Detox with the Correct Binders | Podcast #324

Dealing with toxic substances can be an overwhelming experience. With that in mind, it helps when things are simplified and made into relatable terms. Intestinal binders are a crucial part of any detox protocol. When the liver processes toxins, they get excreted through bile and into the small intestine. If the toxins are not bound to anything, most of them will get reabsorbed in the gut.

It is important to note that certain health conditions may make binder types more or less desirable. Having a good practitioner help determine those choices for you is always advisable. Also, there are some circumstances, such as in autoimmune disease and infectious conditions, that require the use of precaution and targeted choices with binders. Proper sourcing is critical as with all supplements, as each of them can come with unnecessary risks if they are not high-grade/quality. 

Binders are like free hall passes! In using a binder, your body is spared the work required to process a toxin through the liver and gallbladder and is, instead, excrete from the body. Check out this podcast to know more about what suits you!

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

In this episode, we cover:

0:18      How Binders Work

8:38      Binders’ Mechanism

15:11     Detoxifying

21:20    Different Kinds of Binders

29:44    Detox as a Side Effect

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Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We are live. It’s Dr. J here in the house with Evan brand. Today we’re gonna be talking about using binders to help detoxify, exciting podcast because we are utilizing all the things that we are chatting about with our patients every week. And we’re excited to share with everyone else, some of our natural strategies, Evan, how you doing, man? 

Evan Brand: I’m doing really well excited to dive into this. This is something that you and I got into several years ago. And it’s been really helpful for our practice, because we’ve been able to take people that were not tolerating protocols, and then we were able to get them to tolerate the protocol. And so when you’re coming in and working on something like gut infections, whether it’s h pylori parasites, bacterial overgrowth, Candida, sometimes, if people have been sick for a really long time, they may not tolerate the protocol we’re giving them. And that doesn’t mean the protocol that we’re giving them is incorrect, or there’s something wrong with it, or there’s an herb reaction or I don’t know, like a, you know, a supplement, it’s not working well for them. That’s not usually the case. In fact, that’s extremely rare. But what rather is happening is that the process of killing off these toxins, I kind of use the analogy of like a bad breakup. And when you’re kicking out the girlfriend, she’s taking off the pictures off the wall, and she’s breaking them and there’s a bunch of glass shards in the hallway as you kick her out. It’s not a clean breakup. And so when you’re killing off these bugs, they don’t want to die, they don’t want to leave. And so they may release toxins that make you feel bad in an effort to get you to stop killing them. Hence, that’s where binders will come in, and they’re acting as the janitor, and they’re going to come sweep up the glass shards that the bugs left behind. interesting way of looking at it. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I like it, like the analogy that I typically give is imagine you got a trash barrel right in your home, well, it may not be a big deal until you go buy a whole bunch of groceries. Now imagine you got a smaller trash barrel. Well, once you throw it away the egg carton and all the other trash from everything else it’s going to overflow. And that overflowing is where you start dealing with die off. And a lot of people, people that are more sick tend to have smaller trash baskets to begin with. And so essentially giving yourself a bigger trash basket or increasing the frequency that we take it out, right, empty it out, is going to help. So I think either analogy works. So in general, I think the first thing I want to highlight off the bat is well, I like to prepare patients to get there you know, to get killing done in the right way. So I’m always working on hormones and adrenals and diet and blood sugar indigestion first, I find that is the most important component to all this. So an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. So before you go in and start having to do all this killing and and use binders, first, get yourself ready for it. And most people do not like that they want to go in there and Kill Kill, kill, kill, kill, but preparations and be really important. 

Evan Brand: Yeah, and it sounds really attractive. And people, they get really excited when they find pathogens on a test. So we’re going to run a comprehensive stool panel, we’re going to run an organic acids test. And we’re going to be jumping on a call with someone to discuss the lab results. And then they’re going to say, Oh my god, I have to get this stuff out of me. I knew I had parasites. I knew I had this. I knew I had that. And then they’re ready. But we kind of have to pace people, you know, when we’ve done this thousand plus times between the both of us. So we know that, hey, based on their constitution, how do you pick up on that as a practitioner? Well, it all goes into stress management? What’s in their bucket of stress? Are they going through a divorce? Are they moving cross country? Are they a teacher? Are they working overtime? Are they a CEO? Are they not sleeping? Well? Are they doing too much alcohol? Those things are going to make us say, Hmm, well, you know what, we probably can’t go full strength with this person. Or if we do, we’re going to need to come in and bring in the binders. And the binders are these tools that they can be used in isolation. And we often use those in isolation. However, the majority of time we’re going to be using them as just part of a protocol, meaning maybe during the day, we’re going to be killing bugs. And then maybe at night, we’re going to be using binders or maybe first thing in the morning when they’re fasted and we know fasting increases the excretion of toxins, including mold and mycotoxins. Maybe we have someone do a binder first thing in the morning at six or 7am when they wake up, and they don’t eat until eight or nine when they take their killing or something like that. So there’s a lot of ways to work these into the protocol. And that kind of depends on the person. It depends on the Constitution. It depends on whether it’s a kid or an adult. But these are amazing tools. And we’ll break it down here in a minute.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep, I like that. I think it makes a lot of sense. So one of the first things we can do to help it die off as decrease inflammation. We know agglutination happens or cells become really sticky when there’s a strong inflammatory environment. So like imagine walking in your kitchen and like the floor is really sticky. It’s like you’re like creeping around that icky feeling on your feet. That’s kind of what happens when you’re inflamed and you start doing detoxification, your body is just all inflamed, things aren’t moving, things are sticky. And we want to keep things loose and flowing and slippery. So the first thing kind of in preparation For all this is getting the inflammation down. So one of the things that I love doing for die off support, we talked about it before. One we’ve already worked on the diet, right inflammations down food allergens, our digestion is better. We’re working on sleep, we’re working on hydration. Getting your hydration up is super important, right? Every time you consume water, you’re diluting the amount of toxins in your body, alright significantly. And so solution to pollution is dilution, high quality, filtered water, reverse osmosis or some kind of really good filter spring water, maybe add some extra minerals in so that you’re getting some minerals to add in some ginger tea. Ginger is natural anti inflammatory, and it’s also a natural anticoagulant. So prevents things from sticking, you could do ginger tea, burdock teas also really good, that’s a good starting place. And then things are moving, your cells aren’t clumping up and sticking together. And then from there, that’s where it’s a good place to maybe add in some binders. So a good first binder would be a really good activated charcoal, especially ones that are kind of more coconut shell based at bedtime, two hours after food and supplements. So it’s kind of in your bloodstream, it’s kind of filtering things out. It’s not getting binding up to all your food and all the nutrients in your food, unless you want to because you’re eating some bad food. That’s a good first starting point to kind of get you moving. 

Evan Brand: Yeah, let’s break down charcoal just a little bit. So people understand what it is they hear it but they’re picturing maybe the charcoal, you know, petroleum based block that your dad used to put lighter fluid on and burn them down and put them in the grill. And then you cook some hot dogs as a kid or something.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, totally. 

Evan Brand: That’s not the charcoal we’re talking about. So basically, what they’re going to do is they’re going to heat these coconut shells, that’s going to be the best. And that basically, they’re decomposed coconut shells. So they’re at a very, very, very high temperature. And then they’re going to combine it with oxygen to, quote, activate the charcoal. And then what happens is, if you were to look at it under a microscope, you’ve got millions and millions and millions of what they would call micro pores on the surface of the charcoal. And it’s when people say bind, it sounds like a magnet, but it’s really not, you know, it’s called an adsorbent agent. And so you’ve got just make sure you had it right. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So it’s not like a sponge. It’s more like a magnet. 

Evan Brand: Yeah, right. So it’s like you’ve got but it’s a weak magnet is my point about the magnet is, is it’s weak, meaning that you actually can create a hurts if you do too much charcoal, for example. So I did it personally, when I went really high dose like 810 capsules, several times a day of charcoal, I actually, I started to get just a little off like I was detoxing too much. And so I found Yes, it is kind of a magnet, but it’s a weak one. Meaning that if you picture like the lava rock, that’s probably the best example in in a big form that people can visualize as those lava rocks. Maybe you had though, that was like old school landscaping. I know as a kid, we had lava rocks in the front of our house. Yep. And so the lava rock, you saw these tiny little holes in it. And that’s kind of the charcoal but but at a bigger level. And so let’s say it’s mycotoxins or heavy metals or pesticide, whatever else is kind of in those little holes. But remember, you still have to move this microscopic lava rock with the, with the toxins on through the intestinal tract. And if you have a leaky gut, some of those things can kind of fall off the law of rock and then go back into the bloodstream, which is why you can hurt even from binders alone. And so this is a really important point I want people to know because more is not always better when it comes to binders. So sometimes you can only handle one cap of charcoal three times a day, some people can handle more than that. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% so you kind of highlight a couple things. What’s the mechanism? Well, there’s gonna be an adsorbent mechanism thing absorbed more magnet absorbed more like a sponge, right? absorbent sponge adsorbent more magnet. Again, we want to take it after food and supplements. We don’t bind up nutrition. I like starting in a bedtime. So it’s working overnight because a lot of how we detoxify happens around one to 3am. So I like having it in the intestinal tract when the liver and gallbladder dump. That way, it’s there binding stuff up and we can excrete it better. Now, one of the big side effects of activated charcoal on binders is constipation. So I always tell my patients Make sure your bowel movements are regular before you go into killing and use any binders because if we’re adding things that could slow down the motility more well that’s that’s a problem. Now, it’ll at least help pull toxins in but it’s still going to be slowing down your body’s ability to get toxins out of your intestinal tract. So that’s not good. So if that’s the case, we’re going to be adding in things to help move our intestinal tract and make sure we’re passing all of our bowel movement out in 24 hours or less 18 to 24 hours. So we have that effective mechanism of elimination working. So first thing is first check is like hydration. Second check is making sure your bowel movements are working and then if they’re not, we’re going to be adding things in to make sure our intestinal intestinal tract is moving appropriately before we add in binders. And if we have Side effects of constipation with the binders, we’re going to be adding more support to keep the bowels moving. 

Evan Brand: And it’s honestly pretty easy. I mean, it’s a very common kind of gut reaction, oh my god, charcoal, constipation. But I’ll be honest with you, it’s rare that it’s something that requires special attention. Because a lot of times we’re doing extra vitamin C, because most people are low in that most people are deficient in magnesium. So we’re doing extra of that already. A lot of times the herb formulas that you are using for gut infections, those may have some extra bow moving support in those and just by clearing out infections you and I’ve talked about, in the past how bacterial overgrowth can create certain gases that will slow the transit time down, just by eradicating those infections, the bowels can return to normal. So yes, constipation can happen. But it’s usually not a huge wrench in the gears. And we can overcome it pretty easily with minor tweaks if needed.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, exactly. So it can go either way. Some people when they get inflamed, they’re pulling a whole bunch of water in to flush things out. If you’re more prone to be constipated, you just have to be mindful of it. That’s why when we’re adding in binders, we’re doing it like one capsule at a time. So there’s no big jump, where people get into trouble is they just kind of come in there with a higher dose or they jump too fast. And that’s where the problem comes in. And again, like Evan mentioned us some of the herbs that we give may have a really, you know, good laxative effects are really healthy intestinal migrating motor complex work well, if not, I’ll be using special special things like magnesium and things like that to keep the intestinal tract moving. Ginger is a really good pro kinetics. So we’ll be adding that in and really just helping to support the natural migrating motor complex of the intestinal tract while adding some binders now, once we start adding some binders at nighttime, we may do it sometime midday as well that way we kind of have coverage within a 12 hour timeframe. So we have some coverage at night, some coverage during the day. But I always start at night first, partly because that’s when we were dumping a lot of toxins at night. 

Evan Brand: Yeah, let me just address this concern real quick. And then we’ll move on to my next favorite binder, which is chlorella. So just like oh, charcoal, constipation, people go Oh, charcoal mineral depletion. I’ve talked with a guy named Neil Nathan, who wrote a great book called toxic. I often recommend people buy that to look into binders. He has worked alongside a guy named Dr. Michael gray, who’s a toxicologist, I believe he’s out of Arizona, he’s a guy who’s been working on treating mold. For decades, this guy has been using, I’ve heard insane numbers like 50 to 100 grams of charcoal per day, we’re talking literally 8090 100 capsules of charcoal a day for years. And there’s never been an issue of mineral depletion, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever. So his kind of argument after I probed him on that question was, well, what about mineral depletion? He goes well, so what if you lose one or 2% of minerals? If you’re getting 98% of your nutrition and minerals, still, the the pros outweigh the cons in the sense that you’re removing toxins that are affecting hormones, the brain, the liver, the kidney, so he’s like, yeah, maybe you lose a couple percent. But it’s never been something that’s called like a heart attack. Because you’ve lost so much potassium or anything crazy like that. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, you’re just going to be taking it away, you’re going to be just taking it away from it. So that’s going to mitigate most of it. If you’re taking activated charcoal with your food all the time. Yeah, maybe you have a problem. But you’re going to be one you’re going to be kept getting a lot of minerals in your water and food throughout the day. And then you’re going to start by taking it at night when you’re not, like overly hydrating anyway, and to at least two hours after you eat and so it’s not that big of a deal. And so yeah, as long as you time it up, right. I just think that’s a moot point for sure. 

Evan Brand: Yeah. All right. So let’s let’s go into chlorella, because I really love chlorella, and I didn’t know too much about it. Besides that you’d see like little chlorella tablets, it always comes in these little green looks like a little Pez or something and they’re kind of hard to chew, but they’re a little awkward to swallow. And then Luckily, I found a couple companies that make micronized liquid chlorella, and that’s what I often use. chlorella is an algae. But it works amazing as a broad spectrum. So a lot of people kind of market it as a heavy metal detox because it has a really unique ability to bind on to heavy metals like mercury and lead and cadmium and arsenic and aluminum things that every modern human has, whether it’s from breathing and car exhaust, to having amalgam fillings in their mouth, but it’s awesome. And I’ve seen I could show you several case studies on pesticides, herbicides, and mold toxins, and chlorella being used to pull those out. We’ve got in fact before and after results of seeing even little kids, 234 year olds that I’ve worked with where they had major, major major pesticides. These were kids that were diagnosed autistic, are on the spectrum. We give them as high doses we can go with chlorella, we retest after three to six months and guess what the pesticides herbicides are gone. And oh my god. I mean, sometimes it just almost makes you cry because it’s like, wow, how is something like this so beneficial, but you’re not hearing about this on the nightly news?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, absolutely. So the first thing we can do to detoxify I always tell patients is stop adding toxins in. So first stop adding toxins in so look at your pesticides right? Look at the food that you’re eating, make sure it’s organic, no GMOs, you know, make note, no added hormones, don’t consume foods and plastics. If you use plastic, you know, try to keep it in the fridge out of the sunlight out of heat out of the microwave. Excellent clean water, filtered water, clean water, if it’s aro, no big deal, add some minerals back in there, I see a lot of people complaining about our water, hey, I rather have my water cleaner, and then add minerals back in and have water that’s more toxic, because you can’t, you can’t add things into the water that make it more or less toxic. It’s either got to be filtered from toxins, and then you can add minerals back in on the flip side. And that’s totally okay. And then from there. And then from there, that’s going to kind of give you that the first foundation because your food’s good, your water is good. And then all your hygiene products make sure deodorants and skincare and soaps were free of toxins there. And that way when we add in binders, there’s going to be just less things that have to be binded. So our body can work on binding up more things that are released from our tissues that are more stored toxins versus toxins that are coming in every day from our environment. 

Evan Brand: That’s a great point. I even forgot to mention that which is duh. Why did people have to get into the situation where they need binders in the first place? Well, it’s they’ve been exposed to toxins. Now, some people they weren’t exposed to toxins on purpose, it was just they ate organic, but then they, you know, stayed a month in a moldy Airbnb or something and they got exposed that way. So it’s not always your fault. But you’re right, you got to empower people and say, hey, look, you can make a choice, you can either eat organic, and not get exposed, or you can eat conventional. But now you’ve got to do the cleanup work. And it’s much better to stop it before it gets in than having to remove it once it’s already in.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. Now, outside of that we can do things that help our livers function better, we can work on phase one detoxification support, which will take a lot of these fat soluble toxins and convert them into water soluble. Now these toxins are mobile. So the activated charcoal really works great when toxins are now mobilized, if they’re not mobilized, these binders aren’t going to really work well because everything’s kind of be in the tissue kind of stored up so to speak. So it’s gonna be hard to really grab it. So getting phase one detoxification support dialed in B vitamins, antioxidants, these are going to be key nutrients, maybe liver tona fine herbs like milk thistle, or dandelion or artichoke root. I have a supplement called liver supreme or antioxidant supreme are both my phase one detoxification support that gets things mobilized. Now if they’re mobilized now we can come in there with binders and we can soak it up a little bit. 

Evan Brand: Yeah, phase two is important to now a little involved, I would suppose with the with the binder conversation, because if phase two is not working, you know, phase one can be up regulated. But if phase two is not working, it’s like you’ve got a fire hose going into a garden hose and the backup can happen there. And I’ll tell you personally, and clinically, when I start to use nutrients to fuel phase to like some of the amino acids. I’ve taken it too far like with everything, you know, because I’m a guinea pig. But I’ve noticed massive, massive improvements just by helping out phase two. And then if I ramp up phase two too much, I’ll throw in binders and then the binders will kind of help mitigate the hurdles from up regulating phase two. So it’s a it can be a little bit of a seesaw sometimes. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. 

Evan Brand: All right, what else what else should we hit on? We should hit on the the Clay’s a little bit as well. You and I love clays that are awesome. You’ve got zeolite you’ve got bentonite clays, those are kind of your top big ones you’ve got like green clays and such clays are awesome. I find that they are really good at heavy metals and molds and will often use it in a blend. So we’ll use a little bit of clay a little bit of charcoal a little bit of chlorella all at once. And they’re well tolerated. I haven’t seen that many people who works from clay so I don’t have any, you know, evidence beyond clinical with this, but I would say that you seem to have less hurting with clays than you do like chlorella or charcoal. I find you can go too much with the others.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly, yeah. So just to highlight a couple of things here regarding the sulfur. NAC. glutathione glutathione is a tri peptide anyway. So that’s made from glutamine, glycine, cysteine, right, taurine, MSM, alpha lipoic acid, just getting a lot of our sulfur nutrients on board is going to be huge. That’s going to help provide a lot of the building blocks for phase two. And that way we’re going to be able to, you know, and acetylation, glutathione, conjugation, methylation, right, these are going to involve a lot of our phase two nutrients and so Phase One, like methylation will evolve, like b 12. And full eight, right? So we want to make sure all those things are working if we need Now, some people, we’re not going to be pushing the toxification directly, we’re going to just be, it’s gonna be there more to help pick up the dead debris from things that are being killed in the gut. But if the activated charcoal still not enough, we may have to push more of those phase one and phase two, just to make sure those toxins are releasing, and then the binders will be there to catch things a little bit as well. So a little bit of a push catch, if necessary. If not, we’ll just be doing more of a catch and the push will be more from the killing side. So everyone’s a little bit different. And I tend to a lot of times this isn’t a problem when you have the foundation built in first. 

Evan Brand: Yeah, the funny thing is going into this podcast, I thought, oh, wow, this will be you know, pretty easy to explain. But the more we dive into it, the more this thing gets a little tricky. And so case specific because some people, they don’t tolerate up regulating phase two that much, and other people they have trouble with the binders. So we try to make this stuff as simple as we can. But keep in mind people this is not This podcast is not designed to replace one on one functional medicine care. So if you really want to get to the bottom of these issues, you need help you need us to help guide you through this because I don’t want you to go in and just pop in a bunch of charcoal and you feel bad. You don’t know why. And then you’re confused about what you’re going to do next. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% So let’s talk about some binders. So activated charcoal, you mentioned the heating like that the you know the which is going to really have a big binding effect. It’s also going to help with mold as well. We have things like bamboo, bamboo binders are excellent as well. We have things like citrus pectin, which are shown to be very helpful for lead. We have zeolite binders which are very helpful for mold. I think activated charcoal is also very helpful for mold. We have things like beetroot powder, which has some natural binding effects for mold as well. Obviously, we have the medication coolest I mean, which is a really good mole binder. There’s some side effects, though, which can lower your sex hormones fulvic minerals, which have some mold and some binding effects to any comments on the different kinds of binders having chlorella, more on the metal side more for Mercury, though more in the intestinal tract. Anything else?

Evan Brand: Yeah, the colas. darmian is strong stuff. I used it. And, man, I tell you it works. But I do believe that it affected my gut negatively. I do believe that. Now I don’t know if I don’t know if that’s a direct influence, or is it a byproduct of dragging mycotoxins out of the system? I’m not too sure. But I would try to tell people don’t use the prescription binder unless you absolutely have to. And you’re just so miserable. You can’t get yourself out of the rabbit hole with it. Because for me necessary for most. Yeah, for me, I just I really struggled. And I was doing the natural binders for months. And I needed a little extra help. So I did it short term. But I would try to stray most people away the natural binders can be really good if you have enough patience and time to resolve the issues.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And you’ve like for you it’s more of a mold thing. So we’re kind of talking for binders for most people is more in the killing side. Right. So for that you had no problems with it. Right? It was more on the mold side, correct? 

Evan Brand: Yeah, yeah, that’s right. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And then you find you fit on the mold binding side, you found that which is better for you when you had what more glutathione and more so for support in along with the binders? Was that true? 

Evan Brand: Yeah, yeah, the glutathione definitely helped as long as I didn’t do too much. And then also helping the glucuronidation pathway that’s also part of this whole conversation. And so calcium D glucose rate did great things for me. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes, calcium to glucose. It’s good. And that’s a estrogen binder as well as a mole binder. 

Evan Brand: Yeah, yeah, it really helps with z, what’s called [inaudible], which is something we test for on the urine. So, you know, like we’ve talked about today, you can have a kind of a broad spectrum approach, but we really try to dial it in if we can, if we see specific mycotoxins, we’ll try to give a little more specific. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. So I think that’s really important. Anything else you wanted to highlight on that?

Evan Brand: I think that’s it. I would just say the first step is really trying to get the data, right, because, you know, people hear the word detox and like, yep, I need some of that. And it’s kind of trendy, which is, I guess, good, but also bad because people just jump into detox not knowing why or what they’re doing or what they’re after. So my recommendation as always our philosophies test, don’t guess and figure out what do you have that you’re detoxing? Do you have a heavy metal burden? Let’s find out. Do you have a mycotoxin burden? Do you have pesticides and chemicals? Do you have all that? Okay, great. Now, let’s make a plan to go after these things. So, like I said, Don’t just run to Whole Foods, buy coconut charcoal and take it if you don’t know why you need it. I prefer people have a reason. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 110% I totally agree. So a couple things, right. So number one, people say toxification. Right? Well, number one, you’re always detoxifying. The question is, are you detoxifying at 100%? Are there enough toxins and stressors in the environment that are impairing your detoxification? where certain toxins are accumulating in your body more than are being eliminated. So number one, you’re always detoxify. Number two, it’s more optimizing your detox vacation systems. Also number three people that talk about cellular detox. That’s marketing garbage. Okay. detoxification is happening at a cellular level. It’s called their cytochrome p 450 oxidase pathways that’s happening biochemically at a cellular level. amino acids, vitamins, minerals, nutrients, these pathways are being upregulated all the time that’s happening at a cellular level. So when people talk about cellular detox, that’s just marketing hooey. Anything you do to help detoxification just drinking more water, guess what you’re enhancing, so detoxification just by you, decreasing inflammation. You having really good nutrition in your food, you’re enhancing the certification. Okay, so don’t get don’t get caught up with a lot of these marketing buzzwords. 

Evan Brand: Yeah, unfortunately, detox is probably the most what would you say? Maybe sleazy snake oily type part of functional medicine? 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, it is for sure. I think a lot of the time it is because people come at it from that’s the first step. So they’re taking people and they’re just trying to upregulate these pathways right out of the gates. And people have gut issues, and they’re being nutritionally deficient for a while. And there have a lot of toxins that they’re consuming food wise, or in their life. Yeah, they can really feel crappy and sick. So it’s probably the last thing I do out of the gates again, specifically, right, we’re always detoxifying. So if I see a patient and I don’t hit the toxification, specifically with those nutrients, but I get them drinking better, cleaner water, and get them going organic, and get them pooping every day. I am enhancing their detoxification, like, tenfold just doing that alone. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it’s just funny, I guess, it gets a little-

Evan Brand: Cheesy, because that’s one of the few things that your average person who knows nothing about functional medicine knows about is the word detox. They probably heard it before their friend drinking detox tea or something silly like that. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right? And then you have like the master cleanse detox, right, which is, hey, that’s cool. You’re giving your digestive system a break, and you’re not necessarily detoxifying. When you when you do that, I mean, you’re not enhancing nutrition, you’re enhancing fasting and autophagy. And, and that can help with stem cells. And that can help detoxify a little bit, because you’re, you’re fasting. So detoxification is a little bit higher there, but you’re not specifically pushing those pathways. Most of those benefits happen because you’re not consuming a whole bunch of food allergens. People feel better doing a Master Cleanse, it’s typically because their diet usually isn’t that great. So when they go on a Master Cleanse, they’re avoiding a lot of those foods that are inflaming them all the time. The more healthy Your food is, when you go to a cleanse, you’re kind of like, Oh, well, it isn’t that big of a deal, because your food’s already really high quality. 

Evan Brand: Yeah, yeah. silica is on the list, too. There are small nutrients. I mean, there’s there’s boron, there’s trace minerals. Or you may be helpful. Yeah, molybdenum can be helpful. So I think we hit on a lot of the big ones, though, a lot of the big tools that you mentioned the pack, then I’ve done packed and I’ll be honest, I haven’t noticed much from it. I do use it in combination with some other binders. But I’ve never done just like a pectin trial by itself and notice any significant difference, meaning I haven’t taken it. And my head’s clear, like with charcoal, if I’m kind of fuzzy, I’ll take a little charcoal and then boom, you know, I’ll notice the clarity. I don’t know if it’s pectins different maybe it’s not binding on to the type of toxin that’s causing the head drunkenness in the first place. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s better for lead I think and Merc, okay, yeah, we’re for the heavy metals, but it’s still helpful, you know, ya know, if you’re gonna be detoxifying, it’s not gonna hurt having that in there. It just wouldn’t be the only thing you’d have in there.

Evan Brand: Right, right. Yeah. And so, and maybe heavy metals, they don’t have as much of a quick turnaround time on your symptoms, whereas mold does, like, I know, if I’ve taken a mold hit, it’s like, Whoa, it’s a pretty quick symptom reaction. Whereas, hey, I breathe in a little car exhaust, I’m probably not going to feel anything right away from that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right. Exactly. Yeah, totally. So anything else you want to add? And I think we really went to town on all this stuff. I mean, I think the key thing I want to highlight for everyone listening, if you’re having a lot of issues or hormone issues of detoxification issues, you know, do the foundation’s out of the gates. But if you’re still struggling, you want to reach out to someone like myself, and Evan, so we can help you all out. We’re available worldwide, and Evan’s at EvanBrand com. I’m at JustinHealth.com, you can click on our schedule buttons, and we can support you and help you during the process. If you need that extra help. We’ve helped thousands of patients together. So we have a lot of experience. And a lot of people have other issues going on, like gut infections, like hormone imbalances, like inflammation issues like other thyroid or autoimmune issues that are part of the issue. And just supporting detoxification by itself won’t be the fix for that. It’s part of a bigger broader plan. Yeah, on the fence. Feel free to reach out guys. 

Evan Brand: Yeah, good point. And some of our mentors that said you really have to kind of market to people for what they think they need, but give them what they truly need. So a woman may say, Oh, I need detox. Okay, so I’m like, Okay, yeah, we can help with that. But hey, guess what, detox is not your number one priority based on these labs, we really need to do this. And as a side effect of working through this, yep, we’ll detox you as well. So, don’t always assume in your head, you’ve got it all figured out. Because there may be a different set or of priorities or a different order of operations. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, it’s always interesting when patients come in, and they kind of have an idea what they want. But then the question is, I’m gonna try to give you what you need. And I’ll try to connect the dots. Because if your goal is to get better and address these issues, then we’re totally in alignment, you just may be, you may think this is what you have to do to get there. But as long as you’re open to guidance, then hey, we can adjust that for sure. 

Evan Brand: Yeah, it’s always a fun process. So Justin mention the links I mentioned a moment of time, Dr. J at JustinHealth.com. available online. And me, EvanBrand.com. And that’s it. So we’ll be back next week. take great care. If you have questions, concerns, comments, you know, write us a review and tell us what kind of topics do you do you want us to cover we’re happy to dive into all of it. We live we eat, we breathe this stuff every day, all day. I mean, this is our life. So we’re very passionate and we would love to hear what you want to hear about. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. And we’ll put a link down below under references for products that we specifically use and formulate to help support some of the pathways and the objectives that we chatted about in today’s podcast. So if you want to support the show, you can also purchase those products that which we believe in personally use for ourselves, patients and family. Awesome, everyone. You guys have a phenomenal day. It was great chatting with y’all. Take care now. Take care.

Evan Brand: Bye bye.


References:

https://justinhealth.com/

https://www.evanbrand.com/

Audio Podcast:

https://justinhealth.libsyn.com/detoxing-with-the-correct-binders-podcast-324

How Does Dopamine Affect the Body? | Podcast #319

You might have heard that dopamine is the “feel good” neurotransmitter. In many ways, it is. In this podcast, Dr. J and Dr. Evan are talking about dopamine and how it is essential for our health. 

Dopamine is a type of neurotransmitter. Your body makes it, and your nervous system uses it to send messages between nerve cells. That’s why it’s sometimes called a chemical messenger. Dopamine plays a role in how we feel pleasure. It’s a big part of our unique human ability to think and plan. It helps us strive, focus, and find things interesting. 

  Dr. Justin Marchegiani

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

In this episode, we cover: 

1:58    All about Dopamine

10:15  Specific nutrients

15:06  Sunlight and Dopamine

22:08  Hormonal Changes

27:18  Healthy diets

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Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We are live. It’s Dr. J here in the house with Evan Brand. Today we’re going to be talking about dopamine. What is it? What are the symptoms of low dopamine? And what are the natural solutions that we can implement that get to the underlying root cause of why your dopamine may be low or even out of balance? Evan, what’s going on, man? How you doing?

Evan Brand: Oh, doing? Well, let’s dive in. This is a fun one. You know, we’ve been looking at dopamine for many years. I mean, over 1000 times, you’ve and I have looked at different clients around the world. And I would say, there are some people that have normal dopamine, like we’ll see it occasionally. But as a general rule, the people that are reaching out to us, I would say, resembled the same as like your typical American because typical Americans probably less healthy than our clients are trying, our clients are trying to be healthy, and they still have low dopamine. And what does this look like symptom wise, let’s go straight into that. So we got to give credit where credit’s due Julia Ross did an amazing job with her book, the mood cure, I think that actually came out maybe the 80s and 90s. But then she’s new versions of it. But she’s got a chart in her book about low dopamine. And so I’m just going to run top to bottom real quick of symptoms, because I think this is where people need to, to think, Oh, this is not just me, this is potentially dopamine or the catecholamines in general. And it’s craving pick me ups. So like caffeine, sweet starches, chocolate, apathetic depression, lack of energy, lack of drive, lack of focus, concentration, attention deficit disorder, easily bored. That’s low catecholamines. And then she goes into treatments, but we’re not ready for that yet. So that’s kind of what you’re, you’re looking for. And this can happen in kids too, right? So parents think, Oh, my kids just a crazy kid. No, they could have low dopamine. We’ve seen it many, many times in children. And I think a lot of it is just due to toxicity for various sources.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% so just to kind of dovetail a little bit more kind of root cause stuff, or just kind of laying the foundation, what is dopamine, you kind of already talked about what some of those symptoms are, which are important, but don’t mean it’s a feel good neurotransmitter, it’s going to help with focus, it’s part of the pleasure reward system in the brain. That’s also known as the motivation molecule. It’s also known as the I Love You molecule, it’s that little bit of you know, a little bit of squirt comes out on that dopamine when you have that feeling of connection or loved one with your family or spouse. It’s it’s gives you that little bit of sense of satisfaction when you make your bed or you clean up your home or you achieve something at work or with your family. Right. That little bit of pleasure you get so dopamine is very important. It’s also helps with stress it helps with dealing with signaling from the brain down to the ovaries or to the adrenals. In regards to healthy stress, communication from the brain or healthy sex hormone communication to the to the gonads in man, it can help with libido and women. Healthy levels of dopamine are very important for keeping prolactin in check when dopamine goes low. prolactin can increase and that can throw off the female hormone cycle, it can throw off FSH and LH it can start to cause imbalances in estrogen and progesterone. So dopamine doesn’t just affect one thing, which is just mood. But it helps you manage stress, it helps you feel good and also can affect your hormones, which then can affect a lot of mood issues, especially as a female as you enter the end of your luteal phase. And you go into pre menstrual time, that seven day time before you men straight or it can also have a big effect on guys just causing low libido and giving you a short wire. So all those things are possible connections for sure.

Evan Brand: Wow. Yeah, you did a great job painting the picture. And on the I guess the far end of the spectrum in terms of issues with dopamine is Parkinson’s disease is definitely connected to this right. I’m not saying that low dopamine necessarily, is the cause of Parkinson’s. I think there’s a lot of causes and things that go into that. But the way that they treat Parkinson’s, for example, is they’re going to use some type of a drug like levodopa, that’s going to work on it, they’re going to basically, they’ll give you the precursors for dopamine. And yeah, and then and then in terms of less patho note, you know, less pathogenic levels, like less disease level state of treatment. This is where, you know, all the college students know it’s going to be the whole amphetamine category, it’s going to be like your Adderall, or vyvanse is maybe even cocaine, those are really going to hit those are really going to hit that and they’re going to be agonist what are called agonist of dopamine.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, so in general that the Kava dopa the levodopa, these basic, more pharmaceutical based dopamine type of analogs are used for sure. The problem with a lot of those is they don’t really give you a lot of the building blocks to make it and then also, when you take a lot of dopamine support, if you take high levels of it, over time, you’re actually going to deplete serotonin because the aromatic decarboxylase enzyme that helps you metabolize dopamine or help you metabolize the precursors, whether it’s phenyl, alanine to tyrosine to L dopa to dopamine. Those require specific enzymes. Those enzymes also get up regulated when you’re taking a lot of those building blocks in metabolizes serotonin. So you can actually create some functional serotonin imbalances when you’re doing high dose dopamine support. Now there is a direct connection, obviously, Parkinson’s, it’s more of an autoimmune issue where your substantia nigra, it’s which are the cells that make dopamine in the midbrain, they get destroyed, you know, for a lot of different reasons. So it could be you space, it could be autoimmune, contributed by gluten or heavy metals, it could be a whole bunch of stuff, right? conventional medicine isn’t really aware of what a lot of the root causes. But we know there’s a lot of weird autoimmune stuff at play. So that’s important to know. Now, if we see someone on the Parkinson side, yeah, we may want to support that it depends on how bad they are, if they need to be on the pharmaceuticals. But if they if they are, you know, we’re going to be supporting all the building blocks like B six and the B vitamin family and fully methylated, b 12. All methylated we’re going to be giving high quality magnesium, vitamin C, maybe a little bit of calcium cysteine. And sulfur amino acids are very, very important when you’re making a lot of these brain chemicals. You need good good sulfur, to help with that conversion, whether it’s cysteine, or Sammy or muthiah. And you need good cysteine to help norepinephrine epinephrine conversion and don’t and dopamine is a precursor to that. So the problem is when you chronically are stressed, your body will take dopamine and it will go dopamine, epinephrine and norepinephrine. And the problem is you’ll pull dopamine to go down these adrenaline pathways. epinephrine, norepinephrine are all going to be catecholamines are adrenaline, right? adrenaline, epinephrine, catecholamines, they’re all the same way of saying the same thing. conventional medicine loves to confuse people. So you have dopamine, it can go down the stress pathway. So fixing whatever that chronic stress is emotional, physical, whatever it is sleep, food, you have to fix that. Or you’re going to be always pulling dopamine to go downstream to your stress hormones. Same thing and women with progesterone, progesterone chronically stressed, you’ll go progesterone downstream to cortisol. So you’ve got to fix that. So you don’t overly pull these good brain chemicals downstream to manage stress.

Evan Brand: And yeah, great explanation of what you’re saying. Sounds kind of crazy, right? Like on your average street corner, this conversation would blow people’s minds. But What in God’s name is this guy talking about? This is not an uncommon situation, though. This is extremely common, like the way you’re talking. And then the way I’m listening, I’m trying to like, listen as like an onlooker to this conversation, they would think, oh, wow, this sounds crazy. I don’t have Parkinson’s. So it sounds like I’m okay. No, there are major, major, major dopamine issues among the general population. And we talked about those symptoms, briefly how it manifests, this could be where you can’t get up in the morning. Now, that could be a low cortisol situation to right, you have permission, as you say, you have permission to have multiple things wrong. So it could be a, you wake up in the morning, you don’t want to get out of bed, when you do get out of bed, you really don’t want to get the day started. You’re just kind of lethargic, you can’t really focus, you can’t concentrate, you’re really having tough time getting yourself together. These are the people that say, Oh, God, you know, don’t schedule anything with me before 11am. Because I am spent I am toast in the morning. It could be a low cortisol, but it could be a low dopamine thing, too. So you would already mentioned some of the nutrients but also, we’d like to use the amino acids like we’ll come in and use things based on testing. So can you guess and check? I guess that’s one question. I want to bring up one conversation piece. Can you just guess and check? Can you look at symptoms alone and then just come in with supplements? Yes, you can. But I would argue that you would probably want to test it because as you’re mentioning the endorphins, the catecholamines, it’d be nice to look at things like your norepinephrine or epinephrine levels on organic acids testing, because if there’s more emotional sensitivity stuff, you and you and I might come in with something like dl phenylalanine, as opposed to just a straight tyrosine. So like tyrosine, we may come in for dopamine, or the velvet being the macoun appearance. We may come in with that for dopamine. But if we see low endorphins, we might want to do a combo. Maybe we do a little bit of DLP, which some converts over to dopamine, but there may be a bigger endorphin problems. So this is where getting a good urine organic acid testing done initially helps because we’ll also look at serotonin and as you mentioned, I want to tell a quick story about what you said. You talked about how supplementing and working on dopamine pathway long term can affect serotonin. I had a yoga teacher as a client one time and she had been taking long term brain support but she was just spot treating like one amino acid but not all the others. And we looked at her brain chemistry and it was completely shifted She had completely boosted up some brain chemistry and completely depleted other brain chemistry. So it’s like a spiderweb is kind of the way I talk about it. Like if you touch this side of the web, you’re going to affect the other side of the web. So that’s why you want to be targeted with your approach when you’re coming in with nutrients.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% So, we have specific nutrients. We talked about the conventional medical approach that are giving the cinnamon or the levodopa carbidopa that can create a lot of problems in the long run because it can decrease serotonin. And then a lot of times it can deplete a lot of the sulfur. And so a lot of times there can be a toxicity component with low dopamine, whether it’s mold or heavy metals or pesticides, or just recreational drug use. I’ve heard of patients doing you know, let’s just say more cocaine or more stimulant medications that can actually deplete your dopamine because you’re basically flooding a lot of the dopamine past that synapse. And you’re basically whipping a tired horse right? So you stimulants are like the way of whipping a tired horse right? feeding and nourishing a tired horse. Right? construct vehicles are like good nutrition, sleep, hydration, good adequate nutrient dense foods, right? healthy proteins, healthy fats that’s like constructive vehicles, destructive vehicles are going to be stimulants. methamphetamines, cocaine, Adderall, vyvanse, all these different things that are going to just overly whip you, right? Too much caffeine, too much coffee. That’s like whipping a tired horse. Short term. Can it work? Sure. Right long term? Definitely not. So we were the one to make sure that when we’re working with people, we’re kind of drawing the line between constructive and destructive vehicles, because the goal was never just to fix the symptoms. Now, because we can do that with short term, destructive vehicles. Right, we want to use construct of vehicles that fix it and actually heal it in the long term. We want to make sure whatever those diet and lifestyle habits that kind of drove this to begin with, we want to make sure those are at least neutralize, or we at least have enough habits to kind of balance out the healing on the other side of the fence. So we always got to look upstream. At the organ systems that may not be functioning well. adrenal is female hormones. Looking at adrenaline because adrenaline plays an important role with the adrenal is because when the adrenal is are overly stimulating cortisol or having chronically stimulated cortisol and adrenaline and noradrenaline, or epinephrine, and norepinephrine, same word, don’t get confused there. They play a big role. And so epinephrine and adrenaline, they all are like the first responder that gets cortisol ready to go and prime. So when people talk about cortisol, stress and adrenal stress, it’s impossible to have chronic cortisol stress and not have some type of adrenaline or epinephrine stress alongside because they work side by side.

Evan Brand: Yeah, well said. And then I’d say the guts tied in maybe not as much with dopamine as it is serotonin. But we rarely see issues like this happening with a perfect gut situation, because we know that the amino acids you’re going to get from your proteins, assuming you’re digesting your proteins, well, those are going to help and act as precursors for brain chemicals. So we will look into the gut to I mean, we can do urine testing, and look at neurotransmitters like I know the guts looks at neurotransmitters a bit I prefer the organic acid panel, you know, from into it, because I do a mold panel with it. So I prefer that for brain chemistry. But the guts still important, and we’ve seen which is kind of interesting. Just by improving people’s gut, we’ve seen neurotransmitters come back online without having to specifically supplement brain chemistry nutrients, which is pretty cool.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% so when we look at someone’s dopamine, we always got to get to the root cause right? Can a crappy diet with just too much refined sugar cause low dopamine? Yes, right? that’s a that’s a destructive vehicle. high amounts of sugar. high amounts of alcohol can flood dopamine past that synapse. And it can create that dopamine rush that people are looking for. Chronic stress can obviously can things just like gluten exposure or some kind of a gut infection or gut inflammation or gut bug? Like you kind of alluded to absolutely how, because it can create stress and inflammation in the gut. And that can create malabsorption of important amino acids, like your dopamine phenylalanine tyrosine, right, your dopamine precursors, all those building blocks, all your sulfur as well. So of course, anything that affects gut absorption can have a major impact on those building blocks, getting to where they have to go, it can create a bottleneck. Anytime we’re just overly stressed whether it’s physical, chemical or emotional stress, that’s going to cause you to convert more of your dopamine to adrenaline, noradrenaline, epinephrine, norepinephrine to manage that stress. Same thing with women and cortisol, right? Women can go progesterone right to cortisol and that can create estrogen dominance like issues and again, hormones with women can play a big role on your neurotransmitters so adequate levels of progesterone can help but Gabba Gabba can help relax relaxing, right? The more relaxed You are the less chance that you’re going to be converting dopamine to adrenaline. So you see how healthy female hormones and healthy cortisol levels play a role with not needing to over stimulate the neurotransmitters. Well, they’re all connected.

Evan Brand: Yep. Let’s go into just some like basic stuff. I sent you a link in the chat you can check out which is a good list that has some studies to back it up. So I’ll just kind of run through a few of these kind of easy ones that people don’t think about in regards to lifestyle. You hear about people talking about sunlight and dopamine. It is true there is some some papers on dopamine being increased and this is why a lot of people may get more seasonally depressed in the winter. I think a lot of it’s more serotonin but I do believe dopamine has a factor of exercise, of course increases dopamine, meditation, yoga, touch massage, music, we’ve already hit on the foods we’ve already hit on some supplements. Interestingly enough huperzine which we love huperzine I use huperzine and a lot of brain nutrients. So we all we often use huperzine to increase acetylcholine going yet memory learning, but I didn’t know this it also increases dopamine. There’s a paper here it says it increased dopamine by 129% above baseline with huperzine I thought it was primarily working on the acetylcholine esterase enzyme but apparently-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -not connected. Yeah. I know with serotonin and dopamine you can you can help support Gabba just by having healthy serotonin and dopamine so everything’s connected. So when you work kind of, you know, above below, inside out, you tend a lot of these things tend to trickle down and and support that healing.

Evan Brand: Resveratrol. That’s interesting. Resveratrol increases dopamine by 53%. Oregano, that’s pretty cool. We typically use oregano for gut infections, but apparently it’s increasing dopamine levels by decreasing dopamine breakdown. So must be working on that enzyme again.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, makes sense. Interesting.

Evan Brand: Probiotics lacto. Last one here, Lactobacillus plantarum. That’ll increase dopamine. So that’s pretty cool. I mean, we you and I’ve seen this thousands of times where we see that mood issues improve by fixing the gut, and that would include probiotics. So there’s a mechanism that we didn’t necessarily think right off the top of the head lactobacillus helping.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I know also vitamin D and curcumin, anything that’s tends to be more on the anti inflammatory side can help I know vitamin D plays a big role, obviously helping with the immune, but that can also play a big role in helping with dopamine as well. Curcumin plays a big role as well and increases serotonin and dopamine levels in mice, which is very interesting. We’d already talked about tyrosine and phenyl. alanine, typically we use tyrosine over phenol, alanine, because it’s a little bit later on in that transition, that conversion, we may even use some l dopa, but I recommend don’t use l dopa, just if you’re an you know, just a regular person trying it out, it’s can be a little bit potent. And if you do too much of high dopamine precursors, especially l dopa, it’s so potent, you can feel incredibly spaced out and almost drunk. It’s, it’s pretty bad. Like you don’t want to be operating a vehicle. If you do too much dopamine, it’s you’re pretty disoriented, and loopy. I’ve done it a couple times by accident as I was dosing up. So it’s harder to do that with tyrosine support. But you know, all your B vitamins all your methyl donors B six, and B nine, which is full eight, or B 12, methylated. You know, B one, two, and three, I mean, riboflavin, niacin are all very important. We talked about the soul for how an important role that plays. And then you know, of course, your good curcumin and fish oil, they all have kind of a mono aiming oxidase inhibition. So mano a means or like, these are going to be things that help break down or model aiming inhibitors. They basically allow these neurotransmitters to hang out between the synapses longer so you have a presynaptic synapse, a postsynaptic. And this is the synaptic cleft where they kind of hang out. And anytime you can delay the breakdown of that, you’re going to increase the levels of that neurotransmitter between them. Now the problem is when you do drugs or SNR eyes, right serotonin or selective norepinephrine, reuptake inhibitors, right? You can get a short term bump, but the problem is, the longer you cause those brain chemicals to hang out there, the faster they break down. So you end up kind of robbing Peter to pay Paul, so to speak. So some of the natural compounds that help that can be better because it’s kind of more of a gentle nudge versus overdoing it and causing more of a problem.

Evan Brand: Yeah, so I want to hit on one thing. Now this is like low dopamine, we’re talking about not high dopamine. But one thing that we’ve seen clinically, I think may be important is the issue with clostridia and Clostridium being a bacteria that really messes up the enzyme. Yes, yeah, long, long word. It’s gonna make me sound smarter than I am. But it’s called dopamine, beta hydroxylase. That’s the enzyme that gets messed up with Clostridium. We’ve seen it so many times. And we see it a lot in kids. And we see it in kids that have behavioral issues. And so that would be a situation where testing comes in. Because you may look at a kid and they go, they’re they’re, you know, bouncing all over the place. They’re not focused. It actually could be a high dopamine situation. We’ve seen it many times, and you have to come in and fix those gut infections. You’ve got to come in and really address that clostridia first and then the brain chemistry will fix itself. So there are some situations We’re just assuming you have low dopamine throwing amino acids and somebody would not be a good strategy.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Correct. So when we’re looking at someone, and we’re trying to assess Is there a neurotransmitter component, we’re always kind of looking at the dietary component because if we don’t get nutrient dense foods with lots of good B vitamins and lots of full spectrum essential amino acids, especially from animal products, we’re gonna have problems if we’re not able to break those foods down. with adequate enzymes or HCl, we’re gonna have problems but we have a lot of adrenal stress or hormone imbalances that can play a big role. And hormones play a big role in helping to allow those neurotransmitters to work better in the Hangout longer between the synapses, okay, especially females, because progesterone and estrogen dominance can play a big role in that too. The other component is chronic infections can affect the absorption of a lot of these things and create bottlenecks. But we’ll also run organic acid test alongside to see how these metabolites look. So we may run things like [inaudible] or homovanillic, which gives us a window into homovanillic. dopamine and give us window to vandal Mandalay adrenaline. So if we have higher amounts of adrenaline, that means we’re pulling a lot of that dopamine to make it or if we have low amounts of adrenaline, that tells me that those pathways are probably been whipped like a tired horse for a long time. And now now that amounts low, probably because there’s some level of depletion upstream with dopamine. And same with dopamine. If we see low dopamine that tells us there’s depletion if there’s a chronic high dopamine metabolism. We’ve been whipping that tired horse and we kind of treat I treat dopamine, high and adrenaline high, like the same thing. You’re just over stimulating that pathway. And we got a comment down.

Evan Brand: Yeah, and I’ve seen it a lot in let’s talk about some of the people like when and where are we seeing this? I mean, technically could be anyone. Right? But I would say after having babies, so women will we’ll see, you know, depleted neuro transmitters after babies. I mean, you’re up all night, you know, you’re young, you’re stressed. You’re you’re breastfeeding middle of the night. So I would say new moms, we see this quite a lot. I think some of the whole postpartum depression. There’s a lot of mechanisms. Have we done a show on that, by the way? Maybe we should add that to the list. Have we done that?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: No, we should do that. Okay, cool.

Evan Brand: So we’ll have to hit that. But I think part of that goes into the neuro transmitters. I know there’s a big hormonal change, too. But I think new moms would be a big one, I would say business owners, CEOs, entrepreneurs, maybe pilots that are changing a lot of time zones, anybody working more than I’d say 40 to 50 hours a week. I mean, you see 60 70 hour work-week people, they’re going to be depleted, I would say, night shift workers, ER workers, doctors, nurses, you know, frontline health care workers, those people generally we’re seeing a lot of brain chemistry stuff. They’re just burning the candle at stress. What else? Am I missing? Anybody? Can you think of any other like big patient population group that will be affected by this?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I mean, I would just say, if you have an eating disorder as well, anorexia, chronic low calorie eating, all those things can be you know, a real thing. People talk about a lot of the benefits of fasting, but if you aren’t getting enough nutrition, that that benefit of fasting becomes anorexia pretty fast, right? Anorexia is basically just starvation, chronic low calorie, which low calorie equals low nutrition as well. And so if you’re chronically fasting, and you’re better leading to a chronic low calorie diet, that’s a problem too. So we have that component we got to keep an eye on so if we’re going to be doing fasting, well, you got to make sure it’s a punctuated fast. Or if you’re doing more intermittent fasting, you still have to make sure you’re getting enough nutrition during that compressed six to eight hour feeding window.

Evan Brand: Yep, that’s good advice. Yeah, the eating disorder. One is huge. And people might not even know they might not be, you know, had to be diagnosed. I mean, even this whole idea of orthorexia, right, where people are trying so hard to be healthy, we did a podcast on that. I think people will get into that by accident, they’re going to low carb, they’re going to low calorie. Maybe they’re having food reactions. So they’re limiting their diet, and then boom, by accident, like you said, the neurotransmitters get affected, then you’re, then you’re not motivated to get back on track. Right. So then, once you’re off track, then what happens? Well, maybe you go into too much sugar or too many cookies. I mean, you can, you know, there are effects. We’re not just talking the brain chemistry in a vacuum here, we’re talking how does this affect your life? Well, you know, getting things done, cleaning, organizing, taking care of your kids, getting your business done doing your taxes, I mean, just all the stuff you need to get done becomes so much harder if it if it’s requiring an extreme amount of effort to get things done. Consider cortisol, but also consider dopamine.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, you really want to like look at the whole picture. So I know we’re kind of really focused on dopamine today. So people listen to me would say, hey, I want to get my dopamine check. That may be a good call, but I recommend looking at everything looking at least the adrenals looking at maybe some of the organic acids, any gut issues at all definitely look at the gut. Remember, half of all gut issues may be things like energy or brain fog, or mood stuff. So people kind of have their gut connected to like bloating and diarrhea and constipation and acid reflux, that may not be the case. So I always tend to to recommend look at all three body systems, so you have a more holistic look. And we always want to go upstream at the underlying systems that may be out of balance. We also look at the underlying stressors that broke those systems down to begin with, whether it’s chronic exercise, chronic exercise can be people that are looking for that runner’s high that dopamine serotonin hit. And over time, they just that exercise is going to deplete it. It’s like a tired horse, the right amount of exercise not too much. cardio can be very supportive and can be a gentle stimulant, where you go over the top too much CrossFit, too much long distance aerobic that may actually cause a chronic depletion. So we got to, we got to hit it from both sides, we got to look at the underlying stressors, food sensitivities, gluten inadequate sleep, we can look at just over stress, maybe needing to add in things like meditation or visualization or appreciation or prayer, things like that to kind of help hit the gas pedal and help your body relax. Those are all very important too.

Evan Brand: Oh, yeah. Good call on the athletes. I forgot to mention that when I had a lady who was a runner. And she was a college student. And she was running, I want to say it was either three or five miles a day. And we looked at her brain chemistry, my God. I mean, it was one of the lowest dopamine and endorphin levels I’ve ever seen ever, except for a guy who was a real estate person who was doing cocaine. He was about the lowest brain chemistry I’ve ever seen. But this lady was a close second divorce. Yep. And man, I just told her, I just say, Look, just stop running. I know you don’t want to but stop. You’re addicted to it, but you’re tired. And we just got to run some gentle exercises. I told her go for a walk, go for a hike, lift some weights, but keep your heart rate relatively low. And on the retest her brain chemistry It was amazing. Now granted, we did do some supplementation, too. But yeah, so good call on the the over trainers. How about personal trainers do maybe they’re teaching people to movement? So they’re just like working out all day? I think those people could be at risk as well.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% Yep. 100%. So looking at everything here, we always want to get to the root cause. So we talked about some of the nutrients, right, we talked about, we talked about some of the testing that we have to look at here. We talked about the low hanging fruit, right healthy proteins, healthy fats, you know, more more vegetables than fruit and starch out of the gates. Now, if you know that you do better with more fruit and starch because you’re more leaner, you’re already at a good weight fine. People can overdo sugar and carbohydrates to increase dopamine levels too. So that sugar addiction, that’s real people talk about like, Oh, I, I’m an emotional eater. What does that mean? It’s too like, abstract for me. But what I hear is, Hey, I’m whipping that dopamine up. So I feel good and can manage the stress of my day, right? I’m trying to artificially get my dopamine levels up. And that’s not good. So people that are emotionally eating, you’re just trying to get that little whack and dopamine and that little whack of serotonin, which I get it in the short run that that may be okay for you. And that’s a clean piece of dark chocolate, something like that. But if you’re overdoing lots of carbohydrate and sugar, inflammatory foods, not good. We rather use a lot more of the nutrients and other things to kind of get it up. So I really want to get to the underlying cause physical chemical, emotional stress, look at the body systems, get some you know, you want to test not guess, use some of the natural supplements stay away from the bigger you know, l dopa stuff out of the gates work with the good functional medicine practitioner like myself or Evan, EvanBrand.com for Evan, JustinHealth.com for myself, we’ll put links down below and just start with the low hanging fruit. And if you want to dive in deeper, get some testing and start with the foundational things out of the gates. Evan, anything else you want to highlight?

Evan Brand: Yeah, great calls on all of it. Thanks for the website. So yeah, JustinHealth.com or EvanBrand.com. Please reach out. And the good news is you can reverse this and you can change things relatively quick. I mean, we’re talking within just a few months you can have a significantly different profile in regards to your neurotransmitters so don’t give up. If you’re feeling depleted you don’t even have enough dopamine to click the subscribe button. Well, I hope this podcast gave you enough motivation to hit the subscribe button, share it and then if you need to reach out please do we’re here for you. We love helping people and there is always hope so hang in there.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We appreciate it guys. Also, down below. There’s a little review link JustinHealth.com/iTunes. Click that review. Really appreciate it. And you guys have a phenomenal day. Take care Evan.

Evan Brand: Take care now.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Bye bye.


References:

https://www.evanbrand.com/

https://justinhealth.com/

Audio Podcast:

https://justinhealth.libsyn.com/how-does-dopamine-affect-your-mood-energy-podcast-319

Recommended products:

Dopa Replete Plus
Dopa Replete
Genova NutrEval® FMV

Fatigue, Tiredness, and Lethargy: Link to Gut Infection | Podcast #311

Tiredness is not a symptom that defines any one particular disease. Rather, tiredness can be a symptom of many different diseases and conditions. Causes of tiredness range from lack of sleep and over exercise to medical and surgical treatments. The lack of energy (lethargy) associated with tiredness can sometimes cause difficulty with normal daily activities, leading to attentiveness and concentration problems. 

Dr. J suggested considering to support protein breakdown by extra amino acids and enzymes. Dr. Evan also added that if you have issues, always reach your conventional Dr. or functional Dr., be tested, find the root cause and guide to fix possible infections that cause you to feel tired before you reach a crisis level.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

In this episode, we cover:

1:10      Mechanisms to Gut Infection

4:05      Where Gut Stressors Come From

12:12     Infections that causes Fatigue

17:41     Probiotics and Beneficial Bacteria

22:32     Supplements to Gut Infection

24:18     Immune Issues

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Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And we are live. It’s Dr. J here in the house with Evan brand. Today we’re going to be chatting about your gut infections may be making you tired. Many people don’t think about how their gut maybe having an impact on your energy, your mood, your emotions, but it’s totally true. Most people think, oh, if I have a gut issue, I’m just gonna have bloating or diarrhea or constipation or acid reflux. Oh contraire. We’re gonna dive into that today, Evan, how are we doing today, man? 

Evan Brand: Doing really well. How about should I just go straight into my story, then? I mean, I suffered with this thing firsthand, as you know.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep. Let’s do it. 

Evan Brand: So when I was down in Austin, I was losing weight. And I didn’t know why I was losing weight. And turns out and I was exhausted. That was that was the main thing. I mean, I was drained, like, it was really tough for me to get through the day. I mean, I was to the point where, at some point, it’s kind of embarrassing. I mean, I was like, okay, am I do I have enough energy to cook a meal at night, you know, for dinner, like, the workday just drained me. And so fortunately, after I got the gut infections resolved, I mean, the story is not much longer than that my energy came back online. So I mean, we can say clinically, and personally, that this is a big, big smoking gun for anybody who’s been dealing with chronic fatigue.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, totally 100%. Now, let’s talk about some of the mechanisms why like, you could have constipation, you could have diarrhea, you could have all these digestive issues, that’s fine. And it makes sense why some of these issues may be causing problems. Because if you’re going to digest a lot of the nutrients that energize you, right, B vitamins, your amino acids, your essential fatty acids to burn them in the mitochondria for fuel, all of these things require optimal absorption, right? So if we don’t have adequate enzyme, or acid level or biliary level to break down fats, proteins, and carbohydrates, we’re going to have a problem with those nutrients getting into our bloodstream and making their way to ourselves and our mitochondria to be burned for fuel. So that’s one big mechanism. And the other big mechanism out of the gates, and we’ll kind of expound deeper into each one is the fact that your immune system sucks up lots and lots of resources. So think back to when you maybe got the flu or had some kind of illness. Were you energized? Are you tired? Most people were very tired. Now, why is that? It’s because your immune system allocates lots and lots of resources when it’s stressed. And it will make you tired, because it’ll pull some of those energy resources to put it towards fighting an infection. All right. So if your immune system is caught chronically in that state of trying to fight something, whether it’s a gut infection, cebo, or parasite, or just gut permeability issues that are upregulated, due to bad foods, and food allergens, you’re going to be really over stimulating and over allocating resources to deal with whatever’s happening with the immune system, aka the gut. Don’t forget 80% of your immune system is located in the gut, people forget that so important. So if you’re over stressing your immune system, you’re gonna have problems. 

Evan Brand: Yeah. And so for me, I was taking some immune support, but it was all just kind of a bandaid, right? Because I wasn’t focused on the underlying infection. So this time of the year, we’re, we’re talking in the fall here coming up on winter, you have a lot of people that will say, Well, you know, I really just want to strengthen my immune system. So they’ll go and do maybe some extra vitamin C, maybe some medicinal mushrooms, or maybe some other herbs, astragalus, things like that. But it doesn’t matter if you do all those if you don’t address the infection. So if someone’s like, tired and they feel weak, they feel depleted. They feel like they’re possibly immunocompromised. Sure, you could do some of the tools, like we talked about those herbs, but really, you got to test first of all, figure out what kind of infections you have. And then step two, is you come in and make a protocol to fix those infections. And not to mention, you know, like h pylori is super contagious. So, I mean, you and I’ve seen hundreds and hundreds of cases where, you know, husband and wife have reinfected each other. And so we’re not doing this to try to make more money. We’re doing this to help the family when we say, Hey, what about your husband? What about your wife when we try to get them on board? It’s because we know about this potential, you know, cross contamination.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. So we kind of look at the gut, and we’re like, Alright, where are the gut stressors coming from? So the first stressor we look at are food allergens, because if your immune system is kind of responding negatively to food, that could be a big a big issue, right? And what happens is, when food allergens kind of come in, whether it’s gluten or dairy, or just you know, processed grains, or sugars, or even things like nuts, or seeds, or just more allergenic foods, soy those kind of things. Your immune system is upregulated dealing with those foods, and that’s going to suck away resources. And also, these foods if you have an allergen to them, if your body’s hyper allergenic, meaning your immune system is over responsive. There may be some gut permeability. And gut permeability is like these little tight junctions in the epithelium in the small intestines. They’re like this. So imagine you’re putting your hands together like you’re saying a prayer now, start pulling your fingers apart a little bit, you see the little gaps that happen that’s happening at a microscopic level with the tight junction cells in the small intestine. So the more you’re stressing your gut lining, these tight junctions open up, like I mentioned, the fingers come further apart. And then food particular we call it antigens, right? These foods aren’t supposed to be in the bloodstream at the size they’re in. Now you start having these antigens go into the bloodstream at a larger level, and now the immune system’s going to start going after it with full force. And that’s gonna start sucking up a lot more of your resources. So the first thing when we’re working with patients worldwide, we’re trying to cut down the food allergenicity we’re trying to decrease the immune response by helping the foods not become so bad or stressful on the immune system. So some people coming in on a standard American diet, a paleo template, maybe enough. Some people that are really have an autoimmune issue or Irritable Bowel Disease, we have to go to a paleo template where we’re cutting out extra allergenic foods, some we have to even go to a carnivore or some kind of an STD low lower fodmap diet because the bacteria is overgrown, and it’s reacting to even fodmap foods like broccoli and onions and garlic like healthy foods, were reacting to it. And so it this whole thing becomes a little bit more nuanced with food, the more unhealthy you become, or the longer your conditions progress. So as a practitioner, right, we’re trying to meet people where they’re at some people come in at a really easy phase, they’re just diets crap. And we can just make a simple change with the Paleo some we have to get a lot more nuanced. 

Evan Brand: So let me ask you, you brought up garlic. I had a woman last week, actually. And she was complaining that garlic was a big issue for her. So we’ve already cleared out gut infections, and we’ve done a great job. We’ve retested we’ve confirmed that we got rid of all the gut infections, we are doing some leaky gut support, but she says every time I eat garlic, I get really bloated. What would you What would you do? What would you say to that garlic person? 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, it could be a SIBO thing. So I’d want to test other fodmap foods. So if there’s some kind of a gut issue or like a bloat or a motility issue, or a diary or a constipation issue, we’re going to be cutting out fodmaps fermentable carbohydrates, fructose, oligo, disaccharide, mono and polyols. And we’re going to do that and then we’ll eventually do a reintroduction. And when we reintroduce foods, we’re going to start with moderate fodmaps first and then go to higher fodmaps. Last, so those foods are higher fodmap. So the question will be How did she do adding in the moderate ones? First, I want to know how she did incrementally adding things in.

Evan Brand: So like apples, she does fine, which was interesting, because to me, I’ve had a lot more people have issues with apples than I have with garlic. So I thought Hmm, you know, is it really a bacterial overgrowth thing? The stool test didn’t really show much in the in the bacterial category. So it’s kind of like, well-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: when people like that, I just want to see is it a one off? Is it just garlic? Or is it other foods like onions and broccoli and avocado, which is a moderate or sweet potato, which is a matar, I want to test more of the moderate fodmaps? Maybe add in some fermented foods like a kombucha or a sauerkraut? Did it happen with those two, if it’s just a one off, then it could be some die off, it could just be she’s having an issue with that food. So if it’s a one off, I don’t really worry about one offs, I look for patterns, like patterns or like part of being a good functional medicine doctor, it’s pattern recognition, you’re looking for patterns, like some patient that can be Well, last week I had this happen or that like, we got to look at bigger picture, we got to have enough data points. So we can look at patterns. Anything can happen one off due to stress or a poor night’s sleep, or you got exposure to some bad foods. And now your guts a little bit rocky for a few days. So we got to look at longer trends and really have a lot of good pattern recognition. Part of what we do, we’re kind of CSI detectives, and we got to look for things repeating itself, because anything can happen one off, we don’t want to change what we’re doing, or the programs that people are on, off of just a one off issue.

Evan Brand: And that’s what it was, it was a one off and it was kind of, you know, frustrating for me because I’m thinking well, crap, you know, everything else, she’s tolerating good and any other problematic foods, I’d kind of put in that same category that we thought would be a problem. They’re not a problem. So I’m sitting here thinking, Okay, well, what kind of explanation Can I give her? Because she wants some kind of good functional medicine answer for me, right? And so that’s what I told her. I’m like, well, this sounds like just Oh, to be honest, kind of like a food sensitivity, particularly to the garlic. You know, I don’t looking at the testing. I told her I didn’t really see anything that was compelling to indicate any other sort of issue and all the other foods were tolerated. So I kind of just gave it like a political answer. It was like, wow, hmm. You know. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, well, we’ll come it’s possible there could be just a, her immune response is just a little bit more sensitive to if we don’t see extra data points correlating to it, then I just tell patients, hey, let’s just we’ll come back. We’ll work on probiotics. We’ll work on good re inoculation of good healthy bacteria while adding some prebiotic fibers every month. We can try testing it again. But as long as there’s no yeah, as long as there’s no, let’s just say, family of other foods that are interacting like this, then we’re not going to really worry about it too much. But you can always retest, make sure that gut’s doing good, but it’s possible you have one off allergen issue that’s possible. But every month, we can always retest it and see.

Evan Brand: Yeah, good point, I did end up throwing in a high dose, multi strain probiotic. So we’re with a high amount of bifido. So we’re gonna see what happens. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and this person could tolerate fermentable carbohydrates, like sauerkraut and, and maybe a little bit of kombucha it’s probably not a fodmap issue, because those things are very, very high in fodmaps. It could be she’s killing some stuff off. It could just be she sensitive to garlic. It’s possible. Yeah. And so I mean, I just tell patients, hey, you know, that’s an artifact, we just kind of make a note on it. When we follow it down the road later on. If things kind of connect back to it down the road. That’s nice. But if not, things that are one offs. You don’t want to you don’t want to one off to derail your whole investigation. 

Evan Brand: Yes. Yes. That’s a great point. You know, it’s like you’re, you’re you’re like, you know, investigating a crime scene, and you have his weird piece of evidence. That does not make sense. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Right. Okay. Well, we’ll make a note on that. And we’ll come back to it if there’s any patterns that they point back to it down the road.

Evan Brand: Yep. Yep. Great. So so small tangent, but really helpful. I think it’s, it’s helpful for people to see how do you have to think when you’re approaching these issues, it’s not always black and white, you know, we try to refer back to clinical experience, we kind of sprinkle in some of the data sprinkled in some previous case studies that we’ve done with people. So it’s really fun. But back to the fatigue piece. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So I just wanted to highlight one component, because while you’re on it, is when we are talking about these things, because we’re clinicians, and we see thousands of patients, we’re operating more off of clinical concepts than like rote memorization of like, a fax. And so when people listen to our podcasts, we really want them to understand the overarching concepts of health. If you understand a concept, you don’t really have to memorize it, if you’re trying to memorize random facts and randomness, and that becomes a little bit convoluted and a little bit stressful. So just try to get the overarching concepts that we’re talking about here. Once you get the concept, you never have to worry about memorizing, and it’s just there. 

Evan Brand: Yeah, yeah, good. So I just wanted to go back to the to the fatigue piece, because for certain people, there may be multiple layers of infections that are causing your fatigue. So for me it was H. pylori, and then once I got rid of the H pylori, then it was the parasites that were still causing me to be tired. And once I got rid of that, then I did have some Candida that I had to address. So what I want people to know is that if you double down or triple down on something, you know, the guy tells you it’s parasites, or the girl tells you it’s this, and you pursue that, and you’re not better, it’s possible that you’ve, you’ve missed something. And so I just want people to wrap their head around you, like you say, you have permission to have multiple things wrong at the same time. So you could have a bacterial issue, a parasite issue, a Candida problem, all at the same time. And so you got to make sure you get all the data if you just run a stool test. Candida rarely shows up on the stool test, you and I’ve talked about this many times. So the urine test will often fill in the blank. So if you had one test done, or your doctor ran this or that, and you feel like you’re missing something you probably are so keep, keep digging. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You also there’s one study here just looking at h pylori and mitochondrial function, I’ll put it up on my screen. But this is important, right? And the reason why it’s important, I’m going to just I’m going to do a share here. So if you guys are listening to the podcast on YouTube, you’ll be able to watch the video. If you’re on iTunes, you know, you have to just click the YouTube link, and you’ll be able to see what we’re talking about. If not, I’ll try to describe it pretty well. But you can see my screen you see my screen. 

Evan Brand: Yep. h pylori affects the mitochondrial function. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So this is important right here. So mitochondria are the powerhouse of the cells. This is really important and the powerhouse of your cell generates ATP for energy. Now, if you look here at the bottom they talked about, they wanted to investigate whether there’s an increased mutational load and mitochondrial genome and what they found was there believe that the there’s a downregulation in the mitochondrial DNA repair pathway? What does that mean? It means how your mitochondria are repaired and regenerated. It’s going to be down regulated, so you’re not going to be able to repair your your mitochondria as fast. It’s believed to be involved in mitochondrial base excision repair. Our results suggest that these genes A p one and y b one, just know that their DNA is that are involved in mitochondrial DNA repair. They’re they’re demonstrated to be involved and they’re demonstrated to be down regulated when there’s an H pylori infection. So it just means that your body’s ability to generate ATP which has decreased respiration coupled aptr. So you’re not able to generate as much ATP and repair your mitochondria as well when you have an H pylori infection. And this is something that we think is there with a lot of gut infections. It affects your mitochondria. Your ability to repair it, which then affects your ATP synthesis. 

Evan Brand: That is pretty crazy. I mean, especially if we’re talking about an athlete who wants to perform right you’ll have all these big celebrity personal trainers and stuff and they’ll just get people on different diet changes or no, you need to do this exercise or this exercise and they missed the boat. They don’t have a clue about H. pylori being the root cause of the of the fatigue or the exercise performance. So yeah, it’s just crazy. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And then also, there’s a lot of right here, right here one study, I’ve already looked at it before, if people are having gut issues, and they go to their conventional gastroenterologist, what are they typically prescribing? Well, a lot of times they’re prescribing antibiotics, right, and there’s a lot of data, bacterial Seidel, antibiotics induce mitochondrial dysfunction and oxidative damage. And so we know this is something that’s actually present, where there’s damage to the mitochondria with antibiotics. 

Evan Brand: Well, and and, and to be clear, for H pylori, it’s not just one antibiotic, it’s three or even four, they have what they call quadruple therapy now, which just the name of it scares me, it’s literally four antibiotics at the same time. And you and I have both seen patients that have had triple or quadruple therapy done and guess what we retest them, and unfortunately, due to antibiotic resistant bacteria, the infections are still there. So now we have to come in, repair all the mitochondria that were damaged, plus use herbs, which are much, much safer, and in my experience, just as if not more effective, and then we actually get rid of the bugs. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, she’s a summary of your mitochondria dysfunction and oxygen damage induced by bacterial Seidel antibiotics, which is interesting, because bacteria, all antibiotics are bacterial Seidel, so interesting. They use that description. It’s mammalian cells. I’m not sure which mammals they use. But they talked about that it’s alleviated by antioxidants. Well, guess what, when we use a lot of the clearing herbs that we use, guess what they’re rich in, I mean, tons of antioxidants, polyphenols. And that’s the benefit, a lot of the herbs that we use, they have a lot of antioxidants in them to help buffer the oxidative stress. Because remember, oxidative stress is part of what happens with the antibiotics. And we have a similar effect with herbs. But the herbs have a lot of antioxidants, which is helpful. Any comments on that? 

Evan Brand: Well, what you’re saying makes us look really good, because not only are we giving nutrients that can effectively get rid of the infections, but we’re also protecting the system or even replenishing antioxidants, because in general, and the oxidants are going to be reduced because of all the oxidative stress from the infection in the first place. So it’s literally like a win win, for us and for the person under the protocol. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep. And there’s lots of different studies here as well on probiotics and beneficial bacteria, correcting mitochondrial dysfunction with probiotics. There’s there’s definitely studies on this as well. And again, you know, these are things that we’ve seen in our practice, like when you see someone get better. So protection of hepatocyte mitochondrial function by blueberry juice probiotics. So there’s lots of studies on this, because when you see patients get better with certain beneficial bacteria, after you do an elimination, you’re like, why does that work? And so what happens is you see a clinical outcome, patient getting better when you do something. And then you’re like, Huh, what could the mechanism B and then you chase it down online? And you’re like, oh, maybe that’s it? You know, maybe it has to do with the fact that it’s helping the mitochondria and people’s feel better afterwards? Maybe that’s the mechanism. It’s possible, right? 

Evan Brand: Yeah. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We have to comment on that. 

Evan Brand: Well, it’s a lot of good things happening. And then you mentioned the probiotic piece. So that’s going to help even more. So after we get someone on a killing protocol, there’s going to be good benefits there, your energy is probably going to get better just based on doing that. And then when you go to the next phase, if we’re going to come into the gut healing phase, you’re going to get even better than so it’s it’s really fun for us to kind of paint the picture here of just how how is someone going up, up up up better, better, better? And you’ve just outlined how so pretty I talked about it right here. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: They talked about a collusion the studies show this is BP stands for blueberry juice and probiotic exhibit a synergistic effect preventing the development of a and that’s non alcoholic fatty liver disease by protecting mitochondrial function, suppressing the damage of mitochondrial ultrastructure by reducing mitochondrial swelling, right. So mitochondrial damage by antibiotics, as well as we could do the same thing when we search, let’s say pesticides, or heavy metals or mold toxins, so we know that gut plays a big role and one helping to absorb those nutrients. But number two, also helping to have beneficial bacteria that modulate these, this inflammation and mitochondrial damage as well. 

Evan Brand: Yeah, yeah. Well said. Excellent. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, it’s good that just a couple of studies. I mean, when we look at like we look at research a lot differently, so just kind of everyone there. We look at clinical outcomes in patients. And then we chase them back to what the literature says. The problem is a lot of people who are clinicians, they’ll look at the literature, and then they’ll try to then come up with a clinical like decision based on the literature. And that’s sometimes it’s really hard to do, because a lot of the PhDs and a lot of the research out there isn’t necessarily clinically driven, and maybe driven because someone has a PhD in this area. And they’re just they’re just studying that topic, because or maybe it’s an NIH funded study. Who knows, right? So we’re looking at things that are clinically driven, not research driven, because someone has decided to dedicate their life to this topic. And this is the study they’re choosing right? 

Evan Brand: Now. It’s good that we can kind of pull out some studies to help backup what we’re saying. But it’s not like we go into PubMed to try to figure out exactly what we’re going to do the clinical stuff is really that’s where all the magic happens. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And some may say we have a confirmation bias and how we look for these things. But we’re not looking for out of the blue we’re looking for, because we’ve seen clinical outcomes support something is happening in that direction. And then we use the data, the research to say what could be if positive things are happening in this direction? A to B, what could be the mechanism of why that is? And so we kind of chase it backwards. versus the other way around? 

Evan Brand: Yeah, yeah. And it’s just it’s a blast. It is fun for you to pull that stuff up. Right? Because, you know, we get we get used to our our methods, we get used to our results. But when you get to see in the literature like that antibiotics, causing mitochondrial damage is like, Oh, yeah, I forgot. That’s why we do this. It’s Yeah, we’re Exactly. We don’t want people to get damaged. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And you get confident when you see things repeat itself. Clinically, you’re like, Okay, something’s happening here. Now what? So you’re going at it with a lot more confidence versus like, Hey, I think maybe, you know, I’ve heard this, it’s a hearsay kind of thing. No, you’ve seen it, you’ve seen it clinically? Well, here’s the confidence.

Evan Brand: Here’s the thing that’s always fun for me is when we’re on the topic of fatigue and gut infections. And so when you have a case where you do the follow up, and someone is reporting that they have significantly more energy, and you didn’t give them any energy supplements, you just fix their gut, you just gave them some liver, maybe some enzyme support, some gallbladder support, and then you killed the infections and all the sudden, boom, I’m 20% more energetic. I always smile and laugh simultaneously. Because it’s like, This is so fun. We have 20% more energy. And we did zero energy supplements. That’s just super cool. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, it’s powerful. Now, if people start feeling a little bit worse, then we got to be very careful. So when people start feeling worse, I’m like, all right, we got to spend more time building up the adrenals, we got to make sure the diets clean, because if someone’s got his or, like, if you’re putting lots of bad foods in and you’re inflaming the gut, then your immune system and also your adrenals may be making more resources to deal with the inflammation in your gut. So we have to decrease the inflammation in our gut and support the adrenals by calming it down. Now, the adrenals have more resources. And of course, we always like supporting the adrenals ahead of time. So then you have natural, your more of your natural anti inflammatories, because conventional medicine when there’s serious gut issues, they’re going to give prednisone cortisol, well, let’s just support your body’s ability to make that naturally. And then when we go into a gut clearing phase, then we have more of those resources on board. And then patients are sensitive. I’m titrating the herbs in there slowly so we’re not overwhelming the system by killing more, you know bacterial toxins, LPs endotoxins, mycotoxins, we’re not overwhelming the lymphatic system that a toxification immune system. So we’re going to kind of really titrate things in a little bit slower if you’re more sensitive. And we may even add things like binders and glutathione too. 

Evan Brand: Yeah, yeah, the glutathione is good for me. I had to take a break from it for a little while. It was just too strong. It does mobilize toxins to so this is all case by case basis. But yeah, I love glutathione when it works. But when you take too much, that’s no good. There’s always a right dose. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, if you’re slow, if you’re like more sensitive, always start low, work your way up. And then if you’re sensitive, you can always start with just a gentle binder first, as long as you’re not getting constipated. That’s a good first step on increasing things. 

Evan Brand: Yeah, that’s great. So let’s see here. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Um, the other component, I would say is people that have got issues tend to also have immune issues. We already talked about why 80% of your immune systems in the Galt, that’s the gastric associated lymphoid tissue that’s in the stomach. And then also the model that’s the mucosal associated lymphoid tissue, lymphoid meaning like lymphocytes, white blood cells, and that’s in the small intestine. And so if you have a lot of gut permeability issues, if your guts over responding well, what’s the most common autoimmune condition that affects people and mostly women, five times more women is autoimmune thyroid. And so if you have an autoimmune thyroid, that could also be affecting your energy because you know your thyroid gland is being attacked and your body is ability to generate thyroid hormone may be decreased. And it’s possible that your conventional doctors overlook that. And so knowing that there’s an autoimmune thyroid could be affecting your energy too. And if you have an attack, you could feel hyper where you’re like anxious, can’t sleep irritable, sweating, right? first and then you go into a hypo where you’re like tired, fatigued, depressed, right? So you could easily be going hyper and hypo swings based on autoimmune tax of the thyroid. 

Evan Brand: Yeah, and once again, the hashimotos could be a side effect of something else. So even if you go to the endocrinologist, let’s say they were a more advanced endocrinologist, for example, hopefully they’re running thyroid antibodies TPO, TG maybe TSI. And they’re looking at that and maybe they’re treating your thyroid giving you desiccated glandulars, or nature thyroid, or just Synthroid or side ml. Even then you see how people can fall between the cracks and not get better. Because yeah, you’ve kind of cranked up the thyroid that was hypo due to autoimmunity. But you still never got to the gut infection that started at all.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: BINGO, BINGO, BINGO, BINGO 100%. That’s what we got to look at always the root cause. So anything else you wanted to talk about here on the gut and fatigue I did, we hit the thyroid, of course, I alluded to the adrenals earlier, because they play a huge role in regulating inflammation. And we know acute gut issues, they may be, they may be given a corticosteroid to calm down the gut inflammation, that’s possible too. So we want to support your body’s ability to do it naturally. I would also say supporting protein breakdown. So with maybe adding in free form amino acids, because protein can be very hard on the body to break down. So of course, dialing in enzymes and acids and maybe giving extra free form amino acids. So it’s taking stress off the digestive system to be able to access those amino acids as well. 

Evan Brand: I think I think you’ve hit it all. I mean, I would just say, kind of where do you go next is you really have to get the data. I mean, we’ve talked about a lot, right. But if you don’t have the data, you don’t know what you’re up against. You don’t know what you’re doing. So, you know, I think the best advice I could give is if you’re dealing with these issues, test, don’t guess. And so, you know, feel free to reach out to Dr. J. Justin at JustinHealth.com. And he can run labs on you anywhere in the world and send them to your door and jump on a call and discuss it make a great protocol to help you to get better. Same thing for me my website, EvanBrand.com. And we’re available we love helping you all we’re grateful to be in this position. So you know, sure you know a lot of you listening or kind of do it yourselfers. That’s what led you to be smart and find a podcast anyway. Because you want to kind of educate yourself, but there’s a certain point where it’s okay to reach out. And I tried to fix myself for a long time. And you spend more money and you spend more time doing that. So you know, feel free to reach out and get a guide.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% and then you’re available at EvanBrand.com worldwide. We’re available worldwide and we’re clinicians, we have our sleeves rolled up and we’re in the trenches every day, dealing with patients. Also, if you’re listening to this don’t just kind of glom on to one thing. So we see lots of people they’re like, they come in like Oh, I know what’s h pylori or I know it’s Candida or I know it SIBO keep an open mind on what’s happening because you have the right to have more than one issue going on at the same time. And for instance, Evans original story was Evan had not could have it wrong if you had h pylori, Giardia and crypto. That’s correct. Yeah, yeah, h pylori, giardia crypto, those are some serious infections. Any one of those infections is serious and could could have created the symptoms Evan was having yet he had all three at the same time. So if Evan was like, Oh, it’s only H. pylori, you know, he may have missed the fact that grd and crypto were involved too. So go into with an open mind and you have the right to have more than one infection happening at same time. Sad but true. But either way there are solutions to work on it and fix it. 

Evan Brand: I was tired. Man, I was tired. Now that was a that was a that was a level of exhaustion that just doesn’t even seem real. I mean, that’s how you know something’s wrong when you’re that tire. But you know, hopefully, with this education we’re providing people can reach out and work on this before it gets to that crisis level because it’s much easier to pull you out if you’re not that deep. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Now Evan can you go to your conventional medical doctor or a gastroenterologist and typically get these infections picked up on? 

Evan Brand: No, definitely not the testing is just so outdated, you know, it’s not sensitive, like the DNA stuff we’re using. So that’s the downside is if you go to the gastro doc down the road, say, Hey, I think I’ve got Giardia, I heard these two guys on the internet talk about it. They’ll probably just laugh in your face and say, Well, you didn’t travel to any third world countries. So you don’t have it. But if you if you really want to Sally, I’ll test you on they’ll run the outdated test and then everything comes back negative and then we’ll say see, I told you it was all in your head, just, you know, take an acid blocker. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So yes, my opinion is very similar. So the more acute you are, especially with typical gastrointestinal symptoms, the greater chance they’ll pick you up, especially if you came back from like Mexico or some kind of a country like Bali where infections are probable, right? But now what do you do? If your infections aren’t really gut based symptoms, they’re the fatigue or the brain fog, well, then how does that get picked up, you’re typically never going to get picked up for that you’re more than likely to, to get a psych referral for an antidepressant, right, then to get a gut test, and Evan already alluded to some of the technology they have isn’t going to be as up to par. So we have a little bit you know, more access to the DNA technology a little bit more sensitive. And then also like H. pylori testing that they may run a breath test, right? Urea breath test and look for elevated levels of co2, it’s possible, but that may miss an infection. And if it’s more subclinical, you may need a more sensitive test to pick it up. So if you’re listening, and you’re like, Hey, I’m gonna go to my MD that may not be the solution, I may not get you the answers you want. And if you don’t have the typical gut symptoms, diarrhea, bloating, gas, a lot of stomach discomfort, and irritability, you may not even they may not even want to run a test, because those symptoms don’t match with what they think the problem could be. 

Evan Brand: Yeah, yeah. And you know, it sounds like we’re like picking on him. Right? And we sort of are and that’s fine. I love picking on them, because they’re failing people. And it makes me sad. Because I was there I was sitting in the doctor’s office trying to get help. And I was told that I just needed an acid blocking medication. I told the doc, no, I feel better when I take it. enzymes that actually increased my stomach acid, I think you’re wrong. She said, That’s not possible. You’re gonna hurt yourself, you need to stop taking supplements stop all dietary supplement, the FDA, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And and that was it. And that’s when I signed off and said, No, I’m done. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and I do recommend, and I think you’re in the same way, I do recommend patients that have chronic issues, or acute issues, at least go see your conventional medical doctor just to get checked off that there’s nothing glaring that’s going on. And that that way, if you work for someone like myself, for you, and then they’ve kind of already been looked at, and they’ve kind of already know, okay, conventional medicine is kind of done all they can do. And, you know, functional medicine is the next best option at that point. 

Evan Brand: Yeah, I’m not saying we’re the all knowing at all, if you’re bleeding out of your butt, you need to go confirm you don’t have some type of a bleeding ulcer or colon cancer or you have some type of a polyp issue or diverticulitis and you need colon surgery. I mean, there are certain things that we can’t help with. But for these more functional, non pathological issues, we’re definitely going to be able to help. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And we can help with all those issues. Once they’re stable. If they’re unstable, though, conventional medicine does a really good job on stabilizing very sensitive issues. But once they’re stable, now what because for the most part, it’s going to be just symptom drug management for the rest of your life. Right? If you look at what they talked about, it’s, hey, we’re managing your gut issue versus let’s actually get to the root underlying issue. And sometimes management’s good when things are acute and flared. But now when they’re stable now what we want to go beyond just who wants to just manage their diarrhea for the rest of their life? That’s crazy, right? 

Evan Brand: Oh, God. Well, that happens every day, doesn’t it? It’s happening today while we’re doing this call somebody is in the doctor’s office right now about to get an antispasmodic drug for their diarrhea. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and that may be fine acutely, but then what’s next? So get your health issues under control from a you know, stable standpoint, and then work on the next step with a good functional medicine doctor. Well, everyone was excellent chatting with y’all anything you want to leave us with Evan? 

Evan Brand: No, that’s it. We’re just ranting at this point. So if you need help, please reach out. JustinHealth.com, EvanBrand.com. Take great care yourself. We’ll be back. Have a good one, y’all. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Take care. Bye now. 

Evan Brand: Bye.


References:

https://www.evanbrand.com/

https://justinhealth.com/

Audio Podcast:

https://justinhealth.libsyn.com/fatigue-tiredness-and-link-to-gut-infections-podcast-311

Activate the Parasympathetic Nervous System to Improve Recovery | Podcast #310

While often overlooked, the role of the nervous system in recovery is paramount. In this video, Dr. J and Jodi Cohen – a bestselling author, award-winning journalist, and founder of Vibrant Blue Oil. They highlight the key physical and mental/emotional factors that stress the nervous system, activate the parasympathetic nervous system for optimal recovery, and how it is connected to your vagus nerve, and how it can affect motility. 

We often hear meditation and massage are two potent techniques to help with physical recovery from exercise and lower the body’s mental stress response. Jodi here also introduce oils that are so stimulatory, most especially to your vagus nerve, which large divisions of this nerve extends to the digestive system. Also, the vagus nerve sends commands (when the body is not under stress)that slow heart and breathing rates and increases digestion. 

Check out this podcast and learn more on how you can apply this to your daily living!

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

In this episode, we cover:

0:18     Parasympathetic

3:54     Vibrant and Blue Oils

7:38     Clove and Lime

20:08    Nutrients that Support the Oils

23:02    “Essential Oils to Boost the Brain and Heal the Body”

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Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey guys, it’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani here really excited to have a awesome podcast guest today Jody Cohen is going to be talking about the parasympathetic summit, which is going to be all about how to promote parasympathetic nervous system, which is about helping your body heal and improve. Jody, welcome to the podcast.

Jodi Cohen: Oh, my God, so honored to be here. Thank you. And I feel like the timing is perfect. For people who don’t really know what parasympathetic is your nervous system, your autonomic nervous system, which controls your automatic functions like breathing, heart re digestion, immunity has kind of two gears, when your body thinks there’s danger and it has to survive, it presses the gas pedal, and kind of routes all of your blood flow and your oxygen to your arms and your legs so that you can either fight back or flee. And then the danger passes, and you hit the brakes, which is the parasympathetic, and everything returns to normal. And it’s kind of like cleaning up after the party, right? You can digest your food, blood flow routes back to your digestion. And what happens especially now when we’re so anxious, you know, anticipatory stress makes the body think it’s in danger, we kind of get stuck in the wrong gear. And so all of those maintenance cleanup health functions, kind of get put on the back burner. And if they stay on the back burner forever, your health kind of suffers.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: People talk about the parasympathetic nervous system, a lot of times that’s connected to the vagus nerve, correct?

Jodi Cohen: Yes, exactly. Your Vegas nerve is really the gearshift between that fight or flight, sympathetic state and the rest and digest parasympathetic state.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and the Vegas that that terminology means the wanderer, so it’s the nerve that goes from the brainstem and kind of wanders down and it hits all of the, the organs like you talked about a lot of digestive impacts regarding the parasympathetic because we need good HCl and enzyme so like to be able to get access to all of those nutrients. And to break all your proteins and fats and antioxidants down, we need good digestive support and getting into the parasympathetics helps that.

Jodi Cohen: Yeah, I could actually the Vegas nerve wanders through every organ of digestion. So it triggers your mouth to release saliva, which helps start to break down those proteins so that they’re better absorbed and your stomach releases hydrochloric acid, it helps the pancreas release digestive enzymes, the gallbladder release bile. And then the most important thing that people don’t know is it kind of helps with the motility wave. Think of it as kind of like, you know, the moving walkway that goes through your system and make sure that things don’t stay too long in your gut and cause like cebo, or, you know, IBS or any problems, you know, and also make sure that you don’t get constipated, so that things leave, so that when you’re kind of stuck in fight or flight sympathetic dominance, all you know that the moving walkway doesn’t go and that’s when problems occur.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So anyone listening to this right now, if you’re liking what you’re hearing, make sure you click down below, we’re gonna put a link for the parasympathetic summit right down below, so make sure you subscribe. I was part of that summit along with a 30 other-

Jodi Cohen: I know, I know. I can’t. Well, you know what it is I am anxious. And so I started really early. And so I had almost everything done a month before the deadline. And then wonderful people like you who I’ve loved and admired said Oh, can I get on? I’m like, oh my god. Yes.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s great. That’s Yeah, very cool. So I urge everyone listening to subscribe to get access to that awesome info. So you have a website vibrant and blue oils? Yeah, you use a lot of oils that kind of help people promote healing relaxation. Can you give me like a top three lists that you use to kind of get that parasympathetic nervous response activated? 

Jodi Cohen: Yeah. And I just want to back up the reason I found oils, um, I, my now ex has been attempted suicide and had to be hospitalized. And once I knew he was safe, and it wasn’t my job to keep him alive. I hit rock bottom, the kids were five and seven at the time, so it wasn’t super convenient to sleep all day. And I you know, I knew enough and it was my adrenals I kept trying to ingest remedies to help the adrenals and nothing was working. Um, a friend brought over oils, and I kind of made up a blend that I topically applied for the adrenals and it worked right away. And what I didn’t realize is chronic cortisol leads to inflammation of the gut. So my gut was so damaged, that nothing I was taking, like ingesting was really getting absorbed and assimilated. So that’s how I got into oils because I realized, oh, even if your gut is really messed up, you can still smell things you can still you know, we know that like nicotine patches or hormone creams go in through the skin. So that’s why I got started in oils. And then I started realizing because I’ve been in clinical practice. The blind spots, you know, if someone is deficient in vitamin D, that’s easy. You can supplement with vitamin B, if they’re stuck in parasympathetic or a second sympathetic, that was hard, you know, in a lot of the remedy is that, you know, you can teach people to breathe or meditate people, that’s hard. It’s not like an instant skill, you can say splash your face with freezing water, you know, which causes the blood flow to come to warm it up. People don’t like it either. It’s uncomfortable. They didn’t like gagging cells with a tongue depressor. But what I realized because the anatomy of the vagus nerve, as you said, it starts at the back of the head. And then it splits and whines around both sides. And it’s actually most accessible and the thickest, kind of right here. Like if you touch behind your earlobe, on your master bone. It’s like the width of a piano court there, you know, and it’s smaller and other places. So that’s why they actually do this kind of surgery, it’s a little bit like a pacemaker surgery. And they implant an electrical device here, and then a battery down below me, it’s pretty invasive. But you can use oils, oils are super stimulatory like clove, which has a million other benefits. And then lime has really small molecules, it’s kind of like, you know, when you combine colors, you can take blue and red, put them together and you get purple, which is different than you can add white and make it lavender. You know, you can combine oils, and it kind of draws the best from both of them. So I created this blend, parasympathetic, that’s clothing line. And what’s super cool is, you know, you might not be able to deep breathe, you might struggle with meditation and fall asleep, but you can dab a little thing right here, you can carry this in your purse, this is a really easy thing to comply with. And then you feel better. You’re like, Okay, I’m not constipated. Okay, my I don’t feel bloated. Okay, I feel a little bit like calmer and less anxious. You know, and, as you know, like the supplements that people know, help them, like they feel less tired. They’re really good at compliance. Once you figure out this is working for me, you’re all in.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And it’s a good replacement. For some people, they’re they’re already used to like reaching for a medication, well, let’s try something a little bit more natural. That’s going to have a good benefit. It’s not going to have the side effects. And it’s the least you know, good step to other healthy things. I imagine. Yes. What you’re doing oils, you’re probably now thinking about the food you’re eating and other Yes, your habits too. So it kind of creates an awareness, I imagine as well.

Jodi Cohen: Yeah, and definitely that cascade. Yeah. You know, it’s like crawl before you walk, walk before you run. Yeah. Once you’re like, Okay, I did that, like I used to in yoga. You know, sometimes these teachers would be so sneaky and suddenly you’re doing like a handstand or headstand. And you’re like, had no idea I could do that. What else can I do?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right? That’s awesome. Very cool. Yeah, you have that parasympathetic lead, I think you say clove and lime. Is that true?

Jodi Cohen: Yeah. Yeah. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I would think like, you’d have maybe like a lavender or something like that. I’m just curious what your –

Jodi Cohen: Well, you know, originally, no, no, and a lot of people that’s a great question. Originally, I was thinking like, Oh, it’s parasympathetic. It should be sedated. You know, when oils like lavender Kammen meal. No, we know that they’re all relaxing, you know, frankincense, even the resins? Yeah, um, but I realized that what it is, is you need to stimulate it. It’s kind of like, if you think about, you know, the old cars, we actually have to manually shift gears is to do something active and energizing to kind of change lanes. So this stimulates the vagus nerve, and in stimulating it, it’s like, oh, you know, I’m switching gears. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And you’re using that access point, with the nerves a little bit more superficial and more Yes, to get access to it.

Jodi Cohen: Exactly, exactly. And the other cool thing is, um, you know, there’s a researcher out of tufts Michael Vanek, or talks about the vagus nerve infection hypothesis. And basically, it’s this idea that the vagus nerve has such a broad depth and you know, it gets into your system everywhere. So any kind of small minor infection can basically the body can pick it up as you’re infected, and it goes into like cell danger response or sickness response. So you get tired so you don’t move chronic fatigue syndrome, you have pain so you don’t move fibromyalgia. A lot of these things can be traced to an infection in the Vegas nerve and the most likely one of the doctors on the summit, Marco Rubio, he did this extensive research where he was taking ultrasounds of people’s necks, and he was finding that often the Vegas nerve was infected there because, you know, we have all these toxins in our mouth that drain out and you know, and they’re exacerbated if you have like metal amalgams or any kind of cavitation you know, that has been compromised your root canal. So think about, you know, congestion point a bottleneck. You have toxins draining along the trigeminal nerve, they intersect with the Vegas nerve, you know, the neck has the structure of the limb, the blood vessels, the nerves, you know, any kind of compromise if you know as a chiropractor if things Aren’t flowing that can get congested. So the toxins accumulate here. clove actually has, it has this constituent called eugenol. And it’s been used in dentistry for years because it does two things. It numbs the pain and it actually helps to address the underlying toxins. So if there is a toxicity or an infection, that’s, you know, think of it like you’re on an airplane, right? If you’re in a row of seats, and you’re in the middle row, and the people on either side of you are not petite people, you’re not getting that armrest, you know, you’re really compressed and congested. So if the Vegas nerve is congested, it’s bumping into the vascular system, you’re not getting the blood flow, it’s bumping into the lymph, you’re not getting the drainage. So anything you can do and Dr. Russo actually walks you through step by step, how they started to, you know, topically apply remedies to cause less congestion in the lymph and all of a sudden the Vegas nerve. You can see it in the pictures. It’s kind of amazing. What kind of evidence was he doing his trials. He was using Christine sharpeners, he created their Sophia flow cream, which is a combination of essential oils and then other remedies. But what’s interesting is that most people don’t think about topically, you know, most people are kind of like have lymphie need to dry better shirt rebounder, you know that we don’t really have anything for that. But we do. It’s these topically applied remedies, we actually have a limp oil. It’s a lot of menten and things that kind of help open up vasculature and drainage. And she uses some oils in her product too. They’re both good, right? You know, it’s kinda like you get out there, right? Yeah, exactly. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: There’s a lot of ways you can skin a cat so to speak. Did you choose those oils? Was it your own clinical experience? Was it research that you saw? How did that? 

Jodi Cohen: Yeah, that’s a good question. So the reason I got into nutrition was my own squirmy kid. You know, my first kid was super easy. I just assumed I was this great. Mom had another 120 minutes later.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’ve seen that having two kids now I know exactly what you’re talking about.

Jodi Cohen: Yeah. And he was just wild, a wild child. Like I really thought, like, you know, like, you have the parenting baby proof people come to your house. And they’re like, and here’s this oven lock, because some kids climb in the oven, you know, and with my first one is like, no, no kid, kid climbs in the oven. Oh, number two, you just like that, that I had that kid that did those things. And a friend noticed that he was being really well behaved. And then another mom handed out like a Ritz cracker and he Jekyll Hyde. And she said, You know, my brother was on Ritalin his whole life. And it turns out, he was just allergic to weird foods, you should check that out. I thought, I’ve done everything else, I can certainly do that. And we took them to nutritionist. She said he’s really sensitive to corn, soy and dairy. So we changed his diet. And we had a different kid the next day. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. And I was like, how did I not know this? So I went back and got a degree in nutrition was trying to work with other screaming kids. And I mean, you know, like, if they can’t, if they’re wiggling all over it, it’s really hard to like, assess them. So I learned this technique called muscle testing, that’s a really good way to kind of ask the body questions, and it’s what I was doing in my practice to help identify what remedies were good for kids. And so when I first got introduced to oils, I was really, I have never been at this kind of rock bottom, like just so mentally and physically exhausted, like literally getting up to do anything felt like a strain. So, you know, someone gave me this box, and I’m so drained, I’m like, all right, I can muscle test. So basically, it’s intuition I muscle test I, every we have a blueprint in the body, right? There’s a blueprint for what healthy adrenal tissue is supposed to look like. And sometimes you do things and you don’t really realize that’s what you’re doing. That’s what I’ve been doing my practice the whole time is kind of identifying what organisms stress, and then using supplements to help return that organ to balance so it would function well. And so that was kind of the lens that I was looking through when I was making these formulas. So I was like, Alright, what what combination, you know, we humans have a blueprint. And plants also have blueprints. And humans and plants are bio familiar. So we share similar blueprints. So kind of like you can combine different colors to you know, match a picture in a landscape, you can combine different oils to match the blueprint of a healthy organ. So I was using intuition to come up with the formulation, you know, for a start, kind of identify this needs to be in it. And then I would play with what you know, 10% of this 20% of this, the different variables and then I have a team of people that kind of help me test it, and they test and then they can kind of mentally say like you We increase, you know, the Roman kameel from, you know, 12% to 13. So we’re just constantly refining and tweaking it. And then I go and I research, you know, okay, why? Why does balsam of Peru, which is a resin that’s drawn from these plants in you know, the Amazon in Peru and Brazil seem to help with sleep? What chemical constituents are present in this plant? Why is it working? And I would every single time be like, Oh, that makes complete sense. Why this is helping. And so that’s, that’s my process. It’s a little bit nutty, but it always seems to work.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting. And you know, I also, I’m just curious, though, with your son, what were the oils that really helped because one thing I like about oils with kids, is some kids don’t want to swallow stuff. And they may be something in reverse, right? So it’s hard to get them to do stuff. So you can kind of covertly put some on your fingers rub their behind their ears and kind of get it in their bloodstream. So I like that what oils that you found were the best on on Macs. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey guys, it’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani here really excited to have a awesome podcast guest today Jody Cohen is going to be talking about the parasympathetic summit, which is going to be all about how to promote parasympathetic nervous system, which is about helping your body heal and improve. Jody, welcome to the podcast.

Jodi Cohen: Oh, my God, so honored to be here. Thank you. And I feel like the timing is perfect. For people who don’t really know what parasympathetic is your nervous system, your autonomic nervous system, which controls your automatic functions like breathing, heart re digestion, immunity has kind of two gears, when your body thinks there’s danger and it has to survive, it presses the gas pedal, and kind of routes all of your blood flow and your oxygen to your arms and your legs so that you can either fight back or flee. And then the danger passes, and you hit the brakes, which is the parasympathetic, and everything returns to normal. And it’s kind of like cleaning up after the party, right? You can digest your food, blood flow routes back to your digestion. And what happens especially now when we’re so anxious, you know, anticipatory stress makes the body think it’s in danger, we kind of get stuck in the wrong gear. And so all of those maintenance cleanup health functions, kind of get put on the back burner. And if they stay on the back burner forever, your health kind of suffers.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: People talk about the parasympathetic nervous system, a lot of times that’s connected to the vagus nerve, correct?

Jodi Cohen: Yes, exactly. Your Vegas nerve is really the gearshift between that fight or flight, sympathetic state and the rest and digest parasympathetic state.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and the Vegas that that terminology means the wanderer, so it’s the nerve that goes from the brainstem and kind of wanders down and it hits all of the, the organs like you talked about a lot of digestive impacts regarding the parasympathetic because we need good HCl and enzyme so like to be able to get access to all of those nutrients. And to break all your proteins and fats and antioxidants down, we need good digestive support and getting into the parasympathetics helps that.

Jodi Cohen: Yeah, I could actually the Vegas nerve wanders through every organ of digestion. So it triggers your mouth to release saliva, which helps start to break down those proteins so that they’re better absorbed and your stomach releases hydrochloric acid, it helps the pancreas release digestive enzymes, the gallbladder release bile. And then the most important thing that people don’t know is it kind of helps with the motility wave. Think of it as kind of like, you know, the moving walkway that goes through your system and make sure that things don’t stay too long in your gut and cause like cebo, or, you know, IBS or any problems, you know, and also make sure that you don’t get constipated, so that things leave, so that when you’re kind of stuck in fight or flight sympathetic dominance, all you know that the moving walkway doesn’t go and that’s when problems occur.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So anyone listening to this right now, if you’re liking what you’re hearing, make sure you click down below, we’re gonna put a link for the parasympathetic summit right down below, so make sure you subscribe. I was part of that summit along with a 30 other-

Jodi Cohen: I know, I know. I can’t. Well, you know what it is I am anxious. And so I started really early. And so I had almost everything done a month before the deadline. And then wonderful people like you who I’ve loved and admired said Oh, can I get on? I’m like, oh my god. Yes.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s great. That’s Yeah, very cool. So I urge everyone listening to subscribe to get access to that awesome info. So you have a website vibrant and blue oils? Yeah, you use a lot of oils that kind of help people promote healing relaxation. Can you give me like a top three lists that you use to kind of get that parasympathetic nervous response activated? 

Jodi Cohen: Yeah. And I just want to back up the reason I found oils, um, I, my now ex has been attempted suicide and had to be hospitalized. And once I knew he was safe, and it wasn’t my job to keep him alive. I hit rock bottom, the kids were five and seven at the time, so it wasn’t super convenient to sleep all day. And I you know, I knew enough and it was my adrenals I kept trying to ingest remedies to help the adrenals and nothing was working. Um, a friend brought over oils, and I kind of made up a blend that I topically applied for the adrenals and it worked right away. And what I didn’t realize is chronic cortisol leads to inflammation of the gut. So my gut was so damaged, that nothing I was taking, like ingesting was really getting absorbed and assimilated. So that’s how I got into oils because I realized, oh, even if your gut is really messed up, you can still smell things you can still you know, we know that like nicotine patches or hormone creams go in through the skin. So that’s why I got started in oils. And then I started realizing because I’ve been in clinical practice The blind spots, you know, if someone’s deficient in vitamin D, that’s easy. You can supplement with vitamin B, if they’re stuck in parasympathetic or a second sympathetic, that was hard, you know, in a lot of the remedy is that, you know, you can teach people to breathe or meditate people, that’s hard. It’s not like an instant skill, you can say splash your face with freezing water, you know, which causes the blood flow to come to warm it up. People don’t like it either. It’s uncomfortable. They didn’t like gagging cells with a tongue depressor. But what I realized because the anatomy of the vagus nerve, as you said, it starts at the back of the head. And then it splits and whines around both sides. And it’s actually most accessible and the thickest, kind of right here. Like if you touch behind your earlobe, on your master bone. It’s like the width of a piano court there, you know, and it’s smaller and other places. So that’s why they actually do this kind of surgery, it’s a little bit like a pacemaker surgery. And they implant an electrical device here, and then a battery down below me, it’s pretty invasive. But you can use oils, oils are super stimulatory like clove, which has a million other benefits. And then lime has really small molecules, it’s kind of like, you know, when you combine colors, you can take blue and red, put them together and you get purple, which is different than you can add white and make it lavender. You know, you can combine oils, and it kind of draws the best from both of them. So I created this blend, parasympathetic, that’s clothing line. And what’s super cool is, you know, you might not be able to deep breathe, you might struggle with meditation and fall asleep, but you can dab a little thing right here, you can carry this in your purse, this is a really easy thing to comply with. And then you feel better. You’re like, Okay, I’m not constipated. Okay, my I don’t feel bloated. Okay, I feel a little bit like calmer and less anxious. You know, and, as you know, like the supplements that people know, help them, like they feel less tired. They’re really good at compliance. Once you figure out this is working for me, you’re all in.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And it’s a good replacement. For some people, they’re they’re already used to like reaching for a medication, well, let’s try something a little bit more natural. That’s going to have a good benefit. It’s not going to have the side effects. And it’s the least you know, good step to other healthy things. I imagine. Yes. What you’re doing oils, you’re probably now thinking about the food you’re eating and other Yes, your habits too. So it kind of creates an awareness, I imagine as well.

Jodi Cohen: Yeah, and definitely that cascade. Yeah. You know, it’s like crawl before you walk, walk before you run. Yeah. Once you’re like, Okay, I did that, like I used to in yoga. You know, sometimes these teachers would be so sneaky and suddenly you’re doing like a handstand or headstand. And you’re like, had no idea I could do that. What else can I do?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right? That’s awesome. Very cool. Yeah, you have that parasympathetic lead, I think you say clove and lime. Is that true.

Jodi Cohen: Yeah. Yeah. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I would think like, you’d have maybe like a lavender or something like that. I’m just curious what your –

Jodi Cohen: Well, you know, originally, no, no, and a lot of people that’s a great question. Originally, I was thinking like, Oh, it’s parasympathetic. It should be sedated. You know, when oils like lavender Kammen meal. No, we know that they’re all relaxing, you know, frankincense, even the resins? Yeah, um, but I realized that what it is, is you need to stimulate it. It’s kind of like, if you think about, you know, the old cars, we actually have to manually shift gears is to do something active and energizing to kind of change lanes. So this stimulates the vagus nerve, and in stimulating it, it’s like, oh, you know, I’m switching gears. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And you’re using that access point, with the nerves a little bit more superficial and more Yes, to get access to it.

Jodi Cohen: Exactly, exactly. And the other cool thing is, um, you know, there’s a researcher out of tufts Michael Vanek, or talks about the vagus nerve infection hypothesis. And basically, it’s this idea that the vagus nerve has such a broad depth and you know, it gets into your system everywhere. So any kind of small minor infection can basically the body can pick it up as you’re infected, and it goes into like cell danger response or sickness response. So you get tired so you don’t move chronic fatigue syndrome, you have pain so you don’t move fibromyalgia. A lot of these things can be traced to an infection in the Vegas nerve and the most likely one of the doctors on the summit, Marco Rubio, he did this extensive research where he was taking ultrasounds of people’s necks, and he was finding that often the Vegas nerve was infected there because, you know, we have all these toxins in our mouth that drain out and you know, and they’re exacerbated if you have like metal amalgams or any kind of cavitation you know, that has been compromised your root canal. So think about, you know, congestion point a bottleneck. You have toxins draining along the trigeminal nerve, they intersect with the Vegas nerve, you know, the neck has the structure of the limb, the blood vessels, the nerves, you know, any kind of compromise if you know as a chiropractor if things Aren’t flowing that can get congested. So the toxins accumulate here. clove actually has, it has this constituent called eugenol. And it’s been used in dentistry for years because it does two things. It numbs the pain and it actually helps to address the underlying toxins. So if there is a toxicity or an infection, that’s, you know, think of it like you’re on an airplane, right? If you’re in a row of seats, and you’re in the middle row, and the people on either side of you are not petite people, you’re not getting that armrest, you know, you’re really compressed and congested. So if the Vegas nerve is congested, it’s bumping into the vascular system, you’re not getting the blood flow, it’s bumping into the lymph, you’re not getting the drainage. So anything you can do and Dr. Russo actually walks you through step by step, how they started to, you know, topically apply remedies to cause less congestion in the lymph and all of a sudden the Vegas nerve. You can see it in the pictures. It’s kind of amazing. What kind of evidence was he doing his trials. He was using Christine sharpeners, he created their Sophia flow cream, which is a combination of essential oils and then other remedies. But what’s interesting is that most people don’t think about topically, you know, most people are kind of like have lymphie need to dry better shirt rebounder, you know that we don’t really have anything for that. But we do. It’s these topically applied remedies, we actually have a limp oil. It’s a lot of menten and things that kind of help open up vasculature and drainage. And she uses some oils in her product too. They’re both good, right? You know, it’s kinda like you get out there, right? Yeah, exactly. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: There’s a lot of ways you can skin a cat so to speak. Did you choose those oils? Was it your own clinical experience? Was it research that you saw? How did that? 

Jodi Cohen: Yeah, that’s a good question. So the reason I got into nutrition was my own squirmy kid. You know, my first kid was super easy. I just assumed I was this great. Mom had another 120 minutes later.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’ve seen that having two kids now I know exactly what you’re talking about.

Jodi Cohen: Yeah. And he was just wild, a wild child. Like I really thought, like, you know, like, you have the parenting baby proof people come to your house. And they’re like, and here’s this oven lock, because some kids climb in the oven, you know, and with my first one is like, no, no kid, kid climbs in the oven. Oh, number two, you just like that, that I had that kid that did those things. And a friend noticed that he was being really well behaved. And then another mom handed out like a Ritz cracker and he Jekyll Hyde. And she said, You know, my brother was on Ritalin his whole life. And it turns out, he was just allergic to weird foods, you should check that out. I thought, I’ve done everything else, I can certainly do that. And we took them to nutritionist. She said he’s really sensitive to corn, soy and dairy. So we changed his diet. And we had a different kid the next day. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. And I was like, how did I not know this? So I went back and got a degree in nutrition was trying to work with other screaming kids. And I mean, you know, like, if they can’t, if they’re wiggling all over it, it’s really hard to like, assess them. So I learned this technique called muscle testing, that’s a really good way to kind of ask the body questions, and it’s what I was doing in my practice to help identify what remedies were good for kids. And so when I first got introduced to oils, I was really, I have never been at this kind of rock bottom, like just so mentally and physically exhausted, like literally getting up to do anything felt like a strain. So, you know, someone gave me this box, and I’m so drained, I’m like, all right, I can muscle test. So basically, it’s intuition I muscle test I, every we have a blueprint in the body, right? There’s a blueprint for what healthy adrenal tissue is supposed to look like. And sometimes you do things and you don’t really realize that’s what you’re doing. That’s what I’ve been doing my practice the whole time is kind of identifying what organisms stress, and then using supplements to help return that organ to balance so it would function well. And so that was kind of the lens that I was looking through when I was making these formulas. So I was like, Alright, what what combination, you know, we humans have a blueprint. And plants also have blueprints. And humans and plants are bio familiar. So we share similar blueprints. So kind of like you can combine different colors to you know, match a picture in a landscape, you can combine different oils to match the blueprint of a healthy organ. So I was using intuition to come up with the formulation, you know, for a start, kind of identify this needs to be in it. And then I would play with what you know, 10% of this 20% of this, the different variables and then I have a team of people that kind of help me test it, and they test and then they can kind of mentally say like you We increase, you know, the Roman kameel from, you know, 12% to 13. So we’re just constantly refining and tweaking it. And then I go and I research, you know, okay, why? Why does balsam of Peru, which is a resin that’s drawn from these plants in you know, the Amazon in Peru and Brazil seem to help with sleep? What chemical constituents are present in this plant? Why is it working? And I would every single time be like, Oh, that makes complete sense. Why this is helping. And so that’s, that’s my process. It’s a little bit nutty, but it always seems to work.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting. And you know, I also, I’m just curious, though, with your son, what were the oils that really helped because one thing I like about oils with kids, is some kids don’t want to swallow stuff. And they may be something in reverse, right? So it’s hard to get them to do stuff. So you can kind of covertly put some on your fingers rub their behind their ears and kind of get it in their bloodstream. So I like that what oils that you found were the best on on Macs. 

Jodi Cohen: Yeah, so I definitely use parasympathetic. But you know, kids are so intuitive. Like, I think as we get older, we forget or we feel uncomfortable that you know, when the phone’s ringing, we somehow know it’s going to be our mother or, you know, we lose track of that. So with kids, I always kind of do a smell bar and I let them pick whatever they like best he loved orange. And orange is, you know, all of the citrus blends are really calming. And they also help with focus. And you know, a lot of them that are expensive, like Neroli and bergama. You know, those are kind of touted, but orange is super affordable, and kids love it. So he would like to smell that we’d have him do that before he did homework. You know, I give him a little foot rub before bed. But that was just I just let him pick it That was his favorite. But the ones that helped him the most. Definitely parasympathetic adrenal, because he’d get really wire you know, he was like a firecracker. He was always on. So just helping him to calm down. And then sometimes like liver because he, you know, he he inherited my ashkenazic liver, which is, you know, I think the reason that a lot of the traditional Jewish foods are like beets, borscht, chopped liver, you know, we eat all of the foods that we need so that our liver actually works because I think we have a little bit of a genetic detriment-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: When you use that adrenal and liver, what would those oils be to support those organs? 

Jodi Cohen: Yeah, I have it all listed out on my site. But and actually in the I have a book coming out in March of 2016, that I’m going to share the recipes because with COVID It breaks my heart, you know, you really can’t get anything into Australia these days. And it’s super hard to get things to Europe and I and India and I have these people that are like I think my, my poor husband could really benefit and I’m like, Oh my gosh, I’m just going to give out the recipe. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s March 2021. Right? 

Jodi Cohen: March 2021, March 16. It’s an essential oils to boost the brain and heal the body. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Awesome. That’s great. So what else can people do? We talked about parasympathetics. Right. We know the adrenal plays a major role and different things. Obviously, food nutrition can help with that. What are some things clinically they use? Yeah, clients or on the oil side that you see adrenals.

Jodi Cohen: So Titus, two, who’s a colleague and a functional neurologist, which means that he is looking at what part of the brain You know, it was cute. At one point, I took my son to a functional neurologist, and he had all these little personality things that I thought were him, you know, like he couldn’t walk a straight line to save his life. He would like what diagonal Walker, he would always spill stuff on himself, he had no spatial awareness. And it turns out, his left brain was much more dominant than his right hemisphere of the brain. So we have Dr. Robert millio, who really talks about using oils to kind of balance the hemispheres. And to kind of a quick parasympathetic trick Titus two talks about how anxiety and panic attacks is over activation of your right frontal lobe. And so to kind of calm and balance that you then activate the left frontal lobe, and that puts the two hemispheres in balance. And functional neurologists use essential oils a lot in their practice, because your your nose, your olfactory nerve, you know, number one goes directly to you know, sometimes in the body, the right brain controls the left body, your olfactory channels go directly to this frontal part. Yeah, exactly. So you can just smell something, you know, it can be anything you like, it can be lavender, it can be orange, it can be parasympathetic, you know, you can actually like dry breathing, plug one nostril, smell through the left nostril, that activates the left frontal lobe balances the brain, you feel less anxious. I anxiety is my thing. My daughter’s thing too. I have panic attacks, I have all these things and that always helps you I basically, even if I’m walking my dog, this is in my pocket in case I need it. So that is my favorite quick fix. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: What about high levels of cortisol? Obviously, high levels of cortisol can cause anxiety, right? So you mentioned maybe that plays a big role. Anything you do to help with the high adrenaline or high cortisol state? Yeah, add any like nutrients in to kind of be supportive to those oils. 

Jodi Cohen: I mean, there are tons of nutrients that are helpful. And you know, if you’re able to digest like, there are a lot of adaptogenic herbs that I love, like ashwagandha rhodiola. But one thing that I’ve, I think that oils work like adaptogenic herbs, like one of the things, you know, I’ve done those 24 hour cortisol tests where you’re spitting in the tube. And what I found is that it’s not flatline. It’s not like my cortisol level is either too high all the time or too low all the time. You know, it’s too high at night when I’m trying to go to sleep and too low in the morning when I need energy. Exactly, exactly. Yeah. And you know, if you think about the nutrients that you can take the supplements, you kind of have to turn it right. You know, like, if you’re already too high, and you’re taking something that makes it higher, that’s not going to be such a positive experience. So with oils, we have two blends. One is the adrenal blend that just kind of evens you out. If you’re too high, it takes it down or too low brings you up, and then one for the hypothalamus. And this is something that most people don’t talk about, they just assume that all cortisol is related to the adrenals, not realizing that it’s a bit of a cascade, the hypothalamus, pituitary axis, your hypothalamus in your brain controls all your endocrine organs, it’s constantly reading the environment and signals in your body to figure out how do we return it to balance you know, like, when you’re driving, at one point, you might be a little too far to the left. So you just course correct, your hypothalamus is your course corrector. And it does that by sending chemical messages to kind of the COO, the one who executes your pituitary gland, which then sends message to your thyroid, your adrenals, all of your endocrine organs. So sometimes it’s called this negative feedback loop, the hypothalamus sends these messages out, then messages come back. And it kind of course, corrects, like, oh, we’re good on cortisol, we don’t need more. And if the, you know, the hypothalamus is kind of overwhelmed, you know, like, my friend likes to say you can’t move along when the house is on fire, you know, if there’s so much going on, it can be like your phone, and it just doesn’t get the right information and send things out. So we have a blend, it’s hard to get things into the brain. I mean, that’s the biggest challenge. And the biggest Aha, with oils, they’re super small and fat soluble. So they cross the blood brain barrier. So we have one, it contains pine, which has a lot of research on it, but you just put it right here. And it’s almost like it sends the right frequency, the right blueprint, whatever you want to call it, to return the hypothalamus to balance so that it’s then sending better messages to the adrenal so that you’re not so hyper cortisol or hyper cortisol.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s good. Excellent. Yeah. So you got your book coming out this March 16 2021, what’s the book gonna be called?

Jodi Cohen: It’s called “Essential Oils to Boost the Brain and Heal the Body.” And you can grab it on Amazon presale, Amazon pre sells anything, you know, you basically they match the best price ever. So if you if you’re a bargain shopper, and we’re actually going to have a gift card so that you can add a stocking stuffers so that if you want to buy the book, you know, we’ll send you a little coupon that you can put into the stocking with like a deal on getting an oil like parasympathetic to go with it. It’s great.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and your favorite so far as what parasympathetic. 

Jodi Cohen: I love parasympathetic. And honestly, with everything that’s going on, we have a blend called circulation that has a lot of Cyprus, I’ve found and a lot of clinicians have found like, if you’re concerned about getting sick, Cyprus does a really wonderful job of kind of protecting the lung lining. So, you know, they talk about this current concern, it kind of happens in two phases, right? It either gets into the lungs and the lungs lining a solid and it doesn’t go any further and it was a minor cold, or it gets into your system and causes a cytokine storm. So you kind of want to make sure that that bouncer at the gate of your lungs is really working well. And so the circulation oil, I just put over my lungs and also helps if I need to, I’m on deadline and I have to get something done. I put a little bit at the base of my skull, because that improves oxygen flow in the blood and when you have more blood and more oxygen flow, it’s easier to focus. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love that. That’s awesome. Very cool. Well, any other clinical pearls so we have the parasympathetic summit, um, in that but other great speakers 50 Plus you said we’ll put the link down below so if you guys are loving it, click down below make sure you register. We also got the link for Jodi’s website, vibrantblueoils.com those are gonna be there for you as well. March 16 2021, we’ll get the book up there pre presale Amazon like anything else. Go you know, listen to the show. Listen with?

Jodi Cohen: You know what’s funny? Like we’re about to come into Thanksgiving, holiday gratitude. And the fastest way that you can shift yourself into parasympathetic is mindset and gratitude. So if you’re worried about what’s going on in the world, just focus on what you’re grateful for. It could be something as simple as the ability to move your body and to take a breath and to have you know, it’s a gorgeous day here in Seattle to have a sunny sky, you know? Yep. So, you know, I guess I would just like to leave on that. Note that how you choose to experience the world is in your control, and you can always be grateful for things.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I like it. Yeah. When you need the world to kind of conform to the things that you want, then you tend to be like, let down yeah. When you can basically put your focus on the things that you want to appreciate, right? Yeah, in the driver’s seat. So like, that’s definitely an empowering. 

Jodi Cohen: Yes. Yes. You always get to be you always are in control of how you feel and how you think. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, thanks so much, Jody, head over to vibrantblueoils.com, parasympathetic summit links down below. Hope you guys enjoyed today’s podcast. Have a good one. Jodi, great chatting with you.

Jodi Cohen: Yeah, so I definitely use parasympathetic. But you know, kids are so intuitive. Like, I think as we get older, we forget or we feel uncomfortable that you know, when the phone’s ringing, we somehow know it’s going to be our mother or, you know, we lose track of that. So with kids, I always kind of do a smell bar and I let them pick whatever they like best he loved orange. And orange is, you know, all of the citrus blends are really calming. And they also help with focus. And you know, a lot of them that are expensive, like Neroli and bergama. You know, those are kind of touted, but orange is super affordable, and kids love it. So he would like to smell that we’d have him do that before he did homework. You know, I give him a little foot rub before bed. But that was just I just let him pick it That was his favorite. But the ones that helped him the most. Definitely parasympathetic adrenal, because he’d get really wire you know, he was like a firecracker. He was always on. So just helping him to calm down. And then sometimes like liver because he, you know, he he inherited my ashkenazic liver, which is, you know, I think the reason that a lot of the traditional Jewish foods are like beets, borscht, chopped liver, you know, we eat all of the foods that we need so that our liver actually works because I think we have a little bit of a genetic detriment-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: When you use that adrenal and liver, what would those oils be to support those organs? 

Jodi Cohen: Yeah, I have it all listed out on my site. But and actually in the I have a book coming out in March of 2016, that I’m going to share the recipes because with COVID It breaks my heart, you know, you really can’t get anything into Australia these days. And it’s super hard to get things to Europe and I and India and I have these people that are like I think my, my poor husband could really benefit and I’m like, Oh my gosh, I’m just going to give out the recipe. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s March 2021. Right? 

Jodi Cohen: March 2021, March 16. It’s an essential oils to boost the brain and heal the body. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Awesome. That’s great. So what else can people do? We talked about parasympathetics. Right. We know the adrenal is play a major role and different things. Obviously, food nutrition can help with that. What are some things clinically they use? Yeah, clients or on the oil side that you see adrenals.

Jodi Cohen: So Titus, two, who’s a colleague and a functional neurologist, which means that he is looking at what part of the brain You know, it was cute. At one point, I took my son to a functional neurologist, and he had all these little personality things that I thought were him, you know, like he couldn’t walk a straight line to save his life. He would like what diagonal Walker, he would always spill stuff on himself, he had no spatial awareness. And it turns out, his left brain was much more dominant than his right hemisphere of the brain. So we have Dr. Robert millio, who really talks about using oils to kind of balance the hemispheres. And to kind of a quick parasympathetic trick Titus two talks about how anxiety and panic attacks is over activation of your right frontal lobe. And so to kind of calm and balance that you then activate the left frontal lobe, and that puts the two hemispheres in balance. And functional neurologists use essential oils a lot in their practice, because your your nose, your olfactory nerve, you know, number one goes directly to you know, sometimes in the body, the right brain controls the left body, your olfactory channels go directly to this frontal part. Yeah, exactly. So you can just smell something, you know, it can be anything you like, it can be lavender, it can be orange, it can be parasympathetic, you know, you can actually like dry breathing, plug one nostril, smell through the left nostril, that activates the left frontal lobe balances the brain, you feel less anxious. I anxiety is my thing. My daughter’s thing too. I have panic attacks, I have all these things and that always helps you I basically, even if I’m walking my dog, this is in my pocket in case I need it. So that is my favorite quick fix. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: What about high levels of cortisol? Obviously, high levels of cortisol can cause anxiety, right? So you mentioned maybe that plays a big role. Anything you do to help with the high adrenaline or high cortisol state? Yeah, add any like nutrients in to kind of be supportive to those oils. 

Jodi Cohen: I mean, there are tons of nutrients that are helpful. And you know, if you’re able to digest like, there are a lot of adaptogenic herbs that I love, like ashwagandha rhodiola. But one thing that I’ve, I think that oils work like adaptogenic herbs, like one of the things, you know, I’ve done those 24 hour cortisol tests where you’re spitting in the tube. And what I found is that it’s not flatline. It’s not like my cortisol level is either too high all the time or too low all the time. You know, it’s too high at night when I’m trying to go to sleep and too low in the morning when I need energy. Exactly, exactly. Yeah. And you know, if you think about the nutrients that you can take the supplements, you kind of have to turn it right. You know, like, if you’re already too high, and you’re taking something that makes it higher, that’s not going to be such a positive experience. So with oils, we have two blends. One is the adrenal blend that just kind of evens you out. If you’re too high, it takes it down or too low brings you up, and then one for the hypothalamus. And this is something that most people don’t talk about, they just assume that all cortisol is related to the adrenals, not realizing that it’s a bit of a cascade, the hypothalamus, pituitary axis, your hypothalamus in your brain controls all your endocrine organs, it’s constantly reading the environment and signals in your body to figure out how do we return it to balance you know, like, when you’re driving, at one point, you might be a little too far to the left. So you just course correct, your hypothalamus is your course corrector. And it does that by sending chemical messages to kind of the COO, the one who executes your pituitary gland, which then sends message to your thyroid, your adrenals, all of your endocrine organs. So sometimes it’s called this negative feedback loop, the hypothalamus sends these messages out, then messages come back. And it kind of course, corrects, like, oh, we’re good on cortisol, we don’t need more. And if the, you know, the hypothalamus is kind of overwhelmed, you know, like, my friend likes to say you can’t move along when the house is on fire, you know, if there’s so much going on, it can be like your phone, and it just doesn’t get the right information and send things out. So we have a blend, it’s hard to get things into the brain. I mean, that’s the biggest challenge. And the biggest Aha, with oils, they’re super small and fat soluble. So they cross the blood brain barrier. So we have one, it contains pine, which has a lot of research on it, but you just put it right here. And it’s almost like it sends the right frequency, the right blueprint, whatever you want to call it, to return the hypothalamus to balance so that it’s then sending better messages to the adrenal so that you’re not so hyper cortisol or hyper cortisol.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s good. Excellent. Yeah. So you got your book coming out this March 16 2021, what’s the book gonna be called?

Jodi Cohen: It’s called “Essential Oils to Boost the Brain and Heal the Body.” And you can grab it on Amazon presale, Amazon pre sells anything, you know, you basically they match the best price ever. So if you if you’re a bargain shopper, and we’re actually going to have a gift card so that you can add a stocking stuffers so that if you want to buy the book, you know, we’ll send you a little coupon that you can put into the stocking with like a deal on getting an oil like parasympathetic to go with it. It’s great.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and your favorite so far as what parasympathetic. 

Jodi Cohen: I love parasympathetic. And honestly, with everything that’s going on, we have a blend called circulation that has a lot of Cyprus, I’ve found and a lot of clinicians have found like, if you’re concerned about getting sick, Cyprus does a really wonderful job of kind of protecting the lung lining. So, you know, they talk about this current concern, it kind of happens in two phases, right? It either gets into the lungs and the lungs lining a solid and it doesn’t go any further and it was a minor cold, or it gets into your system and causes a cytokine storm. So you kind of want to make sure that that bouncer at the gate of your lungs is really working well. And so the circulation oil, I just put over my lungs and also helps if I need to, I’m on deadline and I have to get something done. I put a little bit at the base of my skull, because that improves oxygen flow in the blood and when you have more blood and more oxygen flow, it’s easier to focus. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love that. That’s awesome. Very cool. Well, any other clinical pearls so we have the parasympathetic summit, um, in that but other great speakers 50 Plus you said we’ll put the link down below so if you guys are loving it, click down below make sure you register. We also got the link for Jodi’s website, vibrantblueoils.com those are gonna be there for you as well. March 16 2021, we’ll get the book up there pre presale Amazon like anything else. Go you know, listen to the show. Listen with?

Jodi Cohen: You know what’s funny? Like we’re about to come into Thanksgiving, holiday gratitude. And the fastest way that you can shift yourself into parasympathetic is mindset and gratitude. So if you’re worried about what’s going on in the world, just focus on what you’re grateful for. It could be something as simple as the ability to move your body and to take a breath and to have you know, it’s a gorgeous day here in Seattle to have a sunny sky, you know? Yep. So, you know, I guess I would just like to leave on that. Note that how you choose to experience the world is in your control, and you can always be grateful for things.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I like it. Yeah. When you need the world to kind of conform to the things that you want, then you tend to be like, let down yeah. When you can basically put your focus on the things that you want to appreciate, right? Yeah, in the driver’s seat. So like, that’s definitely an empowering. 

Jodi Cohen: Yes. Yes. You always get to be you always are in control of how you feel and how you think. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, thanks so much, Jody, head over to vibrantblueoils.com, parasympathetic summit links down below. Hope you guys enjoyed today’s podcast. Have a good one. Jodi, great chatting with you.


References:

https://justinhealth.com/

https://parasympatheticsummit.com

https://vibrantblueoils.com/

https://amzn.to/3lCizd9

Audio Podcast:

Staying Fit with Adrenal Dysfunction and Chronic Fatigue – Is it Possible? | Podcast #308

If you have adrenal dysfunction and chronic fatigue, exercise is probably the last thing you feel like doing. Your adrenal glands are responsible for keeping the well-being of your body in balance through hormones. These glands also produce the hormone cortisol, which is released during your fight-or-flight response. As you can imagine, cortisol is beneficial when you need to be alert and escape danger.  For more on exercise with adrenal dysfunction and chronic fatigue, listen to the entire podcast!

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

In this episode, we cover:

1:38        Exercise Movements, Use of Bands, Etc

9:06       Rowers

15:37      Hacks to Increase Exercise Performance

18:53      Post Recovery Stuff

29:39      Why Exercise is Important

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Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And we are live. It’s Dr. J here in the house with Evan brand, Evan, how are we doing my friend? 

Evan Brand: Doing really good, excited to dive into this topic, I’ve suffered tremendously with exercise intolerance for a while, and luckily have pulled myself out of it. And I can empathize with people that want to exercise, but they literally physically can’t. Or if they do, they crash out, which is what was happening to me. So let me just share a story just for a minute, and then we’ll dive in some to the details of it. But there are different things that can make people exercise intolerant. For me, I think it was a combination of factors like everything, but I was to the point where, if I did try to push myself, it would take an extremely long time to recover, you know, two, three, sometimes four days, I would still be recovering from the the workout and I thought, Okay, well, as you and I talked about, we got to adjust the levers, I got to lower the intensity, I got to lower the duration and the frequency. So I did, but it wasn’t enough, I still felt like no matter if it’s a 10 minute or 30 minute, I was still drained. So for me, I think it was detox, I think it was getting my mitochondria working better, definitely getting adrenals working better. I think neurotransmitters played a role too, because, you know, you could have low motivation and low drive if dopamine is effective. So we’ll go into that. But that’s, that was my story. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very important. I think anyone that’s health conscious, right, like you’re moving a couple of levers when you’re health conscious, right, you’re really working on drinking clean water, you’re working on improving your food quality, maybe adjusting your macros, maybe you’re taking some supplements. And of course, the The other thing you will be putting a lot of focus on will be movement, right. And I just call exercise movement. So like the first met, the three levers that we can move we already kind of highlighted is frequency, how many times per week we’re exercising intensity, could be how intense the movement is a compound movement that uses multiple joints, like a front squat, or a single leg deadlift with a row kind of component, or something like a bicep curl, that’s like, you know, just your elbow joint, that kind of a single joint movement, that’s more bodybuilding based, and, and less kind of metabolism based, right full body bass. So we have frequency intensity, the type of movements and that also can include the rest time between sets, too, right. So you can also increase, you can do more intense stuff, and then just have more rest time to kind of be back to baseline in between. And the last is duration, how long your workout is, that’s helpful, too. So some data by Charles poliquin, who talked about cortisol really starts to increase, you know, 45 to 50 minutes in. And again, that’s gonna be for someone that’s more on the healthy side. So I always tell people, like keep your workout, if you’re more stressed, keep it under 20 minutes, that’s a pretty good rule of thumb, you know, and just try to do more circuit movements, where you do movements back to back to back, that can be helpful. But then we kind of have to gauge and how your body is adapting to the exercise. It’s all about adaptation. And so exercise is a stress, and we want our body to be able to adapt to that stress, so we grow stronger. Now, if that stress is too much, where our body is not able to adapt to it, meaning we’re getting weaker, we’re getting more tired, that defeats the purpose of exercise, we want our body to positively adapt to that stress. If it can’t, then we have to move those three levers frequency, intensity, duration, and we may even have to switch out of certain movements, we may have to switch into more yoga or more walking or more, you know, Tai Chi types of movements in the beginning and just kind of go from there. So there’s a couple different levers. And so there’s three questions I always ask my patients, my patients that are listening, they know this, do you feel better after the workout than when you started, you want to always feel like your exercise is energizing you. That’s a good place to know that you’re adapting to your exercise you’re able to adapt to it. Number two is you can emotionally repeat the exercise afterwards. Once your heart rates kind of brought back down to the baseline after you stopped your movement. Can you emotionally do it again? Are you like, wow, I’m done. Right? And then number three is going to be last question is how do you feel later on that day, if it’s a morning workout, or that next morning, if it’s an afternoon or nighttime workout? Do you feel overly tired hit by a bus overly sore? Now if you’re adding in a front squat or a deadlift for the first time, you may feel a little sore. But in general, how do you feel? Do you feel overly tired overly sore hit by a bus? If so we want to adjust some of those movements for sure.

Evan Brand: Yep, good, good points. For me. I don’t have to count or measure or anything like that or time to workouts. I just get to a certain point with lifting weights. I primarily lift weights. I mean, I do like to go on bike rides, I’ll take the kids that’s pretty hard work with the legs. I do like my roll machine. So I’ll do that. But I don’t really measure count or anything I get to the point in the workout where my pump goes into more of like you can just feel that you’re becoming catabolic, you feel like your muscle tissue is now being used as an energy supply. Now, people that are new to it or if they haven’t been exercising for a long time. They may not be that in tune with their body. But for me, it starts out with the heavy lifts, I’m getting the pump, I feel good, I feel the blood flow. And then it gets to the point where I feel like I don’t want to say I’m hurting myself. But the dumbbell that used to feel pretty good and challenging now just feels like a frickin rock. And I’m like, oh, okay, I think that means I’m done now, and then I end the workout. If I go past that point, then it’s too much. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, exactly. So that that’s a really good place, you can also incorporate bands, what’s nice about bands is the loading is the highest at your concentric phase, right? Imagine I’m doing a dumbbell curl, right? At the highest point, the The band has the most force in it, right the most intensity or force. And then as I lower right, this is the East centric face. I’m Ilan gating my muscle, so in a bicep curl, I’m moving the bar down to the dumbbell downward, the load is actually decreasing as I’m lowering it. So you have a decrease in force on that essentra curve, where like, if a dumbbell or barbell was there, it’s the same the whole way, like, so the benefit of the decrease in load is most of your muscle, shredding, or depletion happens in the E centric. So what does that mean? That means you can focus on really light, really nice, slow lowering phases that those two things, it burns more muscle, right. And then number two, most injuries happen, because people are bouncing the weight, or in that lowering phase, they kind of have a jerky move where they kind of relaxed the weight, and they catch it at the bottom of that movement. And like what sofa benchpress, that’s on your chest or military press that’s on your shoulder. Or if it’s a bicep curl, it’s at the bottom right, and you’re kind of bouncing that way, or a deadlift that’s at the bottom right where you bounce. So when you do a nice lowering phase, you prevent that bounce from happening. And that’s where almost always all the injuries happen. So if you do a nice lowering a nice slow lowering phase, maybe a three to four second, he centric think he centric he long gait. So have a nice, slowly centric, you’re not going to hurt yourself as much. And then number two, you’re still burning a bit of a bit of muscle. And number three, if you’re still really sore excessively, one, you can switch to more bands, and the bands will give you that decreased load. As you as you kind of move, which is nice, it really helps the muscles give it a little more recovery, but still gives you that increased load at the top, so you have more concentric load, right? So when your muscles the shortest, right that benchpress at the top position, the loads the highest, and it’s going to be even more than a weight would be right. And then it drops off on the lowering. So it’s a little bit safer. And you’re not going to overly kill your muscles in that lowering II centric phase. 

Evan Brand: Yeah, that’s safer, too, if you don’t have a spotter, right? If you’re trying to do all this stuff at home, I mean, I’ve been guilty before of wearing myself out getting past a point of fatigue, where I’m like, Oh, I could really use a spotter right now. But I don’t have one. So the bands would be safer in that aspect too. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, bands are safer and are of course, just using like a dumbbell is going to be helpful too. Because dumbbell obviously there’s no bar across there. So you’re not gonna expect to fixate yourself, your lower too much. And then you’re going to get a lot of fatigue on the lowering. And that’s what helps. But the bands do help for sure. And it gives you that really good ability to generate a lot of force. And also it’s safer. So I do like that as a good option. 

Evan Brand: Yeah, and someone’s listening and they’re gonna say, well, bands where the heck do I get them? What strength? Do I get them? They usually come in variety packs, don’t they? Like there’s going to be like a black one, a green one. And they’re going to be different like intensities, right? 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I mean, I like the X3 bar for some of the some of the the bigger bodybuilding movements because the band’s really thick and it can generate hundreds and hundreds of pounds of force. So I like the x3 bar for that. So like for deadlift, that bar that that strap or that a cable is going to create a band. I’m sorry, that band will generate hundreds of pounds of force. Same thing on the bench, same thing on a tricep extension. And so it’s very helpful. So I do like that. 

Evan Brand: Cool. Any updates on your rower? 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, yeah, it’s coming. I got the concept D rower. So I try to do a little bit more of the rolling for my aerobic stuff just because I like things that bring me into extension so much cardio is like your inflection, whether you’re on elliptical or riding a bike or whatever. I like kind of bringing more extension into my body so… easy! Sorry. That’s my dog. That’s my dog. We’re live here. 

Evan Brand: I love it. I love the rower. I mean, to me, it’s, it’s, I feel so good on it. And I never really thought about what you’re saying. But yeah, most exercises are you’re kind of like going into monkey mode, you’re not really pulling back and stretching. That is like one of the only things that and the seated row, like on an actual machine with weights. Those are probably two of the only things that really kind of pull you pull you out and stretch you out like that. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, totally. Oh, by the way, I have my my natural pesticide guy here, which is kind of cool. So he’s actually spraying essential oils around my perimeter. So he’s spraying cedar, some citronella, some orange peel some olive leaf, just to keep some of the bugs down. So and then we found a bee’s nest in the back on the ground. So we’re putting a little bit of boric acid in diatomaceous earth in there to kind of to knock that out. So we try to, you know, just a little education here, we’re trying to do some natural kind of insecticide solutions, because a lot of those toxins can be very harmful to kids and, and women and children, especially guys, too, because they’re very estrogenic. So we try to use natural solutions here. So you guys see that live in the flesh here. 

Evan Brand: Yep. And if you are exposed to all that crap, whether it’s from you spraying it or hiring somebody else to spray and you’re getting exposed to it, that’s going to affect mitochondria. And that’s going to affect energy. So when you get into this whole thing of chronic fatigue, adrenals exercise and tolerance, a lot of it has to do with toxicity, I will tell you 100% with confidence, when I’m doing binders, I’m stronger when I’m on detox support chlorella, whether it’s charcoal, Clay zeolites. I’m always stronger with some binders in my system. So for me, the toxins and for everyone really, the toxins are kryptonite. And that’s just a fact of the modern world. So wherever you can reduce those, reduce them, I mean, think about your kids, right? You go to a playground, my wife took my kids to a couple playgrounds over the summer, and the guy shows up with a huge tank of glyphosate on his back and just bombs the whole playground, because there were weeds growing up in the mulch and it goes up, well can’t go to that playground anymore. So it’s annoying that we have to be this observant, but it’s kind of what it takes in the modern world. I mean, unfortunately, in the 21st century, everywhere you look in turn, whether it’s the the air, or the water supply, or the ground, or the dirt or the soil you’re eating food out of there are chemicals that are disrupting your mitochondria, they’re disrupting cell membranes that are affecting your gut bacteria. And so I get annoyed with just the diet and exercise conversations that you see in the mainstream because they make it just like it’s that like, you’re not motivated enough. You just need to be strong pain is weakness, leaving the body push through, push through, it’s you literally from a biochemical, mechanical, mitochondrial perspective, neurotransmitter perspective, you can’t push through, you can’t so you know, you got poor Jane Doe, at the at the fitness class. And you know, she’s 50, or 100 pounds overweight, and she just thinks that she’s just fat and lazy. And that’s why that’s her problem. But it’s like, no, you’re toxic. Let me show you on paper. And I’m going to explain why your personal trainer doesn’t have a clue why you can’t tolerate the exercise and why you’re sore for a week. He just thinks you need to just quit being a sissy and drink another protein shake. No, that’s not the answer. So I love that we can intertwine the functional medicine piece into the exercise piece. Because the mainstream fitness community, it’s sad, it’s all this boot camp, you know, military CrossFit mentality. But when someone doesn’t perform like everyone else, those people get ostracized, and they don’t have a clue what’s underneath the hood. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I mean, everyone, you got to treat everyone like an individual. And everyone’s coming at this a little bit differently. So you want to meet people where they’re at exercise, you know, and a lot of these things is going to be a stressor, so you want to apply the appropriate amount of stress. So you give your body the chance to adapt, it’s never the the exercise, it’s the ability for your body to adapt, and you have to kind of meet your body where it is. So if you’re someone that’s obese, it may just be walking a couple thousand, maybe 1000 steps or just squeezing your muscles doing an eccentric movement, you know, that may be enough based on where you’re at. So you got to figure out where you’re at and try to go maybe 10%, above where you’re at, on a day in day out basis.

Evan Brand: Yeah, and I’m not trying to poopoo personal trainers, I used to do some personal training, I had some certifications in different movements, kettlebells and things and I helped a lot of people but so so you can tweak the exercises, meaning you can tone things down for those people. But there’s at a certain point, you at a certain point, a personal trainer has a limit to what they can do for you. Meaning if you literally have so much toxicity that’s affecting mitochondria, you literally can’t build up your your weight, you can’t go 10 minutes longer. You can’t, you know, do three more planes, you just can’t. So then that’s where you got to come in. And we look at the labs to try to figure out what’s under the hood with these people. Why can’t they Why are they such a poor recovery. So like, well measure lactic acid on organic acids testing. And we know that when you have bacterial overgrowth, for example, that it produces lactic acid certain species do. And so if this person is sore without even working out, they’re going to be really sore when they work out. So we’ll focus on the gut, we’ll get that the production of lactic acid down from the gut bugs, and then boom, now they can handle that lactic acid bucket is drained now they can handle the exercise and the production there. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, exactly. You know, I’ve taken personal training sessions as a personal trainer for a long time and I’ve been trained by people where I feel too sore for a couple days afterwards. And usually if you feel too sore, it’s you put too much intensity in it. The dose wasn’t dialed in for you because you’re Giving your body the chance to heal and recover because you get stronger on the rest time. And if you created so much damage for 234 days later, you’re really excessively so you did too much you’re creating scar tissue in the muscle. And that’s not good. So you really want to individualize this. And I, you know, I see patients from all different walks of life from chronic fatigue autoimmune patients that are bedridden to people that are professional athletes trying to perform at the highest level, and you want to meet the demand where that person is at because it’s all about getting their body to function just a little bit better every day, and everyone is at a different place on their journey. So I think the individualization is so important. 

Evan Brand: Do you want to get into some of the hacks at all like some of the things we do to kind of increase exercise performance? Because I’ve got several ideas at the top of my tongue here. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, sure. I did a video on this last week where I talked about some of the ideas in regards to movement stuff like exercise stuffs, I think the easiest first thing for is really good lowering or good eccentric movements, I think are a great way to burn a whole bunch of muscle and, and allow you to use more weight and not get hurt. Because I mentioned earlier, it’s the lowering phase, the centric phase where people get hurt. And when you do a nice low, slow movement on the centric, you’re less likely to get hurt. And number two, you’re going to create more burning of that muscle, more depletion of that muscle. And as long as you don’t overdo it, it’s a good first step. 

Evan Brand: I was into bodybuilding in high school. So I was doing a lot of those pre workout drinks. And they were just so bad for you. I mean, it was all just hundreds and hundreds of milligrams of caffeine, artificial colors. I’m sure there were sucralose and aspartame and potentially other garbage in there. And it just wasn’t good. I tried to pick clean choices. But you know, at the time, there weren’t that many good clean products on the market. So now there are there are some professional companies that you and I use that have some pre trained type nutrients, things that have some creatine, some tyrosine, some acetyl, l carnitine, can be very helpful. A little bit of like green coffee bean extract for caffeine can be good. There’s actually a nutrient called peak ATP, it’s a company and they’ve make so much like literally just straight ATP, and you can actually take it in powder form so that for me really, really helps. And then I like all the nitric oxide stuff. So I’ll do like a teaspoon of beet powder. I’ll do before the sauna, but also do before exercise, the beet powder is awesome. And then I like a lot of the adaptogen. So rhodiola makes me feel really good. As a as an endurance support. We use it for athletes, as you mentioned. And Holy basil’s is good. B vitamins a course that’s always low hanging fruit, there’s some good really good forms of creatine that we use, those can be helpful. And I think that’s about it. Are there any other like pre train nutrients that you like or that you use? 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So you kind of hit a bunch of them. So off the bat, you know, creatine and branched chain amino acids are wonderful, and it gets great, a little bit of caffeine can be very helpful to kind of mobilize free fatty acids. So whether you’re doing like a cold brew, coffee in your smoothie with the amino acids can be great. I do my Mito synergy support because it’s got some extra carnitine, extra ribose, a little extra creatine in there, some HLA some B vitamins, just those low hanging fruits are wonderful before workout. But I’d say creatine, branched chain amino acids, maybe a little bit of caffeine, especially if it’s a morning or afternoon workout, don’t do that, if it’s a nighttime workout. That’s a good first step, I think, to really hit it out of the park. And then we talked about movement patterns, I like really focusing on the centric, I also like focusing on circuit. So doing two to three movements back to back to back can be very helpful, because you can get a lot of volume done meaning a lot of reps and sets in, you know, smaller amount of time. So that’s great, because you can have a 15 to 20 minute workout that may have may have taken you 30 or 45 minutes if you did it one exercise at a time. So it gives you the ability to to make it more practical, which is great. 

Evan Brand: Yeah, I think the next thing we should hit on is kind of the post recovery stuff. So what about the person who is getting into the exercise? Maybe they’re not tolerating it? Well, maybe their recovery time is a bit too long the wanting to shorten that I think the bcaas could be great before and or after. And then I’m a huge fan of like a Grass Fed Whey Protein Shake, but make a smoothie out of it. So there’s a couple grass fed ways that you and I use it are super good quality, and we’ll throw in like a scoop of coconut butter. If you can tolerate nuts, maybe a scoop of almond butter may be good. And then I’m a big fan of some of the Oregon meats too. Whether it’s actual Oregon meat or like some organ meat capsules, those can be really helpful for recovery and just making sure your body has the role nutrition it needs. And then good sleep. I mean, you can’t forget about good sleep. I mean, I see so many people who are moms that are trying to hit the gym or do whatever, five times a week, but they’re up too late. And they’re up too early. You know, they’re up at 430 in the morning to go hit the treadmill. It’s like ah, I’d prefer you sleep in until 630 or seven. Do that workout later and not miss your cortisol peak because the problem is if you’re up too early to exercise, you’re really missing that cortisol peak. It’s kind of like you took your iPhone off the charger when it was only at 50%. We’ve seen based on thousands of reviewing labs that the cortisol doesn’t really peak until around sunrise or so. And if you’re up at 430, the battery is not fully charged. So now that cortisol is going to just halfway peak, and then it’s going to crash much sooner, so you’re just not going to get the best bang for your buck, if you’re doing those super, super early workouts now isn’t better than nothing, probably. But I’m just giving you a couple details that we’ve, we’ve seen. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, when your nervous system is a little bit more fragile. When you have more adrenal issues, doing a later workout in the day is probably not the best, because that’s going to get more of that sympathetic nervous system kind of stimulated. And it made the the more unhealthy or the more out of balance your adrenals are the harder it, it takes your adrenals to wind down and kind of downshift from that sympathetic adrenal stimulating workout. So there’s going to be some adrenal stimulation, of course, right, which isn’t bad thing. But the question is, Do you have enough time to adapt and come down from that workout before bed, and that’s where it may affect your ability to repair before bed. So that’s why doing a workout, let’s say before two o’clock is ideal, you know, and again, the healthier you are on, the more you can downshift, the better, right, I typically recommend try to give yourself at least two to three hours to come down. So if you want to be in bed by 11, you want that workout to be done by eight for sure. That way you have at least three hours to come down from it, and try to do it more in the morning because you have that natural cortisol peak. And if that cortisol peak is going while you’re stimulating cortisol, you’re just more in harmony with your natural rhythm of cortisol going up. And adrenal stimulation going up, it’s kind of like, hey, more light at night. And when when melatonin goes up, are they’re not going to work because cortisol is going down at night. And light goes up at night, which can stimulate cortisol. So you kind of have the inverse thing happening with lights. And with cortisol at night, it’s the same thing with exercise and cortisol. So you rather do it when you have more harmony going on. But I understand some people that may not be an option. And if that is just try to give yourself more time. And really try to make sure that it’s not throwing off your sleep rhythm. And if it is adjust the frequency, the intensity and the duration, so you can recover from it and not mess up your sleep.

Evan Brand: And this is tough to do a podcast on because there’s so many different people with different work schedules. And well, my, my kids are with me on these days. So I can’t work out in the morning on these days. And I take my kids to school on this day, you know, so obviously, what we’re saying these are generalities, I know you have to work it into your schedule. But yeah, if you could do like a morning workout, I think that’s smart. But not an early morning workout. I don’t think people should be setting an alarm to get up at 4am to go jump on the treadmill at 4:30am. I just don’t think that’s smart. But if you were up with the sun at seven, and you could do it, that would be good. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, ideally, for sure. Now, if someone visits us their work schedule, and they can get to bed by between eight and nine o’clock, so they they’re still getting at least seven hours of sleep. Sure, that’s at least better than nothing. So you just got to make sure the sleep is is compensating for the time getting up early for sure. But I agree, you know, the more you’re in harmony with the sun, the more your body likes that. 

Evan Brand: Yeah, ashwagandha can be used in the evening, I remember I would do that if I had some late workouts that would kind of stimulate me. If I did like some ashwagandha at night, it would help help kind of calm it down you and I’ve talked about many times how it helps to regulate cortisol. So that’s what adaptogens do. If you’re too low, it kind of brings you back to balance if you’re too high and can bring you back to balance. So let’s say you did a eight o’clock workout tried to go to bed at 930 You’re still kind of ramped up maybe capsule or two, I like to use some liquid gel caps of ashwagandha tincture, and that really settles you down pretty quick. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% agree. Yeah. 100%. Great. That makes a lot of sense. So I think we hit some of the exercise kind of options, right? We talked about amino acids and nutrients pre post during we talked about different styles of exercises. I would say one thing in there, if you don’t have a lot of time to BOD or some kind of an interval on the cardio cardio side, whether it’s like an elliptical or treadmill or or bike, we’re a bigger fan of the rowers because you’re getting more extension in your body and there’s tends to be less extension with cardios and we tend to be more inflection throughout the day right at a keyboard right typing, all that stuff brings our body more into flexion. So using more extensions stuff can be really helpful. So I like more extension movements like we already chatted about. And I like a rower for that and you can do a 32nd 20-20 or 32nd high intensity movement followed by a Tabata which may be a 10 second rest period all the way up to a peak eight which may be a 92nd rest period. And you can just adjust the rest period and the exercise period to kind of suit your body so anywhere between a 10 to 32nd. High Intensity full out, you know as fast as you can go followed by a 10 second to 92nd rest period. That’s very helpful for increasing your metabolism and putting on muscle too. 

Evan Brand: I tell you on that rower, what I’ll typically do is I’ll do 500 meter sets, you know so typically with like weightlifting in regards to building muscle people, you’re going to want to be looking for around three, maybe four sets of 10 to 15 Just depending on how you know what how you’re feeling what your goal is, but with the rower, I’ll do 500 meters as a set. And it’s give or take around two minutes to do that, man, I’ll tell you, you want a full body blood flow, that rower does it because you know your legs, you’re pushing to kind of slide yourself back, and then you’re pulling, and then hopefully, you’re, you’re fully pulling back, I think a lot of people stopped too soon. But if you’re pulling that bar all the way back to the chest, and then you go back in, and man, I feel great on it. So it’s-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, it’s using your hamstrings to kind of bring yourself back closer to the machine to so you’re getting a little bit of extension on the quads, a little bit of flexion on the hamstrings, and then you’re getting some bicep and some and some rhomboids and some upper back, which is really nice. So I agree, I think it’s really good movement pattern. 

Evan Brand: I put it on Max, I mean, you know, it’s, it’s kind of hard. Like if I was on a desert island, would it be the only piece of equipment No, I’d probably bring like a kettlebell maybe, or a dumbbell on the desert island. But it, rowers pretty dang close to the all in one solution, if you’re somebody who’s just looking to get your heart rate up, but also you could build some muscle, I put it on the max setting. So it is it’s the most resistance. And then if you pull on that thing really hard or really quick, you increase the resistance more. So yeah, I mean, you can get a pump, you can build some, some good back muscles and arms and deltoids using that and some traps. I mean, you’re gonna hit your traps a little bit on the road. So I’m a huge fan. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I like kettlebell swings as well. I mean, the only issue with the kettlebell swing is when you go into the East centric on the kettlebell swing, there is no low, slowly centric, it’s gonna be fast. So you’ve got to make sure you’re in a little bit better condition on the kettlebell. So you can go you know, have a really good explosive, ie sedgewick. And concentric because that eccentric when that kettlebell is coming down, you’re not you can’t lower that speed, it’s coming down at full speed, which is great, because you have to absorb it and use those hips to kind of soak in and grab that momentum, which is great. People that are beginners, they tend to use their back more and they can get hurt. So kettlebells I think there’s a really simple movement where you can kind of walk by it a couple times a day, and do you know some sets to failure on it, just make sure you know how to do it right. You have some good forum, find a trainer that can kind of walk you through the movement pattern, so you feel comfortable and confidence you don’t get hurt.

Evan Brand: Yeah, I was gonna say I probably in a kettlebell situation, I’d probably pay for a couple hours of training on it, because I definitely hurt my back. When I first started. I didn’t know what the heck I was doing. I just looked at some videos, I thought, Oh, yeah, this seems about right. Now, there’s some minor tweaks that can really affect how that load bearing hits your back. So for people, you know, that are not, you’re not an athlete, I would not go straight to a kettlebell. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Correct. Yeah. 100%. And then I’d like a lot of body weight stuff. So I have like the push up bars I like just because I can get a really good deep push up most people, man, they do have push ups, right? They do have push ups. I like the bar. So I can just get really in deep, get a good full range of motion. And I keep my wrist kind of in a neutral format holding the bar versus like this, which I don’t I don’t think it’s the best thing. You know, it hurts the wrist. Yeah, it hurts. So you can kind of keep it nice and neutral. You can go nice and deep. And that can have a nice, good eccentric on there, which is wonderful. 

Evan Brand: Yeah, so you’re using the like, the handles, yeah, like here, we have each handle for the, for the push ups. Okay. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, like that. And it goes really good. They have some that do a rotation thing, which is okay, too. I mean, you can hit the packs pretty good there too. But just to be able to go deep in there and be able to keep your wrist neutral, I think is wonderful. 

Evan Brand: I love pull ups. I mean, I tell you, I got extremely strong doing pull ups. But for people that are beginners pull ups, you might not even be able to do one and that’s okay, what you could even do is use like a little step stool, and just jump up there and just hold yourself up and the pull up position. That’s how I started out was just holding at the peak of the pull up. And then eventually I just let myself down slowly, and then pull up again. And then I was to the point where I could do three sets of 10 on pull up, I swear to you, man, that’s exhausting. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: If you go search online, like pull up assist, you can get bands, they kind of hook around and there’s like three or four bands. And then you can add a band for the for the intensity on the assist. And so what I’ll do is I’ll go in, I’ll do as many pull ups, which is you know, palms facing you or chin ups, palms facing away, right chin ups, more lat pull up more biceps, and I’ll do as many as I can the failure. And then I’ll go in and then put the bands on right after my knee and then I’ll go do it again to failure. So that’s a pretty good kind of a nice drop set where you go as much as you can bodyweight. And then you jump in with a little bit of help. And that can be super, super helpful. Just just people don’t people aren’t used to controlling their body weight like that. And it’s really functional to be able to move your body in a way where you are, you know, in control of your body from a weight standpoint, like you’re able to, to move and functionally manage your body in space and time without any extra stuff on there think it’s really functional. 

Evan Brand: Yeah, I mean, that’s the thing that people listening if you’re like, I just don’t like exercise. I hate exercise. I’m not into it. I’d rather go hiking Look, I hear you. But the benefits are not just in and out of the workout. The benefits apply to picking up your kids the benefits apply to playing with your grandchildren, the benefits apply to doing yard work. Bringing in heavy bags of groceries and you don’t want to make multiple trips, you can grab all the groceries in one trip. And so it’s just awesome to be able to to build muscle. If you’re climbing ladders, if you’re in construction, I mean just that, as you’re mentioning, it’s functional, this stuff applies. This is not just for vanity, this stuff really applies to everything if I weren’t in decent shape. my four year old, she’s heavy. When I go to pick up that kid, it’s awesome to be able to have the muscles to just make her a dumbbell. I just pick her up like a dumbbell. You know, it’s it’s fun. If I were in bad shape, you know, I maybe hurt my back, just bending over to pick her up. So this stuff is the stuff is great. And especially as you get into 60s and 70s. I mean, we know that with bone density being a big issue, we have so many clients with osteopenia, osteoporosis issues, yeah, we can give you supplements for that. But the best free thing you can do is to do weight bearing exercises to really preserve your bone health as you age. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I always look for movements that translate to me living my life better. So anytime you can move your body, you know, in a way where you’re managing the weight of your body, that translates to you managing the weight of your body when you’re, for instance, roughhousing with your kids in the pool or something like or like I’m throwing my kids up in the air, like one handed like, you know, one handed, like, Where did that get shot, put kind of thing. It’s like, I need really good shoulder stabilization and really good lat strength, and core stabilization to be able to make that happen. So it’s nice to do movements that can translate to you being able to play with your family or friends or do your sport or do your hobby. So that’s really important to think of like, what movements do I want to do in my workout that will translate to me living my life better. So always kind of think a little bit deeper. Most people just think like, hey, what movements to make myself look better naked. That’s cool. I have to run with that. But now we got to think a little bit deeper now.

Evan Brand: Yeah, I think if someone’s listening, and they’re like, well, I’m pretty much disabled. In terms of my physical performance. I’m just super weak. I would try a plank. I mean, a plank is a game changer, where you’re just getting on, you’re kind of resting on your elbows and forearms. And you’re just holding yourself even if you can only do a plank for 10 seconds. My Lord, I can’t tell you core strength, you hear about this term core strength, it really does apply, I just got back into doing some planks pretty regularly. And even just sitting in a chair, I sit better in a chair now having more core strength. Yeah, I think it’s great. You just don’t fold in, you know, if you have no core strength, you just like you said you fold in, you get into the turtle the turtle position on the computer, and it’s just not good. The next forward and get the core strength, you’re more just confident with the way you sit. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, also just just get a stand desk that allows you to stand throughout the day, like I’m standing right now, I’m using core strength just being able to stand right, that’s super helpful. Or let’s say you sit a lot and you don’t have the money to invest in a state that’s well, let’s just try to invest maybe in a Swiss ball, a physio ball or Swiss ball that will allow you to sit but now you have to engage your core a little bit so you don’t fall right. That’s a good first step. And then you can move to a stand desk where you’re upright, and you can kind of move and like look at my body posture throughout the day, I’m pretty upright, I have to pull my backpack, pull my arms back. So I’m in a much better position to be more athletic. And to get my my cold body activated versus in this like sitting down position, which is totally unhealthy. 

Evan Brand: Yeah, I kind of bend my legs a little too, I’m standing down too. And so you know, I mean, my hamstrings are pretty flexed right now just standing here talking. So that’s pretty cool. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And you can buy an anti fatigue mat, which is fine, you can do that too. I’m kind of moving a lot. When I’m standing I’m on a treadmill, so it’s not necessary. For me I like to move a little bit. So that’s helpful. And then it kind of have a slight bend my knees, take the stress off my my lower back so that I think those are really good first steps. And I also have some QB pedals when I sit down, I can also pedal a little bit. So it’s good to have a lot of unstructured exercise that you’re doing throughout the day where you’re getting some movement and it’s not yourself being in the gym doing this workout, you’re kind of adding some movement here adding some movement there. And it’s it’s nice to be able to get that 10,000 steps or so a day, just to make sure your body’s moving. You’re not overly sedentary. Because if you’re getting 2000 steps a day, but you’re in the gym for 30 minutes. Is that really healthy. I mean, you definitely want some steps, you definitely want some movements as well. 

Evan Brand: Yeah. Now, if you just want to opt out of the whole thing and just become a farmer, then that’s an option too. But if you’re like a farmer that’s just sitting on a tractor, you’re not getting much exercise, but think of our ancestors, right? I mean, they didn’t have to think about exercise the way we do. It just happened. It was a byproduct of surviving. And now it’s optional. So it’s funny, we have to have this conversation versus even just a couple hundred years ago, my grandparents, grandparents, you know, they’re out in the field. They didn’t even have mechanical equipment. They had horses and plows. Oh, my God, I bet you those people were getting 10,000 steps at least per day and sunshine and fresh air. They didn’t have to think about it. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I 100% agree, you know, but we got to adapt and we got to create artificial stress through our workouts to keep our muscles and our body strong. So I think that’s great. Is there anything else you want to add today and I think we hit all the really good stuff. Maybe people that are really having a hard time adapting and figuring out the next step they can they can reach out to us here below EvanBrand.com to reach out to for you worldwide. JustinHealth.com for Dr. J myself. And also we may have to dive in deeper and test your adrenals test your hormones, get your gut, maybe give you more nutritional support, hormone support adaptogenic stress support to get you all to the next level. And that’s going to be a thing for most people, depending on how good or bad they you know where they’re at, and how much they want to improve. That could be something that we consider to be an accelerator to get you to the next level. So that’s always an option for y’all as well. Anything else you want to add, Evan? 

Evan Brand: No, that’s it. You mentioned the links JustinHealth.com EvanBrand.com we’re happy to help people. We love this stuff. I mean, it’s, it’s such a great thing to be able to take a woman who’s exhausted trying to keep up with the kids, we get her mitochondria working better, we get her gut working better, she’s able to exercise and perform and then boom, it in turn makes her a better parent. She’s able to keep up with the kids now or the grandparents are able to run around with the grandkids. So you know, remember what this is all for. At the end of the day, it’s for you to be able to function through you know, on planet earth through your body in a better way without being injured. So it’s awesome. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I love it Evan, excellent point today. It was a great podcast. Hope you guys enjoyed. Thumbs up really appreciate it. Comment down below. We really appreciate it. There’ll be a link below if you guys enjoyed it. Shoot us over a review. We’d love to hear your thoughts and feedback. Evan, you have an awesome day, man. You take care. 

Evan Brand: Take care now. Thanks bye bye.


References:

https://www.evanbrand.com/

https://justinhealth.com/

Audio Podcast:

https://justinhealth.libsyn.com/staying-fit-with-adrenal-dysfunction-and-chronic-fatigue-is-it-possible-podcast-308

Meditation Using Muse Device with Ariel Garten | Podcast #304

We all have thoughts, and none of us are good at meditation at first, during, or maybe at the end. Here’s Ariel Garnet, introducing us to the Muse and the use of an approach NOT to get rid of those thoughts but to help you make yourself aware of those thoughts and increase the choice of what to do with those. 

Are you doing it right? The Muse uses Machine Learning Approach, which has an algorithm that analyzes brain wave activity. There, it shows focused attention (when it’s quiet) and distracted or wandering thoughts (when there’s a storm pick-up). Also, concentrated attention and meditation have a natural anchor such as word, part of the body, or our breath, which is more accessible.  Ariel added that we have different forms of meditation and focused attention is the most common one. It puts the attention to your breath instead of following your thoughts and shifting it to yourself. 

What’s the minimum dose? Twenty (20) minutes can be heavy, so it’s acceptable to do it up to what’s bearable for beginners and usually ten (10) minutes for regulars. It also shows that there are improvements with the body’s cognitive function, inhibition, and decrease in stress. Don’t miss the full video to see how it works!

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

In this episode, we cover:

0:36      Muse Meditation Device

3:49      Basics of Meditation

9:30      How Muse Gets the Data

13:34    Biofeedback Devices

21:07    How Muse Works

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Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And we are alive. It’s Dr. J here in the house with Ariel Garten, the founder of the Muse meditation device, really excited to have her on today we’re going to talk about this awesome new cutting edge technology. And we’ll kind of also just bring it back down to the basics of meditation. What is it? What are the benefits? What’s happening in your brain and how to actually apply it? Ariel, welcome to the podcast.

Ariel Garten: Thank you my sincere pleasure to be here. Hello, everyone.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent. Well, why don’t you tell the listeners a little bit more about yourself? And how did you make this journey into meditation and then what made you want to come up with this new technology to enhance that?

Ariel Garten: Sure. So my own background is a training in neuroscience. So I was fascinated by the brain and how it works. I then became a psychotherapist and began dealing with patients every day helping them shift their own mental state and recognized how difficult it was. And meditation was a skill that I was taught as something to use inside of my practice with my patients. But I would teach my patients to do it, and they would rarely actually start the habit. So it became this really frustrating process of teaching someone to meditate, and then not actually seeing the benefits rolling out into their life. I, at the same time was working in a research lab with Dr. Steve Mann, and he had an early brain computer interface system. So using eg electrodes, we could track your brainwaves and then turn that brainwave activity into sound. And we really had this aha moment, myself and my co founders of muse, Chris and Trevor, we had this aha moment that if we can make this invisible, intangible process, in your mind, visible and tangible, maybe we could apply that to meditation, maybe we could actually help people hear what was going on inside their mind while they meditated. And in doing so actually get people to start and maintain their meditation practice, if they could get real feedback and have real data from their brain. And that was born.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Cool. So you have this kind of biofeedback, that kind of help you distinguish if you were in a good kind of brain wavelength state, so to speak. And then how does that how does that sound compute? So like, is it what’s the wavelength in your brain? That’s supposedly good? And how does it know that you’re there? And how does it How does it do all that connection back and forth?

Ariel Garten: Sure. So the old school approach to doing biofeedback or neurofeedback on meditation, is just to look at your band. So if you’re in beta band, you’re thinking in your brains all over the place, you’re likely not meditating. If you’re an alpha, you’re seeing an increase in meditation. And if you’re seeing some data, then there’s even more meditation. That was the old school way of doing meditation. At this point, we’ve now taught literally hundreds of thousands of people to meditate using news. And so we use a machine learning approach. And we have an algorithm that understands when you’re in focused attention, versus when your mind is wandering. So it analyzes every aspect of your brainwave activity at that moment, and knows if you’re specifically in focused attention, which is the fundamental of a focused attention meditation, or if your mind has wandered and is distracted. And what we do is we turn that into a sound that’s very easy to understand that it’s your mind. So when you’re focused, the sound is quiet. And when you’re distracted, you hear a storm pickup, it’s like my mind is stormy. Oh, okay, let’s bring it back to calm. And when you focus a calm again. And when your mind gets distracted on a thought up mind to stormy, then bring it back down to calm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s interesting, because I find a lot of people and even myself when they’re doing a meditation, one of the first things they kind of think to themselves is, am I doing this, right? Like, I’m not sure there’s kind of this hesitation of is this, is this all wrong? So I kind of like the fact that you get a little bit of a feedback. And so let’s say you’re using the device, right? And you get the storm clouds coming in, what should be the focus, like, what should that switch be to bring you back on track? 

Ariel Garten: Sure. So you bring your attention back to your breath. So a focused attention. Meditation always has a neutral anchor, it could be your breath, that could be a word, it could be a part of your body, breath tends to be the easiest because your breath is always there. By simply counting your breaths, you’re bringing yourself back to a neutral anchor. You’re taking your mind out of your wandering thoughts into a place that is neutral and unintentional. Because most of us spend our life just wandering in our thoughts. Most of us just spend our life with the mind with thinking that just keeps going and we assume it’s supposed to be that way. But when you actually start a meditation practice, and recognize that you can identify when you’re thinking and choose to take your mind away from there and put your attention on something else other than your thoughts. At that moment, you fundamentally change your relationship to your thinking. You fundamentally can now choose the contents of your mind. And since most of the things in our mind are negative, repetitive, not particularly helpful, when we’re able to actually have choice over the contents of our own mental space and how we attend to it, you can dramatically shift the amount of stress, negativity, anxiety etc. in your life.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, very interesting. All right, so now someone’s coming into this or like, Hey, I haven’t even started meditating at all yet. So what does meditation look like for you is it just kind of what you kind of implied earlier where you’re just bringing that anchor, bringing that focus of that anchor back to the breath. And you’re just focusing on that, while you breathe in and out throughout the nose is that pretty much it to keep it simple for the listeners?

Ariel Garten: Totally. So that is the basis of a focused attention meditation, there are lots of different forms of meditation of focused attention is the most common. And what you’re simply doing is you’re putting your attention on your breath, your mind will eventually have a thought, because all of us have thoughts, it’s okay, you then notice that you have that thought, and instead of following the thought and thinking about your grocery list, or your husband, or whatever, you choose to say, Nope, I’m gonna let that thought Go and bring my attention elsewhere. Other than my thinking, I’m going to bring my attention back to my breath. And you just do this very simple activity over and over again. And the simple activity triggers those profound results, by the fact that you are actually now shifting the relationship to your own mind.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting, okay. And so it’s okay, you shouldn’t beat yourself up, if your thoughts go off, just kind of recenter it back, be the observer of that, like, there should be no shame or any of that kind of feeling. If you can’t quite do it, or you can’t quite stick on it.

Ariel Garten: Exactly. None of us are good at meditation at the beginning, or even halfway through or even at the end. You know, we all have thoughts, and that’s okay. You’re not trying to get rid of your thoughts. You’re trying to make yourself aware of them and increase the choice about what you do with those thoughts.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay. All right, interesting. So what’s the minimum dose to get some benefits? So if someone’s coming in is five minutes enough? Like what what do you recommend as a beginner to kind of see some benefit, but make the make the step to commit? Pretty easy?

Ariel Garten: Yeah, so with studies with news, we’ve looked at 10 minutes of meditation per day, and at 10 minutes of meditation, over six weeks, in trial studies, we’ve been able to see improvements in your relationship to your body, so less self reported, headache, nausea, etc, you’ve been able to see improvement in cognitive function as measured by the script task and go nogo tasks, improvement and inhibition, and obviously, a decrease in stress and improvement in calm. Okay, so in a lot of the studies in the literature, they look at 20 minutes a day, but 20 minutes a day is a lot to meditate for a novice. So the best amount of for you to meditate right now, if you’ve never meditated is whatever amount you can bear it for initially. That could be three minutes, that could be five minutes, you just want to start and try to do it consistently. Just five-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Five minutes be done twice a day?

Ariel Garten: Absolutely. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay. All right, cool. And what’s the goal wavelength that we want our brain to be in during this meditation state.

Ariel Garten: So there’s, as I said, the old school way was to look at a goal wavelength. Now it’s no longer so much about the goal wavelength, it is about the state that you are in, and our brains are much more complicated than simply being an alpha or simply being in beta. Okay, what we see when you meditate is a significant increase in alpha activity. And also sometimes an increase in beta coherence. When you it’s not so just as simple as alpha, because alpha peak frequency changes as you age, okay, so when you’re young, you have the most amount of alpha at around 10 and a half hertz, let’s say, quite fast. As you age, your alpha peak, frequency slows down. So your alpha peak might be at 11 hertz, 12 hertz. And so as you engage in meditation practice, some of what might you might be looking to do is both to increase your alpha activity, and potentially to increase your alpha, decrease your alpha frequency to a faster wave. So it’s, it’s a lot more complicated once you start looking at the nuance of it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, all right, got it. And then what’s our active wavelength state when we’re just totally alert, doing stuff and working throughout the day?

Ariel Garten: Again, hard to say, when you’re active and engaged, you tend to be in beta waves when you’re thinking, but being in flow has a slightly different brainwave characteristic. And we also have different brain waves that we emit from different parts of our head. Okay, so you know, high, high, theta frontal midline, is going to be associated with really high attention, but high data from another part of your brain is also associated with mind wandering and ADHD. You know, it’s nuanced.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, got it. That makes sense. And so how is the device grabbing all this Intel? So is it I know it’s a device you put I think you guys have a Bluetooth connection or Bluetooth connection now. Correct?

Ariel Garten: Yep. So it is four channels of eg data. So it kind of slips on just like a pair of glasses. For those of you looking at the YouTube you can see the device now.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Video guys, if you’re listening on the podcast, we’ll put the YouTube link below if you want to see the actual demo.

Ariel Garten: Yep. Or you can go to choosemuse.com/welcome. We also have videos there. That shows you what the device looks like. And so there’s two channels of eg data on the forehead and two behind the ears. And so that’s enough to track your brainwaves associated with focused attention versus mind wandering. And then that data sent to your smartphone or tablet where it interprets your brain activity. And lets you know, when you’re in the meditation zone and when you’re not. So you’re getting this beautiful guided feedback during your meditation. And then after the fact you see data, charts, graphs, scores, things that actually show you moment to moment what your brain was doing, and let you see your improvement session on session.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, that’s really cool. And now when you’re doing the muse, you have the device on. Is there any concern at all from you with the Bluetooth radiation that that’s connecting the headset to the to the phone or the smart device?

Ariel Garten: So the Bluetooth antenna faces outwards? So the radiation is going out towards your phone? It’s okay, low energy. So I mean, the amount of radiation that’s coming off there is infantile asmall, relative to even having your phone on the table. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, good. That’s good. Excellent. All right. So we have this device on right we’re utilizing it. What do you notice as correlation with a device meaning like if I’m eating diet changes, certain supplementation? I’ve noticed some patients of mine that have done the Muse device before and they’ve done magnesium and l theanine and different nutrients they’ve noticed, improve Muse scores, what associations have you guys made just on your own or clinically in practice with your patients?

Ariel Garten: Oh, that’s a great question. Nobody’s ever asked me that. That’s super cool. Definitely, we notice when people start to meditate, they start to improve more habits in their life. So this is actually something that you see in the meditation literature that when somebody starts a meditation practice, it then becomes easier to adhere to the other things that you’re trying to do. Because you become more mindful, and you become more intentional. So you know, the the suggestion there is that you’re then more likely to take your supplements, you’re then more likely to help, you know, improve your sleep patterns. One of the things that we see when people start musing is that they report better sleep, and that they use Muse before they go to bed in order to improve their sleep. And so I we haven’t actually looked at what are the things that make your meditation better, but we’ve looked a fair amount at what are the things that when you meditate, also seem to be getting better in your life and in your health, and got their vast.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it. So you’re looking at Muse and then the effect benefits of it versus hey, these things over here may actually help make that Muse session better.

Ariel Garten: Yeah, and we have a number of studies running. So there have been over 200 published papers using Muse both as a clinical grade eg and a meditation tool. And the Mayo Clinic recently ran a study with breast cancer patients awaiting surgery. And they saw that using Muse through their surgery process was able to decrease the stress of surgery, improve their fatigue and quality of life. And now Mayo Clinic is looking at this relative to breast cancer patients going through chemotherapy, because they’re interested in understanding the impact of meditation with different forms of other interventions, be it surgery, chemotherapy, etc. And they’re also looking at a number of other disease states and studies using news to see how meditating with news can improve the outcome of those states.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool. So what was your experience like with other neurofeedback devices? While you were a clinician seeing patients? We did you have a lot of experience with those devices? And then did you feel like Ah, this could be better, or we need to make something more portable for patients? What was your experience like with that early technology? And then how did it morph with the newer one?

Ariel Garten: So as a clinician, I didn’t use neurofeedback devices, but I had experience with biofeedback devices, and definitely felt that they gave interesting information, but that they didn’t actually give information about the brain. You know, they might tell you what your heart rate is doing, what your galvanic skin response is, but all of those are downstream effects of what war probably was initiated in your own mind. You know, the the anxious thoughts, the triggers that were mental that then ramp the body that then ramped the mind in this feed forward way. So, you know, we saw that there was a great opportunity. It was really at the beginning of the tracking movement, where you had wearables that track your sleep and your steps, but absolutely nothing that tracked your brain. And so we were able to develop Muse as an eg that would track your brain during meditation. And then since then, we’ve added more biofeedback methodologies to the same device. So in the Muse to you have eg degree feedback on your brain, there’s accelerometers and gyroscopes give you feedback on your body, there’s a breath sensor so you can get feedback on your breath rate and train yourself for different breathing exercises. There’s a PPG sensor to track your heart rate. And so you can actually hear the beating of your heart like the beating of a drum and learn to tune your interoception your understanding of your own internal state, and to know when your heart is increasing and decreasing can help you train your heart rate variability. So we’ve you know, pilot On a whole bunch of biofeedback methodologies on top of the neurofeedback as we’ve been on the path of creating and releasing news over the last six years.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Cool. So biofeedback would be more things related to heart rate breathing or neurofeedback is more biofeedback, specific to the brain wavelength, that kind of stuff. Okay, good. That makes sense. How does this correlate to like devices that are HRV heart rate variability, which a lot of people like the M wave devices that kind of connect heart connection to the brain and that coherent state of coherence we hear of that helps with with parasympathetic kind of repair and stress reduction. How does that? How do they connect? Is there a connection at all?

Ariel Garten: I can talk about that a little. It’s a cool question. So when you’re looking at your HRV, most people don’t understand what it is. So when you breathe in, your heart rate increases. As you breathe out, your heart rate decreases, this pattern is called your sinusoidal arrhythmia. And what your HRV is, is the difference between the fastest heartbeat on your intake and your slowest heartbeat on your exhale. So that’s why extended exhales actually make you more relaxed, because your heart rate is slowing more and more and more throughout the course of your exhale. And so an extended exhale is actually going to increase your heart rate variability. Now, when you’re super stressed, you have a very shallow change between your increase and your decrease of your heart, you’re probably breathing shallowly and your heart rate is going in parallel. So when you’re super stressed, you just see like a tiny wiggly line for your heart rate variability. When you’re relaxed, you have a great increase in decrease a great like up and down a nice, beautiful sinusoidal wave that goes with your HRV. And so that’s how you see the increase in your HRV. When you’re relaxed. In terms of the correlation with meditation, as you do the breathing through your meditation and relax your body and take your mind away from stressful thoughts. You are typically inherently increasing your heart rate variability, the correlation is not perfect one to one. But as you start to relax the mind and the body relaxes through deep breathing, you also see a beautiful change and shift in your HRV. And when you look at long term correlations for HRV, you see that people who are depressed for example, have very low HRV. And people who are not depressed and unhealthy states have an increase in HRV. So the kinds of effects you get with meditation also parallel the kinds of things you might see in somebody’s HRV.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s awesome. Is that a device? Or is that a biofeedback tool that you may add to the Muse at some point.

Ariel Garten: Um, so with the existing Muse Muse to and are new and Muse as you’re able to see a graph of your heart rate. So you can actually see your heartbeats like the increase in the decrease, you can visually see your HRV, we don’t give you an HRV calculation, because there’s actually a little bit of a controversy in the scientific field around how accurate instantaneous HRV is. So the pure science says that you need long term calculations of somebody’s heart rate in order to really get their HRV. So we’ve steered away from a specific HRV calculation, but you can see it on the graph like you can see actually what’s going on in your heart. And it’s quite amazing. You can see when your HRV is good, and when it’s short.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool, what other little kind of nuances with the device you can share with us that could be could apply to improve our health on top of what you already mentioned so far.

Ariel Garten: Sure. So we have a new device that just came out Muse s, and for those of you watching the video, it is right here. It is a soft, comfortable form factor, and the module just pops off, you can watch the band. And we made it specifically for people who want to track their brain overnight and help them to fall asleep. So we found a lot of people were using us to help them fall asleep. And but you’d have to take your Muse device off when you fell asleep. So we made Muse s super comfy, so you can just fall asleep with it on. And we give you these beautiful things called sleep journeys, guided sleep journeys, they’re guided meditations that lull you into sleep. And you also get a soundtrack that’s actually built from your body that’s designed to entrain you into sleep faster. So you might hear the beating of your heart like the chirping of crickets and the soundscape. Or the movements of your body like the lapping of waves, you’re literally hearing your own body. And then what we do is as you start to get into a rhythm and slow down a little bit, we actually slow down the soundtrack in a way that’s designed to train you to fall asleep faster. And so it’s a super beautiful experience. And then towards the end of this year, we’re releasing comprehensive eg sleep tracking. So you’ll be able to see all sorts of details about your night’s sleep even you know coffee details like the amount of sleep spindles you had.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s really cool. I think anytime you’re trying to teach someone to develop a new habit, especially when they don’t have a lot of confidence, it’s important to have a coach or someone to kind of pat them on the back or give them encouragement that they’re doing the right thing or, or feedback after doing the wrong thing. And I think the benefit of this device, it really provides that little bit of a meditation coach over your shoulder to give you a pat in the back or give you feedback if you’re not on the right track. So I think it’s really beneficial. Because if people can can do it and feel confident about it, they’re more likely to make it part of their kind of day in day out habits.

Ariel Garten: Absolutely. That’s literally why we built this, whether you’re somebody who’s never meditated before, and is just like what’s going on, or you’re an expert meditator who wants more insight into your process. This is a device that’s literally like a little coach or guru inside your head, encouraging you showing you what’s going on giving you your feedback, so that you can know when you can improve.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Cool. So how does this work? So you put the device on? Is there any way you can do it while we’re on live on the podcast here?

Ariel Garten: Not while holding my microphone simultaneously.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’d be amazing. 

Ariel Garten: So so this is the Muse here. It slips on. Great, it then would connect to the app on my phone. So here is I don’t think you can see there’s too much glare right there. There you go. There’s the Muse app. And so inside, that’s my notification that I have new content available. Inside the Muse app, you have meditations for the mind. And there you can set the length of time that you’d like to meditate for the soundscape you’d like to use what you’d like guidance or not. We also have meditations for the heart, where you’re hearing the heart like the beating of the drum, you can actually see your own heart rate variability and what it’s doing more meditations for the breath for the body. We have an entire section of guided content here. Let me open that for you. Where we have literally hundreds of meditations for stress, anxiety sleep, we say if you’ve got a problem in your life, we’ve got a meditation for that. So whether it’s performance, workplace, etc you can go in there and really find the thing that you’re trying to work on or is bothering you and get a meditation and guidance and insight to help you in that process. With or without your Muse.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I love it. I totally love it. I’m really excited to try this out get my own device go and that’s awesome. We’ll put a link here for the listeners choosemuse.com/welcome, choosemuse.com/welcome. And the discount code will be welcome 10 we’ll put the links below. So if you guys are driving and you’re active, we’ll put that below so you can access the later areas or anything else you want to leave the listeners with right now.

Ariel Garten: Really the understanding that if you’ve tried meditation before, and you’re like, I don’t know, I’m not good at it, whatever. Put all of that behind you because literally anyone can meditate. It’s not about whether you’re good at it. Whether you feel like you did it well or not. None of that matters. Meditation is just a process that you practice a little bit every day. And when you do it you will start to see the fruits and the benefits in your life.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it is there anywhere else people can get more information about you or the device.

Ariel Garten: At choosemuse.com/welcome. There’s lots of information about the device, the neuroscience behind it and more.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Awesome. Ariel, thank you so much for being part of the podcast.

Ariel Garten: My sincere pleasure. Thank you.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Thank you.


References:

https://justinhealth.com/

https://www.evanbrand.com/

https://justinhealth.com/muse

Audio Podcast:

https://justinhealth.libsyn.com/meditation-using-the-muse-device-with-ariel-garten-podcast-304

Can Functional Medicine Manage Headaches? | Podcast #301

In this podcast, together with Evan Brand, we’re going to be talking about functional solutions to headaches. We’ll be looking deeper into what we can do to headache issues. 

Our diet can be the first one to consider and ergonomics to keep our body structures relaxed and align, therefore, maintaining our good posture. But how can these factors connected to headaches? Since many people are experiencing headaches, let’s talk about the things we can work on before we go straight to taking medications. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

On this episode, we cover:

0:59      Why Headaches Occur

4:27      Diets and Supplements

13:11    Possible Root Causes

18:52    Food Allergies

24:55    On Nutrition and Blood Sugar, Dehydration   

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Youtube-icon

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey guys, it’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani here. I am with Evan brand. Today we’re going to be talking about functional medicine solutions for headaches. Evan, what’s happening, man? How you doing?

Evan Brand: I’m doing really well, we were looking through some little papers here on headaches is a big problem. I remember when I was actually working out of a chiropractor’s office, which feels like a long time ago, and it was a pretty long time ago, there were so many people that would come in there, and they’d have headaches, and the chiropractor would lay the patient down on the table, and he’d do the adjustment and they’d say, Oh, my God, I feel better. But then guess what, they came back next week for the same adjustment for the same headache. And this guy never got to the root cause and then when I started bringing just simple nutritional strategies into the clinic, all of a sudden the people that need the adjustment every week for the headache anymore, and of course, that quickly affected his his bottom line, and he’s like, Hey, stop getting my people off gluten. You’re fixing their headaches, and I thought, Well, isn’t that the goal of what we’re doing here? So now funny little backstory on headaches for me. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It totally I mean, there’s definitely a mechanical structural aspect to headaches. So if the joints in the spine aren’t moving properly, if there’s a subluxation, or a fixation, they’re just not good movement. That can be a problem, right? Especially like if the, the Atlas that c one and C two aren’t moving properly, because your head sits on top of that, that can create a lot of neurological imbalances and muscular imbalances, of course, and then just people sitting all day, right, what does that do, that’s going to just create this forward head posture, and that takes these muscles here and makes them really tight. And then you have a lot of these muscles, they can create trigger point pain referral, up the side of the neck, so like trigger points in the SEM, this muscle here, the sternocleidomastoid, or the upper trapezius, or the give us plenty of capitas muscles in the back that go up and that hit right in the back of the occiput there. These muscles get tight or they have trigger points they can cause referral into the face so you have subluxation joint issues, and then those can cause neurological disturbances. And blood flow issues. And then of course all the trigger point referral from the muscle. So good chiropractic care can be helpful on the structural side. Ideally, you want a chiropractor that one can either do some kind of myofascial release or active release therapy, some kind of a soft tissue or refer out for it. And then also taking a look at the postural stuff like you mentioned, like making sure like I’m at a stand right now so I can stand half my day. I have a really good chair that has really good lumbar and cervical support. So you want to make sure postural is good. You can do good exercises like the foundation training. Eric Goodman does that he does a lot of these the founder exercises like this, I love-

Evan Brand: Cobra training is a game changer for the back. People that are on audio that they’re not seeing him the founder pose is pretty cool. You basically put your arms up like you’re praying to the sun Gods above your head and then you end up bending over and then you open your chest up and then you kind of stand up. It’s a very, very good. Oh, it feels great. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, basically, it’s just putting stress on that whole posterior chain and working that whole post. exterior side together in unity. So, some structural standpoint soft tissue, make sure joints are moving properly. And then of course, look at the trigger point referral, the adhesions. The problem with chronic muscle pain is you have poor movement, poor movement in the joints means poor communication to the brain. You have lots of postural disturbances and people sitting all day. And if you sit, invest in a good desk, a good good desk as well as a good chair, spend a couple hundred bucks, get a really good chair that has cervical and lumbar support. That’s huge. Don’t don’t get a cheap thing like that. And then also soft tissue chiropractic, and then good exercise support to really make sure that whole posterior chain is working well. 

Evan Brand: So you’re saying the the experience I was witnessing where the chiropractor was adjusting someone that could have been legit in terms of the therapy meaning if someone was sitting on a terrible chair all week, every week they come in Friday for their headache adjustment. The headache goes away for the weekend, and they’re back next week for the headache you’re saying yeah, look Gently that could have been a structural postural thing that he was addressing. But then at the end of the day, maybe it was the the diet piece. Like I mentioned, even just simply getting a lot of these patients off gluten, they noticed that they only had to come in every two weeks or every three weeks. So is it would you then say that the the food allergens were contributing to increased inflammation, maybe triggering these nerves to be more sensitive? Or what do you think the diet? How would that link into the structural components? 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, so the diet is two things right? The diet one increases an environment of inflammation, the more inflamed you get the the the the least amount of blood flow, less blood flow, you get to the muscles, less blood flow, you get to the nerve, so there’s going to be less communication, right? It’s like, it’s like you’re on a microphone and you start to get in your static, right and you start getting static. It’s kind of like that. So if we have a lot of inflammation, what starts to happen is the muscles start becoming more less pliable, more like beef jerky, versus soft and supple. And then that affects the nerves as well because the more inflammation there is that’s going to affect nerve communication. And then of course, the more inflammation there is. And if we have bad posture we don’t move, then the joints can become a little bit stuck, and maybe out of a line or subluxated. So it can aid to the inflammation, which then makes it harder for the muscles to work, thus harder for the joints to work and the nerves to work. That’s number one. And then number two things like gluten have shown to actually decrease blood flow to the brain to the frontal cortex. So you have blood flow up the garden hoses on the side of your neck called the carotid artery. And there’s studies on this talking about gluten decreasing blood flow and and creating inflammation in the brain. So one, it’s going to do it via structural mechanisms of the nerves and muscles and joints. From an inflammation standpoint, structural to it’s going to affect blood flow, and drive up inflammation to the brain which then can create more neurological activation, immune activation in the brain, which can create symptoms. Have head pain there too. 

Evan Brand: So if you want to be smarter and make better decisions, make sure you’re not eating gluten. That sounds pretty convincing to me. Also, let’s get into the nutrient deficiency piece. If you’re eating a meal, let’s say you’re eating pasta and chicken, you’re probably not going to be getting much magnesium. And you’re probably not going to be getting many B vitamins that are going to be essential. Magnesium is probably the most famous mineral for headaches and muscle cramps and things like that. And we could pull it up, but it’s very easy to find in the literature, the link between magnesium deficiency and headaches and of course, the muscle cramping too. So, I mean, that’s an easy one to from the diet perspective. It’s not just the inflammation piece, it’s the absence of the nutrition that you need to help, you know, fuel these these pathways and then also what about like fatty acids? So you know, I remember several people were all we did is give them a high dose omega three couple grams a day and their headaches were gone, just based on adding in some omegas. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, so there’s a couple other components with headaches, right? So of course, like you’re just highlighting nutrients like your brain needs certain nutrients to run and function. So if you look at a lot of these migraine, these natural migraine supplements, you’ll see a couple of common things. You’ll see like B vitamins, especially like nice and in there, you’ll see things like magnesium in there, you’ll see B six in there, these are really important things. Also koku 10s very important for headaches and migraines. So just from a nutrient standpoint, the more nutrient dense anti inflammatory low toxin your foods are, the more these nutrients are going to be present. Okay. And the other component is, the more refined and processed your foods are usually there’s gonna be okay and then also the fat start fats are also anti inflammatory. So remember, inflammation affects the muscles, the nerves, the joints, and the more of an anti inflammatory environment you create with good fats like you just highlighted, that’s going to help. And the other component is blood sugar. So the more poor diet is, usually there’s more processed food, you’re lacking those nutrients but you’re also typically eating more processed refined carbohydrates and junky fats, which causes your blood sugar to go up and down. And these ebbs and flows of blood sugar, especially on the way down, can really create headache issues. So this reactive hypoglycemia kind of blood sugar issue response can create surges of adrenaline and cortisol and those things can definitely create headaches too.

Evan Brand: Yeah, and that could be it could be shakiness, right. It could be irritability, there could be some mood changes, there could be possibly fuzzy thinking, you know, from a cognitive perspective, too. So people may not connect the dots like oh, I had oatmeal and a banana for breakfast. And now here it is. 10am Three hours later. My blood sugar’s crashing. Not only am I irritable and anxious, but all of a sudden I’m getting a headache. What is it? Is it the fluorescent lights in my cubicle at the office? Which Yes, it could be fluorescent lighting is a big trigger for headaches. So it could be some environmental cause too. Is it the moldy office building you’re sitting in is causing the headache maybe? Or is it simply just a blood sugar crashing and it could be all of it. So that’s the thing that you and I do really a good job at is we try to look at all the variables because if you go to like a conventional doc for a headache, maybe they give you an ibuprofen recommendation, or if it’s bad enough, they’ll give you some type of prescription medication, if it’s to the migraine level, like a topamax or something like that. And then you get stuck on these medications. There’s not really any sort of root cause game plan. But if they referred you out to possibly an allergist, if they thought that your headaches were from an allergy problem, the allergist is likely going to recommend some over the counter anti histamine or some type of drug like that or possibly a prescription. And once again, they’re not addressing any of the root cause stuff and you could have gone to several practitioners and no one brought up magnesium deficiency. No one brought up vitamin D, which is critical. No one brought up getting off gluten, getting off grains, getting rid of potentially nuts and seeds if you have histamine type issues. So it’s just amazing how far you could go down the conventional rabbit hole with this issue and still not even get close to the root cause. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, that’s the hard part. Like any Functional Medicine world everything’s like three dimensional right? So you have medications that are like anti inflammatory you have SSRI medications that are affecting serotonin or dopamine or adrenaline. I’ve had really great success using amino acids for headaches too. Now, why are there amino acid deficiencies? Usually it’s a combination of stress burning up serotonin, and dopamine, or it’s a combination of not breaking down and digesting good amino acids, right? So you can see amino acids play a very powerful role. I think you also see it with DLP as well. And headaches. These are all amino acids and if we have poor digestion, and we have poor nutrition to begin with, we got one deficiency coming in, but we also have a deficiency on being able to digest assimilate and utilize these nutrients as well. 

Evan Brand: Yeah, so you’re typically going to be using like a complex right, you’re probably not going to spot tree where you’re going to come in with like just the LPA by itself. You may come in with like a, maybe a good quality protein or like collagen or some type of amino acid blend. When you’re talking about amino is correct? 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, it depends. So if I have organic acid testing showing serotonin and dopamine is off, we may spot those with specific amino acids. And then of course, you got to have B six there with that and those other nutrients in the background. So, of course, we’re going to be doing a good quality multi, and then we’ll be hitting those amino acids up for sure, especially if we have lab data on it. But we’ll be like, we’re never going to go all in on one thing, right? We’re going to do a good history. And then we’re going to make recommendations. Maybe there’s some structural stuff we got to look at, maybe there’s some diet stuff we got to look at, maybe there’s some supplement stuff we have to look at. And we will kind of get a plan for all three of those things going at once. If we see those issues could be active. 

Evan Brand: Yeah, what we do is so fun. It’s not just fun. It’s very effective, because as you mentioned, we’re going to be looking at organic acids testing to try to investigate this issue. We may be looking at stool testing, too, because I know you and I both seen countless times where we’ll see gut inflammation, and that may manifest in terms of headaches too. So gut inflammation is not just Hey, my gut feeling inflamed or irritated? It could be the whole system. You could have headaches, you could have increased fatigue, you could have increased joint pain, and depending on what kind of infections you have, whether it’s I know when I had parasites and H. pylori, I had headaches. Now, what was the mechanism? Well, hard to say. But I would say one mechanism was my digestion was terrible. I had diarrhea, I, you know, you could diagnose me with IBS. That’s what the conventional doctor actually said was, Hey, this is just IBS. Of course, that doesn’t address the infection. So I think that’s one other thing that we should bring up is that if the diet style then we’ve got someone listening saying, hey, look, I’m doing paleo or autoimmune paleo or I’m doing magnesium supplements. My vitamin D is good. I’m off gluten. Why do I still have headaches? Well, you know, then I would look at the gut and then I would look at some of these environmental causes as well because we do know the toxins of various types whether it’s mercury, cadmium, aluminum, any kind of heavy metals, those can affect the brain. Those can affect headaches, mold, toxin, mycotoxins lines. co-infections them opening up a lot of can of worms here, but this is what we do, we try to get all of the potential puzzle pieces and then arrange those in the right order to get you feeling better. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally, totally 100% agree. So you got to look at everything kind of get to the roots. The root cause for sure. So very important. So in regards to different headaches, of course, we have like cluster headaches, we have regular headaches, which kind of you know, cause pain in the head, upper neck. Of course we have migraines, which are more going to be extremely painful headaches, right? Usually there’s gonna be more intense, there’s gonna be kind of that open book kind of sensation, maybe you’ll have a little bit of an aura, there’ll be some eye issues more intense. Obviously with women this can be a big issue when there’s ebbs and flows and estrogen in your cycle. Or you can see it premenstrual Lee, especially when there’s a big premature drop and progesterone or inadequate levels of progesterone. You can see it hormonally. So when you have headaches too, if you’re a female listening, make sure you see if you time it up in your cycle if it’s happening at around simulation, we’re at a specific time. Your cycle. Typically it’s gonna be preventively right before you bleed or right at around menstruation there’s probably ebbs and flows with the hormone. So, you know, we may use herbs to help modulate the upstream signaling from the brain to the ovaries. And we may use some specific hormones that kind of buffer out the ebbs and flows. And then of course, we’re trying to get the adrenals and the HPA g t access all better. So those symptoms are going to be less prevalent.

Evan Brand: Yeah, and you’re saying this could be related to the progesterone dropping too much or prematurely that would also then assume that that’s an estrogen dominant situation going on too, right. So maybe something like calcium D glucerate, which we use, not only for mycotoxins and other things that could also help with the hormonal piece and therefore potentially help with headaches. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep, that’s correct. 

Evan Brand: Glutathione’s have been very helpful for me. I don’t want to divert too quickly away from the hormonal thing because I think you brought up a big smoking gun for a lot of women. But you know, Glutathione did a lot of good for me when I first was dealing with headaches and it related to toxicity, just two to 300 milligrams a day, and it would significantly help However, if you do too much I know you remember that night I called you I’m like, Hey, I took a double dose of glutathione My head is frickin killing me remember that? Yeah, I was just experimenting and and I messed up and I mobilized too many toxins. So that could be something to talk with your practitioner about as well as, Hey, are you doing binders? Are you doing some type of collation? Are you doing Glutathione because if you’re pushing too much out, that can also overwhelm this detox system, and it’ll result as a headache.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep. 100%. I don’t love like classifying a lot of these headaches because, okay, whether it’s a cluster headache or attention, headache or a migraine headache, it doesn’t really tell me a lot about the root cause, right? Like someone could have a hormonal issue and could have just a general tension headache while someone else could have like kind of a migraine headache, right. And so it doesn’t tell you like a whole bunch about the root cause. So like, I just kind of when I deal with patients I kind of make a note of what’s going on, I try to connect it to things that are happening day in, day out, like meaning if we see it happen like right after a meal, we may think blood sugar. If we see it happen at things throughout the cycle, it could be if we it could be more hormonally base. If it’s just kind of random. Then I’m going to be asking about physical what’s physical stress look like in regards to posture in regards to muscle tone in regards to seeing a chiropractor in regards to what your office life like is like, when you’re sitting in a chair, like, I’ll try to connect the dots with those things. But the kind of headache you have, for me, doesn’t matter as much, but try to connect it to the onset. For me, that tends to matter a little bit. But even if we can’t really get a big connection there, I just still do all these things that I mentioned and I still get amazing results. 

Evan Brand: Yeah, that’s the fun thing is we kind of fix stuff by accident sometimes meaning we’re going to run you through our protocols and procedures to get a good workup on you and then oh Hey, by the way, look at these major deficiencies and B vitamins. Oh hey, look at these neurotransmitter imbalances. Oh hey, look at the hormones. Oh, hey, look at the gut infections. We need to fix all this and then boom, guess what? The headaches went away. Now I agree with your comment about we don’t really care about where or what the category or classification of the headache is. I would agree except for the occipital, the back of the head headaches because for me that definitely is 100% linked to bartonella which is a type of infection that you can get from fleas. So if you have cats, if you have dogs, if you’re not keeping up with their flea preventatives, and you get a flea on you, they do transmit bartonella mosquitoes, there is some talk about mosquitoes transmitting bartonella. And then, of course, most infamous, are ticks transmitting bartonella. And I can tell you on the back of the head, man, it gets really tender. Unfortunately, I’ve had a lot of issues of bartonella. And I will notice just it’s it’s tender back there and I haven’t really linked it to to anything else. No, maybe it’s structural. Maybe I’m talking to you, right Now and I’m kind of turtle heading forward by accident to make sure I’m talking into the microphone. But I think, I think part nail is definitely a big back of the head. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, it’s good to know, it’s good to know that’s good to have that history. I mean, you could have back of the head issues, though just from, you know, forehead posture, and then these muscles, these capitas muscles that connect in the back could also get overly tight as well, just from poor posture. So it’s good, it’s good to kind of look at everything right? And then who knows, right? It’s kind of like with gluten, when you have an infection like that it can drive more inflammation, when there’s more inflammation, you’re going to have less blood flow to the muscles, the muscles are going to be less pliable, and they’re more easy to get, you know, taut and tender fibers and develop trigger points because of the inflammation. So everything’s connected, but I think it’s good. You know, it’s something that you add to like kind of your differential diagnosis as a clinician. Okay, good back of the habit. We’ll keep an eye out for co infections. We’ll keep an eye out for these underlying issues as well. I get smart. 

Evan Brand: Do you want to talk about any of the other food allergies I mean, we’ve seen people with like Nightshade issues where peppers tomatoes could cause some issues, potentially headaches. What about dairy? Do you want to talk on those at all? 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I mean, I see dairy, I see potential nuts and seeds. I see all those things as as a potential driver. It’s unbelievable. Because like having done you know, this job for over a decade and seeing thousands of patients, you have common things that are just like the most common like gluten and dairy right? And blood sugar issues been there. Sometimes there’s just weird things like, okay, eggs, eggs cause a problem. While eggs are a really awesome kind of Paleo Food. You know, it’s sucks that you can’t eat eggs. But eggs are a great food. And that’s crazy that that’s causing your headache. Wow. Okay, so we’ll just keep an eye on that. That’s why, you know, we have a pretty strict elimination diet that we follow in the beginning just to rule out those variables. Because even things that I want that patient to be able to consume, and I’m like, and I wish I could have eggs, but sometimes they can’t. And that can get better over time as we heal the gut. And as the immune system gets better, and the gut gets better, so even that can still be healed over time for sure. 

Evan Brand: Yeah, I don’t know. I don’t know if you remember you and I talking about this, but For a while I was doing avocados like every single day. And then all of a sudden I just had major pressure in my temples. I mean, it was like my head was being squeezed in a vise I thought, oh my god, what is this? So I just went through the diet and started tracking things and discovered it was avocado. So I think I was just doing too much histamine. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, you have you’ve tired mean stuffing is like chocolates and wines and cheese, right? The tire mean kind of amino acid compound can drive headaches in some people as well. Right? And so that’s where it’s nice to do that kind of investigation. Hey, is it connected to avocados? Is that a food allergy thing? Is it a histamine thing? Right? Could it be a histamine, right? We know headaches. You would think there’s a lot of constriction in the brain vessels, right? with headaches. It’s actually the opposite. There’s a lot of vezo dilation in the brain vessels and things like histamine actually Dr. Faisal dilation that’s why like when you bump your elbow, right, well, there’s a histamine immune response happening Well, does your elbow become more swelled or less well when you bump it or more swelling or Why is that? Because histamine is actually a strong vezo dilator. It opens things up to help get those immune cells in there to go after the inflammation. So, you know, if we see things like histamine being a driving factor, we’ll keep an eye on that. I mean that that’s important to look at. Anything else you want to add about there? 

Evan Brand: Yeah, let me comment on that. So that would explain why. Back in the day when my wife and I first got together, she had major, major headaches, you know, and we were trying to track it through the diet. And at the time, she was using the excedrin which was that pain medication with the caffeine? 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep, that cause constriction. 

Evan Brand: And that was the only thing that helped her with the headache. And then Luckily, she finally listened to me and we got her off gluten and got her diet dialed in and got her got taken care of and cleaned up all of her personal care products and Hooray, no more headaches. So.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. So that’s a big thing. So if you’re doing caffeine and you have a headache, could it help? Yes, definitely could help may not be your root cause and it may be A palliative thing, right? But definitely can help.

Evan Brand: On withdrawals too right caffeine withdrawals if you were on a bunch and then tried to get off caffeine that would also cause kind of a rebound headache as well. And then what about blood pressure? For a while, you know, I was noticing blood pressure spikes, and that was directly linked to headaches. I mean, that’s an easy one. If you’re walking around with 145 over 95 or higher as your as your blood pressure and you’re in kind of a stage one or stage two hypertension, that’s a big, big thing. And that’s easy, low hanging fruit to address as long as you can find the root cause of it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. Yep. So that’s really important to look at. Also, um, just minerals like hydration and minerals are a big thing. I did a big long fast I fasted for two days, and when I was about 36 hours into it, I really had a strong headache like really bad headache. I was doing minerals, I was doing hydration. I was even testing my blood sugar like my blood sugar was around 80 By the way, but I personally Believe I felt an inner tremble and inner bit of jitteriness, so I believe my blood sugar was lifted to 80 by adrenaline and cortisol. So that’s the thing like fasting could create a blood sugar issue may not show on it like I got my keto Mojo, like meter right here. So I was like testing my blood sugar and I’m sitting around at like, that’s not like 60 or 50 like, and I even tested my ketones. My ketones were like around point five to one millimoles so that- 

Evan Brand: -was that was that where you would expect to be or the ketones lower indicating that the body with the stress response kind of kick you out or prevented you from being in a deeper? 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think it kicked me out a little bit because I’m typically at about point five anyway without fasting. So and I tested you know, I tested every now and then I was at point 5.7 last week. Now I keep a very low carb high fat breakfast, right? And I’m typically around point five 2.7 and I was over a day in and I was around point five 2.7 I didn’t see a huge Drop. Now, in two days, I dropped six pounds of weight just from water and not having any anything on my body. So I was losing a lot of weight on that side of the fence. But in general, fasting could potentially be a blood sugar stressor, even if it doesn’t show up on the meter. Because you could have other hormones picking it up. Yes, and adrenaline and then that could potentially cause more issues. neurologically, 

Evan Brand: That’s a super, super good point that 99% of people don’t know. Hey, wait a second. I don’t have a blood sugar problem. But you didn’t see it. You didn’t see that on paper unless you had like a continuous monitor. Right? And then it crashed and then you saw the spike later. That would have been interesting. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And I broke my fast with bacon and eggs and within one to two hours, headache gone. 

Evan Brand: Cool. So what do you think I will what what was the magic remedy and the bacon and eggs that cured the headache?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, I mean, it’s gonna be nutrition and blood sugar. Yeah. I mean, it’s just stress response if your body isn’t getting nutrition for two days, like actual nutrients, your body’s gonna be like what’s going on here. So there’s gonna be a stress response there, especially when I’m used to having a nutrient dense diet. So just getting lots of good fats, lots of good proteins in there. Just stabilize things out. So that’s why if you’re going too fast, you know, if you’re going to do a fast also, I worked for two days when I fast it. So I generally recommend keeping your fast on non stressful days where you can relax and chill out. That way, you’re not under as much stress. And you’re not because the fast is already a stressor. So you don’t want to add more stress to that. And so ideally, finding days where they aren’t that stressful if you’re going to do a 24 or 36 or 48 hour fast, if not intermittent fast, are probably the best because then you can still get all your nutrients in like a six hour window and still have a lot of that those fasting benefits, which is probably better. It’s more it’s easier to do.

Evan Brand: Yep. And it would be nice if we could get everyone to somewhat of a stable level. have health because since fasting has become kind of a popular, I guess you’d call it a trend. I hate to call it a trend, but I guess it is. You’ve got so many people doing it as a starting place. Like they’ll go from a conventional diet and then they’ll just start doing fasting. It’s like, Ah, you’re already nutrient deprived, you really need to get like healthy with your diet first and then do it. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, this is 100%. Like, let’s say the average person is eating this many calories, right? And the nutrient levels are here. So I’m kind of making hand gestures, high amount of calories, low amount of nutrients. What’s the easiest first step here is let’s just increase the nutrients right and balance the macros. Like why are we going to cut all the calories, aka nutrients down? If they already have a lot of calories, and they don’t have a lot of nutrients, but doesn’t make sense. It’s not the low hanging fruit. Right? It’s like taking someone who has an exercise in a while and just throwing them into a CrossFit class, but gonna be overly sore, overly achy, and they’re gonna have an aversion to it in the future. 

Evan Brand: That the aversion is key because then they’ll say, Oh, my God, fasting was terrible. It’s like damn, Well, how do you? That’s kind of you got to you got to break that down for me. What do you mean? What were you eating before then? What were your stress levels? Like you said, were you working? Was this on the weekend when you weren’t stressed? What was your blood sugar? Did you did you write before you fasted? Did you do a reset cup? You’re like, I’m gonna have one last piece of cake. And then I’m going to do a three day fast. I mean, what was it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, I mean, like, my favorite kind of fast day in day out is I’ll have like a simple something kind of fat in the morning and then I won’t eat till like five or 6pm that night. And I’ll just do a little bit of bone broth at night or I in the afternoon. I like just something simple like that kind of rest my tummy for eight to 10 hours have a nice bigger dinner. So if I’m going to go out to eat, I’ll do a lot of that sometimes just so I can get my appetite up. And if I consume a little bit of extra calories at night, it’s okay because I’ll have a little more metabolic flexibility to handle it. 

Evan Brand: We’ll do a all about fasting podcast soon. If you have questions, specific concerns, experiences you want to share about those. Please if you’re watching on Doctor Justin’s YouTube channel, let us know. But we should do a whole thing on that because I think there are good ways and bad ways to do it. I think we have before but it’s always good to do to do updates on those.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% totally agree. So blood sugar stuff. nutrients, right B6, B vitamins riboflavin, niacin, thionine, herbs, ginger, feverfew, we already talked about magnesium, I think. And then of course, things like five HTP and tyrosine can be really helpful, but again, not for everyone. Those are really good things out of the gates, kokyu 10s, and other important nutrient keeping the inflammation down via some of the bad foods. We chatted about gluten and dairy and refined sugar out of the gates and then look at some of the structural components, you know, is the structural component a root cause thing, or is it or is it an association with other inflammation stuff happening hormonally or in your diet, so you got to connect the two and sometimes you may have two issues you have to address at the same time. You may need to see the chiropractor or the massage or the soft tissue or make the postural changes while you change your diet and do other things. Sometimes you have to do both. So it’s never just like a one off kind of thing. It’s always good to do both, especially if you want results faster.

Evan Brand: Yeah. Yeah, well said just a couple quick things, dehydration, I mean for all my clients out there listening that are doing binders, charcoal and seal lights and clays, whatever else. I mean, when you’re pulling out toxins, we you and I’ve said this a million times we’ll say it a million in one today the solution to pollution is dilution. So aka drink more clean, good filtered water, whether it’s a Berkey or ro with minerals, whatever you can do to get good filtered water, you got to drink, drink, drink, drink, drink, most people are chronically dehydrated. If you and I look at blood work, we’ll see this all the time. And then peppermint lavender essential oils, those are easy, low hanging fruits. I’m not one of those people that thinks the essential oils are going to cure everything. However, there were times in my life where I had miserable headaches and I would do a couple drops of lavender essential oil on my temples and it would help or I would do a little bit on the wrist and breathe it in and that would help or if it was a tummy ache and headache I would do a little topically on the stomach with the peppermint and that reduce the headache. So those things can be helpful too.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% Yeah, totally appreciate that. So anyone listening to this, try to you know, grab hold of some of the simple actionable information that we kind of outlined off the bat. If this issue has been going on for a while, feel free to reach out to Evan, EvanBrand.com or Justin, got myself, Dr. J. at JustinHealth.com you’ll see scheduled links where you can reach out to both of us we are available worldwide to provide your functional medicine natural health needs. Also, if you guys enjoyed it, share it with friends and family put down below in the comments, your own experiences with headaches and what’s worked and what hasn’t worked, what things that really move the needle for you. And we really appreciate a review and iTunes review from y’all. So EvanBrand.com/iTunes, JustinHealth.com/iTunes for review. That’d be amazing. And anything else you want to leave us with? 

Evan Brand: No, that’s it. You did a great job. Thanks for the conversation. It’s always a blast and we’ll be back next week. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent chat. Give a good one. Take care. Bye.


References:

https://justinhealth.com/

https://www.evanbrand.com/

Audio Podcast:

https://justinhealth.libsyn.com/can-functional-medicine-manage-headaches-podcast-301

Hack Your Alcohol Consumption and Avoid Hangovers | Podcast #300

Whether it’s a few glasses of wine with friends, beer over sports, or a fun night out, there’s ways you can enjoy drinking yet mitigate the health consequences and skip the hangover. What are some of the consequences of drinking too much alcohol? Gut damage, issues with blood sugar levels and gut permeability, candida overgrowth, adrenal stress, and more. The big stressors of a hangover is the acetaldehyde made from the alcohol and getting the body to process it into acetic acid. The enzyme responsible for this conversion is glutathione-based, so glutathione can help clear alcohol out of your system faster, think: N-acetylcysteine (NaC), liposomal glutathione, vitamin C, milk thistle. Since these help the catalase enzyme to clear the alcohol out of your body faster, it’ll also be better for your liver. These are the kind of tips and tricks Dr. J is dishing out (and more!) today and we’re pretty sure you’ll be using them to help avoid future hangovers. Drink responsibly and be safe!

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

In this episode, we cover:

1:46      What is alcohol?

6:03      Alcohol Metabolism

15:18    Alcohol Poisoning

21:33    Blue Zones, Good and Bad choices for Alcohol

35:06   Alcohol Cravings

41:03    Different Types of Alcohol

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Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey guys, it’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani here. Today we’re going to be talking about how to hack your alcohol consumption. Again, people are out there, they’re gonna want to have a little bit of alcohol now and then maybe at the end of the week, maybe to kind of signify like, Hey, you know, the weeks over whatever it is, you’re relaxing, it’s summer, it’s fall, how can we do it in a way that’s one not gonna damage your body. But two, we can also hack the hangover, so we can do it responsibly and mitigate some of the health consequences. All right, Evan, what’s going on man? How are we doing? 

Evan Brand: All doing really well excited to dive into this thing with you read a quick article from USA today that said that since all the shutdown stuff happened, that alcohol sales, does that contribute to consumption as well? I’m sure it does. It didn’t say alcohol. Yeah. So said alcohol sales are up 27%. And this was since June. So that’s a big bump in alcohol sales and people are stressed out and I mean, you and I are working with clients. Everyday, all day people that have been laid off or furloughed or lost jobs or kids can’t go back to school or whatever else is going on with them. And so what are people going to do when they’re stressed? Well, hopefully they go meditate and go to the park, but they’re probably going to have extra alcohol too. And so we don’t want people to make themselves sick. We don’t want hangovers. We don’t want gut damage. We don’t want increased issues with blood sugar. We don’t want increased issues with gut permeability. We don’t want candida overgrowth, we don’t want all those things to happen. We don’t want adrenal stress and sleep issues that then affect energy and motivation and, and productivity. So, you know, alcohol can affect all of the body systems because of the impact on potentially blood sugar and adrenals and gut and all of it and so I think there is a way to do it smartly, which is what we’re going to dive into today. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. So, everyone talks about alcohol being a toxin, right? Well, alcohol essentially, is ethyl alcohol, and your liver has to metabolize that and break it down. So the metabolism goes like this. Alcohol, ethyl alcohol, methyl alcohol, that’s like a toxin, right? ethyl alcohol is the alcohol that we consume. That gets converted into acid aldehyde. And this enzyme here, right, this whole enzyme, it goes alcohol to acid aldehyde. And this is what alcohol dehydrogenase two right here, from alcohol to acid, aldehyde. And an acid aldehyde gets converted to a C to gas, which is basically apple cider vinegar. Okay, now acid aldehyde is the same compound that fungus or Candida actually produces. And that’s why Candida can actually make you feel a little bit drunk. Really, the big stressor. The big hangover stressor, is this acid aldehyde. Usually the body’s pretty efficient at taking alcohol and clearing it to acid out behind. It’s the acid aldehyde process that really has to go from acid aldehyde to Apple, the acetyl acetic acid right here, and we talked about this earlier. I think it was Asian descent right. Asian descent has a very, they they’re really efficient at taking alcohol and going to acid aldehyde. But they have a hard time of going acid aldehyde acetic acid. So this acid aldehyde increases, increases. And this acid aldehyde has a, let’s say histamine like effect. So high amounts of acid aldehyde can really increase that flushing kind of feeling. And so, a lot of people use the medication called Pepcid AC, which is that which is an h2 blocker. h2 blockers are an anti histamine. And what that does is anti histamines take the alcohol to acid out the high conversion they slow it down. So Asians they’re so fast at it, they increase their acid aldehyde like this acid aldehyde goes up. And so what they’re doing is they’re taking a h2 blocker to slow down the alcohol to acid aldehyde conversion again, it may help with the facial flushing and the histamine but not good on the liver because it’s creating more more that more of the alcohol is summer is basically surrounded That liver so your liver has to deal with the alcohol longer. It’s like you’re clogging up the coffee filter and it’s taking way longer to filter that out. Yep, you’re saying acid aldehyde. I think how you pronounce I think how you pronounce it is a sido. Allah cetyl alcohol. Yeah, I’ve always pronounced that as an aldehyde. I think someone where I learned about 10 years ago, they said it that way. I’ve heard it both ways. But yeah, a cetyl alcohol acetal aldehyde. So that’s going to be how it’s spelled. 

Evan Brand: Yeah, it’s a big word. And you mentioned the issue with fungal overgrowth. And we’ve seen that a lot with people. Now when we’re talking about brain fog you and I’ve done so many podcasts on cognitive function issues, brain fog, anxiety, depression, those kinds of things. So if you’re somebody who has a Candida problem, maybe we should briefly go into this. This is you if you have a Candida problem. You’re probably not a good candidate for it. Now, could you get away with a little bit here and there, maybe so but if I have clients where we see that they’ve got major brands, Fogg, they have cognitive problems, they have memory problems, they go into a room and they forget why they’re in there, they lose their keys all the time, that kind of thing. And they show up with Candida on their labs, I’m going to tell them, hey, best case scenario, the question always comes up. And what about alcohol? I say, based on what’s going on, probably wise to stay away from it for a month or two while we get your gutter under control. And then let’s add it back in later, and you know, at a small amount and see how you do so I think there are some cases where you know, you and I work with quite a lot of people that are that are quite sick, and they don’t feel very well. So in those cases, we may try to say, hey, you can hack it like we’re going to talk about today. Or maybe just stay away, let’s let’s get your gut in better shape, let’s get your liver in better shape, especially if there’s a big mold problem. I’m gonna say, Man, your liver already needs help and, or if we test their chemical profile, we see they got a ton of pesticide herbicide. It’s like, ah, I really don’t want to add any more toxins to the bucket. So I personally try to stray people away from it, but at a certain point, you know that people want to live their life and have fun and that’s one of the ways people live. in society have fun. So then we go into the hex. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. So just kind of talking about the alcohol metabolism one more time, right? We have ethanol, that’s our alcohol that goes to a seal out acetaldehyde acid aldehyde. Right? This the enzyme that’s responsible for that conversion, guess what it is? It’s catalysts. And catalyst is a glutathione dependent enzyme. So having good glue ion function helps you go alcohol ethanol, to acetyl aldehyde. That’s glue to fire independent as catalysts and then acetyl aldehyde to acetic acid or acetate, right? That’s going to be your apple cider vinegar. This is alcohol dehydrogenase to ALDH2. Okay, and so this is the enzyme A lot of people have a hard time with the Asians, they have a hard time clearing that and so the acid aldehyde goes up really high. So big things I want to highlight here, we’ll talk about it in the strategy standpoint. glutathione is good because glutathione clears the alcohol out of your system fast. So things like n acetylcysteine liposomal glutathione s acetyl glutathione, vitamin C, milk thistle, things that help increase catalyze clear the alcohol out of your body faster, that’s less stress on the liver. But then now we have this acetal aldehyde thing that has to happen next. And so typically, I’m going to I’m going to guarantee that a ldh is going to be supported and boosted via glutathione. And a lot of those nutrients some way shape or form. So I’ll try to pull that up here as well on the enzyme standpoint. Any comments on that? 

Evan Brand: Yeah, I think milk thistle is something that’s pretty cool too. I don’t have any papers that are just specifically milk those by itself. But we know milk thistle is very, very beneficial for protecting the liver. So I think if you were to take which you and I have several of our own, like a liver complex or maybe you’ve got Got some and AC milk thistle which the active ingredient is silymarin. And that helps to act as an antioxidant and an anti inflammatory in right paddock cells. And here we go, I’ve actually got something right here that the milk thistle is going to help metabolize toxic compounds lowering the damage to the liver cells in the process. So there’s a guy here Dr. Weston child who was talking about silymarin. And he said, although it’s helpful, he said it’s not a cure all. And it doesn’t reduce all the damage from drinking in excess. However, it can help heal the process once the person has stopped drinking. Bla bla bla bla bla, so a parent Apparently, the in German, Germans in Germany, apparently they’re recommending milk thistle to treat liver toxicity. So yeah, so long story short, I mean, any of the stuff we’re typically doing clinically to help the liver is is going to be beneficial and protective. Now here’s one funny thing. So the wine industry You know, it’s all about resveratrol, right? It’s like resveratrol, resveratrol wine. But, you know, according to just looking at some of these labels and the actual amount of milligrams of resveratrol, you’re getting in red wine, you would literally have to drink like 100 bottles to get the amount of resveratrol that you would get in a single pill supplement.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I know. Yeah. So a little bit. Yeah, it’s a little off there. I mean, there’s a lot of Blue Zones. These are very healthy parts of the world that live a very long time into the hundreds, you know, over 100, and they do consume some alcohol. So I don’t think alcohol should be looked at like it’s this unbelievable toxin on the body. I mean, I think there may be a mild stress to it, right? But exercise is a stress, right? So I think there’s have been a little bit of stress on the body does help with adaptation. The key is, is allowing your body to receive that stress and allow you to be able to adapt to it as efficiently as possible. Instead of it being the stressor you put in your bucket that causes your bucket to overflow. Now it’s going to be the stressor. helps make your body a little bit stronger. By just getting back here briefly, I found one article here talking about acetyl aldehyde. And it talks about the fact that cysteine and glycine again, which are the two major backbones to making gluten, what’s clewd a file and it’s a tri peptide, right? tri meaning three, glutamine, glycine. cysteine are the three amino acids in glutathione. So it talks about Long live sulfur containing bio molecules, including cysteine and glycine that incorporate acetyl aldehyde might affect cysteine, including ion homeostasis and also plays a protective role in reducing circulating acetyl aldehyde levels. Okay, this is one article called binding of acetyl aldehyde to a glutathione metabolite, so glutathione does bind up acetyl aldehyde. So we talked about an acetyl cysteine. We talked about glycine and bone broth, we are now glutamine. We also talked about things like Milk Thistle are silymarin, which are actually a glutathione recycler, so is cortisol that helps maintain the recycling of glutathione. And then of course, taking lipids, omo glutathione, itself. And then also things like charcoal, I think also have a positive effect at binding up a pseudo aldehyde as well. So look at acetyl aldehyde and charcoal, you can take binders that help you right here, a study of acetyl aldehyde absorption on activated carbons, right, which essentially activated carbons is going to be what you see with activated charcoal. We’ll talk about that in a second. 

Evan Brand: I saw that one. So here’s what you’re saying. You’re basically saying you should make a Grass Fed Whey Protein Shake that’s going to be loaded with cysteine and all that make you a grass fed protein smoothie with a shot of vodka added to it. You’re going to have a good time. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I mean, it depends on how you want to do it. Right. I think that’s there’s there’s definitely a couple of options right? So when I look at alcohol consumption, right, the first part is choosing healthier versions of alcohol. We’ll talk about that in a second. The second is how do you detoxify? So there’s a couple of mitigating effects. Alcohol is a diuretic. Some of the effects that you have on alcohol is the fact that you are decreasing ADH antidiuretic hormone from the post here pituitary. Okay. So, I hate when they do double negatives. Remember double negatives equal a positive. All right, so anti diuretic so diuretic means it’s your diuretic means it makes you pee. So it’s the anti. It’s the anti pee hormone, if you will. So essentially, it’s the anti p anti anti p hormone. So in other words, it makes you pee. It allows what’s in your body from a hydration standpoint to be released out. So that means you’re going to lose a lot of water. You’re going to lose a lot of minerals. So part of the mitigating effect of hangovers is Yeah, you have the seat. Allow the high but you’re also going to be low in minerals and low in hydration. So if you’re going to be drinking more having a Pellegrino or having a nice mineral water at your table or at your home and having a glass of mineral water in between each drink is going to be huge from a hydration standpoint and a mineral standpoint, that’s number one. Number two, you may do a binder during the drink to kind of help mitigate and bind up some of the the acid aldehyde to help bind that up. And then number two, you can add in some things that are can be protecting the liver whether it’s clear to thiam you can do NAC you can do some vitamin C, you can do some you can do some milk thistle. Those are all good options. Now I keep it very simple. I’ll do n acetylcysteine, vitamin C and activated charcoal. And then when I come home, I’ll typically do some liposomal lumify and once I get home, all right and then I’ll also really make sure the minerals are good. I’ll typically sip on something like a tub of cheese Go in between the keep my minerals up. That’s a kind of a really good way to look at it. So alcohol is a diuretic. 

Evan Brand: They need to sponsor you Topo Chico, you know, many times you flashed that Topo Chico bottle over the hundreds of episodes we’ve done they need to send you a free case or two or three.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly, exactly. No, I totally I totally agree, man. I got to reach out to him for sure. 

Evan Brand: I found I found one paper wanted to tell you this real quick. So maybe this is a study that maybe it’s been done on humans, and I just didn’t find it in PubMed, but when I found quickly was the effect of activated charcoal on ethanol blood levels in dogs. And apparently, they gave the dogs different amounts of ethanol and then they measured their blood after a dosing of charcoal. And it of course, duh. It just said that blood ethanol concentrations were significantly inhibited by activated charcoal during the first hour after administration and then blood ethanol levels are significantly lower throughout the study in the activated charcoal group. So this is what they do supposedly, this is what they do in poisoning emergencies in the hospital. Like if you go into the hospital with alcohol poisoning, supposedly they pump your stomach full of charcoal. Is that still standard practice? I’m not sure if you- 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I can tell you personally not that I was ever affected but my college roommate freshman year, yeah, I had alcohol poisoning. I had to take him to the hospital. And we went to the ER. And I watched the whole process happening. They gave me a huge glass of activated charcoal. He was just drunk off his gorge. And he was just they had him sit him up at an angle and he was just out of it. And they were just kind of feeding him. The activated charcoal right down his mouth. 

Unknown Speaker: I witnessed it myself. And then they also had them hooked up to an IV which is good, right? Because then you get the minerals in. Right and then you get the activated charcoal. Now is that worth $1,000 ER bill don’t know, I mean, you’re probably getting a $1 if of activated charcoal and then maybe a $5 IV, right? It’s quite the markup on there. So in other words, folks, if you’re listening, get your $20 bottle of activated charcoal, bring five or six capsules with you take them throughout the night, and then just get your little mineral water, right little Topo Chico sponsor right there. And then sip that throughout the night. And then this is your IV, okay, and then you get your activated charcoal, that’s going to kind of be your little binder. And I have one study right here, I’ll just kind of read the conclusion. And again, it’s amazing how researchers just do not know how to write in a way that connects with the average person. Let me read it and then I’ll translate talks about it talks about right here. This is due to the contribution of hydrogen bonding to the dispersive interaction of hydrocarbon moiety with the act of carbon pore walls after oxidation for the carbons with unaltered decreased surface area The esoteric heat of the acid aldehyde absorption is decreased. Alright, right here. This is it basically activated charcoals, which are these hydrocarbons, bind up acid aldehyde and decrease its absorption. So there’s less acid aldehyde or acetyl aldehyde in your body to be absorbed, because it’s being bound up by the activated charcoal. 

Evan Brand: Let me point out what you’re saying. Because there’s people that are, you know, 17 minutes into this and they’re going yeah, but I don’t drink alcohol. Alcohol is stupid. It’s poison. I haven’t touched alcohol in years. I’m 20 years sober. Hey, he just said acetyl aldehyde. So if you have dealt with gut issues, and you’ve got a Candida overgrowth, that’s why we use binders for people. We’re not giving someone a binder and saying, oh, by the way, this is going to help with your Friday night drink. No, we’re using binders clinically, because it helps with the toxins that Candida and bacteria and parasites and all these gut infections that we talked about. That’s very beneficial for that, but it just so happens to be helpful with the alcohol piece too. So for those people like oh, Alcohol is the devil, which I joke around and say that many times. If I see my dad drinking, I’ll say, you know, I’ll call the devil right? And he’ll laugh. But anyway, for those people that don’t drink Look, the charcoal is still beneficial. Now, here’s one like side tangent, but I think it’s important to mention because it’s a sad reality is that up, women suppose you know, majority are going to go out to if they go out. I mean, whenever everything’s back to normal, they go out to a bar, and date raping still happens. I had a friend from high school who I saw at the gym years ago, and she apparently got dosed with gh B, you know, she was drinking water, and ended up getting date raped, and here she is not even drinking alcohol. I guess someone slipped ghp into her water and you know, next thing she knows that’s what happened. And so, the good news is there’s a study from European Journal of pharmacology, what’s it say here Pharmaceutical Sciences. Long story short, activated charcoal has clinically relevant ghp binding capacity. There you go. So if you have kids that are 2125 30, whatever they’re in college, you’re worried about them. Just make sure no matter what that if they go to a party or they go to a bar or whatever, that they take the charcoal because it’s going to help with the alcohol. But hey, if somebody tries to potentially date rape them, Look, now you’ve got that absorption as well.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and I imagine that you’d also see glutathione as being a big one because fluidify on helps run those cytochrome p 450. oxidase pathway. Yeah, and right here ghp is naturally occurring compound and glutathione peroxidase, which is one of the major enzymes made by Luna found does help deactivate that. So yeah, these are all really good things. I mean, the goal of this podcast isn’t to tell people to drink it’s just the fact that hey, we know people are going to drink and there are people out there that still may drink and be very healthy, healthy minded. I like to consume a little bit of alcohol a couple glasses a week a lot of my patients do you know they want to have a social life not that you have to be drink alcohol to be social but they enjoy making that a part of their life and how can they do it in a way where they enjoy the the spirits and the the the levity that they get from their alcohol drinks, but at the same time, still maintain good health, cognitive benefit, good decisions, you know, and really still having a good social life without having the hangover and or having any negative health consequences. And so these are good strategies to do it. And we’ll talk about alcohol in a minute. But just to kind of reiterate, we had talked about the enzyme conversion glutathione is very important. We talked about the acid aldehyde is where a lot of the negative consequences happen. glutathione and activated charcoal can help with that as well. We talked about some of the liver tonifying herbs, such as milk thistle or silymarin. Things like dandelion or artichoke, things that support liver and gallbladder function can be helpful too. We talked about some of the nutrients like vitamin C and selenium, selenium is a glutathione precursor as well. And then we talked about the three amino acids and acetylcysteine is a core one and glutamine glycine, are really good amino acids. And Evan mentioned whey protein, which is really high in those amino acids as well can be really good supports to help with that alcohol, to acetyl aldehyde, acetyl aldehyde to acidic acid or apple cider vinegar, that’s the conversion process. And we’re just trying to help one either bind up some of that nonsense or help your body converted optimally. So you don’t deal with the deleterious consequences. 

Evan Brand: Let’s talk about the, you know, kind of the good, not so good, bad choices for alcohol. But first, I want to comment back on the Blue Zone thing you mentioned, because that’s interesting. You’re talking about the Blue Zones and how so many cultures around the world where you’re seeing a massive amount of centenarians, people that are living to 100 years or greater. These people, a lot of them do consume alcohol. I remember that story of that guy down in Austin. He passed away a few years ago, but it was that that African American guy, he lived like 113 or something, and he was like, he was like a world war two veteran, he was super famous. There’s a street named after him in Austin now, but this guy, don’t quote me, but I’m pretty sure this guy was drinking whiskey and smoking cigars every day. Wow. But here’s the funny thing about him and all these Blue Zones. Alcohol is just the lubricant for the social life. All these people in these Blue Zones, these are people who they have multiple generations of family living with them. They’re gardening, they’re there, they’re getting exercise, they’re getting sunshine, they’re barefoot in the dirt all day, they’re possibly eating food that’s not sprayed with chemicals. And they have much, much more of a social life than like your typical nine to five or so I think that when you look at those things, it’s hard to say, hey, the alcohol helped them live to 100 because they were relaxed. Part of its that too. Maybe they got a little bit relaxed, so they weren’t as stressed. And maybe they took let life less serious. Maybe they laughed a little more. But then also those people were super social with all their friends and family and data. So maybe that’s contributed to the longevity because we’ve seen all those papers on like social isolation being compared to smoking cigarettes and how toxic being isolated is so it’s kind of like the alcohol is there at the party, but the main benefit was the party in the people at the party.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% and I just kind of want to highlight here, because there are many people that are listening to this and they’re saying, you know, they may have a history of alcohol abuse or being an alcoholic. Of course, this isn’t for you. But one of the things I want to highlight of why alcohol can be a problem and some people, some people that really have chronic alcohol abuse, the B six vitamin is incredibly affected by alcohol. And B six is really important for synthesis of neurotransmitters in the brain, serotonin, dopamine, it’s very, very important and B six is important for methylation for detoxification for full A and B 12 absorption. So basics really One article right here it’s called vitamin B six metabolism in chronic alcohol abuse to talk about individuals with chronic alcohol abuse frequently exhibit lower plasma levels of pyridoxal five phosphate, that’s B six, because the liver is the primary source of this coenzyme in plasma. Basically, it talks about that liver. toxicity of ethanol can impair hepatic peroxyl five phosphate metabolism. Now this is a rat study, but they’ve seen the same thing in humans. And basics. He talked about ethanol is diminished in the in the rate of release of pyridoxal phosphate phosphate perfused by the livers. The effects of ethanol in vitro were abolished by four methyl piracetol, an inhibitor of alcohol dehydrogenase, so they found that the alcohol dehydrogenase drug actually increased B six, so something to do with that alcohol metabolism really do ranges that be sick. So what does that mean? What’s the Reader’s Digest version means maybe getting a little bit of extra benefit. Complex on board there couldn’t hurt either way so if you have a history of alcohol in your family maybe you don’t but you want to provide extra support for yourself taking a B complex while you consume alcohol could still be a good thing for you. People that are more at a preventative side not saying if you have it still avoided if you have alcohol issues, but if you want to be extra preventative be complex could be something that you may want to add in on top of that. 

Evan Brand: Cool. Yeah, I’m like a one shot a year guy historically, I remember I took like maybe two shots on my bachelor party for my for my wedding and then I we were out playing pool with my dad and my friends, my best man and all that and I just got to the point where I just felt stupid. I was like, God, even after this small amount of alcohol, I couldn’t comprehend simple things. And obviously, my brain likes to run. And so I was like, No, this is slowing me down too much. And so that’s that’s what kind of got me away from it. But But I may try it and see you know, I think there there are some Good, maybe stress reduction benefits. I’d like to see something on alcohol and cortisol. I wonder if there’s anything on that like seeing if salivary cortisol drops, like, let’s say you’re super stressed. I mean, think about like the TV show where you see the guy get pulled over by the cops. First thing he does is whips out a cigarette and starts smoking to take the edge off. I wonder if you took like salivary cortisol, you know, took a shot of vodka, took salivary cortisol. 30 minutes later, you think you’d see it drop? 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think you’re gonna see, you’re gonna see a modulation of serotonin and dopamine, I know nicotine does stimulate dopamine. So you’re gonna see some kind of acute input, some type of acute synthesis of those compounds. Now it’s all about the dosage right? chronicity of it, you’ll actually deplete it more, right? It’s kind of like doing a stimulant, you’re going to get a little bit more dopamine. But if you do it chronically, well, now you’re going to deplete that dopamine and you’re going to need more stimulant to get the same result. But just to kind of highlight that last article. I wanted to read the last sentence that said, the data supports the previous findings that acetal aldehyde is the responsible agent for which acts by accelerating the degradation of intercellular b six. So what does that mean? The more acid aldehyde The more we decrease our B six. So the more we can help metabolize acid aldehyde or cetyl aldehyde with charcoal and glutathione and binders, then we’re going to degrade less B six and then if you really want to support and on top of that, you can do extra B six on top of that extra B vitamins and you’ll be good. Now I consume maybe if I go out I consume alcohol maybe only on a Friday or Saturday. That’s it. I do not do any alcohol during the week. It’s just kind of my personal thing. I like to have that at the end of the week, my hard week done, and I’ll typically do one to two glasses of high quality like a clean dry champagne. I like that I like the bubbles in it. For me bubbles are like my best friend to Chico lots of bubbles. There’s been some studies that the bubble and the carbonation and alcohol actually increases the ability eruption of alcohol into your bloodstream. So what does that mean? bubbles mean you have you need less alcohol to get that alcohol in your bloodstream. So I like that they’ve it’s actually studies on that. Imagine the college study where you sit down and you get one group that’s taking shots of vodka. The other group take shots of vodka with carbonated water and they test your blood alcohol content, yet they’ve done studies like that. I’ve seen them. And so you need less alcohol with the bubbles, which is kind of cool. And then you can do a lot of the strategies that we talked about afterwards. So that’s kind of my strategy. Maybe I’ll drink three. It was my kids birthday this weekend. So I had maybe three glasses of you know, I like a nice, nice champagne. Or I’ll do my Dr. J’s Moscow Mule, which is another great recipe. So we’ll do a high quality Tito’s vodka from Austin and get the potato vodka. It’s filtered as well really clean. I’ll do some Tito’s vodka and I’ll mix that in a nice ginger kombucha and I’ll do a half a wine squeezed and that’s a wonderful drink because you get B vitamins in the kombucha. You get a lot of antioxidants in the kombucha and then you have the the line which provides some extra vitamin C, which does can particularly the thigh own. So it kind of gives you a lot of nutrients that actually help with any acid aldehyde metabolism, which is cool.

Evan Brand: That’s very cool. Okay, so I want to talk real quick about neurotransmitters and bits and you kind of got into it and then we’ll go into maybe the good worse bad kind of choices. So I sent you a in the chat there, I put you a link to this big long paper about neurotransmitters and alcohol. And so we know this but it’s always good to see it in in paper form that both metabolites of serotonin which is they probably were measuring five aiaa, just like we see on the organic acids test, I’m guessing but it talks about here how in humans the levels of serotonin metabolites in the urine and the blood increase after a single drinking session indicating increased serotonin release in the nervous system. And so, you know, if you and I both love, Julia Ross, I’ll speak for you and talk talk about You love her because I love her. I’ve had her on the podcast several times. She’s done amazing work on amino acids. And you know, when she talks about serotonin being low, the deficiency symptoms of serotonin, this these are the things that drive people to drink in some cases. So these are like negativity, depression, worry, anxiety, low self esteem, and then you notice how those people who were kind of anxious and kind of closed in and introverted. Guess what, what happens when they drink, they become extroverted, they’re talking louder, they’re more bubbly, they’re, they’re more happy, they’re more, they’re less anxious, they’re less worried, and that’s because you get that quick boost of serotonin. Now, here’s the problem. And I haven’t read into the paper to confirm this. But I’ve read other papers on this and everybody knows this. If you’ve been in society, what happens at the end of the night when the guy goes home with the wrong girl or the girl goes home with the wrong guy at the end of the night? That’s because you have this temporary boost initially of serotonin and then guess what happens the serotonin crashes and when you have not Not enough serotonin, your decision making goes down, your prefrontal cortex just shuts down and you make bad decisions and you do things that you shouldn’t do. So you have this initial spike, because of the five htt receptors being hit by the alcohol, and then boom, rapidly declines after that. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I think also alcohol just naturally decreases frontal cortex activation anyway. And so frontal cortex is the part of the brain right here, the neocortex that makes us human beings, it basically allows you it’s impulse control. So I don’t know you get in a fight with someone you’re like, oh, man, I really want to whack that person. But then your frontal cortex is like, Oh, no, don’t do that. That’s not good, right? You’ll go to jail. So your frontal cortex kind of like, Can like take a decision, that may be a bad one that you’re thinking impulsively, and it can shut that down. It also can, it can predict outcome of actions. And so when your frontal cortex is closed down, now you don’t have impulse control. So you just start saying whatever comes to your brain, and then you also don’t think about the consequences of your actions hence bad decisions. Yep. And then also in this paper it goes into how serotonin and not only just serotonin but GABA, you know alcohol is going to have an effect on gab as well. So, you know, people are familiar with GABA, it’s kind of the brakes of the brain, I call it and so when people are doing benzodiazepines, like Valium, and Xanax and those kind of things that’s working on the GABA receptors to calm anxiety. You and I prefer to use things like naturally fermented pharma gabbeh. We like to use things like elfy to help boost GABA, but you know, from a toxin perspective, the Gabba Gabba nergic pathway that’s also affected by alcohol too. So that would probably contribute to the relaxation a bit. Yeah, it’s interesting how the date rape drug which is gamma hydroxybutyrate ghp is actually a GABA metabolite. But it’s amazing that that can have the mind altering effects of memory loss. So obviously it must be a dose dependent type of thing. 

Evan Brand: It is Yeah, I was actually Looking at the GH B page, like a data page on it, it was talking about how at a low dose you get like a little bit of euphoria. But then when you go moderate high dose, yeah, you’re unconscious, you got no memory, it’s bad stuff.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, it’s funny when my wife and I go out to eat, I have my little stomach case. And I have enzymes and HCl on one side, and then I have activated charcoal, NAC or vitamin C on the other. And so when we go out, it’s funny, I just pull it out. And I kind of just set up my little supplements as a as I’m going like trying to always hack things, right. And then I’ll do glutathione later at home, because number one, it tastes really bad. anyone that knows liposomal glutathione. I don’t want it to affect the taste of my meal. But then I do those amino acids while there and so that’s just kind of how I hack it. And I’m guessing too. One thing you could do on top of that is people that are trying to whip their serotonin or dopamine levels up, you can just use amino acids as well, to bump up your brain chemicals, right, so we’ll do tyrosine or l dopa. When appearing is to really help improve dopamine or adrenaline levels. And dopamine is a precursor to adrenaline. So part of the way we support healthy dopamine levels is we fix the underlying stressors that are causing your dopamine to go to adrenaline. And then of course, five HTP with B six and B six is very important because it helps with the conversion of your neurotransmitters. And we talked about the article showing a cetyl aldehyde decreases B six levels. So you can see the interplay here, so you can you know, if you’re smart, right, and you have issues to begin with, just avoid alcohol. But if you don’t, and you want to engage in it and have a couple of drinks per week, and you want to do it safe and effectively and hack it so you feel great doing it don’t have a deleterious effects, B six is one, okay. And then we can even do the amino acids five HTP and tyrosine with B six right, I talked about that. And then we have your binder, we have your glutathione precursor and then we have your minerals or your hydration which could just be a nice bottle of Pellegrino dropped off at the table with some limes and you can get some vitamin C in the lime juice and then you’re set. 

Evan Brand: Let me mention this. The people that have alcohol cravings, so you’re like hey, workweeks done great week let’s chill out a little bit that’s not you craving it that’s you just going to it because you’re enjoying it now the people that have to go to it the people like oh my god, I got to have a drink. Those people need more functional medicine help. So you know, Julia Ross talks about this a lot people that are having cravings for alcohol. You know, these are people that may need something like glutamine to help with the the brain to help the brain feel stable and calm. The people that are low in serotonin, they may crave alcohol as well. So like you said, that’s where the five HTP comes in. If someone’s burned out their catecholamines, they may have alcohol cravings, and some people it manifests as dark chocolate cravings, and some people it manifests as sweet cravings and some people it’s alcohol or it’s cannabis craving so you can have different vices tied into the same neurotransmitter. Same thing with Gabba. If you’re real low in GABA, you’re going to be someone who it’s hard for you to relax your real tightly wound. And you may crave sweets or starches, but you also may crave alcohol. So when you get the alcohol, oh my god, you loosen your shoulders a little bit, that’s a sign that you need help and the GABA department and then reach out to somebody like Dr. J. And let’s help you boost your natural levels and some of its genetics. Some people are just genetically going to be lower, they’re more anxious, maybe family history, childhood, whatever. And some people it’s the stress of toxicity and gut bugs or whatever else. It’s affected neurotransmitters like you and I see when people have gut infections, we’ll look at their serotonin and serotonin is often low. And my theory is that, hey, you’ve got a lot of gut bugs, you’re probably not able to manufacture enough serotonin in the gut, and therefore that’s why you’re anxious and depressed. And that’s why you have to have your alcohol to be happy or to do whatever you have to do but if you fix the gut, we retest the organic acid, boom, serotonin. goes back up to normal, which is really cool to see on paper.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. Yep, totally. And again, alcohol isn’t there is some genetics to it. You’ll see it in a lot of people of Irish descent. Supposedly there’s some issues with with B vitamin or thymine deficiency, which is B one. And alcohol consumption actually further depletes that. So you see it in the Irish population. You also saw in the Native American population, a lot of alcoholism there. So thigh means a big role. That’s kind of why I was saying that. A good B complex would be one and B six can be very helpful as a preventative for people that may not be alcoholics but may have it in their family as a good preventative. Number two, if you are an alcoholic, you really want to look at supporting the adrenals you want to really look at supporting blood sugar, blood sugar is really important. You want to look at treating Candida because of the acid aldehyde in your gut from Candida can still mimic that. You want to look at supporting B vitamins and digestion and absorption. And one of the best things you can do when when you go out to eat is have Some protein and fat with your meal, it’s very helpful. One of the things I’ll do when I consume alcohol is I love oysters. And oysters are very high in zinc. And I’m pretty sure oysters are also very high in B vitamins too, I have to look at that real quick. Yet oysters are very high in B 12. And they’re also very high. And they do have some smaller amounts of timing nice and in full eight. And so that’s really good. So really, if you can go out and actually consume really nutrient dense foods, foie gras, liver, high quality grass fed steaks, you know, good seafood consumption, you’re going to have a lot of extra B vitamins there that will help fill in the gap nutritionally as well. 

Evan Brand: Yep. So let’s get into the good, worse, bad choice if you want to now. So you mentioned vodka already, which is good, because you mentioned it’s going to be distilled. It’s going to be ultra purified. So if you’re looking for just the pure stuff, it’s going to be that and then a golf a would probably be up at the top of the top of the list. Do you mean Yeah, tequila made from a GAVI. So- 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: One thing to add though the volca I’m a big fan of titos I’m pretty sure it’s potato bass and I think it’s also a filter like seven or eight times and isn’t it also isn’t also go to a charcoal filter.

Evan Brand: Supposedly that’s what we read. I haven’t confirmed it but yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, so very clean. So if you want to consume that, and then I’ll do the Vodka with a high quality kombucha to really help improve the self improve the B vitamin nutrient levels too.

Evan Brand: Yep, so so tequila are coming from a GABE that’s gonna be generally really, really clean and then you get into the brown stuff. So you’re going to get into the whiskies. And then of course, you got bourbon which bourbon just means that it was made in Kentucky where I live Nice, huh? Same thing, whiskey and bourbon, same thing like Bourbons made in Kentucky and that’s what that’s what allows it to be called bourbon. So, but that’s but that’s made from grains. And generally grains are going to be genetically modified. They’re going to be sprayed with a lot of chemicals. So if you get a quote, really high grade High School Last whiskey bourbon, guess what, it’s not going to be certified organic and it’s not going to be, you know, GMO glyphosate free. So I would argue that the tequila and vodka choices would probably be far better. Now there’s also one. It’s like a Hawaiian company that makes an organic vodka. I’m gonna see if I can pull it up. It had like a blue bottle. It was like a, it’s called ocean. It’s organic vodka. And it was by a company called ocean. So and they make it from organic sugarcane. So that’s kind of cool. I like that it comes from an 80 acre farm and distillery in Maui and they use solar panels to power the distillery and blah, blah, blah. So it’s organic sugar cane, blended with deep ocean mineral water. So that’s kind of cool. So I think if you could get organic, and that would be smart. Now people that have allergies with corn. There’s another brand called frankly, who makes organic vodka but it’s made from organic corn. So when cause any issues if you had a corn allergy, I don’t know, maybe go for the sugar cane stuff instead.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Usually it’s filtered enough, it’s gonna have lot of its proteins. Proteins are a lot bigger so usually those are gonna get filtered out. Vodka’s gonna be the cleanest, there are antioxidants and some of those compounds. So you mentioned Gin, which is made of Juniper Berries which are very powerful antioxidants. Also things like Whiskey for instance, which is made from grains but typically the distillation process filtered it out, and it has different antioxidants in there, so it’s allagic acid which is a powerful antioxidant. And there are some decent compounds in there so your hard alcohols are gonna be good. Vodka’s my favorite because it mixes really well and you can get a high quality one that’s really clean. And we have like a nice dry apple cider, it’s really good, just try to get the one without sugar added. There’s a good brand in whole foods in Austin called Anthem, it’s a pretty good one. Another one is Magner which is pretty good too. Then of course you have your dry wines right so you have like a champagne which is basically a bubbly wine where the grapes come from one province in France right, but then you have like versions of prosecco which is a champagne version in Italy you have cava which is a champagne version in Spain and so I’ll tend to lean to some of the sparkling wines or really clean dry apple cider or really clean like my Dr. J’s Moscow Mule which i have a blog post on how to make and that’s the vodka, the ginger kombucha, half a lime squeeze and that’s phenomenal stuff.  And then of course you have the regular white wine, drier version you have the redder wines, which could have some other types of gluten in there because of the uh the granules of flour that may line some of the bottles, the like the big bins the big like barrels of of actual wine there could be some cross contamination there, and then you have like your flavored liqueurs, and then you have your beer, your lager, and then of course your not so good mix drink with lots of high sugar that’s kind of the spectrum.

Evan Brand: Yeah you notice like we barely even give any credit to the existence of those garbage ones like your Smirnoff  blue dye colored sugary corn syrup cane sugar mixture with alcohol, I mean the stuff like if you go out to like an american restaurant you get a margarita i mean it’s going to be a disgusting combination of artificial colors and dyes and sugar. It’s probably more sugar than there is alcohol in most of those things.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah I mean I can tell you, market demand though a lot more higher quality healthier alcohol drinks. I’m seeing a lot of sparkling water with a little bit of vodka, and some even just sweetened with a little bit of stevia, I think it’s like the white claw one and there’s another one out there, so there’s a couple of decent ones that are out there that are made from mass consumption. They kind of are dialed in with a little bit of vodka, a little sparkling, maybe even a tiny bit of Stevia and so not as bad. 

Evan Brand: Cool. I’ve heard of the white claw. I haven’t looked it up yet. I’m going to try to see what are the ingredients here. I’ve got an ingredient label here- black cherry-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: There’s another one it’s like fawn and something vaughn and forget. 

Evan Brand: So apparently, it’s carbonated water alcohol which I’m not sure what kind of alcohol it is. It just says it’s a gluten-free alcohol base natural flavor cane sugar citric acid. So yeah I mean I guess I would argue that’s not terrible. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You have to look at some some are low it’s another one bon and vive are one that i’ve seen before that just on the shelf that like pretty low sugar, like for me, i would probably just make my own with kombucha, because i feel like i can i can add more nutrients to it, and have that natural sweetness there.  But so just kind of giving you guys an idea of kind of how we think about it, Evan doesn’t drink at all i drink a tiny bit on the weekend, not during the week, so just kind of how we approach it. One, how do we choose the healthiest version possible. Two, how do we mitigate the side effects with some of the supplements that we recommend during. 

Evan Brand: I’m not opposed to it. I know I would go for it if it’s something clean i would probably go for it. I was just staying away because after my mold exposure you know i developed some histamine issues and when you look into alcohol and dao the enzyme that breaks down histamine the idea is that alcohol down regulates the dao enzyme and then it increases histamine because of that whole acetyl-aldehyde path that we talked about earlier. So people with histamine issues, uh people with gut issues those are probably people that should proceed with caution, but you know, once I feel like i’m on steady ground with the histamine thing i’ll probably try some. Let’s see what happens, maybe i’ll — but here’s here’s the funny thing. I’ve always been so social uh such an extrovert, so outgoing, that anytime i were at a party if i were driving friends around or whatever, i was always more social than the people there and like people would think i was buzzed or think i was drunk because of how social i was and so people have to drink to get on my level of sociability which has always been pretty funny. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: No, I get that. That makes sense. So just kind of recapping for everyone right, choose the highest quality alcohol you possibly can based on that scale that we gave. Vodka, tequila, to whiskey, to gin, to your dryer kind of bubbly champagne, to your dryer red and white wines, to your beers lagers and kind of sugary drinks at the end. So choose kind of the best on that spectrum. Metabolism of alcohol right, ethyl alcohol, acid alcohol, two acetaldehyde acetaldehyde to acetic acid right so catalase enzyme here in that first step glutathione helps with that, and then from the uh acetaldehyde to acetic acid- that’s the alcohol dehydrogenase II, activated charcoal and different sulfur amino acids help decrease that as well. So use those. Be very mindful of alcohol, especially hard alcohol can actually decrease your blood sugar. So what happens is your liver does help with blood sugar stability, gluconeogenesis, when you lean up a whole bunch of ethyl alcohol against it, guess what happens? Your liver stops helping with blood sugar and so you when you take in alcohol. You can actually lower your blood sugar because there’s no sugar when you take in vodka for instance. So you’re actually decreasing your blood sugar, now what happens? When this happens it can create cravings, so when you go to a bar or restaurant they want to give you alcohol first a lot of times that’s going to decrease your blood sugar, because what your body can’t help maintain blood sugar stability. So the harder it is you have a lower blood sugar level. What does that do? More cravings, more appetite, more eating sugary and crappy carbohydrates and that can create a blood sugar roller coaster. So have good proteins good fats first before you eat so you can have better blood sugar control, and then use a lot of the supplementation that we talked about activated charcoal, vitamin c, milk thistle, nac, glutathione, and then make sure you hydrate in between to maintain your mineral levels.  

Evan Brand: Yeah. The restaurants know that if they can get you drinking you’re more likely to order that brownie with vanilla ice cream on top. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Bingo. 100%. So I always want to put myself in a position where my cravings are not driving the bus, so to speak. I’m able to make decisions based on what I want versus what my cravings want. 

Evan Brand: Yeah, exactly. Well, let’s wrap this thing up. If you want to reach out, you can check out Dr Justin at JustinHealth.com. He does consults worldwide- phone, facetime, skype, whatever we have to do to connect. That’s what you do. We send lab tests to your door, we help you with a wide range of health issues, you can view more on that website and if you want to reach out to me, Evan Brand that’s the website- EvanBrand.com. Same thing available worldwide. We’re blessed, we love being able to help people, we love being able to help hack things where people can still feel like a normal human. You know sometimes when you’re in this functional medicine health world, you feel like things are restricted. You’ve got these dietary restrictions, and now you can’t do this and now you can’t go eat the birthday cake and da da da da da so the good news is you can hack things like we’ve talked about today and you can still feel like a quote normal human. I really don’t want to feel like a normal human because most normal humans are super unhealthy and sick and overweight and whatever. So I’d rather feel the way we feel.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% agreed. I can’t believe this is one of our longest podcasts in a while, but I guess there’s a lot to talk about when it comes to uh alcohol consumption and how to do it the right way. So hopefully um the listeners enjoy the extra in depth and the biochemistry and some of the mechanism stuff and uh just you know walk away and apply a couple of components here to make your alcohol consumption healthier. If you feel the need to engage so far.

Evan Brand: Yep or share the content so sharing is caring. Please do and I would love if you’d write a review for us on iTunes because wherever you’re listening on your podcast app you should just be able to click write a review. So do it, I know we’re like we’re real people we’re not just like the annoying pop-up where the app’s like please rate me and you’re like maybe later or you’re like no thanks, don’t do that to us. Actually give it to us, we need it, we appreciate it. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We appreciate it. We wanted to get uh in front of more people so they can take control of their health and that makes the world a better place so we appreciate that. Evan excellent chat today really appreciate it. We will be back next week you guys, have a phenomenal week. Take care y’all. Bye now.


References:

https://justinhealth.com/

https://www.evanbrand.com/

Audio Podcast:

https://justinhealth.libsyn.com/hack-your-alcohol-consumption-and-avoid-hangovers-podcast-300

The Top 5 Causes of Chronic Headaches

Today we are going to be talking about the top underlying reasons why you may be having a chronic headache. I had a patient come in today who had headaches for 25 years, monthly and chronically, and we were able to get to the root cause and there are many different root causes for every person. Let me lay out the common ones that I find to be a major vector of my patients.

Click here for a consultation with a functional medicine doctor if you are experiencing chronic headaches!

So we have headaches and head pain or migraines where you kind of have that aura and sound sensitivity. There are a couple of different major reasons why headaches may happen.

1. Food Allergens

Most common food allergy is gluten and dairy. There are some studies on gluten affecting blood flow up to the brain. We have these garden hoses on the side of our neck called our carotid arteries. When we have inflammation especially caused by gluten that can decrease blood flow and blood profusion to the frontal cortex, and when you have less blood, you’re going to have decreased performance of the brain. You can see that manifesting in a headache. People don’t know but headaches are actually an issue with vasodilation in the brain.  Caffeine can help as caffeine actually causes constriction and brain’s typical headache signal is caused by vasodilation.

2. Food Additives.

These could be things like MSG, aspartame, Splenda or various artificial colors and dyes.

3. Blood Sugar Fluctuation.

We want to have healthy proteins and healthy fats with every meal. If we skip meals or we eat foods that are too high in carbohydrates and refined “crapohydrates” and sugar, and not enough fats and proteins, our blood sugar can go up and then drop. This is called reactive hypoglycemia. We react by putting a whole bunch of sugar in our bloodstream because all of these carbohydrate sources break down into sugar — processed sugar, grains, flours and acellular carbohydrates. These type of flours and refined processed carbs get converted to glucose in our bloodstream. When glucose goes up, our pancreas goes, “Holy smokes! We got a lot of glucose there. We got to pull it into the cell.” It spits out a whole bunch of insulin and pulls that glucose right down, and we have his blood sugar going up with a lot of insulin driving that blood sugar back down. When that blood sugar goes back down, this is where we have cravings.  This is where we have addictions, mood issues, energy issues, jitteriness, and cognitive issues. Our body makes adrenaline and cortisol to bring that blood sugar back up. Most people literally live on this high insulin where they are making fat, storing fat and engaging in lipogenesis which makes us tired. Then blood sugar crashes which makes people jittery, anxious, and moody. Most people live on this reactive hypoglycemia rollercoaster and that can drive headaches.

4. Gut Infections.

Patients with a lot of gut inflammation, gut permeability, and infections whether it’s H. pylori, SIBO (small intestinal, bacterial overgrowth) or fungal overgrowth have gut stressors can create inflammation in the gut. When we have inflammation in the gut, we have gut permeability. So our tight junctions in our intestines start to open up and undigested bacteria, lipopolysaccharides, food particles can slip through and create an immune response. You can see histamine along with that immune response and histamine can create headache issues.

5. Hormonal Issue.

A woman’s cycle is about 28 days and in the middle is ovulation. Some women have it during ovulation and most have it right at the end just before they menstruate. This is called premenstrual syndrome that is right before menstruation. A lot of women may also have it during menstruation, too. What happens is progesterone can drop out early and that drop in progesterone can actually cause headache manifestations and also the aberrations in estrogen can also cause headaches as well. We may also see it with excessive bleeding too. So if you’re bleeding a lot or too much, what may happen is you may lose iron and that low iron may cause oxygenation issues.  That low level of oxygen may also cause some headache issues as well.  Because if you can’t carry oxygen, that is going to be a stressed-out situation for your mitochondria and your metabolism. For menopausal women who have chronically low hormones and they’re not in an optimal place, that can create issues. Progesterone and estrogen can be very anti-inflammatory. So if there is inflammation in the brain, progesterone is a powerful anti-inflammatory and that can really help a lot of inflammation in the brain.

If you have any questions about headaches, please reach out to a functional medicine doctor to find a way to fix your issue.

Summer Time Parasite Infections & Lyme | Podcast #296

This episode talks about parasite infections that people get during summertime, like ticks, lyme, and other types of infections. Dr. Justin and Evan Brand give a talk on how we deal with these infections, the root cause of it, myths, useful herbs and products in keeping the infections away, and a lot more! More information given below. Dr. Justin Marchegiani

Dr. Justin Marchegiani

In this episode, we cover:

0:40       Summer Infections with Ticks

7:50       Dealing with Ticks, Other Pathogens

15:52      Different Infections

22:08      Herbs for the Infections

29:29      Pregnancy Related Infections  

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Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And we are live. It’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani here in the house today we’re going to be chatting about summertime infections. Evan, how are we doing today man? 

Evan Brand: Doing really well, hoping that we can save some people from trouble. You know, the CDC says every year that 300,000 new cases of Lyme happen every year, and that’s the official number. So I suspect the real numbers probably close to like 500,000, or maybe even more. And then of course, parasites are big, too. I suggested parasites and he said, Hey, well, we can’t forget to talk about ticks because people are out and about during the summertime, potentially picking them up. And it’s a huge deal. So let’s dive in. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. So kind of one strategy that I kind of put forward. And we chatted about last week for summertime infections with ticks, especially if you’re in your yard and you kind of want to know what’s going on in your yard. My wife got a tick last week. And what we did is we sent the tick to the lab and the reason why is because we wanted to make If there was an infection, we knew exactly what the infection was. So we had a tested for briella, which is borrelia. burgdorferi is the major bacteria in the ticks, we tested for like a babesia bartonella. Thankfully, the tick wasn’t caught wasn’t carrying any of these co infections. And I imagine you’d probably find ticks in your area that are carrying, let’s say, babesia, you’ll probably see a pattern of that in the locality of your yard or in your area. So I think it’s nice to know what kind of infections you may be dealing with. That way you can be on top of it and you can kind of have maybe the tinctures or the herbal formulas that you need to address some of those infections ahead of time. And that way, you’re not having to play this guesswork because you know how it is with Lyme. Hey, okay, is it just Lyme where this is a [inaudible] kind of bacterial infection or is it something else like a co infection, it’s kind of nice to know that way you can really hone in your treatment and if your tick comes back positive, you can kind of do it even preemptively or ahead of time, which is nice. And so we use it tickreport.com And we’ll put the link down below, but that’s helpful and we would just pay the hundred dollars and have the expanded panel and get all of the infections pulled up, which is great. And then you can kind of, you know, create a profile for your home where you know, okay, we in our backyard, we have a lot of bartonella. So we’re going to be really, really careful. And then one thing you can do on top of that we kind of talked about it ahead of time is you can use a product called wondercide, which is a seed oil product, natural no crap and there’s a couple other ones you can make. With different essential oils, you can do cedar, you can do olive leaf, you can do peppermint, but a lot of these oils are going to irritate and aggravate the ticks. So you can kind of create a barrier where you kind of push them outside of your yard using the wondercide or using the cedar oil and you can spray that over any forest area or higher grasses or any area where there’s bugs or insects or mosquitoes and it really helps kind of keeping the insects down a little bit and creating this little inflammatory buffer for them in your yard. 

Evan Brand: Yeah, this stuff potent we got the premade solution at our old house where you can get up to the water hose and you spray it that way, man, I tell you that stuff. My God, you talk about potent. I didn’t even like and I’m like, Am I a tick because I don’t even like this thing I’m going to get away. But after a few days It does. It does get pretty, you know, pretty benign in terms of smell. And where we were hiking and biking and doing everything was such a huge area that for us it wouldn’t have been sustainable to do cedar oil on the whole thing, but at least in just the immediate backyard. That’s what we did. And supposedly it helps with mosquitoes. I don’t know, I can’t say I’m not sure but definitely does.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep, it does. I mean, you can make your own. Some essential oil lines like doterra they have their terror shield which is really good. You can make it a lot of times with a spearmint or a time or clove or Rosemary or citronella. So there’s different citrus oils or peppermint oils that you can combine and you can make your own kind of natural bug spray and then you can just put it in a good 16 ounce bottle and you Kind of spray, you know around the perimeter of your property and or any big bushes Where are high grass where bugs can hide. And I find just doing that kind of every couple of weeks just take a five minute walk around the property with the spray bottle, and that can really kind of help keep a lot of that down. 

Evan Brand: Yeah, Stephen Buehner love Stephen did some really, really great books on Lyme and co infections in his book, he has a recipe. So if you all have that book, it’s the healing line book. He has a recipe in there for what he calls like a 99% effective tick repellent. You mix all these essential oils together and my lord It is very, very, very, very strong and potent. I don’t think I’ve had any takes on me but man, one spray on your legs and you’re going to be smelling like think Frankincense is in there but you’re going to be smelling all day so you have to shower off after that but either way, I’d rather smell like essential oils. Now one other thing to this another piece of advice if you are going in wooded areas I’ve had several clients who’ve been out camping so far this summer and they have came back with ticks on them or their dogs. It’s called a Picarton. It’s PIC like pick a carton. And Sawyer is a brand who makes the card and there’s other brands out there. But apparently I looked into the literature on this because it’s, I don’t like manmade chemicals. You know, you hear about deet and deets, bad news. But this Picarton is like a synthetic pepper extract. It has no smell to it at all, which is amazing because most of the conventional bug spray smell smell terrible. So I when I was looking at a piece of property, I actually got some of this Picarton lotion, and it’s like a 20%. And I put some of the lotion on and I was in I’m talking the thick of the thick where I would have typically had five, six ticks on me. I had I had zero and all I did is I put just a tiny dime sized amount on my ankles and then I put a little bit on the back of my neck and a little bit around my waist because I like to crawl into your pants and I hadn’t noticed So I haven’t I haven’t done enough you know, long term research on this, but so far Picarton just look up a card and it’s, it is synthetic. But in terms of toxicity, I can’t find anything about it. I think there were a couple rat studies where they were applying tons of it for years and years and nothing ever happened. So it seems benign, it seems safer than deep for sure. If the essential oils like they weren’t for me, they were too strong. I got a headache from the essential oil blends and the McCartan could be something else to look into it. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s good. I mean, just the standard cedar oil is going to be excellent just having a lot of times the cedar oil acts as a bug spray. But what it does is I mean, if you if you see if you ever treat your dog with a cedar oil bath at all, you can see like a little fleas, you put some seed oil, they literally run from it, right? And so if you do that it kind of acts as a good repellent where they’re less likely to jump on you because you’re not quite as tasty right. So the cedar oil is great. Badger makes a really excellent insect or I should say mosquito repellent and it has a lot of cedar oil in it. So it would work for other bugs and even for ticks. And then one thing I recommend everyone get is get a tick removal kit that just you can get them from on Amazon for like 10 15 bucks. But if you ever get a tick, you’ll have the ability to pull it off without destroying the tick keeping it intact. And then you can also send it into the tick report place and get your report. So definitely spend that 10 to 15 bucks to get a tick remover kit. We’ll put the Amazon link down below the one that I’ve used. And I’ve used successfully the last couple of weeks that I’ve got a tick off my dog recently and I took off my wife and it worked great, keeps it intact. Easy because the worst thing is you don’t want to break that tick open and you don’t want to have half in and half out. So it’s a great way to get it out and intact and send it off to the lab. 

Evan Brand: Yeah, there’s a bunch of myths like doing a match head to a tick don’t do that or try to twist it or crazy stuff. Don’t do that you just grab on and once you pinch these guys, you just hope And on them. And then eventually they released they let go. So I just kind of grabbed the tick hold with pressure. And then eventually, three, four seconds later it lets go and it just pops off. So I would have done the tick report, but I was pulling so many off at the time. It’s like, Okay, well, which tick, you know, which tick Am I going to blame here? So.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I mean, for you, it probably just be nice to get a profile just to say, okay, you know, let’s put in five or six ticks, see what comes back. Okay, we got some bartonella coming up in the backyard. So then we can, we can really have a lot of maybe we’re going to be on some bartonella support throughout the summer, just to be on top of that. But if you look at a lot of the tick removals when it comes with tweezers, which is kind of standard, but it’s like this little V, and so wherever the tick is, let’s say the ticks here, you start with the V, and then as the V comes in, it gets underneath the tick and it kind of pops it out as you go in. So once you’re all the way down on the V, you can pull it out, yeah, at least get its grasp off and then you can use the tweezers to then pull off the skin. So that little v thing really helps. It just allows you to scoop underneath the tick and have it release so then you can pull it off better. 

Evan Brand: Yep, when fingers crossed, hopefully people don’t get them hopefully, whether it’s the Picarton or whether it’s the essential oil blend like Buner talks about in the book or the cedar in your yard, you know, hopefully, these are things you can do to prevent it. And if you live somewhere where you don’t have and will Well, good for you, you’re, you’re seriously lucky. But that’s, that’s the tick thing. Now let’s talk about some of these other these other pathogens, things that you’re probably going to get from water more than you are from things crawling on you things that I’ve personally dealt with, and you and I’ve dealt with clinically, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of times, which is going to be Cryptosporidium, and giardia, which are two infections that really really start to pop up in summertime because people they’re playing in the water more and they can really, really wreck you. Now, here’s the annoying thing. I want your comments on this. This is the annoying thing is when you look up crypto or you look up Giardia and you get just the standard kind of CDC information. It always talks about how like immunizations compromise people with AIDS and HIV and data. Those are the people don’t get sick from it. But all right. I don’t have HIV AIDS, I don’t have cancer that I know of, and I got really sick from those pathogens. So what do you say to those articles where it kind of makes you it almost gives you a false sense of security because it’s like it’s only the elderly or this or that they can get symptomatic from these bugs.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. I mean, I think there’s a spectrum, right, I think the most pathogenic expression of the infection is going to express with people that have significant immunocompromised conditions, like you see people with AIDS, they die of Candida, right, because of the fact that not the Candida kills you but it’s the fact that when you’re immunocompromised significantly, it can definitely be something that puts the straw, you know, the last nail in the coffin, so to speak, right, the straw that breaks the camel’s back. So that’s for sure. Now, you could be in a place where, hey, maybe you’re just having a little bit of loose stool, maybe you’re getting some brain fog. Maybe you’re having a little bit tummy upset. And we know GRT actually comes from beavers in the water. So if you’re hiking and you consume water or potentially you’re in a lake water, it’s possible that you could get exposed to it. So, you know, I’m an avid water skier watersport guy. And so if you’re out in the water a bit, you really want to be on top of that, you know, make sure you don’t swell on it. If you if you do by accident, incidentally, which could happen with water sports, or just being in the water, right? Same goes up your nose, you want to have some good clearing herbs on hand that you can at least take preventatively maybe even before after, and then maybe some extra probiotics on top of that to prevent any infection from kind of gaining a foothold. That’s going to be helpful but with JRD I mean, you could have just loose you know, loose or watery diarrhea. You could have some cramps because of the minerals being thrown off because of the diarrhea. You could have nausea or poor appetite issues. You could have energy issues, you could have cognitive issues, brain fog issues, of course that can affect energy and mood as well. And then when you throw off the electrolytes, you know, your muscles may not work well, you may have some muscle fatigue as well. So all those things are possible, especially if you start getting diarrhea and you lose your electrolytes. So all those things are, you know, key. So if you have that we want to do some different stool testing to pick that up. So grd isn’t any one of the first anything else you want to say about that. 

Evan Brand: Yeah, the symptoms, I’m just, I guess what I was kind of frustrated about is people will think, oh, that can’t be it because it says here, it’s only going to be elderly or this or that and then they’re like, No, that can’t be me. This article says here, it’s only the you know, severely immunocompromised people who can get sick, but in my case, I was what I thought I would say I was relatively healthy. And you know, I ended up losing a ton of weight from Giardia because it massively affected my appetite and digestion. So, this you know, the point of this whole podcast is if everything was decent to average, and now all of a sudden you got some weird things popping up in the summer. This is one of the most common infections people are going to pick up this time of the year. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Giardia is gonna be a big one we’ve talked about I think you heard it before in the past. Also the next one’s Cryptosporidium, that’s another waterborne parasite. Again, you’re gonna see a lot of the data saying, Hey, you got to be immunocompromised but I can tell you I’ve seen patients get it that are not immunocompromised. And what does immunocompromised mean? I mean are a lot of people at a health level where they could be a little bit you know, compromised, maybe not at the same level of someone with AIDS or someone who was malnourished at a third world country but I think people are getting these infections and I think it’s kind of written off at these infections only happen in like Third World type of countries where water supplies bad and nutrition’s is bad or someone with a has a severe immunocompromised condition but I’ve seen it happen and others I know you have to so we want people to definitely be aware of it. So Cryptosporidium is another water and either a food one so we’re thinking summer people are in the water, the lakes, the ponds, and these could be something that they catch or get exposed to. So an ounce of prevention is possible. worth a pound of cure, right? So we can be on top of these things where we take some nice clearing herbs ahead of time. In my line, I do the giac clear for ahead of time, which will have the berberine, the golden seal, it’ll have some olive leaf and some grapefruit seed extract some black walnut holes. And I’ll do a couple before couple after. And that’s usually enough to kind of keep things at bay. And maybe I’ll throw in some probiotics that night or that next day or to some extra dose to really make sure we have some good beneficial bacteria that can help crowd certain things out and flush some stuff out as well. Nice.

Evan Brand: Yeah, I don’t have personal test in front of me, but my daughter when she was two, she had parasites, we just noticed that she was having some loose stool. So this is a call out to the parents too. If you’ve got kids, you know, talk to your kids about their poops. You know if they start getting 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 years old, maybe they don’t want to talk about their poops. But this can be important because let’s say you’re just hanging out on the boat drinking a margarita or something but the kids are in the water. They’re more likely to just maybe on purpose or accidentally swallow some water and get infections and the parents may not know about Because the kids don’t talk about their poops, so, and I’ve worked on hundreds of kids, and you’ll see kids that have mood issues that are linked to these infections. So the parents may say, Oh, well, the kid, you know, he’s just crazy. He’s got anger, or he’s got irritability, or he’s got this or that. But there’s a huge link between mood issues and gut infections. And I tell you, when I had gut infections, my mood was crap. Because my if you think of the domino effect here, the infections are messing up your ability to digest, you don’t have enough amino acids, so you may lose weight or muscle mass, your neurotransmitters can get affected, you could have all sorts of issues downstream. So it’s not just like diarrhea, it can manifest in many other ways. So if your kids are crazy, all of a sudden, it could be an infection piece and their liver may not be able to keep up with the toxic load. So if you see dark circles under the eyes of your kids, you know, that may be something to investigate. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. 100% so we have different infections. On the parasite side, which could be Giardia. It could be Cryptosporidium, Our stool test of choice for addressing this will be the GI map. We’ll put a link down below if you guys want to reach out and order a GI map from Evan or I will put our links down below so you guys can access it. That’s wonderful. Okay. And then we talked about the ticks, right? So what I recommend if it’s if it’s happening or is a frequent exposure in your backyard, figure out what your tics may be carrying. That way you can kind of be on some different herbal support ahead of time. What are some of your favorite herbal support for the different types of CO infections, Evan? 

Evan Brand: Well, I got to give credit where credit’s due so Steven Buner in his book one thing I forgot to mention, we may have mentioned it years ago on a podcast but and I can’t confirm whether or not this worked for me or my wife because I had so many tick bites that it was hard to say. Like, did I prevent the infection from that bite but that bite did get me when you have multiple it’s tough but Andrew graphis Well, we did is we did his recommendation of a green clay mixed with andrographis. You kind of make a paste out of it and you put the paste on the tick bite area and it’ll just basically solidify and it gets kind of crusty, but that on the tick bite area is supposed to help prevent infection I don’t know if it’s like a quote sucking mechanism or what to pull the infection out. But the andrographis clay mixture supposed to be very well preventing infection. Like I said, I’ve had too many bites to confirm whether or not that work but if I do get any more future by itself will be while I’ll be implementing. And then of course on just in summertime in general, I’m staying on astragalus about two to three grams a day just to keep my immune system on alert that in theory could help to where if you did get bit with a tick to have borrelia which is a bacteria that causes Lyme in theory, if the astragalus at the two to three gram daily dosages in your system, in theory, it could help to keep the immune system revved up enough to where Lyme would not be able to take place. And then going into the actual herbs and the Favorites there. It kind of depends on what you’re up against. And it depends on you know, whether it’s a kid it depends on the Constitution of The person I use a lot of beyond balance products, their professional company they’ve got several tinctures specifically designed for different types of babesia. They have several for bartonella. They have some for borrelia. I’ll work in some of those. But man, I’m a big fan of, of isolated herbs too. So like Japanese knotweed is so amazing and so broad spectrum and it is kind of an anti spy rokit-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: or Japanese knotweed that’s basically resveratrol. So Japanese knotweed is an herb but very, very high in resveratrol, which has some immuno modulating benefits. 

Evan Brand: Yeah, and you want you want if you’re going to get resveratrol, you want it from knotweed, you don’t want it from like grape seed or whatever else. There’s other forms of resveratrol, but you want the knotweed so that I love knotweed, I’ve got a huge bottle of it right here.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s great.

Evan Brand: And then my other my other favorite tincture here, this is CSA, this is crypto lepus Sita and our corneas good. And these are the CSA blend is good. I’ve tried to do some different isolated tinctures like Sita, which can be very helpful for bartonella bartonella can actually come from mosquitoes and from fleas so if your pets had fleas and the fleas jump off, you can actually get bartonella from those so people that think, Oh, I haven’t had a tick bite, you know, many people I’ve tested positive for bartonella that have never had a tick bite that they know of. So, in bartonella, can be a beast regarding, you know, chemical sensitivities and headache at the occipital portion on the back of the head, it can cause anxiety, it can cause depression, despair, it can do a lot of stuff to you. And so, the CSA blend is something that can address bartonella and it can address babesia but easier Believe it or not, I had I had deja vu all the time, like two three times a week, but I Oh my God, I’ve been here before this is weird, you know, massive deja vu. Apparently, deja vu is one of the symptoms of the vizia. So that’s how I knew to test it. And then I can confirm with DNA testing and show that that I did have a visa so the CSA is great for me because, you know, bartonella showed up for me and but Vizier showed up for me and krypto lepus sido. cornea, those three are sort of anti malarial herbs are kind of traditional anti malarial herbs. And Bz is kind of a cousin of malaria and the way it infects the red blood cells. So those are, those are two game changers for me, but does that mean that you need to go by those? No, not at all. You should definitely work with a practitioner because this stuff gets tricky. And depending on what’s going on with the immune system, there may be other priorities. So you know, Justin, I always talk about kind of painting the picture and getting all the puzzle pieces. So there may be parasites to go after first, there may be H. pylori, there may be bacterial overgrowth, there may be other things first, it’s not so, so simple and clear as I got bit by tick test positive for bartonella. I’m going to go take every herb that you can take for bartonella because that may not be the correct order of operations.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 110% 110%. So it’s nice to know what kind of infections are going on. So when you talked about the first line defense, you talked about putting a bentonite clay over the tick bite. 

Evan Brand: Yeah. So you would mix it you’d mix clay and water graphis together. Okay.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So you get an andrographis tincture, you mix it with a little bit of bentonite clay and put that right over the tick bite. 

Evan Brand: Yeah, turned into a paste, rub it on, let it dry, and then just leave it there for a few hours or however long it kind of makes your skin like, I don’t know, maybe a little itchy or just kind of stretches. It feels like it’s stretching it because it’s drying. So as long as you can handle it. Yeah, keep it on the take fight area. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So andrographis and then you do that maybe dry it with a with a hairdryer and maybe put a bandage over it to keep it from falling off. Maybe.

Evan Brand: The bandage would be smart. Yeah, we didn’t do that. I was just losing crusties everywhere but yeah, the bandage would have been smart.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That makes sense because you’re kind of just you’re trying to use it as a magnet to kind of pull any toxins or junk out. So it doesn’t quite go as Right. 

Evan Brand: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And I’ve heard I’ve heard people say they think it worked, you know, I mean, how do you how do you verify this? You know, it’s it’s hard to prove. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, it’s hard for sure. Now a couple things that I like. So we’re going to just go over a couple of herbs. You mentioned a couple you mentioned Siddha, acuta, crypto Lapis or cryptologist. However you want to pronounce that one. There’s a couple that are just really good, right? cat’s claws just a really good general herb. You talked about Japanese not word for knotweed for the resveratrol really, really good. Noni and neem also tend to be very, very good as well. Silver also tends to be very good for different in CO infections like babesia, we may want to do more silver with lime or borrelia burgdorferi, maybe more cat’s claw or Japanese knotweed for other types of infections like going down my list here. If we have other types of infection like ehrlichia, we may use more astragalus right. So different herbs are Different infections, different herbs but cat’s claws a good one to have in your medicine cabinet. neem is a good one to have in your medicine cabinet. And I would say cryptologist or Siddha, or resveratrol Japanese knotweed is excellent to have. 

Evan Brand: Yeah. And also, I’ve tried one called Otoba Bark. I believe it’s an AFM a Toba bark. It’s like a Brazil, some type of a Brazil tree. There was a guy named Dr. Marty. I’m trying to get him on the podcast. Really cool. Really cool guy, really smart guy. He talked about that. I bought some tincture and I tried it, man, that stuff is potent. So I can only handle like a few drops of it twice a day, but the otoba was supposed to be very, very anti borrelia as well. So if you’re somebody who’s been battling, you know, chronic, whether it’s like a nor neuro what they called neuro Borealis, where you’re having a lot of the cognitive stuff associated with Lyme, the ottobock can be helpful and then you mix that with cat’s claw, so and then not worry too because it’s so anti inflammatory for the brain. So yeah, I definitely noticed more my head gets more clear. If I do not wait, so.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, you could probably even do some little more curcumin as well to help.

Evan Brand: I’ve tried curcumin, hard to say that’s one of those supplements. For me, it’s hard to tell whether it’s doing much, but I know it’s helpful. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, everyone may respond a little bit differently for sure. So yeah, but it’s good, you know, we kind of throw them out there. And again, we’re not we’re kind of giving you guys some good general ideas on things. Just make sure if you have any of these issues work with a practitioner, so they can kind of help guide you through the process because it can get a little bit overwhelming. And there’s a lot of things you could do, it may not be necessary, right? So treating some of these infections acutely, maybe a little bit different than working with us on a functional medicine program. Because we work with people based on chronic health issues. There’s a different program that we may go after, compared to someone dealing with an issue a little bit more acute. So when we’re kind of triage the patients a little bit differently. And then of course, you know, if you get to the point where there’s a active Lyme issue that’s totally acute and you’re symptomatic right away. It may be reasonable to Look at doing a doxycycline antibiotic for two weeks or so. But again, I tried to stay away from the antibiotics unless it’s absolute last case scenario. So if it does get significant, or it’s acute, you may want to look at a doxycycline. But off the bat, our bias tends to always be going towards the herbs, indoor using some of the natural expectorants the you know, adsorbents right, bentonite clay with the andrographis over the tick bite seems like a really good first line for anyone with the tissue. 

Evan Brand: Yeah, and the problem with the antibiotics is most people they don’t know that their situations acute. You know it depending on what article you read. It’s such a low percentage of people that actually get the rash and all of that. So you could have these other kind of flu like symptoms that could be the early stages fatigue and whatever else and you’re not actually know that it’s live. So by the time it gets past that acute phase, you don’t even know and it kind of becomes chronic before you even know that you have it and if you go and do a DNA test for example, on the year You know, it may take few weeks or if you do blood, it may take a couple of weeks to get it done. So it’s so you’d have to really, really, really catch it early, I guess is all I’m saying? 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, with tick reports, you grab that tick and you send it off to the lab, you can get the results back in three days. So I wouldn’t be jumping on any antibiotics personally, unless you’re symptomatic. And you can test that ticking and it comes back positive with an infection.

Evan Brand: That’s the hard part too.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’d be jumping on the herbs first. I think the herbs are very, very effective. I think it just depends on how how significant it is, how acute it is, you know how much those symptoms ramp up. That’s the problem. The problem with a lot of Lyme stuff is a lot of the side effects of the antibiotics can also mirror Lyme symptoms, joint pain, fatigue, malaise, I mean, go look at doxycycline side effects. You’ll see a lot of those side effects mirror some of the Lyme symptoms so it becomes this well, if die off or is it just the antibiotic creating side effects. What is it right it becomes a little bit tough to to fret that out.

Evan Brand: True, true. Yeah. And I interviewed that guy, I want to say his name was Steven, the guy tick report. Anyway, I asked him the question of ticks. And I said, Okay, well, they’re averages around 51% of ticks contain contain line. So they’ve tested hundreds and thousands, hundreds of thousands. And I believe it’s a 51% positive rate for borrelia. So if you, if you get bit by two ticks, you know, basically, you’re probably going to get it because there’s 51% of the ticks habit, unless you go to-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -maybe an area thing to maybe an area maybe like, hey, true in this area, it’s 90%, you know, 10%, but this area, it’s 90%. Right? And then it just kind of averages out across the country. So it could be that that’s why I like sending some of your tics in and then you know, we kind of talked about your situation, right? Like you used to be hiking a lot in the forest and now we’re like, Alright, let’s cut out maybe a wider path in your backyard. So you can you can be going through there and not have all these branches or high grass hitting your legs and stuff. 

Evan Brand: Yeah, well, I was getting paid. And I was getting paid to you know, 2009 2010 I was getting paid to, to work in the woods. I love Did it was great, but man many times I brought home ticks, so no fun. No fun. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s not worth it now, though. 

Evan Brand: No, it’s not at all.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Because I think some of your chemical sensitivities because of these chronic infections.

Evan Brand: Oh, yeah, absolutely.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Yeah. So I try to be on top of that, I think some of the wondercide is great. And, you know, if you have a lot of woods in your backyard, try to have a nice little path cut for yourself. So you can go in there enjoy nature and not be these ticks jump on you. 

Evan Brand: ep, and burn. And this is not like, oh, work with a practitioner. I mean, yeah, we would love for you to work with us. We’re honored and blessed for the opportunity to help so many people. But we’re not saying that to just sell ourselves. We’re saying that because I can tell you personally and clinically, this stuff does get tricky. And you can definitely poke the what’s the analogy you could like poke the beehive so to speak with these bugs. So for example, if you have borrelia and you have bartonella and you try to go after, let’s say borrelia first and not the CO infection, the CO infection may take you down Because the stress of killing can weaken you a little bit so you may kind of knock down one you know, play whack a mole, you may knock down one infection, and then the other infection can kind of take you down and more symptoms ramp up there. So you really want to be able to check in with somebody where you can know oh, this popped up. Okay, we may need to switch gears because if you’re stubborn, you’re just going to go go go and try to do all this yourself. And it may extend your timeline, and it can definitely extend your suffering. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100% Yep, I totally agree. Anything else Evan, you want to highlight here today? I mean, I think we’re on the right track. couple of questions came in what’s your insight for pregnant women passing worms? Just depends. There’s some herbals to do it. I probably would stay away from the herbs if you’re pregnant. There’s some medications like me bandas or albendazole slash vermox. You don’t really take them that long. Usually you take them, you know, one to two times a day for two days and then you wait two weeks and take it again. I’m not sure about the safety profile of that if you’re pregnant. You have To talk to your prescribing doctor and then there are some natural things like diatomaceous earth foodgrade, that may be okay because it’s kind of more dehydrating the worms, exoskeleton, and it’s primarily going to stay in your intestinal tract. But if you’re pregnant, you know, all bets are off. So my general recommendation is try to treat these things ahead of time. If you are going to get pregnant, so you go into pregnancy with a good gut, if you have an acute issue, you know, you really want to talk to your conventional medical doctor, look up the safety profile of those simple worm meds, and then maybe some of the more gentle binders, but you’d have to do a little more research on that. And the question can we use herbs in the mouth gargling brushing for gums like amoebiasis or inflammation? You definitely can. There’s a product that I use called dental Sidon, you can use the liposomal formula. That’s great. You can also gargle with silver as well. You can even do a 3% hydrogen peroxide as well gargle with that but that those are some really good options. Thought Evan? 

Evan Brand: Yeah, the the pregnancy question that one’s tough, because A lot of herbs are off the table during pregnancy. So I guess the question would be, you know, how far along is she. And then you could always wait until you have the baby. There are many, many more things on the table that are safe while nursing that are not safe during pregnancy, mainly because nobody’s going to do the study on them. So I’ve worked with many, many, many pregnant women, but the general recommendation is, hey, depending on how bad it is, like olive leaf has pretty good safety profile olive leaf has some general antimicrobial benefits. So may or may not be in firepower, but we probably just try to, you know, get that woman as comfortable as we can through pregnancy, get her to the nursing phase, and then that would open up the door for a lot more herbs. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Like even me bandsaws not really studied during pregnancy. So I would try not to do anything personally while pregnant unless it’s 100% necessary and it’s a cute and then on that note, I mean what I do with diet tomato, I probably stick to a D food grade over anything else. But that’s just me. I mean, it just comes down to have to weigh your options about how acute The issue is and Kind of where you’re at in the pregnancy because if you can wait always wait through. 

Evan Brand: Yeah, the D is good. We use that for my daughter when she had pinworms, and they were super resistant to the parental that conventional drug we didn’t want to use it but the the herbs we tried didn’t work. So we brought up the D and it and it cleared it up. So I know like even in young kids, for example to maybe she has some concern about possibly that the baby having some kind of worm issue, you know, I would just get through the pregnancy and-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You know, what should you do, though? You know, you know, do that be really good. You could do some pumpkin seeds, pumpkin seeds should be fine during pregnancy and that would also have a natural deworming effect. I would do pumpkin seeds that has a natural compound in there called Kurt cucur byton cucur byton and it paralyzes the worm and helps the body eliminated. So pumpkin seeds would probably be your safe one. If you needed a natural support to get rid of it because pumpkin seeds I don’t think are contraindicated to seed right? any food that’s contrary to you, so that would probably be your safest bet. If you Support now. Nice but again, this is not medical advice, just purely entertainment. So talk to your prescribing doctor ob and or functional doc.

Evan Brand: Yep, sounds like easy to implement and who knows, maybe it works. Maybe it’s not in the firepower But hey, can’t hurt. Don’t kid definitely can’t hurt.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Anything else you want to highlight today. So we went over like the common stuff that we see in the summertime we have all the ticks in the coinfections. We went over triage care with that topical, we talked about a couple of internal things. Before you go internal definitely reach out to a good functional medicine doc. We talked about the grd and the crypto. We talked about some preventative and how we go after that. And then the testing for that being the GM app, put the link down below. We talked about preventative stuff to make your yard safer to get rid of a lot of the past and the insects and the ticks and the fleas. We talked about how we can actually test some of the ticks to see what kind of infections your yard may carry and what kind of profile your yard has. That way you can kind of have a lot of this stuff on hand if your yards heavily Borriello or bartonella you can have those things on hand maybe even be preventively taking some of these things are in the summer. And you can take some extra precaution to get some of the natural essential oils down to kind of create a buffer zone to keep these bugs out of your yard. 

Evan Brand: Yep, yep. No, it’s all great. I asked the guy when I talked with him, man, can you guys plot all this stuff on the map? I’d love to see an interactive map with all their 50,000 plus test test points and kind of click around and click on the states and see a map of where all the infections are. That’d be cool. But he said they hadn’t implemented it yet. That was several years ago. That’d be a cool feature, though. It would because then, you know, hey, if I’m in Austin, Texas, and you could see like a lot of borrelia right, there are a lot of bartonella right there then you can kind of use that data accordingly. That would be awesome. Well, if you need help clinically, we work with people around the world. So please don’t hesitate reach out. We’re here to help and we’re honored and grateful for the opportunity to do so. You can reach Dr. Justin at JustinHealth.com, me, Evan Brand at EvanBrand.com We’ll talk to y’all next week. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And if you guys enjoyed the content thumbs up really appreciate it put your comments down below let me know your experience with different summertime infections really like to understand that we’re available worldwide and also if you guys don’t mind if you’re really enjoying the content, head over to EvanBrand.com/iTunes or JustinHealth.com/iTunes and write us a review. We really appreciate kind of getting the word out. Our review really helps it gives us more credibility and well you know, we appreciate you guys learning and sharing it with your friends and family so everyone can be a little bit healthier. Anything else, Evan? 

Evan Brand: No, that’s it. Have a great day. 

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Take care everyone. Bye y’all. 

Evan Brand: Bye bye.


References:

https://justinhealth.com/

Audio Podcast:

https://justinhealth.libsyn.com/podcast-summer-time-parasite-infections-lyme-podcast-296


The entire contents of this website are based upon the opinions of Dr. Justin Marchegiani unless otherwise noted. Individual articles are based upon the opinions of the respective author, who retains copyright as marked. The information on this website is not intended to replace a one-on-one relationship with a qualified health care professional and is not intended as medical advice. It is intended as a sharing of knowledge and information from the research and experience of Dr. Justin and his community. Dr. Justin encourages you to make your own health care decisions based upon your research and in partnership with a qualified healthcare professional. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. Dr. Marchegiani’s products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. If you are pregnant, nursing, taking medication, or have a medical condition, consult your physician before using any products.