Addressing EMF, 5G and Improving Your Athleticism – Justin Frandson | Podcast #379
Exposure to artificial radiofrequency electromagnetic fields (EMFs) has increased significantly in recent decades. Therefore, there is a growing scientific and social interest in its influence on health, even upon exposure significantly below the applicable standards.
In this video, Dr J and Justin Frandson discuss the possible harmful effects of EMF and 5G on our well-being and what the strategies are to keep our athleticism and overall health performance. To find out more, make sure to like, subscribe, and watch out for more evidence-based health tips!
Dr. Justin Marchegiani
In this episode, we cover:
0:00 – Introduction
0:28 – Athleticism
4:57 – Concussions
16:03 – EMF
25:30 – Correlation vs causation
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey guys! It’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani here, really excited. I have Justin Fradson on today’s show. We’re gonna be talking about 5G, EMF, natural ways to help eliminate that, reduce it, neutralize it and also talk about improving athleticism as well. Justin, welcome to today’s show. How you doing, man?
Justin Frandson: Really great. Thanks Dr. J for having me on.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, awesome. And you got a new book that’s out called athleticism, whole body, whole brain performance. Can you just kind of what inspired you to write this book and what are some of the key take home points you want to highlight out of the gates.
Justin Frandson: Oh yeah, I’m pretty stoked on this book, I must say, this is my life journey just. Oh, and between those two hard back cover so, I mean, I started working with the athletes about 25 years ago. Started athleticism.com. I had a Scripps clinic in La Jolla and work with the amateur and professional athletes develop sensory, motor, nerve work for sports performance. We do whole body, brain training, ambidexterity, and I treat concussions and do a bunch of stuff.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: OK, that’s very cool. So let’s talk about the, the, the ambidexterity training. What does that look like? What are some of the exercises? What are some of the therapies you run your athletes through to improve that?
Justin Frandson: Well, we’re one of the only sports performance programs that actually has an ambidexterity program. And that’s great. The crust of it I think is, is to really get these bodies being a whole body and whole brain.Performer. So we do everything from juggling to washers to cup stacking. Uh, a lot of martial arts stuff as well. Stick training, just coordination with the hands and integrating with foot movements.Those are some of the ambidexterity stuff, just with the hands that people would think of. We also do the same things with the rhythms, with the feed and then everything’s nonlinear semi circles figure eights connecting to the infinite flow of the universe.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So is someone coming to you and saying, hey, I wanna be a better athlete? These are some of the skill sets that I need in my sport and then you kind of come in and recommend various kind of modalities within your clinic. Is that how it works?
Justin Frandson: Yeah definitely and then or I get bridge training post PT guys Sir kind of fed up with PT and or their sessions have expired and they don’t know what to do. They’re kind of left high and dry. So we bridge that gap all the way to high level performance and then do a lot of treatments as well for injury recovery like a stretching therapy and brain and trainment, light, sound, frequency, vibration, those are all my go to.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s cool. And so when you have people that come in from PT, what do you see some of the big shortcomings of PT that maybe prevent some of the people that see you? Like why they’re not healing all the way? There are certain modalities or shortcomings philosophically or modality wise that are missing in that? That you kind of bring delight, if you will.
Justin Frandson: Definitely. I really feel PT’s are some of the most gifted facilitators out there, but unfortunately a lot of them are held within the restrictions of billing and so they’re just going to ice, they’re just going to do 5 minutes of yeah, fascial work. They’re not able to do, use their gifts to the extent that they use them. So I think that one of the downfalls of the PT system is a really locked into the insurance space method and protocols most of our PT or excuse me post OP physical therapist so your session has expired. You certain point then you’re pretty much you’re done. I mean you then there are where do you go? And I have that same experience. I tore my ACL playing basketball while dunking on a guy and when I landed, he then bends his knee in the side of my knee and tore the ACL. And went through PT out of scripts clinic in La Hoya where I was officed out of. So the Orthos brought us in there and to work with the PT in them so they could have the system. So I’m like OK, I’m going to use this PT even though I got it three from a handful of other PT’s, well, he starts billing me. It was like $750 to ice my knee for the first visit. And then and three weeks, four weeks, four weeks in I had expired all my, my and I had like I had. I had like the best insurance he could have and I was done in like a month and so. And then he had built the just crap out of me. And so I’m going this is just a flawed system. And it ended up being my niche where I could take over that bridge, bridge that gap to where they really missed out on.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: OK, got it. And so when you see people that have come in with concussions, what’s your first step to addressing that outside of the, you know, the conventional model, right? The conventional model a lot of times is like sunglasses go sit in the dark corner maybe? Don’t, don’t fall asleep for a little bit, right? Is there anything else you’re doing that’s kind of specifically improving healing? Anything nutritionally, anything neurological exercise wise, to kind of help facilitate that healing?
Justin Frandson: Well, the first thing I do is they go to a chiropractor. So the first thing I do? So go to Chiro, get everything adjusted. Make sure everything is structurally in place. I mean, that’s number one. When they come to see me, what I do is what I do. They work on sensory nerves so I level their horizon and get them connected to their center line, which is basically obviously their longitude latitude line. One thing I know where they are in space, everything will start to heal.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So how does that work? Is that upper cervical type of stuff? How do you do that?
Justin Frandson: No, through light therapy and muscle lights. OK, you are soggy.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: OK. And so what’s the input? You’re adding light or anything else to help that?
Justin Frandson: Light and I use essential oils and I use muscle testing and energy work to do it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s cool. Excellent. And so someone comes in, they have these concussion issues, right? You’re using these different modalities and that’s you’re seeing that helps celebrate healing. Are you doing anything with a red light? Are you doing anything with nutrition at all?
Justin Frandson: Well yeah, I mean like red light is what we use, so I actually use GRT light most of the time Umm. And it’s red LED and infrared and it has different policies and mechanisms and then I’m actually using essential oils as well and nutrition is huge because your stomachs, your second brain. So, right. I had a guy who just had a client actually two days ago. Crazy. You bring this up, but he put a breath mint. He’s 14. Little kid got a concussion and I had seen him three times prior and I’m working on his nerves, on his REM patterns and he was, he held in the beginning of going right to left on his eye movements without moving his head, just moving his eyes.He put them in his mouth and I go to retest his eyes, and he goes weak. And guess what? Events are full of artificial… about his nervous system.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That makes sense. Nutrition plays a major role, whether it’s additional toxicity coming in through junkie sugars or artificial sweeteners or potential food allergens or junkie fats, right. All those things matter. And what kind of diet changes do you make, I mean, most people that I see that come to me and they’ve seen PT in the past, most very rarely even look at nutrition or anything in that realm or get extra nutrients to help build back connective tissue or joints or bones. It’s kind of ignored 100%. You see it also, already conventional medicine too. What kind of changes do you make out of the gates in those areas?
Justin Frandson: Well, the big thing is looking at all the different stressors of the body and you gotta look at what John rates like down regulates the nervous system. And so comically food, drink, air, EMF. So food is just basically eating real stuff like eating a real balanced intake. That’s a real food that’s not modified, that’s not real in pesticide, herbicide and also growing in the garage. That doesn’t come out of a bag and from an industrialized manufacturing plant. So some of the basic stuff on that. I love structured and structuring the water. Just get hydration down, have them start to own their power a little bit.More and then sleep is the other biggest thing which our grounding bags help with. So kind of normalizing a full spectrum of these athletes and you know that that’s where we’re really diving into.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Any specific diet recommendations, are you making sure proteins are adequate? Or is there a certain amount of protein you want people to eat in relation to their weight? Half a gram per pound? One gram per pound of body weight? What does that look like for protein?
Justin Frandson: Yeah. I haven’t really gotten too granular with them on that. I just say balance it out. What I do look at is we have an MCT oil called Lean Oil. So it’s from the palm kernel, so it’s medium chain triglycerides.That’s right. So they’re the very fattest fuel. Uh. But you gotta kick in the oldest people valve, get some protein in the body. Yeah, first thing in the morning. I mean, these are some things that I like to do. Uh, and? That’s kind of where I go out and I’m not big on digitally quantifying like these specific ratios and it just feeds your body what you feel is right for you and does your food really well and dying, but enough fuel in your system too, so you’re not burning adrenaline. You’re burning fuel.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, that makes sense.Absolutely.Yeah, I mean I thought protein is really important because if you’re athletic and you’re using your muscles, you’re creating this breakdown, your body trying to heal that back up. So proteins and it’d be really important. Also protein is going to be very blood sugar stabilizing, very satiating into preventing you from overeating, obviously good fats or super important because every cell in our body has a good healthy cell membrane and we need good healthy fats whether it’s coconut oil or good healthy grass fed pasture fed animal products. We want to really be avoiding a lot of the junkie more inflammatory process fats Omega 6 trans fat. So I think that’s, you know, important to have those components dialed in for sure. That makes a lot of sense. What’s next? So you see patients, they come in to you, your. What’s the next step the average person’s missing to make themselves more athletic? Like, if you could do one thing with the average person, what would it be outside of some of the things we’re already talking about now?
Justin Frandson: Well, the first thing I recommend to them is to start balancing more, so when you’re probably the number one thing I dressed in the book. If you don’t balance, you can’t do anything. So that’s the biggest thing. I think right behind that would be flexibility to have some range of motion and once they get established a functional range of motion. Then you go into the stability components, and then we start to develop a foundation that we build on for speed, power, coordination, and it is just a human disguise of limits. And it’s unilateral versus jumping off of both feet and you just take the athletes and our new dimension.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, that’s why I always like unilateral work, because I find that you can really show weaknesses to people. A single like deadlift for unilateral kind of opposite arm pull. I feel like when you do things that are unilateral it really exposes a lot of weaknesses. and imbalances in the body so that that’s really good. Plus you don’t need a lot of weight, you don’t need a lot of load. When you’re rolling, you’re only using half of that foundational stable unit. So that’s cool. Yeah. What’s one thing?
Justin Frandson: Yeah. But the other thing real quick is I’ve been doing a lot of B3 bands. And which is blood flow restriction and, I found that’s really helpful for me because of limited time for workout. I’ll throw on the ban, it boosts my nitric oxide buildup and endothelial vascular growth factor. So I think more growth factors.That, you know what, I’m in my 50s, so, uh, I could use all that I could get right now naturally, and that’s been a fantastic way. And my strengths improve, my speeds improve. So for a quick workout, those B3 bands have been awesome for me.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s cool. And the goal of those bands is like a rubber band, almost like what they do if they were to take your blood, they wrap it around there and that’s restricting blood flow. And then as a result, it’s what, increasing growth hormone, increasing NO2, essentially.
Justin Frandson: Yeah. The nitric oxide is oxide for it and what happens is, you develop these buffers and you just develop more growth factors from it. But B3 bands have Airways in that restriction, so you’re not starving the muscle of oxygen, you’re just constricting it. So my whole thing is like resistance. Resistance and the subtle resistance are vascular systems that just don’t have it until you put a ban on it. The two activities that restrict or provide resistance for your respiratory system are swimming because you’re exhaling into the water or playing a horn instrument as a musician. Other than that, we don’t develop that respiratory system with resistance. So there’s ways to look at fast resistance, respiratory system resistance versus just traditional strength training resistance and so that’s why we’re looking at all these components.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool. Excellent. And so you are also very passionate about EMF and you sent me a couple of goodies which I appreciate. You sent me some EMF kind of neutralizing crystals, a Faraday bag, a couple things and they have a website, EMF rocks. Let’s talk a little bit more about EMF and just kind of some of the negative impacts out of the gate that you see, for instance, with your athletes that you work with?
Justin Frandson: Ohhh, yeah doctor J. I mean, I saw an endurance athlete come through and this one.Higher arm when weak from wearing a smartwatch on his wrist. And so I’m like, oh wow, yeah, get that radiation off your wrist. His whole arm just got better. It got stronger again without me kind of radiation. Was it hooked up to Wi-Fi or was it just like a simple what kind of signal was it? Was it Bluetooth? Yeah. So it’s Bluetooth. They’re about 2.45 billion waves per second of one directional wave form. So let’s breakdown the.Difference of why that’s so challenging for our body. We’re built on scalar waves. Distributed equally in every direction. Man made stuff. Whether it’s electricity, dirty electricity or wireless, they’re all basically one directional wave forms or they don’t work. So when you put something on your wrist like Wi-Fi at 2.45 billion waves per second when our body optimizes that one to eight when we sleep and heal an 8 to 12 when we’re in the alpha state when we’re in the flow state, we’re competing. That’s where really close with the Schumann resonance of Earth, which is 7.83 Hertz so, when we add in 10 zero speed and it’s a one direction polarizing waveform, that’s localized radiation when someones weak or toxic or just has a sensitivity to it for some way shape or form even too young old. Their blood type is an RH negative.Those people will be more sensitive to EMF.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And so what kind of EMF are we talking about? Like, are we talking like the Apple Watch? Would my small little Fitbit that’s charting my steps be enough to throw me off?
Justin Frandson: Oh yeah, that muscle tests weak with that fit. Now out of the gate, they’re having challenges. And they had to lower the signals kind of where Josh still made a documentary movie called Take Back Power on the smart meters. They were ramping up these smart meter signals. They had to notch it down because everyone was getting sick and couldn’t sleep. Same with fit that it’s still now enough where you’ll task a week with it. So I would never, I mean again, this is my whole deal, Doctor J is we gotta get back to listening to your body and how your body feels, not having something tell you how it feels. This meta universe is not OK. It’s not the direction that we want to go into.
Dr. Justin Frandson: So is there any technology you recommend if someone wants to kind of track their steps or make sure they’re doing enough activity during the day, what’s the best way to do that? Is there a certain way that you could adjust that so as a lower lower drain on you?
Justin Frandson: Yeah, I haven’t really dove into the lesser of the evils. What I would say is. You only test athletes. We’ve established a baseline, maybe in the midpoint and point, and the task we’re not doing day-to-day. So know your stuff the day, track them and then use that as your baseline to say, hey, yeah, I feel like I did a few less than I did, you know, or I did way more today. And you’ll know that your body will just feel it. You don’t need something to tell you how you slept or what you did. You have to.Look into yourself to start to feel again.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That makes sense. And so what’s the, what’s some of these wireless signals, what’s the mechanism? What’s actually happening? How is it disrupting us? You kind of went into it a little bit more. I want to make sure I understand. Like how is that actually happening at a biochemical level there?
Justin Frandson: OK, so when we introduce one-directional waveform. What happens is there’s an oration effect in our body, it’s just a secondary effect. Doctor Martin Paul talks about the voltage gated calcium channels opening up less. Yep, letting the positive team into a negative cell, in turn causing tremendous cell and DNA damage. Once that vibration secondary effect happens, what I’ve seen clinically as people’s eyes, their teeth, they’re large and they’re thymus and then they’re large intestine are the four primary areas that decharge EMF. We can use our grounding bags to tap on them and recharge those areas. I’ll go into that a little bit, but then the next level is what we see are cognitive, so focus, memory, behavior, anxiety, fatigue, stress, lack of sleep. They’re gonna be the first signs of EMF toxicity and challenges that people will feel especially.Actually.You know, athletes and they’re gonna make poor decisions, you know, when they’re competing. So this is a huge thing. So the other thing is, you’re going to see more non trauma concussion symptoms, so you’re gonna see basically headaches, more severe headaches, so, migraines. Uh, in the years. Muscle twitching, bloody noses, I mean, these are all the different things that you’re going to see. It’s going to be nausea, fatigue, tremor. Ears, bloody noses, and you go to Vancouver talked about this, the first attack of U.S. embassy workers on foreign soil with microwaves. You know, that was that’s a real deal. These guys are sick for months and then the hospital and they couldn’t get better because they were so toxic, then you go into the bigs, cancer, suicide, diabetes, Alzheimer’s, cardiovascular, and then, now after fertility and yeah, so I see a note here. Yes, today’s stress. Yes 245 ways per second destructores water. Yes, 60 gigahertz, which is a 5G level, changes what oxygen molecules are made out of as well.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And so we have different kinds of Wi-Fi, right? You could have the EMF put it in that camp. We have EMF maybe on our wrist from our smartwatch. We can have our Wi-Fi signals in our House, right. And then we’re going to have cell phone towers, especially the 5G, those, those kinds of the big ones or is there anything else missing?
Justin Frandson: Yeah. So we categorize it into three different types? Yeah. Milligauss magnetic resonance would be one where you get a magnetic resonance where you get a milligauss meter. That is in the 50 to 60 waves per second spectrum. Then we do dirty electricity, which is a static in the line. It measures amps to volts. That would be 4000 to 100,000 waves for a second approximately. And then you have the acoustic meters, the radio frequency meters that measure for the wireless signals from 50 million to several billions per second. So there’s meters to actually quantify and those stressors and those levels of each of those singles. So wireless would be any wireless signal Alexis, NASA units computers that aren’t hardwired. Uh, you’re others smartest.Of the self driving mechanisms and cars, all that stuff off your it’s all wireless. The Dirty electricity would be static in the lines from bad wiring, grids crossing outside your home, rats heating lines, signals going in and out of a junction don’t meet.That would cost static transformers on LED lights inside these new homes will cause lots of jury electricity and then the the milligauss is all the electricity in your home.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So what do you actually do about it? Right, because these stressors are all around us. You’re not going to get rid of Wi-Fi. You won’t even get rid of cell phone towers. Obviously you could do your best to be far away from them or from, you know, at least not to have one right on top of your kids school right nearby. You do your best to kind of mitigate exposure, especially when you’re sleeping, you can control some of the Wi-Fi in your house hardline, or turn it off when you sleep. What can, what are the actual practical things outside of like don’t do it or don’t use it?
Justin Frandson: Practical for. Well, I want to dive into something else, too.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Sure. Let’s go ahead. Let’s hit that first thing, and then we’ll come back to it.
Justin Frandson: OK. Yeah. So there’s a book I want everyone to read. It’s called the invisible rainbow by Arthur Firstenberg. Have you heard that one?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I Have. I heard of the author before.
Justin Frandson: Yeah, he’s one of the biggest names in EMF, and if you guys haven’t read it, I highly recommend it. He categorized as a history of electricity and life and correlates every major pandemic to spikes in the in the.Increased electrification of our atmosphere. So let’s do a little physics and biology lesson here. Our atmosphere is made of Ether and plasma, OK, these waveforms travel through these plasma waves and particles travel through because of that is our air. We’re connected. We are one with the universe, alright. This is how we are made off of scalar with. So everything has a residence that carries a frequency and on man made stuff is all one directional or one word, so if you’re standing up outside of it and you’re in the sunlight. You’re not in the sunlight in one spot and then out of it in another spot. It distributes equally in every direction or biofield of our body resonates. It doesn’t just go out like straight out of your right ear. It’s a residence all around you, the human residence of Earth, you’re not in the residence in one spot and then out of it in another. It’s up there. So that’s what these scalar waves are based on. And so this book, the invisible rainbow. Anything before 1918? Uh, well actually let me backup anything we’ve had since 1889 were solar flares, we’re cosmic shifts. That’s where people have got sick. So they called the flu the flu because it would fly in when there was a solar flare, a cosmic ship. People’s bodies would adapt and then, you know, they get better and then we move on to someone you know because their body just adapted when they needed to at the level they were capable.That’s what we saw before 1889 when we introduced electricity in the homes. So we got home with electricity got shoes on so we’re not grounding and 1918 winner introduced radio waves that was the that was the first the Hong Kong first excuse me that was that was, uh, 1980 Spanish flu and then satellites in the Van Allen belt where the Hong Kong flu, World War Two radar and then 5G for the last two years. So basically what these doctors are saying like Tom Cowan, Andrew Kaufman, Zac Bush, Kelly Brogan. I mean all these and they’re and MD’s, you know, not that MD’s other and they’ll say, well, I’m more of a Cairo guy myself, but this, these doctors that have been medically trained are out there saying that electricity stressors is an environmental toxin and a biotoxin, and what we’re doing is we’re adapting to these toxins and that’s what’s happening right now.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: OK. How do you distinguish correlation versus causation because at the same time the last 100 years you know we’re doing a lot of other stressors being introduced whether it’s toxicity and our food nutritional deficiencies, you know excess antibiotic usage as a lot of other things. So how do you make the correlation of these things happening, but is it really dry? Is it really the root cause or is it just another stressor that our bodies are having to deal with, among many others?
Justin Frandson: Well, that’s a great question. I mean you no one can argue that all these combinations of stressors don’t add up to be a stressor, but I think, when there’s a breaking point, like look, we can call and talk to someone across the globe instantly, I mean, right? So there’s no scratch in your head that you can broadcast something instantly. There’s no scratching your head that there’s a shift in the atmosphere.Yeah, that’s gonna mess up our REM patterns. So there’s too much there for me to go and do that EMF is not often the number one stressor right now. Zach Bush will say it’s glyphosate for the last 40 years of research.I’ll go back and say, hey, look at the invisible rainbow. The bibliography is 150 pages, so most reference books for reading and this is 1889 when it starts. So, there’s no scratch in your head. For me, I live in Newport Beach, California. Healthiest place on the planet. No one gets sick in June, so this year everyone was getting sent to everyone. But a lot of people were getting sick in June. That’s when they ratchet up and turn stuff up. People’s bodies will shift. There’s times where there’s going to be higher levels of certain stressors that are going to be that shift, and that’s what I feel are these triggers for. A lot of these major pandemics and Tom Cowan and a former MD turned in his license, but he’ll say when you pollute the ocean, you know the Dolphins will get sick. Yeah it’s not backed off and given that often a virus or hey let’s look at their genes you know and in 2020 all get sick now that would be stupid. So we’re looking at things like it’s all environmental toxins that are the challenge here and I feel the top two or you know, EMF, obviously the 5G and then glyphosate.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally makes sense. No, I think that’s a big one for sure. And So what can we do about it with the EMF, right? I mean, there’s different devices that you can plug into your outlets to kind of help clean up some of the dirty electricity you shot me over, different things. What we can do is like a Faraday bag and you can put your phone in that or turn your phone off, or definitely don’t sleep near it. Definitely don’t keep it right on your person, especially in your pockets next to your genitals or sensitive tissue. You mentioned crystals and different things like that or rounding math. Let’s kind of go over the top three to five things that the everyday person could do. That’s pretty easy and simple.
Justin Frandson: Yeah, well. First, I distinguished the difference in products out there. So if someone’s looking for a product to clear. Basically what we want to look at is, is it a GMO product or is it an organic product because we all want to get it, we all don’t want something that’s been modified. So for me, I look to the healing power to kick off her residence, to create a coherence with us. So we hand my crystals. The crystals have moisture, magnetic properties in it, you know, that’s where our money bags look like.The other man made devices are devices that are looking to over power another device like. That’s a futile effort, so that’s a genetically modified signal, that’s non-native, that’s looking to replicate what nature already does. So, my first thing is awareness and understanding of the different products that are out there, because if you’re going to look at a product.To solve this. You gotta look to nature to do it.There’s no one who is more intelligent and has those medicinal qualities like Mother Nature. So the first thing would be our grounding bags in your home and you not having bags in your home, you’re outside and you’re getting grounded outside so you’re getting barefoot your touching a tree, you’re gaining bodies of water. You’re doing your grounding protocols outside.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And the goal of grounding is what like you, the goal is you dispersing some kind of positive ion charge in the body. Is that what you’re doing?
Justin Frandson: Yeah, so one of my favorite books is called Electric body Electric Health by Eileen McKusick and she talks about your body being a body battery. You get a negative ionic charge from Earth, and we pull those electrons from it. You get a positive charge from the unpolarized light of the sun coming from above. And then breathe in the minerals and hopefully we get it from our food, but this is how our body battery recharges. And so we’re getting that, getting grounded by nature, being outside, so the sunlight will do it.Getting in those resonances, the negative charge we’ll deal with the bodies of water, touching trees barefoot, laying down on a picnic. Gardening, climbing rocks, all that good stuff like that’s gonna get you that grounding, that negative charge. So that’s how our body battery works.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s good. So you really happened and dispersed a lot of those positive ion charges which you’re going to accumulate when you’re around a lot of these wireless frequencies. Is that correct?
Justin Frandson: Yeah, definitely.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And how does the crystal work? How do the crystals work and do you have to keep them in the bag so they don’t get dehydrated? Can you take him out?
Justin Frandson: Yes, exactly. They have to stay in the bag and they’re sealed and you use it as is, so you keep it sealed. They come like this. And there’s about 1 pound of crystals in here. They work the same way nature does as they kick off a resonance to convert the one directional wave forms and then they feed us the electrons. So that’s the way Mother Nature works. That’s why it feels so good to go to the beach and get grounded and going? You’re recharging your body battery. Literally, scientifically, that’s the physics and the biology that’s occurring. So, as far as using these protocols, well, you can do is you can accelerate this product going to your body. You can hold it top on it. Cover your eyes. Cover your teeth. Cover your thymus. Cover your large intestine one at a time and that’ll accelerate the medicinal properties to recharge you. Because when people have layers of toxicity sucking their energy field and biofield. They’re going to be more sensitive to EMF. If they have toxicity internally they’re going to be a more sensitive EMF, so an internal flush would be protease, digestive enzyme and then apple cider vinegar. That will be a very subtle detox for internal stuck EMF. External, you’ve got your grounding protocols outside and you gotta do the tapping with the grounding bag inside.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: OK, that’s cool. And with the crystals there are certain types of crystal people can look forward to. I mean obviously we, you know we’ll put your site below is a good resource but is there any specific kind of crystal that you find works better.
Justin Frandson: Well, yeah, they’re the average person won’t be able to find it, unfortunately. Amethyst Shanghai black tourmaline. They are known to have Tesla property or magnetic resonance. Well what happens is they’re getting overrun too quickly with all the access to EMF in our world. So we had to deploy a 1 pound bag of crystals of hand mine that would have moisture with the magnetic, so the combination of the moisture with that Mech properties is what allows them to be exponentially stronger for repelling EMF. So the average person is never going to find these colloid crystals anywhere. They’re hand mine, they’re over 85% of here. You’re not gonna find the purity and be able to bring that rest to your home like we have with fees.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s cool. And so the average person can do what with the crystal just put it in, put it on the night stand when they sleep to help kind of provide a filtration of a lot of the EMF frequency. Can they just get a small one, put it on their person. How do you use it?
Justin Frandson: Yeah. So Doctor Justin, when you put it on your bed. At the head of the bed. And if it’s not on it, If it’s under it.Lean it against the leg of the bed, at the head, the back. They’ll sleep 30 to 50% better.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s cool. That’s good to test it. I mean, the whole idea crystals always seem a little out there for me, but. You know, I get it like we can’t see Wi-Fi, we can’t see all these things around us and we know everything does have a frequency to it. So the more you can kind of harmonize that or or or neutralize the negative impact of these frequencies, it makes sense. We know there’s a stress component, especially 5G. And so crystals are one big tool. What else? Anything else we can do that simple? You mentioned the internal stuff, you mentioned enzymes, apple cider vinegar, you mentioned some clays or binders, what else?
Justin Frandson: I mean those are some great things to do. People like carbon C64. I like doing methylation so I like to open up methylation pathways. So I need methylfolate, it is great. You gotta do magnesium. I like some calcium as well as magnesium. And it’s probably one of the biggest things that everyone really needs, like on a day-to-day basis. This is uh, uh, but for EMF protection, just keep hydrating yourself. Get some good distilled water with some minerals in it. That’ll be the most mineral dense water will do. And then structure it. That would be even better.So those are kind of the things that we’re looking at.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very good, Justin. Well, we had a bunch of good things today. We’ll put the links down there below as good references for your site where they can get more information. Any other coordinates or information you want to leave to the listeners here?
Justin Frandson: Yeah. Thanks so much for having me on you got.I just really wanna encourage you to understand physics and biology and what health really is. And good health is really connecting above and getting grounded into nature and smiling and living and touching and hugging each other and being together and that’s that’s the answer. That’s the essence of living for life, having fun and smiling. A smile is the most contagious thing on the planet. So there’s bioenergetic resonances that naturally occur in nature that are stronger than anything. And I want people to stop living in fear and understand what true health is and that our viruses are just our adopted system at work. We’re dead proteins that we produce so there’s No Fear, there’s nothing flying around to kill anyone. We just smile and live for life and you guys the most important thing you can do right now for your health is to do all those and make sure you’re getting out in nature and getting grounded by nature and then when you’re inside use your grounding bags and then also establish pro, turn your Wi-Fi off, turn your electrical off in your bedrooms. Create your home into a really quiet resonance so it’s closer to as human residence, not these one directional, billions of waves per second when you’re trying to sleep and heal.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very good, Justin. I appreciate it. What are your sights again? We have EMFrocks.com.
Justin Frandson: EMFrocks.com. We have clinics all around the country and then athleticism.com is where we have our curated health and performance products and that’s spelled athletic SM for those of you who have trouble spelling athleticism.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: OK, perfect. I will put links down below. People can get access. Oh, by the way, Faraday bags. How, how do you use those by the way? And do you always keep your phone into a Faraday bag? Is it only at night when you’re kind of putting your phone away?
Justin Frandson: Yeah. So we have two sides of the Faraday bags. Thanks for asking, Doctor J.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: How does it work, by the way? How does it even work? Like, what is it exactly?
Justin Frandson: Yeah. So people think of Faraday, they think of a very change where no frequencies going in and out of our static bags are 7 millimeters, so frequencies go in and out of them. So that’s the difference. But there’s a physics component that when you put a polarizing positive charge inside of it, it fairly back squash it to what bio initiative.org would consider safe levels and muscle testing. Applied kinesiology, would our body would feel safe levels that we can handle now what also happens so it dampens the signal strength of your cell phone to safe levels, your phone may or may not ring inside there, but what it also do is is it’s it does is it stops the data harvesting so it slows down the aggregation of all the information, they’re coming from you. That’s the drain on your battery. That’s why everyone’s battery dies so quickly because they are listening to everything. They’re aggregating every bit of your information every second of the day. They know all your biometrics now, if you’re giving him your retina scan, your voice, your face, your Palm imprint, I mean these. These are some of the most individual imprints of your body you don’t want to use for commerce so avoid using fingers, palm print, voice, Retina Face, imprint to get access to your phone, you don’t want that information. You don’t want to use it for commerce because they know your passcode, they know where you live, how fast you drive all this information. They’re just aggregating, sending it to AI to create this meta universe, so as much as I love technology is allowing us to connect where we probably one of because you’re more in Texas and I’m in California but this stuff is cool, we just have to develop proximity protocol with it and understand that it’s enhancing and certain times and then when you’re not using it and get it away from you. They’re already back. If you have to sleep with your phone on at night, make sure things inside the bag are tested and put in there, seal it. You’ll have the best night sleep, your phone will still ring and you won’t have the thing tapping on your shoulder all night long. Saying talk to me, talk to me. This is that it’s essentially, that’s what it does. It’s always looking for a signal.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Is your phone safe if you put it on airplane mode and it’s on you? Is it safer? Is it still less signal?
Justin Frandson: Way better. Way better, because there’s not that wireless looking for that signal. So definitely get it. Get in airplane mode. The next step would be to save your battery because they’re still gonna aggregate through airplane mode. They’re always having these signals on these.Telecommunication companies, they want all your information. They’re beaconing stuff. So they’re always doing this called surveillance marketing. It’s why Apple’s a multibillion dollar company. It’s not an office selling devices. Yeah, they sell a lot of devices, but.It’s this marketing that they’re doing and listening to. They’re selling your information. That’s where they’re really making the substantial revenue from. So slow down this aggregation information actually on your biometrics and we’ll be able to stop this meta universe and really get back to connection with God and getting grounded by nature.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, with a lot of these tech companies you are the product, it’s good to keep your privacy and keep it yours. You know, have control over that. So I like having tools that put kind of these controls back in your hand. So Justin Fradson, really appreciate today’s podcast and we’ll put links down below for some of the some of the good products.That we talked about here today, and I’ll put links to the books that we chatted about in the show notes as well. Have a phenomenal day, Justin, great chatting with you.
Justin Frandson: Hey, thank you, Doctor J, man. Appreciate you.
Collagen & Inflammation Reduction, Sunlight, Epigenetic & Anti-aging Strategies – Dr. Bernd Friedlander | Podcast #377
Collagen supplements are associated with several health benefits and very few known risks. It may increase muscle mass, prevent bone loss, relieve joint pain, and improve skin health by reducing wrinkles and dryness. And since your body naturally produces collagen from amino acids, you can support collagen production by ensuring that you’re eating adequate amounts of protein from foods like animals, poultry, fish, beans, and eggs.
Lastly, Dr. J and Dr. Bernd share that collagen promotes gut healing in inflammatory digestive conditions, such as irritable bowel disease (IBD). By taking collagen, you would help correct a deficiency and potential injury.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani
In this episode, we cover:
0:00 – Introduction
5:13 – Diet Modifications
12:10 – Collagen and mTOR
37:35 – Protein
1:00:37 – Take aways
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey guys! Doctor Justin Marchegiani here. Really excited we got a guest back on the show. High demand doctor Bernd Friedlander, a great guy, known him for many years. He is a fountain of knowledge on many different health topics. We’re going to dive in, let’s see what we hit. I know we’re going to be coming out of the gate.Talking about collagen, reducing inflammation, sunlight, 5G, epigenetics. We’ll dive in and see where the conversation goes. Doctor Bernd, how we doing, man? What’s cooking?
Dr. Bernd Friedlander: How are you, Justin? I’m doing great. You’re wonderful. Yes.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Good, excellent. So let’s start off. We were talking kind of pre show, let’s kind of take that here. You were a chiropractor for the 1984 I think was it the the summer or Winter Olympics?
Dr. Bernd Friedlander: It was. No, it’s the Summer Olympics.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That was in LA, right?.
Dr. Bernd Friedlander: In LA. Yeah. And matter of fact, I got selected for the 1980 Olympics, but there was a boycott in Russia, so we never went there. So what we did is we took over from 80 and get and training the athletes from 78 to 80 while I was going through chiropractic school and I also had a degree in physical therapy and exercise physiologies in a strong nutritional bracket background. So that helped me with uh, you know, working with athletes and now it myself played professional soccer. I ran track in college, I swam in college, so I did a lot of sports. I was into the sports arena quite a bit. And having six, eight years of physical therapy training from 72 to 78, that seemed to have helped me the most, you know, in preparing myself for training and rehab and nutrition and getting into Chiropractic work, all of that help and so in 19.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So you had to have had a connection to get picked for the beat of the Doctor of the 1980 and 84 Olympic Games. So how did that happen?
Dr. Bernd Friedlander: Boy, it’s karma. What happened was I was finishing up my degree in.Glendale getting my LACC chiropractic license. And I was, I didn’t like. I wanted to be closer to the ocean, to the beach, because I grew up there and I moved down to Santa Monica. And had bought a house down there and I was going to UCLA and working out every day, and then I devote relationships with coaches and athletes there.They started realizing that I had some knowledge about training and rehab and and also injuries because of my physical therapy and they found out I was going through chiropractic school and I was getting my degree there.One of the coaches, Bob Bush, they named the stadium after him at UCLA. He asked me to work with him and many of his athletes. He and they were training for the 84 Olympics because the 80 got boycotted and we were working for the 80 at that time with Bob Bush, but we got, you know, cancelled. So we started the program again at UCLA and then I get, I gravitated to Patrick Connolly, who was training Evelyn Ashford, the fastest 102 hundred meter women athlete in the world at that time? And then I was working with Bob Kersee, who was, who took over for Bob Buesch as the head of the UCLA track and field coach. And he started using me for all of his athletes and training them and rehabbing them and giving them exercise programs and then work on nutrition as an alternative to steroids because that was my background there at UCLA, was working on alternative steroid programs for the athletes, and then I started to gravitate with him and all these athletes were coming down to train at the 84. Olympics at UCLA. So many countries came, you know, England, Russia, Germany, East Germany, all these countries came down to train with us. And then I became very good friends with John Wooden and the president of UCLA, and he saw what I was doing and he came up to me and I treated him on a couple injuries that he had and he says you, you know, I couldn’t even walk the other day. Now I’m walking today. You know it’s amazing. So he asked me to come in and he gave me a position, Durham and honorary molecular biology degree that he gave me and he asked me to head up the Sports Medicine Research Center at UCLA. And that’s how I got involved with everything. And then the coaches that I was working with, they asked the US Olympic to have me on the team and that’s how I got involved with it. And I also had my own athletes that was trained.The 84 Olympics, like Ron Brown and I was working with Carl Lewis and other people like that. So I had quite a few people. Bob Kersee had all the female athletes that I was training with.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So when you look at a lot of the athletes that you’ve had insight to how deal with their diets back then when they pretty crappy and they just were relying on good trading in genetics or were they dialed in back then?
Dr. Bernd Friedlander: Oh, my God. Yeah. I mean, Twinkies was their popular dish. Can you believe it? Peanut butter. Yeah. Peanut butter. Reeses cups. That’s what they ate. And that’s why they were always inflamed and injured. And then when I worked in 85, 86 with the Raiders and Rams and Lakers, their diet was mostly pasta and bread and carbs.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I mean you know you’re you’re exercising so much so from a caloric standpoint an insulin wise you’re going to be able to burn that off but your fatty acid profiles so inflamed. So you’re if you get injured, it’s gonna be hard to heal, plus you don’t have any connective tissue building blocks coming in. So as you get injured, the pliability of that tissues and then we just, uh, you get less pliable tissue, less ability to absorb force over time with injuries, it’s crazy.
Dr. Bernd Friedlander: Absolutely. So what we did was we worked on nutrition with them protein, eggs, fish, you know meat and cut down the carbs like pasta and breads and less, uh, rice and potatoes. So we increase almost like a carnivore diet with these people. And
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You do healthy. I mean, obviously they’re burning a lot of carbs. Could you do starches like sweet potato and squash or even white potato? Would you?
Dr. Bernd Friedlander: Oh yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Would you consider those still more anti-inflammatory type of starches?
Dr. Bernd Friedlander: Yes, yes.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: But you were trying to grain and gluten back then, the out in the early 80s too.
Dr. Bernd Friedlander: Yeah, we knew it was leading to a lot of information. I was very fortunate at UCLA that I was involved with so many great minds, you know. One of my patients was Roy Walford, who was the father of caloric restriction diet. So I learned everything about restriction diet and what it contributes to and how it works on the body and he took it too fa into it. I did not. I kind of realized that we can’t do a strict diet like that because we need calories or we’re gonna have oxidative damage and stress and the athletes need to eat. They need 6-7 meals a day. OK. And they needed small protein and they needed the route, right? Amount of carbs from vegetables they have to be cooked and potatoes, they have to be mashed potatoes or rice, they have to be white and they have to be. And we added butter with it. Not Gee at that time because we didn’t have Gee, but it was mostly butter that we used. We use butter for all our training sessions with the athletes. And then fortunately I got a mini companies donating uh research to us, you know, like supplements like Co-Q10 came from Japan, didn’t know anything about Co-Q 10, we started using it, so amazing results. We started using pycnogenol from France. And started giving that to the athletes and saw an increase in oxygen levels. It was amazing. And then knocks gelatin came over and supplementing us with Knox gelatin powder, which then that’s how I got into the collagen. Before I I didn’t know anything about it. And I started talking to the Knox gelatin chemist at that time and they, they were explaining to me how important, you know, it was in rebuilding and rehabbing, you know. It was more for rebuilding, regenerating and and and helping with injuries, recovering it faster and that’s what we use at that time. We use a packet of Knox gelatin with vitamin C at three times a day. And the increased results were amazing with that, wow. And that’s when
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We’ll talk about the amino acid difference with gelatin or collagen, obviously collagen peptides are probably even better because those long chain peptides are broken down, so they’re better absorbed, would you agree?
Dr. Bernd Friedlander: Gelatin is a great product, but it has to still be broken down by the stomach. OK, you need hydrochloric acid, you need pepsin, and you need B6. Collagen is already broken down into peptides. I just knew how to do it even faster and better by eliminating uh by doing a certain enzymatic process to make collagen which made it into a signaling peptide. So you have what’s known as signaling peptide collagen in your product. And that’s what
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: With that. So, so what’s the signaling peptide? What does that mean?
Dr. Bernd Friedlander: Well, what it does, it actually turns, it turns on the signaling effects of the peptides in the collagen. That’s what it does. So you’re going to get better utilization from it, that’s all you know, uh, you know, I started it in an 84 collagen. I was probably the only person out there that knew a little bit about it and was trying to find researchers.Out there, and there weren’t that many companies making collagen. There was only a few companies. And then I started in the 90s, I started meeting a guy, Bob Buesch, I mean Bob Buescher from Great lakes. He was the only other fellow that I knew was into gelatin and collagen at that time. He was more into gelatin, so Great Lakes was more of a gelatin thing. And then as I, you know, got into it, I realized that you as a chiropractor, your patients coming in are all cartilage damage, are ligaments, tendons, muscles and bone. And so I realized one of the most important foods we can supplement people with is collagen, and that’s how I got into the collagen business in the late in the Twenties, 2000s, you know, because at that time I was just using whatever I could from anybody, you know, it wasn’t abundant at that time. Today, everybody’s using it, you know, I got David Asprey bulletproof involved with it. He didn’t know anything about it. I got vital proteins involved with when they came to my lecture at Expo West in Anaheim and they were listening to my lecture and that’s how everybody got involved. They realized the importance of collagen and one of the key importance of collagen is, it’s devoid of three amino amino acids. It’s the only protein on the planet that’s devoid of these three amino methionine, yes, and they’re leaders of mtor, which are inflammatory compounds. They cause oxidative damage, they can lead to thyroid oxidation, thyroid damage. So it affects mitochondrial function. And that’s the molecule that we all live on. It’s mitochondria. That’s the key. That’s what I studied over 30 years ago, was how athletes train and why do they train differently in different countries. And what makes a good athlete versus a bad why I sold the Kenyans and Jamaicans and all these other athletes being so good at, in track and field, it’s because sunlight and mitochondria was the predominant thing in the 80s that I didn’t even realize then yet that I discovered later on was the key to everything and the type of food stage, which was very gelatinous foods, you know, collagen derived foods. That’s where we ate you know many hundreds of years ago and maybe 30-60 years ago, 1000 years ago we were more gelatinous people.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I want to dive a little bit deeper in there. We can go then we can move on. But collagen is so important for me because, one like you said, we eat a lot more muscle meat which is going to be more methionine, Cysteine rich right, not necessarily a bad thing, but we’re missing the connective tissue because we always talk about old foods don’t cause new disease, one of the biggest, oldest foods they’re there was, was, was soups and bone broths putting the bones in, in the pressure cooker or in the pot and really extracting those amino acids. So collagen is really high in hydroxyproline, proline, glycine, both of those. One are really high and connective tissue, glycine so important for gut health that’s I think part of the the guts diet is a lot of these bone broths which really what’s that healing property, it’s that glycine to help with those enterocytes. So you have connective tissue you have gut health, right. And they’re also good precursors, especially glycine. That’s a backbone for glutathione too, because you comment a little more on that.
Dr. Bernd Friedlander: Yeah, well, we know collagen is a perfect food, almost. You know, as you get older. What did they give you in the hospital? Gello, right? Yeah. Besides the other things. Yeah. But you’re getting a sort of a good protein that helps with recovery and rebuilding. One of the things is we’re eating a very inflammatory diet today you know we’re eating fried foods. The worst foods on the planet Earth for the last 30-40-50 years has been fried foods. Anything that is seed oil made with canola or even Avocado oil, olive oil, any of these oils, they’re very lipid, oxidative. They cause mitochondrial damage and thyroid damage, and causes
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Isn’t avocado a little bit higher smoke point though, I know it’s you.You always want to use a saturated fat. It’s better your tallow your coconut oil, but isn’t it a little bit higher of a smoked point than the other ones though?
Dr. Bernd Friedlander: Yeah, but in the body the oxidative chain of the these fats, fatty acid composition are very long. And so they’re more exposed to oxidative damage. And the smaller the chain is, the less oxidative power damage we’re gonna have, you know, and that’s the key. I mean that’s, yeah, that’s why get everything from ghee and butter.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And they did it, beef tile. They had a beef tile up to 89 and then went to soybean oil. So yeah, having it low or some kind of saturated fat that that has the doesn’t have all the double bonds between the carbons. They’re going to be a lot less prone for oxidation.
Dr. Bernd Friedlander: Yeah. So you want less of these little acids, Omega 6, which is the most conducive problems we have today to every disease we know of. An aging is number one. You know, my background was at UCLA was studying aging you know, and athletic performance and and so I got into everything what causes aging, it’s a pathway that we take. And we take the right pathway and don’t make the wrong turns. We live longer and and also we survive longer and we feel better and healthier if we take the wrong pathways and eat fried foods and starches and carbs and you know, in and out burgers, everything out there is conducive to medical medication, that’s what they want. They want the medications, you know, and the more you get.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So if we choose good fatty acids, ideally we want to be choosing more saturated fats, probably more animal fats, or exactly and if we choose. Probably on the more dressing side, avocado oil may be addressing olive oil. Olive oil may be more of a dressing. And then obviously you probably like cooking with ghee over butter just because it has that lactose and casein kind of more pulled out, right? Would you agree?
Dr. Bernd Friedlander: I love ghee. Ghee is my predominant, uh, butter that I use right now for everything. It has a higher point. It’s very high in the antioxidant vitamin E, and it’s very high in Gerald Pollack’s book on 4th phase of water. You know, and how to keep, you know, we gotta maintain that water in the cells. That cells and gels the engine of life. And I was very fortunate to meet the Gilbert Ling on the phone and Gilbert is probably the greatest scientist of our time who discovered how cells function and how energy works in the in the cells in the cytoplasm of the mitochondria and the MRI device was developed by Raymond Amanian, who we just lost recently, and so sad, he was a genius and it was because of the water structure and the protein of the cells, that was the basis for the foundation of how cells work and that’s how the MRI came up to play because of Gilbert Ling work and that’s how Gerald Pollack discovered the cells and gels the engine of life and then the fourth phase of water, it all came around, it accumulated because of the knowledge of all these great minds we have today and going back to college, and one of the key things I think is that collagen is on the nitrogen utilization. Uh, you know, chart. Egg is maybe number one and collagens #2 and then meat. So, also the other thing with collagen does it, it protects us from mtor pathways, inflammatory pathways, oxidative pathways. It the nutrients in the peptides and proteins in the collagen balances us from getting
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: What mTOR is? Just so people have a little background.
Dr. Bernd Friedlander: mTOR is a, it’s a wrap on myosin compound which helps to what it does when we’re young, OK, like we’re growing up in that early, uh two to five, 10,18 years old, we are growing. We need muscles, we need the growth and repair, and we need cell growth. mTOR is part of that pathway. So that’s what helps in helping cells replicate faster. So we get bones, we get muscles, we get organs we get. But as we get to about 30 years old, these things can lead to damaging uh cells like senescence, they can lead to cancer cells, they can lead to diabetes, heart disease. They can overdo too much and we don’t want that extra growth at that period of time, we already fully develop. We don’t need it, so we need to keep it down. And it’s the same thing with the deuterium, the water deuterium is the same thing. We need it when we’re young.The deuterium is a heavy hydrogen nuclear um, you know, that’s found in all the water and foods all over the world. We need it when we’re young. As we get older, it can disrupt the mitochondria from functioning and making ATP correctly so it can damage it. There’s a spin in the ATP process of the cytochrome 5 which makes all the electrons takes the electron, protons and protons. Protons from our foot. With oxygen and sunlight to make every single component of energy that’s made in the ATP chain, and if we have too much deuterium in there, it slows down the spin cycle so the batteries are not working as well, so the body has
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I wanna break a couple things down. You’re saying a lot of good things. I just want to make sure I understand what you’re saying. So First off on the collagen because you really went into that right now talk about collagen and mTOR is it because it’s missing some of those big free amino acids it keeps you need low. So essentially mTOR good when you’re younger, anabolic protein bone, but at some point having it too high as you get older it can cause this cancer growth so. Collagen amino acids are in a profile that is gonna limit mTOR. What else is? Is that correct? And then what else can we do to also limit mTOR?
Dr. Bernd Friedlander: It’s cutting down, well collagen has the best safety factors because it’s so it has zero, um, of these three amino acids. So if you have a certain level of these amino acids, let’s say leucine is a mTOR pathway. It’s in a branch chain amino acid, right? But leucine has to be over 2000 grams of, 2000 grams of leucine a day. If you keep it under 2000 grams like 1000, you’re not going to get into our pathway because there’s not enough of those amino acids to switch it to it. And that’s why collagen doesn’t have these tryp thing, methionine, cysteine foods. So it’s not going to promote it, but certain foods in nature like you know organ meats and meats in general can do that. You know, if you’re eating a lot of it, it will produce mTOR pathways and this research the only known true research today is that was a extension of lifespan by 40% was by the reduction of mTOR. By lowering methionine and tryptophan, specially methionine in the diet. Low methionine diet. Richard Miller, MD, PhD published this work and now it’s well known out there in publication that you know, Life extension is really by lowering methionine and then cysteine and tryptophan.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So what else you mentioned the Omega-6 especially the processed Omega-6is it’s really the Omega-6 that’s gonna be from processing that’s going to get oxidized and damaged and rancidity we have that, does that affect mTOR, what about carbs, what about insulin resistance, what else on your diet and lifestyle can Jack up mTOR?
Dr. Bernd Friedlander: Anything that is rich foods that are in tryptophan, methionine, those cysteine. So if you have a lot of high cysteine foods, high methionine foods, like you know you will, I mean if you over process too much of these type of foods and a lot of fruits and a lot of vegetables have high methionine and tryptophan.Think of this yogurt. OK, yogurt whey protein is very high in tryptophan and methionine, especially methionine. So any of the whey protein that people are using today that are above 25 years old, 28 years old, 30 years old. There’s so many people using it in their milkshakes, in their athletic performing drinks. Whey protein has the highest form, methionine, so it you keep constantly taking that you will get a mTOR and I have seen that with professional lifters, they got increased heart disease, enlarged heart, they had cardiovascular damage, they had kidney failures. So I seen it that these athletes, so if you’re going to have yogurt, have Greek yogurt because the way protein is totally removed from that. So you’re not getting any of the
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: A lot of these amino acids like cysteine for instance, a lot of studies on and N-acetylcysteine with all kinds of different things from lung health to glutathione levels to to helping with virus stuff and and viral replication and immune function, a lot of data on that being beneficial, how does that, how does that connect? Because we see a lot of data on some of these things being beneficial, also tryptophan, you know, that could be really helpful for serotonin, sleep and all that. How do those connect?
Dr. Bernd Friedlander: OK glutathione is a very controversial thing. I never use it, never have, never will. I’ve been doing Cancer Research for almost 40 years, 50 years now, and one thing I learned from the Germans, they were the best in this field. In the 80s when they were visiting me. In the 90s when I went to Mexico and worked with clinics. Glutathione is an antioxidant that protects cancer cells from chemoradiation surgery. They know how to protect themselves, they know how to build the defense systems, and glutathione is one of the key defense systems that cancer cells use to protect themselves from oxidative damage, from death, or whatever. There’s another thing that we need to know is oxidation reduction. OK. Oxidation is how everything is electron flow into the chamber to make energy. In the end of all this is the reduction state. All the electrons are received and they need to be converted back to donation instead of receiving, only if we only receive electrons and don’t know how to donate back. That’s how we end up dying, and that’s how we end up being sick. And that’s how we start aging. It’s called oxidation reduction NAD NADH. And there’s one other thing that people don’t understand is called glutathione, oxidative glutathione and reduction glutathione and everybody today is in that reductive state of glutathione which is only grabbing electrons but is not converting it back to energy. And that’s what we need to do as a living system. We need to have those things functioning. Oxidative reduction states low. NAD High, NADH low. Then we have the glutathione stage, the oxidative stage and the reductive state and oxidative.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I wanna break some of it down for the listeners to make sure we’re on the same page, so when you’re talking reduction, reduction is nothing more than a gain of electrons. You have an extra electron and we’re talking oxidation, we’ve lost an electron. And so the goal with a lot of antioxidants, they’re trying to come in there when they’re in an oxidized state, they’re trying to give off that electron to bring that electron back up to a stable place, is that correct?
Dr. Bernd Friedlander: Right. But then a lot of that, yeah, a lot of the antioxidants are in the reduced state. Think of vitamin C. What does vitamin C? Vitamin C is an antioxidant, but in the cell, It’s ,uh, we oxidative state. In the normal chemistry of this cell or vitamin C supplements, they’re in the reduced state, so they need to be converted inside the cell to dehydroxy C ascorbic acid, which is a oxidative state of vitamin C. Vitamin E is one of the few other ones that really is a very strong antioxidant that can be used as an anti-inflammatory, as an oxidative state. Umm, vitamin and not too many. You know a lot of your polyphenolic, so you know all your fruits and vegetables, especially your juices. They have a lot of flavonoids. And flavonoids are very important in reducing inflammation. But also, they’re also reducing oxidative stress. And promoting electron flow in the electron chamber because they can produce an increase electrons in oxygen and that’s what we need.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: How does sodium potassium pump come into play because we know sodium potassium really important and we know a lot of these vegetables have a lot of potassium. Many large percent of the population deficient potassium. Where do those electrolytes come into play here?
Dr. Bernd Friedlander: OK, that’s Gilbert Ling has shown that these cells do not have sodium potassium pumps. They don’t work that way. That’s Gilbert Ling. Read cells the engine life. Ray Peat is one of the best in the field in understanding sodium pumps.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We need these potassium and we need these electrolytes though, right?
Dr. Bernd Friedlander: No, we don’t really need it. We get enough of those in the cell. It, uh, here’s what it is. If you studied the electron mitochondria. Douglas Wallace, he’s the father of mitochondria by far, you know, and there’s many others. Every disease, 99% of all disease is based on what we call mitochondria decay. OK. And it’s the damaging effects of mitochondria, OK. And that’s all the diseases out there, you know and can. So what we’re seeing is that in nature, there is no, energy is required by the cytoplasm of the cell, and that’s where the mitochondrion takes electrons and makes energy ATP, and that’s how the cell survives. And water is key in structuring the cells, the gels of the cells and so is protein and that’s why it looks like a jello and having that, that’s the key to everything out there. And so if you read the book Cells and Gels, you read Gilbert Ling work, you leave Tom. Do you know Thomas Cohen? The MD. Yeah, he is very controversial because he was against the vaccine and all that and the virus.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: He was up in San Francisco, right?
Dr. Bernd Friedlander: He was in San Francisco and he’s in New York now. And he has now. Yeah, yeah, he’s doing consultation and he’s 100% right about the cells and gels of how the cells exist today. They don’t have any sodium-Potassium, you need sodium and you need potassium as an electrolyte for nerve function, for electricity to occur in the body because we’re a DC current, we’re not an AC we’re DC current. That’s Robert Becker’s book on body electric, and I had a chance to work with him when I was at UCLA and the guy was a brilliant scientist. And that we’re all a DC electrical system. Everything works on that. And it’s all on low frequencies and low, uh, hertz. And everything is low gas. We’re a very extreme low gas human being and when we’re under a lot of high gas, we get damage. And so, uh it if you have a chance, read the Cells and gels by Gerald Pollack, Read Gilbert Ling book, Ray Peat. He’s got millions of articles on sodium pump and then Thomas Cohen’s work and Jack Cruz on who’s a neurosurgeon on biohacking the mitochondria with sunlight. They all know about the cells now they understand, and that’s how they know how to work with the cells and fix it again. And that’s what I’m doing today, is understanding chemistry and how it started 303 billion years ago, how it all came into play.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Alright, so we put a lot of things out here, but in regards to it like the average person listening, they’re like OK, like what am I gonna do? What’s the action item? So give him one or two things that they can do to help improve the cells and gels, the mitochondria, I mean outside of we already talked about a couple of things with processed food, we already talked about sunlight, collagen, you know, having the mTOR, the Omega-6, what else can be done kind of low hanging fruit wise?
Dr. Bernd Friedlander: You know, I think, I think going back to how we were created OK and who we are OK and what chemistry of life created us? 600 Billion, uhh, million years ago, sunlight was starting to develop and just going back to little history so you understand who we are. The sunlight was developing and was maturing and chlorophyll was present 600 millions years ago. But it was needed by plants. And then 500 million years ago, the Sun developed even stronger and UV light, A, B and C was the foundation of the sunlight. That’s the strength of the sunlight. And it was maturing 500 million years ago. And guess what, that’s what helped to create the hemoglobin, which was the iron part of the blood, not the magnesium is part of the plant. But then the mitochondria was developing because at that period of time, the UV came through the ozone layer and tripled the lay amount of oxygen in the atmosphere and that’s what created life. All of us. So that’s what helped with us was the sunlight. And the sunlight and the mitochondria was perfect. The oxygen levels was perfect. Thermodynamic temp, Temperatures of the ocean and the land was perfect. And that’s why things started developing humans and everything. So going back today, we live in an indoor world. OK. All the food we can eat today, it doesn’t make a difference because what we need is the function of the mitochondria and that is stimulated by the whole spectrum of the sun’s, not just the portion of the spectrum. The ATP cycles this cell electron transport C1,C2,C3,C4 and C5 requires photosynthesis to occur in order to make energy in the food. So we need to be exposed in the sun more early in the morning. So we get our circadian going, our pineal gland and thyroid going. That’s how we get a stimuli. Then at lunchtime, we need to expose ourselves 30 to 60 minutes of with no shirt to get vitamin D and unique cholesterol to make vitamin D so you cannot deprive yourself of the cholesterol foods. That’s how you’re going to get sick. And then again, you need that they are reduction of blue light at night, so you need to escape blue light and that’s where you try to get some sunlight in the evening because a different spectrum of light, so we’re exposed to blue light damage, artificial lighting, and it was all discovered by a guy named Kessler. We need to develop the AC current. Remember that? And what did they operate in the 1800s? Kerosene in the street. So we were using artificial lighting then, and that’s what started the decay of the human population since then. And then the other thing is realized, we need good food. We need to get good water, Not fluoride, fluoride, you know fluoride is a damaging effect in water. We need to get non fluoridated water. We need to ,Um, We need to eat a higher amount of protein and less, Uh, starches and carbs and not. So we don’t, you know, vegetables are good, but they’re not because they can cause a lot of oxalates and oxidative damage to the thyroids. Yeah, there’s a lot of estrogenic foods in nature.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So can you get protein from animal products? Can can you be making vegetarian in your mind and be healthy and get your protein from animal products strictly?
Dr. Bernd Friedlander: You have to be from animal products only. That’s how we do.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And why though? Why?
Dr. Bernd Friedlander: Well. Did I lose you?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: No, I’m here.You’re going. Alright. Well you’re well you’re kind of getting your stuff here. I’ll kind of riff on a little bit. I mean the reason why I think Dr Bernd may be a big fan of animal protein and they I am as well obviously is going to be just the amino acid profile you’re going to get essential all your top eight or nine essential amino acids with a lot of vegetarian proteins. You gotta combine them, and when you combine them, usually you’re missing either methionine or lysine or protein. You get to combine them. The problem is when you combine them, you get a lot of extra carbohydrates. You know when you typically combine animal or or vegetarian proteins? Rice, beans, whatever, quinoa. Usually it’s about a 60 to 70% starch.To your 15 or 20 grams of protein. So you end up getting a lot of carbohydrate. So people attend to do OK on the vegetarian, vegan type, they tend to be more ectomorphs, tend to be people that do well on high carb foods if you’re more prone to insulin resistance like I am, or most of the population.You you’re gonna get too much carbohydrates for you and for your activity level and so you really gotta choose good animal proteins where you get the proteins, you get the fats obviously. You’re also getting less Omega 6 less to the inflammatory foods that are going to be in those vegetarian protein, so it’s good to get it from animal sources that are pasture fed, um, naturally raised, grass fed, whether it’s eggs, chickens eating bugs, whether it’s whether it’s beef and grass and cows and grass, whether it’s chickens, whether it’s Lamb pasture fed diets going to shift that fatty acid profile and that fatty acid is more in the natural state, it’s in any more anti-inflammatory, nutrient dense and you’re going to get a lot more nutrition in in the animal product. So we lost Dr Bernd here. So I’m going to just keep on riffing unless he can jump back on here and just try to provide a lot of value for y’all and if you want to kind of chum it, come in here in the chat guys and just put some questions in. Feel free and rip off some of that. So just summarize, collagen, really helpful, really good building blocks, connective tissue for your joints, ligaments, tendons, you’re not going to get that animal protein. So, love collagen, again, I worked out to Dr. Bernd to kind of formulate my own collagen that has the the peptide form. We’ll put links down below where you guys can get it. Um, the problem with a lot of collagen on the market, they’re made with sulfuric acid, so when you blend it in coffees and teas, you taste it. It’s got this really not so good after taste. So when you use proteolytic enzymes, it’s gonna blend better, it’s not gonna have the after taste and then you get these signaling, uh proteins in there which are which are really important. So if you have joint issues, especially as you get older and you started to see your gaps and your X-ray start to drop a little bit. That the hip or the knee and you started to go bone on, bone in knee, the connective tissue building blocks to build back up that joint base. Very important. If you don’t bring the raw material in, you’re gonna have a problem. Next big thing, you should need the Omega. You know, good quality fatty acids, more from animal. If you’re gonna do more of the vegetable, make sure it’s keeping on the the low temperature side. Very important. I’m a big fan. Doctor Bernd, is more of a carb guy, but you can see him. He’s a leaner, he’s a leaner kind of wiry guy, right. He’s going to do really good with more carbohydrates, those kind of things. You gotta adjust your carbohydrates for your body type. So if you’re kind of a an ectomorph, think of that as the the dancer, the basketball player, leaner, taller person, then you need to adjust. You could probably handle more carbs, if you’re the mesomorph, that’s the in between. I’m kind of the mesomorph. I’m kind of like the, the linebacker, right. You can be lean, but you can also get big too. And then then you have the endomorph. That’s the the lineman, right? That’s the the person that’s more prone to just to be big. And gain weight with carbohydrate, yet to figure out where you sit. And then you also have to look at your activity level. If you’re walking ten, 15,000 steps today, doing a little bit of lifting, you can always get away with more carbs. The more active you are, the less active you are, you got to adjust that.Well, get that to Dr. Bernd back on here. Let’s see if I can plug them back in. Alright. Bernd. We were just kind of riffing that. I was riffing a little bit here on collagen and fatty acids and we had a little collagen. Yeah, no big deal, we’re just kind of roll with it. Can you go back and just talk about joint issues? Umm, have you seen a lot of case studies your experience people with bone on bone or serious joint issues. Have you found they’ve been able to build that joint back up with collagen?
Dr. Bernd Friedlander: You know what, in combination with your, uh, the work that we do and using red light in infrared light. Heat lamps. I think the combination we definitely need collagen for the recovery, I found an interesting study
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Have you seen clinically though, you can build that joint back up when it’s already worn down, when you’re like, hey, I may need a knee or hip replacement in a couple of years. Can you avoid that? Can you build it back?
Dr. Bernd Friedlander: If you still have cartilage left, OK. And I think, you know, most of us do.If we use a certain, I found that if we go from 60 grams to 100 grams of collagen.There’s a greater chance of recovery and rebuilding and restructuring the cells, yes, if we get you know. Umm.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We lost some folks. I’m gonna keep riffing here. So yeah, Bernd’s talking about bringing that collagen up to 100 grams or so. Again, usually you get about 10 to 15 grams per scoop. I do about 20 or 30 grams a day. I put it in my coffee. My collagen, it blends well, it just acts like a Creamer. It just thickens it up and then I’ll throw a little bit of butter and MCT oil and blend it up. I try to get good fats cause you gotta think of eating good healthy fats. That’s support for your cell membranes, right? Cell membrane health is so important because that’s how your cells communicate. And the more you consume fatty acids that are going to be more on the oxidized side, that’s going to create oxidative stress that’s going to deplete your antioxidant reserves. It’s also going to make your cell membrane stiff and inflexible. We’re just talking about cell membrane stiffness with all the excess fatty acids here, but go ahead with the collagen and the joy of recovery.
Dr. Bernd Friedlander: So I feel if we, uh, use a combination of.Vitamin D calcium and a good gym diet and keep the collagen up about 45 to 60 grams a day, which is, you know, and I’ve had 100 grams a day with many of my athletes. I seen faster results from college and you know, I’ve seen better results with the higher level of you know collagen in the grams, adding calcium, vitamin D and light therapy and as much as he, If we can generate into that area. So we can get
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: better more articulation over like chicken or fish multi collagen, is there a reason why you like the beef better versus the other?
Dr. Bernd Friedlander: The reason I like better and I you know I’ve used it only if pretty much in my whole career going back to the 80s, maybe a little pork at that time because of Jello. Gelatin.Yeah. Um, At least I today I know I’m getting quality I would would beef. I know I can get grass fed beef. Chicken. There’s no way of getting grass fed chicken. They’re mostly using, uh, soy and corn, right? And so you’re getting hormones in there, you’re getting estrogen. And then in the no control of the environment that then because there’s so much contamination today in the water. And what they’re feeding them. So I don’t really use that either. It’s all because of the process of how they’re made. If I can get collagen and I get beef that’s grass fed 100% all the way to the end, I know I’m getting quality and I’m getting, you know, consistent results.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That makes sense. So that’s very good And how does, how does the? What? What the animal eats? Whether it’s cows eating grass or chickens eating bugs, how does that affect the amino acids? Do you notice like collagen from let’s say factory farm chickens or factory farm carbs? Does the amino acid spectrum in that collagen change? Which shifts?
Dr. Bernd Friedlander: In collagen, you know, the only thing I notice is the quality of the collagen comes from a good source of grass fed cows, OK? Umm. So I can tell the difference with my clients and patients for years, their response, their results are better. I’m getting you know, yeah and I’m not getting any of the inflammatory conditions and I don’t have to worry about any of the hormonal factors that may be found in residues and really low residues in these things. You know and then the vitamin E level and collagen is a little bit higher in grass fed animals than and they’re lowering in you know the polyunsaturated fats. So I’m getting almost none of that in my grass fed.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s good. So someone else listening here, we talked about sunlight, that’s easy. Obviously we don’t want to get a sunburn. We talked about mTOR and insulin and fasting and fatty acids. What else can someone do to kind of help put their kind of start signaling those healthy anti-aging Epigenetics, right, the genetics are just kind of what’s there that’s that’s the hardware that’s already written. We’re talking about the epigenetics which is the software to help maximize that hardware use. What else can we do to optimize our epigenetics to be in that anti aging, healthy aging kind of path?
Dr. Bernd Friedlander: Well, you know, eating a good meal, right? Having the right proteins, almost reducing the levels of polyunsaturated oils from seed oils. Umm.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Any other thing, is anything else more nuance and anything that yeah, my life reducing, they got anything else that’s more nuanced that they may not have heard before?
Dr. Bernd Friedlander: Reducing stress. Go for walks, get in the sun more often. Eliminate the amount of exposure indoors with blue light technology, you know, uh, put, if you’re going to bed here is the most important thing you can do at a certain time in the evening, do not look at your video or cell phone after 5,6,7 in the evening, OK? Get your body and mind ready for sleep and regeneration and anabolic steroids and all the stem cells that comes at night.That grows back. Get rid of all the Wi-Fi. Turn it off. Do not have your cell phone in the bedroom. Put it on airport mode or.I turned the whole phone off and I never have my Wi-Fi on during the days. Most of the days I’m inside and I’m very rarely inside and so I try to keep my bedroom free of any EMF electrical magnetic or radiation and I have a meter and I use that meter to give me sort of an idea what’s going on and I like, I like to try feel that’s the one I use because, Yeah, and that’s one I use every day for everything. You know, I go in the people’s home and I see what’s going on and I can say here’s your EMF levels, you need to reduce that and the only way to do that is unplug most of the electrical keep your refrigerator yeah and you know certain things on but you can pretty much turn everything off and if you can the, best thing is get a Ley line you know i know we’re out of it people don’t even know there’s Ley lines anymore. But you know we don’t lay line is where you you plugged in everything you know
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: a landline.
Dr. Bernd Friedlander: Yeah. I’m sorry, landline. I meant landline. Yeah. Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Some of my patients that they’re. It you, you can also just try killing your breaker box to your house. Just kill the power for the night. Again, may not work. Yes, yes, yes, yeah, fridge come. But you can at least kill your room if you want. Again, it just depends upon how chronically sick you are too. You know the more sick you’re right, the more you can decrease that electromagnetic stress if you’re pretty healthy you could probably. That’s probably something you can adapt to. How do you manage the 5G stuff? Because that’s kind of everywhere now and these things are harder to avoid.
Dr. Bernd Friedlander: I go in the sun pretty much every morning, every afternoon I’m 2-3 hours in the sun. If I’m exercising, I’m exercising outdoors totally. I’m walking. I’m grounding myself. I walk in concrete. Or the best ideal place to walk is is in the beach. You know, being by the beach is ideal. That means there’s no 5G’s there and you’re grounding your body and you know, uh, getting back to nature, that’s really who we are. And try to limit the out indoor as much as you can unless, you know, get John Ott’s lamaran or any of those full spectrum lightings. Start using natural lighting back in the inside you know no LED’s and you know try to avoid that and get more of a full spectrum light. Where the it almost gives you the same resonance of a sunlight you know and that’s what you want to do and eliminate as much as you can 5G just don’t be near it and the like I said don’t be on the phone, don’t be on a video and avoid it. And I wear blue light glasses for last 10 15 years anyway at night, so if I’m exposing myself to anything I always wear my blue lights. And I have it all over my house now, blue light lamps. You know where they produce red lamps.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I love it. Dr. Bernd, very good. Well, anything else you want to highlight and leave with the listeners? I think you kind of put some really good information out there, fatty acids, collagen, the right types of collagen. We talked about sleep, we talked about light. Obviously with light you don’t want to get burned.Right. You want that minimal erythemal dose, morning hours, yeah, 8-9 or so. Later on. But just don’t get burned, would you agree?
Dr. Bernd Friedlander: Well, here’s how you do it. Your body is exposed. The uh, you know, exposing yourself to UV light is how life started. OK, that’s the creation of every living system in our planet, OK, and UV is part of the importance of the mitochondria and building the mitochondria and all that. So what I’m thinking and what we need to do is, you know, don’t if you expose yourself slowly every day a little bit to sunlight.you’re not going to get burned OK. Burn only happens when you have a bad diet. If you eat a lot of polyunsaturated.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: mornings exposure, you haven’t acclimated your skin to it.
Dr. Bernd Friedlander: Yes, I have no problems because I’m in the sun all the time, so if you go out in the sun. And you expose yourself, uh, 30 minutes, 15, 20 minutes in the morning. You’re protecting yourself already by doing that. Then at lunchtime 12 to 3, where UV is the highest, you’re not going to be damaged by it so much because you’re already developed a defense mechanism against that through the early sunlight, right? And if you’re worried about it, take an aspirin. And if you take an aspirin before you go out in the sun, you won’t get burned. And this was a study done in Israel, in Australia, about 1990s, that sunlight, taking an aspirin before going out on the sun doesn’t cost any inflammation or sunburn. And that was one of the two studies that they’ve done in Australia, the papers I read. It was phenomenal. So I take aspirin every day, especially at night, to protect myself against clotting mechanisms and strokes and cardiovascular things.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So why you choose an aspirin over ginger or some kind of something a little bit more natural? Because there’s an aspirin have other type of potential side effects though. Gastrointestinal upset or maybe a liver stress?
Dr. Bernd Friedlander: when I attended.The anti aging conference in Las Vegas. One of the people I met at the one of the speakers was the head of Bayer aspirin researcher. Yeah, and his whole speaking assignment that day was on Fox 2 Gene. It’s an anti aging gene that’s seen to be found in certain animals like you know worms and mice and now it’s shown to be in humans, aspirin actually extended the Fox 2 gene. So you’re not going to get diseases and aging and aspirin has probably more clinical studies than any other nutrient on the planet today. For anti-inflammatory condition for it’s mitochondria function I used to give my athletes coffee and aspirin to increase uncoupling mechanism which increases mitochondria function in the cells. So it has so many potentials, you know it, it is a truly, instead of causing reduction state in the cells, which we were talking about how oxidative states is the key and keeping electron flow going into the mitochondria and keeping our Redox cycling function going. So we’re donating electrons back to the energy chamber. Aspirin does that and and when you take with coffee in the morning, it doubles the uncoupling mechanism. So our athletes is so much like a steroid for them they can see a difference. And I’ve had people say this is worse than a steroid. I’ve never seen anything so good as aspirin and coffee and if you take it at night, it lowers the inflammatory condition. And one thing I learned from a cardiologist at Harvard was that it protects us from ever getting a stroke. When we get up in the morning, our cortisol levels are high.The potential for a blood clot to occur is greater at 4, 5, 6, 7 in the morning then any other time of the day. It’s because we’re just getting up and the blood is getting very stagnated and there’s a clotting mechanism and aspirin protects that. It prevents the platelet aggregation so it doesn’t happen.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: What about curcumin though? I’ve seen a lot of drug companies kind of focusing on the research of curcumin with anti cancer. It’s everywhere plus we know curcumin is really good for that platelet aggregation reduction that blood thinning effects. What about using that too, what do you think about other natural compounds?
Dr. Bernd Friedlander: You know, it’s interesting. Um, I work with Elizabeth Dimarzio, University of Florida AMM. OK. She’s the leading world expert in inflammatory compounds from herbs from all over the world, OK? And I’ve been involved with her for over 10 years now, and I’m on her board. And curcumin was not even close to being the highest in the anti-inflammatory or anti tumor cancer things, there were so many other compounds like Boswellia. If you’re gonna take anything Boswellia would be my second choice from aspirin because it has a Cox 1 and Cox 2 inhibitor. Yeah. And so there are many other herbs she found that a lot of the Chinese 1000 year old herbs, 2000 euro have tremendous medicinal benefits in anti-inflammatory and antitumor and frankincense is one of the big ones and Boswellia and ashwagandha.Those yeah, ashwagandha is very good. I would pick those over curcumin and turmeric would be on my second choice. My down the line 10th, 11th, 12th, because turmeric is the whole plant and has much more medicinal purposes.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So if you had to choose like whether a drug like aspirin or ibuprofen, you would choose the aspirin any day?
Dr. Bernd Friedlander: Every day because it also has a key molecule in there that we discovered in one of the research at Ohio State University Medical Center and at the Florida AM. It promotes ATP production, Mitochondria. Ibuprofen, Tylenol has a reductive state. Aspirin is an oxidizing state.It helps with oxidation. So that’s why I would choose that, because of the oxidative state. The oxidation of aspirin is very high, so it helps with mitochondria uncoupling. So we’re getting more ATP production, where Tylenol and all the other ones do not have that.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Aspirin profound effects on mitochondria is it uncouples mitochondria oxidation and induces mitochondrial permeability transition. Interesting. That’s cool. Yeah. Take a look at that.
Dr. Bernd Friedlander: Yeah, I have hundreds of papers on aspirin, so we can move on that anytime. Absolutely.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. That’s very good. Awesome. Well, I appreciate that, Doctor Bernd, very cool. OK, anything else you want to leave the listeners with, drberndfriedlander.com We’ll put links down below and we’ll put some reference links to the collagen that we’re talking about and they’ll be show notes.Up with everything. Kind of transcribed for y’all. So you wanna go through. They actually read the transcription. That may be easier for you all. Anything else you wanna leave, listen with Dr. Bernd?
Dr. Bernd Friedlander: Well, starting out the day. Get some sunlight, have a good breakfast. Don’t skip on protein. Protein is just so crucial. That again in the, uh, utilization of nitrogen.There was no plant protein on the top list. This is scientific studies that were done. And so you wanna stay on a good protein diet. You wanna make sure you get plenty of sunlight, you do the right exercise. Don’t overdo it. Don’t get into oxidative stress. Um, you know, casually. Uh. Be careful with fasting too, because fasting is a stressor. The body goes under stress, so you don’t want to go on too much. People are doing too much. Uh, fasting and not getting enough protein. And so the quality of repair, regeneration is reducing itself. So we’re seeing more injuries, we’re seeing more carless from like you probably have everybody’s talking to me in the gym say, well, you know I gotta get knee replacement this replacement that replacement because you know they’re stressing the joints out and not eating the right foods and like you said, collagen is necessary in keeping our cartilage up and ligaments and tendons and muscles up, but it lowers the inflammatory mechanism that is produced by majority of all the foods we eat today. And that’s all the fried foods and all the carbs and starches and wheats and grains. And we got Roundup in all our foods anyway. So that’s another problem. We haven’t even talked about Roundup, you know, and how it’s damaging mitochondria. It’s literally damaging the mitochondria. It’s costing ATP damage. And that’s another study
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I have a question I wanted to hit you with. So we talked about kind of cardiovascular exercise, right? There’s a lot of different types of cardio you can do. There’s some data on just kind of that long term steady state type of exercise being harder on your adrenals, more catabolic, but there’s data out there on Tabata, our interval type training is also I think it’s couple of people out there. Peter Attia kind of brought it to light the zone two type of cardio. Uh, where you’re keeping your heart rate and that you know mid to low one hundreds, you’re, you’re, you’re you’re still able to talk while you’re doing some exercise, whether it’s rolling or an elliptical. What’s your take on different types of cardio and their application, whether it’s an interval, Tabata, zone two? What do you like? What do you recommend for the average people?
Dr. Bernd Friedlander: You know, being an athlete specialist, exercise physiologist, I have changed my attitude to a lot of these things from the beginning, when we were excessively training people. I’ve learned more in the last 20 years about how to preserve the mitochondria. How not to damage it. OK, so if I do anything, I like walking. I don’t wanna stress my body out anymore, OK? I’ve done. I’ve been an Olympic athlete. I’ve been a professional athlete and I’ve seen the injuries that come with that, I’m very fortunate that I never had an injury in my young life, you know, until about 60 when I had to replace my hip because of the excessive wear and tear of my body as an Olympic athlete.Training five different professional teams. Coaching 3 Olympic teams, you know, 80, 84 and 88, it was too much. So I find that it is best to do some walking and some concentric workout. What’s a concentric workout? Short centric shortening the muscle, but on your way back down you still wanna show use resistance so you’re using resistance in both direction like slow push up 10 second push-ups, where you only count to 10 seconds going up, going down, 10 seconds holding in
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Holding it the whole way. That’s a long contraction.
Dr. Bernd Friedlander: That was our studies in the 80s at UCLA, was concentric and short 10 second uh, workout so when you’re doing a curl. You take uh, I’m trying to show you it’s the curl is goes. You going like the bicep and you code down. Slow, slow, slow. Yeah. And you do 10 seconds up
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 10 seconds.
Dr. Bernd Friedlander: Yeah, same thing. You get a better workout in the shorter reps than you need. You don’t need that many reps.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I mean, I’m a big fan of slower eccentric because the problem is that prevents you from lifting too heavy weights and it’s lifting too heavy with crappy form that bounced the weight or that hurt their back and the deadlift or squat. So when you have that slow eccentric, it’s really hard to hurt yourself on the end. Also, I just, I was thinking about this here. You got guys like Tom Brady who are just playing forever, is he consuming collagen? What do you think he’s doing? Obviously we got the book. He’s kind of autoimmune paleo guy. What’s he doing then to kind of keep himself longevity wise with his joints and everything else. You have any inside game on that?
Dr. Bernd Friedlander: Well, you know when I was in a starting to work with a lot of the athletes we were introducing.Uh, hyperbaric chambers. We were introducing infrared saunas in the 80s. You know, nobody knew about it. Today, most of your athletes are using, you know, some many different forms. They’re using infrared saunas.They’re using red Infrared light therapy, they’re using heat. They’re using vibrational things, Shockwave. A lot of them are getting PRP. They’re getting uh, ozone therapy. I can tell you a lot of these are professional athletes and are becoming more aware of what’s going on. I used, I knew Tom Brady. I played basketball with him when he was in high school in Sierra High.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Is he in San Mateo, because you’re, you want right down the street from him at San Mateo.
Dr. Bernd Friedlander: Yeah, I gave him a couple adjustments, you know, quietly at the gym. I knew he was a very bright individual and you have to be very bright. Like Howie Long was my favorite athlete overall. OK, here’s my really first really favorite athlete that I work with at the Raiders. And at that period of time he was very bright. He understood diet and he understood, you needed to do a lot of flexibility, like Pilates, yoga or stretching. Jerry Rice is like that. Jerry was very much into stretching. Tom is much more into that as well because
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Pliability work. He talks about it.
Dr. Bernd Friedlander: Yeah, it doesn’t do a lot of weight training. And when Howie Long started working out with Lyle Alzado, his, you know. He started getting disc herniation and hamstring and calf damage and that’s How I Met him. And I think was you don’t want to do too much weight training. You do just enough. But you gotta do flexibility and if you don’t do that, your career is not gonna be long.You need to elongate the body, you need to do it alright. And I think people becoming smarter, you know, and I think nutrition is very important. I can only tell you the athletes I work with. I cut down their carbs, I increased their proteins and fruits and et cetera so that they have a better quality of health. As they’re working out.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I love it. Doctor Byrne. Well, let’s put a book in on this. Let’s bring this conversation back up. I’ll get you back on in a few months. We can continue the dialogue. I appreciate it. We’ll put links to find you. drberndfriedlander.com. Anything else you want to leave the listeners, Doc?
Dr. Bernd Friedlander: No, just enjoy life. Don’t get into everything you know. Stay away. Medicine really is your, you know, eating right, getting sunlight.Little exercise. That’s the medicine. That’s all you need. You don’t need anything else. You can live without taking any blood pressure medication or other medications because nature was there. That’s where we started. That’s what we need to get back to is live outside, eat, right and get plenty of natural lighting and enjoyment in your life. Just let food be your nature, but now your sunlight too.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Dr. Bernd, I Appreciate it. You’re the man. Great chatting with you. We’ll talk soon. You take care.
Dr. Bernd Friedlander: Alright. Thanks. Bye. Talk to you then.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Bye.
The Secrets to Addressing Lyme and Parasites with Dr. Jaban Moore | Podcast #375
Lyme disease is an infectious disease caused by a bacterium called Borrelia burgdorferi. It is transmitted by a tick bite infected with the bacteria. When an infected tick bites you, the bacteria pass into your body through its saliva, then multiplies and spreads.
In this video, Dr J and Jaban Moore discuss the different strategies to address Lyme from food templates and lifestyle modifications, plus medical strategies that effectively address these issues.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani
In this episode, we cover:
0:00 – Introduction
9:09 – Pathways
18:36 – Strategies
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey guys. It’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani here. Really excited for today’s podcast with Dr. Jaban Moore. Really excited to have Dr. Jaban here on the podcast. We’re gonna be diving into the areas of Lyme and parasites. Really excited to go over the nitty-gritty of that topic. Dr. Jaban, how are we doing today, man?
Dr. Jaban Moore: Oh, I’m doing great man and this is one of my favorite topics. I love talking parasites. We all got them. We all talk about them in my clinic because well we were sick at one point and it’s just so much fun to get people information so they can get well and feel amazing.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Most people in this field because you’re a functional medicine DC. Most people kind of have a cool story of why they got into this field whether it was like kind of the journey of the wounded healer where you had some health issues and someone helped, to help you, kind of uh step out of them or improve your health and performance. What’s your story like? How did you get to be where you’re at now in this field?
Dr. Jaban Moore: Man, I was a, uh, I thought to be healthy young guy. I went to college as a shot putter ended up becoming all-American and shot-putting college so I was a big boy. I was fit. I was healthy and then when I went to lose that extra weight that I put on for shot put it felt like the floor just fell out from under me, my health crashed and burned and nobody had an answer for. No one had a reason why pain started. I started losing hormone function right so I got erectile dysfunction. My brain didn’t work as well and you know for my whole life, I was so healthy and I just didn’t understand why and I can tell you looking back now, I lived in college like so many people do. We live in and stuff is not as nice so there was mold literally growing up the walls of the basement that I lived in and I can just remember back now looking back like you know my performance started kind of dipping a little bit when I moved in there and I didn’t feel as well and I got sore throats more often, I had more stuffiness but I just didn’t think about it because, right college guy right like I’m not going to think about that. We got things to do, I’ve got school to finish and athletics to do and then what I’ve seen in a pattern with so many people is when they go to lose weight some of those extra toxicities go into their system and then I was also in a stressful situation when I was in school because I’d gone from undergrad to chiropractic school that’s where I lost the weight and that was just finally the straw that broke the camel’s back and for years I searched for an answer and I never found one until I went to Dr. Alan Lindsley, a friend of mine now, who was like hey man you’ve got Lyme and we’re gonna have to work on this but you should be able to get back to normal back to you back to being young and 25 like I was at the time, um, because I looked healthy. I just didn’t feel it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: What was your diet like back then? Where you kind of standard American in regards to lots of grains excess carbs those kind of things to keep the weight on a lot of poofas kind of following a standard American higher carb diet or were you more healthy or paleoish.
Dr. Jaban Moore: I mean back in college, I was definitely eating everything. I mean, If I need a lot of sweets but I can remember taking a bag of water of tater tots and um you know the big huge tortilla rolls and just filling full of cheese and meat and that would be lunch because I was trying to gain weight. I drink a gallon of milk a day back in college trying to gain that weight but one when I actually got sick when I felt bad when I was in chiropractic school and I was eating not totally organic but I was eating more of a paleo type diet it was lower carbs, it was no vegetable oils, it was pretty much whole foods so could it have been a little better yeah but it’s not where you think you go from this college diet to eating healthy losing weight getting well and then the floor falls out so it didn’t follow that patten of what most people think until I really stepped away to look what happened.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it. Okay. All right so you’re eating this diet that was probably wasn’t as good. You go to chiropractic school obviously there’s more awareness there you’re learning, you’re getting your inflammation down, your nutrition density is going up. What happened next? Did you ever find out if you had any gut bugs or was it more the Lyme and the Mold that kind of took the top priority there?
Dr. Jaban Moore: So, when I was in school, I actually never even thought about Lyme or sorry not Lyme, mold. I never even talked about mold. Dr. Lindsey didn’t talk me about mold because I moved out, I moved out of that basement when I was an undergrad, I moved actually back home to my parents’ house because I was buying my chiropractic school and I was trying to save money just like I was trying to save money when I was in the basement of that horrible duplex back in the day but um so I’m living with my parents so there’s no more mold and it’s probably two years before I lost all the weight and really got myself to a doctor that understood what was happening because I’d gone to others and they just didn’t give me answers so, but, by the time I got to Dr. Lindsey, he found Lyme that was out of control, Babesia and Bartonella and those are the main bugs that we worked on. Now, throughout my journey of health, I’ve worked on parasites. I’ve done a slight amount of mold detox but I think genetically for myself not being HLDR, I’m not MTHFR, so, I think my body was able to clear some of that mold. The years after I left school, I left for my undergrad, right, so, mold suppressed me a loud Lyme in. My body couldn’t handle the Lyme but five years later I had detoxed most of that mold out so that’s why I think that didn’t pop up but definitely parasites and so much Lyme and Babesia and Bartonella work. Those guys, we did a lot of work on and those are the things that really changed the scene for me because treatment for each one those for about a month and I was probably 80% better which is a very rapid healing process but Dr. Lindsey took good care of me and I think genetically my body actually is pretty resilient. I’m more of that warrior genotype but mold man, mold just knocks people down especially when you’re living in a lot of it for a couple of years.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right. So, you’re talking about the genotype so not everyone’s going to be super mold sensitive right. Some people could be around a bunch of molds and they can just deal it and adapt, some are gonna be a little bit more sensitive. Any more info on those different genotypes like which ones are more sensitive which ones are less.
Dr. Jaban Moore: Man, there’s so many genes, there’s more than a thousand epigenetic genes that great plains laboratory used to run so I haven’t tried to understand all thousands you look at more at the test that we run these days which is a little bit smaller, I mean, should I’ve seen some that are 100 most are in the 50 range and the problem that I have with epigenetic testing is when I know there’s a thousand and let’s just say for grains right now, right, like, 50 or for methylation and if you have 25 that are hypermethylated and 25 that are under methylated then what are you, are you even, so what I end up doing is I run homocysteine, I run methanoic acid, I’ll run a hair test and urine, yes, that I’ll test bees and I will go this is what is happening in your body so if I see a hair test from somebody that has a lack of let’s say sodium and potassium so your cellular energy is going to be low, you’re not gonna oxidize or you’re not gonna detox well, if I see homocysteine low or cobalt in your hair test low, homocysteine would be a blood test then I know that you probably don’t process B vitamins well so therefore you’re not gonna be methylating, you’re not gonna be able to detox well so these are the things that I’m looking for more than genetic side, I bring up the genetics because some people like, well, genetically I’m just like this or they’ll say well why is it that you could deal with some mold, but if I walk into a house with mold in 30 minutes, I feel really awful it’s because we all are a little different and I think it was Ben Lynch, I was reading his book and it clicked with me when he said you know somebody’s got to fight off the saber-tooth tiger when you’re a nomadic tribe back two thousand years ago, right? Somebody’s gotta fight off the tiger, um, but then some, they need to when they taste the water, they get sick really fast, it doesn’t kill them but they get sick really fast so then they tell everybody else, don’t drink this water. So, those are more of your canary in the coal mine and you guys have people that may be worried or a little bit more anxious so they’re always keeping an alert so that if somebody was invading your tribe that they can wake the warriors up to go do it, I think I’m more on the warrior gene type but honestly I work with all the people that are a little bit more the canary in a coal mine and I think that’s because of the fact that mold knocked me down even though it’s harder to take me down, I still can so I’m sympathetic and then once we can get people that are more of the canary side, if you can actually supercharge your mitochondria, you can pull them from feeling so bad to being actually really resilient, my wife’s a little bit more on that uh canary side and if I give her a bunch of mitochondrial support she can tolerate stay in that hotel room that we probably shouldn’t be staying in but unfortunately we already paid for it we’re in there and you know you’re going to Mexico, how are you going to get a tropical environment at a hotel how can you possibly find a room with no mold.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s almost impossible. It’s gonna be very difficult 100%. So, yeah, I totally agree, right. you want tests that look at function versus the kind of this static genetic genome which is just is what it is. It’s not gonna change but like you mentioned you can look at the different detoxification pathways phase 2 detoxification, methylation markers, right, B6, folate, B12, yeah, and these you know really matter because if you have a poor diet for you’re chronically inflamed or you have gut issues and maybe you just have a lot of malabsorption of a lot of these nutrients, yeah you may see, you may run different functional tests that show these pathways nor working well and that gives you kind of a starting point to kind of work would you agree?
Dr. Jaban Moore: Absolutely. I always tell my clients when they asked me about genetic tests, I’m always more than happy to run these for you and we can talk through them but you know what tests we ran is what is, those tests are what could be.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And it’s not gonna change things too. I always say is this gonna change the treatment or the plan if we see you have genetic markers from mold sensitivity if we already know clinically and functionally these markers over here are kind of guiding us in this direction. They really got to change what we’re gonna do.
Dr. Jaban Moore: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And so, how often are you testing the person’s urinary levels of mold versus the environment like the person’s living? Do you prioritize one over the other and then when do you even jump on the mold bandwagon because you know if someone has a crappy diet and they have adrenal issues and poor digestion you know, any symptom under the sun could look like Lyme, look like mold, how do you prioritize?
Dr. Jaban Moore: So, I definitely run some tests at the beginning uh, day one, before people even walk into my clinic. They call my office, they talk to my new client coordinator and she goes hey he’s gonna want to see just some of these tests based of the things that you’re mentioning oftentimes those tests can include an organic acid test, a hair tissue mineral analysis and then a basic blood panel. I’ve got about nine different types of people that show or blood panel categories that she goes through and just looks at like, okay, this person can fit into this category do you already have these labs if so, he’ll look at those. If not, we’ll order them for you so that by time you get to him, he’ll have information for you to provide a direction and then of course we have assessment tools like a bunch of questionnaires and I also do some muscle testing that will allow me to just understand more about a person but the way that I dive into moles,
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: In regards to muscle testing, what kind of things do you do there, you just kind of testing the organs, you use any vials to kind of get a sense of what’s happening there?
Dr. Jaban Moore: Yeah, I definitely test organs, also test vials, um, to understand what’s going inside their body whether that be if their body would resonate with a toxin or infection that gives me a piece of information that I can then blood test, urine test to prove out
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Gives you an area to look at but they’re like a telemedicine patient, are those still options for you or you go right to the lab testing?
Dr. Jaban Moore: I do both. So, you can do frequency testing or even bioenergetic testing. Some people have machines that are biofeedback machines where you can send in hair or nails, you know, you can send in urine, they can be read by a machine, I do frequency testing, self-testing myself, and then I actually have a friend that will run bioenergetic testing as an additional tool if we need it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Cool, excellent. All right. So, with the mold, what are the top things you utilize to kind of help, let’s say, increase detoxification capacity, binders, nutrients. What are the big things you see kind of in your clinic that really move the needle and work for you?
Dr. Jaban Moore: So, when it comes to mold, the thing that’s moved the needle the most is actually not even addressing the mold itself, it’s making sure that they’re safe. So, you’d ask, um, when do I look for mold, right? When do I even look for? So, if I see tests that suggest you might have mold, I’ll run a mold test on the person as far as their urine, so a DNA test which would be a mycotoxin test from either great plains laboratory vibrant America, from there if I see that that’s positive, I’m immediately gonna ask for a test on their home, I start with a Hermes test and it’s about getting away from the mold so if it’s a high mold test then we’ve gonna do some things for your home to be able to actually address that mold because if you’re living in it and your nervous system is flared up from it, oftentimes you’ve got to get your nervous system to be able to come back down. That is one of the absolute keys so getting you away from mold if you’re highly sensitive, if you’re toxic to it is step one from there I’ve actually started doing neurofeedback with a lot of the clients that I have that are dealing with mold toxicity neurofeedback in a very specific way though I use it for disentrainment so to breakdown that wall that you put up that tells your body to stay in fight or flight because it’s an unsafe place, so one get you to safe place, two, break the wall down that says that you’re not in a safe place because it’s just like PTSD, I call it autoimmune PTSD where your body thinks that it is still in this very unsafe, very dangerous place due to the mold and then the third thing I do is I slowly start to supercharge mitochondria, right. So, I’m gonna bring in things like CT minerals from cell core which are just minerals but they’re fulvic ally bounded so they actually give your cells nutrients to build themselves to flush out that toxin. The second thing that I’m gonna be doing is I’m gonna be opening up the pathways that mold can detox out from so many people don’t do parasites, bacteria or mycoplasma before mold and what happens is that mold starts trying to come out of the body and as it gets to let’s just say if there’s a liver flukes in there if there are bacteria in the gut that are disrupting causing inflammation and that mold can’t come out then if recirculates and it causes your body a tremendous amount of hexing and difficulty if we’re recirculating mold when we’re trying to detox it then you get all your anxiety, depression, panic, and paranoia type symptoms from detoxing mold without being able to get it out so by time I get to mold I use those energy supplements like CT minerals, mitochondria support and binders.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And a lot of those minerals bind to mold toxins too, aren’t they also binders in a way?
Dr. Jaban Moore: Some of them are 2400 trillion. Different combinations of fulvic and human so some fulvic-humic can be supportive to the mitochondria because it’s hydrogen carbon and oxygen and that’s the main components of the human body so some can support your mitochondria. Some can bind mold, some will bind metal but not mold and it really just depends on which ones you get so if you get some from cell core and it comes in it’s carboxy, it says it can bind mold so that one can but if you get it from systemic formulas and it’s in their enrg and it’s designed for mitochondria, and that’s gonna do, it’s not gonna bind mold. So, you got to make sure that you use the right combination that they that and the company’s done the research to prove what it can do because not all fulvic humas created the same.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Because I know they have some ATP products for cell core that are more mitochondrial side but you look on the back of the label. It doesn’t really differentiate you know the different types of fulvic or humic so you kind of look at carboxy and you see similar ingredients but you just kind of have to trust the company that hey these are gonna be better for mitochondrial function. These will be better for detoxification.
Dr. Jaban Moore: Absolutely. There are so many things that we can actually look at that are very similar for instance oregano. Oregano is one of the oldest herbs that people know about. Oregano has more than 200 phytonutrients in it so if you use a leaf versus stock versus stem versus root, it can actually have different effects in you body or have different potencies of what it’s capable of doing and then you see that with medications, they use different parts of a plant to have a medicinal use and they create a medication based off that phytonutrient so when it comes to fulvic and humic, it’s like where did you get yours, what mine did you mine it out and what combination of these carbons and hydrogens and oxygens did you get and that’s how it’s gonna affect your body so you want to make sure that when you’re buying a product that is a product that you know what the purpose of it is for and it’s from trusted information and trusted people so you know I’ve used a lot of cell core products, I know what they do and don’t do I’ve used other products excess systemic formulas, I’ve used so many different ones that have fulvic and humic and they just work differently.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, when you look at a lot of these kind of people that have mold right, you kind of prioritize what’s going on, I almost always prioritize getting the gut better, getting the diet better, getting nutrition better, getting digestion better so I find if those kind of pathways aren’t kind of dialed in, I mean, like you mentioned you kind of push mold but you may have a bottleneck on getting it out, you kind of have a similar kind of methodology and how you prioritize the systems?
Dr. Jaban Moore: I definitely do. You got to be able to poop. That’s definitely water because if you’re not pooping it’s not coming out and then I’ve got to make sure that I get the bigger out first, the bigger organisms out first so I don’t necessarily think it as going after the leaky gut or diet or something. It’s like okay so the bigger organisms because they’re gonna be blocking up your detox and drainage pathways. Now, the diet honestly so many people that get to me are chronically ill and they’ve done both vegan and paleo, they’ve done history, they’ve done all the things so I don’t usually stick so tightly to the real deep diet conversation because they’re already locked in their whole food organic and then x, which is like you know are they carnivore, vegan, paleo, whatever, because diet doesn’t matter, you need to eat clean. You don’t want to be causing retoxification, you want to make sure that you are doing the detox or you wanna make sure that you’re getting the stuff out so I do the open up strange pathways but the biggest one that I have really really stepped into so much now is the nervous system. I make sure that my clients are doing some kind of either neurofeedback, vagus nerve retraining something to deal with the trauma, that has happened to their immune system because so many clients, I’m working with have become sensitive or overreactive, anxious. So, as I work with these people, the nervous system has become a huge key component that I talk about at the very start so it’s get yourself into a safe environment, make sure your body knows it’s safe, make sure you’re doing anti-inflammatory lifestyle and then it’s start getting out the organisms kind of by size, I mean it’s not always that way, seventy percent of the time I find parasites first if they have them but then it goes bacteria, mycoplasma, mold, metal, radioactive elements.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And what type of biofeedback program are you recommending? Is it something that patients can get on their own? Is it something that you’ve been trained in? How does that look and how do you incorporate that?
Dr. Jaban Moore: So, the biofeedback that I’ve used is just the testing site. I don’t recommend necessarily going and doing treatments on it, not that you couldn’t. There are people that do those types of things, but I just have a friend with the machine and if somebody wants a biofeedback reading that can add to our information, I’ll have them go ahead and go over to his office and do that, or send something to his office because I do so much telemed, because I’m working with people all around the world. They’ll just send a sample of, like I said, saliva, fingernail or hair. And then he can use his machine and scan it and let us know what he’s dealing with. There’s more of the testing. Some of the countries that I work with, that it’s really very difficult to get, organic acid test or blood testing. They just don’t have those resources.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right. And so, let’s say they’re neurofeedback testing is off, what’s now the treatment to kind of get their nervous system so they feel safe and kind of more relaxed and steady?
Dr. Jaban Moore: So, we’ve said two things. You said biofeedback which is sending the sample, neurofeedback is different. This is a sound light and color therapy, and it is actually the test is a Q EEG. So it’s a cap that you put on the head.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: OK, got it.
Dr. Jaban Moore: That cap reads the electrical frequencies in the brain. So it tells me what your brain waves are actually doing. And then.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right. So how are you doing that? Is that in your office?
Dr. Jaban Moore: That is in my office or I’ll refer people. I’ve used clinics in London, I’ve used clinics in Spain, in California.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You’ll just look for like a neurofeedback in that area and essentially, yeah, like lights count, lights, sounds, colors and then essentially it creates different what sound if you got to get into more parasympathetic state.
Dr. Jaban Moore: So it’s actually reading your brain waves so it’s delta, beta, alpha and if they’re too high in energy or too low in energy, it’s going to read that, and then it’s going to create a plan to bring you up. And then while you’re going through the plan, it will actually be reading your brain. And if you use it, it’s like the carrot on the end of the stick, honestly. If your brain energy is too high and we want to bring you down, it will turn the TV screen off and the sound off when you’re too high. So your brain is like, wait, what? What’s going on? What’s happening? And then when it drops back down to the lower level to let you watch TV again. So, you know, we don’t put anything that’ll make you jump on TV while we’re doing it. So it’s like blue planet, and you’re there watching an interesting part and you’re just like, oh, this is great, and then it shuts it off because your brain went too high of energy and then drops back down. So it teaches you to bring that energy level down. But how I’m using, it’s a little bit different. That’s the main type of neurofeedback. What we just described, what I’m doing is actually called disentrainment neurofeedback. So I’m using it to disentrain. So it actually opens up the amygdala, which is a part of your brain. That is usually the part that will protect you from traumatic situations. So, it blocks your memory. It blocks your ability to remember whatever happens. So, if you were at war and you had a bomb drop in front of you and that traumatized you.Then you don’t. You come back and you don’t remember why, but when fireworks go off, you dropped to the floor. You freak out, you get scared, you have anxiety, you don’t sleep. So then what we do is we do disenchantment. So it actually takes the amygdala and it kind of shuts that off and allows you to remember. And now that you’re back home and you’re in a safe place, you can go, OK. That happened to me when I was at war. But I’m safe here at home now. I’m OK. That firework is not the same thing and you can resolve that so that your subconscious isn’t battling your conscious. And then now that can let your fight or flight come down because you’re not in constant what what happened to me in the past? I know something happened in the past, but I don’t know what it was.This is where nervous system get stuck. The same thing happened.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: EMDR and EFT and tapping stuff. Isn’t that kind of similar in how it’s kind of decreasing some of that subconscious type of trauma within the nervous system as well?
Dr. Jaban Moore: I do recommend both of those at times, but neither one have I seen make the massive changes where I’ve had somebody come to my clinical fly and I’ve got somebody here right now from Ohio. I walked right by her to do this podcast and, Uh, she’s done both of those EMDR and EFT, and they’re both phenomenal. But what I’ve seen from neurofeedback, disentrainment specifically the disentrainment part is people will come out of my clinic and they have a 20, 30 50% reduction and their sensitivity or their bodies fight or flight state just by doing 10 sessions and they do those ten sessions from like they started Monday, Monday morning, they do a brain map and then they do two sessions and they do two sessions a day for five days. So, they’re done and within the work week they’re done. They go back home and they’ll get somewhere between 20 and 50% reduction and their fight or flight state, which allows me to be able to do so much more work, so much more faster with them because their body isn’t so reactive to the detoxes or the supplements, their body is able to calm down, which also allows their immune system to function better, their energy system to be able to produce better. It’s so incredible.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, if someone were to find someone like that, right, that’s just neurofeedback. Design, uh, say it again.
Dr. Jaban Moore: Disentrainment.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Disentrainment, yeah, got it. And then is anyone that would have a site that’s kind of trained in that good enough or is there a certain kind of certification or criteria?
Dr. Jaban Moore: So I fell into this on accident to be honest.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Are you trained in yourself or do you have partitioner that works for your clinic?
Dr. Jaban Moore: I am trained in it myself and we have a machine in my clinic and the most common person that does neurofeedback will do entrainment. So they’re trying to entrain you to do something so to like lower your brain or raise your brainwaves like I was talking about earlier. I did the disentraintment with a staff person of mine who had been through a lot of really terrible things. So I called the company, I was like, what would you start with for a person that’s been through all these terrible things? Well, do the PTSD protocols. So I did them. She had a couple flashbacks. She had a couple of memories during the day and nightmares and things and then she just slowly started to calm down and she actually became like a different person almost because her fear and trauma that was leading and controlling her life started to fade away. I was like, well, wow, that’s really interesting. That works so well for you. And I have all these other patients that are coming in that are also in a fight or flight state, but not from traumas that were emotional in their life but from being sick. So I go what if it will work for them? So I I had them do it, which is again, I’m using the PTSD trauma setting. They just and the company that I bought my machine from, they call it disentrainment because it’s breaking the barrier down. The problem is most neurofeedback providers out there, they want to entrain. So what you’ve got to be very careful with your words and say, I wanna disentrainment. I wanna do PTSD, I wanna do trauma. I wanna call my nervous system.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Disentrain. So, there’s entrainment and then disentrainment.
Dr. Jaban Moore: Yes.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And then entrainment is primarily used for what?
Dr. Jaban Moore: For? For trying to solve or fix a testable problem, meaning a higher low energy in the brain based off of the brain waves. So you’re trying to bring the energy down in the frontal cortex so that you have less anxiety or less irritability. They’re doing a symptom based treatment.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it. More of a symptom, kind of calming, relaxing, where the disentrainment is more helping with that PTSD type of subconscious trauma?
Dr. Jaban Moore: Exactly.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: OK, that’s cool. And so we have kind of the parasites, the lyme stuff. We mentioned these as being kind of bigger issues on the detoxification side. They can kind of bottleneck a lot of the mold detoxification. When you test for urinary mold metabolites, for instance, do you try to make sure that detoxification pathways are working a little bit so you can actually get some mycotoxins in the urine? Or do you do it without any type of glutathione or anesthetic cysteine challenge? How do you assess that?
Dr. Jaban Moore: So I like actually doing it both ways. I typically do it with no assistance whatsoever at the start because if I test your body for urine test for mold and they get mold positive on the test and you’re doing nothing to detox at all.Then it gives me a hint that you’re probably in the environment still.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right. That makes sense.
Dr. Jaban Moore: If I test you when you’re doing a detoxification protocol or push or provocation and it comes out, then I don’t know if it’s now or if it was in the past. And I have no frame of reference on that because if I’m doing glutathione push, then it could be 20 years old and I just don’t know that information. So for me, it’s more important to make sure again that we’re in a safe place today, because if you’re in a safe place today, then I have a good chance of getting you well. If you’re not in a safe place today, then I got to get you to one.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Would you ever want to just test the home first before you do a urinary mold test to see if there’s anything positive with her right now, first?
Dr. Jaban Moore: If I have any suspecting, if they suspect, if they show me a picture of hey look back here on the wall does this look like mold and I’m like yeah it looks like mold. OK let’s just run the test on the home. It’s actually less expensive anyway. But if they’re like I have no idea. I don’t see any mold anywhere else smell any mold anywhere but I see that they’re albumin level is high in their blood work that they’re Methylation, toxic exposure marker and their oat is elevated. I see their oxalates elevated. I’m like, I think you probably have mold. Let’s do some further investigation on your body through a urine test and then from there the home test.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: What about colonized mold, like on the organic acid test you may see like fusobacterium or Aspergillus, organic acid markers are really high. Is that just more from yeast in the gut that’s kind of just colonized there and that’s producing a lot of those metabolites. Is that just addressing the gut issues?
Dr. Jaban Moore: That’s not how I’m reading it because I’ve had so many people that have gone through practitioners that have done anti yeast diets, they’ve done the oregano and capric acids, they’ve done diflucan and nystatin and they still have those markers elevated in their body. Umm, so I have not found that those organic acid test markers mean candy to yeast. I found them more to mean mold toxicity. And then I confirm it through running a urine test and then a home test.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right. So, that mold is colonized in the gut so that the environmental mold in the home is also affecting the gut. So you’re trying to hit it from both sides either way, right? You’re trying to fix the gut as well as the environment still.
Dr. Jaban Moore: Absolutely. So you get the environment well, but while you’re getting the environment well, you’re going back in and cleaning out the mold, the yeast, and likely the bacteria and parasites. Because, if you get Aspergillus fusarium, Stachybotrys in your body, it suppresses your immune system and it allows every other organism you come into contact with to start to colonize your body also, so it’s never just that one thing. So if you’ve got those positive on your oat test, I’m just going to automatically until proven otherwise, which will run the test, assume that you’re going to have these other organisms and I’m just going to start cleaning, healing and sealing the gut while making sure that you’re getting into a safe environment, rebuilding your mitochondria and your mineral content. Because most likely when you deal with somebody with mold, they’re going to become electrolyte deficient because their bodies so stressed out from the mold that they just constantly urinating out all their good stuff.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Makes sense. And so when do you switch gears and go after lyme? Because I find you have been doing this for over a decade, decade and a half. I’ve seen so many patients that come in and they’ve gone through the Lyme wheelhouse where they just seen so many doctors and they’re like lyme, lyme, lyme. They put them on tons of, you know, antibiotic protocols or tons of lime killing and they don’t really get better. When do you prioritize Lyme? Um, I still find that I try to address everything else hormonally gut detoxification stuff and the idea with that stuff later on. Because I find a lot of times, like you mentioned, when the immune system gets better and stronger, those things kind of tend to take care of themselves. But I’ll still kind of create specific protocols. When do you go after that specifically?
Dr. Jaban Moore: So lyme would probably fall to my third to fourth most important piece. So say you have everything that I’ve mentioned on this on this podcast, right? You’ve got parasites, gut bacteria, yeast, lyme, mold, radioactive elements, heavy metals. I would probably go parasite. So assuming we’re in a safe place, trauma aside, we have parasites, GI bacteria and then I’m going to go to systemic bodily bacteria which would include Lyme disease right there. So that’s about third and then I’m going to go from there to mycoplasma and then into mold. So those would be my first five that I’d be going after.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it. And then what are your favorite herbs that you use? I find that when you go after like a lot of gut bacterial bugs, there’s an overlap with a lot of the herbs that you may use, let’s say, for gut stuff that may kind of crossover with lime, whether it’s olive leaf, oil of oregano or noni or neems, there’s a big crossover there. What are some of your favorite herbs? And do you notice that crossover too with some of the gut stuff?
Dr. Jaban Moore: Oh, there’s definitely crossover. So if I test, I’ve got people where I had to give him a little road map. Like these are all things that came back positive. We’re going to work on this many and the rest are probably going to go away. And what I end up seeing is we we clear the digestive track of of parasites. By the time I get that done, if I had a way to tell you zero to 10, which you know energetic. Testing, muscle testing can. So I’d like, okay, zero to 10, Lyme is a 10. By the time I get the parasites out, they’re like, oh, it’s a six, it’s a 5. So then we don’t have to do nearly as much work on those things because you’re stronger. And my favorite herbs, I mean ones that you didn’t mention would be like Japanese knotweed.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I think you already mentioned Noni.
Dr. Jaban Moore: Noni is one of my favorite herbs out there, so phenomenal. Gosh, Wormwood I think is another good one. Those are definitely some of my favorite ones that are using a lot of those for lyme too.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You silver at all too?
Dr. Jaban Moore: I really don’t.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You do biofilm busters too?
Dr. Jaban Moore: I do use some biofilm busters so I use some Serrapeptase, nattokinase which are both digestive tract enzymes and then supreme nutrition. I do use a little bit of NAC. NAC is kind of part of my liver support supplement. So it’s already in there. Now that’s obviously a dose that’s not known to be as as biofilm busting. You know some people have really high dose NAC for biofilm. But I found BFB from which is a combination of essential oils from supreme nutrition is actually a nice topical one because people will get where their hands are still really stuck or their elbow still has pain. And I’m like, you know, we’ve been dealing with Lyme and Babesia, let’s put some BFB out here topically, let it absorb through the skin and also the pain starts to fade while we’re going through treatment, whereas just the treatment alone didn’t do it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: On it. You use like a lot of adaptogens as well to help?
Dr. Jaban Moore: It depends on the person. So you know some people that have pots or that are are just really depleted. If I see that albumin being high, I think dehydration you can throw some, definitely some rhodiola, some ashwagandha, the supplement I actually use is from Quicksilver, it’s Nano mojo, it’s a Pump bottle so it it goes in easy, and whether you’re a kid or an adult, there’s no worry about taking a pill. So yeah, I definitely use some adaptogens. I probably would say 30% of people I work with get some sort of adaptogenic or energy type support.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool, excellent. Yeah, it’s all about the priority, right. You got to have that confidence to be able to work people through all the changes so you can kind of get those optimal results. What’s the next thing? So we talked about Lyme, we talked about parasites. Anything else you want to highlight specifically on the parasite side? I mean do you do anything to kind of open up drainage to help with dye off preventatively? Or do you try to just kind of build a good foundation so when you come in to addressing some of these bugs, patients are less likely to hurx and have significant die off issues?
Dr. Jaban Moore: Yeah, so using Mimosa Pudica which become popular the last couple of years, is it really the pair of one? Yeah it can grab hold of whole sized parasites and help to pull it out so that when they die they don’t just decay and let out all the toxins from inside them into your body. They can carry 6 to 8 times the body weight, their own body weight and.That’s a lot of toxins in your body would have to clear if we can’t pull it out whole. But you know I do start clients with detox support. You know we start with just like you mentioned earlier it’s like do you eat right, OK, yes, you eat right good. So we’re we’re we’re peaked out on that being as far as anti-inflammatory we’ve done the neurofeedback work where your immune system is not going to be as reactive. If I can do some sort of nervous system type work. I usually start with something like tudca plus from CellCore or
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Some sort of liver gallbladder thing.
Dr. Jaban Moore: Yeah, liver, gallbladder. So whether that be milk Thistle or even a gallbladder flush, I’ve had people have to do to make sure that we’re moving again. I said earlier, make sure you poop. And then doing things like Castro pack and dry brushing so that when you start doing your body and you start working on it, because these herbs are not just staying in your gut, you’re going to have to get them out of your lymph. So teaching tools and techniques to allow someone to be able to get that drainage moving first and I, you know, some people talk about all you got to do it for two months before. I’m not that kind of person. I’m just like. OK. Do you react to things? Yes or no. And if people know that they do not react to supplements, they’ve been able to take other things that were strong biocide and or otherwise and have no reactions. I’m like OK, well we’re not going to spend a whole lot of time on detox initially because you don’t, you don’t react. Your body probably drainage wise isn’t too backed up or I get the other people like you know, I react to everything. OK. We’re going to spend a little bit more time. We’re going to spend a month making sure your body’s draining appropriately, that your nervous system is calmed down because if you’re hyper reactive, it’s one of those two things is backed up.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, that’s really good feedback on the on the neurofeedback side, that disentangle or disentrainment. I think is a good one that I’m going to work in with some of my patients that are overly sensitive because I do agree, right.That nervous system is just so overly stimulated where everything’s gonna be sensitive. I think it’s really important to kind of have that calming effect. And that’s good that you added multiple drainage kind of modalities to help improve kind of things moving. What about a whole body vibration? You thought about that. You incorporate that at all.
Dr. Jaban Moore: I don’t incorporate that a lot just because I feel like that’s a little bit harder for a person to have, to get to. I love it. I mean, a few of my clients have vibe plates at home and it’s awesome. You’ll find a clinic that they can go to and do it well. The reason why Kate said Castro pack or dry brushing first is because, to be honest, they’re cheap, easy and anyone can do at home.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s good. And so when you do dry brushing right, it’s kind of a light stroking you are trying to go back to the heart, Is that kind of the goal, that kind of keep that circulation moving.
Dr. Jaban Moore: Yeah, it’s always take it back to the heart. I actually have a video and a guy that I give to people when I recommend it just so they know what they’re doing. Because there’s actually like the drainage ducts that are a little bit more out in your packs that you’re trying to go to and then you actually drain the pecks out to those. But the, the rule of thumb for me for most of the time is just frustrate to the heart.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, that’s good. Very good. Anything else you find to be really important, we haven’t really addressed yet today in today’s conversation?
Dr. Jaban Moore: You know a big piece that says we’re on the the modalities, right? It’s coffee enemas. Coffee enemas can be an absolute game change. They can increase your glutathione 7 to 800%. They get you to go to the bathroom, right? So if you’re constipated, they make poop. So those have been a really big tool for me just to get people moving.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s funny.Think about Doctor Bob Rakowski, good friend of mine. Uh best part of waking up is Folgers in your butt. That was his saying for a while, so that’s a good one. Excellent. Anything else, man?
Dr. Jaban Moore: That’s the the majority of the the fun stuff, right? That’s the big topics right there.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool. Well, drjabanmoore.com is Jaban’s website. We’ll put the links down below if you guys want to reach out. And again, he’s available via telemedicine health. It’s got lots of content. Uh, all the social media links will be up on his website. Feel free and engage him. Very helpful. Great resource of knowledge there. Dr Jaban, excellent chatting with you man. We’ll be in touch real soon.
Dr. Jaban Moore: Yeah, man. Thanks for having me on.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You too, man. You take care.
Hair Loss Restoration, Improve Testosterone, Inflamm-aging & Inflammation – Jay Campbell Podcast #373
Having a lush and full head of hair is a treasure we all want to enjoy. Having thick hair is seen as a sign of being youthful and having vitality — even being sexy. Millions of people find that they’re suffering from thinning hair or hair loss, called “alopecia” in medical terms. It’s a common problem that affects both men and women. Medical hair restoration is the only way back from thinning hair for many people. For a select number, though, their thinning hair is due to inflammation.
Dr J and Jay Campbell discuss that the good news is you can help your body control the amount of inflammation you’re experiencing by making simple changes in your diet and managing your stress levels. You can take a proactive approach to your hair restoration by eating a diet rich in anti-inflammatory foods. Try anti-inflammatory beverages and foods. While hair restoration is not an overnight process, making these small changes in your diet can support your body’s efforts to heal itself.
Reducing your inflammation can give your hair a chance to regrow. Be sure to reduce your intake of foods that promote inflammation and approach your doctor for a professional and safe course of action.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani
In this episode, we cover:
0:00 – Introduction
3:35 – Hormones
49:27 – Insulin Resistance
55:17 – Peptides
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And we are live. It’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani in the house with Jay Campbell. Really excited for today’s podcast. We’re gonna be talking about a whole host of things from hair loss to improving testosterone, inflammation versus inflammation as well as just increasing consciousness. Jay, welcome to the podcast, man. How you doing?
Jay Campbell: Doc, man, it’s an honor to be here always when I got a chance to speak with people in our profession who are knowledgeable. I’m privileged and humbled to be here. So, man, let’s make this amazing.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent. Very good. Well, in the functional medicine community kind of where I work, there’s a lot of people that complain about hair loss especially kind of people coming post-Covid, right? We’re doing a lot of nutritional things, diet things, improving digestion, absorption, trying to get inflammation down. But I kind of found you because you have a couple of products out there that I’ve heard some really good things about that kind of improve hair loss, improve hair restoration, outside of like you know your typical like Propecia, Rogaine, Minoxidil type of medications. I want to talk a little bit more about that just kind of out of the gates. Go ahead.
Jay Campbell: Yeah. So, it’s, uh, again, thanks for being here. It’s an honor to be here with you today. I’m very excited always whenever I get the opportunity or the chance to talk about hair loss, um, when I speak about hair loss, I usually, for people that aren’t really up to speed, um, I kind of like dropped the hammer because as you know from reading my articles but you’re one of the few that actually wants to drill down to that rabbit hole because you know that article that was on ben greenfield’s website last summer that was three parts is over 10 000 words right? So, most people today don’t read in that depth but there’s a lot of science now out there that teaches us the real definition and cause of hair loss and drum roll please. Hair loss is caused by blood flow restriction to the scalp. There’s nothing else that causes hair loss but blood flow restriction to the scalp and blood flow restriction to the scalp is actually caused by a myriad, you know, number of things. I mean, there’s probably, I could give you a hundred answers as to what causes hair loss and you know that obviously is covered, uh, that is micro irritants that is you know heavy lead poisoning that is overexposure to the sun, that is stress, that is lack of sleep, that is hormonal related hair loss, right? So, DHT inhibition, uh, you know, women that have autoimmune disorders lack of sleep again causing cortisol spikes and you know over increases of prolactin, I mean, again, there’s so many different answers IGF-1, you know, insufficiencies and overproduction, so there’s so many different things that can cause hair loss but we definitely at least now know that if we can control for the loss or the blood flow restriction to the scalp and do things to increase blood to the scalp, we can actually regrow hair and Justin what’s so cool is you know my product um you know without being a show or sounding like a shill. If you are suffering from a genetic predisposition which is you know androgenic alopecia or androgenic alloresia, there’s other ones you can actually minimize that by doing again the things that you need to remove inflammation from the scalp and increase what you would call angiogenesis to the scalp which is again increasing red blood cells and at some point, you know, as we get deeper into this you know, I’m happy to give people a lot of different things you can do, I have like a really cool meme that I can send you and you can post you know after the fact of like my and my business partner obviously nick with our company but like our inner circle hacks of what you can do to massively increase hair loss as your hair regrowth as you age.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent and I saw this article, I had it up here on the screen as we were kind of chatting. This was a phenomenal article I saw earlier in the year because it talked about DHT, we kind of know DHT is this like testosterone metabolite and so, as you get older, essentially you have these hairs that are naturally prone to be DHT sensitive and we know there’s different medications are out there to block that so just kind of for the average person you have your finasteride medications, you could do oral or topical thing that kind of block that which can be helpful for some people but then you kind of and I always intuitively knew there was an inflammation component because I’ve worked that many patients over the last decade where we improved their diet, we got their gut working better, we modulated cortisol, we did things to help kind of the immune response, glutathione, NAC, things to help with the oxidative stress around the scalp and I saw hair improvements significantly so I know there had to be something more than just DHT in and of itself and then you kind of posted a couple of articles talking about that so just to kind of you know we have like one major track in conventional medicine which is like you finasterides which are you’re like 5-alpha-reductase inhibitors, then you have like Rogaine minoxidil which are your vasodilators. Those are your two major paths but then you kind of come in so just kind of talk about how you took the two major paths and how you kind of had this little side detour that you find to be better.
Jay Campbell: Man, I’m so glad to talk to you today man because I haven’t had a chance to go this deep but this is you know really what we have been attempting to expound and obviously we did a pretty good job myself Nick and Ben and we did Ben’s podcast and you know again, the article was three parts and Ben did a lot of stuff into this but to your questions. Let’s go really big pictures. So, the conventional medicine route was always about inhibiting DHT. But anyone who’s ever inhibited DHT whether it was from the script which is you’ve already mentioned Propecia finasteride or dutasteride, yep, you know topically they realized that those, you know, medications actually attached to the follicular root in the scalp somewhat I always say someone and again you know read the articles that we’ve written if you want to understand the true science but they will prevent further miniaturization but here’s the big gotcha, the big gotcha is that 90% of people who use any of those products to again further miniature or reduce miniaturization. If you stop, all the hair falls out, because they have attached to those follicles in the scalp blocking that conversion so once you stop the you know the actual taking of again the drug or the vasodilator because this also applies to minoxidil and Rogaine, uh, the hair falls out and again anyone who’s used these things has experienced this the other big issue is that there’s a very large percentage. There’s really no number, uh, of men and women sadly because don’t report this like men do but who suffer all sorts of dysfunction. Sexual dysfunction, brain dysfunction, uh, bone mineral density dysfunction from these drugs and again as you know because you’ve read them and you just brought them up but you know we wrote an article about DHT inhibition causing cellular dysfunction over time and the problem and again, I don’t want to worry people and this is a big rabbit hole but again you know happy to point people and you will obviously and you’re doing it now to the articles on our site that provides the science on this but over time DHT, inhibiting DHT, which is again a natural biological pathway causes cellular damage and this can be seen if you do genetic testing, if you do methylated genetic testing, if you go to trudiagnostic.com it’s T-R-U , you know it’s Ryan Smith’s company or if you use the Glycan age test. Any of these people now that are doing this kind of DNA at the cellular level tests can see people who have been using DHT inhibitors and by the way this also extends into testosterone optimization. If you’re using an AI an aromatase inhibitor medication because again, you’re blocking from an x. Yes. Exactly. You’re blocking very powerful and profound biological pathways that should never be inhibited. Now, remember most of DHT medications and AI medications were originally created for people that we’re suffering from cancer, right? And then these medications were extrapolated and one of my good friends in medicine always like says extrapolation does not correlate to causation, right, you know, they’re putting them over into these other fields like hair replacement or hair restoration and of course suppressing estrogen and people using therapeutic hormones, uh, it was bad thing all together and now we have you know five seven 10 15 years of observation and we can see the harm that it’s causing but Justin, a lot of people will come out, you know, who and they’ll listen to this podcast and they’ll say but J I’ve been using a DHT inhibitor, it’s stopped my hair loss, I get my blood work done twice a year, I have absolutely no issues right. Like, I’m low body fat. I’m low inflammation, I take care of myself, I have clean diet and I will say that’s absolutely true but what do your telomeres look like. And so, this is a whole big thing and I would say that like over the next three to five years as more and more people start doing these DNA based tests and they can really look at the end caps and they can see what these DHT inhibitors and AI drugs or medications are doing. It’s gonna be a major reveal and I will just one throw one other thing I there just to like drop the hammer. The majority of men who have died in the last three years, uh, you know pro-body-builders physique athletes, performance athletes, competitors, even strong men of quote unquote heart attacks or sudden death because again, they’re using God knows, what you know in the kitchen sink, those guys actually died of what are called micro fissures in their vascular networks from using AIs. The AI’s literally are causing fissures.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh wow! That’s the reason why, huh? Yeah, I know, they’re doing a whole bunch of medications.
Jay Campbell: I have. I’m the only guy that’s brave enough to come out and say this. And again, there’s nobody doing autopsies on these people and I’m not gonna mention names. I am very connected to people who worked with these guys or work with these guys, previous to them dying and we know what they’re using and
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You’re not hearing this from the heart, the heart issues, the heart hypertrophy due to the steroids. Is there any component in that too?
Jay Campbell: Absolutely. Dude, there isn’t a single bit of research in the entire world that shows that testosterone causes anything.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I imagine these guys probably aren’t just on bioidenticals, they’re probably.
Jay Campbell: Exactly, kind of, I mean. Exactly, so we’re talking about that’s exactly right. So, we’re talking about when you’re taking super physiologic levels of all sorts of things, right? And all sorts of things are going wrong and all sorts of harm is being caused but what we definitely do know is it’s the Ais that are causing the blockage in the vascular network and look let me explain the science behind this because this needs to get out there more. You never inhibit estrogen, ever. Most doctors out there today still do not understand that there’s no such thing as estrogen or high estrogen symptoms or side effects. These side effects that are being caused are due to inflammation. People have too much visceral body fat. They’re on, you know, therapeutic hormones. Doesn’t matter whether it’s a man or woman and the exogenous hormones are causing an inflammatory response. Their inflammasomes being released from the visceral fat, normally that causes the quote unquote side effects of like you know water retention or you know irritability or mood disablement. All these people literally extrapolate that to high estrogen symptoms it’s completely a falsehood. All the science and evidence shows that you need healthy levels of estrogen to confer protection to biological systems so whenever you use testosterone whether you’re a man or woman you should never block estrogen, you know, again, through aromatization because that is what is going to convert protection to the vascular network to the brain to bone mineral I mean all of these things need estrogen and I dude, I go on Instagram yesterday. And I’m looking at, I won’t name names because they’ll name names but very very well-respected people with massive audiences way bigger than me who do not understand this still who are still recommending to their patients about preventing or miniaturizing or blocking aromatization. I know, we rabbit whole from hair loos but all of this stuff relates yeah and I’ll take it back very simplistically, you cannot block a God-created or biologically-created system in the body and not think that you’re gonna have if you’re, basically, you’re robbing Peter to pay Paul, right? They’re going to have downstream issues and effects that are going to show up within time, you know my business partner Nick love to call you know he’s a dork. Third order effects, right? But, like, the reality is you’re going to see nasty things happen when you do this and unfortunately medicine, conventional, not you and me, conventional loves to use these drugs to screw around with the biological cascade that was again created, you know in these perfect bodies that we have, not realizing that doing that is going to have long-term damage.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay. So, what about using natural compounds because you’re talking about like you know the Aromatase inhibitors, right? You’re talking about some of the pharmaceuticals but just by keeping inflammation down by avoiding processed grains and excess omega-6 oils. That may also have an improvement on things just selenium and zinc and nutrients may have some mild DHT, estrogen metabolizing effects. Eating cruciferous vegetables and some of the sulfur-rich compounds may help with some of that too. So, we kind of draw a line between natural things that may have a more modulating effect versus drugs that may kidn of be in discretionary and kind of go too over the top too high or low on that.
Jay Campbell: So, yeah. So, it’s a great question, so like I get this question a lot all the time, you know, people will ask me well what about natural stuff you know, like doctor, I got one, a question like to days ago Dr. Berg recommends, you know natural, you know using things to naturally suppress estrogen. Okay, so again, let’s go back. We do not want to suppress estrogen. What we do want and you already said it is, we want less inflammation. How we suppress inflammation is not being fat and obviously one of the talking points that we have on this call is what is the greatest strategy for a human being to minimize disease as they age. The greatest strategy and by the way, if you ask a hundred doctors that question one will get it right, the greatest strategy to minimize disease as we age is building muscle because muscle is the greatest deterrent to the disease of aging because muscle is the most metabolically active tissue and muscle does not allow for inflammation. Now, I’m not talking about becoming a huge body builder but I’m talking about being functionally lean as we age when you build muscle you have less fat, the more muscle you have, the less chance you have, the disease, again the less inflammation, the more bone mineral density you have, the more functional strength you have on and on it goes so I mean like the reality is all those things you said are great adjuvants you know cruciferous vegetables, uh, you know minimizing seed oil consumption, living insulin control, I love talking about this kind of stuff but at the end of the day, you have to build muscle and you know, I’m not one of those guys that says oh, you shouldn’t do cardio and you only build muscle, you have to have a holistic viewpoint. You know, if you’re a man, I mean I just got into this yesterday with a very, very big influencer, I won’t name her name, she’s very, very well, now we talk all the time and she’s like not doing cardio and she’s almost 50 and I’m like what, you know, I’m starting to get belly fat, I won’t do cardio, well then that belly fat’s gonna keep coming like there’s no amount of growth hormone or testosterone or peptides or anything that you’re gonna take, if you don’t increase movement patterning, right? So, I mean, at the end of the day, all those things are amazing but build muscle, be functionally strong, you know, we can talk mindfulness and yoga and meditation and doing all that stuff and being pliable but you got to build muscle because the more sick you get it’s not okay.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Let me kind of go rapid fire, you hit a bunch of avenues I want to go down, so from a movement, um, muscle building standpoint are we just talking about functional movements, push pull band, squat kind of lunge type of patterns. Anything more like super slow, certain periodization bands, cables, I mean, kind of what does your routine look like, just you know, what would be that they, if you look at your routine kind of from a thousand-yard view, what would be the key core things you’d want to distill to other people that they can apply to theirs?
Jay Campbell: Dude, man, I love your questions dude. You’re the best. You’re the best interviewer I’ve been on in a long time. Very, very knowledgeable man, so great credit to you. Um, that’s a very open-ended question, and I would say that, the answer is I’ll definitely give my, you know, regimen, my wife and its regiment and I’m 51 you know and I look literally a lot better than most people look at 20. Okay, and obviously grow. Everything but the kitchen sink at my body, you know, I use therapeutic testosterone, I use therapeutic growth hormone, uh, when I’m not using therapeutic growth hormone, I use peptides, uh, I take all sorts of insulin suppressing medications and supplements. I use metformin, I use you know, dihydro berberine. I mean, like I said man, I throw the kitchen sink in my body but I’m also very you know scientifically efficient, I use very precise dosages, I go by the research and of course the research for me is empirical, right? I got 30 years of doing this. I mean, I’ve been treating my body like a raprap for 30 years but to answer your question specifically because it is important, it’s an amazing question is, it’s gonna be relevant to the person’s age. A 25-year-old man or woman can train much more intensely and recover much better than a guy at 51 can, right? No matter, how well I take care of myself and how injury-proofed I am and all the shit that I take to recover and how good my sleep is, I still do not have the synovial fluid in my joint capsules as that 25-year-old does, right, so I have to modulate the intensity and the recovery from that age to a 50-year-old but you know to answer your question I think the answer is yes. You know, I would say all of the above, you know, weight training obvious bone bearing resistance training, you know, a lot of people that don’t have access to a gym with all the bullshit that’s happened in the last two and a half years then yeah, you got to do push-pull, push-ups, you know free standing squats, uh, you know if you have a pull-up bar hopefully if you have bands, I mean again, everything is good. My personal pet belief is it’s really not a belief it’s more of a knowing because I’ve been doing it for so long is, as you age rep range is more important that it when you’re in your 20s in your, let’s say like your early 30s because it’s all about taking the muscle to positive muscle failure, right, not eccentric, not negative but to a place where literally, your fibers cannot do another rep so like I have a formulation of training again I’ve created myself and I call it positive muscle fiber training. It’s PMF training. It’s a system that I sell it’s a video and I’m not here to sell my course or anything like that but I don’t even know about that wow, yeah, I mean I’ll do, I’ll send it to you after this and you can go through it. It’s pretty epic. I got a lot of people on it but and honestly I’m stepping on the shoulders of giants because you know I learned from Charles Poliquin, I learned from Jim Brown, you know, I learned from genius guys but the end of the day, the older you are the more you have to push your body’s ligament you know ligaments tendons and muscle fibers to a place where they reach exhaustion pretty quickly and so for me a couple of warm-up sets, two work sets each work set goes to positive muscle failure, again, I’m not doing eccentrics, I don’t have somebody spotting me and then I move, right and I train my body over usually six weeks, uh, you know, periodized, uh, rotations and it’s either full body Monday Wednesday Friday or it’s um kind of a push-pull split. It’s basically a split, you know, chest, back, leg, biceps and then delts, triceps, always finishing with core depending on where I’m at in the year, you know, I always foam roll before and after yeah. Sometimes, I do some pretty static stretching.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: How long is your workout typically?
Jay Campbell: Uh, my wife and I train together and my 14 years old daughter trains with us because she’s like a Mary Lou from Mary Lou Retton and Jim Freeze. So if it’s al three of us probably 50 minutes but today my, she’s actually a cheer camp at woodward academy up in central California so my wife and I trained together this morning and we were like 36 minutes I think.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Nice, nice and in regards to the cardio aspect are you kind of doing more of a tabata interval sprint stuff. There’s a lot og stuff on my twitter feed about people really more into like the zone two type of thing getting your heart rate around 120 for like 30 minutes and just kind of holding a steady state. What’s your thought process on both of those. What do you like?
Jay Campbell: Amazing question, so I’m probably gonna be a little bit different here and you know take it a different direction and you know my background from a research standpoint is low-carb ketogenic dieting 20-plus years ago so I have a lot of experience with energy systems at one time, one time I worked with Lyle Mcdonald, I was kind of his research assistant before he wrote the first book on ketogenic dieting and exercise so you know all the science but at the end of the day a person’s cardio training should be relevant to their diet and the reason I say that is if you’re a faster okay or a very low carbohydrate person and that might be what paleo that could be carnivore keto, you have to use your training, you’re not your lifting but your cardio training should be relevant to your energy demand, right? So, if you’re somebody like me and by way I have a program that I’ve been following since 2010, it’s you know, one of the programs in my book which is called the metabolic blowtorch diet but it’s an every alternate day fasting. So, I fast on the non-lifting days and I eat on my lifting days, right? So, I eat, I train, Monday, Wednesday, Friday, normally and those are the days I eat and then Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday, Sunday, I fast and my fastening intervals are anywhere from 18 sometimes just full 24 hours, wake up early the next day and you know glycogen load before I train and that’s how I do it but in truth your cardio or the people watching this shows cardio should again be relevant to the energy that they have while they’re doing the cardio so that zone one, zone two is it’s great advice, I mean I normally I’m doing my cardio, fasted I’m normally in steady state and my heart rate is somewhere between 150 and 135, okay? Now, if I wanted to do a Fartlek, Tabata interval session, I would do it on my lifting day because I have glycogen and I would do 30, yeah, it depends 25 to 35 minutes of some form of an interval right and I would do that because I know that I have glycogen to fuel and not I’m in a place where I have, you know glycolytic deprivation and I could burn my muscles so here’s the big mistake, the big mistake that people make is they’re fasting and they do intervals and you don’t want to do that especially if you just fasted for 16 hours because your body is very prone tapping, uh, you know through what is it the enzyme muscle creatine kinase, yeah, muscle protein and any more catabolism. Yeah, exactly as soon as you do that, you’re now breaking down muscle tissue and fueling your body’s energy demand from the protein and so I always tell people like you just got to be cognizant where you are from an energy system so you know again if you’re a hardcore carnivore keto person then you should never be beyond zone two it should be always be steady state moderate intensity and let’s not forget depending on your age, low impact, do you know how many people who are 40, who like you know, take up crossfitting and go right into this like high impact ballistic shit and destroy themselves, I always used to I always used to make jokes I was like man if I was an Orthopade, I would put all my centers next to crossfit gyms.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, I mean for my whole cardio approach, like doing rowing because just because most cardio things, you’re in flexion state.
Jay Campbell: Rowing’s amazing.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s the only thing that opens you up and puts you in that extension.
Jay Campbell: Rowing and swimming. Same thing. If you can do broad smoke swimming but I mean how many people have a lot, have access to a lap pool but dude, rowing is amazing. If you have one of those in your house, that’s the best form of cardio.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And so, you recommend most people. Do you like it empty stomach doing your cardio, keep it more zoned too for most.
Jay Campbell: Yes. Yeah. So, like I mean again, it depends because there’s days when I train, I mean again, um, everything is relevant to what that person’s goal is right so like if you’re a 45-year-old person. Yeah. Exactly like you don’t give a shit about being ripped or you’re not in a you know a triathlete or some sort of like crazy weekend competition. It’s how do I look better with my shirt off, you know, how do I have good self-confidence in my job, you know, and then ultimately like as I age like can I bend over and I pick up my grandkids or my children’s kids you know what I’m saying without suffering without pulling something in my spine, um, you know, my wife and I are like really into looking good like we enjoy traveling, you know to exotic vacations so there’s like, you know, usually like three months out of the year sometimes four, we want to look amazing in a bathing suit, you know, I mean, to be an empty nester you know, so it’s like I want to like travel the world with my shirt off and be like, yeah. I feel good about the way I look, right? It’s always about as you know Doc, functional strength as we age and the self confidence to that comes from being lean. I mean you know you look better in cloths you know, you don’t have to worry about like throwing your cloths away, you know, because you’re going down and up and all that stuff so again, inflammation will stay ay bay by maintaining strength, maintaining leanness and obviously you know preparing, you know, again, depending on your diet, the form of training.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it. I think it was Charles Paulken, that said that most people’s health goals just revolve around wanting to look good naked right? That’s pretty
Jay Campbell: much honestly, that’s probably the best way you could say it and you know there’s another thing though to do that too is like
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: At a functional aspect
Jay Campbell: Look for the opposite, most people don’t even give a shit not your watchers or mine but most people don’t give a shit about their health until they don’t have their health.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. That’s true.
Jay Campbell: And then they throw everything, you know, including the kitchen sink at it and it’s like dude, you took 35, 45 years to get to this poor level. You think it’s gonna be fixed in a six week or nine-week program or boot camp. No.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right. Right. So, I want to crystallize. It so your workout, you’re working out for 30 to 45 minutes. What are you picking six to eight movement patterns your foam rollies are working on soft tissue quality and pliability, you know probably during the workout and so is that kind of you want to add a little more detail to that. Does that ring a bell.
Jay Campbell: Absolutely. Let me add more detail I mean I just came from the chiropractor before I got on your show, okay so I mean I see my chiropractor at least once a week. You know my wife and I usually go together, he’s pretty advanced dude, uh, once a month I see my deep tissue lady who does cranial sacral and I did a five and a half hour session on Saturday and you know she clears out all the negative juju. Yeah and then I also have a body worker that I see every other week on Tuesdays which I will be seeing him tomorrow and you know he does the cupping and you know ART and you know just literally just realigning me and stuff so I mean we’re very hardcore, I would say you now most, more than most people and really like making sure that we maintain these physical avatar bodies as we age and as you know dude, it gets it doesn’t get easier, that’s all you can say.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I can imagine so your cardio routine, what does that look like now, give me that
Jay Campbell: That’s another great question, um, so I’m a big biker, I have, I don’t have a Peloton, I have a really nice life cycle. It’s literally, right over to the right of me in my studio. We also have in my house, we have the newest, the latest and greatest, uh, what is it, um, shit, the treadmill that goes up to 40-degree incline. I can’t even think of what it’s called. It’s insane. Like, if you, so we’re going to Peru at the end of July, I’m filming a television series there and it’s my second trip to Peru but I mean, you know, there’s 18-19,000 feet, uh peeks in Peru you know mount humane day is like 19,500 feet. So, you know, I wanna be ready and I mean I’m pretty good I you know, cardiovascular but I’m like, no, I’m gonna buy this. It’s a NordicTrack. I couldn’t think of this, the x32i.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’ve seen that.
Jay Campbell: The x32i, it’s like the, you know, the bee’s knees and we just got it like two months ago and it’s amazing, dude. Like, I mean, it’s the most amazing treadmill I’ve ever got, I mean there you have to be an absolute freak to walk for 30minutes at 40-degree incline at like 2.5 miles an hour. I mean, it’ll burn. I’m not exaggerating. It’ll burn 1500 calories in 30 minutes, that’s how insane. But it’s uh, it’s you know, we got it for that purpose but I normally do bike because I like to breed on my bike, okay, and my masseuse, my cranial sacral lady told me on Saturday, she’s like dude you got over patterning in your right, you know, lower quadrant, uh, you know, inside where your, uh, you know, your connective tissue is, uh, your psoas and all this stuff, you just got over patterning, you’ve been biking for so long and doing it so consistently I want you to move to the treadmill and she’s like don’t walk fast, you know, she’s like walk at a wide pace, so I mean I moved to that to do that but normally I’m a biker man, I mean, I should get an ergometer, you know, when you said that you’re like here’s another guy telling me that’s I got to get that in my house but uh, my wife is a treadmill walker on an incline and I’m mostly a bike guy but I mean again, you know, back to the heart rate stuff, I usually ride, at 15 intensity on my life cycle and my heart rate goes from you know, anywhere from at the highest like 142.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: How are you measuring your heart rate? Do you have a wearable?
Jay Campbell: I do have, uh, the amazon, uh, whatever the 60 little amazon thing is because that thing actually works with that new treadmill too. So, I got that like two months ago but besides that I mean my life cycle is you know just a hand meter, but it’s pretty accurate, you know, I’ve been using it for like six years now, I need to get a new bike by the way too because it’s just worn down but, uh
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, you’re lifting three to four times a week, three to four times a week you’re lifting, cardio three to four as well?
Jay Campbell: So, lifting three times, cardio is really just dependent on how much time I have in the day and how lean I want to be like, if I want to be absolutely shredded, I will probably do a second session of cardio on Tuesdays and Thursdays but again it’s just depending on whether I’m at if I’m home if I have access to cardio equipment if I’m on the road and I’m traveling, I’ll never do two sessions usually because you just don’t have access
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay. Alright. I gotta, I gotta bunch of questions. I’m gonna go rapid fire at you so I’m really interested, I know you’ve done a lot of stuff on testosterone bioidentical supplementation. I want to know how you dose it, I see lots of patients that come into me that are using creams that are using extended release formulas typically if I recommend testosterone supplementation. I’m trying to keep my patients in that top 25% of the reference range. I’ve seen too many patients come way outside of the reference range then you get this receptor site down regulation, I like to keep the injections you know between two or four days, I feel like you can keep the dose more steady on that versus doing every seven days or ten days, I feel like you get this big kind of like you know have the steady levels.
Jay Campbell: You got it right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I wanna know your, you know, what’s your best dosing gels, injectables frequency? Where do you like people to be in the reference range? Go ahead.
Jay Campbell: Okay. All great questions. Let’s start off with what you can’t do. Okay, and again, this is sad because there’s still so many endocrinologists and urologists that have no idea what they’re doing, giving patients this but you cannot give a bolus of testosterone at 7 or 10 or even 14-day interval and expect it to work because as you know Justin and they don’t and they should know because they went to school for this. The way the half life works of these medications, you cannot put it into somebody’s system, shut down their endogenous, again, with this exogenous supply and then understanding the bio or the half cycle life of that bioidentical hormone thinking that you’re gonna have any kind of efficacy after six days, I mean you’re not. I mean in fact you’re gonna have to crash and you’re gonna have all sorts of again you know perturbations of estrogen going sideways, testosterone crashing, I mean, there’s, it’s just a horrible situation, so two delivery systems that work. What you said is accurate. Now, what we want to understand and again for the people watching the show are not familiar with my work, I mean, this is like you know, my quote-unquote claim to fame and like
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’ll put links below for everything so people can see
Jay Campbell: Yeah. So, from the internet standpoint like you know I wrote a book in 2015 called the definitive TRT manual, it became the number one selling book of all time on testosterone, four years later, I wrote a book called the testosterone optimization therapy bible and it is the number one selling book of all time on testosterone so I work with the top docs, the top researchers, the top endos, the top epidemiologists, like all the people that really are the who’s who in this industry is the people that I work with in this so just to give you guys that clarification and that justification but at the end of the day what we wanna do when we use therapeutic hormones and this goes for by the way women or men is we want to mimic the body’s endogenous postal tool release as closely as we can. Now, you’re going to do that based on using a delivery system that is not spasmodic, right. It’s not a giant bolus, there’s a lot of testosterone delivery systems out there that are absolutely worthless. The only value that they provide is lining the pocket of the doctor who gives it to the patient, okay. I don’t have to mention some of those but at the end of the day you know I have doctors that will argue with me and they’ll be like, that may be true J but some testosterone is better than not been better than none and I can’t dispute that but I definitely argue that you know some delivery systems cause way more side effects than others and should be avoided but back to what you were saying, the best way to imitate or mimic the body’s natural pulsatile and usually diurnal release of testosterone is through every other day or daily uh, delivery systems so if it’s injections, uh, you know, it would be really nice if you were injecting with an insulin needle early in the morning with a bolus of like 25 to 35 milligrams or 15 to 20 milligrams again if you’re going daily and if you’re every other day then you’re looking at again depending on that person, uh, you know I’m mostly speaking about men for right now but you know somewhere between 40 and 60 milligrams every other day.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay. What place in the reference range do you like people to be, I mean, it’s are you gonna recommend testosterone if they’re in the bottom 25% and then is there a goal that you want to fall within the range?
Jay Campbell: Okay. So, this is you know very unique stuff here. I’m not a physician. Okay, right? So, I’m not prescribing to men and I’m not also you know governed by state medical licensing.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You’re speaking from your personal experience and people reporting back to you, where they feel about.
Jay Campbell: Well, look, I understand your business very well okay. I’ve not been in the business but I could easily be in the business if I choose to be in business. I’m not in the business but I also with obviously literally hundreds of doctors, I understand this I’ve sat there and listened to the top teachers in the world and you know what happens to guys that are attempting to prescribe and you know again what can happen negatively if you know people are at one low end of the range and they prescribe and then they get audited and blah blah blah so this is what we know again from like a general universal conduct, the only thing that matters when you’re optimizing two people any person’s hormones males or females is if they’re asymptomatic and they feel good. Now, levels are again just a measurement, a qualifier so to speak of you know again various lab corp companies, right? So, what we have to understand Justin and this is big picture for people watching this is that whoever is behind the lab companies have been suppressing the standard mean deviations, right? So, the top and the low are pushing and being compressed and I think you know this. Five years ago, the high end of the range for both companies was between 1240 and 1400s and now between lab corp and quest and you know fact check me if you guys have to on this because they’re lowering them all the time now,
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 800 to 1000 typically
Jay Campbell: Dude, it’s insane. It’s so much lower and if you ask people in the endocrine society or whatever the urology you know uh deal is, they’ll say oh well it’s not conspiracy theory J, it’s fat people are getting fatter and we’re just deviating for the compression of like lower testosterone due to metabolic disorder and dysregulation and blah blah blah but again if you ask the smart people who go to the endocrine society meetings every year and I know somebody who just went and you asked the smart people there like Abraham Morgan Tower who I love and has done more testosterone optimization than anyone he’ll tell you that is doesn’t make sense so in my opinion if you know we want to go full blown put tin foil hats on conspiratorial, they are making men fatter softer, weaker, I mean this is where, this is going, right, so it’s like to answer your question in a long convoluted way I would personally like to see men that have free testosterone levels and again depending on the measuring criteria of somewhere between 35 and 50, okay? and they feel good like they’re energetic, they have dopamine signaling, you know, increased cognition, there’s no brain fog, they’re obviously really goof sexually and have you know, erection, thick you know, firmer erections, morning wood, all that stuff that’s where you want to be from a free standard uh measurement you know is there a total number that’s great? No, but if you talk to the best docs, they’re going to tell you that like depending on when you test them, you know, at the peak or the nadir, you know, you want to see them somewhere between a thousand and 1500 now that’s not to say that somebody who’s at 2000 for you know an hour who’s now gonna function probably between 750 and a thousand during the week is bad. So, it really just comes down to like are they not having symptoms and do they feel good and that’s a shitty answer for you because like you know you want to like be like, okay well when they get tested I want them to be here or here or here but it’s kind of hard to say that because ultimately it depends on when you test them what the delivery system is now let me just also answer that there’s two forms of delivery system that are best okay. Now, I know there’s now oral products on the market and we can go deep down that rabbit hole if you want and talk about that in a second, I feel that they do have promise but they’re not there yet but the other one is trans-scrotal, right? So, a transdermal obviously is on the skin but what we now know scientifically is that the membrane of the base of the scrotum is eight times more permeable than any other skin location so if you’re gonna prescribe transdermal for a man and by the way this goes for women too trans labia right so right in the area of the clitoris and the vaginal lips is where you want to put testosterone cream and obviously with women that’s a little bit more complex you know you might have progesterone cream in there with them too whatever it’s a hold of the thing but at the end of the day the places where they can get the best absorption for the trans nerves is the best and so uh I’ve now been on testosterone therapeutic testosterone for almost 22 years, I was on injectable for close to 17 and a half and since then I’ve been on trans-scrotal and Justin I will never go back to injectable for a couple of reasons. Well, I travel the world a lot and I don’t like carrying needles in my hygiene bag because you never know when you’re going to run into some asshole at international airport who says what the hell is this, right? But then the other person reason is it’s just a lot easier to carry a transdermal cream you know in your hygiene bag as you travel around the word and obviously on the side of it you know it has your script and your doctor’s information and the codes and stuff like that versus like you know you’re going through a what you call it you know a screen point and they pull it out they see needles and they’re like ah I mean you know you’ve heard of stories of like you know just alone and all these guys getting pulled over but at the end of the day that’s why I changed you know there is some biological reasons uh cream on the scrotum increases DHT uh a little bit higher from a standpoint and obviously as you know DHT is the primary anabolic cascade so men will have better uh erections uh you know and but as far as anything else it’s equal, you’re not gonna have better energy or better muscle growth or better stamina or cognition or any of those things. They’re equal. But those are the only two delivery systems in my opinion that are worth the shit uh you know I know that the number one delivery system is pellets and I’ve done videos about pellets. I’ve brought on the best experts in the world about pellets this is what I’ll say about pellets because people need to hear this. This is how you know pellets are worthless delivery system and I know I’m gonna offend people. There has never been a single scientific study on testosterone ever done using pellets. Now, if you knew that why in the hell would you ever consider using pellets for therapy and look I know there are thousands of people in north America right now using pellets especially women and they get great results and the doctors that use them and prescribe them and it might be you if you prescribe them you know, they’ll say hey dude some of these people are in the military and they’re in active duty and they’re in the field and they don’t have an option, they can’t inject you know, they’re being scrutinized they’re you know blah blah they can only get this like every six or eight weeks I get it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right. That makes sense.
Jay Campbell: That’s, most cases that’s cool but pellets are bad news from a delivery system because of the way they cleave as an ester in people’s body. Everybody’s biochemically unique Justin. We’re all end of one and a lot of people are hyper excretors and you can put in a pellet that’s supposed to be an eight week life cycle and they have four weeks
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And they’re the last half I always see them just drop out a ton.
Jay Campbell: It’s horrible, dude.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Frequently.
Jay Campbell: It’s horrible. But again, I’m not against it if it’s the only most efficacious path and it’s that person’s only option because again some is better than none.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay. Now, when do you recommend doing testosterone because my philosophy naturally is all right someone comes in they’re overweight, they’re tired, they’re fatigue, my first thing is get the inflammation down, let’s improve your nutrient density, get your cortisol and insulin resistance in check. Let’s get you moving some cardio some resistance training. Let’s get everything fixed metabolically and then just kind of see where you fit and if you continue to improve excellent we can use some herbs maybe some Tribulus, different you know horny goat weed Epimedium, there’s different herbs you can use kind of when do you transition from herbal diets to going a hormone route and then do you ever use like things like hCG in between. How does that progression look for you?
Jay Campbell: All amazing questions, uh, these are not easy answers and obviously I’m injecting a lot of my opinion on this, um, I’ve done a lot of research on herbs, testosterone boosters. Well, let me just first talk about testosterone boosters and by the way for the people that are new to me that watch this, this is live right? And then you gotta be on your youtube channel, okay, so the people that are new to me are watching this right now and I’m gonna be a chill but I highly recommend you go to my youtube channel and you watch the video that was part one last week with Dr. Keith Nichols and part two today in about two and a half hours and they are I’m telling you guys right now this is the state of the science on hormonal optimization for not just men but for women too today’s video is about 90 mins last week’s was like 48 minutes but I broke up the whole conversation 82 because I was like I want people to digest this we talk about prostate cancer we talk about vascular illness, I mean it is the state of the science, Keith is going to be, Dr. Keith Nichols, who’s interviewed with me, he’s going to probably at some point be the guy that replaces Dr. Neil Roger who’s the number one trainer on the planet for testosterone optimization or just hormone optimization in general and it’s just brilliant. I mean anyone can learn what he is talking about in there but you know to those questions there isn’t a single testosterone boosting herb or supplement on the planet that’s proven to work now as you know because we’re going to talk about consciousness at some point, the placebo effect is very real if a human being takes something and puts their energy and their intention into it that it’s going to work, they probably will create that reality, it’s absolutely possible but from a scientific standpoint if you analyze all of these different supplements and these again Tongkat Ali and Horny goat weed and mocha these things, they don’t do jack shit. Okay? So, are the gonna work if the person believes in them, yes. But if that person that you’re working with and you said all the things decides that they want to stop being fat and stop being inflamed and exercise and eat better and control for insulin that’s gonna do just as much as any of those other things. Now, I’m not saying that adding those things in as you know additional adjuncts won’t help but I would say that you know before you go and we’ll get there a second but before you go the therapeutic adjuvant route like you just said do what you just said. Do what you just said, lower inflammation, lower belly fat, get them exercising blah blah blah but here’s where you know the really smart people in this industry will come in and say that’s great J. And Justin, but how are you gonna get a 50-year-old guy who’s got 30 pounds or 20 to 30 pounds of belly fat and a 135 total testosterone level with no free testosterone. How are you gonna get them the energy to do any of that shit without concomitantly optimizing their testosterone? So, for those people that I’m like well you know what dude like you’re probably gonna have to put them on a mild dose hoping and again this is where you as a physician really has to have discernment to decide whether this person’s committed because like if I’m you and again I’m not you but if I’m you, I’m not putting a fat person who comes in my office who’s a lazy pile of no way on testosterone because it’s not gonna do shitboard. If anything it’s gonna cause inflammation and again look man I want to say this because I’ve never had a chance to say this and someone so educated is you show uh I see a lot of fat guys and when I see fat guys, I mean they got big bellies, right? They got beer drinking bellies and they go on testosterone and it doesn’t work you know quote-unquote and it doesn’t work because they’re inflamed and they’re injecting testosterone into their fat visceral body in their stomach and that out of center adiposity right there and they get supreme inflammatory responses.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s probably aromatizing as well.
Jay Campbell: Well. Okay. It’s aromatizing that’s what you think it’s doing. What’s happening is just okay so let’s go to that because I want to address that so when we inject testosterone and it doesn’t matter the testosterone delivery system. Let’s just say for now when we’re injecting it. We want the estrogen to fall to the level that the testosterone is going to allow it to aromatize so yes we want to aromatize but the aromatization is not bad. The aromatization is providing the benefits. We want healthy levels of estrogen to provide protection to vascular networks to the brain networks to the bone mineral density into the skin. There’s a lot of all these amazing things so the problem is not in the aromatization, the problem is in the visceral fat which is causing inflammation so the inflammatory cascade which is happening for these people that have too much fat is absolutely causing the side effects but 90% of physicians and I’m not saying it’s you. They miss this and they think it’s high estrogen symptoms and side effects. It has nothing to do with high estrogen. It has everything to do with inflammation and the cascade of inflammation and so I’m telling you I’ve seen tons of men who literally quit because they’re like I can’t handle the side effects and their doctors tells them it’s high estrogen side effects. You know, water retention, itchy nipples, I could go on, no, it’s inflammation that you have systemically that the testosterone is adding to because the testosterone is an exogenous chemical that the body is like saying oh great another one. Top of the beer and the pizza, and the cheese and all the peanut butter and ice cream that you’re pounding in, I mean that’s causing the inflammation so ultimately it’s tough dude the people in America today because as you know we have what I mean saw a stat two days ago that says that is insane by the way. Seventy percent of men and women over the age of 40 in the united states are obese. 70%!
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s insane!
Jay Campbell: 70% over the age of 40. I don’t want you know people to get confused that but that’s I mean dude we don’t have to worry about like the v or the c I mean that’s diabetes and you know what comes after diabetes I mean right, so I mean at the end of the day man if you’re a fat person and you know this is for you for a physician, if a really fat person comes in man, you got to do a psychological analysis like dude, are you sick and tired of being sick and tired like. Are you truly gonna change like are you gonna fight through this because I’m not giving a really fat person testosterone bro if I don’t think they’re gonna actually do the work because testosterone is just a it’s not a magic bullet as you know, its imagined.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right. 100%. It makes sense. Very good. Yeah. I wouldn’t argue I would just say things like insulin resistance are primarily gonna be driven through inflammation and internal resistance would it’s kind of all connected right. Excess carbohydrates, grains process, it’s all connected.
Jay Campbell: So, you know, what, I’m glad you said that because I screwed up and missed that. So, all, so high estrogen symptoms is insulin resistance. That’s 100% the answer and again most people miss this so if you are again fat and inflamed it’s 98.9% likely that you have severe insulin resistance.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I think that’s great and you mentioned a bunch of things that you were doing for that obviously all the exercise things, you mentioned the berberine right you might think you mentioned metformin as well I imagine you’re probably doing some B12 with that because they know that.
Jay Campbell: Yes, absolutely. Yeah. I take a very, a very, very complex uh I take uh B right from Gyro formulas. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. So, let’s talk about bounce. So, yeah, let’s talk about that so if you’re gonna go on therapeutic hormones, what we now know and this is very cutting edge tip of the spear stuff is you cannot optimize the endocrine system without also optimizing the thyroid, the pancreas and the pituitary. Now, you already know these because you’re a functional medicine freak and you know all these things but the average guy prescribing this shit doesn’t know this especially for women. I mean do you have any idea how many people go on, you know, again, testosterone, progesterone, estrogen, you know depending on age, you know, perimenopausal, post-menopausal whatever and they’re not optimizing the thyroid.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh yeah. Especially on the hair loss side for sure.
Jay Campbell: Dude. It’s crazy. Though how often you see this so you know I like to say this it’s a triune, if you’re gonna go on hormonal optimization and again for me if you’re 45 and you’re in America with this and we haven’t talked about this before, you know we end the show but at the end of the day we are being bombarded bro. I mean you can’t from the blue light from the plastic in the water I mean this is the best water on the planet it’s still in a plastic bottle I mean I could pour it in metal if I wanted to right but it just will work but I mean we have to be so overly proactive in type a to you know intervene if not avoid this horrific biochemical onslaught to us so at the end of the day if you’re going to look to hormonal optimization in my opinion you have to at 40 to 45 again depending on your level of leanness and your inflammation uh I’m saying the way it’s done right is again depending on your woman or man age it’s looking at free testosterone to see if you’re eligible to start you know obviously therapeutic route it’s supplementing with uh desiccated slash porcine thyroid again relative to your you know relative to your metabolic issues and insulin resistance and then of course you have to control for insulin and you know again I obviously I’m the biggest metformin homer in the world I’ve written an article that’s you know cited on the Harvard education review you know it’s ten thousand words I met Mormon but I am a big metformin advocate because of all the things it doesn’t do outside of the great stuff. It does for insulin suppression right it’s can stop tumor formation and increases aqua Mancy I mean it does so many amazing things but at the end of the day if you don’t want to get metformin you’re afraid of metformin you know you’ve read all the bullshit on the internet about metformin then at least use dihydro berberine because again you’ve got to control for insulin and I know there’s new drugs you know there’s what is semaglutide and literally there’s a new one and they’re coming out all the time now all these things that suppress blood glucose and that’s cool but you know metformin is a plant and dihydro berberine is a supplement so you know I’m all about natural adjuvants but you know between desiccated uh you know therapeutic testosterone maybe some progesterone maybe a little of estrogen depending on your if you’re a woman or a man you know in your age uh and then uh suppressing and controlling for insulin I mean that’s the holy triune for me that’s the three long you know deal you if you do one or two without the other you’re eventually going to throw the balance of the other one off.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: No. That makes sense, you said metformin is natural yes from the French lilac flower so for sure a lot of good natural things there I love it. I just want to pivot here one sec before we kind of wrap things up. I want you to kind of five a little bit into the genesis of your hair formulation. We talked about well I’m going to kind of go through a couple of the ingredients, I just kind of want to pick your brain and kind of have you walk us through your thinking of why you put those in there so obviously you chose the grapeseed oil, I’ve heard some really good benefits of grape seed oil blends really well um what why is it you chose that fat I’m just curious
Jay Campbell: Yeah I know so great questions and I’m happy to go through and break them all down you know as much for whatever relative time we have left um so the grape seed so so version one of Auxana was MCT oil and again you know we’re just going and learning as we go and MCT oil as a carrier molecule uh pretty much the same but messy thicker constitution so we changed the grapeseed oil and we then put it in a spray bottle, we originally had a dropper but then all those bottles broke and that’s you know the story that we gave on Ben’s podcast last year but at the end of the day uh grapeseed oil is very texturized, it’s a very thin constituent and so as the carrier oil for you know the primary uh active ingredient which is carbon 60 uh it just settles in the hair as a spray and you can massage into the scalp a lot easier uh obviously grapeseed oil is very inert and there is you know some data in the world as you know kind of it’s like an essential fatty acid that it also helps neutral, it helps from a nutrient density standpoint in scalp but we’re really just using it as a carrier oil for carbon 60.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay. Got it. Excellent. I put on screen here just so you can see as well all the ingredients there and then can you talk about a couple other you know more keystone ingredients. How about the peptides you chose?
Jay Campbell: Yeah. Let’s talk about the product. So, the product for everybody is called Auxana Grow uh and by the way you have an affiliate code in that so just make sure you put it in here but um and if you don’t um I think your assistant has it but if not just email me and I’ll give it to you but uh so Auxana Grow is developed or created for people um who do not want to use DHT inhibitor medications, you know, ever or if they’re on it now like how to wean yourself off I just did which is a very long time coming a video on how to wean yourself off of a DHT inhibitor medication while utilizing the natural uh peptide based product of us but so it’s two phase of Zara product, there’s um B and A okay um formula a or formula b. Formula a is the peptide uh copper peptide GHK-Cu, copperpeptide GHK-Cu is what we call the shamwow of peptides. It has so many uh you know modalities to help skin hair um the primary effectiveness of that peptide is that increases angiogenesis which is again uh the simulation or the stimulation of red blood cell formation so when you put it in the scalp and you massage it into the scalp it will increase again angiogenesis so it will bring more red blood flow blood cells to the scalp now as I told you off air I’m not allowed to talk about invasive procedures but if you are a smart person and you ask does microneedling or does uh derma rolling help, well do the math. Right. So,
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right. Got it.
Jay Campbell: What would be, you put serum a on first massage it into your scalp and if you want to then add red light, okay, if you have a red light technology in your home
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: LED laser on top. Yeah.
Jay Campbell: Absolutely, uh, infrared and LED together for three to five minutes and then you would put serum b which is the carbon 60 and just let me explain the serum b so obviously you already talked about um the grapeseed oil extract but the carbon 60 does two things. Carbon 60 is a very powerful antioxidant okay but for our purposes it acts as a molecular sponge and it actually will attempt to pull in the serum a which again is the copper peptide but it also as a molecular sponge or as a superoxidative dismutase it’s going to help remove all of the micro inflammatory agents in your scalp so it’s like a two full process so the way it works just is two sprays of serum a, massage it if you want to do something you know quote-unquote with an INV to you know in uh and you know further stimulate you know absorption do that then hit it with red light then put serum b on you know 30 to 40 seconds and by the way for everyday less is more is not better for our product. Less is more because again this is not about spraying it into your hair especially if you’re a woman and you have a long hair. It’s about getting it into your scalp and then massaging it into your scalp and again scalp massage can be 30 seconds it could be three minutes. It’s totally up to you. Scout massage has proven scientifically without formulation without essential fatty acids or you know minerals you can just massage your scalp every day and you increase red blood cell formation it’s a fact right? So, obviously if you wanna massage your scalp after you apply the products it’s a good thing but uh for people that have aggressive hair loss and by the way you mentioned it earlier and this is important that we talked about this uh autoimmune dysregulation and you know hair loss cause which again this the big c causes hair loss we now know that people have c hair. This product dramatically improves covalent related hair loss I shouldn’t have said cova but I apologize but it definitely it definitely improves it again because this is as you said um you know oxidative related hair loss this is caused by you know whatever the big c is and your putting this into your scalp especially for women because a lot of women are reporting you know c-related hair loss more than men it dramatically will improve that hair loss and again we have you know hundreds of reviews on our website from women that have had that issue and they’re like oh my God it’s a miracle you know there’s a doctor you might know her in uh Pennsylvania um Dr. Amy Horman, she’s like the thyroid fixer. She’s got literally thousands of women you know using Auxana now because it’s the only thing that we found that actually will work against autoimmune disorder or dysregulated hair loss.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting. I imagine also too with the oxidative stress that also is what causes the hair to lose. The melanin and become premature gray.
Jay Campbell: So, you know, so the fact that you say that I wasn’t gonna say that but a lot of women and men report that a natural positive side effect of using it is the darkening of the hair and by the way I mean. That’s me too. Okay. Because like I would be and I’m not using Auxana aggressively as I normally would because it is true even though this is crazy when I say this, you can get to a level with regrowth that you don’t need to keep using it although uh a very big influencer and I just did a podcast about this because he’s like hey man I stopped using it for a year and my hair is coming out again. I’m like well yeah, dude, you’re 47. So, at the end of the day age-related hair loss. There really is nothing that can you know completely stop it. Even a great lifestyle even our product uh you’re still gonna have to deal with that so you know the reality is it’s like you know use it every now and then we are going to be coming out with a maintenance product Justin because again so many people are asking for it you know kind of like a uh you know Jay Paul Mitchell pump the sponsor put in your hair when you get out of the shower at night you know go to bed with it or whatever but uh most people who get results and again this is not gonna work for everybody. Some people have really bad genetic hair loss. Some people are stressed you know some people have really severe trauma and inflammation that they just cant overcome but I’d say somewhere between 68 and 75% of men or women who live a clean healthy lifestyle as our uh as a person that runs our influence or marketing likes to say people who are serious about their health you know are going to get really positive results I mean anybody who knows me can just go back two years uh before this product came into the marketplace and I was nearly bold in fact I actually did the Vantis Procedure on top of my scalp which is like a henna tattoo you know to keep me with like the five o’clock shadow hair and you know people see me now in public yesterday I was out and saw hadn’t seen a guy in three years, he’s like bro do you have a hair transplant. I’m like no dude this is my product. So, you know people can regrow their hair with this product you were asking about is it a maintenance product because you have a lot of hair right now it absolutely is for someone like you, you know you would spray it into your scalp like once or twice a week massage it in and it’s an absolutely amazing. Yeah. It’s a very really strong maintenance product. You can also use it on beards we are gonna eventually have a beard problem really probably oh yeah. You can absolutely use on beard. It’s amazing on beard so the serum a is uh you know a water-based formulation so you can absolutely massage it into your scalp, you’re not gonna have any residue it’s gonna grow it’s gonna feel amazing but the serum b again with the grapeseed oil extract, it is slightly oily. It’s not oily oily but it definitely feels noticeable.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Is it better at night to do it so it can absorb?
Jay Campbell: Uh, I mean it depends on I think you know the length of your hair like if you were you know something not you but somewhat balding man with patches you’re not gonna notice it. But for a longer hair person like you or a woman and you spray a couple of sprays and you don’t get into the scalp and some of it sits in the hair you will definitely probably notice a little bit of residual. A lot of our patients slash patients a lot of our customers report back that they like it as a texturizer and they don’t have to use quote-unquote product to mess their hair or mousse their hair or anything like that so it doesn’t
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Probably get that benefit going from MCT to the grapeseed I imagine right now
Jay Campbell: Now, yeah 100% on that and that’s why Nick actually did that um the other thing I would say is um the beard product is that’s coming will be similar to serum a now because you’ll see it because it’s harder to use unless you got a big long you know beard which I know a lot of guys have that now the neckbeard people. It’s harder to get to the base because remember again it is a health of the skin product. It’s copper peptides so the longer your beard it’s going to be harder but when we have um the product for beards it’ll be more of like a balm roll on versus the spray now which is for the scalp so but you can definitely use it in the beard now we have tons of people have been using it in their beard for over a year and they’re like it’s the best product to have.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, serum a first and then if you do any laser stuff and then serum b will be the last component.
Jay Campbell: Yeah and you know it goes to mention because I know you have a lot of different patients I mean our skin products which is royal blue serum and sky blue cream are the best on earth. In fact again don’t leave the guy who’s the hype man for the company. Go read the reviews you know we have women who are very well to do affluent sophisticated ladies that use Lemur and Rhode island fields and all the high-end shit and they’re like we threw it all in the trash and we buy the bundle of your guys product every month.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, is the hallmark ingredient in the um royal blue is that gonna be at the peptide as well?
Jay Campbell: Same thing, so GHK-Cu is the shamwow of peptides. It’s the number one skin peptide uh and by the way just so you know so people understand this you can absolutely buy GHK-Cu and inject it in your scalp, I mean if you’re insane enough to inject it into the skin on the top of your hair you know which is gonna hurt like shit but it works I mean I have hundreds of people you know who have messaged me about that and saying man I use your product as like the base and then I inject GHK but yeah it regrows your hair better than anything man
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So how long to get results because like the data on like Medoxomil or um uh with Rogaine or Minoxidil or Propecia usually nine to twelve months, right?
Jay Campbell: You see results, okay so let me temper my enthusiasm. It depends on the cellular health of the end user right so someone like me who’s no inflammation you’re gonna see results in literally three to five weeks. Okay, we have women that see results in 10 days. Women that have covid-related hair loss start regrowth their hair back immediately. Now, as far as like when is the dosing of this we’d never tell anyone to dose more than twice a day and personally and again this is my opinion I already said less is more uh it’s more important that you massage it into your scalp than it is spraying it in twice a day because again so many people think that if I spray two sprays and I get great results then three spray it’s gonna be better it’s not that way it doesn’t work that way so when we sell the bottle we say up to a 90-day supply because it is expensive it’s not cheap to manufacture the stuff. It’s really really high-level GHK-Cu product it’s not coming from China. It’s all USA made It’s expensive um we do not tell people to over apply it and I swear to God Justin it doesn’t matter, you know, we live in a super size. More is better economy. They always want to put more in but like if you’re a guy and you’re hair you’re watching this in the rerun or now or whatever and you have hair like mine literally just do it once a day for a month, see what happens. It’s gonna still last you for three months. I mean, my hair, two bottles which is one order is gonna last 90 days but if you have longer hair and you don’t like you know it’s harder I mean let’s be honest it’s harder to massage in the scalp with longer hair so
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Maybe after a shower when your hair is a little bit wet and you make it more visible
Jay Campbell: Yeah. I mean yes and no I mean it really depends right if you’re a woman and you have a mop on your head like my wife’s got long curly hair you know, it’s still not gonna get into the scalp like it would for somebody like me.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, right.
Jay Campbell: It’s just gonna get absorbed by the hair so no matter how good you are massaging into the scalp it’s still gonna be more difficult but that’s why we say up to 90 days because longer hair people are not gonna get so much out of the two bottles as a short hair person is. It’s just not gonna happen.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, and one other question too I’ve noticed this with a couple of patients where they have DHT patterns of hair loss. Yet we, they’re we working on all the core foundational things. Their DHT levels look really good on the blood test, right? Can you have DHT issues at the scalp level but have it not show systemically in the blood.
Jay Campbell: So, I’m gonna blow your mind with this, if you prescribe this is where it really gets crazy about DHT. If you prescribe them a DHT cream they will grow their hair back on their scalp like a wolf man. So, DHT in that article as we said, is secondary and most likely tertiary effector and causal agent of hair loss. It’s not anything to do with dihydrotestosterone and again that’s how we know that in the article that if you write somebody a script for a DHT cream, and they put it all over their scalp, their hair grows back now the only thing to answer that question though that’s important is um you cannot put our product on a bald patch that does not have active hair follicles. You know, that’s and again we’ve been very transparent from the very beginning that where our formulation is now and you know I’ll shed some light on this in a second it won’t work that way. You know, but as my the genius formulator brainiac Nick Andrews, my partner Nasir says he goes oh eventually I’ll be able to grow hair on a cue ball. And that’s where it’s coming so that’s where we’ll eventually go I’d say we’re integrating stem cells and such exactly we’re that exactly right we’re like two phases away so we’re in V2, V3 is coming and V3 will be a one phase liposomal system so it will literally be bottled squirt it into your hand massage it the oil based carbon 60 will be in a nanomolecule you know incased in the water-based formula and it’ll break open when you massage it into the skin and then version three four will have what you just said it’ll have all sorts of other peptides like micro agents and abrasions and it’ll be like uh it’ll essentially be a derma roller uh you know uh what do you call it uh invasive product just by yourself. Yeah, that’s excellent. yeah awesome. It’s coming. The technology’s amazing but you know we’re not there yet.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani:I love it. Well, it was amazing you have a new on today’s podcast. I really appreciate all the significant knowledge. Any last points you want to make before we end the show.
Jay Campbell: No man. I mean I want you to come on my podcast because I know It’ll be just as awesome um you know for anybody that wants to connect with me uh I actually have a link I always do for everyone I go on podcast you can go to Jay C middle initial jaycampbell.com/freebooks and you can download should I think maybe all my books are free now but I know there’s at least three books up there, the testosterone bible is up there for free uh my book on the fasting the blowtorch diet is up there for free and then I have a book on consciousness which the next time you and I talk we’ll go deeper on that. The only other thing, it’ll say is that uh this week, I finally acquired my domain and jaycampbell.com is gonna be my website so I’ve had a guy cyber squad for a long time. Yeah. Yeah. It’s funny story, he asked me for a lot of money and I usually delete him and ignore him and I finally wrote him back and I said you know what man this would be the last time I ever responded to you. I will offer you blank and it was a lot less than what he was asking for and if you don’t say yes off and I’ll you’ll never here from me again and I can assure you no one will ever offer you that amount of money again for jaycampbell.com so you actually said yes so anyway I will be on yeah I will be on jaycampbell.com effectively Thursday of this week the transmission or the domain transfer is starting on Wednesday so it’s totally cool for me because whatever I tell people go to jaycampbell.com they’re like jaycampbell or they do j-a-y and then put campbell I mean it’s just a nightmare man so I’m like really grateful that that’s going away but uh no man I mean I’m so blessed to be here today you got me going a million miles an hour because you asked the most amazing questions I wish people could ask questions at the level you could man because then I can actually like talk about things in greater depth but uh I can’t wait for you to have you to come on my podcast brother I appreciate it man, we’ll work that out I really appreciate it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’m gonna put all the links down below people can get access to my favorite articles some of the products you mentioned as well as the uh the free books to look. Thank you so much Jay for everything. Look forward to connecting with you real soon man.
Jay Campbell: Yeah for sure Justin. Just uh you know let them know it’s you know if they buy it you know if with your affiliate link or uh code, you’ll have a link and a code. It’s 15% off so.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, that’s great. That’s awesome. Well thank you so much man. It was great chatting with you we’ll talk again soon.
Jay Campbell: For sure my brother. Thank you.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Take care. Bye.
The Top 7 Root Causes of Inflammation with Dr. Jockers | Podcast #372
When your body activates your immune system, it sends out inflammatory cells. These cells attack bacteria or heal damaged tissue. If your body sends out inflammatory cells when you are not sick or injured, you may have chronic inflammation or other underlying issues.
Dr. J and Dr. Jockers suggest checking in with your healthcare provider if you experience a problematic injury or health issues. Also, talk with your functional doctor if you have ongoing pain, swelling, stiffness, or other symptoms. They can narrow down the cause and find ways to help you feel better.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani
In this episode, we cover:
0:00 – Introduction
0:36 – Inflammation
4:41 – Acute Inflammation
5:21 – Root Causes
10:30 – Food Recommendations
18:22 – Herbs and Compounds
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey guys! Dr. Justin Marchegiani here. Today, we have an awesome podcast in the queue, the top seven root causes of inflammation. I am here with Dr. David Jockers. Really excited to have him today to chat with David. How are we doing man?
Dr. David Jockers: I’m doing great, Justin. Always great to connect with you. You’re one of the leading minds in functional health, functional medicine and so always great to collaborate and discuss really important topics that are affecting so many people around the world.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh. Excellent man. I’m really excited to chat with you. I mean, you could just pull up one of your blog posts and just have the infographic run the whole entire podcast, right? So, uh, I’m really stoked to chat about it. So, first off out of the gate, I think we should just kind of define inflammation for listeners. How would you define it pretty simply?
Dr. David Jockers: Inflammation is an immune response that’s actually designed to help protect your body. See our body is hardwired to protect us from dying from an infection so you know our ancestors when you know they would go out hunting or let’s say they were in war or something like that, it would be attacked, they would have some sort of a flesh wound and then bacteria could get into that flesh mood into their bloodstream and then spread throughout their body and get into their lungs cause pneumonia, get into their nervous system cause meningitis and kill them. This is really the leading cause of death throughout the history of mankind. Even when people were in war, they really, they tended not to die like it was they were more commonly were dying from an infection they got from a wound than the actual wound itself and so the body is adapted to create this inflammatory response whenever you have an injury, right, and when we think about injuries we think about, okay, a sprained ankle. Let’s say what happens? You end up with a lot of inflammation in that joint and that inflammation is there to help protect against any pathogens getting in. It also helps break down damaged, uh, ligaments, tendons, different structures that are in there that are involved and it’s all part of the healing and remodeling process and so inflammation itself is actually very therapeutic, very healing and it’s designed to keep you alive. The problem is that most people in our society now are dealing with chronic inflammation because their main injury is actually in their gut. It’s in their digestive system. So, the gut when that becomes damaged, the body responds just like if we sprained an ankle or if we got a cut or a burn it creates this inflammatory response. You just don’t see it. So, you don’t actually see it and oftentimes, you don’t even feel it at least not in your gut like a lot of people are not feeling gut pain or even you know just like a stabbing pain even though the gut is damaged but when that happens when the gut becomes damaged, now proteins are seeping into the bloodstream and the body says okay these are abnormal proteins, abnormal bacteria in here. Let’s turn up inflammation throughout the body so that person may experience eczema or some sort of skin inflammation, acne, rashes. Another person may experience joint pain so when they have a leaky gut and their body’s ramping up inflammation, they notice it in their joints. Different joints are hurting. Another person may have a lot of brain fog and fatigue so it can impact us in different ways but in our society today, the inflammation is less so coming from like a physical injury and more so coming from injury in the gut.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. So, kind of my simple kind of metaphor to understand inflammation is you have breakdown and build up catabolic anabolic. Anabolic builds you up. Catabolic breaks you down. Things that are responsible for the breakdown like cortisol, stress hormone, interleukin, cytokines, right? Inflammation, in general, is a good thing. When you go to the exit, when you go to the gym and you lift weights and you do push-ups, you’re creating an inflammatory response in the pec area but then you have this anabolic build up of remodeling proteins so your chest gets stronger and bigger but there’s a healthy balance, right? And so, what we’re talking about here is the inflammation causing a little bit more of a breakdown than you’re able to build up and so over time, whether it’s your brain, connective tissue, joints, cartilage, gut lining, all of this inflammation is causing the body to break down and depending on where that tissue breaks down is where the symptoms occur if it breaks down on the cartilage, arthritis. It breaks down on the blood brain barrier, brain fog, mood issues. If it breaks down the gut, you can have more autoimmune issues, you can have digestive issues, it breaks down, let’s just say in other tissues in the body it could be MS or type 1 diabetes. And so, yeah, so, depending on where the tissue is, is where conventional medicine puts that ICD-10 code but we’re looking deeper under the hood and we’re trying to get to the underlying mechanism. So, first off, we kind of define terms and then now we can go into, you know, other, um, other root causes and root palliatives to kind of support it. Any thoughts?
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah. For sure. And you have, you know, that acute inflammation which again is very therapeutic and healing and then you’ve got chronic inflammation. The big difference there is, the body when it’s in this breakdown, build up cycle. That is normal and healthy but when that never gets turned off and the body is continuously in this sort of healing cycle and it never gets turned off, that’s when we end up causing a lot of long-term problems that are happening in our society.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Inflammation is a good thing because of the remodeling that takes place. It’s the out-of-control chronic-ness and especially when we look deeper at the hormones like cortisol, adrenalines if that’s kind of chronically high or even chronically depleted that’s where we’re gonna start to have big symptoms. What would you say are the next big root causes?
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah. So, you know, at the root a leaky gut is a huge factor with all of this, right? Because, again, if the gut is damaged now we’ve got proteins, we’ve got bacteria, yeast, different things like that seeping into that bloodstream and that tells the body, okay wow we need to signal the alarm because these things, we shouldn’t have abnormal proteins or bacteria going around in our bloodstream that puts at risk for pneumonia, for meningitis for something like that so we’ve gotta turn up and ramp up inflammation and the body kind of has this threshold level for how much abnormal protein and bacteria should be in the bloodstream and once we get over that threshold, it’s like a massive alarm throughout the whole body and then we’re releasing a lot of cortisol, right? We’re releasing a lot of hormones that are associated with fight-or-flight and that suppresses the hormones that have to do with healing and repairing, sexual reproduction, you know, our anabolic, our testosterone, our estrogen, our progesterone because we’re putting all of our energy into fight or flight cortisol and epinephrine and this is why leaky gut can cause issues with sleep for example. A lot of times people have insomnia. It’s really related to leaky gut and damage in their gut. So, that’s always the first thing that I look at and then kind of building off of that is just we have to look at their diet, right? Inflammatory foods are one of the main triggers for leaky gut.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep. 100%. So, of course, like the big, you talked about proteins, right? So, the big proteins I think, you agree, would be your glutinous proteins from grains and it could even be gluten free grains too. Sometimes rice can be a problem, corn can be a problem, especially if there’s GMO residue on that, right? Like, uh, the pesticides that are used, right? Round-up, etc. and then of course high fructose corn syrup can have a lot of different corn residue as well. Casein and a lot of dairies especially if it’s more conventional based dairy with a lot of the hormones and things in there. So, all those things can be a problem and then of course, the more our digestion is optimal. So, if you don’t have enough acid and enzyme and bile salts, we got to break these proteins down into smaller units called peptides and amino acids when these globules are just too big, that can create more food allergies because our bodies have these big proteins, they’re seeing in the bloodstream and that can create more stress so we got to break things down and if that fight-or-flight sympathetic nervous system is going, those enzymes and acids and bile salts may be really um, and at non-optimal levels and we have these bigger food globules in our intestines.
Dr. David Jockers: For sure we weren’t meant to eat on the go, right? So, we really need to be in a more relaxed state. Take a few deep breaths, you know, always pray before we eat, right? That puts us in a state of gratitude, activates that parasympathetic nervous system, the vagus nerve which travels from your brain down into the stomach into the gut and activates the production of those key digestive juices so you can really break down the foods effectively. So, yeah, we definitely need to eat with the you know we have to have mindful eating habits and eat foods that are nutrient dense and not foods that are higher on the inflammatory spectrum like you talked about. So, yeah. That’s huge. And then, we got numbers, you know, the third big thing is keeping our blood sugar stable, right? So, blood sugar stability is super important. So like, if you’re eating breakfast and your breakfast consists of let’s say, you know an apple or a banana or something like that and you’re only eating let’s say fruit even though it’s a healthier you know, more nutrient dense food basically all it is is sugar and so what happens then your blood sugar goes up, insulin comes out, brings that sugar down and now your blood sugar is down and now your body says okay blood sugar’s down and if you’re not metabolically flexible, your body’s not very good at burning fat for fuel that becomes, you know, again, the alarm gets signaled because it says okay wow we don’t have enough sugar to fuel the brain so we’re hypoglycemic now. So now, we need to pump out more cortisol, more epinephrine to get the blood sugar up because cortisol is a glucocorticoid meaning that it activates, uh, blood sugar released from the liver from the muscles into the bloodstream to get the sugar back up but with that we also kind of get this effect on our brain, this high cortisol, epinephrine, where it can cause us to have cravings, it can cause us to have mood swings, irritability, anxiety a lot of different issues like that and that just drives up inflammation in our body as well. For sure we weren’t meant to eat on the go, right? So, we really need to be in a more relaxed state. Take a few deep breaths, you know, always pray before we eat, right? That puts us in a state of gratitude, activates that parasympathetic nervous system, the vagus nerve which travels from your brain down into the stomach into the gut and activates the production of those key digestive juices so you can really break down the foods effectively. So, yeah, we definitely need to eat with the you know we have to have mindful eating habits and eat foods that are nutrient dense and not foods that are higher on the inflammatory spectrum like you talked about. So, yeah. That’s huge. And then, we got numbers, you know, the third big thing is keeping our blood sugar stable, right? So, blood sugar stability is super important. So like, if you’re eating breakfast and your breakfast consists of let’s say, you know an apple or a banana or something like that and you’re only eating let’s say fruit even though it’s a healthier you know, more nutrient dense food basically all it is is sugar and so what happens then your blood sugar goes up, insulin comes out, brings that sugar down and now your blood sugar is down and now your body says okay blood sugar’s down and if you’re not metabolically flexible, your body’s not very good at burning fat for fuel that becomes, you know, again, the alarm gets signaled because it says okay wow we don’t have enough sugar to fuel the brain so we’re hypoglycemic now. So now, we need to pump out more cortisol, more epinephrine to get the blood sugar up because cortisol is a glucocorticoid meaning that it activates, uh, blood sugar released from the liver from the muscles into the bloodstream to get the sugar back up but with that we also kind of get this effect on our brain, this high cortisol, epinephrine, where it can cause us to have cravings, it can cause us to have mood swings, irritability, anxiety a lot of different issues like that and that just drives up inflammation in our body as well.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep. 100%. And also, just having blood sugar go up and down, up and down, if you’re relying on lots of glucose to be your fuel source unless you’re doing lots of exercise and burning it up and you kind of have that ectomorph body type. These are the people that are kind of your basketball players, your marathon runners. These are the ones that when they eat a bunch of carbs, they just have to go right around the block because their glucose just triggers their bodies. They need to move. If you’re not, you know keto adapted, right? Glucose is a dirty fuel in your body, and tends to cause a lot of oxidative stress. This is why diabetics with high blood sugar that kind of oxidation is gonna create problems with the eyes the vasculature, peripheral nerves and so it’s good especially if you’re not super active to be doing a lot more to be more keto adapted and to kind of really switch your fuel source to be more kind of fat based which creates less oxidative stress.
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah. So, you really wanna build your diet around protein and healthy fats, right? I recommend typically when you eat, you want to eat roughly about 30 maybe 40 grams of protein if you’re trying to put on muscle mass, let’s say your weight lifting or something like that, you may even need more but when you sit down and eat a meal you should be looking at somewhere around 30 to 40 grams of protein in there. You know, roughly around 30 grams or so of fat in there, um, somewhere in that range is usually a good range depends you know can obviously range a little bit depending on the individuals body size or gender their activity level but somewhere in that range where you’re getting the fat, you’re getting the protein and then you know, you might have a little bit of carbs and some vegetables or maybe some berries, some low glycemic fruit but you know, you don’t want a tremendous amount, you don’t, you really want to minimize the amount of starch that you’re consuming throughout the day. Starch and sugars and just get them from real foods after you have your protein and your fat levels, your macros right on your protein and fat.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. And kind of my philosophy is anywhere between a palm to a full hand of protein, that’s usually three to six ounces again if you’re bigger and may go higher to eight ounces, if you’re done doing a lot of lifting of weights, you know, you may be able to shift that and then usually carbohydrate-wise, I kind of say between two fish the two full hands and I would say mostly vegetables is pretty good. And if you’re gonna throw some starch in there, you know, there are some theories, I tend to go later in the day because of the carb backloading theory of just being more insulin sensitive later in the day and I try to stack in the fast at night with really lower carb throughout lunch to really tap into more being able to utilize ketones and fat for fuel. What’s your thoughts on that?
Dr. David Jockers: I completely agree about that. In fact, that’s what I talked about in my book keto metabolic breakthrough when I talked about carb cycling and even getting keto adapted in the beginning is really trying to push those carbs into the later in the day. Even a lot of people say well then you’re gonna store them as fat it’s not necessarily true because if you go low carb throughout the day, your body’s actually gonna burn up all your sugar stores in your liver and your muscles and so now you’re gonna have this wide open available storage for those carbs when you consume them to put it right back into the liver, right back into the muscle in the form of glycogen so you’re not just gonna turn it right into fat and I think that’s a much much better strategy and what I’ve noticed is that when people go lower carbs throughout the day. They have less cravings throughout the day. The earlier you eat more carbs earlier in the day, cravings go up and your overall, the amount of calories and the amount of carbs that you’re gonna consume throughout the day goes up.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So yeah. A part of the big reason why exercise, especially lifting or interval training is so beneficial is one it makes your muscles a little bit bigger and then muscles are like a sponge for glucose and so one you’re wringing out the sponge when you exercise so you’re burning the glucose but then you’re also hypertrophy in the muscle making it bigger so it’s like taking a big sponge and cleaning up that messy table I had a patient just do this as an experiment, he tested his blood sugar after meal, it was 140, 140, right, mg/dL and I tell patients, if you, you know, make a mistake with your carbohydrate or just too much junk after meal just do a five or ten minute walk. Well, he did an elliptical, a ten-minute kind of like interval on the elliptical that measured his blood sugar. 10 minutes later it went from 140 to 85.
Dr. David Jockers: He was activating that skeletal muscle. And another quick tip there too is you could even just do, if you know, you’re gonna have a higher carb meal, do 50 air squats right or 20 air squats or whatever you’re able to do, just do that. Get yourself kind of in a state where you’re breathing heavily. Give yourself a few minutes just kind of calm down, take some deep breaths and then eat your meal. Now, you’ve activated the Glut-4 receptor, right? So, the Glut-4 receptor, right? So, the Glut4 transporter protein that actually acts like insulin to pull the sugar into the cell and again you gotta get that sugar out of that cell because the sugar will create more oxidation and will create a process called glycation or browning inside of your body. If it’s stuck in the bloodstream at a high level like that 140 like your client there. So, we want to pull that out and we don’t wanna do it with a lot of insulin, right? So, we want to be able to get the sugar out of the bloodstream and into the cells with the least amount of insulin production and that’s what the exercise will help with.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and that’s why I recommend like during the day I have a stand desk here so I have a treadmill over here that I can control with the remote so I’ll move my desk over there like yesterday on my fitbit here, I walked 18 to 19000 steps yesterday. So, I moved it over my treadmill. I’m working with patients and then I have my little Cubii stepper over here so I lower my desk and now I’m able to pedal so I’ll go from pedaling to just standing and then doing actual walking at three to four miles per hour. I can go one or two miles per hour if I want. If I’m really focused, I don’t want to put a lot of energy out and put more brain energy. So, it’s good if you’re in those work environments. Start with just the Cubii where you just get the little pedals, put them onto your desk and just try to get an extra 5000 steps a day with just that alone. That makes a huge difference.
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah. That’s great. And I can tell, you know, from the last time I talked to you, you actually look more muscular and trimmer as well.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh yeah. Thanks. Appreciate it.
Dr. David Jockers: It’s working.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You got it. You got it. Uh, What’s number four?
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah. So, number four is gonna be infections. So sometimes, you can eat a great diet, right? You can really try to put your body in the right mindset, right, and in parasympathetic mode so you’re able to produce the right amount of digestive juices but you’ve got infections particularly gut infections that are driving up inflammation in your gut, driving up inflammation, driving up cortisol levels and these bad gut microbes which could be Candida, right, or some sort of a yeast or fungal overgrowth. It could be bacteria like Klebsiella for example, it could be parasites, it could be worms, it could be, um, you know, Blastocystis hominis and different Amoeba and different things like that. These things are gonna eat the nutrients that you’re consuming. They’re going to poop out toxins, right? Toxins are gonna drive up inflammation in your system. So, sometimes, we need to use some herbs and different compounds to help remove these infections and follow specific protocols, uh, to get rid of these infections. That’s really the next thing that we got to focus on there.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep. 100%. So, first off, just being in a really healthy parasympathetic state with good acid and enzyme and bio levels. Those actually provide like almost like natural bleach for like the dirty picnic table so it makes it harder for microbes to grow when there’s good acids there, a good bile, these things have a natural antimicrobial effect, number one and then typically good beneficial bacteria in the gut it’s also gonna produce some level of acids whether it’s glucuronic acid or different acids that are very helpful for keeping bugs in check but then when you’ve eaten too much sugar or been exposed to antibiotics or your sympathetic fight-or-flight’s off, these microbes start to overgrow and then you’re in this then it starts to shift the whole milieu so then you kind of have to fix everything. You have to fix the digestion, fix the diet, use the herbs to knock down whatever microbes are going on. There can be different microbes and sometimes when those microbes are in there, you can’t just go back to doing lifestyle things changing your diet and digestion that may not be enough and sometimes the herbs are really necessary to kind of knock things down.
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah. Absolutely. So, just like you said, I mean, naturally if you’re producing enough stomach acid, bile, stomach acid really helps to sterilize the stomach and then bile is very alkaline, stomach acid is very acidic, bile goes in, really helps clean out the small intestine, you know, a lot of people are developing bacterial overgrowth in the small intestine. Sometimes, these are good bacteria but they’ve translocated from the large intestine into the small intestine and now they’re fermenting foods, you know, they’re eating foods before they should be creating a lot of extra gas causing poor nutrient absorption and this is oftentimes related to poor stomach acid, poor bile flow, not really creating the right environment and now these bacteria are translocating up there. So, yeah, these are all things that we need to get rid of. We need to really optimize stomach acid bile flow. So that’s key. And then sometimes, some different herbs, different compounds can be really helpful. Things like garlic, um, let’s see Berberine, can really, really be helpful here. Olive leaves can be a great one. Black walnut, right? What are some of your other favorite antimicrobials?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’d say, the oil of Oregano’s wonderful. Ginger, um, silver, I like wormwood a lot too. These are all excellent compounds that are very helpful. And then, typically, when we do a lot of killing, we may even throw some biofilm boosters in there whether it’s ginger or silver or an acetylcysteine can work wonderfully to help the herbs work even better, kind of disarm the bug so to speak.
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah. Super important. And I know we’re running low on time so the next two I’m gonna put together. Chronic stress and poor sleep habits. So, these kind of go hand in hand, obviously, if you’re under a lot og stress, it’s gonna cause higher cortisol levels, higher epinephrine levels, which is gonna cause more laxity in that gut so when you have high cortisol, the tight junctions that keep the gut, uh, connected and with a lot of integrity become loose also high cortisol will cause a reduction in the mucous membrane which is kind of like the first line of defense in your gut before you get to the gut lining so you’ll have less mucus production, lower levels of secretory IgA which is your key immune component that helps protect your gut lining, it helps protect against pathogen buildup in your gut and then the gut junction will become more leaky or more loose and will tear more easily so it predisposes you to leaky gut and of course we know chronic stress will also impact your sleep quality and then if you’re not sleeping well that also is gonna cause more issues with stress with higher cortisol, higher adrenaline and you know, obviously, that’s gonna compound your gut health and your ability to just heal and repair and produce the right amount of anabolic sex hormones in order to repair and really thrive.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. We talked about anabolic building up and catabolic breaking down. Well, cortisol, our stress hormone, the glucocorticosteroid, you mentioned, is on a circadian cycle so it’s higher in the morning and lower at night. Now, the problem is it goes down at night which allows melatonin, the sleep to come up but the problem is when we start to have overstimulation sympathetic nervous system stress, that rhythm can start to almost, it can actually pick up at night which then throws off our ability to make melatonin which throws off the parasympathetic restoration that happens when you sleep and growth hormone going up and all of your neurotransmitter turning over so like you kind of mentioned that sleep, it’s so important because when that throws off that prevents the healing and recovering and so it’s almost like a double whammy so to speak.
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah. You really can’t recover if you’re not sleeping well. That’s actually, it’s one of the most foundational things. I know I can help somebody if we can get them sleeping well. The faster we get them sleeping well, the faster their body is gonna heal.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. You can get like, um, like a fitbit where they have an HRV function or like the whoop or the aura ring and you can test kind of your HRV and your sleep depth and I’ll do different things, I’ll like take extra GABA or Athenian or Magnesium or avoiding alcohol like I’ll just have one like night alcoholic drink like two to three hours for bed and my HRV score will be way lower that next morning so get a device where you kind of test and see the different inputs and outputs in regards to healthy supplements and lifestyle strategy and see how that moves the needle. You may see it with blue blocking glasses or prayer or meditation or breathing or cold showers. These are all important inputs and then you can see how your body responds as a result.
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah. Totally. Totally. And the last thing is just environmental toxins. So, we’re being exposed to pesticides, herbicides, mold, you may have mold in your home that you’re being exposed to or in your office or something along those lines. Heavy metals, let’s say you’ve got Amalgam fillings in your mouth, um, you know, you can obviously get, get, get toxins from that, um, lead, let’s say you’re in an old home and there’s lead paint or something along those lines or you’re using conventional lipstick which actually has lead and you’re putting that on every single day. So, there’s a lot of different exposures to environmental toxins that you know may be causing you not to be able to heal effectively and drive up inflammation in your body. So, we gotta do the best we can so I always recommend trying to go as organic as possible with food at least trying to get non-GMO for sure and organic as possible with your food. That eliminates one of the major causes of you know toxicity and just a build up of toxins in your body. It’s like, we all have this bucket of toxins we can handle, we have a certain threshold that we can handle and our body will eliminate those things. And so, when we build it up though once that bucket gets to the point where it’s overflowing, that’s when we start to have the major symptoms. All our systems start to shut down so the more that we can reduce the amount that we are going into this bucket the better off we’re gonna be at eliminating them and so you know just trying to reduce exposure is key. Get natural household cleaning products. You know, try to get outside a lot, breathe fresh air as much as you can and uh and exercise, right? So, trying to exercise, you can obviously get in a sauna and try to sweat, try to open up all the drainage pathways and try to minimize your exposure to these toxins. That’s really the key.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. And, each one of those seven could be a podcast in and of itself and of course we got lots of recommended supplements as well. We’ll put maybe a link below and you can put some of your favorite products and uh below. So listeners that are wanting to understand. Hey, what can I do to sleep? What can I do for inflammation? Like, I will put our favorite ones below and you guys can take a look at that, um, and then also feel free to reach to Dr. Jockers. J-o-c-k-e-r-s dot com. David’s got all kinds of supplements and tools and great information there and I’m Dr. J, justinhealth.com, you can reach out to podcast videos and functional medicine consult worldwide there. Dr. David, anything else you want to add?
Dr. David Jockers: You know, I just want to inspire you guys to know that you can heal if we can find the root causes and move those right and eliminate and reduce those. Your body has this natural built-in mechanism to heal, right? It’s the innate intelligence that runs you that God designed you with. And, you can heal and you can repair and can get inflammation under control. Inflammation is there to support you, you’ve got to just find out what’s causing it to be chronic, what’s causing it to be turned on all the time, start reducing that and now your body is going to be back into a mode where it can heal repair and you can really thrive in life even if you’ve tried these things we’ve talked about and you’re not getting results, reach out somebody like Dr. J here or my health coaching team. You’re gonna need a professional to help, walk you through the process, put you on protocol and get you the results that you want.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I love it and there’s a lot of foundational information out of the gates. People can kind of take and turn with and then kind of get that extra, you know, uh, that extra guide or that Sherpa helps that kind of get to the top of the mountain so to speak. So, Dr. Jockers, I really appreciate today’s podcast. Great intel, great information. Awesome man, you have a great day. Good chatting with you.
Dr. David Jockers: Awesome. You too Dr. J. You’re blessed.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Thanks Doc.
The Mold Gut Connection – How Your Digestive Issue Maybe Caused by Mold Toxins | Podcast #371
If you’ve encountered mold from a water-damaged building or contaminated foods, you’ve likely encountered mycotoxins—toxic byproducts of mold. They’re common environmental toxins, and they have adverse effects on many body systems, including the gastrointestinal tract.
While you’ve probably heard about other symptoms that can follow mold exposure, Dr. J and Evan discuss that mycotoxins can also cause severe problems for your gut. They also talk about how mycotoxins impact gut health and the microbiota and what you can do to help restore your gut health once you are exposed to mold.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani
In this episode, we cover:
0:00 – Introduction
1:57 – Mycotoxins
10:16 – Functional Medicine Approach
13:54 – Dopamine Mechanis
15:20 – Mold Inhalation Effects
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And we are live, It’s Dr. J here in the house with Evan Brand. Today’s topic is gonna be wonderful for the podcast. We’re gonna be talking about the mold-gut connection and how your digestive issues may be exacerbated by mold toxins, so great topic here Evan, personally been affected by himself and we see lots of patients all the time with these issues so let’s dive in. Evan, how are we doing today man?
Evan Brand: Yeah man, doing really well, and a lot of people have been to naturopaths, they’ve been the functional medicine people they’ve been a conventional doctor, they’ve been treated for SIBO and SIFO, whether it’s Rifaximin or natural SIBO protocols, maybe they’ve done SIBO diets or some of these rotational food diets and that sort of things, maybe they’ve tried berberine, oregano, garlic, and maybe they’ve made some progress, but then they’re still stick, they’re still suck, I’m gonna mix up my words, they’re stuck and sick so that’s a bad combination of essays and this is likely due to a mold toxin problem because I’ve seen it too many times and I suffered on my own and even the labs now tell us they give us a cookie-cutter report but that cookie-cutter report nonetheless is still valuable because even the lab has painted the connection between mycotoxins which are essentially mold farts that you breathe in, in a water damage building and the connection to certain bacterial overgrowth, specifically Clostridia but also Candida and the mechanism of why this is so damaging especially to young children is because we know that Clostridia bacteria screw up the organic acid levels called HPHPA and this affects levels of neurotransmitters, so when you get these children, they have behavioral issues, they may be diagnosed with something like PANS, which is a Pediatric Acute Neuropsychiatric Syndrome. These kids usually have sensory problems, food sensitivity, skin issues, histamine problems, allergies, maybe they’re biting children, maybe they’re angry or irritable, this can all be traced back due to this toxicity.
Dr. Justine Marchegiani: 100%. So that’s quite interesting, now you talked about mycotoxins essentially being mold fart, so essentially the mold off-gasses, right? And, your different kinds of mold, right? It could be Penicillium, it could be Aspergillus, right? It could be the black mold, Stachybotrys, these types of things and then they produce various mycotoxins and when we do different tests, like plate testing on homes, supposedly each mold or so can produce about 300 different mycotoxins, whether it’s Ochratoxins, or aluminum is that correct?
Evan Brand: Yeah, which is crazy because we can only test for a very, very small amount on the urine so really, we’re trying to just look for some evidence of this bonfire, we’re looking for the ashes, Oh my god, there must have been a fire here, this big mold exposure, we’re only looking at the tip of the iceberg so yeah, you’re right. Our testing is good but it’s still very primitive compared to the amounts of mycotoxins that are being produced.
Dr. Justine Marchegiani: Yeah. And the type of organic acid testing that we’re doing is on the great plains. We’ll look at some of the organic acid compounds that correlate with, like Aspergillus or different mold toxins. Is that correct? What are those big mycotox? What are the big organic acids again?
Evan Brand: So, it’s all on paper.
Dr. Justine Marchegiani: Membranes
Evan Brand: Yeah. So, you’ll see oxoglutaric. You’ll see citric acid can be high in a fungal overgrowth too so it’s all page 1. Oxaglutaric, you got hydroxybenzoic which is related to bacteria. I could pull up an O but in general it’s just page one. It’s typically numbers 1 through 18. If you see any big red flags on that either a combination of a bacterial overgrowth specifically a clustering problem and or Candida or fungal colonization and the lab indicates that so tartaric acid would also be on there, carboxy citric acid is also on there. So, in parenthesis, you’ll see under these organic acids now which is great because this has improved over the years that you and I’ve been running these labs. It now says Aspergillus so on number 6, which is tartaric acid under number six, it’ll now say Aspergillus. And you’ll know if that’s elevated, you’re colonized for Aspergillus which means that you’ve now been exposed to a couple situations could have happened either you had a large enough amount of mold, you were exposed to mold, long enough or your immune system was weak enough where now you become a mold factory. So, you can be a mold reservoir, more specifically a mycotoxin reservoir where you just have this exposure at the moldy hotel in Mexico and then you come back home and you’re sick or if you were weak enough, now you’re growing mold. Even if you move to the desert to avoid mold, you stay sick because you’ve got that colonization so with
Dr. Justine Marchegiani: Ionization, that’s happening.
Evan Brand: Yeah. So, you can prove that which is very important because now that would justify the use of herbal antifungals to try to remedy this situation.
Dr. Justine Marchegiani: That makes sense. Let me go pull up one of my old tests. Let me see if I can find it. Hold on.
Evan Brand: Now, the conventional treatment is typically antifungal medications that are gonna knock this out. But, as you and I with our functional practice, we don’t like to use that. So, number 4 would be classified as the fungal, the ferran-2,5-tricarboxylic, you’ve that Ferran carbonyl glycine. Yeah. So, number six. Yeah. So, this is old enough where they didn’t have the molds but on the new ones in parentheses
Dr. Justine Marchegiani: Let me say Aspergillus. It is primarily Aspergillus for all three of these.
Evan Brand: Yeah, and the number nine tricarboxylic is Fusarium.
Dr. Justine Marchegiani: Fusarium. Yep. And then Arabinose and Tartaric are also correlated with yeast overgrowth. This test here for instance, I did a great plane and a Genova test at the same time and this one actually came back much higher on the Arabino side than the great plains. then the Genova tested. So, it’s interesting you know different samples and such. But yeah, this one Arabinose is strongly correlated with Candida but then
Evan Brand: I just ran my own, I’ve got Candida right now too so I’m on a protocol, right? Now, I just run. Yeah. I showed up with Candida and I want people to know because you were a speaker on the event. It was called the Candida summit which I ran like five years ago and you know we had like 30 people talking about it and I could look back but I tell you I don’t think anybody had made the connection here which was the mold Candida connection back then and now what I’m finding is basically you’re just playing whack-a-mole with Candida until the mold’s gone meaning you may rotate through various rounds of antifungals but out the back door, you’ve got to be using the appropriate binders to pull out the mycotoxins so if you’re just beating Candida down and it keeps coming back. It’s probably the mold, not the Candida that you need to be after.
Dr. Justine Marchegiani: Yeah. And, that’s where it’s good to run a test like this. Also, maybe a urinary mycotoxin test or just make sure your environment’s good because I always tell patients if the environment’s not good and you’re having reoccurring issues then you’re just not getting to the root cause. So, the first thing is to isolate the environment. Make sure the environment, your home, your apartment wherever you’re living run a high-quality mold plate test on there. We’ll put links down below where you guys can access the plate testing. Isolate that, right? Make sure there’s no water damage or if there’s been leaks. Make sure it’s been addressed and dealt with. Make sure that’s dialed then the second thing is you can run a test like an organic acid test with your functional medicine provider. See if there’s any colonization. And, it that’s chronic, yo can get to the root on that and then you can always run urinary mold where you’re looking at mycotoxins coming out in the urine that can also be helpful but typically if this is good and there’s nothing at the home then you’re probably in pretty good shape and it’s probably more of an acute kind of dysbiosis thing probably from poor diet, poor digestion other bugs, other infections, etc.
Evan Brand: Yeah. And the cool thing is that you can kill two birds with one stone or even three birds with one stone and what I mean by that is let’s say you run that oh and you showed the elevated Arabinose, you know, there’s a Candida problem but if we see tartaric above that’s high and then down below, we see some of the bacterial overgrowth markers, the blends that you and I formulate and have, we might be able to kill bacterial overgrowth, fungal overgrowth and a Candida problem. All in one fell swoop and that’s incredible and you know your gastroenterologist or even your mold doctor is likely not gonna be able to do that. They may come in specifically with itraconazole or fluconazole or nystatin. But as you know, we’re facing this big problem of antifungal resistance just like we’re finding with antibiotic resistance and so now, you’ve got these very virulent strains which are difficult to kill with conventional medications. You and I have talked about this before but the long story short of it is all the different alkaloids and terpenes and beneficial nutrients in the plants, those don’t have this resistance problem. And if you’re mixing this herb and that herb, it’s not one plus one equals two, it’s one plus one equals ten. You get the synergistic effect.
Dr. Justine Marchegiani: Yeah. You see the same thing with addressing bacteria and other bigger bugs and berberines and Artemisia Wormwoods have synergistic effects. Also, the fact that you get a lot of antioxidants in a lot of these herbs. And so, especially if they’re high-quality, you get a lot of antioxidant support because when you start killing bugs, it’s a lot of oxidative stress that’s happening. And then, when you provide like an antifungal like Diflucan or an Amphotericin or a nystatin or a ketoconazole, obviously, there’s no antioxidants in those drugs and so you’re gonna have a lot of oxidative stress so it’s nice to have a blend different herb in there. One, to prevent the resistance. And then, also, people have yeast issues and a lot of times they have bacterial bugs as well and efflux pumps are a big thing that a lot of bacteria and bugs use to kind of protect themselves. So, I cannot say, like bacteria is like a sinking canoe, right? and essentially, you poke holes in that canoe with a lot of the herbals and think of the efflux pumps as the person in the canoe, baling water, right? So, they try to keep on bailing water, bailing water, so they don’t sink, right? And so, think of the herbals when you inhibit the efflux pumps whether it’s a ginger or different antimicrobials, it’s like taking the buckets away from the bacteria that’s bailing water and allows then to sink that allows them to effectively be destroyed that along with addressing biofilms too.
Evan Brand: Yeah. That’s awesome and the cool part too is you can minimize the die off if you’re doing this right. You know a lot of people when they hear these conversations, they get afraid. They go oh my God, Candida, mold, bacteria, parasites, worms like oh my God, this is a lot of stuff in me. I want it out of me but now I’m afraid. Am I going to feel worse before I feel better and the answer is if you do it properly that should be minimal to a nonexistent problem? I think you and I have refined our protocol so much over the years now that we have these tools and these other therapies in place that are standalone products but we often add those in or if we see that we hit a roadblock or a big bump in the road like a die off, we can change dosing. We can rotate. We can add in other support. We’re always talking about liver and gallbladder and binders and hydration and biofilms. These other pieces, these other variables, these are the make-or-break things for some people.
Dr. Justine Marchegiani: 100%. And when people kind of want to go after the gut, we live in an antibiotic like kill, kill, kill generation so people tend to, when they find out they have an issue, they want to go kill, kill, kill and that can be very stressful in the body so it’s always very important to calm down the inflammation, get the immune system stronger, get the hormones that help with anabolic metabolism which is healing, recovering, anti-inflammatory support that kind of sets the table because the more stressed and inflamed you are, your lymphatic system, your detoxification system, your immune system won’t work as good and plus people forget your detoxification system, right? The cytochrome p450 oxidized pathways, especially the phase two pathways, they’re gonna run off of a lot of sulfur-based amino acids and so if we don’t have great digestion and we’re not eating you know good healthy animal protein or good healthy plant cruciferous vegetables. If we can’t tolerate them, we can’t break them down. May not have a lot of those sulfur building blocks to run those phase two pathways and so that’s why kind of getting the deck set so to speak so we can really hit phase two better just not with support but just getting digestion working better and a good diet working better sets the table and allows us to effectively kill so much better.
Evan Brand: Yeah and I know we’ve talked about a lot in a short amount of time, we’ve gone fast so listen back as needed but I want people to understand the connection because of the title of this episode, I want people to understand the mold-gut connection. So, the connection is the following: the mycotoxins weaken the immune system and allow the opportunistic bacterial overgrowth to thrive along with the Candida. So, if you’re working upstream at the SIBO-SIFO situation but you’ve got an underlying mycotoxin problem, you’ve got to address that if you fully wanna get better. The other mechanism of the mycotoxins is a couple. Number one is they damage the microbiome so we know specifically that mycotoxins do the same thing as, like food allergens, they disrupt the gut barrier and create intestinal permeability. So, that’s another reason you want to pull those out of the circulation by using specific binders based on your labs. And then the other mechanism too is we know mycotoxins affect the brain chemistry and specifically lower dopamine so when you get into pain signaling, you get into motivation and mood and just your overall vitality. If your brain chemistry is affected, we can also measure that but it could be directly attributed to the toxin for example in like rat studies when they inject them with mycotoxins or expose them to mold toxin, the dopamine levels crash. So now, all of a sudden, you’ve got this brain chemistry piece to address too, now people have heightened pain sensitivity, they’re depressed. They may be just more flat with their life. Once again, they go to their psychiatrist. They’re not gonna bring up mold toxicity, they’re putting them on an antidepressant medication. They’re never gonna say, “hey, oh your basement is flooded, that’s why you’re depressed and anxious and you have diarrhea”. So, the connection of the gut symptoms too, the diarrhea, any type of bloating, burping, digestive pain especially in children. Children don’t use the same language as adults. So, if your child is complaining about stomach pain that could be one clue that there’s something related. That was my issue for my daughter, Summer. She was complaining of tummy aches so we did run stool on her. She did have H. pylori when she was two. We tested real high. Maybe I gave it to her by sharing water bottles or something but either way, we took care of that and then stomach pain was continuing that was when we had got exposed to mold. Luckily, I got her on binders. Now, she’s in a better place. So, I’ve seen it unfortunately with my own kids and it’s stressful to see your kids suffer but it’s a good lesson. It’s a good learning lesson that your children are not crazy and if your kids are complaining of a chronic issue like this with pain, you know, consider this as a possibility especially if you as the mother are toxic because the toxins go through the placenta and they also go through breastmilk. So, if you have your own digestive skin, whatever problems, mood problems in your kid, has similar issues as you, well, it could be the generational passing of toxins.
Dr. Justine Marchegiani: So, let’s go over that mechanism one more time with dopamine. So, obviously dopamine is a neurotransmitter and when we’re chronically stressed, physical, chemical or emotional, dopamine can go downstream and get converted into adrenaline which kind of helps manage the acute stress response. Is it just a fact that the mold is inflammatory and creating a stress response and activating the sympathetic nervous system that the dopamine is being taken and depleted downstream or is there something else? I want to make sure I get that mechanism hammered down.
Evan Brand: I don’t know. Type in rat dopamine, mold or rat dopamine, mycotoxin. See if you can find it. There were several papers on this. I don’t know if they discussed the mechanism in it or not. My assumption would be that it’s multifactorial. I think the big mechanism would be that the mycotoxins affecting the gut barrier then affecting nutrient absorption then there’s likely less amino acid conversion to dopamine. So, I’m thinking, it’s more of a malabsorption problem but also we know that ochratoxin for example damages
Dr. Justine Marchegiani: Like malabsorption, like it’s affecting the absorption of protein in the gut?
Evan Brand: Yeah. I think that’s one mechanism. I think the other mechanism would be direct brain damage. We know that okra toxin for example damages the cerebellum. We know that the Verrucarin and the Stachybotrys mycotoxins affect the brain and the prefrontal cortex which impairs, like your ability to think clearly. So, I think it’s both. I think it’s the gut damage and I think it’s the direct brain damage too. I am going to pull it up here. Can you see it on screen?
Dr. Justine Marchegiani: Yep.
Evan Brand: Let me make it bigger on my side here.
Dr. Justine Marchegiani: Yeah. So many mycotoxins, trichothecenes. We test that in some of the mycotoxin tests. Yeah. Induced neuronal cell apoptosis so some of that could be you’re just causing the cells in the brain and especially in the substantia nigra of the midbrain. That’s where dopamine cells are being produced. Some of it could be apoptosis that means programmed cell death and or inflammation in the olfactory epithelium.
Evan Brand: Interesting.
Dr. Justine Marchegiani: So, it seems to be a neurodegenerative and then look it says it caught ochratoxin A causes acute depletion of dopamine and its metabolites.
Evan Brand: Look at that.
Dr. Justine Marchegiani: So, I wonder if that’s a, it sounds like it’s possibly a stress response, right? Because dopamine can, tends to go downstream to adrenaline. It could be almost like an autoimmune response because you’re having apoptosis. This is neuronal cell death, program cell death. This is part of the reason why apoptosis is important, right? Because if you don’t have good immune function, this is how cancer forms, right? Your immune system helps program cells to die when they need to die. This is apoptosis but if you can’t do that then cells can overgrow hence you have a tumor, right? And so, this is actually happening to unhealthy or the very healthy tissue that you need to be functionally healthy that produces dopamine in the midbrain. So very interesting.
Evan Brand: Yeah. Talking about the hippocampus too, we know that hippocampus, I’ve got two of them. Remember, that’s why a lot of people have brain fog problems and also I would say that short-term to long-term conversion is impaired.
Dr. Justine Marchegiani: Can you see this one here? The mold inhalation one
Evan Brand: I’m just seeing that you’re highlighted on the hippocampus word for now.
Dr. Justine Marchegiani: Let me switch back to the other one here. This is mold inhalation. This is interesting. Let’s go pull this up. All tight. Mold inhalation causes innate immune activation, neural cognitive and emotional dysfunction.
Evan Brand: So, this is pretty new. July 2020 paper here so relative.
Dr. Justine Marchegiani: Yeah. Yeah. So, the ability of mold to cause such symptoms is controversial since no published research has examined the effects of controlled mold exposure on the brain. Patient symptoms following mold exposure are indistinguishable from those caused by innate immune activation by bacterial or viral exposure. Interesting. So, in this study here they added in. See here. Toxic and nontoxic mold stimuli would cause innate immune activation with concomitant neural effects and cognitive and emotional behaviors. We internationally administered intact stachybotrys. This is black mold extracted non-toxic stachybotrys spores and a saline vehicle to mice.
Evan Brand: You don’t want to be that mouse.
Dr. Justine Marchegiani: Wow. No. As predicted, intact spores increase interleukin 1 beta, immune reactivity in the hippocampus both spore types decrease neurogenesis. This is forming new neurons in the brain and causing striking contextual memory deficits in young mice while decreasing pain thresholds. So, this is another word saying, causing more pain in the body. So, if you have mold exposure, joint pain could happen, right? And enhancing auditory acute memory in older mice. Nontoxic anxiety. Yeah. Also increase anxiety like behavior. Levels of hippocampal immune function correlated with decreased neurogenesis that’s creating new neurons in the brain. Contextual memory deficits, right? Obviously, less memory and or enhance auditory cued feared memory. I wonder what that means. Maybe it’s just like, uh, you’re more sensitive to external stimuli.
Evan Brand: I read that. Yeah. I read that as sound sensitivity which is yeah part of the toxin and light sensitivity too so people will often have to wear sunglasses even when it’s not very bright. You and I talked about that in the context of adrenals years ago but that’s also a mold toxin thing.
Dr. Justine Marchegiani: Yep. And an immune activation may explain how both toxic mold and nontoxic mold, skeletal elements cause cognitive and emotional decline. So, it’s really important. We don’t wanna be in an area where there’s a bunch of mold toxins and we can do a whole other podcast on how to mitigate mold toxins as a whole. I mean, of course, get your home tested. That’s the first thing. If you have water damage, make sure it’s mitigated by a professional right away because mold starts to form when sitting water in as little as two days. Got to make sure that’s under control and then if you’re on the fence, get yourself tested, right? We’ll run an organic acid test. Maybe run a urinary mycotoxin test and see what your actual load is but again one of the big telltale cue signs is you know, get your home. If there’s mold there and you start feeling significantly better and you go back, you notice an increase and definitely get your internal mold tested as well via urine.
Evan Brand: Yeah. Well. I know we got to wrap this thing up. We got calls to get to but I hope this is helpful for people. We can always get geekier and dive deeper and go longer but I think you guys get the gesture, the connection of the brain toxicity, the gut damage. There’s a mitochondrial element with the chronic fatigue piece. So, if you are suffering from any chronic issue whether it’s mood like depression, anxiety, energy problems like chronic fatigue, low libido, poor erectile function, cold hands, cold feet, increased light sensitivity, blurry vision could be other things but this is a big smoking gun and all of us are inside way too much. We’re not outside like the Amish are all day. They might have moldy homes but they’re not breathing it in the majority of time. They’re outside in fresh air where the toxins are diluted. So, us with our indoor lifestyle as modern humans, we’re at more risk of this stuff and our buckets are already full due to pesticides and other toxicity in the environment so this is a really, it’s an epidemic problem, maybe the biggest one.
Dr. Justine Marchegiani: And not everyone is as genetically sensitive, right? Some people, they go into a moldy area. They get brain fog, right away. Some people do fine. Either way, it’s definitely a stressor in the stress bucket and if you know it’s there, you definitely wanna pull it out because it’s gonna help give you more resiliency and more adaptability. Great podcast today Evan. Everyone listening on the audio version, we pulled up some studies and some lab tests on the video version. We’ll put the link down below so you can see the video version. We’ll put some links to some of the labs and the products that we talked about today so you guys can take a look at those. Evan, great chatting with you. Head over to evandbrand.com to reach out to Evan via functional medicine nutritional support worldwide as well as justinhealth.com, Dr. J myself at justinhealth.com for me myself. We are here to help and support you guys wherever you are. Have a phenomenal day everyone.
Evan Brand: Take it easy. Bye-bye.
The Root Causes of Anxiety – A Functional Medicine Approach | Podcast #370
Conventional medicine labels anxiety as a neurotransmitter imbalance and relies on pharmaceutical drugs to dampen the symptoms. Although, prescription medications can be a helpful and even necessary tool in periods of overwhelming anxiety. But we have so many more tools at our disposal than just medications!
Dr. J and Evan explain that they recognize that anxiety is often the proverbial “tip of the iceberg” in functional medicine. It’s the clear and present warning that something is going on below the surface that needs our attention. Our current circumstances may have been the breaking point, but the anxiety manifests in underlying issues. That’s why rectifying these issues is necessary to make anxiety more manageable or even eliminate it!
Dr. Justin Marchegiani
In this episode, we cover:
0:00 – Introduction
2:06 – Acute and Chronic Stress
4:06 – Amino Acids and Herbs
11:24 – Gut Issues
16:26 – Functional Medicine Approach
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And we are live. It’s Dr. J here in the house with Evan Brand. Today, we’re gonna be talking about the root causes of anxiety, a functional medicine approach, and how to get to the root cause. Really excited about this topic. We see many functional medicine patients with these exact issues and we always want to get to the root cause of why that is so. Evan, how are we doing man?
Evan Brand: I’m doing good. You know the anxiety story for you and I talking about anxiety goes back literally eight years. It would have been late 2014 when I was in my luxury apartment in Austin and I was calling you and I was saying, “dude, I can’t stop this”. My heart is pounding. I’m freaking out. What the heck is going on and you said, “man, if you go to the emergency room, all they’re gonna do is they’re gonna give you some sort of anxiety medication. So why don’t you go and take about a gram of magnesium and see what happens.” And so, that’s what I did. I think I might have had some pharma GABA or some other tools on hand, maybe some passion flower and luckily, I calmed it down but little did I know back then that I had some of the big root causes of anxiety that were unresolved which included mold toxicity, Lyme, Bartonella, some of these tick-borne infections that drive up the nervous system, unfortunately. Now, knock on wood, anxiety’s been a minimal to non-existent part of my life and It’s incredibly freeing because anxiety can be so debilitating that people become housebound or they become afraid to travel, they become afraid to go on planes. They become afraid to seek the raise at their job. They just want to live in this little cocoon because they’re so afraid and anxiety is also very debilitating for children too. It affects their confidence and their self-esteem and their motivation for school and how they get bullied and so, I mean, we could do an hour on this but think just to open this thing up with a bang, I would say that infections are a big driver of anxiety so whatever that is a tick-borne infection like a Bartonella, Babesia, Lyme situation or gut infections like we’ve talked about a thousand times in the last 10 years together which is parasites, bacterial overgrowth, worms, Candida, anything that’s gonna release a toxin or aggravate the immune system.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. 100%. So anytime you look at anxiety, you always have to get to the root cause, right? Obviously, if it’s unresolved emotional stress, your body is designed to create anxiety for a certain situation, like if you, I don’t know, if you have lived in a forest across the street and there are bears, there should be a healthy amount of anxiety so you know, don’t leave food out and you’re just a little bit more careful with your habits so you don’t get attacked by a bear, right? There’s a healthy bit of anxiety there which is good to kind of keep you on edge so you are alert and you make good decisions. We’re talking about things that are, you know, unhealthy amounts of anxiety where you don’t have those types of emotional stressors, right? Obviously, if those emotional stressors are there, kind of take inventory of them and figure out what that corrective action is you need to kind of close the anxiety loop. I always say close the anxiety loop. What is that action? You have to take that allows you to feel confident that you are not ignoring the reason why there is anxiety there. If you did that, great, awesome. Check that off your list. The next thing is like you mentioned, obviously, any type of chronic stress or acute stress can create anxiety, right? And so, chronic and acute stressors do different things to your body. They’re going to cause B vitamins to get recycled and used up at a higher rate. They’re gonna cause magnesium to get used up at a higher rate. They’re gonna put you in a fight or flight position, where your body goes into fight or flight and then that’s gonna cause increases of cortisol, increases of adrenaline and it’s gonna cause your brain to get hyperactive and obviously at the same time it’s gonna affect digestion too when you’re in fight or flight. It’s gonna decrease your body’s ability to make stomach acid and enzymes and it makes it harder for you to break down your food. And so, and then of course, the more stressed you are, now you’re gonna start craving more processed foods that increase dopamine and increase a lot of those, uh, feel-good brain chemicals to buffer that but so, I always look at like what’s the constructive vehicle to fix this, what’s the destructive vehicle. Destructive vehicle feels good at the moment but creates problems down the road. Constructive helps at the moment. May not, maybe not quite as fast but then actually gets to the root cause over time. And so, some of our constructive vehicles like you already mentioned, magnesium, right? Theanine, right? B6, B5, right? And I always look at nutrients first, like nutrients are in the hierarchy before herbs so nutrients first and then, in the hierarchy coming down would be herbs, Ashwagandha, passion flower, Valerian. Those things are nice herbs that kind of activate and stimulate GABA. So, GABA is an inhibitory neurotransmitter. So, it’s the brake pedal on the nervous system. So, think of the gas pedal as adrenaline, as cortisol. That’s the fight or flight nervous system response and the gas pedal is gonna be GABA and the things that are gonna help with GABA are gonna be Taurine, Theanine, GABA in and of itself. And then on the herbal side, things like Ashwagandha have multi-adaptogenic effects. They can increase cortisol and increase stimulation when things are too low but they can also tamp it down when it’s too high. I like my wife. She was really stressed the other day. We are getting our kids out for an easter party and she’s like, “you have something to give me? I am so stressed.” And I’m like, “here you go”. And I gave her a bunch of GABA, Taurine, and Theanine and magnesium, some B5 and vitamin C and some Ashwagandha and she looked at me like two hours later, she’s like, “what the heck did you give me. I’m on cloud 9.” I’m like, yeah, you know that, the better living through chemistry right there.
Evan Brand: That’s great. Yeah, and motherwort. I love motherwort too. It’s great for the anxiety when you’re having, like, heart palpitations, blood pressure type issues as well.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hyperthyroid too. They use it on hyperthyroid, as well.
Evan Brand: Yeah. That makes sense.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Too high thyroid, it can also be. It can help dampen that down, as well, which is nice.
Evan Brand: It’s great for grief too so like the cool thing about certain herbs is they can be an emotionally calming tool but they can be a nervous system calming tool too. So, like, as you mentioned, there could be an emotional thing like a bad boss, a bad spouse, a bully. You know that type of emotional anxiety driver but it could be a chemical driver too, meaning like a toxin driving the nervous system to be ramped up. Also, we should talk about blood sugar. I know we’ve done podcasts on this before but you know there’s a big impact on issues with blood sugar. Thank the Lord, my blood sugar is so good now, I could eat dinner at five and not eat till 1pm the next day and I’m stable, like, I can fast for extended periods of time as needed and I don’t have any issue but however when my gut was a wreck which I want people to pay special attention to, if your digestive system is compromised, you’re not gonna be tolerating fasting that well because you’re already so likely nutrient deprived because of the malabsorption due to the infection. So, years ago when I tried doing this type of fast, I would have major anxiety and that’s low hanging fruit so do what you got to do but you got to get your gut tested and then fix the infection first.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. So, just kind of looking at a bunch of different things. So, on the emotional side, right? If it’s unresolved emotional trauma that’s creating anxiety, you know, someone wrote about DNRS, that’s great. You know, this NLP, where you kind of visualize a stop sign or something to kind of do a pattern interrupt. That’s excellent. EFT, EMDR with eye movement or different tapping on meridian points to kind of dampen down that sympathetic nervous system response. And again, these are gonna be good, you know, uh, more chronic issues. Yeah. If it is an acute issue, you know, a lot of times, just get to the root underlying issue where that issue is acute.
Evan Brand: I was on a plane one time and the turbulence was so bad and I started tapping on the plane. That really helped. I’m like okay. Even though it feels like this plane is about to crash, I love and accept myself and I’m like okay that’s fine.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Especially things like that. You don’t have control, right? There’s nothing you can do outside of just sitting there and getting through it. And so, it’s better when those things are kind of the case but you know, it’s kind of like, I’m just trying to think of you know an example, it’s kind of like, you go upstairs and don’t turn the alarm on for the house or like maybe did I leave the front door unlocked, right? And so, there’s a natural bit of anxiety. You start going down to bed and that little bit of anxiety kind of creeps in, you’re like, I’m not gonna be able to get to sleep fast if I don’t at least just check on the front door, right? So, let me make, oh good, it’s locked. Oh good, the alarm is on. Good. Now, that anxiety can go down because it’s there for a reason, right? So, if there’s a root cause, act on it, right? If there’s isn’t a root cause, right, but it’s more emotional, you can do some of the tapping and you can work with a practitioner to get to the root cause on that and then of course having better biochemistry will get will make every bit of anxiety better because you’ll be able to adapt to it and deal with it better. And so, of course, like we already talked about with cortisol, chronically high levels of cortisol and adrenaline are gonna be big so you have to get to the reason, the root cause why. And again, foods could be a reason why like gluten, too much processed sugar that can drive up that anxiety. Again, you already mentioned blood sugar fluctuations. If you’re on this reactive hypoglycemia roller coaster ride where blood sugar goes up because you ate too much processed carbohydrate, refined foods, junkie, vegetable oil, omega-6 fats. Blood sugars up and then it can crash right back down. The crashing is where you tend to get a lot of adrenaline cortisol stimulation and on the way up, you get lots of insulin so you get this insulin-cortisol-adrenaline kind of tug of war happening and that can be very stressful on the body. And then, of course, if your blood sugar is chronically high and you’re making tons of insulin that can also be a problem too. High levels of insulin can cause all kinds of problems with hormones, especially in women, it can cause issues with ovarian cysts and testosterone problems. And then, high levels of blood sugar deplete a lot of your B vitamins and magnesium. And so, if we have poor levels of B vitamin and B6 and B5 and B1 and B2 and B3 and folate and B12 and magnesium is depleted, that’s gonna cause more stress and more cortisol issues and it’ll be harder for you to deal with and adapt to that.
Evan Brand: And I would say, if you have anxiety longer than the week, I would almost consider that chronic. I mean, it’s crazy to me, how many people you have and I’ve talked to over the years who’ve had anxiety for a decade or longer and sometimes as one person commented that anxiety and OCD together is terrible. A lot of times OCD does come hand in hand with anxiety. We’ve done podcasts specifically about amino acid therapy and we use amino acid therapy in our clinics but if you have OCD, anxiety, low self-esteem, worry, negativity, depression, disturbed sleep, those are all symptoms of low serotonin. So, what you need to do is to get an organic acid test so we can measure this and look at the brain chemistry because if you’re not testing, you’re guessing. So, when you’re listening to this conversation about anxiety, I swear to you, you’re never gonna find a psychiatrist that’s gonna say, “hey, maybe we need to run an organic acids test, maybe you have low brain chemistry because you have bacterial overgrowth. So, we’re also gonna run a stool test. If they’re out there, send them our way, we’ll do a podcast with them but I doubt your psychiatrist is ever gonna consider running functional medicine testing on you to investigate this. I don’t care if you do lorazepam or the klonopin or whatever. It’s not the root cause and it’s gonna dig you.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Any benzo
Evan Brand: Yeah. Any benzo is gonna dig you further in the hole because now you’ve got this dependency issue and now you’ve got his issue of withdrawal and I don’t know if you’ve read some of the stories on this but my God if people try to acutely stop those benzodiazepines, there’s major major major side effects. So, it’s just not around
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Especially, if you’re on doses, you know, above one milligram or so on a benzo, it can be harder to get off and sometimes the taper can be, you know, six months to a year coming off of it. If you’ve been on it for a while or been on a higher dose. Yeah, you need to kind of do a slower type of taper for sure.
Evan Brand: And there’s so much, I mean, just think of how many millions. I didn’t look at the numbers here but how many millions of people are on prescription anxiety medication and they never ever get to the root cause. It’s so sad to think about someone that’s been on like a Lorazepam or another benzo for 20 years and they’ve never once asked about the gut. The question came in, how does dysbiosis cause anxiety. What are the mechanisms? Well, I think, one, right out of the gates is gut inflammation. Number two would be nutrient malabsorption because as you mentioned, a lot of these B vitamins are necessary for many processes in the body including energy production so sometimes you have anxiety and chronic fatigue and that sucks too because now you’re too tired but you’re anxious so that’s not a fun recipe either. What else would you say about the gut anxiety connection?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, so anytime you have chronic gut inflammation whether it’s from food, whether it’s antibiotics. Antibiotics are creating rebound yeast or bacterial overgrowth. We could put H. pylori in that category, and other infections, as well. That’s a one you and I already mentioned, creates malabsorption just from indigestion, right? Not enough enzymes, not enough acids, not absorbing things well. Two, you’re gonna have exogenous production of lipopolysaccharides which in and of itself are a toxin, right? They’re produced, they’re part of the gram-negative bacteria in the gut and they’re stressful on the liver and there’s also can go to the blood-brain barrier. And when they’re in the brain, they can create mood and anxiety issues as well. So yeah, lipopolysaccharides, you could have acetaldehyde and mycotoxins from fungus. You could have issues with the parasites producing their own type of internal toxins for sure. Of course, your body also produces through healthy gut bacteria, a fermentation process to make its own B vitamins, vitamin K. Those kinds of things. So, if we have dysbiosis, we typically are gonna have low levels of beneficial bacteria so we don’t have that good endogenous production behind it. And then, of course, that’s gonna over activate our immune system. So now, we have all these toxins kind of slipping through our bloodstream. We have undigested food particles, getting through our bloodstream. Now, our immune system starts becoming hyperactive and that can suck up energy. That can suck up resources. So, there’s studies on for instance H. pylori creating mental health issues, mental, emotional issues, depression and anxiety partly because of the lipopolysaccharides and endotoxins are the same thing by the way. LPS or endotoxins and obviously nutrient absorption problems too.
Evan Brand: Man, when I had H. pylori, I was super anxious. I don’t know if I was depressed as much but I was definitely anxious and you remember how skinny I got, I mean, I lost so much weight too. So, a lot of people, you know, they look at anxiety on the surface right. And everyone looks anxiety is just like this mental thing and you just need to watch some hoorah motivational video and just get over your fears and that I was like no anxiety goes way deeper than that. You just eloquently illustrated this, the aldehydes from the yeast and the fungus toxins and the bacterial toxins and the parasitic toxins and the mycotoxins. You guys, this anxiety is not in your freaking head. It’s not. It may manifest in your head but the root cause is not in your head unless you’re describing like, this toxin getting across the blood-brain-barrier but beyond that, the gut I would say is the biggest driver of anxiety. I’d say, if I had to pick one place to look, it would be the gut.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. So, when we look at this, what’s kind of the hierarchy of addressing this? So, of course, you fix the foods, right? Because the foods are one. You’re gonna decrease inflammation from the foods. And the inflammation in the foods is gonna cause gut permeability so you cut out the gluten, the dairy, the processed refined sugars and flours, the junky omega-6. You focus on good high-quality animal-based fats, good healthy proteins, you know, more carbohydrate from fruit and starch, especially if there’s blood sugar issues and then from there, then you work on digesting it. So, make sure enzymes and acids and good digestion are there. Get your gut looked at especially if there’s any type of chronic bloating or motility issues or indigestion, unadjusted food in your stool, diarrhea, then you get your gut looked at and of course if this issue is more chronic, you want to look at your stress handling system so the interplay sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous system in your body and your nervous system is your adrenals and so you can get your adrenals looked at cortisol rhythm wise, you can do a cortisol panel. Look at your cortisol in the morning and throughout the day. Make sure it’s not too high or it’s reversed. On a good organic acid test, we can look at neurotransmitters like Vanilmandelate which looks at adrenaline. We can get Homovanillate which looks at dopamine, right? We can get the DOPA which looks at dopamine. We could also get 5-hydroxyindoleacytate to look at serotonin and then of course we can look at B6 like a kind of urenate or xanthurenate, right? We can look at brain inflammation markers like picolinate and quinolinate so there’s inflammation in the brain that gives us more indications. We can look at oxidative stress markers like 8-hydroxy-2-deoxyguanosine. There are good markers out there to look at these different things to give us a window of what’s happening so you know, we work on the food, work on the lifestyle, sleep. Make sure we’re digesting and breaking things down. Look at the nutrient deficiencies, look at the gut, look at the infection, look at the digestion and then of course, you know, we can always branch out and look at mold or mycotoxins or heavy metals or more toxic burdens down the road. That’s the foundation first and then I would say on top of that, if there’s any type of chronic pattern where there’s an emotional trauma involved that’s more unresolved definitely bring in a good practitioner, you know with some tools in their tool bag of NLP or EFT or EMDR or hypnosis. Anything that you want techniques to get into the subconscious but again the healthier you are the better the emotional stuff is to resolve so if you’re doing EMDR and EFT and NLP and you’re eating processed food and crap, it can still work, but it’s gonna be better when your brain chemistry is healthier.
Evan Brand: Oh, yeah. Amen. Well, think about all the people that are in talk therapy and then they go and they go eat a subway sandwich for lunch, thinking that they’re doing themselves a good favor by eating turkey on wheat bread with processed cheese and then they get mayonnaise or sweet and sour sauce on it or whatever the heck they’re doing and then they feel like crap, I mean.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I’m not a big fan of talk therapy in the long term. I think, talk therapy is good did you kind of just consciously process something like how did this happen maybe you’re learning some tools to enter into your life from a habit standpoint to fix whatever that issue was but then most of that trauma sits in the subconscious area of the brain which is where 90% of all your thoughts are subconscious and so that’s where you want some of these techniques like we talked about but I think talk therapy is good to acutely process what you’ve observed whatever your experiences are and then talk about, hey what can you do, you know, as a person today as an adult today, um, you know, from a habit standpoint to address it but then after that then you gotta, you know, if you’re in talk therapy months and months later and you’re still just ruminating over the same thing then it’s a subconscious thing you got to work on next.
Evan Brand: Yeah, and look, don’t let me talk people out of doing it. I’m not trying to do that but what I’m saying is I’ve had people that said, “oh yeah, I’ve been with this therapist for 3 years and I meet with them every week or every other week”. And I’m like, “okay and what do you do with this therapist?” “We talked.”, “Okay and what else do you do?” That’s it. It’s talk therapy and I go, okay, you’ve been doing talk therapy every week or every two weeks for 3 years and you still have anxiety that’s this bad. We got to dig deeper. So, like I said, there’s a role for that but it’s not gonna get you out of the woods. The person who commented about the dysbiosis and anxiety question, they also commented in here said they did have a stool test that showed H. pylori. They have extremely high Morganella which is one of those bacteria we’ve talked about and calprotectin which is gut inflammation over a thousand. Fatigue and anxiety were the main symptoms. We see this everyday all day.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep. Exactly. I’m familiar with that case for sure. And inflammation in the gut can definitely create those types of issues and get to the root cause of it too. And then, someone writes in, about Accutane too, I mean, this is super common if you get into the dermatology world. I mean, dermatologists, they either cut something. They burn it off with a laser. They freeze it off or they use some type of antibiotic, topical or internal or they use some kind of like, synthetic vitamin A. That’s it. That’s the dermatology world you know in a nutshell and they tend to not get to the root, you know, we’re talking like more chronic acne, chronic skin stuff. They tend to not ever get to the root cause of how or why that’s even there. Diet, sugars, junky, omega-6, poor digestion, poor fats, poor proteins. They don’t really get to the root cause of what that is and so, they recommend synthetic vitamin A, which is Accutane, which again, will decrease the amount of oil produced by your sebaceous glands which can be helpful in the short run if they’re producing too much oil but they can create chronic skin and eye dryness in the long term and they’re not even getting to the reason why your skin’s producing too much oil to begin with. Usually, it’s too much insulin. Insulin is a huge driving factor of excess oil and then of course, you have different food allergens, gluten, dairy, too much sugar. That can also cause a lot of problems with the skin cells.
Evan Brand: And not to mention, the connection between people that have anxiety and acne. Guess what, they’re both linked to the gut. So, if you have acne and anxiety, you gotta investigate your gut. Please. Please. Please.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep. 100%. And again, you know, outside of that, you know, we look at different toxins down the road. If we look at heavy metals, there’s different tests. We can look at, to do a challenge test on your metals with a DMPS or some kind of a challenge agent. We can definitely look at mold if there’s mold in the environment that’s important to look at. And again, if you’re in an environment where you feel better leaving that environment then there could be some mold in there, especially, if a history of water damage that was unresolved, definitely want to get your mold looked at or just your home looked at too, especially if it’s something that the whole family is dealing with just get the home looked at to start. It’s usually cheaper and more effective out of the gates.
Evan Brand: Yeah. well said. And, heavy metals too. I’m glad you brought that up. You know, mercury and other heavy metals that can stimulate the nervous system and cause issues. So, if you have a bunch of silver fillings in your mouth, you’ve got to consider that. May not be your number one smoking gun, sometimes it is but heavy metals are a big problem and even detox too can make people feel too sick. I mean, you and I have seen this many times. Other practitioners that have handled people before they come to us or they’ve done something too aggressively with chelation or other detox methods and then they’ve ended up worse. So, there’s like a tight rope and that’s where the art of medicine comes in. Everything is not just like cookie cutters. So, too much is a problem. Too little is a problem and that depends on gut and detox and beta glucuronidase and liver and all of it. So, like if your friend got better and you tried what your friend did and you didn’t do well, that might not be your right protocol.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Exactly. And then, just to kind of highlight the nutrients in, compared to talk therapy, Julia Ross is out there. She’s like a family therapist person but she’s done a lot of books on amino acids and diet and she had different clients that she used to use talk therapy for years and years and years and said, “hey, let me just try adding in some amino acid therapy to their protocol and let’s see how they do with their talk therapy when we add in the amino acids”. She started to do that and then these patients would come the next week and they’d be like, “Yeah, just, I’m just good. I just don’t even feel the need to talk about it. I’m over it”. And it’s like wow so it’s like it gives people the equipment to kind of, like, process these issues and again I think talk therapy acutely may be fine. It’s just when you’re talking about the same thing for years and years and years, you’re probably not getting to the root cause, right? This is probably just covering up something else, you know. Now, I think it’s better than being on a drug, right? So, if it’s helpful and you don’t need a drug that’s great but, in the end, you know, if you can do some of these nutritional things along with it, you may find that you can just deal with the issues better you know I, the analogy I get patients is, try dealing with difficult problems around the home and not having slept for a couple nights. You’re gonna lose your patience with your wife with your kids. You’re not gonna be able to think right, you’ll be foggy, get some good night sleep and then wake up and deal with the problem. It’s like you’re gonna be way more equipped to deal with it. I think that’s kind of how brain chemistry works when you’re dealing with these stressors.
Evan Brand: Yeah. Absolutely. Well, I remember in that book too, talking about how, like, amino acids were administered, right? At the beginning of a session and then the people would just immediately like, smile or loosen up or relax and so it’s amazing no matter how much you talk. Long story short, I know we’ve beat the drum on this for a minute but last thing, no matter how much you talk. It’s never gonna change your levels of serotonin just by talking it out. If you have a gut problem that’s affecting your nutrient absorption which is affecting the tryptophan and the conversion with the B6 over to 5HTP and then over to serotonin and then to melatonin so sleep issues too. So skin, sleep, anxiety, they’re all connected depression. We’ve already talked about that. This person here’s putting a bunch of question marks like they’re mad at us. What is the connection between Accutane and depression?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s just a side effect. It’s a side effect of the drug.
Evan Brand: It could be a side effect. Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Just the side effects of the drug. That’s all it is. Yeah. So certain drugs, you know, are gonna have side effects. Ibuprofen can cause ulcers and liver issues, right? Just a drug side effect.
Evan Brand: Yeah. Well, we got to wrap this thing up. But if you need help clinically, you can feel free to reach out. We work with people around the world. We send these functional medicine labs to your door. We have an incredible logistical team on both sides where it’s incredible. We can help people in literally every part of the globe where people like us don’t exist or maybe they do but we’re better. So, if you need help, you can reach out directly to Dr. J, that’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani at justinhealth.com for consults or me, Evan Brand at evanbrand.com. We’re happy to help. You guys, don’t give up. We’ve been through it. We are warriors ourselves and we’ve worked on our health for years and we love what we do and we love helping people and there’s so much possibility when you can beat an issue like anxiety. So, like I said in the beginning, whether it’s seeking that raise, that new promotion, that new job, that new spouse, you know, that partner, that relationship that you want to grow but you can’t because you’re held back by anxiety. This is a huge huge problem and you can overcome this. So please don’t give up.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. If you guys enjoyed it too, look down below, you’ll see a little link where you can write us a review. We appreciate the review and if, also, it’s benefiting you, feel free to share with family and friends and there’ll be links where you can reach out to us directly to get that extra bit of help. All right guys, have a phenomenal day. Take care. Bye everyone.
Evan Brand: Bye-bye.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Bye.
Top 5 Reasons You Are Losing Muscle Mass | Podcast #369
Muscles are essential to everyday movements, and if you noticeably lose muscle mass — especially without knowing why — it can be alarming. Losing some muscle mass is normal as you age. However, losing muscle mass quickly or atrophy, especially in the context of other symptoms, can indicate an underlying illness.
In this video, Dr. J and Evan discuss the top reasons you lose muscle mass aside from aging. Preventing a loss of muscle mass can also be achieved by exercising regularly (such as functional strength training) in conjunction with a balanced food template of lean meats and proteins, fruits and vegetables, healthy fats, and whole grains.
However, if the loss is due to an underlying illness, it must also be addressed and mindfully managed with a trusted healthcare professional or your functional medicine doctor.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani
In this episode, we cover:
0:00 – Introduction
2:33 – Functional movements
3:37 – Infections
7:21 – Vegan-vegetarian
9:35 – Autoimmune digestive disorders
12:21 – Hormones
15:06 – Types of muscle building
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And we are live. It’s Dr. J here in the house with Evan Brand. Today, we’re gonna be chatting about the top five reasons you are losing muscle mass. This is really important. All right. If you’re losing muscle mass, it’s gonna be essentially an all-cause predictor of mortality, increased mortality. So, we gotta make sure that we’re keeping our muscle mass and or improving our muscle, especially as we get older, we need good muscle to support and stabilize our body so we don’t get hurt, we don’t slip, we don’t fall, we don’t get injured. We don’t slip a disc so to speak. So, we have to make sure that we are keeping our muscles strong and functional. Evan, how are we doing today man?
Evan Brand: Doing really good. I talked with a guy actually this morning where his mother, due to age and related muscle loss, fell, broke her hip, got in the hospital, had to get surgery, got an infection, died. So, I’m not saying everyone is gonna end up like that. But my God, look at how quickly something just like a fall due to lack of muscle strength and mobility could turn into something scary where you’re hospitalized, you’re getting surgeries, you end up with a hospital acquired infection then you’re on antibiotics then you go septic, I mean, this is crazy and so I hope we can help people prevent. This is such a common story. I mean, how many times have you heard, like, old granny falls, breaks her hip and that’s the end of her. She never recovers. It’s like, that’s not good. And so, fortunately, in the past, up until the past couple years, both of my grandparents right around 80 years old, they were playing tennis and they were still active in mobile so I just encourage you guys, just because you’re getting grow older that doesn’t mean that you need to become a couch potato. Even some of her friends that she’d played tennis with are in their mid-80s, still playing tennis, still moving well on the court. So, I just encourage you to find something that you love first and foremost. Use exercise as a side effect of having fun, meaning, if it’s pickleball, if it’s tennis, if it’s ping pong for all I care, I mean, basketball, volleyball, I mean, whatever you can do it. It doesn’t have to necessarily be intense. That’s all fun stuff, maybe competitive, fine. But exercise is a side effect of it. But if you’re just trying to depend on willpower to go run a mile, I think that’s a terrible long-term strategy and I don’t think you’re gonna like to continue with it, like my row machine, you and I both, we have the same row machine, we love it. You can go on there, and you can do little games, you could do just row, you could pick like, oh, I’m gonna, I wanna burn 10 calories or I wanna grow 500 meters and you have this like goal that motivates you to do something, but at the end of the day, all this physical performance is gonna pay dividends.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: No. Exactly. 100 percent. So, when I kind of, when I lift weights, I’m always trying to do functional movements, I think as you get older, especially as you know, you move into adulthood, you want muscles, right, you want to look fit or lean or trim right? You wanna feel solid but you wanna have functional muscles. One that allows you to do housework or click pick-up your kids easier and feel more confident or do well at your sport or just be able to enjoy life and feel good like if you think about, like, getting into a car, right? You get into a car, it’s like a one-legged kind of squat, right? So, I’m a bigger fan. As you get older, trying to do more unilateral body movements, meaning like a one-legged squat, a one-legged lunge or a lunge obviously with that, you know, you can look at discrepancies in your body. If you’re doing a squat, you know, you have other sides that you can compensate for but when you’re doing one-legged movements either a dead lift or a squat or a lunge or a step-up, it magnifies imbalances in the body. I like that because most of the time, when you’re moving, you’re actually on one foot in a sense and so it’s good to do movements like that so you start to develop a lot of the stabilizer muscles that support you when you’re moving so you don’t get hurt.
Evan Brand: Let’s get into the functional stuff, like the functional medicine stuff, not functional movement but like functional reasons, I’m gonna go ahead and say, number one as a category of infections and you and I can break this down as much as you want. Yeah. I’m gonna say infections because you know my story, you saw me, I lost like, 25 pounds without trying and some of it was related to H. pylori. I think the parasite also wrecked me so I would just say infections as a whole.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah so when you have inflammation in the gut, right, it can be cause by infections like a parasite like Cryptosporidium, Giardia, Blasto, H. pylori, bacteria in that category, SIBO, general dysbiosis, bacteria imbalances, right? It creates inflammation in the intestinal tract, right? Whether it’s small intestine, large intestine, if you look at where these nerves sit on the spinal column, they sit in the lower thoracic to lower lumbar spine, and you know, let’s say t10 to L5 or so. Maybe even, maybe even S1 and when you have inflammation in the intestines, it’s on a two-lane nerve root highway from your intestines to your spine back to the muscles, right, so we have what’s called a visceral somatic reflex. So this Visceral means organ, somatic means muscles. So inflammation in the organ can actually take that signal of inflammation put on that two-lane highway to the muscle and it can actually create that muscle to shut down or not be fully facilitated or active and so with inflammation in the intestines can cause that. Now, women know this just think about the average women that has PMS and has PMS symptoms of back pain. It’s their ovaries having inflammation or hormonal imbalance that’s then refluxing to the muscle, right, visceral organ, somatic muscle. So, women know that if they have PMS or if you ever had a gallbladder issue, you feel it in your shoulder, if you have appendicitis, you feel it in that lower right hip quadrant, right? If you have a heart attack, you feel in the jaw down the left side down the left arm so we know there’s this organ muscle connection so a lot of people can have muscle issues because their core and their back gets very weak due to inflammation in their intestinal tract and the more inflammation there is the less likely you’re wanna, you’re gonna, wanna lift and want to do one of them, you know put resistance on your body because you’re just more inflamed and you’re more likely to get hurt and injured.
Evan Brand: Yeah. So, if you, now, not all people lose weight and I’ve seen many women who gain weight magically 20, 30, 40, 50 pounds, sorry ladies, sometimes it happens that way. It’s where you gain weight due to infection but for me and I’ve seen other men the same, you lose weight, so I don’t know, I would just say this, any fluctuation whether it’s weight gain, including muscle loss so you could gain weight and still lose muscle right. You could gain body fat and lose muscle so whether it’s a significant, let’s say 10, 20 pounds or more weight loss or weight gain with no explanation, I would definitely look into the gut, start looking for infections and as you mentioned, the strength is important and people don’t want to get strong if they feel like crap and so for me, luckily, my gut’s much better and now I feel good with resistance training whereas before I was just so depleted. So, let’s go into reason number two, I’m gonna say nutrient deficiencies, now, this ties directly into infections right because in the case of H. pylori, if it’s reducing stomach acid. Now, if you’re eating this good grass-fed steak, you’re not really getting as much nutrition from that and so these nutrient deficiencies compound over time because if you don’t have the amino acids being cleaved off the meats to produce muscle mass that also creates a big problem so nutrient deficiency and we could go any direction you want with this even vegetarian vegans, we could talked about the deficiencies there and how they’re gonna have trouvle with muscle mass.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep. 100%. So, of course, if we have vegan vegetarian, we’re not gonna get enough carbohydrate, we’re not gonna get enough protein, typically or if we get enough protein, right, let’s look at the combination of rice and bean which is a pretty common one. Well, you end up getting 70 grams of protein to 15 grams or so of carbohydrates so you get a lot of carbohydrates. Now, if you’re not that active or you’re more insulin resistant, you know some, most people are gonna need probably a minimum of half their body weight and in ounces of protein so if you’re like 200 pounds that’s 100 grams of protein. Well, do the math if you’re getting 15 to 20 grams of protein per 70, 75 grams of carbs that’s you know, 75 times five, you’re looking at like 340 to 400 grams of carbohydrates. Obviously, you can fix some of that by doing, like, a protein shake, like protein or hemp protein, you know, you can fix some of that. But again, you’re still relying on artificial sources, not whole food sources. Now, the benefit of the animal product is you’re gonna get all the protein, none of the carbs and you’re typically, if they’re grass-fed and pasture-fed, you’re gonna be getting excellent good fatty acids along with it and you won’t be getting a lot of the excess omega-6 fatty acids like you’re not gonna get on the vegetarian vegan side. So, you have this nutritional density that you get on the animal side which is wonderful and as long as we’re choosing you know, avoiding the factory farm, you know, we’re doing grass-fed pasture-fed, you’re gonna be in great shape and the next thing after vegan vegetarian is low stomach acid so if we have achlorhydria, low stomach acid, and that typically connects with low enzymes too, we may have a hard time breaking down a lot of that proteins. So, I know when you had some of your gut infections years ago, I think you had what Cryptosporidium, Gardia, H. pylori, that’s it Three Amigos, right? And so, when you had this gut infection, you also had lower stomach acid, lower enzyme levels. So, supplementing the enzyme and the acid so we can break down those amino acids and then also adding in or cutting out the bugs is helpful and then sometimes adding in some amino acids in a free form can be helpful because 40% of the Energy that you get from the protein actually goes into digesting the protein. It’s like having a credit card with a 40% transaction fee, right? Very expensive. So, there is some benefit by doing amino acids, if it’s already broken down but we still wanna make sure the whole food is dialed in and that we’re getting enough, uh, we’re getting access to the whole food nutrients via hydrochloric acid and enzymes too.
Evan Brand: All right. Moving on to another cause here, and this is inspired by a comment here from Teresa, she said that she has muscle wasting from my colitis. So, we could just say, any gut issues and that one include autoimmune gut issues, right? So, colitis or what’s called pancolitis would be the whole colon, even celiac, Crohn’s, I mean, any of these autoimmune gut issues oftentimes that’s gonna create a lot of muscle wasting that ties directly into what we just said though which is nutrient deficiencies and infections. A lot of these people with major gut issues, like this, there’s usually a trigger. Now, in the case of like, celiac, obviously, that may or may not have a parasite infection involved but this is still part of the equation and we can use gut healing nutrients to work on this, you can put some of this stuff into remission but you know what, I don’t want people to do, you know, what I don’t want people to do is like eat clean all week and then they go eat garbage on the weekend.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Correct. Yep. 100%. And so, of course, if you have colitis, right? Whether it’s microscopic or ulcerative colitis, you know, it’s an extreme irritable bowel disease, you gotta look at the foods and then sometimes the foods could even be in vegetables it could be in the oxalates, the phenols, the salicylates, the FODMAP, so sometimes even healthy foods on paper could be problematic and then of course, you know, the grains and the dairy and he refined carbohydrate and the omega-6 fats of course those right. So, getting the inflammation via food is super important, we talked about dysbiosis, we talked about SIBO, H. pylori, of course is super common because H. pylori is notorious for lowering stomach acid and so of course, if we’re just taking stomach acid and enzymes and we’re not fixing the H. pylori, you know, that may not get to the root cause. So, if we’re taking supplements like hydrochloric acid or enzymes or bile support, we also got to make sure we’re getting to the root cause of any additional bugs that could be present and if we’re chronically stressed like the adrenals if we’re in sympathetic fight or flight the sympathetic fight or flight nervous system tends to be more catabolic than anabolic. So, anabolic is building back up, healing, recovering, getting stronger. Catabolic is breaking down. So, from this fight-or-flight state, our bodies always tend to be it. You know, running versus, building and growing and so if you’re catabolic from the adrenals being over active with cortisol, that’s gonna make it hard to build muscle, you’re gonna be breaking down the muscle instead, making glucose out of it and it’s also gonna be harder to digest because your body’s hard wired to take blood and bring it to the extremity so you can fight, flight or kind of run versus to the organs so you absorb and break down. So, that fight or flight is really important in fir digestion, for where the blood goes and also and how it allocates nutrients. It’s more likely to break down muscle than build muscle back when that fight or flight is really active.
Evan Brand: That’s a good call. That’s exactly where I was gonna go next is hormones, I was gonna talk about maybe low testosterone. We’re seeing that in men in their 20s, 30s, 40s, I mean just low hormone levels and women need some level of testosterone too. So, if you do hormone issues whether that is adrenal related cortisol, thyroid hormone, maybe you can riff on that for a minute because I think people are focusing on gut gut gut, which is great but there’s also this other connection of the hormone piece and I will tell you my cortisol was completely depleted when I did a salivary panel years ago. My cortisol was flat all day and it was really tough no matter how much I tried in the gym, I was weak. Like, just my God, I could not make progress, fortunately better now, but man I’ve been through it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Some people, they may be high with their cortisol and we have to use adaptogens to calm it down of course, like good diet and lifestyle things, some may be low and typically you don’t just go low all of a sudden. You ten to be on the higher over stimulated side for a while and then you ten to crash and that’s where that low cortisol kind of comes together and with that chronic cortisol, a lot of times we see low DHEA, and DHEA is important because that’s gonna be a precursor to a lot of men and women’s sex hormones and so women will go more down the estrogen side. Men, it will trickle more down testosterone. These are both anabolic hormones and so if we have lower DHEA, that tells us the adrenal issues that are going on are more chronic and DHEA will go downstream to more of these anabolic building up type of hormones so very important to take a look at your DHEA because that could tell you if you’re more catabolic inflamed place. And also too, if you do exercise, I get it if it’s like your first couple of movements, It’s like a new exercise kind of thing, you may be a little bit torqued. It’s new but you shouldn’t be overly sore after your workouts. If it’s a new thing, fine, or it was really you know, an acute hard workout but in general you shouldn’t be overly sore, you know, more than two days or so later. You really shouldn’t, you should still be able to function like maybe you feel it like it feels like you did something but it’s not overly sore if you are um and it was a reasonable amount of exercise, it wasn’t like you did too much you’re probably in a more catabolic state, and it’s also you could be over exercising too. So, you gotta make sure you’re not over exercising.
Evan Brand: Yeah or I’m thinking like what about lactic acid build-up too due to gut bacteria or a mitochondrial issue due to some sort of toxin where they’re just depleted, they’re not recovering well, they’re not performing well. So, maybe not directly related to muscle mass but I think mitochondrial issues could be something to look into. You and I measure this and look at this on an organic acid test and we often find a lot of issues, I mean we’re in a toxic world with a lot of chemicals, metals, pesticides and so these things damage the mitochondria which to me would directly impair your ability to perform. Is it directly reducing muscle mass? If your mitochondria are damaged, I’m not sure on that. I’m sure we could look into it but it makes sense.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep. Absolutely. So, a couple different types of um ways you can build muscle, right, we talked about resistance training is obviously gonna be my favorite, right? So, we can do resistance training that kind of acts like cardio so if we do let’s say three or four movements back-to-back to back-to-back that kind of acts like cardio like or instance if I do like bicep curls, right, this is resistance training, you’re probably not gonna see a big bump in your heart rate which is bicep curls, right? So, there’s resistance training where you’re not getting a cardio effect and it’s resistant training where you’re actually getting a cardio effect. So, just like, people think cardio, like, oh, I’m gonna try them all that’s cardio. It’s well no, you can do exercise that’s resistance and still have a cardio effect. So, if I just did like bicep curls or tried extensions probably not a big cardio effect. Now, if I did like bicep curls and then I paired that with the next exercise, let’s say kettlebell swings, right and then the next exercise being some type of full body row or a lunge, you can see how you start getting more muscle groups involved. Your heart rate starts to go up significantly. So, that’s nice because there’s some benefit if you look at some of the zone two exercise theories that are out. With zone two exercises, essentially, when you’re working at about 60 to 70 percent of your max heart rate so if you’re at typically like you know, typically around if you’re like max heart rate for most people in their 40s or so will be like maybe around usually, it’s 225 minus your age and so if you’re like 40 that’s like what 225 minus 40 would be like what 185 and so you do 185 times 60 or so that should give you then you’re around like typically around 120 or so for your heart rate so they want you to stay around 120 for about 30 minutes. Now, you may find that you kind of have that zone 2 type of benefit while you’re actually doing lifting, if you kind of do it in a circuit fashion, then you choose movements that are more compound, you may find your heart rate stays that high. Now, the benefit of zone two is you get this really nice drop in your resting heart rate. There’s a lot of people that are reporting a lot of their data from like their fitbits or their or rings where they just have a significant drop in the resting heart rate that they wouldn’t necessarily see for like interval training or I’m sorry like a type of a tabata training where you’re like high intensity low, right? So, this kind of steady state thing for 30 minutes, you know, could have some cardiovascular muscle benefits and you may also be able to get some of that like if you do circuit movement so you can, you know, get one of these fitbits and measure your heart rate while you’re doing it and see if you can stay around 120 for that 30 minute phase that kind of put you in that zone two category around 120 or so.
Evan Brand: Very cool. There was a comment in here from Selena, what about muscle wasting with chronic Lyme? Yeah. 100%. Unfortunately, I’ve dealt with Lyme with co-infections from many tick bites over the years and that’s a big big factor because Lyme loves collagen. It really likes to eat up your collagen reserves and then the inflammation it creates, that invites other things like the Bartonella to move in and create more inflammation in your joints. I’m sure that is a big big factor for you. I think you can get better from it. I’ve certainly gained muscle mass even with the infections, I would still throw it in the infection category though. I think the gut infections are a big one too so don’t go all in online and forget the gut bugs because if you’ve got H. pylori, I think that’s a bigger smoking gun for your digestion. Lyme could still wreck you and cause you to lose muscle, I know one of the girls that I used to work with, I saw her recently at a park and she was so skinny, skeleton skinny and she’s had Lyme for like a decade so I know it really affected her in that way but I do think some of that is reversible if you work on the bugs and get your gut better.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And also, people that have Lyme, it’s very rarely it’s just Lyme. It’s like Lyme but then they have, like a ton of dysbiosis, really poor digestion, so it’s usually people are already in this kind of not so great state and then Lyme comes in there and it’s the straw that breaks camel’s back and because it was the thing. They pushed them over the finish line. They just look at Lyme as being the culprit for all of it and therefore, I think it’s all then all they do is focus on that one thing because they think, oh well this is the root cause because this is what happened when everything went sideways and they get myopically focused on just that and then they’re on these crazy herbal antibiotic protocols for years and they don’t fix the other thing so still get back to the basics with your digestion with your, you know addressing the guts, um, really addressing all the stressors, the adrenals, make sure all of that’s kind of dialed in. Also, how did you do with collagen, I mean I found collagen it’s just great for building up that connective tissue because even like in today’s day and age, we’re getting a lot of muscle meat from our protein source, we’re very, we’re not getting enough of our connective tissue or skin or hide or those type of things like the soups and bone broths probably our ancestors used to do. We’re not getting a lot of those amino acids which are really important for connective tissue.
Evan Brand: I do good with it. I do it every day. I do collagen protein every day so it helps man. I don’t have any elbow problems anymore, my knees are better so like my joints are like so much better, my skin is probably better, hopefully that’s helping with the muscle too. She commented that she did have Bartonella and Babesia. So, yeah, that’s a triple whammy, I mean, you gotta keep working on it, I’m not a fan of the antibiotics, this is a topic for another podcast but you had mentioned that you were doing antibiotics and you know that typically causes the Lyme to go into like a cyst form where it hides from the immune system and a lot of people rebound and relapse on that so I prefer herbs.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And also, if you go look at all the antibiotic side effects, they all match Lyme as well and so it’s like joint pain, fever, malaise, and so there’s like you see a lot of these conventional or should I say more natural minded medical doctors like oh that’s just
Herxheimer, that’s like but it’s like you literally are giving something that has the same side effects of the disease you’re trying to treat and so that’s why we tend to like herbal treatments that are more gentle and we’re trying not to hurt and we’re trying to kind of choose a low dose of herbs that are gonna allow us to support the immune system, still have an antimicrobial benefit, we’re still providing a lot of antioxidants and nutrients in the herbs which is the benefit of the herbs and they don’t cause as much mitochondrial damage while we work on everything else. So, we’re still not gonna ignore everything else and we’re gonna find a treatment that makes sense and doesn’t make you feel sicker and have this self-fulfilling prophecy that the side effects actually match the disease that you’re taking.
Evan Brand: No joke. I mean, we do a whole podcast. Let’s do one sometime on this but she said that she was tired of antibiotics, it’s been three years. Yeah. I mean, that’s affecting your gut which is affecting digestion. We know antibiotics damage the mitochondria so if someone had muscle mass and they had done antibiotics, obviously, you got to look at the gut so I would recommend that you do a stool panel. Do organic acids, try to uncover it, somebody said I look like Arnold Schwarzenegger with the beard, I hope that’s a compliment. Thank you.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. There you go. I like it. Very good. So, I hope this helps everyone out of the gate here. I mean, just kind of like start from the basics like all right, so to keep your muscles strong you have to have one not be stressed, right? So, do not put yourself in a catabolic state. Think of like, your adrenals being an overdrive, think of like good sleep, good hydration, good food, allowing yourself to be in a parasympathetic nervous system state. Deep nasal breathing, right, appreciation, gratitude, right, make sure we have good digestive support enzymes, HCl, we’re eating a really healthy anti-inflammatory, nutrient dense, low-toxin template, again, I have some patients that have autoimmune conditions where they have to be even more carnivore because they’re really sensitive to the plant nutrients then after that, looking at all the bottlenecks that could be absorbing things or causing absorption problems in the gut, right, like Evan mentioned, Evan had three Amigos, right, Giardia, Crypto, and H. pylori. And then looking at any of the other bugs there and then of course what types of movements are you gonna do, right? You can start out with just walking if that’s kind of a foundational level then you could start off with some type of a you know circuit training, picking three or four movements and going back-to-back-to-back. You could do some kind of a zone two cardio thing where you do about 30 minutes or so at 120 beats per minute and you can do something non-impact. I like rowing because rowing devices you’re using upper and lower body and you’re putting your body into extension or most of the times on like cardio, you’re kind of like hunched over and like doing your elliptical or you’re running like this or you’re kind of in this flexion state where a rower you’re kind of opening up so that’s kind of cool so those are a couple of tools you know to stimulate the muscles and to um make your heart work as well as make your muscles work.
Evan Brand: I love the rower. Hiking too. I mean, hiking is so easy.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep. Hiking is great.
Evan Brand: I really love it because there’s a lot more variability in your movement as compared to walking on a flat surface so I’m having to like bring my leg up more to go over that rock to go over that tree root like it’s a lot of more leg involved than a flat surface so I love it as long as I’m not getting a tick bite, I’m happy in the woods.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And my favorite functional movements would be like a one-legged squat, uh, it’s excellent and you could just have a chair underneath you where you sit, touch and come back up and you could put up like a phone book on it or something so you don’t have to go all the way down to parallel, uh, a single leg deadlift is excellent and step up. I know, right. I know you can just grab whatever book right. I’m thinking up like the thickest book I could think of right. You know something like that. And then, you could do that and then you could do a step up which is great like on a plyo box and step up. That’s what this is.
Evan Brand: How about, I mean the jumps? Obviously, that’s more intense but man those jump boxes, my God, that’ll, you talk about workout, that’s intense.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Yeah. I mean those plyo boxes are wonderful, I mean, I like is that
Evan Brand: What it’s called the plyo like p yeah how you spell that?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Like P-L-Y-O like a plyometric box
Evan Brand: That’s where you’re jumping up and down up and down?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I actually like going on top of those and then just jumping off and then get into a squat because then you’re teaching your body like I’m generating all this force and I’m trying to absorb it so you’re teaching your body to be a shock absorber like just soak up energy which is great.
Evan Brand: To think about that, that hurts my knee. Thinking about jumping off, I used to, I screwed up my knee years ago though you know, I was jumping off loading docks like behind warehouses when I was a kid with a skateboard and when you bail off the skateboard I would land flat on the concrete, my God. That hurt. That was done.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: No. Totally. But yeah, if you’re putting your joints in that kind of intensity, make sure your form is good. Some people say don’t go knees over toes, there’s a whole knees over toe guy on I think Instagram that talks about knees over toes but if you do that just make sure your form is good and you’re not causing any inflammation. Make sure you have enough protein and collagen, amino acids on board as well so you’re dialed in.
Evan Brand: Yeah. And if you need help please reach out, we work with these issues all the time. We’ll help you investigate what’s going on. You may have this root cause, you may have that root cause, you may have multiple root causes but we’re happy to help find the puzzle pieces because you can’t fix what you can’t find so that’s where we come in, we’re happy to help you with this issue. If you want to reach out clinically, we work around the world with people we’d love to help. You can reach out to Dr. J directly at justinhealth.com and there’s consults available everywhere, lab testing, we can get it to your door. It’s no problem. If you’d like to work out with me, not physically but work out with the labs, let’s do it at evanbrand.com. So, justinhealth.com, evanbrand.com, we’re happy to help.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. We’re here to help and we’ll put some of the products that we talked about like collagen and some of the nutrient support, we’ll put them in the description below so if you wanna access some of the things that we recommend for our family and patients and take ourselves, feel free and access that. All right guys, hope you have a phenomenal day. Take care of you all. Peace.
Evan Brand: See you. Bye-bye.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Bye.
Evan Brand: Bye.
How to Address Sinus Infections Naturally | Podcast #368
A sinus infection, also called sinusitis, is a common problem that causes your sinuses to swell up. The sinuses become inflamed and cause symptoms similar to the common cold. Many people can contract a sinus infection after having a cold or the flu. A bacterial infection usually causes sinus infections, but viruses or fungi can also cause them. These infections can either be acute or chronic.
Dr. J and Evan discuss nasal flushing, which can help clear the mucus out of your sinuses. It is one of the most effective home treatments for a sinus infection. They also emphasized the importance of rest, filtered air system, and other nutrients to boost the immune system.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani
In this episode, we cover:
0:00 – Introduction
2:17 – Nasal flushing products
10:03 – Mucus and nebulizer
16:54 – Sinus anatomy
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: For today’s podcast, we’re gonna be talking about how to address sinus infections naturally with Evan today. Really excited. Good topic here. It’s a common topic that people are experiencing especially in the winter season so we’re gonna go through it. What we gotta do to heal fast from sinus infections naturally. Evan, how are we doing today?
Evan Brand: Hey, doing really well. Why don’t we start with the conventional approach? What is that? If you go to your ENT with a sinus infection, what are they doing?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, it depends, I mean, some are gonna be more antibiotic hesitant and say well you know it could be a viral infection, right? You know, almost a quarter of all antibiotics are actually prescribed for sinus infections. You know that? It’s crazy. So, most of the time, they’ll wait and see how bad it is. See if you have a fever, uh, usually like you have that punch in the face kind of feeling where your teeth are really starting to hurt, chronic headache and then you’re having a fever usually they’re waiting seven to ten days or if it’s gotten better and then gotten worse again and it’s usually seven to ten days out with a fever then they’ll start to, you know, typically prescribe antibiotics. Again, most sinus infections are viral so you know, you have to get to the root cause of that so a lot of times antibiotics won’t work. The problem with antibiotics is you’re swallowing it, it’s going 2 or 3 feet away from the actual issue so you’re basically dropping a systemic bomb to instead of hitting a localized area. Now, there are some more, I would say functional based medical doctors that may do some kind of an antibiotic in a compounded powder like an amoxicillin, something like that in a suspended solution or powder and they put it in a sinus rinse bottle like this and then you can flush your nose with that. Better, right? At least it’s more localized. We’ll talk about some strategies using saline flushes and different things that I recommend to help get that under control, naturally and not have to destroy your microflora in the gut. So, that’s a big thing out of the gates which can be very helpful. I got a sinus infection last week from a viral infection that my kids brought home. I never have been exposed to so many bugs since I have two young kids, 2- and 4-year-old boys that go to an outdoor wilderness school and they bring stuff back home from all their classmates and so I’m getting inoculated every single day and so we’ll talk about some of the strategies that I take so I can recover fast.
Evan Brand: Yeah. I still hear a little bit of you. So, what are you doing? You mentioned you got some kind of tools on your desk there.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. So, couple of things out of the gate, you know, to irrigate or flush that area out can be very very helpful. One, to flushing the viral particulate out. Two, we may add in some components to actually help kill what’s up in the nose as well. So, we have our saline, so you can either do NeilMed saline, which is really good. We’ll put links down below. The Neti Xlear is really great. I’ll kind of go back and forth between those. I have both. And so, we’ll take this and you’ll add eight ounces of water in one of these types of bottles. This is actually the best bottles. It’s made by Xlear. It’s Xlear’s bottle. It’s the best because of the plastic isn’t cheap so when you press it, it recoils really fast so when you’re doing good flushes, sometimes you’re pressing and then you’re having to let it reload so to speak and it’s just a really good plastic. Some of the plastics are weak so then, it kind of just stays sunken in so I also have a NeoMed bottle, definitely a cheaper plastic. And there’s another bottle by Walgreens. It’s even cheaper. So, this one is okay, you know, they give it away with like 60, 70 packets of saline so it’s pretty cheap. It’s a nice bottle. I have like three or four of them lined up in my office sink so when I’m in between patients, I’ll just give it a good flush. And so, we’ll take the saline packet. We’ll mix 8 ounces of water; we’ll add it to it and then I’ll take either food grade hydrogen peroxide. You could do regular hydrogen peroxide from the drug store. It’s not as big of a deal if you’re nebulizing it. Again, it you’re flushing it, if you’re nebulizing it, you probably wanna go more food grade just to make sure any stabilizers are out. And then, I typically just fill it up just enough to cover the bottom part of the cap. That’s it. Just about that.
Evan Brand: That’s like a dash. I mean just a tiny amount.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And you know, you went too much if you put it into the water and then I would just pour it into the saline, my finger over and just shake it up and then you know you did too much if you feel any kind of irritation or burn. You can so you can always start less and kind of work your way up and then if you do too much you can just add a little bit more water to it and back off so that’s a good option right there. Another option I have is I’ll do like my GI clear 3 silver and I’ll add a cap full of that to it. You can do that. You can add just straight up betadine iodide. I’ve stopped doing that because of the orange color. It just stains. It’s really annoying so I’ll go to, like, a clear simple potassium iodine which is good. Those are a couple good options out of the gates and so we’ll basically irrigate 2 to 3 seconds of flow, clear everything out and blow your nose in between. 2 to 3 seconds of flow below your nose. That’s a good way to do it out of the gate. Now, there’s a couple of other strategies that you can do, so some of my sinus sprays that I’ll use and so I have 3 big sprays so here’s extra rescue which is really a good one because it has six different herbs in there. It has, like pau d’arco, parsley, eucalyptus, oil of oregano, tea tree, right, so it’s really good. Six different herbs and so what I’ll typically do out of the gates if you’re new to using the product. I’ll do it, about 2 sprays in each nose, about ten minutes before a sinus flush. What I find is, it starts to, like, agitate and release all the mucus. That’s kind of stuck to the inside of the sinus cavity and so like five to ten minutes before spray it, wait, and then do a sinus flush. I find that it releases things a lot better. So, that’s really good there. And once you’re better with it and you feel more comfortable, you can do it after as well. Just see how you feel. If you’re really, really inflamed too, there’s another product called Xlear max, which is a good one.
Evan Brand: I’ve never tried that one. I’m scared of that one.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Well, the rescue one, I think, is like the strongest form, like a killing perspective. The Xlear max is more, like anti-inflammatory. So, the big difference is, this, the last one was grapefruit by the way and the Rescue.
Evan Brand: Okay.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And so in the max, the difference is it still has the same saline, still has the same xylitol. So, this has xylitol plus six herbs, okay, saline. This says xylitol saline, the difference is it has aloe so it’s a little bit more soothing, all right, for the sinus. It has the grapefruit as well, which, so it still has some killing effects in it and it has some capsicum which is like a homeopathic anti-inflammatory. So, this is like, if you’re like the tissue is really inflamed, really raw, this is a better one. This one’s really good for killing because of the different herbs that are in there. And then, there’s a regular one out there. I have it upstairs, as well, which is the regular Xlear and that’s more like people that have chronic sinus issues, you can use that more every day and it’s a little bit more gentle where it’s just the xylitol and the grapefruit extract and it has the saline and again the benefit of that, the xylitol, it really kind of knocks down some of the bacteria that could be there. It prevents biofilms from adhesions so biofilms are like the protective shields that a lot of the bacteria used to protect against the bugs. So, that’s very helpful. And so, the nice thing is if you do the saline, right? Oh, by the way, the water reverse osmosis or distilled, make sure it’s high quality filtered water. Do not use your general tap water, very bad, so make sure it’s really good. Don’t even use, like, river water, it’s gotta be really good clean filtered water. Like even now and then, I’ll use the water out of my faucet because I have a whole house activated charcoal system so it’s still good but I also have a RO system where my countertop is, so that’s where we cook in and drink out of that water so I use that 99% of the time. So, I’ll use that, I’ll add the packet, fill it up to 8 ounces, pack it and then I’ll add either hydrogen peroxide or silver. It’s good to have a couple that you rotate through just in case there’s some resistance which is, you know, meaning like there’s some bacteria or viral resistance. It’s going to have a couple of things there and then I also have just a straight grapefruit and saline solution as well. This one is okay. It’s gentle and so those are good ways to do it. I recommend, start to do it before you flush like 5-10 minutes before because a lot of times it just releases a lot of mucus and then it allows the flush to do really well and then depending on how you feel afterwards, you can also try it after a flush and then give it a sprayer. So, once everything’s really clean and see how you do afterwards. So that’s a good start out of the gates. Of course things like N-acetylcysteine are wonderful. NAC is great. That helps with the inflammation. Really helps drying up the sinuses. I’ll do glutathione, as well. I’ll do high-dose vitamin C. We’ll add in some different nutrients, zinc, those kinds of things as well. All the good immune nutrients, vitamin D decrease all the sugar consumption. A lot of that is very very helpful. I also have a red light in the office and so I’ll kind of go up against it and let the red light get in there because that’s very anti-inflammatory as well.
Evan Brand: Man, I should have paid better attention to the label on that Max. I was afraid of that one because I thought that one was more intense than the rescue. I’ve done the Rescue forever. I kind of like the berm. You will get a little burn with that Rescue one but the way you talk that Max is actually more soothing than the Rescue. The Rescue is more hardcore so I need to try the Max, I’ve never experimented with it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I think the big thing in the Max is just people are already, like more inflamed because there’s less killers in there, it’s grapefruit. It’s got the same sodium chloride, it’s got the aloe which is soothing and that has the Capsicum. I’ll do that right now actually.
Evan Brand: That’s very cool and the question came in about colloidal silver so in some of the rinses you could do a little bit of silver. We, also, have talked about it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I already talked about that so I said you can do the hydrogen peroxide, add it or like I’ll do my nano silver like my GI Clear 3 or some kind of a silver so you’d add like a dropper or 2 worth of silver in there which is what I have for there. So, you can do silver, you can do hydrogen peroxide and you can also do some iodine. Those are your three good ones that you could do. You could also throw in like someone in the chat wrote about like oil of oregano or tea tree or something of that. Maybe overkill if you’re already using the Rescue afterwards or before because you’re already adding that to it.
Evan Brand: Yeah. And so, we could do that in a nebulizer protocol too, so if we’re doing a hydrogen peroxide or a glutathione or a silver nebulizer that could be another sinus support.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. The problem with the nebulizer, I find it’s just, it’s deeper, it’s better for, like lower respiratory stuff. The problem with, like the mucus that comes out of the nose, it’s very tarry. It’s very sticky, right? And so, what is the mucus? Well, you have one just mucus which is clear which is like your body trying to flush bacteria or virus out and then you have the immune system interacting with the infection and then the dead soldiers, right, of that fight, that battle are essentially all the green and yellow and so the more dead soldiers, right, the more battle we go from like light yellow to yellow to darker yellow to green, right? So, the darker, right, and the, the more chunky the mucus is, the more there’s an immune fight happening up there and so what happens is, you have, you know not that, this is the best analogy I can think of is you have all these dead soldiers from the immune reaction just like sitting up there and sticking all to the sinus cavity preventing breathing oxygen exchange and also some of that can eventually go down the eustachian tubes which connects to the back which can go to your ears then you can start to get an ear infection and all that dead debris can also become like fertilizer for like a bacterial infection down the road. So, you got to get it out. So the problem with nebulizer, it’s in a vapor form so it doesn’t have the ability to push the junk out and so with a nice bottle like this pressurized, you can come in there and you can really pull all that stuff out and push it out where you’re not gonna get that with a nebulizer so your nebulizer is gonna be, you can still do it, I still did it daily but it’s gonna be better for lower respiratory issues and this have all the same stuff in it a nebulizer will, the difference you’ll have the pressurized force behind it to really get it out. Push it out. That’s the difference. And there’s some like I mean there’s sometimes, I mean I won’t get graphic but like I’ll blow my nose I’m good right? I’m good, go flush it out and then there’s twice the amount of junk left behind after the flush that was that what I couldn’t get out through blowing and so you get a much deeper cleanse of the sinus cavity with this because a lot of times you’re getting stuff out literally in this upper forehead area in here and so you’re just getting a lot better release.
Evan Brand: Yeah, you mentioned NAC already, which NAC got banned from amazon so if you need access to it, Justin seems on your store, I believe I’ve got a glutathione NAC combo. I do not have an NAC by itself. What do you do, do you have something to offer there?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. We have different products like in my line have a detox amino product that has more other stuff in it. I just have a straight NAC here. I’ll go, there’s a couple of brands that I’ll go back to before, in between 90% are out so a lot of times I just have to get brands right now. That I typically wouldn’t get if we had a better supply chain with NAC right now but yeah we’ll put a link down below anyone needs NAC, they can reach out to the office but to highlight back on what you’re saying there, NAC is super helpful and then also there’s a Nasaline you can get which is like a pressurized syringe which is great. So, you suck up the saline from the bottle, it’s like a syringe, you put it up against your nose and you press it, that’s helpful. Also, I find too if things are really stuck, sometimes you need to go like pulsations so you need to like squeeze hard, relax, squeeze hard, relax, squeeze hard, relax because I find that the pulsation sometimes will free up some of these mucus that’s really tarry and sticky so that can be very very helpful.
Evan Brand: Knock on wood, I never ever get sinus infections.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I don’t either. It’s my first time.
Evan Brand: I don’t know what to, what to attribute them to like you said is it an exposure, is it a weak immune system, is there a gut connection to it?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s just part of the viral infection so viruses tend to go in two major areas. They go upper respiratory or lower respiratory, right? So, a viral infection that goes too deep can eventually become pneumonia. A viral infection here can become a major sinus infection and so by being on top of this, you have your tools, your sinus flush is your best for your upper respiratory, your nebulizer is best for your lower respiratory and so you can prevent those things once you have viral infection, it’s replicating it creating inflammation. You could prevent these things from going too far with those tools.
Evan Brand: Well, that’s a great point you just made which is the possibility of it turning into pneumonia so people listening are like well why should I care, why should I try to do this and speed the process up, why should I try to intervene? Well, because you don’t want to create more systemic inflammation or lead to something more serious especially in a person who’s 80 years old or above, you know, that could create much more problems if they didn’t treat it while it was just up here and it went further south.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah and if someone’s sick and they’re trying to prevent it, I think two to three flushes a day is good for, like, prevention especially while you’re sick. I think it can’t hurt just doing straight saline rinse once a day in general. I wouldn’t add any killers or anything to it. Just a straight saline. I think it is fine, just to kind of keep your nose clean at the end of the day. You wanna do that, I think it’s fine. If you’re sick, I’m going like every hour or two, I’m flushing my nose out just because at one it feels really good. It’s really clean and just as long as you’re not irritating the mucus, you know, its isotonic solution, so you have like the sodium, the chloride, it has the bicarbonate in here. Those are the two major compounds, right? Like sodium chloride is basically your sea salt, right? And then, you have your bicarbonate in there. So those are the two major ingredients and then of course this is like USP grade so it’s just really really clean.
Evan Brand: And what do you mean by that? For people listening, what you’re saying is that pH balance so it’s not gonna irritate your sinus cavity.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. You can’t just take regular, like, clean water and put it in your nose. If you will absolutely burn it and irritate it. It would feel like someone punched you in the face because the mucous membranes need a certain pH and a certain level of sensitivity so it’s kind of like using eye drops, right? Same thing. You need to have, like, saline-based eye drops. This is, you’re using sodium chloride. Pharmaceutical grade plus the bicarbonate which is baking soda. That’s everything nice and balanced for the tissues. So, when you flush it, it shouldn’t irritate the sinuses and it should have allow it too feel nice and smooth and gentle afterwards and then if you have some kind of infection brewing even preventative for a bug just add a little bit of silver or hydrogen peroxide in there or a couple of drops, you know, some iodine that’ll give you enough killing capacity to knock down any bugs that could be multiplying but I’m going every hour or two, for me it just feels really good very soothing. It feels like plus if you blow your nose too much, you just keep your nose all raw around the side so it’s nice to have a nice clean flush. I kind of call it like, it’s like a bidet for your nose. It’s kind of how I look at it.
Evan Brand: That’s hilarious. You know, this would be a good strategy for travel too. So, if you need something portable like the excellent Rescue. If you’re on a plane or after you get off a plane it’d be a good idea to boom boom do a couple of sprays that’ll be great.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, also, amazing for kids. Kids cannot honk their nose, blow their nose or the damn right. They just cannot get a good blow in there and you get these things on the market like a nose Frida which you know we have one you get like that deep in the cavity. We’ll do the whole nose Frida for you to think about the nose and then we’ll do this with my kids, flush it out and you’ll see so much junk come out. This is how kids get ear infections right? If you look at sinus anatomy, once you go up this far, there’s this canal, right here that goes straight to the ears and it’s called the eustachian tube and with kids it’s a little bit flatter a delta kind of angles up a little bit so it’s harder to get things uphill with kids because it’s a little bit flatter so it’s easy for the mucus and the junk to go into the ear and then you have an ear infection and of course like if your kids are getting ear issues to the food, sugar and of course high dairy products are gonna create more mucus, more mucus in the sinus cavity can make their way and so if your kids are more mucusy, one make the diet changes but two get their nose cleaned out as well so it doesn’t travel to the ear and this is why you want the mucus cleared up because if you let all the mucus and all this coagulation of all the immune soldiers so to speak, stay up there, it can make its way to the nose and now you have an ear infection.
Evan Brand: Yeah. Good point about the diet. I know we got to run here in a minute or two but that’s a good point about the diet if you are looking for like preventative maintenance strategies, I mean obviously you can’t just live in a bubble and not get exposed to things but you wanna have the good foundation of your diet to reduce inflammation, I mean so many people come in and say they have quote sinus problems, really it appears that they’re food allergies because once they clean up their diet, they get rid of gluten, they get rid of dairy all of a sudden their sinus is clear.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And people have, like, allergies to the environment. One, have a really good high quality air filter. We recommend the Austin air because it has the activated charcoal, the Zeolite plus the Hepa. Hepa is, like, usually standard in most if you’re on a budget. You know, go with the Hepa to start but definitely get one that has an activated charcoal, Zeolite, the Austin air, the filter lasts five years per replacement so you don’t have to spend as much money replacing it every six months and the activated charcoal and the zeolite filters out more toxins but I’ll tell patients like you know, do a flush you know in the morning when you get up, do one after you’re outside working and then do one before bed. Just the saline’s fine. You could do a little bit of spray, you know, before or after. Try before that’s helpful but just try to get the allergen out especially before bed because if you have all these allergens way up here and they’re creating inflammation that could be a stress response during sleep that’s preventing you from deeper restorative sleep and so the sinus can be flush really helpful along with some of the uh some of the remedies that we have here.
Evan Brand: It’s a good call. Well, if people need help, they can reach out. You can book a consultation with Dr. J at justinhealth.com. So, if you have sinus issues or other health symptoms, you wanna talk, see what’s going on, see if we can help that would be justinhealth.com for Dr. J, or if you need help from me, that’s Evan, evanbrand.com. We’re available worldwide. So, most of these products we can get and we can ship to you. I know a lot of people internationally have trouble getting some of this stuff, silver and NAC. Some countries are just weird and it’s hard to import stuff but usually we have. Our team is great with logistics. So, I think it’s good to just have a stash of this stuff if you don’t already, don’t wait till you get the sinus infection then try to order, get it. Get it now. Get it, get prepped.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: They have a bottle of it there. Someone said, can you do too much of it. I would say it depends, right. I would say, if you have an active infection, I think you’re gonna be fine just make sure the water is clean, RO high quality water. Make sure you’re using a good quality sodium bicarb, I think if the killers are making you more sensitive, right? You could always do your spray or killers before and then do the just the saline without anything in it after so then everything’s clean and flushed out so then you don’t have anything overly abrasive in your sinus after the fact, that’s a good way to do it and if that’s still a problem you could even, you could even just do a saline flush and not anything else after that. It’s still better than nothing just to get everything out of the sinus cavity but worst case do your spray before and then afterwards just the flush. And they have spray that are just silver too, so you have, I have a silver spray too. You can just do that, I’ll do that for my kids sometimes because they’ll complain about it like just the feeling it’s a tiny tinge of a burn for like 10 seconds and so I’ll do the silver sometimes with them. Oh by the way, my kid had a pink eye issue, used to silver spray, opened his eye up, I just like this, I went, gone in two days. So, silver is excellent for some of the pink eye stuff, I would never do it with this. That would burn but the silver is good. I hope that makes sense. Any other questions about that so far?
Evan Brand: I think we got most of the questions answered here, there was one question about getting mucus after food and these were things like yogurts, ice cream, soy sauce, wheat products, well yeah, I mean it sounds like food allergy so obviously I would clean up your diet. I don’t recommend any of those foods, maybe if it’s like a coconut cream ice cream with low sugar maybe but beyond that all of those foods to me sound like potential irritants.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Sugar and inflammatory foods, especially excess sugar and inflammatory foods will cause mucus, that’s part of the inflammatory response, that’s just part of it. Yep. That’s part of the reason why people have sinus infections outside of just getting upper respiratory tract viral issues.
Evan Brand: Yeah. Absolutely. How many people are going to the ENT and getting a paleo diet prescription, probably not many.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: No, and there just gonna recommend steroids, Flonase, steroids, antihistamine, they’re not really ever get to the root cause that’s the problem and so It’s really good that people are bringing these things to the light, you know, this guy Dr. Mehta, I think it’s Dr. the NeilMed guy, he’s really been on top of it, which is great. I mean this is an MD that’s talking about using really good options to clean out your nose and then you know having more of these sprays together is really good and having things that can add to them, I mean, just amazing and a lot of these viruses live in your nose so preventatively we can be on top of it, you’re out with a bunch of people, you know, instead of being overly worried about washing your hands which you know, that’s fine, wash your hands but flush your nose, easiest thing, flush your nose.
Evan Brand: Totally more valuable in my opinion for sure.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. So guys, to reach out to Evan, evanbrand.com. Evan is available worldwide for health consultation support. I am as well, Dr. J, justinhealth.com, we are here to help you out. We’ll put some links here. Give us a little bit of time. I’ll put the links down below very soon so you can see some of the products that we use. Also, we’ll put some of the products that we recommend from our own store so you guys can get an idea of what we like. All right, any questions feel free to put them in the chat. We appreciate it. Share with family and friends, they could benefit and have a phenomenal day. Take care.
Evan Brand: Take care. See you next week.
The Gut Connection With Urinary Tract infections (UTI) and Yeast Infections | Podcast #367
Urinary tract infections (UTIs) are a common medical problem affecting millions of people worldwide. The primary source for UTIs is presumed to be the gut. That’s why in this video, Dr. J and Evan talk about how gut bacteria can contaminate the urethral opening, eventually propagate themselves in the bladder, and cause symptoms of a UTI and possible yeast infection.
They also added that women are significantly more likely to get UTIs than men. It is due to anatomical differences that make it easier for disease-causing bacteria to travel to the urinary bladder after accidental transfer from the bowels. They also discuss the other clinical and evidence-based factors with helpful tests to find the root cause of these issues.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani
In this episode, we cover:
0:00 – Introduction
1:53 – Urinary System
10:54 – Antimicrobials and probiotics
18:55 – UTI and Yeast Infection
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excited to be here with Evan Brand. Today, we are gonna be chatting all about the gut connection with urinary tract issues, UTIs and yeast infections. Really excited to dive into this topic. This is the common female topic that we deal with. I mean, men deal with UTIs as well but men have a longer urethra area so it’s harder for men to have UTIs with them. Women have a much shorter urethra so bacteria can make its way up to the urinary tract and blood much faster and easier and so probably more of a female issue but we’re gonna dive in. The physiology is similar between the two so men listening will still get something of it as well. Evan, how are we doing today?
Evan Brand: Hey, doing really well. And so, looks like about 90% of infection in the bladder, 90% of these cases of these infections of bladder, urethra and kidneys, it’s all related to E. coli, which of course E. coli are in your poop and can generally just take route up that way and they can migrate and populate within the urinary tract and so women obviously know these symptoms if they’ve had it but it’s you have to urinate more frequently, it’s painful urination. It could be pressure in the pubic area. It could be fatigue. It could go more severe into kidney injury but most women are usually so miserable before they get to that point that they end up doing some sort of conventional treatment. So, why don’t we just talk about the conventional approach because I think it’s great to highlight what people are doing and then what we’re doing differently that we may argue is a far more sustainable solution without the side effects. Antibiotics are gonna be huge and we’ve got some statistics on this. Antibiotics are prescribed for 33% of women to combat a UTI before the age of 24 but of course these synthetic antimicrobials are not without short- and long-term consequences.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’m gonna just share one thing here on screen just so everyone can see. So, you can see the female anatomy, right here is the urethra, here’s the bladder so you can see a very short distance from the urethra to the bladder. You can see here in the male anatomy, right at a much longer distance to get up here. Obviously in the urinary tract, you’re just typically with the UTI, it’s the bacteria that’s making its way up here, okay, into the urinary tract that’s causing the infection like Evan already mentioned that’s mostly gonna be bacteria, right? Usually on the UTI side, it’s gonna be E. coli there, can be some Pseudomonas, it’s mostly E. coli. And so, it’s really easy for women to get bladder infection because you can see it goes up faster. Again, things like birth control pills we’ll talk about and antibiotics really shift the urinary pH and the intestinal pH which has a major effect on the bladder and the urinary tract and it makes it easier for bacteria to grow that tends to be why women are a little bit more susceptible than that for bladder infection obviously but in general you’re gonna see that with birth control pills because how estrogen affects the pH and then also women when they menstruate, right, just that whole vaginal area right there, sloughing off that endometrial lining. All that blood flow does shift that whole entire are to be way more alkaline because bloods around 7.3 pH so it does shift that whole vaginal tract to be more pH higher on the pH side which can increase other bacterial infections more on the vaginal side but hopefully that helps. Any comments on that, Evan?
Evan Brand: Yeah. It’s totally interesting and this is stuff that maybe you didn’t pay attention to in school and biology class but now in adulthood it’s a lot more important and I think people just don’t even understand the anatomy of it and this is something that according to the research here, 25% of people treated for UTI, they will experience a recurrence 6 – 12 months later. So, I mean, that’s a quarter of these people that now have another UTI and they just go on this merry-go-round. And of course, every time you go on these antibiotics, you’re damaging the mitochondria, you’re damaging your gut microbiome in total, so it’s not just this one thing that you’re doing, it’s the sum to your system and it can really add up.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, when we deal with urinary tract issues, I kind of look at, okay, you have yeast issues over here. They’re kind of, they intermingle right and how the different things happen. You have bacterial issues over here, right? So, your UTI issues are primarily bacterial, right, affecting the urinary tract. You can have BV, bacterial vaginosis, that’s another bacterial issue. Usually, Gardnerella bacteria is one that’s affecting the vaginal canal. So, a little bit different, right? Different, you know, same general area, different anatomy per se. You’re gonna have similar sequelae of tissues affecting it, right? The big difference with the BV issue is you’re gonna get the potassium hydroxide odor which is, that’s kind of the fish smell. That’s what the bacteria in the vaginal canal does, it creates that potassium hydroxide that’s the fish odor. You’re not gonna quite get the odor with the UTI but you will have the burning during peeing. So, that’s gonna be the big differentiating factor. Sometimes, more odor on the BV but sometimes you can have none and then of course more pain during urination on the urinary tract issue and then if that continues to be left up that bacteria will eventually continue to go north and eventually hit the bladder as you can see that anatomy pretty short on video here. But, one of the big common issues is I would say like the big three, anytime I look at this problem, they tend to be the same. It’s gonna be a combination of antibiotic use so we’re wiping out a lot of the good flora in our intestinal tract which also affects the vaginal or urinary microbiome and then that affects the beneficial probiotics that actually make hydrogen peroxide like probiotics usually make hydrogen peroxide which is antibacterial. They’ll make different acids, glucuronic acid, they’ll make acidic acid. Different acid acids that actually help keep the microbes in check. They make hydrogen peroxide H202 and it keeps a lot of the bad bugs down. So, the first thing is we have a wiping out of the beneficial flora that also drive yeast overgrowth too so the same thing where it wipes out the good stuff, the beneficial probioflora, the probiotics the Bifidobacter, the Lactobacillus. The different species within the Bifidobacter and Lactobacillus, right? There’s Rudaea, casei, plantarum, lactis, these are all beneficial species, okay, that keeps the bacteria in check but also when you knock down a lot of the good stuff that can also causes this rebound overgrowth and yeast and that’s a lot of doctors today even on the conventional side tend to give an antifungal after an antibiotic in a lot of these female patients because they see a lot of these symptoms happen frequently.
Evan Brand: Wow. And, you’re mentioning the antibiotic that starts this whole cascade and that’s not necessarily the antibiotic to treat an existing UTI and then we’re talking about these recurring UTIs. We’re talking antibiotics for something simple like, I’ve heard of some women going in for a dental cleaning or something just that seems benign and then boom the antibiotic just really had forced them to take another fork in the road with their gut health and of course the vaginal health is affected.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. Now, with urinary tract issues, I mean they’re simple things, right? Sometimes, just after intercourse, after sex, just not peeing. Sometimes that sperm and the semen being up there can kind of create some issues with bacteria so urinating after sex can be very helpful. You’ll see it with younger kids just wiping the wrong direction, right, essentially wiping back to front bringing some of the bacteria in the stool into that urinary vaginal area can be a problem. Sometimes different contraceptive methods like that involve, like a spermicidal intravaginally can sometimes mess up the milieu of flora in the vaginal tract. Having bladder stones or kidney issues can sometimes have problems, going in for a surgical procedure where they put in some of a catheter, you know, those are, you know, gonna be way unlikely but you know just kind of given the gamut of those across the board. And then of course, you know, the antibiotic exposure and I would even say just too much sugar, too much carbohydrate, a lot of bacteria like acellular easy to digest refined processed carbs. So, more carbohydrates, more sugar, more grains, more flours are definitely gonna work, you know, increase those microbes’ kind of having a feeding frenzy if you will.
Evan Brand: And, how can you find this out? Well, there’s an easy to do at home test that you can buy for less than 10 bucks. You can do these test strips at home. These urinary test strips and if generally, you see a dark purple, you’ve got a big issue and so it’s something that people should have on hand if you’ve suffered for a while. I know a lot of women; they just hate having to go to the doctor’s office and get tested and then they leave with another antibiotic and then they’re on this merry-go-round. So, we talked about the conventional approach, they really as far as it goes antibiotics
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, with the test strips, I think most of them are primarily looking at either immune cell in the urinary tract. I think, a lot of times with yeast or bacteria. They’re looking for, like leukocytes or leukocyte esterase, they’re looking for bacteria or I’m sorry immune cells in there. I know, some of the yeast ones are looking at pH so they’re looking at a more alkaline type of pH. The more alkaline the pH moves from six to seven to neutral, right, neutral is around 7. Into the 7-ish range, that tends to say that okay we have more yeast issues or we’re starting to move back in the direction of bacteria if we’re starting to see some of these leukocytes moving into the urinary tract.
Evan Brand: Yes. It’s kind of an indirect marker, right? You’re looking at those leukocytes and that’s what you would be seeing in terms of like, the light purple, dark purple, extreme purple on the test strips.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. So, they’re looking at the immune system starting to come in there and obviously with a BV issue, bacterial vaginosis. They probably need a swab to see what’s going on there, see if it’s like a Gardnerella or a Pseudomonas or Klebsiella, you know, what the bacterial species is. Now, typically with yeast issues in the urinary tract, I’m sorry with, uh, yeast infections primarily gonna be Candida or Candida subspecies. With BV, it’s primarily Gardnerella and with UTI’s it’s gonna be E. coli, typically.
Evan Brand: Now here is the cool part. Are you ready to talk about some of the transitions you hit on the diet piece of a bit of sugar process things? Maybe we should hit this first and then we’ll talk about, like, the functional strategies that kind of thing. You and I were talking about this before we hit the record that so many people, they want the solution to an issue like this but they haven’t even got the foundation styled in, in regards to their sleep, in regards to stress, proper hydration, nutrient density, lack of antibiotics if possible. Just those foundational pieces, a lot of times, are gonna keep women in a place where they’re not gonna end up with this problem so if you’re just tuning in, somehow you found us and you’ve not been listening for a while and you’re just now hearing us and you’re looking for this magic remedy, you got to make sure you get the foundations in order first because in theory, this should not happen if you’ve got the foundation style then.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Correct and so first thing out of the gates is just foundational things like hydrating enough because if you have a UTI issue just having constant good water flow and also you know with some electrolytes in the water that can be very helpful kind of having an antibacterial effect. And just keeping that good water flowing, the solution to pollution is dilution so that can really kind of keeping things flushed down. Obviously, being very careful if you’re having antibiotics. Why did you have the antibiotics? Was it for routine preventative things? Was your diet off and your immune system’s weak and you got sick and you needed it? Why, right? So, you want to look at that and if you had chronic antibiotic use, you know, what does the bacteria in your gut look like because odds are, if your bacteria or yeast imbalances are present in the vaginal tract or the urinary tract, you probably, also have issues in the digestive tract. You may have SIBO, you may have bloating, you may have gas, you may have poor digestion, low enzymes, low acids, H. pylori, parasite infection, you may have to look deeper in the intestinal tract and actually work on knocking down some of those microbes fixing the gut and then really work on repopulating some of the good bacteria after the fact to really work on fixing the gut because you start to fix the gut pH and the gut bacterial milieu that does help improve IgA levels and that does help with the immune system in the vaginal area as well.
Evan Brand: Yeah. Well said. So, if you’re coming in with the UTI, most of the time, there’s gonna be more than just a UTI present. There could be as you mentioned a number of, we have someone coming in and UTI or recurrent UTI is one of their complaints, I can tell you, you and I are gonna wanna run the stool panel and we’re gonna run organic acids because we’re gonna want to look at the whole microbiome and certain things may get missed on the stool and the urine should feel in the gaps like we might find Candida in the urine and it got missed in the stool. So, stool and urine, there are things that your typical doctor and your lab locally is not gonna run. They might run a urine panel but this is not the same urine panel as an organic acid, we’re talking something far more advanced, far more comprehensive whereas the urine panel, locally, is primarily just gonna look for bacteria or maybe leukocytes as you mentioned you might get a positive or a trace or something like that but it’s not a detailed description of what’s going on you mentioned several bacteria too, like Klebsiella and Prevotella, we can identify this on a stool panel. So, that’s why it’s so important to get the data and could we just throw a woman on an herbal UT formula, we could but you know, we want to do our due diligence, we want to do a good work-up on these people too to make sure that we’re not just cut straight to the chase and we skip something huge that we would find on these tests.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right. I mean a lot of the antibiotics they’re gonna be using are gonna be like Bactrim or any of these kinds of, um, Mors, Augmentin’s a big one. Bactrim and Augmentin, those are a couple definitely be very wary of any of the fluoroquinolone families because they have significant side effects regarding tensing tendons and ligaments and mitochondria so be really careful of using fluoroquinolones. Of course, when we work these patients up, we’re doing a really good history so we understand how everything came to fruition regarding the UTI, yeast infection or bacterial vaginosis. We’re trying to understand it, right? Obviously, with certain things like yeast infections, BV, like making sure things are dry in that area. If you’re in a very moist environment keeping things dry helps because yeast and mold love a very moist environment. So, keeping things dry tends to be very helpful. Soaping up some of those areas you’d be very helpful too that you can use a really nice, um, as long as the mucosa is not like really, um, irritable, you can really use a really nice sulfur soap especially in the outside air if there’s anything yeasty on the outside are, anything internally. There are definitely internal things that we can do. So, on the internal side, just getting water in there, maybe helpful using raw cranberry juice, not anything with added sugar but raw organic cranberries, you know, 4 ounces at a time diluted some water is pretty good. You can drink that. That’s gonna have a nice low pH in it, which helps prevent the bacteria from growing. It also helps with some D-mannose in the cranberries. Can also internally do things like different berberines, can be very helpful, that’s excellent boric acids, another excellent compound. You gotta be careful with these by, enlarged by itself because they can be a little bit irritating so you want some nice things that provide some moisture whether it’s aloe or shea butter. There’s different, like moisture compounds that can provide the moisture so you don’t dry out that tissue as well.
Evan Brand: You know, how about some of the suppositories. Have you used those before? I’ve seen some of these like pH suppositories, those have been helpful, also I think it’s integrative, I know Aviva Romm did a talk or an article on it one time. There was a specific probiotic that we had used, I think, it was called pro-flora that we had used, uh, that was supposed to be inserted vaginally and that was like a game changer for BV and some other related issues. So, not only taking oral probiotics but vaginal probiotics as well. That has been a game changer for many women. It’s not something we have to go to a lot but it is a good tool if someone just in bad shape and the conventional strategies failed them or made them worse then something like these vaginal probiotics are helpful. So just to be clear, there’s some strains specifically for vaginal health that are taken orally but then there’s also other blends that you can insert vaginally and the women have reported great success with those.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. You want to make sure the hydration is there, whether it’s aloe or beeswax or shea butter or coconut oil, some of those can be helpful. Again, the antimicrobials that we may use would be the boric acid, some of the neem, some of the different berberines. And again, we may want to also add probiotics in and around there that can be very helpful. In regards to, like yeast issues or, um, UTI issues, you got to be very careful because when you women menstruate, well more with yeast and more bacterial vaginosis because that’s affecting the vaginal canal more. When women menstruate, that blood is like 7.3, right? So, that’s very neutral to alkaline. So, when you’re menstruating, you’re taking that acidic pH in the vaginal tract and you’re moving it backup to a more neutral pH when you menstruate so that’s gonna actually make it easier for bacteria and potential yeast to grow and you could have a BV issue or yeast issue that can happen due to your menstruation. So, when you’re already more susceptible in that vaginal area, you know, you gotta, you may actually wanna do a suppository in and around your period too, because that pH is gonna move up and that can start to cause microbes to grow. Some women have to be more careful with that, you know, if they have a chronic yeast or bacterial issue just to make sure it doesn’t come back.
Evan Brand: I want to hit a few more herbs and then I want you to riff on the birth control conversation because I think that’s huge. So, you mentioned berberine and some of the other related herbs. Also, we’ll use the antifungals at the same time. So, you and I have our own custom blends that we use and so we may use something like Pau D’arco, French tarragon, horse tail, olive leaf, things that have antifungal and antimicrobial properties. So, that’s the cool thing about what we do is as you mentioned Backstrom or some of these other conventional strategies. It’s just a big sledgehammer, right? It’s not a targeted tool. It’s one sledgehammer. We don’t know exactly what we’re gonna kill but it’s an antibiotic, were just gonna drop the nuclear bomb into your gut and we’re gonna disturb not only your gut microbiome, we’re gonna negatively affect the production of your nutrients in your gut. We’re gonna negatively affect your mitochondria. We may knock out the UTI but as you saw in the papers, 25% of those UTIs are gonna come back within 6 months to a year and so when we’re coming in with these antimicrobial herbs, also, throwing in antifungal herbs, that’s where the magic really happens because there could be a combination as we talked about. It’s rare to see just UTI, it could be a combination issue meaning there’s some Candida, there’s some bacterial problems, maybe there’s parasites in the gut too. Maybe there’s H. pylori like you mentioned. And so, that’s the fun part is when you take a blend and you’re working people through this protocol. You’re now knocking 4,5,6 issues out all at once in one fell swoop when they originally just came in with the complaint of UTI. When you do the labs, you wanna uncover so much more and that’s where the beauty is.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. Here’s one study here looking at the perceptions using contraception birth control pills. So, usually this is like a synthetic estrogen mostly, right, an ethanol, estradiol. I’m looking at the influence on the vaginal microbiota and so really the take home here inside of the gate, the vaginal state was significantly modified hormone administration apparently corrected the alterations uh, but has the potential of being an accurate tool. Where is it? Right here, um, there it is, I’m sorry. Statistically significant association between, this is, um, this is contraception and normal microbiota was observed after three months when the vaginal microbiome was modified at 6 months inflammatory reaction was detected in almost half of the women. So, only seven women but you can, it created an inflammatory state in the vaginal microbiota and then also yeast colonization was increased and it created an inflammatory reaction in three out of seven women and it altered some of the beneficial bacteria in the vaginal area. Now, small study but you can see, you know, three out of seven, it affected this and this is what we see clinically with a lot of our female patients is some of these things can be affected because it’s affecting: one, it’s creation; two, it’s causing yeast to grow impacting some of the good bacteria and how does it do this, it does it mostly via LDH. If you alter someone’s digestive pH, right, let’s say you give them a proton pump inhibitor, you’re gonna have all kinds of digestive issues and maybe even nutrient deficiencies that can affect things long term. Obviously, with birth control pills, there’s other things they do, they can create issues with nutrient absorption or they can cause nutrient deficiencies in areas of B vitamins, folate and also calcium and magnesium. So, we see a lot of women that do birth control pills have a lot of those nutrient problems. So, if you’re on a birth control pill, ideally, it’s better to use something that’s more barrier based or if you want to set it and forget it method, you know, potentially looking at the ParaGard which is a copper IUD, you just have to make sure you can handle the copper. I find if you want to set it or forget that the copper tends to be better than the hormones but ideally, you know, a barrier method it’s not internal all the time. It’s probably better so that just kind of gives you a couple options there.
Evan Brand: Yeah. I’ve heard some stories, some horror stories about the copper ones too. So, like you said it cold be a problem but
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Not everyone has problems with it. I mean, women that like tend to cramp a lot, they could have, because that cramping, IUD being in that uterus sometimes that can cause pain but it just depends kind of where women are, you know. Some parents may be pushing kids to have a method because they don’t want their kid getting pregnant and maybe they feel like they aren’t responsible enough at maybe 18 or 19 and they set it and forget it method. If you want that, I would recommend doing the ParaGard before you go to a hormonal method.
Evan Brand: Yeah, for sure. And, not to mention too we’re already in a society of so much estrogen dominance and you and I have done podcasts about the impact of gut imbalances in issues with the glucuronidation pathway which is then causing further issues. So, we could see this estrogen problem in a woman who’s not on birth control. You could still see that manifest in this way and so that’s why you’re getting off of the xenoestrogen, you’re cleaning up your makeup. You’re getting rid of plastics. You’re fixing your gut. You’re improving detoxification. All these other functional medicine strategies are directly impacting your ability to beat this situation. So, we know, we always want people to look at the big picture. Don’t just look for the magic, uh, like, berberine, Pau D’ Arco remedy. And there’s a question here in the chat, ‘how many Pau d’ Arco capsules is needed for someone who has Candida in their gut?’. I have no clue because we rarely use it in isolation. We’re always gonna use it in a blend. And I doubt you have just Candida. You’ve probably got other issues too.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Somewhere when they come in, they could have a combination of a little bit of a bacterial, a yeast issue, UTI thing. That could be a kind of combination of 2 or 3 different things happening. This one may be more predominant. So, we never wanna just go all in on one thing. Again, if someone’s having vaginal issues specifically, there’s gonna be things that we insert intravaginally like some of the boric acid, like some of the neem or the berberines and we’ll probably interchange in some probiotics because part of the big problem is you have to get the bacteria flora in the vaginal area, back up to where it should be because it’s the good bacteria that will help keep the other bad bugs in check through their natural acid and hydrogen peroxide production.
Evan Brand: Well said.
And so, the point I was making is that I don’t want people listening and going okay just give me the freaking remedy. What’s the natural urinary tract remedy? That’s what I’m here for. And we’ve talked about some of those, you know, the mannose, the cranberry, the berberines, the Pau d’ Arcos, the French Tarragon, this whole blend, you know, that may be the solution but what got you here is important. Have you fixed the other issues that have gotten you here. And so, I hope people see the big picture. Sometimes, you and I are happy to just go boom, hit the oregano oil and were happy to just throw out just this natural solution but like you said before we hit the record, you don’t want people skipping out on the low hanging fruit.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. And so, it’s always good to do history. I find the big issue is antibiotics can be a big factor. I also find just some of the low-hanging fruit like the intercourse and hydration can also be a big factor as well. You’ll be surprised. And so, my wife comes to me, she’s like, ‘my friend has this issue, what should I recommend?’. Well, it’s hard, I can’t really recommend a lot of things because I don’t know much about them if eating like crap and they’re not hydrating and they’re drinking lots of soda and they’ve been on lots of antibiotics, you know, I may say, hey, all right, do this [24:34] but that’s gonna be palliative and not fix the whole lead up and how everything went down. And so, the lead up and I call it the timeline history of how we get to this point matters so much because, you know, if not, you were just becoming naturopathic doctors that are using nutrients and herbs like MDs use drugs. Now, again, I think that’s better because a lot of these things are natural, have less side effects but still we want to be holistic and still root cause.
Evan Brand: Yeah. Well said. That’s the problem. There’s a difference between naturopathic approach to this issue and functional medicine approach to this issue. So, I think you made that clear, which is, you go to the naturopath, it’s hey, here’s the oversee, functional medicine is gonna come in and say, ‘okay, well, how did you get to the UTI?’. Oh, you took antibiotics, you’re on birth control for 20 years, you had a sexual partner who had extremely poor microbiome health, maybe there was some issue there, maybe you had multiple partners, maybe one of them had H. pylori. You have low stomach acid. You ended up with dysbiosis, then you got Candida overgrowth, then you drank too much alcohol, you loved to do wine in the evenings. You ate a little too much chocolate, you know, it’s like, that’s the more investigative route and that’s where people need to be thinking. We’ve got friends that are naturopaths, good people, but you just got to go deeper most of the time.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and a lot of times too, if I’m, if someone has chronic issues, I wanna know more about their gut because the microbiome has such an impact especially with IgA and with the overall immune system. So, if there’s chronic issues in the vaginal area, you have to look up to the intestinal tract. Very important.
Evan Brand: Yeah, and you would say there’s gotta be some link between the low secretory IgA that you and I are seeing on the stool test and what’s going on with the vaginal microbiome too, right? You would assume that’s a system-wide defense shield that’s gonna be affected.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. It’s part of the mucous membrane barrier. So, mucous membranes in the eyes, the mouth, the intestinal tract, the urinary tract, the vaginal canal. So, if we see low IgA issues in the intestinal tract, that barrier is a little bit weaker. Think of the force field, you know, you see star trek, they put, like their force field up, right, so they, so when the Klingons go to shoot them, it kind of bounces off, right? Think of the force field we have in our intestinal tract and our vaginal canal and our urinary canal that kind of protects and so probiotics can help, obviously getting rid of the dysbiotic microbes can help, avoiding a lot of things that create the imbalances to begin with, which would be a lot of the antibiotics or maybe pesticides or GMO foods that produce a lot of antimicrobial compounds too. All those help avoiding those things too.
Evan Brand: You know, what’s happening even in the functional medicine world, is that everything’s becoming isolated. Are you noticing that? Like people are focusing on just the gut. So, it’s like this leaky gut formula, this leaky gut protocol and they’re ignoring the fact that you just mentioned this IgA, this mucosal barrier is kind of a system-wide problem. So, there could be oral, vaginal, gut all at the same time, all related to the same dysfunction of these force fields being down. I think it’s just marketing, right? People just want to market that they’re the gut guy, they’re the parasite guy, they’re the Candida guy. I think that’s just a marketing probe but hopefully people are seeing this and of course if they’ve been listening to us for months or years, they’re seeing that this is a system-wide problem, it’s just manifesting in this way.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. In the functional medicine world, a lot of people market to niche areas and symptoms which is fine because a lot of people when they get focused on something, they think they have these issues, they’re going into google or they’re typing that issue. So, for you to be relevant and for that person that has health issues to find you, you do kind of have to market to a symptom but then when you find that person and you talk to them, you wanna make sure that their approach is globally where they look at things holistically and you’re not seeing the gut person that only deals with the gut and they’re not looking at your thyroid or your anemia or your low glutathione. They’re not connecting the dots. So, you got to make sure they’re still able to connect the dots but multiple systems and they’re not just focused on one issue. So, it’s okay for doctors to market to that, you just have to make sure that their philosophy is a holistic philosophy that encompasses everything in there.
Evan Brand: Yeah and holistic spelled w-h-o-l-e a wholistic, the whole thing, the whole body, the whole person, not just holistic as in natural, it’s gonna be the whole piece and I think that’s where I suffered for a long time because I focused on my gut for so long but I was ignoring toxicity issues, I was ignoring dental issues, I was ignoring tick bite infections. So now, oh crap, I see the whole picture and I would miss that if I just dialed in the gut so and that’s what you and I do. We’ve done this over with clients worldwide, we look at the whole picture. If you’re suffering, if you’ve been through the conventional rabbit hole or maybe you’ve been fortunate to avoid the conventional rabbit hole, you don’t want to go down it but you need help, feel free to reach out. Dr. J and I work with people around the world. We can send these labs that we’re talking about stool and urine. These are at home, these are non-invasive. It’s rare that we need to do invasive testing but most of the time it’s at home functional medicine tests can be sent to your door, you do them, you send them back to the lab. We get the results. We jump on a call. We run you through them. We interpret those. We make a protocol for you and get you better and get you off the merry-go-round. So, if you need help, feel free to reach out, Dr. J is at justinhealth.com and me, evanbrand.com and you can reach out, book a call with us, we’d love to talk with you, help you, find and fix the root causes if you just have UTIs and you think that’s all it is, maybe you’re right but maybe not, either way, we’re gonna help you get to the bottom of it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very good. Excellent. So, for women that are listening and kind of want to recap here, first thing, make sure your diet is right, keep in the process refined sugar, grains, flours out, makes a huge difference. Omega-6, seed oils, in general, should be reduced as well. Hydration, make sure hydration is good, clean and filtered water, um, you know, good mineral water, especially if you have more health issues, more minerals in there is gonna be better. Next thing out of the gate, you know, urinate after intercourse, those kinds of foundational things. If you have chronic gut issues, definitely, get your gut looked at. If you’re on hormone, if you’re on birth control pills, definitely get your hormones looked at and figure out why you’re on them. Most women aren’t even on hormone or birth control pills for birth prevention. They’re on it for off-label issues like acne or headaches or lots of PMS and so most women could totally get off it because they’re not even using birth control pills for the original intention. They’re for off-label use and so that would require looking deeper at the hormones. Next, you can get tested, you can do either a, um, a MONISTAT test to look for yeast, you can get those at the drugstore, you can do one of the strip tests to look for leukocyte esterase or I think it’s nitrites in the urine for more of the UTI issues and of course, if you have a lot more of the odor-like, uh, issues, you can get a vaginal swab from your OB or your primary to rule out any of the BV issues as well, again, similar solutions, you know, some maybe more internal in regards to what we recommend, some maybe more internal like with swallowing pills so maybe internally, intravaginally and of course the more chronic the issue is, the more we have to really support the vaginal microbiome with the right beneficial bacteria getting in there internally as well. And then, of course, just keeping up with a lot of the menstruation because that can really affect a lot of the, um, the bacterial issues and yeast issues in the vaginal canal because it’s gonna shift that pH from very acidic to more neutral to alkaline at that time of the month when you menstruate. So, hopefully, that’s a good kind of crash course, out of the gates and kind of you guys understand kind of our spitball kind of philosophy and how we look at the whole history and really connect the dots and we have our little toolbox of all these things but we just got to make sure it’s catered to the history.
Evan Brand: And alcohol too, I think, we briefly mentioned it but alcohols got to go. It’s just, it’s not gonna help you. It’s going to promote all sorts of issues. It’s gonna aggravate the immune system. It’s gonna affect your IgA levels. It may promote dysbiosis and it may promote more yeast problems and so I’ve heard many stories where a woman’s like, oh yeah we went to Napa Valley and we drank wine and ate chocolate and salami and cheese all weekend and now I had a flare up. It’s like, well, yeah, duh, I mean, that’s incredibly damaging. Everything that you’ve done, you binged on wine all weekend so I think wine kind of gets like this people think that they’re not drinking alcohol. Somehow, they think they’re getting off the hook. Oh, it’s just wine, like, it’s so socially cool, it’s like coffee. It’s like coffee and wine, like wine is so accepted into the culture but it can be a big problem, I tell you. Some of those California women, the ones in San Francisco, like, it’s part of the culture here. I had one woman argue with me that she didn’t want to get off alcohol. I said, well, what if it’s gonna help your gut. She’s like, well maybe I’ll consider it. So, sometimes as practitioners, we’re having to bargain with people and try to make trades and make healthy swaps, we’ll swap it for this and try this and what if you do a binder afterwards. So, sometimes, you gotta work with people, they’re not just in a vacuum. We got to work with them and help educate them so that they’re more dedicated to the lifestyle changes but I just want to mention alcohol because I think a lot of people, don’t even consider the impact it has on the gut but then on this flora.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. A couple things with alcohol, number one it’s diuretic so it will increase the frequent urination and kind of make you more dehydrated so good hydration helps prevent a lot of that bacteria from growing. Number two, out of the gates, you know, it may be necessary out of the gates for the first month so as you get things under wrap. There’re also healthier versions of alcohol. I mean, you can always get, like a Cosmo martini that has the fresh lime juice in there and cranberry juice. Just make sure it’s, like not the cranberry with sugar or the lime with sugar. Make sure, it’s fresh lime or actual juice cranberries with, like a nice Tito’s vodka, I mean, Tito’s vodka is, um, it is charcoal filter, right? So, it’s gonna be really clean and you can get some nice cranberry and lime in there that should be almost be beneficial in a way, obviously, you know, keep it, you know, a drink or two maybe once or twice a week max but once you better that maybe a good option to add things back in and just stay away from a lot of the sugary stuff and of course the glutinous drinks and you’ll be in a lot better position.
Evan Brand: Yeah. It’s a funny thing you have to mention. There’s got to be real cranberries because most of the time you go to a bar, it’s like that. It’s garbage. The heart or it’s the high fructose corn syrup concentrate.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. So, worst case, you can always just do a fresh lime squeezed in there and see if they have anything that’s just a pure, you know, extract and that’s a much way to do it. Of course, dry or white wines and you know just a good Tito’s vodka is always great with just the lime in and of itself. That’s an easy way to do it and keep the sugar and junk down but also keep a nice acidic pH there which is helpful for the vaginal area.
Evan Brand: Yeah. We’ll hope, as you mentioned, no I think we covered It so if you need help, we mentioned the links here Dr. J, that’s Justin at justinhealth.com. You can reach out for consult worldwide. Me at evanbrand.com, either way, we’re here to help you guys. We love what we do. We have a blast and it’s fun to educate people. It’s fun to empower people and take back your health and it’s possible. Whatever you’re dealing with it’s possible to make progress so just keep your head up. Stay motivated. Don’t always run straight to that antibiotic if there’s another way. You may try another solution. If you’ve been doing this for a decade now and you’re still battling it, you’re not out of the woods yet, it’s time to look deeper.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent. Great chat, Evan. Everyone, have an awesome week. We’ll talk soon. Take care of you all.
Evan Brand: Take care, now.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Bye now. Peace.
Evan Brand: Bye-bye