Dr. Bernd Friedlander – Using collagen to promote optimal health – Podcast #126

Join Dr. Justin Marchegiani as he welcomes his special guest, Dr. Bernd Friedlander in this week’s episode all about collagen. Obtain a lot of valuable information as Dr. Bernd shares his success and expertise in his field of practice when it comes to nutrition and supplement recommendation of collagen in the athletes he trained.

Pick up on some helpful information regarding the different benefits and uses of collagen in issues like wounds, ageing and healing. Listen carefully as they discuss and relate collagen with leaky gut and other inflammatory conditions. Explore all about caloric restriction diet, its health benefits; and apply specific recommendations of these experts when it comes to improving mitochondrial function, carbohydrate, fats, and protein consumption.

In this episode, we cover:

3:57   Collagen: types, benefits, dosage recommendation

14:21   Systemic enzymes for inflammation

21:09   Glycine and Leaky gut

24:40   Caloric Restriction diet

30:58   Mitochondria

41:03   Carbohydrate and Glucose Consumption

48:33   Cholesterol and Fat Consumption

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Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey there! It’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani. Welcome back to Beyond Wellness Radio. Today we have a great guest Dr. Bernd Friedlander. Dr. Friedlander is a researcher; he’s a clinician; also a physical therapist; doctor in chiropractic medicine; nutritionist; has years and years of experience with uh – human performance and bio hacking at the professional level, as well as the clinical level, that we see all our patients at today. So, Dr. Bernd, welcome to the show.

Dr. Bernd:  Dr. Justin, how are you? I appreciate you having me on your show. I look forward to talking to you.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, thank you. I know you’re one of the most foremost experts out there on collagen. And I love collagen for all the great benefits. It helps with hair, skin, nails, joints, and it’s such a really excellent amino acid. Would you mind – I know we were – We have a- a product that you help formulate here for us called, “True Collagen” – That’s absolutely great. It’s a collagen peptide formula which I love the peptides, that we deal with so much with leaky gut. And people have a hard time taking the collagels and in breaking it down. And this makes it a lot easier. Would you mind talking about – just kinda collagen and kinda the overall benefits and kinda what your take on it is.

Dr. Bernd: Yes. You know, uh – I got into collagen actually accidentally when I was working with the Los Angeles Raiders. I was working with uh – a number of the athletes there, especially Howie Long.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-huh.

Dr. Bernd: And I was introduced to an Orthopedic doctor back in the 80’s. And – and he was interested in my work with the athletes and how I incorporated nutrition, as well as dietary supplements to the athletes. In the 80’s, you know – they weren’t into that. They were still eating carbohydrate and uh – low fats, low protein. But now, I’d – I’d sort of turned around by increasing the protein levels and reducing the carbohydrate. And uh – that time, I was working with Knox Gelatine.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhm.

Dr. Bernd: They developed that formula for me – that I was able to use with my athletes. So the Orthopedic doctor was telling me that he reverse his own serious uh – disherniation that he developed as an athlete. He was a premier high school athlete that was uh – highly recruited by five different universities. And he ended up in Michigan. And his first year in Michigan playing football, he uh – ruptured his disc so badly, that it really destroyed his uhm – possibility to even be a professional athlete.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhm.

Dr. Bernd: So he – he ended up going to medical school training and become an Orthopedic doctor. And he tells me, instead of trying to get surgery done, he looked at every aspect of the  uh – spinal cord and to see how he reverse the genera – generative condition – condition that he’s developed-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Bernd:  from sports by healing himself. So he started using Knox Gelatine collagen at that time, which was not a true collagen.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Bernd: Uh – it was more in the gelatin form.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Bernd: But he started taking 3-4 packets a day with vitamin D, vitamin C, and calcium. Within six months, the pain was gone. Within one year, he never needed surgery. So we – we discussed this while I was working with the Raiders. How it – beneficial collagen is. And I started really researching at extensively with uh – Linus Pauling.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow!

Dr. Bernd: And we got the experts in the field and discovered that 99% of the spinal cord is made up collagen. It was the primary protein that developed the spinal cord.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow!

Dr. Bernd: And then the nerve, myelin sheath, etc. developed from that. And I started realizing that collagen has many properties: anti-inflammatory, uh – repairing, regenerating, cartilage repair. It also repairs tendons and ligaments. It’s the only protein that does that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I love it. And then regarding the collagen types that you like, you’re a big well – The main collagen that were doing is getting from grass-fed beef. That’s the true collagen, and that’s type I and type IV, correct?

Dr. Bernd: It’s actually type I and type III.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I and III.

Dr. Bernd: Uh – yeah. I and III is predominantly what the human body is made out of. Type II has a little hyaluronic acid.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Bernd: And that’s usually from chicken cartilage.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Bernd: Uh – the palm wine never got into chicken cartilage because most of the uh – producers of chicken cartilage are not naturally-fed.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Bernd: They use soy in corn. And that disturbs the hormonal balance uh – of the chicken, as well as the thyroid – disrupts thyroid function. So I stayed away from chicken cartilage.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s amazing. That is very good. So I and III is gonna give us the best bet. Now with the collagen peptides II, we have the digestion benefits, right? Coz they’re in peptide form. That’s why when you put the regular gels in it, it kinda – it makes basically gello. That’s kinda where the word “gello” came from. But this – this type of collagen that you’ve created, you put in a peptide form, so that- when you put it in the water, you literally can see it dissolve and breaking down right in front of your eyes. Can you talk about how you guys do that? And then, how does that benefit us from an absorption standpoint?

Dr. Bernd: Well you know – uh going back to the days that I would work with Knox Gelatine, I – we were discussing this with the R&D Department. And R&D Department put on a show – uh that’s an entirely uh – advance in the field of collagen peptides. They’re not willing to make this kind of collagen. It was too extensive and too high, pricey. So they sort of connected me in how I need to achieve that kind of peptide. Once I started reviewing the research, and working with chemists, and the ideal thing is, you want a hydrolyze uh – peptide form of collagen. So it is 99% absorbed immediately.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it.

Dr. Bernd:  -with 5 to 10 minutes, without any digestive enzymes requiring. As you know, every amino acid protein out there, you have to break it down to hydrochloric acid and pepsin.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Bernd: And through the stomach.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Bernd: And the uh – pancreas, through the pancreatic enzyme, trypsin and chymotrypsin. And you also need B6 to convert the amino acids to peptide.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Bernd: Collagen doesn’t require any form of enzymes or B6 to be broken down. It’s immediately delivered in the blood to the area that it needs to repair, regenerate, or work with.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I love that. So that just really increase the absorption. And with the True Collagen, I play it around to make the neo cell chicken cartilage, that you mentioned. And you can just pour some of it in there. And you can see it literally become emulsify kinda right before your very eyes.

Dr. Bernd: Right. And the other thing about your collagen that you have is, it is the most molecular weight collagen on – on the planet right now so far – very low. And the other thing that don’t people understand compared to all the other collagen out there, our molecule levels is extremely low. Therefore, it’s gonna be assimilated, absorbed immediately. Number two: the density that the structure and the density of the collagen is very important. Uh – we were able to also bring down the density structures to the levels that it is now truly absorbable, uh – utilized more efficiently and you are producing more minerals out of these collagen, as well.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I love that. And I know we talked in the past about dose. And the typical recommendations I have for my patients currently 10-20 g a day maintenance, and after 40 to 60 grams if you’re trying to get aesthetic benefits, or if you’re trying to rehab joint issues or disc issues, would you say those recommendations are correct?

Dr. Bernd: I would say for maintenance for skin – We did a study with animals back in Japan.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow.

Dr. Bernd: In the early 2000 and we found that 10 grams of collagen restores elasticity in the skin, and also helps with bone density. In one year working with human, you want to increase that level because there are so many other factors. You know, density, and structure, and inflammation. So I find that if you do 30 grams in the morning, and 30 grams in the afternoon, or early evening, I have seen people were there joints, shoulders, rotator injuries uh – torn rotators, bone to bone cartilage in the knee or the hip, I’ve seen people and have people testimonials come to me saying that they are able to walk the first time, or use weights for the first time. And using that program about 60 grams. We found about 40 to 60 grams restores and repairs and regenerate injuries.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Now what did you notice with your chiropractic patients clinically in practice. What were you seeing with their disc issues? Let’s say before using collagen to after. What were you noticing in their recovery time? How much has it improved?

Dr. Bernd: Well, very important, uh – going towards my latter part of my years with the athletes, I notice the athletes dramatically improved and recovered much faster when I started them on collagen, especially with the Raiders and the Rams, and some of the other athletes. And then when I started introducing it to my patients, I’ve noticed that I was able to facilitate their healing dramatically. So I – I didn’t need to treat them as long – as much as I used to. And they’re are able to function much faster and the pain – the first thing I hear from the patient is dramatically that the pain goes down dramatically. And that’s so important, as you know, reducing – reducing pain and inflammation. So that’s the first thing – inflammation and pain went down dramatically fast. And then within weeks, they’re able to uh – function and move their joints, and are able to sit, or drive without having that discomfort in their lower back.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Now are there any herbs that you find with really synergistically help reduce the inflammation. Maybe Boswellia or Curcumin? Anything you’ve done clinically?

Dr. Bernd: We’ve done a lot of research and I’m on the board of the AMM University College of Pharmacy and at the Ohio State University, College of Medicine and then working with the UC Davis, UCLA. Uhm – we found that there’s many plant’s out there that are very highly anti-inflammatory. And you mention Boswellia being number one.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhm.

Dr. Bernd: We found Boswellia by far number one. Ginger, rosemary, uh – actually turmeric and curcumin was not in the high rank.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hm.

Dr. Bernd: It wasn’t extremely as powerful as some of these other herbs but Boswellia, definitely number one in every situation we did research. And then we found ginger rosemary close. All the other uhm – you know uhm – spices you see out there. Cardamine is very powerful as an anti-inflammatory. And – but then if you add turmeric with ginger and rosemary and Boswellia, it does enhance. But if by itself, it didn’t to as much. Uhm –my number one thing, I’ll tell you by far, is Aspirin. I find Aspirin works all the time for me, because aspirin is a natural inflammatory works on COX-1 and COX-2 inflammatory uh – prostaglandin. The only one that deals with 1 & 2. And number three, it has tremendous antioxidant ability, as well as helps trabecular, meaning it restores bone back with collagen. When taken aspirin with collagen, it helps to bind the collagen to the __ and glue them together.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So regarding the aspirin, would it be just as good or better to do the white willow bark instead? Just to avoid some of the gut or liver side-effects?

Dr. Bernd: No. There’s really not that much that – the problem with people with aspirin is that they already __and vitamin E reduces ulcers dramatically. Uhm – if they take baking soda with aspirin, they can actually buffer the aspirin. So they can take 6 – I have people take 6 to 10 aspirins a day with baking soda. And they have no problem. And that affects uh – one of the side-effects that was – that one person who is dealing with the structural problem was on my collagen, and he started taking 6 to 10. His stomach cancer actually went down dramatically and his father who’s an MD, was amazed by the results. And so he incorporated aspirin for his patients for other conditions such as you know – colon and stomach cancer.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And aspirin, doesn’t it have the side-effects of like – Ibuprofen or the NSAID family?

Dr. Bernd: No.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: The Non Steroidal Anti Inflammatory Drug, correct?

Dr. Bernd: It doesn’t cause any liver discomfort or uh – those of the detoxification system.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Bernd: And it has so many – it also reduces fatty acid synthesis, which is a – a byproduct of our mitochondrial deficiency.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhh.

Dr. Bernd: When you – if you take aspirin and collagen and coffee in the morning, it doubles the uncoupling mechanism of the mitochondrial proteins. It enhances the mitochondrial to achieve ATP more efficiently.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Interesting. And I think aspirin was created from the while willow bark, too. Correct? So that did come to the herb originally.

Dr. Bernd: Uh-hmm. Yeah. And you can use, like you said, why throw a bark? It’s exceptional. It works. Uhm and usually takes a longer time, but once you have enough in the body, it does work as well or even better than aspirin.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very interesting. What’s your take on systemic enzymes for inflammation?

Dr. Bernd: Uhm, you know, for inflammation, I find – I’ve always use Remylin, number one, for that purpose, and Parsitan. Remilyn-Parsitan works for me the most effectively. Uhm – and the research that I look at, it’s always well known in athletic performance. That Remilyn was always number one. Uhm – chymotrypsin, trypsin – all these things uhm – they have some anti-inflammatory mechanisms, but they work more on breaking down proteins more efficiently. And that’s their function. Remilyn and has more of an anti-inflammatory mechanisms. Uhm – uh you know, dealing with prostaglandins-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Prostaglandins, right. Interesting. And what about topical effects of collagen? Maybe putting it on topically or taking it topically? Maybe they heal cuts, or wounds and scars? What’s your take on the best protocol for healing cuts, wounds, and scars?

Dr.Bernd: Well the one you have, the True Collagen, that you uh – provide  to your patient because of the molecular weight is extremely the lowest on the market today. It will penetrate down through the skin a little bit more efficiently. Most collagen, the molecular weight’s too large.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Bernd: It’s like a hyaluronic acid. They are different molecular weight, hyaluronic acids, uh – and for the joints, you need the lowest molecular weight to get in there. For the skin, you don’t need that much. But in collagen, you will get some effect from the low molecular, low density weight of collagen. And people have made like uh – like a topical paste. You know –

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Bernd: – on their skin. And I’ve heard incredible stories. I myself take it orally.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Bernd:  And I’ve noticed just orally, everybody says I’m 68 and I’m out on the sun everyday. They all say, “you got incredible skin, how do you keep it that way?”It’s gotta be collagen because I don’t much other than that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. I was – I saw Dave Asprey maybe a year or two ago at the Paleo conference and he was getting all these compliments on his hair growing out, and his skin is vibrant. And he’s just really up to collagen – so 60g a day. I think that mirrors your protocol. The 30 and 30.

Dr. Bernd: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And he was crediting a lot of his skin and hair benefits from the higher dose collagen as well.

Dr. Bernd: You know, interesting uhm – three years ago, I had dinner with uh –with one of the doctors, uhm – and he had a client in Chicago who’s working out, who is an osteopath there. And she was working out in the gym, and right across the street is uh – Oprah Winfrey.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow!

Dr. Bernd: Oprah Winfrey is very close to this guy named Alexis. Alexis is a Bulgarian Powerlifter.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Bernd: He had a gym called – in Chicago and he was telling me that, he was taking my collagen – that collagen peptide that you have. And he’s – he has severe bone to bone loss of cartilage on his knee from lifting over 33,000 lbs over his head. And he’s record holder in his country and he was a former Olympic uh – lifter. And he was complaining every day about pain. So the doctor says, “well, let me give you some of this collagen I’ve been taking” So gain a couple pounds of it and in a couple of days, he went back to her and said, “this is the most incredible thing, uh – I started taking uh – 60g of this stuff and I noticed my pain went down” So he went on 100g a day level for six weeks, went to see his Orthopedic doctor, he took an x-ray of his knees, and he says, “My God, what’s going on? You’ve got cartilage growing back in your knee.” And he says, “you know, I noticed __. So uhm – it was – you know, he’s on a hundred because he’s a massive individual. He’s huge. You know, he’s like a football player, but very short and stocky. So when you’re in that kind of dense person and athletic like he is, you need to go even higher.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it. That’s make so much sense.

Dr. Bernd: And you don’t have to be on it all the time. You don’t have to be on it – I read from a leading article way back in the 50’s, 60’s from uh – MD, and he was giving everybody bone broth, chicken stock and collagen from different sources. And he was adding it every single day to their diet. And that’s how he restore their health completely.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I love it. That makes so much sense. And are there any topical products out there on the market are you aware of that you can take in conjunction with the collagen, but topically to put on in any cuts or wounds or things like that to help improve healing and recovery there – reduce scarring?

Dr. Bernd: You know, Yeah. You know – I mean if you ever have a problem with any situation, hydrogen peroxide works so easily and so fast in wound healing. And also somehow, basal cell carcinoma you may see it disappear. Uhm – vitamin E and vitamin C are my two favorite.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhm.

Dr. Bernd: Because vitamin C and vitamin E and hyaluronic acid together, and it is one of the best because you know – Vitamin C and collagen are so complimental to each each other.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes, they are.

Dr. Bernd: They work – work synergistically together and uhm – when you have enough Vitamin C, it enhances collagen function and also collagen does the same thing to vitamin C. So having vitamin C just as itself has profound effects.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s great.

Dr. Bernd: And if you get – yeah. If you above 10% of the solution, then you gonna see results.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Is that a 3% hydrogen peroxide? Or is that a food grade?

Dr. Bernd: Uhm – Yes, I’ve used even food grade where I mix it a little bit so I get it down to about 10, 15%. And I myself has a couple of uhm – you know a couple of thins on my – on my nose from being outdoors. I play professional soccer all my life so I’ve been outdoors all my life and then tracks. So you develop this little sunspots.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Sunspots.

Dr. Bernd: And I put it on there, and it goes away – it’s gone. If I have, with a Q-tip, I use it topically, and it stings. You want to get it to the level where you have a sting out of it. For about three minutes, it stings and then you just let it go, and the next day, add another one. And then in a few days, it’s gone.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it. That’s great. Excellent tips.

Dr. Bernd: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And then let’s talk about some of the gut healings. I know you mentioned just bone broth a few minutes ago, and I know Dr. Natasha Campbell-McBride, the person who created the GAPS diet to help people with gut issues, the gut and psychology syndrome diet. She talks about bone broth and bone broth is really high in glycine. That’s one of the major benefits of glycine. And we know glycine is also really, really, really high in collagen along with hydroxyproline and.

Dr. Bernd: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Can you talk about how glycine really helps to work to heal the gut?

Dr. Bernd: Well collagen and glycine – you know that some – the wall – the lining of the wall is pretty – even in the arteries. People don’t understand that Linus Pauling told me this many years ago, that the lining of the walls of the arteries, of the gut, is predominantly the teflon to smoothness –

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Bernd: – is made from collagen. That’s why he was a big promoter of lycine, and proline, and vitamin C in his program. It’s because he wanted to increase the – the Teflon, the smoothness, elasticity of the lining of the wall. The cell membrane where uh – nutrients go in and out, water retention in sodium potassium – It’s all controlled by collagen proteins such as glycine. And it helps to heal the gut by sealing the leaky gut syndrome. The gut junctions which get inflamed. And they start you know – proliferating with uh – holes because of the inflammatory mechanisms. And collagen seems to seal that. So if people start taking collagen with their meals, they don’t have the symptoms of leaky gut or Crohn’s or IBS or colitis. They don’t get that kind of symptoms because collagen helps to reduce the inflammatory mechanisms by suppressing MMP-9, which is a major inflammatory component. And – and

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhm.

Dr. Bernd: Collagen is one of the few that reduces the MMP-9 uhm – mechanisms that causes most of the inflammation in the gut and it does that. And glycine does that. So does glycine, choline and alanine. And – and even a little glutamine in there. So you’re gonna get that healing effect that happens. And you’re right, you know – the endotoxins that we consume and produce in the gut, when it leaks out, it causes all your inflammatory conditions, neurological conditions, you know uh – Parkinson’s, Alzheimer’s. All these things are caused by that. Arthritis is another component of leaky gut syndrome. So the more collagen you take, the more you having more protection in supporting the lining of the wall and reducing the inflammation.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting. Yeah, I see that. That’s the matrix metalloproteinase nine.

Dr. Bernd: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And there’s a couple of studies I’m looking at – one here, right now on Pubmed in the Journal of Development. They’re talking about that being really – being modulated by collagen matrix formula. That makes sense.  So it’s really helping to modulate the MMP-9, thus helping to reduce inflammation and improve joint inflammation recovery.

Dr. Bernd: Yes. Yes. We got many benefits from collagen. It’s not only just repair and generate, but protection. And also another big thing, you know – uh one of the biggest areas I – I worked on was a caloric restriction diet.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Bernd: And it wasn’t about 20 years later after working with Roy Walford.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Bernd: And I uh – I started realizing what is uhm – what are the benefits of caloric restriction diet? Well the major benefits, I started reviewing every single paper from Richard Miller –

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Bernd: to Lopez to Aschinger and others is that –

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Autophagy.

Dr. Bernd: Yeah. By increasing autophagy –

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Bernd: And by reducing inflammation and iron, and reducing polyunsaturated oils, which are the major contributors of ageing.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Bernd: But here’s what I started, if you reduce certain inflammatory proteins like, methionine, cysteine, and tryptophan, which are devoid in collagen. Now I understood why collagen is such an important protein because it’s devoid of three major amino acids that contribute to basically oxidative stress.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhm.

Dr. Bernd:  Glycation, thyroid dysfunction – all proven by these low caloric restriction diets that they saw the markers of what they are looking work for. The stresses on the body, the epigenetic genes that are – are expressed by reducing uh – caloric restriction. It all comes back to these amino acids. There was a link to all these three researchers Richard – Miller –

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Bernd: work on this, who’s a PhD, MD and some other people like Lopez and Aschinger

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Bernd: And the others like that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Bernd: It showed that collagen devoid of this, is the only protein out there that is safe to consume on a daily basis, that have the caloric restriction benefits.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: But you don’t see any problems with – I get that. So maybe we can apply some intermittent fasting in such –

Dr. Bernd: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: – to our weekly regimen. That makes sense. I get that, but eating like grass-fed meat or like fresh salmon, or foods that have a serotonin or 5-HTP or tyrosine in it, is that gonna be okay? Is that gonna cause a problem?

Dr. Bernd: Eventually the serotonin issue raises estrogen and with my cancer patients – I’ve treated over 14,000 patients, and estrogen and serotonin is very high in almost all of them. And they’re contributing to uh – reducing thyroid function, number one.  They also increase nitric oxide and histamine, which is a contributing factor to endotoxins, leaky gut syndrome, and brain function. So what I’ve also discovered, if you compliment collagen with uh – these type of foods-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Bernd: That are high in tryptophan, it sort of reduces the uh-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Bernd: The damaging effect of-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Bernd: of tryptophan, methionine and cysteine. So collagen balances whatever foods you gonna eat. So I remember uh – a very famous MMA cage fighter.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Bernd: And working with Chris Cyborg who’s number one in the world.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Ohh.

Dr. Bernd: undefeated. When she was on whey protein, she had a lot of distention and bloating, and gut issues.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Bernd: When we added collagen in a higher level, all the symptoms went away completely. But when she stopped with collagen, they came back.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting.

Dr. Bren: So it was – So that’s why she realized that how important was collagen to her supplement because it reduced the inflammation, the gut, the bloating, the distention, and the fatigue that she developed from having that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. So you think maybe there was a good parity with the collagen adding the extra glycine hydroxyproline-proline with some of the higher amounts of  sulfur amino / glutathione precursors in the way. You think that kind added a good balance to it essentially?

Dr. Bernd: Yeah. And one of the – you gotta be careful with glutathione and sulfur groups, uhm – In all the research that we’ve done and I’ve looked at, maintaining an oxidative uh – metabolism, that means you now looking at the redux signaling. You got glycation of glucose –

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Bernd: Oxidation of glucose. It’s how everything works and then you have the reduction stage as the byproduct of energy. Okay, you get the reduced state. You don’t wanna convert to reduced state the NADH back to NAD+

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Bernd:  That’s where all the sciences go on. So maintaining a highly NAD+ state, maintains longevity and – and reduces the chances for heart disease, cancer, and diabetes. And by reducing these amino acids, that I mentioned, these amino acids – even the glutathione amino acids uh – maintain the body in an NADH state in a reduced state. And you want to convert that back to NAD+ And the amino acids that do that, are your choline, lysine, and glycine. You know lycine, choline and glycine are the major ones to contribute to an oxidative state.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very interesting.

Dr. Bernd: Yeah. And that’s why –

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Go ahead. Yeah.

Dr. Bernd: That’s why a lot of the stem cell clinics – are the Ahvie Herskowitz in San Francisco uses my collagen to prep the body to make more stem cells. So when he does stem cells from either the fatty tissue or the – you know from the bone, using bone marrow.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Bernd: He’ll prep the patient up with collagen because it doubles the stem cell function and improves the stem cells.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love that. And you’re just referring a lot of the various pathways that are involved in the Kreb’s cycle which has to do with the mitochondrial function. I wanna talk about that in just a bit. And you were talking a lot about these reducing agents. And just for the listeners at home, all our reduction agent is a –takes on an electron. Oxidation is a loss of electrons; reduction is a gain of electrons. So you have the NAD, plus the H, that’s the electron UVF ADH, too, which add the extra electron. And these electrons, these hydrogen compounds are then brought into the electron transport chain to generate more ATP. So Bernd, can you switch gears and talk about the mitochondria? Just kinda give your Reader’s Digest version of what it is, and what people can do to help improve the mitochondrial function?

Dr. Bernd: Yes. You know, going back to billions of year ago, the molecule that gave life to every living system was a bacteria, called an organelle, called the mitochondria.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhm.

Dr. Bernd: And when the mitochondria establish an envelope around itself, they created that – these organelles for energy. Every plant, every animal, every living system has – and this is what the oxidation reduction cycling is all about. And every disease state, like Edison Pharmaceuticals, working on a mitochondrial uhm – molecule that increases mitochondria in the brain, because all degenerative diseases they’re finding are caused by the lack of NAD+ an increased NAD H which is the reduction state of the cell.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Bernd:  And if you can increase the NAD+, you main – well we’re born – we’re born with a  500:1 ratio of NAD+ to NADH.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Bernd:  As we get older, this level starts declining to 200:1 to uh – 100:1 and then it shifts. That’s how a disease starts and that’s how the cell – everything that the body regenerates with, it requires mitochondrial function.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Bernd: Immune system functions by the mitochondria by producing energy and the byproduct of CO2, carbon dioxide.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah

Dr. Bernd: And carbon dioxide is a chemical necessary. It’s very valuable in producing energy as well, but it’s an antioxidant. It reduces free radical damage.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhm.

Dr. Bernd: – by producing CO2 and people don’t realize that’s why high altitude –  athletes train in high altitude to enhance performance and recovery. We did a study with cancer patients by putting them at high altitude; they were able to recover from their cancer. Because the more CO2 you have, the great ability to recover and to increase NAD+. And Speckmen – Speckmen the largest study in the world on human –on animals than human, that by maintaining a highly oxidative state, uhm –all the animals that live the longest, all the human uh – uh –cultures that have the highest longevity, he discovered they all had a very high metabolic function due to the NAD+, to the mitochondria being at optimal levels. Sinclair and Garante out of Harvard, they are all working on molecules that produce mitochondrial energy by increasing NAD+ because once you have NAD levels higher, you can get hypoxia, which is one of the components to ageing, and disease, and cardiovascular disease, and then cancer. And then another thing that occurs is fatty acid synthesis which is another molecule that cancer cells switched from oxidative blood glucose they go into breaking down uhm – fats and proteins in our body to make energy for the cancer cells to you know – continue their uh – reproduction and growth.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting.

Dr. Bernd: If you switch that – Yeah. If you switch that and reduce fatty acid into synthesis – synthesis uh – reduced hypoxia inducible factor 1, you do that by increasing NAD+. That’s how you change the whole element. So, niacinamide and collagen together.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Bernd: -works the best for increasing –

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: B vitamins – B2

Dr. Bernd: NAD

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Bernd: B1, B2, you’re absolutely right and  uh- Cortisone, anything that has air and that has uh – that helps with NAD molecule. And then also reducing the inflammatory uh – conditions of the body, the amino acid that produce inflammation, the foods that produce inflamm- Iron polyunsaturated oils. One of the worst things that reduces NAD levels in the mitochondria. So you wanna reduce polyunsaturated oils and only eat –go to Queen butter olive oil, coconut oil, MCT oil. These are promoters of NAD. They’re promoters mitochondrial function and they also promote thyroid. And thyroid is the major organ that regulates the mitochondria and maintains the function of the mitochondria at the optimum levels.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So I just wanna make sure I’m hearing correctly. You talked about oxidative stress being a good thing, right? But at the same standpoint, though, iron can create more oxidative stress while I guess like the rusting on the nail that oxidative stress as well. Like that’s the rusting on the nail, right? That’s oxidative stress.

Dr. Bernd: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: How do we have both of those things that kinda seem like their almost in- in- in conflict?

Dr. Bernd: Well again and at a certain age, we can reduce the levels of iron. We need at –

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Bernd: – the age of 40 as much. So by reducing – never take iron with vitamin C. That’s the problem.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Bernd:  And iron and polyunsaturated oils are another problem. They contribute to glycation and misfolding protein.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Correct.

Dr. Bernd: So in that sense that’s – that’s okay. That’s what we have to do. But by making sure that we shift our body to a high NAD+ state with CO2, as uh – you know from drinking –that’s we get from baking soda. You increase CO2 levels, you get it from drinking mineral water like, Pellegrino or the German one called __.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Bernd: These are the good sources of natural CO2 and that keeps your body at that level.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting.

Dr. Bernd: So – so the thing is you always want to keep an oxidative of – oxidation of glucose is the major function of the mitochondria. Once it’s efficiently high and that oxidative state of glucose by breaking down glucose more efficiently, that’s how we get energy. And that’s just basically regulated by our thyroid and reducing estrogen in our body.  Estrogen and nitric oxide and histamine are the major – major contributor factors to deficient uhm –mitochondrial function and lowering thyroid function.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally understand it. Regarding the iron, too. That recommendation may be different with females to males, as women do menstruate  every month, you know, up until they go menopausal.

Dr. Bernd: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: – late 40s or late 50s. So they’re shedding some of that iron every month in their menstruation. Would you recommend therapeutic phlebotomy or just giving blood, maybe once a quarter or a couple times a year to help reduce some of that iron load as well?

Dr. Bernd: Yeah. And it’s also to produce more red blood cells and it’s like stem cells. You – you’re stimulating the body to make more red blood cells and you wanna do that. It – one of the best things to do that  is every 3 to 6 months. I have friends that do that religiously and that keeps theirs – health up and immune system up, and they seem to do really well.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very good. Now regarding some of the oxidation/reduction. So you mention the oxidation agents are like NAD or FADH minus the H2. So,  we’re missing that extra hydrogen. So basically what I’m trying to understand and kind of boil down for the patients is that we’re trying to take those hydrogen, those electrons from the Krebs cycle and we’re trying to move them over to the electron transport chain, so we can generate more energy and have better mitochondrial function. Is that the goal?

Dr. Bernd: Yes, it is.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay.

Dr. Bernd: Uhm, you know, I had wonderful discussion way back in listening to the fellow that invented the RNA DNA with cricket and wasps.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup, yup.

Dr. Bernd:  He was on Charlie Rose and about five years ago, four years ago – five years ago, he said on national television, we’re losing the war on cancer and Charlie says, “why?” He says, “we’re not looking at the Krebs cycle, we’re not looking at the oxidative uh – uh effects of glucose – oxidation of glucose in the – in the in the mitochondria.” He says if we start looking at that, and shipped back to understanding how the Krebs cycle, we can win the war on cancer. He said it on national television and he’s actually right. He says that we can increase the NAD+ levels in our body, we should be able to repair anything that’s damaged and reverse conditions that are – you know uh – created by these deficiencies. And so he said the right words and it’s all based on all the Otto Warburg-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Bernd: He said that and got two Nobel Prize. Uh, Gombert said the same thing in his works. Solley did the same thing uhm – so did Sir George

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. George. Yeah

Dr. Bernd: So did uh – William Code. They’re all – all five people and minus point agreed with all five of them that this is such an important thing about the oxidation of glucose that goes totally in a deficient or breaks down in the mitochondria due to these elements of free radical damage. And that’s why autophagy, recycling the damage and using it for energy is why you have intermittent fasting.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Bernd:  -or exercise or you know – and  that’s what caloric restriction have done. They – they help in autophagy phases –increase the mechanisms.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, so this is interesting. So we have a phenomena known as advanced glycation and products, that if we consume too much sugar in we coat our proteins with too much sugar, we get our human hemoglobin A1C levels too high, we can increase free radical stress. So where is the balance? Where is the tipping point where glucose goes too high and we create this extra oxidative stress? Is it have to do with insulin resistance? How do you measure that? How you make specific recommendations for your patients regarding carbohydrate and glucose consumption?

Dr. Bernd: Okay, very interesting. You and I, I – I started uh –working with the uh – inventor of the MRI, okay?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm. Wow.

Dr. Bernd: And we’re looking at brain chemistry. Raymond Damadian is the genius. So we’re looking at cerebrospinal fluid and Raymond is actually the founder of MRI and he founded the Fonar.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Bernd: And he says that chiropractors are the greatest people to work with because they know how to treat the cerebrospinal fluid which contributes to every neurological disease known to man.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhm.

Dr. Bernd: Okay. Concussion syndromes found uh –like the worst one was Jim McMahon

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Bernd: And I’ll share this – really important why. Jim McMahon had the worst concussion syndrome of any athlete in the football.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And just for the listeners, he was the quarterback for the Chicago Bears 86; he won the Super Bowl with them as well.

Dr. Bernd: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Bernd: And the whole story is on his website and then finally the family uh – sent Raymond uh – send Jim McMahon to Raymond Damadian in New York for a – for his Fonar. The Fonar the only true MRI that you can stand up, not recline, you get the correct posture, the correct flow of the brain, cerebrospinal fluid so you can see what is actually wrong with the body.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmm.

Dr. Bernd: And it takes 30 seconds and it is not a claustrophobia effect and it costs almost nothing to do. Any he did a whole evaluation of his brain and –and with the camera that he developed the late uh – early 2000s with the Fonar, he was able to see the cerebrospinal fluid, the ventricles and how it was damaged.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmm.

Dr. Bernd: In concussion syndrome, it is the ventricles –the cerebrospinal fluid is supposed to flow from the brain to the spinal cord.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it.

Dr. Bernd: -32 quarts a day. 32 quarts

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow.

Dr. Bernd: and half the quarts produced by the ventricles every day.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow.

Dr. Bernd: And lay – and the concussion syndromes like Jim McMahon and many others and MS patients, they’re only producing 12 quarts or less. And when he had a a – chiropractor named Scott Rosa to do an active uh – uh hole to one adjustment, a – you know – atlas only.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Bernd: They corrected Jim McMahon in two treatments where his function is back to normal; his dementia is completely gone; he’s functioning full – at full state of mind. And that’s rare; you never see that. We done that with other athletes from the NFL same thing, they restore themselves back to normal and with uh – autism patients –adult autism patient, completely recovered back just by correcting the cerebrospinal fluid.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So what are the best chiropractic techniques-

Dr. Bernd: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -to help with that? I know sacro-occipital technique is great.

Dr. Bernd: Uhm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Upledger as well. You mention some of the upper cervical whether it’s Atlas Orthogonal, or cervical knee chest, or uhm Nucca. Are there any other specific chiropractic techniques you like for that?

Dr. Bernd: Well, you know, I ask that with Raymond. He believes that chiropractic in general has the best benefit. Yes, if you can isolate the atlas and adjust that correctly, he said that has been the – the best value for treating these conditions. And the results are very quick and fast. And – and another thing I was talking to a Cell Physiologist who works with Raymond, who developed the –uh – a lot of inside for Raymond to develop the Fonar. He says if you correct the thyroid, the thyroid does the same thing. It helps with cerebrospinal fluid function.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow.

Dr. Bernd: So going back to this glycation, misfolding protein.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Bernd: One of the things we found with Raymond and others, its not sugar that causes misfolding. It’s actually the wrong thing. It is the polyunsaturated oils.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm.

Dr. Bernd: – in our diet that are the major contributors to misfolding aggregation glycation of – of the – uh proteins. And sugar is so vital for a chemistry to work. Actually my cancer patients, I have the double their sugar intake by giving them more honey, pure cane sugar because that retains the oxidative state of the NAD. That’s how I get to them to switch from the reduction state of NADH back to the oxidative state of the cell.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting.

Dr. Bernd: And we found – and it sugar – going back to my 18 uh – 1800,1867, there was two William MDs followed by name of Budd (B-U-D-D).

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Bernd: – from England and another Priori (P-R-I-O-R-I). Both of them at the same period we’re treating diabetes. And you know how they reverse diabetes?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhh

Dr. Bernd: They added extra sugar from glucose, fructose such as honey and bone broth or chicken broth and they were able to reverse diabetes. There was uh – recently there was another animal study on diabetes. They gave animals a chow of high sugar and another animal, uh –mice uh –low sugar content. And the ones with the higher sugar, they were able to measure and show that the island of Langerhan’s –

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Bernd: – in the pancreas was totally repaired and regenerated. They repaired and regenerated a new uh – function in that island of Langerhan’s to produce insulin again. So it was uh – so the is now showing that you know, we need fats; we need cholesterol coz cataracts are produced by low cholesterol diet.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting.

Dr. Bernd: – and statin drugs. And glycation is now contribute to – glycation is also due to low cholesterol and low sugar diet.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting. And now on a Paleo – go ahead, yup.

Dr. Bernd: No, go.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: On a Paleo template diet, you know, one of the things we’re doing is we’re really focusing on – again more high-quality saturated fats, whether it’s coconut oil, grass-fed, omega 3’s from salmon. You know, the good healthy fats are gonna be more stable and less and less lipid peroxidation be in the polyunsaturated. So, we’re doing that and then with some of these patients I’m seeing – I’m seeing a lot of diabetics, I do see diabetes reverse quite frequently with lower carbohydrate diet. I mean we see their fasting insulin above 10 and we get back below 4.

Dr. Bernd: Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  We see that re-established. So, is it because we’re changing the polyunsaturated fats in the fats? And that’s why we’re getting these results? Coz how are we – How can we get both results, you know, doing two different things? So what’s the difference? What’s the common variable?

Dr. Bernd: Uh – number one, I will tell you this – talking to these numerous Cell Physiologists at various universities such as Oregon, uh – working with Linus Pauling Institute over at Oregon State with the Tory Hagen and Joseph Bachman and all that. There’s no doubt and – and Bruce German out of UC Davis, and our Richard Beach out of NIH.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yup. Robert.

Dr. Bernd: Yeah. And Robert Ward of Utah. They all agree that we need to go back and increase our creams and butters –

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhm.

Dr. Bernd: – and saturated fats.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay.

Dr. Bernd: That is the most protective mechanism we have today against ageing and diseases. And think about libido and hormones, it’s all produced by cholesterol. Cholesterol produces pregnenolone.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Bernd: – progesterone, testosterone, and DHEA.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Bernd: The major hormones that we need on a daily basis that have the greatest brain protection and protection against cardiovascular disease and cancer, is all produced by cholesterol. By reducing the polyunsaturated levels, we’re noticing that there’s less glycation in misfolding protein. So that is the contributing factor because the unsaturated oils, even the omega-3’s, the fish oils are contributing to these problems because fish oils are uh – you know, cold-blooded animals.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Correct.

Dr. Bernd: And they – when you extract oil out of the fish, you give it uh- human.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Bernd: that has a 98.6 temperature, you’re actually creating oxidative damage –free radical damage, and that’s what happens. And so by reducing the – by increasing the saturated fats, the monounsaturated fats, like olive oil-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Avocado, yeah.

Dr. Bernd: you’re protecting the body. You’re protecting the body against oxidative damage. And that is the major contributing factor. And then second, yes, your carbohydrates, pastas and bread, you know, by reducing those, you know, will help, too.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Makes sense. There’s probably also an inflammatory component there, too. Because a lot of the refined sugar is – again, the refined sugar’s a little bit different and also a lot of refined grains, too, can have an inflammatory component as well, correct?

Dr. Bernd: There was a uh- one of the article done at the Stanford Lipid Chemistry Department and talking the Buck Institute – there, a Lipid Chemistry Department there. They found by reducing these polyunsaturated oils, you actually reduce inflammation. They’ve – one of the biggest contributors of inflammation is polyunsaturated oil.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So do you suggest having any nuts at all? Or do you say, no nuts?

Dr. Bernd: No. No nuts because nut- the other problem we have in food is the uhm – you know there’s a gene called GLO 2

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhm.

Dr. Bernd: And GLO 2 is a major anti-ageing gene and it’s part of the kidney. It regulates vitamin D in the kidney. And also helps with calcium absorption in the bone. Uh – so the GLO 2 is damaged by high phosphorus foods. If you look at all the nuts, predominantly most nuts, except for maybe macadamia and cashews, which have the lowest phosphorus levels.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay.

Dr. Bernd: Uhm- the higher the phosphorus versus calcium, that is what you wanna uh – you know, look at. Any foods that have a high phosphorus coz that phosphorus  pulls out calcium out of the bone and also causes kidney problems. Some of your kidney stones and gallbladder stones are caused by high phosphorus diets.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So we wanna have nuts that have lower phosphorus, higher calcium.

Dr. Bernd: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s gonna be your cashews and macadamia nuts. Is that correct?

Dr. Bernd: Those are the two. I remember working with Robert Atkins.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Bernd: And Robert, you know, started the Atkin diet.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Bernd: His only nut that he would ever use was the macadamia. He would travel to LA and I’d meet with him at natural product show, and that’s what he would be consuming a little bit. But I do very little of any nuts at all. Uhm – I did look up the ratio of cashew, they e seem to have the lowest amount of phosphorus to the calcium level and that seems to be okay then.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting. Well, while we’re on that topic, what’s your typical – what’s your typical diet like in a day? Just give me a quick little day in the light. What’s breakfast, lunch and dinner look like for you?

Dr. Bernd: Okay. You’re talking to the wrong person since I was part of the caloric restriction diet.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh.

Dr. Bernd: You know, I had to do that. But what I –

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  In general, though.

Dr. Bernd: In general, I – we started taking a natural uhm – prescription thyroid.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Bernd: Because I started realizing how important the thyroid really is.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Bernd: As you get older, you need to optimize your thyroid. For 30 minutes, I don’t eat anything, then I have an over easy soft boil of poached egg.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Nice.

Dr. Bernd: That’s my breakfast. Then I have 30 grams of collagen with magnesium, calcium and vitamin D and I put uhm – some anti-inflammatory compounds like Boswellia  and zinc. I always have calcium, magnesium and zinc twice a day, and with collagen and vitamin C. So then I go and I work out, I- I- I work at seven days. I do core exercise, flexibility exercise, you know, I was uh – I took gymnastics in college, so I do a lot of the headstand push up kind of things because that’s what I have to do when I was in college.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Great.

Dr. Bernd: Learn how to do balancing with my body. So that’s basically my program I eat very little throughout the day. Uh – once I take collagen in the morning, my appetite diminishes quite a bit. I kinda get a little protein and fruit in the afternoon. And in the evening, I’ll have a light soup with vegetables. I love chicken wings, I like ox tail, lamb shanks.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhm.

Dr. Bernd: All the foods that are very high in collagen are – chicken wings are number one, ox tail, lamb shanks uhm – anything with bone is actually good for you. And you know, I steam – I cook all my vegetables because when you cook vegetables, you actually break down cellulose, and you increase the-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Nutrients- yeah.

Dr. Bernd: – nutrients and absorption.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: People forget that.

Dr. Bernd: So – yup. And salad’s enough a good thing because we did a study and found that salads contribute to fermentation and gut inflammatory mechanisms and growth of bacteria because of the – anything that is like a green and it’s not cooked like kale and chard and chart, you have to boil 30 to 40 minutes in order to reduce the oxalic acid.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Bernd: The phosphorus level and increase the nutrients of vitamin K.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally makes sense. Now I don’t see a lot of excess of carbohydrate in your diet, number one.

Dr. Bernd: No.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Number two, are you also adding an MCT oil, too?

Dr. Bernd: I usually take a low MCT with coffee, but not always. I’m more of a __guy. I like to increase my butter consumption in the morning. That’s how I trained my – yeah. I trained the 84 Olympic team by giving them butter in the morning for a workout, before workout.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s amazing. How bad are these athletes diets before you get in there? I mean you work with Howie Long, LA Raider guys- what was their diet like, typically? And how did you change it?

Dr. Bernd:  Uh – Howie Long is actually an exceptional guy.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Bernd: He’s one of the smartest athlete I ever came across.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow.

Dr. Bernd: So his diet was not so bad.  He was a big uhm – you know, Italian guy.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Bernd: So he made a lot of uh- but the – the sprinters like the – Ron Brown,  the uhm – Evelyn Ashford they almost – 100-200 meters sprinters, their guy was so bad that one and I was so bad that one of my sprinters who  ended up playing professional football was Ron Brown.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Bernd: And he came to me because he’s always injured. He would have ice cream and uh – those Peanut Reese’s cups. That was his main diet.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, man.

Dr. Bren: And he was wondering why he was always injured. Uh – a guy named Robert Devans, uh –  four hundred hurler, who won against Edward Moses. Uh – we changed their diet into more of a fat and protein and less carbohydrate diet. And once we did that, we started using uh – collagen from Knox Gelatine at that time.  You know, uh- it, it really helped and we got more medal winners in ’84 and ‘88 than any other country.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow.

Dr. Bernd: Because of the change of the diet. Yeah. And the key was start the morning with protein –

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Bernd: Because that’s where you increase your metabolism and your thyroid. And if you don’t start the morning with protein, your body’s metabolism doesn’t work. It slows down and therefore, you increase your – you reduce the fat burning mechanism so your body starts storing more fat in the belly.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. Yeah. My recommendation is always 30 grams of protein in the first 30 minutes of waking up. That makes a lot of sense. And it’s amazing how this big disconnect with sports and athletes, that they just cannot think of food as calories to run the engine. They don’t think of it as building blocks to also help repair the bodies. So you get guys that are making tendons and ligaments out of basic crap on their diet.

Dr. Bernd: Yeah. And they don’t understand – athletes, they are you know extremely high-intense performers and they’re working out with heavyweight. The muscles grow but the tendons and ligaments do not grow.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s it.

Dr. Bernd:  So when you start increasing the massive amounts of training, you are increasing muscle, but you’re pulling on the ligaments and tendons.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Bernd: And you’re damaging the cartilage. That’s why collagen is the only protein that helps with tendons and ligaments repair. It’s the only food that we know that has that ability to repair tendons and ligaments.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And when those tissues get damaged coz they’re severely avascular, meaning they don’t have  a lot of blood flow. So as soon as you get injured, it takes forever to repair. And these guys lose a step or two, and they’re out of the league.

Dr. Bernd: Yeah. As a chiropractor, your gonna – uh, we started using infrared lights heat.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Bernd: Infrared- uh for infrared, uh – mats, anything to restore circulation to that area. You know LED dial. So any kind of uh- you know, ultrasound. Whatever we can do to increase the circulation. That’s the problem.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, awesome. That’s great. Today has been an awesome show. Lot’s of uh- brain candy here, today. Is there any other information that you wanna address for the listeners, today?

Dr. Bernd: Well again, like what you said, it’s uh – you know, it’s maintaining a good diet.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Bernd: You know, red- especially proteins an increasing your collagen consumption uhm – you know and – don’t overeat.  We tend to eat too much in one sitting. We can actually eat smaller meals throughout the day and maintain a metabolism to increase throughout the day. And the quality of food is important. Reduce the polyunsaturated, number one of ageing. Do not be afraid of sugar and honey and put it in your coffee or tea. Actually that keeps your – uh the brain requires the most amount of sugar than any part of the body and then the heart, because they’re – they’re utilized 24 hours a day. And oxidation of glucose is the main contributing factor for these organs to work.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting.

Dr. Bernd: And you know – and look at epigenetic, how genes get turned on and off, and we now know that uh – the amino acids found in collagen, the zinc, the magnesium

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhm.

Dr. Bernd: The vitamin D, the vitamin K, the green teas- they have the greatest components to helping prevent epigenetic damage.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love that. That makes so much sense. Now, Dr. Bernd, I ask this question for everyone. If you’re stuck on a desert island and you only can bring one supplement, herb or compound with you, what would it be?

Dr. Bernd: Oh, God. Definitely – being on collagen, I would have to say collagen.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I knew it.

Dr. Bernd: Because – And I would have to say Niacinamide would be my second most important one.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it. And that’s B3. Excellent. Well, very good, Doc. Is there any ways people can get in touch with you, if they want to get a hold of you? I know your website DrBernardFriedlander.com is another great to get a hold of you. Any other information for the listeners?

Dr. Bernd: Uh you can DRB.Friedlander10@gmail.com So it’s David – Robert Boy – period – Friedlander F-R-I-E-D-L-A-N-D-E-R one zero @ gmail.com

Now understand, I’m not really in practice anymore, I’m more in consultation, research end. And working with doctors like yourself.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally makes sense. You’ve been doing this for 40+ years. So good for you. You got a –

Dr. Bernd: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: massive encyclopedia of knowledge there. Well, I appreciate that. Thank you so much. And you, too.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Thanks a lot, Dr. Bernd. Great having you on the show. Look forward to having you back soon. You have a great day.

Dr. Bernd: Thank you very much. I appreciate that. Bye.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Thank you.

 


References: 

www.DrBernardFriedlander.com

Email: DRB.Friedlander10@gmail.com

Dr. Tim Jackson – Mitochondrial dysfunction, mold and MTHFR solutions – Podcast #124

Dr. Justin Marchegiani and Dr. Tim Jackson dive into a stimulating discussion about mitochondria, the enzyme MTHFR, genetic testing, and mycotoxin. Join them and pick up some valuable information as Dr. Tim Jackson shares his knowledge and expertise on gene SNPs, factors that affect them, the supplements he recommends, as well as the approach he implements to create a positive impact on someone’s health. 

Learn about the mitochondria’s function and discover its connection to the Kreb’s cycle and electron transport chain, both of which are naturally occurring chemical reactions in our bodies. Know and understand the different mitochondria-related issues like infections, low iron and low B vitamins. Get valuable insight on how these issues are tested, including the diet, nutrients and supplements to support the mitochondria. And lastly, gain helpful information about mycotoxin and find out different ways to prevent and get rid of them.

 In this episode, we cover:

4:11   Mitochondria

15:20   Bacterial infections

21:50   Iron and B12 issues

27:10   Glutathione

35:41   Gene SNPs (MTHFR, APO, PON1)

49:13   Mycotoxins

 

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Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey there! It’s  Dr. Justin Marchegiani. We got Dr. Tim Jackson back on the show. Really uh, excited to dig in to some MTHFR, some genetic testing. Maybe we’ll even talk about some mycotoxins. Who knows if we’ll have enough time to get it all. Doctor Tim, how we doing today?

Dr. Tim Jackson: I’m doing great, Evan Justin. How you doing’ sir?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wonderful, wonderful, man. Glad that we’re in touch and your back on the show.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah, it’s fine. It should be a good time today.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well let’s dig in, man. What’s new on your radar and functional medicine land?

Dr. Tim Jackson: You know, I’ve just been delving deeper and deeper into mitochondria. And you know- I am always up for myself whether through research, dealing with clients and patients. You know, what I can do to make everything else work better. And you know- almost always I find myself saying, “Well, make mitochondria work better.” And  so, looking at different therapies to, you know- protect mitochondria, to rehabilitate the cell membrane, uhm to make sure it has no optimal fatty acid composition-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm

Dr. Tim Jackson: To make sure environmental toxic load is reduced as much as possible so that the Krebs in TCA cycle can go on. And in making sure the two rate-limiting factors oxygen and ubiquinol or CoQ10 are present in adequate amounts. Uhm- one just quick aside, is that even low-level sleep apnea will affect your mitochondria negatively.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting. Alright. So we need oxygen. Sleep apnea is basically that delay where you just stop breathing while sleeping. And with sleep apnea, typically inflammations gonna be driving that. Is that correct?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah. Exactly, exactly. And it’s a self perpetuating type cycle where inflammation driving it want that- wants that inflammation gets going uhm- it has a self-perpetuating mechanism especially- I know this is a $64,000 word- cytokine or inflammatory molecules-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Tim Jackson: interlude six.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So true coz I notice every now and then I’ll have like a little sleep apnea episode like where I wake just kinda like gasping for air.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Uh-hmm

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And it’s typically at nights where I have like a glass of wine or maybe have something I shouldn’t have. I noticed that food allergen response really has an effect on my airway and I wake up with a hypoxic type of you know, gasping episode. So I know that inflammation and even food allergens can be a subtle you know, causative factor for that inflammation.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Right. Exactly. Anything that uhm- creates inflammation you know or contribute to the burns and turns out there, but what we called that, our static load-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, stress bucket

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah- your stress bucket, exactly.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Bingo.

Dr. Tim Jackson: And so you know, we might be someone that we you know, label as a hothead or they can’t tolerate stress. They may have a ton of physiological imbalances and all their ATP energy being diverted to that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. I always tell patients like yeah, physical, chemical, and emotional stressors. Physical could be too much or too little exercise. It could be chronic pain from an injury. You also have the chemical stressors, whether it’s food or infections or metals, or mold, or food allergens, or low stomach acid or etc. And then you have obviously, the emotional stress- relationships, finances, uhm- family, work. All of those stressors are like a little ball that go into that stress bucket. When that bucket starts overflow, that’s where your kinda allostatic is tapped out. And that’s where symptoms tend to tend to occur. And then typically allostatic, allopathic medical world, symptoms =  drug prescriptions. Then drug prescriptions have side effects, which cause more symptoms. So you’re in this vicious cycle where medicine actually tries to solve allostatic load problems or stress bucket problems by actually giving you more stress. And so in functional medicine world, we’re trying to actually take those stress balls out of the bucket, right?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Right. Exactly. The more stressors that we can take uhm- off our bucket, you know- we wanna try and eliminate as many stressors humanly possible. Uhm- and the ones that we can’t completely eliminate, we wanna certainly mitigate as much as possible.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it. And let’s go back into the mitochondria because basically the mitochondria is kinda the powerhouse of ourselves. It’s- you have what’s called the Krebs cycle, which is part of the mitochondria we you’re generating ATP, you’re generating these uhm- reducing agents call FADH 2 and NADH. And you’re basically grabbing hydrogen molecules-these electron to then bring those over to the electron transport chain so we can generate more energy. Would you mind talking more about the mitochondria and just how it connects into the Krebs cycle, the electron transport chain, and even uh, even glycolysis, too?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah. So when we think about mitochondria, we always talk about, “Oh, those are batteries of the cells”. They provide your energy source, your energy currency, the ATP. But what we’ve learned in the past 10 years is that they do so much more than that. Uhm, I actually have a 400 and something page e-book on mitochondria.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow

Dr. Tim Jackson: -that goes into details. And if, like I said it’s one of those dots that you know, you can connect pretty much every illness out there uhm- to some degree to mitochondrial dysfunction. And producing energy you know, fats, carbs, proteins, get broken down and go into the energy producing, the Krebs cycle. And uhm- you get oxy dephosphorylation and fatty acid burning in the mitochondria. But mitochondria- some of the other roles that they participate in, one is self sensing and signaling. So uhm- you know, controlling how they’ll wind up in the age of extracellular matrix for that little area that surround the groups of cells. Uhm, it’s important for growth factor uhm- sensing, uhm- immune function because a lot of times what happens is you know, people may test the account or the amount of immune cells that they don’t pass the activity of them. And a lot of our means, those require a lot of ATP. And uh, your immune function may not be working very well because you don’t have enough energy to heal. Healing takes a ton of energy. And so you know, if we have a lot of other stressors, the ATP or the energy currency is gonna be going down that pathway.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting. Now, how does the electron transport chain and the Krebs cycle connect in with the mitochondria?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah. So the mitochondria have an inner mitochondrial membrane and an outer mitochondrial membrane. And you have certain fatty acids in on those membranes. And what happens is that we inherit our mitochondrial DNA from our mom and you can have mutations in mitochondrial DNA. But more often, you have what we call mitochondriopathies, which is just a fancy term for damaged mitochondria.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Tim Jackson: And so anything that damages the mitochondria, and the most common things are environmental pollutants, persistent organic pollutants-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.

Dr. Tim Jackson: -and disrupting chemicals. Or we can have what Dr. Alex Vasquez calls uhm- a microbial mitochondriopathy.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmm

Dr. Tim Jackson: So you have an infection, maybe you go through a period of stress, a virus gets reactivated. Well, that inflammatory cascade that’s produced, even if you don’t know the name, you felt it before, that’s called a cytokine storm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Tim Jackson: And those inflammant there’s prone, inflammatory cytokines and anti-inflammatory cytokines. And when you have a lot of stealth pathogens or microbes and bugs build up in your body uh, there’s a constant low-grade level of inflammation. And our mitochondria are extremely susceptible to free radical damage. And that’s important point because the two antioxidants that we need to protect us or protect our mitochondria are glutathione which you know, we both love-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah

Dr. Tim Jackson: And you and superoxide dismutase. So if you have- I know you mentioned uhm you know, genetic- genetic testing but if you have certain uhm- polymorphisms which is like a minor version of a mutation, you may not make enough glutathione superoxide dismutase, or you may not recycle them to the reduced state which is how our body needs to use them. So uh, that’s incredibly uh, important because like I said, the mitochondria are very susceptible to oxidative damage, and if you don’t have those two antioxidants there to protect it, uhm- it’s really open to enemy fire.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally makes sense. And so, I’m just kinda comin’ back here for the energy production part. So part of the ATP part is, is through the uh, Krebs cycle as well as the electron transport chain, right?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah. Exactly. So electron transport chain is five complexes. And they basically play hot potato-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah

Dr. Tim Jackson: -with electrons. And uh, an important point for people to understand here is that, this is really biophysically driven more than biochemically driven. And what I mean by that is that your body uses photons and protons uhm- and light to uhm- create energy and increase ATP in the mitochondria. And at any time we can uh, tweak or uh, alter biophysical status of the cell or cellular machinery, then we can control multiple biochemical reactions.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it. And how about the Krebs cycle, as well? Krebs Cycle’s the same thing. We’re producing all these reducing agents to help basically bring those electrons into the electron transport chain, so they can be kinda tossed back and forth, right?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah. Exactly. So you know, protein, carbs, and fats get broken down into a single way so they can go into the Krebs cycle. And uhm- one other thing that’s uh- it’s just on the side you know, we talked about L- carnitine and you know, the benefit to have of carnitine.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes

Dr. Tim Jackson: Well, it transports fatty acid from the cell, the cytoplasm of cell into the mitochondria where you can uhm- burn fat and through process of beta

oxidation.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Tim Jackson: So if you’re deficient in L-carnitine, uhm- you’ll certainly be fatigued because you won’t be able to burn fatty acids.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I love it. And that’s called the carnitine shuttle. And I appreciate, your- your biochem background. You got a Biochem degree from NC State, right?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Uhm – NC State, definitely not. Wake Forest, the Wake Forest.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wake Forest. The Wake Forest, okay. Got it. Very cool. Oh, I appreciate Biochem. Brings me back to my undergrad days. I love it. The carnitine shuttle’s so important because basically your body is using carnitine, which is made from two amino acids, methionine and lysine. And it basically shuttles fat into the mitochondria so the fat can be burned up through that betaoxidiation pathway. Now, in my Biochem textbook that I have on the- the shelf behind me here, it was really interesting coz it even said in the biochem textbook that these amino acids methionine and lysine could be deficient in a vegetarian-based diet. So I’m like, this is quite interesting coz the sulfur amino acids are harder to get in these vegetarian diets. So really important. I see a lot of my sicker patients, especially faced with mitochondrial issues, aren’t getting the right fats, aren’t getting the right enough of these high quality sulfur amino acids, especially the ones that may include glutathione, glycine, glutamine, cysteine. And you mentioned earlier that you have to build that membrane, too which we know that the high-quality good saturated fats are gonna be building blocks. So I went off on a tear there but fats, amino acids, and the amino acids for glutathione, which all play into this whole mitochondrial thing, right?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Right. Exactly. So uhm- you know, we can burn uhm- you know, fat and protein. Uhm- you know, the carb advocates say you know, “we have to have you know, glucose or sugar.” But you know, people in the biochemistry, that’s not true. But yet, different environmental toxic can- and nutrient deficiencies can basically block the conversion of one metabolite of the Krebs cycle to another. So-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Tim Jackson: So you know, you have uhm- a few CoA, pyruvates, all those type of molecules malatase or malate. And the different compounds, metabolites like oxalites, etc. The enzymes that convert them may be impacted negatively by environmental toxicity.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes. Totally. And we need all these various nutrients to pump that Krebs cycle up. I mean, some of my, some of the nutrients that I put in my mitochondrial support, called mitochondrial synergy, is obviously the B vitamins are really important, L-carnitine as we already mentioned is really important. I also like Creatine.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I like Alpha Lipoic acid, I like a lot of the Krebs cycle intermediary nutrients like uhm, malic acid, succinic acid, uh the-

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah. Malic acid is good for aluminum detox as well.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, very cool. Also, I do a little Resveratrol-

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -which we know is really good for the electron transport chain and then uhm Alpha Lipoic acid even some Curcumin as well.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Oh, yeah. Curcumin is one of my go to- probably my first go to supplement for mitochondrial help. And it’s more of an indirect effect where it turned down the volume on enough kappa beta.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhm

Dr. Tim Jackson: Which is the uh, molecule coding or trying to read our pro-inflammatory genes.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting. So if we we’re trying to get someone’s diet dialed in, what would that diet look like to that average patient?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Uhm- You know, I’m gonna tell people to avoid gluten and dairy in general. Some people they get stressed out over what they’re gonna eat and so I don’t focus too much on the gluten cross-reactive foods. Uhm- but I try to restore and calm down inflammation in the gut lining first and repair the tight gap junction in the microvilli. And uh, I use the product- And again, I’m not connected to this product, but restore, restore4life.com. And it works really well in terms of healing the gut lining, but also helping to increase your overall micro biodiversity. And you know, we don’t typically think about the gut mitochondria together, but particular compounds that are released from bacteria in the gut. One is very inflammatory and it’s called lipopolysaccharide.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Tim Jackson: And it increases systemic inflammation greatly. And it turned on those inflammatory genes. So curcumin goes in, and it says, “Nope, must turn that knob back down.” And that’s why I like Curcumin coz it works on so many different levels of law as well as having antimicrobial properties.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: What are the big bacterial infections that you’re seeing in your clinic that are driving up the LPS? One of the things I’m seeing with under specific stool test, we’re seeing a lot of H pylori. I’m seeing a lot of Citrobacter, a lot of Pseudomonas aeruginosa.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yes.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: A lot of Klebsiella. Those are the big things that I’m seeing. What are you seeing, Doc?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Those are the exact same ones that I’m seeing. I’d also add in BlastocysticHominis.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, yup. Parasite for sure. Yup.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah and uhm- you know, I’d do the PCR testing which I’d have good results with.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Which one? GI map?

Dr. Tim Jackson: It’s uh, the DRG labs.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I use both. I run them both side-by-side.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah. And uhm- you know, I wasn’t happy when Genova merged with MetaMetrics and they changed one of their pages.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Terrible.

Dr. Tim Jackson: And you know, the price is pretty high, but I like DRG labs. I think it’s you know, more economical. Uhm-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: The problem with that is-

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yes, those are the common infections that I’m seeing.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Tim Jackson: You know, along with of course, you know, Candida. But one important point to kinda make about gut health is that one thing I see people forgetting is that they don’t reboot their secretory IGA.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.

Dr. Tim Jackson: And that’s the imm- mucosal immune system and the gut lining, the lining of the lung, the nasal passages, etc. And if you just go in, and kill off these pathogens are uhm- bad bacteria, they’re gonna come back if you don’t create an environment that is not conducive to their living.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it. And you’re doing uh- increase sacamai polarity to help bring up the IGA post uh- infection removal?

Dr. Tim Jackson: I don’t anymore. Occasionally, I do uhm- actually a chiropractor colleague showed me a study that look at those with leaky gut, and you know- some type or some level of neuro-immune syndrome. And he showed that you know- with leaky gut, if you don’t heal below first, taking something like uh-___may actually provoke an autoimmune type reaction. Now the study wasn’t very big but not the principle that people forget is that you know, if you cut your forearm, you’re gonna wanna wipe it off and put in uh you know, Band-Aid on to prevent pathogen entry.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Same type of thing in the gut you know, if you have a leaky gut, you start supplementing with probiotics. Yet some probiotics you know, heal the gut lining but it can lead through and create a huge inflammatory reaction.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I think it’s really important you have a sequence on how you treat infections. In my clinic, we always remove the foods first, like you mentioned. We replace enzymes and acids that’ll help digestion. We repair the hormonal system, whether it’s thyroid imbalance, adrenal, or female, or male hormone imbalances. We support the gut lining nutrients. Then we remove the infections. Then we repopulate probiotics. Then we retest. And I find that water tends to work the best. But I agree that you really have to do all the other things ahead of time so you have the best bang for your bucks when it is time to put the probiotics back in the system.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah. I just ran into a lot of people that’d been taken probiotics for years, even good quality probiotics.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Tim Jackson: And most people think that they just kinda go down there, and set up shop. Uhm, but they don’t realize it’s more of a transitory interaction with the gut associated lymphoid tissue. And that’s why you need to constantly you know, have the intake of bacteria because our ancestors that’s what they were exposed to you know, based on the soil.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. That’s why you do a lot of fermented foods. I recommend once my patients are really good and cleaned up, I typically throw a bottle of probotics at once a quarter, as long as they’re getting in good probiotics daily whether it’s with kimchi, or sauerkraut, or Bobby’s fermented pickles, or a low sugar kombucha, not the high sugar uh, alternatives that are- I might as well call them, soda.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah, exactly. Exactly, I agree with you.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Now on the DRG, though they’re not testing the individual bacteria molecules, though. I mean I’m seeing that they’re looking at H- pylori, though look at like some of the transient food allergen or food uhm, poisoning bacteria like Campylobacter or Shigella. But how are you looking at the other ones that I mentioned. The Klebsiella, the Citrobacter, etc.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Uhm, I’ll have to go back and look. But I thought that DRG tested for Citrobacter. I could be wrong on that one. But I do- to answer your question, uhm- provide- I go about addressing the gut similar to what you do. But uhm- I provide some broad-spectrum antimicrobial support. One of my favorites, which I know you’ve heard of, is uhm-Parsitan.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Uh-hmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: And uhm- So you know- again, a lot of these pathogens, like you mentioned, very specific supplementation. Uhm- but you know, some you can eradicate with you know, broad-spectrum biofilm busting and then antimicrobial.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. What’s your favorite biofilm buster?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Uhm, I use InterFase Plus.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm. Klaire Labs

Dr. Tim Jackson: From uh, Klaire Labs.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: And uh, I have pretty good results with that. Occasionally, I’ll have someone uhm, like I have this guy who’s a yoga teacher and help coach and he’s been doing detox, and this type of stuff for years. And he took uh, just the kind InterFase plus by itself had a very negative reaction. And because he has you know, such a high metal load underneath that biofilm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, the InterFase Plus I think is a EDTA chelating compound that so of the biofilms will use led in some heavy metals as a kind of a composition for that it so-

Dr. Tim Jackson: Right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh, some of the biofilms will use lead and some heavy metals as a kinda composition for that shield that hold up, right?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Right. Exactly. So they’re using calcium, magnesium-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Tim Jackson: You know that’s a – uhm- a great way for them to hide from the immune cells. Uhm- you know- on top of the bacteria doing the quorum sensing and exchanging DNA, people don’t realize exactly how smart they really are. Uhm- in terms of kinda manipulating our immune system.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hmm. And just to bring you back a little bit, but you made a couple of really good points early. You talked about oxygen.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And because oxygen is really important because we have various anemias, whether it’s an iron-based anemia, or a B vitamin based anemia. Both are really important for maturation, maturing healthy red blood cells, and helping red blood cells to carry oxygen. So we can’t carry oxygen and we can’t care nutrition, our mitochondria for the most part, screwed. So how are you addressing in your patients optimal iron and/or B12 levels. What are you looking at to assess that?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Well, you know I think it’s one of those things like, if we just started with a client right now, and we tested for food sensitivities, they you know- light up like a Christmas tree-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, of course.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Uhm- and so I tend to work on the gut to improve our iron absorption, uhm-  increase vitamin C levels- 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Uhm- to look at those things and look you know- the binding proteins as well. One thing uh- that I learned from Dietrich Klinghardt, he talks about uh- in different pathogens have a different effect on it. But at different stages of an infection, it may drive up creatine.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Tim Jackson: And at some point may drive down creatine. So you know, I felt to- that was kinda interesting. So I do see a correlation with a lot of pathogens. Uhm- you know, that uh, you know, correlates with these issues as well.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting. Yeah, my clinic typically the big three things that I see their driving iron issues are gonna be vegetarian diets.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Number two: female hormone issues that are driving excessive menstruation or hemorrhage.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Or number three: is just gut malabsorption. They have low stomach acid. They can’t ionize minerals, or they have leaky gut and malabsorption.  And they just can’t break down some of the, the heme- uhm- compounds in the food. So those are the big three that I see. And we try to work on all of those. Uhm- what are you seeing regarding the female hormone issues and low iron?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Uhm- you know a lot of times, I see, you know low thyroid function.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah

Dr. Tim Jackson: And with low iron, and obviously you know, I think I’m learning expression from Apex but they talk about, if you don’t think iron and you don’t fix insulin, you know- nothing else will work.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s a deal-

Dr. Tim Jackson: And so, you know, I try to look at you know, the transport proteins uhm- yeah, as well as like what you said, overall absorption and gut health and making sure that people don’t realize how energy intense breaking down protein is. And is a lot of times you know, it’s good beneficial to give the client. I found at least the uhm, essential amino acids on an empty stomach and luckily I just need a steak. I don’t realize that you know- what we’re giving them, hand delivering the bioavailable version of what so many reactions in their body uhm-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I agree. The thermic effect food on high protein compounds like steak is 30 to 50%, meaning- so 50% of the calories that the energy in that food just gets used up in breaking it down. So when you get free form amino acids, you’re basically giving 100% of it versus half of the getting used to pay the bill to break it down, so to speak.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Right. Exactly, exactly.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And how- go ahead, yeah.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Go ahead. No, I’m sorry.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And how are you looking at – how you diagnose B vitamin, like B12 issues, or low iron issues? What test are you running to assess that?

Dr. Tim Jackson: I will run it all on like the urinary iron binding capacity.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Tim Jackson: York and total iron binding capacity.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Uhm, B vitamin issues uhm- you know, if someone can do at least what LabCorp was doing I think they still are on RBC D12 and RBC folate-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh

Dr. Tim Jackson: If not, the lab in Germany. They used to have a branch in New Jersey, but they closed Health Diagnostics Research Institute and do a whole, like real time methylation panel that shows what your methylation pathways are doing with the nutrients you have at that specific time slot versus the 23andMe, which is just the genetic or epigenetic blueprint.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it.

Dr. Tim Jackson: And so, yeah. Uhm- in terms of iron, I look at gut health and think of that nature. And sorry, what was the last part of your question?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: B12. Any other B12 markers?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah. So I work at you know, the NMA and things like that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Tim Jackson: From the studies I’ve read like, for example, like many other markersuhm- B12 levels in most Asian countries are much, much higher than here. And there been no documented cases of adverse reactions to B12. The only thing I’ve seen clients is you know, if they have a polymorphism called COMT-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Sometimes too many metal donors a methyl group is just the carbon with three hydrogen.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup

Dr. Tim Jackson: And so all the methylation reactions, given to many metal donors they can get overstimulated.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it, man. Very good information. So just kinda recapping here just for all the listeners at home. I know were going really kinda down the rabbit hole. So we’re talking about the mitochondria, powerhouse of the cell. We need healthy fats in our diet. We need to keep the food allergens out. We need to make sure we’re infection-free so the LPS isn’t poisoning our mitochondria. We need healthy nutrients, B vitamins curcumin, house of the nuclear factor kappa beta, good hormones, good absorption, good iron levels, good B12. Is there anything you wanna add to that summary for optimal mitochondrial function for our listeners, Tim?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah. It’s just glutathione again.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, yeah.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Because it’s most the depressed on its ability to detoxify. But people don’t realize that it’s an- a natural antiviral that you have to have it for gut healing to occur. Uhm- it’s extremely important in immune function. It’s extremely important in terms of mitochondrial protection. Uhm- and that again, with the other antioxidant superoxide dismutase, that I’ve mentioned.  Now without getting too much into Biochemistry, and instead of kinda just chasten those individual markers, we can take different nutrients or nutraceuticals that increase in RF, too.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Which activates all of your antioxidant enzymes, and turns off lot of the pro-oxidant uh, signaling it’s going on. And so things that would activate that or things like sulforaphaneuhm, possibly turmeric and resveratrol. But uhm, thinking more of what can I do to affect all the different symptoms and systems, is kind of the approach that I take.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool. When you try to improve glutathione levels, do you try to just give some of the amino acids so the patient to make the glutathione? Or do you give the actual liposomal glutathione? How do you differentiate the two?

Dr. Tim Jackson: I use a lot of times, the neurobiological transdermal.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, got it.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Uhm- glutathione. Sometimes I’ll use the Apex Energetics Super OxiCell which has glutathione and superoxide dismutase. Uhm- but overall uhm- sometimes I will give people N-acetyl cysteine-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Tim Jackson: But for some reason, and you made delicious light on this for me, I’ve searched for answer for years- But some people including myself will respond negatively and have a huge metal stir up when they take N-acetyl cysteine but if I take glutathione, I’m fine. Which doesn’t make sense. NAC is the precursor to glutathione. And I’ve had this and a small subset of people like I said, including myself, back many years ago when I took uh- N-acetyl cysteine, you know- I had a major yeast flare and uh- you know, I had a metallic taste in my mouth, all sorts of negative things.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: The only thing I could think of clinically as the NAC is a pretty strong biofilm buster.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s some kinda biofilm release with the high amount of NAC. I’d be curious if it happens with cysteine uh- or glycine versus just NAC by itself.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Doesn’t’ happen with glycine.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting. So could be a biofilm issue. Wouldn’t be surprised.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Excellent. Well thank you for shedding some light on that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And no problem. And you mentioned the nerve stuff. The nerve uhm- 2 inhibitors there. I think it’s the nerve 2. Is it an activator- no inducers. Nerve 2 inducers that you mentioned. Green tea is also a big one. Milk thistle, pomegranate, even green coffee, ginkgo, olive leaf and then you mentioned the sulforaphane which will be primarily found in your cruciferous vegetables.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Right, exactly. And uh, you know- we’re talking about these acronyms, enough kappa beta and RS2.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Tim Jackson: But the take-home message for people is that, instead of chasing you know- just one marker and take one supplement for that, if we can try and control what genes are being read, we can have a lot more impact on someone’s health.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool. So let’s segue to the gene portion here. I mean, talked to then Ben Lynch last year in one of the conference that I went to. And he was talking about that everyone’s looking too much of the genes, do so much of the genes or the junk DNA. There’s only a couple of genes that really matter. Obviously his big focus is on the MTHFR gene, which is the methylenetetrahyrdofolatereductase gene SNP. What genes are- do you think are the most important? Coz you know when we look at these gene pages, whether it’s like genetic genie or livewello, you get like 50 pages. It’s super overwhelming and then one page says this, and the other page contradicts the other. So how the heck do you make sense of it all?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Well first of all, I’m gonna try to go back to my biochemistry background. You know, when all my you know- friends and everything are ready to get out and finish biology I was really getting into it coz I’m like, if you understand how the cell works, then you can really understand the body.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.

Dr. Tim Jackson: And uhm- so that- that’s you know, I kinda approach things. It’s looking at the biochemistry. Uhm- but you know, in order to do that you have to test for active biomarkers. So biomarker it can be anything. It can be like a physical measurement like blood pressure, or it can be your iron level, or your testosterone level, or any marker tested through urine sample, uhm- or a stool sample. And so uhm, you know- that’s kinda how I approach uh- thing. That is to look out- take into account the polymorphisms. But I don’t sit there and add them up and say, “okay this, that” It’ll drive yourself crazy, you know.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.

Dr. Tim Jackson: And we have hundreds of thousands of polymorphisms. You know, what are we gonna do when the report reaches 200 pages? 300 pages? I mean- the situation situation where you can’t see the forest for the trees and uh- I’m probably one of the people to blame for that coz is around 2010-2011 I started really talking about MTHFR after learning about it from Kendall Stewart who’s in Austin, Texas.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: But I look at uh- GSTM which is glutathione S-transferase.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Uhm GSTP, SOD which stands for superoxide dismutase.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Then when someone have the polymorphism, just so we’re clear, it may mean that the enzyme that tho- gene or that gene is coding for uhm- speed up or they may slow down.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: And it just depends on the specific polymorphism and uhm- you know, you have to look. So like one polymorphism is called CBS. It’s Cystathionine Beta Synthase or Synthatase. And uh- one of them uhm- speeds up the enzyme whereas another one slows it down. So you may have some canceling out of effects. But what you’re doing is looking in a blueprint. And I call them biochemical hiccups or potential biochemical hiccups. In your physiology, and it’s meant to empower people because then you can bypass you know, these genetic hiccups. Uhm, so to listen to the others that I’ve looked at uhm- one is the APOE, which plays a role-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Cholesterol

Dr. Tim Jackson: -in health as well as your ability to tolerate a Paleolithic type diet.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: It also plays a significant role in your ability to detoxify.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: And so uh- it really uh- I take a case by case but I tell people, you know- get the printer in me done, fine $9, a one time deal you never have to redo it. But in order to figure out what’s going on, like real time we need to do OATs test.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: – or methylation panel from that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Bingo.

Dr. Tim Jackson: – plus all the lab. And you know, what people understand is that you- you may not have any copies of MTHFR, that you can have what I call a functional polymorphism where those pathways are not working because of too much oxidative stress, or environmental chemicals, or nutrient deficiencies.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Malabsorption, gut issues.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Exactly. So lot of times people will say, “okay why are we working on methylation?” I’m like, “We are- We’re working on gut health first, which is gonna help unload the liver. And you know, if you have too many like a lipopolysaccharide-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.

Dr. Tim Jackson: It can back up phase 1 detox. So you know, the first step is really working on the things you have to work no matter what your goal is. And so whether someone wants to be pro athlete, have more energy to their kids or grand kids you know- their gut has to function well, just like their adrenal and thyroid.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very Cool. So let’s do a quick rapid fire and just go to the top 10 SNPs. What’s number one?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Okay. Uh- I would probably say uh- MTHFR

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it. And we have the-

Dr. Tim Jackson: And then there’s multiple versions of it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Basically, to give people a summary uhm- it affects glutathione production, the production of DNA and RNA, production of myelin that coats our nerves, uhm- the production of neurotransmitters, uhm- and growth factors. And then after that, I would list probably APOE. Then I would probably list the glutathione-related polymorphisms.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay.

Dr. Tim Jackson: And the superoxide dismutase polymorphism. Uhm then I would probably look at uh- the DDR.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup

Dr. Tim Jackson: Which the vitamin D receptor and I would include in there too the BCMO polymorphisms, which prevent the conversion of uhm- beta-carotene into retinoic acid.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah. And so- then you have to use you know, a more bioavailable form of vitamin A. And you know, people they’re so focused on Vitamin D, they don’t know that Vitamin A is really important for thyroid help and immune function, and gut health. Uhm- so you know, those are the ones that I really focus on. You know, if research comes up tomorrow- Oh, another one that I forgot is PON1, P-O-N 1.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: At- uh, greatly affects your ability to detoxify certain environmental chemicals. So someone has to be a lot stricter with their dirty dozen clean 15 beatings.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Especially if they have a glutathione polymorphism on top of it because you know, there- didn’t have such a reduced capability of detoxifying.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Alright. So we have our MTHFR. We have the APO: APOa1-2. We have the PON1. We have the COMT. We have the glutathione. We have the VDR, the vitamin D receptor. Does that sound about right?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yup. That sounds good to me.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And I just wanna make sure the listeners really understand coz the big one that’s out there is the MTHFR.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’ll just break it down here for a second. We have the C67787. We have heterozygous or homozygous; second we have the C67787. We have heterozygous or homozygous. Heterozygous is you have-

Dr. Tim Jackson: T70 and A2198C. Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup. A2198C, correct. And the big one is, I think the C is the bigger one of four. And four homozygous in that, that’s an 80% reduction. If for hetero, works only a 40% reduction. And it’s –

Dr. Tim Jackson: More of this- have affect different things-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Tim Jackson: And again, you know, if you get the report from MTHFR support, they have so many forms of MTHFR. But the two lucky that had been most researched are A1298C.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup

Dr. Tim Jackson: And the- you know, you hear about the C677T because it can lead cardiovascular events, strokes, heart attacks, and associated with elevated homocysteine. Uhm- but you know, you wanna really look at all the other factors that are involved as well. And so, uhm- with different polymorphisms, like I said before, you know- it may just be something that you avoid like in the case of PON1 you know, we need to avoid those certain foods. Uhm- NAT2 is another one that’s involved in the phase- liver phase to detox process called acidulation.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Tim Jackson: And uh- again, this is another example. Some of the NAT2 SNPs will speed up that enzyme. Meaning it labels things harmful but aren’t really harmful. And other forms will slow things down or- so that you miss potentially harmful compounds. So again, you kinda have to look- I look at groups of polymorphisms, overall. And again, if someone’s come to and they have mold practice being asleep in a room like mold, 39:40 listen, MTHFR is not gonna be the first think we’ll work on.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right. Totally.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Uhm- Yeah. And that’s the time, I approach them uhm, along with healing the gut. And really controlling off the distress because if often distressed inflammation is present, none of these goals can be achieved.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally understand. So with the MTHFR, we have the C and the homozygous, heterozygous for the C6778T or whatever- and then the A1298C. How much percent is reduced depending on whether it’s hetero or homozygous for each?

Dr. Tim Jackson: It’s different for different versions of MTHFR. Ah and uh-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: For the C and A versions.

Dr. Tim Jackson: What’s that?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: For the C and A versions-

Dr. Tim Jackson: Uh, Yes. So the C677T and the A1298C are the two that you’re talking about, right?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Correct. Correct.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah. So the A1298C doesn’t get much attention. It’s more associated with neuro-immune type issues.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Meaning autoimmune disorders, uhm- lupus, sjogren’s, rheumatoid arthirits. Those sorts of things. Uhm- it’s also associated uh- to some degree in the research with autism. Uhm- but research shows for both C677T form and the A1298C form uhm- you know, they are responsible for different things. And again, you haven’t even know there’s dozens of different versions of MTHFR SNPs. Those are just the ones with uh- most research behind them now. And so in order- you asked me how much is that enzyme function reduced, I forget the statistics- you know, varied by ethnicity. Uhm- but again, we have to factor in oxidative stress, uh- heavy metals, uhm- nutrient depletion.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.

Dr. Tim Jackson: People don’t take those into account. And I won’t name any names but there’s a lady that you know- wants you to do like $2000 a month of testing and you need if you have the polymorphism, you take these four supplements and that you have this polymorphism to these two and could wind up on like $600 a month of supplement. And you don’t even know if they’re expressing. And so a lot of the so-called uh- polymorphisms will be silent by doing things we discussed, such as controlling inflammation, improving gut health, improving blood sugar, optimizing iron and oxygen delivery. All those things are positive signals sent to our nucleus of ourselves.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So let’s say we have the homozygous of the C677T, so we have that 70 to 80% reduction in that enzyme. So let’s say we’re doing all the downstream things, right. We’re doing the glutathione, the diet, the- the,uhm- oxygen support, the B vitamins. What other supplements would we add in on the methylated nutrient side? Will we just be focusing on L- LMTHF Folate? We do methyl B12, or hydroxyl, or adenosyl B12? Will- what would you recommend on the supplement sites specific for those SNPs?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Well, first would be- And I know I sound like a broken record- supplements to go after inflammation. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it.

Dr. Tim Jackson: So Carnosine, maybe CBD oil. Uhm- but the- one of the two probably most important nutrients that are crucial for all these methylation reactions, there’s hundreds of them, are magnesium and zinc. You know- let’s not get away from the basic too far here.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Of course.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Uhm- they’re cofactors. That’s what they are, for enzymatic reactions in the body. And so now I work on repleting someone’s RBC magnesium and RBC zinc. I make sure that we have the other B vitamins like, B1, B2, B3-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Tim Jackson: B5. Uhm- and as far as B12, usually most people do pretty well in a combination of the Adenosyl N-Methyl. Like I said, some people who are really sensitive to metal donors uhm- will get overstimulated by too- too much folate and B-12. But one important point I make here- just, I’m not trying to scare people, but a lot of people coming to me with these reports, and uhm- you know they just want to take methylfolate and B12 and be done with it. But if you take those two nutrients in the presence of oxidative stress, you create something called proxy nitrite.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhh-

Dr. Tim Jackson: That is a very harmful compound to all of our cellular structures. And so order here is important. There is a method to demand. And so, you know- again, the other B vitamin cofactors B5, B6, biotin, uhm- you add in B12 and methylfolate is last.  And then for the transport of B12 to get into your cells, you need lithium orotate. Uhm- you know, lithium is important trace mineral.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hum-

Dr. Tim Jackson: And it uh- it has really good properties in terms of neural protection or brain protection.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting. So when we add all these nutrients in, we talked about the magnesium, the zinc, the B vitamins, when would you in particularly use methyl B12 versus the Adenosyl B12 versus hydroxyl B12? How would you apply that specifically with each patient?

Dr. Tim Jackson: So with Adenosyl, it works more on the mitochondria. So if you really have someone with a lot of mitOochondrial issues, I’ll use a lot of Adenosyl.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Methyl, I- what I do is you will start on methyl adenosyl and then later on, when they’re processing uhm- the B vitamins well, I’ll add in you know the methylcobalamin. As far as the hydroxy B12, you can check someone’s uhm– T-ADMA for nitric oxide status. Uhm, hydroxy B12 works on improving nitric oxide levels which-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it.

Tim Tim Jakson: – is you know, important self-signaling molecule in immune function and that’s your function.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting. Excellent. So anything else you wanna comment on regarding methylation? Do you feel you’ve done a good job hitting all the key points?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah. The fact- so many systems in the body and I wanna make an important point here, if you don’t remember anything else. Remember that if you have MTHFR, the more copies you have, the less ability you have to uh- metabolize folic acid. So the whole point here is that-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Folic acid will build up in your bloodstream and studies show that it will lower your natural killer cells, which is not good for fighting pathogens or for cancer risk. And so uh- I see a lot of OB/GYN putting people on folic acid even when they know they have MTHFR.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Tim Jackson: And it just goes back to a fundamental misunderstanding or lack of understanding of basic biochemistry. Because that’s the whole point of MTHFR that you cannot process the folic acid that’s added to things like grains and cereals.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. That’s the key thing is, you gotta make sure you’re at least on LMTHF Folate uh- or Calcium Folinate. But again, if a supplement company chose to put folic acid in there, they’ve really made a statement that they’re undervaluing the raw material that they’re putting in their supplements. So that’s super important and like you said, the refine fortified junk food, is what’s gonna have the folic acid in. It’s gonna be the orange juice, the bread, the grains, that kinda stuff.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Right. Uh and real quick there’s the condition uhm-

called cerebral folate deficiency, whereby you cannot get folate into the central nervous system uhm- in the cerbrospinal fluid uhm- I know there’s- I think one maybe two lab tests for it. When I learned about it was actually a research project by Doctor Quadro’s State University of New York. And uh- different you know, experts or authority years in the area will say you know different things about it. But uhm- with cerebral folate  deficiency, most of the time the way someone supplements is using Leucovorin which is prescription folinic acid.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Tim Jackson: So we have about folic acid. Well one step more active than that is folinic acid. And I asked Dr.Quadros, “why do you guys use this in the study, that they have MTHFR why not use different–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah

Dr. Tim Jackson: Or when I used up on your you know- L-5-MTHF directly and he said, “One, it was just the way to study was written and two, there’s some potential neurotransmitter neurological uhm- functions that can be improved with Leucovorin versus uh- L-5-MTHF”. But you basically have to hypersaturate the receptors so that you can get transport across the brain and this affects the central nervous system greatly.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool. Excellent knowledge bombs there, Dr. Tim. I wanna give it here briefly, man. I wanna talk about mycotoxins. And mycotoxins are gonna be the toxins produced by mold. We’ve talked about this in our previous podcast that we did. So please refer back to the first podcast. But mycotoxins are really important. Obviously the first line of defense. I’m not gonna put words in your mouth. Correct me if I’m wrong. But get out of the environment where the mold is. That’s probably number one. And number two is it will involve other steps. I wanted to kinda get you a breakdown of what people should do outside of the first step, environmental removal uhm- next to kind of eliminate and reduce mycotoxin exposure.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Well, yeah. Number one you gotta get rid of the moisture source.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Tim Jackson: So depending on where you live, like I was in South Carolina, I have to have two digimon of fires underneath the house. And I have one running upstairs even during the winter. And uh- you know there’s gonna be mold everywhere. But what happens is in a lot of people think mold is only in older homes. But with new homes, they try to build them to be so energy-efficient that it only leaves a few species of mold in the house. And you know it’s called niche exclusion like in the gut. If you only have a couple species of good bacteria, you can have an overgrowth of those good bacteria and undergrowth of- or deficiency of the others. And uhm- with mycotoxins, we can do a few different types of environmental test. The ones at your hardware store are not accurate. But uh- typically that will come back. There’s one test called an RMI.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: RMI. Yup.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Capital R-M-I. Uhm- and there’s uh- you know, it’s not really new anymore but it’s called the HERTSMI-2 Test. And this third one I’ll mention is the Realtime Lab. They offer environment test. And so wanna test your environment and you’ll be surprised because I know it takes darkness and a moisture source and most people don’t to their ductwork clean enough. And these mycotoxins are very low molecular weight proteins. So most air filters will not get them. But uh- you can have someone who’s certified in testing come in, which I did. And then type up a pretty long report and they list the species that you have and what’s important here is that there are certain genetic glitches. And this is not on a 23andMe but there’s one called the human leukocyte antigen. And there are many of those, but one has to do with your ability to detoxify mycotoxins. I happen to have the worst one called the dreaded genotype. And that means –

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, man.

Dr. Tim Jackson: My immune system does not tag mycotoxins when I ingest some, whether it’s through food or breathing. And so they build up in my body. And you wanna talk about something that would disrupt every other system in the body, you can have the male- you can have a testosterone level of a thousand and a great free testosterone level. But if you still have mycotoxins, you’re gonna feel horrible. Your- five different types of your immune cells are gonna be turned off. And that’s just from one mycotoxin called the gliotoxin. And you know, it affects- causes system wide chronic inflammatory response syndrome. And even after the removal of the stressor, your immune system may still be reacting strongly. And so you can kill the mold but a lot of people will use things like ozone and ozone industrial mold. But it releases dead mycotoxins which are immunogenic or stimulating to the immune system. So the most reliable method I’ve come across is using biodegradable enzymes.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: It was expensive. It was about $10,000 but I’ve heard of people spinning up to 70 grand per mold for mediation. So you wanna really work with someone who is reputable and you know, who’s not out just trying make money and failed when you did everything to tear down your house. So the- I bring up the genetic glitch that can be tested through LabCorp and there’s five different levels of that genotype. And 25% of the population has one. So what I’m getting at here is that, you can have an allergy or sensitivity to a mold, but the issue that I’m really focusing on here is the inability to detoxify mycotoxins. And that’s where ___ comes in.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Tim Jackson: We have the dreaded genotype as well. That’s why he makes bulletproof coffee.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Coffee, nuts, grains. Things like that are gonna be resources of mycotoxins available.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Big deal. Uh, but they’re not part of that 25% of the population that have the genetic glitch. And so these things may be- be very small, very low molecular weight, but they can disrupt everything from hormones to brain function, to immune function. Gut health is another one, if you have a client or patient who’s gut won’t heal. I won’t get into why that it has do with the hormone help alpha-MSH. But the mycotoxins- so we talked testing the environment.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Test your body level, there is a urine mycotoxin test RealTime Labs. But there is a kicker to it. You want to do a glutathione push you know, you’re hooked up to the IV and they just push some glutathione or taken a large oral bowl of some glutathione, about 30 to 45 minutes before collecting your urine to this test. Because if I were to take that test, and I didn’t do that, it would come up with low levels because I’m a porch greeter. It’s sort of the same thing as metals.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Metals. Yes

Dr. Tim Jackson: So when I take little time and then check my mycotoxin levels, it will tell me where I am. And uh- the follow-up testing is much cheaper than the original test, which is pretty expensive. But we want check your body burden to see how aggressive we need to be in terms of getting each mycotoxins out. So how we get them out? We bind them up in the bile and/or we use a protocol called the lipid exchange protocol. And it can be a combination of oral and IV fatty acids. And all you’re doing is you’re rehabing the cell membranes. And when you do that, that allows talking to move out and nutrients to move in. and it’s a high-fat diet, uh- moderate protein diet, low carbohydrate diet because you’re trying to reduce positive stress in the cell membranes. And a combination of that, the Patricia- It’s called the Patricia Kane protocol or lipid exchange protocol, along with using binders, works really well. Uhm- you may also have an infection of those mycotoxins. So they may have created a systemic infection. Then you would have to take either herbal, some sort of neutraceutical prescription, antifungal to get rid of that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So looking at all the different options we have, right. We’re decreasing the moisture, the humidifiers, we’re maybe using a mold remediation service that uses some enzyme therapies to help clean things out.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: There’s some decent air filters out there that are better that will at least help partially. Uhm- you mention the glutathione, right. Especially like a challenge when you test it with Realtime. But you could probably use liposomal glutathione as well. What about- And you mention the bile, right. So eating fats gonna be helpful coz that will stimulate the bile to release your- stimulate your gallbladders release bile, which is like changing that the gunky oil. What about modified citrus pectin? What about zeolite? What about activated charcoal? What are your thoughts on those things?

Dr. Tim Jackson: From my friends who are certified in the Shoemaker Protocol.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Shoemaker uses a cholesterol medication called cholestyramine.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Tim Jackson: The issue with that is that-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Super expensive.

Dr. Tim Jackson: You get it sometimes it is very expensive. But two, it’s gonna bind up all your good nutrients.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: And it usually constipates you. And most people with bile issue’s already constipated.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Uhm- But you- that medication and also have aspartame in it. Uhm- for $200 and something for a month supply, you can get it compounded. Uhm- there’s another prescription called Welchol. And again, these are both cholesterol medications.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: And it’s interesting because they hand them out like candy for high cholesterol. But when my clients need them for binding mold, they look at you like, “Oh, no! we would never do that.”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I know. It’s crazy.

Dr. Tim Jackson: But if question about modified citrus pectin and act with a charcoal-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: What about bentonite clay?

Dr. Tim Jackson: What- bentonite clay. Yeah. The one that uhm- the KIinghardt Community, the Biotoxin Community is kind of found to be most efficient. It’s from a nutraceutical perspective. It’s TakesumiSupreme .

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Which is this uhm- you know, from bamboo tree.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Bamboo shoots. Yup.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah. And so it’s pretty much like activated charcoal. Uhm- but there’s also another uh- process and I’ll try to find the link whereby uhm- while you’re trying to detoxify the mycotoxins, you neutralize them so they’re less reactive in the body. And someone figured out that uh- specific type of Hawaiian Noni Juice.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:Ahh-

Dr. Tim Jackson: -like that. Uh, I have no connection to the company but you know, I’ve heard great things about it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: How about just juicing the herbs? I know what uh- I know you’re referring to Dr.

Dr. Tim Jackson: serves no way to know your friend it to Dr. Michael Leibowitz. He has a talk, Takesumi Supreme. He also has the Noni Supreme. Do you prefer the Noni as well to have those same effects?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Uhm- I have not used Noni a lot, to be quite honest. And so, you know- Again, my go to is uhm- the Takesumi Supreme uhm- or Modified Citrus Pectin, uh- you know, Pectasol, uhm-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Tim Jackson: But you can also use, like you said, the bentonite clay. I just don’t have a tox of experience using it. And I just kinda you know, lots of times- It’s hard to research in all these different areas. So you kind have to stick to some of your-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.

Dr. Tim Jackson: -routine. Uhm-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: How about Zeolite?

Dr. Tim Jackson: So that’s pretty much what I do.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: How about Zeolite, Doc?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Oh, Zeolite. Sorry about that. Well a lot – as you know, a lot of uh- different companies sold Zeolite that- It’s contaminated –

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Tim Jackson: – with aluminum. Uhm- and I extense up my cells.Uhm- I won’t name the company but uhm- five of their models went out, they took it. There is a product that- and I’m not gonna mention it coz I haven’t fully- I don’t feel fully comfortable mentioning it, but it is a certain type of Zeolite that very public figure recommends to get into the cell. But it’s also sold by another company in another name and it- supposedly has testing to show that is not contaminated with uhm- aluminum. Uhm- and it’s supposed to be small enough this- the biophysical structure is supposed to be small enough that it can cross over into the cell.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool. Awesome, Doc. You drop some serious knowledge bombs here. Well, to save everything else for a part two. I love it. But last question here for you. If you’re stuck on a desert island, what’s the one supplement you- you bring with yourself?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Curcumin

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Curcumin

Dr. Tim Jackson: Hands down.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Curcumin. Love it. Hands down. Kinda help modulate that nuclear factor kappa beta, right?

Dr. Tim Jackson: That’s right. There you go. You got it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it, Doctor Tim. Well, anyone listening here, Doctor Tim is available worldwide for Skype and phone consults. His Facebook is healyourbody.org He’s got a great blog post there. He’s also been on lots of other podcast like myself, bulletproof radio, etc. etc. So he’s a knowledge wealth. Dr. Tim, thank you so much for coming on the show. We appreciate the knowledge bombs. Anything else you want to leave our listeners with here today?

Dr. Tim Jackson: I would say that uh- the general concept is just because you can’t see something, doesn’t mean it’s not having a tremendous impact and effect on your health. And that applies to two things I deal with daily. One, EMF.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhh.

Dr. Tim Jackson: You know- uhm, electro magnetic pollution.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: And the other one is mycotoxins. So two things that we can’t really see, but are having a tremendous impact on us. I know we don’t have time to get into this, but EMF have been shown to activate something called the cell danger response.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oohh.

Dr. Tim Jackson: And basically hijacks all the workings and uhm- metabolism of the cell. And so uhm- an interesting fact for Dietrich Klinghardt points out is that people that are in high EMF environments or non-native EMF environments who have mold. They get sicker because those vibrations and frequencies send signals to the mold to produce more mycotoxin and and more potent mycotoxin.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I think it’s’ stronger. Yup.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally make sense. We gotta be inflammation detectives.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Awesome.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Absolutely. You gotta understand what you see and understand what’s happening of the cell and how to fix the cell, you fix everything else coz you gotta remember all your different organ systems are made of cell.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well it’s really great to have you Biochem background here in the show, Doctor Tim. Thank you so much and you have an awesome day. We’ll talk real soon.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Awesome. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Thank you.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Alright. Take care.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Bye.

 


References:

www.healyourbody.org

www.restore4life.com


The entire contents of this website are based upon the opinions of Dr. Justin Marchegiani unless otherwise noted. Individual articles are based upon the opinions of the respective author, who retains copyright as marked. The information on this website is not intended to replace a one-on-one relationship with a qualified health care professional and is not intended as medical advice. It is intended as a sharing of knowledge and information from the research and experience of Dr. Justin and his community. Dr. Justin encourages you to make your own health care decisions based upon your research and in partnership with a qualified healthcare professional. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. Dr. Marchegiani’s products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. If you are pregnant, nursing, taking medication, or have a medical condition, consult your physician before using any products.