a bit of water. And— and the interesting thing is people sometimes they will just do water only. I would say do salt water in there as well.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Jimmy Moore: Because that helps to balance out the electrolytes and if you’re using something like pink Himalayan sea salt, you’re getting those trace minerals of the potassium and—and the other things that are gonna keep your electrolytes in balance. That’s a concern a lot of medical professionals have about these longer fast, is where do you get your electrolytes? That’s how you can balance that out. And I’m a big fan, so was Dr. Fung of, kinda adding in that salt from time to time as well.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I think when you’re under stress and you’re in a stress response, one of the big things that happens is that hormone aldosterone can go loaded and that cause you to pee out a lot your minerals.

Jimmy Moore: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So it that sounds like adding in the extra minerals, electrolytes, and also some—some little bit of amino acids in there, really made a difference for you.

Jimmy Moore: And speaking of elimination—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Jimmy Moore: You wanna get down and dirty.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh yeah, let’s hear it.

Jimmy Moore: So you actually do pee quite a bit, and—and that’s natural especially if you’re coming from a non-ketogenic state. You’re suddenly flooding your body with ketones by not eating anything. And so, when that happens, all the glycogen? Pheww— right outta you. And so what happens? You pee your brains out. And even if you’ve been ketogenic, you’re gonna have that as well. And those are kinda gross, but it’s real life, people. So here we go—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s cool. Keeping it real.

Jimmy Moore: But then the thing that come—comes out the other end, though, that’s the most interesting thing to me. Coz you think, okay, after a few days you’ve not eaten, all that’s gone. Uh-uh— I’ve gone really long times without eating and by day 12, day 15, you’re still seeing stuff come out the back side. And it—it freaked me out coz I’m going, “What else is in there?” It—it just it’s amazing we don’t realize just how much gunk is still in there. And you can definitely explain maybe why that stuff’s still in there that deep into a fast when you’re drinking plenty of water every day, you’re getting adequate salt which would ostensibly make things move along pretty—pretty good as well. Why would there be stuff still in there, 12, 15 days later?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, I think some of that, too, is if you look at the composition of your stool, half of it is gonna be bacteria-based. So It just could be bacteria that’s replicating in the gut just kinda having this kind of passing its lifecycle. That could be one aspect.

Jimmy Moore: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s definitely not the fibers in the food aspect.

Jimmy Moore: No.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That part is not there. But the other half of your stool is gonna be the bacteria so that make sense. So that’s good that you are having regularity there.

Jimmy Moore: Oh, yeah. Definitely regularity. I would say the the—the uhm—the normality of the stool was gone by day 5. In other words, it was all kinda soupy.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Jimmy Moore: After day five. And–and from what you just said that make sense.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Totally. Now the big concern that I have with patients—coz I have a lot of patient with blood sugar issues and adrenal issues—is that when you–you cut calories, you know, one of the big things you’ll see in the research is— just type in, “hypocaloric diet” and “low thyroid” or “low T3”

Jimmy Moore: Yes.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:– or “triiodothyronine” is we see the thyroid kinda down regulate. We see the body temp go down. We see the reverse T3 go up. We see the free and total T3 go down. What did you evaluate your thyroid function during the fast and all?

Jimmy Moore: Here’s the most exciting part I think about fasting. When you’re doing it deliberately as a therapeutic uh—resource, and let me give the caveat, I don’t think everybody needs to do really long fast.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Jimmy Moore: I think most people probably could get most of the benefits of fasting just from doing uh— like a 16-8 or 18-6 type of—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Jimmy Moore: —fast. If you did that, I think probably most of the population would do well. This is for those people that are the type II diabetic that are the very insulin resistant that do have a lot of obesity that they want to try to deal with. Uhm—this is uh— who it’s for. Now you mention hypocaloric diets. Here is the thing. Hypo caloric diets can be very detrimental to you. So let’s say, 5,6,700 calorie a day type of diets. That will actually slow your metabolism down. People worry about, “Oh, I’m gonna ruin my metabolism. It’s gonna slow —

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Jimmy Moore: —my basal metabolic rate.” And all this, yada, yada, yada that you hear. And the research definitely bears it out. We’ve seen it with the biggest loser contestants.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.

Jimmy Moore: Here’s the thing. When you eat no calories at all, which I’m defining as that bone broth and the Kombucha, anything like less than maybe a couple hundred calories, that actually is a far different creature than a hypocaloric state of 5,6,700 calories. Fasting actually revs up your metabolism and gives you a lot of health benefits and impacts those hormones in a different way than even eating just a little bit which blows people’s minds. So thinking, “If I just eat a little bit, then that’s better than not eating at all.” No. Actually it’s a lot better to not eat anything at all again defined as 200 calories—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting. Yeah.

Jimmy Moore: — than to have even a little bit calories. And your body thinks it starving and it’s gonna hold on to everything, whereas fasting releases it all and lets this cascade of really cool hormonal effects are to happen.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting. Now what about people that have blood sugar issue, would they tend to go hypoglycemic? How do you address that on —when you’re going to do a fast?

Jimmy Moore: So if there’s concerns about that, obviously keep a very close eye on that and obviously this should go without saying, let uhm— medical professional follow you.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Jimmy Moore: —while you’re going through this. Uhm— so don’t willy-nilly do a fast on your own especially if you have known issues like hypoglycemia. But what we’ve seen and what Dr. Fung has seen— he seen well over 1000 patients in his intensive dietary management plan uh— in Toronto, Ontario Canada and he actually has had some hypoglycemic patients come on and it actually regulates their hypoglycemia. So it doesn’t mean that their blood sugar doesn’t go down —it does. When you fast, it goes down. But the cool thing is, you have a corresponding rise in the blood ketones.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Ketones.

Jimmy Moore: — which then steps in the place of that. So that yes, you have lower levels of blood sugar, but it— but you’re completely asymptomatic of hypoglycemia.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Now what do you think about adding in synthetic ketones while doing the fast. Like the betahydroxy butyrate calcium salts. Are you concerned that if you do that while you fast, you may go up into that ketoacidosis rate? What’s your experience there?

Jimmy Moore: So I have used it uh— in the early days and I would say, use it for the first maybe two, maybe three days, but Justin, by the time you get today 3-4, you’re seeing betahydroxy butyrate levels of 4,5,6 very easily without exogenous ketones. So I would say, it’s probably a good idea in those first couple days especially day 2 where it’s hell—haha—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Tough to cravings.

Jimmy Moore: —to take it then for that purpose to kinda get through that period coz you’ll feel the effects that you’re in the fully fasted state because of the extra ketones. But then once your ketones naturally go up on their own, you can back off and completely eliminate those exogenous ketones. So I think as a beginning uh —part of the fast, absolutely. As you go higher, know and—I— I don’t think ketoacidosis would be a concern because you have to get extraordinarily high level—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 25, right? 20’ish—

Jimmy Moore: of blood ketones. Yeah. 20+ milli molar and I think the highest I’ve ever seen, and this was without exogenous ketones, was 7.6 Very naturally, again, it was early on when I started keto and I started kinda really doing this. Your body levels out over time, but blood sugar at the same time as 7.6 was like in the 50’s and so I wasn’t worried about it in the context of a lower blood glucose level. And if you’re fasting, your blood glucose level is gone drop like a rock.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it. Okay. And I’ve seen a lot of people do the therapeutic fasting with severe insulin resistance. It can be a game changer of turning that insulin resistance around right away.

Jimmy Moore: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And get them back on, you know, the right type of guy whether it’s a paleo, low-carbish, you know—

Jimmy Moore: Sure.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 60 carb, 20 protein, 10—10—or 20 protein uh—10 carb. Whatever that macro rain—

Jimmy Moore: Right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You figure it out with your clinician and work on that. I think it’s a great starting point. My issue is with the low-calorie. I always see a lot of patients just automatically they tend to go lower calorie to begin with. And it’s hard to see if their fatigue is from a low-calorie issue.

Jimmy Moore: Yes.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: —or adrenal, thyroid issue. And the calories you can be driving all of the above.

Jimmy Moore: It could be both exactly where the one is feeding it to the other. And— and I do a Thursday podcast called, “Keto Talk” and my cohost on that one is a practitioner out of Arizona, Dr. Adam Nally and he sees 10, 15,000 patients a year. And so he’s seen literally everything come through the office and he says, “The biggest issue that he sees time and time and time again especially among women is they’re not eating enough calories when they go keto.” And so you gotta have adequate calories or it’s just a moot point.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Definitely the fasting is therapeutic coz we— we need nutrition to run our body and we won’t be getting those nutrients in a fasting state. But when will be doing some severe uh —U-turns with our physiology when it comes to insulin resistance for sure.

Jimmy Moore: Absolutely. That’s why you do it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Also, I had a little flashback when you’re talking about the constipation thing.

Jimmy Moore: Uh-oh.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I flashback to one of your podcast a few years back when I— you are interviewing— not Ornish, when uh — Mc Dougall.

Jimmy Moore: Yes.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And he kept on referring you to Mr. Moore—

Jimmy Moore: Ho-ho—how’s your constipation, he told me.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. He kept on saying, “How’s your constipation, Mr. Moore?” “How is it?” So I kept on having those flashbacks there. That was an excellent interview that I think uh —everyone should partake in. It was just a uhm—amazing.

Jimmy Moore: It was fun. Hahaha—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: —just you showing your patience on being able to stay calm. That was unbelievable. You’re a saint.

Jimmy Moore: What’s funny is behind the scenes, my wife could hear what was going on.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Jimmy Moore: She heard it very quickly took a turn for the worse. And she— I mean I had on mute and she was like, “Don’t let him run over you.” I’m like, “I got this—I got this.” Hahaha—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That was probably one of the podcast— one of the best podcast that I’ve ever seen. It was great. Love it.

Jimmy Moore: You gotta have fun in podcasting and sometimes talk to people that you don’t agree with and they can hang themselves.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. Well, we’ll put that topic behind us. Uhm— literally and figuratively.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So you—

Jimmy Moore: See ya.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I know. Next— what’s your experience using MCT oil or other types of ketone precursors to help to kinda push yourself into a higher level of ketosis?

Jimmy Moore: Yeah. I think they’re great adjuncts. Like we said a moment ago—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Jimmy Moore: —with the exogenous ketones in the beginning of a fast, I think anything that’s gonna give you even a psychological boost, I know that physiologically you should be getting a boost in your ketones because MCT is a precursor to that. But I think anything that’s gonna make you feel better about what you’re doing and how you’re fueling your body and—and the end goal of—of feeling better and getting healthier, is a good thing. So just be careful if you do add any of these products like MCT oil, specifically. I remember first time I was gonna—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Loose stools.

Jimmy Moore: —two big tablespoons full of this stuff—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, yeah.

Jimmy Moore: And two hours later, I can’t get off the pot. So—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hahaha—

Jimmy Moore: Hahaha—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it.

Jimmy Moore: So you gotta—It’s beware at that point and—and be prudent about it. Obviously, listen to podcasts like these. Uh— it’s gonna help you, you uhm—you know, and read up before you kinda jump full-fledged. I think sometimes a little bit of knowledge is dangerous, Justin. Because people think, “Oh well, I can do this on my own.” And you probably should not do it on your own.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I hundred percent agree. Now you mentioned that certain people the fasting may not be the best thing for, especially when there’s a lot of active stress.

Jimmy Moore: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And is that because of the stress hormones affecting blood sugar and insulin levels?

Jimmy Moore: Blood sugar and just how you feel in general. I— I think all of those things uhm— it’s just not a good idea. I mean obviously, if you’re malnourished and underweight, you shouldn’t be fasting either coz you’re gonna lose weight. Uhm— if you’re pregnant, obviously you should not be uh— fasting because you’re basically trying to build a little one inside you.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.

Jimmy Moore: You’re going to needing to, you know, feed you and that baby. Uhm —I think if someone comes from an eating disorder, like uh—anorexia or bulimia, get that under control first. Uhm— and just— and children. If you’re under age, and you’re still developing and growing, probably not a good idea to fast unless the only caveat I’d give to the children is unless they’re very severely—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Jimmy Moore: — obese and diabetic and this is something that could be therapeutic for them. But again, in general, children probably should not be fasting.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it. Would you say if you also have like an active thyroid or adrenal issue, would you say get that under control before trying that?

Jimmy Moore: Yeah. You definitely want to get those things under control. Uh— it might help those things, it might— but I think getting those under control through nutrition first, and then as an adjunct in the process of your healing, adding in a few times a fasting just to see how you do, is definitely there is no downside to trying it uh —a time or two, just to see how it impacts you. And— and that’s the theme song, we say again and again with what I like to refer to as the other “F word”.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Nice.

Jimmy Moore: With fasting is you just gotta try it. And if it works for you, great; If doesn’t work for you, great. Move on back to your Paleo diet, your ketogenic diet and be happy with where you are.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it. And I spoke at 2015 low-carb cruise, and one of the things I talked about was thyroid function and insulin resistance. So, if you are insulin resistant, that can definitely affect thyroid function. And fasting may be a good short-term modality to help get that insulin resistance which would thus, help with thyroid T4 to T3 conversion, too.

Jimmy Moore: And see, it’s all related.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Jimmy Moore: People like to say, “Well, I have uh— heart disease, I have diabetes, I have cancer.” Guess what guys, they’re all metabolic diseases, they’re all cut from the same cloth. Uh— thyroid disease, the same thing. They are all cut from the exact same cloth and—and knowing that, keeps you so much more knowledge and power than probably most medical professionals.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally, 100% agree with that. So looking at some of the supplements that you’re using, I know you’ve up with your own line with Dr. Adam Nally there on your Keto podcast.

Jimmy Moore: Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Let’s talk about some of the—the core or the big three so to speak. Uhm—what are those and then where do you—where do you stand on synthetic ketones, too?

Jimmy Moore: So uh— big three in terms of what the big uhm— supplements are?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Exactly. What are those big three supplements that you’re doing?

Jimmy Moore: The big three—like—haha

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Haha—

Jimmy Moore: We have two uh—two products in the line. Currently, one is multivitamin that’s very specifically uh —targeted to people on a ketogenic diet. We call it Keto Essentials. And we literally load that bad boy up with all kind of stuff uhm —and so in six pills, you get like all the vitamin D that most people would need. I believe we have 2000 IU of the vitamin D in there. We have biotin. We have uh—just a lot of things, K2, that you don’t usually see in a lot of multivitamins. You definitely can’t find this formulation in like uh— vitamin shop or anything like that. So uh— we worked hard and this is one that Dr. Nally actually uses specifically with his patients that he puts on a which is like 99% of the people that come through his door, he puts on a ketogenic diet. And then uh— uh—the other one is blood sugar tends to be an issue a lot of people deal with. And so Berberine Plus is the name of the product that we came out with there and it’s for Berberine, Banaba leaf and chromium all known to help lower and modulate your blood sugar levels. And the cool thing about that one is when you lower blood sugar, guess what also happens, you raise in the context of a low-carb, high-fat diet, you raise ketone levels. And so it helps you get into ketosis. Uhm— I would think that fish oil probably is a third one that’s really essential work we’re—we’re kinda looking into what we can do from an omega-3 standpoint. But I think getting that right balance of Omega 3’s is so essential. I personally just love cod liver oil.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it.

Jimmy Moore: And use it pretty often and definitely high quality pharmaceutical grade. Don’t buy the ones that are, you know, Walgreens or whatever.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely.

Jimmy Moore: No offense but just they’re just—they’re rancid, they’re nasty.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Jimmy Moore: And—and when you fishy burp, that’s a really bad sign—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Jimmy Moore: that you got a bad one.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.

Jimmy Moore: So— and then you asked about exogenous ketones, I’m still kind of— I’m still kind of filling that out because there’s a lot of companies out there really trying to get on this bandwagon with exogenous ketones. Uh— I think I was telling you before I came in the air, I don’t like to way some of them are being marketed.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Jimmy Moore: Into ketosis within 45 minutes or less—No, you don’t.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Jimmy Moore: You get ketones in your blood system.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.

Jimmy Moore: But you’re not in ketosis. You’re not keto adapted and then some of the other marketing is like, “Well, eat all the carbs you want, just take exogenous ketones and you’re in ketosis.” I’m like “No. No. There’s some dangerous implications there where you’re raising your blood sugar with these carbs you’re eating and then suddenly you’re raising blood keto levels. That would be a concern for ketoacidosis at some point if you go overboard.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Big time.

Jimmy Moore: So I’m very leery about this, Justin. And very open about it I do think exogenous ketones have a role in the Keto community where people that are struggling may be just starting off and they want to kinda feel some of the effects of having ketones in their blood system. This will do that for them and again, a psychological effect of, “Oh, well I already have ketones in my system, now it motivates me to go do it endogenously while I’m doing it exogenously. I think that can be—that can be a good use for them. But just these people that are pushing it and eat your carbs and have ketones at the same time, no— don’t do this. Don’t do that anymore.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I totally agree. I see a lot of these companies. They do that and they don’t really emphasize the dietary aspect of pus your physiology into nutritional ketosis by making the right diet and lifestyle changes. They’re just like “Hey, let’s forget that let’s just take this magic pill and get in the ketosis.” But we’re saying maybe do both. If you do some of that and then you make the diet changes than you can have a really beneficial effect.

Jimmy Moore: Yeah and unfortunately, I think a lot of these companies are just in it for the book.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Jimmy Moore: For the trend and, you know, Keto is very, very hot right now. I wrote Keto Clarity three years ago, and it’s still under a 1000 on Amazon. It just blows my mind how help long that book is just lasted. But it’s because so many people are truly interested and I’d— I don’t want anybody to get confused that Keto— exogenous ketones is anything close to being exactly the same as endogenous doing it through a low-carb, moderate protein, high-fat diet.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it. And what’s your take using endogenous ketones for like neurological disorders? Whether it’s epilepsy or whether it’s Parkinson’s or neurological conditions. What’s your experience with that did?

Jimmy Moore: Did you say endogenous or exogenous?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhm— I’m sorry I would be talking about exogenous.

Jimmy Moore: Okay.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So extra ketones. So let’s assume—

Jimmy Moore: Coz I heard you say endogenous—Wait a minute, uh—eat low carb and then—haha—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So endogenous is what’s happening inside. That’s the low-carb—

Jimmy Moore: Yes.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: —that moderate protein diet—

Jimmy Moore: Right. Right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And then exogenous what we’re putting into our bodies. So what’s your take with that with some of those neurological conditions?

Jimmy Moore: Oh my goodness. I think these are the people that that was made for that. O-o—other than like the Navy Seals which I know Dominique D’ Agostino’s been kind of leading the way of creating these things for the Navy Seals to kind of help, you know, enhance their mental performance.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Jimmy Moore: While they’re out there. And plus they do a lot of fasting as well.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Jimmy Moore: So they do a lot of the endogenous ketones that way. So, yeah. Absolutely. These are the very people that I think they’re trying to reach this really cool ratio of glucose to— to ketone and if they’re doing it endogenously and—and working voraciously even more so than just someone just trying to heal insulin resistance, they’re going upwards 85-90% fat and then the rest is protein, carb. They’re doing really hardcore trying to get those ketone levels up for a therapeutic purpose. So don’t misunderstand me as, “Oh, I’m gonna go eat 90% fat. Jimmy Moore said it was okay.” No, I didn’t. For the purposes of Parkinson’s and—and some of the things that you mention, I think it, along with exogenous ketones, can be very uh —very therapeutic for those people because quite frankly, the brain— your fat head, by the way, Justin—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Jimmy Moore: And so am I. We all are. We’re all like we have— was at 70% fat—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Jimmy Moore: —in our brains. And there are some glucose uh— functions in the brain but your body makes all the glucose you need endogenously. So you don’t have to eat, you know, uh— extra glucose in order to get it into the brain. So the brain’s gonna be fine. The brain’s actually going to be more than fine. It’s gonna be optimal when you start eating low-carb, moderate protein, high-fat. And then adding in these exogenous ketones, the brain just goes wild when you’re in a ketogenic state.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. And you talked about brain here just one second ago. Now we are— we are 70% you know, fat in the brain. Uh— Tom —Tom Naughton uh— his video, “Fat Head” a few years back.

Jimmy Moore: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It was just absolutely great. It was really emphasizing that. But in our brain, right? We look at some of the enzymes that are active in our brain. There’s one enzyme called insulin degrading enzyme. And that enzyme’s really unique because that enzyme’s also the enzyme that mops up insulin and also mops up plaque. So imagine someone spilled a whole bunch of insulin on your floor, right? And yet Mop comes in, and mops up that insulin but there’s some plaque on the other side of the floor because the mop’s so saturated it can’t mop up the plaques. In other words, that mop can only mop up so much gunk in the brain. The more insulin that’s there from the excess sugar and carbs, you have less of that mop’s utilization for the plaque. And that’s part of the mechanism of Alzheimer’s and some of these Dementia brain conditions.

Jimmy Moore: Alright. I wanna see an illustration of that on your website now. So—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Haha—

Jimmy Moore: The mop that’s dripping with insulin can’t get the plaque—Haha—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’m gonna do it. I’m gonna do it. I’m gonna do a chalk talk later this week. You got it.

Jimmy Moore: Cool.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It will be uh —dedicated to you, Jimmy.

Jimmy Moore: Cool. There you go.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So we talked about the insulin piece, that’s important. What’s been your experience with fasting or using very— like you know, 200-500 calorie diets? And I know you said below 200. I had some experience using hCG. Some of the hCG protocols—

Jimmy Moore: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: The Human Chorionic Gonadotropin. And using that to basically tap into your body secure fat sources and kinda having this appestat, you know, the appestacin or the brain kinda re-regulating that. What’s been your experience with that, if you have any?

Jimmy Moore: Can I be honest about hCG?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Jimmy Moore: I’m extraordinarily skeptical uhm— I know it’s helped a lot of people actually uh —know a lot of patients that have gone through that. I have not personally done that. Uhm— and I think the thing that scares me the most about it and maybe you can acquiesce my fear, is the— is the very, very low calorie. I think I find more benefit from being under the 200 than being at 500 with hCG. And it could just be my naïveté and not knowing enough about it, but I’m— I’m just extraordinarily concerned anybody that goes through that. Because once you go through the round of hCG and you go back to eating somewhat normally again, maybe a ketogenic diet, I haven’t really seen anybody continue to sustain the benefits from that. So that would be my only caveat concern about this.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I’ve done it with a couple dozen patients. I’ve done it myself personally. My wife tried it a few times as well. And it has worked profoundly if you do it right.

Jimmy Moore: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Couple of caveats, there’s a lot of homeopathic’s out there— homeopathic drops—

Jimmy Moore: Yes.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Don’t recommend that. If you do an hCG, you should do it the injection—

Jimmy Moore: You do the injection.Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You should do the injection.

Jimmy Moore: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And the easy way to do it as you should know because if you get a pregnancy test, you should test positive. It’s a great way to freak out your husband, by the way. Okay.

Jimmy Moore: Test positive— Will a guy test positive for pregnancy as well?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I —I think they will because that’s still gonna spill out—some of it will spill out in the urine.

Jimmy Moore: I so wanna do that to freak out Christine.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hahaha—

Jimmy Moore: Hahaha—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: But I tried it with a sublingual and I tried it with a homeopathic—

Jimmy Moore: Yes.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You will not get a positive pregnancy test. And again, my wife has tried it, not me. I’ve done the injection but I haven’t tried it yet.

Jimmy Moore: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: But I’ve seen it work phenomenal. It took her about one year to gain the weight back.

Jimmy Moore: Wow.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And she felt great. Going— that— In the first five days was tough, but you are able to keep it off. And again, you know ,the quick—the key is what do you go back to?

Jimmy Moore: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You go back to a really good diet.

Jimmy Moore: That’s right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: She’s kind of a Paleo, low-carb.

Jimmy Moore: Sure.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s where she—she lives. Uhm— but again, the key is don’t go back to a crappy diet. But the science behind that is the hCG is tricking the body. And this makes sense more with the female physiology.

Jimmy Moore: Right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Not so much the male. You’re tricking the body that you are pregnant and your body is tapping into secure fat stores coz it’s trying to pull calories out so the baby can be nourished and fed. So the whole idea is you’re tapping into those secure fat stores. That’s the stores you normally wouldn’t tap into if that hormonal level wasn’t there. And there’s been a study at __was the British endocrinologist—

Jimmy Moore: Right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: —that came up with this in the 60’s.

Jimmy Moore: Right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: There’s a study in the Lancet where you have two group: one without the hCG, low-calorie diet; one with the hCG. And the group with the hCG loss more calories and also kept it off longer as well. So just kinda—that’s from my experience and pretty good.

Jimmy Moore: Yeah. I’ve interviewed a few people about hCG on the “Livin La Vida Low Carb Show” over the years. So I’m curious the 500 calories is key. You’ve gotta keep it down so basically you don’t overfeed your body because you’re tapping into the body fat stores to make up for the rest of calories that you need. Is that the theory?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes and no. I— I’ve modified it over the years where I still boost the calories up a little bit more upto —

Jimmy Moore: You do. Okay.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: — thousand. I played around with that coz you still get—

Jimmy Moore: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: —similar results. And also adding in— they recommend no fats but the only exception is been for me is MCT Oil.

Jimmy Moore: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And I find it boost up the ketones the more helps with the appetite.

Jimmy Moore: I would be willing to try a 1000 calorie one with the hCG injections that— that sounds a little more prudent. I think the 500 was what just freak me out. Every time I saw that it—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’ve had so many good experiences with it with people that already have healthy diets, healthy everything.

Jimmy Moore: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And that’s like my go to with patients that are like at their wits end with their diet. Everything else is right— exercise, lifestyle, supplements, gut. That’s kind of my last go to. So I’d be curious to see your— your take on that.

Jimmy Moore: Yeah maybe will give it a go.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I love it. Very cool. So we talked about the ketone, we talked about some of the supplements which I think are really good. Now we talk about you— you talked about it before in Keto clarity kinda looking at your lipid panel Can we talk more about lipids when you’re— when someone’s reading their lipid panel, is there cut off for you? With your cholesterol so high that they should worry at all? What does that look like for you?

Jimmy Moore: Total cholesterol is that you’re referring to?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Total cholesterol. Correct.

Jimmy Moore: Yes. So I was just talking to this lady that was going in at the mail place I’d take books every day to the mail and this lady was there, and I don’t know how it came out, but her —her total cholesterol she just shared it with me. I guess she knew what I did for a living. And so, you have 620 total cholesterol and I’m like, “Okay, that’s high. I’m not really worried about total cholesterol in general, but that’s really, really high.” And so I said uhm— “So usually when your blood lipids are that high, do you have, you know, something else going on? Do you have like maybe infections in your teeth or something?” She’s like, “Oh, yeah.” and she pulls out the bottom of her teeth.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Ohh— Oh, man.

Jimmy Moore: She had six all pulled out that— that probably had infections in there from root canals that she’s had done. And this was the bad part. This was the part that just broke my heart, Justin. She just spent over $10,000 mercury amalgam galore all in her teeth. And I’m going, “I’m sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but that’s why your blood cholesterol has gone up so extraordinarily high.” So I think in the context of knowing why it’s high, it does matter. Uh—but it’s not the high number, I told her. I said, “You should be very thankful that you have that very high cholesterol because that’s the only thing that’s saving you from dying right now because of the inflammation.” And so it kinda startled her. “I just spend all this money” and like, “I know but total cholesterol can be an interesting marker if it starts to go up because it should clue you when something is going on somewhere in the body and it’s usually an inflammatory response somewhere. And teeth is a big one for a lot of people. I actually have four root canals done when I was in my early 20s, mercury amalgams.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Argh—

Jimmy Moore: And 2013, actually wrote a book, “Cholesterol Clarity” and an in preparation for that book, I thought well, I learned that infections in your teeth can be a big player in your total cholesterol. So I went and got them all cleaned up. I went to a holistic dentist down the road from here, he took all the mercury amalgam— amalgams and put good stuff in there and he cleaned up all of the root canals and the infections that had taken place. I can literally taste the infection that’s how bad it was.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh—

Jimmy Moore: So he cleaned all that up, and Justin, and in one year, my total cholesterol jumped a 100 points just from doing that. No other changes, just from doing that. And so it can be uh—uh —kinda your first telltale sign something serious might be going on. So that’s the only weight that I really give total cholesterol. I think looking at triglyceride – HDL ratio gives you a whole lot better indication.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Jimmy Moore: You know, any, maybe necessarily cardiovascular issues uh—and NHS CRP to kinda see you like the inflammatory response. There’s a lot of inflammatory uh —numbers I know that you run.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Jimmy Moore: Uhm—in—in your office. And so I think cholesterol helps to a degree, but not to the degree that most mainstream medical professionals think it does.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think you’re a hundred percent right. Anytime I see like, you know, over—over mid 300 cholesterol, the first thing I always go to rule out is make sure it’s not a hypercholesterolemia issue with it.

Jimmy Moore: Right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s just a genetic issue with the—

Jimmy Moore: Right. And I had that tested, by the way. I have a 5% chance that I have familiar hypercholesterolemia which is, no, I don’t.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right. Exactly.

Jimmy Moore: And that—And then it lead to—“Hey, maybe there’s something— oh yeah, had all these root canals, I had the mercury and that— that was the thing.” And now my— my blood sugars uh — or blood sugar — blood cholesterol is still pretty high. It’s in the 200’s but that’s not abnormal.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: No, that’s not an issue at all.

Jimmy Moore: And we can talk about the context of uh— of a ketogenic diet, that’s not abnormal.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I don’t worry until they’re into the mid 300’s.

Jimmy Moore: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: But any than that

Jimmy Moore: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: —to—where’s the HDL—where’s the HDL at?

Jimmy Moore: Yes.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Just curious.

Jimmy Moore: Yeah. HDL 75.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s beautiful.

Jimmy Moore: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So your ratio right there still under—It’s still under 4. That’s still beautiful. And at 3 ½, you have the risk factor.

Jimmy Moore: And—and 360, so yeah, exactly.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s less than 1. That’s beautiful.

Jimmy Moore: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I don’t have an issue with that. But uh— you know, but if there is an issue, we’ll run the LDR receptor, the P—PCKS9 test, look at the genetic markers there and if those aren’t there, we’re doing all the things that you mentioned. Also looking at thyroid function.

Jimmy Moore: Yes.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Because low thyroid function cause— can cause—

Jimmy Moore: Will raise cholesterol—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: to creep up.

Jimmy Moore: Yup. Do you run an NMR at all?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhm— Yeah. I do run an NMR. I was using the VAP before.

Jimmy Moore: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: But then after they got shut down.

Jimmy Moore: Yes.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So I’ve been doing more of the NMR to look at the LDL number.

Jimmy Moore: NMR is like the only game in town now. HDL Labs is gone now, and VAP is gone.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: How about—how about the Cardiac IQ, is that still there?

Jimmy Moore: Yeah, it is. But I think NMR has a little more prominence.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Jimmy Moore: It’s got legs coz they’re like only game in the— in the subfraction game, so to speak. That I think more and more doctors are accepting that one. Although I will tell you my own medical doctor just down the road from here in South Carolina, he stopped running them. And I’m going, “Can I please have an NMR run coz I want to keep around small dense LDL particles” “Well, you’re gotta have pay for it out-of-pocket.” So insurance won’t even pay for it anymore.

They don’t have a code for it anymore at my local doctors office. So I run it on my own anyway I can— I can do it NMR for about— about 50 and done and done. And in that way, I know where I am.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. That’s so smart. And again, I’m imagining the main reason why they’re not running it is because there’s no modality that they can do to change it.

Jimmy Moore: Well, they don’t know what to do with it. That—mainstream medicine they even run the standard lipid panel. They don’t know what to do with it. So that— that’s we’re getting deep into an issue with the mainstream medical system. They run so many numbers that they just don’t know what to do with it. “Okay, you’re normal.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Jimmy Moore: And it’s like normal of what?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: What?

Jimmy Moore: Sick people.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Exactly. And also the fact that uhm— also when you’re looking at those test, typically the prescriptions gonna be a statin.

Jimmy Moore: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: The statin won’t touch particle size and won’t touch LDL number per se.

Jimmy Moore: Right. Well kudos to this uh— this postal lady coz she said, “They tried to put me on this medicine. I told them, I ain’t taking that ever.” It’s like, “You go girl.” Uh—so she was—she was really— do have a fasting story regarding uh—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Jimmy Moore: —cholesterol when I did that September 2015 fast, 17 ½ days, I tested all of my blood markers uh —cholesterol before and then did it after. Do you know when that 17 ½ days my total cholesterol dropped a hundred points. And my LDL-P which was on the NMR like profile test, it dropped a thousand points.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Whoa.

Jimmy Moore: And small LDL was pretty low already but it even dropped another hundred or so points. Uhm— triglycerides obviously went down as well. HDL slightly went down which you’re not eating food, that make sense coz—since dietary fat tends to help your HDL go up. I wasn’t eating anything so uh— really interesting markers. And then the uh— really advanced lipid marker lipoprotein little-a actually was in the 400’s. I’ve always had really high lipoprotein little-a, like 423, and it dropped down to like 130 in 17 ½ days.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow.

Jimmy Moore: Nothing moves that. No drug moves your numbers that quickly. So uh— I was pretty impressed by the— just the therapeutic fasting. Just that little bit of fasting how profound it move those cholesterol numbers.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: What If you’re someone that was going to their conventional position. Could just fasting for a day or two make— move the needle in the right direction so you’d be out of that danger zone?

Jimmy Moore: You know I didn’t test after a couple days. That— this will be a fun test to do.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Jimmy Moore: Like uh— I like do daily NMR’s or whatever—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Jimmy Moore: I just see when that— that dramatic shift takes place. I don’t think it would in that very short amount of time.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Jimmy Moore: Uh—I know some people they try to get like good health insurance or life insurance policies based on the cholesterol numbers.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Jimmy Moore: I never get those preferred rates because I can’t get my numbers down that good. Uh— although, uh—you could do it with uh—you know, 10-day fast to try to get those numbers down. Get the good rate and go back to eating, it would go back up again. But, yeah, it’s uh— you know, I haven’t tried that but, that— would—If I could uh—make a little—If I can sell a few more books maybe I’ll do that daily NMR just to kind of keep an eye on what’s exactly happening.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s great work. Kinda doing the circle run here. We hit the fasting book, fasting clarity; hit the Keto clarity; we hit the cholesterol clarity; Are there any other key topics within those three books to give out now, that you wanna hit on? That you just feel is really important to address?

Jimmy Moore: Yeah. I mean, we’ve hit all the—the key points with that. Uhm— I’m obviously still writing books and still continuing to— to try to get information out there. The next book that I’m—I’m working on is kind of a sequel to Keto Clarity uh— coz all these people read that it was meant to be an entry-level book. I get some weird reviews on Amazon top uh— sometimes for Keto Clarity like, “It’s too simple.” Like, “Yeah. That was the point, dude.” Hahaha— I wanted it to be entry-level coz keto can be a little complex. You start talking about gluconeogenesis and ketoacidosis.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Gluconeogenesis. I love it.

Jimmy Moore: Yeah. Exactly. Oh, you remember that. Uh —And so I uh— wanted to go a little bit deeper and so Dr. Nally, uh—my keto talk co-host and I are actually working on a book called, “The Keto Cure” which will take all the major disease states uh—that a ketogenic diet helps with and show you the metabolic pathway of why it works, supplements you can take that would correspond with the ketogenic diet. And as a very last resort, any medications that might be an adjunct for that particular condition. So we’re really excited to get that book out in September uh—like a settl— kind of a long-awaited sequel to Keto Clarity. Uhm— and then another piece that’s not being talked about a lot, Justin, is the whole uh— mindset. The whole uh— getting your brain in the right— uh and loving yourself in the process.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Jimmy Moore: I guess it’s a long time to say a lot of people give you the “Here’s the how to” “Here’s the practical” And some people say, “I just hate how I look.” “I just don’t know” They don’t love themselves. And so I’m teaming up with a registered holistic nutritionist named, Meg Doll. Uh— was Meg on the cruise the year you came?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: She may have been. Sounds familiar.

Jimmy Moore: Yeah. So I— Anyway, she and I are collaborating on a book called, “Keto Freedom” coming out in December. And then I just signed the contract as of the recording of this, like today, uh —for my next book after that called, “Weight Loss White Lies” There are so many shysters in the weight loss industry and I’m so sick and tired of seeing them on television and in print magazines. And people believe the garbage that’s put out there about what they need to do lose weight. And so, “Weight loss White lies” is gonna come in 2018 and I’ve already asked my publisher, “Can I please just rail against everybody?” So they don’t let me do that and uh— really excited to get that out there. Constantly working on new projects trying to uh— help other people, keep doing my podcasts. I do five podcast a week now between the three shows. So stays busy.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s great. You are the major podcast guy over the last 10 years. Now you’re into the whole authorship field. You’re doing great. Any of those book hits uh—hit New York Times best seller?

Jimmy Moore: You know, Keto Clarity came so close.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Aww—

Jimmy Moore: It was 22 the week it would’ve hit. And—and some of the behind-the-scenes games people may not know about. There’s publishers that actually pay their way to get on the list.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s hard.

Jimmy Moore: And so—You know publishers pay their way to get on the list the week I would’ve it. Uhm— and so I missed it by two on that one. The Ketogenic Cookbook hit 21.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Aww— one away.

Jimmy Moore: But “Ketogenic Cookbook” did hit International Bestseller status as did the uh—the book after that one uh— was “The Complete Guide to Fasting” that came out on October uh—we originally called it “Fasting Clarity” but then we got into writing it and, “Oop, we need to change the title.” Coz he didn’t want to necessarily stick with the same form as the clarity books. And so “Complete Guide to Fasting” also it sold out in six hours on Amazon.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow. Unreal.

Jimmy Moore: The day it came out.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Everyone listening, let’s help Jimmy get to number one here on his next book.

Jimmy Moore: Hahaha—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, thank you. And yeah, we’re really excited about “The Keto Cure” and yeah, we’re gonna keep doing our thing, man. Getting the message out to think we’re all passionate. All of us in this community are passionate just about educating people and helping them change their lives.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We’ll put the links below to all the Amazon— all the Amazon links to the books of people can easily access that. Awesome. And if you want to get in touch with Jimmy, livinlavida pod —livinlavidalowcarb podcast, and as well as the Keto talks, right, with Adam McNally?

Jimmy Moore: Adam Nally.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Adam Nally.

Jimmy Moore: Yeah. He’s been called McNally. He’s been called worse, so—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hahaha—

Jimmy Moore: that’s just from Jimmy Moore. Like Keto Talk with Jimmy Moore & the Doc on Thursdays. And then I have a brand new podcast that started with Dr. Fung in January called, “Fasting Talk” so that’s also out there, as well,

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it, man. Excellent. And last question I asked all my guests here. If you’re stuck on a desert island and you can only bring one supplement with you, what would it be, Jimmy?

Jimmy Moore: Well, I wouldn’t need vitamin D if I’m on a dessert island so—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: No. You wouldn’t need that.

Jimmy Moore: One supplement— I— I would bring MCT oil.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I knew you were gonna say that. That would myself ahead of time.

Jimmy Moore: Hahaha—Or coconut oil, either one—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Something to increase uh— ketones naturally. Love it, Jimmy.

Jimmy Moore: Or to be fuelled, you know, coz if you’re—because you’re probably gonna have to fast quite a bit. So if I’m fasting, I want some fat in my body.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally makes sense. And you’d be a pro at that. I mean 28 days, man. Coz me and you in a dessert island, I think you may have me beaten, man.

Jimmy Moore: Well, I’ve got a little more uh—uh— meat on my body as well. I would survive a little longer.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I hear you.

Jimmy Moore: Awesome, Jimmy. Hold on, I’m gonna do it. His name is Jimmy Moore. Thanks Jimmy. I appreciate everything.

Jimmy Moore: His name—is Jimmy Moore.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I love it.

Jimmy Moore: Thanks so much for joining us here today on the Justin Marchegiani Show.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I love it. And again, thank you for being an inspiration on the podcast. I listen to your shows for a lot inspiration and just kinda how do I captivate the crowd and just be a really good host and kinda like prod for those good questions and that good uh—interactive feedback. So I appreciate that, Jimmy. I think the spontaneity helps and—and when you’re good friends with the person you’re interviewing, that also helps a lot. Uhm— and yeah, behind-the-scenes, I try to mentor a lot of podcasters. People don’t realize that I’m talking to a lot of these people that are coming on new and I’m happy to do that. I’ve done this a very long time and I love every minute of it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it, Jimmy. We’ll get you back on as soon as that book comes out.

Jimmy Moore: Thanks, bud.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Thanks so much, Jimmy. Take care.


The Complete Guide to Fasting: Heal Your Body Through Intermittent, Alternate-Day, and Extended Fasting

Cholesterol Clarity: What The HDL Is Wrong With My Numbers? 

The Ketogenic Cookbook: Nutritious Low-Carb, HIgh-Fat Paleo Meals to Heal Your Body

Autoimmune Paleo Cookbook & Action Plan: A Practical Guide to Easing Your Autoimmune Disease Symptoms with Nourishing Food


Immune System, Tapping Technique and GI infections – Podcast Live with Dr. J and Evan | Podcast #131

Dr. Justin Marchegiani and Evan Brand engage in a lively and informative discussion about their recent clinical successes with their patients using the functional medicine approach. Listen to them as they dig into the root cause of their patients’ issues and turn chronic and seemingly complicated problems into success stories.

Know about the tapping technique which involves turning something negative into a better, positive thought. Learn more about GI infections, the bacteria or parasite that may be involved, as well as the tests and treatment options that are proven successful in the functional medicine world. 

 In this episode, we cover:

 03:50   Immune System, bacteria, and infection relationship

 15:50   Tapping Technique

 19:17   Treating Hypochloridia

 24:10   GI infections

 28:34   Enzyme Tests






Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We are live on YouTube here. Podcast live on demand. Also, live here on Facebook. Evan, how are you doing, man?

And again, Facebook people you gotta click on the link here uhm—I’ll put in the comments to see Evan’s pretty face and go back and forth on this. How we doing, man?

Evan Brand: What’s going on? I’m feeling really good today. We’ve got a blue skies, the trees are blooming which they probably—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Awesome.

Evan Brand: a year ago in Austin. So I’m enjoying myself.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very good. So we got podcast on demand. So anyone wants to write in some suggestions as we chit chat here, we’ll figure out what exactly we want to talk about moving forward.

Evan Brand: Yeah. And I might as well post a link over here to my Twitter page and see if uh—people are paying attention over there. That way, if they’ve got questions, they can get them answered here.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it. Totally makes sense. Same thing, anyone on Facebook, too, every  chimes in first we can get this thing moving. But let’s uh—just talk about some clinical successes in the last week with patients. Any updates from you, man?

Evan Brand: Yes. So interesting update is uh—there’s a female client that comes to mind and she had seven, I believe, I have to go back at here stool test and count. But I believe it was seven infections and this is a combination of two parasites which—let me just pull it up, that way, I’m not just shooting into the dark here, but—Uhm— with these infections, we started a gut protocol and symptom improvement was seen. She was having a lot of irritable bowel symptoms uhm— running to the bathroom. So she showed up with H. pylori, Blastocystis Hominis, Entamoeba and Fragilis and Proteas  and Citrobacter. Somehow, cal protectin level was still low  which is intestinal inflammation where—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: –I look at but I was surprised. And so anyhow, we put her on this protocol. And this is like 8 weeks.  And the H. pylori while it’s still positive, instead of two viral factors, now she’s got one viral factor. The level of H.Pylori has dropped. The Citrobacter is completely gone. The Proteus completely gone. The Blasto is completely gone. But we still got Entamoeba. So there’s still the parasite and there is still the H. pylori there. So we’ve got work to do but yet, we’ve seen 3 or 4 things disappearing. So I think what the takeaway message is from me is that the bodies gonna heal in an interesting way. It may not heal everything at the same time. Some things may be easier to kill. Some things may disappear first, but you gotta heal yourself especially your gut, your microbiome. You gotta heal these things in layers. And that’s what we’re seeing here.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. So typically with a lot of patients that have chronic issues is there are some underlying stress, right? Emotional, physical, chemical stress but even deeper above and beyond that, there is some level – there’s some level of  infection that’s deeper that creating inflammation even though it didn’t show via calprotectin or it’s just creating leaky gut. And the whole leaky gut mechanism is getting the immune system fired up. The more the immune system is fired up, it’s just an energy suck for  your body. It’s like uhm—let’s say guests in you guest bathroom that you never go into your house. And they just leave the water on. Just a little bit—little drip, drip, drip. And then you get your water bill at the end of the month, and you’re like, “Where the heck did that bill come from?” And you’re like, “Oh, yeah. The faucet’s on.” But it’s like that with your energy resources. When got these bugs, it really—when the immune system is overactive. And even just a leaky gut, right? The more your immune system is overactive, the more it’s gonna suck your energy dry. That’s why when you get sick, the first symptom you get when you get sick is what? You get a lot of fatigue and malaise coz the immune system is sucking resources. Go ahead—

Evan Brand: I wanna hear uh—a recent case from you, but first I wanna ask you the question that I get asked all the time. And the answer really doesn’t matter because we need to fix the root cause no matter what. But people often ask well– chicken or egg? Was it that ma—my immune system got taxed first? And then I picked up these bacterial pathogens or these parasites? Or did I pick up the parasite and the bacterial pathogens and then that that set my immune system? What’s your take? Can it go either way?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. So typically it’s one of two scenarios, right? Typically someone gets exposed to a very high amount of infectious debris, right? Parasitic—parasites. So you drink some really bad water, you to go Mexico, you have really bad meal or at a foreign country, you get the Bali belly, so to speak. And then you’re overwhelmed with all of that infectious debris and then there’s so much of it that it compromises your immune system, you get diarrhea, you have a lot of gut inflammation that creates malabsorption. That malabsorption puts stress on all of your glandular systems and then you spiral downhill. That’s scenario number one. So just the infectious—the infection was so overwhelming, it just threw everything else downhill. Scenario number two is there some type of immune compromisation  that’s happening. Meaning adrenal stress, poor diet, poor sleep, or poor diet and lifestyle habits, low nutrient density. The immune system’s kinda a little bit weaker underneath the surface then you get exposed to some of these infectious debris at smaller micro levels that are in the food. And eventually makes its way to the system and creates inflammation.

Evan Brand: So yeah—so let me—let me clarify there. If we’ve—If we’ve got diet, lifestyle mostly dialed in, but let’s say people are cheating with gluten, for example. They still got intestinal permeability going on. You can still have good class, good sleep, blah, blah, blah. But if you’ve got just a simple thing like leaky gut, for example, you could potentially be more susceptible to pick up these infections regardless of whatever else is dialed in.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I mean—here’s the deal with leaky gut, too. If you’re creating leaky gut, and then there’s some research, you know, on the non-celiac, gluten sensitivity side of the fence, that looks at these foods. Even if you’re not like reacting to a it, like symptomatically, and even if you’re not like having like IBS -like symptoms,  bloating, you know, gas constipation, diarrhea, that gluten can still create leaky gut. Where the undigested food particles in the gut can make their way into the bloodstream and create stress. And then the LPS that comes in there along with that, that’s the— the bacterial debris can get into bloodstream and create a lot of mood issues as well. So you can still have leaky gut and not risk from gluten— and still not respond to gluten in general.

Evan Brand: Yup. Yup. I just posted a post on uh—Facebook which I think might be a slightly controversial which was I wrote this little bit of a letter and I put kind of like these five things that have happened over the last year or so where people have said, “Evan, I’ve ditched psychiatrist or I’ve ditched my psychologist or my marriage counselor, or my conventional doctor because of functional medicine.” I kinda wrote the reasons why of how if you lower inflammation, you may need less adjustments at the chiropractor, for example. If you heal the gut, you start producing your neurotransmitters optimally, you might not you’re your antidepressants anymore, so you might not need your psychiatrist. Or if you heal your adrenals, you’re not gonna snap at your children anymore, so therefore you’re not gonna need the marriage counselor that is telling you need to stop yelling at your kids. And how basically how functional medicine can literally, not intentionally, but it’s just a side effect is that we can replace these other industries. I’m not saying these other industries are bad for mental health care or anything like that. But a lot of times, this is not root cause medicine. And my wife and I went out you with a friend of ours yesterday and she said she had a lot of stress, she had to put her dog down and she called up her psychiatrist and said, “Hey I need help, I’m freaking out.” What does he do? He prescribed her 60 Xanax and says, “Here’s your Xanax bars and take these.” And I told her, I said, “Listen, your anxiety and your stress from this issue is not a Xanax deficiency.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.

Evan Brand: How about we do some emotional freedom technique. We start tapping. How about we cleanup the diet? And then before we left, out the parking lot, I had her do the quick coherence technique, the Heartmath, like the heart focus breathing.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: And focusing on someone that she loved and we got done with it, and she said, “That was weird.”  I said, “What happened?” And she said, “I got tingly and warm.” I said, “Oh, it worked.” And she said, “What happened?” I said, “Well, you just took yourself out of fight or flight that you’re probably stocked in which is causing you to be dependent on Xanax and now we’ve pushed you into that parasympathetic rest and digest mode.” And she feels better. And this is what this is all about. Uh—a little bit of uh—off-subject uh—, but I just wanted to mention to people, check on my Facebook post and you’ll read about what I’m saying. I’m not saying these other uh— practitioners out there are garbage. What I am saying is that if you’re not getting a practitioner to focus on root cause, even if they are psychiatrist, if they’re not a root cause psychiatrist, then what the hell are they doing?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s all about resources, right? And in functional medicine world, we’re trying to help enhance your resources. So just like someone with more money in their bank account can buy more things, well if we enhance our mental, emotional bank account via healthy and diet and lifestyle functional medicine principles, we have more resources to deal with stress in our life. Whether it’s family, friends, being a parent, being present for our partner, just being able to do the hobbies of a hobbit—hobbits—uh—

Evan Brand: Haha

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: The hobbies and the habits that we have going on in our life.  I got uh—I guess I’m missing my uh – Lord of the Rings movies there. Yeah. So—It ‘s all about resources, right? So we have to make sure that we have enough resources in our system so we can allocate them toward these stressors. And I always tell my patients, “Have you ever tried dealing with stress on 0 night sleep? or “Try doing your taxes the next day when you’re getting like three hours of sleep?”  You’re just  not gonna be able to handle it. You don’t have the resources. So everything we’re trying to do is let’s test the resources of our body systems, let’s look where the hormone’s at, let’s look at where the gut resources are at, let’s look at detox and nutrient resources are at, let’s support them and let’s work on fixing them.

Evan Brand: Well, the analogy I like to use is we’re just using a big spotlight. Because a lot of different industries and health care, what they do is they use like a little laser pointer or like one of those tiny little keychain flashlight. And they shine something real dimly into one corner. And you’re like, “Oh, Justin looks like we found something. We found some anxiety issues, here’s the Xanax.” But instead, we come in with a giant spotlight and we’re like, “Whoa, look at the left corner of this microbiome. We got parasitic and bacterial infections, which can steal your nutrients, can mess up your blood sugar and cause anxiety. Look over here,  we’ve got some adrenal issues. You got spiking of cortisol that’s gonna need to be addressed.” And then we shine the spotlight over here, “Oh, take a look at our detox pathways on the organic acids, you’ve got trouble over here.” And “Oopp, we shine the spotlight behind us, here’s mitochondrial issues. This is why you’re so fatigued.” And that’s the—I think that’s the greatest analogy. It’s a little laser pointer or a little small keychain flashlight, which is just pinpointing one industry of psychiatry or psychology or whatever versus exploring everything. Which is why for you and I, it’s tough for us to become the blank guy. You know people out there, “the thyroid guy” “ the detox chick” “ the bone broth chick” You know what I mean? It’s really gonna be tough for you and I to just say we’re the blank person because I don’t want to limit myself. I wanna let everyone know it is all encompassing.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: And if rest and niche yourself down, I think it’s a bad thing.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Like from a marketing standpoint, right? Marketing is just telling the truth attractively. You know it’s good to have the niche because you wanna reach the people that have special conditions. Because if like, my specialty is thyroid. Number one, I have—I have or had a thyroid issue. It’s under control. Autoimmune thyroid issue. So I’m more passionate about that issue. But again, to treat  a thyroid issue, you have to be able to treat all of the systems. So it’s kind of a mythology, like you don’t just ever treat thyroid, you treat the whole thing. But you may mark and put information out there that’s gonna resonate and speak to someone with a thyroid issue more. But again, the underlying issue is from education and clinical standpoint. We’re addressing the key underlying surface issues and the deep root issues as well. So we’re never ignoring it. We may speak to someone uhm—more specifically and get into the more nuances of that condition, but it all comes back down to the foundational stuff that we always talk about.

Evan Brand: Right. I would say my specialties would be— it’s become parasites really. I mean, I’m seeing so many each week and it’s just so fun. I guess because I had parasites.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You had a parasite, you.

Evan Brand: Uh—Yeah. And also depression, I mean because depression is what got me into this whole thing. IBS and depression in college, I mean, like I told you before, I had to figure out when I went  into a college class, where’s the bathroom. Coz I have to get out in the middle of the class to run to the bathroom.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: And so for me, depression, IBS, parasites, you know, those are all linked together—the whole gut-brain connection. And I really am empathetic for people that have struggled with that because it’s so common and if you diagnosed with IBS, that’s a pretty generic diagnosis. And unless you’re with functional medicine practitioners, you’re gonna get an acid blocker, an antispasmodic—

 Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Absolutely.  

Evan Brand: — or some other drug and—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well actually, you were diagnosed with IBS, right?

Evan Brand: I was.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And you use the antispasmodic, you used the medications that helps with the gastroparesis. You know—

Evan Brand: Well, they never –

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: They even do that—

Evan Brand: Well they never got to use it. They try. They wrote me the prescription pad but I denied all three of the drugs.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And the thing is, too, we can also use natural medicines for a lot of those things. That may not fix the root cause, right? There’s root cause medicine and there is using natural medicine in a way that’s gonna help alleviate the symptoms that’s gonna up regulate physiology so things work better. But we have to still be investigating and digging to the root cause, right? So we’re dealing with someone with gastroparesis or low motility, we may add in things like ginger. We may add in things like carnitine. We may add, you know, higher amounts of mag citrate to keep that uhm—migrating motor complex moving. But we are still digging in deep. We’re still making the diet, the lifestyle. We’re still enhancing digestive nutrients, uh—hydrochloric acid enzymes. And then we’re digging deep for the infections. And we’re trying to lock in those diet and lifestyle habits, right? The supplements are great because they can give us that symptomatic relief while we continue to dig over here to the root cause. So as long as you have, you know, that  four pace envision that addresses some of the symptoms without the side effects, you know of some of the drugs, which may have more side effects than what you’re treating, and then working on the functional medicine plan, I think we’re in a really good place. 

Evan Brand: I agree. Yeah. I actually got a good—good success with that IB Synergy product from designs which get Bonigut in there. It’s got the 5-HTP. I had a guy with just super bad IBS and I said, “Man” I mean he was critically, critically stricken with both diarrhea and constipation just alternating every other day.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: So I have him going with that 5-HTP Bonigut blend. And he got better. Now we start to wait for lab results but yeah—I mean  sometimes we will do some of the quick fix of band-aid situations to fix things, but we still got to work backwards. I guess to answer these questions uh—should we answer the question about the cancer question here or shall we just make a whole show on the future?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. We’ll do a whole show on that. I’ll get some experts on. I got Dr. David Jocker is coming next month as well. He was in the truth about cancer series. And we’ll go on ketogenic diets and we’ll talk more about therapeutic ways to address cancer outside of just the natural chemotherapy. So we’ll hold that one that—we need more time for that.

Evan Brand: Yeah. Agreed. Uh—Samuel asked, “What is the tapping technique? Can you show us? Well since most of our audiences are gonna be audio listeners we’re not gonna take up the air time to show you the technique, but the best resources—EFT (Evan-Frank-Tom) and you can just view the different acupressure meridians that you’re gonna tap. But then also, you’re gonna learn about the affirmations that you can use for emotional freedom technique and that’s something Justin and I use all the time.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think it’s helpful. I’m—I’m gonna just give it 15 seconds of airtime here, so—just—I do two hands coz it’s adding it’s more efficient. But you just tap the  inners part of the eyebrow, the outer parts of the eyebrow, under the eyes, I do under the nose, and the bottom part of the chin the same time. And then I do both collarbones. So I do this, and you can go top of the head and tap midline. So I do two hands coz I just feel like you get more stimulation. So I go here, and I’m just thinking about whatever is pissing me off, my wife, I just think about it.

Evan Brand: Haha

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I kinda give it a number. So if I’m a t like 6/10 regarding irritation, I just think about it. Whatever that issue is, whether it’s like, you know, the person driving  in front of me is so slow  or whatever. And I try to knock that 6 out of 10 so that 10 is the worst.  6 is like 60% to being at the worst. I try to knock it down to a4 to a 3. And so every round—every 2 rounds or so, you kinda just check back in and see if you knock it down. And you go as you kinda knock everything down to a 3.

Evan Brand: Yeah. And we have—I—I start at the top of the crown which I usually like—many ways—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You can do that. You can start there, you can end there.

Evan Brand: Now do you do the sides? I know Mercola, he’s big on the side of rib cage under the armpit.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I do that, too, sometimes. It’s just wasn’t good for a video.

Evan Brand: Yeah. So you criss cross?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I do two at the same time just coz it’s stimulation.

Evan Brand: No. I mean you criss cross your arms so the underarm’s like this. I do like a monkey.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Haha

Evan Brand: And then—and then finish with the wrist. I typically finished by tapping the insides of the wrist together then doing the affirmations. So even though I’m angry, or even though I’m anxious, I deeply love and accept myself. But you gotta say the affirmation verbally. I tell people if you can, if you’re just embarrassed, then don’t do it. But why be embarrassed? Nobody—nobody is paying that much attention to you.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. That depends, too. Like you can do this stuff, and you can kinda say like if you’re at—let’s say, if you’re lying in bed and you’re just really stewing on something and your wife’s next to you and you don’t wanna wake her up, then you can just kinda think it in your head. And then you can just, you know, do the affirmations, tap like this.  And then you can tap here, and think about the issues.

I like them to end, though, with a positive thing. So you can end with something positive. So then I just go into like, “What is it that I want to manifest?” So I’m going into right there. I’m thinking about whatever I’m gonna try to create or produce in my life, I just tap it while I’m thinking about it. And the whole idea of tapping is you’re just stimulating various meridian systems that have been mapped out via acupuncture system for thousands of years. And really what it’s doing is it’s neutralizing the negative response that’s stored in the limbic system or in that subconscious of your—more in the psychological side of it. And you’re trying to kinda rewire it so you can get a good pattern there instead. So then, naturally that reflux is to go back to the better thing and not to the negative thing.

Evan Brand: So if you do affirmation about the bad part, would you do like an affirmation about the bad part and an affirmation for a positive?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes. So I start off with the negative and just try to lessen—lessen it first.

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Coz if you’re—feeling negative, it’s really hard to be positive when you’re negative so I try to decrease the negative to about a three. And then I go into the positive because then, you are in a better place to deal with the positive, right? It’s kinda like when someone tells you to relax and you’re pissed off, like relax, calm down. You just wanna punch him, right? Like, “No, I’m too wound up, come on.”

So I wanna get that dialed in and then now I’m relaxed, now I can rewire it and create some positive things.

Evan Brand: I like it. I like it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So calm down first, and then work on manifestation.

Evan Brand: Should we answer a couple of more questions here?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Let’s hit it, man. Let’s hit it.

Evan Brand: Solam asked, “How long does it take to heal hypochloridia?”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It totally depends, right? If you have emotional stressors that are unresolved ore you’re eating foods that are incredibly inflammatory, maybe never. But if you’re making the root causal changes and your managing your stress, and you’re fixing the underlying gut stuff, I would say within 3 to 6 months, you have a really good chance of not needing hydrochloric acid to digest your food. But again, everyone is different. A longer—the longer the issues been going on, the more severe the infections, and the more infections that are layered in there, I’d say longer, up to a year, at least.

Evan Brand: Yeah. I’ll just have my two cents to that, too. If you had a previous history of a prescription, as a blocker’s proton pump inher—inhibitors are now it’s open to counter like the Xanax or the Toms, or anything like that, or—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Evan Brand: Or if you’ve had H. pylori which we’ve chatted about many times, then I would say it may lengthen that time, too, to fix that stomach acid issue.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: The longer that gut’s has been worn down, the more the immune system is revved up like you get patients are just supersensitive to every little thing. Like I can’t even put in an enzyme, I can’t even put in our apple cider vinegar or lemon juice or the smallest fermented food sets them off. It’s really hard and you’re looking at a couple of years to really dive into it because the immune system is so revved up and it’s so ready to attack the smallest invader that it’s so hard to put things into help and heal it because it’s looking at everything as a foe not a friend.

Evan Brand: Right. We really, really have the baby step in those cases so that’s why—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. Yeah. I mean, just like you heal, with you know, food is medicine there, you go really slow and you do lots of things in broth form, in soup form so it’s – so it is so palatable. There is very little digestion that has to happen. And typically one supplement at a time and one nutrient at a time, titrate up from low to high. Even if it’s something that they can handle, if they go high dose, off the bat,   their immune system just freaks out.

Evan Brand: Well I wanna hit on something you just mentioned which is if we’re talking 1 to 2 years, it takes extreme patient—extreme patience for patients and clinicians because for us, that is a very intensive case for us to take on.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.

Evan Brand: And you know, maybe this is to toot our own horns, maybe it’s just calling out the obvious that we do take the time, you know, with people we’re working  with. Sometimes it maybe 30-45 even an hour-long call for a follow-up just to take these baby steps. Whereas, let’s jus say some of the clinicians that we’ve seen out there, it’s too cookie-cutter approach and they don’t have the mental bandwidth or capacity for empathy to baby step this people.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: So it’s here’s your cookie-cutter protocol, good luck.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: Where with us, we’ve really, really, really gonna get super details.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: And so this is why if you go and you buy like a leaky gut online program or some other type of program, and you get limited results and you get to us, we’re not gonna be surprised if you suffered through that, and you didn’t get a good result. Because at the end of the day, that’s why  Justin and I haven’t created  online courses at this point because it’s—it’s hard for us to sleep at night thinking that we’ve created a program that’s too cookie-cutter. We’ve really got to figure out a way that we’re gonna be able to work in all the minutiae and the small details and the variations—variation A, B and C, D for different people.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: So if someone uh—packages something up all beautiful and says, “Oh, it’s $297 and all your problems are gonna be healed.” Uh—please be a little bit skeptical  of that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I agree. And I’ve talked to you about a patient that I had today that email in that was dropping out of care. And we try to always set realistic expectations. This person just had her labs reviewed a month or two ago, and had multiple parasitic infections, severe adrenal dysfunction, HPA axis dysfunction, and then a lot of issues on her organic tests. Uh— detoxification issues, mitochondrial issues, and we just started with simple adrenal support, made diet and lifestyle changes and she had some— some side-effects so we try to cut things down, go slower. And we’re gonna kinda reconvene and work on supporting detoxification, but person had dropped out. Now, the problem is, to have expectations that things will work off the bat when so many things are wrong like that, expectations are incorrect. So  a lot of people they have preconceived notions even if you spell it out to them and you let them know, “Here’s where we’re at now, here’s where we’re going.” They forget because they—they want it done now. And they think because things didn’t work in that initial uhm—in that initial experience, that there is no way to fix it. So continuing to harp on patients in managing their expectations, even though they have a lot of stuff they’re projecting from past failures, we kinda have to get through it. Make sure expectations are real and that make sure they know, “Hey, here’s where we’re going now. Here’s where we’re going next.” These things ahead that may have to be dealt with for us to really see great changes.

Evan Brand: Yup. Well said. We got another question here.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Let’s hit ‘em.

Evan Brand: Let’s hit Steve’s question. After all GI infections are eradicated, how long does it take the gut to fully heal? All my infections are gone, but I’m still dealing with IBS, leaky gut and issues after H. pylori.” I’m gonna hit on this first Dr. Justin Marchegiani, if you don’t mind.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup. I know you’re gonna say it, by the way.

Evan Brand: Okay. So – haha if—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: If you say it—If you say it, I’ll—I’ll tell you that.

Evan Brand: Okay. Alright. Please. Alright. So here’s what I’m gonna say. You say all your infections are gone, but you’re still dealing with IBS, leaky gut, and issues, I would like to know what test was this that says all your infections are gone because I bet all of your infections are not gone.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes! Whoo! I knew it. Yeah. You’re totally right.

Evan Brand: Haha

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. You’re totally right. And then also, just making sure that you have the digestive nutrients on board to help heal the gut lining and the digestive support to break down the food and then I would make the food more—more palatable right now. I’d be looking more at the GAPS or an SCD or more of a soup or broth approach that makes the food really easy to take in. No raw veggies, uhm—try to keep it really palatable so the body can access it without much stress.

Evan Brand: Alright. So the beauty of the Internet, Stevie says—Stevie replied and he says, “DRG” Well, uhm— Justin–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s missing a lot of them. It’s missing a lot. You gotta do the DRG with the GI map. I a—I never do the DRG by itself for the most part—always both. You gotta do both.

Evan Brand: Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And if there’s still an issue with the DRG and the GI MAP, I want them go for the  41 side-by-side.

Evan Brand: Yup. Agreed. So, Stevie, not that—you know, we’re not diagnosing you. That’s not what these calls are for. But, hey, Justin and I have seen a lot of false negatives with DRG and some other test out there. So potentially some stuff going on. And I would like to add a couple of points about like the—the issues, the leaky gut type stuff. You know, make sure you are doing some of the easy supports, too. You know, chamomile is great. You can do chamomile in a supplemental form. You’ve got chamomile teas, uhm—you’ve got L- glutamine. So there are some leaky gut supplements that why your til—still trying to figure stuff out, you can still be taking support of nutrients in the meantime while waiting for retest.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. Totally. Let’s hit  the uh—last question there by—E Center Riley. See here, just diagnosed with Hashimoto’s, TPO and TGB bodies, 465 is that high? Eliminated the foods, gluten, dairy, soy, balance in blood sugar, hard with 5 kids. What should I focus on next? So 465 is definitely high. The LabCorp reference range for TPO is 34. Anything 34 above is considered positive—I think it’s above 34. 34 below is considered positive. And anything about 20, for me, I considered to be subclinical. So that is high. Anything above or around 500 is definitely high. I’ve seen patients at 2000, though. I’ve seen patients that go from 2000 to below a 100. Now, my goal is to get people—If I were you, I’d like to see a 70 to 80% reduction in that. Again, maybe you were higher before you made those changes. So I’m not sure if it was  gluten, dairy, soy. That stuff was cut out and then you saw the drop. But either way, uhm—getting enough selenium in there, 400 micrograms of selenium, addressing the underlying infections, things like H. pylori, Blasto and Yersinia can be coming to increase the antibodies. And then making sure the adrenals are looked at. There’s a strong adrenal-thyroid connection and a lot of people who have thyroid issues also have adrenal issues. And remember, TPO is a microsomal or essentially it’s uh—intracellular microsomal antibody that helps bind the thyroid hormone together. So if you’re making antibodies to that, it’s gonna prevent that thyroid hormone that I—Iodination process from occurring. So making sure we have the adrenal support there because the adrenals help produce cortisol. Cortisol is an anti-inflammatory that’s gonna help with the inflammation. And with the TPO there uhm—you could potentially have increase in hydrogen peroxide, especially if there’s small amounts of iodine getting in there. So get them the selenium will help neutralize that hydrogen peroxide into H20. High quality H20 which is uh—not gonna be as inflammatory.

Evan Brand: Well said. Yeah. And so uhm—Isabella Wentz, I just did podcast with her a couple of weeks ago. Actually that was my last uploaded episode. And uhm—we’re talking about bacterial infections, too. So you mentioned some of the parasites and she’s seen the same thing the parasite but also the bacteria. The Klebsiella, the Citrobacter, and all these autoimmune triggers has been bad guys for uh—these Hashimoto’s situations and these antibodies, so—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, look for the bacteria, too, and you can definitely fix this stuff and you can make significant progress.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. I mean one person here, wildlab access, “How do you test for various enzymes?”Number one, if you have gut stress, you probably have low hydrochloric acid. And if you have low hydrochloric acid, you probably have low enzymes. Why? Because hydrochloric acid is important for acts of—for converting pepsinogen to pepsin which is the proteolytic enzyme. Hydrochloric acid lowers the acidity of the chyme, which is the mixed up food in the intestine. That inten—that food that chyme that goes into the small intestine which the acidity then triggers the pancreas to make bicarbonate, it also triggers CCK that then caused that the gallbladder to produce bile that also stimulates the pancreas to make light based trypsin and chymotrypsin and all the enzymes that come down. So if you have enzyme issues, you also have hydrochloric acid issues, but we can also assess it by looking at enzyme markers, like elastase, too, which will uhm—look at that in the DRG or the GI MAP test.

Evan Brand: You better get that frog out.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Frog out. It just attacked me, man. I’m like, Ugh—

Evan Brand: Alright.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: My water—so uh—yeah. Elastase, I think it’s elastase 1 is the enzyme marker we typically look at for uhm— low enzymes. But typically, just assuming that we have digestive stress, let’s assume it for sure.

Evan Brand: Yeah. I mean that’s the same—the same answer that I would say for the leaky gut. I had people say, “Oh, can you test me for leaky gut?”  It’s like, “Yeah. We can go to Cyrex and spend 500 bucks if you want to, but based on your symptoms, I guarantee there’s intestinal permeability. You’ve got XYZ. And we can—we don’t need to spend the 500 bucks on that test. Save your money for the organic acids, your comprehensive stool panels, the GPL-TOX, maybe heavy metal testing. Save your money for that stuff that you can’t really guess on.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Absolutely. I agree, man. Well, anything else you wanna hit off the bat here? I mean I think—I had some really good successes last week, too, with some patients that had chronic pain, chronic mood, chronic energy, hair loss. And I mean—just really simple things. We—we fix their hormones, this person has autoimmune thyroid, uhm—hypothyroid as well. T3 was super low, it was uh– T4 to T3 conversion issue, dysregulated cortisol. They had a lot of malabsorption and they had a couple of infections and we just—we just took them down the map. An then just everything first time around, uhm—just knocked in place. I mean it’s like you swing the bat once and it’s connected. It’s gone. Those were the patients where its like, “It’s just so rewarding coz it’s just—it’s easy” And then you have  some patients where it’s a lot more trial and error and digging in. So it’s nice to have those home runs every now and then.

Evan Brand: Oh, man. I—so I had a home run earlier with this guy that I got off the phone with name Dion. And he was on an inhaler. An asthma inhaler.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: And also I believe he was taking uh—allergy medication, like a prescription allergy medication.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: Maybe it was one or the other. He alternated or he was on the inhaler something. But he was on prescriptions for allergies. And all we did is we cleaned up the diet, we’ve addressed some gut infections. He had candida and I believe a couple bacterial infections. I don’t believe he had parasites. I have to look back. But I remember a couple of infections, fix the gut, uh—supported adrenal’s basic adrenal support, some adaptogens. And I talked with him today and he said, “Evan, I’ve not used my medication in the last six weeks. And everything is blooming here right now. All the trees and plants and everything are blooming and normally, I’m debilitated. He said, “I’m completely fine.”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Isn’t that awesome?

Evan Brand: How in the world just by working on the gut and adrenals am I not allergic to the environment anymore? It’s just like, “Oh, it makes me feel so good.”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I see that all the time, too. And hydrochloric acid is one of those things that’s really great with allergies, too. You notice that?

Evan Brand: Ain’t that weird? I mean since digestive enzymes, I told him, I said, “Man, we’ve gotta keep up digestive enzymes.” And then actually I am gonna send him a bottle of some of the like natural herbal anti-histamines, just in case. Because he started sneezing on the phone. I’m like, “Whoa, maybe you’re not all the way out of the water yet. Have this on hand, in case you need it.” So the coresatin in, the rutin, some of those–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hesperetin

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: The things I love for allergies: number one, just really get a good air filter. I used one by Advanced Air. You can see that at Look at the approved products. I like it. It’s good. Uhm—and then your natural anti-histamine degranulating compounds. In my product, Aller Clear. Stinging Nettle, coresatin, and then you’re gonna have like some vitamin C in that, some potassium bicarb as well. So those are really good. And you can go up to eat. The nice thing about it, just not gonna be drowsy. So you can get that allergy support without getting the drowsiness and then really make sure the diet is anti-inflammatory. Up the hydrochloric acid because HDL is really important with low—with allergy. It’s gonna make a big difference.

Evan Brand: Yup, Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Ginger. Ginger is phenomenal, too, for allergies. Really good.

Evan Brand: I love ginger. So it’s a great nutrient. I’d do teas, ginger kombucha, there’s so much you can do with ginger.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, yeah. By the way, right after this, I’ve got a new grill. So I’m gonna go out, I’m gonna grill some grass-fed hotdogs, right? And then I’ve got some sauerkraut with mustard. And I’ve got a nice ginger kombucha, I’m gonna open up. So I’m really excited for my lunch break today.

Evan Brand: Nice. What kind of grill? Is that one of those  pellet jobs?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I actually—I got a new Webber just because it’s—it’s—my other one was 10 years old. And then the knobs are starting to go. So I got a nice, little Webber Spirit. So it’s great. It’s got three burners. Love it. And uhm—I got a smoker that I use sometimes for ribs on the weekend just like a 4-hour job. So it’s good to have a day or an afternoon to kinda be at home to enjoy that one but—Yeah. So love my grilling. Try not to get things charred. Try to keep the heterocyclic amines and the polyaromatic hydrocarbons to a minimum.

Evan Brand: Agreed. Agreed, man. Cool. Well I don’t have one on my end.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You wanna have a share?

Evan Brand: No.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hope you guys are liking these calls here. We wanna do more. We wanna connect with the listeners. Our purpose really is to serve and help people get their health back. If people want more feedback, or want more kinda like rolling up the sleeves and specifically diving into your case, go to or, click on the schedule buttons. And we are here to help you out. Evan, anything else, man?

Evan Brand: That’s it. Have a great day people, drink clean water, get rest, reduce stress, be grateful. It’s gonna go a long way.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And people on Facebook, I’m hoping we can get Evan on here soon. We gotta just  figure that out. So hopefully, soon we’ll do that. So Evan, great chatting with you, man. We’ll talk soon.

Evan Brand: Take Care. Bye.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Bye.



Thyroid and Nutrient Deficiencies Live Q & A – Podcast #125

Dr. Justin Marchegiani and Evan Brand dive into an exciting discussion all about thyroid. Listen carefully as they engage in a dynamic conversation with the listeners and share some valuable information regarding their functional medicine approach on issues relating to thyroid; its connection to adrenal health, gut health, nutrition, and infections.

Learn about the hyper- and hypo- symptoms related to thyroid issues. Find out how other conditions like leaky gut and other infections are linked to thyroid health. Gain valuable information on different tests used to assess thyroid health and rule out other conditions contributing to thyroid issues. Increase your awareness about the different sources, like foods, supplements, and metals which all impacts thyroid function.

In this episode, we cover:

04:19   Thyroid and its connection to adrenals and leaky gut

12:50   Testing for Autoimmunity

16:42   Infections and Thyroid Health Connection

21:35   Cortisol Lab Test for Adrenal Issue

28:36   Thyroid Symptoms and Assessment

32:23   Iron

37:20   Gluten and its connection to leaky gut

54:23   Mercury

58:25   Iodine







Dr. Justin Marchegiani: YouTube as well. Any questions, feel free to type them in. Today’s podcast will be on thyroid. Evan, can you hear me okay?

Evan Brand: I sure can. You sound good.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Awesome, man. We are live. What’s going on, man?

Evan Brand: Oh, not too much. Like I told you, somebody in France has had a fun weekend with my business credit card. So uh – besides that, everything is good.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool, man. Yeah. Well, at least you got a capital one card, so you’re pretty well protected, right?

Evan Brand: Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s awesome. So we’re live on Facebook and YouTube. Again, better to be on YouTube, my opinion coz you get to see Evan and myself. If you’re watching me on Facebook right now, we’re a little compromised. We only got my feedback. You’re not gonna hear Evan’s side of it. So feel free and check out to be able to see Evan’s pretty face and be able to get some questions there. But we will answer questions on Facebook Live, too.

Evan Brand: Cool. So today we wanted to talk about thyroid. There is many lab test out there that you can get. Still, conventional doctors are not running the lab tests that are important, though, some of these antibody markers, some of the reverse T3 markers. Maybe you should briefly chat about that just since people maybe on Facebook. Talk people through why is this happening? Why are these conventional doctors not running these other important thyroid markers? Why is it just TSH and some of the other boring stuff?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Great question. And again, today we’re talking about thyroid and we talked about this topic a lot, done a lot of videos on it. I have a book coming out on this very shortly as well. So I’m just kinda do a brief overview. Feel free and check out Evan’s page not just and his podcast from more info as well as mine. We’ll give you more info here today. Hopefully we’ll be able to have a live interaction. But Evan’s question is for the Facebook live listeners. “Can we get podcast live on YouTube, too?” is the question about conventional thyroid issues versus functional thyroid issues. And this is a big difference, and most people they go and get help from their conventional physicians on matters of thyroid issues. They think that their conventional doctor is ruling them out for thyroid issues and they may, if it’s an extreme thyroid issue. You know, very, very high TSH, extreme thyroid swelling, uhm – maybe while hyper-symptoms if their grades are on the hyper side, or if they have a lot of thyroid destruction, or goiter things. They may get picked up by conventional testing, but many patients they aren’t getting picked up on conventional testing because they’re kinda in no man’s land. Conventional medicine looks at things like an on and off switch. You’re either healthy, right? The light’s on. Or you’re unhealthy, the light’s off. And we know in functional medicine world, that light switch is more of the dimmer switch, right? The light may be on halfway, right? You’re halfway healthy; or another way to look at it, you’re halfway to not being healthy. But it may not be all the way off. Maybe just flickering a little bit. And unless you’re all the way off, what’s gonna happen is they’re not gonna see anything wrong with your health issues regarding your thyroid. And they’re not gonna make any recommendations for interventions. And that’s the biggest problem. With thyroid issues, looking from the conventional to the functional medicine realm. And also, you have to look at the tools that they have right there. One tool – most part two, you’re gonna have some kinda surgical intervention or you gonna have some kind of uhm – pharmaceutical intervention. None of which typically fixes the root cause of what’s going on. Especially when we understand that thyroid issues are 90% autoimmune in nature. I’d say at least 50-90%. So we know if it’s autoimmune, and we don’t fix the underlying cause of why the autoimmunity is there, right? Then the underlying mechanism of the antibody is in the immune system attacking the thyroid tissue is still happening in the background.

Evan Brand: That’s terrible. I mean we’ve got thousands of people at this point who we work with, where they’re on thyroid drugs, and they still feel terrible. And I’ll go back and say, “Hey Doc, look, give up my Synthroid or other pharmaceutical, I still feel terrible.” And they’re just gonna up the drug more and more and more. So it’s like you’re jamming this gas pedal down, but you are not figuring out what’s the issue in the first place. And so for us, we’ll always gonna be looking at the gut; looking for infection; seeing what could be going on; why is there some type of attack going on. And then also looking at adrenals, too. And figure out what’s the adrenal thyroid connection. Maybe you could brief people on that a little bit? How someone with adrenal issues could have thyroid issues and vice versa.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. So Evan, your question was looking at adrenals thyroid issues, we also have a listener question as well, talking about thyroid and gluten sensitivity. I’ll try to intertwine with the two answers. But again, adrenals are really important because you have cortisol production coming from the adrenals, which is important for managing stress and inflammation. Also, generally energy via blood sugar. Also, cortisol – is they differ healthy thyroid conversion. So if we have two high cortisol, or if your stress response is too high, we’re kinda in a Stage I adrenal issue that can block thyroid conversion. So we have this T4 thyroid hormone that gets converted down to the T3. And T4 is relatively inactive compared to T3.  So we have to make this conversion. There’s a lot of things that are needed for that, whether it’s selenium, or zinc, or vitamin A, or other nutrients to help make that conversion. But cortisol, from a hormonal perspective, is also needed. So if we’re too low on our response, right? We have this HPA axis, this regulation, the brain, the agent P, the hypothalamus and pituitary are hypo functioning. They’re dysregulated like a broken thermostat in your house – doesn’t turn on the heat, or turn on the air conditioning. That same thing is needed to help make that conversion from T4 to T3. So we have depleted adrenals that can strongly, strongly be an inhibiting factor of thyroid conversion. And also, if we have too much stress, one of the mechanisms the body does to regulate the stress response, is to make more reverse T3, which is essentially like taking uhm – the clip by the – your gun and putting blanks in there. So they kinda – they fit into the – into the magazine. They fit into the cartridge, right? But they fire, but that then you don’t get the same metabolic effect. You don’t get the increase in energy; don’t get all of the hormonal benefits; you don’t have the warmness and the increased blood circulation; and you don’t have the degradation of cholesterol and other hormonal byproducts. So you can see that the adrenals are intimately connected. Now answering the person’s question here on gluten. Gluten is really important because that’s a big strong – That’s a big stimulator of leaky gut. So gluten exposure can drive leaky gut. What it does is it increases zonulin, which unzips the tight junctions in a lot of patients, even people that are necessarily having a response to gluten. It shows that there is still uh – intestinal permeability that’s happening. And the more food particles that get into the bloodstream, the more LPS is in the gut, the more that can unzip the gut, the more – allow more food particles in there, and create more immune stimulation. And it’s also inflammatory in the gut, too. And also can create this concept known as molecular mimicry, where the immune system sees the surface proteins, and it can mistakenly identified it is the thyroid, and it starts attacking the thyroid tissue, creating more inflammation. And that can cause these thyroid follicles. So still, that hormone is creating unbalanced levels.

Evan Brand: And this could all come from gluten exposure, you’re saying?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It can all come from gluten exposure. Gluten is one strongest stimulators of leaky gut, along with distress, along with LPS, which is a compound produced from bacterial overgrowth, right? So the worse stomach acid, the more stress we have, the more essentially we’re not breaking down our food, the more we’re gonna have bad bacterial overgrowth that’s gonna increase LPS, that’s gonna unzip those tight junctions even faster, which is gonna create more immune issues, more food allergy issues. Because think about it, right? The immune system shouldn’t be getting revved up to deal with food; shouldn’t be getting revved up to deal with the digestion. So the more that’s happening- well what that means is that your immune system is going in overdrive. One of the major reason why people are when they’re sick – think about it. Because their immune system sucks up so much energy. So the more you’re revving up your immune system by just consuming food, you’re gonna be constantly tired. And that’s just gonna drain your adrenals, and drain your thyroid, and increase that thyroid autoimmune attack.

Evan Brand: Yup. Well said. So I mean, we got the zonulin. What’s the link there between the zonulin and LPS? So are these connected at all? Or are these going up and down in relationship to each other?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yes. So the more zonulin you have, typically the more leaky gut you’re gonna have, right? So vitamin D is actually a zonulin inhibitor. So the more zonulin you have, the more leaky gut. So LPS will increase zonulin. Infections will increase zonulin. Gluten will increase zonulin. And that basically, if this is like Parker jacket, you’re wearing that’s kinda like unzipping those tight junctions and then basically food particles can get in there.LPS particles can get in there. When LPS flows to the brain and makes it way up to the brain, leaky gut, leaky brain that LPS can create inflammation in the brain which feels like brain fog, which feels like mood issues, which feels like depression, which feels like anxiety. And this is really hard for a lot of people. Getting back to Evan’s question on gluten and the brain, is people may have a gluten issue. Think that well gluten has to cause digestive problems diarrhea, bloating, gas, reflux constipation, diarrhea. But it may not – It may be causing depression, anxiety brain fog, poor memory, poor uh – just word recall. And you may have a gluten issue, but it may not be even because by – you know, you may not see it because it’s not those conventional symptoms. And again, that same thing is gonna create thyroid issues, too. Coz that same mechanism that opens up the lining of the blood-brain barrier and the brain, also affect the gut, which then creates that more autoimmune thyroid attack.

Evan Brand: Well said. And there’s a lot of people that justify eating gluten to us. Whether it’s like organic wheat, or they’re doing some type of like sprouted wheat, or something like that. But gluten is gluten, and even if you’re not celiac – now there is research that shows that celiacs are gonna have30 times higher zonulin levels than a non-celiac. So massive, massive leaky gut in the celiac person in comparison.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Evan Brand: But still, we could even talk about the study. It’s Scandinavian Journal of Gastroenterology. It showed that gliadin, which is a gluten protein can affect zonulin even in people without the gene for celiac.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Evan Brand: And so basically they said, “All gliadin, regardless of what – whether you are celiac or not, it’s still going to activate zonulin, therefore leaky gut, therefore this LPS, these endotoxins are gonna get in there.”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.

Evan Brand: Which is crazy. And – and I love that. I love that the science because then you and I aren’t the bad guys when we’re telling people to get rid of gluten. It’s like, “Look, here is the research.” Yeah, maybe you don’t get a – acne from gluten, but you still causing leaky gut, regardless. I love that we can actually prove that and it’s not just up for – it’s not just our opinion coz we’re the nutrition guys.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s the key thing that you mention there, Evan. The zonulin and the gluten can trigger the leaky gut and you may not necessarily have an autoimmunity, and the question is the more stressed you become, the more compromised you become, the more your toxic burden, your stress burden, the more  your – the physical, chemical, emotional stress buckets get full. That’s where your body’s ability to adapt to stress really becomes inhibited. And again, the biggest mechanism really is, leaky gut. Even if you’re not necessarily gluten sensitive, you may be getting a leaky gut, which is adding stress to that stress bucket, right? It’s decreasing stomach acid; it’s decreasing enzymes; it’s increasing the ability to have food allergens; it’s increasing transfer infections and SIBO.Because the more your immune system is weakening the gut, the more that force field, that IgA gets lower, and the more critters can come in. So, yeah, 100%. And again a lot of people – I’m not a big fan of gluten because its, one: it’s hard to break down, it’s heavily pesticide, it’s low in nutrient density. A lot of the anthropological data shows that it’s been consumed only about 10,000 years ago, and the people that are consuming it typically have lower bodies – body stature, smaller in uhm – skeletal structure and increased risk for osteoporosis. Again, hunter gatherers tend to be more forgers uhm – starchy tubers, berries. Those kind of things, and obviously, meat and bone marrow. You study how the brain evolved. Really, it was the hand axe that allowed us to carve into bones and access bone marrow, and then creates spears to kill animals, and access that nutrients to grow our brains massively. Omega-3 is fat from the fish. So all of those things were huge in evolving our brain. Now, getting back to thyroid-We got a couple questions over here from the listener’s here on YouTube. So I’m gonna list a couple of. Couple is “how do you test autoimmunity?”Number one: kinda tying it back thyroid. We would look at TPO, or Thyroid Peroxidase antibodies or anti thyroid globulin antibodies; we’ll look for immune attack on the thyroid tissue. Also, we can look at TSI, immunoglubin, which is a marker for Graves’ disease, which is also a thyroid condition; or TSH receptor antibodies for the hyper- TSH receptor antibodies for the hyper; TSI for the hyper; and then TPO and thyroglobulin antibodies for the hypo. Now again, you can have the hypo antibodies, though, and have hyper symptoms initially. So you can kinda be on both stages at one point. So just kinda keep that in mind.

Evan Brand: And then more time, just so people are clear to that. Seems a bit confusing.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: A lot of people that start out with hyperthyroid – or sorry – hypothyroid antibodies, low thyroid function antibodies, the TPO and thyroglobulin bodies, even though those are markers for a hypo-, Hashimoto’s, they can progress into hyper- symptoms initially because your thyroid follicle have about four months of thyroid hormone stored in it. So what that means is, you can spill out that thyroid hormone many, many months before, even up to a year or so, before you actually get depleted and go low. And that’s where the TSH gets really high. TSH will go high as the thyroid gets depleted, but in the initial attacks, in the first year or so, you may feel more hyper- symptoms even though it is a hypo– Hashimoto thyroid mechanism that’s happening.

Evan Brand: Uh, got it.  Well said. Okay. So, people may self-diagnose themselves with hyperthyroidism, your saying that it could actually be a hypo-caused by Hashimoto situation that’s going on. They just don’t feel the full effects yet coz it’s a new – it’s a new attack. Is that correct?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. So the symptoms they may have is irritability, anxiety, mood issues, difficulty sleeping, heart palpitations, uhm – they may have like tired but wired kinda feeling. Those are the big things that they’re gonna have. I would say, yeah, the anxiety is gonna be a big one. Difficulty sleeping is gonna be a big one. Where the hypo- symptoms star to come in, again you may still have anxiety; you may still depression. The big differences is you’re gonna start to see the hair thinning because thyroid hormones are needed for hair follicle growth. So the outer thirds of the eyebrows go; the hair starts to thin on top; cold hands and cold feet it starts to happen. You may start to see constipation issue, too. You may start to see your triglycerides and your cholesterol go up. Again, infections can cause constipation, too. Uh – increase insulin can also cause increase cholesterol and triglyceride, too. So there’s other things. But that’s a general indication, is the cold hands, cold feet, the fatigue, the hair loss, the constipation and the increase in lipids you’re gonna see. That’s why you wanna test full thyroid panel, which is gonna consist of TSH, brain hormone, T4,inactive thyroid hormone (free and total), T3, which is converted peripherally 20%, and 80% throughout the body (free and total) and obviously you T3 uptake. You can look at thyroid binding globulin, which can go up or down if you have PCOS or on birth control. And then also reverse T3 and all the antibodies I mentioned.

Evan Brand: Yes. So I’ve also16:19read about another one that I’ve not seen used very much called TRAB, thyroid stimulating hormone receptor antibody, but it says that the antibodies are only ordered when someone is hyper- . And a positive result for that usually means great. So I’m not seeing that one that often, though.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s just a different name for I think the TSH receptor antibodies. Like TPO also has a like a name called,microsomal antibodies. So again, typically it’s the same names. So TSH receptor antibodies that’s probably another name for that, just like the microsomal is the same name for TPO.

Evan Brand: Uhh. Okay, got it. Now should we talk about – Is this is the time we should talk about the link between infections and thyroid health? Because people that were looking at, we’re not just gonna look at thyroid, we’re gonna look at the gut, too. And the average between us is about 1 in 3 of having infections. You know, every third person is gonna show up with infection. Sometimes even – you know those weak. Sometimes it’s 9 out of every 10 people has a parasite or other infection.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. So we have a few questions coming on the uhm – YouTube Live board here that we’ll kinda tie in. But yes, so the big infections that can affect thyroid and can increase that thyroid autoimmunity: H. Pylori, okay, Yersinia, Enterocolitica, blasto, E. histo. Those are gonna be the big ones that are really gonna affect the thyroid. Even Lyme has a specific amino acid pattern that can create autoimmunity to the thyroid. So for sure, those are the big ones. You know, there’s been study showing that when you eradicate H. Pylori – It’s Italian study out there, that thyroid antibodies significantly drop. I have a video on blasto, right? Blasto infections are resolved, antibodies drop. Same with Yersinia, infections drop. As you attack Lyme, antibodies drop. So that can be a big stimulator and drive more leaky gut, more zonulin, more immune stress, which then creates more stomach acid and enzyme environments, which creates more adrenal stress, more thyroid stressed, and more nutrient deficiencies which perpetuate everything. So you can see, if don’t get to the root cause in this, that’s fine. You can go see your conventional medical doctor to make sure your TSH isn’t elevated, right? But in the end, you’re still gonna be suffering. And that’s why I have so many patients then I know you do as well that have all these symptoms. And I’ve seen a doctor for over a decade and are just tired of it. Alright, you know, this can’t just be my thyroid and all that we done is on 50 mics or 100 mics of Synthroid and that’s it. We can’t do anything else. They know there’s something more and that’s why they are reaching for people like you and myself, Evan.

Evan Brand: Yeah. Well in toolbox, it’s just not there, right. I mean, it’s not their fault. They’re just doing all that they’ve got. That’s the only tool in the – in the shed. The surgery or wait till you have some type of disease, or some big nodule, or a goiter or something crazy. And now, okay, now we have to do surgery.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And a lot of people are talking about, “Well, what if you don’t have antibodies coming back on your thyroid?” My personal take on that is, above 40% comeback false negative. So it’s negative, but it could be positive. So what does that mean? Well, typically I’ll run the antibodies on someone at least three or four times before I say that they probably don’t have – they probably don’t have an autoimmune issue – at least 3 or 4 times. Now, the gold standard is a biopsy. Still going with a needle aspiration, and they poke it into the thyroid, they’ll if the tissues have any lymphocyte infiltration. So there’s an immune response going into the thyroid. So you can also have – you know your conventional physician palpate it. They’ll typically reach around your neck. So here’s my Adam’s apple, so it’s down just maybe a centimeter, and then out 1 or 2 cm. So it’s right here. And then you can typically run your finger right across it, then you can touch and push from one side to the other, and just feel the surface. See if it’s smooth, and then you can swallow, and feel that structure. And you can feel like a little nodule or a little bump and that’s possible. A nodule can typically mean autoimmunity or can mean an iodine deficiency. You can go to your conventional physician for that. I talked about the needle aspir –aspiration, but I don’t recommend unless you have – must you really want to know a hundred percent. The next more conservative approach would be a thyroid ultrasound to see if there is any swelling at all. Yeah. And that will be – those will be – My first line of defense would be, “Alright, let’s do your antibodies.” Second line would be ultrasound. I typically wouldn’t recommend the needle biopsy unless you are more worried about the cancer side of it, right? If I’m more worried about cancer then we may do that, or we may do a thyroid scan. But again, those are more invasive. I really only want to see those if we’re trying to rule out cancer. Coz typically the ultrasound and the antibodies will be the best. And we know, uncontrolled Hashimoto’s can lead to cancer, right? It increases your risk of cancer. So everything we’re doing is actually decreasing someone’s thyroid from progressing to a mandibular, papillary, follicular cancer. That’s – that’s the goal. So regarding that piece, everything we’re doing is gonna work either way because we’re mitigating the gluten in the food; or reducing the infection load; or upping the nutrients to help lower antibodies and help the thyroid convert; or making all diet and lifestyle changes and getting rid of the infection, which are gonna help improve the thyroid conversion, activation, and  the upstream signaling downstream.

Evan Brand: Early on in the chat, someone asked, “How should one read the cortisol lab test for adrenal fatigue?” “What numbers indicate the issue?” That’s gonna depend on the lab. Justin and I really like Biohealth, especially because they’ve got a brand-new test that were using now, which is six-point cortisol test. So any practitioners that are using a four-point cortisol test on you-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm. Yup.

Evan Brand: They’re outdated. They need to get with the –the times. With the 2017, six point is the new one. And how can you read the numbers? Well, typically there’s gonna be like a high patient line, a low patient line and then you would wannabe right in between those sandwich. And it’s gonna depend. So other labs are gonna have different – you know, different markers, different reference ranges. So for us to read a reference ranges to you, will be really boring. Uh – but basically long story short, you wanna be perfectly sandwiched in between those two lines. And it’s very rare that we see somebody in that. Most of the time we’re gonna see a low cortisol picture. And this is a low-free cortisol.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Exactly.

Evan Brand: They’re gonna be low pretty much all day. And this is for most people. And so, then we have to keep digging deeper.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Evan Brand: We don’t just throw them a bunch of adrenal support and say, “goodluck” We gotta figure out what – why is this happening?  Is there a lot of emotional stresses, or chemical stresses, or thyroid issues, or parasites? And these are the other pieces of the puzzle.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. So you made some really good points there. So with the adrenal, the car test, the adrenal, the uhm – the cortisol-adrenal response, especially in the morning. Cortisol starts off low in that first initial bit of waking up, and really pops up in the first half-hour to one hour after waking. So Evan and I are looking more at those types of test to see how that cortisol awakening response is happening in the morning. Coz cortisol is so important for thyroid activation to prevent T3 pooling, which is T3 not getting into the cells, as well as to prevent reverse T3 up-regulation, right? Reverse T3 is the uh – the blanks. The blank bullets that fit into the magazine that prevent the real bullets from getting fired. The real thyroid hormone being the real bullets, upregulating your metabolism. So those are the things that we’re looking at. And I agree, cortisol, and low cortisol, and low thyroid can intimately feel the same, right? We have patients sometimes that will feel like, “hmm, do they have a thyroid issue or adrenal issue?” We’ll run both test and we’ll see their TSH is, let’s say: 1, 1.5; T3 is at 3, 3.2; and their conversion is okay. But we’ll see, “Oh, yeah” their cortisol awakening response is terrible. Their cortisol is low; their DHEA is depleted. If they’re female patient, their hormones are off, right? So we’ll see. We’ll be able to  differentiate the two. And if you’re just going based of a symptoms, and trying to self-treat yourself, it’s gonna be really hard. You start going in one direction over the other. You may not get better. And a lot of patients, they instantaneously wanna go get their thyroid supported and treated first. The problem with that is, you increase thyroid hormone levels, and you already have lower cortisol. You can actually lower your cortisol even more, right? Just go google uhm – Addison’s disease, which is cortisol failure, right? – Addison’s disease, contraindications – And one of the contraindications you’ll see on their thyroid hormone because thyroid hormone can actually lower cortisol more. Coz think about it, right? Thyroid increases metabolism. The more your metabolism is increased, the more you metabolize through your hormones as well. So if we lower our hormones, and you are already at super low cortisol to begin with, you can actually feel worse as well. A lot of people feel worse when they just go after their thyroid and it can really create more problems.

Evan Brand: Wow. Now that you say that, I’m picturing a woman last week who, she was on Levothyroxine for a very long time. Her cortisol levels were like the lowest I’ve ever seen. So I wonder if it’s that drug that’s contributed to her cortisol being even lower than it would have been without the drug. What do you think?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. You can see patients that they go on their thyroid support, and they start feeling worse. And it’s just – it’s really difficult because if they’re seeing a functional medicine practitioner, they may lose faith in that person, right? And – and just say, “Hey, I’m just gonna keep on doing what I’m doing. I’m just gonna go back on the Synthroid.” So you have that aspect there, right? And then uhm – also have the fact that you know, what’s primary? A lot of people have in – the adrenal issue is the more primary issue. And if we start treating that first, then we may get the patient feeling better, which then creates more compliance. The more compliance, the more – the more the patient’s gonna follow through on diet, on lifestyle, on addressing infections. And that gives us a better chance to leverage the patients to do the right thing to heal.

Evan Brand: Well said. And plus, if the adrenals get back online, then we know that that conversion from T4 to T3 active is gonna be better. So they may not even need to go to the “thyroid support” if all these other root causes were the biggest thing. I mean it’s a parasite and an adrenal problem. If you fix those two things, is it possible you can get away with never going into, “Hey this is your thyroid program now. We just have to fix the other pieces.”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Absolutely. So uhm – looking at that piece, you’re hundred percent right. I see so many patients, we’ll measure their thyroid temperature like their basal temperature. And again, for basal temps: 97.8 to 98.2 °F is gonna be where you wanna be for your armpit axillary temperature; and then98.2 to 98.6 °F is oral temperature. And typically do that in the morning before you get out of bed. And also do it sometime in the afternoon before you have lunch, and kinda do a general average. And again, a lot of people will be relatively low, and they’ll start to see their temperatures start going up uhm – as we treat the adrenals. One of the big things we see with the adrenals is we see an erratic temperature. The temperature is kinda bouncing around. Anything greater than .3°F can be – can lead to be a sign of a potential adrenal issue via a temp.

Evan Brand: Let me ask this. Let me ask this with you. So you’re saying, .3 difference. So that would mean if you woke up one day and you tested your armpit temperature, let’s say you were 98° flat in your armpit before you got out of bed, then the next day, you’re at 98.3. To you, that’s gonna signify thyroid and adrenal issues. Is that right?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So we went from 98 to 98.3?

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. So it’d be greater than .3 So if you’re 98-98.4 and we’re consistently seeing this back-and-forth oscillation, so we’re seeing 98, 98.4 or 97.9 and it’s constantly bouncing back and forth greater than .3 that could potentially mean an adrenal issue, right? And because it’s erratic, but at a good level of temperature 97.8 or higher. So we typically mean of an adrenal issue. If we see it low and erratic, let’s say, 97, 97.4, 96.9 to 97.5, then that would potentially be an adrenal and a thyroid issue. And again, temperatures aren’t perfect, right? Like when we assess thyroid, there’s three indicators we use. We use subjective, which in my opinion is the most important. How do you feel? Do you have a lot more hyper- or hypo- symptoms, right? Hyper- symptoms being anxiety, palpitations, mood issues, tired but wired.

Evan Brand: What about sweating? Increased sweating?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: – sweating, irritability, difficult sleeping. Where the hypo- symptoms, again, you can still have the mood stuff; you can still have the anxiety and mood stuff; you can still have some tired and wired – some tired and wired

feeling but typically more tired, though. And then the big thing is the cold hands, the cold feet, the thinning hair, the thinning eyebrows, the constipation. Those are gonna be the big differences. And obviously what trumps any of it, is an increase in TSH or thyroid antibodies are gonna be the biggest distinguishing factor, if it’s TPO or TSH receptor antibodies.

Evan Brand: And I just wanna mention one thing, too. In a lot of cases, the people we’re working with are gonna have both hypo- and hyperthyroid symptoms which can be equally confusing.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. Yup. Equally confusing. I mean we look at like the test that we give our patients to assess that uhm – right? The other big one’s losing weight. Losing weight uhm – even though you’re – or unintentionally gaining weight if you’re on the hypo- side or unintentionally losing weight if you’re hyper- side, right? That’s gonna be another, another big one. Elevated cholesterol – another, another big one. So those are a couple of the other ones that I mention there where the anxiety, the excessively sweating, uhm – again, hands shaking, difficulty sleeping, uhm – feeling more warm on the hyper- side. Those are gonna be the other big ones. And obviously having a family history. If your mom, or your aunt, or uncle, or your sibling has a thyroid issue, right? That’s gonna be a big – just, you know, big factor. One of the big questions I do in all my intakes is, are there celiac disease or any autoimmunity that runs in your family? Whether it’s thyroid, or Parkinson’s or MS, or ulcerative colitis, or Chron’s or anything autoimmune related, type I diabetes. And if there is, that really gets me to hone in there. But testing for autoimmunity, conventional medicine typically does it like ANA, or HLA-B27, or an RA Latex like – these are like the conventional, like broad markers for like scleroderma, or like – or celiac, right? Or see, rheumatoid arthritis, or lupus. They’re very non-specific a lot of times. And again uhm – and they typically are late stage markers. It takes a while for them to pop-up.  And again, a lot of people they may be asymptomatic and still have them. So it’s not a real motivating factor for a lot of people. Where some of the things we look at it with the thyroid antibodies, well even just a little bit above like the normal range. So like LabCorp, it’s 33 or 36 for the TPO. Where I think the thyro – the thyroglobulin antibody is anything greater than 1 is positive. So if we’re like at 1.5 or 2, you know – we will look at that and we’re gonna really push for autoimmune changes and autoimmune protocols. We see TPO going above 20, we’ll start to say, “Hey, you know, you wanna be careful with this.” And we’ll keep an eye on that. And then we have the – you know, people are on the thousands on the antibody levels. And we’ve made this change and I’ve seen 70, 80% drops. We take a patient from 2300 down to like 3 to 400, which is a massive drop.

Evan Brand: And so that’s diet, that’s lifestyle, removing infections, supporting adrenals. All those pieces, right?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Absolutely. And I got a question here on FacebookLive. I’ll try to connect it in here. And again, I apologize for Facebook Live listeners here. If you’re watching us there, check out the YouTube so you can actually see Evan. I’m gonna try to reiterate the questions so that you can hear it. Uhm – but that will be the best way to get the full conversation. Regarding uhm – question on Facebook Live, he’s talking about iron. Now, iron is really important coz it’s a really important building block for thyroid hormone. And we also need triiron for thyroid activation from T4 and T3, and we need it for just generally carrying oxygen to ourselves, which is really important for cellular metabolism. So if we have low iron levels that could be an issue. Now I did a full video this for people to get back to the iron video to get like the specifics on that. But again, typically we’ll recommend, like in my line, we use an Iron Supreme. It’s a Ferrous Bisglycinate. And we’ll do about 25 milligrams of iron, anywhere between 2 to 4 times a day to help support that. But also, we’ll figure out the root cause. Coz a lot of females, it’s excessive menstruation or hemorrhage. It could be vegetarian and vegan diets, or it could be the x factor of malabsorption from gut inflammation, to low stomach acid and enzymes and not being able to ionize minerals to an infection that’s stealing your minerals.

Evan Brand: Yeah. I’m so glad you brought that up because here I am thinking about myself, and the whole time, I had two parasite infections.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.

Evan Brand: I guarantee I have low stomach acid. I guarantee I had issues with iron absorption. And people, let’s say, even if you’re eating the best organic grass-fed beef, if you got an infection that is causing stress on the gut, therefore reducing stomach acid; therefore reducing the ability for you to cleave off those amino acids and iron from them – from the meat, you can still have trouble. And what about – what about ferritin, too? Because the iron storage protein, that’s what we’re gonna test. For many times, you’re gonna see, especially women have very, very low ferritin levels where – and you’ve got a woman with ferritin levels you know – in between say 20 and 40. You may be experiencing something like breathlessness, for example. You could definitely have hair loss falling out. Sometimes I’ll hear women say when their ferritin is about 20, let’s say their hair is falling out in clumps. So you wanna get ferritin, which is the iron storage protein. You gotta get that levels tested, too. And we like people to get up, you know, 60, 70, 80 with ferritin just to ensure that – that iron storage protein is actually working. Now – and this is something that I haven’t looked at very often, but I’m curious if you know Justin, if you’ve got low ferritin, are you always going to have low iron as well? Or is it possible that with low ferritin, your iron could still check out okay?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So with lower ferritin, iron serum can pop up, and it can pop up because – imagine like ferritin is like the gasoline that’s in the gas tank, right? And then think of like iron serum is like the iron is actually in the carbonator and then the piston’s ready to be – ready to be combusted, right? So one’s like – iron is like, what’s ready to go that’s in the actual engine and carbonator; and ferritin is like, what’s in the gas tank, right? So obviously the more important one is gonna be what’s in the gas tank coz that gives you the bigger picture, right? You don’t care, you know how much – how much engines – how much fuel’s in the carbonator. It will only take you maybe a couple of hundred meters, maybe a mile. I don’t know, I’m not a big car guy, so – But keep that in the back of your mind. Now the difference is your body has a little bit more of an interplay with other systems. So inflammation can increase iron serum. So that’s why we look at ferritin, but then we’ll also look at it with iron saturation, too. We see iron saturation low, below 25, when we see TIBC or UIBC on the higher side, that means your binding proteins are growing more and more fingers –  to have more iron. And if we see iron serum up, then we’ll be like, “hmm, maybe there’s some inflammation” We may wanna look at C-reactive protein, right? We may want to look at some of those inflammatory markers. Uhm – if we’re running a gut test, you may look at lactoferrin or calprotectin and see it – inflammation is occurring in the gut. So it really depends on what else is happening in the body. Does that make sense?

Evan Brand: Yeah. It does – it does. So, if you had to pick one or the other. Let’s say, somebody only gave you the option to run some of the specific iron markers or ferritin, what would you pick? For me, I think – I feel like I’ pick ferritin, if I could only pick one.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I mean, ferritin for sure. But an iron panel is like 30 bucks. There’s no reason –there’s no reason why anyone should nickel-and-dime on that because you don’t wanna compromise $30 getting a complete picture. So I think we run it. We keep doing it for 30 bucks and that’s everything.

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And that gives you the ferritin, the iron serum, and that gives you the UIBC, the TIBC, the iron stat. So then you have a real complete picture of what’s happening. And then you know, even just looking at someone’s CBC can be helpful coz you can look at red blood cells, hemoglobin, hematocrit and if that’s starting to go low, then we can look at MCH, MCB, MCHC, which is basically markers to see how big your red blood cells are, right? Smaller red blood cells typically mean iron issues; bigger red blood cells typically mean B12, folate and B6 issues.

Evan Brand: Wow. There’s another question. Actually there’s a comment up here by Tonya. She was talking about how she was able to eat gluten and dairy now after she had infections. And I guess she treated those, and now she’s able to eat gluten and dairy. I feel like that depends on the person. Me, personally even if I could get away with it, I still wouldn’t do it because you’re still gonna increase zonulin and leaky gut. Potentially set yourself up for future infections.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah. That’s the problem, right? Disaster doesn’t occur in –a day or a week, right? And we know that leaky gut can still happen even without the symptoms, right? We – there’s just been studies where they’ve given people pieces of gluten and they measured symptoms, they didn’t see necessarily an increase in symptoms or negative side-effects. But they saw this increase in zonulin and leaky gut because of it. Now we know that when that happens, you increase your risk of having other issues. So I know there are people right now, we get the same conversation. We’ll be talking to people that have been able to smoke cigarettes and not get lung cancer. Okay, great. Now, does that mean that you’re gonna go out and recommend smoking cigarettes to anyone? No. It’s still not gonna be beneficial. It’s still gonna be inflammatory. It still increases your risk. You don’t know who the people are that are gonna have the negative effects to begin with, right? It’s all like you have that looking glass that you can see in know. And also uh – you don’t know down the road when stress comes on and other things happen. Coz usually it’s not just one thing. It’s like, “great, now this person who’s talking – their stress bucket, they’re already filling it halfway.” So they’re going into with a half-full of stress bucket thinking that they’re okay, right? Alright. So, I got a half full of stress bucket. So now when other things come into their life, they’re gonna overflow faster.

Evan Brand: Agreed.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And then also – and also other people, that may overfill their stress bucket right away. And so that’s why you have to make sure that you know that some people may be the exception to the rule. They aren’t the rule. And this is where it’s –We have the advantage, Evan, because we see so many thousands of people that we can make correlations and can actually even see causation because we make changes and we see direct changes in the person’s physiology and their symptoms are getting better. So we can’t make – we can’t create all these protocols for the exception to the rule coz there are so many exceptions. There are people that smoke and don’t get cancer, alright? We know that. People that may consume gluten and may be okay, but the majority may have issues. Or they may set themselves up in increased stress bucket, right? Meaning increase their ability to handle less stress, so that when more stress comes on, boom, now they’re laid up.

Evan Brand: Exactly. Yeah. Tonya we had to put you on the chopping block there because for you commenting about saying gluten and dairy and you can get away with it now. You’re speaking for thousands of people that listen and do the same thing. And Justin and I will look at the symptoms of someone, and if there are still health complaints that haven’t been resolved, then let’s say we get the retest on GI-MAP stool test, and we look at antigliadin and antibodies, and I caught the lie detector test. I don’t know if you do, Justin. But it’s uh – when you get the antigliadin antibodies, it’s like, okay, one of three things happen. Either you’ve got gluten, you ate gluten, or you’ve got cross reactivity going on. And so, even if your symptoms are not supposedly there, your body is still fighting internally. There is still this internal battle going on, which is not what we want because then those antibodies can get confused and start attacking other tissues, which we don’t want.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And it’s tough because there are people that we see eat a diet that is you know – highly processed with a lot of carbs. And their blood sugar is relatively okay. And that maybe because they’re naturally more insulin sensitive, or they exercise more. And we see some people that eat the same diet, and they’re diabetic. So what do you do? Like I can’t sit there, and say, “well this person who eats this way isn’t diabetic” that means that diets is fine. No, it’s not. You have to look at the greater picture. You also have to look at what – does that diet now, is it nutrient dense? Is it anti-inflammatory? Is it low in toxins? And no, it’s not. But again, don’t get me wrong. Like dairies are open-ended topic, right? Ghee may be perfectly great. Butter maybe perfectly great.  Raw milk may be perfectly great for some people. But then we go to the pasteurized dairy, we go into more of the yogurts, which could be great, but it may not be. So do – we have to kind of uhm – can have a criteria for all those different compounds, right? Because some dairy may be okay, some may not be okay. And sometimes bread, too. Some people may do okay with bread over in Europe. Or they’ll do fine with sourdough bread coz it’s fermented and has less gluten in it versus, let’s say, wheat bread here that’s conventional. So you got to look at it, too. Some of those things may be okay and may have to be more specifically talked about.

Evan Brand: Yup. She commented back. She says, we’re missing the point. If parasite is the cause, you can go back to the way you were, prior to eating – oh the way you were prior, like eating gluten. We as people, ate gluten for a millennia and now it is the cause of all ills. I’ll comment on it first, and then I’ll let you say something about it. In the modern world, we have a lot more toxins. We have a lot more things that we’re up against, and so gluten, where maybe only would have change someone’s health 2 or 3% 5000 years ago, now,  has the ability to modify someone, tell 50 or 75, or even80% in some cases. We’ll see 80% of symptoms get better without it. So for me, comparing millennia to the modern world, we’ve never had a world like today. So it’s just not really a valid argument.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And the grains aren’t even like– If you look at the biblical grains, they talked about in the diet, and Dr. William Davies totally debunks this. If you look at the grains 2,000 years ago, reference in the bible, these are 12 chromosome uh – grain products versus the ones that they have right now, they’re hybridized and genetically modified, they’re up to 50 chromosomes. The gluten content is much higher and is also the extra stress of potential GMO nutrients, poor soils, as well as pesticide exposure. So it’s not quite the same way. Plus, people have to look at it from this perspective, if you drive around on your car, and you get a flat tire on your car, right? And you change the tire and you put the little – let’s forget that. Let’s just say you’re driving around on that flat tire for like a year, okay? So the flat tire is the cause of what’s happening here. But you drive around the flat tire for a year. That’s like ignoring the stressors of your health. It could be gluten. It could be parasite. But the longer you drive around on the flat tire, the more you front angles out of alignment; the more your suspension goes out of whack; the more your whole shock system in the car becomes stressed. And even if you decide, let’s say a year later, I’m gonna change that tire and put on a nice, fresh tire, which is like cutting out the gluten, managing stress, managing sleep, your car has been compromised where just changing the tire won’t fix it. You’re gonna have to go in for a full frontal alignment. You may have to get your tires rotated; you may need new shocks; your brake pads may have worn unevenly. There’s so many other issues that may happen with the car that where collateral damage from that flat tire being ignored. So just because you, let’s say, it was a parasite issue, and the parasites are now gone; or it’s a gluten issue, and the gluten’s now gone, doesn’t mean you now have nutritional deficiencies; doesn’t mean your enzymes and HCL are now effective; doesn’t mean your thyroid and your adrenals hormone system are now stressed; doesn’t mean your detoxification systems are now stressed, right? So this is what is happening. And other analogy is you’re in debt for 5 years. Great. You stop – you curtail your spending habits but you don’t get out of the hut – but you don’t get 100 grand out of debt by just changing your spending habits today. You need a bailout, or you need a lot more time just to start saving and get that money back up. Does that make sense, Evan?

Evan Brand: Yeah. Or the analogy of the spider web.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Evan Brand: Where there’s other pit of the web that’s affected, too. So for example, we can use me as an example. You look at me when uh – first time I came to your house. You’re like, “Evan, man, you look like you get a parasite.” You just- you just saw it. And I was like, “okay” It’s been a year plus since I’ve eradicated those infections, but I still am using enzymes and HCL because I was in such hypochloridic state that I still need to use supplemental HCL and supplemental enzymes. And I don’t really have an end date in mind where I’m not going to use enzymes because if I’m busy, or If I feel like I’m just not chewing my food as much as I should, to me, I like that nutritional insurance policy in place.

Uhm – there’s another question too that Chris asked earlier. He said, “not to be the dead horse, but isn’t there another marker to show autoimmunity of failsafe?” I guess since he’s asking because a lot of times –

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I already answered that one with the ANA and the conventional ones.

Evan Brand: Oh, okay.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And then the TPO. And also the gliadin antibodies be the stool testing we do. And then there’s uh – a test by Cyrex Lab that looks at leaky gut, which could give you a predisposing marker, where it looks at zonulin and occludin toxins which can open up the tight junctions. So that one will be another one when I look at.

Evan Brand: It’s pricey. Have you run that one often? The Cyrex, I mean, it’s like 600 bucks.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I’m not a big fan of that because it doesn’t tell me any of the cause. So if people have infections and their diet is not good, and they have – we’re seeing a low stomach acid and low enzyme environments, it’s not worth it. We just kinda work on treating the cause and then a lot of times, the clinical picture changes. Peoples bloating in gas and all these symptoms improved, which we know that means their digestion is getting better, their absorbing more nutrients. That means there has to be a leaky gut mechanism happening. I’m a bigger fan of looking at causal test versus the effect test. The effect tests are only good if you’re trying to convince someone or that people are skeptical. But once – people that are coming to see us are very intelligent because they’ve already educated themselves. They listen a lot to podcast. They read lots of blogs. They watch a lot of videos. They already get it. They don’t need to be convinced. They just wanna be fixed. So it’s a different mindset with those people.

Evan Brand: Agreed. Well said. And we don’t have people that need to be convinced they have leaky gut. Most of the time, they’ve already self-diagnosed themselves. In many cases, you don’t need to spend – I’d say99.9% of the cases, you don’t need to spend the money on a blood test that’s gonna say you have leaky gut. We could just list off symptoms – boom boom boom. Yeah, you probably got leaky gut. Cyrex, for their food sensitivity test, that is – that is cool one, but even then I feel like it’s a unnecessary in most cases because if you and I are gonna put somebody on like a AIP approach, let’s say thyroid disease did show up, some Hashimoto’s. We’ll have to go AIP and maybe we could try to reintroduce things. But they’re gonna be able to be a better barometer of Austin than the test in most cases. Like, “Oh when I added dark chocolate back in” or “when I added dairy back in” and this is what happen. I feel like that’s more valuable than a blood test.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.

Evan Brand: Totally.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We’ll do a full autoimmune elimination protocols and it’s gonna be very valuable for 90% of people. We’ll go an autoimmune diet, cutting out nuts, seeds, nightshade, eggs, obviously grains, legumes, dairy. And again, for people that are like the gluten fans that are on the message board here, they still aren’t nutrient dense food. If you look at the nutrients, if you look at the other compounds that aren’t gluten-related, right? Let’s look at the fact that some people are intolerant. They just can’t break it down because they’re missing the enzymes to do that. And that any time the food is not broken down, it can create stress in the body just like people that can’t break down lactose. They’re lactose intolerant and then they have diarrhea and bloating. So, some people just may be intolerant to breaking down the protein. Some people may be increasing inflammation because of the lectins and the phytic acid and then the oxalates that are just shutting mineral absorption. Other people may be having the autoimmune issue. So it’s still not a nutrient dense anti-inflammatory low toxin food. It’s not like there’s this missing nutrient that you can get out of gluten or out of these grains that you can’t get in some really awesome nutrient rich vegetables or healthy fruits with –or healthy starchy tubers. Does that make sense?

Evan Brand: Yeah. It does. Now – this is off-topic. But –

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s not a missing link. That’s my thing. If people had to say that – we – could show me a nutrient density chart and say, “But Dr. J, you get these nutrients, or the zinc and this is amazing or this, B vitamins”. I’d say, “Okay, but there’s not that evidence that it’s there.

Evan Brand: Right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Now a great – a great talk on this uhm – what’s his name, out of Harvard there – Matt Lalonde did a great talk at the Ancestral Health Symposium at 2012 on nutrient density. I highly recommend anyone watching that. But when you look at the nutrient density that you’re gonna get in meats, especially organ meats, it’s insane. It just destroys grains. And grains are the lowest out of all those foods.

Evan Brand:  Yeah. Now, we’re – we’re off-topic from the thyroid, but that’s fine because I love that’s it’s a dynamic conversation.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It connects in, right? Because-

Evan Brand: It does.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -nutrients help in thyroid conversion, they help with thyroid activation, they help with the adrenal, which helps the thyroid cells. Even though we’re off-topic, we’re gonna do our best to kind of meander our way back to the thyroid.

Evan Brand: Yeah. Now, what I was gonna say was a bit off- topic, which is – well all you’re saying is totally on topic but what I’m gonna say is it’s funny how even some of these professional healthcare companies are now designing supplements, which I’m not gonna even give them the credit of naming these products. But there are gluten supplements out there, where it’s like, “here, go eat gluten, but then here is this enzyme or here’s this XYZ supplement to where you can still try to eat gluten, but you just take these pills with them instead.” It’s like, that’s ridiculous. That’s like covering up the engine light in your car. The light’s still there, but here’s this magic tape that’s gonna hide it. I just don’t think supplements that enable you to eat gluten is a good idea.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Now, here’s the deal, right? If you have thyroid antibodies, if you know – if you have objective measures of autoimmune issues, or your heightenly celiac sensitive, another word is – almost like – almost like if you have gluten, like you’re laid up, like you’re just – you’re junk for days on it, I don’t ever recommend cheating with gluten. If you can manage, if you’re really healthy, and you don’t have severe thyroid or antibody markers popping up, then you could try going gluten-free you know, right? It maybe rice, or corn may be okay. If you do that, I typically recommend the enzymes, like the DPP-4 enzymes and we’ll take it with charcoal. But it’s a cheat, and we’re just trying to mitigate it. And we wouldn’t wanna ever do that as a staple to allow ourselves to eat gluten. Now, like myself, like maybe once year, like if I’m in Boston and I’m in the north end, I may have like a cannoli, but I found an alternative uh –modern bakery and get some gluten-free ones that are white flour-based. But if I go, I mean I’ll up the DPP-4 enzymes, increase the charcoal, and the vitamin C in the knack. And that will help me deal with it. Uhm – but again, that’s like – if you look at it, the 2000 meals I have a year, you know – maybe one or two have that in there, right? Not a lot. We’re talking .001% But people who are really, really sensitive or having gut over their health issues, initially you really wanna be puritanical. And then – I’ll kinda dovetail this with Johnny’s question here. Some of the testing that I will do to fine tune, if like patients are on the autoimmune, they kinda reintroduce things back in and they’re still having issues, and not quite sure what works, there will be some testing we’ll do like an MRT is a pretty good test. I’m liking the ELISA / ACT test as well coz it’s not just antibodies, it’s looking at various lymphocytes, too. And I do a combination of the ELISA and I’m – I’m kinda testing the MRT as well. And I’ll actually be doing some blind testing and sending some uh – different vials in with different people with actually my blood on with different names. I’m doing some blind testing on that. So hopefully I’ll do a video on that.

Evan Brand: You ought to try the, if you have it already, I believe it’s the Array 2. And there’s a couple of other Arrays form Cyrex, too. I’m a bigger fan of that than the MRT.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well the problem with Cyrex, though, it’s only looking at Ig or IgA – that’s the issue. So with the ELISA, it’s also looking at T-cell lymphocyte response and you’re not gonna get that picked up on Cyrex. That’s the big issue. And if you’re not exposed to gluten, let’s say we’re doing this test, and “yeah, I haven’t eaten gluten in a month or a couple of months” Well, if the immune system isn’t responding to it coz it’s not being exposed to it, it won’t come up in the test.

Evan Brand: Uhhh.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And people will be like, “Oh, look, I’m fine.” But may not be the case. So you have to look at it in a complete spectrum.

Evan Brand: That makes sense. So the ELISA / ACT.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh- hmm.

Evan Brand: And that’s blood.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s blood. Exactly.

Evan Brand: Cool. That sounds great. Well, I feel like we should probably wrap this up. I know this has been a lot of information uhm – if people are interested in your book, then they need to sign up for your email list. I mean – you’re so passionate about thyroid health, it’s definitely infectious. And do we have a date on that? Of this thyroid book? What’s up with that?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s done, man. I’m shooting it up to the editor. So we can buff it out and – and you know, I read all – every thyroid book on the market, I pretty much read. And my biggest issue is, you can summarize every thyroid book in like 5 pages.

Evan Brand: I know.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So I want a book that’s shorter. It’s more condensed. I want every page to be neat. I want every page to be __I want every page to have like action items. People can walk away and really improve their health and then throughout – in a standstill, they can reach out to people like myself and you, to kinda like get to the next level. So that’s where I’m at right now – to fine tune and boil it down. I want to touch just one question. Dale mentioned it earlier, he talked about mercury. And mercury is an important aspect coz mercury can pinch it and affect the thyroid. There’s this study showing that lowering mercury can decrease thyroid antibodies. I have one patient that had thyroglobulin antibodies over 2000 and we saw the antibodies drop below 100. So we saw a 99% drop in antibodies by removing mercury. So we’ll test that. We’ll do challenge test via urine and we’ll use various provocation agents like DMPS, which is 2, 3 dimer propanoic acid, or we’ll do uh – 2, 3 dimer succinic acid, which is DMSA. Or we can even do EDT as well. But I typically do the DMPS challenge and we’ll be able to provoke that and see what’s coming out from the mercury. That can be a big, big uh – kind of underlying revealer of another aspect of what could be driving an autoimmunity, which is the mercury. And again, I know you’ve done the shade testing which looks at urine unprovoked, hair, and blood. Not a big fan of hair and because they don’t tell you an active or chronic uhm – a chronic level. Doesn’t give you a tissue burden. And also, there’s study showing that people that push more mercury out on the hair actually have better detox pathways, and they measure people who push less mercury on the hair, and they actually found that they had more provoked mercury in the urine even though they push less out in the hair, partly because their detox pathway is impaired.

Evan Brand: Wow. I’m gonna try yours coz it sounds like it sounds like I could be getting some numbers that are not what they actually are. I wonder what other heavy metals are impacting this, too? I wonder if cadmium, for example, or aluminum is also gonna impact thyroid. It seems like all heavy metals potentially could. Or do you think it’s specific to mercury. Mercury’s gonna be the biggest?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well mercury is definitely gonna be the biggest coz it’s one of the second or third most toxic compounds in the world. It’s really bad. So that one. Obviously lead is gonna be really bad, too. Because lead and mercury interplay, right? If you look at the lethal dose of one – if you take uhm – the dose, you get hundred rats lined up, and you figure out, you keep on titrating the mercury dose up. So the first rat dies out of a hundred. So you titrate the mercury up, the first rat dies, right? That’s called the – the lethal dose of one, right? The 1, the 1% that kills – the dose of 1% of that kills. And you do that for mercury and lead, so you have the hundred rats, right? One dies of mercury, right? You increase the lead up here or one dies of lead. And you now combine the mercury and lead those together to all 100 rats, they all die. Did you get that?

Evan Brand: Yeah, I sure did.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So what they’re saying is even though it only kills one of here over a hundred and the lead over here kills one out of a hundred, but when you combine it together, and gives it all to 100, all of them die. Meaning that, these metals are synergistically connected and can have exponential effects when added. So if you see mercury and lead together, typically the compounds that we’re using, are gonna be specific to mercury and lead for sure. So you don’t have give a special one for mercury and a special one for lead, right? So you give it and it would globally affect mercury and lead and typically cadmium, as well. And we’d also wanna give extra binders. Crochet talks about this like MC but MCT like modified citrus pectin, MCP actually. Uh – we’d also give maybe charcoal or bentine clays. We’d also use things like chlorella, especially for mercury. And we’d also use things to support detoxification. So in my line, we use heavy metal clear and then we also use DMPS and we use a lot of sulfur amino acid support to run phase 2 detoxification, as well.

Evan Brand: And still eat your broccoli, folks.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, yeah. Your cruciferous are gonna be really important for your DIM and Indole-3-Carbinol which all help run phase 2 detoxification.

Evan Brand: Awesome.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Well, anything else here? Any other questions we wanted to run to? Uh – on the YouTube live here, anything else we can answer?

Evan Brand: I think that was everything.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think we hit it all up pretty well. Oh, I didn’t touch upon this. Let me just hit it real quick. Iodine. Iodine is a really important nutrient for the Iodination process to make thyroid hormone, right? If you look at the T, the T typically stands for- some people say thyroid or tyrosine. And then the 4 number is the Iodine. So you have the Iodination process and then you have the 5 prime, the iodinase that comes in there and it grabs and pulls off an iodine, and activates it and makes it T3. Well, that enzyme that activates thyroid hormone is selenium dependent and comes from the liver. So healthy liver function is really important. But having adequate iron uhm – adequate iron level as well is important, but having adequate iodine is also important. RDA is about 150 to 200 µg a day to at least prevent goiter. Now some people may need more than that. Now you have people like Brown Steen and other doctors that are going super, super high, 2550 mg a day. I’m very, very cautious of doing any high-dose iodine. I have seen too many patients uhm – like literally just lose their hair. Like just like gaps, like handfuls come out and their thyroid has gotten worst. Number one, like if we give iodine and they have autoimmunity, it’s typically months later after we’ve stabilized the gluten, stabilized the adrenals, supporting thyroid, supporting nutrients, supporting the gut, get their diet in shape, get their digestion better and then we’ll start very low and we’ll gradually work them up. But we’ll be checking in, we’ll be monitoring it and we’ll be doing very low doses and then gradually tapering it up or also making sure there’s enough selenium there, enough B vitamins, enough minerals, enough vitamin C. So we’ll make sure there’s a lot of other cofactors coz when you give iodine, it can spit out hydrogen peroxide, which can increase D cell lymphocyte infiltration into the thyroid. So it can exacerbate autoimmunity. So if we do it, we’re doing it responsible. We’re doing a lower RDA doses as a starting point and then gradually working our way up from there.

Evan Brand: So what about working with foods at the same time? So I’ve heard some people, anti-kelp people out there. And I don’t know why there’s some anti-kelp people.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, I think you just gotta be careful with kelp just because just coz where it’s coming from, the whole Fukushima disaster two years back.

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -radiation. So just gotta be careful. There are some really good sources out there. You gotta make sure it’s not coming from one of those places and number two, there’s a whole list of foods that you can give. Typically, like in my multi- there’s gonna be at least the RDA there, which is great.

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Egg yolks are gonna have some iodine as well. Uhm- obviously seaweeds have some good iodine sources. You just have to make sure that it’s not gonna be the Fukushima kind. I’ll get a list right here. I’ll read out a couple of foods that are really high in iodine in just one second.

Evan Brand: I’ve heard strawberries, too, which is interesting. And then I also wonder – it’s hard to get a composition sheet for a Himalayan pink salt. I wonder if you’re gonna get any iodine from pink salt or not?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I mean there’s some maybe some trace amounts there. I know iodized salt; 1 gram will have about 77 µg. There are some research showing that increased iodize salt consumption did increase autoimmunity. And it could just be that these are the general public. They’re just taking it, they already have a poor diet, and they don’t have the selenium, and the B’s, and the minerals, and the vitamin C in the background. And maybe that’s why that happened. So it’s hard to say. So there are studies on that showing there could be an issue. But things like cod, right? Things like shrimp, uh – things like turkey. Even some navy beans, even some tuna, even some eggs are gonna have some good iodine. I mean one egg is gonna have 12 to 15 µg iodine. So if you do 4 eggs a day, that’s about 60. You got a good multi- that will be 150. Uhm – you have some fish, you got some other food, now you’re like at 3, 400µg. Now you may need to go higher, but you had to work with physician or functional medicine practitioner to be monitoring the antibodies and make sure you have all ducks in a row first, before you go there.

Evan Brand: Yeah. I mean there’s people that will just start covering themselves in iodine. And so that could be a bad idea, you’re saying, coz you could actually increase antibodies, right?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally can increase antibodies. Uhm- you gotta be careful with that.

Evan Brand: I’m not – for some reason iodine, one of those things and kind of the eggs will call the natural health community that is – it’s been portrayed as very benign. And I remember even in some of the – the classes I was taking down in Austin, I remember a girl in class, she like paints everyday, she was painting her arm with iodine. And she was like, “it’s the greatest nutrient ever.” I was like, “Oh, my Lord. This is out of control.”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well painting on your skin for the most part, 80% of it evaporates.

Evan Brand: Uh-huh.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: The only time I recommend painting it on your skin is if you have fibrocystic breast disease uh – you have a lot of cyst and painful breast tissue. Painting it on the breast tissue can be great coz you’re driving the iodine right into the localized spot, where there’s the cyst, which could help. But outside of that, I mean, if you have –if you need iodine systemically for your body and for your thyroid function, you wanna take it in – in your body. And typically do a liquid potassium iodide.

Evan Brand: So she wasn’t – She probably wasn’t making herself toxic then. She was just turning herself uh – brown.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. 80% of it – you know, the iodine pass test, like the faster it evaporates, meaning the more your body absorb it; the slower it evaporates the more iodine you have. It’s very crude measurement, right? The better test is gonna be like Hakala or I think doctor stated, there’s an iodine loading test. I think it’s 25 to 50 mg of iodine then you test uhm – your urine and see how much GPL. So the goal is, if you pee 90% or more, it means your iodine levels are saturated; if you pee less than 90%, right? You pee less than 90% that means your body grab more of that iodine. So it’s – you’re essentially low. That’s the theory on that. 90% and more, you’re okay; less than 90, you’re low.

Evan Brand: Uhh. That’s interesting.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: But again, regarding iodine, you gotta do it responsible – responsibly. If you’re – think of iodine gasoline on the fire.

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Gasoline is not bad when you put it in your car. But if your car is on fire, and you start putting gasoline in your car, you can create problems, obviously, right? That’s what’s kinda happening in your thyroid. You wanna look at everything holistically. And you want the body system approach that Evan and I use, the key three, looking at the hormones, ATF( adrenals, thyroid, female hormones); ATM (adrenals, thyroid, male hormones), gut and infections, putting nutrients, digestion, better food, allergies, and then looking at detox and nutrients, as well.

Evan Brand: Yup. Well said. Go to to schedule consultation with Justin. Check out the thyroid videos series. He’s got hormone videos series, too. You’ve got the supplement line there. And then, you could check out my stuff, too, or you could just google either of us. Justin, or Dr. Dr. Justin Marchegiani. Evan Brand. You’ll find us both. And stay tune because this is really fun. And I don’t know about you, but I’m loving this. I think maybe 3 to 5 times more than just doing an off-air podcast coz people are asking questions. And it’s like shaping and structuring this.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: This little organic podcast ball.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I love it. We love the questions. We like just having this little kinda dialogue back and forth and “ooh, someone responds over here, let’s see what they said” and we kinda see if we can interject it into the conversation. That’s great. Totally m__we’re on the fly.

Evan Brand: Love it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Like impromptu, right? It’s like we’re on the stage, doing a little impromptu podcast.

Evan Brand: There’s no cuts; there’s no edits; there’s no –

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Overall man, this is it.

Evan Brand: This is – this is the real deal. This isn’t – there’s not a makeup person coming in and touching you up here. I mean this is the real deal.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I know. If you guys are liking this, we’re gonna do it a lot more. We just need thumbs up; we need likes; we need shares; show us the love. Go like Evan’s channel. Share the podcast. And then we’re gonna do more of this, and get everyone’s questions answered, and just provide more value. Like how could we provide more value to our listeners and improve your health.

Evan Brand: Yeah. And I think I mentioned it already. But if you wanna schedule a consult with Justin, just go to the website, you could schedule the consults there.  And same thing for me, and we’ll chat with you all next week. And let’s do something next week, maybe – maybe on like clinical success stories we’re having in the practice.

Evan Brand: Well that means they’re coming in –

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And just like, maybe go over our top 3 stories of the week. Coz we see – you know, so many patients. We can pick out 3 easily.

Evan Brand: Well, yeah. I thought of something, too. Uh- actually, a woman who was struggling with fertility is now pregnant. And I figured, getting her on and talking about her story with parasites and how her fertility was compromised due to the infections. Getting her on the air, maybe asking them– we have to make it fun for them, too. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: For them to take time out of it, get them to share their story and just kinda talk them through what we did. I think that’s- that’s the most remarkable part of all this, is getting to hear the feedback, which a lot of people, they’re not getting to hear the stories. And this is what keeps us motivated and keeps us going.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I love it, Evan. That sounds awesome, man. Well, let’s connect real soon, brother.

Evan Brand: Take care.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You take care. Bye now.

Evan Brand: Bye.


Torea Rodriguez – Toxins, infections and autoimmune disease – Podcast #112

Dr. Justin Marchegiani interviews autoimmune specialist, Torea Rodriguez, in this episode where they talk about autoimmune diseases and how these can be exacerbated by toxins and infections in the body. Find out how one thing leads to another and what types of lab tests are vital in helping to get to the root cause of issues. 

Torea Rodriguez Discover what supplements can aid in fighting autoimmune conditions. Learn how important it is to deal with stress or avoid it completely to be healthy along with making diet and lifestyle changes, as well as find out about healing pathways that worked for some people which may just work for you, too.

In this episode, topics include:

13:55   Infections

16:35   Stress

24:42   Biofilms

30:58   Supplements and Herbs

36:26   Toxins







Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Hey, there, it’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani. Welcome back to Beyond Wellness Radio. Today we have a functional medicine practitioner. Her name is Torea Rodriguez and she’s right out of Santa Cruz. Right, Torea?

Torea Rodriguez:  Yeah, Santa Cruz is it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Awesome! And you’re an autoimmune specialist, correct?

Torea Rodriguez:  I am. I do functional—err—functional medicine specializing in autoimmune. That’s how I got started. I got sick with autoimmune Hashimoto’s and it’s what I’m most comfortable with and it’s what I understand the most. So that’s what I focus on.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  What an epidemic autoimmune conditions are today, huh?

Torea Rodriguez:  Absolutely. I was reading in the Autoimmune Fix, Tom O’Bryan’s new book.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, uh-hmm.

Torea Rodriguez:  And he was explaining that, you know, most autoimmune diseases, what we know now is that it’s more of an autoimmune spectrum–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Torea Rodriguez:  As opposed to a specific disease, and so while there’s—I don’t know—there’s over 135 classified autoimmune diseases, it’s probably even more now and that all of those are just what’s known to us right now. Like there could be so many other ones and so it’s really the spectrum effect that happens, and yeah, it’s really prevalent.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, it’s really interesting because with autoimmune conditions. If you really look at what the conventional medical establishment has to offer, I mean, it’s not too much. I mean, they have your immunosuppressive medications, corticosteroids like prednisone. I mean, there’s not really even a diet shift or diet modality when it comes to autoimmune conditions, even though we know the research and the literature’s so, you know, rich with that type of information and also the idea of leaky gut really isn’t even talked about. What’s your take on the conventional medicine approach medicine offers—mainstream medicine for autoimmunity?

Torea Rodriguez:  I think that they are in a very unfortunate situation to be honest. They’re behind in terms of research. There’s not one doctor that I know, you tell me if I’m wrong–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Torea Rodriguez:  But there’s not one doctor that I know that has the time in between their 15-minute consults to also go and read the PubMed and the medical literature to stay up on what’s going on, so I think they’re in a very unfortunate situation. And then the other part about the traditional medical establishment is that they’re focused on special areas. So we’ve got the cardiologist for the heart health and we’ve got the endocrinologist for, you know, the endocrine system and the different hormone systems and all of those different things–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Torea Rodriguez:  And they’re looking at it from a very specific point of view from that organ if you will, when really autoimmunity needs to be that 30,000-ft view, big picture view because it’s the entire immune system. It’s the entire body that is having a problem. So yeah, I think that it’s just they’re in an unfortunate situation.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  100%. I mean, I see that every day. It’ s like unless you have a clinical framework in which you operate in, I mean, you could skim through articles but it may not mean much to you because where do you plug that clinical piece of information into how you treat patients because typically it’s 3- to 5-minute consult, right? With the pat–

Torea Rodriguez:  Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  With the patient. You have a prescription pad. For the most part you’re looking for a diagnostic code that justifies, you know, you to make money off the patient because they are—they are business and then typically that involves a prescription, right?

Torea Rodriguez:  Yes.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Or some type of procedure for the most part and that’s it. I mean, that’s—it’s really about managing that condition and the whole idea about addressing it or fixing a root causal issue really isn’t even there. I mean, it’s—it’s amazing that people can go to physicians where their goal really is just how can we prevent the symptoms from getting worse down the road versus let’s fix this.

Torea Rodriguez:  Yes.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  It—totally different mindset.

Torea Rodriguez: Yeah. Complete different mindset and that was my exact experience when I was diagnosed with Hashimoto’s back in 2009 and I started working with an endocrinologist because that’s where people go who have thyroid issues. They go to an endocrinologist and start working with them and you know, he prescribed me medication after medication and it’s not working and I can’t get my labs stable and it’s still not working, so we’d switch it or we’d double the dose or, you know, we kinda got to a point where I challenged him because at that the time I needed to pass an aviation medical and I challenged him and I’m like, “Look, I need to pass this exam in a month. We’ve got a month. What do you got for me? Like we gotta do this, otherwise I have to stop flying for a living.” And he just kind of put his hands up and he was kinda like, “Well, you know, the next thing I know to do is to radiate the thyroid and cut out the rest of the tissue.” And I was just like, “Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Brakes on full.” Like that’s not the path that I wanna go down.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Torea Rodriguez: And that was the real foray for me to start looking into functional medicine and to start looking at alternative solutions because I knew that it—there was something else going on. It wasn’t just the thyroid. I mean, there’s countless people out there with thyroid issues and they feel fine. So what is going on? And I wanted different answers.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  That’s great. This is a great segway into kind of let the listeners know a little bit more about you. And most people, they kinda walk that, most practitioners are physicians—they walk the journey of the wounded healer. Right? They have some type of health–

Torea Rodriguez:  Oh, yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Ailment themselves, they bump their head against a wall a few times—that wall being conventional medicine, and then was able to find a path that actually worked that—that really was focused on root causal health information.

Torea Rodriguez:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So why don’t you share your story—I know you mentioned you were a pilot. I think you also have a biochemistry background, right?

Torea Rodriguez:  Yeah. Yeah, my undergrad degree is in Biochemistry–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Oh, great.

Torea Rodriguez:  And you know—and I worked in the technology industry so I’ve kinda bounced around and cruised a little, but at the time I was a professional pilot, I wasn’t feeling good. I mean, I knew something was wrong and when it came time to really decide, “Am I gonna go under the knife to try and fix this? Or am I gonna try and find alternative solutions?” I really knew in my heart of hearts that I needed to find an alternative solution.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  By under the knife, you mean getting your thyroid removed, right?

Torea Rodriguez: Yeah. I mean–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Torea Rodriguez:  He wanted to give me a radiated thy–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Torea Rodriguez:  Iodine.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yup.

Torea Rodriguez:  And then cut out the rest of the tissue and I did not wanna have surgery to be honest.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So–

Torea Rodriguez: I just did not.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm. So it sounds like you were diagnosed with Graves’? Is that what happened?

Torea Rodriguez:  No.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Or was it something else?

Torea Rodriguez:  Hashimoto’s.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So this was Hashi—yeah.

Torea Rodriguez:  This was Hashimoto’s.  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Okay.

Torea Rodriguez: And most, for our listeners who don’t know, usually you take out the thyroid when it’s Graves’ which is the opposite, the hyperthyroid situation, and he just didn’t—he didn’t know where else to turn. These were the tools that he had and that’s why–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Torea Rodriguez:  I had so much compassion for them. It’s that they—they have the tools that are in their toolbox and they’re not necessarily applicable to the types of diseases that we are seeing right now.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  It totally makes sense and that makes sense, too, because Hashimoto’s in the early stages can seem like Graves’ because the antibodies are different. They’re not the same kind of antibodies once thyroid stimulating immunoglobulin and TA—TSH receptor antibodies, the one for Hashi’s is TPO and thyroglobulin. So different effect–

Torea Rodriguez:  Correct.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  But in the early—in the early inflammation response, thyroid hormone spills out and can create that hyper kinda symptoms, so that makes sense.

Torea Rodriguez:  Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So I started searching for anybody that knew anything about thyroid and natural healing and I had stumbled across Chris Kresser’s writings–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Mmm, yup.

Torea Rodriguez:  And this was back early in the day when he was just writing about stuff and he said something that really clicked with me–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Torea Rodriguez:  Which was that we’re dealing with autoimmunity and we’re dealing with a disease of the immune system.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Torea Rodriguez:  Not a disease of the thyroid, not a disease of–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Torea Rodriguez:  The myelin sheath of your nerves. It’s a disease of the immune system and that we need to really focus on the immune system itself, and that just lit a lightbulb. It was an epiphany moment. It’s like, “Of course! That makes total sense.” So let’s go down that path. So I pretty much didn’t know where he was, didn’t care, was gonna get on any plane to go see him, begged myself into his clinic and he took me on as a client, and that’s when I really started to understand the multiple layers that had come into play to cause me to get sick and the work that I needed to do to start healing. Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Very cool. So with your working with Chris, I mean, he’s kind of a—a Paleo template guy. I’m a big fan of a Paleo template, right? Where we kinda can adjust the macronutrients and—and dial things in according to what works best for you, the patient. Just curious, if you could lay out just you and your experience as the patient, what worked best for you. What are those top 3 things that really were game changers in your case?

Torea Rodriguez:  I think the very first game changer was taking a different perspective on my diet. I had always felt that I was healthy and that I was eating very healthfully and to stay healthy on the road I was keeping to a vegetarian diet and with a lot of healthy whole grains, right?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Torea Rodriguez:  Right? And so taking a different perspective and really taking a look at what it was that I was eating and what more importantly what I was missing in the diet. There were a lot of nutrients in my diet that were missing from that and so switching to a whole food Paleo type template was exactly what my body needed at the time and I would say that that in itself gave me a huge boost and huge stair step of healing right away.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So you were eating a lot of grains back then or were you eating any meat as well?

Torea Rodriguez:  I was not.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Wow.

Torea Rodriguez:  I was trying to stay healthy on the road.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Wow.

Torea Rodriguez:  So I was staying vegetarian because of course, we were eating out all the time.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Got it.

Torea Rodriguez:  So yeah, so I was just like, “Oh, I’ll just stay vegetarian. That’ll keep me healthy.” And then you know, in hindsight, looking back the other time I experimented with being vegetarian was in college and I got very, very sick in college. And I know now–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Mmm.

Torea Rodriguez:  That for me and my body type, I—I need to include animal proteins in there. That’s the only way I feel really great. So yeah, so I would say food was the other thing and then rest. Not really rest—how should I say this? I had to take a very serious look at my Type A hyper-overachiever lifestyle.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right, right.

Torea Rodriguez:  And that was really, really hard to do as a pilot. You are used to achieving every 6 months and passing check rides and switching to the next airplane and all of those things, and that was something that was really driving my nervous system into sympathetic fight or flight all the time.  And I had pretty much activated it all the time and I really had to take a serious look at that. So that was one of the other things that was really, really key in healing but expressly difficult to adjust to.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So you sound like you had some adrenal dysfunction there, too?

Torea Rodriguez:  Oh, yeah. They were–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Torea Rodriguez:  Pretty much—the way Chris put it—and I don’t know if he was trying to scare me or not, but he basically said that you are one step away from Addison’s disease. You need to do something different.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And were those initial tests that you ran for adrenals, were those on—on the BioHealth 201 adrenal panel?

Torea Rodriguez:  Correct.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Okay, cool.

Torea Rodriguez:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Do you remember what your total–

Torea Rodriguez:  That was my first panel.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Cortisol was?

Torea Rodriguez:  I think it was like 12.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Wow, that’s so low!

Torea Rodriguez:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  How about your DHEA?

Torea Rodriguez:  I don’t even remember. I’d have to go take a look. But yeah, I mean, it was pretty much tapped out. I mean, I was—I was tapped out. This was—I was sleeping 14 hours a night and feeling like I was–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Wow.

Torea Rodriguez:  Hit by a Mack truck the next morning. Like I was not feeling rested ever.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And so recapping, you were eating a vegetarian diet. So I typically hear that. I think low protein, I think ex—probably excessive carbohydrate, probably lots of anti-nutrients.

Torea Rodriguez:  Oh, it was all carbohydrate. Because in addition to flying–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.

Torea Rodriguez:  The other thing that I loved to do was long distance cycling.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Running–oh yeah, there you go. So that your–

Torea Rodriguez: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  You’re carb-loading, right?

Torea Rodriguez:  Pretty much sugar all day long, every day.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  How about fat consumption? Were you doing pretty low fat consumption? Were you doing a lot of nuts back then?

Torea Rodriguez:  Probably.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Torea Rodriguez:  Yeah, nuts and you know, a little bit of olive oil here and there–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Torea Rodriguez:  But butter wasn’t in the profile at all. You know, so I was very fatphobic at that point.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So we had blood sugar issues, we had nutrient density issues, you probably had a lot of anti-nutrient issues, adrenal dysfunction–

Torea Rodriguez:  Yes.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And then autoimmunity which probably was exacerbated by all of the—the grains that you were consuming, too.

Torea Rodriguez:  Oh, yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Wow.

Torea Rodriguez:  Most definitely, and there was pretty extreme iron anemia–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Oh, wow.

Torea Rodriguez: That we discovered and which explained a lot of the issues that I was having. I was getting hypoxic at very low altitudes at work and hypoxy is the term for when you are lacking oxygen at altitude and usually you’ll feel hypoxic anywhere between 8,000 and 12,000 feet. Everybody’s a little bit different.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Torea Rodriguez:  But I was feeling very hypoxic at 5,000.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Wow.

Torea Rodriguez:  And the cabins are pressurized at 8,000 so I was even more fatigued at the end of my shift because I was constantly “at altitude” all day long and getting really sick from it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And so you were an airline–

Torea Rodriguez:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Pilot where you like flying major airlines or–

Torea Rodriguez:  No, I flew charter and–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Charter.

Torea Rodriguez:  Corporate aviation. Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Got it. Now I’ve heard that—I’m not sure if this is true—but I’ve heard that pilots aren’t able to fly while consuming aspartame, is that true?

Torea Rodriguez:  I would have to double check what the regulations are with the FAA–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Torea Rodriguez:  But at the time when I was flying–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Torea Rodriguez: Aspartame was fine.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  It was fine. Okay, I wondered if that’s something new.

Torea Rodriguez:  Yeah, it wasn’t a regulated substance, but I’d have to check. That’s curious.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Okay, alright, very cool.  And then let’s dive in. There’s one piece of your autoimmune puzzle that I think may have been an issue but you didn’t allude to it yet. You didn’t mention anything about infections. Were infections a piece of the puzzle for you getting your thyroid and your autoimmune situation under control?

Torea Rodriguez:  They were definitely a piece of the puzzle but they came later.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Ahh.

Torea Rodriguez:  Like we really started with diet, lifestyle stuff first.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah. Yeah.

Torea Rodriguez:  Started focusing on healing the gut a little bit–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Torea Rodriguez:  And then also the adrenals, like I was just–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Torea Rodriguez:  So tapped out, right? Getting some–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Totally.

Torea Rodriguez:  Support there, but later on we started to find the GI pathogens for sure and I tested positive for H. pylori and then later on tested positive for a—another one that I can’t even remember the name of it and you know, as we started to treat those and heal those, you know, we’ve kinda talked about lingering symptoms like what’s left, what else is going on?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Torea Rodriguez: You know, and—and sure enough we found Giardia but it took–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Wow!

Torea Rodriguez:  A number of tests and a number of passes at that for it to finally reveal itself and that Giardia had gotten—I’ve had it for so long that it had left the intestinal tract and actually had gone into the gallbladder.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yup.

Torea Rodriguez:  And so I had all these crazy gallbladder attacks that I couldn’t explain and ultrasounds to make sure it’s not stones, like it was kind of a little bit of a crazy path but we finally found the Giardia and treated myself for Giardia and that was another huge stair step is to finally get rid of that pathogen.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So 3 major parasitic infections—H. pylori, something in between was a Blasto? Blastocystis hominis or Crypto?

Torea Rodriguez:  No, it wasn’t Blasto. My husband’s had Blasto. It was Crypto.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Crypto. Okay.

Torea Rodriguez:  Yup, yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Wow. That’s—that is nasty. Yeah, that’s a Blasty-Cryp—I call that the Three Amigos by the way.

Torea Rodriguez:  Yeah, definitely felt like the Three Amigos were having a party, that’s for sure.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right? Now when you went to go attack the Giardia, did you have to do a gallbladder flush to get the gall—to get the Giardia flushed out?

Torea Rodriguez:  I didn’t. Actually–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Okay.

Torea Rodriguez:  I was pretty lucky with the anti–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Torea Rodriguez: Pathogens that we used.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Okay.

Torea Rodriguez:  Actually it turned out to be fine. But yeah–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Got it. So we have adrenal issues and that—you know, in your situation, it’s kinda unique in how it unfolds and what stressors happen in your life but how things break down is pretty consistent, right? There’s some level of–

Torea Rodriguez:  Oh, yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Dietary stress and that’s unique for person, right?

Torea Rodriguez:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Whether it’s vegetarian side, whether it’s the standard American diet and lots of conventional meat and grains. You have the adrenal stressors, right? You have imbalanced amount of macronutrients, so I call that blood sugar stressors. You have infections and then you had the autoimmune—the whole immune system all revved up–

Torea Rodriguez:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Because of everything else, because all of the—the things I already mentioned.  I see that

Torea Rodriguez:  Yeah and–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I see that with most patients.

Torea Rodriguez:  There’s—there’s another thing in there that kinda added to the whole perfect storm which is what I now call acute stress events.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Mmm.

Torea Rodriguez:  There was a period of time between 2008 and 2009 when I was being diagnosed where I had lost a parent suddenly.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Wow.

Torea Rodriguez:  I had gotten into a cycling accident and pretty severe physical injuries and I had an emergency at altitude and was the only pilot on board to deal with that emergency, so there was a huge amount adrenalin that got pumped out that day when I was dealing with that—that actual emergency, and those 3 things all happened within months of each other.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow.

Torea Rodriguez: And that pretty much a perfect storm on the stress side of things to completely cause additional leaky gut and cause additional food sensitivities and everything else that just kinda added to the whole picture.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, you really—you really hit a point there that I wanna emphasize. You talked about the leaky gut and the food sensitivities and I think a lot of people at home, they—they hear stress but they don’t really think about how stress really impacts our digestion or impacts our gut lining.

Torea Rodriguez:  Oh, yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Because the biggest thing that really revs up this autoimmune cycle is stress and what it does to the gut lining and then what that does to undigested food particles and then what that does to the immune system as they slip through the tight junctions to get into the bloodstream.

Torea Rodriguez:  Yeah, absolutely. And you know people hear stress, stress, stress, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Torea Rodriguez: I get it, but what they don’t understand is that in the lab and I think this was Dr. Fasano’s work–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Torea Rodriguez:  Is that in the lab one of the ways that they would introduce leaky gut is hitting these poor rats over the head and causing head trauma.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Mmm.

Torea Rodriguez:  And that’s a physical injury that you know, resulted in leaky gut. So when we have a lot of stress whether it’s physical injury or not, that will cause leaky gut.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And is that mechanism through the head trauma is after decreased activation of the—the vagal nerve?

Torea Rodriguez: That’s my guess.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, that’s what I think, too.

Torea Rodriguez:  That is definitely my guess. Yeah, vagal nerve is so huge in recovery and, you know, stimulating the parasympathetic side of the immune system and nervous system.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, I was reading an interesting study just last week on petting animals and it stimulating the vagal nerve.

Torea Rodriguez:  Really? I definitely need a dog again.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So I—you think—I know. I practice next to my dog, Butter, all day so I, you know, pet her. I’m like, “Yeah, I’m getting my vagus nerve going.” You know, I’m—I’m practicing what I preach here.

Torea Rodriguez:  Excellent.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So nice little fun fact there.

Torea Rodriguez:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Very cool.

Torea Rodriguez:  Yeah, I look for all sorts of different ways to simulate vagus nerve when trying to heal autoimmunity because so many of us get kinda stuck in the cycle of the sympathetic side of the nervous system and it’s very hard to start to retrain the body to start activating the parasympathetic side. So I’m always looking for tips like that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, that’s good. And now because you’ve had this history you’ve been able to effectively treat it, which is great, what are you seeing in your patients? Are you seeing similar type of events kind of cascading or what kind of infections are you seeing, too?

Torea Rodriguez:  Yeah, so lots of GI pathogens.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Torea Rodriguez:  I’ve seen the gamut of them. I’m also seeing patients who are attributing some of their getting sick like how I had that perfect storm of stress events to receiving tetanus vac—vaccination—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Torea Rodriguez:  Vaccines, right?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yup.

Torea Rodriguez:  Vaccinations.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yup.

Torea Rodriguez:  Or you know, some other kind of trauma.  Usually it’s a trauma that can start the whole ball of wax to unravel, and so I see that quite a bit, so I pretty much apply the same technique is to let’s get an understanding of what’s going on. Let’s look for some of those co-infections and start dealing with those, so that I pretty much equate it to the immune system as pretty much over—overloaded at this point. It can’t really deal with these things effectively. So we have to help it to get rid of those things so it can become stronger to be able to keep this things at bay. So it’s, yeah–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, I totally see that as well, where like the immune system is compromised. It can’t quite get rid of the infection on its own and it needs just a little bit more help with whether a specific protocol that you create to help kind of knock that infection out, right?

Torea Rodriguez:  Yup, absolutely.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And then you went—you said something about five minutes ago. I wanna kinda come back to it because I think, just through the lens of the patient right now, from a patient talking to you. The biggest thing I see patients that have chronic health issues is when they have multiple infections layered up and they—they get their stool test back or their infectious panel back and they find there is one or two infections. We treat those infections. They come back negative, but a new one comes back. And that’s a really frustrating thing that I let my patients know that there is probably a 20% chance that may happen. And we call it you know, I refer to it as crypt hyperplasia where the infection burrows deeper into the gut lining and it makes its way out as we kinda clean through all the crud if you will. What’s your take on it? How do you explain that or educate your patients about that?

Torea Rodriguez: There’s a couple different analogies that I use for that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Torea Rodriguez:  One is that, you know, we are basically going after the bad guys that we see in the beginning of the forest–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Torea Rodriguez:  But not the ones that are deeper in.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Deeper in, right?

Torea Rodriguez:  And so you have to kinda keep retesting for that and then of course, I’ll get a little technical with them and talk to them about biofilms and how biofilms –

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Torea Rodriguez:  Can get you know, resistant to things like oil of oregano and you know, that kind of thing, so you kind of have–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Torea Rodriguez:  To play around with some of these agents that we use to get rid of the stuff to actually get after it, and then you know, the other part, too, is that if—if they’ve done a lot of antibiotics, traditional antibiotics, or they’ve done a lot of use of these herbal antibiotics, often times what doesn’t come into play is the re-population of the gut and so basically we leave this like five-star resort open with neon signs that says, “Bad guys, move in here.”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Torea Rodriguez:  And then they’re easy to pick up on something else. So sometimes they pick up something else–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Torea Rodriguez:  Through their travels or whatever but sometimes it’s just really just uncovering it and exploring deeper in that forest.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And this is helpful because I think a lot of people that expect you know, let’s say they have a couple of infections, they expect that once those infections are gone that they’re gonna feel 100% better. And in your situation what percent better were you after those two infections, the H. pylori and the Crypto?

Torea Rodriguez:  At that point, you know we had done a lot of the diet-lifestyle stuff–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Torea Rodriguez:  So I would say 60% but getting rid of those only got me about another 10%.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And then so it was the last one?

Torea Rodriguez:  Then it wasn’t until–yeah, it wasn’t until we found the—the Giardia–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yup.

Torea Rodriguez:  And start treating the Giardia that things really started to fall into place and then looking at my final lingering symptoms, those are all Epstein-Barr related.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Torea Rodriguez:  And so now that’s my focus personally and like I still work on the stuff.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Torea Rodriguez:  I’ve been working on this since 2009, you know, so it’s—some of my clients are like, “When does it ever stop?” And it could stop now but I refuse to accept mediocrity and you know, I wanna feel good all the time so I will always pursue it, but some people choose to stop when they feel 80-90% better.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right and I guess it depends, right? Because everyone, you know, when do you stop eating healthy? When do you stop exercising? When do you stop going—getting good sleep, right? It just—people, it’s very easy to get addicted to feeling great and then the potential of “Can I feel 5% better this year? What do you think? Is it possible?”

Torea Rodriguez:  Exactly.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So it can gets exciting, right?

Torea Rodriguez:  It totally gets exciting and you know, the thing is that that things will change. You’ll start to feel better and then you’ll decide that you wanna go travel to Nicaragua and you get a really nasty bout–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Torea Rodriguez:  Of food poisoning. Well, guess what?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Torea Rodriguez:  You probably just picked up something that you should test for and see if it’s still hanging out in your gut after you get back. So, I mean, we pick up stuff like this all the time.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And what are you doing right now for biofilms? You brought that up earlier with antibiotic resistance, people taking in the past. What are you doing for that with your patients?

Torea Rodriguez:  Biofilms, I mean, you can use several different agents–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Torea Rodriguez:  I like to use interface. There’s a couple other things–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Torea Rodriguez:  That I’ve used in the past. Not BiotaGen, that is a prebiotic powder.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -Biotic, yeah.

Torea Rodriguez:  It’s the Bio-Botanical Industries, do you know which one I’m talking about?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Oh, there’s a couple out there–

Torea Rodriguez:  Oh, shoot.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  The big ones that I know for my biofilms are—are ginger–

Torea Rodriguez:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Silver and cat’s claw or Samento. Those are my–

Torea Rodriguez:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  My favorites to use for the biofilms. Ginger tea is like mandatory for all patients to sip on, you know, for the first few weeks because ginger—there’s a lot of studies on it on helping biofilm reduction.

Torea Rodriguez:  Oh, that’s fantastic! Yeah. Biocidin–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Oh, Biocidin.

Torea Rodriguez:  It’s the other one that I’ve used.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yup.

Torea Rodriguez:  Yup. And that seems to do a really good job with people who have been on the Interface for too long and then all of a sudden you’ve got something that’s resistant to that—but ginger is new for me. That’s really fascinating. I’d love to see those papers.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah. I mean, you just go ginger and biofilms. There is just dozens of them.

Torea Rodriguez:  Excellent.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  There—there was one cool paper where it showed like a Petri dish of like all this resistant bacteria or biofilms, and then like they introduced a small bit of ginger to it and it was like gone. So a big fan of juicing–

Torea Rodriguez:  Fantastic.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I’m a big fan of juicing it though, like fresh juiced ginger, like just kinda throw it in your Vitamix or Magic Bullet if you don’t like the pulp–

Torea Rodriguez:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Which I don’t like the pulp. I strain it through a French press, and–

Torea Rodriguez:  Okay.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  There you go. Add a teaspoon of honey especially if you don’t have any fungal issues, you could do it. A quarter of a lime and you’re good to go, and it really helps reduce those biofilms.

Torea Rodriguez:  Yeah, ginger is amazing stuff because not only do you have biofilm disruptor, but you’ve got some really great probiotics that are on the ginger root itself.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Torea Rodriguez:  So yeah, pretty amazing stuff. I like it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Also anti-inflammatory and anticoagulants. So keeps the crud that gets you know–

Torea Rodriguez:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Stuck or sludgy moving along, right?

Torea Rodriguez:  Yup. Absolutely.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Cool. So with the patient’s right now, would you say the most common autoimmune condition you’re seeing is Hashimoto’s or thyroid autoimmune disease?

Torea Rodriguez:  You know, honestly I don’t see a lot of Hashimoto’s clients–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Mmm.

Torea Rodriguez:  I just see autoimmune diseases.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  In general.

Torea Rodriguez:  They’re all over the place. Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  What—what are the big five for you?

Torea Rodriguez:  Rheumatoid arthritis.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yup.

Torea Rodriguez:  Hashimoto’s is definitely in there.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Torea Rodriguez:  But then I’ve gotten some really strange ones that, you know, that are skin-related.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yup, scleroderma or–

Torea Rodriguez:  Yeah, that sclerodermas and those kinds of things.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Psoriasis.

Torea Rodriguez:  Yup, psoriasis for sure. Those are the big majors really.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Torea Rodriguez:  I don’t see a lot of people with MS and I don’t see a lot of people with Crohn’s. I thought I would. I had one client with Crohn’s, but that was it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Are you seeing a lot of multi-glandular autoimmune syndromes like more than one autoimmune condition with the same patient?

Torea Rodriguez:  Almost everybody–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Torea Rodriguez:  I’ve known that’s been diagnosed with our immune has been diagnosed with two if not more.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Torea Rodriguez:  I—I’ve two that I know about. I’ve had psoriasis in the past–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yup.

Torea Rodriguez:  That’s been healed and I know that’s autoimmune. It was never diagnosed by a medical professional but I also have Raynaud’s in the hands–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yup.

Torea Rodriguez:  That’s fun. Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I see that exact same pattern. Raynaud’s, Hashi’s, and some type of either eczema or psoriatic skin condition is like super common.

Torea Rodriguez:  Yeah, yeah, very common for them to go together.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And for listeners, Raynaud’s is just a condition where you get these vasospasms in the—typically in the extremity tips that can cut off blood flow in circulation and create that cold kind of feeling.

Torea Rodriguez:  Yeah, it’s pretty freaky when you look at your hands and your entire fingers are white.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Torea Rodriguez:  From the base of the fingers to the tips. The first day that happened to me I kinda freaked out. I was on the bike and couldn’t figure out how to get the blood flowing in the fingers again. It was kind of scary.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, I totally hear you. And then talk about the Epstein-Barr in the—I wanna say mono or chronic fatigue that tends to happen from that. How are you diagnosing? What are you looking on lab work to pick up EBV?

Torea Rodriguez:  So I’m a big proponent of the Immunoscience’s panel. They’ve got a viral panel and if you want we can link to it in the show notes.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Torea Rodriguez:  But they’ve got a really great comprehensive viral panel that you can run or you can ask your doctor to run the markers for you if you want, which will take a look at whether or not you’ve got past exposure or current exposure. Most people who are dealing with chronic EBV have had a past exposure, and my theory is that our immune system is just not as strong as keeping it at bay as somebody else. I mean EBV is so common that we think that nearly 95 to 98% of the population has been—been exposed. It’s just most of them can keep it at bay. So a lot of those types of symptoms are fatigue, feeling like you’re getting the flu but never really coming down with the flu, light sensitivity in the eyes, tinnitus in the ears, pain in the lymph nodes underneath the ears, those kinds of things, maybe a mild fever but hardly ever fever associated with it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, that is super common and the three major things I looked that—I just pulled up the Immunoscience panel and that’s exactly what I run, Viral Capsid Antigen, Nuclear Antigen and Early Antigen.

Torea Rodriguez:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  IgM and IgGs. Any IgM, that’s a sign of more of an acute or—potential active or reactive infection. And any IgG for the Early Antigen–

Torea Rodriguez:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Is a sign of a potential reactivation. Is that kind of what you go by, too?

Torea Rodriguez:  Exactly. Yeah and you know, when I was first starting to look at this at myself I did this with my naturopathic doctor and we ran the whole lab, and while I didn’t have any IgM for active–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Torea Rodriguez:  Infection, I have had in her opinion the highest titer she has ever seen for IgGs so I—I got the Gold Star award for that. So it definitely tells me that that’s something that my body has been dealing with for a very long time.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Absolutely and what are you doing right now from a supplement or herbal standpoint with Epstein-Barr?

Torea Rodriguez:  Yeah, so I am making sure that I stay as far away from sugar as I–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Torea Rodriguez:  Possibly can because sugar will break down the L-lysine in the body and L-lysine–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Torea Rodriguez:  Is the amino acid that we need to keep viruses at bay–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yup.

Torea Rodriguez:  At the most, which ironically now that I know that information is why after I eat a bunch of sugar I feel like crap for three days afterwards.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.

Torea Rodriguez:  And I take L-lysine as a supplement. I’ve also been experimenting on myself doing an n=1 experiment with using supplemental BHT.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Torea Rodriguez:  And some people don’t like that approach. Some people love that approach. And that seems to be helping with the constant symptoms that I was having, and not as often anymore. Whether or not it is the BHT or the L-lysine, I don’t know because I’m testing two variables are once. But those are the two things that I’ve been doing and then just making sure that I don’t have a lot of stress, because stress will set me back faster than anything,

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Love how foundational things are right at the forefront. That’s I think so important. I think a lot of people miss that.

Torea Rodrigue:  I think—I think we want to throw them in the back corner to be honest –

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Torea Rodriguez:  Right? It’s like we want the easy button sometimes, and sometimes the easy button is just making sure that you’re consistent with the foundations.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I see so many people that come in or have seen me before other doctors and they come in, we have a whole bunch of infections, and the doctors they previously were with just threw a whole bunch of things at them–

Torea Rodriguez:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Didn’t really get lifestyle changes dialed in. Didn’t really get the diet. Didn’t really get blood sugar. Didn’t really get the adrenals or any thyroid or hormone stuff. And they just went after the infections right away and they just shut down.

Torea Rodriguez:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And I think echoing on what you said the lifestyle piece and the diet piece, and even the hormonal—hormone piece before that is so important as a foundation so you can go after these infections and not create a healing crisis.

Torea Rodriguez:  Oh, absolutely. Like I see this quite often. Of course, everybody wants to end the pain, like I get it. I totally get it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Torea Rodriguez:  And you know, we want those results right away but I have seen clients do the same approach with other practitioners and you know, they get thrown a whole bunch of antimicrobials for example. Yeah, that practitioner didn’t look at the liver function and didn’t realize that there are liver wasn’t ready to process all those toxins that are created when we go after the microbes.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yup.

Torea Rodriguez:  And yeah, and they completely shut down so that’s why I do a bunch of labs upfront so that I can see like what’s the status of the liver, what’s the status of the neurotransmitters, like let’s look everywhere and then figure out a strategy, and it does take time for sure.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And you mentioned earlier, the butylated hydroxytoluene, the BHT.

Torea Rodriguez:  Yes.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Can you talk more about that?

Torea Rodriguez:  So yeah, so butylated hydroxytoluene which is a mouthful–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yup.

Torea Rodriguez:  BHT—that is the same BHT that used to be in breakfast cereal when you and I were young.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, is that–

Torea Rodriguez:  Like it’s the same stuff.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Got it.

Torea Rodriguez:  Yeah, it’s the preservatives. So there are–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  It keeps it crunchy when it sits in the milk for a while, right?

Torea Rodriguez:  That’s right. Totally.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes, I noticed.

Torea Rodriguez:  Capt N Crunch, in fact.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.

Torea Rodriguez:  So it—there’s research out there that says that it’s a neurotoxin. There’s research out there that says it’s not a neurotoxin. And as you know when you read PubMed research you are always gonna find both sides of the picture.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Torea Rodriguez:  But what they have found is that with lipid encapsulated viruses, so the herpes style-type viruses of which EBV is one. It’s actually herpes simplex virus IV. That it has a really good ability to disrupt that lipid bilayer of the viral body and help keep the actual attack of that virus down. And so you know, there—there’s a lot of research out there. There is a lot of anecdotal evidence out there that it works which is why I decided to do an n=1 experiment on myself and it seems to be definitely helping; whether or not I wanna do it long term, I’m not certain yet.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I will.

Torea Rodriguez:  If I wanna do it long term. But that’s the only—the only negative of it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I will put a link to the show notes. So if anyone that wants to get more intel on that they will have that at their fingertips. That’s great.

Torea Rodriguez:  Yeah. I’ll also send you a link to include in the show notes. There is a PDF or an eBook out there called the—the BHT book I think is what it’s called, and it was written by a biochemist by the name of Stephen Faulks and he put together a bunch of the research on its effect on lipid encapsulated viruses.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I know Steve. He wrote the book on smart drugs, right?

Torea Rodriguez:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, okay.

Torea Rodriguez:  He is also known for a—what is it? Aspartame, no, not aspartame. Araspid—araspertam?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Oh yes. Yeah, the—the various racetams. Yup.

Torea Rodriguez:  Yes, those. Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yup. Big—yeah, he’s a big fan of those. Very cool, awesome.

Torea Rodriguez:  Brilliant biochemist though and he really knows his stuff.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, I met Steve over at the—I think it’s Smart Life forum down in Silicon Valley over at Palo Alto.

Torea Rodriguez:  Yes.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, he’s a big guy over there. He gives a lot of informative talks.

Torea Rodriguez:  Yup, yup, really nice guy.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Very cool. Now you’ve kind of alluded to something earlier. I’m gonna go back to it.

Torea Rodriguez:  Great.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  My—my brain thinks. It kinda scatters a little bit, but I—it’ll all make sense at the end here. You talked about toxins and being able to check liver functions. So are we talking about just like in an ALT, AST liver enzymes on a blood test, or were you talking about organic acid testing for the liver?

Torea Rodriguez:  I use both.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Mmm.

Torea Rodriguez:  I wanted to take a look at both. So when I take on a client we do a full blood chemistry workup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Torea Rodriguez:  And an organic acids, and a look at both. I wanna make sure that both phase 1 and phase 2 processes are functioning properly. If they’re not, then I probably won’t go after microbials or pathogens or environmental toxins right away because we want to make sure that the body has a—an appropriate way of clearing this stuff. We don’t want to just add a whole bunch of extra burden to the liver if we can help it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And what you’re cut off for the ALT and AST on your lab test?

Torea Rodriguez:  Umm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Less than 20?

Torea Rodriguez:  Pretty much, yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Torea Rodriguez:  Yeah, I wanna make sure that, you know, it’s—it’s not too high. We want to make sure that it’s working efficiently. So–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Torea Rodriguez:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:   That’s exactly what I do. Now let’s pivot here. You mentioned in our pre-interview, you talked all about the organic acids. You talked about, and I love the organic acid test, I know there’s—I do the Genova testing in my office. I know you mentioned you do the—the GPL, the Great Plains Lab testing–

Torea Rodriguez:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And he also mentioned about their tox screen, which I’ve—doing more and more frequently. I’m actually gonna be doing a panel of myself as well as the one for the Roundup, the—the glyphosate, too.

Torea Rodriguez:  Oh, yeah, yeah, definitely.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So—so let’s pivot there. Talk to me more about the organics and how you’re using it with your patients and then kinda stack on how you’re interchangeably using the toxic screen, too.

Torea Rodriguez:  Yeah, sure. So organic acids, I was taught by another practitioner how to interpret organic acids, and I’ve—I’ve used the Genova as well as the Great Plains and–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Torea Rodriguez:  The thing that I love about the organic acids is we’re looking at metabolites of various different biochemical processes.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Torea Rodriguez:  And when there’s a problem with one chemical changing form to another chemical in that cycle–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Torea Rodriguez:  It will kinda spill over, just like if we had dammed up a reservoir; it kind of spills over and it gets into the urine and this is how we can see where there are problems in those functions in the body. And I think I love it so much because it’s one, simple collection for the client–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yup.

Torea Rodriguez:  And there are so many markers that look at so many different areas, so we can see bacterial overgrowth in the body pretty easily. It’s super, super sensitive for yeast. Whereas in any kind of stool test, like if you find yeast then you know you’ve got a raging yeast infection.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Absolutely.

Torea Rodriguez:  Yeah. So I like that it’s super sensitive for yeast. You can look at neurotransmitter balance. You can look at–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yup.

Torea Rodriguez:  You can look at methylation, nutritional deficiencies, like there is so much information in the organic acids that–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Mitochondria.

Torea Rodriguez:  It’s just really—yeah. Mitochondrial function which is huge–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Torea Rodriguez:  For people without immunity like of course, you’re feeling fatigued because your mitochondria–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Huge.

Torea Rodriguez:  Are not generating energy the way that they should and they are the energy powerhouses of the cell. So you know, knowing that allows me to be able to fine tune somebody’s wellness plan so that they can start feeling better sooner in looking at those kinds of things. So I love the organic acids for that reason.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  What major areas of the organic acid test are you seeing out of balance in your patients right now?

Torea Rodriguez:  Oh, gosh.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Just myself, I see them all–

Torea Rodriguez:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  But there are certain ones I see more frequently. I’m just curious just kind of like your intuitive guess.

Torea Rodriguez:  In the—yeah, in the last year there’s been a lot–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Torea Rodriguez:  Oxalate and yeast issues.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm.

Torea Rodriguez:  I’ve seen not so much neurotransmitter imbalance but definitely mitochondrial malfunction.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Got it.

Torea Rodriguez: And then the rest is the bacterial overgrowth.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah is really nice because it gives you that extra net to pick up gut issues outside of what you may miss on a stool test.

Torea Rodriguez:  Exactly, which is, you know, we were talking about that forest, right?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Torea Rodriguez:  And trying to find the bad guys in the forest, this gives us another way to do that with a different method which makes it a much better sweep of that forest.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Totally. And what about the tox screen? What kind of toxins are you seeing? How much Roundup, how much benzene, toluene? Whatever else you’re seeing there–

Torea Rodriguez:  Yeah, I really like it. I mean, there’s 172 markers on the—the labs. So it’s–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Unreal.

Torea Rodriguez:  It’s pretty comprehensive but, you know, that is allowing us to not only look at what somebody is biologically infected with like a co-infection but the environmental toxins from everywhere. So if you are getting exposed to lots of gasoline or gasoline exhaust fumes for example, maybe your work is—maybe you’re the person that holds the construction sign on the highway, you know, and you’re breathing in fumes all day long, or you’re a dental hygienist in Europe being put in the face of chemicals all day long, like we get to see those things but more importantly we are seeing pesticides that are used either in the yard or in the garden. We’re seeing the chemicals that are used for cleaning in the house or you know, the insecticides, right? In the house and cosmetics. I have to say it–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Torea Rodriguez:  Cosmetics and you know, self-care products, the shampoos, and the soaps, and all of that stuff that we put our skin shows up in this test. So I really love it because it—this is what hammers down the lifestyle piece of it, right? Making those changes to make sure that you’re not getting exposed to plastics for example.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, and what are the top three toxins you’re seeing come back on that screening?

Torea Rodriguez:  Honestly, they’re all over the map. I’ve just started running it–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Torea Rodriguez:  And it seems to be a little bit different for everybody.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Torea Rodriguez:  So I haven’t seen something that’s very common. Now the glyphosate that you had mentioned–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yes. The Roundup. Uh-hmm.

Torea Rodriguez:  Yeah, so that’s pretty much coming back on almost everybody.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I know. It’s scary. It really is scary.

Torea Rodriguez:  Yup. And that one, you know, not only is it Roundup but that’s—you know, people hear about GMO versus organic food—GMO, 9 times out of 10 is a plant that has been modified to be able to be a Roundup-ready or Roundup resistant.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Exactly.

Torea Rodriguez:  Right. So they’re spraying it, like this is the whole deal with GMOs, is like there is spraying it with pesticides, folks, and you’re eating it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Tons.

Torea Rodriguez:  Like that’s what’s happening. Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Like billions of pounds a year. I just got my—my whole lawn in my yard here in Austin replaced. We put down sod, and before they were saying, “Oh, typically the protocol is you know, we’re going to throw down a whole bunch of Roundup.” I said, “Nope. You’re just gonna—you’re gonna, you know, go and scalp it. You know use the bulldozer, whatever, do what you gonna do. No Roundup.” They say, “Oh, everyone does it. It’s innocuous. You know, turns into a sod, goes away.” But I’m seeing exactly what you’re seeing, lots of glyphosate or Roundup is found in people’s urine. So it’s obviously getting extracted or it’s coming out but the question is, I mean, “I’m not eating or—you know, pesticides and things like that. How are we getting exposed to it?” So it’s—it’s gotta be ubiquitous in the environment.

Torea Rodriguez:  It is pretty ubiquitous and I’ve talked to the folks at Great Plains and they’re seeing it in almost 100% of samples.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Scary.

Torea Rodriguez:  I mean, it’s—it is really scary.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Torea Rodriguez:  And thank you for putting in sod and not turf.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yes. You got it.

Torea Rodriguez:  Thank you.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  You got it.

Torea Rodriguez:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Try to be–

Torea Rodriguez:  Because I can only imagine the amount of plastic chemicals that I’m gonna find in somebody’s tox screen, then they tell me that they have a turf lawn.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I know and I called up the people over down here at—at Chem-free Lawns in Austin and I was talking to them about chemical-free fertilizers. They use a lot of probiotics or they’ll use–

Torea Rodriguez:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Natural herbs. They’ll even use various Helminths or worms to kill various infections.

Torea Rodriguez:  Oh, cool.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And—and we were chatting about that for a bit and they were talking to me about the demand to switch away from these more carcinogenic conventional pesticides to these more natural ones, how it’s just the demand is out of this world, and I think people are catching on, you know, if you follow The Truth About Cancer series that was out again this last month, a lot of these chemicals are associated with various lymphomas and leukemias and cancers that are carcinogenic and hormone disruptors. So I think it’s great that people are—by and large are starting to get exposed to this information.

Torea Rodriguez:  Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And it—you know, it’s one of those things that can—can contribute to autoimmunity.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Huge.

Torea Rodriguez:  Because, yeah, it’s huge. So super important.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Well, was there anything you wanna just kind of leave us with here? I’m gonna go onto my last question that I ask every guest, but is there anything else you wanted to share with the listeners that you find just really impactful or you’re just really passionate about right now that you wanna share?

Torea Rodriguez:  Yeah, you know, I think one of the things that I found in my practice that has been extremely powerful is not only is it diet, lifestyle factors, looking at the functional medicine piece of it, but it’s also really taking a look at your life and what’s important, and sorting through what matters the most, and once you identify what matters the most, like get rid of everything else that doesn’t because it’s just added stress, and we don’t need it, right? So really kinda coming—becoming clear with that, and I think a lot of times people feel like they are expected to have this career, do the—be the perfect wife, you know, all of those things and it’s—it’s really fascinating to determine that sometimes I end up counselling people through career changes–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Torea Rodriguez:  And relationship changes like those are really key parts of health so don’t ignore the emotional side either. That’s my point.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I think that’s really important. Where can our listeners find out more about you?

Torea Rodriguez:  So they can go to my website which is We’ll include that in the show notes because that’s a handful to spell out.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  That’s only one R. T-O-R-E-A We’ll put the link–

Torea Rodriguez:  Correct.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  For it below. Anywhere else? Do you have a YouTube channel? Do you have a podcast? Do you have anything else going on?

Torea Rodriguez:  If they subscribe to my newsletter and blog, I do a video blog every week, so they’ll be able to get that in the newsletter, and then the other thing that I’m working on right now is the five-week course that’s gonna launch in January. That’s an environmental toxin course, so it’s five weeks to help clean out the home and the body without getting overwhelmed, and that’s gonna include that environmental tox screen that we talked about.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Love it. I’m doing that more and more–

Torea Rodriguez:  Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I got one on my test, sitting on my desk here that I gotta get done soon on myself, so I’m excited.

Torea Rodriguez:  Excellent.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So last question. If you are stuck on a desert island and you only could bring one supplement with you, what would it be?

Torea Rodriguez:  Supplement.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  It could be like an herb. It could be like coconut oil. It could be like anything. Just supplement or compound or tincture or whatever you want.

Torea Rodriguez:  Well, the first thing that came to mind is what I’m gonna go with. I’m gonna say an avocado tree.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  An avocado tree, there you go.

Torea Rodriguez:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, so essential fatty acids essentially.

Torea Rodriguez:  Essential fatty acids, lots of fiber, it’s–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Torea Rodriguez:  You know, it’s awesome. So I love avocado. That would definitely be it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Got it. Getting our monosaccharide fats going. Very cool.

Torea Rodriguez:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And also fun fact about an avocado. Avocados have more potassium than bananas. Everyone thinks, “Oh, you know, potassium. Leg cramps, right? Grab a banana.”  Well, actually avocados have more and less sugar.

Torea Rodriguez:  Avocados, awesome.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Very cool. Awesome, Torea. Great chatting with you and well, look forward to have you back on the show soon.

Torea Rodriguez:  Yeah, thank you so much. Super fun.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Thanks.  Take care.

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