Dr. Kelly Brogan – A Mind of Your Own – Podcast #165
In today’s video, Dr. Kelly Brogan, an accomplished doctor and author of the New York Times bestselling book “A Mind of Your Own”, joins Dr. Justin Marchegiani as they both discuss the link between gut issues and mental health. Get some useful tips on how to keep your mind clear and active without gut issues hindering it. Get your own mind back with the help of functional medicine. Let’s watch and listen!
Discover some natural ways to be more productive and learn about the different ways to address brain and gut inflammation. Also, stay tuned for some more information about Dr. Kelly’s bestselling book, “A Mind of Your Own” and viral articles.
In this episode, we cover:
02:41 Depression: Illness of Modern Civilization,
Not a Chemical Imbalance
04:53 Animal Model of Depression
08:20 Multiple Different Lifestyle Pillars
12:00 Meditation and Productivity
16:42 Supplemental Ways to Address Brain Inflammation
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey there. It’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani. Today’s podcast, we have a great guest. Dr. Kelly Brogan in the house. Kelly is wicked smart. I’ll bring up my Boston ex. You went to MIT Undergrad in Cornell from Medical School. So, it’s a privilege to have her here. She has a New York Times bestselling book, “A Mind of Your Own.” Did I say it correctly?
Dr. Kelly Brogan: That’s right? [crosstalk] You got it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: A Mind of Your Own, really looking at natural solutions to get your brain back on track and move back on track. And one of the things about Dr. Kelly that I love so much is she looks at how mood is connected with the gut. Because most people, they just want to throw a medication to fix the brain. They fix the symptoms but not actually get to the root cause, which can be in the gut. So, Dr. Kelly, welcome to the show.
Dr. Kelly Brogan: Thank you. Total pleasure to be here.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent. Well, tell us a little bit more about your self, ‘cause you went down this conventional medical rabbit hole, right? MIT, Cornell– You’re diving in deep– you do your residency, uhm– and you’re kind of learning all these conventional treatments for Mood disorders, etc. How did you come out of that alive? And how did you get your training to get to the real root cause and the functional medicine side here.
Dr. Kelly Brogan: Yeah. So, you know, I come from a very conventional mindset, and I was raised by uhm– an immigrant mom. And anyone who has immigrant parents knows that, basically, you follow the rules; you become a doctor, a lawyer and you’re supposed to be making a lot of money.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Dr. Kelly Brogan: And that was essentially, you know– My effort uhm– was to become a doctor. I thought, you know– I figured out through my work on a suicide hotline, actually, at MIT, that we’ve cracked the code of human behaviour. We know that these are genetic illnesses that are reflected as chemical imbalances that require pills for lifelong management. Cool! You know, I’m gonna participate in that model. And so, it really wasn’t into my own, sort of uhm– health journey, which is what you’ll all hear from any turncoat doctor. We had a personal experience where we bumped up against the ceiling of what conventional medicine has to offer. And we learned a broader version of the truth. And uh– you know, I’ve always been a Science Nut. I’m very comfortable on pubmed.com, and I went and researched for myself, you know– the truth about everything I learned in medical school and residency and fellowship. Uh– and what I learned was pretty jaw-dropping. I was ready to hear it though because I had already had my own uh– experience of putting an autoimmune disorder into remission through nutrition. And so, you know– what I learned is that depression, for example– Let’s just talk about depression because it’s a– It’s a emblematic of these more systemic issues in our medical system. But, uhm– it’s not a thing. It’s not a disease in a way we were told it was. And, you know, what I– what I learned through my review of the medical literature is that in six decades, you know– we’ve been trying to validate this idea that depression is a chemical imbalance. The science just isn’t there. I was shocked because I can’t tell you how many hundreds of patients I’ve sat with and I said, “You know, you have a chemical imbalance. It has something to do with Serotonin or Dopamine or Epinephrine, and you know– you need to manage it. And the sooner you accept that, you know– the easier your life is gonna be.” So patronizing. You know, I’ve said that to countless patients. And when I looked to the Science, it just wasn’t there. But, what is there, interestingly, is a science that frames depression as uhm– an illness of modern civilization, right? So, it’s a response on the part of the body, mind and spirit, uh– you know, to the kinds of stressors, exposures, triggers, toxicants that we are encountering today, that we just haven’t evolved to accommodate. And perhaps, we never will. Perhaps we’re not even meant to, right? Because…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Dr. Kelly Brogan: …of– of wrong living today, and– and the way that the natural world will ultimately ask us to get back in line. And– and one of the ways that– that asking happens, that– that invitation’s delivered is through symptoms. So, uh– you know, I found that there are actually a lot of reversible causes of what we are calling depression.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting. Very good. And I see a lot of patients, clinically, right? ‘Cause I’m working with patients making diet changes or cutting out gluten, grains, refined sugar, a lot of the inflammatory foods, or cutting out a lot of the bacteria in the gut that has this compound called LPS or lipopolysaccharide. And, you’ve talked about that kind of getting into the bloodstream and making its way to the brain, and creating mood issues there. Can you elaborate more on that?
Dr. Kelly Brogan: Yeah. So, you know, I think it’s fairly intuitive for most people– you know, that the gut and the brain are connected, right?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hmmn.
Dr. Kelly Brogan: You felt nervous about giving a speech and maybe you lost your appetite or you have diarrhea, or something like that. And that makes intuitive sense. But, the other direction– you know, the gut to brain direction, is really something we’re just beginning to develop scientific comfort with. Although it’s been actually several decades since it’s emerged in the literature. When it comes to depression, it’s interesting because the animal model of depression– There is such a thing. In the animal model of depression, the way that they induce it is to inject– Systemically, right?– in these rodents, LPS, as you mentioned. So this– this compound in a grand– grand negative bacterial balls. And the deal is that it’s not meant to be sort of circulating around. So, once it’s breached that gut-brain uh– Sorry– that gut barrier..
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.
Dr. Kelly Brogan: …then it can alert the immune system to the need of greater inflammatory response at the gut level. It’s all by design. Everything that the body does makes sense if only we have the mindset and framework to, you know, receive that uh– information. So, you know, through this lens, uhm– the inflammatory response that ultimately results in the symptoms of depression, which are what? Sleep disturbance, social avoidance, changes in appetite, for example, changes in motivation, fixation on very specific thoughts, uhm– you know, the– the– the driver of that perhaps could be reduced to a gut insult. So, where do gut insults come from? Most of the time, through what we put in our mouth…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Dr. Kelly Brogan: …right? So that means that we are empowered to make changes to our brain behavior and cognition through diet, you know. And of course, now we have science that shows that within seventy-two hours of changing your diet, you change that ecology in your gut, your microbiome. Uh– and so, I totally agree, you know, that there are certain foods that really moved the needle quickly. They also happen to be foods that are very addictive in nature, right? You know, things like, wheat, dairy, sugar, alcohol. I actually stored coffee in that mix. I know that’s little controversial.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hm– Mmhmn.
Dr. Kelly Brogan: Uh– but, you know, so– so, not only are you seeing what you look like without these addictive foods, but you’re also engaging in a pretty deep exercise of changing your gut ecology. And, you know, we could talk about the role perhaps of certain kind of starches in, you know, feeding gut bacteria, ‘cause that’s, you know, part of my approaches to restrict those for the first month.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it. Interesting. And what’s your experience treating patients ‘cause, clinically, I treat– well, fifty patients a week in my virtual clinic here in Austin. And I’m running Stool test– sometimes, even multiple Stool tests on different patients, and I’m saying, you know, obviously, “Your SIBO type of overgrowth.” “You’re Methane and you’re Hydrogen overgrowth”. And then, I’m seeing infections like, Blasto, Giardia, and Cryptosporidium, E. histo and H. pylori. What are you seeing in your patients? Are you kind of seeing a similar imbalance of those creatures.
Dr. Kelly Brogan: It’s interesting because I– you know, when I departed conventional medicine, my first deep dive was into functional medicine.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mmhmn.
Dr. Kelly Brogan: Uhm– and that’s, you know, uh– I was certified through ADIHM, and I was very interested ‘cause this is how my mind works…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Dr. Kelly Brogan: …in quantifying every aspect of my patients’ existence, right? So, I wanted blood and saliva. I wanted hormone testing. I wanted Urine analysis and I wanted Stool analysis. And I did that for several years– yeah, almost a decade, into this work. Uhm– until I came upon uhm– a deep desire to bring this opportunity to more and more people. Perhaps you couldn’t necessarily afford all that testing, or for whom it was just overwhelming, right? And so, somehow, I arrived at the point today, where my approach is actually quite simplified. Such that, I actually come to believe that if you recruit the synergy of multiple different lifestyle pillars. And they’re pretty basic, right? Pretty familiar, too, obviously. So, detoxification…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Dr. Kelly Brogan: …looking at daily contemplative practice. Of course, I’m– have my specific opinion on what I believe is one of the more powerful types. I’m Kundalini Yoga uhm– Instructor.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Nice.
Dr. Kelly Brogan: And, also the role of a strict commitment to a therapeutic diet for the space of the month. So, in working with these pillars, even without testing at all– So, in my online program, we don’t do any labs. The outcomes that I have gotten actually more rapid and more robust than when I was mired in the weeds of testing. But when I was, I actually found that there are some common uh– reversible drivers of diagnosis of anxiety, of depression, even OCD, panic attacks, ADHD, Chronic Fatigue– In my practice, the one of the most common ones was blood sugar imbalance, so…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.
Dr. Kelly Brogan: …big one, right? Uhm– so you could test for that. You can diagnose reactive hypoglycemia, or you know you can just do a dietary intervention for ten days and see if that was part of the deal for you, right? So, another big one is wheat and dairy indigenousity. So again, you can test for that or you can just take it out and see how you do. Another big, big, big– big one, probably upwards of 80 percent of my patients have a diagnosis of Hashimoto’s, often…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.
Dr. Kelly Brogan: …perhaps driven by mimicry like you’re talking about e– Epstein-Barr, uhm– for example, uh– you know, infection. Uhm– Hashimoto’s, Graves, Postpartum Thyroiditis are big– what I call, psychiatric pretenders, right? If you do not know that you have this going on, you could land your self on Zoloft and Lithium, or more. And that’s why this kinds of testing– unless you’re really committed and you just know, you’re not gonna go the medication route– you know, this kind of testing can really– potentially even, you know, save your life. I’ll be that dramatic about it. Uhm– and, you know, and then, of course, I’d become very passionate about the untold side effects of other common medications, right? So, as drivers of psychiatric illness, so things like birth control pills and acid blockers, statins, antibiotics. Uhm– so, you know, sometimes it– it– it needs to be looked at through the eyes of an expert like yourself. Uhm– but sometimes it’s really simple. You know, and– and engaging in this kind of uhm– you know, pillar approach can– can be really all you need.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool. Just curious. Can you give us like uh– a day in the life of Dr. Kelly. What does your diet look like, Breakfast, lunch, dinner?
Dr. Kelly Brogan: Yeah. So that’s the interesting uhm– part about this kind of like holistic medicine, if you want to call it that, is the power of your potential to influence and heal patients, I believe, is in direct proportion to your ability to walk the walk, right?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.
Dr. Kelly Brogan: So, you know, you transmit something to the people you are looking to help, simply because you’re living that life. So, I– you know, I walk the walk completely, you know. I asked many of my patients to do coffee enemas, for example, which I learned from my mentor, Nick Gonzalez. And you know, if II didn’t do them, how would I ever convince someone else that it’s effective? And this is why meditation is a tough one for me because I follow the literature on meditation for many years and I never did it. I was too busy. Meditation was for other people. And everytime I sat down to do it, I hated it. I hated the experience of just being with myself and being with my crazy mind, right? So, until i broke through that barrier and actually committed to a daily practice– Now I have a pretty strong 45-minute daily practice…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s great.
Dr. Kelly Brogan: …predawn. But, you know, until I did that, I didn’t– I don’t think I convinced a single patient to meditate. You know, we both sort of thought it was a good idea. They weren’t doing it. I wasn’t doing it. So, you know, the real game changer for me, personally, ‘cause I heal my Hashimoto’s mostly just through dietary change uhm– in almost eight years ago now. Uhm– and my life really changed. I’ve really rewired my nervous system and my productivity performance and aligned it with my flow, changed dramatically when I started meditating every single day. And, specifically, when I started meditating before sunrise, uhm– everything changed. You know, I used to be up until 2 in the morning, working. I’m a total workaholic.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Dr. Kelly Brogan: I wake up everyday dying into this work. I love this work. I– I would do it for free, forever. You know, this is what I’m here to do. But, I would work ‘til two in the morning regularly. And you know, in New York, that’s– it’s the culture here.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. [crosstalk] Hustle and bustle.
Dr. Kelly Brogan: Totally. Exactly. Totally sanctioned. So, you know, I uhm– When I started meditating at 5:30 in the morning everyday, which I started after in the setting of grief uhm– you know, after my mentor died. It’s the hardest thing I’ve ever dealt with…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Dr. Kelly Brogan: …in my life.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Roger that.
Dr. Kelly Brogan: I was desperate.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Dr. Kelly Brogan: Yeah. I was totally desperate, and I did it. The nest day, I woke up and I have never missed a day since. Uhm– but, if you’re waking at 5:30, you can’t go to bed at 2:00 AM, right?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.
Dr. Kelly Brogan: Or you’re gonna be in trouble [inaudible]
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.
Dr. Kelly Brogan: So now, I go to bed at nine. Do you know how revolutionary that is for a New Yorker…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s amazing.
Dr. Kelly Brogan: ….to go at bed at 9:00 PM? And– and you would think, “Oh, I’m missing– you know, what is that?– five hours of productivity.”
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.
Dr. Kelly Brogan: Like, how do I even keep my business afloat. Uhm– but my performance– and again, sort of alignment with– just things unfolding, everything happens exactly, you know, the moment I need to. I don’t need to drive this ship. You know, that’s one of the sort of secret pearls in self-care that you wouldn’t otherwise believe unless you’ve had the experience. So, i’m a big believer in foregrounding self-care as being really my only responsibility. All I have to do every single day is make sure that I have committed, again, to taking care of my self. And the rest is gonna. Is gonna be exactly how it needs to be.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very cool. So, I think I missed it. What was breakfast again, typically, for you?
Dr. Kelly Brogan: So, I have this uhm– smoothie often. It’s so funny because sometimes I’ll write a blog that I, you know, spend weeks and weeks and weeks researching. It’s like, you know, ten, 15, 20, 30…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Dr. Kelly Brogan: …represent it. And like four people will read it, right?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mhmmn.
Dr. Kelly Brogan: And then, one day, I just decided to write uh– the ingredients of the smoothie that I put uh– together. Okay, it’s like egg yolks, coconut oil, uh– plus/minus coconut oil. Uhm– nut butter, frozen organic cherries. It’s collagen powder, uhm– coconut water.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Dr. Kelly Brogan: Just, yeah. Basic– basic stuff, but it’s not a green smoothie, right? Uhm– it’s not a ton of Kale and Spinach or anything like that. And it was– It’s like, to this day, the most viral thing I’ve ever written. [laughs] It’s just breakfast, [crosstalk] right?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it.
Dr. Kelly Brogan: Because if you struggle with blood sugar stuff, like I did, uhm– like many of the people I work with do, It’s like, within the day resolution. Like within one day, you can turn that around. You’ll feel what it is to put, you know– It’s two tablespoons of ghee. Put that much fat into your body for breakfast is an unusual thing uhm– for most people, and it tastes delicious and you actually feel full for some times, double-triple the amount you would have otherwise. So, that’s why I’m actually big– I’m glad you asked– big believer in just beginning with changing your breakfast. Like if you are not ready for the rest of it, just start with there. And see…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Huge.
Dr. Kelly Brogan: …how different you can feel.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I love it.
Dr. Kelly Brogan: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: ‘Cause stabilizing that blood sugar is so important. ‘Cause when your blood sugar goes on highs and lows, you get the Hyperinsulinism, which is gonna create all kinds of problems in your hormones. If you’re a woman, it will turn you into a man, uh– by getting the PCOS stuff going, and if you’re a man, it will turn you into a woman by upregulating aromatase. So, you have that side of the fence. And the blood sugar swings. When they go low, you’re gonna get a lot of Cortisol and Adrenaline, which can create mood issues and create that anxiety and that may be the reason why you’re on the Xanax. [crosstalk] So the other moods stabilizes, right?
Dr. Kelly Brogan: Exactly. [crosstalk] You said it so I don’t have to. That’s exactly it. It’s powerful. I mean, I have patients who’d have six panic attacks a day. They’ve had three medications heading to Electroconvulsive Therapy. And all that was going on was Dysglycemia.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Huge. [crosstalk] Huge. Now we have these cells in our brain, also called the glial cells, and a great portion of the cells in our brain are actually immune cells, which is interesting. And once these cells get activated from stress or inflammation– it’s like positive feedback loop. It just gets more and more and more. Uhm– what do you do to help decrease brain inflammation? I think you’ll talk about the gut, but is there anything you do supplementally to help decrease that brain inflammation?
Dr. Kelly Brogan: Yeah. So that’s where I am a big believer in this multi-pronged approach, right?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hmmn.
Dr. Kelly Brogan: Because, if we’re– if we’re looking at an anti-inflammatory diet, the typical template of a diet I recommend is not gonna be any major surprise uhm– to anyone– but, the Vegans probably, because it’s uh– you know, a classical sort of ancestral diet. You know…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Dr. Kelly Brogan: It was animal food. You know, the nuts and seeds– all vegetables…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Dr. Kelly Brogan: I restrict resistant starch for the first month. Uhm–
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: like a Paleo template, basically.
Dr. Kelly Brogan: It’s a Paleo template, basically. Includes, uhm– some starchy vegetables, but not uh– white potatoes. So, just to restricting…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Nitrates.
Dr. Kelly Brogan: …they always– Nitrates are included, so tomatoes are fine. Eggplants are fine. You know, mushrooms are…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Just the potatoes, okay.
Dr. Kelly Brogan: Just the white potatoes. And uhm– and you know, otherwise, my patients do always reintroduce things like white rice, gluten-free grains, uh– legumes. So, it’s not a long-term Paleo diet. It’s just restricted for that first month. Uhm– so that we can understand what resistant starch does to your microbiome, basically, because when you reintroduce potatoes– Do you have gas and bloating? You know, Are you super tired after you eat white rice? We just want to know that, right, for these potent starches. Otherwise it’s not that uhm– dramatic, but it is– just have this anti-inflammatory effect, ecologically rebouncing at the gut level. And then the meditation components, I just think, as one of the meditations I often recommend is called Kirtan Kriya Carer or _____[18:13]. It’s been studied in randomized trials, actually, for changes in brain level profusion. Uhm– and the subjective outcomes in terms of resolution of cognitive impairment and Dementia patients, who we have nothing to offer, you know, on a pharmaceutical level. So, literally, all they did was 11 minutes of this meditation every single day.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmn.
Dr. Kelly Brogan: So, i’m a big believer in the potential of this ancient technologies to send that signal of safety at the brain level. And then, of course, you know, when you’re engaging in detoxification– even if it’s as simple as taking the pesticides out of your diet.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Dr. Kelly Brogan: Uh– You know, we’re fundamentally changing the way the immune system is being triggered. And as you said, you know, we have evidence that from a gut level, and also from a psychosocial stress level, we could mobilize the immune system in the– in the systemic circulation. That then tracks back to the brain. And like you said, kicks off that alarm. You know, when i was in med school, we don’t even know that the brain had an immune system. We thought that it was a privilege region.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s crazy.
Dr. Kelly Brogan: We didn’t know that what’s inside of the brain. You know, we’re just discovering basic anatomy, still, at this point. So, it’s important to work with the tools that do the least harm.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Very good. Now, I’ve seen you write this, and I may be off in a little bit. I’ll just throw it out there and you can correct me.
Dr. Kelly Brogan: [nods]
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You know, you’ve talked about the brain-gut connection with mood. Now, being a functional medicine physician, I’m addressing everything: diet, lifestyle, blood sugar, [crosstalk] all the body system, hormone, detox. So, we’re never ever putting in on one magic pill.
Dr. Kelly Brogan: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: But as we fix things, I do see certain amino acid nutrients with certain nutrients, like B6, and certain B vitamins. I have seen that significantly helped a lot of people on the mood side, not every time. So, I know the SSRIs and some of these medications, we think they work by just blocking reuptake of some of these chemicals but that may not be the case. So, what’s your take on the amino acids? I do see benefits, but I know, you–you’ve talked differently about that.
Dr. Kelly Brogan: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Things like 5-HTP, tyrosine, ___[20:09], L-dopa; those kind of things.
Dr. Kelly Brogan: Exactly.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah [inaudible].
Dr. Kelly Brogan: Yeah. You know, listen. I am a passionate supporter of natural medicine. You know, and there are many, many, many, many different approaches. Uh– I mean I had patients who’d come– not patients. I know of people who come up of psychiatric medications using flower remedies. So…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmn.
Dr. Kelly Brogan: …you know, i know that there is not one path here. And that’s the beautiful thing. Uh– but, in my approach, I use no supplements at all for the first month.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmn.
Dr. Kelly Brogan: Uhm– when– I don’t begin medications taper, for the first month either. So, in a context of medication taper, then I actually do use amino acids. Uhm–
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmn.
Dr. Kelly Brogan: I use things uh– you know, the ones you’ve mentioned in particular as a compliment to the purported mechanism of the given medication, and I aIways use a general mix of amino acids. And I find them to facilitate the process. Uhm– I don’t use any supplements as a replacement for medication because it’s not the contraces we’re going for, right? We’re going for uhm— you know, trusting the body, trusting it’s uhm– responses, curiosity about what the body is meaning to tell you. And then also working through a lot of uhm– sort of indoctrinated fear around emotions like, you know, deep sadness, rage, grief– You know, this kind of pain that we are uhm– not, in any way, making space for. You know, to– to investigate with any degree of curiosity because, you know– one of the greatest uh– most meaningful lessons I’ve learned is that on the other side of that process of personal encounter with your deepest, darkest uhm– experience of your mind and body, is a kind of expansive, you know, exposure to these exalted emotions: gratitude, joy…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Huge.
Dr. Kelly Brogan: …even bliss. You know, that becomes available to you when you have the courage to sort of walk through that dark night. So that is a big part of my uh– approach.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, some free-form amino acids which is great. What do you do with adaptogenic herbs? I mean, I use Ashwagandha a lot. I find that really help modulate Cortisol, which can thus help along with anxiety and even sleep. What’s your take on adaptogens, and what are your top three favorites?
Dr. Kelly Brogan: Uhm– I would say, I have a top one favorite. [laughs]
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay.
Dr. Kelly Brogan: Because I’m a big Rhodiola fan.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhh– love it.
Dr. Kelly Brogan: And had been for many years. And it’s one of my first introductions to the power of herbal– you know, herbal approaches and herbal medicine, personally. And, You know, I find that it’s a really powerful compliment, not only to support in cognition at the time when many of my patients have been injured by medications on the cognitive front, uhh– but also that inevitable, you know, exposure to stress. I think it’s a really magical plant to dance with. So, I’m a big fan of it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: What about nutrients? And I say, BC– uh– B6, or P5P, Pyridoxal-5-Phospate, really essential for helping these neurotransmitters activate. What’s your take on the most important nutrients for you that you see makes the biggest bank for your back and also a B6, too.
Dr. Kelly Brogan: Mm– I– I would– In my experience, the most profound single nutrient– because, you know, most of us do offer that as uh– you know, sort of a compliment…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmn–
Dr. Kelly Brogan: Uhm– in– in the entire birth.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.
Dr. Kelly Brogan: But the one that I had the most miraculous outcomes with is actually B12.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes. Huge.
Dr. Kelly Brogan: And, you know, through my work with Nick Gonzalez, I’ve had a better ability to contextualize why– that is, in the patients that I work with. They are what he would call parasympathetic dominance, and so they respond especially well to animal-based nutrients, particularly white B12. You know there are cases in the literature of one woman, in particular, who was diagnosed as uhm– having psychotic depression. She was given Electrocompulsive Therapy…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.
Dr. Kelly Brogan: …and uh– multiple medications, and all that she was going on was a B12 deficiency. So, I actually used– have my patients inject themselves uhm– with something like a Hydroxyvaline in a pretty generous dose. Sometimes like 5mg, sometimes several times a week uh– initially, which is obviously considered to be rather aggressive. But uh– it seems to be, you know, quite effective in a short period of time, particularly for uh– you know, cognitive and energy-related impairments.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You know, Dr. Brownstein’s also a big form of the hydroxyl form. Why do you like the hydroxyls so much– let’s say, over the methyl or the adenosyl?
Dr. Kelly Brogan: Uhm– I had– I started with a Methocarbamol form.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Dr. Kelly Brogan: I just had a couple patients who uh– felt overly activated by it. You know, like whose are wired by it. And– and again, I’m using large doses, so it could have just been that. Uhm– so I– the hydroxyl form is just a– a way to thread the needle, you know, for those patients who might be susceptible to the– the methyl as [inaudible].
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And then, do you have any opinion on GABA as well? You know, some people say the molecule’s too big to cross the blood-brain barrier. Others are coming out with liposomal forms. What’s your take on GABA?
Dr. Kelly Brogan: Yeah. I have gone very comfortable using a form called PharmaGABA. [crosstalk] It’s a–
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: PharmaGABA, yeah.
Dr. Kelly Brogan: Yeah. Fermented…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: The science got it.
Dr. Kelly Brogan: …form
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Dr. Kelly Brogan: Yeah. And, you know, it’s uh– when it works, it works. And who knows if that’s, you know, Placebo. Otherwise, I don’t really care, because if it’s as benign as it is, I’ll apply that Placebo Effect all day long. But I, It’s a fan favorite– you know, of my patients, uh– particularly during the process of moving through a medication taper. It’s a very important uhm– tool.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And then, when you’re dealing with people that are on these medications, whether they’re Benzos or SSRIs, or even Lithium and such. How are you dealing, like– Does every– Can everyone have the ability to get of those medications at some point, and who are the patients you don’t want to like take them off. Where it’s really you got to be super, super slow.
Dr. Kelly Brogan: Mm– Well, it’s my passionate belief that every single person should be offered the opportunity to come up with psychiatric medications.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Dr. Kelly Brogan: I’ll even go farther to say all medications, period. What the most critical ingredient is uhm– is the mindset, right?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Dr. Kelly Brogan: So, believe that it’s possible. It’s the readiness to commit uh– to lifestyle, medicine and to self-care. Uhm– which, of course confers the type of empowerment that’s very necessary to move you out of the dependent and helpless position that you are put in as a psychiatric patient. Uhm– but I had taken patients off of– you know I have videos of my website to prove this, so to speak. I’m publishing cases in the purity of literature. Uh– taking patients of up to medications they’ve been on for 25 years. Uhm– I have patients with histories of Schizophrenia, psychotic mania, suicidal depression. And over and over and over again, they’re shedding their diagnosis and they’re completely and totally off medication. I have yet to fail. Uhm– and I don’t expect to. But, I always screen my patients. I have a very skew population, because of these two criteria– the mindset and the belief.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. And then, we’ll put a disclaimer. We don’t want anyone getting after uhm– psychiatric medication on their own. We want them to go back to the Prescribing Physician. But on average– just in general, are you typically tapering off about one to two-month timeframe? Is that generally, where you’re at?
Dr. Kelly Brogan: Oh, wow. No. It can be years.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, years or so?
Dr. Kelly Brogan: I’m glad you asked, because…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Good.
Dr. Kelly Brogan: I think I forget sometimes that that’s not uhm– you know, uh– an assumption. So, I don’t touch uh– medication until my patients, in my online program– until they have gone through this month-long commitment.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.
Dr. Kelly Brogan: Meditation, detox and diet. Literally, I won’t touch it. It’s a total requirement. Because I used to do it before I require that, and it was kind of a nice idea. We’ll start looking at your diet now. It’s non-negotiable. Okay? So, that happens first, and then the taper is around 10 to 20 percent of the total dose per month is a typical pace. So, it depends on…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it.
Dr. Kelly Brogan: …what you’re taking. It’s one medication at a time. The process can take years. And, you know what? If you want it to last, and you want it to be a permanently chaptered for you, you have a right with that. You know, because it’s an investment in this being, not just a revolving door where you’re back on meds in a couple of months. Uh– but I– I absolutely do not recommend that anyone consider coming off medications, particularly until they have uh– initiated this kind of self-care and physical healing regiment. And you know, in my program, I have an entire module dedicated to tapering, because it’s not a science, unfortunately. Uhm– and there are very few practitioners who know how to do it. And that’s why patients actually become more educated. Then their provided about how to do it. Uhm– it’s a bit of the wild west at this point.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And, is that course over at kellybroganmd.com?
Dr. Kelly Brogan: Yes! We– It’s called, Vital Mind Reset.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Vital Mind Reset. We’ll put all the links below. We’ll put the links to the Amazon Book as well, “A Mind of Your Own.” So, everyone that’s listening and finding value. Go support Dr. Kelly by getting that book. That’s great. Now, one last thing here before I let you go, Dr. Kelly. Uh– when I use certain amino acid with patients, even some of the free-forms, I’ll start to notice the patient is starting to have some of the– the side effects, as if the drug’s too much. Do you see that at all? And then, do you start to gradually taper if those higher side effects from the amino acids are making the drug work better? Do you notice that at all?
Dr. Kelly Brogan: That uhm– is possible. I don’t often encounter that for whatever reason, uh– but that’s absolutely possible. And in fact there’s a proprietary formula called uhm– EMPowerplus by TrueHope. It may [inaudible]
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes. TrueHope, yeah.
Dr. Kelly Brogan: Yeah. And, you know, they counsel about that– you know, that it’s very possible that in the setting of uh– nutrient repletion, that medication could become actually almost quasi-toxic uh– so that you would need to begin to ramp down on the dose of medication at that point. So, it’s– it’s highly possible and that’s an incredible reminder. You know, that nutrients are– are very powerful uhm– tools to be used with strategy.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Awesome, Dr. kelly. I think you’re changing the world. I appreciate you coming on the show. Last question for you, “If you’re on a desert island and you can only bring one nutrient, one supplement, one herb– whatever it is, what would that be for you?
Dr. Kelly Brogan: Oh, turmeric, of course. [laughs]
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Turmeric. Okay. Got it. [crosstalk] Crucumin?
Dr. Kelly Brogan: Yeah, Crucumin.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Can [inaudible] can the anti-inflammatory on?
Dr. Kelly Brogan: It’s everything. You know, it’s like a miracle. It’s a miracle herb, and you know the research on it, of course had– had my skeptical mind convinced. You know, with the catalog research on Crucumin, which is one isolate of this…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.
Dr. Kelly Brogan: …very complex herb, is astounding. You know, head to head against medications like Cox-2 Inhibitors, antidepressants. It’s extraordinary. So, I think of it as a, you know, the– the power performer, for sure.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I love it. Now, is there anything else you want to let the listeners to know? Any new books, products, online things coming out for you that people should be aware of?
Dr. Kelly Brogan: No. Just you know that we’re here to support your journey. If any of these is resident, it is one hundred percent possible for you. I see it every single day. And so, just to make sure that I plant that seed of potential. And oh, you know, we’re here to support. We have tons of free information on this site, and of course, greater uhm– complex products if needed.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And let’s hear those links one more time. kellybroganmd.com– the second one was?
Dr. Kelly Brogan: That’s it. You know…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay.
Dr. Kelly Brogan: …all the information’s there. So let’s just keep it simple.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And then the book– if you guys love it, go get that book on Amazon. Dr. Kelly, we really appreciate you coming on the show.
Dr. Kelly Brogan: Thank you so much.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Awesome. Take care.
“Vital Mind Reset Program,” by Dr. Kelly Brogan
New York Times bestselling book, “A Mind of Your Own” by Dr. Kelly Brogan
“Increase your Brain Health by Changing Your Breakfast: The KB Smoothie” by Dr. Kelly Brogan
https://www.truehope.com/effectiveness/ingredients EMPowerplus by TrueHope
9 Ways to Fix Your Gut Flora
By Dr. Justin Marchegiani
What is Your ‘Gut Flora’?
There is a whole community–a whole universe–living within our intestinal tract. Roughly two pounds of microbes live in and on our bodies; the vast majority of these are located in our gut. With this many guests setting up camp inside of us, we must take precautions, just as we would if we were hosting guests in our homes, to ensure we are only inviting good company.
How Your Gut Flora Affects Your Health
Our gut flora is responsible for more than you might realize. It can cause cravings, impact our mood, and affect allergies and food intolerances. By keeping our gut bacteria balanced, we can control how fast our metabolism works, boost our energy, prevent disease, and extract more nutrients from our food. If you don’t have a healthy gut balance, your immune system will be severely compromised. Poor gut health is tied to many health issues and diseases, including:
- Asthma and allergies
- Autoimmune diseases (arthritis, IBS)
- Cognitive decline (Alzheimer’s, dementia)
- Fatigue and brain fog
- Fungal overgrowth
- Gluten sensitivity and other food allergies and intolerances
- Learning disabilities (ADHD)
- Mood disorders (anxiety, depression): The human body has a “second brain” that we are just starting to learn about, located in the gut. Breakthroughs in science are being made on how the trillions of bacteria in our gut— the microbiome— communicate with the neurons in our gut lining. This effectively means the bacteria living inside of our intestines have an effect on our mood! Science is showing depression, anxiety, and other mood disorders are linked to the microbiome.
- Parasitic infections
- Small intestinal bacterial overgrowth (SIBO)
- Type 1 diabetes
Just as bad bacteria negatively affect your health, good bacteria have a positive influence on your health! Good gut flora assists in the following ways:
- Gut flora is responsible for helping your body absorb and store nutrients, like vitamin B.
- It produces vital nutrients. For example, your body doesn’t store or produce vitamin K, and the food you eat can only provide you with a little of what you need. Luckily, your gut flora produces the majority of the vitamin K you require, and since your body isn’t good at storing vitamin K, it’s crucial that your gut flora is always producing more for you!
- Good bacteria keep the walls of your intestines strong and prevent you from developing leaky gut.
- Balanced gut flora trains your immune cells to fight inflammation.
- Good gut flora is energy-efficient. Having an imbalanced (“bad”) gut flora means your body has to hold on to more food to get the same amount of energy, which causes more food to be stored as fat. On the flip side, if your gut flora is in good shape, you get maximal energy out of the food you eat and excrete what’s left over!
Nine Ways to Fix Your Gut
We’ve seen how gut flora is responsible for keeping us healthy or making us sick. How can we make our gut stronger? Here are 9 ways to fix your gut flora!
- Reduce or cut your sugar intake: Sugar is one of the bad bacteria’s favorite foods!
- Avoid inflammatory foods: Some studies have shown that fats and oils ruin your health, but this research studied diets comprised largely of refined vegetable oils, such as soybean oil. On the other hand, grass-fed butter, organic coconut oil, and extra-virgin olive oil have been shown to promote a healthy gut flora and aid in weight loss!
- Eat a variety of healthy foods: Eating a wide range of healthy foods ensures we have a diverse microbe population, which is very important!
- Eat vegetables with every meal: If you can fill half your plate with vegetables and plant-based foods, your good bacteria will have plenty of fiber and nutrition to feast on and use to boost your health!
- Choose organic: Not only are GMOs and toxic pesticides are bad for our microbiome, they also affect the soil they’re grown in, and our gut bacteria and the bacteria in the soil are related.
- Eat prebiotic rich food: Sweet potatoes, asparagus, and other prebiotic foods feed the good guys!
- Incorporate fermented foods into your diet: Sauerkraut, kombucha, kefir, and pickles are all delicious fermented foods.
- Take prebiotics and probiotics: The use of pre- and probiotics feed the good bacteria that keep your gut healthy.
- Take steps to lower your stress: Try meditation, yoga, a walk or a jog, or partaking in your favorite hobby to reduce your stress. Studies have shown that stress can actually negatively affect the composition of your gut flora!
The state of your gut is responsible for both your physical and mental health. Luckily, even if your gut is in bad shape, it is easily remedied by following the nine steps listed above. The good bacteria are always ready to move back in, all you have to do is provide them with the right environment.
Optimizing Your Functional Medicine Gut Program – Dr. J Live Podcast #164
In today’s video, Dr. Justin Marchegiani and Evan Brand discuss the topic of creating a functional medicine toolbox for your gut health. Learn about the natural ways to modify your diet, improve your digestion, and promote your overall gut health. Watch and listen as they reveal some of the tools in the trade.
Discover some protocols that help aid problems with gut fungus, yeast overgrowth and infection, gut bacteria issues and parasites in your digestive system. Learn about the different steps to take on how to ensure you’re taking the right path for better gut health. Also, stay tuned for more information about how to further catch some knowledge bombs from this functional medicine duo.
In this episode, we cover:
03:30 Looking at the Food
04:23 Digestive Support
06:10 Silver in the Killing Phase
09:47 Probiotics and Antibiotic Therapy
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey there! It’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani. Evan Brand, what’s going on, man? How are things?
Evan Brand: Happy Monday. Life is good. The sun’s gone, though. That’s sad. This time of the year just— gonna start that gray sky, so I’m kind of jealous. I’m sure it’s sunny in Texas right now.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s a little cloudy out here today, but I was actually in Lake Austin yesterday, water skiing. I got a new suit. It’s about a three-four millimeter kind of thickness suit, so it’s great. I go in the water, doing pretty good. I’ve got some little booties, too, that are neo-printed, and some gloves. The worst thing was the week before. I didn’t have the gloves— is you really— you know— ‘cause when you’re squeezing really hard, right? You kind of squeeze a lot of that blood out, right? You kind of like— you know, white knuckled, so to speak. You don’t have a lot of blood, so your hands get really cold with the air. So those new gloves made a huge difference
Evan Brand: Well, that’s awesome.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. How’re things going on with you?
Evan Brand: Things were good. You know, the baby’s running around and keeping me busy. She basically stole half of my lunch. She took all my carrots and almost stolen my peas, so that’s a lot of fun. You know, tweaking her diet. We just actually ran a GI Map on her. So, we’ll make it to Stool Test back. We’ll have to uhh— chat about what’s on there— Actually, no! I take that back. We got the results. She had Klebsiella on there. So, that’s pretty interesting.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Awesome, dude. I got my dog, Butter, here on the YouTube if you guys want to see her. Butter (kisses the dog). We love good healthy fats, that’s why we named her Butter. Uhm— but yeah— so, we’re in the same place. Aden’s doing really good, breastfeeding like crazy. He’s starting to sleep a little bit more, so we’re really excited about that. Really happy your daughter’s going good, too.
Evan Brand: What do you think about the Klebsiella with her? I mean, we’re using some herbs already. It’s like, at her age it makes you wonder. Did she pick up Klebsiella from somewhere? Did she have it? Was that passed through the placenta? I mean, it makes you wonder, her being that young.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I mean, I would say off the bat, uhm— probably something from your wife? From you guys? And, I would utilize some probiotics and, maybe, one oil of Oregano Capsule a day, or something like that, or maybe decent to help. Keep it really low, though. [crosstalk] But use more probiotics. Anything else?
Evan Brand: We’re doing that tincture, I was telling you about, that’s got the uh—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: … I think it’s got the…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. [crosstalk] good one [silence]. That’s a great one. I like that.
Evan Brand: [inaudible] …worked it out. But anyhow— So, I’m sure we can do a whole podcast on that, but I figured, today, you and I should chat about creating a protocol. You know, if you’re trying to create a functional medicine toolbox for gut health, what would that look like? In that could involve things that could help with fungus, yeast, bacteria and parasites. We’ve hit on parasites and— you know, the influence of thyroid health and adrenal health. And we’ve hit on the link between parasites and leaky gut, and leaky gut and autoimmunity. So now, I feel like it’d be good for us to— you know, reveal some of the tools of the trade, which you’ve already mention one, which is the Oregano. So maybe let’s go into the order of operations first. Let’s talk about what comes first, like in this whole Functional Medicine approach. ‘Cause some people, they think probiotics are just be used anytime. And prebiotics, you can just throw them in. But really, there’s a— there’s a Science and there’s an order to herbs. Probiotics may not be the first thing that you should look at for an adult.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I know. I uh— I hundred percent agree with that. So, first things first is looking at the foods. If we have certain foods that are more offending and more inflammatory, that’s gonna potentially create the— the breeding ground on which bacteria can overgrow. There’s lots of different bacteria that can grow, so— I mean, we have more of our pathogenic type or Klebsiella, or Proteus, or Citrobacter, rella— or Morganella. These are our dysbiotic bacteria, not so good. They produce toxins in our body. They can eat up B vitamins. They can prevent our good bacteria from producing nutrition. So, of course, we want to make sure those things are under control. We will look at the foods first. Keep the inflammatory foods down. I think, potentially, in your daughter’s situation. They may have been some foods, they may have been slipping in some, like kind of pseudo-Paleo foods, potentially. [crosstalk] What food were you slipping in for her?
Evan Brand: Well, so we were doing the rice flour.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Rice flour? [crosstalk] Yep.
Evan Brand: Rice flour and also, there was some Tapioca starch and some of these like dried veggie snacks. They had Tapioca in there. So I’m thinking because, remember, I showed you that she had a small rash into her eye.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: [inaudible] … improving?
Evan Brand: It’s gone.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And what food change did you make?
Evan Brand: The rice flour. We took it out.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think there’s a gluten-sensitivity component there. So, I think [crosstalk] once you get that better, the gut bacteria will get better. So then, once that’s better, you know, looking at digestive support— so if they’re kiddos— I mean, you know, what can you do? So, typically, we’ll do like uhm— We’ll do some enzyme wafers that are really easy to chew and taste pretty good, for the little kiddos, they can eat.
Evan Brand: Is there any good brands? ‘Cause I looked at some, and it looked like a lot of them had fructose in there, added.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I mean, I like the Vitalzym’s chewables.
Evan Brand: Okay.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s a pretty good one. If they can swallow a pill, Then we’d maybe have them do an HCL enzyme combo if they can get a pill. If they can’t, I’ll do a wafer.
Evan Brand: Ah— okay.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I would do that, and uhm— just really making sure they chew their food up really well. Uh— and then— you know, just cutting out the inflammatory food. So that would be my first two steps right there. And, I would even maybe do a smoothie for one meal a day and really just add some extra aminos, add some extra nutrients in there. So, it kind of gives her digestive system a break for at least one meal.
Evan Brand: That’s a genius idea. Did you know that the Vitalzym chewable has the DPP4 in there. So that would be great [crosstalk] if there is a cross-contamination issue going on.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And that would be helpful. And the chewable— those taste pretty decent, too. Had a couple of kids— Yeah— fed them a couple dozen at least the last few years, do well with those. So, I like those, a lot. And then the next step is, you know, the Killing Phase. We kind of talked about, you know, the foods. We talked about enzyme support. Maybe we add them some gut-healing nutrients. Maybe we add them some collagen peptides. Maybe we add them some L-Glutamine to keep it really simple for the kiddos. Maybe we just put that in our morning shake. A couple of blueberries or berries, maybe a nice scoop of collagen or pea protein to keep it more hypoallergenic, maybe some coconut milk or MCT for some extra good fats, maybe we add some extra L-Glutamine— or like in my Lyme, we use like a GI Restore, some extra healing, soothing mucilaginous herbs, like Aloes, Slippery Elm, DGL Licorice; all very healthy and soothing. And then maybe we start the killing in a month or two later. We could start even with just like a teaspoon of Silver. Right? Twice a day, for your daughter who’s younger, right? Something very, very small. Maybe do one oil of Oregano Pearl, once a day. And over [crosstalk] Yeah.
Evan Brand: Talk more about the Silver. I mean, there’s antimicrobial benefits. I believe there’s antiparasitic benefits, possibly.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I mean, Silver is proven to help with biofilms. They’re actually— My mom’s still a surgical nurse. She’s been a surgical nurse for like 45 years, and she has even— The last couple of years, they are actually adding in a Silver wrap. So, when they do like a total hip or a total knee, they’re actually wrapping the whole joint with this like Aluminum-foil-like thing, but it’s Silver. And they wrapped the joint before they closed it in that, uhm— to prevent, basically uhm— bac— antibiotic or just some bacteria coming from coming in.
Evan Brand: And that stays in?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: No, it dissolves.
Evan Brand: Oh, it dissolves. [crosstalk] That’s cool.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s kind of like a cellophane thing that kind of dissolves. They do it— this one called Seprafilm. They put over like— you know, they do a surgery to prevent scar tissues. So, it’s similar to that. It’s kind of like a cellophane-thin kind of thing they wrap. Not sure of it’s up against the joint directly or if it’s around the fascia and the skin. I’m not sure about that. But it’s definitely enclosed around that joint for sure, to help with the biofilms and the resistant bacteria. Conventional medicine’s getting on board. And they have to, because they have a lot of problems with antibiotic-resistant bacteria. So, they kind of have to.
Evan Brand: Yeah, the C. diff, the MRSA. I’ve even heard of antifungal-resistant. Like this species of Candida diflucan and these other prescriptions aren’t working for even the yeast anymore. They’re— The yeast are evolving and getting too smart. Luckily, in our toolbox, we’re not using pharmaceuticals. We’re using herbs. And in this case, you know, if we’re talking about Candida, you mentioned the silver— We can use Silver against Candida, too. The Oregano can be against Candida. The garlic can be another good choice.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup, exactly. And there’s some liquid garlic options that we could always give her, too, as well. And then we could do some of the oil of Oregano. I like them ‘cause they’re smaller in pearl. So, like in my GI Clear 5 line, we have that, where we use the emulsified 75 percent Carvacrol extract, so it’s very potent. And it’s a pretty small uh— pearl, so typically, that’s easier to get down. And you can do that with the kiddo. You can do the Silver like I mentioned. And then we could always do some liquid garlic. So, those will be like kind of my options for kids that really had a hard time with pills, off the bat.
Evan Brand: Let’s chat about some statistics. I’ve seen kids as young as one, two, three, four years old, and they have infections, parasites, bacterial problems, a lot of Candida problems. ‘Cause the kids were unfortunately exposed to antibiotics early on, and now they’ve got a massive systemic yeast overgrowth.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. So, of course, anytime you have to use antibiotics. ‘Cause there may be sometimes— you know, you’re scared as a mom or dad, right? You’re like, “Oh my gosh! She’s getting out of control.” Number one, like have some things in your medicine cabinet like the Silver. You know, you could do even some ginger capsules is good, or some higher-dosed ginger tea if you can’t get that downward. It’s gonna be great. Of course, keeping the sugar out. But if we uhm— had to come at it with some probiotics during the killing, we can always add in some probiotics, some powder probiotics, and some saccharomyces boulardii. And we can put it in— in their drink, right? We can get them to have a nice little smoothie. We that in there. Or we could just mix it in, maybe their Kombucha or something. Or we could just come up with some kind of a drink they like and put it in there. That could be some really good options during the killing, and of course, we would do it after for at least one or two months.
Evan Brand: So, what do you think about Probiotics. I mean, some of the training I’ve seen and some of the protocols recommend probiotics during a killing phase and then some protocols don’t recommend probiotics. I mean, it— like—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It depends. There is some research showing that probiotics during antibiotic therapy can actually be beneficial. And again, most conventional antibiotic therapies don’t go longer than two weeks. So, I’m not that worried about it ‘cause we’re gonna be giving probiotics afterwards for at least two months. So, I’m not worried about if we want to go do it for two weeks. Do the probiotics while we do the antibiotics. I’m okay with it, especially if you have digestive issues. And let’s say the probiotics really helped and they’re soothing. Maybe they help keep you regular. Maybe you have a history of a lot of rebound yeast overgrowths ‘cause of post antibiotic therapy in the past, then I would. If you don’t, then I would just wait until afterwards. I don’t think you can go wrong if you do. Some people, they have histories of just antibiotics or let’s just say probiotics causing a lot of bloating and gas. And if that’s the case, and I’d probably wait. Yeah. May use some different strains. May use some coil or spore-like strains, or just doing it after the antibiotics. A lot of that flora’s gonna be knocked down. So, maybe the probiotics are more tolerable after that as well.
Evan Brand: And the same thing would apply for just straight herbs. If you were just doing straight herbal protocol. Sometimes, you’re gonna use probiotics during the killing. Sometimes, you’re not. Or you’re always using.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh— I only use probiotics during the killing, if we’re on a repeat protocol, like if we retested and we have new infections or other factions, just because I want to prevent any rebound overgrowth from happening
Evan Brand: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Just kind of where you knock them out of the floor down. You even knocked the good stuff back, but we all know, if you do weeding in the garden, you never have to go back and purposefully plant weeds, right? Weeds automatically grow.
Evan Brand: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, it’s kind of like that. We’re just kind of throwing down extra seeds during the process to take up the space that maybe those weeds would take. So, it’s kind of like a preventative thing, as well as— It can have benefits with inflammation and it can have benefits with regularity and motility as well.
Evan Brand: That’s good advise. And also, too. You and I see the Beta-glucuronidase enzyme on the Stool Test that we’re running. And if that enzyme is elevated, that could mean your recirculating your toxins and hormones and drugs and stuff like that. And one good way that we can get Beta-glucuronidase back down into normal range is probiotics. So, I love that you bring up [inaudible]—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Also— We can also use phages, too. Phages have some really good beneficial effects at knocking down that bacteria. And then, you know, depending on how regular you are, we can even slide in some activated charcoal, too. Some activated charcoal or some like Modified Citrus Pectin, trying to act like a little sponge and soak up a lot of the crap that are maybe sitting around your gut from all that bacteria.
Evan Brand: When would you make the call on that? Would that be like if you have a ton of bacterial infections plus parasites, they could try to treat five or six things at once? Like what if it was just H. pylori? Are you gonna hit the charcoal or not?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Depends on the person’s resilience. If they have a lot of fatigue, and they have a history of being more sensitive, or they have a history of lots of antibiotics and like they tell me like— you have like, in the past, antibiotics have really wiped me out, or I’m just really tired or if in fatigue, then maybe I would add in preventatively. I they’re pretty— like if energy’s pretty decent, then I would say, “Let’s wait and see.”
Evan Brand: Yep. .
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: …wait and see. But it’s something that’s always there, you know. Kind of undecked so to speak. So if we need to go, we can go to it. Of course, then one of the first things we can do is ginger tea, ‘cause ginger really helps the lymphatic systems. It’s very anti-inflammatory. Keeps things moving. It’s also a biofilm buster, too, so it helps— it actually helps the uhm— antibiotics work better. There were studies using Silver and ginger and they found that when they used the Silver and ginger, the antibiotics actually work better. So, I tell patients, if you need to use the antibiotic, use the ginger and Silver with it. And then, you can even add in the probiotics to prevent any rebound overgrowth. That way, you get the best of both worlds.
Evan Brand: Nice. That is awesome. And then, uh— I guess the last step in our toolbox— you know, we’re talking protocol, would be another test. Because, once you go through the— you talk us through the process, removing bad foods, replacing enzymes, repairing the gut…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hmmn— hmmn.
Evan Brand: [inaudible] …infections re-inoculating probiotics. Then the last step in this whole protocol is the test itself. Retest and make sure [crosstalk] all the stuff we implemented was successful.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hundred percent, yeah. So, if we have a specific infection we’re going after, we definitely want to put in their crosshairs, we want to aim at it. And then we want to go look to that scope again and make sure we actually hit it right. That’s kind of where that lab test retest would come in. Sometimes, if it’s just insignificant smaller amounts of yeast or smaller amounts of bacteria, and there’s not any major stuff— there’s no H. pylori, there’s no like significant bacterial overgrowth, there’s significant fungal overgrowth or any parasites, then we’ll just based it off of symptomatic relief?
Evan Brand: Yup.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Is there anything significant, then I want to make sure that we retest for sure.
Evan Brand: Yeah. It’s a great point. People ask it all the time. You know— “Should I retest?” “Do I really need to retest?” Maybe. But if you feel amazing, maybe we can assume. And your hair’s better, and your skin’s better, and your nails are better— like for me, I noticed when I thought my infections were gone because my weight loss stopped. Like, my weight stabilized, but I still did the retest, ‘caused I had the Giardia, Crypto, H. pylori, Pseudomonas, Candida— I had all of it. That was just too much for me to not spend the money on the retest.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I wouldn’t give you the choice for those kinds of infections. But let’s say you had just a little bit of like yeast, or you had just a little bit of Citrobacter. It wasn’t off the charts and you didn’t have really awful symptoms, then I would probably say, “Hey, if you feel and improvement, that’s good.”
Evan Brand: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I would say, “Let’s just keep you in the loop to retest once a year.”
Evan Brand: So, people say, “Well, how would I know if I’m feeling good Dr. J? “ That would be things like what? If your brains working? Your…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes. [crosstalk] Everytime I— I chat with the patient, we always go over wins, challenges and corrections, diet, lifestyle, review, supplement review. So, of course, wins and challenges, what’s moving in the right direction at each appointment and what’s moving in the wrong direction. And of course, we have our baseline audit in the beginning. Patient comes in day one. Do patient exam. I got bloating. I had gas. I have diarrhea. We follow up. Make diet changes, lifestyle changes, supplement changes, how much better, what are our wins. “Oh, well. Bloating is down; 80 percent. Diarrhea is down; 90 percent.” And we continue to follow that all the way down. So each time we chat, we’re always checking in. We’re keeping our pulse on everything. I want to know exactly what we’re at, so to speak.
Evan Brand: Yep, well said. So, if those symptoms are still there, maybe the hair’s better but you still got the gas bloating. Well, could still be some yeast or bacteria going on there. Is that safe to say?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And if we’re running— Let’s say, we’re running like our GI Map or our 401H and it’s looking relatively clean, then the next place we’re gonna go is the Breath Test. We’re gonna go Breath Test next ‘cause then, there may be some bacteria on there we not necessarily are picking up. And the Breath Test is kind of more of uh— a broad general spectrum because it’s looking more of the gases that bacteria is producing. So, not necessarily the bacteria, but it just tells us that there are bacteria there, producing gases if you will.
Evan Brand: How about the [crosstalk] organic acid?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: The analogy is this, right? The analogy is this. You’re on top of the water. Is someone under the water swimming? Well, how do you know if you can’t see him? Well, you look for bubbles coming up, right? So, think of the gas that comes back on the Breath Test is like looking for bubbles on the surface trying to see if someone’s in the water.
Evan Brand: So, may I ask you this, too. What if someone’s like, “Aaaah! I don’t want to do SIBO Testing.” What about just coming in and giving some Broad Spectrum Antimicrobial Support— maybe we throw in some of the SIlver or some of the garlic?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. It depends. I mean, typically, when I’m recommending SIBO Testing, people are having more severe issues and the issues have been more chronic, and they’re just more motivated to get answers. So, it just depends, right? The more intense the symptoms are and the more chronic some thing’s been, people typically wanted to know what’s real. They want to be able to put their finger on it, so to speak. So I, typically, will recommend that. Uhm— if they said let’s just try it first, then I can get more to agree that, “Hey. if we didn’t get it to improve, then Round two.” “I don’t want to retest” I’ll try to get that negotiation moving.
Evan Brand: Yeah. So, long story short, you know— we try to base everything on labs cause if you don’t test, you’ve guessed. And we try to minimize guessing and checking ‘cause a lot of practitioners do that. We’re just not huge fans of guessing because you spend more money in the long run and the clinical outcome is not as good. Then that comes back on us. “Hey. Why didn’t it work?” “Well, ‘cause we’re shooting into the dark.”
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: . Well, also like. Let’s say, we come back. Let’s say, we did a Breath Test, right? And let’s say, hypothetically, the person was at a hundred for Hydrogen and 50 for Methane, okay? And then let’s say, we did a protocol. And let’s say those gases cut in half but they were still symptomatic. Well, does it kind of— Isn’t it nice to know that you had 50 percent improvement on some of those gases and that you’re moving in the right direction? Like, imagine you had a map, right? And— like Google map, right? And they only told you, you are on the right path once you got there.
Evan Brand: [laughs]
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, don’t you have to want a confirmation that you’re moving in the right direction, right?
Evan Brand: Yep.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s kind of how I look at it. And the more complex and the more severe someone is, the more I like that because it gives me confidence as the doctor, that we’re doing the right stuff. But the patient is doing really well and some of the things and some of the things are really working well, then sometimes uh— I’ll let that one slide. But, I’ll let them know as a caveat that if— if we go in the wrong direction that’s gonna be our Plan B. And also I want to let people know what our Plan B is, just so they don’t think like, “Uh! Well, uhm— That’s all I got. I’m a one-trick pony,” Right? So, I want to let them know we got second options and third options, so to speak.
Evan Brand: Have you used a BioHealth? I know they’ve got a SIBO. I know they talked about a lot.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s the panel I use. I use the 900 SIBO Breath Test. .
Evan Brand: Oh, okay. That’s the best one.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I like it. It’s a three-hour.
Evan Brand: Okay.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s a three-hour test, and that’s nice to see the three-hour because you can get that whole window and you can see where it transitions at two hours to three, which is nice.
Evan Brand: Awesome. And then, what do you want to see on there? I mean, does that kind of like an adrenal profile where you’re gonna have a reference range?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hmm— Yeah. We want to see Methane three or below, and we want to see Hydrogen 15 and below. Below 15, ideally.
Evan Brand: And— and— So, let me ask you this. If you have an overgrowth of good guys, you know, on the GI Map, sometimes, we’ll see the beneficial bacteria show up high. People always target these bad bacteria, but it— you can’t have too much of a good thing. If you have too many good guys, could that also show up and trigger those?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, if we’re running an Organic Acid Test, we would look at the lactate being elevated and if we saw that there, most people are gonna know because they’re gonna feel more bloated and gassy with probiotics. They’re gonna feel it. They’re gonna be more probiotic intolerant. So, we’re gonna know that, alright? There’s gonna be— you know, We’re gonna have specific symptoms that we’ll be able to see clinically. And then I would just be using more spore-based probiotics, instead.
Evan Brand: Okay.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That I’ll probably use Saccharomyces boulardii and spore-based probiotics. First is— you know, like in my line, we used like the Probioflor, which is like bifidobacteria lactobacillus. The unique thing about my Lyme is we have the Phagen. So, the phage does have some antibacterial effects and it comes from a non-dairy culture. So, a lot of people can tolerate mine. But if you’re just doing a run on the milk probiotics, and there’s no phage and— and there’s dairy in there, potentially, then there may be a problem.
Evan Brand: Yep. Yep. Well said. I think that’s it. I think we killed that one fast, but very effective. Were there any pieces to the whole protocol talk you wanted to mention?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think we hit it pretty good, man. I think we’re really on the right track. Let me just see if we got any questions. I have kept my uh— question window down. I apologize for ignoring everyone.
Evan Brand: Let me see.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We got— Oh, then we do now some questions. Let me see what’s going on here guys.
Evan Brand: Uh, Waled said that he hopes that we talk about Lyme disease treatment. Maybe we can do a whole podcast on that. I mean, Justin and I are continuing to learn more about the different protocols. There’s many protocols for Lyme.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think a lot of people with Lyme are overtreated though. I think there’s a sequence that you have to go and work through. Like if you have a cute Lyme and you came back with uh— a bull’s eye rash, or you got any tick bite and then some symptoms follow right away, definitely go after that right away. But if it’s a chronic kind of thing, you need to get everything worked through. You need to get all your hormones work through, digestion worked through, diet and lifestyle worked through, worked through all the gut stuff, worked through the detox, and then get to the Lyme later. Uhm— so, a lot of people I find, I think, are misdiagnosed. Their immune system’s so screwed up ‘cause of other things, and then they’re seeing some Lyme come back, because, of course, everything’s gonna come back. Their immune system is down, right? It’s like, you open your house up, and you got— you know, you come home one day, and there’s ten homeless people laying in the kitchen. Of course! Your house is wide open, right? [crosstalk] So, think of that as kind of like your gut when your immune system’s super low.
Evan Brand: Yep, well said. And, you know, the thing with the Lyme, antibiotics are very, very, very overused. And if you read some of the work that Steven Buhner’s put out. He’s got multiple books on this subject about antibiotics. Unfortunately, in many, many cases, for chronic Lyme, they just don’t work. And he’s seen a lot of people get sicker from the antibiotic. So, herbs, luckily Lyme and these other bacteria, they are still susceptible and allowed to be killed from herbs. Antibiotics— it’s not working.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And this is really important, too. This kind of dovetails with today’s podcast. If we do a whole bunch of killing, where does that all go? Well, it typically will and get dumped in via the hepatobiliary system and then obviously, some of the killing will happen in the gut. And then, what if our motility is not good? What if our digestion is not good? Well, it’s gonna back you up even more and you’re gonna reabsorb more of those toxins, right? So, that’s why we really want to make sure things are moving, digestion is doing good, our motility is doing good, our immune system is better. And then we have things that really help with uhm— coagulation, meaning, we’re keeping things moving. We’re not letting them— things get like static and coagulated and sticky and stuck. We want to keep it flowing.
Evan Brand: Yeah, well said. I mean, I think we may— maybe oversimplified the protocol talk, but part of that is just making sure that you’re not constipated. I mean, pretty simple, if you create all the garbage but you never take the trash out, that’s not good. You’re gonna have an overflow.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. Totally. So, couple other questions here. Thanks Monmon for sharing the live show on your Twitter. I really appreciate it. Question for me. How old I am? I am almost 34.
Evan Brand: Nice.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Almost 34. Uh— Suggestions for root canals? I would uhm— do your best to try to read Ramiel Nagel’s book. I would do oil pulling and I would do your best to try to avoid it. See natural doctor. If you have to get it, get a full extraction. There is new research or new therapies coming [crosstalk] Stem cell therapy as well. I posted a video on my YouTube and my Facebook channel about it today. Take a look at that, justinhealth.com— I should say, facebook.com/justinhealthwellnessclinic, or click on the the facebook link. I don’t know what the topic is. I came in late. Okay— So, Pheochromocytoma. I think that’s a tumor on the kidney that produces excess aldosterone. I’m going back to like doctorate school physiology class. I think that’s the aldosterone-producing tumor. So, I mean, all the stuff we would do for cancer: Ketogenic diet, uhm— toxicity, coffee enemes, crucumin— all of that. I’ll let you hit the rest of them. Go ahead.
Evan Brand: Yeah. Let’s see what else we’ve got. Uh— Tessa. Wanting to know about starting Iodine, what to do to get started. Uh— Dr. Korosin talks about Iodine a lot in the aspect that many people are doing it, but if they have thyroid antibodies, it’s making the situation worse. So my advice would be get your thyroid panel run. Look for the antibodies first ‘cause you could if you have [incomprehensible], you could make yourself worse if you go start pumping a bunch of Iodine. And uh— Korosin’s got a bunch of literature he link’s, too about that conversation.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Keep the Selenium in there, two to four hundred micrograms. And once you’re stable, if you want to play around with some Iodine, hundred and fifty micrograms to start at one drop or one hun— 150 microgram dose, you know, per week, installing increase. They just make sure the B vitamins, the vitamin C, the Selenium, the Magnesium, and the Zinc are all in with it. And also, stay tuned for my Thyroid Reset Plan book that will be coming out in the next six months.
Evan Brand: Oooh!
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s [inaudible] … draft for the first half of the book, just the other day, so I’m really excited about it.
Evan Brand: Congratulations.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Thank you.
Evan Brand: Alright. Let’s keep going. Uh— Home remedies for flu and what to eat everyday to avoid s—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh— Remedy. Last week’s podcast. We did a whole podcast on it. Also I did a whole blog post: “What to do when you get sick” Part 1, Part 2. Part 1’s on the diet and lifestyle. Part 2 is in the supplements. So, that answers your questions right there.
Evan Brand: Man, Justin is killing it today. All great. Another question. Is it necessary to take HPA Access Support during a Kill Phase if you’re in Stage 1 or 2? I would say, it depends on your constitution. I think Justin would agree and…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.
Evan Brand: … depends on your sleep, your stress level, how many hours are you working, how much rest are you getting. Are you working or are you off from working? What’s your circadian rhythm look like? Are you travelling? What’s going on? Like, what’s in that stress bucket?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I would say yes. It’s always gonna be good. And then depending on how much stress would be what we’d— what specific herbs we would recommend.
Evan Brand: Oh, we take adaptogens everyday, so we’re gonna say yes always.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes. I got some Ashwagandha here. So today, I’m crushing the Ashwagandha Supreme, right here. Absolutely. I’m gonna hit two right up now. I love it. It helps with my mood. It helps with sleep. It helps with energy. I find two. I can take it before bed if I— I get like disturbed or like stressed out, because— I don’t know. I watch the news or uhm— just something happens. Like, I just got some project. I got to do some deadline. Taking that really helps kind of curtail the Cortisol rush at night, along with uhm— some GABA and Magnesium, too.
Evan Brand: Yeah. I’ve been hitting Ashwagandha, the Reishi, the Motherwort, the Ziziphus, Albizia, the GABA, Chewable PharmaGABAs. I love them. Those were all good choices. “Hello, Dr. J and Evan. How much probiotics are appropriate for a two-year old after antibiotic treatment for Bronchitis. If you’re looking into those infant strains that we’re using, some of the infant probiotics, typically— if we’re talking powders, it ends up being about…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Quarter teaspoon, right?
Evan Brand: … about quarter to a half teaspoon per day…
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.
Evan Brand: … for my daughter. We’re doing that currently. And she’s a little less than two years old but we just put it into her drink of water, and she just sips on it all day.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and then for us, like my son Aden, I’m just like basically tipping my finger a little bit and some— Like I dump some probiotics on like the uhm— the container, and I’ll just kind of slip my finger and I’ll just touch it. And then I’ll apply it to his gums. Or like, we’ll put it on my wife’s breast, where like my child will feed from and just apply it there. And then, when he feeds, he gets the probiotics that way. So, you can do either way, if [crosstalk] they’re still not doing solids.
Evan Brand: That’s a good idea.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: The infant’s strain’s great. That’s really what you want, I think, up to age four. [pauses] Yeah, up to age four, like that’s when you want to be just doing the infant’s strains.
Evan Brand: Uh— Tessa gave us some more follow-up about the Iodine question. She does not have a thyroid and has grave disease. Would that change your—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, Dr. Wright has a protocol for graves where he does really a high amount of Iodine to basically overload the Iodine symport system, and then downregulate uhm- hormone Iodine or let’s just say thyroid hormone production. There’s that protocol. What’s out there? Dr. Wright’s— Jonathan Wright’s Protocol. I personally— and again, you need to be working with the clinician with this. Graves, it’s really serious. I mean, all of these conditions, I don’t recommend just doing Dr. Google. Like, we’re giving a lot of good information, which is great. But you really want to be working with someone in applying it. But for hypothyroid graves, we’re doing L-Carnitine, we’re doing Melissa and Lemon Balm, okay? Blue Flag— We’re also gonna be doing Lithium Orotate. Okay. And of course, an autoimmune Paleo type of template. I did multiple patients over two hands full that I had taken them out of grave-like states, so to speak.
Evan Brand: What’s the Lithium doing?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, Lithium has an effect on modulating the thyroid hormones.
Evan Brand: Oh, wow! That’s cool.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Lithium Orotate, we— I typically just uh— a formula used with the combination of Melissa or Lemon Balm and Blue Flag, and a couple of other herbs in there that are really helpful. The Carnitine, the Lithium; that’s gonna be great. And of course, you know, we added some Selenium, too, to help with the antibodies.
Evan Brand: Nice. Nice. Great. Great follow-up there. Very— Very good. Uh— does oil pulling really help? Yeah. It does. We’ve used uh— oil pulling ourselves. Both of us have, but there’s some— there’s some cool things you can do with it too. And there’s actually some testing you can do to look for all these different infections, like Hidden Cavitation infections. In the oil pulling, there’s some cool literature on like Silver and coconut, and all that, helping with like oral bad guys.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. Vitamin K, too, is gonna be excellent for root canal stuff. Of course, collagen. Your teeth’s gonna be— have protein as well. So, good collagen peptides is gonna be excellent as well.
Evan Brand: Uh— last question here from Roslyn. “My SIBO test results are Methane 60+, Hydrogen 20; probiotics do not agree with me.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Imagine, Roslyn. Are you also constipated, too? Can chime in there? Methane— typically, he put in a Methane diameter and a more constipated Hydrogen, dominate more diarrhea. You’re still positive on the Hydrogen, too. So you may have a— you may also alternate with the two. So, if you can Chime in there fast and let us know what your motility is like, I can answer you more specifically.
Evan Brand: Yeah. And we’ve used that ___[30:51] Formula. It’s got some of the Quebracho extract in there, which can help drop Methane.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Quebracho. [crosstalk] Love it.
Evan Brand: Quebracho. Sounds like a part here something. I don’t know.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I love it. It’s great.
Evan Brand: Like if— If Roslyn doesn’t get back to us, then we’ll just assume that if Probiotics are not agreeing and Methane’s that high.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, of course, you know, if let’s say she is more constipated, then we would do things like ginger and natural prokinetics to keep things moving. We use ginger tea. Uh— maybe some of the Iberogast formula to keep things moving. Another support I used, called MotilPro, which is excellent. And then, we work on knocking down that bacteria. We probably hold off some of the probiotics if it makes it worse. But we’d make sure things are moving. Maybe even some uhm— Magnesium citrate to keep things moving too.
Evan Brand: Yep. Good advice. Vitamin C, too. You could pump by, what? Two to five grams or so. Vitamins C. That should be enough to move the bowels.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Probably a little higher than that, but yeah. I mean, I think, two maybe a little light, but definitely five to eight, five to nine will probably move it for sure.
Evan Brand: Okay, cool. Uhm— more more question here. Why can’t my eyes handle bright light? It could be due to the adrenals.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Adrenals, yup. Hundred percent.
Evan Brand: Typically, weak uh— weak adrenals, so definitely get your adrenals tested and looked at some of the adaptogens to help handle bright light. Like the people, you know, especially the women who come out of the grocery store. The first thing they do is pop down those sunglasses on and they just can’t live without them. That tells me adrenal problems.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I agree. Hundred percent. Alright, cool. I think we answered almost everything. Would spore probiotics Just Thrive be enough to repopulate to the gut after the Kill phase or should you rotate the— I would rotate other strains. I’m not familiar with Just Thrive. I’m a big fan of MegaSporeBiotic. We have it on our site, justinhealth.com/shop, under Gut Section. We’ll put the links in the Show Notes. I like that one. There are a couple of others that are out there that are really good. I know uhm— Primal Defense by Garden of Life is a decent one. I like the MegaSpore, though.
Evan Brand: Yep. Cool.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And then, Sue says, “My—” ‘Kay. So, I don’t know. Yeah, so that’s about the Pheocytochroma. Not sure if you have. That’s a tumor. So, you’d really want to get that uhm— resolved there with your doctor. But you’ve got to go on like anti-cancer protocol for that. Uhm— hope that helped guys. Any other questions, comments, or concerns, Evan?
Evan Brand: I think that’s it for today. If people want to reach out. Schedule a consult with you. Check out Justin’s site, justinhealth.com. You can book a consult with him. If you like to book a consult with me, either of us, we’re happy to help you. You can just check us out; evanbrand.com is me. And make sure you subscribe to the YouTube channel here. We’re what? Thirty three plus thousand so— [crosstalk] Let’s get Justin up to fifty grand, you guys. and then a hundred, and then a million. So, subscribe, subscribe, subscribe, and share, because sharing is caring. And Education is the first step to greatness. How can you approach this stuff if you have no clue. You can’t. You got to learn, and then you can apply.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. And just so everyone know, if you’re listening to us on YouTube. You know, we have the conversation and the video kind of going back and forth, so you can see our ugly mugs. But we also have the podcast link, and we are recording our podcast in super high audio quality. So, if you want to upgrade the audio, feel free and subscribe to our podcast channels. Again, we’ll have them in the show notes if you listen to Evan or I. We have the upgraded audio for you and that’s only been the last month or so. So, we’re really trying to up our game, guys. We want to make sure you get the best information at the highest quality on your fingertips.
Evan Brand: Yeah, so that’s on iTunes. So, look up Justin Marchegiani, or just type in Beyond Wellness on your iTunes or podcast app. And you can subscribe there. Cool thing I’ll tell about, Justin, iTunes just released a Podcast Analytic so now we can check and see our people actually paying full attention for the full episode or is everybody stopped listening after 20 minutes. Now we can see the drop-offs. That’s pretty neat. And then, for my show, it— just type in my name, Evan Brand, and you’ll find it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. I think if you go to evanbrand.com, there’ll be a link for your podcast. If you go to justinhealth.com or beyondwellnessradio.com, there’ll be a link there for the podcast. Click it. It will bring you to the button where you can subscribe. And then, we’ll make sure you get updates as soon as you can. And then also, if you’re listening on YouTube, smash the bell. YouTube’s doing some funny things you’re not gonna get the notifications if you are subscribed. So, hit subscribed and then smash the bell right next to it. That way, you’ll get all the notifications. And we’re gonna try to continue dropping lots of knowledge bombs. Let us know. Give us some comments below the channel if you’re listening on YouTube about this. We want to hear some of your concerns. We’re gonna work on responding on them a little more. And also, we want to get more feedback on what you guys want to talk about. So, let us know. We really want to engage you and bring more information. You know, our goal is to help, you know, ten million people. So, you know, we’re doing in the thousands range right now. We want to help more. So, allow us to help you by figuring out what your needs are and let us help you fulfill it, okay?
Evan Brand: Amen. We’ll see you guys after Christmas. So, I hope it’s good for everyone.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Merry Christmas to everyone. Happy holidays, too. And hope you guys have a happy healthy New Year. And check out our hacking the holidays podcast. Lots of good solutions there so you guys can kick butt, stay healthy and not get sick throughout the holidays.
Evan Brand: Amen, brother.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey, Evan. great chat with you, man. You take care and Merry Christmas.
Evan Brand: Take care. Merry Christmas. See you.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Take care. Bye now.
Evan Brand: See yah.
Jonathan Wright’s Protocol by Dr. Jonathan Wright
Steven Harrod Buhner
How Sugar Feeds Illness
How Sugar Feeds Illness
By Dr. Justin Marchegiani
America takes first place… as the top consumer of dietary sugar in the world. Our sugar consumption is a major player behind the skyrocketing rates of chronic diseases like diabetes, obesity, and cancer. The average American now consumes an average of 130 grams of sugar per day—for reference, the daily recommendation for women is a maximum of 20 grams a day! This is more than just sad: it’s dangerous. Today we are going to outline some of the effects of sugar on our immediate and long-term health.
What is Sugar?
This might seem obvious, but food producers are getting craftier with their labeling as they realize more and more people are making the choice to eat healthier. Sugar goes by many names, with new ones popping up all the time. Some sugars are natural, most are processed, and more and more are being created in labs. Here are just a few names to look out for on product labels:
- Brown sugar
- Corn sweetener
- Corn syrup
- Fruit juice concentrates
- High fructose corn syrup
- Honey (raw, pasteurized)
- Invert sugar
- Malt sugar
- Raw sugar
- Sugar molecules ending in “-ose” (dextrose, fructose, glucose, lactose, maltose, sucrose)
What About Fruit?
Yes, fruit technically contains sugar, in the form of fructose. However, there is a big difference between enjoying a piece of fruit as an after-dinner treat, versus having orange juice with breakfast and fruit juices as your beverage of choice throughout the day. Studies have shown that eating fruit whole can lower risk of developing type 2 diabetes, drinking fruit actually increases your risk! The fiber you get from eating fruit whole slows the absorption of the sugar and keeps the glycemic index low. Plus, it takes a lot more squeezed fruit to fill a glass than you could possibly eat in a serving, meaning you’re consuming way more sugar than you realize!
The Effects of Sugar
Consuming large quantities of sugar has been linked to an increased risk of a variety of chronic diseases including obesity, cardiovascular disease, diabetes and non-alcoholic fatty liver disease (NAFLD) as well as cognitive decline and even some cancers!
There are also many health issues caused by sugar that aren’t as talked about:
Sugar depletes the body of critical electrolytes, antioxidants, and minerals, which leads to cell death, muscle spasms, insulin resistance, and other health defects. Its effects on the immune system leave you prone to getting sick more often and more severely.
Sugar feeds bacteria and parasites, like yeast and Candida. It also depletes the body of good gut bacteria, promoting Leaky Gut and other gut infections. Chronic pain, vision problems, and even wrinkles can be worsened by sugar!
Sugar causes chronic inflammation in the body, and inflammation is said to be the root cause of almost all disease.
How Sugar Feeds Cancer
Sugar consumption has been proved to feed cancer cells and speed up the growth of tumors. Too much sugar consumption causes insulin resistance, as well as a specific protein to be released from your pancreas. This protein causes your cells to replicate and become immortal, which is how pre-cancerous cells can begin to take over.
Cancer cells prefer glucose over oxygen, but our mitochondria can’t use the glucose as energy. White blood cells are our immune system’s soldiers, and need vitamin C to function properly. A cancer patient needs lots of healthy white blood cells to fight the disease, however, sugar blocks the absorption of vitamin C in our bloodstream, weakening our immune system.
In summary, sugar causes cancer cells to reproduce and thrive, and blocks the mechanisms that would slow down or kill cancer cells and tumors.
Sugar addiction runs deep, and can be hard to kick. Stay tuned for Dr. J’s thoughts on artificial sweeteners, approaches to beating sugar addiction, and healthy alternatives for sugar.
How To Boost your Immune System So You Don’t Get Sick – Dr. J Live Podcast #163
Dr. Justin Marchegiani and Evan Brand talk about immune health, which is such a relevant topic this flu season. Learn how sugar contributes to a weakened immune system and find out why vitamin D is important in supporting one’s immune system.
Discover some of the natural herbs and supplements to boost your immune system. And gain valuable information on topics like root canal, Raynaud’s phenomenon and glutathione in connection with your immune system.
In this episode, we cover:
02:13 Sugar and the Immune System
11:30 Glutathione IV
16:34 Supplements to boost Immune System
18:30 Raynaud’s Phenomenon
19:24 Root Canal
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Dr. J is here. Evan, what’s going on, man? How was your weekend?
Evan Brand: Weekend was good as always. Hannah, my wife, showed me a picture. You are out there a waterskiing. She said like, “Is he freezing?” I said, “I don’t know. I have to ask him.”
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, man. It was phenomenal. I mean it was like maybe 65 minutes cold when you’re in colder water and you come up and the air hits it. But I had like a 3 to 4 mm uh— wetsuit and I am getting or I should say waterproof gloves and socks for next week. But I plan on waterskiing every weekend of the year that I’m here in Austin—So that is—January as well.
Evan Brand: That’s impressive. Who drives your boat?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh—I get one of my—my buddy here in Austin as well. He skis as well. So we both kinda just take turns.
Evan Brand: Uhh—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: He’ll drive, I pull him and vice versa.
Evan Brand: That’s a lot of fun.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: Well, we’re proud of you for getting out there and practicing what you preach. Getting sunshine, getting movement, getting immersed in the elements of the earth and water and sunshine. That’s great.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. And also, you get the cold water thermogenesis going, which has some really good health benefits activating that good brown fat really up regulates metabolism, uh— lot of good HPA axis stimulation when you’re exposed to cold like that. So that’s pretty cool.
Evan Brand: Awesome. Awesome.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Awesome.
Evan Brand: We’re gonna chat about uh— immune health, immune function. Know, this time of the year everybody starts coughing and getting sick. It makes you paranoid makes you want to wear a mask everywhere you go, uh— which I don’t do, but I want to stay healthy. I don’t want to get sick, so that’s a big topic that we can hit on. Oh, look! Look! Speaking of—Samuel just commented. He just got over the flu. So there we go.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Look at that. Exactly. Exactly. So, I got an article we’ll talk about here today. It’s called, “What to what to do when you get sick?” Part one and part two. So if you go to my page here, you can grab that link by putting the— you know, what to do when you get sick in the search bar. We’ll put links, too, below these in the podcast as well as the YouTube videos, so you can access any of the things any supplements or any products or any of the material. Uh— really easy access for you. So, we’ll make sure that’s put in the reference section down below.
Evan Brand: Alright. So, I think we should hit the food sensitivity immune piece. I feel like a lot of people, if we use the immune system bucket analogy, a lot of people have their bucket full already due to food sensitivity. So do you want to open up the conversation on it?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. One of the big things is glucose and vitamin C that they look very, very similar to the body. So when you take excess amounts of sugar, especially refined sugar and you increase your blood sugar, uh— that can actually have a effects on decreasing vitamin C absorption or decreasing vitamin C activation. So, vitamin C binds to receptor sites on the macrophage and helps with uhm— you know, the stress of dealing with infections or you’re—you’re basically little pacmen and women gobbling up crap inside your blood stream. And vitamin C’s important. And if you have a lot of sugar in there, that’s gonna impede vitamin C from doing its thing. And sugar also has effects in suppressing the immune system, where they looked at vitamin C absorption or vitamin C activation over time period and you can see that you have significant immune decrease when you’re consuming refined sugar especially excess amounts refined sugar. And don’t forget, refined carbohydrates or more starchier carbs can convert to sugar. So if you were more in the insulin resistance side, that can—even—too much starch can really throw you off, for sure.
Evan Brand: Yeah. Now, what about the testing aspect of immune health? I mean, you’ve got your conventional doctors where they’ll run things like your white blood cells, where we can see things that get affected. If someone’s have like a chronic of virus or something that’s affecting their immune system, we’ll see like the white blood cell count drop. Uh— what else could we see conventionally? Would— would like the DHS ERP? Would that be valuable as uh— immune markers? Is that just gonna be completely and another ball field due to due to its inflammation?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So if we’re talking like an acute like winter flu kind of thing, you really don’t have time to do a lot of testing. I find that the faster you act on whatever is going on, the greater chance you have of reducing getting sick. So, of course, we have the diet and lifestyle components, right? We have get more sleep. Your immune system sucks up a ton of energy. So when you’re trying to kill a bacteria or virus, you really want to make sure your immune system has extra reserves. So get more sleep coz you’ll be more tired. Number two, decrease the refined sugar and excess carbohydrates from your diet, especially grains and refined sugar and alcohol, right? Uh— number three, I would say once we have the stress and the sleep and the diet on board which is kinda like everything, we would then move towards supplements. And of course, we have one our favorite things is medicinal mushrooms. So I am a big fan of Reishi or Cordyceps. You could even to Chaga as well. Doing these at 1 to 2 caps per hour too is a phenomenal way to boost up and up regulate your immune system.
Evan Brand: Yeah. I take mushrooms pretty much every day. I’ve been doing the uhh—an adrenal tincture. That’s Ashwaganda, Reishi, it’s got Chaga, Cordyceps. I basically take all of it together. I wanted to hit on the piece of vitamin D. Many people get their vitamin D check with their conventional docs and their levels are at 20 or 30 and that is just not high enough. And we had a question here from Prince about vitamin D from eggs and fish. “Is that enough or do we need to supplement?” Oh, no, he didn’t ask that. He said, “Do we need exposure to sunlight?” Yes, of course. If you can get exposure to sunlight, that’s great. But you know, there is such thing as a vitamin D winter. So if you’re at a northern latitude like in the Pittsburgh, you’re not get much vitamin D from the sun. So, maybe an hour a day. So, a lot of times it does take supplementation. Dr. Mercola, he prides himself on not having to supplement with vitamin D, but he lives on the beach in southern Florida. And he is out for three hours a day walking on the beach almost naked. So, he’s one exception, where he can omit supplementation. But for most of us, you know, that’s what it’s gonna take to get us into the optimal level. We know when we’re talking about flus and colds and all that, vitamin D is not at the optimal range. That can be a huge factor.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, 100%. A hundred percent. So, off the bat, there is a couple things here. So we talked about vitamin D makes a big difference. Uh— one of the things we do is we’ll do vitamin D hundred thousand IUs which is a lot of vitamin D for three days. That really up regulates your immune system and up regulates these antimicrobial enzymes call cathelicidin. And they gobble up bacteria. So, high-dose vitamin D is one thing I do. We’ll do the medicinal mushrooms called Reishi. You know, Reishi or Cordyceps. I created—I formulated a blend called Immuno Supreme. And that’s a good blend of that has got Monolaurin in there. I have a Monolaurin Supreme as well you can use by itself. Monolaurin is nice because it can gobble up virus, digest the viral envelope. It’s kind of like uhm— viruses use the viral envelope, so the immune system can’t see them. It’s kinda like Harry Potter when he puts on the invisibility cloak. No one can see him, but when it’s off, you can see him. Well, same kind of thing with your immune system. Viruses have their own invisibility cloak. And the Monolaurin helps break it down. We’ll add in the Reishi or the medicinal mushrooms like the Reishi, the Cordyceps, or the Chaga, right? Those are super, super helpful. They get the immune system up regulated. I talked about the vitamin D hundred thousand IUs. I also make note of the vitamin C. We’ll get the vitamin C are pretty high as well, maybe 8000 mg 9000 mg which is equal to eight or 9 g daily. You know, just below bowel tolerance.
Evan Brand: So the Monoluarin, would you use that more like a spot treatment if something comes up? Or are you saying you may even do that throughout a winter season?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Great question. So, off the bat, let’s kinda like break things down into symptoms or let’s just kinda give you like a general scenario. So, this morning, I woke up, my throat’s a little bit dry. So, my wife had the heat on a little bit higher in the house. Sometimes the heat could do it. So I’m kinda like, I’m on high alert. So, of course, I am smashing my adaptogens, right? I’m hitting up a lot of Ahswaganda right now. And I’m gonna go crush some vitamin D a bit. And I’m also gonna go juice some fresh ginger. I’m also drinking some apple cider vinegar drinks. I kinda do some apple vinegar shots throughout the day coz that really grabs a lot of the mucus off the back of my throat, which is helpful. I’m gonna go make some fresh ginger tea. Ginger shown to have positive effects at knocking down biofilms and it has effects at preventing viruses from heating or adhesing onto the various cell walls. So keeps the viruses from sticking, so to speak. And it really helps the immune system against viral activation and it helps the lymphatics. So, keeps things moving, better lymphatics is gonna help my macrophages, you know, the little Pac-Man or woman of your body, gobbling up crap, right? So that’s helpful. So doing those things— the Apple cider vinegar, uhmm— the ginger tea, uh— the vitamin D, and course, I start to slam the mushrooms, too, because the medicinal mushrooms get your immune system like up regulated. It’s like saying it’s like taking the army, right? Or the snipers and putting them on high alert. They’re all like perch above, they’re looking down, they’re looking for anything that comes out to move, right? So that’s kinda what I look as the medicinal mushrooms are doing. It’s really getting the immune system ready.
Evan Brand: Now, how about Monolaurin? How would you compare and contrast that?
Is that, do you cycle on? Do you cycle off? I mean, what’s your take?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s a great question. In Immuno Supreme, we put Monolaurin in there. So, there’s a little bit in there, but it’s not gonna be at like a therapeutic level, where if you were to take it by itself. So if you have a sneaking suspicion that there’s a virus going around, right? And you know there’s some kinda virus that’s in the area, your kids bring it home, you just know, right? It’s flu season. You’re thinking it’s a virus issue. Then number one: I’d be hitting ginger tea. Number two: I’d be using the Immuno Supreme, okay? Number three: you can add in— you can add in additional medicinal mushroom, okay? Number four: you can throw in some silver and number five: you can throw in some Monolaurin by itself. I’ll typically do between 2 to 5 things depending on what’s going on. So number one, if I’m under a lot of stress and I start getting sick, then I’m like, “Crap, I need to really hit it hard.” Coz I know my immune system’s more stress. If I’m more relaxed and there’s not a lot of stress going on and I’m sleeping really good, and I may just choose two or three things to start with. So and if I know people around me are coming down with the flu, then I’ll hit more things to help with the flu. Silver, medicinal mushrooms and of course, I’ll hit the Monolaurin by itself— couple of grams a day. 3-4 g a day.
Evan Brand: I like turkey tail. I wanna make some Turkey tail mushrooms. I have been using those a lot, too. And also, Astragalus. We love Astragalus, so I use it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Astragalus is one of those herbs that kinda has an adaptogenic effect. And it cleanses the blood, too. And I will use that by itself. So I like five or six things in my medicine cabinet. I just stocked up last week ordering like three or four bottles of Reishi. Come the holiday season, I actually start adding in medicinal mushrooms that support my immune system at a low dose. I’ll do about 3 caps today. And if I start to feel anything, that goes from 3 to 12.
Evan Brand: Yup. That’s good. We got a question about glutathione IV for a healthy woman in her 40’s. “Is it worth it?” “And how often should I get it?” I’ll speak on it first and hear your take Justin. Uh— I’ve seen hundreds of times on the organic acids test and there’s actually some literature on this, that if you’re taking your precursors for glutathione, like you’re N-acetylcysteine or your vitamin C even in oral form, that you can actually boost up glutathione. So needing an IV if you say you’re a healthy woman, I just think it’s overkill. And it’s probably not necessary unless you just had some crisis thing going on and you needed a quick IV for it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Great. Great point, Evan. So let me lay it out. There’s two scenarios, right? Scenario number one, is working with the functional medicine doctor as a long-term plan. From a long-term strategy, glutathione IVs are very expensive over a long-term. I mean, if you’re looking at like $30 $40 an IV, and you’re doing that couple times a week, long-term it’s not— it’s not a really good cost-effective solution. I much rather be using glutathione precursors and/or liposomal glutathione over a long-term kinda functional medicine program, okay. Number one if it used punctuated-wise because you’re in the middle of a—a heavy metal cleanse, or you have a lot of mold issues in your home and you’re using it as a punctuated circumstance, or you’re traveling, you decided to go to one of these natural clinics and get an IV coz your traveling and you’re under stress, that’s fine. Punctuated, short-term specific reasons it makes sense. Over a long-term, I don’t think it’s the most cost-effective because there— number one: you get stuck every day. Number two: it’s a little bit expensive. You’re better off using the precursors in the liposomal glutathione moreover the long-term. But I still see value in it and I kinda just outline those scenarios why.
Evan Brand: Yup. For sure. Uh—I’d say can we zoom out a bit. Let’s do like a 30,000 foot view of other things that could be affecting or suppressing someone’s immune system like dysbiosis in the gut, bacterial overgrowth, parasites, the candida issues, adrenal issues, heavy metal issues, liver detox problems. These are things that we see every single day in the clinic by running organic acids and stool testing. If you’ve got parasites or you’ve got chronic bacterial infections like H. pylori that’s suppressing your ability to make stomach acid, you’ve got the list undigested food because of the H. pylori that’s affecting your gut barrier creating leaky gut, therefore allowing the immune system to get under attack and create autoimmunity. So, I think from like a high point of view, outside of just the seasonal illness stuff this time of the year, if you haven’t approached and tested for your infections, your heavy metals, your detoxification markers, now’s a good time.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I think it’s great. So, you know, looking where you’re at, I mean, most people that they’re not gonna stuck their medicine cabinet up with maybe five things, but I’d say let’s look at two things, right? So number one, I think the vitamin D is really important just because based on where the Earth’s latitude, the angle of that is at the this time of the year, it’s lower or its less direct, so you’re gonna have less UV exposure, so getting vitamin D is really hard. So getting the vitamin D up. And I went over the acute protocol for it. 100,000 IUs for three days. And step number two is some kind of immune booster. So, if you’re just a regular everyday person and you’re taking some adaptogens like I’ll just take more Ashwagana, which is great immune boosting benefits. Or if you want to add something in additionally, I recommend a vitamin—higher dose vitamin C, bioflavonoids and/or medicinal mushroom or if you want a multi-tasker, in my line Immuno Supreme is a good one. And I’ll put my link below and I know you have couple that you like in your line, Evan. We’ll make sure we put the link for those, too.
Evan Brand: Speak on the testing. Let’s talk about this. I mean, dysbiosis. If you got gut infections, you’ve got parasites, bacterial overgrowth like this is something in your bucket that you can take all the Reishi in the world, but if you’ve got infections, you’ve got infections—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right. So again, there’s the zoom in and zoom out, right? So, over the long picture, over you know, over the— over the long run, big picture, we want to create a comprehensive functional medicine protocol that involves supporting the adrenals, fixing the gut, fixing the absorption, which then helps the detox, which then helps the immune system, right? So when that— in the long run, this is ideal, okay? But in the short run, people are like, “Hey, I want to be more natural. I want to be more holistic. I don’t want to— you know, get a vaccine or flu shot or you know beyond a synthetic NyQuil or whatever these drugs are that just control the symptoms. I wanna actually get healthier, but I don’t have time to jump into a functional medicine program. I’m starting to feel down now. What the hell do I do?” So the herbs that I mentioned they’re kinda like the quick fix in the short run. And of course, the easy things you can do in the short run, too, is cut all the sugar out, cut all the crap out, really increased nutrient density, more bone broth, ginger tea, right? Lots of good greens. Those kind of things. Lots of good healthy meats and fats. That’s you know— the diet stuff, the sugar stuff and then we talked about a couple supplement stuff. And in the long run, the goal will be to get you out of functional medicine plan, where we address all the other barriers that you mentioned that would enhance the immune system over the long run.
Evan Brand: For sure. I would give a couple other mentions, too. Uh— zinc can be helpful. You don’t have to go super high with zinc. You could do 15 mg of zinc –
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.
Evan Brand: Uh—and then there’s also some elderberry, which you don’t necessarily have to do long-term and then uh— Echinacea, too. You could bump some Echinacea up for a couple weeks and zinc, Echinacea, Elderberry. Uh—I’ve even seen your—your B pollens or your B propolis can be cool. Uh—sometimes, people are doing a little bit of the Manuka honeys, but sometimes it can be abused. So, I think those are couple good.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. We try to __a lot of great info about—you know, actionable info. And again, a lot of people are doing this. We’re putting it out there so everyone can kinda listen to what things, you know, really resonate. And I’ll put a link of some of these products that we—you know, I provide. Evan can do the same as well. So if you want some things that we formulated, we personally use, you can check what we have or you can go look at your local health food store and see what is near you as well. But that gives you a pretty good perspective there. Of course, big picture is we want to get, you know, fix the underlying issues. Short-term picture is here are some immune things that we can do to boost you up in the short run. So, today, I already hit the Reishi up and I’m gonna go hit some vitamin D up. I’ve already hit the Ashwaganda up and I’m gonna also hit my Immuno Supreme up as well. And I’ll do the Reishi again, three capsules around lunchtime and I’ll do three around dinner and before bed. So, I’m doing 12 a day right now just to make sure I’m up regulated. And also, I got my bedtime set tonight for 9:30- 10 o’clock. And I’m gonna get—I’m gonna sleep till probably eight, which is a little later than I normally do. So I’m gonna get a good 9-8, you know, 9-10 hrs. 10 hours, I’d say tonight to really make sure I recharge my body.
Evan Brand: That sleep is—I mean, sleep is free, too. So that’s always good and it actually has a huge effect. You could take all the supplements in the world, but if your sleep is terrible and you’re scrolling on Instagram till 2 AM, that’s bad. You’re not gonna be healthy. You’ve gotta—you’ve gotta address the lifestyle, too. You wanna answer a couple of questions here? We’ve— we’ve got one about – as we get deeper into winter the temperature, gets colder what you recommend for Raynaud’s phenomenon, cold hands, body’s—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You gotta fix the Raynaud’s phenomenon. That’s typically associated with autoimmunity, where it creates a vasospasm in the extremities and the vasculature spasm and then, you don’t get the blood flow there. So it gets colder and you can like, you know, make a motion on your finger and it just stays. It just stays there coz it’s not circulation. So, typically, there’s a thyroid component or an autoimmune component. I’ve seen these hundreds of times, where we actually get to the root cause and that tends to get better on its own. So that is going to be— there is the symptomatic approach, which is get some better gloves with some heat warmers in there. Root cause approach is functional medicine program that gets to the root cause: leaky gut, autoimmune, thyroid issues, for sure.
Evan Brand: Yup. Well said. A question about root canals. Person had a root canal removed, taking antibiotics. Suggestions on supplements to take after I’m done with antibiotics. I wish we could’ve prevented the root canal coz there’s a lot of issues with three canals. But you got it removed, so that’s good. Uh— suggestions on supplements to take after done with antibiotics. I mean what’s your take, Justin? There are so many—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Definitely good quality probiotics. Ideally, we want to avoid root canals at all cost. And again, if we get a root canal—Ideally, you want to have an extraction. You don’t want the tooth to be there because it’s basically like a diabetic who was a gangrenous limb and he just—you hollow out the bone and then there’s the skin flap there. It’s kinda like that, if you will. Coz what happens is the tissue is there. The tooth is there. But the immune system for that tooth is now gone. The circulatory and the immune system’s gone. So it’s where bacteria and viruses tend to hide. They go where the immune system isn’t, right? They’re pretty smart. They’re stealthy, right? They’ve been around millions of years and they have mechanisms to figure that out. So they’re gonna hide in that tooth cavity and you’re not gonna be able to touch it because the— now the bodies don’t have the capacity to reach the immune system that far, so—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. They’re scary. Dental stuff is huge. We should probably get a couple functional dentist on the show.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’m gonna get in my end, Dr. Joan Sefcik in Austin, I’ll get her in and we’ll chat about – we’ve that we’ve got a lot of talks about it. But, in general, if you had its root canal and it still there, do some oil pulling to help act like a magnet the pony crud that could be there. Uh— I’ll look at tooth meridian chart and see where that tooth’s meridians on. What meridian, what organ system or neurological pathway it’s on and see if there any symptoms that you’re dealing with that time up in regards to the root canal and those organ systems and see if anything resonates there. And then number three: try to get ahead of it. Prevent it. If you’re listening and you haven’t gotten to try to prevent it. And number four: I would say potentially look for an extraction and then maybe a bridge option coz that way, you’ll at least have something in there that’s you know, bacteria and viruses are not gonna be able to live in like a sterile ceramic or sterile surgical steel type of implant.
Evan Brand: Yeah. But uh—for this person who had already taken the antibiotics, I would just say that you’d want to do—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Probiotics right now.
Evan Brand: You’d wanna do the probiotics. And I would say the leaky gut support, too. So you and I both have leaky gut formulas.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.
Evan Brand: It could be helpful. So things that have the slippery elm and the marshmallow root. I’ve got one called the GI Soothe. What’s your—what’s your version called?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. GI Restore. Uhm—that’ll kill the viruses. Gargle it for 1 to 2 minutes and then swallow. In that way, it’s gonna be heading in that inner around that area, where the— the work was done. So if there’s any infection that’s held for sure.
Evan Brand: Yup. That’s good advice. Uh— supplement about HCl. Can you get an ulcer from HCl?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes, you can. If you have atrophic gastritis and your gut lining’s already really thin and you’re taking Hydrochloric Acid, it can definitely create irritation to the point—especially if you’re trying to work it up to tolerance. You’re trying to push it higher thinking that’s better. Then that could definitely create an issue there. So, of course, number one, if you’re feeling burning or irritation, don’t do that and back the dose often. Of course, take it with food. And then number two is adding some of the healing nutrients that Evan and I talked about. Whether it’s the the Gastro Soothe the G.I. Restore or something that has an L-glutamine kind of uh herbal anti-inflammatory support formula will really help with the gut lining.
Evan Brand: Yup.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Marshmallow, chamomile, all those things are great. A lot of L-glutamine of course, bone broth and ginger tea is also great, too.
Evan Brand: Cool. Awesome. We’re good. Well, I think we— I think we hit it all. Riley had a question about the vagal tone essential oil. Yeah, it’s helpful, Riley. It’s a good. It’s an essential oil formula and it works. So, it’s something else to have in your toolbox.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes. One of the herbs that are in there may be frankincense or lavender. Evan Brand: I have to pull—Let me pull it up—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: A lot of these things what they’re really designed to do like a lot of the essential oils just help you relax a little better and the more your relaxed, meaning your—your nervous system kind of down regulates. There’s little bit less adrenaline flowing, your heartbeat’s a little slower. You can kind of relax, you start breathing a little bit deeper and it shifts your nervous system into a parasympathetic type of state, which is the rest and repair.
Evan Brand: Rest and repair. Yeah. What makes sense.—so this has got peppermint, Roman chamomile, nutmeg, so lemon balm and ginger.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Ginger is really great. You know, anti-inflammatory. Peppermint is great as well. Excellent for inflammation, too. Really helps relax you. Uhm— you mentioned chamomile’s really good for the gut, too. And then, what else? Yeah. I think there’s a lot of good things in there.
Evan Brand: Yeah. I sold quite a lot of it. So, I mean, it’s definitely a helpful—a helpful thing. I don’t think it’s a miracle cure, but it’s a good—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Is that a product that you provide?
Evan Brand: It’s a good thing to have. I do. Yeah. Ameo
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, you like it?
Evan Brand: Ameo is like—and I’ll send you—yeah. I like it. It’s good. I’ve got some at home. I use it. It’s cool. I’ll send you the link and—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I have one or two. I have one by Doterra called Balance, which is good. There are some other ones I think on guard is a really good immune boosting one. You can take a couple of drops of On Guard and put it in some water and drink it. That’s really good immune booster. And also, too, if you’re traveling, you’re gonna be on an airplane, get your immune support boosted up because you’re just in a tube with a whole bunch of recycled air, right? And you know at least 10% of the people on that plane are probably actively sick and coughing and hacking, right? And that air just get totally recycled. So I’m always like, “Oop!” You know, I’m getting my immune support going, right? I’m predicting the worst when I get on an airplane. So my immune system is ready for the assault.
Evan Brand: Agreed. Agreed. And a couple questions—“Can you take immune supplements with food?”
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup. Yup. Yeah.
Evan Brand: You sure can. “Do herbs contraindicated each other? Like oregano and Echinacea?” Anyone—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I don’t—I think you’re okay. Typically—
Evan Brand: Yeah. I was gonna say typically not. I mean there’s a couple cases where you know, you can’t mix medications with certain herbs, but even that, is—is not too big of a deal. Look up drugs.com and you can type in your—your pharmaceuticals and you can actually compare that—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s cool. And also, you just got to be careful. The big contraindications tend to be ones that have effect blood thinning like ginger is a natural blood thinner. And like if you’re going in for surgery, there gonna want you to be off blood thinners. That would include like ginkgo or ginger or fish oil. So you just have to be very wary of it if you’re going in for surgery. You just have to look up and make sure a lot of the herbs that you’re doing aren’t having blood-thinning effects because you don’t want to be cut open and then bleed more. That’s not good.
Evan Brand: Yup. Yup. Cool. You wanna hit that question on brussel sprouts?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Lots on the sulforaphane and the buzz about Rhonda Patrick for detox, immunity and general health. I think you’re referring to Rhonda Patrick. I think she’s on the Joe Rogan show just a little while back. Uhm— but, yeah, I mean, I think a lot of those cruciferous vegetables are great. There’s not a lot of refined sugar and such. So it’s not hurting your immune system. It’s a whole bunch of added nutrients for detoxification, which are great. Lot of antioxidant, which are great. Run those detox pathways better. I think there are a lot of good things a lot of good things about it. Again, I would need to know a little bit more about uh—detox immunity because it’s a lot of things that we use for detox and for immune health and gut health that we mentioned. And again, it’s not gonna all hinge upon broccoli or cruciferous vegetables. That’s maybe one small component. A lifestyle component, too. So, I wouldn’t hang my hat on all that.
Evan Brand: Uh-huh. Agreed. Yeah. I would say it’s helpful. I’ve done my own sprouts, too. I’ve actually purchased uh—some sprouting equipment. I’ve done it myself. I know Mercola talks about he does sunflower sprouts and stuff. So, yeah, is it a needle mover? I mean, maybe. It’s maybe 5% of the equation. Could it help? For sure. It’s not gonna hurt you. And it’s—you’re getting a lot more bang for your buck out of sprouts as opposed to—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. And again, uhm— Charlotte asks, “Should you take biofilm disruptors and antimicrobial herbs at the same time?” In my supplement protocols, we always have ginger tea as an option that I—I push and suggest coz ginger is highly effective at disrupting biofilms. So, I’m a huge fan of adding in good quality ginger tea. And then, Riley uhm—said any supplements for sulfurophane or broccoli sprouts? Uh— typically, I would just look for a really good organic ground-up powder substitute. And then you just take a couple scoops of it and throw it in your shake. So I would look for a really good, organic substitute. I know we have one that we use that a special order called Paleo Greens. That’s one that we use. If you needed that as a special order, you could email the office and we could provide an invoice for you. But that’s one that we use. We look for organic. Uh—we want make sure we’re not throwing a whole bunch of concentrated pesticides and that you know, a wide array of green vegetables that we like, too.
Evan Brand: Yeah. There’s a patented version called__
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s a different one.
Evan Brand: And it’s like 8% sulfurophane and there’s a couple different professional healthcare companies you’d have to get it through practitioner, but there some out there that are in extracted uh—broccoli sprout with I think it’s—let me tell you what it is—one capsule you get the equivalent of 500 g of fresh broccoli or 100 g of sprouts. So, I mean this put sprouts to shame, to be honest.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: Because of the concentration.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s great.
Evan Brand: Also to you too, excellent chat here.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it.
Evan Brand: I think that’s all the question. We’re probably good.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I just want the people to have the big picture is the big picture is get your immune system looked at and supported. 80% of your immune system lives in your gut. So making sure your digestion good, you’re infection free and you’re not adding in nutrients are not adding in toxins or excess sugar that’s gonna shut down your immune system. And then of course the sleep and then from there, that’s the big picture. Short term, we can always add in some of these natural herbal medicines that have been around for thousands of years to really get your immune system up regulated. And again, take a look at my article, “What to do when you get sick” part 1 and 2. There are some great options there.
Evan Brand: Yeah. Make sure you’re not too stressed, too. Make sure you’re not overworking. If you’re working 60 hours a week, I don’t care how many supplements you take. It’s not gonna—not gonna counteract it. You can’t out supplement your way out of a bad lifestyle. So, make sure that’s addressed and you know, if you’ve got bad people, get rid of them. If you got a bad job, try to change it. You know, there’s—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. And one thing you can do, too, is get one of these apps. Like here’s one called, “Calm” Another one called “Headspace” Every couple of hours when you get stressed, do a 2 to 3 minute meditation, right? Maybe five if you have five.
Evan Brand: Yeah. It’s a piece of cake.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Like after this call, I’m gonna do a quick 5 minute meditation. And then I’ll get back into generating maybe other video after that and seeing patients in the afternoon. So the more stress— stressed you are kinda leverage now in the technology that’s out there to help get your parasympathetics more activated. Evan, great chatting with you. Again, we talk about supplements. Take a look at some of the suggestions that we made in the reference section and also give you some ideas of your out uhm— abroad and you can kinda look at things that gives you good __ to choose from.
Evan Brand: If you’re listening on YouTube, make sure you hit subscribe on Justin’s channel. Subscribe. Subscribe. Subscribe.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: YouTube is not giving people a lot of notifications. Hit the bell and then you’re– you have a higher likelihood you get notified.
Evan Brand: The algorithm—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Cross that bell and then you get all these little tip that say we drop them up. Evan, you take care.
Evan Brand: You take are.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Alright. Bye everyone.
Leaky Gut and Autoimmunity – Dr. J. Live Podcast #161
Dr. Justin Marchegiani and Evan Brand dive into a discussion about the link between gut infections and autoimmunity. Gain knowledge about leaky gut, how it occurs in the body and it’s connection to Hashimoto’s.
Explore the different stressors which affect gut health and contribute to a weakened immune system. Learn about Dr. Justin’s 6-hour template, which includes his expert recommendation regarding healing, nutrient and supplements.
In this episode, we cover:
00:34 Leaky Gut and Autoimmunity Connection
04:05 GABA and the Blood Brain Barrier
06:48 Hashimoto’s and Gut Health
12:23 6-hour Template
22:40 Thyroid Health: T3, T4
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hello, ladies and germs! Dr. J in the house. Evan, how we doing, man? How was your Holidays? How’s your Thanksgiving?
Evan Brand: Holidays were great. Let’s dive in. I know we’ve got a short limited of time. But we’re doing this on the fly because this conversation of gut health and gut infections and autoimmunity is huge and hardly anyone is talking about this. Conventional doctors don’t have a clue about the link between gut infections and autoimmunity, so dude, let’s dive right in.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That sounds phenomenal. So we talked about in the show, kinda chatting about leaky gut and autoimmunity, which is really important because leaky gut is kind of like one of the primary mechanisms of autoimmunity kinda starting, which is kind of gastrointestinal permeability cells in the gut called the tight junctions. They start to unzip, kinda like you unzip your coat on a hot day and undigested food particles can get in there in this kind of creates this uhm— cascade of reactions call molecular mimicry, where certain food proteins— the surface proteins on these foods are similar to surface proteins of the thyroid or the brain or the pancreas, the beta—the beta cells of the pancreas, whatever. So you have this kind of immune system getting primed to similar proteins in foods which then prime the immune reaction for the immune system. It starts attacking these tissues in the body. So that’s kinda one of the first defenses is this autoimmunity leaky gut, molecular mimicry and that while they gut’s leaky, you have undigested bacterial compounds also getting in there, too. And then kinda just perpetuate and windup that immune system. And then also make it prime to—for other infections that kind of slip in there because the immune system now has weaken. Other infections can slip in. And typically, we’re gonna have a lower stomach acid environment so you’re gonna have less sterility in the stomach coz that low pH really prevents a lot of bacterial and critters from growing. But now that pH is like, you know, it’s like walking over to the dirty picnic tables and normally you spray it down with maybe some bleach. Or let’s say in a healthy version, maybe a really good antimicrobial essential oil. But now, we don’t have that because of the stress from the gut.
Evan Brand: Yup. Well said. Now, Hashimoto’s for example, is probably most common autoimmune condition that we’re going to see and deal with and that probably you guys listening are aware of. Leaky gut has to take place for Hashimoto’s to happen. That’s one of the dominoes that happens. So you’ve got the leaky gut situation. You possibly got the gluten in the diet. You got the immune stress, which could be internal or external. So bad boss, bad spouse, bad relationships, bad job— those are kind of the big dominoes we see. And when you all those up together, that’s how you get autoimmune disease. It’s really just that simple.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. And then we have people on the live chat here. And again, this is a great reason why you should subscribe to our YouTube channel—justinhealth. Uhm because we have these podcast going live as well and we’ve also incorporated other technology in the background to get a higher quality audio versions. So if you want better audio, you can subscribe to Youtube, but also check out our podcast uhm—Evan Brand, notjustpaleo and then beyond wellness radio myself. So just keep that in the back of your head. And then your question was—I just missed it. We talked about—Oh, yeah! Leaky brain. Leaky brain is connected as well coz we have these live questions coming in. And so we are multitasking like it’s no tomorrow. So leaky brain’s important because we have these called astrocytes or the brain blood or the blood brain barrier which is kind of the interplay between systemic blood and then the passing over to the brain. And we have the cells called astrocytes. And again, same thing, when we have gut lining integrity, it tends to affect integrity of the lungs, integrity of the sinuses, integrity of you know, vaginal wall area, urinary tract. So you have people that have gut issues—gut integrity issues. It almost always can cause sinus issues, brain fog, brain issues, UTI issues, bladder issues, right? So you have all of that mucous membrane barrier, it’s gonna be compromised throughout the body not just the gut. But the guts kind of that first major domino that falls and then everything else tends to follow along with it.
Evan Brand: What you think about the GABA test for the blood brain barrier, where you take like a 500 mg GABA and if it works and you get relaxed, that says you have a leaky brain. Do you agree with that?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’m not sure I buy that because I’ve seen people that do—that are really healthy and that do well with GABA.
Evan Brand: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And they, you know, symptomatically, they’re doing pretty good. They’re eating well. Again, certain supplement companies have kinda put that out where they have a GABA challenge. They say, “Hey, GABA is this really big amino acid compound and it shouldn’t go through that blood brain barrier; therefore if it does, that means your major blood brain barrier is permeable.” I’m not sure I buy that. I think it’s something to keep in mind, something to try. I have a lot of patient that have gut issues and they’re sick and that use GABA or will only give them GABA and they don’t notice much benefit either.
Evan Brand: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, you know, how do you sparse that? That’s hard.
Evan Brand: I know. Who knows, man. That’s a good question.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Everyone tries to be a little bit trendy and nuance in this functional medicine field.
Evan Brand: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Because they wanna make a name for themselves.
Evan Brand: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And I get that from a marketing perspective, but just looking at the clinical application, I’m not sure there’s ton. But, heck, if you have GABA and you want to try it and you get uh—benefits, that’s great. I notice a little bit of improvement with GABA. Like when I take it, I feel little but relax. I also do that with Ashwagandha as well. I feel it with magnesium. Someone chimed in and asked if magnesium can be taken with Ashwagandha. Yeah, sure. I’ve no problem with that.
Evan Brand: Works great.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hope everyone’s listening had a great Thanksgiving, too.
Evan Brand: Yeah. Tesa wants to know, “Have you reversed your Hashimoto’s, Dr. J, by healing the gut?”
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, so we have to be careful when we say reversed, right? So have we decrease the inflammation? Have we address underlying issues that made people susceptible to having autoimmune attack? And we—can we lessen those and decrease them to the point where we are no longer symptomatic because we have the inflammation down or quench enough? Yes. I’m just very careful because you know, eyes in the skies and people listening in they’re— they’re looking for that the cure the cure-all word, right? We just got to be careful. We don’t cure anything. We support the body’s ability to—we support the underlying stressors that cause the issue to begin with. And we support the underlying systems that weren’t functioning well. And then the body can start to get these symptoms under control because the symptoms are just a manifestation of the symptoms— the systems not working. Symptoms occur because systems aren’t working. Systems breakdown because of underlying stressors. As functional medicine doctors, we come in, we fixed the underlying stressors, we support the systems that aren’t working and then the body starts to heal itself, right? The body’s on autopilot. We just got to get the stressors in the systems work. If the system’s working, then get the stressors out of the way.
Evan Brand: Yup. Well said. So you had some— you had some gut bugs and things going on, do you care to talk about your story for a minute with the – Hashimoto’s?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I have—I have a low level of Hashimoto’s kinda in the background, I had elevation antibodies TPO and thyroglobulin antibodies and you know, I had some adrenal stress going on. And I just really worked on fixing the gut issues, which I had a handful parasites—Blasto, uhm— yeast, significant yeast overgrowth and H. pylori. Addressing those, fixing nutrient issues to help with the antibodies, fixing the digestion, fixing gut bacteria balance is of course working on stress reduction, sleep, all those important diet and lifestyle things. And again, the antibodies for me are just still slightly elevated, but there they’re in a range where you know, functionally my thyroid is not beaten up to the point where I need any thyroid hormone. My TSH is in a pretty good place and my T3 levels are pretty good. I actually have to go on for test real soon. So, yeah, I mean it’s possible to—to address the stressors and the system dysfunction to the point where you may not— you can call yourself cure. We just won’t call you cure for me, a functional medicine perspective.
Evan Brand: Yeah. Agreed. I need to get my thyroid panel run to. You’ve been pushing me to do it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. You should.
Evan Brand: I need to do it. I mean you and I both have had these infections. I had H. pylori as well. I had a Crypto, Giardia and yeast and Pseudomonas Aeruginosa. So, you know, that’s a fun thing about Justin and I. We both had all the things that we deal with in the clinic. So when you guys are looking to work with somebody, it’s— to me it’s a lot more honorable if you’ve had somebody that’s been in the trenches themselves, where we had to fix us to keep going to help other people. I think that’s always pretty cool. Uhm— what else I know we would have limited time, but what else should we mention here about kinda this autoimmunity piece, the gut piece. We mentioned the leaky gut, we mentioned some of the triggers just in a roundabout way. So Candida, bacterial infections, parasites, H. pylori, low stomach acid, gluten in the diet, dairy, possibly eggs, other food sensitivities. These could all contribute to that permeation of the gut barrier; therefore, causing the situation.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hundred Percent. So, let me just kind of answer some of the things that you’re talking about while injecting some of the live questions we get. That’s the reason why the show is so unique compared to other shows coz we are off-the-cuff. This is the real deal here. So some patients are talking about having a lot of mucusy stools, right? And uhm— wanting to know where they should go for help, right? Of course, I recommend coming to see either myself or Evan, but typically one, we want to make sure food allergens aren’t driving this, right? Number two, we want to make sure we have enough digestive support on board to help those foods be broken down enough. So if there’s fat maldigestion issues, of course, adding in more bile salts or more lipolytic enzyme, right? Lipase— things like that. Uh— protease—proteolytic enzymes, right? These are all really important. And then, of course, once we can have the deck kinda dialed in, if foods are still a problem even with that, we may make them more palatable. We may go with more crockpot kinda GAP specific carbohydrate kind of eating template, where the foods are just easy—more processed via cooking, they aren’t raw, they are peeled or mashed. We’re decreasing salicylates and phenols and potential gut irritants so those foods can be consumed better. And then, of course, we’re gonna look deeper at the hormones because hormones have a major effect on inflammation and energy. And a lot of people that have gut issues, their guts are inflamed, we have to support the inflammation of the gut lining. And then, the big one is getting rid of the infections.
Evan Brand: Yup.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And that’s where you know, we’re probably go next.
Evan Brand: (laughs) Yes. You’re right. So uh—Cent50 here, who asked the question. Yeah, the loose, mushy stools, I mean that was me. I had Cryptosporidium, I had Giardia, I had H. Pylori, I had bacterial overgrowth. Until my gut issues were addressed, just FYI, I had IBS for 10 or 15 years of my life and conventional doctors had no solutions for my—my stools. And it wasn’t until actually cleared out the infections that my bowels and my stools became normal again. And so, yeah, you got to get yourself tested. Justin and I run several different companies. Uh—stool testing just depending on you know what—what we’re looking at. But, yeah, get a comprehensive stool test. Your conventional doctor may be able to order through your insurance, if you tell them you want diagnostic solutions Lab, it’s unlikely. You probably have a functional medicine guy like us to run it for you. But either way, once you get the diagnostic tool, you can fix this pretty quick.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: There’s a lot of healing nutrients. So like, when we work with the patient, we kinda follow that 6-hour template— template that I’ve created over the last decade or so. There’s a lot of ones that are out there— three hours, four hours. In my opinion, a lot of them stink and they’re the wrong order. So the six that I’ve created and began to follow as well, in my opinion, is the exact clinical order which I follow things. So the first hour is removing the bad foods. And again, it’s not cookie-cutter because that maybe just getting someone from a standard American diet to a Paleo template. That may be taking someone from a Paleo template to an autoimmune template. Maybe someone on an autoimmune template and the Paleo template taking them to a GAPs or specific carbohydrate diet or low FODMAP template. I had patient last week who’s been Paleo for three or four years—chronic pain, chronic issues, chronic mood issues, chronic sleep issues. We took him from a Paleo template to an autoimmune-Paleo template and all of the symptoms went away in one week.
Evan Brand: That’s it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: This is someone that’s like already been on point for a long time and we just pulled out a few foods. So we have those— that kind of progression because you’d be surprised, the smallest things that we do have a huge effect. And it’s like, whoa! you would’ve thought I would have created the awesomeness protocol ever and found a you know, this hidden infection that everyone missed and got rid of it for that kind of improvement to happen. But sometimes it happens, we’re just removing some food. So, first, I remove the foods, second, I replace enzymes, acids, digestive support, bile salts, too. Third hour is gonna be repairing the gut lining. It could be also repairing the thyroid and adrenals and sex hormones, too. Fourth hour is removing infections. That’s where we go after— bacteria, parasites, uhm—fungal overgrowth. Those kinda things. We may even go after co-infections future podcast on that soon enough. Fifth hour, repopulating or reinoculating probotics. Some of these nice and beneficial bacteria. They’re transient. They only hang out for a month or so and pass on. So, getting some of that it in there periodically is helpful. Sixth hour is retest. We want to make sure infections are gone. And maybe even address family members too to make sure they are not being passed back and forth you know, playing hot potato.
Evan Brand: Yup. Well said. Riley asked a question about—he said, “Evan is your IBS completely healed now after addressing anything?” Uhmm—kind of a confusing question about addressing anything. Yeah, I don’t have IBS anymore. I’m infection free, no more H. pylori, no more parasites, no more bacterial overgrowth, no more yeast overgrowth and I feel good and feel completely normal, which was an amazing thing because after so long, you know, it took me to be so long to get here.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. And with your situation, right? Like if you start eating bad foods again and your immune system got compromised, you may have another critter or two that pops back. You may have some inflammation from the food and such. And then those symptoms, they start coming back, right? So it’s not like a cure, like, “Hey, you have scurvy. Here’s vitamin C.” And then as long as the vitamin C is there, you’re good forever, right? It’s like, “Hey, there may be other stressors that may cause the systems to weaken again and those IBS symptoms start to occur, right?”
Evan Brand: Oh, Totally! Yeah. I mean I could go— I could go out to a restaurant and get some type of contaminated food and all the sudden creates a leaky gut situation. Maybe I pick up a gut bug, maybe I was eating while stressed during a week and I didn’t chew my food good. And then I picked up a parasite and have to start all over again. So, yeah, definitely, you know, you could always backtrack. You’re—you’re never permanently in a good place.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. And again, one thing I see out there on Facebook, and I see it marketed, and it’s– I have to call—I’m not gonna call anyone out directly—
Evan Brand: No, come on. Do it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’ll call out the concept. But lots of people, they’re like, “You gotta heal leaky gut. Here’s a gut healing program.”
Evan Brand: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And if you look at it, a lot of times, you know, it’s bone broth or just a lot of healing nutrients and a lot of probiotics, right? And maybe a little diet change. But if we go look at the six hours, what are they really doing? They’re doing the third hour, maybe a little bit of the first, maybe a little bit of the second, maybe a little bit of the fifth, right? They’re kinda skipping around. They don’t have a system and how it’s being integrated a lot of times. And I would say 99% of the time, it ignores going after and getting the infections fixed. Totally ignores it. Because you know, these people are recommending a general program to like thousand people at once in a huge kind of a webinar kind of style, right? Well, how do you get all the types of testing and customize everything in that format? You can’t. So it’s a very general kinda overview approach. And in my opinion, it’s going help some people, which I think is great. It’s admirable. But it’s also gonna a miss a lot of people and those people that don’t get help may lose faith in functional medicine or say, “This is not for me.” So I’m just kinda calling that out because think about it, right? If the root cause of what’s going on is an infection component and you’re doing let’s say the first, second, third, fifth alright but you’re not getting rid of the infection. Well that’s like me giving you this healing aloe, right? You get a sunburn, you come back from the beach, I give you this aloe, right? The underlying cause of the sunburn is the— is the sun. And then you go back out the next day and you get sunburned again and I just give you more aloe. That’s the equivalent of what a lot of these people are doing. Well, just have some more bone broth, have some more of glutamine, have some more of this healing compound for your gut lining. So we got to get to the root cause. A lot of people are just being very general out there. And you know, the listeners of our show will get it and say, “Hey, I see that the missing piece there.” And that’s why we have those six hours that way coz then you can look at it and you can say, “Hey, this is a really specific way we go about addressing things here.”
Evan Brand: Yeah. Well said, man. And that’s the food is medicine, people. And we love the food as medicine people, but that’s why you know, we pursued functional medicine because the food is just the first step, right? It’s just one pillar of the house. It’s not gonna hold the house by itself as a single column. And also, I want to mention the order—the order of operations. If somebody just go straight to bone broth and probiotics and L-glutamine, that’s the wrong order. And sometimes people get worse. They’ll come to us and say, “Oh, Justin and Evan—“
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.
Evan Brand: “I took XYZ probiotics coz I heard it on a podcast or a blog and I felt terrible and I had a flare up of my condition. Can you explain what happened?” Yes, if things are just terrible in the gut,. sometimes you have to hit the reset button. You can’t immediately just add in all these probiotics and expect it to work. Sometimes we have to fix the balance first and eradicate the bad guys before the good guys can come back in. So that’s why the order of operation is just a second when Justin said it’s so important. And this may explain why you’re spinning your wheels even though you’re all—you’re doing everything about the Paleo gurus are saying to do.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. We just want to make sure everyone’s educated. I mean, we have some people out here, they’re chiming about, “Hey, I really want a functional medicine doctor but I don’t have the—the money for it.” Well, guess what? The best thing that you can do right now is be listening to our podcast coz all this information is free.
Evan Brand: Yup.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We’re providing tens and thousands of dollars for free information off of people and I get messages all the time. “Hey, made a couple of these changes or recommendations and my autoimmune condition for 10 years is gone.” Right? I didn’t cure him. I promise. I didn’t cure him, right? The body just heals itself, right? We got to say that as our disclaimer. But that’s you know, what’s that worth. When someone is you know, seeing a rheumatologist for 20 years on lots of expensive medication that’s tearing up their gut and their body and creating more symptoms than they’re actually helping. What’s that worth? So just utilize the pickup as much of the free intel as much as possible. And then you know, allocate some savings or HSA or flex spending. So if you want to dig in deeper, that’s an option. But utilize as much of the free stuff as possible because the diet is the foundation.
Evan Brand: Yup.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 50% is gonna be the diet so work on that first. Once you max that out, and you’re seeing some decent results, then you’d want to go in deeper. You can reach out, for sure.
Evan Brand: Yeah. And you can contact likely so. You can contact your conventional doc and try to get some stuff run through insurance. But it’s likely that they don’t have accounts with these functional labs and they likely just aren’t going to do it. Fut if you’re really lucky, you’ve got a really good M.D., you may be able to push push push push at least get the lab so you have the data. Now what you do with the data? Well then maybe that’s where you come to a functional medicine guy that can help in terms of creating a protocol. But getting the data should not be impossible.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. And a lot of functional medicine docs that do a podcast or websites, I find that they take information, they wrap it up and they try to make people feel so confused where they walk away from the podcast or the video, being like, “What the hell just happened? What I do now ?” And they walk away feeling less certain. I want to make sure no one walks away from any podcast or video I do, gaining more certainty. And at least walking away with one action item that they can add into the repertoire of whether it’s a lifestyle or a supplement or just a different perspective on the6 hoir healing so they get better and they feel more confident.
Evan Brand: Yeah. I watch a couple of functional medicine videos like over the weekend and they were like hour-long videos I made it through 10 minutes. And I thought, “This is not gonna help me at all.” So I decided to turn it off. So let’s do it, let’s do our action steps and summary here.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So of course, we have our six hours, right? So everyone listening kind of our general feedback is gonna be a Paleo autoimmune template to start. And again, depending on where you’re at, that maybe really a lot of— really overwhelming for you, cutting out grains, legumes, dairy and primarily having healthy fats, proteins, uhm more veggies and fruit instead of starch. And having healthy fats like you know, if we’re doing a Paleo, maybe a little butter or ghee. If we’re going fully AIP, no nuts, no seeds, no dairy. Just coconut, Olive oil, may be avocado oil, some healthy animal fats. And that will be a good starting point for people. And then again, an AIP or an SCD or autoimmune diet, again, I’m just kinda laying out the Paleo template to start coz that’s probably the easiest buy in without pre qualifying anyone. I would say that after that, at least getting some digestive support going there. And again, you know, the ones that we formulated, we recommend the most coz we’ve put our stamp of approval. High-quality HCl or enzymes. In my line, it’s HCl supreme or enzyme synergy or I’ll add in the liver supreme for extra bile support for digest energy. And Evans line—Evan has a similar products as well. Uhm— so that’s a good starting point there. And then seeing where you’re at, I think is the next step coz there may be infections, there may be other testing that has to go in deeper. So I think if you can get that, that’s number one. And then I think if you can just make sure the hydration component and the sleep component is dialed in next, that’s a good second step. And that gives most people of really good you know, path to go down and if people are listening, they’ve already done that and they’re like, “what’s next?” well, that’s where I think you’d want to reach out and do a little bit more testing because that’s what I think the infection component and/or the hormone component and/or the nutriend malabsorption component from the infection could be the next vector we’d really have to put up in our sites, so to speak.
Evan Brand: I’m gonna address one comment here and then I’ll bring up a question then we could uh—we could wrap it up. Leslie mentioned the diet’s the foundation which kinda sucks no more pigging out in the middle of the night. The good thing is that could be related to infections. I mean for me, for example, when I had parasites, I would get these food cravings that just didn’t make sense and it wasn’t me. It’s these bugs. They are stealing your nutrients, they want food so they’re cannibalizing your muscle tissue and when you’re eating, they’re messing up your ability to digest especially coz I had H. pylori. My stomach acid levels were lower. I was basically hungry all the time and I was losing weight. Getting to like a scary point of weight loss. So really, the diet is not too hard once you just address your gut bugs, that— the whole like binging type thing on food, it really doesn’t happen once your gut is healed, once your adrenals and your thyroid are helped out and your blood sugar’s more stable. It’s not an issue. I mean you could fasted for a long time and feel stable. You shouldn’t have to get hungry or go on a crisis stage. Justin, a question for you. Uh—some doctors say T3 doesn’t matter; they don’t test it on Thyroid labs. The person’s taking T3 now slowly increasing. Would you be lowering T4 when adding this?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, I would typically be adding more than likely a T4, T3 put together so there’s gonna be a combination of both. Most doctors don’t care about uhm—T3 because the major pharmaceutical companies, Abbott’s the big one, that has a patent on Synthroid is a synthetic T4. It’s easier to monitor uhm— giving a T4 the half-life’s five days, so it’s really easy. It’s not like a T3, which could potentially have more side effects. Uhm—and it’s patentable, right? It’s the basically tetraiodothyronine with the sodium salt on it. So that’s how they get the patent to it. Uhm—again, they don’t m__ it because that’s just not what they do. They give you the T4, they get the TSH back in range. All your thyroid symptoms could still be present. Cold hands, cold feet, anxiety, mood issues, hair thinning, you know, gut here fitting things you know, gut stuff, constipation all could still be there, but if the TSH is in range, they’re happy. They checked off the list, you’re gone. So that’s where you got a dig in deeper. You got a look at the T4, T3 conversion. You got to look at the autoimmunity. You got a look at the nutrients. You gotta look at the adrenal conversion, the gut conversion connection and the liver detox conversion connection, too.
Evan Brand: Yup. Yup. Should you ignore TSH? No. It’s definitely worth factoring TSH in. You just don’t want to use that as the end-all be-all only marker. But you— but when you have the free T3 and the reverse T3, the TPO, the TG antibodies kinda all the stuff we run, the TSH makes a lot more sense when you got a full picture.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. We like to keep TSH in the equation and look at sometimes people come in with the TSH that’s perfect, but their T4 T3 conversion sucks. And then what do you do? You know when you’re treating the TSH or are you treating the actual patient? So we’ll try to increase thyroid hormones, see if symptoms change and we’ll try to support HPT access communication with specific herbs. And of course, stress modulation and getting infections— getting rid of infections coz that can really mess up the HPT access, the Hypothalamus Pituitary Thyroid connection.
Evan Brand: Yup. For sure. Uh—Leslie and a couple other comments about you know, where to go next? Well, I mean, you know, if people may say, “Oh, we’re biased.” But the answer is get tested. Our philosophy is “Test, don’t guess.” So if you’re confused, you’ve got symptoms that don’t make sense, get tested. That’s the first step. You can look at adrenals, thyroid, gut, get all the puzzle pieces laid on the table. That way you’re not just buying random supplements that you might not actually need. We’ve seen so many people with 20 and 30 supplements that they’re taking and they still feel terrible. And we cut that down to five supplements because it’s based on labs and all of a sudden people get better. So you know, save up your money for that. Maybe you don’t go buy the next newest supplement you hear about. Maybe you— you focus on investing into some testing first.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly.
Evan Brand: And you can check it out on Justin’s site. It’s Justinhealth.com You can look at the supplements, the labs on there. Same thing on my site, Evanbrand.com and we’re happy to help. So, feel free to reach out.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. And also, couple of people asked about Dr. Gundry’s The Low Lectin Protocol. I think it’s the plant paradox. Again, my thing is if you’re just going to a Paleo template, you’re gonna cut a lot of those lectins out. If you actually cook some of the plants, some of the starches, some of the vegetables and lower the lectins even more, if you still have a lot of gut issues, upgrading it to an autoimmune protocol, you decrease lectins more. If we still have issues and we can move to a specific carbohydrate or GAPS protocol and we decrease lectins even more. So it just depends on where you’re at cooking knocks a great chunk of that out and just going to a Paleo template, where we’re cutting out grains, legumes, dairy and focusing more on non-starchy veg, uhm— lower glycemic, low sugar fruits and safe starches that aren’t grain-based, you’re gonna have a huge effect and grains, where most of the lectins and irritants come from. So again, that— my opinion matches people making things a little bit more complicated than they have to be.
Evan Brand: Marketing.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.
Evan Brand: I mean, he’s done a good job that book is spread.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. It has gone viral. Everyone asked me about it all the time. I can’t get a go of a— one day without a patient asking me about it. So I have to follow it. I think I found it on fast reads on Amazon. So I got a—like uhm—abridged version of it that I’m siphoning through.
Evan Brand: Nice.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’ve got a couple of services where they do these summaries. And it’a great. I mean I get 90% of the information.
Evan Brand: Exactly.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Suck it up in a half hour and I’m like, “Oop, got it!” That’s it. On to the next one. Well, any other questions you wanted to answer here, Evan?
Evan Brand: I think that’s everything. I think that’s all we can—we can chat on today and we’re gonna do a podcast soon on co-infections. We’re gonna talk about Lyme, Bartonella and Babesia Uh—Justin and I, I mean, we’ve literally got the books like right here that we’re—we’re diving into. We wanna make sure we’re the most educated and current up-to-date with our information before we broadcast to you guys. So make sure you hit subscribe on Justin’s YouTube channel while you’re at, hit subscribe. And uh—we’ll be back again soon.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. And one last thing. Patient asked here—person asked here on the chat list, uhm—“How do you—how do you choose your functional medicine doctor? How do you trust them?” He said, “I can’t trust them. How do I choose them?” Well, number one, I think they should have some kind of content out there whether its video, audio and/or blog post where you resonate with their information. Like their philosophy, their information, you should resonate. I find most patients are the biggest reason why they don’t get better is because, number one, compliance, and number two, they’ve been burnt and the past or they failed in the past and therefore they’re kind of priming their subconscious to fail again. So they don’t follow through and they’re off to the next one other, you know, they’re making a 180 move in can’t see someone else because some little thing happened. They’re not following through enough. So I think keeping—one, making sure you choose someone based on their philosophy and the information and making sure you resonate at an emotional level and just a logical level. Here’s the plan, generally speaking, right? And then number two, making sure you’ve given enough time and then follow through uh—for it to work.
Evan Brand: Yup. Well said. I’ll address— address this last question, then we’ll roll here. Uh—Is it common to have to go through a few rounds of infection killing protocols? Yes.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It can.
Evan Brand: You can. It took me a couple of rounds to go through, some herbs to knockout things coz I have multiple infections. When you’re trying to kill five or six or seven things at once, yeah. I can’t take multiple rounds. Why is that? Depends on the person’s immune system health or stress levels, how long they’ve had infections, the amount of damage that’s there, how much inflammation is there, are they sleeping well, do they have a good diet. You know, there’s million factors to answer why that— why that could be. Hope that helps.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s great.
Evan Brand: Andrea is asking a question about his father’s prostate cancer. PSA levels are rising rapidly. Can we cast opinions or advice?
Evan Brand: I can’t. Justin?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s about thyroid, it’s about uhm— prostate issues?
Evan Brand: Yeah. Prostate. Prostate cancer this drug—Enzalutamide had been recommended for father’s prostate cancer PSA levels are rising rapidly. Can you cast opinions or advice?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, let me describe– I have one formula here that’s been helpful. Yeah. I have one compound here that I’ve been using here, just I had a couple of supplement companies reach out and I’m using it. It’s the pomegranate extract, and the flower pollen extract and its cranberry extract. So cranberry, pomegranate and flower pollen. This is an excellent support. Lot of research behind those extracts as well. Lycopene is phenomenal, getting adequate levels of selenium 200 mics a day is phenomenal, enough zinc as well is phenomenal saw palmetto’s great. These are excellent compounds that help. Lycopene is phenomenal as well. Again, the diet has to be in place. You want to get the lifestyle things going and again, these things don’t grow overnight. They probably taken decades to kind of move. So coffee and Coffee enemas may also be helpful to kind of early push detox in a faster more acute kind of way. But some couple of compounds that I mentioned are phenomenal and wouldn’t hurt getting them on board in the meantime.
Evan Brand: Yeah. And look at my podcast I did with the lady named Dr. Nasha Winters.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.
Evan Brand: She did a book that’s called, “The Metabolic Approach to Cancer” She— she had cancer herself and she’s been holistically supporting people with cancer for about 20 years. So uh— look up Nasha Winters and uh look up her book and you could implement some strategies there hopefully.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Also, get the insulin levels under control. Make sure fasting insulin is five or below at least. That’s important because insulin is gonna cause a lot of cells to grow and then also making sure xenoestrogen exposure is mitigated, right? Don’t drink out of plastic bottles, avoid pesticides and GMO’s and glyphosate and Roundup. These are chemicals that you’re gonna get from conventional foods. Obviously, eat organic, right? Pasteur-fed meats. Again, these things— I shouldn’t have to repeat them, but I just can’t assume that everyone knows these stuff.
Evan Brand: They don’t. Not everyone does. So, yeah, keep repeating it and keep preaching. And I think that’s all the questions. So we did— we did really good. That was fun.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I heard a quote back. It’s a quote from the 1940s, where Joe DiMaggio was interviewed and they said that Joe said, “We noticed that you sprint on and off the field every single time at full speed no matter what.” And he said, “Well, there may be someone coming out to see me for the first time ever that seeing me play the way I’m playing and I wanna play at 100% every time.” And then maybe some people that are coming out for the first time seeing us play here, and we want to make sure that they get that information that we may assume that other people uh— may have, right? The equivalent will be like us jogging on the field, so to speak, if we just assume that.
Evan Brand: Yup. Well said. Well, reach out if you need help. Justinhealth.com You can schedule with Justin. Evanbrand.com if you’d like to schedule consults with us. We should have some availability in the next 3 to 6 weeks or so. So just take a look and we’re happy to help you soon as we can.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, by the way, I’m adding in the Mimosa Pudica as well. So I’ll be reporting back on that in the next couple weeks. I think you as well Evan. So we’ll chat about that. Again, I just got that in stock. That’s the Para-1 in my store. I think you have it in your store as well. So, we’ll put that in the show links, too. So that’s a cool new herb that we’re working on. We have a couple other herbal compounds in the mix that we’re using for different types of co-infections that we’re researching uhm—in the background, too.
Evan Brand: Awesome.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey, Evan, great chatting with you, man. You have an awesome day. We’ll chat soon.
Evan Brand: You too. Take care
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Bye.
Evan Brand: Bye.
Fibromyalgia Natural Solutions – Dr. J Live Podcast #159
Dr. Justin Marchegiani and Evan Brand discuss about Fibromyalgia including its cause and symptoms. Learn how some of the symptoms connected to it such as anxiety, depression, IBS, memory problems are also seen in other health conditions.
Listen as they talk about some of the viruses, infections, gut health, heavy metals, thyroid and adrenal imbalances as possible contributing factors or underlying issues leading to unfavorable health symptoms. Gain some valuable information regarding natural solutions and lifestyle changes that you can do to combat these symptoms.
In this episode, we cover:
02:15 Fibromyalgia Symptoms
03:48 Viruses and Infections
07:20 Gut Health
10:31 Adrenal Issues
13:19 Heavy Metals
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s Dr. J here in the house. Evan, how we doing today? Happy Monday!
Evan Brand: Hey, man! Happy Monday to you. Life is good.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. We had a little technical difficulty here. But we are rolling. The show must go on. So, any any updates for me here that you want to bring to my attention before we dig in and get dirty?
Evan Brand: Well, I’m just excited. I’m excited to talk with you about fibromyalgia. This is one of those things in that category like IBS where the conventional doctors—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.
Evan Brand:.. give people diagnosis and then they just end up with drugs in their pockets and they don’t have any real success. And people struggle for years and years and years, they end up with these other symptoms that come along with fibromyalgia like anxiety or depression or IBS. And once again, conventional Docs, they just don’t really have a high success rate with this issue.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: A hundred percent agree. And fibromyalgia is one of these interesting types of diagnoses. Basically you have to have uh—central allodynia pain, which is kind of like this uh— pain that may be true like 11 different random spots of the body. So they look for these different pain, tender spots, shoulders, chest, hips, back. And they are looking for like at least 11 out of the 17 or so spots. And if you have it, great, you have fibromyalgia, right? Coz basically what is a central allodynia? That means your nervous system is so hypersensitive that it’s dectecting, you know, you rubbing like this, just things that shouldn’t cause pain. It’s sensing that it’s pain. And that’s the biggest issue coz the nervous system is so upregulated, it’s like having an antenna that’s so hypersensitive that it’s picking up stations uhm— that shouldn’t be picking up. And it’s the same kinda thing. Your nervous system is an antenna that’s picking up all these nociception or pain sensation where it shouldn’t be. So we want to get to the root cause of why that is. Go ahead.
Evan Brand: Yeah. There is uh—conventional drug that a lot of people end up on. The Lyrica, which I’m sure you’ve heard of.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.
Evan Brand: Huge pricing commercials for it. And I’ve had people taking that and they just don’t notice much and then sometimes the side effects, maybe not without drug, buy any of the drugs, can be worse than the actual thing that you’re trying to fix into the first place. So that’s just— it’s scary because when you want to get a root cause answered, you’re not gonna get it unless you start running some of these functional medicine testing that we’re talking about. So I just have a list of symptoms I wanted to read that could come along with the fibromyalgia. So that could be anxiety, that could be concentration and memory problems, depression, fatigue, headaches, irritable bowel syndrome. Now, that sounds like a lot of other things that we need to talk about.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. And here’s the thing, right? A lot of people may have gluten sensitivity or hypothyroidism or heavy metal issues or gut microbial imbalances, the issue is that some people may manifest with Hashimoto’s. Some may manifest with fibromyalgia symptoms who have a lot of the central allodynia pain. So it is interesting because some people, they can have the exact same core underlying issue, but have a totally different diagnosis. And all of diagnoses is a constellation of symptoms that are typically put into one category, right? The chronic pain symptoms—that’s gonna be in the fibromyalgia category. Memory symptoms—that’s gonna be in the category. Fatigue symptoms— that could be in the thyroid or adrenal category. Gut issues— depending on where that inflammation is located, that could be in the Crohn’s or Ulcerative Colitis or there’s no inflammation in the tissues that can be in the IBS category like you. So this is where it’s tough because all conventional medicine is tyring to categorize known symptoms in the categories call the “disease”. We are trying to trace it upstream. And the hard part about functional medicine is certain people can have the exact same imbalances and manifest with totally separate diseases. That’s the hardest part people to wrap their heads around.
Evan Brand: Yeah. Let’s go into the viruses. My wife when she had joint pain several years ago, you said, “Evan, the first thing you need to look into is going to be some of the viruses.” And so we got a blood test run on her. She did not show up with Lyme, fortunately, but she did show up with the cytomegalovirus and then also the mycoplasma. Can— so can you speak about those a bit? And how that could be causing joint pain that could get misdiagnosed?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: A hundred percent. So there are certain infections like mycoplasma is one of them they can manifest in the joint tissue, for sure. So that’s one of those conditions that an infection can really be driving a lot of that joint pain. And we know certain infections and certain imbalances can manifest with certain symptoms. Like we know that hypothyroid issues, low thyroid function can manifest having low thyroid hormone in joint pain. We also know like infections like mycoplasma can also cause or call the lower thyroid function and then potentially manifest in joint pain. We also know it could potentially manifest in the joints and you know certain antibiotics like Minocycline to help knock it out. We prefer to use some of the herbs coz it tends to be safer on the gut microbiome in the long run, number one. And then with your wife symptoms, we notice that she already had a pretty good diet. And there was a tick bite involved in your wife’s last issues. Is that correct?
Evan Brand: That’s right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And so because of that, you know, we were leaning towards, “Hey, let’s just to after the infection and see what happens.” And when we knocked out the infection, everything got a lot better. So that was good to see that.
Evan Brand: Yeah. It was so— it was so it was so easy, too. So simple. Just modify the immune system, all of a sudden things are better. So, if you have fibromyalgia or you have joint pain and general pain stiffness, you gotta make sure you roll those in. So go to your doctor if you’ve got a natural path or functional medicine practitioner, that’s even better. Try to get them to test you for the Lyme, plus the co-infection. So coz like I said she had a negative result for Lyme, but she was positive for these other things, Cytomegalo and the Mycoplasma. So you gotta go look for them.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hundred percent. So, again, any issue any like disease issue, like if you’re someone and we’re focusing on fibromyalgia today because that’s got a certain bit of symptoms that manifest in pain. So if you resonate with that, great. This is going to help you. If you don’t resonate with fibromyalgia symptoms, but you have something else, this podcast is still gonna be helpful because we always trace it back to the underlying imbalances, which can manifest itself in different symptoms. But one thing that’s gonna be uniform across the board is looking at the gut. The gut is really important coz that’s where a lot of your immune system is. 70 to 80% that’s where your body digests and breaks down nutrients, that’s where uhm—your— essentially you digest and break down all the food you’re eating. So if we’ve a bottleneck in the breakdown of our nutrition, we’ve a bottleneck in how our immune system functions, if we have a leaky gut and your immune system’s being overreactive, or if we have an infection there, that can create a lot of underlying stress that may manifest itself in different symptoms. And again, kinda linking it back to fibromyalgia, if you have these chronic pain issues, those 11 kind of places a central allodynia pain to touch, right? Your diagnosed 11 places of pain on your body, at least. And you have the fibromyalgia, the diagnosis, then we definitely have to rule out the gut. And again, here’s a thing that really throws people for a loop is that you can have gut issues and not have gut symptoms – that’s the really hard thing. You may not have the bloating, the gas, the diarrhea, the constipation, the acid reflux, and you may still have a gut issue.
Evan Brand: Uh-hmm. H. pylori we see it every week in the clinic. So if you’ve got H.Pylori, you’ve got that bacterial infection, that’s suppressing HCl production, therefore you’re not digesting your food. So if you’re seen floating stools or you’re seeing undigested food particles in your stool, that could all be adding up to this whole picture of the depression, the anxiety, the fatigue. Maybe even skin issues, too. So maybe you don’t have the fibromyalgia diagnoses, but you’ve got fatigue, depression, anxiety maybe some sleep problems maybe some skin issues. That could all be tied into leaky gut— that intestinal permeability. It could be something as simple as H. pylori or like Dr. Justin Marchegianientioned, it could be H. pylori plus Mycoplasma plus maybe some bacterial overgrowth like the SIBO case or plus parasites, which is something we often talk about, plus fungus. You know, typically it’s not just one thing. Most of the time, by the time people get to us, they’ve been suffering for quite a long time and therefore, there’s usually a handful of things that we’ve got to address. Now on the thyroid, is the pain going away just a side effect of you fixing your thyroid? Like all the sudden thyroid function improves and the pain just goes away. Could it be that simple if that were your biggest root cause?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well 100%. So you can see it quite frequently that just getting someone on some T3, some thyroid hormone can really help because they may be on thyroid hormone, T4, but they’re not able to convert and activate it. So there’s TSH, right? The pituitary hormone that most conventional docs measure to look at thyroid function may look nice and pretty but they’re not making that conversion from T4 to T3. So their T3 levels may be low, and if you come in there with some activated T3, you may start to put some of their thyroid symptoms on remission. Now, we have to understand, from a functional medicine perspective, what’s palliative and what’s root cause. So we have to make sure we actually fix the underlying conversion issues, if it’s nutrient or if it’s inflammationm if it’s gut, if it’s immune. And we also had to fix the underlying nutrient absorption issues, the infections, the autoimmunity, right? So whatever those issues are. So, we kinda understand that there are certain natural medicine things we can do. There are palliative, which are great. And there are certain things like, I think you mentioned earlier about the uhm—your child has a little bit of eczema and you know, putting a little bit of coconut oil in there helps. But you recognize, that’s palliative not root cause. So we try to get to the underlying foods that may be causing it. Same thing in this analogy with thyroid. And thyroid, low thyroid hormone can express itself in about 70 different symptoms—hair loss, fatigue, uhm— brain fog, anxiety, right? All these different symptoms. Also, the pain symptom is one of the.
Evan Brand: Yup. Well said. And if it’s Hashimoto’s, if it’s an autoimmune thyroid condition, that T3 could help symptoms improve. In this case, you could get more energy, could help reduce pain. But if you haven’t stop that autoimmune attack by addressing infection, supporting the adrenal glands, making sure the diet is dialled in, and you don’t have any foods that are creating antibodies against the thyroid. You know, those are some of the big three needlemovers you got to have on board to fix this thing at the root and not just be stuck on T4 or T3 or combination for the rest your life.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hundred percent. So we also know that adrenal issues— adrenal imbalance is not necessarily adrenal fatigue, of course, you know, most people in the conventional medical world will hear adrenal fatigue and think adrenal failure like Addison’s disease, okay? Which is valid but we also know that there can be imbalances in cortisol that may not be a full disease failure kind of situation. It may be just lower adrenal cortisol issues, lower DHEA because of HPA axis dysfunction. And if that’s the case, we want to make sure we support that because adrenal, zero adrenal glands produce cortisol, which is your natural anti-inflammatory hormone. And again, people that have chronic pain issues, a lot of times, we put on like COX 2 inhibitors, things like that. Severe pain, of course, Opioids is an Oxycontin, which is a another big issue in itself. But also, Prednisone and Corticosteroid drugs that basically have the ability to knock down inflammation, the problem is, why aren’t your own glands working enough to cover up that inflammation, too? So, if we get the adrenals working better, we can kinda make some of our own homemade Prednisone on our own—our own homemade Corticosteroids to help cut that inflammation down.
Evan Brand: So talk about what happens. Let’s say somebody is on the steroids long-term, that’s also going to affect the adrenals as we’ve seen on some lab results.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. It will throw off some of the feedback loop, so will disrupt the HPA axis, that’s the brain talking to the adrenals. That’s that nice feedback loop or that kind of internal thermostat that our body has. So we do have that there that we have to work on because that can affect that thermostat. Uhm—number two, it can really throw off your blood sugar. So taking a lot of synthetic steroids that when we create protocols for a patient, we may use small amounts of precursor hormones like Pregnenolone or DHEA. And these are gonna throw things off in the same way that a drug would. Because these drugs are very, very powerful. They can mess up the feedback loops. But if you’re using a corticosteroid, it can really mess up your blood sugar and in the long run, it can even create osteoporotic situations. It can really thin out the bones. It can really weaken the gut lining because these steroids break things down,right? They’re anti-inflammatory but they are also very catabolic. So it’s great in the short run, right? When we get back on track, but not good in the long run coz it can really mess up our glandular physiology. How that—how our hormonal systems work. And the feedback loops that kinda keep them connected.
Evan Brand: I think it’s worth mentioning heavy metals, too. I don’t think it’s good to be
necessarily the number one cause for most people, but we notice that if there is a gut issue, let’s say somebody does have these gut bugs, they could have a detox problems, too. Just coz their body, their liver is just so overburden. Let’s talk about metals a bit. So could be just amalgam fillings or could be occupational exposure or could be too much of a lower quality or too big of a fish like a tuna that’s causing issues. Let’s talk about that for a minute.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: 100%. So we can definitely have toxicity issues like Mercury which can be very inflammatory. Mercury also is similar to the halide group so it could fit into the receptor site where Iodine would typically bind in. Fluoride and bromine can also pinch-hit there as well. So that can create a lot of issues regarding that. Mercury can also jam up the mitochondria. I mean feel free and go to PubMed and just type in “Mercury and mitochondrial function” and you’ll see increase in heavy metals can decrease mitochondrial function. And again, as—as glycolysis and our Krebs cycle turns and we have betaoxidation on the flipside, we generate about 36 ATP’s per pump and those ATP’s work is kind of the cellular currency for energy, right? It’s how our body kind of you know, creates energy and you know, has aerobic metabolism to create ATP, which is our body functions and that’s kinda the byproduct of having a healthy metabolism.
But if we go in there and all these gears are moving spitting out all these ATP, which is basically cellular energy, and we messed that up, we throw kind of a monkey wrench into the gearbox, that’s gonna prevent optimal ATP function, which is gonna throw off our energy and our body ability—our body’s ability to function, right? Lower energy is gonna create symptoms. Anytime you have lower energy, you tend to start having brain fog issues, mood issues, fatigue issues, pain issues, sleep issues because energy is the byproduct of a healthy metabolism. So when energy goes, metabolism is going down. And when that’s starts to go, other symptoms tend to manifest as well.
Evan Brand: Yeah. I’ve gotta say two things. One is glyphosate. If you’re not 100% organic, make your goal to be a 100% organic as close as you possibly can. I love that people are honest. I had a guy who on his intake form, I asked the question, “What percentage or diet is organic?” He said 0%. I’m like, “Man, you’re getting glyphosate.” We can measure it. We can prove it on a piece paper, but just know if something is not labeled organic, especially your fruits and veggies, assume it’s contaminated with glyphosate. Just like Justin mentioned about Mercury, antibiotics, glyphosate. Those are all mitochondrial killers and so there’s nothing worse that you could possibly do than have glyphosate in your system. Now, fortunately, you can detox it by using the sauna. There’s other methods that we talked about but just make it a goal. Throw out the—you know, go donate or throw out the non-organic stuff. Swap it out. Pay the extra buck. Pay the extra 2 bucks. It’s gonna be much, much more valuable in the long-term and much cheaper in the long term because you’re gonna prevent yourself from having health issues associated with glyphosate toxicity.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hundred percent. Hundred percent. I had a conversation with someone recently that say, “Hey, you you realize organic food doesn’t have any more nutrients than conventional food.” And I said back to them,”Well, it depends.” There are some studies that do say organic food does have more nutrients. I mean there are some people that say that’s there are some studies by Temple University that shows a much higher level in nutrition with organic food than conventional food. I just think it depends on what kind of organic we’re talking about factory farm, you know, big corporations have started labeling things organic. And again, are they gonna have the same high level as a local farm regarding fertilization, you know, rotating the crops. I mean, if you just have an organic farm without pesticides, but you just continue to heat that crop season after season, don’t let it rest, don’t switch spots, and don’t you know, add synergy to the land, right? Some synergy is like, for instance, when the cows pass on their— basically have their manure, their bowel movements, you’re bringing the chickens afterwards to kind of help uh knock out all the grubs, right? Which prevents other animals from coming in. So you can add synergy to the land that helps, number one, increase uhm— fertility to the soil, right? Increases that top soil. But number two, it helps other past and creatures from growing, which can create havoc down the line. And so, in other words, uhmm—some people can really hit that soil hard and decrease the nutrient densities of the organic food. It has less nutrients, anyway. But anyway, so let’s just pretend this person is right. They told me organic food has the same nutrition as conventional food. Alright. Fine. We do know the research is quite conclusive that organic food has less pesticide residue. Of course, coz to be organic, you can’t have pesticides on it. So just the fact that— let’s the nutrient’s density is the same from organic food. While I’m definitely not getting the pesticide exposure, which Evan mentioned earlier with Glyphosate or Roundup. It’s so important. coz there are so many studies on that coming out that it’s very toxic on the body, on the liver, on the gut. And essentially many other places.
Evan Brand: You know, the European Union, they’re successfully banning it. I’ve been trying to keep up with this is much as I can. It looks like glyphosate is seeing the end of the rope in the European Union. I hope something is to follow in the US, but I just don’t think it’s gonna be anytime soon here.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I agree.
Evan Brand: One of the thing I wanted to mention is on the CDC’s website about fibromyalgia, they say that much much much higher rates of ankylosing spondylitis occur with fibromyalgia and Justin and I mentioned this on a mini podcast. That’s an autoimmune condition. And so it sounds like what they’re saying without saying it because maybe they’re not noticing the link, is that this whole thing is likely just a autoimmune issue. The IBS, like you mentioned, the Crohn’s or the Colitis, the Hashimoto’s, like this could all just be autoimmunity at the root. And we’ve just got to go through all of our causes and fix the autoimmune issue and then all of a sudden you can reverse the symptoms.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hundred percent. And again, there’s like over a 180 autoimmune conditions. So my analogy is anytime you have a physical chemical or emotional stress, or you know, imagine having this fancy pearl necklace, every time you put tight, that’s a physical chemical or emotional stressor in your life. And let’s just say every little spot where that pearl connects to the necklace, they’re not all the same strength. There maybe some part to that chain that are little bit weaker. Think of that as genetic predisposition at work. You’re gonna have certain genetic links in the chain that are going to be a little bit weaker. Now what does that mean to you, as that stress comes on, that part of the chain may be more likely to break than another part. Let’s say Pearl 33 is more likely to break them Pearl three or Pearl four, right? Now, Pearl 33 may be ankylosing spondylitis. And that stressor may be Roundup or could be Hashimoto’s or let’s say Pearl 4 is Hashimoto’s for someone else, right? So think of every little link in that chain as a different disease that could manifest if that link is broken. And where that link you for you, is gonna be based on your genetic predisposition. What we have control over is not pulling that damn chain type. Let it go. Let it relax, right? How do we do that? All of the diet and lifestyle things. Just cutting the Round up out. Eating organic. That pulls the stress off. And getting that good sleep, having good thoughts, fixing your gut, fixing infections, making sure you can digest and break down all that really good food that you’re eating. Get your hormones under control if there’s imbalances there. Does that make sense, Evan?
Evan Brand: Oh, it sure does. I mean, just like you picture a big wall think of like a submarine. You’ve got a 1000 switches in all these red switches are flipped on. We’re just gonna go down the list and just flip all those red switches off, and all of a sudden you turn off, you’ve not pulled the trigger. You’ve got the loaded gun, but we’re just gonna decide not to pull the trigger. People think that like genetic testing is the end-all be-all and “Oh, my gosh! I’m genetically predisposed to X.” It’s like that doesn’t change the protocol at all. That just means you need to be even more diligent. If your family had a history of this condition or other conditions, you just have to be more diligent. That doesn’t mean you’re toast. That doesn’t mean you’re definitely going to get XYZ disease or condition. That just mean you got pay attention. You’ve gotta make sure you’ve got all the pieces going in your favor.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And I pretty much work with the genetic stuff. I don’t get so hyper fixated on it. I just assume the worst for everyone. And that way, we’re making the changes in hydration, with sleep, with water, with toxicity, with gut. We’re not gonna give synthetic folic acid. We’re gonna give super high quality methylated B vitamins. We’re just making that assumption for everyone because I can’t be hurt by making that assumption in that direction. If I make it the opposite direction and say, “Hey, it’s okay. You probably don’t have a folate issue. I’m gonna save some money and put some crappy synthetic folic acid in my multivitamin instead of high-quality activated folate. Then I can go wrong, right? I may save a little bit of money but because we’re interfacing with our patients daily and weekly, we know that we’re better off rolling the dice in favor of there being an issue with that. So we always have the higher quality nutrients in there to cover our butts.
Evan Brand: Yeah. And I had a a woman who emailed me this morning she said, “Evan, I had a reaction to gluten. Do you think it’s time that I go get tested for celiac?” And I told her, “It’s better cheaper and likely safer just to assume that you’ve got a massive allergy to gluten,” Then you just need to stay way because really, going to the gastroenterology process where they make you eat— what is it two slices of bread for like a week or two and then they cut out a piece of your intestine to try to see if all those cilia where destroyed or flattened. And then a lot of times, there’s even false negatives there. So you could do all that work. Destroy your body, create inflammation and then say, “Oh, it says negative.” It’s like just stay away and be more diligent. Don’t tell people that it’s a preference. Just tell it— tell people at a restaurant it’s a gluten allergy. Make they change their gloves. And you’re gonna be much safer as opposed to waiting for that diagnosis. So that’s kinda what my message is. If you have these symptoms, maybe you’re not been officially diagnosed with fibromyalgia, but you’ve got these symptoms, you’ve got pain and the sleep and fatigue. Just go ahead and think, “Okay, maybe I’ve got XYZ but now I’ve just gotta start working on all these big pieces we talked about.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hundred percent. Yeah. Makes a lot of sense. And someone’s chiming in here on the YouTube live here, chat saying that uhm—their local farmer told him it’s certified organic, allows them to spray toxic pesticides two times a year. Not sure what kind of certification that is. Typically, the USDA certification’s pretty good. The fied has to be—the land has to be for three years without pesticides to even get that certification. So I’m not sure if we’re talking about the same USDA certification, number one. And a lot of farmers they’ll use other compounds that tend to be a little less toxic to help with spring. So like for instance we have our property done which had to use probiotic spray and we tend to use essential oils. And again, there may be chemicals in there, of course, but they may be harmonious and have less toxic burden. I’m more worried about the toxicity of the pesticides. And let’s say you bought an organic food that was, you know, in one of these farms that was spray twice a year, well, isn’t that gonna be better than a farm that’s sprayed weekly?
Evan Brand: Right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So I’m kinda like good-better-best. Hey, if I’m gonna cheat or if I have a choice option between something that was spray weekly versus twice a year, I’m still gonna go with twice a year because that toxicity burns is gonna be good. Also, we can just utilize the Clean 15 and the dirty dozen. Great, if we’re gonna buy a food that’s conventional or somewhat conventional with pesticides. Let’s look at the Clean 15 and see the foods that have less pesticide residue and avoid the dirty dozen and/or just get a really good uhm— vegetable or fruit wash that you can wash off some of the external pesticides at least.
Evan Brand: Yeah. And some of the regulations under the USDA, there’s a difference between 100% organic and just certified organic. So, obviously, the best thing to do which is contact a local farmer, which is what I do. I buy some bison meat and other products locally. And I know that they don’t ever use chemicals ever and if they do have to use chemicals, they’ll tell you. And they’ll say, why, what happened how much, what did they actually use. So if you just look up local harvest and go look up type in your ZIP Code, your location, go find some local people and just talk with them. That way, you don’t have to guess anymore whether something’s actually legit from the grocery store. I still go to the grocery, but I try to source other things outside where I can check the person’s hand. It’s just a lot more viable experience that way.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And again, we just have to do your best, right? Sometimes we don’t have the best options you know, when we’re traveling or we’re going out to eat. But if we can control the 80 to 90% when we’re home and we’re in our house and the foods that we choose in our area, that’s gonna be the most important thing. Also, when you’re healthy, you get a little bit more wiggle room; when you’re chronically sick, you don’t. So if you’re chronically sick, then you really got to be careful and make the best decision possible and uhm— if you’re not, then 10 to 20%, I’m totally okay with. And if you’re going to get exposed to things, activated charcoal is a great option uhm— taking some extra detox support may be helpful, too. So all that’s really good if you know you’re gonna be getting exposed to not so good things.
Evan Brand: Yeah. Take in your enzymes, too. Take in your acids, your enzymes. You and I both use enzymes that are gonna contain special ones that helps. So if you do get to it. exposed to gluten, that can help reduce the flareup. If you are sensitive, you are react to it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. And then James here, talks about uhm— his fatigue still lingers daily, can’t shake it. Thyroid tested good with me, uhm—Modafinil works great and gets me to the day. And Modafinil or Provigil aspirin is a big fan of it. Not a huge fan long term. I mean I think it’s not fixing any of the underlying issues. So the diet helps I mean I would look more at the adrenals, I’d look more at the mitochondria. I forget your specific case, James, I know you’re doing good for a while. So if you just had a backward slide recently, we’d wanna chat and figure out what underlying stressors have creeped up or make sure the infections are gone, or make sure the mitochondria are functioning as optimal as possible. So I wanna look a little bit deeper. I’m fine, though, using Modafinil Provigil punctuated time frames, you know, a work deadline comes up, major stressors you know, you have to induce some extra stuff on the weekend with your family or work stuff, then fine. Take that to really upregulate your body but just keep in mind there’s something deeper we got a look at. And just you know, things like sleep and things like hydration and people forget those all the time.
Evan Brand: Yup. Very simple but sometimes the most simple stuff moves the needle.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I mean Daniel talks about here, uh— talks about what can cause jellylike lumps in the semen sometimes painful to pass. Well first off, I would do like a urine analysis first, just to make sure there’s nothing, no UTI your uhm—you know, nothing that’s kidney or bladder base. Make sure there’s no infections in the piping, so to speak. Uh—again, I would also rule out epididymitis. Make sure there’s no infections in the epididymis. There could be a bacterial issue that’s just causing these uh— the semen to kinda agglutinate or stick together. And also, even just run a sperm analysis. Just to make sure this— the semen are actually alive and it’s not a whole bunch of dead semen uh— in there as well. So, I would look there first. If the diet’s good, if everything else is good, I would just make sure any type of infections and that urinary area are also clear too. E. coli, those kinda things.
Evan Brand: Awesome. Well, we gotta wrap up. Both of us gotta get back to our calls, but we hope you guys enjoy the show and leave us questions. You can leave us questions in the future. So if you didn’t catch this live, go to Justin’s YouTube channel. Go on his video, write in your questions, we’ll try to answer as many as we can or will save those for future show. And then same thing for topics. If you have topics that you want us to address, please put them on there. And if we need to reach out for a consult, check out Justin’s site. It’s Justinhealth.com You can schedule a consult. If you wanna schedule a consult with me, check out my site EvanBrand.com and we are happy and willing to help you. So please reach out if you’re suffering around the world, just phone in and Skype consults make it easy for us to help you.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And check us out on our podcast channels, too. We’re trying to do our videos here on YouTube, but we’re also trying to record everything in higher-quality audio. So, if you want to hear us in some higher quality audio, check out our podcast channels. Again, if you go to Evan’s site, EvanBrand.com or my site, Justinhealth.com click on the podcast and you can subscribe to get updated, audio as well. Anything else you wanted to add, Evan?
Evan Brand: I think that’s it. Awesome and Ross, yeah, Mastic Gum is great for H. Pylori. Awesome show today, Evan. Great as always. Appreciate your energy and your insights and let’s chat real soon.
Evan Brand: Likewise, man. Take care.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Take Care. Bye now.
Evan Brand: See you.
Hacking the Holidays – Dr. J Live Podcast #160
Dr. Justin Marchegiani discusses different options, substitutions and modifications that can be made during the holiday season. Learn about what ingredients to use in some of the traditional Thanksgiving dishes including the turkey, stuffing and gravy that can help to still improve your health.
Gain insight on the different modifications and options that you can use for some of your desserts so you can still indulge without having to feel guilty afterwards. Also, learn about some other cool options including meal timing, fasting, exercise and alcohol intake for a healthier you during this holiday season.
In this episode, we cover:
01:49 Grain-free holiday meal
03:01 Enzyme Support
05:55 Desserts Options
10:36 Timing Recommendations and Alcohol
Evan Brand: I am and I’ve got blue skies here which is very unusual for this time of year. We’ve got sunny every single day this week. So I’m super grateful for that.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it. Yeah, it’s a great time of the year. It’s uh— important year, time of the year to be really grateful and to be extra uh— particular in all the things that we have to be thankful for. Coz there’s a lot of things but it’s easy to be so focused on everything it’s not there. So we got to really focus on all the things that are there. So couple that is just how about, just some really good Intel that we can use to hack our holidays. Meaning we can still indulge in feel good and connect with our family members but not go into a food coma and feel like absolute crap. What do you think about that?
Evan Brand: Agreed. Yeah. A lot of our clients recommend we do this subject because they feel deprived if they’re doing AIP or some type of dietary approach. They feel like that we’re the bad guys and we’re making their holidays not as fun. But that doesn’t have to be the case.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. So, couple of things if you look at Thanksgiving, it can totally be Paleo, right? We have like basically the centerpiece in the Thanksgiving Day meal is the turkey, right? Awesome. Especially if we can go after the darker meat. That’s gonna be excellent. Good fats, right? Try to buy an organic or at least a Pasteur-fed turkey. It costs a little bit more but the nutrients are to be much higher, right? So you get good fats and proteins there. That’s the kind of a starting point. And then after that, you control your sides. So most people want mashed potatoes and maybe squash which you know, I’m okay doing a little bit more starch in the holidays. I’m okay with that. It’s better than doing, let’s say a grain-based stuffing, that’s number one. Number two, we try to substitute for the things that we typically have grains. What’s gonna have grains? Well, typically, your gravy is gonna be thickened with flour so we do a gravy that’s gonna be a carrot and celery based and we thicken it with coconut flour if we do it. And we use the actual uhm— turkey stock from the actual turkeys. That’s a huge way to get to the stuffing, I mean the gravy going. And then the stuffing there’s typically some good stuffing recipes out there where we do a celery and carrot-based stuffing and it’s totally grain-free and it taste phenomenal. So, off the bat, you can have your starches. I’m okay with that. Number two, you have the gravy. Because the gravy kinda goes on everything. So if your gravy isn’t too good, you can really mess everything up coz you just basically coating everything with thickened uh—turkey giblets and flour. And then uhm—then after that, you have I mentioned your starches and then after that you can do cranberry sauce, really, you know, super Paleo. You can do like, I’ll do green beans and I’ll cut up some bacon, I’ll layer that on there, too. Uhm—those are kinda my big things off the bat and of course, a really good turkey. We’re gonna smoke our turkey this year. We typically use our smoker this time of the year. Any other thoughts, Evan, off the bat for your? Just with the Thanksgiving Day meal?
Evan Brand: Well, my thoughts are you got me hungry but besides that—<laughs>
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: <laughs>
Evan Brand: But besides that, the enzyme piece.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.
Evan Brand: You and want to talk about enzyme.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.
Evan Brand: So let’s go into that. So one’s that you and I were talking about off-air was one from designs for health. It’s called allerGzyme. And this is more specific to people that if they’re just going to go off the rails, they are going to do or get it possibly get exposed maybe a cross-reactive issue with dairy or egg or soy or gluten or casein peanuts, things like that. You can take the specific enzymes. They’ve got like a patented version they call it what, Glutalytic in there.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.
Evan Brand: It is supposed to be pretty helpful. And they’ve got bromelain. Way but it’s a very, very super high dose bromelain which is a pineapple enzyme. It’s a really good enzyme. So there’s that. And then you and I both have our own custom digestive enzyme formulas that I say those are the best nutritional insurance policies that you can bring with you like a little glass jar or something.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Especially the fact that people forget that I uhm— having a meal like that is gonna be stressful not necessarily because it’s bad because obviously we’re gonna try to make the substitutes. We’re not gonna focus on eliminating. We’re gonna focus on substituting. So we have the most healthiest options possible but because we’re probably gonna eat such a ton of food, it’s going to be a lot for our digestive system to handle. So we’re gonna really utilize more enzymes and more HCl and maybe even some bile salts to really optimize our ability to actually break it down.
Evan Brand: Yeah. I love it. I’ve got a small little old honey jar that my wife just keeps in her personnel and so if we go out to restaurant or if we got to family member, I’m just gonna pull out those enzymes and popp them down. So that’s can be my strategy and I think everybody who is dealing with bloating, gas, indigestion, a lot of these common symptoms heartburn, you’ve got that excessive heaviness feeling.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: If you already got those symptoms and it’s not even Thanksgiving yet, then you’re a person who needs extra care when it comes to using enzymes.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. So we talked about the meal. We talked about maybe the potatoes and/or the sweet potatoes or the squash. I’ll typically put some extra cinnamon on my squash, too, which is great for blood sugar. And the blood sugar and the insulin kina receptor sites that which is good. I talked about the green beans. I talked about how to maximize the gravy because the gravy is one of those things that’s gonna be layered on everything. So if you can fix the gravy component— and we’ll have in the show notes some Paleo uhm— gravy recipes so we’ll make sure we get some Paleo recipes in the notes. Uh—we’ll make sure we get some stuffing recipes. Coz those are gonna be the the big— the big things—the gravy and the stuffing. Almost everything else, you can dial it in. The turkey’s pretty good. You can do really good cranberry sauce, you can do uhm— squash, you can do sweet potatoes, you can do regular potatoes or any other sides that we’re missing.
Evan Brand: Yeah. You hit the green beans.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: Sometimes peas, sometimes carrots you.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.
Evan Brand: I think honestly, if you’re eating real food and you just always think, “Am I eating real food?” you’re gonna be just fine.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Then a couple of things—let’s go to desserts pretty fast. So we’re just kinda laying out the meal options or the meal substitutes, I should say, and then we’ll talk about little hacks that you can incorporate, too. So, off the, my Paleo Apple Crisp is something that I utilize a lot. I actually have it made once a week and it’s basically just a combination of the crust, which is gonna be coconut shreds, pecans and walnuts, kinda crushed up. And it’s gonna be kinda layered over some Granny Smith apples that are cut up. And the Granny Smith apples are basically mixed with butter. And they’re also gonna have a little bit of cinnamon on them and then we also have a little bit—
Evan Brand: I need this.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: .. a little bit of organic palm cane sugar. And we like the organic palm cane coconut sugar because it’s got a glycemic index of 15. So it goes into your bloodstream a little bit slower and we try to use the least amount possible. So what I recommend is put the smallest amount whether it’s like uhm an eight of a cup or something in there. And just kinda glaze it and then mix it up. And then try a couple before you know, layer all the nuts and cook it. And then just see if it’s at the sweetness you want. So I don’t need a lot. I just put a very, very small amount. Once I have it, you know, typically, an eighth of the cup or sixteenth of a cup, a very—typically, I just glaze it. I don’t even h measure it. I just gently glaze it over so very small amount. And then once I have it to taste, then I pretty much put uhm—then it’s mixed with butter, of course, right? And then I put that topping right on top and there and then 350 for 30 to 45 minutes till the apples are nice and soft. And then you’re pretty much good to go.
Evan Brand: That sounds delicious. Did you invent that recipe or is that something you found?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: No, I invented that one. That’s a good one. And then if you want mix it up, too, you want to make it more like a cake, you can do uhm—a tapioca and arrowroot flower and then typically you just add the arrowroot flour in with the apples, typically, half a cup to cup each. And then that kind of gives that more of a thickened flavor. And then you can just bake it not use the nuts. And then it comes more like a cake. And that’s a really good option. We have that Apple cake option on there, too. So, apple cake and/or uhm— the Paleo Apple Crisp. Apple crisp I think is a little bit more healthy coz you don’t’ have any flours in there. They’re all just a good healthy nuts and fats.
Evan Brand: Right. Yeah. I have a female client last week. She said she’s going to make a like a pumpkin pie but she’s going to do coconut flour and I think she said coconut flour and Coke and cashews maybe. So I know that there’s options out there. I just don’t eat too much dessert anyway, you know, besides a good piece of chocolate. But if you’re somebody who you’re going to go to one of these events and you think, “You know what I don’t want to miss out” Well then you just make it. You know, let everybody else bring the meat and veggies. You just bring a healthy dessert. That way, you know that you’re gonna be safe and you’re not gonna cause yourself a flare-up or new problems.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. For the most part, your turkey’s gonna be good, right? If you’re gonna do your mashed potatoes, fine. If you do cranberry sauce, if you’re gonna do squash, if you’re gonna do green beans or will do like uhm— Brussels sprouts with bacon, that’s typically gonna be good. You’re gonna mess it up with the excess uhm—gravy. So do the gravy right way and you do a healthy stuffing options. So I recommend is if you’re going somewhere, maybe you bring some gravy, or if you don’t bring the gravy, maybe you just uhm— bring the stuffing. And people won’t even know. We bring some of these healthy Paleo options we go places to get invited. People wouldn’t even know the difference a lot of times.
Evan Brand: Exactly.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: The big thing is for me it’s about, it’s not about, “Oh, Dr. J, you’re being, you know, such uh—so tight about this. You know, why can’t you roll?” Well, the reason why is I wanna feel freaking good afterwards.
Evan Brand: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I wanna eat a lot and I want to feel good. And there are great options and I don’t notice a difference in flavor. I can make my option and it will taste just as good. So those are some good options. Anything else you want—Oh, also dessert. Just, you know, if you’re doing a pumpkin pie, you can just leave out the crust are there some really good gluten-free, crust options or you can do coconut uhm— crust option. That’s fine. And you can just do your pumpkin pie without you know, just the lower amount of sugar. That’s totally good right there. Uhm— is or anything else you want to mention for desserts outside of the Apple Crisp?
Evan Brand: I think you covered it. I mean you could bring along a piece of dark chocolate if you’re just super scared and you don’t want to go for any of the more processed things. Bring a cup— bring a bar of dark chocolate with there on the fridge when you get to your family’s house.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And again, you could do Pecan Pie a little bit higher in sugar. You just have to make sure the crust is gluten-free. That’s totally fine, too. And obviously, just some really good maybe some coconut ice cream, coconut vanilla ice cream’s totally cool. And then what about supplement options? So we talked about, number one, the enzymes, HCL and digestive support. Number two, you could always add in some activated charcoal.
Evan Brand: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Activated charcoal. Number three, you could always throw in some probiotics later just to kinda help soothe and relax the tummy. Number four, well how about the approach like when do we eat the meals? So, number one, I recommend intermittent fasting and adding in some exercise in the morning. Even if it’s just a quick Tabata, or just a quick little weightlifting circuit where you kinda do upper-lower, upper-lower and just kind of a simple circuit for 15-20 minutes. Just something in the morning to really get the metabolism revved up. You may fast a little bit more. You may hold that fast a little bit longer than normal because you know that your gonna feast at the end of the day and all those calories will be coming in there to make up for that deficiency. Most aren’t gonna be working out on Thanksgiving. They’re gonna be relaxing and so it’s not as big of a deal.
Evan Brand: How about alcohol? You mentioned that off-air. You said we need to make sure we talk about that. So you’re recommending after meals instead of before meals saving?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, yeah, I recommend just have a little bit. Well, number one, there’s a couple of strategy. So I may do one glass just to kinda get that buzz in my system fast. It’s like, “Ooh, I could feel it.” And then I’ll throw maybe a couple of things, a charcoal in, and then maybe there will be like a shrimp cocktail out and have a couple of little shrimps just to kinda get the protein, fat in there which kinda stabilizes my blood sugar level a little bit more so I’m not gonna go wonky. And then I typically just go with like a dry champagne or a dry Prosseco. So it’s very dry kind of a demi-sack, not a lot of sugar white and I like the sparkling. The sparkling has been shown to increase alcohol absorption. There was a—one study out of a bunch of college students. Can you imagine that? I would love to have been in the study in college where they gave them shots of vodka and then the other group got shots of vodka with carbonated water or like soda water. And they measured their blood-alcohol content and they found that the group that had the bubbles with their vodka had a much higher blood alcohol content for the same amount of alcohol. So, go figure. So what’s the moral of the story? You get— your alcohol goes for little bit longer of array when there’s little bit of carbonation or, bubbles in there. And James is saying, “What about Cheetos?” Yeah. So I would do Cheetos with my ginger Kombucha and a little bit of lime. The lime provides extra vitamin C, which is great for glutathione. The Kombucha has extra B vitamins and antioxidants and EGCG in there and uhm—probiotics. So it actually helps detoxify and help your gut microbes while you get a little tipsy.
Evan Brand: See that almost makes me wanna drink alcohol but every time I drink alcohol, I feel like I can’t comprehend simple things, like I like to I like to always have my brain going going going.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.
Evan Brand: And for me to shut off with the alcohol, it’s almost stressful. It’s almost like, “Nope, my brain is slowing down.” I don’t like this.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, we should make sure the demand on our brain is less.
Evan Brand: Right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: When the time—we’re not gonna be like opening up the champagne bottles when we’re seeing patients, right?
Evan Brand: Right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We wanna make sure our patients get a 100% of our brain capacity. But when it’s the holidays and we’re just watching some football, and our brain is like 80% off, maybe it’s not that big of a deal.
Evan Brand: <laughs> For sure.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. But, yeah, we have the activated charcoal. We just have really good quality alcohol. Uhm— again, why does it matter? Coz I don’t want a headache. I don’t wanna feel crappy. I don’t want a ton of breakouts the next day. So we’ll choose uh—and typically, I’ll just get $15 bottle of really good dry Prosseco from Whole Foods. And I try to, you know, if I can go organic or you know, typically, the dryer ones are not gonna have as much sugar. It’s the sugar that’s gonna really throw you off. Uhm—you can also do the dry Creek wines. They have some decent stuff. Again, they don’t have a lot of bubbles like a lot of spike, Prosecco, I do that because number one, it helps with alcohol absorption. Number two, I just like the bubbles. They don’t have a lot of options with that. So I will check out some of the whole foods or local stores, they have a very low sugar like as for a brewed or a Demi-Sec uhm—Prosecco option.
Evan Brand: The holidays are fun.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: They are. Absolutely!
Evan Brand: I think our next month of episodes is probably be silly. It’s coz that’s the that the holiday vibe. It’s relaxing. It’s like, you know what, the summer time things have cooled off. It’s time to relax, time to rekindle, time to cuddle up, snuggle under your wool blanket next to a fireplace. This is a good time of the year.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I got a fireplace in my office so it’s actually nice coz I actually get to use it this time of the year, so—
Evan Brand: That’s awesome.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So my dog just like—it’s basically a magnet for my dog. She just kinda—next to it all day. But, yeah, totally. And then uhm—you mentioned a couple things there. We talked about the alco—so yeah, really getting the exercise component going. Coz that really is gonna wring out a lot of the glycogen in your muscles. So think of glycogen as stored carbohydrate in your muscles and imagine you wringing that muscle out. You’re wringing that sponge out so all of that water in the sponge, all that glucose stored in the muscle now gets used up doing the exercise. Now what does that do? It’s like, well, it’s the equivalent of going and having a nice dry sponge to sop up a whole bunch of liquid drink that your kid knocked over, right? So you can just— that sponge is gonna work a lot better and be more absorbent. Think of your muscles as being more absorbent. So when you get extra carbohydrates into your uhm— body from your meal in your celebration that you’ll have a bigger sponge to soak it up.
Evan Brand: That’s a good idea. I don’t know if many people act on it but if they do, they’re gonna see a really good result. Here’s a question for Mike. He says, “It’s crazy. My Oura ring consistently shows my sleeping heart rate 5 to 15 bpm higher even after having just two drinks like red wine. I feel it the next morning. Any suggestions?” Justin, I know what you’re gonna say. Go ahead.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, alcohol can drop blood pressure. So it could be your blood pressure is lower than your heart has to be a little bit faster the compensate for that drop in blood pressure. That’s probably what it is.
Evan Brand: So you’re thinking maybe you don’t need suggestions. So I thought you might say, “Oh, just are you doing charcoal? Make sure you do charcoal.”
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Of course, right? Like of course, extra charcoal. We can always throw some vitamin C in there, add in L cysteine. And we could even throw in, yeah like in our lines, we can throw in some detox aminos which is kind like your sulfur base, kinda NAC with a whole bunch of other sulfur amino acid in there. That— that’d be fine. I mean, I would do that. You can also throw a little bit of magnesium in there to uhm— to help with the with that component. But uhm—yeah, I would just look at potentially that just being the alcohol and just do all the things that help detoxify.
Evan Brand: Okay. Cool. Awesome. I think that’s everything we’ve hit. I don’t know if there’s any other piece to the holidays you wanted to go over.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I would try to time off like for me, I notice if I have felt any alcohol in my system when I go to sleep, I do not sleep nearly as good so I tried to give myself like a good three-hour washout period before bed. So I don’t have you know a lot of alcohol in my system. I just don’t sleep as good. I literally have more nightmares, I’m more active, I move around the bed a lot more. I had a glass of champagne before bed like a week or two ago and I like literally woke up at a right angle. So I was like laying across the whole head. I’m just way more active. Normally, I don’t move much at all. So again, if I I had that like at seven and I went to bed at like 10, it wouldn’t be a problem. But if I’m having it right up against bedtime, sometimes it could be the__ plus you know, I’m— I don’t know what the alcohol is when I go out if I order it. I try to order, you know, a nice low sugar kind but you have the bottle in front you look at it, so you just try to go off the waiter’s suggestions.
Evan Brand: Exactly. Yeah. I think it’s all good advice the liver-gallbladder support. I mean, that’s always helpful, too. So if it’s milk thistle or if it’s your Cordyceps mushroom. I mean there’s a lot of different products we use for for liver gallbladder support. One of the thing I was gonna mention, too, make sure that you check in with your practitioner if it’s Justin or myself. If you’re taking anti-parasitic herbs, some of these herbs can get intensified with alcohol. So one glass of wine may feel like four. You may not be able to make it home. See—take a look and see what you’re actually using. I know some of these can create that sensitivity up.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. Any other suggestions just like meal wise or anything that you guys are doing with your family for the holidays?
Evan Brand: I’m gonna bring some snacks just in case. I mean we don’t know the full spread coz we’re gonna go to like three or four different events.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s tough.
Evan Brand: ..this week and we don’t know exactly what people are cooking, what people are bringing. So just in case, I’m just gonna go ahead and bring uh—I’ve got a couple of some jerky like some jerky strips like some grass-fed steak strips that I’ve got and then I’ve also got a handful of macadamia’s of customer cons would also have coconut chips so I’m just gonna bring some snacks just have that in my wife’s purse just in case just in case we get somewhere and it’s just— I have been to a couple events where it was literally like a casserole, it was covered in cheese and that was the only—that was like the main entrée. There’s no way I could do this.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.
Evan Brand: Like you know, with enzymes, I’d be destroyed so uh—that’s— that’s about it. Just be prepared boy scout. Act like I was going to place that had no food.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. And again, there are some people out there where they may be really happy with her health right now. They’re just like, “Hey, this is a once a year thing and I’m just gonna cheat and really enjoy it. And that’s fine, too. But you know, still you can utilize some of the supplements and strategies we recommended so you at least doesn’t hit you as hard. And if you want to wreck if you want to apply some of the substitutes that Evan and I apply, and I’ve done it for years that in my opinion allow me to continue to feel good. I just— for me, it’s not just feeling good that day. I got four days off work. I don’t take a lot of time off. I wanna feel good for those four days and I also don’t want to get sick either.
Evan Brand: Yup. Exactly.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, any other thoughts, Evan?
Evan Brand: I think that’s it.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So any other plans for you this week? Are you taking some time off from patients or—?
Evan Brand: Yeah. So Thursday, Thursday- Friday I’ll be taking some time off. My wife she’s can go out and participate in the consumer holiday on Friday. And I think that’s about it. I’m gonna try to spend some time out in the woods. I may— I may go out and and go for a deer hunt again. I want to get my own dear this year. 99% of it is just sitting out in nature listening to the birds but may be .01% of the time an animal walks by.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.
Evan Brand: Really, it’s just my excuse to go do some forest bathing. I may try to do that.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: What’s the Japanese term for that?
Evan Brand: Shinrin Yoku.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Shinrin Yoku. I love that, man. That is crazy. Cool. And we also add another herb to our parasite killing line, too. The mimosa Pudica. So I know will be adding that to our stores in the next week or two. It’s one of those things that we are kind of experimenting with. We’re helping to kill bugs and some of the wormies. So it’s something out there that if your patient and you want to inquire about that, we can chat about that very soon.
Evan Brand: Yeah. Stay tuned. I’ve gotten many, many pictures in my inbox of worms that people are pooping out from using this Mimosa Pudica. I was just a guest on the parasite summit, which is how I learned about this formula. And tons of people are taking it now and everybody’s saying, “Oh my God! My stool test showed up negative but I took this stuff anyway. And here’s what I pooped out. Surprise!” And it’s pretty nasty stuff. So Justin and I are talking off like, “Are you going to try some of the stuff?” I’m guessing we’re gonna have to because we’ve been guinea pigs for everything else. So, who knows if we’ve got some hidden—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. Well, what a great call today here, Evan. Happy holidays and Happy Thanksgiving for you and your family. And we’ll talk next week.
Evan Brand: Take care.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You, too.
Evan Brand: Likewise. Bye.
Benefits of a Food Elimination Diet
By Dr. Justin Marchegiani
What is an Elimination Diet?
An elimination diet is an eating plan whose goal is to determine food allergies and intolerances. It is a short-term plan, usually lasting between 3-6 weeks, that allows a person to learn which foods may be causing digestive distress, skin irritation, and brain fog. In an elimination diet, certain foods are cut out of the diet for a few weeks, before being slowly reintroduced, one-by-one, in order to pinpoint troublesome foods.
What to Eliminate
The law requires foods to be labeled if they contain common allergens. The eight foods identified by the FDA are:
- Fish (e.g., bass, flounder, cod)
- Crustacean shellfish (e.g., crab, lobster, shrimp)
- Tree nuts (e.g., almonds, walnuts, pecans)
These eight foods constitute over 90% of allergic reactions! However, allergy tests don’t pick up on food intolerances and sensitivities.
Foods to eliminate in a food elimination diet include some of the common allergens listed above: gluten, dairy, soy, and nuts, but also encompass the common culprits of inflammation, digestion issues, and brain fog. These include nightshades (eggplant, peppers, tomatoes, and potatoes), alcohol, and processed sugar!
Benefits of a Food Elimination Plan
Eliminating sources of inflammation will allow your body to heal and can enact a plethora of positive changes within your body.
Recovery from Leaky Gut Syndrome: Leaky gut occurs when the intestinal lining becomes inflamed, which can be caused by the consumption of gluten, sugar, or other foods you are sensitive to. The inflamed gut lining allows food particles and other toxins to slip through into the bloodstream, creating more inflammation. By eliminating the foods that cause the gut to become inflamed, it is possible to break the cycle and heal your gut!
Reduce skin irritations, such as eczema and acne: Dairy and grains are two food groups which studies have shown have a strong link to acne and other skin irritations. Try cutting them out of your diet and watch your skin clear up in just a few weeks.
Prevent/treat learning and attention disorders: Studies have shown that a strict elimination diet can treat symptoms of (and in some cases defeat!) ADHD. There is promising research showing that even just avoiding artificial colors and preservatives can also lessen symptoms.
Reduce migraines: You may have heard the gut referred to as the “second brain.” In addition to all the functions, the gut is in control of, the gut actually communicates with your brain as well! An inflamed gut (due to consuming “bad” foods), can send signals to your brain signaling migraines and headaches.
Reduce bloating, diarrhea, and constipation: We’ve all experienced the feeling in our stomach after eating something we know we shouldn’t have had. Eating problem foods causes a relatively immediate stomach ache and possibly diarrhea, but regularly eating foods you are sensitive to – even unknowingly – can actually cause long term gastrointestinal distress! People who have gone on food elimination diets often say they didn’t know there was something wrong until they cut out the foods that were causing them to suffer. It’s like a weight lifted from your shoulders!
Bonus: add in a quality probiotic supplement to help your good gut bacteria rebuild!
Help heal autoimmune conditions: Food sensitivities can create and worsen autoimmune disease. Not only is it possible to stop the severity of your autoimmune disease from worsening, but it is even possible to reverse your autoimmune disease by removing inflammatory problem foods!
Starting a Food Elimination Diet
If you suffer from digestive distress, skin breakouts, rashes, or suspect you might have a food allergy or intolerance, an elimination diet is always a good idea. The antibodies your immune system makes when it reacts to a problematic food you’ve eaten take about 3 weeks to dissipate; imagine feeling like a whole new person in only 3 weeks!
A food elimination diet generally last between 3-6 weeks, and can focus on one or two specific foods, or it can target a wide range of foods. For a preview of what an elimination diet looks like, and when to add foods back in, check out our post outlining what you can eat and when you should reintroduce foods.
Using Spore-based Probiotics (Sporebiotics) to Improve Your Health – Live Podcast #157
Dr. Justin Marchegiani and Evan Brand talk about spore probiotics and their importance in modulating the immune system. Learn about Th1 and Th2 immune system, understand the negative effect of vaccines on them and know the role of probiotics in the imbalances created by vaccines.
Gain information on some of the probiotics strains and know how their acidity and timing of intake impacts absorption. Discover the answers and explanations to questions about lectins and digestive enzymes in relation to probiotics.
In this episode, we cover:
03:00 EMF’s and Infections
06:29 L. Gasseri and Histamine
09:16 Th1, Th2 immune system
18:55 Paleo template and IBS
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yo, yo, yo! It’s Dr. J here in the house. It’s a great, magnificent Monday. I got my little Topo Chico, a little sparkling bubbles here. Evan, how was your weekend, man?
Evan Brand: Oh, life is good. I don’t remember the weekend. The weekends are so weird once you have a baby. I’m sure you figured out the same thing. The weekend is just like, it go by and then all of a sudden, it’s Monday again. And I just love working so much that it’s like, “Oh, it’s Monday, my favorite day of the week.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I feel the same way, too. I love Mondays coz I love getting back in the swing and creating content and seeing patients and getting all these uh—great feedbacks of people getting better or you know, you get challenging cases that really cause you to roll up your sleeves. So I definitely like that, for sure.
Evan Brand: Me too. And how was it for you?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It was great. Uhm—this weekend, my wife—coz we’ve been—we had a baby like a month and a half ago, it’s the August 21st and for the first, she went out Friday and Saturday night. And I had babysitting duty. It was great.
Evan Brand: Oh man, I’ve never done that myself_ the 15th month old.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Not yet? Yes. She went out and she gave me a bottle, you know breast milk in a bottle. And just gave me uh—you know, a little bottle but, you know, it created a little balance there because she’s been basically breast-feeding often on every hour or two for the last six weeks. It’s hard because she was—
Evan Brand: Did she text you the whole time missing the baby?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, I was kinda giving her updates. But she was feeding, doing the SNS and then pumping and then the time that all finished, the next feeding started in 45 minutes. You can imagine that for five or six weeks. It’s really hard. Now it’s getting like two hours after or an hour and a half to two hours. So now it’s like, “Oh, it’s getting a little bit better.” You know, two hours, you can at least close your eyes and get a little bit of be restorative sleep in there. So that’s good.
Evan Brand: That’s great. Cool. So you were uh—you were the babysitter.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s it, man.
Evan Brand: That’s awesome.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Life is— it’s crazy how life is, man. Just things continue to evolve and you get satisfaction out of different things. You wouldn’t think it. Holding your baby and having them smile at you or just hold your finger whatever could be that satisfying but—ain’t it funny how that all changes?
Evan Brand: I know, man. It’s great. It’s like DNA trick. So we’ll take care of them.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. Now, we wanted to talk today about the probiotic, speaking of DNA. We want to talk about probiotics. And probiotics—again, we’re gonna hone the topics. We talked about probiotics before but we’re gonna really address the area of spore probiotics which are like the cell walls of the specific spores called bacillus spores. There’s a couple that we use in our clinic called Bacillus Clausii Subtilis and Coagulans. Bacillus Coagulans, Subtilis and Clausii. Those are the big ones that we use and these are the basically the cell wall of these kind of bacteria which is the spore. And they have an awesome, awesome benefit of modulating the immune system. Couple other things we find – a lot of these microbes in our body— fungus and bacteria and parasites— EMF’s or electromagnetic frequencies have a real negative effect on making these infections worse. And what refining is some of these bacillus strains, some of the spore strength can really help combat against the negative effects that EMF has with some of these critters. That’s another good benefit. I’ll open up the floor to you here, Evan.
Evan Brand: Yeah. So EMF— I mean I’ve done episodes on this since the inception of the podcast in 2012. So it was five years of talking about it in some shape or form. The more I learn about it, the more that I learned it affects everybody’s systems. So like you just say, uh—I’m gonna say it in a different way. The EMF can actually strengthen the virulence of these infections. So someone’s got parasites, yeast, fungus— we may need to look at bringing probiotics in and really upping and upping and upping the beneficial bacteria to try to counteract the effects of EMF. Now just because you’re not sensitive to EMF, doesn’t mean that it’s not a factor, right? You might not have the headaches or the— the ringing of the ears that a lot of people talk about where the heart palpitations. Like you may not have true EHS like Electronic Hypersensitivity Syndrome or EHS or they have different names for. If you’re not that sensitive, it doesn’t matter. You’re still going to benefit by protecting yourself and protecting your microbes by using either these bacillus spores that we’re going to talk about or just by using other types of probiotics. And at the right time, uh— one thing I wanted you to hit on Justin is talk about the timing of bed and how we can work this in because many people go to whole foods and they buy a probiotic and they take it and then come back to us and they say, “Dr. J and Evan, I took probiotics and I feel worse. What’s going on?” It’s all about timing.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes. So there’s a couple different things. So a lot of probiotics like your bacillus uh—sorry—your lactobacillus, acidophilus, right? Your bifidobacter kinds of probiotics, right? These probiotics tend to be more acid-sensitive. Now there are some that Evan has in his line that are acid-resistant because during this—this like a sphere that it kind of is acid-resistant. And taking that and kinda get through some of stomach acid. We may also just hide it on an empty stomach to bypass the stomach acid so we can have that bacteria intact when it gets to the small intestines, the colon. And then we can have a lot of benefits with immune modulation. We can have uhm— a lot of benefits of boosting up the healthy bacteria so we get better B vitamin pers—uhm— increase coz we get the good bacteria produce a B vitamins. Also, healthy bacteria, I know with the bacillus strains that we see, one of the great things as it helps convert sugar to vitamin C. And vitamin C is super important for collagen, for immune function, for oxidative stress, right? Oxidation is the apple that you cut open then it sits on the countertop and turned brown or the nail left outside that gets rusty. That’s oxidation. That’s a loss of an electron. Antioxidants like vitamin C can help donate electrons to prevent the oxidative stress. So healthy bacteria and particularly the bacillus strains can really help with the vitamin C uhm— conversion from sugar, which is great. And then your other strains like the bac—like the lactobacillus acidophilus, right? These produce acids, which are great coz acid– acidic environment actually keeps a lot of the bad bacteria and fungus in check from growing. That’s why a lot of people do great with apple cider vinegar. It is like this cure-all because the acetic acid has got a very low pH that makes it really hard for microbes and not so nice microbes to work and also can stimulate your own HCl production as well.
Evan Brand: Yup. We have a question from Haley. She said she read that the strain L Gasseri reduces histamine. Have you ever heard of this? Yes. I have heard of certain strains of probiotics helping to reduce histamine. I don’t know if this is correct, but I remember seeing that the Rhamnosus species—I could try find this journal I had bookmarked— I believe the lactobacillus Rhamnosus was something that actually increase histamine, which is why some people may feel worse. I just found it here. Histamine production by lactobacillus Rhamnosus. And Haley just said she read other strains can increase. Yeah. I’ve read the same thing as well, which is why typically, we’re gonna use a combination. And we’ll likely going to have a blend. So if you’ve got some things that are stabilizing histamine, you’re typically going to counteract the other one that could increase histamine.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Again, people that typically are histamine-sensitive, a lot of times probiotics in general can create histamine intolerance. Uhm— so I see a lot of people that will just do a really good, you know, lactobacillus or bifido bacter or lactobacillus plantarum, whatever, like that may cause them to get bloated or gassy. If they are probiotic intolerant, one of the things we go to is we go to a spore-like probiotic because people that are histamine-sensitive tend to be able to tolerate that well. And one thing we like about the bacillus spores is it’s acid resistant. So you can actually take it with food, which can make it a little bit easier to process than taking it may be on empty stomach. So we like that.
Evan Brand: Yeah. Now, like you mentioned, you and I use some specific types of probiotics out there. They can have an encapsulating technology, where you can reserve them.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.
Evan Brand: So this doesn’t mean that you have to ditch all other probiotics. It just means unless you’re using the formulas that Justin and I have, if you’re not using ours, then you want to use a spore-based because all the other ones, unless it says, “Hey we’ve got some special— if you’re looking at the label— unless it says, “Hey we got a special tableting technology that protects from stomach acid” you’re kinda wasting your money on most of the probiotics.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, absolutely. I know the ones that we typically use they will put like colony forming units on there, which you know, that’s like how many probiotics that are in there. There’s a couple of things to look at. Number one is— is that the colony forming units of the probiotic that were put in there when it was bottled? Or how many they expect to be in their expiration one or two years later? So number one, when we put the CFU on that bottle, that’s gonna be how many we expect to be there in 1 to 2 years later when it expires. So, you’re ideally adding so many extra in there. So you’re compensating for potential things that may knock it out like heat or shipping or storage stuff. Just things that are normal with getting that product to the patient. So when you know what’s in the bottle there, you’re typically getting more than what’s in the bottle because we have to make sure we overshoot and compensate for all the little mishaps that may lower it.
Evan Brand: Right. Well said. So, talk about the immune system a bit. You wrote some notes before the show about the TH1 and the TH2 immune system. Can you talk us through that and kinda break down what TH1 is, and 2, which some of us are TH2 dominant in the modern world now mainly from vaccines. And that the TH1 system, this kind of seesaw can be balanced out with the use of these spore probiotics.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Great question, Evan. So a lot of people their TH2 immune system is over stimulated and your TH2 immune system— think about it— it’s the antibody-based immune system. It’s the humoral-based immune system. So the whole goal of like your immune system is you have like the front-line defense. This is like the Army Rangers, the Delta team; Seal team six, the Navy SEAL’s, right? These are the people, they get in there first and they make—they make stuff happen, right? These are the guys that go in there first. They radio back and then the infantry comes in second, right? So they give the infantry, they come in a few days later once they got Intel and you know everything’s been surveilled, right? All the special forces, they radio in the special forces are the cytotoxic or the natural killer kind of that cytotoxic first branch of the immune system, the TH1. And the TH2 is kinda more that delayed antibody-based immune system that comes in after the fact. And when we look at what vaccinations do is they boost up to give a little bit of that compound that you’re trying to develop an immune response to i.e. the infantry and you’re trying to boost that up. So you’re trying to keep basically this infantry that’s hanging out, that’s waiting—that’s waiting for that critter to come in. The problem is when you boost up that infantry more, more, more, more, more, more, well, there’s collateral damage that can happen like allergies and other issues on the immune side if you continue to boost it up too high. And that’s why one of the big trade-offs that has happened with a lot of vaccinations over the years is a lot allergies, there’s a lot of ADD, there’s a lot of other parts, a lot of symptoms that can happen just because that a part of the immune system is so over stimulated. And when we dig to some of these bacillus spores, right? That can help knock down the TH2 by boosting up the TH1. Think of it as a seesaw as one side goes up, one goes down. So when you boost that TH2 up so high, you’re basically decreasing that cycotoxic, those Navy SEALs, those Army Rangers, right, that Delta force, right, that were lowering that. So by knocking that seesaw down on the TH2, we do it by boosting up the TH1 and those bacillus force can be super helpful at doing that.
Evan Brand: Yup. And medicinal mushrooms, too. We can stack mushrooms on this.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.
Evan Brand: …with these and we can help modulate TH1. So—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We can totally do that.
Evan Brand: We got a couple questions. We have one about food combinations, we have one about infrared sauna. Here’s one from Tessa that’s on-topic about probiotics. “Is it good—is it good to take with digestive enzymes?” I guess you’re saying, “Is it good to take digestive enzymes and probiotics together?” My answer would be no. Generally, just because the stomach acid is likely going to kill those. Now even if you are taking a super high professional grade formula like Justin and I are using with you, still, we don’t want to try out a breakdown that technology. If we can preserve those bacteria and get that to the colon, where it’s really gonna do the good thing, I would take your probiotics before you go to bed. Because there’s no competition for stomach acid at that time.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. Yup. So I think taking up probiotics in the morning when you get up first thing or before you go to bed at the very end. Take your enzymes with food typically you can do enzymes before meal, too.
Evan Brand: Uh-hmm.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhm—again, but typically, with the meals also fine as well. And regarding uhm—did you ask about food combining, yet?
Evan Brand: Well, I didn’t read the question yet. I just said best food combinations. Once you can’t go wrong with like meat and salad.
Justin M: Yeah. It’s typically meat and non-starchy. Meat and non-starchy vegetables, chicken and broccoli. Those kind of things. Typically, fruit by themselves. Again, that may cause blood sugar stuff. So, again, I typically only deal with food combining stuff where maybe starch and fruit are eaten a little bit away from things if there’s a lot of digestive issues. And if there’s a lot of like fructose malabsorption, when you really can’t digest much fruit either, fruits gone.
Evan Brand: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And they may not be able to tolerate much starch. And again, some of these changes when you go lower FODMAP, too. When you go lower FODMAP fruit or lower FODMAP starch that may get better. And if you also up the HCl and the enzymes, some of those symptoms that you may see a relief from when you food combined correctly, right? You may not need that.
Evan Brand: Yup, well said. There were two other things we wanted to mention about the TH1, TH2 system. One, you mentioned like ADD or you know, some type of developmental problems like autistic children, they could have an issue with—with their TH1, TH2 balance. So this is where the spore biotics can come in to the equation and fix it and then also food sensitivities. Now a lot of the stuff gets better, too. You know Justin and I talk so much about parasites things like H. pylori infections, bacterial infections that are suppressing stomach acid. So food intolerances are typically related to the gut, but also, we found that this whole immune system thing can also be a factor and just by getting more beneficial bacteria and the right strains as well, all the sudden food sensitivities go away and you can start adding stuff back in that you used to not be able to tolerate.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Some of that just because there is a little bit of peanut oil sometimes in some of the vaccinations as a preservative and uhm—there’s also uhm—some proteins in there. So a lot of peanuts, you know, peanuts the last 20 years has been a huge one. I mean you can’t even take a lot of times peanuts into a regular elementary school.
Evan Brand: I know. It’s crazy.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So I think that’s part of it. I there’s a lot of theories that are out there saying that. So, I mean, may not be super hard evidence on it, but we know that the amount of vaccines have, you know, triple, quadruple over the last 20 years since 91 really—1991. That—that could be a driving factor. That would make sense, for sure.
Evan Brand: Yeah. I was glad uh—Eric Berg. He put out a video about vaccines. Did you happen to see that one?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: No, I didn’t.
Evan Brand: He has a good video. Look it up when you got time. But it was a good video. He was just like, “What’s my take? People asked me.” He’s like, I don’t like him.” And he’s got full list of all the different things that are inside of those and then plus he talks about all the different things that were deemed safe by the FDA like DES that all those women were taking and then you have all these different birth issues—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Thalidomide—with the—with the kids with uh very short arms.
Evan Brand: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. And again, on the vaccine, though, too, if you look at—there’s a big study that was done. I think in 2014. But they looked at kinda vaccine dosages across, you know, how many dosage, or how many individual vaccines across all the countries. And I think it was a lot of the Scandinavian countries that had 75% less vaccinations and better health— better overall health.
Evan Brand: Right.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So I mean, I think just kinda keeping in mind that there may be some benefits from vaccines, but it’s not health never comes from a needle. Not just because you get a vaccine, it does not replace sleep and nutrition and hydration and obviously, a cleaner environment, too, which is huge, right? Plumbing and those kinda things make a massive difference when it comes to infectious disease. But these countries show that you know, much less vaccines dosage-wise, huge difference. I mean they were much— you know, far beyond us health-wise.
Evan Brand: Yup. So if you can’t go back in time and change how you were vaccinated as a kid, this could also give you inspiration about how you approach adult vaccines. Coz now I’ve got a lot of clients I know you do, too that are approaching us and asking us about shingles vaccines that the doctors are really pushing hard for people over age 60. And then also the flu vaccines, which I’ve had people who get the flu after they got the flu vaccine.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. It’s a live attenuated virus. You look on the vaccine inserts, it’s 20% chance of having flu-like symptoms because of the vaccine. It’s on the insert. I mean this isn’t even controversial stuff, unless you actually go in there and ask for the vaccine insert like I have. And then you just_ the side effects and you say, “Hey, look here’s a side effect right there. And it’s I mean, chills, malaise, headaches, you know, achy, tired—that sounds like the flu to me. What do you think?
Evan Brand: It is. I mean, well, it is the flu. And the issue, too, with the CDC is that when they’re making those flu vaccines, they’re only coming up with certain strains, right? So if there’s another strain outside of the one you got vaccinated for, you’ll still get the flu that year and still feel terrible.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: Plus, you’ve got the aluminum and what other preservatives or things in there that are activating that virus for your or—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right. Totally. So kinda the idea is when the vaccination side is your manipulating your infantry, right? You’re boosting up, you’re getting a special reserve of that infantry that’s gonna be specially trained for that one little critter that comes into your body, which you know, definitely has uhm—some use for. Now, my philosophy is let’s just get your immune system so freaking strong.
Evan Brand: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Let’s get all these infantry guys lifting weights and— and you know, rock-solid with the nutrition and diet, so then they’re so ready to go. They’re gonna just plow through any critters and that’s kinda what we’re talking about with all the diet, lifestyle, the nutritional support, uhm—the nutrients to up regulate the immune system, the probiotics like mega spore biotics is one that we use. We’ll put a link below for the link here, my store for that. If you wanna see that. It’s the one that I use. It’s a bacillus clausii, subtilis and coagulans strain that can help balance that TH2, drop it out, pop the TH1—that’s great. Uh—also, medicinal mushrooms like __and other herbs, too. Astragalus,__—
Evan Brand: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Andrographis, uhm—silver, vitamin D, of course, glutathione. These are all great immune modulators so we can really get that infantry boosted up and stronger, right?
Evan Brand: Yup. Perfect. Rachel, nice to see you. She’s got a question, “My husband was regular before we went Paleo / Primal, but since about two years, he’s slower, no longer pooping daily, we eat lots of veggies, he’s not a stress personality type. Any advice to improve? Justin, what do you think?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, off the bat, very simple. I would look at just increasing a little bit more starch, little bitt of sweet potato that may shift things, number one. Uh—n number two, make sure the veggies are cooked if you’re doing this more raw stuff, and that’s causing him to backup, do a little bit more cooked, steamed, sautéed— that’s number two. Number three, adding some enzymes and HCl. Uhm— and then number three, get your gut looked at. If there’s still issues with maybe dysbiosis. What happens is sometimes that starch can help feed some of that beneficial bacteria and that gets drop-down when the starch goes down. So pop it up a little bit of sweet potato, plantains, squash, may give that good bacteria a little pop. Uh— but in the meantime, it’s just as a palliative. Uhm— not pooping daily, not passing 12 inches of stool daily is not good. You get something called autointoxication where you start to reabsorb a lot of the toxins in your stool. So a little bit of magnesium citrate daily to keep those bowels moving and then taper off uhm— down the road. You know, give yourself a few weeks to kinda make those changes and see if you can be regular on your own.
Evan Brand: Rachel, I believe you’ve got your stool test back from— from me. Uh so look on there, too. Uh—you know, one thing that I would suggest, too, get your husband a stool test and look at the beta glucuronidase enzyme like Justin is talking about with autointoxication piece. We can measure that with the enzyme and we can fix it. Milk thistle and supporting the liver and getting rid of gut bugs but you know, if there’s H. pylori or parasites or other bacterial infections that he could have, you guys could be passing things back and forth. The infections could be slowing down the motility. I just put out a podcast with this guy, Ken Brown, who’s a gastroenterologist and he was teaching me more about methane and how certain species of these uh— bacteria during SIBO cases are actually slowing the bowel transit time. So, literally, bacterial overgrowth could just be the culprit due to the methane production. And of course, he’s selling his supplement to reduce methane but if you just fix the SIBO, that will also get your bowels more regular. So I hope that helps.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Love it. Very cool. Well, anything else you want to add about uhm— spore based probiotics?
Evan Brand: I think it’s something that should be in everybody’s toolbox. I don’t know if it’s the silver bullet. I don’t know if it’s the—you know, a lot of people find something that helps them, so then it’s like this is the only thing you can use out there. I still think there’s other benefits to other probiotics that we use, but I do think it should be in everyone’s toolbox and they should at least consider looking at it and potentially using it. Could you just randomly go and take it if you’ve got a bunch of symptoms? What’s your take? I’ve had so many people take probiotics so willy-nilly and they feel worse. So I really think it’s important to get tested first before you spend your money on this.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I find that’s— it’s one of those things where it is other deeper issues there. It’s not gonna be a root causal thing, right? There’s too many other things going on in motion. The more other things are happening in motion, and they aren’t stopped or they aren’t addressed, that it may help a little bit, but it may make no difference at all. So I always say get the low hanging fruit under control and then if you want to add it, then great. If you want to work with a functional medicine provider like us that kind of get things lined up for you, make sure everything’s in order, and then add it in. Some patients I see, it really doesn’t change anything; Some patients, it makes it a little difference; some patients, it makes a huge difference. But we’re not ever hanging your hat on one thing, but sometimes one thing can make a big difference but we never expect to. So then we’re always pleasantly surprised if we get one of those great cases.
Evan Brand: Yup. Well said. Well, I’d say, before we just become a rambling man, we can wrap it up. I think this was a helpful episode for people. Add it to your toolbox, do a little bit of research. I think we may have done other shows. I’m sure we hit on probiotics all the time, but—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think so.
Evan Brand: But if you’ve got, if you’ve got people in your family that have issues maybe they just won’t change the diet, they could potentially get benefit. Maybe if you’re looking for that one thing to try to get someone started into this field of functional medicine, maybe that spore probiotic is the first step. And then maybe that excites them and that encourages them to pursue the diet, the lifestyle, the sleep, the stress, the infections, the testing and all that. If that’s the catalyst, then that’s awesome.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. How we talk about any supplement is in kind of context of a whole program. Like we’re doing all these different things, we’re addressing all these things and then this is another maybe piece that we plug into. We’re not saying, “Oh, we plug this piece into someone who doesn’t—who’s not doing a darn thing.” We’re plugging it into a program.
Evan Brand: Yeah.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Where everything is being looked at. So that’s just kind of our context. S if you’re one of these people that aren’t on a program or aren’t doing anything diet or lifestyle wise that’s really healthy and then you think it’s gonna be that magic bullet, just want to make sure we set your expectations accordingly. And just, you know, don’t forget that majority of antibiotics aren’t just true antibiotic prescriptions if they are in the food supply. So being more organic and eating healthy animal products healthy fats, that’s gonna be helpful so you won’t get that antibiotic exposure which will throw off your gut. And healthy gut bacteria, it produces nutrition, right? Uhm— good bacteria eats, poop and poop nutrition. Bad bacteria eats nutrition and poop. In other words, back it up. Good bacteria provides nutrients in your body just like I mentioned with the spores and the vitamin C which then helps with vitamin K which then helps with vitamin D, of course, and healthy bones, too. But it also—the bad stuff produces a whole bunch of crappy toxins. LPS, lithocholic acid, etc. These things help open the gut lining, make your gut a little bit more leaky which then gets that TH2 immune system overreacting because you got all these undigested food particles that you start developing an immune response to. Not so good. That really gets your TH2 now even more jacked up.
Evan Brand: Yup. Well said. We have one question from Neil. He said, “Do you think lectins are an issue?” Some are saying lectins are real problem, other say beans and legumes are one of the common factors of the blue zone areas. The blue zone, for people listening, that’s like the people that are living to 9000+ years old. They are eating a lot of beans and such. “Love the podcasting.” Thanks for the feedback, Neil. Justin and I when we talk about grains, for example, like with rice pressure cookers, the way to do it. If I do any organic white rice, it’s typically like a treat for me. I put it in the pressure cooker I tend to feel much, much, much better. But beans, I don’t really do beans. Justin, what’s your take?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’ll do beans every now. Uhm—but like maybe once a month, but it’s all about context. Let me give you, for instance. “Evan, our massage is good for you.
Evan Brand: (laughs) I would say yes.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, great. Our massage is good for you. Do they feel good when you have a really bad sunburn?
Evan Brand: Oh, not really.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: No. Well, think of your gut as like a sunburn. Like your gut, it’s all irritated and inflamed with critters. So the more sunburn and the more intense that sunburn is, the more you may not be able to handle things that have lectins or these gut-irritating compounds in them. So the sunburn gets better, you can handle that nice massage. Your gut gets better and healthier and more infection-free and more good bacteria build backup. Could you tolerate a little bit of uh—legumes here and there? Yeah, more than likely. Some may not, right? There’s not a be-all end-all thing but some may. So it’s all about the context. Typically, the less inflamed you are, the better ability you have to adapt to a stressor like lectins, for instance.
Evan Brand: Yes. So now I’m gonna say the guys name because I don’t want to give them anymore—uh—anymore press he deserves. But there’s a lot of anti-lectin people out there—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.
Evan Brand: And it’s just like, to me, it’s a sales pitch. It’s probably gonna sell a lot of books coz it’s like, “Oh, my God! Plants are bad for you.” And then I had people emailing like, “I might as well just starve to death. I can’t eat this, I can’t eat that. I might as well starve to death.” And I just—I’m not a fan of any—I’m not a fan of promoting things that instill fear in people. I agree with your analogy. I miss your analogies, by the way. That was a good one.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That was a good one, right?
Evan Brand: Did you come up with that right on the spot?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Off-the-cuff, man. It’s how my brain thinks. If I can’t create that analogy, if I can’t wrap my head around it, I can’t expect, too, either.
Evan Brand: Well, that was a good one. And so back to my point. I don’t want to instill fear upon people. I agree with your—your strategy and your analogy. Lectins— sure, if you did beans and rice every day, maybe you could have some issues. But if you’re infection-free, your adrenals are healthy, you’re going to sleep on time, you’ve got good relationships, you like your job, you like your boss, you’ve got a great spouse, like you could probably do more lectins, more rice, more beans whatever. And maybe you could get away with it and feel okay.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. If it was in your 80-10 or 80-20 or 90-10, yeah, you know, it’s part of your 10 or 20, you probably would be okay, borrowing all the things you said.
Evan Brand: Yup. I’m sure we can ramble on about that point. That was a great question, though. Uh—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And then, also, too, certain foods and have more lectins. Of course, grains are going to be the bigger offender, right? And then you know, you have your legumes, right? Your beans or lentils, but you know, just soaking them has a huge reduction in getting those lectins down. And even vegetables that do, just cooking them can have a huge effect on reducing some of them. So a lot of times, it’s not just the sheer amount. It’s well, how can you prepare to reduce those lectins as well.
Evan Brand: Yup. The pressure cooker for me has been a game changer for the rice.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And just the Paleo template or autoimmune template is a start. I think has probably the best effect at reducing most of those right there, off the bat.
Evan Brand: Yup. Tessa had a question. “My brother has celiac disease. Are probiotics a good idea in his case?
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, you—you’d wanna really do a bunch of things, but would probiotics be a part of that plan? Yeah, absolutely. You do a six-hour protocol with this. You’d remove the bad foods. You replace enzymes, acids. You would repair the gut lining and the adrenals and the hormone systems. You remove the infections. You retest or you repopulate healthy probiotics, then you retest.
Evan Brand: Yeah, I agree. Celiac is quite a bit—celiac is the manifestation, but there’s probably 5-6-7 puzzle pieces that have to be laid out.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.
Evan Brand: Probiotics maybe 5% of the equation, it may be 15%, who knows until we—
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. And if you add in some good probiotics, like in my line Probio Flora or something like that. Would that be helpful? Yes. But if he did it in conjunction with drinking his wheat beer and continuing to eat grains all day, it may be like using—it may be like using a beautiful golden nail on some rotten wood. It’s just like, “Argh, it’s not enough.”
Evan Brand: Right. You got to go deeper. Even the diet— we’ve had celiac clients and patients that come to us where even the diet is not enough because it got infections that are tearing apart that gut lining, creating that leaky gut situation and they’re reacting to everything. So even the Paleo or a gluten-free diet may not be enough. And usually it’s not. That’s why we do what we do.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Bingo. Love it, man. Hey, let’s chat again real soon. We got information coming up for our listeners. Have a great rest of the week, Evan.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And if you like the audio quality, guys, give us the thumbs up. We’re making some tweaks, we’re making some changes. Give us a share. Sharing is caring. We appreciate it. Leave a comment below. We wanna know what you think about. Give us feedback. You drive kinda what we want to talk about next and we’ll answer those questions to you, too.
Evan Brand: Yeah. Don’t be a lurker. Give us some comments. Your comments are our oxygen.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. I don’t want you creeping in those YouTube post. We want you out there kinda getting some good info. We appreciate it.
Evan Brand: Alright. Take care.
Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Evan, take care, man. Bye.