The Nuts and Bolts of Your Mitochondria – How to Enhance Mitochondrial Function | Podcast #349
Have you ever thought about what powers are inside your body? In this video, Dr. J and Evan talk about mitochondria and how to boost them.
When we talk about your body’s powers, the easy answer is nutrients, of course! Our body transforms those nutrients into energy, and it’s that energy that boosts the cells in our body. All types of cells have small generators called mitochondria that, in many ways, are their sources for life. Mitochondria are the only part of the cell where our basic life requirements — food and air — are combined to make energy in a process known as the Krebs cycle.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani
In this episode, we cover:
1:30: The role of creatine in mitochondria
6:34: Energy pathways
14:47: Cell Danger Response
16:07: Citric Acid Cycle
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mitochondrial function, your mitochondria, little the powerhouses in your cell and they help generate ATP which is the cellular currency of energy so to speak. And we’re going to talk about natural ways to improve mitochondrial function, Evan, and how we doing today, man.
Evan Brand: Doing really well. I think first, let’s dive into some of the big assaults that we have as a modern society on mitochondria. And that could be anything from viruses, bacteria, parasites, gut infections, pesticides, herbicides, heavy metals, plastics, phthalate’s, the BPA, the BPS, flame retardants, nonstick chemicals, car exhaust, air pollution. That I miss any I mean.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Like you hit a lot of I would say being sedentary. There’s a lot of mitochondria in your muscles. And if you don’t do enough, you’ll put enough force to those muscles, they will atrophy. And so just not doing enough about creating enough stimulus on your body. That could definitely we can and decrease your mitochondria in your muscles. So, I would say, sedentary and in active resistance through your muscles.
Evan Brand: OK, OK that’s a good point. That’s a good point. So, you’re saying that, like, just in general, you have to have some level of physical stimulation physical activity to keep the mitochondria working. I guess it’s kind of like an old car that you’ve sat there…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: All your muscles at least. Yeah, ’cause if you decrease, you know your muscle levels via just atrophy due to lack of use. Yeah, your muscles will shrink absolutely and that’s your mitochondria will shrink for.
Evan Brand: Sure, what about creatine? Do you know anything about the role of creatine in mitochondria? ’cause I know when I’m taking creatine, I just I feel stronger? Obviously, there’s creatine’s used a lot in like bodybuilding world, but there’s gotta be a mitochondrial mechanism there because I’ll tell you I feel like. I can lift, you know, at least a good 1020 pounds heavier on particular exercises with creatine in my system.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, me crazy definitely has an effect on growth hormone and improving growth hormone stuff that will help with muscle. Creatine is like instant energy for the muscle. So, it’s it’s there. It’s ready to be used right away in that first 10 seconds or five, five to 10 seconds of muscle use or like explosion movement through that muscle. So, that definitely plays a role in muscle. I’m not sure how it plugs in 100%. I see ’cause really you know with ATP right in the mitochondrial function? If you look inside the mitochondria you have glycolysis and then you have the electron transport chain. Or I’m sorry, you have the Krebs cycle citric acid cycle and that plugs into the electron transport chain. So, glycolysis that’s going to be utilizing the carbohydrate in the muscle right glycogen in the muscle. Fast immediate source. I think creating plugs into that top part. And then you have the Krebs cycle citric acid cycle, where B vitamins, magnesium. All these different things kind of plug into that and with that. With the citric acid or Kreb cycle, that didn’t mean the same thing. Essentially, they’re grabbing hydrogens, right? So, there it’s it’s a reducing agent, so it’s just grabbing reproduce. Reduction is a gain in electrons and so you have NAD goes around. Then it grabs NADH so you get 3 NADH and I think 1FADH2 so you have FADH. And it grabs another hydrogen and that becomes FADH2, and so it’s grabbing all these hydrogens. And then it’s essentially bringing those hydrogens downstream into the electron transport. Jane and Beta fatty acid oxidation there and so yeah, I think you generate was at 36 to 39 ATP through the Krebs cycle and the electron transport chain.
Evan Brand: Unless you’re in like chronic fatigue stayed, this cell danger response, and I think you’re spitting out something low like 2 maybe 3 ATP. I’ve read about this cell danger response. They just call it HDR in the literature, but it talks about how. The cell danger response, could be initiated by trauma or a car wreck or even mold exposure or tick-borne illnesses, or viruses. There’s a lot of you know, Epstein Barr. You’ll see the link between like mono and chronic fatigue. It said that these people are in this state of just a low power output, or even if you have the nutrients, you’re just not generating the ATP with some I don’t know if it was Caitlyn or somebody that you and I had looked into where there was a talk on this about. How the w the the ATP was literally in the single digits. The low single-digit output in some of these states. So, the message here is that for people that have chronic fatigue, you got to realize there is a mitochondrial component to this. Why don’t we talk about testing a little bit? The main thing that you and I are going to look at is going to be the organic acids. I know there are some other tests out there. I’ll admit I’ve had clients send them to me such as the mito swab. I’ve not run the model swab. Personally, I don’t know enough about it to speak on it much, but I’ll just say that it does exist. I believe it is a a mouth swab and it’s probably looking at just a couple generic markers in the saliva. But we like to use the organic acids test because, as you mentioned, there’s the Krebs cycle metabolites on there. We can look into the supinate or what some people call succinic acid. You’ve got the malic acid. You’ve got fumarate. There are other markers on there, and we we see when people have talks and exposure. Like I said in the beginning, the heavy metals, the mold, the pesticides will see those. Mitochondrial markers go up. And the higher the numbers go, generally, the more tired someone is because that indicates more damage to that Krebs cycle. So, the oh is huge, and then obviously we’ll look at stool too. Now the stool test you don’t measure like the stool tests we’re running. You’re not measuring mitochondrial function, but I look at it in a roundabout way. Meaning if you have all these gut infections producing toxins that could be damaging mitochondria as well, so we know that when we clear the gut out, we see the mitochondrial function improve.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. Yep 110%. I want to just put something on screens. People can see it here I guess is really helpful.
Evan Brand: Have you seen or heard about that my to swab before? Have you seen anybody send you those?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I have, I’ve ran up. Fulham, it’s kind of a binary test. It gives you a result my the issue I have it’s not a lot of actionable information. It’s like OK, you know there’s some issues there, but then now what’s, what’s the remedy that you’re going to plug in from a diet lifestyle supplement? Toxin reduction execution right? What’s the next step on it? So that’s the problem with some. Of those tests, I always. Look and I always ask well what’s the corrective action based on the test showing uses a concern.
Evan Brand: Yeah, yeah
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That makes sense.
Evan Brand: That’s the problem with a lot of them like I’ve seen a lot of these stool testing companies. Same thing there’s like so much data. Well, this percent of this bacteria and this percent of that. It’s like, what do I do with that? Is that an infection? Is that not an infection? So you and I’ve seen the same problem in other categories of health tests do.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. I want to show a couple things on screen here? Just so it’s crystal. Where the mitochondria is and how all these different energy pathways plug in, I think it’s important I’m going to pull it up here on screen in just a second so people can see it.
Evan Brand: Yeah, people listening on audio, they’re going to be lost. So just look up Doctor Justin YouTube page and you’ll be able to view some of this stuff. Some stuff, like mitochondria, gets a bit geeky. The the main thing here is toxins are a big factor in damaging this cycle and you gotta get toxins out. Reduce exposure where you can and we can run actually chemical test on your current too so we could talk about that in a minute.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely, and so if you look here right. Do you have the mitochondria right here. Some middle part, the mitochondri. The outer part is the cytosol. So, from what I understand, like creatine is going to plug more into the cytosol and glycolysis, OK, but then you’re going to see you get about two ATP which is adenosine triphosphate. And this gets broken down into ADP and you get energy right? And so, you have glycolysis which generates a little bit of ATP 2. And creatine to plug more on the outside then that goes into your mitochondria. Now you have the Krebs cycle and the electron transport chain electron transport chains part of also the beta fatty acid oxidation. That’s how you burn fat for fuel. OK, so Krebs cycle that churns around twice, and essentially what you’re doing is you’re gathering NAD and FADH2. NAD&FADH are grabbing hydrogen so and a design to grab a hydrogen making NAD. HFADH is going to grab a hydrogen, making FADH2, so I think you’re going to grab it’s like two or three. NADH is, and then one FADH2. And all those hydrogens then go into the electron transport chain here and this is where you generate most of your ATP. And again, what comes out, oxygen comes and this is why, if you’re like anemic right? And you’re not carrying oxygen. Well, that’s why you’re going to get tired and this is going to have an effect on your thyroid and your adrenals because the mitochondria is important for energy at all levels. And so if we have anemic issues or were inflamed because inflammation is going to make it harder to carry oxygen all. And also nutrition, because this electron transport chain, when we run the organic acid test, we can look at citrate, malate, fumarate, succinate. These are important metabolic essentially inputs into the Krebs cycle that correlate with certain nutrients like amino acids, alpha-lipoic acid, magnesium B vitamins, and so we can get a window on how this. Krebs Cycle was functioning based on the organic acid testing at some of those compounds and then all sister connotate citrate, right? These are really important, and then electron transport chain we can get a window into things like carnitine and Co Q10 ’cause they also play a major role in the electron transport chain. So we get a good window with how the mitochondrial function functioning by looking at the B vitamins and looking at a lot of these nutrients and so essentially things that can impair this. As you mentioned, pesticides. Heavy metals, mold toxins, antibiotics, and all these things have a negative impact. But that’s kind of how things look, so we have. Glycolysis is the first part that then goes into the mitochondria, and then we have Krebs cycle and electron transport chains. These are the big three. If you can kind of zoom out and see how it looks and how it makes sense. That should hopefully make more sense, so on that front. Any question that, Evan?
Evan Brand: Well people listening to that. They’re going to be like wow, this sounds like a really crazy rare problem, right? This must be just rare. This must be like a one in million case and I would say. Not going to say 99. I would say 90% of the people we work with. I see some level of mitochondrial dysfunction or damage either on the chemical profile test, so that’s something I alluded to earlier. We can run chemicals so we can look at gasoline. We can look at xylene. We can look at phthalates, all sorts of organophosphates. 24D is a major herbicide. I still see people at Lowe’s and Home Depot in the Garden Isle buying grass seed. That’s called weed and feed, weed and feed is a grass seed mixed with three different types of herbicides. It’s 24D, I believe it’s dicamba and glyphosate. Wait, I could have mixed one of those up, but either way, it’s three different chemicals, very toxic substances mixed with grass seed, and that’s like people just buy it and they don’t think anything of the term weed and feed. That means you’re going to be killing all the good stuff in your soil and poisoning yourself at the same time. It’s just not smart. So this mitochondrial thing. My point was, this is not rare, like when you show that image and people see that like. Oh no, that’s not happening to me. It’s like it happens every day, all day. I had mitochondrial damage, my latest test shows our mitochondria are much, much better, but I had significant mitochondrial damage from my mold exposure.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very interesting, I want to highlight one thing here so you can see creatine does primarily exist here in the cytosol, right? So if we zoom out, right cytosol is outside of the mitochondria, right? Right glucose, pyruvate here, so just so you guys can highlight here, creatine does go from the cytosol and it can go into the mitochondria. So, we did talk about creatine. It does primarily happen more in the cytosol outside the mitochondria, and it can go in via this. Mi-CRT kind of transport. Compound, so yeah, so creatine is a compound that we talked about that goes outside but can also go inside the mitochondria. To yeah Doctor Neil Nathan.
Evan Brand: That’s awesome! Doctor Neil Nathan did a huge thing for 155-page slide show that people can look up just called the Cell Danger Response. It’s very complex stuff. There’s going to be maybe a few geeky on that. People want to dive into that, but for your average person there’s not much takeaways built into that. But if you want to look into more of like the biochemistry side of it, then then you could look at it. But I think the big summary is it’s all. It’s all the Chemicals, and this is a relatively new problem I mean we face now over 80,000 chemicals are in the environment. Depending on what number you read, there’s only a small amount of those that are even tested. You’ll see stuff in Europe like oh Europe has banned these chemicals and makeup and personal care products, but the US was very far behind. And if you look at the environmental working group, they have a water testing report. You can look at and you can plug in your zip code. I mean just the amount of trihalomethanes’s pesticide herbicide residue pharmaceutical drugs that are in the municipal tap supply in your city are massive and you’re getting hit with this all the time. If you go to a restaurant and you eat rice, what do you think they make that rice with? They make it with tap water so you’re getting exposed to it that way too, which is why if I go out to eat, I don’t really do rice that often anyway. But if I do it, It’s going to be at home with good, clean filtered water.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I like it. Anything else you want to say on that, so obviously get the toxin exposure. Super important hydration obviously really important to anything else you want to say on that?
Evan Brand: Yeah, you hit you hit the the Co Q10. You mentioned some of the markers we’re going to look at on the oak test, so we will use those. We have a formula. I believe you’ve got 1/2 mines called my to boost. It’s essentially like a multi for the mitochondria with all the Co Q10, ribose, carnitine B vitamins. So, when we see mitochondrial dysfunction, we can supplement that and we tell people this is a band-aid for your mitochondria. This is not some of it is the root cause, right? If you just are simply low and depleted in Co Q10, one could argue supplementing Co Q 10 is the root cause, but in reality it was usually. Oh here we go. Let me see if I can share this slide with you. Mainly it was the the toxins that led to this so let. Me share my screen really quick.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And there is going to be because we do make Co Q10 on our own via the mevalonic acid pathway. And of course, as you get older, just like stomach acid, you’re gonna make less of it and so there there could just be a depletion based on age as well.
Evan Brand: Does that show up at all on your side? The video is that screen share show.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Try again.
There’s like a little bell there. Let me let me pop it up again. How about that, yes? Oh yeah, let me let.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Me highlight it, go ahead.
Evan Brand: Yeah, there we go. So, this is this is kind of what I was alluding to, and many many other people may have different ways to look at this, but this is from Neil Nathan. He had a great paper on this cell danger response and it just shows at the top here. Basically, everything I already mentioned like a flame. Heavy metals, pesticides, infection, so that would include viral issues as well. Mass cells, NK killer cells, cytokines, the microbiome. All these issues here are what really breaks this role. You know, the one of these is the final straw that breaks the camel’s back and then you end up in this what’s called the cell danger response phase. And then that’s where you get the issues with the mitochondria down regular. So there’s more in that. Like I said, it’s 155 pages. It’s like you got to be, you got to be, you know, have your bulletproof coffee before you look through that.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: No, that makes a lot of sense, so your kind of really focusing on the toxicity and how that negatively impacts it. I want to just kind of tie in the dietary component. Why is food so important to enhancing the mitochondria? Let me let me break that down for a second here. This is important. OK, so this is really important. We talked about like Kreb cycle right? And so like this is our zoom out right? What’s happening here? We have glycolysis, Krebs cycle, electron transport chain outside of the mitochondria with the cytosol inside. Now check this out. This is a good one. This is from textbook of functional medicine, so. We have fats, carbs and proteins. These are our primary nutrients where everything comes from right. Fast could be coconut oil, grass fed butter could be fats from. Uhm, grass fed meat right? Our carbs can be vegetables, fruit, starch and our proteins could be protein powder or it could be animal protein, right? All of these essentially shuttled downstream. Fats get carried into the mitochondria via carnitine, so if you go into any biochemistry textbook, it’s called the carnitine. Shuttle right. Every medical doctor, doctorate level person would studied this at a graduate level. I studied as well now in the textbook of I think that guidance Physiology, but there’s another textbook of biochemistry that’s common at the graduate level. You know what the rate limiting amino acids to make carnitine are. It’s methionine and lysine and so really important.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Guess what some of the rate limiting amino acids are in a vegetarian diet.
Evan Brand: Oh yeah, well.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Medallion Leisinger actually very deficient in vegetarian diets, and so this whole process of a carnitine shuttle here that helps bring carnitine converts it into acetyl Co A. So then the actual it can get inside the mitochondria. And run through the citric acid cycle again. That’s the same thing as Krebs Cycle. They have multiple names. In medicine for the same thing, it’s just meant to confuse people. So citric acid cycle or the Krebs cycle. This is how we get fat inside the mitochondria is via carnitine. So very important, right so if we zoom out. Here, we have energy out here, fat. We get it inside via the carnitine shuttle. Super important there and then you see carbs. Right glucose, other sugars. We go pyruvate to lactate and we need guess what B vitamin? So if we’re putting in lots and lots of refined processed sugar and we’re insulin resistant, we can actually deplete B vitamins. And we can actually deplete a lot of magnesium and other nutrients downstream. So, this is really important. Too much carbs, too much sugar, especially if you’re insulin resistance and you’re putting on weight due to too much carbs. That’s going to be a problem, and you’re going to deplete nutrients now. Then we have proteins, amino acids. These all get converted downstream. We also need B itamin to support that now the difference is if you’re eating high quality protein. Guess what? You’re getting good quality B vitamins in that. Protein if you’re doing a lot of refined processed sugar, guess what? You’re not getting vitamins and nutrients with it. So carbohydrates, it’s possible to eat a lot of empty carbs that are actually going to deplete your nutrient levels. Protein not as much if it’s grass fed and organic right now, really, you’re taking all these nutrients, fats, carbs and proteins. You’re converting them into acetyl Co A. OK, you’re converting it to acetyl Co A and again we spit off beta-hydroxybutyrate what’s that? That’s a ketone now this is important. If we keep our carbs in check we can use ketones for fuel, so this is a really important fuel source or people that are going to be lower carb because we’re going to be more keto adapted. We’re going to be able to use that and then you can see here that acetyl Co A. Runs around the Krebs cycle. Twice we go 2 turns. Guess what, we need cysteine amino acid iron really important. So if you’re a female you have heavy bleeding your estrogen dominant you heavy bleeding that’s in effect energy magnesium manganese B vitamins lipoic acid magnesium B vitamins B vitamins tyrosine phenylalanine aspartate, glycine, histidine, arginine, proline. Glycine, valine methionine, right? These are all amino acids over here. So, we need amino acids to run these systems. We need B vitamins. We need magnesium and then of course, once we pump these things around, here’s our NADH and then our FADH should be there somewhere as well. So here NADH, it may not. They may just be oversimplifying it not showing it. But we have NADH here. We should have an FADH2 coming in. This all goes right into. Guess what? This is the electron transport chain and base. Yeah, fatty acid oxidation right there, right? This is now now hydroxymethyl Glutarate. This is Co Q10. This is where Co Q10 comes in and this is where it runs through the electron transport chain and burning fat for fuel and we generate our 36 to 38 ATP from all these three sources 1-2 and three and so that’s what’s happening in your mitochondria. So just to kind of highlight macro nutrients, fats, protein, carbs, very important two, don’t junk it up with all the toxins that you mentioned. And then of course, making sure we. Can breakdown protein. Make sure we’re getting enough iron making. Sure, we’re not. Anemic right? All of those things kind of flow into allowing all these pathways to to work optimally.
Evan Brand: That’s amazing, I love the breakdown to that. The visual super helpful. So just to clarify a little bit. So for women out there, you’re saying that if having heavy ministration, they have low iron. It’s not just the the low iron that we assume is creating like a low oxygenation, you’re you’re showing here. The low iron is literally creating a mitochondrial deficit.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Correct. You’re not getting the oxygen in right? If we go back to here, right? Mitochondria, what do we need to get into the mitochondria? Oxygen, what’s one of the big carrying capacities for oxygen in the body? Hemoglobin and then iron affects hemoglobin in red blood cells, right? Hemoglobin is part of the red blood cell carrying capacity and we need the iron to really keep the hemoglobin levels up so we can carry enough oxygen.
Evan Brand: Wow, so there’s why you’re tired.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Could be. Yet, one and then of course all of the other nutrients play a role. Not enough of the amino acids. The only issue with this graph, any biochemists that are looking on? I think the only thing that’s missing is really the FADH2, so it should. So, all these things, they’re just reducing compounds. Really, the whole goal of this Kreb cycle to run is just grabbing hydrogens. And then once we grab these hydrogens, Uhm, these things get cleaved off, and then it generates ATP. What’s happening there? And all these things like hydroxymethyl iterate. These are right. These are all driven through Co, Q10, right? We need Co Q10 to make that happen.
Evan Brand: Now for people like supplementing ketones, if you go back up to the top there, you can basically kind of inject your own spark plug into the cycle, I guess right? If you’re taking exogenous ketones, what is that doing in relationship to this whole cycle?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s giving you more beta hydroxybutyrate. The problem is your body is going to primarily want to use that when insulin levels are lower, so you have to keep your insulin levels and check. If not, you’re not setting your Physiology up to want to burn that. If you’re probably, gonna pee it out more like more than likely versus burn it. Cause typically, your body has an enzyme called hormone sensitive light pace where it wants to break down fat and convert more of these ketones. Hormone-sensitive light base is inverse with insulin. So hire your hormone-sensitive light pace is you need lower insulin to make that happen.
Evan Brand: So the lady who eats the donut and then goes to the store and buys her exogenous ketones, she’s wasting her.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Probably not as good. There may be some mild benefits that you get cognitively just ’cause your brain has some additional fuel to run on. If people brains are insulin resistant, they may have a lot of sugar from that doughnut, but the cells in their brain maybe so numb. To it that they may not be able to access it so some ketones could be helpful, but in the end, you want to fix the insulin resistance if you’re going to do it. Try doing both. Don’t just do the ketones. Try to do both that you can.
Evan Brand: And you can make your own ketones too. For free.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, yeah, that’s how you’re doing that you keep in your insulin in check. And you’re going to start. Making your own. 100%.
Evan Brand: Yeah, cool.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Cool, that was awesome. Very cool guys. I hope you guys enjoyed today’s podcast. We’re trying to be a little bit more visual; you know. Go into some hard hard science Y stuff, but you know just kind of zoom out. Like what’s the take home right? The take home is don’t put junkie toxins and that screw up your mitochondria right? Antibiotics, I mean antibiotics? You know if if you have an acute infection that’s not resolving, you know you gotta do what you gotta do, right? You have an acute pneumonia. You gotta do what you gotta do. Talk to your doctor about it. Just don’t go to antibiotics all the time as your first line defense. Try to do some. More natural things to fix it #2 you know, try to be aware of mold in your environment. Make sure you’re not. Getting exposed to pesticides. Chemicals heavy metals. Make sure you’re doing your best to hydrate right. We need water to make this whole thing work too. I would say after that make sure you have your macronutrient style, then good quality protein fats and carbohydrates. Organic sources dial in your carbs so you’re not insulin resistant and make sure your inflammation is good. Inflammation helps with oxygenation and blood flow. Then after that we can look at using supplemental nutrients in my line and Evans line we have mito supports products mine is mito synergy. Evans is my toe. Boots will put links down below. Those products have a lot of these nutrients. It’s going to have the ribose to creatine the carnitine, the B vitamin. Since it’s going to have the Co Q10, it’s going to have actually Kreb cycle intermediary compounds like fumarate malate, succinate. All those different nutrients or run those pathways better. Of course, that all sits on top of a solid diet. Don’t take supplements if you’re going to eat crap, eat really great and then say OK now I’m going to work on enhancing it. And again, we can run testing on organic. Message to look at some of these intermediary nutrients, like citrate to connotate succinate bloomer, a mallet we can actually test them, which is pretty cool.
Evan Brand: Yeah, the testing is the best part because you you know if you actually need it. I can tell you the average person has mitochondrial problem, so in general, could you just take this? I kind of call it a multi for the mitochondria. Could you just take that test? You know like a guess and check you could, but we like to see the data and obviously my biggest thing is looking for mold colonization. Candida overgrowth clostridia. Some of these gut infections and how that affects your brain chemistry too. So when you do the oh, you really are getting the best bang for your buck in terms of testing. Like if you could only do one test out there, I think the oh it would. Probably be the number one most.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Important 110%. Anything else you want to say?
Evan Brand: If people need help, they can reach out to you worldwide or me worldwide. Doctor J at justinhealthcom me Evan at evanbrand.com and we would love to chat with you about your symptoms, your goals and we’ll tell you for your good fit for care, so please feel free to reach out. Look forward to helping you.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Foot and get adjusted. Help calm here and then you guys have any questions, comments or concerns. Put him down below. Let us know. Kind of what you’re doing. What’s working that really helps us out as well. Very cool. Alright guys, well you guys have a phenomenal day here and we’ll. Be in touch. Take care of y’all.
Evan Brand: Sounds good.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Alright Bye bye.
Genova NutrEval FMV
The Top 5 Causes of Chronic Headaches
Today we are going to be talking about the top underlying reasons why you may be having a chronic headache. I had a patient come in today who had headaches for 25 years, monthly and chronically, and we were able to get to the root cause and there are many different root causes for every person. Let me lay out the common ones that I find to be a major vector of my patients.
So we have headaches and head pain or migraines where you kind of have that aura and sound sensitivity. There are a couple of different major reasons why headaches may happen.
1. Food Allergens
Most common food allergy is gluten and dairy. There are some studies on gluten affecting blood flow up to the brain. We have these garden hoses on the side of our neck called our carotid arteries. When we have inflammation especially caused by gluten that can decrease blood flow and blood profusion to the frontal cortex, and when you have less blood, you’re going to have decreased performance of the brain. You can see that manifesting in a headache. People don’t know but headaches are actually an issue with vasodilation in the brain. Caffeine can help as caffeine actually causes constriction and brain’s typical headache signal is caused by vasodilation.
2. Food Additives.
These could be things like MSG, aspartame, Splenda or various artificial colors and dyes.
3. Blood Sugar Fluctuation.
We want to have healthy proteins and healthy fats with every meal. If we skip meals or we eat foods that are too high in carbohydrates and refined “crapohydrates” and sugar, and not enough fats and proteins, our blood sugar can go up and then drop. This is called reactive hypoglycemia. We react by putting a whole bunch of sugar in our bloodstream because all of these carbohydrate sources break down into sugar — processed sugar, grains, flours and acellular carbohydrates. These type of flours and refined processed carbs get converted to glucose in our bloodstream. When glucose goes up, our pancreas goes, “Holy smokes! We got a lot of glucose there. We got to pull it into the cell.” It spits out a whole bunch of insulin and pulls that glucose right down, and we have his blood sugar going up with a lot of insulin driving that blood sugar back down. When that blood sugar goes back down, this is where we have cravings. This is where we have addictions, mood issues, energy issues, jitteriness, and cognitive issues. Our body makes adrenaline and cortisol to bring that blood sugar back up. Most people literally live on this high insulin where they are making fat, storing fat and engaging in lipogenesis which makes us tired. Then blood sugar crashes which makes people jittery, anxious, and moody. Most people live on this reactive hypoglycemia rollercoaster and that can drive headaches.
4. Gut Infections.
Patients with a lot of gut inflammation, gut permeability, and infections whether it’s H. pylori, SIBO (small intestinal, bacterial overgrowth) or fungal overgrowth have gut stressors can create inflammation in the gut. When we have inflammation in the gut, we have gut permeability. So our tight junctions in our intestines start to open up and undigested bacteria, lipopolysaccharides, food particles can slip through and create an immune response. You can see histamine along with that immune response and histamine can create headache issues.
5. Hormonal Issue.
A woman’s cycle is about 28 days and in the middle is ovulation. Some women have it during ovulation and most have it right at the end just before they menstruate. This is called premenstrual syndrome that is right before menstruation. A lot of women may also have it during menstruation, too. What happens is progesterone can drop out early and that drop in progesterone can actually cause headache manifestations and also the aberrations in estrogen can also cause headaches as well. We may also see it with excessive bleeding too. So if you’re bleeding a lot or too much, what may happen is you may lose iron and that low iron may cause oxygenation issues. That low level of oxygen may also cause some headache issues as well. Because if you can’t carry oxygen, that is going to be a stressed-out situation for your mitochondria and your metabolism. For menopausal women who have chronically low hormones and they’re not in an optimal place, that can create issues. Progesterone and estrogen can be very anti-inflammatory. So if there is inflammation in the brain, progesterone is a powerful anti-inflammatory and that can really help a lot of inflammation in the brain.
Mitochondrial Dysfunction & Other Causes of Chronic Fatigue- Mold & Candida Contribute | Podcast #287
Welcome to another episode of Beyond Wellness Podcast! For this episode, Dr. J and Evan Brand talk about chronic fatigue, which is a disorder characterized by extreme tiredness that doesn’t go away with rest. Because sometimes, chronic fatigue can also be associated with mold issues, Candida and etc. Check this podcast out.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani
In this episode, we cover:
8:26 Toxins that damage Mitochondria
14:40 Mold Issues
22:22 How Mold and Candida affect Mitochondria
31:05 Nutrients and Vitamins
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And we are live. It’s Dr. J here in the house with Evan brand. Today we’re going to be chatting about chronic fatigue, mold issues and other different causes that could drive chronic fatigue. Evan, how are we doing today?
Evan Brand: I’m doing really well. We’ve got just a couple of papers on this. And we don’t really more than that, because we have so much experience now ever since I had my issues. And you and I started digging into this. It’s like you and I jumped into the mold whirlwind over the past few years together. And it’s been really fun learning and educating people simultaneously. We’ve implemented stuff in our houses that have been game changers for us. We’ve implemented stuff clinically, that have been game changers for others, but I believe this is one of the biggest triggers of chronic fatigue is mycotoxins and I experienced it personally and so I can tell you my own issue, I was exhausted and I’m still recovering from that and your exercise intolerance goes down and a lot of that has to do with the mitochondrial damage to happen. So could you just give us maybe like mitochondria 101 What like, how do they help people? Why are they so important? What happens when they get damaged and all that?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, so your mitochondria, they exist inside of yourself, okay? And it’s going to generate ATP. And part of you know, so you have glycolysis, right? That’s going to be outside the cell where you’re kind of taking glucose generating energy. And then you have the Krebs cycle where you’re spitting out different amounts of hydrogen and ATP. And those hydrogens then now go into so you have these things called reducing agents, called FADHNAD and they gather up hydrogens, okay? And then these hydrogens, right, they enter the electron transport chain, they generate more ATP. So you have glycolysis to the Krebs cycle, right, or citric acid cycle, same thing. And then we have from there into the electron transport chain. And this is where we start to enter the mitochondria. And we need things like carnitine to help shuttle fat into the mitochondria. We need B1 B2 to help with fatty acid oxidation in the mitochondria, it’s part of how the mitochondria burns fuel to run the Krebs cycle and to get the electron transport chain set up we need B vitamins, we need magnesium we need carnitine like I already mentioned before, we need creatine we can use things like ribose we can use things like co q 10. These are all really really important nutrients that fuel these different metabolic pathways obviously, intermediary nutrients like Fumarate and malate and succinate. And then different amino acids are involved with the electron transport chain and or the citric acid cycle, Krebs cycle the leading up to it. So all of these pathways, they roll and they really help generate energy and generate ATP, which is that energetic fuel source.
Evan Brand: And there’s a really good picture of the citric acid cycle some of the stuff that that you and I’ve learned from some of our books and study so we may be able to put that up in the shownotes to where people just want to download it look at it, I think it’s kind of cool because you could look at it and you could just quickly learn all the different nutrients that fuel each part of the cycle. So then I don’t want to say you could spot treat but for lack of a better word, you could kind of spot treat and go, Oh, magnesium, boom, I might be missing that be six. Oh, I might be missing that.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% Yep. 100%. I’m gonna try to pull up a good picture for everyone to see here. So they can kind of wrap their head around it. A picture’s worth 1000 words. So if you guys can kind of understand the concept. I think that makes it a lot easier. I’ll pull that up here in a minute. Okay. All right, cool. Anything else you wanted to highlight on that before we dive in a little bit more?
Evan Brand: Well, you mentioned a bunch of different nutrients. And so I think the most important part to pay attention to is that today we’re focusing kind of zoomed in. But you mentioned a lot of stuff that people could be deficient in for other reasons that we might not cover today. So parasite infections, bacterial overgrowth, any kind of dysbiosis. That’s not allowing the gut bacteria to produce some of these nutrients that may be involved. But that’s not the highlight of the show today. Today we’re focusing on other triggers and other causes.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 110%. Exactly. Very good. So of course, the first thing is we have things that enter the mitochondria. And that major nutrient, that major compound that’s going to enter that mitochondria is going to be acetyl co a, and acetyl. co a is made from fats, carbs and proteins. So the first thing I always tell people is we have to make sure we can digest and break down our fats, carbs and proteins. And we have to make sure we have good proteins, good fats, primarily carbohydrates. You know, of course, if you’re more active, you know, you can always do more safe starches and make sure you’re not doing too many grains and an inflammatory refined sugar. But we need good fats, we need good proteins because that performs and creates a really good building block for that acetyl. co a, and we need that for really, really, really good mitochondrial production.
Evan Brand: Yep. Let’s dive into this study. This is really cool. One of my favorites, this guy, Dr. Brewer-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: If you don’t mind, I want to just hit one more thing. Just I want to set the table a little bit more for the listeners. Okay, let me just do this here real quick. All right. This is a really, really good picture. Can you see that on my screen yet?
Evan Brand: Yep, there it is.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, good. This gives you a pretty good idea. So the mitochondria is kind of the powerhouse of the cell. All right. And so when you look at energy, we first have the cytosol that’s outside of the cell. This is glucose. Glucose comes in glycolysis means breaking down glucose. glyco means glucose. And then license means breaking down. So we generate a little bit of energy here, ATP from glycolysis. Okay, then that then that little bit of energy then moves into the mitochondria. So this is the mitochondria here right now. So we have acetylcholine, acetylcholine then starts going into the Krebs cycle, that Krebs cycles in a turn twice and it’s typically forget exactly, I think it’s two to three NADH or going to be spit out for one fa, d h2. And this is going to turn around twice. And then these different electrons, these hydrogens that are collected from the Krebs cycle, the NADH and the FA, d h 22 to 3, NADH, one fA d h two going to enter the electron transport chain, and then more ATP is then created. So I want to say it’s like 36 to 39 ATP are created from glucose to Krebs cycle to electron transport chain, and I want to say it’s two or three for glucose. Like Allah says two or three for the Krebs cycle, maybe six for the Krebs cycle. And the electron transport chain is the majority where it happens. I want to say 33 or so I want to say it’s about 36 to 39 total ATP, per this whole thing and this is a mitochondria right here. So all most of this stuff happens in the mitochondria and then some of it happens outside in the cytosol.
Evan Brand: Yeah, that’s what I was going to ask you. So if someone has major mitochondrial issues according to this picture, it looks like you would still be able to generate some, but it’s going to be a minimal amount of ATP created from glycolysis. Is that true?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Correct and then glycolysis is going to be dirty fuel right? So you’re going to get a lot more oxidative stress because of the advanced glycation end products that occur when you start making a lot of sugar right? A lot of sugar you coat your proteins right this increases oxidation oxidation and and then require more electrons to stabilize because when you when you oxidize something, right, think of cutting open an avocado, and it browns right or think about cutting open an apple and it browns, you’re losing electrons. That’s what’s happening there. Now you can easily go take a nice lemon or lime and squeeze the vitamin C from that on there, and that will prevent it from oxidizing. So the difference in your body is going to require a lot more antioxidant reserves. If you start creating a lot of oxidative stress, so glucose always burns dirty, okay, and there’s a really good book by Kristofferson called ‘Tripping Over the Truth’. And it’s a book all about mitochondria in glucose and cancer. So there’s a lot of data on this stuff already. So it’s really important to know that’s why we want to be more fat burners, good proteins and you can get carbs, you know, according to your metabolic needs. If you’re more active and, and you’re healthy, healthier and more fit and more lean and more active, then you can definitely add in some good high quality safe starches, but you really want to dial that in according to your metabolic needs. It’s not a set kind of size for everyone.
Evan Brand: Very cool. Thanks for the picture. That’s awesome to see. So where do the toxins come into the picture? Well, the toxins are going to damage the mitochondria. So as you showed here, you can make some energy outside of the mitochondria. So you can still quote get by, but you may be exhausted if that Krebs cycle isn’t working properly due to potentially some of those nutrient deficiencies you covered that could be fueling the Krebs cycle. Maybe you’ve got infections or malabsorption issues going on. But we know that mold toxin damages the mitochondria law as well and actually sent you another paper in the notes if you wanted to look at it. It’s called mycotoxin its impact on gut health and microbiota. And this is pretty cool, because the end of this paper discusses that if you have good intestinal flora, they say here, it’s now well established that a healthy gut microbiota is largely responsible for the overall health of the host findings revealed that gut microbiota is capable of eliminating mycotoxin from the host naturally, provided that the host is healthy with a balance of good gut bugs. So long story short, and there’s a cool picture on that paper to just I don’t know if you can pull it up, but it’s called frontiers, cellular infection, microbiology, it’s a really cool picture of the gut and it just shows on the right that you’ve got all these different infections, like helicobacter, you’ve got E. coli, you’ve got reduction of beneficial bacteria, and therefore, the mycotoxins are not going to get treated as they should.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, I see that right here. Yep. So on that you see a whole lot bunch of decrease in good beneficial bacteria. I can share it right real quick here with y’all. You can see a decrease in a lot of your beneficial floor right here, man, you don’t see an increase in a lot of the pathogenic floor right here. And then of course, you have lipid polysaccharides. These are going to be your endotoxin that are the outer coating of the bad Gram negative bacteria. And then of course, you have more than mycotoxins. And of course, that’s going to stress out the microbiome stress out the immune system is going to increase gut permeability. The more gut more your gut is permeable, aka leaky gut, the more immune stress you’re going to have, because now your immune system is interacting with compounds and toxins that normally wouldn’t Is that correct?
Evan Brand: Yep, that makes perfect sense. And this makes sense of why probiotics can be beneficial right out of the gate. A lot of people discuss and you and I discussed binders and Bluetooth ion and fixing the environment and all of that, but I mean, this shows here that bumping up your good bacteria is going to be a critical component to so I personally implemented a 50 to 100 billion have some multi stream probiotics and I have felt better. Is that the magic here? No, I’m doing a lot of things, but it has been pretty beneficial.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% Yep, pull up that pull up that Brewer paper. Now I think that’s going to be the next thing we should talk about. So let’s go over that.
Evan Brand: This is crazy. This is crazy. So if you scroll down, long story short, in clinic, Brewer and some of his associates in this in this paper, they were testing using urine testing, which is what Justin and I run in clinic as well. We do a urine mycotoxin screen. And right here on the first page. It’s crazy says right here that urine specimens showed that 93% of his chronic fatigue patients these are known chronic fatigue sufferers. 93% of those were positive for at least one mycotoxin
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Correct. So if you look here, right, here’s 112 patients 93% had at least one mycotoxin, again you have different mycotoxins, you have the aflatoxin- This is common like peanut stuff okra toxin and then you have the tri coat the scenes which is common in the in the black mold the Stacie buttress black mold, okay, so these different toxins we can actually test and now it’s important. Some people may test these things and they don’t do a really good glute. If I don’t push people that have really poor to toxification they may not push these things out. So you really want to make sure a couple of days ahead of time you do a good Bluetooth ion push and and even that you may just want to even look at the home too and do a really good play test on your home. Again, we use immunologic labs, we’ll put some links down below if you guys want to procure those tests, but some people they may have a hard time pushing it out. So yeah, so number one is I always recommend do a glutathione push. If you feel achy or really bad or brain foggy or tired or fatigued that could be a good time. Also, if you have a lot of mold in the home, especially molds that have these mycotoxins The nice thing about the amino Linux. It’ll tell you if these mycotoxins are produced by the species of mold they find so they see Aspergillus, or different mold that can be produced during water damage, then usually there’s an oak, there’s usually going to be a mycotoxin attached to it. There are some molds that are natural, like in soil and just plant degradation outside. Those are different some more from pet dander and those kind of things. So you’re able to get a window into all those things, as well.
Evan Brand: Yeah, and I just want to say one comment about the push. When I first did my original mycotoxin urine screen, I did do Bluetooth ion for maybe three days and I guess that wasn’t enough because my Michael phenolic acid, which is a mycotoxin that comes from Penicillium, which I was exposed to my level was a 12, which was in the red range, but it was just barely. And then when I retested six months later after trying really hard and doing sauna therapy, which is another way you could actually do provocation. If someone doesn’t have glue defi on, you could do a sauna session, then collect urine, that could also help but six months later, my levels went from a 12 to a 1700 my levels were off the chart, even though I’d been trying for six months to get it out, and I did feel better. Some may look at that. And I’ve had some clients, you know, call me and they’re like, I’m crying. I’m freaking out, my levels went up what’s going on, and we explain most of the time, that doesn’t mean new exposures happen. That just means you’re getting better at detoxification, and you’re pushing more out. And that’s what happened to me. So my levels were really, really low. Six months later, they were really, really high. And then another six, eight months later, they were low again, indicating that I did actually detox it and push it out.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. Now part of the reason why we were able to stick with it is because we knew that you had high levels of mold in your old home, correct?
Evan Brand: Well, so it was a crawlspace exposure. Looking back at the plates. The house was minimally bad honestly, what I think happened based on talking to Scott force grant, he his theory on it is that my tick bites that I got sort of set the mold in motion because I had the most exposure when I was a kid hanging out in my grandmother’s house. Were her babies basement flooded many times. And I remember going down there and smelling musty basement. So I guarantee you, I’ve had mold toxin, you know, just because I’m genetically unable to detox it like a lot of people are, I probably had it since I was a very, very young child. But his theory was that the tick bites basically weaken the immune system enough to allow the mycotoxins to really take me down. Whereas before, I may have had some symptoms, but it wasn’t as it wasn’t as brutal. So it was the combination of tick bites, and then some more recent mold exposure, that kind of retriggered things. Yeah, and I think it was just the straw that broke the camel’s back. I think it was a combination because I didn’t really get exposed to that much upon looking back at my plates and comparing those to some of my clients. I’m like, you know what, this wasn’t that bad. I mean, we had a though, I remember them being more high. So everything in the house was in single digits. It was just the crawlspace that was in double digits. And then once we did the fog treatment, everything was back to normal but what really screwed me is when we modified the the hva system. And we were trying to circulate the air in the crawlspace. Better. So the ductwork was changed to make a complete loop system from the crawlspace, sucking that air pumping that air into the house, and then the house pumping back in. So it was a continuous loop. And that’s what really screwed me because that setup wasn’t there before. And that’s what really cranked the levels up. And that’s where, even after we did an initial treatment, the levels went way up. Because now we were bringing in bad air into the breathable air. And so once we reverse that correctly, so if I remember correctly, is you had this crawlspace right, there was mold in the crawlspace. That was really high. The rest of the house was okay, but there was a lot of whole mold in the crawlspace they fixed the ventilation part of the home before they treated the crawlspace. Is that correct? Yeah. So we Yeah, we treated the home silly. I mean, absolutely. I can’t believe that happened. I’m just like, How the heck did these guys screw that up? I know, I know. So So then we treated it again though. And then the reverse the duck system that we had put in we reversed all of that. And then treated it again. And then it was fine. So technically, I could have stayed because the plates were incredible after that, but I needed a bigger house. Anyway, we had another kid come in. So it was a good excuse for me to just say, hey, let’s just go ahead and leave.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right but that was a big trigger for you. And then I think even in the new home that was still a little bit more mold that came back on that home to right near the retreat that address.
Evan Brand: Yeah, yeah, we treated this house as well. We had some high colonies near the kitchen, which is potentially from the kitchen empties out into a screen room. So if those screen doors were always open, bringing bringing in outside air outdoor molds over time can accumulate in the house and make mycotoxins so yeah, we’ve we’ve treated it and now we just do some of the maintenance solution and we do some of the candles and such and now we’ve got it under control. So and then-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Also in general, you have the dehumidifier put in so then the humidity is now a lot less in the home. So that helps so there’s less breeding ground for it. And then you also just have air filtration throughout the home. So even if things were to come in your filters would naturally grab it anyway.
Evan Brand: Yeah, I would assume my house is probably one of the few in Kentucky that doesn’t have mold in it because even with our whole house dehumidifiers, I mean, it’s pouring rain as we speak right now the ground rarely dries out because we have so much rain here lately. And even with the whole house dehumidifiers running, we’re barely keeping the house at 50% 45 to 50% humidity if you didn’t have those Running Man, who knows outside right now is like 86% humidity. And you and I’ve discussed this many times on the podcast, but you know, if you have humidity levels above 50% continuously in your home, you don’t have to have a water event. You don’t have to have a dishwasher overflow or a toilet leaking. Just the high moisture from the humidity alone can create mold, and that’s what happens in many homes that you and I’ve tested.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, it really happens in areas where the temperature is just a little bit low. So you don’t have the AC because the AC will act with a natural dehumidifier but it’s temperature driven where humidifier is humidity percent driven. So I had a little bit of so if you have a you know 65 or 70, and it’s not quite triggering the AC, that’s where you really get screwed, but it’s not cold enough, not hot enough to trigger an AC but it’s also very humid 6065 70 or it’s just a basement area where basements are really cool but humid, that’s where you really need it because then if you get a humid basement, that’s cool. Well guess what it’s going to that ventually those molds are going to go upstairs to the rest of the home even if the rest of the home is is you know nice in and low humidity because of the air conditioner. So having a dehumidifier is important. I had a little bit of water issues over the weekend I was changing my water filter. And there was like three vowels you have to turn off. I only turned off two out of the three so it leaked a bit. Nothing bad I you know, got three or four towels cleaned it up. But what I did is I went in crank that dehumidifier down to 40%. And within two, three hours, any residual water that was hanging out was all evaporated, gone. But if you had 60% humidity in that basement, that water would just sit there for days on end. Once that water sits for 48 hours. It’s gonna start raining mold toxins.
Evan Brand: Yeah, I’m glad you got the dehumidifier too. That’s, that’s pretty much essential for where we live with higher humidity. So, back to the chronic fatigue thing. So let’s keep going back on this paper because this is what I had.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: If you want you can go share your screen here, Evan, you can share your screen if you like. Evan, are you there? Can you hear me? I lost that and guy, so I’ll wait for him to kind of come back on here. I’ll just keep on riffing. While we are waiting for him. I’m just gonna give him a message here.
All right, awesome. So just chatting with Evan here on the on the side here. He’ll be back on the show in just a minute. Let me keep rolling with you guys. So in general, we have the mitochondria we have different mold toxins that can affect and poison the mitochondria. One of the things that we get with fungus or mold is we get things called oxalates. And oxalates can enter the mitochondria enter the Krebs cycle, and make it harder for that Krebs cycle to work and harder to generate energy. So of course, that’s going to be a big component to stressing out the mitochondria. So when we look at molds coming into the end environment, whether it’s mold from outdoors, whether it’s molds or fungal because it kind of have molds, right, and then you have different things like funguses in your gut like Candida, they kind of have a similar mechanism where they’re going to affect and poison the mitochondria. and different things like that can create oxalate and they can really make it harder for the mitochondria to generate ATP.
I’m going to show a couple of articles here I got an article on mold and how it can affect or Candida and how it can affect the mitochondria. I’m gonna pull this up with you guys here right now so you guys can see it. So this is interesting right here, you guys can see my screen chronic intestinal candidiasis as a possible ecological factor in chronic fatigue syndrome. We talked about Candida syndrome, also known as Candida related complex, putatively caused by an overgrowth of Candida, so that’s an overgrowth, not the Candida is not ever going to be there. It should be there and maybe at very low levels, it’s the significant overgrowth. That’s the problem.
And essentially in response of large number of patient with chronic fatigue to an oral antifungal agent, there’s evidence that Candida infection of the mucous membranes depress our T cells and natural killer cells. Similar abnormalities of the immune function are found in chronic fatigue. So it’s altering our immune function. So our body’s ability to deal with an immune response and deal with infections and deal with stress is going to be impaired big time. This is this is really, really, really important to kind of highlight and then it says, um, and it’s important in preventing reactions like epstein barr cytomegalovirus, herpes virus, there are other viral infections that could play a role with chronic fatigue. Right? And again, with chronic fatigue, the question is what comes first? Is it the chicken or the egg? In other words, when you have a an infection, is it the infection is cause is the underlying cause or did you have a weakened immune system leading up to the infection that caused the problem to begin with.
That’s really what the underlying issue is, did you get the infection first? Or did the infection come as a result of the weakened immune system, and I’m not sure if it matters too much, we always try to line up what the what the likely causes. But we know here things like Candida and gut issues can affect the T cell and the natural killer cell, this is going to be our th one branch of the immune system. So our th one or those kind of special forces, they get in there and really do a lot of killing ahead of time. And they kind of the first line defense of the immune response. That’s like kind of really, really, really important to highlight and then it talks about here. And so then when you have a compromised immune system, other parasites other viral issues may be an issue then mold may be more of a problem. So now when you get exposed to mold, you may have been able to whip through it no problem you adapted to a bun now it’s like dang I think really knocked on your butt. So then said yes. The immune dysfunction found in the sorter has been considered the primary underlying cause. So this imbalance of cytotoxic T cell and T helper cells and natural killer cells is the underlying cause. It proposed that the chronic intestinal combat is maybe an agent, which leads to the immune depression in many chronic fatigue patients, and therefore, it could be a causal factor in chronic fatigue. So a lot of times we have the guts stuff leads the way. Okay, the guts stuff leads the way and then everything else happens after that, that makes sense. All right, excellent. Excellent. Very good.
I’m going to just take a pause here for one second. We lost Evan here, so I’m gonna see if I can get him back on the show as we chat. All right, let’s keep on rolling. So we talked about some of the guts stuff now you can see some of these things here with Candida and mold. We can see the same thing with CBOE as well. All right, if we look at small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, SIBO and chronic fatigue, guess what we’re gonna see similar things and why? Why is it? Well, it’s because of the fact that the God is where 80% of the immune system lives this is important. So when you look at research, research suggests the high prevalence of SIBO among chronic fatigue patients, One study found 77% of chronic fatigue. patients had SIBO why because when you start to have gut issues, the immune system starts to get revved up, right. And when the immune system gets revved up, it gets weakened or you start to create an imbalance like that th one part of the immune system starts to become depleted. And when that th one becomes depleted, that’s going to make it harder for you to go after and deal with other stressors like SIBO like Candida like mold, right. This is why the gods plays a big role is because you have this tube.
That’s technically outside of your body yet when you swallow food, it’s technically outside of your body because when it goes into the bloodstream, that’s now inside, technically, it’s outside of the body, you’re have 80% of the immune cells in the golf, the gastric associated lymphoid tissue, that’s the part of the stomach. And then we have the mall. That’s the mucus associated lymphoid tissue that’s in the in the small intestine. And if you have stressors, whether it’s bugs or bad food that stresses out the immune system, the more chronically the immune system is stressed. It creates imbalances and makes it so other things that now encounter your body like mold or Candida or viruses like epstein barr mano, right? The kissing disease. Now that’s going to create more stress and really, really, really knock on your butt. So we always have to look at what the underlying root cause of everything is. So, so we don’t lose sight of that. So we always want to understand what’s the root cause? What are associated causes and just because it’s an associative cause, you still want to make sure you fix it. Because sometimesyou’re not really sure if there’s three or four different infection 234 different bugs, does it mean that hey, each one is 25% equal, maybe, sometimes one’s a bigger one. And we also have to make sure we set the table. So if there’s food or other issues that are driving the problem, to begin, we got to make sure we fix that. What if those things have created an autoimmune issue? And now you have Hashimoto is because of the mold or because of the bug issue. Right. And now, the thyroids been attacked for a decade. Well, now what do you got to do? You can’t just ignore the thyroid and be puritanical and say, well, the root cause is Candida.
Therefore, if I only fix the root cause, then everything else should be fixed. No, you may still have to go in there and support the thyroid because the hormone levels have now dropped, or the adrenal levels now have dropped. So you, you, you know, it’s easy to be like, well, the root causes this, everything else goes downstream, yes, but you may have to come in there and support those other pathways so you can get better and feel better faster. If not, you may be suffering for a long time. Really, really, really important points. All right, I’m going to roll with questions guys and see where you’re at with everything. So in general, with foods, big things that are going to stress this out, if you’re eating lots of refined sugar, and you’re and you’re spitting out a lot of candy to the candy doesn’t make a whole bunch of lactic acid, and that can make it and though that can easily eat a lot of your B vitamins, so the more Candida and the more bugs we have, the more you’re going to be consuming and ripping up a lot of your B vitamins. So B vitamins are very important. When you have bad bacteria, it’s gonna make it a lot harder for you to consume a lot of those good healthy B vitamins because your bugs in your gut are going to be consuming it for you. That’s like super, super important bugs in your gut are going to be consuming it. Number two is the bacteria is and it produced toxins. And this is big because these toxins now put more stress on your guts. So put more stress on your detoxification pathway.
So when you have a lot more gut toxins, like polysaccharide or endotoxin, or the different mycotoxins may be made by Candida, and now your detoxification pathways get stressed. And now the sulfur that your body needs to run detoxification pathway have to get up regulated, you’re going to need more B vitamins like b 12, and fold a and be sick. So you’re going to need more of those nutrients as well to run those detoxification pathways. And so that can also drive fatigue as well because if you’re really like your body only has so many so much resources, so if you’re really toxic, if you’re really toxic, your body’s gonna allocate a lot of the nutrients on the B vitamins side or the sulfur side that may plug into the mitochondria. ….. ossification have less resources over here. So just just very, very, very, very important to keep that in the back of your head. Okay, awesome. Okay, very, very good.
All right, excellent. So it’s very, very important to really keep an eye on all the resources here because the more stressed your detoxification pathways gets, they’re going to pull a lot of that sulfur, they’re going to pull a lot of the B vitamins, and those are all nutrients that would plug into that mitochondrial pathway to begin with. So really, really, really, really important. You need so for people forget you need sulfur to actually make a lot of your dopamine and adrenaline. So dopamine and adrenaline. You need good sulfur. All right. And so if you if you’re chronically stressed, you’re going to be making a lot of adrenalin and eventually you’re going to be depleted because you’re not going to have that good software to take dopamine to norepinephrine, epinephrine, so you deplete sulfur because when you have dope mean that’s your feel good neurotransmitter you feel good, helps you focus. It’s a good reward center neurotransmitter, and that will go downstream, the more stressed your app is epinephrine, norepinephrine, that’s basically adrenaline or catecholamines. And these things are going to get very, very depleted, the sulfur will, will get very, very depleted, the more you’re chronically stressed, and then you’ll have less sulfur. And then the less sulfur you have, you’re going to have less building blocks for glutathione for your methylation, for all your detoxification nutrients, so it really plugs in. You want to look at everything holistically, so it all makes sense. All right, wonderful. All right, guys. Hey, phenomenal chat with you. If you guys enjoy today’s podcast talking about Candida talking about mold and mycotoxins connecting it to the mitochondria connecting it to energy. These are all very, very important components and on how and why everything you know is vitally important, why it all connects. So in general, co q 10. Very important, you know, anywhere between 100 to 500 milligrams a day. B vitamins, you know, a good high quality B Complex especially if we see on an organic acid test more forming a glutamate or more methylmalonic acid that tells us B12. And it also tells us full later benign, we may see things like xanthi urinator, kind of urinate which tell us B6 is important because B6 helps with our brain it is needed for the synthesis of neurotransmitters, right serotonin and dopamine. So if we don’t have good neurotransmitters that’s gonna really really affect our body’s ability to sleep to deal with stress mood, our adrenals right B five is a really important one pens authentic acid, we need it for our adrenals and also plugged into our mitochondria. Krebs cycle amino acids like I’ll see on these mitochondrial tests, we’ll see low sulfur like we’ll see low sulfate or low power of glutamate, or we’ll see low Pokorny, which is a sign of lower amino acids and these amino acids plug in to the Krebs cycle.
And you can see here I’ll try to pull it up on screen how the amino acids plug in, but there’s a bunch of amino acids and the Krebs cycle. I’ll try to pull it up here. Now, why is this important? Well, because if you have poor digestion, because of mold, because of Candida, guess what’s going to happen to your body’s ability to break down protein? It’s going to drop, it’s going to significantly drop. Okay, I’m going to pull this up here so you guys can see how amino acids plug in. They plug in significantly. Okay, I got it right up here for you guys. Alright, cool. Let me just show this to you guys so you can see it. So this is what the Krebs cycle looks like. Okay, so you have remember this is the glucose here is in the site is all that’s outside of the mitochondria. Okay. All right, and then this stuff here comes in glucose phospholipids animal pyruvate pyruvate to acetylcholine. Now this starts to enter into the mitochondria, so sudo Coase now in the mitochondria, so look at these building blocks a Piru a to acetal koi look what it is people listening here we have a video version two so you guys can see my screen alanine cysteine glycine serine three Nene trip the fan right I so loosing all these things are big these are all essential amino acids that plug in to pyruvate and the seal co a and these kind of provide the building blocks to ratchet through your Krebs cycle and this thing is going to turn around twice. So you have saturate the ISO citrate and then you have alpha ketoglutarate more glutamine more prolene more histidine more origin and get plugged in. Then you have [inaudible] when you have more isoleucine more veiling right these are branched chain amino acids. Now this is part of the reason why working out with branched chain amino acids helpful refining 3d and then it goes from succinylcholine to succinate or we have tyrosine and phenyl alanine, which helps dopamine and adrenaline and then Fumarate to melee, melee to oxaloacetate, which is aspirin gene and aspartate. And then it plugs right back into we’ll see the code so you can see how that works. All right, you can see how that works very, very important amino acids. So if we have very poor, if we have very, very poor digestion, we have low hydrochloric acid, we have low enzymes, that’s an a play a really, really big role in this whole thing. So getting your enzymes and your stomach acid up really having a clean diet, really breaking down your food, and then really working with a good practitioner to look at the mold toxins or the gut stress the Candida in the gut. Right, and it’s more of an overgrowth, maybe looking at SIBO maybe looking at H. pylori or other gut infections. Looking at the environmental mold, if there is mold, how do we fix it right? What’s the root cause of that mold? Is it a muted humidity issue? Do we just need an air filter? Do we have to do a bio balance protocol in the home to get the mold level down right? So we have to look at the whole picture so we get to the root cause I hope that makes sense.
Any other questions? Feel free I’ll chime in and try to answer them here for y’all. I think we got most stuff here that’s on point kind of already dialed in. So if you guys want to reach out to Evan, EvanBrand.com is a console link you can feel free and schedule. Also head over to my site JustinHealth.com to schedule a consult with myself if you want to dive in deeper we’ll put links down below. If you guys enjoyed this content, share it with friends and family make sure you subscribe hit that like button hit the bell so you get notifications. It’s phenomenal chatting with y’all really appreciate it. Just do me a favor try to apply some of this information so that you can make yourself healthier. It’s really important when you’re healthier. You become a better parent, a better person a better employee, a better boss, and it just it really helps the whole world get better the healthier you get the whole world gets better. Alright guys, it was phenomenal chat and you guys have a great day. Take care. Bye
Joov Red Light Therapy Boosting Your Hormone & Mitochondria w/ Scott Nelson Interview | Podcast #269
In this podcast, we are going to talk about red lights, a device that helps us in boosting our hormones and internal health. Today’s episode is with Scott Nelson, one of the founders of Joov Red Light Therapy.
In this episode, we cover:
01:59 All About Light Therapy
13:37 Light Therapy Benefits
26:12 Fluorescent Light Issues
34:03 Joov’s Dose
35:09 Red Light’s Safety
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And we are live. It’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani here today is going to be a fabulous interview. I have Scott Nelson, who’s one of the co founders of Joov. Joov is a phenomenal red light technology really good, with lots of cool benefits. I’m really excited to have him on the show today and talk all about things red lights, and how we can use it to improve your health. Well, Scott, welcome to the show.
Scott Nelson: Dr. J. Pleasure to be on the show, really looking forward to the discussion.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent, Scott. So first, tell me about your background. How did you even get into a field where you’re, hey, I’m going to invent red light technology and bring it to the masses. How does that even work? How do you even get to this point?
Scott Nelson: Right? Well, I’d like to say it was all planned out and very strategic, but that’s not really the case. I personally, I spent most of my professional career in the traditional med tech space. So with companies like Medtronic, Covidien, Boston Scientific, and really more specifically the peripheral vascular arena, so have have a really strong med tech background. But the the story of how we we found juvies is really probably not too dissimilar to any other startup. This is, you know, back in early 2015, and my wife and her, her sister purchased a red light therapy package at a local from a local Spa in Minneapolis. That’s where we started the company and saw really good benefits. But when we looked at the the product landscape and the available information online to learn more about this, this technology, there really wasn’t a lot of good, good offerings. Either way, right? Whether it was to learn in a sort of easily digestible way more about light therapy, or photobiomodulation, or from a product standpoint, there really wasn’t, you know, very good, very good offerings for when it comes to devices that you could use at home. And so we kind of thought how there might be something here, there might be an opportunity to kind of like, you know, see if we can see if we can build a product that kind of suits our own needs first, and that’s a high level overview, but that’s sort of how we got started.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Cool. So like, what is red light we have obviously, it’s a spectrum, right? Like, what’s that frequency? How does that compare to like UVB light where you can make vitamin D but also get a sunburn? How what’s that comparison look like?
Scott Nelson: Yeah. I’m glad you brought that up. Because light can be kind of one of these abstract things right for people, especially if people are new to it, when I’m new to it in terms of how it can, how it can affect our health and so, to your point, you brought up the electromagnetic spectrum, it’s actually very, very broad, you’ve got invisible infrared wavelengths of light, to visible light that we see you know, every day blue, green, red, etc, to UVB, UVA, UVB, etc. Various various wavelengths. And when we talk about light therapy, or photobiomodulation, there’s actually a very narrow range of wavelengths that have been proven time and time again and clinical science to support some really strong benefits when it comes to overall health. And those those wavelengths kind of generally fall in the in the red and near infrared range. But to your point, it’s really it’s almost like that the comparison would be like, think about 10 football fields, right? And we’re focused on be on the the 10 to 20 yard line on one of those football fields, right, and that’s where kind of the that’s the those specific wavelengths of light red and near infrared are sort of like where the magic happens when it comes to you know, health and wellness.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and that wavelength that frequencies right around what 650 to 750 nanometer frequency?
Scott Nelson: Yeah, yeah. at nanometers is typically the, you know, the, the, the metric that’s used when we’re talking about wavelengths and it’s, it’s visible red light, and that kind of that low to mid 600 nanometer range. And then near infrared, so not not mid or far not infrared, like an infrared sauna. And we can certainly talk about that later on in the conversation but near infrared in the kind of the low to mid 800 nanometer range. And those, those are not to say that other other wavelengths of light can have can have benefits when it comes to certain health health categories. But those two specific ranges have been been proven by the most science.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, so on your device, I have a two device, it’s phenomenal. And there’s two options. There’s a red light option, then there’s a near infrared light option. So is the difference just the near infrared, just the frequencies a little bit, little longer set of 650 to 750. It’s a little bit higher up in the frequency?
Scott Nelson: It is. It is a little bit longer wavelength. And that’s probably the number one question we get all the time is what’s the difference between the two red versus near infrared. And there’s there’s probably some some different mechanisms that have action at a cellular level that will learn about over time. But for the most part, it’s really just depth of penetration. So most of the energy from red light is absorbed in the superficial layers of our of our tissue. So primarily the dermis and epidermis of your skin. And the near infrared has the unique ability to penetrate into deeper tissues and that’s why you see it studied more often for you know, reducing joint pain and inflammation or for for bone health, stimulating, you know, bone bone regrowth as an example, because-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: in the infrared, you have deeper penetration in for infrared, regular red light, it’s more superficial.
Scott Nelson: You got it. You got it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And then so let’s go over that frequency. So split 650 to 750 or so for the red. And then the infrared is what, what’s that frequency there?
Scott Nelson: Yeah, it’s about the mid six hundreds for red and then the low low to mid eight hundreds for near infrared.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: A mid 100 Okay, great, so I can wrap my head around that and just people listening. You kind of go violet, violet Blue, Green 400 to 500. So you keep on creeping up in that spectrum, those wavelengths get longer as you go into red and infrared. Is that correct?
Scott Nelson: You got it, you got it. And each, I think the important point to call out here and the analogy I like to use when we talk about different wavelengths of light is kind of thinking about it like food. We all understand our bodies metabolize different macronutrients in various ways right proteins, carbs, fats, and and and it matters the time of day right that you eat those as well. Like if you eat a high glycemic carbohydrate late at night, not a great recipe for success, you know, for health success anyway. But when it comes to wavelengths of light, those also have unique our bodies respond uniquely. From a physiological standpoint, different wavelengths, you mentioned UVB wavelengths of light as an example, we all understand that that our bodies produce vitamin D in response to UVB exposure. Well, our bodies are the cells you know, the mitochondria and ourselves are respond in a unique ways to when exposed to red and near infrared light as well. So it’s just kind of important understand our bodies, they react and respond to these different wavelengths of light.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Can infrared or near infrared- can that burn your skin?
Scott Nelson: No, no, not not like not like you, you know your ultraviolet rays from the sun as it is.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, got it so the ultraviolet rays that’s going to be on the 400 ish frequency. So you got to be in that lower 400 450 or so to start getting the burn. Is that correct?
Scott Nelson: Yeah, yeah, it’s in the kind of the mid the mid three hundreds is there’s a there’s a there’s a little bit of a range there like mid to high three hundreds into the low four hundreds, and then you start getting into visible, you know, visible blue light as an example.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And what’s happening like, why is it that wavelength gets longer? It’s not having a burning effect? Is there a reason why your body’s able to dissipate it or tolerate it better?
Scott Nelson: That’s a great question. Probably a little bit above my pay grade. Yeah, be more more applicable to like, you know, a photobiomodulation researcher but not not entirely sure that the mechanism at play there, but I think For people listening is our bodies just respond differently to these various wavelengths of light just like food. And so you know, ultraviolet wavelengths of light can be beneficial they can help our bodies produce more vitamin D but like prolonged exposure you know isn’t isn’t isn’t isn’t great because you know we’re likely to burn it’s likely because of skin burn so.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly, now some people they also talk about you know vitamin you know, like the ultraviolet light that’s going to stimulate cortisol to take down melatonin that’s why we keep lights off at night so to speak, but tell me about red light on melatonin effects like can you do red light before bed? Well that negate your melatonin and make it harder for you to go to sleep and stimulate you. What do you notice with that?
Scott Nelson: Yeah, when it when it comes to red light, this is kind of one of the emerging categories within the world of light therapy that is showing some interesting promise right exposure to red and near infrared light and can can it help your body produce more melatonin? There’s some early some some small studies. I mean, we’re kind of early and learning more about this. This this category, but they’re out there. There are some interesting studies, you know, one in particular that stands out to me, while we’re while we’re chatting here is one is researchers that evaluated female basketball players that were exposed to full body red light therapy. I think if I remember correctly over, it was a relatively short amount of time. But they saw tremendous results in terms of their sleep quality. And researchers then concluded that, you know, it’s highly likely that these wavelengths of light are stimulating, you know, melatonin production. And so I think that that’s one of the and that’s, you know, anecdotally we’ve heard now from, you know, hundreds from hundreds of our own customers that have reported back, you know, benefits with regards to sleep, enhance the quality quality when using, you know, red and near infrared light on a consistent basis. And so, it appears that yes, that that’s definitely happening. And there’s no doubt that it’s definitely a better it’s a better wavelength of light to be exposed to once the sun begins to set. Because you know, if we’re, if we’ve got if we’re looking at me, I know you’ve covered this on your on your show before Dr. J. But if we’re exposed A bright blue light or bright white light at night, that’s very disruptive to our circadian rhythm. Yes, it serves as almost a signal to our brain, right? Our brain says, you know, body you should be wide awake because it’s, it’s, it’s sunny out, it’s this bright blue and white light that’s stimulating. And so we think our body thinks that it’s, it’s, it’s, you know, mid day, you know, it’s the middle part of the day when in reality, we should begin to prepare for bed time. And so that that is it’s a much it’s a much more gentle form of light to be used, you know, in the evenings, there’s no doubt but it does appear that there’s some some therapeutic effect as well in terms of, you know, stimulating more melatonin production.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. So we have typical ultraviolet light. So like we have like the spectrum, right, all of the infrared stuff at the top of the spectrum. Then the Colors kind of go down, like red, orange, yellow, blue, indigo, violet, violet here, and then you have the ultraviolet just below so it’s the ultraviolet that’s going to be burning you and then one step above is the kind of the blue and that’s most of the lights that you’re going to see indoors right.
Scott Nelson: Yep, yet white, bright white or bright blue light. Exactly. And blue light has some interesting effects. Right? It gets it gets a really bad rap, right in terms of overexposure from from devices, but usually that’s because we’re using that the wrong time of day. You know, using bright light in the morning is not mean depending on the source, of course, but it may not be bad because it helps to reset your circadian rhythm.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Scott Nelson: Yeah, yeah. And, you know, it can actually there’s, there’s a fair amount of clinical clinical research that suggests blue light is is very good for, you know, bacterial induced acne as an example. So it has, it has its benefits, but most of the most of us, at least here, here that here in America, you know, use it the wrong way, you know, or we’re getting blasted with it at night at the wrong time of day. And you know, it’s completely disruptive to our, you know, to our our circadian biology.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. So let’s kind of before we talk about, so people listen, this is going to be like the soup to nuts, everything about red light that you guys want to know about the science diving in deep but also kind of pulling it back and having the application so if you guys just don’t care, you want to know how to use it. We’re going to go over that too. Hold tight. Like let’s what’s happening when light hits your skin, you get red light going, what’s happening to the mitochondria? What’s happening underneath the hood? People can wrap their heads around that.
Scott Nelson: Yeah, and we’ll start high level and we can certainly go deeper if you want to Dr. J. But I’m at a high level, the mitochondria and ourselves. So the powerhouses of our cells are being stimulated by these wavelengths of light. So there’s a there’s a process called cellular respiration or mitochondria. Our mitochondria follows that process to produce more ATP energy adenosine triphosphate. And so we’re actually there’s a it’s there’s a pretty well understood mechanism, it’s it’s it’s probably the most well understood mechanism that red and near infrared light play a key role during the fourth phase of that process, that cellular respiration process and the end result is that our mitochondria are functioning better, they’re producing more energy. And because of that core kind of stimulation at the mitochondrial level, you’ve seen a wide range of benefits right? Everything from improve skin Health Increase Collagen Production, it anti inflammatory reactions, right, you know, through and the byproduct would be reduced, you know pain and inflammation, etc. But it’s all because of that core mechanism of action that these specific wavelengths of light are stimulating our mitochondria to produce more energy.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. So it’s stimulating the mitochondria producing more energy, we have more ATP, obviously, we’re making ATP from our food as well, right? And so essentially, we have our food and then we have the light. So we’re kind of supercharging our energy system so we can generate more ATP.
Scott Nelson: You got it, you got and there’s also some I mean, that’s probably that’s, that’s in the world of photobiomodulation. That’s, that’s kind of been the gold standard mechanism of action for quite some time is is, you know, these wavelengths of light and their ability to resonate with an enzyme called cytochrome c oxidase. But as as this kind of this, this field of light therapy emerges. We’re learning we’re beginning to learn a lot more about about various mechanisms at play. There’s a lot of interesting data around light therapy and cognitive health as an example and the wavelengths of light being able to increase or create new synapses in your brain as an example, right? There’s some interesting research which we make it into related to oncology and the ability for these wavelengths of light to stimulate TGF one beta, which is a certain side of cytokines. So there’s a lot of new learnings and and certainly, we’ll learn more about the mechanisms, you know, over the, over the next 5 10 15 20 years. But that that core, that core kind of function of these wavelengths of light being able to help your mitochondria in your cells produce more energy. That’s That’s why we see such a such wide ranging benefits when it comes to the red and near infrared light.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So what’s the number one benefit you’re seeing your customers experience? Like? They’re like, Hey, I plugged in, I used it my first week. This is what I’m feeling. I love it. What is that typical feedback.
Scott Nelson: There’s probably there’s probably, you know, three or four core core benefits that that we hear back and that are also supported by probably the most science what would be skin health. That’s it’s very, very quickly That it’s it. You’re gonna, you’re gonna be hard pressed to find someone that uses red near infrared light, especially red light on a consistent basis that doesn’t that where their skin doesn’t look better over time.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’ve noticed my skin tone the last week is really even just gonna say it looks good glowing. Yeah, it’s really glowing. So I’m like, Okay, this is good. I’m gonna do that five minutes after this five minutes after work. This is great. I like it.
Scott Nelson: Yeah, yeah. So that that’s one of the key benefits. And then there’s, there’s a few others that really stand out to most most people that that purchase our devices that are trying to reduce pain and inflammation. That that’s one of the they usually see pretty, pretty dramatic results, it kind of depends on on how severe that pain is and whether they see like immediate results after maybe one session or if it takes you know, two to two to three weeks but the reduction of pain and inflammation is a is another you know core benefit as well that we often hear so skin health reduction of you know, pain and inflammation. And then there’s a few others. We have got a lot of a lot of kind of fitness enthusiasts that that purchase our devices to the Typically, they find that they recover a lot faster after training. So they know, you know, they know how, you know, after doing maybe a typical hit workout or a CrossFit workout or something like that, they know how their body typically feels, and using red and near infrared light, especially near infrared light, you know, they’re seeing some pretty, pretty significant decreases in turn in terms of their, their recovery time. So, muscle recovery, that’s another big one. And then there’s kind of some early early interesting things that we’re beginning to study ourselves as a company, one of which is hormone health. That’s another kind of emerging kind of benefit that we we hear a lot back from from customers on, you know, that have done blood work and they’re seeing these bio these these biomarker changes with respect to different different hormones, and that’s kind of another kind of emerging kind of health health benefit. That’s that’s interesting as well.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s great. You said a couple things I want to circle back to but I want to just hit this off the back because I specialize in thyroid health, and I see hundreds of patients that have autoimmune thyroid disease like Hashimoto is for instance, and I’ve used Red light therapy where they’ve kind of really gotten close to the device gotten their, their throat right up to there. And we’ve seen a reduction in their antibodies and swelling and how they felt. So I’ve noticed it clinically seeing that antibody reduction and just seeing the symptomatic improvement, swallowing tightness reduced. So I think that’s phenomenal. Really cool.
Scott Nelson: Yeah, yeah, it’s certainly exciting for us. And this kind of there when you look at like the pub list, pure peer reviewed evidence around light therapy and hormone function and really specifically the thyroid. There is some some interesting data for sure. But it’s it’s fairly limited. But over the past two to three years, we’ve seen a ton of responses from our customers that have like Hashimoto is as an example or some sort of thyroid condition, or just like guys in general that are like, man, my, I’m on TRT and it’s not you know, that’s the only way I can keep my testosterone up as an example and they’re doing you know, pre and post bloodwork. You know, what, before and after using, you know, red light therapy. And so we like those two things, you know, the lack of kind of the minimal amount of Existing evidence combined with like a lot of anecdotal, you know, feedback from our customers is kind of, sort of caused us to look at this even further. And in fact, we just wrapped up a clinical study with a group in in Minneapolis, Bristol cone medical, where we actually study this. We took both male and female participants and looked at progesterone to Ester dial ratios and women and then testosterone to estrogen estrogen ratios in men. And the two, the two groups that we looked at were people that just they were on a normal, you know, kind of standard American diet, and just incorporated red light therapy. And then the other group, Incorporated red light therapy, and then also did the ketogenic diet. And so we looked at those those two cool cohorts in this particular study really interesting. In fact, we’re recording this year in in kind of mid to late January, and one of the one of the researchers, Dr. Kelly, get us is actually going to be presenting the data at the metabolic health conference here in Southern California this weekend, but really, really interesting results. Yeah, for sure. And Just to kind of just to kind of follow that up the the participants that that ate a normal, they didn’t do anything, the only thing they did probably was introduced red light therapy. So eight they’re kind of normal normal diet. They saw significant increases in both testosterone and men and estrogen I’m sorry, progesterone in women, really significant, statistically significant differences. But then when you looked at the group that was on a ketogenic diet, and then introduced red light therapy into their daily routine, they saw phenomenal increases, it was like it’s it’s, it’s mind blowing, I mean, we’re talking about 50 to 100% changes and in testosterone, and progesterone. So really, really compelling. It appears that there’s definitely some some metabolic synergies going on, when it comes to, you know, red light therapy and our body’s ability to produce those, those those, those hormones.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So what’s the mechanism right, like, I’m just trying to wrap my head around this. I’m thinking okay, well, we know red light has a major effect on inflammation. We know the more inflamed you are, the more your glandular system is kind of always hardwired to deal with stress and inflammation. healing, recovery, reproduction right, these hormones are all reproduction hormones, but they also help you as well put on muscle feel great, but the more stressed you are, the more you’re going to make your anti inflammatory stress hormones to put out the fire. So I see one possible mechanism is just reducing inflammation I see the other one is mitochondria and all these glandular tissues as well. We’re enhancing mitochondrial function which has to then on the other side, increase glandular output my kind of in the right wheelhouse there What do you think?
Scott Nelson: That that would be my hypothesis is is is what you just recall there Dr. J. And that’s actually what what Dr. Give us reported back and one of her conclusions is like this, this ability for red and near infrared light to reduce what she she referred to as metabolic congestion. So think of like cars going down a busy Interstate and you got this traffic jam. And that’s what kind of happens in in our in our in our mitochondria where if we’re overloaded with food, if our if our mitochondria has too many different choices when it comes to food, or to freedom to to too many different choices to fuel itself. There’s like a log jam basically you get you get you get sort of you know cars leaving yeah backed up cars kind of blocking you know changing lanes and red near for lights ability to like enhance cell signaling and reduce that congestion may lead to you know some of these some of these enhancement enhancements when it comes to hormone function there’s other people though that believe, you know, with guys as an example, that that the the light excels in our in our testes that you’re responsible for producing testosterone that you’re you’re helping the mitochondria, those cells function better and a byproduct is more testosterone. I don’t I think there may be some some merit to that, but I think it’s actually more of a metabolic and metabolic kind of mechanism. But nonetheless, there’s, we hope to learn a lot more about like what’s really going on there in terms of the the mechanism, but it’s, it’s it’s pretty interesting and just to reiterate, I tend to agree with you that it’s probably it’s probably, it there’s there’s something systemic going on versus like, you know, a direct therapeutic effect on a particular cell type.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And when you say metabolic you mean kind of modulating that the mitochondria. Right?
Scott Nelson: Exactly. Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay. All right. Very cool. And I know I think I think it’s correct that every cell in the body has a mitochondria except the red blood cells. So it makes sense that, you know, those cells would all have a mitochondria and would be would benefit from that. So that makes a lot of sense. You know, from an application standpoint, what does that look like? So if you’re, you’re a guy, I mean, are you just trying to get your kind of general area four to six inches away from the red light? Or do you have to be right up against it? So if I’m inflamed, my shoulders hurt right to be right up against it a couple of inches. I’m trying to have glandular modulation do I’d have my my genitals are my ovaries, like within a couple of inches? I’m right up against that, that wall. How does that look from an application standpoint?
Scott Nelson: Yeah, you want to be pretty close to the device. And this this comes down to really the power that’s delivered from from the device, generally speaking, like we’ve had our products independently tested. So we like we’re really, you know, we acutely understand like the dose of energy that’s being delivered at a certain distance from our device, which is why we recommend generally speaking about Six inches away from our from our product, but it kind of depends, but generally speaking, yeah, you want to be pretty close. You know, if you’re, say you’ve got a bum shoulder or something like that, and you’re trying to reduce the pain and swelling as an example, yeah, you want you want the device to be pretty, pretty close, you know, we’re talking inches you don’t I mean that the further you The further you get away from any type of device, even if it’s a high powered one, the the power or the radiance that’s delivered from it drastically drops off and it’s not linear, it’s not one to one. So like, as an example, at about 12 inches away from our device, the power that’s delivered to your tissues really, really begins to fall off pretty dramatically. So what that means is you just in order to receive the same clinically relevant dose of energy, you have to use it for a lot longer period of time. And so if you want something like that’s short and impactful, and you know, includes kind of that clinic, like a clinically relevant dose of energy, like Like I mentioned, you want to be pretty pretty close to the device.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And if you have inflammation issues, you probably want your body almost touching that right my shoulders hurt. I must want to be right up against it, right.
Scott Nelson: Yeah, you got I mean, we recommend some distance from from from the device, just because we’re not, if you’re if you’re right on top of it, you can do it can result in like set like a heating effect. And that’s not what we’re really trying to do. We’re not trying to induce like a sauna type type effect. But But yeah, you want to be pretty, you know, you want to be generally speaking, you want to be within, you know, inches, you know, three to six inches.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay. Yeah, I know in the manual, it says four to six. That’s good. That’s really good. Alright, cool. So we have that and then we can just get our body within that four to six inch bubble and we’re pretty good there. I also noticed it. My son, I five month old son Hudson has having a little bit of eczema. So we’re doing a lot of different diet tweaks and things like that. We’re on top of that, and we’re starting to do a little bit of the red light on XM for the X amount of skin. What have you noticed with autoimmune skin issues like eczema?
Scott Nelson: Yeah, that’s, that’s another kind of overall skin health is is supported by a lot of peer reviewed science. When it comes to you know, red light therapy, but certain skin conditions are really super interesting, as Especially those that are that are autoimmune autoimmune related and so yeah, there does appear to be a positive effect when when using you know, red light therapy for you know skin conditions like you know, rosacea, eczema psoriasis. And it kind of depends. It’s like, I’m sure there’s I’m sure there’s like a direct physiological targeted kind of effect with, you know, when in terms of I’ve got eczema on my face, and I’m shining the light right out my face. Yes, there’s probably a direct effect there. But I also I also tend to think that if it’s auto immune related, and you’re exposing your full body to red and near infrared light, there’s probably a inflam a positive inflammatory response as well. That’s also helping. So but but yeah, that’s that’s certainly that’s certainly an interesting category. We hear a lot. We hear a lot of positive feedback from customers that that are seeing benefits when it comes to you know, red light therapy and conditions like that.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s obviously modulating the immune system, probably just through inflammation reduction or just bumping up the mitochondria. there any other mechanisms that You could think of why it would be modulating the immune system.
Scott Nelson: Yeah, there’s it there appears to be a shift in our immune system from what’s you know, an M one phenotype to an M into phenotype where immune system becomes just, I kind of like I like to use, it’s just kind of a, maybe a silly example, but I kind of think of like Pac Man, everyone understands, like, yep, old school Pac Man, when our immune system begins to shift to an M to phenotype, like, our white blood cells become more Pac Man, like, you know, so they’re able to kind of Eat up, you know, cells that we don’t that we don’t want around. And so you do you see a positive immune response. And I mentioned one of the other mechanisms of action that we’re learning a little bit more about, is is this ability for reading near frehley near infrared light to stimulate TGF one beta, which is a pretty important cytokine in terms of within kind of the broader immune immune function or immune system, and that’s something that Dr. Praveena Ronnie touched on a recent a recent interview we did with him. He’s one The one of the world’s leading researchers in the world of photobiomodulation. But that’s that’s something his lab is learning a lot more about is that, that ability for, for these, these wavelengths of light to stimulate that that really important cytokine.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool. Excellent. So lots of good benefits there. And then a couple questions, so why is it? People have issues with fluorescent light? They’re in buildings. What’s that frequency? What’s that doing? And why is that so noxious?
Scott Nelson: Yeah, it could be it could be fluorescent, it could be just any any poor source, right? It could be a cheap led device. It could be a bad incandescent source, but it’s the fluorescent light doesn’t is not necessarily the negative impact is not necessarily because of the brightness of the light, like the white light it delivers. It’s more of the the the the flicker effect that’s happening with the flicker. Yeah, yeah. And so that’s kind of a sometimes that that led is get a bad name as an example, but it comes down down to like the wavelengths that are delivered from that light and whether or not the sort that the actual sources is high quality. And so sometimes you’ll get, you know, inferior fluorescent bulbs that do have a tendency to flicker, and it’s pretty clear that that that could lead to some, some negative, you know, some some bad health consequences, you know, with overexposure to any sort of any sort of device. That’s a light source that’s flickering, but again, the key there is overexposure right, I mean, if you’re if you’re five to 10 minutes a day, you know, it’s not gonna hurt you. But if you’re over if you’re inside an office, you know, for eight hours a day exposed to you know, fluorescent bulbs that are you know, have a tendency to flicker probably not great because that’s a long period of time.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So when it comes to that, what’s that frequencies that a blue light frequency?
Scott Nelson: That’s delivering from for me it’s really it’s, it’s more that the pulsing actually that’s that’s going on the pulsing of that frequency of light, right? So it’s most indoor lighting as an example is delivering white or blue light you know, so on the spectrum like we know blues at the at the lower end of the spectrum meaning like 400 ish.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: How about white? Where’s that at?
Scott Nelson: White light? Yeah, it’s even lower.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, it’s even lower than that. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Okay, cool. Very cool. And then I’m just curious with the red light. What do you have the ability to make vitamin D off that at all? Was that strictly ultra violet lights that do that ultraviolet lights?
Scott Nelson: No, it’s just, it’s just UV UVB wavelengths of light.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep. So you had to be on the ultraviolet kind of lower 300 ish range. So you will make no vitamin D off the red light. And then you give an option on the job, which is interesting. You have the red light option, as well as the infrared option. Yes, the point of that. Do you typically should everyone just be doing both? And if they’re not, why would one person do one over the other?
Scott Nelson: Yeah, it’s the major difference is the depth of penetration. So near anitra? Yes, yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Near and vertical red, deeper infrared? Yep, got it.
Scott Nelson: Yeah, and most of our customers, it’s pretty rare that you’d use one or the other. But as an example, like someone that’s just using red light therapy for skin health as an example, they may not respond favorably to near infrared light, maybe they’re prone to hyperpigmentation as an example, and that scenario they may want, they may want to turn off the near infrared light, because near infrared light does have does, I mean, it’s been shown that to stimulate the production of pigment in our skin. So if you if you do have if you if you’re kind of prone to, you know, hyperpigmentation of any of any kind that might not be, you know, a great wavelength to use as an example.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it. could it give you a tan?
Scott Nelson: No, no, that’s not typically not that not that not the response physiologically that you’re going to get from red and near infrared light.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, God, that makes sense. So in general, we probably want to have both frequencies on
Scott Nelson: Yeah, most of our customers doing less and less. It’s kind of a rare use case where you know, you don’t you don’t want to use you know, near infrared light as an example. But yeah, there’s there’s really, there’s there’s a lot of benefits to using both, you know, and you get to kind of get the best of both worlds in terms of both the superficial and Deep depth deep penetration with near infrared light.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it, the only reason why maybe you’re sensitive superficially, but you want the deep near infrared benefits essentially
Scott Nelson: Yep, yep, you got it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And then what about far infrared? I mean, people talk about that too. Is that not as therapeutic?
Scott Nelson: No, that’s that’s what that’s next to like, what’s the difference between red and near infrared? What’s the difference between red light therapy and and an infrared sauna? That’s probably the second most second most common question that comes up, you know, kind of in this in this world. And again, it all kind of goes back to the mechanisms at play when it comes to how our bodies respond to different wavelengths of light. And so the infrared wavelengths of light that you’ll find in a dry Infrared Sauna are most of the time going to be mid and far infrared. So we’re talking about wavelengths in the, you know, 5000 to 20,000 millimeter range. So it’s really really broad spectrum that that infrared spectrum and it’s, it’s a it’s divided up into infrared a, I’m sorry, infrared, near mid and far. wavelengths of light So our devices deliver near infrared, which has been proven to, you know, stimulate ourselves in a certain fashion, where mid and far infrared, those wavelengths, our bodies respond to those wavelengths. That I guess the result is the production of heat, which is why they’re using the sauna. And so, most of that most of those, most of the time those wavelengths those mid and far infrared wavelengths are absorbed by the water in our in our cells. And so, that’s that tends to be why you’ll see dry Sun is used mid and far infrared because they just they do a great job at generating heat, but you don’t necessarily get the same physiological response that you do with red and near infrared light.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it. And then with the red we’re in the we’re in like the six of like the low sevens and then we go up another hundred or so with the near Is that correct?
Scott Nelson: Yeah you got it, you got it-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: and then and then another hundred or so for the far
Scott Nelson: I mean thousands and other thousands so so the the mid and far or the infrared range, the infrared kind of range within that broader EMF spectrum. The infrared range is, you know, anywhere from like 800 nanometers to 20,000 nanometers. So it’s really, really, yeah, it’s really, really broad and with the far we’re at the top end of the 20,000 Yeah, yeah, you’re you’re into the thousands and so our body there’s a different physiological mechanism that’s happening when you’re exposed to you know, infrared wavelengths and heat is a byproduct, which is why, you know, a lot of saunas incorporate or utilize sources that deliver mid and far infrared wavelengths is because they do a great job at producing heat. It’s kind of one of the same things that you you know, the, the infrared heat lamps that you can pick up like at Home Depot or Lowes as an example that the kind of the they have like a red, they typically have a red tint to them. Those those they’re called infrared heat, they’re heat lamps because it’s kind of the name is self explanatory. They do a great job at producing heat, because they’re delivering mostly mid and far infrared wavelengths of light. And so that’s why they do it. Good job at producing heat,
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: But they’re not going to provide that red light as much as like the job would, for instance?
Scott Nelson: you got it. Yeah, different wavelengths of light. So our devices deliver red and near infrared. And it’s kind of it’s kind of, yeah, and, and this, this can get kind of like, you know, technical pretty quick, but it’s just again, it’s just important for anyone that’s, that’s kind of interested in learning more and going deeper, and maybe even potentially, you know, picking up a device, you really want to make sure you understand which wavelengths it delivers. It’s like, it’s like, you know, picking up a, you know, looking at a label on a food product, you want to understand, like, how many how many grams of fat is in this product? Or how many, you know, what, what are the what’s the carbohydrate content and the protein content is kind of the same thing. You want to understand which wavelengths of light are delivered from this device. Because the our bodies respond differently to all these different types of types of wavelengths.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool. Yeah. And I have a joov in my bio hacking layer. And so anyone wants to pick it up. We’ll put a link down below if you guys want to grab that. So let’s talk more about the application. So what’s the typical dose? Are we talking like 10 minutes once a day, can we break it? what’s the what’s the smallest dose for the maximum benefit?
Scott Nelson: Yeah, and we’ve we, we when we first designed our devices we wanted to we wanted a product that could deliver a clinically relevant dose for general health and wellness in a short amount of time. And so with our devices we generally record we talked about the treatment distance you know, kind of that three to six inches away from the device for about eight to 10 minutes per treatment area. So like if you have are like a product like our mini as an example which is kind of like the size of maybe like a 15 inch MacBook you know it’s thicker right worse but like the footprint that’s that’s great for like targeted treatments right if you want to treat your face if you have like a sore hip as an example, great device for that. But if you want a you know, a full body system you know the only difference between something like the Juve mini and something bigger like the quad or the Juba elite is really just coverage area, that’s all it’s the same power the same, you’re going to get the same dose as long as you you’re kind of within that same treatment distance. It’s really just treatment area. That’s the only that’s the only difference. So if you’re, if you’re interested in like, you know, if you’re interested in kind of a full body treatment in a short amount of time, you’re going to want to go with a bigger system, of course.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, very cool. And then when you’re in there, you know, it’s kind of instinctively you want to keep your eyes closed, is it okay, if you look at the light, will that damage your eyes at all?
Scott Nelson: That’s, that’s, it’s that’s a great point. I’m glad you brought it up. Dr. J. Um, the, we’ve actually done as part of like the FDA registration process with our devices, we have to do certain IEC safety testing, one of which is photo biological safety testing, primarily focused on on eyes is that are these wavelengths delivered from a product harmful for your eyes, and we’ve obviously passed those those safety tests, which is why we do not include eyewear with our with our product. But but having having said that, there’s a lot of really, really solid clinical evidence published evidence that suggests that these wavelengths of light are actually very beneficial for your eyes, in terms of just overall vision enhancement, but also reducing symptoms like you know, macular or condition generation. degeneration as an example, so so we actually kind of it aligns, I mean, from our perspective, it’s kind of twofold like our devices aren’t harmful for these wavelengths from our devices are harmful for your eyes. But plus, you’re actually it’s actually beneficial to expose you know, your eyes to these wavelengths of light as well. So you get it’s a, there’s kind of a two a two pronged approach there in terms of our recommendation not to wear eyewear with our devices if as long as you like you’re not I mean, if it’s so bright and you can’t stand it, of course, that you know, you maybe you know, get used to the therapy by by wearing some sunglasses or something like that, but uh, but over time, we tend to recommend try to try to expose your eyes to the to the device, it’s it can be pretty helpful typically-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So a 10 minute therapy you could just do it for a couple of minutes and then kind of close them and relax them or grab some sunglasses that’d be okay?
Scott Nelson: You got it like as an example when i when i i have our biggest system that the the jubilees and when I when I start when I use it, I just close my eyes at the beginning you know and kind of in you’ll notice that it by closing your eyes for a couple minutes, you can begin to open them over over time. You know, your eyes are less sensitive.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And when you have a system that they do recommend just kind of stripping down and going naked right in front of it. Is that kind of the best thing front and back?
Scott Nelson: You got it. Yep. Yep, I don’t I just use it for proactive health, you know, so I’m not I don’t have like maybe a, you know, I don’t I fortunately don’t suffer from like bad conditions or anything like that. So I typically just do the front side of my body, you know, in about 810 minutes, kind of, depending on how I’m how I’m feeling I actually I stand on a vibration plate at the same time. So kind of operation vibration therapy, as well. But I think of that, that’s a great idea that the important point yeah, I mean, stacking different things at the same time is pretty great. Also do some breathing, you know, some some breath work at the same time. That’s a it’s a great way to it’s another kind of stat or thing that I do as part of that, that that red light therapy session, but I think on that note, one of the important points to call out is that and I mentioned this earlier, like some some people, um, they think you know, I’m gonna I’m gonna buy a smaller device and then stand further back from it. And and I can get the same benefits because it looks like you know, my body’s being, you know, fully irradiated with with a slight And I think it’s just important to remember that that when you’re, when you’re farther back from any device, right, even something that’s you know, delivers a lot of power like ours, at about 12 inches or so 12 to 18 inches that the the dosage really, really begins to drop off dramatically. And so just it’s important to remember, like, you can’t really get a full, full body treatment with a smaller device unless you’re literally kind of moving it from body part to body part.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And once you go 12 inches at like a 90% reduction?
Scott Nelson: I’d have to I it’s close to that it’s pretty dramatic. I’m not sure if it’s like 90, it might be like, you know, 70 to 80%. But it’s not like, you know, every one inch away, it’s, you know, the dose is drops off kind of linear like that. It’s not like it really, really significantly drops off. Yeah, you know, foot foot and a half away or so.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, Got it, if that makes sense. Very cool. And I think we hit all the major things. A couple things here. So in regards to competitors, you have competitors out there, what makes you stand apart from other products that are there?
Scott Nelson: Yeah, and I don’t I mean, I certainly don’t want this to turn into a product pitch. By no means So I’ll call out a few things. You know, if you’re in the if you’re in if you’re if you’re into this, you heard people talking about light therapy, you’ve looked at the science and are ready to kind of pull the trigger on our device. First thing I’d say is don’t go by device right away and try to get more natural sunlight exposure, right? That’s free medicine great as a doctor, yeah, Dr. Suppiah, you know, likes to coin it’s free medicine. So try to get more natural light exposure and but you know, if you’re in a climate that doesn’t allow for that, or, you know, we I used to live in the mid in the Midwest and so you get long periods of the year where, you know, you don’t get a lot of natural sunlight, maybe you need to need to supplement your lifestyle with some, you know, with some light therapy. So if you’re in if the next step is to purchase a device, we already touched on this, but make sure it delivers you know, the right wavelengths, red and near infrared, or the wavelengths that have been proven time and time again, based on peer reviewed science. And, and you want you want like third party data to back this up, right. You know, because any, any manufacturer can say, of course, our devices deliver these wavelengths of light but you want you want third party data to support that. So make sure it’s delivering the right wave lengths, Make sure it’s it’s delivering the right power. You can you can get away with using an underpowered device. But again, you just have to use it for long periods of time longer. Yeah, yeah. So you can, you know, there’s not that’s not to say that an underpowered you know, handheld device on Amazon can work. But instead of using it for, you know, eight to 10 minutes, you may have to use it for 30 to 40 minutes, you know, if it’s super underpowered, so make sure that makes sure it delivers a clinically relevant dose of energy. And again, supported by independent third-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Are a number we’re looking for on that.
Scott Nelson: Um, it kind of it kind of depends on what you’re what you’re looking for, in terms of irradiance, and really, you want to look for joules of energy, you want to do that calculation, we’ve got a really health article on our site on how to effectively measure power from from a light therapy device. So I encourage anyone to check out that article if they want to go deeper on that topic, but But yeah, you want to look actually for joules of energy that are delivered from the device so not like what wattage consumed, right? You don’t want to look for consumption wattage consumption. You want to look for those, the inner jewels that are delivered from the device. And so just make sure it make sure you just do your research there and make sure ideally, it’s supported by independent third party data. So wavelengths power and then we’re big believers in full body light therapy. And so we designed our devices to be modular in nature. And because of that, you can start with something smaller, right? Like a like a GIF mini or a juice sola, which is the next size up. You can get your feet wet if you don’t want to go all in with a bigger system. But because they’re modular, they connect together, both physically and electronically. So you can add plug, you can you can add it to it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So you got the solo. That’s what five feet five feet.
Scott Nelson: Yeah, yeah, it’s about Yeah, three. Yeah, yeah, three and a half, four feet. So I’m like that.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And then you could put one next to it and then plug it in, and then it’s there in sync when you turn it on.
Scott Nelson: Right. Got it. You got it. Yep. And that’s kind of that that’s a that’s something that we’ve, we’ve we’ve smart. Yeah, it’s it’s it’s a patented design. And we did that because, because of our fundamental belief that full body light therapy is is more clinically efficacious, but not everyone. I mean, everyone has thousands of dollars to pour into a life this thought like that. There’s like, yeah,
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: allows you to build on to its you don’t have to start over every time. Yeah, one piece. Okay, maybe next year if I like it, I’ll get a second piece for it. And then you have, you know, you got your therapeutic output. That’s great. Yeah, yeah. What about people that have autoimmune skin issues? Like the middle, I go, right, middle I go or melasma issues? Can they can they benefit from this too? Well, that kind of helped even things out or modulate the inflammation? Yeah. pigment stimulation.
Scott Nelson: Yeah, yeah. I mean, in fact, near infrared light can can actually stimulate melanocytes, right, which are the cells that produce you know-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Melanin.
Scott Nelson: Yeah. Yeah. So, um, on that note, though, like so if you if you do if you are prone to hyperpigmentation, you do probably want to stay away from near infrared light. But red light is actually very beneficial, because-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: that’s why you have the option so you can use a button for near infrared and then also just read so you have those options. That’s cool. Yeah.
Scott Nelson: And then and you know, in something like a condition like hyperpigmentation, you don’t want pigment right. Trying to lessen less than your body’s responses. And typically, as you know, Dr. J, there’s a lot of probably underlying things that are happening-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: to dominance or maybe maybe maybe birth control usage, things like that. Yeah,
Scott Nelson: Yeah. Yeah. That early leading your cell is to produce that, that pigment. It’s a it’s an inflammatory response. And so, yeah, so I mean, these wavelengths of light can actually be very, very beneficial in terms of helping with that positive immune response. But on the flip side, just just you know, obviously, you don’t want to use near infrared light if you’re trying to avoid stimulating your, you know, milana sighs to produce more more melanin.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. And I’ve seen some critics online that talked about the talk like that are extra critical about some of the red light devices now their big complaints are I’m not even sure if it’s real or not. They complain about the the flicker rate. What’s your opinion on the flicker rate? does this matter? Does this change any of the therapeutic benefit? What are your thoughts?
Scott Nelson: Yeah, the concept or the subject of flicker is really, it’s a it’s kinda like the Wild West a bit. I think a lot of people are like, tend to over exaggerate it. But I’ll say this with our This is our View one of one of the co founders of g of their son suffered from his, I’ll say is very, very sensitive to, to EMF and flicker his body for some, I’m really I don’t at least I don’t think I am but but he has, he’s actually very sensitive as an example like he’s, I think he’s How old is he now he’s 20. But like in his, in his, in his teenage years, she worked at Best Buy as an example, couldn’t like, it was very, very difficult for him to function inside that, that that environment because all of those devices, all of that lighting, constantly emitted, emitting some sort of modulating flicker, or, or just it’s a bad it’s not a great source of you know, of light from a wavelengths perspective. So anyway, I say that because we’re very cognizant of trying to reduce EMF and flicker as much as possible with our devices. So we’ve implemented you know, various design various various things in our in the design of our products to help help lower those as much as possible. But when it comes to flicker, it’s overexposure that’s critical, right? If you’re, if you’re if you’re using something like our juice solo device for eight to 10 minutes a day, like, we’ve won, we’ve reduced the flicker as much almost as much as you possibly can with the device. it’s plugged into the wall. And we have independent data to back to support this. In addition, you’re only using it for eight to 10 minutes a day. So you know, I mean, it’s, it’s, you know,
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: if it was harmful, you wouldn’t be seeing the studies producing some of these positive benefits. Yeah, it’d be some kind of confounding variable in there.
Scott Nelson: Yeah. And and I hundred percent and then I In addition, it, there’s actually a lot of evidence that suggests pulsed light, right? So basically intentionally causing a light therapy device to flicker right to post that a certain modulation can actually be like much more efficacious than continuous wave light therapy. Right? So there’s actually there’s actually and most photobiomodulation researchers agree that the evidence is like overwhelming that actually pulling So intentionally inducing a modulation, a modulation type of effect can actually lead to better better results. So I think long story short, like, don’t get me wrong, I don’t want to under appreciate like the whole flicker and EMF topic by any stretch of the imagination and we’re very cognizant of designing devices around for that and trying to mitigate those two things as much as possible. But there’s, there’s a lot of like misinformation and people generally speaking don’t understand the, the, the impact, don’t understand those two, those two subjects within the context of light therapy.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool. Excellent. And is the device is it an AC current or DC?
Scott Nelson: Uh, it’s it’s a AC you I mean, you plug it in, you plug it into the wall.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, walk out. Okay. Very cool. Excellent. Is there anything else you want to leave the listeners here with I mean, this is kind of my soup to nuts Compendium. I’ll be making sure all my patients get access to this and they know the benefits and people can get to use it as a as a resource will have everything transcribed as well so people can get to the information faster. Anything else you kind of want to leave with us Scott?
Scott Nelson: Yeah, I mean the thing that I would probably leave the one or two things that I probably leave everyone listening to this is, is just be more like first step when it comes to kind of light in general just be more cognizant of it right there’s like simple easy steps that you can do to help you know help prevent disruption in your in your circadian rhythm at night as example wearing blue light blocking glasses, replacing, you know, certain light bulbs at home. So just be more cognizant of just your light exposure in general, you know, try to appreciate a little bit more maybe maybe similar to how how focused you are on your diet you know, try to try to try to do the same when it comes to your light exposure and then you know, if you’re if you’re interested in digging into this topic in more detail, we have a wealth of resources on our website, educational articles that on these various you know, benefit categories, whether it’s cognitive function, hormone health scan, etc. So I’d encourage you to you know, if you’re interested kind of just learning a little bit more about the space check out or check out our website and there’s there’s plenty of information there to go deep on.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, Scott, thank you so much. You’re a wealth of knowledge. And again, I love the device. How I wouldn’t have you on the show if I didn’t already think the technology is phenomenal. I think you really said it just right is kind of work with the foundational things that are already there that are already free. Once you’re kind of maxing out that and you want to take it to the next level. This I think is a really powerful tool to add to your kind of biohacking medicine cabinet so to speak, will put links down below. So if you guys enjoy it, want to check it out, let me know we’ll put the link down below. Feel free to get it there. Also, I’m going to do more videos in the coming weeks with my joov device. You really inspired me with the vibration plate in front of the joov. I’m like, Oh, I’m going to do that. I’m going to make that happen. So thanks, Scott, for your great feedback and knowledge. Anything else you want to leave?
Scott Nelson: No, no, that’s it. Thanks. Thanks for having me on Dr. J. Really appreciate it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Thanks so much, Scott. You’ve a great day.
Boost Your Longevity and Mitochondria – Collagen Amino Acids with Dr. Friedlander Podcast | #256
Boosting longevity and mitochondria are some of the things that people are so interested to know because they want to know the secret in living longer, as well as the quality in their year’s energy focused cognitive function. Join Dr. Justin and Bernd Friedlander as they talk about longevity, amino acids and a lot more.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani
07:30 Important Amino Acids
21:30 Fat Burning
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And we are live is Dr. Justin Marchegiani in the house with Dr. Bernd Friedlander. Dr. Bernd. It’s really exciting to have you on the show today. What’s going on?
Bernd Friedlander: Oh, I’m just excited to be with you. Like always.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, I’m really excited here too. So let’s dive in. I mean, you’re, you’ve been in this field for 40 plus years clinically. Your functional medicine, also Cairo documented in the supplement industry for a while you work with athletes, you work with the everyday population. And you have a lot of experience on a lot of different topics. So I wanted to pick your pick your brain here, one of the first topics I wanted to dive into is longevity. A lot of people are interested in improving the in the amount of years they’re going to live, but also the quality In their years energy focused cognitive function. What are some of the first steps that you see clinically that have really moved the needle in that department?
Bernd Friedlander: Well, I think a lot of it is, you know, we’re looking at environmental factors and what dictates our lifestyle is going back 65,000 years ago when we were out and outdoors, and we had no computers, no cell phones, no technology, no EMR. So I think that is another problem we’re seeing today because I think today, the youth of, you know, what we’re seeing is indoors. They’re indoors and working indoors and computers and cell phones and video games. So they’re changing the quality of their life, but also it’s affecting the brain chemistry of the brain. And, you know, depression, anxiety disorders is very high now, as you know, and I see a lot of that. And the other thing is everybody doesn’t understand what’s the right diet, you know, they all think, you know, they go on veganism they go in high protein, you know, diet, low carb diets, you know, a lot of it is activity also what do you do on a daily basis that dictates what you eat. But one thing I tell everybody in the morning as get a little sunlight in your eyes, so you start activating all those important neurotransmitters that the brain needs the mitochondria needs. And I always say have a good protein drink in the morning or a protein meal. And that means over EZA so software legs, and it’s got to be pasteurized and I use ghee butter to get my day going, and I take about 30 grams of collagen every single morning and that’s pretty much my diet and that sustains me to go through many hours throughout the day without really getting fatigue, mentally and physically and I don’t really want to eat much. So that’s sort of like what we call intermittent fasting. And oh, and that’s the other big thing is, you know, is the quality of food versus what people eat, you know, and that’s important calories in calories out. But what type of calories are we consuming today?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So that’s really interesting. So I always tell my patients, you know, especially ones that have metabolic issues, adrenal issues, or thyroid issues, 30 grams of protein in that first 30 minutes, especially if we’re having blood sugar, energy issues, those amino acids really they start the day they’re going to provide building blocks for a lot of your neurotransmitters, your stress hormones, a lot of your you know a good chunk of your hormones that are peptide based, meaning amino acid base, and I start my day with about 15 to 20 grams of my true collagen in my coffee in the morning. I do just the carry gold, better unsalted add a little bit of vanilla extract there. So that’s interesting. You have a very similar routine. Can you talk more about collagen and intermittent fasting so some would say having that collagen in the morning may throw you out of a fasting state are you technically still fasting or at least a modified protein fast with still fast with the collagen in the morning?
Bernd Friedlander: Well, here, you know I had a chance to meet Dr. And, and Marie Claire, both out of Einstein University has done a lot of work in the intermittent fasting scene. And the work I was looking at and working with was a tough itchy, you know, tough issues where we recycle the junk before it accumulates and causes DNA damage and damage. So one of the things that she discovered was if you eat, let’s say, seven o’clock at night, and then don’t eat another for 12 hours, the next day, you are creating what’s called a typology. And that’s what fasting is all about. You know, it’s creating something where the body recycles the junk and utilizes for energy, rather than accumulation and damage and that’s what happened. So, what I tell people is the first thing in the morning, you want to get that brain going, you want to get that body going, you want to keep IGF one insulin growth factors down, you want to prevent em tour pathways, which are all these two pathways. So the leading pathways to aging and disease and cancer and heart disease and diabetes. So the best way to do that is yes, fast 1214 hours from lung last meal to the next day, but have some protein and I think the best protein is something where you consume like cheese, eggs, something that you know if you like fish, but it is important that you don’t go in the morning without having a good meal because it affects the rest of the day for you and how you sleep at night. So I think collagen is important, and I think collagen taken. There was a study that was done and I was involved 2030 years ago, with notch gelatin on A study similar to this where you take 15 grams of collagen, three or four times a day, you actually repair and regenerate tissue cartilage and bone much quicker and you prevent damage from exercise. That’s the key is the damage that accumulates after exercise if we don’t consume the right foods before and after.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting I know a lot of those pathways that are being hit are the tour pathways. I want to talk about that in a minute. So having good amounts of collagen is a great start to the day and the thing I like about collagen is the amino acids are coming from typically connective tissue, we’re not getting a lot of connective tissue, we’re getting a lot of a lot more of the muscle kind of protein which is much higher and refining and with some of the college and you’re getting a lot more glycine which is a good precursor for Luda thigh own. It’s also good, good tissue and building blocks for your own connective tissue, hair, skin, nails, joints, and we’re kind of a muscle meat based society so we’re getting exposed to some different compounds too.
Bernd Friedlander: Exactly. And the other thing about, you know, collagen, it’s very a non inflammatory of bone of all the proteins on the market today, including milk and cheese and eggs and all that there is some inflammatory mechanisms there. But when you take collagen, which are devoid of these three amino acids, which lead to em tour pathways, it’s the only protein that does not have the three amino acids that cause oxidative damage.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Can you repeat those amino acids again?
Bernd Friedlander: It’s tryptophan methionine and cysteine and they’re the ones that were shown in research to have less oxidative damage-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Which is the precursor to five ACP and serotonin, melatonin cysteine, which is the glue to find precursor much higher and whey protein, and then methionine
Bernd Friedlander: methionine, yeah. Richard Miller did a lot of work in this area and so has a repeat and when I was Working in the caloric restriction diet discovered, that’s why caloric restriction works, it’s because you are eliminating these types of amino acids in your diet, you’re really cutting down quite a bit of this. And so you’re getting less of that. And therefore, you’re, you’re not causing oxidative damage or mitochondrial damage or thyroid damage, they lead to, you know, suppression of, you know, oxidation of glucose. And that’s the problem. And it’s well known that these amino acids can lead to em tour pathways, which can cause abnormal cells to grow faster, like cell cancers require the tour pathway, which are these amino acids, to allow them to replicate faster and grow.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And interesting. So essentially, what you’re saying is we want to we want to keep the tour down. So if we can keep the proteins and again, at least starting the day off this way, kind of gives you the That, that 12 to 16, maybe even 18 hours of living some of those amino is obviously just not eating is going to decrease insulin. Anytime you have food, especially carbohydrate, little bit of protein and very little fat, you’re going to start stimulating insulin, which is going to be a growth factor, it’ll increase the IGF one. So you’re saying, keep the insulin IGF one low, try to keep them methionine, cysteine and tryptophan down and we can do that by using collagen in the morning and that’s also going to be keeping the tour down Is that correct?
Bernd Friedlander: Yes. And when you also take it at night, you are suppressing these amino acids from being developed at night, which are sort of stressors. These amino acids can lead to stressing the body by increasing cortisol levels and, you know, a nitric oxide and other areas of that area where causes mitochondrial damage thyroid damage and replication of cells the immune system especially at night
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We don’t want too much because we do know there’s a lot of data on like, for instance 16, from whey protein having a really good impact on boosting gluten. And we know glutathione’s good, but also tryptophan is very helpful. I mean, you know, the work of Julia Ross talks about tryptophan and helping with serotonin and mood and sleep issues. So is it just the sheer amount of it because we know there’s some beneficial effects in the literature?
Bernd Friedlander: Yeah, but there’s also a lot of research has shown that serotonin, which is also a culprit, and when it gets released from the platelets, it goes through the blood brain barrier, it carries through the album into the blood brain barrier, actually, it causes more problems their serotonin leads to depression, anxiety disorders, and it’s also mechanism for Alzheimer’s.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We talking about the amount of because we know there’s a lot of studies and you know, a lot of clinical data on on using for instance, five HTTP and seeing lots of mood improvements. So how do you flush that out,
Bernd Friedlander: you know, It’s interesting when five HTTP came out, it was used by a lot of patients of mine. And I gave a couple lectures and some of the lectures are Silicon Valley at the anti aging conference in San Jose by the program. I asked the people in the audience, I was sort of interested in finding out about five HDB. I said, How many of you take five HTTP, and half the audience raise their hands? I said, How many of you sleep well at night, and all and none of the five HTTP people really raised their hands? They weren’t sleeping that great. They all answered by saying no, I don’t get a complete deep sleep. I don’t get a 567 hours sleep, so disrupts their sleep pattern because serotonin is also a stressor in the body. It’s not just we need serotonin, but very little actually and serotonin also suppresses thyroid function and if you have a low thyroid and a high serotonin levels then it’s a culprit to a lot of diseases especially you know Alzheimer’s and we’ve seen in studies where MS patients that we’ve seen a lot of serotonin levels go up in the brain when they from MS patients done by a number of clinical studies at UCSF and also other clinics.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So you saying with everyone or just some people that serotonin at a higher levels and to be a problem.
Bernd Friedlander: everyone it’s, it’s, it’s known to, you know, create a lot of disturbance in the proper function of the cells. It disrupts serotonin does disrupt mitochondria, NAD levels.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We just had I’ve had I’ve had a lot of beneficial effects using five ACP with BCX. with patients though, again, you know what, when I’m doing it, I mean, I’m fixing everything diet, lifestyle, gut. So I mean, I mean-
Bernd Friedlander: I know It’s also using a lot of collagen your products so
Dr. Justin Marchegiani : and MBC to be six is really important. You can get five HTTP or a lot of these amino acids but be six is really that important cofactor to help with the, the synthesis of a lot of these things. Plus, we know serotonin has a major role also in gut parasitosis gut function is really, really important as well with serotonin.
Bernd Friedlander: Yes, no, I mean, if you use five HTTP correctly, the way you do it, most doctors don’t do it correctly, they do too high of a level and they don’t have the other things with it. And-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly, you need good other, you know, baseline amino acids. And you also have to figure out why the five HTTP is low. To begin with, I mean, I’ll test a lot of it the organic acids, so I’ll look at a lot of five hydroxyurea last day, which is a precursor to it, or it’s a metabolite of it so you can kind of get a window into it. And you have to fix the gut absorption. And a lot of people based on their stress. They have a lot of hydrochloric acid issues and they can’t really break down their protein. What’s your experience with just people Having poor protein digestion.
Bernd Friedlander: Oh, that’s very common. And you mentioned a very important thing B6 and zinc.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very important, very important too. Yep.
Bernd Friedlander: Yeah. And helping with digestion. Another thing also, if you’re low in thyroid, you’re not producing digestive enzymes, hydrochloric acid as much. And if you’re low in thyroid, your metabolism slows down anyway. And if you’re not consuming sea salt and ACL, which is a precursor to manufacturing yours, enzymes, it’s necessary. Salt is really how it all started this the precursor to all of hydrochloric acid and Pepcid and all that. And nobody really consumes a drink sea salt, pure 100% clean sea salt in water and one teaspoon in the morning and evening seems to help people with low acids.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You any my patients who are listening they know I recommend a half a teaspoon to a teaspoon of Redmond’s Real Salt or Himalayan Or Celtic salt in the morning. And in the afternoon, I think it’s really important and are drinking a really good quality like mineral water. I like to put Chico Pellegrino is also good bosses good, which has a lot of different minerals in there as well, which are super helpful for the building blocks of a lot of the hydrochloric acid. So I hear that it makes sense. Yeah. Tell me a little bit more, what’s your elevator pitch on em tour, like, we know, we want it to go down. And we know that protein dropping protein down helps drop it at least in that fasting level. But we also want to have protein. So when we eat protein, we it will spike, but it’s kind of more of having a period where we don’t, and then a period where we do so we’re kind of creating this rebound effect. Can you talk a little bit more about that?
Bernd Friedlander: You know, and tour is very essential in the early stages of life, because up to the age of 25, we need it. It helps to build muscles and helps to stimulate growth factors. So we need that. So that’s very important. After a certain age, the tour pathway works differently, it starts helping accumulate other cells to grow as well, you know, abnormal cells, cancer cells, they require this pathway in order, you know, to start stimulating their growth and their, you know, their spread is also done by m tour pathways. So, it’s when you have HIF it’s, you know, hypoxia, less, you don’t have enough oxygen and accumulating in the cell correctly, and it’s not being utilized for energy at all. But it takes a different pathway and to lactic acid. So that’s the problem we have when tour and lactic acid gets involved together, they seem to go into and stimulate more of abnormal cells and but the tour pathway is controlled by, you know, the types of proteins we accumulate in our body. Whey protein and milk protein and all these other proteins will, will lead to empty your pathway. And one of the research done 20 30 years ago was that if you balance it with a gelatinous food like collagen or gelatin, anything that’s gelatinous, it seems to negate them these factors in these proteins so it balances the protein. So when I was working with athletes, for instance, and they were consuming a lot of these amino acids that are trip the famous line 16 in the way products, but they were also having a lot of issues with kidney problems. They were having issues with cardiovascular problems, he’s a massive amounts of athletes. So you want to make sure that when you’re doing this, you balance these amino acids and the only way I was able to find that was in research was using gelatinous collagen. It seems to balance the negativity effects of the amino acids and it doesn’t stimulate em tour and I’ve seen it with hundreds of my cancer patients when I added college into their diet. They went back and had an MRI done. Some of them still continue doing PET scans, which I don’t recommend, but the MRI showed that their cancer cells stop growing and almost went into remission.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And so regarding em tour, insulin is going to drive up them tour so too much carbohydrates too much, you know, glucose and we know PET scans are basically giving yourself they’re giving you radioactive glucose and they’re seeing where it’s going because they know the cancer cells are going to take it up. So you’re saying on one side, we can decrease some of the protein. The other side we can modulate the carbohydrate in a good range. And then number two is trying to get more collagen based amino acids which aren’t going to spike the tour as much. And you also say you can still kind of be more ketogenic while taking collagen too?
Bernd Friedlander: Absolutely because, you know, as you know, ketogenic diets are basically two things high fat and high protein. And that’s how you, you know, stimulate the ketogenic factors in the body. So-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: There’d be some people that would say high fat, but then some people say more moderate protein just because they’re trying to modularize glucose, Neo Genesis and some people are talking about the fact that you can increase glucose a little bit just through glucose, Neo Genesis. So is there is there a percent protein that you like for a ketogenic template?
Bernd Friedlander: You know, I’ve always say that it’s again, the amount of energy that you expire, and the type of physical activity you do during the day. So if you’re more of a weightlifter or more of a bicyclist or somebody, you’re going to need a little more protein than somebody who’s not working in extra I feel as much but you want to make sure that you know we found that after age of 60 the requirement for protein is much greater at that age than any other. So you want to make sure when you’re over 60 you start consuming more protein and fats. And the problem with fats is you know, fats are very highly unstable and you know, unless you eat saturated fats right but there’s also a minimum amount they found that too much fats of even saturated fats can cause problems so you have to know how to control that and you got to take certain antioxidant like vitamin E to help the lipid oxidation factors of NC Yeah, yeah. So the one I found was really good as ghee butter, ghee butter seems to give you more balanced, it has a lot of antioxidants, vitamin E, beta carotene, and it can, it’s clarified so it is a different form. fat and it helps accumulate a fast metabolism in the body. And so those MCT oil, you know, using those two will help with facilitate, but you don’t want to take too much you want to be in the right ranges. So I think fats are important but don’t overdo it with too much because it can cause late on with lip it oxidation, and it doesn’t make a difference what form of pats bats because then you have free fatty acids which are signaling factors to aging anyway.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And then how to fat burning how does that affect the mitochondria? I’ve heard that you know glucose kind of as a more dirty are fuel to to kind of burn regarding oxidation and fats a little bit more of a cleaner fuel. I know there’s a book by Kristofferson called tripping over the truth, it’s about cancer, and he looks at cancer as being a mitochondrial issue. And he talks about fats essentially being one you’re not fueling the cancer as well, but you’re burning a cleaner fuel source.
Bernd Friedlander: You know, it’s interesting with cancer because that’s probably one of my more concern and interest in I had more experienced since 1980 and researching cancers anybody else because of my father passed away. It’s the Oda Warburg principle where sugar is not the problem. Here, it’s the utilization respiratory change the Krebs cycle, the mitochondria. The mitochondria does not use the electrons correctly, it doesn’t oxidize glucose correctly. So it takes fat and protein and accumulates those into energy and it goes into glycolysis. And instead of oxidation of glucose, which is the normal Krebs cycle pathway, but everything in the mitochondria and a D plus goes up. When oxidation glucose occurs. When electron donation is properly there is the byproduct the Pyruvic acid is not being converted, right and goes into lactic acid. So it’s where if you don’t supply the body, enough sugar, the body goes into a different mechanism and utilizes free fatty acids in its energy cycle. And that is the problem with cancer cells. When you accumulate too much for you, fatty acids from protein and from fats it utilizes to break it down energy, but the end component becomes lactic acid instead of co2 and co2 is a major mechanism for respiratory function to convert back to normal function again, and if we don’t have enough co2, and that’s why high altitude people live longer, and they have less diseases and mortality because they’re accumulating much more co2 in their blood. And if we can raise that co2 levels, that’s the secret and increase the oxidation of glucose, which is what Warburg says is the key component. And that’s where NAD comes into play. And that’s how it works more efficiently by using nice cinema, right? Because nice cinema is a precursor to NAD Plus, and it’s also inhibits free fatty acids. And so those aspirin, aspirin with baking soda cuna taken together inhibits free fatty acids. So now you’re converting the cells back to a normal function of respiration where the end product becomes co2 and water.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right so with our mitochondria we have glycol says which happens outside the cell and then inside the cell that’s we start burning glucose and then inside the cell, we start generating all this acetylcholine which starts pumping the Krebs cycle and then the goal of the Krebs cycles we develop or we generate these reducing compounds NADH FADH 2 and then all these hydrogens from That from the reduction that happens, enters into the electron transport chain. And then we generate more ATP during that process, spit out a whole bunch of co2 and the cycle continues. You want to add to that at all?
Bernd Friedlander: Yeah, no, you hit it right on it. And if we can continue that co2 cycle, that’s the secret. That’s why breathing is important. That’s why when swimmers swim, they accumulate more co2 because of their breath holding, you know, they’re holding their breath while they’re doing strokes. And then they’re letting out the breath. And that’s a very important co2. If you start taking baking soda, it helps with that too. And when you drink mineral water with CO2, you know anything with carbon dioxide, like Pellegrini mode, or the German one general stole just a minor. Yeah, those are very important because they’re accumulating more co2 in your body. And that helps.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And let’s talk about some of these reducing compounds you’ve talked about. Improving NAD NADH what are some of the best ways we can actually do it stuff a mentally diet wise lifestyle wise?
Bernd Friedlander: Okay, supplemental. We know that nice [inaudible] does that and it’s the cheapest form of improving NADAN live.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I’m a [inaudible], what do you thoughts about Nigen?
Bernd Friedlander: Nigen is from Chroma DAX I’ve been using Nigen for several years now I met the company when they started the process of of utilizing milk and they found a component in milk that goes into NR which is the key factor and Nigen does work very well and in some people you know, hundred to 250 a day seems to work very well and I use that myself every day. So I’ve seen very good results from that. And also I’ve used [inaudible] blue with the complex for you know, helping with site cider chrome oxidase enzyme which is also a key component to NAD levels going up. And probably the best thing we have in nature and besides some foods like broccoli help with NAD, you know, we know that beer but you know, there’s a lot of problems with beer too. And insulin growth factors and all that because accumulation of sugar in that body. But beer has a component in there that helps with energy levels. Most of your fruits and vegetables are very good for that. In general, the best thing we can do is sunlight or red light, sunlight and red light helps with stimulating NAD plus. And I think if we get some sunlight in the morning, from from seven to 11, and then the evening from three to five, three to six, we’re getting an ad function
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: and a fats and proteins effect NAD? Does that help because we want that we want these reducing compounds so we can grab all these hydrogens. How does interplay?
Bernd Friedlander: Yeah, we’re, there’s there’s some interesting work being done, where they think that fasting, which I think what it does it, it helps to clean the body out a little bit faster, it helps with the toffee function a little bit better. But NAD is an electron transport mechanism. So any way we can increase electron through these mechanisms of you know, lifestyle and avoiding, you know, blue light, you know, avoiding computers and TV and videos, we’re going to increase NAD levels, and fasting and working out. One of the best things in improving mitochondrial function and add is concentric workouts where you do muscles work where you’re stimulating resistance, but you’re doing it in both fashion where you push, like a push up and then you risk you have resistance going back. So it’s called concentric workout. has been shown to be the greatest form of exercise to increase increase NAD levels and mitochondria.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So interesting. So would that be more of like a super slow kind of training where young slow, but then you’re also resisting on the way back so you’re not just dropping it letting gravity to give you a free ride down,
Bernd Friedlander: You’re 100% right on that. And that’s, you know, the 10 seconds pushing any kind of resistive exercise where you count to 10. And you go down on a count of 10. And any form where you’re pushing against something and you push and somebody pushes you against the movement, you’re using concentric exercise.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And what’s your take on some of these bands that are out now some of these really thicker bands, I’m starting to like them because I’m seeing Well number one, and this week or place here or you know, squat where you could get hurt in the detentions last but then as you go further out, it’s more and then you also have a lot of things tension on the way back to it and it’s like what’s your take on bands for some of that stimulate?
Bernd Friedlander: I think bands are utilized correctly are incredible exercise in combination with core exercise, you know, when you do the core at the same times with the band, meaning if you’re squatting a little bit and you’re using your stomach muscles, you know that squatting, you know, anytime you do a plank, you’re using your core muscles or-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Some lunges and anytime you’re stabilizing your body where you could fall over, you’re using that whole entire core.
Bernd Friedlander: If you use the whole entire core, you’re getting a greater results on the body in full function and get greater mitochondria function and the repair mechanism increases. Athletes when we used to see athletes with the Raiders, Rams and Lakers. I didn’t realize until now what I was doing then. But I realized that when you do concentric exercise, you’re actually decreasing the amount of tension to the joint and because of that You are also facilitating healing and mitochondrial function. I think that’s the key to the concentric exercises is that you’re leaving eating the stress on the joints when you coming after a surgery or bi or having pain or any kind of thing.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So essentially what the con centric, everything’s slow so that muscles always contracting. So if it’s the chest here, and then you’re coming back on here, well, now it’s going to be the back muscles that are starting to shorten the stage on the way down. So front, concentric on the chest on the way out, and then back. It’s going to be more concentric on the way back, right slow.
Bernd Friedlander: Yeah. And when you do a band workout, if you can do a band workout and you put your doctors and you’re pushing out, you want to also have it somehow resistance going back in, you know, so you’re pushing. So you take your hands, and you know, you do like, push like this and then push out this way, but I’m resisting Celebrate do both ways, you’re resisting on both movements. And that is the best way to train a muscle.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent. Yeah, I like that. That makes a lot of sense. So regarding the Krebs cycle and NADH, is there any DS or any other let’s just summarize. So obviously we have nitrogen we have nice minimized. You mentioned some of the vegetable compounds, right? What other compounds can we do to improve NADH? And then what about FADH? To that that kind of gets ignored? Can we increase FADH to it all? Right, ADH.
Bernd Friedlander: Yeah, we can. And, you know, again, I think a lot of it is the quality of life, you know, is the stress reducing your stress value, having a positive attitude, meditation, all these are, you’d be surprised how the respiratory chain uses all this in the mitochondria improves on all levels. One of the things is when you consume foods like you know Color foods like pulp bell peppers, yellow, green and red. They’re very important onions are very important certain fruits like apples have tremendous benefits in that. And if we cook our vegetables specially Aqua ciphers, vegetables and and don’t eat them so raw we break down to cellulose which allows for the digestion to improve and assimilate all the nutrients in that vegetable rather than having too much fiber and causing dissension bloating. I think also, you know, we you know, coffee does that to coffee helps with mitochondria stimulation. People don’t-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Let’s talk about that a lot of people think coffee may not be a good thing. I mean, obviously we overdo it and get too much caffeine or we were a slow caffeine metabolize or there may be a problem there, but can you talk about some of the benefits whether it’s alkaloids and also some of the mitochondria and anti aging benefits with coffee?
Bernd Friedlander: You know, about 15 20 years ago, I met a fellow Radical pathologists, antioxidant expert. And I met him at Stanford when I was working at Stanford at the ESRI department. And I said what we were talking about antioxidants and free route and he says, you know, the greatest antioxidant food we have today, he mentioned was coffee. Yeah. And coffee is truly an antioxidant, has high antioxidants. But one of the important things about coffee, the caffeine is essential for stimulating blood flow and oxygen to ourselves. It helps if you I learned this when I was working at UCLA with the athletes I learned from a cell physiologist. He says if I take coffee and I take an aspirin in the morning, it will increase my uncoupling protein mechanism meaning I will get greater mitochondrial benefits I will get better electron flow better oxygen to myself. And so I started using coffee and aspirin in the morning with the athletes. And not only that improved their cognitive, but their exercise performance and all of that improved dramatically. So I think all of that is, you know, coffee has magnesium, it helps with oxygen. It helps with caffeine. So you get great a flow of oxygen to the brain. And it’s all around probably the best, you know, cognitive drink we have there in nature.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent. And then I know what the aspirin that’s the Seattle that’s the Seattle acetic acid. There are side effects associated with that with alterations and liver issues. Do you feel like the benefits outweigh some of the side effects? Is there a dose issue there? And then also, would you rather use white willow bark or just straight aspirin?
Bernd Friedlander: Well, I’ve been using aspirin for oh god going back since the late 80s and 90s. So I’d learn basically it’s if you have an ulcer it’s going to be created by something totally different. Yeah, h pylori, or actually salt deficiency. I’ve used salt and vitamin E and and getting rid of all the severe ulcers. Yeah. The other thing is aspirin recently came out with a great paper on aspirin shown that it has one of the best mechanisms for a toffee and increasing toffee. So it also helps with try back yellow meaning it helps to stimulate calcium into the bone. So if you’re where you’re breaking bone down, because every time we work out we don’t take enough calcium vitamin D where we’re actually using calcium as an excitatory mineral to handle stresses all the stresses in our life so it gets pulled out of bone. Well, aspirin helps with calcium, vitamin D and going back into the bone and keeping the bones From it also has antioxidant components. It helps with platelet function so it prevents platelets from sticking and clotting together. That’s a big factor of aspirin. But I tell people if they’re going to take aspirin, take a with baking soda, you getting the benefits of the buffering system, you’re getting co2 levels and you’re getting the benefits of what aspirin does without causing a disturbance or this stress in the body in the colon.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Are there any benefits just doing the whole herb that aspirin comes from, which is the white willow bark over the stage?
Bernd Friedlander: I learned this from a veterinarian actually who’s working with us in race horses, and they buy the pure aspirin powder in potassium, magnesium is sodium salicylates, you know, yeah, and they use that rather than than YN for the horses and animals. They require so much of it, that they have to buy the huge bulk. So if you can get potassium, sodium magnesium salicylates, that’s even better and you’ve got to go to a pets you know compound or somebody that works with animals then you can order from them and now you’re getting greater results.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah and then what’s your take on the race syndrome that can happen with the aspirin know that can happen when you’re younger usually there’s a viral infection happening with it. And then so you really want to be careful taking aspirin if there could be a viral infection?
Bernd Friedlander: If it’s you know, that’s something I have not I’ve read and looked at research and I have not found a true paper on that. It’s the same thing with honey they said if you take honey at a certain age, you know it can contribute to this problem to not seen enough of it, but I you know, for a child, you know, if you’re going to give asked me, you want to make sure that child gets very low anyway, extremely under maybe 45 milligrams or less. They don’t need much.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’ll put in the chat here for you an article on aspirin and [inaudible], basically the big thing is it’s just, um, you want to avoid giving aspirin with kids when there could be a viral infection. So in general, just trying to maybe avoid it to begin with until people are older, maybe a good idea. I know people are hearing a lot of the benefits. I just want to make sure they don’t jump on board and, and give it to a kid or just to be on the safe side there.
Bernd Friedlander: Absolutely. I agree.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Well, that’s good. I think there’s some benefits there. That’s excellent. And then what about topically using aspirin? Can you put it in like some DMS or some kind of a lipid normal solution? rub it on the skin of the joints?
Bernd Friedlander: Yes, absolutely. Um, you know, back in the old days, we used to use a lot of that we used to grind the aspirin and then add a little DMSO with it, or anything that our aloe vera anything that helps with driving that in there, you know, essential oils, and it’s a great topical, great topical, because it works. You know, aspirin is one of the few molecules that works on Cox one and two. mean in the prostate gland is wanting to every other anti inflammatory only deals with one of them correct one and that’s it not with two. So aspirin has a greater potential inflammatory mechanisms in anything else and Buswell of those two as well as the only plant that works on both one and two-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Have a curcumin that do both, or?
Bernd Friedlander: No, Curcumin doesn’t work on both only Buswell in nature it was done by a lot of scientific studies done at the University of Florida, Florida AMM by Elizabeth Mazzeo, MA VIO.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent, very good. So what other things can we do to help improve mitochondrial function or just improve longevity in general, you mentioned the aspirin you mentioned the coffee compounds, obviously, you like adding fat and collagen to the coffee which I think is even better, because you kind of time release any of the stimulation that you get from there which is nice. Anything else you want to highlight?
Bernd Friedlander: Yeah. You know, looking at foods like pasture raised eggs is important I acute, you know, we do need protein, there’s no way a vegan is going to survive long term results. You know, most of the people that I reviewed that live 90 to 100 years old and I did a paper back in the 90s or 80s at UCLA, and I found that the people I interview, they were outgoing, they had a positive attitude. They were in sunlight all the time. They were never indoors. They took walks, they never exercise, but they took walks, they ate really well. They had a great breakfast, all of them. I remember telling me about there was 250 people that we interviewed that were 95 Plus, and they all had a good meal with protein. You know they ate cleaner there because they were from different areas where everything was fresh, you know, they could get it from organic farmers. There was no spraying that that time so they ate everything. Anything with grass fed beef, lamb, you know, black cod shrimp. You know, white fish is much better than salmon. There’s less oils in this in these fish, so you’re not accumulating so much omega threes. So a lot of that and also, breathing exercise correctly getting sunlight and sleep. We got to get quality sleep. And I think the most important thing is at night, get away from your computer’s TV. You can watch some TV but no cell phones, no, you know, anything that has an EMR effect on you because you need to lower the frequency of the brain to from 0.5 hertz to 12 hertz at night. That’s the frequency of the brain at night and that’s everything we work with. It’s in gigahertz and megahertz. So we’re over stimulating the cell so I think relaxation at night putting using, you know, red, orange blue lens glasses at night to keep the filter the blue light out of the blue line. You know, that’s the secret, I think more in nature and condensing and eating right? Eat your vegetables and fruits cut back on your carbs, no doubt about it, your grains in your nuts. Those are the way I would do in law in order to live longer and, you know, less illness. And, you know, the thing is, we’re not going to extend the lifespan like some people think 220 30 we’re not genetically designed yet for that, you know, that may happen when we start accumulating with stem cells and we inject stem cells in our body. But right now, we don’t want to have diabetes, heart disease, arthritis, you know, all these things that come up. Now, even at young people at 40 and 50, where it used to be some 60s and 70s and 80s. Now it’s starting to show up earlier.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting. Now you talked about red light there any red light devices that you Like I know you’re in sunny california but most people parts of the world’s getting pretty cold and not quite possible to get outside. What are some good red light devices red light options this time of year.
Bernd Friedlander: Um, I’ve discovered from Europe a you know some light devices that I purchased for Matthew cook who’s an MD who’s one of the premier stem cell fellows in in the Bay Area in Los Gatos and we’re using these panel of lights which produce led red and infrared at 600 watts and then 45 watts and at 24 one so we have different watch. And I have them I have the person and patient just stand in front of it and look into it and that also helps with thyroid and FB. Every day I use it myself over my stomach. I think that’s the key because anyway you shine the red and infrared light It helps to facilitate more oxygen mitochondria function. It helps with cider chrome oxidase enzyme, which is the key enzyme which we know is essential to all living systems in our body. All the photosynthesis occurs with cytochrome oxidase enzyme. All the NAD occurs with cider chrome oxidase enzyme and that is found in the 600 to 800 nanometers range and that’s what we want to increase. So using it, I use it every single day and morning and evening before I go out, and at night before I go to bed, I I stimulate all my joints that I utilize the most my my stomach and I do a little thyroid. I treat my thyroid every day in the morning evening.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting and using red light for all that that’s cool.
Bernd Friedlander: Yeah, we’ll be you know, we’ll I’ll send you a picture of the design we’re working with and I think you’ll like it. It’s something I just brought in about 50 to 100 have mostly empties using it right now because they’re using it for stem cells. And they’re seeing they’re increasing stem cell production with it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent. So red light helps to improve themselves production. And what’s your take on stem cells in general? Obviously there’s different kinds right. And some people are doing it topically some people you know, where they’re injecting it in specific areas. Some are just doing it systematically be an IV, some are going down, I think Panama’s the big hotspot. I think Dallas and Seattle have a couple of areas where you can get it done. What’s your take on stem cells?
Bernd Friedlander: Well, I’ve been doing some stem cells on myself mainly for an injury that I accumulate, playing professional soccer and running and you know, training athletes from my hip. It helps there’s no doubt, you know, platelet rich blood. Blood PRP. Yeah, PRP is very important. It helps to bring down inflammation it stimulates you the production of your own stem cells. There’s no doubt on shoulder and knees, it works phenomenal. I’ve seen results with no surgeries required for the shoulder and for the knee. We’re working on the hip area and it definitely helps improve the quality of life. I think some serious diseases, neurologic neurological diseases, I think even MS and Parkinson’s, I think it’s got great opportunity, I think we’re going to see some great results with it. There’s different stem cells coming from the, you know, different tissue placenta, you know, from the skin, adipose, bone marrow, those have different functions in the body. And I think you’re going to see more and more of this out there. And especially in sports, you’re seeing more professional athletes gravitating towards stem cells today, in less surgery.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, absolutely. Because as soon as you go get surgery and you start tearing through tissue, tissue becomes a little bit weaker, you’re more prone to injury in the future. Also just, you know, the fact that you’re talking about people that have to twitch their muscles and move with such fast level that they lose just a couple of milliseconds off after moves. They could take them out of the professional sport level. So for sure, that totally makes sense. I see stem cells, probably putting a large chunk of surgeons out of business, I just think you’re not going to need surgery for the more chronic wear and tear stuff, I think you’ll be able to come in there with diet, lifestyle, supplementation and stem cell. So it’ll be really interesting to see how, you know, things evolve over the next couple decades.
Bernd Friedlander: Yes, I think also for ligaments and tendons, it’s got greater benefits too.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And I think, you know, the biggest issue is people are still going to use stem cells and forget all the diet things, forget all the lifestyle things and use it as triage. I think when you combine it with the collagen, with a good diet with good lifestyle with the light stimulation, right, all the mitochondrial things we talked about today, I think you really have a greater chance of supercharge in your healing.
Bernd Friedlander: Absolutely. And even the people that the MDS that are doing stem cells, they want you on an anti inflammatory diet, first of all, you know, in order for this to work they want you to accumulate. And most of these stem cell clinics, it’s interesting there are using college and now and they have seen better results. They actually prep the person with college and before they come in, and when they take their own adipose tissue placenta, wherever they get it from. They see a better production of stem cells coming out of those people with consuming collagen prior to having stem cells.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting. Yeah, really fascinating. What other things do you recommend? Is there anything else that you wanted to highlight that you think is important for the listeners to know about?
Bernd Friedlander: Again, I think a lot of it is the attitude positive attitude we have every day and look good life and help others you know Don’t stress yourself out, don’t have negativity but look in the mirror every day and just say I love myself I love everything about me I look great. And then start the day with you know, doing the right things red light, sunlight, collagen, breathing exercise, concentric exercises, you know, don’t you don’t need to go and do a robotic exercise like hours a day. That’s oxidative damage. I think walking throughout the day is very important. accumulating the right proteins, you know, grass fed and all these, you know, things that are natural to us. And eating right. And you know, we don’t need to consume as much we don’t need big plates, we need small food. And there’s been studies that if you feed the body with small meals throughout the day, you increase the thermogenic function of the mitochondria, you’re stimulating the mitochondria to burn more fuel more efficiently and And all of that and then eliminating the stressors, you know, like, being on Wi Fi videos, cell phones, you know, don’t use them as much and, and and use more natural light at night because night darkness is a stressor to our body. That’s it. That’s when cortisol goes up. So we want to keep that down. So take, you know, vitamin D and take an aspirin with baking soda night. Take anti inflammatories at night, you know, that seems to work the best.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right? I think I think it’s the opposite. I mean, cortisol is dropping at night because melatonin goes up cortisol drops, cortisol comes up in the morning and then down at night.
Bernd Friedlander: Yeah, yeah. But yeah, and then cortisol suppresses melatonin. Exactly.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. So as melatonin goes up when you sleep, right, that’s going to help. Yeah, some of that repairing. That makes a lot of sense. What is your supplement regimen look like?
Bernd Friedlander: Again, in the morning, I start with an over easy passionate projects. Yeah, ES I take 30 grams of collagen with vitamin C, magnesium, and I take my and our true nature, you know, which is nitrogen. I take vitamin E, not vitamin E I take that at night, and I take a good because likes in the morning I have to end and then that’s pretty much it and then at night I do again another regimen of collagen with minerals I make sure my calcium magnesium, vitamin D, vitamin K levels are high. So I do that at night with vitamin D and I take every single night and aspirin and sometimes I’ll take tomorrow, but not all the time.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting. Very good. Excellent. Well, you have given us some great knowledge bombs here. I really appreciate it. Any last thing you want to leave with listeners.
Bernd Friedlander: I think you know I think what we need to look at I think a lot of it. I see a trend where people are starting to consume like soy milk Almond milk which are okay soy milk is not good because of the estrogen and raising estrogen. And we haven’t even spoke about how bad estrogen is. Estrogen contributes to lowering thyroid function and suppressing NADNAD molecules in our mitochondria gets suppressed by estrogen of all the hormones that’s why you need you know, progesterone pregnant one testosterone to raise NAD levels. So interesting estrogen down and we need to accumulate a less boost in that area. And I think a lot of the consumption what people are doing today with these soy milk and also almond, you know is a and keeping very important, keep the phosphorus levels down and keep the calcium levels up. There’s a gene called Klotho. KLOTHO is a gene I’ve studied for 25 years. It’s now making a difference. Tremendous regeneration of its you know, research on this shown that it controls aging and diseases and growth though is controlled by vitamin D, vitamin K and calcium and keeping a good thyroid and parathyroid, thyroid functioning and consume less phosphorus foods and you’re nuts a very high and phosphorus and some of the grains are very high. So we want to make more calcium in our diet. We’re not getting enough calcium. People think these these books out there by Tom levy that calcium is bad, actually the opposite. I have worked with a fellow at Stony Brook who reversed his own cancer, pancreatic cancer and hundreds of other people with cancer with increasing calcium in levels that most people won’t even look at.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: His affirmation has enough vitamin K though that higher amount of calcium right?
Bernd Friedlander: We need vitamin K and we get it from kale. If we cook the kale, the juice of the Kale has a tremendous amount of vitamin K. And there’s a lot of cheeses out there like Gouda has vitamin K, and especially-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You’ll probably get it in your GI in the morning as well that you’re mixing your coffee. Right, right. And then the big sources for your Vita for your calcium are obviously going to be maybe some of that cheese as well. Some of the butter and energy and also some of your green vegetables and if you eat any fish that have any, any bones in there, what else would you be getting calcium from?
Bernd Friedlander: Oh, some leafy greens and things like that. But I think the greatest any dairy products have the greatest levels of calcium. There’s no doubt about if you can handle dairy, dairy products from sheep or goat on raw milk. I think that’s where you’re going to get the best calcium. Yeah, yes, assimilate the protein helps the calcium go in more assimilated.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Because we don’t want calcium plaque forming in the arteries so that vitamin K really helps it go back into the bone. So vitamin K into the bone. parathyroid takes it out of the bone and brings it back into the bloodstreams that vitamin K i think is important, and also enough magnesium along with calcium too, because those kind of kind of going back and forth, right?
Bernd Friedlander: Yes, you need both of them.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, absolutely makes sense. Well, you’ve given us some great information here today. I really appreciate everything. Is there anything else you want to leave listeners with that we had everything?
Bernd Friedlander: I think we had everything I think, you know, I think just like I said, is start realizing that we can, you know, Google and find a lot of information don’t rely just on doctors or even myself, read about what’s really the chemistry of life. And that’s what I did. I went back and I wanted to find out who Justin is and who Bernd and who Lisa’s who we are and how this plan came about. And learning about the chemistry of life is the secret to everything that we’re talking about today. It’s photosynthesis, the sunlight, sea salt, the water, the distance of the Sun and the planet Earth. Earth and, and the amino acids and the sugar complex that created all life. And when I went back and studied, you know, 200,000 years ago, 4 billion years ago, when the 2 billion years ago we had a, an organ LO bacteria called the mitochondria, when the mitochondria started developing in a planet Earth, that’s when every living system started being created everything from fish, the animals, reptiles to certain plants and life itself. And how did this bacteria get here was the key and understanding how this key and this organelles develop, I think gave me a better view of what we need to do in ourselves to maintain that organelles, that organelles we need to maintain.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I love it. Dr. Bernd, thank you for all the feedback and little tidbits and advice here really appreciate it. Great chatting with you all and we’ll put burns information down below so if you want to reach out to him, you’ll have all his information down below. Excellent, great shout out to burn you have a phenomenal day. We’ll talk soon.
Bernd Friedlander: Okay. Thank you Dr. You’re wonderful.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Thank you. Have a great day.
Immune System Stress TH1 avs TH2 Immune Response | Podcast #235
Our immune system acts as the body’s defense against infectious organisms and other invaders. With the immune response, the immune system attacks organisms and substances that invade body systems and cause disease.
We may think that immune responses are more of a cause. But it is actually an effect on the way we deal with our bodies. Sometimes, our immune system goes out of balance because of infections or stress. In this episode, get a bigger picture of how we could understand our immune system better so we would know how we could address some problems in the future.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani
In this episode, we cover:
2:07 TH1 & TH2 in Autoimmunity
5:16 Bacterial Infections, Food Allergies, and other causes
7:40 Immune Imbalances
13:09 Different Types of T helpers
20:40 Solutions to the Immune Imbalances
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey guys, it’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani. Welcome to today’s podcast. Evan, how we doing today man?
Evan Brand: Hey man, happy Monday to you. It’s coming up on July 4th so all of our US listeners are probably headed to the grocery store to go buy hopefully, grass-fed burgers for this week. I’m still here, can you hear me?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I hear you. Yep, you’re good.
Evan Brand: Okay, perfect. Yeah, I said everybody’s probably headed out to go buy hopefully grass-fed burgers for July 4th week.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I know, it’s 4th of July coming up man. I got grass-fed burgers, trying to get some more pasture fed pork if I can, gonna do it up really good with some smoked ribs, good grass-fed burgers, gonna keep it real. Really excited man, how about you?
Evan Brand: I don’t know what I’m gonna do. I don’t even have a grill. I do so much cooking, but I do it usually all on my skillet, so I may need to borrow a grill to make a grass-fed burger.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Nice! Awesome. Well, I’m excited to hear. We talked about addressing a talk on the immune system, on TH1, TH2, kind of branch of the immune system, and this is kind of a heady topic just because the immune response is more of an effect, not necessarily a cause. So, a lot of people, they kind of look at like TH1, TH2 that they look at it on and they kind of like it’s hard for them to wrap their head around it and they get so focused on the TH1 TH2 – the immune system stuff. But, that is more of an effect and we have the cause – maybe other infections or stress or that are pushing that immune system out of balance. It’s kind of like you got two kids of different sizes, jumping on a seesaw. Well obviously, the bigger kid goes to the bottom and the ladder kick goes up. You could be sitting there so focused on why is that seesaw doing it, but it’s like well you got a bigger kid going up against a smaller kid, like that he’s not the seesaw right? So when we go over this topic, I just want everyone to look at it with eyes that are looking at the root cause. Like, what’s the root cause and don’t get overwhelmed with all of the extra details that we’ll be addressing.
Evan Brand: Yeah, there’s a lot of talk about TH1, TH2 in regards to autoimmunity. So, we were looking at all these studies and it gets really deep, really quick, but when we look at for example, Hashimoto’s – which is a really common thyroid, autoimmune thyroid issue. That one is gonna be related to TH1 dominance and then also what were the others we found here.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, let’s break it up for people. So, we have these various T-cells, okay. These T-cells can differentiate or mature into different kinds of T-cells. So, we have our thymus which is like, right here in this chest bone area, and we can make these various T-cells. And, they can differentiate the TH1, TH2, TH17, or these T regulatory cells. Okay. The big ones that we’re going to focus on are TH1, TH2. So what influences these cells in what direction, they go in typically, they’re going to be various inflammatory mediated compounds. So the ones that are gonna push TH1 are gonna be interfering — interferon, and then Tumor Necrosis Factor-Alpha. So just.. just kind of ignore the big stuff, just know that there’s some inflammatory compounds that cause this T-cell response on the TH1. Now, TH1 is gonna be.. it’s gonna be your Cytotoxic immune response. So think of T1, it’s like, this is your immediate reaction. This is like, “Hey we’re going to war. This is the Special Forces, this is the Navy Seals, it’s the Delta team, this is the Army Rangers”. These are the people that you want going into that territory first, right? They’re the first responders. Now, the big things that can influence TH1 are gonna be various Interleukins and Cytokines, alright? Interleukins could be you know, Interleukin 6, it could be Interleukin 4, it can be interleukin 5, or 10, or 13. These are various Cytokines that are produced and they could be produced due to inflammation from whatever’s happening in the environment. So TH1’s that part, or I’m sorry TH1 is going to be the TNF alpha, and the interferon. The TH2 is gonna be the other ones I just mentioned. That’s the Interleukin 6, the 5, the 4, the 13, and the 10. So we have kind of backup TH1, Tumor Necrosis Factor Alpha, and then Interferon, TH2, are all gonna be the Interleukins and the Cytokine. So just kind of draw line in your head, TH1’s gonna be the Cytotoxic immediate immune response, TH2 will be the delayed immune response. Think of food allergens driving this. Think of anything that’s more antibody based. These are people. These are the troops that are coming late to the show. These are the infantry that’s coming. You know a couple of weeks after the Army Rangers and Navy Seals have done their Intel and done their initial strike. Does that make sense?
Evan Brand: It does, yeah. So you mentioned the food allergies, and then if someone is TH2 dominant, now there’s different causes of this right? Like you and I work a lot with the gut issues, so we’re seeing a lot of bacterial infections, we see a lot of parasites, a lot of viral infections– it’s not 100% crystal-clear, but, in general, we found most of the bacterial infections those are going to increase your TH1. And, if you’re more TH2 dominant, these are more the food allergies, the people with histamine issues. Now, a lot of people I’ve noticed with Lyme and co-infections and mold, they also complain of tons of histamine issues. So it would make sense based on what we found in the literature, what we’ve seen clinically, which is if people with mold, Lyme, co-infections — these are the ones who report histamine intolerance where they have to go on a lower histamine diet and then we try to use things to stabilize the histamine reaction like herbal antihistamines, and sometimes these people are already put on antihistamines from their medical doctor or their allergist. But really that’s an immune system problem that the drugs are not addressing.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. So just kind of like, recap, TH1, kind of more immediate type of response. That’s where you’re seeing a lot of the nuclear factor, Kappa beta. That’s where you’re seeking to interfere on the TNF alpha, and the TH2, or all these various Cytokines and Interleukins, all right? TH2, they’re making a lot more antibodies. It’s making all those IgG. It could even be the IgE. The more anaphylactic ones, and these are kind of, they’re making those long-term antibodies to help attack whatever is going on. So a lot of autoimmune conditions we may see TH2 response, and a lot of chronic ones like 5 Alger, and a lot of these issues we could see that chronic fatigue, a lot of asthma issues, hay fever — a lot of these long-term conditions that are hanging out a lot longer. We may see these TH2 things. Now, a couple — people couple articles, we’ve seen TH1 tends to be more intracellular parasites, smaller, smaller bugs. TH2 dominance can be pushed up by bigger bugs, or extracellular bugs — bugs that are hanging outside the red blood cells, outside the red blood cells, bigger bugs, you know they’re bigger. They’re not inside the blood cell. The smaller, more microscopic ones kind of like malaria, or Babesia, they’re gonna be inside the red blood cell. Cryptosporidium is another one. That’s gonna be more TH1 dominant. So smaller critters, TH1, slightly bigger critters and ones that hang out outside of the red blood cell TH2. So, when we kind of go over like the science stuff, like I’m just kind of drawing a line here, science stuff, okay, then we gotta focus on the root cause. So when we see there may be some immune imbalances, right. TH1, where you have more TH1 symptoms, or you have more TH2 symptoms, or whether we actually do a test to look at your TNF-alpha, or your Interferon, or whether we actually look at various Interleukin 2 Cytokines. We can look at this stuff, we can test it, which can give us a little bit of a window on what direction we should be pushing the immune system. Sometimes, we don’t even have to push the immune system. We just work on the stressors, the infections, the food, and the gut and a lot of times that immune balance kind of just naturally goes back to where it wants to be, because the body wants to be in homeostasis. So we don’t necessarily have to go and say, “Well, this mushroom supports TH1, therefore, I’m gonna give this mushroom”. We may just want to be focused on the actual infections or those stressors that could be affecting it, and then let homeostasis kind of naturally happen on its own.
Evan Brand: Yeah. I’ve got a test kit actually upstairs. I haven’t run it yet. I didn’t know if you know this, but diagnostic solutions actually has a Cytokine. It’s sort of a pro-inflammatory, anti-inflammatory balance test that you can do. And I believe it’s all based on serum, but I’ve got it upstairs. I haven’t taken it yet, but I’ll .. I’ll put this in the chat for you. Other people won’t see it, but in our chat I’ll put it there. You can look at this sample report. It’s pretty cool, so it looks at all like the pro-inflammatory Cytokine. So it’s got like your Interleukin 18, which we know that ones tied in to Hashimoto’s for example, and it gives you an expected reference range. TNF alpha is pro-inflammatory, it’s got IL 6, it’s got IL 7, IL 8 and then it goes into the anti-inflammatory, which is pretty cool. So the anti-inflammatory, they’re kind of generalizing it here as putting proinflammatory TH1, anti-inflammatory TH2, so you can see here Interleukin 4, 5, 10, 13, 15s, on the anti-inflammatory category. Do you see that sample report?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Correct, that’s pretty cool.
Evan Brand: So actually I should do it now. Doesn’t really change much though. See, that’s the question with things like this right? Like we could spend days and days and days trying to get to the bottom of this and figure out, okay, you know, what are your T helper cells doing? Is your Cytokine balance off? But, if you don’t have a foundation to go back on then you’re really confused with this information. So I find that people may focus on a topic like this, but then they get lost in the science and they don’t really know how to make an action step based on it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%, right? So TH1, TH2, these things are gonna differentiate. They’re gonna go ahead our T-cells, and they’re gonna go one to two directions, for the most part TH1 TH2. And in that process where they differentiate, that’s where all these Cytokines or Interleukins or TNF for all these inflammatory things happen. So think of a lot of the Cytostatic ions, or Interleukins, or TNF alpha or Nuclear Factor, Kappa beta or interference. Think of that as like the exhaust of the immune response. So you have these two vehicles driving in certain directions, and these Cytokines are gonna be the exhaust. So when we go and run a test like Evan talked about, with all these different Interleukins or Cytokines, it gives you a window of what cells are more active. Just like if you’re trying to smell the exhaust to see, is that a diesel car, is that a race car, is that unleaded, you know, you can kind of tell a little bit by just on some of that fuel. It’s the same thing here. And then that gives us more of a clinical window to say, well, how do we get to the root cause? Because we know things like gluten can easily throw off that immune response. We may be sitting here thinking about “Oh what kind of infections can we go after?”, but we may magically be able to support someone’s immune balance just by stabilizing blood sugar. We know blood sugar can increase imbalances or fluctuations, and blood sugar could increase Interleukin 6. Interleukin 6 is gonna be a TH2 immune response. So we could jack up our TH2 immune system by just having big fluctuations in blood sugar or gluten sensitivity. Could be something that really increases that TH2 immune response. So, it may be something that’s not that sexy. It’s not like this crazy infection you have, it just could be some blood sugar stuff. It could be a gluten sensitivity thing. Also, we know low glutathione. Low glutathione is a big stress or two because glutathione is a natural kind of regulator of the TH1 TH2. So that’s gonna have a major effect on our T regulatory cells. The T regulatory cells, they’re kind of the governor that can come in there and kind of tip it and bring it back to balance. Right? So think of lower glutathione as a master balancer. Think of lower vitamin D as a massive master balancer. So if we have poor digestion and we’re not breaking down proteins well, or we’re like a vegan vegetarian, we’re not getting enough good clean sulfur amino acids. Well this could be a stressor for our immune system or for not getting enough vitamin D. Whether supplementally and we’re not getting outside, that could be a big stressor, because your vitamin D has a major effect on our T regulatory fat cells. And after your regulatory cells they just come in there and they help modulate imbalance the immune response. That makes sense? Am I-
Evan Brand: Yeah, no. I mean you’re spot-on. I’m looking at the lab right in front of me. They’re talking here about the different types of T helpers and they say right here: T regulatory, the normal role of it is to limit inflammatory responses, which is exactly what you said. The T regulatory is the balancing act, promoting what they call immune tolerance, and it says here if you have an issue or an imbalance, T regulatory cell problem, then that’s when the autoimmune diseases come in, and that’s when inflammatory bowel diseases come in.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And that’s why when we like run a lot of organic acid test, we’ll look at certain markers like sulfate, or we’ll look at Pyro Glutamate, or Alpha Hydroxy Butyrate. We’ll look at a lot of these organic acids that correlate to our glutathione precursors, because this is important. If we aren’t able to have enough of these glutathione precursors, that could have a major effect on our immune system, right? That’s that’s really important. Also, for seeing just poor Hypo Methylation , right? If we’re not getting adequate levels of B12 or Folate and we’re HypoMethylating right, low levels of Methylation, we may see an increased amount of Homocysteine. We may see higher amounts of Methylmalonic Acid or Foramina Glutamate. Remember, Methylation is important because Methylation silences genes. So if we have these genes that are going to be like, let’s say genes that are going to be predispose us to diseases or conditions, we want to be able to silence them. So having good Methylation with a lot of those nutrients is important to silencing those genes. So really really important that we have good Methylation, because that plays a huge role in all of us.
Evan Brand: So you can test this. I’m gonna do it just for fun because I’ve got the test kit. If you want to measure the immune system, it looks like, I mean we love diagnostic solutions for a lot of the other testing that we do with them. I’ve not run this yet, but this is the whole Cytokine assessment, which is all looking at the T helper cells. The TH1, TH2, T regulatory — I’m gonna do it and report back on, on what it shows because one thing it says here just back to the TH2 dominance thing quickly: If you’re TH2 dominant, we talked about food allergy, seasonal allergies, you mentioned hay fever, and other things. It also says here chemical sensitivities — which I definitely have an increased chemical sensitivity problem. Since I got exposed to mold and possibly lyman Dorko infections from tick bites, that may be a driver of the sensitivity thing too. So what I’m curious to see is on a piece of paper, am I gonna show up really high with these TH2 ones they’re talking here. Interleukin 4 or 5, 6, 10, 13. If so, there’s the answer, but as we discussed it doesn’t really change the protocol much. It’s just it’s good data, but I’m still gonna do the same things like do infrared sauna, and do charcoal and binders, and excess glutathione supplementation like you said and making sure I’m digesting.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and we decided on doing this topic. It’s an important topic as people are talking about it. But if you’re coming into this, and you have health challenges and you’re listening to this and you’re feeling overwhelmed, don’t worry about it. This, this is not the cause, this is the effect. It’s important that you have a good functional medicine doc that they can look at the root cause but then maybe can take some of this data into account.
Evan Brand: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So we’re not gonna base our whole treatment plan off of it but it’s just kind of a guide like a compass to, ‘hey am i moving in the right direction?’ Okay good excellent. I’m moving in the right direction. So it kind of gives you that confidence and ability. Also we were talking about low Methylation. Well, low methylation is also correlated with TH2 dominance. When we have that immune response, those antibody immune responses that are high, we tend to see low Methylation. So you see this a lot in allergies, asthma, autism is a big one, mucus, eczema, hives. You’re gonna see it actually in chronic fatigue as well. So these are conditions we got to keep an eye on, but Methylation is very important. So we got to look at .. So when we run a lot of organic acid testing, we can get a window into some of these root cause stuff before it trickles down and affects the immune system. So I’m still a huge fan of the organic acid testing because it gives me a little bit more of a window to the root of what’s happening versus the downstream Interleukin and Cytokines in and TNF-alpha and Interferon, which I think is more of a downstream trickle.
Evan Brand: I agree. Well, I just want to restate what you said a little differently, because it was interesting, which is that the Hypo Methylation is gonna affect and make you more TH2 dominant. And I would say, I mean you tell me if it’s different with your clients, but I would say 50 plus percent of the people we’re working with, they come and say, “Hey I tested my genetics and I have Methylation issues and I am you know MTHFR with my genetics and I have one snip or two snips and I can’t methyl ink properly.” And these are the same people who come to us with tons of food allergies, they feel like they can only eat limited food supply etc. I think this whole Methylation TH2 conversation is huge and I don’t think we’ve ever talked about this before.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah totally. And then again, typically bacterial and viral infections are gonna be more TH1 dominant, and that makes sense right? Because that’s your natural killer cells. That’s gonna be your helper cells. These are the guys that are coming out to the party first. So it makes sense if I get exposed to an acute virus or an acute bacterial that that TH1 immune response is really really important. And then also people that have a TH1 response that’s really really high, they tend to make more Cortisol, right? So when you have chronically high Cortisol, you may actually see a decrease in that TH1 immune response. So this makes sense, right? Just think about it. If you have really low Cortisol, that’s going to suppress your TH1 response, which may make it easier for you to get cold and get sick. So this is why we want really good TH1 immune response, and chronically low Cortisol could have an effect on that so it was a typical adrenal fatigue, or like, adrenal dysfunction type of imbalances could create a lower TH1 immune response and cause you to get sick more. So just getting your Cortisol levels supported, and then getting to the root cause of that. Could have a major effect on supporting your TH1.
Evan Brand: Yeah, which is why we test it. So you can look at doing urine, you can look at doing saliva. You mentioned the organic acids, that’s a urine test. The saliva is what I use. I think you use mostly urine though now, don’t you?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah I’ve been doing more of the urine just because I get a window into the free and the total Cortisol. I still love the saliva, it’s still great but it just it misses the total fraction which is nice to see.
Evan Brand: Mmm, okay. So you still have to get your foundational test. What we’ve talked about was kind of like a level like beyond what you typically need to do. This is like above and beyond the foundations. You and I don’t really say when we’re working with someone, “hey we’re addressing your TH1 and TH2 imbalances”. Like, I don’t think I’ve ever said that ever, maybe a couple times, but really what we’re doing is we’re fixing that as you mentioned the downstream effect. That’s what this is. This is the downstream stuff we’re dealing with, but we’re fixing that indirectly by focusing on the root causes. So getting rid of the bacteria and viruses that are throwing the immune system the wrong way, getting rid of parasites that are shifting it the wrong way , lowering thyroid antibodies by healing the gut, replenishing vitamin D, replenishing glutathione, to move out toxins, and molds, and other things that are disrupting this balance so you have to do that.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. So think of like acute cortisol. Acute cortisol could actually bump up the TH1, could stimulate up a chronic cortisol. Chronic cortisol, chronic adrenal stimulation that eventually decreases the cortisol via getting the brain feedback loop dysregulated. That’s called HPA access. This regulation that is going to actually weaken the immune system so just kind of think of it like this — there’s chronic stress make your immune system weaker or stronger most people can wrap their head around the fact that it’s gonna make it weaker. And then we’re just talking about that mechanism. It’s really gonna be dysregulation that TH1 immune response for sure.
Evan Brand: Yeah. Well said.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Anything else you want to address here today? I mean–
Evan Brand: So do we list out the major symptoms for TH1. I know I did it for TH2 right? That was gonna be nasal drip, mucus allergies, hay fever, hives, chronic fatigue, a lot of autism stuff think hypo methylation. A lot of allergy based stuff. And then we have the TH1 stuff it’s more TH1 dominant. You’re gonna see that graves Rogen’s. You’re gonna see lupus. You’re gonna see I even think Hashimoto’s is gonna be TH1, and anything else you want to say about the TH1 dominant conditions. Yeah, it seems like the TH1 problems are more autoimmune related, where TH2 or more I don’t want to G over generalize, but TH – sounds more related to histamine allergy type.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Histamine allergy kind of thing so our Hashimoto’s a lot of irritable bowel conditions. T3, lower T3 conversion issues, TH1 MS. I think MS may actually be TH2. I think lupus may have a TH2 connection. So with the research like nothing’s 100% right, there are some nuance to it. Vitiligo autoimmune condition affecting the skin, that’s in the B TH1, Lyme can be TH1, but chronic Lyme can potentially switch the TH2 so there’s a couple of variations with that. Also, this is really cool and this is part of why I utilize pregnenolone in a lot of my patients. A lot of my adrenal patients. It’s because a lot of these autoimmune conditions that are TH1 dominant, they tend to have lower pregnenolone. And it makes sense because the more you’re pregnenolone drops, the more your immune system tends to be dysregulated, right? So the more that TH1 tends to be up that can deplete your pregnenolone, and then the longer that TH1 is up, eventually that immune response can drop too. So you could still be TH1 dominant, but the immune system starts to get weaker and weaker and weaker. It’s kind of like estrogen dominance. You can be a sturgeon dominant while still having low estrogen. Right? I see it all the time. So it’s that it’s all about the balance. And we know the adrenals interplay here significantly, we know gluten and gut barrier function interplay, and we know infections interplay, so if all this stuff isn’t making sense just focus on the root cause and then the immune imbalances should just take care of itself naturally.
Evan Brand: That’s amazing. So the pregnenolone you know that’s considered kind of the master right? So when you throw in pregnenolone, you’re saying you’re allowing the body to go and generate whatever other hormones it needs to from just giving pregnenolone.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. And again if your people are listening to this, … owns like an adrenal precursor. That’s like can make about 27 different adrenal hormones you want to remember though. You want to have your levels tested, and you want to do it the right way. So work with a practitioner on that and make sure you’re getting to the root cause. It’s easy for someone to listen to this and say well I’m gonna just take pregnenolone, but you may ignore how you got here right? So yeah, pregnenolone taking with the eye to getting all the other root cause, things under control that’s the best functional medicine perspective to address it.
Evan Brand: Beautiful. Well, reach out to Justin if you need help with this stuff. We know we got a little .. a little as you called it heady, a little complex, with this stuff. It can’t get complex but at the end of the day you just have to address the root causes but how do you do that? Well you have to find them first, and so that’s why we do comprehensive testing depending on what the symptoms are we may look at different things like stool, urine, saliva, blood, depending on what’s going on. And someone promises or sells you a silver bullet to fix your chronic health issues, they’re wrong. I would run away. There is no silver bullet, all these people they say, ‘Oh everything is Lyme disease’. Or ‘everything is Epstein-barr virus’, or ‘everything is this’. Know nothing is nothing, it’s that simple. It’s always multiple layers or different pieces of the puzzle. I mean I’ve been working on myself with herbs and gut and adrenals and immune, and all sorts of stuff for 10 years and I’m still in the game. I’m still going so it you got to just keep peeling back these layers.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And we’ll put some of the references here in the articles that you guys can take a look at some of the references if you want to digest it slower. We’ll put some pictures here as well, and I’m gonna do a little summary video that’ll be shorter with a little bit of drawings and stuff to help kind of guide you through the understanding of what’s happening. So if it’s too much for anyone or you’re feeling overwhelmed, don’t worry, we’ll try to break it down, we’ll put some pictures, some images, some references, and just kind of have a mind to focusing on the root cause.
Evan Brand: Yep. If you want to reach out to Justin, he can help you around the world. justinhealth.com — just go there, and you can find the appointments and you can book yourself on his calendar. My website’s evanbrand.com. We really look forward to helping you address whatever concerns you have. There’s a whole list of different symptoms, conditions, etc on our website, so you can look through that and see if we are compatible with each other.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And make sure you subscribe to the YouTube channel so you can get some of these summary videos after the fact, if you guys are enjoying it. justinhealth.com / (slash) Youtube and evanbrand.com /(slash) Youtube as well. Evan, hey man, it’s been great. You have a phenomenal 4th of July. If we don’t connect till after that point. And today was great man, really appreciate it.
Evan Brand: You too. Take care have a good one.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Evan take care. Bye bye.
Mitochondria 101: The Key to Longevity
By Dr. Justin Marchegiani
We all remember the mitochondria as the “powerhouse of the cell” from biology class. While most of us haven’t thought about these organelles since high school, the incredible power of the mitochondria has recently been gaining more and more attention. Today we’re going to take a refresher course in mitochondria, and learn how the mitochondria just might be the key to longevity.
What Are The Mitochondria?
Mitochondria are small organelles floating in our cells that produce about 90% of the chemical energy, adenosine triphosphate (ATP), that cells need to survive. Depending on how much energy a cell needs, some cells have thousands of mitochondria while others have none. These tiny organelles turn the electrons in the food we eat into energy our cells can use to power our bodies. Mitochondria are so important that they even have their own DNA, known as mitochondrial DNA (“mtDNA”).
Apoptosis: Cellular Suicide
In addition to creating energy, mitochondria produce other chemicals your body uses for various tasks, like breaking down waste, recycling waste products, and something called “apoptosis.” Apoptosis is programmed cell death and is crucial for a healthy body. When your body senses viruses and gene mutations, it may trigger apoptosis to prevent these from spreading. Cancer and tumors grow when left unchecked; apoptosis is needed to reign them in.
Take Care of your Mitochondria
Healthy functioning mitochondria are essential for many of our life-sustaining metabolic processes. As essential to life as mitochondria are, they are also delicate and quite susceptible to damage. Mitochondrial dysfunction is currently characterized by a variety of metabolic illnesses.
The following conditions are associated with changes in the structure of mitochondrial DNA or are symptoms of mitochondrial damage or malfunctioning include
- Multiple Sclerosis: A neuroimmune disease, multiple sclerosis patients generally have impaired ATP synthesis, which is evidence of malfunctioning mitochondria. Most MS patients also have chronic oxidative stress.
- Autism, Asperger syndrome, ADHD
- Fatigue: One of the most common symptoms of weak mitochondria is chronic fatigue.
- Motor skill problems, including trouble walking, talking or swallowing; loss of motor control; balance and coordination issues.
- Digestive issues: vomiting, diarrhea, constipation, bloating, acid reflux.
- Muscle aches, pains, weakness
- Heart, liver, kidney disease or dysfunction.
- Neurological problems,
- Age-related hearing loss
- Cyclic vomiting syndrome
- Cytochrome c oxidase deficiency
- Neuropathy, ataxia, and retinitis pigmentosa: muscle weakness, vision loss
- Stalled growth and development
- Respiratory problems
- Hormonal imbalance
Supporting Your Mitochondria Naturally
Additionally, it’s important to be conscious of carcinogenic EMFs and minimize your exposure to these man-made electromagnetic frequencies. Healthy mitochondria can protect you from suffering too much damage from acute exposure, but constant bombardment from EMFs including cell phones, computers, Wi-Fi routers, microwaves, etc. will wear down your mitochondria. You can read more about protecting yourself from EMF radiation here.
>>Healthy Nutrition: Eating organic, whole foods is important for everyone. For an extramitochondrial boost, consider supplementation. I recommend Mito Synergy for a packed-punch of antioxidants and mitochondrial supporting nutrients.
Mito Synergy contains:
- Vitamin B: B vitamins are integral to mitochondrial energy production and proper mitochondrial function. A deficiency in any of the B vitamins disrupts normal energy production, leading to an accumulation of toxic byproducts and increasing oxidative stress.
- Creatine: Creatine is a substance similar to amino acids that you find in muscle cells. It can help increase muscle mass, strength, exercise performance, and protect against neurological diseases.
- L-Carnitine: Carnitine is an amino acid produced by the body, and is also found in red meat! It is involved in transporting compounds and also stimulates glutathione production—the master antioxidant.
- CoQ10: In order for our bodies to make use of the food we eat, our mitochondria has to turn food and oxygen into usable energy in the form of ATP. This conversion process requires the presence of CoQ10. Read more about CoQ10 here.
- Alpha Lipoic Acid (ALA): ALA has actually been labeled a “mitochondrial nutrient” by researchers due to its ability to improve the structure and function of mitochondria. ALA has also been studied for its ability to increase antioxidant levels, restore vital enzyme activity, prevent oxidative damage, and protect against cognitive decline.
- Curcumin: Curcumin is anti-inflammatory: it works on a control switch called NF-κB. Genes generally aren’t turned completely on or off, it’s more like adjusting the volume on your stereo. Curcumin helps downregulate or turn down the volume on NF-κB, which results in less inflammatory markers and less inflammatory stress. Curcumin also upregulates glutathione, known as the master antioxidant that also protects mitochondria, by up to 600%!
Conventional Medicine to Functional Natural Medicine | Podcast #232
Conventional medicine is a system in which medical professionals treat symptoms in diseases using medicines, or surgery. Functional medicine, on the other hand, is a treatment that focuses on optimizing the functions of the body organs, which involves holistic or alternative medicine.
Today’s podcast guest is Dr. Russell Jaffe. Dr. Jaffe is highly respected in the functional medicine industry. As a physician and scientist who aspired to be comprehensive, objective, empiric and experiential, Dr. Jaffe started his career searching for deeper understanding, wisdom, evidence, and insight in mechanisms of health.
Dr. Russell Jaffe
In this episode, we cover:
00:51 Medical Research to Functional Integrated Nutritional World
10:32 Intermittent Fasting
15:02 Keto Diet
34:15 Importance of Vitamin C
58:56 Importance of Vitamin D
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey there it’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani. Welcome back to the beyond wellness radio podcast. Today we have a phenomenal guest, we have Dr. Russell Jaffe in the house. Dr. Russell is a Ph.D. MD nine years all at Boston University. One graduation lots of good knowledge there and Dr. Jaffe was really on the conventional medical side. I really want to dive in we’re gonna get his story and how he converted moreover to the functional natural integrative kind of model. Dr. Jaffe runs the perk supplement company, he also runs the company called Elisa Act which does premier testing for food allergens. Dr. Jaffe welcome to the podcast.
Dr. Russell Jaffe: Thanks for having me
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent. Well, let’s just dive in. I want to hear your story and how you went into this mainstream medical research kind of world environment over to the functional kind of integrated more nutritional world. How did that happen?
Dr. Russell Jaffe: Well I was trained in need in academic medicine at Boston University then I matriculated to the National Institutes of Health where I was early on the appointed to the senior staff which is a bit of an indication that my science was acceptable and of course I was skeptical about anything that I didn’t learn in academic medicine in internal medicine in clinical pathology and Laboratory Medicine. In fact, when I heard that Queen Wu, an acupuncturist in Washington DC, could get results that NIH could not get. I went with great skepticism and ended up doing a seven-year apprenticeship with him
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow
Dr. Russell Jaffe: Then I then I heard about yoga and I heard about Dr. Ramamurti Mishra an MD Ph.D. cross-trained in Banaras, wrote the textbook of yoga psychology commentary and Patanjali sutras. I went as a skeptic and I was his acolyte for five years, then I met a Cambodian Buddhist monk named Anti Dharma Aawara and I had the last 30 years of his life from 80 to 110 mostly together
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow that’s amazing
Dr. Russell Jaffe: So, I came as a skeptic but when I… but I was also curious and because I was curious, I went outside my silo I went outside my immediate peer group. Because I can tell you that when I started to bring information about traditional oriental medicine and acupuncture to the National Institutes of Health where it’s practiced today. I can tell you it was met with great indifference and crashing silence. Because these were very smart people who knew that they knew more than anybody else because they were at the NIH and I was you know with them. But I was also outside, curious, finding mentors who had answers, wisdom, traditions that I knew nothing about. You know I mean I knew from nothing. So, I had the time with Queen and with Ramamurti Mishra, Dr. Mishra and with his Cambodian Buddhist monk Anti Dharma, and yes, my world has absolutely turned around if you will. Why? Because I now advocate nature nurture and wholeness, I advocate physiology before pharmacology. I advocate eating what you can digest assimilate and eliminate without immune burden. I can tell you if you get restorative sleep and you keep your neural hormones and balance then gratitude will rise up at least in the springtime when you see the earth renewing itself. So yes, I do think that a functional, integrative, personalized, primary, proactive, predictive, personalized prevention practices is the medicine of the future, and my work is to speed the transition from sick care to health care. Because most people get sick care today, they really don’t get health care. In your clinic they get health care in my world I would like everyone to get health promotion health care preventive, proactive care. But that is a dream today, that is an aspiration. It is also a necessity because the cost of sick care is going to sink the businesses of America. We’re not going to well, let me summarize very quickly who. Uwe Reinhardt, a very famous Princeton health economist. He says, if you just look at the rise of chronic disease today and projected forward a generation or so, everyone’s gonna be in a hospital bed taking care of the person next to them. No one’s gonna be working or paying taxes that’s clearly not a vibrant productive society.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Correct 100%. Now I’m just curious having it’s such a, you know strong conventional background MD, Ph.D. and having to had such an open mind to pull in other modalities and other forms of natural medicine and you know you’re looking at obviously the outcome you’re looking at the effectiveness. What it’s your colleagues think cuz I mean obviously conventional medicine, the allopathic pharmaceutical surgical approach, it tends to rely on not addressing the root cause and it tends to not have a preventative nature to it. So, when you are looking at these natural forms of medicine obviously prevention kind of comes in we’re gonna be talking about predictive tests that can help us look at and assess and maybe prevent some of these things but what did your colleagues think did you feel like they were threatened? And then what was the atmosphere around with just the drug industry? You know cuz that kind of motion one direction.
Dr. Russell Jaffe: Well I can. I’m gonna answer your question but before I answer it, Merck Sharp & Dohme gave me their annual award one time. I got the meritorious Public Health Service Award one year; my work was featured in the New York Times at one time. So, I was not unknown or unrecognized, I got to teach every year because NIH has its own University on topics that I was interested in that I was interested in introduced.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Dr. Russell Jaffe: But to answer your question especially about people who have advanced degrees they either come out of what’s called the Decartian Reductionist Mechanistic way of thinking, in which case I will not talk to them because they won’t understand what I’m saying and it probably will be uninteresting or irritating to them. Then there are the people who come out of the Garrettian Rudolf Steiner.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mmm.
Dr. Russell Jaffe: Before that, there was a theorist as Hoenn half before that you can go all the way back to Mymanatis and Hippocrates. But I will mention that Hippocrates practiced on the island of Kos because the conventional doctors and Athens drove him out of town.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow.
Dr. Russell Jaffe: Because ah was for radical to their beliefs and now, he’s a father of Western medicine
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Unbelievable so they, you did get some accredited you did get some accolades but not enough to incorporate a lot of these things in mainstream medicine. So, there’s still kind of a block.
Dr. Russell Jaffe: Well that’s above my paygrade.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Dr. Russell Jaffe: My responsibility at the time was to do my job.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right
Dr. Russell Jaffe: To publish to communicate to inspire to inform to motivate and I’m glad to tell you that many of the people who are skeptical of my enthusiasm at the time have gone on to research in these areas and now they too have come around and an example, a very important example, but it’s just a personal face on this conversation Dr. Tony Lamas, Gervasio Lamas, he is the chairman of Medicine at Mount Sinai Hospital in Miami and he is on the Faculty of Mount Sinai Medical School in New York and he led the tact trial funded by the National Heart Lung and Blood Institute NIH NHLBI he is the superb cardiologist, very conventionally trained, who now has documented the benefits of chelation therapy especially for people with diabetes. And we’re both on the rostrum today, we’re both on the program teaching other doctors. What we find to be the information that inspires us that keeps us younger and I will mention that he and I just got off the elevator just before our interview and he noticed that I had lost 65 pounds and I mentioned
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow.
Dr. Russell Jaffe: I wasn’t going to find them again and I noticed that he had lost some weight. And so we commiserated with each other because it’s not easy to get to your lean weight but you feel so much better your restorative sleep is so much better your digestion so much better your moods are so much better. That from my point of view it’s absolutely worth doing in fact it’s an investment in my future and others have heard this I don’t know if you have, Dr. Justin, but I’m planning to be dancing at 120 and I want you and I want you to be with me.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wonderful. That’s wonderful that’s excellent. Well, also you got your CCN as well so you obviously have it your conventional medical training. When did you go and start learning more about nutrition, in general?
Dr. Russell Jaffe: I actually, I actually helped found the IWCN, I was the program director for the first eight years of the certified clinical nutritionist program, I believe that I have CCN number one.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow so before we dive into some of these predictive markers and I also want to you know get a sense of your background too because you also started a supplement and lab company which I think is very unique as well, but before we go into that, what would you say, give me a breakdown what’s your typical day like breakfast lunch and dinner, how do you spend your day doing a lot of research what’s that day like?
Dr. Russell Jaffe: Well thanks for asking. Here’s my day, I’m kind of a farmer which means I go to bed early, I get up early. I get up usually before dawn and I happen to have a wonderful mattress that I love and I stretch before I fall asleep, I stretch when I get up before I get out of bed, then I kind of check myself then I have a morning shower while the coffee is brewing and I do get organic shade-grown tea buried coffee from a wonderful guy who roasts the beans the day he sends it to you.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wonderful
Dr. Russell Jaffe: And while the coffee is brewing, I take my shower and I stretch again in the shower and I go through a mental checklist to see if there’s any part of my body that really needs help today. Then the next thing I do aside from putting on some clothes usually, is I make sure I’m well hydrated and I am now following a fellow who believes that it is better, in the long run, to take almost all of your calories in just six hours.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mmm so intermittent fasting?
Dr. Russell Jaffe: Yes, you can call this intermittent fasting. I like to think of it as intermittent digestion or…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.
Dr. Russell Jaffe: What is it whatever is the good side of fifth to me fasting is, I don’t want to fast.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.
Dr. Russell Jaffe: I have resistance of the word not in the process but I tell you that my mornings at this point now I know breakfast is the most important meal of the day but please don’t knock me out about this. That’s what I actually do and I’m going to be honest with you.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Dr. Russell Jaffe: My mornings I stay hydrated I sip on coffee, I don’t put anything into my coffee there are no extra sweeteners in my home. You’re sweet enough as you are you don’t need to add sugar.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I love it
Dr. Russell Jaffe: And by the middle of the day I’m beginning to feel hungry, and where am I in the middle of the day? I’m at my R&D center in Vienna Virginia which is also my home. So four days a week I get to think write meditate and then I go out in our permaculture biodynamic food forest garden, where my job is to sit and watch the pollinators pollinate and the birds eat the birds, seed. And then my other job is to pick whatever is right for dinner because we like to eat from our land. We have a biodynamic Community Supported Agriculture CSA that we belong to and once a week we get very fresh food. And yes we go to Whole Foods but we only buy things that are whole. In my home, there are very few packages. We don’t need them. There are devices that make it easy to cook things work very well very quickly, yes we have steel cut oats not rolled oats and yes we put them in water or some broth overnight so they pre swell.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.
Dr. Russell Jaffe: I’m trying to think what else for me I often in the evening before bed I have about a half an hour where I get in a warm tub of water that has a cup of Epsom salts and a cup of baking soda that helps detoxify and relax. When I’m in the bath five minutes I do deep abdominal breathing just slow rhythmic breathing if you want to know what abdominal breathing is like watching a baby they all know how to breathe in there happen watch most adults, they under ventilate, they hypo ventilate they have so many traumas growing up that they’re daring to move that’s right they breathe from their chest which is not where the action is it’s these little tiny air sacs called alveoli, I really am a doctor at the that you have to expand your lung so I five minutes of abdominal breathing than 15 minutes of active meditation. My friend Robert Leichtman wrote a book called Active Meditation: The Western Tradition and published around 1976, still in addition highly recommend it and anything that Bob Leichtman has ever written because most of us have days that are structured I have earned and I worked hard to get this didn’t happen overnight but I worked hard to get to the point where I had a team with people that could take care of the day-to-day and in fact it’s better for me to not even interact with that because I’m constantly fixing things that aren’t broken.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Correct.
Dr. Russell Jaffe: But if they if they can’t solve a problem well then it’s mine.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That makes sense.
Dr. Russell Jaffe: Four days a week yeah four days I’m a week I’m at the R&D center in the woods I get eight to ten thousand steps a day in and how do I doing that well I have a hands-free telephone and when I’m talking which I offer them, when I’m talking I’m walking.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That makes sense I have a setup here where I’m on a treadmill at my desk and when I’m sitting I have a like basically it’s called the QB and it’s put by spending on us and you can bike. So I do the same thing
Dr. Russell Jaffe: That’s wonderful.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And just can just curious about protein consumption in fat consumption.
Dr. Russell Jaffe: oh well it’s, first of all, understand that the clear and the recent studies completely support what I’m going to say. The Greek Mediterranean diet is the healthiest diet the next healthiest diet is the Japanese diet. In both cases you take in lots of fresh things in joyful ways with lots of herbs and you have 60% complex carbs, 20%, of calories from fat and 20% of calories from protein now why do I say that, because if you want insulin resistance then go on a low carb high protein high-fat diet. If you want to increase your risk of atrial fibrillation and magnesium deficiency and all the consequences thereof go on a low carb high protein high-fat diet. It’s in vogue it’s called keto I even hear that South Beach is now a modified friendly keto. I don’t know what a friendly keto is. I know it keto, I know a ketoacidosis is it’s called starvation.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Dr. Russell Jaffe: You will lose weight if you if you do what Bob Atkins and others recommended for many years which is eat a lot of fat a lot of protein and zero as close to zero carbs as you have… weight but you but your bones will melt.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So what’s your there’s a lot of data coming out from over at Duke University, Eric Westman, a bunch of other Doc’s on the ketogenic kind of template you know they’re modifying it anywhere between 20 or to 50 grams of net carbs typically around thirty thirty net which typically gets you like eight servings of green vegetables a day. What’s your take on that? Because there’s lots of data with less mass…
Dr. Russell Jaffe: The folks that the folks at Duke are doing good folks at Duke are doing good work there is an integrative medicine group at Duke at they’re part of. However, you can call that what you want you can call it a rose or a petunia it remains what it is it’s not ketogenic. Ketogenic means you deprive yourself of carbohydrates and you force your mitochondria cells, the battery of the cell to use fats and amino acids for energy. So what they’re saying is if you’re truly ketogenic you’re in starvation and what I said before applies now what they’re saying is we want to have a best of both, we want you to have the option of more fat and more protein. So we’re gonna cut the carbs half of what I said. So I said 60% not and I’m remember I said no added sugar so that 60% from fiber nuts and seeds and things you have to chew those are the thing and fruits and vegetables which turn out to be associated with long life and good health and depriving yourself of fresh fruits and vegetables I don’t think anyone today who really knows about the true functional nutrition literature as a fellow of the American College of Nutrition as someone who was on the National Nutrition Consortium appointed by Mildred Seelig at ACN today. I can tell you for sure that the Greek Mediterranean diet is associated with the healthiest long life and the best energetic mood stability symptom reduction from diet alone. Now it’s not it’s more than diet, of course, it’s what you eat and drink it’s what you think and but in regard to eating and drinking with respect to the folks that do they’re trying to take a very overlooked problem identify it and find a solution by splitting the difference. As someone who is in academic medicine, I can tell you I’m splitting the differences often what’s done but it rarely turns out to be very helpful.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: When you say splitting the difference do you mean just instead of consuming zero carbohydrate kind of like a carnivore diet they’re doing essentially you know six to eight servings of green vegetables keeping the net below 30. Is that will you mean by splitting the difference?
Dr. Russell Jaffe: Yes I’m saying that the healthiest diet is 60% complex carbohydrates, 60% lots of fiber, 20% from protein, 20% from fat in which they’re very nicely…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Would you customize the carbs if you have a patient that’s coming in with a let’s just say elevation in fasting insulin let’s say greater than 10 or at 15 or a functional or a glucose tolerance that stays up high 2, 3 hours after a meal. Would you make exceptions to cut the carbs lower if you’re dealing with those patients?
Dr. Russell Jaffe: If you want to reduce hemoglobin A1c if you want to improve glucose-insulin ratio, if you want to improve Homa which we studied in our diabetes outcome study which we talked about if you want. But if you want to optimize any of those parameters as you should. You must keep the fat less than 20% of calories, and you must have at least forty to a hundred grams of unprocessed fiber in your diet daily. That means 60% from complex carbs, 20% from fat, 20% from protein. Now if you include seeds and nuts if you include seeds and nuts you get healthy oils but remember that as soon as you remove the oil from the seed or them but, the protective factors are gone and now you have something that air is the enemy now and so there are no edible oils in my house. We cook with broth, we cook with wine, we cook with juice, we cook with foods that are wet. We like wet foods we started all of our meals with something wet and warm. That Americans but it’s a makeover that adds years to life in life to years.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Now you talked about 20 wouldn’t… go ahead.
Dr. Russell Jaffe: No I was just trying to kind of guild that point which is I had insulin resistance when I weighed 65 pounds more than I did now.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Dr. Russell Jaffe: I can tell you the last the last two hemoglobin tests on myself for 4.5% and the best outcome goal value is less than 5% and even a little bit about five and you begin losing years on the far end but losing quality of life today. It’s a bad proposition.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting.
Dr. Russell Jaffe: We need it turns out we need a lot of fiber we also need a lot of probiotic good bugs and then we need a lot of nutrients that come from things like fruits and vegetables. Especially healthy fruits and vegetable.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Dr. Russell Jaffe: To me today the minimum is organic I prefer biodynamic and actually, I would prefer to grow it myself if I quit.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s amazing. Now you talked about having the fact go higher that causes insulin resistance. What’re the mechanisms? We know fat doesn’t really have much of an insulin genic response I mean you have some with protein more with carbs. So what’s the mechanism of fat getting higher and causing more insulin and just to be clear right, we want to draw a line between you know process kind of more rancid omega-6 or more trans-fat right and then we kind of have our healthier saturated fats in the category coconut oil maybe gear butter and then, of course, we have our unsaturated avocado, olive oil, those kinds of things.
Dr. Russell Jaffe: Let me jump in on that and just just to make a very important point. EVO, extra-virgin olive oil is a fraud waiting to be revealed.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay let’s hear it yeah why.
Dr. Russell Jaffe: Yeah well why because my family I went to Tuscany at the time when you harvest olives and you bring them and overnight they grind very slowly on this grinding wheel you know this is a stone wheel and one comes out is dark green and viscous and delicious and they eat it there and they love it there and you can buy it commercially. What you buy and this is actually what happened we stayed there all night in the morning there was this mountain of spent olive mash outside the building, and this big truck from Bartoli comes by and I say what’s happening and they say, Oh hahaha Portola is going to take our spent olive mash and the first time they process it they’re gonna call it EVO.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it.
Dr. Russell Jaffe: So it’s a fraud waiting to happen. Ghee, on the other hand, can be liquid sunshine Beatrice from hunter wrote about that many years ago but remember the ghee comes from the cow and if that was a healthy cow that’s fine. But most ghee is contaminated with the products at the cow ate including glyphosate, including lead and mercury and… I okay and and now if you want to make a fondue and you want to use some organic grapeseed oil a few drops, I will not tear it out of your hand in fact there is i feel to show you I’m not totally consistent there is a small bottle of grapeseed oil and we made fondue with it. If you tell me you have organic peanut oil and you want to do a stir-fry, I’m killing a few drops of organic peanut oil in a wok or a cast iron pan, it’s fine.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s okay.
Dr. Russell Jaffe: But most of the oil should come from Whole Foods seeds and nuts. The complex carbs are what regulate a slow uptake from the gut of sugar and the minerals that are necessary to process the sugar so that you actually enhance insulin functionality by having a lot of fiber in the diet. Now let’s flip to the other side let’s slip to the other side. Assuming that you will agree with me that you’re sweet enough as you are and therefore you don’t need any added sugar.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I totally hear that.
Dr. Russell Jaffe: Now most now most of the studies that the people have cited included sugar and complex carbs as carbs. Sorry, that’s not fair look at the diet studies that use Whole Foods as their source of carbs. They got the best insulin resistance below 20% of fat from calorie… fat as source of calories, less than 20% of calories from that. Now, why is that? It turns out the more fat you take the more rigid are the membranes of your cells and it’s a little complicated biochemistry but trust me I’m not making this up. When the cell membrane itself this is the wrapper around the cell this is a very important packaging but very dynamic of thing membrane when that membrane becomes more rigid the fit between insulin and the insulin receptor becomes less efficient, and you develop insulin resistance but since your…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Doesn’t that membrane get more rigid more with trans-fats though then or like vs higher quality omega 3s or higher quality saturated there’s no difference in that? mm-hmm.
Dr. Russell Jaffe: Well let’s go back to the trans-fat comment. Kumar Kumaroh and Marianne showed in the late 70s early 80s, trans fats should not be part of the human diet, trans-fats should be out of your diet it’s not hard today because even the companies that used to advocate for them agree the trans fats bad bad bad yes trans fats do make rigid membranes but they’re bad and suggestible. Now stearic acid saturated fats are more rigid unsaturated fats are more flexible and fluid. You want to have more EPA DHA as omega-3, but you want it from a source that was distilled under nitrogen to remove the toxic metals and to avoid air oxidation damage of the delicate EPA DHA then you need enough magnesium in your body because magnesium acts as an antioxidant to protect the EPS, the unsaturated fats when they’re in trend.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting, now when you talk about some of these fish oils how much does it matter if it’s a triglyceride or an ethyl ester what’s your opinion on that?
Dr. Russell Jaffe: In my opinion on that is that there are two points of view, one advocated by company a and the other advocated by company b. There are virtues to both what is critical from my point of view is that the distillation of the oil whether it be a triglyceride an ethyl ester or not, that the distillation be under nitrogen.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Nitrogen is important is that preventive grantee oxygenation doesn’t happen essentially.
Dr. Russell Jaffe: To prevent what will be irreversible oxidative damage to the delicate essential fats that you are interested in it yes so you must have still under nitrogen and then you want to take the traction that has the most EPA DHA of course, and now you want to micellize that in a soft jell because that will protect it until you swallow it and the micellized little droplets get into the body easier because it’s not easy to take up either the triglyceride or the ethyl ester you need some bile you need a gall bladder that works and as I started to say what’s really important is the quality of the EPA DHA because you can make a case on both sides, which means we really don’t know the answer yet.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And of course like you know you run a supplement company so we, you’re going out and you’re trying to find a person that to buy raw material offered there are obviously different tiers right you can go and buy cheaper stuff like you would maybe the equivalent of a burger at your local McDonald’s or you can choose the high quality grass-fed organic beef at your local farmer correct, so you’ve different options on your keys…
Dr. Russell Jaffe: The reason that Park Integrative Health the reason that Park was founded in 1987 was because I wanted to use pharmaceutical quality and above raw materials all the time. And I was told by people who knew better that our cost of goods was going to be so high than I would have a hobby and not a business. So I did something that some people do which is I took the marketing budget and I put it into the cost of goods I put it into the quality of the bottom the quality of our service and we’ve grown quite a nice business, thank you, over service without having more than a few dollars for marketing. Because you’ll never see a sports celebrity endorsing a Park product but if you take a Park product, you’ll feel the difference because if you use the higher quality raw materials and you put them together so that it’s only active ingredients all the time which is something we pioneered. Now you have a safer, more effective form that when you study it as we have in community-based outcome studies delivers feel the difference results and as you know we have an unconditional guarantee because we trust people to feel the difference that Park approach that is use the highest quality and monitor it very carefully, because people will promise the moon and deliver modified dog poop.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Make sense. And then with your a fish oil what’s your opinion do you like the triglyceride, or the ethyl does it matter and then what’s the difference is to kind of put it in in layman’s terms.
Dr. Russell Jaffe: Well right see the difference is that eventually these delicate fats are going to get into a membrane as part of a triglyceride, and a triglyceride is three carbons, that’s the backbone and coming off of each of those carbons is a long chain called a fatty acid. Now the two position there’s one two three the middle position the tube position of the triglyceride is the source for your cytokines thromboxanes and prostaglandins it’s really important so if you put a racemic acid in there or you put it on mega six fatty acids in there you’ve got a completely different response than if you put in EPA or a DHA in there. So in that sense, you would think the triglycerides are better. But it turns out that the body is going to deconstruct and reconstruct a triglyceride so that’s not so critical and the ethyl ester, not the methyl ester ever the ethyl ester is easily taken up it has better bioavailability so if you say to me this is a person with a perfectly healthy gallbladder, across the coin both of them are okay.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent.
Dr. Russell Jaffe: If your bile from your gallbladder is limited, well then you should have the ethyl ester.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And then when you’re producing the product what’s the how are you preventing the oxidation from happening outside. I’m just keeping the temperature down. Are you putting like a rosemary antioxidant, how are you keeping it stable?
Dr. Russell Jaffe: Well when I said, first of all, there’s a pharmaceutical-grade fish oil company.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You’re choosing a good quality right?
Dr. Russell Jaffe: No I’m choosing way above a good quality, the best food-grade right right right so there is food grade which you can think of as floor sweet. Then there is quality grade we can think of as better than floor sweet things. Once you get up to American Chemical Society to reagent grade to pharmaceutical grade and above, now you’re at a different level. You’re dealing with different companies you do different they provide different kinds of documentation you do we do third-party pros production testing on all our products because even though we trust our suppliers verified by President Reagan used to say Rastenburg.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly yeah that makes sense.
Dr. Russell Jaffe: So what happens is the fish oil is distilled under nitrogen the middle fraction the concentrate EPA DHA is basically put into a sealed container, it then goes to the place where it’s going to be micellized into the soft gel where it is immediately and without any exposure to oxygen, put into tiny droplets that are easily taken up from your gut. And by the way, you don’t get the burping and the comeback that most officials have you can bite into this fish oil soft gel and you’ll find it very delicate because it’s not rancid.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting and then if you consume, so if you were to consume rancid omega-3s you essentially have more lipid peroxidation correct.
Dr. Russell Jaffe: You would have more lipid peroxidation and it would be a member of studies there have been several studies recently that said, oh we thought fish oils were good but they’re not really good. And if you look at them carefully these were people taking fish shows made in oxygen fish oils that were rancid and should, in my opinion, should not be consumed.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: is that just robbing from your antioxidant reserves it’s sucking up more vitamin C what’s it doing in your body?
Dr. Russell Jaffe: Well it’s doing several levels of harm yes you’re right when you start with something that’s damaged and oxidized than the body has to use antioxidants which is protective but he has to use antioxidants in order to somehow get the oxygen off the molecule that has it. Because when you put oxygen on a molecule like a fat, it’s like putting a hand grenade on the fat. When that oxygen comes off the recoil energy is going to be so high that you’re going to break the membrane of the cell you’re going to damage the cell that’s a bad thing. And now you have a molecule that kind of fits in where an omega-3 or omega-6 should you know triglyceride in a membrane, but it doesn’t have the right shape. It’s got this big extra oxygen on. So peroxides are bad epoxides are bad anything that robs your antioxidants are bad and most people need help with their antioxidants so anything you can do to preserve to enhance the function of your antioxidants like ascorbate. Is to your benefit and anything you do that depletes your antioxidants it’s the opposite.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent and what does that do to your cell membrane? Is it making the cell membrane more inflexible?
Dr. Russell Jaffe: It’s not only making it more inflexible when the oxygen comes off the recoil energy is so high you actually break the membrane and very often the cell is killed.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow I really appreciate your biochem background it really helps and I know you’re also famous for doing a vitamin C calibration. Can you talk about the vitamin C calibration and who can benefit from that?
Dr. Russell Jaffe: Right so let’s talk about the C calibration also known as the C cleanse and the reason that we focus on a ascorbate, known as vitamin C it’s really an antioxidant does not think of it as a vitamin A vitamin is something you need a little love to activate enzyme catalyst. Albertsons Georgy pointed out that ascorbate is as important to survival as light and oxygen. When you’re that important you’re kind of really important and the end the next question has to be, well how much, how much should I take. Now Linus Pauling famously said 9 grams then he said 18 grams and I got to ask him why he said 18 grams and he said because doctors are so dumb they could only remember a number and if I say it long enough then they’ll remember and I said but doctor timing shouldn’t it be individualized he said of course but doctors aren’t smart enough for that. I think people consumers are and I think that people aren’t a functional integrative and holistic medicine are and so the C calibration the C cleanse means that every 15 minutes you take a certain amount like a gram and a half, three grams, six grams, every 15 minutes and notice I said grams, not milligrams. But of course, you use fully buffered fully reduced l-ascorbic nature’s form is l-ascorbic you want to fully reduced not the partially reduced fully reduced and by the way our source of ascorbic is fermented. It’s done by natural fermentation but under a nitrogen blanket so that during the production of the ascorbate, which is triply recrystallized under nitrogen which is it’s a challenge but it now gives you nature’s form in a concentrated way. And then we have a balance of minerals potassium, calcium, magnesium, and zinc you need all of them in a proportion so if you need one gram 10 grams or a hundred grams you still get the minerals that help the ascorbate come in and help it work.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And so what’s the goal how high do you go up to and then do you ramp down how does the whole process work and why should people be looking for symptom was.
Dr. Russell Jaffe: Well what they’re gonna do is once a week they’re gonna check their C calibration they’re gonna do it by taking the ascorbate every 15 minutes until they cleanse, until they have an enema from within, until they have a flush something so unique that until you’ve had it you don’t understand it but once you’ve had it once you know what I’m talking about. So you rapidly get toxic matter and fluid pumped into the rectum and evacuated from the tosh that’s why I meant by an enema from within. They do that once a week we do that once a week now in between you take 50 to 75 percent, so let’s say it took 10 grams to cleanse, you take between five and seven and a half grams. I recommend that people start at 50 percent and move up to 75 percent over time. You do the cleanse every week because the amount you need will likely go up over some period of time as you overcome the repair deficit that your body has accumulated for years or decades, and when you finally get to Plateau which means for four consecutive weeks your cleanse is the same amount. Now you know the amount you need on a daily basis, you’re taking three quarters of the amount to do that cleanse and you keep doing that until you get bulky or lose your stool indicating that repair has finally completed and now you do ramp down see now you check it once a week as you need less and less. And the goal is to need less than four grams, and when we checked about 4,200 people that reported their C cleanse. The people who are asymptomatic and healthy cleanse on four grams or less. They’re people who had just a few symptoms cleansed on four to ten grams the average person cleansed on ten to a hundred grams and there are people who need well over a hundred grams which is a hundred thousand milligrams to cleanse but it is safe and for it is safer for people to do this because the amount of oxidative damage, the amount of oxidative toxic material, the amount of nutrient-deficient oxidative processed foods that people are taking in the stress of high tech living has dramatically increased the amount of ascorbate that people need, ascorbate is the mother or maternal antioxidant that sacrifices herself so that all the other antioxidants can be regenerated and protected. so ascorbate is the critical one to test and the c cleanse is the way to find out how much you as individual mean.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So essentially just to kind of recap at your doing about one teaspoon of the L ascorbate reduced powder which is about 3 grams 3,000 milligrams every 15 minutes or you’re taking more of it and you’re trying to get to a place of bowel tolerance where you’re essentially you’ve saturated your bowels or saturated your vitamin C stores and now the stools start to get loose and that number may be higher in the beginning and as your vitamin C levels get more repleted, or topped off so to speak, then that threshold to move the bowels as you said drops. Is that correct?
Dr. Russell Jaffe: Well no let me clarify my friend Bob Cathcart introduced bowel tolerance. It has a fatal flaw. The fatal flaw of bowel tolerance is you creep up on the amount you need as opposed to the cleanse where you rapidly ramp up.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So you’re doing degree increments though right teaspoon 3 gram 50 minutes.
Dr. Russell Jaffe: No let me say again what I said before. If you’re really healthy if you’re really healthy you use 1/2 a teaspoon which is a gram and a half.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Gram and a half got it
Dr. Russell Jaffe: Right if you’re a typical person you do use a teaspoon which is 3 grams but many people there are many people who need 2 teaspoons which is 6 grams and they need it for hours and if you do 6 grams for 4 times in an hour that’s 24 grams if you do that for two hours that’s 48 grams. Most people will cleanse in that time the idea is to rapidly saturate the body with the ascorbic so that the ascorbate can energize the rectum which is really from the kidney embryologically and pump toxic matter and extra water in to the rectum and that would come whooshing out flushing out cleansing up. So yes it’s the same idea, but it’s the next generation after bowel tolerance it’s the C cleanse or the C calibration. And it really depends on how well you are. If you’re really well you don’t need that much but if you’re a typical American, even 3 grams and I just had a someone contact me about this they took 3 grams every 15 minutes for 5 hours.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s a significant amount.
40:45 Yes sir, but if they had done six grams they would have flushed and calibrated but after five hours what they proved was they had a lot of oxidative burdens and they need a lot of ascorbic. So you really do, I really recommend that folks read the literature that we have, this is free to download online, you can look up C cleanse, you can look up joy of living the alkaline way or alcohol a guide, and we want folks to help them we want to help people understand themselves so they can do it smoothly, efficiently, and generally within a couple of hours. So I personally do my cleanses on the weekend and I can cleanse within a couple of hours. But often we hear from colleagues that people try say a teaspoon and that means three grams every 15 minutes, that means 12 grams an hour, but they need 70 grams to cleanse and it’s gonna take them more time than they’re willing to take and. I don’t think it should be your whole day you shouldn’t be sneak on waiting for a cleanse the whole day.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So if that’s the case, could you go up in tablespoon increments if you wanted to go faster?
Dr. Russell Jaffe: Well understand that you want something close to an isotonic iso-osmotic beverage so when you go to 6 grams or 2 teaspoons, you’re now talking about at least eight ounces.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I see.
Dr. Russell Jaffe: And if you go and if you go above that you might go to 12 or 16 ounces, most people don’t want to drink that much.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I see.
Dr. Russell Jaffe: I have no I have no objection to that. I’m just saying that I don’t make it too concentrated and don’t make it too dilute, you don’t want hypotonic, you don’t want hypertonic. You want as close to isotonic as you can get and that’s why what we recommend is as the upper dose is the two teaspoons in 8 ounces. Could be water could be your herbal beverage could be a juice that you diluted one to one with water. And by the way, some people find if they take the recycled glutamine or they take a dose of magnesium and choline citrate or they take a dose of the digestive guard before the cleanse. That things go more smoothly and more easily.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent and I’m just trying to wrap my head around what the difference between this cleanse and just typical bowel tolerance by vitamin C. Is it because it’s in the L ascorbate reduced form with the minerals, does that make it different? What’s happening is different.
Dr. Russell Jaffe: Well Bob has gotten himself recommended sodium L ascorbate and he did that because he knew that ascorbic acid would pull the dentin the calcium out of the teeth you know so you don’t know use ascorbic acid. He didn’t want to use a synthetic form and I agree with him on that, but what he said is you just keep taking it until you feel until you until your poop. That’s called bowel tones. Here’s here’s the fatal flaw with bowel tolerance and I spoke with Bob about this and he agreed with it was a very honest guy. When you do bowel tolerance, you have a very high probability that if you have a long transit time long digestive transit time as many Americans do, that you will recirculate toxic matter throughout your body and feel worse in contrast with the C cleanse you quickly ramp up, saturate the ascorbate throughout every cell of your body, and then pump the toxic matter and the extra fluid into the rectum, and it comes out quickly, and you don’t get the recirculation of toxic matter. People don’t want to feel worse on the way to feeling better.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well you motivated me. I’m gonna go pick some up and do my own vitamin C calibration very soon. Excellent. So let’s transition the conversation you talked about there eight predictive markers for your health to kind of give a window kind of your check engine light so to speak to see how you’re functioning in an optimal perspective. So let’s just kind of break down those eight markers briefly and let’s do a quick little blurb on each of them, so what’s number one?
Dr. Russell Jaffe: Well yes. Now with regard to predictive biomarkers, we reviewed hundred-thousand lab tests because we wanted to know what covers epigenetics and epigenetics is everything that’s not genetics. Epigenetics is everything you can influence with your lifestyle. It turns out to be really important, it’s 92 percent of your life Steinhaus epigenetics influences your genes, your genes are not a fixed blueprint they’re rather dynamically acted upon and modified by your habits of daily living, and your habits of daily living are summarized epigenetics and there are eight of these tests and I’d like to go through them and I’d like to point out what’s unique about our interpretation. And some of these are familiar, hemoglobin a1c. And the best outcome goal value is less than 5%. Now today if you ask most diabetologist, most doctors who specialize in diabetes don’t tell you that they don’t want to know the fasting glucose they don’t want to know the fasting insulin, the 2-hour postprandial. They want to know the hemoglobin a1c. It’s the average sugar stuck on to your hemoglobin protein over three or four months. So it’s a very good average risk predictor, it’s an oil cause morbidity mortality predictor, it predicts whether you want to live ten or more years pretty accurately, and the goal that is less than 5%. Now the second test is high sensitivity c-reactive protein, HSCRP, and you do need the high sensitivity version. Pointed out that while c-reactive protein is a good measure of acute inflammation, the more common chronic repair deficit which is what inflammation really is it’s really repaired deficit, that can be measured with a high sensitivity c-reactive protein known as HSCRP and that should be less than 0.5.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Is that the same as the cardiac CRP? I think it’s the same, right?
Dr. Russell Jaffe: Yes yes sir yes sir. Originally Read Crew who is a cardiologist thought that the high sensitivity test was cardio specific, and it’s sometimes referred to as the cardiac CRP
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That helps.
Dr. Russell Jaffe: And yes, yes no I’m glad you brought that up. It is it’s not cardiac-specific, but it is sometimes called cardiac CRP and it is the high sensitivity or the HS CRP that we want and the best outcome goal value is less important
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I see a lot of patients that want the HS CRP but their lab whether it’s a quest or LabCorp only has the cardiac and from what I’ve seen like you just said it’s the same thing.
Dr. Russell Jaffe: Oh same thing same thing yeah. So the next test the third test in the sequence is known as homocysteine. This is a plasma test and you must process especially within 30 minutes or the lab shouldn’t even run it, but a plasma homocysteine predicts atherosclerosis and cardiovascular disease, almost better than any other single marker and when you combine the predictive biomarkers the way we do you’ve covered all of your cardiovascular risks and you notice what’s in here and what’s not in here we can talk about what’s not in here at the end. So the next test is your immune tolerance task. Oh sorry, the homocysteine should be less than 6 the homocysteine should be less than six. And that, yes homocysteine should be less than 6 again don’t pay any attention to the lab range healthy people have a homocysteine less than 6, they have a high methionine, a low homocysteine they are protected from cardiovascular disease and they can methylate which is a very important function for moving things around in your body. So homocysteine value less than 6 on the plasma properly done specially
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And if that level is on the higher side what nutrients should we add in to help bring that down? Assuming a diet and lifestyles good.
Dr. Russell Jaffe: Yes well you’d be surprised actually how much B complex including folate, how much magnesium and choline citrate, how much betaine hydrochloride known as trimethylglycine people need in order to keep a healthy homocysteine, and you can look at all these cycles if you want because I’m a biochemist and I do it in my sleep. But the bottom line is you need at least a super B complex, you need folate probably milligrams a day, you need trimethylglycine at least 250 milligrams a day, you need enough ascorbate to protect and two other antioxidants, and with that and with enough magnesium and choline citrate to activate your ATP, you too can have a low homocysteine a nice high methionine.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting and they just the back story for everyone listening they can look at it here is Kilmer McCully who was a Harvard researcher that discovered the homeless cysteine atherosclerosis link. Was basically laughed out of Harvard me 10 20 years ago in this discovery, but now it’s becoming mainstream and its even part of your predictive markers for overall health.
Dr. Russell Jaffe: Kilmer published in 1967 when I was a young scientist in Boston, I knew him then. He went to the VA and distinguished research career but you’re right he got left by other parties. He was right and he was right, and they were in it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep interesting.
Dr. Russell Jaffe: Now the fourth test is the immune tolerance test known as LRA, lymphocyte response assay. Lymphocytes are specialized white cells, and they respond to things that are foreign and harmful, but they don’t respond to neutralizing and helpful things. So you want an LRA the LRA by ELISA/ACT is what we recommend and the goal is to have no intolerance is to be completely tolerant in your immune system, and healthy people with a healthy digestion and a healthy intake of the nutrients they need. The few of them that we found too are asymptomatic tend to have no reactions out of hundreds and hundreds of substances that we can now accurately measure on one ounce of blood, as long as it gets to us within a couple of days.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Now with that test, how is that different than your typical food allergy IgG your IgA. Is it companies out there like Everly Wells a big one you see on Facebook all the time which I think is looking more IgG IgA? How is that different from that typical you know food allergy that’s more antibody based?
Dr. Russell Jaffe: The antibody tests were developed in the 1950s, they were outmoded in the 1980s, they’re still offered by most labs because they’re easy to do and impossible to interpret. So when you get an IgG antibody result, you have to ask yourself. Is this a beneficial neutralizing helpful antibody or is this a complement fixing harmful antibody? You can’t tell.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So essentially with the ELISA/ACT, you’re looking at the lymphocytes and you’re able to see if there’s a t-cell kind of mediated response to these foods specifically? Is that how you look more specifically?
Dr. Russell Jaffe: Yes. The innovation that we brought to immunology was the first amplified procedure done on the surface of a white so-called a lymphocyte. And the novelty is that we can do reproducible tests that is less than 3% variance. So we do a functional cell culture more precisely than a physical chemistry lab measures an antibody, and the point you made that you jump to is correct. More important than b-cell antibodies and more important than distinguishing helpful from harmful b-cell antibodies are the t-cell responses which you can only get cell culture, only get from a cell culture.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So the IgG and IgA, that’s more B cell-mediated and…
Dr. Russell Jaffe: Hundred percent. Not more these cells make antibodies
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Antibodies, correct.
Dr. Russell Jaffe: B cells make antibodies through specialized antibody factories called plasma cells. When you do physical chemistry, say hi GG or any antibody measurement, and I don’t care if you used a cooked antigen, I don’t care if you use a freeze-dried antigen, I don’t care if you used an aerosolized antigen, I’m telling you if you’re measuring antibodies you’re doing old-fashioned physical chemistry and you can’t interpret whether it’s good or bad and since you don’t know the function and you need to know the function I say don’t do tests that are intrinsically incapable of giving you the information you need. And then the point you made is well made which is T cells are more important than the antibodies, and you get nothing about the T cells when all you’re doing is old-fashioned physical chemistry. So we outmoded this in the 1980s we have over eighty thousand cases in our database, we’ve done over twenty-five million cell cultures, we published more outcome peer-reviewed studies that show the benefit of this approach when it was applied just by people living their lives. But as you said a lifestyle program, a program to add life to years and years to life, and we’re more excited today than ever because the data continues to come in that we have an advanced approach. It’s part of this predictive biomarkers suite of advanced interpretations and I’m glad to tell you that we at the Health Studies Collegium have been able to pioneer much of this validate it to the satisfaction of our most difficult critics and now make it available to colleagues and consumers.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very good. Now your test for this is the Elisa act biotechnology test now I’m just curious though. Is the liza the same thing as the enzyme-linked immunosorbent assay test? Or is that just kind of a play on words there.
Dr. Russell Jaffe: No no it’s very specifically Elisa act, which is the coming together what you said Elisa, with a CT Advance cell culture technique
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay so it’s combining it. Okay.
Dr. Russell Jaffe: So it’s the first time, first time that an amplified procedure was done, not with a sandwich assay like a conventional Elisa introduced by Bursa Aiello in 1953, back then this is using a lymphocyte enzyme that when the cell is resting, when it doesn’t see anything that it reacts against, the enzymes turned off. Because this is the same enzyme that turns the cell on when it needs to go through mitosis and reproduce itself. We were fortunate enough to figure out the specific kinase at the MHC locus for those of you who are super technical. The antigen presenting cell in this autologous ex vivo cell culture wiggles over to thelymphocyte presents the processed antigen at the MHC locus turns on the kinase we see the results of that. This is the bringing together for the first time I’ll be Liza, just as you said and cell culture.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting so you’re able to get the antibody response from that, the IgG IgA IgM, you’re able to get the immune complexes, and then you’re also able to look at that the t-cell activation there too, all three
Dr. Russell Jaffe: Exactly right C lymphocytes are smart enough that they will only react to harmful antibodies. So we get the meaningful harmful antibodies and we ignore the helpful neutralizing antibodies and then yes, we get the immune complexes which is IgM anti-ag G antigen and most importantly we get the T cell reactions.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent, very good. What’s the next marker?
Dr. Russell Jaffe: Yes, the next marker, the fifth one is measuring the pH or the acid alkaline state of your urine after rest. It turns out after six or more hours that the urine and the bladder equilibrate with the bladder lining cells and now you get once a day a measurement of cellular metabolic status. And if you lack magnesium, you have metabolic acidosis if you have enough magnesium you have a healthy happy cell. Why is that so important? Well magnesium is not just an electrolyte that balances calcium you need one molecule of magnesium for every ATP molecule to do any work in your cell. You need magnesium to activate your mitochondria so you can get the toxins detoxified. You need magnesium to activate hundreds maybe thousands of enzyme catalyst. You need magnesium to protect essential fat’s in transit, magnesium is nature’s calcium channel blocker. The problem has been that until very recently magnesium has been notoriously hard to get in, it tends to run out as soon as it comes in, and therefore it’s been forgotten. Now what we did was find out how to make inverted micellar nanodroplets, so you combine ionized magnesium salts with choline citrate and now you get enhanced update and chaperone delivery to the cells we’re hungry for it. So now we should remember magnesium.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wonderful, excellent. What’s the next marker.
Dr. Russell Jaffe: Well the goal value from pH is 6.5 to 7.5 if you’re below that you’re too acid and you need more magnesium if you’re consistently above 7.5 it might be catabolic illness and that’s something you don’t want but we could talk about later.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And we want like we want the urine though the saliva it doesn’t quite matter
Dr. Russell Jaffe: No no urine urine and the reason we want the urine is because that’s what we standardized, but more importantly if you put a Kirby Cup, if you put a little plastic discover your parotid gland in your mouth and you collect pure parotid saliva you two can measure the pH of that. But having had that done to me when Frank Oppenheimer was a postdoc and meet at some subjects, very true people will do that. What we call saliva or spit it’s a combination of gingival fluid zero sanguinis exudate some saliva sub submandibular some parotid, it turns out that saliva is not what you think it is. At least not in most Americans mouths and and talk to the dentist. There are very few Americans that have a healthy mouth.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And then with the urine, are we testing first morning urination, or they can be another example?
Dr. Russell Jaffe: No no no there’s only one time of day. You can only get a meaningful measure after six hours of rest. So when after six hours at rest the next urine… yes, and you by the way during those six hours you can go to the bathroom and go back to bed. You just can’t go to the gym or the kitchen
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it, because you’re gonna create acid byproducts on your muscle activation.
Dr. Russell Jaffe: And other than after those six hours of rest, there are somewhere between 20 and 40 variables that influence urine ph at any random time
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That totally makes sense.
Dr. Russell Jaffe: Right the next measurement, the next measurement is vitamin D, specifically what’s called 25 hydroxy D but if you just ask for a vitamin D that’s what they’re gonna do. Now there are three forms of vitamin D and there are some experts who say measure all three of them. I do not advocate that, partly for cost and partly for practicality. So if you think there is something wrong with the way their kidneys are processing vitamin D or their liver is processing vitamin D then you might want to do all three different what are called isomers. In general you want the 25 hydroxy d and the goal value is 50 to 80. Now there was recently an article in New York Times, and a very distinguished science writer says, almost everyone in America is low in vitamin D it’s normal to be low in vitamin D so don’t even measure vitamin D and don’t supplement. Now did you understand what I just said it do you understand how silly that is?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely yes okay absolutely.
Dr. Russell Jaffe: Let me clarify for everybody, because I know you know this, but when vitamin D is below 20, well of course your bones are gonna fall apart, but more importantly you just tripled or quadrupled your cancer risk.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly.
Dr. Russell Jaffe: And you probably tripled your cardiovascular risk. Because vitamin D we call it a vitamin, it’s actually a neurohormone. It actually regulates cell division; it does a whole lot of things and we know in my opinion the best outcome goal value 50 to 80 the vitamin D council I believe says 40 to 70 but that’s close to 50 to 80. And the ranges that we have said were the values that we have said give you a certain latitude. So if you take a little bit too much vitamin D, and you get up to 90 or 100 I have no concerns. So when I say 50 to 80 I don’t mean that 81 is a problem, I’m saying the safer range that we know to be effective and protect you from the profound chronic illnesses 50 to 80. And how much vitamin D do you take? How much vitamin D do you take? Well as much as you need to get into the 50 to 80 range.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah as much as you need.
Dr. Russell Jaffe: And I take and I prefer for people to take drops under the tongue, so they can absorb, well that’s a turkey word be careful of that but drops under the tongue before you swallow them are easily taken up and many many people over forty million according to my colic. Over forty-million Americans don’t absorb vitamin D from their gut. They’ve got to take it up they’ve got to take it up.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting
Dr. Russell Jaffe: From their mouth
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah Hollen he’s also he’s also a researcher over ABU as well right at your alma mater?
Dr. Russell Jaffe: that’s where I met Mike Hollen.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay he’s been there for a long time right. 34 years.
Dr. Russell Jaffe: About that he’s developed the fundamental methods in vitamin D research he’s known as dr. sunshine.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah absolutely now I’m seeing some people online they’re pushing back a little bit cuz we have vitamin d3 the pre-vitamin D we make on the ski. Somebody hits it that cholesterol I think goes through our liver and gets forming the 25 hydroxyvitamin D, which is calcidiol and then calcidiol hits the kidneys and gets converted to calcitriol. So more people I’m seeing are saying hey we had a measure calcitriol or that the vitamin D that’s activated to the kidneys and they say there should be like one to one ratio on the d3 the 25 hydroxy versus the 125 which is the calcitriol. What’s your opinion on that having that one-to-one or the 125 is?
Dr. Russell Jaffe: Having spoken to 12 different world’s experts and their opinions matter and mine doesn’t cause vitamins not my particular expertise. I can tell you they each have a different opinion. With respect to what your folks, were saying if you have the resources and you want to have the maximum useful information. Then at least you would measure the 25 hydroxy and the 125 hydroxy.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it.
Dr. Russell Jaffe: But you might want to measure the precursor as well. If you’re going to do that, but I will offer to most people for home the value proposition including how much is this going to cost…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.
Dr. Russell Jaffe: Leads me to conclude for most people to start with 25 hydroxy D. No disrespect on the question but just start with 25 hydroxy D bring people into the 50 to 80 nanogram per ml range. Then if you have any question or if you want to just be a more scientific and evidence-based practitioner, when you get them into range then measure and see if you have a one-to-one ratio.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And what if there’s not was it would there be something you would do specifically. I know some data says you should give resveratrol to help with that some today it can be an infection kind of thing. What’s your take on why that may be skewed we’re 25 is higher and 125 is lower?
Dr. Russell Jaffe: Well you raise several very good points. My friend happens to own resveratrol globally and I can tell you they’re going out of the resveratrol business because resveratrol tall has very low bioavailability. It is a polyphenolic it is in red wine, especially granule red wine. However, because it is very low bioavailability, which means very low solubility. When you give it in the doses that people have tried to give it, you end up irritating the gut and irritating the immune system. So we have for a long time at least the last 25 years advocated the safer more effective polyphenolics and activate your innate immune system and do many wonderful things for you. And that’s quercetin dihydrate as the flavonoid, and soluble OPC ortho proanthocyanidins for the chemists as the flavonol, because you need flavonoids and flavonols. These are the colorful compounds in foods but almost all of them in high doses are mutagenic which means oncogenic which means promote cancer because they have such low uptake and they can be irritating, and if you irritate the immune system enough, it will become very upset.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Make sense
Dr. Russell Jaffe: Flavonol but safer the soluble OPC we have them together in different forms because they help prepare they reduce pain they enhance many functions of the innate immune system and when your innate immune system is functioning, you are in a repair mode where you don’t have to call in the extra troops. What’s called the adaptive immune response which are the lymphocytes and the other delayed immune reactive cells. So, which one is to provide a lot of energy to the innate immune system so it can defend and repair you, so they can recycle foreign invaders down to their building blocks and make them available for the body to build itself up? And then more importantly, after you do defense you have to do repair. Well, most Americans are in defense mode almost all the time. You can think of it this way, during the day we do more defense work when we’re getting restorative sleep, we do more repair work. Ah notice I snuck in restorative sleep. Now if you need restorative sleep, then you might need that salt and soda bath the dichromatic light which we didn’t talk about but that goes along with it the abdominal breathing, the active meditation the magnesium and choline citrate, maybe tryptophane with some zinc and b6 so that your body can make the serotonin and the melatonin. I never give serotonin. I never give melatonin because the body never floods itself with those neurochemicals and neural hormones. I give the tryptophane in a way that it goes exactly in the brain where it’s needed, where the brain turns it into serotonin or melatonin as needed. And by the way, it has a very short life in the body because it’s too potent to leave around. So, we follow physiology before a pharmacology, but that also means we study physiology and frankly most of my colleagues today, they know about pathology and I am a double board-certified pathologist, but they don’t remember physiology and biochemistry flummoxes.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I agree healthy egg yeah biochemistry and physiology and when you apply it that becomes Clinical Nutrition and functional medicine essentially, right?
Dr. Russell Jaffe: Absolutely, absolutely.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very good.
Dr. Russell Jaffe: So now the next, right. The next test is an omega-3 index, want to know where you are omega-3 to omega-6 this is Bill Harris’s test. Can be done on a blood spot, and the goal value was more than 8%, and the quick anecdote is that Bill Harris was in the offices of Professor Patti Deutsch at the Military Medical School, she and I are friends I came by because I was going to confer with her and bill was lamenting the fact that it’s so hard to find adults with healthy omega-3 levels. Patti points to me he pulls out a Lancet he calls me up a few days later he says your omega-3 is 13.2% something like that I said well is that better than eight he said well we think it is if you know that above eight is good we know that above eight is good but let’s say that you were just a consumer or just a listener to this show. You might assume that 13 is better than eight. But I’m a scientist so I had to ask Bill is it really better than eight and he’s an honest enough scientist to say we think it is we pray it is we hope it is come back and five or ten years we’ll have more day. So that’s the omega-3 index. And then we only have one more and that is a urine test, this is the measure of oxidative damage and risk in your DNA it’s called 8-oxoguanine that is 8-O-X-O-G-U-A-N-I-N-E, 8-oxoguanine, and because it’s a urine spot test, we actually have a value per milligram of creatinine. So, your best outcome value is less than 30 milligrams per milligram of creatinine.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Is a test in organic acid by Genova it’s called 8 hydroxy – deoxyguanosine, it sounds very similar to that I know that’s an oxidative stress marker?
Dr. Russell Jaffe: Yes, yes. I think that we’re talking about the same molecule I can tell that this molecule has several different names, they’re all the same you want the DNA, the nuclear DNA oxidative stress marker that’s the one you are.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s it that’s correct good.
Dr. Russell Jaffe: Now we help people interpret tests that other labs do. So we folks want to know about these best outcome goal values and how to attain them, then you would talk to our health coaches and our nutritionist. If you want to have them perform they can be performed through our lab or through your lab although the LRA is distinctive to us, and the omega-3 index is distinctive to Bill Harris.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very good. And then what’s the range you want to be in for the omega-3 again?
Dr. Russell Jaffe: Yes, for the omega-3 index you want more than 8% to be omega-3
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And with yours, you were up to 13 you were saying right?
Dr. Russell Jaffe: 13 plus.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay so what we’re going to do…
Dr. Russell Jaffe: At the moment there’s only one person who has a higher value if I remember correctly from what Bill said, and it was actually a youngster, was a teenager but this mom took very much pride in telling us how much omega-3 she got her kids to eat.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And if they’re a high threshold for that just because of the lipid peroxidation would you say eight grams, four, six, what’s your high-end recommendation you know we’re assuming farmers pharmaceutical-grade super high quality, so it’s not oxidized.
Dr. Russell Jaffe: Well if the question is how much EPA and DHA do I take and I would never take an oxidized product and I would never recommend anyone do that. But I currently take 8 to 10 grams a day, and that may seem high but I can tell you that given my particular background, that’s what seems to be needed to keep all the other parameters in the range that I would like them to be. So I’m personalizing my intake.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Plus you’re also probably calibrating the L ascorbate which is you know stabilized membranes too, right?
Dr. Russell Jaffe: Oh of course and I take the polyphenolics and I take the super B complex that has a full mineral complex, and I occasionally take some extras in because I’m a man. So yes and I take prebiotics probiotics and symbiotic. So yes I actually sent someone a photograph of the 12 supplements that I take a day and I take two to four doses a day of those supplements. Now I’m like everyone else when it comes to opening-closing bottles, I understand that it’s a commitment I have made because it helps me feel and function so much better. By most physical and functional measurements, I’m half my age and if I can keep that up if I can keep that up for another 30 40 years it’ll be a good run.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent Dr. Russell Jaffe, it’s been an amazing podcast. Lots of knowledge bombs lots of great information. Were there any other biomarkers that all the eight?
Dr. Russell Jaffe: No no we got through all eight of them yeah that was pretty quick but thank you for being such a good host and for making sure that I stayed on top
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent. I’m gonna put in the show notes here, we’re gonna put the links to the ELISA ACT biotechnology food allergy lymphocyte test. Will put the vitamin c el ascorbate, the potency guard powder links, and everything so if anyone wants information, we’ll put it down below. Is there anything else you want to leave the listeners with here today dr. Jaffe?
Dr. Russell Jaffe: Oh gosh yes, I would like folks to know that in the 21st century we have to save our own lives. You cannot rely on science from the 19th or 20th century. I’m not even sure today you can rely on an expert. As Jackie Mason, the comedian says, in the phone book or wherever you look up your doctor its lists every condition and whether they were present or absence the day your problem occurred. And I’m just trying to be a little bit humorous about it, I think consumers should be very active today learning about themselves through self-assessments, through tests that can be interpreted to best outcome individual levels, as we’ve just been talking. Now, this is a new paradigm, this gives information inspiration and if you put some effort perspiration in, you can recover decades of quality life, and you can feel and function better tomorrow. It’s the best value that I have found in all my years in science and by the, way this is not only how I follow through I do walk my talk. But this is how my parents live near the end of their life and the way my children live today. So put us to the test and find out how well you can feel.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well thank you so much I think you did a phenomenal job taking the hard science, biochem science, and applying it and making it practical so people can apply it so, thank you so much I look forward to having you back soon to dive in deeper and you have a phenomenal day that dr. Jaffe, you take care
Dr. Russell Jaffe: You the same, thanks so much.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Thanks so much, bye now.
What is CoQ10? Benefits and Uses
By Dr. Justin Marchegiani
CoQ10, also known as ubiquinone or ubiquinol, is short for Coenzyme Q10. There are a few supplements that just about everyone would benefit from, and CoQ10 makes that list.
What is CoQ10 and What Does it Do?
Not only does CoQ10 work as an antioxidant, helping to break down free radicals, and as a ‘coenzyme’ helping to break down food— it also plays a crucial role in the production of ATP, the energy currency of life.
You may be familiar with mitochondria as “the powerhouse of the cell. In order for our bodies to make use of the food we eat, our mitochondria has to turn food and oxygen into useable energy in the form of ATP. This conversion process requires the presence of CoQ10.
Why is CoQ10 so essential for your health? Evidence is showing benefits for:
- Heart Health
- Brain Health
- Energy Levels
- Free Radical Damage Protection
- Eyesight Improvements
- Immune System Support
- Reduced Inflammation
- Firmer Skin
Heart Health: While further trials are pending, we’ve seen promising evidence for preventing and treating heart conditions. Studies suggest that taking CoQ10 may be able to prevent recurring heart attacks: In one study, patients who took CoQ10 within 3 days of having a heart attack were able to reduce chest pain and chance of another attack.
Additionally, one review of CoQ10 stated it “has potential for use in prevention and treatment of cardiovascular disease, particularly hypertension, hyperlipidemia, coronary artery disease, and heart failure.”*
Reproduction: In men struggling with infertility, CoQ10 was shown to help by improving sperm count & quality. *
Lowers Inflammation: CoQ10 has shown an ability to lower two markers of inflammation, NT-proBNP and gamma-glutamyl transferase (an early marker for heart failure). Inflammation is commonly referred to the “root of all modern disease,” so lowering inflammation is powerful for preventing autoimmune disease, neurocognitive decline, and other markers of aging.
Firmer Skin: CoQ10 can help with the production of collagen and elastin, the proteins responsible for making your skin flexible and firm. Topical products may not contain enough active CoQ10, so it’s better to get this coenzyme internally.
Energy Levels: We’ve already learned that CoQ10 plays a vital role in the production of cellular energy, or “ATP.” In addition to this vital role, coenzyme q10 has been shown to help with energy levels post-workout. *
Protection From Free Radical Damage: Also known as oxidative stress, free radical damage is a power to be reckoned with, and a major factor of aging. CoQ10 is one of the first antioxidants on the scene when LDL is oxidized, and can even protect membranes against oxidation in the first place.
Brain Health: There is potential for CoQ10 to treat mitochondrial disorders and neurological diseases, such as Parkinson’s and ALS (amyotrophic lateral sclerosis). Additionally, a 2014 study showed that those with higher levels of CoQ10 were 77% LESS likely to develop dementia. *,*
How to Get Enough CoQ10
Some coenzyme Q10 is actually produced naturally in your mitochondria, but natural production tends to decline with age.
Try incorporating more CoQ10-rich foods into your diet. CoQ10 rich foods include:
- Oily fish: salmon and sardines are great choices: remember to chose wild-caught seafood for maximum nutrient profile.
- Grass-fed beef: You also get the benefits of healthy fats and protein.
- Vegetables: Cauliflower, broccoli, and spinach are high in CoQ10 as well as other protective antioxidants. Remember to choose organic!
- Organ meats: Liver and kidney have high levels of CoQ10 (and are sources of a whole host of other rare nutrients!)
An easy way to ensure you’re getting the benefits of CoQ10 daily would be by taking it in supplement form. One pill (100mg) per day is generally a good maintenance dose, though depending on your health status and goals you may take more. For example, if you are trying to prevent or treat brain fog or dementia. Work with your functional medicine practitioner to determine your personal CoQ10 strategy.
Autoimmune Disease and the Gut | Podcast #224
With conventional medical doctors, most solutions are geared to a pharmaceutical, surgical-based outcome protocol to fix autoimmune issues. With medical practitioners, it’s gonna be gut permeability, addressing the root cause, stress bucket. Watch the video and learn more!
In today’s podcast, Dr. J. and Evan Brand goes in depth with autoimmune gut disease, the root cause of most autoimmune conditions, how it tends to emanate in the gut, and many other conditions that will happen because of it: Hashimoto’s, type-1 diabetes, multiple sclerosis, and other types of autoimmune issues. Continue for more and don’t forget to share. Sharing is caring!
Dr. Justin Marchegiani
In this episode, we cover:
00:27 Irritable Bile Disease
04:34 Conventional Doctors and Practitioners
13:55 Genetic Predisposition
20:33 Epigenetics and Stress Bucket
24:48 Dirty Dozen and Clean 15
26:58 The 6-R Approach
31:22 Getting Everyone Involved
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey there it’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani. Welcome back to the podcast. Today we’re gonna be doing a chat all about autoimmune gut disease, talking about the root cause of most autoimmune conditions, tends to emanate in the gut, and using other many other conditions that will happen because of it: Hashimoto’s, type-1 diabetes, uh multiple sclerosis, other types of autoimmune issues, even type-1 diabetes, so, let’s dive in. Evan, how we doing today man?
Evan Brand: Hey man, happy Monday to ya! I’ve got some statistics. So, why don’t we start out this podcast with some statistics from the Center for Disease Control. In 2015, that’s the latest research I can find, 3 million people are reported being diagnosed. Now here’s the important part: 3 million people are being reported diagnosed. So how many people are having these issues, and they are not diagnosed. But this was with irritable bile disease which would either be crohn’s or ulcerative colitis. We’re not even talking about all the different flavors of gut, we’re not talking just IBS that doesn’t have an official diagnosis, we’re talking literally crohn’s and ulcerative colitis which are not good, 3 million people. And so, uh, the- of course it says here that compared with adults without IBD, those with IBD are more likely to have chronic health conditions like cardiovascular disease, respiratory disease, cancer, arthritis, kidney disease, liver disease. So we know, ’cause we’ve talked about it all the time, once you get autoimmune disease, you’re- several times- depending on what study you look at, several to 5, to 10 times more like to get another autoimmune disease. So it’s very likely that if someone’s listening to this and they have let’s say Sjogren’s, or Hashimoto’s, or uh rheumatoid arthritis, they’re more prone to get IBD of some sort.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. So, with irritable bile disease, you have your two main ones which are gonna be like crohn’s and ulcerative colitis. These are like inflammatory conditions where we see potential ulceration, like in crohn’s we see these various skip lesions in ulcerative colitis, it’s primarily in the colon, we see bleeding, right, ulcerations and blood in the stool. We may see high levels of calprotectin, we may see immune markers of the charts like either high IGA ’cause the immune reaction is acute and- or- or very low and depleted immune system because we have uhm, a chronic immune issue, and we also may see low ferritin and low iron levels because we’re not able to absorb and- and digest a lot of our iron, we may even see wasting issue, we’re not able to gain weight. May- may see lower protein markers too, like c- like uhm, creatinine and BUN, and just sort of proteins. So these may be other markers we see. Now there are other types of issues in the gut like microscopic colitis, those type of things that are like inflammation but they’re not irritable. They’re not- they’re not like inflammatory like you would see with ulcerative colitis. There- there’s issues with the gut, but they’re not at that uhm let’s just say full onboard inflammatory presentation.
Evan Brand: You made a good point. So like low ferritin, uh low iron, there’s-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: -certain type of anemia, so in these people, they may be presenting with other symptoms like hair loss, fatigue, uh, you mentioned the- the muscle wasting-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: -essentially, uh, so loss of muscle mass could be happening, and then uhm- did I say hair loss already ’cause hair loss is gonna be huge too ’cause-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, we’re not breaking down protein and minerals, right? We’re not gonna have the building blocks for hair.
Evan Brand: -Your nails, your skin, your-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: -hair, all that could be affected, you may be short of breath because we see a lot of women, and when their ferritin levels are below 40, we start to see that they can’t catch their breath ’cause you don’t have enough oxygen in your body, because now you’re gonna be low on your red blood cells, too. So the whole thing can get nasty pretty quick and the conventional medical route is just not pretty with this whole IBD category. It’s just uh, basically biologic drugs, right, if something trying to modify the immune system.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I mean, you have your biologic drugs, you have your immunosuppressant medications, right? Uh, your methotrexate or even your- like your essen- essentially your chemotherapy. As usual, a lot of time for a lot of these irritable bile diseases, and then you have your high dose steroids, your prednisone. So kinda only have a couple of options, right? This thing is like lialda or mesalamine, which are kind of in that anti-inflammatory gut category. And then some of these things maybe acceptable for an acute period. The problem is, a lot of patients, they’re on these things for their life. So then, what do you do? ‘Cause there’s other side effects like high blood sugar and adrenal issues, and even uhm, bone loss, and other issues from these medications, obviously suppressing your immune system is in good- that could uh, allow you to be susceptible to other types of issues, maybe even cancers and such, right?
Evan Brand: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, with a lot of problems that are happening because of the medications, and then maybe acceptable for an acute time frame but, they’re not addressing the root cause. And we always have to look at the root cause and not to mention, not really even talking about the standard American diet. I can’t tell you how many patients I’ve seen that have crohn’s or ulcerative colitis that I’ve helped get into our mission. And there- you know, their gastroenterologist just didn’t even- they didn’t even really cared to ask like- as like, lesions were here, healing and fistulas were healing, and inflammation is going down. There wasn’t even like sense of like, “Hey, what are you doing?”, “Hey, are you making diet change?”, ’cause there wasn’t really this sense of curiosity of like, “What are you doing?”, even though they were seeing objective improvements in the mucosa in their intestines, and their inflammatory markers, and also their B12 levels. B12 is another type of anemia, you have your macrocytic anemia where low B12 causes big uhm- big blood cells, and then you have your macrocytic anemia where low iron can cause really weak anemic, small, tiny blood cells. So B12, big blood cells, low iron, uh, small blood cells.
Evan Brand: When I had uh, Dr. Nasha Winters on my podcast, and we were talking about natural approaches to cancer, she said that she had worked with people using Mistletoe and several other herbs to address cancer. And the- and sometimes these cases of cancer would just spontaneously disappear and going to remission, tumors would shrink, tumors would disappear, people were off of chemotherapy, they no longer need the medication, and the oncologist had 0% interest in figuring out what these patients did, they just said, “Well, I don’t know what you did but you don’t have cancer anymore, you know, get out of my office”, and that was the end of it, it was just mind blowing.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, it’s tuff, I mean you gotta put yourself in the doctor’s position, right? You spent anywhere between a quarter to a half a million dollars over 10 to 12 years of your life studying something, and how could you not have been taught this? How is this missing from your curricula? So even if it is right, there has to be this intellectual open-mindedness to say, “Hey, I wasn’t taught all the most cutting edge is really important things in medical school or residency train”. There was this kinda come to Jesus moment where you’re like, “Man, did they-“, like, “-why didn’t I learn it?”, like, “I thought my s- my education was the best”, “I thought doctors and medical doctors know it all”, and it’s really hard because some people, they either have that moment, and a lot of times, in my opinion, the doctors really have the moment, are the ones that experience it personally, where they have a personal health challenge, and then they overcome it and they feel it themselves personally, or a very close loved one. It’s really hard for most doctors to wake up through their patients. It’s a little bit harder just ’cause you can- you’re a little more of attached, you can excuse things, you can say spontaneous remission, “yadi-yadi-yada”, but when it’s you or a really closed person that maybe you lived with and then you can see, then I think you’re a little bit more open-minded to it.
Evan Brand: Yeah that’s- I think that’s what makes us good practitioners, is that you and I both had our own journey of suffering, you know, I doubt with so many gut issues myself and mood issues through college and, you know-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: I just had prescription drugs written for me like really high strength ibuprofen and anti-spasmatic drugs and acid blocking medications, and I didn’t take any of ’em.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And it’s tough because you gotta look at like your conventional medical doctor, right? A lot of conventional medical doctors, they may not be the best communicators from like a sales and marketing standpoint, so, if you’re going outside of the insurance or hospital model, you have to really be able to communicate with the public to be able to help people, to engage people and to get patients. It’s really easy to just sit there, you know, kinda in the handout line in the insurance model and having patients just drop off of your office. That’s really convenient and easy, and it’s hard to do that especially maybe if you don’t have the best skill set to go out there and communicate like we do to hundreds of thousands of people every week, so it’s tough.
Evan Brand: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: If people get into this path or they may- their whole livelihood is invested, so it’s just really difficult situation that they’re in, so, uhm-
Evan Brand: A little bit of a tan [crosstalk]- a little bit of a tangent but a very important tangent.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh yeah, I think it’s important because number 1, why aren’t these doctors able to confront people that are getting better? That’s number 1. And then number 2, uhm, bet your doctor may not know at all and this is the reason why, it’s because of the education is geared to a pharmaceutical, surgical-based kinda outcome protocol, and everything we’re doing to fix autoimmune issues doesn’t exist in that realm. So, what’s the big mechanism that we’re seeing here with autoimmune issues, it’s gonna be gut permeability, right? Being able to separate the outside from the inside of the gut is- is very, very, very important. Uhm, and it’s- and it’s actually really important to think too, when you swallow something, and it’s in your intestinal tract, it’s actually still outside of your body. That’s kinda hard to wrap your head around, ’cause then it gets absorbed into the- to microvilli, into the bloodstream, now it’s inside of your body. So even though you swallowed it, it’s still technically outside of your gut tract or outside of your- your digestive system, outside of your body, but then it goes into your body through absorption. And that gut permeability is one of the big factors that can create autoimmune issues. So, if we have undigested food proteins, undigested bacteria and endotoxins that can get through the bloodstream and really exacerbate and flare up the immune response.
Evan Brand: So, get this, this is gonna blow your mind here. I’m looking at a study right now, which is about EMF and gut permeability. And it’s a- it’s a- it is a study uh from 2017 titled, “Evaluation of the Effect of Radio Frequency Radiation Emitted from WiFi Router and Mobile Phone Simulator” and it just talks about the 2.4GHz WiFi connection and the 900 uh MHz mobile phone connection, and how this can affect the gut barrier. So when we talk about diet, it’s a piece of the puzzle but then I think about all these women, you know, especially you and I, we work with a lot of teenagers too like I’ve had. You know, women that are 17, 18, 19 years old and they wear their yoga pants and then they’ve got their cell phone right on their hip of their- of their yoga pants, but they have a perfect diet, like they’re already on like a paleo diet or an autoimmune diet, we get the gut- the gut testing done, maybe they don’t have many infections but all the sudden they’ve got this major gut problem. I’m not gonna say all of it, it’s tied into EMF, but you can measure using a little portable EMF meter, I’ve got one called the Safe and Sound that I use, little RF meter, you can measure that. And so, I think RF radiation, if you’ve got your phone on your hip all day, or if you talk with our friend Jack Wolfson, you’ve got guys with the chest pocket on their shirt with the cellphone over their heart, and-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: -this thing like atrial flutter and afib and all these other gut issues form EMF. So, I think if you’re trying to heal your gut, and you’ve got your smartphone on your stomach all day, that’s probably not a good thing to do.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I mean, you definitely don’t wanna near any sensitive neurological tissue in it. If it’s- if you’re at a desk all day, keep it on your desk, alright? I have it on a little tripod 5- you know, 3, 4 feet away from you at least all day.
Evan Brand: Yeah that’s what I’ve got. [Crosstalk]
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And then from walking around, I keep it on my- I keep it on the whole strobe on my hip, uhm, if I’m walking around. I don’t- I don’t keep it in my pocket. And again, the radiation is- is the highest to the first inch of the phone.
Evan Brand: Yup.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So wherever that tissue is, within the first inch that’s gonna be the most important. So some girls, they’ll have it like right in- on clipped right on top of their breast tissue, be careful. A lot of guys will have it in their front pockets, I mean, I think having it in your back pockets probably is pretty safe just because there’s a lot of thick tissue, dense tissue there and is not really sensitive on the neurological side. So, but in general, like a good holster, uhm ideally if- if you can gonna line it with something, I put a EMF neutralizer on my phone. But, I think, you know, don’t put it up against your head, try to keep it away from your body. But in general, I think it’s one minor stressor in the stress bucket, and I think there’s a lot of other things that will come- be a- even be a higher priority above that. But, definitely don’t talk against it, get a headset and keep it out of your pockets for sure.
Evan Brand: I would still say if you have to pick and choose your battles, you know, it you had your diet dialed in and you use your phone, that’s- that’s okay like you still gotta use your phone. So like if you’re still a bunch of dairy, conventional dairy, you’re eating a lot of grains, especially non-organic grains that are sprayed, you know, people talk about the levels of glyphosate in grains, it’s insanely high. And we know that glyphosate kills off beneficial bacteria in the gut. So, when we’re trying to find mechanisms, you know, how did someone end up in this situation, you know, the gastro doctor doesn’t ask you how much percent of your diet, like, you could have a paleo diet that is not organic, and then you can have a paleo-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: -diet that’s organic, and then you can have an autoimmune paleo diet that’s organic. And that’s gonna be like your highest tier, because if you eat a bunch of conventional meats, all those meats can have the chemicals from the grains. So if you’re doing like a straight corn-fed- GMO corn, 98% of corn-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.
Evan Brand: -in America is GMO, maybe 99%. All of it is contaminated with mycotoxins, just google it for yourself, corn, mycotoxins study, all corn in the U.S. has mycotoxins which are mold, uh basically the off-gassing of mold. That damages your gut barrier too. Just type in mycotoxin intestinal permeability. We know that mold exposure creates leaky gut too. So if you’re eating a corn-fed burger, that’s damaging your gut barrier, even if you think, “Hey, this is paleo, this is meat”. Not necessarily, there’s a caveat to that.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. So, what’s- how does this work? So, there’s a genetic predisposition, right? When you may have a genetic predisposition, the genes that may predispose it but, a lot of times people are confusing genetic predisposition as genetic uh- [Crosstalk]- what’s that?
Evan Brand: I would call it genetic destiny.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes. Genetic destiny. I mean when you have these genes, err- you’re destined for this. But it’s like, hey, you know, you may have- uhm let’s say your genes are like a variou- like various light switches. You may have all these various light switches, that if that light switches flipped on, you may develop cancer or some kind of autoimmune gut issue like we’re talking about. But you have the ability to not flip it on. And you do that by keeping inflammation down, by keeping nutrient density up, by keeping toxins down. And we know toxins play huge role in gut permeability. Uhm, that round up case down in L.A., I think Bayer boughts uh Monsanto and Roundup basically again, I think the appeal process went through- there’s another trial that went through saying that Roundup did cause cancer in this patient according to the jury trial, I think we’ve known this for a long time, there’s been a lot of studies over in Italy showing a lot of these tumor growth. But in general, what we know is that, Roundup, if you look at some of the studies where they look at the gut lining, they can really rip up the gut lining. I think S- Dr. Stephanie Seneff talks about this in MIT. So the gut component permeability component is really important. And then of course just the pesticides as well can disrupt the gut bacteria, and that can create more dysbiotic kind of overgrowth. So you can see more of this prevotella, citrobacter, klabsie- uh klebsiella, pseudomonas, a lot of these dysbiotic strains really start to go up. And of course, then- are beneficial probiotics strains are gonna start to go down. So we get this dysbiotic overgrowth that can really predispose a lot of issues as well. And that- there’s a lot of studies looking at these dysbiotic bacterias and correlating with the- with autoimmune conditions. So we know there’s with, you know, all these autoimmune conditions whether it’s RA, whether it’s rheumatoid- uhm- whether there’s ulcerative colitis, whether it’s type-1 diabetes or crohn’s, or celiac, there’s a- a big connection with a lot of these microbiome, dysbiotic overgrowths.
Evan Brand: Yeah, I’m gonna restate- I’m gonna restate that in a different way just to make sure it gets through people’s head-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: -’cause what’s your saying is very important for people to understand, and you’re not gonna hear this from your doctor. Pesticides, whether this is something you’re spraying on your yard, whether this is something that’s in your food because you’re eating non-organic food, whether this is- you live in farm country and you have people like, you’re in the valley California and you see this plains, at an Amon Farms, spraying overhead, they’re spraying the pesticides, that stuff kills good bacteria at the parts per billion level, ppb. So if you kill the good bacteria in your gut, these bad bacteria that Justin’s mentioned, your pseudomona, your klebsiella, your proteus, all your autoimmune bacteria, those autoimmune triggering bacteria thrive and flourish because the good guys got killed off-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.
Evan Brand: -due to pesticide, then you develop the leaky gut, and then the leaky gut leads to the autoimmune condition. So it can all be linked back to your environment. You living in farm country, and your neighbor spraying tons of glyphosate, or you use this crap which I have a picture of on my phone, this is uh, I went to home depot over the weekend which is a local, uh, not local but it’s a corporate store. People probably can’t see the picture on my camera but it’s Scott’s brand, Scotts turf builder, it’s called weed and feed. And oh, Justin, listen to how gentle it sounds, “Weed Grip Technology. It cleans-“, no, I’m sorry, “-it clears out dandelion and clover”. So it doesn’t kill ’em, by using toxic things that destroy your gut barrier and lead to autoimmune disease, no it doesn’t do that, it clears out the dandelion, and then you look at here at the active ingredients, 2,4-D is the active ingredient. And 2,4-D is the agent orange chemical that Justin and I test for on urine.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.
Evan Brand: And this 2,4-D is, oh, “let’s just- let me just scoop this up on my hand, and let me put this in my little grass-eater and I’m just gonna have a smile on my face as I spread this crap all over my lawn. And then let my dog come play in the yard, and then I’m gonna let my children play in the grass”, and it’s covered in 2,4-D, and then the kid gets juvenile rheumatoid arthritis which is the new term that didn’t even used to exist, it used to just be rheumatoid arthritis, now they have juvenile rheumatoid arthritis, it could all be linked back to this crap, you’re buying grass seed at home depot, with pesticide in. So pay attention. Just use regular grass seed, don’t be using this crap, dandelions are good for you, stop killing them.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: A hundred percent man. Yup, we gotta look at the root underlying mechanisms. So I think we hit the toxin mechanism, and then also, just forget the fact that a lot of the pesticides, especially the Roundups, they’re gonna hug away beneficial minerals. Part of the reason why they work is they kind of- they bind and they culate or they hug away all these beneficial minerals. So then, let’s say you’re growing or you’re buying food, growing in that soil, it’s gonna be significantly more nutrient deficient, so you’re gonna have less minerals, less manganese, magnesium, zinc, we know, if we’re low in certain minerals, those plants are also gonna express deficiencies in vitamins, right? We know like low manganese in the soil correlates with lower vitamin-C in that various plant. So, I mean, this, more than likely correlation with every mineral in the soil, correlating to lower vitamins in that plant. So that’s gonna mean lower minerals for you, and lower vitamins, as well in the plants, and then if you’re eating animals as well, and they’re eating that soil, then guess what, low vitamins and minerals and the animal protein too.
Evan Brand: Well, let’s take that a step further, okay. So now you’re saying we’re gonna be low in minerals, so then what’s gonna happen then? Well, we know if you’re gonna be low in magnesium, you may get heart palpitations, you may get anxiety, you may get restless legs syndrome where your lying in bed and you’re just tapping your little foot in your bed, you may have like a trimmer, or twitching, you may have shaking, uhm, you may have headaches because you’re deficient in minerals, you may have more neurological stuff like you could have forgetfulness, you could have brain fog, you could have chronic fatigue because now you don’t have minerals to fuel your energy cycles in the body. So I mean, if people, you know, people don’t just have one symptom like if they have a diagnosis like crohn’s disease, it’s not just gonna be their gut, it’s gonna be everything. They could be depressed, they could have anxiety, they could have bipolar disorders, schizophrenia, and that could all traced back to this deficiency in minerals, you mentioned the whole zinc thing, you know, zinc deficiencies’ huge. You could have zinc-copper imbalance, so now you’ve got neurological problems and then the conventional doctor, what are they gonna do, with your neurological or anxiety complaints or depression complaint, they refer you out to the psychiatrist, and then what do they do? Well, butrin, zotroft, paxil, prozac, that’s their treatment, which is still not root cause.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. And again, there’s been twin studies out there that look at various twins who have the exact, same, genetic code, right? Except, 50% of them don’t get the same condition, autoimmune disease as their twin counterparts. So this is not just a genetic issue, it’s the epigenetics that happen, kind of above the genes. Remember the initial, the analogy I gave up, flipping the switch on, so we look at it, what’s the underlying stressors, here’s our stress bucket, physical, chemical, emotional stressors all go in that bucket, emotional stressors being, you know, friends, family, relationships, work, all that stuff, the chem- the uh chemical stressors are gonna be gluten sensitivity, gut bacteria, parasites and infections. Infections are another component, we talked about bacterial overgrowth, this fungal overgrowth, and even parasitic infections which can increase autoimmunity as well, and then obviously heavy metals, pesticides, Roundup fits in that same category, and nutrient deficiencies, poor digestion, low stomach acid, low enzymes, food allergens. And of course-
Evan Brand: Yeah, this is why you need a practitioner.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And of course all of the other hormonal imbalances like low thyroid, low adrenals, uhm female hormone, estrogen dominance is a big one, that’s part of the reason why women tend to be 4, 5 times more likely to have an autoimmune condition, compared to men is because estrogen tends to upregulate the various CD4 cells, uhm, a little bit more than you see with men, so, estrogen dominance is a big driving factor. And then of course the physical stressors like I mentioned. Uhm, exercising too much, you’re not doing enough movement, and then of course just not getting good sleep. So these kinda fit into our stress bucket, these cause our body systems to break down, hormone, gut, digestion, infections or- or hormones- hormones essentially in system one, digestion, infection, system 2, detox and nutrients in system 3, these systems start to break down, and then we have symptoms downstream over here whether it’s blood in your stool, and p- pain in your gut, bloating, gas, constipation, most doctors here would say, “Okay you have a consolation of symptoms that may be ulcerative colitis, we’re gonna give you mesalamine, we’re gonna give you lialda, we’re gonna give you prednisone, we’re gonna give you immunosuppressants, we’re gonna give you all these things, but they’re not getting to the root cause in the systems, and they’re not looking at the underlying stressors that caused the whole issue and begin with. So we wanna- we really wanna be looking upstream and not myopically focus downstream.
Evan Brand: Yup. Yup. So, I mean, that’s the- that’s the crazy about this is you can’t- I mean you- so- so if you wanna be a good practitioner, you have to focus on symptoms, but you always gotta trace it back. So I’m glad you did that because I was like going on a rant there, and you- you did a great job of like reeling it back in. Okay, so, the symptom, you gotta trace that symptom back to a body system that’s dysfunctioning. Okay, so it’s a detoxification issue. Like, with estrogen dominance, it’s a detoxification problem. So the liver could be overburdened due to all these pesticides, so now the liver can’t do its process to get rid of excess estrogen. So, then the estrogen dominance problem grows because the liver has so much stress because you’re eating a bunch of corn fed meat that’s sprayed, or you’ve eaten a bunch of strawberries, or you’re doing uh sweet potatoes, everybody loves sweet potatoes but the average sweet potato that’s not organic has 20 pesticides on it, the average strawberry, according to the environmental working group, has 22 pesticides on it. So you put all that crap in that toxin bucket. And then you mentioned the emotional piece too, so let’s say, you know, you’ve got a bad boss, a bad spouse, a bad family member, I mean, that stuff is all part of our problem too. So, this stuff gets complicated but we do break it down into the body systems. So, this is why… you know, I get frustrated when people say, “Well I bought this probiotic and it didn’t helped me”, or “I bought this glutamine for my gut ’cause I heard glutamine can heal leaky gut”, or “I bought…” uhm, “…this gut healing mineral online ’cause I saw this guy did a podcast on it…”-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.
Evan Brand: -“…and he said this- this supplement is gonna c- clear up my gut” well, you can’t just pick one little tiny piece if this puzzle and expect that to fix you. You’ve really gotta get the systems tested, addressed, and then you retest. So if you’ll look at adrenals, maybe you have really high cortisol because you hate your boss, and your high cortisol all day at work is damaging your gut barrier. Maybe you ar organic with your diet but maybe it’s the cortisol, so we have to test it, right? So, this is why you can’t just go buy a random supplement in whole foods and expect to-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly.
Evan Brand: -get your gut better.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. Now, off the bat, of course we can eat organic and definitely hormone-free. If we’re out of budget, let’s look at the dirty dozen, right, these are the foods that are gonna have the highest pesticides residue. Strawberry, spinach, nectarines, apples, peaches, pears, cherries, grapes, celery, tomatoes, bell- bell peppers, I’ll put links in the progra- in the uh reference sheet, here for the notes on the podcast transcriptions, so look at it there, and [Crosstalk…]. Yup, and then we’ll the put the link and image in the podcast notes. And then the clean 15, these are the ones that have the lowest uh, pesticide residues. So, avocado, sweet corn, pineapples, cabbage, onions, sweet peas, papayas, asparagus, mangos, eggplants, honeydew, and then maybe one more- then there’s uhm, kiwi, cantaloupe, cauliflower and broccoli. [Crosstalk]
Evan Brand: Here’s- here’s what’s crazy to me, that broccoli is on the clean 15, ’cause when I grow broccoli in my garden, you’ve got the leaves that come out of it and then you’ve got the broccoli head just sitting in the middle of it, it seems like how could that be clean 15 it seems like they would just spray it on top of the surface of the broccoli. I’m- I’m- I’m so grateful that it’s on the clean 15 ’cause if I go to restaurant and they have broccoli I’ll order it. But it seems like, how could broccoli be supposedly clean even though it’s so exposed to the open air, it always blows my mind.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I don’t want to say it, it could just be that it’s- it’s got a little bit more thicker of a fibrous coating, ’cause if you look at a lot of the uhm, dirty dozen, they tend to have a thinner coating, right? Strawberries, you could eat strawberries raw, you could eat spinach raw, nectarines raw, apples raw, pears raw, cherries raw, so it seems like it maybe just a thicker membrane on the- a lot of the other vegetables, right? So, clean 15, avocados, right, skin, uh pineapples skin, peas, there’s a pot over it, right, mangos, where you gotta peel it. So it seems like it’s more of a thicker fibrous kind of peel that maybe associated with the clean 15.
Evan Brand: That’s- that’s true. That’s true. Well, where- where should we go from here, I mean, I can just rant all day about pesticide-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: -but you mentioned the stress piece, we talked about adrenals, so testing for adrenals, we talked about grains, pulling out grains, getting people on a- autoimmune diet, likely pulling out the dairy, uhm making sure the meats are grass fed and not GMO corn-fed meats, and- and-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: -and then- and then we going to testing the gut because you mentioned the infections. You and I-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: -see so many cases of parasites.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think number 1, that when you work with a good functional medicine practitioner, there’s a certain kind of protocol that you wanna work through so you don’t miss anything. And the problem is a lot of patients that come through doing one offs. And you just- just thing right or that thing right, and they haven’t done everything together, and that kind of makes them a little bit jaded to pull the trigger doing certain things in the future. So, when we work with patients, there’s a 6-R approach. We’re removing the bad foods, and again, that maybe a little bit different for everyone, like I mentioned, we may need to do more autoimmune, or specific carbohydrate or gaps or low fodmap templates, depending on how bad or damaged someone’s gut is, maybe even an elemental diet. We may even- number 2, we’re gonna be replacing enzymes and acids. If we have a hard time breaking that food down, we may have a problem. We may even have to do elemental diet if someone has severe crohn’s or ulcerative colitis, ’cause their gut is just bleeding on the inside. And then number 3, we’re gonna be repairing the hormones and we’re gonna be working on nutrients to help the gut lining. And we talked about some of the nutrients but in general, we may do things that have L-glutamine in it, uh, collagen, we may do things that have uhm, various probiotics in there, we may uhm colostrum, we may do other anti-inflammatory compounds, aloe, ginger, slippery elm, zinc carnosine, other really good healing nutrients. Then on the remove side, se- the second remove which are to remove the infections. And sometimes with ulcerative colitis and crohn’s and- and irritable bowel disease we have to wait longer because the gut is so ripped up and so shredded, coming in there and doing a whole bunch of killing could be very inflammatory. So if you’re listening to this, and you’re on that category, you wanna work with someone and you really wanna make sure those first 3 R’s get 100% dialed in before we progress to that 4th R. And then 5th R, we’ll work on repopulating and re-inoculating with a lot of good bacteria, and if you’re really sensitive to probiotics, maybe spore biotic or soil based strains we have to use instead. And then the 6th R, is retest. ‘Cause sometimes there’s a new infections-
Evan Brand: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -and then you really- if you have a partner or spouse, you really have to make sure that person is addressed as well if there aren’t chronic infections ’cause you guys can hop potato and pass things back and forth, that’s really important.
Evan Brand: Yeah, I love the hop potato analogy-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: And we’ve seen that time and time again right, where we’ll fix a woman’s gut and then we retest her stool, and then all of the sudden, she’s got an H-Pylori infection again and I’m like, “Okay…”, like, “…how did you get rid of it…”, like, “…we got rid of this and how did you pick this up again, and then finally we get the stubborn husband onboard, maybe he’s not stubborn, maybe he’s awesome and he was too- too busy or he was out of town or whatever, but a lot of times the hubber- the husband is stubborn and says, “Well, I don’t have symptoms, why do I need to test my gut? My wife is the one complaining, I don’t have complaints, I don’t have skin issues like her, I’m not tired like she is, I don’t have autoimmune disease”, it’s like, well, you could be the vector. You could be the one passing her the infections, so we don’t care that you feel amazing, congratulations, but we still gotta make sure you’re not the problem and you’re not the one re-infecting your wife and making her sick because she’s susceptible.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and I- I tell patients sometimes, you know, talk to their spouse about it, it’s not an STD but sometimes we gotta treat it like an STD because people, well, treat the STD a little bit more respectfully, no one’s gonna say, “Well, just ’cause I’m the carrier of herpes and I don’t have it, like, whatever, it’s not a big deal, no!”, you gotta address it, same thing with any other STD. It’s not in that category but it can still be transmitted via intimacy, so we wanna make sure we address that, and it doesn’t go back and forth. And then of course, there’s even things like H-Pylori, which could even spread via saliva which may not even be- you know, obvi- obvious- that’s not even gonna be a sexual thing. You could just kissing your kid on the- on the cheek, or on the lips, uhm, or sharing cup. [Crosstalk] silverware, knives, those kinds of things, and ho- honestly, if someone’s not even washing their hands appropriately after to the bathroom, you know, you may be able to spread a parasite via that way too, that’s very common.
Evan Brand: We- I- I would say anything is possible, right? I mean, we’ve tested thousands of people, we see worms that the whole family can have. We’ve seen parasites that the whole family can have. That’s why I really love working with families because if we got mom and dad tested and then we get the kids tested too-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: -we got to compare the gut, that is my favorite part of my- my job is- is- is, “Okay, mom has this, daughter has this, husband has this”. So we get to pin the pieces together, “Oh, daughter goes to a school, or daughter goes to a daycare, so she might have picked up that there, and then dad have this, and mom had that”, so they pass it to each other, it- it’s just- it’s fun to make the connections like that with the family.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh, 100%. Anything else you wanted to address here today? We have any questions you wanna dive into Evan?
Evan Brand: Uh, while- while you’re looking at questions, I’ll just say that, you know, since I brought up the whole family thing, it’s much easier to do this as a family. So if you are someone struggling, and you have a husband who’s not onboard with your diet. So, here you are eating your grass fed steak and broccoli and he wants to eat pizza, or, you know, the- or you are divorced family and you’re taking care of a child that’s sick with an autoimmune disease or a gut disease, and- and the kid eats really good at your house but then you send them over to dad’s house, or you send them over to grandma’s house, and then they get sick because they’re eating foods over there, that- that’s a huge thing. So make sure that you have the whole family onboard, because, err- when you get to this level of gut problems, there is not any room for cheating. So, your kid can’t eat autoimmune paleo 5 days a week, and then the kid goes somewhere else on the weekend and go eats pizza and like cheese sticks and waffles on the weekend, and then they come back to you and then they’re recovering, and they get sent- sent back again, right? So, you can’t be- you can’t just be picking and choosing when you wanna be healthy, this has to become a lifestyle change for the whole family. And if your family members are not onboard, uh, babysitters, nannies, grandmas, grandpas, dads, cousins, whoever, taking care of your children, or you if you’ve got friends or family that are saying, “Hey, Justin, eat this piece of cake, I promise, it’s just a little bit of gluten, it’s not gonna hurt you”, no! You gotta say “No”, if you’re not gonna support me, you gotta get away, you can’t be pushing this crap on to me.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and of course, we draw a line, right? If you have autoimmune issues, there- there’s a zero tolerance, maybe if you- if you don’t have an autoimmune issue, there’s a little bit more flexibility. I always tell patients, always try to go gluten-grain-free when you have an opportunity, but if there’s something really special occasion, fine, uhm, you know, just do your best on that. So we- we really gotta draw that line though. But for sure, when there’s- when there’s no autoimmune issues, 100%
Evan Brand: Yeah. Oh, somebody said they love my rants. Did you see that one?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I saw it, that’s great. That’s excellent, really cool. And then also, someone says, “Opinion on methotrexate for 13-year-old with juvenile rheumatoid arthritis”. So, yeah, I mean, number 1, you gotta work with someone that’s talking about all the things that we’re talking about. So, feel free and check out Evan or my site an- and dive in, but yeah, you do not want that to be the long-term solution to address this issue, okay? I know-
Evan Brand: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -that’s gonna be the conventional standard of care, uhm, and that may be fine acutely but, not in the long run for sure. It’s just not addressing the root cause. That’s-
Evan Brand: No, it’s not. And- and there was a second part of the question, “How do you feel about red-light therapy to treat juvenile rheumatoid arthritis?”, well, red light therapy would be considered a –
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Palliative.
Evan Brand: -uh, palliative care-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: -maybe it will help, uh far better than a drug, but it’s still not root cause. That kid needs to get a stool test, figure out what kind of infections are going on, make sure the diet is dialed in, start looking at mineral deficiencies and all the stuff Justin hit on earlier.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup, 100%. And then someone asked a question about… I think a certain about iron here, let me see if I can find that question.
Evan Brand: Yeah I saw- I saw a question, there was a couple questions about iron.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, so they talked about, well, how to test your iron. So, first thing is, we’re looking at iron serum, that’s gonna kinda give you a window of what’s in the engine, ‘kay? Then we’ll look at ferritin, that’s the equivalent of what’s in the gas tank. And then we’ll look at TIBC and UIC, which give us a window into uhm, essentially, the receptor sites, the binding proteins. The- the higher they are, it’s like, you know, for instance, the hungrier I am, the more I’m- I’m grabbing, right, the more I’m grabbing. So think of it, the more I’m grabbing, the more fingers, the more hands reaching, that’s like the binding proteins being higher, it’s gonna grab more of that iron, and then or course we have the iron saturation, think of that as like the- the uhm gasoline in the carburetor – is it fully saturated, is it- is it- all the way up in there? So we look at all those markers to get a window unto what’s going on.
Evan Brand: Yeah, blood testing can be good for these types of problems. Blood testing from a functional perspective, is- is helpful, but, if someone’s not where they already have a full-blown diagnosis, we may not need blood work right away on someone, we may go straight to the stool testing, organic acids testing, look at that first and if we need further information. And at least how that’s a- how- uh- how that’s I approach. I don’t know Justin of you do blood right in the beginning, but sometimes I don’t. I’ll go stool, urine first and then do blood later if we feel like we’re missing the piece.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, it depends. If someone- if I see IBD, irritable bile disease, I’ll definitely do some blood work just to see where they’re at with the iron and the ferritin and all that.
Evan Brand: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And then we’ll definitely run organic acids to see how the methylmalonic acid looks, so we can see how the B Vitamins and B12 looks. So that’s- we definitely wanna get a window on those if we see those kinds of problems.
Evan Brand: Yeah, but if they’re not in gut disease level, there just some complaints about gut, you may not go straight into blood right away.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’ve had to have some history that- that would screen that for me.
Evan Brand: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right? And then a lot of patients, they come in with a lot of blood to begin with. So, true, you know, I can- maybe see like, “Hey, maybe the RBC is in the very low 4’s”, maybe that hematocrit and hemoglobin are- are creeping into the, you know, in the mid-11’s for hemoglobin or hematocrit like the upper 30. So, depending on what comes back, I may- I may wanna run more tests than what I see from their previous labs.
Evan Brand: Yeah. There was someone who said, uhm, a future topics suggestion, interpreting the O-test, your doctor ordered the test for you, but then doesn’t know how to interpret it. That’s so funny, I’m sorry. There’s a lot of doctors out there that run testing because they hear about it from people like us and then they don’t know what to do with the test. So then you have this like 75 marker information which is just a pot of gold for Justin and I, but then other practitioners don’t know what to do about it, I would say hang tight, eventually, Justin and I both will have a training course, all about organic acid testing. That’s like our bread and butter, we love it. Uh, but in terms of a podcast on interpreting the O, that’s- that’s not really a good podcast thing.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’ve done a couple of videos on it. So if you go and just google “Dr. Justin, organic acids”, you’ll find a couple of things where I really got a little bit more in-depth on that.
Evan Brand: I’ve done a few videos too about like looking at candida overgrowth and bacterial overgrowth so some interpretation, but I’m hesitant to say “Hey, if you see these problems and you need this herb, because it’s not ever black and white like that.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly, yup. And then tbone writes in, “What’s your take on doing elemental formula the first half of the day?”, I love that. I do that with lot of my gut inflamed patients where- there’s that first 6 hours of the day, maybe even 8 hours, we’ll have ’em on elemental formula with some good like Odo’s oil or good fat in there. And they just sip it throughout the day and it just kind of gives their gut a break while they still get good anti-inflammatory nutrients in their body, too.
Evan Brand: Yeah, Matt White uh left a comment, “There is an interpretation guide by Organix”. Yeah, so like Genova Great Plains, these companies do produce like an- an interpretation guide of some of the markers, and but once again, that doesn’t always lead you in the direction of what you do ’cause they’re- they’re, uh, recommendations are very cookie cutter. You may look at one particular marker, and they- and they’ll say, it may be carnitine deficiency. So you may supplement carnitine, but it could be 20 other causes too. So-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right. And like you’ll see with, I think picolinate will be like, “Oh, you need more omega-3s”, but it- it’s a sign of inflammation. So then you gotta say, where is the inflammation coming from, right?
Evan Brand: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: They’re coming from the gut, so you gotta look- you gotta know, “Okay, what does that mean, what’s the next thing I gotta pivot to?”.
Evan Brand: Yeah, exactly.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: [Clears throat] Exactly. And Lambros came in, “Dr. J., I just got back from my new thyroid labs, TSH, Free T4 , Free T3, should I further adjust the dose?”. Yeah, I mean, I would say your T3 is in the bottom- it’s- it’s in the bottom 5% of the reference range. So, looking where you’re at, I would definitely adjust your dose based on, you know, one equivalent based on your protocol sheet.
Evan Brand: Yeah, there’s person here, they- they uh, so people listening, they’re going back, well, what’s Justin talking about, this person put their free T3 as a 2.1, uh, that’s too low. We want free T3 closer to 3.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup. Exactly. 100%. Anything else you wanted to address here? Uh, one- one of the person talked about the uhm, carnivore diet. And I find with some patients that really do have ulcerative colitis or crohn’s, a carnivore template can be really helpful just ’cause you’re cutting out all of these anti-nutrients in plants. And Dr. uhm, Gundry has talked about this in the book the plant paradox, where he’s talked about some of the- some of these anti nutrients, and lectins and mineral blockers, and protein blockers, and sometimes they can really be a disrupting factor. And believe me, I get some hate email from vegetarians and vegans, they’re like, “How dare you recommend meats, it’s so bad”, I’m like, “Hey, I don’t have a dog in the fight”. And then says, you know, if- unless you’re a clinician and you’ve seen people do- do- you know, do things and improve and be successful, just be quiet. Because you don’t have any clinical experience to speak from, you’re talking like it’s a religion, this is not, this is science, and I’ve seen many patients with ulcerative colitis issues and they have s- they’ve serious resolution, I mean, feel free and just google Michaela Peterson, and she’d had serious autoimmune issues that destroyed her bones, and a carnivore template was huge for her healing. Check out my podcast with uhm Caitlin Weeks, I’ve had handful of uh patients that really have done amazing with carnivore templates that have severe, more autoimmune issues. But some, don’t, and some an autoimmune paleo templates, fine. So, that’s why you need a customized approach, you need to be non-dogmatic. It’s like if I have a whole two belt full of tools, and I gotta- is a nail on that wall? I’m not gonna use my monkey wrench to whack in that nail, no matter how much I love this monkey wrench, I’m gonna pull out the right tool for it, called the hammer, right? Same thing as a clinician, with recommending diets. I don’t care, I just want the right tool do- do the right job.
Evan Brand: Yup. At the end of the day, if you get better, that’s what we want. It doesn’t matter the path to get you there.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Nutrition though has become like politics. People have a really hard time-
Evan Brand: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -talking about it, it’s a very emotional issue, and it’s not, it’s very scientific for me, and uhm, you know, a course that I think there are common things like you shouldn’t have sugar, you know, organic, hormone-free, that those things I think are foundational no matter what template on the spectrum you- you’re adjusting your diet to, of course, right? All foods don’t cost new disease, and it gets a good starting point and then you can adjust from there. And obviously looking at the inflammatory value of a lot of these foods too. And, if we didn’t highlight enough, gluten-sensitivity, gluten is a big issue with autoimmune guys, even if you’re not- you’re not silly-ack, there’s still a lot of research by Dr. Alessio Fasano at Harvard that gluten- even if you’re not reacting can increase gut permeability, which increases things getting into the bloodstream that can exacerbate the immune system and attack other tissue that may be an innocent bystander.
Evan Brand: Absolutely. We can go on a whole rant about that. Maybe we’ll do a show on non uh silly-ack gluten sensitivity, that’d be cool to give Fasano on here.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, that’d be really good. Uh, the problem with these research guys, they’re- you know, I wanna- I wanna keep it actionable and down to earth-
Evan Brand: That is true.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We’ll just take the research and we’ll just summarize it but yeah, I think that’d be great, that’d be really cool.
Evan Brand: That does make it more fun. Yeah, the research it does get- it does get dry.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It- it gets boring. You can take a 5 hours study and you could summarize it in 2 minutes.
Evan Brand: That’s right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhm, but yeah, I- I appreciate it, I think it’s great feedback. Anything else Evan you wanna address?
Evan Brand: Uh, no, let’s wrap this up for today. Uh, well we could- I mean we can do a part 2, part 3, part 4-
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.
Evan Brand: -you can never talk enough about stress and how the different mechanisms of stress affect gut barrier function and all that. But for now, let’s wrap it up. If people wanna reach out to Justin or myself, we can work with you around the world. So go to Justin’s website, justinhealth- justinhealth.com, and you can reach out, schedule a call with him or his staff. Me, it’s evanbrand- E.V.A.N.-brand.com. And we’ll be back next week.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Thanks guys. Put your comments below, I want your feedback of new topics, thumbs up and share. You guys have a phenomenal day and we’ll talk soon.
Evan Brand: Take care.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Take care Evan. Bye.
Evaluation of the Effect of Radio Frequency Radiation Emitted from WiFi Router and Mobile Phone Simulator Study
The Plant Paradox by Dr. Gundry