Magnesium Deficiency Causes and Solutions

Magnesium Deficiency Causes and Solutions

By: Dr. Justin Marchegiani

Magnesium is essential for proper function of over 300 enzymatic reactions and for the performance of many vital physiological functions: from heartbeat regulation to muscle contraction and relaxation. Magnesium is crucial to the body and plays a part in almost every facet of your well-being and that is why a magnesium deficiency can be responsible for almost every symptom dragging you down.



  • Boosts memory function
  • Muscle relaxation and sleep
  • Regulates mood and stress
  • Manages the excitability of the nervous system (calming)
  • Blood sugar control
  • Healthy bone density
  • Cardiovascular support
  • Detoxification pathways in the liver
  • Normal gut function
  • Inhibits calcium-induced cell death
  • Helps prevent osteoporosis, needed for bone formation
  • Vital for proper transcription of DNA and RNA

 A study on magnesium for insomnia in the elderly found that supplementation of magnesium improves insomnia through several measures, including sleep efficiency, sleep time, and concentration of melatonin.



Due to soil depletion and the omnipresence of processed foods, magnesium is becoming hard to find in the average American’s diet. Even within the health-conscious, high rates of prescription medications and antibiotic use lead to digestive disorders and impaired gut function, causing malabsorption of not only magnesium, but of minerals and nutrients in general, despite an otherwise clean diet.

Watching sugar and caffeine intake is important to ensure proper absorption of magnesium. Fluoride in our water supply can also negatively affect magnesium absorption.

A magnesium deficiency can cause:

  • Muscles aches and spasms
  • Poor digestion
  • Anxiety
  • Trouble sleeping and insomnia
  • Kidney and liver damage
  • Hypertension
  • Cardiovascular disease
  • Multiple Sclerosis
  • Alzheimer’s
  • Worsened PMS
  • Behavioral disorders
  • Mood swings
  • Osteoporosis
  • Depressed immune system
  • Cavities
  • Muscle weakness and cramps
  • Heart arrhythmias
  • Headaches
  • Nausea
  • Depression

…and pretty much everything else you don’t want. Neurosurgeon Dr. Norman Shealy says ,“Every known illness is associated with a magnesium deficiency […] A magnesium deficiency may be responsible for more diseases than any other nutrient.”

A study by the British Journal of Cancer in December 2015 looked at the incidents of pancreatic cancer by magnesium intake categories of 66,000 men and women, aged 50-76. It found that for every 100mg per day of magnesium less that was consumed, your risk for pancreatic cancer went up by 24%.

If you are concerned about a magnesium deficiency or have other health queries, book your intro consult today with Dr. Justin:



  • Leafy greens
  • Nuts and seeds
  • Fish, such as mackerel and salmon, especially eating some of the very small bones
  • Green beans
  • Avocado
  • Banana
  • High quality dark chocolate (It’s postulated that women crave dark chocolate around the start of their period because the magnesium helps with cramps and PMS symptoms)
  • Epsom salt baths are excellent as you have a large surface area (your skin) taking in the magnesium. Try 1-2 cups of Epsom salt (which is basically magnesium sulfate) in your bath for some incredibly relaxing effects.
  • An alternate mode of relaxation through magnesium would be to hop into a float tank. Taking in about a thousand pounds of Epsom salt in about 10 inches of water leaves you feeling incredible.
  • An alternate mode of relaxation through magnesium would be to hop into a float tank. Taking in about a thousand pounds of Epsom salt in about 10 inches of water leaves you feeling incredible.


  • Magnesium oxide only has about a 4% absorption rate and is comparable to table chalk. It’s cheap, easy to find, and works well as a laxative.
  • Magnesium citrate, as you find in such products as Natural Calm, is a step above magnesium oxide. It’s also rather inexpensive, works as a laxative, with a higher absorption rate.
  • Magnesium malate is very well-absorbed and acts as a calming agent rather than a laxative.
  • Magnesium glycinate is also calming without the laxative effect. It is well-absorbed as it binds to the amino acid glycine. The glycinate form tends to provide the highest levels of absorption and bioavailability, and therefore is ideal for those trying to correct a deficiency.
  • Magnesium threonate is a newer form which seems promising due to its ability to cross the blood-brain barrier and mitochondrial membrane.


If you are looking to get some extra magnesium into your diet, try Magnesium Supreme ( a relaxing 50/50 blend of Magnesium malate and Magnesium glycinate.

To listen to Dr. Justin’s podcast with Evan Brand on magnesium, check out podcast #93:


Yasmina Ykelenstam – Are histamines wreaking havoc on your health – Podcast #106

Dr. Justin Marchegiani interviews health journalist, Yasmina Ykelenstam, in this podcast episode where they go into an in depth discussion about histamine, diet and foods that you may want to keep an eye out for. There are a lot of knowledge bombs dropped in this conversation about inflammation and other gut issues so be sure to tune in and listen closely. 

Learn about the different types of histamine and the symptoms associated with histamine intolerance. Find out how Yasmina got around to getting her life and her health back on track after being diagnosed with histamine intolerance (HIT). Discover how good nutrition helped her cope with her health challenges and get a load of all the brain candy which may be the answers you’re looking for when you listen to this interview.


In this episode, topics include:Yasmina Ykelenstam low histamine chef yasmina

11:15   Testing histamine

19:00   Histamine symptoms

32:03   Histamine categories

36:33   Histamine offenders

43:20   Summary and recommendations








Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Hey, there! It’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani with Beyond Wellness Radio. We have an awesome guest today. I’ve had a couple of my patients who are dealing with histamine issues, so back by popular demand, we have one of the biggest histamines experts out there, Yasmina Ykelenstam is here on the show.  Yasmina is a former CNN producer. She had her own health challenges where she was able to come up with dietary changes; part of that was cutting out gluten and also reducing histamine from her diet and she has a great site over at— Great references. Great blog articles there. So everyone, head over there and check it out. But Yasmina, welcome to the show. How you doin’ today?

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  I am doing wonderful. Thank you so much for having me. I’m really excited to be here. I’m a big fan of your work.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Thanks a lot and me as well. I mean, you got a great site up here. I mean, one of the things I see in my functional medicine practice is that I see a lot of patients with histamine issues and we’ll talk about what that is in a bit. But one of the triggers that I see is parasites. People come in, they have a lot of gut bugs which typically equals a lot of inflammation. The more inflamed your gut is, it’s like a ticking time bomb for histamine and I know one of your most recent blog kinda touched upon that, so that really hit close to home for me. So I wanna to just kind of get everyone to get a sense of where you are in this journey. Because you were a producer, you were in media, how did you get over into this natural health side of the world?

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Ah, well, my body broke down basically and I thought I was dying. And I—I really didn’t have a choice. I mean, I’ve never liked cooking. I—I mean I was always kind of interested in health but I’ve, you know, to me health meant buying an organic pizza from Whole Foods, you know?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  And—and having an organic – with it?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  You know, that kind of thing. And so it was really kinda fooling with myself thinking that I was doing the right thing for my body but so it was really all born out of necessity. I mean, for me, stress is my biggest trigger in addition to other issues. But really stress, so working as a journalist in war zones was really not the smartest thing I could for myself and a huge part of the, you know, recovery process was learning how to manage this stress, but you know, the kinda of emotional aspect of it but also the physical aspect and you know, it was born of necessity as it is for so many of us, you know, the kind of wounded healer archetype that is so apt for–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yup.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  So many of us.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Absolutely.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  And—and so you know, I started my journey in a very kind of methodical journalistic way, just trying to apply everything I had used as a journalist, you know, I interned at 60 minutes. I worked for the BBC. I started out as a researcher, you know, and then worked my way up to a producer so I was very familiar with kind of intensive like research sessions that go on for you know, 12 hours at a time, when—when–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Mmm.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Pursuing a story and I wanted to do something different with my blog which was—I mean maybe not different, but there aren’t many bloggers who kind of approached things from the scientific standpoint–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Which is, you know, we’re not doctors, but we’re you know, looking at the medical studies that come out–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  And sharing that information with readers so that they can make better informed decisions with their physicians rather than trying to go at it alone. For example, with this parasite thing that I just recently blogged about, showing that parasites are a major trigger of histamine-related inflammation–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  In the body. So you have all of these inflammation symptoms. You know, doctors can’t really pin down. You may be misdiagnosed with other issues and you know, maybe then you find out it’s a parasite issue but your doctor maybe doesn’t wanna test you for parasites which is where somewhere like—someone like you would come along in functional medicine who is more open to kind of thinking out of the box and accepting that, you know, sometimes we need to look beyond the tip of our nose for an explanation and but you know, so the—the information that I share in my post on parasites for example, you know, touches upon different ways of treating them. You know, what tests to ask your doctor for, but also I say, you know, I’m not a doctor, so I’m not sharing exact dosages of herbs that—that you might go out and try and treat yourself with because that’s not the aim of this blog. It’s just to share the information with you so you can share it with other people who are better informed to make those medical decisions with you.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  That’s great. So you started having these health challenges back I think in the mid-2000s, you mentioned I think you were oven in Iraq, and how did you come across the histamine approach? Because histamine’s—it’s—it’s getting more popular but 10 years ago, it had to have been more nuance. I mean, Paleo was just kinda coming out. You had the gluten-free thing kinda happening, too. So how did you grab the—the low histamine piece and make that your niche?

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Ooh, wow! That was a—that was sheer luck. That was–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:   Hmm.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Unbelievable. I literally just—I lost my mind after tracking my symptoms and which foods were bothering me–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  For about 6 months, and then I finally just put everything into Google and it just came up with a forum where I met this wonderful woman who was also a blogger and she was in contact with a practitioner in London who tested for histamine issues. So I flew from Bangkok to London, I think it was a few days later to—to get tested and—and that happened. I—I received a diagnosis of histamine intolerance which was too much histamine in my blood, too little of the histamine degrading enzyme in the body–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yup.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Diamine oxidase–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yup, DAO. Yup. Uh-hmm.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  DAO and you know, some people may not know this but histamine is necessary for healing. It’s used as a neurotransmitter. It’s necessary for digestion. You know, histamine is a good thing. You know? Too much histamine is a bad thing. You know, without histamine we wouldn’t be able to fend of viruses or you know, fight bacterial infections or parasites for example. But at the time that I was diagnosed, there was absolutely no information out there and I mean, it was—it was actually quite distressing. There was literally nothing. I was researching and researching and researching. There was one paper at the time and that was pretty much it. But slowly, slowly I started looking deeper into the medical journals and you know, I found out histamine was related to mast cells which were part of the white blood system and that, you know, the origin of histamine release is actually from mast cells–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  As well as foods.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  So and that’s where I came up with this idea that turned out to be transformative. I mean, it completely changed my life that avoiding histamine containing foods wasn’t going to heal me. It was an overall anti-inflammatory diet with the focus on excellent nutrition that was going to.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Great points. Yeah, one of the things I always tell my patients is kinda this metaphor of the histamine bucket, and basically in that bucket environmental toxins kind of fill up in that bucket. Dietary stress fills up in that bucket. Various drugs or hormonal imbalance or nutritional deficiencies or infections, they fill up that bucket and so essentially some of the histamine foods or the higher histamine foods can just be enough to overflow that bucket and a lot of those symptoms start to occur, whether it’s the urticaria or hives, or whether it’s just fatigue or skin issues, or brain fog, etc. and it’s interesting because it’s never just one thing, like the parasite article or some of the higher histamine foods, it tends to be a couple of different things. And—and what are those couple of things that you—that were specific to you and most of the people that write to you?

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Well, I look at it—the histamine bucket is an excellent analogy—analogy, metaphor, I always get those mixed up—it’s—for me, it’s the inflammation bucket in the end–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Which is that things like–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yes, I like that.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Gluten–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Become a problem, because you know, the latest research shows that weak—that certain people cannot—are not celiac–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  But still have an immediate, acute inflammatory reaction that it—a systemic reaction. So for me, you know, things like gluten, even pets, hay fever, I mean just being exposed to pollen, you know, but for me, stress—stress was really, really the biggest–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Trigger and you know, I eventually figured out that I could provoke an inflammatory reaction that was very severe just by experiencing some kind of major stress and then I realize that being stressed while eating was a huge issue and that’s–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Where the whole amygdala thing comes in.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  You know? And you know, I realized that if I was able to stay calm while enjoying my food or actually just enjoying my food, not eating a desk, not eating on the run, not worrying about what food was going to do to me, instead focusing on the positives of the food–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  As long as I was able to do that, that made a huge difference.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, that whole Fight of Flight nervous system response really messes up your body’s ability to—to digest and break down foods. So every time you can be on that parasympathetic state, you get more enzymes, you get more hydrochloric acid. There’s a better chance of you breaking down that food fully and being able to utilize it nutritionally.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Exactly. There was a very interesting study. It was a few year’s old but it was about rat brains and they—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Cool.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  They put rats in front of—and they had to open cages to get to their food and they measured the release of brain histamine. When the rats had to figure out how to get to their food or experience any kind of stress, there was a significant release of histamine in the brain.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Mmm.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  When they were given free access to food and didn’t have to work anything out have any kind of stress, there was no release of histamine in the brain. Now they were only measuring histamine in the brain in this particular study but it’s not unreasonable to—to think that, you know, it might be systemic rather than just in the brain.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  That’s excellent. I love the brain candy, so good. You really—you really referenced a lot of these scientific studies which is great. It makes it a really good reference not only for patients but also for physicians. I mean, you have this really good blog up here now. I’m looking at it and it’s talking about testing for histamine. And this is really interesting because I typically don’t do a lot of testing for histamine unless I have a lot of overt symptoms. Typically we do a lot of food elimination and if we pull out certain foods, or we see probiotic intolerance or we cut out fermented vegetables or the higher histamine foods, or teas or—or DAO-blocking foods and see improvements. That’s kind of how I clinically diagnose, but you talked about of couple of different tests on your site. You talked about testing histamine plasma, looking at DAO or diamine oxidase.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Right, well, I–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Go ahead. Uh-hmm.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  The goals and­—sorry.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  You’re good.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  The—indeed, the golden standard for diagnosis is still considered to be responsiveness–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  On the elimination diet and when I run workshops, I tell people that, you know, working with a doctor obviously but to keep very detailed food diaries and to figure out what’s bothering you and that’s—that’s kind of your approach, rather than just saying, “Well, I think I have a histamine issues. I’m not just gonna eat any histamine foods because–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  The—the food lists tell me this.”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  It’s kind of like figure out your own sensitivity and, you know, I—I tell people to—to put them in a spreadsheet, you know, from the foods you are least reactive to, to most reactive to, and then work towards trying to incorporate foods from the further list on a very long rotation and the ones that you are least reactive to more regularly, obviously.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  But the—the testing that exists at the moment for histamine intolerance is only the—the plasma levels of histamine.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Which are unreliable because histamine fluctuates wildly throughout–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yup.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  The day and throughout the week and obviously if you haven’t been eating high histamine foods, the amount of histamine in your plasma is gonna be different and then we have also the diamine oxidase test which is also fairly unreliable because, I mean, when I look at the research about DAO, there’s still not entirely sure as to how it’s actually working with the histamine whether it’s indicative of high histamine levels or that’s just enough DAO for some people and also it fluctuates depending on what you’ve eaten and whether you have enough nutrients to manufacture the DAO of that particular day. So the—the 2 tests that we have that most people may be familiar with, the practitioners that—that are going them–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yup.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Are unreliable, which is why the elimination diet is the standard.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yup.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  When we’re talking about mast cell activation which is a related disorder that doctor Afrin one of the leading specialists in the field has—he wrote a book recently and he says that it’s believed that maybe 1 in 6 Americans suffers from some kind of mast cell activation. Now mast cells as part of the white blood cell system as you know, but just for–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yup.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Just for anybody out there listening, mast cells are part of the white blood cell system and within them are contained histamine, interleukins, heparin, prostaglandins which are all inflammatory molecules. They’re needed for healing but when mast cells become activated such as provoked. Let’s say you’re—you have an allergy.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  And—and so the mast cells break open, process called degranulation–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  And they splurged these inflammatory molecules all through the body and they cause inflammation. Now if you need that, if it’s not provoked by allergy, by stress or by trigger foods or by medications that are inappropriate or whatever it is, then we have too much inflammation in other kinds of, you know, inflammation in the body which is another reason that I don’t focus on just a low histamine diet, because we have other types of inflammation in the body. There are foods that correspond to prostaglandins and interleukins also. So we can either drive ourselves insane following you know, a hundred different lists or do what you do—if I have switches to work out our individual triggers and go from there.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  That’s great.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Oh, so sorry. For testing for mast cell activation is fairly difficult because you need to find an immunologist who’s willing to test you for it. I’ve had situations where people have gone to doctors and attempted to pay out of pocket and been told that they would not give them some tests which is frankly something I’ve really just don’t understand. At least they could give them a referral to somebody else who would be willing—because I accept that people need to work with a—with a physician.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  But you know, refer them to somebody who’s open to working with them on it, just don’t tell them mast cell activation is so rare which it absolutely isn’t, that you know, it’s not worth testing, you know. So for mast cell activation, we have as you know, basic inflammatory panels, you know, for the—for the molecules that I just mentioned a moment ago and—and yeah, I’m hoping that more doctors will—will start getting into these tests but they are very expensive and most are not available on insurance which is why many people don’t offer it even if they’re open to it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And is that the mastocytosis you’re referring to when you had that just accelerated histamine in the body? Is that where you’re looking to get diagnosed by your conventional doctor with?

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  No, actually, well, there—mastocytosis is one of them. We have—we have histamine intolerance. We have mast cell activation which is just the unstable mast cells, then we have mastocytosis which is a more serious incarnation of mast—well, people with mast cell activation would be happy to hear me say that because they can be just as severe.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  But the mastocytosis is linked to a type of leukemia called systemic mastocytosis, technically, a myeloperative—I can never pronounce this.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yup, yup.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  And incarnation, but so we have different—they’re all linked. They differ—they can differ in intensity, severity, and progress but they are linked by the mast cells and by the histamine. Mastocytosis is believed to be rare.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  As is the systemic obviously highly rare, but mast cell activation on the other hand—the—can be triggered by so many different things, as we said the parasites, the stress–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  The—you know, exposure to chemicals which is why it’s becoming more and more common because we just live in a more toxic world generally.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm, right. So like mastocytosis is kinda like the pathological expression vs the histamine intolerance is kinda more of the—the functional kind of impression where you go to a conventional doctor, they may not even recognize it because it’s more in that functional realm where the mastocytosis is more of that in the pathological realm. Is that correct?

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Absolutely. I—I would love to see more functional doctors getting into the mast cell activation because that seems to be exceedingly common and I have so many people who—who have turned out to—who have gotten their diagnosis and it’s really quite astonishing.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I agree and I like how you hit the inflammation piece. You talked about some of the prostaglandins and we know like prostaglandin E2 is one of the ones that’s more of the inflammatory. We get that with a lot of refined vegetable oils, excess sugar. You also talked about a lot of the immune system upregulation that happens. Well, we have 5 kinds of immune cells typically. In—in doctorate school, we—we learn them by the acronym. At least I did, Never Let Monkeys Eat Bananas. Neutrophils, Lymphocytes, Eosinophils, Monocytes, and Basophils—and a lot of them live in the—in the gut, in the MALT and the GALT. They’re inside the—the gut lining. And the big ones are the basophils and these guys in your blood cell, they’re basophils but when they go into your tissue, they become mast cells and mast cells just they—they are the ones that erupt the histamine like you mentioned and histamine’s job is to vasodilate so blood can get in there to help heal, but what’s happening as you mentioned before, Yasmina, is the chronic inflammation that histamine’s just coming out all the time and then you’re getting all of the symptoms of—well, let’s touch upon that. Let’s talk about what are the common histamine symptoms that you’re seeing with people and yourself?

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  The common symptoms are—okay, let’s see, there’s just—there’s absolutely dozens but here are the most common ones.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Migraines, dizziness, brain fog, acid reflux, severe gastric distress, severe bloating of the stomach, inability to pass stools or the opposite, diarrhea, some—some people present with bladder problems. It’s linked to interstitial cystitis by Dr. Theoharides at Tufts.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yup.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Who is the director of immunopharmacology there and he actually makes a supplement for mast cell disorders called NeuroProtek and there’s another called CystoProtek–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Mmm.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Which is specifically for people with—with bladder issues. I take NeuroProtek myself.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Got it.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Let’s see, what else—there is—those are the biggies. Rashes, you know, urticaria–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, the hives. Uh-hmm.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  What else? Hives, severe exhaustion–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Like a chronic fatigue type—type of exhaustion and in fact, many people are diagnosed with chronic fatigue and there is a mast cell link to there as there is to many different things and those are the biggies.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Got it.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  I would say—and, oh and obviously, intolerance just to foods, food allergy like symptoms, hay fever–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  That kind of thing and the thing is, testing for allergies will often come back negative.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm. Yup, like even–

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Which confuses people understandably.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, even like an IgG or an IgA test will still—those delayed one will still kinda come back negative, right?

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Exactly. You know, my entire life, my test results have unfailingly come back absolutely normal which is why I have been pegged as a hypochondriac and you know, told that it’s psychosomatic, it’s all stress–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  And while they were kind of right, stress is involved–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  There were very definite issues that people were missing because they were convinced that it was on my head because I was in perfect health.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right, and I find, too, with a lot of the food allergy stuff, typically all the inflammation like you mentioned earlier we get this phenomenon known as leaky gut or in the medical litera—literature, gastrointestinal permeability where those tight junctions open up and you get all these undigested food particles and even histamine getting into the bloodstream and so you come back with this test of all these food allergens, you switch your diet around, but guess what? If the—the gut’s still permeable, then you just develop more food allergies, so it’s kinda like playing Whack A Mole.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Exactly. Exactly, that’s it. I try to explain that to so many people and yes, there is some research I came across recently that—that kinda blew my mind which is at that how you cook your food affects allergenicity–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Mmm.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  First of all–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  But also can cause mast cell activation even if you don’t actually have a genetic mast cell activation disorder, so for—and it was advance—AGEs—advanced glycation end products.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  That really lovely, crust that you get–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Crème Brulee.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  When you cook something in the oven and you broil it.  Ex–oh, crème brulee.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Wow. Yes, exactly. Crème brulee, you know, potatoes, you know.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yup.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Anything, it’s—it’s the process of sugar combining with—with fat and browning.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  And so these AGEs contribute to intestinal permeability, aka leaky gut, through the process of mast cell activation and there was more research on how quercetin, which the—the thing that I take, quercetin helps heal the tight junction permeability of the gut and also, ah, the other one, emulsifiers.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Mmm.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Emulsifiers causing mast cell activation of the gut but something that really, really blew my mind was that, for example, strongly roasting peanuts–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  According to this one study, typically increases their allergenicity by 30%.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Wow, so we–

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Oh, sorry. No, I have that wrong. Sorry. Sorry. When compared with raw food antigens–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  IgE antibodies were elevated four-fold against processed food antigens in 30% of humans. So 30% of humans experience a four-fold increase in allergenicity when food is cooked. When ro—when peanuts are roasted. Sorry.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So if you’re gonna have your nuts–

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  But peanuts are already highly allergenic.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Got it. So if you’re gonna have your nuts, you wanna soak your nuts essentially.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Exactly.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Alright.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Which, you know, everyone’s been telling us for a while. But you know, some of us don’t listen.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah and it makes sense because things like a lot of those foods are very high in phytates or oxylates and a lot of these mineral blockers and enzyme disruptors so that kinda make sense, that that—those soaking methods and I know, I think it’s Sally Fallon’s book, what is it? Something traditions. She talks about a lot of the–

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Oh, I don’t–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I think it’s Nourishing Tradition. That’s the book and she talks about soaking the nuts and thinks like that and helping to deactivate a lot of those things, so these old type of cooking things kinda make sense when the science kinda looks at the nitty-gritty so to speak.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Oh, absolutely and you mentioned something super topical which is the ox—oxylates–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Mmm.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  And for me oxalic acid turned out to be a huge piece of the puzzle. I focused on histamine for so long I wasn’t seeing the wood for the trees.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  And, you know, oxalic acid, you know, found in kale. You know, all the world’s healthiest–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Foods, chards, all the histamine foods but oxalic acid, you know, and I explained it to people like this. So oxalic acid is a plant-irritant protection mechanism as you know.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  And, you know, along with salicylates, fructose–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  And—and you know, other things, so the way I explained it, the inflammation bucket as I look at it is we—we are the giant bucket–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Obviously, as with the histamine bucket, and within us we have lots of tiny little buckets. So we have the fructose bucket, the oxalate bucket, the salicylates, you know, all these different little buckets of things, tyramine bucket, all these different things that are found in foods that have the potential to cause inflammation. Well, it just takes one of those little buckets to spill over, for the entire bucket to spill over and cause inflammatory—an inflammatory response. The gluten bucket, the whatever bucket. So you might think that, “Oh well, I’m on a low histamine diet, but I’m still spilling over. I’m still spilling over.” It might be because your salicyclate bucket is full.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  But your histamine bucket is empty. So as I tell people, it’s really important to eat a wide variety of foods, and to kind of keep track in your head. Initially, I tell people, you know, use a spreadsheet, write out a weekly meal planner, you know, be aware of the different lists that foods fall into and combine them. I call it the balance plate. So you’ll have a little bit of high salicylate foods, a little bit of low salicylate foods, high histamine, you know, a little bit of low histamine, and just combine it all into one day.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  So that you make sure that you are not making any one of those little buckets overflow.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Really good points. Really good points. I’m gonna put you on the spot. What’s your diet like right now? Because of the things I start off with my patients is typically a Paleo template and then we’ll add on different layers to it, whether it’s like a low salicylate or oxalate kinda thing, with like a specific carbohydrate diet or kind of a GAPS approach or a low FODMAP or even autoimmune approach. I’m just curious to kinda figure out what diet you kinda created for yourself now.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  My diet is in transition at the moment because I’m traveling for the next few months–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  And that always make things a little bit difficult. I find myself relying more of proteins when I travel–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  yup.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Because that’s what I can get easily in restaurants or you know, I can pop in to Whole Foods–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yup.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  And buy a—a piece of chicken, you know, some parsnips—not parsnips, sorry, beets.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yup.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  I’m thinking of England here. Beet roots and fat, but I consider myself normally to be—I—I don’t really use labels but it would—the closest thing it would be is a plant-based Paleo but not entirely plant-based. So I would say that I’s maybe 70% plant-based with 30% proteins and fats and what’s not. I’m—I’m not including fats there basically. But, you know, for me–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  A typical day is I would wake up. I will have a—a green smoothie–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  With very little fruits–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Or a juice with very little fruit.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  And you know, maybe some nuts because I’m not a big eater during the day.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yup.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  For lunch, it’ll be a—a salad with lots of different greens like all of these different very green greens like 5 or 6 different kinds, cucumber, you know, carrots, lots of anti-histamine and anti-inflammatory herbs like thyme, cilantro, basil, parsley, you know, all chopped up. You know, make a nice dressing with maybe a tablespoon—a teaspoon of mustard which will probably be too high histamine for people–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Starting out but it’s fine for me. I’ll add maybe a little bit of protein to that, usually a piece of fish or something like that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  And then dinner, you know, maybe some noodles made from zucchini.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  With a white bean sauce or I go more protein and you know, more salad, lots of vegetables, just you know, whole foods. My diet changes–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  You know depending on where I’m traveling to.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  What I’m currently doing. Lentil pasta, I love lentil pasta.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Mmm.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Pasta made out of lentils, it’s just amazing. But I find myself always wanting to—I find myself drawn to the higher protein idea. But the problem is that when I look at the longevity studies, for example the ones coming out of the University of Southern California–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Under Dr. Valter Longo–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  All of the life extension studies and disease prevention studies seem to indicate that a lower protein diet is what we want to be focusing on.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  But of course, that doesn’t take into account different age groups and you know, different—different protein needs over the years.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  You know, but that—that is something that’s always in the back of my mind when I go higher protein and all of the studies showing that, you know, the lower rates of disease in vegans and vegetarians. Obviously, there’s problems with all of these studies. There’s a problem with every study if you look hard enough.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  But so maybe my—my—I’m skewed towards the ones that lean towards more plant-based diet because that’s usually my personal preference. I just—I don’t like eating too many animals, it’s I feel bad for the animals.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I—I totally get it. But one of the things that I wish those studies really took into account is number one, typically a lot of people that are—are more plant-based tend to be more healthy to begin with. They’re—they’re more conscious of being active.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  True.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Or avoiding sugar and avoiding alcohol, so you kinda have that biased, too. And the next one is that we really don’t classify what kind of meat. Like are we talking grass-fed, organic meat or we’re talking grain-fed which means a whole bunch of histamine, too, right? And then a whole bunch of–

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Oh yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Antibiotics and pesticides, and I think that really matters, too. What’s your opinion on the quality of the meat?

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Oh, absolutely essential. I mean, I—I actually had quite an amusing moment. I mean grass-fed always top preference.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  You know, budget-permitting obviously.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  And I—I tend avoid chicken unless I’m traveling because of what they’re fed.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Because of you know, corn being allergenic–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  And the Omega 6 and you know, all of that. And I tend to focus on grass-fed meats, and you know, lamb and things like that and but it was amusing to me, because when I was in France—I lived there for a year recently, and I went into this supermarket. I went to the butcher and I said, you know, in French, “Could you tell me which of your meats are grass-fed?” And he looked and he burst out laughing and he said–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Hmm.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  “But madam, what else would we feed them?”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  And I thought that was just an amazing answer. Of course, they eat grass.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right. Exactly. I know, over here in the US, it’s amazing. It’s totally flipped, right?

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Oh, absolutely. Yes.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  I’m—I’m terrified when I see some of the things that they’re feeding cattle.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I know. Well, it’s getting better because people are putting their dollars, you know, where their mouth is so to speak and they’re demanding it which is great and we’re getting more access in a lot of these stores. That’s at least a good shift that’s happening.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Absolutely, if only it didn’t cost so much then we could include more people on this quest for health. That would be amazing. But you know, slowly.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Slowly. Exactly. You know, when I–

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Hopefully, one day.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, absolutely. Now when I educate my patients on histamines, I kinda break them into like 3 categories. Now I don’t wanna be too nary, if I go over the top, you know, I’ll back up a little bit. But we kinda have like histamines that are just foods that are high in histamines. Like the foods, histamines actually in the food. Then we have like histamine-releasing foods where there may not be a lot of histamine in it but it stimulates a release. And then we have like the histamine enzyme blocking food, the—the DAO or the DAO—the diamine oxidase blocking foods. So I just kinda wanted you to touch upon them briefly and just—I have a list in front of me. I don’t expect you to remember it, but it’s quite a list but the foods that are higher in histamines are gonna be like your nuts and your vinegars and your fermented foods and your aged meats and citrus. The foods that are gonna be histamine-releasing are gonna be like more of milk, chocolate–

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Citrus choc–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Citrus fruits, bingo. Yeah, you got it. And then the blocking foods are gonna be like your teas and—and such. But what’s your take on that? Just in general.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  I mean, you know, it’s difficult because unless you’ve done genetic testing–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  For example, I mean you know, you can—you know, you can figure out if your DAO is impaired or if your HNMT, the histamine-methyl transferase–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Which is the other histamine degrading enzyme which is only possible to figure out via genetic testing.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  And also you need to look at the MAO genes and you know–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  All of this because for example, you can have a food like I—I was very upset for a number of years because one of the most popular high histamine food list had turmeric marked as high histamine.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Wow.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  And I just kept saying over and over again, turmeric is not high histamine. It is an antihistamine. It is a mast cell stabilizer. But what it can do is block the DAO. But if you have a person who does not have a DAO problem, then turmeric would be very healing to them. You know?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Mmm.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  So what I say is, you know, we have—and this is a concept that I struggle to communicate to people some—you know, that I’ve worked with in the past is that foods can have opposing properties. You know, you can have like the turmeric that blocks something and there’s also antihistamine, you know, as you explained there’s many different types of inflame—inflammatory cells in our body and you know–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  What’s good one might not be good for the other.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  You know? So it’s—it’s all a balancing act and unless you want to live your entire life in fear–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  And so focused on your health that you forget to live–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Then my advice to people is just you know, for a couple of months, track what works for you.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  You know? And—and try and—and figure out what your tolerances are. You know, try to see how far you can get without filling your bucket and see what it is that helps you empty the bucket. Here are the general guidelines that seem to work for many people based on the research bearing in the mind that a lot of the research is conducted on animals, not humans.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  You know, and at quantities that—at dosages that are much higher than what we would normally get from foods, you know, extracts and what not. So and just—and try and make something for yourself that—that doesn’t completely kill your enjoyment of life and that allows you to have a social life because–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  You know, the unhappiness that is created by keeping your—by separating yourself from society by not eating out with friends–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Not eating with your family, you know, serving different foods at home, being you know, terrified of the outside world really because you are so focused on your health is counterproductive because that stress actually causes more histamine release.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Mmm.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  So you know, it’s—it’s kind of a never-ending cycle of—of pain and misery and so yes, we have all these different foods with the different properties and with different properties and you know, for example, the—the stem of a—of a plant might have a different property to the fruits or the left or whatever, so you know, the—the studies need to be taken with a pinch of salt and all of that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  But you know, I think it’s good to be aware of all of this stuff and then kind of step a step back and say, “How can I protect my—my sanity?”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah. Yeah.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  And have a good quality of life and still have fun.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Got it.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  You know?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  So that’s—that’s my approach.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Got it. That’s great. And then the people that have written to you and that you’ve worked with, and also yourself, what have been the major histamine offenders? Like what have really been their kryptonite? Is it more of the histamine-releasing, the—the DAO-blocking or more of the—the high histamine foods based on your experience?

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  It’s—it’s really the fermented foods, number one.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Fermented, yeah.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  So, yeah, the fermented foods, and the—especially the vinegars, the alcohols, and—and you know, the kombuchas, and you know, most people who come to the histamine diet, the low histamine diet, or the antihistamine diet arrived there via GAPS.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Because of the—yeah, I see it time and time again and in fact, that’s how I worked out what was wrong with me in the end. Somebody served me Rejuvelac. I don’t know if you’re familiar with that beauty. But it’s a fermented drink made from barley I think it is.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Okay, yup, yup.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  But she had fermented it for a few weeks and I think she had combined it with kombucha and she swore up and down that it would heal me. This was a raw foodist.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yup.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  And—and I drank it all and I—I had—I basically had a seizure.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Wow.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  And—but it didn’t happen immediately and that’s the confusing thing as you know with histamine foods–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Because inflammation takes time to build up so especially if your bucket is already empty-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  You can think that something’s not affecting you and also there’s, you know, the power of wishful thinking such as well, you know, a Snickers bar doesn’t trigger me but a tomato does.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Wow. Now, let’s really think about that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Let’s be honest with ourselves.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right, tomatoes obviously better for you than a Snickers bar, right?

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Exactly and what are the odds really that the Snickers isn’t doing anything?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Anything, exactly.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Or are you maybe just you know, kinda lying to yourself. But—but yeah, I know, absolutely it is. So it’s mostly the fermented foods and it’s a–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So are you telling me I can’t have bone broth though?

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  There’s a lot of back and forth on that one.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yup, I see that.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  I think it was the Paleo Mom, Sarah, who said that–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, Sarah Ballantyne.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Yeah, Sarah Ballantyne and she—I—I think it was her who said that you know, technically because it’s—it’s boiling—as long as you keep it at a temperature where bacteria does not start to accumulate then it shouldn’t be an issue.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Now that kind of makes sense to me. But at the same time, you know, there’s—I mean there’s just a lot in bones. There’s—there’s a lot of different ‑amines that can cause–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:   Yup.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Problems in people. Glutamine for example and I know this is—this is a struggle for a lot of people because they want to heal the gut so they want the glutamine and a lot of people take glutamine supplements and then–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  You know, they—they have some sort of major episode and you know, glutamine is an –amine.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yup.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  If you’re sensitive to histamine–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yup.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  You are likely to be sensitive to other –amines–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yup.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  And glutamine, you know, and so to these people, well there’s another interesting study conducted on animals–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Let’s hear it.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Which was found that rat mast cells–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  If you expose them to an antigen for a—for a long period of time at very small doses that increase incrementally, the mast cells eventually stop reacting. So this is what I tell people. A couple of years ago, I couldn’t eat anything.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yup.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  I didn’t go out and heal my gut. I ate a sensible diet. I didn’t do any complicated protocols with bone broth or glutamine or whatever. I was—I wasn’t even taking quercetin at the time actually. I just started eating a very healthy diet and I started a process of incremental exposure to things that bothered me.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yup.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Now I would not advise anybody at home to do this on their own. I literally couldn’t find anybody to work with me and I took a lot chances that could have ended very badly because I had had very serious reactions in the past. So in combination with stress relief and meditation because there’s no point in exposing yourself to something if you are so stressed out about it that you’re causing a reaction to begin with because then the brain begun—begins associating that food even more strongly with a negative—with a negative impact because you know, if you experience something negative, your body doesn’t want it to happen again so you start thinking about this thing and the body might start giving you the feeling of that reaction that you had that bothered you. So I—I’m not sure I explained that very well but that goes back to the amygdala as you know.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  And so the—the process of desensitization took many forms, you know. One was, you know, I called it a—what did I call it? Homebased immunotherapy–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Or something—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yup. Uh-hmm.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Low-dose immunotherapy. And so you know, it was first I would be in a room for one second with flowers, with a big vase of flowers. I’d walk into the room and walk straight out of the room–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yup.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Because I had really bad hay fever.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yup.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  You know, then I would spend a minute in the room and—my best friend walks in and I have 2 flowers shoved up each nostril.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Huh.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  She’s like, “What are you doing?” And I’m like, “Immunotherapy!”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Love it. I love it.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  But you know, and then I went out and walked through the park then I sat and meditated in the park, you know, and then it just kinda—kinda went from there.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, it-it’s–

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  And the same with foods, you know.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  If—if something bothered me, I would—I would take the food and I would cook it for just a second in a bit of olive oil because–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Olive oil boosted DAO in the—in the gut.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Oh, great.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  So that’s a great thing. And you know, I found that with many people, oil-based foods and supplements worked better for them when beginning to reintroduce and I don’t know if it’s just literally just shielding something from the gut lining where it’s inflamed and it’s—it’s kind of achy or if it’s, you know, the DAO boosting of—of the oils. But in any case, you know, just—I would just cook something for one second in the olive oil. I would take the food out and then I would cook the rest of my food in that olive oil. And the next time I’d cook it longer and longer and longer, and then I’d leave the food in there.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Interesting. Very cool. Yeah, it’s like cooking a frog, right? You put a frog in the water, boiling water, it jumps out. You put it in low, you know, temperature water and you gradually heat it up and kinda get it desensitized to that change, you can eventually cook that frog.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  That is absolutely what I tell people. I’m very amused to hear you say that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Nice. It’s a great analogy but I still don’t know anyone that cooks frogs though.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Well, I lived in France for a year, it’s–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Oh, yeah. There you go. Yup, that’s good. But yeah, that’s the analogy I like it. So just kinda getting all the people that are listening here summarized all the—the brain candy that you’ve dropped here. So we have number one is kind of getting the inflammation down in general. Like figure out where those inflammation triggers are, whether it’s stress in your life emotionally, meditation, sleep, the gluten sensitivity—forget just being celiac but the non-celiac gluten sensitivity. We also talked about the desensitization you—you also touched upon. And I also want to go into a couple of other things. I know you have some really good videos online that have been viewed hundreds and thousands of times on supplements and histamines. I know just—you already touched about quercetin is one of them and you even mentioned the DAO enzymes. What else do you recommend supplementation-wise?

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Mangosteen. Well, I’m not a doctor so I can’t recommend anything, but should people wish to discuss with their doctors–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yes. I would—I would just say–

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  The following–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Let’s frame it like this, things that have worked for you and have worked for patients–

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Or people that have written to you–

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And shared them with you.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Right, okay. So mangosteen–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Supplements which are made from the—the skin of the mangosteen, not the actual fruit itself. So drinking the juice is not the same thing.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yup.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Mangosteen supplements work as a mast cell stabilizers, preventing it—preventing them from releasing inflammation along with–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yup.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Along with histamine into the body, unnecessary inflammation. It might also be beneficial for hair loss that is associated with histamine issues and mast cell activation which is driven by prostaglandin D2. There is also—hang on, let me look over a little bit—holy basil.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yup.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  You can buy this–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Adaptogen.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Also known as tulsi. Exactly.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  It’s absolutely wonderful and if you have low cortisol, it might not be great for you. It acts as a mast stabilizer and antihistamine, highly inflammatory. It’s been one of the most healing things I’ve discovered. You can get it as a tea or as a supplement.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yup.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  There is also—it’s important to have—to make sure that you are not lacking in nutrients.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  I’m finding more and more people and you know, I’ve—I’ve been saying this for years, but people restrict themselves so much that they lack vital nutrients that will help fight the inflammation. So on the one hand, you’re restricting foods because the symptoms go away, but that’s the short-term achievement, because long-term as you deplete your nutrients, you become incapable of fighting inflammation in—in the future. There—probiotics are a really difficult one because on the one hand obviously it’s—it’s a problem with the fermentation and you know, some people if they’re lactose-based but Seeking Health make a–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yup.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Histamine-safe probiotic, which is basically they are strains that raise histamine and trigger inflammation but this—and here’s again where it gets confusing but in many cases, this might not be a bad thing in the long-term because they have other positive effects on other types, on other aspects of inflammation. But for our particular needs, they may not be appropriate because in the short-term they trigger this histamine release. So the Seeking Health ProBiota—ProBiota Bifido is what it’s called–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yup.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Has the histamine neutral and histamine lowering strains in it; otherwise for people who are unable to tolerate probiotics, a prebiotic foods are a good options. Things like chicory, dandelion, you know, those—those high fiber–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Food—plant. Things like that. And magnesium—a lot of people find beneficial simply because it calms the nerves and it’s necessary for proper manufacture of the DAO enzyme. We have DAO pills—diamine oxidase pills made from—from pork extract.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yup.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  And those you know, mixed reports on that. They really work for some people. They don’t work for other people. They initially worked for me then did not, and then I just didn’t like the fillers in them but you know, people were talking about a plant-based one, you know, different companies issued patents for them. I also trolled the patents to see what’s—what’s new and what’s coming out.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  But something interesting that I’m waiting to see more on but haven’t heard anything about it for a while was a handheld device that could measure histamine tent of foods for the consumer. And–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Oh, wow.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Because a concern to me, although I am not concerned when I eat foods anymore, and you know, although I’m careful about what I eat, I will eat what I want, you know, I will have a baguette. You know, a nice piece of crusty French bread when I’m—when I’m–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  In France, you know, I will have—well, no, ice cream. I just don’t like dairy, that’s the thing. But you know, I will eat what I want within reason because I just don’t deal with any of this on a regular basis anymore. But—oh, no, and I forgot where I was going with this—that’s terrible.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So, you were saying that you were able to do it. You are eating the bread and such because you are able to tolerate it more frequently?

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Yes, and I was making a point with that, I’m sorry, and I don’t know where I was going. Never mind. But–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  It’s okay. It’ll come back to you. It’ll come back.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  It will come back, but so you know–don’t know where I was though

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  We were still talking about the supplements. We were hitting—hit the mangosteen.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  We talked about the diamine oxidase. Is there any other supplements you wanna add to that list?

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Some people—those are the primary ones that work for most people. Vitamin C.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Oh, yes, yes. Oh, perfect.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Vitamin C is—yeah. Vitamin C is a mast cell stabilizer–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  And also an antihistamine. It’s actually really, really, really powerful and it is even prescribed by the world’s leading mast cell activation experts.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Mmm.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  In the field and the one caveat to make sure it’s not–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Corn-based and you know, for obvious reasons, but it’s also it gets worse than that. It’s not just corn but it’s fermented corn.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Which is not great.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  You–

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  And something to watch out for is–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Go ahead.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Citric acid–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Mmm.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Just so people know. They’re often derived from mold.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Ahh.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  And that’s something we obviously need to avoid.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  You know, people make the assumption that it’s derived from—from lemons. But no.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right. And also you mentioned before that you like a lot of Vitamin C that comes from palm, is that true?

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Yeah, that’s the one I’ve been using.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Simply because it came packaged with quercetin, but that one is now not—no longer being manufactured.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Was that the one by–

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Which is very upsetting.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Was that the one by Between Balance?

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  My—Twin Lab, exactly.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Twin Labs, yes.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Yeah and it—it’s just out of stock, and people write to me every day about it. But sadly, it’s out of stock.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Got it.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  My usual preference is for a Whole Food supplement. So something like camu-camu.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  But a lot of people are reactive because it’s a berry–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  And some of the berries are problematic for us. Acerola cherry Vitamin C.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yup.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Some people do well with and you know, I generally get a lot of vitamin C from my diet already but you know, if—if you’re traveling, if you eat something that, you know, didn’t agree with you, vitamin C can sometimes help.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Got it. And then you mentioned I think in your story. I’m not sure if you said it today or if I saw it in one of your videos or blog post, you mentioned you lost over a third of your hair on your head. Is that—is that true?

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Oh, that was—that was awful. That was so awful.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I know, it does sound terrible. I see lots of patients that have that though and I’m just curious, just on a personal note, do you see a connection between hypothyroid? Because hair loss is a common hypothyroid symptom. Do you see the connection with thyroid issues and histamine issues, too?

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  For a lot of people that is the case.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  And I, you know, I would encourage people to make sure they have enough iodine in their diet–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Or iodine-containing foods–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Which is a huge problem nowadays.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  But that in my case, my thyroid was although I was at one point told I might be hypothyroid.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  I mean, I was still well within range and I was prescribed the—the thyroxine which–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yup.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Made me feel awful.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Synthroid.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  For a month. Yeah, exactly. And I came off it. For most people-not for most people. For people dealing with mast cell activation or histamine issues, it is very likely that it is either a thyroid issue because we’re already dealing with an—with an immune system breakdown.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Or just general, you know, body breakdown. But also it’s important to bear in mind that one of the most common side effects of inflammation is hair loss, and generally and you can pin it down to interleukins and prostaglandins. And if there is an excess of either of those, then it’s likely that they are contributing to hair loss. So it’s something that should be looked at also. I don’t feel that people who are within the normal range for their thyroid technically what’s considered technically than normal range–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  That the first approach should be to prescribe thyroid, you know, the—the Armour or whatever.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, Synthroid, right.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  To people just on the basis of hair loss, I think that further testing for inflammatory molecules should be done and that’s as I said, the interleukins and the prostaglandins, and this is something for people out there who do decide to pursue testing of—of their mast cells for example, it’s important to have a physician who will run a full panel–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Rather than just one or two.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  And you know, as you know, there’s many different tests. There’s the 24-hour and methyl-histamine test which is urine test which is a test for metabolite of histamine which is much more accurate than the histamine plasma test, but there are others and most doctors will only do one. But the thing is you can test negative for excess histamine in your urine. But if you have a high prostaglandin level, or interleukins, heparin–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Or whatever, than can intensity the effects of histamine in the body by up to according to one medical study, up to a thousand times.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Ah, okay. So that’s big.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  So if one of–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Because prostaglandins, go ahead, yup.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Yeah, so—so exactly. So one of your—if one of your levels is off or two of your levels are slightly off, this all compounds and can indicate that you have massive inflammation because they build on each other and they cause the bucket to spill over. Sorry, go ahead.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  No, that was perfect because the prostaglandin E2, the one you mentioned and eicosanoid 2, that’s really—goes high in inflammation. So kinda everything I think you’re really driving the point home on is it all comes back to inflammation. The more inflamed you are, the more that histamine’s gonna have a, you know, a more virulent effect in your body. Is that correct?

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Absolutely.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Great, awesome. Yasmina Ykelenstam:  It’s so nice to be interviewed by a doctor.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Well, thanks. You’ve really brought some awesome knowledge bombs today. I mean, seriously you got all the research going. You got a lot of experience with different people that are writing to you. I mean, I have a lot of my patients that are very familiar with your work and I use a lot of your blogs as references clinically. So I appreciate all the great work that you’re doing, too, and getting the word out there.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Thank you for having me. It’s been an absolute pleasure being interviewed by somebody who knows the subject so well and has helped so many people. You asked all wonderful questions and I’m really excited to get the information out there.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Thank you so much. Her name is Yasmina Ykelenstam. You can find her at Subscribe to the Facebook there and also she’s got some really good cookbooks, as she mentioned there are 25-page eBook all on histamine on her site, so go over there, check it out, lots of good recipes. Last question, Yasmina, you’re stuck on a desert island. You only can bring one supplement. What do you bring?

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  That would be quercetin. That would be the Dr Theoharides NeuroProtek, which is quercetin and luteolin.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Love it. Alright, everyone go out there and get that. Well, thank you so much, Yasmina. We will post this up and feel free and share it with your peeps at your site, too, to help get this information out there. Thanks so much.

Yasmina Ykelenstam:  Wonderful, thank you.


Is inflammation making you sick? – Podcast #97

Dr. Justin Marchegiani and Evan Brand go in depth about inflammation in this podcast episode. Learn about the signs and symptoms of inflammation, the supplements you can take to alleviate conditions, and the markers you need to watch our for or test to check for inflammation.

inflammationAlso in this interview, discover how you can reduce inflammation via diet and lifestyle changes and how that affects your optimal health. Find out how to prevent inflammation and learn what the conventional treatment methods actually do for inflammation as well as the functional medicine approach that is available for you.

In this episode, topics include:

1:48   What is inflammation?

4:57   How to prevent inflammation

8:12   Inflammation markers

8:45   Conventional treatment for inflammation

19:30   Functional medicine approach












Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Evan Brand, my man! Dr. J here. What’s going on?

Evan Brand:  What’s up?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  It’s just–

Evan Brand:  I’m drinking a smoothie.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Love it! And it’s Friday. We just had Paleo f(x) last weekend. We missed you down here in Austin.

Evan Brand:  I know. I know. Well, I’m glad you had a good time. I heard you did amazing things there. So spreading the word.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Spreading the word. I hear you also got some amazing things coming, maybe in the next week?

Evan Brand:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Want to share with the listeners?

Evan Brand:  This baby’s coming soon. I don’t know when. Yeah, people who’ve been listening to my show, but the baby is doing like a week here so Hannah just had some really spicy guacamole. She thought that was gonna throw her into labor.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Oh, gosh! So what’s your strategy? Do you guys have a birthing plan? Are you trying to go midwife and—and do a more natural approach?

Evan Brand:  Yeah, we got a midwife. We have a doula. So she’s gonna be helping us to basically prevent Hannah from requesting any interventions that may be unnecessary. So we’re doing it at a hospital that’s mainly a birthing hospital that’s focused, like the entire floor is dedicated to only moms–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Wow.

Evan Brand:  And the recovery room—and the recovery floor is only dedicated to moms that just had babies. So that’s a huge relief for me because I hate hospitals. They freak me out and I would like to stay away from antibiotic-resistance bacterias as much as possible and hospitals are the best place to pick one of those things up. So–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Absolutely.

Evan Brand:  So yeah, that’s—that’s what’s up with that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Well, best of luck with you and Hannah next week.

Evan Brand:  Thank you.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  It’s gonna be very exciting!

Evan Brand:  I know.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Very cool. So any other thoughts today? I mean we talked about in the pre-show that we were gonna really touch upon inflation—um, inflation—inflammation!

Evan Brand:  We gated on that, too!

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  We gated on that, too. Inflammation is—is basically, inflation is inflammation of the financial industry so to speak.

Evan Brand:  Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  But we’re doing it on the body today. Inflammation, which kinda to give you the whole tenet of that word. Basically your body is going into accelerated breakdown. You’re breaking down faster than your building up. Now in conventional medicine and functional medicine, we have all these different cytokines and TNF-α and interleukins and C-reactive protein, all these different markers that we can test for that tell us that we’re breaking down. But typically pain and brain fog and fatigue and digestive issues and performance issues and mood issues for the most part are always a good sign that you’re inflamed.

Evan Brand:  Yeah, so I mean is it really necessary for us to test for inflammation? In my opinion it could be a good thing to check in on–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Mmm.

Evan Brand:  Don’t you think in terms of blood? But if we just put in the foundations that we’re gonna talk about today? Then we’re gonna be working on restoring that inflammatory cascade that’s happened in the first place.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, it’s nice to be able to quantify because if we see CRP above 1, or fibrinogen above 300 or homocysteine above 8 or 9 or we see, let’s say increasing calprotectin or lactoferrin or various lysozymes or you know, IgA is very, very  high and this is some of the gut inflammation markers. That there’s something going on in the gut, something going on in the body and it’s great to be able to provide an intervention whether it’s adrenal, diet, lifestyle, blood sugar and removing of infections and dysbiosis, and see those markers come down. It’s like you’d really know that we did something. It’s tangible.

Evan Brand:  What about something simple, too? Like white blood cell count that most people are gonna get on their standard CBC from their doctor if their doctor is not running the biomarkers that actually matter. Can that be helpful, too? Because we’ll see maybe there’s some type of active infection that we’re trying to fight or something like that?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, so like I touched upon that briefly with the IgA which is a kind of like immune antibody that’s like in that white blood cell realm, but like total white blood cell, yeah. If we see it like below 4, that could be a sign of a chronic issue, chronic infection immune issue or if it’s above 7-1/2 or so, that could be an active infection that our body is fighting and again, typically there’s gonna be inflammation as the by-product of that.

Evan Brand:  Right. Well said.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Cool, man. The big thing is I think off the bat we wanna do our best to reduce inflammation because that’s gonna accelerate aging, right? All these people today are spending all these money the older they get on helping to look younger, right? Well, don’t look to some kinda lotion or potion first, look to things that you can do to reduce inflammation. And that would just start with the diet first, cutting out a lot of the crappy inflammatory foods. Grains are gonna be no. 1, maybe your—your conventional diary right there with it, and then extra refine sugar or excess carbohydrates would be right there behind that as well.

Evan Brand:  Yup. Yeah, so I see so many people that try to promote these multilevel marketing schemes of like anti-aging products and—and all of that, but really just reducing this whole process like you’re talking about of glycation, those AGES—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Evan Brand:  That AGES–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Literally AGES.

Evan Brand:  They advance—yeah, I mean, if we can stop that whole glycation process but cutting these sugars out then you’re gonna be doing the first step and I would assume that most people listening, they’ve already done the—the diet piece. So you’re all here today for the really geeky stuff that we’ll get into in terms of the next steps.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yes.

Evan Brand:  What do you after the diet’s in place? How do you prevent inflammation? Do you think we should touch on adrenals and—and the whole cortisol-cortisone balance, is that worthy for this conversation or shall we go into like the herbs and stuff?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I think that’s good. We can just—we can go into some of the adrenal and testing stuff, and I spoke on this on a panel at Paleo f(x) just last weekend with Jack Wolfson. He’s a Paleo cardiologist. Also Nora—help me with her last name—Nora?

Evan Brand:  Ged—Gedgaudas.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Gedgaudas. Nora Gedgaudas. And then also Lane Sebring, and one more person on the panel as well.

Evan Brand:  Oh, man! I bet that was a blast!

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, it was really, really good panel. I mean, you know, lots of good talks about inflammation and all the other things that would go along with it, but the first thing is make sure the diet’s in place, right? The diet’s gotta be in place. We checked that off our list. Okay, good. Anti-inflammatory, nutrient-dense, low toxin diet. Got it. Boom!

Evan Brand:  Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Alright. It’s not too sexy but the diet’s the most important. Good. We got the sleep dialed in. We’re able to heal. We’re able to help restore our body. Alright, we got that piece dialed in. Well, the next is, we have to make sure we’re not throwing toxins into our body. Things that can drive inflammation, toxins whether it’s MSG or various chemicals from just being around toxins which—or you know, poor, you know, water that’s not filtered. Those are all toxins. So we kinda mitigate the toxins coming in. That’s number 1. Number 2, make sure we can break down our foods. If we can’t break down our foods, even healthy foods can have negative effects. Had a lot of patients this week that are—have chronic GI issues and they’re very sensitive to even what we can consider like healthy foods.

Evan Brand:  Yup,

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And they are reacting to it and they shouldn’t be. So we have to make sure we reduce the inflammation with them and be able to make sure they can digest their foods.

Evan Brand:  So let me–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So be—yeah?

Evan Brand:  Let—let me ask you about that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  What?

Evan Brand:  So our, you know, we’re not talking just infections for these patients. You know, we’re talking about people that just have maybe some malabsorption issues but they don’t have infections. Maybe they just have some gut dysbiosis, right? So if someone gets the all-clear, maybe they don’t have parasites, that doesn’t mean that your gut’s working perfectly. There’s still a lot of other things that we can work on, right?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, if we have like a small intestinal bacterial overgrowth or a dysbiosis, that’s gonna set us up to have an inability to break down food optimally because our hydrochloric acid and enzyme levels will be less, so we gotta make sure that that’s good because if not, that good healthy diet may not be getting into our bloodstream and—and going where it needs to go.

Evan Brand:  Right, that makes sense.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And that’s important. We gotta be able to break—even healthy foods can have a negative reaction, especially if your gut’s leaky. It’s just a matter of time if you have that routine food that you have every day that you’ll develop a food allergy response to it.

Evan Brand:  I’ve got an allergy to walnuts apparently right now. So I’m cut—I had to cut them out and I had some the other day and I had a horrible headache afterwards.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Ooh.

Evan Brand:  So I was like, “Wow!”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, and it would be from, you know, we’re knocking out some infections with you, you know, I think—what is it? The Three Amigos—Giardia, Crypto, H. pylori.

Evan Brand:  I didn’t have H. pylori–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Okay.

Evan Brand:  Thank goodness.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Giardia.

Evan Brand:  Just the Crypto-Giardia, which I’m–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Double trouble.

Evan Brand:  I’m at least 45 days in, so I’m gonna go ahead and run that GI map like we talked about soon and see if it’s—see if I’m free and clear now. I think I may wait another few weeks because I still have some cold hands going on.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  We’re also gonna do the 401H, too, right? Because–

Evan Brand:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  That’s what picked it up, so we gotta make sure we compare apples to apples.

Evan Brand:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  That’s good. That’s good. So we got the diet piece because we have like gut stuff going on, that’s gonna make it really hard for us to function optimally. Plus I talked about some of those markers we looked at to detect gut inflammation, right? We looked at lysozyme, that’s a marker, an enzyme marker—that if it’s high, it can be a sign of inflammation. We talked about lactoferrin which can go up if inflammation’s present. Also calprotectin can also go up. We can also see very, very high IgA levels or white blood cell levels, and that’s a sign that our—our immune system is fighting something and then you know, all these inflammatory cytokines, right? That I mentioned are like the by-products, you know, the collateral damage from the war going on inside of our body.

Evan Brand:  Yeah. Can we spend a couple of minutes talking about the conventional model because we also go–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Oh yeah.

Evan Brand:  Into the functional model, like we hope that everyone’s going this way, but there is still the conventional model for inflammation and so typically that’s gonna be NSAIDs and I just did my latest video on YouTube the Why Supplements Can Make You Feel Worse video. I talked about NSAIDs and the number is over 10,000 people per year that are dying of regular use of NSAIDs that they’re taking probably that were prescribed from whoever, doctor or physical therapist or whatever, for the inflammation or the pain or the other symptoms they’re having. These people are dying by regular dosage of this stuff. So to me, that’s—that’s the big takeaway from today’s talk together is you know, just encouraging people, “Look, there are other options.” I remember I talked with you one day when I—I don’t know if I had a bad headache or what was going on, maybe headache, anxiety or something back when I was in Texas, and you were like, “Dude, no, the hospital’s not gonna help you. We need to just get some magnesium going.” And so even something like that, maybe that’s not considered anti-inflammatory for that case, but for an example of a headache, someone’d typically gonna go think inflammation. They’re gonna go Advil, Tylenol, ibuprofen, Excedrin, whatever. No, you may be able to do magnesium, maybe some of the turmeric or fish oil, stuff like that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, yeah. So off the bat, when we look at some of the conventional approaches, the over-the-counter kinda go into 2 phases. You have like the NSAIDs which are like ibuprofen or—or aspirin, those kinda things.  And then you have the acetaminophens which are like the Tylenol kind of things.

Evan Brand:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So acetaminophen goes more to the liver. NSAID goes more to the gut. So NSAIDs can create more gut ulceration issues. The acetaminophen can go more to the liver. So those are kind of the two different angles for the over-the-counters and then you have the more deeper stuff, like the opioids stuff which are gonna be like the OxyContin, Codeine, Percocet, Vicodin, and there’s some that are combined, you know, Percocet’s combined, then you have something like a Midol, which are like caffeine and ibuprofen stuff. Again I just stick to the active ingredients, right? Because there’s like a hundred different—there’s like 20 NSAIDs out there. There’s like 20–

Evan Brand:  Right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Acetaminophens. All these different names. So you have your NSAIDs. You have your acetaminophens, and then you have your various opioids to keep it–

Evan Brand:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Keep it simple.

Evan Brand:  And then we see—just today they finally admitted that Prince died of opioids.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Evan Brand:  So–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  What was the—

Evan Brand:  There you go.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I think it was a Fentanyl overdose, wasn’t it?

Evan Brand:  Yeah, Fentanyl.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, I mean that’s like—that’s like an anesthetic, I know. So it’s crazy, so all these things, all thy do is block various enzymes to experience pain. So like NSAIDs, they’re gonna—like they’re non-steroidal so they’re gonna help block these—these various cyclooxygenase enzymes–

Evan Brand:  So–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  COX enzymes for short.

Evan Brand:  So it’s not actually resolving the issue, it’s just–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  No.

Evan Brand:  Basically changing the way that the body sends the signal to the brain. Is that right?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, so when you have inflammation, your body’s gonna short out a whole bunch of prostaglandins—prostaglandin E2 to be specific and that’s gonna cause that pain sensation and then essentially all you’re doing with an NSAID is your trying to block or inhibit those prostaglandins from being formed. The problem is the upstream action of those prostaglandins being made, that mechanism that’s stimulating those prostaglandins is still happening. You’re just decreasing the prostaglandins actually being synthesized. So in the endi, the mechanism is still there, right?

Evan Brand:  Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And then the other part is the corticosteroids. Those are like prednisone or like hydrocortisone, right? These are the actual steroids. So you have the non-steroidals, the NSAIDs, right? Then you have the acetaminophen which is like your—your Tylenol, right? And then you have some of the corticosteroids which are like prednisone or cortisone or Cortef, right? These are things that we do to help add extra ability for our hormones to be able to dissolve the inflammation. Now again this is why having healthy adrenal glands is so important because healthy adrenal glands help put out the fire of inflammation, right? Imagine your adrenals is like the fire extinguisher and imagine the fire is like the inflammation in the br—in the body. Now ideally, we don’t wanna be pyromaniacs setting fires in our house every day. But let’s say a little fire happens because of some stress in our lives. We wanna make sure the firefighters can show up and their hoses are full of water so they can douse it out. So imagine the firefighter coming up with empty hoses, that’s like having very weak adrenals. We have a very low amount of stress can essentially burn down our house, so we wanna make sure that we’re not letting fires in our house. Number one, that’s reducing inflammation activities and then number two, we wanna make sure out fire hoses, our adrenals are strong so if fires happen, we can put them out pretty fast.

Evan Brand:  Yeah, and you and I do look at some adrenal testing–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Evan Brand:  That will show the cortisol-cortisone balance. So if you’re listening and you want the general takeaway for that, basically if you’re running from a bear or so your nervous system thinks, you’re gonna be more shifted into that cortisol state and you’re not gonna be shifted towards cortisone. So it’s like you don’t even have the ability to respond to the inflammation, right? It’s kinda like maybe the firemen just took the day off because there’s–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Evan Brand:  There’s nothing there.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, cortisone’s a little bit more downregulated. It’s a metabolite of cortisol. Cortisol’s more active and then cortisone’s kind of downstream a bit. So we wanna make sure we have the ability to regulate inflammation. So we have it internally by our adrenal glands. We have it diet and lifestyle-wise by not putting crappy foods in and by sleeping and doing the right kinds of exercise and taking time off to meditate or do healthy forms of exercise right? And then we have the ability to look in deeper to chronic infections that could be driving issues. I tell my patients, you could be inflamed. If you’re on a beach relaxing and chilling out and meditating, eating perfect food, but if you have an internal infection, like—like you did with your—your double trouble, your Blasto and Crypto, you may still have symptoms. So we wanna make sure–

Evan Brand:  Crypto-Giardia.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Crypto-Giardia, yeah.

Evan Brand:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So we wanna make sure that we have internal inspections, the hidden inflammation under control.

Evan Brand:  Yeah, and—and that’s a great point you make sure, so I’m gonna restate it, is if everything seems to be making sense in terms of your—your diet, your lifestyle, like all of that makes sense, you have all that done. You’ve read all the books.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Evan Brand:  You’ve tried all the diets—98% of people that work with us, they’re struggling. And people we’ve blown away, people that are coming to us in terms of like they’re status where you would think this person has it all figured out because of who they are, but they’re still suffering.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Evan Brand:  And a lot times we look deeper and it’s like, “Bingo!” There it is! It’s—isn’t it kinda fun? I mean, it’s not that we wish stuff upon people, but when you finally have an answer for someone’s health problems they’ve been suffering for 20-25 years and then you finally find something in the gut, it’s like, “Oh, thank God! We found something!”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Exactly. Well, you just gotta know physiology and you gotta know the—the weak links in—in the average person’s physiological chain and the gut and the adrenals and diet and inflammation is definitely one of those common links that breaks in everyone’s chain that, you know, will manifest in different diseases, right? But it’s the same physiology that—that’s breaking though.

Evan Brand:  Right, so basically you’re saying it doesn’t really matter if your symptom sounds like it’s over here in the left field with this net that we’re casting. That’s basically gonna be a broad enough but also specific enough net to just identify the body system that is dysfunctioning.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Evan Brand:  And it doesn’t matter if—if someone else doesn’t have the exact manifestation as you, it’s the same mechanism you’re saying.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, same mechanism. I mean, look at it. Any type of autoimmune condition or massive pain issue, right? What does conventional medicine do? We’re gonna throw a prednisone at it, right? For the most part or corticosteroid.

Evan Brand:  What do they wanna do with that? What—what is their actual long-term goal with that? I mean, it just seems very unsustainable.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Well, my analogy is this. There’s a pyromaniac in the house that’s lighting fires every single day but we’re not gonna go in and get the pyromaniac out of the house, we’re just gonna continue to douse the house on with water as—as new fires creep up every day.

Evan Brand:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So Chris Kresser gave an analogy at Paleo f(x), he’s like yeah, you walk around and you got a rock in your shoe and then you start feeling a lot of pain and you start getting a blister and you’re like, “Shoot, I’m just gonna reach for an NSAID or an ibuprofen or a corticosteroid to numb that pain.” But we know the root cause is just take the shoe off and kick the rock out.

Evan Brand:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right? So I think it’s important because we have to have like a really good sound philosophy of why we’re doing what we’re doing. Because now the next step is, alright we have natural anti-inflammatory things that we can do as well as on the functional medicine/natural medicine side which are great but we can use these things just like drugs in the sense that we can just use them to cover up symptoms. So again, we always wanna get to the root cause. Dr. George J. Goodheart—get to the highest, you know, get—the highest good is to always get to the root cause. Alright, so always getting to the root cause is gonna be very, very important. Now the reason why even if you forgot getting to the root cause, let’s say you had a little brain fart and you just kinda miss that part, well, at least we’re taking substances that don’t kill 20,000 people a year taken properly.

Evan Brand:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Some of these pain meds can kill a lot of people, and if you go back 10 years ago to Vioxx, that killed 80,000 people.

Evan Brand:  Gosh.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  These are—these could be some dangerous medications, so yeah, there are a lot of people out there that say, you know, don’t practice natural medicine like an allopath. I get that. I respect it. I’m 100% in agreement, but I rather see someone do that than take a lot of these pain meds chronically and—and die from it.

Evan Brand:  Agreed, yeah. And I actually have a few females that I was talking with this week specifically that they’ve been on OxyContin for 10 years.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Oh, my God! That’s insane.

Evan Brand:  So, you know, in their 60s just trying to come off of this stuff, it’s im—it’s almost impossible. It’s–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Evan Brand:  Very troubling.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And some people they have such a wind up of inflammation that it’s really hard to come off so they have to kind of start making a lot of the diet and lifestyle changes, bring some of the natural stuff in at very high doses and then slowly taper off over time. And then you know, if you’re gonna be on it, too, we can at least do some damage control and add in some milk thistle or Silymarin or liver support to help support the liver if we’re doing high doses of acetaminophen or these things over long periods of time.

Evan Brand:  Yeah, that was something I was gonna talk with you about, too, which maybe this is a tangent, maybe not, is when I looked at her organic acids test specifically with the—with all the pain meds in the system, all of the detox measures there on the organics that they were all flagged really high–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Big time.

Evan Brand:  And what else was on there? There was a couple other liver markers, too, that were just off the charts.  So anyway long story short, I don’t—I couldn’t find it specifically but it was crazy to see because you read about how these medications affect the liver, but when you actually see it on a piece of paper and you’re seeing like whoa! This is associated with liver issue, it’s like, “Wow! This is amazing to see.”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Evan Brand:  This is affecting you—it’s not just something you read on the Internet. Look, there it is in the flesh.  It’s–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  There it is, 100%. I—

Evan Brand:  That’s was crazy.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I think that’s great. So like with our a functional medicine, non-dogmatic philosophy, right? Alright, I’m gonna go—let’s pretend like there’s been a time in the last year where I maybe drank some alcohol that wasn’t the best, and it maybe gave me a headache the next day. Alright, so what do I do? I wake up. I have a little bit of a headache. Well, I take some magnesium. I rehydrate with a whole bunch of minerals. I eat a good breakfast. I stabilize my blood sugar. My head’s still pounding, well, I may take an ibuprofen, right? That may happen like once a year max. So that’s kinda like triage, right? You’re in the moment. You do a couple of natural things. Your head’s pounding. It’s like, “What the hell?” If I take this ibuprofen, it’ll be gone in a few minutes. Fine, that makes sense. What’s the underlying cause? Well, the underlying cause is not something perpetual in motion. It’s not a chronic issue. It’s an acute thing that happened. You did your best, the triage, a couple of things, it didn’t work. You want relief now. Fine. Not that big of a deal. Alright?

Evan Brand:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Now, in the end, what did I learn from that? Well, if I drink some questionable alcohol, I’ll bring some charcoal. I’ll bring some extra vitamin C or N-acetyl cysteine or some—some milk thistle, some liver support. Boom! Then we can get—get ahead of that. Sometimes we don’t get ahead of it, and then we’re triaging it, and then that’s where maybe conventional medicine can be great. Also we can pull in there, sometimes Iike I find NSAIDs do work great for headaches, but if we can’t we’ll throw in some boswellia, or we’ll throw in some turmeric or curcumin. We’ll throw in some high dose enzymes on an empty stomach. We’ll throw in the enzymes, probio—let’s see–

Evan Brand:  I like Arnica.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Oh, Arnica! Some homeopathic can be phenomenal. Homeopathic can be great. White willow bark which is where acetaminophen is extracted from, Devil’s claw, DLPA which is a type of phenylalanine amino acid that has the D and L form. So you have those off the bat. You have the enzymes. You have some turmeric. You have boswellia. You have the—you can even do ginger. You have devil’s claw. You have while willow bark. All those things are great. And I actually just came out with a new curcumin—it’s called Curcumin Supreme. That’s a liposomal curcumin with MCT and sunflower lecithin. Again there’s one in the market right now called Meriva, which is good. It’s a very good one but it’s got phosphatidylcholine from soy, so it’s a liposome, but this one doesn’t have the soy so it’s more sensitive for my autoimmune patients. So I was really happy to be able to formulate that.

Evan Brand:  Good job. Yeah, I thought of something else. Oh, I like how you’re getting fancy with the DLPA there coming in with the amino acid route. That’s something I’ve used really successfully, too, for people with chronic pain and they just—they wanna give up and the aminos can be awesome. So I know you’ve got a video. I’ve got a video on aminos. I don’t know if I talked about DLPA. Did you in your video?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Maybe. I mean DLPA is a precursor to endorphin, so endorphin takes about 19 amino acids to make and it’s your natural kind of opioids so to speak, helps block pain. It’s a natural antidepressant. And if you have chronic gut issues and low protein absorption then you have a lot of inflammation getting the DLPA at higher levels can really help with the beta endorphin and helping to recharge that.

Evan Brand:  So let me ask this. Can we—can we assume and say that if there are some adrenal issues going on, that we may not—it’s kinda like the power plant analogy where everything may be diverted over to cortisol so that we’re gonna have less ability to make optimal amounts of adrenaline-noradrenaline to deal with the pain as well? So it’s like we have an issue with inflammation but do we have an issue with pain as well because we can’t make as many endorphins in adrenal fatigue situations?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, it’s very possible. I mean, we’ll see that on organic acids test. We’ll see very low vanilmandelate levels.

Evan Brand:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Or we’ll even see very low homovanillate levels which are dopamine and the noradrenaline-adrenaline markers. We’ll see those very depleted.

Evan Brand:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Because the adrenals are whipping, you know, they’re getting whipped into—into effect to produce more of these anti-inflammatory compounds. But also that, we also tend to see more depleted sex hormones. So our dehydroepiandrosterone pathways, DHEA for short, or andro or testosterone, those pathways start getting robbed and we’re making more stress hormones because the body is hardwired to deal with the inflammation now versus the stress and healing of tomorrow, right? So the analogy is you got some firefighters and you got some carpenters sitting out in front of the house. The house is on fire. Who goes in first?

Evan Brand:  Say that again.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  You got a house that’s sitting on fire, right?

Evan Brand:  Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Out in front of the house, there is a carpenter and then the other guy is a firefighter. Who goes in first?

Evan Brand:  Hopefully the firefighter.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Firefighter, right? That’s our body. It’s just hardwired just like that, right? We wanna deal with the inflammation and stress first, and then repair and heal afterwards. So the firefighter is equivalent to cortisol and our stress hormones. The carpenter is equivalent to DHEA and our sex hormones. So the problem is most people they live with a house on fire.

Evan Brand:  Right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So the carpenter just sits on the sidewalk, you know, twiddling his thumbs while the fire—firemen’s in there, just continuing to try to douse the house with a hose that’s running on dry.

Evan Brand:  Yup, yup. So basically, we’ve—I felt like we’ve done a good job of zooming in and zooming out. It’s not just one thing. Its—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Evan Brand:  It—it’s all of this. It’s the hormones. It’s the DHEA. It’s the cortisol. It’s the cortisone.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Evan Brand:  It’s the leaky gut situation. It’s use of the NSAIDs. I mean, it’s—I think people are—when they hear inflammation, they want one quick fix, but–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Evan Brand:  There’s not.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Evan Brand:  We have to get all these systems intact.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, so let’s kind of draw out our action tree. Alright, number one. Whatever your health issue is, let’s make sure we have the root cause of it addressed, right? If it’s a chronic health issue, right? We wanna do the functional medicine work to dig deeper—adrenals, guts, infections, malabsorption, nutrients—that’s the deeper work because we don’t know the root cause is. We know what the root cause is now, right? It’s we had a little bit too much alcohol last night, right? Well, number one, we can go grab the natural anti-inflammatories first, do all the diet and lifestyle stuff. Does it work acutely enough to triage it? Yes? Okay, we’re good. If it doesn’t, we may grab an NSAID. We may grab an NSAID, we may grab a—acetaminophen or Tylenol. Alright, that’s kinda option number two. And then number three, we always wanna have the prevention mindset. If we know that we’re gonna be in a place that we may encounter some certain things, take some extra enzymes, maybe drink some ginger tea, take some charcoal with you, take some NAC, take some extra vitamin C to support your body ahead of time so can kinda prevent it, right? An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, so to speak.

Evan Brand:  Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So number one, do we have the underlying cause addressed? Number two, is it chronic? And if it’s chronic, you gotta go the functional medicine route. Number three, if it’s chronic let’s try to whittle down some of the natural—let’s try to whittle down the pharmaceuticals with some natural anti-inflammatories. Just do it supervised, so we’re not doing anything rash. And then number three, let’s get to the root cause of why you’re inflamed?

Evan Brand:  Yup, great summary there. Yeah, and like I said, we’re assuming everyone has the—the diet piece in there, so if you’re still—let’s say like for my grandpa, I swear this guy I cannot get him off Jif peanut butter with the hydrogenated oils which is inflammation. So you know, we go out to the restaurants, we get exposed those soy bean and other inflammatory oils. So keep that on your radar, too. It’s not just the things you see. If you go get your good steak—your good grass-fed steak somewhere, well, figuring out what they cook that in, too. It’s not that you have to be neurotic about it, but just figuring out—am I getting exposed to inflammatory oils there? It may not be something that’s gonna make or break you, but if you’re trying to be that top 1% of health, like we are and how we want our patients to be, you may have to have that level of microscope put on, you know, those little factors. But I have been trying to get him to like even an organic peanut butter.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Better.

Evan Brand:  Not—not even off, I mean, I’m trying to even just get him off peanut butter completely.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Evan Brand:  And over to almonds or something, but even just getting him off the hydrogenated oils, it is insanely hard. He reads all the books. He reads all the articles I send him. He listens to the podcast. He won’t do it. Grandpa, stop eating Jif peanut butter.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I know, I hear you, man. You just gotta grab the low hanging fruit. You only can—you can lead the horse to water but you can’t make it drink, right?

Evan Brand:  That’s true.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Cool. Well, I just think the big take home is through is if you—you got some pain and inflammation and you’ve done all the things we’ve talked about. Don’t suffer for another day or two if it’s—if it’s something that can go away with one ibuprofen, I don’t think it’s worth suffering. I mean, do your best to—to maximize all of our options, but then if you have to use a—a pharmaceutical acutely like that, well, what the heck? I mean, if it gets you the quality of life back right away and you’re not suffering, I think that’s okay.

Evan Brand:  Yeah, I think I’m a little bit more likely to suffer like 48-72 hours and then I’ll resort to it. Like I had some weird like tension headache. We had a bunch of weird storms rolling and my head was just pounding. I just tried to up the vitamin C and magnesium, wait for the storm to pass and then my head got better. So it’s crazy all the environmental influence is they happen on these—on these pain signals, too.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Evan Brand:  You notice that? Like when the weather’s different, your joints are like, “Ugh!”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Oh, yeah, I agree. Yup, they—the nitrogen in the joints I think it—I think when the pressure goes down, the joint pressure goes up. So yeah, that can happen. You can have a lot of that joint pain because of it.

Evan Brand:  Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I know.

Evan Brand:  I know you see that probably a lot when you were doing a lot more hands-on work. You know, you’re hands-on functional applied kinesiology, all of that stuff, that you would see people with pain issues more when the weather was bad.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Oh, and I can’t tell you how many people that have chronic back pain and neck pain and my God, they all had terrible diets, and getting the diet dialed in was huge because they just—you know, their fire hoses were dry. They were on empty and they couldn’t put out the fire.

Evan Brand:  Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So I think it’s important and also building blocks, like you’re getting extra amino acids in there, like collage or a really good clean protein powder I think could be helpful because if people’s guts are screwed up, they can absorb nutrients, so getting some good clean collagen and aminos in there can be very helpful just to provide some easy to absorb building blocks.

Evan Brand:  Right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Evan Brand:  It’s a great point.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And if you wanna touch upon the REM Rehab stuff, I know your book, we’ll give it a little plug—this is the second time today I—I’ve talked about your book.

Evan Brand:  Oh, wow. Thank you.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I interviewed—I interviewed Kevin Geary this morning here and he plugged it because he was your co-author, which is great.

Evan Brand:  Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And REM Rehab, all about sleep, getting into the deeper phases of sleep where you heal and reduce inflammation. Did you wanna touch upon that?

Evan Brand:  Yeah, I suffered from sleep issues a lot, insomnia and other sleep issues when I was in college working at UPS midnight shift to like 5am, just–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow.

Evan Brand:  Just unbelievable destruction to my hormones. Everything started there. If I were to pick a turning point in my life, that was it. And I wouldn’t be doing this today if I didn’t do that though, and so I wrote that book as a recovery guide—if I wrote that book to myself essentially, and then I talked about some of the diet tweaks that I’ve used and researched, you know, getting in your sulfur amino acids and things like that from your cruciferous vegetables and trying to support your natural GABA production. You know, I kinda hit it on like the neurotransmitter route and then gave some good like basic protocols and things for sleep if it’s—if it’s an issue. Now if I were to re-write that, I would talk more about the gut because I’m finding that regardless of what you’re doing for aminos, it can be a good quick fix and I’m not gonna even plug the name of the supplement but a lot of people are taking this supplement that I don’t really approve of because it’s a proprietary blend and you have–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Evan Brand:  No idea how much melatonin and other stuff’s in there.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Oh, I know what it is.

Evan Brand:  Yeah, and so I don’t—I don’t recommend that and that—that may be a quick fix for people, but you have to look for gut infections because I was waking up in the middle of the night and I had infections. And when the infections—I—I’m assuming I’m at least 90% better because I’m sleeping so much deeper now. And I wouldn’t have done that with just that—that little magic—magic powder.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, I know I hear you. By the way, I found out—I talked to that person over the weekend who’s—who’s–

Evan Brand:  Oh, yeah?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Unmentionable product will—will stay unknown. It’s 300mcg of melatonin in that product. So that’s actually pretty good. It’s a good dose–

Evan Brand:  Okay.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  About 1/3 of a milligram.

Evan Brand:  Okay, good.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, just so you know. Maybe–

Evan Brand:  Alright, I—I’ll change my mind then.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, I’m gonna be having this person on the show sometime soon so it’ll all be more clear then. But one last thing, probiotics can actually help reduce inflammation. I saw a study where it helped reduce cortisol. So I really added in, you know, the 5R program we talked about, right? Removing bad foods, replacing–

Evan Brand:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Enzymes, acid; repairing the adrenals and gut; removing infections; reinoculation. That third R, that repair R, we’re starting to add in people that have a lot of gut symptoms. We’ll add in the extra specific kinds of probiotics to actually reduce inflammation and it has worked very well.

Evan Brand:  Absolutely. It’s a great—a great finisher supplement.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  People never think about probiotics as being anti-inflammatory.

Evan Brand:  That I mean, and that’s when you and I were looking at supplement options for me. That was something, you’re like, “Dude, you have to have the probiotic at night.” Not even necessarily for the reinoculation phase, just the inflammation that’s going on with these parasites. That’s doing some damage and we need to try to reverse it. So that’ s been a really good addition for me and I did wake up, maybe a month ago when I had first started and I had some weird gut stuff going on and what I do, I woke up and I was like, “Oh, I need to take a probiotic,” and I took it and you can literally feel the inflammation in the gut cooling down almost instantly.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Isn’t that great?

Evan Brand:  Maybe I—maybe I placeboed myself a little bit but it—it still worked. And I know it did.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, oh the thing is, right? You can’t placebo yourself to 20,000 deaths a year from ibuprofen, right?

Evan Brand:  I know.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So there’s something to what’s happening on the conventional side and there’s something, too, what’s happening on the natural side and then the—the great thing about it is less deleterious side effects that’s for sure.

Evan Brand:  Yeah, amen.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Well, Evan, I’m gonna give you the final word. Anything else?

Evan Brand:  No, that’s it. I think that this was a good overview. If people liked the show, please review it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Review it.

Evan Brand:  It’s very helpful. I know we have listeners around the world. It means a lot. I know every time you get the little notification on your phone for apps, please review this app, you hit, “No, Thanks!” Well, don’t hit “No, Thanks!” for us. Review the show, it’s easy, it takes 2 minutes. Go to iTunes on your phone, on your computer, and write that review. It means a lot and it helps us makes sure that we’re not talking to a wall and that you’re getting great feedback and you’re learning the application steps and that we’re helping you to get to the root of any symptoms and your health goals, and just helping you do the things that you—you wanna do in life with the vibrance that everyone needs.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  No fluff. No BS. And in my opinion, there’s no podcast like it. So give us some feedback so we can continue to do better for everyone.

Evan Brand:  Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Evan, have a great weekend, man! It’s beautiful here in Austin. Enjoy, Louisville!

Evan Brand:  You, too. Take care.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And your new baby!

Evan Brand:  Yeah, thank you.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Take care.

Evan Brand:  Bye.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Bye.

The entire contents of this website are based upon the opinions of Dr. Justin Marchegiani unless otherwise noted. Individual articles are based upon the opinions of the respective author, who retains copyright as marked. The information on this website is not intended to replace a one-on-one relationship with a qualified health care professional and is not intended as medical advice. It is intended as a sharing of knowledge and information from the research and experience of Dr. Justin and his community. Dr. Justin encourages you to make your own health care decisions based upon your research and in partnership with a qualified healthcare professional. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. Dr. Marchegiani’s products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. If you are pregnant, nursing, taking medication, or have a medical condition, consult your physician before using any products.