Optimizing Your Functional Medicine Gut Program – Dr. J Live Podcast #164

In today’s video, Dr. Justin Marchegiani and Evan Brand discuss the topic of creating a functional medicine toolbox for your gut health. Learn about the natural ways to modify your diet, improve your digestion, and promote your overall gut health. Watch and listen as they reveal some of the tools in the trade.

Discover some protocols that help aid problems with gut fungus, yeast overgrowth and infection, gut bacteria issues and parasites in your digestive system. Learn about the different steps to take on how to ensure you’re taking the right path for better gut health. Also, stay tuned for more information about how to further catch some knowledge bombs from this functional medicine duo.Optimizing Your Functional Medicine Gut Program

In this episode, we cover:

03:30   Looking at the Food

04:23   Digestive Support

06:10   Silver in the Killing Phase

09:47   Probiotics and Antibiotic Therapy

13:48   Retest




Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey there! It’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani. Evan Brand, what’s going on, man? How are things?

Evan Brand: Happy Monday. Life is good. The sun’s gone, though. That’s sad. This time of the year just— gonna start that gray sky, so I’m kind of jealous. I’m sure it’s sunny in Texas right now.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s a little cloudy out here today, but I was actually in Lake Austin yesterday, water skiing. I got a new suit. It’s about a three-four millimeter kind of thickness suit, so it’s great. I go in the water, doing pretty good. I’ve got some little booties, too, that are neo-printed, and some gloves. The worst thing was the week before. I didn’t have the gloves— is you really— you know— ‘cause when you’re squeezing really hard, right? You kind of squeeze a lot of that blood out, right? You kind of like— you know, white knuckled, so to speak. You don’t have a lot of blood, so your hands get really cold with the air. So those new gloves made a huge difference

Evan Brand: Well, that’s awesome.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. How’re things going on with you?

Evan Brand: Things were good. You know, the baby’s running around and keeping me busy. She basically stole half of my lunch. She took all my carrots and almost stolen my peas, so that’s a lot of fun. You know, tweaking her diet. We just actually ran a GI Map on her. So, we’ll make it to Stool Test back. We’ll have to uhh— chat about what’s on there— Actually, no! I take that back. We got the results. She had Klebsiella on there. So, that’s pretty interesting.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Awesome, dude. I got my dog, Butter, here on the YouTube if you guys want to see her. Butter (kisses the dog). We love good healthy fats, that’s why we named her Butter. Uhm— but yeah— so, we’re in the same place. Aden’s doing really good, breastfeeding like crazy. He’s starting to sleep a little bit more, so we’re really excited about that. Really happy your daughter’s going good, too.

Evan Brand: What do you think about the Klebsiella with her? I mean, we’re using some herbs already. It’s like, at her age it makes you wonder. Did she pick up Klebsiella from somewhere? Did she have it? Was that passed through the placenta? I mean, it makes you wonder, her being that young.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I mean, I would say off the bat, uhm— probably something from your wife? From you guys? And, I would utilize some probiotics and, maybe, one oil of Oregano Capsule a day, or something like that, or maybe decent to help. Keep it really low, though. [crosstalk] But use more probiotics. Anything else?

Evan Brand: We’re doing that tincture, I was telling you about, that’s got the uh—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: … I think it’s got the…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. [crosstalk] good one [silence]. That’s a great one. I like that.

Evan Brand: [inaudible] …worked it out. But anyhow— So, I’m sure we can do a whole podcast on that, but I figured, today, you and I should chat about creating a protocol. You know, if you’re trying to create a functional medicine toolbox for gut health, what would that look like? In that could involve things that could help with fungus, yeast, bacteria and parasites. We’ve hit on parasites and— you know, the influence of thyroid health and adrenal health. And we’ve hit on the link between parasites and leaky gut, and leaky gut and autoimmunity. So now, I feel like it’d be good for us to— you know, reveal some of the tools of the trade, which you’ve already mention one, which is the Oregano. So maybe let’s go into the order of operations first. Let’s talk about what comes first, like in this whole Functional Medicine approach. ‘Cause some people, they think probiotics are just be used anytime. And prebiotics, you can just throw them in. But really, there’s a— there’s a Science and there’s an order to herbs. Probiotics may not be the first thing that you should look at for an adult.   

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I know. I uh— I hundred percent agree with that. So, first things first is looking at the foods. If we have certain foods that are more offending and more inflammatory, that’s gonna potentially create the— the breeding ground on which bacteria can overgrow. There’s lots of different bacteria that can grow, so— I mean, we have more of our pathogenic type or Klebsiella, or Proteus, or Citrobacter, rella— or Morganella. These are our dysbiotic bacteria, not so good. They produce toxins in our body. They can eat up B vitamins. They can prevent our good bacteria from producing nutrition. So, of course, we want to make sure those things are under control. We will look at the foods first. Keep the inflammatory foods down. I think, potentially, in your daughter’s situation. They may have been some foods, they may have been slipping in some, like kind of pseudo-Paleo foods, potentially. [crosstalk] What food were you slipping in for her?

Evan Brand: Well, so we were doing the rice flour.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Rice flour? [crosstalk] Yep.

Evan Brand: Rice flour and also, there was some Tapioca starch and some of these like dried veggie snacks. They had Tapioca in there. So I’m thinking because, remember, I showed you that she had a small rash into her eye.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: [inaudible] … improving?

Evan Brand: It’s gone.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And what food change did you make?

Evan Brand: The rice flour. We took it out.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think there’s a gluten-sensitivity component there. So, I think [crosstalk] once you get that better, the gut bacteria will get better. So then, once that’s better, you know, looking at digestive support— so if they’re kiddos— I mean, you know, what can you do? So, typically, we’ll do like uhm— We’ll do some enzyme wafers that are really easy to chew and taste pretty good, for the little kiddos, they can eat.

Evan Brand: Is there any good brands?  ‘Cause I looked at some, and it looked like a lot of them had fructose in there, added.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I mean, I like the Vitalzym’s chewables.

Evan Brand: Okay.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s a pretty good one. If they can swallow a pill, Then we’d  maybe have them do an HCL enzyme combo if they can get a pill. If they can’t, I’ll do a wafer.

Evan Brand: Ah— okay.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I would do that, and uhm— just really making sure they chew their food up really well. Uh— and then— you know, just cutting out the inflammatory food. So that would be my first two steps right there. And, I would even maybe do a smoothie for one meal a day and really just add some extra aminos, add some extra nutrients in there. So, it kind of gives her digestive system a break for at least one meal.

Evan Brand: That’s a genius idea. Did you know that the Vitalzym chewable has the DPP4 in there. So that would be great [crosstalk] if there is a cross-contamination issue going on.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And that would be helpful. And the chewable— those taste pretty decent, too. Had a couple of kids— Yeah— fed them a couple dozen at least the last few years, do well with those. So, I like those, a lot. And then the next step is, you know, the Killing Phase. We kind of talked about, you know, the foods. We talked about enzyme support. Maybe we add them some gut-healing nutrients. Maybe we add them some collagen peptides. Maybe we add them some L-Glutamine to keep it really simple for the kiddos. Maybe we just put that in our morning shake. A couple of blueberries or berries, maybe a nice scoop of collagen or pea protein to keep it more hypoallergenic, maybe some coconut milk or MCT for some extra good fats, maybe we add some extra L-Glutamine— or like in my Lyme, we use like a GI Restore, some extra healing, soothing mucilaginous herbs, like Aloes, Slippery Elm, DGL Licorice; all very healthy and soothing. And then maybe we start the killing in a month or two later. We could start even with just like a teaspoon of Silver. Right? Twice a day, for your daughter who’s younger, right? Something very, very small. Maybe do one oil of Oregano Pearl, once a day. And over [crosstalk] Yeah.

Evan Brand: Talk more about the Silver. I mean, there’s antimicrobial benefits. I believe there’s antiparasitic benefits, possibly.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I mean, Silver is proven to help with biofilms. They’re actually— My mom’s still a surgical nurse. She’s been a surgical nurse for like 45 years, and she has even— The last couple of years, they are actually adding in a Silver wrap. So, when they do like a total hip or a total knee, they’re actually wrapping the whole joint with this like Aluminum-foil-like thing, but it’s Silver. And they wrapped the joint before they closed it in that, uhm— to prevent, basically uhm— bac— antibiotic or just some bacteria coming from coming in.

Evan Brand: And that stays in?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: No, it dissolves.

Evan Brand: Oh, it dissolves. [crosstalk] That’s cool.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s kind of like a cellophane thing that kind of dissolves. They do it— this one called Seprafilm. They put over like— you know, they do a surgery to prevent scar tissues. So, it’s similar to that. It’s kind of like a cellophane-thin kind of thing they wrap. Not sure of it’s up against the joint directly or if it’s around the fascia and the skin. I’m not sure about that. But it’s definitely enclosed around that joint for sure, to help with the biofilms and the resistant bacteria. Conventional medicine’s getting on board. And they have to, because they have a lot of problems with antibiotic-resistant bacteria. So, they kind of have to.

Evan Brand: Yeah, the C. diff, the MRSA. I’ve even heard of antifungal-resistant. Like this species of Candida diflucan and these other prescriptions aren’t working for even the yeast anymore. They’re— The yeast are evolving and getting too smart. Luckily, in our toolbox, we’re not using pharmaceuticals. We’re using herbs. And in this case, you know, if we’re talking about Candida, you mentioned the silver— We can use Silver against Candida, too. The Oregano can be against Candida. The garlic can be another good choice.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup, exactly. And there’s some liquid garlic options that we could always give her, too, as well. And then we could do some of the oil of Oregano. I like them ‘cause they’re smaller in pearl. So, like in my GI Clear 5 line, we have that, where we use the emulsified 75 percent Carvacrol extract, so it’s very potent. And it’s a pretty small uh— pearl, so typically, that’s easier to get down. And you can do that with the kiddo. You can do the Silver like I mentioned. And then we could always do some liquid garlic. So, those will be like kind of my options for kids that really had a hard time with pills, off the bat.

Evan Brand: Let’s chat about some statistics. I’ve seen kids as young as one, two, three, four years old, and they have infections, parasites, bacterial problems, a lot of Candida problems. ‘Cause the kids were unfortunately exposed to antibiotics early on, and now they’ve got a massive systemic yeast overgrowth.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. So, of course, anytime you have to use antibiotics. ‘Cause there may be sometimes— you know, you’re scared as a mom or dad, right? You’re like, “Oh my gosh! She’s getting out of control.” Number one, like have some things in your medicine cabinet like the Silver. You know, you could do even some ginger capsules is good, or some higher-dosed ginger tea if you can’t get that downward. It’s gonna be great. Of course, keeping the sugar out. But if we uhm— had to come at it with some probiotics during the killing, we can always add in some probiotics, some powder probiotics, and some saccharomyces boulardii. And we can put it in— in their drink, right? We can get them to have a nice little smoothie. We that in there. Or we could just mix it in, maybe their Kombucha or something. Or we could just come up with some kind of a drink they like and put it in there. That could be some really good options during the killing, and of course, we would do it after for at least one or two months.

Evan Brand: So, what do you think about Probiotics. I mean, some of the training I’ve seen and some of the protocols recommend probiotics during a killing phase and then some protocols don’t recommend probiotics. I mean, it— like—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It depends. There is some research showing that probiotics during antibiotic therapy can actually be beneficial. And again, most conventional antibiotic therapies don’t go longer than two weeks. So, I’m not that worried about it ‘cause we’re gonna be giving probiotics afterwards for at least two months. So, I’m not worried about if we want to go do it for two weeks. Do the probiotics while we do the antibiotics. I’m okay with it, especially if you have digestive issues. And let’s say the probiotics really helped and they’re soothing. Maybe they help keep you regular. Maybe you have a history of a lot of rebound yeast overgrowths ‘cause of post antibiotic therapy in the past, then I would. If you don’t, then I would just wait until afterwards. I don’t think you can go wrong if you do. Some people, they have histories of just antibiotics or let’s just say probiotics causing a lot of bloating and gas. And if that’s the case, and I’d probably wait. Yeah. May use some different strains. May use some coil or spore-like strains, or just doing it after the antibiotics. A lot of that flora’s gonna be knocked down. So, maybe the probiotics are more tolerable after that as well.

Evan Brand: And the same thing would apply for just straight herbs. If you were just doing straight herbal protocol. Sometimes, you’re gonna use probiotics during the killing. Sometimes, you’re not. Or you’re always using.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh— I only use probiotics during the killing, if we’re on a repeat protocol, like if we retested and we have new infections or other factions, just because I want to prevent any rebound overgrowth from happening

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Just kind of where you knock them out of the floor down. You even knocked the good stuff back, but we all know, if you do weeding in  the garden, you never have to go back and purposefully plant weeds, right? Weeds automatically grow.

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, it’s kind of like that. We’re just kind of throwing down extra seeds during the process to take up the space that maybe those weeds would take. So, it’s kind of like a preventative thing, as well as— It can have benefits with inflammation and it can have benefits with regularity and motility as well.

Evan Brand: That’s good advise. And also, too. You and I see the Beta-glucuronidase enzyme on the Stool Test that we’re running. And if that enzyme is elevated, that could mean your recirculating your toxins and hormones and drugs and stuff like that. And one good way that we can get Beta-glucuronidase back down into normal range is probiotics. So, I love that you bring up [inaudible]—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Also— We can also use phages, too. Phages have some really good beneficial effects at knocking down that bacteria. And then, you know, depending on how regular you are, we can even slide in some activated charcoal, too. Some activated charcoal or some like Modified Citrus Pectin, trying to act like a little sponge and soak up a lot of the crap that are maybe sitting around your gut from all that bacteria.

Evan Brand: When would you make the call on that? Would that be like if you have a ton of bacterial infections plus parasites, they could try to treat five or six things at once? Like what if it was just H. pylori? Are you gonna hit the charcoal or not?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Depends on the person’s resilience. If they have a lot of fatigue, and they have a history of being more sensitive, or they have a history of lots of antibiotics and like they tell me like— you have like, in the past, antibiotics have really wiped me out, or I’m just really tired or if in fatigue, then maybe I would add in preventatively. I they’re pretty— like if energy’s pretty decent, then I would say, “Let’s wait and see.”

Evan Brand: Yep. .

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …wait and see. But it’s something that’s always there, you know. Kind of undecked so to speak. So if we need to go, we can go to it. Of course, then one of the first things we can do is ginger tea, ‘cause ginger really helps the lymphatic systems. It’s very anti-inflammatory. Keeps things moving. It’s also a biofilm buster, too, so it helps— it actually helps the uhm— antibiotics work better. There were studies using Silver and ginger and they found that when they used the Silver and ginger, the antibiotics actually work better. So, I tell patients, if you need to use the antibiotic, use the ginger and Silver with it. And then, you can even add in the probiotics to prevent any rebound overgrowth. That way, you get the best of both worlds.

Evan Brand: Nice. That is awesome. And then, uh— I guess the last step in our toolbox— you know, we’re talking protocol, would be another test. Because, once you go through the— you talk us through the process, removing bad foods, replacing enzymes, repairing the gut…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hmmn— hmmn.

Evan Brand: [inaudible] …infections re-inoculating probiotics. Then the last step in this whole protocol is the test itself. Retest and make sure [crosstalk] all the stuff we implemented was successful.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hundred percent, yeah. So, if we have a specific infection we’re going after, we definitely want to put in their crosshairs, we want to aim at it. And then we want to go look to that scope again and make sure we actually hit it right. That’s kind of where that lab test retest would come in. Sometimes, if it’s just insignificant smaller amounts of yeast or smaller amounts of bacteria, and there’s not any major stuff— there’s no H. pylori, there’s no like significant bacterial overgrowth, there’s significant fungal overgrowth or any parasites, then we’ll just based it off of symptomatic relief?

Evan Brand: Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Is there anything significant, then I want to make sure that we retest for sure.

Evan Brand: Yeah. It’s a great point. People ask it all the time. You know— “Should I retest?” “Do I really need to retest?” Maybe. But if you feel amazing, maybe we can assume. And your hair’s better, and your skin’s better, and your nails are better— like for me, I noticed when I thought my infections were gone because my weight loss stopped. Like, my weight stabilized, but I still did the retest, ‘caused I had the Giardia, Crypto, H. pylori, Pseudomonas, Candida— I had all of it. That was just too much for me to not spend the money on the retest.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I wouldn’t give you the choice for those kinds of infections. But let’s say you had just a little bit of like yeast, or you had just a little bit of Citrobacter. It wasn’t off the charts and you didn’t have really awful symptoms, then I would probably say, “Hey, if you feel and improvement, that’s good.”

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I would say, “Let’s just keep you in the loop to retest once a year.”  

Evan Brand: So, people say, “Well, how would I know if I’m feeling good Dr. J? “ That would be things like what? If your brains working? Your…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes. [crosstalk] Everytime I— I chat with the patient, we always go over wins, challenges and corrections, diet, lifestyle, review, supplement review. So, of course, wins and challenges, what’s moving in the right direction at each appointment and what’s moving in the wrong direction. And of course, we have our baseline audit in the beginning. Patient comes in day one. Do patient exam. I got bloating. I had gas. I have diarrhea. We follow up. Make diet changes, lifestyle changes, supplement changes, how much better, what are our wins. “Oh, well. Bloating is down; 80 percent. Diarrhea is down; 90 percent.” And we continue to follow that all the way down. So each time we chat, we’re always checking in. We’re keeping our pulse on everything. I want to know exactly what we’re at, so to speak.

Evan Brand: Yep, well said. So, if those symptoms are still there, maybe the hair’s better but you still got the gas bloating. Well, could still be some yeast or bacteria going on there. Is that safe to say?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And if we’re running— Let’s say, we’re running like our GI Map or our 401H and it’s looking relatively clean, then the next place we’re gonna go is the Breath Test. We’re gonna go Breath Test next ‘cause then, there may be some bacteria on there we not necessarily are picking up. And the Breath Test is kind of more of uh— a broad general spectrum because it’s looking more of the gases that bacteria is producing. So, not necessarily the bacteria, but it just tells us that there are bacteria there, producing gases if you will.

Evan Brand: How about the [crosstalk] organic acid?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: The analogy is this, right? The analogy is this. You’re on top of the water. Is someone under the water swimming? Well, how do you know if you can’t see him? Well, you look for bubbles coming up, right? So, think of the gas that comes back on the Breath Test is like looking for bubbles on the surface trying to see if someone’s in the water.

Evan Brand: So, may I ask you this, too. What if someone’s like, “Aaaah! I don’t want to do SIBO Testing.” What about just coming in and giving some Broad Spectrum Antimicrobial Support— maybe we throw in some of the SIlver or some of the garlic?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. It depends. I mean, typically, when I’m recommending SIBO Testing, people are having more severe issues and the issues have been more chronic, and they’re just more motivated to get answers. So, it just depends, right? The more intense the symptoms are and the more chronic some thing’s been, people typically wanted to know what’s real. They want to be able to put their finger on it, so to speak. So I, typically, will recommend that. Uhm— if they said let’s just try it first, then I can get more to agree that, “Hey. if we didn’t get it to improve, then Round two.” “I don’t want to retest” I’ll try to get that negotiation moving.

Evan Brand: Yeah. So, long story short, you know— we try to base everything on labs cause if you don’t test, you’ve guessed. And we try to minimize guessing and checking ‘cause a lot of practitioners do that. We’re just not huge fans of guessing because you spend more money in the long run and the clinical outcome is not as good. Then that comes back on us. “Hey. Why didn’t it work?” “Well, ‘cause we’re shooting into the dark.”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: . Well, also like. Let’s say, we come back. Let’s say, we did a Breath Test, right? And let’s say, hypothetically, the person was at a hundred for Hydrogen and 50 for Methane, okay? And then let’s say, we did a protocol. And let’s say those gases cut in half but they were still symptomatic. Well, does it kind of— Isn’t it nice to know that you had 50 percent improvement on some of those gases and that you’re moving in the right direction? Like, imagine you had a map, right? And— like Google map, right? And they only told you, you are on the right path once you got there.

Evan Brand: [laughs]

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, don’t you have to want a confirmation that you’re moving in the right direction, right?

Evan Brand: Yep.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s kind of how I look at it. And the more complex and the more severe someone is, the more I like that because it gives me confidence as the doctor, that we’re doing the right stuff. But the patient is doing really well and some of the things and some of the things are really working well, then sometimes uh— I’ll let that one slide. But, I’ll let them know as a caveat that if— if we go in the wrong direction that’s gonna be our Plan B. And also I want to let people know what our Plan B is, just so they don’t think like, “Uh! Well, uhm— That’s all I got. I’m a one-trick pony,” Right? So, I want to let them know we got second options and third options, so to speak.

Evan Brand: Have you used a BioHealth? I know they’ve got a SIBO. I know they talked about a lot.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s the panel I use. I use the 900 SIBO Breath Test. .

Evan Brand: Oh, okay. That’s the best one.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I like it. It’s a three-hour.

Evan Brand: Okay.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s a three-hour test, and that’s nice to see the three-hour because you can get that whole window and you can see where it transitions at two hours to three, which is nice.

Evan Brand: Awesome. And then, what do you want to see on there? I mean, does that kind of like an adrenal profile where you’re gonna have a reference range?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hmm— Yeah. We want to see Methane three or below, and we want to see Hydrogen 15 and below. Below 15, ideally.

Evan Brand: And— and— So, let me ask you this. If you have an overgrowth of good guys, you know, on the GI Map, sometimes, we’ll see the beneficial bacteria show up high. People always target these bad bacteria, but it— you can’t have too much of a good thing. If you have too many good guys, could that also show up and trigger those?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, if we’re running an Organic Acid Test, we would look at the lactate being elevated and if we saw that there, most people are gonna know because they’re gonna feel more bloated and gassy with probiotics. They’re gonna feel it. They’re gonna be more probiotic intolerant. So, we’re gonna know that, alright? There’s gonna be— you know, We’re gonna have specific symptoms that we’ll be able to see clinically. And then I would just be using more spore-based probiotics, instead.

Evan Brand: Okay.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That I’ll probably use Saccharomyces boulardii and spore-based probiotics. First is— you know, like in my line, we used like the Probioflor, which is like bifidobacteria lactobacillus. The unique thing about my Lyme is we have the Phagen. So, the phage does have some antibacterial effects and it comes from a non-dairy culture. So, a lot of people can tolerate mine. But if you’re just doing a run on the milk probiotics, and there’s no phage and— and there’s dairy in there, potentially, then there may be a problem.

Evan Brand: Yep. Yep. Well said. I think that’s it. I think we killed that one fast, but very effective. Were there any pieces to the whole protocol talk you wanted to mention?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think we hit it pretty good, man. I think we’re really on the right track. Let me just see if we got any questions. I have kept my uh— question window down. I apologize for ignoring everyone.

Evan Brand: Let me see.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We got—  Oh, then we do now some questions. Let me see what’s going on here guys.

Evan Brand: Uh, Waled said that he hopes that we talk about Lyme disease treatment. Maybe we can do a whole podcast on that. I mean, Justin and I are continuing to learn more about the different protocols. There’s many protocols for Lyme.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think a lot of people with Lyme are overtreated though. I think there’s a sequence that you have to go and work through. Like if you have a cute Lyme and you came back with uh— a bull’s eye rash, or you got any tick bite and then some symptoms follow right away, definitely go after that right away. But if it’s a chronic kind of thing, you need to get everything worked through. You need to get all your hormones work through, digestion worked through, diet and lifestyle worked through, worked through all the gut stuff, worked through the detox, and then get to the Lyme later. Uhm— so, a lot of people I find, I think, are misdiagnosed. Their immune system’s so screwed up ‘cause of other things, and then they’re seeing some Lyme come back, because, of course, everything’s gonna come back. Their immune system is down, right? It’s like, you open  your house up, and you got— you know, you come home one day, and there’s ten homeless people laying in the kitchen. Of course! Your house is wide open, right? [crosstalk] So, think of that as kind of like your gut when your immune system’s super low.

Evan Brand: Yep, well said. And, you know, the thing with the Lyme, antibiotics are very, very, very overused. And if you read some of the work that Steven Buhner’s put out. He’s got multiple books on this subject about antibiotics. Unfortunately, in many, many cases, for chronic Lyme, they just don’t work. And he’s seen a lot of people get sicker from the antibiotic. So, herbs, luckily Lyme and these other bacteria, they are still susceptible and allowed to be killed from herbs. Antibiotics— it’s not working.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And this is really important, too. This kind of dovetails with today’s podcast. If we do a whole bunch of killing, where does that all go? Well, it typically will and get dumped in via the hepatobiliary system and then obviously, some of the killing will happen in the gut. And then, what if our motility is not good? What if our digestion is not good? Well, it’s gonna back you up even more and you’re gonna reabsorb more of those toxins, right? So, that’s why we really want to make sure things are moving, digestion is doing good, our motility is doing good, our immune system is better. And then we have things that really help with uhm— coagulation, meaning, we’re keeping things moving. We’re not letting them— things get like static and coagulated and sticky and stuck. We want to keep it flowing.

Evan Brand: Yeah, well said. I mean, I think we may— maybe oversimplified the protocol talk, but part of that is just making sure that you’re not constipated. I mean, pretty simple, if you create all the garbage but you never take the trash out, that’s not good. You’re gonna have an overflow.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. Totally. So, couple other questions here. Thanks Monmon for sharing the live show on your Twitter. I really appreciate it. Question for me. How old I am? I am almost 34.

Evan Brand: Nice.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Almost 34. Uh— Suggestions for root canals? I would uhm— do your best to try to read Ramiel Nagel’s book. I would do oil pulling and I would do your best to try to avoid it. See natural doctor. If you have to get it, get a full extraction. There is new research or new therapies coming [crosstalk] Stem cell therapy as well. I posted a video on my YouTube and my Facebook channel about it today. Take a look at that, justinhealth.com— I should say, facebook.com/justinhealthwellnessclinic, or click on the the facebook link. I don’t know what the topic is. I came in late. Okay— So, Pheochromocytoma. I think that’s a tumor on the kidney that produces excess aldosterone. I’m going back to like doctorate school physiology class. I think that’s the aldosterone-producing tumor. So, I mean, all the stuff we would do for cancer: Ketogenic diet, uhm— toxicity, coffee enemes, crucumin— all of that. I’ll let you hit the rest of them. Go ahead.

Evan Brand: Yeah. Let’s see what else we’ve got. Uh— Tessa. Wanting to know about starting Iodine, what to do to get started. Uh— Dr. Korosin talks about Iodine a lot in the aspect that many people are doing it, but if they have thyroid antibodies, it’s making the situation worse. So my advice would be get your thyroid panel run. Look for the antibodies first ‘cause you could if you have [incomprehensible], you could make yourself worse if you go start pumping a bunch of Iodine. And uh— Korosin’s got a bunch of literature he link’s, too about that conversation.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Keep the Selenium in there, two to four hundred micrograms. And once you’re stable, if you want to play around with some Iodine, hundred and fifty micrograms to start at one drop or one hun— 150 microgram dose, you know, per week, installing increase. They just make sure the B vitamins, the vitamin C, the Selenium, the Magnesium, and the Zinc are all in with it. And also, stay tuned for my Thyroid Reset Plan book that will be coming out in the next six months.

Evan Brand: Oooh!

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s [inaudible] … draft for the first half of the book, just the other day, so I’m really excited about it.

Evan Brand: Congratulations.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Thank you.

Evan Brand: Alright. Let’s keep going. Uh— Home remedies for flu and what to eat everyday to avoid s—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh— Remedy. Last week’s podcast. We did a whole podcast on it. Also I did a whole blog post: “What to do when you get sick” Part 1, Part 2. Part 1’s on the diet and lifestyle. Part 2 is in the supplements. So, that answers your questions right there.

Evan Brand: Man, Justin is killing it today. All great. Another question. Is it necessary to take HPA Access Support during a Kill Phase if you’re in Stage 1 or 2? I would say, it depends on your constitution. I think Justin would agree and…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Evan Brand: … depends on your sleep, your stress level, how many hours are you working, how much rest are you getting. Are you working or are you off from working? What’s your circadian rhythm look like? Are you travelling? What’s going on? Like, what’s in that stress bucket?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I would say yes. It’s always gonna be good. And then depending on how much stress would be what we’d— what specific herbs we would recommend.

Evan Brand: Oh, we take adaptogens everyday, so we’re gonna say yes always.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes. I got some Ashwagandha here. So today, I’m crushing the Ashwagandha Supreme, right here. Absolutely. I’m gonna hit two right up now. I love it. It helps with my mood. It helps with sleep. It helps with energy. I find two. I can take it before bed if I— I get like disturbed or like stressed out, because— I don’t know. I watch the news or uhm— just something happens. Like, I just got some project. I got to do some deadline. Taking that really helps kind of curtail the Cortisol rush at night, along with uhm— some GABA and Magnesium, too.

Evan Brand: Yeah. I’ve been hitting Ashwagandha, the Reishi, the Motherwort, the Ziziphus, Albizia, the GABA, Chewable PharmaGABAs. I love them. Those were all good choices. “Hello, Dr. J and Evan. How much probiotics  are appropriate for a two-year old after antibiotic treatment for Bronchitis. If you’re looking into those infant strains that we’re using, some of the infant probiotics, typically— if we’re talking powders, it ends up being about…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Quarter teaspoon, right?

Evan Brand: … about quarter to a half teaspoon per day…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Evan Brand: … for my daughter. We’re doing that currently. And she’s a little less than two years old but we just put it into her drink of water, and she just sips on it all day.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and then for us, like my son Aden, I’m just like basically tipping my finger a little bit and some— Like I dump some probiotics on like the uhm— the container, and I’ll just kind of slip my finger and I’ll just touch it. And then I’ll apply it to his gums. Or like, we’ll put it on my wife’s breast, where like my child will feed from and just apply it there. And then, when he feeds, he gets the probiotics that way. So, you can do either way, if [crosstalk] they’re still not doing solids.

Evan Brand: That’s a good idea.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: The infant’s strain’s great. That’s really what you want, I think, up to age four. [pauses] Yeah, up to age four, like that’s when you want to be just doing the infant’s strains.

Evan Brand: Uh— Tessa gave us some more follow-up about the Iodine question. She does not have a thyroid and has grave disease. Would that change your—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, Dr. Wright has a protocol for graves where he does really a high amount of Iodine to basically overload the Iodine symport system, and then downregulate uhm- hormone Iodine or let’s just say thyroid hormone production. There’s that protocol. What’s out there? Dr. Wright’s— Jonathan Wright’s Protocol. I personally— and again, you need to be working with the clinician with this. Graves, it’s really serious. I mean, all of these conditions, I don’t recommend just doing Dr. Google. Like, we’re giving a lot of good information, which is great. But you really want to be working with someone in applying it. But for hypothyroid graves, we’re doing L-Carnitine, we’re doing Melissa and Lemon Balm, okay? Blue Flag— We’re also gonna be doing Lithium Orotate. Okay. And of course, an autoimmune Paleo type of template. I did multiple patients over two hands full that I had taken them out of grave-like states, so to speak.

Evan Brand: What’s the Lithium doing?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, Lithium has an effect on modulating the thyroid hormones.

Evan Brand: Oh, wow! That’s cool.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah. Lithium Orotate, we— I typically just uh— a formula used with the combination of Melissa or Lemon Balm and Blue Flag, and a couple of other herbs in there that are really helpful. The Carnitine, the Lithium; that’s gonna be great. And of course, you know, we added some Selenium, too, to help with the antibodies.

Evan Brand: Nice. Nice. Great. Great follow-up there. Very— Very good. Uh— does oil pulling really help? Yeah. It does. We’ve used uh— oil pulling ourselves. Both of us have, but there’s some— there’s some cool things you can do with it too. And there’s actually some testing you can do to look for all these different infections, like Hidden Cavitation infections. In the oil pulling, there’s some cool literature on like Silver and coconut, and all that, helping with like oral bad guys.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. Vitamin K, too, is gonna be excellent for root canal stuff. Of course, collagen. Your teeth’s gonna be— have protein as well. So, good collagen peptides is gonna be excellent as well.

Evan Brand: Uh— last question here from Roslyn. “My SIBO test results are Methane 60+, Hydrogen 20; probiotics do not agree with me.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Imagine, Roslyn. Are you also constipated, too? Can chime in there? Methane— typically, he put in a Methane diameter and a more constipated Hydrogen, dominate more diarrhea. You’re still positive on the Hydrogen, too. So you may have a— you may also alternate with the two. So, if you can Chime in there fast and let us know what your motility is like, I can answer you more specifically.

Evan Brand: Yeah. And we’ve used that ___[30:51] Formula. It’s got some of the Quebracho extract in there, which can help drop Methane.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Quebracho. [crosstalk] Love it.

Evan Brand: Quebracho. Sounds like a part here something. I don’t know.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I love it. It’s great.

Evan Brand: Like if— If Roslyn doesn’t get back to us, then we’ll just assume that if Probiotics are not agreeing and Methane’s that high.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, of course, you know, if let’s say she is more constipated, then we would do things like ginger and natural prokinetics to keep things moving. We use ginger tea. Uh— maybe some of the Iberogast formula to keep things moving. Another support I used, called MotilPro, which is excellent. And then, we work on knocking down that bacteria. We probably hold off some of the probiotics if it makes it worse. But we’d make sure things are moving. Maybe even some uhm— Magnesium citrate to keep things moving too.

Evan Brand: Yep. Good advice. Vitamin C, too. You could pump by, what? Two to five grams or so. Vitamins C. That should be enough to move the bowels.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Probably a little higher than that, but yeah. I mean, I think, two maybe a little light, but definitely five to eight, five to nine will probably move it for sure.

Evan Brand: Okay, cool. Uhm— more more question here. Why can’t my eyes handle bright light? It could be due to the adrenals.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Adrenals, yup. Hundred percent.

Evan Brand: Typically, weak uh— weak adrenals, so definitely get your adrenals tested and looked at some of the adaptogens to help handle bright light. Like the people, you know, especially the women who come out of the grocery store. The first thing they do is pop down those sunglasses on and they just can’t live without them. That tells me adrenal problems.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I agree. Hundred percent. Alright, cool. I think we answered almost everything. Would spore probiotics Just Thrive be enough to repopulate to the  gut after the Kill phase or should you rotate the— I would rotate other strains. I’m not familiar with Just Thrive. I’m a big fan of MegaSporeBiotic. We have it on our site, justinhealth.com/shop, under Gut Section. We’ll put the links in the Show Notes. I like that one. There are a couple of others that are out there that are really good. I know uhm— Primal Defense by Garden of Life is a decent one. I like the MegaSpore, though.

Evan Brand: Yep. Cool.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And then, Sue says, “My—” ‘Kay. So, I don’t know. Yeah, so that’s about the Pheocytochroma. Not sure if you have. That’s a tumor. So, you’d really want to get that uhm— resolved there with your doctor. But you’ve got to go on  like anti-cancer protocol for that. Uhm— hope that helped guys. Any other questions, comments, or concerns, Evan?

Evan Brand: I think that’s it for today. If people want to reach out. Schedule a consult with you. Check out Justin’s site, justinhealth.com. You can book a consult with him. If you like to book a consult with me, either of us, we’re happy to help you. You can just check us out; evanbrand.com is me. And make sure you subscribe to the YouTube channel here. We’re what? Thirty three plus thousand so— [crosstalk] Let’s get Justin up to fifty grand, you guys. and then a hundred, and then a million. So, subscribe, subscribe, subscribe, and share, because sharing is caring. And Education is the first step to greatness. How can you approach this stuff if you have no clue. You can’t. You got to learn, and then you can apply.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. And just so everyone know, if you’re listening to us on YouTube. You know, we have the conversation and the video kind of going back and forth, so you can see our ugly mugs. But we also have the podcast link, and we are recording our podcast in super high audio quality. So, if you want to upgrade the audio, feel free and subscribe to our podcast channels. Again, we’ll have them in the show notes if you listen to Evan or I. We have the upgraded audio for you and that’s only been the last month or so. So, we’re really trying to up our game, guys. We want to make sure you get the best information at the highest quality on your fingertips.

Evan Brand: Yeah, so that’s on iTunes. So, look up Justin Marchegiani, or just type in Beyond Wellness on your iTunes or podcast app. And you can subscribe there. Cool thing I’ll tell about, Justin, iTunes just released a Podcast Analytic so now we can check and see our people actually paying full attention for the full episode or is everybody stopped listening after 20 minutes. Now we can see the drop-offs. That’s pretty neat. And then, for my show, it— just type in my name, Evan Brand, and you’ll find it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. I think if you go to evanbrand.com, there’ll be a link for your podcast. If you go to justinhealth.com or beyondwellnessradio.com, there’ll be a link there for the podcast. Click it. It will bring you to the button where you can subscribe. And then, we’ll make sure you get updates as soon as you can. And then also, if you’re listening on YouTube, smash the bell. YouTube’s doing some funny things you’re not gonna get the notifications if you are subscribed. So, hit subscribed and then smash the bell right next to it. That way, you’ll get all the notifications. And we’re gonna try to continue dropping lots of knowledge bombs. Let us know. Give us some comments below the channel if you’re listening on YouTube about this. We want to hear some of your concerns. We’re gonna work on responding on them a little more. And also, we want to get more feedback on what you guys want to talk about. So, let us know. We really want to engage you and bring more information. You know, our goal is to help, you know, ten million people. So, you know, we’re doing in the thousands range right now. We want to help more. So, allow us to help you by figuring out what your needs are and let us help you fulfill it, okay?

Evan Brand: Amen. We’ll see you guys after Christmas. So, I hope it’s good for everyone.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Merry Christmas to everyone. Happy holidays, too. And hope you guys have a happy healthy New Year. And check out our hacking the holidays podcast. Lots of good solutions there so you guys can kick butt, stay healthy and not get sick throughout the holidays.

Evan Brand: Amen, brother.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey, Evan. great chat with you, man. You take care and Merry Christmas.

Evan Brand: Take care. Merry Christmas. See you.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Take care. Bye now.

Evan Brand: See yah.




Jonathan Wright’s Protocol by Dr. Jonathan Wright

Steven Harrod Buhner

How To Boost your Immune System So You Don’t Get Sick – Dr. J Live Podcast #163

Dr. Justin Marchegiani and Evan Brand talk about immune health, which is such a relevant topic this flu season. Learn how sugar contributes to a weakened immune system and find out why vitamin D is important in supporting one’s immune system.

Discover some of the natural herbs and supplements to boost your immune system. And gain valuable information on topics like root canal, Raynaud’s phenomenon and glutathione in connection with your immune system.

In this episode, we cover:

02:13   Sugar and the Immune System

11:30   Glutathione IV

16:34   Supplements to boost Immune System

18:30   Raynaud’s Phenomenon

19:24   Root Canal



Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Dr. J is here. Evan, what’s going on, man? How was your weekend?

Evan Brand: Weekend was good as always. Hannah, my wife, showed me a picture. You are out there a waterskiing. She said like, “Is he freezing?” I said, “I don’t know. I have to ask him.”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, man. It was phenomenal. I mean it was like maybe 65 minutes cold when you’re in colder water and you come up and the air hits it. But I had like a 3 to 4 mm uh— wetsuit and I am getting or I should say waterproof gloves and socks for next week. But I plan on waterskiing every weekend of the year that I’m here in Austin—So that is—January as well.

Evan Brand: That’s impressive. Who drives your boat?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh—I get one of my—my buddy here in Austin as well. He skis as well. So we both kinda just take turns.

Evan Brand: Uhh—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: He’ll drive, I pull him and vice versa.

Evan Brand: That’s a lot of fun.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: Well, we’re proud of you for getting out there and practicing what you preach. Getting sunshine, getting movement, getting immersed in the elements of the earth and water and sunshine. That’s great.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Totally. And also, you get the cold water thermogenesis going, which has some really good health benefits activating that good brown fat really up regulates metabolism, uh— lot of good HPA axis stimulation when you’re exposed to cold like that. So that’s pretty cool.

Evan Brand: Awesome. Awesome.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Awesome.

Evan Brand: We’re gonna chat about uh— immune health, immune function. Know, this time of the year everybody starts coughing and getting sick. It makes you paranoid makes you want to wear a mask everywhere you go, uh— which I don’t do, but I want to stay healthy. I don’t want to get sick, so that’s a big topic that we can hit on. Oh, look! Look! Speaking of—Samuel just commented. He just got over the flu. So there we go.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Look at that. Exactly. Exactly. So, I got an article we’ll talk about here today. It’s called, “What to what to do when you get sick?” Part one and part two. So if you go to my page here, you can grab that link by putting the— you know, what to do when you get sick in the search bar. We’ll put links, too, below these in the podcast as well as the YouTube videos, so you can access any of the things any supplements or any products or any of the material. Uh— really easy access for you. So, we’ll make sure that’s put in the reference section down below.

Evan Brand: Alright. So, I think we should hit the food sensitivity immune piece. I feel like a lot of people, if we use the immune system bucket analogy, a lot of people have their bucket full already due to food sensitivity. So do you want to open up the conversation on it?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. One of the big things is glucose and vitamin C that they look very, very similar to the body. So when you take excess amounts of sugar, especially refined sugar and you increase your blood sugar, uh— that can actually have a effects on decreasing vitamin C absorption or decreasing vitamin C activation. So, vitamin C binds to receptor sites on the macrophage and helps with uhm— you know, the stress of dealing with infections or you’re—you’re basically little pacmen and women gobbling up crap inside your blood stream. And vitamin C’s important. And if you have a lot of sugar in there, that’s gonna impede vitamin C from doing its thing. And sugar also has effects in suppressing the immune system, where they looked at vitamin C absorption or vitamin C activation over time period and you can see that you have significant immune decrease when you’re consuming refined sugar especially excess amounts refined sugar. And don’t forget, refined carbohydrates or more starchier carbs can convert to sugar. So if you were more in the insulin resistance side, that can—even—too much starch can really throw you off, for sure.

Evan Brand: Yeah. Now, what about the testing aspect of immune health? I mean, you’ve got your conventional doctors where they’ll run things like your white blood cells, where we can see things that get affected. If someone’s have like a chronic of virus or something that’s affecting their immune system, we’ll see like the white blood cell count drop. Uh— what else could we see conventionally? Would— would like the DHS ERP? Would that be valuable as uh— immune markers? Is that just gonna be completely and another ball field due to due to its inflammation?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So if we’re talking like an acute like winter flu kind of thing, you really don’t have time to do a lot of testing. I find that the faster you act on whatever is going on, the greater chance you have of reducing getting sick. So, of course, we have the diet and lifestyle components, right? We have get more sleep. Your immune system sucks up a ton of energy. So when you’re trying to kill a bacteria or virus, you really want to make sure your immune system has extra reserves. So get more sleep coz you’ll be more tired. Number two, decrease the refined sugar and excess carbohydrates from your diet, especially grains and refined sugar and alcohol, right? Uh— number three, I would say once we have the stress and the sleep and the diet on board which is kinda like everything, we would then move towards supplements. And of course, we have one our favorite things is medicinal mushrooms. So I am a big fan of Reishi or Cordyceps. You could even to Chaga as well. Doing these at 1 to 2 caps per hour too is a phenomenal way to boost up and up regulate your immune system.

Evan Brand: Yeah. I take mushrooms pretty much every day. I’ve been doing the uhh—an adrenal tincture. That’s Ashwaganda, Reishi, it’s got Chaga, Cordyceps. I basically take all of it together. I wanted to hit on the piece of vitamin D. Many people get their vitamin D check with their conventional docs and their levels are at 20 or 30 and that is just not high enough. And we had a question here from Prince about vitamin D from eggs and fish. “Is that enough or do we need to supplement?” Oh, no, he didn’t ask that. He said, “Do we need exposure to sunlight?” Yes, of course. If you can get exposure to sunlight, that’s great. But you know, there is such thing as a vitamin D winter. So if you’re at a northern latitude like in the Pittsburgh, you’re not get much vitamin D from the sun. So, maybe an hour a day. So, a lot of times it does take supplementation. Dr. Mercola, he prides himself on not having to supplement with vitamin D, but he lives on the beach in southern Florida. And he is out for three hours a day walking on the beach almost naked. So, he’s one exception, where he can omit supplementation. But for most of us, you know, that’s what it’s gonna take to get us into the optimal level. We know when we’re talking about flus and colds and all that, vitamin D is not at the optimal range. That can be a huge factor.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, 100%. A hundred percent. So, off the bat, there is a couple things here. So we talked about vitamin D makes a big difference. Uh— one of the things we do is we’ll do vitamin D hundred thousand IUs which is a lot of vitamin D for three days. That really up regulates your immune system and up regulates these antimicrobial enzymes call cathelicidin. And they gobble up bacteria. So, high-dose vitamin D is one thing I do. We’ll do the medicinal mushrooms called Reishi. You know, Reishi or Cordyceps. I created—I formulated a blend called Immuno Supreme. And that’s a good blend of that has got Monolaurin in there. I have a Monolaurin Supreme as well you can use by itself. Monolaurin is nice because it can gobble up virus, digest the viral envelope. It’s kind of like uhm— viruses use the viral envelope, so the immune system can’t see them. It’s kinda like Harry Potter when he puts on the invisibility cloak. No one can see him, but when it’s off, you can see him. Well, same kind of thing with your immune system. Viruses have their own invisibility cloak. And the Monolaurin helps break it down. We’ll add in the Reishi or the medicinal mushrooms like the Reishi, the Cordyceps, or the Chaga, right? Those are super, super helpful. They get the immune system up regulated. I talked about the vitamin D hundred thousand IUs. I also make note of the vitamin C. We’ll get the vitamin C are pretty high as well, maybe 8000 mg 9000 mg which is equal to eight or 9 g daily. You know, just below bowel tolerance.

Evan Brand: So the Monoluarin, would you use that more like a spot treatment if something comes up? Or are you saying you may even do that throughout a winter season?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Great question. So, off the bat, let’s kinda like break things down into symptoms or let’s just kinda give you like a general scenario. So, this morning, I woke up, my throat’s a little bit dry. So, my wife had the heat on a little bit higher in the house. Sometimes the heat could do it. So I’m kinda like, I’m on high alert. So, of course, I am smashing my adaptogens, right? I’m hitting up a lot of Ahswaganda right now. And I’m gonna go crush some vitamin D a bit.  And I’m also gonna go juice some fresh ginger. I’m also drinking some apple cider vinegar drinks. I kinda do some apple vinegar shots throughout the day coz that really grabs a lot of the mucus off the back of my throat, which is helpful. I’m gonna go make some fresh ginger tea. Ginger shown to have positive effects at knocking down biofilms and it has effects at preventing viruses from heating or adhesing onto the various cell walls. So keeps the viruses from sticking, so to speak. And it really helps the immune system against viral activation and it helps the lymphatics. So, keeps things moving, better lymphatics is gonna help my macrophages, you know, the little Pac-Man or woman of your body, gobbling up crap, right? So that’s helpful. So doing those things— the Apple cider vinegar, uhmm— the ginger tea, uh— the vitamin D, and course, I start to slam the mushrooms, too, because the medicinal mushrooms get your immune system like up regulated. It’s like saying it’s like taking the army, right? Or the snipers and putting them on high alert. They’re all like perch above, they’re looking down, they’re looking for anything that comes out to move, right? So that’s kinda what I look as the medicinal mushrooms are doing. It’s really getting the immune system ready.

Evan Brand: Now, how about Monolaurin? How would you compare and contrast that?

Is that, do you cycle on? Do you cycle off? I mean, what’s your take?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s a great question. In Immuno Supreme, we put Monolaurin in there. So, there’s a little bit in there, but it’s not gonna be at like a therapeutic level, where if you were to take it by itself. So if you have a sneaking suspicion that there’s a virus going around, right? And you know there’s some kinda virus that’s in the area, your kids bring it home, you just know, right? It’s flu season. You’re thinking it’s a virus issue. Then number one: I’d be hitting ginger tea. Number two: I’d be using the Immuno Supreme, okay? Number three: you can add in— you can add in additional medicinal mushroom, okay? Number four: you can throw in some silver and number five: you can throw in some Monolaurin by itself. I’ll typically do between 2 to 5 things depending on what’s going on. So number one, if I’m under a lot of stress and I start getting sick, then I’m like, “Crap, I need to really hit it hard.” Coz I know my immune system’s more stress. If I’m more relaxed and there’s not a lot of stress going on and I’m sleeping really good, and I may just choose two or three things to start with. So and if I know people around me are coming down with the flu, then I’ll hit more things to help with the flu. Silver, medicinal mushrooms and of course, I’ll hit the Monolaurin by itself— couple of grams a day. 3-4 g a day.

Evan Brand: I like turkey tail. I wanna make some Turkey tail mushrooms. I have been using those a lot, too. And also, Astragalus. We love Astragalus, so I use it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Astragalus is one of those herbs that kinda has an adaptogenic effect. And it cleanses the blood, too. And I will use that by itself. So I like five or six things in my medicine cabinet. I just stocked up last week ordering like three or four bottles of Reishi. Come the holiday season, I actually start adding in medicinal mushrooms that support my immune system at a low dose. I’ll do about  3 caps today. And if I start to feel anything, that goes from 3 to 12.

Evan Brand: Yup. That’s good. We got a question about glutathione IV for a healthy woman in her 40’s. “Is it worth it?” “And how often should I get it?” I’ll speak on it first and hear your take Justin. Uh— I’ve seen hundreds of times on the organic acids test and there’s actually some literature on this, that if you’re taking your precursors for glutathione, like you’re N-acetylcysteine or your vitamin C even in oral form, that you can actually boost up glutathione. So needing an IV if you say you’re a healthy woman, I just think it’s overkill. And it’s probably not necessary unless you just had some crisis thing going on and you needed a quick IV for it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Great. Great point, Evan. So let me lay it out. There’s two scenarios, right? Scenario number one, is working with the functional medicine doctor as a long-term plan. From a long-term strategy, glutathione IVs are very expensive over a long-term. I mean, if you’re looking at like $30 $40 an IV, and you’re doing that couple times a week, long-term it’s not— it’s not a really good cost-effective solution. I much rather be using glutathione precursors and/or liposomal glutathione over a long-term kinda functional medicine program, okay. Number one if it used punctuated-wise because you’re in the middle of a—a heavy metal cleanse, or you have a lot of mold issues in your home and you’re using it as a punctuated circumstance, or you’re traveling, you decided to go to one of these natural clinics and get an IV coz your traveling and you’re under stress, that’s fine. Punctuated, short-term specific reasons it makes sense. Over a long-term, I don’t think it’s the most cost-effective because there— number one: you get stuck every day. Number two: it’s a little bit expensive. You’re better off using the precursors in the liposomal glutathione moreover the long-term. But I still see value in it and I kinda just outline those scenarios why.

Evan Brand: Yup. For sure. Uh—I’d say can we zoom out a bit. Let’s do like a 30,000 foot view of other things that could be affecting or suppressing someone’s immune system like dysbiosis in the gut, bacterial overgrowth, parasites, the candida issues, adrenal issues, heavy metal issues, liver detox problems. These are things that we see every single day in the clinic by running organic acids and stool testing. If you’ve got parasites or you’ve got chronic bacterial infections like H. pylori that’s suppressing your ability to make stomach acid, you’ve got the list undigested food because of the H. pylori that’s affecting your gut barrier creating leaky gut, therefore allowing the immune system to get under attack and create autoimmunity. So, I think from like a high point of view, outside of just the seasonal illness stuff this time of the year, if you haven’t approached and tested for your infections, your heavy metals, your detoxification markers, now’s a good time.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I think it’s great. So, you know, looking where you’re at, I mean, most people that they’re not gonna stuck their medicine cabinet up with maybe five things, but I’d say let’s look at two things, right? So number one, I think the vitamin D is really important just because based on where the Earth’s latitude, the angle of that is at the this time of the year, it’s lower or its less direct, so you’re gonna have less UV exposure, so getting vitamin D is really hard. So getting the vitamin D up. And I went over the acute protocol for it. 100,000 IUs for three days. And step number two is some kind of immune booster. So, if you’re just a regular everyday person and you’re taking some adaptogens like I’ll just take more Ashwagana, which is great immune boosting benefits. Or if you want to add something in additionally, I recommend a vitamin—higher dose vitamin C, bioflavonoids and/or medicinal mushroom or if you want a multi-tasker, in my line Immuno Supreme is a good one. And I’ll put my link below and I know you have couple that you like in your line, Evan. We’ll make sure we put the link for those, too.

Evan Brand: Speak on the testing. Let’s talk about this. I mean, dysbiosis. If you got gut infections, you’ve got parasites, bacterial overgrowth like this is something in your bucket that you can take all the Reishi in the world, but if you’ve got infections, you’ve got infections—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right. So again, there’s the zoom in and zoom out, right? So, over the long picture, over you know, over the— over the long run, big picture, we want to create a comprehensive functional medicine protocol that involves supporting the adrenals, fixing the gut, fixing the absorption, which then helps the detox, which then helps the immune system, right? So when that— in the long run, this is ideal, okay? But in the short run, people are like, “Hey, I want to be more natural. I want to be more holistic. I don’t want to— you know, get a vaccine or flu shot or you know beyond a synthetic NyQuil or whatever these drugs are that just control the symptoms. I wanna actually get healthier, but I don’t have time to jump into a functional medicine program. I’m starting to feel down now. What the hell do I do?” So the herbs that I mentioned they’re kinda like the quick fix in the short run. And of course, the easy things you can do in the short run, too, is cut all the sugar out, cut all the crap out, really increased nutrient density, more bone broth, ginger tea, right? Lots of good greens. Those kind of things. Lots of good healthy meats and fats. That’s you know— the diet stuff, the sugar stuff and then we talked about a couple supplement stuff. And in the long run, the goal will be to get you out of functional medicine plan, where we address all the other barriers that you mentioned that would enhance the immune system over the long run.

Evan Brand: For sure. I would give a couple other mentions, too. Uh— zinc can be helpful. You don’t have to go super high with zinc. You could do 15 mg of zinc –

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Evan Brand: Uh—and then there’s also some elderberry, which you don’t necessarily have to do long-term and then uh— Echinacea, too. You could bump some Echinacea up for a couple weeks and zinc, Echinacea, Elderberry. Uh—I’ve even seen your—your B pollens or your B propolis can be cool. Uh—sometimes, people are doing a little bit of the Manuka honeys, but sometimes it can be abused. So, I think those are couple good.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. We try to __a lot of great info about—you know, actionable info. And again, a lot of people are doing this. We’re putting it out there so everyone can kinda listen to what things, you know, really resonate. And I’ll put a link of some of these products that we—you know, I provide. Evan can do the same as well. So if you want some things that we formulated, we personally use, you can check what we have or you can go look at your local health food store and see what is near you as well. But that gives you a pretty good perspective there. Of course, big picture is we want to get, you know, fix the underlying issues. Short-term picture is here are some immune things that we can do to boost you up in the short run. So, today, I already hit the Reishi up and I’m gonna go hit some vitamin D up. I’ve already hit the Ashwaganda up and I’m gonna also hit my Immuno Supreme up as well. And I’ll do the Reishi again, three capsules around lunchtime and I’ll do three around dinner and before bed. So, I’m doing 12 a day right now just to make sure I’m up regulated. And also, I got my bedtime set tonight for 9:30- 10 o’clock. And I’m gonna get—I’m gonna sleep till probably eight, which is a little later than I normally do. So I’m gonna get a good 9-8, you know, 9-10 hrs. 10 hours, I’d say tonight to really make sure I recharge my body.

Evan Brand: That sleep is—I mean, sleep is free, too. So that’s always good and it actually has a huge effect. You could take all the supplements in the world, but if your sleep is terrible and you’re scrolling on Instagram till 2 AM, that’s bad. You’re not gonna be healthy. You’ve gotta—you’ve gotta address the lifestyle, too. You wanna answer a couple of questions here? We’ve— we’ve got one about – as we get deeper into winter the temperature, gets colder what you recommend for Raynaud’s phenomenon, cold hands, body’s—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You gotta fix the Raynaud’s phenomenon. That’s typically associated with autoimmunity, where it creates a vasospasm in the extremities and the vasculature spasm and then, you don’t get the blood flow there. So it gets colder and you can like, you know, make a motion on your finger and it just stays. It just stays there coz it’s not circulation. So, typically, there’s a thyroid component or an autoimmune component. I’ve seen these hundreds of times, where we actually get to the root cause and that tends to get better on its own.  So that is going to be— there is the symptomatic approach, which is get some better gloves with some heat warmers in there.  Root cause approach is functional medicine program that gets to the root cause: leaky gut, autoimmune, thyroid issues, for sure.

Evan Brand: Yup. Well said. A question about root canals. Person had a root canal removed, taking antibiotics. Suggestions on supplements to take after I’m done with antibiotics. I wish we could’ve prevented the root canal coz there’s a lot of issues with three canals. But you got it removed, so that’s good. Uh— suggestions on supplements to take after done with antibiotics. I mean what’s your take, Justin? There are so many—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Definitely good quality probiotics.  Ideally, we want to avoid root canals at all cost.  And again, if we get a root canal—Ideally, you want to have an extraction. You don’t want the tooth to be there because it’s basically like a diabetic who was a gangrenous limb and he just—you hollow out the bone and then there’s the skin flap there. It’s kinda like that, if you will. Coz what happens is the tissue is there. The tooth is there. But the immune system for that tooth is now gone. The circulatory and the immune system’s gone. So it’s where bacteria and viruses tend to hide. They go where the immune system isn’t, right? They’re pretty smart. They’re stealthy, right? They’ve been around millions of years and they have mechanisms to figure that out. So they’re gonna hide in that tooth cavity and you’re not gonna be able to touch it because the— now the bodies don’t have the capacity to reach the immune system that far, so—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. They’re scary. Dental stuff is huge. We should probably get a couple functional dentist on the show.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’m gonna get in my end, Dr. Joan Sefcik in Austin, I’ll get her in and we’ll chat about – we’ve that we’ve got a lot of talks about it. But, in general, if you had its root canal and it still there, do some oil pulling to help act like a magnet the pony crud that could be there. Uh— I’ll look at tooth meridian chart and see where that tooth’s meridians on. What meridian, what organ system or neurological pathway it’s on and see if there any symptoms that you’re dealing with that time up in regards to the root canal and those organ systems and see if anything resonates there. And then number three: try to get ahead of it. Prevent it. If you’re listening and you haven’t gotten to try to prevent it. And number four: I would say potentially look for an extraction and then maybe a bridge option coz that way, you’ll at least have something in there that’s you know, bacteria and viruses are not gonna be able to live in like a sterile ceramic or sterile surgical steel type of implant.

Evan Brand: Yeah. But uh—for this person who had already taken the antibiotics, I would just say that you’d want to do—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Probiotics right now.

Evan Brand: You’d wanna do the probiotics. And I would say the leaky gut support, too. So you and I both have leaky gut formulas.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Evan Brand: It could be helpful. So things that have the slippery elm and the marshmallow root. I’ve got one called the GI Soothe. What’s your—what’s your version called?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. GI Restore. Uhm—that’ll kill the viruses. Gargle it for 1 to 2 minutes and then swallow. In that way, it’s gonna be heading in that inner around that area, where the— the work was done. So if there’s any infection that’s held for sure.

Evan Brand: Yup. That’s good advice. Uh— supplement about HCl. Can you get an ulcer from HCl?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes, you can. If you have atrophic gastritis and your gut lining’s already really thin and you’re taking Hydrochloric Acid, it can definitely create irritation to the point—especially if you’re trying to work it up to tolerance. You’re trying to push it higher thinking that’s better. Then that could definitely create an issue there. So, of course, number one, if you’re feeling burning or irritation, don’t do that and back the dose often. Of course, take it with food. And then number two is adding some of the healing nutrients that Evan and I talked about. Whether it’s the the Gastro Soothe the G.I. Restore or something that has an L-glutamine kind of uh herbal anti-inflammatory support formula will really help with the gut lining.

Evan Brand: Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Marshmallow, chamomile, all those things are great. A lot of L-glutamine of course, bone broth and ginger tea is also great, too.

Evan Brand: Cool. Awesome. We’re good. Well, I think we— I think we hit it all. Riley had a question about the vagal tone essential oil. Yeah, it’s helpful, Riley. It’s a good. It’s an essential oil formula and it works. So, it’s something else to have in your toolbox.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes. One of the herbs that are in there may be frankincense or lavender. Evan Brand: I have to pull—Let me pull it up—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: A lot of these things what they’re really designed to do like a lot of the essential oils just help you relax a little better and the more your relaxed, meaning your—your nervous system kind of down regulates. There’s little bit less adrenaline flowing, your heartbeat’s a little slower. You can kind of relax, you start breathing a little bit deeper and it shifts your nervous system into a parasympathetic type of state, which is the rest and repair.

Evan Brand: Rest and repair. Yeah. What makes sense.—so this has got peppermint, Roman chamomile, nutmeg, so lemon balm and ginger.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Ginger is really great. You know, anti-inflammatory. Peppermint is great as well. Excellent for inflammation, too. Really helps relax you. Uhm— you mentioned chamomile’s really good for the gut, too. And then, what else? Yeah. I think there’s a lot of good things in there.

Evan Brand: Yeah. I sold quite a lot of it. So, I mean, it’s definitely a helpful—a helpful thing. I don’t think it’s a miracle cure, but it’s a good—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Is that a product that you provide?

Evan Brand: It’s a good thing to have. I do. Yeah. Ameo

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, you like it?

Evan Brand: Ameo is like—and I’ll send you—yeah. I like it. It’s good. I’ve got some at home. I use it. It’s cool. I’ll send you the link and—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I have one or two. I have one by Doterra called Balance, which is good. There are some other ones I think on guard is a really good immune boosting one. You can take a couple of drops of On Guard and put it in some water and drink it. That’s really good immune booster. And also, too, if you’re traveling, you’re gonna be on an airplane, get your immune support boosted up because you’re just in a tube with a whole bunch of recycled air, right? And you know at least 10% of the people on that plane are probably actively sick and coughing and hacking, right? And that air just get totally recycled. So I’m always like, “Oop!” You know, I’m getting my immune support going, right? I’m predicting the worst when I get on an airplane. So my immune system is ready for the assault.

Evan Brand: Agreed. Agreed. And a couple questions—“Can you take immune supplements with food?”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup. Yup. Yeah.

Evan Brand: You sure can. “Do herbs contraindicated each other? Like oregano and Echinacea?” Anyone—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I don’t—I think you’re okay. Typically—

Evan Brand: Yeah. I was gonna say typically not. I mean there’s a couple cases where you know, you can’t mix medications with certain herbs, but even that, is—is not too big of a deal. Look up drugs.com and you can type in your—your pharmaceuticals and you can actually compare that—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s cool. And also, you just got to be careful. The big contraindications tend to be ones that have effect blood thinning like ginger is a natural blood thinner. And like if you’re going in for surgery, there gonna want you to be off blood thinners. That would include like ginkgo or ginger or fish oil. So you just have to be very wary of it if you’re going in for surgery. You just have to look up and make sure a lot of the herbs that you’re doing aren’t having blood-thinning effects because you don’t want to be cut open and then bleed more. That’s not good.

Evan Brand: Yup. Yup. Cool. You wanna hit that question on brussel sprouts?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Lots on the sulforaphane and the buzz about Rhonda Patrick for detox, immunity and general health. I think you’re referring to Rhonda Patrick. I think she’s on the Joe Rogan show just a little while back. Uhm— but, yeah, I mean, I think a lot of those cruciferous vegetables are great. There’s not a lot of refined sugar and such. So it’s not hurting your immune system. It’s a whole bunch of added nutrients for detoxification, which are great. Lot of antioxidant, which are great. Run those detox pathways better. I think there are a lot of good things a lot of good things about it. Again, I would need to know a little bit more about uh—detox immunity because it’s a lot of things that we use for detox and for immune health and gut health that we mentioned. And again, it’s not gonna all hinge upon broccoli or cruciferous vegetables. That’s maybe one small component. A lifestyle component, too. So, I wouldn’t hang my hat on all that.

Evan Brand: Uh-huh. Agreed. Yeah. I would say it’s helpful. I’ve done my own sprouts, too. I’ve actually purchased uh—some sprouting equipment. I’ve done it myself. I know Mercola talks about he does sunflower sprouts and stuff. So, yeah, is it a needle mover? I mean, maybe. It’s maybe 5% of the equation. Could it help? For sure. It’s not gonna hurt you. And it’s—you’re getting a lot more bang for your buck out of sprouts as opposed to—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. And again, uhm— Charlotte asks, “Should you take biofilm disruptors and antimicrobial herbs at the same time?” In my supplement protocols, we always have ginger tea as an option that I—I push and suggest coz ginger is highly effective at disrupting biofilms. So, I’m a huge fan of adding in good quality ginger tea. And then, Riley uhm—said any supplements for sulfurophane or broccoli sprouts? Uh— typically, I would just look for a really good organic ground-up powder substitute. And then you just take a couple scoops of it and throw it in your shake. So I would look for a really good, organic substitute. I know we have one that we use that a special order called Paleo Greens. That’s one that we use. If you needed that as a special order, you could email the office and we could provide an invoice for you. But that’s one that we use. We look for organic. Uh—we want make sure we’re not throwing a whole bunch of concentrated pesticides and that you know, a wide array of green vegetables that we like, too.

Evan Brand: Yeah. There’s a patented version called__

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s a different one.

Evan Brand: And it’s like 8% sulfurophane and there’s a couple different professional healthcare companies you’d have to get it through practitioner, but there some out there that are in extracted uh—broccoli sprout with I think it’s—let me tell you what it is—one capsule you get the equivalent of 500 g of fresh broccoli or 100 g of sprouts. So, I mean this put sprouts to shame, to be honest.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: Because of the concentration.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s great.

Evan Brand: Also to you too, excellent chat here.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it.

Evan Brand: I think that’s all the question. We’re probably good.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I just want the people to have the big picture is the big picture is get your immune system looked at and supported. 80% of your immune system lives in your gut. So making sure your digestion good, you’re infection free and you’re not adding in nutrients are not adding in toxins or excess sugar that’s gonna shut down your immune system. And then of course the sleep and then from there, that’s the big picture. Short term, we can always add in some of these natural herbal medicines that have been around for thousands of years to really get your immune system up regulated. And again, take a look at my article, “What to do when you get sick” part 1 and 2. There are some great options there.

Evan Brand: Yeah. Make sure you’re not too stressed, too. Make sure you’re not overworking. If you’re working 60 hours a week, I don’t care how many supplements you take. It’s not gonna—not gonna counteract it. You can’t out supplement your way out of a bad lifestyle. So, make sure that’s addressed and you know, if you’ve got bad people, get rid of them. If you got a bad job, try to change it. You know, there’s—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. And one thing you can do, too, is get one of these apps. Like here’s one called, “Calm” Another one called “Headspace” Every couple of hours when you get stressed, do a 2 to 3 minute meditation, right? Maybe five if you have five.

Evan Brand: Yeah. It’s a piece of cake.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Like after this call, I’m gonna do a quick 5 minute meditation. And then I’ll get back into generating maybe other video after that and seeing patients in the afternoon. So the more stress— stressed you are kinda leverage now in the technology that’s out there to help get your parasympathetics more activated. Evan, great chatting with you.  Again, we talk about supplements. Take a look at some of the suggestions that we made in the reference section and also give you some ideas of your out uhm— abroad and you can kinda look at things that gives you good __ to choose from.

Evan Brand: If you’re listening on YouTube, make sure you hit subscribe on Justin’s channel. Subscribe. Subscribe. Subscribe.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: YouTube is not giving people a lot of notifications. Hit the bell and then you’re– you have a higher likelihood you get notified.

Evan Brand: The algorithm—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Cross that bell and then you get all these little tip that say we drop them up. Evan, you take care.

Evan Brand: You take are.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Alright. Bye everyone.



Why You Keep Getting Sick, and What You Can Do about Those Flu Symptoms | Part 1

Why You Keep Getting Sick, and How to Boost Your Immune System | Part 2

Justin Health Immuno Supreme

Justin Health Monolaurin

Justin Health GI Restore

doTERRA Balance Essential Oil

doTERRA On Guard

Paleo Greens

Ameo Essential Oils



Natural Solutions For Dandruff Fungal Overgrowth – Dr. J Live Podcast #162

Dr. Justin Marchegiani and Evan Brand talk about dandruff in today’s podcast. Learn what causes it and explore other possible underlying health conditions like gut infections involving bacteria, yeast, fungus or parasites.

Gain an understanding on how functional medicine practitioners approach this kind of problem including their clinical strategies and the testing involved.  Get very helpful information regarding the products that they have found effective to address dandruff and the supplements they recommend to improve health conditions related to dandruff issues.

In this episode, we cover:

06:32   Antibiotics and Dandruff

07:27   Fungus and Refined Sugar

14:25   Birth Control Pills Effect and Dandruff

23:03   Hair Loss and Thrush Issues

32:16   Glutamine and Leaky Gut

Just In Health iTunes

Just In Health YouTube

Evan Brand: Weekend was great. Life is good except for the weather—rainy, cloudy cool. Fall is here officially, but what can you do?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool. My wife and I brought our new baby to his first wedding. That was pretty exciting. First wedding with the new one was fun and he did a great job.

Evan Brand: Oh, good. Ain’t it great when you go out on public and the baby is good, isn’t that great?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Totally. How’s your baby doing?

Evan Brand: Oh, she’s great. She’s actually— she’s got her molars coming in.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, wow!

Evan Brand: So she’s very incessantly crying this morning. Uh— but wife texted me and said the baby knocked out. So naptime is a good time. That’s great, man. Very cool. Well, we chatted kinda in our early part of the show talking about what we’re gonna talk about today, really. And we kinda discuss that dandruff is a big issue that’s been coming up in our clinical practice. We want to talk about kinda what is and just some of the clinical strategies that we utilize to approach it and to help address it from a root cause functional medicine perspective.

Evan Brand: Yeah. Something I think we should hit on first is what’s the conventional approach is? Is it dermatologist that people are getting refer to? Like what’s the rabbit hole would you say that people end up on with the dandruff problem?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So dandruff typically uses excessive shedding of kinda the skin on the scalp. And it tends to be fungal driven. Of course, there are natural diet things that help, right? Good fats, good proteins, like the digestive, the hydration component. All those things are important, but the infection component is really important because you can have the diet stuff all dialed in and that may not be enough to get rid of that infection component. And sometimes the— the fungal overgrowth that—that’s there could be there from a deeper infection. It could be there from H. pylori or blasto or deeper parasite infection. So, it’s important we keep our eye on what could be there in the scalp area, but also what other bigger infections could be promoting that overgrowth.

Evan Brand: Yup. So, if you go to conventional doc and you just happened to bring up dandruff, what are they going to do? You think they’ll just refer you out to a dermatologist in then they’ll give you some steroids for it?  What would the conventional approach be? That way we have something to contrast it to our functional medicine approach.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. So your conventional approach is gonna be head and shoulders or sell some blow. That’s gonna be the general conventional approach. They may give you uh—a uh—you know, systemic antifungal medication that they see other kinds of things happening there. That’s gonna be the general consensus.

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So the first thing that we’re gonna look at is we would probably lean more towards a anti-fungal kind of shampoo that’s herbally-based like tea tree or lavender or uhm—neem. These are some of the really good antifungal shampoos that are out. We’ll put some of the links below couple of the ones that I like are Art Naturals and Purely Northwest. We’ll put some links below here, so people can access them. We—I use those in my clinic a lot. You can also just get some pure you know, apple cider vinegar. You can mix a little bit of coconut oil. You can even do a little bit a tea tree and put it straight and kind just gonna do a little scalp massage and get right there in the scalp. That can be helpful, too. Uhm—but  some other shampoos that are out there that already to go. So that’s another good option for you. Just, if you don’t want to have to deal that.

Evan Brand: Cool. So let’s talk about testing. I mean this is always our philosophy. “You’ve got to test, don’t guess.” If you’ve got a fungal issue, we talked about parasites. So we want to look into the gut and in the organic acids testing. Wouldn’t you say that be an important one for this, too?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I like the organic acids because because you can kinda look at fungus that may be more systemic. So when we look at a gut test, we may see various species of fungus in the gut. We may see Candida. We may see geotrichum yeast. We may see other types of Candida species. These are different species of yeast. And again, yeast is like the big umbrella. Fungus is the big umbrella and then we have some species of yeast there kinda under that big umbrella of fungus. So fungus is the big umbrella, yeast is the— the smaller kind of umbrella. And again,s mold like different molds that you may see like aflatoxin mold or ochre toxin. These different compounds are also kinda under that fungus mold umbrella as well, right?
Evan Brand: Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So getting to your question—Those are some of the big ones that you may see. Now, the benefit of the organic acid test is we have some markers that are more systemic base. So we have the D-rabanose. It’s an interesting marker that looks at fungal overgrowth from a systemic perspective. So, sometimes we see people to get the stool test back and they’re maybe okay from a fungal perspective, but when we look at the organic acid urine, we may see that the D-rabanose is on the higher side which tells us there maybe some kinda fungal thing going on at a systemic level and sometimes we may see it systemically but not on the gut. So that’s a good marker, too, for treatment.

Evan Brand: Yep, cool. Yes, so, Justin and I, between us both, we run thousands and thousands and thousands of stool and organic acids testing. I would say, Justin, tell me if your assumption is different. Nine out of every 10 people have a yeast and/or a fungal problem. Whether it’s to the level which can cause extreme issues or not. Maybe it’s not nine out of 10 that have an extreme problem, but someone somewhere, nine out of 10 is gonna pop up with something that needs to be addressed in that category

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. 100%. I think there’s some –there’s always some gut component. I would say the majority is a gut component. And most people with a gut component, uh—yeast is gonna be present. I find that yeast as the primary issue isn’t more common—it’s—actually less common, I should say. Where it’s more common is there’s a deeper, infection like a parasite or bacterial infection that’s of a higher level.

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And yeast is kinda there, kinda like you see these sharks and you see these underlings that kinda suck to the shark’s belly.

Evan Brand: Yup, right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: They’re kinda like that. They’re just there as the underling and you get these bigger, stronger kind of critter that is the primary focus.

Evan Brand: Oh, by the way, I don’t know if this is true, I heard from a client of mine last week, supposedly, diagnostic solutions is coming out with a new panel that can be added to the GI-MAP where we can actually test for worms including pin worms.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s awesome! I’m really excited. Worms are definitely a concern. I know we’ve talked about, you know, we use –we add in worm wood. We added mimosa pudica, various herbs like that to help with a lot of these worms as well.

Evan Brand: Yeah. So, that’s true. We’re gonna have some really good extra clinical nuggets in our hand.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hundred percent.

Evan Brand: So—I wanted—I wanted to mention antibiotics. So, somebody does have dandruff and we could also convey that message to other issues with the hair, the skin, the nails.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Evan Brand: There’s probably a history of like a urinary tract infection, right? So like these yeast and fungus that you’re talking about. If that’s affecting the vaginal area for a female and they get put on some type of natural antifungal or probably a conventional anti fungal. That stuff’s gonna come back with a vengeance. They may end up doing antibiotics therapy, too. And that’s not good. That’s gonna create a lot of room for the yeast and fungus to overgrow and  all of a sudden, you’ve got the clean up crew that has to come post-antibiotics.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hundred percent.

Evan Brand: We’re not big fans. Like if you can avoid antibiotics, if your life is not in danger, then you could probably go ahead and say skip them and go to the natural remedies instead.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: A hundred percent. So of course, the big thing when we deal with any type of fungus is really cutting out refined sugar. So, if we could look at our carbohydrates, we kinda draw a line down the middle. We have like real food carbohydrates on one side of the fence, and then we have refined sugar carbohydrate with extra added sugar to the carbs on the other side. So, basically, draw that line, anything that’s refined sugar, we throw out, and then the left side, I kinda break it down into starchy, non –starchy, okay? So, starchy being like sweet potatoes, squash, white potatoes. Non-starchy could be our veggies, uh—broccolis, brussel sprouts cauliflower, kale. Those are our non-starchy. And then basically, we have our high sugar fruit and our low sugar fruit.  High sugar fruit are gonna be more tropical things—bananas, pineapples, mangoes, right? Those kind of things. Then we have our lower sugar fruits— berries green apple, grape fruit passion fruit. Those kind of things. So we try, number one, stay on the non-starchy carbs primarily. And the low sugar fruits. So typically, 1 to 2  servings a day even on an anti-fungal approach is gonna be okay. Some people they go to the excessive and cut everything out but there’s some clinical evidence that these fungal critters may go into the spore-like state where they’re now kinda in  hibernation mode. It may make it harder to kill them. So, we’ll actually have 1 to 2 servings of fruit in there. We may even actually up the carbs even more during the killing to bate them out. We want to wake up that bear so it’s not hiding in its cave  all winter, uh—so we can hunt them down, so to speak.

Evan Brand: That’s a great point.  So if a ketogenic— if a ketogenic diet has been the norm for someone, we may need to bump up carbs a bit, maybe add a little bit of fruit back. And there’s been a lot of demonizing of fruit lately, which I’m just not really a fan of that. I think there’s a  lot of value there.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Again, it’s all individual. If you’re super over weight, you have  a lot of markers for insulin resistance, your  waist size is greater than 40inches for male, you know, up 20 pounds too much weight on there, then, yeah, that may make more sense to limit it or at least focus on the lower glycemic, low sugar variety, right? Low fructose variety. Maybe  keep  that fructose below 15g a day. That makes sense. But if you’re pretty active and pretty healthy weight, I’m fine with it. Hand—couple of handfuls about a day, that’s not a problem.

Evan Brand: Yup, good. So you mention the diet peace, now, some talk about diet as if he could cure you of these problems. I mean, I don’t  really agree there where if you just follow this Candida diet, all of a sudden your problems are going to go away.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think if someone is like, you know, they’re kinda like dipping their toe in the functional medicine field like, “Is this worth it?” Well, just start with the diet stuff and see how much you get accomplished with that. If someone is having a lot of refined sugar and a lot of refined carbohydrate, right? Remember that line I drew? Refined carbs and then whole food carbs? If they’re having a lot on this side and they cut that out, they may see a significant improvement, which is great. And they may cut the grains out as well, which is great. But uhm—that maybe that last 20 or 30%. Or if there’s a deeper infection, uhm—that will have to be removed as well. So if it’s purely a fungal overgrowth that you may see a good improvement, but there may be some stuff still lingering. If that’s the case, then we got to dig deeper. Put on our clinical hats and you wanna definitely reach out to someone like myself or you, Evan.

 Evan Brand: Yeah. Well said. I guess my point—I wasn’t trying to pass the diet piece. I guess my point is that a lot of people sell these books, promoting certain diets as if you can magically eradicate all of your gut problems. For me I got maybe 80% better so I dealt with IBS for probably 10 years, maybe even 15years. I mean, I had always had irritable bowel problems. Once my diet was better, my gut problems were there, but then when you first took a look at me, you said, “Evan, you’ve got parasites. And that’s something that no matter how much kale and broccoli I ate, I wasn’t going to get rid of parasites.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Or grass-fed meats. Yeah. Exactly. I get that. So, we’re kinda biased because we see a lot of people that already come to us, they got their diet on track and we got to dig  deeper on top of that. So, I get where you’re coming from, for sure.

Evan Brand: Yeah. But the low hanging fruit that is the diet. And then we—we’ve, you know, Justin and I often have people that come to us that have been doing like a Paleo template or even like uh—autoimmune Paleo and they’re still sick and that’s where you say, “Okay, good. You’ve got the diet in place. It has to be in place, perfect.” Now, let’s dig deeper and that’s where we gonna find this other stuff.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hundred percent. So we hit the uh—we hit the fungal component of dandruff. We talked about the excessive shedding of the skin on the scalp. You know, a lot of babies have it. It’s called cradle cap or seborrhea dermatitis, tends to be fungal-based. Again, with my kiddo, or just really giving just real, good-quality breastmilk, but also what the mom eats has a huge effect on the breast milk.

So my wife has kinda have a good Paleo template, really on point. We give our kid probiotics as well. He gets the infant strain probiotic. I know your daughter did the same thing as well, which helps a lot, too. And surprisingly, our baby’s had you know, zero acid reflux, zero spit up. So I think that that’s really made a big difference as well.

Evan Brand: Cool. That’s awesome. Yeah. So mom’s listening, this could apply to babies, too. Now, do you have any evidence on this? Like a mom passing a yeast or a fungus overgrowth to the baby via breastmilk? I’ve heard that was Lyme’s disease and co-infections, you know, the spirochetes can pass through the breast milk but I just wonder about you know, the yeast. Could you pass a yeast through the breastmilk?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, that may or may not be the case. I’m not really sure. There may be some data on that. Uh—my biggest concern is a lot of the infants that are gonna be fed formula, if you look at a lot of the ingredients, it’s about 50% high fructose corn syrup.

Evan Brand: Oh, God.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: If you look at the amount of sugar that’s in a lot of these uhm—formulas, it’s the same amount that’s in a Coke.

Evan Brand: Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You just gotta be careful because that’s not really the best thing for your child. And then a lot of it is gonna be GMO, too. And there’s evidence of uh— Mercury on getting into a lot of these high fructose compounds due to the extraction process. That’s not good either.

Evan Brand: Wow. So I’ve talked with a couple practitioners who do like a microscope—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Evan Brand: When you look at the blood and they’ve seen little—little balls of yeast basically in the serum of the blood. So I just wonder, “Huh, wonder if any of that actually gets into the system where— where mom pass it to the baby or not.” Well, I have to keep asking, keep digging. That is just my curiosity, but—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think it’s a really great question here. And I’ve I think clinically, it makes sense. I see a lot of women that have poor gut issues and their child can get it.  You know, they’ll get thrush with that white coating, so to speak. And they’ll get kind of a yeast issue where they get a lot of kind of a diaper rash stuff and that can happen as well. Like with our child, we’ve had no real yeast issues not even any diaper rash. We just kinda—like a couple of times, my wife will put a little bit of coconut oil there. We have some natural stuff. Yeah, we put there. But outside of that, he’s—you know, my son Aidan has been doing great on that side of the fence.

Evan Brand: That’s great. All right, so we hit the diet piece, we talked about antibiotics as a potential problem leading up to this. I would say birth control pills could be a factor, too. I’ve have had a lot of women— I don’t know the exact correlation or causation. I don’t know if that’s doing something with progesterone and estrogen that—that’s causing the dandruff for what it is. Do you have a take on that of why  birth control pills could be a factor?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Birth control pills have an effect of alkalizing. So we can alkalize the urinary track. It has effect in alkalizing the guts and fungus likes to be more in an alkaline environment. And now everyone’s like “alkalize your diet” right? Well, a lot of these bacteria and we’ll just say fungus’s and bacteria, they like more alkaline environments. If you look at what probiotics do, probiotics actually add acidic load to the intestines. Like if you look at acidophilus, it literally translates to acid loving or acid producing. If you look at a lot of the really good fermentable drinks, a lot of them are very high in various acids, whether it’s glucuronic acid or uhm—

Evan Brand: Acetic acid.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Acetic acid, which is the main acid in apple cider vinegar and it’s not a surprise that acids like apple cider vinegar are used to treat fungal issues in the hair or they’re used to treat UTI issues as well. People will then utilize the Apple cider vinegar before meal to help with digestion and also acidify the urinary tract, too. So, a lot of these things are very helpful to decrease the critters and it changes the environment in the gut. So, good probiotics actually spit out more CO2, right? They spit out more of these really good acids to help get the gut into an environment PH wise with these critters can’t thrive, so to speak.

Evan Brand: Ahh. Okay, got it. Yes. So birth control pills, the antibiotics, maybe the prescription Diflucan’s or other prescription antifungals that you could’ve been on before making these strains more resistant. We talked about the sugar in the diet we talked about the gun infections, looking into those for bacteria and yeast fungus, parasites, getting your gut check with functional testing, not conventional testing. We talked about getting the urine organic acids for looking into the yeast and measuring it that way because stool test often gives us a false negative.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We may even look at blood, too. We may look at candida antibodies like IgA, IgG, IgM. We may see those on the higher side, which could just mean there’s more of a systemic issue. And it’s nice to know because if we don’t have any gut stuff going on or we don’t even see any organic acids stuff, you know, typically, you’ll see some organic acid. You’ll see the D-arabinose there.

Evan Brand: Yeah. So what do you say to a person when they say, “Oh, Justin, can I just go buy a bunch of herbs and just start randomly throwing stuff from the kitchen sink at this problem and see if it works?”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, the bigger issue is most people that have these symptoms, they have a whole bunch of other things, too. It’s very rare that you’re like, “Oh, my only chief issue is dandruff.” Or some kind of fungal issue, right? It’s mood, energy, sleep. If you’re female, there’s probably some cycle imbalances, whether it’s menstruation issues or mood issues or breast tenderness, back pain. Whatever’s happening there and then you have this. So there’s a constellation of the different things happening. And body systems, they function and dysfunction together. So, imagine a beautiful orchestra going, right? And one instrument starts going off. Let’s call that one instrument our fungal overgrowth or uhm— our scalp kind of a dandruff issue, right? That’s our one symptom. That’s our one imbalance. Well, it doesn’t take long before the rest of the orchestra starts singing out of tune as well.

Evan Brand: Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And that’s what I’m referring to when we talk about the other hormonal issues that go out of balance. And then when we start having gut issues, then we can start having more leaky gut, which then can create more immune stress, then we can have more malabsorption and low stomach acid and enzymes and nutrient deficiencies, which then affect neurotransmitters and other hormone pathways. So you can see how this thing can really spiral out of control pretty fast. So, that’s why it’s good always digging deeper to really get a good body system audit of all the other things that are happening.

Evan Brand: Yup. Well said. I’m so glad you—you said it so eloquently. I did a rant at the end of my podcast that I put up last week and I just told people like, “Look, please, don’t wait until you hit rock bottom. Don’t wait until every body system is falling apart and then you reach out.” Like you and I work with those complex cases all the time. But if you’ve got one thing like it’s anxiety or little bit of depression or little bitt of gut issues or little bit of skin issues, it’s so much better to start getting tested and start digging deep then, as opposed to waiting until you’re symptoms list is 20 pages long. You’ve been suffering for 20 years, then you hit rock bottom, then you decide you want to get better. I’ll tell you, it will save people a lot of money and a lot of suffering if once you see these problems a little tip the iceberg poking out, address it, then don’t wait until like you said you’ve got anxiety, depression, PMS, irritability, mood swings, rage, poor sleep and dandruff to top it all off.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hundred percent.

Evan Brand: Please. And that’s not even to benefit us. It’s to benefit you. You know, we’ve been so booked up that we aren’t necessarily begging you, “Hey, please come see us.” It’s not like that. It’s the fact that, “Hey, look, I just want to save you some suffering and save you some time.” Justin and I came from our own health journeys as well and if we could just give you one piece of advice and maybe I’m not speaking for him, so I’ll let Justin give his— his feedback, too. But If I could  say one thing, it would be if you’ve got a weird symptom, there’s probably some other stuff going on that you just have to find and fix.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hundred percent.

Evan Brand: Like me, I had to wait until I’d lost about 25 pounds. I had terrible sleep. I woke up, I wasn’t feeling rested. I had a lot of stress. I had some anxiety problems even to the point of a panic attack. I called Justin up one day, “man, my heart’s beating out of my chest. I can’t stop my heart.” You’re like, “Well, how much stress do you got going on? I was like, “ a lot” And he’s like, “how are you sleeping?” I’m like, “haven’t been sleeping very well” and then he’s like, “what’s going on with your gut?” and I was like, “Oh my Lord, every body system is affected” My gut has been affected, my brain, my stress response is broken. I was like, “this ain’t even me, I’m even an anxious person. What’s going on?” And you go, “Oh, it’s parasites, Evan.” So, for me, I had to learn the hard way. I had to wait until my symptoms piled up so much that I was falling apart to then fix it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hundred percent agreed. I think we’re at that the point in our careers where we realize that there’s probably uh— more people out there that we see online with the you know, the millions of downloads we get every few months, that were not gonna be able to help anyone— everyone, so to speak. And there’s just too many people out there to help that— you know, we really want to put as much free content out there and if we can just get most of the people to just apply the free stuff, that is going to be huge. And we’re gonna make a huge difference in the world just by itself.

Evan Brand: Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think we’re really just getting really good actionable information and I think the key thing I want to push to everyone listening, if you can walk away with just one action item, “Hey, I’m gonna do this.” or “I’m gonna add this component.” or “I’m gonna add this diet shift or this lifestyle change, or this supplement change” I think that you’re gonna make yourself better and healthier after every podcast.

Evan Brand: Agreed. Cool. Do you want to hit some questions for a few minutes?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. We’ve got some questions.

Evan Brand: Okay, cool.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Everyone writing questions, if you can kinda keep the questions framed towards the conversation, I mean, you know, you can kinda do a little politician pivot where you’re like, “Hey, dandruff” and then you’re on adrenals, right? We could kinda do that, so to speak. But I’m just trying to keep it connected to what we’re talking about as possible. If it’s so disconnected, we’re just gonna have to skip over the question.

Evan Brand: Yup, yup. Well said. Okay. Yes. So a lot of those were like off-subject questions. Let’s see.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I got one here about—let me see, I’ve got Gerald’s question here. Gerald was on my G.I. Clear 2, positive for H. pylori. I feel like it’s returned. If add Masika to the G.I. Clear 2 what dose should I take per day? Typically, two caps TID, two caps, three times a day and we need to retest, Gerald. Make sure the infection is gone. Make sure there’s no residual infections. We want to look a little bit deeper to at your partner or any dogs or pets in the house. Uhm— partner for sure is the easy one because that can, you know, you can go get that reinfected back and forth. So we need you to retest and then do GI Clear2 and the pure Masika, 2 caps TID and get that retested.

Evan Brand: Well said. Yeah. I had that a few weeks ago. A lady, she said, “I feel like my—my gut’s backtracked. I got off your herb. So, what’s going on?” and I said, “Well, now it’s time to test your partner. And sure enough, there is the H. pylori.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Evan Brand: That’s why she’s been getting re-infected. It took three rounds to get rid of it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.

Evan Brand: Alright, let’s go over to the next one here. There was one from Ovi. We’ll call it uh—I don’t know how to pronounce that full name. “Any tips on reducing hair loss and thrush when coming off of HRT as a female?”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So— that would be helpful to know. I mean, imagine, I’m just coming guessing this is menopausal female, okay? So, you know 53-54 and up. So depending on kinda where the hormonal imbalance is, it’d be good to know if there is an estrogen dominance present or if we’re just having low estrogen and low progesterone and everything’s kinda in the tank. So, typically, when I think hair loss, though, I’m leaning more on the thyroid side. So, I’d want to know where the female hormones are at or if you’re cycling or not. So, if you want to comment on that, that’d be helpful. Uh— number two, really looking at the thyroid component because the thyroid has a huge effect on the hair follicles, stimulating the hair follicle to grow.  And then number three is the gut component because that’s where we digest and break down a lot of the nutrients and amino acids and fatty acids that become the building blocks for our hair. So I want to look at those three places first.

Evan Brand: Well said. So I’d also add on looking at ferritin levels, too.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: See if there’s some type of anemia problem. You hit the thyroid so in—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And when I say thyroid, though, that includes all that consolation because iron is very important for making thyroid hormone, so if you have a history, if it’s menopausal female and she’s not vegetarian or vegan, doesn’t have a history of endometriosis or fibroids or excessive menses, it’s probably not an iron issue.

Evan Brand: Good. Good. And then when you talk about the thyroids, too, so this is also including the antibody. So make it sure that there’s no Hashimoto’s at play coz we see that a lot. Justin and I find that many people with autoimmune thyroid, the hair, like nine times out of 10 it’s a problem.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup. Exactly. We’ll add in collagen peptides, too. Just this collagen is uh—it’s just great. It’s a great building block and then if it’s in peptide form, it’s already super easy to digest. So, give a little plug for my Tru Collagen on that one.

Evan Brand: Yeah. Check it out. Alright. Gerald had a follow-up question for second round of H. pylori eradication, should it be a 30 day protocol or 60 days?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Typically, a minimum 30. You can’t go wrong with just a 30. It just depends on what other infections were present along with that, but if it’s just the H. pylori, let’s say 30—30 to 45 is typically good.

Evan Brand: Yup. Nice. Alright. Mossimo had a question here, “Are sustained-release essential oils and herbs necessary as opposed to the liquid oil taken internally? It’s kind of a confusing question. I didn’t know there was such thing as a sustained-release essential oil, but what were talking about for this conversation would’ve been like a topical. So like Justin mentioned about those brands of the tea tree oil shampoos and such—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand:  That would just be a couple of drops on the scalp. Use some type of Jojoba or avocado or coconut oil.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: And try to dilute that so it doesn’t burn your scalp.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. In my line, we have GI Clear5, which is an emulsified form of oregano. That is more enterically coated. So it does open up more in the small intestine than the stomach. A lot of the fungal issues tend to be more on the stomach. I’m sorry—

Evan Brand: Oh, yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It tends to be more in the small intestine. H. pylori more in the stomach. Evan Brand: Yeah. I forgot about the—the oregano oils.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Evan Brand: I guess when I read essential oils, I was thinking just like your standard oils that you diffuse.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s why I’d like to have some of my, you know, oils or some of my herbs taken on an empty stomach just so it can get fully out of the stomach into the small intestine where it can really help. It and really help can be little more effective.

Evan Brand: Yeah. Alright. So, Samuel had a question. “What’s your take on taking CBD with no THC for inflammation? I take it for the first time and noticed a huge difference in relaxation.” I’ll hit this one.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: I’m a huge fan. I just posted a YouTube video. If you haven’t checked it out, look it up, Samuel. I went to uh—a hemp form here in Kentucky one of the very few hemp programs that has been approved by the state government. And the guys making super high quality CBD and the guy is— so he used it on his son who is having hundreds of seizures per month and now the kid is like 12 years old and hasn’t had seizures in years just from CBD no THC. I think the THC does have benefit. I hope that there’s a couple of bills that are trying to get through for 2018. I hope we can federally just decriminalize cannabis across the board because I have talked with people, especially in the pain department, where when they add a little bit it of THC in, all the sudden their fibromyalgia or chronic pain does get better, which isn’t achieved just by the CBD by itself. So I think both would be awesome.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I’m not a huge fan of the THC side uhm— I think it can have some really good benefits if you’re going through cancer treatment and have extreme nausea and/or extreme pain and the CBD is not helping enough. I think it can be helpful like if we’re choosing you know, THC over chronic dose of the pain medication or opiate or like a lot ibuprofen, I will definitely reach for the THC component you know, over—over the rest. My biggest thing is just uhm— number one, there’s some potential memory side effects, cognitive side effects. Number two, I would say making sure that you’re not having to incinerate every time, right? Trying to do of a vaporizer or some kind of other medium that’s not involving the incineration, which exposes the poly aromatic hydrocarbons, the heterocyclic ABGs, the carcinogens that are produced. And uh—the CBD obviously is better just because it’s a less psychoactive, but if you can you know— epileptic stuff, autoimmune stuff, anxiety, mood stuff, the CBD for sure. THC more on the—if the CBD is not working and you need the pain or you have a lot of the nausea stuff that may be better.

Evan Brand: Yup. I mean with the THC, I don’t—I mean I’m sure there’s tons of people that still combust, but you really don’t even have to anymore. There are so many different drops and tinctures and potions and such that you don’t have to burn. You don’t have to burn the herbs anymore. And people don’t want to get high, too. So you could do like a 20% CBD like a 1% THC and you’d probably feel really good.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah. I hate the feeling of being high. I’ve only done it a few times in my life, but I’m tired and I just get the munchies. I’m fatigued and I just get really hungry. It’s like I don’t need that. I want to be energized and alert. And I think a lot of the negative studies on marijuana, too, is number one, you really have to make sure you’re not getting pesticide exposure.

Evan Brand: Exactly.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And you have to kind of faired out the burning and the incineration of the leaf.

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think if you pick, take those two components out, I think you’ll see a lot of those confounding variables showing negative results in those studies in proof.

Evan Brand: For me, a vaporizer change my life. When I had IBS, the only thing before I knew about by diet changes that help me was a vaporizer. It would slow down my bowels since I was having so much loose stool. It would regulate the bowels better stomach cramps, stomach pains would go away so I had a lot of hands-on experience— super helpful.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Go ahead, I’m sorry.

Evan Brand: I just have to say, I don’t vape anymore currently. One is it’s impossible to find a good source in Kentucky. Now, if I go to Colorado and I could find some good organic, high-quality, I’m gonna take a sample, that’s for sure. But for me, I just— I can’t find a good source here. So I do stick with the—the CBD drops, which is legal, too. You know, it’s another thing. It’s— it’s legal in all 50 states, the CBD is.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. And uhm—just kinda –I think a lot of marijuana, maybe not the CBD, because that’s more the— the non-psychoactive. I think a lot of marijuana is used you know, to cover-up emotional stress uhmm—you know to the kind of numb yourself out from whatever’s happening in your life. So we just gotta make sure that you’re not using it to avoid reality, so to speak. But there is a lot of drugs out there that are very dangerous and have a lot of side effects and kill a lot of people. So if we’re choosing marijuana over these drugs that kill a lot, I will always choose the drug that doesn’t have the profile of killing people, right?

Evan Brand: I’ll pick it over alcohol, too.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: If I had somebody say, “I wanted to drink a bottle wine every night” or “hit the vaporizer, do a couple of drops of a tincture” The alcohol for me is gonna be a bigger problem coz it’s gonna create the leaky gut situation.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I mean if you’re drinking excessively, if you’re having a glass or two and it’s organic, you know, you’re probably fine with that on the alcohol side. But if you’re going you know, four glasses a night and then it’s consistent, yeah, they’ve done studies. I think it was a Giuliani report they looked at like the highest ranked college students in the country and they say you know, what do you prefer, alcohol or marijuana as a drug of choice? And the kids that have the highest grades were choosing the marijuana and their main reason was the hangover. They could wake up the next day and studying, get their work done.

Evan Brand: Makes sense. Let’s see if we have any other on-topic questions here. Do you see any others?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: See here—see, we can find some things that we can connect to our little politician side stepped here.

Evan Brand: Gerald had one, about how do you know if you’re eating too many starchy carbs per week? I— I cycle like it depends on the week and depends on activity level how much I’m gonna do.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I mean it—I think 50 to 150 is a pretty good place for most people to be. And if you’re doing a lot of lifting or a lot of CrossFit, then you may need to go up to 250. So I think, look at your height and weight. If you’re at a really good height and weight, you’re gonna have more latitude. If you’re lifting a lot of weights, I think you can go up to 150 to 200. If you’re doing Ironmans or like you know, those, then you may have to go way higher than that. So I think you really  just figure out where your activity level is at. Figure out where your height and weight is right now. 50 to 150’s pretty good. And you earn your carbs. So you exercise more, you—and you’re lifting more weights, you can up your carbs a little more and just try to keep it whole food, you’re gonna be fine.

Evan Brand:  Here’s another question about glutamine. Should you take glutamine by itself to repair leaky gut or is it okay to combine with protein?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I mean glutamine is an amino acid, but if you mean like glutamine and then have real whole food protein, yeah, that’s fine. I mean in my line, we use GI Restore, which has glutamine and a bunch of their healing things and glucosamine and we’ll mix that and add in a drink, take it on an empty stomach and then patients will still have you know, a really good whole foods meal. Or we’ll add in the collagen as well which is very high in glycine. And glycine’s really good for the enterosite healing as well. So you can do either glutamine. I’ll typically only do L-glutamine by itself for patients that are very, very sensitive. We’ll typically add the healing compound in there, you know, the GI Restore, the all the other, licorice, aloe, slippery elm, glucosamine, right? Modify—We’ll all those in together and if that’s causing too much sensitivity, then we will do L-glutamine by itself. But they gotta really be sensitive if that’s the case.

Evan Brand: Yeah. And that’s— I find that pretty rare. The glutamine by itself to me, it just doesn’t move the needle as quick as the combo products like you talk about.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Only if there’s an allergy issue. And then, the collagen is great. Glycine’s a really big building block for healthy gut function, too.

Evan Brand: Nice. Bone broth, too. I think that’s another—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That is very high in glycine, too. Yup.

Evan Brand: Cool. I think that was it. There were bunch of other questions, but a lot of these were super off subjects, so I don’t want to distract from the convo too much.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah. So—

Evan Brand: The others—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think we kinda hit everything. I want to go off to— you know, off to uhm the kind of the __ James here talks about this just kind of the cost regarding the organic acid test and keeping it low. Typically, if— if you’re trying to keep the cost down with the organics, let’s do the test once a year. You know, do it once a year. Ideally, if you can do it uhm— twice a year, that’s ideal, but if not, you can just do it  once a year. That’s kinda your—your best bet kinda just fine-tune your program once a year with the organics. That’s probably the best way to make it more cost-effective.

Evan Brand: Yup. Well said. Gerald said that we guys are the best. Change his life. Hey, Gerald, thanks. We appreciate it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhm—Gerald is actually a patient. Glad we could help, Gerald. That’s very good. And one last question, too. Diana talks about doing a podcast on estrogen dominance and progesterone therapy. Hey, you’re kinda—you’re too late. Check out the podcast’s show notes. We did a podcast on estrogence dominance and we talked about progesterone and __ augmentation programs that we do with progesterone therapy, too. So check out that podcast, Diana.

Evan Brand: Yeah. Go on either uh—Go on Justin’s YouTube. That’s probably the best if it’s posted there or to check out his site Justinhealth and just type in estrogen. You should find it either way.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And if you guys enjoy this right now, the best way you can thank us is give us a thumbs up, post, share on your twitter and/or uhm— Facebook. We love it. We just want to help more people and you notice, it’s a lot of people that are out there podcast people, they either hold information back or all they do is spend oh, you know, 90% of the time promoting their products and affiliates. I think 95% of our time is just free intel. Of course, we got a little plug here and there, but we’re 95% free information because we know there’s too many people out there that need all this info and we’re just gonna be an open book to everyone.

Evan Brand: Yup. Totally. So, we hope it helps. And if you need to reach out, schedule a consult with either of us. For Justin, check out his site. Justinhealth.com You can look up and click the book an appointment button. Myself, same thing. Evanbrand.com Check us out. Stalk us. Study us. Look under every crevice and corner. Read our reviews. We’re here for you. We’re happy to help if you got this issue going on.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Leave us comments below. Tell us what you like about the podcast and tell us about future podcast that you want to hear. We’re reading them and we get inspired by those comments below. So say, “Hey, I like this about this podcast and I want to hear something about” And tell us that topic we’ll add it to the queue.

Evan Brand: Yes, sir. Good chatting with you.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Everyone, have a great day. Take care.

Evan Brand: Take Care.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Bye.





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Leaky Gut and Autoimmunity – Dr. J. Live Podcast #161

Dr. Justin Marchegiani and Evan Brand dive into a discussion about the link between gut infections and autoimmunity. Gain knowledge about leaky gut, how it occurs in the body and it’s connection to Hashimoto’s.

Explore the different stressors which affect gut health and contribute to a weakened immune system. Learn about Dr. Justin’s 6-hour template, which includes his expert recommendation regarding healing, nutrient and supplements.

In this episode, we cover:Leaky gut and autoimmunity

00:34   Leaky Gut and Autoimmunity Connection

04:05   GABA and the Blood Brain Barrier

06:48   Hashimoto’s and Gut Health

12:23   6-hour Template

22:40   Thyroid Health: T3, T4




Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hello, ladies and germs! Dr. J in the house. Evan, how we doing, man? How was your Holidays? How’s your Thanksgiving?

Evan Brand: Holidays were great. Let’s dive in. I know we’ve got a short limited of time. But we’re doing this on the fly because this conversation of gut health and gut infections and autoimmunity is huge and hardly anyone is talking about this. Conventional doctors don’t have a clue about the link between gut infections and autoimmunity, so dude, let’s dive right in.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That sounds phenomenal. So we talked about in the show, kinda chatting about leaky gut and autoimmunity, which is really important because leaky gut is kind of like one of the primary mechanisms of autoimmunity kinda starting, which is kind of gastrointestinal permeability cells in the gut called the tight junctions. They start to unzip, kinda like you unzip your coat on a hot day and undigested food particles can get in there in this kind of creates this uhm— cascade of reactions call molecular mimicry, where certain food proteins— the surface proteins on these foods are similar to surface proteins of the thyroid or the brain or the pancreas, the beta—the beta cells of the pancreas, whatever. So you have this kind of immune system getting primed to similar proteins in foods which then prime the immune reaction for the immune system. It starts attacking these tissues in the body. So that’s kinda one of the first defenses is this autoimmunity leaky gut, molecular mimicry and that while they gut’s leaky, you have undigested bacterial compounds also getting in there, too. And then kinda just perpetuate and windup that immune system. And then also make it prime to—for other infections that kind of slip in there because the immune system now has weaken. Other infections can slip in. And typically, we’re gonna have a lower stomach acid environment so you’re gonna have less sterility in the stomach coz that low pH really prevents a lot of bacterial and critters from growing. But now that pH is like, you know, it’s like walking over to the dirty picnic tables and normally you spray it down with maybe some bleach. Or let’s say in a healthy version, maybe a really good antimicrobial essential oil. But now, we don’t have that because of the stress from the gut.

Evan Brand: Yup. Well said. Now, Hashimoto’s for example, is probably most common autoimmune condition that we’re going to see and deal with and that probably you guys listening are aware of. Leaky gut has to take place for Hashimoto’s to happen. That’s one of the dominoes that happens. So you’ve got the leaky gut situation. You possibly got the gluten in the diet. You got the immune stress, which could be internal or external. So bad boss, bad spouse, bad relationships, bad job— those are kind of the big dominoes we see. And when you all those up together, that’s how you get autoimmune disease. It’s really just that simple.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. And then we have people on the live chat here. And again, this is a great reason why you should subscribe to our YouTube channel—justinhealth. Uhm because we have these podcast going live as well and we’ve also incorporated other technology in the background to get a higher quality audio versions. So if you want better audio, you can subscribe to Youtube, but also check out our podcast uhm—Evan Brand, notjustpaleo and then beyond wellness radio myself. So just keep that in the back of your head. And then your question was—I just missed it. We talked about—Oh, yeah! Leaky brain. Leaky brain is connected as well coz we have these live questions coming in. And so we are multitasking like it’s no tomorrow. So leaky brain’s important because we have these called astrocytes or the brain blood or the blood brain barrier which is kind of the interplay between systemic blood and then the passing over to the brain. And we have the cells called astrocytes. And again, same thing, when we have gut lining integrity, it tends to affect integrity of the lungs, integrity of the sinuses, integrity of you know, vaginal wall area, urinary tract. So you have people that have gut issues—gut integrity issues. It almost always can cause sinus issues, brain fog, brain issues, UTI issues, bladder issues, right? So you have all of that mucous membrane barrier, it’s gonna be compromised throughout the body not just the gut. But the guts kind of that first major domino that falls and then everything else tends to follow along with it.

Evan Brand: What you think about the GABA test for the blood brain barrier, where you take like a 500 mg GABA and if it works and you get relaxed, that says you have a leaky brain. Do you agree with that?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’m not sure I buy that because I’ve seen people that do—that are really healthy and that do well with GABA.

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And they, you know, symptomatically, they’re doing pretty good. They’re eating well. Again, certain supplement companies have kinda put that out where they have a GABA challenge. They say, “Hey, GABA is this really big amino acid compound and it shouldn’t go through that blood brain barrier; therefore if it does, that means your major blood brain barrier is permeable.” I’m not sure I buy that. I think it’s something to keep in mind, something to try. I have a lot of patient that have gut issues and they’re sick and that use GABA or will only give them GABA and they don’t notice much benefit either.

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, you know, how do you sparse that? That’s hard.

Evan Brand: I know. Who knows, man. That’s a good question.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Everyone tries to be a little bit trendy and nuance in this functional medicine field.

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Because they wanna make a name for themselves.

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And I get that from a marketing perspective, but just looking at the clinical application, I’m not sure there’s ton.  But, heck, if you have GABA and you want to try it and you get uh—benefits, that’s great. I notice a little bit of improvement with GABA. Like when I take it, I feel little but relax. I also do that with Ashwagandha as well. I feel it with magnesium. Someone chimed in and asked if magnesium can be taken with Ashwagandha. Yeah, sure. I’ve no problem with that.

Evan Brand: Works great.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hope everyone’s listening had a great Thanksgiving, too.

Evan Brand: Yeah. Tesa wants to know, “Have you reversed your Hashimoto’s, Dr. J, by healing the gut?”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, so we have to be careful when we say reversed, right? So have we decrease the inflammation? Have we address underlying issues that made people susceptible to having autoimmune attack? And we—can we lessen those and decrease them to the point where we are no longer symptomatic because we have the inflammation down or quench enough? Yes. I’m just very careful because you know, eyes in the skies and people listening in they’re— they’re looking for that the cure the cure-all word, right? We just got to be careful. We don’t cure anything. We support the body’s ability to—we support the underlying stressors that cause the issue to begin with. And we support the underlying systems that weren’t functioning well. And then the body can start to get these symptoms under control because the symptoms are just a manifestation of the symptoms— the systems not working. Symptoms occur because systems aren’t working. Systems breakdown because of underlying stressors. As functional medicine doctors, we come in, we fixed the underlying stressors, we support the systems that aren’t working and then the body starts to heal itself, right? The body’s on autopilot. We just got to get the stressors in the systems work. If the system’s working, then get the stressors out of the way.

Evan Brand: Yup. Well said. So you had some— you had some gut bugs and things going on, do you care to talk about your story for a minute with the – Hashimoto’s?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I have—I have a low level of Hashimoto’s kinda in the background, I had elevation antibodies TPO and thyroglobulin antibodies and you know, I had some adrenal stress going on. And I just really worked on fixing the gut issues, which I had a handful parasites—Blasto, uhm— yeast, significant yeast overgrowth and H. pylori. Addressing those, fixing nutrient issues to help with the antibodies, fixing the digestion, fixing gut bacteria balance is of course working on stress reduction, sleep, all those important diet and lifestyle things. And again, the antibodies for me are just still slightly elevated, but there they’re in a range where you know, functionally my thyroid is not beaten up to the point where I need any thyroid hormone. My TSH is in a pretty good place and my T3 levels are pretty good. I actually have to go on for test real soon. So, yeah, I mean it’s possible to—to address the stressors and the system dysfunction to the point where you may not— you can call yourself cure. We just won’t call you cure for me, a functional medicine perspective.

Evan Brand: Yeah. Agreed. I need to get my thyroid panel run to. You’ve been pushing me to do it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. You should.

Evan Brand: I need to do it. I mean you and I both have had these infections. I had H. pylori as well. I had a Crypto, Giardia and yeast and Pseudomonas Aeruginosa.  So, you know, that’s a fun thing about Justin and I. We both had all the things that we deal with in the clinic. So when you guys are looking to work with somebody, it’s— to me it’s a lot more honorable if you’ve had somebody that’s been in the trenches themselves, where we had to fix us to keep going to help other people. I think that’s always pretty cool. Uhm— what else I know we would have limited time, but what else should we mention here about kinda this autoimmunity piece, the gut piece. We mentioned the leaky gut, we mentioned some of the triggers just in a roundabout way. So Candida, bacterial infections, parasites, H. pylori, low stomach acid, gluten in the diet, dairy, possibly eggs, other food sensitivities. These could all contribute to that permeation of the gut barrier; therefore, causing the situation.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hundred Percent. So, let me just kind of answer some of the things that you’re talking about while injecting some of the live questions we get. That’s the reason why the show is so unique compared to other shows coz we are off-the-cuff. This is the real deal here. So some patients are talking about having a lot of mucusy stools, right? And uhm— wanting to know where they should go for help, right? Of course, I recommend coming to see either myself or Evan, but typically one, we want to make sure food allergens aren’t driving this, right? Number two, we want to make sure we have enough digestive support on board to help those foods be broken down enough. So if there’s fat maldigestion issues, of course, adding in more bile salts or more lipolytic enzyme, right? Lipase— things like that. Uh— protease—proteolytic enzymes, right? These are all really important. And then, of course, once we can have the deck kinda dialed in, if foods are still a problem even with that, we may make them more palatable. We may go with more crockpot kinda GAP specific carbohydrate kind of eating template, where the foods are just easy—more processed via cooking, they aren’t raw, they are peeled or mashed. We’re decreasing salicylates and phenols and potential gut irritants so those foods can be consumed better. And then, of course, we’re gonna look deeper at the hormones because hormones have a major effect on inflammation and energy. And a lot of people that have gut issues, their guts are inflamed, we have to support the inflammation of the gut lining. And then, the big one is getting rid of the infections.

Evan Brand: Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And that’s where you know, we’re probably go next.

Evan Brand: (laughs) Yes. You’re right. So uh—Cent50 here, who asked the question. Yeah, the loose, mushy stools, I mean that was me. I had Cryptosporidium, I had Giardia, I had H. Pylori, I had bacterial overgrowth. Until my gut issues were addressed, just FYI, I had IBS for 10 or 15 years of my life and conventional doctors had no solutions for my—my stools. And it wasn’t until actually cleared out the infections that my bowels and my stools became normal again. And so, yeah, you got to get yourself tested. Justin and I run several different companies. Uh—stool testing just depending on you know what—what we’re looking at. But, yeah, get a comprehensive stool test. Your conventional doctor may be able to order through your insurance, if you tell them you want diagnostic solutions Lab, it’s unlikely. You probably have a functional medicine guy like us to run it for you. But either way, once you get the diagnostic tool, you can fix this pretty quick.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: There’s a lot of healing nutrients. So like, when we work with the patient, we kinda follow that 6-hour template— template that I’ve created over the last decade or so. There’s a lot of ones that are out there— three hours, four hours. In my opinion, a lot of them stink and they’re the wrong order. So the six that I’ve created and began to follow as well, in my opinion, is the exact clinical order which I follow things. So the first hour is removing the bad foods. And again, it’s not cookie-cutter because that maybe just getting someone from a standard American diet to a Paleo template. That may be taking someone from a Paleo template to an autoimmune template. Maybe someone on an autoimmune template and the Paleo template taking them to a GAPs or specific carbohydrate diet or low FODMAP template. I had patient last week who’s been Paleo for three or four years—chronic pain, chronic issues, chronic mood issues, chronic sleep issues. We took him from a Paleo template to an autoimmune-Paleo template and all of the symptoms went away in one week.

Evan Brand: That’s it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: This is someone that’s like already been on point for a long time and we just pulled out a few foods. So we have those— that kind of progression because you’d be surprised, the smallest things that we do have a huge effect. And it’s like, whoa! you would’ve thought I would have created the awesomeness protocol ever and found a you know, this hidden infection that everyone missed and got rid of it for that kind of improvement to happen. But sometimes it happens, we’re just removing some food. So, first, I remove the foods, second, I replace enzymes, acids, digestive support, bile salts, too. Third hour is gonna be repairing the gut lining. It could be also repairing the thyroid and adrenals and sex hormones, too. Fourth hour is removing infections. That’s where we go after— bacteria, parasites, uhm—fungal overgrowth. Those kinda things. We may even go after co-infections future podcast on that soon enough. Fifth hour, repopulating or reinoculating probotics. Some of these nice and beneficial bacteria. They’re transient. They only hang out for a month or so and pass on. So, getting some of that it in there periodically is helpful. Sixth hour is retest. We want to make sure infections are gone. And maybe even address family members too to make sure they are not being passed back and forth you know, playing hot potato.

Evan Brand: Yup. Well said. Riley asked a question about—he said, “Evan is your IBS completely healed now after addressing anything?” Uhmm—kind of a confusing question about addressing anything. Yeah, I don’t have IBS anymore. I’m infection free, no more H. pylori, no more parasites, no more bacterial overgrowth, no more yeast overgrowth and I feel good and feel completely normal, which was an amazing thing because after so long, you know, it took me to be so long to get here.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. And with your situation, right? Like if you start eating bad foods again and your immune system got compromised, you may have another critter or two that pops back. You may have some inflammation from the food and such. And then those symptoms, they start coming back, right? So it’s not like a cure, like, “Hey, you have scurvy. Here’s vitamin C.” And then as long as the vitamin C is there, you’re good forever, right? It’s like, “Hey, there may be other stressors that may cause the systems to weaken again and those IBS symptoms start to occur, right?”

Evan Brand: Oh, Totally! Yeah. I mean I could go— I could go out to a restaurant and get some type of contaminated food and all the sudden creates a leaky gut situation. Maybe I pick up a gut bug, maybe I was eating while stressed during a week and I didn’t chew my food good. And then I picked up a parasite and have to start all over again. So, yeah, definitely, you know, you could always backtrack. You’re—you’re never permanently in a good place.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. And again, one thing I see out there on Facebook, and I see it marketed, and it’s–  I have to call—I’m not  gonna call anyone out directly—

Evan Brand: No, come on. Do it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’ll call out the concept. But lots of people, they’re like, “You gotta heal leaky gut. Here’s a gut healing program.”

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And if you look at it, a lot of times, you know, it’s bone broth or just a lot of healing nutrients and a lot of probiotics, right? And maybe a little diet change. But if we go look at the six hours, what are they really doing? They’re doing the third hour, maybe a little bit of the first, maybe a little bit of the second, maybe a little bit of the fifth, right? They’re kinda skipping around. They don’t have a system and how it’s being integrated a lot of times. And I would say 99% of the time, it ignores going after and getting the infections fixed. Totally ignores it. Because you know, these people are recommending a general program to like thousand people at once in a huge kind of a webinar kind of style, right? Well, how do you get all the types of testing and customize everything in that format? You can’t. So it’s a very general kinda overview approach. And in my opinion, it’s going help some people, which I think is great. It’s admirable. But it’s also gonna  a miss a lot of people and those people that don’t get help may lose faith in functional medicine or say, “This is not for me.” So I’m just kinda calling that out because think about it, right? If the root cause of what’s going on is an infection component and you’re doing let’s say the first, second, third, fifth alright but you’re not getting rid of the infection. Well that’s like me giving you this healing aloe, right? You get a sunburn, you come back from the beach, I give you this aloe, right? The underlying cause of the sunburn is the— is the sun. And then you go back out the next day and you get sunburned again and I just give you more aloe. That’s the equivalent of what a lot of these people are doing. Well, just have some more bone broth, have some more of glutamine, have some more of this healing compound for your gut lining. So we got to get to the root cause. A lot of people are just being very general out there. And you know, the listeners of our show will get it and say, “Hey, I see that the missing piece there.” And that’s why we have those six hours that way coz then you can look at it and you can say, “Hey, this is a really specific way we go about addressing things here.”

Evan Brand: Yeah. Well said, man. And that’s the food is medicine, people. And we love the food as medicine people, but that’s why you know, we pursued functional medicine because the food is just the first step, right? It’s just one pillar of the house. It’s not gonna hold the house by itself as a single column. And also, I want to mention the order—the order of operations. If somebody just go straight to bone broth and probiotics and L-glutamine, that’s the wrong order. And sometimes people get worse. They’ll come to us and say, “Oh, Justin and Evan—“

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Evan Brand: “I took XYZ probiotics coz I heard it on a podcast or a blog and I felt terrible and I had a flare up of my condition. Can you explain what happened?” Yes, if things are just terrible in the gut,. sometimes you have to hit the reset button. You can’t immediately just add in all these probiotics and expect it to work. Sometimes we have to fix the balance first and eradicate the bad guys before the good guys can come back in.  So that’s why the order of operation is just a second when Justin said it’s so important. And this may explain why you’re spinning your wheels even though you’re all—you’re doing everything about the Paleo gurus are saying to do.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. We just want to make sure everyone’s educated. I mean, we have some people out here, they’re chiming about, “Hey, I really want a functional medicine doctor but I don’t have the—the money for it.” Well, guess what? The best thing that you can do right now is be listening to our podcast coz all this information is free.

Evan Brand: Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We’re providing tens and thousands of dollars for free information off of people and I get messages all the time. “Hey, made a couple of these changes or recommendations and my autoimmune condition for 10 years is gone.” Right? I didn’t cure him.  I promise. I didn’t cure him, right? The body just heals itself, right? We got to say that as our disclaimer. But that’s you know, what’s that worth. When someone is you know, seeing a rheumatologist for 20 years on lots of expensive medication that’s tearing up their gut and their body and creating more symptoms than they’re actually helping. What’s that worth? So just utilize the pickup as much of the free intel as much as possible. And then you know, allocate some savings or HSA or flex spending. So if you want to dig in deeper, that’s an option. But utilize as much of the free stuff as possible because the diet is the foundation.

Evan Brand: Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 50% is gonna be the diet so work on that first. Once you max that out, and you’re seeing some decent results, then you’d want to go in deeper. You can reach out, for sure.

Evan Brand: Yeah. And you can contact likely so. You can contact your conventional doc and try to get some stuff run through insurance. But it’s likely that they don’t have accounts with these functional labs and they likely just aren’t going to do it. Fut if you’re really lucky, you’ve got a really good M.D., you may be able to push push push push at least get the lab so you have the data. Now what you do with the data? Well then maybe that’s where you come to a functional medicine guy that can help in terms of creating a protocol. But getting the data should not be impossible.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. And a lot of functional medicine docs that do a podcast or websites, I find that they take information, they wrap it up and they try to make people feel so confused where they walk away from the podcast or the video, being like, “What the hell just happened? What I do now ?” And they walk away feeling less certain. I want to make sure no one walks away from any podcast or video I do, gaining more certainty. And at least walking away with one action item that they can add into the repertoire of whether it’s a lifestyle or a supplement or just a different perspective on the6 hoir healing so they get better and they feel more confident.

Evan Brand: Yeah. I watch a couple of functional medicine videos like over the weekend and they were like hour-long videos I made it through 10 minutes. And I thought, “This is not gonna help me at all.” So I decided to turn it off. So let’s do it, let’s do our action steps and summary here.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So of course, we have our six hours, right? So everyone listening kind of our general feedback is gonna be a Paleo autoimmune template to start. And again, depending on where you’re at, that maybe really a lot of— really overwhelming for you, cutting out grains, legumes, dairy and primarily having healthy fats, proteins, uhm more veggies and fruit instead of starch. And having healthy fats like you know, if we’re doing a Paleo, maybe a little butter or ghee. If we’re going fully AIP, no nuts, no seeds, no dairy. Just coconut, Olive oil, may be avocado oil, some healthy animal fats. And that will be a good starting point for people. And then again, an AIP or an SCD or autoimmune diet, again, I’m just kinda laying out the Paleo template to start coz that’s probably the easiest buy in without pre qualifying anyone. I would say that after that, at least getting some digestive support going there. And again, you know, the ones that we formulated, we recommend the most coz we’ve put our stamp of approval. High-quality HCl or enzymes. In my line, it’s HCl supreme or enzyme synergy or I’ll add in the liver supreme for extra bile support for digest energy. And Evans line—Evan has a similar products as well. Uhm— so that’s a good starting point there. And then seeing where you’re at, I think is the next step coz there may be infections, there may be other testing that has to go in deeper. So I think if you can get that, that’s number one. And then I think if you can just make sure the hydration component and the sleep component is dialed in next, that’s a good second step. And that gives most people of really good you know, path to go down and if people are listening, they’ve already done that and they’re like, “what’s next?” well, that’s where I think you’d want to reach out and do a little bit more testing because that’s what I think the infection component and/or the hormone component and/or the nutriend malabsorption component from the infection could be the next vector we’d really have to put up in our sites, so to speak.

Evan Brand: I’m gonna address one comment here and then I’ll bring up a question then we could uh—we could wrap it up. Leslie mentioned the diet’s the foundation which kinda sucks no more pigging out in the middle of the night. The good thing is that could be related to infections. I mean for me, for example, when I had parasites, I would get these food cravings that just didn’t make sense and it wasn’t me. It’s these bugs. They are stealing your nutrients, they want food so they’re cannibalizing your muscle tissue and when you’re eating, they’re messing up your ability to digest especially coz I had H. pylori. My stomach acid levels were lower. I was basically hungry all the time and I was losing weight. Getting to like a scary point of weight loss. So really, the diet is not too hard once you just address your gut bugs, that— the whole like binging type thing on food, it really doesn’t happen once your gut is healed, once your adrenals and your thyroid are helped out and your blood sugar’s more stable. It’s not an issue. I mean you could fasted for a long time and feel stable. You shouldn’t have to get hungry or go on a crisis stage. Justin, a question for you. Uh—some doctors say T3 doesn’t matter; they don’t test it on Thyroid labs. The person’s taking T3 now slowly increasing. Would you be lowering T4 when adding this?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, I would typically be adding more than likely a T4, T3 put together so there’s gonna be a combination of both. Most doctors don’t care about uhm—T3 because the major pharmaceutical companies, Abbott’s the big one, that has a patent on Synthroid is a synthetic T4. It’s easier to monitor uhm— giving a T4 the half-life’s five days, so it’s really easy. It’s not like a T3, which could potentially have more side effects. Uhm—and it’s patentable, right? It’s the basically tetraiodothyronine with the sodium salt on it. So that’s how they get the patent to it. Uhm—again, they don’t m__ it because that’s just not what they do. They give you the T4, they get the TSH back in range. All your thyroid symptoms could still be present. Cold hands, cold feet, anxiety, mood issues, hair thinning, you know, gut here fitting things you know, gut stuff, constipation all could still be there, but if the TSH is in range, they’re happy. They checked off the list, you’re gone. So that’s where you got a dig in deeper. You got a look at the T4, T3 conversion. You got to look at the autoimmunity. You got a look at the nutrients. You gotta look at the adrenal conversion, the gut conversion connection and the liver detox conversion connection, too.

Evan Brand: Yup. Yup. Should you ignore TSH? No. It’s definitely worth factoring TSH in. You just don’t want to use that as the end-all be-all only marker. But you— but when you have the free T3 and the reverse T3, the TPO, the TG antibodies kinda all the stuff we run, the TSH makes a lot more sense when you got a full picture.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. We like to keep TSH in the equation and look at sometimes people come in with the TSH that’s perfect, but their T4 T3 conversion sucks. And then what do you do? You know when you’re treating the TSH or are you treating the actual patient? So we’ll try to increase thyroid hormones, see if symptoms change and we’ll try to support HPT access communication with specific herbs. And of course, stress modulation and getting infections— getting rid of infections coz that can really mess up the HPT access, the Hypothalamus Pituitary Thyroid connection.

Evan Brand: Yup. For sure. Uh—Leslie and a couple other comments about you know, where to go next? Well, I mean, you know, if people may say, “Oh, we’re biased.” But the answer is get tested. Our philosophy is “Test, don’t guess.” So if you’re confused, you’ve got symptoms that don’t make sense, get tested. That’s the first step. You can look at adrenals, thyroid, gut, get all the puzzle pieces laid on the table. That way you’re not just buying random supplements that you might not actually need. We’ve seen so many people with 20 and 30 supplements that they’re taking and they still feel terrible. And we cut that down to five supplements because it’s based on labs and all of a sudden people get better. So you know, save up your money for that. Maybe you don’t go buy the next newest supplement you hear about. Maybe you— you focus on investing into some testing first.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly.

Evan Brand: And you can check it out on Justin’s site. It’s Justinhealth.com You can look at the supplements, the labs on there. Same thing on my site, Evanbrand.com and we’re happy to help. So, feel free to reach out.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. And also, couple of people asked about Dr. Gundry’s The Low Lectin Protocol. I think it’s the plant paradox. Again, my thing is if you’re just going to a Paleo template, you’re gonna cut a lot of those lectins out. If you actually cook some of the plants, some of the starches,  some of the vegetables and lower the lectins even more, if you still have a lot of gut issues, upgrading it to an autoimmune protocol, you decrease lectins more. If we still have issues and we can move to a specific carbohydrate or GAPS protocol and we decrease lectins even more. So it just depends on where you’re at cooking knocks a great chunk of that out and just going to a Paleo template, where we’re cutting out grains, legumes, dairy and focusing more on non-starchy veg, uhm— lower glycemic, low sugar fruits and safe starches that aren’t grain-based, you’re gonna have a huge effect and grains, where most of the lectins and irritants come from. So again, that— my opinion matches people making things a little bit more complicated than they have to be.

Evan Brand: Marketing.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Evan Brand: I mean, he’s done a good job that book is spread.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. It has gone viral. Everyone asked me about it all the time. I can’t get a go of a— one day without a patient asking me about it. So I have to follow it. I think I found it on fast reads on Amazon. So I got a—like uhm—abridged version of it that I’m siphoning through.

Evan Brand: Nice.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’ve got a couple of services where they do these summaries. And it’a great.  I mean I get 90% of the information.

Evan Brand: Exactly.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Suck it up in a half hour and I’m like, “Oop, got it!” That’s it. On to the next one. Well, any other questions you wanted to answer here, Evan?

Evan Brand: I think that’s everything. I think that’s all we can—we can chat on today and we’re gonna do a podcast soon on co-infections. We’re gonna talk about Lyme, Bartonella and Babesia Uh—Justin and I, I mean, we’ve literally got the books like right here that we’re—we’re diving into.  We wanna make sure we’re the most educated and current up-to-date with our information before we broadcast to you guys. So make sure you hit subscribe on Justin’s YouTube channel while you’re at, hit subscribe. And uh—we’ll be back again soon.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. And one last thing. Patient asked here—person asked here on the chat list, uhm—“How do you—how do you choose your functional medicine doctor? How do you trust them?” He said, “I can’t trust them. How do I choose them?” Well, number one, I think they should have some kind of content out there whether its video, audio and/or blog post where you resonate with their information. Like their philosophy, their information, you should resonate. I find most patients are the biggest reason why they don’t get better is because, number one, compliance, and number two, they’ve been burnt and the past or they failed in the past and therefore they’re kind of priming their subconscious to fail again. So they don’t follow through and they’re off to the next one other, you know, they’re making a 180 move in can’t see someone else because some little thing happened. They’re not following through enough. So I think keeping—one, making sure you choose someone based on their philosophy and the information and making sure you resonate at an emotional level and just a logical level. Here’s the plan, generally speaking, right? And then number two, making sure you’ve given enough time and then follow through uh—for it to work.

Evan Brand: Yup. Well said. I’ll address— address this last question, then we’ll roll here. Uh—Is it common to have to go through a few rounds of infection killing protocols? Yes.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It can.

Evan Brand: You can. It took me a couple of rounds to go through, some herbs to knockout things coz I have multiple infections. When you’re trying to kill five or six or seven things at once, yeah. I can’t take multiple rounds. Why is that? Depends on the person’s immune system health or stress levels, how long they’ve had infections, the amount of damage that’s there, how much inflammation is there, are they sleeping well, do they have a good diet. You know, there’s million factors to answer why that— why that could be. Hope that helps.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s great.

Evan Brand: Andrea is asking a question about his father’s prostate cancer. PSA levels are rising rapidly. Can we cast opinions or advice?

Evan Brand: I can’t. Justin?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s about thyroid, it’s about uhm— prostate issues?

Evan Brand: Yeah. Prostate. Prostate cancer this drug—Enzalutamide had been recommended for father’s prostate cancer PSA levels are rising rapidly. Can you cast opinions or advice?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, let me describe– I have one formula here that’s been helpful. Yeah. I have one compound here that I’ve been using here, just I had a couple of supplement companies reach out and I’m using it. It’s the pomegranate extract, and the flower pollen extract and its cranberry extract. So cranberry, pomegranate and flower pollen. This is an excellent support. Lot of research behind those extracts as well. Lycopene is phenomenal, getting adequate levels of selenium 200 mics a day is phenomenal, enough zinc as well is phenomenal saw palmetto’s great. These are excellent compounds that help. Lycopene is phenomenal as well. Again, the diet has to be in place. You want to get the lifestyle things going and again, these things don’t grow overnight. They probably taken decades to kind of move. So coffee and Coffee enemas may also be helpful to kind of early push detox in a faster more acute kind of way. But some  couple of compounds that I mentioned are phenomenal and wouldn’t hurt getting them on board in the meantime.

Evan Brand: Yeah. And look at my podcast I did with the lady named Dr. Nasha Winters.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Evan Brand: She did a book that’s called, “The Metabolic Approach to Cancer” She— she had cancer herself and she’s been holistically supporting people with cancer for about 20 years. So uh— look up Nasha Winters and uh look up her book and you could implement some strategies there hopefully.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Also, get the insulin levels under control. Make sure fasting insulin is five or below at least. That’s important because insulin is gonna cause a lot of cells to grow and then also making sure xenoestrogen exposure is mitigated, right? Don’t drink out of plastic bottles, avoid pesticides and GMO’s and glyphosate and Roundup. These are chemicals that you’re gonna get from conventional foods. Obviously, eat organic, right? Pasteur-fed meats. Again, these things— I shouldn’t have to repeat them, but I just can’t assume that everyone knows these stuff.

Evan Brand: They don’t. Not everyone does. So, yeah, keep repeating it and keep preaching. And I think that’s all the questions. So we did— we did really good. That was fun.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I heard a quote back. It’s a quote from the 1940s, where Joe DiMaggio was interviewed and they said that Joe said, “We noticed that you sprint on and off the field every single time at full speed no matter what.” And he said, “Well, there may be someone coming out to see me for the first time ever that seeing me play the way I’m playing and I wanna play at 100% every time.” And then maybe some people that are coming out for the first time seeing us play here, and we want to make sure that they get that information that we may assume that other people uh— may have, right? The equivalent will be like us jogging on the field, so to speak, if we just assume that.

Evan Brand: Yup.  Well said. Well, reach out if you need help. Justinhealth.com You can schedule with Justin. Evanbrand.com if you’d like to schedule consults with us. We should have some availability in the next 3 to 6 weeks or so. So just take a look and  we’re happy to help you soon as we can.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, by the way, I’m adding in the Mimosa Pudica as well. So I’ll be reporting back on that in the next couple weeks. I think you as well Evan. So we’ll chat about that.  Again, I just got that in stock. That’s the Para-1 in my store. I think you have it in your store as well. So, we’ll put that in the show links, too. So that’s a cool new herb that we’re working on. We have a couple other herbal compounds in the mix that we’re using for different types of co-infections that we’re researching uhm—in the background, too.

Evan Brand: Awesome.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey, Evan, great chatting with you, man. You have an awesome day. We’ll chat soon.

Evan Brand: You too. Take care

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Bye.

Evan Brand: Bye.








Fibromyalgia Natural Solutions – Dr. J Live Podcast #159

Dr. Justin Marchegiani and Evan Brand discuss about Fibromyalgia including its cause and symptoms. Learn how some of the symptoms connected to it such as anxiety, depression, IBS, memory problems are also seen in other health conditions.

Listen as they talk about some of the viruses, infections, gut health, heavy metals, thyroid and adrenal imbalances as possible contributing factors or underlying issues leading to unfavorable health symptoms. Gain some valuable information regarding natural solutions and lifestyle changes that you can do to combat these symptoms.

 Natural Solutions for Fibromyalgia

In this episode, we cover:


02:15   Fibromyalgia Symptoms

03:48   Viruses and Infections

07:20   Gut Health

10:31   Adrenal Issues

13:19   Heavy Metals


Just In Health iTunes

Just In Health YouTube

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s Dr. J here in the house. Evan, how we doing today? Happy Monday!

Evan Brand: Hey, man!  Happy Monday to you. Life is good.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. We had a little technical difficulty here. But we are rolling. The show must go on. So, any any updates for me here that you want to bring to my attention before we dig in and get dirty?

Evan Brand: Well, I’m just excited. I’m excited to talk with you about fibromyalgia. This is one of those things in that category like IBS where the conventional doctors—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Evan Brand:.. give people diagnosis and then they just end up with drugs in their pockets and they don’t have any real success. And people struggle for years and years and years, they end up with these other symptoms that come along with fibromyalgia like anxiety or depression or IBS. And once again, conventional Docs, they just don’t really have a high success rate with this issue.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: A hundred percent agree. And fibromyalgia is one of these interesting types of diagnoses. Basically you have to have uh—central allodynia pain, which is kind of like this uh— pain that may be true like 11 different random spots of the body. So they look for these different pain, tender spots, shoulders, chest, hips, back. And they are looking for like at least 11 out of the 17 or so spots. And if you have it, great, you have fibromyalgia, right? Coz basically what is a central allodynia? That means your nervous system is so hypersensitive that it’s dectecting, you know, you rubbing like this, just things that shouldn’t cause pain. It’s sensing that it’s pain. And that’s the biggest issue coz  the nervous system is so upregulated, it’s like having an antenna that’s so hypersensitive that it’s picking up stations uhm— that shouldn’t be picking up.  And it’s the same kinda thing. Your nervous system is an antenna that’s picking up all these nociception or pain sensation where it shouldn’t be. So we want to get to the root cause of why that is. Go ahead.

Evan Brand: Yeah. There is uh—conventional drug that a lot of people end up on. The Lyrica, which I’m sure you’ve heard of.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Evan Brand: Huge pricing commercials for it. And I’ve had people taking that and they just don’t notice much and then sometimes the side effects, maybe not without drug, buy any of the drugs, can be worse than the actual thing that you’re trying to fix into the first place. So that’s just— it’s scary because when you want to get a root cause answered, you’re not gonna get it unless you start running some of these functional medicine testing that we’re talking about. So I just have a list of symptoms I wanted to read that could come along with the fibromyalgia. So that could be anxiety, that could be concentration and memory problems, depression, fatigue, headaches, irritable bowel syndrome. Now, that sounds like a lot of other things that we need to talk about.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. And here’s the thing, right? A lot of people may have gluten sensitivity or hypothyroidism or heavy metal issues or gut microbial imbalances, the issue is that some people may manifest with Hashimoto’s. Some may manifest with fibromyalgia symptoms who have a lot of the central allodynia pain. So it is interesting because some people, they can have the exact same core underlying issue, but have a totally different diagnosis. And all of diagnoses is a constellation of symptoms that are typically put into one category, right? The chronic pain symptoms—that’s gonna be in the fibromyalgia category. Memory symptoms—that’s gonna be in the category. Fatigue symptoms— that could be in the thyroid or adrenal category. Gut issues— depending on where that inflammation is located, that could be in the Crohn’s or Ulcerative Colitis or there’s no inflammation in the tissues that can be in the IBS category like you. So this is where it’s tough because all conventional medicine is tyring to categorize known symptoms in the categories call the “disease”. We are trying to trace it upstream. And the hard part about functional medicine is certain people can have the exact same imbalances and manifest with totally separate diseases. That’s the hardest part people to wrap their heads around.

Evan Brand: Yeah. Let’s go into the viruses. My wife when she had joint pain several years ago, you said, “Evan, the first thing you need to look into is going to be some of the viruses.” And so we got a blood test run on her. She did not show up with Lyme, fortunately, but she did show up with the cytomegalovirus and then also the mycoplasma. Can— so can you speak about those a bit? And how that could be causing joint pain that could get misdiagnosed?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: A hundred percent. So there are certain infections like mycoplasma is one of them they can manifest in the joint tissue, for sure. So that’s one of those conditions that an infection can really be driving a lot of that joint pain. And we know certain infections and certain imbalances can manifest with certain symptoms. Like we know that hypothyroid issues, low thyroid function can manifest having low thyroid hormone in joint pain. We also know like infections like mycoplasma can also cause or call  the lower thyroid function and then potentially manifest in joint pain. We also know it could potentially manifest in the joints and you know certain antibiotics like Minocycline to help knock it out. We prefer to use some of the herbs coz it tends to be safer on the gut microbiome in the long run, number one. And then with your wife symptoms, we notice that she already had a pretty good diet.  And there was a tick bite involved in your wife’s last issues. Is that correct?

Evan Brand: That’s right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And so because of that, you know, we were leaning towards, “Hey, let’s just to after the infection and see what happens.” And when we knocked out the infection, everything got a lot better. So that was good to see that.

Evan Brand: Yeah. It was so— it was so it was so easy, too. So simple. Just modify the immune system, all of a sudden things are better. So, if you have fibromyalgia or you have joint pain and general pain stiffness, you gotta make sure you roll those in. So go to your doctor if you’ve got a natural path or functional medicine practitioner, that’s even better. Try to get them to test you for the Lyme, plus the co-infection. So coz like I said she had a negative result for Lyme, but she was positive for these other things, Cytomegalo and the Mycoplasma. So you gotta go look for them.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hundred percent. So, again, any issue any like disease issue, like if you’re someone and we’re focusing on fibromyalgia today because that’s got a certain bit of symptoms that manifest in pain. So if you resonate with that, great. This is going to help you. If you don’t resonate with fibromyalgia symptoms, but you have something else, this podcast is still gonna be helpful because we always trace it back to the underlying imbalances, which can manifest itself in different symptoms. But one thing that’s gonna be uniform across the board is looking at the gut. The gut is really important coz that’s where a lot of your immune system is. 70 to 80% that’s where your body digests and breaks down nutrients, that’s where uhm—your— essentially you digest and break down all the food you’re eating. So if we’ve a bottleneck in the breakdown of our nutrition, we’ve a bottleneck in how our immune system functions, if we have a leaky gut and your immune system’s being overreactive, or if we have an infection there, that can create a lot of underlying stress that may manifest itself in different symptoms. And again, kinda linking it back to fibromyalgia, if you have these chronic pain issues, those 11 kind of places a central allodynia pain to touch, right? Your diagnosed 11 places of pain on your body, at least. And you have the fibromyalgia, the diagnosis, then we definitely have to rule out the gut. And again, here’s a thing that really throws people for a loop is that you can have gut issues and not have gut symptoms – that’s the really hard thing. You may not have the bloating, the gas, the diarrhea, the constipation, the acid reflux, and you may still have a gut issue.

Evan Brand: Uh-hmm. H. pylori we see it every week in the clinic. So if you’ve got H.Pylori, you’ve got that bacterial infection, that’s suppressing HCl production, therefore you’re not digesting your food. So if you’re seen floating stools or you’re seeing undigested food particles in your stool, that could all be adding up to this whole picture of the depression, the anxiety, the fatigue. Maybe even skin issues, too. So maybe you don’t have the fibromyalgia diagnoses, but you’ve got fatigue, depression, anxiety maybe some sleep problems maybe some skin issues. That could all be tied into leaky gut— that intestinal permeability. It could be something as simple as H. pylori or like Dr. Justin Marchegianientioned, it could be H. pylori plus Mycoplasma plus maybe some bacterial overgrowth like the SIBO case or plus parasites, which is something we often talk about, plus fungus. You know, typically it’s not just one thing. Most of the time, by the time people get to us, they’ve been suffering for quite a long time and therefore, there’s usually a handful of things that we’ve got to address. Now on the thyroid, is the pain going away just a side effect of you fixing your thyroid? Like all the sudden thyroid function improves and the pain just goes away. Could it be that simple if that were your biggest root cause?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well 100%. So you can see it quite frequently that just getting someone on some T3, some thyroid hormone can really help because they may be on thyroid hormone, T4, but they’re not able to convert and activate it. So there’s TSH, right? The pituitary hormone that most conventional docs measure to look at thyroid function may look nice and pretty but they’re not making that conversion from T4 to T3. So their T3 levels may be low, and if you come in there with some activated T3, you may start to put some of their thyroid symptoms on remission. Now, we have to understand, from a functional medicine perspective, what’s palliative and what’s root cause. So we have to make sure we actually fix the underlying conversion issues, if it’s nutrient or if it’s inflammationm if it’s gut, if it’s immune. And we also had to fix the underlying nutrient absorption issues, the infections, the autoimmunity, right? So whatever those issues are. So, we kinda understand that there are certain natural medicine things we can do. There are palliative, which are great. And there are certain things like, I think you mentioned earlier about the uhm—your child has a little bit of eczema and you know, putting a little bit of coconut oil in there helps. But you recognize, that’s palliative not root cause. So we try to get to the underlying foods that may be causing it.  Same thing in this analogy with thyroid. And thyroid, low thyroid hormone can express itself in about 70 different symptoms—hair loss, fatigue, uhm— brain fog, anxiety, right? All these different symptoms. Also, the pain symptom is one of the.

Evan Brand: Yup. Well said. And if it’s Hashimoto’s, if it’s an autoimmune thyroid condition, that T3 could help symptoms improve. In this case, you could get more energy, could help reduce pain. But if you haven’t stop that autoimmune attack by addressing infection, supporting the adrenal glands, making sure the diet is dialled in, and you don’t have any foods that are creating antibodies against the thyroid. You know, those are some of the big three needlemovers you got to have on board to fix this thing at the root and not just be stuck on T4 or T3 or combination for the rest your life.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hundred percent. So we also know that adrenal issues— adrenal imbalance is not necessarily adrenal fatigue, of course, you know, most people in the conventional medical world will hear adrenal fatigue and think adrenal failure like Addison’s disease, okay? Which is valid but we also know that there can be imbalances in cortisol that may not be a full disease failure kind of situation. It may be just lower adrenal cortisol issues, lower DHEA because of HPA axis dysfunction. And if that’s the case, we want to make sure we support that because adrenal, zero adrenal glands produce cortisol, which is your natural anti-inflammatory hormone. And again, people that have chronic pain issues, a lot of times, we put on like COX 2 inhibitors, things like that. Severe pain, of course, Opioids is an Oxycontin, which is a another big issue in itself. But also, Prednisone and Corticosteroid drugs that basically have the ability to knock down inflammation, the problem is, why aren’t your own glands working enough to cover up that inflammation, too? So, if we get the adrenals working better, we can kinda make some of our own homemade Prednisone on our own—our own homemade Corticosteroids to help cut that inflammation down.

Evan Brand: So talk about what happens. Let’s say somebody is on the steroids long-term, that’s also going to affect the adrenals as we’ve seen on some lab results.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. It will throw off some of the feedback loop, so will disrupt the HPA axis, that’s the brain talking to the adrenals. That’s that nice feedback loop or that kind of internal thermostat that our body has. So we do have that there that we have to work on because that can affect that thermostat. Uhm—number two, it can really throw off your blood sugar. So taking a lot of synthetic steroids that when we create protocols for a patient, we may use small amounts of precursor hormones like Pregnenolone or DHEA. And these are gonna throw things off in the same way that a drug would. Because these drugs are very, very powerful. They can mess up the feedback loops. But if you’re using a corticosteroid, it can really mess up your blood sugar and in the long run, it can even create osteoporotic situations. It can really thin out the bones. It can really weaken the gut lining because these steroids break things down,right? They’re anti-inflammatory but they are also very catabolic. So it’s great in the short run, right? When we get back on track, but not good in the long run coz it can really mess up our glandular physiology. How that—how our hormonal systems work. And the feedback loops that kinda keep them connected.

Evan Brand: I think it’s worth mentioning heavy metals, too. I don’t think it’s good to be

necessarily the number one cause for most people, but we notice that if there is a gut issue, let’s say somebody does have these gut bugs, they could have a detox problems, too. Just coz their body, their liver is just so overburden. Let’s talk about metals a bit. So could be just amalgam fillings or could be occupational exposure or could be too much of a lower quality or too big of a fish like a tuna that’s causing issues. Let’s talk about that for a minute.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. So we can definitely have toxicity issues like Mercury which can be very inflammatory. Mercury also is similar to the halide group so it could fit into the receptor site where Iodine would typically bind in. Fluoride and bromine can also pinch-hit there as well. So that can create a lot of issues regarding that. Mercury can also jam up the mitochondria. I mean feel free and go to PubMed and just type in “Mercury and mitochondrial function” and you’ll see increase in heavy metals can decrease mitochondrial function. And again, as—as glycolysis and our Krebs cycle turns and we have betaoxidation on the flipside, we generate about 36 ATP’s per pump and those ATP’s work is kind of the cellular currency for energy, right? It’s how our body kind of you know, creates energy and you know, has aerobic metabolism to create ATP, which is our body functions and that’s kinda the byproduct of having a healthy metabolism.

But if we go in there and all these gears are moving spitting out all these ATP, which is basically cellular energy, and we messed that up, we throw kind of a monkey wrench into the gearbox, that’s gonna prevent optimal ATP function, which is gonna throw off our energy and our body ability—our body’s ability to function, right? Lower energy is gonna create symptoms. Anytime you have lower energy, you  tend to start having brain fog issues, mood issues, fatigue issues, pain issues, sleep issues because energy is the byproduct of a healthy metabolism. So when energy goes, metabolism is going down. And when that’s starts to go, other symptoms tend to manifest as well.

Evan Brand: Yeah. I’ve gotta say two things. One is glyphosate. If you’re not 100% organic, make your goal to be a 100% organic as close as you possibly can. I love that people are honest. I had a guy who on his intake form, I asked the question, “What percentage or diet is organic?” He said 0%. I’m like, “Man, you’re getting glyphosate.” We can measure it. We can prove it on a piece paper, but just know if something is not labeled organic, especially your fruits and veggies, assume it’s contaminated with glyphosate. Just like Justin mentioned about Mercury, antibiotics, glyphosate. Those are all mitochondrial killers and so there’s nothing worse that you could possibly do than have glyphosate in your system. Now, fortunately, you can detox it by using the sauna. There’s other methods that we talked about but just make it a goal. Throw out the—you know, go donate or throw out the non-organic stuff. Swap it out. Pay the extra buck. Pay the extra 2 bucks. It’s gonna be much, much more valuable in the long-term and much cheaper in the long term because you’re gonna prevent yourself from having health issues associated with glyphosate toxicity.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hundred percent. Hundred percent. I had a conversation with someone recently that say, “Hey, you you realize organic food doesn’t have any more nutrients than conventional food.” And I said back to them,”Well, it depends.” There are some studies that do say organic food does have more nutrients. I mean there are some people that say that’s there are some studies by Temple University that shows a much higher level in nutrition with organic food than conventional food. I just think it depends on what kind of organic we’re talking about factory farm, you know, big corporations have started labeling things organic. And again, are they gonna have the same high level as a local farm regarding fertilization, you know, rotating the crops. I mean, if you just have an organic farm without pesticides, but you just continue to heat that crop season after season, don’t let it rest, don’t switch spots, and don’t you know, add synergy to the land, right? Some synergy is like, for instance, when the cows pass on their— basically have their manure, their bowel movements, you’re bringing the chickens afterwards to kind of help uh knock out all the grubs, right? Which prevents other animals from coming in. So you can add synergy to the land that helps, number one, increase uhm— fertility to the soil, right? Increases that top soil. But number two, it helps other past and creatures from growing, which can create havoc down the line. And so, in other words, uhmm—some people can really hit that soil hard and decrease the nutrient densities of the organic food. It has less nutrients, anyway. But anyway, so let’s just pretend this person is right. They told me organic food has the same nutrition as conventional food. Alright. Fine. We do know the research is quite conclusive that organic food has less pesticide residue. Of course, coz to be organic, you can’t have pesticides on it. So just the fact that— let’s the nutrient’s density is the same from organic food. While I’m definitely not getting the pesticide exposure, which Evan mentioned earlier with Glyphosate or Roundup. It’s so important. coz there are so many studies on that coming out that it’s very toxic on the body, on the liver, on the gut. And essentially many other places.

Evan Brand: You know, the European Union, they’re successfully banning it. I’ve been trying to keep up with this is much as I can. It looks like glyphosate is seeing the end of the rope in the European Union. I hope something is to follow in the US, but I just don’t think it’s gonna be anytime soon here.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I agree.

Evan Brand: One of the thing I wanted to mention is on the CDC’s website about fibromyalgia, they say that much much much higher rates of ankylosing spondylitis occur with fibromyalgia and Justin and I mentioned this on a mini podcast. That’s an autoimmune condition. And so it sounds like what they’re saying without saying it because maybe they’re not noticing the link, is that this whole thing is likely just a autoimmune issue. The IBS, like you mentioned, the Crohn’s or the Colitis, the Hashimoto’s, like this could all just be autoimmunity at the root. And we’ve just got to go through all of our causes and fix the autoimmune issue and then all of a sudden you can reverse the symptoms.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hundred percent. And again, there’s like over a 180 autoimmune conditions. So my analogy is anytime you have a physical chemical or emotional stress, or  you know, imagine having this fancy pearl necklace, every time you put tight, that’s a physical chemical or emotional stressor in your life. And let’s just say every little spot where that pearl connects to the necklace, they’re not all the same strength. There maybe some part to that chain that are little bit weaker. Think of that as genetic predisposition at work. You’re gonna have certain genetic links in the chain that are going to be a little bit weaker. Now what does that mean to you, as that stress comes on, that part of the chain may be more likely to break than another part. Let’s say  Pearl 33 is more likely to break them Pearl three or Pearl four, right? Now, Pearl 33 may be ankylosing spondylitis. And that stressor may be Roundup or could be Hashimoto’s or let’s say Pearl 4 is Hashimoto’s for someone else, right? So think of every little link in that chain as a different disease that could manifest if that link is broken. And where that link you for you, is gonna be based on your genetic predisposition. What we have control over is not pulling that damn chain type. Let it go. Let it relax, right? How do we do that? All of the diet and lifestyle things. Just cutting the Round up out. Eating organic. That pulls the stress off. And getting that good sleep, having good thoughts, fixing your gut, fixing infections, making sure you can digest and break down all that really good food that you’re eating. Get your hormones under control if there’s imbalances there. Does that make sense, Evan?

Evan Brand: Oh, it sure does. I mean, just like you picture a big wall think of like a submarine. You’ve got a 1000 switches in all these red switches are flipped on. We’re just gonna go down the list and just flip all those red switches off, and all of a sudden you turn off, you’ve not pulled the trigger. You’ve got the loaded gun, but we’re just gonna decide not to pull the trigger. People think that like genetic testing is the end-all be-all and “Oh, my gosh! I’m genetically predisposed to X.” It’s like that doesn’t change the protocol at all. That just means you need to be even more diligent. If your family had a history of this condition or other conditions, you just have to be more diligent. That doesn’t mean you’re toast. That doesn’t mean you’re definitely going to get XYZ disease or condition. That just mean you got pay attention. You’ve gotta make sure you’ve got all the pieces going in your favor.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And I pretty much work with the genetic stuff. I don’t get so hyper fixated on it. I just assume the worst for everyone. And that way, we’re making the changes in hydration, with sleep, with water, with toxicity, with gut. We’re not gonna give synthetic folic acid. We’re gonna give super high quality methylated B vitamins. We’re just making that assumption for everyone because I can’t be hurt by making that assumption in that direction. If I make it the opposite direction and say, “Hey, it’s okay. You probably don’t have a folate issue. I’m gonna save some money and put some crappy synthetic folic acid in my multivitamin instead of high-quality activated folate. Then I can go wrong, right? I may save a little bit of money but because we’re interfacing with our patients daily and weekly, we know that we’re better off rolling the dice in favor of there being an issue with that. So we always have the higher quality nutrients in there to cover our butts.

Evan Brand: Yeah. And I had a a woman who emailed me this morning she said, “Evan, I had a reaction to gluten. Do you think it’s time that I go get tested for celiac?” And I told her, “It’s better cheaper and likely safer just to assume that you’ve got a massive allergy to gluten,” Then you just need to stay way because really, going to the gastroenterology process where they make you eat— what is it two slices of bread for like a week or two and then they cut out a piece of your intestine to try to see if all those cilia where destroyed or flattened. And then a lot of times, there’s even false negatives there. So you could do all that work. Destroy your body, create inflammation and then say, “Oh, it says negative.” It’s like just stay away and be more diligent. Don’t tell people that it’s a preference. Just tell it—  tell people at a restaurant it’s a gluten allergy. Make  they change their gloves. And you’re gonna be much safer as opposed to waiting for that diagnosis. So that’s kinda what my message is. If you have these symptoms, maybe  you’re not been officially diagnosed with fibromyalgia, but you’ve got these symptoms, you’ve got pain and the sleep and fatigue. Just go ahead and think, “Okay, maybe I’ve got XYZ but now I’ve just gotta start working on all these big pieces we talked about.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hundred percent. Yeah. Makes a lot of sense. And someone’s chiming in here on the YouTube live here, chat saying that uhm—their local farmer told him it’s certified organic, allows them to spray toxic pesticides two times a year. Not sure what kind of certification that is.  Typically, the USDA certification’s pretty good. The fied has to be—the land has to be for three years without pesticides to even get that certification. So I’m not sure if we’re talking about the same USDA certification, number one. And a lot of farmers they’ll use other compounds that tend to be a little less toxic to help with spring. So like for instance we have our property done which had to use probiotic spray and we tend to use essential oils. And again, there may be chemicals in there, of course, but they may be harmonious and have less toxic burden. I’m more worried about the toxicity of the pesticides. And let’s say you bought an organic food that was, you know, in one of these farms that was spray twice a year,  well, isn’t that gonna be better than a farm that’s sprayed weekly?

Evan Brand: Right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So I’m kinda like good-better-best. Hey, if I’m gonna cheat or if I have a choice option between something that was spray weekly versus twice a year, I’m still gonna go with twice a year because that toxicity burns is gonna be good. Also, we can just utilize the Clean 15 and the dirty dozen. Great, if we’re gonna buy a food that’s conventional or somewhat conventional with pesticides. Let’s look at the Clean 15 and see the foods that have less pesticide residue and avoid the dirty dozen and/or just get a really good uhm— vegetable or fruit wash that you can wash off some of the external pesticides at least.

Evan Brand: Yeah. And some of the regulations under the USDA, there’s a difference between 100% organic and just certified organic. So, obviously, the best thing to do which is contact a local farmer, which is what I do. I buy some bison meat and other products locally. And I know that they don’t ever use chemicals ever and if they do have to use chemicals, they’ll tell you. And they’ll say, why, what happened how much, what did they actually use. So if you just look up local harvest and go look up type in your ZIP Code, your location, go find some local people and just talk with them. That way, you  don’t have to guess anymore whether something’s actually legit from the grocery store. I still go to the grocery, but I try to source other things outside where I can check the person’s hand. It’s just a lot more viable experience that way.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And again, we just have to do your best, right? Sometimes we don’t have the best options you know, when we’re traveling or we’re going out to eat. But if we can control the 80 to 90% when we’re home and we’re in our house and the foods that we choose in our area, that’s gonna be the most important thing. Also, when you’re healthy, you get a little bit more wiggle room; when you’re chronically sick, you don’t. So if you’re chronically sick, then you really got to be careful and make the best decision possible and uhm— if you’re not, then 10 to 20%, I’m totally okay with. And if you’re going to get exposed to things, activated charcoal is a great option uhm— taking some extra detox support may be helpful, too. So all that’s really good if you know you’re gonna be getting exposed to not so good things.

Evan Brand: Yeah. Take in your enzymes, too. Take in your acids, your enzymes. You and I both use enzymes that are gonna contain special ones that helps. So if you do get  to it. exposed to gluten, that can help reduce the flareup. If you are sensitive, you are react to it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. And then James here, talks about uhm— his fatigue still lingers daily, can’t shake it. Thyroid tested good with me, uhm—Modafinil works great and gets me to the day. And Modafinil or Provigil aspirin is a big fan of it. Not a huge fan long term. I mean I think it’s not fixing any of the underlying issues. So the diet helps I mean I would look more at the adrenals, I’d look more at the mitochondria. I forget your specific case, James, I know you’re doing good for a while. So if you just had a backward slide recently, we’d wanna chat and figure out what underlying stressors have creeped up or make sure the infections are gone, or make sure the mitochondria are functioning as optimal as possible. So I wanna look a little bit deeper. I’m fine, though, using Modafinil Provigil punctuated time frames, you know, a work deadline comes up, major stressors you know, you have to induce some extra stuff on the weekend with your family or work stuff, then fine. Take that to really upregulate your body but just keep in mind there’s something deeper we got a look at. And just  you know, things like sleep and things like hydration and people forget those all the time.

Evan Brand: Yup. Very simple but sometimes the most simple stuff moves the needle.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I mean Daniel talks about here, uh— talks about what can cause jellylike lumps in the semen sometimes painful to pass. Well first off, I would do like a urine analysis first, just to make sure there’s nothing, no UTI your uhm—you know, nothing that’s kidney or bladder base. Make sure there’s no infections in the piping, so to speak. Uh—again, I would also rule out epididymitis. Make sure there’s no infections in the epididymis. There could be a bacterial issue that’s just causing these uh— the semen to kinda agglutinate or stick together. And also, even just run a sperm analysis. Just to make sure this— the semen are actually alive and it’s not a whole bunch of dead semen uh— in there as well. So, I would look there first. If the diet’s good, if everything else is good, I would just make sure any type of infections and that urinary area are also clear too. E. coli, those kinda things.

Evan Brand: Awesome. Well, we gotta wrap up. Both of us gotta get back to our calls, but we hope you guys enjoy the show and leave us questions. You can leave us questions in the future. So if you didn’t catch this live, go to Justin’s YouTube channel. Go on his video, write in your questions, we’ll try to answer as many as we can or will save those for future show. And then same thing for topics. If you have topics that you want us to address, please put them on there. And if we need to reach out for a consult, check out Justin’s site. It’s Justinhealth.com You can schedule a consult. If you wanna schedule a consult with me, check out my site EvanBrand.com and we are happy and willing to help you. So please reach out if you’re suffering around the world, just phone in and Skype consults make it easy for us to help you.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And check us out on our podcast channels, too. We’re trying to do our videos here on YouTube, but we’re also trying to record everything in higher-quality audio. So, if you want to hear  us in some higher quality audio, check out our podcast channels. Again, if you go to Evan’s site, EvanBrand.com or my site, Justinhealth.com click on the podcast and you can subscribe to get updated, audio as well. Anything else you wanted to add, Evan?

Evan Brand: I think that’s it. Awesome and Ross, yeah, Mastic Gum is great for H. Pylori.  Awesome show today, Evan. Great as always. Appreciate your energy and your insights and let’s chat real soon.

Evan Brand: Likewise, man. Take care.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Take Care. Bye now.

Evan Brand: See you.








Depression Solution – Dr. J. Live Podcast #158

Dr. Justin Marchegiani and Evan Brand talk about depression and anxiety. Listen as they discuss some of the possible root cause of such condition. Understand the mechanism of depression and anxiety medications and learn why they may not be the best possible solution to the problem.

Gain an understanding on how diet, especially a vegan diet, becomes an important factor when dealing with depression. Explore how gut infections relate to depression and anxiety symptoms and know some of the natural solutions and recommendations in addressing depression and anxiety.

In this episode, we cover:Depression and Anxiety solutions

00:56   Medications mechanism

03:40   Vegetarian Diet and Depression

05:41   Gut Infections and Depression

14:00   Natural Solutions

18:18   Low Thyroid and Mood Issues





Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey guys! It’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani here. Hey Evan, how are we doing today, man?

Evan Brand: Hey man, I am great. We had a fun off-air chat. So I’m excited to chat with you about this important topic today— depression, anxiety, you know, mental health in general. But we’re gonna—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Evan Brand: ..specifically focus on depression, anxiety. As I was telling you, the center for disease control, they change the ranking over the past couple years. Now depression is the number one leading cause of disability. It’s actually grown over heart disease. It used to be heart disease was number one. Now depression is number one leading cause of disability. So that’s pretty alarming. I predicted this about four- five years ago I could just see the trend of society and now, it’s happened and it’s official.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. Depression is really important because a lot of the medications that are out there. I’m just gonna pull out my little Bluetooth headset here—all the medications that are out there, typically, only treat the symptoms. So you kinda have medication from like the 80’s called tricyclics, right? And these tended to—to work with a little a side effects that a lot of the current days SSRI’s or SSNRI’s, right? These are medications that work on blocking the reuptake of serotonin and norepinephrine or dopamine. And essentially it’s allowing more neurotransmitters to sit in between the pre- and the postsynaptic neuron. So neuron—neuron, pre-post- right? Before, after and then you have all this in between area called the synaptic cleft or the uhm—essentially that’s where a lot of the neurotransmitters would hangout. The longer those guys hang out in that area, typically, what happens is you’re gonna have uhm—a recycling of those neurotransmitters at a higher level. So the longer those neurotransmitters sit in that neuro- synaptic cleft there, the faster they get broken down. So that’s why over time, a lot of antidepressant medications have to go up because of the fact that those met—those chemicals are being broken down at a much faster rate. Does that make sense?

Evan Brand: Yup.  Well, the problem is, too, these medications they’re not addressing the root cause now. I know in some cases, they could be life saving therapies because they pull people out of a super deep depression or maybe they were suicidal. But as time and time goes on, the percentage used to be 80% of serotonin was coming from the gut and then it jumped up to 85 or 90% and then now, I keep seeing new literature coming out that the percentage is almost close to hundred percent now of serotonin from the gut. So we really have to address any gut infections we have to test for those, we have to find them, we have to fix them. If we really want to get to the root cause, the brain, of course, is a factor, but man, the gut seems like the biggest factor to me.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, it’s a major factor. And again, uh— one of the listeners here in the live chat brought up a lot of the shootings that have been happening recently. Yeah, these medications have a black label-warning, black box warning on them for suicidal tendencies, violent acts, these kinds of things. So it can really alter someone’s physiology and biochemistry were it may predispose them to—to these kind of violent act. So, again, I look at these type medications really only being used in a life or death kind of, “Hey, we’re gonna get this person stabilize so that  they don’t do something that they’re gonna regret.” But then we have to work on getting them off these medications and get to the root cause.

Evan Brand: Yup. Well said.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And that really has to be the end goal. We need to have a transitional goal in mind so we can get to the root cause whether we start adding in specific amino acids, amino acid therapy. A lot of these neurotransmitters they come from amino acids. So there’s kind of just like the replacement model of, “Hey, let’s add more amino acids into buildup serotonin and dopamine in the brain so you feel better.” There’s that component, right? And that may be really important especially if you have a lot of malabsorption, like you’re not breaking down proteins and fats, you have low stomach acid or enzymes. It may also be important like you’re a vegetarian or vegan and you’re not getting enough of these high-quality proteins and animal source which tend to be the most nutrient dense. So there’s a lot of different things that may drive that from an amino acid perspective. And you talk about 90+ percent in the gut. The question is, “Can that serotonin cross the blood brain barrier?” I’m not sure we know if it can. From what I understand, it can’t. But uhm—a lot of the precursor amino acids like tryptophan, and/ or 5-ACP can cross the blood brain barrier.

Evan Brand: Uh—got it. Okay. I guess, so you brought the vegetarian/vegan point. This is huge. You and I both work with so many vegetarians and vegans and sometimes, they’re just not willing to add-in things to the diet. So whether it’s like egg or even fish, they just don’t want to add it in. And I’ve seen the most depression anxiety problems from vegetarian and vegan. So I wouldn’t even say it’s like just a coincidence anymore. I mean I’ve seen it so often that it’s just—it’s it’s— gotta be causation in this— in this aspect.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, you’re gonna always get higher quality amino acids, proteins from animal products. It’s just how it is. Uhm—you’re not to get a whole bunch of anti-nutrients with them, right? The way animals defend themselves with teeth and with claws. The plants defend themselves are with anti-nutrients, compounds that make it harder to break down uhm—their constituents. The lectins, phytates, mineral blockers, anti-nutrients. They make it hard to break down some of these plant. That’s how plants kind of survive, right? Animals survive through uh—claws, and being able to run, fight and flee. But once you have an animal, right? Once you already killed it and you get that meat in the table, it’s not gonna  possess the same amount of anti-nutrients. And it tends to also have just pure protein and fat where a lot of the plant-based proteins are gonna have a whole bunch of carbohydrate along with it. Unless you’re doing like a pea protein powder or rice protein powder where the starch component has already been removed from the proteins.

Evan Brand: Yup. Yup. Well said. Uhm—let’s talk about some of the gut infections. How this could relate into depression, anxiety symptoms. We could talk about H. pylori. We had a question about that, too. So, we’ll go ahead and address it. How can H. pylori cause depression? We know that it’s gonna reduce stomach acid. If it’s reducing stomach acid, even if you are eating those good quality organic pastured animal proteins, you’re not gonna digest those. So you’re gonna have undigested food particles creating the leaky gut situation that can stress out the liver. We know there’s a link between mood issues and the liver. Sometimes it’s fatigue, sometimes depression, sometimes anger, irritability uh—things like that. And then you’ve got the aspect of the aminos. So I just already hit on. If you’re not digesting these proteins, that first domino could be affected all because of your low HCl production due to the H. pylori then all the sudden, you have no amino acids. Now, you’ve got no raw materials to manufacture neurotransmitters. So this is huge.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Hundred percent. So—so there’s a couple different components, right? Dan writes, “Can H. pylori cause depression?” Yeah. Well, number one, it’s gonna do it by a couple different ways. Number one, it’s gonna lower stomach acid and enzyme levels which make it harder to break down proteins and healthy fats which you know, fats tend to be a really important building block for the brain. And the proteins tend to be the building blocks for the neurotransmitters. So if we have decrease in the raw material of the brain, right? And we have decrease in the neurotransmitter raw material, then we’re gonna have issues with optimal mood health, for sure. Number two, is a lot of the uhm—bacterial components of H. pylori have what I call lipopolysaccharide or endotoxins, which can cause depression by itself. It does it through going to the brain and creating inflammation to the brain. It passes through the gut junctions, creates leaky gut, goes to the brain creates inflammation and create mood issues in the brain. It also can uhm—it also can just create leaky gut and which can increase the immune system. And when the immune system is kinda over reactive, it  can suck up a lot of energy. And when your energy is lower, it tend to have more likelihood of being depressed and being anxious. Typically, lower energy and depression tend to come hand-in-hand.

Evan Brand: Yup.  I had H. pylori have multiple parasites. So we had a question from Dawn. He was asking what parasites are the most destructive and what parasites would cause the most amount of depression. I don’t know if we can rank it like that 1-2-3. Number one is gonna cause the most depression but I know when I had Giardia and I had cryptosporidium, I had weight loss, I had H. pylori, I had fungus, I had Candida, I had SIBO, you know, pseudomonas and bacterial infections. I was just very, very, you know, not right in the head. My sleep was off which then affect my energy, which then affected my mood. So it’s hard to say like was it chicken or egg. These parasites cause depression or was it the fact that my sleep was disrupted, therefore I wasn’t actually waking up rested. And that made me tired and depressed. Uhm— Justin, do you have any comments to add about that, like parasites, could you rank them at all, saying crypto or Giardia’s worst than dientomoeba or blasto in terms of the amount of depression it creates?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, I would definitely say you—your parasites that are tending to cause more problems because they tend to be a little bit more endemic. They tend to cause more information. But regarding in which ones, it’s hard to say. I’ve seen people have other parasitic infections that cause more problems uhm— than what they typically say on paper. Like some people have uhm— Dientamoeba fragilis but that’s typically one that may not cause a lot of symptoms. So the question is, well, why did it cause a lot of symptoms for you and not the other person. So, again, things like histo and crypto, it tend to cause more problems, but sometimes you may have a less virulent type of parasite infection and it may cause just as many issues for you. So the question is if you have an infection and you have symptoms, especially if you have  an infection and you have digestive symptoms, we got out work on getting the digestion better and then fixing the infections next.

Evan Brand: Yup. Well said. So we have a question about “Is it possible to for your partner to give you a parasite or if it enters your body while your system fight it off?”  The literature is not clear on parasitic infections. Now Justin can tell you about like some of the correlations we’ve seen where partners have infections. We know 100% H. pylori is passed all the time. 90% of the time, I have someone that shows up with H. pylori, the spouse eventually has to get involved. We have to get them tested and we end up having to create a protocol for them, too, because I’ve had people where we create a protocol, the H. pylori’s gone on the retest of the stool and then the symptoms come back a few months later. We do another stool test, then all of a sudden H. pylori’s back again like what the hell happened. Typically it’s the partners. So then we have to get the spouse, boyfriend, girlfriend tested. They usually are the source and also we create a protocol for both of them and all of a sudden they get better. Now parasites, though, I don’t know. Justin,  what’s your thoughts on passing all the parasites you know, kinda back and forth between each other? What have you seen?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I think that’s a 100% probable. We see it a lot with our chronically ill patients that tend to get reinfected over and over. That’s a factor that we always look at to make sure we get the partner, the spouse addressed coz you can definitely pass it back and forth. And I’m more worried about the inflammation, I’m more worried about leaky gut, I’m more worried about the LPS and the endotoxins making the way to the brain and creating inflammation and symptoms there. I’m also worried about just of the maldigestion, not breaking things down well not having enough stomach acid, enzymes, bile salts. So just affecting the digestion, number one. Affecting the leaky gut, number two. And then eventually making its way to the brain. Leaky gut will also cause leaky brain and that could also create more symptoms as well.

Evan Brand: Yup. Well said.  I mean the leaky brain thing, most people don’t talk about it. I think we’ve— we’ve hit or— we’ve hit on that topic on many episodes but I don’t think we’ve done a full one. So maybe we should add that to the list. The whole leaky brain episode. But, people, you do want to realize, if you have leaky gut and this could just be caused from non-celiac gluten sensitivity. If you’re eating gluten, we know that’s creating the leaky gut situation. That’s creating leaky brain. If you take a GABA supplement and you get relaxed from it, you have a leaky brain. And that’s not good. Because then you’re sitting in traffic, you’re breathing in diesel fumes and other pollutants. That stuff is having direct access through the blood brain barrier, which normally would protect you so that the integrity of that barrier is super important. Uhm—there’s another question here about depression. Could it be caused because of a lack of dopamine? Is supplementing with tyrosine sufficient enough to help depressive moods? Yes and no. The thing with the amino acids is it’s like a spider web. So if you do start modifying serotonin, things can get messed up with dopamine. If you just start pounding L-tyrosine, that doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s gonna fix your problem either. So, really, you wanna get organic acids test first and figure out what’s going on coz we can measure dopamine. A lot of people think they have low dopamine but it’s actually too low serotonin or some people have low serotonin and they think that it’s that. But it’s actually not. It’s actually low dopamine instead. So, vice versa. I hope that made sense. But across the board, you could be low in GABA, you could be low in your catecholamines, you could be low with your norepinephrine, epinephrine, you could be lower cortisol. So even cortisol can be a component of depression because if you’ve got adrenal problems, that cortisol rhythm is too low, your batteries aren’t charged or you’ve got too high cortisol, or your cortisol is all over the place fluctuating high and low, which could all be due to these infections. That’s the perfect recipe for depression. So tyrosine may or may not be the solution for you.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. And I have one article here. It talks about dietary proteins having a substantial effect on the composition of gut bacteria. And they talked about for instance, suggestion of intake of dairy and meat protein at recommended level may be beneficial to maintain balance composition of gut bacteria compare with soy protein. Now, again, some of the studies are rat-based so it’s not gonna be a direct correlation, but having a healthy gut bacterial level may decrease some of that gram-negative bacteria which is some of the not so nice uhm—bacteria that tend to cause more of the LPS, right? The lipopolysaccharide and endotoxin. So if we can get the gut bacteria more in the balance, that may decrease the LPS, help with healthier gut integrity, help with less LPS getting into the brain, which creates a mood issues that way, too.

Evan Brand: Yup. So did you want to go into some of the natural solutions now? I mean, we’ve hit on neurotransmitters a bit. We hit on infection, so finding and fixing those. What about some of the free stuff, like just exercise alone just increasing BDNF, getting the movement, getting the blood going. I mean that’s huge.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.

Evan Brand: I mean exercise has change my life.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I would say that the BDNF, the Brain Derived Neurotropic Factor really helps with mood, helps with healthy, uhm— myelination, improvement of brain building uh—keep staying away from grains is really important because that can decrease blood flow up the garden hose. It’s called the carotid artery to the brain. If we decrease blood flow, we’re gonna, one, not be able clear out inflammation as well. We’re also not gonna be able to bring oxygen and nutrition to help the brain, too. So gluten is a big one. I would say, of course, your amino acid, serotonin 5 HCPL tyrosine, of course, B6 is really important. And if we’ve got bacterial imbalances that will affect B6. Also, healthy probiotics can help with gut inflammation. Remember inflammation in the gut will create inflammation in the brain. So healthy levels of Lactobacillus, bifida bacter, probotics will help cool down inflammation in the gut, which may help decrease some of that that glial site activation in the brain, which again is—is an inflammatory cell in the brain. It’s a white blood cell that it’s in the brain called the glial cells and when those get activated, it can create uhm—brain fog and it can also create mood issues, too.

Evan Brand: Oh, I wanna go back to the diet piece. So there is a piece of literature out there, a study of 9,700 vegetarians including some vegans, they were twice as likely to suffer from depression as meat eaters even after adjusting for variables such as job status, family history, and number of children. And then it goes on to talk about the lower intake of omega-3 fats, B12 and folate, which all can affect depression risk. Uhm—so on that note of the Omega 3’s, yeah, DHA, fish oil supplement could be helpful, but also, you’ve got pastured meats. You know, grass-fed beef alone contains so much more Omega threes than your standard typical low-quality meat. So, that is a really, really good piece of the puzzle.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Uhm— definitely getting 3 to 4 servings, 4 ounces of healthy fish per week is gonna be great, wild Alaskan, sockeye, skipjack tuna, you know, kinda  high selenium to low mercury type of fish. You can just google that, high selenium to low mercury fish. It’s typically the higher ones are gonna be like the uhm— the shark pilot whale, those things, swordfish are gonna be much higher in mercury to selenium. Skipjack’s gonna be great. Wild Alaskan sockeye is gonna be great. Cod, Haddock, Sole. These are all gonna be higher selenium, lower Mercury. That’s great. And if you want to be on top of it more, you can do your 2 to 4 g of fish oil per day is excellent. That will have EPA and DHA in it.  You know the ones like my Omega supreme has lipase in it. It’s also a triglyceride form, so it’s better absorbed, number one. LS oxidation, number two. And then the actual lipase will help you break it down in case there’s some fatty acid, you know, the digestion uh— digestive compromise things going on in there, too.

Evan Brand: Yeah. Well said. If you’re buying fish oil supplements, people, if it smells fishy, throw that stuff out. It’s garbage. It’s ethyl ester form. If you go to Target, Walgreens, uh— any of these big box stores and you’re buying fish oil, it’s crap. Do not waste your money. Buy professional grade supplement. Check out Justin’s site, justinhealth I’ve also got one, evanbrand Just look us up. Find our stores. And we’ve got good fish oils because if you’re not doing professional grade, you’re wasting your money and there’s actually literature now that if it is an oxidized rancid fish oil, you’re actually creating more inflammation when the whole goal is to suppress inflammation and help depression. You’re making it worse if  you’re doing the low-quality like a Kirkland’s or a Costco or Sam’s Club or these big box uhm—fish oils, vitamin Shoppe, GNC. All those guys. That’s all consumer grade. It’s all ethyl ester. That’s not good. You want triglyceride.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly.  And Teresa mentions a low T3. So if you have low thyroid levels, poor T4 to T3 conversion, right? Or lower thyroid or active fiber hormone T3 or tri iodo thyronine, that’s important. Low thyroid can create mood issues. It can create depression. So we’d want to get to the root cause of why the thyroid is low. It could be just a combination of an autoimmune issue driven by gluten and other infections it could be a nutrient conversion issue like selenium and vitamin A, copper, zinc, magnesium. It also could be uhm—you know, gut bacteria issue. It could also be a stress issue like cortisol, right? So adrenal function has major effects on mood, too. If the adrenals are hyper or hypo functioning, there could be some mood issues there. It could be fatigue, it could be anxiety, it could be depression, it could be a combination of all three. Typically, anxiety and depression tend to come together. Some people can have them just individually where they are either anxious or depressed. But some people they tend to ebb and flow between the two.

Evan Brand: Yup. Well said. So if you have thyroid problems, you’ve got to investigate the gut, you’ve got to investigate the adrenals. We talk about that, but we can never stop talking about it because your conventional doc is not bringing this up. When you go there and you show up slightly off with your TSH, they’re not gonna say, “Hey, maybe you have gut infections. It’s causing conversion problems. Maybe you have adrenal problems that’s messing up your conversion of active thyroid hormone.” They’re not gonna say that. So we have to keep talking about it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hundred percent. And so outside of that, yeah, Tessa makes a note,
“Hey, I don’t have a  thyroid.” Then you really have to make sure you’re on a full-spectrum thyroid glandular and your T3 levels are at a therapeutic level, at least above 3.0 for T3 free. Ideally, I’ll make sure T4 is above 1.0  That’s a really good starting point. And then James mentions, “What about Olympian labs omega-3 fish oil?” I’m not quite sure. It could be good, it may not. Typically, you get what you pay for. Number one, you want to make sure it’s a triglyceride form. Number two and ideally you want to make sure it’s in, you know, this is like a plus, like I , add in the lipase coz I have worked with a lot of patient that have compromised guts and I want to make sure they can break the fish oils down well. So that is another important component.

Evan Brand: Yeah I’m looking at it right now. I can’t find any information about whether that brand is a triglyceride form or not. So I’ll keep digging and see if I could find it. But, Justin and I were biased because we want people to get better. We have to actually follow up with our clients and speak with them. And if they’re not getting better that comes back on us. And so we really want to use and we always use the highest quality professional grade formulas, which tend to have tighter quality control and better certain—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And also just better potency, too. I remember  I had some issues in the supply chain because some of the nutrients that we were getting, were testing positive with some—some metals and some other not—not so nice compounds. So they sent it back to the manufacturer. So the nice thing is we’re always trying to look and make sure there’s no other contaminations where let’s say a lesser quality company may just say, “look the other way and just let it go.” So we’re trying to put that quality control on it to ensure that there is not to be any extra crap in it that could throw you off, so to speak.

Evan Brand: Yes. So I ended up on the Olympia labs website here for this fish oil. It looks like and this is just to cheap, right? So if you see something for 30 bucks for a 120, that— it just sounds too cheap already. So to me, that tells me not gonna be triglyceride form. I read the entire description. I don’t see one word that includes a triglyceride form. So to me, it’s ethyl ester. You could always contact them and say, “Hey, is it up ethyl ester triglyceride?” But I’m gonna bet a hundred bucks that it’s gonna be ethyl ester which is inferior. You don’t want to put that in your body.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. But again, if you’re doing three or four servings of 4 ounces of fish a week, you may not even need fish oil. Uh—again, if you have extra inflammation, or extra brain stuff going on, cognitive stuff, mood stuff, then I would recommend supplementing it. Just so you get extra bit on top of it. Just to ensure that you know, what you’re getting is getting to where it needs to go. Is there anything else you want to add, Evan, about depression or mood stuff regarding functional medicine here?

Evan Brand: I think that’s it. We hit the gut, we hit the adrenals, we hit the thyroid aminos, liver function, digestive, anti-inflammation. I think we’ve hit all, man.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Awesome. Well, hey,  great talk today. We’re doing some quicker podcast so we can get more content out there to everyone. Hope you appreciate it.  If you enjoy it, give us a thumbs up. Subscribe. Click on the bell now. With YouTube, they make it so you don’t get a lot of the notifications of new videos and new content unless you are subscribed and you hit the bell. So click on that bell. Do it for Evan’s channel as well and myself. That way, you can get all this really good spoon-fed information for you guys to continue to improve your health and your friends and family health, too.

Evan Brand: Yup. If you need to reach out for a consult with Dr. J or myself, go to Justinhealth.com Evanbrand.com You can schedule consult with this. We’ll help you via phone and Skype. We work with people worldwide. We’ll help you get tested, get to the root cause. So look us up. Book a call if you need help. Don’t try to piece it together for suffering. We’re here for you. So have a great day. Take Care.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Thanks, Evan. Take Care.






Using Spore-based Probiotics (Sporebiotics) to Improve Your Health – Live Podcast #157

Dr. Justin Marchegiani and Evan Brand talk about spore probiotics and their importance in modulating the immune system. Learn about Th1 and Th2 immune system, understand the negative effect of vaccines on them and know the role of  probiotics in the imbalances created by vaccines.

Gain information on some of the probiotics strains and know how their acidity and timing of intake impacts absorption. Discover the answers and explanations to questions about lectins and digestive enzymes in relation to probiotics. 

Sporebiotics to Improve Your Health

In this episode, we cover:

03:00   EMF’s and Infections

06:29   L. Gasseri and Histamine

09:16   Th1, Th2 immune system

18:55   Paleo template and IBS

24:48   Lectins






Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yo, yo, yo! It’s Dr. J here in the house. It’s a great, magnificent Monday. I got my little Topo Chico, a little sparkling bubbles here. Evan, how was your weekend, man?

Evan Brand: Oh, life is good. I don’t remember the weekend. The weekends are so weird once you have a baby. I’m sure you figured out the same thing. The weekend is just like, it go by and then all of a sudden, it’s Monday again. And I just love working so much that it’s like, “Oh, it’s Monday, my favorite day of the week.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I feel the same way, too. I love Mondays coz I love getting back in the swing and creating content and seeing patients and getting all these uh—great feedbacks of people getting better or you know, you get challenging cases that really cause you to roll up your sleeves. So I definitely like that, for sure.

Evan Brand: Me too. And how was it for you?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It was great.  Uhm—this weekend, my wife—coz we’ve been—we had a baby like a month and a half ago, it’s the August 21st and for the first, she went out Friday and Saturday night. And I had babysitting duty. It was great.

Evan Brand: Oh man, I’ve never done that myself_ the 15th month old.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Not yet? Yes. She went out and she gave me a bottle, you know breast milk in a bottle. And just gave me uh—you know, a little bottle but, you know, it created a little balance there because she’s been basically breast-feeding often on every hour or two for the last six weeks. It’s hard because she was—

Evan Brand: Did she text you the whole time missing the baby?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, I was kinda giving her updates. But she was feeding, doing the SNS and then pumping and then the time that all finished, the next feeding started in 45 minutes. You can imagine that for five or six weeks. It’s really hard. Now it’s getting like two hours after or an hour and a half to two hours. So now it’s like, “Oh, it’s getting a little bit better.” You know, two hours, you can at least close your eyes and get a little bit of be restorative sleep in there. So that’s good.

Evan Brand: That’s great. Cool. So you were uh—you were the babysitter.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s it, man.

Evan Brand: That’s awesome.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Life is— it’s crazy how life is, man. Just things continue to evolve and you get satisfaction out of different things. You wouldn’t think it. Holding your baby and having them smile at you or just hold your finger whatever could be that satisfying but—ain’t it funny how that all changes?

Evan Brand: I know, man. It’s great. It’s like DNA trick. So we’ll take care of them.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. Now, we wanted to talk today about the probiotic, speaking of DNA. We want to talk about probiotics. And probiotics—again, we’re gonna hone the topics. We talked about probiotics before but we’re gonna really address the area of spore probiotics which are like the cell walls of the specific spores called bacillus spores. There’s a couple that we use in our clinic called Bacillus Clausii Subtilis and Coagulans. Bacillus Coagulans, Subtilis and Clausii. Those are the big ones that we use and these are the basically the cell wall of these kind of bacteria which is the spore. And they have an awesome, awesome benefit of modulating the immune system. Couple other things we find – a lot of these microbes in our body— fungus and bacteria and parasites— EMF’s or electromagnetic frequencies have a real negative effect on making these infections worse. And what refining is some of these bacillus strains, some of the spore strength can really help combat against the negative effects that EMF has with some of these critters. That’s another good benefit. I’ll open up the floor to you here, Evan.

Evan Brand: Yeah. So EMF— I mean I’ve done episodes on this since the inception of the podcast in 2012. So it was five years of talking about it in some shape or form. The more I learn about it, the more that I learned it affects everybody’s systems. So like you just say, uh—I’m gonna say it in a different way. The EMF can actually strengthen the virulence of these infections. So someone’s got parasites, yeast, fungus— we may need to look at bringing probiotics in and really upping and upping and upping the beneficial bacteria to try to counteract the effects of EMF. Now just because you’re not sensitive to EMF, doesn’t mean that it’s not a factor, right? You might not have the headaches or the— the ringing of the ears that a lot of people talk about where the heart palpitations. Like you may not have true EHS like Electronic Hypersensitivity Syndrome or EHS or they have different names for. If you’re not that sensitive, it doesn’t matter. You’re still going to benefit by protecting yourself and protecting your microbes by using either these bacillus spores that we’re going to talk about or just by using other types of probiotics. And at the right time, uh— one thing I wanted you to hit on Justin is talk about the timing of bed and how we can work this in because many people go to whole foods and they buy a probiotic and they take it and then come back to us and they say, “Dr. J and Evan, I took probiotics and I feel worse. What’s going on?” It’s all about timing.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes. So there’s a couple different things. So a lot of probiotics like your bacillus uh—sorry—your lactobacillus, acidophilus, right? Your bifidobacter kinds of probiotics, right? These probiotics tend to be more acid-sensitive. Now there are some that Evan has in his line that are acid-resistant because during this—this like a sphere that it kind of is acid-resistant. And taking that and kinda get through some of stomach acid. We may also just hide it on an empty stomach to bypass the stomach acid so we can have that bacteria intact when it gets to the small intestines, the colon. And then we can have a lot of benefits with immune modulation. We can have uhm— a lot of benefits of boosting up the healthy bacteria so we get better B vitamin pers—uhm— increase coz we get the good bacteria produce a B vitamins. Also, healthy bacteria, I know with the bacillus strains that we see, one of the great things as it helps convert sugar to vitamin C. And vitamin C is super important for collagen, for immune function, for oxidative stress, right? Oxidation is the apple that you cut open then it sits on the countertop and turned brown or the nail left outside that gets rusty. That’s oxidation. That’s a loss of an electron. Antioxidants like vitamin C can help donate electrons to prevent the oxidative stress. So healthy bacteria and particularly the bacillus strains can really help with the vitamin C uhm— conversion from sugar, which is great. And then your other strains like the bac—like the lactobacillus acidophilus, right? These produce acids, which are great coz acid– acidic environment actually keeps a lot of the bad bacteria and fungus in check from growing. That’s why a lot of people do great with apple cider vinegar. It is like this cure-all because the acetic acid has got a very low pH that makes it really hard for microbes and not so nice microbes to work and also can stimulate your own HCl production as well.

Evan Brand: Yup. We have a question from Haley. She said she read that the strain L Gasseri reduces histamine. Have you ever heard of this? Yes. I have heard of certain strains of probiotics helping to reduce histamine. I don’t know if this is correct, but I remember seeing that the Rhamnosus species—I could try find this journal I had bookmarked— I believe the lactobacillus Rhamnosus was something that actually increase histamine, which is why some people may feel worse. I just found it here. Histamine production by lactobacillus Rhamnosus. And Haley just said she read other strains can increase. Yeah. I’ve read the same thing as well, which is why typically, we’re gonna use a combination. And we’ll likely going to have a blend. So if you’ve got some things that are stabilizing histamine, you’re typically going to counteract the other one that could increase histamine.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Again, people that typically are histamine-sensitive, a lot of times probiotics in general can create histamine intolerance. Uhm— so I see a lot of people that will just do a really good, you know, lactobacillus or bifido bacter or lactobacillus plantarum, whatever, like that may cause them to get bloated or gassy. If they are probiotic intolerant, one of the things we go to is we go to a spore-like probiotic because people that are histamine-sensitive tend to be able to tolerate that well. And one thing we like about the bacillus spores is it’s acid resistant. So you can actually take it with food, which can make it a little bit easier to process than taking it may be on empty stomach. So we like that.

Evan Brand: Yeah. Now, like you mentioned, you and I use some specific types of probiotics out there. They can have an encapsulating technology, where you can reserve them.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Evan Brand: So this doesn’t mean that you have to ditch all other probiotics. It just means unless you’re using the formulas that Justin and I have, if you’re not using ours, then you want to use a spore-based because all the other ones, unless it says, “Hey we’ve got some special— if you’re looking at the label— unless it says, “Hey we got a special tableting technology that protects from stomach acid” you’re kinda wasting your money on most of the probiotics.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, absolutely. I know the ones that we typically use they will put like colony forming units on there, which you know, that’s like how many probiotics that are in there. There’s a couple of things to look at. Number one is— is that the colony forming units of the probiotic that were put in there when it was bottled? Or how many they expect to be in their expiration one or two years later? So number one, when we put the CFU on that bottle, that’s gonna be how many we expect to be there in 1 to 2 years later when it expires. So, you’re ideally adding so many extra in there. So you’re compensating for potential things that may knock it out like heat or shipping or storage stuff. Just things that are normal with getting that product to the patient. So when you know what’s in the bottle there, you’re typically getting more than what’s in the bottle because we have to make sure we overshoot and compensate for all the little mishaps that may lower it.

Evan Brand: Right. Well said. So, talk about the immune system a bit. You wrote some notes before the show about the TH1 and the TH2 immune system. Can you talk us through that and kinda break down what TH1 is, and 2, which some of us are TH2 dominant in the modern world now mainly from vaccines. And that the TH1 system, this kind of seesaw can be balanced out with the use of these spore probiotics.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Great question, Evan. So a lot of people their TH2 immune system is over stimulated and your TH2 immune system— think about it— it’s the antibody-based immune system. It’s the humoral-based immune system. So the whole goal of like your immune system is you have like the front-line defense. This is like the Army Rangers, the Delta team; Seal team six, the Navy SEAL’s, right? These are the people, they get in there first and they make—they make stuff happen, right? These are the guys that go in there first. They radio back and then the infantry comes in second, right? So they give the infantry, they come in a few days later once they got Intel and you know everything’s been surveilled, right? All the special forces, they radio in the special forces are the cytotoxic or the natural killer kind of that cytotoxic first branch of the immune system, the TH1. And the TH2 is kinda more that delayed antibody-based immune system that comes in after the fact. And when we look at what vaccinations do is they boost up to give a little bit of that compound that you’re trying to develop an immune response to i.e. the infantry and you’re trying to boost that up. So you’re trying to keep basically this infantry that’s hanging out, that’s waiting—that’s waiting for that critter to come in. The problem is when you boost up that infantry more, more, more, more, more, more, well, there’s collateral damage that can happen like allergies and other issues on the immune side if you continue to boost it up too high. And that’s why one of the big trade-offs that has happened with a lot of vaccinations over the years is a lot allergies, there’s a lot of ADD, there’s a lot of other parts, a lot of symptoms that can happen just because that a part of the immune system is so over stimulated. And when we dig to some of these bacillus spores, right? That can help knock down the TH2 by boosting up the TH1. Think of it as a seesaw as one side goes up, one goes down. So when you boost that TH2 up so high, you’re basically decreasing that cycotoxic, those Navy SEALs, those Army Rangers, right, that Delta force, right, that were lowering that. So by knocking that seesaw down on the  TH2, we do it by boosting up the TH1 and those bacillus force can be super helpful at doing that.

Evan Brand: Yup. And medicinal mushrooms, too. We can stack mushrooms on this.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Evan Brand: …with these and we can help modulate TH1. So—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We can totally do that.

Evan Brand: We got a couple questions. We have one about food combinations, we have one about infrared sauna. Here’s one from Tessa that’s on-topic about probiotics. “Is it good—is it good to take with digestive enzymes?” I guess you’re saying, “Is it good to take digestive enzymes and probiotics together?” My answer would be no. Generally, just because the stomach acid is likely going to kill those. Now even if you are taking a super high professional grade formula like Justin and I are using with you, still, we don’t want to try out a breakdown that technology. If we can preserve those bacteria and get that to the colon, where it’s really gonna do the good thing, I would take your probiotics before you go to bed. Because there’s no competition for stomach acid at that time.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. Yup. So I think taking up probiotics in the morning when you get up first thing or before you go to bed at the very end. Take your enzymes with food typically you can do enzymes before meal, too.

Evan Brand: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhm—again, but typically, with the meals also fine as well. And regarding uhm—did you ask about food combining, yet?

Evan Brand: Well, I didn’t read the question yet. I just said best food combinations. Once you can’t go wrong with like meat and salad.

Justin M: Yeah. It’s typically meat and non-starchy. Meat and non-starchy vegetables, chicken and broccoli. Those kind of things. Typically, fruit by themselves. Again, that may cause blood sugar stuff. So, again, I typically only deal with food combining stuff where maybe starch and fruit are eaten a little bit away from things if there’s a lot of digestive issues. And if there’s a lot of like fructose malabsorption, when you really can’t digest much fruit either, fruits gone.

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And they may not be able to tolerate much starch. And again, some of these changes when you go lower FODMAP, too. When you go lower FODMAP fruit or lower FODMAP starch that may get better. And if you also up the HCl and the enzymes, some of those symptoms that you may see a relief from when you food combined correctly, right? You may not need that.

Evan Brand: Yup, well said. There were two other things we wanted to mention about the TH1, TH2 system. One, you mentioned like ADD or you know, some type of developmental problems like autistic children, they could have an issue with—with their TH1, TH2 balance. So this is where the spore biotics can come in to the equation and fix it and then also food sensitivities. Now a lot of the stuff gets better, too. You know Justin and I talk so much about parasites things like H. pylori infections, bacterial infections that are suppressing stomach acid. So food intolerances are typically related to the gut, but also, we found that this whole immune system thing can also be a factor and just by getting more beneficial bacteria and the right strains as well, all the sudden food sensitivities go away and you can start adding stuff back in that you used to not be able to tolerate.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Some of that just because there is a little bit of peanut oil sometimes in some of the vaccinations as a preservative and uhm—there’s also uhm—some proteins in there. So a lot of peanuts, you know, peanuts the last 20 years has been a huge one. I mean you can’t even take a lot of times peanuts into a regular elementary school.

Evan Brand: I know. It’s crazy.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So I think that’s part of it. I there’s a lot of theories that are out there saying that. So, I mean, may not be super hard evidence on it, but we know that the amount of vaccines have, you know, triple, quadruple over the last 20 years since 91 really—1991. That—that could be a driving factor. That would make sense, for sure.

Evan Brand: Yeah. I was glad uh—Eric Berg. He put out a video about vaccines. Did you happen to see that one?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: No, I didn’t.

Evan Brand: He has a good video. Look it up when you got time. But  it was a good video. He was just like, “What’s my take? People asked me.” He’s like, I don’t like him.”  And he’s got full list of all the different things that are inside of those and then plus he talks about all the different things that were deemed safe by the FDA like DES that all those women were taking and then you have all these different birth issues—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Thalidomide—with the—with the kids with uh very short arms.

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. And again, on the vaccine, though, too, if you look at—there’s a big study that was done. I think in 2014. But they looked at kinda vaccine dosages across, you know, how many dosage, or how many individual vaccines across all the countries. And I think it was a lot of the Scandinavian countries that had 75% less vaccinations and better health— better overall health.

Evan Brand: Right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So I mean, I think just kinda keeping in mind that there may be some benefits from vaccines, but it’s not health never comes from a needle. Not just because you get a vaccine, it does not replace sleep and nutrition and hydration and obviously, a cleaner environment, too, which is huge, right? Plumbing and those kinda things make a massive difference when it comes to infectious disease. But these countries show that you know, much less vaccines dosage-wise, huge difference. I mean they were much— you know, far beyond us health-wise.

Evan Brand: Yup. So if you can’t go back in time and change how you were vaccinated as a kid, this could also give you inspiration about how you approach adult vaccines. Coz now I’ve got a lot of clients I know you do, too that are approaching us and asking us about shingles vaccines that the doctors are really pushing hard for people over age 60. And then also the flu vaccines, which I’ve had people who get the flu after they got the flu vaccine.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. It’s a live attenuated virus. You look on the vaccine inserts, it’s 20% chance of having flu-like symptoms because of the vaccine. It’s on the insert. I mean this isn’t even controversial stuff, unless you actually go in there and ask for the vaccine insert like I have. And then you just_ the side effects and you say, “Hey, look here’s a side effect right there. And it’s I mean, chills, malaise, headaches, you know, achy, tired—that sounds like the flu to me. What do you think?

Evan Brand: It is. I mean, well, it is the flu. And the issue, too, with the CDC is that when they’re making those flu vaccines, they’re only coming up with certain strains, right? So if there’s another strain outside of the one you got vaccinated for, you’ll still get the flu that year and still feel terrible.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: Plus, you’ve got the aluminum and what other preservatives or things in there that are activating that virus for your or—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right. Totally. So kinda the idea is when the vaccination side is your manipulating your infantry, right? You’re boosting up, you’re getting a special reserve of that infantry that’s gonna be specially trained for that one little critter that comes into your body, which you know, definitely has uhm—some use for. Now, my philosophy is let’s just get your immune system so freaking strong.

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Let’s get all these infantry guys lifting weights and— and you know, rock-solid with the nutrition and diet, so then they’re so ready to go. They’re gonna just plow through any critters and that’s kinda what we’re talking about with all the diet, lifestyle, the nutritional support, uhm—the nutrients to up regulate the immune system, the probiotics like mega spore biotics is one that we use. We’ll put a link below for the link here, my store for that. If you wanna see that. It’s the one that I use. It’s a bacillus clausii, subtilis and coagulans strain that can help balance that TH2, drop it out, pop the TH1—that’s great. Uh—also, medicinal mushrooms like __and other herbs, too. Astragalus,__—

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Andrographis, uhm—silver, vitamin D, of course, glutathione. These are all great immune modulators so we can really get that infantry boosted up and stronger, right?

Evan Brand: Yup. Perfect. Rachel, nice to see you. She’s got a question, “My husband was regular before we went Paleo / Primal, but since about two years, he’s slower, no longer pooping daily, we eat lots of veggies, he’s not a stress personality type. Any advice to improve? Justin, what do you think?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, off the bat, very simple. I would look at just increasing a little bit more starch, little bitt of sweet potato that may shift things, number one. Uh—n number two, make sure the veggies are cooked if you’re doing this more raw stuff, and that’s causing him to backup, do a little bit more cooked, steamed, sautéed— that’s number two. Number three, adding some enzymes and HCl. Uhm— and then number three, get your gut looked at. If there’s still issues with maybe dysbiosis. What happens is sometimes that starch can help feed some of that beneficial bacteria and that gets drop-down when the starch goes down. So pop it up a little bit of sweet potato, plantains, squash, may give that good bacteria a little pop. Uh— but in the meantime, it’s just as a palliative. Uhm— not pooping daily, not passing 12 inches of stool daily is not good. You get something called autointoxication where you start to reabsorb a lot of the toxins in your stool. So a little bit of magnesium citrate daily to keep those bowels moving and then taper off uhm— down the road. You know, give yourself a few weeks to kinda make those changes and see if you can be regular on your own.

Evan Brand: Rachel, I believe you’ve got your stool test back from— from me. Uh so look on there, too. Uh—you know, one thing that I would suggest, too, get your husband a stool test and look at the beta glucuronidase enzyme like Justin is talking about with autointoxication piece. We can measure that with the enzyme and we can fix it. Milk thistle and supporting the liver and getting rid of gut bugs but you know, if there’s H. pylori or parasites or other bacterial infections that he could have, you guys could be passing things back and forth. The infections could be slowing down the motility. I just put out a podcast with this guy, Ken Brown, who’s a gastroenterologist and he was teaching me more about methane and how certain species of these uh— bacteria during SIBO cases are actually slowing the bowel transit time. So, literally, bacterial overgrowth could just be the culprit due to the methane production. And of course, he’s selling his supplement to reduce methane but if you just fix the SIBO, that will also get your bowels more regular. So I hope that helps.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it. Very cool. Well, anything else you want to add about uhm— spore based probiotics?

Evan Brand: I think it’s something that should be in everybody’s toolbox. I don’t know if it’s the silver bullet. I don’t know if it’s the—you know, a lot of people find something that helps them, so then it’s like this is the only thing you can use out there. I still think there’s other benefits to other probiotics that we use, but I do think it should be in everyone’s toolbox and they should at least consider looking at it and potentially using it. Could you just randomly go and take it if you’ve got a bunch of symptoms? What’s your take? I’ve had so many people take probiotics so willy-nilly and they feel worse. So I really think it’s important to get tested first before you spend your money on this.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I find that’s— it’s one of those things where it is other deeper issues there. It’s not gonna be a root causal thing, right? There’s too many other things going on in motion. The more other things are happening in motion, and they aren’t stopped or they aren’t addressed, that it may help a little bit, but it may make no difference at all. So I always say get the low hanging fruit under control and then if you want to add it, then great. If you want to work with a functional medicine provider like us that kind of get things lined up for you, make sure everything’s in order, and then add it in. Some patients I see, it really doesn’t change anything; Some patients, it makes it a little difference; some patients, it makes a huge difference. But we’re not ever hanging your hat on one thing, but sometimes one thing can make a big difference but we never expect to. So then we’re always pleasantly surprised if we get one of those great cases.

Evan Brand: Yup. Well said. Well, I’d say, before we just become a rambling man, we can wrap it up. I think this was a helpful episode for people. Add it to your toolbox, do a little bit of research. I think we may have done other shows. I’m sure we hit on probiotics all the time, but—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think so.

Evan Brand: But if you’ve got, if you’ve got people in your family that have issues maybe they just won’t change the diet, they could potentially get benefit. Maybe if you’re looking for that one thing to try to get someone started into this field of functional medicine, maybe that spore probiotic is the first step. And then maybe that excites them and that encourages them to pursue the diet, the lifestyle, the sleep, the stress, the infections, the testing and all that. If that’s the catalyst, then that’s awesome.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. How we talk about any supplement is in kind of context of a whole program. Like we’re doing all these different things, we’re addressing all these things and then this is another maybe piece that we plug into. We’re not saying, “Oh, we plug this piece into someone who doesn’t—who’s not doing a darn thing.” We’re plugging it into a program.

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Where everything is being looked at. So that’s just kind of our context. S if you’re one of these people that aren’t on a program or aren’t doing anything diet or lifestyle wise that’s really healthy and then you think it’s gonna be that magic bullet, just want to make sure we set your expectations accordingly. And just, you know, don’t forget that majority of antibiotics aren’t just true antibiotic prescriptions if they are in the food supply. So being more organic and eating healthy animal products healthy fats, that’s gonna be helpful so you won’t get that antibiotic exposure which will throw off your gut. And healthy gut bacteria, it produces nutrition, right? Uhm— good bacteria eats, poop and poop nutrition. Bad bacteria eats nutrition and poop. In other words, back it up. Good bacteria provides nutrients in your body just like I mentioned with the spores and the vitamin C which then helps with vitamin K which then helps with vitamin D, of course, and healthy bones, too. But it also—the bad stuff produces a whole bunch of crappy toxins. LPS, lithocholic acid, etc. These things help open the gut lining, make your gut a little bit more leaky which then gets that TH2 immune system overreacting because you got all these undigested food particles that you start developing an immune response to. Not so good. That really gets your TH2 now even more jacked up.

Evan Brand: Yup. Well said. We have one question from Neil. He said, “Do you think lectins are an issue?” Some are saying lectins are real problem, other say beans and legumes are one of the common factors of the blue zone areas. The blue zone, for people listening, that’s like the people that are living to 9000+ years old. They are eating a lot of beans and such. “Love the podcasting.” Thanks for the feedback, Neil. Justin and I when we talk about grains, for example, like with rice pressure cookers, the way to do it. If I do any organic white rice, it’s typically like a treat for me. I put it in the pressure cooker I tend to feel much, much, much better. But beans, I don’t really do beans. Justin, what’s your take?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’ll do beans every now. Uhm—but like maybe once a month, but it’s all about context. Let me give you, for instance. “Evan, our massage is good for you.

Evan Brand: (laughs) I would say yes.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, great. Our massage is good for you. Do they feel good when you have a really bad sunburn?

Evan Brand: Oh, not really.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: No. Well, think of your gut as like a sunburn. Like your gut, it’s all irritated and inflamed with critters. So the more sunburn and the more intense that sunburn is, the more you may not be able to handle things that have lectins or these gut-irritating compounds in them. So the sunburn gets better, you can handle that nice massage. Your gut gets better and healthier and more infection-free and more good bacteria build backup. Could you tolerate a little bit of uh—legumes here and there? Yeah, more than likely. Some may not, right? There’s not a be-all end-all thing but some may. So it’s all about the context. Typically, the less inflamed you are, the better ability you have to adapt to a stressor like lectins, for instance.

Evan Brand: Yes. So now I’m gonna say the guys name because I don’t want to give them anymore—uh—anymore press he deserves. But there’s a lot of anti-lectin people out there—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: And it’s just like, to me, it’s a sales pitch. It’s probably gonna sell a lot of books coz it’s like, “Oh, my God! Plants are bad for you.” And then I had people emailing like, “I might as well just starve to death. I can’t eat this, I can’t eat that. I might as well starve to death.” And I just—I’m not a fan of any—I’m not a fan of promoting things that instill fear in people. I agree with your analogy. I miss your analogies, by the way. That was a good one.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That was a good one, right?

Evan Brand: Did you come up with that right on the spot?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Off-the-cuff, man. It’s how my brain thinks. If I can’t create that analogy, if I can’t wrap my head around it, I can’t expect, too, either.

Evan Brand: Well, that was a good one. And so back to my point. I don’t want to instill fear upon people. I agree with your—your strategy and your analogy. Lectins— sure, if you did beans and rice every day, maybe you could have some issues. But if you’re infection-free, your adrenals are healthy, you’re going to sleep on time, you’ve got good relationships, you like your job, you like your boss, you’ve got a great spouse, like you could probably do more lectins, more rice, more beans whatever. And maybe you could get away with it and feel okay.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. If it was in your 80-10 or 80-20 or 90-10, yeah, you know, it’s part of your 10 or 20, you probably would be okay, borrowing all the things you said.

Evan Brand: Yup. I’m sure we can ramble on about that point. That was a great question, though. Uh—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And then, also, too, certain foods and have more lectins. Of course, grains are going to be the bigger offender, right? And then you know, you have your legumes, right?  Your beans or lentils, but you know, just soaking them has a huge reduction in getting those lectins down. And even vegetables that do, just cooking them can have a huge effect on reducing some of them. So a lot of times, it’s not just the sheer amount. It’s well, how can you prepare to reduce those lectins as well.

Evan Brand: Yup. The pressure cooker for me has been a game changer for the rice.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And just the Paleo template or autoimmune template is a start. I think has probably the best effect at reducing most of those right there, off the bat.

Evan Brand: Yup. Tessa had a question. “My brother has celiac disease. Are probiotics a good idea in his case?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, you—you’d wanna really do a bunch of things, but would probiotics be a part of that plan? Yeah, absolutely. You do a six-hour protocol with this. You’d remove the bad foods. You replace enzymes, acids. You would repair the gut lining and the adrenals and the hormone systems. You remove the infections. You retest or you repopulate healthy probiotics, then you retest.

Evan Brand: Yeah, I agree. Celiac is quite a bit—celiac is the manifestation, but there’s probably 5-6-7 puzzle pieces that have to be laid out.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Evan Brand: Probiotics maybe 5% of the equation, it may be 15%, who knows until we—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And if you add in some good probiotics, like in my line Probio Flora or something like that. Would that be helpful?  Yes. But if he did it in conjunction with drinking his wheat beer and continuing to eat grains all day, it may be like using—it may be like using a beautiful golden nail on some rotten wood. It’s just like, “Argh, it’s not enough.”

Evan Brand: Right. You got to go deeper. Even the diet— we’ve had celiac clients and patients that come to us where even the diet is not enough because it got infections that are tearing apart that gut lining, creating that leaky gut situation and they’re reacting to everything. So even the Paleo or a gluten-free diet may not be enough. And usually it’s not. That’s why we do what we do.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Bingo. Love it, man. Hey, let’s chat again real soon. We got information coming up for our listeners. Have a great rest of the week, Evan.

Evan Brand: Take care. You guys, if you need to reach out, justinhealth.com evanbrand.com We are available.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And if you like the audio quality, guys, give us the thumbs up. We’re making some tweaks, we’re making some changes. Give us a share. Sharing is caring. We appreciate it. Leave a comment below. We wanna know what you think about. Give us feedback. You drive kinda what we want to talk about next and we’ll answer those questions to you, too.

Evan Brand: Yeah. Don’t be a lurker. Give us some comments. Your comments are our oxygen.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. I don’t want you creeping in those YouTube post. We want you out there kinda getting some good info. We appreciate it.

Evan Brand: Alright. Take care.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Evan, take care, man. Bye.






How to Address Toenail Fungus Naturally — Live Podcast #149

Dr. Justin Marchegiani and Evan Brand talk about toenail fungus in today’s podcast. Listen to them as they discuss some of  the effective and natural ways to address it and learn how factors such as sanitation, a compromised immune system and diet bring about this condition. In addition, know about the different tests involved in determining whether the fungus is a systemic or localized issue. 

Learn how to optimize vitamin D as they also discuss about sunscreen and sunlight exposure. Determine how one’s body reacts to sunlight exposure in terms of location and timing. And lastly, get some useful recommendations about the effective sunscreen brands that they use.

In this episode, we will cover:

Toenail Fungus

02:10   Toenail Fungus

03:46   Kombucha

05:54   Toenail Fungus: Topical and Compromised Immune System

10:48   Natural Ways To Address Toenail Fungus

11:42   Sunscreen and Sunlight Exposure







Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey, there it’s Dr. Justin. Evan, how are we doing today, man?
Evan Brand: Hey. Happy Monday. I almost, what day is it? But it’s Monday. So, happy Monday to you.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I know. It’s Monday already and the kiddo’s coming in three weeks. Can’t believe that. Really excited. You know, it’s like I’m cautiously optimistic. You know, I’m just like It’s gonna be great, but then, “Oh. Sleepless nights.” And, you know, I’m trying to get used to that having — having an extra person in the household and those stressors that come with it, good and bad. But on the overall, really, really excited and stoked.

Evan Brand: Good, man. Good. Even for us with the one-year old, you know, sleep can still be, can still be troublesome. Some nights, especially once the teeth start coming in. So, we’re hanging in there. We’re taking the adaptogens so—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. That’s good. And your wife’s staying at home too, so she’s able to have a little bit of extra time to allocate to that too, right?

Evan Brand: Exactly.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, same with my wife so, that’s a good plus — good check in the positive come. So, I’m really happy about that.

Evan Brand: Totally. Totally. Well, good. So, we’re gonna chat about toe nail fungus today, and I’m sure we’ll branch off into some other topics but, many people have this issue and many people have this issue chronically. They’ll go to their doctors or their podiatrists or wherever and they don’t really get good results. And sometimes they have to get on prescription drugs, like prescription antifungal drugs or they’re trying the Lamisil and all these other conventional alternatives that you see commercials for. And once again, we think there’s superior alternatives and superior solutions out we want to discuss with our audience today.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. And again, with the toenail fungus, I’m actually dealing with toenail fungus again. Last time I had it was eight years ago. Now my gut’s doing pretty good. Again, I keep carbohydrates and refined sugar down pretty well. I do have some fermented foods very single day but I keep the refined sugar and alcohol down. So, last time I had a little toenail fungus was about eight years ago. I treated it naturally with topical oil of oregano, and now it’s just coming back. And I’ve just started applying some emulsified oil of oregano. And again, in my Lyme, we used the GI Clear-5, and I’ll be combining that with my Herbal Nail Fungus Soak from Long Creek Herbs. So, we’ll be doing that as well. I know I had it gone another a week or two. Typically, what you see is, like within two weeks you start to see fresh growth coming out of the bottom of the nail. The nail that’s already been kind of disfigured with that, you know, slightly thickened yellowy hue kind of nail, kind of callus that’s forms on the top of the nail. That’s gone. You’re not gonna be able to reverse that. It’ll just grow out nice and fresh. So, I’m doing some of the topical oil of oregano, and I’m doing the soak as well. I’ll be starting the soak this week, but I have it all ready to go. I got the apple cider vinegar for it. The one without the mother. You want the cheaper version. And then, we’ll mix it in there and I’ll do a five-minute soak every night. But again, I haven’t had it for eight years. It slid back in. And again, my gut’s doing really good. I’m taking some probiotics right now. I’m doing a lot of Saccharomyces boulardii, the Saccharoflora. Hidden that apart. I feel that my gut’s doing well. I’m gonna do a stool test for the summer just to kind of see where I’m at, and just make sure I’m on top of it. But, sometimes, toenail fungus can come back for many reasons, right? We walk— I’m in— I’m in sandals all day, alright? So, I’m not wearing socks so there’s a potential, maybe, there’s some stuff brewing there. I’m walking ten miles a day on my treadmill. Maybe there’s a little bit of sweat inhabiting my sandals. Maybe I got to disinfect my sandals a few times a week…

Evan Brand: [laughs]

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …or likes I’m not wearing socks on it. So, that probably will be the reason that mine happens because I feel like my gut’s doing pretty good. Digestion’s good. Regularity’s good. I’m never bloated or gassy. So, again, we just want to fix what we find. Any thoughts, Evan?

Evan Brand: Yeah. So, let’s chat about all the things that could be going on, like internally…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: …with people. So, you mentioned your diet’s dialed-in. A lot of people, they’re still getting a lot of sugars though, even if you’re eating a good clean organic diet, you could still get exposed to a lot of sugars. So, if you’re doing a lot of sugars, if you’re doing like a brand of Kombucha, for example like— I won’t name drop but there’s a few…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, I’m gonna drop.

Evan Brand: Go ahead.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You got Cosmic, Buddha’s brew, uh — those are some big ones. My favorite ones I’ll tell you. Let’s put the focus on the positive.

Evan Brand: Okay.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: KeVita and GT Dave’s. Those are my…

Evan Brand: Yeah, GT Dave’s

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …two favorites that’s great. Actually, the Ginger. I like the Synergy. Those are like two grams of sugar per eight ounces. The KeVita’s even a little bit less because they use a tiny bit of Stevia in there. And they use a Basilisk and a Plantar strain where the GT Dave’s using a Saccharomyces strain.

Evan Brand: Uh— yep. Welcome Samuel. Thanks for joining us. Yeah, I mean, in terms of the Kombuchas, the reason I’ll bringing that up is because people just get crazy with them. Like, I’ve seen a lady before who is drinking like five Kombuchas a day and probably the very high sugar brands. So, who knows, it could have been like a hundred grams of sugar per day, which — that’s gonna be feeding a Candida overgrowth. So, even if your diet’s dialed-in— Yeah, I eat organic meats and veggies, but you drink tons of sugar in the form of a Kombucha. I mean, you’re really gonna offset that. We’ve also got infections too. So, if you’ve been on rounds of antibiotics, if you’ve got some type of yeast of fungus that’s growing up in your gut after the round of antibiotics, if you didn’t do probiotics at the same time, or if you didn’t do the right dosage, or maybe you went to whole foods and got a consumer-grade product, as opposed to buying a professional product like Justin’s or mine— You know, we use a much higher-grade formula. And so, even if you said, “Oh. I took antibiotics but I did probiotics.” If you just went and bought at the Whole Foods, it might not have been high enough quality to protect you, and you could still have some residual yeast and fungus in the gut. And you can test for this stuff, right? So, like we’ll run a stool test. Like you mentioned, you’re gonna do it on your own. Even though organic acids too. We, can see fungal markers. We can see yeast markers, bacterial overgrowth, all sorts of stuff that’s wrong. So, if it’s there, you know, our philosophy is, “Test; don’t guess.” And so, you can spend money on conventional, over-the-counter treatments. You and I will chat about some, you know, kind of a natural treatment as well, but we may have to take this battle to the gut.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and then— anytime we see toenail fungus, it could be two major things. It can be a compromised immune system kind of thing because the gut’s been overrun with Candida and maybe that Candida’s even gone more on the systemic side, right? Or, it could be just kind of a topical thing. Kind of maybe, you know, a locker room kind of effect. You’re walking around with a locker in a locker room without sandals on or something. Or, maybe my thing where I’m getting maybe a little too much sweat on my sandals and maybe that’s creating a breeding ground for mold or yeast. So, again, you know, sanitation, things like that are gonna be on the helpful side. So, I’m kind of like, get my sandals washed a few times a week, and good essential oils to kill stuff. So, I’m doing that. And then, obviously, sometimes the infections have to get treated topically, specific on that area, because you treat the gut but it’s got to make its way— a long way to the extremities to really get worked out. So, that’s a lot of basically lymphatic and blood flow that has to make its way there. And the question is: will the potency be there when it makes it to the ends and stays there. So, that’s where the topical piece is really important. Now, again, let’s talk about the three ways you can test for it. So, number one, you can do a gut test, but that a lot of times will just look at the gut Candida, like in a stool test that we may do.

Evan Brand: Right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We may look at a yeast. We may look at Candida, Microsporidium yeast. We may look at the Torula Candida. We may look at uhm—

Evan Brand: Is that Geotrichum one.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep. Yep. Exactly. So, these are all types of yeast. Then again, fungus is kind of like the big umbrella, and under that fungus umbrella will be different yeasts. And Candida’s a type of yeast. So, you just kind of keep that in mind. So, we have like the stool test looking at Candida. We have Candida that’s kind of be a test that’s more systemic, such as d-Arabinose. The d-Arabinose will be a test where the Arabino tick in the GPL test, right? The Great Plains Lab test, but typically, d-Arabinose will be an organic acid marker for Candida. And that’s gonna be more of a systemic marker. It’s making its way out the urine so it tends to mean that maybe the fungus is more systemic. And for the fungus to be in the toenail, that’s the topical thing, right? That is probably more of a systemic issue. So, d-Arabinose is important. And we see some people that have the Arabinose but don’t have it in the gut, and we see people that have it in the gut both don’t have it with the d-Arabinose. So, sometimes, with the organic acid test, it may correlate but sometimes it won’t, because the d-Arabinose is more of a systemic marker. And then we have the blood test markers for Candida. We have Candida antibodies IGG, IGA, IGM. And again, G is more of a long-term kind of antibody marker, and IGA and IGM is more of a short-term type of antibiotic marker— sorry. Our antibody marker. So, IGA, IGG, IGM, and ideally if IGA and M are high, it’s typically a more acute issue with the Candida, and your immune system is trying to attack. And, it means it’s more systemic.

Evan Brand: Got it. So, I had, yeast overgrowth when I got my stool test run a couple of years ago. It was back when I have bacterial infections, too, though. I had massive Candida. Luckily, my nails weren’t affected. I didn’t have those vertical ridges. And then also, we have a question too from Joseph. He said, “White dots on skin. He said he’s had it caused by fungus in the gut.” That’s kind of a vague question, but Justin, what’s your initial take?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I would say that sounds like tinea versicolor. Again, you can go into google image. I’m gonna do it right now. You put in tinea versicolor. You just have to know you’re gonna get the most severe form of it on google image. So, maybe you want. I’m gonna type in mild, mild tinea versicolor because you’ll get the most extreme thing that people skin’s like peeling off. But if you look on it, you’re gonna see some of those white dots or kind of like, reddish dots. It’s pretty clear on there. I got a couple right now. Yep. So, that’s more than likely what it is. That’s a tinea versicolor. And there’s some good soaks that you can do. I mean, you can do oil of oregano. So, I will take some GI Clear-5 and mix it in with a little bit of MCT. A couple drops of the GI Clear-5 and a little bit of MCT so it won’t burn, and you can rub it in topically. Where there’s some really good antifungal soaps that you can do and I have a couple on my Amazon page, once by a company called Purely Northwest and once by a company called Art Naturals. But if you go to justinhealth.com/shop and click on Just in Health Approved Products, and then click on the Amazon link. You have to see them in there, so I’ve used those over the years and I’ve found them to be very successful.

Evan Brand: Perfect. Perfect. Good. Uhm — so we chatted about the testing. You mentioned d-Arabinose. There’s tartaric acid on the O test.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep.

Evan Brand: And then we talked about oregano topically. Oregano can be used internally too. So, we’ll use Oregano with like a micro emulsified olive oil, which is super high-quality, super gentle. And, we chatted about diet, low sugar. Is there another angle we haven’t hit that we should hit?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. So, there’s a couple of schools of thought. So, number one, you know, lower sugar, especially with carbohydrates high. Carbohydrates, they can break down in the sugar because people think like, “Well, I’m eating whole foods, and they’re you know high in carb but there’s no refined sugar.” Right? We got to look on the label and you don’t see an added sugar, you think it’s okay. But, there may be a lot of carbohydrate in there that breaks down the sugar in the body. So, you have to look at the end by-product being sugar. Not necessarily they’re being refined sugar. Of course, refined sugar’s an issue. But sometimes, the carbohydrate threshold may be a little too high, and that may cause a conversion to sugar. So, keeping the carbs below 50 to 75 grams I think’s a pretty good rule of thumb. And when you start, the killing actually ramping some of the carbs up just a little bit because that can draw them out and create kind of a chumming-like effect. Like you’re gonna see great white sharks and go cave’s diving, right? It’s pretty lonely to go cave’s diving if there are no sharks there. But if you chum the water, you can get them to come to the surface. It’s kind of like that with the Candida. You can get them to come to the surface.

Evan Brand: Yep. Well said. Uhm — we have a question from Samuel about sunscreen. So, he said that he knows that our guest Jack Cruz doesn’t advise, but can that be damaging any brands that you recommend? I, personally, not use sunscreen at all this year. I’ve just been really smart about exposure, and I have a really cool straw hat that I wear that protects my head and my neck. I’ll show [crosstalk] it to you soon.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I love it. You’re going farmer style.

Evan Brand: I love it, dude. It’s so comfortable. It’s actually a fishing hat, so it’s cool to wear out on the boat because it gives a lot of coverage. But I’ve just being gradually increasing exposure, and then my wife and I take a few walks per day out in the sun, where we’ll get maybe 10 to 15 minutes. And I go without a shirt. And I’ve not burned but yet I’m still getting some good color and hopefully optimizing Vitamin D. So, I personally, rarely use sunscreen, unless I’m just like gonna be in a situation like I’m going to Florida and I’m gonna be on the beach in Florida, getting roasted then. I probably used it and I used the Badger. I used the— I think it’s just the Badger Regular Sunscreen. It’s the Zinc oxide by itself, with like Sunflower seed oil. It smells really good, but the Zinc works and it’s no chemicals.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, absolutely. And I disagree with Jack on the sunscreen thing. I think he thinks incorrect on that. I think uhm— don’t use sunscreen. Get your Minimal, your Erythema Dose M.E.D. That’s kind of where your skin gets a little bit pink. And again, for different people, that’s gonna be different things. Like for an African-American individual, that may be eight to ten hours out in the sun, virtually, you know, may be impossible to get. Unless it’s like harder than summer, and you’re in a low latitude area, like maybe, Austin or San Diego or Florida or something. Uh, for someone like me, you’ll have that maybe in the hot sun here today, 30 minutes, 15 minutes, right?

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, get that minimal erythema dose and then get the hat on, then get some of the sunscreen on, because you don’t want to burn, right? The UVA and B exposure — Once you’ve reached that minimal erythema dose is you’re destroying collagen, you’re destroying your skin. You’re creating oxidative stressors. No reason to do that. Now, the more melanin you have throughout that tan, or as Jack call it a solar callus, that solar callus will— is partly there because of melanin. And melanin’s a natural sunblock. That’s why an African-American individual, right? They have more melanin, that means more natural sunblock, right, because of where they evolved climate-wise over thousands of years. And, like, let’s say someone like me or you, probably a European, maybe middle to Northern climate, so less pigment in the skin. So, you have less natural sunblock. So, you get that minimal erythema dose, and then you cover up, get a hat on, and you get some natural sunscreen. I recommend skindeep.org— skindeep.org and they have some great recommendations. Again, I like the Marie Vornique— Marie Veronique is great. I love her sunscreen for the face, off-food based, really high-quality, lowest ratings on Skin Deep. Now, their brand called Mychelle is phenomenal. Kiss My Face has a descent one. Few of the other sunscreens that I report back that I use. Some that I bought a lot. So, I have some — I like the nice spray sunscreen that spray pretty thin. It’ll make you look like Casper the ghost.

Evan Brand: Yeah, it does.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s pretty bad, but it’s good. Good ingredients, but there’s some other ones that are a little better. The Mychelle one uhm— really like blends in. just beautiful. It’s one of the spray one that I’ll find here. One second as I upload it up. But anything you want to say there, Evan?

Evan Brand: Yes. So— I mean, about sunburns. I mean, my grandfather. He’s been dealing with various cases of skin cancers. And he, he used to get burned all the time. He did go to Florida and get burned, and now, he actually had a melanoma on his arm. And melanoma, that can kill your ass. So…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: …luckily, he found it early and it was the lowest level. So, it actually hadn’t penetrated. So, he’s okay. It didn’t affect the lymph or anything. And, he got it cut out. So, for me, with the history of Irish decent, super fair skin— I mean, I can brown, but to be susceptible and to see him deal with all the skin cancers…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. To work up

Evan Brand: …surgeries…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …the base first.

Evan Brand: Right. It’s — It’s not fun, to see have his arm cut open, and walk around with a bunch of stitches in his arm to get these cancers cut out. So, I also think I like the idea of our ancestors didn’t have sunscreen and such, but also, our ancestors didn’t have damage to the ozone layer. Right? With all the Hydrofluoric carbons and CFCs and all this stuff that’s damaged the ozone layer, we’re getting probably more, arguably more UV radiation exposure than we would have been prehistoric times, because the ozone layer is so damaged. So, to me, it’s like, it’s not a pristine solder environment anymore. So, I think the game’s changed.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Ii mean, but you know, our ancestors still have things like clothes, right? I mean, you know…

Evan Brand: Yep.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …they had hats, they had longer sleeve types of items plus, you know, they build up a solar callus, right? It’s — you build up that solar callus, you may be able to stay out there much, much longer. And, you know, frankly, ancestors— our ancestors didn’t have the ability to move around on the latitude levels as much as we do. Where, you know, let’s say you’re Irish descent, European descent, at a maybe a 38 to 42 on the latitude. Well, that’s a lot different now that you’re living maybe at 35 or 32, right? [crosstalk] So, we’re moving around a lot more so there’s the closed aspect, just using some gentle clothes to cover things up. But also, just building up that solar callus is very helpful. And you can just do it by adding a few minutes on each day, and not burning. I think it’s good, and just using a healthy sunscreen that’s gonna provide a lot of nourishment to the skin antioxidants but not any toxins either.

Evan Brand: Good. Did you find those brands? What were you gonna tell us?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. The other one that I liked is Goddess Garden. It’s excellent. Goddess Garden is great. We’ll try to put Amazon-affiliate links below, so if you guys like this information, you can support us at our Amazon-affiliate stores.

Evan Brand: Perfect. Yeah. they give like a couple pennies on the dollars. So, it doesn’t cost you extra to look at these products to Justin to link up, you can buy them directly.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, these are things that I’ve used personally and believed in. So, Goddess Garden, they’ve a sport one too. I like it cause just sprays the amount I bought. And I got my shirt off, I can just go [spray sound] and it’s done.

Evan Brand: I’ve seen that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Pretty easy.

Evan Brand: Yeah. I like that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Still works.

Evan Brand: Yeah. Before are you using— using like a 30, a 50, what’s kind of your approach to that?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Thir— I mean SPF things kind of uhm — it’s interesting, right? Because once you get to SPF 30— SPF stands for Sun Protection Factor, so once you get to a 30, you’re already at 95 percent reduction. Now, once you go from like 30 to 60, people would think, well, it’s double the protection. Well, you can’t really get double when you’re already at 95, right? You can’t go from 95 to 190, so it ends up going like, from 95 to like 98, right. So, it’s —you get a small, miniscule percent more. So, my opinion, you get the 30 and you just reapply every hour and a half to two hours.

Evan Brand: Okay. Okay, good. Back to the fungal piece, Mercola had an article about fungus, and he had mention that him just walking outside and getting lots of sun exposure so that UV exposure helped his toenail fungus. Like you and I were chatting about, that’s awesome. That’s a good strategy. Try to get the sun on your skin, right? It can help with I’ve seen Eczema get better with skin exposure. So, maybe toenail fungus could get better with sun exposure too, but the topical stuff’s great. So, definitely go for like the oregano oil, definitely go internal. Get your gut checked out. Make sure there’s no yeast overgrowth. And you should be in a good place. You should be able to reverse this.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, absolutely. So, regarding that, I think it’s gonna be slower if you’re doing it that way. There’s some places, some uhm — wanna say, periodontists— a podiatrist. Some podiatrist they have the laser thing and you put your toenails under. And that can help kill the — you know, kill the fungus in the toenails. Dermatologists do that too. I’ve seen the laser’s kind of iffy. Right? I mean there’s natural compounds that I mentioned. I like the emulsified oil of oregano, mine with the GI Clear-5 is a 75 percent Carbachol extract, that’s the active constituent. That’s very powerful. A lot aren’t that — many of them, that are out there in the market aren’t as powerful as that. So, I’m a big fan of that. Also, Vicks VapoRub has been around for a while as a natural cure for toenail fungus. So, Vicks VapoRub is great. I always just say treat it but then, you know, make sure the gut’s in good place. I’m still even treating the gut right now as well. I’m taking some internally, and I’m doing my GI Clear-6 and 1 along with it, just to make sure I’m getting my gut really cleaned out as well just so I end it from both ends. You kind of sandwich it. You go — you attack them from above and below.

Evan Brand: Perfect. We have one — one last question. There’s one question here that was kind of topic about Berberine and thrombosis. And then, there was another question here about natural treatments for warts on elbows and what’s the cause. What’s your take on warts? I will not consider myself a wart expert.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Really? You?

Evan Brand: Yeah. Are you?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’m shocked. Uhm— well, typically, warts, that’s gonna be a viral issue, right. That’s a papillomavirus. Again, there’s different papillo— there’s different kinds of viruses that can create this type of warts. Some like HPV can create kind of general or anal warts; not so fun. There’s some other viruses that manifest a couple things. You can get the immune system strengthened. High doses of Monolaurin, Vitamin C, Reishi mushroom, medicinal herbs can help. Topically, I use a specific serum called J-Bio Serum. I carry that on my online store. I like that as specific growth factors in stem cells that can attack it. I’ve seen some of these warts go away literally in just a few weeks. So, I’ve seen that personally. And then outside, I’ve just a conventional way of freezing it off. But you want to get the underlying immune issue under control, so…

Evan Brand: Right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: … the Immune Support, the Monolaurin, the Vitamin C, high-dose Vitamin D. You can even hit Silver up as well. It’s all gonna be great antiviral components that will help knock it down.

Evan Brand: Yeah. I had a Plantar Support on my foot when I was a kid. I was in martial arts class, and I think I picked it up just from the— from the floor being dirty.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep. Yep, that can happen too. And typically, if it’s like that. Your body will fight it off. I had one, maybe six or seven years ago. My fought it off in a month or two.

Evan Brand: That’s interesting.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I noticed that…

Evan Brand: I remember getting it…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …it’s gone.

Evan Brand: I remember getting it scooped out. That was not fun. I had like an acid band-aid. And it like burned the— burned the wart. And then, I went to the— I guess it was a foot doctor, and they scooped out the little roots of it. And then it was gone. I was like, maybe ten or 12.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow.

Evan Brand: I remember how brutal it felt though. That foot is a sensitive area.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It is, man. Absolutely.

Evan Brand: Robert was asking about warts on the elbows, so hopefully—hopefully that helps Robert. And look up Earth Clinic too. I’ve not looked it up, but Earth Clinic—they’ve typically got some good recommendations for things you could do. Apple cider vinegar pops up all the time on Earth clinic, so maybe that’s a remedy.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Acetic acid—acetic acid has a lot of antifungal effects. Getting your digestion better, right? The more foods that’s in your gut, that ferments, and rancidifies, and putrefies, that can put a stress on your intestinal tract for sure.

Evan Brand: Good. Good. So, uhm—the question about Berberine, do you feel like answering that or should we save that for another show? What’s you—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, so—what’s the question about? Berberines, thrombosis— Had this Berberine increase thrombosis chances. Uh—I’m concerned about some of the rumors on that topic. I’m not sure about that.

Evan Brand: I don’t—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’m not sure about thrombosis and Berberines. I can pull something up here just in a minute. I mean, that’s gonna be—thrombosis is gonna be like cladding in cladding of the circulatory system. So, will it increase cladding and obstruction of the vein’s flow? I would say – I would say no if we’re reducing inflammation…

Evan Brand: Yeah, I don’t see how.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …because if we can really reduce—if we can reduce inflammation, a lot of the inflammatory cytokines is what creates a lot of the cladding. So, couple things you can do to prevent that is number one, you can do systemic-based enzymes on an empty stomach, if you’re concerned. That will help break down any of the fibrin or any congestive compounds in there. Number two, you can use ginger, which is a natural anticoagulant, and will prevent things from just taking around. And then, number three, you can also do fish oil. Fish oil will also have uhm—really good effects on that as well.

Evan Brand: Yeah, I’m looking up here. The only counterindications I’ve seen for Berberine would be says avoid it during pregnancy for potential to cause uterine contractions and miscarriage, and then in geondes neonates because of its biliverdin displacement properties. But besides that, I don’t—I don’t see any way that that would cause an issue. Like you said…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I think—I mean, I think, anytime you’re systemically inflamed, there’s definitely a chance of things just flowing around very sluggishly throughout the circulatory, lymphatic and venous system So, that makes sense. So, I just think you just do things to reduce inflammation, and that’s why we don’t start a lot of the killing until one to two months in because we’re really working on reducing a lot of the inflammation during that time. And as part of why I build in to my protocols uh—the ginger tea. The ginger tea is very profound at helping to provide that anticoagulant environment and really reducing inflammation to keep things flowing well.

Evan Brand: Well said. Well said. We got a question from Jenette and then we’ll answer Dennis. Jenette said, “You mentioned upping Vitamin D. Can you get too much from the sun?” Probably not. You would probably never be able to get to a toxic level…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: No.

Evan Brand: …but supplement-wise…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It is a governor. You really won’t make more than 50 to 20 IUs in the sun. So, you kind of have a capacitor, a governor, on that. But yeah, I mean as fat-soluble vitamin, you don’t really want to go over a hundred, and if you go a little too high, it’s not the worst thing in the world. Just cut it out, and your body will start to break it down. And you’ll be okay. But, you know, keep it with the normal physiological levels. Fifty to 70’s ideal. Maybe if you have an autoimmune condition, go to a 70 to 100, and you’re gonna be in a pretty good place.

Evan Brand: Yeah. So, just get tested, Jenette, and make sure that they run the correct one. Some, like, conventional doctors, they’ll run, I believe it’s what, 1,25-Hydroxyvitamin-D. that’s not the correct one. That’s not the correct one, You want the 25-OH.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: If you want the Calcidiol, right? Vitamin D3 goes in the blood. It goes through the liver, and that spits out 25-Hydroxy D3. And then that then converts. That’s Calcidiol. Then goes through the kidney. And that’s active Vitamin D, which is Calcitriol, 1,25-Hydroxy. But you really want to look at the 25. That’s the better one.

Evan Brand: Okay. So, it’s like 25(OH) and that how it will show up on the lab.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Yep. 25(OH)/Vitamin D…

Evan Brand: Okay.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …or 25(OH)/D. Absolutely.

Evan Brand: Cool. Dennis had a question about coffee. Is coffee okay on a gluten-free diet? Justin, I believe you are a—are you a daily coffee drinker?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I enjoy coffee. I mean, I think there’s a lot of research on coffee being beneficial. Just choose high-quality, organic coffee. There’s a lot of antioxidants, a lot of alkaloids that are in there. I’m more concerned about ‘how often are you doing it’. Are you doing one to two cups in the morning? Fine. I think that’s okay. Are you doing it in the afternoon time, probably not so good because the half-life of caffeine’s about eight hours, that can disrupt your Cortisol rhythm. It’s gonna extract—or obstruct nighttime resting and that Cortisol going down when it should. Typically, if you’re gonna do coffee in the morning, add healthy fats, and with it, MCT, grass-fed butter or ghee. You can tolerate. That will time-release the caffeine, and create a nice little magic carpet caffeine ride.

Evan Brand: [laughs]

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, you get this time-release kind of effect, less stimulating. If you get that CYP gene, you may get very anxious afterwards because you have a hard time metabolizing it. And it hangs out in your system and you feel really irritable, not so good. If you have excess amounts of Vanilmandelate or Homovandelate going on, right? That’s more adrenaline, more dopamine that may create more anxiety. If you have severe Cortisol issues, you may feel worse.

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You know, there could be a Genetic SNP issue. It could be a Cortisol issue, but if you’re doing a little bit of caffeine in the morning, right? One or two cups and you add in some healthy fats, and at the time-release, I don’t have a problem with it, as long as the coffee is of high-quality.

Evan Brand: Yeah, and your cup is a real cup not a 32-ounce giant cup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I do like 12-16 ounces. But I also put about 16 grams of high-quality grass-fed Collagen in there. I have put about a tablespoon of grass-fed butter, and I put about a tablespoon of MCT oil. I get about 600 calories in my coffee. I get a ton of really good fat, which time-releases the caffeine. And I got a whole bunch of at—you know, protein and amino acids in there. And then, I get some really good alkaloids and antioxidants.

Evan Brand: Perfect. Perfect. Last question here. Robert, “Any idea why weightlifting worsens acid reflux symptoms?” I mean, that sounds like a Hiatal Hernia, but what do you think?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I mean, I wouldn’t even know the scenario. Are we talking like you eating within one or two hours and then you’re having acid reflux because you’re eating—because you’re working out? Maybe you’re working out and not giving enough time between your meals and then the exercise. So, people that have kind of a Gastroparesis thing happening, where their intestinal tract’s releasing the food a little bit slower from the stomach into the intestines. You may have to give it extra hour, adding some ginger can be a nice prokinetic. It will help stimulate that migrating motor complex that dumped that food from the stomach into the small intestine. So, it’s processing faster. If you’re having that issue, easiest thing is just workout first thing in the morning, and just have a nice clean protein shake first thing with water. So, you get instantaneous protein in the bloodstream within 30 minutes. Or, workout, you know, four to five hours after a meal and then have a nice shake, right, before, so you get those amino acids that aren’t gonna linger in the intestine’s because they’re already pre-broken down.

Evan Brand: So, Robert gave us a clarification. He said, “No eating and specifically happening with pull up type workouts.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Could be a Hiatal hernia issue. I mean, you’re probably activating those lats when you’re pulling up.

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And maybe that’s popping the rib cage and creating some tension on that cureon. It’s pulling that diaphragm up or tugging that stomach. So, here’s your diaphragm, right? And here’s your stomach, right? And it just—it pops up above it. Right? So, that top part, that fundus of the stomach is popping up. That uhm—esophageal sphincter’s popping u above it where the esophagus and the stomach meet. It’s just going just above.

Evan Brand: Yeah. So, what were you trying to do?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Now you could do this.

Evan Brand: What would you suggest?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …this thing whe you have your—your hands up and you swallow water, and then you drop back down on your heels while swallowing water. Like this. [jumps] And that can help. I know.

Evan Brand: [laughs]

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: A little funny, right?

Evan Brand: [laughs]

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: A bust to move. Psssh! Alright

Evan Brand: [laughs]

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, uhm—so, you can do that to help lower the esophagus, or you can go see a good chiropractor. Like, when I used to do this, I will creep right under the ribs, have the person take a deep breath in, [breathes in], made them stand their belly out. The intestines are moving down. The diaphragm’s moving down. I get my fingers up underneath that top part of the diaphragm [inhales]. And when they [exhales] breathe out again, [inhales] In. Out. [exhales] I pull down as they would breathe out. And that would just tug that—basically that diaphragm down, allowing the stomach to come down.

Evan Brand: And you can feel it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: Wow.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, Exactly.

Evan Brand: Cool. So, Robert, hope that helps.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Cool. So, any other issues on the toenail side?

Evan Brand: I think we hit it all, man. I think we’ll probably be repeating ourselves if we say—if we keep going. But I think we did pretty good. We hit the diaphragm. We hit the “Testing, not guessing.” We hit some of the treatment options and some of the supplements, so people can go to uh—your store, justinhealth.com. Check out some of those products. Robert gave us one last note. Let’s see what he said.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, just to add one thing. So, when I’m up underneath that diaphragm, I’m grabbing kind of the top part of the stomach, and I’m pulling that stomach down. Not the diaphragm down. So, like if here’s the diaphragm, I’m like sliding my fingers like right here, and I’m pulling down her. So, I’m trying to take the intestines that are up here, and pull them down. That’s the goal.

Evan Brand: Good. Uh—Robert, he gave us a little bit clarification. He said he had a GI X-ray and examination with the magnesium drink. They said, no sign of a hernia. Would they even detect a Hiatal hernia though, with the GI X-ray? I’m not sure if they would.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’m not sure. I think you may need a Barium. I think you may need a Barium Swallow test to detect that. But, in general, I would just uhm—just make some of the changes that we talked about, like get the stomach acid look at the infections, look at making sure that you’re digesting your food properly, and get the gut fixed first. And then see if that goes away. Because a lot of times, inflammation screws everything up. Right? You got a visceral somatic reflex connection with the nerves in the diaphragm and the stomach, affecting those nerves around it. And when there’s inflammation, those nerves get tight and things can contract and get pulled in different directions.

Evan Brand: I agree, thousand percent like you told me when I was having my gut issues. It was H. pylori.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: So, he could have some type of H. pylori infection that’s just creating inflammation. Am I not be a physical entry, like a Hiatal hernia at all. It could just be infection-related.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. [crosstalk] Totally.

Evan Brand: Cool. [crosstalk] Awesome.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Is there anything else you want to address, Evan?

Evan Brand: I think I’m done. What do you got?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, we hit all the toenail fungus things. It could be a systemic issue, it could be a localized issue. Okay. If it’s localized, Vicks VapoRub, tea tree oil and melaleuca, oil oregano, right? You could do the GI Clear-5. Topically hit it. You can do the Nail Fungus Soak in my store, the Long Creek Herbs one. That’s phenomenal, with apple cider vinegar. Right? That works great. The three test that we want to do: Organic Acids Dilactate—I’m sorry, d-Arabinitol. Dilactate’s another one for fungu—or bacterial issues. Dilactate, uhm—d-Arabinose via Organics, Candida antibodies, IGG, IGA, IGM, and then we can do Candida in the stool. There’s the GI Map, or we look at the doctor’s data or 401-H. We can look at Candida in the stool as well…

Evan Brand: Perfect.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …to help.

Evan Brand: That’s uh—That’s great. I hope it helps people. If you want to schedule consults, just go to justinhealth.com. You can check at my site, evanbrand.com. We’ve got hundreds with Justin and I. We have a combined total of over three hundred podcasts and three hundred videos at this point. So…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: If you guys were liking this, give us thumbs up right now. We’d love it. if you guys are on Facebook, give us some hearts. Give us some shares. We really appreciate it. We get motivated. We want to provide more content, and sometimes we’re so busy, we’re just—at the end of the day, we’re like, we’re tanked. But, we get those extra couple of thumbs up, we get motivated. Right, Evan?

Evan Brand: Exactly. That’s social. That social feedback is really helpful. So, give us thumbs up. And, we’ll see you again. If you have questions, send them in. Just use one of our contact pages and send us some topic ideas. If we haven’t addressed your concerns yet, we’ll do our best to cover it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it. Awesome, man.

Evan Brand: Take care.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Have a great day. Take care Facebook. And YouTube.




Goddess Garden


Marie Veronique



Sinus and ear infection solutions – Podcast #133

Dr. Justin Marchegiani and Evan Brand plunge into a discussion about ear and sinus infections and how nutrition either boosts our immune system or makes our bodies susceptible to infections. Be well informed about the products and natural solutions they have used in successful treatment of infections they have encountered with young ones and adult patients, too.

If you have kids, pregnant, breast feeding or planning to breast feed, listen very well and get loads of beneficial information regarding the importance of breast milk, high-quality and nutritious diet, as well as supplements for the mom that may affect the babies in relation to infections. Also, learn more about recent research in antibiotic use and its possible negative effects in our ability to fight off infections.


In this episode, we cover:

02:47      Ear Infections

06:23      Antibiotics and its side-effects

10:26      Nutrition and the importance of breast milk

13:22      Allergies

18:26      Natural Solutions & Product Recommendations








Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And we’re back. We’re live on YouTube and Facebook. Evan, how we doing today, man?

Evan Brand: Hey, what is going on? Good old technology.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I know. Excellent. I guess you got the memo. It’s the uh—blue polo day.

Evan Brand: Yes, sir. Happy Friday.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I love it.   A little—I got my Lulu lemon on. We gotta get them as the show sponsor of our clothes.

Evan Brand: I agree. That will be a great sponsor.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You gave me that idea the other day. So I like that. I’m gonna jump on board with it.

Evan Brand: Yes. So this idea we’re—we’re gonna discuss today, we’re gonna discuss some allergy issues, sinuses, ear infections, which a lot of this could apply to children, but adults, too. I mean this is something we deal with all the time, we hear about all the time.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.

Evan Brand: A lot of fear mongering all the time about ear infections and that’s one of the most common reasons that children are getting put on antibiotics. That’s like their first exposure to antibiotics as they get an ear infection. So we should dive in. This is gonna be fun.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. So if you’re listening on Facebook, I’m gonna pin down a link so you can access the video on YouTube live. Coz YouTube live is where we’re gonna have the back and forth until we get the Facebook setup. So Evan, how’s your day going, man? It’s Friday morning. I’m really excited.

Evan Brand: It’s great. I’ve got the window open. It’s gonna be 80° today, the birds are chirping, the grass is green and growing. I can’t complain.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I love it. Oh by the way, I have an awesome announcement for uh—just for me, and you, an the listeners. My wife and I will be expecting our first baby this fall. So we are super excited. It’s a boy, too, so—

Evan Brand: That is awesome.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hence why I’m wearing the blue today. The baby blues.

Evan Brand: Love it, man. Congrats.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Thank you. Excellent. Well, what did you have for breakfast, Evan ?

Evan Brand: Did I eat today? Yeah. I ate. I had bison jerky and some matcha tea.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Matcha. Love it.

Evan Brand: That was it. Actually, I just finished out the Matcha and now I’ve got some vitamin C here. I’m drinking about 3 g of vitamin C with some good clean water and that’s it. I was gonna do some berries this morning. My wife got some blackberries yesterday but I decided against it. Just went with the bison jerky, so I’m probably in a slightly ketotic state right now, which I feel pretty good and my brain is working.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s excellent, man. Very, very good.

Evan Brand: How about you?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Today I had some high-quality coffee with some butter and some MCT. I put about 10 or 20 g of collagen in it. And after the podcast today, I’m gonna make a nice little uh— green drink. Add a little MCT to that. You know, some fresh organic, green vegetables, maybe a little carrot to sweeten it up. And add some more collagen onto that just so I have some good fats and good protein and some good uh—micronutrients. So really, really excited there.

Evan Brand: Sound good, man. Sounds good.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, let’s dig in. We talked about yesterday, kinda in our—pre set up for the podcast about talking about sinus and ear infections. The natural solutions we can do to help address sinus and ear infections. So what do you think about that?

Evan Brand: Totally. Yeah. Let’s hit it. Like I mentioned in the beginning. Ear infections are gonna be the common reason that kids and children are gonna be put on antibiotics. A lot of times, ear infections are preventable which we can talk about because food allergies are gonna be one of the most common causes that you can modify. And so, we can talk about the influence of dairy, your sugar, your fruit juices, your grains, your gluten, your sodas. I mean all these things are impacting your immune system that can set you up for potential ear infections. And honestly, a lot of children that you and I work with, likely have tubes put in because the doctor fear mongers them and there’s actually no evidence that ear tubes actually even work that much. Mercola has got a great of studies about this showing that, in the short term, the ear tubes, they get put in, can reduce the time with the middle ear infection. But it in the long term, there is no longer benefit of tubes. And so, you know, when I quote one of the studies here, “The said tubes and watchful waiting does not differ in terms of language, cognitive, or academic outcomes.” Basically they don’t do much. And a lot of times—what about the adenoids, too. I mean a lot of people get their adenoid removed for these things. That seems a bit extreme.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And I can speak from personal experience because I tubes many, many times. I had chronic ear infection that the child. Now here’s kinda the vicious cycle, right? Because we talked about—And we’ll put here, we have some really good studies that we’re gonna put down below. Looking at the microbiome connection. That’s kinda the gut microbiota and its connection with healthy ears, right? Healthy ear, flora health, right? So if we have ear infections, because of other reason which we’ll go into, and then we start taking antibiotics for those ear infections, that then disrupts the microflora. And that creates further imbalance that will perpetuate more and more frequent ear infections down the road. So you see the vicious cycle that conventional medicine really throws down is they’re not addressing the root cause of why these things happen in the first place. And then they give medication that actually works to treat the symptoms in the short run. But then actually perpetuate a need for more of that intervention and more of these problems. And then I can’t tell you how many patients— patients that I see that have been on more antibiotics throughout their life tend to be sicker and have—they’re the hardest to work with because of chronic gut infections, chronic gut inflammation and extreme food sensitivity because their gut microflora is so screwed up. So we really want to mitigate the use of antibiotics only to like absolutely must-haves. Now, if I go back in time and look at the things that drove me to have all the ear infections, gluten and dairy was huge. And part of the being reason why is I think that it affects the microflora, it creates more of an inflammatory environment but it also is gonna affect lympha—lymphatics. Coz I remember my ears always feeling like there was crap in it. Like I would like go swab it when I was younger and there’s gonna be so much junk in it. And my ears always felt full. So I do believe the research show some lymphatic increases when these inflammatory foods are there. So to live with all this fluid that interplay between the tissue and the blood, and the more sluggish that is, right? The more viscous that gets, that can create the ability for these—for that stuff to hang out longer and potentially perpetuate uh— infections. So making sure those foods are out. Go ahead, Evan.

Evan Brand: Yeah. So before we get into the functional approach to all of this, you know, we should talk about some of the side effects. So you mention what happens with antibiotics and now there is research that shows that antibiotics cause permanent damage to the DNA. So this is not something benign where you’re on the antibiotic for 4 or 6 or 8 weeks or even like a 7-day pack. This is lifetime impact. And I think we should probably add the question to our intake form when we’re working with our new clients. How many rounds of antibiotics have you—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Already on my intake form.

Evan Brand: Over—over your lifetime, though. I mean, yeah, a lot of times I’ve had people people would not even have a count because it could be in the dozens of times. I uh— typically like every 2 to 3 years, like what’s the last two to three year history of antibiotics? But I feel like we should almost say over the life, how many have you had?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I have that exact question on mind. I have one patient like a month or two ago, they said between 0 and 5 years of age, they had 120 antibiotic prescriptions.

Evan Brand: Oh my god.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Like you gotta be kidding me.

Evan Brand: That’s—that’s. I mean they are passed out like they are

Skittles, which is unfortunate now. Now, let’s talk about side effects. I mean if you are getting tubes, for example, then you could potentially have hearing loss from that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.

Evan Brand: I’ve read about some cases of hearing loss, you’ve got calcification of the tissue in the middle ear, and then also getting the, adenoids removed which I don’t know why, but the they—they always tell, “let’s go ahead, remove your adenoids, too as we put in these tubes.” And then—I mean, you’ve got risk of hemorrhage, you’ve got bleeding issues, you’ve got potential infection sites that could pop out where you got the surgery removed. I mean, it’s just crazy. My wife when she was a nanny down in Austin, the kids that she was a nanny for, everyday, literally if the kids were fussy, the mom would say, “Hey, if ever they get fuzzy, just give them Ibuprofen or Tylenol and Motrin—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Terrible.

Evan Brand: Or give them– And just because they’re fussy. And a lot of times, she said, “I would try to not give them the dose. I would act like I’m dozing them the medication.” But my wife knew what it was doing to their guts. And, of course, these kids get sick, they get up on antibiotics then both kids had tubes, then both kids had their adenoid surgery. It’s just crazy. So, yeah. Let’s talk about diet. I mean you hit on gluten and dairy, food intolerance is gonna be huge, and also, for me a big one is gonna be—which if you’re an adult now, it’s too late. But whether you were breastfed, or whether you are formula-fed because breast milk is like the most ultimate super food ever.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. So you hit a couple of things that I wanna backtrack on for the listeners. You mentioned the adenoids. And the adenoids and the tonsils are the first vessel for the lymphatic system to come in contact with—with our environment. So the adenoids are kinda like in the upper sinus back area, where the tonsils are in the back of the throat. So it’s like tonsils – adenoids. And they’re that first— first vessel for the lymphatic system. And that lymph is designed—think of it as like the fit—the air filter in your house, or the filter in your pool. It’s really designed to pull out a lot of that crud. Now the thing is, if we’re constantly driving a ton of inflammation, and a ton of crud’s going in there, it’s like getting a smoker in your house. What’s your air filter gonna look like in a couple of weeks? couple of month? It’s gonna be black. Now what’s gonna happen when that air filter gets so clogged that the pressure is increasing and now the HVAC and the heater has to work so hard now the heater is heating up, i.e. were having infections, right? Well, guess what conventional medicine would do? They would say, “Let’s just pull out the air filter and put a new one.” Right? But in—in the real world, example, right? When you pull the tonsils out and the adenoids out it’s gone. You don’t put a new one in, right? So it’s like, “Let’s just pull out the air filter and leave nothing there.” Because now nothing get’s clogged, right? But holistically and functional medicine-wise we say, “Hey! You’re smoking at my house, get the hell out, right? You’re clogging out my filter! Get out of here! Right? That’s kind of the solution. Now the smoke is coming from the smoker in your house but in a real world example, it’s coming from a lot of the foods—uh— especially refined sugar, it’s coming from refined dairy, it’s coming from gluten, of course, and obviously getting, you know, lack of breast milk is going to be huge. I did not get a chance to have breast milk that long as a child, alright? Did not. Only a couple of weeks. It’s kind of like that thing I really wish I could go back in time, and like, “Mom you need to breast-feed me longer.” She said, “Look I didn’t want it, whatever.” I’m a baby. I didn’t know any better. C’mon. But in general, that’s what I would’ve wanted to have happen. But the breast milk is a big thing, right? Having that breast milk, for at least that for six months minimum a year, World Health Organization says, 18 months. I try to at least get all my patients to do a year. That’s super, super important for starting the cascade of good microbiome health and thus, affecting the ear, too.

Evan Brand: Yeah. Now if you’re an adult and like myself, too, I was formula fed for most of my baby years. I mean there’s nothing we can do now but to work forwards. So this is involved – this is getting the testing run now. So if you’re an adult, and you’ve had ear infections, or you had your tubes in, or you had the adenoids removed, well, you—you gotta get yourself tested because 9 out of every 10 clients that we test, we’re gonna find some type of issue in the gut. And this is bacterial in nature, which could be for previous antibiotic use. This is yeast so we’re talking, Candida mainly, we’re looking for albicans and SPT—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Evan Brand: Although there is about 20 different species of Candida. And then we’re looking for parasites, too, because anything that’s gonna damage the gut barrier, can also leave you susceptible to ear infections, sinus problems, any type of allergies. Because your gut is basically the foundation. So, you don’t necessarily have to go straight to the ear which we’re gonna talk about some ear treatments that you can do to fix your infections and these problems. But a lot of times, do you agree this has to start in the gut. We’ve gotta make sure that you’ve got a healthy gut, and a healthy blood brain barrier, and a healthy—uh – basically a sealed-up gut, for lack of a better term.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. It all starts in the gut, it all starts with the food. Now, I see people, I seen parents online and I—I jump on there, and they’re like complaining about their kid’s ear infection and I’m just like, “Alright, I’ll be a good Samaritan doctor.” I’ll be like, “Hey! Do this, do that, and it’s always ignored.” Like, I look at all the likes and the comments, people are like “Oh! Poor thing! Get this done! Get antibiotics!” And then my comment that actually addresses a solution goes like, unanswered, kind of ignored because it actually involves making some changes. So, people— I think people are getting the idea that the conventional solutions for these things aren’t working and are creating more problems. But uhm—you know, it’s definitely some extra effort that you have to do, but in the end, I remember of having tubes and chronic ear infections for so long up into my— even early teens. It was terrible, I was miserable! Now I didn’t get a lot of the sinus stuff, my brother got a lot of the sinuses. But in my opinion, whether its ears or sinuses, it’s just the weak link in the chain. The same mechanism that’s affecting the sinus issues is the same thing that’s affecting the ear issues.

Evan Brand: Yup. Well said.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: What about allergies too? I mean you and I talk a lot about the stress bucket, and so what you and I were talking about before we went live is, how many people have allergies? And it’s almost per trade, is it’s a “normal thing”, but I always tell people just because something is common, like saying ear infection or sinus issues or allergies that doesn’t mean that it’s normal. And you’ve got these Claritin commercials and you’ve got these other pharmaceutical drugs to get on TV, and they make it seem like everybody needs—everybody needs that, everybody has allergies. The outdoors, it—it’s just a crazy environment, there’s grass, and trees, and flowers and oh my god, you’re not meant to live outdoors. You’re meant to live in your little bubble, and anytime you go outdoor, well, you need our pharmaceutical protection. And that’s just crazy. If you do have environmental allergies, there’s likely some deeper stuff going on. That could be adrenal related, it could be gut related, the yeast, the bacteria, the parasites. It could be detox problems, if you got sluggish liver, if you’re not digesting your foods well, if you’ve got food sensitivities, so you’ve not remove the gluten and the dairy from the diet, that stress bucket’s full. Then you go outside and then you do get allergies which gives you the sinus problems and maybe that gets worse and worse and turns into some type of ear problem. We have a question, from—let’s see—Genesis, on here, he said, “Why do my ears ache when it’s windy?” What’s your take on that? To me, I would just say go you get your gut check. But I’m not sure why that would happen.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, that’s kind of—that’s kind of vague—uhm—typically, the more inflamed certain parts of the body are, the more sensitive to certain things it will be. Like if I have from chronically inflamed to shifting my manual car may create some elbow inflammation. Now, is the shifting of the car really the problem? No. It’s the roomful of gasoline or the roomful of gas fumes and it’s that small little match that— that burns down the house. Even though the match went off, it’s with the inflammatory environment of all the gas fumes that are hanging out. That’s the issue. So I was always look at the underlying inflammatory environment that’s setting up the milieu to then when that spark goes off to create that issue. And that spark essentially being the wind there.

Evan Brand: Yup. Well said. I wanna go back to not just making it an anti-antibiotic podcast but I do want to mention the fact that—that even the US Center for Disease Control and Prevention they write that ear infections will often get better on their own without antibiotic treatment. Taking antibiotics when they’re not needed is harmful. Un— unwanted side effects like diarrhea, rashes, nausea stomach pain, more serious side effects can occur.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Evan Brand: Which can include life-threatening allergic reactions, kidney toxicity, severe skin reactions. And each time your child takes antibiotic, the bacteria that live in the body ,skin, mouth, intestine. And now we know that there’s a microbiome of the ear. Isn’t that crazy?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s crazy. The microbiome of the ear. Everywhere. I mean vaginal canal, gut, everything. It’s all—It’s interconnected, for sure. So also, couple of side effects with the antibiotics that we really need to talk about is the mitochondria.

Mitochondria are like these little power houses of the cell that generate ATP which is the currency of energy in which our body functions. And that’s so important for optimal energy. I mean, Dave Asprey has got a book coming out or it’s coming up very soon. He’ll be here in Austin next week. And its called, Head Strong and it’s all about basically improving your mitochondria. And your mitochondria is so important. Just google “mitochondria and antibiotics” you’ll see a strong connection. We put some of these links in previous podcasts. I’ll let the viewers do your homework. I will post a reference section on the bottom. Antibiotics and mitochondria, you’ll find significant disruption of the mitochondria with antibiotics. And obviously, it’s dose-dependent, right? The more you do it, the more you use it, the potential that increase has to happen. So that’s another mechanism. Now, we can talk about some solutions. Any thing else you want to address, Evan, before we actually dig in with some solutions?

Evan Brand: Sure. I’d like to just pile on top of the mitochondrial thing you mentioned. You know, a lot of clients come to us with brain fog and chronic fatigue as well as a starting place and maybe they’ve had these type of infections but they’ve also got chronic fatigue. And you’ve just brought the word “mitochondria” so it sounds like to me, we could infer based on someone’s use and history of antibiotics that we can infer. Well, here’s a root cause of chronic fatigue is the mitochondria that’s been damaged from antibiotics. So that’s really gonna make us have to do a lot more work on supporting mitochondrial health, but then getting the gut back in check, too.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. And also, cortisol. I mean if—if we’re bringing babies into this world that are adrenally-depleted, again, this is kind of weird but if a woman is stressed, especially that during pregnancy, you can put on certain you can activate certain epigenetics that will start exacerbating or stimulating that babies adrenal in the third trimester. And the more stressed that mom is throughout pregnancy, you’re activating certain epigenetics, but also in the third trimester, gonna be stimulating the babies adrenal glands. So if you bring a baby into this world with a lot of adrenal dysfunction, off the bat, they may have an inability to regulate inflammation in general coz they’re not spitting out enough cortisol. Now we don’t ever want to treat a baby directly, you know, supplement-wise. We would do it by getting the mom really healthy. Uhm—the only thing I recommend to a child, probably off the bat, if they’re having issues, is probiotics. And then we could talk about maybe some homeopathic drops, or some natural solution to be put in the ear topically uh—to hit the area very focused versus do a systemic kind of atom bomb dropped.

Evan Brand: Yeah. Well said. I thought that was crazy 3-4 years ago when I heard the fact that you can basically steal your—your baby your fetus’ adrenal glands. This is why some women report feeling so good during pregnancy and some of it could be that they’re deriving some of their boost from the adrenals of the baby and then you give birth. Now instead of having four adrenals that your thriving energy from, you got two adrenals just—you’re driving energy from. And some women have kind of that postpartum either Hashimoto’s or some type of postpartum depression. So yeah, that’s a trip. There was a question here, “Can your sinuses get clogged for years?” I mean I would say, “Absolutely!” What do you think? If you’ve got these uhm— food allergies in your diet for years and yeah, you could stay clogged up all the time.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Absolutely. So that congestion can happen. Now we also have to look at physical structure issues, especially in the nasal area. So being a chiropractic doc, you really want to make sure that you are well-adjusted like make sure you at least see a good chiropractor once a month and make sure your cervical spine and everything is doing well, number one. Number two, you may have some turbinate issues with these bones up here in the spine. You may need a technique called “nasal specific” where they put these balloons up and they can help declog any of these turbinate issues whether from trauma or malformation. And again, Weston A. Price talks about poor nutrition. One of the things that happens is narrowing of the middle third with this area— here is broken into a third – a third – and a third. And the more nutritionally-deficient the parent was that brought you into this world, this middle third starts to narrow. So one of the biggest signs of gluten sensitivity and poor nutrition is a narrowing middle third and a very large upper thirds. So when you see people walking down the street with that big forehead and you see that smaller middle third, with that smaller lower third, gluten deficiency, poor nutrition of the parents, big time, off the bat. So again, some of this we can’t really change, right? Like the parent stuff, that’s all epigenetic stuff. But we can at least be aware that we’re bringing kids and babies into the world, right? We got to get the nutrition dialed in. That’s number one. Number two, uhm—chiropractic’s helpful on the spine as well as the nasal canal and nasal specific. And also, acutely, chiropractic can be great for the—uhm— for the canal of the child. The person with the ear issue. Now when you’re younger, the ear canal tends to be more parallel, right? So it won’t drain as well. You have that—that draining angles. So one of the things that some chiropractors will do is, pull my ear front out, they’ll do a specific adjustment where they rotate the ear, they pull it, they rotate it in clockwise and they tug. And that tug kinda opens up the uhm—the nasal canal and will allow some of that junk to drain. Now, is that root cause? No. Is it palliative without any— without very little side effects and no— not affecting the microbiome and inflammation? Yes. So it’s a really good from a palliative perspective. Again, spine, really good. Nasal really good and then the ear adjustment, that’s the next really good step.

Evan Brand: That’s great. Now what happened with my wife, I believe, I don’t know if we were swimming in the ocean, or where we were, but she came home and her ear which is clogged. And we thought, “Man, this is gonna turn into an ear infection.” Coz she had this water that was just in her ear for like a week. And I said, “Justin, what do I do?” And you said, “Evan, you’ve gotta go get these—these eardrops. Do you remember that?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Yup.

Evan Brand: And—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That was the Citricidal Eardrops. Those are great. Little bit of grapefruit seed extract in there. Those eardrops are phenomenal. Also, men, Hydrogen Peroxide, 3% it’s like two dollars at your uhm— drugstore. Just a little cap for that, it will bubble like crazy. Leave it in there till the bubbling stops and then you can dump it out. That was my go-to ear infection. I was waterskiing on Lake Traverse two years ago and I took a header. And I perforated this eardrum and uh—whole bunch of you know, bacteria and crap from the lake got in there. And one of the things I did was hydrogen peroxide and I diluted with a little bit of silver. So hydrogen peroxide – silver. That way, I could just clear that crap right out.

Evan Brand: That’s amazing. Now when-when you did that to your eardrum, was there any other bad side effects? What happened?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Just the side effects of a perforated eardrum. It’s irritated, it’s inflamed. Uhm— when you have an ear issue, man, it screws everything up because just sounds that come in are just like balance, just you’re over hyped up. So everything is irritating and kinda bother you. That my wife just leave me alone for a few days but then we just gonna do all the good things that help with the inflammation and all the good healing nutrients. I use the uh—the Similasan’s. Similasan’s, they have a really good homeopathic eardrop that we used. I use the Citricidal eardrops. I use some silver and I used some hydrogen peroxide and I kinda just rotated those. And growing up, hydrogen peroxide was absolutely phenomenal for the ear coz it’s just so cheap and it’s great. And actually that’s a natural—uhm— flu or cold kind of cure because they say a lot of ways that viruses kinda vector into your body is through the ear. So just doing like a little capful of that 3% hydrogen peroxide, it can really knock out potentially any viruses or bacteria making their way into the body.

Evan Brand: I think I told you when I met with one of the—the higher-ups at designs for health, which is a professional healthcare company if people are listening. I met with one of the higher-ups and he said he travels like 250 days a year. He’s always concerned about picking up sinus infections or ear infections from being on airplanes all the time. And one of his preventative measures was he was taking the silver in a spray bottle and he would spray his ear canals.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Evan Brand: Then he would spray his nose, right? You know, kind of like a barrier protection around his holes of his— his nostrils in his ears. And the guy never got sick, so—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I love it. Totally make sense. So, off the bat, we kinda have the preventative stuff with the mom to baby, and stress in the adrenals. Obviously, try to have a vaginal birth. It’s gonna be essential because the activation of the bacteria in the vaginal canal and how that affects the child’s immune system. Number two, if you can’t get, for some reason, emergency happens where the cord gets wrapped around the child, the child’s oxygen levels drop and you have to have a C-section or the baby’s breach, number one, see a chiropractor beforehand. Get Webster technique to get that baby to go headfirst. But let’s say you can prevent that. Number two, go in there, and again, the doctor and the midwife probably won’t do this. So you have to get in there, get in there with a good swab. Swab your wife’s vagina area and then afterwards, when that baby comes out, you swab the baby with it because the baby would be getting exposed to that, anyway and now it’s not. So do a good swab, put it in like a little baggie and then after the C-section, then you— when you’re doing skin-to-skin, have that baby all swabbed on. Now don’t tell the— the doctor or nurse what you’re doing coz they’re probably look at you like 10 heads. And this is—you know, I told my OB about this ahead of time, she’s like, “Oh, well, you know, you can do that, but just keep it to yourself. We don’t have a problem with it, but you just keep it to yourself.” So that’s what we’re doing if that does happen. So have a back up plan, ideally.

Evan Brand: Totally. And why? Why—why would they— why is it have to be so hush-hush, I don’t understand what the deal is?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, it’s – in conventional medicine, there’s a conveyor belt man. Like here is what you do, here’s the cookbook, great. 1-2-3-4-5. And anytime you put a kink in that step, or something that disrupts that flow, you know, everyone perks up and it’s like, “What—What’s happening?” You know. So the more you can just lull them to keep that procedure going uh—it’s ideal.

Evan Brand: Makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. I had a client who—I’m trying to—who it was—it was either yesterday or the day before and she actually went to her conventional doctors to show the lab test, the organic acids test and he’s like, “This isn’t even a valid test. I’ve never heard of this before.” It’s like just coz you never heard of organic acids testing, doesn’t mean it’s not valid. You try to say that uh—instead of the herbs that were gonna use for Candida that she should just be using a Diflucan and— which is a prescription which is just unnecessary, so—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: There can be a lot of side effects with Diflucan. I tried it before the—with the uh— with the fungal infection in the past. Coz I just was trying all these different things and one of the side effects I found was lightheadedness. That drug cause a ton of lightheadedness, insane.

Evan Brand: That’s scary.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And there’s some research that it can cause neurological problems, too. So I mean, some people it may not be a bad thing, uhm— if you’re combining it with herbs and everything else and it’s just a part of the program, but just as like a, “Hey, you know, don’t change your diet, don’t do anything else, just take this.” —probably not gonna be the best long-term solution.

Evan Brand: Yup. So I think—I think we —we’ve we kinda jumped around. We jumped into some—some solutions and side effects and all that’s— I mean really diets can be first step, getting a nutrition plan in place it’s gonna be more like a Paleo or autoimmune paleo diet, potentially getting rid of your grains, your sugars, of course your sodas, your juices gotta go, pasteurized dairy—it’s gotta go. I remember for me, with my skin, you were like, “Evan, even though it’s organic grass-fed cheese, you still gotta cut it out.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Your skin look so much better compared to last year.

Evan Brand: I know. So I had to get rid of it, even though I miss it and it was delicious. I rather feel good and, you know, have— have better skin. So you’ve got a get out the— the dairy except for butter. Sometimes you can do okay with butter and the wheat. I mean we talked about that but any type of gluten issues you’re gonna be creating the intestinal permeability. Even if you don’t have celiac, doesn’t matter. The gluten is still gonna affect the gut which is therefore going to make you more susceptible to ear infections and allergies and sinus problems. Uhm— secondhand smoke, we talked— you talked about that a little bit, that analogy. But yes, uhm— there is research that secondhand smoke also increases the risk of ear infections for children. So if you’re going over to a family’s house or someone in the family smokes—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: And then when you hold the baby, uhm— don’t let them do that. Also, if you are gonna bottle feed for some reason, apparently, bottle-feeding while lying down increases your risk of ear infections. That’s something that I just learned this morning with some research, but it makes sense.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Also, the quality of the food that the mom eats has a huge effect on the baby, okay. I’ll give you an example, alright? My neighbor —her child had a really difficult time sleeping continuously, up every half-hour. The big thing that they did is they pulled out eggs, and it was one nightshade family made up of eggs and tomatoes. And that one tweak, change the composition of the breast milk and the baby slept like just magic. So quality of breast milk is incredibly important and is dependent upon what the mom eats. So if you’re having issues with your child off the bat, even if it’s just sleep or ears, get your diet super, super clean. Super, super clean. Just because you’re feeding a baby or growing the baby, it’s not a license to eat whatever the heck you want. Nutrient density is incredibly important. With my wife being pregnant, we— we’re doing lots of things to increase nutrient density. She gets exposure to a little bit of liver everyday. Uhm— she does a green smoothie with organic vegetables in the morning, we mix in some MCT oil there. We do some collagen. She gets some Pasteur-fed eggs and Pasteur-fed bacon from time to time. And she’s eating 3 solid meals a day. And then get one good, healthy, organic shake in there. And really mitigating stress, and some probiotics and some magnesium to keep the bowel moving. So when you get pregnant with the hCg and all that stress down, it can create some issues with regularity. So that’s — I don’t wanna go too much on that, that’s a separate podcast. But, you know, we could just— we could do a podcast marathon and be here for 8 hours—I think, it allows us to do 8-hour straight, so we should uh—we should push that one time.

Evan Brand: We could. We could to a marathon.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Evan Brand: So we—we hit on the—the eardrops, there’s garlic eardrops, too that I’ve read about. I’ve personally not use those. I’ve only used the uh— grape seed extract. Also, breast milk for eardrops. If you have a small little dropper, you can use breast milk for your drops, And it’s gonna be safer, less expensive, far better than antibiotics. Also, I don’t know if read about this, but coconut oil eardrops apparently exist, where basically I mean, all I would—I wouldn’t buy a specific drop, I would just take a load of the coconut, heat it up a bit, and then put into a container.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly.

Evan Brand: You’re gonna get the caprylic acid in there. Which is probably gonna be the best thing. What else you—you got capric acid in there, or two that maybe gonna acts as a natural antimicrobial.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. So let’s kinda go through some of the sinus stuff. So, off the bat, with the sinus, you can do Xlear, too, which is great. Xylitol which is an anti-biofilm kinda type of sugar alcohol and it also has an effect of being antibacterial. So that’s excellent.

Evan Brand: What is it called?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Xlear or X-Y-L-E-A-R. We’ll put links below the video and in the transcription, we’ll put some amazon product links, too. So if you guys wanna support us, you can get some of the things that we’re talking about through our affiliate links.

Evan Brand: Perfect.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And these are things that I usually that I bought and used, too. Anything we talk about and recommend are things that I have personally done myself or have seen my patients do it with great success. So what you’ll read, though—we’re all about clincial results first. So Xlear is great, or Xylear, however you pronounce that. Next is gonna be—Dave Asprey’s got a good bulletproof sinus rinse which is really good. You got a big salad bowl. We’ll put the link for this, too. You put a whole bunch of—just gently warm water in there. You do about a quarter of a teaspoon of some high-quality salt—sea salt in there. And a couple of drops iodine for the most part. And then you’re gonna dip your head upside down, and then you’re gonna breathe or you’re gonna suck that in to the nose. Keep your mouth out of the water, of course. Suck it in to the nose. So it will kinda feel like you’re drowning, not the nicest feeling, uhm—but that will be really, really helpful. So half a teaspoon of high quality sea salt for every cup of water. That will prevent bacterial overgrowth. You can add a little bit of iodine in or a little bit of Xylitol. So basically, you’re gonna do the whole little dippy bird, a little—tip—tip your head back. Don’t tilt your head back or you’ll gag. So keep your spine parallel to the floor and then you’re gonna breathe in to the nose. And I will put the protocol down below. So blink your eyes a few times. The iodine will sterilize the lining of your eyes if you get it in your eye. So be careful with the iodine in your eyes and that will significantly help clear out. And I will put protocol down below as well. Next, you can do a Nasaline, as well. And I’ll do the Nasaline with the Neti Xlear or the NetiXlear, which is potassium biocarbs, some salt and uh—Xylitol, and a little bit of uh—I think that’s pretty much it. And it goes into the solution, and then you can pump it through with a Nasaline which is basically a plunger for your nose. So a Neti Pot’s one thing but you just pour it and it’s gravity that goes through. The Nasaline, it goes through in one nostril and it’s a plunger where you push it. So you get full contact of the sinus canal and then will go through and rinse that everything with full contact.

Evan Brand: That seems way better than the Neti Pot. I’m glad you brought that up because—because my wife she did the Neti Pot and something happened. I think she—she had some weird drainage and I think that that actually lead to her getting like kinda an ear pain from the Neti Pot. So what you’re talking about sounds way better.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, think about it, right? If this is like your sinus canal, right? And we’re putting water in there. The water is just gonna hit the bottom part, right?

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: For the most part. But if you get plunger in there, and you’re plunging it with actual pressure, it’s gonna have full contact of that sinus canal. So better chance of getting all the debris out.

Evan Brand: And that’s called what?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s called a Nasaline. We’ll put the link below. We’ll put the uhm—with the references. That’s gonna be great. That’s a really good product that I had a lot of patients used with great success. So you have the Bullet Proof Sinus Rinse, you have the Nasaline. If you already have the Neti, you can feel free and use the Neti. And the key things is just using the minerals using the Xylitol and/or adding some iodine. And/or just adding some silver. Like a simple thing you can do, too, is just lie back, ten drops in each nostril, three to the four times a day of high-quality silver. You know, in my line, it’s GI Clear-3 that we use and that has the 15 to 20 ppm of nano silver, not colloidal, but it’s nano. And again, don’t worry about argyria or turning blue with that. That’s gonna primarily happen from your homemade silver products.

Evan Brand: Why is nano silver better than colloidal? You got a lot of people promoting and selling colloidal out there but can you tell us why nano is superior?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Just the structure of it. It’s a different structures of a colloidal structure. It’s nanostructure so you’re gonna get better absorption for the most part.

Evan Brand: Sounds like it’s gonna be tinier the way that it’s gonna be structured.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And you can go look at—I think it’s Dr. Gordon Peterson. He’s an immunologist that’s talked a lot about this kind of silver and he’s helped formulate that kind of silver. So the nano silver, in my line, GI Clear-3, is the one we like uh—to help with that.

Evan Brand: Love it. Should we answer any couple of questions. We had a question about goat cheese. For me, dairy is dairy, regardless of the animal. I’d say pull it out especially if you’re—you are struggling. You’re better to just go completely dairy free for 30 to 60 days.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: People asking the questions, try to keep pertinent to the uh— podcast so we can connect it here. And then regarding ghee—ghee is definitely a good first dairy to add-in. So if you’re dairy-sensitive, you pull the dairy out for a few weeks to a month, and the first thing you add back in should be the ghee. Ghee is clarified butter so they suck out the lactose part. They suck out the casein part. All you got is the butter fat. So you have, basically, you know, very little casein, maybe microscopic levels and very little lactose. So you— it’s gonna be even better than butter, per se. An then if you do go with ghee, then you can try a little bit of grass-fed butter which will have very tiny amount of lactose and very tiny amounts of casein which may be acceptable level for you.

Evan Brand: For me, I could to the good quality grass-fed butter without a problem.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Cheese, though—ee—cheese and even raw milk, man. I don’t do good with those. I just—I really don’t. Skin breakouts, gas, bloating—not good. But I can do great with ghee and great with grass-fed butter.

Evan Brand: Isn’t it amazing, though. I mean just that one simple swab you got on me, you’re like, “Evan , man, you’ve gotta get rid of the cheese. Coz I would talk you through, you know, we’re kinda—you and I will talk off-air about what you eat, what do you do in diet-wise and what’s working and I told you, “Man, I’m doing this organic cheese.” And I don’t know if would say I was having sinus issues, but I definitely had some—I guess I would call it head pressure. Basically, kind of like a mild headache in the front of my—in the front of my head. I did not know that that was caused from dairy. And it was.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Your skin looks a thousand times better since you cut a lot of that cheese out.

Evan Brand: Yeah. I feel good. And I cut out corn, too. Now, I will do a little bit of some organic—blue—uh—blue corn chips maybe once a month or something now. They just taste so good.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Alright. That’s one paleo demerit down there.

Evan Brand: Hey, I know you’ve done some corn in 2017, right?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: A little bit. Well, I mean—obviously, it’s a Mexican restaurant, called Maddy’s. And we’ll do a little bit of their gluten-free organic corn chips that are like in a plastic bag. So it’s totally a waste, there’s no cross contamination. So, I will, from time to time, as a little reward. It’s Friday, you know, a little—little NorCal margarita, a little bit of Dr. J’s Moscow Mule. Yeah. Absolutely. Love it. Add it to the list.

Evan Brand: And now is that—are—or now is that blue? Or is that—is that yellow corn? I may be one up on you in the blue here.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh—Yeah. I think it’s probably just the yellow. But it’s least organic and GMO free which is essential.

Evan Brand: Totally—totally.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: Maddy’s is good and what was it—Tacodeli down there in Austin. They’ve got organic, pasture-raised pork shoulder tacos.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Unbelievable.

Evan Brand: Have you had those?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’ve not. Tacodeli?

Evan Brand: Oh my, god. You’ve gotta go, man. It’s off uh—I wanna say it’s off of 360. Shouldn’t be too far from you. And they do organic uhm—they do organic tortillas as well and pasture-raised pork, so.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it. Love it. Very cool. So let’s kinda summarize, alright? So you’re coming into this here and you missed the whole 45 minutes chat. So what are the key take homes? Diet, of course, refined sugar, dairy, gluten, grains—cut that out. If that’s not enough, you can go do an autoimmune template where we cut out, nuts, seeds, nightshades and eggs. You’ve left meat, vegetables, maybe a little bit of low, sugar fruit, maybe a little bit of starch and healthy fats minus dairy and uhm—nut and seeds. So that’s our good first step that we need. Now, after that, there are some preparation and things we can do ahead of time but may not help you in the moment. That’s the healthy pregnancy, that’s the stress, that’s getting the vaginal canal in contact with the baby on the way out to activate the immune system, that is the good quality breast milk, that is all that good stuff there. And keep them mom’s nutritional density high when she is breastfeeding because that becomes the building blocks to a lot of the uhm—raw material in the breast milk. You know my expression is you can’t make chicken salad out of a chicken shit, right?

Evan Brand: Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: If you got crappy quality ingredients going in that mom, guess what, you can’t make this awesome breast milk with bad ingredients. So let’s really keep the quality high. Next, we have for the sinuses, you have structural issues, you can do the nasal specific chiropractic technique, you can do adjusting of the spine, and the whole—the neck as well, especially the upper cervical area and then adjusting Eustachian tube to help increase the angle to allow the ear to drain, right? Now we have the rinses for the sinuses. We have the bulletproof rinse, we have colloidal silver uhm—for the sinuses. And we also can do hydrogen peroxide in water, 50-50 split and do drops in the nose, 4x a day, 10 drops. And then we also have the ear. We can do Similasan Homoeopathic, we can do the Citricidal; we can do the Hydrogen Peroxide; we can also do the silver. And then you can also do a little bit of garlic oil in there, as well. What do you think, Evan? I think we just like hit it all at once.

Evan Brand: Yeah. That was good. And treat the gut, too.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Of course. And the best things—the supplement you can use on your baby if they’re newborn, Infantis Probiotic. Infantis is a specific type of probiotic. One that we like is Ther-biotic Complete for Kids. That’s a great one uh—for kiddos. And—and that can be powder so you can just put in on your finger and then you can just put it in the gums or if you’re breastfeeding, you can put in the nipple area and have the child, get it from that. And also, give it to the mom and it will help with any potential translocation via the breast milk as well.

Evan Brand: I will say one last thing about breast milk and this is probably gonna only apply to maybe just a few listeners, but there are breast milk donation services out there, where for some reason if the mother is just too busy, she is working too much, I’ve seen women going and getting breast milk from other moms. I would never do that from my baby because who knows what that moms diet is like. Who knows how much glyphosate is in that. If the mother is not eating organic. We know, I just chatted with Dr. William Shaw in my podcast, you know, we’re talking about parts per billion of glyphosate which is what’s used a non-organic produce. Parts per billion being enough to disrupt uh— gut bacteria and kill beneficial bacteria in the gut which can lead to these ear infections. And so for me, I would never ever, ever, ever unless there’s was just something so wrong with the mother that she could not feed the baby—her breast milk. And she had to get another mom’s breast milk, I would literally have to do an interview process of that— of that mother. Is your diet organic? Are you eating gluten? Are you eating dairy? Because that’s gonna—breast milk is not all created equal, like you mentioned.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I mean, it’s really simple. You just pay a little bit more money. You—you provide that food for that mother who’s donating the milk if that’s your only option.

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I mean, for the first 6 months. What you’re doing there, for 6 months to your kid is a better investment than paying for college or any of that. That’s like the best investment. So if you’re in that position and you have to do that, then definitely find someone. You know, the Lalecheleague’s a really good reference for that. But really find high-quality breast milk, if you need. There’s some Weston A Price recipes where you can do some home-made breast milk with liver extract and cod liver oil and raw milk or raw goat’s milk. But then also, like if the mom can’t breastfeed, it’s typically something wrong from a stress perspective and from a diet perspective, so really look at getting the diet fixed. I see a lot of women who go low fats have problems with producing breast milk. So—

Evan Brand: Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s really, really important. And then don’t quit. Like, don’t quit. Like can you imagine, like evolutionary times where like food’s like, you can’t feed. You don’t have like formula, you didn’t have all these things. So you couldn’t breastfeed your kid, like what would you do? That was it.

Evan Brand: You’re done for.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: This is it. They can’t eat solid food, right? Too young, what do you do, right? So maybe there will be another woman in the tribe that you give the baby off to and they would lactate for you. But ideally, you gotta get the diet right, you gotta get the stress right and then also, make sure that the inflammatory foods are out of there so the highest quality nutrients are coming through.

Evan Brand: Yeah. It sounds like we have to do a whole breastfeeding.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: Or optimal baby podcast.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: But I’ve heard many women, who they’ve completely just given up on breastfeeding because they said they were too stressed or too busy or something like that. But you really gotta try to modify that to make it possible because—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We’ll do a whole podcast on this. We’ll do a whole podcast on it. There’s a lot of nutrients and stuff you can do like fenugreek, you know, uh—mother’s milk tea. Just all kinds of things. And also, get a doula. If you’re having a hard time, get a doula. There are so many things. Like most women, it’s like, “Oh, I tried and it’s done.” No, get a doula. Like try for days, use—get someone who’s done it. So many times, they know all the tips and tricks to make it happen.

Evan Brand: Yup. Totally.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And that’s coming from someone who wasn’t breastfed ideally long enough. So I’m really passionate about getting that information out there.

Evan Brand: Me too. Me too. Well, we’ll send people back to your website. They can type in, Justinhealth.com to check out Justin and schedule consult with him. We deal with this stuff all the time, every single week, in the clinic. And my website notjustpaleo.com or just google our names: Justin Marchegiani Marchegiani Evan Brand. You’ll find us and make sure you subscribe here on the YouTube channel. Justin have over 25,000 subscribers on YouTube. Congrats. Whoo—

That’s uh—make sure we push that closer to a hundred grand because this is important information that is not readily available. Even in 2017, somebody’s gonna go down the street to the clinic, and maybe regret the mode of action that was taken. So we want to save you from that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. Any other questions you wanna answer in the queue there, Evan? I don’t think so. Was there any for you?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhm—again, someone said- Sam asked about Probiotics for a 7 year-old. Well, I’d probably still go with the Infantis. But you know, you’re gonna go, you’re gonna have a blend of Lactobacillus, Bifidobacterium Infantis in there . So you’re probably good with that one. I recommended it.

Evan Brand: Yeah. And I would say for a 7-year old, too. Believe it or not, I had a three-year-old girl but I just had her stool test back and she had 2 parasites and Candida and bacterial overgrowth. So, I mean, if the seven-year-old has got symptoms go ahead and get a—get a GI Map stool test on her I wouldn’t be surprised if she’s had antibiotics her seven years of life. She might have some type of overgrowth already. And you just don’t wanna come in and just try to fix it with a probiotic. A lot of times, that won’t be enough. You can’t just out probiotic your way out of an infection, unfortunately.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. And the easiest way to get kids to eat healthy. And again, this may, you know, sound kind of patronizing, right? But it—it’s a 100% true. Number one, don’t have crap in the house. Clean out all the crap in the house. Number two, you have family meals together and you will role model what good eating looks like. Mom and dad, they sit down to have their meal and they role model what it looks like. And the whole idea, you know, once the kid’s eating solid food, and they actually have teeth and they can chew and stuff, the whole idea behind baby food versus kids food, once they—once the mastication’s dialed in is ridiculous, right? They should be eating adult food and just, you know, cut it up small and make it really easy to digest. But those foods need to be done as well and you just role model it to the kids. You just parrot it back and the kids want to be like the mom and the dad. And they’re gonna wanna just do what the parents are doing. So you role model it and you create a really good environment and family meals.

Evan Brand: So we’re in those something funny uh—and we’re getting off topic but it’s Friday so we’re having fun. Uhm—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It all connects back to that because if you don’ get to diet, right? Then you’re gonna have sinus infections and ear infections all day long.

Evan Brand: A 100%. So it is on topic. Yeah, for sure. So my wife and I, we were discussing last night, “When do you make the transition from baby foods over to solid food?” You know, from pureed foods to real foods. And well, she said, “They tell you.” And our daughter, she’s starting to fuss about the pureed foods. And she’s trying to grab of mom’s plates. So like last night, for example, we some steam broccoli, we had some peas and carrots that we did for lunch, with our veggies and we did some meats. And we gave her her own little plate of peas with some butter on there and some carrots, and some broccoli. And she ate it up—insane. And she’s 10 month old, I thought, “Oh, my lord, look at her appetite. She’s probably starving to death waiting for real food.” She’s like, “I’m sick of this pureed crap. Give me some real food.”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. Plus the teeth are coming in. So it’s a natural progression, right?

Evan Brand: At six months, you may start to add in some smooshed peas, some smooshed avocados, 95% of it doesn’t get in the mouth. It’s more of that tactile play experience. But eventually it gets in there and the teeth come out. And then you can start introduce it. And you’re doing a great job with how you’re doing it. Keeping it mashed, keep it simple, staying away from the hyper-allergenic food. That’s great.

Evan Brand: Yup, yup. So we have uh—we gave her a little bit of chicken yesterday, too, which she did fine with. It was very plain, not much seasoning on it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Evan Brand: Just some—some baked—pieces of some baked uh chicken thighs and she loved it. She ate it up. So it’s a lot of fun—a lot of fun—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I love it.

Evan Brand: to eat healthy.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Awesome, man. And well, it’s great little Friday, here in Austin. I’ll be uh—doing a little waterskiing this weekend.

Evan Brand: Nice.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Really excited about that. Any plans for you? Well, uh—we’re gonna go scope out—scope out some eco-friendly uh—paint and flooring options. And figure out what we can do about—about this house, so—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I love it, man. Excited about it. Keep me posted.

Evan Brand: Sure.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And everyone listening, we appreciate your attendance. If you like these live ones, these live podcast, give us feedback. Let us know; like it; share it; give us a five-star review on iTunes as well. We’ll put—we’ll repost them on iTunes. If you listening on iTunes right now and you wanna see Evan and I go back and forth, duking it out in the flesh, click the link below so you can watch the uh—YouTube link. And uh—we’re excited to continue to do more of these and share more information.

Evan Brand: Take care. Have a great weekend.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Evan, my man, take care, buddy. Bye.

Evan Brand: Bye.










Products mentioned:

JustinHealth GI Clear-3


Dave Asprey’s Bullet Proof Sinus Rinse


Citricidal Ear Drops

Similasan Homeopathic

Infantis Probiotic

Ther-biotic Complete for Kids

Hydrogen Peroxide, 3%

Immune System, Tapping Technique and GI infections – Podcast Live with Dr. J and Evan | Podcast #131

Dr. Justin Marchegiani and Evan Brand engage in a lively and informative discussion about their recent clinical successes with their patients using the functional medicine approach. Listen to them as they dig into the root cause of their patients’ issues and turn chronic and seemingly complicated problems into success stories.

Know about the tapping technique which involves turning something negative into a better, positive thought. Learn more about GI infections, the bacteria or parasite that may be involved, as well as the tests and treatment options that are proven successful in the functional medicine world. 

 In this episode, we cover:

 03:50   Immune System, bacteria, and infection relationship

 15:50   Tapping Technique

 19:17   Treating Hypochloridia

 24:10   GI infections

 28:34   Enzyme Tests






Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We are live on YouTube here. Podcast live on demand. Also, live here on Facebook. Evan, how are you doing, man?

And again, Facebook people you gotta click on the link here uhm—I’ll put in the comments to see Evan’s pretty face and go back and forth on this. How we doing, man?

Evan Brand: What’s going on? I’m feeling really good today. We’ve got a blue skies, the trees are blooming which they probably—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Awesome.

Evan Brand: a year ago in Austin. So I’m enjoying myself.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very good. So we got podcast on demand. So anyone wants to write in some suggestions as we chit chat here, we’ll figure out what exactly we want to talk about moving forward.

Evan Brand: Yeah. And I might as well post a link over here to my Twitter page and see if uh—people are paying attention over there. That way, if they’ve got questions, they can get them answered here.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it. Totally makes sense. Same thing, anyone on Facebook, too, every  chimes in first we can get this thing moving. But let’s uh—just talk about some clinical successes in the last week with patients. Any updates from you, man?

Evan Brand: Yes. So interesting update is uh—there’s a female client that comes to mind and she had seven, I believe, I have to go back at here stool test and count. But I believe it was seven infections and this is a combination of two parasites which—let me just pull it up, that way, I’m not just shooting into the dark here, but—Uhm— with these infections, we started a gut protocol and symptom improvement was seen. She was having a lot of irritable bowel symptoms uhm— running to the bathroom. So she showed up with H. pylori, Blastocystis Hominis, Entamoeba and Fragilis and Proteas  and Citrobacter. Somehow, cal protectin level was still low  which is intestinal inflammation where—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: –I look at but I was surprised. And so anyhow, we put her on this protocol. And this is like 8 weeks.  And the H. pylori while it’s still positive, instead of two viral factors, now she’s got one viral factor. The level of H.Pylori has dropped. The Citrobacter is completely gone. The Proteus completely gone. The Blasto is completely gone. But we still got Entamoeba. So there’s still the parasite and there is still the H. pylori there. So we’ve got work to do but yet, we’ve seen 3 or 4 things disappearing. So I think what the takeaway message is from me is that the bodies gonna heal in an interesting way. It may not heal everything at the same time. Some things may be easier to kill. Some things may disappear first, but you gotta heal yourself especially your gut, your microbiome. You gotta heal these things in layers. And that’s what we’re seeing here.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. So typically with a lot of patients that have chronic issues is there are some underlying stress, right? Emotional, physical, chemical stress but even deeper above and beyond that, there is some level – there’s some level of  infection that’s deeper that creating inflammation even though it didn’t show via calprotectin or it’s just creating leaky gut. And the whole leaky gut mechanism is getting the immune system fired up. The more the immune system is fired up, it’s just an energy suck for  your body. It’s like uhm—let’s say guests in you guest bathroom that you never go into your house. And they just leave the water on. Just a little bit—little drip, drip, drip. And then you get your water bill at the end of the month, and you’re like, “Where the heck did that bill come from?” And you’re like, “Oh, yeah. The faucet’s on.” But it’s like that with your energy resources. When got these bugs, it really—when the immune system is overactive. And even just a leaky gut, right? The more your immune system is overactive, the more it’s gonna suck your energy dry. That’s why when you get sick, the first symptom you get when you get sick is what? You get a lot of fatigue and malaise coz the immune system is sucking resources. Go ahead—

Evan Brand: I wanna hear uh—a recent case from you, but first I wanna ask you the question that I get asked all the time. And the answer really doesn’t matter because we need to fix the root cause no matter what. But people often ask well– chicken or egg? Was it that ma—my immune system got taxed first? And then I picked up these bacterial pathogens or these parasites? Or did I pick up the parasite and the bacterial pathogens and then that that set my immune system? What’s your take? Can it go either way?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. So typically it’s one of two scenarios, right? Typically someone gets exposed to a very high amount of infectious debris, right? Parasitic—parasites. So you drink some really bad water, you to go Mexico, you have really bad meal or at a foreign country, you get the Bali belly, so to speak. And then you’re overwhelmed with all of that infectious debris and then there’s so much of it that it compromises your immune system, you get diarrhea, you have a lot of gut inflammation that creates malabsorption. That malabsorption puts stress on all of your glandular systems and then you spiral downhill. That’s scenario number one. So just the infectious—the infection was so overwhelming, it just threw everything else downhill. Scenario number two is there some type of immune compromisation  that’s happening. Meaning adrenal stress, poor diet, poor sleep, or poor diet and lifestyle habits, low nutrient density. The immune system’s kinda a little bit weaker underneath the surface then you get exposed to some of these infectious debris at smaller micro levels that are in the food. And eventually makes its way to the system and creates inflammation.

Evan Brand: So yeah—so let me—let me clarify there. If we’ve—If we’ve got diet, lifestyle mostly dialed in, but let’s say people are cheating with gluten, for example. They still got intestinal permeability going on. You can still have good class, good sleep, blah, blah, blah. But if you’ve got just a simple thing like leaky gut, for example, you could potentially be more susceptible to pick up these infections regardless of whatever else is dialed in.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I mean—here’s the deal with leaky gut, too. If you’re creating leaky gut, and then there’s some research, you know, on the non-celiac, gluten sensitivity side of the fence, that looks at these foods. Even if you’re not like reacting to a it, like symptomatically, and even if you’re not like having like IBS -like symptoms,  bloating, you know, gas constipation, diarrhea, that gluten can still create leaky gut. Where the undigested food particles in the gut can make their way into the bloodstream and create stress. And then the LPS that comes in there along with that, that’s the— the bacterial debris can get into bloodstream and create a lot of mood issues as well. So you can still have leaky gut and not risk from gluten— and still not respond to gluten in general.

Evan Brand: Yup. Yup. I just posted a post on uh—Facebook which I think might be a slightly controversial which was I wrote this little bit of a letter and I put kind of like these five things that have happened over the last year or so where people have said, “Evan, I’ve ditched psychiatrist or I’ve ditched my psychologist or my marriage counselor, or my conventional doctor because of functional medicine.” I kinda wrote the reasons why of how if you lower inflammation, you may need less adjustments at the chiropractor, for example. If you heal the gut, you start producing your neurotransmitters optimally, you might not you’re your antidepressants anymore, so you might not need your psychiatrist. Or if you heal your adrenals, you’re not gonna snap at your children anymore, so therefore you’re not gonna need the marriage counselor that is telling you need to stop yelling at your kids. And how basically how functional medicine can literally, not intentionally, but it’s just a side effect is that we can replace these other industries. I’m not saying these other industries are bad for mental health care or anything like that. But a lot of times, this is not root cause medicine. And my wife and I went out you with a friend of ours yesterday and she said she had a lot of stress, she had to put her dog down and she called up her psychiatrist and said, “Hey I need help, I’m freaking out.” What does he do? He prescribed her 60 Xanax and says, “Here’s your Xanax bars and take these.” And I told her, I said, “Listen, your anxiety and your stress from this issue is not a Xanax deficiency.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.

Evan Brand: How about we do some emotional freedom technique. We start tapping. How about we cleanup the diet? And then before we left, out the parking lot, I had her do the quick coherence technique, the Heartmath, like the heart focus breathing.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: And focusing on someone that she loved and we got done with it, and she said, “That was weird.”  I said, “What happened?” And she said, “I got tingly and warm.” I said, “Oh, it worked.” And she said, “What happened?” I said, “Well, you just took yourself out of fight or flight that you’re probably stocked in which is causing you to be dependent on Xanax and now we’ve pushed you into that parasympathetic rest and digest mode.” And she feels better. And this is what this is all about. Uh—a little bit of uh—off-subject uh—, but I just wanted to mention to people, check on my Facebook post and you’ll read about what I’m saying. I’m not saying these other uh— practitioners out there are garbage. What I am saying is that if you’re not getting a practitioner to focus on root cause, even if they are psychiatrist, if they’re not a root cause psychiatrist, then what the hell are they doing?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s all about resources, right? And in functional medicine world, we’re trying to help enhance your resources. So just like someone with more money in their bank account can buy more things, well if we enhance our mental, emotional bank account via healthy and diet and lifestyle functional medicine principles, we have more resources to deal with stress in our life. Whether it’s family, friends, being a parent, being present for our partner, just being able to do the hobbies of a hobbit—hobbits—uh—

Evan Brand: Haha

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: The hobbies and the habits that we have going on in our life.  I got uh—I guess I’m missing my uh – Lord of the Rings movies there. Yeah. So—It ‘s all about resources, right? So we have to make sure that we have enough resources in our system so we can allocate them toward these stressors. And I always tell my patients, “Have you ever tried dealing with stress on 0 night sleep? or “Try doing your taxes the next day when you’re getting like three hours of sleep?”  You’re just  not gonna be able to handle it. You don’t have the resources. So everything we’re trying to do is let’s test the resources of our body systems, let’s look where the hormone’s at, let’s look at where the gut resources are at, let’s look at detox and nutrient resources are at, let’s support them and let’s work on fixing them.

Evan Brand: Well, the analogy I like to use is we’re just using a big spotlight. Because a lot of different industries and health care, what they do is they use like a little laser pointer or like one of those tiny little keychain flashlight. And they shine something real dimly into one corner. And you’re like, “Oh, Justin looks like we found something. We found some anxiety issues, here’s the Xanax.” But instead, we come in with a giant spotlight and we’re like, “Whoa, look at the left corner of this microbiome. We got parasitic and bacterial infections, which can steal your nutrients, can mess up your blood sugar and cause anxiety. Look over here,  we’ve got some adrenal issues. You got spiking of cortisol that’s gonna need to be addressed.” And then we shine the spotlight over here, “Oh, take a look at our detox pathways on the organic acids, you’ve got trouble over here.” And “Oopp, we shine the spotlight behind us, here’s mitochondrial issues. This is why you’re so fatigued.” And that’s the—I think that’s the greatest analogy. It’s a little laser pointer or a little small keychain flashlight, which is just pinpointing one industry of psychiatry or psychology or whatever versus exploring everything. Which is why for you and I, it’s tough for us to become the blank guy. You know people out there, “the thyroid guy” “ the detox chick” “ the bone broth chick” You know what I mean? It’s really gonna be tough for you and I to just say we’re the blank person because I don’t want to limit myself. I wanna let everyone know it is all encompassing.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: And if rest and niche yourself down, I think it’s a bad thing.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Like from a marketing standpoint, right? Marketing is just telling the truth attractively. You know it’s good to have the niche because you wanna reach the people that have special conditions. Because if like, my specialty is thyroid. Number one, I have—I have or had a thyroid issue. It’s under control. Autoimmune thyroid issue. So I’m more passionate about that issue. But again, to treat  a thyroid issue, you have to be able to treat all of the systems. So it’s kind of a mythology, like you don’t just ever treat thyroid, you treat the whole thing. But you may mark and put information out there that’s gonna resonate and speak to someone with a thyroid issue more. But again, the underlying issue is from education and clinical standpoint. We’re addressing the key underlying surface issues and the deep root issues as well. So we’re never ignoring it. We may speak to someone uhm—more specifically and get into the more nuances of that condition, but it all comes back down to the foundational stuff that we always talk about.

Evan Brand: Right. I would say my specialties would be— it’s become parasites really. I mean, I’m seeing so many each week and it’s just so fun. I guess because I had parasites.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You had a parasite, you.

Evan Brand: Uh—Yeah. And also depression, I mean because depression is what got me into this whole thing. IBS and depression in college, I mean, like I told you before, I had to figure out when I went  into a college class, where’s the bathroom. Coz I have to get out in the middle of the class to run to the bathroom.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: And so for me, depression, IBS, parasites, you know, those are all linked together—the whole gut-brain connection. And I really am empathetic for people that have struggled with that because it’s so common and if you diagnosed with IBS, that’s a pretty generic diagnosis. And unless you’re with functional medicine practitioners, you’re gonna get an acid blocker, an antispasmodic—

 Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Absolutely.  

Evan Brand: — or some other drug and—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well actually, you were diagnosed with IBS, right?

Evan Brand: I was.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And you use the antispasmodic, you used the medications that helps with the gastroparesis. You know—

Evan Brand: Well, they never –

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: They even do that—

Evan Brand: Well they never got to use it. They try. They wrote me the prescription pad but I denied all three of the drugs.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And the thing is, too, we can also use natural medicines for a lot of those things. That may not fix the root cause, right? There’s root cause medicine and there is using natural medicine in a way that’s gonna help alleviate the symptoms that’s gonna up regulate physiology so things work better. But we have to still be investigating and digging to the root cause, right? So we’re dealing with someone with gastroparesis or low motility, we may add in things like ginger. We may add in things like carnitine. We may add, you know, higher amounts of mag citrate to keep that uhm—migrating motor complex moving. But we are still digging in deep. We’re still making the diet, the lifestyle. We’re still enhancing digestive nutrients, uh—hydrochloric acid enzymes. And then we’re digging deep for the infections. And we’re trying to lock in those diet and lifestyle habits, right? The supplements are great because they can give us that symptomatic relief while we continue to dig over here to the root cause. So as long as you have, you know, that  four pace envision that addresses some of the symptoms without the side effects, you know of some of the drugs, which may have more side effects than what you’re treating, and then working on the functional medicine plan, I think we’re in a really good place. 

Evan Brand: I agree. Yeah. I actually got a good—good success with that IB Synergy product from designs which get Bonigut in there. It’s got the 5-HTP. I had a guy with just super bad IBS and I said, “Man” I mean he was critically, critically stricken with both diarrhea and constipation just alternating every other day.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: So I have him going with that 5-HTP Bonigut blend. And he got better. Now we start to wait for lab results but yeah—I mean  sometimes we will do some of the quick fix of band-aid situations to fix things, but we still got to work backwards. I guess to answer these questions uh—should we answer the question about the cancer question here or shall we just make a whole show on the future?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. We’ll do a whole show on that. I’ll get some experts on. I got Dr. David Jocker is coming next month as well. He was in the truth about cancer series. And we’ll go on ketogenic diets and we’ll talk more about therapeutic ways to address cancer outside of just the natural chemotherapy. So we’ll hold that one that—we need more time for that.

Evan Brand: Yeah. Agreed. Uh—Samuel asked, “What is the tapping technique? Can you show us? Well since most of our audiences are gonna be audio listeners we’re not gonna take up the air time to show you the technique, but the best resources—EFT (Evan-Frank-Tom) EFT.mercola.com and you can just view the different acupressure meridians that you’re gonna tap. But then also, you’re gonna learn about the affirmations that you can use for emotional freedom technique and that’s something Justin and I use all the time.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think it’s helpful. I’m—I’m gonna just give it 15 seconds of airtime here, so—just—I do two hands coz it’s adding it’s more efficient. But you just tap the  inners part of the eyebrow, the outer parts of the eyebrow, under the eyes, I do under the nose, and the bottom part of the chin the same time. And then I do both collarbones. So I do this, and you can go top of the head and tap midline. So I do two hands coz I just feel like you get more stimulation. So I go here, and I’m just thinking about whatever is pissing me off, my wife, I just think about it.

Evan Brand: Haha

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I kinda give it a number. So if I’m a t like 6/10 regarding irritation, I just think about it. Whatever that issue is, whether it’s like, you know, the person driving  in front of me is so slow  or whatever. And I try to knock that 6 out of 10 so that 10 is the worst.  6 is like 60% to being at the worst. I try to knock it down to a4 to a 3. And so every round—every 2 rounds or so, you kinda just check back in and see if you knock it down. And you go as you kinda knock everything down to a 3.

Evan Brand: Yeah. And we have—I—I start at the top of the crown which I usually like—many ways—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You can do that. You can start there, you can end there.

Evan Brand: Now do you do the sides? I know Mercola, he’s big on the side of rib cage under the armpit.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I do that, too, sometimes. It’s just wasn’t good for a video.

Evan Brand: Yeah. So you criss cross?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I do two at the same time just coz it’s stimulation.

Evan Brand: No. I mean you criss cross your arms so the underarm’s like this. I do like a monkey.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Haha

Evan Brand: And then—and then finish with the wrist. I typically finished by tapping the insides of the wrist together then doing the affirmations. So even though I’m angry, or even though I’m anxious, I deeply love and accept myself. But you gotta say the affirmation verbally. I tell people if you can, if you’re just embarrassed, then don’t do it. But why be embarrassed? Nobody—nobody is paying that much attention to you.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. That depends, too. Like you can do this stuff, and you can kinda say like if you’re at—let’s say, if you’re lying in bed and you’re just really stewing on something and your wife’s next to you and you don’t wanna wake her up, then you can just kinda think it in your head. And then you can just, you know, do the affirmations, tap like this.  And then you can tap here, and think about the issues.

I like them to end, though, with a positive thing. So you can end with something positive. So then I just go into like, “What is it that I want to manifest?” So I’m going into right there. I’m thinking about whatever I’m gonna try to create or produce in my life, I just tap it while I’m thinking about it. And the whole idea of tapping is you’re just stimulating various meridian systems that have been mapped out via acupuncture system for thousands of years. And really what it’s doing is it’s neutralizing the negative response that’s stored in the limbic system or in that subconscious of your—more in the psychological side of it. And you’re trying to kinda rewire it so you can get a good pattern there instead. So then, naturally that reflux is to go back to the better thing and not to the negative thing.

Evan Brand: So if you do affirmation about the bad part, would you do like an affirmation about the bad part and an affirmation for a positive?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes. So I start off with the negative and just try to lessen—lessen it first.

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Coz if you’re—feeling negative, it’s really hard to be positive when you’re negative so I try to decrease the negative to about a three. And then I go into the positive because then, you are in a better place to deal with the positive, right? It’s kinda like when someone tells you to relax and you’re pissed off, like relax, calm down. You just wanna punch him, right? Like, “No, I’m too wound up, come on.”

So I wanna get that dialed in and then now I’m relaxed, now I can rewire it and create some positive things.

Evan Brand: I like it. I like it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So calm down first, and then work on manifestation.

Evan Brand: Should we answer a couple of more questions here?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Let’s hit it, man. Let’s hit it.

Evan Brand: Solam asked, “How long does it take to heal hypochloridia?”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It totally depends, right? If you have emotional stressors that are unresolved ore you’re eating foods that are incredibly inflammatory, maybe never. But if you’re making the root causal changes and your managing your stress, and you’re fixing the underlying gut stuff, I would say within 3 to 6 months, you have a really good chance of not needing hydrochloric acid to digest your food. But again, everyone is different. A longer—the longer the issues been going on, the more severe the infections, and the more infections that are layered in there, I’d say longer, up to a year, at least.

Evan Brand: Yeah. I’ll just have my two cents to that, too. If you had a previous history of a prescription, as a blocker’s proton pump inher—inhibitors are now it’s open to counter like the Xanax or the Toms, or anything like that, or—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Evan Brand: Or if you’ve had H. pylori which we’ve chatted about many times, then I would say it may lengthen that time, too, to fix that stomach acid issue.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: The longer that gut’s has been worn down, the more the immune system is revved up like you get patients are just supersensitive to every little thing. Like I can’t even put in an enzyme, I can’t even put in our apple cider vinegar or lemon juice or the smallest fermented food sets them off. It’s really hard and you’re looking at a couple of years to really dive into it because the immune system is so revved up and it’s so ready to attack the smallest invader that it’s so hard to put things into help and heal it because it’s looking at everything as a foe not a friend.

Evan Brand: Right. We really, really have the baby step in those cases so that’s why—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. Yeah. I mean, just like you heal, with you know, food is medicine there, you go really slow and you do lots of things in broth form, in soup form so it’s – so it is so palatable. There is very little digestion that has to happen. And typically one supplement at a time and one nutrient at a time, titrate up from low to high. Even if it’s something that they can handle, if they go high dose, off the bat,   their immune system just freaks out.

Evan Brand: Well I wanna hit on something you just mentioned which is if we’re talking 1 to 2 years, it takes extreme patient—extreme patience for patients and clinicians because for us, that is a very intensive case for us to take on.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.

Evan Brand: And you know, maybe this is to toot our own horns, maybe it’s just calling out the obvious that we do take the time, you know, with people we’re working  with. Sometimes it maybe 30-45 even an hour-long call for a follow-up just to take these baby steps. Whereas, let’s jus say some of the clinicians that we’ve seen out there, it’s too cookie-cutter approach and they don’t have the mental bandwidth or capacity for empathy to baby step this people.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: So it’s here’s your cookie-cutter protocol, good luck.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: Where with us, we’ve really, really, really gonna get super details.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: And so this is why if you go and you buy like a leaky gut online program or some other type of program, and you get limited results and you get to us, we’re not gonna be surprised if you suffered through that, and you didn’t get a good result. Because at the end of the day, that’s why  Justin and I haven’t created  online courses at this point because it’s—it’s hard for us to sleep at night thinking that we’ve created a program that’s too cookie-cutter. We’ve really got to figure out a way that we’re gonna be able to work in all the minutiae and the small details and the variations—variation A, B and C, D for different people.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: So if someone uh—packages something up all beautiful and says, “Oh, it’s $297 and all your problems are gonna be healed.” Uh—please be a little bit skeptical  of that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I agree. And I’ve talked to you about a patient that I had today that email in that was dropping out of care. And we try to always set realistic expectations. This person just had her labs reviewed a month or two ago, and had multiple parasitic infections, severe adrenal dysfunction, HPA axis dysfunction, and then a lot of issues on her organic tests. Uh— detoxification issues, mitochondrial issues, and we just started with simple adrenal support, made diet and lifestyle changes and she had some— some side-effects so we try to cut things down, go slower. And we’re gonna kinda reconvene and work on supporting detoxification, but person had dropped out. Now, the problem is, to have expectations that things will work off the bat when so many things are wrong like that, expectations are incorrect. So  a lot of people they have preconceived notions even if you spell it out to them and you let them know, “Here’s where we’re at now, here’s where we’re going.” They forget because they—they want it done now. And they think because things didn’t work in that initial uhm—in that initial experience, that there is no way to fix it. So continuing to harp on patients in managing their expectations, even though they have a lot of stuff they’re projecting from past failures, we kinda have to get through it. Make sure expectations are real and that make sure they know, “Hey, here’s where we’re going now. Here’s where we’re going next.” These things ahead that may have to be dealt with for us to really see great changes.

Evan Brand: Yup. Well said. We got another question here.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Let’s hit ‘em.

Evan Brand: Let’s hit Steve’s question. After all GI infections are eradicated, how long does it take the gut to fully heal? All my infections are gone, but I’m still dealing with IBS, leaky gut and issues after H. pylori.” I’m gonna hit on this first Dr. Justin Marchegiani, if you don’t mind.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup. I know you’re gonna say it, by the way.

Evan Brand: Okay. So – haha if—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: If you say it—If you say it, I’ll—I’ll tell you that.

Evan Brand: Okay. Alright. Please. Alright. So here’s what I’m gonna say. You say all your infections are gone, but you’re still dealing with IBS, leaky gut, and issues, I would like to know what test was this that says all your infections are gone because I bet all of your infections are not gone.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes! Whoo! I knew it. Yeah. You’re totally right.

Evan Brand: Haha

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. You’re totally right. And then also, just making sure that you have the digestive nutrients on board to help heal the gut lining and the digestive support to break down the food and then I would make the food more—more palatable right now. I’d be looking more at the GAPS or an SCD or more of a soup or broth approach that makes the food really easy to take in. No raw veggies, uhm—try to keep it really palatable so the body can access it without much stress.

Evan Brand: Alright. So the beauty of the Internet, Stevie says—Stevie replied and he says, “DRG” Well, uhm— Justin–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s missing a lot of them. It’s missing a lot. You gotta do the DRG with the GI map. I a—I never do the DRG by itself for the most part—always both. You gotta do both.

Evan Brand: Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And if there’s still an issue with the DRG and the GI MAP, I want them go for the  41 side-by-side.

Evan Brand: Yup. Agreed. So, Stevie, not that—you know, we’re not diagnosing you. That’s not what these calls are for. But, hey, Justin and I have seen a lot of false negatives with DRG and some other test out there. So potentially some stuff going on. And I would like to add a couple of points about like the—the issues, the leaky gut type stuff. You know, make sure you are doing some of the easy supports, too. You know, chamomile is great. You can do chamomile in a supplemental form. You’ve got chamomile teas, uhm—you’ve got L- glutamine. So there are some leaky gut supplements that why your til—still trying to figure stuff out, you can still be taking support of nutrients in the meantime while waiting for retest.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. Totally. Let’s hit  the uh—last question there by—E Center Riley. See here, just diagnosed with Hashimoto’s, TPO and TGB bodies, 465 is that high? Eliminated the foods, gluten, dairy, soy, balance in blood sugar, hard with 5 kids. What should I focus on next? So 465 is definitely high. The LabCorp reference range for TPO is 34. Anything 34 above is considered positive—I think it’s above 34. 34 below is considered positive. And anything about 20, for me, I considered to be subclinical. So that is high. Anything above or around 500 is definitely high. I’ve seen patients at 2000, though. I’ve seen patients that go from 2000 to below a 100. Now, my goal is to get people—If I were you, I’d like to see a 70 to 80% reduction in that. Again, maybe you were higher before you made those changes. So I’m not sure if it was  gluten, dairy, soy. That stuff was cut out and then you saw the drop. But either way, uhm—getting enough selenium in there, 400 micrograms of selenium, addressing the underlying infections, things like H. pylori, Blasto and Yersinia can be coming to increase the antibodies. And then making sure the adrenals are looked at. There’s a strong adrenal-thyroid connection and a lot of people who have thyroid issues also have adrenal issues. And remember, TPO is a microsomal or essentially it’s uh—intracellular microsomal antibody that helps bind the thyroid hormone together. So if you’re making antibodies to that, it’s gonna prevent that thyroid hormone that I—Iodination process from occurring. So making sure we have the adrenal support there because the adrenals help produce cortisol. Cortisol is an anti-inflammatory that’s gonna help with the inflammation. And with the TPO there uhm—you could potentially have increase in hydrogen peroxide, especially if there’s small amounts of iodine getting in there. So get them the selenium will help neutralize that hydrogen peroxide into H20. High quality H20 which is uh—not gonna be as inflammatory.

Evan Brand: Well said. Yeah. And so uhm—Isabella Wentz, I just did podcast with her a couple of weeks ago. Actually that was my last uploaded episode. And uhm—we’re talking about bacterial infections, too. So you mentioned some of the parasites and she’s seen the same thing the parasite but also the bacteria. The Klebsiella, the Citrobacter, and all these autoimmune triggers has been bad guys for uh—these Hashimoto’s situations and these antibodies, so—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, look for the bacteria, too, and you can definitely fix this stuff and you can make significant progress.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. I mean one person here, wildlab access, “How do you test for various enzymes?”Number one, if you have gut stress, you probably have low hydrochloric acid. And if you have low hydrochloric acid, you probably have low enzymes. Why? Because hydrochloric acid is important for acts of—for converting pepsinogen to pepsin which is the proteolytic enzyme. Hydrochloric acid lowers the acidity of the chyme, which is the mixed up food in the intestine. That inten—that food that chyme that goes into the small intestine which the acidity then triggers the pancreas to make bicarbonate, it also triggers CCK that then caused that the gallbladder to produce bile that also stimulates the pancreas to make light based trypsin and chymotrypsin and all the enzymes that come down. So if you have enzyme issues, you also have hydrochloric acid issues, but we can also assess it by looking at enzyme markers, like elastase, too, which will uhm—look at that in the DRG or the GI MAP test.

Evan Brand: You better get that frog out.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Frog out. It just attacked me, man. I’m like, Ugh—

Evan Brand: Alright.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: My water—so uh—yeah. Elastase, I think it’s elastase 1 is the enzyme marker we typically look at for uhm— low enzymes. But typically, just assuming that we have digestive stress, let’s assume it for sure.

Evan Brand: Yeah. I mean that’s the same—the same answer that I would say for the leaky gut. I had people say, “Oh, can you test me for leaky gut?”  It’s like, “Yeah. We can go to Cyrex and spend 500 bucks if you want to, but based on your symptoms, I guarantee there’s intestinal permeability. You’ve got XYZ. And we can—we don’t need to spend the 500 bucks on that test. Save your money for the organic acids, your comprehensive stool panels, the GPL-TOX, maybe heavy metal testing. Save your money for that stuff that you can’t really guess on.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Absolutely. I agree, man. Well, anything else you wanna hit off the bat here? I mean I think—I had some really good successes last week, too, with some patients that had chronic pain, chronic mood, chronic energy, hair loss. And I mean—just really simple things. We—we fix their hormones, this person has autoimmune thyroid, uhm—hypothyroid as well. T3 was super low, it was uh– T4 to T3 conversion issue, dysregulated cortisol. They had a lot of malabsorption and they had a couple of infections and we just—we just took them down the map. An then just everything first time around, uhm—just knocked in place. I mean it’s like you swing the bat once and it’s connected. It’s gone. Those were the patients where its like, “It’s just so rewarding coz it’s just—it’s easy” And then you have  some patients where it’s a lot more trial and error and digging in. So it’s nice to have those home runs every now and then.

Evan Brand: Oh, man. I—so I had a home run earlier with this guy that I got off the phone with name Dion. And he was on an inhaler. An asthma inhaler.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: And also I believe he was taking uh—allergy medication, like a prescription allergy medication.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: Maybe it was one or the other. He alternated or he was on the inhaler something. But he was on prescriptions for allergies. And all we did is we cleaned up the diet, we’ve addressed some gut infections. He had candida and I believe a couple bacterial infections. I don’t believe he had parasites. I have to look back. But I remember a couple of infections, fix the gut, uh—supported adrenal’s basic adrenal support, some adaptogens. And I talked with him today and he said, “Evan, I’ve not used my medication in the last six weeks. And everything is blooming here right now. All the trees and plants and everything are blooming and normally, I’m debilitated. He said, “I’m completely fine.”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Isn’t that awesome?

Evan Brand: How in the world just by working on the gut and adrenals am I not allergic to the environment anymore? It’s just like, “Oh, it makes me feel so good.”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I see that all the time, too. And hydrochloric acid is one of those things that’s really great with allergies, too. You notice that?

Evan Brand: Ain’t that weird? I mean since digestive enzymes, I told him, I said, “Man, we’ve gotta keep up digestive enzymes.” And then actually I am gonna send him a bottle of some of the like natural herbal anti-histamines, just in case. Because he started sneezing on the phone. I’m like, “Whoa, maybe you’re not all the way out of the water yet. Have this on hand, in case you need it.” So the coresatin in, the rutin, some of those–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hesperetin

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: The things I love for allergies: number one, just really get a good air filter. I used one by Advanced Air. You can see that at justinhealth.com/shop Look at the approved products. I like it. It’s good. Uhm—and then your natural anti-histamine degranulating compounds. In my product, Aller Clear. Stinging Nettle, coresatin, and then you’re gonna have like some vitamin C in that, some potassium bicarb as well. So those are really good. And you can go up to eat. The nice thing about it, just not gonna be drowsy. So you can get that allergy support without getting the drowsiness and then really make sure the diet is anti-inflammatory. Up the hydrochloric acid because HDL is really important with low—with allergy. It’s gonna make a big difference.

Evan Brand: Yup, Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Ginger. Ginger is phenomenal, too, for allergies. Really good.

Evan Brand: I love ginger. So it’s a great nutrient. I’d do teas, ginger kombucha, there’s so much you can do with ginger.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, yeah. By the way, right after this, I’ve got a new grill. So I’m gonna go out, I’m gonna grill some grass-fed hotdogs, right? And then I’ve got some sauerkraut with mustard. And I’ve got a nice ginger kombucha, I’m gonna open up. So I’m really excited for my lunch break today.

Evan Brand: Nice. What kind of grill? Is that one of those  pellet jobs?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I actually—I got a new Webber just because it’s—it’s—my other one was 10 years old. And then the knobs are starting to go. So I got a nice, little Webber Spirit. So it’s great. It’s got three burners. Love it. And uhm—I got a smoker that I use sometimes for ribs on the weekend just like a 4-hour job. So it’s good to have a day or an afternoon to kinda be at home to enjoy that one but—Yeah. So love my grilling. Try not to get things charred. Try to keep the heterocyclic amines and the polyaromatic hydrocarbons to a minimum.

Evan Brand: Agreed. Agreed, man. Cool. Well I don’t have one on my end.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You wanna have a share?

Evan Brand: No.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hope you guys are liking these calls here. We wanna do more. We wanna connect with the listeners. Our purpose really is to serve and help people get their health back. If people want more feedback, or want more kinda like rolling up the sleeves and specifically diving into your case, go to notjustpaleo.com or justinhealth.com, click on the schedule buttons. And we are here to help you out. Evan, anything else, man?

Evan Brand: That’s it. Have a great day people, drink clean water, get rest, reduce stress, be grateful. It’s gonna go a long way.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And people on Facebook, I’m hoping we can get Evan on here soon. We gotta just  figure that out. So hopefully, soon we’ll do that. So Evan, great chatting with you, man. We’ll talk soon.

Evan Brand: Take Care. Bye.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Bye.









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